An Act Of Union
Posted on
January 14, 2017 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Till death do us, errr, who dropped that one?
Does anyone know of any reason. . .?
Does anyone know of any reason . . .?
An Act of Union? It’s all it ever will be sadly.
Aunt Sally and Worzel Gummidge.
Has Aunt Sally got her fingers crossed? And i’m not even going to contemplate what old Worzels up to.
Please please call in the wedding planers.
And Jennifer Anniston. She’s really good at this reconciliation stuff.
This is so sad. Not in a comical way.
A union of donkeys (that can barely stand one another lol). Two useless duds deserving of one another. Not an ounce of charisma or credibility between them.
Brexit a complete, unfolding disaster, and now the English NHS in meltdown. Yet still Labour cannot seem to capitalise. A mixture of gross incompetence, selfishness and cowardice. What attracts such bad characters to the Labour Party?
They are well and truly finished.
An Act Of Union?
Jeezo! The lengths some folk will go for a bit of ermine, eh!
Actually, do you know what.
This is way beyond a very tired joke.
You lot are paid ALOT of money by the tax payer to do a VERY important job and you have failed dismally for a very long time.
Get it together! Do your job! Get the facts! The real facts, not the pretendy BUM ones. And fucking do the job your are paid to do!!!
Who sits where on the top table should be interesting. And who would you trust to be the official food taster?
Dianne Abbot as bridesmaid, Annas Sarwar as best man all closing up with GSTQ.
Ah, think I spot a few problems.
[…] Source: Wings Over Scotland An Act Of Union […]
One full fare,OAP concession please and a half.
…I think he is crushing her fingers. His face gives it away.
Strange how this union is more important than people, values and principles. The fact that Labour voters are switching to the Tories baffles me…but does not surprise me. New Labour was designed to attract Tories, they are just going home.
A nod’s as good as a wink. Ah said wink, get yer haun’ oot yer poaket!
Peace Always
Thing is, no matter what they do both of them will still end up happily ever after
Oh, BBC have investigated themselves over Trump calling them liars and purveyors of fake news and found themselves innocent……again
Phew! thank goodness we know who’s telling the truth now!
I’m convinced!
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive”
The blind leading the blind.
An inconceivable romance.she didn’t know anything and he had forgotten everything.
Lie and think of England.
Hades and Persephone
Ok the last one if for Greek geeks.
Ahem,momentarily disarmed,due to the skill of Mr Cairns,(wipes away snotters).
One full fare,OAP concession please and a half wit.
Ok political geeks, it’s just a new take on an old theme.
Hooker and spy, hooker and Chelsea shirt, an egg hater and a PM, all so passé
The fashion now if for incompatible coupling, DC had a bacon fetish, JC has ?
Andrew McLean:
Who made you “king of the Underworld” geeks indeed!
🙂
Peace Always
Very timely, Chris, on the day news broke of Dugdale’s separation from her partner. Neither her public not her private life seem to bring her any happiness. You get the impression she’s a person incapable of making the right decision.
Your weekend reading
Scottish emigrants make good: link to wp.me
La La Land made good or bad?: link to wp.me
Andrew McLean
I now pronounce you Edwina Mellor, JC, Still likes to ham it up!
Peace Always
A marriage made in heaven is one thing.
A marriage made in a Chris Cairns cartoon is one hell of a funny picture..
What of the issue from this embracing Union? Damien the Devil’s child or Jesus and the second coming (no giggling at the back!).
It’s oh so romantic. What a beautiful picture.
Love is a wonderful thing….
“‘Til (SLAB’s) Death do Us Part.”
Corbyn is obviously holding a ring in that pocket eh? Is that the joke! 🙂
Nah, just like Scotland and England now, clearly incompatible.
The reason divorce is so expensive?
It’s worth it.
Labour’s North British Branch Office Accounting Unit is dead.
This situation between Kez and Jez bodes well for those of a Scottish Independence persuasion. All the cards are falling nicely just now including the helpful encouragement card from EU chiefs.
All it will take now is a worst case Brexit scenario for Scotland and time. Nice cartoon Chris, you’ve captured the uneasy tension between them perfectly.
The joke is Corbyn is winking!
I said WINKING!
Some people ?
Ah I see what you did Chris, if you draw a line around each of the numpties it creates the letter ‘M’ and we all know ‘M’ stands for May the both of them’s real true love…. it’s a conspiracy I tell you!!
Who needs Dan Brown 🙂
Step aside for a new generation, fits them both. Which is predictably odd in this farce union.
@Galamcennalath 9.29
Spot on. Awkward bedfellows. Communication issues. Should go to counselling.
Seriously, though, I think JC is well past being of any use. The mess the Tories are making, he should be at the head of demos outside Downing Street.
Instead, he seems to be posted missing, or talking incomprehensible drivel.
Buckle in, folks.
Croompenstein…take a bow, post of the year so far.?
Great toon as always Chris.
Time for the divorce papers, to be filed.
Can any of them point to Scotland on the map?
Morning All!
We have something interesting to discuss! In previous threads, we discussed how the Brexit negotiations might go and, in particular, what cards does the UK have in terms of negotiating a new trade arrangement with the EU. Most here thought we have nothing to work with and will end up with a “punishment” deal from the EU. Unsurprisingly, I took issue with that.
I caught this, on The Spectator site, reporting what it expected to be in The Guardian today (I haven’t seen the papers today so I don’t know if it has happened)…..
“The Guardian has a very significant story on its front page tomorrow. It has obtained notes of a meeting that Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, had with senior MEPs this week. These notes show that Barnier told them that he wanted a ‘special’ deal that would guarantee access for the EU firms and countries to the City of London’s financial markets.
Interestingly, Barnier also said—according to The Guardian’s account—that ‘There will need to be work outside of the negotiation box … in order to avoid financial instability.” This suggests that Barnier shares Mark Carney’s view that there are financial stability risks for Europe if the EU cuts itself off from the City of London. Also, by framing the issue as one of financial stability and saying that it should be considered outside of the ‘negotiation box’, Barnier does appear to be providing a face-saving way for the EU to allow UK financial services continued access to the EU’s internal market post-Brexit.
…. you may recall that I said I was starting to feel more “bullish” about our ability to get a good deal on trade – I think this news is interesting and helpful in that context (helpful that is if you actually want the UK to have a good trade deal with the EU post Brexit).
It’s the blank backgound that is very telling, and london’s token socialist Jez is trying to break her fingers by the look of it! It is strange situation, where the labour branch in Scotland has no actual autonomy, yet they sit in Holyrood, supposedly representing Scotland.
When independence happens, what then? Do they still take their orders from their london masters? Daft question I know, but just what will their job be in Scotland? To be an effective, (lol I know) autonomous political party or not. At present, labour branch in Scotland seem devoid of any integrity, their only motivation being to do Scotland down at every turn.
Money and ermine, forget the people, no scruples.
Jeremy Corbyn repeatedly referred to “regions” when asked about Scotland in his BBC interview this week. Its weird how he just doesn’t seem to understand Scottish politics. Even most of the Scottish Unionists refer to Scotland as a nation.
I can’t understand how he supports Irish independence but not Scottish independence.
It is indeed an act. Act united. Act concerned.Act autonomous .Act in our narrow self interest. Act English.
This Union has too many Acts already. No room for any more actors.
What a duplicious way of trying to put indy out of reach perpetually. I loathe these people.
Looks like nonsense dave is doing the weekend shift. Ignore, you can’t get the time back by pandering to those trying to steer intelligent debate here, to their own right wing agenda.
…. you may recall that I said I was starting to feel more “bullish” about our ability to get a good deal on trade –
Nice to see you try and bullshit Scots that your Brexit abyss is just a debate and trade negotiation sensible. Brexit is infinitely more important than the price of a new Merc to wealthy commuters in the south east of teamGB sensible. Brexit is a catastrophic loss to a country like Scotland, let alone England and all cooked up by a bunch of rich toryboy reprobates.
So whatever clever dick shyste you think you can pull on your Scotland region of greater England today sensibledave, is rather pathetic really.
What a picture. A couple of Union Jack mugs could have been added. Oh wait …
aldo_macb :
For Labour its all about their ‘Island of Britain you see’
No distinction – the Country is ‘Britain’ and for North British Labour the country is ‘Scotland’ (which is a region of the Bigger Country ‘Britain’ you see) .. how clever they are.
Scottish people – No offence taken
Over 800 attending the build for Scotland meeting. Hall full.
BBC will be interested.
A Dan Brown Da Vinci code enigma? Clasping hands the two sad figures form a giant ‘M’; representing Momentum?
Has Kezia gone over to the Dark Side?
I see wee Murray makes the ‘papers today, voting with his fellow Tories against the SNP EU proposals on Scottish Government input on Brexit negotiations.
And some clown was going on about a ‘one party state’ in Scotland the other day.
This wee man represents nobody but his own self interest and English Establishment interests.
He gives not a flying eff for his constituents and the people of Scotland, yet his ba’ face is given prominence on HS today.
There a name for Scots born Anglos like him, but it’s before the 9.00 pm watershed.
Great as usual, Cairns.
Aye Chris, Act of Union right enough but I don’t think either of them two will be in for a BAFTA.
those two
Earlier someone wanted to know what Corby had in his pocket?
Olde English proverb: Hole in pocket, feel cocky all day.
Fred. re ring.
That’s his special Authority one that he’s fumbling for, I think.
One of the genetic diversity challenged hands them out like sweeties, in the privy to boot.
re ‘joke’. Only Chris knows what’s really going on in that mind. 😉 ‘Transcends mere humour’. So he says.
Kez looks desperate for some BBC attention. JC looks like he’s had too much.
I believe I heard Hillary Benn on Radio Scotland this morning talking about Brexit and the devolved Nations. He went on to say the negotiate over Brexit would be by one country. This is the mindset of Unionists. Did anyone else pick up on what Benn was saying about one country?
I’m just surprised Jeremy knew there was an old Act of Union.
Did anyone else pick up on what Benn was saying about one country?
UK zone is a red and blue tory loony bin. Teresa is currently in New Zealand, pleading with them for an extra special super duper trade UK/NZ trade deal.
Its not just the fact that the UK dumped all kinds of NZ trade to join the EU, NZ has a population one million less than Teresa’s Scotland region of greater England.
If mad old tory Teresa can get an extra special super duper UK/NZ deal, 4.5 million people, massed ranks of tory BBC led press will be hysterical with joy, at no deal trading with 500+ million Europeans.
“In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king”.
Poor Kezia lost her sight a long time ago and, alas, the single eye resides in Westminster.
Jim Arnott
If the EU decides to confer/continue EU citizenship rights (right to travel, residency and work) on Scottish citizens (e.g. registered voters at time of conferment and their children) then there is nothing Westminster can do about that, it isn’t up to them.
heard Hilary Benn on Radio Shortbread talking about Brexit, Devolved nations would just have to dae whit they were telt once the Nation had decided whit they wir gan tae dae.
Is JC trying to hide a 2-finger gesture from KD?
@ starlaw – the BBC has mentione3d the SIC and added a link to the livestream
link to livestream.com
Is JC trying to hide a 2-finger gesture from KD?
He’s scoping Anas. Red toy Anas makes Kez look like Mao.
Chris Cairns:
Please excuse my ignorance, Chris, excellent depiction of characters. As has been said many times, we are lucky to have you on our side.
Peace Always
So Kezia’s engagment to Ms Riddle is canceled ( no other party involved ) or so the story went.
The Truth will out. Nice one Chris.
Not sure if this has been posted, – Live: Your guide to the Scottish Independence Convention conference
link to commonspace.scot
Look like it could be quite interesting.
Sorry, looks like it has.
Ha Ha.
Every bit as cohesive as the actual union.
Just what is it that makes Jezza so blind to Scotland?
Re the supreme court,I don’t see how they can throw out the Claim of Right.
Scotland has already voted to remain and they should not be able to over rule that.
The problem with the UK is that they make the rules up as they go along
So, Mother Theresa is off to speak to the Sheep Worriers; she will probably try to do a deal which will make New Zealand lamb cheaper for English consumers than Welsh or Scottish lamb.
She might have problems, however; many Kiwis whom I know have never forgiven the UK/England for the way it dumped NZ and the other Commonwealth countries in the rush to join Europe in the 1970s.
Oh that’s good.
Cracker Chris. 🙂
“In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.”
Poor Kezia lost her sight along time ago and the one-eyed man marches to Westminster’s drum.
Socrates MacSporran says:
14 January, 2017 at 11:46 am
So, Mother Theresa is off to speak to the Sheep Worriers; she will probably try to do a deal which will make New Zealand lamb cheaper for English consumers than Welsh or Scottish lamb.
Its the big the British are back! splash, giant union jacks, have a scotch, a Jag and bag pipers blasting away, behind the Brits, great Brits… Except NZ’s markets are Pacific rim, from OZ, south east Asia, Japan, Canada and all the way down the US west coast to south America.
l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Flivestream.com%2FIndependenceLive%2FSIC-BUILD%3Forigin%3Dstream_live%26mixpanel_id%3D1424dccc6d46c-03bbf05714b5f78-7e6a1335-13c680-1424dccc6d691%26acc_id%3D8993034%26medium%3Demail&h=vAQE6Oe22
More like a father dragging a naughty girl to be taught a lesson.
I see Sensible has come on duty to gloat that the EU will most likely buckle in the face of the mighty Britannic city of London.
For those that like to keep their powder dry, check their facts etc., here is the Reuters response, and Barniers response to be Inc misquoted, from a closed doors meeting.
Yoons, straws, clutching.
link to reuters.com
if they think NZ farmers are going to grub up their vineyards to go chasing sheep .. they are dreaming.
What exactly could Britain offer NZ that they don’t already have ?
heedtracker 10:28 am
You wrote: “Nice to see you try and bullshit Scots that your Brexit abyss is just a debate and trade negotiation sensible. Brexit is infinitely more important than the price of a new Merc to wealthy commuters in the south east of teamGB sensible. Brexit is a catastrophic loss to a country like Scotland, let alone England and all cooked up by a bunch of rich toryboy reprobates.
So whatever clever dick shyste you think you can pull on your Scotland region of greater England today sensibledave, is rather pathetic really.”
Hmmm! I note that you are not of good cheer today old chap! Your comments would indeed cut me to the quick and leave me scuttling for cover in embarrassment – had I actually voted to Leave!
Brexit means Brexit aparently and therefore Brexit we shall. Surely we (you and I) therefore want the best possible deal available? Stuff like the quote I detailed above surely helps us in those negotiations Heedy?
So far, if we dont have a tariff free deal with the EU …
1. We will save the value of our net contribution – say £8 to £10 Billion (and the EU will lose that much)
2. We will benefit from the value of the tariffs in our deficit of trade with the EU – say £290 minus £220 billion in 2015 (i.e.£70 billion) at say, 4% is £2.8 Billion (and the EU will lose that much)
3. In the major economies in the EU (Germany, France, etc) those governments could cause themselves a self inflicted slow down in their economies because (as you mentioned) the German Car market exports over 810,000 vehicles to us and the French Farmers and vineyards export billions of £s worth of products – and adding cost to those exports – only sends sales one way.
4. Now we have the potential for almost the exact opposite of our fears with respect to our Financial Services sector post Brexit (if its in a lefty, “Remoaner” rag like the Grudian, it must be true). Apparently the EU is very concerned that they wont have access to the City?!?!? Blow me down, for once, I didn’t spot that one coming.
Come on Heedy, surely both the UK and the EU, both doing well post Brexit, makes it easier to win another indyref as Scottish voters can rule out the fear of economic melt down if they vote the “wrong” way (whatever they think that is)?
Or, because you never think things through for yourself, and you wait to be told what to think by Ms Sturgeon, is it that you haven’t caught up on this stuff yet?
Yep, have long suspected that the Tories REAL brexit strategy is to do everything they can behind the scenes to bring down the entire EU. That would be the preferred outcome. Being outside the club is a problem, lets solve it by shutting down the club.
sensibledave says:
14 January, 2017 at 12:26 pm
heedtracker 10:28 am
More UKOK waffle sensible. Once again, trade aside, losing our EU membership and citizenship is a vastly greater loss than trade only.
Its not a surprise that you have latched on to trade as the core issue for us and its very much how our relentlessly hideous tory BBC led meeja is playing it too.
But you have won sensible, Scots have lost an extraordinary privilege for no actual reason, other than English low info, thick as shit xenophobia. And Scotland is stilled under total control of tory England, with the sneaky assistance of loyal Brits like last SLab MP Ian Murray MP and BBC gimps.
Also sensible “Come on Heedy, surely both the UK and the EU, both doing well post Brexit,”
All down to junked sterling and it hasn’t even begun.
Valerie 12:11 pm
‘Morning Valerie.
You wrote “Yoons, straws, clutching.”
Wrong on so many levels Valerie a) I am not a “Yoon” b) I actually want the UK (whether Scotland is in it or not) to be OK post Brexit, so I am looking for bargaining chips in the negotiations (once again, I didnt vote to leave – just over 60% of my fellow constituents in South Oxfordshire).
The point is Valerie, as the article you referenced goes on to report ……
“Both the UK and the EU will suffer,” Maltese Finance Minister Edward Scicluna said on Thursday as Malta took on the rotating chair of EU councils.
“We will lose that efficient center,” he told reporters, forecasting that many financial firms would relocate to various cities in the EU. “That will be a loss … The EU will suffer once services are fragmented. It will be longer term.”
…. by not doing a sensible trade deal, the EU risks damaging their economies in this way too.
Once again to you Valerie, and all others that are so “single issue” in their thinking, surely it is better for ordinary folk all across across the whole of the UK – if we can achieve a “good” Brexit? Surely you do not want the majority of your fellow country folk (i.e. in Scotland) to suffer by losing jobs, suffer financially – jst because you think that may help the cause for Independence?
Here, troops, take a trip down memory lane.
There’s a corker or two among this little lot.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Re: Hillary ‘Bomber’ Benn on Radio Scotland this morning talking about Brexit and the devolved Nations @ Jim Arnott says at 11:08 am.
The ‘one country’ bollocks is because Labour MPs on the Brexit Committee blocked a call to seek endorsement from the devolved nations parliaments on the final UK Govt. withdrawal deal from the EU.
Plaid Cymru’s Jonathan Edwards put the amendment forward and Joanna Cherry backed it (so did Liar Carmichael!).
Labour sided with the Tories (no surprise really when their ‘Glorious Union’ is involved).
BLiS only MP Ian Murray defended the move by saying “The nationalists were once again playing political games to score cheap points rather than adding anything constructive to the discussions about the most important decision for our country since WWII”
So Red & Blue Tories full steam ahead for Brexit Britatin and NI, Scotland & Wales are to go with what Westminster decides is best for Little England whether they want to or not.
Same as it ever was for the |Red Tories.
Tick, Tock towards May 2017 and further humiliation then anothe ‘listening excersie’ by Anas nae doot.
UK imploding,and Theresa has disappeared again with her Brutish Empire made begging bowl,
like a dog sniffing round looking for a buried bone that might have some meat still on it,
turning up at the Commonwealth door like Jack Nicholson in The Shining “Honey i`m home”
“remember us,we`re the folks that pillaged your country for a couple of hundred years and civilised you into Brutish values,”
as we see in Scotland the Brutish Empire and all it`s paraphernalia like Queens and flags and London bus is still a seller to the ignorant,
NZ voted to keep the butchers apron on their flag when they had the chance to define their country of the future instead of the blood soaked past.
@Valerie
Chuckle.
I did wonder, thanks for the link. City firms will probably find it increasingly hard to meet eqivalence requirements, as the UK’s intention is to reduce regulation to go back to the “Good old days” of casino banking, while the EU is pushing more to make it safer. The EU is also capping bonuses while anyone in the UK Gov who has anything to do with that is looking to reitre into a cushy City bonus and would probably prefer them to rise.
Valerie
Are the Scots that I know that have their homes in England, Wales and NI, and who are pro Scottish Independence, all wanting their friends to suffer and are secretly wishing them ill will whilst sharing a pint in the pub – because they believe it will aid their desire for Scottish Independence?
Apparently Brian Spanner is in the room at the SIC !!!
“What exactly could Britain offer NZ that they don’t already have ?”
Another chance to be dumped on a whim?
The Troll
Treat it the way the BBC treats good news in Scotland
Ignore it!
Chick McGregor says:
14 January, 2017 at 1:11 pm
“What exactly could Britain offer NZ that they don’t already have ?”
A vast supply of immigrants, often fleeing immigration into the UK, which is, on differing scales of self loathing and FUD, going to see the UK going up flames and bankrupt.
He’s a fucking idiot…please just let him piss on the lamp post and let him pass…no petting! (*stares hard at Heed). 🙂
Yes!
Are ye dancin’?
Are ye askin’?
Aye, I’m askin’
Aye, I’m dancin’
Take yer partners for the next dance..
It’s flip the pillow.
What’s up K1?
I have I seen you off too often?
I note that you are very good with the “dog whistle” “Me too” stuff – but you can’t actually debate a serious issue.
No matter, I am off out now and you can all sit in a metaphorical circle and agree with each other.
UK Bad
All non Scots are bad
All non Scots are Yoons
Everyone in England is rich
Everyone in England voted Leave
Everyone in England hates the SCots and wants to oppress them
Everyone in England battled and marched on behalf of the “better Together” campaign.
…. there you go. Now you can just write “yes, I agree ” in re2ponse to everything and you don’t have to think for yourself.
Have a great weekend.
LfI, where do they stand on this? If they are opposed to the goons in their party, then they will ultimately move to the current two independence parties or form their own.
There is no way they can accede to the yoonery of Kez and Jez.
Jez slaps down Kez and the branch is mute. Where is Gordo at this hour of need to extol the broad shoulders? What a shower!Jez’s Shadow SoSfS is not a Scottish MP! The branch is silent. Dysfunctional to the last. With one MP from Scotland, the slabbers must continue if nothing cataclysmic has happened. Weird folk.
@sensibledave says: 14 January, 2017 at 10:14 am:
“Morning All!”
Err! It is afternoon now sensibledave. You do know, don’t you, that this blog isn’t in real time?
But I digress.
” … We have something interesting to discuss!”
Err! No!
You mean you hope someone may discuss with you something you personally think to be interesting.
…In previous threads, we discussed how the Brexit negotiations might go”.
Well not exactly. You told us how you claimed they might go. Most who bother to read what you though told you that you were wrong.
” … and, in particular, what cards does the UK have in terms of negotiating a new trade arrangement with the EU.”
Well no, you claimed the UK had cards – most here know the UK has no cards.
… “The Guardian has a very significant story on its front page tomorrow.”.
Ach! sensibledave, Few here find anything the disgusting gutterpress rag that is the guardian has to say of the slightest interest.
There are a few really true interesting and proven facts that will surface in due course that will explode forever the totally imaginary opinions held by the self-opinionated Westminster cabal of unionist Little Englanders.
Here they are in stark detail that you cannot possibly deny.
The United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of only the 3 country Kingdom of England and the single country Kingdom of Scotland. The United Kingdom is thus a kingdom and has never been a unified or even an actual united country.
Go read the Treaty of Union, (and both individual Acts of Union), that the two kingdom’s parliaments passed and had ratified with the monarchy that wore both, (still then independent), kingdom’s crowns.
There is not a single mention of either of the words, “country”, or, “countries”, in the entire document and, as both signatory kingdoms were independent when they signed the Treaty of Union then the are obviously equally sovereign.
i.e. The United Kingdom is not a country – it is a bipartite union of kingdoms and thus the marriage is a United Kingdom and not a United Country. Think on this – if the countries of Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland no longer exist then neither does that of England.
In fact there is not even a legal parliament of the country of England
Thus there is no way that the United Kingdom can be regarded as a member country of the EU. It was and is a member State composed of two kingdoms.
It thus behoves the EU parliament to uphold its own rules, laws and regulations with those stark facts in mind.
The United Kingdom is a bipartite union of kingdoms and the recent referendum has exposed the two kingdoms voted quite clearly in a very different manner. The Scottish Kingdom has voted to remain an EU member state while the 3 country Kingdom of England plainly wants out of the EU.
The EU would be failing to uphold its own rules, regulations and laws if it did not properly represent the wishes of both kingdoms, and both kingdoms EU citizens, in regard to EU membership. If they do not then the EU claims of citizenship are rubbished as that is tantamount to admitting there is a built in inequality of EU citizenship.
I do not believe the European Parliament would be so stupid as to destroy itself in such a manner. If all EU citizens cannot be seen as equals the EU has lost its raison d’être.
Furthermore, as both kingdoms are equally sovereign, then neither, on their own, are legally the existing member state. It is arrogance in the extreme for the English to assume they, and only they, ere the legacy United Kingdom.
The facts are that the Westminster Parliament is legally the United Kingdom parliament but has been operating since devolution as if it were the parliament of the country of England and there is actually no such thing as a legal parliament of England.
It is extreme arrogance for England to assume to be the United Kingdom and to abuse their partner in the marriage between the two kingdoms as if the Kingdom of Scotland was just a possession of the Kingdom of England as Wales, (annexed by England in 1284), and Ireland, (annexed by England in 1542), actually are.
If the EU were to persist to treat the United Kingdom as a member country when the two component kingdoms are voting in opposition to each other then the EU would lose all credibility throughout the entire World’s governments.
The obvious way for the EU to act is to allow the kingdom that voted to leave to do so and for the kingdom that voted to remain to become the legacy member state. Anything else would be to chance the break-up of the EU.
Both the EU’s member states and EU non-members would, of necessity, lose trust in the EU.
The rules and laws of EU citizenship apply to both the member states and to all individual EU citizens. The EU simply cannot justify ignoring the wishes of the Scottish EU citizens to please one equally sovereign Kingdom of the UnitedKingdom.
If “spanner” was at the Conference today could we get a wee photograph? His Twitter account doesn’t give him credit!
John E at 13:43
Gordon is waiting for his peerage so he can join, Alastair, two George’s, John, Jack, Mick, Tom and every other so called socialist from Scottish labour who Is fleecing the public and being an affront to democracy by sitting in the lords with their tory pals.
Is there a labour politican previously with a seat in Scotland who has not taken up an appointed position when kicked out or having left one of the two parliaments?
Give the May Tories a chance down in NZ.
We might get good rates on film locations for
Lord of the Rings 4-40, a BOGGOF deal on
Kiwi Fruit, and Lamb that was fresh before it
Started a 12,000 mile journey.
The Lamb should taste better than that locally
produced stuff that came about with the Highland
Clearances.?
Effijy says:
NZ produce is high quality and uncontamiated.
What worries me is US food through a trade deal. Much of what they produce is classed as unfit for human consumption by the EU because of nasty chemical and livestock drug use.
Livestream back on with Pat Kane SIC:
link to livestream.com
Great Cartoon as ever Chris.
Do I perceive a crossing of fingers as Kezia is wishing the “Old Weirdo” would just leave her alone and not drag her into his hopeless abyss?
You see folks, that’s how Sensible Dave works. Bold statements without checking the facts. The negotiator in question Mr Barnier later issued a statement clarifying what he meant. He is alluding to the fact that actually the financial deal would require special monitoring rather than special treatment.Different eh ?
Never trust a Yoon !!
Great as usual Chris,
Although I despise Ms Dudgale because of her inability to act and work like a serious politician, I genuinely feel sorry for her regarding the news on her private life, maybe it’s the pressure from the political bubble, had she had any vision for Scotland at the last Indy Ref maybe she could have grown in political stature rather than being the conservatives waitress.
Because of her, she has made “Ruth, Ruth tell the truth” credible to some voters!!
You don’t ‘do’ debate…patronising and derogatory remarks are what you consistently fall back on and most of all you are disengenuous, imagine having the two faced gaul to write ‘Have a great weekend’ when your comment to me was laced with such obnoxious and utterly unfounded characterisations of those who write btl on here?
You ‘don’t think for yourself’ Davey…you regurgitate what you have been taught from your own background and speaking of ‘dog whistle’ you’re the epitome of a little Englander spouting what your daily rags have ‘taught you’ to think for generations. There’s a good boy…well done you, you did everything your were ‘supposed’ to do and ‘achieved’ what exactly? A profound disdain for those who do not ‘think’ as you do…and a snobbish condescension that’s worthy of a monty python sketch.
Ye may huv money in yer bank but ye’ve nae kindness in yer heart.
Awa ye go’in bile yer heid ya big dafty.
Watching Livestream Capella, thanx for that, good stuff. Torrance very strange lookin guy n no clappin! 🙂
Why on earth does David “Flounce off” Torrance bother turning up at these do’s when everybody knows he’ll write the same pish as he did last week but in a different order
He could have written his nonsense yesterday and it would be the same
I remember seeing him and others at the Hydro sniggering at the back like the wee troll he is when the FM was speaking but trying not to get caught like a wee snotty kid in class
in case a big boy slapped him or somebody’s Mammy which would have been funnier
Somebody’s Mammy might still slap him
I live in hope of that entertaiment
Torrance very strange lookin guy n no clappin!
Hold on!! could Torrance be Spanner?
mmmmm the old mild mannered janitor stuff….
When you hold this image up to a mirror,you Davidson and May…how weird is that.
:-j
Okay Davey boy…this is what you were all excited about earlier, yes?
‘The Guardian has a very significant story on its front page tomorrow. It has obtained notes of a meeting that Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, had with senior MEPs this week. These notes show that Barnier told them that he wanted a ‘special’ deal that would guarantee access for the EU firms and countries to the City of London’s financial markets.
Interestingly, Barnier also said—according to The Guardian’s account—that ‘There will need to be work outside of the negotiation box … in order to avoid financial instability.” This suggests that Barnier shares Mark Carney’s view that there are financial stability risks for Europe if the EU cuts itself off from the City of London. Also, by framing the issue as one of financial stability and saying that it should be considered outside of the ‘negotiation box’, Barnier does appear to be providing a face-saving way for the EU to allow UK financial services continued access to the EU’s internal market post-Brexit.’
This is actually the ‘reality’ of what Mr Barnier stated:
‘Responding to a report in the Guardian which said he had told EU lawmakers that he wanted a special deal to maintain EU firms’ access to the City of London, Barnier tweeted: “When asked on equivalence I said: EU would need special vigilance on financial stability risk, not special deal to access the City.”
So not this: ‘…suggests that Barnier shares Mark Carney’s view that there are financial stability risks for Europe if the EU cuts itself off from the City of London’.
But certainly this: ‘An EU spokesman said the Guardian report did “not correctly reflect” Barnier’s comments to a closed door meeting with members of the European Parliament last week.’
Has taken place.
The point Mr Barnier was making was related to ‘equivalent’ in rigour’ in terms of ‘stability’ Davey boy:
‘EU officials said the point Barnier was making when asked about Brussels’ willingness after Brexit to recognize British financial regulations as “equivalent” in rigor to those of the EU was that, as a lot of EU business was likely to still pass through the City, EU equivalence rules would have to be much more tightly drafted compared to those for smaller centers.’
The ‘rules’ on ‘equivalence’ have to more ‘tightly drafted’ in relation to London Davey boy.
There has been ‘misquoted’ aspects to Mr Barnier’s comments Davey boy reported in the Guardian article you were ‘creaming yourself over…let me help you out on the ‘special deal’ ‘you’ swallowed and regurgitated from that stupid rag:
‘EU officials said Barnier, a Frenchman who ran EU financial services policy, was not speaking of a “special deal” to limit the impact of Brexit on financial services trade between Britain and the EU but rather emphasizing that Brussels would have to take special care not to ignore stability risks in London.’
The essence of what Mr Barnier’s comments relate is cross border ‘equivalence’ in terms of maintaining ‘stability’ across all the financial service markets in the EU davey boy because:
‘The extent of such equivalence agreements has been a major concern for British-based banks wanting continued access to the EU market.’ ‘
Other EU governments have said they will welcome financial firms moving out of London and say Britain’s economy and its big services sector must pay a price for Brexit so that it does not inspire voters in other countries to follow suit.
Sure this is true:
‘EU ministers and officials acknowledge that damage to London’s global financial center caused by Brexit will hurt not only Britain but the other 27 EU states.’
This is also true:
“Both the UK and the EU will suffer,” Maltese Finance Minister Edward Scicluna said on Thursday as Malta took on the rotating chair of EU councils.
“We will lose that efficient center,” he told reporters, forecasting that many financial firms would relocate to various cities in the EU. “That will be a loss … The EU will suffer once services are fragmented. It will be longer term.”
But this is the reality:
Nonetheless, Scicluna said, the signs of banks and other City firms preparing to move operations to other parts of the EU amid uncertainty about the terms of Brexit showed that the immediate cost was much greater for Britain.
So there ye have it Davey boy. I believe this was your last sentence on that ‘fake news’ you were punting earlier on here:
‘…. you may recall that I said I was starting to feel more “bullish” about our ability to get a good deal on trade – I think this news is interesting and helpful in that context (helpful that is if you actually want the UK to have a good trade deal with the EU post Brexit).’
Do try to read more widely dear boy…it’s embarrassing watchin’ your clown show, we have sufficient numbers within our own polity and political punditry to amuse ourselves with without having to debunk your pish as well.
Oh..here’s the ‘source’ Davey boy:
link to reuters.com
Theresa May is not in New Zealand.
Her meeting with the New Zealand Prime Minister the other day took place in Downing Street.
Liam Fox has been, or is going to be,dispatched to New Zealand to discuss trade etc.
@K1,
Zinger.
Sensibledave gets everything back to front and totally scrambled which is why he evade binless.
He’s got you darting left and right, jumping up and down. Why bother?
Just ignore the fucking arse else he will have some of you jumping through hoops next.
That was superb, the Wee Blue Book got a mention & Elaine C a class act. Spanner apparently hiding in the hall, wonder if it’s Torrance?
Hear! Hear!
It’s one thing to ‘ignore’ ‘him’ Thpnr and ah advocate that ‘strongly’ it’s quite another to ‘ignore’ and not debunk the pish he actually spouted as an opening gambit on this thread? If left uncorrected on ‘of all places’ Wings…we wouldn’t be honouring the Rev’s ‘teachings’ when it comes to misinformed msm pish that people ‘base’ their views on.
On this ‘fake news’ it was worth ‘crossing swords’, it’s picking ‘our’ battles that’s key and each to his own in that regard, in terms of where each individual’s strength’s lie in tackling his pish on any given occasion.
The Guardian just got ‘telt’ by Mr Barnier and revealed yet again how you cannot rely of these rags for any kind of truthful reporting of what is ‘actually’ taking place. Thereby ignorance emboldened by ‘false’ reporting spreads.
“Although I despise Ms Dudgale because of her inability to act and work like a serious politician, I genuinely feel sorry for her regarding the news on her private life,”
Sorry Gary But I dont feel one iota of sympathy for her, this is the woman who fights tooth & nail and lies through her teeth to to tie us to this shambles of a union that causes misery and poverty on our country in the interests of her own political career I wish her all the unhappiness and misery life can throw at her
Graeme
@sensibledave says: 14 January, 2017 at 12:49 pm:
<i" … I am not a “Yoon”."
Oh! Yes you are! You most certainly are a Unionist, sensibledave, and very probably a bought and paid for Cyberbrit to boot.
” … I actually want the UK (whether Scotland is in it or not) to be OK post Brexit”.
And so, probably do most Wingers, Sensibledave. Our enemies are not the good people of England, Wales and N.I.
Our enemies are the Westminster Establishment and their bought and paid for servants such as the top tier Civil Servants, the top tier bosses at the Bank of England the whole of the MSM, (MainStreamMedia), and especially the BBC, The Security Services and especially Brigade 77, The C of E, The Royalty and the Aristocracy of England, the English educationalists of the English public School system and much of corporate big business.
” … so I am looking for bargaining chips in the negotiations”
There won’t be negotiations, sensibledave. First of all nothing will be attempted until the EU rules are followed by the Yoons – that is nothing before the Prime Minister of the Parliament of England proffers a formal request for the United Kingdom, (sic), to leave the EU. (As per the Article 50 rules of the EU).
At which point the EU, (without any input from the United Kingdom), will consider the formal request and really have no other option than to formally grant the EU’s permission for the United Kingdom to leave.
At this point the Prime Minister, (of what is effectively the Parliament of the Country of England), will attempt to open negotiations with the EU and that will be at the level of the European Commission and the EU parliament will probably insist that their Civil Servants, (EU Commissioners will only deal with the still extant UK EU Commissioners.
This will inevitably be a long drawn out business and the EC will make reports to the EU and the EU will instruct the EC how to proceed. On the UK’s part the UK European Commissioner will compose and draw up reports to the Westminster Government. Et Al.
It will be around this point that the European parliament will decide when the matter will come before the European Parliament proper. There they will be duty bound to consider all the various aspects.
They must also consult all the various interested parties involved in an EU Parliamentary debate on the matter.
That will include the MEPs from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but also must consider, such as the Republic of Ireland, who will have the only open land border between the EU and the United Kingdom.
I would speculate that due to the fact the United Kingdom’s actual legal status will be examined in depth the fact that the United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of kingdoms and not actually a union of four countries will be high on the agenda. If it isn’t I expect the SG or the MEPs from Scotland will make sure it is considered.
At this point I have no doubt the question of the legal position of the Kingdom of Scotland where the EU citizens voted to remain in the EU must be properly examined from the point of view of the Scots EU citizenry who are obviously going to have their EU citizenship removed from them against the will of the majority of EU citizens of Scotland.
This is the point where the European Parliament must, in all good conscience, rise to the defence of their EU citizens in Scotland but all this will be via the EU commission who are the EU Civil Servants.
There can really only be one final EU decision if the EU is not to lose all credibility and the EU then start to disunite in much the same way as the United Kingdom is doing right now – and for the very same reason.
Neither parliament would be operating as what it purports to be.
The United Kingdom ceased to be run as a United Kingdom almost before the ink was dry on the Treaty of Union and it became the Parliament of the Country of England that it still is today even more so with devolution and EVEL.
Thus the United KINGDOM residents, (are not citizens of the United Kingdom they are legally subjects of the Monarchy in a United, Kingdom.
Yet under Scots law that is illegal when applied to the legally sovereign people of Scotland. However, the EVEL regulations of Westminster clearly treat ALL the non-English peoples of the United Kingdom as lesser subjects by depriving their elected MPs full involvement in UK parliamentary procedures that Westminster alone decides are England Only matters. In fact the Westminster Parliament has made itself the Parliament of England. But under what actual legal procedure?
The EU must take full consideration that as the UK is a bipartite union of Kingdoms and the two partner kingdoms have voted for different outcomes that both Kingdoms EU citizens get the protection of the EU.
That is for the Kingdom of England majority to get their expressed wish to leave while the Scots majority also get their expressed wish to remain.
Furthermore, as the two kingdoms are legally equally sovereign there is nothing that dictates that only England be considered the legacy EU Member state and this gives the EU an easy way out.
They simple retain the Kingdom of Scotland partner in the United Kingdom as the legacy member state and allow England, (the Kingdom of), to leave as they requested.
There really is no other negotiations required. T. May correctly said this week – there is no picking and choosing and thus there can be no soft Brexit.
Only then will the Westminster Establishment realise the only ones fooled by their brainwashing that the UK is Britain was themselves. The rest of us always knew that Britain is bigger than the United Kingdom.
KI 4.14
….try reading K1. See my comment at 12.49. I never said it was some slam-dunk point that meant that the UK could hold a gun to the EU’s head (fool) – I said it was another reason why the EU, in the end, will do a deal.
For reasons I do not understand, many on here revel in the hope that the negotiations wont be successful – and it colours your judgement and perspective. I hope you dont run your own business K1 – ’cause you couldn’t sell a can of coke to thirsty millionaire!
Anyway, we will know the outcome in a couple of years and, as has been the case with so many things, you will come to learn that I was right – again!
Off out again now. Gooodnight.
Oh, btw, Robert Peffers – thanks for the lesson in pedantry once again.
I look at the cartoon and think –
“Love is never having to say you’re Sarwar.”
Nonsense dave has finished his shift, snide, patronising turd.
Graeme @ 6:15.
I’m in your gang!
WOS archive links now over on O/T.
Totally agree with Artyhetty, Dave just reminds us what we are fighting for.
I think the lovely couple might just have read this.
link to archive.is
@K1 6:13pm
Well said. Britnat desperation will only increase and with it will come yet more britnat lies.
Oh, btw, Robert Peffers, thanks again for the lesson in constitutional stuff.
It’s the rock upon which this rotten Union will finally break.
mike cassidy @6.43: shameless, absolutely shameless 😛
Heeheeheehee.
Than God he’s gone,
The anointing thing is he is right on the basis of some, but is so twisted U.K.ok style, it clouds the little good with so much horseshit.
Probably that’s what makes him so irritating.
But I did find it funny he came on tonight, to a forum that everyday debunks newspapers for twisted truths, and got his arse slapped again, for er quotes in a newspaper he did not check, must read that paper one day, no maybe I won’t.
Great post, Mr Peffers.
Well said, Artyhetty.
Patronising turd sums it up. I was going to respond, but decided to head out into the snow with my dogs.
It’s mildly amusing to hear the troll wailing, that we mean folk down south ill, when nothing of the sort has been proffered, and never has been on this site in any of the years I’ve been following. But, we know the warcry of ‘you hate the English’ is the refuge of the desperate.
I simply pointed out to the boy Davey, he was a willing victim of fake news, and he turned that into ‘you want us to fail’.
sensibledave says:
14 January, 2017 at 6:35 pm
KI 4.14
I don’t hate the English. They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonised by wankers.
Art sensibledave, is life.
O/T Do you think Wings readers can do something about this poll?
link to twitter.com
The leaders of the unionist parties in Scotland have no credibility and no shame.
They wouldn’t last a week in the job if we had an objective media questioning them.
Folks,
I know it’s tempting to focus on the current currency devaluation but I tend to think of it as a lesson in how the seas haven’t parted and the sky hasn’t fallen in.
I spoke out alot in the run up to indyref1 about why we needed our own sovereign floating currency yet one of the big fears was the value of the currency
My hope is that post independence there will be a fiscal stimulus which is focused on boosting our energy exports. if as a result of that spending there is a devaluation we will experience a balancing effect on the long run as our strong exports become more attractIve. Indeed the UK, had it maintained its focus on exports into and beyond the 80s there would be more benefits now during the current slump in the £
Exactly this happened in Iceland after 2008 when their govt invested in the productive economy. There was a devaluation and inflation for about 18 months and then a rebalancing.
Use the current example of devaluation as a Positive model for the flexibility of a floating currency.
Fred wrote on 14 January, 2017 at 6:03 pm:
“That was superb, the Wee Blue Book got a mention & Elaine C a class act. Spanner apparently hiding in the hall, wonder if it’s Torrance?”
Folks, i’ve been meaning to get around to passing comment on this and i think it currently reveals a problem within the Yes movement.
The first i became aware of this event was at some point yesterday when Cactus (i think?) made a comment in his own inimitable way about it.
Then i read another Wingers comment earlier today but that was far too late for me, if i was able to, to get to the event or at the very least get up to Glasgow for the weekend.
I’m not whinging about this because as i understand it the event was predictably a sell-out. I’m just pointing out that there may be a problem existing within the movement concerning communicating important issues and/or events.
I think a big part of the problem could be people just assuming that everyone else knows. We can’t afford to think like that in a world where the media in Scotland already keeps the truth from us.
Surely i’m not alone in not being aware of this event or do i need to go and listen to some Del Amitri?
Always The Last To Know
link to youtube.com
There’s a great example of,
I don’t hate the English. They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonised by wankers.
on the BBC r4 vote tory freak show today sensibledave.
No idea which tory twerp it actually is, Jeremy Browne or former cabinet minister Owen Paterson MP, but this is what exactly Scots like me are determined to be colonised by no more.
link to bbc.co.uk
Luigi says:
14 January, 2017 at 7:34 am
“A union of donkeys …”
Shouldn’t that be ‘two mules’? Both stubborn as hell and incapable of producing anything viable for the future?
Robert Peffers,
“This is the point where the European Parliament must, in all good conscience, rise to the defence of their EU citizens in Scotland but all this will be via the EU commission who are the EU Civil Servants.”
I predict with 100% confidence that the colony of Scotland will be completely ignored by both the EU and the UK.
The EU and the rest of the world don’t give a damn about the internal arrangements of the UK. They deal with the single political entity, the UK.
If Brexit happens, the colony of Scotland gets out of the EU along with its master.
@sensibledave says: 14 January, 2017 at 6:35 pm:
“Oh, btw, Robert Peffers – thanks for the lesson in pedantry once again.”
Oh! Dear!
Oor Oh! So! sensibledave proves just once more how absolutely in-sensible he actually is.
Here is the dictionary definition of the term:-
Only a bloody idiotic Little Englander Unionist could designate the future of the disuniting of the United Kingdom as being, “minor details and rules”.
In point of fact what sensibledave is really railing against is nothing like pedantry.
His fears of are of the reality that is the stark and certain truth that he cannot abide to contemplate.
It is, though, slowly creeping up upon him from the darkest recesses of the nightmare scenario his mind refuses to openly confront but yet still instinctively attempts to keep the horrible truth at bay from his conscious self.
I say again sensibledave. “It’s commin yet fir aa that”.
The United Kingdom is undeniably a legal union between only two equally sovereign kingdoms. It is not now, and never will be either a legal union of countries or a single united country.
The United Kingdom is the member state of the European Union – it is not a member country and each partner kingdom is equally sovereign.
There is no legal evidence that when the Scottish monarch inherited the English crown in 1603 ever formed a legal United Kingdom. It was nought but a personal union of two still independent crowns resting upon the same person’s head. Hence the English need for a Treaty of Union in 1707.
There is absolutely no actual evidence that the sovereignty of the monarchy of the Kingdom of England that was legally delegated to the Parliament of England by the English, “Glorious Revolution”, of 1688 could be legally forced upon the still independent Kingdom of Scotland and was why the English Kingdom required the Treaty of Union of 1707.
It was also why the English Parliament was still calling the Jacobites Rebels even though the still independent Scots of 1688 could boy be rebelling against a still foreign English monarchy and why, in 1745 the English army was slaughtering innocent Scots as Jacobite rebels at Culloden Moor.
So there is what sensibledave classes as pedantry – the truth of events between 1603 and 1707 that are plainly written in the Treaty of Union of 1707.
A treaty that united only two equally sovereign Kingdoms cannot kingdoms, by magic, become an unequal union of four distinct countries with the country of England parliament in Westminster treating its actual equally sovereign partner kingdom as just another of the country of England’s defeated and annexed dominions as described in the what they wrongly now call, “The Treaty of Union”, of 1800/1, which is actually not a treaty of any kind or form. It/they are actually Acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom and are actually titled as such.
They could not add any further kingdoms to the bipartite United Kingdom of 1707 because there were no other British Kingdoms in 1800/1 as the Principality of Wales was annexed by the Kingdom of England in 1284 and the Kingdom of Ireland ceded the Crown of Ireland to the King of England in 1542 by an act of the Parliament of Ireland.
Also bear in mind that before 1688 the legal systems of England, Ireland and Wales conformed to, “Divine Right of Kings”, but the laws of Scotland had not followed that legal system at lease as far back as 1320 and thus the formation of the Kingdom of England as a Constitutional Monarchy is not applicable to Scotland and that is made clear in the 1707 Treaty of Union by an article of union that declares both the Scottish and English legal system must remain independent in perpetuity.
The two legal system are incompatible and it is thus not legal to attempt to subjugate and disregard the Scottish legal system by forcing it to comply with the English legal system.
Laughable that the Little Englander sensibledave should have the brass neck to accuse someone telling it how it is of being a pedant when the real and actual pedant is the Little Englander himself.
I believe his spell of being rather quiet for a while only to return to posting on Wings with a more aggressive style was due to his employer’s. (obviously failed), attempts to re-educate their employee.
There are some folk representing themselves as advocates for Yes and they spoke on the livestream event today
Al I can say is thank god the general population didn’t hear them or quite a few would be put off voting for Independence
50 years I’ve been an Independence supporter and it was turning me off
Lesley Riddoch was fine,Tommy Shepherd asked folk to take their politics out of the campaign and join together to get the job done then up stepped Sarah Beattie (Greens)who rubbished the SNP and put the Greens politics straight back in again with a broadcast as did Cat Boyd (who the blazes is she) just standing there talking herself up with all the substance of pink gravy
As long as this divisive attitude prevails Scotland will win nothing
There are too many people trying to claim ownership of the campaign and only pretending to co-operate as long as they get their face in and it’s stupid just stupid and so not helpful
No party or government or campaign ever won anything by telling people all their taxes would go up and they’d just have to lump it
So if there’s anybody out there with magic powers gonnae stop the Greens speaking they sound like communists, we know they’re never going to win anything but again not helpful
Preparing to duck blows!
@Dr Jim
I despise anyone or any group that uses Independence solely as an issue to further their own agenda. Independence has nothing to do with any agenda but for me is purely about allowing the Scottish people to be governed by those chosen by the Scottish people.
The likes of Cat Boyd get right on my nerves, if she wants any respect then first she must earn it, so far all I have heard from her is the bumping of her gums.
For me there is no political allegiance or even philosophy when it comes to Independence, all just a waste of time.
Gaining Independence is the one and only issue and that is what I will concentrate on. Everything else is immaterial and small beer really. The other stuff is not even worth thinking about until you have dealt with the main issue.
‘I never said it was some slam-dunk point that meant that the UK could hold a gun to the EU’s head (fool) – ‘
I quoted extensively what you ‘did say’ and responded at length to debunk your actual words Davey boy with the Reuters article. I certainly did not utter any of the words that you have in your response to me. What you have done is what you always do…insult, patronise and condescend. Your clearly have a deficit when it comes to reading and understanding information and what is actually being stated. Ergo you are uninformed and unable to dialogue or debate in an adult and ‘reasonable’ manner. Such a sore sore loser Davey boy. Ye’ve nae clue as to what will or will not happen, same as the rest of us.
So you fantasise and read newspaper’s and listen to political pundits that your ‘agree’ with cause it suits your fantasy of being ‘right’. You then merely regurgitate…without discernment. You fall for it and are desperate to come onto to the UK’s top political blog on Scottish independence to do what exactly? To ‘gloat’ about how ‘right you are’?
That’s funny cause the whole essence of my post undermined your sense of ‘right’. Your weren’t ‘right’ about what you claimed Davey boy, you claimed ‘hope’ and based your whole ‘reading’ of the Spectator take on the Guardian article as ‘prove’ of hope…hope for your ‘position’? That some ‘special deal’ was being made for the city. But it isn’t Davey boy. Mr Barnier was misquoted. He corrected it and yet that Guardian article that claims ‘special deal’ is still up on the Guardian site, with amendments further down…it’s a terrible article full of speculative pish from a so called newspaper that is known form misinterpreting information?
Robert Peffers just outlined to you the ‘hard’ facts of the matter. Once again you responded in your typically dismissive and arrogant manner, you don’t ‘do’ debate’, as you have just proven. You only do ‘me, me, me’. This ‘arrogance’ will be the undoing of your country. Then you really will need to examine the reality unfolding in front of ‘all’ of our eyes.
Tell me something Davey boy, will the Supreme Court uphold the division court’s decision and reject the government’s appeal?
About as blessed a union as T May and Jeremy Hunt today! That man is a total wanker; not even 5 years in office and he’s brought Englands NHS to the point of absurdity. Sack him, if not for incompetence as a Minister, to spare us the benefit of his political acumen that interrupts T May when she needs to be seen as The British PM working flat out out on Brexit to be the English First Minister chiding their GPs to do something un-necessary. What a hero … not
Must have been a great cartoon Chris to set even-tempered me off on a rant! 😀
Re: the convention this afternoon.
I watched a bit but as I don’t have good internet access for livestreaming, while I was watching Tommy Sheppard the comments on the sidebar were decrying Cat Boyd. The Left will never win indy but they are good at getting the vote out. They should stick to that. RISE got 0.5% at Holyrood elections – time they realised the vast majority are not interested in them.
Dr Jim wrote:
“Preparing to duck blows!”
Why? You’ve made perfectly valid points and i think a lot of folk are starting to wake up to their divisive games and man-mind-thy-self approach at inconsiderate and ill-advised times.
To back up your points it was just 2-days ago(?) that The National did a piece on ‘major groups’ refusing to take part in the SNP’ consultation.
One of the groups was from Scotland’s voluntary sector and the other was ‘Common Weal’ and they had a picture supporting the article of some dude from ‘Common Weal’ with a big gloating grin on his puss.
A message of cohesion was not what i got from it.
(shrugs shoulders and gestures hands to the skies)
Ah @ Dr Jim
Its funny how we censor ourselves. I think its patently clear that the independent country we will arrive at will be run by and for Scots. But there will be a lot of disappointed people whom we presently need on board to get to our destination.
Unfortunately the comfortable middle classes who will gain so much in the period of social mobility post independence, will be too busy at soirées while the foot soldiers of the motivated left are knocking doors to get the vote out.
The really big change in independent Scotland will be the rise of an indigenous elite to replace the foreign one we are about to defenestrate. Tommy et al are great motivational speakers, but they are not going to be elected in sufficient numbers to realise their darker ambitions. Racist nutters however, may become a feature of life in the future – once the Conservatives lose their current raison d’etre.
I am myself only – and alone – for independence. Pure altruism. I love my country. I have no skin in the game after Independence Day. But we need to win next time.
Just looked on the Scotsman website and looking at the comments on the report of today’s Convention meeting in Glasgow.
Typical remarks and just appalling. Mind you the disgraceful remarks regarding Cannon Kenton Wright earlier in the week were beyond the pale. Has the Scotsman got no morals!
BuildYes seems to have enthused the people who always agreed with them anyway. There will be many more similar events no doubt.
The journalists there were saying don’t upset journalists and the BBC, some of the Greens were saying everyone should subscribe to a Green Independent Scotland. The SNP probably tried not to offend anyone. The Rise mob took up more space and oxygen than they merit and so it goes on. Missing was one of the most significant voices of the IndyRef – WoS.
Spanner may or may not have been there and sneered and picked holes in the lack of detail. Nothing, unsurprisingly enough, would convince him/her/it/them. Maybe if they had made themselves known and challenged some of the points made they would have got something out of the meeting but that was not their purpose.
Until the two sides thrash out the main points like currency, the ‘deficit’ and pensions, meetings like this will be meaningless. The sooner this is done the better, not in toxic Blogwars or Twitter type confrontations but in real discussions with true neutrals. We cannot waste time in talking shops with few dissenting voices.
Just now there is an impasse where neither side is really listening or talking to the other. Even within the Yes movement a coalition is forming which seeks to exclude those of us angry at our pathetic MSM. I fear another campaign dominated by the egos and ineffectual voices of last time with the emphasis on the ‘feelgood factor’.
I know it is early days but the strategy and tactics have to change.
“They” “He” or “She” will never bring us Independence. Only “WE” will.
Peace Always
So first off the trollop comes on a day or two ago with a nice ingratiating post to show new lurkers and even unaware regular posters what a truly nice reasonable person it is.
Then it posts to tell us ignoramuses that the UK has a special mighty relationship and the EU is desperate to keep it going, desperate, even its anti-UK negoiator is on bended knees. With the implication it won’t be a hard Brexit so we won’t get Indy Ref 2, abandon hope all ye who deign to listen to a trollop. Despair, grovel!
Then when slapped down in that as Barnier was totally misreprsented by the precious Grun, in fact he was saying the opposite, that the EU would ahve to be extra careful doing business with the City of London in a “third country” UK outside the single market, he tries the line that all of us “For reasons I do not understand, many on here revel in the hope that the negotiations wont be successful ” wish the rUK harm, which we don’t at all.
Apart from many having friends and family in the ruK, and not wishing them harm, or the rest of them, iScotland wants the rUK to be strong because we want to trade with them and get all their money. Kerching.
Then it’s the “anti-English” slur. Express poster style.
Then finally the trollop lapses into personal insults against posters, and goes off in a huff because people aren’t biting at its absurdities.
The rise and fall of a trollop.
@Dr Jim
You won’t get any blows from me. I didn’t watch it (asleep, was working all night), but thanks for the review – do more if you like.
The Greens were playing a great hand right up till I read “Indyref2 can be won with a radical agenda say Greens” in The National and thought Oh my God, here we go again with the far-left crap that will keep Indy below 50%.
Fair enough if they want to put it as their manifesto for the first Holyrood election in an Independent Scotland, people will vote or not vote accordingly. But it came across as that they thought YES2 should be all about their stuff.
No, YES2 has to be non-political party. None and all.
“Olde English proverb: Hole in pocket, feel cocky all day.”
I prefer the fake Confusion ‘original’ which includes a warning thus:
— Man with hole in pocket : He feel a little cocky
— But man with two holes in pocket : He no feel too/two cocky!
And that one must be almost as old as Jezzers …
The rise and fall of a trollop.
Former UKOK tory Prime Minister, shag monster, fabulous hypocrite liar, John Major is a huge Trollope fan. That is one old tory shagger that sure does love his England, in the EU, with long shadows across his criket club, course, pitch or whatever it is the old bores call them.
Shagtastic stuff.
link to johnmajor.co.uk
PRIME MINISTER:
Two years ago I said I wanted to put Britain at the heart of Europe. And the heart of Europe is where I still want us to be.
It is now 20 years since we joined the European Community.
Since then, a whole generation has grown up. A generation free of the legacy of the old animosities. A generation which takes for granted co-operation between the Member States.
Yet in 1973 all you would take to the Continent was a limited amount of foreign currency and £25 sterling. Today, we go to France much as we might go to Yorkshire. Last year we made a trifling 24 million trips to Europe.
It is no longer an oddity for British students to spend a year in France or to see a German student rowing in the boatrace for Cambridge.”
Never trust a tory, not in the past, present etc etc.
Sitting rather befuddled and disoriented in Sydney airport after a ridiculous day and a half travel from Brussels. Even then I don’t think I’m in any way as dazed and confused as Kezia. Total car crash just about sums it up.
Flight back to the blessed isles in half an hour – body clock shot tae f*ck.
@Yesindyref2
‘No, YES2 has to be non-political party. None and all.’
Couldn’t agree more. The media and Westminster parties drove our first indyref into a personal and party political culvert in 2014. They personalized it by putting the whole show on Mr Salmond and party politicized it by painting it as Labour v SNP.
This CANNOT be allowed to happen again.
Any indyref is a people’s referendum. All of us together or not at all. The only way to bring people on board in a referendum campaign is to get them to see beyond their party prejudices. To work together as people, as Scots who wish to be governed in Scotland by a Scottish government (regardless of party).
The rosettes stay in the damn drawer.
SCOTLAND !!!
That is all.
We are HOME.
X.
Aussi ~
I second ur 21:30hrs Smallaxe bro.
Oui we!
B’s and S’s.
@Macart
Indeed, and having Angela Constance and Tommy Sheppard as the SNP speakers show the SNP realise that. Constance I voted for as depute leader because she was far the best for support of the wider YES movement. In the second I didn’t vote for Sheppard because I thought it needed the steady experienced hand of Angus. He told us that himself! Many times …
The Greens I thought went two steps forward the last few weeks. Today it seeems they jumped one step back.
And as Dr Jim and others say, RISE and its noisy bunch certainly have their place, but YES2 is not RISE. At most it’s 0.5% YES. If they want more support for post-Indy politics, they need to earn it.
I get the feeling the SIC Convention today was disappointing.
Game on
Brexit: PM expected to say UK prepared to leave single market
link to archive.is
@heed
I always like your style. A bit wacky and with humour effective against trolls.
Curiously I too read a lot of Trollope, probably all, years ago. A great insight into a different part and attitude of older England.
Just out of curiosity:
Is that a pistol in Jezza’s pocket?
Or is he just glad to see her??
On further review, maybe not.
Rallies are a morale boosting get together for the faithful. Fair enough.
They won’t generate many converts. That takes hard work leafleting, knocking on doors, with street stalls, and other face to face discussions with soft NOs.
Yer right Nana..
Nevermind the 31st March 2017..
Let’s see what happens on Tuesday..
Cheers Sis.
X.
Didn’t watch the conference, just reading comments here about it. I am just not sure about another ‘yes’ campaign at all, it gives ‘no’ a voice imo. Do we just ditch it, though the ballot will be a yes or no, and just have a ‘Scottish Independence Campaign’. It sounds grown up, more inclusive and more directed?
Dr.Jim@7.53
Regards your comment, it needs said. No room for agenda driven divide and the Greens’ ‘radical agenda’ will lose the soft no’s before we have even started.
@Nana
In fairness to May she has consistently said “Brexit is Brexit”. Some sort of half-in half-out membership of the single market is not Brexit.
Nana says:
If May makes it clear there will be no single market, that is step one of the Scottish Government’s plan completed. Tick.
Step two is to have May et al say there will be no special deal to allow Scotland to stay in the single market. That will probably follow quickly!
That leave Step Three, IndyRef2. It will be totally unavoidable.
Indeed.
@Yesindyref2
Been out of the loop today (Twins birthday treat), so not up on events or threads. I haven’t seen or heard anything on the SIC convention so can’t comment.
That aside, I agree on the Angus/Tommy decision. Tommy is a great asset and a tremendous presence, but Angus has the experience in the big arenas. I can see Tommy going on to bigger and better though and that’s fer sure.
As for RISE? They need to earn their stripes just like everyone else. Put in the graft, the arguments, the policy, the working well with others and most importantly … the time. If they last the course, they’ll get their reward. If not? Then not.
Patrick and the Greens…. mmmm! Bloody infuriating comes to mind. I suspect inexperience, over confidence and sheer silliness may be involved on that count. (sigh) They’ve got a lot to learn. They’re coming along as a political unit but they sooo need time and seasoning.
What they all need to accept though, is that if and when that starting pistol goes off? The politicians inform the debate, they don’t own it, they don’t run it.
Cactus:
Simples, WE good?
Peace Always my Friend
We good dude.
Wingers are wonderful.
That means you, you.
Scotland Knows Better.
Not only the single market, but the customs union and the European court of Justice. Game on indeed, as has been said, just tells us to fuck off and we Will oblige.
I was at the convention. Overall it was good with some exceptions. First of all elaine c smith was outstanding. Funny, passionate and speaks the language of the people. She can connect with everyone. The yes 2 guys were ace. We need more of that. Tommy was great. Mhairi too. Lesley was informative. Dr Craig and his stats were good. But there was too much naval gazing by cat and others. Yawn. I get it. But the punters on the door won’t.
Nicola connects with people too. But my only real gripe was why oh why is wings hardly mentioned? It’s our first stop shop for the facts. The rev has done more for Indy than anyone.
Anyway overall it was pretty damn good.
Keep it up wingers cos sooner of later those no voters will get curious and then sniff about on here and when they do they will smell the coffee.
No way May will let Scotland have a separate deal. She obviously thinks the FM is bluffing. May’s complacency can only help us. It’s all ticking along nicely.
As others have said, the noisy far left can get votes out but at the same time put moderate NOs off.
The colonial media will latch on to those who promote a ‘high taxes on the middle class’ Scotland and use them to hammer the whole idea of independence.
I often wonder if the radical left lost more votes than it gained in IndyRef1.
Everyone is welcome to campaign for Indy. Nobody should be pushing unpopular agendas in the name of Indy. They beg the question – whose side are they really on?
@Nana – just to let you know I really appreciate your links you are a total star xx
@yesindyref2
In fairness to May she has consistently said “Brexit is Brexit”
Really? come on inders she is a vacuous bastirt!!
@Croompenstein
I like to put the possible alternative view sometimes 🙂
@nana 10.32
Aye, game on! WM will twist and turn, lie and cheat but we have it covered. May has to admit hard Eexit is what she wants, Scotland has different ideas.
Time to put the UK Union out of its misery.
“Brexit is Brexit”
Perhaps a bit more honesty could have helped. What it should always have been is …
Brexit is about stopping migration
… trade, economy, justice, rights, everything else is secondary and will be sacrificed.
Nicola is playing the long game anticipating a heavy defeat for Labour at the next GE leading to the resignation of Corbyn a return of New Labour to pre-eminence and security for herself and Labour in Scotland.
EU commissioners will most likely muddy the waters of Brexit by voting to retain an independent Scotland(without precondition)within the EU should it decide to seek independence from Westminster
@ScottishPsyche says: 14 January, 2017 at 9:24 pm:
” … The journalists there were saying don’t upset journalists and the BBC.”
But they would say that, would they not?
” … some of the Greens were saying everyone should subscribe to a Green Independent Scotland.”
But they would say that would they not?
” … The SNP probably tried not to offend anyone.”
But then they never do try to offend anyone but the anyones will accuse then of offending everyone as usual.
” … The Rise mob took up more space and oxygen than they merit”
They always have and they always will. Just ignore them they don’t matter anyway.
” … Until the two sides thrash out the main points like currency, the ‘deficit’ and pensions, meetings like this will be meaningless.”
Why on Earth would the two sides even bother about attempting to thrash out the unimportant stuff like the currency, pensions and the deficit, ScottishPsyche?
These were all Red Herring tactics of the Westminster Propaganda Wing that are shoved up the noses of those daft enough to think them important.
All three topics were promptly demolished by the truth and by logical argument. Anyone unable to understand how totally unimportant all three topics were needs to do a little reasoned thinking.
It won’t matter a jot what an independent Scotland chooses to call whatever an independent Scotland chooses to be its independent currency. If indeed they decide to actually use an independent currency.
Scottish banks can all legally print their own banknotes and have done since before the Treaty of Union but Bank Notes are actually no more than IOUs. Read any banknote and you will see something like this:-
It matters nought whose currency it is or what it is tied to as it is just an IOU a certain sum. In fact anyone can take a pen and legally do the same.
What matters with a currency is its value in relation to the several international trading currencies that are bought and sold like every other commodity on the open market
No one needs to stand to guarantee a currency for the open market does that. It is why the Pound Sterling suddenly dips and rises in relation to the other international trading currencies.
Many countries use international trading currencies and many have their own but it is not an international trading currency. In fact there are some towns and cities in the UK that, (alongside Sterling), use a local currency of their own.
Currencies are no longer tied to gold, or any other standards nowadays. There is only thus the need for a lender of last resort but that isn’t of much importance either unless the currency is an international trading currency.
Any decent economy of a country is the guarantee of that county’s currency and an independent Scotland would have an embarrassingly healthy economy because Scotland has long been an acknowledged net exporter of food & drink, fuel, power and even clean drinking water.
Not only that but anything England can produce or service England can provide so also can Scotland.
The significance of that is that there will be people queuing up to give us currency in whatever denomination we ask for, in exchange for Scottish goods and services.
That is the real reason that England is so recalcitrant to allow Scotland even a tiny bit of actual home rule. They do not want us to outdo England but they also rip us off good style.
So that’s the currency myth dealt with.
Pensions, all of them, are a legal contract between the pension provider and the pensioner and Westminster has already stated that they will respect all UK government pensions they have contracted to supply and that includes the UK state pensions.
Next?
Deficit? What deficit? Scotland does not actually have a deficit. Scotland is an acknowledged net exporter of goods and services and thus Scotland has been subsidising the rest of the UK for as long as I can remember.
It is only on the Westminster account books that a Scottish deficit shows up and that is down to the Westminster rather creative accounting.
For just a couple of wee examples – The so called, “National Grid”, is set up to charge electricity generators more per kilowatt of electricity that they add to the national grid depending on how far from London the generator is situated.
This is called, “Grid Connection Charges”.
However, Westminster also subsidises those generators in the south, nearer London, for every kilowatt of power they add to the grid. The proverbial double whammy.
Then we have how Westminster does the accounts for exports.
They do not count where the exported goods are actually made or produced as being the exporter of the goods.
They credit them as exports of the port or airport that they leave from.
Then they spend have spent many decades of tax payers money to build up the English port and airport infrastructures while making bloody sure the non-English ones get very run down.
There are many more such Westminster rip-offs of Scottish assets. Including the up to 98% of total UK oil & gas revenues taken from Scottish fields that are directly claimed by the UK treasury as being from, “UK extra-region”, Territory and not from Scotland.
Nana @10.32
Why are we reading a leak of T May’s Brexit speech when all along she has refused to give away any clues to her negotiating terms…?
I smell a smell…
Cameron used to do this; leak that you, yourself, are about to say, (or get a junior Minister to say) something radical/controversial and see what hornet’s nest is disturbed overnight adjust your speech and present a different, more acceptable view in all innocence and come out of it without the proverbial s*** clinging to you.
Course, it could be a cunning bluff; if the Supreme Court reports next week, she may have to shelve Royal Prerog, drop all plans – if any and go to the HoC. She then comes out of it all, squeaky clean and blames the Justice System for interfering.
If the leak is correct, then as Galamcennalath says, step one is ticked off on our Government’s list.
Bring it on Treesaa!
This next month is going to be absolutely pivotal in the future of our beautiful country.
I listened today to the Covention and have mixed views on its success.
What I did take out of the event is that more than 2 years on from 18th Sep 2014, ( and I never want to feel like i did on the 19th ever again!), despite all the bias, the lies and the total hate campaign we are enduring, there is still a strong enough feeling in a core of the people that will never die and because of that Scotland WILL become an independent country again.
(We just need, Israel, Syria, Putin, Trump and China to ‘keep the heid’ for a bit longer!)
Just a couple of asides here.
First of all if some of my recent posts have been a bit strange I can explain. I had turned of the text predictor and spell checker but somehow Microsoft had managed to turn them back on again. I had not noticed the comments had changed after I had posted them.
Another thing I noted someone had said there was someone called Auld Boab that was rather like me in the style of commenting. In fact I have posted all over the web as Auldbob or Auld Bob for decades. It began when I was just 25 Y.O. In my family, including cousins, we had lots of Robert Peffers. Including my Grandfather, my father, myself and my son.
So it was a family joke that we called the oldest one Auld Bob until the next one came along and Auld Bob became Auld Auld Bob and so on down the chain of Bobs. At the moment the extended family has shrunk or emigrated and things are a lot less complicated now but my old tags registered years ago with especially news outlets including local, national and international newspapers still have me registered as Auld Bob or Auldbob.
I noted the other day someone was complaining they needed to turn of the spell checker but could not find it.
If they use Microsoft Edge it is a text predictor that tries to predict what you intend to type.
To turn it off try this –
click on the three wee dots on the top right corner of the page.
Scroll down to the bottom of the panel that pops out and click on Settings.
This opens another panel and scroll to the bottom of that panel too and click where it says, “View Advanced Settings”.
Scroll down and the second last setting is the very naff and stupid text predictor that often makes errors and is deadly with Scottish spelling, dialect and word predictions.
You may need to turn off the browser and restart it before the damned idiotic predictor goes away.
It is actualy very useful that today’s Scottish Independence Convention Conference has given us all a chance to look at where the different public players in OUR, as in All the people of Scotland’s IndyRef2 stand.
Sadly some seem to still see the fight for independence as an opportunity to be self promoting and sometimes divisive in their rhetoric.
This in an early heads up.
Now we have seen this behaviour happening again, we have a new opportunity to work with what are, for now, unhelpful elements and to find a way to work together, constructively for our common goal.
Everyone has their talents. Used well WE will gain Scotland’s Independence = )
@Robert Peffers
As ever you argue your points incredibly well but it is not you or me that has to be convinced. The ‘deficit’, pensions and currency issues have assumed mythical status not only with Yoons but amongst our own.
I feel we have parallel monologues with the No side rather than argue with them. The Yoon arguments have gained a credibility they do not deserve and need debunking calmly. I have never seen respectful debate televised between the two sides – maybe there was some in the early days.
I enjoy a slapping down of an arrogant Yoon as much as anyone but I am longing for a grown up discussion between both sides to see if it can even be done.
@Robert Peffers 11.51.
Now I know where Terry Pratchett got the idea for the naming of the clan members of the Wee Free Men!
( It’s a Disc World thing lol)
I’d be interested to know people’s opinions on YES2. They seem to be OK so far, and nobody seems to have a bad word to say about them … yet.
—————-
UKSC ruling timescale by the way, don’t know if I read it here or elsewhere. The Supreme Court have apparently said they’ll give 3 days notice of publishing the ruling. So it would seem logical they announce it on a Monday, and the ruling come out on the following Thursday. Though it could be a Friday announcement for a Wednesday ruling. That’s my guess.
Could happen this week I guess, though seems a bit early to me.
They’ve announced 4 judgements due this week, none of them the appeal against Miller.
link to supremecourt.uk
This begs all kinds of questions. What does planet toryboy have to do, for the English to not vote tory? Hunger Games next, mainly for Jennifer Lawrence. Its Crash Gordo’s greatest legacy, vote tory England forever. Poor JC.
Britain Elects ?@britainelects 6h6 hours ago
Note that poll prompts May and Corbyn in question.
Latest YouGov (04/01) which doesn’t include the leaders in the Q, has it Lab 28, Con 20.Britain Elects added,
Britain Elects @britainelects
On who would do a better job at managing the NHS this winter:
T. May & the Tories: 43%
J. Corbyn & Labour: 31%
(via ComRes / 11 – 13 Jan)
On who would do a better job at managing the NHS this winter:
T. May & the Tories: 43%
J. Corbyn & Labour: 31%
Rancid The Graun headlines
Sunday
15 January 2017
NHS in crisis as cancer operations cancelled due to lack of beds.
Hospital chief warns government must face the truth, as patients lose surgery dates with some only receiving one day’s notice.
GPs Seven-day NHS demand ‘could spark mass resignations’
Opinion May’s inconvenient truth: the NHS cannot carry on as it is
NHS crisis ‘My frail mum was forced to wait on the floor’
Well stop voting tory, England.
Apologies if a similar post appears later – I think I may have clicked something too soon.
@Robert Peffers
Robert as ever you argue eloquently and with great knowledge but it is not me who needs convincing. The ‘deficit’, pensions and currency are all issues that have achieved mythical status as being the barriers to us being able to exist as a nation. Of course, they are no such thing but I feel we have monologues in parallel with the No side rather than face to face debate debunking these methodically and calmly.
I have never seen a respectful debate televised – maybe there were some in the early days. At present I feel we spit out polemic at each other with never the twain meeting on any common ground, and there must be some somewhere!
I enjoy a good slapping down (siobhan style) of an arrogant Yoon as much as anyone but I would love to see a civilised debate between the two sides setting out what it is that really separates us. If anything, British Nationalism might be finally acknowledged as the core value we know it to be.
Wishful thinking.
Robert Peffers
OMG
Are you saying you are NOT the Auld Bob who used to ply the indy cause with me circa 15 to 25 years ago back on social. Culture.Scottish?
If so, many apologies for some of my comments here which must have confused the Hello out of you.
As it is a bit quite here just now I’ll post this for a bit of interest. It is, mind you about the Treaty of Union and the actual conspiracy that begat it.
@Scottish Psyche
Sorry to interrupt but could you tell us which journalists were saying don’t upset the journalists and the BBC? It sounds like a threat from frustrated hacks.
Sky press preview, all the papers carrying the May speech hype. Agree that its been leaked to get reaction all round
Seems clear about free movement is a red line. Incredible hypocrisy when the UK is seeking to recruit from abroad to shore up NHS.
I think the announcement from the Netherlands blocking trade deals if no agreement on tax avoidance is VERY significant, and as pet usual, being ignored by the Press.
I think the previous speculation about a trade deal with EU taking 10 years is getting more likely.
We really need out of this mess. This corrupt Union is circling the drain, and we will be taken down.
BBC Scotland twerps do enjoy poverty porn but this is not a that good a thing says Graun.
link to theguardian.com
“Here comes the b..”
Roll on Tuesday.
Top story on the Guardian website what May’s about to announce in her speech apparently, what’s sneaky is the continuation of the ‘lie’ that Barnier has intimated a ‘special deal’ at the end of this article. They are pushing the same lie over and over, do they hope that by just publishing lies that this will somehow make it ‘true’?
‘The details of May’s speech have emerged the day after the EU’s chief negotiator offered the first hint of a compromise from Brussels to ensure that member states continue to have easy access to the City. According to unpublished minutes seen by the Guardian, Michel Barnier indicated that he wants the remaining 27 countries to have a “special relationship” with the financial markets of the City of London.’
link to archive.is
My guess would be Theresa May has finally got the message that the EU wont deal on what she wants so the plan B would be to introduce a low tax haven economy for business to try and attract new business from around the world
The problem she’ll have with that plan is the EU will fight tooth and nail against a race to the bottom economy which might increase business in London England but impoverish the ordinary population everwhere else almost back to serfdom and of course attempting to steal EU business on the cheap from the 27 who are not going to like it will annoy the EU and they’ll look for ways to punish England for trying it
We’re getting close to the big moment if this is true, there’ll be a huge row coming from Scotland Ireland and even Wales over this
It’s a Tory plan for rich Tory business and right back to the original trickle down nonsense the Tories love
Ah the sound of cricket balls hitting tariffs as the poor people serve tea on the village green and call the wealthy Madame and Sir just like they used to do in the good old days when the poor knew their place and who their masters and mistresses were
The smell of the country houses being renovated once again, gardeners tending and cook preparing lunch
Tweet Tweet Moo (country noises there) Baaaa!
Tweet Tweet Moo? You should get out more.Dr Jim
The Elephant is a bonnie bird
It flits from bough to bough
It makes it’s nest
In a rhubarb tree
And it whistles
Like a cow.
🙂
Apart from that, I totally agree.
Peace Always
It’s high the cuckoo, low the cuckoo, high the cuckoo’s nest
It’s high the cuckoo, low the cuckoo, high the cuckoo’s nest
I’ll give any maid a shilling and a bottle of the best
Just to rumple up the feathers of her cuckoo’s nest
Hasn’t got a lot to do with much all the same.
Yesindyref2:
We’ve done not too bad, for this time on a Sunday morning.
I’d like to report that our Borders are safe and secure.
Peace Always
Links
link to indyref2.scot
link to rbs.postach.io
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
link to iainmacwhirter.wordpress.com
Unelected May to call for national unity in major Brexit speech
link to archive.is
A C Grayling calls for general strike against Brexit
link to archive.is
link to politico.eu
link to europaunited.eu
Former MI6 agent Christopher Steele’s frustration as FBI sat on Donald Trump Russia file for months
link to archive.is
EU universal income must be ‘seriously considered’
link to archive.is
link to tradebetablog.wordpress.com
link to hrw.org
The BUM scrapes the bottom of the gutter with today’s Sunday Express headline – “Russian spies worked for UK split – Putin’s agents are “supporting” drive for Scots independence”. – notice how the cowards put supporting in quotes. This will work against the lying swine!
Nana: Good Morning,
I panicked last night, I thought you were giving away my breakfast links at 10:30. 🙂
Thank you, Kettle’s on
@Smallaxe
Good morning, sorry I missed your comment on previous thread yesterday morn. I’ve managed to pick up some kind of fluey thing, I’m not functioning on all cylinders, head full of fuzz!
‘Twas midnight on the ocean
Where rain fell just like glass
And a barefooted boy with shoes on
Stood sitting on the grass
And much other nonsense besides. I wonder how much more will flower during the week?
Nana:
Please look after yourself, your health is more important than links, take it easy for a couple of days, please.
Peace Always xx
@Smallaxe
Doesn’t seem to be any hostiles here in North Ayrshire.
Some of us have to do the night watch!
Nana
Smallaxe @ 8.28 ….Is right Nana, look after yourself,just let us know how you are doing,and take a bit of R&R…xx
Yesindyref2:
And we’re so unappreciated 🙁
Peace Always
The National’s editor made a very good speech which included journalism in general. This was not an SNP greetin-meetin, everybody got a crack at the whip & if some folks didn’t like it? that’s tough. There must be something in Scottish DNA which tends to factionalism & gaun in the huff. Only Scotland had more than half a dozen flavours of Presbyterianism with one Kirk to attend and the rest to enthusiastically avoid! So Cat Boyd doesn’t float your particular boat? tough-titty! the lassie from the Greens upset your sensibilities? get used tae it!
We can’t pass the budget without Green support & there will be no Indyref2 without their agreement.
@Nana
Mr MacWhirter’s, Scotgoespop and Reuters articles all on song. From this morning’s news feeds I’m seeing the yoonitariat bracing themselves for a midweek speech which will signal a hard brexit (like there was going to be any other).
SC ruling not far off too. Hmmmm.
Then comes the First Minister’s response.
Should be an interesting couple of weeks. 🙂
Morning All
…. I go out for a very pleasant evening with Mrs Sensible and I log on this morning to read all this! You wait until you know i am not there and then you write lots of nasty things.
Anyway, just watched Andy Carroll’s magnificent goal for the mighty Hammers, Andrew Marr has just started, so I will leave you to each other this morning.
BTW – Robert Peffers – could you just write a few lines explaining the history of the Union please. (fetch!)
@Fred
hehe 🙂
Nana,
sounds as if you’ve got the same sort of virus that I had a couple of weeks before Christmas. Rest, paracetamol and plenty of fluids. That’s the cure, but it’s a wee beggar to shift. Look after yourself.
It’s like one those clockwork windup set of false teeth.
Turn the little knob and off it goes, chatter, chatter, chatter. Never saying anything but funny as all fuck.
@Smallaxe & Liz I think the worst is past, at least I hope so.
****************************************
Hammond and May the tag team from hell.
link to welt.de
‘IF’ this speech is as billed, I’d expect no immediate call for an indyref. I suspect the SG will dot the ‘i’ and cross the ‘t’ on process.
SC ruling, parliamentary committees in Holyrood and Westminster, possible debates and votes in both chambers etc. In fact I’d be surprised if any trigger is pulled before A50 is set in motion. Rhetoric and speeches aren’t enough. It’s going to take one partner committing an act against the express wishes of the other to start the ball rolling.
@fred.
Yep, I don’t care if anyone has middle, right or left leaning tendencies. All have good points to offer.
Scotland first, we can sort the politics after Indy
I watched most of the SIC and thought it was very good. Missed the first speech by Angela Constance but hope to see that on livestream.
Tommy Sheppard was excellent as was Dr Craig Dalzell who talked through the poll findings and what we need to do. Richard Walker encouraged tolerance of journalists, many of them are supportive or soft NOs.
The Wee Blue Book got a shout out during Lesley Riddoch’s vox pop session. Robin MacAlpine led a feedback session on where the attendees stood on issues like currency, taking on the debt etc.
Yes there was a more Party political contribution from a Green and Cat Boyd. But also an enthusiastic contribution from a Women for Independence speaker. Patrick Harvie summed up well at the end.
Elaine C Smith was a great MC, the hall was packed with a keen audience and ideas were buzzing.
What’s not to like? Indyref2 will be different but the energy is there in spades.
@k1
The city was always going to benefit out of brexit. Remember, the uk public is still on the hook for about £5 trillion in bank liabilities if you inclue derivatives.
Uh oh, Corbyn said ‘all’ nations of the UK’
Surely he means ‘both’..
The annexed English regions of Wales and N.I. are part of the ‘England’ that joined with Scotland three hundred years ago.
@Capella
That sounds like a good summary. Sure, there are characters speaking, I could see far enough, but I’m sure the overall event was stimulating, and that’s what’s needed.
I don’t care who they are, as long as we are all facing the same way, come the campaign, so we all pull our hardest, because this is so crucial.
It really will be a generation if we don’t succeed this time.
Fred
You entirely missed the point of the Convention.
sensibledave still hasn’t answered me as to what rank he holds in 77 brigade.
James Caithness says:
15 January, 2017 at 9:55 am
sensibledave still hasn’t answered me as to what rank he holds in 77 brigade.
Ha ha. Private.
….I’ll get ma coat.
How to answer your own stuff,
“So Cat Boyd doesn’t float your particular boat? tough-titty! the lassie from the Greens upset your sensibilities? get used tae it!”
“We can’t pass the budget without Green support & there will be no Indyref2 without their agreement.”
Neatly explains why they got massive MSM coverage last GE, pulling votes away from SNP and have never been heard of again, shock.
James Caithness 9.55
Haha James. So this is the latest incarnation of my persona is it.
Robert Peffers – generally
Robert, for the purpose of clarity henceforth, could you take a few moments just to define your use of the term “Little Englander”.
Do you have a particular profile in mind i.e. where they live, what they do for work, how much money they have – or is it general racial stereotype of millions of people with whom you may have different political views.
Whilst considering your response and before you embarrass yourself further, please check the outcome of the EU referendum vote in London and the South East region.
… I’ll leave it with you Robert
@ Valerie – I should have posted the website link. There are short highlights in the sidebar but the whole stream seems to be available.
link to livestream.com
Hugely informative piece here in German paper, interview with Hammond. He is hard line, harking back to the past, and basically saying EU can gtf.
UK will present their terms, if the 27 don’t agree, UK will ‘change their economic model’. That’s the race to the bottom, slashing taxes.
That’s why Netherlands have issued their warning.
For the EU geeks, read this!
link to welt.de
‘The city was always going to benefit out of brexit. Remember, the uk public is still on the hook for about £5 trillion in bank liabilities if you inclue derivatives.’
Not really ma point thought ScottieDog, was it? 🙂
77 Brigade:
Rank?.. Just RANK!
Peace Always
@Breeks
Privates I think, as in clutching.
@Sensibledave,
Little Englander ? You don’t need an explanation——–a mirror will suffice.
Robert, for the purpose of clarity henceforth, could you take a few moments just to define your use of the term “Little Englander”.
Farage is a horrible example of the little Englander sensible. He’s like you sometimes though, sneaky, creepy, then instantly enraged at anyone that doesnt want to ruled by little Englanders, like you sensible.
Its merely like watching your fury at any Scot that says anything that threatens the UK, what makes little England a lot bigger than logic dictates, and to a lot of people’s detriment too, from south east of England.
Heed, keep picking at the scabs pal, the way forward?
Fred says:
15 January, 2017 at 10:47 am
Heed, keep picking at the scabs pal, the way forward?
What’s your prob now. You neatly explained the how and why of the last GE, in one comment, is my point. See the latest WoS blog too, Fred.
Let’s wynd this down, he’s only asking Robert about ‘little Englander’ to ‘prove’ we’re all really ‘anti-english’. Desperate wee Davey boy cannae respond to any of Robert’s salient points so resorts to insult and condescension. Nothing tae see here…just the usual little englander fulminating and pissing on people that see through his agenda for what it is. Clinging by his nails to the cliffs of Dover while Merry England commits fiscal and moral harm upon itself whistling God save the Queen.
He’s not waving people…he’s drowning.
Bob Mack 10.38
… but, but, but Robert Peffers writes on the basis of an assertion that “Little Englanders” voted to leave the EU??????
…. I think you are a little “confused” Bob.
Come on people, you are supposed to be interested in politics. If these types of stereotypings represent the depth of thought you are using and relying upon to judge future outcomes then you will inevitably be wrong.
Come on people, you are supposed to be interested in politics. If these types of stereotypings represent the depth of thought you are using and relying upon to judge future outcomes then you will inevitably be wrong.
Its little Englander what won it sensible. 5.4 million English immigrants to lovely places like Oz, NZ, Spain, is just great. Anyone doing the same and emigrating to the UK zone is a very bad thing. How much “little Englander” can it get sensible?
A lot of little Englanders like to explain their Leave vote immigration stuff as “controlled.” Immigration by little Englanders is great to hot sunny countries is great because its controlled. Its not controlled into little England, a small island that’s full up now, a small island called little England sensible, between your ears.
@Boris
You said
EU Commissioners do not vote on anything.
They are the “unelected bureaucrats” much hated by the Brexiteers. The nearest equivalent is the people the US President elect gets to put up for the Executive Branch i.e. running US Government Departments. Each member State gets to nominate one commissioner and they do go through an approval process by the EU parliament.
@Peffers
Exports are not counted purely by the eporting pot. That calculates the grand total for the UK. Allocation defaults to the VAT code location (Head Office)unless the company /bothers to report differently. I am not sure, but I don’t think such reporting is mandatory.
Because people questioned why Scottish whiskey was allocated to England, the big Whiskey companies do not get away with that any more, but I doubt if that applies with other exports, especially where Scottish made parts go into English assembled goods.
Because people questioned why Scottish whiskey was allocated to England, the big Whiskey companies do not get away with that any more, but I doubt if that applies with other exports, especially where Scottish made parts go into English assembled goods.
Big whiskey is extremely tory and extremely NO, simply because they’re desperate to stop profit tax hikes.
@ScottishPsyche says: 15 January, 2017 at 12:31 am:
” … but it is not me who needs convincing. The ‘deficit’, pensions and currency are all issues that have achieved mythical status“.
Not to worry, ScottishPsyche, i did realise your point of view but took the chance to debunk the three big myths.
All this is the big problem we have always had with the Westminster Establishments hold over the broadcast and dead tree media.
Independence activists know the real facts and the Britnats know the real facts. It is those in the middle, disconnected from political matters, we need to inform. Those Joe & Josephine Publics who don’t know the truth and sadly they don’t want to know the truth are what stands between us and independence.
The YES to independence faction have only a few outlets to inform the Joe and Josephine members of the public but those misinformed people have switched of to all political matters. Simply put they are not anti-independence nor pro-independence. They just do not want to get involved.
This is why it is taking so long for the independence movement to make that final gain in support. We have no control over the media and, to date, no effective way of getting to the, relatively small number, of misinformed people in the middle with the information that will inform them.
These people really do not want to know for they have switched off to politics. It is a bit like, Dyslexia and Dyscalculia, a sort of blindness to political matters.
To date we can only get to them by knocking on their doors. That is the very hardest part for campaigners but although the results are slow they are going only one way – towards independence.
The plain facts are that Westminster controls the media but they have shown they cannot get boots on the ground except by paying for them and bussing them into Scotland.
We are going to win but it is painfully slow to get that final push over the line. I suspect that when it happens it will trigger an avalanche so powerful it will sweep everything before it away in a flash.
Independence will come very swiftly when it finally crosses that last few paces to the finishing line and that finishing line is well within our view right now.
A little while ago I posted this YouTube link to the late Jim Peters failure in the Olympics marathon, Jim tried too hard to break the long help Olympics record.
link to youtube.com
His heart-breaking and heroic efforts to cross the final few yards and set a new time failed because he tried too much too soon. They are a lesson we should never forget.
Thanks Nana at 8:08am for all your links,particularly in my opinion,the News Management from BBC Northern Btitain regarding Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn MP and his MSP in Scotland Kezia Dugdale:
link to indyref2.scot
Capelea @9.36
It’s all very well Richard Walker defending journalists who may or may not be sympathetic to independence or soft NOs.
However, any journalists who lie or deliberately mislead should be shown no mercy.
@heedtracker
I don’t think it is a coincidence that it was the Whiskey Distillers Association in London that took the SG to court over minimum unit pricing.
However, they know their figures for Whiskey are watched.
I wonder how good a job they do on their other product lines – like Gin, for example.
“My guess would be Theresa May has finally got the message that the EU wont deal on what she wants” that’s my take on it too @ Dr Jim says at 5:32 am.
Then we have Philip Hammond making noises about the financial framework of the EU.
End game is insight.
Best thing Scots Gov can do is let it all unfold and wait until the point of no return is reached.
Once the real world ramifications of Brexit to the man & woman in the street is obvious/starting to be felt (Employment Law protections, cost of goods & services etc.)
Then it’s all aboard the Indy Ref 2 lifeboat while Little England sinks.
My only hope is that it will focus the minds of the ordinary English and Welsh voter that the Tory Right & UKIP have sacrificed them on the alter of big business and casino banking.
I’m content to be in a minority, but I still think Indyref2 is turning up with a knife at a gun fight. I just don’t feel much jeopardy being delivered behind “if we don’t get our way Theresa, we’ll have a referendum”.
All I hear is Westminster heaving a sigh of relief, picking up the BBC hotline and giving the secret launch codewords “Project Fear 2”. – That’s the same BBC as 2014 by the way, which still doesn’t have any effective countermeasure apart from its own hubris and excess.
I’m not exactly worried about a referendum, we probably would win, and even if we didn’t, I’m not in the camp which believes another failure in Indyref2 is the end of the Independence journey. What worries me about another referendum is the effect it has upon the ace up our sleeve, Scottish sovereignty. Say, just for example, Scotland did run Indyref2, lost it by a mere whisker, then sought to invoke our unique sovereignty to pull Scotland out of the fire and stay in Europe. In that scenario, there seems a desperation which would I fear provoke much agitation and anger amongst Unionists, who would refuse to engage with the sovereignty argument wholesale. Nobody likes surprises, especially when you trump democracy by pulling a rabbit from a hat. It’s not the right way.
Isn’t it much more sensible to pull the covers of this sovereignty issue now? That doesn’t mean we having to immediately press the nuclear option “sovereignty” button, but merely make the existence of our nuclear sovereignty option common knowledge.
“We’re not threatening you with a referendum Theresa. If you take the UK out of Europe, then by that act, the UK ceases to be, because it is the will of the sovereign people of Scotland to stay in Europe”. What part of that requires any further democratic referendum? Let Theresa May revisit her own referendum, and change the terms of her Brexit referendum; Brexit also means divorce from Scotland. Do you still want to proceed? Yes/No (Viewers in Scotland have their own programs).
Let’s turn the screw, and start seeking the opinion of EU member states, but not just on Scottish EU membership, but on the central principle of Scottish sovereignty itself.
For the record, I don’t buy the argument that electing Scottish MPs for Westminster is an effective mechanism for engaging Scottish sovereignty in the UK’s parliament. It isn’t. Yes, at times it can be, that’s the trick it pulls. Whenever Westminster abides by the will of Scottish MP’s, then that’s fine, everybody is happy. Scotland’s sovereign will is implemented. However, where there is dispute, where Westminster rejects the opinion from Scotland and overturns Scotland’s opinion by force of its inbuilt numerical majority, then Westminster is assuming an authority that is superior to Scottish sovereignty, and that’s where it all crumbles to dust, because that is a faux superiority without any foundation or basis in law. Sovereignty is absolute, or it isn’t sovereignty at all.
All Scottish “independence” requires is that Scotland’s elected representatives cease the practice of forsaking the binding nature of Scottish sovereignty, and discontinue with their misplaced respect for the faux superior sovereignty of Westminster. When Scotland speaksthrough its ballot box or returned MP’s, it expresses a sovereign opinion, a rightfully sovereign voice which has no rightful superior to outrank it. Westminster can agree with option, it can disagree with that opinion, but what it cannot do is overturn it.
If the Scottish Independence movement is serious about encouraging debate and developing a pro-Indy consensus that includes both radical and mainstream voices, then forget the Greens and RIC, what I want to know where that solemn body of pedantic, truculent bookworms, the “Radical Constitutional Law Enforcers” hold their party conference? Because I want to join those radical subversives and whip up some enthusiasm for getting their stubborn and pedantic clusterbombs about the truth of Scottish sovereignty launched into this “broad” agenda of debate.
Go ahead Theresa. Finish this Union whenever you’re ready. Or shall we just let Nicola do the honours?
bjsalba says:
15 January, 2017 at 12:25 pm
@heedtracker
We need to turn booze as toxic as fags. Its that simple and just like big fags, big whiskey will fight it all the way.
People abroad and not the USA, think our piss artistry isnt funny, its mental illness.
Also if Philip Hammond is threatening the financial framework of the EU and looking at a tax haven type arrangements for UK does he seriously think the EU won’t support the aspirations of an iScotland (even if it is just as a big f*ck you to the Tories)
At least the experts can spell Gin!
sensibledave still didn’t answer my question.