The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Engaging with the plan

Posted on February 24, 2021 by

FOREWORD: SNP MPs writing for this website about anything, especially a Plan B for independence, shouldn’t be controversial. We as a party should welcome diversity and inclusion – as indeed we do by giving quotes to every daily UK newspaper and broadcaster, as well as occasionally providing articles and financial help for them.

I for one would prefer it if people would get over posturing about the messenger and deal with the more important message. So let’s get to it.

Away from the vacuous fuss and back on Planet Reality, Scotland needs to get out of the current UK parliamentary union. It is notable that among our similarly-sized near neighbours Ireland – who of course led the way on leaving the UK union – are at #2 on the UN World Human Development Index and Norway are at #1. We have nothing to fear but dithering. 

It’s already obvious that Scottish democracy once again will be utterly ignored by the UK Government after May’s election – for such is the nature of the Union – if we stick to a referendum-only plan.

Fortunately, the Scottish Government does now indeed recognise this reality, after quite a period of unsubstantiated and baseless hope that the UK Government would grant a Section 30 order.  It now seems to have been belatedly accepted that the UK Government is not going to write its own funeral notice.

However, the notice everybody has to pay attention to – and seemingly no matter how often it’s repeated, blind optimism seems to glide over the reality – is that nobody in the Scottish Government, or at any level in the SNP, can look the voters in the eye and honestly tell them that there will be another referendum before 2026.

There is still time, however, to use the upcoming election for a proper Plan B rather than wait until the 2026 election for one. “Plan B” is of course using the ballot boxes of the May election to let the Scottish people choose between remaining with the Boris Union or independence.

Democrats, firstly and fundamentally, must all agree that the ballot box, whether at elections or referendums, must be respected. Elections and referendums are democratically equal. Logically it follows that either a referendum or an election are legitimate processes to determine the will of the people.

Clearly, after 21 opinion polls on the trot for independence, Scots are owed a chance to vote for it at the next available ballot box, whether that be an election or a referendum.

The moment is now. Brexit has given, and continues to give, a multitude of reasons to leave the UK, whether it be the non-continuation of Erasmus for Scottish students or the shellfish debacle (which I warned the PM about in July 2018).

We cannot wait for an uncertain referendum, or for five years until the next election. That would mean a lot of students missing out and a lot of shellfish fishermen and companies gone bust, to name but two areas of Scottish life damaged by our remaining in the UK.

The current “Plan A” concedes that a referendum is not guaranteed. Point 10 of the “11-point plan” is to go to court, which is the equivalent in Monopoly of going to jail indefinitely until you throw a double six. As a plan to secure a vote any time in the next five years, it’s doomed.

So do we gamble that after the election the long shot of a referendum granted by Westminster succeeds, understanding that a (more probable) failure would mean no available ballot boxes for independence until 2026? As the late Seamus Mallon might have said, we in Scotland are at risk of making the 2026 election the 2021 election for slow learners.

One fortunate thing recently is those who used to bandy about terms like “illegal referendum”, “wildcat referendum” and “gold standard” have dropped this tomfoolery, and for that at least we must thank Mike Russell and his 11-Point Plan.

Such tomfoolery missed the very obvious point that the most democratic and internationally legitimate acts that can happen in a country are its elections. Everyone recognises democratic results when the people are asked. There’s one aspect of tomfoolery that still lives on however, and it’s when some postulate that Westminster or the international community might say “No” to the legitimate, democratic expression of the people of Scotland in a plebiscitary election.

However, unlike Boris Johnson’s consistent (and convincing) assertions that he’ll grant no more referendums for decades, nobody has actually said – either in Westminster or internationally – that they wouldn’t respect a Yes vote in such an election, and those who lack the strategic guile to use the elections for independence have underlined that lack of guile by not having the wit to check their baseless assertions by asking.

Indeed, Boris and his boys have been very careful NOT to say that they’d disregard an answer from the Scottish people on independence the way that they’d disregard yet another Section 30 request from the Scottish Government.

They obviously don’t want to be put in the same bracket as Lukashenko in Belarus, or Donald Trump recently in the USA, of denying the ballot box. Indeed, we can be certain that many senior English politicians have the common decency to make sure that doesn’t happen, so that their own reputations aren’t traduced internationally by such a stance.

If it’s not clearly established before 31 March that this year’s election can guarantee a referendum in the lifetime of the next Parliament, then the election will have been a massive wasted opportunity and there’s unfortunately a huge chance that the nation will have been sold down the river for years to come.

There is everything to gain for the SNP by making the election about independence. It’s a general truth that the party isn’t as popular as independence, so there’s nothing to lose by hitching the party to its primary reason for existence and riding its coat-tails. It’s a win-win for the SNP.

We could be on the way to independence just 11 weeks from now, on the strength of a clear and explicit mandate from the people that neither London nor the wider world would have any grounds to refuse – but Plan B is the only thing that can deliver it.

21 opinion polls in a row say that the people of Scotland want independence. In May, let’s just ask them straight out. Tha fior dheagh chothrom ann airson saoirse na h-Alba a nis, nach robh ann riamh rethid.

Angus MacNeil is an SNP MP.

Print Friendly

    203 to “Engaging with the plan”

    1. Muscleguy says:

      If enough people vote ISP2 we could get a supermajority in May. Which will enable the parliament to call a plebiscite election any time it wants. It will also be noticed by the international community who pay attention to such things.

      A supermajority parliament can simply declare Independence and be taken seriously as well.

      I understand Angus that as an SNP MP you cannot say the above. But it is still true.

    2. Scaredy cat says:

      Yes to that! It’s the only way the SNP will get my vote.

    3. Captain Yossarian says:

      Holyrood couldn’t govern Scotland in a million years. There’s a good chance, if we work to the same standards of probity expected in other countries, that several in Holyrood and St Andrews House will be going to jail before the year is out.

    4. Scott says:

      Thank you Brendan.

    5. Yoav Tzabar says:

      Why not add a question about independence – yes/no/unsure/don’t know – to the ballot paper in May? Kill two birds with one stone.

    6. Bob Mack says:

      There can be no plan B for Independence. It has to be a Section 30. I know this because I have just read Jason Michael McCanns article in which he points out very clearly
      that it is now law passed by the SNP.

      No, I didn’t know that either.

      Referendum Scotland Act 2020 makes it a legal requirement to obtain a Section 30 order from Westminster.

      You should read his blog. I could greet.

    7. Al Dente says:

      The problem with demanding another referendum on independence lies in how to implement a potential outcome in favour of an independent Scotland. No currency of its own, no hope of being admitted to the EU (because they don’t want to encourage separatists in Belgium, Spain, etc.) and.. .and.. and….
      Just get over it, folks.

    8. David Mackechnie says:

      Imagine we do go for this at this point with such short notice the absolute mayhem & blind fury of the yoons, what an awesome thought!

    9. Mr Blue Sky says:

      So the SNP want the Scottish electorate to ignore all their failings on education, health, jobs, drug deaths, poverty levels, and corruption, and make the election solely about independence.

      That would be most convenient for them. The opposition parties need to ignore the independence debate and go in hard on what a shit shower the SNP are, and how they have failed Scotland in most key areas with their slavish obsession with independence at whatever cost.

    10. “A society becomes totalitarian when its structure becomes flagrantly artificial: that is, when its ruling class has lost its function but succeeds in clinging to power by force or fraud”. Orwell

      The ‘United’ Kingdom is a failing colonial construct that cannot survive without the domestic deployment of military force. It’s for this reason the majority English working masses will end the British State themselves as they dissect #ToryAnalytica’s Brexit propaganda and in doing so, will deliver three sovereign Scots, Welsh & English democracies and a united Ireland.

    11. Graeme Hampton says:

      This plan B is the only way the SNP will get my vote in May

    12. Captain Yossarian says:

      @David Mackechnie – and we just sort it all out later, David? Is that the plan.

      I would give it another couple of weeks to see what Alex Salmond’s plan is.

    13. Patricia Spencer says:

      Agree Angus – I can confirm that the only way myself and my family will vote SNP in constituency is if May 2021 SP election is an unequivocal plebiscite for Independence.

    14. Scott says:

      @Captain Yossarian

      You seem to talk a lot of sense – nonsense.

      Stop posting drivel.

    15. Alison Brown says:

      We all know that 6th of May must be a plebiscite Election. All except Nicola Sturgeon and her cohorts! Thank you for reassuring us again Angus.

    16. Ian McCubbin says:

      Thanks Brendan for this.
      We need ISP2 to have majority Independence parties in Holyrood.
      The process is bigger than leader position.
      I agree with Muscleguy if this election is not declared a plebiscite.

    17. Heaver says:

      Go for it!

      It’ll throw all the sticks up in the air, make a right mess of “no you can’t”.

      It’s the only way I’ll vote for Sturgeon’s party.

      We can deal with her later.

    18. Derek Weir says:

      I lost faith in Sturgeon 4 years ago, I could see right through her agenda, I tweeted about it and I was mocked , she is the curse, she will never achieve indy, shes too cosy in her own wee world and doesn’t give a hoot about the wider Yes movement, hence why they do not wish a second indy party to become relevant. as a member of the SNP it will get my first vote, (frankly i don’t know how Colin Beattie gets in, he’s a mouse) but they will not get my second vote, i’ll not waste it on the SNP thats for sure.

    19. Scott says:

      @Bob Mack

      Referendum (sic) Scotland Act 2020 says nothing of the sort.

      Stop spreading disinformation

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2020/2/introduction/enacted

    20. The Isolator says:

      Plebiscite for Independence please,otherwise no votes in our household for SNP either 1 or 2.I resigned from the SNP and joined ISP with the online Hustings for us taking place on Thursday, so I’ll wait to see how that goes before pledging my list vote.Otherwise I will not be voting at all come May.Sad state of affairs having voted SNP for over 40 years ,both parents were staunch SNP activists too .They were from the fundamental wing for sure but we were more gradulist.No longer however.

    21. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Scott – you’re just attacking everyone and anyone who you don’t agree with. I’m saying exactly as Robin McAlpine said 6-weeks ago.

    22. Boaby says:

      I’d make a pact with the devil himself if Mays elections were to be plebiscitary. Sorting things out after would be a piece of cake compared to the brexit and financial covid shitstorm thats coming.

    23. Scott says:

      @Al Dente

      Get over yourself.

      Scotland isn’t seeking independence purely to rejoin the EU.

      The fear is palpable from those who want Scotland kept in this dysfunctional union.

    24. Dave M says:

      I agree with Scaredy Cat

    25. Old Fogey says:

      What a wasted opportunity.

      You could have used this platform Angus to unequivocally condemn what your party has done, and continues to do, to its former leader. Instead, we have this regurgitation about a Plan B which you know full well will be completely ignored by your party hierarchy.

      Time to step up to the plate.

    26. sam says:

      Agent Yossarian?

    27. Ottomanboi says:

      Under the ‘old rules’, the westminster modus operandi, it was sufficient for an independence party to gain a majority of westminster seats to initiate the process of independence. Westminster works on simple majorities, the SNP has had substantial majorities which it has failed to use. That is suggestive of an institutional lack of confidence, indeed fear of consequences.
      There is a psychological issue here that needs urgent attention.

    28. Ruglonian says:

      Thanks for laying this out here so clearly Angus.

      Now I have a handy link to use when talking to folk about this option. Always a useful resource to keep up one’s sleeve 🙂

    29. Iain says:

      It should be noted that there is no international agreement on how the combined Scottish and English parliament should be run. No agreement on how voting should work. No agreement that the Scots cannot hold Scottish only votes as we have English only votes now.
      If the act of union protected Scots law it stands to reason that Scots only votes should be possible.
      The SNP should schedule a Scots only vote on Westminster and so it soon.

    30. Liz g says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has said that she only wants to hold a vote on independence when she can win it .

      Well ….. Nicola you CAN win this vote…

      That’s what many of us have been telling you , so keep yer word and hold a vote you CAN win.
      What on earth is stopping you ?
      Otherwise many of us including yourself may get that September 19th feeling you spoke of , all over again this coming May.

    31. Robert Dickson says:

      Good stuff, Angus

    32. Effijy says:

      I, like anyone who takes 2 minutes to look into Scottish/U.K. politics
      can see there is rampant corruption and legislation that the vast majority
      are against.

      Government should be reflective of the people’s priorities.
      It isn’t.
      Westminster ignores Scotland whenever it isn’t insulting or abusing us.
      The SNP Government was to be a new voice to counter Westminster but we
      find they don’t want to work on the main policy that got them elected, they don’t
      give all members free access to conference, the overload their committees with
      the worst of woke to promote policies the policies the public while rail against.

      I dislike what is happening in so many corners of the SNP that I don’t have time to list them
      but yes I’ll likely vote for them, subject to a plebiscite election in May.

      At least if we become independent we can vote out the vile, the corrupt, the
      incompetent and the troughers out and keep them out.

      If not a plebiscite election then SNP and all the Unionist parties are on the same side
      and suggesting now is not the time.

      Never has, and never again has there been a better time.

      Boris hating Scots
      Needless Covid Death levels
      Blatantly corrupt PPE contracts
      Being ripped out of the EU against our wishes
      Every aspect of the Vow broken
      No possibility of Labour replacing the Tories at Westminster
      Rocketing unemployment figures
      Stripping Holyrood of devolved powers

      Turning machine guns on us is about the only thing that could be added to our cause!

    33. Liz g says:

      Bob Mack @ 8.48
      While that may very well be true Bob …. It’s a law for referendums , why would it apply to elections.
      I don’t think any law can dictate what a party puts in their manifesto .
      And it’s all the more reason to go down the election route too.

      Angus is right , there’s unfinished business the people of Scotland need to address and this is the next Ballot Box available….. it should be used.

    34. Luigi says:

      What I cannot, for the life of me understand, is what exactly is there to lose by holding a plebiscite election in May?

      Even if a plebiscite is narrowly lost, what are the Britnats going to say: “your Holyrood election was once in a generation blah blah blah….!”

      Aye Right

      And if a plebiscite is actually won (quite possible), then all hell breaks loose. That would really set the pace ablaze. At the very least it would lead to a bona fide referendum, just to make things clear. The momentum would be irresistible.

      What’s to lose?

    35. McDuff says:

      The thing is Angus it’s not Boris Johnson who is the problem at the minute, it’s Sturgeon and the SNP.
      She is not remotely interested in independence and has no intention of pursuing it.
      Add to this the sinister corruption of the entire Scottish establishment and BoJo is the least of our problems at the moment.

    36. Soli says:

      The SNP is riven with incompetence and corruption, how can anyone honestly want it to continue in government, independence or not? Isn’t it important to re-establish Scotland as a high functioning country first, especially in view of the EU’s seemingly high current levels of incompetence?

      The EU won’t touch Scotland with a barge pole atm, for Captain Yossarian’s reasons.

      Plan C?

    37. Jimmy Hutton says:

      Some interesting new horseshit-peddlers in the comments section, but I digress…….it’s too late to make Nay a plebiscite in my opinion; we’d be likely to scare the electorate and end up just under the 50% of the vote, leaving the nation in limbo…..I say let’s win the election as big as we can, rally ALL the troops around a new leadership team and then collapse the new Parliament at a time most suited to our cause…….we resign as a government, and make it impossible for ANY other government to form. At that point an election MUST take place after 28 days, and we can nake that election ALL about independence……by collapsing a Parliament WE control the entire world will take a close interest; thus ensuring a free debate and a worldwide audience as we choose to become an independent nation….

    38. Lawrence says:

      Angus

      What has happened to your MSP colleagues at Hollywood?

      Have they had their tongues cut out and their balls cut off?

      Gutless, parasite bastards.

      Out of ALL the SNP reps, it seems to be the same half dozen who are speaking out.

      Even Joanna Cherry has disappeared off the face of the earth.

      How’s about a mass walk out at Westminster Angus?

      Just do something to show Westminster you are serious about this Indy thing.

      I don’t suppose we can expect anything too radical though, with that useless lump of shite Blackford running things down there on behalf of the poison dwarf Sturgeon.

      SNOWFLAKES NEED PAMPERED,,, otherwise known as, The SNP.

    39. Mountain shadow says:

      Thanks for the article Angus but no mention of the gigantic elephant in the room and it appears you Advocate voting SNP 1 and 2.

      “Wheesht for Indy” it is then.

    40. I remember reading about the life of the Scottish Admiral Thomas Cochrane who helped the countries of South America gain independence from Spain,

      as a young cadet he said he met Nelson and was given some advise,

      “never mind manouvers , always go at them ”

      Scotland it`s time for an end to `manouvers`,

      we need a Cochrane or a Nelson in charge or maybe an Angus or a Cherry.

    41. Ornith says:

      Al Dente – why come on here to propogate union rhetoric? This is not the place for it.

    42. Ros Curwood says:

      By using the 2021 election as a plebiscite the SNP could run a really inexpensive election campaign, which judging by the accounts recently presented to the NEC could be a real asset. No need to set out all the manifesto stuff we usually get, they have already decided who our candidates are going to be, whoever the branches want we will get the female,trans or disabled candidate already chosen for gender-balance and equality, so we dont need the expense of leafletting to get to know the candidate. We already know the policies, they are ongoing and they aren’t going to change any of them are they? So just making the election a plebiscite could kill many birds with one stone and hide an accounting shortfall that might later prove embarrassing, if that is a state of mind possible for the current administration. Wouldn’t have to make any promises that might be challenged later. And if by amazing blinding common sense the new alternative indy parties could ally for the election we could vote for what passes for the SNP to win the majority constituency vote and a clear and unconfusing opportunity to get an indy lead in the list vote, thus getting an undeniable majority for independence plus an indy opposition in the new parliament to curb the potty excesses of the pro-whatever-is-fashionable-now group. As Theresa May would say, ‘Simples’.

      (sorry if inappropriate but am really fed-up)

    43. How long before one of Salmond’s MP supporters reads out everything he wants to say in the House of Commons, where there is Parliamentary privilege and so zero risk of prosecution?

    44. James Carroll says:

      Current SNP management clearly think 5 more years is more important than grasping the opportunity at hand.

      We’ve never been in a stronger position numerically to take independence. We must never rely on London finding a shred of decency or respect for democracy. We have an opportunity in May so I hope people like Brendan shout it from the rooftops and get people on board with a plebiscite.

      Perhaps we can start a petition to support it?

    45. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Iain @ 9.20am

      You appear to misunderstand how EVEL works. EVEL only operates at the committee stage, if the Speaker decides the bill before the House applies to England only.

      At that stage, only English MPs can vote. However, for the bill to become law, it has to be voted on by the whole house, including the Scottish MPs.

      I am no expert, but, it could be argued, that the EVEL stage of the bill is the case of the English MPs acting as “The English Grand Committee.”

      There is nothing to stop, if the bill was suitable, perhaps having an impact on Barnett Consequentials, the Scottish MPs agreeing to sit as “The Scottish Grand Committee” to discuss it.

      Indeed, there might well be a case for the Scottish MPs, while the English are debating a bill deemed to have EVEL applications, meeting as the Scottish Grand Committee to discuss the ramifications of this.

      Of course, the in-built English majority would probably still overturn anything the SGC decided, but, that plays into the SNP’s hands, as yet another example of how undmocratic Westminster is.

    46. katherine hamilton says:

      OK, so when’s the manifesto published? Bold move by Angus. (Who’s Brendan?). If this bare bones offer, with a date, is not in it then nothing has changed, has it?
      Why not a plebiscitary vote, with a confirmation referendum if necessary further down the line.
      I take it if there is no commitment to either, Angus agrees we should get rid of the SNP for a term and re-group.

    47. Liz g says:

      Mountain Shadow @ 9.33
      That’s not what he said at all.
      He clearly said the Yes movement was bigger than the SNP and they should be able to express themselves at the next available ballot.

    48. Big Jock says:

      Angus -You are of course correct.

      You will be aware that many on here have no time for Sturgeon and all the baggage she carries. There are many who will not bother voting SNP , for several reasons, political and personal.

      However if we are actually voting for independence in May, then all our personal feelings can be set aside. If we go into May on another Jam tomorrow promise, then I see no incentive to vote SNP.

      I am scunnered with Nicola.

    49. Bob Mack says:

      @Liz G,

      It’s not a law for referendums at all. It’s legislation outlining the process of a referendum only. Is who does what and when. Nowhere in the document does it mention that the Scottish government have the power to even call a refefendum.

      It’s nonsense. It’s like telling you how to buy a train ticket .

    50. Is there any chance one of the Woke squad could be turned and persuaded to break a fingernail and go flouncing off in the huff, declaring that they’ll only be back if the election is made a plebiscite? Maybe Sturgeon would listen then.

      So far I’ve only heard Solidarity declare for a plebiscite so that’s who I’ll be voting for. The SNP in its current form can GTF.

    51. Andy Ellis says:

      Good to see this from Angus – particularly in this place – but I fear the plan for plebiscitary elections has run out of runway this close to #HR2021 elections. If a cohesive group within the SNP had been pushing for this, and gained some traction, we might have been able to carry this off when Sturgeon is (hopefully?) deposed.

      As things stand however, the SNP is still controlled by an unholy combination of gradualists, woke Wahhabis and neo-liberal Growth Commission devo-maxers.

      These are the people who booed the very idea of discussing Plan B at the last party conference remember! Even if Sturgeon and her immediate cabal are ejected soon, these numpties aren’t just going to disappear: they have too much riding on their actual and potential sinecures in the party. The SNPs very own modern day Militant TRA Tendency will still be there, even if some of them up sticks and slither off to join the Scottish Green Party.

      I’d love to believe that May 2021 will be a plebiscite, and that we would win, but I’d counsel against betting the farm on it.

      We waited too long, and failed to realise both the strength and unreason of the Sturgeonistas, and their apparent willingness to prioritise minority issues like TRA, GRA, self-ID, the Hate Crime Bill and their single minded focus on othering anyone who disagrees with them.

      Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. If we don’t, we’ll be having this same conversation on the eve of the 2026 Holyrood election and be no further forward – indeed we’ll have 5 more years of gradualism and rule by an SNP/Green coalition.

    52. Plato Chips says:

      I’m so very pleased to see Angus has written this FOR WoS!

    53. Duchess of Puke Street says:

      Great to see you connecting with independence supporters on here Angus.
      I attended a public meeting up in Caithness before the indyref in 2014, where yourself and Leslie Riddoch were main speakers.
      You both made perfect sense then as you do now.

      Thank you

    54. J Park says:

      Old Fogey says:
      24 February, 2021 at 9:17 am
      “What a wasted opportunity.

      You could have used this platform Angus to unequivocally condemn what your party has done, and continues to do, to its former leader. Instead, we have this regurgitation about a Plan B which you know full well will be completely ignored by your party hierarchy.

      Time to step up to the plate.”

      Hasn’t he just done so by writing this article for Wings.

    55. Craig Jones says:

      Liz grrrrr

      Does the Wee Gingerbread Man know you are out???

      No Sturgeonistas allowed.

    56. Scott says:

      @Socrates MacSporran

      EVEL stands for English votes for English Laws.

      How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?

    57. Liz g says:

      Christopher McLaughlin @ 9.35
      I don’t think that parliamentary privilege extends to breaking court orders Christopher.
      And nor should it.
      Firstly because the English Parliament has no business undermining Scottish courts and more importantly… that type of court order is in place for good reasons and must be held inviolate.
      It is not the fault of other women that these women abused the system, and the redress here is to extend the same privileges to the accused … not to destroy the trust of victims

    58. Terry says:

      Christ on a bike. This is devastating. From Iain Lawson.

      I can’t believe it’s got this bad. And loads of elected snp politicians must know. Why the hell are they not calling this out?

      The noble few such as Kenny Joanna Chris and Angus should be joined by a chorus now. It’s an affront to the members and the party what has been going on. https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/02/24/the-destroyers/

    59. PaulT says:

      A decently performing Scottish Government, leading Scotland forward with signs of prosperity, honesty and opportunity may have allowed ordinary Scots to be more sympathetic to a secession. There is no way that Scots who have Union leanings ( as much for the ‘devil you know’ ) will ever vote for separation with the SNP in power. Especially after the last few weeks. Separation needs a clear plan and strategy that folk can understand and support. The Scotland I was born into was always an honest and fair place. The nationalists who are running things just now are seen to deliver anything but any of that. Then there are the failures of their policies. I would offer the opinion that while the current junta dictate things you are herding seagulls. Unfortunately

    60. Cudneycareless says:

      Make it a plebiscite and the SNP gets a majority but the politicians who are tasked with implementing it are the same group that are running the country now.

      That should sober everyone up.

    61. Liz g says:

      Bob Mack @ 9.41
      Couldn’t argue what it is or isn’t Bob
      My point was it won’t apply to Election manifestos.
      We’ve always been a bit hung up on a Referendum but it never was the only option.

    62. thelastcavetiger says:

      The Murrels do not want independence, they want power and control All thoughts of independence have to shelved until they are gone.

      It’s that simple.

    63. Captain Yossarian says:

      So yesterday, Salmond must provide the evidence! But today, Salmond must NOT provide the evidence. This doesn’t look good for Holyrood and the Crown Office; it looks crooked. – ANGUS MACNEIL 23/2/21

    64. 100%Yes says:

      I would vote for the SNP but I wouldn’t trust the current leader of the SNP to honor it never mind delivery it without a get out clause that none of us knows about and that would be in the back of my mind. Angus, I just haven’t trusted your party since 2014 its because of it track record on delivering promise is 0% with regards to the EU and Independence.

    65. Mist001 says:

      This article is a complete sham. It’s very obviously an attempt to distract peoples attention from the carry on with Salmond at Holyrood and is a piss poor attempt to ‘rally the troops’ around the independence idea.

      It comes straight out of Mrs. Murrells handbook.

      Why isn’t Angus MacNeil commenting on the corruption within the SNP? Him, like all the rest, are completely silent on that.

      Shameful cowards.

      I’m surprised he hasn’t told us all that there WILL be a referendum this year.

    66. Liz g says:

      Cudnycareless @ 9.54
      While true it makes no difference to the fact we are going to the ballot box and should be offered a choice on the Union.
      A choice it is actually possible to make … who the politicians actually are , is ,while unfortunate not something we can deal with to any great effect right now.
      We should act where we can not just where we want to

    67. ScottieDog says:

      Thanks Angus.
      It is by far the most sensible option, despite what cosy feet Pete claims.
      Sadly, many of your colleagues want a seamless divorce, where their jobs, pensions etc are uninterrupted by any secession. Of course there are probably a considerable number who want no secession at all.

      It all becomes so much clearer why, after a year of ‘deliberation’, the ‘growth’ commission came up with the sterling plan – a plan that is basically unworkable wrt to EU membership but also, even if the U.K. granted a section 30, at best, would get us a currency union with London, complete with ruinous banking regs. Cosy feet for the few.

      The stop brexit campaign was another warning sign, journalists like Stuart warned about at the time, but the final proof for me was sturgeon’s moratorium on indyref until the ‘economic effects’ of covid had passed – another example of a condition which can’t be met, just like Andrew Wilson’s ‘6 tests’.

      From a personal point of view, for as long as we are in the U.K. I will never get over the economic effects of covid with my employer moving my job from Edinburgh to London. Of course I’m the lucky one since many don’t have any job to go to and how many more have to die in the event of another covid outbreak, or similar, handled by the psychopaths in London? But that’s ok because the careerists will still have their pensions.

      I do wonder if London installed ‘their’ people in certain key civil service roles. Why wouldn’t they? It’s hard to imagine all of what has passed is down to in-house incompetence?

      Those politicians in Catalonia put our own to shame. No one is asking for a revolution though – just democracy, yet so few of your colleagues have put their head above the parapet. More power to you and chris for standing up, however, the SNP for me are finished. They’ve clearly been compromised. Damaged goods. They should now be written off

    68. ScottieDog says:

      @Mist001
      Have you followed Angus on twitter? He’s not silent at all on the salmond case.

    69. Astonished says:

      I agree Angus – could you ask some of your gutless fellow MSPs and MPs to stand up and speak up for a plebiscite. If they don’t a significant number are toast.

      Iain Lawson disnae miss (a must read) :

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/02/24/the-destroyers/

    70. Liz g says:

      Mist 100 @ 10.00
      Leaving aside the Rev is not that easily fooled and is unlikely to prostitute Wings in that way!
      What if it was?
      It still doesn’t mean the plan doesn’t have merit.

    71. Astonished says:

      P.S. I did note the link to Iain Lawson’s piece further up the thread – apologies to the person who first posted for the duplication.

    72. Mac says:

      I have a problem with the opinion polls showing this increased support for indy/YES.

      The problem I have is that IMHO the SNPG since 2014 have not stated the positive case for independence at all. They have not developed the arguments since 2014. It was all just left to rot on the vine. No progress on any of the main arguments deployed by Project Fear. Nothing at all.

      Instead the entire shift towards YES has been achieved by relying on negative events. Tory government, BREXIT being the main two.

      So for me these polls showing increased support for YES are not built on anything solid or reliable. They are essentially ‘protest votes’ I fear. And when project fear starts up again they will melt like snow off a dyke.

    73. Johnny Martin says:

      While some who have previously been shouting about ‘wildcat referendums’ etc might have dropped that rhetoric, this is probably only temporary so they can convince you that they really believe that ‘Boris wouldn’t be able to ignore an SNP majority, he’d need to grant a referendum’.

      On 7 May, they’ll be back to using their former ‘illegal’, ‘wildcat’ rhetoric.

    74. robertknight says:

      Can we get serious please?

      The only occasions since 2014 when the SNP has steered the conversation towards Indy are when the ballot boxes have been due to be wheeled out.

      Once the ballots have been counted, more pressing matters come along and we’re all of a sudden back to ‘now is not the time’.

      So predictable you could set your watch by it.

      Aside from that, why would you vote for a FM who is morally unfit to hold any post in public life, let alone the most senior post? I mean, why would you?

      I wouldn’t trust her and her cronies to run a bath, let alone the country!

    75. 100%Yes says:

      I’ve joined ISP and to be honest I really trust Colette Walker and her party and I’m not going to turn my back on them when I know that they are 100% behind the restoration of the Scottish nation.

    76. Stuart MacKay says:

      Angus, what a superb article, the foreword in particular. Clear, punchy, with some memorable phrases and a few stabs in the right directions. You should do this more often.

    77. Tartanpigsy says:

      2 quick points, Captain Yossarian IS a troll of sorts. Bit smarter than some of his predecessors, but the same.
      Re Angus’ point I 100% agree but have no clue how we do this. My local branch and CA is completely in the grip of the blind Saint Nicky types.
      I did just suggest on Twitter a course of action for after the election. I would support massively demonstrating at Holyrood the day it re convenes. I think this is very possible and desirable. Not as desirable as A Manifesto for Independence where we have the focus of an election but infinitely more achievable given the current circumstances

    78. Checks notes says:

      katherine hamilton says:
      24 February, 2021 at 9:39 am
      OK, so when’s the manifesto published? Bold move by Angus. (Who’s Brendan?).

      That’s his name, Angus Brendan MacNeil

    79. prj says:

      “If enough people vote ISP2 we could get a supermajority”
      That will not happen!!! The ISP will be lucky to get 5% of the list vote that could be enough to cause the loss of an independent majority. Ah but the modeling shows the ISP will win, Ah but the modeling can also show the ISP losing the independence majority. The time for the ISP is after the election because, if the SNP fails to deliver then they have lost and we need another party to take up the cause. Yesterday I left the SNP as I don’t agree with some of their recent policies and actions. But I will lend them my vote 1 &2 at this election. The ISP is the party for the future if the SNP fails to deliver that referendum.

    80. Mia says:

      “If enough people vote ISP2 we could get a supermajority in May. Which will enable the parliament to call a plebiscite election any time it wants”

      In other words, you are advocating the same as the SNP but using different wording: to vote to have a vote. Why? Does ISP feel that all those mandates given by the people of Scotland to have an independence referendum can be simply brushed under the carpet and forgotten? Isn’t that undemocratic? Isn’t that exactly what the SnP is offering and one of the reasons why people is refusing to vote for them anymore?

      ISP or AFI do not need to wait for parliament to call a plebiscite election. They can do that themselves. The only thing they have to do is to include the termination of the union in their manifesto and voila! we have a plebiscite in each and every election. What is not to like? What is there to lose?

      We have already given plenty of mandates for a referendum. Now is time to let us vote on independence. Why do ISP and AFI insist in following the lead of the SNP by denying us that vote?

      What exactly is stopping ISP and AFI including in their manifesto a mandate to terminate the union and initiate negotiations for independence?

      Are ISP and AFI real pro independence parties or they have emerged just to prop up the SNP and help them to retain a majority so they can continue using our pro indy votes to preserve the union?

      The strategy to ask the electorate for a mandate to have another vote is well passed its sell by date. Either you fight for independence or you don’t. What ISP and AFI are doing hoping for that supermajority is simply moving the burden of calling the plebiscite to another party, in this instance the SNP, which in its present form you know they will never do.

      So what is the point to vote for ISP or AFI if they are determined to rely on the SNP to deliver what in its present form has no interest in delivering?

      Please stop taking the electorate for fools. England does not need to ask 10 times for a mandate to see it delivered. They only needed to ask once. Why is it seen as acceptable to demand the people of Scotland to vote so many times for the same thing before even our own parties are prepared to consider listening?

      Why asking us to wait more years for a plebiscite when your party can deliver one in 2 months?

    81. Johnny Martin says:

      PRJ @10:13am:

      Stop telling people how to vote.

      Folk can make their own minds up.

      For some that will mean ‘I will lend my vote because I want to win and still believe they will deliver’.

      For others, that will mean ‘I will consider voting for someone else, but I still might not because I want to win rather than voting for what I really want necessarily’.

      And for still others that will mean ‘I will give someone my vote even though I am sceptical about their chances for success because I prefer what they are saying/trust them the most now’.

      And likely other motivations and permutations exist.

      All are valid ways although personally I will vote for what I want, and who I trust most to try and get me it, rather than trying to worry about the maths of how everyone else will vote.

    82. Francis Lynch says:

      If the SNP are not about independence what use are they? They have managed the shop since 2007: but now the shop front’s paint is peeling; the signage crooked and in danger of falling; the windows dirty; the shelves empty; the product hidden under the counter; the computer says no; and patrolled by an unhelpful shop floor of jobsworths guiding the customer from what they came in for towards the exit.

    83. Captain Yossarian says:

      @Tartanpigsty – They are still sending-out injunctions to English newspapers to stop any headlines critical of Sturgeon. This morning, it was to The Daily Express. I’ll leave it to you to decide whether I’m a troll, or not. The more important point is: Are we fit to become independent? We have free prescriptions…but mallicious prosecutions. I don’t think we’re anything like ready, but I’ll leave it for you to decide.

    84. Kate says:

      This says it all really, she has even removed the “Scots are Sovereign”

      On the 19 December 2019 the SNP-led Scottish government passed the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020, an Act which made it a legal requirement in Scots Law to obtain from the British government a Section 30 order in order to hold an advisory referendum (all referenda in the United Kingdom are advisory) on the question of independence. It is important to note here that this law was enacted by the Scottish and not the British government. In 2014 the purpose of the Section 30 order was to temporarily increase the constitutional authority of the Edinburgh parliament so as to act on the decision of the 18 September 2014 referendum – not permission to hold the referendum. In 2014 a Section 30 order was not legally required. Today it is.
      https://randompublicjournal.com/2021/02/24/explain-to-me/

    85. Hatuey says:

      This is a very clever article. Well done, Angus.

      Of course, it would look very bad indeed if punitive action was taken again an SNP MP for promoting independence on a website such as this. And it’s noteworthy that the article also encourages us to vote SNP in May.

      This should be fun.

    86. Glortard says:

      Aye let’s vote 1 and 2 so lots of useless people continue to gorge from the public purse in excess of what they could earn in private enterprise. Lets vote for idiots to legislate more idiotic laws and for the Murrells to continue as overlords.

      Independence can only be gained by showing the Scottish People that its a better route. That starts by using the existing powers to make life better for the majority with people being most concerned by the NHS and education. Both of which we are failing pretty miserably at. Sturgeon has wasted nearly 7 years moaning whilst the country goes backward.

    87. Maid Marion says:

      @Bob Mack ( https://wingsoverscotland.com/engaging-with-the-plan/#comment-2618776 )

      I’ve also read Jason’s blog and, yes, it does say what you said it does:

      “an Act which made it a legal requirement in Scots Law to obtain from the British government a Section 30 order in order to hold an advisory referendum”

      But I’ve also read the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 ( https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2020/2/pdfs/asp_20200002_en.pdf ) and nowhere does it say that a Section 30 is required (Indeed, that legislation is basically “How to organise referendums for dummies”)

      Can you show me where it says a Section 30 is needed?

    88. Kenny says:

      Too late, Angus Brendan. I’d suggest you know fine-well the SNP have zero chance of/absolutely no intention of declaring May a plebiscite. A humungous ask, not only of the regular readers of this site, but of Scots in general.

      When something’s as busted and bogus and under corrupt leadership as the current SNP, and when the wheels are falling off at an alarming rate, and when I hear ‘plebiscite’ only from the occasional maverick and not a peep from those charged with independence, then the primary aim of the Party is the least important item on the agenda: both they and we know this.
      Independence? No, not for the SNP – it’s all about survival and salaries now.

      If I had an honest, genuine MSP to vote for I’d be swithering even under those circumstances, but you’re asking me to vote for George Adam – George Adam, ffs – and I’ve no intention of giving my vote to his like. I’d be as well offering my vote to ‘Scott’ who’s just happened to appear among the comments here. My only regret is that, while we on this site are fully aware what’s taking place, it could be another 5 years for non-readers – the blissfully ignorant – to finally hear an alarm.

      Sturgeon has ruined this party, set back the gains of 2014 and pished all over all of Alex Salmond’s hard, dedicated work; get her arrested and we can move-on.

    89. Don says:

      @Captain Yossarian says:
      24 February, 2021 at 8:44 am

      “Holyrood couldn’t govern Scotland in a million years. There’s a good chance, if we work to the same standards of probity expected in other countries, that several in Holyrood and St Andrews House will be going to jail before the year is out.”

      All 100% true , this post by McNeill is just another pporly thought out diversion Squirrel.Are we sure McNeill can write his own name yet ? How on earth do people think Scotland could get back into the EU when its clear that we don’t even have a proper functioning Legal System which is a requirement under articles 23 and 24 of the EU Aquis for Membership ? https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis_en

    90. Career Politician says:

      Well said Angus, but I think you’ll find that the Sturgeon Mafia are not interested in taking pragmatic steps towards Scottish Independence. They seem quite happy playing politics, inflating a huge real-estate bubble in Edinburgh, and have one eye on a speaking slot at Davos.

      I hope you’ve got your bags packed and are ready to leave when the bullshit wagon gets stuck in the mud. Been raining an awful lot lately.

    91. Don says:

      @Kenny says:24 February, 2021 at 10:31 am

      “Too late, Angus Brendan. I’d suggest you know fine-well the SNP have zero chance of/absolutely no intention of declaring May a plebiscite. A humungous ask, not only of the regular readers of this site, but of Scots in general.”

      He must think the electorate are really really stupid, is his own constituency full of people like those in Royston Vasey ? Its not about having a real prebescite , its about conning voters about thinking it is , this is the level they are sinking too.

    92. J Galt says:

      Brave words Angus.

      If it’s a plebiscite election the SNP have my vote, if not I’ll be staying at home.

      Now it’s time to have the courage of your convictions, shout this loud, shout it in the face of Nicola Sturgeon.

      I note from your bio that you have a degree in Civil Engineering – so you have a foot in the real world unlike most of your SNP colleagues – you could pick up the pieces if the bastards expel you, take the risk for Scotland!

    93. Craig Jones says:

      Tartan Pig Sty

      Who made you a Wings gate keeper?

      Who gives a fuck whether somebody is a Troll or a 77th or a Yoon.

      Don’t be a fuckin prick.

      We can all make our own minds up.

      This is you trying to deflect attention away from you being a mad mental Sturgeonista if course.

      Fuck Off back to the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website.

      The worst bastards at the moment in Scottish Politics are SNP Sturgeon diehards, like yourself Pig Sty.

    94. Scott says:

      Kate says: @10.23

      Read the legislation and come back to us with the part that says a Section 30 is required by law. (It isn’t)

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2020/2/contents/enacted

    95. Craig P says:

      You wouldn’t end the union because of Erasmus and shellfish. People would though if they understood the massive lost opportunities the union has cost us over the last 100 years. And not just through the activities of a London elite – our own ruling classes and their feudal levels of land owning and entitlement have questions to answer.

    96. Willie says:

      Firstly, ‘ Moran Taing ‘ to Brendan for such a sensible letter.

      And then moving on to make sense of what he says I would comment as this.

      Of course the May election is our plebiscite election, or should be. That is what elections are for. To express the will of the people. To grant mandate to the elected members to give effect to the will of the people.

      But under the SNP this is not the case. They have had mandate, after mandate, after mandate and have done nothing save spend their time putting off any planning to realistically pursue independence, stifling all political debate, stuffing the NEC and other such decision making bodies, disengaging members, cancelling all campaigning, suspending all branch meetings until very recently, replacing the focus of independence with trans rights and hate crime legislation, and worst of all participating in what is now clear as being an absolute conspiracy to destroy political persons who would push for independence.

      And now, with the Lord Advocate threatening the prosecute elected members of the Scottish Parliament if they hear evidence from an ex First Minister into the malfeasance of Government, the police and the Crown Office, the elected members of the elected Parliament sit saying nothing.

      So what kind of party is the SNP with members like this. What is the good in giving them one more vote. They are rotten, absolutely rotten to the core – a few notable exceptions who have stood forth.

      No one who has been in the party for as long as man6 of us have, and no one in the wider community who supports independence wants to do the SNP down, or at least they didn’t until now. But the SNP is now the enemy of independence. It’s actions and deeds are against independence.

      This cannot remain. Either things change in the SNP or things will be changed for them. Giving one’s second vote to an iSP party is a given. But giving even ones first vote to the SNP is now questionable and unless SNP MSPs stand forward and make their positions clear, then the electorate must consider giving their vote to alternative Independence candidates. This must be our independence referendum, our plebiscite!

      Sturgeon could turn this whole thing round but as we she she won’t. She has, and is with her gang riding the party to extinction, her behaviours most foul. But you know what, Independence is bigger than a malign First Minister and her rotten party.

      So ‘ moran taing ‘ Angus Brendan MacNeil MP for setting out this piece.

    97. ScotsRenewables says:

      Don says:
      24 February, 2021 at 10:31 am

      Are we sure McNeill can write his own name yet ?

      Better than you it would seem, ya roaster!

    98. Sylvia says:

      O/T
      STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF ALEX SALMOND

      SALMOND’S LAWYERS TELL LORD ADVOCATE TO RETAIN ALL RECORDS OF “EXTRAORDINARY INTERVENTION” TO CENSURE HIS EVIDENCE

      A spokesperson for Mr Salmond said:https://archive.is/0rnU6

    99. Bob Mack says:

      Referendum Bill Scotland Act 2020 still under auspices of (Scotland Act 1998.)

      I know it’s difficult Scott but try reading more than the Beano.

    100. Kenny says:

      ..I should add, yes, it’s a brilliant and daring stroke of genius for you, Angus Brendan, to guest blog here.
      Thank you for your devotion. Respect.

    101. Cenchos says:

      Oops. Looks like Murrell’s Squirrel Unit forgot to tell the Celtic board than Alex Salmond would not be attending the Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club today after all.

    102. Weebarra’s dad says:

      The answer is simple. SNP need to roll the dice. Tell Boris there are 2 options;

      1. Agree that a majority of pro-independence seats in May = Indy Ref 2, or
      2. If you don’t agree with this, May’s election is a plebiscite vote for independence outright.

      In that context, Boris will most likely opt for option 1 as he’d at least hope to have a chance of winning. He could always say no to both, but it would be clear from the outset how we fight this election and the need to secure international acceptance of our declaration of independence.

    103. Jim Kennedy says:

      Angus, where is the indy money?

    104. Pixywine says:

      Angus Do you realise what it is that you idiots did in Westminster in March 2020?

    105. Kenny says:

      Don at 10:38 am.

      He must think the electorate are really really stupid, is his own constituency full of people like those in Royston Vasey ? Its not about having a real prebescite , its about conning voters about thinking it is , this is the level they are sinking too

      Cut Angus Brendan some slack; my rant didn’t take into account his subtlety and guile when offering this guest blog, went right over my head.

      Good work, Angus Brendan.

    106. katherine hamilton says:

      Ha Checksnotes!
      Didn’t notice that. Does he go by Brendan?

    107. Bob Mack says:

      @Scott,

      Stop posting stuff you clearly don’t understand.

      I’ll give you this chance to point out to me in that legislation EXACTLY under what legal route they propose to have a referendum. Name the section Over to you.

    108. Wee Chid says:

      Well, according to the dug independence is not my priority because I don’t want to give up my sex based rights – St Nicola and her cult however do appear to have independence as their priority so we have to wheesht and vote for them because…? Please, someone, explain it to me.

    109. Breeks says:

      The other issue that smoulders in the coal bunker is the R ape Crisis centre.

      If you accept this is just a crisis centre in the passing, and really a mouthpiece for the SNP Wokeratti which attempts to repeat the smears against Alex Salmond even after his acquittal, doesn’t it show remarkable, ahem, ‘prescience’ to conveniently have a R ape Crisis centre set up, well funded and thoroughly ‘wokified’ in advance of a criminal conspiracy to smear a man for sexual assault and attempted r ape?

      Just another coincidence eh? I mean, what reasonable observer would dare to question the ethics and motivations of a R ape Crisis centre?

      Or might it be interpreted as actual evidence of premeditation and being an integral component of the conspiracy?

    110. Craig Jones says:

      Rev Stu

      One nil to wee Nicola.

      She has just caught you out by throwing a big massive Squirrel your way.

      REMEMBER SALMOND!!!

    111. Mac says:

      Right now the most important thing is we unseat Nicola Surgeon, her cabal, and all hopes she has of hand picking her successor (i.e Angus Robertson and his odious wife).

      If you succeeded in convincing the SNP to make it a plebiscite election then how do you vote for YES and to unseat Sturgeon at the same time?

      If you vote for YES but not for NS, how can anyone differentiate that? A vote for YES and a vote for Nicola become indistinguishable. They become woven into each other to use a familiar analogy.

      So the last thing I want is the upcoming election to be a plebiscite election IF Sturgeon is still leader. That is a catastrophe for me.

      First things first… Sturgeon has to be removed, she is entirely unfit for office (and was a useless leader to boot).

      Planning anything with Sturgeon in charge is lunacy. Whatever you want to do, it will only result in you indirectly endorsing another Sturgeon term.

      I have been loathed to say this in case it gives the poisonous dwarf ideas but if NS made it a plebiscite election it might very possibly save her as many could not bring themselves to not vote YES despite knowing it indirectly gives NS another mandate as leader.

      Then we be solely reliant on an Inquiry to bring her down. Too risky for me. I’m a belt and braces type, especially when it comes to removing Sturgeon from office, if all else fails we will always have the ballot box, unless it is a plebiscite.

    112. Captain Yossarian says:

      Levy and McRae have written to the Lord Advocate as these tools at Holyrood never reply to anything. James Wolffe must reply.

      Jackie Baillie has demanded the Lord Advocate’s attendance at Holyrood later today to explain his actions in redacting Salmond’s statement yesterday morning.

      I hope the Lord Advocate tidies himself-up (he looks like an untidy old tramp) and gives a good account of himself. Most Scots are now pissed-off that our parliament is being pushed around and told waht to do by this guy. The UK parliament wouldn’t stand for it.

      This is what’s called the ‘end game’.

    113. Scott says:

      @Bob Mack

      Section 30 order isn’t mention in the legislation at all.

      It’s not me that has the comprehension issue here.

      Scottish Government can organise referendums on anything they want to.

    114. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Angus thank you for taking the time to speak to us Vile Wings People.

      I and my family have left the SNP and will no longer vote SNP.

      I worked hard for the party and gave plenty of cash over many years.

      Now no longer a member and in fact an opponent to the SNP for all the reasons that you are well aware of. The SNP is now simply a disgrace.

      The only way I will vote SNP is if the next election is a plebiscite for independence.

      I would end in saying I am appalled by the silence of MPs and MSPs of the SNP who clearly see the madness they cannot be forgiven.

    115. Maid Marion says:

      @Bob Mack at 8.48am

      I’ve also read Jason’s blog and, yes, it does say what you said it does:

      “an Act which made it a legal requirement in Scots Law to obtain from the British government a Section 30 order in order to hold an advisory referendum”

      But I’ve also read the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 and nowhere does it say that a Section 30 is required (Indeed, that legislation is basically “How to organise referendums for dummies”)

      Can you show me where it says a Section 30 is needed?

    116. Pixywine says:

      There is more at stake than Independence I hope you are all looking forward to your fascist vaccine ausweis. I won’t vote SNP because they participated in the removal of our rights and liberties. If you think fascism is good for the health then you are crazy.
      As a Sctsman who believes in Human Rights I couldn’t vote for any of the rotten little fascists in Holyrood and Westminster. It’s true. A Scotsmans vote is a wasted vote.

    117. Beaker says:

      Jimmy Hutton says:
      24 February, 2021 at 9:32 am
      “it’s too late to make Nay a plebiscite in my opinion; we’d be likely to scare the electorate and end up just under the 50% of the vote, leaving the nation in limbo…..…….we resign as a government, and make it impossible for ANY other government to form.”

      I agree with your first point. But unless Sturgeon goes a plebiscite will probably backfire, given what has happened this week.

      If she wins in May and gets over 50% of the vote, she is not going to resign. Why would she?

      The problem for the SNP lies with the current leadership. The only way for that to change is for an MSP or MP to challenge her directly, or the SNP get kicked into touch in May.

    118. Tom Kelly says:

      Written by me in June 2015 and even more relevant today.

      Why it would be foolish to hold another Scottish Independence Referendum.

      The Edinburgh Agreement and the subsequent independence referendum established that ultimate sovereignty rests in the hands of the Scottish People. It is now generally accepted that an affirmative vote of over 50% of voters is required to establish Scotland as an independent country.
      There are several disadvantages in seeking a second referendum:
      1. Under existing devolved powers, the Scottish Government requires permission from Westminster to hold an independence referendum. The UK Prime Minister has already ruled out an independence referendum before 2020.

      2. In the run up to the 2014 Referendum, the combined forces of the Westminster Establishment, Tory, Labour and Lib Dems, the Tory press and The City of London used every tactic at their disposal to promote fear in the Scottish Electorate and succeeded in persuading many, especially the elderly, that Scotland was too poor, too wee and too stupid to be a viable independent country.

      3. A second failure within 5 years to achieve the required majority would effectively remove Scottish Independence from the agenda for another 20 years at least.

      4. There would be justifiable complaints that the significant costs of organising another referendum could be better utilized in improving public services in Scotland.

      The Alternative

      There is of course a perfectly democratic alternative method of establishing the will of the electorate. If the SNP achieves an overall majority of the popular vote in a UK general election, where the principal pledge in the manifesto is that Scotland should become an Independent Country, the mandate to negotiate Scotland’s exit from the United Kingdom would be incontestable.

      There are several advantages in following this scenario:

      1. A general election does not require permission from the UK Tory government.

      2. The 2014 referendum returned a 45% vote in favour of Independence; a timely announcement that Independence would be result from a majority in the GE2020 manifesto would reinvigorate the 45%, thus furthering the prospect of a majority SNP government at the 2016 Holyrood election

      3. The failure to attain a 50% majority of the popular vote in a UK general election would be a setback for the independence movement but not a disaster for the SNP, since anything above 40% would give the SNP a majority of Scottish MP’s at Westminster.

      4. In a UK general election, the forces of unionism are divided, and must concentrate their attention on the more important, in their view, middle England vote, leaving the people of Scotland to make reach their decision with Less external intervention.

      5. Finally, if we fail in 2020, there will be another UK general election in 2025 or before.

    119. Livionian says:

      The article by Sturgeon aside, I get unhealthily bothered by people claiming to be ‘a firm believer’ in anything

    120. Alibi says:

      Question for Stuart Campbell: This morning I read an article linked from Twitter by “Jeggit” that stated that the requirement for a section 30 was put in law by the SP as recently as 2019. I was astonished. Do you know if this info is correct? I find it unbelievable that an SNP government would pass such a law. More to the point in practical terms, if it is the casr, why not just repeal that bit? Almost as if the SNP is erecting roadblocks.

    121. Mac says:

      Swizz Family Robertson will be joining the list of suspected plotters real soon is my guess.

      The fact AR is Nicola’s chosen one is the worst endorsement you can possibly get.

      Whoever it is that is next leader, it simply cannot be him.

      Be like Nicola 2.0. with the windbag settings turned up to ’11’. Fuuuuuck no.

    122. Cenchos says:

      Why on earth do we have a Crown Office in Scotland anyway, I thought the people were Sovereign?

    123. Captain Yossarian says:

      Alex Salmond’s lawyers call Crown Office intervention re redactions “unprecedented & troubling.” “Our client has a reasonable apprehension that the Crown must have been approached.. by third parties seeking to change (its) previously stated position.” – Sky News

    124. Jonathan Marshall says:

      Excellent article and totally agree Angus… Scotland needs more action on Independence and promoting the benefits of it and less distractions from other areas that can be decided after Independence.

    125. Maid Marion says:

      @Alibi 11.20am

      I’ve also read Jason’s blog and, yes, it does say

      “an Act which made it a legal requirement in Scots Law to obtain from the British government a Section 30 order in order to hold an advisory referendum”

      But I’ve also read the Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 and nowhere does it say that a Section 30 is required (Indeed, that legislation is basically “How to organise referendums for dummies”)

      Section 30 isn’t even mentioned, nor Westminster, nor “UK Parliament” or anything like that

    126. Bob Mack says:

      @Maud Marion,

      I’ll try to get this right. The Referendum Scotland Act 2020 does absolutely nothing to change the terms and conditions of the (Scotland Act 1998,) therefore that is the legislation which is accepted in holding another referendum.

      Only by introducing new legislation to state that Scotland is going against that accepted practice could the SNP claim their referendum Act of 2020 has any force. By committing that step it is accepting the terms laid down under the Scotland Act 1998. Hence section 30 approval by Westminster.

      Declaring plebiscite changes that .

    127. Donibristle says:

      Thanks Angus.

      If we could find our direction in 11 weeks it would be wonderful.
      Unfortunately our bus driver has no idea where she’s going.
      Have you any idea how we could up the schedule and change the driver ?

    128. Craig Jones says:

      The only reason SNP MPs don’t perform a mass walk out at Westminster is because they would lose the massive skins they make from their expense accounts.

      Their claims add up to many thousands of pounds every year.

      What fuckin idiot is going to fight for Independence when you could have all this lovely FREE money rolling into your Bank account?

    129. Maid Marion says:

      @Baub Mack

      Thanks – and it’s “Maid” not “Maud” lol

    130. Liz g says:

      Kate @ 10.23
      What she/they seem to have done is removed Holyrood as the demonstration of Scottish Sovereignty.
      But Sovereignty its self was, is and always will be ours Kate.

      There has always been debate around where Scottish sovereignty is expressed since Holyrood opened up and both arguments have merit.
      Some say Holyrood as the only directly elected body is therefore the directly expressed will of the Scottish People,and others say Westminster as the Institution with the overall control of the Union and who’s foundling document is the Treaty of Union is where Scottish Sovereignty is held.

      Personally, while I can live with the Holyrood notion if it moves us forward , I always held that our Sovereignty is with the Westminster MPs.
      Holyrood is an instrument of the Westminster Parliament and its in Westminster the terms and conditions of ending the Union will be negotiated.
      In short Holyrood can do all that it might to end the Union but if the Scottish Westminster MPs hold fast then the Union will continue.
      In the current circumstances that’s very much worth remembering.

      If the Scottish government has closed that loophole on Westminster’s behalf and put beyond doubt Holyroods inability to act on the instructions of the Scottish electorate….. then clearly its the Westminster MPs we must focus on after the Holyrood elections….
      Leave Holyrood to Holyrood business and have the Westminster MPs assert our will.

      It might look as though a doors been closed Kate, but it only “looks ” that way, all they’ve really done is help to narrow our focus.
      The Westminster MPs have years left in office and Westminster can’t shut them down like it can its Holyrood instrument….. so we work with what we’ve got….and the good thing is the Westminster MPs are still in place even if this upcoming election was an utter disaster for Indy.
      That’s the bit the all seem to forget while they are down there we always have a route out, if we choose to use it.

    131. Steve davison says:

      Testing the waters ,will we all forgive and forget the SNP if there’s a chance for progress on indie
      Vote for SNP we will sort out self out when we get indie back on track don’t worry about the hate law and trans stuff it’s not as if we lied to you before
      No mention of the disgraceful unlawful first minister
      What do you think this lot would do with real power and no opposition

    132. Scott says:

      Bob Mack says:
      24 February, 2021 at 11:25 am

      @Maud Marion,

      I’ll try to get this right

      —-

      Think that would be a first

    133. David Caledonia says:

      Well well well

      What a great time to be a postillion when your mind is made up, and all you have to do is sit back and watch the circus come to town with the same old acts.
      If you have lived long enough you have seen it all before, and you know it might look better, but you know its the same old peddlers peddling the same old dross

    134. Garavelli Princip says:

      Captain Yossarian says:
      24 February, 2021 at 8:44 am
      “Holyrood couldn’t govern Scotland in a million years. ”

      Getting a bit pissed off with your opportunistic trolling Yossarian.

      Despite the current catastrophe, most of us on here still believe – and indeed believe even more in an independent Scotland.

      It is clear you have an axe to grind – and you may well have been badly treated – but be quite clear:

      What is occurring now is the consequence of having a colonial administration in Scotland – with Feudal remnants (mis)functioning as prosecution authorities – and a party captured by monomaniacal perverts.

      We are all the more determined to have a truly independent Parliament in a truly independent country. Whether you choose to stay here is a matter for you.

      But your unionist opportunism is most unwelcome.

    135. Bob Mack says:

      @Maid Marion.

      Sorry Maud.

      Just to underline the point. Martin Keatings case.

      The Advocate general underlined the point that Martins case was hypothetical since there was currently no legislation from a legal position which allowed a referendum unless that was to be revealed by the Scottish govsrnment. Martin of course is fighting to say that the people have that right anyway. That is the current state.

      Referendum Act 2020 means nothing.

    136. John Martini says:

      The problem you have is the SNP. Many of us will never vote for them again. Until it is cleared out I’m out along with many others.

    137. Craig Jones says:

      Who do you know who would FIGHT and DIE for Scottish Independence?

      I watch the old Irish documentaries about their freedom fighters with envy.

      Would Nicola Sturgeon fight and die for Scottish Independence?

      I very much doubt it.

      Her priority is making sure Chicks with Dicks get access to women’s toilets.

      Scotland has lost her way, big time.

    138. ITB71B says:

      My god. This is the political equivalent of throwing water on a burning shed while the house burns down behind you!

    139. ITB71B says:

      “Craig Jones says:
      24 February, 2021 at 11:38 am
      Who do you know who would FIGHT and DIE for Scottish Independence?

      I watch the old Irish documentaries about their freedom fighters with envy.”

      Would you have Scots killing other Scots because they don’t share beliefs?!?

    140. Scott says:

      Craig Jones says:
      24 February, 2021 at 11:38 am

      Who do you know who would FIGHT and DIE for Scottish Independence?

      ___

      I see that they didn’t their your position.

      Quelle surprise.

    141. Captain Yossarian says:

      ‘Garavelli Princip – Holyrood cannot even hold the CPS to account. It has no interest in doing so.

    142. Craig Jones says:

      I see the Grunter from the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website is STILL hingin aboot.

      Fuck Off!!!

    143. Robert graham says:

      The headline Engaging with the Plan .

      Ok i am up for that , eh Question exactly what Plan ?

      I have yet to see a workable Plan of how this nation called Scotland will operate the day after Independence is gained .

      I have heard supposedly Independence supporters who really detest Wings who also support Mrs Murrell offer the excuse that the SNP can’t let their secret Plan fall into the hands of the Enemy ffs oh god all the Cliches under the Sun never interrupt your enemy and all that shite in order to appear knowledgeable and interesting .

      Listen up Chumps there isn’t a Plan, there never was a Plan , want to know why because the current management are shit scared of taking the next step you would have to call a Ambulance to revive most of them if by accident because it won’t be by design we are actually in a position that a vote is secured a date is set for a referendum on independence .

      All this tripe about keeping the ” Plan ” secret Christ total tosh , every move has been catered for and every counter move has been studied and the outcome has been observed , on balance the least painful outcome will be followed , Ha Ha keep the Plan secret HA HA I ok if it comforts you .

    144. Craig Jones says:

      ITB71B 11.42am

      “Would you have Scots killing other Scots because they don’t share beliefs?!?”

      The Irish were fighting English occupation.

      The Irish were fighting the English Army.

      The Irish had enough of being a Colony of England.

    145. Stuart MacKay says:

      Breeks

      As you say, the R ape Crisis Centre is either a) all part of the plan or b) opportunistically taking advantage of the situation.

      If you look through the news posted on the site, https://www.r apecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/, the timings of the interventions in the inquiry by Chief Executive, Sandy Brindley, suggest the former. Postings are relatively infrequent but they do involve Alex Salmond more than not. It could be a glass half empty/half full situation but they are strongly invested in keeping the Alphabet Gang anonymous.

      Any judicial inquiry or legal action would want to take a closer look at the role they play in this.

    146. Mia says:

      “Are we fit to become independent?”

      YES

      I find it most insulting and demeaning that you even dare to suggest a whole country like Scotland can only operate if England is constantly ransacking its resources, gerrymandering its structures of government, messing up its COPFS, watering down its laws, undermining the democratic will of the people of Scotland and controlling its land.

      I am actually disgusted that you could even suggest that.

      It is suggestions like yours that convince me even further that all this mess has been deliberately engineered by the British state to make us look as incapable to govern ourselves and in preparation for an aggressive take over of our Parliament and body of law.

      Why would Sturgeon want injunctions in England papers when the main audience in those papers is from outwith Scotland and has no vote in the next coming elections? Isn’t that an obvious move that is designed to play for England’s audiences?

      Why should the people of England be concerned at all or affected by Scotland’s government unless there is a concerted attempt by England’s government to effect an aggressive take over of Scotland’s government and parliament and that government is now trying to justify that unlawful move in the eyes of the English people?

    147. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Given that it’s events and not polls that drive politics, it’s maybe high-time to go independent on your own-account, Angus. There isn’t a chance of a plebiscitary poll in May, in my humble opinion. Voluntary disfranchisement on the part of many, seems like a much more likely outcome, once more: in my humble opinion.

    148. Liz says:

      Thanks Angus, for putting your head above the parapet.
      Free speech is vitally important for democracy.

    149. cynicalHighlander says:

      Statement On Behalf Of Alex Salmond.

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/statement-on-behalf-of-alex-salmond/

    150. Scott says:

      Craig Jones says:
      24 February, 2021 at 11:58 am

      ITB71B 11.42am

      “Would you have Scots killing other Scots because they don’t share beliefs?!?”

      The Irish were fighting English occupation.

      The Irish were fighting the English Army.

      The Irish had enough of being a Colony of England.

      —–

      Scotland isn’t under occupation.

      Take yer face for a shite.

    151. cynicalHighlander says:

      @ Liz says:
      24 February, 2021 at 12:09 pm

      Thanks Angus, for putting your head above the parapet.
      Free speech is vitally important for democracy.

      Which we wont have if the SNP retain power.

    152. Cuilean says:

      The Murrells won’t go for that because if it failed, they’d have to resign. True patriots who put their people first would not hesitate.

      But we all know the Murrells are in it for themselves, not the people.

    153. Mac says:

      Plot Leader
      Nicola Sturgeon – First Minister & Leader of SNP

      Plotters / Willing Participants
      Leslie Evans – Permanent Secretary to FM
      Liz Lloyd – Chief of Staff to FM
      Judith MacKinnon – Head of People Advice for SNPG
      Peter – Murrell – CEO of SNP and Husband to FM
      Sue Ruddick – COO of the SNP
      Ian McCann – Compliance Officer of SNP
      Nicola Richards – Head of People for SNPG
      Barbara Allison – Director of Communications for SNPG

      Suspected Plotters / Willing participants
      James Wollfe – Lord Advocate & Head of COPFS
      Shirley-Anne Somerville – SNP MP
      John Somers – Principal Private Secretary to FM

      NS as Plot Leader (because I have a brain and eyes in my head).

      The first six of the Plotters have all been identified by Salmond directly. Richards and Allison I added after seeing their roles in the analysis by Gordon Dangerfield.

      The last three are just strong suspects.

      Not interested in accusers just plotters here – anyone I am missing?

    154. McDuff says:

      I’m sorry Scott but Scotland is very much under occupation.

    155. Orlando Quarmby says:

      Mac
      “anyone I am missing?”

      Yes – wannabe Sturgeon heir apparent Angus Booby Prize Robertson & his dangerously ambitious Lady Macbeth.

    156. FrankM says:

      How many mandates do you need for Gods sake?
      You fooled us once, shame on you. If we allow you to fool us again, the shame would be on us.

      After years of promises and disillusionment and now a scandalous attempt to smear Mr Salmond, your credibility as a party is shot to pieces. This is Scotland’s new shame!

      Nothing will persuade me to vote SNP again. However, I will vote ISP on the list and hope that a new Independence Party will form. There is no opposition of note in Scotland and I believe only the ISP is the way forward, to hold the SNP to account.

      I hope you read this Mr MacNeil. I am telling you that the SNP are not worthy of my vote. I think you know that this is the feeling amongst many independence voters now and the above post is an attempt to persuade people with more promises which you will all surely break once again.

    157. Lorna Campbell says:

      Yes. Yes. Yes. Just do it.

    158. Ian Mac says:

      Yes, a good idea, but also completely off the table with the current despots and her minions in power. They have no intention of crusading for independence when they can retain absolute power in Holyrood, with the carrot of independence forever waved in the mythical future.
      There is also no way i would vote for independence without guarantees of how the transition would be managed, who would be involved and what kind of constitution we would negotiate and adopt. And maybe a commitment that at that point the SNP would cease to exist, its purpose fulfilled. We have to be sure that the current situation of despotism cannot survive into an independent Scotland, and we have a modern open democracy. Otherwise there is no point.

    159. Willie says:

      And to change the track a little, I wonder what focus our First Minister has today. Could it be –

      1) Her full time dedication to the coronavirus epidemic, or
      2) Her input into independence strategies and action, or
      3) Spending her time trying to do down Alex Salmond and suppress testimony to the public.

      Once you’ve thought about that, ask yourself why in God’s name would anyone vote for Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP in its current form.

    160. Mac says:

      I was going to put them on Orlando Quarmby and forgot somehow!

      Updated:
      Plot Leader
      Nicola Sturgeon – First Minister & Leader of SNP

      Plotters / Willing Participants
      Leslie Evans – Permanent Secretary to FM
      Liz Lloyd – Chief of Staff to FM
      Judith MacKinnon – Head of People Advice for SNPG
      Nicola Richards – Head of People for SNPG
      Barbara Allison – Director of Communications for SNPG
      Peter Murrell – CEO of SNP and Husband to FM
      Sue Ruddick – COO of the SNP
      Ian McCann – Compliance Officer of SNP

      Suspected Plotters / Willing participants
      James Wollfe – Lord Advocate & Head of COPFS
      Shirley-Anne Somerville – SNP MP
      John Somers – Principal Private Secretary to FM
      Angus Robertson & Jennifer Dempsie – Failed but wannabe again politicians, not sure what the pair of them are up to these days (when not plunging huge spikey daggers into people’s backs).

    161. Hatuey says:

      We have the little jolly FM today at the briefing, making jokes about her hair whilst trying to sound positive and upbeat.

      It’s springtime for Nicola and Scotland today…

      Anyone seen that film with De Niro called The King of Comedy? It’s about a crackpot that imagines he’s a famous talk-show host.

      Of course, it’s all fake.

    162. robertknight says:

      Mac @12:25

      You forgot Mr Harvie… Crown Agent

    163. Jason Hoffman says:

      It’ll take a huge amount of positive news from the SNP to convince me they are worth voting for.

      I do not want an independent Scotland governed by this current administration.

    164. ITB71B says:

      Craig Jones says:
      24 February, 2021 at 11:58 am
      ITB71B 11.42am

      “Would you have Scots killing other Scots because they don’t share beliefs?!?”

      The Irish were fighting English occupation.

      So…. I take it the answer to my question is yes, any Scots that didn’t sure the same view would be viewed as “collateral “ by you. Wow.

    165. Bob says:

      The day after Scotland delivers more than 50% of votes in May to Independence supporting parties whoever they are, everything changes.

    166. Mac says:

      Of course. Added Robert.

    167. Sarah says:

      @ Jason Hoffman: have you emailed the MSPs to tell them you won’t vote for them and why?

      Everyone who comments btl here MUST contact MSPs immediately. We have to kick them into action today to clear out the rot. All they have to do is tell Nicola that they are going to sit as Independents in Holyrood now and call a VONC unless she resigns as FM and leader.

      Simple. Especially for the 15 who are retiring shortly. If you want to start with them they are: Michael Russell, Alex Neil, Jeanne Freeman, Roseanna Cunningham, Aileen Campbell, Stewart Stevenson, Gail Ross, Angus Macdonald, Bruce Crawford, Gil Paterson, Sandra White, Linda Fabiani, Richard Lyle, Maureen Watt. Email is their name e.g. Michael [dot] Russell [dot] msp [at] parliament [dot] scot.

    168. Liz g says:

      Mia @ 12.01
      Well said Mia, no matter what troubles a country has being run from the country next door is never the answer.

    169. Allyreid says:

      if the corrupt snp try to imprison people they disagree with now , what will they do to their perceived enemies when independence arrives? asking for a friend

    170. Cenchos says:

      Sturgeon is attempting to entrap Salmond.

    171. tricia young says:

      Sarah @ 1.04pm

      I have emailed my local MSP’S and MP loads of times and only one answer from Mike Russell, who is not my local rep, basically sounding peeved that I had questioned him. He did admit that the party was rubbish at communicating and he wished it was different/better. I also emailed SNP HQ outlining why I resigned from membership and not a peep back. You can email all you want if they don’t or won’t react then that does nothing.

    172. Republicofscotland says:

      Well said Angus, May’s elections should be a plebiscite, but I doubt that will happen.

    173. barrie gadgie says:

      ‘It’s a general truth that the party isn’t as popular as independence, so there’s nothing to lose by hitching the party to its primary reason for existence and riding its coat-tails. It’s a win-win for the SNP.’, or, following your own logic, people who support independence might not vote for the snp, especially when this site continually traduces the snp. so it’s a lose/lose for both snp and independence.

    174. Kiwilassie says:

      This is an interesting piece. Are SNP under Sturgeon fundamentalists or gradualists?
      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2020/08/02/battle-for-the-snp-and-scotland/

      This link shows you the commitment the SNP has “NOT” had for preparing for Indy Ref2 since 2015
      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-201900005611/

    175. Alf Baird says:

      Angus is on the right track to secure independence in May but he’ll need a new SNP hierarchy for sure to deliver what Solidarity has proposed:

      “If the SNP hierarchy is serious about independence, they can simply recognise that, include it in their Election Manifesto, and if a majority vote for Independence supporting Parties, then independence can be declared and an application to the UN can be made for international recognition. It’s that simple”! “Anything less is not good enough”!

      https://solidarity.scot/snp-hierarchys-11-point-plan-is-doomed-to-fail/

      And if the SNP fail to campaign for a plebiscite election on independence then other parties will need to fill the void.

    176. Scott says:

      Kenny says: @10:31

      “I’d be as well offering my vote to ‘Scott’ who’s just happened to appear among the comments here.”

      —-
      I don’t want your vote

    177. Tony O'Neill says:

      Angus,why don’t you ask Boris directly if he will respect the result of a plebiscite election in May,If we have one and if it’s for independence???.Ps don’t let him wriggle out of giving a direct answer,it’s time for you to take the lead.

    178. DejectedScot says:

      Do I understand correctly what a plebicite election in May would mean? Would it mean the SNP manifesto being stripped down to a single issue, stating that votes for the SNP would be counted as votes for an independent Scotland, and nothing else?

      Because if it’s packaged along with any other current SNP policy – such as GRA reform and related transcult madness, the hate crime bill or other positions of assault on free speech, the continued marginalisation of men in society, the pursuit of vague notions of equality enforced through “positive” discrimination, or the continuation or deepening of the police state in which we now find ourselves – then I cannot in good conscience put my name to that.

      Even if they did strip it out, I would still have to *trust* that they would follow that pledge not to interpret votes for the SNP as anything other than a vote for independence – and the SNP does not, in recent times, have a good record of keeping manifesto promises, nor a good record of being led by trustworthy people in general.

      Needless to say, if the Murrells are still at the helm at the point of publication of such a manifesto, no such trust can be given.

      It’s no longer just about running a plebicite election. The SNP must also backtrack on all of their deeply unpopular policies, with a new leader giving a heartfelt apology to the nation for the distress their pursuit has caused, go through a period of political renewal with mass resignations of all involved with these policies and, of course, the stitch up against AS.

      In 2014 the foundations that would underpin a new independent Scotland were firm, and mostly steeped in all of those ideals that have made Scotland great throughout the centuries. Now that those ideals are under attack, it is no longer enough simply to offer a vote on independence – we must be convinced that the foundations for our new country have not been eroded from beneath it, and that a new Scotland will not simply become the transcult police state that the SNP is currently pursuing.

    179. lumilumi says:

      NS: I want a free and fearless press! Not you, WoS.

    180. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Do I understand correctly what a plebicite election in May would mean? Would it mean the SNP manifesto being stripped down to a single issue, stating that votes for the SNP would be counted as votes for an independent Scotland, and nothing else?”

      Yes. That’s literally what it means.

    181. barrie gadgie says:

      @Alf Baird
      but with the voting system we’re lumbered with, difficult to get a majority of seats, a majority of votes, and a majority of the electorate. and any deficit in any one of those will be used by the uk to deligitimise the result.
      and for the answer to the ‘so what if they do?’ question, check out the independence struggles of the uk’s former colonies.

    182. DejectedScot says:

      Sarah @ 1.04pm

      It would pain me to actually count up the number of hours of my life I’ve spent typing e-mails/penning letters to politicians and adding my name to petitions of noble causes. It is surely in the hundreds of hours.

      Yet, in not a single one of those instances, has it led to political movement in the direction I would have liked. That ranges from e-mailing about getting potholes filled to e-mails about the danger of the government’s lack of response to existential threats such as climate change.

      A politician’s e-mail inbox and surgery offerings are little more than a brick wall for constituents to bang their head against. Even worse, these days they can act as a form of police entrapment. For example, there is no way in hell I am ever writing to any politician in the SNP to express my dissatisfaction with their politics around gender ideology. You are writing to people who believe it is bigoted to even attempt debate on the issue, and who believe that such bigots should be dealt with by means of swift and disproportionate police action.

      If writing to politicians had any record of success, then it may be worth the risk, but I for one am not going to be spending any time in a police cell for the insanely stupid crime of thinking that we live in an open democracy where constituents can express their true feelings to their representatives and have it make any sort of impact. That’s too close to a Darwin award for my liking.

    183. Sarah says:

      @ tricia young: but if we don’t email MSPs to tell them what we think they can say “no-one got in touch to say they think NS is corrupt” or whatever!!

      It is the only thing we can do immediately, isn’t it?

    184. barrie gadgie says:

      @AlfBaird says…
      under the voting system we are burdened with, difficult to get a majority of seats, a majority of votes, let alone a majority of the electorate.
      and the uk gov will use a deficit in any one of those to deligitimise the result.
      and the answer to the ‘so what if they do?’ question: check out the independence struggles of other uk colonies.
      therefore, we need to follow due process/all avenues/etc in order to neutralise any objections. so election, followed by referendum. followed, if necessary, by udi. (assuming positive results).

    185. DejectedScot says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell: Yes. That’s literally what it means.

      Thanks for the confirmation. So essentially it amounts to a promise from a corrupt SNP not to misuse our votes for their own nefarious purposes.

      Forgive me, but I am unconvinced of the reliability of such a promise.

    186. Kiwilassie says:

      This is Dynamite. MSP & even English MP are now commenting on how undemocratic the redactions of Alex’s statement is.
      Looks like Sturgeon is for the chop.
      https://archive.vn/Fowe5

    187. Jimac says:

      Mia says:
      24 February, 2021 at 10:18 am

      “If enough people vote ISP2 we could get a supermajority in May. Which will enable the parliament to call a plebiscite election any time it wants”

      In other words, you are advocating the same as the SNP but using different wording: to vote to have a vote. Why? Does ISP feel that all those mandates given by the people of Scotland to have an independence referendum can be simply brushed under the carpet and forgotten? Isn’t that undemocratic? Isn’t that exactly what the SnP is offering and one of the reasons why people is refusing to vote for them anymore?

      ISP or AFI do not need to wait for parliament to call a plebiscite election. They can do that themselves. The only thing they have to do is to include the termination of the union in their manifesto and voila! we have a plebiscite in each and every election. What is not to like? What is there to lose?

      We have already given plenty of mandates for a referendum. Now is time to let us vote on independence. Why do ISP and AFI insist in following the lead of the SNP by denying us that vote?

      What exactly is stopping ISP and AFI including in their manifesto a mandate to terminate the union and initiate negotiations for independence?

      Are ISP and AFI real pro independence parties or they have emerged just to prop up the SNP and help them to retain a majority so they can continue using our pro indy votes to preserve the union?

      The strategy to ask the electorate for a mandate to have another vote is well passed its sell by date. Either you fight for independence or you don’t. What ISP and AFI are doing hoping for that supermajority is simply moving the burden of calling the plebiscite to another party, in this instance the SNP, which in its present form you know they will never do.

      So what is the point to vote for ISP or AFI if they are determined to rely on the SNP to deliver what in its present form has no interest in delivering?

      Please stop taking the electorate for fools. England does not need to ask 10 times for a mandate to see it delivered. They only needed to ask once. Why is it seen as acceptable to demand the people of Scotland to vote so many times for the same thing before even our own parties are prepared to consider listening?

      Why asking us to wait more years for a plebiscite when your party can deliver one in 2 months? Mia, the ISP supports a plebiscite for May. They even have a petition running and have called on other parties to support it. They also support the idea of a supermajority, because should we miss our chance this May, a supermajority gives the option of calling a snap election (which requires a 2/3 parliamentary majority). It’s about having a full tool kit for indy and a number of options.

    188. Lynne says:

      Kiwilassie says:
      24 February, 2021 at 3:24 pm
      This is Dynamite. MSP & even English MP are now commenting on how undemocratic the redactions of Alex’s statement is.
      Looks like Sturgeon is for the chop.
      https://archive.vn/Fowe5

      Interesting typo at the start of para 3.

    189. Jimac says:

      Right, made an a*** of doing italics on previous comment; sorry about that. I was replying to Mia’s comment about ISP. ISP support a plebiscite in May; we even have a petition running and have called on the SNP and others to respond. Should that fail to happen, a supermajority gives us the option of calling a snap election (which requires a two thirds majority) on independence, so that we don’t have to wait until 2026. It’s about having a full tool kit for indy and a number of options available. There’s more than one way to skin a cat and there is more than one way to indy, but we need to be smart with our vote and we need to be ready to vary the route to get to where we need to go.

    190. Alf Baird says:

      barrie gadgie @ 3:20 pm

      “under the voting system we are burdened with, difficult ….”

      If a national majority of voters vote for independence parties, then this results in a national majority vote in favour of independence.

      There is no need to make things unnecessarily difficult, that is the role of anti-independence actors, whose yowlings we must ignore at some point in time.

    191. Mia says:

      “a supermajority gives us the option of calling a snap election”

      Thank you very much for taking the time to read my comment and for your reply. It is much appreciated it.

      I am writing from the perspective of a yes voter who does not take gladly, after being taken for a fool by Sturgeon and her SnP, being told that after already handing multiple mandates for indyref to a winning party, we still have to continue giving mandates to, may be maybe not, having the chance of finally voting for independence sometime this century. I am totally aware that the worth of my comment only lies in the fact that I may not be the only one who is fed up of waiting and who is totally determined to only bothering to vote if it is for independence.

      Because ISP only runs on the list, in order to achieve that supermajority it needs to rely on the SNP to support calling that snap election. You know as well as I do that there is not a chance in hell an SNP led by the booby price or Sturgeon will ever allow for that to happen.

      Including in the ISP manifesto a mandate for independence however bypasses the booby price and Sturgeon. You will not get a majority of seats on 2021, that is granted, but you will have moved the goalposts dramatically for the next election, which is 2024. A plebiscite election was SNP policy up to around 1999. ISP including it in their manifesto will help to normalise that again and blow to pieces the concept of the “gold standard”.

      At this moment in time, the SNP only looks pro independence because they sit side by side with parties that are staunchly unionist. As a matter of fact, with the total inaction by Sturgeon, today, the SNP relies 100% on the unionist parties continuously parroting that they oppose indyref and that Sturgeon only thinks in indyref (when we all know it is the last of her concerns), to maintain credibility as pro independence party.

      Even if just one pro-indy party includes that mandate to terminate the union in the manifesto, runs with it in 2021, and gets a couple of seats, it will be pushing boundaries and shattering that status quo.

      Such a party will re-stablish the balance and help the electorate see that the SNP are not the pro indy party they claim to be. They are not at one side of the spectrum, but very much in the middle when it comes to independence.

      Such party will force the narrative away from the unionist side and will force the SNP to either come clean about its lack of pro independence interest risking losing pro indy votes in the incoming GE2024 or move their goalpoasts toward independence to continue as “the” party of independence. Either option is a winner.

      Bear in mind that if the SNP does not deliver that indyref before the next GE, which they will not, they will stand to lose support of yes supporters who by then will have got totally fed up of waiting for a referendum that will never arrive. Those votes that can easily find their way into ISP if ISP is offering a mandate to terminate the union.

      What do you need a petition for and why did ISP thought it was a good idea?

      If you have conviction for independence and you want to include that mandate in the manifesto you do so. You do not need to hold a petition to decide if you are going to include it or not. Frankly, setting up such petition is inviting the unionists to trashing it down and make voters wonder if you really have the conviction to lead us to independence.

      The question ISP needs to ask itself is: do we believe in independence enough to be prepared to seek it every time we campaign or we just want to ask our voters to forever keep faith on the SNP just on the odd chance that one day of this century or the next they might just help Scotland get its independence?

      People does not want to vote to give another mandate to hold another vote. We already did that. Repeatedly. People want now to vote for independence. We have waited long enough. Is ISP prepared to offer that vote or its only aim is to help the SNP to continue denying us that vote?

    192. Stoker says:

      “One fortunate thing recently is those who used to bandy about terms like “illegal referendum”, “wildcat referendum” and “gold standard” have dropped this tomfoolery, and for that at least we must thank Mike Russell and his 11-Point Plan.”

      They only stopped spouting it when the London School of Economics announced that those spouting such mantras are “legally and constitutionally illiterate”. It has nothing to do with Russell’s retirement note to Santa.
      __________

      “the Scottish Government does now indeed recognise this reality, after quite a period of unsubstantiated and baseless hope that the UK Government would grant a Section 30 order.”

      Serious question: Where’s the evidence for that? I haven’t seen Sturgeon announce anything about the futile begging for an S30 being scrapped.
      __________

      “Democrats, firstly and fundamentally, must all agree that the ballot box, whether at elections or referendums, must be respected.”

      Unless the pre-vote agreements are broken such was ‘The Edinburgh Agreement’ with the introduction of ‘The Vow’ during Purdah. And not a single “democrat” raised any objections – not Salmond, not Sturgeon and not you either Angus. Although, granted, as you’re not “leadership” it wasn’t really up to you to raise these matters. But there was nothing stopping you all getting together and protesting. And not wanting to be seen as bad losers is a flimsy excuse the Britnats knew they could milk.
      __________

      And btw Angus, thank you for not being dictated to and put off from contributing to WOS. Your stance has been well & truly noted, as well as appreciated. I’m selling Kevlar stab-proof vests if your interested? With special hardened back panels. LOL!

      And massive thanks for that first big quote about the media from Sturgeon. Oh where to start with that little lot eh? Another few lies to add to her ever expanding collection.

    193. lumilumi says:

      Also, thank you, Angus, for putting your head above the parapet. This will be remembered.

    194. Iain More says:

      And all the Kings horses and all the Kings men couldn’t put humpty together again.

      You might be the last remaining munchkin after May elections Angus!!!

    195. Platinum says:

      Are there any laws against posting non-offical bits of paper in a ballot box, such as printing out your own referendum form ‘Should Scotland be an independent country? – Yes’? Even though it wouldn’t mean anything legally, if enough people did it, it would certainly send a message…

    196. Kiwilassie says:

      I had to laugh. I posted on Stu’s facebook page of Wings.
      Guess who’s name came up when I typed in Nicola? Yes Nicola Sturgeon. LMFAO
      So should she expel herself from the SNP? Laughing here.

      Nice to see Alex frequents the page. That man is a legend in my eyes.

    197. Tracey Moore says:

      Well done Angus for exercising your right to free speech while we still have it! I resigned my membership of the SNP due to the current dark cloud of toxicity that hangs ever menacing over it. Nurturing policies of division, underhandedly hijacking the democratic process of list candidates to parachute in candidates of cronyism, censorship of what you can read, denying NEC members valid input, not to mention the Alex Salmond boorach, is in my eyes, nothing short of enacting a page out of the Tory hand book. The broad church that was once the SNP, now resembles a prayer mat for the select few. The only way I will rejoin the party, is if independence is on the table front and centre. The current leadership need to get a grip or get in the sea.

    198. Some in the SNP think it’s acceptable for an adult entertainer called Flowjob to tour a primary school with a GRA zealot MP. Some seem incapable of reading and understanding prose. Take a bow Fiona Robertson – either demonstra ly stupid or deliberately obtuse. Nicola Sturgeon’s mamtra about the investigation into Alex Salmond constantly uses Me Too as the driving force for justification. Me Too was there to out sexual predators and misogynists. Are we really expected to believe that Alex Salmond is like Harvey Weinstein, Donald J Trump, Bill O Reilly or even Boris Johnson ?? Knee-squeezing or hair-fiddling don’t really belong in the same frame as multiple rapes or countless sexual assaults.

      Other than Alex Salmond has any other member of any political party, cabinet member or backnencher, been tried retrospectively as part of the Me Too backlash. I think the answer is No. Now I know that in the same window a Tory MP was up in court for the rape of a young man. We have recently seen another investigated for the rape of another young woman. We’ve seen another provide a false alibi in yet another rape case.

      Fiona Robertson is symptomatic ofeverything that is wrong with the SNP – too fond of food to actually critique the actions of her leader and the direction of her party.

      I’ll be voting SNP/ISP and after independence I will not go near the party again. Tweeting in unison just like the horrible Tories. Currently top-heavy with talentless GRA bigots and weak men who seem far too close to their apparently asexual leader – it’s a classic case of unrequited love.

      Angus you have to decide too – a party that sacks Joanna Cherry and Neale Hanvey while removing all of Alex’s contribution to the Indy movement is a party that has lost its way.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top