The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Better together in the UK

Posted on November 15, 2013 by

The bit they always leave out is who it’s better for.

btn

Click either image for the story.

btso

“The best of both worlds” there, readers.

Print Friendly

    96 to “Better together in the UK”

    1. soorploom says:

      Yes, the Metro. Associated Newspapers’ jammed full of advertising, litter producing freebie similarly jammed full of erroneous stories and selected half truths.

      Just like the Daily Mail, its Unionist propaganda loaded sister paper.

    2. Brotyboy says:

      One of the deeply impressive things illustrated by their spreadsheet is the fact that Scotland is one homogeneous unit as far as certain of their statistics are concerned.

    3. Brotyboy says:

      And the second graphic has reversed their own results.

    4. Tom Hogg says:

      So it comes down to broadband speed and hours of sunshine, but that’s enough to hammer home the cringe.

    5. Illy says:

      I haven’t got time to look through their methods, but do they normalize average earnings and disposible income against cost-of-living?
      Because if they don’t then that will skew those towards the south of England and the big cities.
       
      “Hours of sunlight” is probably a good proxy for “further south is better”.  Though I do have to ask what time of year they took those ratings, because in the summer the skew flips to favour Scotland.

    6. Heather McLean says:

      Don’t know why Dundee is one of the worst places in the UK to live?? I think it’s a pretty good place to liveand now that the SNP are running the council it can only get better!
      We’ve got the V+ A coming to Dundee and a huge investment in the city in the Waterfront Project which will transform the centre of Dundee and attract business, investment and tourism to the city.
      Personally speaking, Dundee is far from perfect, but it’s certainly not one of the worst places to live, I’d far rather live in Dundee than a place like London.
      And as I mentioned before, now the SNP are the majority on the council, things can only improve!

    7. Macart says:

      Kind of says it all really.
       
      We contribute to a union where no part of our country features in a list of the top ten places to live in the entire UK. Clearly our contribution is money well spent. 🙁

    8. Doug Daniel says:

      Aww, that’s nice of them. But seriously, the Highlands and Western Isles are worse to live in than the shittier parts of English inner cities? Really, Metro? You’re quite sure about that?
       
      I do hope they run a similar survey after Scotland’s been independent for 10 years. We’ll see who’s got the shitty quality of life then…

    9. Illy says:

      (would have edited but got ninja’d)
      Other obvious skew:
      Broadband speed will correllate to how far from a big city you are.
       
      Since I don’t like living in cities, I would say that by that metric low broadband speed indicates a nicer place to live (though I would want to get fiber installed).

    10. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      I live and work in Edinburgh.
       
      You may kiss my arse, Metro.

    11. Another London Dividend says:

      O/T
      Call Kaye on about using the pound after independence.
      Once it is pointed out that there will be a run on the pound due to RuK’s worsening balance of payments after Scottish independence the Bank of England will be begging Scotland to use the pound Sterling.

    12. Sneddon says:

      So poor areas have less infrastructure, less average income and less employment- fuck me I never knew that- how desperate are the assholes who did this survey to get free publicity for their shitty price comparision website.

    13. ayemachrihanish says:

      Rev, this point was posted yesterday but it’s relevance the these two maps is startling.
       
      As said,  then entre the Labour Party – specifically the Labour Party in Scotland.
       
      Their focus – cultivate unemployment and poverty – blame everyone else for the cause – then capture the votes of the confused and deluded.
       
      It’s not their fault and not easy for the confused and deluded to see what’s going on – the Labour Party in Scotland are weapons’ grade experts at insidiousness.
       
      Where Labour Councils rule they fragment the solution to the economic progress and social mobility – and spend a fortune on “place men/woman” doing so. The aim? Have an impregnable fortress to progress – there are 33 different agency’s in Glasgow competing to keep people out of work – all that happens is they pass people from one agency to the other until dejected they plead for employment – but – as correctly point out – we still haven’t created any jobs. 
       
      So there are no jobs, just a well developed fortress of fragmented self interest!!            
       
      Poverty is Power!
       
      Progress is Evil!!
       
       
      If evidence is needed – just look at those maps – all are or were Labour council strongholds for generations – or reread/ listen to the recent bile of Ian Davidson on Govan…

    14. Atypical_Scot says:

      Michael Ossei of price comparison site uSwitch.com, which carried out the research, said:
      ‘This is hard evidence that if you control your data correctly, you can piss off loads of people.’

    15. Michael says:

      Lots of Scottish people seeing this will think, ‘it’s true, we are shit’. 

    16. Robert Kerr says:

      We might be shit but we are Scottish Shit.

    17. balgayboy says:

      On their map it indicates Angus & Dundee City at 3rd Place but in their list it’s sitting in 8th place! Tells me what a load of shite the numpties are who compiled this trash.

    18. Jr Ewen says:

      They have missed out Shetland which gets voted the happiest place in uk. 

    19. Horacesaysyes says:

      It also shows the same crime rate for the whole of Scotland. Somehow, I’m thinking the figures for Lochaber, Skye and Lochalsh might be slightly different from those for Glasgow City.

    20. Dcanmore says:

      It’s a perfect piece to keep the English hating Scotland ala Daily Mail readers (Daily Mail owns The Metro), so cue a lot of tut tutting useless socialist jocks, my taxes and so on. People don’t need to read into the methods used or who commissioned it, The Metro is designed to be ‘read’ for 20 minutes while travelling to work in the morning, if it was a story with no graphics then it would be ignored probably, but add the all-important maps and hey presto that is what people will take in. Anger is simmering nicely in England, bubbling away at an ever-increasing temperature which will reach its peak just in time of the referendum. Angry Scots fooled by Better Together and angry English fooled by their hate-filled media.
       
      We must ensure a YES vote.

    21. Ken500 says:

      The North East of Scotland and Orkney/Shetland have one of the best standards of living in the world. Norway is one of the best.

      Vote for Independence to make Scotland one of the best.

      Scotland is one of the best places to visit, according to travel associations.

    22. Robyn - Quine Fae Torry says:

      Having been to Solihull on numerous occasions, it isn’t somewhere I would pick off the top of my head as where I would want to live, I prefer the city centre of Birmingham.  Also surprised to see Conwy and Denbighshire in a  worst area category as I go on holiday there – Llandudo – regularly and it is gorgeous, as is the surrounding countryside.  In fact, that is a place I have contemplated having somewhere more permanent to live but the thought of owning a second property is not something that would sit easy with me.   Snowdon foothills, Marine Drive and Great Orme, or having a good John Lewis? Horses for courses, I suppose. 
       
      It would maybe useful to see a “happiest place index” to see if they tie in.   

    23. Ken500 says:

      The majority of people in England given the figures and the social factor totally understand why people in Scotland want Independence, many want the same policies. The majority in England do not want Westminster policies. Westminster has destroyed democracy in the UK.

      ConDemLabour/Unionist liars. Voted in to protect NHS/Education. Cut £3Billion a year from both. The ‘Room Tax’ is a despicable disgrace. Illegal wars, ax evasion, banking fraud. Targeting the poorer.

      Spending in the UK £720Billion. Taxes raised in Scotland £60Billion, enough to cover all Scotland’s needs. Scotland gets £48Billion back. Total taxes raised in the UK £610Billion. The rest of the UK borrows and spends 3times more than Scotland.

    24. HandandShrimp says:

      I think this is one to pass over to the Better Together mob to explain. We want independence to make Scotland a whole and better place they want the Union to keep things the same.

    25. call me dave says:

      Another London Dividend
      Call Kaye : How refreshing and encouraging to listen to ordinary folk and some experts agree that keeping the £ is no problem.  Even Kaye lets slip that the rUK is sabre rattling.  In fact many were for a Scottish currency after the initial use of said £ as Scotlands economy would be stronger based on the oil revenues,  
       
      Y’know I sense a wee shift in the last wee while that independence is coming.  People out there are getting the information that is plain to see and hear.
      PS:
      AS politician of the year for 3rd time and unbelievably Lamont debater of the year (didn’t turn up to accept it)   Too embarrassed to show her red face and to avoid making an acceptance speak no doubt.  Still in the bunker with you know who!

    26. Ken500 says:

      Unemployment in Portsmouth 3%

      Unemployment in Govan 15%

    27. pa_broon74 says:

      In short?
       
      Its all pish, the metro is a comical rag only one rung above Take-a-Break.
       
      No point in arguing the toss over how they could find Dundee or Inverness any where in the list of worst places to live because they basically aren’t.
       
      Typically for the UK, far too much importance is placed on money and disposable income, while it helps to have it, its not the be all and end all. I live and work in Edinburgh too and I’m practically homeless because I can’t afford to buy or rent (and I earn above – although not by much – the average supposed income.
       
      I’d be pissed off if who ever produced that arse-gravy earned more than I did. 

    28. Les Wilson says:

      What ever happened to the “Truth Team? ” BT is reliant on TOTAL CRAP!

    29. Robert Louis says:

      A class of five year olds could pick holes in this story, it really is nonsense, created from silly data.
       
      So, broadband speeds are lower on the isle of skye than in Manchester, really???  No shit sherlock.
       
      This is like saying Manhcester is a better place to live because it has more GP surgeries than there are in Skye and Lochaber – whereas what is more important is GP suregeries per head of population.  Or London is a better place to live because it has more Bentley dealers than in Inverness. 
       
      It is a silly, nonsense story, made up from even sillier data comparisons.  In other words, utter utter pish.  Not even worth getting angry about.
       
      Is this really what we call journalism nowadays??  What a ‘profession’.

    30. HandandShrimp says:

      Thought the GMB chap last was very fair and very balanced and made a couple of good points. I noticed he said specifically that the decision on independence was for the Scottish people. He also poo poo’d the notion of returning the work to Portsmouth after the yard was shut and developers had built houses on it. All Ed Davy could do was shake his head in denial. Qt was totally derailed by Nigel’s anti-global warming stance. He seems to have become quite eccentric must a House of Lords thing.
       
      This morning James Naughtie desperately tried to politicise care for the elderly but the Scottish Care chap was having none of it. He did an able job of steering Naughtie back to the actual issues. Not sure I trust Naughtie – that level of desperation to wedge an issue doesn’t bode well. Is he seconded from Fox News?  
       
      That is my round up for the morning

    31. Robert Louis says:

      Handand shrimp,
       
      James Nughtie is London’s man in Scotland.  Trust doesn’t even enter the equation.

    32. Gordon Hay says:

      So the guy from uSwitch says his survey shows that if you reduce your household bills (by using the uSwitch service for which they get commission), your life will be so much better.
       
      I wonder if Solihull coming top has anything to do with the fact that that is where all the BBC staff decanted from London are now based.
       

    33. Well  Folks I  managed to get on   call Kaye  this  morning  (  learning  curve  )  but  w  have  to use  every  media  at  our  disposal     There is no  comparison Scotland  /  England   unless  its  Cumbria    /  Solihull  Nth  Yorkshire  /  Northumberland    They  must  be  in  there  to  create  Balance  lol

    34. rabb says:

      O/T
       
      I’ve been listening to Call Kaye (yes I know!) a few times recently when various indy topics have been discussed.
       
      Is it just me or is their a distinct change in attitude from the public around independence?

      The routine seems to be that they invite on “experts” with a unionist slant only to find them blown out the water by public callers who are all for independence.

      I sense a distinct swing towards independence from the Scottish public.

    35. Ellie says:

      Do you not rather think that this is a rather obvious trap that is currently being walked into?  Getting upset about what the Metro has printed?  Last night I read Iain Macwhirter’s latest column about the oil revenues true destination and that made my blood boil; it’s also the story that we NEED to get people talking about, and understanding, the opinion of the Metro on where the best place to live in the UK?  Not so much.

    36. DougieDouglas says:

      Stirlingshire, Perthshire and Argyll offering lower quality of life than a suburb of Birmingham?
      No offence to the good people of middle England but…
       
      YAWN
       
      WHATEVER
       
      ROLL OF THE EYES

    37. Morag says:

      Bwahahahaha.  I lived in Hertfordshire for over six years.  It wasn’t hell, but dearie me I was glad to get out.  Interestingly, I went back one Sunday afternoon about a year after I moved back to Scotland, nearly 20 years after I’d left Hertfordshire.  I just wanted to see what it was like, and one of my neighbours was still living in what had been the flat above mine.  I was so glad I’d got out.  The town had gone to hell in a handbasket, and the flats that had been occupied by young professionals starting off in life were now mostly rather seedy buy-to-rent student lets.
       
      I also lived over 18 years in Sussex, which doesn’t seem to be on their list but isn’t an awful lot different from Surrey (well it’s nicer than Surrey actually).  That was a decent enough place, and certainly a lot pleasanter than Hertfordshire.  I was still rejoicing greatly when I finally headed north for good.
       
      This morning I heard someone on local radio lamenting that the Borders, where I now live, had been rated “ninth worst place to live”.
       
      Someone is ‘avin a larf, right?  Every morning I look around me and thank God for where I am.  And it has bugger-all to do with broadband speed and hours of sunshine, matey, though I actually have no complaints about either.

    38. jim mitchell says:

      O/T but big news on the BBC news page, another major oil development announced!
      And from George Osborne we get, Chancellor George Osborne said: “This is a big investment that will create jobs.”
      That boys as sharp as a tack!

    39. faolie says:

      @call me dave and @another london dividend: the pound
       
      I was at the Business for Scotland meeting in Edinburgh last night. Great. If you get the chance go! About 90-100 people there. I asked Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp about the pound and what the big corporations would be saying to George about his threat to prevent us using the pound. Basically amounted to ‘George, you must be out of your f***ing gourd if you think you’re going to jeopardise the Scottish market and ‘- get this – ‘the 700,000 jobs in England that depend on this trade’.
       
      He predicted that the day after independence, Dave would be on steps of Downing Street congratulating us and telling everyone (ie pleading with the international money markets) that of course there will be a currency zone and nothing’s going to change.
       
      Sounded entirely plausible to me.

    40. Xercies says:

      Best places to live is not the happiest places since there was a report about a month ago that said all the Happiest places to live were in Scotland…so take that for what you will

    41. Balgayboy,  metro story journalist  had  shitty  upbringing ,  not  being  exposed  to  the  delights  of  D  C  Thomson   so dont  be to harsh  on him  //  in todays terms  it  would  be  see  s  child  cruelty  no tae  buy  yer bairn  / wain  the Dandy   /Beano  lol

    42. HandandShrimp says:

      I’m guessing that one of the Mail/Metro’s criteria for how awful a place is going to be is the likelihood of having a Scottish neighbour.

    43. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      You baffle me sometimes, readers, you really do.

      The piece isn’t about the Metro “doing down Scotland”. It’s an illustration, backed up with figures, that shows Scots get lower wages, have less disposable income, lower life expectancies and endure more crime (closely linked to poverty), despite contributing more to the UK than almost any other part of the country.

      Those stats don’t come from the Metro. We’re getting a raw deal out of the Union, not from a commuter freesheet. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    44. Morag says:

      A bit too subtle for this time in the morning, Stu.

    45. HandandShrimp says:

      Hi Stu
       
      Yes I agree, which was the gist of my first post – I just got caught up in the zeitgeist 🙂  
       
      This data is for Better Together to get upset about not us. They will of course ignore it so I gues we will have to hold their feet to the fire.
       

    46. Craig P says:

      How can Northumberland be top, but the Borders bottom? Pretty much identical places to live I would have thought.
       
      Anyway, I’ve lived in Argyll and Solihull. I remember coming back to visit my parents some time after I’d moved south and being stopped in my tracks by how beautiful Argyll is, and how much more pleasant the people are. I like the sea, mountains, fishing, sailing, hillwalking, wide open spaces and history, so it is no surprise I am biased towards Argyll. Anyway, I realised I missed the place and moved back to Scotland not that long after. The only thing Solihull had going for it (apart from the weather, I suppose) is employment opportunities – though if you can’t get a job in Argyll that’s quite a big incentive.

    47. balgayboy says:

      En Quest’s 4 billion development in Scottish waters is only one along with a few other multi-billion proposed developments coming down the pipeline on the East & West coast of Scotland.
      It’s all there for the taking if the people of Scotland can just rid themselves of their bizarre loyalty to the dead hand of Labour Party in Scotland and step forward to a more prosperous future.

    48. Illy says:

      @Stu:
      Lower Life expectancy and more crime are fair, but anything to do with money has to be corrected for the cost of living in the area.
       
      You might have gotten your message across better if you’d worked with the raw data they used, pulled out the “hours of sunlight” and “broadband speed” colomns, since those two are really bad metrics for anything, and re-done the analysis.
       
      Because the message is easily lost when it’s muddied by that (irrellivant) data.

    49. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Basically amounted to ‘George, you must be out of your f***ing gourd if you think you’re going to jeopardise the Scottish market and ‘- get this – ‘the 700,000 jobs in England that depend on this trade’.
       
      I don’t think the Unionists have quite twigged yet that the White Paper changes everything as the moment it is published the YES campaign can and will make it look like they (NO) are the ones who are evasive and not providing voters with ALL the answers…..
       
      And it’s not just voters in Scotland who need this information……surely the voters in England, Wales & Northern Ireland also need to know what happens if Scotland votes YES….
       
      I mean if we accept for the sake of argument that after a YES vote Westminister cuts of it’s nose to spite it’s face and says no to Currency Union…it has a fair few questions the Gidiot, the Ginger Rodent (and seeing as he reckons he’ll be Chancellor) Ed Balls to answer

      For example…..

      How will UK PLC cover that 9.9% fall in Tax Revenues ? When there is only a reduction of 9.3% to Expenditure ?

      How will the markets react to UK PLC’s borrowing requirements when a £1.5 Trillion Asset has just walked off the books ?

      Isn’t there a very real risk that if the rUK doesn’t enter a currency union it’s Credit Rating could be downgraded even further almost instantly ?

      So the Unionist will either have to defend pretty absurd illogical and indefensible postions or accept that the Scottish Govt position is logical and in many case desirable for the rest of the Uk too.  

    50. seoc says:

      A list of subjective opinions can only generate heat, but little light.

    51. handclapping says:

      Rev we are simple souls. Putting us 3 clicks away from the figures that you wish us to comment on is too difficult. Especially when I dont have a mouse to click with.
       
      Do to us what we should be doing to our fellow Scots; tell us how it is in simple terms we can understand.

    52. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Putting us 3 clicks away from the figures that you wish us to comment on”

      Huh? You’re ONE click away from the data tables, but no clicks at all are necessary to grasp the point: Scotland gets a raw deal in the UK.

    53. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “anything to do with money has to be corrected for the cost of living in the area”

      The data includes disposable income, average rents, fuel prices and other localised cost-of-living stats.

    54. Morag ,  The 1st time I ventured   south  69 / 70s  I  didnt  have  the  lucsury  of  a  flat    my  /  bro  /  me  stayed  in  a  workmans  hostel  (  old  army  barraks  )  in Baldock  both of us  worked  on the railway  he  a  crane  driver  /  me  I trained  as   Guard  Letchworth  //  Hitchen  later  on  we  both stayed  in  Biggleswade  I had come  back home  married   &  stayed in   Dundee  I was  ildle 3 weeks  worked in Cairdies  2 yrs  but had   to   return south for  a  better   life  Who wants  to  work  12 hour  shifts  here  for  shit  wages  when I  did  arrive  in   Biggleswade  I had  a  job  in 2  days  joinering  building  modules  for  schools  classrooms  /offices  /  toilets  I  have  no  doupt  that  a Independent  Scotland   inovation  / skills  we will  be  a  country  to  envey  I know  You  like  myself  meet  many  people  that  went  sth for  work  along with  peoples  fromm  all over the  world  Englands  gain  /Westminster  //  our  Pain

    55. Illy says:

      A true point made with bad data casts doubt onto the true point.
       
      And when they are using hours of sunlight (skews south) and broadband speed (skews big cities) as factors, it’s *obviously* bad data.
       
      As the rest looks like the higher wages are balanced by higher costs from the small sample of data they include, we can do better than this.
       
      We can do so much better than this petty sniping.

    56. handclapping says:

      Its not that Scotland gets a raw deal in the UK that is the casus belli, the crux is that Scotland does not have the freedom to address the raw deal, IMO.

    57. creigs1707repeal says:

      If Scotland is such a hell-hole to live why do we find that many of our southern cousins come here to retire?
       
      YES Scotland.

    58. HandandShrimp says:

      The difficulty that will still be present after the White Paper is that, for example, while the paper can lay out why a currency union is practical and in the interests of both Scotland and the rUK, Westminster can still lie and say it isn’t. Of course they will re-evaluate everything if there is a Yes vote but until there is they can say we won’t share a currency, we will block entry to the EU, we will block entry to the UN, we will charge of any air that crosses the rUK before entering Scottish territory Scotland will be invaded by Iran, Syria and North Korea all within the first week of independence.
       
      They say they want honest answers but they wouldn’t recognise honesty if it hit them in the coupon with a frying pan.

    59. a supporter says:

      “Lots of Scottish people seeing this will think, ‘it’s true, we are shit’. “
      Not true. Most Scots seeing that guff will see it as guff. The reality does not match the statistics.

    60. Thegreatbaldo , The rest of the  UK will find out  on the 19 th Sep 2014  like us just now  being lied  to  Welsh/ Nth Ireland  politicions know the  economic  situation  as  to  Scotlands  worth to the rUK  thts why  they  talk  us  down  their  in the  same  gravy  boa t  as  our  MP s  roll on Independence

    61. A2 says:

      “You baffle me sometimes, readers, you really do.”
       
      It’s also however about the Headline saying something different to the article (intentional or not) and reader reaction is an illustration that the headline is what sinks in regardless of what’s written beneath.

    62. balgayboy says:

      The illustrations are the eye catcher and the attached data I doubt would not be seriously investigated/reviewed/digested by the commuting recipients of which is the main distribution of this rag…and not for the first time giving their previous anti-independence journalism,.
      Therefore probably the reason for defensive comments by your respondents.

      I reckon the messenger has been used as a  door to a more purposeful agenda’

    63. Uncle Morris says:

      You’d be better off debunking the ridiculous report that considers “Scotland” to be a region, and therefore attributes the same crime rate across all Scottish locations. So Skye, which has no police, has the same crime rate as Glasgow.

    64. alexicon says:

      @Jim Mitchel & Others.
       
      Re. The £4 billion investment in the North Sea by Enquest.
      It is said that the construction and operating jobs will be around 20,000.
      What’s the betting most of that work will go down south and overseas, even when its up and running.
      Maybe we should blackmail the unionists’ and our Southern cousins with their jobs if they don’t back Independence.
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-24954495

    65. REV,  I  got  it  s  my  post  re  Morag  ,  in the 70 s  the Trades  Unions  keept  us  down  closed shops  ect  not  on  a  persons  ability  to do  a  job  (  I  started  my  working  life  as  a  Apprentice  Molder  )  Finnesh  workin life  a  joiner  I  would nt  have  had  that  freedom  if  like many Scots  did nt move South  the Goverments  of Westminster knew  what they were doing  then as Now

    66. chalks says:

      They will keep lying about a currency union.

      It’s up to us, to ask people why the uk government would act like this…..do they not value our partnership for 300 years?  Do they not want to work with us after independence?

      They play a dangerous game…as all it takes is a prominent certain yes man to turn round in a debate and ask these questions and it gets the mis-informed population thinking a different side to things.

      Why are Westminster SO against scotland being Scotland….are they hiding something from us? 

      I think the cat is out of the bag anyway like, but still…

    67. balgayboy says:

      @ Alexicon:
      It is for the Scottish company’s supported (hopefully) by an Independent Scottish Government to maximise the rewards and job creation of the En Quest development and also the future projects as well.
      We (Scotland) can do this without involving any other country other than the required services we desire and contract accordingly. This is standard throughout world in the oil & gas industry. 

    68. MochaChoca says:

      Just to put this in context the estimated 140m barrels in this field represents only 0.6% – 1.0% of the current estimated available reserves for the industry.
       
      Extraction from this one field at todays prices gives an average wholesale value of £377m pounds per annum over its 25yr lifespan (peaking at £1.23bn per annum).
       
      Production is due to come on-stream 2016-2017. Convenient or what?

    69. Les Wilson says:

      EnQuest’s new oil field will make it ever harder for Westminster to ALLOW Scotland to be free. Mark my words, we have much more negativety and scare tactics from them in every way they can think of. They are stuffed without us, and they know it. They are currently rushing new fields and exploration because they want to rip us off right up to May 2016.

      If there is ( god forbid ) a NO vote, they will just carry on ripping us off for as long as oil exists in Scottish waters. By then their gas fracking will be well established and they will WANT to let us go. We need to be confident and smart to deal with them.

      All and sundry, me included , are desperate to see the white paper, so does BT but for totaly different reasons. They will have an army of departments in the waiting ,to start ripping into it.

      No matter how positive it is for Scotland and it’s future. They are just watering at the mouth to start the negative spin. Be ready folks, and recognise that what they say is ONLY for Westminster aims. NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF SCOTLAND.

    70. Morag says:

      Huh? You’re ONE click away from the data tables, but no clicks at all are necessary to grasp the point: Scotland gets a raw deal in the UK.
       
      I think it’s a problem of perception.  We all feel we’re much happier living in Scotland, so we know the basic premise of the article being discussed is mince.
       
      We also know we can’t blame Westminster for hours of sunlight.  There are other things we can blame Westminster for, maybe broadband speeds.  Sorry, I think that point, as it was your main point, needed column space in your actual article.  “Scotland scores low because of x, y and Z, all of which are deprivations imposed on our country by the union.”
       
      I still don’t get it about the Borders and Northumberland.  Weather is similar and general amenities should be similar except for stuff like prescription charges, student fees and care for the elderly.  Why the big difference?

    71. MochaChoca says:

      The use of ‘Scotland wide’ figures for some of the data obviously conflates the low ranking for parts of Scotland which may perform poorly in other aspects, but the gist of the article is clear: “Scotland is shit, and if you think it needs subsidised by England here’s some ‘evidence’ to reinforce that”

    72. Atypical_Scot says:

      Compare Northumberland with Scottish Borders – The sunshine is an English nationalist.

    73. Holebender says:

      Instead of getting upset at USwitch or the Metro, people should be angry that the infrastructure which we all pay for (and which forms the basis of this survey’s results) is so unevenly distributed around our “United” Kingdom. It is inevitable in a democracy where the majority elect governments to protect their interests that resources will become concentrated in the most populous areas.

    74. pa_broon74 says:

      Rev Stu said “Those stats don’t come from the Metro. We’re getting a raw deal out of the Union, not from a commuter freesheet. Don’t shoot the messenger.
       
      It’s still a rag that perpetuates that raw deal, even when it is reporting the reasons for the existence of said raw deal.
       
      I wish I could stay and debate but I have to pack, I’m moving to Solihull. I heard its nice there…
       
      😉

    75. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Instead of getting upset at USwitch or the Metro, people should be angry that the infrastructure which we all pay for (and which forms the basis of this survey’s results) is so unevenly distributed around our “United” Kingdom. It is inevitable in a democracy where the majority elect governments to protect their interests that resources will become concentrated in the most populous areas.”

      Precisely.

    76. creigs1707repeal says:

      A currency union WILL most definitely happen because it is MORE in the rUK’s interest that it occurs than it is iScotland’s. They need a Sterling Zone more than iScotland would. And they know it (although they’re not telling). The last thing they would want is Scotland to adopt its own currency (which could be Sterling without currency union) for that would see the rUK deficit rise from 4.4% of GDP to around 10%, the rUK pound would plummet, interests rates in rUK would rocket whilst iScotland’s annual suroplus would ensure a strong independent currency and a reduction in its deficit/debt. The independent iScotland pound would become the “hardest currency in Europe” according to the Westminster economic adviser, Gavin McCrone.
       
       
      It would be economic suicide for the rUK not to ensure that surplus Scotland was in a currency union with rUK. So, should the Scottish Government’s plan B be to adopt our own separate currency, I wonder what Osborne’s plan B is for the rUK?

    77. Clarinda says:

      Rev Stu – “The bit they always leave out is who it’s better for” …. exactly!
      Is it too much to suggest comparisons with parasitic relationships where the ‘parasite’ lives off the ‘host’ in ways that harm the host but benefit the parasite which is unable to survive in such a satisfactory manner without the host resources. Certain relationships can exist for prolonged periods as the parasite takes plenty for it’s own needs but craftily not always to the complete detriment of the host who must be preserved to continue this one-sided better together relationship. Isn’t it perverse how the parasite/host idea has been high-jacked by those wilfully determined to flout the contribution/resource of Scotland.

    78. balgayboy says:

      Will be concentrated in the most populous areas….Ok….Population of Solihull 2011 according to the 2013 census was 206,700.

    79. raineach says:

      I have lived in 3 and worked in a further 4th, of the worst places in the UK and never been happier

    80. TJenny says:

      Re currency – I’m sure I read somewhere recently, that the IMF have stated that debt can’t be transferred to a foreign currency. Would that mean if WM didn’t let us use the pound, and we had our own currency (pegged to the Kroner/Dollar), then we couldn’t take any of the debt, but still be entitled to our share of the assets?
       
      Also, if you can’t hand Nuclear Weapons over to a foreign country, would that not mean Trident would have to leave Scotland in the period before indy in 2016?
       
      Providing we vote YES – fingers, eyes and legs crossed for that. 🙂

    81. Martainn says:

      The worst are in the wrong order, if you look at the data, Ayrshire is bottom ie. 1st worst not 10th worst. Even more depressing reading that way!

    82. Kev says:

      Another good indicator of the Union dividend would be to simply look at the stats of how many Scots have moved to England and vice versa and that can be found here (tho I can’t seem to find a more up-to-date version):
       
      http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files1../stats/op11-tab9a.pdf
       
      Basically, 16% of people born in Scotland have moved to England, compared to just 0.8% the other way. I wonder why Scots are 20 times more likely to want to move down south as English born folk are to move up here, can’t just be the climate surely? Well the stats on Wales kinda prove that theory wrong too…

    83. Brotyboy says:

      Rev, sorry if I set the tone in my posts early on in the thread.  I got the point, but a quick skeck at the data showed it was flawed.  

    84. Brotyboy says:

      O/T Were any of the three guys in the back of The Ship last night Wingsmen?

    85. james s says:

      I find this article incredible.

      My wife and I have recently moved to one of the “worst” places on the list, Strathspey. To describe such an amazing, beautiful, happy and thus far sunny part of the world in such terms is beyond contempt.
       
      After 18 years in what was considered a nice part of England I have to say there is no comparison in terms of quality of life, to such an extent that my English wife was manning a Yes Scotland stall in Grantown last week. She is so enthused by the people, the country, the schools, the wilderness etc she’s a definite Yes for next year. As am I.

      You have to wonder sometimes if the journalists and commentators in England have ever actually ventured out of their little urban world.

    86. Gray says:

      The article is quite correct in its assumptions. Scotland is a worse place to live in economic terms.  It shows poorer average incomes and higher costs than other areas of the UK. Many recent political commentators have suggested that the economic argument is where the referendum will be decided, this type of analysis can only benefit the Yes campaign.
       
      Nowhere does the article quantify on happiness, friendliness and spectacular scenery.

    87. Moone says:

      Should also be noted that Paul Dacre, the editor of the Daily Heil and long time lover of Scots and all things Scottish(not), in fact is the owner a Scottish estate no less. Kinda makes you wonder about the motives for his vile anti Scottish articles.

    88. Patrician says:

      The graphic in some small way shows up the problem for the internationalist socialists and their argument for helping the poor granny living in Liverpool or Newcastle. The rub on that argument is that the people who have benefitted most from the oil money are middle-class and live in the South of England.  

    89. Jamie Arriere says:

      Why no Archive.is link to this shitty article in a Daily Mail-owned bogroll?

    90. theycan'tbeserious says:

      Anything to do with helping to justify the HS2 rail link to Birmingham?

    91. Andrew Watson says:

      The most strikingly absurd part of this map is the fact that Northumberland is appearently one of the best places to stay in the UK yet the Scottish Borders is somehow one of the worst? From my experience lives in the two areas are pretty damn similar, only difference being the folk in the North-East of England are totally ignored by their government. They’ve even place the Northumbria dot and the Borders dot all of ten miles apart. This map is pure mince.

    92. Morag says:

      Still got “ochone, ochone” coverage on the BBC Borders radio news bulletin this morning.  The whole thing is complete mince and the BBC shouldn’t have been giving it the time of day.

    93. john king says:

      JR Ewan says
      “They have missed out Shetland which gets voted the happiest place in uk.”

      You might be the happiest place but it’ll take you three weeks to download a photie of our beloved Secretary of State for Scotland, stick that in your salmon smoker 🙂

    94. Paula Rose says:

      Yes Rev – get all your points, but please don’t let people know that Angus is the best place in the world, it will be ruined.

    95. Taranaich says:

      @Kev: I wonder why Scots are 20 times more likely to want to move down south as English born folk are to move up here, can’t just be the climate surely?
       
      It isn’t a question of “want,” so much a question of feeling like they have to. From High School to University, I was consistently told that if I really wanted to get a good job in the arts, I’d have to move to London: after all, there’s apparently nothing up here, even the most populous city which is 40 miles from my home. It was only in the later years of University that the very idea of artists getting work in Glasgow was considered a possibility. Now I’m quite confident about getting a good job in my homeland. Many of my colleagues and classmates felt the same: for every one that actually wanted to go to London, ten just felt bitterly resigned, and a few even rather angry about it.

    96. Margaret Brogan says:

      As someone who lives in North Ayrshire, what a lot of laugh out loud nonsense! Beautiful scenery, beaches, Glasgow just up the road, islands just across the water, nice folk, dear me, need say no more! Well maybe, the Hydro’s really good just now, Seamill, not Glasgow.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top