Falling out with Auntie
Many pundits are of the opinion that the new Tory Max government will be actively hostile to the BBC, which the party has long believed is an expensive public-sector hotbed of right-on lefties. So when we did our latest poll, it seemed worth finding out how much the people of Scotland valued the state broadcaster.
There were, let’s say, some interesting quirks.
Least surprising, we suspect, was the divide across the independence frontlines. No fewer than 68% of Yes voters said that if given the choice, they’d either pay nothing for the BBC – wanting it advertising-funded instead – or simply wouldn’t watch it. No voters were significantly less antagonistic, but only up to a point: more than half of them (51%) felt the same way.
SNP voters were the least keen by a large margin, with only 17% being willing to continue paying the current licence fee, compared to a hefty 44% of Lib Dems, with Tories and Labour both in the middle on 30%.
(The BBC, we suspect, will be delighted that its ratings are almost exactly the same among Labour and Tory voters, seeing that as an indicator of “balance”.)
Wealthier ABC1 voters were much happier with the service than the C2DE demographic, split roughly 50/50 on the fee while the lower-income sample opposed paying by around 2:1. Older people were also slightly more willing to pay than other age groups, but still in a minority.
The thing that we weren’t expecting, though, was the difference according to football loyalties. To a very noticeable degree, fans of Celtic and “Rangers” were dissatisfied with the Beeb compared to other football-lovers. Celtic fans had a net approval rating (subtracting those not willing to pay from those who’d pay for TV, radio or both) of -42 and “Rangers” fans -31, compared to the 0 score for other clubs’ supporters.
We’re at a loss to explain that one. The broadcaster’s coverage of Scottish football is a complete disgrace, spending less on the entire SPFL than it does on Gary Lineker’s razor-blade budget for Match Of The Day, but it’s an even-handed disgrace, treating all clubs with equal contempt.
Our best guess – and it’s just a guess – is that both sets of supporters, for very different reasons, are irate with the Corporation over its coverage of the three-year circus on Edmiston Drive. It’s certainly the case that “Rangers” fans are still very bitter about the reporting of certain stories, and the fact that the BBC occasionally lapses into the truth regarding the club’s status as being just three years old.
Celtic fans, meanwhile, may be equally incandescent that the broadcaster invariably makes a craven retreat in the face of the torrent of howling rage from furious “Rangers” fans whenever it dares to acknowledge the latter fact, or just say anything that The Peepul don’t like – a Google search for “rangers fans bbc new club anger” produces page after page of different complaints, almost always met with a grovelling apology for journalists having actually done their job properly.
What little evidence we can offer for that view is that when elsewhere in the poll we also asked respondents to agree or disagree with the proposition “The football club currently playing as ‘Rangers’ is a brand-new club formed in 2012”, the answers from the two sets of fans were almost precisely opposite (with neutrals favouring the “new club” view by a substantial but smaller margin):
CELTIC FANS
Agree: 66%
Disagree: 26%
“RANGERS” FANS
Agree: 28%
Disagree: 66%
OTHER SCOTTISH CLUBS
Agree: 53%
Disagree: 36%
But ultimately we’re just speculating. What we can say with certainty is that if the Tories do unleash their attack dogs on the BBC, then for one reason or another, very few Scots will be racing to its defence.
Brilliant article Stu. I do hope they sharpen the dogs teeth though.
Aye, but the state needs to keep the MOT on a drip feed. They have been known to go off message before – Falklands and Iraq. But if they were to become commercial they could be an even bigger menace to the official view. At least until they self destruct by disappearing up a vortex of endless repeats and cultural imperialism.
I don’t watch TV at all now – and even as a news junkie don’t feel I am less informed. On the odd time I tune in to Radio Scotland I last a few minutes before shouting at the propaganda and changing channel. It is an organisation not fit for purpose – unless of course its sole purpose is to spout propaganda.
“Rangers!” Lol! Any dissenters just watch that clip of your brethren at Forfar on yon YouTube. Nae sympathy.
Rev: FFS, stay away from, if not fitba – then certainly the soap opera which surrounds a certain two cheeks of Glasgow’s fitba erse.
In my blog, I refer to the current Rangers International Football Club as “The Rangers Tribute Act – the RTA”.
Elsewhere, I see members of that fitba tribe known as “Ra Peepul”, casting similar “aspedistras” on the club followed by their (cough) “friends” across the city.
As regards the RTA; I think you will find, in most people’s eyes, if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and spends a lot of time in (deep) water, it probably is a duck.
What a shame..nobody loves aunty any more!
And no wonder, we have such choice now and the younger generation aint watching the box so the beeb has to change.
Really wonder though if the Tories talking tough will actually translate into real reform. Just have to wait and see.
BBC needs to go. Well paid safe jobs for posh middle class kids.
I would pay for nature progs on things like Sharks etc
Good stuff
Rev Stu, I genuinely thought this was a joke!
…’new Tory Max Government will be no friend of the BBC…which (the TMG) have long believed to be an expensive HOTBED of right on LEFTIES’!!!!
Seriously?!!
Wow. Well, I suppose the period dramas were a bit soft on the servants.
(btw everything with ‘Max’ on the label has proved to be pretty insipid and tasteless)
Scrap the BBC.
It’s a very simple issue. You can cancel a SKY subscription. I do not need to buy a certain newspaper etc.
WHY should I be forced to pay for the BBC?
WHY is it under criminal law?
I’d like to see the SNP publicly state that they are willing to work with the Tory government to look at polls such as this, and the conclusive evidence of bias provided by Dr John Robertson and Loughbourgh University, to remove those responsible for breaking their charter. An independent body must be appointed to monitor
political content and apply fines and or remove the agitators.
Perhaps SNP could move on from there to reveal how Cameron controls which global hit series we are allowed access to and when. Outlander is the prime candidate for this topic.
PS Rev Stuart, please try to lead us away from old firm taunts and accusations. These things have been holding Glasgow and Scotland back for 125 years, and I’d like to move on as a united nation. If their actions don’t include a football, let’s just leave it well alone. Thanks!
@Chitterinlicht
We already pay for programmes with Sharks. BBC News and current affairs. 😉
The news reporting has been brought into question, but I would argue that there are many good things about the broadcaster. The emphasis on music, spoken word radio, documentary.
I think we should be careful what we wish for.
“The news reporting has been brought into question, but I would argue that there are many good things about the broadcaster. The emphasis on music, spoken word radio, documentary.”
I was surprised there wasn’t more love for radio. That was why I split the question into whether people would pay for either TV or radio only, and I thought radio might have come out better, as it often has higher listening figures than you might expect. But respondents were much more likely to be happy paying for telly. That’s why you do polling – to find out if you might be wrong about stuff.
The days of the license fee are just about over and hopefully the days when we have a Scottish Broadcasting Company are getting closer. I don’t think I could be humble and magnanimous when Garry Robertson and co get their comeuppance. Watch out auntie your days are numbered.
Football, shopping (and television?), the Opium of the people. The (Westminster controlled) BBC in Scotland is a disgrace. Especially the ‘News’. People get their ‘News’ from other channels now, not the MSM.
Football is a declining market. It’s only a game not a lifestyle choice. It has priced itself out of the Market. Losing support. Some teams will go. Why does every City need two teams?
What has the goofball question to do with the current state we find ourselves in with a rabid right wing Tory Government about to destroy what little is left of democracy.
Rangers FC went into liquidation, fact. Beyond that who cares, they are still in a mess.
I used to be a fan of the BBC, I had a good number of friends work for them. My eyes have been opened these last few years, they are nothing more than a mouthpiece for the state, I now watch other TV news channels but enjoy BBC radio, even the phone ins if only for the extreme uninformed anti SNP views.
Finally, Murphy must stay as they say on the terraces.
The only surprise for me is that anyone really thinks the BBC is doing a good job.
It is absolute crap. Spouts government propaganda as well as all the Londoncentric view of everything.
As for Pacific Quay, needs cleared out from top to bottom of all the Labour toadies. I do mean all of them. There would be very few left standing. Izzy Fraser and Ken MacDonald are amongst the few who would keep their jobs.
Make the damned BBC pay by subscription then it’s up to the individual whether they want it or not.
Goofball !!! Damn predictive texting, it’s Football.
Stu,
If the point of this site is merely to preach to the converted then the Rangers v “Rangers” stuff probably doesn’t matter.
However, (I hope) the ultimate goal of everyone reading/supporting/donating to this blog is to convert No’s into Yes’s by the next time we have a referendum.
It’s a bit silly to alienate a large section of people due to football. Stick to the politics.
The most shocking thing about auntie is finding out she’s actually your uncle.
The idea of a non-tax funding for an independent, non-commercial (no ads) broadcaster is a great ideal. We should not be in a rush to throw this baby out with the bathwater. It is hard to be an impartial Public Service Broadcaster (or any other form of media – for example the Telegraph and HSBC) if you’re dependent on advertising revenue.
The Tories will be opposing the BBC because it does not function as a State broadcaster – as in the former Warsaw Pact countries – supporting their every whim slavishly. The Tories seem impervious to the fact that in those countries everyone knew that the Media were controlled, and were at the very least rather judicious in their interpretation of the stories…
As Alex Salmond pointed out, there were times when the BBC were confused as to the role of a Public Service broadcaster and a State broadcaster.
God help us if we end up with FOX news or the equivalent!
@ Jacqualine.
For some of us the days of the lisence fee are already over.
🙂
The ‘News’. ‘Cameron will get tough on the BBC’, ‘Cameron attacks the BBC’. Couldn’t happen to so much cortuot folk. Cameron controlls the BBC. Appoints the Head, a criminal tax evading banker, who should be in jail. Cameron meets the head of the BBC every week to tell them what to do.
Stop Press Hold the News. Cameron and his corrupt associates are planning in selling off the BBC, another State institution so they can line their corrupt pockets with £Million of public money (selling off public assets, because they do not raise enough in taxes for essential services) in fees and commission to add to their vast, already corrupt, tax evaded, defrauded vast fortunes, The only reason why they are in Government. The elderly like their BBC and the majority of them vote.
Salmond and Co should go for it and get a chance for a separate broadcasting service in Scotland. .
I don’t agree that a broadcasting service paid for by advertising would be more accurate and impartial. Just look at the U.S. tv. Public Service Broadcasting ought to be the best, serving the public, and not a State Propaganda operation serving the interests of global corporations, which an advert funded service would do directly.
I want a fully independent Scottish broadcaster not the bbc, to much of being backstabbed by the bbc to ever be forgotten. If we need the bbc I would rather pay for it like sky or it is paid for by advertising.
They really do need to take the hint by this point. Some folks may decide to helpfully spread doggie treats on all roads leading to PQ.
Gave up our lisence and TV watching after the referendum. Why pay to have lies told to you? Lozenge people absolutely convinced we’relying but I don’t think they understand a political stance. Especiallyif they don’t agree with it.
BBC Scotland could be devolved to Scotland with a new charter to represent and nurture indigenous talent, creativity, and to gather and to transmit news, all on a local, national, and international basis.
Given a grant for five years to assist the transition from London-based state broadcaster relieves it of seeking as many viewers as possible, and gives it time to move to simply serving the people of Scotland.
In time the Scottish government could decide on how it should be finance, but immediately shifting to a Scottish gathering broadcaster reduces the licence fee for England.
A charter for Scotland would protect it from the likes of Murdoch and from predatory corporations.
Will the Tory party forever squealing its full of pinkoes and commies (it’s not) do that? Not on your life. Which pretty well seals its fate as a broadcasting station in the event of independence.
FFS Fitba’ again. In the great scheme of things it’s an irrelevance as Fundily Mundily fund oot tae his cost!
I really enjoyed the last poll (about attitudes towards the death penalty, rail nationalisation etc) as it provided an unusual snapshot of peoples views. If I remember correctly the purpose was to ask the type of questions that parties wouldn’t, as they weren’t deamed manifesto material.
This time a poll was conducted to see how people felt about the Scottish labour press-release policies, so this is where the football stuff comes from, I assume.
Football is of interest to a limited amount of people, yet appears to be contentious and all-consuming when it is discussed on threads. I understand that’s probably why it was Murphy’s topic of choice, but I wish we were discussing other big dividing lines instead. Everybody knows the real way society’s separated…cats? or dogs? 😉
[…] Falling out with Auntie […]
The Tories have never hesitated to dismantle or destroy national “institutions”.
British Rail, British Steel, the NCB and of course the threat to the NHS.
Whatever the faults of these organisations, they did at least have a purpose and are missed by many. The BBC was once valued and would once also have been missed but no longer. So come on Tory axemen, do your worst!
Nazareth moment. Discovering Tom Morton was an arch Unionist. It makes yer greet.
Good luck on the health issues, was a fan but had to listening. it was a step too far.
The BBC was supposed to be impartial but did not live up to it’s Charter.
I look forward to broadcasting being devolved so that we can have 24/7 news from a Scottish rather than a British perspective. Impartiality can be enforced with some kind of oversight body.
I’d also be glad to pay for someone to smack Macquarrie, Boothman and the Radio guy across the back of the head on the hour every.
I know that sound brutal and unpleasant but that is what they have been doing to us for years now.
Were it not for the BBC, we would probably be independent and we would not have a ukip mep.
Bin it.
@Ken500:
I think football matters as both the national game, and as a communal activity that people get involved in together. I also don’t accept that it’s losing support as a natural occurrence; rather, I think it’s losing support because of the utterly abject way that it’s run.
People were jumping up and down about the new sponsorship deal yesterday, and how great it is. We shouldn’t forget that it took over two years for the powers that be to find a sponsor at all and that the new “deal” would be worth just over £47,000 a year to each club in Scotland were it to be distributed evenly (it won’t be). Peanuts.
As this very post shows, people differ in their views depending on which football team they support. That means that it makes political sense, to me anyway, to try and understand why that is, so that something can be done about it. To do otherwise strikes me as a bit strange.
The Tories had already destroyed the BBC in the 80’s when they sacked DG Alisdair Milne and brought in people like John Birt to introduce internal markets and producer choice. They use AP now instead of employing proper journalists like Kate Adie who was sidelined.
Then Blair sacked Greg Dyke over reporting the Iraq War WMD fiasco. He had planned to make the back catalogue available free since we, the public, had already paid for it. No way! Too lucrative a treasure trove to let joe public benefit.
Education programmes are now laughable.
News and current affairs are straight forward propaganda.
It needs an independent governing body committed to restoring public service broadcasting. How to get there? At least devolving the Scottish service could allow us to restore it here.
I’m already in a bad mood this week, readers, so any more bleating about football will find itself walking on very thin ice.
We divided the survey sample by football allegiance for specific reasons outlined in previous posts. Having done so, it would then be moronic not to look at that section of the data in relation to other questions. Football fans are more than half the population of Scotland, and particularly the working-class population.
The extremely big gulf between Celtic and “Rangers” fans and other Scots with regard to the BBC is interesting and surprising and deserves some analysis. If you don’t care, ignore it. But don’t tell me what I can and can’t damn well write about.
Good God Rev, leave the football comments alone or get some psychiatric help to deal with this obsession.
I, and I suspect many others come here and have donated to get your excellent dissection of the politics in Scotland and the rUK.
Get over the Rangers, Celtic nonsense and concentrate on what you are unarguably good at.
Apart from the political coverage, the BBC have always produced decent programming. I’ve worked abroad and watched endless reruns of US pap but anything from the BBC was always welcome.
Well said Rev! Get extremely pissed off at the sanctimonious posters on here that if they don’t like what you write or disagree with your opinion you are automatically classed as a Troll. Surprisingly they are plenty. Free speech and all that guys and gals. No?
Unemployment in Scotland rises because of Tory Gov economic policies which favours London S/E. Increased taxation in the Oil sector in 2011 losing Scotland £4Billion a year – £16Billion. Trident renewal/illegal wars. The Scottish Gov having no economic control over the Scottish economy. Not enough powers. Westminster not raising enough taxes in the rest of the UK for essential services. Too much borrowing. Scotland having to pay back the rest of the UK debt Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend, to support tax evasion in the City of London.
Anyone notice prices going down because of the fall in Oil prices. Consumer prices seem to be going up. Someone is making a killing. All the companies who said to vote NO are in difficulties because of Tory policies. Tesco’s, Oil Companues etc. BP the worst company in commercial history. Westminster are still printing too much money adding to the debt. Boom and bust.
.
If there’s one aspect of Scottish life that’s more rancid and corrupt than the BBC, it’s Scottish football and the role of the SFA. But I don’t know why we are picking at wounds on issues like the Rangers new club / old club debate. Hardly likely to promote Scottish unity, is it?
Power over broadcasting should be high on Nicola’s list of powers she wants devolved asap.
The BBC, could continue as a subscription service in Scotland. Those who wish to watch it can pay as they do now.
An SBC with a mandate to report news and political affairs in an unbiased manner should set up.
Output of the SBC should factual and cultural. it should support Scottish indigenous drama and arts output. There will be plenty of subscription and commercial channels for imported entertainment.
I agree with Andrew Walker above.
Simply no need to introduce the “Rangers” thing into a perfectly good article about the failings of our State Broadcaster. It’s an unnecessary distraction. Who cares about them anyway, apart from their own supporters? You’re merely poking that particular wasps’ nest for no good reason and bear in mind, these guys are potential Yes voters of the future!
I understood the research findings to illustrate a wider political point about the attitudes of unionist v nationalist. It is relevant to the debate about BBC bias. Unionists are perfectly happy with the status quo.
The psychologist Alfred Adler made this point about birth order.
The eldest child is usually conservative. He believes those already in power should stay in power.
The second child is a revolutionary. He believes those in power should be overthrown and a democratic system introduced.
O/T sorry. But there are more important things than football
The tory scrapping human rights proposal is already international.
This from the Irish Times.
link to archive.is
Perhaps Cadogan Enright can give more from the North
One more and I’m closing fricking comments on this post, seriously.
Whatever happens we need control of the media in Scotland however we do it.
If the BBC continues here, then it should be by subscription and adhere to Scottish rules in the News and politics.
If they are incapable of that, as I suspect, then they should contain themselves to making documentaries and comedy programs, which they are good at.
Either way they need a quantum change,nothing less will do.
However, SKY will become the replacement for political issues with our Unionist friends, as they really need to keep the mind control going to survive.
De Valera
The worst recent dismantling of a State owned organisation was the sale to BP by the Thatcher government of The British national Oil Corporation.
At a stroke this gave billions of pounds to BP and eliminated any control or influence over decisions affecting the development of the biggest industry ever to be built up in Scotland.
By contrast, in Norway, Statoil owns and operates a large slice of the oil industry and has, by law, to be offered a stake in all new discoveries.
As a result Norway has benefitted hugely and even makes sure that a large percentage of oil construction work is done in their yards.
Their Sovereign wealth fund is about six hundred billion pounds while ours is zero
The greatest robbery in history.
Got admit, I’d rather football was kept out of it. Many of us know from past experience that, in Scotland, mixing football and politics is a sure way to cause division, especially when the extremist minority of the old firm lot start taking offence and throwing insults. Not that I think that that applies to anyone on here.
I’d rather have known the views of all Scots, regardless of what football team they support, where they stand re a Scottish six, and their thoughts on should broadcasting in Scotland be devolved to the Scottish government. I’d also like to have their views on the extremely poor coverage the BBC gives to all sports in Scotland, and would they be prepared to lobby their Westminster government MPs to have those points addressed.
I find your political and journalistic examination up there with the world best.
I find your absorption with the minutiae of football tiresome and irreverent and irrelevant.
We all know the accuracy of the ownership of the club but when dealing with the “faithful” (i like that )in any area of human activity it is courtesy if nothing else to let the holder of the belief to declare its preferred title.
I declare an interest in that I detest football and all its works!
As a Celtic fan you now have me thinking about Pat Nevin…thanks for that!
BBC did give us a teatime laugh yesterday…Mags Curran was deemed ‘Pointless’
Lord Dracula wants the Lumpen Party to be more Right wing and the North British Numptie serfs want to pretend they are more left wing to catch up with the SNP. Dodgy Dave Cameron had the hardest job in Britain trying to outflank the Labour Party from the right.
Let’s hope the Fighting 56 will demand full autonomy for the North British Branch of the EBC, situated cultural miles away somewhere in the Pacific region. EBC.
Heard Kaye Madam on the stam radio yesterday going ballistic with an SNP caller who told her the correct figures of SNP, as opposed to Ukippers, share of the vote. The chap from the electoral reform did little for her blood pressure by reiterating facts and not her prejudices.
The EBC outpost in the Pacific outpost is may be a Labour Citadel, but certainly no “loonie” left bastion.
The Tories (Thatcher) privatised essential services and made the situation worse. Banking crash. Demutualised the Building Societies owned by their members. Lowered (world) banking regulation – the banking crash. Sold off utilities. Foreign state owned companies are making profits from UK services. The railways have higher subsidies. HS2 will be a subsidised ‘white elephant’ making journeys to and from the North longer damaging the economy, but making UK Gov Ministers and their associates vast fortunes of public money. There is no business case and no Market, but itnwill add to the congestion in London S/E, damaging the economy.
You were warned, twice. Comments off for an hour for everyone to have a think about what they want. If people start whining about football again when I reopen them, I’ll close them on this article permanently. Don’t push me today, readers.
OT but hilarious in these tense times..
UNDER any other leader than Jim Murphy, Labour would not just have been defeated last week – but killed stone dead, says TORCUIL CRICHTON.
The BBC was founded on a paternal proposition: “we are going to be taking some of your pocket money so that we can use it to help give you the entertainment and education we think are suitable for you; trust us!”. However patronizing, that model was pretty effective in the days when production was massively expensive, when broadcasting channels were very limited and when the UK was a more homogenous entity.
These days, the audience has grown up: in a world of overwhelming choice we are happy to lend our eyes, ears, content contributions and subscription funds to the people who actually produce the best content in whatever niche area (like Wings!). The rest can either evolve or die off and there is no need for some parental figure performing opaque filtering and selection operations: social media and search engines can do that far more effectively.
On the specific of news reporting, I feel torn. Personally I think that the best news reporting is done by people who are are somewhat partisan. Trying to be genuinely neutral whilst not being insipid is very tricky. A mature audience knows that it may have to listen to more than one biased observer to be able to form their own balanced viewpoint. Again they don’t need a parental figure to do this for them.
I think the non-appreciation of radio is because most folk don’t listen. It is background noise to make you feel you are not alone. While a great boon for many it will not be valued as people’s expectations are that they shouldn’t have to be alone, that they should be part of society and not fobbed off with the radio on in the background.
Wee Alex, you’ve disappointed me with your correction. I read goofball as very apt.
I am not whining about football. What I am doing is objecting to your supercilious, autocratic demeanour in this thread, which does you no favours. Remember that (like MPs) you are a servant of those who pay your wages.
Can I make a personal observation.
It seems to me that when anyone mentions the bad points of a certain team in Glasgow. There is a an outpouring of denial, that said problems exists. I prefer honesty in debate.
So if you follow a team that plays in Blue in Glasgow. Don’t take the criticism personally. It’s about the institution that you support. By default you are part of the fanbase, if you go to the games. Instead of denying and defending the bigotry. Admit the problem at the very least.
Why anyone would want to sit in said stadium with some of these vile people remains beyond my ken and will always be.
Sincere apologies Stu, but I didn’t see your post re posting about football.
I get a time lag between posts. When I post, for some reason it doesn’t show up for about half an hour. Same with anyone else’s new posts. There’s a time delay before I get to see them.
Wonder if orange order marches and their offshoots will come under Teresa May’s new edict? Aye right. They definitely should though, meets all her criteria.
“Remember that (like MPs) you are a servant of those who pay your wages.”
You have very badly misunderstood the situation. Bye.
Seems pretty straight forward.
People tune out of a media that doesn’t acknowledge their views. Not represent, not promote just the basic of acknowledgement. Print, TV, radio all the same.
Easy options now via alternative media. Them trying to limit these outlets will be more worrying with the current insidious drive to “British” values in freedom of speech.
One perpetual complaint about BBC Scotland is its paucity of sports coverage for all Scottish sport, hill walking, climbing, canoeing, Highland Games, and shinty not shoved to Gaelic television. None get the promotion they deserve.
I recall football always getting second mention in sports news. “And now for the Scottish football results”. A broadcaster devoted to Scotland-outward coverage has an obligation to serve what is happening here before all else.
The BBC’s global reputation for fairness and good reporting is acknowledged. I recall the special ‘Ground Force’ programme when Titchmark, Charlie Dimmock and Walsh built a new garden for Nelson Mandela.
There was a wee clip at the end as Mandela inspected the garden, when he reminded Titmarch: “Never forget what a great and important organisation the BBC is”. That is how it is still largely seen outwith these shores.
But, it can be argued that, the BBC’s finest hours were between 1939 and 1945, when it was, to all intents and purposes a State Broadcaster.
Seventy years on, the Establishment still wants the BBC to be just that – a State Broadcaster, thus, when it doesn’t reflect the views of the Red or Blue Tory side of the Establishment, that side spits the dummy.
Maybe, we Scots are a wee bit like that. The BBC is a London-centric organisation. All the power, all the big decisions are taken in W1A 1AA. Sure, they have middle managers out in the Nations and Regions, but, as with the Labour and Tory parties – they have to do what the big boys and girls in London tell them.
Then we come down to the personal leanings of the presenters and reporters; as many people on here have noted, hard though some people will try (and not so hard as others will), personal bias comes into how issues are tackled.
Just because we don’t think some of the “talent” on current affairs or news programmes are agin our view of an issue, doesn’t mean we should be screaming for their heads – we have to counter their imbalance.
As was once mooted on these threads, when a Brewer or a Bird or a Smith talks-over a pro-independence guest, there is a lot to be said for the guest simply shutting-up until, at the end of an uncomfotable silence (and there is nothing more-uncomfortable to a talking head than “dead air”) the talking head speaks again.
Then, you hit them with: “Sorry, I was waiting for you to interrupt me again”. Do that twice or three times and the message would soon get across to BBC management.
But, my main gripe with the BBC is that is has become as bloated and over-manned as any old style Soviet government department. They could probably take out about three layers of management and the public would be none the wiser.
At the risk of falling foul of the Rev, their coverage of Scottish football is a prime example of this. Superannuated former “Old Firm stars”, picking-up a nice little earner for saying too-much, little of which is of any interest, clarification or entertainment value – and, in most cases, NEVER criticising “their” team, while trying to kid us, the dross we are watching on the park is in any way guid fitba.
I would love to see an independent Scottish Broadcasting Corporation set-up, but, when I look at some of the contenders to run it, and appear on-screen. Maybe not.
It is the need to strike a balance that can lead to a biased Report. The Control (Westminster)) is exerting a bias on what is supposed to be a neutral service, especially in Scotland. An unelected Political Party in Scotland controls the BBC. Westminster appoints the Head of the BBC. The BBC head goes to Downing Street every week for their orders. The Head of the BBC appoints the Head of the BBC in Scotland. The Head of the BBC in Scotland goes to London every month for their orders. The Head of the BBC in Scotland should be appointed by the Scottish Gov. The BBC should be devolved.
I took part in this poll and tbh I struggled to find a response that matched my feelings, because I could see what lay behind this question.
Were it not mandatory – in its current form – I wouldn’t pay.
Were my license fee going to support an independent Scottish public broadcaster with a remit to support and develop creative talent in Scotland and with a Scottish outlook on news and current affairs – well then, I would have absolutely no objection to paying, in fact I’d pay double.
I value it immensley for what it has the potential to be, not for what it is at present.
The BBC like a failing football club,needs as a minimum a good clear out,most probably something more severe,as they do not listen to joe publics opinions/complaints,(that’s no way to run a business).
The decision should be taken for them,they once had the trust of most of the population,held the moral high ground but that is long since gone,save for a few older labour folk.
Your poll plus many other indicators,indicate to me there would be little objection to reform, the time is right,the time is now,or are they untouchable ?
Councils have full control to stop the Orange Marches etc. Council By Orders. Refuse permission. Most councils do. Only one council allows them every other week GCC. Wasteful, diversive and destructive minority.
Rev.Stu please carry on shining a light on these matters. Evil thrives in darkness. It is a very strange situation at Ibrox perhaps unique and deserves scrutiny.
@ Bryan Weir.
This is Rev Stu’s blog. He can do what he likes here, it is not a democracy.
Having said that, I think it is instructive wrt to polls. As with news, they determine the agenda and what is to be held to be important. And that is determined by whoever commissions the poll. Inherently not objective. As well to remember that with this great example before us.
Many Celtic supporters aren’t hacked off with the BBC purely because of football coverage, but where they are, in my experience it’s the general quality of the coverage they/we don’t like. It’s substandard with poor pundits and there’s been a poor view of the BBC from many Celtic supporters for as long as I can remember.
Another oddity is the UKIP responses. I would have thought that given the BBC’s promotion of UKIP over the last few years UKIP supporters would have been pro BBC. But they are not.
I wonder if this is something to do with change. It is noticeable that Con Lab and even more so LibDems are supporters of things going on unchanged whereas the newcomers, the change agents, SNP and UKIP are anti aunty. Ditto with Yes and No
Could the Old Firm result be also down to this “change” reaction? I am not interested in football but it does seem that the big change has been the demise of Rangers and Celtic’s loss of its significant other whereas for the rest it has been pie and bovril as normal.
I do think that support for the BBC is a bit like Linus’ blanket, a comfort to those unwilling to accept change rather than a principled support of the idea of public service broadcasting.
These are dangerous times for the Beeb, a Tory government and charter renewal and another now substantial political party in Westminster that was set up as a response to the Britification of Scottish culture. I hope your survey has added to their worries.
The BBC has rather cunningly managed to upset just about everyone.
The Tories are less than disposed to the BBC on point of principle, Labour are sore about the coverage in England and 50% of the electorate In Scotland support a party that has been particularly ill-served by the BBC.
I support the principle of public broadcasting but the BBC have tested it to breaking point.
Bryan Weir says:
14 May, 2015 at 10:24 am
(I am not whining about football. What I am doing is objecting to your supercilious, autocratic demeanour in this thread, which does you no favours. Remember that (like MPs) you are a servant of those who pay your wages.)
As a long time contributor to this WOS (& much appeciate the Revs MODERATION )
He is no way my Servant & I sure many others on here will agree with that statement.
Draw yer neck in.
I don’t know why people don’t just accept the BBC for what it is.
The best commercial free TV in the world.
Ok, the BBC Scotland News Dept might be rife with bias but so what. For me, the Scottish population is more intelligent than they give it credit. If the BBC had such a huge impact then how come Labour just had it’s “bum” skelped?
People are wise to the “stuff” that BBC News are shovelling.
Who wants to have another commercial TV channel, not me, I really hate the adverts.
I for one will be taking the “high road”, live and let live.
Happy for the BBC to continue producing excellent programmes without adverts and also happy to ignore the bits I don’t like.
I love Radio 4 by the way, it must be my age.
(Must admit though, I’m not a big Archers fan)
Initially surprised at the radio figures but there are not so many of us that can remember radio licences, so maybe not so surprising that people don’t want to pay for it.
I think it is rather interesting having the football allegiance breakdown. It may be a bit blasphemous to mention here but a lot of people are more interested in and have more unmovable opinions about football than politics.
In the context of the BBC which covers so little scottish sport it is very relevant.
I will be interested to see if this has been applied to all the questions in the survey. Full tables soon? (Or maybe I’ve just missed them)
@ Indigo
Well said. I am on the same page. Public sector broadcasting was fatally undermined when Birt was placed at the head of the BBC, and that was done by design to further the neoliberal belief that all things are essentially akin to companies.
I do not imagine BBC was perfect in the past: but its values were worth having, even in the breach. And with the internet it would be easier to hold it to the remit now than ever before.
I do see a place for a strong public service media, particularly TV. But that is not what we have now, for the public sector ethos has been systematically undermined. Question is whether it can be restored, and if it can, should it? To me the answer to both is yes and I think it is telling that Mr Murdoch has been campaigning against the very idea for many years. He is winning with help from tories, blue,red and yellow.
But the rest of the media is a mouthpiece for corporations and their interests: it is no better to have that than to have state propaganda, even when the two are really different in content: and at present they are not. So the only substantive difference is cost: do you want to be brainwashed at cost: or would you like to pay more for it so as to provide a profit for the brainwashers?
Those are your options for now 🙂
Ronnie – eloquent as ever, thanks 🙂
Remember that (like MPs) you are a servant of those who pay your wages.”
Funniest post ever!
@ Ken 500 In total agreement with your post .but it wont happen any time soon the Establishment need the BBC World Wide Services to promote they,re Propaganda.
They teach the English Language to Furrinners(at our expence)but dont want them in Britain,(go figure)
DONT PAY THE LICENCE FEE.
BBC ‘balance’ is when a reporter tells us about a military coup in some far off country but omits to tell us the coup is CIA funded and directed to remove a democratically elected leader who’s not paying attention to US interests.
Later, if pushed by subsequent public outrage, it might get two people on a discussion programme to argue if there is CIA or not CIA involvement, as if there is doubt.
Democracy is overthrown, civilians are killed or tortured but BBC ‘balance’ is sacrosanct.
Being an old guy I remember when our viewing was confined to the local bug hoose Saturday matinee, (the lung cancer and obligatory flech acquisition came free).
The UK government has always treated Scotland as the poor relation. We are last in the queue for any service. We were last to get the single channel black & white BBC channel, (1952).
Last to get the other BBC channels, last to get commercial TV Channels, last to get colour tv, last to move up to 625 lines, last to get HiDef.
Let’s change all that and be first to end both the UK BBC and the UK licence fee and the broadcasting regulation by Westminster.
For heaven’s sake it was one of us that invented the first practical system though I’ve more than once had Englanders dispute that fact on the grounds that Logie Baird used ideas and components invented by others.
Sheesh! The guy who invented the wheel used existing materials, components and tools and the guys inventing the tools used existing tools, components and materials.
[…] Many pundits are of the opinion that the new Tory Max government will be actively hostile to the BBC, which the party has long believed is an expensive public-sector hotbed of right-on lefties. So when we did our latest poll, it seemed worth finding out how much the people of Scotland valued the state broadcaster. […]
Auntie’s elastic snapped years ago with more and more of her union jack slip showing to the observant.
Can her modesty be saved by covering her embarrassment with a new saltire design, that’s questionable?
Aye, when you peek and find your aunties actually your uncle as proffered by @G4jeepers earlier then what can you say?
Two years and not paying, not looking but I do enjoy the radio in general.
Another threating letter yesterday cough up by 20th May or else.
PS: Sorry Herald won’t archive an extract.
…………………………………………………….
Gordon Matheson, a loyal supporter of beleaguered Scots party boss Jim Murphy, is expected to be found a slot on the city’s regional list having led the council since mid-2010.
He had been earmarked by the party leadership to head the Glasgow list but last week’s Westminster disaster for Labour has led to the plans being reassessed, with one or two deposed MPs now touted as being given top billing.
Mr Matheson has refused to confirm or deny the claims, saying he was focused on “serving the people of Glasgow”.
If successful, the move would see a change at the top of the authority going into the local government elections in 2017.
However, for the first time in several years Glasgow City Council has been awash with chatter about its leadership, with some openly discussing their desire for a new regime.
The Herald understands one party grandee in the city was openly criticising Mr Matheson over the weekend, with one councillor boasting of being able to carry a bloc of 10 colleagues if a leadership challenge was mounted.
Another has told The Herald of their willingness to stand as a stalking horse candidate if a credible challenger was in the wings.
However, even critics of Mr Matheson have cast doubt on any benefits on a council coup in the wake of Thursday’s Westminster wipeout.
A meeting lasting nearly hours of city councillors yesterday was described as “incredibly sombre”, with varying views on Mr Murphy’s leadership aired.
It comes as Labour holds internal discussions around the appointment of a ‘caretaker leader’, with a view to protecting deputy leader Kezia Dugdale, who many see as the party’s future.
One idea being promoted is for Ms Dugdale to take over after the next Holyrood election rather than shouldering the blame for an anticipated poor performance.
Ahead of a visit to Scotland next week, Ms Harman, who is acting UK leader since the departure of Mr Miliband, has refused to back her former frontbench colleague to stay on.
A spokeswoman for Ms Harman said: “Harriet thinks Jim stepped up at a time and did a great job in very difficult circumstances.
“Problems in Scotland are deep rooted and decisions about how to go forward should be a matter for the Scottish party.
“She is keen to go up there next week and meet with colleagues including Jim.”
It has also emerged Midlothian Constituency Labour Party is set to hold a vote of no confidence on Mr Murphy’s leadership next week.
Alex Bennett, a Labour councillor in Dalkeith, said he expected other local branches across the country to follow if Mr Murphy survives the weekend as leader. He said he has written to his representatives on the Scottish Executive Committee, asking them to vote against Mr Murphy on Saturday.
He said: “His position is untenable as far as I’m concerned. His decision to stay is ripping the Labour Party apart. If you were a football manager and played 40 matches and got beat 10-0 every game you’d expect to go. That’s his position, it’s a total wipeout.
“The bongo drums are going all across Scotland among the grassroots, all the voices I’m hearing want him to go.”
One senior Glasgow source said: “Jim’s position is precarious if not untenable. He’s not the cause of the problems but he’s a huge part. People don’t buy him or his approach and even solid party loyalists want him to go.
…………………………………………………..
Hmm! Saving Deputy Dugdale..the future of labour in Scotland 🙂
I hope someone was recording the BBC news at 11am today. Norman Smith just said “Nigel Farage is in danger of turning UKIP into a personality cunt, ah ehm eh, cult cult.” I nearly pished masel. 🙂
Aye, the Rev is not our servant. He is our brother and our hero. This is his blog and if you don’t like it do one.
OT. Just looking at a chart on Bella Caledonia about %s who think of themselves as Scots or British and combinations in between.
I must be misremembering data I read here on the proportions. Although the % who think of themselves a British is familiar, those who think of themselves as Scottish seems much smaller.
It is possibly the combination of Scottish and mostly Scottish that I don’t remember correctly.
So only 42% of Scots are prepared to pay any licence fee. An opinion poll some months ago showed only 42% of Scots said they trusted the BBC. I suspect BBC Scotland had a large role in alienating a majority of Scots. Will the BBC, like Scottish Labour, adapt to the Scotland they operate in or will it be business as usual?
@Big Jock says: 14 May, 2015 at 10:27 am:
Can I make a personal observation.
It seems to me that when anyone mentions the bad points of a certain team in Glasgow. There is a an outpouring of denial, that said problems exists. I prefer honesty in debate.
Matter of fact, Jock, I pointed out, just a few days ago, that the truth is that particular team is indeed a new business company and NOT a club. While the fan base is a group of affiliated supporters clubs. The Rev, as usual, is correct.
It is of no consequence to anyone else but the supporters clubs would do well to realise they are NOT part of the company but are part of the supporters clubs. Also that the club is NOT the company and thus are not what is under attack.
Can’t stand Liberal Democrat type sneering at sections of society using the guise of a poll to do it
Bye
Almannysbunnet @ 11.20am.
Thanks for that: another mouthful of coffee splattered over my lap top from laughing.
Stu,
Don’t generalise Rangers fans as one giant monolithic bloc of skinhead knuckle-draggers. It’s lazy and hypocritical. Most of all, it puts us off coming on here. Make us feel welcome please.
Aaron
On saving Kezia Dugdale.
She fully supported Jim Murphy and deserves no better than what has happened to him.
We deserve better. However, just as there is opposition to failed Labour and LibDem MPs being given seats in the HofLs, those failed MPs shouldn’t be slotted into Holyrood next year.
I hope everyone stays focused. Personally I’d like to see reduced Labour etc and increased Greens.
The BBC have this article on the spending of political parties during the Referendum. What are BT hiding?
link to bbc.co.uk
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
o/t Torcuil has finally flipped his lid completely!
Heedtracker,
The ukippers would probably have responded differently just before the european election, when Farage was hardly off the telly and being blatantly promoted by the Beeb. They would have been rather disappointed in the change of focus for GE15.
Wow, that Bryan Weir(d) is a barrel of laughs! Coffee/keyboard moment of the week.
Ok Stu, when you’ve finished writing your blog you can come around and empty my dishwasher!
Scottish Questions on Hollyrood Tv . 12pm FMQs
The institution of the BBC, our “public broadcasting service,” has been tarnished by those who work in the upper echelons and those that are supposed to oversee them. I don’t blame all the news reporters as there are few among us who have the balls to stand up and go against the wishes of their employers. Saying that, the vast majority, who have links to and show obvious bias towards labour in Scotland, deserve no sympathy and should go. The idea of a true PBS is a good thing but it is too tempting a target for infiltration by those with vested political interests. We need a non commercial balance to counter the Murdochs of this world with their “fair and balanced” Fox News channels. The freedom of the internet is a gift but it cannot yet compete with the propaganda beamed into everyone’s home. An independent Scottish media with truly independent oversight is absolutely critical if democracy is to flourish.
Climb every mountain
Ford every stream
Follow every rainbow
Till you find your dream
Labour needs Scotland. Aye but Scotland don’t need labour.
link to archive.is
Arron -I don’t think anyone doesn’t welcome you. What we are trying to get past is the total denial that seems to exist. Firstly it is not a minority who waive union flags at games. It’s the visual majority.
The same for the songs. It’s the majority who sing Rule Britannia. You are the minority if you don’t do such things. But please do not defend the indefensible. As soon as a criticism is made. The automatic instintual response is :”Don’t tarnish everyone”. But that’s completely missing the point and deliberately.
If I say Slabour are a unionist party. Does that mean all their supporters are unionists! No but the party stands for unionism. If you are part of the party, you are part of a unionist organisation. The important thing is not denying the things exists in the first place. It’s about recognising the problem and trying to alter it from within or simply walking away.
I personally think that I wouldn’t stay to be part of an institution that refuses to change, and is fundamentally contradictory to what I believe in.
It’s your choice to stay , but I see no evidence of change!
Like many, I was disgusted by the BBC, and especially BBC Scotlands, extremely biased coverage of the referendum. I think they lost a lot of lifelong supporters over that.
The BBC Scotland bias then continued into the General Election with its Pro Labour agenda. Endless coverage of whatever nonsense Smurphy was spouting while simultaneously either ignoring or undermining our ELECTED government in Holyrood. I didn’t want the BBC to be an SNP mouthpiece, I just wanted them to be fair.
The argument for having a licence fee was always: 1) to avoid (or at least minimise), government interference in news coverage and, 2) to make quality programming that would never be made by the commercial networks.
They failed completely on the first and have been getting progressively poorer at the second.
I think the BBC, much like the Labour Party during the Blair years, has become part of the establishment. They have the same agenda as the rest of the MSM and act to stifle alternative viewpoints. Many of those viewpoints – Like anti austerity economics, removal of Trident or the re-nationalisation of rail and power have a great deal of popular support.
I think, the BBC, like the Labour Party, has been destroyed from within, probably deliberately.
I can’t see much point in either of them continuing to exist any more to be honest. Sadly, I’m not sure that either of them have anything left to contribute to society.
According to link to comparetheleagues.com, the Scottish Premier League is attended by 1.65% of the population.
Average game attendance in Scotland is under 14,000 compared to over 34,000 in England.
Attendance then is tiny despite it being promoted on an industrial scale via the TV, radio, print & on-line media. If this were any other product, the market would have made it obsolete years ago.
I’m genuinely interested to learn why such a poorly performing product retains such loyalty amongst a tiny minority.
Auntie Beeb says Nigel is a cunt, see it for yourself 🙂
link to tinyurl.com
BT/NO Organisations acted illegally. The finances do not add up. BT illegally influenced the result. BT bought the Referendum result (including with Public money) illegal under GE rules. BT broke the rules. The referendum result is null and void. Legitimate grounds and concerns for another Referendum to be held. NO supporters also broke the Purdah rules.
@Cheryl says: 14 May, 2015 at 10:55 am:
“Many Celtic supporters aren’t hacked off with the BBC purely because of football coverage.”
Oh! Get real! I used to never miss a game, home or away, of the team I supported. Then after becoming disabled I had to rely upon TV or radio for following the team. It soon became clear the broadcasters and MSM had little interest in any other than the Auld Firm.
Now the situation is that Radio coverage still over represents those two and the comical coverage with the crazy, shouty, interrupting each other coverage now offered by radio on one station and the Auld firm teams game on the other is killing Scottish football.
On TV we get English games live on Saturdays and nothing of Scottish football except on one channel with Gaelic commentary. Like everything else the UK is killing off Scottish culture and is attempting to kill off the Country of Scotland. In fact it thinks it has already done so
Look at the new Government’s SoS for Scotland – he is on record as saying in public, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.
Only in the UK could the Establishment appoint a Secretary of State for Scotland who believes Scotland no longer exists.
Almannysbunnet
That should have the UKIP eyes spinning (more than normal)
Jim Mitchell
Read the Torquil piece and I wouldn’t say he has flipped as such. I think he is just realising that the SNP might actually achieve some of their goals and get the credit for it. Thus rendering Labour more or less redundant.
1)The BBC won the referendum for the no vote. Our enemy number one. 2)If Rangers are the same club pay your debtors. They can’t, as that would definitely end the club. Old Rangers do not exist. You cannot have it both ways.
I’m currently reading George Ponsonby’s new book “How the BBC stole the referendum”. It’s excellent. My original reservations after having read the preview chapters that inadequate editing was going to make it difficult to read were unfounded, as I’m not noticing an inordinate number of typos or infelicities in the printed version.
I recall much of the stuff he describes from when it happened, from the disgraceful posturing about the release of Megrahi in 2009 to the unwarranted attacks on Stewart Stevenson over the unforecast massive snowfall in 2010. A fair bit more, though, is stuff I didn’t notice at the time.
Of course the BBC will reject the accusations, as usual, but it’s immensely powerful to have all this in a single book, building up a compelling picture of partisanship and one-sided spin. Highly recommended, go get your copy.
Celtic fans have had a problem with the BBC for as long as Archie MacPherson existed.
BBC Scotland has let Scottish sport including football down terribly. It really is a disgrace.
I find the coverage of sport in the National refreshing, covering the minority sports with good, well written articles, not pish like on the red tops.
But then again BBC Scotland has let everyone down – except Jim Murphy and his SLABers.
I like this survey in all of it’s forms. It proves that something isn’t right with our publicly based broadcaster and it’s got to the point that people are unwilling to pay for it.
Stu, do you have a further survey as to the shape of the future broadcaster if there was to be one?
From my own personal point of view, I’d like to see a broadcaster which is balanced and fair and perhaps needs a body to look at political slants in it’s broad sense to allow for people to remain informed but not hide the facts or distort them as has been the norm for so long with the current BBC. Offcom is not fit for purpose so it needs to go too.
If there is no such survey .. what would you like to see?
@G4 Jeepers
Your uncle? Your Big Brother, surely?
ITV reports SNP MPs causing mischief at Westminster already! Hee Hee Hee!
Cmon ah wee easy challenge tae the WOS Hinterrnet Ferrets, the FMs want’s to sign the Keep Jim Murphy letter,Dug dales no gonna provide it for her,go fetch Lads N lasses.
Bryan Wier says@ 10.24
“you are a servant of those who pay your wages.”
Way to go banana heels!
what have you done with the format rev, its different?
Understanding the SNP victory;
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
@Marcia says: 14 May, 2015 at 11:36 am:
“The BBC have this article on the spending of political parties during the Referendum. What are BT hiding?”
Oh!, Marcia, that’s a long, long list you ask for. The BBC, Civil Service, MSM and CBI, would probably head that long, long list.
Read “London Calling. How the BBC stole the referendum” by GA Ponsonby.
BBC Scotland will have lost a lot of imperial master support in London after SNP winning as they did. Red/blue tory Westminster will be asking big/small questions, did they screw up so badly because they’re crap broadcasters, is the whole BBC Scotland shebang making it even worse for unionism in Scotland, how can we make it much more politically powerful without making the SNP more popular?
BBC Scotland sports coverage really stinks though. Look at how Andy Murray gets treated. From Dunblane, Scotland, Murray’s the greatest athlete ever produced by teamGB and BBC Scotland cover him like he’s a quite good nonentity.
The end is nigh BBC Scotland britnats.
Jim’s Daily Record link…archived.
link to archive.is
Marcia-hmm..don’t think I agree with Mr Eichhorn.Many factors can be attributed to the landslide plus I think a substantial number feel cheated after what transpired after the vote. To say there is no rise in nationalism is false.
A good friend of mine, an associate in Justice for Megrahi, works for BBC Scotland in a relatively rank-and-file position. He was for Yes in the referendum, and he told me that about 80% of his colleagues in the ordinary bread-and-butter roles were the same. They were quite upset by the slant of the coverage, and by the vilification of the BBC this was engendering.
He looked quite upset when I revealed that I’d been on the Pacific Quay demonstration in September, and that I’d stopped paying my licence fee. But what else can one do? I appreciate that people don’t want to put their jobs at risk, but the BBC has destroyed our country, at least in the short term.
Looks like Slab are employing the same disruption tactic in Hollyrood laying down questions & not appearing ( Sarah Boyack & Cara Hilton) Public dressing down next week Mrs Marwick.
I found the football analysis interesting and relevant. When door knocking it was typically the younger, male, working class resident who was the most pro Indy/SNP. Then there’s the Celtic and rangers Facebook page supporting Indy which was significant. I’d say this is the one demographic that the establishment would be fearful of getting their dander up about politics. Can you imagine all that raw energy going into a protest march instead of the terraces?
More informed posters could put me right but after the bbc solidly backed the union and with the demise of a labour party that’s Tory lite then maybe the Tories sabre rattling at the beeb is just bluster? Auntie did an excellent job for the union and no doubt will do the same in the future. Another red Tory body being out manoeuvred by the blue Tories?
How’s this for a classic from Willie Rennie as reported in today’s Metro. After Alex was appointed foreign affairs spokesman he said it was “like putting Mr Bean in charge of the world bank!” Look in the mirror ya fud!
Here’s the BBC Licence scenario.
If you have a TV ‘capable’ of receiving live TV as broadcast by the BBC you have to pay for ‘making use of such broadcasting’.
The operating principle ‘making use of’ thereby makes any TV owner liable to pay the BBC, a fee founded by Lord Reith on a need to cover the cost of the PBS.
But, if you have a TV that is never switched on, there is clearly no need to pay the TV licence. Or, if you declare that you never watch BBC live transmissions and thereby do not ‘make use of’ the BBC’s product it therefore, becomes a moot point.
That then depends on the TV owner/viewer being witnessed watching BBC transmissions live and as such, then to be acting illegally.
If you have cancelled your TV Licence through the TV Licensing Authority, the matter is accepted and you will be refunded for any outstanding licence money already paid beyond that date.
Simply put, you had a contract with the BBC through the TV Licensing Authority, which you have terminated and perhaps may even have given reason for doing so. They in turn have reminded you of the legal requirements and if any cash refund is due it will happen, so the contract is ended.
So, matter finished? No.
Your name and address is passed to Consignia to verify that you are indeed not ‘making use of’ live TV as broadcast by the BBC, but the question now is, just how this can be done?
It can only be proven that you as the TV owner acted illegally if it is witnessed that a live BBC TV broadcast was being received on your premises.
This clearly cannot be done without getting entry into your home and only then with your explicit permission. Or, by some electronic means (TV detector van anyone), which brings recorded evidence of such. Has anyone seen this system in operation or seen it challenged anywhere?
Consignia is a private company which operates on a results system. It is not TV Licensing. It is not the BBC. Consignia has absolutely no rights to demand answers from you, or gain entry to your home. If Consignia appear at your door, say nothing to them, close the door, as you would with any non-welcome caller.
The sheer absurdity of this process makes you shudder. How can people be intrigued into a system which has no functional repeal format apart from the BBC Trust’s laughable poodle role and for it to be legal/illegal is little less than a gross public affront.
If there is a case for the BBC, or in Scotland’s case, a new SBC let’s see it scrutinised, warts and all and have an ethically and morally public broadcast operator that’s fit for purpose.
@Robert Kerr 9.07
Robert is correct. As part of the British/Irish 1998 Peace Agreement (or Good Friday/Belfast Agreement) the UK Government undertook to enact a more detailed version of the Human Rights Act in NI to ensure that traditional areas of discrimination were explicitly covered – housing, language, sexuality etc.
This is an internationally registered agreement – but this does not seem to have troubled the Torys too much.
Human Rights is one of many aspects of the 1998 Peace Agreement that has been suppressed by the Torys with a view to keeping the DUP happy in case their votes will be required in Westminster.
The 1998 agreement expressly committed London to incorporating the European Convention on Human Rights into Northern Ireland law, providing direct access to the courts and allowing judges to overrule Northern Assembly legislation on grounds of inconsistency with human rights law.
Failure to do this results in all sorts of on-going trouble.
For instance I have just won a case with the Freedom of Information Tribunal where DUP Minister Arlene Forster was refusing to disclose emails in which her SPAD was instructing DETI (Dept of Enterprise, Trade and Investment) and the NI Tourist Board to suppress bi-lingual signage in my Councils area. Using questions to the Minister in the local regional Assembly (Stormont) we have exposed the Minister as wasted £16,500 on legal fees trying to prevent disclosure of her illegal actions in this matter.
My Council, and other Councils in NI were threatened with losing 100’s of 1000’s of NITB funding if they did not comply with the DETI prohibition on Gaelic.
Because the Torys have reneged on the 1998 agreement with regard to incorporating the Human Rights Act AND the EU Directive on Minority Languages into NI law – this campaign will drag on for years rather than being a straightforward Judicial Review.
Of course the Government does not apply HR to the security services here. They have set up an off-shoot of MI5 in Bangor just North of here. These goons are busy recruiting gullible young people into pseudo-dissident republican organisations that can be presented as a danger to the security of the state, justifying additional expenditure on the security services. So they now control BOTH the Loyalist AND the Republican paramilitaries and have a nice little war-game to play on their PC’s every morning when they come to work.
I have been a member of the Down policing committee for some years after the local police force was reorganised per the Peace Agreement. New officers have to take an Oath not to the Queen as previously – but with respect to human rights. If you look at this link you will see how the police in NI are now required to follow Human Rights to the letter link to psni.police.uk . Thus abolishing the HR act has all sorts of implications here.
This means, for instance, that it is no longer legal for the police to be involved in extra-judicial killings (if it ever was). One result of the 1998 adoption of the HR act was that about 500 special branch operatives joined MI5 in Bangor where they are beyond the HR Act.
Welcome to the twilight zone . . . .
Scotland needs its own Scottish Broadcasting Service (SBS), whether by license or advertising.
This SBS could concentrate its news, public affairs, documentaries, nature, arts, entertainment, sports, etc. programmes to reflect the realities in Scotland.
All of these subjects have great potential to not only attract audiences, but also create a surge of interest and inspiration and, ultimately, employment. It could well lead to an explosion of creativity as the talent and ability is already there having been left ignored and nascent by the English-culture-bias of the present UK broadcasting institutions – a Scottish Renaissance, if you will.
In fairness, the BBC does have BBC Alba and as a Gaelic-speaker myself it has shown some excellent programmes at times: documentaries of issues in other countries; history (not only of Scotland), real Scottish crime stories, culture (not only Scottish); music (not only Scottish); the news from a Scottish perspective; an excellent roundup of European news (not based on only disasters or some such from the mainstream media); and etc.
That BBC Alba can produce decent material for Gaelic-speakers (with English subtitles), a language that, unfortunately, only 1% of the Scottish population speaks, shows that a Scottish-based broadcasting service for the *whole* Scottish population would be an extremely viable product.
The sooner Scotland rids itself of the BBC and has something like an SBS the better – for the country, for the people and for the regard of self-worth of all.
The Rev spending your money knocking football fans. What small minded arseholes these staggers are.I will not be visiting this site again. Fucking journalists your all tye same.
It is not just the BBC that is a Unionist organisation, it is also the ITV, and virtually all the printed media and most of the Radio.
Or am I missing something, like when on North Sound Radio News they referred to the Yes voters as Separatists?
Journalists are lazy and will print and broadcast what they’re sent by the familiar and long-established and presumably still extant press officers of SLAB and the London end of the party. No adverts on the forthcoming SBC please. Let’s crowd fund it.
Without doubt, we have all lost faith in the editorial line pursued by the BBC nationally and in particular the Scottish outpost at PQ.
No-one can quibble that outwith their news & current affairs departments, the BBC generally are responsible for some of the greatest productions be it in drama, documentary, music and dare I say, large occasion events.
But outwith the entertainment sphere, we cannot continue to have a significant information conduit such as this, one which undoubtedly helps formulate public opinion through instant and immediate access, pumping ‘its’ skewed agenda into our homes.
As we see in many cases across the viewer spectrum (not least the poll above), the BBC is patently working against and out of tune with the general public mood. Matters are then finally compounded in the current set-up which leaves us with no means of satisfactory redress, but regardless, ‘forced’ via license fee to accept it.
To state the bleedin obvious: public service broadcasting is in dire need of being devolved and answerable closure to the people it purports to serve.
I am totally with @Grouse Beater’s comments at 8:25 am
And going slightly O/T
Have I become oh so cynical, but…
Is the price of ermine now a £10m donation for a multi-storey car park, used as a diversionary tactic to obscure one’s meddling in the Indy debate with regards to remaining oil potential in favour of the ‘No’ persuasion?
i am not sure about the tories trying to kill of the BBC,
maybe restructure it ,Dave has probably got some fat cat
siting in the wings waiting for the job after giving the
tories lots of cash,just wait its always the same ,jobs for
their friends with a nice big tax payer salary.
Besides who would tell all their lies oops i mean propaganda
payed for by us the tax payer,nah Labour might be that
daft but the tories arnt, this is just a discrediting move imo
to sweep away the old BBC regime and replace it with their own.
Every football fan has a problem with the BBC, from Aberdeen regularly being last on the highlights show (which is supposed to be reserved for the worst games) to Celtic fans thinking Chick Young is a rangers fan, to rangers fans thinking that Celtic get favouring coverage applied to them, Dundee Utd fans think Spence defends the Thomson family, during the hearts sagas, they used to say the BBC had a vendetta against Romanov…..
It’s nothing new, not sure why folk are getting upset about stu’s position, he is only stating what is supposed to be the norm re rangers, they are supposed to be regarded as a new club….BUT THE BBC DON’T REPORT THEM PROPERLY….lol
I see that the comment thread format has changed. Wonder if that’ll sort the delayed posting issue …
That’ll be a “No” then. Still living in hope 🙂
Good stuff Stu.
Would love to see the BBBC brought to heel but doubt very much they will be. They helped put Cameron back into power and up here they are a vile propaganda unit for the unionists. Especially LIEbour. These buggers are finished and they still get on the screen telling us they are ” gonna change and listen to voters this time ” honest!! AYE RIGHT.
As for the moaning about The Rangers. get a grip for goodness sake. have you conveniently forgot George SQuare last years. or how about Manchester or Newcastle of ANYWHERE they go. they are an embarressment to us all . if you don’t like what you see Feck off some where else. You support a team who use sectarianism and anti-Scots rhetoric every bloody day.
Whinging saps . Chuck it about but moan that they are picked on ??? feck off.
How anyone can support that lot .
I know quite a few ex Rangers fans who hate what they stand for and have given up. They are a unionst tool.What would they have done if we had won the YES vote ?
Jim Mitchell says ‘Torcuil has finally flipped his lid completely!’
Torcuil Chrichton is the same breed of animal as Jim Murphy: an extremely nasty, cunningly manipulative narcissist.
I bought the DR every day, on the lead up to the Referendum, to monitor the biased content of the articles. And was it biased! Hellishly so with Torcuil Chrichton (and Clegg) leading the way.
He constantly used manipulative tactics such as ‘someone close to the Government told me’ when you knew that ‘someone’ was Torcuil talking to himself. This progressed (or regressed) to an all time journalistic low of having a little bird pass him information about an incident that took place (not) at the Commonwealth Games last year ….. ”a wee burdy told me that Prince Philip snubbed Alex Salmond yesterday by refusing to shake his outstretched hand”. Strange that not one of millions of viewers witnessed this at all. Just a ‘wee burd’. Maybe it was his pal Jackie?
However you can see that he was attempting to use the Royal Family to undermine Alex Salmond / the SNP. I’ve often wondered how many people he actually managed to dupe by using such tactics.
And as to BBC Scotland’s coverage of Scotland’s sport…!
Scotland’s most popular sport, football, has been reduced to an almost minority status. Matches played (mostly) on Saturdays are shown on Sunday night – and that’s an improvement considering they used to be shown, ridiculously, on a Monday night!
The matches are televised as often as not by one camera, with a behind-the-goal camera sometimes used in the ‘bigger’ games. Goals are shown and a few minutes (or, as often, less than) of action. The commentary is anodyne.
Then to the studio, where bland presenter has bland discussions with bland guests (honorable exceptions given to Michael Stewart and Pat Nevin) which is used as filler between the ‘action’.
Graphics to show how moves developed, offsides were fractional, a player’s influence in a game, and etc…? No chance!
It is a poor, shabby presentation of Scotland’s national sport which, in turn gives the opinion of the Scottish footballing scene as being third-rate and unworthy.
And now Match of the Day: Gary Lineker on millions to present. Regular guests also doing well financially. Matches viewed from multiple cameras. Up-to-the-minute graphics on screen and at the touch of a button. Lots of promotion and aggrandizing given to the EPL. And etc.
Yes, the Scotland branch can only do what it can from the dosh it receives from its bosses in London, but Scottish households pay the exact same license fee to have the BBC transmitted into their homes at threat of prosecution after all.
Get a Scottish Broadcasting Service (SBS). Spend money on a sports department (that shows not only football). Show the games on the night they have been played. Give a much more professional presentation. Use modern graphics (Dundee has graduates with exellent computer skills). ‘Big up’ Scottish football instead of maligning and rubbishing it. Make kids want to play the game again. Most importantly, give the game back to the people.
The problem with Rangers is you need to define whether you’re talking about the team or the company. It’s definitely the same team, which is all most reasonable fans give a shit about. The company, however, is a whole different kettle of fish but only really has a bearing on how the rules of membership of the SPL etc went. For instance the present company is being treated as sufficiently a successor to the original company and liable for any debt. Meanwhile lurking in limbo you have the original company which has yet to be wound up and which no-one with an ounce of sanity would consider buying until it’s tax liabilities are decided. If that ever happens it’s entirely possible that you’d see it being bought by the new company for a minimum cost and merged.
A point worth remembering is that, in part, this all came about because HMRC attempted to change the law regarding when tax became liable on future earnings. Partly on a tightening of the law on foreign income. Mainly on them needing a high profile example in order to threaten other teams into compliance. Ironic that what might be seen as the team supported by mostly unionist fans in Scotland is so expendable as far as WEstminster is concerned.
Can i try and educate the (oh no, football, lets no go there) dissenters.
This site, WOS, is first and foremost concerned about exposing the truth behind the lies, myths, propaganda and general bullshit the UK media feeds us 24/7.
For a great many football fans, especially in places such as west central Scotland, football, politics and religion are very much intricately intertwined. I know, in theory, it shouldn’t be but i’m afraid to say that is the reality. So get real and accept that fact.
Ignoring it or pretending otherwise will not make it go away and remember the old saying – all it takes for evil to flourish is for good folk to do nothing.
Now, remember what i said about this sites main reason for existence and couple that with another inescapable fact – the media in Scotland, without exception, have been repeatedly helping to promote a fraudulent lie for the past 3 or 4 years. They have, under orders, been promoting a corrupt football organisation as the very same one which existed prior to their liquidation.
I, like the vast majority of folk on WOS, contribute, financially and hopefully intellectually, in the hope that the Rev will expose all the bullshit we are being fed. I don’t like football either, Boxing and Swimming are my preferred sports, but i want and expect the Rev to be exposing all sorts of media bullshit, especially now that we can afford to lighten the mood a bit with our major election success.
WOS is not just about politics, it’s about exposing the truth behind the 24/7 UK media bullshit.
The article above is, as anyone can clearly see, mainly about the BBC but some folk are hell-bent on trying to make it out to be something its not. Wake up and smell the coffee, as they say.
As for the BBC, i’m sick and tired of some of its supporters when they trumpet the old PISH that it’s the best in the world etc etc etc. Oh, really, put it to subscription and we’ll put your nonsensical drivel to the test shall we.
Granted, i’ve always felt that the BBC has almost always done natural history/wildlife documentaries very well but that does not justify anyone forcing me, by law, to pay for it. That decision should be entirely down to my choosing. After-all, you wouldn’t expect the strangers in front of you at the cinema to pay for your tickets, would you.
I object very strongly to being forced to pay for a foreign governments propaganda facility to lie to and deceive me 24/7. I object to being forced to contribute to an organisation which has supported several paedophiles, and that’s just the ones we know about. I object to being forced to contribute to the salaries of its staff, people who are determined to play their part in the destruction of my country and the emasculation of its people. I object to this foreign governments mouthpiece not being answerable to my countries government. The list is endless.
Boycott the BBC licence fee and shut the b@st@rds down.
jock wishart says:
“…I will not be visiting this site again. Fucking journalists your all tye same.”
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! ROFLMAO!
Where I live is it physically impossible for a detector van to get near to my house without being seen by myself and all of my neighbours.
They’d have a very long wait to catch my missus “accidentally” watching EastfuckingEnders.
I’ve had the pleasure of reading the Rev’s investigations and insights for a couple of years now. Trolls apart comments have been informed, witty and always open to challenge, comment, agreement and disagreement.
It has been fascinating that when we touch on football a new atmosphere of defensiveness, partisanship and almost insult creeps out.
The Rev related football to politics via a poll to take the temperature of that particular cohort of voters.
That’s all.
Put a plaster on your raw nerves, after all “It’s only a gemme”. ( Mind you I speak as one at the France gamein Paris when McFadden scored the glorious winner!)
Some folk are so touchy.
What on earth is a “stagger”?
mogabee
Is that not a Ross County fan?
It might have also been interesting to ask the same question if the state broadcaster were devolved. For example, I cancelled my licence in September, and now get my news/entertainment elsewhere. I would not pay the BBC another penny, however if there were a publicly-funded state broadcasting service for Scotland, I’d probably be happy to pay for a licence.
Barontorc wrote:
“It can only be proven that you as the TV owner acted illegally if it is witnessed that a live BBC TV broadcast was being received on your premises. This clearly cannot be done without getting entry into your home and only then with your explicit permission. Or, by some electronic means (TV detector van anyone), which brings recorded evidence of such. Has anyone seen this system in operation or seen it challenged anywhere?”
I know it’s not quite what you were looking for but see how this guy dealt with the snoopers.
link to youtube.com
🙂
And another thing, you’re not allowed to say this out loud in the mainstream media in UK but the truth is that Dr Who is actually rubbish, a low budget children’s programme. The best thing about it is the hype, even Malcolm Tucker couldn’t make the cheesy script sound decent. BBC Emperors new clothes telly. Shhh, don’t tell anyone, keep pretending it’s really really good.
Can’t wait till we get broadcasting devolved as apparently Ruth Davidson says we won’t get Dr Who any more.
It’s not ‘false’ Joe. You just don’t agree with him, two different things.
What he’s pointing out is valid. There has been overwhelming ‘rhetoric’ from the losers after the GE result that this ‘dangerous’ nationalism is at the heart of the SNP’s rise. They have shoe horned this narrative to ‘frighten’ the electorate and created division by doing so. It’s no accident that they have done this. They, the press and the SNP’s opposition have used this repeatedly: accusing Scotland’s people of ‘going mad’ as well as insinuating ‘nazi’ overtones and undertones, by choosing the SNP as our representatives. They employed this throughout the referendum over and over again.
The have by turns insulted, demeaned and painted us as ‘nationalists’ in a pejorative sense.
And all because they have feasted upon and distorted that word that the SNP has in the middle of Scottish and Party: ‘National’.
I wonder if, way back in time, the people who sought to find a means to address the blatant unfairness in distribution of wealth and deliberate cultural marginalisation of those who lived in a country called Scotland, had chosen a different name for their ‘grouping’. Whether this pejorative use of the word ‘Nationalist’ would have any traction? It has proven to be fertile ground for those currently in opposition to any further autonomy or opposed to even a little more fairer and balanced distribution for our country. And this is why they ‘focus’ on it.
Perhaps they should have called themselves ‘The party that is willing to stand up for those in the country of Scotland’ or ‘The people’s party of the country of Scotland’ or ‘The party for people who think Scotland shouldn’t be marginalised and treated like shit by their so called unionists pals in other countries that make up that union’?
Doesn’t quite have the snappy and succint ring of SNP though.
We were never ‘nationalists’ as proscribed by those who have sought to malign us with that word as a means to retain their ‘party’s’ ‘top dog’ status in the hierarchy of the British State.
Ask anyone in America where they come from. And though they may say, Boston, or New York, they are always Americans. I come from Glasgow, and so will always be Scottish. If THAT’S what make me a ‘nationalist’ then America is one of the biggest nationalist countries on the planet.
Same applies in any country. But that’s not what I feel the author was driving at. He was tackling the notion of ‘nationalism’ within a tight context of ‘identity’ markers as defining ‘nationalism’ as the ‘reason’ for the rise in the SNP’s fortunes. He was stating that it wasn’t the reason for this, that it was the policies that the party are promoting and that this is at the heart of their success.
He has a valid point.
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
Stagger is a smooth guy who loves to party and play games like Russian Roulette.
He’s like the male version of Lady Gaga. He gets into a shit load of fights because he’s gets annoyed easily by stupid comments or people and their actions.
If you want to read the third one which I have not included. Be my guest!
link to urbandictionary.com
Interesting that Morgatron et al want the Tories to be even more vicious to the BBC – to the benefit of Mr Murdoch alone. Secessionists lining up behind Tory attacks on a public service – who’d have thought it?
So disliking the BBC isn’t just me then
Stoker says
”I object very strongly to being forced to pay for a foreign governments propaganda facility to lie to and deceive me 24/7.
I object to being forced to contribute to an organisation which has supported several paedophiles, and that’s just the ones we know about.
I object to being forced to contribute to the salaries of its staff, people who are determined to play their part in the destruction of my country and the emasculation of its people.
I object to this foreign governments mouthpiece not being answerable to my countries government. The list is endless.
Boycott the BBC licence fee and shut the b@st@rds down.”
Well said Stoker. The best part of Scotland is behind you on this.
You should initiate a petition.
Very well said stoker,I have never in my natural life paid the TV licence fee and I don’t plan to until broadcasting is 100%devolved to our government and it’s a new broadcaster called SBC or wings over Scotland news,at least that way I know I’m not being fed bullshit.
@Podmore
Its not a public service, we are forced to pay for it. It is not even means tested and the Government makes it free to the over 75s. Panem et circenses, except now they are stealing the panem.
What about this then! 🙂 Geez!
link to news.stv.tv
link to irvinetimes.com
Fond farewell from SLabour in Irvine. How many BBC liggers would love to to do the same and go and get proper jobs too?
Are you still here, Will Podmore, so called communist, campained against Scottish Independence because you thought your English communist movement needed Left wing Scotland on its side, now instead of following our Nordic style social democracy Scotland is faced with a far right neoliberal, Americanised future.
Hope you’re satisfied, Podmore, does it delight you that Scotland is governed by right wing extremists that less than 15% of us voted for?
I’m still unsure why you hang about here, hoping to convert us all to your vision of a communist England, are you? LOLZ.
for those who are going no fiba again i have one word
Demographics
look it up you will be seeing a lot of them as we need the
information so we can target whats left of the swing vote
with our message, and to do that we need to profile them
which Stu has done a bloody good job off here,no voters that
dont like the BBC,Rangers/Celtic fans that dont like the BBC
these groups have a common ground with us and could be open to listening.
The problem with what we did is that we no longer have a vast
populace to convert ,we have always been the runners up ,well
that has changed and now we will need to target demographics
if we want that 55% or more.
Dal Riata says:
14 May, 2015 at 12:45 pm
Scotland needs its own Scottish Broadcasting Service (SBS), whether by license or advertising.
I agree and that would be the best way forward. perhaps it’s time for us to push for an SBS formally?
Whatever else happens please do not accept funding through advertising. That just makes them a corporate mouthpiece: we have enough of that
@heedtracker
That was a bitter man… full of his self entitlement! With only his meagre pension to sustain him in the future too. 🙂
How’s the other 39 getting on?
The BBC is great, but there will always be those who complain about it.
Those on the right say it is too left wing…those on the left say it is too right wing…
And then there is that whole conspiracy theory/excuse about the referendum “bbc was biased…”
Well, you can’t please everyone.
Heedtracker, whit an obnoxious little man he is. Well shot of…people of Irvine are.
Scottish football, which by any reasonable measure, is a small minority sport. Despite its poor audience penetration it seems to asymmetrically attract a vociferous sub group of alcohol inspired racists, bigots & hooligans.
And consequently, with the illogical & unintentional help of widespread media coverage, provides a platform for people who chose to express a peculiarly colloquial & particularly nasty invective, usually at each other but indeed at anyone who might highlight this repugnant social phenomenon.
Would it be so bad that our society choses to isolate & eventually snuff out this regretful sub culture by minimising it wherever possible, starting with the media which often by accident, acts as an amplifier of this socially divisive behaviour?
Finally, when A&E wards continue to be swamped on a weekly basis by the physical manifestations of this dysfunctional behaviour, any attempt to understand this sub culture’s attitude towards the BBC for example, does seems rather misguided, futile & pointless.
northen england now wants to be part of scotland.
link to manchestereveningnews.co.uk
#TakeUsWithYouScotland
Call me dave
Thanks for Daisley piece. Good fun. Nothing bitter.
He obviously likes what Stu does. Amazing, with all these naps!
‘May, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Scottish football, which by any reasonable measure, is a small minority sport. Despite its poor audience penetration it seems to asymmetrically attract a vociferous sub group of alcohol inspired racists, bigots & hooligans.
And consequently, with the illogical & unintentional help of widespread media coverage, provides a platform for people who chose to express a peculiarly colloquial & particularly nasty invective, usually at each other but indeed at anyone who might highlight this repugnant social phenomenon.
Would it be so bad that our society choses to isolate & eventually snuff out this regretful sub culture by minimising it wherever possible, starting with the media which often by accident, acts as an amplifier of this socially divisive behaviour?
Finally, when A&E wards continue to be swamped on a weekly basis by the physical manifestations of this dysfunctional behaviour, any attempt to understand this sub culture’s attitude towards the BBC for example, does seems rather misguided, futile & pointless.’
Are you on the wind up?
A small minority sport? Most people in Scotland play it/have played it/watch it. I include women in that. Who you have quite clearly forgotten about.
Here we go again with the all football fans are racist and bigoted. Seeing as how you like to back up your support for independence with facts, why don’t you back up your slandering of a huge section of Scottish society with facts. How many racists, how many bigots, how many alcoholics go to games etc. Amount of arrests at football games? How many families now go to games?
And if we are to believe that A&E wards up and down Scotland are swamped by football fans or victims of football fans, why then is nothing reported about this phenomonon? Again, back it up with facts?
I’ve commented on here before about commenters views regarding football fans, it is not us who are backward and stuck in the 70’s.
Stadiums aren’t filled with thousands of hooligans, nor are they racists, nor are they bigots, in fact you’ll find going to a football game today pretty boring if what you are used to is thousands of racist hooligans pissed up and running amok.
The attendee’s of football matches these days are there for the football and some banter, if you can’t get your head round that, then I’d appreciate if you just didn’t bother commenting.
I’m amazed to read such an ignorant and stupid comment from a supposedly forward thinking progressive (yes voter).
Pleased to see that the Holyrood committee has unanimously agreed that the Westminster Smith Commission proposals fall short of what was agreed in Smith and that the Vow has not been honoured.
Mundell wittering nonsense on more powesr but then he is hardly an honest broker on devolution. His views on the dissolution of Scotland in 1707 are well known.
Well, one of the benefits of the new format is that the date and time link is now at the start of the post, rather than the end.
Which means, when you paste a link to a comment in a post, you see the start of the comment, rather than the start of the one following it.
10/10!
Dan Hodges in the Spectator: Inside the Millibunker: the last days of Ed. When I archived this the article had an altered headline: Did Ed Milliband sacrifice Ed Balls?
Seems to be the same in every other way apart from the title change.
They really were delusional…lot of anger now coming out.
link to archive.is
@handandshrimp:
Yeah, given Mundell’s views re Scotland’s existence, shouldn’t he be called the Secretary of State for Brigadoon?
I just had to pull this out of that article I just posted:
‘Another Labour insider told of the scene in the press office when Miliband posed with the notorious Ed stone, the 8ft 6in slab of limestone upon which his six key election pledges were inscribed. When it appeared on TV, a press officer ‘started screaming. He stood in the office, just screaming over and over again at the screen. It was so bad they thought he was having a breakdown.’
Hilarious! What a bunch of numpties…how could they NOT know this was ridiculous! I love these aftermath stories, were some of the ‘thick of it’ parallels are so astonishing in their accuracy.
katherine hamilton says:
” Put a plaster on your raw nerves, after all “It’s only a gemme”. ( Mind you I speak as one at the France gamein Paris when McFadden scored the glorious winner!)”
I was there too katherine, in amongst the French. At the end, we couldn’t get out of our row, indeed the stadium, without shaking hands with every single one of our French ‘opponents’. I’ll never forget it, or McFaddens wonder goal ! Auld alliance indeed.
Can you imagine that happening at Wembley ?
14 May, 2015 at 1:30 Yes Guy -Well said totally agree.
Some Rangers fans think they can come on here and deny everything that surrounds that vile institution. This isn’t the soft BBC or Daily Record. We see the truth on here and speak the truth. If you don’t like the truth then don’t bother posting on here.
Come on here and be honest with us, yourself and the bigotry. We will then respect you. Come on here with lies, deceipt and denial and you will get it fired right backat you.
The only people hurting Rangers fans are themselves and the club. Give up the baggage and you will feel better for it. It’s liberating!
@ Petra, i wouldn’t know where to start with a petition, plus i feel they are a waste of time. To me they don’t carry the same sort of influence they used to unless there is some considerable political weight behind them, even then it is very doubtful whether or not a petition would achieve anything. During the referendum someone on ‘Newsnet’ submitted a 25K+ (?) signature petition as part of their Smith Commission submissions, it was ignored like most of the others.
@ ags_1888, nor do i and nor will i. I don’t watch any tv guff as it is being shown. I mostly listen to music via the radio and get most of my films, documentaries and dramas from other sources such as Netflix. Hell would freeze over before i paid into the BBC.
@heedtracker says: 14 May, 2015 at 12:29 pm:
“BBC Scotland sports coverage really stinks though. Look at how Andy Murray gets treated. From Dunblane, Scotland, Murray’s the greatest athlete ever produced by teamGB and BBC Scotland cover him like he’s a quite good nonentity.
You beat me to that, heedtracker.
Andy has just surpassed. probably even his own expectations, in the past couple of weeks and had hardly a cheep out of, not only the BBC, but the entire media. Today he has just said that he has played and won 10 top class matches with some of them with extremely late finishes so has pulled out of the rest of the tournament.
In his last match he beat Chardy 6-4 6-3: Chardy is ranked 38, so it was not in any way a walk over. 10 games in 14 days including beating Nadel in a final on Murray’s worst surface of clay is really top quality tennis.
However Andy has reached the same level in the eyes of the English based media as Scottish football. After reading out every English game result except English Primary school leagues it’s, “Oh! and by the way we believe there was a Scottish Cup final today, (long pause and sound of paper shuffling), Ha! Yes! Here it Is Hibs 14: Hearts 15, and a seagull scored the Hearts winner from a deflection. Sounds like a very uninteresting game. Here’s the English Cricket scores”.
Smarties Red/Blue/Yellow/Green ah dont give ah shit, there,s chocolate inside ah sugar coating.
Football/Religion/Politics ( whit fit dey you kick wie) I always answered wie baith feet & ah uas the heid. To many Idiots in every sphere that are given exposure in the Media. Divide & Control the population.
Feel the hackles rising that the issue of the BBC should be how and why its paid for. Our referendum was the biggest constitutional issue for our country in 300 years, if not ever, and yet our articulate, rational, and for the most part intelligent population were denied any dispassionate and objective breakdown of the true issues of a Nation’s self determination, and brow beaten again and again over periforal issues of no real significance.
Foremost in the subversion of the substantive arguments was the BBC and its hysterical and contrived agenda over currency denomination and oil prices.
The BBC is a propaganda machine which assumed undue prominance in our referendum preambles, and wholly inappropriate influence over its conduct and conclusion.
If our SNP representation in Westminster achieves nothing more than devolution of Broadcasting, then I would be satisfied.
Scotland should get rid of the BBC. We deserve something better.
The problem with the BBC is simply this; I can choose not to pay for the uber right wing, fox news-lite, crud called SKY, if I want. I cannot choose not to pay for the blatantly anti-Scottish, pro ‘British’ establishment, propagandist anti SNP crud called the BBC.
The sooner the television license goes, the sooner the BBC in Scotland will stop treating the people of Scotland, and their MAJORITY political perspective like sh*te.
@ Stoker
link to scottish.parliament.uk
Worth a look so you get to know the process.
I submitted a request for a petition to investigate the referendum result to no avail. Perhaps one on broadcasting would fare better, though you might get the standard reply of ” broadcasting is a reserved matter “
One way of ending BBC bias issue is making them subscription only like BSkyB tv or Channel 4 style ads.
link to bbc.co.uk
BBC are more or less perfectly aligned with all other UKOK media.
eg
Throughout their vote NO or else referendum campaign, Pacific Quay shills considered it perfectly acceptable to read out every vote NO or else newspaper headline, then the attack SNP/indy story, then each paper’s vote NO editorial. They took their own sweet time, morning, noon and night. Morning’s were the most heavily UKOK biased though. Probably down to which Britnat it is producing it.
All issues of state broadcaster attack bias end and if there are ads at the start of Eastenders, so what.
Flog off the BBC for a quid, let Bird and Brewer and all the rest work actually for a living.
Cameron has either lost it completely or is seeking confrontation with Scotland:
First the Human Rights Act under threat and now this:
link to snp.org
Responding to the ennoblement of Andrew Dunlop, and his appointment as the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Scotland, the Leader of the SNP Westminster Group Angus Robertson MP said:
“This appointment is a scandal. If one thing demonstrates how out of touch the Tories are, it’s the appointment as a government minister for Scotland of an unelected Lord who played a leading role in the imposition of the hated Poll Tax on Scotland.
“It is hard to believe that following the worst Tory result in a General Election in Scotland since universal suffrage that they could have fallen further in people’s estimation, but they just have with this appalling and anti-democratic appointment.”
ronnie anderson says:
14 May, 2015 at 3:41 ( whit fit dey you kick wie)
Agreed
I usually answered:” I kick bigots with both feet”.
OT. Brian Donohoe,defeated Labour MP for Irvine tells the good folk of his constituency to [BLANK] off. 🙁
The Irvine Times on-line today:-
“IRVINE’S former MP says he’s glad he can now tell his ex-constituents to “f*** off” – after they booted him out. Brian Donohoe made the shocking statement after he lost his Central Ayrshire seat by a 13,589 majority to Philippa Whitford of the SNP.”
Without mention ah name Whit um ah dain, Whit um ah dain. But have no doupt WE will keep the RED Tear Running Here.
Anither wan fur the collection Betty Boop lol.
Chalk,
I didn’t say all football supports are antisocial. I claimed the sport attracts a minority of bigots, racists & hooligans. Presumably it’s one of many reasons, alcohol purchase is prohibited at football matches.
Meanwhile,
Source: link to en.wikipedia.org
Average attendance of Scottish football’s 151 matches across 2014/2015 Premier League is 8,049. There are 12 teams which means typically, six matches might be played per week. So the weekly attendance is less than 49,000 across the whole country. That’s less than 1% of the population of Scotland that chooses to attend on a weekly basis, what some call, the ‘National Game’.
Since almost none of it is broadcast live on TV, presumably the remaining 99% are doing something else with their spare time?
But the best people to ask for data about antisocial behaviour in football at those tasked with solving it.
Always a good read when there’s no football on the telly is AN EVALUATION OF FOOTBALL BANNING ORDERS IN SCOTLAND, from 2011 which has plenty of data that reveals the level of violence amongst spectators.
Source: link to gov.scot
from which comes this football banning order….
Team supported, FBO and non-FBO groups
Numbers FBO?
Team……No…Yes…Total
Rangers…26….28….54
Celtic….11….21….32
Aberdeen..10….12….22
Hearts….16…..3….19
Hibs…….7…..4….11
Dundee…..3…..6…..9
Dundee U…2…..1…..3
Scotland…3…..0…..3
Other…..12….11….23
Total…..90….86…176
If there are any other sports in Scotland with similar banning order scoreboards, please advise.
One of the biggest problems with the BBC news coverage is that they take their “angle” from the papers.
Look at BBC news if some big story breaks after all the papers have been put to bed. What you see is a very timid, facts only style. Only when next morning’s papers have set the agenda does the BBC start expressing opinions, largely echoing the pree line.
As the UK/English papers are largely right wing, the result is obvious.
Similarly, in Scotland, given that most of the press was anti-independence, the resulting BBC coverage bias becomes clear.
The other factor is the BBCs pro-government bias. The BBC will tend to lean towards the views of whichever party forms the UK government. Holyrood isn’t taken into account as it has no authority over the BBC. To some degree this is understandable. Despite it’s much vaunted independence, in reality, the government controls both the BBCs purse-strings and it’s senior management and control.
Puir auld Auntie. I’m one of those who stopped paying her licence fee last year, really because the news coverage was making me physically gag. We literally locked our set away in a trunk and stopped watching live TV.
Via social media and catch-up – a bit hypocritical I know, but legal – I have accessed some BBC current affairs content and from what I can tell it’s got worse not better. STV / ITN are subject to the same rules but though I still perceive an anti-left, anti-independence bias it seems less marked. Sky is an insidious propaganda tool for Murodch. Channel 4 News wins kudos for being the most challenging and fair; certainly it is the only major outlet that is even worthy of the legal privileges and protections afforded our fourth estate.
Our human rights and legal protections for fair trial, access to legal representation, freedom of expression and much more have been under almost continuous assault first from the authoritarian Blair/Brown Government – remember the attempt to introduce 90 days detention? – and now from a venal Tory Government working solely on behalf of big business.
If our lightly regulated mainstream media and free press does not defend our freedoms then it is simply a tool of oppression.
@Barontorc says: 14 May, 2015 at 12:44 pm:
” … Or, if you declare that you never watch BBC live transmissions and thereby do not ‘make use of’ the BBC’s product it therefore, becomes a moot point.”
Whoa! There Barontorc, The TV Licence is NOT a licence to view ONLY the BBC TV live broadcasts. It is a licence to view ANY live TV broadcast in the United Kingdom from anyone, broadcasting from anywhere.
The problem you highlight is actually the totally wrong legal assumption, by the licence fee collectors, that if you have a TV that is capable of receiving transmitted live video broadcasts then you are guilty of doing so, whether you are watching them or not.
I have three TV sets – all connected by wire links to three computers, a PVR, an Xbox 360, a printer/copier/scanner, an old video tape machine and a video DVD player. There is also a portable video player that can be connected anywhere in that home network. none, though, are connected to an aerial so none can receive live TV broadcasts.
I had the usual hassle from the BBC until I threatened THEM with legal action for harassment and unproven accusations of being a law breaker. I also pointed out to them I was well over 75 and could thus claim a free licence but, as I loathed and detested the BBC, had no intention of ever funding their propaganda.
I have a nice polite letter from the people who collect on behalf of the BBC saying I would get no further trouble from them but to please inform them if I decided to again watch Live TV broadcasts. BTW: When I can get time I produce my own video programmes and I also have a large collection of old and newer classic films on either DVD, Blu-ray or even on hard disk. The older taped stuff is now on DVD/Blu-ray disks.
@GH Graham, actually FBO’s are usually obtained not by violence in stadiums but outside of them, miles away from stadiums.
Secondly, I’d advise you to look at the figures for those in Scotland that attend games across all the divisions as well as playing in the games themselves. You can’t just take the premiership figures, as you are arguing nationally, football is irrelevant, so take the national figures… once you have taken the attendance figures from all professional/semi professional/ amateur/junior/kids games then I’d ask you to utilise the FBO’s banning orders and work out the % of banning orders across scottish football compared with the attendances.
Again though, you are showing your ignorance, there is at least 1 game a week broadcast, not including scottish cup games or european fixtures.
From Junior level, Amateur level, Professional, kids games. School games, you name it, a high % of the population play the game or watch it or have watched it, including a high level of women.
It is not a minority sport, it is the biggest sport in Scotland, if football is a minority sport, then rugby, shinty, cycling, swimming etc etc are microscopic.
I’m a big fan of public service broadcasting – though not state (propaganda) broadcasting. The news & current affairs output of BBC Scotland has been atrocious for the past few years but let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Commercial broadcasting would not necessarily be any better and could actually be a lot worse. Look at the situation in the US, with Fox News etc.
The ideal situation would, of course, be Scotland having its own public service broadcaster (SBS), funded by public money and overseen by an independent and impartial body – and with an open and transparent and functioning complaints system! 😉
I don’t think broadcasting will ever be devolved to Scotland, it’s too important a tool for the UK state to give up.
One of the most obvious advantages of public service broadcasting (PSB) is the lack of annoying ad breaks. This also means no undue corporate big money vested interest, provided the PSB is regulated properly.
For me, as a Finn, speaking a language only about 5.4M speak in the whole world, the biggest advantage is having programmes made in our own language. Our PSB YLE is especially strong on children’s programmes but also domestic drama of the more experimental kind. Domestic commercial channels are required to broadcast Finnish-made programmes but often they lack the depth and daring of YLE programmes.
YLE news & current affairs is fairly OK, a bit of a lefty-greeny bias domestically, internationally they rely a bit too much on the BBC and other western PSBs. The coverage of the ScotRef was pretty much standard BBC fare – YLE correspondents are based in London and I was very disappointed that they didn’t make more of an effort to travel to Scotland and find out for themselves. Budget constraints or something… YLE’s long-time London (oops, UK) correspondent used to be this total anglophile “tory” guy, in thrall to the establishment. Thank god he retired several years ago!
YLE’s annual budget is about 500M euros (about £360M). For that, you get 4 full-time TV channels (one of them in Swedish) and a foreign satellite service showing a composite of the 4 domestic channels; 6 national radio channels (two of which are in Swedish), numerous local radios, and a full-time Sámi radio in Finnish Lapland broadcasting in Sámi – Sámi are an indiginous people living in Lapland (=northern parts of Norway, Sweden, Finland and the Kola peninsula in Russia). Their languages are related to Finnish but Finnish and Sámi languages are not mutually intelligible. The different Sámi languages are mutually intelligible (like Swedish and Norwegian are, or Dutch and German), and the Finnish, Swedish and Norwegian national public service broadcasters team up to provide Sámi TV news & current affairs plus cultural and other programmes – the sports includes reindeer racing! The daily Sámi news are broadcast on YLE’s main channel nationally.
Sorry to have gone on so much about the Sámi broadcasting but it’s my case in point. No commercial channel would ever undertake full-time broadcasting (radio) and daily broadcasting (TV) because the market is just too small. Yet this broadcasting service is vital for the Sámi, to have the news (local, domestic, international) brought to them in their own language, edited by other Sámi, not by someone in Helsinki or Stockholm or Oslo. The angle on Sámi news is often different from the standard YLE news.
(Guilty secret: I properly found out about YLE Sapmi and more Sámi things last year when this lovely, honest 23-yr-old Sámi reindeer herder won Big Brother Finland. He was so out of his depth with the metropolitan celebrity wanna-bees and the schemers and the false friends and bastards. He missed his home wilderness and relieved his home-sickness by yoik’ing (joiku, yoik, is traditional Sámi singing, very powerful and beautiful). The viewing publig loved him and voted him to win by the biggest marging ever in Finland’s Big Brother. He brought a lot of positive publicity to the reindeer-herding Sámis. I, of course, thought I knew much about the Sámi culture before, because I’ve trekked in the Lapland wilderness for years (you wild camp and might not see other humans for a week or two), but this young BB-winner made me realise I don’t know that much about their culture.)
Anyway, back on topic, public service broadcasting. YLE used to be funded with licence fees. I’m old enough to dimly remember separate radio licence fees and colour TV licence fees (black and white TV was cheaper). Then it was all just TV/radio licence, in 2012 that was 252 euros per year per location (home, another €252 for a possible second home – and a lot of Finns have summer cottages).
Since 2013, it’s YLE tax. Everybody over 18 is liable for YLE tax (public broadcasting tax) irrespective whether you actually have a TV set. This new earmarked tax is lower for most people. €50-€140 per person, low income people are exempt. My household (= me, a single person) pays a lot less than it used to be. I’m sure some well-off families pay more because the YLE budget hasn’t shrunk. Or maybe YLE is able to collect the money they missed out on with the old licence fee lark.
TV licence used to be a rite of passage. At 18, you got to vote and drink and get a driving licence. Nobody paid the TV licence until they were properly grown up. Finnish young people never opened the door to strangers, it might be the TV licence people! (They didn’t have the right to come in without a proper warrant but it was simpler to just not open the door.) I and my friends realised we’re properly grown up and boring adults when we started paying the TV licence, sometime in our mid- to late 30s. This rite of passage is now scuppered by the YLE tax, is taken off your earnings as PAYE, so no more dodging the licence fee inspectors. No more chances for a tiny subversion to the state, like we used to have.
Oh well, we pay the YLE tax (and so far it’s earmarked) and aren’t too fussed about it. We genrerally like YLE, it does a pretty good job, a lot better than BBC Scotland.
YLE used to have all the “nationally important” sport as well. A few years ago, YLE lost the ice hockey World Championships to a commercial channel. The commercial channel put it all behind a paywall and got so much wails and protests and – most importantly – bad corporate publicity that they’re now showing Finland’s games on freeview. Tonight Finland plays the Czechs in the quarter final. Finland has won 6 out of 7 games in the group stage, the Czechs have won 5 but it’s their home tournament. I’m getting a bit jittery.
Whatever happens, it won’t be like 1995 – the first time Finland won the ice hockey World Championship after trying for 60 years.
At least we – Finland – won it again in 2011 so we’re not like the English are with 1966. 😀
Sorry for the looooong post. [embarrassed smiley here] And thanks for anybody who actually read it all through.
Andrew Dunlop anybody?
Well this guy has just been appointed as “junior minister” at the Scotland Office
During the Independence Referendum was SPAD to David Cameron
During the introduction of the Poll Tax in Scotland he worked under (guess who) Margaret Thatcher
He’s just been given a peerage as well so will sit in the house of Lords
And this is David Mundell’s Assistant?
It’s pull the other one now folks this is called FU Scotland we’re in charge
@Jon King
Avatars and names have moved to be above posts instead of to the LH side. Presumably so you can enlarge on a phone/tablet to make the text more legible and still know who has written something.
Downside it means more scrolling but I think legibility over that is the right way to go.
English football related arrests and banning orders, season 2012-2013
The Top Ten
1. Newcastle United: 175 (Total arrests)
2. Manchester United: 145
3. Leeds United: 101
4. Manchester City: 95
5. Chelsea: 92
6. Nuneaton Town: 87
7. Sunderland: 71
8. West Ham United: 67
8. Millwall: 67
10. Wolves: 56
Anyone got the banning order rate or arrest numbers for Shinty?
Lawn bowls?
Cycling?
Ice hockey?
Swimming?
Kayaking?
F-1?
Tennis?
Topless volleyball?
Darts? Come on! There’s always loads of cheap booze at darts competitions?
The television licence covers all programmes that are watched as they are broadcast, irrespective of the signal method (terrestrial, satellite, cable or the Internet).
It does not just cover the BBC, it is not a BBC licence.
It is paid to Westminster,who in turn use some of the licence fee to produce the BBC.
The licence fee collection has been outsourced by Westminster to the firm `Capita`in a deal worth £560,000,000.
There is no BBC licence.
fred blogger says: Northen england now wants to be part of scotland.
link to manchestereveningnews.co.uk
#TakeUsWithYouScotland
Great! Hope this escalates and puts the wind right up Cameron et al.
Robert Peffers – as well as our football being an afterthought, they make no effort to get their facts correct. OK, maybe wrong to generalise, there are some decent sports reporters down south, one of them on Sky who I cannot remember the name of, treats Scottish football with respect. However, the other day was typical. Sky guy on the QoS-Sevco game reads out score as 2-0 to the inverted comma mob while caption correctly gives the score as 2-1. Happens regularly, Sky and BBC. They just cannot be bothered no matter how unprofessional it makes them look.
G H Graham – I believe Scotland has the highest attendances per head of population across Europe.
Robert Louis says:
14 May, 2015 at 3:43 pm
The problem with the BBC is simply this; I can choose not to pay for the uber right wing, fox news-lite, crud called SKY, if I want. I cannot choose not to pay for the blatantly anti-Scottish, pro ‘British’ establishment, propagandist anti SNP crud called the BBC.
The sooner the television license goes, the sooner the BBC in Scotland will stop treating the people of Scotland, and their MAJORITY political perspective like sh*te.
That is just not true. I do not pay a license fee and have never paid one. You do not have to pay it either. On exactly the same terms as you can choose not pay for Sky or Fox. Don’t pay and don’t watch. As it happens it is better than that for you do not need to pay to listen to BBC radio.
It is really absurd to pretend you are coerced. Please stop doing that
Humorous Taiwanese look at UK general election …
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It is absolutely vital to campaign for a truly independent public service broadcaster and should be one of the main priorities for SG. Otherwise we will continue in a lobotomised state as far as the MSM is concerned.This site and others should lead the way.
Social media is the new MSM for many readers now and is often the better informed because free debate, open communication and a collegiate approach to sharing information demarcates it from the highly controlled rather dull and predictable offerings from the BBC et al.
@ lumilumi
Well said!
Reading through all of the above threads, I am dismayed that I have missed some fine viewing this afternoon, courtesy of our state broadcaster.
First up was Are you Being Served, a ‘comedy’ set in a department store where the main topic of discussion is Captain Peacocks fascination with Mrs. Slocombes pussy.
This is followed by another ‘comedy’, ‘Allo ‘Allo. set in a cafe in occupied France during world war 2. The main theme is centred around the subject of ‘The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies’.
If you’re looking for an alternative to ‘comedy’, how about Escape to the Country, a programme about people with more money than sense, viewing expensive rural properties. My heart bleeds for them when the property they like is just above their million quid budget.
Not to be outdone, BBC2 offers Escape to the Continent, which reveals people with even more money and less sense. I have to admit to having watched these type of programmes when they first aired,but have yet to witness anyone actually buying any of the viewed properties.
As for later this evening we are spoiled for choice if politics is your thing. There’s Question Time hosted by Dimbleby, that pillar of….. eh I’ll let you decide, who’ll be joined by four or five politicians and some Z list celebrity who really shouldn’t give up their day job.
This is followed by Andrew Tory Neil and chums on This Week.
Don’t worry, the alternative on BBC2 is Scotland 2015 starring the bubbly Sarah Smith (providing her guests are slabbers).
Newsnight is next and it’s so long since I’ve watched it, I don’t even know if Ludovic Kennedy is still on it. Anybody help me out here?
In conclusion, what’s the address for cancelling the tax?
Dear Rev
… just to let you know I am keeping my head down today so as not to cause additional annoyance!
Stand Free with the SNP!
Threatening letter 23 from our Bias BBC ( unopened ) & will remain that way until I hand it back at next Demo at PQ.
Send a Fekin Court Summons ya Bass.That I will pay attention to with great delight.
It just continues, ronnie anderson. I have had literally hundreds of those letters. Ignore
BBC is rubbish for politics.
But it has some good things – live sport….
link to bbc.co.uk
hope it works.
There are folk whose announcement that they are not being an additional annoyance is an additional annoyance 😉
@ handclapping
Be fair. Either a troll is admitting he consciously trolling and, further, that he wishes to continue to do it.
Or billy no mates does not want to lose the attention he gets here
Either way, you know what to do
@ gerry parker (3.52pm).
Thanks for that link gerry but i’ve seen it previously when someone posted it several weeks ago.
Anyway, aye, as you said, that is exactly what they would tell me, broadcasting is reserved etc.
Lets hope the 56 achieve something substantial regarding this matter.
The current set-up is utterly unacceptable and has to be completely changed.
btw, Rev, thumbs up for the new and improved format.
😉
Noo, wit did ah dae wae yon bliddy sudoku book!
🙂
As per no no no….yes and Dr Jim’s comments: re Andrew Dunlop’s appt. as under secretary…this is not going down well, here’s hoping our contingent can do something about this…outrageous that this character should be placed in this position…totally insulting behaviour on the part of Cameron.
From the Guardian
link to archive.is
@k1.
I absolutely love the anonymous spokesperson’s comments at the end of that article
Dunlop “played a pivotal role during the referendum campaign, winning plaudits across the political spectrum.”
OK, which one of our SNP members gave this tube “plaudits”? Hands up, now: dont be shy.
Tell you what: which of you even noticed his activity during the referendum campaign. I freely admit: I didn’t know he was involved.
“It is great news for all those who genuinely want Scotland’s two governments to work well together to drive forward our economic recovery.”
If you have finished the crossword and sudoku you can amuse yourself by working out how many things are wrong with that sentence, too.
Where do they find these folk?
.. self preservation! I think the Rev might be on the edge today. Thankfully, nothing to do with me though.
Mundell and Dunlop.
The Governor General and his unelected assistant now in place to keep the Scottish colony in tow.
Don’t dare get above yourselves you Scots or the Governor General will call on his undoubted powers to slap you down.
They’ve done it already calling on the British Civil Service to interfere in the referendum and Frenchgate. Plotting against the elected majority is no doubt going on as I write. Stomach churning.
Scot Finlayson @ 4.50pm
The licence fee collection has been outsourced by Westminster to the firm `Capita`in a deal worth £560,000,000.
He he he. The fat cats in the corporate world always win. It’s a cash earner for these companies and their big burly men who try and collect the BBC license fee from a populace who don’t know their rights.
OK, so I’m a bit effed off about the scrapping of the licence fee in Finland, only for it to appear on my tax bill… You could dodge the licence fee – I did for about 20 years – but you can’t dodge YLE tax because it’s inculded in your general income taxation.
I don’t mind paying for a properly funded and regulated public service broadcaster (without ads and corporate interests).
I know many here on WoS “hate” BBC Scotland – and BBC Scotland was atrocious and in direct contradiction to their charter – but a public service broadcaster still is a better alternative to commercial, vested big business interest broadcaster.
So, please, no baby out with bathwater. Scotland needs a proper Scottish public service broadcaster. A broadcaster not beholden to Labour, not beholden to the party leaders or media luvvies in London, not some provincial afterthought.
Considering that after the referendum the Scottish electorate are the most aware and nouse-ist in the UK, maybe Europe or the world, the strategy of the Conservative, Labour and LibDems is just plain stupid. They want to deny the electorate have any sentient thougths because they voted wrong, for this [insert nazi abuse here] party that has pledged to do its utmost to do well for Scotland, and also reach out to lefty people/voters in England and Wales.
Oh no! The vile Scots! The democratic 56 is an affront to UK democracy, to the establishment running things their way. Those savages north of the border should have no say in how England is run. They all will probably have faces and arses painted blue. Savages, the lot of them. 😀
Too many people here grandstand on not paying the BBC tax when they’re actually talking about the voluntary BBC licence fee.
You do not have “BBC tax” yet. We in Finland now actually pay not a licence fee but a PAYE tax on our income (ringfenced to YLE) to support our public service broadcaster YLE. Maybe it’s because most Finns like YLE (and YLE is not as establishment-ridden and dinosaurian as the BBC) and don’t mind paying for it. YLE isn’t as propagandist as BBC (BBC Scotland especially) and most peple can cut through the most obvious bias. Nobody would want to scrap YLE because we all love “Pikkukakkonen”, YLY2’s children’s programmes.
Sorry for another long post but now I’ll go to the home studio/crowd for the ice hockey Wold Champs quarter final, FIN-CZE.
We happy clappy Nordics, we. Hrrrmph.
Yea Vince – this is getting very surreal. And extremely disturbing. I suggest people watch iplayer bbc Parliament the 13th of may and the Scotland’s fiscal commission.
@Rob James
Looks like you are urgently in need of the BBC Licence fee cancellation number – 03007906131.
Remember to tell them that you do not want any visits from Capita, etc. as you do not watch live TV anymore.
And then these nice BBC people will even pay any outstanding money back to you – Simples!
O/T
Just a little reminder about IndyLive’s funding appeal
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/going-forward–2
This unedited broadcasting keeps us informed so please help it to continue if you can
This is for wingers who do not follow football.
FMQs on I player,
The SNP are Barcelona and SLab are a very poor Dukla Pumpherston.
Max Wall put back in her box again by the FM.
@ Stoker.
No problem. You could always write to your MSP for advice on the wording of a petition. In John Wilson, I have an excellent regional MSP. Don’t know where you are located but If you bung your post code into
http://www.writetothem.com
it will list all of your representatives. If you don’t want to write to the constituency MSP for whatever reason, you can always write to one on the regional list.
They are there to help you after all and they’ll only know about our feelings if we make them known to them (although most of them read wings anyway 😉 )
@Stoker says: 14 May, 2015 at 3:27 pm:
” … i wouldn’t know where to start with a petition, …
Ah! Stoker, I know how to start a petition You can start here : –
link to scottish.parliament.uk
link to scottish.parliament.uk
And the reason you jalousie they are a waste of time is because most of them are a waste of time. There are, though, exceptions to the rule and the above links are to one such exception. The Scottish Parliament must, legally, consider it. Most other petitions can just be dropped in the nearest recycling bin. Not the Holyrood one, though.
Fiona @ 6.20 a career in mind reading awaits you. Can’t just be the two of us who think that.
Just in the Herald and it’s fundily mundily a pretty clear message! I’m not astonished.
————————————————————————————————
Union boss Len McCluskey has blamed Jim Murphy for Labour’s election defeat at the hands of the Tories.
The Unite union general secretary said the Scottish Labour leader should quit as a result.
He said he lay the blame for the election defeat “very squarely at the feet of Scottish Labour”, in an interview with BBC Newsnight.
“Not only have they lost Scotland but I think they’ve been responsible for making certain that the Tories were back in power in Westminster,” he said.
Calling for Jim Murphy to resign he continued: “In Scotland my view is very, very strongly that we have to say to the Scottish people we’re sorry for letting you down, for making you feel abandoned, and Scottish Labour is under new management.”
“I think Jim and his colleagues should just leave the scene.”
—————————————————————————————-
@MarkAustin says: 14 May, 2015 at 4:13 pm:
“One of the biggest problems with the BBC news coverage is that they take their “angle” from the papers.
Perhaps they do Mark, but it is more than probable they use exactly the same sources as The Dead Tree Press and most likely also many on-line sources too.
That source is the News Agencies like, for example, Reuters.
link to uk.reuters.com
It used to be ticker tape machines but now it is websites.
We used to have a crypto machine coupled to a MOD Communication Radio Receiver tuned to a News agency. The Crypto machine decoded the coded radio signal and printed it out. We got all the news at the same time as the newspapers, TV & Radio broadcasters but, as they had to script it for newsreaders, we got things first.
We weren’t supposed to do that but, (Ahem!), the equipment had to have final live test runs.
@chalks says: 14 May, 2015 at 4:29 pm :
“actually FBO’s are usually obtained not by violence in stadiums but outside of them, miles away from stadiums.”
Not that it’s worth arguing about, but if memory serves well, the biggest numbers involved in sport in Scotland was said to be fishing and next was golf but my own impression is that cycling and walking would both also put football in the shade.
@sensibledave says: 14 May, 2015 at 5:34 pm:
“… so as not to cause additional annoyance!
[Chuckle]!
Oh! don’t worry, sensibledave, you don’t rate high enough to annoy.
But see yon Ronnie Anderson … …
DARFC
link to change.org
Never mind the BBC : )
@ Robert Peffers @ 7:33pm
Fishing is not a sport, it’s comparable to fox-hunting.
Stand Free
Regarding Len McLuskey’s comments on Jim Murphy and Scottish Labour, he is laying the Conservative win squarely at the feet of Scottish Labour.
That is some statement!
With Scottish Labour to blame then BBC Scotland share that blame along with The Record, T Crichton, The Scotsman, Herald, Dim Duncan Hothersall, Brian Wilson, The Bird…I could go on but basically the entire Labour machine in Scotland should feel absolute shame for condemning the entire population of The UK to another 5 years of Tory rule. Hope your proud of yourselves! Bastards everyone of you, especially the media for not holding Labour to account.
And you have the audacity to keep bringing up the vote of no confidence in 1979!
You are a disgrace!
Difficult to think of anyone more obnoxious and untrustworthy than James Murphy, but I am sure Labour can manage it.
The problem I see with the BBC is that reporting the facts without bias is not a licence to give an equal view to any old pish. Their idea of balance is to get Issac Newton, Galileo, Einstein and Stephen Hawking on one side and some nutcases from the Flat Earth Society on other side, and to treat both sides as equally valid.
Politics should be the same – eg pro-austerity crackpots or doom laden anti-Scot propaganda should be treated with contempt and ignored for their ignorance, not promoted as equals of qualified economists and intellectuals, just as we should do with homeopathy, creationism or crop circles.
In other words, tv for the masses should have some sort of scientific peer-review system, like academic journals, to make sure that people are informed of facts, not whatever bullshit is fashionable.
@lumilumi says:
“So, please, no baby out with bathwater. Scotland needs a proper Scottish public service broadcaster. A broadcaster not beholden to Labour, not beholden to the party leaders or media luvvies in London, not some provincial afterthought.”
Wise words lumilumi. Every word of your posts are not just worth reading but worthy of serious reflection. Your input to Wings is outstanding. Many thanks.
There are always going to be voices of dissent on this site and I welcome that. Sensibledave makes his points as does Will Podmore and I enjoy the discussions they generate. They are entitled to their opinion and obviously get something from the experience.
People rail about trolls as is there wont. I like to challenge people at times in the same way. Then we have Yoda. Inane doesn’t come close.
@Vince says: 14 May, 2015 at 6:37 pm:
” … Mundell and Dunlop” … “They’ve done it already calling on the British Civil Service to interfere in the referendum and Frenchgate. Plotting against the elected majority is no doubt going on as I write. Stomach churning.”
As you write there will be notice being taken by both the Council of Europe and the EU, both of whom are great organs for democracy in Europe. I would think the European organisations do actually notice how the, (Ahem!), United Kingdom is so well united. Remember the behind the scenes actions before devolution?
O\t Anyone else noticed the Rev has changed the wee saying under the Wings logo? 🙂
Hi Rev
As football goes my team is the galactic Broxburn Athletic Juniors and like Forrest Gump that’s all I got to say about football at this time.
I’m aware you don’t take kindly to folks telling you what to do but I remember you stating that after GE you were gonna take a timeout, to chill and recharge is something all of us need to consider-you more than most for carrying the hopes of all these wingers,heavy load m8-have a nice hol.
Best regards
The BBC was a secret member of the CBI, an avowed ‘NO’ campaigning organisation, before during and after the Referendum. It never explained or apologised for spending public money on membership of a politically committed organisation with a resolute and implacable opposition to Scottish self determination.
Its coverage of Scottish politics from the election of the first SNP administration at Holyrood in 2007 has been biased and politically motivated in favour of the Labour Unionist agenda. The evidence is well documented by GA Ponsonby in his book about ‘how the BBC stole the the Referendum’ and is backed up by the presence of Labour affiliated personnel running the news and political narrative, such as John Boothman, Sarah Smith, Hayley Miller etc. etc.
Only a blind man or trolls like Will Plodmore and Loda etc. would believe otherwise.
In terms of quality of football coverage and corresponding equality of representation of our national game that it is lamentable and grossly unfair. As has been stated, Gary Lineker gets paid more than the whole budget for Scottish football.
Re. Rangers, well a significant percentage of their support voted ‘Yes’ or SNP but the club, new or otherwise has a poisoned Brit/nat culture that it has cultivated to the max over the past twenty years. On my last visit with my team (not Celtic), pre-Ref, we were subjected to anti-Scottish racist abuse, anti-Catholic invective, ‘NO’ cards brandished in their thousands and oddly leaflets thrown at us , along with cups of urine, accompanied, incongruously, by leaflets with JK Rowland’s exhortation to save the Union printed on them. I don’t know which was more sickening the urine or her ugly twisted mug.
GA Graham and fellow fitba haters should understand that our game, the one we invented and perfected, was stolen from us by Sky money and BBC England’s desire to sideline not only our game but our nation. Football is an iconic game and is identified, more than any other, with national identity, particularly with working class people.
Scottish hooliganism, although historically older than England’s, is now negligible, particulary since the 90s, with the exception of Old Firm games and when, ironically , Rangers venture into England for ‘friendlies’. In England it has been endemic since the 60s.
We deserve far better, and until BBC Scotland is in the hands of an elected Scottish based Management and becomes an open ,culturally based and State run, subscription based organisation SBC, which creates programmes with native talent and gives all sports coverage, but with football pre-eminent, we will have to suffer the branch office feeble excuse for a ‘national ‘ station.
Why did they not appoint Annabel Goldie as a deputy/assistant to Mr Mundell?
She is in the Lords and at least was at one time an elected MSP.
@IvMoz says: 14 May, 2015 at 7:57 pm:
“Fishing is not a sport, it’s comparable to fox-hunting.
Can’t say I’ve ever seen a pack of hounds in the Meedies, never mind tearing a fish to bits in Lochore Meedies either, IvMoz.
Matter of fact I’m sure I saw the anglers throwing the fish back and notices telling them to do so.
Legerwood says:
“Why did they not appoint Annabel Goldie as a deputy/assistant to Mr Mundell?”
That wouldn’t have had the provocative effect that Cameron wanted.
“Can’t stand Liberal Democrat type sneering at sections of society using the guise of a poll to do it”
Wait, what?
“Another oddity is the UKIP responses. I would have thought that given the BBC’s promotion of UKIP over the last few years UKIP supporters would have been pro BBC. But they are not.”
The UKIP and Green samples are so tiny as to be meaningless.
“Don’t generalise Rangers fans as one giant monolithic bloc of skinhead knuckle-draggers.”
Nobody did. If I meant ALL “Rangers” fans, I’d have included that word.
vMoz says:
14 May, 2015 at 7:57 pm
@ Robert Peffers @ 7:33pm
“Fishing is not a sport, it’s comparable to fox-hunting.
Stand Free”
I’ve never eaten fox and chips, with or without broon sauce.
What’s it like?
Robert Peffers,
I had a dog who persuaded a couple of sheep dogs (who were working) to run off into the woods with him. They were seen later in the river. Mine splashing vigorously in the pools whilst the others grabbed the fleeing fish and threw them out. They then had a feast.
The neighbour who saw them sat and watched for quite a while as he had never seen anything like it before!
“The problem with Rangers is you need to define whether you’re talking about the team or the company. It’s definitely the same team”
No, it’s not. If it was, its players wouldn’t have been allowed to walk away from their contracts without penalty.
@X_Sticks: @lumilumi says: 14 May, 2015 at 8:08 pm:
“So, please, no baby out with bathwater. Scotland needs a proper Scottish public service broadcaster. A broadcaster not beholden to Labour, not beholden to the party leaders or media luvvies in London, not some provincial afterthought.”
“Wise words lumilumi. Every word of your posts are not just worth reading but worthy of serious reflection. Your input to Wings is outstanding. Many thanks.”
There’s a lot to be said about that notion but it is not the BBC, per se, that is the problem but the upper, middle and lower management, (and of course most of the faces & voices behind the cameras and microphones).
The thing is the Scottish public has paid through the nose for the buildings, equipment and other infrastructure and just throwing the lot out of Scotland would be like throwing all the furniture out of your house so as to decorate the walls.
Rangers players used to get penalties aplenty…
@X_Sticks 8.50pm
You’re absolutely right – like all playground bullies, Cameron is twisting the knife because he thinks he’s safe – the only thing bullies respond to is fear, and he doesn’t see anything to be frightened of at the moment. Also, like most bullies, he tends to operate in the moment and doesn’t really think that far ahead. He will do whatever he thinks is necessary at the time to keep himself in power, because that is all that matters to him.
Conan the Librarian says@9.02
“I’ve never eaten fox and chips, with or without broon sauce.
What’s it like?
A bit gamey. 😉
@Lochside says: 14 May, 2015 at 8:25 pm:
” … Re. Rangers, well a significant percentage of their support voted ‘Yes’ or SNP but the club, …
Stop right there, Lochside, and get something quite clear. Rangers FC is not a club it is a business, and a new business at that. What is a club, or more correctly an affiliation of clubs, are the many supporters clubs. When the business went broke and another business took over it was not a take-over but a buy out of only the business. If it had not been then the new company would be legally liable for the old business debts.
So the support is indeed a continued Rangers supporter’s club(s), but the business is a new business.
Now that the Rev is around we discuss fishing with dogs –
Sheer wings genius.
@ lumilumi – fan as always honey.
@john king
For fox sake.
@Paula Rose
Two of my dogs are so stupid they would probably drown before managing to catch a fish. Definitely not sheepdog material. The other is part Rhodesian ridgeback, so she would probably be looking round for the lions . . .
@ Robert Peffers 8:48pm
I respect many of your posts on this site. I bow to your expertise and wisdom on many issues, but please don’t claim fishing is a sport – by any definition.
Sport should be a contest between two equals or near equals.
Being flippant about animal cruelty is not admirable. A hook in the mouth would not be pleasant.
Not flaming, just making a point.
Dogs are generally pretty hopeless at fishing.Far better with a bear.
What is missed is how much better funded the SBS could be. I believe only £80M out of say £320M raised in Scotland is currently spent on BBC Scotland.
Half the fee and spend it all in Scotland and the SBS has twice the funding. Surely that could help improve the mince that we’re fed at the moment.
“Off to another site not obsessed with a game.”
The well known ‘football’ site Wings Over Scotland loses yet another Telegraph reader…
@ Mealer.
Cormorants rule.
@IvMoz,
Heady Gudgeon – m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dkevB9aZxw
@ IvMoz
When I lived in London many decades – scratch that – a little while ago
I was of the same opinion, however since living here I recognise what a vital role anglers play in keeping our rivers healthy.
I myself would not want to hook a fish for sport – but I cannot condemn the practise considering the wider benefit it brings.
Though I must say that defining sport is a bit like defining Art – a human activity that is difficult to pin down.
Conan 9.53
Good thinking.It’d be easier wrestling the catch off a cormorant.
@Paula Rose says: 14 May, 2015 at 9:28 pm:
“Now that the Rev is around we discuss fishing with dogs.
Don’t know about that, Paula Rose, but I know the fox gets a far too bad press than it ever deserved. I was born and spent my earliest years on a farm. I’ve always been a person that observed and studied things around me. Anyway, the idea foxes are great animals for taking new born lambs is mostly utter rubbish. Ewes are really great mothers and will risk their own life to protest their lambs.
If you observe a fox around a flock they will circle downwind and then creep closer to the flock. Of course the flock will move away from foxy. Then foxy will move in where the lambing ewes had been and get the risk free meal provided by the lambing ewes afterbirth. No self respecting fox would dare get too close to a lamb for to do so would invite a ewe’s head butt.
Neither do you get foxes hanging around farmyards for there are always dogs around. I’m not saying foxy won’t take a chicken or a lamb for they are opportunists. The usual culprits coming into farmyards are the old, sick and injured unable to catch their usual diet.
Where I live now used to be outside the village and I had cctv and auto-floodlights. I had a regular vixen visitor who came up my drive, up my back garden and over the rear fence heading for the village. Around 20 minutes later she returned after visiting the village cairyoot shops for her supper. She would be carrying something too, I assumed for the cubs. Why hunt when humans are so wasteful?
Dont have time for the bbc or oldco/newco/the rangers
saying that if the sfa did not show as much bias as the bbc then we would have a fairer country in both broadcasting and sport
How many Wingers will be complaining to Ofcom / Auntie as to why the third largest political party at Westminster is denied a regular spokesperson on Question Time?
link to stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk
I don’t mind the football chat… It relates to what is now a post modern history and is a key distraction.
Well y’all. It is just coming up to a week since the election. It looks like the Tories are only going to implement most of the Smith Commission, which in itself was of course incredibly feeble. When it is implemented I think we are going to see major problems with the Scottish budget. The Cuthbert’s (and I think Rev Stu) have said that income tax on its own is fraught with risk, the Barnett formula will start to be phased out as well, and apparently there could well be ‘gearing’ problems with the income tax responsibility (not a clue what that means, but it sounds both likely and ominous). It looks like we are at the mercy of the Tories again.
I can see a Home Rule march coming along shorty. However, I can see the Tories just ignoring it like they did in the 1980s and 1990s. The No vote means we have locked ourselves in until at least 2020, I cannot see the SNP going for another referendum so soon, and we have to win the next time, or the game really is up. In short, I think we might be up the creek without a paddle. Does anyone have a more cheery interpretation of the situation we find ourselves in?
Our communities need us to focus on creating a fair and worthy future.
And we do.. Our political discourse does “soar’… We cover all topics and are in denial of none. We dont have anything to hide as a nation.
@IvMoz says: 14 May, 2015 at 9:40 pm:
“Sport should be a contest between two equals or near equals.” often competitive and involving physical capability.
Well actually that is NOT the definition of a sport. I quote – “sport n, an athletic game or pastime often competitive and involving physical capability.”
“Being flippant about animal cruelty is not admirable. A hook in the mouth would not be pleasant.”
I’m not aware if you know this but veterinarian surgeons say that fish do not have the same style of vervous system as warn blooded animals and are not capable of such pain. I wouldn’t know the truth of that as I’m neither a vet nor an angler.
“Not flaming, just making a point”
ditto!
@ Legerwood at 8.34
Annabel Goldie is still an MSP (she was made a Baroness in 2013, after retaining her Holyrood list seat in 2011, but membership of the House of Lords is not a bar membership of / election to Holyrood, otherwise we would not have had to put up with Foulkes as an MSP), so she cannot serve in the Westminster government.
She also has a reputation for not being totally obnoxious – I’m not sure it’s really deserved, but as X_Sticks pointed out, such an appointment certainly wouldn’t be seen to be as provocative as Dunlop’s.
– “not a bar to membership…” (sloppy editing).
I agree BBC are dreadful with politics, but I have been watching “Shark” on BBC One, and nobody can do a nature programme better. Sack the commentators. Keep the cameramen.
Bats also get a bad press.. vampires, being pretty ugly etc. And spiders, although “The Bruces’ one done well.
Yes, its a strange one tonight… FOOTIE, FOXES, AND FIDO.
@caledonia says: 14 May, 2015 at 10:08 pm:
“Dont have time for the bbc or oldco/newco/the rangers
saying that if the sfa did not show as much bias as the bbc then we would have a fairer country in both broadcasting and sport”.
Best comment today! Right on the mark.
Sports Participation in Scotland 2008
Research Digest no. 110
Most popular sports and physical recreations in Scotland (at least once a month) 2006-08: all (peak months)- Adults (+16)
1. Swimming
2. Cycling
3. Football
Source: link to sportscotland.org.uk
Perhaps someone else can explain why the so called ‘national sport’ is less popular than sharing a pool of chlorinated effluent.
Mutley
.. Cheer up.
Our “stance” is in the ascendency.
So long as the money we spend is spent well, our long term goals will be assured. Make the national debt worth having.
We have assets currently outside the “figures” used to worry us.
We have imagination and staying power.
On Question Time tonight: Jeremy, Tristram and Nigel, three Hunts together.
Question Time…a Tory..a Red tory..Farage…Economist editor and Brian May
And the cry of Pish went up!!
Fuck the BBC it has no credibility left.
BBC Scotland? WTF unionist cringe central. Can’t bear to watch or listen, totally irrelevant.
My wife listens to radio 2 in the morning. I hate it, usually go to another room to eat my breakfast.
Chris Evans show – anachronistic pish arghhh I can’t take it!
If the rest of the uk wants to live in the past fair enough, just get that shit to fuck off our airwaves.
Scotland 2015 I may have missed it at the start but did they just have a tory followed by a Labour guy on talking about new powers for Scotland without someone from the SNP on to challenge what they were saying?
Lochside, if, as you suggest, our precious game was stolen from us by Sky then they done us a huge favour. I absolutely hate the way people talk about football as if it has any more relevance than tiddlywinks. It hasn’t. The fact that a higher number of morons are into football than tiddlywinks says more about sheep and delusion than it does about sport.
Anyway, Rangers died. Their fans should be grateful. Ibrox should be converted into some sort of refugee/immigrant accommodation centre.
People that encourage their kids to try and make a career of playing football are on a par with parents who encourage their kids to use heroin. Actually, I take that back — it’s much more likely that a heroin junky might come up with an original or interesting thought or two.
The BBC’s days are numbered, anyway the Tories will likely take care of that. What might take it’s place though? Another commercial channel though under government control still regarding content?
I have no idea but I believe we are heading that way. The worst of both worlds.
There is absolutely no way that any UK government will give up total control over content concerning politics and “national security” consider the DA-Notice which already give the government almost total control over what can be published or broadcast.
Of course this is supposed to be voluntarily applied in a democracy but their will be no future career in journalism for anyone choosing to ignore it.
There is no simple solution but one thing is clear, the BBC in it’s current form is no longer fit for purpose.
Is Tristram Hunt related to David Coulthard?
The chins are identical!
Annabelle Goldie totally lost her seat in Holyrood, she was voted out decisively in the last Holyrood election (last?). She came back as a list MSP, so did Tavish. Totally deplorable. Goldie was then made a Member of the (unelected) HoL. Now she has two troughing salaries. How does she manage to do two unelected posts? Davidson replaced her not elected another appointed list MSP. Democracy Tory/Unionist style, Playing the system. ‘Benefits scroungers’.
@ Fireproofjim – keep the shark, need it for jumping stuff.
Question Time on and its an utter disgrace what we in Scotland have to put up with. All week on Daily Politics and now this Farce of a programme where we have constant analyses of U.K.I.P (1M.P.) , Lib Dems and how they are to make the come back trail !!. Who will be the Labour Party’s future best person to be Prime Minister ? All WITH ABSOLUTELY NO ONE FROM THE S.N.P. to give another view even with 56 M.P’S. Civil War now the way forward??
Calm down, Alan of Neilston. We will get a lot of this.
Third party used to be pretty much automatically included on a panel of 4 or 5. Looks like the rules have changed. You may have some idea of the reason for that: I couldn’t comment. But changed they have, and we can’t do much about it.
‘Does anyone have a cheerier interpretation?’ That wouldn’t be hard, Mr Doom and gloom. Typical.
Yes, hold another Referendum and win it. Everyone has had enough of these Westminster/Unionist clowns. Had them up to the Ayes. The Ayes will have it. Holyrood will be cleared out bas well. Next the Councils/Local authorities will be Unionist free, as well. There will be no where for them to go. Scotland will be Unionist free. Peace and quiet from their nonsense. Scotland will be in the EU. The rest of the UK will not.
Brian May says “in order for a Referendum to work we must have access to the truth(from media) and I dont think we have that!”
O.K.Got the picture football is popular.Rangers must be converted into YES supporters.
Cameron is a divisive,antagonistic, RACIST.
Career is paramount not country to Dick Dastardly Cameron.
Muttley Osborne will destroy the economy.
Now just seen on Sky News how wonderful the Unemployment figures are.
I am sure the newsreader had a picture of Murdoch,Cameron and the BERKLY bro’s.in front of him while his arm was shaking violently below the desk
Was getting a bit stale here so I had a look at Hollyrood magazine link above
It appears to be what my London cousins call ‘pants’ with Tom Freeman predicting a Milliband victory and crediting Murray with the winning of Baile Edin Theas
Pants or not pants?
Brian May is the only one speaking any sense. Ripping Cameron and the press. Uxbridge audience mostly Tory and the labour guy (Tristran somebody) wouldn’t look out of place at the hunt ball.
@Ken500
We will have another referendum, not before and until we are sure we will win it.
No sense otherwise.
BBC reporting Rangers’ official status with the football authorities. How dare they.
Most of the Football ‘Companies’ are up to their eyes in debt, close on bankrupcy, especially in the English Premier League. Thry have priced themselves out of the Market with their monumental greed. ‘Businessmen’ of dubious character run the Companies to line their pockets with anything they can get from the fans to fund their luxury lifestyles. The fans are secondary to their Pozzi schemes. Taken for granted.
It was reported that the last Gerard match tickets, were changing hands for £thousands, to fund £Millionaires lifestyles. Enough is never enough. It wouldn’t be surprising if these companes were being used to launder money from tax evasion. The unofficial gambling syndicates taking place. Being sponsored by gambling companies. A sporting Game.
Any survey taken from football fans could have a gender imbalance to the outcome.
GHG
In terms of participation your numbers may be correct.
But unless ‘sport’ is competitive as most football is..
The number of people playing , watching football will be well ahead of the other two mentioned.
If Goldie troughed in Westminster, she would have three unelected posts. A hat trick. She could go for an EU one as well. FM, PM, EU president, Australian Premier, UN Heidbanger. Nothing holds these Tory/Unionists back, definitely not the small matters of getting elected first. Hasn’t she done well. No one could fear that OAP.
We will win the next Referendum, especially after this carry on, in the aftermath. What a disgraceful betrayal. Even more people are raging.
The layout of the site has changed. MI5?
@ Ken500
Annabel Goldie has only ever been a list MSP; all her attempts in the constituency section have failed. So she didn’t so much lose her seat last time as yet again not get one.
I’d like to see fox hunting in lochs.
It’s rather good in cheynes.
@Aceldo Atthis at 10.56 pm
Are you some kind of bampot, or just a flamer? If you hate football so much, what the fuck are you doing bothering your arse to leave an utterly shit comment about kids playing football being worse than heroin junkies instead of just pissing off to do whatever it is you do to turn yourself on? Idiot.
@Dal Riata
Agreed.
Just saw this for the first time – Alistair Campbell appearing on CH4’s much-derided GE coverage, hosted by Paxman.
For non-telly watchers, it’s quite shocking to see how people have aged when you haven’t clapped eyes on them for a while. And wasn’t Campbell meant to have been off the wagon for many years? Perhaps he’s just ‘tired’…
link to youtube.com
Robert, I am a vet. Sticking a hook in a fish’s mouth is cruel. Give it up.
There’s also the question of what the commission of such callous acts does to the person doing them. Insensitivity to the suffering of others, including animals, is dehumanising.
Question Time: Brian May was the only person speaking any sense at all such as in relation to Media propaganda but was mostly left out of the debate / cut short / talked over / ignored constantly by Dimwit. Par for the course.
Thankfully he was applauded by the audience when he could (not often) get a point across.
I’m not a fan of Farage (far from if) but he was trying to express some relevant facts about the EU but he was ‘shut up’ too.
The power of the Unionist Media Propaganda Machine is a real worry.
More than anything we really need our own (Scottish) Broadcasting Service.
Let’s hope Nicola will make this a number one priority with the man (weasel) who commands, only, one third of ALL UK votes.
Has Brian May been reading Wings?
Please read the Wee Ginger Dug’s latest post for another new word to add to our vocabulary.
Brian May was the most sensible and honest on the QT panel tonight.
Disappointed that there was far too much on UKIP and that the guy in the audience who brought up Human Rights was dismissed.
Human Rights should have been the focus of the debate.
@Paula Rose says: 15 May, 2015 at 12:18 am :
“I’d like to see fox hunting in lochs.”
Don’t know about that but I was trying to take a photograph of a part of a loch.
I set up the camera on the tripod but had to wait for some clouds to pass as they reflected in the water. So I was quite still. I spied a fox across the loch and watched to see what it was up to.
It turned round and I though it was going away but it started to back into the water very, very slowly. It went back until just the end of its muzzle was above the water then came out and walked away. I’d no idea what it was doing.
A day or so later I was speaking to a old farmer friend and told him what I had seen. He knew the answer. Seems foxes are prone to flea infestations and they do the very, very slow reverse into the water to clear the fleas. He was a bit of a joker and said, “why they dinna yaise flech poother lik a’body else Ah dinna ken”.
Muttley, I’ve got a more optimistic take on it for you. It’s simple. You said it yourself. 2020 is only five years away.
I’m not certain it will take that long anyway. The opinion polls are the important thing. If Yes is consistently and significantly ahead by Easter, Nicola is going to go for it in the 2016 manifesto. Material changes in circumstances will be there in abundance to be cited. Including the simple one of Scotland having changed her mind.
Yes is going to pull ahead, I think, and if it does, Nicola isn’t stupid. Carpe diem. Strike while the irom is hot. Forward momentum.
Buckle up, it’s going to be an interesting ride.
Lovely to have sanity restored to our favourite site, been a bit fraught recently, anyway…
link to youtube.com
Free speech welcome!
Those that disagree with the majority view on here are most welcome. Mainly for entertainment purposes of course for the rest of us.
I’m talking of course about the people who are open about their allegiances, not those that are not what they appear to be. You know those that hide under rocks.
You are not welcome.
Some of you are subtle, some blatant but at the end of they day you all expose yourself through your own words. Your words are being read by many thousands everyday, stray from the path and you will be found out.
There is no troll witch hunter, there are thousands of them. So please just fuck off if your only reason for being here is to cause divisiveness.
We are up to your shit and no longer interested so don’t waste your time nor mine.
@ Morag Here’s hoping your Optimism is right.
I have a good quote for the Rev.
I said this to conclude my fathers funeral eulogy I gave.
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man adapts the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man”.
I think it’s very apt considering this is how the SNP is going to be portrayed for the next 5 years in Westminster.
Long time since I’ve posted this link, but there’s always the chance it’ll be new to someone.
George Carlin, ‘The American Dream’ –
link to youtube.com
A list of the things I’ve been wrong about would fill a book. I thought we’d win last time, for a start. Not right at the end, but back when the campaign first started. I thought there would be a late surge to Yes that would win it. I didn’t bank on the BBC strangling it.
I thought that if we lost, the SNP would lose support and maybe even seats, and Cameron would sweep to victory as the saviour of the union. (OK, he did win, but not the way I thought he would.)
I thought that if No won, the WM government would treat us to flowers and chocolates and dinner and a movie, to make sure people were lulled into a sense of security and voted for unionist parties in May. I thought we wouldn’t see Cameron’s nasty side until after the election. I thought that he’d then begin to shaft us by the boiled-frog technique, not openly and vindictively. I thought we’d get a lot about how much our participation in the union was valued, ans so on.
I thought the indepence movement would be dealt such a blow it would take it 20 years to recover back to where it was in 2014.
I’m so glad I’m wrong about so many things.
The SNP stood in 60 (approx) seats got 1.5million votes. Average – Divide 1,500,000 by 60 (approx) seats = 25,000 no of votes per seat – 1st FPT. Won seats.
UIKP stood at (approx) 300 seats got 4Million votes. Average per seat. Divide 4,000,000 by 600 (approx) seats 6,666 (?) average no of votes per seats. Lose seat came second or third. Got one seat.
SNP got an average of 25,000 per seat Large majority. UIKP got an average of 6,666 per sets nit enough to win majority,
Elementary Maths. Yet ‘expert’ Pollsters, ‘reporters’ MSM, politicians don’t get it. It is unbelievable.
The ‘expert’ Pollster companies are getting £Millions of public money.
@Morag says: 15 May, 2015 at 12:57 am:
“Robert, I am a vet. Sticking a hook in a fish’s mouth is cruel. Give it up.”
As I already poster, Morag, I’m not an angler. The remark about the hook came from a vet. I live just by Loch Ore and frequently walk the Country Park and talk with, among others, the many anglers. I just repeated what a local vet, who fishes the loch, told me when I said it must not only hurt the fish but stress it badly.
“There’s also the question of what the commission of such callous acts does to the person doing them. Insensitivity to the suffering of others, including animals, is dehumanising.”
I wouldn’t know about that. I’m kind to all living things and have spent much of my free time doing volunteer work with, particularly those with learning difficulties, and the old, disabled and sick.
Even my wee Papillon is a trained befriender with the, “Therapets”. My last wee girl did 15 years and this one’s still going strong but my recent disability trouble means we are doing less just now. Good thing is I reached the end of a course of treatment two days ago so should now start getting fit again.
Not worried about the Westminster/MSM/BBC drones,they are just doing their jobs.
As we all know,they are doing what they always do,doing what’s best for them.
56 curtain openers,working honestly,as team,will really open them up for everyone else to see what we have already.
They have no interest in people,society,the poor or the weak,they are wrong,no one is against business or profits but the price they ask is too high.
There is a better model,Scotland,the SNP is leading the way,the rest will follow,let’s throw those curtains wide,hope over fear.
Falling out with Auntie has been educational. Falling out with one another is understandable but unnecessary, as it is always better to stay on the park than have to go off injured. But it is all in the game – which is changing fast.
Compared to three years ago, we are living in a different world here in Scotland. Politics has become unrecognisable with a remarkable change in the landscape. From six to fifty six SNP MP’s, the prospects for a better deal for Scotland are just so much better, and with Labour now having one foot in a Scottish grave, Scotland can think seriously about being Unionist free for the first time since 1707.
Not that all is well; far from it. This Tory Government is not about to change its Colonial spots nor forget the lessons learned in running an Empire. Have we not seen at first hand in IndyRef and GE15, just how nasty and very bitchy, Westminster can be. The Tory philosophy is simple – give us what we want and all will be fine. Show any sign of non-cooperation, and we will show you who’s boss.
But there is no going back now. Westminster’s crimes have been uncovered ; the truth is being revealed on a daily basis and the Scottish electorate have woken up to find there’s a burglar in the house – and that he is a trusted friend. Now, he is
no longer a friend and can no longer be trusted.
We now know that we must have Independence. Scotland’s marriage with England is over. After such a betrayal, there can be no future for the Union. We are now in the process of getting a divorce ; it’s messy and upsetting, but necessary.
And will require perseverance. Which means it will not be without suffering.
@Morag
When is it you have ever been right 🙂 Glad you were wrong this time.
Thepnr, in amongst all this divisiveness you keep harping on about, do you think a self-appointed witch finder General is going to help matters or make them worse by going around talking about troll conspiracies?
As for my comment on football, the truth is that heroin addicts probably have better job prospects than kids who are pressed into devoting their lives to football. And there’s probably less of them.
Petra honey what did you mean by that>
I’m not a fan of Farage (far from if) but he was trying to express some relevant facts about the EU but he was ‘shut up’ too.
Not sure I picked up any relevant facts – but apologies, I’ve just watched it, please elucidate.
@Aceldo Atthis
What are you on about?
@ Aceldo Atthis
That is one of the most ridiculous claims ever – I hate to sow discord but could you please substantiate, that is ridiculous honey – you should really rethink and rewind, unless you can back that claim up with the type of evidence we expect here.
If I was responsible for recruiting trolls to go on Wings I’d fucking make sure they had at least 3 O Levels.
Guilty conscience? : Wandering about at this time of the day Anyhoo!
In the Herald: Sorry wont archive so just a snippet.
—————————————————————————————-
The SNP has triggered two following the election of two of its city councillors as Westminster MPs last week.
A third was confirmed after it emerged one of the authority’s Green councillors was standing down due to ill health.
Martin Docherty and Alison Thewliss returned from their first week London for a meeting of today’s full council, where they have announced it would be their last.
Following the conclusion of the meeting the Scottish Greens announced that Liam Hainey, who was elected in 2012, would also stand down from his seat in Langside, on the city’s south side.
A date will be set for all three by-elections by the city’s returning officer but they are expected to be held within the next two to three months.
Mr Docherty’s departure to become MP for West Dunbartonshire will force an election within council leader Gordon Matheson’s city centre ward. Ms Thewliss had represented Calton, in the east end before defeating Anas Sarwar to become Glasgow Central MP.
The decision is being seen as a calculated move by the SNP to deepen the anxiety of Labour within the city, with Cllr Matheson’s future being openly discussed following last week’s whitewash. The party was under no obligation to trigger the polls and had discussed the merits since last Thursday.
It is unclear if any other of the other dozen or SNP councillors elected as an MP last week will resign to instigate by-elections.
One Labour source said the decision to force the by elections was an attempt to “cut the legs of the party in Glasgow”, adding: “If Labour delivers more of the same the outcome will be the same as last week. Labour would need to win and win convincingly.”
An SNP insider said the party had decided that potential defeat in a city where Labour surprisingly romped home to a majority win in the 2012 council elections was worth the risk.
————————————————————————————————
I’m still up shouldn’t be I,m too old
But I was reminded of something Christine Graham pointed out during the Referendum that according to the Act of Union and The Declaration of Arbroath that indeed it is correct that the people of Scotland are Sovereign when it comes to Independence and can indeed leave the Union anytime they so choose
The wording goes something like
Should the people of Scotland stream from their houses onto the streets of their towns and villages
no one can gainsay their sovereign right to self determination
That is why the Queen may be Queen of England Ireland and Wales and Queen of Scots but NOT Queen of
Scotland
Now I’m sure Mr Peffers can Lay the details out better than me but what in effect it means is
If we want a Referendum on anything we choose to have one on whenever we choose to have it
It’s got sweet sod all to do with whoever is in charge of the Westminster English Parliament
Now I’m off tae baw baws
I’m a fairly new contributor to this site and in the process of trying to make head or (nor) tail of it.
I’d heard great things about ‘Wings’ such as being a place, a real home, for SNP supporters.
As a member of the SNP, having fought and worked my absolute butt off for Independence, I thought it would be fairly straightforward to post on here… just express my views or opinions. End of. More than anything contribute some facts to enlighten others and get access to reading some others views / data which would enlighten me in the process.
A few days ago I posted some facts. A number of individuals then started bleating on about the issues that divide us. People were moaning about being ‘vilified’ and so on. The ‘divisive talk’ had to be stopped.
Someone then listed the subjects that were deemed to be divisive and were no go areas.
I was listening, taking it all in and thinking I better not go there in future.
This morning (all of yesterday) I’ve read one post after another whereby individuals ARE divided and more so absollutely vilifying each other in relation to the Football Clubs that they support. I found this to be totally confusing and a real worry as MANY of my most DECENT family members and friends support both Rangers and Celtic (ALL YES supporters).
What’s even more worrying is that after checking it out not ONE person who moaned about divisiveness, vilification or listing no go areas has made ONE comment about this. It makes me REALLY wonder about their motives especially in light of the subject that I highlighted.
Well I’m totally lost on here. Don’t know what to make of it all.
Can anyone tell me what’s considered to be devisive? Who determines what’s devisive? And how many ‘yes men / women’ ‘ or absolute hypocrites are posting on here?
More than anything what am I (and other newbies) ‘allowed’ to say / discuss on here?
I always thought this site was about independence not SNP or SSP or greens and it is most definatly not about football clubs and there supporters. In fact this site has absolutely nothing to do about football clubs.
@ paula
Its good fun when there’s news. You get links to interesting tweets and video clips. You learn counter arguments to the crap you are fed on TV or read in Newspapers.
Just now the election is over. Apart from laughing at Jim Murphy, there’s nothing much going on just now, and folks are just kicking each other about some tribal game.
If you see the chart in the article you can see that around 40% of the survey sample couldn’t give a monkeys about that game.
I’d suggest you just only read the site for a few weeks. Sometimes its very good, others its dull. It may not be for you. Try clicking on the links. You may find other sites that are more to your taste. Many of those other sites will have cross links to here, so it’s unlikely you will miss anything.
Generally this is an informative site, but at times its just guys fulminating about naff all in the lounge bar. It can be sublime and it can be dull. Football? Paint drying in my book….
Re Jack Forrests link yetsterday as to how The Establishment can confront ‘the Scottish Threat’. If i had input I’d advocate what might be classified as a ‘soft diplomatic’ approach. So two methods that could be effective to undermine the momentum to Scottish Independence would be a tangent such as the petition for northern England to join with you – build the narrative of class solidarity – and secondly to revive proposals from a decade back to get the Old Firm into the English Leagues, recreating symbiosis between Scotland and England.
In this theme, and this may be senstitive, but the optics of that protest at Pacific Quay – intolerant ‘bravehearts’ – was a godsend to the Unionist propagandists well on the ropes last September. A more diplomatic, questions at PMQ, approach will deliver balance.
Sorry, I’m loath to even offer soft criticisms because yuz are totally dominating the arena, the only question and yuz know the pulse of your nation is whether the strike now approach as Tommie Sheridan advocates is best or wait for 2020+. I suppose part of the consideration here is what is Westminster hoping for Sturgeon and co to do next.
Be good to know in the breakdown of a future poll, the difference between the two clubs, in the respect of political / football coverage.
K1 says@2.45pm
“Heedtracker, whit an obnoxious little man he is. Well shot of…people of Irvine are.”
That vid of him on the patio outside parliament always reminds me of this
link to youtube.com 🙂
_______________________________________________________________
Lumilumi says @4.31pm
“Sorry for the looooong post. [embarrassed smiley here] And thanks for anybody who actually read it all through.”
I would read your posts if they were a long as a book lumilumi, (hint) your love of your country shines through every thing you write and it is a pleasure, no a joy to read your posts,
you display a love of country which sadly many Scots cannot understand but you still have a healthy cynicism towards authority, you make a fantastic role model for us Scots, some of whom forget who we are and where we came from.
______________________________________________________________
Rob James says @5.34pm
“In conclusion, what’s the address for cancelling the tax?”
You forgot this guy
link to tinyurl.com
wuhaaaaa
__________________________________________________________
Vince says @6.37pm
“Mundell and Dunlop.
The Governor General and his unelected assistant now in place to keep the Scottish colony in tow.
Don’t dare get above yourselves you Scots or the Governor General will call on his undoubted powers to slap you down.
They’ve done it already calling on the British Civil Service to interfere in the referendum and Frenchgate. Plotting against the elected majority is no doubt going on as I write. Stomach churning.”
Offence cant be given without being taken, lets just not take it, lets welcome Dunlop as a long lost relative and offer to reaquaint ourselves, then when he’s firmly ensconced in the Scottish office we MAKE HIS AND MUDELLS(not a typo) LIVES MISERABLE! bwahahahahaha
Letters squad attention!
__________________________________________________________
K1 says @6.08pm
“As per no no no….yes and Dr Jim’s comments: re Andrew Dunlop’s appt. as under secretary…this is not going down well, here’s hoping our contingent can do something about this”
We dont want our famous 56 getting into the gutter with this clown, thats what we’re for LETS GET HIM
link to youtube.com
What? a mon canne get in touch wi his feminine side?
__________________________________________________________
Hoss Mackintich says @6.42
“Looks like you are urgently in need of the BBC Licence fee cancellation number – 03007906131.”
Lets get that up on every bus stop (remember to stick a pencil and paper in there)
Me? they’re bangin on the door as we speak. 🙂
_____________________________________________________________
Donald Anderson says @8.01
“Difficult to think of anyone more obnoxious and untrustworthy than James Murphy, but I am sure Labour can manage it.”
Ahem
link to tinyurl.com
______________________________________________________________
Mumsyhugs (aaw kin Aa get one)says @ 8.21
“O\t Anyone else noticed the Rev has changed the wee saying under the Wings logo? :)”
What to?
I’ve upgraded from hammers to a chainsaw and a leather mask?
I’ll… eh… be off then.
_________________________________________________________
Robert Peffers says @8.48pm
“Can’t say I’ve ever seen a pack of hounds in the Meedies, never mind tearing a fish to bits in Lochore Meedies either, IvMoz.”
Try comin roond the Ballingry side Bob, ye cannie move fur dugs. 🙁
________________________________________________________________
Mealer says @9.46
“Dogs are generally pretty hopeless at fishing.Far better with a bear.”
I went fishing with a bear once
link to youtube.com
They don’t fight fair. 🙂
Petra says @3.10am
“More than anything what am I (and other newbies) ‘allowed’ to say / discuss on here?”
Fitever ye like quine.
@Kevin Evans,
If you were from the west coast of Scotland, you’d realise they’re inextricably linked.
Morag wrote:
“Robert, Sticking a hook in a fish’s mouth is cruel. Give it up.”
Agreed, ah jist git mine oot the shoap before ah eat it.
🙂
______
Robert Peffers wrote”
“why they dinna yaise flech poother lik a’body else Ah dinna ken”
LOL
🙂
A very good morning to all of you.
Things to do;
Speak to every one of the non voters.Theres hunners o thoosans o them so it will take a lot of time and effort.
Petra, first of all, you need to chill out…. It’s just rabid plankton playing with strings and kites and things. The second thing you need to remember is that I’m probably the only person worth discussing anything with. Rev Stu has his moments, I’ll grant that, but most of the others are just here to use for psychological experimentational purposes.
As for this whole independence thing, it’s just a bit of a laugh really. None of us really want it or care about it. Most of us are driven by a hatred of the phoney Labour loons rather than a love of anything.
My advice is you get a semi-humorous tattoo and devote your life to the Lord.
The idea shurely is that this site is a real reflection of real people, and therefore will contain conflicting opinions on most subjects.
Football, to its adherents, is more than simply a matter of life or death apparently. Music can be too. In fact, any of thae subjects your parents warned you not to discuss in polite company.
We agree mostly here on politics, specifically that Scotland can be run as a successful, independent country.
We do not need to agree on the how, or even the why. We do not need to agree on everything else.
An opinion without evidence is not a fact.
‘Scottish football doesn’t deserve more cash, insists BBC supremo Barbara Slater’.
link to archive.is
Well that’s us telt.
All anyone needs to known about Farague on the EU is every word he utters is a lie. Fargue is a liar and a charlatan. A criminal who has ben embezzling/defrauding from public funds in the EU for years to make himself and his associate stinking filthy rich tax evaders.
Faradge has been using Public money (fraudulent) expenses for years, to illegally fund a political Party and not declare it. No putting inadequate or proper accounts and getting away with it for years. Protected and kept out of range by the Grandees the Tory Party and right wing newspaper proprietors (who hate and despise Jonny Foreigner) and provide a cover up.
Faradge is an alcoholic who makes poor decisions but keeps one step of the game, wondering where the next drink is coming from (the public purse). Like all addicts wanting more, more, more. No policies and nothing to say but twisted lies and ‘hate Jonny Foreigner’. Britain is on of the hardest place in tbe world to settle in apart from EU citizens and the EU agreement are reciprocal. There are as many Brit in the EU countries as there are EU citizens here.
Farague is economically challenge and not good with facts and figures and legitimate accounting methods but fraud, illegitimacy and coarse, picking on other less fortunates. Fargue can’t count, and is derived of rational thought but him hating ‘Foreigner’s’ to line his pockets He corruptly robs the Public purse. Now he will have to account for his actions and has been voted out. The minute he tried to stand for Westminster would lead to his demise. The EU will survive, with Scotland as a member.
To leave the EU would be a big mistake , that is Scotland’s nearest biggest Market (pro rata), they buy Scotland’s beef, fish and other goods for the best prices. A reciprocal trade agreement, Fair and equal with good social Laws and rights. Although the present President, Juncker, has supported unequal tax evasion and should be made to resign. He claims he has reformed. Dies a leopard change it’s spots?
@ Petra The last thing you should do on this site is take advice from Idiots (Asseldo Atthis) he,s at it & we Wingers have the measure of this clown.
As the Thepnr says there is no Troll Finder General there are thoosands an thoosands of use on here.
The make up of this side is many many different political affiliations .We are Independence minded.
Beware at all times, this is as any Internet site subject to
devicive people & issues ,but as John King says take your time to negociate the site & you will find many Informative Information ( this is not F/Book) all inacurate non factual contributers are Shot down in Flames.
@ Morag we’re winning dont You know Onward N Upward xx.
The reason this site is so successful is because Unionists trolls are not allowed. They have mucked up every other website. Pro Independence supporters on other websites are deleted and banned. So much for ‘open unbiased’ free discussion. This website supports Independence and is for Independence minded people. That is why it is so successful. It gives a voice for Independence. Plus excellent analysis of why that is the case.
Rev Stu is a genius and Scotland should grateful for all he has done to advance it’s cause and open people’s (hearts) and minds. Rev Stu can count and analyse successfully.
@Dr Jim says: 15 May, 2015 at 2:22 am:
“Now I’m sure Mr Peffers can Lay the details out better than me but what in effect it means is
If we want a Referendum on anything we choose to have one on whenever we choose to have it
It’s got sweet sod all to do with whoever is in charge of the Westminster English Parliament.
I cannot do better than the text of the Declaration of Arbroath itself, Dr Jim.
Here’s a link :-
link to historyfiles.co.uk
Here’s another not so easy to read : –
link to scotsman.com
For the lazy ones here is the relevant clause from the declaration. It is talking about the king of Scots if he doesn’t do what the people want him to do. In those days of Divine Right of Kings it was breathtakingly way before the time of real democracy and states the people can sack the Monarch i.e. sovereignty of the people: –
@Petra says: 15 May, 2015 at 3:10 am:
More than anything what am I (and other newbies) ‘allowed’ to say / discuss on here?
Dinna fash, Petra.
Say what you feel like saying and, if someone challenges you, fight your corner. They have no more right than yourself to their views. Except, that is for the Rev Stu for it is his blog.
As to the football thing – as one lot of the old firm tend to go under the banner of the Butcher’s Apron, (or worse the Union Flag with the Red Hand of Ulster upon it), they go under the Union’s colours. As for the the other lot they go under the Irish Tricolour and that is a foreign countries flag.
That, though, is not the problem, it is the problem of the interlinked religious sectarianism and the often violent politics of the divided Ireland that has been a bane of Scotland for hundreds of years. Keep it in Ireland or better still eradicate it from the World. The target is the organizations behind the football and not the individual supporters.
It cannot be ignored that both the religious sectarianism and the politics of Ireland are out of place in an inclusive independent Scotland.
Where do Sky News find these Political commentators
Surgeon would have a secret Referendem WTF
& the other clown, Why doesent Surgeon come here (London), (is no the centre of the univers),as some would like to think,Whoo Shaa, Whoo Shaa. When will the Cartoonist of the Onion be scribbling Camerons puss keeking oota Nicola,s top pocket.
@ Ken Says.
I Agree that unionist trolls have mucked up every other comments page, just look at the Herald and Scotsman,full of absolutely frightening extremist right wing idiots, who are clearly having some sort of psychotic episode.
They make a point, you correct them , then they repeat the same garbage again and again, quite frankly I think some are computer generated!
regarding the football comments, i would like to say that this is a red herring, it is not about football, it never was, especial since the players themselves are from all over the world, it may come as a surprise to some but there is a cancer in Scotland and it invades all our lives, some may become de-sensitized to it, I worked in England for years, and forgot how concerned people were on the actual school I attended, first job back in Scotland, one of the first questions one of my my new workmates asked was “and what school did you go to?”, I am 52!
‘G H Graham says:
14 May, 2015 at 10:39 pmSports Participation in Scotland 2008
Research Digest no. 110
Most popular sports and physical recreations in Scotland (at least once a month) 2006-08: all (peak months)- Adults (+16)
1. Swimming
2. Cycling
3. Football
Source: link to sportscotland.org.uk
Perhaps someone else can explain why the so called ‘national sport’ is less popular than sharing a pool of chlorinated effluent.’
Well Ok, I will bite.
A nearly 10 year old report is what you are quoting…anyways, let’s got back to what you said before, a minority sport? It’s in the top 3 of sports, is that a minority?
Not only that but you’ll also notice that is for Adults over 16….what is it for kids included? Womens football has also grown heavily in the space of 10 years, again, I doubt your 10 year old report will take that into account.
Now, let’s take another smaller point, namely that people going swimming and people playing football is entirely different, as it is measuring the participants of competitive football, whereas it will be taking those who go for a swim rather than swim competitively. I didn’t realise we had so many competitive swimmers and swimming galas on every weekend all over Scotland! Perhaps you should go to your local swimming pool on a friday night or saturday night (when the local clubs are on) count them, then go along to your local football pitches on a saturday/sunday and count them. It ‘might’ be eye-opening for you. You could do the same with cycling.
Finally, as someone has touched on, this report fails to take into account those watching football or who have an interest in the game. Which again, was what your original ignorant point was trying to get across, that Scottish football is a minority sport and more people go fishing than watch it or participate in it. Which is nonsense.
@RobertPeffers
Now now, it’s a west coast of scotland problem, not an east coast problem, up here in Aberdeen we do not understand the sectarian stuff and have no time for it.
If I had my way the old firm would not be playing their football in Scotland.
Aceldo Atthis says @ (who cares)
“The second thing you need to remember is that I’m probably the only person worth discussing anything with. Rev Stu has his moments,”
Well he’s right about that Petra, but what he forgot to tell you is that he’s only one persona of the same person, we are all figments of one persons multiple personality disorder, but who’s the REAL person? well let me put you out of your misery, ITS ME so don’t pay any attention to the scrabble tiles person listen to me. 🙂
I am in favour of Scotland being in charge of its own affairs but I am worried by the tribalism and hostility that flows through some of these comments. The BBC has many flaws, but it is a fantastic organisation. Forget about the news for a moment and think about the radio output: do you really want to flush all that down the pan? Do you really want adverts interrupting everything?
Just a thought….is it hypocritical for folk to damn the current House of Lords but regale the Declaration of Arbroath considering who actually signed it?
ken500 claims that Scotland needs to stay in the EU, because of the trade. Doesn’t the EU allow non-members to trade with it then?
@ Petra
Basically what John, Ronnie and Robert said. 🙂
It’d be a boring old world if we were all of the same shape and mind.
Its an open forum, so you choose what you read, who you talk to and when you want to respond.
@WillPodmore
Soon they’ll be trading very ‘freely’ with America…
@ Chalks
Don’t kidd yourself. google sectarianism in Aberdeen.
Beware the BBC, again. Do not allow the media to transform hostility towards the BBC into an issue of resentment of the license fee. That is not the grievance.
The grievance I have with the BBC is its manipulation of the agenda all the way through the referendum, and the absolute contempt it had for our democracy by distorting the objective and rational arguments surrounding the massive issue of sovereignty. The monotony and sophistry which surrounded the periforal issues of currency, oil price and pensions was an absolute disgrace, when stacked against the biggest constitutional issue this country has faced for 300 years. To date, the BBC has never been brought to book for the central part it played in this “con”.
Before the next referendum, please, let us first deal with this issue of the BBC, and never again leave our best interests as hostage to the state propagandists.
It’s not about the money. We have a dragon to slay.
@Petra
If you feel the need to express a thought or impart information you should go right ahead
As to the offending people thing
I always think if you don’t intend to upset anyone intentionally you did nothing wrong
It should be remembered there are people who’s aim in life is to offend it’s what gets them going they’re twisted sods
and it’s not your problem
Post away, the “Faux Outraged” brigade are with us everywhere and would find fault with the colour of the wallpaper in your house that they’ve never seen
Just because they can
Type Type Type and who’s to say you can’t…
Freedom!
Poor Eleanor Bradford..now reduced to trawling magazine quotes for her anti Scottish NHS rantings
link to bbc.co.uk
‘Andrew McLean says:
15 May, 2015 at 9:10 am@ Chalks
Don’t kidd yourself. google sectarianism in Aberdeen.’
Just did, 3 incidents in the past 13 years…you think that’s a problem? and ps I’ve lived here all my life and never once came across it, I’m Catholic.
We don’t have the same issues with different schools, different areas nor do we have the references to irish songs, our football club wasn’t founded by the irish, we don’t all salivate about the queen etc.
The North East is NOTHING like the west coast of Scotland when it comes to sectarianism, the odd incident at Pittodrie aside, which is also probably more done as a wind up to celtic fans, who come to Pittodrie, sing their bile and then leave with no arrests undertaken by the wonderful offensive behaviour act, only causes to irritate the aberdeen public, it was the same when rangers came to town, they get away with singing their pish.
Will Podmore says:
15 May, 2015 at 9:05 am
ken500 claims that Scotland needs to stay in the EU, because of the trade. Doesn’t the EU allow non-members to trade with it then?
No. Do keep up britnats.
Also, Farage is so popular in England because he gets so much air time from hard line right wing, white, private school/oxbridge boys and girls tories that work for/own the BBC, or tory boys just like farage.
The BBC is a vital UKOK establishment weapon of choice against any progress in teamGB and the only way Scotland will ever shake off this creep show is…I have no idea:D
Oh today has a nice example of the dubious BBC..note first paragraph..and then note what Swinney actually states!
Swinney: ‘No referendum mandate’
Good Morning Scotland
?
BBC Radio Scotland
Posted 08:39
John Swinney told Good Morning Scotland that the SNP were not planning a second referendum.
He said: “We don’t have a mandate for a second referendum. We didn’t seek one in the United Kingdom general election.
“We have set out the process by which Scotland could have a referendum on independence. That is a political party – the SNP – would have to put that in our manifesto, for a Scottish Parliament election.
“That is an issue that the party will determine and consider in the run up to the 2016 election.
“We are not planning a second independence referendum. We respect the outcome of the referendum last September.”
@Petra 3:10am
I disagree with everything you say.
Looking forward to your next contribution.
Simples!!
Breeks @9:13
The BBC is an instrument of and part of the UK Establishment.
End of.
The only solution I can come up with is that a continuously running subtitle be used on their news/ current affairs programs stating,
“Caution! This channel has never knowingly reported the truth!”
In the Herald: Wont archive…Dear Jim.
I wonder if this stushie has anything to do with two labour MSP’s not being in the chamber to ask their questions to the FM.
Marwick deserves to be told.
—————————————————————
Murphy clinging on by his fingertips as Labour MSPs stage coup
JIM Murphy is today clinging on to his job as Scottish Labour leader by his fingertips after the boss of Britain’s most powerful trade union blamed him for the party’s UK-wide defeat in the General Election and a third of his MSPs launched a coup in a dramatic bid to topple him.
Len McCluskey, general secretary of Unite, laid the blame squarely at the feet of Mr Murphy for Ed Miliband’s failure to become Prime Minister and called on the former MP to step down immediately following last week’s catastrophic defeat, which saw Labour lose 40 of its 41 seats north of the border.
Meanwhile, on a day of high drama at Holyrood, a large block of Mr Murphy’s MSPs attempted to oust their leader, while his chief of staff John McTernan prompted outrage among party staffers when he praised Scottish Labour’s election campaign and suggested everything would be fine at next year’s Holyrood vote.
The mutiny is understood to have begun at around 10am yesterday morning, when Rhoda Grant, MSP for Highlands and Islands, called for a meeting of the parliamentary group to discuss the leadership.
The request was blocked by John Pentland, the Labour group chairman and an ally of Mr Murphy, leading to Ms Grant calling an informal meeting which was attended by more than a dozen MSPs who want a change at the top. Significantly, the group is not solely made up of those on the left of the party, who had already been hostile to Mr Murphy taking charge.
The summit went ahead despite Mr Murphy turning up at Holyrood and stalking the Labour corridor with whips Neil Bibby and James Kelly in an attempt to bolster his support. It is understood that at least two senior MSPs told Mr Murphy to his face that he should quit.
Meanwhile, two members of the shadow cabinet are prepared to resign and publicly call for Mr Murphy’s head should his deputy Kezia Dugdale indicate her willingness to become leader. It is understood that the position of Ms Dugdale, who has publicly backed the leader, is currently unclear.
It is believed that the MSPs who attended the meeting are considering sending a letter to the party’s Scottish Executive Committee, which will vote on a no confidence motion at the weekend, stating that Mr Murphy no longer has their support.
His position was dealt a further blow when Mr McCluskey said last night: “I lay the blame for that very squarely at the feet of Scottish Labour. Not only have they lost Scotland but I think they’ve been responsible for making certain that the Tories were back in power in Westminster.
“In Scotland my view is very, very strongly that we have to say to the Scottish people we’re sorry for letting you down, for making you feel abandoned, and Scottish Labour is under new management. I think Jim and his colleagues should just leave the scene.”
Mr McTernan, who Mr Murphy appointed as his right hand man after he won the Scottish Labour leadership last year, has become hugely unpopular with Labour MSPs. One source described him as “beyond toxic” and there is a feeling that ditching his chief of staff may buy the former MP some time.
However, there is an increasing suspicion that Mr Murphy has accepted that he will not lead Scottish Labour in to next year’s Holyrood elections, and is instead focusing on managing his own exit.
A source familiar with the plot to remove Murphy said: “He’s gone into a bunker with McTernan. The number that have a direct interest in him staying on is small and the way things are going we will be reduced to one MSP per region next year.
“Will he win the vote on Saturday? He might, but the question will be how many folk on his own executive voted against him. Grassroots members haven’t met yet since the election, and a series of no confidence votes are planned in constituencies.
“Jim is only thinking about his own career and has become a toxic brand. If he’s still in place in 2016, recovery becomes a theoretical concept. If Kez is in place, we might get something and that could be presented as a success.
“He can drag it out, but he’s dead.”
Desimond @9.05
“Just a thought….is it hypocritical for folk to damn the current House of Lords but regale the Declaration of Arbroath considering who actually signed it?”
So we should just dismiss laws made by lords centuries before we were all born because we don’t agree with unelected people making our laws for us?
So what do we do with the fact that in their day those unelected Lords WERE the defacto legitimate government of that time whether we like it or not, meanwhile today we have universal suffrage and yet we are subject to laws made by those same unelected Lords and you see some kind of hypocrisy in that?
The only hypocrisy I see are the Lords who see US as being undemcratic.
RE; Trolling.
We expect to be treated like, Scotch chippy sweaties on the telegraph and other right wing comics.But the Guardian is now as bad. The union is done…
Sending London-based reporters to Scotland during the Referendum debate, and a ton of celebrities on BBC fees and expenses for a ‘favourite town’ walkabout and a visit to pals while here, was patronising and often insulting, side-lining our own local journalists. How many Scottish journalists were sent south to make programmes there for English consumption? Except for Unionist Marr already a London lad – none.
BBC would argue the plebiscite was a UK affair wanting a UK perspective. Fair enough, but in so doing they failed miserably to present the benefits of autonomy attached to a new treaty for the 21st century.
Choosing a few independence supporters for a ‘balanced’ debate but hitting viewers with a torrent of UK-slanted programmes, while pushing Westminster line as Gospel and Scottish answers as ‘response,’ gradually manufactured consent. The impression I got was the fear factor cast enough doubt about independence now. Some felt autonomy democratically and economically beneficial but for a later date.
(It was always going to be difficult to convince people during a recession, hence BBC was on to a winner choosing pundits and ‘experts’ to hammer away at the economic argument above all others.)
As Salmond avers, to win they only needed to convince 1 in 20 UK rule was better meantime, and that’s what they did.
Does anyone notice that cricket is part of the main news and then again as the main part of the sports news?
Wullie Podmore@
For this interested. Oor Wullie is part of the CPGB, ML. The main Communist Party of GREAT Britain, dropped the Gret some time ago and a small faction grabbed the title. The CPGB is not he same as the CPB. There is also now a Scottish Communist Party that supports Independence and formed the cross party ‘Socialists for Independence’. The tiny CPGB, Marxist Leninist (Maoist) allied them selves withe Unionist left platform within the SSP, In particular the RCT, the ‘Revolutionary Communist Tendency’, which supports a federal Union, Like the CPGB and Lib Dems.
These Unionist groups, included the ‘Workers Unity’ and were all know what Unity means in the GB left, plus the ‘ISM’ International Socialist Movement, were all instrumental in opposing Independence within the SSP. Some have changed their name and popped inside the RIC, and YES movement’s. There are others, chopping and changing al the time. Still awake? You should read their publications.
@ Chalks,
Sorry, your statistics are incorrect
There were 51 people charged by by police for religious aggravation in Aberdeen and surrounding areas in 2010-14.
link to gov.scot
in any case I agree it is not so bad in Aberdeen.
but is that not the case with most cancers?
Bit O/T but I was asked to drop in on a client in Manchester a few years ago, he told me that my competitor had been in and gave a good presentation, then finished it off by mentioning his company was owned by a large shareholder in a Glasgow club, when asked the reliance he replied i just guessed by your Irish surname you were one of us! He asked my what planet was Scotland from!
why are they so desperate to get one of our lot to say there will be another indy referendum?
is it so they can jump up and down and say see the SNP are liars its about independence it always has been,which is a line i really dont get from them its not like its top secret or anything,shhhhh dont tell them we are for independence mums the word folks 😉
Maybe they think all their members who voted SNP did so out of protest or something ,and not because they have had their eyes opened to what the onions are really all about,and if so then they must think their ex members are pretty stupid ,got news for them they are not ,you should have listened to us when you had the chance now its to late.
@AndrewMcLean
Come on Andrew, these figures do not delve into the specifics of the religious aggravation, they might not all be to do with catholic/protestant, could be anti-semitic, anti-islam etc. In fact I’d wager that there are more anti-islamic arrests than those to do with the classical scottish sectarianism lol
Just to clarify, I mean in Aberdeen rather than Scotland.
@chalks says: 15 May, 2015 at 8:52 am :
“If I had my way the old firm would not be playing their football in Scotland.”
Actually, chalks, their main supporters are probably almost all several generations Scottish born. The problem then is the clubs have made money by encouraging the foreign flag stuff.
The OO influence is strong in the Ibrox faction and the RC in Celtic Park. The problem used to be almost as bad between Hearts & Hibs in Edinburgh but has decreased a lot since the 1950s. It used to be automatic in the Capital too. Catholic school boys followed Hibs & Protestants the Hearts.
By around the 1970s that had almost gone with it becoming more which part of Edinburgh you lived in. All it takes is the management to ignore the sectarianism. I remember when Rangers would not sign a catholic nor even one married to a catholic.
I remember them signing foreign players started to be acceptable and signing foreigners was acceptable but not signing a Glasgow born catholic. It was acceptable to sign a coloured guy, a Jewish guy no Catholics.
Now say what you like but that sort of thing was without doubt the fault of the management. In both managements this sort of thing is their fault.
So what if the managements banned countries flags and stuck to only football banners sans sectarianism and really became Scottish teams. Either that or clear off to whatever country will have them.
Reply to Robert Peffers
Well said Rab. I would invite all Old Firm bams to a free Old Firm match and have the guys with Alsation dugs and leather coats pack them onto Cattle trucks and drive them over the Border, say to Buckingham Palace and the Palace of Westmonster. I was going to say send the Sellick bams to Ireland, but Ireland has never done us any harm, or even deserves that lot misrepresenting them.
Wouldn’t it be nice if some future Government and SFA had the guts to tackle them head on and force them to amalgamate (if it is Only a fitba team) into “Glasgow United” and make them wear Blue and Green taps and the fans wear nappies.
How often do we have to hear that it is “only a minority” who behave like bams and that is was hooligans disguised as Celtic.Rangers fans. Aye, see thae hingers oan?
Undoubtedly robert, bigotry = cash for the old firm
@ Chalks
Table 6 ? you must have missed it?
@John King
As i said..just a thought but unelected rich folk are unelected rich folk…in 800 years perhaps the words of Lord Forsyth and Foulkes will be celebrated…oops Ive taken that too far lol
@ Chalks,
dam! i was too quick, should have taken you up on the wager!
Will Podmore at 9.05
Indeed it does – but they are subjected to a considerable volume of rules and regulations to allow them to do so without having any say in the framing of those rules and regulations
@desimond says: 15 May, 2015 at 9:01 am:
“Just a thought….is it hypocritical for folk to damn the current House of Lords but regale the Declaration of Arbroath considering who actually signed it?
Sheesh! Just keep that as just a thought, desimond.
Remember the times were very different and that Declaration of Arbroath was the very beginning of taking the totally complete power of what was effectively the Royal Person’s God Given birth right away from the Royal personage.
The first real step on the road to universal suffrage. The Kingdom of Scotland started on that road in 1320 but even in 1688, when England’s parliament took the Royal Veto over their parliament from their monarchy, they kept the Monarchy as the sovereign and that is still the law of England today. Remember it all legally still belongs to her Majesty Dan Sath.
That Declaration of Arbroath was to become the yardstick for the great democracies of the World and that includes the American Declaration of Independence. Yet again Scotland was leading the World to democracy.
That’s before Scotland lost her way by the Treaty of Union.
Robert
We wont accept any attempt to try and impose unwanted will of foreign leaders on our people
Is that an interpretation of Arbroath or last weeks Daily Mail?
No importance really but just interesting for a second to compare and contrast.
o/t
link to bbc.co.uk
YOU ARE NOT LAUGHING NOW!
@desimond says: 15 May, 2015 at 11:06 am:
“We wont accept any attempt to try and impose unwanted will of foreign leaders on our people
Is that an interpretation of Arbroath or last weeks Daily Mail?
The Declaration of Arbroath was written in French, (The international diplomatic language of the time). It was a letter to the Pope, (no sectarianism then as it was all just Christianity in Christendom), and the Pope was the international law of the time).
What I quoted is the relevant part of the declaration translated from French into English. The links go to two different translations on the entire Declaration.
I’ll give you now the really clever part of it. Bruce had killed the Comyn but had done so on the alter steps of Dumfries High Kirk.
The English King had egged on the Pope to class it as murder but there is absolutely no evidence that it was. It could reasonably have been self defence as the pair of contenders to the Scottish crown were alone in the Kirk.
Remember the English King had been requested to sort out which of the two had the best claim on the crown. He attempted to get either one of the contenders to swear fealty to The English crown to get him to decide in their favour. (Think Ragman Rolls).
So after the Pope excommunicated Roberts Bruce and under the law of Divine Right of Kings, it meant that Scotland, as a Kingdom, including all the Kings Subjects, were excommunicated. In fact the Pope ordered that every English church service began by cursing Scotland.
So the Declaration first declared Scotland as an independent country but continued by stating the King was not sovereign, (e.g. Had no divine right), and that if he did not do as the people of Scotland required him to do, the people could replace him with someone who would.
An unheard of concept in those days but you see the beauty of the matter?
First of all if the Monarch, under Scots law, was not sovereign and the people were, then the excommunication did not apply and Scotland was free to return as a kingdom. The English King could not take over and Scotland was free.
That is the main plank of Scottish Law even today. I’ll give you evidence of that. There is no English style Trespass law in Scotland and the people have right to roam. You can be prosecuted for invading privacy if you go too close to a dwelling and if you damage anything you can be sued for damages. No private person can clamp a vehicle on private land in Scotland and demand payment to release it. If they do they get charged with demanding money with menaces.
@Andrew McLean says:
15 May, 2015 at 10:41 am@ Chalks,
dam! i was too quick, should have taken you up on the wager!’
haha
@Aceldo Atthis
“The fact that a higher number of morons are into football than tiddlywinks says more about sheep and delusion than it does about sport.”
You my friend are talking bollocks. As vice-chairman of a Highland League football club I can tell you our committee on an almost daily basis provide the admin and finds the financial support required to run the senior team, in a very competitive league.
This is not an ego trip for any of us, we are all volunteers, we do this because we believe the football team is a community asset. With that in mind I can tell you we are proud of our Youth Development Program where our youth coaches manage and train the under 13s, under 15s and under 17s teams.
The idea that the kids come because they believe they will be the next Lionel Messi is errant nonsense. They obviously want to be the best they can, but ultimately they’re doing it because they love the game and the camaraderie.
Their parents are happy with this because they would rather support the kids do something they enjoy than watch them become the heroin addicts you seem to think is their only other option.
Mon the Cans!!
heedtracker answered my question, “Doesn’t the EU allow non-members to trade with it then?” by writing No. So the EU doesn’t trade with the USA, Japan, Norway, Switzerland? Dave McEwan Hill rightly wrote that of course the EU does trade with non-members.
Donald Anderson tries, but fails, explain my party’s politics. Just to clarify, I am a member of the CPBML. We work for the unity of the whole British working class. We did not ally with the RCT. We oppose federalism.
But one thing Donald did get right: “You should read their publications”: Workers.org.uk
Will Podmore says:
Donald Anderson tries, but fails, explain my party’s politics. Just to clarify, I am a member of the CPBML. We work for the unity of the whole British working class. We did not ally with the RCT. We oppose federalism.
But one thing Donald did get right: “You should read their publications”: Workers.org.uk
Sorry Will. My mistake. I was sure you said CPGB, ML. I did not realise that you were with that other British Nationalist Party. The CPB, of course, as you say the CPB had no involvement with the SSP or their British Onionist platforms.
Long time reader, first and probably only time commenting. This issue has really annoyed me.
The football issue – some of you seem to be taking it a little personally, and it is showing you up for the hypocrites that you are. The reason they are being referred to here as “Rangers” is because they DIED. They went bust, with millions of pounds of debts, owed to creditors all over Scotland, the UK and the rest of the world. I don’t really have to provide any links, a cursory Google search will provide adequate reference to these facts. I am of the understanding that we are really into truth and facts here at Wings, so anyone unfamiliar with those facts should probably sharpen their act up.
The Scottish print media has almost always served to indulge the world view of the supporter of the “establishment club” here in Ecosse. No real conspiracy theory there, they are selling newspapers to a very large demographic within Scotland, and any capitalist with a modicum of business sense would pander to this large demographic in order to sell piles of their rags. However, when you look what they are pandering to, and the kind of worldview that they have to roll with, then that’s where things start to get a wee bit too ker-azy for me.
So, all of my 36 years brought up in good ole Presbyterian West Lothian (it’s not a just West coast thing – I don’t live anywhere near the west coast, in fact I live only 12 miles west of Edinburgh). I’ve had to put up with “Rule Britannia”, “God save the Queen”, anti-Scots rhetoric, paramilitary style flute bands banging bass drums through my village, sectarian singing everywhere that their drunken fans and minions go, their “red hand salutes” (aye right then..), and of course all of their contrived “Britishness”. A bunch of demented, uneducated savages who can’t even properly work out who they would have supported during WW2 because of the maelstrom of conflicting nonsense birling about in their confused wee heids.
I am not painting an obscene picture, or exaggerating anything – this is the norm in many Scottish villages in West Lothian, Ayrshire, Lanarkshire, Fife, and beyond. You know these people as well as I do. There are a lot of them in these parts. This maybe isn’t every “Rangers” supporter, but it’s fair to say if it isn’t most of them, then it’s certainly a sizeable minority. Most of these people, if they even vote – are going to vote UKIP, BNP, Tory, or Labour depending on just how demented they are. None of the Billy boys, the red hand salute guys, the C18/neo-nazi element will ever vote green, socialist, SNP – and wouldn’t vote to “break up” the UK. That’s never going to happen, it just isn’t in their right wing unionist political vocabulary to do so. In the exact same way that I can never, ever vote Tory, New Labour (or unionist).
Why, all of a sudden then, are there people on here getting their knickers in a twist when the author, and presumably owner/administrator of this blog/site is stating facts about a certain dead football club? We are supposed to be against the media spouting its utter bullshit and tripe when it comes to matters of Scottish independence – in fact, we roundly condemn and laugh at their pathetic lies, often highlighted by the Rev himself. It seems there is a massive double standard then, when it comes to football for some of the readers here.
We are all (mostly) here as we have an interest in Scottish independence, I’m sure there are commenters from all sides of the political spectrum, and people from all walks of life who are on board with Scottish independence – we can probably all agree on this one thing. To expect us all to agree on everything else is frankly unrealistic. However, for people on here wishing us to tow the “official” media line about “Rangers”, then you have got it all wrong – are we just to accept all the lies, deceit and bullshit that the media hits us with regarding Scottish independence in the same way that you are trying to get us to swallow this “Rangers didnae die” mythology? Because I think that would pretty much make Wings redundant if that were the case. It’s you lot that need to wake up and accept the truth about your football club. It’s DEID.
We have to be clear about facts and truth here – a LOT of lies were told during the referendum campaign which hurt our cause of Scottish independence. Lies, smears and deceit against our cause continue to be perpetuated by the UK establishment media every single day – much of their pish is brought here for us to scrutinise for the nonsense it is.
We can’t be expected for one minute to pander to the puir wee sowels whae cannae bear that their club is deid. It would go against every truth seeking bone in my body, and as I’ve mentioned – what would even be the point of this site if the Rev was to start accepting and perpetuating establishment lies regarding football teams as the truth? Aye, let’s just totally bin independent thought and objectivity because some bitter wee football fans have thrown their toys out of the pram. That folks, is pandering to idiocy, something that has gone on too long in this country anyway, especially with regards to that odious little club and its “loyal” supporters. We may as well just accept all the other unionist drivel regarding Scottish independence – especially if we’re going to start rewriting history just to keep “Rangers” fans happy, ach weel – ah’ll away and eat ma cereal then. I apologise for nothing.
Smiley face.
Aceldo Atthis : you’re talking out your arse and are a dumb troll. Robert P….pedantic as ever, but I forgive you because you do your best to educate the many who were starved of Scottish history at school.
My contribution earlier was regarding the BBC. I mentioned in passing Rangers and the deliberate pro British Unionist promoted by the club/business which is the only real blight on our game.
For people on here to deny Football’s good influence on children being encouraged to play it is plain daft. And the caricature of hooliganism etc. is well out of date.
The real point is this: The success of our teams and more importantly our national team is an important part of a country’s psyche.It is healthy nationalism as all sport is.
When in the distant past, Scotland went to World Cups the atmosphere in the country was electric. Many have forgotten that 100,000 crowds were common.
I’m afraid the nearest popular sport..that of rugby… comes a poor second and is dominated by Proud Scotbuts who’d probably be happier playing for England.
Scottish football which has 42 professional clubs with at least 300-500,000 adherents, passive or otherwise is currently receiving £1 million pounds per annum. The English game receives £68 million. The BBC today announced that this would not change due to ‘market forces’ dictating ‘popularity’ of the English game.
So there you have it fitba haters…..the inequality of treatment by the accursed and imperial minded BBC in action again. Is that not worth getting angry about?
If we got the £5.5 million we’re due on population split. maybe we could put some of it into tiddlywinks or troll tossing. Or more likely into proper training facilities for our children.
Another payoff to a campaign against this arrogant bastion of British bastards would be to unite the ‘Old Firm’ on the side of the rest of the Scottish clubs….’cause they ain’t going nowhere else!
Wot’s the betting that Slabs and Lib Dummies will back Dodgy Dave Cameron against Nicola and Scotland?
ronnie anderson,
“As a long time contributor to this WOS (& much appeciate the Revs MODERATION )
He is no way my Servant & I sure many others on here will agree with that statement.”
Ronnie, could you too learn a lesson and stop calling those who don’t agree with your views trolls?
Not only is this blog the best example of free speech in the country, it is the most professional piece of journalism.
Unlike the Pravda GB tax and MPs’ salaries, this site is free and open to everyone, everywhere.
Thepnr,
“Those that disagree with the majority view on here are most welcome.”
“Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.”
The majority view in Scotland on here is anti-Tory.
But Tory huggers too are most welcome on this site, for entertainment value mostly.
@ Robert Peffers
To quote Gandhi: “The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated”
link to tinyurl.com
I’d be happy to discuss whether fishing is a “sport” all day. Facts are on my side.
Advocating cruelty is not clever or civilised.
Stand Free
When Ghandi was asked what he thought of Western civilisation he said that he thought it would be a good idea.
I cant believe this. Sure I wont miss MOTD or BBC news but we’ll be missing out on shows like mock the week and have I got news for you. Surely its worth putting up with some of the anti-Scottish sentiment, that we should all be used to by now, for the sake of such fantastic shows like these,
ReidP says:
“I cant believe this. Sure I wont miss MOTD or BBC news but we’ll be missing out on shows like mock the week and have I got news for you. Surely its worth putting up with some of the anti-Scottish sentiment, that we should all be used to by now, for the sake of such fantastic shows like these”
Naw we can always import them odd ntur programme of English wild life. Not that they have any, apart from the EDL and Chelsea fans.