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Wings Over Scotland

Another surprising development

Posted on August 31, 2017 by

Last year:

That’ll definitely have been done, then, right?

Who could ever have suspected, etc?

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    1. 31 08 17 14:57

      Another surprising development | speymouth

    214 to “Another surprising development”

    1. Walter Scott says:

      Britloons don’t care

    2. Croompenstein says:

      The sloping shoulders of the UK 🙂

    3. louis.b.argyll says:

      Liars, cheats and bully-boys.

      You CAN trust the Tories…
      but only to LIE.

    4. Truth says:

      And why would/should they?

      This is precisely what you should expect when you vote no to having your own country.

      If only the yoons could actually waken up and take the blinkers off.

    5. Col says:

      They have done and will damage the sector until they have ensured that they will be still in control into the distant future. It’s up to us to make sure that that does not happen.

    6. Proud Cybernat says:

      As I have frequently said, Westminster will say (not do) ANYTHING to hold onto Scotland and our resources. This is just one more of their many, many promises/lies to the people of Scotland.

      In saying that, the British nationalists just love it when Tories break promises to Scotland.

      Gallas – The 40 Year Fleecing of Scotland’s oil wealth by Westminster

    7. dandy dons 1903 says:

      The Brutish way of course is all about pinching others resources and wealth, the uk union/aka sham is a case in point.

    8. Snode1965 says:

      And yet the Aberdeen Loons continue to vote Tory…hell knock it into them.

    9. Brian Powell says:

      It’s what Aberdeen voted for, then again in GE and Council elections.

    10. Brian Powell says:

      Similar stuff coming for the fishing industry and farming in the NE.

    11. Effijy says:

      Yes we know we can trust the Tory Party in Scotland.
      They never let you down. Anything promised is automatically forgotten and buried all UK Britnat outlets.

      The Vow– Ha Ha,

      We love Scotland- Which will be why they tried to steal £7 Billion from our new Tax powers.

      We will work with Scotland on Brexit. What a howler!

      Mrs May promised to reduce immigration to 10’s of Thousands while in charge of that Dept. I believe figure was 330,000 immigrants.

      Mrs May stated clearly that there will be no election until the 5 years had expired. That was just before the Election.

      How about not selling off the NHS when they have another £64 Billion chunk about to go to the private sector.

      Anyone remember the promise not to increase Taxes?

      Their Labour counterparts are precious too.
      Kelly was on Radio Shortbread among other things decrying Scotland’s NHS while his party are diving NHS Wales into the graveyard.

      NHS Wales performs about 20% below NHS Scotland.

      NHS Wales waiting times for operations should be no more than
      6 months, however, those waiting over 1 Year has increased
      by over 400% in the last 5 years of Labour Management!

      Vote Labour, Vote for incompetence.
      Edinburgh Trams, Holyrood Parliament Building, Bedroom Tax, etc

    12. Giving Goose says:

      Brutishness at it’s worst and most cynical.

      Brutish by name. Brutish by nature.

    13. sinkya says:

      In 2014 Cameron told Aberdeen that voting Yes risked £200billion of oil revenues yet Yoons keep harping on about White Paper predictions.
      There is a Channel 5 TV programme tonight at 9pm just for
      SFA linesman and part time MP Douglas Ross.

    14. Marie Clark says:

      Who knew eh. Why should anyone be surprised at this. Typical tory bilge. Promise you the moon, and deliver SFA. It’s the tory way.

      Mair fool the loons and quines that vote for these creatures. They’ll maybe learn someday, but I won’t be holding my breath.

    15. Macart says:

      Definitely another Q.E.D moment.

    16. frogesque says:

      What folk fail to understand is that no successive government is constrained by the actions of its predecessor.

      So that makes it alright. Right?!

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      Can’t do the day job (can’t do Brexit either mind but definitely can’t do the day job)

    18. Ken500 says:

      The P & J promoted the unionists liars. The owner is a Dundee Tory. People voted Tory. Suckers. Multimillionaire farmers getting £Hundred/thousands in subsidies. Not declared in financial interests and pleading poverty. Aberdeen City £1.2Billion in debt. Wasting £200Million on a grotesque monstrosity, no one wanted. Now cutting £125Million. Cutting jobs and services. Re arranging council meeting to suit a two job Tory. To keep them in power. While Dundee gets a brilliant renovation. Thanks to the SNP council. The P & J rubbish wasters.

    19. Les Wilson says:

      Ah another promise,again.
      We cannot trust ANYTHING Westminster says, yet idiots listen to them.

      They are thieves and scoundrels no less, red or blue, hardly a difference.
      They only care about how to swell their pockets, that is the only reason Scotland is important to them, it more than helps to keep them living in the style they are accustomed to.

      Why, oh why, are Scots not outraged.
      F… sake, wake up Scotland.
      Kick them out and better our lives and those of future generations.

    20. Too busy focused on the failure of Brexit

    21. Marcia says:


      The majority of the Thomson family and private shareholders live outwith Scotland.

    22. Petra says:

      ‘Tories clueless on developing the North Sea. SNP has a plan they could copy.’

      ‘Why were tens of billions in oil revenues lost by UK government? Would they have made Scotland seem too wealthy in September 2014?’

      ‘A ploy to undermine the case for Scottish independence as Oil companies making more at $50 per barrel than they did at £100 per barrel yet the UK Government is not taxing them.’

    23. Proud Cybernat says:

      A litany of British nationalist lies:

      The Wee Black Book (The Movie)

      You YES yet?

    24. Andy-B says:

      If we’re being honest Westminster can do what it wants regarding oil and gas, for our input on the matter only falls on deaf ears. We have no real say as to how our North sea resources are squandered.

      I’m also pretty sure Westminster doesn’t take heed over the concerns of Holyrood either.

    25. Calum McKay says:

      Sounded good at the time no doubt, but as with most things related to Cameron, Cameron’s deeds, actions and outcomes never matched his promises.

      One could, should draw the conclusion he just made statements regards Scotland on the spur of the moment, with no intention of seeing them through.

      In that respect he has a lot in common with all his predecessors and his successor!

    26. Petra says:


      The Tories response to Momentum:

      ‘Oh my fckn Nanny!!! Conservatives launch Activate to capture the youth vote #forthePrivilegednotYou.’

      ‘Theresa May’s Nasty Nazi Tory Youth want to “Gas the Chavs”‘

    27. manandboy says:

      Westminster brutally kicks Scotland repeatedly, but the Scottie dog wags its tail every time.

      No voters in Scotland seem to have an infinite capacity to forget what the British Establishment, operating through Westminster’s unionist parties, is like, viz. grasping and greedy and occasionally partial to a bit of ethnic cleansing and mass murder. In modern times it has settled for robbing the poor and distributing the money to the already obscenely wealthy. They named it Austerity.

      There must be an explanation for this collective unionist amnesia. It’s called brainwashing, which neutralizes both memory and free will by the insertion of a controlling idea which operates without the host being aware of it. In the UK today, such an idea is scorned as being ridiculous, demonstrating further the effectiveness of the propaganda.

      For centuries, critics of Religion have cited indoctrination as being responsible for many of the tensions between religions and religious groups. In so far as this may be true, the experience has singularly failed to alert said critics to the political use of indoctrination, which is known better as brainwashing, through overwhelming State propaganda, principally through the medium of Television, Radio, and the Press.

      The fact that 99% of mainstream media is hostile to the idea of Scottish Independence and never ceases its campaign of propaganda, is probably the biggest single reason, alongside political manipulation, for keeping Scotland in the Union and maintaining its status as little more than a colony and a region of England.

      With Brexit, Scotland is about to receive another vicious kicking from the Westminster Government.

      Love your dog. Vote only SNP.

    28. Dr Jim says:

      Let’s develop our economy even more says the First Minister of Scotland in a speech to business leaders today

      Let’s not say the Unionists….and they say it one after another

      No Surrender’s turned into No Improvement for this years slogan

    29. John W says: Cameron might not have lived up to expectations as usual , but I find this terrifying !

    30. Capella says:

      Nicola gave a major speech on the economy at AeroSystems in Prestwick today.

      John Beattie tried to get a report in his lunch time radio programme. Unfortunately the BBC reporter at the site was unable to get a connection to BBC in Glasgow.


    31. Robert Graham says:

      And so it continues , the daily drip , drip of total guff from the media , that dick Cochrane in the telegraph , you know that widely read publication with a northern edition , is banging on about the monumentos deficit , in the letters section we have the usual it’s a complete waste of money this ECK vanity project ,
      I give up if they cant find a doom and gloom story then they bloody well invent one , well we cant have any progress being made here in stupid jock land or they might think they can run things themselves .
      Depression on top of a catastrophe with impending failure of every bloody service known it’s all the SNPs fault , and dont forget global warming , or now as its known climate change.

      Anyone care to write tomorrows headline or do we just follow the tried and trusted shit they have been re cycling over the last three years we all know the script , education, health , police , economy any eight from ten , it dosent matter its all shit here in jolly jockland .and we better not bloody forget it .

    32. Capella says:

      @ John W – you’re first link the the newsnet article was very appropriate and interesting. Is Scotland a colony?
      So I’ll copy it here for anyone who missed it:

    33. manandboy says:

      The Road to Independence is currently littered with criticism of the Scottish Government, the SNP, and Nicola Sturgeon. What are we to make of this phenomenon? Is it simply a reflection of the frustration and disappointment sweeping through the Yes Movement since GE17, or is there perhaps that there is now a lot more underlying stress in Scottish and UK politics pumped up by the Brexit shambles with its naked threat to Scotland’s well-being?

      Or is it Cruise Ship Girnin’? You know what I mean. There’s a cruise ship with 5000 passengers on board, all set for the voyage of their dreams, but after a few days at sea which has seen some rough conditions which no one enjoys, but some of the passengers are so not happy it leads them to look for someone to blame. We can all do it.

      Thinking that they know better than the Captain, and his crew, the unhappy passengers then voice their dissatisfaction with the route taken, the timing of the departure and the fact that they weren’t consulted about these and other matters affecting their personal experience of the voyage. Soon they can talk of nothing else. Need I go on?

      Independence. We’ve started, let’s make sure we finish. There will be no mutiny.

    34. John W says:

      John W says:
      Capella @2.52
      Thanks Capella , I thought it was a good piece to .

    35. Bob Mack says:

      Good God Almighty. Most of these Tories couldn’t find their seat at a dinner without a place name on the table, yet people have deluded themselves into thinking they are somehow competent, in spite of all the evidence contradicting that belief.

      I despair. They are a shambles all down the line and everything they touch turns to rubble.When oh when will people waken up from their self imposed slumber.

    36. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy-B says: 31 August, 2017 at 2:04 pm:

      “… We have no real say as to how our North sea resources are squandered.”

      I believe you miss the point there Andy-B.

      “WE”, have no North Sea Resources, “THEY”, have all the North Sea, AND the West of Shetland Resources. Every halfpenny of those resources is classified by Westminster as being extracted from the United Kingdom’s, “Extra-Regio-Territory”.

      And further examination of what, “Extra-Regio-Territory”, translates to in common, or garden, English language is:-

      “Extra-Regio: the part of the UK economic activity that is not allocated to a specific region.
      Extra-Regio includes „Continental Shelf? activity relating to offshore oil and gas extraction,
      UK embassies overseas and armed forces stationed abroad

      I kid you not. That is the definition as quoted from a report by, “The UK Statistics Authority:-—official-statistics-in-the-context-of-the-referendum-on-scottish-independence.pdf

      I have not read it all through as it is just a wee part of a larger bit of research I’m doing just now. However, some of what I have read on that site is interesting.

    37. ronnie anderson says:

      31 August, 2017

      More photo’s of last nights convoy , photos 1/3 German visitors who support Scottish Independence 7/8 my Wife.

    38. Petra says:

      @ John W says at 2:38 pm ………. This is the clip I meant to post !


      Thanks for that John – hellish or what? Colonised, raped and pillaged …. AGAIN!

      The Repeal Bill is the Death Star. Spot on.

      I wonder if Gordon Ross could put together an article specifically for Wings? Or on the otherhand it may be difficult for him because he can’t name contacts.

      Meanwhile as he says ”take a look at the Oil industries own magazines.”

    39. Andy-B says:

      The vile mentality of the Tories, they start them young.

    40. msean says:

      They’re Tories.Not surprised at all.

    41. msean says:

      They are Tories.Not surprised at all.

    42. Andy-B says:

      Robert Peffers.

      Thank you for the interesting link.

    43. msean says:

      They are Tories. Not surprised at all.

    44. colin alexander says:

      Mr Cameron also signed up to The Vow. How did that turn out? Did he keep those promises?

      To detractors who cast doubts on where my loyalties lie:

      From the Evening Times:

      colin alexander 19th April (2017) 10:01 am
      It was the likes of Red Tories like Tom Harris and “I did not vote for the Iraq War” John Robertson with their love-in with the Blue Tories that destroyed the Labour Party.

      Voting with the Tories to cut benefits for the poor. Backing the Tories in Better Together and peddling all the Project Fear stuff.

      Good riddance to them.

      Glasgow backed independence. It will do again.

      People here don’t want to be ruled by Tory WM Govts with their disgusting policies such as the Rape Clause and Bedroom Tax.”

    45. Neil Cook says:

      Aberdeen gets what it voted for. Been here 35 years and still get ‘up here stealing our jobs I just laugh and say thst I’m a missionary here to educate you but you are just too thick to do the job on your own. They really are the me me me society and deserve this crap. Yeah hell mend them

    46. TJenny says:

      Ronnie – Hi, I’m getting a ‘content unavailable’ message from your Facebook link. Is it maybe posted in a closed group?

    47. Auld Rock says:

      Hi All, Considering Norway’s share of the North Sea Reserves is roughly the same as Scotland’s does anybody have any idea just how much Norway has banked compared to the UK in the last couple of years of Westminster VANDALISM of the industry? You can email me at: asterix[stop]at[stop]valhalla[at]gmail[stop]com

      Auld Rock

    48. Robert Peffers says:

      @John W says: 31 August, 2017 at 2:32 pm:

      “Cameron might not have lived up to expectations as usual , but I find this terrifying.”

      Why do you suddenly find it terrifying, John?

      After all, I’m in my 80s and I’ve known all my adult life what the truth has been since 1 May 1707.

      The Truth is that under Scots law, since at least 1320, (but was claimed in 1320 to go back even before 1320), that the crown was not sovereign in Scotland because the people of Scotland are legally sovereign.

      That is quite different under English law as in England the crown is still legally sovereign even although the crown was forced to legally conceded to delegate their Divine Right to rule to the parliament of England during the English Parliament’s, “Glorious Revolution”, in 1688.

      So legally, in the three country Kingdom of England, the Crown is still legally sovereign but has delegated their sovereign powers to the Parliament of England and Westminster passes legislation as, “The Crown”, while they still call the Queen of England, “The Sovereign”, or more formally, “Her Sovereign Majesty”. But if you are charged in an English court it is Her Majesty or The Crown vs Mr Joe Public.

      In Scotland the Crown is not legally sovereign and that concept has no place in Scots law.

      But what is the actual way things are being done in the so called United Kingdom?

      Well in the first place, according to Westminster, there really isn’t a United Kingdom with two equally sovereign partner kingdoms any more. They make the false claim that the Treaty of Union, “Extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”.

      However, even that is incorrect for they have split up the two kingdoms by country but only devolved the powers of Westminster to three of them and there isn’t an elected official, or legal, Parliament of England. Yet they operate EVEL, (English Votes for English Laws), yet how can there be English votes when no one is elected as a member of the parliament of England?

      So why are you suddenly terrified when they tell you that the parliament the unelected as such de facto parliament of England set-up as a DEVOLVED part of the parliament they now operate as the de facto parliament of England is not sovereign because the parliament they operates as the de facto parliament of England devolved its sovereign powers to Holyrood and the court the unelected de facto parliament of England set up as their supreme court rules that the sovereign monarch who delegates her sovereign powers to the parliament of England has sovereignty over the parliament it set up in Scotland?

      So, to boil all that down for you it stands like this – they are correct that Holyrood is NOT sovereign but are wrong that Westminster is. The real truth is that while Holyrood is NOT sovereign the people of Scotland are legally sovereign.

      Now all it needs is for the Scottish government to get a specific mandate from a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland to tell Westminster to sling its hook as We, the sovereign people of Scotland are delegating our sovereignty to Holyrood and the SG.

      As the people are legally sovereign then only the people can say who should exercise their sovereignty and while a majority of them vote for a unionist party we, to use a technical term, hae nae chance ava.

    49. sinky says:

      Remember in 2014 when David Cameron told Aberdeen that if they voted NO they would jeopardise £200billion of oil revenues that would flow from being part of the UK.

      Yet yoons go on about the White Paper oil predictions.

      Meanwhile Channel 5 TV has programme at 9 pm to-night especially for SFA linesman and part time linesman Douglas Ross

    50. manandboy says:

      John W

      If Gordon Ross’s sources are correct and his analysis sound, then we have a game changer on our hands in that, as we speak, Scotland’s oil reserves are being stolen from under our noses and we are paying for the theft in our taxes.

    51. manandboy says:

      The Colony piece by Alf Baird raises again the issue of residence as the main qualification to vote in a Scottish referendum. Reading the article and the comments attached re-enforces my own opinion that it was a fatal mistake. Apparently, Nicola now accepts that the SG was badly advised.
      (“This is why I suggest the UN could be brought in to advise on the process, as clearly the Scottish Government officials advising the FM (whilst still working for the administrative Power!) seem to have worked a fast one. In her recent Stanford lecture, the FM actually admitted as much, saying the franchise was so open primarily because her officials advised her that ‘it would be too complicated’ to do otherwise,”) (Alf Baird)

    52. Phronesis says:

      Economic vandalism on all fronts but now it’s not only Scotland who will have its economic well being sidelined.

      Long term is a qualitative construct – the PMs tenure with the ‘bumbling’ UK government will correlate with Scotland’s inevitable independence in the ‘long term’.
      Sooner or later it is in the interest of the remnants of UKOK to observe a modus vivendi with an autonomous Scotland – a voluntary acceptance of the limits of this unequal relationship and that Scotland rejects absolute pauperisation under WM as it lurches towards the Brexit cliff edge (another expert opinion – Mr Farage will be outraged)

      ‘That matters to other strategic world powers such as the US, Japan, China, India and Russia, as well as to trading partners and investors, much more than Britain will matter when it becomes an isolated, average, medium-sized economy. The UK is now the world’s 12th largest economy if measured using the right metric of PPP exchange rates and not the 5th largest (when measured by misleading nominal exchange rates) as Brexiteers keep insisting…

      ‘In short, Brexit will not result in any net economic benefit to Britain. It will result in a significant net loss which the bumbling UK government will simply have to do its best to minimise. That is the unfortunate task the current government has – i.e. not to negotiate the best Brexit deal for Britain, but to come up with the ‘least worst’ as economists like to say’

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      A Tory a day keeps the peasants at bay.

    54. yesindyref2 says:

      A Tory a day ruins your work, rest and play.

      I have more 🙂

    55. galamcennalath says:

      A promise to Scots is worthless. Consider the promises of 2014! In fact, perhaps they are meant to be broken. Part of strategy to demoralise.

      A promise to the English – that must be honoured. Now consider the ridiculous promises made for EURef! They are trying soooo hard to deliver them, even if impossible in practice.

      Wise up … the NO half of Scotland!

    56. heedtracker says:

      Its giant issues like this one that show how powerful UKOK media really is, in that they bury it all. And then they focus almost entirely on tory clowns like Teresa, waffling away for teamGB, floods in America, Princess Diana, sorry, the Peoples Princess. Or just plain old crud like,

      ‘You are a danger to civilisation’: gay politicians share their experiences
      Foreign minister Alan Duncan and former Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale some of LGBT MPs speaking in BBC programme. Kezia Dugdale said coming out was ‘really difficult, I didn’t have complete control’. Photograph: Murdo Macleod for the Guardian

      Pretty much the last half hour of BBC r4 PM tory gimp news.

    57. Fireproofjim says:

      And this is the day thatTotal announced the first gas from the Eradour/Glenlivet field.
      56,000 barrels of oil equivalent which will produce at that rate for at least ten years.
      Over $2 million dollars a day value. In ten years over $7 billion.
      Not that Scotland will see a penny of the taxes on that. (At least a billion dollars.)
      Every penny will be swallowed up in the bottomless greedy pit which is the UK Treasury.
      Oh! You No voting fools!

    58. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I finally looked that word up: “a sexual fetishist who likes to be dominated and who dresses in a leather or rubber body suit with mask, zips, and chains

      So, what’s your point?


    59. yesindyref2 says:

      Totally and absolutely OT by the way, Collins dictionairies really are the best. When I went to work in Germany I had a wee gem, and it was great, you could say exactly what you meant in German from the phrases it translated – either way. Whereas Langescheidts and some other American one, people really struggled “My mountain is on top of the world” instead of “fantastic”. I have the French, Spanish, Italian, Latin even and a couple of others – also do the job.

    60. heedtracker says:

      Auld Rock says:
      31 August, 2017 at 4:08 pm
      Hi All, Considering Norway’s share of the North Sea Reserves is roughly the same as Scotland’s does anybody have any idea just how much Norway has banked compared to the UK in the last couple of years of Westminster VANDALISM of the industry? You can email me at: asterix[stop]at[stop]valhalla[at]gmail[stop]com

      Auld Rock

      A lot, a very very lot. And Norway has also built one of the world’s biggest shipbuilding and steelmaking industries today. Rig building too ofcourse.

      Meanwhile, as Scots oil and gas is completely looted, Scottish heavy industry was destroyed, under both blue and red tory UK govs.

      Saddest thing to see in Scotland today, in once great shipbuilding areas like Clydebank and Greenock, crappy wee halls with union jacks flapping on their roofs.

      “But they build north sea oil platforms in the far east shipyards because they were cheaper, rule Britannia!”

    61. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy-B says: 31 August, 2017 at 3:36 pm:

      “Thank you for the interesting link.

      The worrying thing, Andy-B, is the large number of people who do not know that fact.

      That includes all those newspaper reporters who keep telling Scots that when the price of oil falls the Scottish economy is suffering a tragic loss.

      As Scotland doesn’t get any of the oil & gas revenues but depends, until recently, entirely upon the Block Grant that Westminster decides to grant Scotland then none of the revenue collected from Scotland affects the block grant.

      It is downright lies that Scotland’s economy is hit when oil & gas prices fall. One reason I was tracking down an official explanation of Extra-Regio-Territory was because I had a couple of unionist supporters who called me a liar when I told them every penny of oil & gas revenue not only goes to the treasury directly but is not counted as revenue from Scotland.

      I’ll be carefully reading the rest of the article as I’ve been searching for the official UK explanations of how the system works against Scotland for a long time.

    62. heedtracker says:

      England gives Scotland Barnett, out of niceness? Wales does not float on oil and gas, now they are asking why they’re underfunded.

    63. Andy-B says:


      This is also quite interesting.

      “Given that Scotland is not a sovereign state, it has no effective maritime boundaries; and any claims Scotland may assert are subsumed as part of claims made by the United Kingdom.”

      We are not seen by the world as sovereign.

    64. Robert Graham says:

      The third round of negotiations with the EU progress so far ” 0 ”

      How many Days left to negotiate ,the tories dont care because they intend to upend the table and blame the EU .

      its been 277 days since mayhem fired the starting gun , since then we have had an election , westminster is still on their holybags, in spite of being warned about the urgency of these time limited talks the cabinet are marked absent the only visible one is david davis.

      our media as usual follow the tory line of it’s those pesky europeans at fault , Then up pops that relic from the victorian era rees fog talking in such cultured tones and drawing attention to the ridiculous demands by those over the channel.

      The news from the EU seems to have been relegated to third spot behind , the floods in texas and remembrance of diana , while the other stories are interesting and sad I would have thought the EU and the outcome of discussions that is going to have a lasting effect on everyone here would have taken precedence.

      Well i guess someone has pressed the stupid button , feed them shit and keep them in the dark as per usual , not a mention of the pound – euro exchange rate being offered at some airport exchanges as 85c to the pound , aye dont scare the horses eh .

    65. Capella says:

      @ Andy-B – Wikipedia is very editable. The more political the topic, the more wary you need to be about the truth. I first realised that when I followed the 2008 US Primaries.

      Most malicious edits are corrected within minutes. But you may come across “facts” which are left to stand if the original editor doesn’t fully understand the material.

      No idea if this applies to your link above. Someone with more knowledge will be able to tell us. Craig Murry for instance is an expert on maritime boundaries.

    66. heedtracker says:

      We are not seen by the world as sovereign.

      Perhaps but UK gov does explain that the drop in oil barrel price means Scotland has a £15+bn deficit.

      Its not just UK gov, its everyone that really matters what scream this oil price catastrophe for Scotland, UKOK hacks and yoon culture.

      But are they being honest?

      “A key driver for this divergence has undoubtedly been the downturn in the North Sea. Whilst North Sea output doesn’t actually enter the Scottish figures (instead it covers the onshore economy only), the supply chain that supports the oil and gas industry does.”

      This lot seemed rather excited about the coming Scots recession, a year or two ago.

    67. yesindyref2 says:

      That walesonline article is a classic. Because it’s Leanne Wood of the PC, Labour and the LibDems jump on her for saying Wales is underfunded by £1.2 billion. And yet if I can find it:

      Carwyn Jones: “We know Wales is underfunded by £350m a year


      We need to have a funding formula that is fair to all the nations and regions of the UK.

      I don’t think he’s going to want LESS money!

    68. Robert Peffers says:

      @manandboy says: 31 August, 2017 at 4:31 pm:
      “If Gordon Ross’s sources are correct and his analysis sound, then we have a game changer on our hands in that, as we speak, Scotland’s oil reserves are being stolen from under our noses and we are paying for the theft in our taxes.”

      Sometimes I wonder why I bother, manandboy!

      I’ve been posting the facts for years that as far as Westminster goes Scotland has no oil or gas and never has had any since the Lothian’s Shale Industries folded.

      Every drip of oil and whiff of gas is accounted by Westminster as coming from a territory that Westminster has decreed belongs to no specifically designated United Kingdom, “Region”. In other words it belongs to the UK.

      They did this when oil was first extracted and have ever since taken every penny of oil & gas revenues while telling us it come from, “United Kingdom Extra-Regio-Territory”.

      On this very thread I have posted a link to the official United Kingdom organisation that defines how the United Kingdom does its accounts and the definition of what is meant by, “United Kingdom Extra-Regio-Territory”.

      What more proof do you need that officially not one drop of oil or whiff of gas from either the North Sea or West of Shetland is Scottish oil & gas?

      Here it is again: –—official-statistics-in-the-context-of-the-referendum-on-scottish-independence.pdf

      That’s the link to the website that officially tells you how the UK classes oil & gas revenues and here’s a dictionary definition of the term, “Extra-Regio-Territory”.

      ““Extra-Regio: the part of the UK economic activity that is not allocated to a specific region.
      Extra-Regio includes Continental Shelf? activity relating to offshore oil and gas extraction,
      UK embassies overseas and armed forces stationed abroad.”

      That is the truth – The UK government has claimed all oil & gas as belonging to the UK and NOT Scottish.

    69. yesindyref2 says:

      Straight away that’s shite in Wiki. Some is devolved:

      “Marine Scotland is responsible for the integrated management of Scotland’s seas.

      Its purpose is to manage Scotland’s seas for prosperity and environmental sustainability, working closely with our key delivery partners and others.”

      As far as I know the SG has responsibility for at least the 12nm territorial waters, and I think for such as smuggling and fishery protection, also has some or shared responsibility for the EEZ of up to 200 nm – though I’d have to check that.

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      I should ahve said “partial” responsibility for the 12 nm – such as defence is reserved to Westminster, and other. And for oil rigs if you occasionally look at, you’ll see one of the OPVs doing a smooch around.

    71. galamcennalath says:

      Robert Graham says:

      … progress so far ” 0 ” …. the tories dont care because they intend to upend the table and blame the EU ….. media as usual follow the tory line of it’s those pesky europeans at fault …

      That does seem to be the most probably explanation of what we see.

      They sold this ‘cake and eat it’ nonsense to the Leave voting public and they have to be seen to try.

      It is just possible the Tories are stupid and conceited enough to believe the ‘impossible deal’ is their birth right as supreme beings. Though as someone pointed out the other day, they professional advisors won’t be fools.

      And then there are so many (inc Labour now) calling for the soft outcome. Perhaps the arguments about hard versus soft are still going on even within the Tories!

      However, on balance I too suspect the strategy is hard exit, blame the foreigners, all combined by an element of good old fashioned national elitism.

      Which is fine. Crash and burn Brexit, IndyRef2, YES win, and let the silly bu99ers get on with it!

      The softer it is, the longer the transition period, the more ‘normal’ that transition period is, … the more difficult it will be for Scotland to get out pre next Holyrood election.

      Do I feel guilty about wishing a hard Brexit on the South British? Not much, they voted for hard right parties in the 2015 GE then Brexit in 2016. Their fault, not ours!

    72. manandboy says:

      A tiger in a cage has only one big problem.

      Just like Scotland.

      Over to the Scottish Government, the leadership of the SNP, and the Scottish Electorate.


    73. Dan Huil says:

      Britnat arrogance and ignorance will result in a hard brexit. These britnat eejits actually expect Scotland to follow their [England’s] xenophobic attitude towards Europe. Nae chance, mons amis.

    74. schrodingers cat says:

      agree with gala

      the harder and more sudden the brexit, the quicker the increase in support for yes

      oct 8th looks like a red letter day

      re NI border, the options put forward by the uk are
      1. post uk customs officials in dublin
      2. the roi should leave the eu.
      the fact the uk propose this just shows how deluded westminster is

      the only real option ie to put the border in the irish sea was opposed by the DUP, surprise surprise and would be a death nell for this government and his own back benchers would crucify him

      so david davis is doing the only thing he can, ie prevaricate about the bush, continue to evade the issue etc.

      Im sure he would like to make a deal, but if he cant get passed these first 3 eu conditions (final bill, eu citizens etc) then there can be no talks about any transition deal which is the only thing which will cushion the brexit landing.

      so on the 8th oct when the eu says, no deal, what does west minster do then? walk?

      i’m not sure it will, that would by definition bring a large amount of clarity to what brexit will actually means, something that has been avoided until now, even if they blame the eu for intransigence, that wont stop the clarification of brexit for the voters or business.

      I think they will go back to the negotiating table and continue to try and hammer out a deal, one which they know they cant make, just to buy more time. no choice really. but the delay and increased doubt about getting a transition deal will continue to damage the economy

      i’d love to see a full scottish poll after the 8th oct

    75. Alex Clark says:

      We don’t need an ambassador to get Scottish oil service and construction companies to win work abroad, What we need is the complete opposite. An ambassador that will ensure that work in constructing these giant projects will be done here in Scotland.

      The 4 largest projects in Scottish waters haev all been built overseas. Even in Norway FFS where wages are about double ours. That was for then Clair field and the more expensive topsides were built in Korea.

      Right now Maersk Oil are developing the Culzean Field (great Scottish name) yet the jackets have been built in Holland and the Topsides in Singapore!!

      Laggan Tormore the same all built in the far East and transported here for installation.

      What we need is an ambassador that does what the Norwegians do and keep much of this work in our country. They didn’t just run down our steal making, shipbuilding, coal mining and manufacturing. They destroyed it.

      They wanted to run us aground and have succeeded.

      All we need is better management, that’s our politicians job. Let’s make sure we elect only those that we know will stand up for Scotland.

    76. Artyhetty says:

      The gradual, secretive, but deliberate dismantaling of Scotland’s oil industry was orchestrated years ago. It must have been at least when the SNP won to be the minority government in Scotland, in 2007. The UKGov started to destroy the industry as much as possible, while still raking in as much as they could for themselves. They are not daft enough to allow poor wee stupid Scotland to inherit a bouyant, successful industry, especially oil and gas.

      I have a little book. called, ‘Britain’s Offshore Oil and Gas’, Produced by ‘Geological Museum’, and ‘United Kingdom Offshore Operators Association’. No date, but, almost on last page, a visual showing ‘offshore hydrocarbon fields and operators as at January, 1988’. The list is almost endless.

      If you can get the book, do, it’s obviously what they showed and taught school kids as it’s really simplistic, but given the whole thing, the title and contents, it’s worth looking into what they taught kids, and what they told adults. I am not sure I have yet come across the word, Scotland, yet!

      My cousin from NE Eng asked what we would do for money now ‘the oil has run out’, I said well we never have received revenues from it at all, London takes it. Not sure he actually believed me. Brain washing, it’s still very fashionable, it works very nicely for scheming, lying, thieving, millionaire Britnats and their dodgy pals.

      Scotland, you really have been sold a pup, get a grip before it’s too late. I fear the dyed in the wool no voters, are still going along with the britnat propaganda by what I have heard in conversation recently. It’s the I’m alright Jack mentality, though that is not what these people believe themselves. Or is it.

    77. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      … progress so far ” 0 ” …. the tories dont care because they intend to upend the table and blame the EU ….. media as usual follow the tory line of it’s those pesky europeans at fault …

      I too believe it will be a “No deal is better than a bad deal” come October (then possibly a ‘snap GE’ following a vote of no confidence in Mays Govt’s handling of the whole negotiations, hence Corbyn on full GE Alert).


      More noises regarding “coming out of the EU” from Ryanairs Michael O’Leary:

      Speaking about Theresa May: “She’s delusional. The whole of the British elite are f***ing delusional.

      “They want to leave the single market but retain access to the single market. Why the f*** are you leaving then? It’s just bananas, but you’re lions led by f***ing donkeys at the moment – you elected them, so it’s your fault.”

    78. heedtracker says:

      Good stuff!

      German Parties Snub U.K. to Back Scotland’s Push to Defy Brexit
      By Alan Crawford
      30 August 2017, 15:16 BST
      Greens and Free Democrats say door is open to Scotland in EU
      Both are potential coalition allies for Merkel after election

    79. galamcennalath says:

      Where we are with the Brexit negotiations, a good appraisal ….

      London’s approach looks less to EU leaders like the “cherry-picking” they warned against and more like a demand for a whole cherry pie — with a big scoop of ice cream on top to boot.

      … the EU side seem somewhat less than impressed!

    80. schrodingers cat says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker

      i’m not sure about another ge, why would half the tory mps vote for a motion of no confidence in their own government? bear in mind, the HOC’s now needs a 66% majority in a vote of no confidence to bring about a GE. a leadership challenge is more likely

      then again, i didnt expect treeza to go for a ge the last time, so you never know

    81. heedtracker says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      31 August, 2017 at 8:09 pm
      Jockanese Wind Talker

      Tories are furious at Teresa for more or less single handedly bringing down tory UK gov this summer, for no actual reason.

      We’re being told Teresa is very secure by tory beeb etc, which almost certainly means exact opposite.

      Cometh the hour, cometh the not insane tory,

    82. heedtracker says:

      Perfidious Albitories. Imagine the relief when Scotland does shake off these imperial masters and then the problems trying to actually shake them off.

    83. Rock says:

      To think that the Tories increased their vote and seats in Scotland.

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

    84. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “why would half the tory mps vote for a motion of no confidence in their own government?”

      Only one reason I can see for it @schrodingers cat says at 8:09 pm

      That would be the very real possibility of a resounding YES vote in IndyRef2 and the subsequent impoverishment of Ingerlund when we take our resources with us.

      If that looks like happening then ‘Radical Socialist Corbyn’ will be rolled out to win the GE for the UK Establishment and obtain a majority of Unionist MPs in Scotland prior to a second IndyRef.

      Thus proving that there is ‘no appetite for IndyRef2’.

      UK out of EU but still holding on to Scotland, her last Colony.

    85. louis.b.argyll says:

      Cameron was an up-front tosser.
      So the English loved him, naturally.

      Shame almost, that he took them for
      a ride too.

    86. louis.b.argyll says:


      Some of..pal, some of

      There’s worse than us, with further to travel.

    87. schrodingers cat says:

      just in
      Emmanuel Macron rejects British plan to bypass EU Brexit negotiators

      desperate stuff from treeza

    88. Rock says:


      “Given that Scotland is not a sovereign state, it has no effective maritime boundaries; and any claims Scotland may assert are subsumed as part of claims made by the United Kingdom.”

      We are not seen by the world as sovereign.

      We are not seen by the world as sovereign.”

      Due to the simple fact that Scotland most definitely in NOT sovereign.

      Its sovereignty was sold to England by the “parcel of rogues”.

      But what matters now is that it was “democratically” handed over to England in September 2014.

      Why doesn’t Robert Peffers amend the Wikipedia entry?

    89. Petra says:

      Great front page on the National today …. Wanted: Branch Office Manager.



      McConnell ranting on STV tonight that the Labour Party should be left to get on with it, with no interference from London. That’ll be news to some Scots.


      The Sun is running a two page spread entitled: ‘We’d started to rebuild but now she’s shattered it.’

      ”Furious Scottish Labour insiders yesterday accused ”selfish” Kezia Dugdale of destroying the rebuilding of her troubled party, etc, etc ……

      And oh, eh, MSP Anas Sarwar – said to be a ‘recent Corbyn convert” – last night emerged as bookies’ favourite to win the leadership battle.

    90. Rock says:


      Due to the simple fact that Scotland most definitely is NOT sovereign.

    91. Abulhaq says:

      Time heads did roll for the Unionist establishment. Truly time for a radical, assertive, ‘scaring the !!!! out of them’ nationalism. We’ve been played for suckers for far too long!

    92. Andy smith says:

      Can anyone on this site provide information on how many Scots companies were involved in the construction of St Margaret’s crossing ?

    93. schrodingers cat says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker

      our mandate for indyref2 comes from the holyrood election, eg the recent ge didnt remove our mandate

      another ge wont do that either

      before nicola puts indyref2 back on the table and sets a date she will be certain she can win, it is brexit which will cause the polls for yes support to rise.

      i dont doubt the yoons will try all sorts of shit but they will be doing this against a backdrop of the uk economy crashing.

      i think under these circumstances,

      we can win

    94. heedtracker says:

      Rock says:
      31 August, 2017 at 8:36 pm

      Due to the simple fact that Scotland most definitely is NOT sovereign.

      Why cant you be sovereign, in this weird union of the UK zone Rock?

      Another dead easy query you will duck, quack, quack, Rock:D

    95. Rob Outram says:

      It strikes me that someone should do a series of documentaries about countries in recent history that have campaigned for and won their independece from Great Britain. Interviews with people who were involved in the political movements would demonstrate exact parallels with the way the Establishment behave today.

      Such a series of documentaries I think would go a long way to convincing people here that it is possible and even desirable to gain our independence.

    96. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Nah, @Abulhaq says at 8:42 pm don’t agree with your statement:

      “Truly time for a radical, assertive, ‘scaring the !!!! out of them’ nationalism.”

      I think we’ll stick with the Civic, Inclusive version of Nationalism we have if you don’t mind.

    97. schrodingers cat says:


      treeza is damaged goods, the scot tory chairman on sunday pols scotland already said she wouldnt be leading the tories into the next ge

    98. colin alexander says:


      You can be sovereign without being independent.

      The SNP have never asked people if they want Scotland to be sovereign – except by becoming independent.

      “Sovereign is used to describe the person or institution that has the highest power in a country.”

      Scotland could be sovereign. It could also be part of a union ( any union eg. UK, EU or a new one), whilst maintaining sovereignty.

      The SNP manifesto promised a “referendum”. It did not say what the question should be.

      If people insist on a referendum, because the SNP won’t come up with anything better and won’t offer a multiple choice question:

      I believe the question should be:

      Should Scotland have a sovereign parliament?

      It leaves the decision open as to indy or a union with whoever or of whatever type.

      To be decided by the people of Scotland, by future elections to our sovereign parliament via political manifestos, if the people vote Aye.

      If parliament is sovereign and people DON’T want indy, they can vote SNP or Labour or Tory, who all favour devolution.

      If they want indy they can vote Green or SSP, who are pro-indy.

    99. louis.b.argyll says:

      Why should Scotland have to wait for England to change.

      By the time some kind of social responsibility takes hold across ALL OF ENGLAND’S WELL DEFINED CLASS SYSTEMS..

      ..Our society will neither need or heed our presently ruling doctrine of ‘wealth creation being above all other rights’ (Brexit) (etc)

    100. heedtracker says:

      Andy smith says:
      31 August, 2017 at 8:54 pm
      Can anyone on this site provide information on how many Scots companies were involved in the construction of St Margaret’s crossing ?

      None? Maybe the mobile pie and tea trailers were Scots.

    101. Dr Jim says:

      Do we really think there’s going to be a Brexit or are the Inglish just going to talk and talk and talk and get nowhere whilst they try to undermine the whole procedure within the 27 so they can plod on till the next General election by which time a new and improved leader will have been groomed and chosen for the job of making sure the populations apathy to the whole Brexit deal is certain then they’ll inform the Nation that the Nasty EU people have changed their ways and given in and everything is going to benefit the new and powerful UK and Inglind is the winner “Yaay” vote for us the Tories who beat the EU Jeremy Corbyn would have mucked up the Tories cunning plan to now dominate the EU and then where would we have been so don’t vote for that idiot

      By a knockout in the blue corner “The Tories”

      Call me cynical!

    102. caz-m says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      Have you got any more pics Ronnie?

      Couldn’t open the last ones.

      Cheers Big Man

    103. caz m says:

      Graeme Doig

      hope you and the family are well.

    104. heedtracker says:

      colin alexander says:
      31 August, 2017 at 9:03 pm

      You can be sovereign without being independent.

      That’s a hopeless attempt to cover for your bestie Rock Colin A.

      Rock’s not got the stones to answer questions like,

      Why cant you be sovereign, in this weird union of the UK zone Rock?

      and all you can do is waffle, SNP bad.

    105. Rock says:

      colin alexander,


      You can be sovereign without being independent.”

      No you cannot.

      Scotland as the world’s only “sovereign” colony is a laughing stock.

      Cange Wikipedia’s statement if you can:

      “Given that Scotland is not a sovereign state”

    106. heedtracker says:

      Rock says:
      31 August, 2017 at 9:24 pm
      colin alexander,


      You can be sovereign without being independent.”

      No you cannot.

      So why can Scots hold indy refs Rock and not say Yorkshire and Surrey?

    107. Cactus says:

      Aye, SO where has the ambassador for Aberdeen been?

      In other developments…

      Welcome to BrUKexit:

      Family Guy version:

      It’s the last day of August ’17.

      Mon the oil!


    108. Rock says:

      colin alexander,


      You can be sovereign without being independent.”

      No you cannot.

      Scotland as the world’s only “sovereign” colony is a laughing stock.

      Change Wikipedia’s statement if you can:

      “Given that Scotland is not a sovereign state”

    109. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Agreed @schrodingers cat says at 8:58 pm

      “our mandate for indyref2 comes from the holyrood election, eg the recent ge didnt remove our mandate another ge wont do that either”

      And would go further than your “we can win” and say we WILL Win against the background of the Brexit Clusterf*ck.

      But I suspect they will try to obstruct at every turn up to the exit date of 2019 and potentially up to the next Holyrood in 2021 in the hope they can delay then negate IndyRef2.

      They will use every dirty trick in the book (they wrote it after all) and then some.

      Make no mistake SC this is End Game for the Union and the highest stakes imaginable for the Establishment.

    110. Dr Jim says:

      Human beings read this website for a variety of reasons, Information, Humour, General opinions and chit chat but I’m quite sure most of them don’t want to read two braying donkeys Haw Hawing at each other on a constant daily and nightly basis with their sole intention of destroying reasonably normal peoples discourse

      God knows none of us are the fount of all wisdom and knowledge but these two are just a tag team fount of all dribbling Shite

    111. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Lovin’ it @Cactus says at 9:28 pm

      “GIGGIDY” Indeed.

      Brexit really is turning into a Quagmire for the Tories 😉

    112. Legerwood says:

      Andy Smith @ 8.54 and heedtracker @ 9.07

      I assume when you said ‘St Margaret’s Crossing’ Andy you meant the Queensferry Crossing.

      Here is information about Scottish companies involved in the project

      Some interesting technical info on the construction of the Queensferry crossing in the link below including this:

      “”Transport Scotland has also pointed out that of the 483 sub-contractors working on the project, 265 are local firms while Scottish companies have provided 23,754 of the 26,122 supply orders for the project overall.””

    113. manandboy says:

      The era of a peaceful Union is about to come to an end as the British Establishment does what it has to do to preserve its institutions and its way of life.

      Be in no doubt, the Scots will be sacrificed as Scotland’s assets are stripped and the proceeds lodged in the City of London.

      Unless No becomes Yes.

    114. Jock McDonnell says:

      We must always be ready for a GE – the SNP must be destroyed – why ?
      Because brexit cannot be anything other than bad.
      Of course they could cut a deal – and as Michael O’Leary suggests (could he address SNP 2017 ??) no deal has all sorts of consequences – death by 1000 cuts as industries fall everywhere.

      However its looking very awkward for the UKOKs, as everyone who has read on this matter could foresee.

      We must keep brexit in the public’s mind – that way they will be watching & ready, when the shit hits the fan.

    115. schrodingers cat says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker

      high stakes indeed

      no doubt they will throw the kitchen sink at us, same as last time

      but brexit plays into our hands

      lets be honest with ourselves, if the polls were sitting at 60%, yes, we would all be calling for indyref2 tomorrow.

      for now, we wait and let the union disintegrate, then we jump.

      we should all be getting ready. it is coming

    116. Rock says:


      “So why can Scots hold indy refs Rock and not say Yorkshire and Surrey?”

      Who said they can’t?

      If Catalonia can, so can Yorkshire and Surrey. If and when they want to.

      Although I haven’t heard of the “Yorkshire National Party” or “Surrey National Party”.

      How many “indy refs” has Scotland held so far, Guardian reader?

      Why did Alex Salmond have to get Cameron’s permission to hold one?

      I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa is not going to give permission to Nicola to hold another referendum.

      Do you believe Nicola will ignore her and hold one anyway?

      I can say with 99% confidence that she will not.

      Will you then back a Ghandi style independence campaign, Guardian reader?

      A warning in advance: I will not be responding to your reply which I can predict with 100% confidence will be incoherent waffle.

    117. msdidi says:

      Andy Smith
      This article says “Over 300 firms in Scotland have benefitted from sub-contracts and supply orders”

    118. schrodingers cat says:

      Dr Jim says:
      these two are just a tag team
      agreed, best to ignore them

      Jock McDonnell says:
      We must keep brexit in the public’s mind – that way they will be watching & ready, when the shit hits the fan.

      agreed, let brexit do our job for us, let the bbc and the msm convert the yes/leavers back to yes.

      keep indyref2 hidden for the moment, when the polls are right, then we spring it back on the table with a very short run in.

      for the moment, most unionists think indyref2 is dead and buried, let them continue to think that

    119. defo says:

      Business as usual tonight then.

    120. heedtracker says:

      Rock says:
      31 August, 2017 at 9:51 pm

      “So why can Scots hold indy refs Rock and not say Yorkshire and Surrey?”

      Who said they can’t?

      Ah you big chicken Rock. Asked a simple question, either bottle it or try to wing it.

      How very Rock of you Rock:D

      Its ok Rock, you clearly haven’t the faintest idea what Scottish sovereignty actually means.

      Other news.

      Its pretty clear that Brexit UKzone is going to become one of the world’s most developed tax havens. No wonder the Irish are worried.

    121. Cactus says:

      Hey bridgewalkers, see when you go crossing our latest crossing tomorrow…

      Not only can you walk… you can DANCE and you can SING!

      Take yer brolly and celebrate your ownership.

      Most importantly, don’t forget to:

      Have a great day.

    122. heedtracker says:

      God knows none of us are the fount of all wisdom and knowledge but these two are just a tag team fount of all dribbling Shite

      Sorry Dr Jim. Old habits etc.

      I’ll give you peace:D

    123. Meg merrilees says:

      Went across the bridge this afternoon, northbound – only had a 15 minute delay.

      What a STUNNING, fantastic achievement. I take my hat off to ALL those involved.

      Then I spent an hour wandering around N. Queensferry and the environs.
      Everyone I spoke to, and there were lots of similar minded folk, was blown away by the elegance, beauty and sheer style of the bridge. It’s amazing.

      Listening to the radio during the journey, I heard Heseltine predict that there will be a GE in two years time.

      Is that after Indy ref 2? ‘cos it’ll be all change at WM by then.

      We live in a fantastic country, we have amazing people working here and we will be independent.
      Never doubt it.

    124. msdidi says:

      Thank you for the link to World Highways.
      Very informative

    125. Cactus says:

      Yip, looks like the people of Scotland have fallen in love with our new bridge.

      Many more to come, where next… the bridge from / to..

    126. Morgatron says:

      Fuck sake , i see hinge and bracket have hijacked the thread again with their usual brand of pish. Im off to to put a 9″ nail through my eye than spend time trying to get a descent conversation and a chuckle.

    127. Liam says:

      a propos nothing in this thread –

      My daughter annoyed a Yoon Yooth at her school today, who was provocatively insistent on calling Scotland ‘Northern England’, by, in turn, referring to England as ‘East Wales’.

      It’s a terminology I fully intend to use from now on at every possible opportunity.

      (With apologies to the Welsh on every occasion.)

    128. Cactus says:

      Aweright Jockanese Wind Talker ~

      Aye, Scotland is in the process of reclaiming her self-respect back bro.

      The world is watching and hoping Scotland chooses iScotland.

      Things will begin to move and increase at pace soon.

      I call it… “The Quickening

    129. defo says:

      Misery to Happiness ?
      Here, to eternity ?

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, they’re a t it again:

    131. Liam says:

      Rock says:
      31 August, 2017 at 9:51 pm
      Although I haven’t heard of the “Yorkshire National Party”
      Well you have now.

    132. Macart says:


      “Yip, looks like the people of Scotland have fallen in love with our new bridge.”

      What’s not to love? She’s a bonny lassie.

      They done good. 🙂

    133. Cactus says:

      You betcha defo ~

      Bed, bath and beyond bro…

      Scotland is fuckin’ amazing! 🙂


    134. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Could anyone who’s interested in and/or making arrangements for the Friends of WOS Glasgow social on Sep 16th please do so via Quarantine?



    135. Cactus says:

      “Dedicated to the One I Love”

      The darkest hour is just before dawn:

      What a line, an you can DANCE!

      They done good Macart 😉

      It’s the 11th hour.

    136. colin alexander says:

      @Rock , Thanks for this one:

      “Will you then back a Ghandi style independence campaign, Guardian reader?”

      “Guardian reader”, oh, you know how to hit below Heedtracker’s Guard(ian).

      But, to stick up for Heedtracker a wee bit:

      At least it’s no The National or the Herald or Evening Times or Sunday Herald.
      Eh, Rock?


      Seriously though: I don’t see the problem with a Scottish vote on parliamentary sovereignty. UK, USA, UN all support self-determination and democracy.

      The SNP don’t want a vote on indy. The SNP don’t do radical anymore.

      So, we can all sit and moan about that or try and get the SNP to do something constitutionally useful – and safe for them- whilst administering govt on behalf of Westminster.

      Say the SNP did campaign for Holyrood to be a REAL Scottish Government, not answerable to Westminster. But willing to work in partnership with the rest of the UK.

      It would prove that even when it’s not indy that’s proposed, the Unionist parties would still vehemently oppose it; so it might finally sink in to some No voters, that it’s Westminster power (England’s power) over Scotland that the Tories etc want.

      The Tories and Labour don’t just want a United Kingdom. They want a United Kingdom with the British/English Establishment domineering over Scotland.

    137. Lochside says:

      The English are planning and have been planning for decades to secure the oil once and for all by the Reform Bill. They’ve been stealing it physically for years and at the same time accusing us of being leaches subsidised by them.

      Brexit has been engineered by the revolutionary right wing cadre of Engtory..Ukip (where are they now?…to extract the UK from the EU and for the UK to extract oil and all the resources from the Scots and other peripheral celtic untermensch.

      From the moment oil was discovered the divide and rule tactic came into place….bribery of Shetland via their oil fund from landed barrels ( now circa £300 million ‘disbursed’)…whilst dumb old Aberdeen got the trashing of its diverse economy and huge influx of RUK carpetbaggers leading to the ugly carbuncle city itis now run by Unionist scum.

      The Inter Regio territory scam created to exclude any claim for Scotland over its own resources, being pumped into London’s coffers and the creation of the infrastructural glut resulting in the skyline of vanity we now see in that capital of chaos.

      1999 saw the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous handover by the despicable Dissembler Dewar in league with Blair, the war criminal, of our 6000 sq miles of maritime territory. Done on the stroke of midnight. A dirty deed done by dead of night.

      And now Osborne’s deliberate tax giveaway and bankrupting of the North Sea developments by allowing International capital to strip our resources out and get the tax relief i.e. handouts from us on top of their blatant theft.

      To complete the preparation for a No Deal Brexit…English workers are planted throughout the North Sea in preparation for the tooling up of N.E English ports to supply and service the Great British/uk North Sea. With the unabated immigration of RUK to the Northern Isles a plebiscite will be incited to separate from Scotland or ‘REMAIN’ in the UK.

      Meanwhile we sit here arguing about what to do next while the BBC and colonial media suppress the truth of the plunging pound and the impending Brazilianisation of Britain/UK.

    138. louis.b.argyll says:

      Sovereignty cannot be ‘sold’, any more than can history itself.

      The parcel of rogues merely buried the practicality of Scotland’s sovereignty deep in a pit of suppression. Along with some cultural and national identifiers.

      Still buried, still composting, under dark legalities of late medieval feudal acquisition by an all conquering ruling religeous elite.

      The UK has ‘acquired’ our sovereign rights folks, UNDER THE LAWS OF BOTH KINGDOMS AT THAT TIME.

      It’s like an teenage orphan being adopted by an uncle or aunt and expecting it to call them dad or mum. And why would the rest of the family tree suddenly be wrong.

      The same legalities, the use of ancient feudal despotism and aggressive aristocratic acquisition lasted across Europa until WWI/II Ending almost five hundred years of endless preposterous war.

      What WE in 2017, are STILL BEING SOLD is a family history written by the abusive partner in a marriage. Ceremony, smoke and mirrors,in perpetuity, and Henry VIII and Queens Victoria and Elizabeth and privilege and money and shifting debt.

      We want independence for all the right reasons.

      Scotland will rise again. We will respect our resources and meet the future confidently, using our ingenuity and imagination. We will not follow our next door neighbour’s bisiness-plan.

    139. Cactus says:

      Remember this list Wingers…?

      “Ian B
      Pete the Camera
      Brian Doonthetoon
      Ronnie Anderson
      Tam Jardine
      Kishorn Commando
      Michael McCabe
      Lynn McCarthy
      Quentin Quale
      Hero of the Federation
      Jim ST
      Robert McNulty
      The Nomad”

      We we there amongst others.

      We did good.

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Liam (10.32) –

      🙂 🙂 🙂


      Well-noted, and it’ll be passed on muchly.

    141. Cactus says:


      Auld Lang Syne.

      It’s September 2017.

    142. Cactus says:

      Hey, if you put your hand in your pocket for Wings this or last time round, you should be there, see you there, somewhere in Glasgow’s Glasgow.

      The quickening is coming soon hehe.

      Yer a Winger.




    143. manandboy says:

      The Rubicon of Scottish self-awareness has been crossed with the piece by Alf Baird.

      Erase the word Union
      Cancel United Kingdom
      Forget a partnership of equals
      and all the other words denoting better together.

      Scotland is so clearly a colony.
      Just like Australia and India and Zimbabwe and the rest.

      How blinded by British propaganda we’ve been.
      How taken in by the Labour Party in Scotland these past 70 years when we were told that the Tories were the enemy of the working class and the poor.

      Scotland is not a part of the United Kingdom. We are a Colony of the British Empire. Nothing more.

      We see clearly the brainwashing in North Korea but we cannot see it in Scotland.

      It is vital that Scotland sees itself as it truly is and that involves waking up to reality in the so-called UK today.

      Brexit will make it clear as England abandons all pretence of Union in order to survive at Scotland’s expense.

      It has already begun, but brainwashing prevents the majority from recognising it.

      A dam holding back a reservoir of 300 years of lies and treachery is about to break, and all the closely held but false beliefs of the gullible and the naive will be swept away.

      Coming soon. Brexit guarantees it.

    144. Capella says:

      @ Lochside – you have to take everyone with you. How are you going to do that?

    145. Valerie says:

      @ Lochside

      I don’t know what your background is, but you have unnerving strategic overview. Sadly, I can’t take issue with any of it.

      The reason for that, is, like you, I’m looking around just now, and I’m feeling very chilled.

    146. Cactus says:

      (oops, wrong addy)

      Ffs me, “we were there amongst others” – not we we.

      Talkin’ oui-oui.

      There be an abundance of oil.

    147. Robert Peffers says:

      Abulhaq says: 31 August, 2017 at 8:42 pm:

      “Time heads did roll for the Unionist establishment. Truly time for a radical, assertive, ‘scaring the !!!! out of them’ nationalism. We’ve been played for suckers for far too long!”

      But, Abulhaq, heads have been rolling in all the unionist parties. Cameron, gone, Labour under new management, SLAB has had a fair few new, (cough!), leaders as has the LibDems and even UKIP.

      They may claim they volunteered to go but as we say in Scotland, “Ah hae ma doots”.

    148. Cactus says:

      Good morning Robert Peffers ~

      Wishin’ ye well.

      Awe ra best.

    149. yesindyref2 says:

      Quite an important speech by Sturgeon for those like me who prefer to read (skim) rather than watch.

      Now a couple of the biggest projects are done, FRC and the M8, and the Aberdeen by-pass by end of this year, that perhaps frees up some extra capital investment money (apart from the A9 dualling and rail improvements), and if so the speech gives an indication of where it’s going.

      All designed to build up the economy, keep the onshore revenues and GDP rising, and that nominal deficit dropping. It also perhaps starts to address the wage gap between Scotland and London, which affects revenues – now directly of interest to Scotland as Income Tax is devolved. At last there could be some direct increases in revenue for economy improvements in the future.

      You won’t see a similar analysis on the BBC Scotland website, just a skimpy coverage of the speech.

    150. yesindyref2 says:

      Just to add to that in the “strategic” view of Indy Ref 2, there will be one more GERS in August 2018 before Indy Ref 2, and what would be useful is some sort of forward estimate of the GERS for August 2019, if Indy Ref 2 is in March 2019, at least in the headline figures, a proto-executive summary.

      GERS will be at the centre of IR2 – like it or not. Unless it’s too good for the Unionists, and THEY become “GERS deniers”! Like they were in the first year or so of IR1.

    151. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 31 August, 2017 at 9:34 pm:

      “Human beings read this website for a variety of reasons, Information, Humour, General opinions and chit chat but I’m quite sure most of them don’t want to read two braying donkeys Haw Hawing at each other on a constant daily and nightly basis”

      Well, Dr Jim, I’m finding it extremely hilarious. They two most ill informed commenters on Wings telling each other they are wrong.

      The thing I find so funny is that neither of them is correct and, just by chance I have posted a couple of links by official sources today that nail not only sovereignty but how the United Kingdom is legally fiddling their claimed sovereignty.

    152. Petra says:

      FGS ….. another ‘Indy’ list from Cactus now? The man or woman who does the night shift on here.

      Give us all a break.

      Watching you as you watch me.

    153. Petra says:

      Just checking in. Another list akin to ‘Indy’s. Indy that we just got rid of. What’s that all about?

      Read recently that ‘Defo’ is the only monitor on this site. Is that correct?

    154. heedtracker says:


      Everything you’ve describe about Scotland and Aberdeen has been going on for decades. So god only knows where you’ve been.

      Aberdeen in particular has had huge influxes of English oil workers, since the late 70’s. Aberdeen has been despoiled by yoon controlled ACC’s white elephants, almost complete lack of infrastructure investment, social housing spending and today nearly bankrupted by unionists, who have all got rich. Just ask Sir Wullie Young OBE, ACC ex finance boss.

      Its what Aberdeen voted NO for.

      Marvel, as The Guardian fraud’s spin away unionist ACC catastrophic pissing away of billions, and now their desperate search for even more money to borrow and piss away, or take Europe’s Oil Capital Aberdeen’s crazed economic status, and wrap Aberdeen in with likes of London borough of Newham.

      “The trend raises questions over the qualifications of local officials to spend public money on speculative deals, and they could also be entering into relationships in the City of London with savvier partners with potentially differing interests. In the late 1980s, Hammersmith and Fulham council west London, bet on derivatives in a scandal that led to authorities being banned from such activities.”

      Throw in local neo fascist Voice of The North Press and Journal endless cover ups, vote NO and anyone but SNP stuff and here we are today.

    155. manandboy says:

      I’m sorry I dont know how to link this as I read it on Facebook, but it is a must read. The piece is about anti-Scots propaganda.

      It Seems the SNP always has the Worst Luck

    156. manandboy says:

      Scotland is like a beautiful painting covered with graffiti courtesy of the Tory/Labour Alliance Party and the Media.

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      Is that young David Torrance on the main page of the Herald?

    158. Legerwood says:

      Herald on-line this morning : Ruth Davidson to make a speech today saying thousands of houses need to be built including council houses.

      Comments from spokesmen from all parties except the SNP, the party of Government, who are actually building thousands of council houses and who ended the right to buy such houses.

      Comments are closed on the article.

      Is this Ms Davidson’s Lennon moment? You know, ask for something to be done that is already being done and claim it as your big idea.

    159. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I think BBC Scotland accidentally showed a YES biker crossing the bridge.

    160. Smallaxe says:


      EVEL won’t worry the new government – but the West Lothian Question may well do;

      Scotland Ramps Up Offshore Wind, Benefits Ripple Across the Pond;

      The extreme engineering behind the UK’s tallest bridge;

    161. Smallaxe says:


      May’s post-Brexit trade policy unravels in Japan;

      Gerry Adams urges Irish Government to block Brexit talks;

      Jobs and industry of the future;

    162. Ken500 says:

      Osbourne and Cameron, the unionists deliberately ruined the Scottish Oil sector. Since 2010. Osbourne/Alexander increased Oil taxes 11% (£2Billion) up to 80%. The Oil sector cut exploration. It was being taxed at 62% when the price had fallen 75%. Since 2016 it has been 40%. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Even if it was 30% it would aid production. The Tories ruined the Oil sector. Just like they ruin everything else. Fracked Gas from the US is being imported and Gas from Norway. Yet folk in the NE didn’t bother to vote (6,000) or voted Tory. They voted to ruin their own economy.

      That is how ignorant some folk can be. Voting for multimillionaire farmers getting £Millions in non declared subsidies. Taking legitimate funding from poorer members of their own industry. The Tories at Westminster took EU funding intended for Scottish farmers. Multimillionaire fishermen telling lies and pleading poverty. They would not use bigger nets and threw back dead fish for years. The SNP, Richard Lochhead negotiated for bigger nets and increased quotas. Many farmers and fishermen who care about their industry, know the score, and support and donate to the SNP. Alex Salmond did more for the NE than anyone. Did more for the NE in five years than the Unionists did in fifty, The AWPR, sports development, the airport expansion, dock development etc. £Billions of investment. Yet folk sat on their hands and did not vote because it was raining?

      The useless Tories are now arguing for all the rights as EU members while supporting Brexit. A bigger bunch of ingnorant incompetents does not exist. Wasting £Billions trying to ruin the world economy again. Davidson and her cronies are telling lies and trying to ruin the Scottish economy, including the Oil sector. How ignorant are some people.The Union costs Scotland £20Billion a year. These unionists have backed £Billions from Scotland being wasted by Westminster. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Now Brexit, £Trns in debt. They could not make a bigger mess. The economy tanking. Causing the worst migration in Europe since the 11WW. Lying about the figures.

      Scotland raises £58Billion in revenues and could raise more without Westminster disasterous interference. The UK raises £533Billion. The rest of the UK raises £34.5Billion pro rata and borrow and spends £10Billion more pro rata (Tital £100Billion). Scotland gets £50Billion back (included £3.5Billion defence. Most not spent in Scotland).

      Thank goodness for the SNP Gov managing the Scottish economy, so competently. Dread to think what Scotland would be like without them. Westminster are just a bunch of lying crooks. Most of them should be in jail. Corbyn/Labour would be another disaster for Scotland. Just like the rest of them.

      Roll on Independence in the EU. The SNP will support and hold another IndyRef when it can be won. It has nothing to do with ‘nationalism’. It is about right and wrong. Common decency like most European countries,

    163. Macart says:

      RE: Ruth Davidson of the pointy shouty party and her speech

      From Scotgov site:


      Over the duration of this Parliament we will continue to invest in regeneration activity to stimulate inclusive economic growth and tackle inequality in disadvantaged communities. This will include delivery of the £25 million Regeneration Capital Grant Fund (RCGF) in partnership with local government. RCGF projects funded to date are anticipated to support or create more than 3,000 jobs, refurbish and bring back in to use 75 buildings, including a number of historic and landmark buildings, create more than 55,000 square metres of business space and support numerous community facilities.

      Through our Empowering Communities Fund we are supporting over 300 community organisations

      Housing, planning and social isolation

      Working in partnership with local authorities and housing associations, we will invest more than £572 million this financial year in the affordable housing supply programme. Local authorities have been allocated a share of £406 million grant subsidy to deliver more affordable homes for 2016-17, over £100 million more than the previous year. This is the start of our five-year commitment to deliver 50,000 homes with 35,000 of them for social rent. We will also continue to help people buy an affordable home through our shared equity programmes.

      The planning system has a critical role to play in supporting continued growth and investment and creating great places. Following the recommendations of the recent independent planning review, we have outlined immediate actions and will bring forward a Planning Bill early in the Parliamentary session which will maintain our commitment to a strong, high-performing system that enables housing and infrastructure delivery and supports quality of life of all our communities by promoting quality of place and the public interest. (ends)

      Maybe Ruth is simply unaware that stuff happens without requiring her input?

    164. Macart says:


      Many thanks for the punt. 🙂

      Back into the ranks this weekend.

    165. Ken500 says:

      Ruth Davidson is just a liar. Donations from house builders? Trying to steal SNP policies again. The unionists councils are cutting education spending so when new houses are being build there are not enough school places. Wasting £Millions on gritesque projects no one wanted. Carbuncles Ruining City centres. Building hotels and conference centres instead of schools and houses as intended.

      The SNP are building or renovating 6000 affordable houses a year. (30,000 houses over 5 years). House builders are building 17,000 houses a year. 17,000 houses? a year become available/sold. 40,000. The Tories having depopulated Scotland with London S/E centralist economic policies (Thatcher etc) are deporting legitimate people from Scotland. Against Hunan rights Laws. It is just despicable. Fiddling the figures and causing a migration crisis in Europe. Costing £Billions.

      The Herald is a disgrace. BBC Scotland is the Labour Press Office.

    166. Legerwood says:

      Smaller @ 7.03

      Re your link about recruitment
      EU workers are leaving in numbers and it could ‘choke’ the UK economy

      It seems NHS England is planning to spend £100 million recruiting GPs from abroad. The money will go to recruitment agencies who will be paid a premium for every GP they recruit. They hope to recruit upwards of 3000 GPs this way. They also hope to recruit the bulk of them from Europe – no I did not make that last bit up.

      The story is in the Guardian online. Sorry no time to give link.

    167. Legerwood says:

      Correction to my post @ 6.51 about Ruth Davidson and housing.

      In the paper edition of the Herald they do include a quote from Angela Constance about the SG’s record on building houses – right at the very end of the very long article on their front page.

      Strange they did not give such prominence to trailing the speech M&s Sturgeon made yesterday as they have to the speech M&s Davidson will make today.

    168. starlaw says:

      No matter how many houses Davidson promises to build if she was in power. I will build 50.000 more when I’m in power.

    169. Ken500 says:

      The health care workers are all leaving because of Tory policies, Brexit. Just as predicted. Now they are spending £100Million+ trying to recruit them. Crazy. More Tory money wasting. Throwing them out with one hand trying to get them back again. How totally incompetent. Westminster crooks at it again,

    170. izzie says:

      Ruth tank commander being grilled on GMS she is trying hard to justify Douglas Ross saying he was responding to a local issue so it wasne me

    171. Lochside says:

      Heed the ba’…where have I been all these years?….my contribution was a summation for ‘lurker’s. And if you want to know…which you probably don’t…I was in the North Sea experiencing it all !…not sitting on my fat arse like you recording your riddles about your infatuation with a tory troll.

    172. manandboy says:

      To speak or act in good faith requires above all honesty, and a sincere intention to deal fairly with others, without any malice or the desire to defraud or mislead.

      Can anyone say that Ruth Davidson speaks in good faith when her main job is to smear the democratically-elected office holders in the Scottish Government and to constantly spread propaganda based on lies to the Scottish people.

      Dugdale, the same.
      Rennie, the same.
      May, the same.
      All of them operating in bad faith.

      The no voters really ought to wake up to that fact.

    173. starlaw says:

      Last week Garry Robertson was complaining that Ruthy wasn’t doing interviews.
      Well she made up for it this morning, with a rant the likes of which Ive never heard before, She missed her vocation … should have been an Auctioneer

    174. Ken500 says:

      The Tories will ‘negotiate’ an EU agreement with less rights that will cost more. They really are totally ignorant incompetents. Bring back FPTP get rid of the lot of them. Annoying folk and making people more angry. Useless incompetents. Stop insulting people.

    175. Smallaxe says:


      It’s time you were back here where you belong. 🙂

      Legerwood; This one?

      NHS to spend £100m bringing in up to 3,000 GPs from abroad;

    176. Macart says:

      Apologies for not archiving, but the independent always goes doolally in the attempt.

      Anyroads, yet another ‘who knew(?)’ moment.

    177. John W says:

      @ manandboy 6.01

      Here is your link , it’s a good read , the general public need to wise up .

    178. Valerie says:


      Well, there’s a surprise, the colonel having a good old rant. I imagine her mobile soapbox is shaped like a tank

      Remember, folks, Colonel promised her new party policies.

      This will be summed up as:-

      Screaming about SNP policies that are already well in hand, or,

      If the SNP has achieved it, then it’s not enough, or its shite.

      Therefore, we can expect calls for a new bridge, and A & E needs to run at 99.5%.

      Remember, Scotland is still shite.

    179. Valerie says:

      @Mac art

      Good piece on sterling, some blunt language in there.

      Yesterday, on Twitter, an academic tweeted from Heathrow the £ was at 93 euros. Now we know, never buy your currency at the airport, but that’s where it’s headed.

      Faisal Islam got dogs abuse 2 days ago, for reporting euro parity on the wider world markets.

      The frothing Brexiteers are still in denial. I imagine Magaluf will be going through a quiet period soon.

      Wait, what about all those drunken reality shows of Brits abroad????!!!

    180. Ken500 says:

      Lochside and Heedtracker are in agreement.

      Lost in translation.

    181. Macart says:


      Killer blow was the assumption that this is happening because ‘Brexit has hit’.

      No. No it hasn’t. The UK is still part of the EU until the A50 talks have been concluded or abandoned in a stroomph. What we’re seeing now is merely the outer squalls of the shit storm. The water is still receding on the tsunami and very soon now it will crest on the horizon and then start travelling back toward the UK at a rate of knots.

      When Brexit does ‘hit’ you won’t be far enough inland.

      Believe it.

    182. Ken500 says:

      Davidson must have got a donation from a house builder. The unionists built no affordable houses in Scotland. The unionist councils are cutting education spending. There are not enough school places when new houses are built.

      Building grotesque monstrosities ruining City centres. No one wanted. Building unwanted hotels and Conference centres. Or overpriced unsubscribe Trams. OAP off peak travel passes can’t be used on. Instead of houses and schools.

    183. Naina Tal says:

      OT but not irrelevant.Just got the following message from Virgin after complaining about Tommy Sheppard’s questionnaire being blocked. Didn’t actually rush themselves did they?

      Thanks for your query about the following website.

      We referred your issue to our specialist partners, and they’ve decided that the above site does not pose a risk and shouldn’t be blocked. Any required changes should be in place within the next week.

      Kind regards,

      The Virgin Media team

      Now maybe just me being suspicious, but who are the “specialist partners” who are vetoing this? MI# something? Or some of Branson’s business contacts?
      Noted also it’s going to take another week!! Jocks should have forgotten all about their stoopid survey by then….

    184. Naina Tal says:

      Oh BTW It is still blocked!

    185. colin alexander says:

      It’s no suprise it’s the same auld people posting, cos if anyone dares say different from the “SNP are perfect” clique on here, they are subjected to insults.

      If you ever look outside your wee bubble, you will see that I am not the only independist that has concerns that the SNP are letting the side down. I could rhyme off a list of committed independists that say similar.

      The voting figures spoke more eloquently than any of us though. The SNP lost 500,000. Half a million votes for the SNP disappeared like snaw aff a dyke at the UK GE.

      Readers that don’t comment will see for themselves that the self-appointed moderators are trying to limit debate.

      Let me just reassure all YES voters and potential YES voters, that many of the regular WoS commenters do not represent the average potential YES voter or independist.

      I bet even some of the commenters that act like obnoxious tubes on here are okay in real life; it’s just when they sit behind a computer they get carried away, acting all dictatorial, like Theresa May telling the FM: stick your referendum up your Dalveen Pass.

    186. galamcennalath says:

      A quick google search for the word brexit exposes with newspaper headlines the UK’s plan to blame the EU for being unreasonable ….

      ” MEP Daniel Hannan SLAMS EU for trying to ‘DAMAGE’ Britain amid negotiations “

      ” EU is trying to ‘blackmail’ Britain, Trade Secretary Liam Fox claims “

      ” ‘Davis landed a blow!’ Farage SKEWERS ‘tetchy’ Michel Barnier as UK gets Brexit upper hand “

      ” ‘We can’t be blackmailed’: Liam Fox issues warning to EU over Brexit “

      IMO the EU has been clear and transparent for months. Everyone should understand the timetable and points for negotiation – get the divorce issues firmly dealt with first. Sensible enough.

      However, the UK clearly has another agenda.

    187. call me dave says:

      Ruthie the moothie has taken up the Dugdale’s trait of getting as many words in as short a time as possible.

      Forced to conduct an interview on shortbread radio to answer questions about her councillors and the linesman MP but pretends it’s all really about building more council houses and the SNP are crap.

      Disgraceful that she is only got a light toasting and tried to divert the subject onto generation ‘Y’

    188. Macart says:


      That Random Public Journal piece is worth a read right enough.

      Good catch.

    189. Capella says:

      @ galamcennalath – we can only assume that type of raving propaganda is aimed at their UKIP fellow travellers. The rest of us heard Michel Barnier and Guy Verhofstadt the first time they said it, last year.
      Sounds like they are preparing for an almighty flounce out of Europe. Maybe October 8th is the date as Shrodingers Cat says.

    190. Legerwood says:

      Smallaxe says:
      1 September, 2017 at 8:53 am

      Legerwood; This one?

      NHS to spend £100m bringing in up to 3,000 GPs from abroad;


      Yes, thank you, that is the one. I was heading out to take a neighbour to hospital so did not have time to archive and post.

    191. colin alexander says:

      My Comment in Herald 1/9/2017:

      The SNP promised a referendum if Scotland is being taken out the EU.

      I would prefer multiple choice answers with STV voting, but if it had to be one question with one simple answer, this would be it:

      Should Scotland have a sovereign parliament? YES / NO.

      A sovereign Scottish parliament could decide to stay in the EU or UK – or become independent, if that’s what the majority prefer.

      Of course any union requires others to agree, but at least we would have the ability to decide our end of things for ourselves.

      Then it’s up to our potential partners to work with us via mutual consent. Just like grown ups have to do every day.

      Personally, I believe independence or anything else should be achieved via manifesto pledges and elections. The good old-fashioned tried and tested way.

      If you want indy or anything else, you vote for a party that says a vote for them is a vote for that policy.

      But I believe a referendum on a sovereign parliament would be a major step forward and a kept manifesto promise.

      I think it’s a choice many NO and YES voters would agree to.

    192. Both Labour and Tories have always promised the moon and delivered nothing.

      The level of poverty and depravation in many of our communities today are testament to that.

      So should anyone in Aberdeen really be surprised that the Tories didn’t appoint an oil and gas Ambassador to promote the North sea around the world.

      As for Ruth Davidson spouting about the need to build new towns to end the housing crisis, obviously she hopes people have forgotten that it was her both Tory party and Labour which created the housing crisis in the first place with their right to buy policy.

    193. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      Sounds like they are preparing for an almighty flounce out of Europe. Maybe October 8th

      There’s another UK/EU round of negotiations in Sept and one around the 8th.

      The European Council meets on 19th Oct. I believe that is when they will formally decide whether talks can move on to trade. I reckon at the press conference after the 8th Oct meeting, Barnier will announce that he will be advising that progress has been insufficient.

      I suppose if the underlying UK plan is never to agree the divorce details then October seems as good a time as any to spit the dummy!

      From our perspective it’s all about a good timing for IndyRef2! From a UK perspective they seem to be keen to delay IndyRef2. However, to be useful, they need to delay until after 6 May 2021 and the Holyrood election. That seems impossibly long so they may decide to risk IndyRef2 sooner than later.

    194. Capella says:

      @ Macart – it is a good read and so are the comments below. It is cheering that people are much more sceptical about the propaganda that passes for “news” in the UK.
      Stu can take a bow.

    195. Fred says:

      Folks, on this day in 1651 English troops under Cromwell’s General Monck commenced the assault on Dundee which ended in a massacre. Glencoe I got at the school but it was a trifling business by comparison & Drogheda is well known yet Dundee was news to me.

    196. Capella says:

      @ Fred – another good read! Thx for the link. I didn’t know about the Dundee massacre.
      There are old military roads in the more mountainous parts of Aberdeenshire said to have been built by Monck. Also a small hump backed bridge south of Braemar was said to be built by him. He must have spent a lot of time raiding in the north.

    197. galamcennalath says:

      Fred says:

      Glencoe I got at the school but it was a trifling business by comparison & Drogheda is well known yet Dundee was news to me.

      The Unionist history of North Britain was written as a political tool. In many ways it has been successful in giving Scots a false narrative about their past. It will take iScotland decades to correct this.

      Reminds me of Craig Murray’s interesting piece on Culloden ….

    198. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fred says: 1 September, 2017 at 11:26 am:

      “Folks, on this day in 1651 English troops under Cromwell’s General Monck commenced the assault on Dundee which ended in a massacre. Glencoe I got at the school but it was a trifling business by comparison & Drogheda is well known yet Dundee was news to me.

      Aye! Fred, but I bet they taught you the fictional story of Bruce and the spider? A story that did not make it into the public domain until a very long time after Bruce was dead an buried. It is pure fiction.

      Our entire Scottish, indeed British, history has been rewritten by Westminster and some of the popular beliefs out there in the public domain are very easy to debunk as total claptrap.

      Taught history and real events are like believing Family Guy is a typical USAsian citizen. It just isn’t what it purports to be.

      It is really just pure propaganda and they have been at it since ever historic records began.

    199. Capella says:

      “do not teach their history”

      Heydrich banned history teaching in Czech schools and instituted German language lessons instead.

    200. Cactus says:

      Hey Petra, the above was a list of good names from a previous Wings social.

      Here’s where our names came from:

      In the wee small hours I try and ahm also a guy x


    201. North chiel says:

      ” Galamcennalth ” at 1042 am. The question is what happens if there is a breakdown in Brexit talks
      in October. Does this signal the end of TM and another General election? If so the Britnat Labour Party must not be allowed to ” make all the running” in Scotland ( greatly assisted of course by Pacific quay and co.). Could the SNP possibly ” run on a ticket of remaining in the single market & customs union and thereafter initiating separate negotiations with the EU? . Something dramatic has to get the SNP on the front foot and Britnat Labour in Scotland on the defensive if another GE is called.
      As regards your comments over the date of any 2nd referendum, my thinking is that the ” mandate” expires on the date of the next Holyrood election. If a request is made prior to this date by Holyrood for a section 30 ” approval” and again Westminster stalls/ refuses , instead of our government proceeding with a referendum ( without section 30), could our FM make the next Holyrood election a ” de facto vote on Independence/ a mandate to negotiate withdrawal from the acts/ treaty of union” ?

    202. heedtracker says:

      Lochside says:
      1 September, 2017 at 8:22 am
      Heed the ba’…where have I been all these years?

      It doesn’t detract from the point, you’ve clearly not been looking around you, at how Scotland has been run, since the 70’s.

      So does anyone have any idea how and what ex ACC Finance Convener Wullie Young, ran up a debt of over £1.2bn?

      Or what and why does same ACC now need to borrow another of that total?

      BBC Scotland gimp network for example didn’t even report ACC debt until the

    203. heedtracker says:

      Only thing on Graun Scotland section all week, gay Kez.

      Next weeks Scotland Graun coverage, gay Colonel Ruth. Its just as well there are absolutely no SNP gay MSP’s or MP’s because etc etc blah blah…

      LGBT rights
      Think coming out is easy nowadays? Then ask Kezia Dugdale
      Matthew Todd
      Society is less homophobic, but I know only too well that fear of rejection still makes us hide who we are. The legacy of gay shame is the next LGBT frontier

    204. Lochside says:

      Heed the ba’..’you’ve clearly not been looking around you, at how Scotland has been run, since the 70’s’. Talking in riddles again eh Heedy?

      Well if you don’t get the point of my post then you are obviously hard of thinking. Stick to talking shite about your Slovenian lover…it clearly demonstrates your grasp of what’s been happening in Scotland…zero. And don’t bother addressing me again. I’m tired of dilettante pricks like you spoiling this site.

    205. heedtracker says:

      Well if you don’t get the point of my post then you are obviously hard of thinking. Stick to talking shite about your Slovenian lover…it clearly demonstrates your grasp of what’s been happening in Scotland…zero. And don’t bother addressing me again. I’m tired of dilettante pricks like you spoiling this site.

      Maybe you’re right but you’re old man with nothing to say at all whoever you are.

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