Does anyone speak Dugdale?
Scottish Labour’s regional branch manager (North Britain) clearly thought this was so important she needed to say it twice:
But that’s not helping us make any sense of it. All sarcasm and snark aside, we can’t figure out what on Earth it’s supposed to mean.
Who, if not the First Minister and the Prime Minister, gets to decide? The electorate? They did that 10 months ago, when they gave a party with a second referendum in its manifesto a landslide victory that put them in goverment until 2021. The Scottish Parliament, the official embodiment of the will of the Scottish people? It’s (almost certainly) going to vote for one next week.
All we know for sure is that Kezia Dugdale is going to order her MSPs to vote with the Tories – in effect, with the Prime Minister – but that Labour say they WON’T block a Section 30 order at Westminster (if a vote happens, which the Tories say it won’t).
That doesn’t get us anywhere in establishing who the decision should rest with. We’d ask Kezia Dugdale directly, but she blocks us on Twitter. Can anyone translate?
If individual Scottish Labour and Liberal Democrat MSPs do follow Theresa May’s diktat of denying a democratic referendum then they are well and truly redundant to Scottish politics.
Why are they so keen to grasp Tory-designed Brexit when their members and supporters overwhelmingly reject the notion of leaving the EU / Single Market?
One can waste countless hours trying to decipher the logic? of poor Kezia . Best to just ignore her – everybody else does .
‘Can anyone translate?’
Yes. ‘I will utter contradictory absurdities from one day to another, indeed sometimes within the space of a day, for you see, kind sir, I have no brain.’
Probably thinking back to the good old days of Jack McConnell when it used to be Labour’s job to stitch things up.
Now they canae, and it hurts.
She has the weekend to think again about cosying up to the Tories. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would abstain rather than vote with the Tories. Lets see.
I think she’s saying that we’re not allowed a referendum until Labour is in a position to stitch this one up as well.
“Does anyone speak Dugdale?”
I do, but it’s damn near impossible to relay Elma Fud via posting.
Kezia thinks the decision should lie, lie and lie again with Ruth Harrison Dugdale.
Simples!
Peace Always
Just watched Angus Robertson on Victoria Derbyshire – The AECC is PACKED, YOONS TAKE A VERY GOOD LOOK – ESPECIALLY MAY.
Auld Rock
I am going to shout bollocks until somebody notices that you are all ignoring me and that i should get a say because i say so?
Looks like she’s advocating government policy by opinion polls now.
Davidson, Dugdale should hang their heads in shame at a soviet style democracy emanating out of westminster now. Rennie should also if he had the intelligence to do so.
Can we run a torygraph headline about these three calling them ("Tractor" - Ed)s and calling for them to be beheaded? I don’t think so, but we’re not low-life like the torygraph, daily heil etc.
I see the daily heil is reporting that T. May is not going to let Scots have a referendum for at least 6 years. I wonder if she’s hoping and praying that the SNP and Greens don’t have a majority in Holyrood before that.
Um…. nope, not a clue.
No real idea what that means.
I’m guessing that Kezia is saying that if there is an independence referendum she gets to decide the date and question or something else.
Like that is going to happen 🙂
Every Scottish Independence supporter should go out and buy the National today and every other day.
Our very own Rev has an article in it.;-)
Galactically stupid media: We interview Poundshop Borg Queen today.
Galactically stupid media: Poundshop what is your view on…
Poundshop interrupts: Am no aloud ma ain probe.
Galactically stupid media: Eh whit?
Poundshop: Do you know who I am?
Galactically stupid media: Eh thankyou Poundshop always a pleasure.
Poundshop: Ah cannae make up ma mind whit I enjoy mair pullin or sharing.
Galactically stupid media. Fuck we’ll huv tae cut that its the wrong side O the watershed.
“It can’t be stitched up by the FM or PM”?
Is she suggesting that the FM and PM are in cahoots to “stitch up” (Whatever that means) the referendum.
Or is she saying that only Dugdale, Davidson and Rennie should be allowed to “stitch it up”?
Is she just confused and looking for a sewing circle?
I guess she wants it glued down, not stitched up.
Psychologically it means “Why oh why is there no room for me and Labour to be involved in this?”.
Simple really. Your Party is dead Kezia.
I dont think its that hard to decipher, so I dont know what level of sarcasm we are in here.
What she is saying is that, if we are to have a new indyref it shouldnt be allowed to be enacted in such a way that massively favours one side. UKGvt or SGvt.
It shouldnt be a ‘stitch up’ a fake competition a fait accompli.
There not so difficult to understand her.
Do I agree that an indyref before A50 is done would be a stitch up, no I do not.
Well Rev, I think we are all stumped. When she votes with the Tories on the section 30 request, then she is allowing the TORIES to stitch up scotland, but she said she does not want that to happen.
I think theirs, labours, motion on the vote, will be just as clear as her tweet.
@Kezia Dugdale.. would you care to answer us please?
This could and should be twitted to KD by some other permitted twitterer.
(in parts 1 to 4)
Have a great start to your conference today Aberdeen!
We are in control,
Scotland.
Simple answer
No.
Sorry, I can’t translate stoopid.
I know, I know!!! d#[ir;k pseh2 si :U BFFIU
Right?
O/t
SNP Conference on Facebook live. Humza speaking
Somebody send her a picture of Willie Rennie and tell her this is how relevant you are.
If I were in the unfortunate position of being leader of Scottish Labour (shivers uncontrollably) I would recognise that the party is stuck in the middle between SNP & Tory and take a different course; give MSP’s a free vote on constitution/referendum/independence votes and publicly announce that domestic issues will get our full attention.
Labour are being marginalised in this debate, as they are just seen as Tory hangers-on, and there is no realistic alternative position for them to take. Won’t happen, mind…
By now, we have had heard most of the arguments, thoughts and debating points that might be relevant in the coming months.
As an “observer” the thing that I haven’t heard discussed yet is how Scottish voters might feel, or vote in another referendum, based upon the outcome of the UK’s Brexit negotiations with the EU.
I know many don’t agree with me, but I expect that, in short form, a deal will be agreed that will allow both sides to demonstrate that they stuck to their guns and “won”. The EU negotiators need to be able to demonstrate that it is not possible to “cherry pick” elements of the EU – whilst the UK wants tariff free access to the single market without free movement.
My guess is therefore that , in very simple terms, a deal will be struck where the UK will agree to pay a large sum (somewhere between £4 – £8 Billion per annum) to the EU to have the tariff free, frictionless access. This will allow the EU to demonstrate that you can’t have your cake and eat it – whilst the government will argue that the country has got everything it wanted, dropped everything it didn’t want, and the price is the same as it was – before we Brexited.
If, by the time indyref2 happens (whenever that is), a deal is agreed something like the one I have laid out above, would that help or hinder the cause of Independence supporters?
Implicitly, the UK would continue to have easy access to the single market – which is Ms Sturgeon’s “red line”.
One way of looking at this is that Ms Sturgeon is gambling everything on a negative outcome of the Brexit negotiations. As detailed above, I personally don’t think the outcome will be negative enough to give her the push she would need to win an indyref2 in her preferred timescales – be it consultative or binding .
Kezia is just lashing out Because Ruth has told her that they don’t need her or labour Anymore.
There once was a scottish labour party
All bright and colourful and gay
Then along came Kezia Dugdale
Now look at the state of it today
She has never given us any onions
To go with her load of tripe
But she has given us lots of dross
To pass around on skype
When all is said and done
And Kezia and her branch are broken
She will be gone and best forgotton
And the truth will then be spoken
alexicon
And put your copy through a letter box after reading it or on a bus on top of the Metro.
It’s a pity we can no longer call on Professor Stanley Unwind oh folloks deep joy none
@ alexicon says:
17 March, 2017 at 10:58 am
“Every Scottish Independence supporter should go out and buy the National today and every other day.
Our very own Rev has an article in it.;-)”
I’m buying 2 and leaving one on the bus. It’s in no way perfect but it is vital to get an alternative voice out there.
If you want to know what it means, you have to know who Kezia Dugdale’s political inspiration was.
link to youtube.com
Kez needs to be really careful.
She really needs to do a bit of reading, and I don’t make the point as a cheap jibe, but there was a certain Norwegian chap, name began with Q, who was passionate in his beliefs, frustrated by electoral disappointment, and was brought to power having bought into the beliefs of a neighbouring Nation, and was held in office artificially by a manipulative and unscrupulous power base outside his own country. Very soon, he was obliged to entertain notions which were not his own, and commit his Nation to actions which large sections of his country resisted and disdained. Life didn’t turn out so well for Mr Q, and history does not favour his memory.
Different times, and a different league, but what Mr Q lacked at important times was perspective towards his own circumstance, foresight and perception. For your own sake Kez, take a wee look at all three. It’s not meant as insulting rebuke, just pointing out that Kez perhaps might learn something constructive from the mistakes of others.
ronnie anderson says:
17 March, 2017 at 10:51 am
@ Rev
(re your National story) I got of the sofa years ago covering many miles & many events in the cause of Independence ( & will continue to do so however long needs must). We fight our cause for Independence on many fronts, the Bbc (direct action ) Protest’s are but one & a very important one.
I dont take kindly to being threatened by Legal action from the Bbc over non payment of the TV licence fee & contributing to the British Propoganda Machine. 2nd class citizen im not & never considered myself as such, bbc reinforce those messages constantly on a daily basis.
As for your description of those People attending the Bbc Bias Protest the event on 26th March
as Loonies ( that description might have applied rightly to myself a couple of years ago ) been there done that I dont wear the T shirt. I wont take offence at that comment & I hope that other Wingers/Yessers attending the event wont either.
I like many on this site value your daily contributions & that of the Wings Team BUT i take umbrage on behalf of the Many Many good People’s within the Yes Movement.
As I said we fight on many fronts.
She needs to stop her obsession with Independence and get back to her day job.
Work out how to get more than one elected MP and 4 directly elected MSPs
I have a notion she may trying to be channel Wee Willie Rennie rather than Truthless this time (as unlikely a prospect as it may at first seem).
At FMQs yesterday, I sensed that both of them have changed tack and given a little ground. Rather than attempt a blank refusal of ScotRef like the Tories, which could easily backfire, and backfire badly, they are instead aiming to drive a wedge into the “yes” movement by hoping to insert a firm committment to remaining in the EU along with indy in ScotRef.
It’s as cynical as hell, and a more subtle “poison pill” than the alternative ones like a 2/3 majority hurdle.
They detect a potential weakness stemming from people pushing the EEA/EFTA thing way beyond the original “remaining in the UK” compromise, I fear. Divide-and-conquer being deployed yet again.
We have to hold our ground and wait until we see the whites of their eyes. As the Brexit discussions with the EU27 unfold, pretty soon, and well before the autumn of next year is reached, people will be able to see for themselves the extent of the deep doo-doo that the Mayhem Gang are going to drag us into. And only the swivel-eyed zealots of right and left will be willing to take that foul plunge.
Kezia…oh Kezia…now dreaming of a cosy Quango number once her Tory Overlords defeat the blue faced impudents and remove all power and responsibility from Edinburgh forever.
Its the fact that she either:
Doesnt see this is the pending future
OR
Sees it and doesnt give a toss
The irrelevance of Scottish Labour continues to slide so much that the hinted at rebellion in next weeks vote might just be enough to kill it stone dead, or at least see Kezia have to make the walk of shame to the back seats which is the least she deserves
Translation: – “Look, Squirrels…”
I really wish somebody would explain to me where Unionists get this ‘majority of Scots are against Independence’ stat. Every week we get a new poll saying Nationalist is ahead of Unionsts and vice versa. These polls are notoriously unreliable and fort some their independence is questionable.
The Unionists spout it as a fact when the truth is when they have absolutely no idea.
Is it not strange that Labour supported the referendum bill even though the it was not in their manifesto. They voted with the governing party which only 37% of the vote. Now they claim 46% of the vote is not a sufficient mandate, as duplicitous as the Tories!
Labour needs to take a serious look at itself or are they merely playing follow my leader with Davidson. If so there is little point voting Labour, not when a purer version of unionism is available.
O/T…..BREAKING NEWS:
Get this…George Osborne….yes..that one!…has just been appointed Editor of the London Evening Standard!…lol
This is an easy one Rev
In Kezia speak she’s saying, “I’m the leader I’m the leader why wont anyone listen” Trouble is most people don’t speak Kez
I used to find her amusing but I’m afraid now I find her offensive in her efforts to position herself as something akin to politically gender neutral who demands our votes but offers no reason as to why except to keep saying “I’m the leader”
Day job? I had the misfortune to use a busy NHS facility I last used 12 years ago. Gobsmacked. I was xrayed iin 5 minutes,treated within the hour and home for coffee in less than 2 hours.Last time it took 14 hours for same treatment?
My grandchildren go to the local state primary so asked my daughter how was the school as the Tory Ruth Davidson says Scottish education is a disaster. My daughter,who was sent to a famous private school because of bullying,told me the local state school was a hundred times better than her school in terms of education but was also a very happy place. Incidentally the “bullying”. school where she suffered was “ruled” by A Head of Guidance ,a relative of the Labour Councillor and she WAS a disaster.
My translation of Dugdale is:
“I’ll skweam and skweak and skweam until I make myself sick, and, you know I can, and will”.
Looking through some of her other tweets, I think Ms Dugdale means that a second independence referendum should not be held until after we’ve left the EU, at the earliest — but preferably not until a generation has passed. Until yesterday, it seems to have been widely assumed that Mrs May’s position was that Scotland could have a referendum, but only after we’ve left — or at least, are within a few weeks of leaving. Now the commentators are choosing to interpret yesterday’s May position as being ‘Referendum, never!’. I don’t think this is what she’s said explicitly: one factor the London-based commentators don’t seem to have referred to, is that a strong element in what Mrs May said yesterday may be to reinforce the message that the Conservatives are the best people to give your anti-SNP vote in the Scottish local government elections.
Great to see Rev Stu writing in ‘The National’ today.
Makes it even more worth buying.
http://www.thenational.scot
For the life of me I just don’t get how stupid the Labour Party is and how utterly useless the MPS they have if they haven’t given Mad Dug the boot yet.
What I don’t understand is why haven’t any crossed the floor and joined the SNP or Green party (if they would have them) as I would if it was going to save my seat at next election.
I’m expecting quite a few Labour Councillors to stand as independents in the hope that they can save their seat !
Anyway back to my new novel Dumb & Dumber meet Dumbwit. The story of yoon politicians?
Years ago, I was witness to the hilarity in my local court when the legal representative to one young scalliwag read out a prepared statement, in the venacular, as dictated.
The Sheriff asked that it be repeated, to make sure he had picked it up correctly.
“The car wiznae wherr they said it wiz, but if it wiz, ah didnae pit it therr, anyway.”
Has Krazier been plagiarising court transcripts?
I think this point really needs hammered home. The Tories in Scotland, led by London Tory stooge Ruth Davidson, stood at the Scottish parliamentary elections last year on a firm manifesto commitment to block a second independence referendum. The tories lost.
The SNP stood on a specific manifesto commitment to hold a referendum if Scotland was being taken out of the EU. The SNP won.
@Sensibledave,
Appreciate what you say. However. The UK agreeing a deal will bring back on board those SNP members who are against the EU. It will not stop the drive to independence, because it looks like it will be Conservative rule for possibly the next 15 years.
That alone is incentive enough, I believe, to seek our own way.
There is for me, and many like me ,no turning back.
Dugdale speaking fundilymundily?
Anyway, call the referendum for Sept 2018 and get on with it regardless of Westminster.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Does anyone speak Dugdale? Scottish Labour’s regional branch manager (North Britain) clearly thought this was […]
Agree that everyone should buy the National today and every day. Can’t think it will help decipher Dugdalese though .
At a guess, like a lot of Yoons, the leader of ScoLabor is against Scotland having a choice in who rules over them. However, if Scotland does get have a second referendum and a chance to choose, she and ScotLabor don’t want to pass the opportunity to grab a piece of the action.
Dugdale is admitting that the real fight is between the pro-Independence parties and the predominantly Tory Yoons. ScotLabor is increasingly becoming nothing more than a Tory prop, otherwise an irrelevance.
More than a bit sad.
Robert Louis @ 11.52
Great to see Rev Stu writing in ‘The National’ today.
Makes it even more worth buying.
Definitely! I find it difficult to track down sometimes and travel a lot. Answer: digital subscription at £3.99 a month. Great value.
Dear dear, May is taking the piss out of Scotland while being in Wales.
More votes for independence then.
The FM cites the 2016 election result as her mandate for calling a second referendum.
In that election the parties supporting a referendum failed to win a majority of the votes in either the constituency r the regional votes. The outcome was that the majority was not voting for a second referendum – a democratic outcome that the SNP seems prepared to ignore.
Is it a thing now to call the FM ‘Mrs Sturgeon’? Andrew Neil there on DP and last night on QT a few did it.
Good article in The National today by Rev Stu…and guess what the sky did not fall in. Other newspapers and prickly journalists should take note.
Kez is a gift that keeps on giving. I have long since given up on Labour ever seeing sense because if they did they would have chucked all the CIA stooges they have among them, cleaned house and started again. They are now a gang, huddled together because they know that those who might break ranks will lose more than the self respect they would gain. I would not even try to dissemble what she us saying, I doubt she even knows.
@Phil Robertson
In 2015 the Tories + UKIP failed to gain a majority of the vote, but still held a EU referendum, but still claimed to have a mandate. Are you suggesting it is invalid
Note to Ms D – the only ones with experience of stitching up referendums, elections etc are yourselves and the other so called representatives of this ‘preciousss, preciousssss union’ – and that’s a fact, as seen from broken ‘vows’ and this week’s news about electoral shenanigans! People in glass houses shouldnae be throwin’ stones!
Queens eleven Murdo against the Brillo = no contest
@sensibledave
“If, by the time indyref2 happens (whenever that is), a deal is agreed something like the one I have laid out above, would that help or hinder the cause of Independence supporters?”
You can put forward a million scenarios and ask how would it affects support but you can only get 1 outcome therefore 999,999 outcomes are irrelevant.
The likeliest outcome is NO DEAL! because the UK Government is hard right wing blood and soil nationalist and they actually don’t give a flying fuck about deals all they care about is their “Independence” and gaining full control over all UK legislation.
That’s what the Scottish Government has to plan for. They have to take the worst case scenario or be caught unprepared freefalling without a parachute. If a better outcome actually occurs then they can adjust their strategy to accommodate it.
Never mind Murdo WATP Fraser being up to his knees in F***** blood; he was up to his neck in his own blood after giving a marvellous Black Knight from Monty Python impression as Oor Andra took him apart on Daily Politics.
Murdo Fraser claiming No SNP majority = no mandate…!!
Brillo…”what part of the SNP manifesto don’t you understand…”
Murdo…”but they didn’t get a majority”…
And the oscar goes to….Do-lala land
Stitch up? The VOW or Smith Commission anyone?
jfngw @ 12:28,
Well said there.
It’s a funny old “me-me-me” world that the yoonatics inhabit. They insist on “respect” for the votes they win while pretending the others never happened.
We’re not even sure if the Tories even won the 2015 UKGE. They are under police suspicion for allegedly having “bought” several marginal constituencies by dodgy funding practices.
And just now we have Brillo on TV arguing with Angus Robertson because the Great Commentator apparently thinks that opinion polls are far more important than a substantial election win on a clear mandate to have a referendum if we are taken out of the EU plus a whacking great majority in Scotland to remain in the EU.
A wierd, wierd place, BritNatWorld. Getting to look more and more like a dictatorship than a democracy.
jfngw says:
17 March, 2017 at 12:28 pm
@Phil Robertson
In 2015 the Tories + UKIP failed to gain a majority of the vote, but still held a EU referendum,
Not suggesting anything just pointing out a fact.
Are you suggesting that the SNP are copying the Tories and UKIP?!
I can translate for you!
This is an appeal for help.
She is saying that I’m way out of my depth as Head Girls of Labour’s North Accounting Unit, but no one else will touch the job.
I’ve driven the Party into none existence, and still they persevere with me. Why?
I didn’t even get elected by the people in my constituency for pities sake!
I don’t want Corbyn as the Party’s UK Leader, and he doesn’t want me.
Scotland’s Shadow Secretary of State for the Labour Party is a Born, Bread, and Living in England, member of parliament.
The single Scottish MP, who only got in with the deception of the UK Media, doesn’t want the job, and doesn’t want his leader.
I am now hoping for a complete Labour wipe-out in Scotland so that the corrupt cabal that runs Westminster can get me a part time consultancy job with a major bank at £50K per annum.
Just hope they don’t ask about Air Passenger Duty.
That’s a hard one.
@Phil Robertson,
The proposal is rather simple in a Democracy. You put your proposition to a vote in your legislature ,and if it garners sufficient support ,i.e. a majority,you act on it. Is that too difficult to understand?
I believe they use the same system in Westminster.
A dug will lick itself in public but it would never say anything as stupid as Dugdale in public
SNP conference is live here.
link to periscope.tv
Who’s Maj, anyway? Scotland’s last remaining labour voter?
I doubt if there’s anyone who understands what Kezia dugdale is saying about a second indyref.
My question would be, does Kezia Dugdale actually understand what she’s saying?
I can only speak Dugdale very late on a Saturday night and thankfully no-one listens to me either
“Not suggesting anything just pointing out a fact.”
link to imgur.com
Naw – yer being a walloper.
No big Unionist scam to keep the SNP conference off the front pages?
Dear, dear. Unionism isn’t what it used to be.
What Dugdale is saying is, Leave the stitching up to those with proven experience, i.e. Gogsy Broon and the Vowmakers.
Am I wrong to say that any party can propose any bill to be put to Parliament for a vote and if passed that bill becomes mandated? Irrespective of whats in anybodies manifesto?
Sorry, Rev Stu. She talks so fast, and she backtracks so many times, I’m still attempting to decipher what she was saying three moths ago but if it’s anything like she said six months ago it will contradict what she is saying now. Just like it contradicts what she said nine months ago.
It must be that her brain works so much faster than mine that I’m so slow to catch up.
Aye! That’ll be what it is – or mibbies no, or – ach! I’m awa fir a wee lie doon in a darkened room. Ah dinnna feel afu weel noo.
Is it not true to say that any bill passed by vote through Parliament is mandated?
Many no voters ‘believed’ Labour would win the GE15, remember the polls had them potentially ahead of the Tories with the idea of SNP being the ‘kingmakers’?
What don’t you get Davey boy? We don’t vote for Tory governments in Scotland. Do you really think this is about your chosen party’s ability to get some sort of cobbled together ‘good’ deal with the EU?
There’s a lot more to our referendum in 2018/19 than brexit negotiations, this is about ‘what kind of country do we want to live in’. It is clear by a country mile that Scotland wants no part of your country’s chosen path, the eu vote here in Scotland merely confirmed that reality.
For those not too keen on using Periscope link you can catch the conference on Facebook here.
link to facebook.com
Free Scotland,
“Gogsy Broon and the Vowmakers” – hee, hee – they were a one-hit wonder back in the 1960’s, weren’t they?
“Boom and bust” was the tune, wasn’t it? =laugh=
Listening on the BBC Lunchtime News, to Mother Theresa speaking at the Welsh Tories’ conference; the way she said “Baaad” reminded me of General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett KCB, VC, DSO saying: “BBAAAHHH”!
Perhaps Mrs May is a descendant of the good General.
I wish the ‘Labour for Indy’ group would set themselves up as a true Scottish labour party. Then in time the WM one would die, hopefully. Anyone got spare dosh to help them.
Just in case anyone thinks there will be balanced reporting of the SNP conference think again peeps. Just been informed that when SKY were interviewing Angus Robertson they cut away, CUT AWAY, from the interview to do a piece about the country’s largest family of Benefit scroungers.
Can you feel the love folks?
@JaceF says: 17 March, 2017 at 11:03 am:
”
” … Is she just confused and looking for a sewing circle”
Nah! She’s just sowing and looking for a confused circle.
Off topic, but happy St Patrick’s Day to everyone here. 🙂
There is opportunity here: Westminster will continue to stall [because that’s all they have] even after next week’s vote and even when the Scottish government sets a date for a referendum anyway. The SG should simply, slowly, without much fuss, go about its job as if it was a government of an independent nation.
It should enhance the friendship it already has with other European states. Establish Consolates – might as well call them Embassies. Agree trade deals with our European friends.
Establish a State Bank at home. Have it print its own money with, for example: “Twenty Pounds Scots [Sterling]”. Make it ready to produce “Twenty Pounds Scots”, or “…Merks…” or whatever.
Disrupt, peacefully, Faslane by pronouncing it a health hazard to all the people of Scotland. Hold back oil and water supplies to England because of “safety reasons”.
Kezia is obviously speaking Klingon!
She wants to
kling on to her job as leader of the Labour Party branch in north Britain,
kling on to her precious Union, and
kling on to her Tory friends.
In fact she just wants to kling on to everything as long as it doesn’t involve giving Scotland the chance to prove it can be a successful independent nation and take it’s place alongside its peers.
Don’t kling on to the past for too long Kezia, but take a tip from Mr. Spock, “change is the essential process of all existence”
I can’t believe these Unionists and their Referendumb signs.
Scotland is trying to save its future economy from the consequences of dumbest referendums ever held in history, and do it democratically after the ramifications are known as far as they can be known. England meanwhile makes hostages of EU immigrants and vilifies refugees fleeing war zones where there are British aircraft doing the bombing, and treats it poor and vulnerable like cattle en route to the he knackers yard.
Is this setting the standard for the caliber of Scotland in Union??? It’s so tragic it’s not even funny.
At least Better Together didn’t smear the world Scotland by association unlike these pig ignorant BritNat astroturfers.
It is my understanding that Dugdale tried to join the S.N.P. And was refused membership I don’t no why but after that she joined the Labour Party so she must have believed in Scottish independence at one point in her life and it would also explain her hatred of the S.N.P.
BTW: what about the s0-called Great Repeal bill? Does Holyrood have a vote/veto on that? If so we should veto it.
According to R4 1 o’clock news, the good people of Leeds don’t think we should be allowed another referendum. To a man and woman. So that’s it then. Welcome to the English colony!
Heseltine fears a hard Brexit, and believes that people will change their mind when the realities of Brexit begin to dawn (which is extremely likely), and hopes that somehow (by divine intervention, presumably) it can be stopped at the 11th hour..
But the death dive off the Brexitcliff mustn’t be stopped by Scotland on its own, oh, no, no, Theresa’s right about that.
And meanwhile the lederene in Cardiff has picked up on the new BritNat script I mentioned above, and apparently we don’t want the EU any more anyway.
Just like we don’t want a referendum either, do we?
Always, always, keep in mind that what your enemies fear most is what makes you strongest.
Anyone wanting a translation of Dugdale speak I can strongly suggest these people as interpreters.
link to youtube.com
Ronnie Anderson @ 11.21
Well said Ronnie, I was a bit hurt as well the the Rev took a swipe at the protesters (us),but I suppose it’s each to his/her own point of view, otherwise what’s the movement for.
I see them not just as a part of gaining a bit of attention for the Yes campaign (indecently I don’t know about more attention than the,underground advertising fiasco but, they are certainly longer lasting in the sense that they are re-reported more) takin the view that then and probably now,any publicity for Yes was a good thing.
There was very little else going on.
But also that Yes or No this is an issue that needed highlighted.
The BBC/Broadcasting not only will need to be addressed when we are Independent.
They will still be Scotland’s main broadcasters during the delicate time between the Yes vote and Independence day, Sooo somebody somewhere should be letting them know there is a group who are paying attention.
So in that sprit…… I will see ye there Ronnie & shout up if youse are needing a hand,and I will leave the dug (Who doesn’t like the BBC either) and pitch in.
Thanks for link LA…best one 🙂
“BTW: what about the s0-called Great Repeal bill? Does Holyrood have a vote/veto on that? If so we should veto it.”
I’m sure if the SG veto it a lot of powers we have resort back to westminster.
Not a good idea to do that.
What is the difference between an opinion poll and an election in a parliamentary democracy?
The former polls opinions and reports data on the results. The other elects representatives of the people and leads in turn to an elected government. The latter is then expected to pursue its manifesto commitments. To be implemented, these same commitments need to be put to a vote in the parliament where they must secure a majority.
So is Mr Robertson @12.20pm wishing a different form of democracy? Seemingly not a parliamentary one. And is this a different form just for Holyrood or also for Westminster?
Is Scotland’s devolved system of parliamentary democracy just ‘bad’, in addition to all the other ‘bads’ this unfortunate Scotland uniquely suffers from?
Maybe we should just be grateful our one Tory MP from Scotland is a cabinet member of the all powerful UK government – he is so well placed to represent all of the Scottish electorate in taking forward the Tory Party’s mandate in Scotland.
@ ronnie anderson – I think most of us are not taking offence at something or other that the Rev has said!
I just watched the women at the SNP conference speak up about the “Women’s Academy”. Many of them standing as councillors at the local elections. Good to hear their confidence growing in standing for public office and speaking in public.
Stu is not a fan of positive discrimination.
(I also like support for Gaelic)
Oh well – there’s no rule that we all have to believe the same things.
Good luck with your protest at the BBC. I too receive the regular threatening letters. So far, nobody has turned up at my door. I’ll be watching out for pix of the protest. Flag thingy.
If Brexit unfolds with no deal in place, then we are looking at S.S. Gt Britain vanishing beneath the waters of financial uncertainty
The two first mates are staying aboard. One of them Nicola Sturgeon is trying to hand out life belts, whilst the other Mrs May, is handing out concrete blocks.
Which would you choose?
Wonder how many Labour MSPs will fall ill next week or find themselves otherwise engaged.
Will they be allowed to abstain or will Kez ensure everyone of them are hung drawn and quartered along with her and Mr Sarwar who will be picturing himself in that Leader position soon enough.
Its now becoming a fact that the only point of relevance for Scottish Labour is people discussing their irrelevance.
Its a sad day when Wullie Rennie and his poxy wee EU/UK badge annoys me more than a hollowed out Scottish Labour ensemble.
As far as I can tell there are two types of ‘stitch-up’ in Dugdale’s book:
1) Enacting a manifesto commitment when in government.
2) Standing for both constituency and list seats to become elected (until your party is performing so abysmally that you accept this practice and cease to mention it, even gaining your own place by it).
Let me simplify.
Kezia Dugdale / Opinion = Flip flopping train wreck.
See also : Ruth Davidson = Flip flopping > deception > careerist. (Oh and No surrender!)
There, hows that.
@Arbroath1320
I’m liking this link more than periscope to the SNP conference. Thanks. 🙂
Lots of nice comments from around the world too!
link to facebook.com
“That doesn’t get us anywhere in establishing who the decision should rest with. We’d ask Kezia Dugdale directly, but she blocks us on Twitter. Can anyone translate?”
They know that like the blue tories, they have little to lose now. Their union is save by May piling in with her block and how bad can it get? They’re at rock bottom, May council elections dont look great for them at all.
So they’re just settling in to a UKOK zone status quo. Let the BBC Scotland freak show continue to do the heavy anti SNP lifting and at the very least, the mortgage is getting paid.
The longer she clings on, the more chance of jobs in England, who do reward them well.
@ ronnie
Ach he was pulling yer leg big man he knew damn fine what he was writing lol
STV has once again STATED that Teresa May has said NO to another Indyref and then asked the FM if she will UDI.
What the fuck man?
If it was possible to strangle a Television.
@Tam the Bam. says: 17 March, 2017 at 11:34 am:
” … Get this…George Osborne….yes..that one!…has just been appointed Editor of the London Evening Standard!…lol”
Aye! Tam, but he has form on that count, a damn sight more than he had as a Tory Chancellor. While at Oxford he edited his House’s Magazine and on graduating attempted to find work as a journalist. No major London paper would employ him and he settled for freelance work on the Peterborough diary column of The Daily Telegraph.
Some time later an Oxford friend of his, journalist George Bridges, alerted Osborne to a research vacancy at Conservative Central Office. Then he joined the Conservative Research Department.
Seems he was no better as a journalist than he was as a chancellor.
Googliegeek.
Like May she just sounds more and more ridiculous.
Nicola just carries on regardless. Totally.
I think I’ve identified the language used as tat of Homer Simpson.
Whenever her lips are moving, I just hear
“Blah be blah, blah blah blee blee blah”
Thats all that registers ??
Lots of posters using nautical terminology in refering to Brexit: “The SS Great Britain going down with all hands” etc.
Got me thinking. When the Titanic went down, you had a better chance of survival if you were in First Class.
With Brexit, it is us Second Class Scottish citizens who have the best chance of survival, through staying in Europe while England leaves.
Robert Peppers @ 1.59
Re Osborne
I thought his family background was wallpaper not newspaper.
Seems he may have to give up being an MP though if he takes the editor’s job. I wonder if Mrs May will say ‘not now – too busy’ to that by-Election?
Ok…. took as step back,tilted ma heid tae the side, closed one eye and…..
What I Think !!! she Might!!!! Possibly, Potentially be tryin to say in a round about way!
Is that…. Tank commander will have her No Campaign!
Nicola will have the YES of course why would you not Campaign!
And Kez wants one too!
At a guess she is trying to say that there should be a third option on the ballot,and what ever that one is….She bags it as hers.
Osbourne
The staff look disillusioned. How long will it last?
More cuts to English schools.
The reasoned argument:
I want Scottish Independence but I don’t want to be in the EU therefore I’ll vote No or not vote at all
Who are these people?
Did they not get the point of Independence the first time, let me Splain, Independence = choice, No Independence = no choice
The EU protects choice Westminster takes it away, did nobody hear what Theresa May said
If you believe the EU rules everything then you’re agreeing with Nigel Farage and you might as well join UKIP
Once the Tories start deregulating what they want, your Arbroath Smokie for your breakfast will magically turn up in your supermarket as a British Grimsby Smokie with a Union Flag slapped on the front of it just like most of the food is appearing now or haven’t you noticed
Asda British shortbread with little Buckingham palace guarding people on the front with a Union Flag slapped on it
Supermarkets full of various varieties of breaded battered or skinless British COD with a Union Flag slapped on the front
How many people in Scotland even eat COD we know Haddock’s better, where is it
Get with the program and learn something about the EU before doing a Farage or you’ll be blaming immigrants next
But for God sake don’t leave us at the mercy of the damn Tories for the next 20 years by which time Labour will have gone so the likelyhood is we’ll get the bloody Liberal Democrats and they’re just greetin faced pretendy Tories
O/T
Well, here’s one Tory who understands the truth i.e. that IT’S SCOTLAND who subsidises the rest of the UK…
link to youtube.com
Legerwood says:
17 March, 2017 at 2:06 pm
Robert Peppers @ 1.59
Re Osborne
I thought his family background was wallpaper not newspaper.
You can bet Kez is watching Osborne’s incredible CV building, with real envy. I think Kez would make a great actress, BBC style, in soaps, she’s got melodrama down pat especially.
No view of the ‘audience’ at the Tory meeting.
Oh god just watching Kezia and trying to follow Kezia speak , take her notes away and she’s lost.
Any truth in the rumour Labour in Scotland have offered Jackie Ballie for the post of maths teacher that is currently vacant in the I can’t remember the place sorry, but it’s the one Tory Ruthie was screaming about in Hollyrood , yes a national disaster a School is missing a Teacher f/k me she’s on the ball isn’t she. Surely First Minister Material there.
@ Liz g
Devomax bestest of federalism ever as third option?
Come to think of it that might not be such a bad idea this time as all it will do is split the yoon vote the most hmmmm.
Well we got 45% on the yes they got 55% on no/devomax lie how many of that 55% would vote for devomax and not no.
No wonder Houdini Dave did not want it on the 2014 ref but used it in the last week to boost no.
Plus it would take away any last minute vow mk2 of shiny beads for the stupid.
Poor Kezia, is there nobody in the Northern Branch to keep her on the straight and narrow?
Just in case anyone thought there was NO case for our “beloved” union with its “broad shoulders” may I suggest reading this? 😉
link to twitter.com
@Phil Robertson says: 17 March, 2017 at 12:20 pm:
“The FM cites the 2016 election result as her mandate for calling a second referendum.”
Which is actually true.
“In that election the parties supporting a referendum failed to win a majority of the votes in either the constituency r the regional votes.”
Claptrap, Phil and you know it.
You must imagine we Wingers are as gyte as you unionists.
It does not work as you claim. Those opposed to a referendum did not belong to a single political party and neither did those against a referendum but elections are run on party politics lines and not on the lines of support for referendums.
So what if the collective non-SNP parties gained more votes? That does not give them a collective manifesto of promises any more than the combined SNP and Greens gave the SNP a collective manifesto promise.
Factually the SNP were the party who gained the majority of the votes and were elected as the Scottish Government.
No other single party came anywhere close.
What the SNP have not got, and do not claim to have, is an overall majority.
So the fact is that they were the party with a majority over any other party but did not get an overall majority over the collective other parties. Which collective figure, BTW, also includes the Greens.
The Unionists across the media are being allowed unquestioned to state that Scottish education ,health etc is in a dire state. Compared to England and Wales our record is good.
We need to stop this creeping unjust attack. Yes we must not be complacent but we can do without Councils trying to filch the money targeted on improvements.
The whole point of attending the demonstration is meeting fellow objectors to this monster propaganda corporation. Being a keyboard warrior in a garret someplace only goes so far, people on the street is what matter, people is what it is all about!
I suspect that she already has her retirement holiday planned. She’ll be missed!
What is in Scotland for labour?
Long have I thought the north british branch should adopt an SDLP type relationship with the English labour party. Mutual support until Ireland unites, but in meantime entirely separate parties. In Scotland this would mean mutual support until Scotland gains its independence.
For labour in England, the northern branch is a financial drain and liability. For the northern branch, England looks too right wing and puts the voters off.
labour in Scotland are dying, contrast the two conferences, labour and SNP in the space of three weeks one packing out a large venue the other unable to fill a small venue even when the leader from England came to speak.
I’d rejoice at the current north british branch folding, however I would like to see a proper labour party come independence, a party with new and fresh left of centre ideas and not the current dead hand nobodies like Gray, Bailey and Dugdale, etc whom take great delight in working with the tories and running Scotland down.
Arbroath1320,
Thanks for that insight via RogueCoder into the mindset of one Tory Councillor.
All I can say is that he seems to have been having a lot of children all over the place! =laugh=
Phil Robertson says:
17 March, 2017 at 12:20 pm
The FM cites the 2016 election result as her mandate for calling a second referendum.
In that election the parties supporting a referendum failed to win a majority of the votes in either the constituency r the regional votes. The outcome was that the majority was not voting for a second referendum – a democratic outcome that the SNP seems prepared to ignore.
_________________________________________
Trouble is Phil, the Scottish parliament is made of both direct mandate MSPs and List MSPs. You cannot pick and mix to suit your arguement. Combined, they give very much a mandate to independence seeking parties. The SNP and the Greens, together, make up more than 50% of the Scottish parliament’s elected membership. If you doubt this, look to next week’s vote.
It translates as “I used to be indecisive but now I’am not sure !”
Mike s12:33 pm
You wrote “The likeliest outcome is NO DEAL! because the UK Government is hard right wing blood and soil nationalist and they actually don’t give a flying fuck about deals all they care about is their “Independence” and gaining full control over all UK legislation.
I disagree Mike. Isn’t it absolutely obvious that an independent democracy based 20 miles off the coast of Europe and a trading bloc of countries in the Eu with very similar values – will reach an equitable trading arrangement? Both sides want and need an agreement or they risk uncertainty and financial depression.
Unless you believe the EU is made up of a bunch of complete loonies why wouldn’t they want to do a deal? I wrote earlier about the type of deal that will probably be done.
You have got yourself hung up on the NO DEAL thing. That is not the outcome we want Mike. It is not the outcome the EU wants. NO deal is there as a backstop that is all. In the event of a No Deal, german car makers, such as Mercedes, would immediately face a 10% tariff on their car exports to their biggest export market in the world – this being on top of currency movements that have already made their cars less competitive. Amd with the French Farmers (not renowned for their patience with their government), why would they want tariffs put on top of their exports to the UK on top of the unfavourable currency movements?
No Mike, a deal will be done and, it will involve “Free” trade with the EU (well, as “Free” as our net £8.5 Billion contribution currently is anyway).
The question is: when Holyrood votes for Indyref2 next week, will Kezia Dugdale/”Scottish” Labour side with the Scottish Parliament (ie, us) or the Tories?
Hmmm, let me think now…
If I was a Slab MSP I think I’d pull a sickie for that day.
Blair Paterson – Why would she have been rejected from joining the SNP? Christ, if they’ll take me!
@Sensibledave,
Are you really Boris Johnson. ? It is great to have someone like you on here posting insider knowledge on how Westminster is going to conclude a deal.
Unfortunately you should have a word with your Brexit lead Mr Davis, who openly admitted at the Brexit Committee meeting just this week that tariffs might well have to apply.
Perhaps you should take over as lead negotiator Eh ?
Robert Peffers
“Claptrap, Phil and you know it.”
Your grasp of reality is truly Trumpian.
“Factually the SNP were the party who gained the majority of the votes and were elected as the Scottish Government.”
Since when did 46.5% (constituency vote) and 41.7% (regional vote) become majorities? Come back to the real world where majorities have to exceed 50%.
Arbroath1320 says:
17 March, 2017 at 2:28 pm
Just in case anyone thought there was NO case for our “beloved” union with its “broad shoulders” may I suggest reading this? ?
link to twitter.com
Thanks for this link – the funniest thing I have read in ages.
Surely to God some Labour MSPs will at the very least, abstain?
Can Neil Findlay really align himself with the Blue Tories? Really?
Jenny Mara as next leader through the revolving door?
Anas? Titter ye may.
They really are the Tribe That Lost Its Head.
@Phil Robertson.
“When did 46.5% cost and 41.7 regional become majorities”
To be truthful, at nearly every election in the UK in my lifetime. How about you Phil?
Phil Robertson is Willie Rennie I claim my tenner 🙂
@sensible Dave
I can only debate with you if you keep your posting within the realms of reality.
You describe a UK nobody else recognises.
This isn’t going to be a negotiation between trading blocs its a negotiation between political parties representing 31 different countries with 31 different political agendas.
4 of them within the UK itself.
Car dealers Whisky producers candlestick makers aint going to get a say and don’t pretend they will.
This is not a listening Government. This is a hard boiled right wing extremist blood and soil Nationalist Government with a hard boiled right wing extremist blood and soil agenda.
Worse still its incompetent. It actually doesn’t know what the fuck its doing from one day to the next.
I know you don’t believe for one second that this Government is the Government of choice for a delicate negotiation process yet its the Government we’re stuck with.
you’re so full of fantasy best case scenarios as if they have any chance to materialise in reality.
You completely ignore the very nature of the Government.
They are already talking about trade in terms of the USA and Asia.
They are preparing us to accept as given the UK will get super-duper special deals with the US and Asia once its free of EU regulation.
No sunshine all you’re doing is pushing pure propaganda because frankly that’s all pro yoonionism has.
@David Caledonia
================
Very unfair on the puir wee lassie..the Labour Party in Scotland was in serious decline before Kezia got near the job; in fact it’s only because it was in such a mess that she got to be in charge (if “in charge” is the right phrase).
Otherwise, nice wee verse.
@ronnie anderson
===============
You are misrepresenting what the Rev said. He didn’t call anyone Loonies; he said that’s how the MSM, especially the Beeb would represent demonstrations at the Quay. It’s fine if you still think it’s worth doing but you’re putting words in his mouth he didn’t use (a bit like the MSM you complain about).
@Phil Robertson says: 17 March, 2017 at 12:43 pm:
” … Not suggesting anything just pointing out a fact.
Are you suggesting that the SNP are copying the Tories and UKIP?!”
Why do total numptie unionists like you fondly imagine you are brighter that you are and think you can get away with lies, misdirection’s and wrong conclusions?
Is it something that goes along with being a unionist or does being a unionist go along with being a total numptie?
That fact you claim as factual is claptrap. Elections throughout the United Kingdom run on party lines and only a dishonest numptie claims otherwise.
Yet here you are attempting to claim that the three unionist parties should be lumped together as if they were one party. Mind you in relation to Scotland they certainly present a unified union face to the electorate.
I already pointed out that the SNP are in fact in power at Holyrood by gaining by far the majority of votes over every other individual party and thus were elected with a majority.
What they do not claim, or have, is an overall majority over the rest of the Holyrood parties.
Thing is, like every other mathematics equation, when you do the calculation on one side of the equation you must also do the same calculation on the other side or the result is wrong.
Thus SNP+SGs = total and Lab+Lib+Tory=smaller Total.
And that, Phil, is a majority over the other three unionist parties.
Now off you go to play with your other little unionist lying friends – there’s a good chap.
Phil Robertson,
You are a disingenuous cretin. You nit-pick about “majorities” in a parliament that is explicitly designed to make an absolute majority difficult if not outright impossible based on a voting system that is roughly proportional to popular opinion, yet you promote allegiance to a UK parliament that operates as an elective dictatorship based on a mere third of the popular vote and determined largely by swing voters in a couple of handfuls of so-called marginal constituencies. Many of which are currently under police investigation for possible funding fraud.
Look to your own house first, because it stinks! (And we won’t mention the House of Cretins, the largest unelected assembly in the world besides the Chinese.)
All we want to be able to do is to take out own decisions our own way. Something which you apparently find utterly objectionable. But since you and your fellow travellers have made it as plain as daylight that there is no room whatever for exercising that right in your precioussss lop-sided Union, we are leaving. Simples!
So get lost. Go argue with your fellow BritNats and sort out your own parliament, instead of wittering so idiotically (and even personally insultingly) about our significantly superior one.
Since when did 46.5% (constituency vote) and 41.7% (regional vote) become majorities? Come back to the real world where majorities have to exceed 50%.
OI! Phil the tory gov reprobates only got about 35% electoral vote, with at least 10 million voters not even bothering to vote anymore.
Look at the carnage the tories have caused with their 35% constituency vote Phil.
And they are clearly at it, election expenses wise too. Some may even end up in the UKOK slammer, again.
Angus Robertson nailed this pish about “the polls show no desire for a referendum” on Daily Politics today.
His response was as simple as it was cutting.
“You do not get political mandates from opinin polls”.
The people of Scotland were polled in 2016 and gave a mandate for a referendum.
link to conservativehome.com
Look at it Phil, gaze upon the glory that is tory reign of shite, across the UK and now PM May is the Great Dictator of her Scotland region.
Yes I know Phil, we voted NO 2014, for all of it.
Capella (13:42) re no rule us all having to believe the same..
And thank goodness for that. No matter how good the Revs work is I wouldn’t waste one second of my time on here if we all acted like Bunionists and sang from the same book.
Salmond, Sturgeon and Campbell are 3 people who I have the greatest respect for and am one of their biggest supporters but I disagree with all 3 of them when it comes to their similar positions on not wasting our time attacking the BBC.
I for one tend to see WOS, and the wider Yes movement, as a micro Scotland full of differing opinions but all brought together under the one common goal of wanting the very best for our country, independence.
When I think of Yoon goons I’m often reminded of the scene from the Super Mario Brothers film where Mario & Luigi are in the lift (elevator) and they are soon joined by some Goombas who then all end up swaying from side to side in sync with the lifts background music.
That’s how I tend to visualise Unionists, watch the clip on YouTube and see just what I mean, see how easy they are all swayed from side to side as the brothers (Scotland) make their escape. Very funny!
PS: Sorry, can’t do links from this device. Can’t wait to get fully operational again. Have a great weekend troops. 😉
@ Croompenstein
lol you could be right about that it would explain my reaction of just ignoring him lol
Kezia Dugdale is a time waster, but the time being wasted is not hers but ours, when we spend time on her. She has managed to waste a lot of time on here today, now including mine.
@Helena Brown says:
======================
Yeah. I recall that when the Steven Purcell story broke I briefly thought: This is so outrageous, so serious, Scottish Labour have got to use it as a lever to get rid of all the wasters, all the corrupt chancers and start again as a better party.
But only briefly (and only I think because I was a former Labour voter hoping against hope for them to turn away from what they had become). Shortly after I thought: Naw…they won’t, they’ll do some fudge, kick out a few of the most expendable and carry on as before
Sadly – yes, sadly because we deserve better people working for us in politics – I was proved correct.
@ Phil Robertson.
“In that election the parties supporting a referendum failed to win a majority of the votes in either the constituency r the regional votes. The outcome was that the majority was not voting for a second referendum – a democratic outcome that the SNP seems prepared to ignore.”
A wilfully moronic claim to make after we’ve just endured a Brexit referendum mandated on a 27% level of election support for the manifesto that contained the pledge to hold it.
I say wilful because you knew this and still posted that horseshit. That makes you either a party official or a party activist with an agenda to shit stir.
Best wishes to all who attend the protest at the BBC a week on Sunday , They get bigger and bigger , and despite some people not approving of them , they do get noticed , they do have some effect , better that than nothing , and streets ahead of leafleting , sorry but political flyers are classed the same as junk mail, 99.99 % of the time they go straight in a recycling bin .
Possible explanation of Kezia’s duplicate tweet: she hit the button once, but wasn’t sure she’d done so. Then, just to allay her doubts, she hit the button again. She’s got problems wi’ buttons, pair lassie.
I think what Kez was actually trying to say was that she’s pulling Labour out of the upcoming council elections because they’re too “divisive”.
Its just the mere thought of all that divisiveness (and likely ensuing brutal rejection) that is making her brain hurt so badly she can’t even articulate the decision properly.
Better just follow whatever the Tories do, eh Kez? Until they replace SLab completely, of course. Then you can find something far more personally rewarding to do than represent a decaying political corpse.
It will be a great liberation, I’m sure.
In UK politics, the term ‘majority’ is used to mean the amount by which a party’s vote exceeded the next largest party vote whether by constituency or nationally.
Mr Robinson seems to be confusing it with an ‘overall majority’, where a party’s vote exceeds all others combined, which rarely happens at the constituency level and virtually never at the national level.
I’m sure every UK government for the past half century at least would be very surprised to find out that they never had a mandate for any of the thousands of policies they have enacted over that period, none of them, ever.
Here are a few thoughts from Craig Murray about the way forward from here.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
I linked to a previous article by Craig a few weeks ago and suggested a National Assembly looked like the way forward. After ready this I stand by my thoughts. I would not however be put out to having an Advisory Referendum first. This would, in my view, just add even more credence to the formation of the National Assembly and ultimate declaration of independence.
“Theresa May has accused the SNP of being “divisive and obsessive” nationalists”
Eh? Who are the divisive nationalists with a Hell bent obsession to separate from the EU?
Not the SNP!
Look in the mirror, T.May.
Dugdale blocks you because she’s afraid of the truth.
Nice bit in the National Rev, well done.
STV going on about Scotgov holding a ‘wildcat’ referendum. Give me strength.
Borg Queen: What the fuck are ye daein noo?
Poundshop Borg Queen: Ye telt me tae get ma ducks in a row before ma next interview.
Borg Queen: splutters But but they’re real fucking ducks.
Poundshop: Ah ken that Did ye think A didnae ken whit a fuckin Duck looks like? You try getting the wee bastards tae stand in line.
Should anyone have a problem contacting the translation services of the people I linked to earlier I have it on good authority that these people are equally as good and are willing to step in as a replacement if required.
link to youtube.com
@sensibledave
I admire your belief in the competence of your negotiators in Brexit dealings with the EU. Despite your efforts to appear a dispassionate realist I think, like many on your side of the argument, you actually ascribe to Westminster politicians a level of sophistication for which there is little evidence.
The very fact that we are embroiled in this farrago of farce and unfolding ramification called Brexit, is evidence of bluster and bluff in place of thought. Of course, no one believes that they are willing walk away without a deal. That was absurd braggadocio that fools no one, least of all the EU negotiators. Does David Davies, Brexit secretary, in his latest appearance before the Commons committee, fill you with confidence?
In an earlier comment, you appear to think that access to the single market without free movement is easily achievable. Just pay and all will be well. Even if you subscribe to the idea that political expediency always trumps principle, then allowing those restive right-wing populists in the EU to think that the principle of free movement could be so easily dispensed with, would be foolish politically. EU politicians understand the danger to the EU project of allowing that idea to become established. They are not simply striking attitudes when they declare that the single market and free movement are inseparable.
Sometimes, it’s not all about money, though it’s difficult to get a Tory to understand that.
Nice to see Stu in the National today. What’s your take on that Rock? Rock? Anybody seen Rock?
Kezia is on target for the HoL…all she has to do is keep knocking Scotland. But why does the Labour Party put up with her?
Arbroath 1320
The obvious flaw in an advisory referendum is that the Unionists would be advised to boycott it and it would probably end up being a massive Yes vote but with little legitimacy in the wider world.
We will certainly get an agreed referendum in due course and I have every confidence that we will win it. For one thing the demographics are greatly in our favour, so the more it is delayed the more the Yes voters increase. As the older voters (of which I am one, sadly) pass on the younger, mainly Yes voters replace them.
I reckon each year that passes adds 2% to the Yes side. Time is on our side.
Rob, please don’t invite any comment from that particular poster. It’s been a good day.
The problem with looking at absolute percentages is that external conditions can affect turnout as can voter expectation. So if an area, or even the whole of Scotland, was persuaded that the SNP were going to romp home in 2016 that might persuade their opponents to get their vote out but it might also deter SNP voters whilst encouraging Greens.
A more practical factor might be weather conditions or even latitude affecting daylight hours. Basically unless there’s a uniform turnout you can’t really translate individual results into national levels of support.
Robert Peffers
“I already pointed out that the SNP are in fact in power at Holyrood by gaining by far the majority of votes over every other individual party and thus were elected with a majority.”
As I have already pointed out, votes less than 50% are not a majority, never mind “by far”. You are, not for the first time, wrong.
While you spout verifiable mistruths like the statement above, you should be wary of calling others liars.
Tory strategy is to play for time. They hope …
1. Keep Scotland out of their hair while they negotiate Brexit with EU
2. Post Brexit they can behave more aggressively / dictatorially
3. Post Brexit, deny EU citizens a vote which could be ~2% added to YES
4. 2020 general election and improve the Tory UK level mandate
5. 2021 Holyrood election and remove Indy majority
…. and we need to ensure we move sooner.
I’ve noticed how May’s voice is sounding more and more like Thatcher’s: so sickenly “precious” it’s overwhelmingly insincere. It can only help the independence movement in Scotland.
It’s strange that the yoon posters are suddenly out in strength, methinks the 77th brigade is on overtime.
Poor things I think they are being outclassed.
@JGedd
The fact they couldn’t work out who was supposed to be paying the bus fares during the last general Election gives me cause to wonder too.
Phil Robertson
“As I have already pointed out, votes less than 50% are not a majority, never mind “by far”. You are, not for the first time, wrong.”
problem is you pointed that out in a context of mandate. You said no majority no mandate and yet as I pointed out to you we just had a Brexit referendum called on a 27% support for the manifesto that called for it.
Within the UK you clearly don’t need a 51% support for anything in order to gain a mandate so stop stupidly and dishonestly denying the reality of UK politics.
The Scottish Government is working well within the standards for Democratic mandates set by the UK establishment itself.
And you fucking know it!
May [as Tubbs Tattsyrup from league of gentlemen]:
I covet the “precious precious” things.
This is a britnat shop for britnat people; there’s nothing for you Scots in here.
The Trolls aren’t here to discuss anything with you folks they’re only here to see their names and ridiculous comments printed and because they need somebody to talk to, anybody will do and that’s kinda wierd don’t you think
These people are comedy nicknames for Lady and Mens genital parts and lonely internet freaks wandering the internet annoying folk who don’t agree with them
What normal people do that?
I understand that is a distinct possibly FPJ but I think we have to show OUR willingness to talk and act on an even playing field no matter what the ignorant opposition do. I accept your suggestion that an “advisory” referendum would be hijacked by unionists not voting. However, by still holding one that is open and fair and seen to be fair even when unionists refuse to vote we can, I believe, be seen to be doing everything in our power to consult, advise and entrust the will of the people. If a proportion of the people choose not to vote out of spite then we can not be held responsible for that.
No doubt we will get an “agreed” referendum at some point but that will, in effect, be at the whim of WM and NOT at the time demanded by the people of Scotland or its government. At the end of the day it is surely the people’s government of Scotland that should have the say as to when a referendum is called not the whim of a non elected Tory government in London.
In my blinkered view should WM deny us our referendum when WE want one then they are contravening the U.N. Cgharter.
link to un.org
Article 2 reads:
2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
By denying us our referendum when WE decide then WM is clearly denying us our FREE determination.
Should WM decide to block our referendum when WE decide to hold one then, in conjunction with article 2, I believe we should move straight to Craig Murray’s third point congregate a National Assembly the outcome of which will be a declaration of independence. This is based purely on gthe current numbers of pro and anti independence supporting politicians. (M.P’s, M.S.P’s and M.E.P’s) Any politician that does not attend the N.A. is just betraying their electorate but also making the declaration of independence so much easier to achieve.
Come to think about it I think it wouldn’t do US any harm at all if unionist politicians stayed away from the N.A. They would look even more stupid than they already are with their noses well and truly put so far out of joint. 😀
What is all this talk of parties getting more than 50% in elections?
The last time was 1935 when Stanley Baldwin’s National Government won 55%. As this was a ‘popular front for national unity’ it can be challenged as an actual party win.
Prior to this was Lord Salisbury in 1900 with 50.3%. This was achieved through a pre election alliance between Conservatives and Liberal Unionists so again could be seen as an exceptional situation.
By UK historical standards, the SNP government has a mandate beyond virtually anyone before. The pro Indy grouping in Parliament is in an even stronger position.
Yes, in iScotland I would hope we have broad coalition governments representing over 50% of voters. However we need to get there first and that means playing by UK’s rules and lower standards.
galamcennalath,
Yes, that 2% alone would be enough to swing it for us. Those votes are there for the asking, as sure a thing as there ever will be in politics. So why delay, when accidental “events” as well as deliberate London actions can only intrude in the meantime?
The fact that the Mayhem Gang want to postpone ScotRef (for ever and a day if they could get away with it) is all the proof you need that Nicola has called it dead right.
It’s us that should be shouting “unfair” from the rooftops, not those damned arrogant democracy-deniers.
Why aren’t Yoons braying like Wendy and saying bring it on are they scared the ‘silent majority’ isn’t there anymore?
JGedd
I agree with much of what you say except the bit where you believe that the UK Government is serious about getting a deal.
The ONLY deal they are interested in comes as the default of the consequences of invoking Article 50.
Full autonomy. They wont give up any measure of that full autonomy in exchange for any trade configurations and the EU wont give up any trade configurations without demanding a measure of autonomy in exchange.
Teresa May and her hard Brexiteers are all about getting rid of the EU legislation regarding open borders immigration Human rights workers rights and Trade restrictions. That’s their Golden Egg. That’s all they want. They aint going to give a monkeys about trade costs single market access or the effects to the economy.
These people worship power and control over financial gain.
Christ look where we are now? Do you see any consideration being given to the economy by these people?
Anyone else notice that May hasn’t actually blocked a referendum yet? In fact the official line is that now she’s voiced her opinion they hope the expected vote next week will be dropped. Time to call her bluff.
Lots of ping pong going on shurley schome mishtake!
Anyhoo we’ve gone to a ‘wildcat vote’ suddenly now to an ‘illegal vote’… what will they call it tomorrow?
Hootsman.
link to archive.is
I’ve seen a lot of talk about an advisory referendum being the way forward but to me there are a whole range of things the FM and the SNP could do next and I think it will be more the constant build up of pressure on May that will ultimately break her. The following are some of the options
1. After the section 30 vote next week and then an official answer the SNP will use the local authority elections as a platform to confirm their mandate.
2. If that provides no change then a withdrawal of MPs from Westminster.
3. if still no change then a series of resignations forcing Westminster by-elections. The focus in my opinion will be on Westminster as it forces a response form the UK Government, ties up May’s resources and shows a contrast between Westminster parliament in chaos and Holyrood being in control.
4. If still no change then you would probably see a Holyrood election on a mandate of another referendum not UDI with the prime target being to unseat Ruth Davidson.
All of the above are actions that can be done to harass, cajole and embarrass May whilst weakening her in the eyes of the Brexiteers, the EU negotiators and further presenting to the Scottish Electorate the image of a right wing dictator denying Scotland’s will. Conversely May has very little options open to her and the pressure of brexit will cause her to react badly again.
Bbc scotchland promoting May
She can’t get around the fact that Westminster will take Scotland into wars against our wishes. Brussels won’t.
Bob Mack at 2:52 pm
You wrote: “Are you really Boris Johnson. ?
…. haha you got me at last!
You wrote “It is great to have someone like you on here posting insider knowledge on how Westminster is going to conclude a deal.”
… no Bob. Many here on Wings spend their time shouting about the lies, mistruths, and shenanigans of the press and politicians then, suddenly forget all of that mistrust and base a whole theory on the latest thing they read or heard! They talk about conspiracy and deception – and then take people at their word!
I watch, read and listen and then assume that all parties have a strategy and then try and work out what those strategies are and how they might play out. I read so many comments here where the basic assumption is that the tory are bunch of useless, brainless, hopeless idiots – followed, often immediately, by accusations of them being a dark, sinister, conniving, scheming, plotting bunch of heartless ambitionists only hell bent on achieving their goals.
Which is it? Do you really believe Ms May is just winging it? Do really believe Davies was talking to the Brexit committee – or might have been posturing to the EU?
You wrote “Unfortunately you should have a word with your Brexit lead Mr Davis, who openly admitted at the Brexit Committee meeting just this week that tariffs might well have to apply.”
What would you expect the lead negotiator to say? Would you expect to him to to tell the Brexit committee something different to the “No Deal is better than a Bad deal” thing? Really?
You wrote: “Perhaps you should take over as lead negotiator Eh”
Nah, but I could certainly do a better job than almost everyone on Wings thinks is possible.
Unfortunately, much as we all wish it was different, we will not know the outcome for a couple of years. However, as I have said before,, check out the deal with Canada, get rid of the tariffs, throw in an £8 Billion sweetener… and there you are, job done!
The mistake you are making is that you need/want the deal to be awful because you need/want it to help your cause. Because of those laudable and passionate desires, you are unable to think straight and you are making the biggest mistake of all – i.e. underestimating your opposition.
Hi watch the BBC reduce the coverage of the SNP conference by constant updates about May and others opposing independence.
During interviews on radio or tv we must adopt the right approach. Don’t be nice.
Sensible on the back shift, tonight?
I understood that the Brexit Divorce referendum was an advisory referendum and May (the PM without a mandate) took that as a green light to go full steam ahead over the cliff. Seems to me that advisory referenda have form in committing a government to enact the will of the people.
scotland is a colonized nation
every day we get bombarded 24/7 365 days days a year
with fake news and utter shite from all unionist
parties completly subserviant to w/m rule.
our democratic rights and sovereignty are being
quashed by the right wing xenophobic tory govt
including all off the msm as well.
all i can say is
dugdale.
rennie.
davidson.
mundell.
you lot will be remembered in an indepented scotland
for what you are fukcin Tractors with a capital T
Weird so the rules of democracy seem to have changed whereby we need a majority govt to pass laws according to some. Wonder if any laws were passed through Westminster between 2010 and 2015?
Can somebody tell me where the English parliament is?
We had a Yoon(well a few Yoons) on Stephen Jardine this morning moaning that the UK parliament has the power over us and to stop this referendum nonsense.
Now I know it’s been pointed out before but Stephen should have said that yes the UK parliament has the power over the devolved legislatures but where is England’s devolved legislature?
They never mention it as it would show that the ‘uk’ parliament is the defacto parliament of England and therefore is devolving English power to the devolved nations.
Union of equals my arse
It says something that the best place to watch the SNP Conference is on Facebook.
What a disgrace!
I enjoyed it. Well done Doug Daniel!
Haven’t been able to get the afternoon session, for some reason. I had to go out to deliver postal votes in envelopes and thought I could catch up.
Anybody help here! Thanks.
‘The mistake you are making is that you need/want the deal to….’
May cancelled triggering A50 this week having completely underestimated the opposition…dream on Davey boy…
‘I watch, read and listen and then assume that all parties have a strategy and then try and work out what those strategies are and how they might play out. I read so many comments here where the basic assumption is that the tory are bunch of useless, brainless, hopeless idiots – followed, often immediately, by accusations of them being a dark, sinister, conniving, scheming, plotting bunch of heartless ambitionists only hell bent on achieving their goals.
Which is it? Do you really believe Ms May is just winging it? Do really believe Davies was talking to the Brexit committee – or might have been posturing to the EU?’
There is no contradiction in those depictions of Tories Davey boy…Westminster is filled with the former who are merely lobby fodder directed by the latter to do their bidding.
As for May winging it…more accurate to state she’s crapping it. As for Davis? Pulhease…a patronising shit with the negotiating skills of a plum. He’ll be out quicker than ye can say ‘Tory arsehole’ once he’s in the big tent with the real negotiators…mark ma words Davis will not make it to the middle of negotiations. He has absolutely no diplomacy nor sensitivity…a bullish britnational wi that Tory arrogance shinning through will not be what is required at the big table.
laukat @ 17:12,
It’s Mexican standoff at the moment. Guns loaded and pointed, who or what will intervene to resolve it?
Ideally us, that’s what. Actively or passively. It all depends on “positioning”.
Nicola needs to get more of Scotland activated and behind her. Then anything is possible. Mayhem has to convince enough people that another referendum is “unnecessary” and “unwanted”. So that the demand for a referendum fizzles through lack of support.
Just like BT in 2014, the Tories have been doing a lot of focus-group planning, and the deadbeat result is “cereal woman” revisited. But it’s a far higher-risk strategy than last time. Too many broken promises could come home to roost.
If only we had clear civic support in place already, it would be so much easier. (Too many PBS, passive bum-sitters, regrettably.) But I hope and believe that Nicola has the potential to achieve it. It’s a slow burner, though, and requires careful handling, so we have to be patient and wait it out, keeping our powder dry.
Art.50 and Brexit will unlock everything, though, even if people don’t first. Then there will be hell to pay, and there will be no avoiding it. Not even the PBS among us will be able to avoid being confronted by that.
Searching for some video of the SNP Conference on the BBC site but all I can see is a 59 sec clip of Angus Robertson. Does anyone know where the videos are hidden?
Can anyone help? I’m interested in the Il Foglio piece supporting Scottish indy – big splash on front page but it is A behind a pay wall and B in Italian
Great to see some support from abroad but I’m frustrated I can’t access it.
link to mobile.twitter.com
Cheers in advance
watched some of the conference (bbc) Live-Stream only covered stuff outside the hall i dont suppose were allowed in ( boo the boys cover everything why not the main event ? ) Now is not the time to piss about with we cant because etc , someone needs to remove the blockage , and the boys need help not a bloody wall .
galamcennalath says:
17 March, 2017 at 4:34 pm
Tory strategy is to play for time. They hope …
Yes, I’d agree. But I’m not convinced it’s a constructive strategy or even a rewarding delay; I think May and her entourage know in Scotland they are holding a tiger by the tail, and don’t know what to do.
I haven’t seen May delivering anything as part of a cohesive strategy. Her illegal immigrant campaign was ham fisted, her ascendency to PM was uninspiring and her cabinet of Brexiteer clowns was toe curling. She supported remain, but sells out her principles to back the hardest Brexit, and follows her Brexit plan which she cannot even now articulate, because it might reveal her hand in negotiations. Her diplomatic fawning with Trump was clumsy, ill timed, and embarrassing, and her integration with European leaders was awkward and lead footed. Her “Trade Deals in Waiting” are a dodgy hotpotch of weapons to the Saudis and Turks, tea Jam and biscuits to Japan, eye watering nuclear deals with China, and re-heated TTIP deal with the US which puts the NHS into the hands of the highest bidder, and introduces deregulation as some bizarre deliverance for the common good. Scary.
I saw a very good quote, but neglected to remember who said it, but Theresa May is trying to play poker when everybody can see the cards she holds. We already know the Trump Administration know she has nothing to offer, and Shashi Tharoor, an Indian MP warns May’s “Empire 2.0 Will Go Down Like A Lead Balloon In India”.
She has tried to sound menacing towards the Russians, but it seems what the Americans know about her, the Russians know too. I seem to recall David Cameron being put in his place Putin not so long ago.
So I don’t know. There’s a thin line between patience and indecision, and Nicola Sturgeon seems to be treating May to a masterclass of patient manoeuvring, and by flashing up Theresa’s inaction regarding a separate deal for Scotland, Theresa has felt obliged to do “something” and has found yet again that her judgement is unsound.
It is interesting to compare what Theresa May has said and done since securing the top job, and then asking yourself what a thoroughbred International Statesman would have done differently. My guess is virtually everything. What she should have done is face down UKIP and the angry mob of Brexiteers, and found wriggle room to kick the Brexit referendum into touch long enough to fudge a recount. That might have ended her political career, but it might also have delivered the UK from evil. They do say the good die young.
Nicola Sturgeon will have her for breakfast, but that doesn’t calm the nerves. Theresa May in defeat or under pressure could make trouble for everybody, with her penchant for making very poor decisions. Sooner or later, countries have to settle their differences and get along. It seems Theresa would prefer to settle her differences the British way, – by acrimonious stand off.
” Voting YES risks failure; voting NO guarantees it “
© Christian Wright? @ChristainWright
Sums it all up perfectly!
Can I just run a scenario by everyone and see what you come up with.
The SNP except a commitment that allows all EU citizens a vote in any upcoming referendum in Scotland, even if we have already been pulled out by the Tories.
The figure I heard of the amount of EU voters in Scotland was around about 170,000.
When the SNP puts this proposition before the Scottish Parliament for them to vote on it, how does Labour respond?
Would they seriously consider voting to prevent EU Scots having a vote in the referendum?
This motion will be put before the SNP conference and will definitely be excepted by the party, so Labour will need to decide just how far down the path to darkness they are prepared to wander, on behalf of their Tory ‘betters’
@Sensibledave,
Come on Dave, let’s put our cards on the table. You must know the Tories expected to win the EU referendum. When it became obvious it was lost ,Tory Party HQ had a decision to make. To resist the will of their English electorate would mean two things. Further recrimination within the party itself and quite possibly mass defections to UKIP at the next election as a protest vote.
What is evident is that absolutely no planning had been given to the possibility of exiting the UK. You may think that is adequate governance, but to me it is unacceptable.
Now May is trying to demonstrate that she can out kip UKIP, to keep voters on board whilst the Civil Service try to clean up the mess.
That is demonstrably bad governance Dave, no matter how you look at it.
If you try to defend the people who are responsible for this ,then I question your clarity of thought.
@ Phil Robertson
Poor wee Phil ,just another Yoon Loon desperate to avoid another referendum,why?
K***n H***e is a total cant.
link to twitter.com
T.May is throwing words out trying to belittle the SNP approach
We have a mandate and an expectation to have a referendum
It is in black and white and everything else is just a distraction
The referendum should be run exactly the same way as 2014 so sorting that out should take no time at all
Please stop talking about our MPs walking out of Westminster in a huff It will be seen as “toys out of the pram” also those MPs can do more to pressure May from inside than they could from outside
Remember the good old days when you could rely on Johann “Stairheid” Lamont to fly back from Benidorm with a giant Toblerone looking pleased with herself that she made an international transaction at Schiphol airport still speaking Weegie?
And upon arrival, demand, to a huge Daily Record fanfare, “a debate an’ ‘at, even tho yoos yins urr sumfin fer nuthin wasters.”
At least that woman was going places.
Kezia “Dizzy” Dugdale on the other hand, just spins in her own vortex of North British Branch Office gibberish.
So the focus of the BBC on the conference was the lady withe wee beenie two flags on her heid.
Hint they do not do that because you are cute but because you will generate derision.
Just sayin! I’ll get ma coat.
The conference.
I was using the link here for live coverage
Thanks to Arbroath1320 was this.
link to periscope.tv
However video of the Conference: Here. 2hrs 30mins
The SNP conference (morning ) The afternoon isn’t there (yet)
link to facebook.com
Could someone remind Mrs May that she has ONE MP in Scotland and his jaiket is on an increasingly shoogly peg.
So what happens at the next GE and there are NO Tory MPs from Scotland only SNP ones ? Is that a declaration of Independence?
Why does her Maj have to sign anything when it comes to our referendum?
Its Friday its past crackerjack time,boooooo
Dugdale is clueless.
Harrison is a nobody.
Murdo”the queens fart” is that crusty ring you get in a toilet when it hasn’t been flushed for a week.
Wullie “Mr Gorgeous in his own mind”?? Rennie… still can’t work out what his ability or use is.
Indy Ref 2 YES PLEASE.
Westminster GTF, you have been found out.
Thanks Call me dave!
The National was poor today in its presentation of the main news, allowing centre stage to Davidson and Mundell.
Delaying ScotRef until after Brexit is complete is only fair according to May and her two Scottish desk clerks. May is pretending that she doesn’t know that a Scottish Independence Referendum scheduled BEFORE the end of Brexit negotiations, will leave May unable to bargain with Scotland’s assets, AND, will enable 180,000 EU nationals to vote in the Referendum. You’d think the National would report this CRUCIAL aspect, but no, instead it is omitted completely.
Independence paper. Fake Independence paper on today’s performance.
Derek is getting busy:
link to derekbateman.scot
lol oor Dave has flipped flopped more times than a flip floppy thing,hows the liberal organic bean muncher act going Dave?
Please dont get him over exited or he poops all over the carpet.
Wow, C4 news there, making lovely Aberdeen look like a right miserable shit hole this evening, with C4 gimp jumping in every time Sturgeon tries to say anything.
UKOK hacks are such a bunch of lovely chappies.
@manandboy 7:06pm
I don’t know, manandboy, today we had the Rev’s article, of course, and Gordon MacIntyre-Kempe’s piece which made an excellent point on the timing of brexit:
“SO Theresa May has decided to attempt to block a democratically mandated Scottish referendum being held before the UK leaves the EU. Her logic seems to be that voters won’t know the details of the Brexit deal by then. However, the PM’s thinking is hugely flawed as the two year timescale between a March 31 triggering of Article 50 also includes time for the remaining EU nations to review and ratify the deal though their own parliaments and that may take months. So in effect if the deal is not done by the end of 2018 then no deal will be ratified before Brexit is automatically triggered, and that is the absolute worst case scenario for the Scottish people and for our economy.”
manandboy – they should report it but a decent letter about that aspect would very likely get published.
LOL check the look on Merkels face standing next to Trump at a news conference, C4 news. Hilarious.
Listening to the ever shrill radio announcers and C4 hatchet mob stating that Scotland cannot have a consultative referendum and even if we did say YES2 it could be ignored by Westminster
London has spoken. Scots and Irish get in your pits.
Remind me-
wasn’t the BREXIT referendum advisory and not compulsory?
How did that go?
manandboy
I’m intent to agree with that. I’m very suspicious of the Nationals Indy credentials more because of what they don’t report than what they do.
They keep avoiding crucial arguments and mostly publish what is nothing more than pro Indy platitudes or meaningless articles and opinionated pieces.
They also published a definitive account of Teresa May STATING she would block an Indyref when up to now she hasn’t categorically stated anything and I doubt she will until the Scottish Government goes through the constitutional process of actually getting the vote through Parliament.
There is so much meaty lies and bullshit out there for the National to challenge openly and easily yet they don’t.
I think its just red herring in order to gain subscription income from pro Indy supporters to make up for the lost subscriptions of the Herald.
O/T
The best part of this is Merkel looking at the audience like: “Can you believe this schmuck?”
wee video here
link to twitter.com
link to politico.com
Not having an indy ref before Brexit would leave Scotland exposed and utterly defenseless against Tory rUle.
Sitting outside the EU with no human rights and no access to the EU courts would be suicidal.
Scotland must get out because there won’t be a scoutland otherwise.
With regard the Greens million signatures and Murdo Fraser. There was over a million signatures for independence parties at the 2016 election. We can mean anyonre not just Greens.
Report on France24 about Scotref. Voxpop in Ullapool, Inverness, fishermen, all Yes! Whisky man Yes. Edinburgh, 2 financial peeps No. Shona Robison interviewed, good. Jenny Marra says Scotland rubbish, EU wont want it. France24 man says Scotland deficit, wont meet convergence criteria but economy can grow fast!
Seemed fair, although I think we will find our ‘deficit’ might not be that big when we get control of the book-keeping!
It’s a bit quieter now so here’s Murdo trying to explain what a majority is to Neil this morning. He’s not having it.
You think Dugdale has problems. 🙂
link to youtube.com
At least the only BBC video of the SNP conference – and it is only 54 secs long – shows the amazing crowd in attendance. Worth it for that alone.
But can the BBC really be described as a public service broadcaster? It has virtually no coverage of the Conference of the Scottish Government’s ruling party. Imagine if the only video of the British Conservative conference was a short 54 sec clip.
link to bbc.co.uk
Place heavy objects out of reach
Gordon bloody Brown to intervene again.
link to archive.is
You could always ask a French poodle to translate.
Woof woof 😉
She exists in a parallel media universe. Irrelevant almost, in this one.
@call me Dave
Haha, good one of Brillo and Turdo. What a klutz, just as ignorant on TV, as he is on Twitter.
This ‘not now’ garbage can’t hold, or as Nic prefers ‘unsustainable’. Treeza will be raging this weekend at what Ruthie has sold her.
Time is on our side, not theirs, because the shit show for Tories never abates, just gets more outrageous, like Gideon today, or increases in volume, like Norn Irn.
Talking of shitshow, watched Merkel and Trump. Wow, highly tense and embarrassing. Trump wouldn’t shake her hand for the cameras, blamed the wiretap thing on someone else, and just generally acted like a brat.
Big difference from Treeza crawling after him, and holding his wotsit.
Merkel really took a couple of pops at him.
But can the BBC really be described as a public service broadcaster?
C4 is also an English public broadcaster, with ads, but they were even creepier UKOK propaganda wise tonight. Its worth a watch, for students and connoisseurs of London’s hardcore attack propaganda, they even split screened May coming up to the podium somewhere in Wales today, alongside Sturgeon doing the same in Aberdeen, loud cheering from the audience but for who, both ofcourse, it looked like. Really creepy sleazy characters in UK media today.
For anyone who didn’t see QT
“It’s in England’s interests that the union remains”
link to twitter.com
Thanks guys for the input on the National. Scotland’s independence can’t wait for the National to get its act together. Its had long enough. Sure, it’s great to read our Indy favourites, but the National team really need to find another gear, otherwise it will continue to be off the pace. Keep up or give up, National.
And where’s the McCrone Report. Publish that and we’ll start afresh.
Perhaps she agrees with many of us, that we will need proper International Observation to prevent fraud this time.
I can help her out: link to you.38degrees.org.uk
For once I have sympathy with Kezia. Almost the exact same thing happened to me just yesterday. The cat walked across the computer keyboard and posted a bunch of random characters on Facebook.
@Phil Robertson says: 17 March, 2017 at 4:27 pm:
“As I have already pointed out, votes less than 50% are not a majority, never mind “by far”. You are, not for the first time, wrong.”
I’m not about to attempt to continue to argue with an such an obvious idiot. To do so would only bring me down to your low level of idiocy, Phil.
Now I will point out something that is so very obvious to even primary school children before ignoring you. If you wish to imagine you have won this daft argument them that is fine by me.
The 50% rule for gaining a majority only applies if there are only two parties being compared with each other. Unless there is a coalition of opposition parties.
Otherwise the rule is that the party with the most seats has a majority. I will also point out that there are no formal coalitions in Holyrood at present.
In Holyrood there are the SNP 63; Tory 31; Labour 23; Greens 6; and the LibDems 5. The Presiding Officer has no party affiliations.
Thus the SNP have a majority over the Tories of 32 seats. That is a very big majority. Which is why the SNP form the Scottish Government.
As usual, Phil, you expose your total ignorance but I had though you would at least have understood such basic mathematics. As I say, if you wish to believe you have won the argument then carry on believing it, It is of no consequence in the grand scheme of things.
“It’s in England’s interests that the Union remains” says Jacob Rees Mogg on QT. Thanks Nana.
…. and nobody else’s.
Without the Union, there is virtually no point in the Westminster government entering talks with the EU. Take Scotland’s assets out of English hands and Brexit is all but pointless.
Dan Huil says:
17 March, 2017 at 7:09 pm
Derek is getting busy:
link to derekbateman.scot
Good article by Derek Bateman. But why does he use surnames for May, McConnel, Blair, Foulks et al….but calls Dugdale “Kezia”? She isn’t some friendly, cuddly pal – why not treat her like the rest?
I present to the EU Commission, the British Prime Minister, the Rt.Hon. Theresa Vague, MP.
Best of luck.
Croompenstein 4.56pm. That must be the silent ‘postal ‘majority.
Westminster Tories and the Unionists in Scotland have seen and felt the SNP Tsunami in the elections and they hope that it is not going to be repeated or at least it is going to be abated somewhat enough to dislodge the number of MSPs that have Independence agendas in the next one.
That is their only hope and that is their last card in the game to eek out their hold until after Brexit and onto the next general elections, it’s a plan.
The plan also includes the possibility of all those who will be effected by the new rules for immigration and could be sent out of the UK. These folk living in Scotland now may be disenfranchised in a Scottish referendum. About 200,000 of them.
It’s not impossible for the SNP and the Greens to win big again but it’s a big ask to repeat that feat.
As was asked before, and also taking into account what Douglas Daniel was saying in his conference speech about Holyrood being able to lay out rules for voting, how would these voters stand if
The SG now gave them a guarantee that they would be able to vote for example, just after Brexit and with a pending Scottish referendum coming along immediately afterwards?
PS:
Wos twitter: Showing haggis crisps, for younger eaters, these are not new as I remember having a local crisp maker on the border of Cowdenbeath and Hill of Beath making them in the 60s.
Today Mackies also do a range of Haggis crisps…
Haggis and Black pepper.
Haggis and whisky
They weren’t tasty then and not now either, IMO 🙂
Is twitter broke or is it just me?
O/T in a way – is anyone else able to see the Supporters map on the SNP Scotref fundraiser? I enjoyed studying it the other day when a newspaper printed it but I can’t get to see it on the SNP site.
@Orri says: 17 March, 2017 at 5:02 pm:
“Anyone else notice that May hasn’t actually blocked a referendum yet?”
And she will not do so for she has no legal right to do so and she knows that if she alienates just a few more percentage of Scots voters the matter will go to the the International courts and she will lose.
Just, for example, go and read the European Court of Human Rights Acts. There are wingers who regularly bost extracts here on Wings.
What Westminster has done to the Treaty of Union is against all civilised laws on human rights. There is actually no legal basis for any of it.
The mere fact that England has no elected parliament and Westminster operates EVEL is proof enough. All it would take is for enough Scots to take the hump at the Union and the SG could take the matter to The International courts including the United Nations and they would win.
Westminster has no legal sovereignty over Scotland and all documentary evidence proves it.
The Treaty of Union that formed the United Kingdom is very precise and unambiguous. It created a bipartite union of two equally sovereign Kingdoms but Westminster has first assumed sovereignty and when it got away with that it made itself the de facto Parliament of England and is now treating its former equal partner kingdom as a dominion of the country of England,
May and the Tory government are skating on very thin ice at the moment and it will only take a few percentage rise in indy voters to end the UK forever.
Jings:
I think I nearly just got my question answered on Wos Twitter just now. But not fully.
Nana @ 20:21,
Oh blue blistering barnacles!
The heavy crypt door creaks open and…
…El Gordo emerges once more and offers us…
…a Third Way.
Holy SonOfVow! The GoveGambit is revived as well. He is going to assure us of all these wonderful powers we’ll oh-so-definitely get direct from Brussels – honest, gov, know wot I mean, nudge, nudge, wink, wink – if only we can truly believe in him again.
=splutter=
Poor Jonathan Freedland. Really clutching at straws down in old Brexittania now.
October 18th: A50 settled for those not twittering:
twitter.com/DavidLivey/status/842788880898281473
O/T Can everyone else see the Supporters Map on the SNP Scotref fundraiser? I can’t get it to work which is a pity as I enjoyed seeing where the support in England was coming from when the map was shown by a newspaper the other day.
@Robert J. Sutherland
With a little bit of digging, I found where the crypt is located
link to adamsmithfestivalofideas.com
Pick me! Pick me! I speak Kezich!
What Kezia is trying to say is that she agrees with everything Truth Davidson says, and that we need to have a referendum to determine if we want a referendum.
There! Simples!
@call me dave
link to twitter.com
Think I get it – @scottishlabour can’t be stitched up. Hmmm
@Nana
Brexit known by October 2018.
November sounds fine for ScotRef then. 🙂
Kesia’s picture on Twitter; is she’s talking to one of the singing slugs from Flushed Away?
Conference buzzing. Brilliant speeches. Lovely people. Peter Murrell arranging the chairs so everyone got a seat. Overflowing. Thanks to all who’s attending. Thanks to all the interest.
YES campaign gearing up.
No audience showing of the May Tory meeting. How many were there. How many dwindling Tories in Wales? Not a lot of Tories in the valleys. After Thatcher. Wales has the most investment from the EU. The least migrants in the UK and voted Brexit. Does benefit from investment in London. People can commute to London. Live in Wales.
Kesia’s picture on Twitter; is she talking to one of the singing slugs from Flushed Away?
Autumn 2018 looks good for the 2ndIndy Ref. On past performance May will be gone by then. Poison chalice.
Remember when Labour was being slagged off by the leadership for their poor performance in Scotland. Then along came Corbyn.
My point is that if the SNP were proposing the mythical referendum tomorrow then May would be correct. They are taking the view that nothing has been said about a referendum in 18 to 24 months time when, unless they’re incredibly incompetent, the details of the Brexit deal will be known and Scotland will know what it’s contribution will be and how it will benefit.
What May really wants to say is that now is not the time to even talk about independence. Unfortunately the cat’s out of the bag. The EU know sooner or later there’s going to be a reckoning. It’s far too late for Scotland to STFU and eat it’s breakfast.
Even the we hope they’ll drop the vote thing is couched in terms of Westminster/May having made its view known. Not that they will block it.
As a fun aside. Whilst the petition to allow another referendum is gaining ground slowly the one with the tortured English opposing it is well past the stage where it might be up for debate. So things may very well be taken out of the Government’s hands and into Westminster’s? as a whole.
Stoker,
“Salmond, Sturgeon and Campbell are 3 people who I have the greatest respect for and am one of their biggest supporters but I disagree with all 3 of them when it comes to their similar positions on not wasting our time attacking the BBC.”
The only way to effectively attack the BBC, Scotland’s enemy number one, is to stop paying the propaganda tax.
Anyone ready to lead an anti-poll tax like anti-propaganda tax campaign?
O/T A few links as it’s fairly quiet
link to thecanary.co
Brexit unleashed an English nationalism that has damaged the union with Scotland for good
link to archive.is
link to politicshome.com
No grasp of devolution, no announcements – Theresa May’s Wales Tory Party speech
link to archive.is
Labour releases dossier on SNP decade of division.
No doubt tomorrow Labour to release a dossier: Lab & Tory, a decade of unity.
Rob James,
“Nice to see Stu in the National today. What’s your take on that Rock? Rock? Anybody seen Rock?”
Finally, after more than 2 years, I have shamed The National into publishing an article by the Rev. Stuart Campbell:
Rock (2days ago),
“It is not a question of the Rev. writing for The National.
It is a question of the “independence supporting” The National publishing the Rev.’s excellent articles as front page headline news.
The National claims to be short of staff and resources.
I am sure the Rev. wouldn’t demand exorbitant fees for The National to publish his articles.”
Mark my words: I don’t expect it to last long.
This dossier apparently is full of dodgy facts. Labour and dodgy dossiers, surely they have never done this before!
@sarah
The Supporters Map shows that money is not just coming from Scotland and England.
I stitched a couple of screenshots together:
British Isles link to postimg.org
World link to postimg.org
There’s bits and pieces from all over Europe as well. Gibraltar and Croatia in particular stand out.
manandboy,
“The National was poor today in its presentation of the main news, allowing centre stage to Davidson and Mundell.”
“Independence paper. Fake Independence paper on today’s performance.”
That is two of us then.
Mike,
“manandboy
I’m intent to agree with that. I’m very suspicious of the Nationals Indy credentials more because of what they don’t report than what they do.
They keep avoiding crucial arguments and mostly publish what is nothing more than pro Indy platitudes or meaningless articles and opinionated pieces.”
Three of us then.
@Liam – thank you very much for the maps. It’s great to see worldwide support, isn’t it. Those 40 million dispersed Scots still care!
Madame Brexit quote at Tory conference today.
“The fact that more Scottish voters backed Scotland staying in the UK in 2014, than supported the UK staying in the EU in 2016”
I do hope she realised more Scottish voters backed leaving the UK than the EU, by 60%.
Economist Dr Craig Dalzell in conversation with Derek Bateman
link to newsnet.scot
Fuming.
So, just watched gogglebox on 4 and they discussed Indyref2 as the last sequence to be shown. Never watching again.
To be told by a failed UKIP candidate and his wife that someone should tell our first minister that we should have a referendum only once in a generation? Another couple agreeing with May’ Very biased opinions being shown. Is this representative?….perhaps in some parts of the (tory) south it is?
This is the sort of crap that really, really pisses me off. Those from ‘dan saff’ who have no idea what’s happening up here but appear to feel they do. It’s that ‘get back in your box, you Scotch’ rhetoric…’know your place, jocks’. Such ignorance.
Deep breaths.
@Frann Leach says: 17 March, 2017 at 8:41 pm:
“I can help her out: link to you.38degrees.org.uk
Thanks for that link Frann. Keep up the good work.
@shiregirl
Don’t fume, it is revealing. I like to see the ignorance on display. I think they actually believe that Scotland is just an region, but with Kilts & Mel Gibson (I think this was a wind up though).
I agree with Shiregirl9
Stoker
Hopefully see you next week outside the Scot Beeb HQ Plantation Quay. First game of the Indy season Stoker.
Everybody is welcome.
You don’t have to be a Loony, But it helps.
jfngw says:
17 March, 2017 at 10:26 pm
It’s dire. I shouldn’t get wound up but I do!
Got in laws arriving tomorrow from Essex. Dear god how I will hold my tongue this weekend and stay sane I don’t know.
Half tempted to change my name to bonnie morag and dress me and the kids like we were in brigadoon. I think that’s what they expect when they come up to see us in ‘Scotchland’.
Hi Aikenheed at 11:17 am.
You typed,
“It’s a pity we can no longer call on Professor Stanley Unwind oh folloks deep joy none”
Deep cappiedoffs for the menshode of Sir Stanley! Perchange, this may remail you of the great mangler of the Engly twenty fido?
link to sites.google.com
Theresa May “This precious,precious Union”
Scotland is the jewel in the crown.
Thank you Scotland for bailing us out for the last 300 years and since 1975 you have been a diamond. Now shut the fuck up!
Brian Doonethon 10.45
As I pointed out at 11.20am, Dugdalese can only be explained by listening to her inspiration in full political flow.
link to youtube.com
@Shiregirl – you are not alone! I am off to Kent next week to visit family and am already running through ripostes to the inevitable comments.
And several of my English friends and neighbours who have come here because they love Scotland, all say the same. They dread visiting England and find family and friends’ comments really upsetting.
I try to blame their views on the media – if you’re fed lies for decades, and have no impetus to do your own research, then how can you know the truth? But it’s not a very pleasant experience.
here’s the difference….
Nicola sturgeon becomes editor of The National…she’s now Goebbels.
George osbourne becomes editor of eveng standard…..that’s OK, fourth story in news…no laws broken……move along now.
Vow2 The Clunkin Fist on Steroids.
Can’t do links on this thing but Stu has a link on twitter to article.
Our favourite caricature of a failed politician making a speech in Kirkcaldy this weekend.
He’s gonna offer us some barrie stuff by the way.
@sarah @Shiregirl
My lot are Brummies, it’s not easy
This is an easy one, she typed an “F” instead of an “A”. What she clearly meant was:
“But if we MUST have a referendum it can’t be stitched up by the AM or PM”
She’s not a morning or afternoon kind of person.
Onywey! To get back on topic.
Dugdalese is pretty much the same as Dalekese but with a Westminster accent.
Instead of, “Exterminate! Exterminate!”, It gans, “Exceramate! Excremate!”, birls roon aboot twa/three times gans, “Disna commute! Disna commute! then birls twa/three times mair an explodes.
You can chose your friends you can’t chose your relatives. A majority in the rest of the UK don’t support the Tories. They started it.
Trump’s migrant grandfather was not allowed back into Germany. They refused him entry. No room back in.
Graeme Doig
Hello there Graeme.
O/T
Any one know anything about a group called ‘Do not break our unity’
Seen it on Facebook.
@Shiregirl (10.43) –
Ha!
Did we not have this conversation approx a year ago?
Same in-laws?
Hmmmm…
You know what? There’s an awfy virulent bug been going about. My wife had it, she passed it to my son, who then passed it to me. (One of those 24-hr blowing-it-out-both-ends affairs. Nasty!)
I hereby pass it to you – the incubation period appears to be highly unpredictable, so, as and when it happens to ‘strike’, you can retire to your sick-bed and let us all know from under the covers.
In any event, good luck!
Flumbidy, bumbidy, dumbidy dum.
SNP baaaaad.
Planet Dugdale.
Simples.
In reply to Tam jardine who asked about Il Foglio’s (the sheet of paper’s) support for Scottish Independence
Il Foglio’s the baby of political opportunist and pundit Giuliano Ferrara. It’s a centre-right newsletter, rather than national paper, behind a paywall as you found out.
It has existed for about 17 years, officially sells about 8,000 copies ( we don’t know how many are given away free,it’s certainly not asked for or often seen in the newsagents).
It is heavily subsidized by the Italian state (like many Italian newspapers), One of its original share-holders was Mr Berlusconi’s ex-wife,
Its business set-up was transformed into a co-operative in 2001 so as to continue getting its subsidy when the italian law changed.
With regards to Scottish Independence it wrote
The happy independence movement in scotland is less peripheral to Europe than it appears,contrasts with bitter secession movements and expresses true European patriotism
“Meno periferico di quanto sembri, l’indipendentismo felice degli scozzesi in conflitto con i secessionismi amari è un vero patriottismo europeo”
The rest is behind the paywall which I can’t access.
Hello there Caz. Good to see you back bud.
I’m still just hovering about waiting for the fight 😉
Graeme
“I’m still just hovering about waiting for the fight”
LOL
Keep calm and think of Indy. hopefully see you next week or on the 3rd June.
Short video Treeza didn’t want you to see about how important it was to remain in the EU:
link to twitter.com
Do all the Brexiters run bed and breakfasts, and they must be good people
They all want to defend their “boarders”
Treeza with her “Vote Remain” team.
link to news.sky.com
Gordon Brown will propose a “third option” of giving Scotland vast new powers in exchange for remaining in the UK
I shit you not.
caz – It is damning stuff isn’t it –
I just posted about Gordon Brown’s intervention speech tomorrow, but it disappeared. Sky news. They’re sending the Broon in.
I said on O/T about Brown, I’ll add in T.May and the rest.
It would make some people wonder what their punishment would be for disobeying orders.
And maybe just wonder who is giving out the orders!
Peace Always
Broontervention vs Sturgeon speech?
Is that what’s in the pipeline?
Dare they make it that fucking obvious?
Eh is that the referendum nearly over,why do i see the Broon and who let him out the cage.
Were they bringing him out the cage and he escaped into the daily retard to conjure up one of his superdevomaxfedaralistic vows before it was time and they could stop him?
Seems a bit daft to me even the idea they want a third option since it is more likely to split the no vote leaving yes the winner,well we did get 45% on the yes vote with devomax sneaked on at the last minute so would probably keep that and it would be the 55% that would be split.
lol i expect the tories to be screaming no devomax choice next.
Crash Gordons Premature Intervention aka “The Third Way”…….
British Labour in Scotland have 3 Options:
1. Support an Independent Scotland and possibly survive
2. Don’t Support an Independent Scotland, wither and die
3. Bottle of whisky, a loaded revolver and do the honourable thing
The Clunking fist is right when he advocates the 3rd Way for the Blairite BLiS.
Kezia Dug is Phil Robertson because neither makes any sense at all.
It’ll be the Adam Smith Hall he is in I am guessing, “Festival of Ideas” is what’s on there at the moment. I wonder which Theresa May came up with this bright idea. Still shaking me head. Don’t get me wrong, this is a positive sign – they are shiting it. Also I feel that this will actually make full independence look a LOT more attractive to a LOT more people.
My best guess – they know that May has blown it with her Thatcher routine and this is the attempt not to have to have a referendum while the shit is hitting the fan a few months down the line. Stand firm.
Ah i see the old team have ganged up and are going to give us one of their infamous vows.
I find it funny they think he has any kind of ability to deliver on anything he says,he could not even do that when he was PM.
Or has he just escaped and broken into the Daily Record?
strange i thought that first post had not gone through.
Actually Robert, constitutional matters are outside the ECHR remit.
That does not mean there will not be European condemnation if Westminster refuses to agree to a referendum, I think there will be on an ad hoc basis, although obviously not from Spain.
And that may well be enough. Especially in a Brexit negotiation scenario to force the issue.
But failing that the matter would have to be referred to the UN and/or its judicial body the ICJ.
Gordon Bown? Already?
Now THAT is fear.
Though i lay my heart to rest
I know wee Nic
She knows whats best
in times ahead
we’ll wonder why
its us or them
but NO they’ll cry
just for once
My Country PLEASE,
stop saying NO
get of your knees.
and as yersel ye try tae
rest
Rejoice
Rejoice
Wee Nic knows best.
thats ma two bob. lol
Okay, so that’s twice now that Dotun Adebayo, R5 presenter, has used ‘there’s a moose loose aboot this hoose’ to trail whatever feature he has lined-up for later broadcast.
We wait to hear what relevance that ‘soundbite’ has to the topic, as and when it arises.
Given the latest shenanigans from our good friends at No 10 – there should be a stipulation right now, that they are not to be trusted within a mile of the boxes this time.
Invite the EU in to make sure it is all above board, and whatever “vow” like shit Gordon coughs up tomorrow should be the 2nd choice in a binary referendum. No “take it or leave it” offers. This is an equal union after all.
Whatever he offers – It ain’t going to be single market access, and already the EU seems to be making some very favourable noises toward Scottish membership continuing.
Really early on in the game for them to be this scared. Time to go.
Sensibledave
What can England trade with the EU that they haven’t already got?
Just as a wee time-check here –
What R5Live has just broadcast, neatly packaged, re SNP conference, was utterly shameful.
Adebayo – hang yer head man, seriously…
(He then effortlessly segues into breathless tribute to Derek Walcott.)
From what Sturgeon actually said on Monday:
“Our plan means people will have the ability to choose our own future at a time when the terms of Brexit are known, but before it’s too late to decide our own path.”
Nothing about “autumn 2018 to spring 2019”.
Something to keep in mind with the current stories about what Sturgeon yesterday. There could be an agreed extension, a transition period after for the UK, or via the UK Brexit negotiators, specifically for Scotland.
It’s the events matter, not the actual dates, hence the “compromise” line.
Must admit I got caught out till I’d had a cup of tea.
@Big Phil
Surely worth at least half a crown!
Just to end the night on a happy note, I see that The Telegraph is quoting a poll that I’ve really been wanting to see:
link to archive.is
Seems that 2/3 of “British” voters would happily dump Scotland rather than give up on their precioussss Brexit. (Presumably the figure would be even higher if it were English+Welsh voters only.)
I’d happily give them the opportunity. Wouldn’t you?! =grin=
(How about you, Mrs May…?)
Gordon Brown:
A man so popular in Scotland that he can only make his interventions and pronouncements in private audiences behind closed doors full of media and old age pigeon fanciers
A man so popular he can’t walk the streets with his messages of Federalism in fear of being told where he can take it, or shove it
A man so popular the Daily Record has to interview him in private
A man so popular TV studios have to sneak him in unseen
A man so popular he needs security in what he laughingly claims to be his own country
Nicola Sturgeon:
A woman so unpopular she stands alone in the middle of throngs of people
A woman so unpopular kids run up to her in the street
A woman so unpopular she has sat on the edge of a pavement for a gab with local women with their prams and babies
A woman so unpopular the BBC keep her off the telly as much as they possibly can
I’m open to Gordon Brown trying to intervene at my door, I’ll even invite him in then kick his Arse all over my living room
Nicola Sturgeon would get a biscuit wae her tea/coffee (I’d even get in good biscuits coz she’s so unpopular
Ian Brotherhood @ 1.51
I heard this ignorant, ill informed and patronising article too. I was raging and tried to fire off a text to the station complaining, but after over a dozen goes with a full signal, I had to give up.
The thought crossed my mind that maybe GCHQ had put a blocker up for the ebc because they knew that they would be inundated with irate Scots complaining
@Robert J.Sutherland
You can almost hear the voice of Christopher Lees Sauron coming out of the Telegraph rousing the English Orcs to battle
It’s what good “journalism’s” all about eh
Let’s forget all about Jo Cox that was last week
English violence good, Scottish democracy Baad
Mental cases, thank God there’s not a sporting occasion coming up they’ll hate us almost as much as they hate the Germans that they still want to do business with
I’d like to see a wildlife documentary on the near extinct Labour Voter in Scotlsnd. A night-time shoot with infra-red cameras, maybe using a copy of the Record’s Vow nailed to a pine tree as bait. Admittedly, the more common wilcat might wander into shot and ruin the filming, but you have to take risks.
Dr Jim says:
“Mental cases, thank God there’s not a sporting occasion coming up they’ll hate us almost as much as they hate the Germans that they still want to do business with”
Hate is a two bladed knife with the biggest blade entering the heart of those who hate, never reaching the hearts of the Hated.
“Us and Them” Piano Cover
link to youtube.com
Peace Always
Goodnight, All
link to youtube.com
Peace Always
@ yesindyref2 . thats US the noo mate. lol
@ Smallaxe . you’re just magic. Seriously , wish everyone had your attitude to life. PEACE ALWAYS.
Meanwhile…
George Galloway, mind ae him? Aye, ye know, *that* George Galloway. Well, here he is being quoted by RT:
“While Sturgeon has pledged to hold another referendum, former Respect MP and host of RT’s Sputnik program George Galloway has cast doubt on Scotland’s chances of becoming a member of the EU once independent, claiming the country is “far from being in love with the EU in the way the SNP like to think.”
Speaking on RT UK, Galloway shrugged off the idea that those who voted to stay in the EU will automatically swing the vote for independence.
“Many of the people who voted for the EU, are against independence and vice versa, including very big figures in the SNP.”
The referendum would be the second after one in 2014, which saw a majority wanting to stay in the UK.
“The SNP will fall short of what they got in 2014. In other words, the margin will be more than 45-55, which is why I am not entirely sure that this referendum will go ahead at any point.””
That last paragraph is just batshit mental.
Dearie, dearie me. A strange, strange man – at least politically – is George Galloway, very strange indeed.
Yoondom and their empire must be bricking it big time to get the clunking fist out of retirement.
The private polls must signal the end of empire is coming.
They must think we are a bunch of fannys!
OT – defence
Interesting article from Dec 2016 – a lot of comments and it’s them that are interesting as much as the article, particuallry the informed ones as usual ratther than the knee-jerks.
link to ukdefencejournal.org.uk
‘The reappearance of the previously-thought-of-as-finally-becoming-extinct GorBrosaurus has amazed paleontologists worldwide after an actual living specimen was spotted in darkest Scotland…’
Gord almighty! Seeing this Yoonloon re-enter stage left to, supposedly, reignite the Better Together Federalism Vow cause is like suffering? from a really bad acid trip flashback. The horror! The horror!
From what Nicola actually said on Monday:
‘These considerations lead me to the conclusion that if Scotland is to have a real choice – when the terms of Brexit are known, but before it is too late to choose our own course – then that choice should be offered between the autumn of next year, 2018, and the spring of 2019.’
She specifically cites ‘between the autumn of next year, 2018 and the spring of 2019 in her speech on Monday.
Why rewrite history?
Lets lay this Treeza nonsense to bed.
The Scottish people are sovereign.
We can go through the diplomatic niceties of asking for a section 30 order which has always been to cut off challenges to legality but which is not required.
If Treeza returns the envelope unopened then we proceed with referendum on our timetable and put in motion a request for a confirmation from perhaps an international court ie the Hague or something similar which will lay to rest for good that we cannot have our rights to self determination removed.
Lets ask the Donald if England had said we don’t care what you think USA, now is not the time and only we will decide when if ever you can choose to be independent from England. Its just such blatant nonsense and we all know that.
Sure the tories/Lab/libs can say that there’s no polling evidence (which there is) that we want to vote for self determination/our right to remove ourselves from the union but frankly our democratically elected parliament makes that decision not ipsos mori, so bring it on Treeza, anytime you want it love
Blair and Brown should be in jail for breaking International Laws causing illegal wars and the worst migration crisis in Europe and wasting £Trns of public money destabilising the world economy. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Most of the Westminster unionists are a corrupt public disgrace. Causing starvation, hardship and death for vulnerable people. The world over. A complete and utter disgrace. All to line their own greedy pockets. Despicable people. Completely corrupt without and idea of morality.
Get rid of fake SKy. There are plenty of other alternatives. Do not pay to be patronised and lied to. Hit them were it counts, Their tax evaded profits. Cheats on steroids. Murdoch should be in jail for bribing public officials and corrupt greedy politicians. All in it together.
Rock on Tommy. Tommy Sheridan won again. One of the best politicians ever. The YES campaign is getting geared up again. Come on Tommy.
Ian Brotherhood says @ 2341:
A good plan!And yes, same inlaws. Love them dearly but they have been privy to too much MSM and read the Daily Mail – like @Sarah said.
It’s sad.Husband is English but wishes to be know as Scottish now. Very much Indy supporting.
Theresa May on “This precious, precious Union” ironically delivered to an audience/flock of Welsh Tories/sheep, a nation which was battered into submission & forced to sign on the dotted line! Mordor eh?
@ Smallaxe, thanx for Pink Floyd my friend.
Oh dear God, I see that Broon has risen from the crypt. Mair shite from a man with no power, nobody listens too, nothing to offer but mair lies.
Gordon GTF, big time, and gies peace, ya useless piece o’ hot air.
Rock has “shamed the National” now there’s a thing, bit early yet for the cuckoo?
Brown
yer a bawbag now f/off
Lol Liz Rannoch that was exactly what I was going to say
“d#[ir;k pseh2 si :U BFFIU”
Of course she omitted the finer points on the 40% meat and dairy eu tariff as spelled out by the Brexit secretary David Davis.
Meant to add, the yoons must be shittin bricks when that big useless eejit has been rolled out already.
Mon Scotland.
Fred:
“The Cuckoo”
link to youtube.com
Or maybe Brown’s more addictive than that!
link to youtube.com
Peace Always
Links
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
link to ericjoyce.co.uk
link to commonspace.scot
link to alynsmith.eu
Watch and share
link to twitter.com
link to newsnet.scot
link to taxresearch.org.uk
Interesting take from leading German thinktank on how & why EU27 should be flexible & alert on Scotland & Northern Ireland in Brexit talks
link to swp-berlin.org
link to politics.co.uk
link to thecanary.co
link to euobserver.com
Plan for Britain? Error messages blight new government website
link to archive.is
Irish PM tells Trump “St Patrick was patron saint of immigrants”
link to twitter.com
link to londonstandardnews.com
link to bloomberg.com
Nana: Good Morning,
Looking as though it may brighten up, now that the links have arrived. Thank you.
🙂
Peace Always
@Smallaxe
Good morning. It will brighten up around three o’clock when Nicola makes her speech.
Loved your poem on the new thread. I’m saving it!
A few more links
link to scottovoce.wordpress.com
Petitions in Italy & Germany for Scotland to remain in the EU
link to you.wemove.eu
link to twitter.com
link to you.wemove.eu
Nana:
Rab the Ranter helped me with that one.A wee bit. 🙂
Peace Always
caz-m (10:30),
Sorry for late response Mucker but have only just seen your post due to tracking back.
Can’t make this one, I’m right in the middle of a lot of upheaval at the moment and I’m due to go out of circulation again for a bit.
I’ll be with yous in spirit though and keeping tabs on events. Good to see it didn’t take you long to pick up the pace again, it’s as if you’ve never been away. 😉
Borg Queen: POUNDSHOP! What the fuck it that chewin oan ma furniture?
Poundshop Borg Queen: Ohhh that’s ma wee Brownhog Goegsie.
Borg Queen: Looks a bit Jurassic tae me.
Poundshop: Aye he’s getting on but he makes the cutest wee noises when he gets excited.
Poundshop: Goegsie say hello tae Borgie.
Brownhog: Vowvow vowvowvow vow vow vowvowvowvowvow
Borg Queen: Why does that gie me Deja vu?
Briandoonthetoon
Cheery most gratificles jolly mo!
Can I suggest that Monday’s front page of The National should consist of Munguin’s pictures of the audiences at the 4 political conferences.
Has any of the SNP conference been shown on the BBC or ITV yet?
UK POLL as reported in The Telegraph today:
………..BREXIT Bigger than the Union………………….
“BREXIT is more important to voters than keeping the United Kingdom together, a poll for The Daily Telegraph has revealed.
Almost two thirds of people agreed that Britain’s EU departure mattered more than stopping the UK’s break-up, while just 27 per cent disagreed. Furthermore, a majority of respondents said they would vote for Brexit even if they knew it could trigger Scotland’s independence…….”
Robert Peffers
“As usual, Phil, you expose your total ignorance but I had though you would at least have understood such basic mathematics.”
I know enough about mathematics to know what a majority is.
As for your statements,
“SNP are in fact in power at Holyrood by gaining by far the majority of votes over every other individual party”
is a lie.
“Thus the SNP have a majority over the Tories of 32 seats. That is a very big majority.”
is not even sensible English.
Robert Peffers says:
“I’m not about to attempt to continue to argue with such an obvious idiot. To do so would only bring me down to your low level of idiocy, Phil.”
Dinnae go doon tae thon yins level, Mr Peffers, that loon will beat ye wi’ his experience doon ther so e’ wull.
Peace Always
@ Phil Robertson: “is not even sensible English.”
I’m fairly sure he said he is.
We all know Scottish Labour are a dying party. What do they actually represent anymore? Her opinion is irrelevent, Labour are irrelevant. They just piggyback the Conservatives anyway, like Ruth Davidson’s lap dog.
I know exactly what she is talking about, and I am amazed that she has said it publicly.
She is acknowledging that rigging of the votes is possible.
There is a mammoth hole in the system; where the ballot boxes are transported between the Voting Station and the Counting Station. During this time, boxes can be opened, the contents modified and the boxes resealed.
This can be simply countered by counting the votes before the boxes leave the Voting Station, again at the Counting Station, and comparing the results.
If you think that I am paranoid, I don’t care. I would rather be paranoid and win, than be complacent and lose.