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Wings Over Scotland


An auld familiar song

Posted on February 20, 2017 by

The Scottish media has today leapt all over the front-page lead story from yesterday’s Sunday Times, in which “top economist” Douglas McWilliams of right-wing thinktank the Centre for Economics and Business Research made an apocalyptic prediction of a huge deficit turning an independent Scotland into “a Third World country”.

The Express’ customarily restrained coverage is pretty typical.

mcwilliams1

We wondered if Mr McWilliams used to have a more optimistic view.

As it turned out, not so much.

mcwilliams

It would seem that he’s been saying the exact same thing, using the same hyperbolic language, regularly for at least the last 16 years.

mcw2001

mcwhoots

(The good news is that his estimate of Scotland’s return to the Stone Age appears to have been moved back again – in 2011 he was predicting it’d happen by 2030, but now it seems it won’t be until 2047. We just gained 17 years of prosperity! Yay!)

The BBC’s Douglas Fraser was pretty scathing about McWilliams’ credentials the last time he trotted out his doom-and-gloom forecasts:

frasermcw

We can’t think what would make McWilliams’ judgement so questionable.

mcwilliamsrecord

mcwcrack2

mcwcrack3

And the really odd thing about that 2011 Telegraph piece predicting catastrophic doom for Scotland within less than two decades? It doesn’t mention independence once.

Always look for the context, readers.

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One_Scot

I don’t KNOW if it is JUST me or does ANYONE else find the FAKE NEWS Express headlines JUST a bit IRRITATING.

starlaw

Where are we heading if we remain in this union. Perhaps some one can tell me facts, not pie in the sky

Malky

“…and himself a Scot.” Well, I say define “Scot”.

Ken500

The Press is doomed. In five years there won’t be any left. Why do they bother printing this nonsense? Leading to the demise of their own industry.

louis.b.argyll

Disgusting scaremongering from the predictable Tory press.

louis.b.argyll

Newspaper headlines are a smokescreen, deliberately negative.

They should be turned over, like porn/lads mags, to lessen their shock value to innocent passers-by.

jockmcx

chunky mark today…spot on.

link to youtube.com

Ken500

Right wing supporting Gov cuts. Supports UK income tax cuts. Lack of funding for essential services. Vicky Pryce? The penalties points evaded. Lining their pockets on people’s misery. Right wing Gov lobbyists for the nearest bidder.

Sharny Dubs

Oh! and having the largest oilfields in Europe is such a drain on our resources …. wait!!!…..

TheItalianJob

Utter drivel from two newspapers I would never buy. In fact haven’t bought a regular newspaper for nigh on 10 years.

It’s going to be a challenge for the next Yes campaign to counter such drivel as we get on a daily and weekly basis from the Unionist press.

We have to be strong and resilient in the next year or so and keep counteracting thes false claims.

Stu’s Wings is a good reference point as we all know.

louis.b.argyll

All Trump/May need now, to complete the right wing global coup, is a sprinkling of MacCarthyism, to cut these meddling leftist truth seekers out of the media.. And remove all foreigners from the world.

Clootie

…yawn!

Too small, too poor and too stupid…..we heard you the first 100 times.

Now apply common sense to this debate (I won’t use Norway). Look at Iceland, Sweded, Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, etc, etc who DO NOT have the resources of Scotland in Oil reserves/Fish stock/ Renewable energy and so on, then try to stop yourself from bursting out laughing at such an idiotic report(propaganda piece).

I loved the add on “….and himself a Scot”. Yes a Scot like Gove, Fox, Marr, Neil, Forsyth, Mundell etc
A successful Scotland with a fair society on their doorstep could undermine the Rich get Richer trickle down theory and Austerity is good for the Nation approach.

Quite a surprise though for a Right Wing Think Tank to come to this finding and it obviously has some merit when it is given such a high profile in so many Unionist media outlets… 🙂

heedtracker

“Himself a Scot,” is funny. I am the biggest arse in town, but I am myself a Scot. UK hackdom is a sight to behold.

The Grauniad Scotland, goes massive this morn with, a letter from someone who liked their thing on Joan Eardly.

Thank you for the generous appreciation of Joan Eardley’s work by Frances Spalding (Review, 11 February). I was captivated by Eardley’s portraits and landscapes when I was a teenager in the mid-1950s.

Macart

Yes. Yes it is a familiar song right enough.

They’ve looked out the window recently, right?

They are aware of the state of the UK economy, its politics, debt and devalued currency? Not to mention its performance on the world markets, brexit and the fiscal reset, austerity, the ever widening rich – poor gap? That sort of thing.

The Scottish government is responsible for exactly NONE of that. They don’t have any say in any way of the economic policy of the UK.

So if Scotland is a basket case, then I’d be looking to sack the catastrophically inept boneheads who were responsible for that economic performance. There may also be some harsh language involved for the miscreants during the dismissal process (cough).

Peter McCulloch

If these unionists really believe the rubbish they are spouting about the Scottish economy.

Then by very their own admission,they are admitting the union has not been good for Scotland, and that they and Westminster have turned Scotland into economic basket case.

David Smith

So, it looks like we’re back to; “YOU’RE NOTHING WITHOUT ME. NOTHING!”…

Wake me up when they’ve finished.

heedtracker

Graun explaining why London probably wont be a third world city,

link to archive.is

Transport
More than half UK investment in transport is in London, says study
Thinktank IPPR North warns gulf in investment between regions is at cost of greater northern productivity

Scot Finlayson

is that the same Douglas McWilliams from the Centre for Economics and Business Research that assaulted a sex worker for refusing to smoke crack cocaine with him?

link to tinyurl.com

Tam Jardine

Douglas McWilliams @DMcWilliams_UK

thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotla…. A new take on Edinburgh ‘the Athens of the North’!
12.34 am – 19 Feb 2017
Douglas McWilliams@DMcWilliams_UK

Edinburgh the Athens of the North?twitter.com/sundaytimessco…
12:00 am – 20 Feb 2017

It seems McWilliams analysis is very fluid indeed. In the space of 24 hours a question mark is added. Such is the nature of life. One does have to question if economic forecasting has value if it changes by the hour.

Sinky

Yoon called Allan Sutherland (?) who sounds just Scott Arthur turning GMS Call Kaye debate on news sources into rant against SNP including nonsence that Question Time had only one pro unionpanellist

heedtracker

By UK, that Graun thing ofcourse means England,

Nazia Parveen North of England correspondent
Monday 20 February 2017 00.01 GMT
More than half of the UK’s total spending on transport networks is invested in London, research has found, prompting warnings of “chronic underinvestment” in northern infrastructure projects.

The gulf in transport infrastructure investment between London and the rest of England is set to get worse, according to the analysis by the thinktank IPPR North, with £1,943 being spent per person in London on current or planned projects compared with just £427 in the north.”

Its not an intentional error either, future third world Scotland region of greater England.

louis.b.argyll

North Sea in crisis?

That’ll be due to UK management of OIL AND FISHING.

About half of total oil reserves remain. And using old technology at current prices it’s less profitable, but profit isn’t where the gov takes it’s cut.

Proud Cybernat

So, according to this quackademic, we were heading for economic disaster [stop sniggering at the back] long before independence was even the remotest of remote possibilities i.e. we were heading for disaster as part of the Union. Now the quackademic tells us we’re heading for disaster if we’re independent.

Must be the curse of the Scots, eh? Damned if you’e in, damned if you’re out.

I’ll take my chances – Nicola, push the button.

BJ

Mundell says he’s a Scot.

Means nothing really but if it’s true he’s definitely gone rogue and taking money under false pretences as the SoS for Scotland.

David

Gonna get a lot of stick from a lot of the clueless regulars here but although im totally for independence its only dreamy eyed people unburdened with the weight of any facts that would think that if Scotland became independent there wouldnt be a need for some change to policies when it comes to welfare and other public spending.

Yeah I know, pointing out that money cant be grown on tree’s and that having generations of people living on benefit isnt a good thing makes me a fascist and a fake indy supporter etc etc.

Just thought id mention it though.

Clootie

Public spending threat to the economy of an Independent Scotland.

Within the UK Union the state pension, as a percentage of income on retirement, is just ahead of Latvia and below Lithuania- why risk such rewards being “lost”

They really do think we are stupid!

Robert Dark

FFS

dandy dons 1903

Doesnt this yoon bampot have a history of drug abuse? Certainly this guys impaired when it comes to figures and telling the truth.

galamcennalath

It seems ‘think tanks’ very rarely do much thinking!

Most appear to be propaganda outlets set up and paid for by a particular individual or group. That piper then calls the tune.

The media use think tanks and their ‘experts’ as if they were politically independent sources. And it get’s worse when the media entity itself is just a propaganda tool and they do a double act!

The REAL problem is that many ordinary folks can’t see through the subterfuge and listen to the supposed ‘wise man’ when, truth is, he is just some arsehole.

Andy Anderson

Heard it all before. We have the info to fight this on the door step which was not always the case in 2014.
To me the increase in extreme lies has gone up a lot in the last two months much of it from politicians on TV. What an embarrassment they are to themselves. Their families must be proud of them.
Keep a calm head, curse quietly and move on.

Jamur

Yawn…..
Tell us when Nicola. We are ready.

Auld Rock

Ellesmere port no more, Luton no more, BMW no more, Toyata no more, Nissan no more, Rolls Royce no more…………and on, and on. No friends I think that it will be England that will be 3rd world country, their hospitals and prisons are halfway there.

Auld Rock

defo

“Nothing’s changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
…Only slightly, only slightly less than I used to, my love”

Especially if you pay me to write guff so as I can feed my habit.

Lots of peeps seem to be addicted to lying.

Yerkitbreeks

Down here in the Borders we have sheep, collie dogs and landowners. The landowners call the shots, the dogs do the directing and the sheep obey. Proxies for Scottish society.

Sadly these articles are the collies.

Chitterinlicht

We are doomed i say, doomed. 🙂

Training Day

We would do well not to lightly dismiss the opinion of this crackhead.

Ken500

Is this a joke? Speak about fake News. Respected? CEBR more like a bunch of criiminals. No doubt funded by public money. Respected? Sharing drugs, beating and abusing people. Criminal activities. For goodness sake.

Proud Cybernat

Take Back Control…

link to imgur.com

BBC Scotland Tells Lies

Tokyo Kay and her phone-in this morning discussing “Fake News” and who do you trust, goes on to tell us that the Herald Poll last week in which she says 36% don’t trust BBC Scotland, she then tells listeners that it obviously must mean 64% TRUST BBC Scotland.

That is of course complete Fake News.

From the Herald: “The BBC tends to report news that is biased against the cause for Scottish independence”

“Overall, some 36% agreed with the statement, compared with just 23% who disagreed (41% said they neither agreed, nor disagreed).”

Only 23% trust the BBC NOT 64% as Adams told the world this morning.

Kaye Adams tells lies, all the time!!!

mogabee

David

“tree’s” what?

Yours clueless reader

mogabee

So a guy with a drug and sex habit is being punted to make a statement about Scotland which is still under Westminsters financial control.

Who is protecting this numpty?

Laugh? Seriously, is this all they can get? 🙂 🙂 🙂

yesindyref2

I posted something about the rubbish “CEBR” spout on the previous thread, here it is:

From the CEBR lying propaganda report Sep 8th 2014, 10 days before the referendum:

link to cebr.com

“First, Scotland’s share of UK public spending now appears to have been 9.6% in 2012/13 according to new data released by the ONS at the end of July in Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses, whereas its share of the UK’s on-shore economy was only 8.0%. Assuming taxes roughly proportional to shares of GVA, this would imply a non oil deficit of 1.6% of UK GVA, which may not seem much but amounts to 20.6% of Scottish on shore GVA.”

From GERS 2012/13 on the other hand we have this:

link to gov.scot

“In 2012-13, total Scottish non-North Sea public sector revenue was estimated at £47.6 billion, (8.2% of total UK non-North Sea revenue).
… This is equivalent to 9.3% of total UK public sector expenditure.
… In 2012-13, Scotland’s estimated net fiscal balance was a deficit of £17.6 billion (14.0% of GDP) when excluding North Sea revenue”

So their “appears to have been 9.6%” was actually much less at 9.3%, and their “only 8.0%” was actually more at 8.2% (our population was around 8.4% of the UK’s), resulting in their estimate (albeit GVA not GDP) of “20.6% ” was in reality 14.0%.

I hereby cry it the Centre for Exaggeration and Bullshit Reports.

HandandShrimp

Right wing Tory predicts doom, destruction and disaster if right wing Tory policies are not implemented – Shock Horror!

I think he needs to lay off the crack pipe.

Can you imagine the write up the Express would give a pro independence economist if they had this chap’s back story?

However, the Express was doing Fake News long before Trump discovered it was an issue.

yesindyref2

Thanks for the article, I didn’t realise the CEBR had such a long and unillustrious record.

Bob MACK

We do indeed have the potential to be a third rate nation. If we remain in the Union that is. I would go even further and state it is a certainty.

Groundhog day headlines.

CapnAndy.

Well, there is an element of truth in that we may well become a third world country by 2030.
But. Only if we stay in the Union. Westminster is broke, skint, on it’s uppers. The national debt is over a trillion, but what assets does UK have left, absolutely bugger all. The Union cannot now even go to the pawn shop as they’ve bugger all left to pawn, nothing left to sell. May is now at the stage of going cap in hand to the likes of Trump and Erdogan for business.
It doesn’t look good for the UK and now is the right time to take to the lifeboats and leave the sinking ship.

Dr Jim

The power to run Scotlands economy has never been in Scotland
it’s been in the UK who have borrowed lots and lots of money put themselves in lots and lots of debt then assigned that debt to the devolved Nations as a percentage of population whether any money was spent there or not and then says Scotland has debt which they the UK created on Scotlands behalf…

So Scotland says we’ll do it ourself thanks you lot are pretty hopeless at this and the UK says No No No you’re in debt so you can’t afford to and without us (the UK) you’ll be worse, say the UK economists who got us in debt by borrowing the money we didn’t ask for and don’t even know what it was spent on

When the UK decides to spend billions on “Infrastructure” projects in England which they say will benefit Scotland and then charge Scotland for a percentage of that, they don’t ask us they tell us and even if we don’t like it it’s fingers in ears and La La La time

I’ve paid for Nuclear bombs in my back garden that the UK says benefit me, nobody asked me and when I complained they said sit down and shut up you horrible little Jock nobody the UKs in charge

Translated that means England is in charge of my money my life my house and my back garden and I don’t get a say, and yet…An Englishmans house is his castle.. and a Scotsmans house is an Englishmans castle too

Anyone who thinks Scotland should’nt look after it’s own wages and house and garden is either brain damaged or are Bastirt thieves

The brain damaged folk are forgiven, the rest, not so much!
and I mean that in a bad way!

Of course we know they’re lying and they know we know they’re lying, so how many people they fooled last time are going to be fooled again, and how many Bastirts remain loyal to their English overlords like little vampire familiars one day hoping to be a vampire too

Socrates MacSporran

yesindyref2

I hope you will accept this small note of censure in the trying-to-be-helpful spirit in which I post it, but:

As a callow young journalist, I was always taught, when using an acronym for the first time, always write its title out in full, so the layman reader knows what you are speaking about.

You provide some excellent insights when you post on here, but, I haven’t a clue what such acronyms as GVA or ONS mean. GDP I think is Gross Domestic Production, I ought to know what GERS means, but, at least I understand what it is.

A wee-bit of explanation would help calrify your terrific input on here.

Tam the Bam.

@David 9.55am

Troll found….these people seem oblivious to the fact that they ‘out’ themselves by always inserting the prefix…’although I’m totally in favour of independence’.Aye right and I’m Napoleon.

Scott

We have had this all before about Scotland my question to anyone is how would EWNR look it’s all about England and they would lose out big time as they would not be at the top table and maybe their economy would suffer.
Lets have some neutral Economic person do a study on how the rest would look like without Scotland

Mike

Can you imagine how the UK media would portray an economic advisor to Nicola Sturgeon who had been caught smoking crack and beating up prostitutes?
Can you imagine how they would treat any forecasts he presented that showed an Indy Scotland flourishing and surpassing itself in relative terms to remaining in the Union?
Can you imagine them not linking his drug addiction and known political affiliations and desires?
And yet here we are with the media completely ignoring both his self destructive nature and his clear blue stated belief in the Union and absolute opposition to Scottish Independence to present this creature as not only credible but untainted impartial and prominent.
This level of blanket State media corruption can ONLY be found in despotic States.

heedtracker

This isn’t funny any more. Daily Heil,

By EMILY DAVIES and SAM MATTHEW FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 13:11, 19 January 2015 | UPDATED: 17:29, 19 January 2015

This is the bruised face of a prostitute who claims that she was assaulted by a leading economist after the pair smoked crack together.

Professor Douglas McWilliams, executive chairman of influential City think-tank the Centre for Economic and Business Research, allegedly attacked Beverly Shearon at her flat in St Albans, Hertfordshire.

Ms Shearon reportedly called police after she was left with a black eye and an injury to her hand, claiming McWilliams had ‘flipped out’ when a neighbour arrived at the one-bedroom flat.
In the first image of the 47-year-old’s injuries dark bruising to her right eye is clearly visible.

Black Joan

We need to declare a new “Think Tank” through which the Rev’s superbly efficient and unequalled research can be issued to the MSM.

We need a good name for it, and a “Board” of impeccable repute (no crack addicts). Some recent NO to YES converts should be included.

Nah, the MSM will cry, can’t use that because the source is in favour of Scottish Independence, and we’re only interested in impartial, independent sources which are, er, hostile to independence.

Seriously — surely Wings IS a “much respected Think Tank”. The Rev’s research is impeccable and fully referenced and his predictions have an excellent success rate.

The quality of, and respect for, the WoS Think Tank’s work is demonstrated by enormous readership numbers and crowd-funding success, but the MSM scream Vile Cybernat and choose instead to bow down in respect before some arsehole and any old crack addict with a lamentable prediction record and 800 followers on Twitter.

Bob MACK

Can anybody advise me of the last Chancellor in Westminster who in spite of all the think tanks and economic advisors input, did not make a complete arse of the country’s finances. None of them, not one ,met their much vaunted targets.
Labour left notes to the effect the till was empty and Osborne never met any of his targets in spite of mountains of advisors.

Meanwhile Mr Swinney was doing his job and more. Mr McKay seems just as efficient.

The whole thing is a joke.

Swiss Perspective

Well, if Scotland continues to believe this kind of drivel from a crack-smoking junkie, then maybe it really is too stupid. That and having the likes of Dugdale as the erstwhile leader of the opposition.
Thanks for the excellent background research!

Chick McGregor

Perhaps the crack expert might turn his expertise on an appraisal of England’s ‘Golden Egg’, as it was referred to the other day on R4, namely London’s Financial Sector.

Indeed, that R4 programme might be an excellent place to start since it seems at least micro-cracks (blame it on the BREXIT) are already visible even to the London-centric ostritches.

Fred

Scotland has vast potential, as recognised by the Gupta family buying the Lochaber Smelter & planning a factory alongside for alloy-wheel production plus a Green-Steel plant also for oil-rig reclamation. It’s just that these arseholes live in a Union bubble!

Andy Anderson

Have a look at this. It is about the EU view on the current tactics by Westminster to divide and rule prior to post A50 talks starting. It was in the Guardian but my take is from MSN.
link to msn.com

Black Joan

The Rev advises readers always to “look for the context”, and the same applies to the cavalier use of academic titles.

McWilliams is described in some reports as “Professor” but this relates not to a Chair at a University but to a position extended to him between 2012 and 2014 by a City of London institution called Gresham College.

The WoS Highly Respected Think Tank already has a Reverend as its Principal. The Advisory Board (as soon as it is constituted) should immediately consider establishing a lecture series and those invited to deliver lectures should henceforth be known as Professors (and in some cases Reverend Professors).

Golfnut

Not so ‘ top economist ‘ then, just so I’m clear on this,a crack head advises a coke head on the economy, the policy meetings must have been a hoot. Did they wear ladies underwear? silly question I know.

Breeks

David @ 9:55

I’m clueless David. See I thought when the Tories privatised BT, British Gas, British Airways, British Aerospace, British Leyland, British Rail, British Steel, British Coal, shipbuilding, water supply in England, the Power Companies, Airports, Prisons, Post Office, …and all the rest of UK assets which we the people owned, I thought that was because the Country couldn’t afford to keep subsidising all these inefficient, loss making industries which were such a burden upon the country.

So the country has now shed itself of this alleged burden, sold off these assets which belonged to you and me, sold off all the Council Houses, thus saving a bundle and collecting some pretty hefty windfalls…. and yet somehow the Country is not better off, but deeper in debt than its entire history.

Simple question… Where has all the money gone? Hands up, I’m clueless about that. We are now a “nation” of home owners, who now throw hundreds of pounds every week which once upon a time lubricated local commerce, into the coffers of an absentee mortgage company or corporate supermarket which was so criminally inept it needs bailed out by the tax payer…err… me??? Or needs tax credits to pay its staff a minimum wage.

I am left confused how Scotland can have 96% of the UK’s oil, and yet see no benefit from it. Norway has Statoil. Scotland has Feckoil. I am confused why Scotland is at the cutting edge of Renewables Technologies on the doorstep of Europe which needs ever more energy, yet the UK government handicaps Scottish renewables yet finds funding for Nuclear and Fracking because George Osborne had a pal in Fracking. I am confused why exports of Scotch Whisky count as English exports because they leave the U.K. from English terminals.

I am confused, and I might add deeply mistrustful of all the subterfuge, misrepresentation and distortion of the truth we suffer by our “wonderful” BBC. Funny how they never privatised that eh? But why, in a Union of equal nations, is it necessary to spike and manipulate my intake of Scottish news? Is the truth so very damning? Well if the truth is the McCrone Report, then obviously yes it is.

So in this contrived dogs breakfast of sophistry, I break it down into basics. We have a population of around 5.3 million people; we have world reknowned food and drink products, we have beautiful scenery, waters and reputation for tourism, we have recovering fish stocks, we have our oil industry, we have our renewables industry, we have a government committed to reindustialing our economy, and capacity for growth in our renewables industry which is potentially limitless and permanent. We are more than self sufficient in food production, water, and energy, and we have a diverse and solid footprint in a dynamic mix of economic activities across banking and financial services through to construction and farming. I reckon with bright industrious people, and friends in Europe, we’re going to be just fine. In fact, we’ll be a lot better than fine.

If anything, the scourge of this Union has seen Scotland grossly underdeveloped, and with more prudent management, (that needs only to be an improvement on Labour’s PFI disaster to register as a success), once established, the nation of Scotland can busy itself upgrading our infrastructure and ports to a more fitting capacity for a Nation as member of the EU.

If, as a committed nation of 5.3million people boasting such bountiful resources we cannot find a way to live within our means, then there really is no hope for us. Of course we can do it. However, there really is no hope for us if we stand back and let Westminster continue to plunder our Natural resources yet refuse to facilitate the appropriate support for our people and industries who are simply regarded as a meal ticket for those privileged to live in the South.

I am now deaf to the economic arguments that an Independent Scotland would fail simply because Westminster cannot make Scotland pay its way. Prior to the discovery of oil in the 70’s, Scotland did pay its way, and was routinely in surplus. Scotland’s handicap not any endemic weakness or strategic failure, it is the burden of decades of dysfunctional Westminster government, prejudice and profligacy.

Better the devil you know? Hmmm. Know what? I think I’ll take my chances with Scottish Sovereignty in Europe.

Yes, you are correct, that as a Nation with a growing population of elderly, there will be an increased burden upon workers to pay for the upkeep of services, but compare the way the UK has geared up for this eventuality with the way the Norwegians have.

Right now, the Norwegians make more money from the interest on their Oil fund than they make from the oil. The Norwegians didn’t, / don’t squander their natural resources for cheap gains and windfalls for investors, they take the long term view and prepare prudently for their collective future.

I am sick and tired being lectured on Scotland’s economic frailty by a profligate UK government awash with lucrative resources which it has for decades been pissing up against the wall trying to make the rich minority even richer and the privileged lives more privileged. Your industry doesn’t get better when you plunder its resources, your industry improves when you invest in it.

Our elderly have invested in Scotland their entire working lives. We aught to be thanking them, learning from them, not demeaning them as a nuisance and a burden we’d fare much better without.

Robert Graham

Eh seem to remember this line before , you would have thought after all this time and having all the media spouting the same outdated mantra the Independence movement would have long since buckled and dispersed , OOPS it hasn’t happend , OH dear thats unfortunate isnt it , not much Ammo left now eh Chaps , it is going to happen and the Union supporters know it thats why we are getting the latest wave of hysterical guff .

heedtracker

Chick McGregor, BBC r4 vote tory campers much too busy trying to get Eddie Hitler elected in Stoke, this week. They’ll be back to destroy Scottish democracy asap though,

BBC Politics

O’Flynn: I am ‘quietly confident in Stoke’
UKIP MEP Patrick O’Flynn said that his party’s campaign in the Stoke-on-Trent Central by-election is the “best organised campaign we’ve ever run” and the party is “in with a real chance” of winning the seat.

The MEP for the East of England told the Westminster Hour that if UKIP’s candidate and party leader Paul Nuttall did win the seat, then it would be a “massive step forward” having their leader in the House of Commons. However, if Mr Nuttall didn’t succeed, then Mr O’Flynn said he didn’t see it as “the game’s up”.

Release date: 20 February 2017
Duration:
47 seconds

shiregirl

Jeez. Would appear McWilliams is still on the ‘pipe coming out with guff like that (the Scotsman called him David. Can’t even get the name right…) What a charmer.

The Express is FULL of it’s USUAL HATRED, SPURIOUS headlines and VITRIOL towards Indy. And WHY do they put CAPITAL LETTERS in some of their headlines – just why?

K1

McWilliams just made enough for his next fix wi this repeated pile of rancid pish…when you note his connection and collaboration wi Osborne as his senior advisor it all falls into place…working together in perfect harmony.

Clootie

Who protects the London financial market?

I cannot think of “business” easier to move than the gambling estates of London. Most nations have the skill and UK tax has no distinct advantage. It must therefore be a hidden drive that draws money in and wards of competition…..what is hiding in the darkness….just a thought

The spin is they make money from money. The reality is they and the other major centres are the tip of the hose syphoning money from “the rest of humanity” – In many ways it is a money laundering process.

Is this the best civilisation can achieve after so long. The strong still prey on the weak?

call me dave

@Breeks

Excellent! Summed it all up there right enough. 🙂

Earlier on in the car on radio shortbread.

A caller says “But I get all my news from Kaye”

liz

@heedtracker – this has been talked about for years, the north,south divide especially in infrastructure.

The media divert attention by trying to get England to blame us because of the ‘Barnett formula’.

You get arrogant arses saying the UK couldn’t survive w/o the ‘powerhouse’of the City.
Where in fact the opposite is true,

The City is a voracious black hole, sucking in all the resources and in the meantime destroying the UK economy with their casino banking and offshore accountancy.

People in the UK need to waken up and see that all of us are being taken for mugs.

Black Joan

Breeks! That’s the troll telt. Thank you, thank you!

Iain Patterson

Third World indeed. We could end up being a small northern european country like….Denmark.
Anybody been to Copenhagen recently?
It’s So expensive.
The people are so poor they’re riding around the city on bikes.

Gail Hughes

He loses credibility once he gets on about Scotland’s “addiction to public spending”. Scotland’s public spending, as a proportion of GDP, is lower than the the average for the 28 EU countries (EU-28). That’s the average of the whole lot including the former Soviet Bloc countries of Eastern Europe and the supposed “failing economies” of Southern Europe. Compared to other Northern European economies we are well behind. Are the likes of Belgium, Finland, The Netherlands, Denmark and so on “Third World economies”?

It is not Scotland’s levels of public spending that are too high, it is the UK’s levels of public spending and revenue that are too low. Even the tories themselves are realising it now with statements about needing to improve funding on health and other matters. It is the low-tax, low-spend supply-side economics of this bloke and his think-tank that is taking the country to a failing economy. Independence is the means of escape.

heedtracker

From crack with prozzies, tae coke with them too. Banchory’s never seem the place since this tory nutcase. More tea vicar?

link to thesun.co.uk

JaceF

If Scotland’s economy is so bad we must be dragging the rest of the UK down, just imagine how much their economy will soar if we are gone.

Macart

I see from the Rev’s twitter feed that Mr Daisley is making our case for us again in the Daily Heil.

“You know, the one where the justices reminded her that Westminster makes the big people decisions and Holyrood is there to decide the Gaelic for ‘Glasgow Queen Street, Low Level’.”

Next time some, buttoned up the back better together type waxes lyrical on partneship, lead with us, family of nations, equality, respect agenda bull shittery. I am going to quote the SC, Lord Keen and Mr Daisley to their face.

Ask them to explain their definition of equal partners kinda thing.

Are we clear yet on how the union works, or do we require some more ritual abuse from these serial fibbers?

HandandShrimp

Macart

Like Fluffy, I generally find Daisley and Torrance more a help to the cause than a hindrance. The notion that we would want to shut them up is ridiculous. Mock them certainly but silence them? No, not all.

heedtracker

liz says:
20 February, 2017 at 11:52 am
@heedtracker – this has been talked about for years, the north,south divide especially in infrastructure.

It is one of the big mysteries why Scots have been happy to watch England pump hundreds of billions into their transport infrastructure since the 60’s and yet Scotland’s been completely left out.

Ofocurse its changing but its still one of UKOK life culture shocks, if you’re Scots, driving into England from Scotland, suddenly you’re in a different world of swish new dual carriages everywhere, hooking into giant motorways all zooming off to the greatest city in the New British Empire.

Even if the teamGB SLab freak show under crash Gordon had at least invested in the Glasgow/Edinburgh infrastructure network back in the 90’s, but not an fing chance from that crew. T’was then as it is now, London and England all the UKOK way, amen.

Muscleguy

If there is no work or your skill set is lacking and there is no funding for training courses worth shit are you still not entitled to enough support for a life even half worth living with a warm dry abode to safely live in?

The SNP will not be able to magic up enough jobs worth doing for everyone who is unemployed the day after Independence or set up and fund the kind of return to work support people need overnight.

Then there’s the sick and the disabled. They have been demonised and their support taken away in a stain against our claim to be a civilised nation.

Meanwhile the huge majority of welfare spending goes on pensions. Just as the Baby Boomers are retiring everyone else’s claim on the welfare purse must be scrutinised and penny pinched but their money cannot be touched. It’s no accident, the timing.

Carrots and help are much better than sticks in getting folk back to work.

And finally in a world which is automating and roboticising work faster and faster there will likely be fewer and fewer jobs out there other than robot technician and that one too is open to automation then what? If we paid everyone over 18 a citizen’s wage sufficient to keep life and limb together paid for from the profits of the companies who keep automating (tax their turnover not profit to capture it) solves the unemployment problem.

If you raise the income tax allowance to just over the citizen’s wage then there is an incentive to work, you keep the money (minus tax) and lose nothing. The employed also do not envy the lazy.

People can seek employment to say fund a holiday. So employers will have to work to persuade people with money and other perks and a good work environment to work for them and stay. Bosses’ power to threaten people with the dole if they are fired would lose its sting. Deliveroo would have to actually pay people properly with sick pay and pensions to get ANYONE to work for them. Mind you if Amazon’s drone deliveries and Uber’s driverless cars come along the gig economy will go too.

defo

shiregirl says:

“The Express is FULL of it’s USUAL HATRED, SPURIOUS headlines and VITRIOL towards Indy. And WHY do they put CAPITAL LETTERS in some of their headlines – just why?”

The target demographic are short sighted ? 🙂

David

As I said. This website has a decent proportional share of idiots.

I totally agree with Scotlands long term economic outlook. I agree that we have an abundance of resources. I agree that the current financial mess can be laid at the feet of Westminster.

But, isnt it funny that as soon as anyone gives a line that’s not totally ‘sun shining, welfare checks forever’ they are deemed some sort of troll?

A lot of you are the mirror image of die-hard unionists.

So for the morons and those who think with emotions (same thing):

No matter what happens when Scotland gets its independence its highly likely to cause uncertainty with business. How long that uncertainty lasts is down to our government and how things are going south of the border. Do we believe that Scotland would do well in the short term with a tax policy that WASNT kind to business?

There are many possible scenarios but an immediate spike in Scotlands outlook and fiscal situation is not very likely. At all. It will take time and probably a more immediate, though temporary, reversal in the current situation.

This is a realistic view.

Some of you regulars might just have to get a job. Imagine that? :D. Ok that WAS a trollish comment. But you f**kwits deserve it for your reactionary s**te.

There are other views in the Scottish independence debate other than that of the economically illiterate socialists.

galamcennalath

Breaks says

Scotland’s handicap not any endemic weakness or strategic failure, it is the burden of decades of dysfunctional Westminster government

I look around and see the wealth of resources, both natural and human, and wonder why Scotland isn’t currently Europe’s boomtown.

I can also only draw one conclusion … “decades of dysfunctional Westminster government”.

What other possible reason can there be? Any suggestions, trolls?

Those bloody right wing think tanks like to spout about how crap Scotland would be in the future using the crap performance of the present system as their model!

Dave McEwan Hill

The “City of London” economic powerhouse is a notion not a physical reality. It can move anywhere else very easily.
And is already doing so.

We should not get too heavily involved in arguing facts and figures on this latest scare attempt.To do so gives it oxygen and continued repeat.

Concentrate on the huge resources of Scotland and what we could do with them if they were properly deployed in an independent Scotland.

Proud Cybernat

Seems appropriate…

link to imgur.com

gordoz

Douglas McWilliams from the Centre for Economics and Business Research, is a Tube !!

That’s what sensible folk will take from Stu’s analysis – get it out there !!

Mike

@Breeks

Every knowledgeable Yoon in the UK knows and understands only too well the Scotland you’ve presented.
The problem is not that they don’t know or understand, the problem is they are too corrupt to acknowledge the truth.
They know every claim they make is false they themselves coin their propaganda “Project Fear”.
Even the less knowledgeable have learned that every claim made prior to the Indyref as a result of a Yes vote has occurred directly as a result of a No vote and yet many of them don’t care.
That’s the rub they don’t actually care what the truth is.
Their only truth is the Union. That Britain is great a world power and a player on the world stage.
They ignore all reality in order to feed off this delusion of self gratification in being a part of something greater than themselves.
We’re up against a Rule Britannia mentality coupled with a corrupt State supporting media circus which feeds the largest voting block in Scotland with unchallenged “News”. The elderly. A voting block with very little access to online media who take ALL their information from the TV and printed media.
SNP BAD Scotland too wee too poor too stupid. A daily unchallenged mantra for far too many of them.
Perhaps if the National was distributed for free throughout care homes and retirement homes or posted to pensioners throughout Scotland a more balanced view can be achieved?
But unless something of that nature occurs its not going to be enough to have truth on our side when perception is on theirs.

Footsoldier

BBC Scotland website political section has a feature on what to expect from party conferences.

It goes on to to explain that each party will have someone who dresses from head to toe in party colours or something outlandish.

Naturally being BBC Scotland they do not think at all and choose as an example, a single picture of someone at an SNP conference who is straight out of Brigadoon.

The BBC simply do no get what all the complaints of bias are about or they simply no longer care. It’s this type of action that brings the BBC into disrepute. Knowing that they have to be careful, show “nutters” from all the parties or show none. Plenty of pictures to choose from.

K1

Well said Breeks, an eloquent and beautifully expressed synopsis of the true state of affairs re Scotland’s economic bounty and the systematic destruction of our economy by successive UK governments over the past 40 years.

But this: ‘Our elderly have invested in Scotland their entire working lives. We aught to be thanking them, learning from them, not demeaning them as a nuisance and a burden we’d fare much better without.’ This needs hammered home repeatedly.

This attitude toward our elders as a burden and a drain is one of the most toxic, insidious and destructive pieces of proganda that has seeped into and taken root in the public consciousness. It had been deliberately deployed as a means to divide and create rancour between the generations, couched in ‘economic’ language it seems a plausible ‘criterion’ within the lexicon of economic analysis, but the insiuation of ‘burden and drain’ has always been the implicit message.

It’s aim is to break down ‘respect’ and ‘trust’ within communities. Between the ‘generations’. In simple terms it’s ‘divide and conquer’.

Clootie

David @ 10:20

…but we remain polite and present evidence based arguments such as EU member stats per GDP.
A slightly more literate fiscal arguement than you presented.

Capella

“Professor” Douglas McWilliams may have been the one who advised George Osborne to include drug dealing and prostitution in UKs 2014 GDP figures. Gave them quite a boost. In The City of London that is.

Tuesday’s update on the impact of the changes follows estimates last month from the ONS that in 2009 illegal drugs and prostitution boosted the economy by £9.7bn – equal to 0.7% of gross domestic product and roughly the same contribution as farming.

link to archive.is

heedtracker

Muscleguy

UK gov has taxed everything to the hilt, bar great wealth. Its not by chance.

MJT

@Ken500 The Press is doomed.

Is it? I’m not sure about that. The Express Group is a subsidiary of Northern & Shell. Northern and Shell have somewhat recently bought and sold various TV Stations for healthy profits.

The Daily Express, is a very small part of the Northern And Shell portfolio. Sales of ‘paper’ copies of newspapers is down, but that’s the times we live in. Most people get their news online…and for those who don’t, there’s paper copy.

It’s not a bad thing for folks to check out the accounts of Northern and Shell to get an idea of how they’re doing financially.

link to beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

In the accounts for the year ended 31 December 2015 There was 246,490 (000) as profits from sale of subsidiary undertakings in the 2014 Column. I accept that profits for the following year were down to less than a million quid but net assets in 2015 were valued at over 122 million. No need to rummage doon the sofa just yet IMO.

It, the Express and all the Unionist Newspapers serve their purpose. Propaganda plain and simple. Producing and maintaining narratives that serve the interests of Desmond, Murdoch, the Barclay Brothers and their ilk. You can read it in the Express, Times, Telegraph and they’ll talk about it on TV, and tweet about it and so it goes. It’s all about the narratives and setting the agenda.

Everyone should read or have read Chomsky’s What Makes Mainstream Media Mainstream essay.

link to chomsky.info

The next due date for filing of accounts for Northern and Shell is September 2017.

Bob MACK

@David,

To use my Glaswegian venacular. Yer a fud.

K1

welfare checks

Not from around here David…eh?

Brian Powell

All this stuff from Daisley, Andrew Neil etc, it’s a test, an experiment, to find out how much shite they can pour on Scots of before there is some reaction.

They found with Labour and the LibDems there is no limit, they accept open-mouthed, the Tories swim around in it, up to their chins, muttering, ‘Of course, you know, it’s not meant for us’.

Clydebuilt

O/t. Has anyone tried to get onto newsnet.scot recently …..getting message 493 Forbidden…… Is this a case of Bateman and crew trying to gain cuddle from Yessers…..

heedtracker

BBC Politics lunchtime tv show, tory balance from their Scotland region, Lucy Poshgirl from the Times and Crichton Poshboy Torquil of the Daily Record, who has a new hairdo and thinks that the SNP are bad. That’s not fair, BBC Politics show only talking England, why Torquil’s on their showing talking England’s politics? who cares.

Andrew Neil is unwell. Its Monday.

Mike

@David

Most countries gained their Independence via conflict and war. They started off from the post effects of conflict and war. During far more global turbulent times than we experience today and yet not one of them has ever been told they would have been too wee too poor or too stupid to go it alone.
Name ANY Independent country on the planet which would benefit more by giving up its Independence to Westminster.
JUST ONE!
When you cant then reflect on the level of utter pish you post. There is no economic level that Scotland would be subject to away from Westminster that can compare to the level MOST countries in the world started off with prior to their own Independence.
So enough of your gibbering trolling pish. You don’t have an argument and you know it.
There is no argument possible which can credibly paint Devolution as more beneficial than full Independence because to do so would be to argue that less is more and more is less while simultaneously arguing that more devolution is better than less Devolution.
That’s your case for the union right there. Any level of Devolution is better than ultimate Devolution.
That’s how fucking stupid and moronic it truly is.

Macart

@HandandShrimp

He’s a precious resource is Mr Daisley. 🙂

The longer he can be kept as a quotable source for the unionist argument, the better.

Dorothy Devine

Scotland will be a brilliant independent country , milk and honeyed from top to toe. Outlandishly wealthy and everyone will smile and dance in the streets.

Those words have NEVER been promoted on this site or any other concerned with independence – most have a realistic outlook involving hard work and willing workers looking to a better future for the children and grandchildren of Scotland regardless of creed or colour.

Macart

Remember folks. You don’t like what someone has to say, or you don’t like the way they say it, just walk on by.

Life’s too short and these threads too important.

Artyhetty

Wow how long has this guy been spouting the same old sh**e! Well, except that if the unionists were at the helm in Scotland, they would be taking Scotland down big style and not just talking Scotland down as they do incessantly.

Just saw a thing on twitter saying Saudi’s bigly interested in north sea oil fields. Same ‘oil and gas’ organisation saying ‘Scotland’s decommissioning of oil rigs is 10 years behind what it should be. So, when london wants the oil revenues, gratis like, it is UKok oil, when the rigs are no good anymore, they are Scotland’s rigs.

Scotland, you really are being taken for a mug, and it’s been going on for centuries.

I mentioned before about movingimage.nls.org. Short historical films on Scotland. Now, Some I wanted to watch on oil, not available online. I saw a couple of films about oil, seemingly from the west of Scotland,way back, 1930s.

One other only available as a clip of a longer film, called, ‘Hydro Power In Scotland’. 1964. The clip is of Thomas Johnston, Sec of state for Scotland. In less than a minute we are told that he had to come down very heavily on the britnat government to stop them from giving away Scotland’s water to private companies, forever and ever btw! ffs.

heedtracker

Oh Torquil was on BBC Politics to boost SLab conference this week, its going to be Daily Record Better Together jamboree, with The Vow 2.

Colin MacLean

I feel priveledgee that I come from the only country in the world that can’t govern itself!

I am so lucky to have the benevolent English elite that is prepared to bail my country out because we can’t manage on our own!

I fell so fortunate to have the free unbias press and bbc we get given!

Lastly, even if I were poor, wee and stupid, I”d still wnat my independence!

Why is that the English vote for Brexit they want their country back, yet Scots vote for independence and we are third world junkies?

Daisy Walker

I see from the Rev’s Twitter account the Crack Cocaine economy ‘expert’s’ organ is also against people being given public holidays. Dents productivity don’t you know.

Well so does drugs misuse, see the quote below, from America.

How big is America’s drug problem? BIG! And, this includes workplace employee drug abuse, too. The U.S. Government reports that, in the last month alone, 9.7 million Americans used marijuana and 1.9 million used cocaine!

What every employer should know about employee drug abuse includes these three facts about illicit drugs:
Just ‘one’ country – a country with only ‘five’ percent (5%) of the entire world’s population – buys and consumes fully sixty percent (60%) of the entire world’s supply of illicit drugs.

That ‘one’ country is the United States.

In the U.S., 77% of all illicit drug users are EMPLOYED either full or part-time!

But, is employee drug abuse really a problem for small business owners as well as for Corporate America?
YES!
Almost eight out of ten (77%) of Americans 18+ that use illicit drugs are employed full or part-time. That’s 9.4 MILLION workers involved in employee drug abuse! (How many of “those” employees work at YOUR company?)
As a result of employee drug abuse, the vast majority of businesses – small and large – suffer from substantially decreased productivity and increased accidents (accidents both on and off the job- the latter, of course, affecting attendance, and work performance while ON the job). Employee drug abuse also dramatically increases medical claims and workers’ compensation payouts. These more frequent claims, in turn, directly cause increases in the premiums paid by the employer for medical and workers’ comp coverage. (In fact, in the case of “medical” premiums, even employees end up paying higher contributions out of their paycheck every month!)

Additionally, employee drug abuse definitely leads to the abusers’ increased absenteeism and taking more than the average number of “sick days”- time off often paid for by their employer. While abusers are “buzzed” on the job, they are responsible for more product defects, missed deadlines, incomplete projects, or inaccurate work. To support their drug habit, abusers are responsible for higher than normal instances of employee theft- not just from their company, but from their fellow employees, too. They also can be counted on for more employee equipment loss, employee equipment damage, and other problems- including drug-dealing (again, to support their own drug habit)!

Kupo

I normally get angry at b..ls..t like this. However, this is lol funny and the way the express deftly, beautifully and gloriously articulates its title headline is just inspirational stuff.

Anyhoo, back to the real world where you are, no one and I mean no one with a minimum dolphin or maybe chimp level brain( I guess the OO, loyalist, no surrender brigade are out of the running on that one) will believe a word of this.

It’s all rather sad really that these so-called journalists would think this is the BOMB-news scoop of the week worth plastering on to inform the electorate that they’re going from a very highly developed country today to a shite one tomorrow maybe 5,10,20 weeks or 30 years or 50,000 years from now give or take.

Artyhetty

Apparently contradicting myself, re films about oil from the west coast, which are not available but it gives a description of contents in the film. Sorry O/T.

orri

The story consists of the fact that a projected future of Scotland’s economy based on current trends combined with the Polish economy improved means that sooner rather than later the two might pass.

The important point, as others have already made, is that that future projection is made whilst Scotland is, for the most part, under the control of the UK.

So it’s obvious that changes will have to be made. It’s also fucking obvious that the only way those changes will be made is via independence.

heedtracker

Some of you regulars might just have to get a job. Imagine that? :D. Ok that WAS a trollish comment. But you f**kwits deserve it for your reactionary s**te.”

David, that is one of yoon cultures regular slams but I never get it.

UK and English reign over Scotland has impoverished millions of Scots for generations, in a country that floats on oil and gas for example.

So why not look to our new Holyrood and Scottish democracy to actually change what are clearly disastrous UKOK socio economics, if you are jobless?

Its what its all about David. Its why the UK is over.

Nana

@Macart 12.43 Absolutely agree, scroll by those who seek to disrupt.

O/T A couple of links re EU

Article by Kirtshy Hughes and Tobias Lock

Senior Fellow at Friends of Europe, Brussels and Senior Lecturer in European Union Law and Co-Director of the Edinburgh Europa Institute at the University of Edinburgh respectively.

link to sceptical.scot

link to theneweuropean.co.uk

CameronB Brodie

David
You’re correct, Scotland does have ingrained structural problems. Independence changes everything though, in terms of the Scottish government’s potential to follow policy focused on Scottish needs. For the first time ever, a Scottish government will be able to EMPLOY ALL OUR WEALTH AND NATURAL RESOURCES, developing Scottish culture for Scottish benefit.

As you might expect, trying to gauge what tomorrow will bring requires insight, imagination and vision. The below is written from an American but it’s the principles that matter.

The Causes of Poverty
Cultural vs. Structural:
Can There Be a Synthesis?

There are many competing theories about the causes of poverty in the United States with mountains of empirical evidence to justify support for each. The debate among theorists and policymakers is primarily divided between advocates who support cultural/behavioral arguments and those who support structural/economic arguments. This debate tends to manifest itself across political party lines with republicans supporting the cultural/behavioral thesis and democrats looking more to structural causes. The passage of the “behavioral” focused Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (1996) and its possible strengthening by the Bush Administration and its congressional allies calls for further examination of the relationship between cultural/behavioral and structural causes of poverty. This paper will briefly examine the theoretical arguments behind these competing views followed by an analysis to determine the empirical relevancy of each. It should be noted that the exploration of this topic began with the intention of making an argument for the fusion of these perspectives into a single empirically validated theory; one that would build upon Orlando Patterson’s (2000) theoretical model on the interaction between cultural models, structural environments and behavioral outcomes.

link to asu.edu

link to cost.eu

Robert Graham

Mike;@ 12.39 , Well done that man never missed the target and hit the wall , i am glad you moderated your Language mine would have got me banned ha ha , again you are amongst friends and like minded folk .

David

Ok. Lesson learned. Never, ever, ever voice a slightly different opinion in an echo chamber 😉

The reactionary voices on this site are a fairly stable argument against Scottish independence.

In fact, its the only positive thing I can think of if we dont get our independence this time around – the type of drivel that will pour onto some of the comments on this blog. lol

David

@CameronB Brodie

Cheers Buddy. I know Scotland is a virtual gold mine. Its not wrong to try to be realistic though.

Pete

David
A bit over the top but he makes some good points.
I think we need to accept that for a good few years we are going to be poorer
We will need to accept reductions in public expenditure as to increase taxes would just be madness.
Being a brexiteer I happily accept that it will be bumpy and probably make us a bit poorer than we otherwise would be for a few years.
But, what price freedom!!!!!!
It’s also interesting how often the regulars post on here and the amount of time they are able to devote.
Makes you wonder???????

Ken500

Johnston Press has been fighting for survival since the financial crash. It is wrestling with the decline of the local newspaper industry and is labouring under debts. It has £200Millions of bonds that are due to examine it refinancing options. It has £200Million of bonds due to mature in 2019, that will need to be refinanced. £137Million of debt. The shares have dropped to 17p, valuing it at £17Million. Rothchild have been brought it to for advice. Bernstein, Crystal Amber fund that owns 20% of the shares, has lost confidence in CE Ashley Highfield and finance manager David King.

Trinity Press (Mirror) were looking to take over the Express. Conciliation. There is loss of readership and advertising revenues. Most assets concern property. Real estate. The value of commercial premises.

louis.b.argyll

Successive UK GOVERNMENTS have cut social and care management services.

The rising ‘age of the population’ HASNT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT.

Failure to match forecasts with realistic funding IS DELIBERATE.

The Tories are rubbing their hands in glee, that we’re actually blaming the ‘ageing population’ itself (instead of them)) while they privatise the NHS IN ENGLAND.

Big Jock

Correct me if I am wrong, but there are currently no third world countries in Europe. Is Scotland going to the first and only third world country in Europe. Behind Romania, Ukraine, Latvia,Estonia, Poland,Greece, Iceland, Slovakia…..

The truth is that it’s not even possible for a european nation to become third world. It would require a complete breakdown of capital,healthcare and education.

To claim such a thing is reprehensible and the economist should be laughed at or pitied.

heedtracker

It’s also interesting how often the regulars post on here and the amount of time they are able to devote.
Makes you wonder???????

Makes you wonder what Pete? What an idiot you are.

Proud Cybernat

Fuck! Now there’s two of them!

Mike

@Pete

No Pete we actually don’t have to accept that at all.
Scotland goes Independent either with NO DEBT at all or with a proportion of UK debt plus a proportion of UK assets.
Either scenario sees Scotland starting off in a position where is wont have to make a choice between cuts or taxation.
We will start with a surplus relative to what we have now.
There is no Scottish deficit there is ONLY a UK deficit partly being attributed to Scotland as our Union benefit.
Its the UK Government who are over spending not the Scottish Government and they are not over spending on Scotland or for Scotland they are overspending to maintain their austerity ideology their Rule Britannia global stage mentality their criminally corrupt treasonous ideology of transferring public funding onto the Private sector.
That’s where our money is going straight to the Private sector instead of to public services.
That’s our “Overspend” right there and that disappears with Independence and Independent spending choices.
Actually spending on public services and not warmongering Trident bank bailouts PFI PPP programs.
The UK is awash with public funding because we are the most heavily taxed society on the planet the problem is not in the amount of money available but in how that money is criminally and ideologically spent.
That’s what Independence will do from day 1 remove the ideological criminal spending programs from Scotlands budgets.
That’s why we wont need to increase taxation or cut services. Christ what services are there left to cut?
They are cut to the bone already thanks to Privatisation.

galamcennalath

Dorothy Devine says:

a brilliant independent country , milk and honeyed from top to toe. Outlandishly wealthy and everyone will smile and dance in the streets.

That picture was painted by some of the Brexiteers for their iEngland! Some Leave voters still believe it.

We have a more realistic aspiration for our iScotland.

Clapper57

Signs of drug abuse :

Paranoia – Check

Reduced inhibitions – Check

Difficulty concentrating – Check

Decreased mental sharpness – Check

Poor performance at work – Check

An altered sense of perception – Check

Confusion – Check

Psychotic behavior – Check

Delusions – Check

Impaired judgement – Check

Aggressive , possibly violent behavior – Check

There is obvious CRACKS in this story it’s not really STIMULATING . It’s all very well for them sitting on their HIGH horses judging, but to just accept that he is correct is frankly so irresponsible they should be STONED with ROCKS.

This story made me SNORT with laughter and take a sharp INHALE of breath, they did INJECT some humour into story when they mentioned name of expert though.

One could easily become ADDICTED to stories such as this if one was DEPENDENT on fake news.

I think that the Prof should ask for a WITHDRAWAL of this story as he must now realise that there is no real SUBSTANCE to his story.

I do not think he should PROSTITUTE himself and I think he is just a regular JOHN who sometimes TRICKS us as obvious he can be a bit of a BLOW. And he should not PIMP himself out to these despicable rags.

I am sure anyone, with half a brain, reading this SHIT will not have their MINDS ALTERED because you would have to be on DRUGS to believe this crock ( or Crack) of SHIT in fact you would have to be a big DOPE . These DEALERS PEDDLE their lies and I am sure this type of churnalism will WEAR OFF as it is just such a DOWNER.

Read up on the Prof and my God it beggars belief that they had to stoop so LOW to pull this Muppet out of the bag…..he is literally waiting for the CANDY MAN …..in more ways than one. Lol.

sensibledave

… just thought I would say Hi and disassociate myself from the two mischief makers on here today.

As regulars will know, my role is simply to inform, educate, correct the misguided and share my brilliant insights. A sort of moderator really.

shiregirl

I think David needs a hug.

dakk

David says
‘The reactionary voices on this site are a fairly stable argument against Scottish independence.’ 1.07pm

Your comment at 10.20 probably made more sense than this one.

Mike

@David

“Ok. Lesson learned. Never, ever, ever voice a slightly different opinion in an echo chamber
The reactionary voices on this site are a fairly stable argument against Scottish independence.
In fact, its the only positive thing I can think of if we dont get our independence this time around – the type of drivel that will pour onto some of the comments on this blog. lol”

This clown started of posting by claiming it was Pro Independence.
“The Reactionary voices” Only a Yoon would describe pro Scottish Independence argument as “Reactionary”
David this is how normal people “REACT” to reading pure unadulterated pish.
If you weren’t a Yoon and you read it from somebody else you would “REACT” in exactly the same way.
So why don’t you start doing your day job as a Labour/Tory councillor?

galamcennalath

Of course iScotland will cut public spending!

Stop £4billon on England’s debt replayments, £1billion reduction of defence spending, stop contributing it SE England infrastructure projects … there’s a bloody great hole in Scotland’s supposed ‘deficit’ sorted.

In a low price year the Norwegian government makes £2billion from its oil. Much much more on a good year. iScotland needs to copy their model.

Cuts? The only thing which needs to be cut around here is abusive. colonial rule from London.

Proud Cybernat

Scrub that. Now THREE of them.

HandandShrimp

David

What people are reacting to is your Lord Monkton “Scottish Subsidy Junkies” meme.

Benefits cheats undoubtedly do exist but they are not as big an economic issue as is often thought. The Tories and their we are all in together crap has in fact focussed almost entirely on cutting benefits. Austerity as a philosophy as sought to correct the fiscal imbalance purely on the backs of the most vulnerable. The wealthy have in fact got wealthier.

No one expects a benefits system that rewards stupidity and laziness but we do not want a benefits system that demonizes the poor and vulnerable either.

I do not doubt that there are people that see an independent Scotland as an opportunity to plough a libertarian laissez faire model. By and large given the political lean of the majority here you are unlikely to get many takers for such an approach on Wings. Yes it is an alternative economic argument but one that will entrench privilege and leave the poor behind.

shiregirl

Proud Cybernat says:
20 February, 2017 at 1:48 pm
Scrub that. Now THREE of them.

😀

I’ve time for sensibledave as he is affable, but misguided 🙂 … unlike some of the yoonatics posting today. They are clearly on the wind up.

Arabs for Independence

It is a pity that M15 or the British establishment never had any excuse to blackmail Mr McWilliams

Chick McGregor

Clapper

Boy you really got into GEAR there. 🙂

Proud Cybernat

“It’s also interesting how often the regulars post on here and the amount of time they are able to devote.”

I’m a keyboard warrior. It’s what I do. But definitely not a warrior of the (t)Ruthless type though:

link to imgur.com

Our Indy will be won like this:

link to imgur.com

K1

‘Ok. Lesson learned. Never, ever, ever voice a slightly different opinion in an echo chamber ?’

This would be an example from your ‘slightly different opinion’:

‘Some of you regulars might just have to get a job. Imagine that? :D. Ok that WAS a trollish comment. But you f**kwits deserve it for your reactionary s**te.”

Your’e getting pelters precisely because of your cherry picking from the ‘how we’re taught to view ourselves as Westminster sees us’ fiction sheet. And for your insulting comments. And you just proven that you’re a compete fud by then pretending that your ‘unique’ and ‘slightly different opinion’ is the ‘problem’ with what you are copying and pasting from ‘any old rag’s’ front pages of ‘Scotland’s a disaster, Independence will prove it’ shysters shit.

When that’s not the problem at all, what your’e writing David isn’t that ‘slightly different’ from anything that most unionists are printing. Which is mostly lies and obfuscation.

Don’t play the victim card David, everyone can see plainly what you are doing. And it’s quite frankly…pathetic.

Robert Peffers

And himself a Scot?Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

Aye! Richt!

Robert Burns – in 1791

Such A Parcel Of Rogues In A Nation

“Fareweel to a’ our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory;
Fareweel ev’n to the Scottish name,
Sae fam’d in martial story.
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An’ Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England’s province stands-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue,
Thro’ many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages.
The English stell we could disdain,
Secure in valour’s station;
But English gold has been our bane-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay,
Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour,
I’ll mak this declaration;
We’re bought and sold for English gold-
Such A Parcel Of Rogues In A Nation”

Burns was perhaps born before his time.

Mind you this was written just 84 years after those particular rogues were selling Scotland off and only 46 years after the Battle of Culloden and thus the events were still very raw in the memories of older Scots.

K1

Pete…fae Endinubrugh?

Have you heard of mobile devices? Y’know the things that can be carried about anywhere and utilised at any moment?

Arsehole.

Terry

“An independent scotland would be like Greece without the sun”.

When I’m met with this I just say –

“An independent scotland would be like Norway but WITH the whisky”.

That floors them. After all we are far more similar to Norway in the realms of population, geography, resources etc you can see the penny dropping. Then you casually add to the list things like the gaming industry that scotland has that even Norway doesn’t. He he.

Try this approach. It works.

bjsalba

@Muscleguy

Heard of the
European Globalisation Adjustment Fund (EGF)

The European Globalisation Adjustment Fund provides support to people losing their jobs as a result of major structural changes in world trade patterns due to globalisation, e.g. when a large company shuts down or production is moved outside the EU, or as a result of the global economic and financial crisis.

Last I heard, the UK has never applied.

Dr Jim

When Nicola Sturgeon goes to bed at night she dreams of how to make Scotland poorer
When she wakes up, making Scotland poorer occupies her thoughts for the entire day
Her ambition in life and her burning desire is to make us all poverty stricken

And still after listening to all this crap Unionists and No voters haven’t asked themselves the question..Why would she do that? wouldn’t she be instantly voted out of office if that happened?

So they must believe the FM and the SNP are completely incompetent, but if so why does the SNP keep getting elected by huge majorities?
So by implication these experts and their newspapers are telling the electorate of Scotland that we’re all stupid and that includes No voters because many of them vote SNP but don’t necessarily want Independence

So in conclusion the English government, the Tory economists, and the English owned newspapers are shouting at Scotland in the same manner they shout derogatory abuse at every other foreign country and their people who they want out of England but for some strange unfathomable reason they never articulate they demand to keep Scotland close and love us and cuddle us while still holding the right to abuse us

Now if you were to take these symptoms to a divorce court I can practically guarantee who’s side the judge would rule on
Scotland would get the Hoose the car the kids the dug and the three piece suite and telly plus maintainance and the Unionists would be lucky to avoid jail time!

Fergus Green

@Terry 2.17

“An independent Scotland would be like Norway but WITH the whisky”.

Great response.

wull2

Dr Jim, who gets the CDs ? now that worth reporting in the media.

bugsbunny

OneScot,

It’s on page 2 of the Sun as well. Project Fear 2 has been well and truly launched. Just in time to save the scum that controls Glasgow. Well it won’t work. To hell with the lot of them. It’s time the SNP took the kid gloves off, even if it’s just to defend themselves. Being nice only invites bullies to use your face as a door mat. Enough is enough.

Luigi

O/T two of the favoured yoon comments on IndyRef 2 appear to be:

1) The large movement of NO to YES observed since the BREXIT vote has been more than cancelled out by voters moving in the opposite direction.

2) The polls have been stable for so long and have solidified. Opinions have hardened and polarised. Any further gains to YES will be very difficult.

Ahem, either there has been a large movement of NO to YES and vice versa, OR opinions have hardened and won’t change anymore. Can’t be both, yoons. 🙂

Roboscot

Daily Express HUMILIATED by proper journalist.

Clapper57

Chick McGregor says:
20 February, 2017 at 1:59 pm
Clapper

“Boy you really got into GEAR there”.

Chick…..oh my giddy aunt how did I MISS using the word GEAR…knew there was another word I could have used…..must get up to SPEED for next time.

Have great day.

bugsbunny

Someone jokingly asked me last week, “What would happen if everyone was given an IQ test to vote and anyone under 95 was denied the franchise?” Before I could answer my friend replied, “All the old Labour voters who switched to Tory and all the people who march the streets with unrolled umbrellas and bowlers hats would suddenly have no vote and Scotland would be free”.

Let’s face it, he’s right. A bigger bunch of morons it’s harder to find this side of the Appalachian Mountains. Donald Trump once said, “I like the stupid, they vote for me”. Ruthie and Kezia can claim the same.

dakk

“An independent Scotland would be like Norway but WITH the whisky”.

Also we know that Britain/England without stealing Scotland’s wealth and resources would be like Bangladesh…WITH the floods

Clapper57

@Shiregirl

“I’ve time for sensibledave as he is affable”

Shiregirl, AFFABLE ?..No…LAUGHABLE…Yes….AFFABLE….No.

Sorry could not resist, absolutely no offense meant to you…have a good day.

Robert Graham

Oh well according to dave everyone posting here ,wasters , out of work , benefit scroungers, with way too much time on their hands.
I learned years ago it is often dangerous to make assumptions about anyone’s particular circumstances or indeed who they are given most of us never have the full picture of anyone , in short David ( if that is the name he has to use today ) is making this assumption in order to extract a reaction , job done his shift must be over by now and the next plant will take his or her place , Possibly all you folk with f/k all to do could work out the shift pattern & changes and react accordingly as these interlopers are not here by accident .

Daisy Walker

Yes We Can,

One of the first things an Independent Scotland can do is to take the £300 million each year, currently appropriated by the BBC, and which is raised fully in Scotland, and invest it in some good going Film/TV studios.

Site it somewhere in the middle of the Central Belt, and low and behold, it would be 1 hour from Edinburgh, 1 hour from Glasgow and their airports. It would be an hour from the Highlands – world class scenery. And 2 – 3 hours from the beeches of the Western Isles.

Of course TV and Film need arty types, don’t they. Glasgow School of Art is internationally recognised as one of the worlds best. And I’m willing to bet Edinburgh and Duncan of Jordansons are no too shabby either.

It would need some fine dining, fancy hotels for stars to stay… Gleneagles would do I would imagine, got a bit of practice.

And of course an industry like that needs, make up artists, hairdressers, joiners, sparkies, caterers (Perth College has a good rep for some of these). Its only jobs and apprenticeships like. And all of that’s before you even talk about writers, directors, actors…

Ah, yes, but a lot of films these days rely on Computer Generated Special Effects. How on earth would pour, wee Scotland ever provide fancy stuff like that. Well they might nip along to Dundee where they made and developed the worlds best selling computer game Grand Theft Auto, and see if they can help.

And of course a Government with it hands on all the levers of control, well they could do some tax incentives to attract new films, now what small, heather clad, rain torn country did that recently and to good effect? Hmmm, oh yes Ireland.

Kind of worked for them too, (Braveheart did rather well internationally) and Northern Ireland landed the shooting rights for Game of Thrones – one of the biggest, best selling TV shows on the planet at the moment, and in addition to the jobs it has created there for the actual filming… oh yes it has also generated an additional tourist trade off the back of it. In total £45 million a year to their economy.

The Gvt could even invest in the Film/TV/Acting schools and universities with a few grants.

But what else could such an investment do? Hmm, well lets see, villages and towns and estates where the filming takes place, come to financial agreements. Kaching. And of course they often need extras for the filming. Can you imagine being a school child, or a teenager, or a student, or a pensioner, and getting a go at that. For some at least it would be an inspiration and for the others a wee bit of cash.

And all of this activity creates a buzz about a place, and they need places to feed and water and relax, and before you know it you’ve got a thriving boost to a local city economy.

And say, just say, they produce a fairly successful TV series, oh say like Outlander, for example… (don’t worry if you never heard of it, it doesn’t get shown here, cause David Cameron spoke to Sony to prevent it – cause he was so interested in Wealth Creation, good little tory that he was! aye right) well wouldn’t you just know it… it gets sold and shown all round the world, which feeds into that little old tourism thing again. Yahoo.

And what does tourism do, but bring in foreign money into the country, which helps the balance of trade payments. Well who’d have thunk it.

And all of that, from our current payments to the London Beeb.

And that is just one small example of what can be fairly easily done where there is the will, the vision and most importantly the governmental levers of power to do so.

Instead of which we get Jackie Burd. And fucking Coke Heads telling us we cannae.

Anyway, this is my response to Trolls. Yes We Can. Coming up next is Oil and Gas, Renewables, Whiskey, Peoples Banks, Land Ownership, Defence, and not just from me, but all the Wingers and a whole nation of Yessers.

Proud Cybernat

“Oh well according to dave everyone posting here ,wasters , out of work , benefit scroungers, with way too much time on their hands.”

Wonder how he knows who the “regulars” are? Keeping tabs on us, Dave?

Walloper.

Liz Rannoch

Rev on twitter has just asked for Mail/Express front page “…spitting on the graves of war dead..”.
I found this but don’t do twitter, can anybody help?

link to forres-gazette.co.uk

Liz Rannoch

me @ 3.00

Could be something the mail/express jumped all over a day or two later? Wouldn’t be like them.

galamcennalath

A wee bit competition can be a good thing.

When we go our separate ways, which the Tories seem Hell bent on facilitating, howsabout a wee challenge.

Which country, iScotland or iEngland will be first to banish child poverty?

CameronB Brodie

I think I’ve mentioned that social inclusion is of paramount concern.

Theories of Poverty: A Comparative Analysis

Many poverty authors point out that the various ways poverty is conceptualized and measured are very crucial because different poverty measures tend to capture different people as poor. The main focus of this research is to review the theoretical and empirical research on theories of poverty, poverty measures and outcomes. Subsequently, we discuss conceptual framework of the different poverty measures.

link to arabianjbmr.com

link to jrf.org.uk

David Mills

I have but one arising question how in the name of the wee name did Douglas Fraser get that article pass the BBC filters and on the the BBC SCOTLAND news Web page.

heedtracker

You can watch listen to Lords debate Brexit right now online. UK gov spokes lady says all devolved parliaments are involved with Mayhem’s Brexit team. No idea how though.

Nice to see our UKOK imperial masters bare faced lying like this though.

Big Jock

I’m at work, not sponging or begging as Pete suggests. I work at a desk with a pc . It’s not that hard to find time between work to post on Wings when your IQ is more than 95!

Macart

To put not too fine a point on it for the experts.

If the economic model of this unitary state is so fecking wunnerful, just why is there a mahoosive debt? A debt, which rather than receding through due repayment, is set to climb from its current level of £1.6tr to £1.9tr by 2020? Why is there a need for a fiscal reset? Why is there austerity ideology in place? Why is Scotland’s economy at best under threat and at worst a basket case?

Oh, and given UK gov’s handling of the economy is so catastrophic, just why should the ‘think tanks’ so treasued by the meeja and central government be trusted sources of information? Let’s face it. If they are a ‘go to’ souce of HMGs fiscal advice, they clearly haven’t done a very good job of advising government, have they?

None of these ‘think tank’ experts, the meeja or their Westminster chain tuggers have any room to decry the economic records of other states and most especially not when a number of the near neighbours on the continent seem to manage quite well without their input. When they get their own shit in order, they may then and only then have a little wiggle room. Right about now however, neither their record, nor or their … advice, really impresses.

Aikenheed

WOW Daisy just WOW

Col

I’ve just had a thought.
Scotland is in a bipartite union with England. Let’s forget about Wales and Northern Ireland for the moment.
If Scotland is denied access to the UK’s accounting surely this union is completely invalid in that we can never get that access. Just a thought.

Les Wilson

For those who have not read this article about how our
oil was stolen here is an interesting link to ponder.

link to independent.co.uk

Proud Cybernat

Aye Daisy. That was a belter. Looking forward to your next installment.

Hey Yoons – see what you can do with just a wee bit of thinking and when you stop wasting £300 million on the BBC in Scotland.

Albert Herring

It’s Pete ‘n’ Dud all over again.

Jack Murphy

With reference to the main article at top of page, highlighting the Doom that awaits an independent Scotland,I’ll re-post this link I put up a couple of days ago:-

“a video clip from last week’s Glasgow BBC Question Time—Mark Littlewood,Director General of Institute of Economic Affairs.”
Video is embedded in the article.

link to tinyurl.com

Fergus Green

@Daisy Walker 2.57

I have to admit Daisy, I don’t always always read the longer posts- paragraphised or otherwise – but I’m certainly happy I read yours.

That was great.

bugsbunny

Sensible Dave,

So if you’re on the computer between 9 and 5 you’re a scrounger?

So what about health workers like Nurses and Auxiliaries who work 12 hour shifts 4 days on 3 days off twice a month and 3 days on 4 days off twice a month,( 8 x 12 + 6 x 12 = 96 + 72 = 168 hours per month /4 = 42 hours per week), the same as 9 to 5 folks 5 days a week. Are they lazy scroungers? While your watching Eastenders 2 hours after your 9 to 5 job finished from trolling folks online paid by their taxes Mr Spook, these same individuals who started work before you got out your bed are just finishing work. So kindly shut the f**k up you twat.

Dr Jim

So the so called Brexit bill begins in the HOL with Theresa May in attendance for opening speeches glaringly staring accross at opposition spokesperson Baroness Smith of Basildon
who waved off TMs threats to the Lords and ridiculed the terminology of Brexit means Brexit and the so called Great Repeal bill (her words)

Theresa May glowered at her through slitted eyes and it made not one jot of a difference to the Baroness
Then Theresa May left the building

One of the threats made by the government was to flood the HOL with a thousand Tory Lords to get their way to which the Baroness pointed out that would take around two years to do and would be too late for the government by then by then

I keep thinking I might have to smear the blood of a lamb accross my front door and stay in for a while
I can’t think why I’m reminded of that

heedtracker

Albert Herring says:
20 February, 2017 at 3:33 pm
It’s Pete ‘n’ Dud all over again.

If only. All bums like Pete and his assorted yoons on here are doing really is saying, how your country is run is none of your concern.

If you are concerned about how Scotland is run and even dare to say so online, then bums like Pete want you to know that there MUST be something wrong with you, very wrong, so wrong you’re unemployable.

Welcome to the tory mindset, red and blue, on planet toryboy, where politics is theirs, and the tory BBC led media’s too.

Isn’t that right Pete?

Robert Louis

So, we can see quite clearly now, that the unionists are getting scared. For months now, they have been telling us all, Nicola Sturgeon is bluffing and she will never call a referendum. Now, they start re-hashing the tired old silly scare stories of the original project fear.

If we believe what these propaganda ‘news’papers tell us, Scotland is a poor bereft wee country, that is dependent upon London handouts, and it is ONLY because of the unending largesse of the English Tory Government, that Scotland stays afloat. Aye, right.

Of course upon independence, we would either have zero debt, or a share of the UK debt plus an equivalent share of UK assets, to start with. Then we could chart an economic course, that won’t involved spending billions of pounds on the unwanted Nuclear bombs on the river clyde, we wouldn’t be paying for the high speed rail line in England anymore, or grandiose projects such as Heathrow’s third runway, or the London crossrail project.

No, instead we could invest in the infrastructure of Scotland, creating a powerful, innovative economy, based upon distilling, oil and gas, renewables, food and fish, life sciences, finance and so on.

The future of Scotland is very bright, but only if we remove London’s shackles which are holding us back.

Time for independence. Time for Scotland to be a nation again. Unionists are right to be feart.

Famous15

Scotland is unique..

It is a rich country but we will be poor. Why? Because Unionists say so. Get over it.

Brian MacLeod

Aye, after independence under the SNP we’ll be as broke as Saudi Arabia within weeks…. 🙂

Breeks

Well I’m quite relaxed about Scotland’s recovery post Independence because it’s already happening before Independence. We have a government supporting Scottish industry, Dalzell steelworks reopened, major investment plans for Kinlochleven, our new Forth Bridge and Borders Railway… Makes a change from Westminster shutting it all down, or fudging the tenders to rob Rosyth of contracts they meant to award to Devonport, or the more usual “now you see it, now you don’t” UK contract which gets wheeled out whenever there’s a vote in the offing.

Just imagine what our government could do with full control over our economy once we are no long chained at the hip to the UK. Come to think of it, just imagine what our government could do with goodwill from our European neighbours, rather than decades of sullen frustration.

I dare say there will be difficulties, there will be problems, there will be inevitable set backs, but Scotland will be just like every other country who finds their feet after independence. Many such countries would give their eye teeth to have a fraction of the resources and potential which Scotland has. We don’t know how lucky we are.

And then of course, we come to the alternative – because unlike 2014, there is no status quo option to preserve. We can choose to control our destiny, or strap ourselves into passengers seat as the UK tries to defy all the global observers who cannot believe the rank idiocy of Brexit. You talk about uncertainty for Scottish business? Hello? HELLO? You do know what Brexit actually means, don’t you? The EU not only has its own free market, but Trade Deals in place with a further 50 Non EU countries, and Britain is going stick two fingers up to every one of those deals and make up its own rules overnight… Yeah, good luck with that. I’m sure the Aussies and Kiwi’s don’t harbour any grudges about being hung out to dry in the 1970’s. I’m sure the Chinese will be fine with your embarrassing outbursts of xenophobia, and hey, the USA has to dump its steroid pumped beef somewhere… somewhere daft enough or desperate enough to agree to widespread deregulation.

Heads up David and Mike, there is only one political leader in the U.K. currently talking sense and squaring away the housekeeping of good government; reassuring those imperilled and alienated by the stupidity of Brexit and Tory government which won’t even commit to protecting the interests of non-nationals. Nicola Sturgeon did so as an instinctive reflex. You do realise there are one or two British citizens living in Europe who will reap what you have sown? Not just the kick up the arse for all those swarthy Johnny Foreigner types who you want to see the back of.

Nicola Sturgeon does have the confidence of Scottish business, and she also has the confidence of the Leadership of other EU States, while they are still rubbing their eyes in disbelief that the UK has evicted itself from Europe, and then demands the concessions of membership. The UK has thrown itself into free fall and now tries to reassure the Brexiteers that a parachute will be coming along any minute.

Brexit will be fine they cheer. Look! Exports are up! Yeah? What about Imports? Or have we a decent size of rug to sweep the UK’s balance of Trade out of sight? For the dummies here, the U.K. is a nett importer of goods, so a weak pound costs the economy more than it saves.
But consumer spending is strong! Yes, so it is. Get your fridges and washing machines quick, because they’ll be costing twice as much by the end of the simmer.

Yeah, let’s not talk about Brexit; that genius idea worked out between David Cameron and George Osborne, hijacked by the far right racists and spivs who want to see Britain’s attitude towards immigrants restored to 19th Century values. But never mind Boris Johnson is still in there, fighting the good fight and doing whatever is best for Boris Johnson. We’re all in safe ha… err…

In fact, I’m so cock sure of myself, I think I’ll go an troll on some Unionist web chat, and rub a few folks noses in it…. Or no, wait a minute, I won’t, because I’m not a sad little arsehole.

Proud Cybernat

You’re on fire today, Breeks! Gawn yersel!

K1

I am happy to echo that Proud Cybernat…guan yersel’ Breeks!

bugsbunny

Cybernat@ 1.26

“Fuck,now there’s two of them”.

Actually David, Pate and Sensible Dave all have the same writing style, grammar and post around the same time. I’ve even seen them all within 30 minutes of each other. Of course this individual spook, (we’ll call him Rupert) posts mornings as well as afternoons.

So either he is unemployed, retired, disabled, or more that likely typing from some government outpost. I challenge anyone to say that David, Pete, and Sensible Dave are NOT the same person. I say they are. And probably Phil Robertson as well.
They all write the same, type the same. say the same things at the same time. #what a coincidence?

sensibledave

bugsbunny @ 3.43

What’s up doc? What did I do to deserve that little tirade from you? I don’t think your comment was anything to do with anything I wrote?

Much prefer:……

shiregirl at 1:58 pm

She wrote “I’ve time for sensibledave as he is affable”

Thank you Shiregirl. I will take that!

(Now Heedy, that is not a cue for you to write an unintelligible missive without punctuation or discernible meaning other than to suggest I am a “yooun/UKOK/Toryboy” whatever. And Robert Peffers, please don’t write 30 paragraphs to explain, again, to me why Alex Salmond is actually the heir to the Crown in Wales and the evidence you have that proves it!).

I hope that you are all enjoying some of the springlike weather we are enjoying darn eer in the sarf – although we are told winter will be back before the end of the week. Its too nice for politics today.

Dal Riata

Nice one Stu, skewered the bastard!

For sure, the Loonunionists on Twitter and the like will be close to self-combustion such will be their venom towards Stu regarding this article.

The fact that it was their own propaganda sheets that – two years ago – printed the truth about ‘top economist’ Douglas Williams’ behaviour regarding imbibing star-spangled powder and beating up women will undoubtedly be ignored. Fucking idiots.

Oh aye, and yer man there Osborne. It’s alleged that he’s fond of a wee Colombian marching powder sensation himself. Expensive business. No wonder (allegedly) he charges, and receives, excessive amounts of moolah for his ‘speeches’ to the gullible…

stu mac

@HandandShrimp
=============

link to gov.uk

I’m not too great at interpreting these things and there are different levels for different kinds of benefits, however as far as I can see benefit fraud is no higher than c.4.5% for some and as low as under 2% for others. So benefit fraud accounts for less than 5% at worst and in many cases much lower. Also the amount of money lost is miniscule compared to tax avoidance which much less effort is put into preventing.

Big Jock

Interesting that they think project fear will work twice. I suppose it’s all they’ve got. But to win a battle with the same two protagonists when the ground has shifted and using the same tactics is very naive.

You see it works like this. When you scare a child the first time, they might just believe you. But when the child knows the story already. They know what’s coming so the effect is diminished to the point of losing it’s bite altogether.

Furthermore when the child realises that adults have been lying to them. They go off and discover the truth, and the lies become white noise.

Dorothy Devine

Gallamennalath , I hope you read the last bit of my comment!

Daisy , I’ve rolled my sleeves up and am raring to go!

yesindyref2

Makes you wonder. Wings clearly gets the trolls that didn’t even get selected for the reserves of the B team. Who gets the ones that are any good?

K1

In case some people need reminded of the former Chancellor of the Exchequer of Westminster parliament:

Here he is out of his fucking face sitting on the front benches:

link to youtube.com

That him and McWilliams worked together in any capacity raises serious questions about the competence and professional abilities of those at the top levels of government who clearly imbibe class A illegal drugs whilst informing policy and making laws that affect the rest of us.

I’ll not trust a single word that comes out of people like McWilliams mouth when he is clearly compromised at every level. That these rags promote these utter failed human beings as somehow reliable impartial truth brokers who haven’t bent every rule in the book and are probably at serious risk of blackmail is utterly beyond parody.

And anyone, I mean anyone who cites any sources such as these as somehow accurately reflecting the economic picture that would emerge in Scotland after independence are themselves deeply intellectually flawed and reveal a massive deficit in their own comprehension skills, as they clearly have no capacity to see through these shysters and what their true aims are.

People like the McWilliams’ and Osborne’s of the world are useful idiots, they do what they are telt because they have lost all humanity and have been thoroughly compromised. They are fodder fed to the masses disguised as ‘legitimate’ sources, scratch the surface and you have the ugly and painful (for the naive) truth, that these people are corrupt beyond redemption and their aim is to maintain their thoroughly corrupt practices and lifestyles. At any cost. That’s it.

Rock

The Scottish media, led by the BBC, is the enemy of the Scottish people, in my view.

manandboy

link to bbc.co.uk

Meanwhile, over in the Province, Arleen Foster and the DUP reminding us all what Loyalist Unionists are all about. No policies, just make sure the DUP stay in charge- just like their Scottish cousins:-

“In her speech, Mrs Foster said all the recent polling suggested it would be “neck-and-neck” between her party and Sinn Féin.
She attacked Ulster Unionist leader Mike Nesbitt for saying he would be giving his second preference vote to the SDLP, calling the move “sad and shameful”.
“I know other parties don’t like us saying it, but the reality is that every vote for another unionist party is a vote which is lost in the battle to make sure that Sinn Féin does not win this election,” she said.
Mrs Foster’s 10 reasons for opposing such an outcome included claims that it would:
Give Sinn Féin an excuse to use it as justification to call for a border poll
Make devolution harder to restore
Threaten economic recovery by undermining the prospects for a reduction in corporation tax
Allow Sinn Féin to take the justice ministry; and it would lead to a “sectarian abuse of power”
She concluded: “It would give Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin a hugely significant worldwide propaganda boost just months after nationalism’s worst election since 1993 and would undermine the unionist confidence which is being rebuilt after so many years in decline.
“And finally, it would, of course, give Sinn Féin the right to nominate a first minister – our job is to make sure that does not happen.”

The BBC noted Mrs Foster’s speech contained 31 mentions of Sinn Féin, 12 of its president Gerry Adams and just one of its new northern leader, Michelle O’Neill.

Theresa May and Arleen Foster, allies in the Unionist cause.

shiregirl

Clapper57 says:
20 February, 2017 at 2:49 pm
@Shiregirl

“I’ve time for sensibledave as he is affable”

Shiregirl, AFFABLE ?..No…LAUGHABLE…Yes….AFFABLE….No.

Sorry could not resist, absolutely no offense meant to you…have a good day.

None taken Clapper57 🙂

I do, however take umbrage at Pete:
20 February, 2017 at 1:15 pm

“It’s also interesting how often the regulars post on here and the amount of time they are able to devote.
Makes you wonder???????”

Makes you wonder what? Are you stalking the site doing a time and motion on the regulars? Being a regular contributor doesn’t equate to indolence. What it does show is people from many different backgrounds coming together with devotion and passion for Independence. Come and join us!

Rock

Another brilliant exposure by the Rev. Stuart Campbell.

Yet we have a prominent poster with the following view:

heedtracker:

“Rock, whatever you’re up to on WoS, listen up, the author of Wings over Scotland is not the messiah and he’s not going to win ref 2.”

Proud Cybernat

Backshift, Rock?

Stoker

Today’s WOS archive links now showing over on O/T.

Clootie

Sorry Macart!

I cannot let 2 Trolls leave the implication hanging that Scotland would be poorer for a few years.

Why would it be poorer? Is this the mythical spreadsheet of unionist “experts” being rolled out again. Every one of these experts uses the mini-UK model. They all allocate debt without assets. They all give absurd trade costs / borrowing rates etc etc.

Take defence as one example. For far less than our current “share allocation” we could have a stronger convential force which met the needs of a maritime nation. The defence force would live in Scotland and spend their money in Scotland. The bases would draw work into the area.

So for less money we can do more of what a maritime nation needs AND leverage local growth by service families living in Scotland.
…the downside being we cannot sit at the BigBoy Nuke table.

I’ll let the Trolls argue against renewable energy supporting steel manufacturing or an Oil & Gas fund. They can pretend that Tourism/Whisky/Food/Finance doesn’t exist but we know it does.

I see nothing but growth for Scotland. More importantly it will be a significant growth period as regard a fairer society.

All we need do is wrench Westminster greedy fingers from our financial levers.

bugsbunny

K1@4.35pm,

Looking at that clip of Osbourne I can honestly say he’s on the tail end of taking downers. He’s away with the fairies. I wouldn’t trust him to run a bath in that state, never mind the economy. I’d no idea he’s an addict. He’s off his tits, on barbiturates of some sorts by the look of it. F**king hell.

Dr Jim

The Trolls are getting really loud now like wee cartoon bubbles of dialogue jumping off the page
They’ll be shouting see ye at 4 next, well it was 4 when I was at school, now I’m just a sponging layabout 68 year old pensioner who refuses to go out and pick fruit for a living like what the patriotic Unionists would do in my position

Even though my profession and job experience was not as a MD I am however tempted to take up the governments kind offer of retraining me to be a surgeon or physicist along with bricklayers and hod carriers seeing as how all the foreign Medics are going to leave PDQ and my piano playing skills will no doubt come in handy for that, even though my fingers are a tad arthritic but that may be a bonus in surgery for the older folk making killing them off excusable and I can’t do a worse job of it than a retrained brickie (but that would only happen if I lived in the new improved post Brickbat Independent England)

Ah Yoons, They did a stupid thing they voted a stupid way and now they’re stupidly defending their stupidity with stupid arguments
And these are the same folk who constantly call Scottish people stupid

I am so looking forward to winning Independence to hear the invented crap they’re going to come up with then

ScottieDog

@Pete
“We will need to accept reductions in public expenditure….”

A common sign that someone has no understanding of macroeconomics.
At the aggregate level Spending EQUALS income. Capitalism relies on sales.

The low spending gap (low deficit) of London and the SE might just have something to do with certain bailouts pumping up pay and bonuses in the financial sector. Higher income means higher tax revenue to govt.

Next time you think of how to tackle a country’s large deficit think of what you do when your car encounters a skid. The intuitive answer is not always the correct one.

Now I’ll away back to my Bucky and Jeremy Kyle…

K1

Think he was ‘tripping’ bugsbunny…

K1

Mind in get yer face paint oan tae Scottiedog…don’t be lettin’ the side doon. 😉

bugsbunny

Dr Jim,

Did you see that clip that K1 gave us of George Osbourne? What’s your professional diagnosis? I think he’s tranqed on something? He’s spaced out.

heedtracker

Rock says:
20 February, 2017 at 5:10 pm
Another brilliant exposure by the Rev. Stuart Campbell.

Yet we have a prominent poster with the following view:

heedtracker:

Perspective you mad old scroat.

link to snp.org

Social justice was at the heart of the 2014 independence referendum debate.

To harness this enthusiasm for change, the SNP in government has led a conversation on how we can use the powers of the Scottish Parliament – and the limited new powers that are on their way – to tackle poverty and create genuine equality of opportunity.

Earlier this year the Scottish Government launched the Fairer Scotland Action Plan, which sets out five ambitions for 2030 and 50 actions to build a fairer country.

bugsbunny

K1,

I think he’s on that big a trip, he’s been to the Moon and back. He’s certainly “spaced”.

galamcennalath

Dorothy Devine says:

I hope you read the last bit of my comment!

I did and agreed with you.

My main point was the extent to which that contrasts with Brexit, where the rosy picture painted about how wonderful iEngland will be is shameless.

That aside, Leave voters have all sorts of little notions about what they think Brexit will deliver for them. My guess is they will get absolutely none of what they expect!

CameronB Brodie

Rock
A spirit of inclusion should not be seen as providing a space for divisive actions. What you trying to achieve bud?

CameronB Brodie

bugsbunny
I thought it was general knowledge that he’s a fan of the marching powder. If so, he’ll need to take the edge off somehow.

heraldnomore

Gosh is it Paper Scissors Bed time already?

yesindyref2

@Socrates MacSporran
Thanks. That’s the reason though for my disclaimer “(albeit GVA not GDP)” – because the figures don’t exactly match.

GVA is Gross Value Added, another one used at times is GNI – Gross National Income, and even GNP – Gross National Product. All have different mechanics to try to represent basically the worth of a country, and have different uses. GNI for instance is used to calculate EU member state contributions.

But even GDP has different methodology and can give different values, so comparing the GDP of Scotland against that of the Pitcairn Islands might not be straightforward!

GDP though is by far the most common method of comparing economies, and it’s the one most economists use.

As they say, take 5 economists and they’ll give you 6 different opinions.

K1

Trump’s state visit debating right now live…our guys are on fire!

This is the only link I can find for this as it’s been held In a room of the westminster parly:

link to theguardian.com

heedtracker

CameronB Brodie says:
20 February, 2017 at 6:00 pm
Rock
A spirit of inclusion should not be seen as providing a space for divisive actions. What you trying to achieve bud?

He would like WoS commenting to switch from commenting about Scottish democracy and follow him of the yoon cliff of btl doom, like lemmings, while the creep stands and watches. Brilliant.

Jumping off a cliff like lemmings Cameron, actually stems from the famous tory Lord Rupert Lemmings, who became famous for jumping off cliffs. Wonderful class, our Lords and betters.

Dan Huil

It can only be a good thing when britnats are reduced to regurgitating comments from people like McWilliams and Osborne.

Project Fear Vomit: it’s all britnats have.

Macart

@Clootie

More a case of general advice for the less forthcoming reader. If you want to enjoy a thread, look for the names you’re comfy with kinda thing. 🙂

On the general spend issue. Before policy one, there’ll be no more notional UK debt share (dependent on negotiated settlement). No more attributed share of UK foreign policy spend. No more attributed share of UK infrastructure projects, Westminster expenses or UK borrowing and of course a restructuring of defence spend minus share of Trident 2. Not to mention a full accounting of tax and spend fully accredited to a Scottish exchequer.

No more Extra Reggio and no more product tax credited to the UK exchequer because the product leaves these islands from an English port.

Before policy ONE of a future independent Scottish government.

Rock

CameronB Brodie,

“Rock
A spirit of inclusion should not be seen as providing a space for divisive actions. What you trying to achieve bud?”

Exposing those with agendas of their own who insult anyone who doesn’t agree with their views and have little faith in this blog and its author.

Not even the SNP comes anywhere near exposing unionist hypocrisy and lies as the Rev. Stuart Campbell, as seen again in this article.

The reason why he is hated so much by the forces that be.

On an article about these threats (“The smell of fear”), I repeated a point I had made a few months before the referendum about his safety.

For which I was called a “Dickhead” and the Rev. equated with any odd Yes voter.

Rock,

“For the sake of Scottish independence, the Rev. Stuart Campbell should move to a secret location outside the UK very quickly.”

heedtracker:

“Maybe every YES voter should do that Rock. Dickhead.”

“Rock, whatever you’re up to on WoS, listen up, the author of Wings over Scotland is not the messiah and he’s not going to win ref 2.”

“Divisive actions” are cause by the likes of “heedtracker” butting in with their usual waffle in response to serious points.

Brian Doonthetoon

Hi bugsbunny at 5:22 pm.

You typed, re Osborne,
“I wouldn’t trust him to run a bath in that state, never mind the economy.”

Run a bath? He couldn’t even dress himself properly that morning! (His ‘Jeeves’ must have been on a day off.) Did you spot the state of the right collar of his shirt?

yesindyref2

@Macart
Yes I agree. If any actual points are made, they do need answering, but it’s clear that the process of disruption is accelerating, it’s been happening in the Herald for some time, and also in The National. I think the latter suffered a bit because of its facebook login, where its other login didn’t seem to work. It’s all about supression and devaluation. The Scotsman is long gone and beyond redemtption below the line. One technique is to smother sensible postings with getting the focus on one individual, rather than the topic of the article – or any topic for that matter.

It’s good though – as many have said it shows the desperation that is going through the declining Unionist camp – as indeed do the Times and Express articles based on the mutterings of an ignorant clown.

heedtracker

link to facebook.com

If you’re on facebook, SNP MP’s currently holding forth on Trump’s crass state Westminster visit. Its rather good too.

Rock

heedtracker,

“Perspective you mad old scroat.

link to snp.org

Social justice was at the heart of the 2014 independence referendum debate.

To harness this enthusiasm for change, the SNP in government has led a conversation on how we can use the powers of the Scottish Parliament – and the limited new powers that are on their way – to tackle poverty and create genuine equality of opportunity.

Earlier this year the Scottish Government launched the Fairer Scotland Action Plan, which sets out five ambitions for 2030 and 50 actions to build a fairer country.”

What has all that to do with your point which I am challenging?

“Rock, whatever you’re up to on WoS, listen up, the author of Wings over Scotland is not the messiah and he’s not going to win ref 2.”

yesindyref2

Here’s a resource still going after all these years, worth looking at if anyone doesn’t know about it. He’s YES, posts occasionally.

link to siliconglen.scot

heedtracker

What has all that to do with your point which I am challenging?

Everything you mad old scroat.

Or, where do you stand on this issue today?

link to snp.org

Sandy

OT

Take a look at the letters page P&J if you can. A missive from a certain Jim Bayne. “Tory policies that benefitted Scotland. Aren’t we Scots being ungrateful
Is it tongue-in-cheek or is he a bit deranged?

Macart

@Yesindyref2

Pretty much nailed it.

Best advice for readers is to look for that familiar name/face. You see a name you associate with bad juju, then walk on by. Don’t read them and upset yourself. Move on to what you want to read.

Reading is meant to be an enjoyable and informative experience and there are some bonny budding writers to be found in these threads. Experts in many fields and disciplines to learn from and enjoy friendly banter along the way.

We don’t need to spoil our day by reading from those who are here to cause a stink.

Jamie Arriere

OT

A lot of Yoons on social media pumping up the cancer-deprivation report by MacMillan to bash the SNP as usual.

So, had a read of the report itself to see what degree of inequality in survival rates to see what the extent of the ‘gap’ is – which anybody would expect to exist as people in more deprived areas & on lower incomes cannot afford the diets, lifestyle choices which might help them avoid & survive cancer.

Anyway, this stat in the Introduction jumped out:

Of all cancers diagnosed in the five year period 2010-2014, 21.3% were in the most deprived quintile, so marginally higher than might be expected. However, for the same period, the proportion of deaths for the most deprived quintile was 23.6%.

So, in the most deprived quintile (bottom 20%), accounts for 21.3% of cases & 23.6% of deaths. If it were 20% then deprivation would not be a statistical factor.

OK, so there may be variances between geographical areas & between different types of cancer, but overall I expected a bigger difference between deprived quintiles to warrant the Yoon bellyaching & front page headlines.

link to macmillan.org.uk

see Cancer Survival and Deprivation Technical Report [pdf]

Graeme Doig

They’ve backed themselves into a project fear corner. There’s not much left for them to offer us since we have the mostest devolvedest parliament ever already.

The question is, have they already crossed the line between trying to incite fear and actually looking like complete zoomers? I do know they’ll keep it going to the bitter end.

CameronB Brodie

Rock and Heedtracker
Thanks for stating your cases, I’m not getting drawn in to taking sides. One observation though, it does take two to tango.

Gotan Project – Diferente
link to youtube.com

Iain More

So the right wing Yoon nutjobs are going to get loads of notes this week to snort their preferred narcotic and with maybe enough notes left over to smack some woman whilst they are at it on behalf of our Lords and Master in London. Knighthoodery can be too far behind then. Just another week in the nut house that is UKOK.

heedtracker

CameronB Brodie says:
20 February, 2017 at 7:20 pm
Rock and Heedtracker
Thanks for stating your cases, I’m not getting drawn in to taking sides. One observation though, it does take two to tango.

I love the tango. But you see the tory frustration, at the Scots, what wont start voting as they keep ragin at us, Express, Heil Torygraph, BBC Scotland etc

Graun Sunday, England loves planet toryboy and all that lovely austerity, which has only made the rich, richer. Its an English thing.

Labour
Observer Opinium politics polls
Tories widen lead over Labour to 13 points in new poll
Observer/Opinium survey shows support for Conservative party at 40% against 27% for Labour, with Jeremy Corbyn’s approval rating at 17%

The Tories have opened up a 13-point lead over Labour, according to a poll for The Observer that suggests Jeremy Corbyn’s party has been losing support ahead of next week’s two crucial byelections.

An online survey of 2,004 UK adults, conducted between 14 and 16 February by Opinium Research finds 40% of voters now back the Conservatives, an increase of three percentage points since a similar poll was conducted at the end of January.

The Tories’ gains are at the expense of Labour, down three points to 27% since the previous poll.”

Two countries, two very different politics, one country reigns over t’other, happy and glorious.

No wonder a scroat like Rock is a tad grouchier than usual

robertknight

O/T

AP reports that USA VP Pence’s visit to EU officials in Brussels showed the EU flag next to the flag of the USA, but the version of the Stars’n’Stripes on display had 51 stars instead of 50.

Do EU officials share the same view as many here that a UK outside the EU and sucking up to Don-Don will simply morph into the 51st State?

Does PM Mayhem already own such a flag and is waiting for the triggering of Article 50 to fly it above no.10?

We must be told!

CameronB Brodie

heedtracker
Stirring scroat. 😀

bugsbunny

BrianDoontheToon@6.54pm,

Yes, I noticed that. I bet they were mochade (sp). Just as dirty as his underpants probably.

RobertKnight@7.37pm,

The official confederate flag was the southern cross on a white flag with a red stripe furthest from the pole. It was called the bloody banner. That would look good flying next to the “Bloody Apron”. The Butchers variety, of course. Both have a history of slavery and oppression.

heedtracker

Graun/Observer thing on Slab collapse, Saturday not Sunday , its interesting in that Scots and English are clearly voting completely differently, but that UK for the Graun means England again, when it clearly does not. Its not propaganda, more complete bullshit,

link to archive.is

An online survey of 2,004 UK adults, conducted between 14 and 16 February by Opinium Research finds 40% of voters now back the Conservatives, an increase of three percentage points since a similar poll was conducted at the end of January.
The Tories’ gains are at the expense of Labour, down three points to 27% since the previous poll.”

Graun links to pollsters,

Results have been weighted to nationally representative criteria. Full data tables and results are available here.

Here means here, try finding it

link to opinium.co.uk

heedtracker

Found it! “Other” means SNP, or Green maybe. Its nice that they say FibDEm and UKIP though.

link to opinium.co.uk

The sample is defined from pre-collected registration data containing gender, age (18-34, 35-54, and 55+) and region (North East, North West, Yorkshire and Humberside, East Midlands, West Midlands, East of England, London, South East, South West, Wales, and Scotland) to match the latest published ONS figures

heedtracker

link to opinium.co.uk

The previous Graun pollsters polling, on UK leaders, who have they left out completely, yup, anyone SNP.

CameronB Brodie

The American Civil War and it’s impact on Anglo-American relations, may shed light on contemporary actors and their actions. As can be expected, the British Establishment generally sided with the Confederate slavers. After all, the British Empire was largely built on the back of slavery. Leopards don’t generally change their spots, so even if social attitudes change underlying institutional philosophies persist.

Attitudes towards the North and South helped to inform British policy towards America. These views often differed according to social class and from region to region. Historians continue to debate the nature and importance of these divisions. It is usually argued that the British ruling and middle classes took the view that Southern society owed much to British aristocratic and gentlemanly manners and outlook, while the North represented industrial competition with Britain, and remained a bastion of Yankee independence, forever revelling in its overthrow of British rule in the 1770s and 1780s. Those giving their support to the Southern states feared Northern industrial competition and saw widespread democracy as a source of political breakdown and civil strife.

In contrast, radicals and the lower-middle and working classes firmly supported the democratic, anti-slavery, industrialised North. The Emancipation Proclamation of 1862 helped to galvanise support of the Union among many in Britain, confirming the war as a campaign for democracy and against slavery. The North and the black American population was also conceived in a more sympathetic light, one that drew its energy from the enormous popularity of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s Uncle Tom’s Cabin: or, Life Amongst the Lowly (1852). Many thousands of copies were sold in the Britain, and the anti-slavery novel also inspired a range of songs, poems, plays and paintings.

link to bl.uk

heedtracker

Ultimately Cameron,

CameronB Brodie says:
20 February, 2017 at 7:48 pm
heedtracker
Stirring scroat. ?

What I’m labouring my point away at this evening is, if a mad old scroat’s on WoS btl, like Rock wanting to chat about anything other than Scottish democracy, look at what likes of The Graun are up to, along with their honest and noble pollster company, also completely blacking out anything and anyone SNP with, “other”?

Its more than likely than Graun are specifically asked or specifically offered, poll data that really should include the third biggest UK party, but those sneaky creeps are also saying, no thanks, black out anything SNP and Scottish democracy.

Thepnr

This nutty “professor” seems to have relied on this one story since 1999 to get himself and his dubious think tank CEBR in the news and the media keep repeating it.

There have been links to a couple of additional articles on Wings twitter, so we have 1999, 2001, 2003, 2011 and now 2017. I’m sure if you looked hard enough you’ll probably find that he has said it every year at least since 1999, might just not have been reported.

Glad to see some journalists at least back in the earlier reports found the CEBR report dubious. Most think tank reports in my view are highly dubious.

What exactly is a think tank anyway?

What type of person is employed/part of a think tank?

How reliable are their forecasts?

Who pays for them to produce their reports?

Who benefits from these reports?

I’m pretty sure that everybody who takes the time to come and read Wings can work out all the answers to these questions by themselves.

I don’t really see any think tanks as being a problem, the real problem is that there rubbish research is reported as gospel truth by the media. Sunday times does the story yesterday and they all jump on the bandwagon today.

Absolutely pathetic it is. Fortunately I believe these tactics are nearing the end of their useful life and are having less and less effect on the majority of people.

The Tories and leader May would be doomed in Scotland without this media support. Boycott their newspapers and don’t pay the telly tax. There are plenty more options for entertainment on the telly that are legal and cheaper than paying the license.

You can still listen to Kaye with an E legally without a license if that’s your want 🙂