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Wings Over Scotland


And now we wait

Posted on December 12, 2019 by

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    570 to “And now we wait”

    1. Breeks says:

      Beat me to it Mike Cassidy…. lol.

      That’ll teach me to update my page before writing. Lol

    2. call me dave says:

      Jings!

      I’m £413 richer this morning in my shares thing I had a peek as I do of a morning. It’s an ill wing etc etc.

      My Daily Mail ‘pal’ at the next table in the cafe right now hasn’t spoken to me yet…. I might break the ice in a minute

      I think she’s nursing a wrath! 🙂
      Don’t mention the Lib/Dems

    3. Bobp says:

      Great result for Scotland and the SNP, time now for the gloves to come off.

    4. call me dave says:

      It’s an ill wind that etc etc. :-(. Tablet.

    5. Gary45% says:

      I watched that video for 10 hours solid, a bit repetitive, but I loved the bit with Trump rodgering Johnson.

      Thought I was going for the obituary this morning, but a
      great result for Scotland, although Moray is now an obvious “shire” with the armed forces stationed there and obvious better health care for all the southern retirees.
      Now officially pronounced Eljin and Mow-ray.

    6. Pete says:

      Really interesting times ahead.
      What if Brexit turns out to be a great success?
      Will the SNP still advocate membership of the sclerotic EU or will it move to total independence.
      Lots of strategic thinking to be done.
      NS a bit more muted than we might have expected.

    7. robertknight says:

      Well done to all the foot soldiers BTW.

      But I can’t help but see this result as one which ensures that Brexit WILL happen and that IndyRef2 WON’T.

      Even if the UKSC saw fit to instruct the UK Govt. to bring forward legislation at Westminster to enable an Order in Council under Section 30(2), there’s nothing to stop the HoC as a whole from blocking the legislation and the Scottish Govt./UKSC wouldn’t/couldn’t do anything in such circumstances – the UK Parliament is Sovereign in the eyes of the UKSC, therefore if Westminster votes down any Bill enabling an Order in Council under Section 30(2) then that’s it…

      The legislation clearly states:

      Section 30(2) Orders

      7. Notwithstanding the alternatives available, the 1998 Act recognises that changes may, over time, have to be made to the reservations and exceptions set out in Schedule 5. Section 30(2) of the Act therefore allows the Schedule
      to be modified through an Order in Council. The draft Order must be approved by the Scottish Parliament and both Houses of the UK Parliament before it is made and can come into force. The initiative in proposing a Section 30(2) Order can be taken by either the Scottish Government or the UK Government, but both sides need to agree both the principle and the detail before an Order can be pursued.

    8. Bobp says:

      Robert knight 8.16am. Given the fact that the SNP are bombarded night and day by the BBC and Scottish media as essenpeebad. And are not given a fair voice or hearing, this was a great result .

    9. Breeks says:

      To be a bit harsh while folks are enjoying victory, you could view this in the round, and see today’s result as broadly consistent with the 2015 General Election, and it’s the 2017 Election result, and only the 2017 result, that is the rogue departure from consistency.

      2017 was the exception to prove the rule, …and the SNP rules.

      There is also a bit of the conspiracy theorist in me wondering about the insidious Dark Money influence in 2017, and nagging suspicion that May’s snap Election was actually a well planned and determined assault on the SNP which didn’t succeed overall, but did scare the SNP and buy the UK some breathing space. It claimed some mighty scalps against all the odds.

      If that’s right, it begs the question whether the Dark Money influence was exposed in 2017 and didn’t like it’s time in the spotlight, or perhaps, the Dark Money financiers really don’t like Boris Johnson and the prospect of a No Deal Brexit. Option 3 being that the Dark Money people paid a lot of money in 2017 and it didn’t destroy the SNP. Option 4 is too laughable for words, and in the sane world we can rule out Ruth Davidson’s influence on anything.

      So, we’ve pretty much returned our fortunes to 2015 levels, and bounced back from 2017. But the pressure is on now to secure tangible progress on the Independence front so that 2019 isn’t a repeat of 2015, and a passing “high” that squandered it’s window of opportunity.

      No more prevarication. No more procrastination. We NEED some Constitutional red lines and ultimatums for both Indy and Brexit.

    10. robertknight says:

      Bobq…

      The same was true in 2015, and look at the result then. Boris and Brexit weren’t factors in 2015 and both should have resulted in a better showing for us this time.

    11. Breeks says:

      Hmmm…

      Option 5… Dark money financiers might not be scared of Nicola Sturgeon like they were in 2017.

    12. Bob Mack says:

      Great result from the SNP. What now? I suppose nothing actually changes until we leave with no deal or complete negotiations for some type of deal.

      Either way the priority is now or at least should be ,obtaining by whatever means the Section 30 order.

    13. cirsium says:

      @robertknight, 10.06

      We have the status of a colony? So we refer to international law.

      United Nations Resolution 1514 (XV) approved 14 December 1960

      All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

      All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

    14. Bobp says:

      Robertknight 10.12am. With what I said at 10.07am, and also a big yearly influx of southern retirees, no 16/17 olds, or eu nationals allowed to vote. It was on the whole Robert a pretty good result.

    15. Ottomanboi says:

      This leading article from the Irish Times.
      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uk-election-result-what-the-tory-win-means-for-brexit-and-ireland-1.4114269
      No mention of the SNP. The Irish are supposed to be sympathetic are they not?
      Varadkar and Sturgeon are buddies, we’re told.
      Closer Scotland gets to independence less the sympathy?
      A sovereign Scotland is a potential economic rival to Ireland on the western fringes of Europe.
      Some might prefer that that potential were kept confined.
      This from the Irish Independent.
      https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/we-smashed-the-roadblock-we-ended-the-gridlock-boris-johnson-wins-historic-uk-election-victory-vows-to-get-brexit-done-38781246.html
      Passing reference to the sic Scottish Nationalist party!!!
      With ‘friends’ like these who needs etc. This is our fight, ours alone…sinn fèin.
      Lets get on with it.

    16. Stuart MacKay says:

      Joe @08:52

      OK, I’ll bite. The EU is the largest economy in the world. It’s fundamentally in the interests of every business in Scotland to have access at the lowest rates possible. Clearly membership of the EU offers the best business proposition. The UK could arrange a trading deal with the EU but it will never be on terms that are as favourable as membership.

      So irrespective of how Brexit works out, the best deal with the most people with the most money is right on our doorstep. It’s pure insanity to ignore that.

      Membership of the EU is also a huge force multiplier for any business. The EU carries a stick that’s a lot bigger than anything the UK could wield. That means trade deals with the other major trading blocks will be on better terms than could be agreed otherwise. The UK could join NAFTA or become another state in the USA but even then the deal can never be as sweet as the one with the EU.

      So irrespective of politics, Scots are better off in the EU – larger markets, more opportunities, more money.

      The alternative is the chance to the sold out by the English to further their own interests. It happened before and it’s happened a lot to a lot of others so you can’t say you weren’t warned.

    17. robertknight says:

      Bobp…

      I’ll grant you “good”, but not “great”.

      In 2015, discounting the supposed post IndyRef defeat ‘sympathy vote’, (which I don’t subscribe to), we managed 50% of the Vote and 56/59 Seats.

      If we ignore 2017’s result, (where our support apperently stayed at home), this time we had the Perfect Storm of Boris AND Brexit, yet we managed only 45% of the Vote and 48/59 Seats.

      Why?

    18. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I suppose it was inevitable that a reactionary Tory win in England would wash up some flotsam onto here.

      Not to mention the occasional irrepressible negativist Mr Jolly who could even see a downside in an actual indy referendum win. “Yes, we’ve won, but but but whit aboot this…”

      I prefer to have the same reaction as Nicola on seeing the Swansong result, as on the video clip that CNN are currently showing. (Has it got onto youtube yet?)

      All diversions and obstacles now removed:

      General election – check
      Second EU referendum – check

      The path to IR2 is now clear. Let’s get to it.

    19. mike cassidy says:

      Stuart McKay.

      No point biting.

      A while back he was coming out with that 1000s of rules imposed on us by the unelected guff.

      For a laugh I asked him to name three.

      He named one – the workplace directive

      But that had been passed by the elected members of the European Parliament.

      I told him he still had two lives left.

      He never got back with any!

    20. Bobp says:

      My personal opinion now is if a section 30 is refused, is for those 48 mp’s to walk out of that sewer on the Thames and return to Scotland.

    21. Old Pete says:

      Philippa re-elected superb for Central Ayrshire. Well done SNP now finally, surely we have to go for Independence whether the English government like it or not.

    22. Dan says:

      Oh aye. So we now have this new angle being floated by a few on here of “what if leaving the EU is a great success”.

      I’m waiting patiently on these individuals proffering such insight on a “might be basis” to qualify their positions as being more accurate and informed than the many studies and reports that have already been compiled which state it will have a negative effect across the board.
      Come on, chop chop, let’s see your evidence then.

    23. Stuart MacKay says:

      mike cassidy @10:40am

      I wasn’t really writing it for Joe’s benefit. If someone handed him a winning lottery ticket he’d find some way to complain about it.

      I really enjoyed the slapping about handed to the SNP here over the past few weeks but being a nattering nabob of negativism isn’t going to cut it anymore. The door to independence is wide, wide open. It might take a bit of jostling and a few elbows to get through but action not whining is the only way forward now.

    24. Dan says:

      @Bobp at 10.40

      Tend to agree, continually pissing in the wind just leaves you reeking of piss.
      Not recognising the authority of Westminster Parliament because of continually having our wishes denied due to the 10 to 1 democratic deficit is reason enough for me.
      But I guess if one is pulling in 70k a year to do so, they might not feel the same urgency of the situation compared to those at the sharp end directly suffering the consequences of UK austerity measures.

    25. robertknight says:

      Bobp@1040

      Now on that I do agree.

    26. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dan @10:50am

      “what if leaving the EU is a great success”.

      If it is, then great. However most businesses could double their profits by being an EU member and avoiding tariffs. Membership will always mean more opportunity and more money. You’d have to be an utter imbecile to walk away from that kind of deal.

      That still does not solve the problem of the 800lb gorilla for a neighbour who will happily sell you out if there’s a penny of profit in it.

    27. Dan says:

      @myself at 10.59

      That said, more the fool me as I’ve just realised that the past month has cost me as a volunteer £100s of pounds in fuel, time and effort busily campaigning to get someone elected to a Parliament that I do not recognise the authority of.
      May be I should leave Scot Meekland whilst it prevaricates on whether to put on either its boots or eggshell walking ballet shoes, and just flit to Ireland and join Sinn Féin as they have the right idea.
      I like my spuds, Guinness and EU citizenship so seems like a better option. lol

    28. AndyMcKangry says:

      Thanks breeks @ 6.17
      Usually like your posts but why would I, “ a thick, obnoxious, arsehole” stick up for the borders?
      They’ve shown their true colours now and in 2014.
      Thanks for the spelling correction though, I’ll take that on ‘bored’
      I’m quite comfortable in my central belt, yes supporting constituency.

    29. manandboy says:

      From Ewan Hunter on twitter.

      “To be crystal clear; by YOUR rules, YOUR system, you @Conservatives declare victory at #GE2019 with 56% of the seats.

      By the IDENTICAL measure, #Scotland has returned 81% of seats in Scotland to @theSNP

      #ItsTime for #YES #indyref2 & a relationship of equals; not dominance???????????”

    30. robertknight says:

      Cirsium@1022…

      Sorry, but as I said on the previous page, the UN won’t give two hoots until we’re being ethnically cleansed, locked up indefinitely and/or shot in the streets. (In saying that, the UN wasn’t too bothered when the same was going on in Ulster during the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s).

      Look at the UN vs UK where the Chagos Archipelago is concerned. The UK doing a good impersonation of Israel where UN Resolutions are concerned – fingers in both ears giving it “La-la-la not listening”.

      They’d do exactly the same with us.

      Nope, I’m pretty sure that where an S30(2) Order is concerned, under Boris, we’re f’d.

    31. Doug McGregor says:

      Did the Greens save their deposit anywhere? That waste of money will please their fundraisers no end , not.

    32. Breeks says:


      AndyMcKangry says:
      13 December, 2019 at 11:13 am
      Thanks breeks @ 6.17
      Usually like your posts but why would I, “ a thick, obnoxious, arsehole” stick up for the borders?

      Yep, that’s the message the Borders gets loud and clear from the SNP, every time they seek grace from a graceless face.

    33. Scott says:

      All I will say is that we here in Scotland had it bad under Thatcher just wait you ain’t seen nothing yet Boris will be devastating for us so the only way is get out while we can.
      Great night for SNP.

    34. Doug McGregor says:

      If Bojo won’t issue the section 30 then he ought to be explaining in detail to England why he’s so keen to hold on to a loss making enterprise like us.Sentimental attachments just won’t cut it.

      Once they have had to fess up that we’re not the financial basketcase that they make us out to be , it should be plain sailing to Indy.

    35. Bobp says:

      Well well ,whoda thunk it, no unionist majority anymore in Westminster from Ulster. They never seen that coming.

    36. SilverDarling says:

      Happy to be proven wrong wrt the number of SNP seats. Depressing to see a Tory majority but the battle lines are clearly drawn now.

      Gutted about Stephen Gethins who always seemed decent and hard working.

      This was a strange election – was anyone really undecided going into it? It seems LibDems had their eyes opened to the inadequacies of their leader and her plans. Labour voters were deluded. Tories doubled down on their leader’s message (whatever that was) and SNP voters just thought of the greater good for Scotland whether they wanted Independence or not.

      Exciting times ahead.

    37. Capella says:

      Looking forward to WoS post mortem. I fell asleep for a few hours last night listening to R Scotland. But even if I’d stayed awake I wouldn’t be much wiser. They missed almost every result announcement, cut it short before the end, failed to put it in context, didn’t play winners’ speeches and chatted amongst themselves in the studio.

      They also got constituencies mixed up. Sometimes they told us what the winning margin was and the percentage, but usually they didn’t. Very amateur effort.

      I did hear the Jo Swinson defeat though and they did interview Amy Callaghan later. So some redeeming features.

      In my own constituency, Kincardine and Aberdeenshire West, the SNP candidate just came a few hundred votes short of unseating Andrew Bowie. Shame. Like Moray, there is a large retiree population, big landowners, some holiday home and time share addresses which possibly allow for postal vote manipulation, and an army barracks for the Royal visits. Also, the Lib Dems will have voted tactically.

      Hoping Stu will be doing the number crunching and analysis when he recovers from the excitement.

      What a disaster zone England is.

    38. callmedave says:

      Boris leaves the Palace and might give us with a speech at No10.

      Oh! BBC big Auntie says “Boris won right across the Country” 🙂

    39. robertknight says:

      Doug@11:33

      “If Bojo won’t issue the section 30 then he ought to be explaining in detail to England why he’s so keen to hold on to a loss making enterprise like us.”

      You might as well as an abusive husband why he prefers to beat his wife rather than divorce her.

    40. callmedave says:

      Nicholas Witchell suggests that Queenie might have asked Boris Humpty Dumpty how is he going to bring the country together again after such divisiveness. 🙂 FGS!

    41. Dan says:

      @Stuart MacKay at 11:07 am

      Just for clarity, pity you stripped out the start of my sentence as your quoted part now looks like the question was stated by mean when it wasn’t.

      What I said in my post at 10:50 am was:

      Oh aye. So we now have this new angle being floated by a few on here of “what if leaving the EU is a great success”.

    42. X_Sticks says:

      Apologies everyone. I’m gutted we didn’t manage to unseat Theresa May’s wee Pob lookalike lickspittle Andrew Bowie.

      Eight fkn hundred and forty fkn three votes in it. So near.

      Royal Deeside (and much of the North-East) just isn’t ‘normal’ Scotland. Huge cringe, royal sycophancy and favourite britnat retirement location add up to a hard nut to crack.

      Even here the grip is slipping though.

      Pick up. Dust off. Soldier on.

      Thanks to all the rest of you who have managed to send a powerful message to London. 2020 is going to be an interesting year. Stay positive.

    43. robertknight says:

      Doug@11:33

      Sorry, typo, should’ve been “ask an abusive…”.

      Besides, Boris may be forced by the UKSC to bring forward the Bill, but Parliament can, (and given a free-vote will), vote it down. End result, no S30(2) Order; Scotland trapped TFN.

    44. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Reading posts from Gary45% and Robert Knight got me thinking about IF and HOW might we win IndyRef2 when studying past performance.

      There is an elephant in the room.

      The “Moray Effect” is demonstrative. It is definitely pervasive and can be extrapolated throughout Scotland. Just a matter of percentages between Moray and the whole of Scotland.

      There are a LOT of English service personnel in the Moray constituency and that has evidently caused an effect as it is natural for the residents born and bred in England who now live in Scotland to vote for the Union.

      YES there are many honourable exceptions with folk from England voting YES. But the trajectory for the 2021 Census is likely to burst through the 9% of Scotland’s voters being born in England.

      Something akin to 1% maybe 2% will vote YES. But why should Scotland be kept in the Union by 8% of folk who, if the boot was on the other foot and as an example, the Scots DID hold the balance of votes stopping Brexit – southern England
      would kick up a helluva stink.

      In fact they did. Remember the hashtag #fcukoffscotland when England thought we could stop Brexit.

      So my question is the unthinkable that now needs to be thunk…

      Why is it right for 91% of Scots to be FORCIBLY HELD CAPTIVE IN THE UNION by 8% of those living in Scotland, all of whom were born in England?

      We will be fighting very hard for IndyRef2 to take place. Yet that vote is rigged against us before we start.

      Other posters have quite rightly observed, with the “Perfect Storm” of the current Boris Clusterfcuk, we can still only muster around 45%.

      It is an unpalatable fact that just as Boris Johnson has gerrymandered the UK election (the Tories even infiltrated Labour to install Corbyn), so too is our IndyRef2 gerrymandered. With 8% of those born in England resident in Scotland keeping the majority of Scots who want Independence locked into what they want we are destined for Groundhog IndyRef.

      Only we won’t be getting IndyRef3 anytime before 2040. The whole system is rigged.

      ——————–

      Sources…

      Census Figures 2001
      Scottish Resident Place of Birth…

      Scotland….4,410,400…87.13%
      England…….408,948…..8.08%
      .
      .
      Census Figures 2011…
      Scottish Resident Place of Birth…

      Scotland….4,411,884…83.32%
      England…….459,486…..8.68%

      ——————–

      Gary45% (13 December 2019 at 10:00 am) says…

      Moray is now an obvious “shire” with the armed forces stationed there and obvious better health care for all the southern retirees.

      ——————–

      Robertknight (13 December 2019 at 10:36am) says…

      In 2015, discounting the supposed post IndyRef defeat ‘sympathy vote’, (which I don’t subscribe to), we managed 50% of the Vote and 56/59 Seats.

      If we ignore 2017’s result, (where our support apparently stayed at home), this time we had the Perfect Storm of Boris AND Brexit, yet we managed only 45% of the Vote and 48/59 Seats.

      Why?

    45. Joe says:

      Well the thing is, friends, i dont see much economic literacy here. Even if there is some fine political analysis.

      So, what if Brexit is a success? Whats the independence argument?

      Intelligent people would call that contingency planning.

    46. manandboy says:

      “I know this won’t be popular with many but in this General Election the political leader that hasn’t put a foot wrong is @NicolaSturgeon” … Lord Ashcroft.

    47. Joe says:

      Because the SNP made this election about Brexit primarily. At least thats how it looks and thats how Westminster will read it.

      So if Brexit isnt the shambles you all read about in the Guardian (or whatever other rag) it then undermines the indy argument.

    48. Simon Curran says:

      “The voices of nationalism and populism both north and south of the border beat both her [Ms Swinson] in her seat and nationally as well.” said acting co-leader and Lib Dem President Baroness Sal Brinton. Complete failure to see that Scottish nationalism is progressive and outward looking whist England/Britain’s is increasingly hostile, backward looking and inward looking.

    49. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dan, you’re right. Apologies.

    50. Mist001 says:

      Well, the SNP don’t have any distractions now. Brexit IS going to happen, so they can’t spend their time banging on about stopping it. Independence is at the top of their list now whether NS likes it or not and she’ll be found out if she dithers.

      The automatic refusal of the article 30 is a given, so the request is only being put in for show. Let’s see what NS and the SNP have really got.

      She was adamant that Indyref2 will be held in 2020, the gates are wide open for her, so let’s go, let’s see what she’s got.

    51. mike cassidy says:

      Feck me!

      I’m already thinking of GE2024

      And wondering if all those workingclass English people who voted tory in order to get Brexit done

      Will go back to Labour

      They are going to have to if there is to be any chance of a ‘balance of power’ advantage for the SNP

    52. Capella says:

      For the avoidance of doubt:

      A vote for the SNP in this election, therefore,
      is a vote to endorse the following position:
      • the people of Scotland have the right to
      choose their own future in a new referendum
      on becoming an independent country,
      • it must be for the Scottish Parliament
      not Westminster to decide when an
      independence referendum should be held –
      and the SNP intends that it will be in 2020.

      An SNP election victory will be a clear instruction
      by the people of Scotland that a new referendum on
      independence should be held next year, on a precise
      date to be determined by the Scottish Parliament.

      SNP Election Manifesto 2019 page 10.

      https://tinyurl.com/wpae39p

    53. Ottomanboi says:

      Brilliant punchy speech by the FM just now …..Brava Nicola!

    54. jfngw says:

      The MSM agenda now will be to minimise the SNP result. They won a Super Majority of MP’s (81%), much higher than the 67% threshold the unionist are always harking on about. Compare this to the 57% that the Tories have, which is described at a rock solid mandate.

      Either the SNP have a mandate or the Tories do not have a mandate, they have to choose. The SNP have a higher percentage of the Scottish vote in both Holyrood and Westminster than the Tories achieved yesterday..

    55. Juteman says:

      Great speech by the FM just now on BBC1.
      The battle has started!

    56. Republicofscotland says:

      Inspiring speech, and direct to the point by the FM on ITV a few minutes ago. She must now move with haste before Johnson drags us out of the EU, on the 31st of January.

      I’d imagine Johnsons 80 majority will, see his government debase even further the very poor EU deal already on the table.

      Meanwhile the Tory media has been sticking the boot into Corbyn all morning.

    57. John H. says:

      mike cassidy says:
      13 December, 2019 at 12:11 pm

      Feck me!

      I’m already thinking of GE2024
      …….

      Have you given up on independence Mike?

    58. wull says:

      Nicola Sturgeon won’t simply ‘ask for’ an S30. She will demand and require it. And she will do so ‘before Christmas’ or, most certainly, ‘before Dec 31’. So … the constitutional crisis starts NOW!

      If I am remembering it rightly, Boris Johnson promised we will be out of the EU by January 31 2020. I know his promises are worthless, but on this one – he’ll do it.

      I also know there are months and months of negotiations ahead on the detail, but once we have left the thing is done. That creates the constitutional crisis of itself, immediately. No matter what the negotiations eventually come up with, that’s it.

      Most people don’t pay attention to the detail anyway, even though it will affect their lives drastically. The votes in the North East of England, with Labour strongholds turning Tory, against their own interests and jeopardising their employment, demonstrates this.

      The only thing that needs thinking about is how each one of us can foster the push towards independence which is now upon us. The result of the election is already the firing gun: let’s get on with it. The time for bickering about the SNP ‘this’ and the SNP ‘that’. Whatever any one of us doesn’t like about them, they are now indisputably at the centre of the push for independence. We should be loaning our wagons to give them maximum support in the common struggle, not circling them to open their wounds by firing on them.

      That can come later, if necessary. Once independence has been won. By a joint, common and collective effort. There will be ‘no more shilly-shallying’ (like Jimmy Reid’s ‘no more bevvying’!). Even without the detail, we know what kind of Brexit will be. It’s a ‘Boris Brexit’, not a soft one. An uncompromising Boris Brexit is an assailable target, as of now.

      Let’s get the wagons drawn up in battle line, ready for the fray. With no more casualties from ‘friendly fire’ …

      Now IS the TIME … to GET INDEPENDENCE DONE.

    59. kapelmeister says:

      The next time Jo Swinson makes a parliamentary speech she’ll be known as Baroness Milngavie.

    60. Pete says:

      Just heard NS.
      Lots of SNP self congratulation and warnings of Armageddon once Brexit comes in.
      She also was making out that the Tories are to the right of Attila the Hun.
      Absolute bollocks, of course.
      If you look at the Tory manifesto, it shows huge increases in public spending and more state involvement with large infrastructure programmes. Just can’t see this extreme right wing thing.
      Very much a centrist government along the lines of New Labour under Blair.
      She actually said very little about indyref2 and stressed that some SNO voters don’t support independence.
      Actually got the feeling that she was quite happy with the status quo.
      Time will tell?

    61. wull says:

      In previous post, above, ‘the time for bickering about the SNP ‘this’ and the SNP ‘that’ should NOT stop there: it should have continued with ‘IS OVER’, as in: “the time for bickering about the SNP ‘this’ and the SNP ‘that’ is OVER!”

    62. Dave Robb says:

      It is usual for defeated candidates to give a speech acknowledging the victor. Having been soundly beaten as a voter at UK level. can I acknowledge the overwhelming victory for the BBC – Backing Boris Campaign – candidate Laura Keunssberg, her fellow candidate Nick Robinson – and their campaign managers at the BBC.

      On another note, I’ve just heard Nicola Sturgeon’s speech – 5 stars from me.

    63. Bob Mack says:

      Clearly there is a rift in this Union. Boris bas nejther the capability nor guile to repair it.He is confrontational and arrogant.

      Only three options remain open to him

      1. Give more powers to Holyrood.

      2. Neuter Holyrood completely or close it.

      3. Stall till 2021 elections hoping for a Unionist majority

      This is the beginning of the end game one way or another.

    64. Breeks says:


      Joe says:
      13 December, 2019 at 12:04 pm

      So, what if Brexit is a success?….

      Even if Brexit was a marvellous and glittering success, which it absolutely won’t be, it is still unconstitutional subjugation of the Scottish people, and for as long as 100 of us remain alive, we will never under any condition, be brought under English rule.

      Fuck Brexit. Scotland said No and we meant it.

    65. robertknight says:

      Mist001@12:09…

      “The automatic refusal of the article 30 is a given, so the request is only being put in for show. Let’s see what NS and the SNP have really got.”

      I disagree. Boris, either voluntarily or forced to by the UKSC, CAN bring legislation to Westminster to enable a S30(2) Order.

      HOWEVER, he can also give his backbenchers a free-vote in the sure-fire knowledge that they’ll vote down any such legislation.

      He can then have called the SNP’s bluff whilst ensuring IndyRef2 doesn’t happen.

      At that point, the SNP policy of Indy via IndyRef2 only is a busted flush.

    66. wull says:

      Why does the second poster in between my two posts ‘see’ and ‘hear’ the speech of the FM so differently from RepublicofScotland, Juteman and Ottomanboi just above? It was the same speech surely.

      Out of the four of them, I’ll go with the majority verdict. And repeat what I said above: NO MORE ATTEMPTS TO PILE UP PRO-INDEPENDENCE CASUALTIES FROM (SUPPOSEDLY) FRIENDLY FIRE. (Which sometimes – I am not saying in this particular case, but sometimes – comes only from those who are actually very unfriendly towards independence, and opposed to it. The ‘I am in disguise’ types …

      This is NOT THE TIME for any of that kind of thing. It IS THE TIME to become ‘YES Together’, in SOLIDARITY with each other FOR INDEPENDENCE. And, even those of us who are not 100% happy with the SNP, have to realise that we can’t win it without them.

    67. AndyMcKangry says:

      Breeks, your attacking the wrong guy!
      I pretty much agree with most of what you post, but it sounds like you had more whisky than I did!!
      If the borders and the NE keep voting Tory and No then what do you expect from the rest of us??

    68. wull says:

      I’ll go with Dave Robb (5 stars for NS) too, and Bob Mack as well (YES, this is indeed – one way or another – the beginning of the end game).

    69. ronnie anderson says:

      Pile the pressure on Westminster by the SNP MPs NOT swearing a oath of allegiance to the Crown = Constitutional Crisis + Nicola NOT signing up to Lizzie’s Chanty cooncil = another Constitutional Crisis .

    70. Dan says:

      @Stuart MacKay at 12:08 pm

      Nae bother, just didn’t want something mis-attributed to me.

      @ronnie anderson

      Aye, Lizzy better think very carefully about her UK Parliament passing policy re. leaving the EU that goes against the expressed sovereign will of the Scots.

    71. Bobp says:

      Al-stuart 12.03pm. Your on the money there, just surprised no one’s been on calling you all sorts of racist names, for stating the obvious.

    72. robertknight says:

      Bobp…

      Narrowest majority for Remain was in the RAF Lossiemouth / Kinloss Barracks area. Leuchars Barracks is in Fife NE, which we just lost to FibDems.

      Keep SNP Out tactics on the part of Yoon Parties pitching to the electorate attached to HM Forces? Probably.

      As for the rest – landed gentry, wealthy farmers and fisherfolk.

      I confess not to having a problem with those from rUK who live in Scotland and vote Yoon. It’s understandable. I DO however have a problem with Scots who vote Yoon. That I don’t understand.



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