A matter of emphasis
A phenomenon we’ve reported on numerous times on this site is the strange way that the media will regard the same opinion-poll statistics in radically different ways depending on how the figures relate to their political agenda.
So if 65% of Scots say they think Alex Salmond is a swell and trustworthy guy, the headline will be “MORE THAN A THIRD OF SCOTS DON’T TRUST SLIPPERY SALMOND”. Conversely, if those numbers are reversed on a referendum poll, the banner lead will be “ONLY A THIRD OF SCOTS BACK SEPARATION”.
But there are other ways of misrepresenting numbers, too.
While today the press has decided that nobody will be interested in the news that pensions are guaranteed no matter what the outcome of the referendum, the story it HAS gone big on is a curiously irrelevant survey of businesses in England and Wales, commissioned by the British Chambers of Commerce.
That’s the Telegraph’s take, and it’s reflected in most if not all of the other coverage. But like some sort of paranoid cynics, we wanted to check with the source.
And what we found was some data that was, let’s say, a little more nuanced than the media was letting on. Because when asked what an independent Scotland should use as currency, the actual results were these:
Formal currency union: 35%
Separate currency: 28%
Join the Euro: 18%
Informal use of Sterling: 8%
Don’t know (implied): 11%
In other words, the currency union was the MOST POPULAR option. (Alarmingly, nearly a fifth of English and Welsh businesses didn’t have a clue how the Euro worked and thought Scotland should join it, even though that simply isn’t possible.) Excluding don’t knows, almost 40% support it, and on the same premise 48% of English and Welsh businesses want Scotland to keep the pound in one form or another.
To stretch the point further, if we also exclude the dopey 18% who want Scotland to do something that can’t be done, another way of spinning the exact same results is:
Scotland should keep the pound: 61%
Scotland should have its own currency: 39%
The presumed intention of the reporting is to convey the idea that business will object so strongly to a currency union that it would be politically impossible. (Ironically, 18% of them want Scotland to instead enter a different, bigger and far more difficult currency union instead, which reinforces our long-held suspicion that a disturbing percentage of British businesses are run by halfwits.)
Yet by simply applying a different emphasis to the very same numbers, we can prove that what the Telegraph would probably call “almost two thirds” of respondents would prefer Scotland to retain the pound rather than create a new independent currency – which is, of course, the only actual feasible alternative.
It’s always wise to check what you’re NOT being told, readers.
This is descending into a pantomime piss take.
They have lost the plot, and I don’t just mean Cochers, the whole dang lot of them.
They are not really trying except in some sort of absurdity canteen competition.
Very well done Rev, that British business is run by halfwits, well that is my take on the subject. Most I would not trust to run me to the bus.
Ah Stu you may be a brillian journalist, in fact you are, but you’d never make a newspaperman. People wanting to use the pound is not “news”
“Bugger” may well be right – is unionism losing the plot ? Trying to continue the pension myth,inventing “grassroots” campaigns whose roots can’t stand up to five minutes scrutiny, trying to make us all agents of Putin – it’s all so puerile and feeble.
We need to smash down each one as it comes and drive home what a bankrupt bunch of transparent liars they have allowed themselves to become.
Had a look at this on the BBC Website. CBI against Independence – and in other news, the world revolves round the sun, Bears do S**t in the woods and that guy in the Vatican City is indeed a Catholic.
This is not a news story, its a shameful bit of propaganda, No point complaining though, they’ll claim its even handed because of the wee quote from Stuart Hosie, as if that makes up for over 20 paragraphs of BS.
How many times do they need to be told ?. The currency will be the pound preferably in a currency union
It be interesting to see how much air time this gets.
I listened to this on the radio this morning. It was blatantly obvious from what was not being asked that the figures did not say anything untoward. I smiled quietly to myself
I read today that scientists at Edinburgh University have discovered a new type of dinosaur with a very long nose. The beast has been named “Pinocchio”. Until now I hadn’t realised that Better Together and their media chums had established a base in China as well.
Bugger (the Panda) says:
“This is descending into a pantomime piss take.”
I just had the misfortune of listening to Scottish Questions at Westminster which used to be the method whereby Scottish MPs could hold the Scottish Secretary of State to account.
More than 0% of Wings readers don’t trust or believe the MSM.
(I am assuming Derek Bateman still trusts the BBC).
“lies, damned lies and statistics” quote is appropriate here.
There are a lots of good books out there that explain manipulation of statistics. If anyone is interested and it is still in print this is quite a good read: How To Lie With Statistics by Darrell Huff, it was one of the recommended texts when I did statistics at Uni over 20 years ago.
I think I meant more than 0% of Wings readers DO trust the MSM!
Doh!
I’m not really in favour of a currency union, and think we should only use the pound until we can establish our own.
However, the crucial point here is the misreporting. I think time has come to fight back – please see my post under ‘Look Away Now’.
(Incidentally – another superb piece by the Rev. It’s only when you read good journalism you realise how dire the pap we’re sold really is.)
The crazy thing is that, even though all the polling indicates that Project Fear is failing miserably, they just keep at it. They really do have nothing positive to offer Scotland, so the downward spiral continues. Things can only get worse for BT, for one simple reason:
If people notice that Project Fear is failing, but continues at a pace, then it betrays the fact that there really is nothing on offer. Nothing at all. The penny will drop with almost everyone, eventually.
BT will keep at it right to the end, hopefully on 19th September when the remaining union-tinted lens are shattered and the white flag is finally raised.
I’d agree in general with the halfwits analogy but at the same time you’ve got to take into account that the establishment via the msm spoonfeeds the folk propaganda and misinformation to suit it’s agenda on a daily basis. People are being kept in the dark and thus ignorant of the real situation.
However business folk should know better – success means information finding and deciding what to do…
And Stu
63% want a reform of the Barnett Formula.
link to britishchambers.org.uk
I wish we could also get to a consensus about “don’t knows”. Do we include them, or exclude them? Or is it just a matter of fudging the numbers to suit your side?
Take the most recent TNS poll. You could have the headline grabber “Only 29% Support Separation”, but that looks far less impressive when 30% of the people responded “don’t know”. You could equally have the headline “Only 41% back the Union”, which is actually the lowest support for the Union of any poll.
Similarly the Daily Mail went with the headline about support for the Union “soaring” to 58%. But it didn’t. It was only 51%. Or even the recent ICM one that had 39% supporting independence, but excluding “don’t knows” it becomes 48%.
Personally I don’t like excluding “don’t knows”. It just gives sensationalist headlines & often misrepresents what the results said. Also kind of insulting to the don’t knows. After all, the majority of polls are now showing that “don’t knows” are where the vote will be won & lost.
Wow *:Oo …you are right Pentland Firth.
Scottish Scientists have discovered the ancestor… the missing link even… between the Amoeba and the modern day Labour MSP.
link to bbc.co.uk
UKOK Civil Service are spin doctors too mind. That Treasury top civil servant bloke Macpherson used his world face British civil service impartiality thingee to put the boot in, then said Flipper Darling made him do it. And this is hoe their BetterTogether spin docs at the beeb got it all out there.
link to bbc.co.uk
Project Fear have a target audience, the fearful. The die hard unionists will not change neither will the die hard independence voters. Their entire strategy is to ensnare and keep ensnared the undecided in fog of gloom and despair. It doesn’t matter if they exaggerate, contradict themselves or simply make stuff up as long as they can keep the undecideds too fearful to vote Yes.
I do not believe they have any intention of running a positive campaign or to think beyond a No vote. If the union still exists after the 18th September they will consider it job done. The fact that there will be political debris from such an outcome is not their concern. It perhaps should be their concern but at this point in time they are not thinking about it.
Bugger (the Panda) wrote: This is descending into a pantomime piss take
And how exactly does that differ from the rest of the output of the corporate “news” media?
Torcuil Crichton of the Daily Record must believe all this bullshit.
He has predicted a NO victory on 18th Sept and also a Labour victory in the 2015 GE.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Anybody who doesn’t believe in the bias from BBC Scotland just send them here – link to opendemocracy.net
Claire McNab
Now they are doing it deliberately.
One of my favourites in the George Orwell journalism genre was the STV headline from last week –
Survey says 8% of businesses would quit independent Scotland
link to news.stv.tv
You couldn’t make it up.
Joe, those 8% of business who would leave, are almost certainly the ones currently paying the minimum wage ( or below ) and offering zero hours contracts. They know that they wouldn’t be tolerated in a progressive society, so have to seek protection under a more uncaring and right wing regime – good riddance to them.
There really should be a zero option next to this question.
link to i.imgur.com
Aye,it always is what they don’t tell you or what they spin.
Kevan Cooper @12:53pm
On a previous thread it was pointed out to me that newsnetscotland have a form to send them details about any “Questionable BBC Broadcast”:
link to newsnetscotland.com
Personally I would use newsnetscotland rather than anything with the word UK in it.
O/t Vote No Borders have a facebook page which seems to have more yes voters commenting on it than they have “grassroots” dependency voters!
@HandandShrimp at 12.46pm say:
“Their entire strategy is to ensnare and keep ensnared the undecided in fog of gloom and despair. It doesn’t matter if they exaggerate, contradict themselves or simply make stuff up as long as they can keep the undecideds too fearful to vote Yes.”
Spot on. Mirrors my thoughts exactly.
Kevan Cooper @12:53pm
Oops, slightly misread your post, apologies. A reminder where to send info re BBC bias.
link to newsnetscotland.com
Can anyone identify the 8% of bussiness that would leave scotland in the event of a yes vote. I think they should be identified so I can choose whether I use them or no. If they wish to go then why don’t they go now make everybody happy. Sure others will be only to happy to fill their place.
So long, thanks for your perseverance.
Sorry I’m O/T so early but I have just had a friend in for a cuppa and she mentioned that she had recently seen something from U KOK that said “Vote YES for the union.” I have not seen this but was wondering if anyone else has?
Personally I think this could backfire big time on U KOK. When folks go into the voting booth on 18th September they will subconsciously remember “Vote YES for the union” and instinctively vote YES. Well that’s my take on it anyway, thank you all you U KOKers who came up with this one what a great wheeze it is!
I think I put up a link to this last night but can’t remember. If I did I apologise for the repeat. This was put up by the Sunday Herald on Twitter last night as a thank you to every one who bought the Sunday Herald on Sunday.
link to tinyurl.com
I did tweet this over to Max Keiser and Stacey Herbert as a wee heads up that not all MSM are anti Scottish independence after watching their latest programme, let’s just say Stacey loved it.
link to tinyurl.com
There also appears to be some folks asking the Sunday Herald if they will be doing T-shirts with the Front page on the front and the editorial on the back. Having thought about it I think just the main headline from the editorial would be sufficient on the back but hey ho we’ll have to wait and see about this one.
link to tinyurl.com
If it’s a fear game BT want to play then the thing most Scots should be terrified of is the consequences of a No vote. They need spelt out to ‘the fearful’ in clear terms!
Everyone needs to know that a No vote does not mean status quo.
Status quo has gone forever.
Post No, London can do what they like with Scotland. For starters that will mean scrapping of Barnett and unimaginable spending cuts.
More than 100% of BBC input into the referendum debate is less than 0% helpful.
Error margin 0.000001%
Does anyone know, what percentage of the actual membership of BCC in Wales, NI and England responded to the survey?
Journalists are the scum of the earth and not to be trusted. The most untrustworthy ones who are good at spinning get to be government advisers. Now that their trade is in decline due to plummeting newspaper sales,they are even more willing to slavishly follow their mafia capitalist masters in London instructing them to cheat,lie,spin and even hack the phones of dead people.
There are exceptions, one being the Rev. Stuart Campbell who has never misinformed me. Keep it up Stuart and you may find that other journalists may realise that you can be successful by being truthful.
Further to my post above … I’m sitting here thinking about it.
I can understand the high moral position of always pushing the truth and the positive. It has served the SNP well in recent elections. YesScotland takes the same line. In fact almost all pro independence pitches seem positive even when pointing out the lies from BT. I’m biased of course.
But maybe the time has come to spread some fear in the hearts of those who favour No but are unaware of the consequences. The world as we know it has gone. Yes, and we move off in one direction. No, and some very nasty things could happen! Spending cuts which will hurt deeply for starters.
There is much to be afraid of! And, it’s not the consequences of independence that worry me!
@ Lesley-Anne
2 of your links are both the same!
Macandroid says:
@ Lesley-Anne
2 of your links are both the same!
Oops, sorry about that I think that happened when I was adding a bit in and I copied the link instead of cutting and pasting it. DOH!
@galamcennalath – apparently it has been proven that if 2 negative campaigns are run – the more negative one wins.
But if a negative and a positive campaign are run – the positive one is more likely to win.
If we lose this referendum I, like others on here, will be distraught as it will have been lies that won it.
I don’t understand why folk are so scared when you see the mess we are in at the moment.
Re the people in the hairdressers – you can just point out the pension truth and as for those who ‘can’t stand’ AS – these folk piss me right off.
You see? This is the kind of bullshit I’m talking about.
Journalism DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY. Journalism does NOT have to descend into a mire of misrepresentation, lies by omission, ad hominem, and all sorts of argumentative fallacies. The only reason this carries on is because we allow it to carry on.
Freedom of the press should not extend to freedom to lie and distort with impunity.
After this shite, I’m glad to see the back of the entire UK news media. A new Scottish media built from the ground up, with new regulations to stop this, would be most appreciated.
@ Lesley-Anne
Sorry – very rude – should have said thanks for posting them and I enjoyed them very much
I think a George Orwell Award would be a useful counterbalance to the BAFTAS and Press gongs. What to award though. A little pig badge? Or would that smear pigs! A boot (stamping on a human face forever)? Too cruel? A poison pen?
I was surprised very little was said last week when Mr Naughtie tried to run a COC Scotland story about a survey of members in Scotland showing a majority against Indy. As hard as he tried the ?s asked it became apparent the numbers responding we’re tiny and the results not that impressive. In fact as he questioned the Chamber representative it appeared there was more positive stuff for Indy than against. The story had disappeared by lunchtime.
The numbers quoted above are not much beyond actual Scottish businesses fully signed up to BfS so far so again looks like the BT campaign is grasping at straws.
link to britishchambers.org.uk
__________________________________________________________
Q:BCC. Do you think Scotland should remain in the UK ?
A: Yes (85%)
Q:BCC. Can you say why ?
A: Because England needs Scotland’s vast oil wealth.
Q:BCC. So it’s not because you love the Union ?
A. Don’t be so fn stupid.