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A dereliction of duty

Posted on May 29, 2015 by

An alert reader today drew our attention to a detail we’d missed in a recent article in the Shetland News. It concerned Alistair Carmichael’s leaking of a false memo in order to smear Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP while the Orkney & Shetland MP was still Secretary of State for Scotland, and took the form of a quote from Carmichael’s Holyrood counterpart Tavish Scott, MSP for Shetland:

momogatescott

Two questions immediately leap to mind.

Firstly, it’s interesting that the paper describes Mr Scott finding out about Carmichael being the leaker on 10 May, then says he waited “five days” before defending him. Those words are used by the Shetland News, not Tavish Scott, but Scott’s actual public defence of Carmichael came on 27 May – seventeen days after Carmichael’s personal confession to him.

The five days referred to by the News are the ones which elapsed after the inquiry published its findings on 22 May. So we’re asked to believe that Scott was so angry about something he’d already known for almost two weeks that it took him another five days to compose himself sufficiently to comment.

Secondly, and more disturbingly, there’s no suggestion that Tavish Scott passed what he knew onto Sir Jeremy Heywood, who was conducting the inquiry.

We must assume, given that the Cabinet Secretary was investigating the leak as “a matter of the highest priority”, that he released the results as soon as possible, and that therefore he must have reached his conclusions very close to 22 May – let’s say the 20th, to allow for writing up, notifying the principals and so on.

The leak happened on the evening of 3 April and the inquiry was initiated the next day, although we can’t be sure exactly when any actual work on it began (the 4th was a Saturday). if we exclude weekends, the Easter holiday and the May Day bank holiday, the inquiry had 32 working days to produce its findings.

tavishscott

For almost a third of that time, Tavish Scott knew who’d leaked the memo, but – as far as we’re told – said nothing. The costs of the inquiry are yet to be revealed – a £1.4m estimate from Labour MP Paul Flynn, based on information from a “usually reliable source”, has now been withdrawn – but it seems fair to posit that the eventual costs to the taxpayer will have been considerably increased by Tavish Scott’s failure to do his duty and tell Sir Jeremy Heywood what he knew.

Carmichael’s refusal to step down and contest a by-election is racking up more costs by the day. A Parliamentary standards inquiry, a separate criminal investigation and a legal challenge are all currently in progress.

The Lib Dems – who still owe Police Scotland over £800,000 for protecting their UK conference in Glasgow last year – seem determined to waste as much public money as possible before the party, now with just eight MPs at Westminster and five at Holyrood, finally vanishes down the electoral plughole.

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    231 to “A dereliction of duty”

    1. One_Scot says:

      Something tells me the Lib Dums won’t be getting many votes in 2016.

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      “Help me Rhona! It’s Carmichael’s last hope really.

    3. Betty Boop says:

      They’re finished or at least they should be. Mendacity all around. Who else knew?

    4. gillie says:

      Was this a case of “Help me Tavish, help me”?

      Who else did Carmichael tell?

      1. Willie Rennie
      2. Liam McArthur
      3. Nick Clegg
      4. Sir Malcolm Bruce

      It looks like the Lib Dems had already drawn up plans to protect Carmichael before the inquiry report was published.

      Willie Rennie should be up front about this.

    5. Murray McCallum says:

      They are being very Liberal with other people’s money. Doing what it says on the grimy tin.

    6. Stoker says:

      The Rev wrote:
      ” So we’re asked to believe that Scott was so angry about something he’d already known for almost two weeks that it took him another five days to compose himself sufficiently to comment.”

      Perhaps he was being moderated or censored.
      😉

    7. mogabee says:

      Have we finally got to the bottom of this cesspit, or do the electorate need to find bigger shovels?

    8. Chitterinlicht says:

      Muchty me!

      What a tangled web of deceit those lib dems weave.

    9. Truthy says:

      Nationalism is always a bad thing, even if the folk costumes are pretty or we like the literature…

      [Huge screed deleted. Please see comment rules. If you want to post a lengthy essay about nationalism that has absolutely nothing to do with the post in question, then kindly have the courtesy to either (a) wait until more than a few comments into a thread, or (b) post it in Off-Topic. – Rev.Stu]

    10. McHaggis says:

      Stu,

      I saw a response to an FoI request on the £800,000 policing issue just the other day on twitter and it was flatly denied by the Police service in Scotland. Do you want me to try digging around for it again?

    11. Calgacus says:

      Taxi for Tavish!

    12. manandboy says:

      Tavish Scott – history in the making.

    13. Macart says:

      Well that’s the capper isn’t it?

      Party and personal electoral advantage comes first apparently.

    14. john king says:

      Never in my life have I been so keen for another election to come along, its like Christmas, I just cant wait to unwarp the next present! 🙂

      o/t
      Trisha Marwicks stepping down as Presiding officer, its funny that I was just thinking yesterday she’s done her bit its time to let her off the hook, well done Tricia, enjoy the rest.

    15. Anagach says:

      So Tavish has admitted to knowing about it on 10th May, did he contact the Cabinet Secretary to let him know ?

    16. desimond says:

      And our first witness is….

    17. Valerie says:

      I’m furious that this is what passes for public service in Scotland.

      WTF is wrong with Tavish Scott? I truly hope this party is finished in Scotland.

    18. Grouse Beater says:

      On Brewster’s BBC radio question programme today the usual suspects were asks what they thought Carmichael should do, resign or put himself up for re-election.

      Their response? SNP bad!!!

      To his credit, and fighting a wall of rehearsed SNP abuse, Brewster managed to stop the stupidity in its tracks.

      He never got an answer in full to his question.

      The audience was not pleased.

      Nor was I – but as Brewster kept saying, the other parties seem to have misread the mood of the public – tragically.

    19. Luigi says:

      Och, Tavish just made a mistake. Don’t you realise that, if every MSP that made a mistake that wasted taxpayers hard-earned money had to resign, Holyrood would be empty? He deserves a second chance.

      He will get one, in 2016.

    20. manandboy says:

      Come now, Tavish, tell us everything that was said in your conversation with Alistair Carmichael.

    21. Christian Schmidt says:

      Never mind Tavish Scott, has anyone asked Carmichael yet whether he is willing to pick up the bill for the inquiry (whatever it is), given that he could have cut the cost to basically zero by owning up on day one???

      (And if so, what is the response?)

    22. DeilTakTheHindmaist says:

      @Gillie – you missed David Mundell off your list.

      Going by his weasel-worded response on the Daily Politics, he has questions to answer too.

    23. Joemcg says:

      McHaggis-so do they still owe the cops £800k or not? Confused with your post! It’s pretty sickening how such a pointless and inconsequential party can cost taxpayers millions of pounds for SFA.

    24. jimnarlene says:

      I’m no gambler but, I’ll wager Slabbers and Tories were in on it (the initial “leak”) too.

    25. Onwards says:

      This is a party that survives on tactical votes and the goodwill and reputations of local politicians.

      Now they are widely seen as a party of liars who think it’s acceptable for members to get away with lying and cheating.

      Not the smartest move in protecting Carmichael. You would think they would want to make a fresh start.
      It’s obvious they all knew about it.

    26. Anne Bruce says:

      Re: the LibDems owing £800,000 for policing their Glasgow conference.

      For the life of me I can’t understand why Police Scotland haven’t instigated legal proceedings to retrieve those costs. In effect, the people of Scotland have footed the bill for their political gathering.

      Meanwhile, Police Scotland face a shortfall of tens of millions of pounds due to onerous VAT rules.

    27. Now's the Hour says:

      Scott always was, and obviously still is, the slimiest of operators. Given the vitriolic hatred of the SNP which permeates the LIEbDems, it’s no wonder they all kept their traps shut until after the election so they could retain a chance of grabbing a seat.

      The whole damn lot of them – Rennie, Liarmichael and Scott – should all be held to public account.

    28. Patrick Roden says:

      Tavish expressing anger is an attempt to distance himself from AC, and since Tavish will know better than anyone how the islanders are feeling about this matter, it is very telling that he is doing this.

      Simply put, Tavish is trying to get on the side of his own voters by expressing the emotion they are feeling, so we can now say with confidence that large numbers of LibDem voters are telling Tavish and the LD’s that they feel angry about this matter.

      Another thing that is troubling me about this is Alistair Carmichaels acceptance that Nicola did not say the things that the memo claimed.

      Now many people have asked how something that is not true got into this government document and this is a good question that needs an answer, but another question is how did Alistair know it wasn’t true?

      He says he authorised the leak without looking at the document, but once the shit-storm exploded (the next day) and an leak enquiry was initiated, with David Cameron saying publicly that he felt it was the LibDems who were the source of the leak, and the Memo being published all over the MSM, Alistair would now have known the contents of the memo, so when and why did he decide that the contents were nor accurate?

      Also, why are the UK Government/Scottish Office not trying to find out how a document that was clearly false came to be created by a civil servant and then leaked to the press.

      Just think of the potential for a lone civil servant to cause complete chaos if they can create a dishonest document that is a recording of a conversation between representatives from two government dishonest then leak it to the media.

      We all saw how the civil service got involved in a hostile action to undermine the Yes campaign during the referendum, so what action will the SNP take to begin to put counterbalances in place to ensure this undermining of Scottish democracy stops?

      This is why we must all keep digging into this memo leak, as I am convinced there’s a lot more to come out concerning the civil service’s part in this leak.

    29. Iain More says:

      The BBC still defending him though with its blatant attempt today to prejudge what the Court will decide.

      Cant the Police take out a winding up procedure against the Fib Dooms to get back that 800k they are owed? One for the legal minds I guess, it is a bit like that Tory Bill of gobbledegook where they get to have a veto on Holyrood Legislation and call it the most powerful devolved Parly on the planet.

    30. faolie says:

      Before the referendum, Carmichael would have got away with this. Not any more. People like Carmichael, Malcolm Bruce and the like don’t seem to realise that a new kind of politics has arisen in Scotland and it’s driven by the people.

      The old way of doing things is gone.

    31. Hamish10 says:

      During the smear campaign Carmichaels boss was a guy called Cameron who used the smear to undermine a Mr Milliband in England.
      I can only assume that as Cameron was in charge he accepts full responsibility for his cabinet colleague. After all he is calling for a guys resignation from FIFA on the same pretext.

    32. Lollysmum says:

      All parties knew-they had to be able to fend off press enquiries.

      It wasn’t a secret between 4-5 people. Any member of FibDems could have been contacted BUT the other parties members (MSPs/MP’s) would all have had to know their party’s line to deflect calls from press asking for their reaction & what they knew.

      Common knowledge I’m afraid. It now look as the world & his neighbour knew except the ‘saps’ aka the voters!

    33. manandboy says:

      Carmichael’s reputation is in shreds. What is there then to save by the UK wide wall of silence? Not Carmichael, who is now a political liability and a slur on the reputation of The Scottish Office, Westminster and the Lib Dems.

      In the face of this, one is propelled to think that the person/s being protected are further up the chain of command. Just more corrupt politics from the Unionist Eastablishment.

      37% of the vote gets you 100% of the power. Democracy and justice in the UK are both bankrupt. I can’t see the status quo making it to 2020 intact.

    34. heedtracker says:

      So, the leak happened on the evening of 3 April and the inquiry was initiated the next day,

      5th April Carmicheal casually lies about his leak/smear on Sturgeon and the French Ambassador C4 national news.

      http://news.channel4.com/election2015/04/05/update-931/

      General Election May 7

      Carmichael holds his seat.

      Tavish knew about Carmicheal.

      Heyward published findings on 22 May.

      Where is Carmichael’s fellow UK.gov minister Fluffy Mundell in all of this?

    35. Bigdrone says:

      O/T perhaps, but Who’s going first …. Carmicheal or Blatter……. Don’t hold your breath!!!!

    36. One_Scot says:

      It does have the stench of a ‘Better Together’ smear, rather than the Lib Dems acting alone.

    37. Natasha says:

      Truthy says at 1.40pm
      Nationalism is always a bad thing, even if the folk costumes are pretty or we like the literature…

      [Huge screed deleted. Please see comment rules. If you want to post a lengthy essay about nationalism that has absolutely nothing to do with the post in question, then kindly have the courtesy to either (a) wait until more than a few comments into a thread, or (b) post it in Off-Topic. – Rev.Stu]

      Rev, what are you thinking? That’s the last thing we want on off-topic!

    38. manandboy says:

      Where is the Law Professor, Adam Tomkins, when you need him. Oh, I forgot, he’ll be advising Carmichael to keep quiet and stay out of sight. Too busy to apply the Law to Alistair.

    39. Grizzle McPuss says:

      C’mon, everyone makes mistakes, give Tavish a second ch…

      Oh damn, that ones already been used.

      Eh, all politicians tell li…

      Not that one either.

      Looks like we’ve reached…”temporary amnesia” ?

    40. scott says:

      I may be wrong but did anyone else notice that Tavish was missing from FMQs yesterday,was him and Carmichael having a tete-a tete somewhere else.

    41. Brian MacLeod says:

      The LibDem appeal to the voters was as being a party of high principles having principles, the honest party.

      This has been blown out of the water by the discovery of covering up for paedophiles, their unseemly rush to power and acquiescence in all the worst of the Tory demonisation and culling of the underclass, and now by Carmichael’s big lie.

      What the LibDems have to decide now is whether to try to save his seat for now and lose the last of their support, or for Carmichael to act like a person with principles who has made a mistake and resign so the electorate can decide whether or not to keep him.

      If he stays, the LibDems are toast in 2016.

    42. Grouse Beater says:

      To splatter Blatter
      Or recycle Carmichael.
      That’s the question.

      🙂

    43. Les Wilson says:

      Tavi Scott, son of a Lord I believe, involved in house flipping scandal, who would believe he would be attempting to
      look after his own interests?????

      Oh I would anyway.

    44. galamcennalath says:

      There’s another date hidden in there too … presumably Sir Jeremy Heywood made some people aware of the findings prior to publication. I wouldn’t expect Cameron & Clegg, and for that matter Carmichael himself, to be told at the same time as the rest of us. Who had a prior nod about the findings?

      Although Carmichael knew he did it, he would have been told that his guilt was going public. It would seem reasonable that he then informed this constituency party and Tavish Scott. Could that have been the 10th?

    45. Wulls says:

      Christine Jardine, the defeated lib dem candidate in Gordon, has stated publically that the “police bill thing” is not true.
      You couldn’t make it up.

    46. Petra says:

      McHaggis says:

      @ Stu ”I saw a response to an FoI request on the £800,000 policing issue just the other day on twitter and it was flatly denied by the Police service in Scotland. Do you want me to try digging around for it again?”

      Just listen to the wee fly man!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3if1j3JJYZk

    47. BrianW says:

      the plot thickens by the day..

    48. george says:

      the third question

      if carmichael felt free to tell scott on the 10th, had he already admitted culpability to the enquiry?

      if he hadn’t it harms his “wait until the enquiry is complete” defense to C4 News and others – and scott is in deep trouble

      if he had, why wasn’t the enquiry published before the election?

    49. Chic McGregor says:

      A bit of fun from last year:

      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Now hear the word of the Lords

      The brain bone’s connected to the sleaze bone,
      The sleaze bone’s connected to the heart bone.
      The heart bone’s connected to the wallet bone,
      Now hear the word of the Lords.

      The wallet bone’s connected to the hip bone,
      The hip bone’s connected to the knee bone,
      The knee bone’s connected to the beg bone,
      Now hear the word of the Lords.

      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Now hear the word of the Lords

      The beg bone’s connected to the cringe bone,
      The cringe bone’s connected to the jaw bone,
      The jaw bone’s connected to the lie bone,
      Now hear the word of the Lords

      There is, of course, no back bone,
      There is, of course, no back bone,
      There is, of course, no back bone,
      Now hear the word of the Lords

      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Dem Lib Dem bones, dem bye bones,
      Now hear the word of the Lords

      Now hear – the word – of the Lords!

    50. Capella says:

      This Memo has all the hallmarks of the Zinoviev letter.
      The Conservatives are the electoral beneficiaries. The Liberals are the patsies who collude with them. The objective is to smear the Labour Party through association with a left wing group.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter

      Hope the Orkney team have managed to lodge their legal challenge today. So many questions. So few answers.

    51. This is all going to make the ‘tuition fees’ issues seem as nothing, next time voters can get back at Lib Dems.

      Unfathomable, why they are standing behind Carmichael at what will be such a massive cost for the party in for coming elections.

    52. Lesley-Anne says:

      gillie says:

      Was this a case of “Help me Tavish, help me”?

      Who else did Carmichael tell?

      1. Willie Rennie
      2. Liam McArthur
      3. Nick Clegg
      4. Sir Malcolm Bruce

      I think there are a few more names that you should have added there Gillie.

      5. David Mundell (as he was the official Sos bag carrier at the time)

      6. David Cameron (based purely on the fact that Number 10 refuse to comment on this issue definitive display of guilt in my view)

      7. Nick Clegg (cause if David Cameron knew, and I’m certain he did, then Clegg would also have known)

    53. manandboy says:

      Alistair Carmichael, David Mundell and, albeit less urgently, Tavish Scott, had one thing in common. They knew what the polls were saying, and therefore knew their political careers were on the line.

      Had the smear been successful, then none of them would have had much to worry about. But, it didn’t work and rebounded instead, making any revelations before May 7th suicidal for Carmichael and Mundell, and then later for Tavish Scott.

      But why would Carmichael tell Scott on the 10th, but not tell Mundell. Aaaand, how could such an event be kept from Mundell for 5 weeks when he is working in the same office.

      This affair is so obviously a sham, the whole country must recognise it as such by now. And yet the Government, Cameron and crew, are playing dead on it. They are lost – it’s the only explanation – and if so, will not be able to find their way back to their right minds. Intelligent governance, to use Agnieszka Karasiewicz’s phrase, is now even more a forlorn hope. bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/05/28/britains-european-affair/)
      Humpty has surely fallen, with inescapable consequences.

      What a five years we’re in for. Soon it’ll be time to go; you’ll know when you here a sound like ‘snap’!

    54. orri says:

      The £800K was the unpaid cost of policing the Lib Dems conference. However Police Scotland choose not to send them the bill and wrote it off. However they also made it clear they would not provide the same level of protection in future years.

      So technically the Lib Dems may have cost Police Scotland, and by implication the Scottish Taxpayer, that sum but were never charged.

      Hopefully not charging Lib Dems doesn’t extend to Carmichael should it be found he has a case to answer.

    55. Grouse Beater says:

      Carmichael should take a spell on the dole queue – either that or community service for a year, feeding soup to people on the dole queue.

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/the-despair-of-unemployment/

    56. Pam McMahon says:

      Of course this was orchestrated by No 10. The Tory/Lib Dem coalition was in power at the time; the Scotland Office is a department of that government and controls and carries responsibility for it, in the same way it does for the Foreign Office.

      Hopefully, when this action comes to court, advocates will have the opportunity to call those in ultimate charge of this election propaganda to account, by calling David Cameron to disclose the fact that he bears the ultimate responsibility for the Scotland Office and what it does. In this case, lying to and deceiving the voters of Orkney and Shetland.

      I think he will be made to resign before that is allowed to happen, which will be a real shame.

    57. heedtracker says:

      http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/1321679-bid-to-oust-alistair-carmichael-over-frenchgate-memo-leak-raises-40000/?fb_action_ids=10202674006931570&fb_action_types=og.shares

      “Who else did you tell you were about to leak this memo Mr Carmichael? ”

      May I remind you that you are now under oath Mr Carmicheal and if you perjure yourself in this court, you will face further possible criminal prosecution in a court of law.

      How’s that bloke Andy Coulson getting on this week Mike?

      His testimony at the Tommy Sheridan trial possibly contributed to Sheridan’s three year sentence at Barlinnie prison.

      So maybe tell the truth former Secretary of State Carmichael.

      http://www.sps.gov.uk/Corporate/Prisons/Barlinnie/HMP-Barlinnie.aspx

    58. Tackety Beets says:

      Maybe I’m just an old cynical fart ? Yea got it in one.

      Carmichael never saw the memo before release
      BUT he knew what was on it.
      He did not thunk it up or write it
      BUT he knows, and has always known, who did.

      Mundell “had nothing to do with it”, he keeps repeating “Ariston-esque ”
      BUT he knew all along what was going on and probably ( I’d be very surprised if he did not) discussed the saga or the option of such with Carmichael circa MID/end MARCH ?
      The instigation came from ……. you are correct.

      It all went to Jack-$hit when the French almost immediately came forward to declare the MEMO as a load o crap.
      As many have confirmed the standard protocal is “No Comment”

      For £1.4K , many on here could have done an investigation and had the Facts all written up in full with in a week or so.
      Jeez my view on life is so simple.
      We owe it to O&S to contribute what we can, when we can, Thank you

    59. Jim Thomson says:

      O/T (only marginally) – now that young Mr Carmichael’s case has been petitioned (or whatever they call it), a wee reminder about the crowdfunder

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

      If the case proceeds, the costs will have to be covered and it will be nice to have a reasonable buffer before that.

      I sincerely hope the funds (currently £43,615) turn into foodbank donations.

    60. heedtracker says:

      Carmichael never saw the memo before release

      He was caught by department phone records, so presumably his SPAD read it out to him on the phone.

      What happened and who he told between the memo being read out him and giving the leak go ahead is just as important as his bare faced lies on C4 news.

      Clearly the leaker phoned the Torygraph loonies, who then didn’t bother doing any actual journo stuff, like contacting French Embassy etc.

      If only they’d waddled round the corner to the phone box.

      Did Ruthie Babes get told, did No.10 get told and so on? Ruth Davidson needs to be questioned in court under oath.

      Its highly unlikely such an extraordinary smear on Sturgeon and the French Ambassador was all down to this one lying slob.

      If not, why did the French also decide to get involved in such an unprecedented way, in another countries politics, m’lud?

    61. manandboy says:

      “David Cameron has said Fifa president Sepp Blatter must resign, adding “the sooner that happens the better”.

      The PM said Fifa could only rebuild its credibility if Mr Blatter left.”

      By substituting Carmichael for Blatter, you’ll get the idea of what Mr Cameron should be saying.

    62. Bob Mack says:

      They could not organise a piss up in a brewery,let alone a Machavellian plot to smear the First Minister.The Lib Dems with the latest nonsense from Carmichael,Rennie Bruce,and now Scott,have shown their true colours. Yes,and it is yellow.Cowards and liars every one of them

    63. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Frenchgate kicked off on the week-end of 4th/5th April, right?

      If it was going to be successful (i.e. damage NS and SNP) then the polls should’ve indicated as much, but it would’ve taken time for the data to be gathered and then deployed for propaganda purposes.

      That didn’t happen on the weekend of 11th/12th because the story had pretty much been blown out of the water by NS and the French embassy. Any conspirators would’ve been hoping to see NS being grilled that weekend, the Sundays having a field day, Murphy jumping up and down on his crates. (Instead, Carmichael was already looking shifty, and his behaviour was already being dissected here and elsewhere.)

      So, time was running out, and then, on Friday 17th, we got this:

      http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/04/latest-scottish-constituency-polling/

      As noted here, on the day, the bookies’ odds on Labour winning any seats, even in their so-called strongholds, went mental – Katy Clark, for example, was already an outsider for North Ayrshire & Arran, but had been trundling along at 7/2 for weeks. On that Friday, late afternoon/teatime, something happened to make her 10/1 by 8.00 pm. That was one of the more dramatic shifts, but the pattern was repeated all across Scotland. (Labour in Glasgow S. West had been 8/11 on the Thursday- by Friday evening it was 8/1.)

      As speculated here at the time, something happened, and we did wonder whether it had anything to do with the release of the Ashcroft stats – it’s perhaps easier to see now, with hindsight, that they were the final nail in the coffin. The attempt to assassinate NS’s character by making her appear to be a secret Tory-lover had failed, and there was no time left for another shot.

      Even if this is plausible, it still begs the question – what were the bookies reacting to that afternoon?

    64. Andy-B says:

      I’m beginning to wonder if any Libdems tell the truth.

    65. Alan Mackenzie says:

      Hmmm. I have to differ with the general tone of comments here.

      Tavish Scott’s “sin” was merely to keep secret something told him by a colleague in confidence; something he hadn’t wanted to know in the first place.

      It seems unreasonable to expect him to have broken this confidence. Had he done so, would Wings now be criticising him for ratting on his friend?

      Perhaps some of the posters here dogpiling on Tavish Scott, who’ve been in this situation (I have been) and then betrayed the confidence (I didn’t) would like to speak up, describe the circumstances, and say how virtuous they felt at the time.

      Mr. Scott is _not_ a player in this game. AC is, DM almost certainly is, and most likely senior members of the previous government are too. Let’s reserve our venom for those who deserve it.

    66. heedtracker says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10dmK7O-KSY

      Fluffy and Carmichael’s version of Whispering Grass, Xmas No.1. Prof Tomkins, JK Rowling and Ruthie Babes backing vocals.

      “Why do you whisper, green grass
      Why tell the trees what ain’t so
      Whispering grass, the trees don’t have to know, no, no”

      M’lud?

    67. mumsyhugs says:

      O\t sort of – another belter of a post over on Wee Ginger Dug. What a writer!

    68. sandycraig says:

      Grouse at 1.55
      Agree wholeheartedly that other parties are still not listening to the will of the Scottish people.

      More programmes like ‘ Brewsters ‘ BBC radio audience based nowadays seem to have people who will not put up with evasive answers.

      Let’s see Tavish climb out of this hole of his own making.

    69. Valerie says:

      OT
      I see Scottish Lab are asking Police to bring charges against Sean Clerkin???

      How nasty and vindictive can they be???

    70. Clootie says:

      Now I know why Malcolm Bruce claimed all politicians lie – It certainly appears the norm in his own party!

    71. Lesley-Anne says:

      Andy-B says:

      I’m beginning to wonder if any Libdems tell the truth.>/i>

      WHIT?

      Did you not receive the memo from Malcolm Bruce Andy?

      You know, the memo that said ALL M.P.’s tell lies. The only bit that was missing from the memo was the bit about the LibDems being the worst of the worst. 😀

    72. Valerie says:

      @Alan McKenzie

      Your post might be relevant to a childs playground, but not appropriate where elected public servants, paid well from our taxes is concerned.

      It’s the same principle we condemn Carbuncle for, mendacity or concealment or being economical with the truth concerning a political smear, and a French diplomat. It’s disgusting behaviour – period.

      Scott was no doubt checking out his legal position, or trying to stay out of it. His duty was to make the liar fess up, or tell him he would report the conversation to the enquiry, thus saving some of the taxpayers money.

      You need to check where your moral compass is, this is not about setting a pal out, it’s honesty to the electorate who bestowed a privilege on you.

    73. Lollysmum says:

      Why did the French get involved?

      Could it be that they hold Scottish govt in higher regard than WM?

      Could it be that they could see democracy itself being undermined?

      Could it be that if they hadn’t then their own diplomatic missions/representatives would have been undermined as basically WM & MSM were insinuating that the French Ambassador (Sylvie Bermann)& the Consul-General Monsieur Coffinier were both lying about the meeting?

      Given the stuff that WM (coalition) threw at France in the last 5 years, it would not surprise me if it were the latter. Call it what you will but to my mind the French did what they could to limit any damage to themselves & their interests. I think they also saw this spat growing legs & morphing into a serious incident.They were right 🙂

      I thank the French for having the bottle to stand up & be counted! Merci beaucoup, mes amis.

    74. heedtracker says:

      Alan Mackenzie says:
      29 May, 2015 at 4:32 pm
      Hmmm. I have to differ with the general tone of comments here.

      Tavish Scott’s “sin” was merely to keep secret something told him by a colleague in confidence; something he hadn’t wanted to know in the first place.

      Something that he “hadn’t wanted to know” must be one of the most utterly ludicrous explanations defenderising Tavish around.

      All these LiBDem’s have done is try to keep their seats but they’ve done it the most disgraceful manner possible.

      Vote Tavish, he didn’t want to know. lol

    75. One_Scot says:

      Just read an article that states Carmichael tweeted last night that “it will all blow over”.

      The man is beyond contempt.

    76. george says:

      “Alan Mackenzie says:
      29 May, 2015 at 4:32 pm
      Hmmm. I have to differ with the general tone of comments here.

      Tavish Scott’s “sin” was merely to keep secret something told him by a colleague in confidence . . .”

      i have no particular issue with scott, except for the issue of timing.

      he may very well have been so angry with carmichael that he declined to defend him until prompted to do so. if that’s the case it’s understandable, but prompted by whom?

      if scott knew about this before carmichael had spoken to the committee that’s potentially much more serious for him, in that he should (perhaps) have come forward. if he knew after carmichael had spoken to the committee it’s far more serious for both carmichael, for leaking that information (again) and also for heywood, who would then have been proved to have waited until after the election before making the origin of the leak public.

      i think, given nature and timing of the smear, that all these questions need answers. if those lead to more questions then so be it.

    77. john king says:

      Anne Bruce @ 2.01
      “For the life of me I can’t understand why Police Scotland haven’t instigated legal proceedings to retrieve those costs. In effect, the people of Scotland have footed the bill for their political gathering.”

      If Police Scotland are considering writing off this bill, they should be told in no uncertain terms to think again, its OUR taxpayers money paying for the LibeDems conference security and they should be taking legal action to recover OUR money,

      And the Police should refuse to provide security in the future, let them hire group4!

    78. Ian M says:

      Take a wee think back to what was going on at the time of the leak
      Nicola Sturgeon had just become the Golden girl after the debate, the SNP were slaughtering the other parties in the polls
      Incumbent politicians about to lose their jobs.
      Damaging the SNP and NS in particular had to be job one for all parties.
      It is inconceivable that the Lib Dems did this without the assistance and approval of the Tories.

    79. Dr Jim says:

      @Alan MacKenzie

      That sounds as though you’re rating the level of offence to suit the offender and not determining guilt or innocence
      Is it hearsay or is it complicity

      If he indeed conspired in concealing the truth of what may be determined as an illegal act then he is as guilty as the perpetrator (If by your actions)

      If a man commit a murder and tell a friend
      The friend then not informing the police is guilty
      Being a friend is no defence even a stupid friend is still guilty

    80. ALANM says:

      I’d just like to commend Libby Brooks (the Guardian’s correspondent on Scottish politics) for being the first mainsteam journalist to travel to the northern isles in order to pursue the story behind the headlines.

      It’s an interesting piece which is well worth a read. Only mistake I spotted was her reference to Tavish Scott as an MP.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/29/surviving-scots-lib-dem-mp-faces-judgment-call-of-the-isles

    81. Jimbo says:

      Just to ensure that Carmichael doesn’t profit from being elected after his malicious smearing of Nicola Sturgeon, Nicola should take him to the cleaners for defamation of character.

    82. Stoker says:

      Grouse Beater wrote:
      “To splatter Blatter
      Or recycle Carmichael.
      That’s the question.”

      Yer ah poet an ye dinny no it Grouse.

      Since football bores me rigid and the world of sport has known forever and a day about the corruption within football, i would rather opt to pummel Carbuncle, it’s far more important.
      😉

    83. Lesley-Anne says:

      john king says:

      And the Police should refuse to provide security in the future, let them hire group4!

      Can they count up to four John?

      Oh wait a minute maybe they can cause they have 5 M.S.P.’s and 8 M.P.’s (well 8 M.P.’s for now at least) 😀

    84. Kenny says:

      John King, I can’t for the life of me think how it could possibly have cost so much to “police” a Lib Dem conference! Has anyone seen the attendance at these sad events?

      Surely slipping a couple of spotty teenagers £20 a day to keep an eye on things would have been sufficient? Tommy Sheridan attracts more punters in his “overflow” speeches in bars, yet there is never any need for Police Scotland to be present!

    85. galamcennalath says:

      Lollysmum says:

      “I thank the French for having the bottle to stand up & be counted! Merci beaucoup, mes amis.”

      Indeed. If the French had adopted the normal “no comment” line then the leaked memo could have caused all sorts of damage. I suspect it may have indirectly caused some damage to Labour in England as a component in the campaign to use the SNP as a threat.

      Paradoxically, once the truth came out, the attempted smear may have even helped the SNP. In Scotland it would be seen as just more BT skullduggery!

      I suspect the conspiracy plans expected a “no comment” from the French. And, when the opposite happened the conspirators (whoever they all were) would have gone to ground ASAP. Covering tracks as much as possible.

      Musical chairs, perhaps, and Carmichael left standing!

    86. Capella says:

      The People v Carmichael. The petition is lodged so there will be a hearing! Fiona Macinnes on R Scotland a few minutes ago.

    87. Kenny says:

      Papers against Carbuncle now lodged with the Court of Session. I know the four organisers are very worried about costs if they lose. I tweeted Fiona MacInnes not to worry, as I for one would be prepared to double/triple my original donation in that event.

      They have raised £40,000 in three days! The average sum seems to be around a tenner. If these brave people do have to bear costs, I would certainly be prepared to stump up whatever it takes to ensure no one bears any personal cost for standing up for Scottish democracy.

      I am sure everyone else here feels the same.

    88. One_Scot says:

      Latest update for The People Versus Carmichael

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/updates

    89. Capella says:

      @Kenny
      The fund is almost £44,000 with 3,000 donations. I would certainly donate another £10 if needed. So it will certainly be covered. They deserve all the support they need to take a stand in defence of democracy against lying conniving politicians.

    90. Alan Mackenzie says:

      @Valerie, 4.52pm.
      “You need to check where your moral compass is, this is not about setting a pal out, it’s honesty to the electorate who bestowed a privilege on you.”

      My moral compass is just fine, thanks.

      I see a detachment from reality here in many of the comments. Politicians are not always going to act perfectly honestly towards their electorates, and it’s not sensible to expect that.

      Tavish Scott, it seems, played no active part in this smear against Nicola Sturgeon – he got drawn into a subsidiary part of it against his will. Yet posters here seem to be judging him to be as guilty as Alistair Carmichael. That is guilt by association, something we’re not supposed to have.

      Mr. Scott simply acted as any of us would have done in the circumstances. I repeat my challenge to the other posters here: if any of you have received a “confession” from a colleague/friend/…, and failed to keep the confidence, please tell us about it. Such a person is in a position to criticise Tavish Scott.

      Many of the posts here, not just in this thread, contain an implicit “Of course, I would never myself descend to such depths of depravity” from people who likely have never been put to the test. It is sometimes not edifying.

    91. Famous15 says:

      BTW o/t

      My friends at GCHQ tell me Truthy is Yoda.

      Tram ,tramp tramp, Who is walking over MY bridge?

    92. Anne Bruce says:

      Kenny at 5.47pm.

      I have already donated but I’m with you on this. I, too, would be prepared to add more funds if need be.

      I’m not rolling in money but the petitioners should not carry the costs for trying to clean up politics in Scotland and the UK.

    93. Patrick Roden says:

      @ manandboy, how could such an event be kept from Mundell for 5 weeks when he is working in the same office.

      true and when you consider it was one of two people who were ‘responsible’ for the leak: Carmichael or Mundell and Carmichael had denied he was the source, why didn’t Mundell jump up and down more?

      @ Alan Mckenzie, I get your point and I did think about the loyalty to colleague aspect myself.

      The problem that this very article exposes is Tavish Scott has been claiming that he was angry when he heard what AC had done but waited five days to calm down before commenting, but now we know that he had known 15 days before he went public with his anger, so he’s also caught out attempting to mislead the voters.

    94. Peter N. says:

      Is the Civil Service inquiry report into the leaked memo going to be made public? I expect not, but bearing in mind that all involved “work for us” it should be.

      Were Alistair Carmichael and his Spad questioned in the inquiry?

      Either 1)They were not questioned, [why not?]

      Or 2)They were questioned and denied the leaking, [surely there should be consequences]

      Or 3)They were questioned and offered “no comment”, [could they do this?]

      Or 4)They were questioned and admitted the leaking, [in which case why not wrap up the inquiry in April?]

    95. Patrick Roden says:

      Ian M says:
      “Take a wee think back to what was going on at the time of the leak
      Nicola Sturgeon had just become the Golden girl after the debate, the SNP were slaughtering the other parties in the polls”

      Good points Ian, and I would add another: Labour Leader Ed Milliband was also getting good reviews about his performance in the TV debates and it was suggested that the one big loser in the debates was David Cameron!

      Make of this what you will!

    96. Dal Riata says:

      From ‘The People Versus Carmichael’ @indiegogo

      “The petition is lodged. Hearing will take place. He will have to answer now. You have done it.”

      Get in there!

      No more dinosaur politics in Scotland. Let them have their extinction event. This is a new Scotland. We are undergoing a political uprising. The people of Scotland are sovereign. Those elected by us serve *us*, we do not serve them. Any politicians who attempt to cheat, deceive or lie to the Scottish people, or become involved in corruption… Beware!

    97. Midgehunter says:

      Just a little side note.

      Over the whole period of the fundraiser for the Rev recently, 2897 persons contributed.

      The O&S campaign has (till now)after three days, had 2904 people willing to contribute and seek justice for the constituents of O&S. Well done.

      That’s worth a big round of applause, or should that be hear, hear…! 🙂

    98. Jim Thomson says:

      If anyone wants to discuss this (politely please) with young Mr Scott, his Facebook page is here:

    99. DerekM says:

      so Tavish knew but was so angry with AC he had to take days to calm down and be rational, pull the other one Tavish its got bells on it.

      Dont you mean you had hoped teamGB would whitewash it so you didnt have to say anything,but then at the last moment realized that AC was so toxic so you came out to try and save your neck.

      Hate to disappoint you but it never worked your p45 is being written by us just now, coming to you and your party in 2016,dont say we did not give you a chance to come clean
      you were warned as was your party.
      tick tock

    100. heedtracker says:

      Many of the posts here, not just in this thread, contain an implicit “Of course, I would never myself descend to such depths of depravity” from people who likely have never been put to the test. It is sometimes not edifying.

      I think this what they call “heresay, your honour” in court room dramas. Take Tavish’s word for it, you know he’s honest.

      Bollox

    101. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      I can’t help thinking it would have been so much simpler if the investigation had reported before the election instead of weeks after it – conveniently on the Friday before the bank holiday. Did they really think nobody would notice?

      At one time it looked as if it would report before 7th May…

      https://archive.is/JoD5n

      I wonder how it got delayed and who was involved with that decision?

    102. joe macfarlane says:

      Was AC ever asked about the memo at any local hustings pre voting ? Anyone from the isles able to answer this if they were present ? Would be nice to know if it was and again AC denied knowledge direct to his voting public?

    103. Marie clark says:

      @ Kenny 5.47, yep with you on that one. Would be happy to donate more to help thee good folks.

    104. heedtracker says:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/walking-the-dinosaur/#more-71498

      Its not surprising really that you have no moral qualms about Tavish Alan Mackenzie.

      All UKOK media, as usual led and coordinated by the deeply corrupt BBC are going batshit crazy over corruption at FIFA.

      Yet creepy old bettertogether THE Guardian says that despite being caught in a possible £1.4 million investigation Carmichael should not resing “as a matter of political principle.”

      FIFA’s a private company, LiBDem Carmicheal’s corruption may well have won 2015 GE for the Conservative party but that’s ok, by UKOK standards.

    105. ronnie anderson says:

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/updates

      Sos if this has been posted previously.

    106. Natasha says:

      @Alan Mackenzie 5.56pm

      Mr. Scott simply acted as any of us would have done in the circumstances. I repeat my challenge to the other posters here: if any of you have received a “confession” from a colleague/friend/…, and failed to keep the confidence, please tell us about it. Such a person is in a position to criticise Tavish Scott.

      If the colleague/friend had confessed that he/she had sexually abused a child, would you still advocate keeping the confidence? Just asking out of interest.

    107. Anne says:

      I will be happy to donate another £10 as well if it is needed.

    108. Balaaargh says:

      Given the amount owed to Police Scotland together with the budgetary constraints and the VAT disgrace, I wonder if a winding-up order would be a constructive threat to the Lib Dems to pay their debts?

      “Seeking a winding-up order can be an effective way of forcing payment.”

      DISCLAIMER: I am only using the linked article because it’s the most recent public example that I can think of where this has been used.

      It is not intended, in any way, to start another bunch of comments about new club/old club or anyone’s opinoion on those in blue who play at Ibrox.

    109. arthur thomson says:

      If Carmichael lumbered a friend/colleague with confidential information that he (Carmichael) had behaved dishonestly then the friend should have said ‘ sorry mate, you have just put me in an impossible position and I can’t keep my knowledge of the information confidential.’ Anyone who has worked in public service knows that they have a responsibility NOT to maintain confidentiality in such circumstances. No ‘friend’ puts another ‘friend’ in such a situation. Neither of the parties involved in this is fit for public office. It is ‘cover up’, small beer compared to the cover up of bigger scandals but in principle exactly the same. It must never be tolerated. Otherwise we get the corrupt public servants we deserve.

    110. stewartb says:

      For information for those posting about the cost of policing the Lib Dem’s 2013 national conference in Glasgow and reference to an unpaid bill, I think there may be a mis-reading of the situation by some contributors.

      I provide a link to the response from Police Scotland to a FOI request on the matter. It indicates no outstanding invoice awaiting payment. See: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/236796/response/588113/attach/html/3/2014%202277%20final%20response.pdf.html

      There does seem to have been an issue at the time with the Home Office as to whether the Lib Dems could draw on a UK government fund to meet security costs. This Home Office fund is available to UK-wide political parties holding their annual conferences at locations in England. There was a dispute over whether this same fund could be drawn on for a conference in Scotland.

    111. DerekM says:

      @ Lollysmum

      hehe yep team GB forgot something very important and that is the French hate them even more than we do lol

      I imagine in Dave`s Eu meeting once the doors were closed got a right roasting off the other member nations ,i know if i was the French president i would be giving him it tight,and after this there would be no agreement on Dave`s pathetic attempt to restructure the EU.

      I bet he starts shouting about getting a new trade deal and it was all down to his hard work,when the reality is the EU are pushing this out to member nations anyway.

      Gorgeous George running for London mayor hahahaha oh dear i think i just wet myself.

    112. Bob W says:

      @Alan Mackenzie

      Try using that line in a court of law and see how far it gets you. Yes my lord he did tell me he murdered Mr Plum in lthe ibrary with the lead pipe, but it was in confidence and he is my bestest pal.

    113. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Anne Every little helps I will be having some more bite,s at that cherry, Fiona,s a bit worried I,ve told her not to be We are all behind her & Tim.

    114. Stoker says:

      One for Uncle Bob Peffers and others with an interest in history.
      http://newsnet.scot/2015/05/celebrating-the-battle-of-stirling-bridge-seven-centuries-on/

      And for those of you interested in the avoidance of paying bills by the LieDems, here’s that link from the FOI site.
      https://archive.is/6ahH1
      OR
      https://archive.is/2VAlp

    115. izzie says:

      Whatever happens Carmichael’s name will always be synonymous with
      lying just like quizling =("Tractor" - Ed) and boycott =shun

    116. Alan Mackenzie says:

      @Natasha, 6.53 pm.
      “If the colleague/friend had confessed that he/she had sexually abused a child, would you still advocate keeping the confidence? Just asking out of interest.”

      Firstly, I’m not advocating keeping such confidences – I’m simply recognising that doing so is the normal human thing to do.

      Answering your direct question (about child abuse), I wouldn’t advocate keeping the confidence. What I would do if I found myself entrusted with such a confidence, I simply don’t know. I’ve never been in that position. I would surely find myself confused about what best to do, and wrenched from side to side over an extended period.

    117. Gary says:

      Carmichael, Mundell now Scott..

    118. X_Sticks says:

      Thanks cH – watching now.

      Should also say please give Independence live your support- their fundraiser is needing it:

      tvl.ink/crowdfunder

      Only at 33% so far. Please, please give this superb resource your help. They do a wonderful job bringing us stuff we’d never otherwise know about.

    119. galamcennalath says:

      To say there are some things Unionists just don’t get, is a massive understatement.

      Let’s consider a very similar, but different made up scenario.

      Same memogate but for Sturgeon substitute Cameron, for Carmichael substitute some mythical SNP minister Mr X, for the smear substitute “Cameron wants the SNP to take Scotland” supposedly spoken to the French.

      The story unfolds in exactly same way with only those mods. The smear is discredited. MrX lies on camera but is later collared.

      I would be both surprised and horrified. However, I would certainly not take the line that Mr X should get off just because he is from the party I support. I would expect him to stand down. I would expect the SNP to tell him to go. When Unionists called for action I would agree, and would not say they were having a witch hunt.

      Most of all, I would expect most Indy supporters to take the same line as myself.

      So, back to the real scenario. Why are so many Unionists supporting the perpetrators? Why do so many not see the gravity of what has been done? Why are they accusing everyone who seeks justice as ‘hounding’ and witch hunting?

      While many Unionist will be disgusted with memogate and the way it has unfolded, a great many seem to just not get it! Do so many Unionists really use a different moral compass?

    120. Dal Riata says:

      @Alan Mackenzie

      You seem to be very… ‘concerned’….

    121. Valerie says:

      @ Alan MacKenzie, are you serious? Did I just read that you wouldn’t know what to do about information about a child’s sexual abuse??? Jesus wept!

    122. Tinto Chiel says:

      It’s heartening to see we’re making our own revolution up here. The O&S crowd funding will really make the Establishment sweat, which is probably why they’ll pull the plug on Mr Carmichael to close things down.

      “Call out the instigators?”

      Oh yeah!

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zmkzshUvE

    123. Auld Rock says:

      Maybe I missed it but nobody seems to be asking what part Deputy Dawg Mundell played in all this. I know that if it had been me I’d have confided or maybe even CONSPIRED with him. Needs more digging, any thoughts?

      Auld Rock

    124. orri says:

      Actually if a friend had informed me he’d confessed to the police and was about to be arrested for child molestation I’d almost certainlly keep it under my hat until it became public knowledge as not to do so could warn any accomplises that they might be about to get their collars felt.

      The calling on G4 is exactly what the Lib Dems are being told they’ll have to do since Police Scotland won’t be providing as much manpower in future.

      The actual date of the leak is hard to pin down. The revelation was on 3rd April. The memo was passed to the Telegraph on the 1st and discussed for weeks beforehand. Perhaps even before the Purdah began. Think of it as setting a concealed explosive waiting for the right time to trigger it. The leaders debate decided it. Thinking about how often the accusation of preferring a Torry win had been made before then I wonder how much of that was softening us up for what was assumedly the coup de gras.

    125. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie
      I was going to ask something similar of Alan MacKenzie.

      Alan MacKenzie
      Are you for real? Would you actually have a second thought about protecting the identity of a self-confessed pedophile? Perhaps you need to be on a register somewhere.

    126. Natasha says:

      @Alan Mackenzie 7.34pm
      You wrote:
      Answering your direct question (about child abuse), I wouldn’t advocate keeping the confidence. What I would do if I found myself entrusted with such a confidence, I simply don’t know. I’ve never been in that position. I would surely find myself confused about what best to do, and wrenched from side to side over an extended period.

      To clear up your ‘confusion’, everyone in society has a moral and legal obligation to report child sexual abuse to the appropriate authorities. EVERYONE.

      It doesn’t matter what your occupation is, whether you know the child in question or if the person ‘confessing’ to you is your husband/wife/son/daughter/father/mother/brother/sister or someone you’ve never met before.

      The idea that you keep such information to yourself out of some sense of loyalty is totally unacceptable. If you don’t understand the basic principle behind this, then you don’t understand very much at all.

      Now, you might argue that what Carmichael did was not comparable in gravity to the sexual abuse of a child. You would be right. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t serious enough to warrant disclosure to the proper authorities (which some people would take to mean Sir Jeremy Heywood, but others might very legitimately argue should actually have been the electorate).

      Essentially it seems to me that you are attempting to argue that what Carmichael did – ie leaking confidential unverified information in an attempt to discredit a political opponent during a general election and repeatedly LYING about it – wasn’t that serious. On that point I think the vast majority of the Scottish electorate (and probably a significant proportion of the electorate of the rest of the UK) would strongly disagree with you.

      So would the Committee for Standards in Public Life, which in 1995 published the Nolan Report, containing the 7 principles of public life, four of which are Integrity, Openness, Accountability and Honesty. These are part of the Ministerial Code. Tavish Scott was as bound by these as Carmichael. Both appear to have chosen to ignore them.

      As a parent and a teacher, one of the most important things I try to teach my children is the fundamental value of honesty. How can I teach my five year olds not to lie, if they look around and see that those who govern society think that lying is acceptable? Liars should not hold public office – it’s as simple as that. And other people should not try to protect them when they lie.

    127. Rock says:

      Kenny,

      “Papers against Carbuncle now lodged with the Court of Session. I know the four organisers are very worried about costs if they lose.”

      If Scottish justice rules in Carmichael’s favour, the only choice left for independence supporters will be a Ghandi style struggle for independence.

      The justice system, the Law Society, the Electoral Commission, Pravda GB and the rest of the MSM are all heavily biased against us.

      Our 56 MPs are outnumbered 11 to 1 at Westminster.

      The Scottish parliament has very limited powers and it seems it won’t even be able to hold an independence referendum in the future.

      We can no longer continue playing a game with rules that guarantee that we can never win.

      Who is happy to wait for a generation?

    128. heedtracker says:

      Firstly, I’m not advocating keeping such confidences – I’m simply recognising that doing so is the normal human thing to do.

      Human erring, Devine forgiving.

      So let Carmicheal’s voters decide now and not in 2020. Also cant help wonder at the Britnat rage that would fall on the head of an SNP candidate that had tried to destroy the leader of Britnat land and slandered the French for kicks, because so what if they slander the French Ambassador, right?

      If anything like this historic Carmichael shyste does happen via the SNP, I highly doubt there will be anything like the repulsive, sneaky creepy Carmichael Bitertogether defence of them from anyone in Scotland.

    129. Rock says:

      One_Scot,

      “Just read an article that states Carmichael tweeted last night that “it will all blow over”.”

      And it probably will.

      We here are furious about this but Pravda GB and the media have more or less killed the story and the general public will soon forget about it.

      Cameron won’t push him because he himself was upto his neck in the smear.

      The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and will almost certainly rule in the establishment’s favour.

      Every politician deserves a second chance, except SNP politicians of course.

      “SNP bad” is one of the pillars of the unwritten UK OK constitution.

    130. caledonia says:

      First we have liebour
      Now the fibdems

      Hope the tories dont start blatently lying as its not so easy to find a word for them

    131. Rock says:

      If Carmichael had told Tavish, would he not also have told his close friend of many years Craig Murray?

      Craig Murray reads this blog. He has to tell us.

    132. heedtracker says:

      The tory that brought us this is retiring and says goodbye.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salmondbell.jpg

      He doesn’t mention how progressive liberal The Guardian did everything they possibly could to destroy Scottish democracy last year and why would he, its all over now.

      https://archive.is/1ZISI

      As we saw from the tv appearance of one of his prominent attack wet farts, they never will give up attacking Scotland running Scotland.

      Vote LibDem he told his readership 5 years ago, last week he said save a corrupt LibDem because that’s the teamGB way y’see, and he won a Pulitzer Prize for public service.

      Have a lovely retirement you sneaky shit.

    133. Dr Jim says:

      We probably need to give up on Mr MacKenzie I think he’s having a wee lend of us here he can’t be a real person advocating this nonsense

      C’mon Alan you’ve had your wee laugh

    134. DerekM says:

      @ Auld Rock

      One at a time Auld Rock lets not get our hand stuck in the cookie jar trying to take out more than is possible 😉

      If we get one then the rest will follow lets concentrate our efforts on AC first and see if he squeals.

    135. Free Scotland says:

      The tories have their grubby hands all over this. The last thing they want is for Carmichael to become a loose cannon, because, at that point, Mundell’s name is going to crop up with increased regularity.

    136. Rob James says:

      They’re all guilty. Either that they’re all as thick as two short planks. The rapidity with which they all took to twitter, without as much as a twinge of doubt over the veracity of the leak, conveys to me that they were all aware that a foolproof stitch up was being committed. Fortunately for us, foolproof doesn’t deign to the depths of these idiots and they have all been caught out.

      The silence from Labour and the Tories since the rebuttal has been a sure sign of their involvement.

      It reminds me of the Titanic. The Tories have manned the lifeboats, Labour are running around the lower decks like headless chickens and the Lib Dums equate to the band playing the same old tune as the ship disappears beneath the waves.

      Rule Britannia my arse

    137. gerry parker says:

      @Auld Rock at 8:16.

      It’s one of the questions to ask when AC has sworn on the Bible to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

    138. terry says:

      I should imagine that the establishment will have thought this through in advance and factored in damage limitation plans. Whether Labour were in on Frenchgate or just forewarned that the story was about to be leaked they knew about it too – judging by their response. Of course the Tories benfitted most out of the BT crew while their patsies – Labour and the LibDems came a cropper.

      Maybe they didn’t think the French would issue a strong denial – but no matter – they thought their power and brass neck would see them through. They would just attempt to weather the storm and as for Carmichael he could carry on for five years and then offski to the Lords.

      They probably reckoned the good folk of Orkeny and Shetland wouldn’t kick up too much of a fuss – unlike eg the more vocal Glaswegians. But in island communities where old fashioned values and leaving your door unlocked rests on trust and honesty, Carmichael’s actions would be considered even more alien and offensive.

      Did Cameron et al bargain with the good people of the Northern Isles launching a legal challenge? I don’t think so. However the judiciary is largely in cahoots with the establishment. Let’s hope for a good legal team and fair judicial process. And us mainlanders will be supporting you all in the months ahead.

    139. Natasha says:

      Rock says
      If Carmichael had told Tavish, would he not also have told his close friend of many years Craig Murray?

      Rock, do you even HAVE any friends?

    140. Valerie says:

      @Rock
      Craig Murray has hinted on his blog that Carbuncle is just a patsy having been set up by the security services.

      Either way, he went along with it, so he is well in the frame for taking the heat on this. Whether he chooses to enlighten us on his “co-workers”, is his decision.

      If the Police decide there is a case for them to follow up on, I would suggest Tavish Scott gets some legal advice as to whether he has aided and abetted a crime.

      I’m also wondering if there is a case for him to answer as to his actions to the Scottish Parliament? If he had information of importance to a costly and official enquiry being made by the UK govt., and withheld it, what does that say about his position in the Scottish Parliament? Is that behaviour compatible with his role as MSP?

    141. Splinternmamolars says:

      Dear Rev,
      Power ae yir airm.
      Ian Drury I believe had words sufficient for these people.
      They are contained in the first line of his fine verses composed in memory of Plaidstow Patricia.

    142. X_Sticks says:

      I think Carmichael is between a rock and a hard place. I reckon he is being told by his masters NOT to cave and resign as it could open the floodgates.

      Sorry to say I suspect the court action will be quashed by the establishment as it is not in their interest for this to come to court. Again those beside and above Carmichael could be at risk so strings will be being pulled and Carmichael will know this.

      I hope I’m wrong.

    143. Sinky says:

      O/T Gary Lineker very good on HIGNFY but still doesn’t justify BBC paying him more than they pay from our licence fees for the whole of their annual coverage of Scottish football.

    144. Alan Mackenzie says:

      @Natasha 8.32 pm
      “To clear up your ‘confusion’, everyone in society has a moral and legal obligation to report child sexual abuse to the appropriate authorities. EVERYONE. ”

      You’re twisting my words, I think. I don’t suffer the slightest confusion on this point. I merely stated that in the hypothetical case I would find it difficult to report a close friend or colleague. After all, if generations of religious ministers and school teachers[*], all morally trained, have found it so difficult, what chance would I have? You say you’re a teacher. Suppose one of your closest colleagues, somebody you’d worked together with for ten years, somebody you spend time at the pub with, had sexually abused a child, just a little bit. Just how long would it take you to report the matter to the police? A minute? An hour? Five days? Maybe not at all?

      [*] An acquaintance who’d been at an English “public” (i.e. private) school once told me that the sexual abuse of schoolboys by their teachers at such schools was not a myth.

      “Essentially it seems to me that you are attempting to argue that what Carmichael did – ie leaking confidential unverified information in an attempt to discredit a political opponent during a general election and repeatedly LYING about it – wasn’t that serious.”

      I think it is serious enough for Carmichael to resign, or be kicked out. I find it unrealistic, in the real world of real people, to expect Scott to have taken any action against Carmichael.

      “As a parent and a teacher, one of the most important things I try to teach my children is the fundamental value of honesty. How can I teach my five year olds not to lie, if they look around and see that those who govern society think that lying is acceptable? Liars should not hold public office – it’s as simple as that. And other people should not try to protect them when they lie.”

      The trouble with that is everybody’s a liar. Just nobody does it full time. Lying is an essential life skill. I would hope you can somehow bring your children and pupils to understand the difference between white and black lies, and as they mature, increasingly to discern the various shades of grey between them.

      Indeed the essential abstract point in the current controversy is the difference between the politicians and the people in which shade of grey constitutes the boundary between right and wrong. Maybe the Court of Session can sort this out.

    145. Macart says:

      Wee question.

      When was this genius scheme concocted?

      Pre purdah? Mr Carmichael would have been wearing his MP/SoS hat, yes? A member of cabinet, a government minister. That being the case, is Mr Cameron saying he had no control over his own cabinet?

      Just wonderin’.

    146. Sinky says:

      More o /t

      Substitute Westminster for FIFA and wonder why so many people in Ruk vote for the status quo despite all the compelling evidence.

    147. shiregirl says:

      @ Rock

      Certainly Craig suggests Carmichael is a friend but also states he agrees he should do the honourable thing and step down, friend or not.

      IMO, whether he told friends or not, he lied and misled his constituents. Tavish or no’. he needs to accept what he has reaped and just go. Like, now. So all that money can go to the food banks (and boney M would be how proud?!!)

      It reeks. And there is more to this, nae doubt.

    148. Fred says:

      Forked tongued lairdlings like Scott have been the curse of Shetland & Orkney for 600 years and with the self-styled John Thurso getting the order of the boot, surely the days of voting for the chinless are coming to an end at long last.

    149. Effijy says:

      I too pledge to double or treble my donation to the fund if any top up becomes necessary!

      With regard the “Scottish” Fib Dem Conference being policed,
      their conference was barely attended with pensioners being brought up from their English HQ to make the room look occupied.

      It was good practice for the BBC and Daily Rancid to Zoom in to make 4 people sitting together look like crowd.

      Can you imagine their next “Scottish” conference?
      I think that one experienced Care Worker could police it for them
      but would they pay the Living Wage?

    150. Rock says:

      Valerie,

      “Craig Murray has hinted on his blog that Carbuncle is just a patsy having been set up by the security services.”

      But that is not the point I am making.

      Craig Murray is an ex Lib Dem and many on this site have called him an opportunist for joining the SNP.

      I was strongly in his favour but was disgusted when he revealed after the election that Carmichael has been a close personal friend of his for a long time.

      How can you be fighting for independence and have someone who has been lying about Scotland for the last three years as a close friend?

      If Carmichael told Tavish, did he tell his close friend Craig Murray too?

      I think we should be told by Craig Murray.

    151. Natasha says:

      Alan Mackenzie
      Suppose one of your closest colleagues, somebody you’d worked together with for ten years, somebody you spend time at the pub with, had sexually abused a child, just a little bit. Just how long would it take you to report the matter to the police? A minute? An hour? Five days? Maybe not at all?

      You really are beyond belief! I can answer that one for you straight away. Just as long as it takes to pick up a phone and talk to CID. Child protection is the absolute top priority for all teachers and we are left in no doubt whatsoever that our first and most important duty is to protect the welfare of the child in our care. But we are also told that this applies to everyone, regardless of who they are, and it applies to the whole of our lives, not just when we are at work.

      The trouble with that is everybody’s a liar. Just nobody does it full time. Lying is an essential life skill. I would hope you can somehow bring your children and pupils to understand the difference between white and black lies, and as they mature, increasingly to discern the various shades of grey between them.

      A lie is a lie. Sometimes we tell ‘white’ lies to protect people’s feelings; that is excusable. Other lies are not; I don’t accept your ‘shades of grey’. It is true that realising you can lie to people is a specific stage in a child’s development – it is when they come to understand that other people cannot read their minds and have separate thoughts. This ‘Theory of Mind’ is what some psychologists think may be lacking in some kinds of autism. However, the essential value of honesty is, I think, almost the most important thing you can teach a child. Of course it goes hand in hand with moral courage, but I don’t see much of that in either Tavish Scott or Carmichael.

    152. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Fred (10.19) –

      ‘voting for the chinless’

      🙂 !

      No doubt, someone will be along shortly to accuse you of chinlessnessism.

    153. Rock says:

      Natasha,

      “Rock, do you even HAVE any friends?”

      Yes I do.

      But unlike you I don’t have any sycophants, nor am I a sycophant of anyone.

      And unlike you I am not comparing Carmichael’s crime to the crime of a paedophile and turning this fine article into a gutter press discussion.

      I still think you are an unionist agent, but like I said before, I might be wrong.

    154. Rock says:

      shiregirl,

      “It reeks. And there is more to this, nae doubt.”

      There sure is.

      But we are simple plebs up against the power of the British establishment.

      And they have the finest liars, I mean lawyers, that money can buy and the rotten to the core justice system is biased in their favour.

    155. yesindyref2 says:

      One after another, the LibDems are getting sucked into Carmichael’s effluent, and they’re not coming out smelling of roses.

      45,335 GBP, 76% of the total. Top QC engaged, and the petition presented. How many more politicians are going to be effluented?

      Time for the Lie to disappear from politics.

    156. Kenny says:

      Regarding donating to projects like “The People versus Carbuncle”, I look upon it as taking part in helping to free Scotland and reclaim our wealth to spend on fighting poverty and promoting free education, free health.

      At some point, we all have to take part in the struggle for indy and to defeat this colonial unionism under which we are all struggling, whether it is WM spending our oil money on vanity projects down south or the BBC with its suffocating distortion of facts, promotion of austerity and xenophobia, and attacks on the poor.

      In days gone by, it was not enough to stay at home and “support” the army: you had to take up cudgels yourself. Like then, it is not enough to just vote SNP and wish them well in WM.

      We too can get involved actively in the ongoing struggle for independence. By voting, certainly, but also by contributing what resources we have, whether it is money, time, experience or whatever. This is a national effort and if we all do our mite, we can create the country we all want to see.

      And if you have any money over, I suggest holding an “Auld Alliance” party with a mixture of Scottish and French foodstuffs and drink (maybe with some Norwegian cheese as well). And if you only have a fiver left over, you can certainly do not worse than buying yerselves a new summer wardrobe courtesy of these smashing t-shirts:

      http://hopeoverfear.bigcartel.com/product/original-hope-over-fear-t-shirt

    157. X_Sticks says:

      @Rock

      I’ll vouch for Natasha. She is NO unionist agent.

      Not totally convinced of where you’re coming from.

    158. Stoker says:

      @ Rev.
      We haven’t had a Saturday Soapbox for a while.
      Any chance of one covering UDI?

    159. Natasha says:

      Thanks X_Sticks

      Perhaps I am a cylon sleeper? At any rate, I still have a sense of humour (just!)

    160. Rock says:

      X_Sticks,

      “I’ll vouch for Natasha. She is NO unionist agent.”

      So why is she turning this fine article into a gutter press like discussion comparing Carmichael’s crime to the crime of a paedophile?

    161. Tackety Beets says:

      I had a quick blast thro’ the Non Scottish News casts earlier tonight , Not a mention .

      Anyone else hear or see anything ?

      How long before the rUk catches up with people power .

      I would love to see the expressions when they realise a Court case is in progress.

      I truly believe Win or Loose it will have an uncalculatable effect !

    162. James123 says:

      I see James Cook is being harassed again on Twitter by evil cybernats, the main protagonist is a certain George Foulkes, Sturgeon must condemn.

    163. Natasha says:

      It’s just to wind you up, Rock. That’s my sole reason for living.

    164. Rock says:

      Kenny,

      “We too can get involved actively in the ongoing struggle for independence.”

      A Ghandi like non violent struggle is the way forward.

      A major boycott of all those scaremongering big businesses.

      Any money saved for direct help to deprived families.

      No “charities” to be involved – the heads of the likes of Oxfam are on fatcat salaries, as are trade union bosses.

    165. DerekM says:

      will you two stop it you are worse than my bairns

      @ Alan i understand what you are trying to say you just went about it the wrong way maybe you should think before you post,and anyway its all whataboutery you have to be caught first and the Lib Dems have been caught.

    166. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Natasha & Rock –

      I hate getting involved in these barneys, but here’s a wee example which may qualify as a ‘shade of grey’.

      Few years ago I was asked to do a series of workshops in primary schools. It was to do with ‘creative writing’. The weans ranged from P3 – P5. This was in Scotland. I’ll be no more specific than that.

      In one school, I had to do two sessions – one hour each. The first went okay. Shared a coffee-break with some staff, then the second session. The teacher told me (this was in the classroom as the kids were settling back in), and this is pretty much verbatim:

      ‘This lot are a bit thick, but if you keep at it they’ll get it eventually.’

      It was horrible. I wanted to leave, but the wee ones were already waiting. I went ahead, did the session, the kids turned in some great drawings and short scripts, I left, and felt gut-sick for days afterwards. Even now, I still get a real heaviness in the pit of the belly even thinking about what those weans had to endure every day at the hands of that person – if s/he (I ain’t telling) felt comfortable treating a total stranger as some kind of kindred spirit in treating those children with such contempt, what chance did they have?

      Should I have reported that teacher? And if so, for what? Being a world-weary, cynical, bitter so-and-so?

      During that same series of gigs, but in a different school, I met an exhausted teacher who told me that she regarded her main job as providing a ‘place of safety’ for the children in her charge, especially on Mondays, when many of them had barely slept or eaten over the week-end – in coming to school they could get fed via the breakfast club and lunch. Anything else they got from their time in school was a ‘bonus’.

      We’re all on the same side here. Our priorities should be crystallised in whatever efforts are required to care for our most vulnerable. Sniping about anything else is a waste of priceless energy.

    167. neil bruce says:

      Caledonia says @8.48am

      “First we have liebour, Now the fibdems.

      Hope the tories dont start blatently lying as its not so easy to find a word for them”.

      How about the torlies, or perhaps toalies.

    168. heedtracker says:

      Should I have reported that teacher? And if so, for what? Being a world-weary, cynical, bitter so-and-so?

      You should have told him/her to his face exactly what you thought of him/her. How bad could it get?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEt5dEOcW0I

    169. Algernon Pondlife says:

      Caledonia/neil bruce,
      Why not just Tories?

    170. Bittie Glakit says:

      1 Polls say there will be a ‘hung parliament’
      2 Leaders debate, Sturgeon impresses.
      3 Tories need to encourage swing to them.
      4 Inoffensive memo in Scottish office found.
      5 Suggest it should be sexed up then leaked.
      6 Labour party receive info that leak is imminent.
      7 It will say Sturgeon wants Tories in, so she can go for Indy ref 2
      8 Labour get tweets ready
      9 Memo leaked by Carmichael’s side-kick.
      10 Sturgeon says it’s rubbish and so does French Ambassador.
      11 Labour read memo and realise it says something worse
      12 It says Sturgeon doesn’t think Ed Milliband is fit for the job of PM.
      13 Milliband is the real target.
      14 Labour start deleting tweets and say absolutely nothing about the matter.
      15 Sturgeon is harassed by the press-pack
      16 Carmichael denies Knowledge although he knows exactly who is involved
      17 This ploy by the Tories to swing votes in their direction works better than expected; they win by undermining Ed M.

      Tories have used the Lib-dems and hung Carmichael out to dry.
      They have duped the Labour party into conspiring, whilst putting the boot into Milliband
      They have caused the dreadful newspapers to continue maligning Nicola Sturgeon and they have stayed out of the spotlight.

      I hope that even if Carmichael stands down, that he is still taken to court and that he spills the beans about the dirty tricks of no 10.

    171. Sassenach says:

      O/T Lesley Riddoch said the Guardian ‘Opinions Editor’ phoned her after the STV show in which ‘The Tash’ was somewhat rude to her, and apologised for the man’s behaviour!! Hope springs eternal in the Guardian offices.

    172. Stoker says:

      neil bruce says to Caledonia:
      “First we have liebour, Now the fibdems.
      Hope the tories dont start blatently lying as its not so easy to find a word for them”.
      How about the torlies, or perhaps toalies.

      Watch yersels, you might end up being accused of “circumventing” the Reverends rules and finding yersels dumped into moderation where perfectly good posts are deleted and it can take hours for other posts to appear. Even trolls get to post ahead of you.

    173. Connor McEwen says:

      Mundell [mundane ]
      Dick Dastardly Cameron
      Muttley [Giddy ] Osborne

      They are the Disasters in Britain

    174. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Rock Would you stop your disrespecting A Winger ie (unionist troll) Natasha is well known personaly by many Wingers.

      Well done IanB. 11.35.

    175. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      @Ian B,

      thanks for your post – you are not the only one getting very bored with personal O/T ping-pongs across many threads which have been running for ages.

      If the folk involved would like do this on the O/T page or even better – Twitter/Facebook. etc. that would be fine.

      Perhaps if they are looking for an argument then they should go the Unionist MSM paper comments pages – they will find some there.

      No point in fighting about stuff here over and over again. We are supposed to be on the same side?

    176. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Heedtracker –

      🙂

      Haven’t seen that clip before. Very good!

      We all have perfectly scripted rants and/or lectures in our heids which are never aired in real-life. Therein lies the problem which, so far as I can see, is causing this Catch-22, and leading to all sorts of nastiness.

      I don’t believe that Rock is just a friendless lawyer-hater any more than I believe that Natasha is an agent of the British State. It’s entirely possible that both of them, and you and I, are all and/or none, and many more things besides.

      But, in here, we are no more or less than the words we submit for the consideration of others, and with that in mind I would ask, very kindly and nicely (a la Paula Rose) that y’all have a good think about what youse are doing and, if you feel inclined to fire-off a personal accusation against a fellow Winger, please consider just S-ing-TFU as a positive option.

    177. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Meanwhile – back on the Ranch…

      here is a very good article by the Shetland News…

      http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10762-thousands-fund-effort-to-overturn-mp-s-election

      I wonder if their banner line on their title is prescient …

      “Great is the Truth and it will Prevail”

    178. Patrick Roden says:

      I really wish people would stop saying things like ‘the establishment wont do anything about this’ or ‘they will all close ranks and nothing will happen’

      If that’s your defeatist attitude please feel free to keep it to yourself or bugger off because you’re no use to us who want to fight for our democracy.

      You do nothing but demoralise the troops with your ‘were already defeated’ attitudes, so what is it that you are trying to achieve?

      The whole point of wings and the comments section is we are refusing to be the downtrodden plebs that the elite can treat anyway they want.

      This is a place for people who have had enough and who want to fight back.

      If your only contribution to every attempt by people to fight back is to comment that the judges are part of the establishment so nothing will get done, then please stop contributing and grab your cap ‘n hand and get bow in your masters presence.

      As for the rest of us, we don’t give a shit how things have always happened, we don’t give a shit about the way the elite have functioned in the past, we are ready to fight back and fight back until we win.

    179. manandboy says:

      60 million people, with as many opinions about what will happen next, but nothing can stop the remarkable changes now taking place in UK politics. The electorate in Scotland is waking up, and daily, more and more people are discovering the truth. The genie is out of the bottle.

      UK politics has been shown to be totally corrupt as well as being a Unionist cartel. Career politicians, out to make a fortune, lying continuously to the electorate. Well, the end of that era has begun. The Labour Party in Scotland and Carmichael, is just the beginning.

      Nothing can stop it now, and time will take care of the rest. The Laws of physics guarantee that.

      There are several thousand full-time politicians in the UK and they have all been put on short notice. They cannot say that they were not warned. A tsunami of political force has struck the UK from the north and it will sweep across the length and breadth of the UK. What is corrupt will be swept away. A new politics will replace the old. The times are a changing.

      Right now Carmichael and his backers are betting against it because they have so much to lose. But they will lose everything as the people sweep them from office. Just watch. Don’t miss it.

    180. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hoss Mackintosh (12.46) –

      Good link there, and this jumps out:

      ‘On Friday Carmichael responded via email: “As you are aware there is a prospect of legal action being taken against me so I am afraid I am unable to assist you with the bulk of your questions.”’

      But didn’t Carmichael also say, via Twitter to someone, just last night, that this would ‘all blow over’?

      Anyone have a copy of that Tweet?

      Carmichael can’t assist journalists because it’s all sub-judice, but is simultaneously assuring buddies that it’s no big deal?

      Huh?

      How far down this PAR-TICULAR FUCKING RABBIT-HOLE do we have to go?

      Eh?

    181. John Moss says:

      Looks like the Scottish Liberal Democrats will be going the way of Scottish Labour.

      To lie, to cheat and expect people to pay their wages…I don’t think so. Tome for public servants elected or otherwise to respect the people they work for.

      And if they don’t respect us, they go.

      Simple as that.

    182. Eddie Munster says:

      It seems that the people defending Carbunkle, are the same folk that want AS strung up, because the Pouters said he lied about EU legal advice, during the indyref.

      Cant have it all your own way. Carmichael lied, its a fact. If he gets away with it, the brown stuff will hit the fan big style.

      No one will believe or trust politicions anymore and democracy of any kind, goes down the toilet.

      I dont think the USA, Iran, North Korea or the Russians will invade to help us out, because we have oil n they love bring democracy to countries, that oil or some sort of strategic importance.

      Good thing too, as was said by the whistle blowing sailor, as the trident nuke missile subs couldnt launch the nukes even it wanted too. The sub launching system is defective and nukes would land back on the sub. Thats if they managed the open the firing tubes, which they couldnt.

      The MOD are like the BBC, run by themselves and not really answerable to anyone but themselves.

    183. heedtracker says:

      http://www.spectator.co.uk/life/status-anxiety/9541262/nicola-sturgeon-protests-too-much-about-alistair-carmichael/

      Far right UKOK has another no doubt drink sodden bash at it all. You want to like far right shills but its just that they’re so laughable-

      Sturgeon’s a beastly liar

      “Why? Because it was almost certainly an accurate account of what she said to the French ambassador. More fundamentally, it’s hypocritical of the SNP leader to complain about duplicity, given her party’s conduct in the run-up to the referendum.”

      Poor old Tobes forgot to add that the French Ambassador publicly confirmed that the bloated fraud’s leak was a bare face lie too.

      Even BBC vote anyone but SNP Scotland says

      “French consul-general in Edinburgh, Pierre-Alain Coffinier, also said the memo was not accurate and that Ms Sturgeon had not expressed any preference for a prime minister.”

      Perfidious Albion. Hick

    184. manandboy says:

      Shetland News posed a series of questions to Carmichael via email after he cancelled an arrangement to be interviewed on camera in his Lerwick constituency office on Thursday.

      The questions concerned the timing of his admission to the Cabinet Office that he had authorised the leak and why he had waited until two weeks after his election to come clean.

      On Friday Carmichael responded via email: “As you are aware there is a prospect of legal action being taken against me so I am afraid I am unable to assist you with the bulk of your questions

      Earlier in the week he had explained on BBC Radio Orkney why he had not opened up earlier about his involvement in the leak.

      “The truth of the matter is that once there was an investigation in train I think it was the right thing to allow that investigation to go ahead. I co-operated with it fully as did my special adviser.

      Mr Carmichael’s responses to the questions asked of him by the Shetland news and by BBC Radio Orkney are not as frank as one would have hoped for from an MP who pulled no punches during the Referendum on Independence. In addition, there is a possibility that the meaning of Mr Carmichael’s answers may have got lost in translation.

      So, in the interests of clarity:-
      1. Mr Carmichael: “As you are aware there is a prospect of legal action being taken against me so I am afraid I am unable to assist you with the bulk of your questions.”

      What Alistair means is ‘I don’t want to say anything that might be used against me in court, and while I could just tell you the truth, that would almost certainly result in me losing my job as an MP, as well as getting some very important people into serious trouble and possibly resulting in them losing their jobs. So to avoid all of that I’m going to say nothing. You’ll have to find the truth by yourselves; I’m not going to just tell you it.’

      2. To BBC Orkney he said : “The truth of the matter is that once there was an investigation in train I think it was the right thing to allow that investigation to go ahead. I co-operated with it fully as did my special adviser.”

      What this means is: The investigation was going to buy me and the others time to get elected. I obviously did not want the truth to come out before May 7 because that would have been pretty disastrous for everybody in the Tory/LibDem camp. The investigation gave me the perfect excuse to say nothing. I did cooperate fully because I did everything they told me to do. They knew it was me, naturally, it was their idea after all, but the plan was to say nothing until after the election. They said they would take care of everything after the result. But this court case and the crowdfunding has put a spanner in the works. But, you never know’

      When something gets lost in translation, it’s best to go looking for it until you find it.

    185. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Heedtracker (1.41) –

      Hear hear.

      Especially this bit, which you also higlighted:

      ‘The reason she singled out Carmichael’s alleged dishonesty, rather than his breach of confidentiality, is because she doesn’t want anyone to focus on the substance of the memo. Why? Because it was almost certainly an accurate account of what she said to the French ambassador.’

      Almost. Certainly. An. Accurate.

      Young claims to be a ‘journalist’, but manages to string those words together (without punctuation) and then expects people to take whatever follows seriously?

      And he’s employed by ‘The Spectator’?

      (Isn’t that one of the most esteemed ‘English’ periodicals?)

      Could I possibly sound more incredulous if I added one of these wee things?

      :* 😉

    186. Teu says:

      It is never a good idea to stand shoulder to shoulder with someone who has been caught in wrongdoing against your electorate especially when in a few months time you are going to ask the same electorate to vote for you.. political suicide

    187. K1 says:

      Please forgive the length of my post…

      When I was six years old, a teacher slapped my head against a shelve in the classroom, telling me off for something I wasn’t doing ‘right’. I went home and told my mum, furious, she took me to school the next day and asked very politely to speak to the head teacher. She was accommodated and the teacher who had slapped me was pulled into the head’s office with my mum.

      As she recalled it (I remember the slap, obv’s I wasn’t taken into the office), the teacher was reprimanded by the head, and my mum was reassured that this would not happen again. She said it was all ‘very politely done’, and that was the end of that, it went no further.

      My mum says, that the teacher left to return to her class, and the head and her said their goodbyes. She made to leave. But once the head had gone back to her office. She about turned, went to my classroom, gently knocked the door and opened it. Signalling the teacher to come into the corridor she told her that if she ever laid a f***** finger on me again that she would personally come back to the school and drag her from her class and see if she liked being slapped and humiliated for something she’d done ‘wrong’.

      As she describes it; that teacher ‘got the message’. And I hope she never lifted her hands to any child again.

      You have to ‘stand’ up to whatever you know to be wrong, even if it is difficult, there were ways, as I’ve described above, during a different era when even hitting children was considered quite normal behaviour by authority figures in our institutions. When a more ‘creative’ approach to sorting out these issues needed to be found, because in nice ‘respectable’ schools back then, when teachers did something that we now consider obviously detrimental to a child’s well being, there was no ‘recourse’, no one was getting fired for slapping a child’s head so hard that it bounced of a shelve. The authority of the ‘respectable’ could not be breached and that tendency that exists within groups to protect their own ‘reputation’ was tantamount.

      Since then we have discovered that the levels of ‘abuse’ that have been covered up from all these former ‘highly respectable’ institutions are epic and the depravity of some it far exceeds the extent of my own wee tale above.

      More saliently, at the heart of one of the most ‘respectable’ institutions in our lands, the UK parliament, some of the worst perpetrators of these crimes have been shielded for decades. Those who have been placed in high office by an electorate who have trusted that these ‘respectable’ people will uphold human and fair minded values have abused their positions in the most heinous ways imaginable. The rest of the estates including the media, and other civic organisations involved in overseeing the care of our most vulnerable, have been found complicit in decades of cover ups involving systemic abuses.

      Even as we speak, there are countless investigations taking place, and we have all witnessed the set backs in attempting to bring any of the more prominent ones to account. Again because the ‘respectable’ established authority’s tendency is to ‘circle the wagons’ and ‘close ranks’

      This is why, I feel, the Carmichael case is so important.

      Whether the people of Orkney and Shetland, win or lose this court case, does not matter, they by their actions and the support of thousands of ordinary citizens, as one voice are challenging that ‘respectable’ authority.

      If it goes to court, which is looking likely, then others involved will be called. And if they ‘whitewash’ as some think they will, again by ‘closing ranks’. Then this just gives those of us who are dog tired of listening to their ‘this is the way it is, shut up’, even more reason to keep pushing for a truly open democratic means of challenging those who have shown that they are lying, smearing unprincipled charlatans. And that we ‘can’ come together to challenge them should any of them be ‘found out’ accidentally through their own incompetent failed attempts at lying.

      I sometimes wonder if my mother hadn’t told me what she did that day, and over the years since, whether, without her intervention, I would have developed the strong sense of what is fair and what is not, so acutely. Because she stood up for me, she showed me that she took me seriously and I was listened to. And I often consider those who have never been listened to, who have not been believed, and who had no one to stick up for them. And of how it makes you feel to be mistreated and of the feeling of relief that I experienced at six years old when I had the good fortune to have a mother who believed me, and who happened to have some ‘nerve’ and went out to set about righting a wrong.

      But I digress…and yet not…we need to pull the bad yins out and let the others who are complicit ‘know’ we have that power; not to punish, but to redress.

      And therein lies the tale; We can all each of us make a difference.

      You have to live with your own conscience, but when it comes to child abuse, it’s not difficult. The child has always to come first. End of. They are the future.

    188. Grouse Beater says:

      Sad comment from Craig Murray writing in his blog about the white roses in HoC SNP buttonholes:

      “An independent Scotland should not be a place where you dress like a florist’s advert before some fur-draped billionaire pensioner.”

      They are being subversive, Craig. Like you used to be.

    189. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

      K1 – absolutely superb and I agree with every word. Thank you.

    190. john king says:

      Alan Mckenzie
      Your obviously 10 and 3/4 so let me explain this simply to you
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSSIn55f6ow

      ALWAYS!!! run and tell mummy! RIGHT?

    191. Macart says:

      Some great overnight posts. Ian Brotherhood, Patrick Roden and K1, couldn’t agree more. We’re here for a reason.

      Many of us, including myself, have spent decades looking the other way, feeling powerless and disenfranchised and just trying to get by. Look at what you folks have done working together for the past few years. Sharing, communicating and supporting each other, its been nothing short of ‘astonishing’. 🙂

      You’ve been part of an awakening in the Scottish electorate which has upset an entrenched and stagnant political system. No ‘experts’ or professional politicians. Just people from every walk of life who decided enough was enough, time to do something about it. It gives other people hope that they can do something too, that they are not and never really were powerless. That we’ve all got it in us to lend a hand, however small, that can make a difference.

      All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. I’m sure Edmund Burke will forgive the paraphrasing, but the sentiment remains the same.

      Well said in all posts.

    192. asklair says:

      K1 totally agree, thank you for the post.

    193. McHaggis says:

      I am assuming this is real. Its the police response to the libdem £800,000 issue.

      https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/236796/response/588113/attach/html/3/2014%202277%20final%20response.pdf.html

    194. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      why would anyone with an ounce of self respect accept such an insipid, limp, frightened little girl like tavish scott as their representative? beats me. did you see his antics during indyref, embarrassment

    195. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Don’t forget the Menzies Campbell, former MP still wields a tight control on the LibDems in Scotland.

      If you want a punt from me, he is the one who would have persuaded Malky Bruce, Rennie and Tavish to say what they did when they did, despite whatever they felt personally.

      Campbell was the force behind the illiberality and undemocratic position of the LibDem in Holyrood and their refusal to enter into any dialogue with the SNP in 2000.

    196. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Has the lying smearer Carmichael applied for a job at FIFA yet? 😀

    197. jock mc X says:

      Ian blackford maiden speech.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wRAr-6ZetA

    198. Ken500 says:

      Everyone of the Westminster criminals should be taken to court, and out of public office. If the Police don’t do it the people will. Child molesters, fraudsters, thieves and liars, who are sanctioning people and starving them to death. Westminster criminals get away with murder. They line their own pockets with £Billions of public money. Most of them should be in jail, they are a threat to the public.

      Blair/Brown/Cameron/Osborne et al should be the next to be indicted. They have taken the equivalent of £Billions from Scotland and starved the vulnerable. Where is the Chilcot Report? Hidden by unelected civil servants.

    199. john king says:

      One day there are people on here who will be held up as the fathers of a new nation in my small way I am proud to be part of such a group of people and I will be (no matter the outcome) forever proud I knew MACART our very own John Adams!

    200. Fred says:

      Carmichael in his new role as “victim”.

    201. Effijy says:

      I too would like to reassure everyone that Carmichael is going to be brought to justice! Full Stop.

      The Westminster parties have all worked together with their media partners to use every corrupt means they could lay their hands on
      to keep control of Scotland and its valuable resources.

      History proves this repeatedly, but only last week we had confirmation of the dirtiest of tricks being used by covert Westminster forces in Ireland.

      We appear to be fortunate that they haven’t yet been killing
      us, but have no doubt it will be an option that Westminster have employed across the globe. Illegal Wars with death and destruction brought to millions show the extent of their powers.

      I consider the SNP’s policy of having nothing to do with the Tories has been endorsed by what they have managed to do to both
      their Labour and Lib Dem partners in referendum scaremongering.

      The Tories have danced rings around both parties and virtually removed any possibility of either becoming electable in the near future. Embracing the Tories is akin to mating with a Tarantula Spider.

      SNP/ Scots will not let Carmichael continue to benefit from yet another round of scaremongering, lies and distortion of the truth

    202. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      @Ian B,

      I think I have got your answer on the Twiitter thing.

      There are two Alistair Carmicheal MPs.

      A very boring one, @carmichealmp, who does not tweet much. His last one did have a link to saving the ECHR though.

      “Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament for Orkney and Shetland”

      and quite a funny one with lots of tweets and comments about blaming the SNP and not resigning.

      “Liberal Democrat Parody Member of Parliament for Orkney and Shetland. I am the Sepp Blatter of UK ”

      They look to have exactly the same names and @acarmichealmp tag so I do not know how that works – need some twit (is that what they call a Twitter geek?) to explain it all.

    203. Valerie says:

      @Boss 12.46, that Shetnews article is excellent, they are doing a far better job than those on the mainland, with the exception of The National.

      Looks as if they even know which two judges are looking at this.

      I think the most difficult part will be keeping up pressure as this gets mired in the judicial process, raising the cash and lodging the petition has been the most straightforward! Not trying to minimise how scary it must be for the organisers, who should be incredibly proud of making history, and stepping up.

      We need to think if we can bring pressure to parliament standards?

      K1, what a lucky child you were, my childhood was the opposite, but almost because of that, honesty and justice are paramount to me. I don’t associate with liars, and I’m not talking about white lies, which are of the ilk that your friends new hair colour is ‘nice’

      Surely most of us know what fundamental lying is?

      And not wanting to ‘re open the debate on child abuse, but if that exchange does anything to make ONE person rethink their position on reporting a concern from reading it on here, then it’s worth it.

      Never hesitate to report a concern about a child. I did a few years volunteer work for the Children’s Panel, which does enormously good work, and its often heartbreaking, but often uplifting. My message is the help is out there to take on your concerns, please report, no ifs, no buts.

    204. Grouse Beater says:

      There’s nothing like debating a case publically before its gone to court, crassly influencing the mind of judge and jury.

      From today’s Herald:

      “Professor James Chalmers, Regius Professor of Law at the University of Glasgow, said that the chance of success were “very unlikely but not impossible”.

      He said: “The petitioners are trying to use the law for something it was never designed for to do something that’s never been done. They’ve got an argument to make, but I wouldn’t want to bet any money on it succeeding.”

      Under the law, Professor Chalmers said they will have to show that Mr Carmichael made a false statement of fact about the leaked memo. They will then seek to prove it referred to a candidate – namely the MP himself which would require a broad interpretation of the law.

      Then, they will seek to show that the statement was about the candidate’s “personal character or conduct” which is not straightforward given the distinction between personal and political conduct.

      Finally, they will seek to show that the statement was “for the purpose of affecting the return of any candidate at the election”. Mr Carmichael may argue that the statement denying knowledge of the leak was not directly about the Orkney and Shetland vote, according to Professor Chalmers’ analysis.

      Aileen McHarg, Professor of Public Law at the University of Strathclyde: “I wouldn’t put any money on it succeeding. I would think it’s pretty much a non-starter, although it’s always open to a different argument.

      “The Act is very much focussed on regulating individual constituency campaigns, and the law has always drawn a distinction between national and constituency campaigns.

      “It seems to me that what Alistair Carmichael did was focussed on the national campaign, rather than his own election. It was to attack the SNP generally, and improving the position of his party. There isn’t a huge amount of contemporary case law, but the court is likely to draw that distinction.

      “What he did may well have had an impact on his own chances of election, but that wasn’t its primary purpose. It was about the national party, rather than any particular candidate.”

    205. Grouse Beater says:

      On the other hand, possibly Labour’s last honourable member, said this of Carmichael’s behaviour:

      “Veteran Labour MP Paul Flynn, who has already said that Carmichael should step down, intends to take the matter to the public administration select committee in the House of Commons as soon as possible.

      Shortly after the Daily Telegraph reported the leaked memo that Scottish first minister Nicola Sturgeon had told the French ambassador she secretly wanted a Tory government to be elected, Flynn wrote to the civil service head Sir Jeremy Heywood calling for the inquiry he had started on 4 April to be completed before the general election.

      He said at the time it was “crucial for the reputation of the civil service that this issue should not be allowed to influence public opinion during the election on the basis of a possible untruth”.

    206. heedtracker says:

      “It seems to me that what Alistair Carmichael did was focussed on the national campaign, rather than his own election. It was to attack the SNP generally, and improving the position of his party. There isn’t a huge amount of contemporary case law, but the court is likely to draw that distinction.

      GE 2015 was a national campaign.

      Carmichael’s a successful candidate in that national election. If he was a local council candidate, a Holyrood candidate or an EU MP candidate then fine, they have a hit.

      Otherwise their clutching at straws, unless these lawyers can show the May 7 GE election in Carmicheal’s constituency is not part of the national election.

    207. Dorothy Devine says:

      Grouse Beater , I noted that this morning and thought that the techniques haven’t changed.

      I look forward to the death of the Herald,Record ,Scotsman et al and the emergence of a more honest, investigative team of hungry journalists.

      I am fed up with the “experts” they happily laud and allow lengthy column inches to their ersatz expertise.

      One might think that Scottish members of the Fourth estate would concern themselves with their reputation and credibility – obviously one is quite wrong.

    208. Grouse Beater says:

      Dorothy: I am fed up with “experts”.

      Here, here! (Sorry – House of Commons speak catch on.)

      Amusing how those whom newspaper’s call upon for advice are ‘experts,’ yet never given any other justification for spouting anti-democratic opinion.

    209. cearc says:

      Jock MacX,

      Thanks for that link.

      Nice speech. Although I think he missed trick with the distances only mentioning south. As his most northerly constituent it is more than 166 mls. to me!

    210. starlaw says:

      In releasing this leak, Carmichael was indeed attacking the SNP, and not the candidate opposing him. But the benefactors of this attack would have been opposition candidates to the SNP.
      Carmichaels main opposition was the SNP candidate thus Carmichael was protecting his own interests to the detriment off the candidate opposing him by the use of untruthful smears.

    211. Calgacus says:

      Aye come on Alistair Carmichael, come clean, spill the beans on Tory involvment.

      You could redeem yourself.

      Resign and point the finger at the real criminals here.

      Stand for re-election, ask for forgiveness from your constituents

      This is your only way back to decency.

    212. A.Hamilton says:

      K1

      Excellent post, thank you.

    213. manandboy says:

      In today’s The National, Carmichael is quoted as saying ‘ the past five days have been the worst in my life’. Doesn’t sound like the comment of an innocent man, nor like someone who has suffered very much in life. I wonder did he take any paracetemol for the pain.

    214. Grouse Beater says:

      Carmichael is quoted as saying ‘ the past five days have been the worst in my life’.

      And for his family and close friends…?

    215. Fiona says:

      @ manandboy

      I think that if I was accused very publicly of something serious that I didn’t do, I might say something like that. The idea that my friends and family might believe it; that I might lose my livelihood if I could not establish my innocence; that my reputation would forever be damaged; these things would matter to me, and I think to anyone.

      Difference is that AC has already admitted that he did do it. And that is a distinction with a real difference attached

    216. North chiel says:

      Neil Bruce
      How about “Fairy (S)Tories ?

    217. manandboy says:

      Re the Carmichael Court case.
      A question has been raised here and it is this:-
      When is encouragement a dis-service, and,
      When is advising caution a service

      With IndyRef, our hopes and indeed our expectations were sky high, but we were misled, and our disappointment at the result was crushing and deeply painful. That is certainly how I experienced Indy. Even now, I still have moments.

      Had I been however in possession of all the facts, I can only assume that my hopes for Independence would have been somewhat more measured – and my grief, in turn, would perhaps have been somewhat less.

      So, I am not too keen these days in high hopes with insufficient homework as to probable outcomes. And yet, to be positive is always better than to be negative, and encouragement is always to be preferred to discouragement.

      In this great cause, many are young and inexperienced but have huge enthusiasm and high ideals, and have great hopes and confidence in a win. As we all did when we were young.

      But over time, we learn other attributes, forged on the anvil of our mistakes and disappointments. We learn to know your enemy and with that we discover what it will take to prevail against him.

      Not that those with more experience should deny those with less, the experience of defeat, but at the same time, a fusion of enthusiasm and experience is a proven recipe for progress – and success.

      Were England to have 600 million within it’s borders, it would not change one bit our need or our desire for Independence. But it might change how we go about it.

      And that’s the rub with the Carmichael case. The only avenue of redress is take him to court – but he and the court are one and the same Establishment.

      It is knowing all the facts and then devising a strategy, which in this case means taking into account that any court in the UK is on Establishment territory. Knowing that, isn’t necessarily a discouragement, but rather a strategic asset. Not knowing when you are in enemy territory is hardly a virtue.

      However, the crucial point in all of this, is not winning this case, but simply in making the case, in Court. It is in making the case that we change the course of British political history. It is in bringing the case that has shaken the Establishment to it’s boots and has prompted Alistair Carmichael to say that he has just spent ‘the five worst days of my life’.

      The same might be said for the Establishment itself, for like Carmichael, they too know that because the electorate has done this, life will never be the same again.

      The Lion has stirred from his sleep, opened his eyes, and doesn’t like what he sees.

    218. JET JOCKEY says:

      If I was Alistair Carmichael I would not drive alone across a deserted highland road, or go hill walking with a “close” friend.

    219. orri says:

      If anything this thread is a clear demonstration of why if the attempt to smear Sturgeon was an attack on every SNP candidate and member as well as it’s voters. It was designed to undermine trust in her and, through guilt by association, anyone who continued to support her as leader. The exact timing of that is critical but there’s a definite case that Carmichael was responsible for a deliberate attempt to impute his own electoral opponent.

      At the same time he tried to distance himself from that by not employing the diligence you’d expert from someone authorising the disclosure of a meeting of a member of the Privy Council and a foreign dignitary. I very much doubt he portrayed himself as being as calculated to his electorate. Not to mention that said incident could be classed as illegal. Although his involvement would me better classed as a conspiracy to break the law rather than do so himself.

    220. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 29 May, 2015 at 1:48 pm:

      “Trisha Marwicks stepping down as Presiding officer, its funny that I was just thinking yesterday she’s done her bit its time to let her off the hook, well done Tricia, enjoy the rest.”

      Great post John, I’ll second that. Trish is another great lady from the Scottish Independence movement. Scottish history has been frequently written by strong Scottish ladies and the SNP owes a great deal of its success to such strong women.

      Winnie Ewing and Margo McDonald set a standard that is continuing today in Holyrood and upon the green benches of Westminster.

      A toast tae the lassies!

    221. Robert Peffers says:

      @Valerie says: 29 May, 2015 at 1:51 pm:

      “I’m furious that this is what passes for public service in Scotland. WTF is wrong with Tavish Scott? I truly hope this party is finished in Scotland.”

      Do you really need to ask, Valerie?

      Remember this is the person elected to office who periodically raised the topic of the Islands seeking independence from Scotland. While it is the right of any identifiable group of people to seek democratic independence the relationship of the Northern isles to Scotland in no way resembles Scotland’s relationship with the United Kingdom.

      In 1469, King Christian I of Norway mortgaged Shetland to the Scottish crown to raise part of the dowry for the marriage of his daughter Margaret to King James III of Scotland. He’d done the same with Orkney less than a year earlier. James went on to annex Shetland to the Scottish crown in 1472.

      Attempts by Denmark to take Shetland back didn’t succeed, nor did Denmark accept offers by Scotland, in the early 16th century, to return the islands in exchange for military support. The law, economy, architecture and religion of Shetland became Scottish. Language, too, changed; it became essentially Scots. In effect the Isles were bought and paid for by Scotland.

      The United Kingdom is a Treaty between two equally sovereign KINGDOMS.

    222. Paisleybud says:

      Slightly OT but I noticed on question time that the Carmichael subject was slotted in as a “Scottish issue” to be treated briefly. I really can’t understand why it’s just a Scottish issue, surely all parts of the UK are concerned when a politician lies through the teeth to smear an opponent in the throws of an election campaign. On reflection I think he meant that it’s a UK issue but since it has happened in Scotland and the SNP were the party being injured by the union establishment then nobody other than some Scots gives a shit.

    223. Rock says:

      ronnie anderson,

      “@ Rock Would you stop your disrespecting A Winger ie (unionist troll) Natasha is well known personaly by many Wingers.”

      I want to end the sycophant culture that the likes of Natasha have developed on this excellent blog.

      Read all the comments made by Natasha on this article.

      She has engaged in gutter press type arguments by comparing Carmichael’s crime with the crimes of a paedophile.

    224. Rock says:

      Ian Brotherhood,

      “We’re all on the same side here.”

      It seems we were, until Natasha and her band of sycophants arrived on the scene and started patronising others and regarding themselves more equal than others.

    225. Patrick Roden says:

      People seem to be missing the point about Carmichael.

      He influenced his own election by telling lies to the media and his own constituents he only knew about the leaked memo after the MSM contacted him and that he was not the source of the memo.

      This turned out by his own admission to be a lie and the court case will be fought on the fact that it was this lie that had an impact on the result.

      The law states that a candidate should not use false information to harm the reputation of his rival or to enhance his own reputation, so he certainly enhanced his reputation by lying because had his constituents known he was lying a lot of them (judging by comments from people in O&S) he may have lost his seat.

      They have a very good case and when people begin to get called to witness the LibDems will become toxic throughout the UK.

    226. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      Thanks for sharing your story. A great post.

    227. K1 says:

      Can I just thank all those who remarked on my post for their kind words. Feedback is much appreciated. 🙂

    228. Rock says:

      K1,

      “The authority of the ‘respectable’ could not be breached and that tendency that exists within groups to protect their own ‘reputation’ was tantamount.”

      The plebs have been trampled upon by those in authority for centuries.

      But they have finally woken up.

      The establishment will do everything in their power to keep them in chains, as we witnessed during the referendum campaign.



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