A sense of inclusion
Posted on
January 18, 2018 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Previous episodes in the series are here. If you’ve got a story like this to tell, or you know anyone who does, Phantom Power want to hear from you – drop them a line.
I can’t find #19 for some reason, so here it is in case we didn’t post it:
link to youtube.com
Love these films, thank you to all involved in making them and starring in them, it gives me belief that maybe, just maybe we might do this.
BBC Scotland will be covering …
Just look at the sooper Nordic decor in their flat – just another influence we need lots of .
It just takes more people to come out and vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get off their backsides. May and the Tories – unionists are bringing the Scottish economy down. Deliberately.
Well said Nina and Craig. Welcome to Scotland. And YES – I hope to that an independent Scotland will become a beacon for the northeast of England to stand out of the shadow of London too. London is the black hole of the UK which sucks in most of the resources of the UK and, in the process, impoverishing many parts of the UK for its own needs. There HAS to be a better way. I often feel sorry for the people of the north of England who are essentially stuck with London.
I truly hope indy Scotland will show the rest of the UK the way it has to go, that London and the southeast is not the be all and end all of England.
Welcome!
Great film. Yesterday I felt a bit down but today after studying the Scottish age population figures I feel reinvigorated. We all know that the referendum was lost because of older people being afraid or having unbreakable ties with the Union. That is just fact.
Today I learned that there are just as many young people between 1 and 15 years of age,as there are elderly 65 to 80+.
This renews my hope for know young people can be more radical regardless of influences.
Independence will come. Hopefully in my lifetime, but if not then at least I helped put down a foundation stone with my grandaughter. The future is ours.Those who come to reside are also unburdened with the baggage of Scotland divided past and are more likely to see a better future.
Excellent!
Isn’t it great that these lovely folks have moved here, want to be part of modern Scotland, and want Indy?
And yet, it’s also bewildering that we have so many born-here proud-butts who willing sell out this country. Proud-butts should listen to this couple and feel utterly ashamed of themselves.
Bob Mack says:
“Today I learned that there are just as many young people between 1 and 15 years of age, as there are elderly 65 to 80+.”
Let’s just hope they aren’t like my younger relatives who voted No because they were worried about their pensions and currency and who are indoctrinating their children with the same mindset. Brother in 70s, sister in 60s and myself, still just in 50s all voted Yes.
It just needs more people to get out and vote to preserve their rights. Use it or lose it. Their choice. May and the Tories – uninionists are trying to bring the Scottish economy down. Do not let them.
Bloody foreigners coming here and paying taxes
Pensions:
Young folk don’t have to worry about that as long as they pay about half their wages to an American insurance company in the new Great Kingdom of Brexland they’ll be promised all the money they need ..until they ask for it, then mibbees aye mibbees naw, but definitely not covered for Medical insurance for whatever ailment you’re going to die of
Vote Tory, or Labour, no difference and that’s what you’ll get
Vote Scotland!
We need a powerful recruiting drive in England – replace the dying House Scots one for one with enthusiastic Yes-voting incomers and we’ll soon have the numbers.
Hope this video brings home to some of the birthers on here how important the New Scot vote is.
What a fine couple – a great asset to all of us. They have invested their future in our future, so we had better not let them (and ourselves) down.
For a very, very long time, Scotland has bled people and talent, as DMH recently reminded the readers of The National. Now instead we have people coming here for a better life. What a happy change, eh?
Another great episode from Phantom Power. One of the best things (beside WoS, natch! =grin=) to ever happen for indy. We just need to get these seen by more people. We only need to reach and change another 5%…
Unfortunately (by design) immigration is a reserved matter. Let’s hope we can change that soon so that people like Nina and Craig can feel safe.
I think Nicola is taking a bold step in endorsing the contribution EU citizens make to Scotland, in the face of the dreadful racism which seems to have taken over the rest of the MSM and political leadership.
Thanks to Nina and Craig for their contribution, and not least, for their beautifully decorated apartment.
It’s a keeper. 🙂
Banning air b/b in Edinburgh. Do they know how many family apartments at relatively short notice to rent in Edinburgh 12. They are only 12. Pop 1million. Yet that is considered a major problem. Do they not want visitors in Edinburgh. How daft is that? Impossible. They need more.
OAP’s in rest of Scotland are not allowed to use their (bus) travel passes on the Edinburgh Trams. They paid for it. More buses have to run. More congestion and expense. The Trams are running under subscribed. Losing maximum revenues. Edinburgh the wealthiest City in Scotland has subsided transport.
Two stops on the London tube without contactless £5.90. Contactless only one ticket per card. Subsdised transport.
Glad to see more coming over to Yes. I know one or two families in the north east who would be Yessers if they lived in Scotland. Unfortunately not everyone is able to up sticks and move.
Also Ray Winstone in a movie worth watching. Sexy Beast
link to imdb.com
These folk embarrass the cringing ProudScots who drag us down.
@Bob Mack says: 18 January, 2018 at 10:41 am:
“We all know that the referendum was lost because of older people being afraid or having unbreakable ties with the Union. That is just fact.”
Matter of true fact, Bob Mack, is that it isn’t a fact. There is a far more simple explanation that is the fact.
This belief that it is simply because a greater number of unionists are from an older age group is a dangerous and stupid viewpoint. Quite simply the actual members of the Westminster Establishment tend to be from an older demographic range is because they are all that remains of the Labour, Tory and LibDem party membership and their followers.
It doesn’t take a genius intellect to figure out that as the SNP has grow from a tiny handful of what the vast majority of the Scottish electorate, (remember the Scottish electorate were voting Tory, Labour and Liberal back then), and they regarded the SNP members as a lunatic fringe of dangerous terrorists who blew up pillar boxes, stole the Stone of Destiny and were anti-Royalists at a time when the Royals were far more acceptable to Scots than today.
That means the present, around 50%, of Scots voters who now favour Scottish Independence came from that Labour, Tory, LibDem demographic. So if you were to add up the actual Labour/Tory/LibDem party members now running Scottish councils, being members of the Holyrood Parliament, the Westminster Parliament and all their close family – plus the council employed officials whose jobs depends upon the unionist led local, national and EU structures who will see that as the reason the unionists are of an older generation.
A fine example of that as a fact is shown in today’s SMSM news.
Here we see a small group of those mainly older generation Labour/Tory/LibDem people attempting to overrule the SNP/SG while the vast majority of the electorate, football supporters, Police Force and even a majority of Labour/LibDem and Tory voters are against the repeal bill.
Rev Stu has highlighted the figures of those for and against the act more than once here on Wings. It is absolute nonsense to imagine that just because a person is of a certain age they are, simply by being that certain age, automatically going to vote to remain part of the UK.
If we ever hope to free Scotland from the Westminster yoke we really need to get rid of such daft, overly simplistic, ideas.
Go look at a picture of a Scottish Tory Party conference and you will see that those sitting watching the stage are almost exclusively blue rinsed elderly females. The conclusion is not that they are there because they are older ladies but there because they are what remains of the Tory party membership.
The same goes for the other unionist parties- they are older because they are what remains of the actual party membership and not because they became the party membership upon arriving at a certain age.
[…] Wings Over Scotland A sense of inclusion Previous episodes in the series are here. If you’ve got a story like this to tell, […]
Well done Phantom Power films another excellent production.
As was pointed out in the video there are over 80,000 vacancies in the NHS and this couple would have found jobs wherever though chose to move to in the UK.
I’m glad thew chose Scotland and that’s another two more Yes votes in the bag.
Always impressed with the quality of these. Brilliant.
Nice couple.
@Robert Peffers,
Sorry Robert but you are away on a different planet today.
Are you actually trying to tell me that all the empirical evidence about how and why the older generation voted in the referendum is wrong. I presume you will publish your alternative sources rather than your anecdotal evidence.
Day in day out,
We are bombarded by propaganda and bullshit by the Govt(Westmidden) and the media.
These videos give me the belief that the bullshit is being ignored and folk can see for themselves how good a country (Scotland) we have.
Big thank you to all for these videos .
I feel so much better having watched this.
Now if only the rest of us could show our support more.
Independence is close … really close .
🙂
This couple are more than welcome a very good story not like this one is it only a Tory who would do this.
link to on.rt.com
all these clips deserve a wider audience
Perhaps the foyer of the scottish parliament
I cant see any objections after all they are happy and uplifting showing real people’s experiences of and in scotland
Or is happy and uplifting a no go area for unionists , incompatible with their we hate everything and everyone especially foreigners , and of course the S N P .
People should be happy that over 1/3 of older voters vote SNP/SNP. They vote for Independence. Their help, dedication and campaigning helps gets support over the line in historical victories. There is much mention of those who don’t. Instead of those who do. On the increase.
all these clips deserve a wider audience
Perhaps the foyer of the scottish parliament , for visitors to view while waiting , i trust there are screens in our 10 times 2 years late parliament
I cant see any objections after all they are happy and uplifting showing real people’s experiences of and in scotland
Or is happy and uplifting a no go area for unionists , incompatible with their we hate everything and everyone especially foreigners , and of course the S N P .
Richard Duncan says:
… and yet Indy support is creeping up despite levels of omission, bias, and propaganda we didn’t even see in 2014.
I agree videos like this are most uplifting. They instill the will to get on and win our future.
These Phantom Power Productions showing such nice people as this couple make a welcome change to the usual SNP bad dross that we are subjected to on a daily basis.
Heartwarming.
🙂
In the previous comment I missed out the usual word when Labour are involved.
OVER BUDGET & LATE
Now how did i miss that now silly me , after all they go together
Lovely, articulate, well informed couple. Thank you!
Couldn’t help but covet their artwork, too.
This does not change the fact that 80per cent of Incomers voted no in the ref., 1 you keep on pointing out the odd ones who said they voted yes but ignore the the,80per cent who voted no if you want to have a fair chance of gaining our.freedom it must be only the scots who wre born and live in Scotland who should be able to vote on the future of their country no one else these Incomers are not Scottish it’s as simple as that we can welcome in as guests in our country but they should have no say in the future of our country
Don’t miss the boat, Scotland…
link to imgur.com
Can you imagine if we had a National News broadcaster that gave you the facts rather than hiding them, (You know who you are), support for YES would be 60 to 70%, no question.
What a lovely couple. They deserve to be successful and have a great life here.
That film made me very emotional towards the end.
I look forward to welcoming more people like Nina and Craig. With the opportunities an independent Scotland will bring we can bring some of our young people from around the world home too.
Very timely Rev, some people are playing the “anti-X” card afain in their absolutely rock-bottom desperateness. Here’s one I cooked earlier and elsewhere:
“In no particular order, Italian, Saxons, Northern Irish, Chinese, Vikings, Welsh, Dutch, Celts, Irish, Norweigans, Romans, Indians, Cumbrians, Germans, Pakistani, Normans, Americans, Poles, Gaels, French, Picts , and of course English and many others.
Which ONE are you?”
I forgot Africans and dozens, hundreds if you take into account period of history, of others. “Scots” are very gregarious, sociable and welcoming!
Proud Cybernat 1.17 That should be on billboards all over the country
Phantom Powers thank you for these wonderful films – keep up the great work.
Thanks, that was uplifting. Needed that after the depressing perfidy of Westminster and its Scottish shills thinking they’ve sold us down the river this week. It’s not over yet.
@MajorBloodnok
I’m hoping the thoughtless thirteen have terminated the Union with their extreme prejudice.
Don’t see you enough on Wings.
Many newcomers could not vote in IndyRef. Same as GE + 16+. 80% ? of newcomers could not vote. Only 1% of voters (from the rest of of the UK who had a vote) voted NO. Only voters of Scottish descent would not be democratic. Or be able to arrange. It would mean there could not be a Ref held. Impossible to organise? The bureacacy would prohibit it. Either inclusive or not at all basically. No taxation without representation. The basis of democracy. A free and balanced Press etc. There is a 40Million diaspora of Scots decent all over the world. They were made welcome. People from Scotland work all over the world. In the Oil & Gas sector, engineering, medical care, teaching, music industry etc. Scotland was depopulated by Westminster centralist, secret and illegal policies and intransigence,
The MSM/Press is not reporting the waiting times and chaos in NHS in England. They are covering it up. Not reporting the correct figures. The Westminster Press Office has told them to cover it up. The biased MSM.
The Tories are cutting NHS funding £4Billion a year from 2015 to 2020. £20Billion. When they should have increased it for the elderly and inflation. They have put back £2Billion. The Tories are trying to privatise healthcare. To line the pockets of them and their associates. They have given tax breaks, (over £100 a month) More for the wealthiest. They are trying to charge over £100 a month for healthcare.
Bob Mack @ 12:31,
Actually, on that particular point I find RP’s argument quite plausible.
Another way of looking at it is that the Unionist parties have bled supporters, but have done so more from the younger demographic than the older, who tend to be more set in their ways, although not universally so as many posters on here can readily attest, myself included.
Likewise, none of the Unionist parties have been acquiring new supporters at anything like the same rate as the SNP (and Greens, perhaps).
The advent of JC The Messiah has given Labour something of a morale boost because they believe it will stabilise or even recover some losses and also encourage an increase in naive young recruits, especially in England where there is little alternative available within an encrusted FPTP electoral system. But we older hands in Scotland recognise all the danger signs of continuing ambivalence, trimming and hypocrisy (Trident, EU, tax v austerity, etc., etc.), not to mention sheer incompetence, and must keep alerting everyone to the eminently avoidable error of believing any of the NorthBritLab empty rhetoric. As will the empirical facts, if young people in particular care to check things out for themselves, as they did during IR1.
I don’t myself accept that there is any age group that is totally immune to influence. I believe the young have a big role to play in convincing the older generation to bequeath them the future to which they aspire, for example.
In some cases it may not convince older people to switch to indy, but may cause some at least to abstain from voting for a fading Union again. Not ideal, since a lost vote is only worth half of a switched vote, but everything helps.
Pure gutted that I never came up with this one…
link to imgur.com
Yer back then
I thought the empire were striking back with the removal of Wings from the internet
Or was that just a warning !
Righty, this has reared its ugly head elsewhere and it’s time it was stomped. It relates to a previous poster DC I think, the identical thing coming up elsewhere now, different name, maybe different person who knows.
link to nrscotland.gov.uk
The total net inflow from the rUK over 20 years is just 93.1 million net migration from the rUK – some years had negatives. This is way less than figures being claimed.
For year ending mid-2016 it’s “net gain of 8,809” and “46,300 people came to Scotland from the rest of the UK” from the infographics here:
link to nrscotland.gov.uk
Someone’s stirring it, and someone else is being able to refute it every time an apparent “anti-English” apparent “Indy supporting” poster posts it.
They’re avin’ a laff.
Proud cybernat ha ha thanks for the post
Now that is Clever
Worth repeating , would work well as a retro fit poster just stuck on top of Unionist guff
Oh yes and welcome to Nina and Craig, watch it tonight, busy catching up with stuff right now.
No One affected by the short removal of of Wings from the twitternet
The site was unable to be reached for a time just after half three
A Warning ?
ProudCybernat Purloined an shared on Yes pages lol.
Ruth Davidson “It’s the SNP’s secret Scotland and it stinks
For me this is what stinks
The Tory MP for West Worcestershire has come under fire after trying to claw back a £50 gift to St Richard’s Hospice on the taxpayer’s tab.
link to on.rt.com
A power outage apparently.
Blair Paterson @ 13:17,
Let’s look at this another way:
+ There are people like Nina and Craig who are now resident in Scotland who have come from elsewhere in the UK and/or the EU.
+ UK citizens will be eligible to vote in IR2 whether people like you like it or not. Plain fact. EU citizens hopefully also.
+ So what should we do to convince all such people that their interests are best served by voting for indy? Slag them off as “unwanted and untrusted”, as you repeatedly seem to do, or welcome them with open arms as fellow citizens of a new forward-looking inclusive sovereign Scotland, as the rest of us do?
+ Answers on the back of a stamp.
Oh and BTW, have you made your considered submission yet to the current review of the electoral system?
To be found at:
link to consult.gov.scot
(But at a quick guess, probably not.)
A power blackout in Manchester took down WoS host (and everyone else). Stu commented on twitter so not sinister, probably.
Most of the EU people going home, were told to vote no on 2014, because they were told to vote no to stay in the EU.
People in Scotland left, Vote YES next time.
Removal of Wings, I have thought for a time, they would use your own antivirus to block certain sites.
People with the knowledge please look into this.
@Bill Hume
A bit surprising, they’re big and respectable (Positive) and would have UPS and probably jennies. I’m guessing since it was a widespread power cut (practically regional I think) they took a decision to ensure data security and “ration” emergency power in case it was longer term.
Proud Cybernat says:
18 January, 2018 at 3:28 pm
link to imgur.com
LOVE IT !
Must convert to a car sticker, or flag. Itds a winner!
Robert Graham 3.40pm. Yes I noticed that.couldnt get access.
@Robert J. Sutherland
As far as I remember Blair no longer lives in Scotland. I’m sure he said he lived in Camberley, Surrey.
Is that right Blair?
Educated clever couple unlike the home grown bigots who drag Scotland down.
The quality and content of these films always makes me think of what it would be like to have a media that wanted to give a positive image of Scotland to the World.
…instead we will have Union Jackie & Co droning on that we are too poor, too wee and too stupid!
We are indeed the field slaves listening to the house slaves for guidance.
Social exclusion and marginalisation is a process (see the history of Scotland in Britain, also Brexit). Social inclusion isn’t simply morally attractive, it is essential if we are to be able to cope with the challenges of tomorrow. Lack of agency and a sense of control over one’s life, can be extremely damaging to a person’s psychological health. Effective agency is an inaleable human right (see the “Right to Development”). Social inclusion is also a means of managing future demands on vital public services, both locally and globally. This is one of the reasons a “rights-based approach” to human development is vital.
link to apt.rcpsych.org
link to bps.org.uk
link to fra.europa.eu
@Robert Graham says:18 January, 2018 at 12:55 pm:
“all these clips deserve a wider audience
Perhaps the foyer of the scottish parliament.”
I’ve said it often enough, Robert, that this is where we grass roots guys & gals come in. That includes actual SNP card carriers and the wider YES movement. The elected members of the SNP/SG at Holyrood do very much more than their part but their main job is to run Scotland and set the example of how Scotland should be run – for the Scots not for Greater England/UK or would-be British Empire.
The Westminster MPs have more than enough to fight the combined Westminster Establishment and the UK/England Scots buts. It is we, the grass-roots of the indy movement who have the job, (in the almost complete absence of a real SMSM and dead tree press. An SMSM/Dead-Tree-Press that is factually the main weapon of the union against Scotland.
The truth is that if each of us had converted just one yoon each to support the cause we would have been an independent Scotland lang syne.
The slogan ‘A Stronger Scotland’ does nothing for me – and, I suggest, nothing for Scotland either. I’ve seen the ‘stronger’ word in election campaigns elsewhere in the world and it seems to be part of the spin doctor’s user guide.
Time for a change?
manandboy at 4.35
Exactly. Any party operating in Scotland can use it.
Independence for a stronger Scotland is our theme.
The idea that Scotland should give tens of thousands of people from England moving to Scotland an automatic vote on Scotlands independence referendum is suicidal.
I subscribe to inclusivity but not when it’s just political correctness or plain naivety.
Tesco doesn’t throw their doors open to shoplifters. Neither should Scotland.
I am not being partisan when I highlight the dangers of lacking political agency.
link to eprints.lse.ac.uk
@Robert Graham says: 18 January, 2018 at 1:06 pm:
“In the previous comment I missed out the usual word when Labour are involved.
OVER BUDGET & LATE”
I also meant to post a comment about the news item tucked away almost out of sight. It concerns the PFI/PPP deals so beloved of such by such as Scottish Labour. The news reporters are just a wee tad late by informing the electorate that, “Financing projects such as schools and hospitals privately costs taxpayers billions of pounds more than public service alternatives, parliament’s spending watchdog says.
A report suggests a group of schools cost 40% more to build and a hospital 70% more to construct than if they were financed by government borrowing. The National Audit Office report identifies costs and benefits of PFI. Not to mention that lots of the PFI funded schemes are literally falling to bits nor that the PFI contracts often tied the local councils into long term contracts for the private companies to provide cleaning, maintenance and canteen facilities.
The Treasury said, (cough!), it only approved PFI contracts that were value for money. Not, though, a mention of the truth that Labour Party run local authorities throughout Scotland most certainly did not follow that, (claimed), policy.
“A small window of opportunity” was mentioned at one point in the vid.
The No campaign has been going full on non stop since early 2014 when they got their first inkling that they might not get a large majority in the forthcoming referendum. The Yes campaign failed in Sept 2014 and has been basically sitting on it’s arse and twiddling its thumbs since, seemingly thinking that there has to be a specific date set for the next referendum before any campaigning proper can begin. And what kind of campaign would it be? And how come the no campaign doesn’t need to wait for a date to be set?
That’s not how you win referendums. We’re running out of time and seem to be sleepwalking into a situation where next time we’d be lucky to get 51 or 52% or which could very easily go the other way and uniquely in world history Scotland would have signed its own death warrant. And 51 or 52% wouldn’t settle it anyway, technically of course it would be a win but unionists would shout about recounts, vote rigging, anything that could be used to stir up trouble and uncertainty including but not limited to encouraging oo knuckledraggers to go berserk. That’s apart from any vote rigging THEY may well attempt.
(Complications around the EU issue need to be addressed but with the emphasis being on the FACT that only with independence can Scotland at least vote for itself as regards that issue. There is no way that the EU, EFTA or whatever would unnecessarily delay or refuse an application for Scotland’s membership if indeed that’s what the Scottish public wanted.)
However 55% Yes would shut them up nicely, mirroring as it would their “decisive” 2014 result.
In order to get to that 55% the numbers game has to be played. There needs to be an updated 2018 version of the Wee Blue Book and twice as many copies need to be printed and distributed as last time because to reach a significant number of potential supporters you need as many as is possible to print and distribute. Statistically about half of them would go through indy supporting letterboxes and would largely be wasted unless they can be passed on to soft no’s, undecideds, waverers etc. About another 30% would go through tory voting no voting letterboxes and be binned immediately. To reach as many as possible of the remaining 20% (which is obviously where victory or defeat lies) then as many books as possible has to be distributed overall.
This is our second and last chance so whatever costs have to be covered by crowdfunding then that cost will have to be met.
Recently someone on here suggested that the SNP should send to EVERY home in Scotland, in plain envelopes and addressed to “the occupier”, a leaflet outlining exactly what powers the SG does and does not have (because at least half of the dimwits out there haven’t got a clue) and with a foreword or afterword explaining the threat that the existing powers they do have are under. If I had the funds and resources available I could do it myself so why isn’t the SNP doing something like that? I want someone on here, preferably an SNP member, to explain to me why not?
Also people come on here and make suggestions about leafleting campaigns, billboards, advans etc but nothing ever comes of it. Again I want someone on here to explain to me why?
Powerful stuff. There are few things more heartening to hear, than people who have moved to Scotland and want to vote YES.
@Blair Paterson says: 18 January, 2018 at 1:17 pm:
“This does not change the fact that 80per cent of Incomers voted no in the ref.,”
First of all your claimed statistics are lies and secondly your attitudes are racist and against all decent indy values. Get lost.
@CameronB Brodie
This is where Trump is an idiot. The USA is one of the strongest countries in the world in many ways, and yet it owes all most of its strength to the social inclusion of all its immigrants (who incidentally did suppress the indigent natives but that’s another story). If you look at Trump himself he’s a mongrel, like just about all Americans – and just about all of us as well going back tghe generations.
And yet Trump can’t even look at a mirror and see it’s himself he wants to exclude from being an American.
O/T. Anyone remember this guy?
The king is dead, Jason King that is, Peter Wyngarde, who played the character, in Department S.
Wyngarde’s character Jason King, and his sartorial style, is thought to have inspired Mike Myers spoof spy Austin Powers. Wyngarde also said in one episode of Department S, the words “Groovy Baby.”
link to archive.is
1.27pm yesindyref2..
That list of peoples reminded me of an old joke, allthose guys tried to get into a nightclub, but the boucers says, “sorry..you can’t come in without a thai…”
Ahl get ma coat…!!
@referendum 1707…14.52pm
Aye ok then buddy…EU ref was 52-48, and that appears to have settled the issue huh ?
50% plus 1 vote = indy. No IF’s no BUT’s.
As for your utter desperation to have the indyref date named…away ye go son.
We already know when it will be held, between october 2018 and March 29th 2019.
Did you miss the memo, numbnuts ?
yesindyref2 says:
18 January, 2018 at 4:56 pm
@CameronB Brodie
This is where Trump is an idiot. The USA is one of the strongest countries in the world in many ways, and yet it owes all most of its strength to the social inclusion of all its immigrants
US has some spectacular deficit and debt stats though. Its like its been run by Gordon Brown on meth.
link to usdebtclock.org
No idea how accurate the above site is but a US debt of $20 trillion, is extremely mental. Coupled with staggering wealth inequality, matched only really by teamGB freaks like the Windsors, and its not looking rosy for future Americans.
For the balance here’s UK debt clock,
link to nationaldebtclock.co.uk
When office shagger of the millenium Clinton lost to Bush, he at the very least left behind a very small US national debt. Bush blew it all up. Is it a coincidence that closest allies Blair and Brown did the same?
Another great Crash Gordo legacy, as he minces about Kirkcaldy today.
link to nrscotland.gov.uk
Net migration of people from the rUK at mid-year (30th June) in thousands – that’s all ages and not all would have voted but who cares, let’s count them all, women, men and babies just in case they cheated and put down postal votes for the new-born.
2009-10 – 3.3
2010-11 – 2.9
2011-12 – 3.0
2012-13 – 7.9
2013-14 – 9.6
Total: : 26.1 thousand
(2014-15 – 8.4)
Majority NO in 2014 = 400,000, net migration iuncluding babies from the rUK total
So taking all who arrived for 5 months and nearly 3 months before the 2014 Referendum and snatching their votes from them, ballot sheets from the mouths of babies even, and telling people who leave and died they can;t vote which they couldn’t ANYWAY, we get 400,000 – 26,100 = 373,900 majority for NO.
next.
manandboy @ 16:47,
Since you evidently missed it, I refer you to my reply to Blair ex-Pat upthread.
They’re here and they will have a vote, whatever you might think. So quit moaning and get used to it.
The real question, as it is with everyone else, is how best to convert them. Some are already there, as this video clearly shows, and some are persuadeable, because it is in their long-term interest just as much as the rest of us.
So spare us all the unproductive negativity and focus instead on how to win over as many as possible. Every convert is a step nearer a win. (That’s what you want, right…?)
International Development RT — The Alex Salmond Show
link to google.co.uk
Robert J Sutherland 5.23
That’s the question is it not?
How do you persuade them?
And the one-to-one private approach –
or hug-a-noer –
may just be the best way.
Cos the rational approach is not looking too healthy!
link to archive.is
On a happier note the latest circulation figures indicate The Sudan mail down by 16% from last year and The Daily Rogue down by 13% from last year to under 140,000 a day.(including free copies)
Now that is progress.
@David Torrance
What was you motivation in studying psychology at university, self-advancement? How the hell did you qualify in a caring discipline, you wee, narcissistic, Tory, weasel? Are you really comfortable in supporting neo-liberal policy that widens health inequality? Happy that Scots are excluded from the Brexit decision?
link to watermark.silverchair.com
I’ve no idea if I’ve posted this here but yrtis – 2011 census overview:
link to scotlandscensus.gov.uk
What’s happening is that Indy Ref 2 is on the way and yet again the “Indy supporters and SNP and Sturgeon and Mike Russell and Angus Robertson are anti-English” is getting pushed out by unionists, perfectly backed up by pretendy Indy supporters and the gullible. And this could lose us Indy Ref 2.
Well fuck that, I’m fighting it tooth and nail, and I’ve sharpened my choppers and filed my nails to a point and almond oil to give me strength.
Is it just my system or is Wings having problems today?
I’ve had several posts vanish as I was still typing them and a period of time when I could visit any website – except Wings.
Now I’ve just had yet another comment vanish before I had finished typing it.
@mike cassidy
Maybe hug a noer and tell them it’s their absolute right to vote NO to Independence if that’s their (considered) choice. Reverse psychology.
yesindyref2 and Heedtracker
Yes, Trump is daft. His wig-hat tells you that.
Yes, consumer capitalism is fecked. Pity we haven’t found a workable replacement yet.
A right-based approach is the solution to both, IMHO. 😉
Just because folk moved south to north doesn’t mean they all originate from the south, and even if they did nobody can know how they voted even if they voted at all
The FM converts people every single day she’s out there working doing the day job and anyone who might have thought they had a negative opinion of her beforehand changes that opinion after meeting her
That’s another reason we’re at 49% and climbing
This politicking thing isn’t easy when you’re the focal point of everything on your own and the entirety of the British political system and media power is determined to bring you down
One wee lassie from Ayr against everybody? and she’s got them terrified, I think it’s going pretty well
Do any other Wingers agree with me that Nicola Sturgeon is in need of a strong Deputy First Minister.?
Alex Salmond had a strong deputy leader in Nicola Sturgeon, she could handle the press no problem and was excellent at deflecting attention away from him.
In my opinion Nicola does not have anyone who can do that for her. She seems to be carrying the whole SNP Government.
I don’t know who could become her No2 but in the run up to IndyRef2 I think the SNP should be actively looking someone.
Maybe somebody will appear out of nowhere. It would also help freshen up the whole SNP image.
@yesindyref2
Not wanting to start World War 3 or contribute to a long and negative thread, but aren’t the relevant figures those for all incomers rather than for net migration? From the official Mid-2016 population estimates [sorry, cut and paste doesn’t seem to work properly]:
40,400 people came to Scotland from overseas and an inflow of 46,300 in that year from the rest of the UK. So 86,700. Multiply that up for 3 years worth or whatever. So I suggest that the issue is a bit bigger than your figures would indicate.
For avoidance of doubt, I’m not advocating discrimination against any nationality and I’m glad to see incomers supporting the cause. That doesn’t alter the fact that this is liable to play in favour of the Union, partly because some are from other parts of the Union and some newly arrived from further afield may be easily spooked on the basis of previous bad experiences. (I seem to remember some nonsense about Nigerians being deported if Yes won and that may be more believable to people who have only just arrived.)
Did anybody see the SNP party political broadcast after the STV news?
A David Torrance lookalike, got it in the neck, it was one of the best yet from the SNP.
Apologies if already linked to.
SNP political broadcast. Very good. Sets the record straight on a lot of things …
link to mobile.twitter.com
… and a cracking Monty Python rip off 🙂
What I found particularly interesting was the caricature of the Unionist whinner.
galamcennalath
I see Duncan Hothersall is in that party political broadcast. 🙂
@PictAtRandom
It’s the infographic on page 2 (yes it doesn’t cut and paste, it’s a pain you have to type it and check it):
“Net migration overseas 26,000, Net migration rest of UK 8,800”
Net is inflows minus outflows. If they “outflow” then they’re gone or deid and can’t vote! So it’s the 8,800 figure is the one that increases the resident rUK population.
I think we get a lot of “temporary” workers from the rUK who go back after a year or two – I’ve known a fair few, but no idea if that’s the reason or just part of it why the nett inflow from the rUK is so small in percentage terms to that from overseas – apart from the fact that’s a lot further to travel back!
o/t
Always a bit of trepidation when Robert Peffers answers or comments on something posted Ha Ha
However the nice Robert Peffers seems to be in charge today , no kicked arse today .
Anyway your first comment , Convertion agreed and whenever the opportunity presents itself bob opens his gub ( can’t help it ) , I fell out with my older brother just before the 2014 Ref I just couldn’t persuade him , anyway we met up at a funeral recently , and the first comment was oh don’t start on independence again , I said ok no problem , I will just say one thing , he was involved in the whisky industry so it was close to home , I said how come one port in England Felixstowe exports more whisky than a whole country Scotland , Ha Ha well a blank look , then a well I am going to the bar That moment of hesitation I knew , I knew it hit home so you never know , slowly slowly .
Second comment re PFI , two guys down Ayrshire way , apologies for forgetting their names anyway they produced a video of the shenanigans in their council , firstly selling land that didn’t belong to them , it was gifted to the community . Then despite evidence refused to hold an investigation into why only one bid was recorded as the other bids were bogus paper shell companies , Turned out the whole procedure broke EU Procurement rules , even the police couldn’t answer why no criminal investigation was carried out , Times this by the contracts in place right now and it shows the scale of what a public inquiry would have to face.
I believe a study was made involving one School ,and to cut a long story short the conclusion was this School would have cost eleven million pounds to build , with costs over the lifetime of the contract involving PFI , repayments would be in the region of seventy seven million £ 77.000.000 for a £ 11.000.000 pound building I said in the region because mostly these contracts have a built in inflation clause going only one way, you gussed it UP .
The councils involved would have been cheaper going to their local Halifax , at least at the end of the day they would actually own the building ,
PFI the only game in town , courtesy of Lord Jack McConnell , he should be prisoner 1100 in HM Prison Peterhead if there was any justice .
Just wondering:
Did I miss a bit of the Nicola Sturgeon interview with Andrew Marr where she lambasted the BBC for being a UK Govt / UK Union propaganda machine?
You can view the PPB for SNP here.
What have the SNP ever done for us
link to twitter.com
I’ve just watched the BBC and ITV National news and they have both refused to show me the latest A & E figures for NHS Tory England????
They both focused on how bad it is in Wales, while explain that figures are bad all across the UK, and England struggled because of the very high levels of Flu.
Isn’t that strange that when Wales performance is worse than Scotland’s, who only make a crisis out of our results.
No need to mention England’s specific figures, just a note to say that unprecedented Flu levels sees their NHS Stretched??
As per the Revs earlier post, completely breath taking
that UK Media do not think the biggest vote affecting Scotland’s powers I years is not worth mentioning.
STVs pretend political programme at 10.30 tonight is giving the latest North Accounting Unit leader air space to ask him how likely he is to become First Minister.
Much better idea than cover this Tory betrayal.
Id love to ask Nicola why our Government doesn’t demand Demented Donalda attends Holyrood to explain why Propaganda Quay has not extensively covered the Tory Party betrayal of Scotland.
Would someone in the points of view programme care to explain?
Id rather get my news from North Korea than take on board the UK propaganda, fake news, and downright lies.
This has had 2,168 votes since the same time last evening and has never been less than 95% Yes:
‘Would you be supportive of peaceful civil disobedience if WM moves to shut down the Scottish parliament?’
(I don’t do FB – if those of you who do wouldn’t mind sharing it there I’d be most grateful.)
link to twitter.com
Supermarkets don’t welcome shoplifters, a view shared by Norway and Germany as well as in the rest of Europe.
The First Minister said: “There should be no strings attached, no blocking mechanisms applied and no Downing Street diktat,” she said,
“Scotland’s referendum must be made in Scotland.”
(FT March 2017)
In Europe’s biggest and richest countries, Germany and Norway, voting is restricted to citizens over 18 but also to foreign nationals resident for 3 years minimum but restricted to local elections, plus in Germany, EU elections.
It will be very interesting to see what the terms and conditions of IndyRef2 will be.
“ Agree Galamcennalth @ 0635 pm “absolutely brilliant ppb and the “ unionist whiner “ caricature was indeed very interesting if you “ rewind the clock” ??
I don’t do Facebook or Twitter Ian, please put me down as a Yes on your survey thingy. Ta.
Title of thread: “A sense of inclusion”
Makes you think and the eyes water!
@K1 –
Cheers, but I can’t register a vote for anyone else, set-up is one Tweeter one vote. Still, it’s good to know that, if anything, the % for Yes should be even higher.
It got quite heavy last night, some folk making out I was calling for civil unrest, but the wording is clear enough and I meant it – it’s not ‘coded’ in any way. Still, I’m surprised the approval is so high – thought it might be 65, even 70%, but 95? I know a lot of folk think these polls are worthless but that number in response to that question surely means something.
These films just get better and better. What a great couple making great points When she said at the end, “I believe in Scotland” I burst out crying. So touched. Wingers believe in scotland too. How sad that some Scots don’t. But then that’s the challenge.
Ps. Snp broadcast was ace!
Ian B.,
What K1 says.Ta fanks
mike cassidy @ 5:43pm today
We are roughly 2% rational and 98% emotional.
link to rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org
link to minerva.mic.ul.ie
link to customerthink.com
Yesindyref2 @5.51: this seems desperate stuff from them. Surely Mike Russell is English?
Being Scottish is increasingly an attitude of mind, not an accident of birth, as far as I can see.
Think of all those self-loathing Butcher’s Apron waving thugs and racists who’ve never got beyond Ecclefechan, for example.
Colin Alexander isn’t stupid, he simply wants to undermine support for the SNP, the lead party in our drive to independence.
Was trying to get Gary Robinson interview ( G A Ponsonberry ) Twitter feed but Twitters down ,
Ian Brotherhood Shared on F/B & Yes pages .
Scotland population. 5.2milion. Increased 0.2 million, since devolution. 2000. It was going down before then. It has only increased since 2000. Otherwise it would still be going down. People having less children. Or migrating. The population of most European countries is going down. People having less children. 2 or none at all in Western democracies.
The world population is expected to peak and then fall. Migration has increased in Europe because of the US/UK illegal wars displacing people. Then they have the cheek to blame migrants for the warmongers economic woes. After they US/UK bombed the middle east to bits displacing people. Wasting £Trns. They have no shame. They are the lowest of the low. Poland was handed to Russia dominance after 11WW by Churchill and Roosevelt? Yalta settlement, That caused the economic woes in Poland. After the 11WW started to stop Poland being invaded. Killing millions. 26Million Russian died saving the West. 1/2million in Britain and in France.
The £Billions being taken out of Scotland by Westminster. Unauthorised. Total mismanagement by Westminster, illegally and secretly under the Scottish Office, No published accounts. Westminster unionists claimed they couldn’t published separate accounts. Lies. It was only when the SNP came to power? 2007 that any form of accounts were published on the internet. Scottish Gov accounts.
No one in Scotland had a clue what was going on. The Westminster unionists hid it. People knew something was going on but could not prove it, because of all the denial. The claims that Scotland was subsidised. All lies. The McCrone Report proved it. All the Oil revenues going south etc. All the revenues and resources worth the equivalent of £Billions. Paying for illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Westminster illegal debts. Not borrowed or spent in Scotland. It is still going on. A total fraud. They still try and keep it secret. Under the Barnett Formula. That was why it was set up so the Westminster Treasury could take Scottish resources, mismanage and misappropriate them.
mike cassidy @ 17:43,
An interesting link that, Mike. Interesting but deeply scary!
If also somewhat artificial. But then people voted Leave yet the consequences for them (never mind the rest of us) could be very profound and negative indeed. The power of smokescreening and deliberate confusion.
I guess people do tend to prefer personal experience over anything else, and after that the experience of those they are most in contact with.
Maybe though that’s the power in these videos. They aren’t chock-full of professional politicos selling a line – except cleverly as a kind of negative background – but ordinary people telling their own story in their own words.
We really need to get these seen by more non-involveds. Giveaway compilation DVDs maybe posted through letterboxes…?
@Tinto Chiel
Mike Russell is (or was!) English yes, our lead Brexit negotiator, and Angus Robertson was born in London. I think I have seen them included in the “anti-English” comments but not a lot compared with Stgurgeon (grandmother English, husband English!), the SNP and indy-supporters in total.
I’ve also been watching upvotes, and you get some strange things. Both the Herald and the National all people have to do is upvote, refresh, upvote, refresh so it can be just one person. Standard upvotes for a good solid pro-Indy post like Peter A Bell get maybe 30 on a normal day. But you get one with even a hint of anti-English and if can go up to 40. Why? And more to the point, who? Then of course you’d get a unionist pointing out the anti-Englishness of it (even if it wasn’t really there).
In the old days of Indy Ref 1 you could see who upvoted who, which I found very useful as I’ve always been a bit “controversial” at times, specially on Sunday, and though my upvotes would drop I’d get upvoted by reasonable Unionists at times, and those pro-Indy posters who, well, supported me I guess, probably with a sigh and patience!
These days upvotes are anonymous, and that’s fertile territory for agents provocateurs.
They’re about this Ref, and they’re breeding like rabbits,
Caught the SNP ‘Party Political Broadcast’ on iPlayer after ‘Misreporting Scotland’.
Got to type… That’s the first time I have had an emotional reaction to a PPB – I ‘LOL’D’!
‘Twas brilliant! And didn’t Torrance do well…
8=)
Tinto Chiel says:
Exactly.
And …. clearly there are those who were actually born here who neither expect nor deserve to be considered Scottish!
Wealthy farmer was greatly assisted by tactical voting when he toppled Alex Salmon. He made great play to the electorate that he was an independent thinker who would not blindly follow the instructions of the Tory Whips at Westminster. He lied.
link to caltonjock.com
@Ronnie Anderson –
Cheers big yin, ye’re a star.
😉
“Agents provocateurs”: that’s my impression too, yesindyref2. They will be used increasingly on-line and at demos to try to discredit us. Things are getting desperate for the Establishment and they know the next referendum is make or break.
Self-policing on the streets will be even more important when it comes to rallies.
Funny thing is, I’ve never actually heard an anti-English comment from any of our side while canvassing, and that goes back to 2014 and all elections since. This video just backs that up.
Ha ha ha. I thought the SNP PPB was brilliant.
I was going to say a carmudgeony “but…” but I won’t.
Full marks.
Things are going to get worse, as the empire gets more desperate, and then we will be free.
Independence is a hard road, but freedom is worth fighting for.
The yoons will try anything to keep the cash cow Scotland in the empire.
At every opportunity you must try to convert them.
It is not easy, but freedom never was.
Never forget Scotlands death rate of 50,000 per year is on our side.
Freedom must be won, one person at a time.
“…nor deserve to be considered Scottish!”
Nice touch, galamcennalath. My Polish plasterer pal would agree. He and his wife voted for a Scotland our PSBs loathe and fear.
Twisted as corkscrews, these chiels.
In Labour run Wales…
link to itv.com
“3,741 patients spent 12 hours or more in A&E in December – an increase of 599 patients from November”
I can’t find the figures for the whole of December, but in Scotland in the last week of the year there were 272 patients who spent more than 12 hours in A&E.
I wonder if BBC Wales keep the country in the dark about the performance of NHS Scotland because it is a scandal how their patients are being treated.
Richard Leonard recently raised an issue about ambulance call out waiting times.
In Wales, a person had to wait for 5 hours for an ambulance last month
link to walesonline.co.uk
Have to say that was a laugh out loud PPB. Oh, and the doomsayer? Superb. 😀
Neatly done SNP.
O/T Is there any way to view this new SNP PPB besides Twitter or FB? Vids on these sites don’t play for me.
I would have thought Youtube and the SNP’s home website would be the obvious “go-to” places for such but neither seem to have it (yet)…
Robert J. Sutherland says:
18 January, 2018 at 9:58 pm
O/T Is there any way to view this new SNP PPB besides Twitter or FB? Vids on these sites don’t play for me.
There’s a cracker with Colonel Ruth on the EU and Brexit too. If tory creeps did irony, omfing g!
link to thenational.scot
heedtracker @ 22:06,
O/T That one doesn’t work for me either, heedy. Just a still image. =sigh=
But thanks for the assist anyway.
Anyone want to be part of a “lively audience” for Question Time on Burns Night in Dumfries? (Deepest double Mundell territory.)
Don’t all rush at once.
“Confirmed panellists include Michael Forsyth, Conservative peer and former MP, and Kezia Dugdale, Labour MSP and former leader of Scottish Labour Party.
“David Dimbleby said: “I am very much looking forward to bringing Question Time to Dumfries. What really matters is that we have a lively audience who want to speak their mind. It’s a chance for Dumfries to get its voice heard not just by politicians but right across the UK.”
” Members of the public can apply to be part of the studio audience by completing an application form on the BBC website link to bbc.co.uk or by calling 0330 123 9988.
Creepy application form wants to retain personal details for four years and demands to know one’s gender, but is so behind the times that it only offers two options. Dear me.
For shame. Leonard used a 92 year old lady at FMQs to prop up an attack on Nicola about Bield. He said the lady had dementia, and family are contradicting.
Have to say thats what happens if you agree to be cannon fodder.
link to twitter.com
Watching FMQs today & Richard Leonards performance he spoke of a Mrs Sutherland 94 in a care home suffering Dementia , the care home is due to close & its causing the woman great distress ( she asks her daughter every day where she’s going to the next care home ) .
I don’t think Leonard has a clue about dementia , more a case of rattling his gums SNP Baad .
Twisted as corkscrews, these chiels.
They are twisted. This morning BBC r4 vote tory Today show had their man in Washington explain the latest Orange Hitler nonsense and his fake news awards stuff,
link to bbc.co.uk
22 minutes past 8, very old hand beeb gimp whines long and hard, about how truly awful it really is in America journalism today.
American media today in the “Trump era” thinks that its the main opposition to Trump and that’s bad.
Yes its popular and good for sales, but American media’s an anti Trump “liberal echo chamber,” and this is very very bad, mainstream US media sees itself as the opposition to the democratically elected American President, an “awful lot” of Americans do not trust journalists, now, and this also, is very very bad.
If only Orange Hitler had a BBC to help protect the US electorate, from the evil and cruel liberal main stream media.
Scottish Beeb r4 gimp network listeners, me only probably, also got a huge thing about snow in Dumfries and Galloway, much like the new and awful The GrAUn does, from its Scotland region ed Seve the vile sep slayer, does everyday, for his massive The gRaUN Scotland editor salary
“Netherlands
Deadly gales halt trains and flights across north-west Europe
Storm lashes Belgium, Germany, Netherlands and parts of UK, uprooting power lines and trees, and killing at least seven people”
Twisted, or just UKOK barking tory mad?
Don’t caw ma ah Fat B&(^£$@D am PC sensitive . Well done Fiona McQueen Chief Nursing Officer, tell it like it is an F%^K the Political Correctness .
colin alexander,
“Did I miss a bit of the Nicola Sturgeon interview with Andrew Marr where she lambasted the BBC for being a UK Govt / UK Union propaganda machine?”
CameronB Brodie,
“Colin Alexander isn’t stupid, he simply wants to undermine support for the SNP, the lead party in our drive to independence.”
The lead party in any independence movement has to be a radical one, not one which plays according to Westminster rules.
Not a violent one by any means, but one which is capable of leading a mass Ghandi style independence campaign.
Look at the bravery of the Catalonian “separatists”.
The BBC should have been openly challenged a long time ago.
Rock (20th September 2014 – “Keep ‘em peeled”):
“A very public and massive boycott of the BBC should now be the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. They destroyed our hope for a fair society, we must destroy them in Scotland starting NOW.”
Leonard better watch or I’ll rip him a new one. I deal with dementia every day, in-between posts. I have a view, based on what is desirable and what is achievable. How does he plan on protecting public health, while supporting Brexit?
Rock
I’m not challenging your point but how far do you think the SNP message would get if it was, “the messenger can’t be trusted”? Do you not think achieving sovereign statehood radical enough, for a start?
@galamcennalath says: 18 January, 2018 at 9:07 pm:
“Being Scottish is increasingly an attitude of mind, not an accident of birth, as far as I can see.
Exactly.
And …. clearly there are those who were actually born here who neither expect nor deserve to be considered Scottish!
Genetically the entire United Kingdom is all pretty much the same and that has in fact always been the case. The difference is that in England, from Roman times their culture has been one of a usually foreign elite ruling class and the native Britons being slaves, serfs, villeins with a few of the skilled common people being freemen. The Romans left and there has been an unbroken history of one or other Germanic tribes as an elite ruling class, (the aristocracy and the royals).
Note that the UK parliament that has converted itself from a bipartite union of kingdoms into a system where Westminster is the de facto parliament of the country of England devolving a few useless English assumed powers of sovereignty to the three other countries.
However, in North Britain that became Scotland there has never been a foreign elite ruling class until the English got a foothold by nefarious means. That is why our Scottish Culture is different. We have quite a different cultural outlook on life. Even our sense of humour is different.
We may not be without any real class system and what we have is imported from the other British countries.2018 + around 54 years of written history is long enough to make us very different culturally from our nearest on-land neighbours.
Never forget the comparative distances between the Shetlands and London and from the Shetlands and Scandinavia.
Why are the Anglo Saxons happy to take the bayeux tapestry,it shows them getting done over/subjugated by the French,
Marcon taking the pish and the Anglo Saxons don`t see it.
@Rock
Which party in Scotland should be the “lead party” if not the SNP?
Look at the bravery of the Catalonian “separatists”.
The BBC should have been openly challenged a long time ago.
Rock (20th September 2014 – “Keep ‘em peeled”):
Just one of the great things about internet politics Rock, agent provocateur thugs like you are completely powerless. You can be as butch roughee toughee as you like Rock but online 21st century, you’re just a laugh not scary:D
Must suck so hard to be you eh Rock.
CameronB Brodie says:
18 January, 2018 at 11:27 pm
“Rock
I’m not challenging your point but how far do you think the SNP message would get if it was, “the messenger can’t be trusted”?”
Half a million voters deserted the SNP at the last election, resulting in a fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%, and a loss of 23 MPs.
That would not have happened if they still trusted the messenger.
I am sure those half a million voters would agree with me that Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity of Scotland actually becoming independent by wasting time flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.
Independence will NEVER be won as long as the BBC exists in Scotland.
The SNP should have openly challenged and boycotted the BBC starting immediately after the stolen referendum of 2014.
Of course the SNP is the lead party in the independence movement.
But it has escaped the attention of the “sovereign” clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here that the British Establishment has succeeded in making the SNP lose half a million voters and will make damn sure that the unionists win the next Scottish election by whatever means possible.
Ironically the HMS Sutherland has just conducted a “sovereignty” patrol off the Rock.
Rock, here’s a paraphrase of any one of YOUR predictable comments-
…’SNP should’ve done this..Sturgeon should’ve done that..people here are stupid..everyone else’s comments and opinions are confusing everyone else..’
Do you have anything constructive?
Russian tv take, on why English non tories might be emigrating to nation state Scotland.
link to rt.com
Here’s another one about “500,000 dodgy NO registrations in second homes and BTR addresses” (whatever they are).
“The latest figures, for September 2016, show that there were 26,140 second homes, 44,296 unoccupied exemptions and 35,725 long term empty properties.”
link to gov.scot
“26,140 second homes” for somewhere approaching 500,000 voters – plus kids?
Up to 40 over-16s per house?
There’s a lot of shit going around. Must be a fanny somewhere.
James O’Brien?Verified account
@mrjamesob
Follow Follow @mrjamesob
First anniversary of this today. In many professions, such rank incompetence would be penalised, possibly even career-ending.
The man who wrote this is now the Downing Street Press Secretary.
You’re unlikely to encounter anything more emblematic of the national pageant today.
with pic of that mad Heil Strong Stable Teresa front page.
Head of BBC r4 Today show is ex Evening Standard editor now. London Evening Standard’s merely local fascism for local fascists, maybe with less of the Daily Heil’s regular ogling little girls in their underpants.
Ah the great UKOK fascists.
Run non tory England, run:D
Like, Rock, how can we change to our supplier of news and broadcasting when it’s entwined with our national consciousness, while THE SAME CONTROLLING INTERESTS DISINCENTIVISE LICENSING REFORM AND COMMERCIAL TV..? How?
Beat them at their own game, beat them with their own stick. Play politics right out in the open.
Our secret weapon? The truth.
Nicola Sturgeon is shrewd with expectation, yet unflinching in measure.
There’s a lot of shit going around. Must be a fanny somewhere.
There is a lot of ongoing work getting the Scots electoral register straight. If you cant show them you have a right to vote at an address in Scotland, you have two weeks to show why not and if not, you’re off the register, today.
Prior to 2014, does it matter now?
heedtracker @ 00:48,
O/T (But important) If you haven’t done so already, I would encourage everyone to make their (level-headed) representations concerning correct voter registration to the current consultation on electoral reform, which is reviewing the powers over elections that have lately come to the SG. It could actually make a difference.
You can find it at:
link to consult.gov.scot
yesindyref2 @ 00:20,
A fine name for a warship, if I may say so. Baggsy it for us when we get independence! =grin=
Rock says:
19 January, 2018 at 12:09 am
“Of course the SNP is the lead party in the independence movement.”
Precisely, and that’s why you and others constantly doing down the SNP take well deserved pelters from other posters on Wings.
We need to increase the support for the SNP and you should be supporting them as being the vehicle towards an Independent Scotland, it’s fair to be critical but not hypocritical.
@Heed “Prior to 2014, does it matter now?”
Almost exactly my point. I think the rules are that second home owners can vote in council elections which makes some reasonable sense as they are directly affected by the council. But they’re not allowed – I think – to vote in parliamentary elections or referendums.
But at 26,140 second homes that would be at most 100,000 votes, and yet there is someone I think is an agent provocateur or a patsy now saying elsewhere that that’s giving 500,000 dodgy NO votes. Why? To discredit Indy supporters I would guess.
Be alert. Scotland needs lerts 🙂
@RJS
Frig it. I’m sorry, that should be frigate, a Type 23, full anti-sub and the newest built in the fleet, and possibly the most recently refit (2015), then the most advanced in the fleet – just like you I guess. Yes, I think we’ll just pirate her on the way out, they won’t notice.
“Royal Navy ships had always been launched with a bottle of champagne, but Lady Walmsley broke with tradition and used a bottle of Macallan Scotch whisky.”
LOL. Sounds reasonable to me, but what a waste!
link to en.wikipedia.org
Some might think I’m an idealist but I’m a realist, frankly.
link to psychologytoday.com
link to positivepsychology.org.uk
link to unc.edu
The Jusice secretary must intervene
How dare the Justice secretary intervene
Todays Daily Mail: The Justice secretary is anti English
Remember when they got together and tried all the same stuff on Kenny McCaskill when he was Justice secretary, how times never change for Ruth Davidsons Scottish BBC media party
She’ll have the Orange Lodge out delivering leaflets in Aberdeen again
In your early morning comedy category of news Lord George Ffoukes says he’ll stand up for Scotland in the Lords
You can’t keep a good buffoon down, and you’re not allowed to kill them
Do we think we can ask the Lords for George not to be on our side please
Second homes owners are not allowed to vote in any elections if their principal residence is elsewhere. People in the UK are not allowed to have two votes in any elections. That is gerrymandering. Illegal Jail. The only vote they are supposed to have is at their principal residence. Any council giving them a vote is acting illegally and should be reported.
Those allowed to vote in council elections i.e. other EU citizens are noted on the back of the Council tax form. The Council tax demand. It states all the countries EU citizens residents that can vote in council elections, They can vote in EU elections. They are not allowed to vote in GE unless they take citizenship.
The unionists sabotaged the electoral system in Scotland to give them unfair advantage. The STV D’Hondt system. So they could muck up the economy. It is just a joke. In an electoral system many people do not understand. This can lead to apathy. ‘Their vote doesn’t count.’ Because it doesn’t. They cancel out their own vote. FPTP the unionists would be wiped out. That is why they illegally changed it. Without a mandate or permission from the electorate, Secretly and illegally. Their usual appalling behaviour.
26,000 from elsewhere included children under 16/18 and those who do not vote. 50-80%. Lowers the figure considerable, To be almost negible. 1-2% (50% vote SNP.? 25%mvote for Independence)
In any case it is not about ‘nationalism’. It is about justice, equality and fairness. It is about right and wrong. It is about Scotland being screwed for far too long by liars and crooks at Westminster. Damaging the Scottish economy and illegally depopulating Scotland. With policies which illegally damage the Scottish economy, Emulating from Westminster. Either use it or lose it. Too many people in Scotland are not voting. SNP/SNP. Yet say they support Independence They will never get Independence unless they do, It’s as simple as that. Apathy. Can’t or won’t be bothered voting.
The last election apathy let the Tory – unionists gain. Too many people stayed at home, in the NE etc. 6,000 less votes.
Orange Lodge are not popular in the NE. All public marches are banned, None existent. There is less sectarianism in the NE. No separate schools, Small proportion. % Religion plays less prominence in general. In decline.
Many are absolutely astonished at the Masonic marches in Glasgow /Central,belt. How do they get away with it? Every other week. They should have been banned long ago. A small minority of bigots and racists taking over the streets, it is an outrage. Public money is being used to support that carry on. Illegal. The football carry on is bad enough. Racist and bigots, it should gave been stopped long ago. Bankrupt sporting clubs. No wonder the terraces are empty. Perverts and criminals running the clubs. What a state. All support declining in any case. The 3rd rate rejects.
The population has only increased 0.2million in 17 years. After Devolution. 9% of the population is from elsewhere in the UK, including children under 16/18. The vote % of those who voted – NO is 1-2% of voters. Minimal Negligible by comparison of all voters. Rest 52%? of those who voted. Even if those from elsewhere had not voted NO. YES would still not have won. Proportion is increasing. Especially after the latest Westminster carry on? Just needs more people to turn out to vote? SNP. Vote for Independence.
The Lords is a useless waste of time and money. It should have been abolished long ago. It can only delay twice. The Tories have stacked it full with even more unelected Tories. It is just a joke, Totally non democratic. Just like Westminster.
Links! Please share on FB/Twitter and by word of mouth.
link to indyref2.scot
link to tommysheppardmp.scot
Pete Wishart MP grills RBS bosses on branch closures
link to youtube.com
New Scottish contract gets green light as 72% of GPs back its rollout;
link to pulsetoday.co.uk
LINKS!
Why UK’s oil and gas revenues are dwarfed by Norway’s;
link to businessforscotland.com
The Empty Vessels;
link to autonomyscotland.org
It’s happening!;
link to indyref2.scot
President of Uruguay, First Minister of Scotland, and Leaders in Economics, Health and Development Join to Advocate for Lifesaving Policies that Address Noncommunicable Diseases Linked to Tobacco Use, Obesity and Alcohol Consumption;
link to bloomberg.org
LINKS!
Brexit: Where Are We Now ‘Sufficient Progress’ Has Been Reached?;
link to scer.scot
Civil society under threat, EU fundamental rights experts warn;
link to scottishlegal.com
Please support @TrulyScottishtv. They need viewing figures of around 2500 a day for 3 months to get backing from potential sponsors;
http://www.trulyscottishtv.com/channel-1—welcome-to-scotland.html?vvid=d2478cb76650e9f2d2051ce0e6237aba
Brexit ‘transition’ agreement talks will not be for faint-hearted;
link to irishtimes.com
LINKS!
“Why are the Government singling out the charter of fundamental rights to be the only piece of EU legislation that they wish to repeal?”;
link to thelondoneconomic.com
If Theresa May enjoyed meeting the French president, she didn’t show it;
link to archive.is
‘Last opportunity’ to save powersharing as new round of talks to begin next week;
link to archive.is
Tories planning to hand private firms ’10-15 year NHS contracts’ to stop Labour from renationalising;
link to evolvepolitics.com
That’s all, for now, folks, I’ll post anything that may come in later.
Have a funky Friday, Wingers: Peace to All.
🙂
yesindyref2, there is only one electoral register though. If you’re not on it, you cant vote in any elections.
Electoral register people are now cross checking to see if you appear anywhere else for any reason.
So for example, if you’re a council tax payer in Brighton, but not on the Brighton electoral register, a check is now made where and if you are.
If you’re found to be electoral registered in Scotland, you are given the opportunity to explain why you’re not registered in Brighton but pay council tax there and if you do not have a reason, you are removed from the Scottish register. You are automatically given the right to apply for vote on the Brighton register and you 2 weeks to appeal to the Scots one.
If you are second home owner in Scotland when the big day comes, you will have to re register in Scotland de register in say Brighton.
Before 2014, it is likely that people were registered to vote in Scotland and England, adult families for example from households with one council tax payer, then we move into the EU registers.
No backsies now though.
@Ken500
There are no Orange Lodge marches taking place every other week in Glasgow why would you tell people that?
This scattergun making up of facts out of your own head serves nobody, opinions are fine but making stuff up is not
Most decent folk don’t care for the OO that’s true but don’t try to tell anybody the North East of Scotland doesn’t have them when they are Ruth Davidsons strongest supporters and the Highland games is positively heaving with the loyalty to the Queen shortbread dancing buggers
Keep Yer “facts” facts
Nina and Craig, welcome welcome = )
Thank you for choosing to make Scotland your home !
And thank you for believing in Scotland =)
Repeated warnings that the Private Finance Initiative was an outrageous rip-off, dumping ultimate risks on the taxpayer, were ignored;
The Sting: George Monbiot;
link to monbiot.com
A point…why are some people so negative regarding the terms nationalist and nationalism. Small country nationalism is generally not racist, supremecist, aggressive or intolerant. Nationalism has been the driver of decolonisation and popular liberation movements on every continent. We ought to be proud of what we are as Scottish nationalists and not be disquieted by rubbish spouted by imperialists and their media about nasty nats. We are not neo-nazis or crypto-fascists, we leave those tendencies to the likes of the neo-colonialist agents of the British state.
What we ought to be, and that constantly, is a sharp and maddeningly painful thorn in the side of the system. Too often we are little better than an occasional pin prick.
The vasectomy guy, again.
Tory vice-chair encouraged police brutality during the riots that were caused by police brutality;
link to thecanary.co
@Scot Finlayson says: 18 January, 2018 at 11:38 pm:
“Why are the Anglo Saxons happy to take the bayeux tapestry,it shows them getting done over/subjugated by the French,
Marcon taking the pish and the Anglo Saxons don`t see it.”
The tapestry was actually made in England, Scot. Perhaps the English want to put a Butcher’s Apron on it and a made in England label like they are doing with Scottish made products.
Latest LINKS!
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
link to scottish-enterprise.com
RBS treatment of small firms ‘could be largest theft ever’;
link to archive.is
link to politico.eu
Dr Jim, it is impossible to ‘make up’ facts, isn’t it? People make up lies, not facts.
A fact is a fact, Ken500 merely collects them.
@Ken500 says:
19 January, 2018 at 7:12 am
=================================
Unfortunately the reason for the empty terraces isn’t sectarianism – at least not the way I assume you mean it, that a lot of folk are sickened by it and avoid football. What sectarianism did was create two ultra big clubs (in Scottish terms) who draw support from all over the country, not just the city they’re based in. This sucks support from all the small clubs. Indeed nowadays with the Old Firm live on telly every week, you don’t even get them turning up at their local team as a few of them (those who were also real football fans as opposed to pure bigots) used to when they couldn’t get to Ibrox/Parkhead.
I put Celtic with Rangers their which is a little bit unfair these days but historically they were happy to gain financially from the hatred. Rangers though are the core and I agree 100% with Ian Archer’s famous comment about how Scotland would be a better place.
@louis.b.argyll
My sarcastic tone failed to translate in my usual attempt at humour
Ottomanboi says:
I never use the terms to describe my own position nor the Indy movement I support.
You are correct in what you say, but that is part of the issue – the words need caveats. It’s difficult to use the terms because they come with so much historical baggage. Use requires a “not one of those nationalists, but one of the nice civic variety”.
Because there are undoubtedly nice and also nasty nationalists, the words lack precise meaning by themselves.
Historical example 1 – the rebel fascists in the Spanish Civil War were call the Nationalists. Pure nasty types.
Historical example 2 – promoter of peaceful resistance in India, Ghandi, was a Nationalist. However it’s also worth pointing out that despite Ghandi, Indian and Pakistani nationalism meant independence didn’t go smoothly.
Also, in the UK, the nasty nationalists never refer to themselves a nationalists nor does the media. We all know Brexit feeds of and is driven by English Nationalism, but rarely is that said. Why are they called Brexiteers, why not simply Nationalists? I would suggest the negative historical connotations have tarnished the word and since they want Brexit seen in a good light they never get called nationalists.
Conversely, the establishment want those seeking self determination for Scotland or reunification for Ireland to be labelled nationalists because there can be negative connotations.
I describe myself as a pro democracy activist. Which is accurate. I want to live in a democracy and to see all the justice and benefits that will bring. It will never happen at a UK level, but I firmly believe it is achievable for Scotland.
Turns out Richard Leonards constituent who was suffering from dementia when Mr Leonard raised this at FMQs in fact *isn’t*
Labour have now clarified Richard Leonards statement was incorrect
One wonders if *Clarified* is the correct word
Dr Jim says:
19 January, 2018 at 8:11 am
@Ken500
There are no Orange Lodge marches taking place every other week in Glasgow why would you tell people that?
This scattergun making up of facts out of your own head serves nobody, opinions are fine but making stuff up is not
Most decent folk don’t care for the OO that’s true but don’t try to tell anybody the North East of Scotland doesn’t have them when they are Ruth Davidsons strongest supporters and the Highland games is positively heaving with the loyalty to the Queen shortbread dancing buggers
Keep Yer “facts” facts,
Dr Jim,
Orangeism is not something with roots in the NE. There may be pockets of sympathy for that in places like Peterhead and Portlethen where oil has brought people from West Central Scotland — but otherwise you’re left with individual oddballs like Mr Buchan of the SFF.
I suppose that the Unionist element in the NE could be characterised as polite and respectable Royal Deeside and’wordly-wise’ (a.k.a. money-grabbing). There’s also a military element in Moray. And when harbours change to marinas then that implies a change in the nature of the population. And I can’t help but feel that the handover of chunks of the area to ‘car culture’ has boosted the right-wing Unionist vote. (It’s a bit of a disgrace that the area had more miles of rail track when the Forties Field opened than it has now.)
@galamcennalath
Well said! I don’t vote for independence because I’m a nationalist, my ancestry is not Scottish, but because I’m a democrat. I believe the country should always be governed by the party that Scotland votes for. In my lifetime that is below 50%, combined with a second chamber of totally unelected ermine chasers.
The Orange Lodge and Ruth Davidson do not have major support in the NE and never had. Very few. Deeside is not the NE in general. There have always been Tories but they have usually been defeated. The SNP had a representative or two, one of the few, in Scotland for over 40 years. The majority in the NE voted (Labour)!city or LibDem to keep the Tories out. Often there were no SNP candidates or Labour standing in some constituencies. At the last GE. A few Tories got in because of apathy. People did not vote. It was raining. The N/E lost good representation. People will take notice.
The SNP often get the most no of councillors but the unionists unite to keep them out. Then ruin the City getting it into £1.2Billion of debt. Etc. STV confuses people. Increases apathy. There is still a strong SNP/Independence support in the NE. A relative conveyed the number of Orange Marches in Glasgow. Maybe they got it wrong. There seems to be quite a few. Along with other ‘sporting’ sector behaviours.
There is still. a strong SNP support and for Independence. In the last GE People who support Independence did not come out to support SNP. They did not vote. 6,000. Apathy won. They will when the time comes. There are quite a few incomers on the East coast compared to the West. Oil & Gas finance etc and that does have an affect, There are no OO marches every week. They are banned completely. Any attempt is just refused. The schools are mainly mixed, Religion does not play such a prominent part People support/supported the SNP mainly for they saw the meters turning. Many knew what was going on in the economy. Voters remorse. Time will tell. There could be a backlash. The result was surprising. Independence /EU propaganda played a part, as intended by lying unionists.
I’m breaking my own advice here as I’m seeing far too many Wingers engaging with Rock so I did read some of his crap- I should not have bothered.
Let’s ignore Rock as his input has become so desperate and stupid.
He makes idiotic and obviously distorted claims. He then compounds his stupidity by drawing even more dafter conclusions from his own distorted initial views.
He claims millions of the Scottish electorate deserted the SNP. Yet the obvious truth is those millions were really never SNP supporters in the first place.
They voted SNP in protest against the unionist parties they normally supported in the so called landslide election that sent all but one Scottish constituency MP to Westminster. That was the anomaly that anyone with a bit of sense knew was not going to be the norm.
So all that happened is that most of the protest voters returned to their former loyalties. Thing is that the SNP retained some of them after things returned to normal. That was a step forward.
While idiots like Rock attempted to consider the anomaly as the norm the rest of us knew getting all but one Westminster MP as SNP was the anomaly and would not be sustained.
Like the SMSM, who attempted to portray the following election as a defeat for the SNP when the truth is that the SNP still had a majority over every individual unionist party.
Rock just holds the views as given him by the SMSM that the SNP were not a majority government. This, of course, was based upon the fact that the three Westminster parties were, (pun intended), in union against the SNP in Scotland but remain the opposition to each other at Westminster.
Ignore the silly bugger as he cannot see reality through the haze of SNP BAAAAD that distorts his view. He is not alone in that.
Tory, Labour and LibDem voters who sent a message to the parties they normally vote for simply returned to their first loyalties.
The fact that Rock couldn’t see that shows he has no perception of reality of political situations. Rock sees politics through a prism of his own making that distorts reality.
@Robert Peffers
There is much dissent among scholars as to the origins of the embroidery, it is not technically a tapestry. The English ie Anglosaxons were skilled in the art of embroidery, which may swing it for some to be English in origin. To others, analysis of subject detail suggests a French source, somewhere in the Loire valley where there was also some skill in the art. However, the Norman propaganda it conveys of England’s subjugation is quite stark. Why a conquered country would desire to display a work lauding its conquerors is bizarre.
But then they go ape over the Domesday Book, simply a detailed inventory of the conqueror’s loot.
A few thousand spectators at Braemar Gathering mainly made up of tourists. Foreigners not locals. Most people ignore it. Is not representative of the NE. Deeside is sparsely populated by comparison. There is just a song and dance about it. A bit of tradition. The majority live elsewhere in the City or Shire. There are many farmers/fishermen who support the SNP/Independence. Their voice is never heard in the unionist MSM/Press. Just like a lot of information.
Robert P,
Bayeux Tapestry was made at an English monastery AFTER a Norman abbot had been put in charge!
For fair minded readers of this site, I think they will agree that I made a valid point re no criticism of the BBC by Nicola Sturgeon on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show.
Stu, just the other day, focused on the lack of reporting by the BBC about a major story about the Scottish Tory MP’s voting to send the devolution power grab to the Lords. (The Great Whiteout).
However, even though that happened after the FM’s interview, it’s a regular theme in articles and btl comments and has been since indyref1 about BBC bias. It’s not just Rock saying it about the BBC. It has been confirmed by academic study that the BBC was not impartial ( which is a clear breach of the Edinburgh Agreement and democratic principles).
When the leader of the SNP appears on the BBC, not one word mentioned about any BBC misreporting or bias, just a lot of old hat waffle about how she hasn’t yet decided to have an indyref or not.
That was the chance begin exposing the BBC for their corruption. The FM didn’t take it.
Another wasted opportunity.
So, it appears, if we are waiting for the SNP to take action, nothing will be done to limit the corrupt power of the BBC to again influence the result of another indyref in favour of the UK Union.
Dr Jim, I know what you mean, tone is tricky in black and white.
Btw, bought a new KETTLE yesterday, was under pressure and desperate for COFFEE. Bought one, in a box with a ‘BRITISH BY DESIGN’ badge on five sides. On the bottom, MADE IN CHINA.
Hi, CoCo the Precious, if Nicola is no damn good, who exactly do you recommend then?
We’re still waiting for an answer to that burning question…
@galamcenalath
I agree there is an issue with the usage of the terms but it is not of our making. Nationalists and nationalism liberated the Baltic states from Soviet rule and the Balkans from the Ottomans. It was Irish nationalism that drove the desire for independence in the 18/19th century ie the idea that Ireland should be a sovereign nation state. It was a nationalist outlook that united Gandhi, Nehru and Jinnah regarding the ‘Indic’ sub- continent. The divisions in their ranks were if anything exacerbated by the British who believed they could manipulate Jinnah to their advantage and scupper the whole project by causing ethnic friction. Which they did of course with lasting negative consequences and ghosts of the raj mentality still haunt both India and Pakistan.
In a broad spectrum nationalism which encompasses culture in its widest and most positive sense, I am happy to style myself nationalist and cosmopolitan.
Excepting constipated Unionists, the expression ‘Scottish nationalism’ should give no one nightmares.
@Colin,
No Colin, your point was not valid by any means. You wanted her to be bullish, accusing and overbearing. That did not happen. I think your strategy is to encourage Nicola to put forward an aura of intolerance, anger and resentment. Everything she is not in fact.
You may like that in politicians like Farage, but personally I don’t. She was concise, determined ,and at the very least accurate and inclusive.
@Ken500 / @Heed
I saw this the other day and was a bit surprised myself:
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
“If I’m registered twice, can I vote twice?
If you are registered to vote in two different electoral areas, you can vote in local elections for the two different local councils.
However, it is an offence to vote twice in the same type of election, such as in a UK general election. Doing this could result in a fine of up to £5,000.“
Regarding BBC bias coming under regular focus on WoS, just put BBC in the WoS search box and you will see what I mean.
Yet, as I said, not a word about BBC bias from the FM.
Oh dear.
@galamcennalath
RE: National/Nationalist
Heh, good ol’ word association. The word means what it means.
National:
adjective
1. relating to or characteristic of a nation; common to a whole nation. “this policy may have been in the national interest” synonyms: state, public, federal, governmental; More –
noun
1. a citizen of a particular country.
“a German national” synonyms: citizen, subject, native, resident, inhabitant; voter “a French national”
2. a national newspaper as opposed to a local one.
“the inability of the local press to compete with the nationals for news”
But basically, representative of the population or geography.
The word is harmless and in its truest sense so are the vast majority of institutions to which it can be applied. The problem comes when political ideologies appropriate the word to describe themselves. Has to be said that not all those who use the descriptor have done it any justice.
As you say history has ample examples of ideologies claiming to represent a national identity and who perpetrate unspeakably repressive crimes in the name of said ideology. Yer establishment parties so love to point that out whilst ignoring unspeakable crimes their own ideologies have committed throughout their history. In the name of ‘patriotism’ of course. (I’m not entirely sure they’ll understand the irony)
End of the day? It’s just a word. You judge the book by its contents, not its cover. Does the title fit the narrative?
In this instance, does the SNP Scottish government seek to be representative of the geography, the population and peoples of Scotland? Are they tolerant or repressive? Do they seek to include or exclude? Engage or alienate? Govern through reflection, mandate and representation or dictate from a position of power enforced?
If in each instance the answer is in the positive former, then they are doing some justice to the descriptor and seek to be a nationally representative party.
By the way it’s good to see AG at over 350 upvotes in the May thread, well done whoever you are 🙂
Sigh..if the FM had complained (live-on-air to Marr about his employer/BBC bias) he’d say he couldn’t possibly comment and that there are complaint procedures in place etc etc..and simply move on, seeing as he’s the interviewer.
Then C.A./Rock would come on here with a different angle to undermine the SNP leadership.
There are no OO lodges in the north east of Scotland but there is a lot of masonic lodges, from Aberdeen all around the fishing towns, frae the Blue toon to the Broch. Then you hit the Buchan coast and its hoachin with retired RAF types, all slavering at just the thought of their S_____d no longer existing and they can die in peace, great British peace.
BBC r4 gimp network’s Any Questions in Wales tonight, Leanne Wood versus likes of Boris Johnson’s dad. Beeb gimps have long ago dropped any pretence at balance now but BJ’s dad?
UKOK Rule by beeb gimp network, for how much longer.
link to bbc.co.uk
I’m in agreement with Ottomanboi about “nationalism”. If we let opponents define things then we’re on a slippery slope. I suppose that it could be argued that UKIP have ruled the use of “independence” out. And then there are those “Freedom” groups on the far right..
One thing that grates with me is the use of “BritNat” as it implies that we’re a region of a larger nation. Supporters of the British state should be “BritStats”, no?
And then there is a species known as the “EngNat” although it tends to be in a state of semi-consciousness at the moment, trampling over smaller things that it doesn’t seem to see…
louis.b.argyll
When asked about indyref2, which was a predictable question, the SNP could have had an answer ready like this:
Before we decide on whether to hold another indyref or not, we have to look at strategies to counter the extreme bias of the BBC which , we believe and studies show, actively supported the NO campaign in 2014, and which on a daily basis attempts the undermine the SNP Scottish Govt and the case for independence by the use of anti-SNP and anti-independence propaganda.
Of course the BBC would try to dismiss this and move on but, the point would have been made. I would have admired such an answer by the FM.
Would you have criticised the FM if she had given such an answer?
@Oh dear
No, nobody is going to rise to the bait and put pressure on the FM “you should be more aggressive and kill of Independence” because we’ve been on to you, oh dear, for a long time – some a lot longer than me (I was a bit slow).
Now GFY, there’s a good dear.
Macart says:
I have absolutely no reservation about the use of ‘nation’ or ‘national’, the meanings are fairly precise.
However, ‘nationalist’ and ‘nationalism’, that’s different. The response straight from google highlights the breadth of meaning …
” nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one’s country, loyalism, nationality; xenophobia, chauvinism, jingoism, flag-waving, isolationism;
ethnocentrism, ethnocentricity
an extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
advocacy of political independence for a particular country. “
The good and bad. My bold on the bad. No escaping the bad.
I would have admired such an answer by the FM.
Say something nice about the SNP or even the evil Sturgeon Colin A, you torytwa
No, I promised Petra, no more rude words btl WoS:D
@macart
The key word is appropriation. It might be argued that the idea of Scotland/Alba was appropriated by the British state and morphed into something that suited its politico-cultural ends. Scotland as the footnote to English history as the marginal entity is the result of that appropriation.
National renewal ie resurgent, broad spectrum nationalism is I believe the only way to get Scotland back to rightful ‘ownership’.
Our USP is Scotland, its people, its history, cultures, geography and patrimony. All else is just playing politics and mind numbing white noise.
@ Ken500, you’re holding forth on a subject which you obviously ken nothing aboot ken. Masonic Marches in Glasgow? what might they be, there’s no such thing! The Orange Order is not the Masons, are you the full shillin?
@galamcennalath
That is exactly the reason that Unionist politicians and the media often referred to the SNP as the Scottish Nationalist Party rather than their correct name of Scottish National Party.
Nobody ever calls the NHS the Nationalist Health Service.
That’s also the reason that supporters of Independence are always refereed to as separatists. Negativity is the name of the game and is not surprising that it can be seen on Wings too!
@galamcennalath
To the victors and the conquerors the right to compile dictionaries. This is the definition in a French dictionary..nothing about xenophobia, chauvinism or jingoism etc. Interesting!
I think this is a purely anglophone hangup.
nationalisme
nom masculin
Mouvement politique d’individus qui prennent conscience de former une communauté nationale en raison des liens (langue, culture) qui les unissent et qui peuvent vouloir se doter d’un État souverain.
Théorie politique qui affirme la prédominance de l’intérêt national par rapport aux intérêts des classes et des groupes qui constituent la nation ou par rapport aux autres nations de la communauté internationale.
In sum, enlightened national self-interest.
Hope WordPress doesnt turn the text into macaroni!
@galamcennalath
There is always a dark side (I’ve seen that somewhere before). As I say, it’s about judging the book by its content and that is what we need to encourage in folk. To look past the words and the headlines to the deeds, to the actuality.
Negative inference and insinuation is, as we are all painfully aware, a preferred tool of the UKs establishment parties and their media. They feed off ignorance and projection. I reckon it’s about educating folk that for every dark side and as you excellently pointed out above with your reference to Ghandi, there is also a flipside to that coin.
Heedtracker
I’ve said good things about the SNP: Carol Monaghan has been a good SNP MP. Her and other SNP MPs talents are wasted there as the power grab vote demonstrated.
I think Sandra White is a really good SNP MSP.
I like Mhairi Black for her willingness to speak out; it’s a breath of fresh air to read how SNP MP’s are coached to avoid answering questions and her revelation of the lack of communication between the FM and MPs like Mhairi Black.
I think the FM is a competent devolution administrator and a competent public speaker.
The SNP made me laugh out loud when they nominated Bill Kidd MSP for the Nobel Peace Prize. To be fair to Mr Kidd, he’s renowned for his photobombing before disappearing, to pretend he’s doing more than he does. That was genuinely comical.
Compare that to Saint Obama and Saint Blair getting peace awards after bombing hell out of countries and leaving a power vacuum for IS to fill. I had to laugh or I would have cried.
Don’t converse with the usual suspects , if you feel the need to converse with somebody put a appointment on with a Trick Cyclist much more fun .
@Abulhaq says:19 January, 2018 at 10:11 am:
“There is much dissent among scholars as to the origins of the embroidery, it is not technically a tapestry.”
Yeah! I know, Abulhaq. The point I’m making, probably rather badly, is the English/British nationalism they do not even seem to realise they exhibit. I mean that Dunkirk thing where they cannot countenance a great humiliating defeat and regard it as somehow being a great historic victory.
Like their present ploy of sticking Butcher’s Apron and made in Britain labels on Scottish produce. They though this would chasten Scots but in fact it has had exactly the opposite effect.
All of which only emphasises the stark fact that while Scots are genetically little or no different from the rest of the United Kingdom we most certainly are, in the main, culturally very different.
ronnie anderson,
We’ll no doubt get to meet the usual suspects at the next independence rally, or am I being a bit over-optimistic Ronnie?
😉
@cearc says: 19 January, 2018 at 10:20 am:
“Robert P,
Bayeux Tapestry was made at an English monastery AFTER a Norman abbot had been put in charge!”
See my reply to Abulhaq. Apology for my clumsy way of attempting to explain the point properly.
@Ottomanboi
Fine, but it needs to fit modern times, and to be nothing to do with Independence so as to appeal to all.
A for instance of that is The National’s campaign for Scotland the Brand, which is having some bite, not only in resisting the UJing of Scottish products, but in making people more aware of Scotland and the Saltire, and there’s Scottish companies pleased about it – of course.
But more needs to be done, hailing Scottish achievements, encouraging more, and making them Scottish, not British. In fact perhaps what Wingers should do is email The National with any major achievementes they know about that happen but don’t get reported in the usual dismissive media.
Colin/CAptain Hindsight, would I have criticised…?
Again, Marr would have simply deflected any NS criticism of his employer live on air.
You just answered with five more ‘if she..would you have, should she haves’.
I’m done, sorry folks, back to lurking.
“The media could not be played” which I often get.
Anyone got a link to the SNP PPB that doesn’t go through twitter?
yesindyref2
The only one suggesting aggression is you, with your “GFY” comment.
Listen to Petra, if you won’t listen to me, and stop the aggression and obscenity that drags the debate into the gutter.
@Robert Peffers
As much as I appreciate English culture and native genius I do not admire a tendency to ethnic hubris which lies not too far under the skin. I am often stunned by how little many English people know about Scotland beyond porrage, tartan and tossing the caber, the ‘brigadoon’ stuff seeming to be the limit of their ‘interest’. The implication is that Scotland just isn’t worth the intellectual effort: Scotland is by no means alone in getting the familiar glazed eyes look. They also tend to be bemused by the whole idea of independence. Scottish dna isn’t significantly different from that in southern England but by cultural criteria we are markedly different. Scotland is not just another Yorkshire, the much favoured comparator.
But trying to get that over is misspent effort, better employed closer to home.
Could anyone make last night’s ppb available on youtube for folks like me who don’t do TV, FB or Twitter – I’ve not been able to watch it so far ……
@yesindyref2
An awakening of national consciousness via a coherent, re-educating national movement may often be the precursor to creating the mood for political independence. Independence dished up cold without the trimmings may still be too much for the Scottish ‘heichgait’, too liable to the ‘how much wiil it cost me’ mantra.
@colin alexander says: 19 January, 2018 at 10:23 am:
“For fair minded readers of this site, I think they will agree that I made a valid point re no criticism of the BBC by Nicola Sturgeon on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show.”
Naw ye didna. As usual you never do make valid points.
What your comment indicates is that you do not know the slightest thing about modern, (and not so modern), broadcast studio set-ups.
In point of fact there has not been such a thing as a really live broadcast at least since TV came to Scotland and BBC Television had a very sombre start in Scotland broadcasting, (on a still not officially open Kirk o’ Shotts Transmitter), the funeral of King George VI on 15 February 1952.
Four weeks later the Kirk O’Shotts transmitter aired, “Television Comes To Scotland”, from Edinburgh’s large music studio to the whole of the UK.
By around 1957 my then best pal was working in the BBC TV studio close by Parkhead Cross and I would be in that studio with my pal on Saturdays while he set-up the sound equipment for the tea-time news insert from Scotland into the BBC’s national network.
We would then go to a Glasgow football match and return to the studio for that News insert and the sports reports before going to a dance hall for the rest of the evening.
Even back then nothing went out of that studio live. They had a tape set-up that used an endless belt tape. Depending upon the length of the tape loop the machine recorded first the composite video/audio signal – allowed the tape loop to pass through the machine and only then sent it out to be transmitted.
Thus the production team behind the soundproof glass could hear and see what was to be broadcast before it was actually transmitted. How the hell did you figure they could have, “Beeped”, out a swear word or inappropriate comment? No one could possibly anticipate such occurrences without such electro/mechanical aid.
Nowadays, of course, such devices are done wholly electronically and digitally and thus a longer or shorter delay can be used at the press of a button.
Don’t take my word for such things try the following. Turn on your DAB radio and tune to Radio Jockland. Now turn on your TV and tune to the Radio Jockland channel, (ch719).
You will probably notice that there is a short lag between the two broadcast signals that cannot be explained by possible different paths between the two transmitters. In fact most areas of Scotland will receive both signals from the same transmitter mast. I haven’t tried this with FM Radio or Medium or long wave receivers but it will probably be the same result.
Do you imagine that the SNP government don’t know that?
If Nicola, or anyone else, were to try to do such a thing as castigate the BBC the broadcaster would interfere, or more likely, “Suffer technical difficulty”. I have seen some comments on Wings and elsewhere with commenters saying it is strange the broadcasters seem to often have more, “Technical”, problems when SNP people are talking.
Here’s another clue for you, Colin. Have you not noticed that when there are SNP people on a remote monitor during studio items with the unionists invariably in the studio and the SNP people in a remote Scottish studio elsewhere in Scotland, there is a considerable delay between the question asked and their answer being made? Yet minutes later they will have a USA live interview with a USAsian political figure with little or no delay.
I sat in my wee pal’s sitting room last evening and there was tennis reports coming in from Australia with very little delay between the BBC London anchor and the BBC reporter in Australia. Just pay a bit more attention and you will see/hear I am right.
SNP PPB on youtube:
link to youtube.com
@Proud Cybernat
Thanks – plays for me at last!
Lol, some pathetic LibDum fud has complained to Ofcom about the PPB that he thinks someone looks like someone.
Looks like the Yoon Tinfoil Hats are out in force.
@One_Scot
Yeah, just clocked that. Awesome. 😀 LOL
You couldn’t make this stuff up, but they do. Simply jaw dropping mentality.
@Proud Cybernat
Thanks for that.
Lol, I see the lying ‘I am not a unionist’ Prof Scot is trying to gate crash the party. Lol, he’s probably not even a Prof.
Smallaxe 12.17 Optimistic noo that’s unrealistic the Usual suspects don’t stand out proud amongst honest men women , they’re fortay is hiding behind the sofa wie they’re keyboard , nae IrrnBru n Crisps tae sustain them , nip in nip oot dribbling aw er oor dance flair . Oanybudy goat any slippereen tae mop up the dribbles .
PS . at ah push some Talcum Powder but no the sniffin kind .
Thankyou for all your links earlier today Smallaxe.
This one about the Tory MPs from Scotland is a shocker.
A random quote from the article:
“…….As has been well-rehearsed, if the Scottish Tory MPs had voted as a bloc for the amendment, it would have narrowly passed by two votes, and the devolution settlement they are supposed to regard as sacred would have been preserved………..”
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
I think this is one instance where Wee Colin Alexander could legitimately have popped up and said he was disappointed that Nicola scheduled her announcement so close to that vote.
2017 to 2019 are the years of nationalist/indy punch and sneaky unionist counterpunch. (Or even of the unexpectedly crude headbutt carried out by TM & Co. in June 2017.) No need to make it worse. This is the land of (intentional) confusion.
ronnie anderson
You’ve got a good memory Ronnie. 😉
Bobby Byrd – I Know You Got Soul (Extended Version)
link to youtube.com
Oops, I thought I was in OT. Sorry.
Robert Peffers,
“I’m breaking my own advice here as I’m seeing far too many Wingers engaging with Rock so I did read some of his crap- I should not have bothered.”
You are an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.
And like all bullies, you are a coward who runs away the moment he is challenged.
If you are as clever as you think, why don’t you have your own site to flog your “knowledge”?
Instead of contaminating every article on someone else’s website with your verbal diarrhoea.
Why haven’t you ever written a book on the history of the union?
After 310 years as a colony of England, only an utter “numpty” like yourself would pretend that Scotland is “sovereign”.
“You are an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.”
How many times has that phrase been posted in WOS over the past year or so?
We tend to scroll past these days. New phrase required. Re-program and try the new software elsewhere, before polluting WOS.
Brian Doonthetoon,
“How many times has that phrase been posted in WOS over the past year or so?”
Every time the aggressive verbal bully, coward and nasty person in real life has thrown abuse at me without reason.
“aggressive verbal bully”
“nasty person”
It’s a shame, when someone, whose vocabulary is so bereft of synonyms, tries to take part in a debate, where a wider vocabulary would seem to be a prerequisite but then just turns out the same old phrases ad infinitum.
Genuine query… In what way did Europe assist in delivering devolution? I know Labour like to bask in the glory, but I understand they didn’t have much choice and Europe was relevant to it all.
Details seem obscure to research… Anybody clarify?
Hi Breeks.
This may help.
link to electricscotland.com