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An end to the matter

Posted on December 17, 2015 by

Remarkably, it seems some angry Unionists are still trying to dispute the known facts surrounding the Forth Road Bridge closure. We’d like to think this quote from today’s Central Fife Times – from Tony Martin, the man who was convenor of the authority managing the bridge until a few months ago – was unambiguous enough to settle it once and for all.


That’s from the man who ought to know more about it than any human alive, and who as a Lib Dem councillor has no reason to make excuses for the Scottish Government.


It’s over, angry Unionists. Deal with it.

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    1. 17 12 15 23:43

      An end to the matter | Speymouth

    206 to “An end to the matter”

    1. Wills says:

      aw……never let facts get in the way of a good bout of nay bashing……
      I personally thought the last Forth Bridge Q&A article pretty much said it all.
      Wonder if Jackie Bailie is still pressing for an enquiry ?????

    2. caledonia says:

      They know that though what they are trying to do is put over a lie and keep repeating it till some will have doubt

      wonder what they think at night lying to the people they want support from

    3. heedtracker says: sobs into his UKOK unionist pillow tonight but he’s already asked Santa to delay the FRB opening for months, which cheers him a lot, becasue as everyone knows, Santa Claus is British.

    4. scotsbob says:

      The really annoying part is that we taxpayers will have to fund the enquiry.
      The only purpose of the enquiry is to keep generating more anti Scottish government headlines in the run up to the election.

    5. Thepnr says:


      There exists a LibDem that is truthful. Who’d have thought that?

    6. K1 says:

      Ayep! Exactly what I thought when I read it earlier Stu.

      That’s one of the most sensible pieces of journalism I’ve seen in recent months from a source that isn’t Wings, on any subject. But especially heartening for it to come right from the ‘horse’s ‘mooth’: Tony Martin, regarding the FRB.

      Now the rest of you so called journalists who have been milking this non story for the past week, can all just fuck off.

    7. galamcennalath says:

      Yes, as Martin also says …

      “The inspection and report we had done at that time said we could put this off until 2016. With the knowledge we had, it was right to put it off until the new bridge was open.”

      … so that’s recent events clarified.

      Now, can we focus on why Labour avoided starting a new Forth crossing almost 20years ago? Therein lie the real roots of the mess!

    8. Onwards says:

      I don’t see why any enquiry should take more than a day.
      The whole issue is summed up right there.

    9. farnorthdavie says:

      Funny this first hand account has not made the online news pages of BBC Scotland!

      I seem to recall that it was a major story last week when SNP had allowed this to happen.

    10. Ian Murray says:

      A tissue of lies
      If the SNP had offered to go on TV to debate the topic the Media would have declined to appear

    11. peter says:

      Aw Naw hes gonnae be sorry when Wee Wullie gets a haud o him!

    12. donald anderson says:

      There is more angst about the Bridge over the River Forth than the squinty Bridge over the River Kwide: about as straight as the Labour’s British Road to Chauvinism.

      Does anyone remember Buchanan St, Glesga being repaved? It took longer to build than the Burma Road in WWII.

    13. Clootie says:

      One LibDem politician lies and the media rush to print his falsehood.
      Another tells the truth and the coverage is scant.

      The CorpMedia decide the news and therefore shape the information available. Once again the Internet (WoS in particular) highlight a blatant attempt to make the story instead of investigating the story.

      Only “SNP bad” will be allowed print and airtime in our “Unionist Province” between now and next May ( I suspect it will continue after that)

    14. heedtracker says:

      Messages of support pouring for Lord Darling’s vital and noble FRB protest. Brave.

      Lord Darling ?@A_LordDarling 7h7 hours ago
      #FRB protest, hour 270: Gone for a walk. My phone battery is lasting a surprisingly long time, frankly.

    15. jimnarlene says:

      “I don’t think a different government would have made a different decision.”

      Except they did, they decided not to build a new bridge, which lead to this state of affairs.

    16. heedtracker says:

      Shame on Holyrood politicians. The Scottish parliament has served Scotland ill. Amid the blethering about more powers, and vanity projects geared principally to the Referendum, they have taken their eye off the ball.

      Tam Dalyell

      House of the Binns


      House of Binns looks a nice rest home for red tories like Tam, all paid for by sucka taxpayer too

      And its only £10.50 to get in, to see a real live red tory, raging away against Scottish democracy, he thought SLab owned for ever.

    17. msean says:

      That Trump thing again,thought it was a Labour First Minister who made Trump a global ambassador,not Mr Salmond.

    18. Jamie Arriere says:

      Amen, here endeth this week’s lesson. Thank God, to finally read someone being reasonable about the FRB

      Bad week for the yoons given the lack of funding for the outrage manufacturing industry in John Swinney’s budget.

      Still I’m sure they’ll keep it open themselves until May

    19. ahundredthidiot says:

      OK, here goes

      This bridge business affects people, of course it does.

      But for the rest of Scotland. Jesus. It’s T shirt of the week.

      Soon forgotten.

    20. louis.b.argyll says:


    21. Grizzle McPuss says:

      A Christmas Cracker: The morning after…

      “What’s to-day?” cried Alex Rowley, calling downward to a boy.

      “Eh?” returned the boy, with all his might of wonder.

      “What’s to-day, my fine fellow?” said Alex Rowley.

      “To-day?” replied the boy. “Why, Political TELT Day.”

      ” Political TELT Day!” said Alex Rowley to himself “Fuck me, I’m goosed…again”

    22. Ruby says:

      The only question I have is why did Labour not build the bridge earlier. Why did all three Unionist parties think trams were more important than the bridge.

    23. Grouse Beater says:

      Am working here in Edinburgh with numerous companies based in Fife – using alternative bridges they’ve only had their normal daily schedule disrupted once, and that was the day after the bridge closed.

    24. Clapper57 says:


      Need to be serious for this post…only do this once !

      Tonights’s question Time….Hannah…Hannah…Hannah..on Donald Trump….it was Jack McConnell in 2006 NOT Alex Salmond who made him Scottish Global Gobsh**te Ambassador THING!!!!

      I almost had a seizure, willing her to announce this and kill it for good, as once again, dig dig by other panelists with Snidey remarks about Salmond who they , whilst laughing, gave ownership / blame for this .

      Know she is new but come oan…..question had to be anticipated/known SURELY re Trump and predictable aspertions made re this towards Salmond…..

      Noted once again UKIP attack on Scotland , Nutcase Nuttal on previous QT now Feckless Reckless . Do they know Coburn’s an MEP in Scotland ! Do they care….No …do they cocoa !

      UKIP needs to get honest….come on…come on.. you are the English “Independent” Party….man up….if they cannae get the real name of their party sorted out what right do they have attacking Scotland’s “Independent ” party !!.

    25. Saor Alba says:

      Well done and well said Councillor Martin.
      You deserve much credit for your statement and your integrity.

    26. Thepnr says:

      How is responsible for SNP representatives appearing on any program in the British propaganda machine? Does anyone know?

      Their bloody job is to have them as well informed on the likely topics as the interviewers have been by their researchers.

      Does anyont possibly think that the likes of David Dimbleby, Gordon Brewer, Gary Roberson or Andrew Neil have not been briefed and don’t have the facts at their fingertips or in their earphones?

      Of course not. The SNP must get even more professional when putting people forward for high profile TV shows.

      It’s about the only chance the SNP ever get to put their point of view against a hostile media. Well. FFS get it right when given that oppertunity.

      Seriously thre really is no excuse for not having the facts. Their media controllers have to do much much better. Pull your socks up and stop embarrassing us that know better than you do!

    27. Roland Smith says:

      Clapper I agree about Hannah and Trump. It was the same on channel 4 news this week when Tasmina let the same claim about Donald Trump pass her by without any explanation of the facts.

      I dont know who in the SNP is responsible for briefing MPs appearing in the media, but frankly they are not very good at their job. And if they dont have anyone doing that function thats incompetence.

    28. heedtracker says:

      The only question I have is why did Labour not build the bridge earlier

      We’ll never know.

      My Xmas question is RT by my Slovene girlfriend

      Adam Tomkins Retweeted
      Douglas Fraser ?@BBCDouglasF 15h15 hours ago
      New powers, new era, so new skills and thinking needed at Holyrood. #scotbudget blogged:

      Vote NO for The Vow’s turned out to be historic UKOK fraud so what are the New powers, how can it be a new era?

      Again. these bbc bullshitters will never tell us. Maybe this spiv is saying bbc attack propaganda needs new skills now.

    29. Grouse Beater says:

      “Tonights’s Question Time….Hannah…Hannah…Hannah..on Donald Trump….it was Jack McConnell in 2006 NOT Alex Salmond who made him Scottish Global Ambassador!!!”

      Not really good enough, is it? Not when you hand a bout of derision on a plate to the ill-informed. And that includes Dimbleby who has used that interventionist line before.

      They are so damn brainwashed into hating Salmond they believe their own black propaganda. But that’s the English mentality. You simply can not trust them when they assume their government is virtuous over all others.

    30. Iain More says:

      My first reaction to the article is what in the hell is he doing in the Lib Dems?

      Now can we get back to those Brit Nat NIMBYs that delayed the building of the new bridge in the first place.

    31. Capella says:

      Mr Martin will be getting his jotters soon. Oh well.

    32. Tam Jardine says:


      We were all thinking the same thing- It was Jack McConnell!

      Having said that, I thought Hannah performed well in general amidst a very right wing panel. She is good in the Commons too.

      A little nervous tonight perhaps. None of us are perfect.

    33. ScottishPsyche says:

      I don’t know who is their spokesman since Kevin Pringle left but the SNP really need to sharpen up. It shouldn’t be left up to Wings and twitter to have to firefight all the time.

      I wonder what the next thing will be? I saw a while back twitter chat between 2 journos that the Yoon press had 4 SNP MPs in their sights. I would imagine they will keep the worst till just before May.The SNP machine needs to step up and anticipate problems rather than wait until another smear gains traction.

      NHS and Education still being unfairly maligned, yet the message is relentless that they are failing. Seemingly trivial things like Alex Salmond being blamed for appointing Trump, again not being rebutted sharply enough. The ridiculous ‘black hole’ doomsday scenario of independence being wheeled out ad nauseam.

    34. call me dave says:

      @Grizzle McPuss

      I liked that. 🙂

      Mr Martin Lib Dem know him a little bit from when SNP/LibDems ran Fife Council together. Pity they decided to hook up with labour and Mr Rowley to keep the SNP out last time round.

      But things looks good for next time.

      Anyhoo! Nice to hear him put the record straight.

      Here is that bit you mentioned from the best scrooge film version IMO.
      Alaister Sim is scrooge .

    35. Thepnr says:

      Shouldn’t have typed so furiously, apologies for the mistakes, message remains the same though.

      Better preparation for interviews is required, my real feeling is that this is something the SNP are NOT doing, advising how to handle the media. Could be wrong of course but if I am, why is it that so often the representatives slip up on the basics.

      If we have to pull our socks up so to do you. Are you listening?

    36. Tackety Beets says:

      Heedtracker , I did a post earlier , not appeared.

      Had a link , maybe I ersed it up and I’ll be duly “Hammerred” in ma sleep.

      Google “Santa is a Scotsman”


      Just left an OT post on “He can’t get no satisfaction”

      Perhalps some SNP members contact SNP and suggest the SNP Admin set up a wee word doc which is e-mailed to ALL SNP MPs ,MSPs, media spoke persons & maybe even members.
      This document is a list of FACTS e.g. The Donald Trump / Joke McConnell and so on , which are topical and current.

      As new items become current the relative FACTS are added to the top of the list and the older ones slip down. They should be memorised naturally in time.

      Like others here I find these missed opportunities fe@£ing annoying .

    37. Ronnie says:

      I’ve just fired off a query to the SNP asking them to justify why they are either ordering our elected representatives to allow the Trump/Salmond/McConnell lie to go unchallenged or exposing them to media questioning without adequate briefing of the facts.

      I sincerely hope that, come 2016, an Al Alamein style barrage of facts will be launched, as I’m fed up of trying to defend the wishy-washy Blair Jenkins style of meek acceptance of these media lies.

      It often seems to me that WoS is the only home of ‘Chiels that winna ding’.

    38. yesindyref2 says:

      Dr Scott! Worse than chokka. I did look at his bridge post. Talk about taking quotes out of context. If I said:

      “There are questions to be asked about the FRB, but it’s clear FETA and the Scottish Government made the best choice avaliable at the time”

      I’d be quoted as saying “There are questions to be asked about the FRB”.

    39. Ronnie says:

      ‘El’ not ‘Al’ – Doh!

      So angry, my Arabic grammar is suffering.

    40. Still Positive. says:

      BBC QT is recorded earlier. Perhaps Hannah Bardell’s comment was edited out.

    41. yesindyref2 says:

      An inquiry is practically certain to show that it was up to FETA rather than the Scottish Government which gives the amusing situation that the LibDem and Labour councillors involved will be falling over themselves to say they made the right choice, thereby exonerating the SNP Government.

      How droll!

      Personally I think FETA did make the right decisions. That the bridge was open until the 4th December this year, just months before the FRC opens, proves that.

    42. Al-Stuart says:

      heedtracker says: 17 December, 2015 at 10:51 pm sobs into his UKOK unionist pillow tonight but he’s already asked Santa to delay the FRB opening for months…

      Is it just me, or is someone who has to call themselves “Dr Scott” on Twitter and Facebook fora, indicative of someone with a massive inferiority complex.



      an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behaviour in compensation.

      Has anyone witnessed “Dr Scott” appearing aggressive by way of compensative behaviour?

      Methinks this guy fits that bill, and as such, perhaps is best ignored.

    43. Dr Jim says:

      I’m quite sure Labour would have built the bridge if they knew there was a Bung in it (Is that a Technical term?)

      The made sure Embra got Trams (Ooops)

      Question: Anybody know how the Holyrood Magazine is financed?
      I’m being genuinely serious, I really don’t know

      It’s just that there seem to be a goodly number of folk employed there

      Controversial Question: Why is it that Michelle Thompson accused of nothing more than selling a house for a profit is such a horrendous crime she loses the Whip and is suspended from her party is to be reviled at every opportunity when (here it comes) an alcoholic shambling embarrassment who turned up drunk practically everywhere he went and even spoke in Parliament drunk is lauded as a great guy and should go down in history as a credit to his Liberal Democrat Party (Charles Kennedy) not saying he wasn’t a nice fella but is that the point?

      Natalie McGarry same question eg; Alistair Carmichael

      Ruth Davidson investigated for electoral wrong doings,
      NOTHING no standing down no withdrawal of whatever passes for the whip at Holyrood

      Now we know who reads Wings in Holyrood so maybe just a wee plea for some fairness to our own here Boss!!!

      Question: What possesses Scotland Tonight and indeed BBC 2015 to think if they fill up a studio with “Psychic Journalists” all too willing to tell us what a whole country thinks that a whole country actually gives a shit about how they came about their Psychic abilities

      Some folk may have missed the part in tonights Journalistic fest of fun on Scotland Tonight but David Clegg at one point said to Mandy Rhodes about the so called “Frenchgate leak” QUOTE “I wish it had been leaked to me”

      Do we think he means the Daily Record would have of course investigated this spurious nonsense first and then dismissed it out of hand as the lie it was or do we think something entirely different
      They say when you’re
      constantly unpleasant the Gods visit punishment on your Arse, I can only hope

    44. frankieboy says:

      Kezia will ignore it, Jaba will tell a lie about it, BliarMcD will try and delete it and the BBC will report it as’ LibDem Councillor says SNP bad’.

    45. twathater says:

      Genuine question, when SNP politicians like Hannah Bardell and others constantly quote that Scottish people are overwhelmingly in favour of remaining part of the EUROPEAN Union, can anyone tell me when and where this survey took place and what the results were, as I and many people I have spoken to are totally opposed to remaining within this neocon club

      As I have posted previously on here I voted SNP and i voted for INDEPENDENCE, I did not vote for the removal of subjugation to the English to be replaced by subjugation to the Germans,French,Spanish and the rest.

      I want Scotland and the Scots to be truly independent not tied to and governed by European despots

      Can we have some discussion on this

    46. jdman says:

      I read this earlier,
      An there wis me thinkin the Lgelly times wis only guid fur drawin the fire an finin oot who hud deed.

    47. jdman says:

      “Seriously thre really is no excuse for not having the facts. Their media controllers have to do much much better. Pull your socks up and stop embarrassing us that know better than you do!”


      jdman says:
      17 December, 2015 at 8:57 am

      I just sent Roger Mullin an email
      I read Craig Murrays blog with a growing sense of alarm ,I was one of the people who told him to get over himself when he wasn’t selected to stand for the SNP I get that the SNP runs a tight ship and applaud you for that, but what I can not understand is the SNP’s seeming dislike of him when he clearly supports the cause of independence,

      Are we so replete with enough independence supporters that we can pick and choose what type of support we will welcome and other “types”are persona non grata, eg Rev Stu Campbell who does far more to keep the independence cause alive than many (I’m sorry to say) SNP MP’s , eg Tasmina Ahmed Sheiks inability to correct her inquisitor that Trump was not made a “Global Scot” by Alex Salmond but Jack McConnell,

      Are we to see a continuation of the (frankly) lacklustre performance of the SNP so disappointingly displayed during the referendum campaign, which everyone (including me) was waiting for the killer punch to be unleashed in the last week of the campaign just to see our magnificent grassroots campaign so badly let down by people such as Jenkins (I googled “leader of the yes campaign” and the response was “Alex Salmond) I knew we were going to lose the minute he was stuck in front of a camera and challenged to say that he felt the BBC were biased, and he cravenly said “NO”

      When Oh when is the SNP going to take a zero tolerance approach to the fallacious outpourings of the media, who have become noticeably bolder in their base lies knowing that Westminster has their back,

      It is simply not good enough to say “oh but we don’t get a chance to put out the SNP message by the BBC/STV shills”, when we do get the chance eg Tasmina, we MUST NOT squander it,

      My God even Angus Robertson (of all people) got caught by a puerile assault by Andrew Neil with a complete pile of nonsense and who, when Rev Stu Campbell completely demolished his plainly idiotic assertion that the only area of the UK NOT to suffer cuts was Scotland, felt confident enough to brass it out on twitter in the sure knowledge the SNP would not stand up to him, I am seriously beginning to wonder if the party has reached the peak of its ambitions and happy to sit back and enjoy it while it lasts,

      The SNP gave us the desire, it MUST not assume that the support of the public is without consequences, the Slab found out the hard way that what the voters giveth the voters can taketh away, for everyone’s sake don’t dismiss your support, or you may forever regret it!
      On another note if the Tories propaganda machine don’t want BBC ALBA why don’t we offer to take off their hands?

      Just imagine documentaries of the outstanding quality of “Diomhair” being transmitted in English!

      Have a great Christmas Roger
      regards John king

      Apparently Dave McEwan Hill didn’t think much of it

    48. jdman says:

      “They say when you’re
      constantly unpleasant the Gods visit punishment on your Arse, I can only hope”

      Ooh that doesn’t sound nice,
      Im thinking red hot pokers

      I have a Santa t-shirt
      that says “I can explain”
      would that help?
      sits squirming uncomfortably.
      “So angry, my Arabic grammar is suffering.”

      I know what you mean
      I often find myself saying
      ?? ???? ???? ????
      instead of
      ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???????
      its a bitch.
      I heard there were people in Ulan Bator screaming at their tv’s saying
      “It was Jack McConnell you lying son of a bitch”

    49. cearc says:

      I couldn’t agree more, John. it really is about time that the SNP grew a pair. A pair of boxing gloves would be handy.

      It is happening too often that easy responses on topical subjects are missed, it seems through poor knowledge or briefing. Very poor indeed.

      They are no longer a small party needing to not scare the horses too much to establish their credibility. They are a major party, the largest in Scotland and the third largest at Westminster. Time to behave like it.

    50. jdman says:

      It obviously doesn’t like Arabic grammar
      here it is again NOT in Arabic script
      hasanana klna yukhti
      instead of
      kan jak makunil lak alkadhib abn aleahira

    51. jdman says:

      I don’t think Google translations are working very well,
      I translated that script back into English and here’s what I got

      “Jean-Jacques Created penis you son of confusion”

      Here’s wot I wrote

      “It was Jack McConnell you lying son of a bitch”
      I like the first one better. 🙂

    52. Ken500 says:

      Mundell thinks Scotland should pay higher tax to pay for Trident/illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud through the City of London, including Whisky companies. HMRC not fit for purpose. UK tax Laws are not enforced by Westminster. Multinationals making vast profits pay no tax. Damaging British business.

      Westminster/Osbourne take 50% of Oil production + 25% tax = 75%. Losing thousands of jobs. More oil and Gas has to be imported putting up the balance of payment deficit and the debt. Scotland can’t develop Oil & Gas on the West because of Westminster policies. Scotland can’t put a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink or sugar, to lower consumption. Scotland has to pay £4Billion on debt repayments on money, it doesn’t borrow or spend. Westminster are sanctioning vulnerable people and starving them. Cold, hungry, worried people get sick. Costing Scotland £Billions.

      Scotland will put a tax on land for the wealthy tax evading Non Doms. Scotland will have another Referendum, especially if there is a NO Vote in the rest of the UK to the EU and Scotland votes YES.

      The UK Union and the EU Union are totally different organisations. EU membership benefits Scotland UK membership doesn’t. EU membership is an agreed (small) contribution which comes back. UK does not. Good social Laws, employment Laws and Human Rights Law comes from EU. They are enshrined in Devolution. To lose EU Law would change Devolution. Scotland’s right to self determination and Independence. Scotland was promised FFA, Home Rule, Federalism.
      Where is it?

      Many of those complaining about cuts are the Vote NO. 5%. They voted for cuts and Scottish revenues being wasted by Westminster policies. Cuts to the Scottish economy because of Westminster policies. 15% didn’t vote.

      The SNP are still doing a great job. Trump is a diversion.

    53. Ken500 says:

      Nowhere to hid in Scotland for Westminster Tories. Uno.

    54. cearc says:


      Lost in translation?

    55. jdman says:

      “It really will be embarrassing watching the knots they tie themselves in trying to explain this away”

      Eh… Rev Stu Campbell, meet Duncan Hothershall.
      the inventor of cognitive dissonance.

    56. jdman says:

      “Cognitive dissonance was first investigated by Leon Festinger, arising out of a participant observation study of a cult which believed that the earth was going to be destroyed by a flood, and what happened to its members — particularly the really committed ones who had given up their homes and jobs to work for the cult — when the flood did not happen.

      While fringe members were more inclined to recognize that they had made fools of themselves and to “put it down to experience”, committed members were more likely to re-interpret the evidence to show that they were right all along (the earth was not destroyed because of the faithfulness of the cult members).”= Duncan Hothershall

    57. Free Scotland says:

      Hmmm. That’s strange. I listened to the headlines on BBC radio Scotland at seven o’clock, and nobody mentioned the ehm … you know … ehm … the Forth Road Bridge. In fact, it was not even mentioned once in the travel update. Weird.

    58. jdman says:

      Free Scotland @7.43

      And yet…no never mind.
      #brain fart
      I really need to stop the Aesops fables last thing at night. 🙁

    59. jdman says:

      How long before some genius from Slab says

      “Ok we get that FETA were in charge and that they would have got the money to fix the bridge if they had asked for it an all, but why did they have to look at the crack in the first place, if they hadnt a looked at it, it wouldn’t have existed ” #DAMNYOUREYESSNP

    60. Charles mc says:

      We should tweet any snp mp/msp who is about to be on tv answers to questions that we all know will come up

    61. McDuff says:

      Couldn`t agree more, For too long the SNP have been feckless when being interviewed by an aggressive MSM and seem to have no game plan for such. As I have said before if they need any facts and figures, READ WINGS!
      I am getting fed up with their lack of assertion.

    62. AndyB says:

      I didn’t think it was possible to see a worse Scottish Labour group than the one led by Iain Gray.

      I was wrong.

      I didn’t think it was possible to see a worse Scottish Labour group than the one led by Johann Lamont.

      Wrong again.

    63. jdman says:

      AndyB @8.13

      Surely this time…oh

    64. The Isolator says:

      FFS the pant wetting and hysteria over no calling oot the liars on the TV channel built on lies.

      No enough face palms to do it justice.

      If the polls reverse go on the attack,until then I’ll sit back and watch these fuckers melt fae the heat o the fire.

      SNP x 2.

    65. Broch Landers says:

      You can strut about waving the truth, but it will never bridge the credibility gap.

      The media promotes the suspension of disbelief; its lies remain the pillars of authority.

      Especially when spoken in estuary English.

      We need a replacement.


    66. Broch Landers says:

      frankieboy says:
      18 December, 2015 at 3:26 am

      Kezia will ignore it, Jaba will tell a lie about it, BliarMcD will try and delete it and the BBC will report it as’ LibDem Councillor says SNP bad’.

      They all work so well together.

    67. Jamie says:

      The main thing the SNP have done wrong is privatise the maintenance of the bridge. If they had not done this, the problem may have been rectified earlier. The worst aspect is that none of the opposition seem to be focusing on that point. Probably because they would have done the same but nevertheless the SNP deserve harsh words for this. They should not get away with everything that goes wrong just because they share similar views on independence, that is how they will get sloppy. This bridge issue is one example where I think the SNP are getting sloppy. They deserve some blame for this and if you can’t see it your in denial. Stuff the opposition this is just being honest.

    68. Will Podmore says:

      twathater rightly asked for some discussion on the neocon EU.
      Ken500 responded by claiming that “Good social Laws, employment Laws and Human Rights Law comes from EU.”
      This is not so. The only guarantee of good social laws and employment laws is strong trade union organisation. Employment lawyer John Hendy has dealt with this question in his paper ‘The terrible tale of the EU and trade union rights’, available at
      Please read this paper.

    69. Anagach says:

      Jamie says:

      The main thing the SNP have done wrong is privatise the maintenance of the bridge. If they had not done this, the problem may have been rectified earlier.

      Not really. The problem only appeared in the last few weeks.

      The only work that might have avoided the problem was major replacement and upgrade work that would have closed the bridge for months – and that was rejected by FETA because of the benefit versus disruption argument.

      So I dont think it would have matter private or public on this one issue.

    70. Krackerman says:

      Jamie – do live in a parallel universe or something? Can you explain to me how the fault would have been fixed quicker under FETA than under AMEY when the fault only occurred a few weeks ago?

      Just let me strap myself in for this one – I guess it’ll be howler. If it involves chap with a long scarf and a blue box I’ll be disappointed though.

    71. Robert Peffers says:

      @peter says: 17 December, 2015 at 11:16 pm

      “Aw Naw hes gonnae be sorry when Wee Wullie gets a haud o him!”

      Naw! if Wullie taks haud o onyain they jist shake him aff.

      Like ye wad dae wi sumthin stinky stuck oan yer shoe whit ye’d tramped oan.

    72. Tam Dalyell has a letter in today’s Dundee courier 18/12/15
      titled Holyrood neglected the Forth Road Bridge.

      He claims the attempt to shove the blame on officials of transport Scotland who advised a strengthening programme only to have their advice accepted and then immediately overturned is contemptible.

      and shame on Holyrood politicians have served Scotland ill.

    73. Krackerman says:

      Peter McCulloch – it’s like you didn’t even read the article above or the comment from Tony Martin who I think would know more about this than this Tam bloke you refer to.. This this Tam guy an engineer? Was he on the board of FETA that made these decisions? No and No.

      Shame on unionist who keep flogging dead horses and demanding investigations that will only lead to their own doorsteps.

    74. Graham MacLure says:

      “Throwing a boomerang.”

      Closing something for maintenance is never popular and the “Boomerang” is thrown as soon as maintenance is deferred.
      With luck the “Boomerang” hits its target meaning there are no unfavorable consequences.
      On the other hand if things go wrong the “Boomerang” you have thrown returns to smack you on the head!
      The real skill (as seen by some)is to have moved on before any come back and someone else is standing there, which is what the Unionists, with one notable exception, are belatedly attempting.

    75. Chic McGregor says:

      “Angry unionists”

      Sounds like a suggestion for a new video game.

      “Angry Jackies”?

      Or would that be allowing them too much gravitas?

    76. HandandShrimp says:

      The opposition desire to try and make political capital out of the bridge closing for repairs is I think going to be an own goal.

      It has highlighted the importance of the crossing to the economy.

      It has highlighted how the FRB is being worn out by being massively over stretched

      It demonstrates the importance of the second bridge

      It has reminded people who opposed the SNP “vanity project” of the second bridge.

      The FRB will reopen soon and the inconvenience will take a back seat but by May the new crossing will b well on its way to completion. Labour will have little to say about that because they were on the wrong side of sane decision making again.

    77. Ken500 says:

      Goverance ensure good Social Laws for all. Trade Unions have limited participation/membership. Limited unelected ability.

    78. Chic McGregor says:

      OT (unless making the association of the bid of No Trumps in Bridge 🙂 )

      Found this useful bit of info on Andy Wightman’s blog.

      “On 22 April 2006, First Minister Jack McConnell invited Donald Trump Sr. to become a GlobalScot. On 30 April, Donald Trump accepted the personal invitation and Mr McConnell stated that,
      “Donald has shown me a real passion for Scotland. He is a globally recognised figure who can help us to promote Scotland. I am delighted that he has taken up my offer. This is a good bit of business for all concerned.””

    79. Ali says:

      Cowdenbeath stepping up to the plate these days, yahoorsir. First chucking out radge Labour MSPs and now this

    80. heedtracker says:

      Lord Darling ?@A_LordDarling 17m17 minutes ago
      #FRB protest, Hour 301: The Forth road bridge still isn’t open. Christmas on pause.

      Good luck Lord Alistair, crowd fund started, hands across the Forth protest coming to the rescue and also building another rockery of Britishness.


    81. Jamie says:

      Krackerman and aganach- it has been stated in the media that this fault was known about a year ago but AMEY chose not to fix and as such saved a large amount of money and it was suggested that the government body would have fixed it as it places safety above profit. I think that is a fair point.

    82. Dr Jim says:

      The mere fact that everyone and his dog are out to lay as much blame as they can on the Scottish Government for this BRIDGE in the hope that come the Elections SNP vote share will go down and somehow a flicker of hope will emerge in the used to be Labour party surely should be a signal to us all how desperate the Yoons are to claw back any little thing they can to make themselves feel better

      Thing is, it’s not going to happen, at this moment Nicola Sturgeon would have to commit the worst imaginable crime live on air and she still would probably win

      Such is the desire to punish the Yoon Parties in Scotland that every SNP Baad story the Yoons come up with will only increase the SNP vote so really there’s little point in them trying

      The moment the Campaign proper starts Nicola Sturgeon will go into full on attack and destroy mode on the Yoons and total charm offensive on the Electorate and will sweep all before her and once again the media will Greet it’s Fukcing eyes oot trying to find ways to stop her and once again the SNP will emerge victorious

      It’s gonnae happen!!

      Next we need Cameron to make an Arse of himself some more, Brexit the EU and with a wee bit of luck it’s game on

    83. Grouse Beater says:

      Published before the Referendum. Still, if not more relevant after, worth slapping on the forehead of every dufus of a No voter:

    84. @Krackerman
      I did read the above article from Tony Martin, what I was highlighting in my post, is ex Labour MP Tam Dalyell’s letter is attempting to place blame for the state of the Forth road bridge on the Scottish Government at Hollyrood.

      We all know it was the Labour dominated quango FETA that decided to delay carrying out repairs on the Forth Bridge until 2016

    85. Cal says:

      Re. EU membership.
      There’ll be time enough to decide whether we should remain in the EU AFTER we’re independent. Untill then I feel our lords and masters should enjoy a full and incorporating union with THEIR lords and masters in Brussels. Let history be our guide here. Scotland losing her sovereignty was the best thing that ever happened to her. No? Aren’t we UKOK Better Together after all. Or are the Kippers just being hypocritical bastards? For now it’s got to be EUOK Mieux Ensemble mes amis!

    86. Bob Mack says:


      The fault which has closed the bridge is NOT the one anybody, or their aunty, found a year ago.

      It is only recently that the split in the cable tie happened.

    87. Krackerman says:

      Jamie – a year ago the bridge was under the control of FETA not AMEY – which I think rather blows your own argument out of the water.

      It’s not a fair point – it’s total nonsense and flies in the face of every piece of evidence produced including the personal statement of Cllr Martin at the top of this post.

    88. Grouse Beater says:

      The closing of the Forth Road Bridge highlights acutely that we need a second road bridge.

      Who was it against all odds pushed through a new road bridge?

      Do you think the public have not put two and two together?

    89. gordoz says:

      Powerful stuff REV: Will appear nowhere on state broadcaster BBC/STV stations though (wrong message you see)


      Christ : That’s a powerful if somewhat disgusting photo of the FM over on Newsnets latest posting (via D Batmen).

      Surely all that missing are the sharpened knives ?

      (One side of me says – what on earth was she thinking ??)

    90. Clapper57 says:

      Deffo last serious post will write…..

      If SNP are not going to correct misinformation and just leave it hanging….then the scots who are less informed will believe that it is true.

      ffs Did nobody in SNP not think it pertinent to pick up on Tasmina not challenging this untruth and make others aware this old chestnut would be brought up again…and again…and again.

      Jeeso last week we had the ‘academic’ on QT making joke about it with Caroline Flint laughing ( to be fair she probably, like Emily last night, is oblivious to branch office business )…..did nobody in the SNP watch QT last week ?

      We accuse Labour of being slow on the ball….let’s stop the own goals guys….. I support independence and SNP….but we are in a war here and the yoons are relentless in their quest to win…SNP need to get with the program…WOS et al cannot fight their battles all the time.

      I , as another person on previous post stated, will write to my SNP MP requesting this non fact be put to bed as sick of snidey comments tainted with lies being left unchallenged and presented as a truth.

      Also suggest they could perhaps get SNP MP’s more so the newbies to read WOS with postings if they are so oblivious to what is really going on.

      Feel better now….cause really pig sick of this.Patience wafer thin…wafer piggin thin….get a grip ffs.


    91. Nana says:

      Posted links at approx 7.45am. Must be in moderation so if interested in reading best check back later.

    92. heedtracker says:

      And I wish it could be a referendum every dayeeeyay, nice display of barking mad yoons like our imperial master rory the tory hands across/off our Scotland region protestor, explaining to a Scot that we will lose a third of your country, Edinburgh, The Highlands, hundreds of years of history…

      Liggers’s hair choose here is golden autumn with a hint of cinnamon.

    93. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clapper57 says: 18 December, 2015 at 12:22 am:

      ” … UKIP needs to get honest….come on…come on.. you are the English “Independent” Party….man up….if they cannae get the real name of their party sorted out what right do they have attacking Scotland’s “Independent ” party !!.”

      Och! Dinna be silly, Clapper57. As far as the English are concerned The UK, Britain, Great Britain and England are all mutually synonymous – all just other names for England.

      To them it doesn’t matter that Britain contains three non-United Kingdom Crown Dependencies, (the two Bailiwicks of Jersey & Guernsey), plus the Isle of Man and, of course, the Republic of Ireland.

      The first three are parts of the monarch’s actual realm but are not governed by Her Majesty’s United Kingdom Government. For the simple reason that the United Kingdom is composed of only the Kingdom of England, (three countries), and the Kingdom of Scotland as the signatories of the 1706/7 Treaty of Union.

      Both Wales and Ireland had become parts of the Kingdom of England in 1284 and 1542 respectively. Thus they joined the United Kingdom in 1706/7 on England’s coat tails.

      Thus the 1800/1 Treaty of Union between the then UK and Northern Ireland was a fudge. How could Northern Ireland suddenly become a new Kingdom when it had already been part of the Kingdom of England between 1542 and 1706/7 and part of the bipartite United Kingdom from 1706/7 until 1800/1?

      This whole thing has been Westminster propaganda from forever. England has always claimed they owned Britain since the Germanic tribes were invited into South Britain after the Romans left. Hell! Even the Romans tried to take over Scotland and failed.

      Athelstan tried it too and failed. Every English King & Queen since then has tried and failed. Even King James I of England tried and failed and now we Scots are again about to assert our legally sovereign right of independence.

      After all the treaty of Union 1706/7 is legally a bipartite treaty between two equally sovereign Kingdoms and no matter how much Westminster protests that they are sovereign the legal facts remain that there are only two kingdoms signatures on the Treaty of Union 1706/7.

      Thus, like any other bipartite agreement, if one equal partner withdraws the union is over. Furthermore, there legally cannot remain a United Kingdom when one ot the two leaves.

      So there you have it – the South Britons have always regarded themselves as owners of all of the British Isles. Just listen to Cameron who always says he is the British Prime Minister or that he is sending in the British navy, army or air force but who only has authority over the United Kingdom part of Britain.

      To these people Britain is England and England is Britain. Furthermore to them the Irish, Welsh, Channel Islanders and Manx people are just inferior Englanders of a lower order who need the firm hand of the wonderfully generous True English to stop them from harming themselves.

    94. snode1965 says:

      Krackerman….Tam Dalziel can see the bridge from the window of his West Lothian castle….

    95. Grouse Beater says:

      As another person on previous post stated, I will write to my SNP MP requesting this non fact be put to bed as sick of snidey comments tainted with lies being left unchallenged and presented as a truth.

      I repeat: SNP should devise weekly press briefing, televised, with Q&A session, well prepared to refute lies and propaganda, also convened in emergency when major matters demand it.

    96. Arabs for Independence says:

      Snode1965 @ 11:02

      “Tam Dalziel can see the bridge from the window of his West Lothian castle”

      How did he not spot the crack then? A new west lothian question for Tam the Bam

    97. Anagach says:

      Jamie says:

      Krackerman and aganach- it has been stated in the media that this fault was known about a year ago.

      Except that it is false.

      The fault did not develop until few weeks ago.

      The absurd report in the Mail (and later the BBC) based upon an email advising a limitation on exceptional loads being somehow a warning of this fault is just false.

      The BBC have removed part of the article headline but also the email so that people can no longer see how much the BBC is making up.

    98. heedtracker says:

      Krackerman….Tam Dalziel can see the bridge from the window of his West Lothian castle….

      The House of Binns is Tam’s stately home, owned by us, via National Trust. You can visit for a tenner on Wed or Sat, 2-5 pm, wear your WoS badge, YES car stickers, Tam will love that.

      Red toryboys like him are just one of thousands of aristocrat tax dodgers that take advantage of ANOTHER tax ukok dodge for the richest, never pay inheritance tax again, keep your castles and stately homes like House of Binns, taxpayer pays for everything, maintenance, council taxes, energy bills.

      Red tories yoons like Tam there would probably say, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, SNP bad.

      No doubt socialist workers like Lord Flipper and Crash Gordon had plans to close tax evading loopholes like the above but were too busy ending the boom and bust economy

    99. John Young says:

      OT Just back from local Tesco’s (no choice) put half of the small pile of remaining Nationals in front of the Records. Bought their Scottish Branded Butter, only a few blocks left, English Branded Butter untouched pile. Little things I know but every small signs of change matters.

    100. Papadox says:

      Unionist BT types are terrified of loosing their “special” place in native society if The English Establishment abandon them. The exact situation that the Anglo Indians were in at Indians birth in 1947. Their masters didn’t want them the natives despised them for various reasons and they were being abandoned to their fate by their pal HMQ. The BT Anglo Jocks are ashamed to think they are like the common standard issue Scots and couldn’t survive without the “support” of their colonial masters, the English.

      How could they live with that disgrace? Yes money, accent and snobbery are the measure of a persons worth, sounds like the English establishment to me. Yep Londinium is doing very nicely thank you so we will need to squeeze the rest to protect London and the Establishment. Aye Better the GITHER right enough. Rule Britania.

    101. Joemcg says:

      Why are unionists so angry? Should be debated at Edinburgh Uni.!

    102. gordoz says:

      Totally agree with posts re a certain lack of professionalism about SNP appearences on media. Recent QT & TV events re Trump bad smell.

      Lack of prep is unforgivable. Surely you know your enemies, all of panel (+ 99% of media)? You should know whats coming up; as Trumps best bud (Morgan – SNP loather) is on the panel and they just love to demonise a certain Mr Salmond.

      Open goal to kick misinformation in to touch … we’re ready yes surely ? Apparently NO.

      Still no one nails misinformation slur ie – Jack McConnell / LABOUR appointed the TRUMP to role Nicola brought to timeous end.

      Its not good enough; not by a lonshot, when your enemy is everywhere.

      The SNP keeps repeating this mistake and its soul destroying for the footsoldiers to witness lots of great work on the streets ruined.

      Someone in charge of media at the SNP needs to get a grip of this at there is an aroma of establishment drift coming to the fore – complacency is the enemy of all Field Marshalls

    103. Thepnr says:

      Wonder if the Eton educated Sir Thomas Dalyell of the Binns, the 11th Baronet, a title inherited from his mother changed his name to Tam when he joined the Red Tory party?

      Probably, Labour supporters fell for it too. Wish we had more reality TV programs back then. “You’ve Been Had” might have been good.

    104. Jack Murphy says:

      John Young said at 11:31 am:-
      “OT Just back from local Tesco’s (no choice) put half of the small pile of remaining Nationals in front of the Records”

      LOL!—my Mum Tweeted me earlier this morning saying she’s done the same thing. 🙂

    105. Clapper57 says:

      Nana…looked at your link with Hannah’s tweet…yes it was a rabble as she states…but she WAS given an opportunity to respond…and if she knew McConnell was the one she should have said……it would have been akin to Scotland scoring a winning goal against the auld enemy moment if she had.

      She wisnae bad last night , she was quite articulate and confident when she spoke ,and the knives were out fir sure….uncluding smug Dimbledumb in presiding chair, but agree with other peeps posts…. we need to be prepared and up our game.

      Thanks for putting link on Nana……I dinnae want lassie to feel bad , my anger is more at lack of communication in SNP.

      Re your comments Grouse Beater….brilliant strategy….pity The National, at times, did not deem it relevant to headline in bold all of the untruths….like ….headline today could be ‘Jack McConnell made Trump Scottish Global Ambassador NOT Alex Salmond’.And all those who voted ‘No’ would see it when they bought their Loony Yoony rags.

      I need to get back to me mental style of postings…I’m nay so guid at being serious….vocabulary not extensive enough ya ken.

    106. Ruby says:

      Ronnie says:
      18 December, 2015 at 1:19 am
      I’ve just fired off a query to the SNP asking them to justify why they are either ordering our elected representatives to allow the Trump/Salmond/McConnell lie to go unchallenged

      Ruby replies

      It could be the SNP don’t want to appear as if all they say is “Labour Bad”

      The ‘SNP Bad’ thing is a complete turn off if the SNP started the ‘Labour Bad’ ‘Tories Bad’ then they might find themselves in the same position as Labour.

      Surely it’s the job of the presenters/journalists to challenge lies!

    107. Anagach says:

      John McTernnan on BBC Scotland “Jardine”, because, well because his name is John.

      Although there were discussing the staggering drop in popularity of the name John. Apparently extinction beckons.

    108. heedtracker says:

      Why are unionists so angry? Should be debated at Edinburgh Uni.!

      Because despite that the fact that whole toryboy UKOK media is SNP bad, all led primarily by the tory BBC freak show, YES voters wont shut up and go away.

      Last nights SNP bad show, hosted by Ligger Neil

      1 SNP bad highlights, oil’s gone, so shutup
      2 Oils gone so shut up and give thanks to your UKOKness
      3 Nic Sturgeon is the Liggers politician of 2015
      4 JC is here til 2020
      5 Their carol singers were lovely
      6 BBC says SNP bad

      YESers at work say oh Canada! Its like a giant Scotland, no cringers, no RFC, no rory the toryboys sneering and jeering, at their Scotland region democracy they’re slowly but surely losing red/blue tory control of.

    109. Grouse Beater says:

      Young: “Just back from local Tesco’s; put half of the pile of remaining Nationals in front of the Records”

      First, place the Daily Record behind BNP Monthly where it belongs, or The Spectator if BNP not there. Second, spread the National copies across two paper holders.

    110. Clapper57 says:

      Ruby Says:

      “Surely it’s the job of the presenters/journalists to challenge lies!”.

      If only…..if only Ruby.

    111. sensibledave says:

      Robert Peffers 10.55

      You wrote: “Och! Dinna be silly, Clapper57. As far as the English are concerned The UK, Britain, Great Britain and England are all mutually synonymous – all just other names for England.”

      You may know lots about lots of things Robert – but you have just proved you know nothing about being English (why would you?).

      We know the differences Robert, whether we like it or not, I live in England. I am English and proud. England is part of the UK and we are also British – just like the Scots. We know to cheer Chris Hoy when he is wearing the British jersey – but cheer for Jason Kenny on a different occasion. I know when I arrive at Heathrow that I have to show a UK Passport – just like you. Its really not hard Robert – or is it just another example of your lazy, casual stereotyping and demeaning of a whole race just to get the crowd cheering you on?

    112. JLT says:

      …and yet …the Scottish Unionist parties will continue to finger point, gripe and wave sheets of paper in the air.

      I half expect that even when the new bridge is completed on time and within budget, that the Scottish Unionist parties will then quibble over how many vehicles will actually use the bridge (they will moan either way if it is too many …or too little), and most likely question what economical benefits of such a bridge has brought to either Mid-Lothian or Fife. I half expect one of them at somepoint, to have a good old girn about the location that was chosen for the new bridge itself.

      They will always find something to moan about!

    113. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave, Merry red/blue toryboy Xmas sensible! Great to see you back on WoS, saying anything at all to stomp out Scottish democracy.

    114. mike cassidy says:

      Hannah Bardell’s tweet that she knew it was McConnell but couldn’t get a word in is no excuse.

      In fact it backs up the assertion here that the SNP members are not preparing themselves well

      She must have known she would be presented with an open goal. Put it in the back of the fecking net next time!

    115. Helena Brown says:

      Robert Peffers, our local troll know nothing about being Scots so why should we so well informed about being English. As we know we are informed night after night on the radio and Television that what you described is how it is viewed.
      England, the Queen of England, the British MI6 or as it was first described the English Officers who oversaw what happened to Shaker Amer. We did say that should we win the Referendum they would go on being the UK, using the Union Flag, all which describes England so much to them.
      Take no notice of him and his ramblings he really has nothing to add to the conversation here.

    116. Grouse Beater says:

      Dippy Dav – stirring up racial intolerance whilst in the act of supposedly decrying it:

      I live in England. I am English and proud. England is part of the UK

    117. Nana says:


      I did not watch QT so I don’t know how Hannah fared. I honestly don’t know how I would get on in such a hostile environment. Lights, camera,action and unionists braying at me awaiting their chance to put a separatist in her place.

      However at the first available opportunity I would have stated something like ” by the way your assertion regarding Mr Salmond being the one who made Trump an ambassador is untrue. That big mistake is down to the labour party and Jack McConnell”

      I am in agreement with those who say the snp need to be better prepared, I think we could all have guessed what would come up in any interview lately.

    118. Petra says:

      @ Clapper57 at 11:58am

      Spot on Clapper. An intelligent approach to the use of the front page of the National, to combat propaganda, is imperative taking into account that many people just scan the front pages of newspapers on stands.

    119. sensibledave says:

      Yo Ho Ho Heedy, Merry Christmas to you too!

      Ive been watching Wings – but there hasn’t been issues that required my input. A lot of internal politics stuff and loads of stuff about a crack in a bridge – to which I had nothing, of note,to add.

      Robert goes off on one every now and again – so I need to “hold the mirror up for him” when he strayed towards, how do I put this, – I’ll go with casual, racial stereotyping, seeing as it is Christmas.

      Did you watch QT and This Week last night? I thought Hannah Bardell didn’t do herself any favours whereas John Nicolson was excellent.

    120. Breeks says:

      Apart from trying to smear Alex Salmond, set that to one side just a moment, then why does it actually matter who appointed Trump as a global Scot? It isn’t news, it isn’t explanation, its barely relevant to anything, it’s just smear, and a smear that lacks substance or truth.
      Maybe we can deflect the smear onto Jack McConnell and criticise his judgement and thus vindicate Mr Salmond, but can’t we aim a little higher and If we want to put anyone’s activities under the spotlight, shouldn’t it be Mr Trump?

      Of course, thats not what Unionist TV is interested in….

      Jimmy Saville was stripped of his honorary degree once exposed a pervert paedophile, but I don’t hear cries to discredit the Governors who gave it to him. They weren’t in the SNP of course…

    121. arthur thomson says:

      Who would have imagined, predicted, anticipated that a fibdem would come clean about the FRB? Of course, there may still be an ulterior motive but it just shows that, hard as we try, we can never know what is just around the corner. That is a very good reason for our leaders being circumspect and avoiding the temptation to walk onto the sucker punch.

      I note that the Rev is always very, very careful not to overstretch when he punches. He seems, to me, to always keep his balance when he sticks one on the opposition and that is smart. We don’t have to follow the same rules because it is our role to be passionate and bare our arses at the opposition. But it wouldn’t serve us well if our leadership behaved as only we can.

      I can understand the general feeling of frustration that SNP reps are not slapping down the obvious. It would appear that there is a lack of effective support for SNP reps and that needs to be remedied.

      However, we have to look at the wider picture. For example, during the referendum it became apparent that women were put off by the aggressive attitudes of male politicians. The media and unionist politicians learned nothing and do themselves a disservice when they aggressively talk over and brow beat SNP reps – particularly female reps.

      Let’s not allow our frustration to cloud our judgement.

      Why is it so vitally important to clarify who it was who engaged Trump? Who knew that Trump would expose himself as a total half-wit who apparently has a widespread appeal in the US? What ordinary normal person actually cares? As soon as his true nature was exposed the FM gave him his marching orders. Job done. Never mind the laughing hyenas on QT and in the media who think it is a great opportunity to poke fun – everyone knows that they run scared of Alex Salmond.

      If and when it suits him Alex will burst their pathetic bubble – but I suspect that he has his own reasons for letting the myth continue.

    122. sensibledave says:

      Grouse Beater 12:29 pm

      You wrote: “Dippy Dav (sic) – stirring up racial intolerance whilst in the act of supposedly decrying it:”

      Haha Grousey! Good try! Being proud of your country isn’t stirring up racial tolerance – and you know it!

      Are you not proud to be Scottish (always assuming you are Scottish)?

    123. Grouse Beater says:

      Dippy Dave thrusts his hands down the front of his pants:
      “so I need to “hold the mirror up for him” when he strayed towards”

      What an arrogant, patronising little turd. A BNP Gold card is on its way to him for surpassing a thousand tosspot posts.

    124. Stuart says:

      So a ‘Convenor’ trumps the Engineers, only in Wings world!

      Curious how ‘Wings’ chose not to reply to this…

      “Wings Over Scotland wrote an FAQ on the Forth Road Bridge. Some readers might’ve expected to learn of the bridge’s history, design and construction. Others might’ve expected to find out why the bridge is currently closed. Both sets of readers would’ve been deeply disappointed.

      What purports to be an FAQ is actually not an FAQ at all: it’s an article, structured as a not-quite-chronological numbered list, filled with partisan lies and nonsense. Here are some of my favourite lies from the piece, hand-picked for your reading pleasure!”

      Oh dear oh dear, what can ‘TartanJack be referring to an ‘Alert reader’ might ask?


      Still never mind ‘Alert readers’!

      Perish the thought that the ‘Reverend’ would be telling any lies…

      I mean ordained men of the cloth would never do that, unless of course you ask the ‘Reverend’ about the date of his ‘ordination'(Allegedly)?

      Lets see if ‘Wingsy’ can answer this…

      Was it a) the ‘Early 1990’s?

      b) 2000


      c) 2002

      Perhaps an ‘Alert reader’ can tell us, as it seems the Reverend Wings’ cannot…

      I mean perish the thought that he is a charlatan, or as ‘TartanJack’ says, that he is telling lies. (Allegedly)

    125. gordoz says:

      O/T Rev : You got a view on the worth of this media event ?

    126. Luigi says:

      arthur thomson says:

      18 December, 2015 at 12:40 pm

      RE: the Salmond-Trump myth. Aye, Arthur, I also have been wondering if a clever trap is being set here. It just seems so unlikely that two clever SNP MPs would make the same obvious mistake in the space of a few days. Surely they are not that hopeless/dazzled in front of the cameras. Is Nicola and/or Alex about to deliver a knockout punch anytime soon?

      Well, we will find out in due course. If Tasmina and Hanna were just careless, then it’s 100 lines each:

      Alex Salmond did not endorse Donald Trump as an ambassador for Scotland..

      If, however, Tasmina and Hanna were instructed not to respond to this (for whatever reason), then I offer my humble apology to both ladies.

    127. sensibledave says:

      Grouse Beater 12:42 pm

      “What an arrogant, patronising little turd. A BNP Gold card is on its way to him for surpassing a thousand tosspot posts.”

      I object on so many levels Grousey.

      Firstly,”Little”? – I am 6′ 3″ and 16 Stone!

      Patronising – hmmm, maybe sometimes – towards people who know jack – but spread hate.

      “BNP Gold Card”??? There you go Again Grousey! Do you know the nationality of my wife Grousey? Do you know what colour my children are Grousey? Do you know all religious holidays I celebrate with my family Grousey? Do you know what passports my children have Grousey?

      NO you don’t – so keep your prejudice and your pathetic stereotyping to yourself Grousey. You are a disgrace.

    128. Macart says:

      Well who knew?

      Pretty much anyone reading the posts on this site for the past couple of weeks.

      Timelines, sources, links, cannae beat it. 🙂

    129. heedtracker says:

      Did you watch QT and This Week last night? I thought Hannah Bardell didn’t do herself any favours whereas John Nicolson was excellent.

      No I didnt unfortunately but its great to see you back with your festive slams and the “back in your box Scotland region” stuff.

      Scotland’s trying to break out of toryboy control sensible but BBC Scotland for example are really pooping very hard on anything and everything Holyrood. Everything is shite up here and SNP bad, if youre BBC vote SLab Scotland, all Scottish press hacks. Trouble is, more and more Scots don’t believe them anymore.

      If you like sensibledave, look at it from the point of view of Scots voters. SNP Holyrood wants to stay in office, so they HAVe to work for what’s best for Scotland. SLabour just cant let that happen, its UKOK or nothing for that shower. Their BBC etc say its all complete and utter shite, its UKOK or nothing in their Scotland region. They lie and misinform, they smear, they bait and cover up… but underlying all their attack propaganda, Scots voters are watching Scotland no longer ruled by yoons and a ferocious toryboy media and we seem to like it.

      Next May’s Holyrood election’s going to be very challenging for BBC attack propagandists in their Scotland region sensibledave. Hope you’ll be here to set us all UKOK straight though:D

    130. Tackety Beets says:

      Apologies to those who have read it.
      This is my thoughts last night on prev Post.
      I’m re-posting as its on topic ish now on here.

      I do have sympathy for out SNP politicians as they do get bombarded, but they should be ready to kick back. I certainly do in my day job.

      Quick draw McGraw !

      12.50 Last night ;

      “I know most are on the next Wings post but its too early to go OT over there.

      Please do not respond , I merely wish to plant the seed/concepts

      Q 1 ) is it not time the SNP Admin got a fact sheet they e-mail out to all MPs , MSPs and spokes persons .
      This fact sheet can be done in a simple word Doc and as new items become current topic ( e.g.Donald Trump / Joke McConnell item etc) is added to the top and is always picked up by everyone when e-mailed out. As new current items are added the older ones slip down the line , but by this time it would be lodged in memory by all to remember for ever.

      Just a thought and it is very controversial ( illegal)

      Q 2 ) Euro Ref , looking @ recent Polls Scotland is under threat of being taken out of Europe against our will. I will add that it could equally be said that Scotland could keep England in Europe against its will. By this if 2m Scottish IN Votes could be enough to swing it, depending on how the numbers stack up on the day.

      So we all in the Wings family would love the Euro vote to instigate IndyRef2

      My thought is the only way this can happen is if we,as in ALL Wingers, “Collectively” vote the correct way ?

      What is the correct way ? The Exact opposite of Englandshire.
      I suggest we consider asking our RWM like the good Rev to consider all polls on the eve of the Euro Ref and make a suggestion which way we ALL vote. “

    131. Macnakamura says:

      He may be wanting to defect and then to join SNP.
      And this is just bridge building.

      I’ll get ma coat.

    132. Bob Mack says:

      @Grouse Beater,

      Dave reminds me of the Colonial Governor type reminding the natives in India of how proud they should be to be part of Britain, rather than be Indian.

    133. Petra says:

      @ Twathater @ 3:57am

      IN / OUT of the EU: This issue has been discussed before. The general consensus was that we do everything in our power to get rid of Westminster, by voting NO (to leaving) which will hopefully lead to us getting our Independence.

      This is also one issue that may actually influence some of the Referendum 74% NO voting rUK relocators to voting yes for Independence next time round.

      When we ultimately get our Independent we can re-assess the situation. Request our own IN / OUT EU Referendum if need be.

      If we vote YES we’ll be ‘stuck’ with Westminster no matter which way the vote goes due to the sheer numbers in England. Worse case scenario is that we pull out of the EU and lose some of EU protection against Westminster. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

    134. scotspine says:


      You come on here spouting forth, draw flack and then complain.

      No-one cares what nationality or skin colour your kids are. You brought that up.

      Take the hint, Fuck Off!

    135. Chic McGregor says:

      “Maybe we can deflect the smear onto Jack McConnell and criticise his judgement and thus vindicate Mr Salmond, but can’t we aim a little higher and If we want to put anyone’s activities under the spotlight, shouldn’t it be Mr Trump?”

      It isn’t a case of smearing Jack McConnell it is much more about clearing Alex Salmond.

      This could be done very simply by saying:
      “Actually it was not Alex Salmond who asked Donald Trump to become an ambassador for Globalscot but Jack McConnell in 2006. Not, that Jack McConnell could have predicted the future ramblings of Donald Trump at that time.

      That would clear AS and at the same time underline just how petty SLAB have been on this issue.

      BTW this is not the first instance of AS being falsely accused of something and being unchallenged by other members of the SNP who were present.

      At some point, it is fair to question when such errors are repeated.

    136. Dr Jim says:

      This just in: Prestwick Airport set to become !!MASSIVE!!
      post devolution of APD

      Inward investment coming

      Planned connectivity to everywhere

      SNP on the verge of collapse? Aye right

    137. kininvie says:

      Hannah Bardell is my MP. I campaigned for her, and will do so again. She is a first class MP, and I know exactly how hard she works.

      I think many on this thread forget just how comparatively inexperienced in dealing with the media our MPs are. The only way to become comfortable is by given exposure – and the SNP are deliberately giving a variety of MPs the chance to undergo the experience. Sure, Hannah missed a chance – but you forget she nailed the oil price White Paper slur and did well on other issues. I think those who are flinging brickbats around out of frustration need to ask themselves how well they would have done.

      Dealing well with the media is a delicate balance between coming across as a thoughtful, independently-minded human being, or spouting the party line in an incoherent jumble (anyone come to mind?). It takes, time, and practice. Even then, anyone can have a bad day on the telly. After all, the blessed Alex made a cock-up of that first indyref debate.

      So maybe cut a bit of slack?

    138. Graham MacLure says:

      “Joemcg says:
      18 December, 2015 at 11:44 am

      Why are unionists so angry? Should be debated at Edinburgh Uni.!”

      I often ask myself the same question so in an attempt to understand their anger I started to read their postings and letters and where better to start than the “Aberdeen ‘Pouters Journal”?
      Much the same as sensible Dave here in that their writings reveal their feared consequences of a better Scotland, where enlightened people make up their own minds about what is right for the people and thereby Scotland.
      A successful social democracy as a neighbor state is the stuff of UKOKist nightmares. The thought of not having an elite lording it over them or not having a media telling what to think by the means of omissions and half truths is beyond the pale to them.
      That is why they attack anything that may be to Scotland’s benefit through legislation at the highest levels and the media at any level it can sink to and the anger comes from that policie’s failure.
      Isn’t strange to fear a better future?

    139. gordoz says:

      Muppets are back folks !

      Let them play amongst themselves; yoonies soon get bored.

    140. Chic McGregor says:

      @Tackety Beets
      “So we all in the Wings family would love the Euro vote to instigate IndyRef2”

      Not me, I’m dreading that possiblity. If it happens we will almost certainly lose, even if support for indy was 60%+ at the time.

    141. Lollysmum says:

      Update time

      Orkney 4 crowdfunder now stands at £196,283-thank you all for your donations especially as this coincides with the most expensive time of year for us all.

      Every £ helps to keep it moving upwards so please bear in mind as we can’t let Orkney 4 down.

    142. Petra says:

      Big thanks to Tony Martin. Seemingly a decent and honest man. Take note Labours.

    143. Ruby says:

      The Trump/Salmond thing on QT wasn’t much of an issue and it passed very quickly.
      The comment was probably best ignored. I do hope posters on this forum are not following in the footsteps of Unionists by making an mountain out of a molehill.

      The two things that stood out for me on QT was all the Saltires in the background and Jacob Rees Mogg’s accent!

      The man might have had some interesting things to say but I just couldn’t listen to his awful accent!

    144. snode1965 says:

      Sensibledave.On media performances, what about Anna Soubry on QT a couple of weeks ago? She made a total arse of herself, on the back of a long media career.

    145. sensibledave says:

      scotspine 1:08 pm

      You wrote: “No-one cares what nationality or skin colour your kids are. You brought that up. Take the hint, Fuck Off!

      Grouse Beater: “A BNP Gold card is on its way to him …..”

      … if you choose to excuse Grouse Beater’s comment – and prefer to direct your ire at me – then shame on you too.

      What is wrong with people today? When did casual racial stereotyping become OK?

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      You do a good job, here and elsewhere. A rock to hold on to in a sea of turbulence. Ah well, back to my punt, bailing water as always.

      It occurs to me that the Ref was a great time, focus, energy, objective, united cause. Now is the between-times, where we mostly have to sit and watch, as the YES climbs up agonisingly slowly, giving a little nudge whenever we can, but perhaps needing to be cautious as well. Empathy, being on the same wavelength as the undecided who are many. Perhaps not too aggressive.

      It’s very irritating, restless, unrewarding, energy with nowhere to go. Yes, there’s the Holyrood elections but I think many of us aren’t particularly politically party minded, it’s Independence we want, the sooner the better. The SNP are the bus we’ll get there on, all aboard!

      Aye, well, the restive season is on us and that’s always a restless time as well, trying to get things done so we (those who celebrate it), can sit back for a bit or fall flat on our faces in the gutter, whichever is our preference.


    147. Ruby says:

      What I want to know really really want to know is why Unionist parties decided trams were more important than a new Forth Road Bridge

      Then there is the issue of the Parliament building!

      It seems to me the role of the Unionist parties in Scotland is to hold Scotland back!

    148. Ruby says:

      gordoz says:
      18 December, 2015 at 1:09 pm
      Muppets are back folks !

      Let them play amongst themselves; yoonies soon get bored.

      Ruby replies

      That’s good advice!

      If posters want to play with the Muppets they should try The Scotsman and not turn Wings into another version of The Scotsman.

    149. The Isolator says:

      Crikey here goes again

      Did Alex Salmond say he had sought legal advice regarding entry to Europe?

      Did Nicola Sturgeon say she wanted a Tory government?

      Did Alex Salmond say the referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity?

      The fact is it doesn’t matter a flying flick what our democratically elected representatives say it will be shouted down as an untruth.They are in full attack mode and baiting the SNP.(Not the independence movement).

      Kelly’s little stint during this weeks debate illustrates their game plan.

      If the SNP show any chink at all in their strategy they will be all over them.
      The calls by Labour for an inquiry into the FRB is set up to explode in their face.

      FFS there are things in the Tram enquiry which will surely end Labours hope for political salvation once and for all.

      Remember the break in to the enquiry HQ?

      They know they are Donald Ducked(including blue and yellow Tories).

      Absolutely incredible stuff allegedly.

      As I say hold your nerve Edinburgh Calling?

    150. sensibledave says:

      snode1965 1:17 pm

      You wrote: “what about Anna Soubry on QT a couple of weeks ago? She made a total arse of herself, on the back of a long media career.”

      … I agree, not one of my favourite politicians. The earnest expression, the voice, etc – not good. My comment about Ms Bardell wasn’t a “political” one – any more than my view about Ms Soubry above is.

      It is interesting to watch and admire politicians of all shades if they are “good”. Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are excellent – formidable, knowledgeable, articulate and quick on their feet – unlike Ms Bardell. On “This Week” John Nicolson was very good – how could one not like him? Urbane, charming and yet precise, accurate, interesting, knowledgeable and challenging.

    151. yesindyref2 says:

      @me “Aye, well, the restive season is on us”

      That should of course have been Festive season. On the other hand …

    152. starlaw says:

      Watched first twenty minutes of QT last night and was very pleased with my MP Hannah Bardell’s performance. Did notice P. Morgan refer to England several times instead of UK as did Dumblerdore. Felt this could have been pounced on,however no real harm done.

    153. Ruby says:

      “Along the right lines
      Leader. Evening News [Edinburgh (UK)] 20 July 1998: 10.

      But when the Evening News campaigned successfully to stop a second Forth Road Bridge being built, we argued that more and more traffic coming into the Capital would ultimately hit the city’s economy even more than the possible deterrent effect of charging motorists.”

      This is an interesting story of how The Scotsman campaigned successfully to stop a 2nd forth road bridge being built in 1998!

    154. Petra says:

      Oops ‘Labours’! …. re. last post.

      Lollysmum I reckon that as soon as the final bill is in individuals like myself will contribute again to ensure that the Orkney 4 aren’t left out of pocket. Just saying in case they are reading.

      @ Kinivie at 1:08pm ….

      Kinivie most posters on here want Independence and back our SNP MSPs 100%. Are extremely proud of them in fact. Let’s not forget either that up until recently no one wanted to talk to them at all and they were rarely, if ever, invited onto any shows / panels. They are also aware of the fact that they will be outnumbered often three / four to one by some extremely hostile people and that one slip can cost them dearly. Must be nerve racking for them. I’m sure that they’ll get their act together soon and become more prepared / astute at combating whatever is fired at them. Better still learn to slip in key facts, such as England subsidises Scotland, at every opportunity.

      One thing for sure is that they all come across as being extremely articulate, intelligent and decent and never ever embarrass us unlike some (many) Labour politicians. So yes I agree with you. Time to give them some slack.

    155. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Heads up. Populus poll on the way.

      They asked the Independence question.

    156. Luigi says:

      sensibledave says:

      18 December, 2015 at 1:33 pm

      John Nicolson was very good – how could one not like him? Urbane, charming and yet precise, accurate, interesting, knowledgeable and challenging.

      John Nicolson dropped a real clanger on QT a wee while back. Can’t remember the exact details, but he completely misread a question from a member of the audience.

      The bottom line is they are all human, but they are paid very well to represent us, so we criticise them when they fall short (which is not that often). It is essential to keep them sharp. If you want to see what can happen if you refuse to criticise your own side and treat them with kid gloves all the time, look no further than the effect of corporate media protection on red tory politicians. Lack of exercise can be fatal. 🙂

    157. snode1965 says:

      Sensibledave.I’m sure you are aware that John Nicolson also has a long media career behind him. As others have said, media exposure for our “green” MP’s can only improve with experience.

    158. Breeks says:

      @Gordoz 12.56

      Ha ha ha. Got me thinking about Wolfie, Citizen Smith, putting laxative in the punch…

      But is poor form in the real world. We have so much work still to do…

      I’ve commented before about SNP and the alternative media, quoting the Native American expression about the good wolf and the bad wolf, whereby the wolf which grows stronger is whichever one you feed.

    159. Famous15 says:

      A sensble British Government determined to hold onto its valuable assets would set about creating a subtle propaganda machine. Every aspect of Scottish life would be examined for “tells” ,flaws and fissures. In every place of community discourse they would aggravate these fissures and the goal would be best served by the colonists attacking themselves.

      Shoehorn one into an opinion he does not hold and attack him as if he held such a view. For example ,pretend he has said something racist and go berserk in condemnation.etc etc.

      Sensible maybe for them but for us we see a filthy snake. Goodday sir!

    160. heedtracker says:

      On “This Week” John Nicolson was very good – how could one not like him? Urbane, charming and yet precise, accurate, interesting, knowledgeable and challenging.

      So why not learn from him sensibledave?


    161. dakk says:

      Sensibledave. 1.20

      ,’When did casual racial stereotyping become OK ?’

      BritNats/BNP come in black,brown,white and everything in between.

      British Nationalism is a frame of mind Dave.

      ‘I have to show a UK passport’

      I can see you are still pining for that exotic navy blue UK passport instead of the ugly burgundy European Union passport issued in UK.I kind of miss it myself a bit.

      Good to see you back.:)

    162. sensibledave says:

      snode1965 1:52 pm

      “I’m sure you are aware that John Nicolson also has a long media career behind him.”

      … I didn’t know – but he was certainly a “cut above”. Tommy Sheppard is very impressive too – but even he was left looking silly on Newsnight after the fox hunting issue at Westminster.

      Sometimes, politicians are sent on TV just to “take one for the team” and just try and make the best of a bad situation – and sometimes, politicians of all flavours, find themselves in places they would prefer not to be.

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @Roland Smith says: 18 December, 2015 at 12:39 am:

      ” … I dont know who in the SNP is responsible for briefing MPs appearing in the media, but frankly they are not very good at their job. And if they dont have anyone doing that function thats incompetence.”

      Get a grip, the lot o ye. Think before you put fingers to keyboard. Of course the BBC presenters are briefed because the BBC sets the programme agenda to suit the BBC and the presenter but they do not needs tell the invited interviewees what the agenda is, except perhaps, in the broadest possible terms.

      Thus the SNP guests, party lawyers and advisors don’t know what will be asked. However, “you can bet your sweet bibby”, (anyone else remember the Rowen & Martin Laugh-in), that the Unionist Party guests and random Unionist shills, are at least tipped off and probably get coached as well as fully briefed.

    164. sensibledave says:

      dakk 2:05 pm
      Sensibledave. 1.20

      You Wrote: “BritNats/BNP come in black,brown,white and everything in between.

      …. good try at a defence Dakk – But we know what the BNP is – and they are nothing to do with discussions here thank you. To suggest someone is a BNP supporter based upon no knowledge or evidence is simply unacceptable.

      You wrote “British Nationalism is a frame of mind Dave”.

      … you might be right – but it doesn’t describe me

      “I can see you are still pining for that exotic navy blue UK passport instead of the ugly burgundy European Union passport issued in UK.I kind of miss it myself a bit.”

      … no, you are doing the stereotyping thing again. I couldn’t care less.

      “Good to see you back.:)”

      … Ive not been anywhere – just waited for something relevant to comment upon. As an example, the problems with the bridge. The bridge is broke. It needs fixing. Fix it. I find the whole “who’s to blame” thing boring and irrelevant – it just needs fixing – so fix it! S**t happens, move on.

      BTW, it looks like Grouse Beater #2 is on duty today. Grouse Beater #1 had a brain as I recall.

    165. heedtracker says:

      BTW, it looks like Grouse Beater #2 is on duty today. Grouse Beater #1 had a brain as I recall.

      Hey, write your own slams sensible.

    166. Ruby says:

      Oh dear it looks as if poster do want to turn Wings into another version of The Scotsman!

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      What a bunch of bloody Jeremiahs you lot are becoming!

      Note: Jeremiah was a major prophet of Judah from the Old Testament, (from around 526 to 587 bc. His prophesies of doom have given his name to a person who habitually prophesies doom or denounces contemporary society.

      In the first place what makes you imagine the Unionist propaganda machine, that is the BBC, is briefing the SNP guests as to what is going to be asked?

      Secondly, do you imagine that a Unionist shill at the BBC is NOT going to fully brief a Unionist guest when they both have the common motive of putting the Independence supporting guests down?

      Put yourself in the position of being a BBC programme producer. Your bosses, (and their bosses), and yourself are all extreme Unionists.

      Would you properly brief an independence supporting guest you want to see out of political office and would you not tip off, or even fully brief, the Unionist supporting guests you and your bosses want to help get elected?

      If they have the brass neck to attempt to fool their customers, viewers and listeners, do you imagine they care what their perceived enemies think?

      Here, though, is the facts of the matter. No one, except utterly biased already, unionistas, believes anything they have been broadcasting since the referendum.

      If you believe otherwise, then please explain why every opinion poll now predicts a landslide SNP victory is in the offing?

      Not just a sneaked narrow win but, in some cases, a complete whitewash. Truth is there is at present an inexorable move of voters towards the SNP and independence.

    168. Thepnr says:

      Looks like I’ve just dropped into the sensibledave show.

      Firstly,”Little”? – I am 6? 3? and 16 Stone!

      Big man with a small brain, 5′ 7″ and 9 stone, would knock you out any day of the week. Fancy your chances 🙂


      Of course Hannah Bardell is a good MP and worthy of our support, the point is we have a media that is as one spreading lies and propaganda daily. We can only fight those lies with the truth.

      To do that, our elected MP’s must know the truth in the first place. Education; Education; Education.

      If you are going to appear on the telly in front of MILLIONS, better be prepared. Who’s preparing our spokesmen and women that are giving those interviews?

      You do know that that interviewers are well prepped?

      Maybe a job for you? I know you’d be good 🙂

    169. scotspine says:

      Sensibledave, where did I racially stereotype you, your wife, or your kids?

      I said no-one was interested. Big difference.

    170. Fred says:

      @ Thepnr, anent Tam the Bam of the Binns, he’s no more a Dalyell than I am. His real name is Loch. Descended from Loch of Drylaw they changed the name to inherit The Binns. Loch was the duke of Sutherland’s chamberlain at the time of the infamous Sutherland clearances and Patrick Sellar the factor worked under Loch.

    171. sensibledave says:

      scotspine 3:17 pm

      “Sensibledave, where did I racially stereotype you, your wife, or your kids?”

      You didnt – Grouse Beater did!

    172. Nana says:

      Committee enquiry into the bridge closure ordered for early next year

    173. Thepnr says:


      Sure your right, I didn’t bother reading past the first paragraph in his Wiki article.

      Still, is he Thomas to his Eton friends and Tam to his Labour voters?

    174. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers

      When politicians are invited onto a political show they are either there to talk on a specific subject so they know what they are likely to be asked. However, even if they are there to talk about a specific subject eg Tasmina on This Week talking about banning Mr Trump they should anticipate some of the questions around that subject that they might be asked such as:: Why does the SNP want to ban him when it was Mr Salmond who invited him to Scotland to build a golf course. She had no answer.

      A few days later she in invited onto CH4 news to be interviewed on the same topic – banning Mr Trump. Again she is asked about the SNP inviting Mr Trump and the Global Scot issue. Again she has no answer.

      If that had been you would you not have gone away and found out the answers ready for the next time? Not rocket science.

      On programmes such as QT there will be a range of questions from the audience but anyone with half a brain can anticipate what the subjects are likely to be. They just have to look at the headlines over the previous few days.

      Trump, the petition, the banning and Mr Salmond’s comments have been all over the Press so it was not rocket science to anticipate that something about that would come up, if not from the audience then from Mr Dimbelby.

      But again someone was caught flat-footed. The SNP MPs have research staff so how difficult would it be for MPs to ask them to do a quick bit of research on Trump and Scotland?

      The interviewers may not be as well versed in political matters in Scotland as you think. They know Mr Salmond and that he is a contentious personality so any chance they can they will work him into an interview somewhere.

    175. Fred says:

      @ Thepnr, last I heard he was a puir sowle, something like Jamie Balfour’s uncle Ebeneezer!

    176. Will Podmore says:

      Cal writes that “it’s got to be EUOK.”
      But the EU is not OK for any of us.
      It enforces austerity. It decides our levels of taxation and spending, witness the EU Council Recommendation 2015/1029: “The United Kingdom should reach a headline deficit of 4.1% of GDP in 2015-2016 and 2.7% of GDP in 2016-2017 … The Council sets the deadline of 15 October 2015 for the United Kingdom to (i) take effective action; and (ii) … to report in detail the consolidation strategy that is envisaged to achieve the targets.”
      It is trying to force TTIP on us: Ms Sturgeon said that TTIP was ‘a reminder of the massive opportunities that European Union membership brings’. (Like the one million lost jobs TTIP would cost, as the European Commission, very discreetly, admitted?)
      In 1995 Ms Sturgeon proclaimed, “Europe is our flagship policy.” (Odd, some might have thought Scottish independence was!)
      The longer we stay in the EU, the worse for all of us. It seems that the SNP loves the EU more than it loves Scotland.

    177. Will Podmore says:

      Petra wrote, “Worse case scenario is that we pull out of the EU and lose some of EU protection against Westminster.”
      What EU protection against Westminster? There is no EU protection against Westminster.
      The only guarantee of good social laws and employment laws is strong trade union organisation. Employment lawyer John Hendy has dealt with this question in his paper ‘The terrible tale of the EU and trade union rights’, available at

    178. Thepnr says:


      We have a saying for that “Two faced bastards”.


    179. Jim McIntosh says:

      Re the Trump Scottish ambassador furore, I’m not sure the SNP stance of ignoring it isn’t the right thing to do. While they’re sniggering about this, they’re not looking elsewhere. Figures for QT is around 2.5M per week, so a Scottish audience of around 200K, and I’d lay money on it that at least half that Scottish audience last night knew the truth of it anyway. That lot peddling lies does not help their case.

      As far as the English audience is concerned it will just reinforce their opinion that us useless Jocks can’t get anything right. They might even cut off their nose to spite their face by using the EU vote as a referendum to finally get rid of the subsidy junky haggis eaters. 🙂 🙂

    180. Thepnr says:

      @Will Podmore

      I for one have absolutely nothing against you, in fact I’m well aware that you have been posting here for years and I applaud you for your perseverance.

      What I don’t get is that you somehow see Independence for Scotland dragging our country away from the goals you seek.

      Baby steps, because what you want will forever prove impossible under a Unionist government. I too seek a different type of government, Yes, a more social government.

      Vote UKOK? Where will that ever get you and your dreams?

    181. yesindyref2 says:

      @Will Podmore
      “The only guarantee of good social laws and employment laws is strong trade union organisation.”

      I’d say partly to that. The other sides are strong co-operation between such trade unions and Government, and with employers. Personally I think good employers should be active in seeking advice from the Unions, running things past them voluntarily, rather than being forced to as in the FRB one-day strike by 50 employees over holiday pay, that got quickly resolved. Perhaps employers could pay their union dues as well, for that service.

      The question is then – why were the employees forced to strike to get results? The answer is in what I say, that triangle of Union, employer and Government.

    182. yesindyref2 says:

      Apologies, FRC not FRB for the one-day strike.

    183. thomaspotter2014 says:

      The Angry Unionists would need to get over themselves first.

      That ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.

      May 2016-let’s kick them where it really hurts,at Holyrood elections

      Then finish the job with cooncils clearout 2017.

      Their whinging will stop then.

      Set Scotland free of these shysters.

    184. gus1940 says:

      Brillo had John Nicholson MP on both last night’s This Week and today’s Daily Politics and he performed admirably.

      He didn’t take any nonsense from Brillo’s or any of the other commentators.

      Brillo was remarkably restrained compared to his usual ill-mannered ranting when in the presence of anybody form The SNP. Perhaps he was wary of the fact that Nicholson has a professional background in broadcasting.

    185. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      As far as I’m aware – because my workmates and I used the TUPE regulations to DEFEAT a proposed transfer of us from a university to the NHS – these regulations were an EU initiative, each EU member state applying their own versions.

      We slowly discovered that our rights (terms & conditions and so on) were rather strongly protected by the TUPE regulations, which neither our employer nor the prospective employer, fully understood.

      Each time the prospective employer told us that we would have to conform to their protocols, we said, “Oh no we won’t.”

      Eventually, after around 15 months, the prospective employer decided that the transfer held no advantage for them so they pulled out. Thus, we are still employed by the university.

      “The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (SI 2006/246) known colloquially as TUPE and pronounced tu-pee, are the United Kingdom’s implementation of the European Union Business Transfers Directive.
      It is an important part of UK labour law, protecting employees whose business is being transferred to another business. The 2006 regulations replace the old 1981 regulations (SI 1981/1794) which implemented the original Directive.”

    186. Jamie says:

      @Anagach – if I remember correctly it was a herald article I read the day or a day or two after the bridge was closed and it said something like there had been identification of a fault on the bridge approximately a year ago but it was decided that it was not urgent. The article suggested this was liked to the current problem. Now if you are saying that is not true, that is fair enough but where are you getting that information from?

      The article implied that it was the privatised group that made this decision, now I may not recall the exact date this decision was made, I will look for that now, but nevertheless it serves as an example of privatisation failing again, if it is true.

      I think the SNP following the SLAB route of privatising parts of services is not a good road to be going down. It deserves some though especially if the bridge turns out to be another example of privatisation going wrong.

    187. JLT says:

      Guys, guys, guys (and the ladies!)

      Just rambled through the last 30 odd posts and it’s just one giant slanging match. Come on …we all know what Sensible Dave and a couple of the others are like!

      If I didn’t know any better and came here for the first time, I would just shake my head and be offski. The comments here are beginning to resemble something like the comments page in The Herald or The Scotsman.

      Ignore these folk who are just here to cause a slanging match. Comment on the article itself or on any other political business that affects Scotland, but don’t get wound up and look to bicker with those who are spoiling for an argument!!!

      Remember …we are here to enlighten or pick up new bits of information that helps those interested in seeking a better future for Scotland. I’ve seen nothing in the last three dozen posts that benefits anyone! Avoid slanging matches with those who are not remotely interested in independence for Scotland.

      Information and enlightenment are the key; not finger pointing. Ignore the trolls.

    188. Jamie says:

      @Anagach – I have just been looking for that article, I read it in print but it seems that it is also no longer online. So you could be right. To be clear though, I am pretty sure of the main parties, the SNP would manage things best, but I think privatising bridge maintainence is a bad idea. It is the sort of thing SLAB were always doing and I sometimes get the feeling that the SNP are trying to be NEW LABOUR.

      Maybe it is just me but I was hoping for something better, but maybe NEW LABOUR is what most people want.

      Even if AMEY have been in charge since June, it is probably only a matter of time before something like this happens again, even with Forth Bridge 2.

    189. JLT says:

      Also …just one other wee note. Like Kininvie, I’m also from the Livingston / West Lothian district and therefore, also know Hannah Bardell. Like Kininvie, I have also campaigned for her.

      Hannah is a fine and knowledgable lady whom we should be proud off, and I would also like to add that she does know what she is talking about. Remember, this was her first foray into a major political program, and I thought she did alright. Like all the other new SNP MP’s, she’s maybe still in the process of finding her feet by being under constant scrutiny. In addition, she was up against people who are used to being in front of TV cameras (Piers Morgan) as well as other more seasoned politicians who have been in the media ring just that wee bit more.

      As Kininvie said, she shot down immediately Reckless’s disparaging remark about Scotland being an economic basket case, and she got her point across when they discussed the EU and Syria.

      For a first outing, she did very well. I believe she will take a lot of belief in her conduct last night, and I have no doubt she will watch the program again just for reflection.

      As said, a good young SNP politician. Being a guest panellist on a heavy-weight political program such as Question Time, I believe she did alright in my book!

    190. dakk says:

      Sensibledave 2.27

      You said ‘You are doing the stereotyping thing again’

      You are the one guilty of stereotyping.You seem to think having a black or brown wife would preclude you from being a British Nationalist or even in the BNP.

      I repeat. British Nationalists and or BNP members are not exclusively white.

      You said ‘You might be right’ but it doesn’t describe me’

      You don’t think for one minute I expect the vast majority of BritNats to admit what they are.In fact most don’t even have the self awareness to know what they are.

    191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Re Piers Morgan.

      Have a look at the last quote on the right-hand side (in red), from August 2014…

    192. Awizgonny says:

      @JLT – don’t be so hard on the poor wee Trolls. They’ve had to get oot from under the bridge because of the repairs. Bless ’em x

    193. Clapper57 says:

      Re Hannah on QT….Ironic this posting has a heading ‘End of the Matter’…..when we all can’t seem to put an ‘end to this matter’…myself included , I hasten to add.

      I see and respect all points of view from peeps posts on this and everyone is entitled to their opinions, even if it varies from others.

      Not a witch hunt , merely an observation borne through frustration. No offence intended to her as MP for her constituency.

      BTW I wish hadn’t piggin said anything now in my initial post on this… Doh !….consider me in rusty chains awaiting punishment.

      Hey everyone…. on a happier note…I hope…… Seasons Greetings to you all, and yes, I include those who post on here with different political views from the Wingers.

    194. Cadogan Enright says:


      Dear Mr Eadie

      Your enquiry seems to be addressing every issue save one. Why did the second bridge take so long to be commissioned when the best professional advice in the 1990’s was that the bridge needed to be replaced by 2000 at the latest.

      I cannot believe that you will let the enquiry proceed without addressing this item

      Cllr Cadogan Enright

      Meanwhile the UKOK Britfest was in full swing on BBC over the FIRST English Cosmanaught this week. But huge embarrasment mid-week when it was discovered or remembered that ITV actually had the first WOMAN British Cosmanaught 24 years ago – Helen Sharman.

      No apologies or explanations, but the BBC initially switched to FIRST MAN Cosmanaught. By today on the equally hysterical Sky the State and Corporate Media had switched to FIRST OFFICIAL (really- onscreen using subtitles-I’m not making this up) Cosmanaught. (Can’t resist using the correct term, it pisses off BBC types who call him an astronaught and can’t seem to remember it’s the Russians wot dun it).

      All reminiscent of the BBC’s regular description of the racist and sectarian horror Nancy Shaw as the first British woman MP (they call her Lad Astor in thier eulogies and usually forget she was U.S. born).

      Inconveniently for the BBC complaints department and thousands of Irish callers over the years to the complaints department, the real first woman MP was Constance Gore-Booth. A Irish gun-toting Repulican suffergette who won her seat in Holloway prison after shooting several British soldiers in the 1916 rising who never had a racist or sectarian bone in her body – unlike Nancy (details normally not mentioned in any details by BBC).

      It also seems to irk BBC-types that Nancy was only a Lady, while Constance was a Countess – albeit guilty of the sort of trade union organising activities loathed by Nancy.

      Anyway,me now have an ‘official’ British cosmanaught to join the first ‘official’ woman MP.


    195. Thepnr says:

      @Cadogan Enright

      Nothing would make me happier than to see Gideon Osborne blast off on a one way ticket into space.

      Voyager III.

      Daily reports, I’m lost, HELP.

    196. tamson says:

      Regarding the Trump/McConnell/Salmond stuff…

      I’ve always thought the simple truth is, both First Ministers saw a soft touch. We know Donald’s a bit dim – there was that thing about how if he’d simply left his inheritance in a trust fund, he’d be twice as rich now as he actually is. Both of them saw an opportunity to score an investment if they pandered a bit to Trump’s Scotophilia.

      As such, the portrayal of McConnell’s history with Trump (he was routinely pictured hanging around outside Trump Towers in a kilt, IIRC), and the negative picture painted of Salmond’s has a more insidious character. It’s not about getting at Salmond, it’s about crushing the notion that a First Minister – of whatever party colour – should ever do a good job on the international stage.

      Too wee, you see.

    197. Muscleguy says:

      Yesterday morning I drove from Edinburgh to the edge of Pitenweem in the East Neuk of Fife, and back, guided by my passenger with Google Maps and it’s knowledge of traffic conditions. Very different going and coming routes from about Kirkaldy.

      I then drove home to Dundee with my wife. Tomorrow we have to drive to Edinburgh Airport and back to Dundee to pick up our youngest and her partner arriving from NZ.

      I am beginning not to like the A977 or the M9. The less said about the roundabout on the south of the Clacks bridge the better.

    198. The Man in the Jar says:

      I drove from near Kirkcaldy back to Bothwell last night around 10:30pm all diversions cleared and Kincardine bridge open both ways. I believe that the restrictions are lifted for the weekend!

    199. Andrew McLean says:

      For wings only,
      I go up the motorway past Stirling and Dunblane, when I get to Glenegels I take the Glen Devon road to the switchback, then sharp left to join the motorway towards Dunfermline, this adds about 20 minutes to my journey but it’s a quiet road and I meet little traffic.
      Keep it to yourself if on Monday its mobbed I will be raging

    200. yesindyref2 says:

      I think you’re right. I think for the London set, they don’t care if it’s the SNP, Labour or Conservative, if they can make us think our First Ministers of whatever political flavour, and our MSPs and whole Parliament are a “pretendy” Parliament, useless, faulty, making mistakes all the time, then the appetite for Independence or even more powers will diminish. We’ll be back in the box, screwed.

      “Best leave it to the professionals at Westminster, scrap Holyrood, Scots are useless, we can’t govern ourselves.”

      I think there’s some of that getting into the Scottish media, as I posted before. We need to remember that there isn’t really any such thing as “Scottish media”, not in the printed or generally broadcast version, it’s all controlled from London.

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, the logical follow-on from what I just posted, is that rather than saying “it’s all Labour’s fault”, we – and the SNP politicans – are better saying “it’s nobody’s fault, the right decision was made at the time, when circumstances changed, a different decision was made. That’s effective Government such as you only see in Scotland [GIRFUY].”.

    202. Will Podmore says:

      Thepnr wrote, “what you want will forever prove impossible under a Unionist government. I too seek a different type of government, Yes, a more social government.”
      Yes, agreed, of course I, like most British people, oppose the present government, just as most of us always opposed the Thatcher government, and her offspring governments of Blair and Brown.
      But opposing Westminster governments doesn’t mean having to oppose the Union; supporting the Union does not mean supporting any Westminster governments.
      And supporting the SNP doesn’t mean supporting the EU. According to a 2014 poll a third of Scots want to leave the EU.

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