…to reporting of opinion polls in the Scottish media! These are all from today:
“More than half of Scots live on ready meals or takeaways at least three times a week, according to a new poll.”
Vital data, there. And definitely more interesting and important than learning that two-thirds of Scots don’t believe the promises of improved devolution after a No vote.
“Almost one-quarter of young people in Scotland believe a woman who is drunk or dressed provocatively is partly responsible if she is raped, a survey says.”
So the vast majority don’t believe that, then? Good news. (Though we’re rather surprised to note the absence of detail on how that proportion breaks down by gender. We’d have thought it would be quite a significant aspect of the information.)
“The latest polling analysis about voting intentions in the 2014 independence referendum may be discouraging for the pro-independence campaign, but back-slapping in the pro-Union camp would be highly premature.” (Herald)
“Almost half of Scots remain undecided over how, or if, they will vote in next year’s independence referendum, new research has shown.” (Scotsman)
“Analysis of the figures – which are based on Ipsos MORI’s last five polls from the beginning of 2012 onwards – means around seven out of ten of those who are uncertain need to vote yes in order for Yes Scotland to win.” (STV)
Interesting definitions of “latest” and “new”, for information that is in fact gleaned from study of a bunch of polls up to a year and a half old. Oddly, a one-week-old poll which also showed a surprisingly high level of indecision hadn’t been worthy of mention.
Your Scottish media, folks. It’s actually too funny to be angry about.
Rev, there is such a vital story right here with all this so a) I’m sure this won’t go away however much they try to ignore it and b) whatever the MSM believe, their deliberate and co-ordinated stifling of the WoS poll won’t help the Unionist cause in the long run.
Onwards and upwards.
Which is why I suggested a second poll at some point.
Once might be considered oversight / coincidence, but if they ignore a second one . . .
On a related matter, why isn’t the official YES campaign doing this sort of thing as well? I’d like to see a bit more creative thinking from them.
We can generalise, the growth in the undecideds is matched by the decrease in the NO vote.
Now that is telling us something, which the WoS poll shows that negative campaigning doesn’t work. It turns voters off.
The Better Together campaign is failing to maintain the NO vote majority.
I’m just getting more and more disappointed at the YES campaign.. They don’t give any support to anything that is trying to ‘help the cause’. If they continue like this – with no teeth- we are in danger of loosing. If we do win it won’t be in large part the Yes Campaign’s contribution.
I think Salmond referred to the phoney war not that long ago. I’m fairly convinced that once a few more ducks are in a row, white paper, draft constitution and some movement from the numpties in the EU coupled with entering the referendum year we will see a significant ramping up of the Yes campaign. If there is one thing that the SNP have demonstrated in the past it is that can do vibrant and engaging campaigns.
We on the Yes side have been active and have a much bigger on-line presence and have been keeping the fires burning but in truth voters tend to disregard what was said and what happened 18 months to two years ago and vote with how what is happening in the here and now. Better Together’s 4 million leaflets were a waste of good trees, no one will remember them by Sept 2014. They will have to do it all again.
On polls did I hear right (radio this morning) that the Hoot has a two page spread on a new IPSOS poll today that shows that 44% are undecided? That is a hell of a lot of undecideds.
The MSM may have tried hard to ignore the WoS poll results, and pretend it did not happen, but the speed at which the Nate Silver article emerged indicates that they are seriously rattled. A second crowd-funded poll is a good idea, but not too soon. The painful after shocks of the first one are still reverberating.
Here’s to the next episode of seismic activity.
I’m expecting at least two further polls.
Just ask for the money and you’ll receive it.
Scott
Don’t forget that WE are the YES campaign…
There’s an interesting IPSOS/MORI ‘map’ of the Yes vote in today’s Scotsman (can’t do the archive thing, so won’t give the link) which purports to show a geographical breakdown of the Yes vote. If we assume the usual sample size of roughly 1,000, the presence of one or two Yes or No voters in an area would seem to be sufficient to colour a whole swatch of landscape pro or anti.
Dunbar is solidly <25% yes. That would be Mrs Macdonald. Wigtown, on the other hand, is rabidly pro Indy – doubtless Jimmy from the garage.
There’s a dam out there with a lot behind it, it’s leaking and it will burst. Only the media that report the truth of events will come out of this with any credit. Why is democracy in any other country so important to them but not here in Scotland?
44% undecided and more than a year to go.
Two days ago, they were saying it was all over – YES had nae chance!
What is going on?
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you”.
They are doing all of these at the same time.
When i compare Snowdon and the risks he took to the abject cowardice of journalists on the Scottish papers I feel a sense of shame; is this all we have.The company where he had his account closed itself down, as the owner said, rather than commit a criminal act against the American people by releasing the data it stores to the US Government.
I happened to see an episode of a new BBC Scotland ‘drama’ set in the 80s, of tough Scottish journalists putting their lives on the line to follow a story about corruption and censorship. It should be filed under fantasy comedy.
Scottish Journalism.
“Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away”.
Is the over arching narrative moving to “too fat, too drunk, still stupid”?
Sorry but you are being naive. Just like the Loyalists in independent America, or the Unionists in independent Ireland or the Pied Noir in independent Algeria, Scottish Unionists know that (regardless of the cuddly noises coming from the Yes Campaign) they have no place and/or future in an independent Scotland.
This turn of events may not be fair, and I don’t mean to suggest that they will be subject to any sort of official or institutional restriction. However, the fact is that Independence will give us a renewed sense of purpose and the confidence to repair and build our country, and in such circumstances there will little public space or appetite for the views and values of those who believe Scotland’s only destiny is that inadequacy and failure.
The rehash of the IPSOS_MORI polls is just an attempt to defuse the latest Panelbase poll. The trend in the panelbase polls are worrying the No camp.
The reporting of the analysis of old No-narrative-supporting polls (reheated cabbage) whilst ignoring the fresh wild salmon of our poll last week, shows the clear intent of the HeeHaw campaign to selectively use/misuse opinion polls as their main howitzer ammunition against Yes. Opinion poll results are probably the nearest thing the No campaign has to ‘facts’. This is why our poll has spooked them so much.
I reckon the main reason for MSM reporting the analysis of old polls (and I would suggest for the company involved doing it in the first place) is to repeat and reinforce the misleading and undermining notion that No has a substantial lead voting-intention-wise. Together with scab and nit picking and scaremongering, it is a key component of their ‘hearts and minds’ campaign – the message that being pro-Yes is to be the ‘other’.
If the numbers go 50/50 Yes/No with 6 months to go, never mind a year to go, No are stuffed, and they know that.
The ‘normalisation’ of being pro-Yes, the increased confidence, that a 50/50 situation will bring (if it not here already) is one thing – the other thing is that a nationally and internationally reported No lead (whether real or manufactured, in collusion with some of the more crypto-unionist pollsters) will give valuable cover for dirty tricks (re which “hello” to the MI5 officer who is monitoring this site – or is it, ironically, MI6?) in the coming months. It will be much more difficult for black-ops to be noticed and/or believed, both here, and importantly internationally, if it is generally accepted that a No victory looks like being the result: there will be less suspicions, less scrutiny, less belief regarding Yes claims of dirty tricks (which will be attempted, have no doubt about that).
So even if it is 50/50, as our poll has shown that it is very close to being, the No campaign will do all that they can to keep that quiet, unknown to as many people, as possible: hence the godsend to them of Nate Silver’s self-and-book promoting quotes, which were perfect for national and international narrative-fitting headlines; and, as a bonus, the opportunity, seized with both hands, to repeat the ‘No-is-well-ahead’ mantra on the back of reporting on the analysis of old (some of them outlier) polls.
@kininvie
Yep, I’m not sure if Ipsos have quite distinguished their arses from their elbows when it comes to Scotland.
‘Mr Diffley also identified a clear link between support for independence and those living in deprived areas.
“Support for independence is mainly higher, at 50 per cent or more, in neighbourhoods across the Central Belt, some up in Aberdeen and in other pockets of the country,” he said.
“What we find is that areas that suffer from deprivation tend to be areas where you are likely to find support for independence to be at its highest.”’
Aberdeen deprived? Really?
What the media are doing is scunnering us with poll/survey data so that any promising poll info is lost.
Reference M K Gandhi, WOS is being ignored by them.
The next stage “they laugh at you”. surely out of sequence as they sure ain’t laughing,Blair McDougal is snarling more like.
“Then they come to fight you”. With what? – Celebrating the start of WW1? Bringing the UK cabinet to Scotland? Another royal mouth to feed? Lies,distortions, and suppression of the news?
From Twitter – apparently the Herald are holding a debate / panel discussion on the role of the media in Indy ref at the spiegeltent in George Street on August 20 at 12.30
That’s even more than the 30% undecided the WoS Panelbase poll threw up. Given that people who register for Panelbase may be a bit more likely to have an opinion than the public in general, it seems quite plausible.
But how does that square with the procession of polls all reporting <20% undecided? I think a lot of the polls have been pushing undecideds to give an answer, and these undecideds have been pushed more to No than to Yes. I also think the Yes vote is pretty solid, given that it’s held up at over 30% of the total electorate despite about two years of unremitting Project Fear. I also think the No vote is as soft as margarie that’s been left out in the sun. And I’m talking about the real No vote, not just the undecideds who’re saying No to the pollsters.
This seems fairly obvious just looking at the figures. This is what the papers should be discussing. They should be discussing the opportunities and prospects and choices that can open up with independence, not spending every waking moment rubbishing the prospect. I’m scunnered with the lot of them.
Is this for real?
link to thecourier.co.uk
“Is this for real?”
Keep up, Susan. That was YESTERDAY’S news! 😀
Looks like the attempted smear has backfired, judging by the comments.
If you are in Edinburgh – tell them face to face!
<blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p>Want to debate the role of the media in Indy ref? Our panel discussion at the famous spiegeltent in George St Edinburgh on Aug 20 at 12.30</p>— sunday herald (@newsundayherald) <a href=”link to twitter.com“>August 15, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src=”//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>
Friends, beneath the surface of Aberdeen lies widespread deprivation. In Northfield 35% Child Poverty; Tillydrone, Seaton, Old Aberdeen 30%; City Centre, Torry, Hilton, Old Aberdeen 27%.
Up here we have rich, middle and poor. And being poor up here is hell because of the high cost of living.
Interesting twitter exchange between Rev Stu and Alex Massie just now.
Massie says Ipsos figure of ‘a mere 56% of Scots are “certain to vote” in the independence referendum’ is damning. Rev replies with commendable succinctness ‘Where “damning” means “bollocks”. <80% will astonish me.’ Massie realises that he misread the figs and it’s actually 74% certain to vote, just not decided which way. Ipsos’s June poll for the UK GE showed only 56% absolutely certain to vote, so looks like the Scottish electorate is certainly bucking general trends for voter engagement.
Alex Massie is actually one of the brighter sort-of-maybe-Unionists, but it’s depressing that even he indulges in the headlong rush to think the worst.
People who are upset at YES Campaigns inactivity need to be alittle more patient. This is just placing pieces on the board time. Its rope-a-dope and no mistake. NO have been shouting loudly since they had to change to a more positive sounding name and no-one is listening. Spent is a word that comes to mind.
Every reason I have personally heard from individuals about going Independent has been easy to refute…by the time we get to the vote, everyone and their granny will know ALL the facts, and more importantly will know them all at the exact time it matters.
If you think big Blair is snarling now, imagine what he’s gonna be like a year from now when hes mumbling “But…but…we must have something to offer them”.
I think a lot of the polls have been pushing undecideds to give an answer, and these undecideds have been pushed more to No than to Yes.
That’s pretty much the case although it’s not intentional; they want a Y/N figure as that’s great headline stuff.
Ask people how definite they are, whether they might change their minds etc, and suddenly everything looks very different.
People should not worry too much about Y/N right now; trends are of interest, but Y/N will only start to become a predictor of the result in the weeks ahead of voting day.
Note the MORI results, if correct, are a disaster for the pro-union campaign. They’re being spun in a way that sounds like Yes have a mountain to climb, but that’s just because they’re bad for No. BT are aware of the emerging problem they face, hence all this new talk of it ‘not being won yet’ and ‘no complacency’.
TYPO:
Every reason I have personally heard from individuals against going Independent has been easy to refute
Spent is a word that comes to mind.
In both senses. Granted, a lot of their publicity is free courtesy of their friends in the MSM, but they’re still spending money out of a fixed budget.
We can be fairly sure the Yes vote is a solid 30% and according to this article nearly half are undecided ( say 45%), then the solid No must be 25%. Why then do the Yes side need to convert 75% of No voters? I’m sure I read that very recently.
I used to think I was quite good at Maths. I was obviously mistaken.
I don’t know much about the panel base poll (apart from the results), but is it seen as official enough? Is it somehow verified as independent and constructed properly etc. Do people trust ipsos,mori more ? Political wrangling aside for one second, but could this be why your panel base poll is being ignored?
Sorry I meant 75% of undecideds.
15th August. Quote from the Scotsman’s Mac Nabb;
‘The two most recent polls, both carried out by Panelbase for the Sunday times.’
Surely that’s tantamount to lying?
“15th August. Quote from the Scotsman’s Mac Nabb;
‘The two most recent polls, both carried out by Panelbase for the Sunday times.’
Surely that’s tantamount to lying?”
He’d doubtless say they were the last two polls to directly ask the referendum question.
‘Ipsos’s June poll for the UK GE showed only 56%* absolutely certain to vote, so looks like the Scottish electorate is certainly bucking general trends for voter engagement.’
*For the sake of complete veracity, that should be 57%.
Yep, ‘polls’ reveal – as the BBC were good enough to remind us this morning – that SCOTLAND-IS-FAT! And, according to Louise White on Call Kaye, it’s worse than even she thought. It must be really bad.
Fat people don’t deserve independence, as Aristotle once said.
Let’s keep it as our secret, from now on, and if anyone asks we’ll say it’s none of their business.
Tantamount (slaps self)
“Tantamount (slaps self)”
THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT YOU SAID.
I see a lot of folk here and on other pro-indy sites worry a lot about the apparent lack of vigour in the YES campaign. Remember that officially campaigning doesn’t begin until 3 months before the vote, that’s a legal thing and can’t be undone. Right now it’s really about discussing, debunking and generally sorting the wheat from the chaff which is what we are witnessing despite the worrying underlying Imperialist agenda.
Full on campaigning for 3 months is very expensive and has to be funded and sustained to the last possible minute if it’s going to have the desired effect, so perhaps we are becoming unnecessarily exercised by this issue so early on. Remember also that the matter will be decided not by us who are already passionately engaged, but by the majority who will be either inspired or put off by the campaign proper, so it seems to me that keeping ones powder dry until the most opportune moment is a good strategy, particularly given the relentless negativity coming from the No camp, in the end most folk will stop listening to them.
On the other hand, 3 months of sustained positive campaigning for a YES vote will capture the voters imagination, and when coupled with the other positive messages and world-class events will prove to be the unionist nightmare they are so desperate to prevent.
Get the beers in.
Slaps self again…, but harder.
Jeez they really didn’t like the Wings poll did they?
Not only completely ignoring it but writing it out of the history books. And they wonder why the vast majority of the public think they reek. 🙂
I see quite a lot of comments regarding the ‘inactivity’ of the Yes side. I suppose it depends how you define ‘inactivity’ and where you are. Every day here in Dundee someone somewhere in the city gets a leaflet or has a canvasser at the door. I see numerous local groups and niche groups have sprung up all of the country. If you expecting activity is based on what you see on the BBC or in newspapers then you think there is not much activity. Help out if you can as I do every week.
Fat people don’t deserve independence, as Aristotle once said.
LOL
If everything is so crap now why are we better off in the Union?
Scotland is fat – that must mean we’re well-off.
@HandandShrimp;
Frantically rummaging for skipping rope.
but is it not just YES Voters that are too fat.
not those nice lovely No voters ,they are skinny
Why then do the Yes side need to convert 75% of No voters? I’m sure I read that very recently.
You probably learned Scottish maths. The 75% comes from Unionist maths.
Trying to improve myself and better fit into UK social norms – is it acceptable if I am striving not to be too fat and aspiring not to get too drunk?
If everything is so crap now why are we better off in the Union?
This attitude really, really bugs me. Here’s a recent example.
link to lockerbiecase.blogspot.co.uk
…. the tragedy of Lockerbie is not forgotten but is still very much a live issue. The failure by our government to act to remove this massive stain on Scotland’s justice system will I hope become part of the independence debate. Put simply I have no wish to belong to an independent Scotland where justice can so easily be cast aside in the name of political expediency.
Well, sweetheart, you live right now in a Union where exactly that is happening and is continuing to happen. Everything that happened in relation to Lockerbie, and indeed to Shirley’s case, happened under the union. Is the union addressing the issue? Is the union helping? Is there any sign that this mess will be resolved under the union? No to all of that.
Is there any reason to believe that this could get any worse in an idependent country? No, actually. Is there any natural law that says we have to wait unil everything is perfect and all injustices are corrected before we can be independent? Not that I know of.
But again and again we hear, this or that (that happened and is happening in the union) isn’t how I want an independent Scotland to be, so I’ll vote No. Basic logic fail.
BBC Scotland could well inspire another Yes group to emerge: Fatties for Independence…
Ianbrotherhood,
good luck with the meet/party on Saturday. Wish I could be there but I’m not home until mid October early Nov. I’m dead jealous! (and I will miss the Edinburgh march/rally too!).
Gawd, I need a drink.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10244873/Nato-blow-to-SNPs-defence-plans-for-independent-Scotland.html
Anyone shed any light on this?
but is it not just YES Voters that are too fat.
not those nice lovely No voters ,they are skinny
Blair McDougall will get back to you on that one once he has finished his pie.
ianbrotherhood
Craving the Rev’s indulgence, but could you post your email here again. Can’t make tomorrow but would like to be kept in touch for future meets. Ta.
Morag,
laser surgery there! Well sliced.
Thanks.
@Ananurhing
Yep, they’re running a similar load of old tosh on the Guardian.
link to theguardian.com
Basically they’re spinning like mad over the old Nato in or out thread. Some chappies from Nato met some chappies from the SG and said. There’ll be problems with your Nato admittance if you are having and military or territorial disputes with your neighbour. This has been spun as… If you don’t keep the nukes on the Clyde you’re out.
How and ever there will be no dispute territorial or otherwise, this according to No. 10 itself.
link to theguardian.com
Sooooooooo, fear bomb of the day sorted.
And even on the remotest chance that Nato would chuck the baby out with the bath water, the SG reverts to their default position of PFP. Basically both the Guardian and the Telegraph are talking pants.
I think this is going to be a long war, certainly not be over by Christmas – sighs 😉
Enough of the negative waves Per Hogan’s Heroes.
Have been out in West Edinburgh with the green coloured YES leaflet and the flyer for the21st September rally. Excellent vibes from the people I met. BTW leafleting is not only good for the soul but is every bit as good exercise as jogging.Get out there folks,it’s not just historic but good fun.
Enough of the negative waves Per Hogan’s Heroes
Kelly’s. <pedantry>
@muttley 79
BBC Scotland could well inspire another Yes group to emerge: Fatties for Independence…
I resemble that remark. 🙂
Ananhuring
Two more articles for you
link to snp.org
link to bbc.co.uk
James Naughtie seemed a bit put out on Radio 4 this morning that the SG didn’t tell him of this meeting.
Ananhuring
I haven’t read the Telegraph piece but it is in other journals such as the Guardian. Basically the gist of the actual event is that as long as rUK and Scotland are not in territorial or military dispute NATO see no reason to exclude Scotland from their club. The Unionist press have taken that to mean that Faslane would be a territorial or military dispute. Westminster has already ruled out declaring Faslane sovereign territory so that would leave military dispute. I think the journalists concerned should be dropped somewhere where a military dispute is progress and see what that really means.
I’m actually impressed that NATO held talks and invited people from Holyrood. I’m not bothered about being in NATO but it is nice to see a bit of common sense being employed…not that you will get any of that in the MSM.
“Almost one-quarter of young people in Scotland believe a woman who is drunk or dressed provocatively is partly responsible if she is raped, a survey says.”
Holy God, that is a HORRIFIC statistic. Yes, Rev, it’s good that the vast majority disagree, but a whole quarter is a quarter too many for me. And some of the things in that are even worse:
More than one-sixth (17%) said rape happens because men are unable to control their need for sex.
Rape has nothing to do with sexual frustration. NOTHING. Holy Christ, this needs sorting out.
Just a thought her Teaninich et al.
Does that mean that the rUK would also be unable to be a member of Nato as they would be in dispute with the most important Nato centre of operations in the North Atlantic?
Sauce Goose and Gander?
Just posted on STV Facebook page asking why they did not report on the Panelbase poll and pointed out that I had asked the same question of BBC, so as not to be biased. Think the irony might be lost on them, though.
@Macart
I am not as slim as I used to be either.
Maybe the next WoS poll should ask the YES/no question directly in order to achieve MSM coverage. Panelbase polls for the Sunday Times run every two months. Why not sit the next poll in the middle of that two month gap?
If the response to the main question is covered by MSM, there’s a good chance they’ll also pick up on a few other key findings, which could follow up on some of the most interesting questions from the first poll.
I think this must be worth a try, as it removes any poor excuses the MSM have based upon the WoS not being comparable as it didn’t ask the main question.
@BTP
Good point. Still they are a founding member….
I suppose it depends on their definition of settlement at that stage. Really it kind of forces them into declaring their preferred settlement doesn’t it? They might just have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
Macart
Or maybe it is a gentle memo to FUKRS to get their finger out and prevent an internal Nato crisis?
@Bugger (the Panda)
Does that mean that the rUK would also be unable to be a member of Nato as they would be in dispute with the most important Nato centre of operations in the North Atlantic?
Sauce Goose and Gander?
Good point. And if rUK also in dispute with another NATO member, Spain, over Gibraltar?
Today started with a search for a game that my mate (40th birthday coming up) used to play…4D Driving…did a search and this review popped up….somehow the rant read ever so familiar:
link to amr.abime.net
O/T Anyone who has not see Laurie Clark’s (Conservative donor invited to meet Cameron) statements about the reasons why he’s voting Yes should read the report on Business for Scotland:
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
I’d especially welcome the Captain’s views on this.
@ Susan says:
Is this for real?link to thecourier.co.uk
Sounds absolutely authentic to me!
Alan Gerrish
Can you expand on that please?
@BTP
Either way I’m seeing more problems for W1 than Holyrood. Handandshrimp’s take is where I’m at. The fact that Nato is chatting directly to SG reps must have elements of UK gov sweating. 🙂
Macart
Agreed
SINISTER ALERT!
‘The two most recent polls, both carried out by Panelbase for the Sunday Times’
Not a repeat of my previous post but the exact same wording used in STV article as the Scotsman. Almost like someone’s handed out a line to follow? And I’m usually skeptical about things like this…,
link to news.stv.tv
All these polls, eh. It’s almost like Basil not mentioning the war. Must be one of those ear worms, dont mention the poll, and now they cant get “poll” out of their minds. Well, you thought it would set the agenda for the MSM and it has 🙂
macart
I note that UK Civil servants were present also athe meeting as well as Scottish Civil Servants
@Atypical Scot
Haven’t looked at who the ‘The two most recent polls, both carried out by Panelbase for the Sunday Times’ quote is attributed to in Hootsmon, but in STV it is the Yes campaign! (wi’ friends like these etc.)
A spokesman for Yes Scotland said: “As Mark Diffley pointed out, there is everything to play for in this referendum. The two most recent polls, both carried out by Panelbase for the Sunday Times, show that at this stage of the campaign a swing of under five per cent is needed to put yes ahead.”
@BTP
I haven’t stopped smiling since I saw the report. Nato discussions directly with SG reps, UK gov reps in attendance (not the centre of attention)? Oh dang, there was no doubt they’d have to put a spin on that and this was the best they could come up with. Their spin however is several weeks too late as usual ‘overtaken by events’. Since Downing Street publicly slapped down the M.O.Ds halfwitted sovereign territory proposal it kind of kicks territorial dispute into touch. 😀
macart
Zipeedeedooda
@Beachthistle;
Quite true, however, I doubt that a Yes Scotland spokesman actually said that. That’s what’s sinister. Why would they? As far as I’m aware, Yes Scotland welcomed the poll, maybe I’m wrong? Maybe there was no Yes Scotland spokesman at all????
X-files music starts in brain…,
Scottish Daily Mail
Bad-natured boos stick in the throat
“Ah, the famous Tartan Army… More than 20,000 of them were inside Wembley and ‘traded’ national anthems with the England fans throughout the second half as the match ebbed one way and then the other. The sing-off was generally good-natured but the Scottish contingent let themselves down badly at the start as a cacophony of boos drowned out God Save The Queen after respect was afforded Flower Of Scotland.“
A suggested summary of what’s important to the Scottish media
(Contributions welcome)
Football results (Almost exclusively Rangers, Celtic & Scotland) – Important
Number of pies eaten weekly – Important
Number of voters intending to vote YES – Unimportant
Number of patients who waited more than 8 minutes for treatment at a casualty dept last year – Important
Mass independence rallies in Catalonia, Spain – Unimportant
Labour’s policy regarding support of speedy replacement of Trident – Unimportant
Fatal accident inquiries in Thurso – Important
Attempted murder rates in Uist – Important
Amount of capital investment in renewable energy – Unimportant
Quality of life statistics comparing Scotland to other similar sized countries – Unimportant
Norway’s wealth fund – unimportant
Price of Buckfast in Airdrie – Important
Jackie Baillie talking shite (again)- Important
Border posts, cell phone charges, road hauliers tax, access to Eastenders, all post independence – important
British Government tax rates on personal income, fuel oil, car insurance, personal insurance, house purchases, inheritance, alcohol, cigarettes, capital gains, electricity, gas, and license fees for roads, TV etc – unimportant
Rangers football club or whatever its called these days – important
Alex Salmond’s weight – important
Jackies Baillies weight – unimportant
Anything flipper Darling says (even if its completely shite) – important
Corruption in HOC or HOL – Unimportant
Labour’s policy convergence with the Tories – Unimportant
Price of fish & chips at members café in Holyrood – important
Quantity of Tea Cakes given to visitors by Alex Salmond at Bute House – important
etc etc
A suggested summary of what’s important to the Scottish media
(Contributions welcome)
Football results (Almost exclusively Rangers, Celtic & Scotland) – Important
Number of pies eaten weekly – Important
Number of voters intending to vote YES – Unimportant
Number of patients who waited more than 8 minutes for treatment at a casualty dept last year – Important
Mass independence rallies in Catalonia, Spain – Unimportant
Labour’s policy regarding support of speedy replacement of Trident – Unimportant
Fatal accident inquiries in Thurso – Important
Attempted murder rates in Uist – Important
Amount of capital investment in renewable energy – Unimportant
Quality of life statistics comparing Scotland to other similar sized countries – Unimportant
Norway’s wealth fund – unimportant
Price of Buckfast in Airdrie – Important
Jackie Baillie talking shite (again)- Important
Border posts, cell phone charges, road hauliers tax, access to Eastenders, all post independence – important
British Government tax rates on personal income, fuel oil, car insurance, personal insurance, house purchases, inheritance, alcohol, cigarettes, capital gains, electricity, gas, and license fees for roads, TV etc – unimportant
Rangers football club or whatever its called these days – important
Alex Salmond’s weight – important
Jackies Baillie’s weight – unimportant
Anything flipper Darling says (even if its completely shite) – important
Corruption in HOC or HOL – Unimportant
Labour’s policy convergence with the Tories – Unimportant
Price of fish & chips at members café in Holyrood – important
Quantity of Tea Cakes given to visitors by Alex Salmond at Bute House – important
etc etc
Yeah, well, if the English team would get their own anthem, maybe it would be respected too.
Actually both anthems were not respected, SDM telling fibs again
In the Telegraph”Auld acquaintance had not been forgotten. The rivalry scarred the pre-match anthems. England fans booed Flower Of Scotland and then the Tartan Army attempted to drown out God Save The Queen.”
What are the odds on this?
Better Together take photos of the fat people on BBC’s documentary, impose ‘Yes’ stickers or t-shirts on them, and then argue that they want independence to get all the North Sea Oil to fry their chips in!
Far-fetched? Or should I stop giving them ideas…..?
Re The Anthems…Tartan Army sang “Oh We’d rather have a Panda than a Prince”. That will do for me!
The BBC have disclosed that everyone in Scotland is fat. Now, if we can get potential Yes voters on a slimming programme between now and next September, we win the referendum. Fat No voters will baulk at the thought of that long old slog to the polling station..
“I think the journalists concerned should be dropped somewhere where a military dispute is progress and see what that really means.”
Yes, indeed. The way I read it, H&S, was it was spun in such a way that we can join so long as we do what we’re told by London re Trident.
It is also asserts that:“… an independent Scotland would be seen as a new state and required to apply as a new member…”
So,we take on no share of any UK national debt in that case.
Which is it to be; joint successor state with a share of the UK debt, or new state with none of it? When peddling their scare stories they really need to decide which tack they intend to take and stick with it.
Deary me, wont someone think of the poor little PFI providers
link to bbc.co.uk
Scottish newspaper lies to its readers yet again.
Daily Mail:
“It seemed the days of booing national anthems had passed. But old habits die hard against the Auld Enemy so Flower of Scotland got the treatment and God Save the Queen was booed in response. Pretty unsavoury all round.”
Scottish Daily Mail:
“the Scottish contingent let themselves down badly at the start as a cacophony of boos drowned out God Save The Queen after respect was afforded Flower Of Scotland.”
“Scottish newspaper lies to its readers yet again.”
Nice catch, G. We’ll be having that one 🙂
For me a newly independent Scotland being refused NATO membership would be a positive outcome. I really do not see it as a priority issue.
On the subject of total obliteration, I wonder when project fear will use this new picture of Edinburgh Castle? Maybe a Scottish production of “The day efter the morra”?
Re The Anthems…Tartan Army sang “Oh We’d rather have a Panda than a Prince”. That will do for me!
To She’ll be coming round the mountain, would that be right?
“Oh we’d rather have the Daily Mail than the Scottish Daily Mail / If forced at gun point to read either of them”
Apologies. Exceeded my capabilities on pasting. Link to digital disaster images in the Independent. Edinburgh is number 5. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/apocalypse-wow-remarkable-digital-images-depict-britain-besieged-by-natural-disasters-8763587.html?action=gallery&ino=5
Alan Roden must be so proud.
link to pressdisplay.com
From the Dundee Courier 15th August
Vile Nat Separatist in shocking attack on the 4th Dimension!
By A. Reporter
TODAY in Dundee twenty years ago, Arch-Pied Piper CYBERNAT Stuart Campbell launched a ferocious racist attack on 19th century German Mathematician and Astronomer, August Ferdinand Mobius. An investigative team from the Courier can exclusively reveal today that Rev. Campbell dared challenge Mobius postulation (in the extremely racist manner we’ve come to expect from online separatist bile merchants), that a fourth dimension would allow a three-dimensional form to be rotated onto its mirror-image via 4D Sports Driving polygons, Amiga Power (issue 21).
While unfortunately we cannot provide any proof of this horrendous verbal & no doubt physical assault because we don’t know how to take screenshots yet, nor do we understand the basics geometry, but professional SOCIALIST Lord Baron Duke Sir George Foulkes kindly took a moment out of his busy schedule whipping peasants in Cumnock to talk to us. Jedi Master and part time Thundercat Foulkes, described the attack as typical from a fully paid up SNP Stazi member, adding that Wings Over Scotland was an SNP separatist front which must be outlawed to ensure the integrity of the referendum that Scotland is having to become separated & isolated under an eternal fat Eck dictatorship.
In the interest of balance the Courier would like to report that a spokesman from Wings Over Scotland was unavailable for comment, because we didn’t ask.
@Murray McCallum
That’ll be the post independence pic then?
See! The sky will fall in if we vote Yes!
Ach, I’ll take the sky falling in to rule by westminster anyday.
Pmcrek, you owe me a box of hankerchiefs, I just used up my last few wiping away THE TEARS OF UNENDING LAUGHTER
Taranaich,
No seriously it wasn’t me. 100% copy pastad from the Courier. I didn’t want to give them the hits by using a link…
pmcrk said – “Lord Baron Duke Sir George Foulkes kindly took a moment out of his busy schedule whipping peasants in Cumnock to talk to us”
Happy days!
Look, we’re all going to feel much better next year, when the entire Tory cabinet (which Scots did NOT elect), are planning to come up to Scotland to help OUR elected Scottish Government ensure the commonwealth games are a success.
I guess that will be the Commonwealth games, for which Westminster and England have not contributed ONE SINGLE PENNY.
The arrogance of this London Tory scum, continues to astound me. To patronise Scots in such an offensive way, as though we can only organise the commonwealth games if London tells us what to do.
The whole freaking lot of them can F*** right off. English Tory colonial attitude yet again. Patronising Tory gits.
On the upside, the presence of Tory boy Cameron and his Bullingdon chums patronising Scotland will help cement the YES vote.
link to newsnetscotland.com
God, I’m angry. Makes me even more determined to help a YES vote.
Robert Louis
On the upside, the presence of Tory boy Cameron and his Bullingdon chums patronising Scotland will help cement the YES vote.
Maybe that is the whole point?
I am with Scottish Skier on this .
Robert Louis
“entire Tory cabinet … planning to come up to Scotland to help … ensure the commonwealth games are a success”.
To be fair Robert I think they heard Grouse shooting was to be in the games and they wanted to check out the facilities. Westminster MPs are also very good at counting tax payers money and just taking enough to get by cleaning their moat, etc. These guys really know about money.
Many thanks for the replies everyone. That’s why I come here. To be informed. That, and a healthy perspective check.
The trouble with reading the unionist press is it just leaves me feeling so lovebombed, I come over all emotional like!
On NATO; The report is in Telegraph (proUnion to a fault), and don’t be fooled by the same approach in The Guardian, it is written by Stephen Carrell, hard line Unionist who spares no opportunity to spin against the SNP SG.
O/T – Read a few of the comments on the Courier non story – looks like they just might have done the Rev a favour bringing WoS to the attention of more people it is true there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Annie
the problem Annie is that the rebuttals are all online and the print edition does not carry these so the damage has been done.
@Bugger (the Panda) says:.
t 2:06 pm
Alan GerrishCan you expand on that please?
I meant that the reported behaviour of the BT side in this episode sounds consistent with their behaviour in response to any other form of challenge to their assertions re independence, and therefore the story sounded “real” to me.
Sorry there might have been ambiguity in my one-liner, but I must confess to having been a bit exercised at the time by listening to John Beattie report on the NATO / SG meeting . When Beattie asked a BBC “investigator” what was the outcome of the discussions, the reporter correctly replied that we are not party to such information but nevertheless ( in true Beeb fashion of making a negative out of nothing) referred to a couple of newspapers suggesting that we would be unable to join NATO in the event of any territorial disputes existing at the time of application; and this could, for example,relate to a dispute about Trident bases. There is obviously a bit more creative writing to be done on this at the BBC as JB rounded off by saying there would be “much more on this story at four o’clock”, so presumably by then it will sound really impossible for poor silly wee Scotland to join the big boys in NATO.
As has been said so many times before in this debate, just maybe they need us more than we need them…
Al;an Gerish
Sorry I misunderstood your postion.
Smiley thingy
The revolution will not be televised (nor printed it seems)
link to heraldscotland.com
More lies from the Herald this time trying to say Labour rejected the Bedroom Tax when in power.
What this article fails to report of course is Gordon Brown’s government brought in Bedroom Tax Mark1 in 2008.
I am just fed up to my back teeth with the constant lies and misinformation from our press corps.
Morag…yip…More “You cannae shove your granny aff the bus” mind
pmcrek…4D bloody brilliant!
You have to keep chipping away in your daily lives. Educating the people that you meet. I work off shore and meet many who are resident in Scotland but not native. I give them the web sites. Have the talk and tell them to get on the voters list. A good one is to compare Westminster with the Russian Bear. They get that one as many are recently independent from the CCCP.
I have also recently converted some native Scots. They were truly ignorant of what it was all about as were any body in their circle.
My usual tact is to ask how many countrys have gained their independence from Britain. Usualy at this point brows furrow. I then tell them that this is not the question. The question is how many have asked to come back. Then they get it.
One that I am working on has the idea the Nichola brought in the smoking ban thus stopping him smoking in the pub. I am still waiting for a reply to the email I sent giving him the facts.
Make no mistake it will be an up hill struggle and every YES vote must be sought. Of course if the person is realy going to vote no then persuade them to take a holiday next Sep.
@Rod Mac – More lies from the Herald this time trying to say Labour rejected the Bedroom Tax when in power.
Labour also abstained on two Commons votes on the recent Tory/LibDem legislation extending it. Lies indeed.
Why did England have the British national anthem last night at the football. Shurley they should have had the theme from the Archers.
English media didn’t get this YES placards ether. Good on the people that covered the lions with them. The fairy liquid in the fountans was a stotter.
@Vambomarbleye
September holidays good idea but for the postal voting 🙁
I just this second read the article from the Herald quoted by Rev.
I was so angry I posted the following comment:
Close your eyes and imagine we had a fair and balanced media.
Don’t laugh, just imagine.
What would it be saying?
“If on the other hand we did an analysis on the latest PanelBase poll it would show ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ neck ‘n neck and the undecided becoming the deciding factor in the final vote”.
We can only wish we had this type of media in Scotland.
I know this will be moderated and removed, so whoever does remove this post ….up yours, Like most people in Scotland, I’m getting increasingly sick of the Herald and other news outlets.
Go on ban me you cretinous useless bunch of deceivers.
Like some on wings I dared believe that the Herald was at least trying to be more balanced in it’s political output. More fool me!
Fool me once shame on you,
Fool me twice, shame on me. I blame myself. 🙁
Hand clapping. never heard of got lost in the post.
@Training Day (1.09)
Sorry for slowness – have been out.
ian@stevenston4.fsnet.co.uk
One that I am working on has the idea the Nichola brought in the smoking ban thus stopping him smoking in the pub. I am still waiting for a reply to the email I sent giving him the facts.
Hopefully including that it was Labour’s Jack McConnell that brought in the smoking ban, right? 😛
Of course if the person is realy going to vote no then persuade them to take a holiday next Sep.
Oooh, that’s a beezer!
@ian
Cheers mate, will be in touch