A butterfly on a wheel
Craig Murray was today sentenced to eight months in prison for the crime of “jigsaw identification” of one or more of the complainers in the trial of Alex Salmond, despite the supposed existence in Scotland of a presumption against prison sentences for any crimes attracting a penalty of less than 12 months.
We believe he is the first person ever to be convicted of this extremely vaguely-defined crime, and certainly the first ever sentenced to imprisonment for it.
In her judgement Lady Dorrian cited a number of factors, one of which was that the case was an extremely high-profile one which had attracted a great deal of media attention. This was of course in large part due to the actions of an “unknown” person within the Scottish Government or Scottish civil service who illegally leaked the story to David Clegg, then of the Daily Record and now editor of The Courier.
In reality everyone in Scottish politics knows who this person was and whose orders they were acting under, but even though they’re not the subject of any current court case we cannot say their names or we too would face prosecution and imprisonment. (As ever, DO NOT speculate or hint about their identities in comments. Any such comments will be deleted and the commenter banned.)
In sentencing Murray to incarceration rather than the fine which is almost always used for contempt charges, Lady Dorrian emphasised the danger of dissuading victims of crime, and especially sexual assaults, from reporting the offence if they thought they might be identified publicly.
But it must be noted that NONE of the complainers against Mr Salmond were victims of any crime. The jury heard their evidence and the defence evidence – the latter of which went almost entirely unreported except by Craig Murray – and concluded that none of them had in fact been assaulted in any way whatsoever.
Several of the complainers gave evidence which in the light of the verdict suggested a strong case for charges of perjury, but no prosecutions (or, as far as we’re aware, even investigations) have followed.
At least 10 Scottish newspaper journalists have also published information which by any empirical measure enables the identification of complainers. Two separate independently-conducted opinion polls have found that far more people claim to have identified complainers via these newspaper publications than from Craig Murray’s blog. All the articles in question remain online, yet none of their authors have even been questioned or warned by the Crown Office or police, let alone prosecuted.
(The Crown Office has for over a year refused to tell this site whether we’re allowed to quote those articles or not.)
Craig Murray is only one of a long list of people supportive of Alex Salmond to have been prosecuted in connection with his trial – others, including this site, have been threatened – while absolutely nobody hostile to Mr Salmond has faced any criminal action. The official in charge of prosecutions in Scotland, the Lord Advocate James Wolffe, is a minister of the Scottish Government directly answerable to the First Minister. We are sure these matters are unconnected.
We understand, though we have not confirmed, that Craig Murray remains at liberty for now, pending a request for leave to appeal to the Supreme Court. He is an elderly man of previously impeccable character with a number of serious health conditions which could create a severe risk to his life in prison, and who clearly poses absolutely no sort of danger to society. His appeal fund is linked at the bottom of this post.
This is beyond evil. May the perpetrators rot in hell!
I am still in shock. This is no longer a country that I can call myself proud to be a national of.
All we can hope is that it gets overturned on appeal. Of course the damage to his reputation will have already been done by way he is being portrayed in the unionist media.
This is a sad day for Scottish justice which follows on from a sad period connected to the persecution of one man.
The fair World must be shaking its head in wonderment
Here Craig Murray list all those who DID reveal the women’s identities.
No doubt Dani Garavelli will be doing cartwheels of joy right now. Garavelli now works for Sturgeon coincidence?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/05/appeal-for-defence-funds/#respond
Given that Dave Llewellyn is in Court next week on the basis of a Mark Hirst-like political comment, I’m surprised that you haven’t been dragged off in irons (so far) given your ‘hammers’ advice! I surmise that the British State has no problem with such figures of speech when applied to readers of a pro-self determination outlook.
It never crossed my mind they would jail him tbh. Particularly after his comments about the woke folk. I thought that support would be quite enough to see him through the business
Any indication of the difference the delay in sentencing from last Friday to today made to Her Honour’s decision making process?
In other words, did she explain the delay in handing down the sentence when delivering the decision?
I just cannot understand how any SNP supporter can find this fair. How the hell can they not see what is going on? Independence supporters jailed while the unionist supporting Press get a £3m bung? How can they still possibly think that the SNP is a party of independence? Could it possibly be because that the middle classes, whom the SNP now represent more than any working class person, still believe that authority is always on the side of right and justice? To me the SNP are now no better than the Tories. They are a dishonest, corrupt and authoritarian party and I hope those who are still blind to their other antics get one helluva shock when their wee darlings go off to school as one sex and come home claiming to be another. Hell mend them.
I’m so fucking angry. You always wait and expect someone else to do something about this, about the corruption in the SNP, about the selling out of the Yes movement. There needs to be a fight back from the ground up.
Scandalous and shameful.
Where are the true journalists?
The double standards of this whole affair is stomach churning. There must be even some unionists who see it and shudder.
Stunned by this. My thoughts are with Mr Murray and his family.
One can only surmise if a number of ALBA maps might have changed things.
I am now firmly of the opinion we must adopt the US position of electing judges. I will campaign for this from now on
Shocking.
Of course, all of this malicious prosecution is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this tweet that Craig Murray just posted, no connection whatsoever, nope:
Craig Murray
@CraigMurrayOrg
Actually what I found most shocking about that was the peculiar determination of the judges to make sure that, during the three weeks we have to lodge the appeal, I am not allowed to go to Spain to testify in the criminal prosecution for the CIA spying on Assange’s legal team.
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1392051824128151555
The only good thing to come out of this is there is no doubt what kind of country we are in.
“Lady Dorrian says she is willing to put off the sentence for three weeks to allow the appeal to be lodged.
Defence say Mr Murray is due to give evidence in a Spanish Court on May 20 on a Julian Assange related case.
Lady Dorrian says in that case they could begin the prison sentence on the 19th.”
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1392048215520862208
So the sentence will commence the day before Craig Murray is due to help Assange out.
I’m left speechless this is just atrocious I think Sturgeon appointed Lady Dorrian into the bargain. Here it looks like a clear cut case of Sturgeon doing Johnsons bidding, they must have plenty on Sturgeon that’s for sure.
That is the Scotland that the SNP supporters have voted for. They should hang their heads in shame.
As someone who has headed up journalism schools and taught media law, north and south of the Border, I plan to post a considered response to this on my new blog. For now, I hope more people will read the one I posted earlier about how Craig Murray is maladjusted – in a way more of us need to be!
https://jaggy.blog/2021/05/08/creatively-maladjusted-craig-murray/
This is truly horrendous news and will shame Scotland with its Fascistic implications. I have only just switched on here after a fruitless attempt to access information on the politics around the current health ” crisis”. There is far too much censorship around the subject for anyone to get more than a one sided Government approved version of events. The Governments are spending fortunes on advertising to keep people afraid and vulnerable. Now I hear a journalist has been sentenced to prison on the most spurious, political grounds, I am simply frightened by that.
What the Hell has happened to this country and its corrupt political class and legal system? Nicola Sturgeon. That’s what happened…
I am as horrified as anyone about not only the sentence handed down to Craig Murray, but the very fact he was charged. However, I have to take issue with one section of your blog, which is when you write the jury “concluded that none of them (the complainants) had in fact been assaulted in any way whatsoever.”
There is no evidence for this. What we do know is that the evidence did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that anything that might or might no have happened attained the bar of criminal law. However, that is all. It does not, of and by itself mean that nothing could have happened – just that whatever it might have been (and I am happy to acknowledge, it might have been nothing at all) it had not been shown that it was a criminal offence beyond reasonable doubt.
The claim by opponents of Salmond that “not guilty” meant that something must have happened but he got away with it is no less misleading. I appreciate that this, in some quarters at least, has become almost a statement of fact, but coming back at them with the view that not guilty equates to nothing happened is no more helpful.
Re Craig, I am sickened beyond words but not surprised. Natural justice was ignored when the Guilty verdict was issued. The selective nature of the prosecution should have at least resulted in a commensurate sentence
Furthermore, heinous crimes committed against Alex Salmond by the conspirators and their British State allies have been ignored or winked at.
As an aggravation, the perpetrators of the civil wrong of the Complaints Procedure that cost Scottish taxpayers around £1 million, have escaped accountability so far. It has taken Alex Salmond himself to raise a prosecution against Evans. Meanwhile, has anything resulted from his efforts to get the police to investigate the unlawful release of his data to the Daily Record?
Outrageous……
A damned tinpot dictatorship.
Astonished, in some states over here, large corporations put money into judicial races rather than legislative. For instance, in West Virginia, a coal-mining area, the coal companies invested in electing judges that would allow them to continue skirting safety regulations.
I’m not saying things shouldn’t change. Obviously they must. Just don’t expect judicial elections to be a silver bullet.
As for the case itself, part of me wonders if the judge was waiting to see what the election result would be. Surely not.
Whatever happened to the presumption against short sentences? For a non-violent, virtually unrepeatable offence, it would be absurd to imprison anyone for 8 months. For an older man who’s not in good health, it’s insanity.
An absolutely shocking decision.
10 Brit Nat newspapers/writers get away with jigsaw identification, nothing happens.
1 pro Indy man gets it in the neck.
Today the Scottish judicial system, teamed with the SNP Government and Lord Advocate James Wolffe, joined the league of the worlds worst corrupt nations.
Justice is dead in Scotland.
The rest of the world should also take note that the people of Scotland are now being chained by the Hate Crimes Act which kills the Right to Freedom of Speach.
It’s time to call in the UN.
” What we do know is that the evidence did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that anything that might or might no have happened attained the bar of criminal law.”
I’m really bored of this argument. What the complainers alleged was clearly criminal. Had the jury believed any of it happened they had no choice but to find Salmond guilty. They did not. He was and remains innocent of any crime, and that means that in the eyes of the law no crime was ever committed, and therefore the allegations were false.
I’m absolutely shocked and dismayed. Scotland is still descending into a very dark place.
Holymacmoses. ” Go woke Go broke” as is commonly said these days.
Simply shocking.
There is no good reason for a period of imprisonment.
Deafening silence from Scottish journalists is equally shocking.
Very best wishes to Craig and his family.
Craig Murray was always a problem for Sturgeon, In 2015 he got veto’ed from selection as a candidate.
Sturgeon is afraid of people like him
What is worrying, is Sturgeon pursuing an agenda that will escalate , Mark my words!! and oppress free speech , a critism on a blog ,forum or other non-MSM platform will result in HER taking action .
If you are a follower or better a SNP member and use facebook
I would bet Murrell has had a good search.
It is only a matter of time before one of the favourites, gets outed
Recent events regarding a Blubbering MP ,to me suggest the victim is on to be a candidate at the first by-election
And If the likes of MacDonald sprouts his gloating pish. I do hope folk record it .
I think I said that quite calmly
”Whatever happened to the presumption against short sentences? For a non-violent, virtually unrepeatable offence, it would be absurd to imprison anyone for 8 months. For an older man who’s not in good health, it’s insanity.”
Good point, edited in.
There is no separation between government and law in Scotland. A precipitous drop in the standard of government leads-on to a precipitous drop in the standard of law. This was always going to happen.
Alasdair Galloway, I believe there were at least two charges where the offence either happened as described by the prosecution or could not possibly have happened as described by the defence. There was the one in the thirty second car ride and the one where the accuser was demonstrably not present. I have not followed the case as closely as some, so there may be evidence I have missed that points to the circumstances in other charges being impossible.
I cannot help feeling that this whole case is rather like the Duke Lacrosse case from around fifteen years ago. The difference is that the evidence unraveled in plain sight and the charges were dropped. Incidentally, the accuser in that case is serving a sentence for the second degree murder of her boyfriend.
The delay in sentencing was predicated on the results of the Holyrood election so clearly a undue political influence on the judicial system. Help. We need a lawyer.
Lady Dorrian has just confirmed beyond doubt that everything Craig Murray claimed about what was going on at the heart of the Scottish Government is true.
“Where are the journalists?” All the good journalists are in prison right now.
Welcome to life under national socialism.
“Lady” Dorrian is pretty fucking blatant is she not?
Ich fahne hoch…
We don’t have a justice system in Scotland currently. Under Sturgeon, Wolffe and Yousaf we have an injustice system.
The manufacturered delay in sentencing until after the Holyrood Election results were known, is blatantly obvious now.
The Covid delay to counting ballots which was not foreseen when the original date for sentencing was made caused Dorrian to delay from Friday until today.
That makes this a very clear cut, politically motivated prosecution.
Dorrian is going against her own legal obligations and ethical duties in handing down a custodial sentence.
Combined with the lack of action against Garavelli et al, leads me to believe that there is no plausible explanation other than the fact that this is yet another malicious prosecution brought by the COPFS.
This time to silence the evidence that perjury was committed by those either in Government or their close associates in an attempt to jail an innocent man for the rest of his natural life.
This is beyond disgusting.
Absolutely fucking disgraceful behaviour by our government.
Let’s not kid ourselves here, it is the government that are pulling the strings and were waiting until after the election to avoid fallout from this farce.
The entirety of the comments under “The National” story on this as at now:
P McDonald 47 mins ago
User ID: 1514264
32
A sad day indeed for Scotland and a wake up call to all the naive in Scotland who believe that we have plenty of time to decide when we will choose the best time to push for our independence. The complacency and naivety in Scotlan over the position we are now in is staggering.
Last Updated: 22 mins ago
Stephen Roney 37 mins ago
User ID: 1078711
22
Craig, you’re a Nationalist, and henceforth an enemy of the state. Just like Margaret Ferrier MP who was charged with breaking Covid restrictions by Scottish Police. You two should have been Unionist like George Galloway, who did the same. One rule for Unionists, and another rule for us. Nothing changes.
Last Updated: 22 mins ago
Morna Kirk 36 mins ago
User ID: 1701923
26
Utterly disgusted with our “justice system.” Don’t you find it strange that Dani Gravielli, Kirsty Wark and others, who provided much more information and led to more people identifying the women have been ignored in this witch-hunt? Despicable and wrong! Our whole system, from the top, needs a complete overhaul. I’m ashamed to be Scottish today.
Last Updated: 22 mins ago
Margaret Eleftheriou 29 mins ago
User ID: 1096937
9
Shame isn’t strong enough. I also feel utterly enraged that this is being done in my name, that Scotland is internationally disgraced, and the powers that be are utterly complacent in this travesty of justice. Kirsty Wark must be dancing on Craig’s grave.
Last Updated: 21 mins ago
Hugh Hunter 32 mins ago
User ID: 2121709
15
Disgusting! That’s Scottish justice in the twenty first century, while a blatant perjurer walks the streets a free woman.
Last Updated: 21 mins ago
Brian Forrest 31 mins ago
User ID: 1216339
14
There must be an Inquiry into this travesty. As I understand it, several other “journalists”, including BBC employees or subcontractors, published far more informative articles as far as “jigsaw identification” is concerned, with no penalty.
This is a travesty which should backfire on the authorities if there is any justice at all left in Scotland.
Last Updated: 20 mins ago
Mairianna Clyde 31 mins ago
User ID: 2300775
13
This is shocking. In no way did Craig identify anyone. His reportage was based on the coverage tweeted by other journalists as he was excluded from the trial. But in his contempt of court trial, which I was able to listen to by the public telephone link, it was quite clear to me that his pre-trial polemical pieces were what the Crown seemed most exercised by, including his Yes Minister spoof piece published in January. Craig has now removed these articles, so why are they punishing him in this way?
Last Updated: 21 mins ago
Erskine Findlaech 29 mins ago
User ID: 2459531
6
Utterly disgraceful that Craig Murray has been treated in this way.
He’s done more for independence than the vast majority of us.
Well said, Kenny MacAskill.
The SNP leadership will be sniggering away.
Last Updated: 25 mins ago
cal mc 28 mins ago
User ID: 1956738
8
Wonder how much of this was down to his highly vocal support for Julian Assange seems like a stitch up.
Last Updated: 21 mins ago
Don Johnstone 22 mins ago
User ID: 2031875
0
An absolute travesty of justice proving beyond doubt that our legal system has been taken over and is no longer the fair and honest system which we had pride in. I’ll be donating to his legal costs.
RayH . 20 mins ago
User ID: 2093506
0
Craig Murray’s contempt was in enabling the identification of stories published in The Guardian, Scotsman, Herald and BBC that provided clear clues to identity of at least one of the Salmond complainants. Starting with Mr Murray’s blog it was then necessary to read (or listen to) the other publications’ on-line archives (which are all still available) to obtain the pieces of the jigsaw.
Mr Murray’s readership is many times smaller than the aforementioned primary sources.
Why was Can there be any non-partisan motive on the part of the COPFS who brought the contempt charge?
PS @Greg Russell
Didn’t Kenny MacAskill leave the SNP for the Alba Party?
– Those comments are complete and unedited, doesn’t look very supportive of Her Majesty Queen Nic
alasdair galloway says regarding AS:
“What we do know is that the evidence did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that anything that might or might no have happened attained the bar of criminal law. However, that is all. It does not, of and by itself mean that nothing could have happened – just that whatever it might have been (and I am happy to acknowledge, it might have been nothing at all) it had not been shown that it was a criminal offence beyond reasonable doubt.”
——————-
The verdict was NOT GUILTY. The jury was given evidence for and against. They decided he was not guilty, that means beyond reasonable doubt otherwise they would have had the means to say not proven or guilty.
No sleigh-of-words from your part will change that fact.
Appalling. Blatantly so.
Just be the saddest day for democracy and Scotland. with real planning Scotland could become a amazing country Nicola has no plan I won’t be here but I believe she won’t be FM in five years surely the people will wake up . Checked betting on next referendem 1/2 on for later than 2025. She do more harm to independence if there is no plan comes soon. Independence will happen but when?
The day democracy, justice and hope died in Scotland.
I’ve spent the last 35 years of my life devoted to the cause of independence only to see it usurped, bastardised and destroyed by a corrupt, criminal and conspiratorial cabal of cunts facilitated by a complacent, coerced and cowered electorate who are as child like in the capacity to comprehend as they are in the ease to which they have chosen to be deceived.
To many morons content to simply glory seek by belonging to the ‘winning’ side.
Voting SNP has simply become a habit to these idiots just as labour was in the past.
The greatest misconception of the last 10 years was this notion that the Scottish electorate was the most switched on and politically astute of any nation ever…
Bawhawhawhawhawwww!!!
My greatest regret is that for a time i actually believed that pish!
I’m going to take an extended break from all this and devote all my time and energy just to my wife, kids, family and friends.
There’s only so much one man can take and i have reached my limit.
Best of luck… we’re going to need it.
I thought I couldn’t feel any lower and more miserable than I did on Saturday night, but I was wrong.
I didn’t actually believe Craig Murray would be sentenced to prison. I’m genuinely shocked.
Hopefully, by taking this case all the way to the Supreme Court, Craig will draw attention to the complete failure to separate the powers of government and judiciary in Scotland. But what a dreadful personal price he is paying.
I’ve closed down my twitter account, so I can’t see, but has Sturgeon told everyone that a court verdict isn’t always accurate yet?
Absolutely outrageous that Craig was even prosecuted for this. I will be resigning my SNP membership today, having first joined back in 1973 when just a mere student from England (having been recruited by a Mr A Salmond).
I wonder if Independence is realistically an option if it results in giving these people even more power over the legal system.
@Alister Galloway.
The defence witnesses were not challenged by the prosecution.
Therefore the prosecution accepted the testimony of the defence witnesses.
Therefore they believed them, the jury believed them, so you should as well.
On wikileaks I have read secret accounts of the US army fighting in Basra, and found spreasheets of Freemasons in Scotland, with names and addresses – but no public spirited blogger (has YES no competent hackers?) has yet to do a comprehensive document dump of the Salmond Trial – let’s get it all out in the open and fuck the Scottish Courts.
– all the kids use things called VPNs and TOR so they can “shitpost” on the forums, or mockingly insult each other on gaming platforms without getting banned. The geezer who posted it all on twitter was a technically illiterate fool – you can do much better.
The hysterical clutching of handbags and “think of the children!” about naming these women – as if crack-teams of Salmond ninjas would assassinate them – all that might happen is : some people will send them nasty messages on twitter for a bit (while other people will send them messages of support, still calling Salmond a “rap-artist”), then it will die down after a while, the public attention span is short. No one really cares.
Alex Salmond has already done much, taken on himself, and tried to be statesmanlike about it all, but if he is holding onto to some ammunition, he is better off firing it all, like right now. Drop it all on them; write a book, publish it abroad – go for a holiday in Iceland (they like free speech up there); simultaneously sue all the alphabet women under their real names in separate courts across the land. He is getting pilloried anyway – in the public mind he is “a rap artist who got away with it” – a Scottish version of OJ Simpson. When you are attacked personally, it’s kinda personal.
The law is a rancid institution anyway, not setup to protect the public, only the stolen wealth of high end thieves; contempt? – I never had any respect for it to begin with. Uneducated people give its baroque sophistry too much importance; fake gravitas, pompous windbaggery, outrageous fabrications (- love watching Lord Handlebars Of Boyne, aka Sir Donald Findlayson on his game!)
As for Murray – if I was getting 8 months, I would have made it worth my while; names, addresses, photos, personal history, interesting anecdotes (- don’t feel bad, our enemies love a good doxxing) and some straightforward language and explanation like, e.g. “lying b1tch didn’t get the job she was after” and etc.
@PeterBrunskill
I know many people like you who are leaving the SNP after decades. I’m so sorry.
Personally, all my hope is in activity by Now Scotland and AUOB. We have to become the mass movement again.
If we get 3.5% on the streets, we can achieve our aims. But we’re going to be doing that without the SNP leadership.
Just as well, really, as they poison everything they touch.
Really shocked and upset to hear about Craig Murray being sentenced to prison. A person with a young family – where’s the compassion and justice in that, even IF guilty – but when compared to the other MSM publications against whom no action was taken whatsoever – I can only come to one conclusion – total corruption. Utter fucking bastards.
(forgive this repost – now on-topic)
Andrew F,
Anybody with any moral compass would be outraged by Craig Murray’s sentence, needless to say the inhabitants of the WGD are saying he got what he deserved, how low con you sink ffs.
Can*
With Salmond and Murray, Scotland morphing into Skotistan?
“But it must be noted that NONE of the complainers against Mr Salmond were victims of any crime. The jury heard their evidence and the defence evidence – the latter of which went almost entirely unreported except by Craig Murray – and concluded that none of them had in fact been assaulted in any way whatsoever.”
Which is why Ms Dorian has made a recommendation to her boss Nicola Sturgeon that jury trials in cases such as this should be abolished.
We cannot, after all, have mere ordinary people in juries interfering and overturning the due process od state persecution in state-ordered show trials. Oh No!
We have a government of nihilists in charge who are deliberately creating a system they do not believe in so they can destroy it without regret when it is expedient for them to do so.
So Craig Thomson gets 6 months for actually posting their names TWICE on Twitter but Craig Murray gets 8 months for jigsaw identification whilst Garavelli et al walk free? Aye, right!
Even more cognitive dissonance required for decent people to remain SNP supporters.
I am not surprised at all of this despicable outcome, someone has to be the distraction from the colossal fk up by the SNP and by our Scottish legal system that seems to be easily manipulated by the SNP.
AS FOR THESE WOMEN IN QUESTION SHOULDNT THEY BE PROSECUTED FOR FALSE ALLEGATIONS?
Is Alex going to counter sue the SNP for defamation, libel?
Will there be a police investigation on the leak to the newspapers by a member of the SCOTIISH GOVERNMENT.
I hope the supreme court puts DORIAN back in her place, she’s now earned her place up there along with BARAITSER, ARBUTHNOT.
The Scottish legal system needs a good clean out of the corruption and bias which runs rife.
If the supreme court fails then I hope this goes all the way to the Hague by then we will know beyond a reasonable doubt that our legal system ALONG WITH OUR GOVERNMENT absolutely stinks of corruption.
Absolutely outrageous in both verdict and sentence.
No doubt the Scottish Establishment and MSM will be smirking and geeheeing….the absolute shower.
Absolutely shocked at this. Whilst I didn’t think Craig should have been prosecuted at all in the first place. I did hope the court would have gone for a suspended sentence or a fine particularly in light of his health.
Craig’s donation page comes up ” this page does not exist”
Make of that what you will.
@GordonHastie
If the SNP supporters on Twitter are in any way representative of the wider demographic, then the authorities could kick their door in, arrest them on false charges and they’d be telling their cellmate that Nicola must have had a good reason for it and they hope she’ll see fit to let them out before the next election so they can vote for her all over again.
If a government is so closely attached to the legal system then pretty much anything it decides against its people goes as law.
This is how the Hittlers dictate who goes into gas chambers and who gets to go and live free,
Breeks has mentioned a constitution for Scotland.
That is only a good idea IF at the top of that constitution the people remain first and foremost sovereign, that a government is never in league with a bad law hammer that can act as high and mighty overlord, where it can incarcerate it’s people without open public hearings and juries.
Well, this must be a proud day for the Scottish establishment and its acolytes. If you’re old enough to remember how elated and ecstatic we all felt the day the Berlin Wall came down, you’ll know how physically sick I’m feeling now. That last sentence was just a little message from me to all the sixteen year old activists out there (including the ones whose mental age arrested at sixteen) that there is no automatic progress in human history, things don’t always just get better and we can and do go backwards as well as forward.
Really shocked, this is not justice and as has been said looks politically motivated. I hate this country and what is is becoming.
My heart goes out to Craig, I hope he has the strength to cope with this dreadful situation. He should not be having to contemplate a prison sentence.
Welcome to Sturgeon’s brave new Scotland everyone, where those of the “wrong” political persuasion can expect to find themselves spending time at Her Majesty’s (Not Sturgeon, the other one…) pleasure.
I suspect it’ll not be long now before the Novichok gets broken out, after all, what’s good enough for one corrupt leader/government/judiciary is surely good enough for any other.
This country gets worse by the week.
The people behind this decision deserve to be par-boiled, eaten alive screaming, and then wiped off the collective arsehole of the nation.
@Gordon Hastie
We must now be close to the limits of cognitive dissonance. Living dead is the next aberration
You weren’t part of …Hastie, Hastie, Holman, Howie, Hunter… by any chance?
I think it’s time to get out of Scotland….
Horrific.
I might vote Tory in the Airdrie & Shotts by-election on Thursday in protest.
Anyone making any allegation against another should be named. Anonymity should not be allowed. That’s an open door to abuse.
Craig Murray’s Donate page does not exist – I just tried and that is the reply. BUT he gives his bank account details under the “support this website” tab and at the foot of every article so direct on-line donation is possible [and no charges!].
It’s obvious that the Sturgeon gang wanted to get someone jailed as a surrogate for Salmond after they were thwarted in their scheme by the jury in Eck’s trial.
Gregory Beekman @12:37
I don’t see or hear any Tories standing up for Craig.
@ Al Dente
But it is Scottish National Socialism, so that makes it ok in the eyes of many.
Apalling.
Eight months for what amounts to a contempt of court. I’ve known persistent housebreakers get shorter sentences. However, I see the usual secessionist disingenuousness on display here, decrying the Scottish Courts system, throwing terms like “corruption” about willy-hilly, yet curiously, demanding the court verdict following the case against Alex Salmond be respected.
Curious, n’est-ce pas?
What a disgraceful verdict and sentence. Dorrian should be utterly ashamed of herself for her part in this travesty of justice. It will not be forgotten.
Something is rotten in the state of Scotland.
Just as well sentencing was postponed to today, eh folks?
Hate to think that a possible backlash at the ballot might have occurred if it had been last week.
Can’t have any of that nonsense in our Brave New Scotland now, can we? After all, what would the Dear Leader think?
Just found this out! I’m disgusted, utterly disgusted by the corrupt establishment in Scotland!
Only a second son, of a second son, born the seventh day of the seventh month, could have predicted from 2015 an SNP Scottish Government would morph into the british governments colonial administration in Scotland!!
Make No mistake, Craig Murray is a political prisoner In Scotland!
let that sink in!!
The Brit state Must have a huge amount of dirt on the SNP SG!!
There are two “donate” links: for me one worked and the other didn’t
There is little doubt that Murray created an obvious risk of jigsaw identity, but his downfall was his clear relish in playing a game of cat and mouse with the Court and (honestly, it must be accepted) making clear his lack of respect for the basis of the pursuit of him. For that reason his is a most unusual case – he was genuinely contemptuous of the rules hedging him in. I think it good that it will go to appeal and be heard by a fresh panel of Judges who Murray was not so personally attacking, although I don’t know how far he’ll get. More importantly in my view, the Court is not best equipped to deal with what causes my real disquiet behind this, which is the conduct of the Scottish Government and the prosecuting authorities. Unfortunately that was not before the Court for review on Murray’s contempt application, ‘what about him’ is a defence for the Court of public opinion.
We Need to organise protests and support for Craig!!
@alasdair galloway:
11 May, 2021 at 11:27 am
Utter bollocks
The real sadness is that it will take history for the injustice here to be shown and accepted. People will look back and question, with incredulity, how this happened. And those, shiny-arsed journalists who sat back, said nothing or worse, applauded the prosecution, have no realisation just how thin is the ice on which they’re standing!
This is appalling news. For all those who go off like a klaxon at mention of conspiracy, what else can you call this? An entirely unconnected coming together of totally unrelated incidents? All of them just happening to serve the same ends as the governing establishment in Scotland and the UK.
Assange in prison and now Craig Murray sentenced and coincidentally, unable to give crucial evidence in a trial about Illegal surveillance of Assange. Not to mention the obvious sinister chilling effect on reporting and free speech. Sturgeon and Johnson must be laughing happily at such lucky coincidence.
Breastplate@12.08pm I don’t go on that site any more but if they are crowing about CM’s sentence then all I can say is that their blind loyalty has rendered them incapable of normal sensitivity. If ordinary independence supporters have become so hard-hearted I am despondent about any future for Scotland. We have become Belarus.
So let me get this right… Wark and Garavelli get no consequences but Craig gets 8 months??
Scots law savaged by the SG!
It’s pretty obvious from Craig’s comments on twitter that this is less about the jigsaw identification and contempt of court and more about Craig’s defence of Julian Assange. They have used the opportunity of contempt of court to silence him. He has been granted appeal and has 3 weeks but judge would see him in jail before he can testify in Spain re CIA spying on Assange’s legal team.
Logically, if one contributor to the jigsaw is to be held as guilty then ALL contributors should be – the person who lays down the first piece as much as the person who lays down the last. After all, the first piece may be the biggest indicator.
With that in mind, surely Geoff Aberdein is as ‘guilty’ as Craig Murray or anyone else. Aberdein’s evidence naming the attendees at a certain meeting was a clear aid to identifying one of the alphabet women, when taken with other information, yet Lady Dorrian took no action to prevent reporting of it. She didn’t strike it from the record.
By her own logic, shouldn’t Lady Dorrian have been in the dock too?
The SNP activist who named the accusers got six months. Craig Murray who gave no names gets eight months. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/independence-activist-who-named-alex-23564133
John McNab says:
However, I see the usual secessionist disingenuousness on display here, decrying the Scottish Courts system, throwing terms like “corruption” about willy-hilly, yet curiously, demanding the court verdict following the case against Alex Salmond be respected.
You must be posting on the wrong thread. Since when was the court verdict respected. Alex Salmond was aquited, wouldn’t know that if you were relying on the media to inform you. He has been constantly smeared and attacked from all sides before and after the verdict which cleared him.
@ MP: I read Craig Murray’s piece and still don’t know who the accusers are.
His January spoof is clearer no doubt, if you know the personalities, but that was months before the trial and hence before the anonymity order.
So I disagree that Murray created “an obvious risk of jigsaw identification”.
I expect you will want to donate for his defence – his bank account details are on his site at the foot of each article and under the “Support this website” tab.
Assange, Snowden, Craig Murray, Hero’s of the truth!
People too thick to realise what they will lose if the truth is attacked!
Skip – I know this, but the fact remains that a not guilty verdict does not mean of and by itself that nothing at all happened, which one or two others seem to think (eg Graf Midgehunter ).
It can do, which in the cases you refer to, that does seem to be the case, but what about the other 12?
My point is claiming “not guilty” means nothing happened does not stand up without more.
As for Cynical Highlander – thank you for your well-considered reply. Did it take you long?
Haste Ye Back say the signs at the border for visitors leaving Scotland.
Maybe we should have signs with Watch Your Back for visitors arriving.
What prison is Craig sentenced to? can we write to him, protest at it?
any info?
Bank transfer details fom Craig Murrays blog (posting this here in case the blog disappears as well)
Account name: Craig J Murray
Account number 32150962
Sort code 60–40–05
IBAN GB98NWBK60400532150962
BIC NWBKGB2L
Bank address:
Natwest, PO Box 414, 38 Strand, London, WC2H 5JB
A disgusting decision but it does not surprise me. Justice and law is broken in Scotland and the only way it was going to change would have been in sturgeon had been kicked out of power because make no mistake she is behind all of this.
I’d also like to add there are people commenting on here expressing sympathy for Craig while only a few days ago they were campaigning for the SNP. I’d say they should be ashamed of themselves but what’s the point as they are completely without shame or morals. They need to own this, this is their doing. We know who you lot are.
And to finish, I have been critical of Craig in the past only because I wanted him to realise that sturgeon and her cabal are people who you simply cannot work with in any capacity or give any power to, they are dangerous evil people and they will never change.
Beginning to think that Scotland is governed by a cabal every bit as corrupt as in Westminster. This was nothing more than a politically motivated prosecution and as such Craig Murray should be regarded as a political prisoner albeit I pray that for the reasons cited above, that does not come to pass. Hopefully, his appeal is granted, or at least his sentence is reassessed.
MP
The problem is however in how the rules are being selectively applied and applied only to one side.
Sooner or later the legal system must realise that “only following orders” is not a fruitful path to follow.
If the SNP think that the accusers can sit smug because they are protected by the establishment, remember that the truth cannot be silenced!
Nothing concealed that will not be disclosed!
Just had a wee peek at WGD so you don’t have to, unless you fancy a laugh, anyway it’s full of political snake oil which his readership must be stupid to believe. I wonder if DrJim still thinks he’s Nicola Sturgeon. The sites owner maintains SNP 2 was the right thing to do. When people are misinformed by commentators like WGD poor political decision making is the result. To any doctors out there if someone has suffered a stroke resulting in paralysis down the left side-for example–with a consequent loss of ” sensation” would it be possible to feel pain in any of the limbs or joints on the paralysed side? Asking for a load of politically gullible fools who read the man’s site.
Sarah 12:39, i just donated via Craigs page five minutes ago.
I hope the sentence is reduced on appeal. It’s a horror show.
Additionally, the facts about the AS trial have now been swept under the carpet.
Someone needs to write book about it while ensuring they are fully protected legally. I suspect I’m not the only one who would contribute to that legal fund.
I am enraged by this travesty of justice. There’s nothing more I can say because I’m now in tears.
The anonymity order occurred in very specific circumstances but the principle preceded the order surely. I think MP has summed it up better than my earlier longwinded attempt on an earlier thread. I feel very uncomfortable with the fact that Craig has atrial fibrillation and get he’s being faced with confinement to a cell, where he could find himself in a very dangerous situation health-wise.
The concept that people do not accept they are sovereign, is equivalent to saying they are owned by the state, by government, that is slavery. In a new nuance.
To be owned, worked, used, to be a human resource, to be imprisoned for small misdemeanours without open justice, without control or to have control, is slavery,
Which and whom of us are accountable or willing enough to say they are happy to give away their sovereignty to become a willing slave for a government or anyone else.
This is the route we are positioning ourselves for, where there is no justice, where a hate crime bill closes down free speech, where justice is behind closed doors, where kangaroo courts decide whom may die and lose freedom in what resembles justice of the gas chambers,
Who decides that an invented property entity such as a devolved government is sovereign,
The people decide, they decide wether their enslavement is real or a figment of a governments construed and attempted imagination,
There is no legal binding contract between yourself and your goverment to become enslaved, you can only be duped into that position
YOU ARE SOVEREIGN. You were born free from the concept of old fashioned slavery and according to law, since slavery is legally abolished.
Only when you voluntarily give your sovereignty away, do you concede and admit you wish to become a slave,
Can anybody tell me if Scottish law runs beyond the border of Scotland?
I.e. can one hold Dorrian & co. in contempt from outside Scotland? Is there an extradition treaty with England?
This has been a political verdict.
It should be seen as part of the cover-up of a state sponsored hatchet job on a man whose only crime was to want to see his country free.
A sad, sad day for justice within the Judiciary and Prosecution Services in Scotland.
Lady Dorrian has indeed confirmed that justice in Scotland is… [REDACTED]
On the ELEVENTH DAY OF MAY 2021 AD justice in Scotland died at the hands of one of it’s own.
WEEP, WEEP and WEEP AGAIN.
In the Middle East and other countries, those who agitated to free their countries from US influence and exploitation were once called “radical nationalists”. After 2001, they basically started calling them terrorists which made it a lot easier to neutralise them.
As I’m typing this Sturgeon is on the radio trying to pretend she is emotional about being able to hug loved ones. Under Sturgeon, those on more radical wing of the independence movement have basically been criminalised like terrorists.
Craig Murray’s prosecution, the Hate Crime legislation, the threats, etc., etc., they are very highly targeted attacks on the independence movement. There’s a long list of examples. Murray isn’t the first to be sent to one of Sturgeon’s prisons or dragged through her courts, and he won’t be the last.
Sturgeon is basically another tin-pot tyrant whose confidence in attacking political opponents has been bolstered by working in cahoots with the imperial masters. It’s a symbiotic relationship — the British State is standing behind the scenes delighted to see her striking down on the independence movement with an iron fist.
Tin-pot tyrant ("Tractor" - Ed)s in the second and third world are usually rewarded with free armaments and weapons. In our context the arms and weapons aren’t necessary; a few tweaks to the law, a compliant media that knows when to turn a blind eye, and a handful of officials in the judiciary are all that’s needed to beat Scottish people down.
I said last week that Scottish politics will never heal unless there’s a thorough and honest investigation into the Salmond stitch-up and the attempted cover-up that we all witnessed involving the Crown Office and high ranking Government officials. That’s as clear as a bell today.
@Karmanaut
I believe the answer is an information dump on a foreign website wikileaks style. I believe Alex Salmond has more than enough dirt to send a lot of people to prison, his strategy of playing political games in the hope of blackmailing Sturgeon has collapsed spectacularly because he underestimated how much Sturgeon has brainwashed the SNP rank and file into hating him. His only option now is to stop messing about and take Sturgeon down. The time to do it is now and with the vultures circling the alleged thief Murrell the whole lot of them could be taken down.
Craig, take inspiration from Nelson Mandela, Ghandi, William Wallace, and others who have stood against corrupt establishments.
The gravy train will run out of fuel! you have become a hero of the truth. They tried to crush you. stand strong. They fear you!
alasdair galloway
Your assertion there is no smoke without fire simply does not apply. The charges were brought within the framework of the law and were found wanting within the framework of the law. Alex Salmond was not guilty on all counts.
Leave original sin to the theologians.
Politically motivated prosecutions are worthy of the Soviet Union ” its that simple” to quote a little known commentator currently living out his Georgic fantasies among the manure piles and strange hunter types of Ayrshire.
@Stuart McKay
I was wondering if there might be a tendency, even an acknowledged bias, in the judiciary generally towards viewing the old media as working in the public interest, so that social media/blogs which do not have any editing or legal safeguards might suffer by comparison, hence the perceived or actual selectivity you mention.
Thoughts?
(I get that we’re all outraged but I’m hoping others might come on and provide insight rather than protracted if understandable iterations of shock and dismay)
As a Scot living in England and a Unionist, please can I assure you that people down here, at least those interested at all in politics, whether Scots or not,that I’m aware of are as shocked , digusted and angry at this as you are.
My best wishes to Craig and his family and also to the people of my country who can actually appreciate the seriousness of this.
The problem for nicola is if she is not an mi5 plant the security services know all about their plan for dealing with salmond, they have all the messages and will use it. If she is an mi5 plant the messages will come out slowly and she will be seen for what she is.
The women must be bricking it as what ever happens they are going under the bus, the murrels have just not picked the bus
@Hatuey
That’s conspiracy theorist nonsense. All you are doing is trying to make excuses for Nicola Sturgeon. No one is pulling her strings, no one is blackmailing her. Nicola Sturgeon is doing this all on her own, she is an evil narcissistic psychopathic power obsessed liar who will destroy anyone who gets in her way. Stop making excuses for her. She needs to spend a long time in prison.
The very fact that the sentence was delayed until after the vote with no particular logical reason, stinks to high heaven.
Definitely need to expose the corruption. A foreign website or media need to publish this. the truth will always come out.
If I were a perjurer, I’d think with sober fear just what might be revealed!
Any thought on how much it would cost for a statue of Craig, outside the parliament
Stuart MacKay says:
11 May, 2021 at 1:09 pm
MP
The problem is however in how the rules are being selectively applied and applied only to one side.
Feature, not bug.
Authoritarianism without the rule of law, with your life and liberty weighed in accordance with your political status.
Humza would never be prosecuted under his own Hate Bill, despite his openly racist rant in the Scottish Parliament. But if you, a mere pleb, make jokes about tranny jannies on Twitter you’ll see how fast the cops get involved.
There is now a shocking piece in the Guardian – comments disallowed of course.
TonyN says:
11 May, 2021 at 1:15 pm
Can anybody tell me if Scottish law runs beyond the border of Scotland?
I.e. can one hold Dorrian & co. in contempt from outside Scotland? Is there an extradition treaty with England?
I’ll treat this as if it’s not a spoof, but an honest, if naive question.
No extradition treaty is required with England because Scotland is a colony of England, fully owned by it and under its malignant control.
Ms Sturgeon is England’s colonial governor in Scotland – and the courts do England’s bidding.
Johnmcnab. Salmond was cleared by a Jury and did you know Onanism is bad for you?
Pixywine@1.10pm
‘To any doctors out there if someone has suffered a stroke resulting in paralysis down the left side-for example–with a consequent loss of ” sensation” would it be possible to feel pain in any of the limbs or joints on the paralysed side?’
I’m not a doctor, but the answer is firmly,’ Yes’, going by the experience of a family member who also suffered a stroke on that side. Strokes are complicated in their effects since it all depends on the extent of neurological damage and which nerve centres have been affected. The ability to feel pain therefore can still remain while mobility might be impaired.
You can question WGD’s opinions if you must, which as far as I am aware remain the same as before his stroke, but it is poor judgement to make speculative remarks like yours about the misfortune of his illness.
GP
The courts have just jailed Craig Murray at the behest of Nicola Sturgeon and her bent lord advocate and you seek to blame the English. Get a bloody grip of yourself you fool. It’s thanks to fools like you that Nicola Sturgeon thought she could get away with stuff like this. Own it.
@JudgesScotland tweeted a link to the full verdict.
It states “the indictment related to a series of sexual offences over a period of time, two of which were particularly serious.”
Note that it doesn’t say “alleged sexual offences”.
Also note that it says “over a period of time” – so it is not referring to sexual offences in the abstract, but to offenses that have actually occurred.
Given that the court ruled that no sexual offences had taken place at any time, the language used is something of an eye-opener.
Outrageous timing and level of sentence when no MSM journalist held to account for saying more.
The timing as many others have commented shows politically planned intervention.
A sad day for democracy, decency and trying to hold government to account.
“Any thought on how much it would cost for a statue of Craig, outside the parliament”
An excellent idea, perhaps better still….. a foreign media that will publish the truth!
To hold sovereignty is more than just back boiler talk.
To hold sovereignty as a people, means you can hold your government to account when they go of kilter.
To hold sovereignty means you have the choice to exchange your government to an alternative one,
to hold sovereignty as a people you do not have to use a government vote in a government setting. You are independent of government.
You can arrange your own method as sovereign people of voting your government in or out.
That is what the Scotland act states, the people of Scotland can chose their own government, it does not say you have to use government procedures to do this.
PhilM
You’re probably right. I think there is definitely a sense of establishment – that the exiting players know the rules and are assumed to play by them. That the judge mentioned the likely prejudice towards future cases clearly gives the nod to this. We also saw that with the difficulty that Craig had in obtaining journalist credentials.
Blogs have been around almost 30 years and mainstream since almost 20 years. I know judges are supposed to be a bit behind the times but this apparent stance of punishing the reckless upstart is pushing the bounds of credulity a bit.
It’s also getting harder to ignore the creation of the administrative elite, where the core of the political parties and the legal profession have become overseers rather public servants. In my mind that’s the more dangerous position as we can’t be too far from someone playing the sedition card and then we’re off down a path from which there is no return.
It’s commented on before that the independence movement is more of a class struggle than a nationalist one. I think that’s a worthwhile observation as it makes clear the position of the various groups invovled.
Just suppose the presumption of anonymity which is given to the alleged victim of sexual crime, was also given to those accused of these crimes.
In that case, Alex Salmond’s name could not have been used – ever. He would have been given anonymity during the trial, and after the Not Guilty and Not Proven verdicts.
One wonders how the mainstream media in Scotland would have got round that via jigsaw identification.
I would also bet, had Alex been granted anonymity – the papers would have found a way to identify him – and none of them would have been prosecuted.
This whole case stinks. I hope Craig Murray takes it all the way to the Supreme court, and, if he wins there, what will be the fall-out for the Scottish Government and COPFS?
I don’t want an independent Scotland under Sturgeon. I want to see her out of Holyrood and well clear of Scottish politics. The treatment of Craig is thanks to Sturgeon and her friends. I’m thoroughly ashamed that my country has come to this and especially the fact that I was fooled into voting for her party until recently. We must work to remove these corrupt people and clean up Scotland.
Red
Absolutely the rules are always selectively applied but I’d have thought they would have managed to apply them with a bit more intelligence and guile. They can’t even run a banana republic without making a mess of it.
Time was you’d go to the Daily Mail or Telegraph to see what underhand shit the State was up to. Now it’s the Guardian.
A unit of snivelling state-arse-licking coward ‘journalism’ should be called a ‘Severin’.
Today’s effort in the G is surely worth 30.
No link added.
‘Regardless of the public attention which a case may excite, prosecutors must not be influenced in their decision making, whether in relation to the investigation or the prosecution of crime, by extraneous and irrelevant considerations. Like judges, prosecutors must decide without fear or favour, affection or ill-will – objectively and professionally, on the basis of an assessment of the available evidence; and it is one of my constitutional responsibilities to promote the integrity and independence of prosecutorial decision making.’
The Lord Advocate, James Wolffe QC on 5 September 2017.
This is a disgrace. Craig Murray will be Scotland’s first political prisoner.
Scotland is going in completely the wrong direction, and ONE person is driving ALL of it, NICOLA STURGEON.
Their is something evil in all of this. Truly, truly evil.
Scots justice system is now a laughing stock. Jail???
The buck stops with Nicola Sturgeon. This is her doing. She needs to own it. It is what she will be remembered for.
Jan Cowan,
I want an independent Scotland under any leader because whichever leader is in power is transient.
If it has a difficult rebirth, sobeit.
I think it’s the future we should look to and it should not be judged by the problems of the present.
Independence always.
lothianlad
The story here in Portugal is Nicola, Independence and Boris. It’s the same story on all the international media. Unless it fits into an easy to follow narrative and can be told in 15 seconds it’s not going to get any airtime.
Perhaps a newspaper could do a more detailed exposé but it would need to cover a lot of ground. Plus it needs to compete with antics of the right leaning governments in Hungary an Poland. The Scottish Government is just getting started down that path. It will have to get a whole lot worse to garner any attention.
In Dorrian’s summing up of the verdict she referred to the Betties as ‘victims’. That is surely showing her bias. I know nothing about the law but i hope that is one factor in the grounds for appeal.
I think the Scottish Parliament might be in need of an exorcist.
My thoughts on this.
Murray is being used as an example to every blogger , Twitter user or commenter. That if you pursue the truth , and it involves uncovering facts that are unpalatable to the SNP, the SG, The Lord Advocate or the legal system itself. Then they are watching you, and will do all they can to silence you.
We live in a very dangerous country. Who would have thought that Scotland would become the bad guys of the UK. Sturgeon and Murrell have done this to us.
Totalitarianism doesn’t happen overnight. It creeps into society over a number of years. We are at the beginning of the end of our liberties.
JGedd @ 12:56,
I went to the site to see if Paul had written anything in support of Craig but he hasn’t as yet and I’m not sure if he will.
He managed to muster the energy to have a pop at Alba like many others with their 20/20 hindsight so thought he might have something to say about the sentence but may do later.
What this sentence tells me and many others is that this wasn’t justice but retribution and that the legal fraternity do not serve us but are the government’s Praetorian Guard.
I can’t believe how angry I am at this festering judicial debacle, it’s an attack on all of us, and that the ginger duggers are cheerleaders, is no surprise at all.
All this overblown crap about jigsaw I d is so much piss and wind. If most people are like me that is average Joe Schmo, then they’re not going to work out who Mr Salmonds hidden abusers are. I’m deeply concerned about legal anonymity being used to launch political attacks against… Well whoever loses favour with the established power order.
To all politicians reading this can you trust your leaders not to turn the dogs on you? Hahahahaha. Can’t do Eddie Quist smiley faces. Who gets the film reference?
Skip_NC says:
Just don’t expect judicial elections to be a silver bullet.
Indeed. We elect our politicians, and look how well that turns out…
Re Gavarelli Princip
My very serious question on how far Dorrian’s writ runs was to test the assumption that if a person in England uttered a contempt of a Scottish court, how would it be dealt with?
– Could they be arrested on entering Scotland?
– Could any of their assets held in Scotland be distrained? [ e.g. savings held by a Scottish investment company?]
– Could they be personally extradited to Scotland
– Is there a reciprocal arangement with the rUK judiciary?
In sum, is there a legal reason why rUK media is constrained in some way from commenting on this howling injustice that could turn the UK ito the wild west if applied as a precedent to any other criminal issue ( such as theft, murder, etc.)
In all Gavric, a serious question. Could you or any other readers enlighten us further?
It’s highly doubtful if Craig Murray, on appeal, will do jail time.
Those responsible for this farce aren’t sufficiently emboldened to force that one through … not yet.
That apart, the pressure and the unending stress the man is being put under, for absolutely no sane reason, must be every bit as punishing than any jail sentence might be !
Did anyone on here contact the police or COPFS or Garvalli and if so, did they get a response?
‘Totalitarianism doesn’t happen overnight. It creeps into society over a number of years. We are at the beginning of the end of our liberties’. Couldn’t agree more. We were once the land of the Enlightenment, which meant that if it couldn’t be explained why someone needed power over someone else, then they shouldn’t have that power.
Think what Robert Burns would have made of this?
It is for love of all people and for all people whom would love a equal more fair society in Scotland That as a recognised sovereign Scot I wish to chose a new Scottish government, as being stated as my right to do legally so by legislation and acts and declarations of sovereignty. that have gone before.
That’s all you need to say and arrange.
The present government would be gone, you have the legal right to so,
“The people of Scotland have the right to chose whom governs them”
Westminster’s Scotland act.
It does not say HOW you have to achieve this. Or WHEN
But by stating that we have that legal right, it also acknowledges we are sovereign.
JGedd @ 12:56,
I went to the site to see if Paul had written anything in support of Craig but he hasn’t as yet and I’m not sure if he will.
He managed to muster the energy to have a pop at Alex Salmond’s party like many others with their 20/20 hindsight so thought he might have something to say about the sentence but may do later.
What this sentence tells me and many others is that this wasn’t justice but retribution and that the legal fraternity do not serve us but are the government’s Praetorian Guard.
I can’t believe how angry I am at this festering judicial debacle, it’s an attack on all of us, and that the ginger duggers are cheerleaders, is no surprise at all.
FACT : there are NO victims, as the ALLEGED crimes were judged by Scotland’s highest criminal court to NOT have happened. WE either accept such a court judgement, or we do not.
What Nicola Sturgeon and some of her SNP harpies seem to imply, is that the court judgement was wrong. If so, they should produce evidence to support such an assertion, or shut the f**k up.
James Che – You need a Section 30. Not even the Sovereign is sovereign. We all need to comply with the law and the law is clear.
Alasdair Galloway @ 1:02, please bear in mind that almost all of the charges were laid to allow the prosecution to advance arguments under the Moorov Doctrine. Once you accept that, it is obvious that Alex Salmond is innocent and not merely “not guilty.”
@alasdair galloway
Once charged there is a presumption of innocence until the accused is found guilty.
The jury delivers a verdict of not guilty. There is no longer an accused, only an innocent citizen who walks free.
Are you saying otherwise? Are you in contempt?
This is ample proof that democracy is a veneer to keep the masses happy.
The illusion of freedom is far more comforting than the real thing.
Today the inquest into the Ballymurphy massacre reports, fifty fucking years after UK soldiers murdered 11 innocents.
Those same soldiers went on to even worse in Derry on Bloody Sunday.
Guldford Four, Birmingham Six all par for the course if you are Irish and I’ll bet that most of you didn’t bat an eyelid at the time.
This travesty of justice is a sign of things to come under Sturgeon the Betrayers rule. Along with the Lord Advocate and his COPFS and Police Scotland, the dawn of new more authoritarian Scotland is taking shape.
Craig Murray’s fit up and coming prison sentence is just the beginning, Mr Murray is unfortunately a very public casualty of what will become of you in Scotland if you dare pursue or try to reveal any truth that might compromise the Scottish government or individuals with in it especially Sturgeon the betrayers closest confidantes.
This is by no means the end of the persecutions, Alba and Salmond blog supporters are probably on their radar as well, political prisoners in Scotland may well become common place under Sturgeon the Betrayers reign
Dorothy Devine@ 1:28pm
That will be the piece from the moron Carrell. I commented earlier in their daily politics section. They really hate Craig’s guts. Not one voice supportive of him. But one did think the sentence a tad long. What a bunch of arseholes
The SNP under Nicola Sturgeon are connected to the Clinton Foundation. Angus Robertson was rumoured to be ” CIA friendly” Craig Murrays sentence commencement date are building a picture. Maybe I’m better at this ” jigsaw” business than I realised. Sturgeon lacks the acumen or the nerve to lead this conspiracy by herself not many politicians could pull it off with help from a higher power.
Without help
It’s really simple folks , Mr Murray is an individual, all the others work for newspapers or now Sturgeon, despite the dying of the old media, politico’s still fear old media. Those that work for old media are exempt from most actions. Further can I say to all those who voted for the SNP in the last election despite all this nonsense, you sowed the police state , no one will be left when they come for you , for offending a trans or what ever nonsense they come up with next.
Is it not funny that when the Soviet Union fell that most leaders in the west thought installing a police state and filling the statute books with hate crime legislation was the way to go.
Stay safe and strong Mr Murray , Scotland’s first political prisoner in who knows how long.
Captain Yossarian,
Section 30 only required if you defer to English colonial overrule of Scotland. As for your assertion regarding obeying the law, just think not so long ago, it was the law in Germany, to send innocent people, such a jews, homsexuals or the disabled, to concentration camps, or to have them shot. The law is not always right. However, that is neither here nor there since you misunderstand Scotland’s place within the union. Notionally, Scotland and England are equal within the union, via separate, but near identical acts from both the Scottish and English parliaments, agrereing to the articles of union. Like ALL treaties, it can be revoked by either party.
It is England that is abusing its position in this regard, pretending to all, that somehow it is in charge of Scotland.
However, upon agreeing to the treaty between Scotland and England in 1707, Scotland did not, and never has, given up its consitutional rights, or indeed its legal system. Indeed the Scottish claim of right was upheld by oath at the time of her coronation by the current Queen of England, Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg Gotha.
There are only two people who think a section 30 is essential, Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnson. No other country seeking independence, ever asked permission before doing so. It is truly absurd to even suggest it.
Jgedd. Thank you for your answer. I hope your family member recovers fully and I accept your criticism.
It’s corruption pure and simple, nothing else. And of course there’s bugger all that we can do about it other than protest across all available platforms. The Lord Advocate’s position of sitting in cabinet looks ever more suspicious and corrupt. Another decision that Alex got right when he was FM, unlike the present FM, who’s a dodgy as an Irish pound note
Scottish Justice died with the Salmond case.
It got buried deep today with the unwarranted attack
on Craig for being an independence supporter prepared to
reveal the truth.
We now see Nicola and England Civil servants are a law unto themselves
and that equality in law does not apply in Scotland.
Need to put more money in for Craig.
The injustice must be crippling for him.
Cenchos 1:52
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/05/the-ugly-truth-about-the-guardian/
Resolutely opposed to a sovereign Scottish state so sings the same chauvinistic tune as the Mail and the rest of the England based media.
Beware of self-identifying middle class liberals, they’d get you hung, or worse.
Think about this day 1 of the new SNP government. Craig Murray gets a custodial sentence.
Remember day 1 was supposed to be getting the Indy Ref 2 process started.
Sturgeon in her daily briefing was asked by a journalist if she was going to start the process of the Indy Ref 2 bill. In other words the mechanics of the process that need to start right away, even if the vote is 2 or 3 years from now. Sturgeon said no, her focus is on Covid. Not even a soon or next month or the month after. An unequivocal no.
So we are where we were on May the 5th folks. Except now we have another 5 years of Sturgeon doing absolutely zero.
I dearly hope Salmond’s case against the SG and civil service , brings her down. We can’t tolerate much more of this corrupt woman.
A political sentence with absolutely no justification for it. I doubt you read this but just in case “Lady” Dorrian you are as corrupt as the rest of the Scottish Stasi System. Everything else i need to say on this matter has been said in the article above, ie: all the Unionists who *are* guilty and aren’t even being investigated. Scotland is a corrupt shithole under Sturgeon’s Nasty Party. If i could emigrate, i would.
The Scottish justice system has been perverted by Nicola Sturgeon’s insane desire to jail Alex Salmond and anyone who supports him. This is all down to her. What’s this Lady Dorian thinking? She heard all the evidence in the Salmond case, she implemented the lifelong anonymity order on the women who continue to smear Salmond, such as last weeks Daily Record headline. She enforced the lifelong anonymity order after the establishment hack, in my opinion, deliberately tweeted the name of a complainer, as part of the plot. Where is his jail time? I read a BBC article which to me feels like a confict of interest. She is leading calls to reform sexual offenses trials by abolishing the impartial 15 person Juries. This is on the back of pressure by the SNP to remove the Not Proven Verdict. This is politically motivated. Is she going to be the Judge in the civil case against Leslie Evans? I hesitate to call the legal system into disrepute, but come on. Free Craig Murray. He published the defence and gets jail time. Frightening times.
Surely Dorrian’s summing up can be held against her at the appeal.
Talking about ‘sexual assaults’ which were found to be untrue, talking about ‘victims’, when there were no victims.
TBH I think this could make it more likely that the alphabets are named abroad. Craig Murray has many friends.
The Empire Strikes again!
How dare innocent indigenous citizens feel they have the right not to be shot by
Westminster’s Army.
http://news.sky.com/story/ballymurphy-inquest-10-innocent-people-shot-without-justification-coroner-finds-12303411
Writing from the United States I am shocked by this (saddened too).
I, fairly regularly, praise Scotland and its ways to Americans – mainly its Education, Healhcare, and Legal System.
I fear, with this action against Craig Murray, that last, Scotland’s Legal System, will take some defending – I see nothing to praise, as this is like the actions of a fascist state.
Robert Louis – Your posts on this site are consistently very good and so I have no wish to argue. However, your sentence: ‘However, upon agreeing to the treaty between Scotland and England in 1707, Scotland did not, and never has, given up its consitutional rights, or indeed its legal system’.
I think it is about time we did give up our legal system as it is rubbish. It is letting too many people down. Roddy Dunlop defended Craig Murray and he is OK, but too many are crap. Our legal system has worked fine for hundreds of years, but it doesn’t work under instruction from Holyrood.
Quite a few people seem very concerned about what Robert Burns would think.
He died in 1796.
Nobody seems to care about Sir Walter Scott’s feelings. He’s well offended by the way.
Still quantity not quality my sad captain.
Apologies to Mr Murray,
i assumed his absurd tweet on `transphobia in the alt Yes movement` was a trade off for no prison sentence,
this is f@cken fascism,
`Fascism -is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy`
Heil Nikla.
TonyN 2.02pm
DO NOT PUT YOURSELF and CERTINLY NOT THIS SITE AT RISK , by what I’m sayin, I’m not a lawyer and I’m just having a conversation .
Now having said all that..
It’s my understanding a while back one of those D Notices ( can’t print the information things ) from the English Courts didn’t apply to Scotland and the story was published.
If I’m remembering right it was something to do with a footballer .
It made a complete mockery of the Court Order and gave the story more attention.
I don’t know how it works in this instance because it’s not a request to save face but a protection that’s being abused here and the absolute shame of it is that it’s a pretty important protection too.
Nevertheless if I was beyond the reach of UK law I think I’d chance it,mainly because this protection for Women is to precious to be so abused and even giving grounds for even a fraction of an objection to it or subversion of it need nipped in the bud.
Sir Walter Scott dies in 1832. Not a hell of a lot of difference there. Robert Burns was an Enlightenment figure, SWS was not. Do you have a point to make, or not?
This is not justice, this is retribution. The judiciary are the Praetorian Guard.
Will be interesting to see if The National does a proper investigation of this comparing Murray to what the media published.
President Abraham Lincoln:
“I have always found that Mercy bears richer fruits than Strict Justice.
Not in Scotland.
David Hannah,
The legal profession have brought disrepute on themselves.
If the Scottish Government manages to do away with juries in rape trials I wonder how many political careers can be destroyed by a politically motivated accusation? To all politicians reading this, especially you blokes, it could be you getting processed through an ” open and shut case” in a High Court with no jury. You are crazy if you support any attempt to delete juries from the High Court.
@Kenny, 11.34
For an older man who’s not in good health, it’s insanity.
It’s not. The sentence has four functions. It serves as a warning to journalists that there are limits on the subjects which can be reported. It serves as a warning to citizens who question the state’s actions. It prevents Craig Murray taking action in the near future in Julian Assange’s case. It threatens Craig Murray’s life.
Well, it seems I was right in my assessment of todays Scotland which I posted a couple of nights ago and for which I unsurprisingly, got a load of abuse for by the blind, uncritical thinkers, ie, the majority on here.
SNP 1 voters: YOU have enabled this. No use fucking whining on here about how bad it all is, YOU are responsible and you have given the green light for further actions similar to the treatment of Craig Murray and YOU have guaranteed it for at least the next five years.
Fucking idiots.
It’s no secret that I find Craig Murray to be a very arrogant man. I actually warned him about the potential for this kind of outcome due to his blogging but of course, it was ignored. In fact, I recall he replied to me something like, ‘I’ve been doing this a long time and nothing has ever happened to me’. You may want to go and look into his archives for the discussion, it was at the beginning of the Prince Andrew scandal.
However despite my personal opinion of Craig Murray, I do respect what he writes and I do read his site. For myself and the average layman, there was nothing in his writing that would have led me to discover the identity of any of the complainants. This verdict is a travesty and is politically and personality driven. The word justice doesn’t even enter the equation. I sincerely hope that he wins his appeal.
And again for the SNP 1 voters who have enabled this, Mrs. Murrell is pushing for trial without jury and that will materialise within the next five years and every one of you could be on the receiving end of that decision and in fact, part of me hopes that you are.
As for the Rev, my opinion is that he’d better start watching his back now, because they’ll be coming after him shortly. His chance is that he doesn’t live in Scotland and so long as his website isn’t hosted in Scotland, then he doesn’t come under Scots Law. He’d still better be fucking careful though.
Finally, I’ll just remind you all again:
Scotland is a shithole of a country. It has nothing to be proud of now. It’s fucking ruined.
A mythical scene…
“Just after the election should suffice….lovely…thanks”
Prasad said at 1:59 pm:
“In Dorrian’s summing up of the verdict she referred to the Betties as ‘victims’.
That is surely showing her bias. I know nothing about the law but I hope that is one factor in the grounds for appeal.”
Good point and well noted.
Another step towards the totalitarian future. Remember we are living in the “new normal”. It’s not going to back to as it was. All the governments and their advisors have made this clear.
Mist 100 @ 2.58
Are you including Alex Salmond ( who proclaimed that he’s an SNP 1 voter )in that diatribe ?
There were 2 victims. Alex Salmond and the truth. No other victims.
Honestly at this rate I can see them coming for this place the same way. It’ll be abuse of power with a flimsy pretence to act upon and then all kept in the dark as much as possible so no one can question it. Even if everyone here is outraged they can silence the worst and keep it out of the mainstream media quite easily to contain things, as we’ve found.
I’d suggest people look to making their information and discussion networks less vulnerable.
It’s a sad day for Scotland with what has been done to Craig Murray today .
JGedd says:
Assange in prison and now Craig Murray sentenced and coincidentally, unable to give crucial evidence in a trial about Illegal surveillance of Assange. Not to mention the obvious sinister chilling effect on reporting and free speech. Sturgeon and Johnson must be laughing happily at such lucky coincidence.
Navalny, Murray, Assange. If Craig’s appeal fails, the UK will have twice as many political prisoners as Russia. A fact you will never read in a British (including Scottish) newspaper or hear on a British (including Scottish) broadcaster.
I wonder if SNP had a very bad result at the polls and Alba and other small parties/independants had done well the judgement would be different?
What lot of people don’t undestand about what was done to Alex and others is that he already got his punishment for his “crime” (which was not kneeling and becoming a yesman in politics). The punishment is the process he was put through. There’s no undoing the hell he was put through and no one can claim that wouldn’t feel like some terrible punishment having your life turned upside down and almost ruined.
Imagine if you didn’t have the resources and acumen of someone like Alex and you were landed in that position too? You’d be screwed. Probably in prison.
The most important pieces of information on which any attempt at jigsaw identification would hang is the name of the accused. For instance if I was to say somebody , and this is an example only as I have no idea if this was the role of any of the complainers, was a PA and had been assaulted by there boss you would be none the wiser about their identity unless the name of said boss was revealed. So the only conclusion is that that name is also a piece of the puzzle and should also be concealed.
I’m fairly certain that the press know this too and that their only excuse for revealing it is placing public interest above the right to protection of the complainers. The more obvious reason was to trash his reputation regardless of the outcome of the trial.
We all know how corrupt this is. What the brit state and media also will do come the referendum campaign ( if it ever gets off the ground), is expose the SNP leadership in all this in order to further try to discredit the Yes cause!
Do the SNP leadership really think the establishment will save them?
They are digging their own political graves and the YES campaign as well.
The SNP leadership is a cesspit of vile corruption.
This all happened under sturgeons leadership!
This is now genuinely terrifying. We have a government and judiciary clearly working together to destroy political opponents, but the Assange and trial witness stuff above is clearly playing a part in sentencing decisions as well, suggesting this is much bigger than just Scotland. The people involved in the Salmond stitch up have an unbelievable amount of power and now they’ve been given another five year term they will use it. I predict non-jury trail for sex offences will be one of their first acts, followed quickly by some more allegations about Alex, from the same sources. Unless there is some way from beyond Scotland the full story can come out, I can’t see how justice can ever be done here: instead the very worst people in Scotland will simply be in power and abusing it for the next five years.
The only crumb of comfort is, when history is finally written and the grandkids of people going along with this ask “How could you let Scotland’s best chance of independence disappear and Scotland slip into dictatorship instead?” they will have to reflect that, for some reason, they felt it was more important to angrily brand people bigots for saying men can be women and lesbians just because they say they are, and that the man who almost brought independence about had cuddled someone ten years before. That’ll be an interesting one to try and explain.
Against the First Minister and the Crown, he rebelled. They cut him down! Perhaps but the Craig Murray case is about much more than muzzling one journalist/activist. Scotland’s criminal justice system is becoming a scandal around the globe and that is, ultimately, the fault of our disgraceful current First Minister. Read why in this post on Scotland’s new combative political website:
https://jaggy.blog/2021/05/11/scandalising-scottish-criminal-justice/
If the Garavellis, Dickies and the rest did indeed write pieces that similarly enabled jigsaw identification, they should be terrified of a lawyer standing up in Court and saying they act for Alex Salmond, who has an interest in the case, and drawing the attention of the Court to them and their pieces. Jail sentences cannot be met by funds from billionaire newspaper proprietors.
@Scot Finlayson
It’s best to say it’s “authoritarianism” and creeping towards “totalitarianism” too. If you try to claim it’s some particular brand of it, be it communism, fascism , nazism and the various other flavours through time, as some here have done, it tends to fall apart once you make any serious comparisons or examinations. Best not to distract or let supporters of creeping power abuse or authoritarianism distract people from the key issue of that power grab and abuse. The main issue is having dicators and authoritarian figures forcing things on the rest of us and removing freedoms, whatever their ideology or branding (which will change over time and history anyway and new excuses are constantly invented). Each generation has it’s own new problems to face, as as people in the past encountered new problems and horrors.
It’s like the more hysterical feminist refugees that poured in here in recent times that rave about “the patriarchy” in the same manner as neo-nutzis rave about semitic people, even going so far as to claim the invisible “patriarchy”/MRA/some sort of hidden cabal misogynists(?) are to blame for the woke agenda and trans rights and how they’re the unique snowflake victims (always!) of it all. Absolutely hilarious! I’d love to know where the meetings are for these secret groups. Thursday nights before bingo at the town hall? As if in 1812 or 1912 this imagined “patriarchy” when in power was really keen on pushing trans rights and all the other woke stuff we have now. It’s all simply an unfolding of the same woke agenda that started several years ago. The momentum carried it here after it started as inevitably as sun going across the sky. The feminists are angry because they are no longer the cause of the moment and no longer the top of the victim totem pole, even finding themselves now the “new nazis” and hate figures in some media stories as they try to form various TERF groups. Ironic.
Of course you can’t expect any kind of sense or logic from fanatics of any stripe and that’s what all these people are – be they rabid SNP supporters, the unhinged extremist tail end of the feminists or the woke trans lobby types. They are all extremists who put party/cause before people and that’s why people get trampled and ground under and suffer from it when they get near power and everything they do falls apart and leads to more sufering. When government or the people who guide it doesn’t put the people first it becomes evil.
@lothianlad
Your lingering naive belief in the SNP having any genuine interest in challenging the UK state is unfortunate. Our host long identified that this cause was merely secondary at best at this point. It’s simply a symbol or a carrot to dangle and attract voters to keep the SNP gravy train rolling. There will be no need for the UK state or the media to unleash the hounds.
youtube.com/watch?v=zKQfxi8V5FA
It’s ok folks . I think we maybe well ahead of schedule here now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQfxi8V5FA
Tyrants never improve their behaviour, they only get worse over time. We have five more years of this to go. Scotland will be unrecognisable if something isn’t done, and soon.
It’s appalling treatment of a very brave, principled and, as far as I’m concerned, innocent man.
This will have significant implications for the wider independence movement as I, for one, will feel decidedly uncomfortable and, perhaps, in time, downright reluctant to be on the same side as Stewart McDonald, Alyn Smith, John Nicolson, Pete Wishart and plethoric other SNP representatives, not to mention ghastly folk such as Harvie, Greer, Paton, etc. Moreover, I doubt I’ll be alone in that
small donation sent – we live in a banana republic.
It doesn’t matter how enlightened he was,he’s dead. Same as every other dead person.
I don’t know if you’re serving Queen and Country or this site is your only social outlet. But I have to work and pay taxes to enable you to carpet bomb every thread with conceited, patronising nonsense.
You’re not the only one, but you are far and away the worst offender, Cameron Brodie was a model of restraint in comparison.
My point is therefore, get a life or at least a job.
@lothianlad
Sturgeon ran the 2014 referendum campaign for the SNP, and the British Establishment has been circling their wagons around her ever since.
What does that tell you about her and the chances of an IndyRef2 happening, let alone it’s being won by Yes?
The authoritarianism unleashed by government to keep us all «safe» from that deadly plague is being used by governments, heady with their new, counter democratic power over a surprisingly docile population, to deal with the dissident.
The politicisation of the judiciary, the police and probably the army, entities in which support for independence would be regarded as fundamentally «disloyal», is an unpleasant side effect of that authoritarianism.
General brain-picker…
Can anyone remember any commenter here putting up a defence of the TRA ‘argument’?
Cameron Brodie doesn’t count – his support of ‘wokeness’ was based on an ideological interpretation of stuff that the Mhairi Hunters and Cameron Archibalds wouldn’t be able to make head or tail of.
This has been the top Scottish politics blog since (long) before it all became such a hot topic, but their supporters can’t or won’t come here to persuade us of their ‘case’.
We know why that is, but many haven’t yet figured it out.
So it’s worth reminding them, by way of example – the democracy we have in Scotland, thanks to SNP1&2ers, is under the control of people who will only allow ‘debate’ on certain topics when it suits them.
Alex Sneddon says 3:47 pm
‘we live in a banana republic’.
Bananas are straight by comparison.
Indeed it is usually one corrupt leader who is deified by the populace. That leads to the destruction of a countries democracy.
I will not quote the individual examples. We all know who they are throughout history. The methods used by such leaders are to mesmerize the populace , into the belief that what they are voting for is good and righteous.
The truth is suppressed by gaining control of the legal system ,by placing power upon those who can be controlled. Money and position have been used throughout history, as methods to corrupt individuals.
Sturgeon is building an empire for herself. She is building an army of yes men and women. They will do as she orders, or be cast out of the circle, or worse sent to prison.
The tragedy in all of this. Is that we are the minority. The majority are part of the Sturgeon’s masses. Even the ones who didn’t vote SNP. To a greater or lesser degree she is controlling the thought process of 90% of the population.
She now has control of the minds of the media, the mechanics of the judiciary and the future of our nation.
https://archive.is/fl7AT
White roses for Scottish MP’s eh? Fk me eh? The gloves are really off now.
I just assumed the white colour was a mark of their cowardice and capitulation, … but apparently it’s something else.. a poem commemorating back in the day when the SNP had integrity.
Surely it can’t be the symbolic white rose which was the adopted symbol of Scottish Jacobites. You know, those “rebels” who had the courage to stand up for what was right, even if it called upon them to make the supreme sacrifice. There’s surely no connection with the SNP there… not even a resemblance that I can think of.
It’s in rather poor taste on the day when a Scottish man has just become a political prisoner, right here in Scotland’s Capital City, sentenced to eight months imprisonment for doing his job as a journalist when the SNP steadfastly won’t even do what they were elected to do.
@Breeks
Nothing to with White Cockades, but…
The Little White Rose
BY HUGH MACDIARMID
(To John Gawsworth)
The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet—and breaks the heart.
How much of the population outside of this blog and others actually know who Craig Murray is , or why he has been sentenced. I would guess about 10% at best.
This is how corruption is allowed to operate , beneath the radar of the average Joe.
To the average person in Scotland. They will just hear ‘ Blogger jailed…Salmond…blah blah’.
Then move to the next tabloid story.
I read mr Murray’s blog , sometimes it’s a bit high falutin for me but I’m appalled and quite scared with what’s happened today
And I did contribute to his fees which are astounding
Bang on the money Big Jock.
How do we get round it though it is the big Elephant. Blocking the whole process
Utterly disgusting when the British establishment closes ranks. So what’s next cheps?
Court decides that Leslie Evans has no case to answer?
One thing I don’t understand is how come the betties get to remain anonymous when they’ve all been shown to be liars
Very few people know anything about either the Salmond or Murray cases. Not helped by us being in lockdown since the end of the trial (effectively between the end of the trial and the election, with a summer break when nothing was happening. Lockdown started again just as the harassment trial got interesting, and just after Brexit). Very convenient timing for both our “four nations strategy” leaders, especially when you consider how almost deliberately it was ramped over Xmas. No one could share anything on social media due to court orders, or it just being speculation, people couldn’t chat in pubs or meet up. So most people have just bought the media and Sturgeon narrative wholesale. I have no idea how we change this. In the current environment I don’t see how it can be changed. I’m pretty much looking to overseas people now, I think, and God knows whether that will work.
A man who tweeted the names of women who gave evidence against former first minister Alex Salmond at his trial has been jailed for six months.
Clive Thomson carried out a “blatant and deliberate” breach of a contempt of court order banning the identification of the complainers by naming five of them on social media.”
Clive Thomson posts the names of the complainers on twitter and gets 6 months Craig Murray gets 8 months for ‘jigsaw identification’
Robert Louis.
Captain yossarin.
Thanks Robert for supplying more of the details,
Captain yossarian, No we as sovereign people in Scotland do not need a section 30, that is NS hogwash and delay tactics,
As to the treaty of the union, or that the population of Scotland are even bound by it is also hogwash.
I am not about to go into a list of names that you can find yourself in the supposed treaty of the union,
The Scottish elite whose names are on the treaty of the union entered into a contractual agreement and were paid for that contract,
As it states financial reimbursement to the Scottish people, ie, ( ten people or 30 people’s or just a few,) however it does not state reimbursement to the whole population of Scotland as a whole nation. so the contract would be for those whose signatures are on that contractual document called treaty of the union and whom were paid for it.
It is a limited treaty
They and their descendents are beholden to that contract, or any reimbursements due back should their contract end, not the population of Scotland, they have retained their sovereignty from and outside that contract. As the whole population of Scotland were never asked, never consulted and never signed the contract of agreement even with an X it is by law a limited and restricted contract to the named individuals whom signed.
Let iron out The misleading bluster that usually follows logical thinking.
The speil is that the elite group that signed the treaty of the union were acting on Scotland’s behalf as representatives.
This cannot by any logic of law be a correct statement, for the following reasoning.
A) The Scottish population were not informed that there was going to be a treaty beforehand.
B) The Scottish population were not asked to elect their own representatives.
C) The Scottish population did not vote or elect the three states into their positions or into any parliament.
D) As voting was an unknown quality for the population of Scotland in that time era, they were not electives or voted in to represent the Scottish population.
E) these were people whom voted themselves into that position by wealth and religion.
D) thereby you have no contribution from the overall Scottish population to an agreement to a treaty of the union between Scotland and England,
To further justify this argument it can be resolved by, The recorded violent protests and clashes from the population of Scotland against the treaty of the union, when they learned that a deal had been done behind their backs without consultation. The population had not agreed to a treaty.
As There was no written inclusion Or involvement of the population they remain free from the contractual agreement.
The whole Scottish population remains outwith the treaty of the union contract between the Scottish barons and England’s elite in which finances exchanged hands to named persons only,
Again making it a limited contractual agreement rather than a treaty of a union of two countries.
Vote Sturgeon, get East Germany.
Does the ‘Get Salmond’ squad still exist? I’m sure he must still be at the top of the list. There’s probably a nice cosy wee cell waiting for him too.
Someone will crack eventually:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKb0SSSGm-8
Today, with the politically motivated sentencing of Craig Murray, Scotland became a sh*tey, nasty, corrupt wee country.
Courtesy of Nicola Sturgeon, and her craven apparatchiks.
@ Liz g
It wasn’t diatribe. You’re obviously and SNP 1 and you’re already trying to distance yourself from the fact that you’re partly responsible for this and what else is coming over the next five years.
YES. I include Alex Salmond in my statement. When I say SNP 1, I’m not excluding anyone for any reason or because of who they are.
You’re all blind, ignorant clowns as far as I’m concerned.
#FreeCraigMurray doing the rounds even die-hard unionist George Galloway is calling for Murray’s liberation.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/FreeCraigMurray?src=hashtag_click
Independent – I don’t think there is a lot we can do as individuals.
However one of the victims of Sturgeon’s unhinged corruption , just might bring this to a head. Salmond’s case against the SG will have it’s day in court.
That is our hope. When we talk of Jigsaws, all the pieces will lead back to the Murrells.
https://archive.is/sHObg
Ooops didn’t include link in earlier post.
A man who tweeted the names of women who gave evidence against former first minister Alex Salmond at his trial has been jailed for six months.
Clive Thomson carried out a “blatant and deliberate” breach of a contempt of court order banning the identification of the complainers by naming five of them on social media.”
Clive Thomson posts the names of the complainers on twitter and gets 6 months Craig Murray gets 8 months for ‘jigsaw identification’
Breeks at 4pm,
Yip. The white rose, as adopted by the jacobites, and Charles Edward Stuart. The current SNP bunch are no jacobites. They have no fight. They care nothing for Scotland, safely settled into their cosy green seats in old London town. With their 80k salary, plus expenses, plus free flights for them and their fasmilies. Oh, and a free house in London.
Every now and then they stand up in the HoC, and deaclare how unfair it all is, and how ‘Scotland is not going to put up with it’ for the hundredth time. Then they sit down again, the charade complete.
No wonder they aren’t interested in pursuing independence. A bunch of charlatans, every single one, with the exceptions of Angus McNeil and JC. The rest? Just a bunch of seat warmers.
I do find it funny people referencing East Germany or Stalinist USSR or Putin’s Russia. If you live in the UK you’re in a region that’s had Gerrymandering, Diplock Courts, paid perjurers, Internment without trial and shoot to kill. No need to compare with anywhere else. It’s all right here in the good old UK.
Robert Louis says:
11 May, 2021 at 4:48 pm
Today, with the politically motivated sentencing of Craig Murray, Scotland became a sh*tey, nasty, corrupt wee country.
Courtesy of Nicola Sturgeon, and her craven apparatchiks.
Reply
Scotland has been “that” country since about 2017, it’s only today that more people know that it is.
If only we had a few MSPs of this quality.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1359554507475140609
The contempt writ does not run to the House of Commons. Just saying.
Liz g says:
It’s my understanding a while back one of those D Notices ( can’t print the information things ) from the English Courts didn’t apply to Scotland and the story was published.
Reply
It was The Herald that published the story about Ryan Giggs despite an injunction lodged in England
https://archive.is/RY5jb#selection-1043.0-1043.39
Ottomanboi at 350pm,
I think you are correct. Many, many underhanded things have been allowed to go on, under the cover of ‘lockdown’. I am not against lockdown per se, just the abuse of state and government power that seems to have been part of the process.
That ‘sickness’, that corruption, seems to have become part of the Scottish government and the SNP itself. They serve London now, but still put on a ‘show’ of rebellion, for their accolytes within the rSNP.
Thank goodness for Alex Salmond, the ALBA party is the REAL SNP. True to its core principle, that INDEPENDENCE is the number 1 priority. Nicola’s rSNP, is just a shadow of the great party she was gifted by Alex. A sham, a charade, just like Nicola herself. Happy to play along with London rule, happy to play pretendy politics, in their pretendy government.
Ironically, Theresa May’s ‘Now is not the time’ is Nicola’s latest wheeze, and still the deluded faithful defend her. Truly, their are none so blind as those who will not see.
The next indy march needs to be at the first proper SNP conference, so that every bar, coffee shop or hotel in town is filled with REAL independence supporters, sick of the lies and corruption under Sturgeonite rule. We must not let them get away with this.
What I find most repugnant is that his verdict was deliberately delayed so the SNP could have a good run in the election. Had this verdict been released BEFORE the election and I very much doubt they would have got that number of seats and Nicola Sturgeon and the lord Advocate would have had to answer a few questions.
When you have the judiciary tainted with what looks from where I like political bias, the law is no longer perceived by the public as law, but rather the blunt instrument that the state is using to dispose political opponents without giving them a fair trial. The judges are at risk of becoming tools of the state if they are not already.
If I was that judge today I would not be able to lift my head off the ground with the embarrassment. To have my integrity and credibility questioned for the sake of protecting the identity of a number of perjurers seems like a far too high price to pay.
This is a stain in the reputation of Scotland’s judiciary, a stain in Scotland’s law, a stain in justice and a stain in Sturgeon’s government that is allowing this to happen. The name of that judge will be forever associated to this, what looks like a miscarriage of justice. One has to wonder if what they are trying to do is to bring the Scottish justice system down so they can force English law on us.
Being a pioneer in sending a man to prison on some flimsy charges while leaving others that did far more damage untouched and helping perjurers conspiring to send an innocent man to prison to hide under anonymity while they continue to destroy the lives of others is sickening. That ruling is nothing to be proud of.
It is remarkable the lives of how many people are currently considered expendable by the COPFS for the sake of protecting the identity of a handful of vindictive perjurers and to supress evidence that should have seen elements of Nicola Sturgeon’s government, cabinet and the UK civil service in Scotland prosecuted for abuse of power, gross misconduct and gross waste of Taxpayers’ funds.
Robert. The next Indy march. Should pass Bute House. It should be so loud that Nicola’s closet shakes,and Murrell comes out!
This is the kind of Scotland you’d have if the SNP had its way. A unicameral Parliament where the judiciary are as independent as the Lord Advocate.
It is unbelievable that in a country of 5 million souls that we have one individual who is so idolised by her sycophants and apologists that she (1 person) is allowed to destroy and manipulate institutions of state so easily with NO CHALLENGE or EXPOSURE from other state and people representatives
Are these representatives so scared of her power and reach that confrontation and exposure of her corruption and manipulation is beyond contemplation ,or are they complicit in what she is doing against Scotland and her people , are they content to sit idly by and allow this harridan to wreak havoc on Scotland’s institutions and wait for the inevitable weakening of said institutions whilst stealing the family silver and biding their time for their onslaught
Be in NO DOUBT the empire and establishment are EXPERTS in using whatever it takes (persons or situations) to sabotage freedom seekers , they have hundreds of years experience
Excellently written post by the Rev.
Calm, intelligent and insightful.
@ Big Jock “the next march..should be outside Bute House..”
100% agree. We should have 100,000 critical voices yelling at NS. Stop off at Jackson’s Entry as well to let SNP staff know what we think.
Curiously, the blog I posted before thus sentence was passed down – about why Craig is such a brilliant rebel blogger – is proving wildly popular on the World Wide Web:
https://jaggy.blog/2021/05/08/creatively-maladjusted-craig-murray/
Personally, I hope more Scots read my fresh post about how Scotland’s criminal justice system is becoming a global scandal and why Sturgeon needs stopped before she destroys public faith in it completely:
https://jaggy.blog/2021/05/11/scandalising-scottish-criminal-justice/
Probably best to read both of you want a full picture.
Absolutely gutted for Craig Murray. I honestly thought they’d go for a fine. What is happening in Scotland?
Is Lady Dorrian guilty of jigsaw identification as a result of the Spectator case? No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Lady Dorrian suggest the wording of the revised order?
When you take that wording along with the paragraph that was ultimately redacted, it seems to clearly identify someone as an accuser. Basically a two-piece jigsaw.
This is a Black Psycho Op by a rogue element of Intelligence.
Mist001
Your arrogance knows no bounds. You don’t talk for me and never will. I have not the slightest regret voting SNP 1 Alba 2. Understand? So move on.
It’s just more pish and wind from Bloviating Blackford @Robert Louis says at 5:00 pm and @Breeks says at 4:00pm
Since he was found wanting over “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will” I ignore anything he has to say about anything.
AUOB March on Bute House to demand both Free Craig Murray and Immediate Action on Independence as soon as possible IMHO.
Rob , I read your blog. Which was very interesting indeed.
The part that struck a chord with me was the part where you talk of the separation of powers. In other words the independence of the legal system from political interference. You mentioned that Nicola should know this is intrinsically important.
She does understand, and that’s why she has control over the Lord Advocate. She is taking over.
SNP 1? Oh….. sorry. Too late.
You get what you vote for.
Should Craig Murray self-id as a transwoman and serve his sentence in a woman’s prison?
Do ‘Juanita Sisterhood’ & ‘Daniella Daisy Rainbow” have any views on this?
Lady Dorrian said Murray’s actions had struck “at the heart of the fair administration of justice” and created a real risk that complainers would be reluctant to come forward in future cases, particularly high-profile ones. BBC news
I do not understand this statement. Is it because, if the ‘they’ can’t manage to frame someone with invented cases and so many witnesses, then what chance has one person with a real case got?
To me it strengthens the case for juries and makes it clear that ordinary folk will see the truth however much some people may try to hoodwink them into believing alternative stories.
Mr Salmond’s case really strengthened my ‘faith’ in the jury system
I gave up on Justice the day they made you pay Kezia Dugdale.
The courts in this colony are not working for the people, they are working for their maisters and money and position.
I am horrified at this sentence but not surprised. This is a warning to all of us not to stick our heads over the parapet. I don’t know what we can do but we must do something.
Here’s hoping that those who have stitched Craig up have not put the boot in and he is in a suitable category prison for his alleged crime
On a broader level I can’t help but think that all this constant SNP manipulation of the legal system and self serving lies and deceit are been banked by westminster
I.m coming to the conclusion that on the outside chance they are pushed into a referendum westminster will have enough dirt added to the ridiculous thin plan for indie to sway the vote union way.
In fact give it another year and Boris will be ringing Nicola up offering a vote the next week
Helena- Rotten administrations only last as long as the people within them collaborate and condone. Sooner or later they all crumble.
Ironically time is actually our friend. The longer Sturgeon delays the referendum. The bigger drip, drip , drip of the disaffected grows. Eventually a big fish will open it’s gob, and the whole thing will collapse.
Don’t forget. If Salmond wins against one civil servant, he essentially opens the sleuce gates.
We will get there. Trust me.
After we give Craig some money to show our support,
Would there be any possibility of a fund raiser to take
either Garavelli and or Wark to court on the premise that
if Craig broke a trumped up law, they certainly did.
How do the bent judges qualify them to be innocent without
revealing that any prominent independence supporter is to be found guilty.
@ DJ says
Since when have I ever denied that I may come across as arrogant? You’ve never read me saying that I’m not.
The fact of the matter is that if you follow and actually *read* this blog, then you knew damned well what you were voting for. The Rev couldn’t have made his articles any clearer even if he’d had them billboarded around the country.
YOU and the other SNP 1 are complicit and as guilty as hell in forming this future of Scotland.
So don’t fucking have a go at me to assuage your own fucking stupidity. You knew damned well what you were voting for and you are implicitly a part of the system that handed down a jail sentence to Craig Murray. You and the rest are as much a part of that system as Mrs. Murrell and her cabal are.
Face the truth, you stupid, unthinking fool.
The ‘new’ Scotland is beginning to reveal itself and it is not looking pretty. The most worrying aspect of this is that it is only going to get worse.
Mrs Murrell now sees herself as untouchable and backed by the loons in the Greens, to a certain extent she is. There will be no back bench revolt, which happens in the more mature parties, as the new incumbents in the SNP SG look more spineless than the previous lot.
Buckle up your seatbelts-we are in for a bumpy ride unless Salmond has the courage to spill the beans. However, I suspect that the time has passed as no one will listen to him. Nicola and her acolytes, whether in Government, the judiciary, the Civil Service, the Police now have free reign and there is very little that can be done to even attempt to resolve for years. Worrying times.
You are right Steve. If Boris thought Sturgeon was any sort of threat. He would be sending flowers and chocolates after the election.
He knows she is the weakest enemy he could have ever wished for. Tarnished, corrupt, egotistical and feart.
Maureen at 12.58pm and Pixywine at 1.32pm
Are you pair really that dim? I hope neither of you vote with that level of misunderstanding that you exhibit.
.
IT STARTS.
THIS IS VERY GOOD.
EVEN FOR CRAIG…
The Alba Party failed to elect one solitary MSP precisely because of a corrupt media blackout.
I’ve attended many courts and Lady Dorrian will have discharged her lawful duty impeccably and upon the basis of evidence presented before her. No more. No less.
She will not have heard, or at least she will not likely have admitted into evidence the phrase…
“The Scottish government on Tuesday accepted that its investigation into alleged misconduct by former first minister Alex Salmond was unfair and “tainted by apparent bias”.
Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/scottish-government-admits-salmond-investigation-was-tainted-1.3751129
TODAY, even the staunchest of Unionist journalist will have had shivers up their spine at this verdict.
It is unwise and often you skate on very thin legal ice to comment upon a court case when you were NOT IN THAT COURT TO HEAR IT.
I have no doubt the sentence was soundly based upon the verdict and that was based upon the prosecution case.
Every person reading this Wings Over Scotland blog and especially as we have SEEN and HEARD the testimony on OATH of Alex Salmond himself that THE problem lays with the personnel at the head of the the Civil Service, plus the head of the Crown Office and their enablers who were only following orders.
At last, the disinfectant of daylight will be shone upon the BENT and CORRUPT individuals in this whole rancid matter. Those to whom the former First Minister of Scotland Alex Salmond gave evidence, under further threat from Sturgeon and her gerrymandering cronies of more abuse of power and criminal arrest.
Sturgeons TAINTING OF THE SCOTTISH LEGAL INSTITUTIONS WITH POLTICIAL BIAS is about to miss the cleaning cycle in the washing machine and her very dirty illegal linen soon hung on the washing line for all to see.
What does this all mean?
PUBLICITY AND FAIRNESS.
A nationwide discourse of a high-profile case where a ONE journalist has been sentenced to prison and legal action MUST NOW BE TAKEN AGAINST THE LIKES OF KIRSTY WARK ET AL., for evidence has been led that Wark specifically, has done the same as Craig Murray.
The can of worms was opened and now they are all out creeping ad slithering everywhere.
Sturgeon is about to lose control of the narrative.
Police Scotland would be NEGLECTING THEIR DUTY IF THEY FAIL TO APPLY JUSTICE WITHOUT FEAR, FAVOUR, AFFECTION, MALICE OR ILL WILL.
That is the Oath upon which every police office swears upon joining that institution.
Wingers, PLEASE do NOT comment about the WARK CASE. This is a minefield of legal territory.
Craig is reasonably well known, but the Scotland WILL wake up to this BENT Sturgeon Bouroch once WARK is prosecuted to the same standards applied to Craig Murray.
I suspect Craig will be distressed. I HOPE his sentence is reduced to suspended. Even if not, he will do 4 months with good behaviour.
So too will any other journalist that WILL now find themselves at the business-end of a police caution and facing similar jail time.
But Craig is a good and highly principled man. Anyone who declines the honour of the Order of The British Empire AND the Loyal Victorian Order has definitely got principles and integrity.
TODAY IS A HORRIBLE DAY FOR CRAIG, BUT I BELIEVE HISTORY WILL JUDGE HIM KINDLY.
TODAY IS A GOOD DAY FOR JUSTICE. Before you throw pelters at me think on?
ANY AND/OR EVERY JOURNALIST IN SCOTLAND who commented on the Alex Salmond case will now be eligible for the hard knock at their door.
Contemplate that for a moment.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Maybe now the mainstream media will wake up and realise the Sturgeon cabal will have them lined up for prison next?
Today is a turning point. The Crown Office, likely at the fear of that unpleasant inhabitant of Bute House has just made a martyr of a decent man: Craig Murray.
Thinking about the prospect of what will happen to Sturgeon and Murrell plus her cabal of gerrymandering politicians, I now have some hope that justice for ALL has now been unleashed.
In relation to Sturgeon playing with matches and the likes of Stewart McDonald MSP gloating today, I am reminded of the old proverb: The Taoist story of…
An old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbours came to visit. “Such bad luck,” they said sympathetically. “May be,” the farmer replied.
The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. “How wonderful,” the neighbours exclaimed. “May be,” replied the old man.
The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbours again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. “May be,” answered the farmer.
The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son’s leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbours congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. “May be,” said the farmer.
The corrupt, BENT political class in Scotland led by the over-promoted Sturgeon and her corrupt unlawfully (un)elected NEC miscreants who have allegedly obtained property by deception (new MSP salaries) are in for a horrendous two years.
Maybe bad. Maybe good.
Like everyone here , totally sickened by the sentence given to Craig , let’s hope his appeal succeeds .
Nothing to add to the comments above , they say everything necessary .
One thing though …..when the mass of the Scottish public become aware of the real nature of the Sturgeon regime – which they almost certainly will when things like the GRA/HCB start having a direct effect on their lives , and when the UK State chooses to throw petrol on the fire with the ” dope ” they almost certainly have on NS , there is one great potential casuality – Independence .
People that were really unsure/insecure about Indy but might have been swayed to YES by convincing argument – both of the head and heart , will have all their fears confirmed and conclude we’re just better off/safer keeping things as they are : could you blame them ?
It’s hard to imagine anyone could have done , continues to do , as much damage to our aspiration than Nicola Sturgeon
Big Jock says:
11 May, 2021 at 5:22 pm
Robert. The next Indy march. Should pass Bute House. It should be so loud that Nicola’s closet shakes,and Murrell comes out!
Reply
Maybe they’ll “come out” hand in hand.
You’ll need to arrange for the Indy March to coincide with a time when she is at Bute House. Is Boris expected to visit Bute House any time soon?
If so protesters at the front & back of Bute House might be a good idea to prevent she/her & Boris escaping through the back passage.
Gentles Entry Office might only be open 9-5 Mon-Fri.
BBC in same narrow passage. Could perhaps kill two birds!
Paul Hutcheon tweeted this afternoon, in reference to the Murray sentence, that it has shown that the SNP’s candidate vetting procedures sometimes gets it right.
That Hutcheon, a mediocre newspaper journalist, can casually make such a cheap jibe at a man of far greater worth is truly appalling.
Anyone left still thinking the NEW SNP is replete with integrity?
Remember everyone of her cabinet voted with her at every stage of every bill last parliamentary session, including GRA and HCB.
They are enabling her sociopathic narcissism and vindictive vendetta for a comfy chair, not for the future of Scotland.
NONE of them have any integrity, no matter how they appear to the public.
All of them are to blame for this autocratic insanity.
So stop fucking telling us the likes of Sweeney and Forbes are ‘good people’. They’re not. They’re just as politically fucking reptilian as Sturgeon and her ‘what 600,000 pounds’ missing concubine.
They are ALL responsible for the verdict today, and the Scottish political system has become as….diseased as that in WM.
Mist @ 4.49
Oh but it was a diatribe Mist and fine well ye know it.
Ruby @ 5.12
That’s the very one Ruby thank you 🙂
If Craig Murray is guilty of providing one piece of the jigsaw then who provided the other pieces which enabled the judge to solve the puzzle? I think we should be told. Also, shouldn’t the prosecutors themselves be prosecuted for identifying the women as “women” thereby focusing the attention of anyone interested in who they are on just 50% of the population?
Henceforth anyone visiting Scotland should be warned on arrival that they’re entering a police state where they risk arbitrary arrest and imprisonment for activities, views or comments deemed inappropriate by the authorities.
@Al-Stuart 6:25pm
Timing is everything, as always. When will the shit hit the fan concerning Sturgeon’s role in all of this?
A week before the indyref2 vote?
Kapelmeister @6.39pm.
You must remember that Sturgeon is funding what passes for Scottish journalism with Scottish taxpayers hard earned cash. Of course the likes of Hutcheon is going to be onboard with Sturgeons agenda.
This is of course not a new approach to the press by a government, or governmental controlled body. The BBC would often by tens of thousands of copies of the Guardian newspaper. A couple years ago the BBC also began funding local journalism.
Never underestimate the power of the press, having them onside can and does sway minds.
Not a Dicky-Bird! Nothing! Absolutely no mention of this outrageous sentencing on Scotland’s supposedly top “news” programme from the BBC at 6:30 pm tonight. But hey, there’s a couple of new arrivals at Edinburgh’s top animal prison, 2 new giraffes. One could easily get the impression there’s a concerted effort to hush this up? And it’s not even mentioned on the BBC in Scotland’s text service either.
Scotland =failed state
Apologies if someone has posted this already (haven’t had time to scroll through comments).
Remember the Twitter user who posted the actual names of Salmond’s accusers? He got a SIX month sentence handed down by our friendly judge Lady Dorian. Craig posts apiece of satire that would not identify anyone UNLESS you already knew who the women were and gets 8 months.
I am sad and frustrated at the frequent abuse of the justice system that goes on these days I.e. Salmond, Assange, Mark Hirst and now Craig Murray. I only wish folk would get the same outrage afforded to the death of George Floyd sand make a huge fucking noise about this.
Robert. It’s probably true that destroying Sturgeon and exposing the corruption. Might destroy independence for a decade. Then again it might not. Perhaps Salmond could emerge victorious , if the whole truth comes out.
Either way, it’s Hobson’s choice. Because Nicola staying in power will be the absolute end of independence, and the continuance of corruption. The steps to remove her, are absolutely fundamental to all of our freedoms.
The SNP’s new symbol of the White Rose – because on the surface they look clean and smell sweet, but underneath they’re just a load of pricks.
And btw, nor do the BBC main news bulletin in Scotland deem it important that 500 jobs are to go south with the pending closure of the McVities factory in Glasgow in 2022. The company citing ‘too much capacity at other plants’ as their reason.
So that’s another company, Youngs Seafood being another, that have moved jobs south since 2016. This is happening *right now* to help with the impact of Brexit on England and to hell with Scotland. Then the scumbag Unionists have a nerve to say companies will all move south if Scotland takes back its right to self-determination.
Shame we can’t get to question the person responsible for prioritising the “news” stories. I’d love to know why this wasn’t deemed important enough but 2 giraffes arriving at their new Scottish prison is?
@ ALANM
You may recall some folk find piecing jigsaws together difficult, so they just go direct instead.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-burn/
Why hasn’t AS sued Woman H for perjury/slander/defamation? We understand from the FOI request that COPFS hasn’t, as of 2nd March 21, instructed the police to investigate for potential perjury.
The accusation was one of the more serious and the evidence presented refuted it in the strongest way.
Surely this tackles some of the mud sticking to AS and is simpler than trying to explain the Alphabettys possible connections.
As a defendant would Woman H be granted immunity from being named?
Is there anyone reading this that doesn’t believe that GCHQ has a copy of every text and other social media sent by either NS or hubby during the last ten years? Plus all the Police reports re certain Balmorian incidents?
Puppet government.
For all the alphabet women reading this blog, your cloak of anonymity is invisible. The truth about what you did will not be silenced.
Sweet dreams!
BTW does anyone know if the SNP government has made a decision yet on government funding for newspapers in Scotland?
Sorry just found out the SNP government is to invest £3m in advertizing in Scotland’s newspapers.
Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’
The slow steady incremental changes in the Scottish Court process and the structure and process of what passes for a justice system provides a timely reminder of a passage from a short extract (link below) of what is now an historical document from almost a century ago (They thought they were free).
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
“Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.”
Taken together with the public trashing by too many self declared and self identified “progressive” politicians from various political parties – trapped inside the self constructed purity spiral prison – of long established principles and standards of due process (innocent until proven guilty; objective evidence based enquiry; right to a defence) in favour of guilt by accusation based on subjective opinion/feeling; it would seem reasonable to observe that on the present trajectory it would be somewhat risky to discard the possibility of a rerun of the Alex Salmond trial without a jury in the not too distant future.
It remains deeply ironic that the right wing post modernist cultural Zeitgeist from which this phenomenon originates has over the recent weekend been defended by its latest victim, Craig Murray, on his blog.
It is perhaps also worth noting, in the context of the Sccottish HCB and GRA, that those convicted and sentenced for “criminal” acts do not get the vote.
Big Jock @ 6.51 .
Indeed , nothing is ever certain, our old mate Unintended Consequences may yet work in our favour , lead to the unravelling of the Sturgeon ball of confusion and , finally , give vindication to Alex Salmond .
Just saw the tweet by Jennifer, wife of Angus, on CM’s sentencing, in which she announces her approval and ends by suggesting that he will ‘worm his way out of any hard graft on health grounds’. Just as you thought that they couldn’t sink any lower. What a vindictive harridan!
Can someone serving at Her Majesties pleasure be called to give evidence in a trial and would a criminal record and tarnished reputation not be a god send to the defense? With Alex Salmond’s case against Leslie Evans and the leaker to the Daily Record in the pipeline I was wondering if this custodial sentence had anything to do with shutting up potential prosecution witnesses. I watch with interest to see if other Salmond supporters who may be involved in the case will be getting harassed by the law. Just a thought.
JGedd says:
11 May, 2021 at 7:22 pm
” Just saw the tweet by Jennifer, wife of Angus, on CM’s sentencing, in which she announces her approval and ends by suggesting that he will ‘worm his way out of any hard graft on health grounds’. Just as you thought that they couldn’t sink any lower. What a vindictive harridan!”
FFS ! Like SHE would know a thing about actual hard graft , as opposed to ” graft ” , which she knows plenty about .
Does she still think prisoners only ever break rocks , like in the movies ?
The kind of nasty , vindictive , merciless creature that says we should all ” Be Kind “
Dave Hansell
Utter drivel. What on earth are you blathering on about, man.
I always smile when I think of Al Capone.
He was guilty of multiple murders, bribery, corruption, illegal alcohol supplying, blackmail, intimidation, brothel keeping.
The FBI couldn’t make any of it stick. In the end he was done by an accountant for tax evasion.
Sometimes the little things hang you.
Why thank you Mitch. It is always most gratifying to receive recognition from the acknowledged expert in a particular field.
I suspect this shitshow is going to end a bit like Get Carter…
What a backward country Scotland is under the North British regime.
Faith trumps science.
Govt owns judges.
Perjurers protected by court, hailed as victims.
The innocent routinely condemned by govt.
Child abuse govt policy.
It’s not a govt we have, it’s a mafia.
Hi Big Jock at 4:12 pm
You typed,
“How much of the population outside of this blog and others actually know who Craig Murray is , or why he has been sentenced. I would guess about 10% at best.
This is how corruption is allowed to operate , beneath the radar of the average Joe.”
This morning at work (I’m a Jannie in the Uni’s Medical School at Ninewells Hospital) I overheard a conversation taking place, involving two of the autoclave operating ladies, an NHS Domestic (cleaner) and a Professor. My ears pricked up when I heard mention of Craig Murray.
I was able to interject that many of “the average joe” had their opinion on Alex Salmond formed by the biased reporting of the criminal trial by the MSM, where, it has been stated, that all the “journalists” observing the trial, reported all the salacious accusations put forward in the prosecution’s case but folded up their notebooks and left, when the defence started to state their case.
The evidence from defence witnesses was ignored and unreported. I pointed out that the jury heard ALL the evidence, both prosecution and defence, the prosecution did not dispute the defence witnesses in court, and the jury, mostly women, decided that the prosecution evidence did not stand up, so acquitted him on all charges.
Craig Murray has a certain status (and public awareness of) in Dundee, being a former Rector of the University of Dundee.
Orwell wasn’t a Writer. He was a prophet!
I think the over-riding aim with this delay to Craig’s sentencing is undoubtedly to prevent him from travelling to Spain to give evidence in support of Assange on May 20th.
They could have sentenced him weeks ago, his blog could have been ‘taken down’ a few months ago.
To me, the delay between his hearing and the sentencing is deliberate to use up time, under pretext of the election.
Craig was listed as a witness for Assange – the establishment wanted to prevent that.
Have looked at his blogs around the Salmond case and found a shoogly peg and timed his trial and sentencing to prevent him from defending Assange.
When informed by Craig’s QC that he is required to give evidence in Spain on May 20th, Lady Dorian said that his sentence could begin on May 19th.
The establishment is clapping its hands and slapping each other’s backs because they have netted three birds with one stone.
Compromised Assange, got revenge over Salmondgate and trashed the reputation of Scottish Justice as a by-product.
Hugh Kerr has spoken out and he is SNP:
https://dissenter.substack.com/p/craig-murray-8-months-prison-sentence
And John Pilger:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Documark/status/1392044527431651333
Dont tar all journalists with the same brush. Very sympathetic coverage in the Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9565659/Britains-former-ambassador-Uzbekistan-Craig-Murray-sentenced-eight-months-jail.html
Thank you Stu for bringing this to our attention. Have donated for Justice.
Stella’s link to Daily Mail archived.
https://archive.is/Hp08r
ALERT: Muppet BritNat rag promoter at 9:07 pm folks, try avoid aiding & abetting the scum by clicking on their direct links.
__________
Elsewhere: I like to scroll through this sites archives from time to time and in particular the old comments. Here’s one from over 3 years ago i came across tonight. My first thought on reading it: ‘Yip, they’ve been after Craig for quite some time’ because he’s had their (snp) measure for longer than anyone else.
“Abulhaq says: 27 March, 2018 at 12:16 pm
From Craig Murray’s excellent website.
“SNP leadership have become far too adept at speaking with British Establishment voices and thinking with British Establishment minds. At some stage they have to accept that achieving Scottish Independence is in itself a revolutionary act, and that it will never be achieved without real constitutional conflict with the UK, the sort of political conflict which has attended the birth of every independent state. If you are afraid to do something “unconstitutional” under the present repressive system, you have no right to pretend to be a part of the Independence movement.
“On the back of revelations about the Brit establishments close links to the intelligence farming Cambridge Analytica and SCL and its historic track record in the field of disinformation we need a more combative National party. Unless, God forbid, it too has been ‘nobbled’.”
I do not support Scottish independence. I think the clowns suggesting this is a British plot or that Scotland is a colony of England (despite the extensive evidence supporting precisely the opposite) are silly.
I also find myself utterly bewildered by the whole affair and think it reflects terribly on the Scottish court system, and on the specific judge involved.
I do not know who attended the trial of Salmond, let alone who was there even as a witness. The accusers could be any man, woman or shetland pony in Scotland. This whole sordid affair frankly incentivises me to find out and broadcast the lot of them, especially the ones that should be getting prosecuted for perjury.
Scotland’s entire system now reeks of corruption. Independence? Feels more in need of special measures.
@ Stoker at 9:37 pm
“On the back of revelations about the Brit establishments close links to the intelligence farming Cambridge Analytica and SCL and its historic track record in the field of disinformation we need a more combative National party. Unless, God forbid, it too has been ‘nobbled’.”
That might not be far adrift,
Murrell paid Cambridge Analytica, It shows up in I think one of the SNP accounts here, I commented at the time it gave Murrell the opportunity to harvest information on members as it was policy to get member to use Facebook, by extension that allows potential material to say “possibly blackmail members ”
I’m quite sure that would never happen
I have a facebook account that has No friends, and No information, I don’t like the system .
At one point I thought my email had been hacked, That is the very simple version
This would be about 2015/16,just after Sturgeon was anointed
And I do know I’m not that paranoid, consider D.Mackay and the texting for example
The police force and people’s courts,
Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS, was also in charge of the police. This meant no-one investigated the crimes committed by the Nazis
Special ‘People’s Courts’ made sure that opponents of the Nazis charged with treason were found guilty, even if there was little or no evidence.
Judges had to swear an oath of loyalty to the Nazis. This gave the Nazis greater power over the sentencing of political enemies and those deemed to be criminals.
“There is no crueller tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.”
Montesquieu
Absolutely shocked at this. Not even a suspended sentence…
If Al-Stuart is right @ 6.25 – and there is every chance he will be – this could end up being dubbed ‘The Dorrian Disaster’.
The new SNP government (which is the same as the old one, especially leadership-wise) seems to have its fingerprints all over this. I have never been any good at jig-saws – and I would never accuse anyone of promoting jigsaw identification in any shape or form – but just reading the article and some of the comments I can’t help thinking that quite a few things begin to fit in with each other.
‘The Dorrian Disaster’ has a nice ring to it. The succession of disasters that went wrong during the two decades from 1688 or thereabouts onward, all of which compounded to bring about the corrupt and popularly unsupported Union of 1707, needs to be undone, piece by piece.
That means a series of reversals, and a whole lot of unravelling. ‘From Darien to Dorrian, and Beyond’ … The ‘beyond’ being onward, to freedom.
If a series of disasters for Scotland led to the Union, further disasters – for the cause of the Union, this time – could still finally lead to that Union’s ultimate undoing. Let’s hope so …
Is this not a typical case where corrupt power becomes overconfident in victory? And shows its hand, and where it is heading immediately, without subtlety. Thinking it can now do anything, it will recklessly expose itself everywhere. Rumbled, not by us, but by itself. Already making its first big mistake on Day One of its existence!
@ stonefree
It may well be unrelated but seem to recall there was significant SNP expenditure on IT related stuff which some thought odd.
Searches and finds several posts btl on a previous article…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-to-make-money-disappear/#comment-2616897
https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-to-make-money-disappear/#comment-2616919
https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-to-make-money-disappear/#comment-2616965
Alan McHarg says:
11 May, 2021 at 7:38 pm
Can someone serving at Her Majesties pleasure be called to give evidence in a trial and would a criminal record and tarnished reputation not be a god send to the defense?
Convicted prisoners can and are cited to attend court and give evidence in trials. It is quite common.
As to whether ‘tarnished reputation/god send for defense’ – it depends very much on the nature of the trial and the accused/charges.
I have been in a few scottish courts over the years.
I have even talked to a QC after a trial of 3 police officers in ayr.
He represented one of the police officers who where up for assaulting two young lads, they got found not guilty, surprise, surprise as cilla used to say. ( no jury )
The QC I had a chat with never asked a question or cross examined anyone, he was representing one of the police officers, the one that no complaint had made against. work that one out.
Anyway, I said to him, they call that justice, he gave a little laugh and said, that’s the way it is.
Anyone could see that this QC had integrity, he was an older gentleman, and my take on his actions is this.
He would not take an active part in this farce of a trial
so he had decided to ask and say nothing, collect his 3 grand
or whatever it was at the time and put it behind him, after
all, even he knows the system is corrupt, so he shows his
contempt for it in his own way by ignoring and refusing to
take part in its corrupt ways
Bent judge. Disgusting.
So let me get this straight, my ex, who beat me up last year, leading to me having to get a house move for safety as he threatened revenge for me daring to get him charged. He got community service for actual violence and threats, not a custodial. Which put me in more danger than any of the jigsaw ladies post court. And Craig gets 8months custodial for writing some words. Meaning crimes against politicians are rated higher than serious domestic violence against women. Thanks for making that fully evident Mrs Murrell, and please note you can stick any future snp votes up yer Jackson, cos yer nae even getting the steam off my wee. Fucking disgusted doesn’t cover it.
Quite a sad state of affairs really. I am still bemused as to how he gets prosecuted but not anyone else (apart from the person jailed for naming (did he?) some complainers).
Craig does know how the “state” works as he was fitted up by Jack Straw and the neocon stooges of Tony Blair when he was in Tashkent. FWIW he was pretty decent in that role.
One thing that has always puzzled me, the Record story on his “mortgage free Edinburgh house” – how on earth did they get that info? Another leak? As far as I know there’s no way in public domain to know if a property is mortgaged or not.
Funny how they “knew” for him but not for the gazillion gangsters laundering through buy to lets in Edinburgh where you would think there was real news to be unearthed? Maybe someone should tell the Crown Office….????
The articles mentioned (now taken down), are they available elsewhere now (I read at the time and actually they didn’t ring any bells with me except for the ? in the room obviously) ?
Has any legal analysis of this hearing/verdict been made as it all seems bonkers to me?
Bob Costello 11 May, 2021 at 11:06 am
“This is a sad day for Scottish justice which follows on from a sad period connected to the persecution of one man.
The fair World must be shaking its head in wonderment”
Persecution of one man ?
Don’t you ever look outside your own bubble ?
Seems to me he got treated ecatly the same as others who were in Contempt of the existing Court Order in place
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/activist-clive-thomson-jailed-for-outing-salmond-accusers-w6wdmbhnb?fbclid=IwAR2ktt2aRM_dIQnrUFqmX4h6zTu1FrNCPXDokbZlvFVc2LaqjqAOHill4yc
@Littleladylotte 12 May, 2021 at 11:37 am
“So let me get this straight, my ex, who beat me up last year, leading to me having to get a house move for safety as he threatened revenge for me daring to get him charged. He got community service for actual violence and threats, not a custodial. Which put me in more danger than any of the jigsaw ladies post court. And Craig gets 8months custodial for writing some words. Meaning crimes against politicians are rated higher than serious domestic violence against women. Thanks for making that fully evident Mrs Murrell, and please note you can stick any future snp votes up yer Jackson, cos yer nae even getting the steam off my wee. Fucking disgusted doesn’t cover it.”
No its nothing like your Ex, Craig Murray and others all broke a widely well known existing known court order on protecting the people concerned and depite being given warning just continued to do it anyway , if you don’t want to do the time then don’t do the crime especially after warnings given to stop. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/activist-clive-thomson-jailed-for-outing-salmond-accusers-w6wdmbhnb?fbclid=IwAR2ktt2aRM_dIQnrUFqmX4h6zTu1FrNCPXDokbZlvFVc2LaqjqAOHill4yc
@Meg merrilees 11 May, 2021 at 8:42 pm
“I think the over-riding aim with this delay to Craig’s sentencing is undoubtedly to prevent him from travelling to Spain to give evidence in support of Assange on May 20th.
They could have sentenced him weeks ago, his blog could have been ‘taken down’ a few months ago.
To me, the delay between his hearing and the sentencing is deliberate to use up time, under pretext of the election.”
BeJesus more unhinged conspiracy theory 🙂 🙂
@Don
Fuck off.
Two things I don’t understand about this.
Firstly, the man who actually named the women in a tweet got 6 months. Craig, who named no one, gets 8 months. How can that be just?
Secondly, if the concern is “jigsaw-identification” then for ID to be possible there must be other pieces of the jigsaw fitted to Craig’s supposed piece. So, one would presume, the providers of these other pieces of the jigsaw should be charged too. And if they don’t exist then the concept of anyone using what Craig wrote to identify anyone by jigsaw is simply nonsense.
@David McAdam 12 May, 2021 at 8:26 pm
“Two things I don’t understand about this.
Firstly, the man who actually named the women in a tweet got 6 months. Craig, who named no one, gets 8 months. How can that be just?
Secondly, if the concern is “jigsaw-identification” then for ID to be possible there must be other pieces of the jigsaw fitted to Craig’s supposed piece. So, one would presume, the providers of these other pieces of the jigsaw should be charged too. And if they don’t exist then the concept of anyone using what Craig wrote to identify anyone by jigsaw is simply nonsense.”
Well you would have to understand what JigSaw Identification by an individual means first and you clearly don’t so that should be your starting point. Perhaps the Judge had evidence that it was Craigs attempts at Jigsaw ID that helped the others to actually ID the people involved ? They must have got their info from somewhere or from somebody and if they didn’t attend court personally how did they manage to get those identities ? Not by having a crystal ball for sure but reading other people Blogs on the subject may have helped. There is a vast diffence from individuals giving away names accidently and others doing it from inten.
A Scot Nat Political Prisoner in Scotland in the year 2021.
Scotland is clearly a corrupt police state. I will never live or invest or work there as long as Nicola Sturgeon or her minions are in power. Clearly corrupt.