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Blood from a stone

Posted on August 16, 2013 by

We might have to transcribe the whole thing, because it’s remarkable.

willierennienato

But for now here’s just a brief flavour of Willie Rennie on the subject of an independent Scotland’s membership of NATO, from last night’s Newsnight Scotland (from 5m 30s).

WILLIE RENNIE: Independence might well be inconsistent with being a member of NATO.

RAYMOND BUCHANAN: Let’s get some basics first of all – is Scotland in the North Atlantic?

RENNIE: Yes of course it is.

BUCHANAN: Does it have a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy?

RENNIE: As part of the United Kingdom it does, yes.

BUCHANAN: Would it as an independent country?

RENNIE: Well, it’s not an independent country, so it doesn’t.

BUCHANAN: If it were, do you think it would have a functioning democratic political system with a market economy?

RENNIE: I, I, I… I suppose so, Raymond.

BUCHANAN: You’re not quite sure on that.

Readers, that’s what the people of Scotland are up against in trying to get a mature debate about independence from the No camp. (Because that takes two sides.)

Astonishingly, Buchanan has to ask THREE questions to get Willie Rennie to concede – reluctantly and grudgingly – that he supposes an independent Scotland would have a functioning democratic political system. (To be honest, we’re amazed he admitted so quickly that it was in the North Atlantic.)

It’s starting to look like “Better Together” are actually serious about the notion that an independent Scotland would immediately become a totalitarian one-party dictatorship. If it’s so hard to even get them to accept that Scotland would be a democracy, what earthly hope is there of getting them to discuss anything else like grown-ups?

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    137 to “Blood from a stone”

    1. Rod Mac says:

      When I see or hear Wee Willie Winkie on TV or radio I think ,how can anyone possibly vote for a Party that has this man as its leader.
      Then you see and hear Phanny Alexander , Moore and Minging Campbell, how do these people get elected?

    2. Jiggsbro says:

      I can think of at least 3 reasons why we wouldn’t be a functioning democratic political system with a market economy. None of them true, obviously, but we’ll hear about them endlessly for another 13 months. It’s not that we’re too wee, too poor and too stupid. That would be ridiculous. It’s that we’re not big enough, not rich enough and not smart enough. And no one likes us. And we smell of wee.

    3. steven luby says:

      @Rod Mac : they are elected due to political apathy that has been encouraged within the UK for some decades.More talented ‘characters’ are out there and certainly more political savvy. But if they don’t step forward,then we become governed by the inferior. 

    4. sneddon says:

      Ah poor wullie- the pub bores pub bore.  Did he perchance go to the same school of rhetoric as a certain Duncan H?
      I can’t understand why he is taken seriously, even by his own side.  It’s moved beyond dislike for the man I feel really sorry for him.  He seems to be either out of his depth entirely, in everything or he’s a deep plant by the SNP 🙂

    5. Brian Powell says:

      They cannot deal with discussion beyond saying Scotland wouldn’t function as an Independent country.
      ProUnionists can’t grasp that will be judged as politicians on what they say now, with or without Independence.

    6. Iain says:

      It’s not that we’re too wee, too poor and too stupid. 
      It’s some of our elected representatives who are too wee, too poor and too stupid.

    7. Jiggsbro says:

      It says something about their disdain for their own country that they’d rather look like an idiot than risk saying something remotely positive about an independent Scotland.

    8. Robert says:

      I can’t help but like wee Willie…but he is woefully wallowing whilst trying to defend the indefensible.
      I sometimes feel his heart isn’t really in it so he lets his brain go on holiday.

    9. Jiggsbro says:

      It’s some of our elected representatives who are too wee, too poor and too stupid.
       
      That’s unfair. Many of them are millionaires.

    10. Jimbo says:

      Sneddon wrote:
      “I can’t understand why he is taken seriously, even by his own side.”
       
      I don’t think he can be taken seriously by anyone – including himself.

    11. Angus says:

      Rennie looked like a total dork last night, utter insult to the intelligence and so desperate to slag off Scotland as being ‘anything’ at all worthy in any manner meant he fumbled around like a confused spoilt child.
       
      Very unconvincing-keep up the bad work will rennie, you still have the undecideds to alienate.

    12. Kenny Campbell says:

      Aye but to be really rich you need to get the Politicians working for you….

    13. JasonF says:

      Rennie seems to be saying that one or more of the countries in Nato, most of which don’t have nuclear weapons, are going to tell Scotland it has to keep them. It doesn’t seem likely that countries who don’t want nuclear weapons are going to be demanding this as a condition of entry, nor does it seem likely that any countries who would like nuclear weapons on their soil would make a fuss either. So that probably leave the rest of the UK and the USA. That should make negotiations a lot easier. 

    14. Tattie-boggle says:

      I watched WWW this morning on I player it was Top notch stuff. I even Tweeted about his Balloonery……….

    15. Westie7 says:

      Still trying to get my head round why folk like this are asked to comment whilst ignoring the Greens and the Independents. Surely the media are giving the LDs more coverage than their party status deserves. Maybe after this one they’ll shake their heads and leave him alone for a fair while

    16. Robert Knight says:

      Wait… Independence itself is inconsistent with being a member of NATO?

    17. Morag says:

      Jiggsboro has it right.  Stu is over-analysing this.  It’s not that Rennie thinks an independent Scotland would be a Mugabe-style dictatorship run by Fat Eck.  He wasn’t thinking his answer’s through as clearly as that.
       
      He was simply absolutely desperate not to say anything at all positive about an independent Scotland, no matter how obviously irrefutable.  I imagine he’d have done the same thing if he’d been asked to affirm that the sun will still (occasionally) shine in an independent Scotland.

    18. Morag says:

      Answers.  ANSWERS.  Damn the automatic apostrophe-finger and damn the uneditable posts.

    19. Fourfolksache says:

      Aye and where FFS was the SNP heavy hitter to state what a lying dissembling clown he is??
      Where? Missed opportunity?

    20. Tattie-boggle says:

      To get nukes from your land it would be undermining the rUK who is a NATO member. No Willie if rUK want nukes they can have them on their land

    21. Adrian B says:

      Answers.  ANSWERS.  Damn the automatic apostrophe-finger and damn the uneditable posts.
       
      About time you learnt how to use a text editor like ‘notepad’, then copy and paste comment into comment box.

    22. G H Graham says:

      It really is quite remarkable observing adults behaving like this.
      He reminds me of Tariq Aziz who when questioned by CNN, claimed that no American tanks were in Baghdad even though the viewer could see & hear A1 tanks rolling behind him in the distance.
      It’s one symptom of a people who have been so indoctrinated & fearful of change that they will say things which are simply untrue yet will continue to repeat themselves so often they are convinced the truth has just been spoken.
      This is the type of behaviour we see in dictators, despots & corrupt governments that usually end up being overthrown once the good people of the general public no longer accept being taken for mugs.

    23. Angry Weegie says:

      @westie7
      He gets asked because Lamont has been struck dumb (thankfully) and Davidson has to ask Cameron before saying anything, so she needs a week’s notice.  Rennie seems to be keen to take every chance to get on tele, even when he obviously isn’t prepared.

    24. Stevie says:

      Okay – made me laugh today; you nearly made me laugh yesterday.  In this political debate, very little makes one laugh.

      Willie Rennie – what a complete fool that man is.

    25. creag an tuirc says:

      One day, I hope someone will say on live TV  “Away you go Wullie and stop talking shite”

    26. Ron Burgundy says:

      The man and his party are an irrelevance and facing oblivion. It will be interesting to see what happens and the polls narrow and narrow over the autumn into the winter ( and of course the Rev’s Panelbase poll points to a near dead heat at the moment!! ) how people like Rennie will deal with the situation of a potential YES win.
      Will he take a punt and drivel on like this in the hope that NO squeek it in September or will he hedge his bets and drop out of sight in the summer of next year praying that embarrassments like this will be forgotten by Scottish voters after independence.
       

    27. muttley79 says:

      @G H Graham
       
      He reminds me of Tariq Aziz who when questioned by CNN, claimed that no American tanks were in Baghdad even though the viewer could see & hear A1 tanks rolling behind him in the distance.
      It was not Tariz Aziz, it was the Iraqi (Dis/mis) Information Minister.  Aziz was deputy dawd to Saddam Hussein, and very probably a war criminal.  Does anyone know what happened to Aziz anyway?  Is he still alive/ in jail etc?
      On the Rennie interview: well done Raymond B!

    28. X_Sticks says:

      Iain says:
      “It’s some of our elected representatives who are too wee, too poor and too stupid”
      Jiggsbro says:
      “That’s unfair. Many of them are millionaires.”
      Also, many are obese, and very, very devious.
       

    29. Richie says:

      @ Sneddon
      “… or he’s a deep plant by the SNP”
      You mean he’s a root vegetable?
       

    30. Rod Mac says:

      Our unionist Politicians will be like commies in Poland East Germany post Berlin Wall .
      They will slink into oblivion  from whence they came, especially the Westminster troughers.
      The Exception being the SNP MPs. the Davidsons ,Alexanders  are Finito Benito.
      All we have just now is the rearguard action, futile and we will be well shot of them.
      There is lots of new blood ready to step forward to take Scotland to its new and rightful place in the nations of the world.

    31. Holebender says:

      Remember folks, the Unionist parties send their best and brightest to Westminster where… erm… Wee Willie Rennie was a member for four years.

    32. Dan Simmie says:

      This will get better when Rennie has to go face to face with the YES campaign.He is clearly trying to defend something he doesn’t understand,its just a case of if the SNP support it then we oppose it,of course he doesn’t know why and thats why he can’t argue his case ,at all.

    33. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Is this what passes as SERIOUS debate from Willie Rennie?
      Does he or ANYONE from Better Together actually understand what it means when they call for a SERIOUS debate?
      Can someone please explain to everyone at Better Together that when invited on to a news programme to discuss a topic that this is NOT an invitation to go off on one long anti Alex Salmond/SNP rant.
      Please tell me that LibDem voters, if there are any left, have come to the same realisation as the rest of us that Willie Rennie is the worst LibDem “leader” they have ever had!

    34. Taranaich says:

      BUCHANAN: Does it have a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy?
      RENNIE: As part of the United Kingdom it does, yes.
      BUCHANAN: Would it as an independent country?
      RENNIE: Well, it’s not an independent country, so it doesn’t.
       
      What the hell do you think Buchanan MEANT by “would it as an independent country,” ya big numpty?
       
      Times like this I wish I could reach into the screen and skelp someone on the back of the heid.

    35. Paula Rose says:

      It seemed to me that Rennie was suggesting that the rUK in the event of independence might veto Scotland’s membership of NATO.

    36. Morag says:

      About time you learnt how to use a text editor like ‘notepad’, then copy and paste comment into comment box.
       
      I’m not quite sure how that’s supposed to help, when the problem is not noticing the typo until after the comment has been posted.  That time, the system told me I couldn’t edit even though no other post had been submitted, so I don’t really understand it.

    37. les wilson says:

      I have watched Rennie so many times on tv interviews, absolutely nothing will change my mind, HE IS A NUMPTY !!

    38. Jiggsbro says:

      What the hell do you think Buchanan MEANT by “would it as an independent country,” ya big numpty?
       
      The cognitive dissonance involved in saying anything positive about an independent Scotland extends to recognising the possibility of an independent Scotland. It’s like Voldermort: so long as you don’t mention it, it will never come.

    39. Tinyzeitgeist says:

      “Does it have a functioning democratic political system “… You mean like Westminster?
      One thing Westminster is not is a democracy. It is more properly a kleptocracy or corporatocracy. Better together to get robbed by the racketeers and spivs.

    40. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      If it were up to me I’d have Rennie on the tv every night talking about why we’re better together.
      As a supporter of Scottish Independence I don’t think any more need be said.  

    41. Gordoz says:

      Listen this is all a bit unfair on poor Wullie, he at least is good for comedy value  surely  ….  come on
      Its’ like trying  to make sense of a message  from a 3 yr old at times.
      Does he not make you shake yer head & chuckle ?
      It’s that ‘Tavish Scott’  and his smirking wheeze freedom for Shetland that gets me.  What a weasel
      You have to wonder who votes for that numpty ? Was there really no one better up against him ?
      Now that is the essence of a devious git.

    42. Martin Hodgson says:

      Before we congratulate Raymond Buchannan on ‘showing up’ Willie Rennie as an obvious incompetent, unprepared unionist fear-speculator, let’s consider the BBC In Scotland’s intention in interviewing such a political non-entity in the first place. I’d suggest that this is an interview that didn’t go as planned for the broadcaster and that RB and his bosses won’t be satisfied with the result. Remember that he has delivered ‘spun’ misinformation in other reports with the clear intention of damaging the Yes vote camp. It is sheer happy accident, therefore, that Rennie’s muddled directive was coupled with RB’s inability to hold himself back from chasing a clear answer in an interview. (probably a momentary lapse of journalistic concentration over staying ‘on message’). Always be aware that the BBC In Scotland, just like the Scotsman, will do anything to maintain the union and their editorial is more than suspect.

    43. frankieboy says:

      He has to be the first ever Rennie to GIVE you indigestion.

    44. Doug Daniel says:

      “(To be honest, we’re amazed he admitted so quickly that it was in the North Atlantic.)”
       
      Indeed.
       
      BUCHANAN: Let’s get some basics first of all – is Scotland in the North Atlantic?
      RENNIE: It is as part of the United Kingdom, yes.
      BUCHANAN: But would it still be in the North Atlantic as an independent country?
      RENNIE: Well, who knows what plans Alex Salmond and his SNP have up their sleeves? We already know they want to isolate Scotland from the beautiful magnificence of the United Kingdom, how do we know they don’t want to ensure that isolation is permanent by pushing Scotland into the South Atlantic? These are the questions people are asking, and Alex Salmond refuses to answer them.

    45. Richard Lucas says:

      Willie Rennie – the Count Arthur Strong of Scottish politics

    46. eddie says:

      Engerland wants to have nukes but as has been said already, it isn’t prepared to site them anywhere near one of it’s major cities, hence the reason that admiralty nonces have been investigating siting the subs in Nor’n Ire-land.

    47. Patrick Roden says:

      @ MUtley 79
      Comical Ali, as the Iraqi information minister was dubbed, was executed by America for war crimes.
      Not sure if this was what you wanted to know, as your grammar was so diabolical, I could hardly work out if you wanted to ask about ‘yir erse or yir elbow’
      Sorry bud, but I’ve noticed the increasingly shrill grammar Nazis seem to be having all the fun on wings, so I thought I’d pick on you.
      I won’t bother editing my post, so that you too can enjoy the feelings of superiority, as you wiggle your finger and scold at my mistakes.

    48. Patrick Roden says:

      PS Mutley 79, Not that I’ve ever noticed your one of the wings grammar Nazis, btw.

    49. Tamson says:

      @sneddon:
      Ah poor wullie- the pub bores pub bore.

      Isn’t that unfair on pub bores?

      They are generally knowledgeable about something, even if it doesn’t interest anyone.

    50. Jiggsbro says:

      Before we congratulate Raymond Buchannan on ‘showing up’ Willie Rennie as an obvious incompetent, unprepared unionist fear-speculator,
       
      I’m not sure the job was so tricky that it deserves congratulation. My granny could have shown him up and she takes no interest in politics, having been dead for 30 years.

    51. Ananurhing says:

      You would have to hope that Rennie had a massive Basil Fawlty style cowering cringe as soon as he was off camera, with his Spad banging his head off the wall. That was laughable. 
      What a complete choob!

    52. Macart says:

      Just stunning. I’d missed that interview and I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry.
       
      Can you imagine what other countries must think when they look at the state of political opposition in Scotland?

    53. DMW42 says:

      Kudos to the state broadcaster’s CGI department, that image almost looked lifelike. I couldn’t see the strings at all.

    54. Erchie says:

      I was listening to Paddy O’Connell (sitting in for Jereny Vine) on Radio Two talking about Fracking

      The interviewed someone who lived 4 miles away from the site at the centre of the current row (not that O’Connell was listening. He asked her, she replied, said something else then asked her again)

      He kept trying to get her to say she was planning violence and direct action, and she stated her position clearly, and he kept at it. He never tried to get the pro-Fracking scientist to admit he was employed by the Fracking companies, only the protestor got the treatment. He even slapped her down for mentioning that the Fracking company had been found to be doing false advertising by the ASA
       
      Listen to the Friday episode on iPlayer, from about 12:10 to 12:30

    55. benarmine says:

      Rennie was an absolute twat but the CND guy opposite didn’t exactly set the heather on fire either I’m afraid burbling about Scotland being in a quiet neighbourhood so not needing Trident. Do these Yes people panic, not having their arguments straight in their heads or something? I’ve seen it time and again, not getting the facts straight out when shown an open goal.

    56. G H Graham says:

      It’s always amusing to have one’s entry corrected by someone who suffers from poor spelling and very weak grammar.
       
      And while I may from time to time make factual errors which are easy to correct, I imagine those with spelling & grammar problems may have a much more difficult problem to solve.
       
      For training purposes, may I recommend a series of spelling books which were, in my childhood anyway, published by Ladybird, which no adult who suffers from inept writing skills should ignore?

    57. HandandShrimp says:

      Willie doesn’t make me despair about politics, he makes me despair for the human race.
       
      Independence might be inconsistent with being a member of NATO? Well if independence is inconsistent with being a member of NATO what is the fucking point of NATO. I thought it was there to protect free independent countries not get rid of them.

    58. Murray McCallum says:

      I actually struggled to watch this Newsnight Scotland edition.  It was painful (maybe even pitiful) to watch.  Wullie Rennie just looks like a politician taking his pay, doing no real in-depth research and therefore adding zero value to anything.  He strikes me as a very lazy politician.
       
      The removal of nukes from Scotland is a popular policy.  We should be confident about NATO either way when Scotland is an independent nation.  If they do not want our conventional forces in their club then so what?

    59. Macart says:

      @Handandshrimp
       
      He pretty much left Buchanan with no choice but to kick his arse all over the screen. Had the interviewer let him off with even the first answer the switchboard and servers would still be log jammed now. 😀
       
      It takes a special talent to screw up a soft interview in a safe room, but Willie has that talent in spades.

    60. fitheach says:

      @Patrick Roden
      Comical Ali, as the Iraqi information minister was dubbed, was executed by America for war crimes.
      Nope. Chemical Ali (Ali Hassan al-Majid) was executed by the Iraqi authorities. Comical Ali (Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf) was captured by the Americans and then released. Execution for telling lies on TV would be a bit harsh but I can imagine it would give a whole new perspective to the independence debate. 😉

    61. IainGraysSubwayLament says:

      Wee Willie Rennie is a sad joke only wheeled out by the unionist friendly scottish media to give the illusion of a broader based No campaign. This despite the scottish lib dems being reduced to complete irrelevance in scotland under the ‘leadership’ of Clegg and his tame yes man Rennie. Any sane leader of a scottish party in the incredible state of decline as the lib dems would be a touch more worried about the state of his own party, and distancing themselves from the toxic Clegg, instead of constantly appearing as a media darling to wheel on at every opportunity to bash the Nats. 
       
      Though it’s telling that the scottish media prefer even the witless Rennie to a scottish tory as their goto rent-a-quote unionist.
       
      It would also be interesting to see how many more times Rennie is regularly on Newsnicht and other TV slots compared to the greens.
       
      Decent lib dems left their party long ago after yellow tories like Rennie and Clegg shit all over what they used to stand for.
       
      When the electorate tells Clegg to eff off his yes man Rennie will soon follow and all those most closely associated with the lib dems rightward lurch into becoming Thatcherite poodles for Cameron and the tories.

    62. bramasag says:

      Three reason Scotland does not have a functioning democracy
      Willie Rennie
      Ruth Davidson
      Johann Lamont

    63. HandandShrimp says:

      I’m sure Willie isn’t actually stupid but this is an object lesson in what happens when you try to turn every sentence into a negative comment…you look a complete twat.

    64. David Farrer says:

      Good evening Reverend Campbell.
       
      You may like to have a look at this:
      http://scotfree2014.blogspot.co.uk
      “It represents libertarians who are going to vote for Scottish independence in the referendum on September 18, 2014”

    65. Doug Daniel says:

      The annoying thing is we all know it’s unionists who are ruining the debate, yet it’s become trendy to wish a plague on both houses. Sometimes it’s simply WetNats trying to play the “look how wonderfully impartial and therefore intellectually superior I am” game, but often it’s undecided voters seeing Yes supporters reacting to the pish coming from unionists, like when a teacher has their back turned when someone tries to provoke a fellow pupil, and then they turn round just in time to see the provoked kid retaliating.
       
      I don’t understand why an undecided voter wouldn’t pick up on this kind of thing and say “look, if you can’t even bring yourself to admit Scotland wouldn’t suddenly descend into anarchy post-independence, then I have no option but to conclude that you’re playing me for a fool, so I will ignore your arguments entirely.”
       
      Mind you, I can’t understand why anyone would be undecided…
       
      Oh, wasn’t this the same Willie Rennie who claimed not to believe the “too wee, too poor” stuff in one of the WoS poll questions?

    66. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

      Richie says:
      16 August, 2013 at 6:18 pm
      @ Sneddon
      “… or he’s a deep plant by the SNP”
      You mean he’s a root vegetable?
      Obviously not, while not foody-glamourous they are nutritious, useful things .

    67. Jiggsbro says:

      I can’t see “I suppose so, Raymond” taking off in quite the same way as “I agree with Nick”.
       
      Fortunately.

    68. HandandShrimp says:

      Macart
       
      Journalists are like wolves once they smell blood even if they weren’t planning to eat they just have to go for it. Willie slashed his own wrists in the first 30 seconds.
       
      Rev I guess you should transcribe the whole thing for the record but I’m not sure my brain can take that level of insanity.

    69. Macart says:

      I’m still reeling over Nato and independence being incompatible. 😀
       
      We must never send Willie over to the states as any kind of envoy.
       
      Although….

    70. sneddon says:

      Tamson.  You’re right.  To all pub bores I apologise for the error of including Wee Wuliie Rennir(WWR) amognst your august number.  Lessons have been learned (@SLAB) and so. let us draw a line under the matter and move forward (@SLAB)’.   WWR is not a pub bore he’s  just a lump of an intellect left oot in the rain.  He and Tavish should form some sort of act(Dumb and Stupider?).
       
      Richie.  The only vegetable that springs to mind is Mr Potato Head 🙂

    71. ally says:

      @Fourfolksache says:
      16 August, 2013 at 5:39 pm

      Aye and where FFS was the SNP heavy hitter to state what a lying dissembling clown he is??
      Where? Missed opportunity?
      RB: “No-one from the SNP was available”
      I can tell you for a FACT that Bill Kidd MSP (NATO / Anti-trident spokesman) was “available” & lives 3 miles from Pacific Quay! – He was available & wouldve been delighted to appear, but, was never approached.
      Whether that was a problem at the BBC or at SNP press-office, I can’t comment! 

    72. James Westland says:

      All this talk about the Iraqi Information minister.  The site is still up!! Total star he was. Better Together could learn some good stuff from him.

      http://welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
       
      And his famous quotes can be found at:
       
      http://welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/#quotes
       
      Regarding Tariq Aziz. Oodles of stuff about Tariq Aziz on Wikipedia. Looks like he is still in the nick.
       
       

    73. HandandShrimp says:

      Mind you, you don’t need anyone to counter Willie Rennie he is a self-countering politician.

    74. Edulis says:

      I think I am right in saying Tariq Aziz died of natural causes two or three years after 2003.
      BTW I can’t see the LibDems holding on to any of their MPs in 2015. That won’t matter of course since they will already have had advance notice of pending unemployment in 2014.

    75. muttley79 says:

      @Patrick Roden
       
      Comical Ali, as the Iraqi information minister was dubbed, was executed by America for war crimes.

      No, it was Chemical Ali who was executed for the gassing of the Kurds in the 1980s. 
       
      Has anyone read the Guardian article about Andrew Marr’s comments?  What a lot of rubbish.  He says the independence debate is getting aggressive (fair enough it has been getting heated).  Marr blames the Yes side for this, cites “hardline Scottish Nationalists’ ” treatment of Farage, and says there is a lot of anti-English sentiment in Scotland (no evidence offered).  So basically he is talking nonsense, and never mentions the now routine Unionist depiction of Salmond as a dictator etc.  Very disappointing from supposedly a highly rated broadcaster and journalist.

    76. Alex Grant says:

      I am awaiting a reply from SNP HQ as to why no one was available!!!

    77. Firestarter says:

      Its becoming increasingly obvious just how “Wullie” became the leader of the Lib Dems in Scotland. When the post was up for grabs, and the call went out “Anyone who wants to be leader, step forward” ……….. everyone else took one step back.

    78. HandandShrimp says:

      Muttley
       
      I read the Marr piece and when I saw the headline I thought it would be a hatchet job but to be honest I thought it was a lot less contentious than I expected. Given he was clearly answering questions from assembled journalists at his book launch and he is recovering from a stroke I thought he managed to make some salient points. Yes the debate can be toxic and some harsh words have passed on both sides but his view on the polls, the expectation that Salmond, who he seems quite impressed by, would come into the fray in the run up to the vote and be quite decisive coupled with his comment that if it was a Yes vote he would apply for a Scottish passport were all things I am sure Better Together would rather he hadn’t said. You can be sure that these bits won’t get any headlines in the MSM and people will concentrate on the toxic comments. Bit disappointed Newsnet has too actually. There was a lot more in what he said than just that the debate can be nasty at times.

    79. Alabaman says:

      Willie Rennie, the ” Kelty clippie”, actually I do beleave he did at one time win the annual
      caol sack carrying race, so carrying a heavy burden on his shoulders for so long (since winning
      I think he has kept that same bag of coal, and maybe practices, incase he enters again !)
      thats why the heavy burden is beginning to tell.
       

    80. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Alex Grant
       
      If the SNP were forewarned that unionist representative was WWR than I suppose they just couldn’t find the tea boy to even up the debate?

    81. Macart says:

      @H&S
       
      Near lost my evening medicinal dram over that. 😀
       
      Self-countering.

    82. Firestarter says:

      Oh, and Morag (apologies if I am speaking out of turn here!) …. it seems that, after coming over all “grammar and spelling” police (ish) a few days ago, you are being a tiny bit paranoid about any errors of your own which slip through. Let it go, no-one is bothered. Concentrate, as I’m sure WE all do, on the content of the excellent points which you always make … not on misplaced apostrophes 😉
      If that sounds condescending (which it is most definitely not meant to) ……… I’ll take a slap on the wrist.

    83. les wilson says:

      Rennie is another one who should be interviewed by Bernard Ponsonby!
      He would also fall apart, he has not got a depth of knowledge on er, ANYTHING!
       

    84. HandandShrimp says:

      I have always found that any post criticising speeling and grammer is itself riven with errors as some sort of divine justice for being a smart arse. So unless a post is particularly egregious I tend to let it pass.

    85. Red squirrel says:

      Presumably Willie Rennie knows that he actually lives here so why does he refer Scotland in the third person? He kept robotically repeating that Scotland would be undermining the UK’s right to have their trident toys and when challenged with Defence Secretary’s comment that he didn’t see why Scotland wouldn’t be welcome in NATO, spluttered that the rUK govt doesn’t exist yet so who knows what that will be like. Please Newsnight don’t make him explain again – the fabric of the universe will unravel.

    86. Macart says:

      @Firestarter
       
      When I get carried away on a post I always wix my mucking fords up and my granma is awful. 🙂

    87. Firestarter says:

      @ HandandShrimp
      LOL 🙂 (hope I spelt that correctly!) 🙂

    88. Firestarter says:

      @Macart
      Your Grandma aint gonna forgive you for that statement! :O

    89. James Morton says:

      It also comes down to this bizarre notion that whatever Scotland is, its entirely dependent on the UK for it.  Be it sports, science, trade, even our own devolved parliament. Without the UK, it simply ceases to exist. I find it odd that when defending the union, you would portray Scotland as nothing more than an entity that exists on UK sufferance, and be then be proud about that.
      They actually take delight in the notion that they are wee prentendy Englishmen – with a funny accent, getting the real English to pay for everything.
      If it wasn’t so pathetic it’d be tragic. The sort of thing Aristophanes would have had fun ripping the pish out of. 

    90. Macart says:

      @Firestarter
       
      As soon as she’s finished her weightlifting and had a pint of gin, I’ll come clean. Honesty is the best policy. 🙂
       
      Also, she’ll be more mellow by that point.

    91. cynicalHighlander says:

      I dnot bodloy crae aubot selnplig as lnog as one gtes lsoe and losoe in the rgiht cxeonxtt.

    92. Jon D says:

      @ James Morton
      Aye, sort aye like brings this tae mind.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1tJJO_pVvQ

    93. Shinty says:

      Can you imagine what other countries must think when they look at the state of political opposition in Scotland?
       
      I think that’s the whole problem – the DK’s don’t like the FM and see Holyrood as a complete joke – who wouldn’t after watching FMQ’s week after week. 

    94. Arbroath 1320 says:

      I think certain individuals, no names mentioned Macart and CH :lol:, have been spending a wee bit too long in the “Darkened Room” regularly sustained by liquid refreshments from the “bar” 😆

    95. HandandShrimp says:

      Willie on the other hand is in that state stone cold sober.

    96. Dcanmore says:

      @Muttley79…
       
      I think we just call him Comical Ali, or is that Alistair Darling? 🙂

    97. Shinty says:

      Sorry unable to edit above post – the unionists will always think and treat the Scottish Parliament as a ‘wee parish council’ it suits their agenda. Why else do the Scottish Gov. have such poor opposition?
       
       

    98. Macart says:

      @Arb
       
      Why I never…..
       
      I’ll have you know I’m the very picture of sobriety (cough). 🙂

    99. Arbroath 1320 says:

      I believe you Macart, though millions won’t, that’s all I’m saying. 😆

    100. AlexMci says:

      O/T, to all the wings folk who met tonight, that was a pleasure. Brilliant evening and the eclectic disscussions between people ,who in normal circumstances would not be drinking partners was amazing. Really hope we can do it again, and if the numbers are even greater the next time , brilliant. If not, I will see all you folk again in September on the hill. Thank you all for your company.

    101. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Alex Mcl-
       
      Just home.
       
      It was a great session.
       
      Thanks aplenty to all who turned up. Ye’s know who ye are.
       
      A good nicht indeed.
       
      It’ll happen again. That’s for sure.
       
       

    102. AlexMci says:

      @Ian brotherhood, yes mate you can say that again. I’m buzzing just being able to get my point of view over to others who I would not normally be mixing with. The independence supporters seem to come from all walks of life, but are so easy in each others company . It really makes me proud to be part of this thing. And I feel so lucky to be able to pick up points of view that I would not be privy to in normal circumstances. So again thank you all for the education given freely from you all. Alex

    103. a supporter says:

      Dcanmore at 10:40 pm 16/Aug
      I think we just call him Comical Ali, or is that Alistair Darling? 
       
      No. Comical Ali is our friend Corky the Clown, Cocky, Cockers or Cochers in partnership with Simple Simon on the Telegraph. 
       
      Alistair Darling is … NO Darling.

    104. rabb says:

      Alex, Ian,
       
      Let me know when the next meet is and I’ll be there this time.

    105. ally says:

      Likewise! Can the Ayr, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Stornaway etc groups not do the same?
       
      Sounds like a good idea – may have to be “private functions” by the end of the year.
       
      My only concern is that as “”LA RESSISTANCE”” – (THINK WW11 MOVIES!) we need to be VERY careful!
      I worry for the Rev – that is all!!     😉

    106. kevybaby says:

      I thought buchanan was exceptional on that show.  

    107. kevybaby says:

      guys i’m sorry but this position is completely hypocritical, but only because of the timing. It is utterly ridiculous to force out the nukes in your country then sign up the very next day to a treaty that allows those exact same nukes you wanted rid of to be stationed right where they were before. the right position is to fuck them off then once they are gone, sign up to NATO and insist they cannot be brought back.  

    108. Marker Post says:

      BUCHANAN: Does it have a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy?
      RENNIE: As part of the United Kingdom it does, yes.
      BUCHANAN: Would it as an independent country?
      RENNIE: Well, it’s not an independent country, so it doesn’t.

      MARKER POST: Do you regard Scotland as a country?
       
      I would love to hear Rennie’s answer to that question…

    109. Angus MacC says:

      Is it dreams of knighthoods and lordships that drive the Rennie’s, The Alexander’s (brother and sister) the Brown’s, Murphy’s etc?
      Why are they so happy to have 200 nuclear warheads based within Scotland’s biggest population, without deterrent from incoming missiles, afterall South Korea has protection, aswell as attack!
      Brian Wilson and Brian Monteith will explain it all in the Scotsman, revealing their pathological hatred of Alex Salmond as a great reason to support the above.

    110. Marker Post says:

      Rennie interview on YouTube courtesy of Peter Curran
       
       

    111. Marker Post says:

      Why would Scotland getting rid of Trident from the Clyde “undermine the rest of UK’s nuclear deterrence”? They can simply take them out, and site them somewhere else, preferably as far south-east as possible.
       
      And Rennie accuses the SNP of hypocrisy for wanting to remain part of NATO? Which is the bigger hypocrisy, that, or looking to spend 100 billion to upgrade Trident while having signed up to the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty?
       
      Sorry, Willie Rennie, but I can’t respond without swearing. You don’t represent Scotland in Westminster, you are, instead, a f**cking apologist for Westminster who happens to have been born on the wrong side of  history.
       
       

    112. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Marker Post
      Quote from Andrew Marr.
       
      He revealed that when he asked the Ministry of Defence what would happen to nuclear submarines stationed in Scotland, they suggested they could lease the base back, or designate it sovereign UK territory similar to Cyprus. He said they ruled out the possibility of moving them to England.

    113. Patrick Roden says:

      Haha, Yes I knew I was probably getting mixed up with my Ali’s, but I hope I never believed the Americans had reached the stage where they had started executing people for fibbing lol.
       
      The thing that is getting me annoyed about the spelling grammar stuff, is that I know we all want to win this referendum and we all believe that the more people read and comment on wings the more we will win over the undecided or even some ‘Nos’
       
      This I presume means we all understand that we may get some ‘low information’ people popping in who might wish to comment?
       
      Can you imagine what they’d think if the first response to their comments was someone telling them they should have written there instead of their/
       
      Bloody get a grip folks, put aside your own little quirks and think about the bigger picture.
      independence is bigger than you ‘grammatical pet hates’
      !5,000 new visitors, lets make sure that whatever their grammatical abilities they can comment on wings if they want and get any questions asked.

    114. sneddon says:

      Patrick.  Executing people for telling lies on tele *sigh*
       On the scale of things spelling and grammar is not as important on this blogs’ comments as getting your point across.  We’ve all typed in haste or when ‘tired and emotional’ and cringed about it afterwards.  And some of the spelling and grammar patter on here has been directed at ourselfs in a joking manner.  One thing we don’t want to do is end up looking like some teenagers facebook page written in txt.  But given the demograph for this site the spectre of txt speak replacing our ‘normal’ writing is remote.    I don’t recall any first time posters ever being pulled up for spelling and grammar mistakes.  But it’s a toughie whether to mention bad spelling and grammar or not (especially for the  members of the teaching profession amongst us)how do you know you’re doing it wrong until someone tells you?  But it is a blog not a classroom and it should be informative and gently humorous in my humble opinion.
      I hope that didn’t come over as a whinge but for a Saturday this is early for me!  But let’s not make a crisis out of a molehill after all we could be WWR. 🙂

    115. Firestarter says:

      Here we go 🙂

    116. Famous15 says:

      Rev Stu on air now

    117. Famous15 says:

      The space monster story undermined the poll…Prof Curtice and therefore the media reluctant to use.

    118. Famous15 says:

      Stu should have been on with Curtice to balance his crit. Overall positive I would say….it has opened the door but importantly the web site was given publicity.

    119. Tattie-boggle says:

      The media reluctant with space monsters but happy with mars mission and what waist size the FM has

    120. gordoz says:

      Great coverage  … not quite a hatchet job
      good point about FM
       
      more polls needed
       
      well done Stu

    121. bunter says:

      Thought overall GMS did a fair job and the chap mentioned the site to listeners a fair few times. Interesting Curtice’s opinion that the ”space monster” question may have scared the horses and that the ”would you join the Union” question was leading. Overall, I think good coverage and am keen to hear the Revs opinion on Curtices points.

    122. Firestarter says:

      Yup, all good. Well done, Rev Stu. Calm, positive and rational. Thought Bill Whiteford gave a fair crack of the whip, too – fair play to him. And, as Famous15 says – another rung up on the awareness ladder 🙂

    123. scottish_skier says:

      BBC Scotland has an audience share of 8.6%.
      I imagine the Rev may detect a rise in new visitors shortly.

    124. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      Great broadcast Rev Stu. Bill Whiteford seemed to pin Mr Curtice down a wee bit and I had a mental picture of Bill shaking his head in disbelief.

    125. HandandShrimp says:

      Thought that was pretty damned good actually Stu.
       
      Curtice was always going to be a bit “I’m the expert this was done by amateurs” but he wasn’t actually against what we did and his suggestions on how to improve the same questions were not wholly negative. He did concede that even with a suggested change to the wording of “would you join the Union” the answer would still most likely be No. Liked Curtice’s point that the press are too poor to do this sort of thing on a regular basis any more 🙂
       
      Bill seemed keen we do it again, Bless. I know GMS on Saturday doesn’t get the listeners of a weekday broadcast but it probably gets more listeners than the Herald, Scotsman, etc., get readers put together. 

    126. Albalha says:

      @scottishskier
      And the first hour of the Saturday GMS programme has higher listener numbers than the second hour, so it was also placed where more people would have heard it.
       
       

    127. MochaChoca says:

      Isn’t the bigger picture here that an Indy Scotland wouldn’t actually be ‘allowed’ to be a nuclear armed nation, and the only valid reason for one nation having another’s weapons imposed on it’s territory is for proximity to the (former?) enemy. This isn’t exactly the case with the Scotland/rUK situation.

    128. mealer says:

      After separation,Scotland might float against the current and find itself in the South Atlantic.

    129. donnywho says:

      well done rev, all in all a good bit of free pub, Curtice was a tad critical of the methodology, but then went on to slate the unionists so mostly fair. well done

    130. david says:

      after the 2011 election i initially found wullie rennies political suicide difficult and uncomfortable to watch. now i enjoy it. horrible little man who lies through his teeth for his masters in london. he reminds me of an obediant little puppy who will do anything to have his belly rubbed

    131. Scaraben says:

      @David
       
      Not a fair comparison. Why insult obedient little puppies? They give people pleasure.

    132. Elizabeth says:

      “an obediant little puppy who will do anything to have his belly rubbed” . A great description. He probably piddles with excitement when his masters shout “c’mon boy!”

    133. Famous15 says:

      Just read the “Scottish Daily Mail” in the barber’s. They have an insane writer called Warner or Werner who thinks Indy will be like St Kilda.  He had a comment like Scotland in no circumstances could be a successful nation. Sheer lunacy and how this ordure does not cause a major recoil ……am bloody speechless!

    134. Andy-B says:

      Unbelieveable, sums it up, Rennie wont even concede that after independence Scotland would have a democratic, political system with a market economy.
       
      How Rennie sleep at night, knowing he’s blocking the development of Scotland at every turn, if I met this clown in the street, Id have to say something to him, Im beginning to wonder if Rennie Lamont and Davidson, actually care about Scotland and Scots or just their political career, the latter seems the more obvious.
       
      O/T Rev..
       
      Iain Gray gets a two page spread in the DR today, Gray is licling his lips at the thought of a head to head with John Swinney, Gray virtually implies that Swinney has been forced to lie about Scotlands economic figures, and says he has several big question for Swinney, Swinney should take a leaf out of Rennies book when answering question..double standards me thinks.

    135. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Rabb (12.03)-
       
      From the later e-mails I sent during the week you’ll have seen that approx 25 names were included. Quite a few messaged me to say they couldn’t make it, and a good few of the dozen who did make it were not Glasgow-based.
       
      Three of the people there last night were from Hamilton (and turns out they live a stone’s throw apart) – perhaps that could be the next venue?
       
      Just a suggestion. That’s not to say there won’t be further Glasgow meetings.

    136. moemac says:

      I agree with everything said about that we numptie Willie Rennie.He is just an embarassment.
      However the big numptie has got to be Gerald Warner in the Mail who has the audacity to suggest that after Independence would be like St Kilda.Some seriously needs to take this
      cretin in hand !



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