The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

An uncommon act

Posted on August 26, 2018 by

Scotland’s newspapers are just one gigantic filthy avalanche of stinking, poisonous sewage today. They’re a disgrace to both journalism and humanity, and if we started listing the reasons why we wouldn’t be finished until sometime on Tuesday.

(Although some of it’s leaked out onto Twitter already.)

So instead, we’re going to do something we haven’t done before and probably never will again: we’re going to link you – unironically, unsarcastically and unarchived – to a post on the blog of the hyper-extremist SNP-hating BritNat fundamentalist zoombat “Effie Deans”, because astonishingly it occupies a moral plane infinitely far above any of the gutter-dredging, hate-crazed scum working in Scotland’s professional media.

That’s how far they’ve sunk. Effie Deans is looking down on them like an astronaut gazing from high orbit into the darkest depths of the Marianas Trench.

This is it here. And that’s all we have to say on the subject.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 26 08 18 10:56

    An uncommon act | speymouth

266 to “An uncommon act”

  1. ScottieDog says:

    It was actually well written.

  2. Croompenstein says:

    Effie will have some traffic spike today.. I have to say I liked the post.

  3. Capella says:

    Astonishing honesty from a Unionist. Perhaps Effie has some knowledge of the law on defamation. Perhps Effie is beginning to understand where the black propaganda is going.

  4. Cuilean says:

    Effie Deans is a Walter Scott character.

    Who is the real blogger? Anyone know?

    Whoever they are; respect.

  5. Weechid says:

    FFS. What’s the world coming to when we agree with Effie, particularly on the idea that “sex” is a special case when it comes to crime. This UK govt getting away with grand scale theft and murder yet people not batting an eylid – but have the allegation of “inappropriate sexual behaviour” against you and you are instantly condemned and thought of as guilty until proven innocent. I hate this world more and more every day.

  6. Brochan says:

    Yes, she is some wumman Effie.

    Normally one of the most bitter, poisonous, downright evilly disposed people online she, unlike you, did not block me on Twitter for disagreeing with her so I can’t read your Twitter hyperlink. 😉

  7. laukat says:

    They really didn’t want Alex Salmond to return to front line politics. Makes you think that they believe the opportunity to return was both imminent (snap general election) and would have created real opportunity for an Independent Scotland (extreme brexiteer government).

    Can’t believe that the Scottish press are on day 3 of this. At a time when we have Rees-Mogg wanting the restoration of the troubles in Northern Ireland, the partial release of no deal papers and potentially a president that the Tories want to get into bed with about to get impeached. Its almost as if they want to make Scottish media so parochial to show that understanding world affairs is beyond us Scots and only for the sophisticated Westminster elite.

    The sooner all of the papers disappear for good can’t come quick enough. They serve no useful purpose and no one will shed a tear when they are gone.

  8. Flower of Scotland says:

    I saw your link on Twitter to the Effie Deans piece and read it.

    There can never be a fair justice system in Scotland if the Newspapers are allowed to conduct a smear campaign. The Daily Record and Sunday Mail are conducting a smear campaign on ALex Salmond without anyone being able to do anything about it.

    Where,s the justice? And for once Effie Deans is right!

  9. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The real story here is that some person(s) have illicitly released these accusations.
    They should be charged.
    As Mr Salmond to date does not even know what he is accused off yet insinuations are across every paper in the land the chance of any fair outcome in the longer term after this deliberate defamation are now nil.
    In most cases such action prejudicial to any balanced outcome would result in any legal proceedings being abandoned.

  10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “she, unlike you, did not block me on Twitter for disagreeing with her”

    I don’t block anyone for disagreeing with me. I block them for acting like a wank, whether they agree with me or not.

  11. Ken500 says:

    Is Effie Deans actually sticking up for Alex. In a weird, nonsensical way, You just could not make this up. ‘It’s not true but mud and lies stick’?

    The Tories have been awful quiet, except for Wells. Enough said. So it looks like they are behind it.

    The only ones who seem to be buying into this is the ‘Press’. Tanking. How low can they go? When it is proved untrue hope Alex sues them for as much as possible. Highly likely. Tommy Sheridan and Cliff Richards did and won. The people hacked got £Millions.

    It will put up support for Alex and Independence.

    The only thing Alex Salmond is interested in is politics and injustice. Hardly likely to frolics and fumble with some civil servant. Why did the supposed offended one not just walk away. Alex Salmond hardly every drinks. Never known to be intoxicated. He knows every action is scrutinised.

    The whole story is so improbable. It looks like someone made it up. There had better be times, dates and witnesses etc. Scotland has already got one elected FM. It does not need another unionist civil service one. Getting more highly paid

    When people think they could not get more annoyed, upset and angry. The ‘Press’ make it so. Many people would love to confront Clegg, Gordon, Foote, Leask and give their frank opinion. How these people can sleep at night is a mystery. They are making sure no one else can, increasing anxiety. Just a load of complete and utter liars.

    Everyone is so sick of this. How can the ‘Press’ be so, so out of touch with public opinion.

  12. winifred McCartney says:

    It certainly tells you all you need to know about the MSM and the BBC when someone like that is talking sense and fairness. I think the Record knows that there will be no charges but is making sure as much damage is done as possible before no charges are brought.

    The Scot Govt (WM civil service section) should be called out and made to conduct an enquiry to find out who leaked to the Daily Record and to the Labour Party.

  13. Abulhaq says:

    A voice of reason and common sense. In a time when accidentally brushing against another person may be deemed ‘assault’ and ‘false memory’ is a well documented psychological condition among some individuals caution ought to be exercised in such matters. Innocence must be presumed until legally proven otherwise. Allegations do destroy lives.
    Salmond is a big target. Bringing him down would suit a number of political agendas.
    Given the hyper sexed-up character of contemporary western culture we might be expected to be less ‘snowflaky’, more mature and ’urbane’ in such matters.

  14. Donald anderson says:

    Today’s papers have nothing in them but adverts; sport, celebrities and SNP Baaaad filth. Have they no they respect for their profession, even for themselves?

    The Sunday Herald was little better in blandness. Ah could dae better masel’. Hope the new edition will have better columnists.

  15. Ken500 says:

    If Rev Stu did not block the usual subjects. They would destroy the site. Their obvious intentions. The reason it survives and is so influential. They have destroyed every other sites by backing unionists and blocking Independistas. Every major unionist paper. All of them.

    Without a free and fair Press there is no democracy. Westminster makes sure there is no free and fair Press. Breaking ministerial code of conduct. Thatcher gave the Press illegally over to right wing Murdoch. The Press now owned by tax evading non Doms. Colluding with Westminster. A total toxic relationship for inhibiting freedom, fairness and democracy.

  16. Bobp says:

    Weechid its not the world weechid. Its the poisonous scum in it who dictate and lie to the rest of us.

  17. Ken500 says:

    Effie Deans is a former Aberdeen? Uni lecturer. Retired. Arch unionist. At times appears to be deranged,

  18. Glamaig says:

    Yes the real story is a) a potentially innocent person can be vilified and smeared with impunity on front pages across the entire press, on the allegation of one person; and b) the leak by the civil service.

    I hope the media have gone too far with this and it wakes even more people up to what they are.

  19. Ken500 says:

    Any one can read @ Wings twitter or other. You do not need to be on twitter. Just google or whatever it. You can’t reply or twit but anyone can read it.

  20. annrayner says:

    I cannot comment on Alex Salmons guilt or innocence until this has been tested in court. However, two things worry me; firstly the timing when, as pointed out above, things are moving over Brexit and another possible Indyref so and getting him out of politics for a while would benefit some factions, and secondly, that this could be a fishing process with the idea of flushing out others who might speak up and give credence to these allegations.

  21. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Let’s all talk about independence again. OK?

  22. Bob Mack says:

    Kudos to Effie. She will take some grief for that article from the Unionist side.

    She only points out the simple truth, that there are two sides to every story ,and in order for the truth to be established, they both have to be heard.

    Trial by newspaper has too often proved faulty, as in the case of Mr Jeffrey who was practically convicted of murder by the press before the real culprit was found.

    Defence is an important part of the legal system. In Mr Salmonds case it was denied him. That is a basic yet important infringement of natural justice regardless of the events and the truth or unreliability of their presentation.

    Would we want such a system in our courts where you are convicted without being able to put your case? I think and hope not.

  23. ScottishPsyche says:

    The hate-filled boil that has been festering for a decade has now been lanced for the Scottish press. I suppose we know now why The Scotsman takeover fell by the wayside.

    I cannot bear them, to a man and woman they are the absolute dregs and how they sleep at night is beyond me. They could have risen above their tribalism and old hatreds and dealt with this with the professionalism and detachment they always claim.

    They have the cheek to then demand that the SNP behave with a morality they cannot understand or could never aspire to. For me this marks the end for them, there is no way back.

  24. Glamaig says:

    winifred McCartney says:
    26 August, 2018 at 11:14 am

    ‘I think the Record knows that there will be no charges but is making sure as much damage is done as possible before no charges are brought’

    Exactly, if there was going to be a case they have certainly prejudiced it. They know what they are doing and will have consulted their lawyers. It’s two birds with one stone for them, an opportunity to smear a political opponent, and make a buck by selling extra copy with lurid allegations.

  25. Ken500 says:

    Some people once spoke to the ‘Press’. An economic journalist. Times? On Channel 4. Who was actually quite enlightened and sympathetic to Scotland’s predicament. At least in private. The rest of them Cochrane etc cowering in the (rogues) press gallery at the Conference. Can’t hide the vacant coupon of contempt for the mass support. Although not much has been heard from him recently.

  26. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s a hypothetical – if I picked a ‘journalist’ at random, say David Leask, and then made up some crap about him feeling my arse on the Glasgow-Edinburgh train sometime back in late 2013, what would be the procedure then? I contact one of his 5000 employers and complain? They guarantee me anonymity, I can give them the gory details in confidence. But then, as if by magic, those details of the (entirely imagined) groping end up in the ‘news’ and poor auld Leasky is universally pilloried as a bum-feeler?

    Is that how this works?

    Leasky lied about this site just t’other day and called us all names. Then he got all sniffy and how-very-dare-you with me because I tweeted that he reminded me of the wee dude in the Benny Hill Show who used to get his napper slapped by everyone. I have more than enough reason to dislike the guy. But he didn’t feel my arse on the train and me saying he did doesn’t make it so. Such a ‘story’ might, if spread far and wide, even get him into trouble, but that would require the kind of genuine conspiratorial behaviour which so many seem to believe is impossible.

    (Leasky is an interesting case because, not that long ago, he faced an accusation that he was a spook, an asset of the intelligence services. No smoke without fire there? No problem – Leasky simply laughed it off, as if he’d been fingered for nabbing the last Kit-Kat from the biscuit barrel.)

  27. Alison Duncan says:

    Todays Sunday Herald has no mention of Alec Salmond on front page – unlike (as far as I could see at a quick glance) every other paper on display!
    (There is an article inside)

  28. Valerie says:

    I didn’t understand Rev’s tweet about a snowball fight in Hell.

    That blog does read remarkably sensible. I think the point is made, if any of us try to exercise empathy. How would you feel if you had no knowledge of what was being said?

    Local government has had decades to hone disciplinary procedures, and imo, were pretty good. As a senior manager, I had to sit in judgement on quite a few.

    They did follow natural justice. Were detailed for all to see. Open to any relevant evidence, or information. Staff were free to have a support or TU person with them. There were appeals at each stage. Staff may not have liked them, but most certainly understood why they were there, their Rights, and could see why a decision had been made. Everything was in writing, which made managers very careful, and rightly so, because it’s very stressful.

    I understand the rationale for anonymity of these complainants, Scotgov defends it by saying, without anonymity, lots of sexual complaints won’t be reported, and I do understand that.

    However, what I absolutely do not understand, is why Alex is not afforded that, when it an allegation being investigated?

    Also, why is there all manner of salacious detail, real or imagined, in the R**ord? Who has given those complaints to Clegg?

    I also find it odd, that this new process was drawn up in Dec. 2017, and two complaints land about Salmond in Jan. 2018, that date back to 2013?

  29. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Alex Salmond tried to have it off with a woman! Oo-ee mammy. Having no effect whatsoever with most folk – except an understanding that the media and its establishment controllers will stoop to any depth to have a go at the SNP.

    Signs of this rebounding.

  30. Davey says:

    All of Scotland’s newspapers? What about the The National? (Before someone else says it, yes, I know it’s published by Newsquest.)

  31. jfngw says:

    I wonder if they really believe we want independence purely because of Alex Salmond. Even if he was found guilty of some misdemeanour what exactly has that to do with Scotland’s independence or place in Europe. It may have increased the sales of tissues to the editorial rooms of Scotland’s MSM given the excitement it seems to have caused, but most of us are still focused on the main prize, not some sideshow.

    They really do want that RT programme off air, I was expecting something like this to turn up. It was either going to be sex or money, the MSM prefer sex.

    Even worse we have a Labour politician who claimed to be sexually harassed but unwilling to name anyone being interviewed as a moral compass by the BBC. The hypocrisy is set to 11, this person puts the party first, there is no moral judgement that this person can throw at anyone unless she is willing to name names.

  32. Dr Jim says:

    The masses must be satisfied with something just make it a good believable something:

    When you seek to create a law to do a good thing you have to be prepared for the fact that bad people will misuse that law to do a bad thing and in the creation of this law it misses the improvement in the equality of women and exceptionalises them and that creates inequality for men, result, a bad law badly implemented and if misused bad consequences for victims and accused and the law

    The law must have no gender you can’t complain inequality then alter the burden of proof balance and laws of evidence in favour of one gender over another *just because* something happens more to women than men you have to find a way of making better law or we have now the resultant consequence which is no matter the outcome of the current case everybody connected with this case (alleged victim) (alleged perpetrator) and the law itself loses, which then leads on to the architects of the law now under scrutiny which opens up a whole other can of unsavoury worms that we’d all have been better of had none of this ever happened and that’s an even bigger long term worry

    And the newspapers will spread that on their wee biscuits like *caviar* and is this where it’s all going anyway

    One thing we know for sure the truth will out is not a real thing, the truth will be what we tell you it is

  33. ALANM says:

    Politicians exist to pass laws and therefore it’s somewhat ironic when they find themselves victims of their own bad laws. I’m no lawyer but it’s clear to me that decades spent tinkering with the legal system have stripped away many of our hard-won legal rights while we’ve all stood back and done nothing.

    I don’t think it’s a exaggeration to say that most of us don’t now have any legal rights (unless we’ve got access to pots of cash that is). You just need to consider what’s happened to Rev. Stu during the past couple of years to realise just how vulnerable we’ve all become.

  34. Thepnr says:

    I read the Effie Deans piece after the Rev tweeted it and it looks to me like a work of total common sense. I think that protecting the anonymity of both the accused and the accuser until a full inquiry has been concluded is how things are meant to happen.

    This has obviously not happened in this case and Alex Salmond now faces trial by media.

    Effie Deans in particular talks about the delay of 5 years making a difference to finding a clear outcome and that any allegations of sexual harassment or assault should be made ASAP after the incident.

    This I totally agree with and in the case of sexual harassment at work which is covered by the Equality Act 2010 the claim has to be made within three months of the alleged harassment or it goes no further and an Employemnt Tribunal would not hear the case.

    The Equality Act 2010 – which offers protection at work – sets out a clear framework and covers what is most people’s experience of sexual harassment, says Ms Miller.

    It includes sexual jokes on email, hugging and staring in a sexually suggestive way.

    However, she says the legislation leaves the victim to do “all the running”.

    They have to highlight the Equality Act to their manager and, if that doesn’t help, take their case to a tribunal.

    A claim must be brought within three months of the alleged act of harassment and a claim can be made simultaneously against the employer and the perpetrator.

    Ms Miller believes the government should look at giving the Equality Act, which covers England, Wales and Scotland, more “teeth” by making elements statutory as with, for example, maternity rights.

  35. Albaman says:

    I would not be surprised to see D. Clegg leading an Orange Order march, with banner held high, ==
    “I got Salmond “

  36. The Daily Record is owned by the same company as The Daily Express,(Reach plc)

    DR supports British Labour Party the DE supports British Conservative and Unionist Party,

    Reach plc get 63 of the 145 Local Democracy Reporters,funded by the State through the BBC,

    Reach plc will receive nearly £45,000,000 over the LDR contract,

    private Media giants are being funded by the State,

    the State hates Alex Salmond especially now his talk show,shown on the hated RT, has been such a success,

    even a full on Tonto Britnat like ED can smell the stench of State-Media collusion in this whole stitch up.

  37. Ken500 says:

    The Scotsman JP still have £200Million debt that has to be restructed by 2019. Looks more like there will be a fire sale. Assets sold off. Ashley Highfield CEO left in In June paid off. Express has been taken over by the Mirror group. Trinity Press. For little more than was paid for it 10 years ago. Although £Millions was taken out of it.

    Daily Mail. Dacre is going in September. Replaced.

  38. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Reminds me a little of

  39. cyril mitchell says:

    Perhaps MI5 uses the Record

  40. R Witterington says:

    Trial by media

  41. Ken500 says:

    The naming of a potiential accused is linked to more evidence or potential witnesses coming forward. It is quite legitimate. In Scotland corroboration requires two witnesses. In potiential sexual cases (rape) that make it difficult to get a conviction. Just by it’s nature it is highly unlikely anyone else will be around. There is a case for no corroboration in rape cases. There should only be required one witness. The victims past behaviour is admissible but not the defendant. Although that is changing.

    The thing is Alex Salmond was not given details of the charges being made. So could not organise a Defence. No person should not know the accusations. It is too ridiculous.

    Recently in England evidence was withheld from the Defence that would have been relevant, The Chief Prosecuter resigned.

    In the US all the evidence is disclosed. There are Press conferences. So any other evidence or witnesses come forward.

    It is disgraceful Assange has been held up in the Embassy for years, after committing no crime. The Tory spite. With a change of UK Gov he could be released.

  42. Cubby says:

    My son once asked me why when there are plenty of Catholics living in England and Wales the only significant sectarian bigotry exists in N Ireland and Scotland.

    Answer: divide and conquer. Westminster has used this tactic for centuries across the world to retain control of its colonies. The Unionists in Scotland and Ireland cannot bring themselves to face the truth that they are being used.

  43. gus1940 says:

    Could it be the case that the really clever bit of this obvious conspiracy to destroy Eck is the deliberate leaking of the details to The Record and the subsequent outbreak of shouting from the rooftops by the rest of the broadcast and print propaganda media which effectively prejudices any chance of charges being laid and a subsequent trial being fair.

    Of course this would leave the sword of doubt hanging over Eck’s head and and achieve the aim of the whole exercise namely to make it well nigh impossible in their eyes to revive his political career in any future election. They may be in for a surprise as far as that is concerned.

    I hope that Eck takes the whole effing lot of them to the cleaners and I mean the leaker(s), Record including individual ‘journalists’ and the rest of the media plus the politicians from the British Nationalist parties who have jumped on the bandwagon.

  44. Clootie says:

    …I try to take articles and posts on content and not writers political leaning.
    I found the article of a good standard.

    In comparison to the Herald, Scotsman etc I must agree that it was to a much higher standard than their normal output.

  45. @Ken500

    Trinity Mirror has rebranded to Reach plc.

    Reach plc own the britnat Daily Record and Daily Express.

  46. Les Wilson says:

    I do not believe for one minute that there is a case against Alex Salmond, all who know or have met him will see that too.

    He is a gentleman in many ways.
    However, he is also a patriot of standing, and there is the issue for Yoonery and all it’s devious parts.

    I would hope that Police Scotland decide on which action to take and take it quickly. Personally I think it will be dropped, but again, depending on how quickly Police Scotland act.

    Otherwise we will have what the drivel want, and it will just drag on aka Michelle. If and when it is dropped and accusations were unsuccessful, then Alex should go through all the blogs Newspapers, Tv reports etc and sue the arse off all of them who can be sued for their words, spoken or written.

    Needless to say, I stand 100% behind Alex.

  47. Daisy Walker says:

    have had computer problems for a few days, so catching up. Thank you Nana for all the links, always appreciated.

    Am struck by the body language of those who are falsely accused – Cliff Richard being the most recent example. I don’t recall ever seeing an actor managing to capture that atmosphere. A very difficult thing to fake.

    I can only speak from opinion, but to me AS, has the same air about him as one falsely accused. I wish him all the best and a scrupulously fair and thorough legal procedure – as this is the way to clear his name.

    A few thoughts – Westminster – who within hours of Cliff Richards case, and the Judges remonstration for privacy in such cases – applied it to their MP’s as soon as they could. Obviously this ‘best practice’ does not extend to Scots.

    Timing of this action – terribly convenient with regards the Peoples Vote / Brexit. Will it be used to try and divide and conquer the SNP, then pressurise it to support the UK People’s Vote. Bet they try.

    Also timing – too soon, too soon after Sir Cliff Richard’s case. Rather think the public are a looking at this through a weathered eye.

    Damage limitation – is it possible if the SNP had provided legal rep (and I don’t know if it was offered) to Michelle Thomson to take a robust action against the papers damaging her rep, that at least some of the Newspaper ‘reporters’ might be caw’n canny at this time, with regards what they fling.’ I’m sure AS will litigate in full.

    Nicola Sturgeon – I read somewhere concerns that she did not provide more support in her statement – they found it cold. Well maybe it was, but I don’t think she could have done it any different. Even the slightest comment of support for AS would have been blown out of all proportion by the Press and given fuel to allegations of bias.

    Difficult times. Still we never did think they would fight fair did we?

    Yes we can, now we must. One bit of decency at a time. Peace and love to all.

  48. Suzanne says:

    I’m more than surprised that ED has come down on the side of fairness. That’s not Deans’s MO at all and never has been, so why the change? I haven’t and won’t read it as I’ve got the gist but if that’s ED’s genuine response well good on him / her; the trouble is that after all the previous vile attacks and lies from that account I find it hard to trust the motives.

  49. Thepnr says:

    The Equality Act 2010 is a case of civil law and is there to protect employees from being subjected to unpleasant behaviour in the workplace from colleagues and others associated with the business.

    If after an employer carries out an investigation they believe that the accused has in fact gone further and that in fact a criminal offence such as assault has occurred then they may choose to report the matter to the police. The person who believes that they have been assaulted could report the matter to the police at any time of course.

    The police will then complete an investigation of their own and either drop it altogether through lack of evidence or hand it over to the Procurator’s office who will decide whether or not to pursue a prosecution for the alleged offence.

    This appears to be what is currently ongoing with the allegations made against Alex Salmond as the police we are led to believe have been informed and are at the early stages of their own investigation.

    All of this investigating takes time and with the accused’s name having already been leaked to the media they will extract every morsel of juiciness from the story while they can, even though the case might never see the inside of a courtroom.

    Innocence or guilt doesn’t matter to the media even though a tremendous amount of damage will be done to the accused’s reputation, even if found not guilty.

    Most of the damage having been done by the media themselves.

  50. Marie Clark says:

    Oh good grief! Effie Deans talking common sense for once. I think I might have to go and lie down in a darkened room after this.

    Anyway, think how much this is taking attention away from the ungodly mess that is brexit, and Trump’s allies talking immunity with the prosecutors and all the other things going on tin the world. Back to independence boys and girls.

    Oor Eck, is politically astute and a wily character to boot. I kinda get the feeling that all this nonsense around him is going to come back and bite someone very badly on the bahookey.

  51. gus1940 says:

    The Scotsman has been systematically stripped of assets over the years since the horrible Barclays took over.

    First of all under Brillo they flogged off the old beautiful Scotsman building and built a new Scotsman building at Holyrood.

    When JP took the paper off the Barclays’ hands they decamped from the Holyrood building (still owned I understand by the Barclays) and moved the drastically slimmed down operation to rented accommodation in Orchard Brae House probably with rented fixtures and fittings.

    They also closed down and flogged off the relatively new Edinburgh printing plant.

    This leads to the question of just what are the current assets of Scotsman Publications other than the much devalued worth of the title plus possibly some computer equipment.

    Surely somebody could take it off JP’s hands and make it into a newspaper again – JP need the money – but perhaps dark figures in London would stop that happening.

  52. frogesque says:

    As a small aside, Trinity Mirror Group bought various titles including the Express, Star and other titles earlier this year.

    Poison seeping under the carpet?

  53. cearc says:

    I would like to have a legal system based on innocent until proven guilty.

    In other words, no name should be published unless they have been found guilty.

  54. Legerwood says:

    Daisy Walker says:
    26 August, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    No one who saw Ms Sturgeon being interviewed by Glenn Campbell for Reporting Scotland on this issue would be left in any doubt about how deeply upset she was over this issue and what she knew would be the treatment of Mr Salmond by the media. I thought she was close to tears at points.

    As to the statement, it was exactly as it should have been under the circumstances, that is, factual, giving a timeline and keeping strictly within legal limits which it had to be when there were legal proceedings in the offing.

    Her Statement together with Mr Salmond’s, in which he refers to his action against the “Scottish Government” are important in establishing timelines and parameters which rapidly become blurred in the fetid, feeding frenzy that is the hallmark of media reporting on things like this.

    A third statement that is important is this from the journalist who broke the story, important because some people are already saying it was Mr Salmond who went to the press when, as this shows, it was the press who went to him.
    The statement said:
    “”The Daily Record’s political editor, David Clegg, broke the story. He tweeted: “The dam broke on this when I put some of the allegations to Salmond at 8 p.m. tonight and informed him we were planning to publish in tomorrow’s Daily Record. Salmond responded at 9.30 p.m. with his statement on the legal action. This was then sent to other newspapers as a spoiler.”

    “”What happens next:

    “”Salmond will today seek a judicial review of the way the Scottish government — which he ran until 2014 — is handling the complaints. STV’s Holyrood Editor Colin Mackay said in his bulletin last night that he had just spoken to a “very angry” Salmond, who he said will give a TV interview this afternoon once the court case has been heard. (Watch the clip here.) The Times’ Iain Martin reports Salmond may even give a full press conference today, though nothing has been confirmed as yet.””

    Someone posted that on an earlier thread. Worth holding on to it.

  55. Thepnr says:

    This will be my last word on the subject of the allegations made against Alex Salmond and the conduct of the press in the light of these allegations.

    It should be illegal for any media outlet to repeat allegations against anyone BEFORE the police have completed their investigations and that person has been charged with an offence.

    Trial by media is totally unjust for anyone and possibly even more unjust for the most well known, the damage to that individuals reputation can be so bad that those such as Alex Massie can exclaim loudly in The Sunday Times that:

    “Whatever happens, it’s over for Salmond”

    I think Massie is wrong in this assertion, putting aside the upcoming Judicial review that has been instigated by Alex Salmond I don’t see this coming anywhere near a courtroom.

    For that to happen, Alex Salmond will have to be prosecuted for sexual assault, which is what the Daily Record was insinuating in their “scoop” yesterday. Alleging the complaint involved unwanted touching in one of the bedrooms of Bute House.

    This is what the law says on the crime of sexual assault:

    Sexual Offences Act 2003 Section 3

    3 Sexual assault

    (1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

    a. he intentionally touches another person (B),

    b. the touching is sexual,

    c. B does not consent to the touching, and

    d. A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

    (2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

    (3) Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.

    (4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—

    a. on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;

    b. on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years.

    I hope Alex Massie comes to regret his words though won’t hold my breath as Journalists believe regret is for other people.

  56. aitchbee says:

    The thing I find jarring about the whole thing is that Alex Salmond is generally agreed to be a very sharp political operator. The incident in question is alleged to have taken place in the middle of the referendum campaign, so it would seem very odd behaviour from an experienced politician who was well aware that any hint of impropriety would be seized on to discredit the entire independence campaign.

  57. Black Joan says:

    There also seems to be a very surprisingly “balanced” quote from Annie Wells (in the Herald, I think).

  58. Clapper57 says:

    Those individuals on Twitter and the gutter press that are basking in what they are collectively presenting as a slam dunk should perhaps reflect more on the overkill of the story that they are promoting.

    Their far too obvious euphoric glee that this is somehow a fait accompli, and therefore should be seen as the guaranteed downfall of a hugely influential figure within the Yes movement and that his downfall should be presently seen, minus the full facts and details known, as a feasible and apt outcome in all of this.

    If this is their desired result i.e. Salmond destroyed , this may entice them to over estimate their influence in manipulating the opinions of those non partisan members of the public, and thus they should perhaps consider delaying their so very public and premature victory celebrations as the public are perhaps more canny than presupposed by the unscrupulous media and opportunistic opposing politicians.

    If someone is being so obviously publicly tried and found guilty by what can only be perceived as a kangaroo court ,courtesy of the press and anti SNP/Indy fraternity , then perhaps the public should question the motives behind those who are casting with such relish so many aspersions and assumptions of guilt.

    This story has generated many comparisons with #MeToo and the Harvey Weinstein case with the main huge difference being that the accused, Mr Salmond, was not privy to WHO was accusing him indeed even of WHAT he was being accused of at the time the story broke in the media.

    The leaking of this story to the DR raises many questions and mainly why it was leaked to the press and by whom.

    Sadly there is no winner in this situation and that is because no one knows the truth apart from the accused and the accusers however we must expect the predictable onslaught of SNP guilty by association which those, of whom there are many, will use with no shame and with impunity.

    The only aspect of this that one can comment on with confidence is the predictable media frenzy and political capital being made by those political parties and media who themselves have proven, by both past and current actions, that they themselves have no distinction nor moral high horse to look down upon either Mr Salmond or the SNP.

    They , themselves, are not guilt free when it comes to crossing moral boundaries !! So who are they to challenge with no proof the morals of another.It is also worth mentioning that we all KNOW the purpose of the media and tis not to inform but to influence and in this case we know who they are trying to influence , why they are trying to influence them, what it is that they are trying to influence and that is why I do not now or will ever support or believe anything written or spoken about Scotland via the MSM….in fact many opposition political parties are not averse to adopting the very same tactics.

    I hope the truth will, in this instance , come out and my thoughts are, at this time, with Mr Salmond and his family.

  59. Ken500 says:

    Subpoena M15. They will know exactly what was going on. Surveilling Alex.

    Will Alex Salmond be slightly emjoying it? Putting the unionist civil service in the spot.

    Nicola was upset.

  60. Arthur thomson says:

    Because we are committed to principled government we are all vulnerable to attack by the unprincipled. But we MUST stick to being principled. That is the reason the FM has taken the stance she has and I fully support her.

    All over the world we see examples of the awful consequences when those who have genuine grievance are persuaded to react in unprincipled ways.

    We Scots, whatever our roots, are civilised people and must rise above the base standards of those who equate principle with naivety and weakness. We have to provide a lead to our children, our grand children and the world at large.

    I have no doubt that Eck will be entirely principled in facing this challenge and we will be strengthened as a result.

  61. Grouse Beater says:

    If proved a set-up, allegations dismissed by police and Procurator Fiscal, it signifies opponents saw a chance to kill two birds with one arrow, Sturgeon hoisted with her own petard, two key colleagues driven apart.

    Published 2am Saturday morning, my contribution here:

  62. Robert Peffers says:

    @Cuilean says: 26 August, 2018 at 10:56 am:

    ” … Effie Deans is a Walter Scott character.
    Who is the real blogger? Anyone know?”

    Yes we do, Cuilean. She works at Aberdeen University and is the author of several historic Novels. She is also as leaping mad as the proverbial carton of live amphibians. This is a nom de plume but I can’t remember the persons real name. As an authoress it shouldn’t be too hard to Google it.


  63. Black Joan says:

    The second paragraph of Nicola Sturgeon’s statement says, “These complaints have been considered since then under a procedure covering ministers and former ministers that was agreed by me in December 2017 in the wake of public concern about harassment.”

    Alex Salmond is seeking judicial review re procedure.

    The allegations about events said to have taken place in December 2013 were made in January 2018, the month following the First Minister’s agreement to the new procedure.

    Who drafted the new procedure? How was it publicised?

  64. Clapper57 says:

    Re my previous comments on #MeToo and Harvey Weinstein comparison on Salmond ….twas BBC Scotland’s Glenn Campbell who said this in a report via Rep Scotland…yep I know …they are never slow at jumping the conclusion gun where SNP and all who are associated with them are concerned…. are they !

  65. Black Joan says:

    Posts seem very slow to appear here at the moment.

    Question I tried to raise (above?) now being discussed on twitter:

  66. Macart says:

    The media proving what most have known since before Leveson.

    They are what they are and they do what they do. Not from any sense of informing or protecting the public, but from pure self interest.

  67. george wood says:

    My comments are in general not specific to the AS case.

    If you apply the same rules to sex crimes as you do to other crimes, then you are not going to get as many convictions. Most sex crimes have no other witnesses present at the time. The article is naive in that respect.

    Anonimity can be of benefit to the guilty as well as the innocent. It is much harder to show a pattern of behavior if nobody knows there is an investigation is going on. Showing a pattern of behavior is one way of getting round the problem that most sex crimes are one person’s word against anothers.

    Victims, who are reluctant to report incidents, may be more inlined to do so if they hear that they are not alone in their allegations. People in positions of power rely on people feeling that they are on their own and powerless to do anything about it.

  68. Proud Cybernat says:

    So in the couple of weeks we’ve had:

    1) BBC censoring the Youtube channels of high-profile indy supporters.

    2) SNP accused of funding the making of bombs that killed kids in Yemen.

    3) High profile YES bloggers/activists having much of the content in their Facebook pages taken down without any notice from FB.

    4) Alex Salmond accused of sexual impropriety (and denied the means to properly defend himself).

    The British Nationalist Establishment is certainly ramping things up.

    I love the smell of BritNat fear in the morning.

  69. Effijy says:

    Facts that you can rely on:

    Everyone is presumed innocent until Proven guilty!

    UK Media is entirely owned by the establishment through the fabulously wealthy. Their only interest is in manipulating the public that they can continue their work of keeping the wealth of the establishment and ensuring that it grows exponentially.

    The truth, the 2 sides to the story, and all relevant matters on any issue have no place in UK journalism.

    Lies, distortion, cover up, all available every day in every form of UK Media, and every Westminster based political party and the DUP.

  70. bob says:

    So, Zoomer plot, SNP fuck up, or just a wronged woman?

  71. Dan Huil says:

    Still glad I don’t buy britnat newspapers. Boycott all of them.

  72. Liz g says:

    Black Joan @ 2.27
    I’d like to see the procedure too Joan.
    The bit that’s bothering me is the report (if true ) that the woman in charge was considering weather or not to put the information in the public domain!!!
    Then if the Daily Rag is to be believed…she went ahead and did so.
    That it’s up to one person to inform the media at all,a person who is, neither, the accuser or the accused,seems to me,to not only be wrong… but very much open to abuse!
    No one should have that kind of power!

  73. Terry says:

    If David Clegg asks, tell him,, of course you buy the Daily Record every day,after all, it is cheaper than toilet roll.

  74. Sunniva says:

    It wouldn’t surprise me if the AS accusations are politically motivated. It just smells of a very crude smear.

    I have a happy feeling that they will backfire and that it will be a turning point.

    Effie is right that it is insane that somebody like Cliff Richard can be falsely accused and have their life turned upside down. The poor man was exonerated but is looking visibly much older after his ordeal.

  75. Thepnr says:

    @Black Joan

    “Who drafted the new procedure?”

    I think that all we do know is that it was drafted after the Permanent Secretary at the Scottish Government(Head civil servant Leslie Evans) and the First Minister agreed that one should be drafted.

    Her statement made to the press on Friday only tells you that they agreed and not who’s idea it was that a new procedure was needed or who would draft it.

    “Last November, I agreed with the First Minister that, in light of wider concerns about harassment in Westminster and the Scottish Parliament, an internal review would be carried out into the Scottish Government’s procedures for handling complaints in the workplace. As part of that review, a new procedure on handling harassment complaints involving current or former ministers was introduced.”

    However Alex Salmond in his statement from Thursday night did say:

    “In my opinion and for whatever reason the Permanent Secretary has decided to mount a process against me using an unlawful procedure which she herself introduced. I will let a real court decide whether it was lawful for her to do so.”

    “How was it publicised?”

    I don’t think it would have been publicised as why should it be?

    The thing I thought odd though is that it was available internally on the Scottish governments servers once written but was then uploaded to the web and made accessible to all the public at 11:40pm on Thursday night, less than 2 hours after Alex Salmond made his statement via twitter.

    “The Scottish Government published advice on the handling of harassment complaints against former ministers less than two hours after allegations against Alex Salmond were made public…”

    “The Scottish Government guidance, which was agreed in December 2017 and uploaded onto the internal civil service intranet at that time, was published at 11.40pm on Thursday.”

    The procedure is available if you want a read at this link:

    These are good questions though, as it is this new procedure “on handling harassment complaints involving current or former ministers” that is at the centre of Alex Salmond’s challenge in the courts with a judicial review.

  76. Clapper57 says:

    @ Effijy @ 2.46pm

    Yes effijy, and will the DUP’s Ian Paisley return to HOC as though his pathetic performance in his ‘live’ apology in HOC was sufficient to justify his return….guilty yet admonished through his faux contrition ( translated as had to own up as caught out)!

    And what of these new rules as voted for by MP’s in HOC, which was slipped through , where MP’s who are being investigated by parliamentary authorities, irrespective of charge, will no longer be publicly named and shamed….thus their morals will never be put to question both during investigation and BEFORE case is fully investigated and concluded….and if complaint not upheld then we, the public, will be none the wiser.

    Even complaints of a sexual offences will not be disclosed , as apparently it will cause ‘irreparable damage’ to their reputation….ah that old…. rule for them and rules for us mere mortals. My oh my they really do look after their own…and yet expect us, the public, to trust in them and look up to them…while they adopt these glaringly obvious double standards.

  77. Sunniva says:

    As a politically motivated smear it seems crude and has all the grubby hallmarks of coming from the Labour side.

    Leaked to the Record.

    Labour repeating calls for AS to be kicked out of the SNP.

    All those who jump on this pile of filth will live to regret it.

  78. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    The British Nationalist Establishment is certainly ramping things up.

    I love the smell of BritNat fear in the morning.

    My comment here is not about AS specifically, but the deluge of attacks in general.

    It does smell like panic, and will be counter productive. Perhaps in the past it was all more subtle, more omission rather than open attack, and you could say successful because we are still in their Union despite reason to have left long ago.

    However now the style and relentlessness of attacks is developing a pattern which looks more and more like oppression, discrimination, and persecution. And that approach never ends well for the perpetrator!

  79. vlad (not that one) says:

    Missed the boat for previous post, apologies, but here goes anyway:

    There was a bit of a song and dance
    When Blair, as “expert” in EU finance
    Tweeted the “news”
    That people use
    Euro in Denmark or Kroner in France.

  80. Black Joan says:

    Thanks @Thepnr

    That late-night public posting of the procedure is odd.

    Twitter discussion has referred to emphasis in Clause 11 on former ministers.

    New procedure was supposed to help those previously too scared to come forward?

    But posting only on civil service intranet suggests that former employees would not have had access to the procedure at all, unless there was some attempt to publicise it to those who had left the civil service.

    Was such an attempt made?

    I think it has been reported that one of the allegations is from someone no longer employed?

  81. Capella says:

    From Ian Macwhirter’s twitter which Blck Joan linked to. An article in the Sunday Herald quoting Noel Dolan, Nicola’s former adviser – in support of Alex Salmond:

    Speaking to the Sunday Herald, he said: “I have known Alex Salmond for over 35 years and I’ve never seen any inappropriate behaviour, nor have I heard any allegations of sexual harassment prior to Friday morning. I expect Mr Salmond to be cleared of these allegations, and when that happens I hope Leslie Evans, the Permanent Secretary, will consider her position and resign.”

  82. Robert Louis says:

    I agree entirely with the sentiment. Astonished by who has written it. If somebody accused you (male OR female) of sexual assault on January 10th 2013, and that was ALL you were told, how in heaven’s name is that justice. How could you ever defend yourself. This is what happens when people who don’t understand the law, start messing around with the checks and balances that have existed for centuries.

    It’s like ‘hey, here’s an idea, if anybody accuses a person of sexual assault, lets from now on assume it is true, and effectively convict before trial or we even have ANY evidence.

    I have long thought that many, many cases going to court for such historical things put the accused in an impossible situation.

    I just can’t see how that helps anybody.

    btw, the collective so-called ‘journalists’ of the press in Scotland can all shuffle off to hell in a handcart, and I seriously doubt if ANY person in Scotland would give a flying f***. Yet despite the evil they spout, within a few days, we’ll be getting those same so-called ‘journalists’ bleating about how nobody respects them anymore. Boo f***ing hoo. Away tae f*** the lot of you.

  83. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert Louis –

    Hear hear.

    The whole thing is just sickening.

  84. Terence callachan says:

    This whole story is a nonsense
    A Salmond has not been charged
    What we have is information from a case in 2013 somehow getting from the government to the press how is that even possible no wonder A Salmond is angry they couldn’t trial him in court at the time for lack of evidence so they will no have a newspapers kangaroo court put him on trial.
    For the British nationalists it’s worth whatever defamation costs they will eventually have to pay if in exchange Scottish independence loses voters and A Salmond has his media profile erased and subsequently loses his RT show and other political platforms
    As I’ve said before Westminster will do nothing to keep control of Scotland
    Westminster and it’s propoganda allies British newspapers and BBC are behind this political stunt for sure
    You will never get to know who the allegations were made by because that will be kept secret by the government

  85. ronnie anderson says:

    ? Why should a X politician ( private citizen ) be subject to the Code of conduct of Civil servants & being gagged by said code with no rights of defence , its contrary to the natural laws of justice .

  86. vlad (not that one) says:

    Is not there a whiff of Augean stables* in this whole affair?
    *a mountain

  87. vlad (not that one) says:

    ‘s worth of dung.
    NB. no idea what happened with the laptop just now.

  88. Dr Jim says:

    While our backs are turned

    Most of you know of my bugbear about the UK Guv and their food labelling , well it’s official now you can’t buy ANY fresh meat whatsoever in Morrisons supermarket that isn’t UK produce of Great Britain and stamped all over with a Union flag, even meat that is labelled with the Scotch brand INCLUDING Aberdeen Angus steak is now all British flagged

    I didn’t buy any thing of course because I shop in Aldi where they still have Scottish stuff I was only in Morrisons for my fags but I always check

  89. Ghillie says:

    Dear Effie Deans, thank you for your article on this issue.

    With greatest respect, I need to make a wee correction to your piece: Mr Salmond is accused of harassment, not assault.

    I do not know the legal distinction between harassment and assault but am sure it must exist.

    I agree that we have entered a new zone of law lately and, because it is new and now being tested, that as cases progress it will be necessary to amend and improve the procedures.

    Rev Stu, thank you so much for having the decency to give credit, on this occasion, where credit is due =)

    Will the press guilty of wanton defamation be facing court in the fullness of time?

  90. Dan Huil says:

    The britnat media, through its snide reporting, has already condemned Alex Salmond. The public, other than rabid britnats, will take notice of the media’s gleeful gloating. The media in Scotland has reached a new low; it will never recover, because it doesn’t deserve to.

    Thank god for the internet.

  91. PictAtRandom says:

    Decent comment. I’ve often thought that represents the ultimate logic of the Unionist position. It’s a pity that we don’t have any real nationalist voices to counter that. It’s the fools who keep talking about “BritNats”, apologising for Scottish nationalism and promoting EuroUnionism that are the real dagger in the back.

    In the meantime here are a few words from the anarcho-globalist founder of Bella Caledonia:

    “Hate-blogs like Wings Over Scotland and Guido Fawkes feed off the anti-media zeitgeist in a frenzy of partisan zeal. Trump supporters bate the media at live rallies, and Scottish nationalists lobby outside BBC HQ in Glasgow. The politics might be very different but some of the outlook is the same.”

    So, you see, it’s never possible to do enough politically correct, “hermless” kow-towing.

  92. K1 says:

    Mike Small is a small prick on the pinky of the indy movement…arrogance is his middle name. Jealousy is his ego’s game.

  93. Dan Huil says:

    Jings, apologist for Britnat journalism. Who’ve have thunk it.

  94. K1 says:

    I haven’t seen any coverage bar a wee muted piece of Nicola speaking wi some subtitles on twitter…but what I saw in that brief clip…was immense pain.

    They, the media in Scotland are an absolute shower of total hypocritical fucking bastards.

    Not an ounce of ‘journalism’ was involved in any of this. This is a serious breach of procedural code and it stinks all the way back to the UK government’s pawns in Scotland.

    What we are actually witnessing is the spent load of a bunch of toxic wankers getting off on denigrating and destroying Alex Salmond. The newsstands of Scotland are filled with the toxic remnants of a massive circle jerk that’s been going on for 3 days now. The media in Scotland effectively just orgasmed all over Scotland.

    Well…they’ve utterly fucked themselves now. There is absolutely no way back for them as ‘so called journalists’…this isn’t ‘news’, this is persecution.

  95. Cath says:

    Funnily enough, I’m in Liverpool this week, sharing a room with a very old friend from NI – a DUP unionist, staunch anti-SNP and indy; totally Tory. We’ve locked horns a few times over politics so agreed to stop talking about it. It’s working well this year, as we basically both seem to agree politics is fucked, we’re all fucked, and beer and music to forget it all is better. Anyway, the only political conversation we’ve had was her asking, “What the hell is all this crap about Salmond? It’s so obviously politically motivated.” Followed by recounting all our many and various dealings with men, some of which involved us being as bad as they are.

    Up until today, I was trying to keep an open mind because maybe there is something there, and powerful men should be held to account. The media have totally overplayed their hand and in doing so revealed it entirely. It’s a smear to them, pure and simply. And I don’t think, from hereon in, it’ll matter one jot whether there’s any truth to the allegations or not: they’ve decided, so others will decide based on that, for or against. This is genuinely a terrible situation for both men accused of harassment, and women who may need to do so in the future. And all because the media and UK politics can’t deal with an opposition.

  96. Brian Powell says:


    I would ignore comments from former advisors, there seemed to be a lot of linking going on in that article. I go with what the actual people say.

  97. Bill Hume says:

    Am I the only one who believes that by going straight to court about this, Alex Salmond has spiked the guns of those who thought they could stretch this out over the next indy ref/general election?

  98. Scottish Steve says:

    Some of the comments on her blog are ridiculous. People “rejoicing” that the wicked Alex Salmond is finally being taken down and how this will hurt the SNP politically.

    So some unionists are fine with guilty until proven innocent as long as it’s an SNP politician. I’m sure if a beloved unionist politician of theirs was accused, they’d have the same attitude. Not.

    Pure tribal partisanship. And as another comment pointed out, this wont hurt the SNP politically. The Tories have been awash with all kinds of scandals and carry out heinous policies yet they keep winning elections. This whole “it’ll damage the SNP” is just wishful thinking.

    These allegations should never have been made public. Only after a court verdict should they have been. Isn’t justice supposed to be blind? In the unionist instance, it seems the blindfold is painted over with a Union Jack.

  99. galamcennalath says:

    Scottish Steve says:

    some unionists are fine with guilty until proven innocent

    … another proto fascist indicator. There’s an ill wind blowing and decent folks need to sit up and take note of sentiments, opinions, and attitudes which have suddenly become ‘British’ mainstream.

  100. SOG says:

    I’ve seen comments about the words Nicola used. My PoV would be that with the law involved, she has to be absolutely objective.

    And if Alex wants to start a crowdfund, I’ll join.

  101. John McArthur says:

    Its been almost four years since I looked for any length of time on Wings. Then I voted for independence because I had first hand and experience of the neo-liberal paradise on earth. The execesses of the unions in the 1970’s give birth to Thatcherism but oh my goodness the “cure” became worse than ailment.

    I was around to watch the then head of the IMF predict how the poor would be made to pay for sins of the rich post 2008 which at the time seemed incredibly bold for someone in his position to say. He was soon charged with rape and nothing much was heard from him thereafter.

    I had stopped buying the newspapers c. 1996 and was without a TV so it was a bit of a shock to experience how low the media sunk when it came to the independence vote in 2004. One of Guardian bloggers described it along the lines of “How the media had shafted Scotland”.

    In 2015 it all changed. By this time I had learned how Goldman Sachs (a huge player in the cause of the 1929 crash which led to an exodus of money from a recovering Germany and resultant hyperinflation – and the rise of the Nazi’s) through one of their women executives had signed up Greece to a complicated financial miracle which was a, PFI, deal in disguise and how the Greeks were now being shafted by Goldmans Sachs chums in the EU whilst they rejoiced in the wonder of ursury – how Wall St had did a reverse Robin Hood, i.e rob the poor to pay the rich.

    I then watched Merkel make one of the biggest blunders of post WW2 when without consulting with her colleagues in the EU she opened the doors but in doing so made it clear the true Vichey spirit of Brussels.

    Ultra nationalism is clearly an evil but national borders I now see can be a firewall against an all powerful corrupting elite which to me is now clearly visible in the EU.

    I will not vote for independence based on EU membership.

    Beware any crocodile tears for AS. This seems like a King Lear era. Lear represents the West who has given his crown to Regan and Goneral who are without mercy whilst Cordelia has been banished.

  102. Thepnr says:

    @Bill Hume

    “Am I the only one who believes that by going straight to court about this, Alex Salmond has spiked the guns of those who thought they could stretch this out over the next indy ref/general election?”

    No, as I agree with you, however they will still do their best.

  103. mr thms says:

    #Dr Jim @ 4:39pm

    Today I began looking online for Scottish meat products because the major supermarkets, near me, appear to be as one with regard to labelling their meat products with a Union Flag.

    I noticed many Scottish producers are selling online and although I have not ordered anything yet, it is good to know the supermarkets can be circumvented..

  104. ALANM says:

    Unfortunately the SNP now finds itself completely boxed in by its own past decisions. In order to be consistent, Alex Salmond now faces the prospect of being suspended from the party until such time as he’s declared innocent and that announcement if and when it comes will only serve to feed the media frenzy.

    We need a leader not a lawyer in charge of the party.

  105. HandandShrimp says:

    A thoughtful article that looks at the implications of the bigger picture in this slide towards the “A witch!” accusation that is sweeping the modern world (the unmodern world never lost the witchcraft accusation). No evidence required or right of response seems alien to the concept of innocent until proven guilty. This is contrary to all that we call justice

    This is a difficult issue as clearly the Me Too campaign has brought down some disreputable people. However, there must be some sort of balance which protects the accused as well as encourage the genuinely wronged to speak out.

    I thought the reply from someone called Aldo was telling. The opposite of seeing the bigger picture, it is a a true Monty Python “burn him anyway” unbridled enthusiasm to do Salmond and, by association, the Yes movement down. No interest in the rights and wrongs just straight forward political capital making. I suspect that is the motivation for Labour and the bilge in the press too. By their own judgements they will be judged.

    Time will see an outcome but Salmond no longer holds any office and Nicola has not shown fear nor favour in relation to examining any accusations. I suspect that the damage to the Yes movement will be minimal but it is potentially a sour footnote to a remarkable political career of one man. On the other hand there are so many of these accusations that unless the ones relating to Alex are particularly egregious and are, most importantly, proven, I am not sure they are going to have any long term political significance. There will be other accusations in the corridors of power and fame to take the headlines soon enough.

  106. Thepnr says:

    Totally O/T as it’s another Brexit article but it’s a whole more than that and well worth a read.

    Full link given else unreadable.

  107. Alison Rollo says:

    Well done Effie!! Have had a run in with this lady many times and I considered her to be a blinkered rampant unionist but this was a well written and fair comment!! Well done Effie!!

  108. Hamish100 says:

    John McArthur

    All those words about you and we don’t care.

  109. vlad (not that one) says:

    @John McArthur 17:57
    … I then watched Merkel make one of the biggest blunders of post WW2 when witho out consulting with her colleagues in the EU she opened the doors but in doing so made it clear the true Vichey spirit of Brussels.

    Ultra nationalism is clearly an evil but national borders I now see can be a firewall against an all powerful corrupting elite which to me is now clearly visible in the EU.

    I will not vote for independence based on EU membership. …

  110. Bobp says:

    John Mcarthur 5.57pm ‘I will not vote for independence based on EU membership”. The EU is a means to an end. I suppose you’d rather westminster dictatorship/post brexit fascism instead.

  111. Dan Huil says:

    The britnat media actually believes this will harm the independence cause – the britnat media really is that out of touch.

  112. hackalumpoff says:

    OOPS I Misspoke says BBC newsreader/barsteward

  113. NodToBob says:

    Totally agree with you ALANM about needing a leader and not a lawyer. I don’t care about the SNP but I’m indy to my core and I’m fed up with the cause being constantly hammered by SNPBad crap like this. We’ve been on the back-foot for four years and it’s got to stop.

    I think the thing that snapped for me was not the AS allegations (that’ll sort itself out in time, due process and all that jazz) but the Yemen missile story that the Sunday Ranger broke last week. What with all the corrupt links between the British establishment and the Saudis (eg, covert military support, BAE corruption, huge military sales, etc) it’s us that manage to get the pelters. How f*****g inept is that!

    It takes some doing for Scottish independence to be even indirectly implicated in a massacre of kids in a hidden part of the middle east but the SNP’s much vaunted press operation managed to do it. The drift has to stop.

  114. ScottieDog says:

    @John McArthur
    “Ultra nationalism is clearly an evil but national borders I now see can be a firewall against an all powerful corrupting elite which to me is now clearly visible in the EU.

    I will not vote for independence based on EU membership.”

    And so you will remain in a society where ultra nationalist neoliberal tax avoiders have FULL sovereignty over your affairs.
    Aye that’ll work.

  115. vlad (not that one) says:

    @John McArthur 17:57
    I then watched Merkel make one of the biggest blunders of post WW2 when without consulting with her colleagues in the EU she opened the doors but in doing so made it clear the true Vichey spirit of Brussels.
    Ultra nationalism is clearly an evil but national borders I now see can be a firewall against an all powerful corrupting elite which to me is now clearly visible in the EU.
    I will not vote for independence based on EU membership.

    What to say?
    – Who opened the floodgates in North Africa and the Near East? Merkel? And think who created the flood in the first place? What in the Niflheim was Merkel supposed to do?
    – National borders as firewall against an all powerful corrupting elite? In the EU? How about the home-grown one?
    And is it not oh so convenient that Cayman Islands et al are there, inside the firewall, but just outside the national borders.

  116. galamcennalath says:

    Thepnr says:

    Totally O/T as it’s another Brexit article but it’s a whole more than that and well worth a read.

    Thanks, it was well worth a read.

    It is a source of continued disbelief that anyone involved in agriculture could have supported Brexit. It goes further, people in rural communities benefit from thriving farms around them. Shops, garages, schools, health centres all remain viable only because the area is economically productive through farming.

    And in Scotland in particular we are usually dealing with smaller family farms often hill and marginal. I know crofters who receive about £20k annually in CAP payments. This is where the majority of their income comes from, not the relatively small number of cattle and sheep they farm. These are not well off people.

    If subsidies disappear and supermarkets are filled with cheap (currently classed unfit for human consumption) US beef, crofting and hill farming in Scotland will die. The countryside will change for the worse, forever.

  117. Capella says:

    Brian Powell says:
    26 August, 2018 at 5:33 pm


    I would ignore comments from former advisors, there seemed to be a lot of linking going on in that article. I go with what the actual people say.

    Brian – did you read the article? Noel Dolin is very supportiv of Alec Samond. The piece I quoted gves a flavour:

    Speaking to the Sunday Herald, he said: “I have known Alex Salmond for over 35 years and I’ve never seen any inappropriate behaviour, nor have I heard any allegations of sexual harassment prior to Friday morning. I expect Mr Salmond to be cleared of these allegations, and when that happens I hope Leslie Evans, the Permanent Secretary, will consider her position and resign.”

  118. ronnie anderson says: See rule 11 Alex Salmond wasn’t afforded the right of making contact with any Civil Servant .

  119. mike cassidy says:

    Next thing they’ll be saying he was in the IRA and supported the killing of British soldiers …eh

  120. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    NodToBob at 7.40

    Rarely read a less sensible post. Can you explain how the “the SNP’s much vaunted press operation” managed to implicate the SNP in bombing Yemen’s children when the SNP and any press operation it has had absolutely nothing to do with it

  121. Robert Peffers says:

    @PictAtRandom says: 26 August, 2018 at 4:46 pm:

    ” … Decent comment. I’ve often thought that represents the ultimate logic of the Unionist position. It’s a pity that we don’t have any real nationalist voices to counter that.”

    There is at least one covert idiot unionist in every Wings topic. There often is at least one not so covert unionist comments – today you are that idiot.

  122. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I repeat – the admittedly limited contact I have had today with other people tell me this is doing more damage to the unionist plotters than it is to the SNP.

    I think the less comment we make about the substance of the complaint against AS we make the better. Most of this is conjecture The real story here is the illicit leaking of this matter and we should concentrate on that and the very obvious injustice resulting from it.

  123. Capella says:

    @ ronnie @ Smallaxe – thx for the link. Interesting to note that section 11 doesn’t appear to have been followed when dealing with the former minister AS.

    Guidance says nothing about making the allegations public. Nicola’s first statement said that Leslie Evans told her that she (Leslie) was going to publicise the allegations.

    Section 14 also doesn’t seem to have been followed.

    14. The final report will be provided to the staff member and the former Minister.

    Note too that although the camplainant is free to go to the police throughout this time, this clearly didn’t happen until very recently.

  124. Corrado Mella says:

    Alex Salmond is a private citizen with no public office.

    He is an SNP member, like 200,000 others.

    Like many SNP members, he is an Office Bearer in the SNP, exactly as a Branch Convener or a Political Educator.

    Whatever happens to him, it is not relevant to the SNP as a party of government or to the Scottish Independence cause.

    The game is that justice cannot be served, now that any investigation has been compromised by leaking details to the press, thus leaving the smear floating around like the smell of a fart in a lift. We know woddunit.

    Focus, people. The prize is so damn close!

  125. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bobp says: 26 August, 2018 at 7:27 pm:

    ” … John Mcarthur 5.57pm ‘I will not vote for independence based on EU membership”. The EU is a means to an end. I suppose you’d rather westminster dictatorship/post brexit fascism instead.”

    The guy is an idiot ignore him – don’t even go there.

  126. Arthur thomson says:

    It is standard procedure in professional organisations to suspend any person against whom accusations are made. This is done to safeguard the interests of all concerned. Anyone who assumes that it is actually an indictment of the accused is either pre-disposed to believe and/or amplify the accusations or ignorant. The British political parties don’t follow this code of practice and are consequently, notoriously corrupt. The Scottish electorate are sufficiently educated to understand this,to understand that the media smear campaign is exactly that and ultimately to value the principled stance of the SNP.

    We must continue to fight from the moral high ground and ignore the dirty tricks squad who want us to lower ourselves to their appalling standards.

  127. ronnie anderson says:

    Smallaxe Aye ah made a fist o it again lol , thanks for the correction as its important information to let people get a understanding of this so called Civil service code thats not so civil .

  128. Legerwood says:

    ALANM says:
    26 August, 2018 at 6:23 pm
    “”Unfortunately the SNP now finds itself completely boxed in by its own past decisions. In order to be consistent, Alex Salmond now faces the prospect of being suspended from the party …””

    The previous decisions with regards to suspension from the party involved serving ministers, MSPs or MPs.

    Therefore to suspend Mr Salmond, who is an ordinary member no matter how distinguished his previous, and one hopes his future career is likely to be, would be inconsistent with the precedents set by those previous decisions.

    Furthermore it would potentially leave ordinary members exposed to similar treatment albeit at a local level.

    Overlying all of that however is the principle – innocent until proven guilty.

  129. Thepnr says:


    Nice to see you back 🙂 plenty going on.

  130. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Probably fair to say that 99.9% of us are properly scunnered with what’s happening.

    Can we come up with *any* suggestions as to how to fight back?

    Not being sarcastic here – what can be done?

    My own suggestion isn’t genius material but straightforward enough that non-political-anoraks can ‘get it’ – we make the AUOB Edinburgh march the biggest yet. It’s only 6 weeks away and most of us can’t afford to stay there overnight so it requires forward planning, car-sharing, bus-bookings etc etc.

    It’s something practical that we can all contribute to by helping with publicity and general hype, even if we can’t be there on the day. Let’s get on it and give shameless bastards like Massie something real to write about.

    (Can I also suggest that we make an effort to ensure that Wingers attending the march get together at some point for a wee photo-op? Some prefer not to, and that’s understood, but a lot of us were in Dundee last week and we overlapped, missed each other etc – it would be great, just for once, to have a team photie at the stall.)

    PS Hoots tae Smallaxe, good to see you keekin in there! 🙂

  131. ScottieDog says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill
    “I think the less comment we make about the substance of the complaint against AS we make the better. Most of this is conjecture The real story here is the illicit leaking of this matter and we should concentrate on that and the very obvious injustice resulting from it.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

  132. Macart says:


    O/T. A Q.E.D. moment.

    This is the sort of … person… that is driving Brexit, and this is how he regards the concerns of the general population.

    Given the nature of the Brexit we’re seeing unfold on a daily basis and knowing also the nature of the people who are the driving force behind it? Does anyone, ANYONE, really believe that being a part of their United (laughs) Kingdom is a good thing? Does anyone really believe that they’ve driven the populations of these islands to this place for the good of those populations?

    Farage, Johnson, Mogg, Fox, Gove and yes even a hopelessly divided Labour has its pro leave dream team. That’s your Brexit UK political spectrum in waiting that is.

    To be absolutely crystal clear?

    Brexit UK is for the few not the many. It’s about greed you know. It’s ALWAYS about greed. It’s about monopolizing politics and the corporate world. The flow of wealth and the control of resources. It’s about the few using that monopoly to dismantle your hard won civic and human rights. Just so you know.

    Their tools of choice (and there are a few tools out there), are well known by this point. False patriotism (the last refuge of the scoundrel), fear, intimidation and instilling hatred of the other. The other being who they and their media decide it is. Frankly? They really couldn’t give a shit about patriotism of any kind, but given they do so love to instill fear and division within their opposition, having some folk at street level and who’ve bought into their definition of ‘unity’ and ‘Britishnezz’ is a big help. That some, if not most, of those folk are going to suffer along with the rest of the people on these islands is deeply regrettable to them I’m sure. However, you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs etc. Survival of the fittest and all that. Also? Peoples’ lives are cheap… apparently.

    Mibbies just me, but mainly I don’t feel like giving up my rights today. And mibbies I’d like to have say in how I define myself and the nature of the country I want to live in.

    Worth a thought.

  133. Macart says:


    Good to see you ma friend. 🙂

  134. NodToBob says:

    Sorry Dave but isn’t the press office supposed to head off these sorts of stushies? All I can say is that the SNP’s rebuttal operation has been spectacularly unsuccessful these past four years. It’s been a continuous stream of SNPBad stories and the party has, as I say, been constantly on the back foot.

    Okay, a lot of the shit probably washes away pretty quickly but there’s a drip, drip effect that does erode public confidence over time, maybe not in huge numbers but it all mounts up. The establishment are pulling off the same trick down in England with Corbyn. Labour should be out of sight of this atrocious Tory government but the best they’re doing is level pegging.

    It’s working down there, and it’s probably working with us. We got 45% in September 2014 but the SNP are way down on that in the polls. I expect the AS thing will also have a negative affect.

    I suppose it’s a resilience thing and time will tell what the long term consequences are, if any. I hope it blows over but for me the lesson is that we shouldn’t put all our eggs in one basket. Relying on politicians alone is a risky strategy. We need to spread the load and require new structures to hold the line when one bit is attacked. I noted Robin McAlpine dropping hints about the SIC coming up with some initiative and that would be a positive development.

    We need to be moving forward again, but politicians mired in the day job, I’m afraid to say, are not going to do that.

  135. Elmac says:

    This stushie has all the hallmarks of a unionist inspired plot involving a corrupt media. It could be that AS has a case to answer although I strongly doubt it and am confident that this will be proved in the end. The media and their puppetmasters will drag this out as long as possible to maximise the damage they perceive will be caused to the quest for independence.

    Allegations of sexual misconduct are now commonplace, encouraged no doubt by the cloak of anonymity extended to complainants. I can understand the reasons for this. However that right of anonymity must surely extend to the accused until such time as charges are laid at the very least. In the case of AS not only is he not entitled to know who has raised the complaints against him but also the precise nature of the complaints and what has been offered in evidence. This is a nonsense and patently unfair. In the meantime he has been subjected to a gleeful media frenzy. Even if he is exonerated, or the accusations unproven, their stink will stay with him for life whereas the perpetrators will presumably simply merge back into the shadows their job done.

    Provided no successful criminal prosecution is raised, nor any civil action taken against him, then AS should be entiltled to pursue a civil action for damages against his accusers, assuming their identity is revealed. Problem is there were apparently no witnesses or other evidence so there will probably be no proof either way and in the meantime the damage has been done and the mud will stick.

    I firmly believe that where accusations of this sort have become public knowledge then the names of the accusers and the nature of the complaints should also be made public. Complainants must know that unfounded accusations carry a personal risk for them both in financial and reputational terms. Otherwise the law as it stands is a backstabbers charter. I made this point the other night and was accosted on here by some bampot who presumably thought I was casting aspersions on the FM who had backed anonymity in her statement on the affair. We all have our opinions.

    One opinion I have which no doubt will be widely shared is that if AS is exonerated, and/or no charges brought, he should sue the relevant media outlets for defamation. I would be delighted to contribute to a fighting fund and also to provide funds if an action against his accusers is merited.

  136. ronnie anderson says:

    Cappella Like I made a fist of the link in the 1st place Lesley Evans certainly made a fist of the application of said code combined with a leak to the press , a abject lesson in how not to attempt to smear .

    Calls being made for Alex Salmond to be suspended from the party are fancy full , more in hope than possible , as for Alex standing in any forthcoming elections again pure speculation there has been no indication from Alex he would re enter politics but these allegations wouldn’t prevent him wither under the Snp banner or as a Independent .

    Oh how the Fear the Man .

  137. Fred says:

    A scunner right enough but Alex is still up there, a giant amongst pygmies & we all owe him. Courage brothers do not stumble!

    Smallaxe, good to see U back kid!

  138. Smallaxe says:

    Hi folks,

    Let’s all get on with gaining our independence, AS is a big boy and can look after himself with W/Minster defamation 101.

    We need to keep our focus on independence and until that is achieved we are only pissing into the wind regarding other distractions. I hope to join all of you in Edinburgh in October, until then, please keep the threads peaceful and in harmony with our ultimate goal in mind at all times.

    Namaste, my friends.

  139. Bob Mack says:

    As has been made very clear, Scotland within the EU has absolutely no input,because Westminster decides for us. We can lobby sure, but Westminster has the real power and real vote.

    Would it not be better if Scotland had its own voice in the EU and exerted it’s own influence on its own behalf.

    The alternative therefore is to be ruled by England in perpetuity.

    How can you say Brexit is going to be an absolute economic disaster for the UK, and then inflict the same economic fate on Scotland by failing to join the EU? It would make no sense.

  140. Thepnr says:

    @Arthur thomson

    I wouldn’t disagree in the case of a workplace where it might be undesirable for the accused and the accuser to have to work together on a daily basis.

    I doubt that this would occur in all cases though it might be simpler for someone to move to a different department or another store/office within or whatever until the outcome of any case has been investigated and resolved.

    Then if necessary the companies disciplinary procedure would kick in.

    All of that assumes both sides of the dispute have to work in the same environment and is nothing like the Alex Salmond situation where he will longer have contact with the civil service on a daily basis.

    What would be the grounds for suspension from any organisation because of an allegation against you?

    I’m not just talking of a political party but any organisation at all in which you might be a member, say the local golf or rotary club.

    Now I can see these organisations taking action such as suspension or throwing someone out altogether if deemed to have brought disrepute against that organisation.

    Before that can happen though they must be shown to have broken “the rules” of the organisation and for that to happen the evidence must be heard and a judgement made.

    We are for from that being the situation with Alex Salmond.

  141. Eppy says:

    I’m with Ian brotherhood on this one. (Decent post from Effie by the way, and all credit where it is due, whatever the source.)

    I wonder whether the folk who are angered by the sheer pile on by the BBC and MSM could be persuaded to join the SNP (if they haven’t already done so). A boost to membership numbers could do nicely at this time.

    By the way, it is now so much easier to switch off the BBC R4 to-day program when I wake up to the not so dulcet tones of Sarah Smith. Thanks BBC.

  142. ScottieDog says:

    Just thinking if this case has been handled improperly taking into account the fact that it was leaked, does that not harm the case for the alleged victim?

  143. NodToBob says:

    Sorry to be posting again, Dave, but to answer your particular point, wouldn’t it have been better to put out a press statement, or maybe even just hide until it blows over, rather than to put a spokesman onto Radio Scotland to be shouted at on air by the presenter?

    Right enough the presenter got some pelters for her behaviour but was that noted by the average casual, apolitical listener? I suspect not; all they probably heard was the SNP being blamed for something again. Drip, drip a wee bit more.

    I just don’t think the SNP’s media approach has been very savvy. They seem to have adopted the Tony Blair “masochist strategy” and think they have to answer every point put to them. They are trying to communicate with the people but that’s not what our media are about. They need to see them, as a lot of us do, as part of the problem and start meeting hardball with hardball.

  144. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    NodToBob at 9.32

    Sorry, but you haven’t explained how your offensive suggestion that SNP press team were in some way implicated in the attempt to smear the SNP with Yemen bombings.

    Your post was utter nonsense and subsequent longer posts don’t obscure that fact.

    Everybody on here knows the SNP continually rebuts such nonsense but the press doesn’t print the rebuttals. If you don’t know that you’ve been asleep for a few years.

    The rebuttal unit is of course only a few weeks old but its got some job on its hands.

  145. Glamaig says:

    O/T, and for some perspective, I found this from Miroslav Hroch (a Czech historian).

    There are three fundamental phases of national movements.

    1. the phase of scholarly interest: marked by a passionate concern by a couple of individuals, usually intellectuals, for a study of the language, the culture, and the history of the oppressed nationality.

    2. the period of patriotic agitation: an agitation remaining largely at an individual level and without any large-scale organisational framework

    3. the rise of a mass national movement: national consciousness has become the concern of the broad masses, (even if by no means the whole of the nation’s members)and the national movement has a firm organisational structure extending over the whole territory.

    You can see how far into Phase 3 we are. No wonder the UK Establishment are shitting themselves.

  146. Ken500 says:

    The SNP still keep on winning.

    People are not as ignorant as the ‘Press’. Tanking in every way. How low can they go.

    Thank goodness for the Internet.

    Expel Alex Salmond all the members will leave. Especially over this crap.

  147. Capella says:

    @ ronnie – no problem. Smallaxe was on the case so that lazy people like me didn’t have to.

    These cases often collapse because the authority fails to implement the procedure. Leaking the “confidential” report to the DR is probably the main purpose of all this. Maximum smear fest. Added benefit is that the YES movement can be split into “Salmond” and “Sturgeon” factions. Divide and rule.

    IMO it has Westminster fingerprints all over it. I’m glad Alec has come out fighting. The stress must be enormous but he is up for a battle and I really think it will backfire on the British Establishment.

    We have to stay focused and refuse to be manipulated.

  148. ben madigan says:

    o/T people
    Given the pope’s visit to part of ireland and the contemporary news that nuns had been arrested in Scotland for cruelty to children in their care,i thought scots might be interested in viewing this film.
    It’s hard watching of the way we were in ireland.
    I can’t honestly say how much Scotland can identify with the ethos of the time –
    Rather a lot I would think as the suffocating atmosphere, naievity of the people and their exploitation came from both sides of the protestant/catholic divide.

  149. Arthur thomson says:

    Thepnr @ 9.42

    Your point is well made and accepted.

  150. Marie Clark says:

    Nice tae see ye Smallaxe. I agree Alex is a big boy and can well look after himself. I think that there are some folks who will over time be made to feel very sorry that they ever started this
    particular hare running. Watch out Daily Record, your leaks and inuendos could come back and haunt you.

    Onwards and upwards folks, eyes on the prize. It must be getting closer cause by jings the Britnats sure are running scared.

  151. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thepnr says: 26 August, 2018 at 12:55 pm:

    ” … The person who believes that they have been assaulted could report the matter to the police at any time of course.”

    That bit is true, Thepnr.

    ” … The police will then complete an investigation of their own and either drop it altogether through lack of evidence or hand it over to the Procurator’s office who will decide whether or not to pursue a prosecution for the alleged offence.”

    The police do not have the power to decide to drop or continue an investigation. The most they can do is report to the Procurators Fiscal that they have been unable to find any evidence. If there is any evidence whatsoever it is the Procurators Fiscal who decide if and when the matter is dropped.

    In point of fact certain cases that cannot result in a prosecution are never closed and some get to court and result in a Not Proven Verdict and thus remain open.

  152. McDuff says:

    I agree something is going on.
    We had the mysterious bomb threat in `14 at the Better Together office in Cumbernauld by a person claiming to be from the SNLA which came to nothing disappearing into the night but not before the MSM made a meal of it.
    Then the Met came knocking on the Rev`s door with a load of dross and again the MSM did their bit for the cause.
    The SNP need to get some professional help in dealing with kind of thing because it is only going to get worse.

  153. Thepnr says:

    @Arthur thomson

    Thanks, it’s not often you’ll get a compliment on here when disagreeing with someone. For me at least it’s a first 🙂

  154. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @ 11:50,

    I also have the feeling that this could well backfire spectacularly, especially if anyone continues to try to make capital out of this for their own narrow (political or financial) ends.

    Regardless, I anticipate fallout in all kinds of unexpected directions.

    I initially wrote much more here, but perhaps the least said the better. Suffice to add that, whatever the rights and wrongs, I reckon the public are not going to tolerate this being turned without hard evidence into another long-drawn-out Michelle Thomson-style media/political character-assassination attempt on Alex.

  155. Danny says:

    One thing Donald Trump does when he is accused of sexual harassment is he comes out fighting and turns the whole story on it’s head and accuses the accusers of spreading lies and mis- information.

    Fight fire with fire Alex, otherwise the BritNat media will not let this rest.

  156. NodToBob says:

    The SNP were implicated in the Yemen tragedy, Dave, and you’re right that it wasn’t the SNP doing the implicating. I could have chosen my words more carefully, right enough, but I think your using that to avoid my central point: it’s still the SNP’s job to make sure none of this crap sticks and adversely affects the independence movement.

    In my opinion they’ve have been staggeringly inept at doing this these last four years. In fact lets be perfectly frank, they’ve been absolutely f*****g usless. (Why else would they have belatedly formed a rebuttal unit?) And don’t blame the unionist media: they see it as being their job to be down on the SNP.

    I am not an SNP member but I am convinced about independence and I speak to enough non-political people (outside the echo chambers of social media in other words) to fear that the dream might be fading. I know a number of soft Yessers in particular who think we blew it in 2014 and we won’t get a second chance.

    I don’t want to believe that but it concerns me deeply when I see the supposed independence party having not progressed the case for independence one jot since 2014, showing the grassroots zero leadership and having an accident prone Blairite centrist elite that’s obsessed with bland insipid managerialism. And now we have this AS shit.

    I believe you’re an SNP salwart, Dave (apologies if you’re not because it kind of f***s up my final sentence). You’re people need to get their act together, and pretty quickly.

  157. Rock says:

    They are out to get Alex Salmond and the Rev. Stuart Campbell by any means possible.

    They are not too worried about Establishment lawyer Nicola who stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

    Nicola is not going to call an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.

  158. Capella says:

    @ NodtoBob – if you’re not happy with the SNPs policies I suggest you find a political party whose policies you can live with.

  159. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 11.23

    You already made that comment (about a million times).It gets boring.

  160. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Please watch the following. It’s only 13 seconds long.

    Then watch it again, and again, and again, until you know it off-by-heart.

    Then watch it with the sound off.

    Does that guy look like he’s made a ‘mistake’?

    Does he look like he’s ‘correcting’ himself?

    Or does he look like he’s reading a script and actually braces himself to deliver what he *knows* is deception at 9secs?


    (Not sure whether or not to strip away the http bit before this, but here goes, it should be findable anyway…)

  161. Liz g says:

    Danny @ 10.59
    Twitter…. That’s the answer….Twitter..
    Mibbi fur a manchild like Trump,but fur God’s sake Danny a bit of dignity here!!
    Ye dae realise that everybody laughs at that clown Trump for using Twitter and a fair few Americans find it humiliating that their President does this?

  162. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Why am I watching English football on BBC Scotland with Scottish football relegated to a late night follow up?This happens every week. Is anybody going to do something about it?

  163. Rock says:

    Black Joan says:
    26 August, 2018 at 2:27 pm

    “The second paragraph of Nicola Sturgeon’s statement says, “These complaints have been considered since then under a procedure covering ministers and former ministers that was agreed by me in December 2017 in the wake of public concern about harassment.”

    Alex Salmond is seeking judicial review re procedure.

    The allegations about events said to have taken place in December 2013 were made in January 2018, the month following the First Minister’s agreement to the new procedure.

    Who drafted the new procedure? How was it publicised?”

    Is Nicola trying to find an excuse for not calling an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed?

    Rock (2nd August – A significant debate):

    “Be warned that Pravda GB will seek revenge – through the Black Arts department of the British Establishment.

    Alex Salmond knows to strike when the iron is hot.

    Unlike cautious Establishment lawyer Nicola who spectacularly squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

    And then stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

    The Novichok false flag operation was to compromise Nicola and it succeeded.

    If Alex Salmond had been SNP leader at the time of the Brexit referendum, Scotland would be on course to becoming independent in March next year.”

  164. Petra says:

    We’ve had journalists whining recently about the drop in newspaper sales and in doing so trying to project the blame onto everyone else and their granny. Mostly Independence supporting grannies, that is. And as they are doing so they’re currently publishing / broadcasting so-called news about Alex Salmond, dregs from the bottom of the journalistic barrel. It says something, indeed, that Effie Deans has actually given the wholly corrupt, indecent and immoral MSM outlets a real showing up and they should reflect on that. Oh, and well done to her. Credit where credit’s due.

    BBC Scotland ran with the same old story again tonight. Surprise, surprise. Top of the bill. Rhonda Grant Labour MSP had her say, basically demanding that Nicola Sturgeon throw Alex out of the party to ensure that Holyrood is a “safe place” for victims and witnesses and then seemed to pull herself up realising belatedly that she’d made a fool of herself. The BBC newsreader then held a Daily Record front page (confidentiality leak) up followed by “the Scottish Government states that there has been no breach of confidentiality” making them (SNP of course) out as liars too. Isn’t it time, if they’re so obsessively interested in this story (aye right) that they interviewed people like Mr Clegg and Leslie Grant? Or at least say they’ve been approached but refuse to comment. Isn’t it surprising too that there hasn’t been a peep from Dark Money Davidson. Lying low. I wonder why?

  165. Cactus says:

    Haha, here we go, more frae Mark…

    Glasgow music:

    If ye’ve never heard this one before, ye’ll love it Rev Stu. 🙂

  166. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Yeah watched it, shifty or what?

    By the way on your earlier post about the AOUB Edinburgh March I totally agree. Let’s all turn up and make sure The Salmond Show or not being run right now by the media doeasn’t mean we are all going back in the box.

    Independence is for keeps and we’re all still up for it!

  167. Liz g says:

    Petra @ 11.38
    Oh,dark money Davidson will be writing her scrip for when Holyrood is sitting again..
    This is the subject she will hide behind every time Dark Money is mentioned..

  168. Smallaxe says:

    Ian B., Your link!

    No mistake, Ian. IMO, Deliberate!

  169. Capella says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood – he made a very rapid and barely audible correction. Can’t tell if he read it wrong or read it right. Noticed the wacky photo of Alex in the background. You’d expect a news reader to be able to read news though. Though by now it’s not really news.

  170. Achnababan says:

    Who are the ‘Scottish’ Civil Service loyal to? The British or Scottish government?

    Don’t many of the senior staff like Evans have to swear an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty and sign the official secrets act?

    Being British careerists one thing is for sure – they have no loyalty to the Scottish people.

  171. boris says:

    The gathering of personal information, entering it on a database, then manipulating the voting intentions of the electorate who wished only to be allowed an honest vote is a despicable abuse. and the knowledge that the Tory party was party to the criminal? activities confirms that they are not fit to be the government of the UK

  172. Hamish100 says:


    All he does is cut and paste his 1000 yr none-sense then repeats his St Theresa and ridicules Nicola Sturgeon. No interest in debate. Boring and trolling. I suppose for a tory paper supporter that’s as good as it gets.

  173. Petra says:

    Help me Rhonda, right enough, lol. Last post should have read Rhoda Grant and Leslie Evans.

    @ Liz g ….. “This is the story she will hide behind every time dark money is mentioned. ….. ”

    Oh she’ll use it right enough but don’t forget Liz that Aamer Anwar said he’d received “a catalogue of complaints from individuals in relation to members of ALL political parties.” That includes hers of course. There must be a number of people suffering from chronic diahorrea right now wondering when their time is up. The down side of course is that if they ever get outed the BBC etc will play it down just as they did with Fallon and Green. Here today, gone tomorrow and no more said about it.

  174. Dr Jim says:

    No person from another country ever in the history of my life has lorded it over me in any way whatsoever, in fact when I make sure to point out to them I’m Scottish their attitude has always been increased warmth and interest

    Every day I’m told by people who live in England or who are employed by the English government or who work in the *News* that they own my puny rotten little shithole of a debt ridden country and that I’m lucky to have them as my generous overlords so shut up

    Anybody who says they prefer that second option which we all know is accurate doesn’t now or ever want Independence on any terms, they want British Nationalism applied to Scotland and if anybody can’t see people like Jacob Rees Mogg in his grandads suit and his pre WW11 spectacles and his soft spoken voice is only missing the red armband from his sleeve there’s something seriously wrong with them or they’re just Nazis the same as half the Conservative and Unionist Labour party

    I’ll take my chances with the French and the Germans and the Italians and the Spaniards and every other country in the EU who’s trying to bring about a unity of common good around the world instead of Englands marching off in a huff because they can’t get to rule manipulate or steal an empire by conning the British public into believing all foreigners are bad just like they’ve always done

    Scottish Independence is about moving forward not moving back, equality is about meeting your neighbour eye to eye, not looking up to ask permission like some Dickens character

    No foreigner has ever denigrated my country to me but English British Nationalism does it every day

    Every day for 3011 years Every day for 3011 years Every day for 3011 years Every day for 3011 years Every day for 3011 years…..Had enough of it yet?

  175. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ian Brotherhood at 9:18 pm.

    You typed,
    “– it would be great, just for once, to have a team photie at the stall.”

    Here’s one from, I believe, September 2016, in George Square.

  176. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT –



    Had forgotten all about that one.

    Cheers aplenty!

  177. Thepnr says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    What a motley crew! LOL

  178. K1 says:

    This from Perth and Kinross council meeting in January, just got it off AUOB twitter feed. This is the shite we are up against up and down our country. And I agree, everything should be recorded at these meetings. Disgraceful.

    ‘Pretty shocking comments made by Lib Dem Councillor Willie Wilson and Conservative Councillor Roz McCall about the SNP group, during Perth & Kinross Council’s Lifelong Learning Committee debate on the closure of Balhousie Primary School in January.’

  179. K1 says:

    Oops…’All Of Us First’ twitter feed not AUOB. Apologies.

  180. Ken500 says:

    Alex should sue the lot of them. Watch them back down. No one believes it anyway. Alex Salmond should be back where he belongs, elected and representing the people. The Tories will be gone.They will get their comeuppance soon. Fraudsters and liars.

    The only reason they back off Wings is they know they will get sued.

    The question is why an unelected civil servant is running the show. Getting paid more than the FM. Undemocratic. Civil servant are supposed to be the servant of the people not usurping and undermining the Gov. Being paid by Scottish taxpayers. The hierarchy should get a grip. Support people who have spent their whole lives standing up for Scotland. Not be manipulated by the media.

    The ‘Press’ will continue to destroy their own industry. How can they be so out of touch with public opinion. They must live in a total vacumn. Like white noise in the background.

    The Independence campaign has started. Keith Brown assemblies are going on.

  181. Petra says:

    Just done my usual AM check on here, lol, and see that Dr Jim (12:22pm) and K1’s (2:53am) posts link up, fit, pretty well, don’t they.

    Dr Jim: “Every day for 311 years ……. had enough of it yet?”

    K1: “Slapping them (SNP) down and put them back in the box …”

    Pretty ironic or rather appropriate don’t you think that in light of what Dr Jim says these Tory and Libdem Councillors (where was Labour?) are members of the Lifelong Learning Committee.

    So in answer to your question Dr Jim, yeah we’ve had enough of it, especially when the suppression is coming from people who are considered to be our ain folk. The “house” boys and girls extremely happy, it would seem, to do their London slave masters bidding: Dirty work for them.

  182. Robert Peffers says:

    McDuff says: 26 August, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    ” … The SNP need to get some professional help in dealing with kind of thing because it is only going to get worse.”

    And there it is – the SNP, a party with more trained lawyers than any other, that also has the resources of the Scottish Government civil service and legal teams, are BAAAD! and need to get professional help.

    The SG are professionals, every last one of them is a professional politician yet there is always a batch of those who claim to support independence queued up with pointing fingers going SNP BAAAD! In unison.

    The SNP/SG quite simply cannot tell the papers what they must print and they cannot dictate to the broadcasters on any medium what they must say and/or do.

    They can only send them their press releases and/or publish the information in the public domain. They can neither make people read or view it nor can they make the corrupt media sources carry the truth. Sadly neither can they force the public to look for information from the SG as provided by the SG.

    The SNP not only sends out reams of press releases but have on-line sources of information:-

    Every debate in the chamber is on Holyrood TV:-

    As are all committees at Holyrood although some must be held behind closed doors for reasons of, for example, business confidentiality.

    The information is there, right from the horse’s mouth, but does Joe & Josephine public read it? Nah!

    They’d rather hear what Brian Taylor decides they should hear and what Brian Taylor understand about it on the Television and if the TV company bothers to bring on, “An Expert pundit”, from every other organisation on the planet except from the SG or SNP then that isn’t putting the SG/SNP views to the public it is giving the pundits personal views, even when that pundit is a pet food expert with no known credentials as an economist to his name. The hostile media will push that and not even bother to invite an official spokesperson to comment.

    Matter of fact the media very often will begin a news item with phrases such as, “A BBC investigation reveals … “, or, “A source close to the Scottish Government says … “, or, “Economic experts say …”, then trot out a pet food salesman they claim as an expert witness.

    Everything is slanted against the Scottish Government and along comes people with their hands on heart claiming to be indy supporters and the bulk of them will slot in a wee drip, drip drip, of, “The SNP needs to do something”, or, “The SNP needs to get professional help”, as if it is all just the SNP’s fault but some just come right out and say it out loud – The SNP are wrong but rarely do they give any indication of who they imagine, (besides themselves), who are right.

    Everyone can get the SNP/SG take on matters but prefer to boost the unionist anti-independence information providers.

  183. Nana says:

    Naina Bhardwaj’s guests on this week’s Full Scottish are Glasgow Councillor Mhairi Hunter and ???. We are starting this week with the reporting of allegations against Alex Salmond. Without any kind of due process, the former First Minister has gone from being the subject of allegations to “sex pest” in some the UK and Scottish media. On social media, it seems some pro-union journalists cannot contain their glee at the news.

    Through A Scottish Prism 26th Aug 2018

    The Faculty of Advocates has responded to the Scottish Government’s consultation regarding the impact of Brexit on family law.

  184. Nana says:

    Brexit: Debunking the Myths about the EU Position

    Free event

    Bernie Sargeant asks High Court to intervene in stand-off over QC-led inquiry into way her husband was treated by First Minister Carwyn Jones

  185. Giving Goose says:

    Re K1
    This confirms that Unionist parties collaborate together to keep Scotland down.
    Collaborate, collaboration – terms that evoke all sorts of images.
    But LibDems don’t care, nor do Labour.
    As long as they are serving the Tories with loyalty.

  186. Shug says:

    Well the stuff about salmond is all over the daily record and the bbc repeats it every 5 min
    Does anyone need more evidence it is all bollocks
    I have £20 it will be traced back to fluffy’s civil service tools
    Is sounda like a repeat of the attack on nicola

  187. Sinky says:

    Morning brightened by news that 2000 Freehold envelopes were returned to nasty Lib Dem MSP Alex Cole Hamilton who has called in police to complain.

  188. gus1940 says:

    Whwn politicians and/or media commentators attack the WM Governmnent nobody understands that to mean an attack on the Civil Service.

    What it means is an attack on the members of the governing party in particular the cabinet.

    Since ASgate started all the media as part of their hysterical feeding frenzy have kept on with the nonsense that Eck is attacking the Scottish Government which is Nicola and her cabinet when in reality he is attacking Lesley Evans and the Scottish Civil Service.

    Of course it serves the old Perfidious Albion Divide and Rule tactic to confuse people with this blatant misleading reporting.

    PQ are at it again this morning saying that the SG are denying any leak occurred. Does this mean that Clegg and co. broke into St Andrew House and stole the report?

  189. gus1940 says:

    Since Eckgate broke Wings seems to have been invaded by a bunch of newcomers none of whom seem sympathetic to the cause of INDY – what a coincidence.

  190. Danny says:

    Liz g says:11:31 pm

    Danny @ 10.59

    “Twitter…. That’s the answer….Twitter..”

    Liz g, I never mentioned Twitter once in my post. You seem to be on my case whenever I post anything Liz g..why?

    Did you forget that Alex Salmond has his own TV show, he could use outlets like that to discredit this woman. (For example).

    Liz g,,you post you thoughts and I will post mine,, I will not wind you up and I would expect the same from you.

    This has happened a few times with you now and they all seem to happen in the wee small hours. I seriously think you are coming onto Wings full of the Gabby Watter.

    My advice to you Liz g is lay off the drink if you are thinking of coming onto Wings.

    Liz g..There is also help out there if you do have a Drink problem. Alcoholics Anonymous do an excellent job and I am sure they will be only too willing to help you overcome your addiction.

  191. Macart says:


    Much appreciated Nana. Was only in and out of reading at the weekend, so playing catchup and caught your post of the other day.

    You provide an invaluable resource and focus on what’s truly important that everyone should be thankful is available.

    Why bother? Because in a sea of madness, you’re a quiet centre. That’s why. 🙂

    Kettle’s on.

  192. Ken500 says:

    The SNP keep on winning.

    That is the problem for some unionist gypes. Liars and crooks who can’t count or read a balance sheet. Westminster is full of them. Brexit mess. A complete and utter shambles. Scotland did not vote for this.

  193. IZZIE says:

    Off topic McWhirrter on GMS perhaps offering an explanation of why Salmondgate has come out now. If party suspends Alex it would provoke a backlash and split the Party. Promoting myth that conference will be tricky because of Indy 2 debate.

  194. Smallaxe says:

    Good morning, Nana.

    Thank you, for your links and for the time and effort you spend to bring our attention to matters of importance that can be used to change a No voter into a Yes voter.

    Kettle’s on!

  195. Ian McCubbin says:

    Amazing from effie.

    It does show the depths and centuries of what the establishment want to protect and hold on to.
    I think this is the final throes of banality from those on so called high position in SE England.
    they will face now more demos in Scotland 6 AUOB planned for 2019.
    Much more grass roots challenge and defections to our side.
    Effie is a ripe convert now it will just take a hearts and minds chat with her and some of us showing compassion.
    How may others can we turn.
    Lets use this horrible event to hold out olive branches.

  196. Meindevon says:

    Maybe this article by effie tells us something. And that is that deep down, ok really deep down in some instances, there is hope hope that one day you can chip away and find the Yesser in their soul.

    Be the better person when conversing with them. Don’t be offensive even if they are. As many have said, just plant a seed of doubt and walk away.

  197. Petra says:

    @ Macart says at 8:20 am ….. ”Nana .. You provide an invaluable resource and focus on what’s truly important that everyone should be thankful is available. Why bother? Because in a sea of madness, you’re a quiet centre. That’s why ?”

    Spot on Macart. I can’t begin to thank her enough too. Nana is totally invaluable, in fact totally indispensable to our cause now.

    Meanwhile we’ve got some real troublemakers on here such as Danny (8:13am) who has got the brass neck to accuse someone who occasionally posts on the twilight shift of having a drink problem. How dare he?! I also post in the wee small hours and hardly touch the stuff, so cut it out. You’re contributing nought to our cause other than attempting to put people off visiting the site. High time Rev Stu booted you off.


  198. Petra says:

    @ Macart says at 8:20 am ….. ”Nana .. You provide an invaluable resource and focus on what’s truly important that everyone should be thankful is available. Why bother? Because in a sea of madness, you’re a quiet centre. That’s why ?”

    Spot on Macart. I can’t begin to thank her enough too. Nana is totally invaluable, in fact totally indispensable to our cause now.

    Meanwhile we’ve got some real troublemakers on here such as Danny (8:13am) who has got the brass neck to accuse someone who occasionally posts on the twilight shift of having a drink problem. How dare he?! I also post in the wee small hours and hardly touch the stuff, so cut it out. You’re contributing nought to our cause other than attempting to put people off visiting the site. High time Rev Stu booted you off.


  199. Bobp says:

    DMH 11.33pm. When im back in Scotland visiting family, Scotland feels and looks like another country. Then i overhear the white noise of the propagandist sh**e in the background of ebc Scotland and realise i never left england.

  200. Ken500 says:

    Edinburgh Airport staff are not telling non EU passengers they have to get their boarding passes stamped. Ryanair. People are missing their flights because of it. It is giving Scotland a bad reputation.

  201. sassenach says:

    gus1940 says @8-13

    Agreed, coincidences are terrible things – wonder if they think we don’t know? Imbeciles!

  202. Sinky says:

    Sinky says: 27 August, 2018 at 7:43 am

    Should read :
    Morning brightened by news that 2000 FreePOST envelopes were returned to nasty Lib Dem MSP Alex Cole Hamilton who has called in police to complain.

    A man who was elected on a disgraceful campaign trashing Michelle Thomson who was never investigated by the police or charged with any offence.

  203. Ken500 says:

    Stop listening to the BBC. It just gives them oxygen by putting up the listening/viewing figures, The Conference will be even more successful. Mobbed as usual. Hope Alex is there. Everyone loves him. Gets the biggest cheer. It will make the Party stronger.

    Go get ’em Alex.

  204. Macart says:


    Just checked out the indyref2 piece and jings! A ‘hate blog’? Really? Unworthy of Mr Small to say the least. Perhaps he forgets just why people have become so anti UK media, especially amongst the YES movement. They’ve had to put up with a LOT. They’ve been under represented, mis represented, slandered, alienated and trolled by the UKs media on a daily basis for over five years. They have an absolute right to be angered and yes, loud about it.

    A healthy media in any democracy is a necessity. The more diverse, the better. It should however, reflect and represent the attitudes of the breadth of the population where it is based. As well as turning a quid or two for itself (obvs), it really should hold power to account. It should protect its readerships and wider society and should itself be accountable and held accountable by both the population and a regulatory body with real teeth.

    However, we do NOT have a healthy media. It does NOT reflect or represent the breadth of attitudes across our population. It only holds power to account selectively and according to its own needs. There is no regulatory body with teeth that can hold UK media to account. So that leaves….. what?

    People are the end user of a service and product here. When the service is basically bogging and the product not as billed? People are going to do what angry people generally do. They’re going to make their displeasure known and they WILL withhold their financial and popular support.

    Who knew?

  205. Gary45% says:

    GM/Reporting Shortbread, Slab etc are only interested in one thing, Mr Salmond to be suspended from the SNP so they will have a pathetic headline story that they would run with for probably no more than 24 hours, then its mission accomplished.
    (so far its been 1/2 hourly trying to get the story to stick).
    I have a wee laugh at the News?!paper headlines when I get the chance, just the same old, same old, total garbage from the gutter press.
    Remember when Mr Salmond stood down after Indy, the media were in meltdown thinking “job done”, unfortunately for them, Mr Salmond has more integrity in his bowel motions than all of them put together. My only problem is, if they can smear one, they can smear the whole of the SNP, on any garbage they make up.(and simply run with it)
    As for Ms Grant from Slab on GM Shortbread this morning, “What an Embarrassment”.

  206. Petra says:

    How about giving this guy a job, BBC?

    ?Chunky Mark: ‘Child bus bomber Theresa May v Da fuhrer Moogmeister?. ?Thousands of children at foodbanks, social care crisis, families torn apart, homeless, hundreds evicted by Tory landlords, prejudice for power as people’s pain pays for Tory stately homes grandeur and opulence FFS!! ? Sad.”


    ‘Indycar Gordon Ross 26 08 18 Van Rompuy and UK civil service.’

    ‘Van Rompuy, Ruth Davidson’s leaflets, Facebook restricting access to Gordon Ross’s account and the UK Civil Service… Holyrood being run by London.’

  207. IZZIE says:

    Ken 500 ‘stop listening to the BBC’ I follow the old adage ‘know your enemy’

  208. Ken500 says:

    Wonga going bust

  209. Tinto Chiel says:

    Nana: so many links I may smother them in fried onions and have them for lunch but this absolute beezer caught my jaundiced eye:

    How are the mighty fallen! Bella was always a bit of a Pseuds’ Corner/Malcolm Malcolm Politics Bar kinda joint but it had some very good contributors in its earlier, more broadminded days and was quite a handsome-looking site.

    I gave up, like many others, after its blatant shenanigans during the Holyrood elections.

  210. ronnie anderson says:

    Essentail reading is Our Nana’s links & dont forget to share widely XX .
    And we have more Wings internet ferrets , so’s well done to all the Rev can only do so much but ferret’s links are invaluable Big Tammy doft tae you’s Aw .

  211. Nana says:


    “A quiet centre” not so sure about that Sam, you should see me in a fury [which is most of the time]
    Trying to keep it positive is mighty difficult and especially over the last few days. Those of us who have been here a long time are well aware of what the monsters are capable of and that is why we must remain calm and carry on. Distractions and deceit is their way so lets fight back the only way we can and share information.

    For anyone who may not be aware, facebook are preventing Gordon Ross’s videos so here’s his youtube channel

    @Smallaxe Good to see you here 🙂

  212. Ken500 says:

    Bella gets the biggest hits. With folks seeing if they do not reach their fund raising.

  213. Nana says:

    @Macart 9.18am
    Jealousy is a dreadful thing Sam, eats a person up from the inside. Mr Small is merely diminishing himself further.

    Oops apologies Petra, I see you have just informed Wingers about Gordon’s youtube.

    Morning Tinto

    Now you know why I never link to Bella or Commonspace. Anyone know what Haggarty is doing these days?

  214. galamcennalath says:

    Re Bella. I gave up. It went off at a complete tangent to reality.

    What really summed things up was the fact that they pinned their flag to Rise, who in the final count got just 10,911 votes. A total irrelevance.

    Looking back, I have serious doubts about the whole Bella project. The Establishment has a long history of fostering Trojan Horses within movements to cause disruption, disaffection, and deflection.

    Best ignored.

  215. Dr Jim says:

    I made a post last night 12.22am which included the numbers 3011 years and I don’t know what I was thinking or how that happened, maybe some mental squirt of my brain but thank you @Petra for very kindly interpreting it as 311 years the way It was meant to read and my thanks for repeating it

  216. Liz g says:

    Danny 8.13
    No happening Danny,I’ll answer who I’ll like when I please.
    Trump defends himself on Twitter,and fine well ye know it!
    As to Alcohol…. You mibbi want to rethink using that to try to defend yerself Danny…. It’s not a good look either..
    Or will you be recommending that as a defence for Alex next?
    Me being drunk or sober disnay make yer comment any less shit.
    If you make a comment Danny ye should be willing tae defend it man,no try and throw other shit around…. That only equals mair shit Danny!!

  217. Meindevon says:

    @Bobp 8.38

    I know what you mean. I was up at the weekend (was at the footie for my sins…St Mirren!) and its all great with positive vibes and things going on in the community and a fair bit of new building goon on…then you stand in front of the newspaper stands and, well goodness knows what visitors must think of Scotland if they read them.

  218. Graf Midgehunter says:

    “BDTT –

    Hi Ian Brotherhood at 9:18 pm.

    You typed,
    “– it would be great, just for once, to have a team photie at the stall.”

    Here’s one from, I believe, September 2016, in George Square.

    Talk about “Natural born killers” – no wonder Jacob Leap-Frog won’t set foot in Scotland. 😉 🙂

  219. K1 says:

    ‘My advice to you Liz g is lay off the drink if you are thinking of coming onto Wings’

    Going ‘low’ there as a form of ‘debate’? Think you should maybe back off your keyboard if this is the sort of retort you’re going to ‘steep to’ when challenged on here?

    That’s ‘smearing’ and attempting to diminish a person’s reputation by impugning their character, just to be clear? That’s exactly out of the Trump playbook you were suggesting the SNP ‘stoop too’ also and that’s why it will never happen.

    People are free to comment on other’s comments on here and you’re not the decider of a person’s character just because you don’t like the comment? Play the ball…not the person…unlike Trump?

  220. Macart says:


    RE: Staying positive…

    That’s easy and I’m going to quote a poster from WGD here because the post was simply so true.

    “It will be all right in the end. If it’s not all right, it’s not the end.”

    That put a real smile on my face.

    Always remember. The opposition want this to be about personality. They want to tie independence, self determination and social progressiveness to a name. Destroy the name destroy the movement is their S.O.P. Why?

    They simply can’t fight an ideal and a grassroots movement is too big and too diverse a target.

    We can do this. We can be the change we want to see, but only if we stop buying into their concept of reality. We’re bigger and better than their wee schemes, because we’re not ‘A’ person. We’re an idea and a necessity that’s come of age.

  221. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Dr Jim 10.26: nae problemo.

    “We knew what you meant,
    We knew what you meant,
    We heard what you said but
    We knew what you meant.”

    It only feels like this accursed Union has lasted 3011 years…..

  222. Danny says:

    Liz g 10.27am

    I see you are still drunk.

    Can you point out in ANY of my posts where I said Alex Salmond should use Twitter?

    I compared The situation with Trump because of the way trump discredits the woman who are his accusers. As I said Alex has his own show and could use that outlet to get his case across.

    I see you also play to the “crowds” Liz g.

    You come across as a wee ned who needs their fix of Buckie before coming on here and trying to be some kind of “Hard Wummin”.

    Go and do somethin useful today, like go and take a fuck to yursel. Because going by your posts, nobody else will.

    Ya wee fuckin minger.

  223. Danny says:

    K1 10.38am

    “People are free to comment on other’s comments…”

    Ok K1,,mind yer ain fuckin business.

    What is it with nosey bastards who love playing to the “crowd”

  224. Dan Huil says:

    Another day another bucket-load of britnat BS. Oh well, it’ll all end in tears… for the britnats.

    Meanwhile the clock ticks towards a no deal in britnat brexitland. Scotland’s independence gets closer and closer.

  225. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Don’t, Liz

  226. Daisy Walker says:

    I very much appreciate and learn from Nana’s links – an intrinsic part of this site in mho.

    Well done Nana, and thank you, thank you, thank you.

    Lizg – you are Fearless, tireless and awesome. We shall not bow and we won’t be telt tae shut up either.

    Re Mr S. Rather think MSM are going to piss off even more folk with their patently unfair smear campaign… its too soon after Cliff Richard… and it doesn’t feel genuine.

    Aye’s on the prize right enough. Looking forward to Edinburgh.

    Cheerie all.

  227. Capella says:

    @ Liz g – complete ignoral, it’s the only cure for the bugs. You’re being targeted because you post very insightful comments and support other wingers thus contibuting to the spirit of friendship here. And that really upsets them.

  228. Highland Wifie says:

    “People are the end user of a service and product here. When the service is basically bogging and the product not as billed?”

    Nail on head. There’s only so much denial and pretence any provider of goods to the public can spin to the customer before It collapses. Attacking your competitors for being more successful doesn’t usually appear in the playbook and doesn’t normally result in a warm fuzzy response from your customers. Ah well.
    I used to access Bella from the app Yes2Hub which isn’t available since I upgraded iPad. Now that it’s an effort to look for I never make the effort as I would for others like WGD.

  229. Petra says:

    Anybody else had enough of ”Danny” on here? If so complain to Stu. He also reminds me of someone who targeted Liz before by calling her a slut. Decent posters on here, and more so the large majority who just visit the site, shouldn’t have to put up with this.

  230. Daisy Walker says:

    One for the crowd

    God bless this crowd and all its posters
    They’re mostly good, with one but roaster
    With lack of wit, he smears and blusters
    That’s the only thing he can but Muster

  231. Danny says:


    read my reply to Liz g at 10.52am and take that as a reply to you also.

    The Lesbian sister act came out in you there .

    You just had to butt in didn’t you.?

    I will keep this slagging match up as long as you want to. You bitches started this nonsense.

  232. Danny says:

    I see Dosy Wanker has joined the fracas.

  233. Sharny Dubs says:

    Sorry if this has already been said but I don’t have the time to read through your many and wise councils, however.

    I think it a sure sign of a snap election and they are preparing the ground work to stop Alex running or just to damage is chances.

    As for Iffie (whoever) what was that I was reading in the IScot about “framing” and everyone (including a complacent MSM) has merrily joined in?

    Alex is innocent, there can be no doubt, on you go big man, make their eyes water, but it’ll still be to late, and money is not their problem.

    We are!!

  234. Liz g says:

    Danny @ 10.52
    But Danny… I’m not playing??
    Trump may use TV and Twitter to “discredit “ women…
    A lot of men do try to discredit women
    Some even try do it on political blogs..
    I’m saying it’s not good advice for any Gent to be doing that!
    It would make them look ignorant and they almost always mention Fucking…
    Where as, in reality them that can do,and them that talk… well… shall we say “may”have difficulties?

  235. Dr Jim says:

    We’re not your enemy:

    Many people in the English region of the UK are dissatisfied with the UK medias coverage and insufficient abuse of Scotland, so much so that the people of the English region have taken it upon themselves to remedy the situation by taking to Twitter to abuse Scotlands First Minister and Scotlands population on the UKs behalf

    This constant abusing of a country these people don’t live in or pay tax in or indeed mostly have no stake in whatsoever seems particularly odd to me when they’re own region of England is falling apart at the seams yet they still find an abundance of time to abuse other countries people, they’re politics and their culture

    These same people don’t seem to turn up in the Twittersphere of Wales or Northern Ireland or even very much personally attacking many politicians of those areas so why Scotland?

    I have come to the conclusion this hatred is borne out of jealousy and its always been there but because in the paraphrased words of Martin Luthor King *Scotland has a dream* and well, they don’t, and they know they’re stuck in a system they can’t change they hate others for getting a chance at something the UK English regional government will never allow them to have

    The English folk of the region of England keep being conned just like Scotland always has but Scotland can do something about it, those poor folk can only get angry because they’re totally stitched up

    Don’t get angry at Scotland English folk, get angry at England for stuffing you up, and when you decide to do that Scotland will give you handers on how to do it

  236. Danny says:

    Dosy Wanker

    Butt out.

  237. Danny says:

    Daisy Walker

    Is this pay back time.

    Ya fuckin hing oot

  238. Nana says:


    I’ve borrowed that line 🙂 and hope you don’t mind but I’m hanging on to this one as well

    “We’re an idea and a necessity that’s come of age”

    One more link for today

    and this picture, what a brass neck

  239. Danny says:

    Liz g

    I see you are still sookin the Buckie.

    Like I said, you come across as a dried up old ned.

    Maybe that is why you only attract the Lesbian crowd like K1 and Dosy Wanker, who another another couple of old dried up neds.

    And you know what I mean by “Dried Up”

  240. Highland Wifie says:

    My guess is Alex Salmond will step down rather than be suspended to avoid the inevitable backlash.
    Those that think taking Alex out will damage the independence movement, just remember Nelson Mandela. That went well didn’t it?

  241. Liz g says:

    Danny @ 11.18
    You think you’re in a slanging match?
    You’re posting on Wings Over Scotland
    It’s a Political Blog
    You’re supposed to be defending yer comments .
    And when you say you could keep going… well I’m not convinced you would last very long..

  242. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Cheerio, Danny.


  243. Liz g says:

    Danny @ 11.39
    Clearly I’m no on your spectrum…. so naw Danny I haven’t a clue what ye mean by dried up.. is it a Tory euphemism?
    Do tell!!

  244. Liz g says:

    Highland Wifie @ 11.40
    I must admit I thought that too.
    If the pressure becomes (in his eyes) too much he will step down..
    But as you say… They thought they had delt with Mandela…
    He would be making quite a come back when this is cleared up.

  245. Liz g says:

    Smallaxe @ 11.53
    So funny… So true..LOL

  246. Capella says:

    @ Petra – just sent a complaint to Stu via the contact page but I see he has already dealt with the problem. So thanks for that.

  247. Liz g says:

    Rev stu @ 11.49
    Sorry Rev….

  248. Macart says:


    Feel free. 🙂

  249. Shinty says:

    and this picture, what a brass neck

    Ruth Davidson poster girl for the Yemen Appeal. FFS
    As been pointed out before ‘ you couldn’t give her a red neck with a blow torch’
    Thank goodness she will NEVER be First Minister of Scotland however much she tries to ‘beat the SNP’

    I detest the MSM & BBC for elevating Ruth Davidson way above her ability. If she were given half the scrutiny of Nicola or Alex her own party would have kicked her out long ago.

  250. orri says:

    11. If the Permanent Secretary considers that the report gives cause for concern over the former Minister’s behaviour towards current or former civil servants the former Minister should be provided with details of the complaint and given an opportunity to respond. The former Minister will be invited to provide a statement setting out their recollection of events to add to the record. They may also request that statements are taken from other witnesses. If additional statements are collected the senior officer will revise their report to include this information and submit this to the Permanent Secretary and share with the staff member. The Permanent Secretary will consider the revised report and decide whether the complaint is well-founded. The outcome of the investigation will be recorded within the SG. The Permanent Secretary will also determine whether any further action is required; including action to ensure lessons are learnt for the future.

    The loophole is that the Permanent Secretary doesn’t have to inform the accused unless the initial report gives the Permanent Secretary cause for concern. However if it does then details of the complaint need to be given. From Alex Salmond’s statement he’s only been informed of a complaint but no details have been passed on. Arguably the agreed procedure hasn’t been followed despite claims that it has.

    As I said on a previous thread, there’s a danger in investigations of this sort that witnesses will be primed or guided and bias introduced. Also as one of the allegations goes far beyond harassment and into assault the Police should have been brought in far sooner at which point Salmond would have been fully aware of exactly what he was being accused of rather than leaving himself open to having attempts are arbitration being interpreted as an admission of guilt.

  251. Fred says:

    Alex is not an MP or an MSP, just a party member, he has nothing to step down from!

  252. Liz g says:

    Fred @ 12.34
    Your right .. I should have said give up his party membership.
    And for the avoidance of doubt ( I’m in enough trouble Fred)
    I don’t think he should,I only think he would, if it looked like the best thing for the party..
    I think it’s his TV show and any role he would have in the upcoming General Election and Indy Ref they are targeting..

  253. Fred says:

    Liz, ah’m wan o yer biggest fans! Scottish Independence has been Alex Salmond’s life’s work, packing it all in after this nonsense would be a travesty & would look as if he had something to hide. Alex will keep on keepin on! We would expect nothing else.

  254. Liz g says:

    Fred @ 2.23
    Aw thanks Fred yer makin me blush…

    But now yer saying I suppose aye, yer absolutely correct,why he should do anything other than carry on.
    I hope this get clears up fast and as well as Indy we get enough demand to sort out the disgraceful media going forward..
    Believe me I’ve a fair few ideas about how our Constitution should deal with the media

  255. Petra says:

    @ Capella says at 12:02 pm …. ”Petra – just sent a complaint to Stu via the contact page but I see he has already dealt with the problem. So thanks for that.”

    Thank God he’s gone, although I suspect he was on here previously under another name. Totally beyond the pale.

    Thanks for dealing with this Stu.

  256. Sarah says:

    @Liz g 3.33. Good to see you’re bouncing back and Danny has been banished – Rev must have had a flood of reports [including a repeat from me].

    Oh boy I’m looking forward to getting some input into the duties of press and media once Scotland is restored to full statehood. And into how Holyrood should be conducted – no more of these waste of time procedures at FMQs, for example, nor waste of space irresponsible opposition MSPs – either do a proper constructive job or out you go [or paycut anyway].

    Meanwhile carry on speaking out and doing what we can in our own areas of influence.

  257. Bobp says:

    Meindevon 10.28am. Nowt wrong with the

  258. Liz g says:

    Sarah @ 3.57
    Thank You Sarah it was kind of you to take the time to report him…
    As I should really have done… Dave McEwan Hill @ 11.04 and Capella @ 11.07 were quite eight to caution not to engage… my bad….
    Anyhoo… Yes if anything should be in the Constution its a framework to deal with the awful media, I’m looking forward to the discussion too!
    And I hadn’t thought of a re organised Holyrood beyond the list MPs being limited to two terms … your right it does need thinking about .
    And don’t worry I will carry on … but hopefully rembering not to “carry on” with trolls while I’m doing it. LOL..

  259. Onwards says:

    Thepnr says:
    26 August, 2018 at 12:55 pm
    >The Equality Act 2010 is a case of civil law and is there to protect employees from being subjected to unpleasant behaviour in the workplace from colleagues and others associated with the business.

    If after an employer carries out an investigation they believe that the accused has in fact gone further and that in fact a criminal offence such as assault has occurred then they may choose to report the matter to the police. The person who believes that they have been assaulted could report the matter to the police at any time of course.

    I’m curious why the accuser would choose not to go to the police. If someone feels they are the victim of a crime, why go through an internal process years later? Perhaps the police need higher standards of evidence? Or leaking is less likely? I can’t really make sense of it.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top