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Everybody’s friend

Posted on April 12, 2013 by

    124 to “Everybody’s friend”

    1. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      What was the date of this originally Rev?
      I see Hillary Clinton as the US Sec of State

      Just for journalistic precision, like.

    2. antmcg says:

      to Bugger  (The Panda) the date is :
      Trafigura & Vitol sell fuel to Syria despite Clinton’s call for boycott
      13/08/11 12:10 CET

    3. ShredderIsAlive says:

      I was the one who said it on Twitter and I’ll say it here too.

      The most appropriate response to Ian Taylor and his lawyers is to refer him to the response given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.

      I love watching the fallout from this, as not only has Streisand Effect kicked in, Vitol and Mr. Taylor’s dodgy business dealings are being looked into further and further. This will make for interesting discussion at future Parliamentary sessions or First Minister’s Questions.

    4. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Got it.
      It is Friday night and I am in a different time zone..

    5. DMW42 says:

      Are Trafigura and Vitol ‘connected’ in any way? I recall Trafigura having somewhat of a ‘chequered’ track record.

    6. Graham Ennis says:

      So Vitol is working with Trafigura……..who themselves are even more notorius. You could’nrt makwe this up.So here we have an international oil company, that can now be linked to others. It could’nt, could it, be linked to the fact that Scotland has about a trillion pounds value of oil and gas to be stolen, after a NO vote?…….surely not!.
      I must be a “Conspiracy theorist”.

    7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Toxic oil dumping in Africa
       Nasty, nasty

    8. Robert Louis says:

      I recall this;
      So, let me get this right, Ian Taylor, the president of vitol was reportedly a major donor to the Tory party.  Has donated half a million to the campaign to prevent Scottish independence.  
      Scotland is home to the majority of Europe’s oil and gas reserves.  The licensing is currently controlled by the Tory Government in London, but Scottish independence would remove control from the Tory government in London……
      Follow the money, as Alex Salmond says. This just got very, very interesting.

    9. Juteman says:

      Glad to see you took that warning letter seriously. 🙂

    10. ianbrotherhood says:

      This link is to a campaign a bit closer to home than Africa, where small communities in Co. Mayo, Eire, are dealing with Shell-related shenanigans.
      Worth a look if for no other reason than it contains some illuminating data on the West Coast reserve estimates. Here, in Ayrshire, locals have long known about the huge reserves ‘out there’. 

    11. Robert Louis says:

      Just where is Alistair Darling when you want him??

    12. vronsky says:

      Taylor defied Killary Clinton and the CIA campaign to destabilise Syria?  So he’s not all bad then? This is getting complicated.

    13. mato21 says:

      This from 2008 but still true today
      Alistair takes his opinions from whoever’s his boss He’ll have been told to lie low no doubt

    14. rabb says:

      Looks like Vitol have a vested interest in ensuring Scotland stays in the UK.
      If I read the article correctly they have control of 40% of Black Sea Russian oil. The main source of oil in southern Europe what with Iran etc being “out of bounds”.

      It looks quite cut and dried really.

      Mr Taylor “donates” to the tories in order to ensure they have their slice of North Sea oil and control as much of the European supply as they can. He then donates to the no campaign to ensure a no vote is returned in 2014.

      With the above in the bag Vitol can control oil prices on the Dutch spot market.

      If the above is true then Westminster truly is a stinking cesspit of corruption and Mr Taylor is no more concerned about Scotland than he is about the pot of yoghurt in his fridge that’s about to go past it’s sell by date.
      I think the games up. Mr Darling MUST hand this money back to Taylor now!
      If your reading this as an undecided folks then please do yourself a favour and vote Yes to rid ourselves of this greed and corruption.

    15. mato21 says:

      I wonder if Derek Bateman will pick this up for discussion tomorrow morning

    16. the rough bounds says:

      I’ve just recently read a novel (fiction) that was first published in 1973. (40 years ago…wow!). It was written by Michael Sinclair, whose real name was Michael Shea, a Press Secretary to the Queen apparently.
      The book was typical of the baloney being published at the time and predictably portrayed a Scotland that was struggling to stay solvent after independence. (The oil had run out after only a few years of course…oh, and it was nearly always raining)
      The one interesting thing about this book is that it’s about a take over of Scotland by American big business. They, the corrupt ‘Bondi Corporation’, buy off everybody in the police and government that they can, and control the press and the media.
      Not a million miles some would say, from what appears to be happening at the present time.

    17. Craig M says:

      Robert Louis
      Someone gets a big slice of the oil contracts for making a contribution to the No campaign and in return, Mr Darling gets a peerage, pension, or whatever. What I find exasperating is the sheer brass neck of them all; it is so blatant.
      Darling probably, in fact obviously sees the world in a different light. I think that’s how we must start to try and understand these events. For Darling is devoid of simple humanity. The more I see of the man, the more I listen to his words, the more I begin to see him for what he actually is. Have a look at this link and see if you can recognise behaviours.
      If this is treading dangerous waters or crossing a line, feel free to remove.
      But I read this and then examine the behaviours of some of the BT mafia and I really do wonder what it is we are really up against. 

    18. steven luby says:


    19. the rough bounds says:

      Oops! I neglected to say that the novel I wrote about earlier (9.18.) was titled, ‘The Dollar Covenant’.

    20. ianbrotherhood says:

      Is this a Viking feast day or what? Just wondering what happened to you-know-who.
      After a few consecutive days of hyperactivity, he seems to have gone awfy quiet – could it be that his usual spiel doesn’t quite lend itself to this topic?

    21. Jiggsbro says:

      Dirty oil money possibly going to the Better Together campaign is precisely why the Yes campaign has to involve more than just the SNP fanatics. We need to hear from all the parties that object to English-based businessmen with shady pasts, not just the SNP and their fanatics. Time for the Greens, or the SSP, or whichever other pro-independence party I’m pretending to support, to be heard over the shrill cries of the fanatical SNP elements.
      Will that do?

    22. ianbrotherhood says:

      It’s as if he’s in the room!

    23. Dcanmore says:

      @Jiggsbro …
      oh gawd! are you on the same medication as the ‘other bloke’? 🙂

    24. Dal Riata says:

      FFS ib, don’t be tempting fate! It’s been going well today…so far!

    25. ianbrotherhood says:

      Oh well, the least he deserves is a decent send-off and a drink.
      All speed to Valhalla Norsey!


    26. Yesitis says:

      “Will that do?”
      Dinna, man. Eh pure got a fleg.

    27. ianbrotherhood says:

      Finished that can yet?…right, stick it in the recycling bin…no, not that one, the blue one…right, that you ready?
      Okay, cheers, and fare thee well in the afterworld an aw that…aw feck, these matches are damp…Ragnar, naw, no you, Ragnar the Unready I’m talking tae, see’s that lighter over eh?…right, that’s us, we’re cookin wi’ gas noo…

    28. Patrick Roden says:

      OT but crucial, I have spoken to three collegues at work in the West Midlands this week about politics. All three have told me that they now intend voting for UKIP ! All three say they are previous Labour voters who now feel that the Three parties are all the same. One said that UKIP are the only party who are speaking up for the ordinary English.
      This could have a masive bearing on the vote in 2014.

    29. The Dog says:

      Granted, fuel is a worldwide traded commodity but …?
      I’m painting the hall at the moment but coming back through from t2t to check what’s going on.
      Well done to all who have taken time to dig about.
      I’m thinking to myself if this is the sum so far of what’s in the public domain, what the hell might be going on in the boardrooms?
      Of course it’s a mug’s game to think about conspiracy…I’m sure these actions have, so far, been honest misunderstandings in Serbia, Congo, Nigeria, Iraq, Iran and Syria.
      It’s a complicated business is oil and gas. Thanks goodness Westminster takes care of it all and we don’t have to worry our silly little heads about it.

    30. Dal Riata says:

      Well, well, yer man Taylor and the company he ‘represents’ are all over the internet for, um, accusations of impropriety, are they not!?
      This is from and dated 5 Feb 2013:
      Total, which faces up to a 1.88 million euro ($2.55 million)fine, has denied corruption and influence-peddling allegations.
      The case also comes at an awkward time for Vitol, which has recently made headlines for dealing in Iranian fuel oil .
      While Vitol’s Iran deal was not illegal since it was executed by a trading branch outside the jurisdiction of European sanctions, it raised scrutiny of the traditionally secretive company and its British CEO, Ian Taylor.
      In the Iraq-related case, Vitol is accused of corrupting foreign public agents between 2000-2003 and faces a fine of 750,000 euros ($1.02 million).
      Two weeks ago, a judge overruled a constitutional challenge brought by Vitol’s attorney, who had argued the company could not be judged in France as it had already been convicted of oil-for-food offences in a New York court.
      According to the investigation, Vitol paid about $582,000 to Serge Boidevaix, a French ex-diplomat and former Total executive, to presumably procure oil allocations from Iraq.
      The investigation found that Taylor asked that payments for the oil be made through an intermediary named Peakville which prosecutors say was intended for “discreet payments.”
      Vitol declined further comment on the case.
      The trial is scheduled to run until Feb. 20. ($1 = 0.7376 euros) (Writing By Alexandria Sage; Editing by Leslie Adler)”
      Hhmm, these oil companies, eh…

    31. Rod Mac says:

      However as far as BBC or STV are concerned it is not even worthy of a mention 

    32. Arbroath1320 says:

      Steven I can’t help that much but I believe Peter Bell was suspended for about 2 days before he got back onto Twitter. Nice to see Twitter doing the dirty work of others too scared to come out and talk the TRUTH!
      With regards to Better Together and this “dirty money”gate that is continuing to grow personally I hope they do NOT return the money. In my view the longer they hold on to the money the MORE people have a chance to read about Vitol and Ian Taylor’s dealings past and present. As Rev has highlighted today the longer the money remains with Better Together then the longer people have to do some digging of their own and the MORE information is uncovered. Unfortunately for certain individuals NONE of the latest information that has done anything other but raise even MORE questions.
      The longer questions are raised about certain individuals then MORE questions will continue to be raised about Better Together, their credibility and their honesty for starters. I think it is only a matter of time now before we start to see the first, of many, breaks within the Better Together campaign. I do not believe the Better Together campaign can realistically recover from this now growing expenontially problem that is Vitol and Ian Taylor donations.

    33. Angus McLellan says:

      I see there is yet more ill-informed oil-related nonsense from the separatist moles at the FT today. Why won’t these so-called experts listen to people like Darling, Cameron, Moore and the rest who know what they’re talking about? Spreading these kind of stories is dangerous. It might persuade some foolish people in Scotland that they too could live in a country with an oil fund, like Norway has if rather smaller, if they just vote Yes in 2014. But that’s simply ridiculous as we all know. Almost as crazy as the idea that they would have 12x as much say in how their money is spent by voting Yes.

    34. DMW42 says:

      Jiggsbro / ianbrotherhood
      Brilliant wie a bigsmileyfacedthingy. The Home Secretery’s gonna kill me for spilling beer all over the carpet but, brilliant and well worth the slap.

    35. creag an tuirc says:

      OT: Blair Jenkins latest positive speech

    36. Richard Lucas says:

      Some astonishing tweets from the BTs tonight:
      <blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p>More overreaching by <a href=””>#yesscot</a> voices today. Legal action by an individual cannot &amp; mustn’t be described as “unionists shutting down debate”.</p>&mdash; Duncan Hothersall (@dhothersall) <a href=”″>April 12, 2013</a></blockquote>
      <script async src=”//” charset=”utf-8″></script>
      <blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p>@<a href=””>c9j</a> I’d use the devil’s money to do good.</p>&mdash; Duncan Hothersall (@dhothersall) <a href=”″>April 12, 2013</a></blockquote>
      <script async src=”//” charset=”utf-8″></script>
      I think they are all in denial, DH has always struck me a principled sort.

    37. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Rod Mac-
      Aye, but how can they possibly get through this weekend without mentioning it?
      Let’s imagine GMS tomorrow morning – what’s a plausible running-order?
      Heightened security in London ahead of anticipated demonstrations in Trafalgar Square celebrating the death of Thatcher…
      Sabre-rattling over the Korean peninsula…
      Baby-ashes scandal…
      ‘Ding-Dong’ set to be Number One in the charts on Sunday…
      Neil Lennon ‘Stushie of The Week’…
      Off the top of me heid, that seems a fair line-up, eh?
      So, where will Taylorgate slot in?
      They have to deal with it somehow – even a cynic like meself daren’t imagine that they’d have the gall to ignore it entirely.

    38. Albert Herring says:

      Just a thought. Is this a put up job? Dave’s had a wee word in his mate’s lug – another torpedo for BetterTogether.

    39. ianbrotherhood says:

      I’m posting too much, sorry, but…
      …as well as returning Taylor’s dosh, or handing it over to the relevant authorities (as they clearly have to) will BT also undertake to donate whatever interest they have accrued on that money to ‘good causes’?

    40. cirsium says:

      @rabb – I agree.  Add in fracking and the future looks dire for Scotland if we do not achieve independence in 2014.
      thanks jiggsbro and ianbrotherhood.  I needed a laugh after reading rabb’s comment and link.

    41. rabb says:

      So, where will Taylorgate slot in?
      It won’t slot in anywhere. Have you no idea what’s going on in the country just now?
      The nation is in uproar over the Camanachd Shinty league reconstruction. Skye and Newtonmore are going ape shit by all accounts!

      There’s even talk of a special annual meeting FFS!!

    42. Linda's back says:

      With due credit to Derek Bateman whom I admire coverage on GMS will not have much impact this must get coverage on prime time TV to have any traction as we cannot rely on the supine Scottish press, with notable exception of Robbie Dinwoodie, Iain Macwhirter and Ian Bell at Herald to give this the oxygen of publicity.
      Papers like the Scotsman are ignoring the issue and to date have not published a single letter on the five day old controversy.
      Papers are entitled to be biased but the BBC is NOT.

    43. Adrian B says:

      News From The OHBC

    44. ianbrotherhood says:

      That’s serious stuff. For the likes of me it’s best left well alone. (One of the characters was even accusing others of ‘cack-handed intransigence’ – crivvens!)
      ‘Shinty Reconstruction’?
      It’s a minefield…give me ‘Nuclear War Looms’ anytime. 

    45. madmax says:

      Libya, Latvia, Uganda, Kazakstan, Iraq, Iran, Congo, etc.
      Vitol does get itself in a lot of bother.

    46. Dal Riata says:

      Just been reading about Vitol’s incredibly dodgy ‘dealings’ with the likes of warlord Arkan during the disintegration of the former Yugoslavia…Jesusleezus, it reads like a Hollywood movie script with baddies…lots of baddies…
      …murdering warlords, Tory politicians, UN sanctions busting, ‘fixers’, dodgy businesmen, illegal payments, double-dealing, henchmen, fraudulent insurance claims, missing millions, friends in the right places, etc. 
      Better Together, eh! Vote ‘No’…or else!!!
      Hello, the UK’s broadcast and print media?..Hello?…HELLO? Anybody there?          

    47. douglas clark says:

      To be fair to the Herald, they are still batting away on this one.

    48. Adrian B says:

      creag an tuirc linked to this earlier – I know that many don’t click all the links, so here is the link and text to Blair Jenkins latest positive speach
      Extract of a speech by Blair Jenkins, chief executive of Yes Scotland, to a Yes West Lothian business and community dinner on 12 April, 2013.
      There are clear contrasts emerging between the two official campaign groups in the independence referendum. And the last week has highlighted those differences in ethos and approach between Yes Scotland and the anti-independence Better Together.
      It’s not just that Yes has been much more visible and audible throughout Scotland, a genuine grassroots movement with more than 150 local groups now up and running and new ones emerging every month. It’s not just that we hold more events, get bigger turnouts and have much more enthused and energised volunteers.
      What is even more obvious is that the Yes campaign for independence is funded by the people of Scotland, while it turns out that the No campaign is largely funded by a Tory donor in the south who is not even eligible to vote here.
      Yes Scotland has support from people of all parties and (like myself) none. On our board are Patrick Harvie of the Scottish Greens and Colin Fox of the Scottish Socialist Party; we also have distinctive non-party voices like Pat Kane and Elaine C Smith; and of course, the formerly Labour but now formidably independent Dennis Canavan is our Chair. Yet Better Together asserts in the face of this evidence that “Yes Scotland is simply an SNP front.” The smears start here.
      Yes Scotland runs a positive campaign and we never indulge in personal or sweeping attacks. Better Together says (falsely and again without producing any evidence) that we are part of a “co-ordinated dirty-tricks campaign”. The smears go on.
      Yes Scotland wrote to Better Together in January proposing that the two campaigns should co-operate on the timing and content of information released on campaign donations. Better Together neither acknowledged this approach nor accorded us the basic courtesy of replying.
      The differences extend into social media. Yes Scotland is significantly stronger on Facebook, Twitter and Youtube. Perhaps that’s because we encourage discussion and invite questions. Better Together has no such facility and routinely blocks comments on its Facebook page by contributors with dissenting points of view. We believe that the people of Scotland deserve an open, informed and courteous debate.
      The Yes campaign sees the potential of Scotland and the amazing possibilities offered by independence.
      Better Together sees only problems and pitfalls in what it calls “separation”, with even our oil reserves considered a liability.
      Yes Scotland offers a vision of Scotland playing a full role in the community of nations.  The No campaign offers what we already know amounts to real “separation” – Scotland cut off from the top tables of international institutions, such as the EU, and with David Cameron and William Hague our representatives abroad.
      Yes Scotland speaks out clearly on the key economic, social and moral issues affecting Scotland’s people but which Scotland’s people do not yet control. We have demonstrated that Scotland can afford to be a fairer, more prosperous nation.
      Better Together maintained a deafening silence on Tory welfare cuts, yet were happy to justify the unwanted Trident nuclear weapons on the Clyde as the “ultimate guarantee of our national security”.  
      This is the essence of Yes versus No – hope versus fear; positive versus negative; the future versus the past.

    49. Seasick Dave says:

      To be fair to the Herald, they are still batting away on this one.

    50. The Man in the Jar says:

      Hopefully this weekend Lamont, Davidson, Darling, Rennie, McDougal and the rest of the cabal will attend an urgent extraordinary meeting. The purpose of this meeting will be to rub each other down with a catering size drum of Calamine lotion to relieve the itch of hundreds of thousand midge bites each! Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    51. Jiggsbro says:

      They have to deal with it somehow – even a cynic like meself daren’t imagine that they’d have the gall to ignore it entirely.
      You need practice, grasshopper. As a black-belt cynic, I don’t even imagine they’d need gall to ignore it. A word from a lawyer should do.

    52. douglas clark says:

      Seasick Dave,
      Here’s the link:

      I believe that, they too, received a lawyer’s letter.

    53. scottish_skier says:

      Albert Herring says:
      Just a thought. Is this a put up job? Dave’s had a wee word in his mate’s lug – another torpedo for BetterTogether.
      Well I suppose they would have gambled on getting the 1/2 a million back, which I expect they will.

    54. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Scottish skier
      Your comment has just reminded me. How long is it till poling for this period gets published? I have been reading that BT donations went up during the EU membership stooshie. I’m wondering what effect the Taylor donation row will have. Also the SoS Saltire / Swastika insult. I notice that there has been extra funding going towards Indi. Media sites recently especially NC and probably to “Yes” as well. I suppose it will depend on media coverage. We live in interesting times.

    55. scottish_skier says:

      Thatcher’s state funeral is an interesting one too.
      Polls suggest a lead balloon north of the Cheviots.
      Some areas in England and Wales giving good competition, but Scotland well out in front by a comfortable margin.

    56. ianbrotherhood says:

      Seriously? They’ll rubber it altogether?
      If so, that’s it. The ba’s on the slates, game’s a bogey…
      For a lot of folk, that will be it. Nae pretence any more – it’s not about ‘democracy’ or ‘debate’, it’s just about ‘oil’.
      I hope you’re wrong man. I really do.
      We’ll soon see, eh?

    57. scottish_skier says:

      @The Man in the Jar
      Patience is required. Things are not going BTs way poll wise. They sort of were, but never were (?); something of an illusion. Just like late 2010/early 2011 I suspect.

    58. The Man in the Jar says:

      Forgot about Thatcher. Selective memory?
      Canny wait 🙂

    59. The Man in the Jar says:

      Thinking about the events of the last week. Thatcher, Taylor, SoS Saltire. What makes me chuckle is thinking about the Bitter together lot. I believe that they all genuinely thought that the referendum was a shootie in, a walk in the park a distraction. With the good old BBC on their side what could go wrong?
      My small donation to Wings now seems even better value than ever. I will add to it when funds available.

    60. Albert Herring says:

      I thought the next torpedo would be the EU advice, but this is much more entertaining!

    61. Adrian B says:

      There was no press release on saving the union from Westminster last month (you know the ones that show we should be Independent), there hasn’t been one in April yet either. I suppose there is only so much good news that can happen at any one time.
      I wonder if we will hear from Darling before the middle of next week?

    62. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “DH has always struck me a principled sort.”

      He’s a nasty little reptile. You don’t know some things that I know.

    63. john king says:

      rev any plans for a recommend button on posts? by the time I get through them all I,ve forgotten who I was going to recommend

    64. Albert Herring says:

      Hmmm. Destroy the No campaign whilst raising the profile of pro-independence blogs. And it won’t have cost them a penny! I’m impressed.

    65. bunter says:

      Hmm the silence has been deafening from the NO campaign the last few days and I can only assume that they, and  British etablishment dirty tricks dept are at the moment beavering away with the help of BBC Labour on some new ”Salmond accused stories”.
      I know…they are all off to Maggies funeral………..

    66. Barontorc says:

      Derek Bateman gave the ‘dirty money’ from Ian Taylor an airing around 8.30 or so this morning with Robbie Dunwoodie commenting that Darling has said today he won’t be giving the ‘money’ back, so that’s that – move on. Dunwoodie also had the opinion that UK law permitted a donation from any part of the UK by a UK citizen, so Taylor’s half-million to NO was quite proper. He also said the lawyers have been busy and the Herald are ‘in correspondence’.
      So what of the guidelines and rules set by the Electoral Commission to keep things nice and ‘fair’ – donations from eligible Scottish referendum voters only permitted to donate – remember this? Or, is this the true bottom of the barrel, morally redundant, ethically devoid, cheating b’stard face of NO doing what it bloody well likes! Quelle surprise!
      So, with NO fallen at the first hurdle it’s crystal clear we need to involve an external monitoring body from Europe, these NO b’stards will stop at nothing, rules there to be broken. left right and centre!

    67. McHaggis says:

      Angus Robertson has just tweeted –
      Will raise ‘No’ campaign donor link with war-criminal Arkan on BBC @Sun_Pol_Scot with Scottish Sec @MichaelMooreMP tomorrow #indyref

    68. Handandshrimp says:

      Thought the piece on the radio this morning was quite good and they did cover clearly that Labour think Vitol money is dirty when given to the Tories and apparently “acceptable” when it is given to Unionists. Unionists must therefore logically have lower standards.
      I think Dunwoodie hit the nail on the hand though. The No camp can’t afford to return the money. I would be surprised if at least some of them aren’t gutted by that fact.

    69. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Has anyone actually checked the Scottish Register if an Ian Roper Taylor was born on Harris in 1956 or in fact anywhere in Scotland or England?

    70. mato21 says:

      There were 8 Ian Taylors born in 1956 in Scotland according to Scotlands people but as you have to pay for further information I didn’t bother None were registered in Harris however

    71. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      and now for something different by Klaus Nomi

    72. scottish_skier says:

      The No camp can’t afford to return the money.

      I was wondering about that too. Much of what they are claiming is in their war chest has not actually been given as such, just ‘promised’. The loss of Taylor’s cash would thus put a big dent in the bank account.

      Also, I understand Scottish Labour are in debt? 
      I’d be surprised if they had ‘spent it already’, but the fact they are holding onto it when really they should have given it back immediately upon being rumbled is odd.

      There is evidence to suggest the story is causing a lot of damage to BT and boosting YesScotland. The longer BT hold out on this the less likely they can extract themselves with any dignity.

      If they did give it back, could they get another sizeable donation not from a Tory? Why are there no wealthy Labour business figures happy to chuck in a big pile of cash…

    73. Macart says:

      Didn’t think they would hand it back Baron. In fact I’d have been genuinely surprised if they had, but just for once I’d say that’s a good thing. It’s certainly worth repeating to all and sundry at every opportunity. Not only is their campaign based on fear, misdirection and omission, but hypocrisy and contempt for even members of their own support and the general electorate. Their leadership’s moral compass is so screwed I doubt if they could find both cheeks of their arse without the use of a six man search party.

    74. bunter says:

      @ Barontorc
      Not sure about what they said on radio about ”UK” law.
      I Thought that there was such a thing as Scots law and as such that this is a Scottish referendum in Scotland under the supervision of the Scottish parlaiment.
      Think we need some clarity on this point.

    75. Richard Lucas says:

      I hope that Better Together hang onto their blood money right up until the referendum.  every time they issue a press release, stage a meeting, or pull a stunt, we will be able to remind the electorate that it was paid for by death and misery across the world.  We can remind people that Better Together have calculated that it is better to have the extra spending power than be credible or decent. We can remind people that this is the kind of calculation that has been going on for years at Westminster.  Every time Better Together spend one of their bloodstained banknotes, we will be able to cram it down their throats.

    76. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I suppose he could have been born in a hospital or clinic in Edinburgh but, the Roper bit in his name could the clincher.

    77. scottish_skier says:

      Also, what about the impact internally at Better Together? There are plenty of honest, nice people that for their own reasons support the union. We may think them misguided, but everyone has a right to their own beliefs. If these folk have signed up to help out BT how will they feel about Taylor’s rather dirty money? I’d imagine this could be causing a degree of division within BT itself in addition a bad reaction from the public.

    78. The Man in the Jar says:

      If Bitter Together don’t hand Taylor his money back this will be a stick to beat them with right up till referendum day. They are in a loose – loose situation. This should cause division in the ranks. I hope that they try to hold on to it before being compelled to hand it back. I can imagine the arguments within the No camp. Keep the pot boiling that is all we have to do.
      Ask the undecided how they think that the BBC / MSM would treat this if it was Yes Scotland that was in the wrong? “Dodgy legal advice” V “Dodgy £1/2m. Donation”?

    79. The Man in the Jar says:

      You beat me to it 😉

    80. Indy_Scot says:

      Apparently they have no intention of handing the money back, but then would you expect anything different.
      Buying the union with “dirty money”, some things never change.

    81. Macart says:

      Good point skier.
      I also know exactly how such news would have been greeted had the boot been on the other foot. The past five days would have been greeted with pages of releases, headlines, wall to wall broadcasts. It would have been carnage and even the average BT support must know this. Can they honestly look at this situation and say this is acceptable?

    82. Handandshrimp says:

      Got to love Klaus Nomi – excellent version of a rather silly song I see the Torygraph is championing the punk I love Maggie Thatcher song. It was a piss take at the time but I guess they view it as any port in a storm (I think she would have hated that and preferred Nomi) 🙂
      We must hope that the Nae Sayers keep the money it will cling their campaign like the ordure of a dead rat in the warm sun. It shoots their credibility in both feet. Better Together? More corrupt together more like. 

    83. The Man in the Jar says:

      I’m Wondering if some of them are so deluded that they think that if they wait till after Thatchers funeral and its aftermath we will have forgotten about all this. Aye Right!

    84. velofello says:

      The donation by Mr Taylor Chief Executive of Oil and Gas trader, Vitol PLC. was revealed in the Sunday Herald last week and since then more and more has been revealed of Vitol’s less than wholesome trading practises.
      What is surprising is that in parallel with this less and less has been publically spoken by any of the prominent persons of the Better Together campaign. i’m only aware of one person stepping out from the shadows, Blair MdDougal and his ludicrous claim of sleaze by the Yes campaign.
      Hoping a bad revelation will blow over is arguably often the appropriate political tactic but surely some reflection on your individual sense of personal esteem has to come into play? Belief among bloggers is that several Labour MSPs are pro-independence but party allegiance is paramount.
      .There is “home” for pro-Indy Labour MSPs whose self esteem just cannot accept the Vitol connection and the “dirty money” tag attached formerly by a Labour MP. Sign up with Labour for Independence. Still Labour, so they cannot be accused of being a “("Tractor" - Ed)”.
      Why on earth are  they dithering?

    85. mato21 says:

      Just to satisfy my curiousity and yours I have had another look No Ian Roper 3 have no middle name and 5 do but no Roper Births registered in districts of Aberdeen/Dundee/Glasgow/Stirling and one comes under Consular returns Either birth year is wrong or Scotland is not place of birth Hope this helps

    86. Handandshrimp says:

      To be honest it doesn’t matter where Taylor was born. The Nae Sayers would accept gold from Lucifer himself if they thought they could buy a few more leaflets.

    87. scottish_skier says:

      if they thought they could buy a few more leaflets.

      That’s a thing I’ve found rather odd when checking the BT site for the ‘latest news’.

      It seems a lorry dropping off pallets of new leaflets is considered a big exciting event worthy of front page announcement.

      I’ll let people make their own minds up about what this might mean.

    88. mato21 says:

      handand shrimp
      I agree with you regarding their disregard of where their donations may come from but it would just nail another lie that he was born in Scotland if he wasn’t Why lie? No need to answer that question

    89. Arbroath1320 says:

      BT appear to behaving like a rabbit caught in a car’s headlights. They are stuck almost frozen in time.
      They can NOT hang on to the money because every day they do the more people become aware of “dirty moneygate” and start finding out facts that neither BT, Vitol or Taylor would want to be uncovered.
      After this length of time BT can not hand the money back either. They have had almost a week where they could have handed back the money but haven’t. If they were to hand back the money now they would face even MORE questions particularly around why they held onto the money for so long.
      Thanks to the “rabbit ” syndrome BT now find themselves damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The only saviour they have had up until now has been the fact that the story has not broken out widely amongst the BBC/SKY/STV and the rest of the media. It can only be a matter of time now before someone else breaks ranks with the unionist media and covers this story to the further embarrassment of all concerned.
      I do have a lot of sympathy for grass roots BT supporters. Whilst I disagree with their views about the future of Scotland I do feel that a great many of them will be grossly embarrassed by this situation and they will see only one outcome, not one that will lead to a satisfactory result for BT.
      I think we are now entering a very interesting time in this Independence debate and it can only be the beginning of 18 months of hell for the BT campaign. No matter what lies, deceit or misinformation they try and push out they will ALWAYS be met with the accusation of accepting and then holding onto “blood money” and this is something that will NEVER go away. We all know how the BT campaign have NEVER answered any questions put them so far, holding onto the money will just make their continual silence on EVERYTHING just 100 times worse.
      From my personal; point of view I hope they do hold onto the money. The longer they keep it the worse it will become for them and we will, I believe, start to see massive cracks appearing from within the BT Campaign.

    90. Handandshrimp says:

      Well they are hardly likely to get excited about the content. Lorries are quite exciting though, especially when you are three.

    91. Seasick Dave says:

      It certainly keeps Grahamski from popping up for a troll.

    92. Marcia says:

      Would be interesting to find a BT stall so we can all ask awkward questions. Perhaps a silent picket next to them giving out the info on the donation. Wouldn’t the BT people like that?Working together, a one stop shop for info.

    93. Keef says:

      I enjoy reading your rebuttles on the gruniad. Glad you’ve graced us with your wit.

    94. Handandshrimp says:

      Thanks Keef
      This is a good site – I am glad it was linked on the Gruniard.

    95. EdinScot says:

      The deafening silence from the NO campaign is a well used tactic by them.  When their untruths or dodgy dealings are reaveled they know all they need to do is haud their wheesht as the msm particularly pravda on the Clyde have their backs.  If its anyone that has a concerted effort of collusion between politicians, certain members of the press and the broadcasters its them.  The thing is, they are being caught more and more with their pants at their ankles, its becoming a regular occurence and  many more members are becoming aware of this fact and seeing their propaganda for what it is. 
      Time and again this ‘silent’ treatment is making them look inept and corrupt and guilty as charged.  Who in their right minds is going to have any confidence in them, let alone gave their discredited campaign any more funds especially after this blood money debacle.  Its backfired spectacularly on them on them and like others have said, in one respect im glad that theyve refused to hand back the money as this will be a permanent stain on them right up to the big day.  Lets keep them where we put them on that rusty old hook, right where they belong.
      A lesson for them is that apparantly even a cat gets only nine lives.  I’d say theyve almost used up all of theirs.

    96. Scaraben says:

      I think you have a typo here with your reference to ‘Blair MdDougal’. Maybe you left out an ‘a’.

    97. scottish_skier says:

      Does make one wonder what life is like at ‘The Office’.
      Another oddity is the use of words such as ‘Happy’, ‘enthusiastic’ and ‘excited’ in relation to e.g. the latest campaign drive.
      Personally, I’ve never met anyone in my entire life who was ‘happy, enthusiastic and excited’ about being forced to do something they’ve spend their entire lives trying to prevent/avoid.

    98. creag an tuirc says:

      Talking about lorries full of leaflets, Here’s a mass of Better Together activists handing out thousands of them.

    99. EdinScot says:

      Arrgh i meant to insert in my post above ”more members of the public”.
      Was typing it like a whirling dirvlish…that’ll teach me to slow down;)

    100. ianbrotherhood says:

      Perhaps BT will defend acceptance of Taylor’s dosh on the grounds that they are pragmatic, that the outrage from Indy supporters betrays how naive we are, we wouldn’t be able to survive in the ‘real world’, dealing with the big boys etc etc.
      Over the past few days we’ve heard pretty-much the same logic retrospectively applied to Thatcher’s ‘achievements’ – ‘it wasn’t pretty, but someone had to do it’. 
      Roll on the next FMQs.

    101. Macart says:

      Good set of posts from you yesterday HS. Especially on that NATO non story which the usual suspects tried to make so much noise about. Wonder if they were playing a game of don’t look over here, look over there?

    102. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      interesting, so maybe his real connection with Scotland would be a parent or two born there.
      That would make me Chinese of course

    103. Keef says:
      What with all the present noise going on about the wicked witch song (It even made the 6 o’clock news here in Australia tonight) I thought this track was more poignant.
      The prophetic line “If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they’d send a limousine anyway”seems so apt for todays present climate.

    104. Marcia says:

      For you youngsters, as we run up to the 2014 referendum. This reprospective of the political period in Scotland of the 70’s in the run up to the  1979 Referendum will be of interest to you.
      Lessons have been learned from that referendum.

    105. velofello says:

      @ Scaraben; well spotted adding an “a” would work.
      And yet I keep believing I’m good at this typing thing. I did remark some time back that I was  first rate at spelling until spellcheck came along.

    106. mato21 says:

      Why I’m Supporting Better Together by Ian Taylor

    107. Keef says:

      A great link.
      I find myself yearining though to see that many people on the streets protesting and showing their determination.
      Whare are they now?

    108. Barontorc says:

      I’m still waiting for the Electoral Commission to comment on donations coming to either YES or NO from people who have no referendum vote. Are they a hopeless bunch of tossers or not?
      We really, really need outside monitors to oversee the referendum – that’s now a proven fact.

    109. EdinScot says:

      I’m still waiting for the Electoral Commission to comment on donations coming to either YES or NO from people who have no referendum vote. Are they a hopeless bunch of tossers or not?
      Agreed Barontorc.  One rule for them and another for everyone else that doesnt spout from the Unionist bible.  After the Wendy scandal, i had en email dialogue with the Electoral Commission.  As the outcome was revealed, i lost all truck with them.  In their world, why on earth did she resign then if all was rosy in the garden.  They have reduced us to no better than a banana republic.  Yes outside monitors need to see this to believe it asap.  Voting YES gets us out their cesspit.

    110. Adrian B says:

      Getting back to the press originally reporting that Ian Taylor was born in Scotland.
      I think ( and will check this out this afternoon that Blair McDougall argued that because he [Ian Taylor] was Scottish – he had an interest in the Referendum.
      There seems to be some quiet changing of the story of Scotland being the country of his birth from within the press. The piece he has on the ‘Better Together site reads thus:
      Like many who worked with ICI, my father – who died only last year – moved south from his native Ayrshire because of his employment.  He remained passionately Scottish until his dying day and brought up his family with the same values.
      Mr Taylor hasn’t (as far as I can tell), claimed to have been born in Scotland, he was born from a Scottish father from Ayrshire. The Lewis ‘connection’ may be one place where he/his family own a property.
      I am going to have a look at the episode of Newsnight Scotland from Wednesday to see what Blair McDougall said – will get back on this later. 

    111. ianbrotherhood says:

      Thanks for that link. Very interesting stuff.
      Curious coincidence – received an invitation from an ex-shipyard worker pal from college days to a book launch in Mitchell Library tomorrow. The book’s by Bob Starrett, the cartoonist who covered the UCS work-in etc, and was at Glasgow School of Art same time as us. One of his cartoons appears in the link, at 6.40-ish.
      Synchronicity an aw that…
      Turns out Starrett is still going strong, lives and works in Hollywood.

    112. Adrian B says:

      Update for my earlier comment.
      The Blair McDougall interview was from Scotland Tonight on Wednesday 10th April. Blair McDougall argued Sir Alex Ferguson’s £501 donation as he was Scottish, although from inside the UK.
      Blair McDougall did not say that Ian Taylor’s donation was made by a man who had been born in Scotland. The donation was made by a man who had invested in Scotland – siting in particular the Harris Tweed industry. (I paraphrase, interview available for a limited time on following link)
      I think ( and will check this out this afternoon that Blair McDougall argued that because he [Ian Taylor] was Scottish – he had an interest in the Referendum.
      The above is incorrect – Blair McDougall made the point that the donation in question came from within the UK. My bad.

    113. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Adrian B
      Does that mean Donald Trump, whose sainted Mother was born in Scotland could have a vote in the Referendum as he has also invested in Scotland?

    114. Heather McLean says:


      creag an tuirc says:
      13 April, 2013 at 12:00 pm

      Talking about lorries full of leaflets, Here’s a mass of Better Together activists handing out thousands of them.
      Quite handy that the “recycling point” is nearby for the unwanted leaflets! 😉

        creag an tuirc

    115. The Man in the Jar says:

      An alternative way of looking at this. Imagine for a moment that it was Yes Scotland that had accepted such a dodgy donation.
      Would you be like me and be sitting with my head in my hands and thinking “Oh No! We have fecked this right up”
      My guess is that half of Bitter Together are doing just that. The other half have their fingers in their ears and going La La La La La!
      Ian Taylor the gift that keeps on giving.

    116. Albert Herring says:

      “Here’s that list of dodgy donors you asked for, Prime Minister.”
      “Thank you. Now then, who would be the dodgiest of them all?”
      [sounds of telephone being dialled]
      “Hello Ian, lovely to have had you round for tea the other evening. Listen, I was wondering if you could do me a little favour….”

    117. Adrian B says:

      @ Bugger (the Panda)
      Does that mean Donald Trump, whose sainted Mother was born in Scotland could have a vote in the Referendum as he has also invested in Scotland?
      Only if like anyone else on the planet, he took up residency in Scotland and fulfilled the requirements of being listed on the electoral register in time.
      You certainly don’t need to have Scottish links to live in Scotland and/or be on the electoral register of Scotland – the same rules apply across the whole of the UK, it will be much the same in most countries across the world.
      Donald trump gives all Governments grief if he isn’t getting his way on things. He is a wealthy businessman who feels he is justified in using what ever means are at his disposal to sway public opinion in his favour. Most of the jobs he creates seem to be poorly paid.
      Donald Trump not worried about several oil tankers lying just off shore – but does not want wind turbines several miles out to sea. The Turbines are only a prop to beat the government with. Public opinion not on Donald’s side, but anything for cheep publicity. Shakes head, all about Trump?

    118. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      but he could give £500,000 to the No campaign!

    119. Adrian B says:

      but he could give £500,000 to the No campaign!
      He probably realises the size of the gift that would be to the ‘Yes’ campaign. Think ha has probably been advised against that error of judgement.

    120. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Heather McLean
      Someone already linked to that photo but I didn’t spot the “recycling point” 🙂
      My guess is the guys wee dug is a cybernat spying on Bitter Together.

    121. Jesus Margar says:

      You HOPE they don’t return the money?
      The machiavellianism of some Independence supporters is as disgusting as the one of those accepting the money.

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