Feeling the Fear
We’ve kept you waiting for this (at least, if you follow our Twitter account), but it’s worth it. An alert reader sent it to us last night, and it’s NOT one of our always-popular spoofs. To the best of our knowledge it’s 100% genuine.
That’s right – the latest desperate plea for cash from the No camp is a chain letter.
(We’ve redacted some details, but they’re present on the original version sent to us.)
It’s difficult to decide what our favourite bit is, although if you were to push us we’d probably plump for the fact that the identification code for bank donations is “Haggis”. We’re intrigued, too, to note that the size of the alleged Yes Scotland “war chest” has leapt from £7m to £10m in the space of a fortnight.
The insight the letter gives into what the real state of mind is within the No camp, though, is revealing and will be massively heartening to anyone on the Yes side. It seems they really are as frightened as we thought.
the side that spends most money usually wins
My, my. “You can divorce but you can’t remarry”
Bollox!
Does Elizabeth Taylor not knock THAT out the ring…?
Rev. do hope you don’t add this to your list of worthy fundraisers.
That last line is a belter too.
I have a cousin who divorced his wife and then re-married her a few years later.
I should have told him it was impossible!
He did go on to divorce her again but that’s another story 🙂
I wonder how they’re going to persuade the 1 million swing voters we are better together. Scaremongering?
I didn’t really see anything there that’s unduly concerning. When all is said and done, I’d still rather be in a position of carrying a 15% lead in the polls just a few short months from the vote, as opposed to a 15% deficit!
“You can divorce but you can’t remarry!”
Somebody should have told Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton…
Note the continuation of the lie that this is an SNP campaign.
Note also the lie that Darling is leading the No campaign well. I’m less concerned about that one – in WWII the Allies didn’t support removal of an incompetent leader of their enemies and neither should we.
Divorce? remarry? Or staying in a loveless marriage-a sham marriage.
You can just feel the fear there. It quite palpable.
I can’t wait for the day I’m no longer forced to witness the undignified sight and sound of Westminster’s neverending wailing, and my compatriots’ inferiority complex.
If I had an income the size of Scotland the last thing on my mind would be getting remarried!
🙂
I think , after listening to Brian’s Big Debate , Better Together will have to do more than send chain letters en mass !
This was a great debate ! I was standing cheering in my kitchen ! Dennis Canavan and Alyn Smith were fantastic , Dennis even more so , having a go at LORD J Purvis ! Well done to the yes people in the audience . They were fantastic too ! I must also say Brian Taylor was very fair too . Great debate !
I know that the Beeb will slip something horrid in , maybe this afternoon , but hey enjoy these moments while you can and maybe some Dk,s were listening and it could have changed some minds !
@mogabee says:
My, my. “You can divorce but you can’t remarry”
Does Elizabeth Taylor not knock THAT out the ring…?
They got that bit wrong another way too …
1707 was a forced marriage.
We didn’t have a vote, and if we had been able to vote we would have voted to remain independent.
So on 18th September 2014, the YES vote will trigger an “annulment“.
Is domate a freudian conflation of donate and dominate?
Check the date: Valentines day.
April fools would have been more appropriate for this shower.
Pity Elizabeth Taylor is not here to query the honesty of the signing off!
Perhaps Conservative Friends of the Union could chip in a groat or two? As for the £10m claim, it is Better Together and numbers are not their thing. (Does dear Danny Alexander do that side of things?)
Hahahaha… It’s all just so… cheesey. ‘Foot soldier’, ‘haggis’, ‘multiplier effect’ , oh Lordy… 🙂
Love the mistake in asking to ‘DOMATE’!
Is this a Freudian slip in their wish to ‘dominate’ Scotland?
Also the part about “voluntary donations” is odd.
I mean they’re all voluntary…unless they’re suggesting that YES campaign is “forcing” people to give money?
Was not aware that old Norman Tebbit was on the campaign trail either. “On yer bike!”
Why don’t they just get that BetterTogether oil trader bloke who paid Arkan the Serb war criminal a million quid to fix something, again? He can’t be tapped out surely. It”s same mega rich Tory boy that threatened people with legal action for actually reporting his business “practices”
This might be why there is such concern about the amount Wings has raised. I also wondered, after someone on Twitter mentioned people donating here would detract from the Yes campaign, whether the Yes campaign might actually be sitting on pretty large funds?
Because far from detracting, I’ve chucked a little into Wings and other fundraisers, but massively more to the Yes campaign itself via monthy DDs. And I’m sure many others on here contribute that way too. If Wings can raise so much in a day, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s as an alternative to the official yes campaign – it may just be complimentary.
Don’t ya just love the smell of Unionist fear of a morning?
Medals in sport are governed by three things – money, pool of talent, and a home crowd, so in similar vein how in heavens name can BT turn it around at this late stage by only having the option to increase the first !
Thanks Rev
In view of the cut off period, it reminded me to send more cash to YES TO-DAY now I have been paid.
Alistair Darling, you are the weakest link. G’bye.
This just confirms the palpable sense of fear I detected at the Better Together Rutherglen and Cambuslang (there’s not enough of them to have one for each town!) launch day a couple of Saturdays ago that I gatecrashed.
I’ll remind you all of the quote of the day (from Rob Shorthouse):
“We don’t have the foot-soldiers yet.”
🙂 Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
There are a few folk in Nigeria who would appreciate having the account number in that second letter!
I would suggest that there is more of an urgent
need for Better Together to explain to the electorate
what the positives of the Union are.
However, given the length of time they’ve spent
lying and scaremongering it doesn’t take a genius
to work ot that even they don’t have any ‘positive case’.
‘Just give us your money anyway…’
Can someone take Better Together to court?
@Flower of Scotland –
Heard it, and agree. Good stuff. Denis was on fine form.
They say the people of Scotland choosing to control their own affairs would be “appalling” – they really don’t have any belief in themselves or those around them.
@ alexicon – probably by trying to nobble ClearChannel’s UK directors, I suspect they have a fairly extensive dirty tricks book.
I thought BT were claiming Yes was broke just a month back. They really are shifty slidey things aren’t they?
The thing is, what have they spent their £3m on? The seem to operate from a small office with a few people who generate press releases which the MSM including the BBC healine for free (I assume they do it for free).
If Yes Scotland really have raised a bucket of cash (£10m seems rather a lot though) and are going to blitz us, well ….:) Yah Beauty!
After reading that I now have a full blown fear erection.
CC 15%?
I think it’s nearer 10% my friend.
The more important point though is you should ask yourself this question.
would you rather be 10% in front, but the trend being with the other side?
I think a few recent polls (apart from the silly ones in P&J etc) shows an average 3% rise for ‘Yes’ and a 3% drop for ‘No’
even if it was a 1% drop for No and the same rise for Yes, we would see yes catch up in 5 months.
There’s 7 months to go bud…squeaky bum time for your side me thinks 🙂
@Calgacus MacAndrews
Spot on! Was thinking that!
Ah, this day just keeps getting better. Radio on in the car this morning, Gordon Matheson getting ripped to bits on GMS over GCC withdrawing from COSLA and being totally unwilling to say how much it would save the council to do so, merely repeating the mantra that it’s the fault of the Scottish Government that GCC get less money. Didn’t even answer the question of did he think they would get more from government by negotiating directly. He was squirming like a trout hauled out of the water still wondering what was going on. Decidedly uncomfortable for wee Mr Matheson, but lovely cheerful listening for the likes of me.
Now it’s a Better Together chain letter which, as you say, appears to be genuine.
O/T – has anyone else got a feeling that BBC Scotland political interviewing has taken a very recent, possibly false but all the same, swing towards something that looks like impartiality? The questioning of Matheson this morning was reasonably robust, as was the treatment of the Shadow Finance Minister waffling on about Standard Life last night when he tried to lay uncertainty on currency on the Yes campaign; and the person interviewing him flatly replied with ‘well, isn’t it you causing currency uncertainty with your refusal to discuss a currency deal?’
BBC Scotland employees preparing for a future SBC deal?
Oh, I know the BBC website and some of their news announcing is still excreable unionist biased tripe, but GMS and the evening Drivetime programme are listened to more than any other current affairs show; I think perhaps some, if not all, BBC editorial staff are starting to realise that simply saying they aren’t biased isn’t fooling anyone anymore; they’ve got to show it.
This must be what BT call ‘bayoneting the wounded’.
They really are utterly obsessed by the SNP aren’t they? The talk is of the SNP winning the referendum. The obligatory mention of Salmond as well. No mention of the wider independence movement at all; Labour for Independence, RIC, Greens, SSP, Business for Scotland etc.
@HandandShrimp
What have BT spent their money on? Well £100,000 of it a year goes on Rob Shorthouse for a start. Think gravy trains…
What they do not point out is the unlimited amount of money Westminster is pouring in at all levels to prevent Scottish democracy, and get this, we are helping to fund it via our taxes. Likewise for the poisonous BBC via it’s licence fee, which they only outlay a modest portion to Scotland.Where does the balance go?, likely to the BBC anti democracy brigade.
BT get fecked, we are made to pay, without being asked. So do not grumble about your funding, it is disingenuous to the extreme.
THUMP! CRASH! BANG! WALLOP! 😉
Don’t worry folks it’s just me falling down and rolling about on the floor. Man my sides are aching after reading that. I know you said you believed this to be the genuine article Stu, but come on now aren’t you just a tinsy wincy wee bit suspicious that it is really just an amazing spoof? 🙂
What on earth is that last line all about?
“you can divirce but you can’t re-marry”
Has some new marriage law been introduced by Westminster that we don’t know about?
Is this another example of Westminster covertly controlling all our lives?
Will this lead to thousands of re-married couples now being dragged through the courts for breaking this “new” Westminster marriage law?
Isn’t it nice to see that this bunch of non entity numpties still regard the S.N.P. as the opposition to the NO camp. I wonder what the Greens, S.S.P., Solidarity, Labour for Independence, Women for Independence, Dogs for Independence etc feel about that. 🙂
They should just take their £3M and re-invest it in Indiegogo a few times. Apparently that’s how you increase campaign funds.
I love the bit about the big advantage of he SNP being in government and having two lottery winners.
I had no idea that was considered to be a huge advantage against the UK government, the 3 major political parties, the civil services, the whole media and big business.
Reminds me of the old joke about two Scotmen challenging four locals in an English bar to a fight after an argument. One of the Englishmen says the sides are a bit uneven so one of the Scotsmen offers to wait until they can get another couple of locals.
@Patrick Roden
“I think it’s nearer 10% my friend.”
The polls I’ve seen have all been around 15% to be fair, maybe I haven’t seen the very latest. I think The Independent had it at 12% when I was on the train the other day.
As for your point about momentum, well, I could be wrong but after the SNP’s awful, shambolic performance over the whole currency issue (and a pretty crap TV debate the other night where Nicola Sturgeon got absolutely *rinsed* from what bits I saw), I’m fully expecting the Indy vote to tank further? Like I say, happy to admit being wrong, but that’s what I reckon likes. 🙂
No reason for them to worry. I’m sure the chaps of Eton can start a whip round to save The English Colony of Scotland!
Stu,
Is Euan McColm still still busy with his DOD attack ( Denial of Donations) on your fund-raiser? Or is he going to write a piece saying he was talking tripe?
National Collective Dundee Launch
Saturday 1st March 19:30 till Late
Free Entry…Donations welcome
Venue : Buskers, 15 Ward Rd DD1 1ND
You can divorce but you can’t remarry!
If an independent Scotland somehow got fed up with governing itself, and went after a similar marriage to what it has now – you know, collect all our tax revenues, exploit our natural resources, make all our major decisions, station dangerous weapons next to oou major centre of population – the suitors would be queuing up!
It’s amazing what Fear does to people. If I had a pound for every time I’ve encountered a No voter on Facebook emptying their bladders over crystal-ball gazing boogeyman threats I’d have pockets deep enough to fund my own side in this campaign, to have Westminster and all Tories forcibly re-located to Narnia (Oz, Cybertron and Middle Earth all declined to participate). Nice to see those in the No campaign aren’t immune either, though. 🙂
And congrats on the fund-raising, guys. WoS may just be the very best weapon we Yes voters have to win this thing.
Marriage? Gunshot wedding more like!
More dishonesty from our “Better Together” partners. It is an unpalatable truth for them that the independent movement spreads further than the SNP’s boundaries, yet still they persist with the fallacy.
@Calgacus MacAndrews,
Well, we certainly can’t go for an annulment on the grounds that the marriage was not consummated, we’ve been well F***ed!
@ Captain Caveman
“The Indie vote to tank.”
It rose by 5%. But then you know that. We are hoping for another leaden intervention by an aging Etonian with his judgement impaired and his car’s engine still running.
Incidentally, do you realise you use pseudo military terms?
When you do it it’s ‘crowdfunding’ but when they do it it’s a desperate plea.
Bit late in the day to be recruiting foot-soldiers, isn’t it? If Darling really was leading the campaign well, surely the masses would have already fallen in behind him.
I wish them well, but really don’t see that they’ll get anything like the response Wings has seen over the last two days – without a chain letter!
Resorting to chain mail? Isn’t that pretty close to breaking the rules? It’s definitely beyond desperate.
What have BitterTigither spent their £3 million quid on? Pies. Not Scotch pies though.
OT
just been deleted from the Vote no to independence FB page for asking questions. Looks like I need another FB Account. Their idea of reasoned debate – ‘dont ask – dont tell’
Should that chain letter not actually be called a Ponzi Scheme?
It will never pay out.
“They really are utterly obsessed by the SNP aren’t they? The talk is of the SNP winning the referendum. The obligatory mention of Salmond as well. No mention of the wider independence movement at all; Labour for Independence, RIC, Greens, SSP, Business for Scotland etc.”
^THIS. I’m utterly sick of pointing out that Salmond and the SNP aren’t the be-all and end-all of the movement. “Obsessive” may not be strong enough a word to describe it. “Monomania”, perhaps?
Perhaps ‘Haggis’ is Blair MacDougall’s nickname, when he’s trying to get on Tebbit’s, er, bike. [shudder]
Cath and others, I don’t want to beat around the bush here, so I’ll come out with it, I know for a fact that Yes Scotland are struggling for money as are the SNP.
They both require funding from us, if you aren’t SNP donate to Yes if you are SNP donate to it.
link to snp.org
link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com
I don’t want to take anything away from this site or the others and I don’t want to say to much on the matter, but please if you can spare anything, donate to these guys as well.
I’ve been told personally by people in the know they both have some amazing stuff lined up for the final run-in, but they need £ to help make these things a reality.
They have talented people, we have the boots on the ground, but in order to get the materials out there and certain eye catching things it requires money. A lot of it. Don’t be taken in by Better Together, there isn’t £7 million, nor is there £10 million.
Have to agree with other commenters. Although I’ve given over the last year to Wings, Bella, Biz for Scotland, Newsnet and National Collective the bulk of my donations have gone to Yes and the SNP. There must be tens of thousands of us doing the same and giving too to groups like Lab for Indy, the Greens and so on. I don’t even feel I’ve started giving. The major issue for the other side is their complete incapacity to understand what kind of people we are. They totally underestimate us. They can’t imagine that many of us are successful and with a bit of spare cash to fund this campaign. We have no intention of being beaten.
Sorry that’s £2.98 million on non Scotch pies plus one BBC licence fee, which is the best value ever if you’re Blair McDougal.
“We will wake up on the 18th September to an appalling and irreversible decision” eh? The decision that they attempted to go to the polls a day early? I’m sure they could go out again on the 18th.
I’d rather they didn’t mind you.
@Captain
The fact that you think Nicola Sturgeon was ‘rinsed’ by Johann Lamont tells us exactly how much faith we should place in your judgement.
Folks, seems good but this kind of stuff uneases me a little. One one hands it’s good they’re scared, on the other I wouldn’t want anything motivating their potential donors and as such I’d want as little publicity for these things as possible. Anyway, I trust the Rev to know what show and what to keep schtum over.
Jason F says:
They say the people of Scotland choosing to control their own affairs would be “appalling” – they really don’t have any belief in themselves or those around them.
Thing is Jason neither do we! 🙂 🙂
I wonder what their plan B is? Maybe instead of David Cameron going to East London to love bomb us or his cabinet of Tories and would-be Tories coming up to Aberdeen to tell us all how much we need the UK’s broad shoulders they should whizz off to Harare for a crash course in the Robert Mugabe school of how to win elections!
Two lottery winners, and many ordinary people, against the might of their millionaire backers and £150-per-plate fundraisers?
Looks like their backers are believing the MSM propaganda and taking their foot of the pedal.
Or they can see the truth and are preparing accordingly.
Is this really for real? Really? Really?
Ecks Friggin Dee.
XD
“*rinsed*”? Is this use of language allowed here?
Chalks
So if the Better Together fund raising letter is genuine it is full of scare stories….no change there then.
This fear of the amount of money YES has in its war chest enjoyably contradicts Severin Carrell’s attempts just back in January to suggest that they were in financial trouble …
Yes Scotland sheds more senior staff as funding doubts re-emerge
link to theguardian.com
Love the opening salvo, send to friends/family/colleagues/enemies.
Good God in heaven!
There is no such thing as Society, only your own relatives, people you are pally with, people you work with and all the “others”, whoooo… Scary!
He who laughs last, laughs longest! With a few months to go I am starting to chuckle.
@ raineach
“the side that spends most money usually wins”
But the Yes campaign has to spend much more on PR to counter the BT side getting free marketing via the BBC, STV, Herald, Scotsman, etc, etc.
Why do they need the money, surely they don’t have to pay the bbc or Scotsman? Maybe Lindsay has asked for a pay increase?
Better Together = We hate Alex Salmond and the SNP.
BT do not have a clue, its not about SNP or Alex Salmond.
Then again try and persuade a unionist otherwise. Its hard, really hard.
BT totally bricking it. Come July it will be game over unless there is a threat of invasion.
I wonder if the Herald and the bulk of MSM are looking at contingency plans if the YES vote prevails?
BBC TV Reporting Scotland at 1.30 had a very fair, leading report on Willie Walsh Of British Airways saying Independence would be positive as far as he was concerned.
Can they be thinking they should reduce the bias level? Time will tell.
Meanwhile I’m sending £25 to Labour for independence. Go for it boys!
“It rose by 5%. But then you know that.”
Eh? I did NOT know that, actually. I’m interested to see where we are in a couple of weeks from now polls-wise.
“Incidentally, do you realise you use pseudo military terms?”
Lol. So you think I’m an MI5 crony or something? I’m about as far from military as it gets.
“The fact that you think Nicola Sturgeon was ‘rinsed’ by Johann Lamont tells us exactly how much faith we should place in your judgement.”
Fair enough, you tell me you were happy with her performance, that’s fine by me. I’m a unionist, but I’m fair – to me it looked awful, but I only saw a few “highlights” which were embarrassing IMO. The SNP are toy town politicians (again IMO).
Toy town politicians in a pretendy wee parliament.
Not for long!
For those WINGERS in Aberdeen, ah kin smell the FASH. lol
Oh jeez, a chain letter. 😀
That’s brilliant.
Eight and a half hours to blow through a total and now other worth causes feelin’ the love. All at the click of a mouse.
BT? A chain letter. 😀
Are the inaccuracies an indication of paranoid self-deception amongst the BT staff, or are they just sneaky, deliberate attempts to mislead? The YES campaign is, repeatedly, referred to as the SNP, and it has ‘the resources of the Scottish Government at its disposal’ – the implication being that of the use of public funds. In contrast, the poor BT campaign ‘is solely funded by voluntary donations’.
What they don’t want to face up to if they’re paranoid, or are trying to obscure if they’re just being deceitful, is that both the Scottish and UK governments provide personal commitment, but the Scottish spokespersons have more appeal and do it better. And if there is misuse of public funds, it’s not by the Scottish Government, otherwise – for certain – we’d have heard about it, so in the absence of evidence the malpractice is hinted in the hope that that has some effect. Moreover, the Union has just been a dull fact of life, with only eccentrics thinking there’s something wonderful about it, which is why BT can’t – unlike YES – raise enthusaism, recruit activists, and receive the donations they want.
I know that Willie Walsh is not every one’s favourite person but c’mon you have to hand it to him today folks. He has just caused an untold number of BBC employees to go rushing for their phones to make emergency calls to their dentists. The amount of gnashing and gritting of teeth today at BBC HQ in London, and subsidiary HQ in Glasgow, must have been phenomenal. I reckon the floors of both HQ’s are now knee deep in broken teeth! 🙂
Damn it put my last post up on the wrong thread…DOH! 🙂
@Michael
Not trying to be petty or anything but some of “us” are far from “successful” yet still somehow manage to make donations where we can. Just sayin’.
So all the Westminster billionaires and their old school cronies aren’t funding BT any more?
Must be spending their money on essential supplies, such as black hair dye to keep Darling’s eyebrows from going grey with all the stress of fighting a losing battle…
Nice to know 🙂
BetterTogether prospective donors should be careful though. If this oddity is followed by a polite a request from members of the Nigerian Royal family to put some of their money temporarily into the no voter’s bank account, it might all be not al be what it first appears to be.
They are even telling you how much to donate I thought a donation amount was made by the donator or am I wrong?
I’m not so sure about £10m(or 7 m). Given the bitters have big donors at their back I would be surprised if they didn’t have a trick or two up their collective sleeves. If it is genuine, I would guess that the password might alter for each recipient as a security measure and a way of potentially identifying moles/whistleblowers.
I notice that they mention Scottish govt spending but ignore UKOK contribution (including that of the partial civil service).
I just can’t think about what they are up to. I can only concentrate on my efforts and make sure it is part of the bigger picture. I have been trying to get my daughter to be interested for some time. She has even noticed the propaganda (her words not mine) and is ready to take a leap towards yes. These small victories add up and I hope will make a difference.
@Captain
I didn’t say I was happy with Nicola’s performance. I wasn’t happy with the format of the programme, which didn’t do NS any favours, but to conclude that Nicola was ‘rinsed’ is risible.
‘The SNP are toy town politicians’
You’re arguing we’re too wee? Incisive, original and acute.
Funded by 2 lottery winners? That’s a bit misleading, husband and wife with one lottery win and a joint £1 Million donation cant exactly count as 2 lottery winners. All the Resources of the Scottish Government at their disposal? Misleading lies, we all know the SNP cannot use one penny of Government resources. Better Together solely funded by individual donations? So are Yes. If you subtract £1 million from the lottery winners, Yes has 3 times as much money despite BT’S Tory donors!!! LOL This has made my day…:)
“on your bike!”
My personal favorite Thatcherism.
The letter may be genuine but the content is full of fear mongering, lies. The amount they claim that YES has is just another scare tactic, only this time, they’re trying to scare themselves.
It’s an old military tactic; what better way for an army to get more soldiers & weapons than to lie to their own government by claiming that the enemy has a bigger army than yours, just before you are about to go to war.
Nevertheless, it’s an interesting development for it clearly reveals that Better Together & presumably the British Government/Establishment believe that the achievement of Scottish independence is a reasonable probability.
Better Togethers obsession with Salmond and the SNP is going to be one of the reasons why they will lose the referendum. They are acting as if they people should have no say at all.
That may work in South east England, where the divine right of politicians still runs strong, but it does not fly in egalitarian Scotland.
Better Together is a Tory funded campaign with the majority of money coming from over the border. Nothing is going to change that.
Derek Bateman has news about canvassing returns from Scotland’s housing estates.
link to derekbateman1.wordpress.com
The Indy vote will tank? it has only went one way and I see no reason for that to change, we are going to win this, S&P have proved my point, Scotland will start off as the 8th richest country on the planet before even kicking a ball, everything that will have to be sorted out after a yes vote will be on the back of this.
What a party we are going to have, not only taking control of our destiny but seeing all the Unionists in Scotland being booted from their positions of power for good, is going to be joyful, Schadenfreude, yes, justice, absolutely and long long overdue.
It’s time to dump the dinosaurs, Vote YES for a brighter future 🙂
@Oneironaut –
Come on, let’s be fair – dem’s big eyebrows on the Darlin’ fella!
@Training Day
“You’re arguing we’re too wee?”
No mate, not at all. Cards on table: I think the SNP has made an utter, utter mess of all this, from currency to the EU; even now two in three Scots would not vote for Independence. If it wasn’t for Wings, I honestly reckon that figure would still be one in four.
None of this is intended to be any poor reflection on Scotland or her people, quite the reverse. In short, I think the SNP are crap.
Anyway, I’m not a Scot so I’m butting out; who cares what I think, I won’t be voting.
Bitter together, better apart.
Sorry just in and haven’t had time to read through everything so apologies if this has already been pointed out.
The headline on the front page in the Herald today is nothing short of a lie.
‘Fears more firms will follow Standard Life threat to quit’.
This is a blatant attempt to scare poeople about losing their jobs.
If we had an independent media they would have been crowing about the report from Standard and Poor.
I am furious.
I should have said that it is a fair bet that the splurge of judiciously timed and coordinated stories across the press cannot come cheap and it is a fair bet that some of their £3m has been spent on journalists and newspapers. Given the parlours state of finances in the newspaper industry free copy and subsidised journalists would be the obvious way to progress.
When I think of the anti democratic efforts of the UKOK govt, Barroso, van Rompuy et al it feels more like A Zimbabwean election rather than a campaign in a supposedly democratic country that went to war in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and elsewhere in support of democracy
edit that should have been “three in four” of course. 😀
To Captain Caveman,
I believe it’s The Scotsman where you will find your comic reading audience is best served.
You may disapprove of the SNP but rather than just throw childish names about, perhaps you could point to a policy they have executed recently which you can quantifiably & academically critique. Or indeed any party’s policies.
For example, the Con/Dems have claimed that the deficit is going down. A quick glance at their own Treasury report from 2013 will demonstrably prove that this is a lie. The net public debt continues to grow & there will be an annual budget deficit until at least 2017. (Their numbers, not mine.)
See; easy when you know how.
Your turn.
@mogabee 1.17, they must hiv heard me taking to PURDY oota the
cover, bit am no hudin it at anybodies heid, ah dont hiv a TV
license, never mind a Shotgun license. Its fur putting the final
coat of base coat on the WINGS Billboard.ya canna whac a Purdy
fur a better finish lol.
“You can divorce but you can’t remarry!”
I know they mean/imply can’t get married to the same person, but a bizarre thing to say, as the normal definition of ‘remarry’ is to marry someone else – which, funnily enough, is what applies to at least one of their high heid yins, Flipper, who was divorced and, er, remarried:
“Darling had a brief previous marriage when young, but has been married to former journalist Margaret McQueen Vaughan since 1986.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
Is it really possible Joanne LaMont could get the better of any debate – even if the content had something going for it the delivery wouldn’t chime with many.
Does anyone know roughly how many declaration signatures Yes Scotland have now? Just curious.
@ G H Graham
The deficit is the amount at which the debt is growing by. While the Debt itself continues to increase, the actual rate at which it increases can reduce. Calling this a deficit plays handy into the smoke and mirrors game.
Quite why we are expected to cheer loudly at the thought of interest on the debt INCREASE reducing is another matter entirely but thats modern politics-economic hoodwinkery for you.
@ G H Graham
You seriously need me to point out the deficiencies of the SNP in the light of the smoking ruins of their White Paper, ink still barely dry – or the shambles of “EU Gate” and subsequent very clear signals from the European Commission?
You’d have to be pretty thick to send out an email like that.
‘Celebrity hairstylist’ Nicky Clarke thinks that Scots who are thinking of voting Yes lack the education to make a sensible choice:
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Well, that’s it for me. Any arguments I had left after Johann said I wasn’t genetically programmed to make politcial decisions have been destroyed in a few seconds by a hairstylist I’ve never heard of. And he must be really brilliant and well-informed on the issues – why else would he have been invited to appear on the programme, and asked about Scottish independence?
@Captain
The SNP may or may not be crap. As people on here get tired of pointing out, though, this is not a referendum to elect the SNP.
It’s about self-determination, democracy and identity, not, in the final analysis, whether we’re a member of a bureacratic monolith or not. Or whether we’ll save thruppence ha’penny here or lose it there.
And it may be the company I keep, but I now know of only one person who is a committed, irretrievable No. No ‘three in four’ against indy that I’ve encountered.
@Training Day
Fair enough. To outsiders like me, the bid for Scots independence is all about the SNP alone, but I realise it isn’t like that for actual Scots. 🙂
The reason project fear fears so much is because they know they are a minority
I thought Scots where Genetically not fit to take such big decisions 🙂
CC 15%?
I think it’s nearer 10% my friend.
6-7% at best.
The BT campaign
they will have a secret bribe treasure chest when all else fails
@Scottish Skier
The Independent had it at 12% only a few days ago, honestly. (I would post a link but not sure if Stu likes that sort of thing and besides, I’m sure you’re well clued up anyway)
Anyway, work beckons.
“SNP winning in September” ? I didn’t realise ‘vote SNP’ was on the ballot paper! If they don’t even know who their real opponents are (the largest grassroots movement in Scottish history) then they ain’t got much chance stopping it!
I spent lunchtime asking my HR manager bud to switch company travel from Virgin to British Airways and just got email saying they will.
So if you’re out there Mr Walsh, thank you so much for supporting Scotland and it just earned BA an eye watering amount of business from an oil co up here in sunny ABZ. Plus am ccing this all around YES voters up here in North East too.
Just a wee O’T here.
For anyone who missed either Ian McWhirter on Newsnight Scotland or Pat Kane on This Week last night you can catch up here.
link to bbc.co.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
Jesus, Caveman, we’ll get our answers on the EU in the coming month. First from the European Parliament laywers at the request of Scottish Labour/Tories MEP’s and if that advice is politically motivated then the Council of Ministers (who are the ones that actually decide on whether someone joins, Commission has fk all to do with it) will take action on this.
I trust you saw people in the Commission distance themselves from Barroso’s comments.
Currency, I agree with you on, they have made a hash of it, BUT in light of RBS’s comments on the matter…..it appears to me that the pressure is now slowly rising back up on Westminster about the currency union.
The SNP have done a great job of running our affairs, could you imagine Labour/Lamont running Holyrood, it doesn’t bare thinking about but as has already been said many times, we are not voting for a political party or individual.
IT’S A REFERENDUM NOT AN ELECTION 🙂
Regardless of anyone’s perceptions of the SNP’s performance, they are still providing a useful function. The BT movement and mainstream media seem to have become so obsessed by them that they’re conveniently ignoring all the other parties also campaigning for the Yes side.
Speaking personally, I don’t agree with Salmond’s stance on certain things such as currency union either.
Still voting Yes though, since it’s not about him, it’s about Scotland.
And no-one has yet given me any compelling (or truthful!) reason to vote No…
I enjoyed the ‘Haggis’ bit too, but surprised it wasn’t ‘Hoots Mon’, ‘Harry Lauder’ or ‘Proudscot’. But there is NO WAY this can be serious. It’s too desperate to be for real.
ronnie
A sight to behold…I’d imagine.:)
@CC-
Do you realise you use pseudo-hairdressing terms? (e.g. ‘rinsed’, ‘highlights’, ‘an utter utter mess’ etc?)
@chalks
I’m still convinced the threat of currency separation is just a bullying bluff anyway.
They have more to lose from it than we do, most importantly for them the possibility of keeping one more string attached to an independent Scotland.
The threat of currency separation reminded me a lot of spoiled schoolboys in a playground shouting: “If you won’t stay in our gang, you’re not getting to play with our toys!”
There’s really no logical reason for them not to allow Scotland to keep the pound.
The real question is, do we actually WANT to keep it?
I was a wee bit confused (and still am (situation normal then)) with the “On your bike” bit at the end of the first section. Was that a rallying call, or just the simple fact they don’t understand the meaning of the phrase?
This is a Referendum. Not an election.
What don’t you understand?
My favourite bit in the chain mail is “Crucially, the SNP has also been funded by two lottery winners,” whilst failing to mention the major contribution to BT of a rich Tory supporter of war criminals. Though the haggis thing is truly bizzare.
Talking of lies before battle, on the eve of Culloden the Duke of Cumberland circulated a letter from the Jacobites indicating that they intended to spare no quarter. However the letter was a forgery, invented by Cumberland to get his own soldiers fired up.
Or what about the Zinoviev Letter, a directive from Moscow to British socialists leaked by the Daily Mail on the eve of the 1924 general election. It was subsequently shown to be a forgery, but it had the intended effect in helping kick Labour out of power.
Hopefully we have none of that sort of nonsense today.
Hey guy’s without the SNP and Alex Salmond all of us would not be here today discussing the upcoming referendum.
Desimond,
A deficit is the negative difference between earnings & expenses. It’s possible to run a deficit without borrowing if there is a positive balance in the account to draw down.
Debt is the balance of assets minus liabilities.
The British are running an annual deficit but since they have no positive cash balance they are also borrowing money to make up the difference.
And since they are unable to eliminate the deficit, the balance of debt continues to grow. The debt will exceed 90% of GDP by 2017 despite the austerity measures.
If an individual ran their finances like this they would be declared insolvent.
Unlike an individual though, the British Government has the capacity to print money but that causes the value of the money to go down.
Comparisons with the Euro, US/Canadian/Australian Dollar going back 15 years or so shows that Pound Sterling has devalued significantly against these major currencies.
It is simply unsustainable which is one of the reasons I will vote for independence to free us from the economic catastrophe that is just around the corner.
Sorry I’m O/T AGAIN! 🙂
Just found this link on twitter, the newest form of travel…BRILLIANT!
whoosh and the UK’s debt jas just been revised, upwards.
(Reuters) – The official measure of Britain’s trillion-pound government debt will rise by more than 100 billion pounds in September, as part of a major revamp of the politically sensitive numbers by the country’s statistics agency.
Some of the changes are due to new European Union statistical rules, which mean the not-for-profit body which operates Britain’s rail network will be classified as a public rather than a private corporation.
But the bulk are an attempt to clean up how Britain’s public accounts have been presented since the financial crisis, which saw the purchase of big stakes in Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group, as well as of over 375 billion pounds of government bonds by the Bank of England.
What else will rise odiferously to the surface?>
Oneironaut – Oh aye, it’s definitely a bullying technique, but slowly the question is starting to be asked, ‘why are you putting this uncertainty onto companies when it is obvious that it is in everyones interests to have this’ add in when you look at it in a bit more detail that the ruk would have some element of control in our borrowing capability thus lowering the risk element of it all (for them) and the decision becomes all the more ridiculous, pure political posturing and they’ve thrown their dummies out the pram because of a rising yes.
I’m not in favour of it, I’d prefer us to tell them to GTF, but I’ll go along with anything if it means we end the political union. Small steps and all that.
peter macbeastie says:
O/T – has anyone else got a feeling that BBC Scotland political interviewing has taken a very recent, possibly false but all the same, swing towards something that looks like impartiality?
Listening to Brian Taylor’s debate this lunchtime, I got a similar feeling. What seems to me to be happening is that those (lamentably few) broadcasters who still have an ounce of professionalism – whether they be Yes, No or Other – are beginning to find their stomachs churning at the heap of shite they’ve been given to spout and are showing signs of kicking back, however faint those signs be.
And I can smell the fear in that BT begging bowl missive above. All the way though they’ve taken their supporters and the entire Scottish nation for granted and treated Scots like idiots. The fruits of that are now being reaped and they’re keeching their breeks. The comforting fact is that they haven’t a clue how to recover, because they haven’t a clue where they went wrong.
Ponzi Politics.
DOMATE 🙂
“Do you realise you use pseudo-hairdressing terms? (e.g. ‘rinsed’, ‘highlights’, ‘an utter utter mess’ etc?)”
So, shady military ‘plant’ one minute, but now demoted to a slightly sinister unionist hairdresser? Man, you’ve just gotta love this place. 😀
gerry parker says:
@Calgacus MacAndrews,
Well, we certainly can’t go for an annulment on the grounds that the marriage was not consummated, we’ve been well F***ed!
So we won’t feel guilty about keeping all the Runrig CDs, and all the oil, and …
@Dick Gaughan
More likely that they’re starting to realise they’re nothing more than propaganda broadcasters for the losing side, and some are starting to get concerned at what will happen to their sales figures in Scotland once independence happens and people realise that they’ve been lied to all this time.
I’ve been wondering when the more profit-minded ones would decide to jump ship and switch sides…
Better Together struggling to raise funds, I like that, it seems more people would be appalled if we after the 18th of September we woke up to a no vote, which thankfully I don’t see happening.
You can divorce but you can’t re-marry, I beg to differ sir, many people have been married then remarried. Where have all the big donors of better Together gone?.
O/T Rev.
Douglas Alexander in the Daily (drivel) Record spewing sentimental guff about WWII (pass the sick bucket) Alexander also claims the SNP are selling Scots short, on every level, its the usual dross from a different Westminster puppet.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
The Record View backs up the tripe, orated by Douglas Alexander, no surprise there then.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
This fear of the amount of money YES has in its war chest enjoyably contradicts Severin Carrell’s attempts just back in January to suggest that they were in financial trouble …
Yeah, but as Chalks said, don’t read too much into either. We’re in a propaganda war, and remember the “PCS set to back yes” story. Probably best not to take anything at face value.
Moreover, the Union has just been a dull fact of life, with only eccentrics thinking there’s something wonderful about it, which is why BT can’t – unlike YES – raise enthusaism, recruit activists, and receive the donations they want.
This is true but then they don’t need footsoldiers anything like the way we do. They have the entire media, and status quo position (even if it isn’t really), the sense of security and nothing much changing. The Yes camp have all the energy and ideas, but ultimately we’re the ones that have to battle through all of that fear, apathy and distrust to have any of them heard at all. Don’t discount just how much a challenge it is when you’re asking people to take a risk on a large change. The default position of most people is no change.
It would be a real mistake to start getting complacent now – there’s still a massive amount to be done.
Hi,
My name is Blair MacDougall, I am the prince of Nigeria’s cousin’s hairdresser. Last Tuesday tragedy struck my home town as Godzilla annihilated downtown Lagos during an epic battle with Mothra. The lawyer of the royal family was crushed by a falling building and now unfortunately the royal funds cannot be accessed because according to African Union rules the dilithium matrix warp drive sprocket doesn’t allow for currency intermix.
We are in needing of someone from United Kingdom to help us release the royal funds of over £9000m. I was discussing this sensitive situation with Alistair Darling Prime Minister of Scotland and he mentioned you might be able to help. To be able to make the funds available we require you send £20,000 and some high quality British pornography. If you would be willing to aid us then we would happily pay a fee of £1m for you help.
Kind Regards,
They need donations for new Pampers
On the plus side, I really doubt BT – with all the media, all 3 Westminster parties, the UK government and civil service, the MoD, the foreign office network, the CBI and big business on side – thought they’d be where they are right now, with polls either static or shifting towards yes. I suspect they thought by now they’d have us battered down to about 17% and Salmond on his knees begging for mercy.
“I trust you saw people in the Commission distance themselves from Barroso’s comments.”
Imagine the picture today was the precise inverse; the EU Commission (and numerous member states) all but actually saying there was NO problem with iScotland joining the EU – and me coming on here talking darkly about people “distancing” themselves etc., that actually there was some real doubt? Sorry, you’d be ripping me to shreds.
I too await the next tranche of advice with interest, but you’ll forgive me if in the meantime, and in the light of what we already know, your presumably thinking this won’t be any problem/no need for UK and/or Spain’s support, or whatever, is grasping at straws.
I’m not sure how the MSM gets away with their selective reporting. Following the crash in 2007 lots of sensible people made provisions for moving their savings around to make use of the bank guarantee scheme.
How would it have been if the main news broadcast on the BBC/ITV had been “millions of savers have removed their savings from RBS/Lloyds (pick any bank) over fears of bank collapse.” The government would have been incandescent with rage and heads would have rolled as this would have caused a run on the bank with disastrous consequences probably.
Whats the difference here with SL making provisions ‘just in case’. I know the BBC are a law unto them self but ITV have abide by the ITC Program Code:
Excerpt from Article 19 Media regulation in the UK:
“Section three of the Programme Code contains very detailed guidance on the requirements of impartiality in broadcasting, particularly in relation to news and current affairs programming. Specifically, impartiality rules must be observed when dealing with matters of political or industrial controversy, or relating to public policy, politics or the affairs of government. The Code seeks to ensure that broadcasters present information accurately and do not use their power unreasonably to influence public opinion or to favour one viewpoint over another when screening programmes dealing with any of these matters.
Care should be taken to ensure that factual reporting is as accurate as possible in all the circumstances. Broadcasters themselves must never “editorialise” and should not use programmes to put forward their own views on issues.”
Slabs hate the SNP with a passion and have for years got their voters to hate them too !
So there is reason behind their madness ! They have to appeal to their voters and the ones that are turning to yes . The Jackie Baillies , Jolo Lamont , etc are going to continue with this theme because they don’t want their supporters to think that there could be a BETTER Labour Party after Independence , and it certainly wouldn’t be them !
Captain Caveman; Nicola Sturgeon’s performance was not one of her better ones. Don’t think that’s in doubt.
Johann Lamont, on the other hand was about as good as she normally is at FMQ’s. That is to say not very. Ms Sturgeon can debate but didn’t really this time out. Ms Lamont can’t debate; that was just another example of why FMQ’s sounds like a rammy; she can’t debate so she talks over people and shouts she’s astonished about everything.
And the key line that came out of her stint on the ‘debate?’ “Scots are not predisposed to making political decisions” or words to that effect. Now, I’m told this in isolation is quoting her out of context but for the life of me I cannot see how context would make that hugely insulting comment about everyone in Scotland look much better.
Our ‘pretendy’ wee Parliament has already proved capable of taking huge decisions and making sensible policies. Or had you not noticed how so many things the Scottish Government suggests are taken up shortly afterwards by the UK Government? Gay marriage? Minimum unit pricing? The latter since dropped by Westminster, but the point remains the same. The reason the marriage bill came in earlier in England? The Scottish Government put it out to consultation and addressed the issues raised. Westminster drove it through. And the strong rumour is that they only dropped minimum alcohol pricing due to political pressure from the drinks industry, whereas the Scottish Government is fighting them through the courts.
@pmcrek –
Brilliant. Utterly convincing. All it needs it a 43-digit phone number and ‘Best Wishes from Almighty God’.
@Peter MacBeastie
To be fair I wasn’t knocking the Scots Parliament at all, merely saying that the calibre and political nous of SNP’s front bench leaves something to be desired, at least to my mind.
As for the achievements you mention, I applaud them all, each and every one.
@G H Graham
Thanks for that but that still doesnt counter that the Government, in their slimy way, can indeed claim the Deficit is going down. The Debt isnt. All smoke and mirrors but you were the one claiming the figures werent actually showing as basically stated.
Drilling down clarifies of course but by keeping it to basic terms, the Govt get away with such silly claims about winning the economic battle despite our reservations.
No biggee, just feared you were giving Unionists a get out there.
@CC-
‘a slightly sinister unionist hairdresser.’
Good stuff. That’s crying out for a ‘what’s his name’ competition.
The unionist campaign is a Tory campaign and has the resources of the UK Government at its disposal.
Captain C
To be fair there are no dark insinuations. A number of very real people in the EU did come out and say “Haud it!” “He is talking pish”
That doesn’t necessarily mean anything per se. The EU can be an internecine place and Barroso has racked up a fair few people who are anti-Barroso during his stint. He also has a track record of over-stepping his remit.
At the end of the day if it is the will of a couple of big players like France and Germany that the EU boundary shall not diminish (and Scotland’s territorial waters take the EU a long way out into the North Atlantic) then Scotland will be in faster than you can say baguette (although I would dearly like Alex to read the small print before signing anything).
Here’s a lighthearted look at what Scots, would want to miss, from the union.
link to theguardian.com
Here’s British Airways boss, Willie Walsh, expecting Scots airports to be flooded by English travellers, due to the cutting of (APD)air passenger duty in an independent Scotland, which surely would lead to a boost in the Scottish economy.
link to theguardian.com
@CC – Actually, Dave Cameron told Bernard Ponsonby that the UK would fully back Scotland’s membership of the EU. And for all Rajoy’s snide comments, I’m fairly sure he’s never once specifically said “we will veto Scottish EU membership”.
Also, do you realise you use pseudo-horticultural terms? “Shady” (as in under a tree), “plant” ( as in a plant”) and “light” (as in the stuff you need for photosynthesis).
@pmcrek –
‘My name is Blair MacDougall, I am the prince of Nigeria’s cousin’s hairdresser.’
I keep going back to that and laughing aloud. It’s the best opening line to a comment I’ve ever seen. In fact, it would make a great opening line for a novel.
‘Slightly Sinister Unionist Hairdresser’ –
Euan McColm (‘You and my comb’ – the handle of another Wings contributor, right?)
Or what about Alf Barnett?
Just wondering if BT saying Yes/SNP war chest £10m is a deliberate ploy to make us all think they are well funded and we will stop donating, only answer I’m afraid is for Yes to come clean and open the books.
This sad story really does typify, Westminster’s attitude towards the weak or poor in society, do we want to ruled by such a cold and uncaring government.
link to independent.co.uk
They have the whole might of the British Empire at their back,every newspaper,every broadcaster,even the mighty George Galloway, yet,like a vagabond sitting in the gutter,they beg for help.
Fairly sure the lottery win donation from Largs to the Yes campaign was voluntary – not aware there was any coersion involved!
Alistair Darling would be ‘Clipper’.
Shame you can’t have titles on here like on a forum. I’d so have ‘Slightly Sinister Unionist Hairdresser’ as mine; I feel it lends the necessary gravitas.
I wish those who reply to ‘Captain Caveman’ would desist. Rev Stu prefers that I do not use the simple correct word for him so I will describe him in a long winded fashion. He says he doesn’t have a vote and implies he is not a Scot. He always writes lies and half truths about matters which are contentious to YES people. And he does it while apparently being ‘nice’ and impervious to criticism. He is just trying to wind up people here; and some of you are rising to his ridiculous bait.
Sinister Unionist Hairdresser –
Jackson Haircurler
(alright, that’s a bit rubbish, but you could see where I was going…)
@ Andy-B, that’s an interesting thing about Walsh and possible boom in Scottish air travel. But then you think, what about HS2, £50 billion high speed rail spur for Heathrow desperately trying to get another runway. So who’s helping to pay for HS2? Scotland and Scots oil. What a farcical mess the UK is.
@CC on polls The Independent
No offence CC but I don’t go by what English papers say (papers are notoriously crap with polls never mind papers from other countries saying what’s happening in Scotland), rather from an analysis of all the poll data. I have a record of all polls there has ever been (I think); all nicely laid out in a spreadsheet and analysed a variety of ways.
Finding trends in data is my day job for which oil majors are keen to employ my skills as a consultant. I’m known amongst my peers for spotting things others just can’t see… I apply these skills to polls as hobby, geeky as that may be. I’ve posted my graphs on here before.
You are of course free to do the same.
Looks to me down to 6-7% gap for Jan-Feb 2014. Was just a smidgen over 20% in late 2012. Your 15% is more late summer 2013.
This would match well with the article above. After all, falling support indicates a struggling campaign.
Cheers,
SS
@a Supporter
Sorry, that isn’t on. I don’t write lies and I don’t like being called a liar. I don’t like being told I’m a troll either. I guess people will make their own minds up about me; Stu’s known me for well over a decade and he knows I am neither a troll or a liar.
“By forwarding the letter to 5 persons, who in turn forward it to, at least, 5 more friends, with each recipient donating £25, it will only need to be forwarded 8 times (with no duplication) to reach 97,656 people.”
The author of the letter is, apparently, not very good at simple arithmetic. In the first instance, the units’ digit must be a ‘5’ not a ‘6’. In the second place, (5 × 5 ×5 × 5 × 5 × 5 × 5 × 5) = 390,625, not 97,656.
Cath says:
Yeah, but as Chalks said, don’t read too much into either. We’re in a propaganda war, and remember the “PCS set to back yes” story. Probably best not to take anything at face value.
I believe that at the actual PCS vote while outright support for YES was not forthcoming there was actually NO support whatsoever for the Better together lot. As I understand it all the delegates either voted for YES or the majority voted for abstention so they couldn’t come out and openly support YES as a union per se but I understand a lot of individual branches do in fact support YES.
Thanks for your post pmcrek. I actually read it with this obscure Nigerian voice running in my head. Now I can’t get shot of it! 🙂
pmcrek
Brilliant 😀
You’d have thought a MacDougall would be self raising.
So given BA’s stance we can expect London’s new airport to be in Kelso ? Oh Boris how we laughed…
chicmac says:
You’d have thought a MacDougall would be self raising.
Nah, self raising is too difficult for him he’s just plain! 🙂
Saw a similar story to this in the Daily (drivel) Record, but it had no link, apparently many Scots are leaving Standard Life assurance in disgust, after they threatened to leave Scotland.
Here the Telegraph see’s it as cybernats bullying Standard Life, typical unionist papers portrayal of Scots who want independence.
link to telegraph.co.uk
Oh no, will the ghost of a murdered 13-year old girl claw my eyes out if I don’t pass on the letter?
a supporter
I think that is a bit harsh. Captain Caveman is a Unionist who lives in England. He argues a pro-Union line but he does so respectfully and with good grace. I don’t have a problem with arguing against the Unionist position because I think our arguments stack up and it is often easier to see that they stack up when in dialogue with someone who is genuinely debating without rancour.
Now Lindsay is trolling and RWhittingon is doing the concern troll thing here whereas over on the Guardian he is an out and out independence basher.
@Captain Caveman
I think some comments here have been a bit ‘over the top’, noting meanwhile how I cunningly combined a military and hairdressing expression.
You can divorce yet continue to live peaceably, each able to be his/her true self.
Doing that.
Cheers guys. 🙂 (lol @ Major, very good sir 😀 )
That said, I will butt out now as although I’m genuinely interested in all of this, at the end of the day it’s not my fight and I have to respect that.
Wish you hadn’t done that major, I now have a vision that I can not get out of my head involving military personnel and hairdressers. 🙂
WEIGHTWATCHERS for INDEPENDENCE
“Not worried about losing the Pounds”.
@Captain Caveman
That’s the (Dunkirk) Spirit!
@Caroline
We’re more than happy to do that.
Unfortunately, our partner in this particular divorce is the passive-aggressive spiteful type who always has to have the last word, who tells horrible stories about you to their friends, starts nasty rumours about you in public, and insists that you can’t keep any of the stuff you used to share if you do divorce them.
Oh well, divorce is better than staying in an unhealthy relationship 🙂
As for Captain Caveman, I don’t really know him.
Though from the conversation so far on here, maybe he should change his name to Sweeney Todd! 😉
@pmcrek, chicmac, Arbroath
You leave that wee flour Blair alone you nasty nats!
Here we have Winston Churchill’s grandson telling us, “independence would be fatal for Scotland.”
link to telegraph.co.uk
But no as fatal as chemical weapons, which his grandfather Winston Churchill used on Russian Bolshevik,s, according to a historian.
link to telegraph.co.uk
X_Sticks says:
You leave that wee flour Blair alone you nasty nats!
Just as well you can spell X_Sticks, unlike me ;), otherwise that flour could well have turned out to be a right flower! 🙂
@MajorB –
No-one’s going to beat your ‘OTT’, it’s the equivalent of Q on a treble-letter-score.
All the hair stuff reminds me of a favourite Les Dawson joke, which I remember sharing with friends in primary five or six, some four decades ago:
‘She had beautiful wavy blonde hair all the way down her back. None on her head. Just all the way down her back.’
best advert iv’e seen for the yes campaign yet,go better together yeez ur dane SWELL… letting everyone know you’re a trailing behind 🙂 🙂 😉
@Grant
‘BT do not have a clue, its not about SNP or Alex Salmond.’
Oh, but they know exactly what they are doing, Grant. They know fine the difference between a referendum and an election; but, by framing the debate as though it is an election campaign, they are expecting to exploit tribal partisan antipathy towards the SNP by equating a Yes vote with support for that party and its leader. Accordingly, they hope, a habitual Labour voter then won’t touch Yes with a bargepole.
Of course, the No cheerleaders in the media willingly cooperate with the deceit.
There are things the Yes campaign, the SNP and Alex Salmond himself can do, to effectively counter this distortion of what the referendum is about. I just want them to hurry up!
@captain caveman.
I thought you said work beckons?
You don’t work for GCHQ do you?
link to dcclothesline.com
@Captain Caveman 2.00pm
You say you only saw bits of the Sturgeon-Lamont show; well, I saw the lot.
It was in no way a debate when they got to the head-to-head, more like a stairheid rammy as has been said so often. It was truly awful. Lamont didn’t answer a single question and kept deviating in amongst all that noise. She didn’t take on the answers she was given to her questions and rambled on ,increasing the decibel level as she went, “astonishing” becoming the battle cry. I’m not surprised it ended up like a brawl. Still, no positive case for staying in the union, so, basically there was nothing to be learned that we didn’t already know.
Nicola really landed on her over the fibs about shipbuilding when she pointed out that JL didn’t know what was going on with Govan shipyard in her own constituency and reminding her that BAE have stated that the warships will be built on the Clyde because there is no alternative.
The only thing we learned was what Lamont thinks of her fellow Scots (and which seems to be the case with folk all the way from the PM to a telly hairdresser), via her comment that Scots “are not genetically programmed to make political decisions..” (she said it no matter how it was spun later). She must be speaking from experience and as someone I know said in a tweet to her, does that mean she is resigning.
Have a look again.
Alistair Carmichael, may be the next Lib/Dem leader, if he can defeat Scottish independence, no wonder he’s trying his hardest to suppress his fellow Scots.
link to newstatesman.com
So does this mean that the Better Together mob are even lying to their own supporters by telling them we have collected £10million. An attempt to get the NO voters to dig deeper into their own pockets, maybe
Calgacus MacAndrews says:
WEIGHTWATCHERS for INDEPENDENCE
“Not worried about losing the Pounds”.
*loud applause*
The Caveman has been posting on here for over a year. He isn’t a troll, just a decent, deluded unionist. 😉
An insight into just how bad a state the UK economy is really in, wealthy areas of England such as Hampshire, (Hart) in need of food for their foodbanks, locals astonished, that neighbours are hungry. But if Cameron and Osborne say we’re on the up then who are we to question the wisdom of the Westminster.
link to theguardian.com
Ah, don’t go CaptainC. It’s good to have some opposing views, as long as it doesn’t turn into a rammy. Otherwise it gets stale. And you’re only saying what a lot of people believe anyway, mainly due to the media. That’s not trolling, and it’s good to be reminded. I feel this place sometimes becomes a bit of a bubble and political bubbles are dangerous!
In fact, I wish more unionists/undecided would get involved on here.
Gerry parker says: “Well, we certainly can’t go for an annulment on the grounds that the marriage was not consummated, we’ve been well F***ed!”
*wins thread!* 😉
In fact, I wish more unionists/undecided would get involved on here.
Yeah, that’s what it’s missing. Maybe Stu could pay for a few people to play devil’s advocate 😉
Juteman says:
The Caveman has been posting on here for over a year. He isn’t a troll, just a decent, deluded unionist. 😉
Trouble is Juteman as I understand it he lives in England and he therefore appears to be relying on the English media and BBC etc for his information concerning our referendum.
As we all know the English media and especially the BBC are skewered in their view of Scottish independence and will print/say anything to make it look like it is not going to happen. We on the other hand know differently! 😉 😉
Like others have said I appreciate that he is a committed unionist and wants to keep the union as it is. At least he does not get “down and dirty” with all the usual nastiness of anti indy comments we have all experienced from other unionists.
Who knows, by the time the referendum is done and dusted CC may actually have moved his position slightly more to our side of the argument. 😉
Excuse me now while I go count the pigs flying past my window! 🙂
@chalks, it’s been a heavy week mate, with Wings, Alan Bissett, LFI, YES Borders and the Glasgow debate, but you’ve convinced me, 100 to YES Scotland a few minutes ago. C’mon folks, it’s hard I know, but there is nothing, nothing, more important than this fight.
The third paragraph in the second letter is appaling.
1. Surely, if the SNP are using Scottish Government resources, then the Tories and LibDems are doing the same, sending ministers to Bread Street etc to preach to us about how we should know better than to want to make decisions for ourselves.
2. They make a big deal about how they rely on voluntary donations – did Salmond torture the lottery doners in his dungeon as St.Andrew’s House until they coughed up or something???
You don’t get more desperate than when you start with such doublethink tactics. BT – you are desperate!
Just in case we all thought Willie Walsh was a one off amongst the aviation industry in supporting Scottish independence folks well guess what we were wrong! 😉
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
George Osborne, and his calculations that ruling out the use of the pound, in February, would have an impact on spring time annual meetings of Scotland’s big financial companies, and ergo force Scotland’s financial industries into the independence debate.
link to blogs.spectator.co.uk
Newsdrive Scotland just after 4pm gave the BA pronouncement full measure and also had Ryan Air adding support for Scottish people to vote as they wished as it would probably be a boost to the industry. Had to check the radio station frequency in the car… to be sure!
In depth review of the news on their programme after 5pm.
Geez!… what else has happened that they don’t want us to know about, oh yes, Standard Poors probable rating for Scotland to be AAA or near as dam it.
@ Andy-B – Typical that the guardian wont allow comments on that Willie Walsh story.
It would make good business sense to have Prestwick as a trans-Atlantic hub.
Also I think it’s good that people are threatening to leave SL as it might make other companies think twice before making similar statements.
Although the SL story has been distorted by the MSM, they had plenty of opportunity to discredit it.
Every time a politician or a member of the public, English or Scots, or any nationality for that matter, determines that the people of Scotland will not get this, or will never be given that, they negate the democratic process.
If that is their aggressive answer to everything and they mean to impose their will, come what may, we might as well not have a Referendum at all and accept Scotland is an annexed province of England – which is how those people see us.
Cath said : I feel this place sometimes becomes a bit of a bubble and political bubbles are dangerous!
Yes, that’s the problem with operating in a political bubble because sometimes it takes just one prick to burst it.
Oh my, that was rude. Sorry.
ironic its british airways
Here’s a laugh from the New Statesman for Friday – Ah nearly pissed masel”
“Why Alistair Carmichael could be the next Lib Dem leader”
link to newstatesman.com
completely O/T but just done a non political yougov questionnaire and at the end you pop out onto a general page where you can take part in sort of open polling, and today the questions are about Angela Merkel who has a rating for the question “Who do you think is a better politician, David Cameron or Angela Merkel?” of 41% versus David Cameron’s 10% (both is on 14%, neither is on 14% and don’t knows are 20%) One presumes that this is mostly respondents from within the UK answering. Tee Hee.
BBC Newsdrive
Douglas Fraser relating the BA and Ryan Air news but saying that the airlines have an agenda(air port taxes)also mixing it with some unsubstantiated rumours of engineering companies maybe making contingency plans etc etc.
Nothing to write home to mother about then.
I was just trying to find out if Margaret Thatcher day got the go ahead in parliament today and discovered it is a private members bill introduced by Conservative MP Peter Bone who is currently being investigated for benefit fraud involving his mother in law’s nursing home bills. Bet Margaret would be proud.
Here we boys and girls
link to blogs.spectator.co.uk
The reason for Osborne speech
@call me dave
Funny when it’s a pro-Independence issues there is always some ‘agenda’ to explain it away (otherwise they’d be pro-UK, right?), but when it’s pro-Union it is all perfectly understandable and they have no self-interested or cynical angle whatsoever.
I was thinking this afternoon that it was 40 years ago to this very day that the path we are travelling on became a reality.
For us oldies it was the UK General Election of 28 February 1974 saw the first of the steps when the SNP returned 7 seats. Dundee East result at 2.24 – turnout was 81% in those days. I remember when I was at a polling station that evening the snow coming down but we had a warm glow inside at the possibility we could gain the seat. I will raise a glass tonight in memory of those no longer with us but helped us on our way.
O/T
Something has been bugging me. I have been reading for sometime that councils are leaving COSLA. This is allegedly something to do with them being unhappy with the financial concord the SNP government struck with that body regarding council tax freeze.
Now I was wondering, if it had something to do with putting their activities out of reach of inquisitive eyes ( I guess the councils that have left are all control by SLAB or their unionist brethren- Aberdeen, now Glasgow). I mean would this make them more likely to hide attempts at gerry-manderring referendum results (postal vote surges, the dead voting etc). I just do not trust the other side one inch. They are fighting for their cosy lifestyle and they will have their back up against the wall.
The Bitter Traitors are playing the underdog tag to try and garner more expenses for themselves.
@Caveman
I reckon you are a shill and your input to this site merely detracts from the sensible and challenging sharing of views and ideas that help support the view that Scotland should be independent. The forthcoming referendum is not an SNP referendum it is the democratic wish of the Scottish people to have a referendum. Perhaps your time would be better spent in your own country trying to create a real democracy. Do I have to remind you of the number of citizens that took to the streets of London to try to stop the Iraq war which nevertheless was still prosecuted. Does it not seriously concern you that rich boys from the playing fields of England are able to do what they like without having a mandate from the people ? If it doesn’t, may I suggest you crawl back into your cave and douse your fire.
Now that the bosses of B.A. and Ryanair have come out in favour of Scottish independence I wonder how the bosses of these airlines, all of whom fly, or about to start flying, to Scottish airports feel about Scottish independence?
U.K. Airlines
B.M.I. Regional
Eastern Airways
Easyjet
FlyBe (Loganair)
Jet2
Virgin Altlantic (Little Red)
Non U.K. Airlines
Aer Arann
Air France
Aer Lingus
Emirates
KLM
Lufthansa
Norwegian
Qatar Airways
S.A.S.
Turkish Airlines
Vueling
Wideroe
Wizz Air
I’m going to chuckle at the idea of Cavey relying on the BBC for his opinions.
Congrats on the recent fundraiser, RevStu – amazing scenes, I think.
Captain Caveman I don’t know what’s the matter with your comments but every time I try to read them all I hear is white noise, Please put your tinfoil helmet back on and try again. hsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
The BT big donors are the greedy and the seedy…the lab & Con friends of the cronyism capitalism thats alive and well and has been since the Thatcher the milk snatcher was in power
O/T Just heard Jackie Bird preview news about Willie Walsh saying independence held no worries for him or BA.
The disappointment and dismay in her voice was unmistakable.
captain Caveman, just saying bud, but I have felt your normal friendliness is missing on this thread.
All of us on wings have watched as the English media have whipped people up into Anti Scottish and Anti Salmond fervour and I feel you have been infected with this bile, to some extent.
The facts are, that most of us feel the gov up here played a blinder with the currency thing, because they refused to be bullied and simply laughed at all the bluster. within a few hours the play by Westminster began to backfire, and it was in a poll a few days later that saw a 6% increase for yes, along with a 5% drop for No.
EU is a re-cycled scare story using the same tired people, again there were u-turns within a few hours from Burrosos office.
Perhaps your problem CC is like most of your countrymen at Westminster, your life seems to be soley focused on how your finances will be effected by the decisions you make.
Up in Scotland an increasing amount of us, want to make our decisions based on what is morally right and are willing to lose out a little bit, if this means we support our more unfortunate countrymen.
We refuse the Tory/Labour Lie, that says that, because we can find a few dozen cases of people who are pulling a fast one or are simply lazy…and on benefits, then we should punish the hundreds or thousands of people who are in genuine need…( while letting the city spivs off Scot free as they participate in tax avoiding schemes.
It’s not about the money for us mate, we are just different from you guys, and have a different set of priorities.
OT but has anyone got details on the UKOK funding effort that has a target of 35,000 with only 8 hours remaining?
The current amount raised at the time of the comment about it on Derek Batemans blog was £0.00.
It must be exiting for Blair McDougal pressing F5 every five minutes, to see how much has been doMated, eh!
Pwhhaaa, ha, ha.
Sorry that target on the last post is £5,000 and not £35,000.
NOT IN MY NAME !
Captain – the “SNP are toy town politicians” – wasn’t Mr Salmond given “Politician of the Year” for 3/4 consecutive years by New Statesman and “Briton of the Year” by the Sunday Times? If that is a toy-town politician your judgement is seriously flawed – but then maybe those august publications are flawed too! Comparing Mr Salmond and Ms Sturgeon to Messrs Cameron, Milliband and Clegg would just be so unfair to those multi-coloured Tories!
Perhaps The Proclaimers could write a song, they said they may re-write the No More song, and then we could get it to No 1 in the charts.
Hmm, BBC six o’clock news just done a piece about Willie Walsh agreeing with Scottish independence funnily enough I didn’t hear a word about Ryanair. I guess one PRO independence company a day is the BBC’s daily limit. 🙂
Wonder if Jackie Bird and co will go further than their London pals and mention Ryanair? 😉
Here we have Britain and Ireland, boosting tourism between each others countries by creating a (CTA)common travel area for non EU visitors, yet Westminster harp on about the difficulty of a CTA between Scotland and the rest of the UK, after independence.
link to irishpost.co.uk
Could be the new Scottish National Anthem.
OT. I was just thinking of all the Scottish songs we could never sing again in the event of a No vote.
Obviously ‘Scotland the brave’ would have to go. So would ‘Flower of Scotland’. Sent who home?.
Any other songs you can think of that would have to go, or have the lyrics changed?
Been thinking about currency union and the scare being pedalled as to who would be “lender of last resort”.
Now I am aware that banks were bailed out depending on where they conducted their business so Scotland would basically be due it’s population share.
Hmmm, I’m not sure that is the case for Scotland since RBS, HBOS and Lloyds TSB, our amin banks are now mostly owned by the UK Government. If they went tits up again do you think Scots would be lining up to bail out the UK gov?
Nah didn’t think so.
A theory. During the first half of the referendum campaign, the BBC were promoting anti-Independence stories. As off today, it’s YesScotland’s turn and the BBC will be emphasising pro-Independence news from now on.
Also, all my pigs have been watered, fed and bedded down for the night ready to fly tomorrow.
Here we have Standard Life Assurance, and their profits rising in Ireland by 33% to over 1 billion Euro’s, it appears, Ireland being an independent country, hasn’t affected profits whatsoever, so why should it be the case if Scotland becomes independent.
link to businesspost.ie
Oh dear gawd!
Richard Baker on the item about BA and talking mince whilst still getting his anti SNP anti Alex Salmond gutter tripe into his 15 seconds of fame!
As thought, (dis) reporting Scotland totally FAILED to mention that Ryanair also support Scottish independence. Well no surprise there then! Nice to see that the good old BBC rule of no more than one good news story for Scottish independence per programme per day is continuing. 🙂
@ captain Caveman
When I point out your unconscious use of military language I’m drawing attention to aggression you’re externalising, animus cloaked in “thoughtful” prose.
@thepnr
Westminster had to go cap in hand and borrow money from the IMF in the 70’s. U$D 5 BILLION. Seems like the BoE wasn’t the Lolr on that occasion ?
Anyone wanting to listen to what was, apparently, an extremely balanced “Brian’s Big Debate” can hear it here.
link to bbc.co.uk
Shock horror, has the EBC in Scotland gone nuts?
Full report on Mr Walsh supporting independence for Scotland.
Bwahahahaha! Derek Bateman has just reported that Dr. John Robertson has been promoted to full professor at the University of the West of Scotland.
I think he’s quite close to retirement age, so this will be a nice feather in his cap.
@Thepnr
The truth is, under the marvellous Westminster financial system, we taxpayers are the lender of last resort.
Labour parasite Richturd Baker says Scotland would gain no benefit from scrapping wastemiddens forced landing tax in Scotland.
What a little ignorant prick.
The whole ethos of the EU is European cooperation. They even cast their eyes upon Ukraine at the very edge of Europe and corrupted by association with Russia. Scotland which stands at the Atlantic gateway to Europe and immensely strategically important in geography with its immense natural resources and its industries and commerce reliant on its highly educated population is a fit with modern Germany ,France and rUK.Scotland is democratic,trusted and has a modern legal system.It is just simply good governance to suggest that Scotland would swiftly gain acceptance in the EU..
As for the Sterling zone it is absurd to suggest that rUK would shoot itself in the foot and collapse Sterling in a strop though if UKIP get into power who knows but that is a story for another day and more than Scotland would be manning the lifeboats.
“So on 18th September 2014, the YES vote will trigger an “annulment“.”
What?
we’ve never in 307 years you know, got it on?
link to youtube.com
ooh er missus. 🙂
“Derek Bateman has just reported that Dr. John Robertson has been promoted to full professor at the University of the West of Scotland.”
Or, Scottish academia giving the twerps that think they own the BBC in Scotland the finger:-)
@Morag
Ahahahha! – fantastic! (by the way, YES Borders are on £3,895!)
@Grouse Beater
Don’t be too harsh. Captain Caveman can’t help it, he is after all, a troglodyte; and apart from the Telegraph crossword, the Home Service and war films with John Mills in them, he has no concept of the outside world.
Here we have a good piece on Britain and the EU, a YouGov survey revealed that, two-thirds of Brits thought that they had no influence or friends in Europe. Brits also thought that the rest of Europe ganged up and bullied them, and that Germany and France were especially hostile towards Britain.
Combine this with the Tory party being split down the middle on the membership of the EU, throw in UKIP, and you have a volatile mix, that could easily see the rest of the UK leave the EU come 2015.
link to dw.de
Are we still doing the refresh page thingy
“There are a few folk in Nigeria who would appreciate having the account number in that second letter!”
Just when you thought everything was going hunky dorey along comes the Royal Mail (privatised) to spoil an otherwise good day.
link to moneysavingexpert.com
Current support for Catalonian independence 55% in favour, Spanish PM Rajoy, claiming that the Catalonian referendum is illegal.
link to euobserver.com
Pressure from Academics for Independence, speaking of which when will AFI get a website set up and start informing jock public?
Would be nice.
@Thepnr
Re AFI and webiste here you go
link to academicsforyes.org
YES Borders just reached £4,000. Just FYI.
Not everybody on their bike is going to vote No.
Bikes for Yes.
@ Major and Morag = Yeeehaaaa Yes Borders reached their target of £4000. I am so so pleased about that.
Cheers Albalha
They really need to raise their Google profile then. No link to this site on the first 5 results pages when searching for “Academics for Independence”.
Academics for Yes though turns up on page one, not surprising then that the MSM never used that title.
“Reminds me of the old joke about two Scotmen challenging four locals in an English bar to a fight after an argument. One of the Englishmen says the sides are a bit uneven so one of the Scotsmen offers to wait until they can get another couple of locals.”
That was actually an advert for bluebell matches.
the big brawny highlander and his wee scrawny sidekick leap up out of the heather in from of a mounted English colonel leading a detachment of soldiers shouting “cumon then” waving their swords,
the colonel looks around at his eleven soldiers and looks the highlanders up and down and says
“oh I say chaps there are two of you and twelve of us it a bit unfair dont you think?
big highlander looks at the opposing soldiers and then looks to his diminutive compatriot and responds
“aye a suppose your richt, you go and get reinforcement we’ll wait richt here.
as a certain person on another site is prone to say
“glad to help”
Yes in the glen struggling….
link to yes2014.net
@john king
as a certain person on another site is prone to say
“glad to help” 🙂 haha
That was the guy that just kept re-pasting the same bollox over and over again. Never actually had anything to say.
Like many that bat for BT, totally useless.
Just listened to Brians Big Debate there… we are winning this folks. 🙂
“What have BitterTigither spent their £3 million quid on Pies?
Aye and all for Blair MacDougal.
“That was the guy that just kept re-pasting the same bollox over and over again. Never actually had anything to say.”
Your are correct sir
the No answers guy
Good for the Catalans, seems they have the same grouping against them, rightwing Government and the Labour Party.
With no legal Referendum backing it makes the 55% Yes all the more impressive.
Hope it doesn’t make ‘us’ look like complete wimps if we vote no.
Just got back, and I happen to have two bottles of Black Isle Blonde (organic) at my side.
Before I make a start, just checking, given the week it has been (yet again), is there any “toasting” happening at 9:00pm ?
😉
Not aware of any “official” toasting that is planned Calgacus but if you do wish to toast someone/something perhaps you might like to consider toasting Willie Walsh and Ryanair. 😉 🙂
“That was the guy that just kept re-pasting the same bollox over and over again. Never actually had anything to say.”
Your are correct sir
the (No) answers guy
@Arbroath 1320 says:
Not aware of any “official” toasting that is planned Calgacus but if you do wish to toast someone/something perhaps you might like to consider toasting Willie Walsh and Ryanair.
Dammit, I should have bought Guinness.
🙂
@Brian Powell says:
Hope it doesn’t make ‘us’ look like complete wimps if we vote no.
If we vote NO, on 19th September the nation (if you can call it that) will have a collective “beamer” that will be visible from Alpha Centauri …
The 9pm toast this evening goes to Wullie Walsh and Michael O’Leary 🙂
@Andy-B
I cancelled my life assurance policy with standard life today,disgusted with this company!
The woman on the phone didnt ask me why i cancelled,i am explaining through letter to follow,but she sighed as if “not another one”.
“on your bike!”
My personal favorite Thatcherism.
Wrong,
It was Norman Tebbitt who said get on your bike.
I guess it should be a wee low flyer then..
I’ve been thinking about this ‘lender of last resort’ issue. I personally think we should just use the pound without the currency union and have been wondering;
If the banks play casino banking with our money and this fails don’t they then deserve to go under? If they are careful with the money (our money) then they won’t go under, ergo no need for a ‘lender of last resort’ – thus Plan B bye bye BOE.
Also I guess the banks will have shareholders to answer to they will also lose out if the banks are gambling.
Black rather than Famous for me
Someone mentioned dogs for independence. Why don’t we make up loads of posters with cute puppies saying ” puppies for independence” and one with kittens for the cat lovers?
Maybe kids will see them and annoy lots of undecided parents into voting yes.
Why am I not running this campaign?
Isn’t there a “Kittehs for Independence” thing on Facebook already?
@ Col 20:04
Unicorns for Independence! 🙂
“So, shady military ‘plant’ one minute, but now demoted to a slightly sinister unionist hairdresser? Man, you’ve just gotta love this place. :D”
You could be both CC 🙂
CC =Crewcut? 😉
@ Calgaus – keeping with the spirit of the 9pm toast, mine will be to those who responded to the campaigns on Love spreads.
“I wish those who reply to ‘Captain Caveman’ would desist.”
Och, I don’t know, it seems balanced to have someone, self-confessed, from the other side, and CC doesn’t seem to have the bitterness that other, sometimes very short-term visitors, exhibit. We can’t become too insular, it’s healthy to have a debate. On top of that, he contributed to the fund-raiser ;), I for one am happy to see CC post on here.
(damn missed a c, sorry)
Cap in Hand no good lyrics don’t fit, although a power group sounds good, Craig, Charlie, Eddi and the Kane gang.
Failing that a land fit for zeros.
“As for the Sterling zone it is absurd to suggest that rUK would shoot itself in the foot and collapse Sterling in a strop”
Oh go on then. Please provide one single solitary reason why the rest of the UK would prefer a formal currency union to informal sterlingisation of Scotland.
It goes like this:
Formal currency union: cost & hassle of changing current systems. Irritation with having to consult a foreign government on decisions. More irritation as said foreign government constantly strops about being outvoted. Instability & disaster if said foreign government mucks things up.
Sterlingisation: retain common currency benefits. No costs, no hassle. Benefit as large banks and other finance companies shift out of foreign country into remaining UK. Trebles all round!
Sorry, why exactly would any sane person think Osborne, Balls & Alexander are bluffing?
The “Great Economist”, by rejecting the idea of a new currency, has painted himself into a corner. The Unionists are now in a win-win position. It is only a matter of time before this percolates through – decisively.
“Sorry, why exactly would any sane person think Osborne, Balls & Alexander are bluffing?”
Because they dodge all the awkward questions. Or in Osborne’s case, all the questions full stop.
Look, we get that you’re for the Union, but “A POLITICIAN WOULD NEVER BE LYING!” is the shittest argument for anything ever.
@Lindsay – who cares? you work yersel intae a stupor as I’ve said before awa and pump yersel
Oh and by the way the ‘Great Economist’ is our democratically elected First Minister, Leader, King, Sultan, Maharaja, Chieftain, Commander, Director, Dictator, Master, Ruler Alex of the Salmond so GIRUY
Sorry, why exactly would any sane person think Osborne, Balls & Alexander are bluffing?
Ah dunno Lindsay. A lot of my English friends tell me those three lie all the time about everything. Matches with my own feelings.
Do you think them true to every promise they utter? Most of the UK electorate think they’re a lying pile of shite on just about everything according to polls.
Love the idea of no debt though. That’s cool.
@Juteman says:
OT. I was just thinking of all the Scottish songs we could never sing again in the event of a No vote.
We would just have the one song left … Hermless
I came across this that might explain the coordination of events. link to blogs.spectator.co.uk
The truth seems to be that most people (voters that is) aren’t going to lose sleep over Lindsay’s stuff. Evidence from the various debates going on seem to suggestbavshift to YES. I am watching an MP being eviscerated via twitter right now (apparently he didn’t want to be filmed).
I notice that the film Sunshine on Leith has one an award that was voted on by the punters. Is that something to watch for given Kim Il Stu (our supreme leader)’s music ‘vote’ tonight.
We can expect more companies to identify risks from now on and we will need to encourage people to ride it out. You can also expect the supine press and hangers on like Lindsay ( or is it Jezerna?) to make hay on this for some time.
I am hoping to get an economist to give up some information on the rUK without a CU and 100% of the debt. Even I can tell that the figures aren’t pretty. In addition, the cost to the rUK in managing interest rates and inflation looks like it could be a problem.
The S and P report is interesting in that it does identify areas of work for iScotland but it is worth reading if you haven’t already.
link to worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com
Sorry that was O/T in case it wasn’t obvious. My apologies
I wonder if Prof Robertson could be persuaded to do a wee article for Academics for Yes?
That would raise their profile a wee bit. I’ve suggested it to them.
@gerry – I don’t think Prof Robertson is a Yes he was impartial in his academic study of news reporting which makes the BBC’s reaction all the more revolting..
Great turnout in Irvine tonight for Tommy Sheridan, etc. it seems …
link to scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net
@ You and My Comb
Lovin’ that handle – yer a richt Scoatsmun!
Prof Robertson did say he was inclined to Yes, at which point all the usual suspects said, oh well biassed then nothing to see here move along folks.
Mmn… ha ha
Sign up as a foot soldier? Seriously? They’d probably have you stomping down a street in Kandahar. (Other illegal or immoral wars are available)
Hi folks,
Another Friday, more beer and Laphraoig. Joe came out with the “Tartan Tories aka SNP” stuff.
“Mark my words, after they get independence their true colours will show”.
Oh well I presume that means “Yes” will triumph.
hi Folks again.
Joe also had a go against AS vis a vis the commonwealth games and gay rights,
He had read the Herald stuff.
link to archive.is
Sad bunny but I shall pep are for next Friday’s fun by reading the Herald crap.
I can’t help but link these quotes to the ongoing ToryLibLab triad / No to Scottish independence shinanigans.
“It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion.”
(see : threats, secrets, lies, propaganda, smear)
“Think of the press as a great keyboard
on which the government can play.”
( see : BBC and Newspaper bias, often by omission )
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
(see : focus on Currency and EU )
“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
(see : threats of Business and Bank relocation )
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
( The Lie : Scotland’s inability to run its own affairs )
all quotes Joseph Goebbels .
brackets my own
Captain Caveman
I don’t think that your ‘toy town’ jibe was one of your more considered ones.
Don’t let me stop you though 🙂
Send your check to RBS etc, using the account reference HAGGIS??
The’re having a laugh!
… Anyway, sorry guys, I overstepped the mark with the ‘toy town politician’ comments etc., which was rude of me. (This is what I genuinely think, but at the end of the day Scotland is not my country, this isn’t my fight and I have to remind myself to be a little more circumspect than usual here).
Time to cool off my heels for a week or two. 🙂
i for one am offended by the glib remarks of these so called
better together campaigners,they all seem to focus their vitriolic comments towards alex salmond and the snp…scotlands independence is not just about mr salmonand and the snp party,it’s about the people of scotland choosing to take the opportunity to exercise their right to self government,instead of being lorded over by a government which in most cases scotland never voted for,it’s called freedom of choice and i for one choose to side with scotland…not westminster
I was convulsed with laughter. Are you really sure this is not a joke spoof?…..surely that canna be the level of desperation in BT?…..Howl!!