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Wings Over Scotland


Why Scottish Labour will never recover

Posted on October 06, 2016 by

Because the party is still stuffed with braindead cockroaches like this:

gallagher

People of North Ayrshire, you’ve got a real prize there. Well done you.

The next Scottish council elections are in May next year.

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    1. 06 10 16 22:57

      Why Scottish Labour will never recover | speymouth

    344 to “Why Scottish Labour will never recover”

    1. harry mcaye says:

      Is he related to Tom “zany comedy relief” Gallagher?

    2. Betty Boop says:

      Is there anything else that reps of unionist parties can do to incite hatred? Surely they must have reached the bottom of the barrel by now.

    3. Helena Brown says:

      Have had the misfortune of reading this creatures rantings over the years, Labour will never get anywhere as long as he is associated with them.Disgusting man.

    4. David Mills says:

      Well if that the level we have to debate wow
      It clear he talk with zero authority on this subject

    5. Andrew Fernie says:

      Tiresome stereotyping. My mother was born in England. I would happily consider myself a UK citizen if that relationship was remotely equitable and fair for citizens of Scotland, which it undeniably isn’t. If I thought there was a chance of change I would have voted for the No camp in 2014. There isn’t, and my view that that change is impossible while things stay as they are in Westminster has been reinforced every single day since then.

      I don’t hate anybody, least of all on the basis of birth. I just want a fair crack for everyone in this country, irrespective of internal borders. That right is farther away from being realised every single day.

    6. Kevin Evans says:

      Today’s FM question was a weak performance from the Scottish goverment.

      “You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight”

      I am ragging at the racism that is getting allowed in the UK. I am ashamed living here now. I am embarrassed and now scared to talk to our friends from the EU. By all rights they should be angry and questioning the nation of Scotland what are we gonna do.

      Our MP’s and msp need to now challenge and keep on the xenophobic talk and political party’s and not let them just walk off with a few comments.

    7. Proud Cybernat says:

      Nicola looking good at 60!

      Effing eejit.

      You’re right, Stu. Labour will NEVER recover in Scotland with bampots like this running (sorry, ruining) their party.

    8. jimnarlene says:

      I do believe the expression, for such a bit, is fucktard.

    9. jimnarlene says:

      Git not bit, FFS autocorrect pish.

    10. Ruglonian says:

      “The next Scottish council elections are in May next year.”

      Succinctly put Stu! That could be your new catchphrase (I can envisage a wealth of different emphasis already 🙂 )

      In fact we should all start using it – really give it a good trying out before the next year’s even started 😉

    11. Ken500 says:

      UKIP are battering each other. Labour are battling each other. Sometimes battering each other. The Tories are battling the EU. The Tories want to batter each other. Cameron, Gove and Johnston. No speaking. They have all had their chips.

      Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Please to restore sanity.

    12. Jamur says:

      What about the ones that joined because they hate the Labour party?

    13. Dan Huill says:

      Labour in Scotland continues to put its hatred for the SNP and independence movement above all else. Its festering hatred is a severe handicap.

      Decent Labour supporters, of which there are many, must now realize that independence is the only way Labour in Scotland can survive.

    14. Graeme Doig says:

      I’ll tell you what’s important Alex. You have, again, laid bare your own and your party’s idiocy. None of us have any time to have hatred of the English as we’re too busy dealing with delinquents like you.

      You are scraping the bottom of a barrel that disintegrated a long time ago in your hunt for criticism of a govt. whose boots you’re not qualified to tie.

    15. davidb says:

      Please don’t refer to people as cockroaches. It is Daily Mail speak, and dehumanises. I have no issues with anthropomorphism generally, but the specific words cockroach or rat are highly offensive given Europe’s history.

      They are particularly difficult when we have had a weekend hatefest by the Xenophobe And Unionist mob, replete with statements which would not have been out of place 80 years ago.

    16. HandandShrimp says:

      Alex isn’t really interested in politics he just lives to hate the SNP. Even the local Labour people take him with a pinch of salt.

      The big problem that Labour have is that they have limited resources and bitter people like Alex ensure that potential new blood are thoroughly discouraged before they even start.

      The SNP are far more of a party than Labour and that is not the SNP’s fault.

    17. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Graeme Doig –

      Well said there.

      I shouldn’t really comment on this thread as I live in North Ayrshire but it’s true that some remarkable numpties have been declared ‘winners’ via NA constituencies. (Donohoe springs to mind.)

      My get-out card is that, er, well, I wasn’t born here.

      😉

    18. R. Johnstone says:

      What an absolute fud. How he came to hold a position of authority Is anyone’s guess! Thank our lucky stars we have social media / WOS to debunk such chancers. The end is coming soon dig deep Scotland our day is coming very soon

    19. Helpmaboab says:

      Gallagher has long been one of my favourite Labour characters on Twitter.

      He lazily tweets orthodox SLab opinions, the more heated sort of unionist cranks, and an occasional loyalist nut but never, I repeat, NEVER anything from the vestigial social democratic part of his party.

      Taking the charitable view, he might be trying to woo the second-preference votes of Tory voters in next year’s elections.

      Taking the realistic view, he’s an embittered Labourite of the old reactionary, Red Tory, British nationalist strain.

      And remember: He’s been influencing local government in Ayrshire for years now…

    20. muttley79 says:

      @Betty Boop

      Is there anything else that reps of unionist parties can do to incite hatred? Surely they must have reached the bottom of the barrel by now.

      No, there is still a long way for them to plunge in terms of depth, and they almost certainly will. Ruth Davidson, Murdo Fraser, Jackson Carlaw, Dugdale, Findlay and company will give it a go all right. They are only just getting started. Britnats first and Britnats forever.

    21. Auld Rock says:

      I wonder if Kez will remove him from SLAB? I used to read his rubbish years ago when I still bought the Herald and I thought then that he was a disgrace to the family, many of whom fought and WON Irish Independence.

      Auld Rock

    22. stonefree says:

      Alex(two houses, think he’s the one with them both in the same street) Gallagher he’s made a fine living out of NAC 20+ years as a councillor
      Strangely nearly every Labour councillor in NAC has at least 2 houses , one has 5
      Gallagher is a Tory why else would Largs vote for the erse

    23. galamcennalath says:

      People who are driven by hatred assume everyone else must be the same.

      A lot of residual Labour people seem be so angry and hateful. You’d think someone had taken their sweeties off them.

    24. Dawn Gallagher says:

      Embarrassed to share a last name with him!

    25. frogesque says:

      SLab have two choices. Become a completely separate Indy supporting Scottish party or wither and die.

      There is no middle ground.

    26. Davy says:

      The charge of the Labour Yoons.

      Blinkers to the right of me, blinkers to the left of me, blinkers to the front of me.

      Onward charged the brave yoons of labour descent.

      Right up their collective earsehole.

    27. Bob Mack says:

      Hate the English? A man who relies on religious bigotry and prejudice allied with sectarianism to maintain his vote. He should know something about the subject I suppose

    28. Tinto Chiel says:

      I think I can say without fear of contradiction that, had he got as far as Westminster, he would have won the “Low-Flying Jimmie” award on an annual basis, in a very crowded field.

      Personally, I’m delighted that politicians of this calibre will be standing against the SNP next May.

      Do you think he really believes what he says?

      Does he form the words with his mouth as he types his pithy apothegms?

      “What a maroon!”

    29. Brian MacLeod says:

      It still puzzles me why so much hate gets generated simply because we want to do what almost every other country in the world does, govern ourselves.

    30. Jim Mitchell says:

      They never have got around to explaing about those of us members (40 years)who married an English person whilst in the SNP, as she is too now, or those English folk who are members of the party.

    31. Taranaich says:

      “The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”

      Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham, first Member of Parliament to identify as a socialist, and first President of the SNP, speaking at a Stirling rally in 1930.

      Away with you, Tom Gallagher: away with you.

    32. Graeme Doig says:

      Ian

      I have some genes from that part of the world. Think they are some of my best feature 😉

    33. ScottishPsyche says:

      Leanne Woods and Plaid Cymru getting the same treatment as the SNP on QT tonight.

      The repulsive Neil Hamilton getting far more oxygen than he deserves. Audience filled with Kippers as well from the sound of it.

    34. Iain More says:

      I can only say that it isn’t fair to cockroaches who at least make some kind of food for Huntsmen spiders. I don’t think cockroaches resent the fact they weren’t born English and didn’t go to Eton either. I would vote for a cockroach before I would vote for any Yoon bigot.

    35. Mark Fletcher says:

      He is a broken and impotent man. His tweets are extremely childish.

      This business of hating the English is an accusation which has become tiresome. There is not a scrap of evidence to support it.

      His own heart and his own spirit are filled with hatred. His heart and his spirit have been broken. He is full of bitterness.

      Modern Scotland has no place for him and he knows it.

    36. Hamish100 says:

      Gallagher believes he is a Viking. His biggest upset was when the Vikings were defeated in the Battle of Largs.he’s never forgiven the Scots. Has connection with BBC Scotland through daughter in law whose a newsreader.He hates Corbyn and loves Kez.His world is collapsing around him.

    37. Truth says:

      There’s nothing else to say but what a fucking idiot.

      I’m only glad I’ve never voted for these clowns.

      I was born in England. I’ve lived on and off about an eighth of my life there. I’ve always voted SNP.

      The only thing I hate is brain dead vindictive morons like Gallagher.

    38. Naomi says:

      I’m English through and through, a member of the SNP and soon I will be starting work for an SNP MSP. What do you make of that Mr Gallagher?

    39. Col says:

      It’s as much a myth these days as the labour party in Scotland saying that SNP supporters would spit on them.
      They’ve always fought dirty.

    40. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Donohoe’s ‘website’ no longer exists.

      There was nothing in it anyway, apart from this, the best bit, which has been preserved for all time via the Wonder that is Youtube.

      Aye, it’s so good to be able to bring this to you in the modern age, especially if you’ve never seen it before…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWttgp5SaQ

    41. Robert Louis says:

      So right now we have the nastiest, xenophobic, racist, Scotland-hating, out of control, extreme right wing (neo-fascist) Tory party running the UK, and who are Labour in Scotland attacking? The SNP.

      What on earth are Labour thinking? It is like they are stuck in a time warp, and no matter how things change, they are just going to carry on attacking the SNP.

      Meanwhile, the Tories must be literally laughing their socks off at Labour.

      Dearie me.

    42. Iain More says:

      On Council Elections I couldnt help but notice that UKIP gained a seat from BLiE in Hartlepool. Oh Dear!

      I hope Gallagher chokes on that!

      It would seem that in England a big part of Labours ahem support gets off on erm hating foreigners!

    43. Arbroath1320 says:

      So we now have the Nazi party running the broken union that is, allegedly, the U.K.

      We have UKIP knocking nine bells of whatnot out of each other in Strasbourg.

      The Labour party is still going through the motions of in fighting and front bench reshuffles.

      We have a non entity leader of the most autonomous party in Scotland asking ridiculous questions about something the S.G. has NO control over thanks to … erm … the Labour party in Scotland 1997 – 2010.

      The end result is we have this Bampot complaining about the workings of the S.N.P. because the S.N.P. is doing everything it can for the benefit of EVERYONE in Scotland. Just in case his complaining is not loud enough he throws in the old worn boring “the S.N.P. are full of English hating members!”

      If I may I’d like to suggest to Mr. Gallagher that he pays MORE attention to what is happening in the REAL world rather than what is going on in his land of make believe!

    44. Fran says:

      Whit a f@&£y

      That’s all I know how to explain these people who tell me that I am anti English just because I believe in self determination for my country. They know nothing about me or my family.

      These are the same people who will willingly stand back and not attack the real danger to these islands.

      Maybe I should not have put islands in there, it might confuse them!

    45. Velofello says:

      Jings, Alex Gallagher,, he’s made It onto Wings! His years of writing letters to the Herald gave me so many laughs. And here’s my wee ode to Alex from Largs – Largs, termed theTale O’the Bank.

      There is a wee man frae the Tale O’ the Bank
      Who I’d liked to personally thank
      For reminding me, by his letters, time and again
      Why never to vote Labour again

    46. punklin says:

      I am English and a very active member of the SNP.

      So according to Alex Gallagher, I hate myself.

      Sorry to disappoint Alex, but what little hate I have is entirely reserved for wankers like you.

    47. I note from QT and Theresa May’s recent pronouncements that it now seems to be Tory Party policy to accuse Plaid Cymru and the SNP of racism! I know, I know – it’s utterly perverse, utterly slanderous and needs to be stoutly refuted.

    48. Tam Jardine says:

      Man- that Neil Hamilton is a right prick. Thank God most people in Scotland are not stupid enough to buy into his pish.

      Watching Question Time just reminds us how far ahead we are politically compared with the rest of the UK. As I told a guy tonight in the boozer- the UK is over and we are dealing with the paperwork. We have a responsibility to the people of Wales to show them that they need not necessarily spend the next 700 years having a disagreement about immigration.

      Listening to some dickhead tory tonight talk about how much bla bla bla BUT… uncontrolled immigration***** with absolutely zero reflection that any and every restriction on foreign workers coming here will be visited on our own children, our grandchildren, our parents, grandparents and indeed ourselves if we decide to attempt to build a life, a career or a retirement abroad.

      For fuck sake- can you imagine a tory conference where they were going absolutely radge about tax avoidance or tax evasion or climate change or inequality… they are instead doomed to suck on fear and obsess over diversionary nonesense. Shameful.

    49. Arbroath1320 says:

      Sorry if this has been posted already and for being O/T.

      Here is tomorrow’s National front page. It makes for some *cough* interesting reading. 😉

      https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/784130669270142976

    50. Rob Outram says:

      Am I missing something here? Are we now just villyfying anyone who dares to criticise the SNP? If that is the case there’s a very big list of people to get through.

      I’ve only been a member since the referendum so am not able to verify if what he says is true…I doubt very much that it’s true but surely he is entitled to his opinion?

      I am more concerned about his inability to count than his views on the SNP leadership.

    51. Tam Jardine says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      This’ll be the same moron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0WBp9gN21o

    52. Cherry says:

      I think the tactic is to expose the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh national party’s as anti English. It’s how to play down the last few days. It’s not us .. it’s them they all hate the English. This is not going to end well…stirring up hatred is the last thing needed in England right now. It’s like watching a scary movie with the lights off.

    53. heedtracker says:

      Rob Outram says:
      6 October, 2016 at 11:37 pm
      Am I missing something here? Are we now just villyfying anyone who dares to criticise the SNP?

      Criticism or slander though?

    54. Col says:

      Dimbleby saying that of course they talked about some welsh issues on the show because it was from Wales tonight.
      Funny that, I seem to remember him shutting up an SNP member telling them not to discuss Scotland as it was a UK wide show.

    55. Bob Mack says:

      @Rab Outram
      Yes he is entitled to his opinion. However if his opinion is false about you, and you never defend yourself, then it becomes more fact in the eyes of others. If your neighbour made allegations about you, then would you say nothing and just accept their daily tirade ? I think not.
      This is a dirty fight and everything matters.

    56. Tam Jardine says:

      Rob Outram

      He has expressed his opinion Rob however ridiculous it may be. You would do well to understand people have a right to express their own in response.

      Alex G has had a good innings as they say- he has written absolute drivel in the Herald for the last 20 years. He is welcome to hold his opinions on the SNP hating English people but I can’t help think that at the same time Nicola and our party are straining every sinew to save them.

      The absolute worst thing we in Scotland could do on behalf of the people of England would be to get behind the tory party right now. And the second worse thing we could do would be to do nothing and stand by while the tories hardwire fascism into the UK body politic.

      There is one thing that has disgusted me most in the last couple of days and it has been slab politicals falling over themselves to decry the SNP while the tories start their campaign against foreign workers.

    57. Iain More says:

      I think his bile will only get worse when he hears the Scotstoun result.

    58. Petra says:

      It’s no wonder Slab are going right down the stank. They seem to have forgotten the basic concept, that is, that the Tories are supposed to be their enemies.

      …….

      Big laugh on the news tonight. Corbyn in Glasgow spouting about Jimmy Reid. It was then reported that Jimmy ultimately joined the SNP. Wonder if Corbyn considered him to be an ‘English hater’ too?

      ……..

      @ Kevin at 9:59pm …..

      Kevin we’re ALL raging about what’s been going on, more so what’s been happening over the last few days or so. You’re not on your own here.

      Nicola Sturgeon made it clear at FMQ’s that she’s absolutely disgusted with May’s Government. She clearly stated her intention to support Scottish businesses in not complying with the Tories (racist) demands. She also released a joint statement with Green and Welsh leaders totally denouncing the state of affairs.

      She’s not in the same position as you and I, say sitting lin the pub giving it laldy (right spelling?) being able to use terms like racist, fascist, Nazi Tory Government. She can only go so far in relation to the rhetoric that she uses. She’s a World leader, has to behave like one, and will no doubt be working her butt off along with experts preparing to combat May at every turn. Preparing to get us out of this hell hole. Hopefully when that day comes those who are being scapegoated down south, lives being made an absolute misery, will join us here and be made VERY welcome indeed. That’s all she and we can do.

      Kevin don’t be downhearted. Theresa May’s Government is actually doing our job for us and if she keeps going at this rate will raise the numbers in Scotland desperate to get Independence.

    59. Grouse Beater says:

      You may scoff, but next election he could be on the List, and then an MSP refusing to sit down when asked by the Speaker

    60. Anybody got any figures on the swing to SNP in Garscadden?

    61. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Totally amazing really then that those “English for Scottish Indy” people flying their great St. George flag at the summer events somehow managed to escape with their lives, seeing as they were in the midst of that great multitude of hatred, according to Great Seer Gallagher. (Who obviously wisnae there.)

      Just when you think Labour can’t get any more stupid, one of them pops up to prove you wrong. What a joke of a once-proud movement.

    62. stephen says:

      Petra @ 12.00
      Well said 100% agreement.

    63. mike cassidy says:

      Why bother waiting till next May

      when you can get a 20% swing today!

      Technically, yesterday.

      http://archive.is/ebR7H

    64. Robert Graham says:

      Oh feck what happened to the trains and the buses that took top billing today ? , I guess its went straight to fantasy mumbo jumbo without a tea break , The English establishment and media are doing just fine making friends all by themselves without any imagined help from any of us here, personality it’s a side of the SNP I don’t recognise this hatred bit .
      Along with the increase in traffic over the last week This blog has attracted a new detachment of arseholes almost along the same lines of all the other Indy sites just a coincidence aye right just like 2014 they haven’t went away divide and rule !

    65. Dr Jim says:

      Keep repeating the thing and it’ll come true isn’t working so well anymore for the folk who use the tactic
      Big Mooth Rooth’s been found out using it She said the word referendum 42 million times more than anybody else, folk might sometimes be slow but they do catch on eventually

      SNP Baad for the sake of it has worn off as well folk have noticed the Tories of both colours overuse the rhetoric every chance they get

      It’s all mental and verbal abuse designed to create bitterness in the hope of getting the abused on your side against your opponents
      Trouble is with this tactic abusers get turned on sooner or later, and when they do the abused never goes back

      That’s one of the reasons there are 120.000 SNP members and still rising and I’ll bet half of them were abused by their own Labour party till they left

      So keep right on abusing us, it might be horrible but it’s helping us in the long run and we’ve got time, approximately two years and then we’ll see how well the abuse worked

      Glasgow council are demanding 500 stewards be hired for the next Indy rally which is strange when the ratio is supposed to be around 10 to 1 so are they now admitting to at least 5.000 marchers even though there were around 7.000
      I don’t know how they’d know though because they keep switching off the cctv cameras in the square
      We did have a police presence I personally saw two cops heaving a Union flag guy into a van shouting “No Surrender (not the cops) Ahm a Prodisint” I figured he was one of Ruth Davidsons group

      Much amusement was had for at least 5 minutes over that and the cops resumed their conversation and walked over to have a look at the motor cycles

      It’s always very tense when the vile Nats have a rally

    66. K1 says:

      Rob,

      “For 60 years the SNP recruited on hatred of the English They may have changed tactics but and

      this is important. The ones that joined because they hated the English are still there, and

      this is important, they are running the party.”

      He’s not ‘criticising’ the SNP on policy grounds or SG decision’s in relation to someithg of public interest. He’s asserting ‘as fact’ that the core foundation of the SNP’s ethos is based upon a hatred of the English. He’s calling the SNP racists and stating categorically that those in leadership positions in the SNP joined because of their hatred of the English.

      Are you in agreement with this public official expressing this ‘slur’ on social media?

      This is ‘hate speech’?

      Are we not to ‘call him out’ on this?

      What about this:

      ‘Alex Gallagher ?@alexgallagher2 2h2 hours ago
      Twiterstorm tonight. Apparently many Nats don’t undersatand that “independence” would mean that their English realtives would be foreigners.’

      What do you make of this? Is that just another ‘opinion’ that we should let pass because he’s ‘entitled’ to his ‘opinion’.

      Is this who we want in our council’s, people who think like this?

      We are at liberty to post btl on an article, that is relevant in light of recent political developments that have just elevated ‘hate’ to ‘acceptable officially sactioned’ UK government rhetoric/policy.

      This goes beyond ‘opining’ imo. Post truth pish needs to be nipped in the bud. Else it spreads insidiously into everyday speech and action until it becomes ‘normal’.

    67. Valerie says:

      I saw that and went directly to his profile which has numerous other bits of bile.

      I tweeted him to tell him his behaviour as a local councillor is appalling. I said if he has so much time to troll folk on Twitter, there can’t be enough work to do.

      I find it disgusting we pay to be abused in public.

      It’s not to do with criticising SNP, which anyone is entitled to do in a manner befitting his public office. What I’m sick of is seeing this tit for tat with the public, deliberately being provocative, trying to bait folk.

    68. Arbroath1320 says:

      He’s not ‘criticising’ the SNP on policy grounds or SG decision’s in relation to someithg of public interest. He’s asserting ‘as fact’ that the core foundation of the SNP’s ethos is based upon a hatred of the English. He’s calling the SNP racists and stating categorically that those in leadership positions in the SNP joined because of their hatred of the English.

      This just proves the level of ignorance held by individuals like him K1 because as most folks know there are more than a couple of S.N.P. M.S.P.’s and M.P.’s who are NOT Scottish but are English or from even further afield. Funny he seems not to be aware of their existence. 😉

    69. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Dr Jim if the organisers made arrangements for the 500 stewards to turn up at City Chambers to register, that would be the end of that little ploy.

    70. Dr Jim says:

      FM critisised for not repairing Scotrail
      She must lack those engineering skills eh, although she held my hand once and healed my arthritis

      If the Yoons can talk pish

    71. Petra says:

      Tompkins tweeting – Garsgadden – Tories up 7.6%. Labour down 22.3%. SNP takes the seat.

      And from elsewhere turnout 23%? Mhhh! Wonder if that’s correct?

    72. Capella says:

      I see from The National front page posted above by Arbroath 1320, that GCC now require any Indy march to have 500 stewards. If there is a list of volunteer stewards to be drawn up I’d be willing to put my name down. I live a long way from Glasgow but would make the journey to support Indyref2.
      https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/784130669270142976

      Are there any Wings Steward tabards available?

    73. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mike cassidy @ 00:19,

      Thanks for that link. Interestingly, the article says

      […] a repeat of the recent defeat in North Ayrshire for the First Minister’s father Robin Sturgeon was avoided due to a lack of transfers from the Tories to Labour.

      Do we call that the Corbyn Dividend?

    74. K1 says:

      He’s a nasty wee bastard wi a very twisted mind.

      Caveat: Just the lowly opinion of a half educated tenement Scot ye ken. 😉

    75. HandandShrimp says:

      Capella.

      Labour know only have a majority of one on GCC after the result tonight. Their petty rules could be close to an end.

    76. Arbroath1320 says:

      If anyone lives in Garscadden I’d strongly suggest you steer well clear of all pubs, clubs, hotels etc tonight and for next few days. 😉

      https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/784157235035471872

    77. Kevin Evans says:

      Many parallels being thrown around re the Tories and facist politics in Germany in the 30’s but the real mind bender for me in dugdale and Scottish labour now portraying Benito Mussolini in trying to make the trains run on time.

    78. Grouse Beater says:

      “Anybody got any figures on the swing to SNP in Garscadden?

      Talk of 20%.

    79. Petra says:

      @ Arbroath at 11:32pm …. ‘Front page of the National.’

      I can’t believe what I’m seeing. Does that relate to Glasgow City Council? If so let’s hope they lose their one Councillor majority ASAP.

      If this is down to a Labour controlled Council Kezia Dugdale should deal with this; ASAP also. Absolutely disgraceful.

    80. Capella says:

      BTW – what is the “special committee” which approves Orange Order marches and the Scottish Defence League? Does anyone know if the minutes are online?
      Will it survive the council elections in May 2017?
      https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/784130669270142976

    81. Clootie says:

      The positive drive towards Independence requires no negative component.

      That the people who live and work in Scotland should decide its future is enough.
      The certain knowledge that it will be a fairer society is enough.
      The fact that racism, sexual discrimination, religious bigotry etc will be opposed is enough.

      The nations who once formed the “Empire” did not hate the English. They simply wanted to decide their own path. To shape their own destiny.

      The mystery to me is why so many Scots prefer to let the right wing government of another nation run it’s affairs?

      It was the Empire who used the gun boat and the armoured car. It was the Empire who directed fire from .303 rifles into peaceful crowds and who hired mercenaries to put down rebellion. However it was not hatred that motivated the controlling minds of the Empire then either…it was simple greed and the need to dominate.

      That fact that so many Labour Party members define their stance on the basis of SNP hatred level tells you a great deal about them. Based on stated political values the Labour Party should have been and should be now allies against the Tories.

      The empire itself always made use of hate…divide and rule from India to Ireland and now in Scotland itself. Protestant against Catholic / Labour against the SNP / Rich against Poor. Once again Whitehall will turn to the favoured card of division to maintain control.

      Will it be Scots who defeat Scots….again!

    82. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      K1 @ 00:23,

      This business of “English relatives becoming foreigners” was a big BT trope during indyref1, and I think it did have some effect. As if those of us who happen to have Continental and/or North American (and/or wherever) relatives are somehow second-class, and can’t possibly love them nearly as much as English ones.

      Pure blood-and-soil BritNat pish, of course. And they have the nerve to accuse us of hatred. At this juncture above all.

      Yes, people like Gallagher should be called out for their vile inversions of the truth, lest they gain any traction.

    83. Mhari says:

      You should live in port glasgow ! McCabe council leader is way more toxic and labour locally a snake pit of Shite !

    84. Capella says:

      What shall we call the 500 stewards? Actually, I think it would be better to recruit 1,000 to cover holiday and sick leave.
      Perhaps the women’s section should be called stewardesses?

      What about the “Wings Brigade” ?

    85. K1 says:

      Ma brother live’s down in Kent…he’s ain’t foreign he’s ma brother. 😉

    86. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim at 12:21am …. “I don’t know how they’d know though because they keep switching off the CCTV at the square.

      Maybe they’ve changed tactics to throw us? Moved on from using CCTV? There was a large drone hovering over Glasgow Green at the last event. I thought it may have related to Theresa May’s surveillance team in action and we all had a laugh about it. Now wondering if GCC are upping the ante?

      ………..

      O / T

      Just watching the news re. Hurricane Matthew / Florida. My daughter’s due to fly out there on Saturday. I hope it passes over soon. More than anything thinking of those who are having to evacuate / are in danger.

    87. Arbroath1320 says:

      Join the Armed Forces of this great country that rules the waves!

      Get sent to foreign lands.

      In times of political need fight wars to take heat off of government.

      When you retire from armed forces expect, at some unspecified point in time in the future to have your wife DEPORTED!

      Boy!

      Don’t you just love how the Nazi party Generalfeldmarschall of immigration treats our brave servicemen and women … NOT!

      http://archive.is/n4dug

    88. call me dave says:

      Some stuff on the by-election. (hope it’s ok)

      https://twitter.com/PartickFeargal

    89. Holy_Schitt says:

      The Sky News weather girl just called Scotland “North Britain”! Then changed it back to Scotland a minute later!

    90. Grouse Beater says:

      There are some places in England that make me feel as if I’m visiting a different different country from Scotland.

      And I’ve heard many an English friend say their first visit to Scotland brought home to them the reality that Scotland is a very different country from England.

      Incidentally, May “cannot guarantee” that after Brexit Irish won’t be treated as foreigners. Remember, Ireland’s pact with England at independence was it won’t get treated as a foreign nation by Westminster. Agreements are to be ignored by the neo-colonial mind, so why not the Treaty between Scotland and England?

      How long will it take for English to turn on Farage and turf him and his odious cronies out of England as ‘undesirable aliens’? It will happen in time. His legacy is already beginning to tarnish English society and mores. History will despise him.

    91. manandboy says:

      Well done to Councillor Cunningham SNP and to the entire election team!

      O/T on the theme of Brexit.

      The Unionist Government at Westminster have said on more than one occasion that they would not divulge their strategy. They did say however, that EU citizens living in the UK would serve as a bargaining chip in EU negotiations. But as a bargaining chip for what precisely? To allow uk citizens to remain in the EU? Possibly, but equally possibly not.

      The UK might just rather say to the EU – ‘If you do NOT help Scotland win Independence, we will allow all eu foreign citizens in the UK to remain.

      Retaining control over Scotland’s wealth, remains Westminster’s priority. If it could be done tomorrow then Brexit would likely happen before the weekend.

    92. fifi11c says:

      It was myself that had the misfortune of being accused of being a racist in the above twitter conversation , I’d like to address the question that was raised about whether we were being unfair to Mr Gallagher as he was merely expressing an opinion . I don’t know if the person who raised this issue read the whole thread ? These were not opinions they were provocations , I noticed that the person who thought he was entitled to his opinion was a new member of the SNP , I’m not Ive been involved with them my whole life I’m 45 yrs old , so I think I’m entitled to say I have a lot of experience with the party, I know many MSP’s and counsellors personally , so I’d say that I’m qualified enough to say that those “opinions” of his were false , and if he had the right to speak his mind , I’m damn sure I had every right to put him straight

    93. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Nice headline from the Herald: “SNP MP refuses to apologise over “lazy” journalists remark

      http://archive.is/TntKj

      I believe that is known as an admission of guilt! Or is it a tautology?

      Basically speaking the journalists were so lazy about getting a real story to report on, they reported a story about them being lazy.

    94. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyway, North Ayrshire, the thing is, can a party put forward 4 candidates for a ward with 4 seats, or is there a 2 candidate limit? Kind of doubt it, but in 2012 there were only 2 SNP and they were the first 2 to be elected.

      https://north-ayrshire.cmis.uk.com/north-ayrshire/Portals/0/ElectionResults/2012Ward8Results.pdf

      He’s active in the community though and to be honest has been a good councillor. But he’s always writing in to the wee paper sniping away at the SNP, it’s a Great War with the SNP MSP, I think everyone just ignores it.

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      The tweets sounded p*sed by the way! “.. this is important”.

      this is important

    96. Ghillie says:

      Petra @ 1.08am

      We have very dear friends out in Orlando just now. Rain lashing down, worst will be tomorrow. Say the house is made of twigs. Pretty worried for them. Hopefully the storm will pass without more loss of life.

      Which puts the vile bile coming from an elected member of local Government into sharp relief.

      Alex Gallagher is supposed to represent all of the residents and businesses in his area WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

      Clearly Mr Gallagher can’t do that. Is he fit to continue holding his position?

      Shouldn’t Alex Gallagher, at the very least, be admonished by HIS party? I’ll not hold my breath.

    97. gus1940 says:

      The make-up of the panel on this week’s QT from Wales was interesting.

      Given that can we expect the same selection criteria to be applied the next time QT comes from Scotland which would give us a panel along the following lines:-

      Nicola Sturgeon
      Fluffy Mundell
      David Cockburn
      Some Labour WM Star
      Frankie Boyle

      That lot would guarantee an interesting debate provided that Dimblebum alllowed the same amount of mention of Scotland as he allowed of Wales last night.

      Good to see Eck is to be on the panel next week.

    98. Stoker says:

      “The next Scottish council elections are in May next year.”

      David Fagan – North Lanarkshire Labour Councillor suspended – charged in connection with offences relating to images of child abuse. (05.10.16)

      Council boss suspended (20.09.15)
      http://archive.is/uusyY

      North Lanarkshire Council contracts probe (06.10.16)
      http://archive.is/35qKb

      I could play this game all day long. No wonder they have to make up shit about the SNP, with such a dodgy history Slabber (and the mother Party) have got eff all to brag about. Get your own houses in order before attempting to falsely discredit others.

      Any vote for the LibLabCons is a vote endorsing Tory rule.

      Lets cleans our Councils and vote SNP all the way!

      Oh, and by-the-by, i see good auld Worzel Corbyn has appointed Crash Broons former right-hand-man. WHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahaaa

    99. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – Phew. This is meant as a reasonably concise mostly EU resource.

      http://yesindyref2.wordpress.com

      It has a static main page about the EU, mainly to show how voting works all in one place rather than google and scan loads of pages. There’s a whole load of Unionists sneering about Scotland being too wee in the EU, helpless, hapless, no Independence there. Well it won’t be. The EU has democracy, which will surprise many!

      There’s also another couple of fact based stuff via the “EU” and “Random” tabs, and not so often I’ll add to that. All articles have links to the offical sources of the figures – which is quite different for some odd reason to certain Unionist websties 🙂

      I’m off to my pit zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    100. Dorothy Devine says:

      Stoker , appointing Brown has to be better than Blair who is angling to inject himself back into politics – or so the Guardian would have you believe as it merrily promotes every bon mot the ba$%ard utters.

      Better but not much!

      As for that poor wee man Gallagher, I remember the sad wee raincoated figure bewailing the SNP win -and laughing my socks off.

      Could the English for Indy write to him – every one of them – just to reassure him that all is not as he sees it?

    101. frogesque says:

      O/t. See that Nicola Surgeon, I see she’s away forging and consolidating links with Iceland today. Why isn’t she doing her day job and driving the bus to Auchenshuggle so that my Aunt Aggie can use her free bus pass to go and get her morning pint of milk.

      Bloody disgrace so it is!

      Disgusted of Morningside

    102. frogesque says:

      More O/t

      Cliffie to sue BBC and South Yorkshire Police.

      Go Cliff, go!

    103. Stoker says:

      Dorothy,

      He’s appointed Broons former aide, no Broon himsel.
      I suppose it’s six and half-a-dozen, they’re all Tories anyway.
      Broon’s still in hiding and working on his next pack of lies.
      BTW, good to see a post from you, you don’t seem to be posting as much these days.
      😉
      _____

      Helena Brown wrote (9:55pm):
      “Have had the misfortune of reading this creatures rantings over the years, Labour will never get anywhere as long as he is associated with them.Disgusting man.”

      Nah, Helena, Alex Gallagher’s just a sad-sac brainless moron partly responsible for the cerebral collapse behind Slabber. This, on the other hand, is a disgusting little man and i use the word “man” very reluctantly: http://archive.is/8huIc

      Gallagher has nothing to offer the public so he resorts to resurrecting ancient myths whilst conveniently forgetting his Labour Party’s historical and modern affiliations with paedophilia.

    104. My Everlovin’ and I stepped out on a fine evening yesterday to vote in our LA by-election.
      It is a tradition that we cast our vote, and indulge ourselves in a teatime curry at the best Curry House in Scotland, nay the UK. Sorry, I’m no’ tellin’ you which one. It’s busy enough as it is.
      Chris Cunningham is now our new SNP councillor, wresting the seat from Labour in a massive swing which if repeated next May, will complete the political stages on our road to Self Determination.MP, MSP, MEP, LA Councillor.
      Where is Professor John Curtice when you need him?
      Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, Frank McAveety, it tolls for thee, and the hundreds of New Labour hangers on across Scotland.
      All in all, it’s just another brick in the (PFI) wall.
      (Thanks for asking:- popadoms, spicy onions, mango chutney, chilli chicken, Rogan Josh, rice.)
      Best to get as many ‘foreign’ meals I can before the staff are all deported. On the bright side, my Better Three Quarters can share a taxi to the airport holding pen.
      I really will miss her.

    105. Macart says:

      What a weaponsgrade arse trumpet Mr Gallagher is.

      If there is any party that deals in and revels in the spread of mindless, senseless hatred and othering though, that would be Labour.

      May cannot come round quickly enough. So far they’ve relied upon Tories to shore up their by-election ‘victories’. Let’s see how they fair when the Tories themselves are fighting for survival?

    106. BMC875 says:

      Watch the YouTube video ‘Saltcoats Loyal’ THAT is representative of the current North Ayrshire Council. At an IndyRef open meeting in Irvine 2014, I overheard them plotting to ‘get’ Alex Salmond.

    107. heedtracker says:

      I overheard them plotting to ‘get’ Alex Salmond.

      Since 2008, Alex Salmond caused the City of London bank crash because he wrote a letter to a top bankster, is the yoon culture universe we have to live in.

      Financial Times
      6 hrs
      British pound plunges through $1.20 for the first time since May 1985

      Its a toryboy world, red and blue.

    108. Liz g says:

      Jack Collation @ 7.38
      If ye keep eating as much foreign food as ye can,the only place the taxi will be going is to the local weight watchers.

      Yesterday at FMQs the first minister telt Westminster we are no making list’s.

      Our government is backing any company who refuses to make lists.
      I think it is safe tae assume at least half of Scotland isn’t going to cooperate with any list’s.

      Sooo Westminster wouldn’t be able to make it work and no matter how they spin it they will have to give up on the their plan.
      And try to ignore that Scotland’s First Minister has has just stated her intention to implement a wee bit of civil disobedience.

      Really strange the MSM haven’t picked up on that.

      But anyhoo that means you’re better 3/4 and your favourite chefs ain’t going anywhere.
      And to coin a phrase when it comes to preventing it lists.

      It was Holyrood what dun it!!!!

    109. Macart says:

      @Nana

      James Kelly in the ibTimes piece pretty much hits the nail on the head there Nana.

    110. galamcennalath says:

      The way Alex Gallagher expressed abhorrence that relatives might become foreigners clearly shows an attitude that there is something wrong with being foreign!

      Thing is, he doesn’t have the brains to understand what he is saying.

    111. chris kilby says:

      And the less said about Airdrie councillor, David Fagan, the better. Innocent till proven guilty and all that…

      (To be honest, I’m more concerned about the allegations of a Labour Party cover-up ahead of a council by-election in Coatbridge.)

    112. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ian Brotherhood @11.10:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWttgp5SaQ

      Is that a spoof? Reminds me of Gerald Ford and his fabled inability to walk and chew gum at the same time. What a woodentop old BD was! Love those masterful, brooding stares into the middle distance. Bet they scared the pants off the WM tea-ladies.

      Yesindyref2 @6.44: thanks for your EU infopage: a great resource.

    113. heedtracker says:

      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/fire-in-the-hole-77895126/?all&no-ist

      BBC r4 tory freak show doing sterling work reporting UKIPsters beating the living shit out of each in the EU parliament, its nothing at all you see, an altercation, nothing to bother about, its not made the yew kay look even worse around the world, at all.

      Things did happen in their Scotland region yesterday but not worth a mention though, not even SNP bad.

    114. Nana says:

      @Macart Indeed James did a good job with that article.

      Had trouble commenting this morn, first time ever my computer crashed twice trying to upload links and one just will not load.

      This is interesting from Monbiot

      http://www.monbiot.com/2016/10/06/what-we-are/

      and there’s something stirring re the lib dems.

      https://twitter.com/stop1984/status/783980579293388804?lang=en-gb

    115. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      I see the UK & US Govt. funded, Al Nusra Front propagandist unit The White Helmets are in the running for The Nobel Peace Prize.

      http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/2016-nobel-peace-prize-top-contenders-white-helmets-snowden-n659471

      No doubt will justify their founder and former UK Armed Forces & “private security contractor” James Le Mesurier his Knighthood.

      https://wikispooks.com/wiki/James_Le_Mesurier

    116. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T Blood in the exchanges

      https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/sterling-plunges-6-in-two-minutes-amid-chaotic-trading-1.2820540

      “Sterling plunges 6% in two minutes amid chaotic trading
      British currency trading at 89.3p against euro having being quoted above 90p earlier”

      Algorithmic trading after statement from France

      “It looks like it was a algorithm-driven flash crash triggered by a Financial Times article based on French President Hollande’s speech on Brexit,” said Angus Nicholson, a markets analyst in Melbourne at IG Ltd.”

      “With March now set as the deadline for triggering divorce proceedings, tensions are playing out in the currency market. The pound has dropped 16 per cent since the referendum to leave the world’s biggest single market, and is 2016’s worst performer among 31 major currencies tracked by Bloomberg.

      How Now Brown Vow?

    117. Tamson says:

      Given how long he’s been writing letters to the Herald, it’s a safe bet that his Twitter pic is either very old, or that’s a syrup.

      I guess it lives in his other house.

    118. mike cassidy says:

      Not sure if this is OT or not given some of the weird religious things that go on in Gallagher’s part of Scotland –

      But it is about time this disgraceful, democratic deficit was dealt with.

      http://archive.is/KcDu6

    119. Frank Lynch says:

      And this from a party of anti-Semites. And how greatly do have to hate your fellow countrymen to belong to a party which denies them the same independence as the smallest countries in the world, joining forces with a right wing party they supposedly oppose?

    120. Kevin Evans says:

      With pound on a steady downwards pattern and the cost to import items from nations tied to the $ or € due to increase. Taking that Scotland voted remain will the promise in the vow about no financial detrimental effect increase our Block grant?

    121. Legerwood says:

      Robert Kerr

      Just checked and pound at 1.24 against dollar and 1.11 against Euro.

      I use Xe.com

    122. mike cassidy says:

      Re my 9.17

      Here’s the relevant page of the Scottish Secular Society.

      http://archive.is/Y25MY

    123. Legerwood says:

      Here is an article about schools in England being told to collect data on immigrant children.

      Note the date on the article – 23June 2016

      http://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-must-collect-data-on-immigrant-children-from-autumn/

    124. galamcennalath says:

      Great news on the win in Garscadden/Scotstounhill, especially the size of the swing. I hope this is an indication of what will happen in May.

      Perhaps the penny has dropped with Labour supporters that the reason why Scotland is being subjected to Brexit and are being ruled by a neo fascist Tory government was Labour’s stance in IndyRef1.

      It’s all Labour’s fault. If they hadn’t acted as frontmen for the Tories we would now be independent.

      Some people lay the blame with the media. Without Labour’s too dogs there would have been nothing for the media to build an anti Indy case around.

    125. chris kilby says:

      Obvious bawbag is obvious…

      * hic *

    126. Robert Kerr says:

      @Legerwood

      So do I. Permanent tab on my browser. Wish I had kept my Euro account open in Kuwait.

      http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=GBP&view=1M

      More popcorn needed.

    127. Ken500 says:

      The Scottish Oil & Gas continues to struggle with UK gov tax at 40% since Jan 2016. Osbourne increased the tax 11% (£2Billion) in 2011 Budget to 80%. The oil companies stopped future production projects. It was reduced to 60% when the price fallen 75%. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. Scotland would have lower unemployment without the Tories. Now untaxed fracked Gas is being imported from the US with great investmetbexpense. Putting up the balance of payments deficut and the debt. The Tories are destroying the world economy. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

      The SNP Gov is doing a great job against all the odds. In April 2017 the vulnerable will stop being sanctioned. Brexit, England/Wales, will mean Trident is going. The US did not want it here. It was McMillian who secretly put it in Scotland. The Tories are wasting £Billions on Hinkley Point and HS2. A third Heathrow runway will add to the traffic chaos. Dontheynever consider traveller satifaction. Anywhere but Heathrow. A total waste of public money to line the pockets Tory multimillionaires and their with £Billions of plundered public money. Another 4 years of this shambles will mean Scotland will be Independent and still in the EU.

      Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Please.

    128. Andrew McLean says:

      We all know that it is not the SNP that hates people from another country, when a political party has mugs printed that state their desire to control immigrants, then when another political party states their desire to name and shame companies that employ immigrants, and all the Labour Party can think to say is “but the trains don’t run on time sometimes”! What is kezius’ point? Is that a reference to packing immigrants into cattle trucks?

      Anyway the greatest Britain pound has been thought shite again on the world markets, don’t worry we are now back in the sick man of Europe roles, financially and in morality.
      Glad to see the Norwegian wealth fund rose 4% this quarter!

      Can a dog food salesman send us a graph to show how rich since oil the Norwegian people are since oil, as a comparison how we beg from our imperial masters.
      Only in Scotland will you find reprobates like a pet shop boy and his shte graphics and gers!

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      What congenital idiots like Gallagher can never understand is that The Westminster Establishment, Great Britain, Britain and England are not synonymous terms. Neither does he understand the difference between hatred and contempt.

      Gallagher is the archetypal Unionist who has, sponge like, absorbed the Westminster propaganda aimed at all the World outside of the M25, or more specifically beyond the Watford Gap on its way to Scotland.

      He obviously equates England, Britain, Great Britain and The United Kingdom, and the Government of the United Kingdom as all being one and the same thing. To such as Gallagher these terms all mean exactly the same thing.

      In his myopic and blinkered view he equates the disgust and distaste that sane and properly educated people have for the Westminster Establishment with hate of the people of England.

      Obviously if your belief is that the United Kingdom Government is synonymous with England, Britain, Great Britain or even that it is all just one big happy country then you view those who are able to differentiate between the terms as hating the English and England.

    130. DerekM says:

      Wow May cant open her gub without collapsing sterling jeez this yin is a complete rocket i am even thinking old hambasher wasnt so bad after all astonishing.

      Well done to the SNP and the greens for sticking it right to that disgrace Davidson and her band of evel brit nationalist thieves.

      Well well Willie Rennie you still about wee man i thought you had disappeared up Ruth`s backside after she straddled you like a dumb beast,so whats it going to be Willie Scotland or the tories you cant have both you know,want us to stop taking the piss want to be famous wee man hmmmm well you know how to do it or are you really just another tory time to pick a side are you going to choose wrong again as you do know it will mean lots more bus jokes and you getting hooked of the wee dug pictures lol

      Kez give it up girl cant you see defending the tories and your pal Ruth has destroyed your party and will continue to destroy your party as we have 2017 plan still to implement the clock is ticking on both it and article 50 and you bang on about trains even wee Ross a noobie showed you up,the biggest constitutional crisis in living memory and she talks about fecking trains.

      You know i cant help thinking both these parties are ripe for a political takeover from inside the membership some young politician with ambition and independence in mind for Scotland.

    131. Tinto Chiel says:

      Robert Kerr @9.11:

      “How Now Brown Vow”.

      😀

    132. Andrew McLean says:

      I apologise for the grammar, using phone and it’s difficult, I had to rant as our glorious BBC propaganda machine rather than talking about the French PM stating he is going to make UKOK suffer, regardless of anything, when the market crashed, worsening to a 40 year low the pound tanking against other currencies, we get
      Do children make a noise on planes, a airline that practically no one will ever fly on has child friendly service? Maybe!
      Oh and promoting in fighting in labour again, just in case you missed the fact he has been elected again on a bigger major.
      the only person the BBC have loved is Jimmy Savell

    133. Andrew McLean says:

      Criss Kilby

      No offence mate, but that’s not how it works anymore. Or have you not read a Unsubstantiated report in or national newspaper? SNP mp question by police, when no such thing happened, please read the papers! Innocent until proven guilty is no more in this bastardised Union! Ok

    134. heraldnomore says:

      Meanwhile, it’s a One Party State.

      And guess who’s coming to save us all…

    135. Proud Cybernat says:

      May we make May a mayday for May.

    136. One_Scot says:

      Now that the BBC is legally bound to protect the union, it’s probably fair to say that they won’t give the SNP Annual Conference next week much coverage.

      In fact, they probably wont give it any coverage at all, given it may be one of the most important ones ever in the history of the so called union.

    137. galamcennalath says:

      Pounds troubles are because of Hollande’s words.

      “There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price,” Hollande announces.

      Meanwhile in cloud cuckoo Westminster land the Tories expect to keep the good bits and dump the bad bits. Well, looks like they will be left with the bad bits and denied the good bits!

      While the EU will obviously put their own interests first, they may be willing to take some damage to ensure longer term benefits.

      Not sure if anyone in the EU is thinking too deeply about Scotland’s situation, however if the EU were to play a role in ensuring the actual dissolution of the UK that would be inflicting one Hell of a price!

      They could ensure Scotland is allowed to make a fair and unhindered decision then smooth our way as continuing member. They could offer Northern Ireland reunification terms within the EU which would be difficult to turn down.

      The EU has it in its power to destroy the UK once and for all!

    138. Roger Hyam says:

      But I’m English (born in Bristol but 20+ years in Scotland) and I hate the English – because I’m English. It is a national trait. I tick Scottish on surveys now cause I’d rather not be English. Possibly the only people who hate themselves more than the English are the Scots – which is why we haven’t got independence yet. We are more vocal about hating ourselves. The English suppress it and take it out on foreigners.

      What we need are some nice Polish shrinks to come over here and sort us all out so we love ourselves enough to vote for independence within the EU and can all be European – which would be much nicer.

    139. Legerwood says:

      Robert Kerr @ 9.44

      According to article in Guardian the pound tanking overnight was due to ‘fat fingers’ of someone in Asia. The trade has now been cancelled.

      Aye right.

      Hope the popcorn is nit priced in dollars.

    140. Famous15 says:

      “HOW NOW BROWN VOW?”

      A definite steal!

    141. heedtracker says:

      Dr NO! says Labour recovering nicely

      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      Britain Elects ?@britainelects 11h11 hours ago
      St Ann’s (Haringey) result:
      LAB: 63.6% (+12.3)
      GRN: 17.5% (-3.8)
      LDEM: 10.2% (+3.4)
      CON: 5.7% (-1.3)
      UKIP: 3.0% (-2.9)
      [Corrected]

      and Dr NO! says read this, Daily Express/some other ligger says SNP fanning rascism to be nice. UKOK hackdon is always interesting to watch in action.
      http://archive.is/fi4Yk

    142. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Galamacennalath A lot of people think that the EU would intervene in Scotland’s favour , no chance, they cant even send election monitors without the permission of Westminster. Until Scotland is Independent the EU will be playing the diplomatic Mooth Music,they wont get involved in internal UK politics .

    143. heedtracker says:

      Dr NO! says read this. Cockers is back on the scene like a sex machine. Apolo ogees to alert readers, if Cockers hasn’t actually been away though, hick.

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 2h2 hours ago
      The SNP are using Amber Rudd’s stupid and inflammatory plan to hide their confusion on Brexit

      http://archive.is/HAsEA

      Always nice to see red and blue tory yoon culture in their Scotland region working together.

    144. call me dave says:

      One in three Labour voters ‘backs coalition with SNP’

      https://archive.is/H7jtI

      Chris Cunningham wins Glasgow by-election victory for SNP in one of Labour’s heartlands

      https://archive.is/UVYGo

      PS:
      She who must be obeyed has upgraded my ‘man flu’ to real flu however don’t see any weak beef tea or sympathy…yet :0(
      ‘sniff’

      SNP X whatever and leave the other boxes empty in Election.

    145. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Tinto Chiel –

      This?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWttgp5SaQ

      No spoof – it was his personal ‘hello’ to newcomers on his website.

      Belter, intit?

    146. Andrew McLean says:

      What is on the BBC so called Scotland branch offices, as much as I like sport, this is shite? Are they trolling us, now with the Great British boxing ban. Let’s end this now is boxing likely to be banned,?
      No, but let’s talk to another English man, Scotland radio, don’t make me laugh!
      Oh great race crime up in England, but not Scotland so quick find a case, it’s called pooling and sharing. Bet we never hear from right wing racists who cause this, but guess when the national party’ will be insidiously dripped in!
      BBC the enemy within!

    147. Desimond says:

      Labour, very much still in the role of the spurned partner whose former love has left to be with someone else. They forget the abuse, they forget the neglect, all they do is sit there stewing in their own self pity blaming the “new partner” for stealing their love.

      I recall brookside encapsulating this perfectly when Billy Corkhill tells his wife he is leaving to be with another…she rants and raves and then says –

      “See you Billy Corkhill, Ive known you 25 years, and know what, you’ve changed!”
      Billy looks at her, sighs and says “You haven’t”

    148. Desimond says:

      Labour, very much still in the role of the spurned partner whose former love has left to be with someone else. They forget the abuse, they forget the neglect, all they do is sit there stewing in their own self pity blaming the “new partner” for stealing their love.

      I recall Brookside encapsulating this perfectly when Billy Corkhill tells his wife he is leaving to be with another…she cant comprehend the reality and rants and raves and then angrily says –

      “See you Billy Corkhill, I’ve known you 25 years, and know what, you’ve changed!”
      Billy looks at her, sighs and says “You haven’t”

    149. Robert Kerr says:

      Now Euro is 90.3 pence.

      A perfect “dead cat bounce!

      Forget fat fingers and algorithm artifacts. This is real.

    150. Jamie says:

      “but and” I think that guy, Alex Gallagher, rising star of the new and improved Scottish Labour, is the definition of FUD.

    151. CameonB Brodie says:

      Just when you think Labour can’t get any more stupid, one of them pops up to prove you wrong. What a joke of a once-proud movement.

      That’s what happens when you mix Scottish politics with British nationalism, which is really English nationalism in disguise. Mr. Gallagher appears to posses a mind that has been internally colonised to the point where he fights to deny Scots their human rights.

      @alevgallagher2
      When did you first become aware of your place in the master-slave relationship that is England’s claim over Scotland? You are self-aware?

    152. Its Labour’s default position, to tell these lies that the SNP is founded on hatred of the English.

      Because whenever Labour is challenged to state why it is so against Scotland becoming an independent nation once again it can’t provide any credible answers.

    153. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      DerekM at 10:00 am

      “…i thought you had disappeared up Ruth`s backside after she straddled you like a dumb beast”

      Cheers Derek. I was really enjoying my bacon piece anaw.

    154. DerekM says:

      @ galamcennalath

      Yes they can,shall we give them a hand?

      This is why you see the swiveled eye yoon tories losing the plot with all the threats and bluster rule Britannia extreme right wing rubbish its the last gasp and inevitability of the very thing they used to save their precious union project fear its all they have left.

      What makes the whole thing really disgraceful it was no more than an attempt at a bluff except the EU isnt wearing it since they sit with 4 aces and Scotland is the Ace of Diamonds.

      Old snake eyes westminster have just outsmarted themselves hence no plan for a brexit that was never meant to happen as it would give those pesky Scots a chance to escape with all that lovely oil money we tell them doesnt exist.

      What a shame 🙂

    155. Luigi says:

      One_Scot says:

      7 October, 2016 at 10:24 am

      Now that the BBC is legally bound to protect the union, it’s probably fair to say that they won’t give the SNP Annual Conference next week much coverage.

      In fact, they probably wont give it any coverage at all, given it may be one of the most important ones ever in the history of the so called union.

      They will cover it, grudgingly.

      However, be ready for a barrel full of SNP BAD stories to come out, right on cue as a spoiler to anything said at the conference. Classic distraction strategy. You can bet they have something on the shelf already. I wonder what little gems they have dug up this time – another SNP politician in “trouble”?

      Be prepared, SNP. Be prepared to be monstered next week, like you have never been monstered before. The stakes are sky high now and these people don’t muck about. 🙁

    156. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Robert Kerr says at 11:04 am

      Aye I notice today:

      Brent Crude Oil is now $52.51/BBL +1.24%

      Light Crude Oil is now $50.44/BBL +1.21%

      £ now = $1.22

      Euro now = £1:10

      So price fuel at the pump will increase as traded in $.

      Thank f**k I filled the heating oil to the neck pre EU Ref.

      Aye thank good for all them UK manufacturing industries Hammond and May bang on aboot seeing as imported goods prices will increasing in price too.

    157. heedtracker says:

      El Tone says dont vote Labour, or really just don’t vote, silly people. The blood thirsty cheese ball would make at least some sense if Corbyn was actually even remotely ultra left. Same JC’s already reneged on scrapping the Lords and Trident 2, he’s veep of CND for gawds sake.

      http://archive.is/E0KmS

      “The other culture is the ultra-left, which believes that the action on the street is as important as the action in parliament,” he said. “That culture has now taken the leadership of the Labour party. It’s a huge problem because they live in a world that is very, very remote from the way that the broad mass of people really think.

      “The reason why the position of these guys is not one that will appeal to an electorate is not because they are too left, or because they are too principled. It’s because they are too wrong.

    158. scotspine says:

      @ Peter McCulloch

      “Scottish Labour” = Tory and Westminster enablers.

    159. Valerie says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker

      Pleased to report the Columbian president won the Nobel peace prize. Not sure if he is a worthy winner, but has to be better than the White Helmets. That will put paid to their Netflix aspirations.

    160. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Robert Kerr says at 11:04 am

      Aye, I notice today:

      Brent Crude Oil is now $52.51/BBL +1.24%

      Light Crude Oil is now $50.44/BBL +1.21%

      £ now = $1.22

      Euro now = £1:10

      So price fuel at the pump will increase as traded in $.

      Thank f**k I filled the heating oil to the neck pre EU Ref.

      Aye thank good for all them UK manufacturing industries Hammond and May bang on aboot seeing as imported goods prices will increasing in price too.

    161. Dr Jim says:

      By gosh the media frenzy that’s going on desperately reporting the SNP winning Garscadden and Labour losing a “Heartland” area
      On and On they’re never done reporting this momentous news

      Hane you all heard it (deafening)

    162. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Valerie says at 11:24 am

      Well done to President Juan Manuel Santos then, despite the referendum on peace with FARC being lost.

      And there was me getting overly cynical/paranoid 🙂

    163. heedtracker says:

      Its not just that SLab are a bunch of the most bizarre characters. Corbyn’s the veep of CND, “and I’d like to thank everyone in the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament for voting for me as your Vice President!

      To mark this illustrious occasion, I Jeremy Corbyn announce Labour’s full support for the all new and exciting UKOK £200+bn Trident 2 nuclear bomb launching submarines. And don’t worry dear CNDers, they’re stashed up in Scotland so if one does go off, it wont be anywhere near your house. vote Labour, Rejoice”

      http://archive.is/ttALc

    164. Fred says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood, very good kid, what an arse. Speaking of arses, Gallagher’s letters in the Herald was one of the reasons I gave up that throbbing organ after a lot of years.

    165. @scotspine
      7 October, 2016 at 11:23 am

      I agree with what you say, which is why I don’t call them Scottish Labour.
      They are not a Scottish party and will do down Scotland at every opportunity.

    166. DerekM says:

      I know Dr Jim cant getaway from it its plastered over every paper been on the news and not just the diddy news,its even on the front of the express and mail Blow for Yoons Victory for popular Scottish party the SNP aye right.

      I guess with all the flak flying about they have not got round to turning into SNP bad yet lol

    167. Sue Varley says:

      Question for Robert Peffers if I may:

      Your constitutional knowledge is fascinating, and reading the previous thread this occurred to me. You explain that people born in England belong to the Queen, since she owns the kingdom of England and everything in it. People in Scotland do not, because the people are sovereign (presumably therefore “owning” themselves).

      When I moved from England to Scotland did I become free, or do I have to wait for independence and official Scottish passport/citizenship to no longer be owned by Her Maj?

    168. Desimond says:

      The actual tweets above remind me of wee story my mate used to tell

      Newly weds prepare for first sunday roast dinner, a lovely leg of lamb, and the husband is showcked when he sees the wife chop the leg of lamb in two and then place it in the oven.
      It bothers him somewhat and he feels compelled to ask.
      “Lovely food dear” says the husband “but Ive never seen that approach before, why do you do that?”

      “That’s the way my mother does it” replies the wife “Best ask her”
      So when he sees the Mother in law he asks her for the explanation and she says “Oh that’s how my mother does it, best ask her!” and off he heads to the retirement home to see the Granny,

      The granny sits and listens to the question and then laughs. “Why you laughing?” say the man. “Because the only reason I used to cut up the lamb was my cooker was too wee…have they idiots no moved on since then?”

    169. Brian Powell says:

      Luigi

      As Tom Watson of the Telegraph is co-chairing ReformScotland at the SNP Conference I would expect plenty of how the SNP SG is doing it wrong, and probably Federalism is right, so forget about Independence.

    170. hamish says:

      I wonder where he is on the Bell Curve of measured intelligence.

    171. Brian Powell says:

      Luigi

      That’s Tom Harris not Watson, though sometimes to me they seem the same.

    172. Brian Powell says:

      Luigi

      That’s Tome Harris not Watson

    173. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ian B: three watches now and it never fails to crease me up.

      “Come back and check it again.”

      So I did, and it’s still comedy gold.

      Satire is not just dead now, it’s been shot, stabbed, blown up, buried, exhumed and then burned at the stake.

      His wiki page is a hoot too.

      Jeez, Louise……..

    174. heedtracker says:

      For casual and serious collectors of lunchtime tory BBC propaganda, Ligger Neil’s Daily BBC vote tory Politics show today is a masterpiece of hard core UKOK conservative propaganda, whole show devoted to UKIPsters, one blue screened in front of the White House, for some barking mad tory BBC reason, all topped off with a massive vote UKIP boost from a Daily Heil Glenda Slagg.

      BBC Politics is usually party political broadcasts for the right but today its really spectacular. Its not quite at BBC says vote NO hysterics 2014 but its pretty near it.

    175. Legerwood says:

      O/T but just a bit.

      Does anyone know what Mr Corbyn said in his Jimmy Reid Lecture which I think took place last night?

    176. Tam Jardine says:

      Good to see so many folk tweeting their positive messages about living in Scotland. Good also to see the yoons like Hothersall and Mccolm are in a right old huff about the whole thing.

      Any initiative by the SNP is bad it seems- even something as demonstrably good as sending out a message to migrants living here that they are welcome. How petulant, and what a losing mentality. This is why they are losing and becoming irrelevant: tribalism blinding them to actual events.

      We have had a week where the tories have morphed into UKIP and are displaying the ugliest rhetoric I can remember the tories ever coming out with- a party who used to understand the value of immigration to the UK. And our FM has opposed them in the strongest possible terms.

      The snide carping from slab and the press is as predictable as it is pathetic. They must know how this is playing out and they cannot, cannot stand the SNP being gifted the moral high ground so spectacularly by the tories.

      Time to bite down and grow up- the union is being shrugged off by the tories and we are about to forge a new future without them.

    177. OT In a bid to strengthen ties with expats abroad, Theresa May is to scrap the current 15-year limit, and Britons who have settled overseas permanently are to be given a “vote for life” in British general elections.

    178. K1 says:

      A Ukip tosser punches another Ukip tosser and the Guardian has ‘Live updates’ on it’s site?

      What the fuck is this? They have one MP and a few MEP’s, why is this ‘incident’ being promoted across the msm, headlined across the rags in our newsagents as ‘news’?

    179. Nana says:

      Geez spelling gone bad in the last post, no wonder waiting for the by election results in Culloden and Ardersier is nerve wracking

    180. Baldeagle58 says:

      Capella says:

      7 October, 2016 at 12:34 am

      I see from The National front page posted above by Arbroath 1320, that GCC now require any Indy march to have 500 stewards. If there is a list of volunteer stewards to be drawn up I’d be willing to put my name down.

      Capella,
      You won’t be able to volunteer…..

      ‘The council has also ruled that volunteer stewards can no longer be used at any events organised by Neil MacKay or All Under One Banner. Instead, professional guards must be hired from registered companies at a ratio of 1 steward for every 10 people’

    181. Andrew McLean says:

      Nana,
      not wishing to belittle but not exactly nerve racking, I think its A SNP gain miles ahead of LD.

    182. scotspine says:

      @Baldeagle

      So what are the council going to do about it if thousands turn up anyway? Stewards or not?

      Turn off the CCTV in George Square?

      They are running scared.

    183. Fred says:

      A good speech from Nicola, streets ahead of anything her rivals are capable of, even FM in waiting, Ruth Davidson.

    184. Dal Riata says:

      BBC Scotland’s unionist propaganda has been outstanding this week, so far:

      Here’s Ruth Davidson sneering at Glaswegian’s calling her “hen” (much laughter from her English Tory audience); here’s Ruth Davidson getting a big hands-up from the Tory faithful in answer to, “Would you like to see Ruth Davidson in May’s cabinet?” (Ehhh, EVEL…?) while Ruth grins like a Cheshire cat; here’s Ruth Davidson rubbishing Scottish independence and ‘warning’ Nicola Sturgeon not to hold another referendum (cheers from the audience); here’s Ruth Davidson getting the ‘honour’ of speaking just before Theresa May… the UK Prime Minister; here’s Ruth Davidson giggling like an eejit after being told how pure dead brilliant she is, honest, by the English Tories; here’s Ruth Davidson….

      BBC News Where You Are, geeze peace and STFU about Ruth Davidson! Your Unionist propaganda and promoting of this woman is so blatant it’s embarrassing – shame on you.

      By the way, what has happened to your other Great Unionist Hope, Kezia Dugdale? Have you had some kind of really fascinating insight to discover that Kezia and Labour’s Scottish Branch are burnt toast in Scotland? What kept you?

      And now it’s Davidson you’re promoting like the anti-Scottish independence stooges you are, and always have been, as you do all you can to stop Scotland’s rightful self-determination…

      Indepence can’t come quick enough for Scotland. Only then will we be able to free ourselves of the shackles of the Britnat Propaganda Unit ie the BBC. I long for the day when the people of Scotland can finally tell them to GTF!

    185. Robert Graham says:

      O/T but what the hell ,
      On everyone’s favourite BBS website with the heading ” getting back to the day job” now where have i heard that line before ? mm anyway I used to have a bit of respect for Brian Taylor ” no laughing at the back now ” but with this piece he presents i am really saddened and disappointed he has completely been absorbed into the uk/ok line of misinformation, if i had not watched FMQs i probably would have taken his comments on face value , while his piece is factually correct it’s a confusing piece he gives as much coverage to Kezia’s Train thing as the main event , this being Ruthie getting her arse handed to her on a plate not once but quite a few times on thursday , this i think is very troubling and if this is going on with other news items this BBC scotland are not only deceiving but activly conspiring against people here there is a term for that and if it was in a time of war the death penalty usually followed such actions , the BBC apparently have dropped any pretence of being a news organisation and are now full on save the Union at any cost lies and half truths are permitted a sad state of affairs for all because if and when they might decide to tell the truth on a major or important item half the country won’t believe them .

    186. Richardinho says:

      In truth it’s probably about time to stop talking about the Labour party in Scotland. They are dead and whilst it’s fun to gloat over its demise for a while, ultimately we have to move on to new things.

    187. Capella says:

      @Baldeagle58
      The council has also ruled that volunteer stewards can no longer be used at any events organised by Neil MacKay or All Under One Banner. Instead, professional guards must be hired from registered companies at a ratio of 1 steward for every 10 people

      So providing it is not Neil MacKay or All Under One Banner organising then no stewards are required?

      Are these named people, orgs being discriminated against, or does this also apply to other orgs e.g. OO? This would appear to limit freedom of assembly.

    188. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Dal Riata says at 1:55 pm

      BBC Scotland’s unionist propaganda has been outstanding this week, so far.

      Hear, Hear Dal Riata.

      SNP still Baaad

      Rooth the Mooth still the ‘working class Tory’ saviour of the Union, and ignore the Xenophobia and her “thieves & vandals ‘banter’ “.

    189. Stoker says:

      No need for words, this speaks volumes:
      https://twitter.com/hashtag/WeAreScotland?src=hash

      Please help if you can folks, they are a very important part of our independence operations and we’d be lost without them. Thanks!
      Going Postal
      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/going-postal–4#/

    190. Nana says:

      @Andrew McLean

      Seems I’m not alone with my nerves a jangling

      https://twitter.com/DrPaulMiddleton/status/784372612235456512?lang=en-gb

      I freely admit I don’t understand how this system works and am just waiting on a call tell me the result.

    191. Petra says:

      @ Baldeagle58 at 1:32pm …. ‘Professional Guards’.

      If it comes right down to it we should fundraise for every event. Put their gas on a bl**dy peep.

      ……….

      @ Boris at 11:21am …… ‘Iraq and Syria’.

      Boris thanks for the link. Brilliant.

    192. HandandShrimp says:

      The Highland council seat is a Labous loss but it may be either an SNP gain or Lib Dem gain depending on the last throw of the dice of Tory votes.

      Given it is Tory votes one can understand the nervousness.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if they all rally to the anti-SNP vote.

    193. Capella says:

      Robert Kerr 11:04 am
      Now Euro is 90.3 pence.

      I see that – on the XE-EUR site you linked to. But the BBC Live update on the Sterling Flash has had the £ at 1.11 euros for about 2 hrs.
      http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=GBP&view=1M

      Meanwhile, BBC WatO goes hysterical about the UKIP fracas.
      Perhaps “Look, a squirrel!” again.

    194. heedtracker says:

      Viewers may find the following scenes pretty predictable in the all and exciting new UKOK zone. Rule Britannia.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-37575508

    195. Nana says:

      O/T

      Shameful

      The UK Government Told The LSE To Remove Non-UK Nationals From A Brexit Project

      http://archive.is/GUqV7

    196. ScottieDog says:

      Out of interest
      Has anyone in political circles from doon south actually indicated their support to get rid of Scotland?
      If not, then shouldn’t we ask why?

    197. call me dave says:

      Liberal Democrat GAIN Culloden and Ardersier (Highland) from Labour.

      wos twitter: 🙁

    198. Arbroath1320 says:

      Sorry if this has already been linked to.

      We are all well aware of the lists now being prepared by the staff of das Fuhrer … foreign Doctors, foreign born children, foreign workers etc. Well folks we now have the incredibly fantastic situation 😉 where the Socialist government of Nazi Germany Britain will no longer take any advice from foreign academics about Brexit!

      http://archive.is/qxZKC

    199. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Sue Varley @ 11:52,

      I salute your indefatigability, brave Englishwoman, to post here amidst the vilest of vile seps after Gallagher’s recent dire warning.

      And if I dare pre-empt Mr. Peffers, congratulations! You became your own woman immediately you crossed the border, because here the writ of Scots Law runs. For everyone. (Just because you’re English, you can’t sell your hoose the English way, f’rinstance.)

      So relax, pour yourself a glass of the fizzy stuff, and give a toast to History. Better still, keep it on hold, because soon enough we’ll all be celebrating full independence. And you’ll be a welcome one of us, at least if you want to be.

    200. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      call me dave say 7 October, 2016 at 2:42 pm

      “Liberal Democrat GAIN Culloden and Ardersier (Highland) from Labour.”

      Christ Wee Wullie will make himsel’ sick jumpin’ up ‘n doon on the bouncy castle in celebration.

      Lots of Fib Dem voters in the Highlands are Unionists who can’t bear to admit to themselves they are actually Tories.

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      @Nana
      It wont’d just be sad for LSE it’ll be a disaster. LSE were about the best during Indyref, for papers and articles that were able to see outside the UK perspective, and that would probably be because they’re more international in their outlook. If they have to remove non-UK nationals, with the best will in the world their perspective will change, and the inherent institutional UK bias will creep in to everything they do, not just that Brexit project. And the bias will destroy the utility of their papers.

    202. Clootie says:

      O/T

      May years ago someone posted the summary below on Wings. How far Labour in Scotland have travelled from their roots!
      I thought it an interesting summary
      ………………….

      The pre-19th century Highlands had far larger populations. The UK government outlawed the existing Highland way of life after the Jacobite rising of 1745 with the, “Highland Clearances”. Then we had mass migration to industrial areas during, “The Industrial Revolution”. Due to this the average population density in the Highlands is actually lower than such as Sweden, Norway, Papua New Guinea and the Argentine.

      In 1846 the Irish Potato famine spread to the Highlands of Scotland and a system known as, “Chain Migration”, began. Shortly after that there began a move by crofters to the political, “Liberal Radicalism”, which led to, “The Highland Land League”, and violent clashes began, (on Skye), between the poor crofters and the landlords. Eventually the government stepped in and passed, “the Crofters Holdings (Scotland Act), 1886. This guaranteed tenure, broke up the large estates and provided crofts for the homeless. The political movement begun by the Crofters began to fade around 1892 with the crofters votes mainly going to the Liberal Party. However, note that, “The Highland Land League”, (known as The Crofter’s Party), elected 5 MPs to Westminster in 1885/86. The party was led by Dr. Gavin Clark who was also vice president of, “The Scottish Home Rule Association”. James Kier Hardie, the Ayrshire Miners leader, was also an office bearer with that party.

      Although the first gainers from this working class movement was the Liberal Party, the greater demands for an expanding working-class representation at Westminster began to cause strains and in March 1888 Kier Hardie offered his services as a candidate to the Liberal Party for the Mid-Lanark constituency. He was too radical for the Liberals who chose instead a London based, barrister. Hardie then stood as an Independent Labour Candidate.
      Hardie only gained 8% of the vote but, in the Summer of 1888, Hardie’s Mid-Lanark alliance formalised itself into, “The Scottish Labour Party”.

    203. yesindyref2 says:

      Holy dogpoo, thought I’d better order a supply from a company in England who get it from the US. I had a price a week or two back for it, and it’s gone up £80, they adjust the price on a daily basis. Better wait till next week as the pound has already bounced back a bit. Sheesh. Wish I’d managed to order it yesterday but I wasn’t ready.

    204. louis.b.argyll says:

      Regarding the Marching Orders article, seen above on twitter..

      For every died in the wool unionist that croaks it, a child is born with hope in it’s heart, we must ensure the next generation is free from prejudice.

      The future’s bright, but for the Tories.

    205. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just seen this from Tony Pollard.

      https://twitter.com/ProfTonyPollard/status/784098764730564609

      I remember watching TV programmes with him and Neil Oliver about battles like Killiecrankie, Bannockburn and the Battle of Britain that I very much enjoyed.

      At least one half of this historical duo is beginning to see sense, in my view, and giving serious consideration to supporting YES in indy ref 2. I think everyone should give him as much support as they can to help make his move from NO to YES so much easier. 😉

    206. heedtracker says:

      Dr NO! says read this. Its a bit out of date but as long as old smirky slags of Scotland, sorry the SNP vote. Its just what we need to read, out of date means June last year. Is Dr NO! deep under cover SNP though?

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 3h3 hours ago
      JK Rowling: there’s still anti-English prejudice in the SNP

      http://archive.is/aLfeJ

    207. Dr Jim says:

      And if there are no stewards what are the consequences threatened by the high heid yins of Glasgow Cooncil Labour Party Bummers, would it be the same thing they do every other time, switch off the cctv so’s they can deny it ever happened or claiming hordes of Nats were violently making speeches and singing while waving their Flags of Terror while the police stood by (checking out the motor bikes and having a laugh) and did nothing because they didn’t have the numbers and the SNP underfunds them

      Children having their faces marked blue by fanatical parents and forcing them to have a good time eating stuff that’s unhealthy (Aw the stuff they like)
      Foreigners forced to wear clothing of their origins to mark them out as different and made to wave the Flags of Terror (Oor Muslim pals and English for Indy)
      Bearded Nationalist Hells Angels loyal to Sturgeons banners snarling at onlookers with bared gums (some of the lads are knocking on a bit)

      Every time I write Flags of Terror I keep hearing Vincent Price “Flaags ov Te-rroar”

      See every time they try to interfere or stop us more folk keep turning up to march and watch

      Luvvley innit

    208. carjamtic says:

      O/T

      Does anyone know if there is a suitable ‘Facebook twibbon’ I can use on my FB page,to show support to the folk that are ‘listed’ ?

      #smallgestureofsupport

    209. liz says:

      Hopefully SLAB will be out of Glasgow next May.

      I think a challenge should be made regarding freedom of speech, we have not dropped HRA yet.

      Also the same rules must apply to the OO

    210. Stu Mac says:

      I’ve seen Private Eye criticise the (so called) Independent Press Standards Organisation for being toothless but I think this goes way beyond being toothless:
      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9582/press-regulator-finds-favour-express-widespread-violence-indyref-claims

      Relevance to thread, maybe not much but to all genuinely independent outlets a lot. That’s the press regulator saying lies are OK.

    211. Cadogan Enright says:

      Campaign now started in NI for all Irish Passport holders to register as ‘foreigners’ to frustrate Amber Rudds Nazty proposal.

      Amber Rudd’s brother speaks out http://archive.is/0nOv8

      But the Sun weighs in to support http://archive.is/le2J0

      Faced with a demand in 1942 by the Nazis that Danish Jews be required to wear the Star of David King Kristján 10th of Denmark refused and threatened to have his whole family wear the star and call upon all Danes to wear the star if such a decree was issued. The Natzis backed down and Danish Jews escaped.

      Kristján’s 1942 diary recorded “I stated that I could not meet such a demand towards Danish citizens. If such a demand is made, we would best meet it by all wearing the Star of David.”

      As a Councillor, I sign passport applications every week. I am aware that a majority of both Irish Nationalist and Irish Unionist people in my area now carry Irish passports, including elected representatives of every hue.

    212. Andy-B says:

      Still pushing the same old line, of hatred, Labour will never learn.

    213. Arbroath1320 says:

      To be fair Stu Mac can anyone really be surprised by that result? 😉

      I mean I think most people have already drawn the same conclusion about IPSO in that they are toothless and bought and sold by the main stream media it is supposed to oversee.

    214. Ot. I phoned into lbc last night they were talking about the civilian casualties in Syria from the Russian bombing women and children I asked do British and American bombing not kill women and children ? And I never heard a word about any of this when we were bombing Iraq or Afghanistan and killing women and children some of the pilots who did this were taken to the palace and given medals for it talk about double standards ,,.needless to say I never got on air they hate the truth

    215. manandboy says:

      John Souter: The Herald
      “This is all damage control designed for the benefit of Westminster. Nothing more than reactionary rhetoric with neither substance nor radical purpose other than to camouflage their political hyperbole’ from the true depths of their incompetence.

      Governance Westminster style – where the constancy of failure is given the kudos of success and measured by a tradition of corruption.”

      In other words, when you see Theresa May substitute Richard Nixon.

    216. bugsbunny says:

      There was another by election today. In Glasgow Garacadden/Scotstounhill which was won by Chris Cunningham, brother of Roseanna for the SNP by around 100 votes over Labour’s Ian Cruikshank. Turnout was 24% with a 20% swing to the SNP form Labour.

      In the 2012 Council Election’s Labour scored over 60% of the vote.They now have 39 councillors down from 45 in 2012 .The SNP are now at 30.

    217. bugsbunny says:

      Oh, and BTW, at 39 Councillors they are 1 away from losing their overall majority. A great marker perhaps for next year?

    218. heedtracker says:

      Nice display of what red and blue tory propagandist’s do when they’re losing. Does Euan McSpanner really think anyone cares whether its him or not:D

      Brian Splaw ?@BrianSpanner1 2h2 hours ago
      #wearescotland

      Scotland 2016 – A nation that promotes education apartheid.
      9 retweets 13 likes

      Brian Splaw Retweeted
      euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      tuition is free for scottish and european students but not english ones. #wearescotland

    219. louis.b.argyll says:

      The whole foreign student vs English student thing..is because in England it’s a total free for all unregulated mess. Local authorities don’t have the authority to share.

    220. Lenny Hartley says:

      Harry Mcaye I heard once that he is the Brother of Benny Gallacher of brilliant songwriters Gallacher and Lyle. Anyway that’s what a mate who comes from Largs told me.

    221. Capella says:

      Glasgow City Council’s kangaroo court:

      A council source told The National: “The public procession committee is very rarely called – it only really happens when there is a march we want to turn into a stationary event, or a parade we want to reroute.

      “That’s usually only events organised by groups like the Scottish Defence League or Hibernian or Orange Order walks.”.
      Seemingly they are cracking down on Indyref events because of some unspecified traffic offences.

      https://archive.is/5IbrZ

      Haven’t been able to find a minute and membership for the “public procession committee” which is very rarely called. Will keep on searching.

      Meantime, an interesting contrast with the organisation of Orange Fest last year. “Why Have Glasgow City Council Allowed Orange Fest?”
      https://www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/News/why-have-glasgow-city-council-allowed-orangefest-licensing-board-decisions/1907988717.html

    222. call me dave says:

      Radio shortbread salivating on the UKIP confrontation and hurricane Matthew with a wee bit of motorbike trouble in Edinburgh and the Stones are bringing out a new album.

      Nothing about Nicola neglecting her ‘day job’ to make a speech in Iceland, well that’s a blessing!

    223. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Yay finally voted depute leadership thing it got easier deciding when I decided Angus was either 1st or 4th and then decide the other 3 in order. Spock would have approved of the logic live long and prosper in Indy Scotland the needs of the many and all that undiscovered country kind of thing except many of us have discovered it and love it dearly. Had to email mi-vote as hadn’t come and got the standard response check spam folder oh no I did remember to plug into the mains socket and switch on the flaming appliance but guess what they were better than that when I read on they also provided my voting code and a link well done very good they get my vote well the candidates did anyway.

      Aren’t commas amazing things?

    224. heedtracker says:

      From white hot self loathing cringer tories like Macspanner’s,

      euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      i believe in scottish exceptionalism and nauseating virtue signalling. #wearescotland

      via

      euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      tuition is free for scottish and european students but not english ones. #wearescotland

      to

      Wings Over Scotland Retweeted
      Jerry Moriarty ?@WidelyRecycled 2h2 hours ago
      Imagine voting for tuition fees and then getting indignant when your son or daughter can’t then get free tuition elsewhere.

    225. heedtracker says:

      From white hot self loathing cringer tories like Macspanner’s,

      euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      i believe in scottish exceptionalism and nauseating virtue signalling. #wearescotland

      via

      euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      tuition is free for scottish and european students but not english ones. #wearescotland

      to

      Wings Over Scotland Retweeted
      Jerry Moriarty ?@WidelyRecycled 2h2 hours ago
      Imagine voting for tuition fees and then getting indignant when your son or daughter can’t then get free tuition elsewhere.

    226. Dal Riata says:

      Blair Paterson @ 4:57pm

      The BBC has been going overboard this week in its,’Aleppo and its citizens are getting bombed to shit – let’s blame it all on the murdering, heartless, war-criminal behaving Russians!’

      It is propoganda 101. Show the deaths, particularly that of children, and destruction, especially that of hospitals, and then say it’s all done on purpose by The Baddies – the Russians. The gullible then go, “Those bloody Russians – what a bunch of murderous bastards!”. And, ta-daaaa! Job done!

      It’s so blatantly obvious it is utterly shameful.

      ‘Our boys’ actions: bombings, shootings, killings and assassinations, both overt and covert, in Syria (as well as Libya, Iraq and the Yemen, for example) are hardly ever shown, and if they are, it’s ‘in response to terrorist actions’, or ‘as part of the coalition [sic] supporting’ who they have decided are The Goodies in the latest war/civil war/uprising/failed state. And the maimed children and destroyed hospitals? No, no, no, there is no way that’ll be shown on the UK-wide 6 o’clock or 10 o’clock news.

      Oh yes, and the Russians were invited into Syria by its president. The Brits? Nope! The Americans? Nope!

      Britnat lies and hypocrisy… belched out to one and all day after day after day…

    227. Connor McEwen says:

      Bugsbunny 5.15 and .20 20% turnout need to get higher ,jist in case and x2
      Rizzoll and the Muppets Brexit Cabinet dirty Tricks mob still in session

    228. manandboy says:

      “As a Councillor, I sign passport applications every week. I am aware that a majority of both Irish Nationalist and Irish Unionist people in my area now carry Irish passports, including elected representatives of every hue.”

      Therefore, for the people of NI, the EU Flag is a flag of convenience. So the Union flag remains the undisputed emblem for the Loyalists & the Orange Orders – but only when it suits them.

    229. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      “euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      tuition is free for scottish and european students but not english ones.”

      So using Gallagher’s logic, McColm hates the Welsh and NornIrish?

    230. Ken500 says:

      Boris Johnston daughter got a subsidised education at St Andrew’s University. Along with other wealthy students, from elsewhere, at Scottish Universities. Many Scottish students could not go to University because Labour/Unionists were means-testing student loans on average household incomes. They now can get a full loan.

    231. Capella says:

      Re GCC Public Processions Committee who have issued a fatwa against Indyref marches etc – I can only find one meeting recorded since July and that was to discuss Independent Republican Bands Scotland marches.

      https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/councillorsandcommittees/agenda.asp?meetingid=15014

      So who knows how they met and agreed to impose draconian conditions on Indyref. None imposed on said Independent Republican Bands Scotland although there were incidents on account of opposition groups.

    232. Ken500 says:

      Wealthy students from elsewhere could be subsidised by Scottish taxpayers while Scottish students could not go to University because they could not get a full loan.

    233. frogesque says:

      @bugsbunny 5.20:

      Re Glasgow Council, I wonder if any SLabber would be tempted to join the winning side and cross the floor?

    234. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      7 October, 2016 at 5:56 pm
      @Heed
      “euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h5 hours ago
      tuition is free for scottish and european students but not english ones.”

      Tory propaganda is a dirty game, red or blue. England’s got a lot more uni’s than Scotland proportionally but that’s mostly down to John Major turning all English polytechnics and colleges into universities, whether they wantrd to do it or not.

      Subsequently, as we know UKOK tubthumpers up here rage away at SNP Scots.gov for not getting more of the worst off kids into uni. They have a huge point to make but the idea that tory creeps in Scotland give a flying UKOK fcuk about poor students, and £9+k a year fees is just toryboy mad. Its continually tested at the polls too, which makes no odds to yoon culture, angry, entitled, we used to have Scotland in the back pocket tory buffoonery.

    235. call me dave says:

      George Square site in Glasgow earmarked for £70m revamp

      http://archive.is/zrVSd

    236. Legerwood says:

      Students and fees. This seems to be a recurring theme from the Unionist side at the moment clearly in an attempt to tar the SNP with the xenophobe/racist brush.

      Free university tuition in Scotland is available to all students domiciled in Scotland be they Hottentot, or Hampshire born. The important condition is that Scotland is their main home – and for at least 3 years if I have remembered correctly.

      The other category of students to get free tuition are students from the EU because of EU regulations.

      England is now about the only EU country to charge fees for university tuition.

      Scotland has to exist on a block grant therefore it is perfectly understandable and in no way racist to restrict this benefit to those living in Scotland irrespective of their place of birth. It would not be affordable otherwise.

    237. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      That’s pleasing, 89 visitors mostly via wings but 24 via twitter, 2 facebook and 137 page views. Thanks much. Mostly UK of course (120) I’m looking forward to when it’s a saltire and whatever the rest have as their flag, but 7 page views from US, 5 Japan, 2 Vietnam, 1 each Italy Canada and Georgia.

      I’m going to have to knock up a proper paragraph for the Commission though, from the point of view of democracy, as it’s what many Leave people don’t like. Mmmm.

    238. Capella says:

      Glasgow’s Public Processions Committee has three people on it, all Labour: Alistair Watson (Chair), Elaine McDougall and Fariha Thomas.
      https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/councillorsandcommittees/viewPack.asp?c=P62AFQ2UNTUTDX81B253YXYXQAJ5I77DJ52AFQDNZLT1DNDX

      Surprisingly, they seem to be the councillors who imposed impossible-to-meet conditions on Indyref marches. But no record exists of the meeting where this decision was taken.

    239. Breeks says:

      I need a reality check sometimes.

      Somewhere in Germany there must be some wrinkled old veteran of pre war Germany who watches his TV and sees the rude and brazen right wing extremists from a foreign country masquerading as politicians, but having a punch up without any shame in an open public area, while their national government is pledging to remove the protection of human rights legislation from their citizens, restrict free movement, compile lists and registrations of foreign people and their children, while the state run media is just a propaganda hound which howls whatever its master wants it to howl; whether that is foul abuse, political smear, or contrived dishonesty is all of no consequence.

      The countries economics are going to the dogs, the poor already cannot feed themselves, yet money can be found for rearmament of mighty warships and weapons of mass destruction, while fires they have lit already burn throughout the night all over the Middle East.

      Immigrants are victimised. The poor and needy are maligned. The sick and disabled are seen as a burden. And the Muslim enemy is already at the gate, threatening….

      The errant Government ignores the UN’s condemnation of its record on human rights both at home and abroad, and many of its soldiers stand accused of torture and abuse in faraway places. Hey! It’s a time of emergency! Anything goes.

      The errant Government shuns the international laws which bind it to European membership protocols, and it follows its own protocols unchecked, while there’s a nudge and a wink to far right kindred spirits in other lands. Come on in, the water is lovely.

      The errant Government covets the resources of their neighbouring lands, and seeks to purloin their resources and territory by covert machination, while its propaganda interferes with their democracy and subverts their progressive nation building and self determination whilst furthering the interests of internal dissenters who threaten unrest with violent overtones if crossed or challenged. The divide is kept febrile just in case the conquer needs an accelerant.

      Are there really youth groups being set up in schools? Really? Do they have a special salute for their flag and queen? Schools where history is already being rewritten?

      And the other Tories, the lesser red Tories, are plotting their alliance and complicity in the madness while fretting about getting the trains to run on time?

      Dear God. I wonder if my weary old friend in Germany has a tear in his eye as he watches.

      This cannot be happening. Time for another reality check…. We all thought it was Orwells 1984 which stalked us, not Hitler’s 1934.

    240. Robert Louis says:

      Labour and their hypocrisy and lies about tuition fees is digraceful. The Welsh Government subsidise to e very large extent the tuition fees of Welsh students, as do the N.Ireland authorities. Neither offers their subsidy for English born and resident students attending their institutions.

      WALES:

      If you are from Wales and your annual uni fees are 9k, the Welsh Government pays a grant of 5.1k towards the fees for you – you do not pay this back. You only repay the outstanding amount as a student loan from the 9k (i.e approx 3.9k). This applies no matter where in the UK a Welsh student studies. English students in Wales pay full tuition fees. This policy in Wales is a LABOUR policy, as they run the Welsh Government.

      As regards Labour hypocrisy on this subject, some may find this link of interest. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2016-wales-35990728

      N.Ireland:

      Universities in N.Ireland can charge up to 3,295 per year in tuition fees for N.Ireland students, and non UK EU students.

      Full fees (9k) are charged to students from England, Wales (but are then subsidised as above by Welsh Gov) and Scotland (ditto Wales).

      So you see, and as Labour know very well, the problem is not with the Scottish Government, but the Westminster Government and how they handle students in England.

      Always interesting to remember in all of this, that it was Labour who first introduced tuition fees in England and also Scotland (in the form of a ‘graduate endowment’ tax, abolished completely by the SNP).

      Labour, the big fat hypocritical liars of Scottish politics.

    241. heedtracker says:

      England is now about the only EU country to charge fees for university tuition.

      England also wants Trident 2, £200+bn, they cant ever fire it, its a tiny percentage of the world’s total nuke weapon arsenal and if one goes off in the Clyde, its all over for Scotland.

    242. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      If the current Scottish parliament voted by a majority vote for independence, is there any SCOTTISH LAW that would make it ILLEGAL?

      If there is, which one?

    243. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      frogesque says at 6:01 pm

      Tne “SLabbers” at GCC level would be to partisan and Unionist to be tempted to join the winning side and cross the floor.

    244. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rock
      Fair point, but if it did make such a vote the question would then be was it legally competent to make sich a vote, and competent to carry it through. That then is the question, does it owe its existence to the Scotland Act which does NOT give it the competence, or is it the reconvened Scottish Parliament that existed prior to 1st May 1707, which would have the competence.

      In the words of Winnie Ewing, in the presence of the UK Head of State, Elizabeth II of England and some of the rUK, or Elizabeth I of Scotland – or Elizabeth not queen at all of Scotland, on 12th May 1999:

      “I want to start with the words that I have always wanted either to say or to hear someone else say – the Scottish Parliament, which adjourned on March 25, 1707, is hereby reconvened.”

    245. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Breeks says at 6:46 pm

      Great post Breeks and as the Grandson of a Free Polish soldier who settled in Scotland post WWII I also can’t fathom why the MSM in the UK aren’t going to town on the Tories for their stance rather than aiding and abetting them.

      I don’t do twitter but assume Jill the “History Woman” is pointing out the uncomfortable similarities and condemning the Tories for their Nuremberg esque Birmingham Conference rants (what with it being her specialist subject and all).

      Or is it only Civic Scottish Nationalism she has a problem with?

    246. Valerie says:

      I think any Unionist must have huge brass balls to call SNP racist over anything, much less Uni fees. I honestly don’t get into any debate for a while now.

      I leave a fact that refutes the lie, and block them. In that way, the fact is there for checking by anyone with a brain, who is genuine.

      The non UK academics from the LSE story is getting a good airing now. An English lawyer is wondering if it’s against EU procurement rules. He has confirmed the story is true via contact with the LSE, and it is a directive from the FCO.

      People seem to have trouble this is really happening.

      I don’t.

    247. Petra says:

      @ Capella at 5:59pm …… ‘Public Processions Committee’.

      Can’t help you out with GCC PPC Capella, but there’s some interesting data on the Scot.gov site relating to number of OO walks, by area, costs, number of police required to monitor these walks etc. I’m on my IPad so can’t post links.

      You can bet your bottom dollar that these OO ‘walks’ are more frequent, require more police to monitor, cost more for the taxpayer, result in more disruption to pedestrians, greater loss of earnings for local businesses and lead to arrests for public offences (how many per walk?). Maybe we should issue a Freedom of Information request?

      As a ‘pedestrian’ example my husband was late for an appointment in Glasgow in July because he couldn’t cut through their ‘ranks’ which is not the case with Indy marches.

      As to the GCC PPC meetings couldn’t you contact them and request minutes of such meetings? I’ll do this too on Monday.

    248. Dr Jim says:

      Maybe we should all wear wee patches that say “Foreigner” or some such on them for the next Indy rally

      I think I might get one that says “I’m a Hottentot count me”
      While I wave my flag of terror with the words emblazened
      “Half educated tenement dweller”

    249. Lenny Hartley says:

      Breeks @ 6:46 very well said.

    250. yesindyref2 says:

      Yougov poll toady about Blair:

      The return of Blair would see large numbers of voters fleeing from the Labour party for the Greens and Liberal Democrats.

      THAT’s a key constituency for YES.

    251. Hamish100 says:

      Re GCC Public Processions Committee.

      Are there minutes? FOI request appropriate? did they take advice from Police SCOTLAND? Less support at an old firm match on Hogmanay!!

      IS THIS POLITICAL OR A SAFETY DECISION? –MUST BE ABLE T0 CHALLENGE LEGALLY

      If I provide a big bucket could you when passing buy chuck in a £? if you visit George Square when out shopping.

    252. Sunniva says:

      EX PATS TO BE GIVEN VOTE FOR LIFE under new law.

      Guardian revealing that ex pats are to be allowed to vote in UK general elections even if they have not lived in the UK for more than 15 years. Reckoned to be 1 million of them. How would this affect a future indyref? Pro rate maybe 150,000 Scots. From my experience people living abroad for that length of time are not abreast of current events, current experience of government policies, and the current mood of the country.

    253. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker says:
      7 October, 2016 at 6:47 pm

      “”England also wants Trident 2, £200+bn, they cant ever fire it, its a tiny percentage of the world’s total nuke weapon arsenal and if one goes off in the Clyde, its all over for Scotland.””

      With the fall in the pound against the dollar then Trident just became even more expensive and all those nice jets from the US for the carriers

    254. Rock says:

      yesindyref2,

      “@Rock
      Fair point, but if it did make such a vote the question would then be was it legally competent to make sich a vote, and competent to carry it through.”

      How “sovereign” are we then?

    255. Sue Varley says:

      @Robert Sutherland:

      Thanks, great news. The fizzy stuff is chilling in the fridge, I’ll drink to your health. Might even find another bottle for indyref2 day.

    256. Iain says:

      Why don’t we get wee badges made in blue, shaped like a previous regime’s star of David, saying Scot. It would show the Tory’s what the people of Scotland think of their turn to fascism. If people don’t stand up for freedom, it will be lost. The freedom of the Scottish people is threatened.
      If we don’t stand against it, it will consume England, then Scotland.

    257. Robert Louis says:

      O/T,

      Did Philipp Hammond inadvertently reveal the UK gov strategy for brexit when interviewed on chan4 news around 725pm tonight. (you can watch it again on chan4+1)

      At one point in the interview, discussing the economy, he said, words to the effect of ‘we are leaving the EU, we are taking back our sovereignty and control of our borders, but then we will negotiate what we hope will be the best trade deal with the single market….

      I have paraphrased, but the key point was the ‘but then we will negotiate…’ Could it be, that the uk Gov, is planning to invoke article 50, and leave with immediate effect? Then afterwards, sort out trade deals and other details. Nobody, not even the EU could stop them.

      This would completely throw the EU, and prevent the Scottish Government stopping Scotland being taken out too.

    258. DerekM says:

      Jings guys i think we might need to build some houses or clear out our spare rooms for the flood of people looking to escape the tories.

      I see the usual suspects are all over the twitter hashtag posting their cringe not even figuring out how much it exposes them haha yoon trolls hopeless eejits lol

    259. North chiel says:

      ” Dal Riata” and ” Blair Paterson” 0544& 0457 pm , agree that the ‘ Westminster state broadcaster’
      has been ” ramping up” the anti Russian rhetoric recently. If the UK looks likely to ” fall apart” any time soon , then no doubt the Tory Cabal will be looking for the opportunity to ” unite the nation” behind ” our brave armed forces boys& girls” ( as usual)”. I can visualise the ” front pages” with photos of Thatcher2 and RD waving from the tank turret wearing their ” Union Jack” headscarves .
      Let’s all guess who’s sons& daughter will be in the vanguard shall we?

    260. Glamaig says:

      @Robert Louis

      that is my fear too, from reading between the lines of the Tory conference, it’s more important to Westminster to hold onto Scotland than anything else, even dealing with a hard and sudden Brexit. They might gamble on an early referendum, because they know as time goes on they lose support, and with Scotland’s resources they have a chance of surviving Brexit. I think we have to assume the campaign has already started and we may be forced into a snap referendum early next year.

      I’m very worried they are going to encourage racism and xenophobia in Scotland and Project Fear 2 will be about appealing to the very worst of human nature and scaremongering about immigration if Scotland stays in the EU.

      We are in the grip of an appalling regime, and to cap it all, an inanely grinning Ruth Davidson on Strictly will be broadcast continuously into our homes… boak

    261. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Louis think the rules of the game are that you can’t negotiate with the E. U. Ot anybody until you enact article 50

    262. Joannie says:

      North Chiel – they won’t pick a fight with Russia. Picking a fight with someone big enough to fight back isn’t their style. I’m more worried about them inventing enemies within to turn the army on. Scottish nationalists maybe, dissident republicans in Northern Ireland even more likely.

    263. Artyhetty says:

      Breeks@6.46pm

      Really astute observations, which we are all pretty much aware of, but worryingly, so many are not.

      This escalation in extremism, in the tory government is just not being taken seriously by many. It is one thing to have an extreme, right wing group, like the EDL, on the periphery, but quite another to have a ruling political party, in 2016, actually encouraging and escalating ethnically driven, divide and hatred between people, no matter where they hail from.

      The tactics being used now, by the tory gov at the helm, have not been dreamed up overnight, but are being instigated while most people still actually view the bbc etc as a democratic institution, or, who really are very blinkered, or just do not care.

      Great to see so many on twitter today, outwardly rejecting the racist, bigoted, backward, tories attempt to create hatred and divide between ordinary decent folk. We in Scotland will not stand for this tory negative. It’s destructive, and a backward divide and rule tactic. No thanks.

    264. Liz g says:

      Robert Louis 8.03
      Must admit it crossed my mind too.
      Thought I was just being a bit paranoid but I can’t see what they would have to gain by waiting.
      As I said on a previous thread.

      Now everyone knows that it’s a hard Brexit what ever the fall out is,it will happen anyway.

      But if what we suspect about Scotland’s actual wealth is true (they will know for sure ) then we are not just desirable to hold on to but essential to their survival.
      So if they can get out of Europe fast would that as they see it be their best , perhaps only chance of keeping us?

    265. Papadox says:

      The establishment keep running down NORTH SEA oil now that they have £300b, stolen from the people of Scotland over the last 45’years to line westminsters pockets. There is still lots of assets left in the NORTH SEA which are minimised and played down.

      What is being avoided is the known potential of the WEST OF SHETLAND/ ATLANTIC MARGIN fields. They are avoiding talking about them to prevent the Scottish people from realising the wealth that lies under our water, so that they can hoodwink and rob us blind AGAIN. Nudge nudge wink wink.

    266. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Robert Louise@8.03pm

      Nail on head. If brexit was rushed through, which it may well be, Scotland will be out of the EU, quick as a flash. The unionists know exactly what that would mean for Scotland.

      N.Sturgeon has a job on her hands to outwit the bastrds for sure, but when the chips are down, that is what it is about right now.

      Taking nothing for granted, UKok have much to lose in this whole, sad sorry affair, basically they cannot afford to lose Scotland, they knew that on 1707, and they know it now.

    267. Tam Jardine says:

      OT

      It appears that IPSO have ruled in the Express’ favour in the complaint against the ludicrous, inaccurate and misleading article on the “widespread outbreaks of violence” that according to Siobhan Mcfadyen and the Express occurred before, during and after the indyref.

      I have not had the reply from IPSO on my own complaint but commonspace posts a response to someone else’s.

      Words fail me- https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9582/press-regulator-finds-favour-express-widespread-violence-indyref-claims

      I was asked 2 questions by IPSO- did I dispute that Police Scotland set up a task force to deal with incidents during the indyref (which I had not and do not) and did I dispute that there was violence and arrests on the 19th September (which I of course did not).

      Clearly if you are a newspaper you can print any old snish.

    268. galamcennalath says:

      Paul Kavanagh ?tweeted a couple of hours ago …

      “Definition of a Scottish Unionist – someone who complains about people who want to get out of the shite rather than complain about the shite.”

      … brilliant! That is one to remember!

    269. Iain says:

      @ Robert Louis
      I would hope our Nicola is too fly, to be fooled by yoon trickery.

    270. Valerie says:

      Just a comment about an emblem, if there was a campaign about refuting Tory foreigner policy.

      I think it would be divisive and wrong to use anything reminiscent of Fascism. Stars etc were being discussed on FB.

      I think it should be about Scotland, it is about pride in the country as a whole. My suggestion was using a thistle, a sprig of heather, anything that denotes Scotland.

      Just my thought. Would chime with today’s Twitter campaign, which really seems to have made an impact.

    271. manandboy says:

      With Thatcher, the N Sea bonanza seemed huge – and so it turned out to be. Since then The Westminster Tory/Labour /LibDems cabal have been feeding voraciously off Scotland’s natural resources.

      But there is a new bonanza – much bigger than the N Sea, and the English, again, want it all for themselves, just as they have always done during the predator colonial days of the British Empire. The recent past has been about the N Sea, but the future is about Claire Ridge and Lancaster west of Shetland

    272. heedtracker says:

      Brexit FT

      “UK government bars foreign academics from Brexit work, LSE claims

      Foreign Office insists dispute over consulting project resulted from misunderstanding

      The FCO’s insistence that the controversy was the result of a misunderstanding follows similar backtracking from senior government ministers following Ms Rudd’s speech. On a visit to Wall Street this week, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, sought to reassure American bankers that their London operations would not be affected by any immigration crackdown.”

      Its what they get the big bucks for.

    273. North chiel says:

      ” Joanne” at 0832 , my inference was more as regards
      ” holding the US jaickets” if you get my drift.

    274. Joannie says:

      Good point, North chiel, Westminster will be further up the US’s butt than ever now they’re about to leave the EU. I can’t see anything good coming from that.

    275. manandboy says:

      (cont’d) and all the as yet undiscovered fields on Scotland’s West Coast. Add the almost limitless renewable energy, deemed by some to be even more important than the North Sea – and, not forgetting the Artic scene with its huge potential, plus the new world of trading through the opening up of the artic sea routes. Fracking and coal gasification destroying our beautiful environment – who needs it?

      Scotland has natural wealth beyond our dreams. The English want to take it from us. If they get their hands on it, leaving the EU won’t bother them. Sadly, most Scots have no idea of of how rich we are. Quite the opposite, hence the cries from Scottish Unionists of ‘please, England, help us, we are so poor!

      This is the background to Brexit. Westminster wants to become like an oil rich gulf state on the back of Scotlands wealth.

    276. heedtracker says:

      Theories emerge for pound’s ‘flash crash’ against dollar
      Suggestions include ‘fat finger’ transaction and rogue algorithm for sterling’s overnight 8% drop and recovery 30 minutes later”

      Says rancid The Graun,

      “People around the UK have reported a series of sightings of people dressed as clowns frightening children, with six separate reports of “clown incidents” reported by Northumbria police in the past week.” Not including UKIPers in the EU parliament, where we’re expected to believe a scuffle can knock you unconscious and put you hospital for 3 days.

      Its hard to imagine the calm and collected reportage teamGB media would be like if the assorted UKOK catastrogfucks this week were SNP. Like the great Forth Road Bridge closure tragedy or BBC Scotland’s endless monstering of people like Michelle Thomson.

    277. manandboy says:

      (cont’d) Now, why do Labour, Tory and LibDem politicians in Scotland oppose Scottish Independence. Answer – Because of the gravy train system which ends in London, where all Scotland’s wealth ends up. Scottish careerist Unionist politicians understand perfectly how the Establishment works. They know the pot of gold lies in London. That’s where the big opportunities for serious money are – and they will do anything to get there – including selling their country out. Isnt it odd that in 80 years rulin Scotland , Scottish Labour never told us they were a Unionist party.

    278. Thepnr says:

      Regarding the timing of a Brexit after Art50 is announced. My own feeling is that it will be short and sweet as really there is very little to discuss given that the Tories have very clearly stated there will be no free movement of people.

      I reckon they will storm off in the huff after less than 6 months announcing how they will be doing their own deals with the ROTW.

      I think they will do this in order to try and wrong foot the SNP and a possible second referendum. This action if it happens will backfire big time. I think already the Tories have been seen this week without any clothes and many more peoples eyes in Scotland have been opened as to what they truly are.

      The Tories actually have out UKIPED UKIP.

      I’d really love to see a poll on Scottish Independence right now. Wouldn’t surprise me if it showed the highest ever support for Independence. Well nothing wrong with wishing it so.

      By the way, how many of you have heard that there were 3 Scottish academics awarded the Nobel Prize this week in Physics and Chemistry? The praise has been deafening.

      Must be something to do with living high up in a tenement.

    279. Papadox says:

      The only hope londinium has is to keep Scotland and its wealth firmly in its grip. IMHO they are setting NI up to bail out to the republic. Let Ireland deal with it and it will.
      That then leaves merry old Engerland to rape and plunder old scotia at its leisure with alacrity. Without Scotland’s wealth Engerland is a busted flush, it’s national debt is horrendous and its capacity to service that debt is zero never mind paying it down. We are going to be robbed with or without violence to keep londinium treading water and letting it pretend it’s still a force in the world. Maybe my imagination is running away with me but I don’t think I’m far off the mark. By then it will be to late anyway.

    280. heedtracker says:

      Only in Scotland do we get yoon culture sneering at people being nice to each. It must be unique.

      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      Bunty ?@BloodyPolitics 4h4 hours ago
      If only #wearescotland was started to celebrate diversity rather than a cackhanded attempt to say we are better than our neighbours.

    281. Iain says:

      The north sea is done, only 40years left. The future is the biggest oil field in the whole planet the Scottish Atlantic margin. Why do you think they are fighting so hard, if we were a basket case, we would have been dumped years ago. There is at least 200 years of exploitable oil, don’t let them fool you.
      Scotland is the potentially richest country in Europe.

    282. Iain More says:

      OT and Scary

      Well this is from out there. I just off the phone with Cousins Stateside and they informed me that they will be voting for Trump and that is despite my own tirades against him. They are perfectly sane and well educated and well informed people or so I thought until tonight.

      They voted for Bernie in the Democrat Primaries but their loathing for Hilary means they have made their minds up to vote for the Trump. I can see Trump winning it if this is what is happening under the radar of the MSM there and globally.

      One reason they give is TTP. Another reason is that they are less than impressed with UKOK crawling up Chinas butt over that Nuke Station deal. Oh and of course immigration. I could list other reasons but I think you can get the picture. This is beginning to look like the Yanks version of Brexit regardless of all those polls putting Clinton ahead.

      I think the Democrats have fucked up big time not picking Bernie. Electing Trump would be Brexit US style. I hope that I am wrong.

    283. heedtracker says:

      Nice to each other!

    284. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Valerie says at 9:28 pm

      Re: “Just a comment about an emblem, if there was a campaign about refuting Tory foreigner policy.”

      Personally I cant see why a white armband with #IAmScotland in Blue wouldn’t suffice.

    285. Capella says:

      British Expats sue Junker over BREXIT. I think I’ve seen it all now but I just know there’s more surreality to come!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37586587

    286. uno mas says:

      And then there´s the little problem with Gibraltar.

      Where will the Barabry macques go?

      Because they sure as hell won´t get visas to enter England!

      http://archive.is/1Dc6b

    287. heedtracker says:

      Most people up here have a pretty good grasp on how they do actually work Project Fear wise,

      UK Parliament
      Sponsored ·
      The UK Parliament makes law, debates the issues of the day, and checks and challenges the work of UK government. The UK Parliament affects everyone you know and everything you care about. The UK Parliament Outreach and Engagement Service is holding a free session on 18 October in Inverness for anyone who wants to find out more about how the UK Parliament works, and how to get involved.

    288. Brian Powell says:

      Capella

      They should be suing the UK Government, demanding what they plan.

      The EU won’t be putting forward proposals until they know what the UK Gov is doing.

      Another case of Brits abroad, shouting , ‘We’re British, and if you don’t understand we’ll just shout louder.”

      The UK Gov put this in motion they should answer.

      The Spanish have already said they expect the UK Gov to pay for medical treatment. After all one of the Brexit ‘arguments’ was health tourists.

    289. heedtracker says:

      Here’s that UK.gov invite to their do at Inverness. Still 25 tickets left. Wonder what’s dragged their delightful selves out of Whitehall up to their rebellious territories of their Scotland region and how much is costing austerity teamGB? You get a free union jack and there’s raffle at the end for a signed photo of PM Teresa May.

      https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/how-the-uk-parliament-works-inverness-tickets-25261300229

    290. K1 says:

      Actually Heed on this occasion I rather think relative to our neighbours we are a bit ‘better’ than them on the issue of ‘migrants/foreigners’. We included EU nationals in our Indyref, we voted to Remain by 62%, our FM immediately made sure she extended open ended welcome to those who have made Scotland their home after rUK voted Leave. The UK government did not include EU nationals in the Brexitref, informed us this week that they are going to use the ‘migrants’ as ‘cards’ in negotiations and that businesses have to list ‘foreign’ workers. On the back of that our FM issued a full blown GIRUTLOY ‘were no makin’ lists of ‘foreigners’ in Scotland and reiterated EU nationals resident in Scotland are not viewed as ‘cards’ by the SG and will remain welcome in the country.

      So in fact we are correct to take the ‘high ground’ on this issue.

    291. Sandy says:

      I wish people would get it into their head that it is not the English public who are disliked, it is the English establishment.
      I have worked/travelled abroad & have found that those countries who have had association with England one way or another, have little respect for it, especially in Western Europe. Only Portugal has a perceivable respect. I put this down to he fact that, historically, England sided with them during their conflicts with Spain.
      Even their German cousins have lost faith in them. Nazism is a penal offence there. They, at least, have understood what nazism can lead to.
      Best thing that can happen is that England be brought to heel. How about UN sanctions after they are thrown out of the UN?

    292. K1 says:

      From Faisal Islam’s twitter feed:

      Faisal Islam ?@faisalislam 4m4 minutes ago
      Germany’s @SZ now sees Britain “at forefront” of populist anti-migration forces including Trump, Le Pen, AfD, Orban

      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sueddeutsche.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Fkommentar-bye-bye-britain-1.3193091&edit-text=

    293. Proud Cybernat says:

      Blinkers hide stinkers…

      http://imgur.com/a/Ixaf3

    294. Liz g says:

      Anybody reading this going to the Inverness event,try asking them to explain how the official secrets act works.

      For example if there was a rumour about something..oh I don’t know….. mibbi a giant oil field.. and the knowledge of it was deemed an official secret how are those politicians who know the actual truth expected to respond to the public if asked about it directly ?
      Are they to lie or can they tell us they can’t discuss it?

      I’m sure there’s a whole load of awkward questions we could ask ,for as long as they are willing to stage these events.
      Hopefully they stick at this public meeting malarkey a bit longer than Labour did at the first Indy Ref.

    295. Meg merrilees says:

      Here’s an interesting read from Fraser Allander Inst. reported in Business Insider yest, apologies if it’s old news..

      http://uk.businessinsider.com/hard-brexit-scotland-wages-gdp-employment-england-migration-fraser-allander-institute-2016-10?r=US&IR=T

      A “hard Brexit” could cost Scotland up to 80,000 jobs, reduce GDP by £8 billion, and cut average pay by £2,000 ($2,542) a year, according to a new study by a Scottish think tank.

      But despite the gloomy outlook, the think tank is predicting a wave of migration into Scotland post-Brexit because the impact will be even worse in the UK.

    296. heedtracker says:

      K1 says:
      7 October, 2016 at 11:14 pm
      Actually Heed on this occasion I rather think relative to our neighbours we are a bit ‘better’ than them on the issue of ‘migrants/foreigners’.

      But its certainly a common yoon slam online at least, that Scotland has not got the same levels of immigration as England. So therefore there’s not the same antipathy that say UKIP racist creeps feed on up here.

      Its all about perception. There’s 3.5 million immigrants to the UK now which is fcuk all really compared to 55-60 million happy and glorious Brits.

      They wont get sent home. TeamGB needs them. UK.gov’s an elitist clusterfcuk bubble, fed by a vast array of hard core conservative private schools and Oxbridge, the higher up you get. But they know the economic value of so much hard grafting labour. And they know what the UK was like before they did get actually into the EU and struck not Scottish oil and gas ofcourse.

      Scotland’s effectively a lot more than just a troublesome region of their territory and they’re slowly starting to get itchy and scratchy about it. Constitutional change can have a massive roll on effect into power and privilege. We’re controlled and owned by some to the richest and most powerful in the world and not just JK Rowling or Billy Connolly.

      So watch out for UK.gov pulling power out of Holyrood in chunks over the next decade. BBC Scotland’s their most aggressive weapon against losing control up here but Brexit now gives the gits a lot more power to just forget about all kinds of EU law, starting with Human Rights. This is why Teresa made a big deal about keeping EU law in UK law. They wont and everyone knows it. Its just another tory con, a big one. A lot bigger than how they hate the sneering elite and up the workers and ofcourse we have government departments in Whitehall making lists now.

      We have one more shot at getting away from this union and if we lose…

      http://www.theguardian.con › World › Migration

      18 May 2016 – Number of people from EU countries working in Britain rises 224000 in a year … working in Britain has risen by 224,000 to a record 2.15 million over the … in Britain account for 10.6% of the workforce – an increase of just 3.5%

    297. K1 says:

      ‘…made a big deal about keeping EU law in UK law. They wont and everyone knows it.’

      True dat.

    298. call me dave says:

      ‘Greatest folly’ warning as Labour seeks hope in symbolic by-election defeat

      http://archive.is/zkcDW

      SNP’s MacNeil in line to chair new Commons committee on international trade

      http://archive.is/LYCzT

      Farron welcomes Sturgeon’s remarks on prospect of second EU referendum

      http://archive.is/PH3KG

    299. Arbroath1320 says:

      For those feeling a wee bit run down over Brexit … I’l just plant this wee video here. 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVy7faNKEtM

    300. MJT says:

      @Heedtracker

      I wouldnae worry too much about Scott Arthur. The vast majority of folks of either persuasion, and the dinnae kens have less than a scooby who the guy is.

      If the guy is talking shite and can be proved wrong, he should be proved wrong. If not…meh, gie the guy some love or ignore the fella. Some folks feed off the bile they get back.

      Anyone who can take the good intentions of others; in this case Ms Sturgeon with her recent speech, and see subterfuge and a thinly veiled message of criticism and superiority towards others; in this case England and her people…I mean there’s only so much one can do with that.

      The Great French essayist Montaigne said, judge people by their intentions, not their words or actions.

      So many of the semi-prominent to the prominent to the notorious scribblers, politicians and commentators, whose views are opposite to ours are there not because they are smart, talented, creative, forward thinking, fair minded or wise, but simply because they believe what they believe and are prepared to speak on’t.

      Chomsky talks about this in his famous essay, ‘What makes mainstream media mainstream.’ These people have their uses for the more powerful people whose interests they serve.

      But we can do better ourselves. We can be smarter, more efficient with our time and resources. If we work together, work harder. There’s not a lot in the Yes/No polls and we haven’t even got a semi optimal strategy. We’re barely 50% efficient. We haven’t scratched the surface of the talent and resources we have available. If we really get smart and get our shit together, we’d walk a referendum. Marginal gains. GTO. Mine the collective consciousness for the gold.

      More love and understanding, less hate. Let enlightened souls be enlightened and enlighten others. It can be done.

    301. Capella says:

      Brian Powell 10:58 pm

      They should be suing the UK Government, demanding what they plan.

      True. And they’re suing Junker at the European Court of Justice! The irony. Probably citing ECHR.

      There’s a wee picture of some of them sitting outside the Euro Bar in Benalmadena, Spain. 6 x 150ml bottles of beer 6 Euros. Of course, the £ is only worth 1.11 Euros now so that’s another thing to sue Junker for.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37586587

    302. call me dave says:

      @Capella

      Just read that a minute ago on auntie’s site, suing Junker at the European Court of Justice!

      Funny old world init!

      🙂

    303. Thepnr says:

      @Arbroath1320

      I really enjoyed that. Reminiscent of Spitting Image but with real people, some it seems have sense and it was nice to hear the applause at the end.

      Nice one 😉

    304. heedtracker says:

      MJT says:
      8 October, 2016 at 12:31 am
      @Heedtracker

      Good advice, great advice really.

      As UKOK neo fascism really gets going making lists of foreigner workers and their foreigner children, federal Germany’s also making a list but for completely different purposes.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/07/germany-to-require-firms-to-publish-data-on-gender-pay-parity

    305. ScottishPsyche says:

      The reaction of yoons to #wearescotland tells you so much about them personally and as a group.

      The lack of ambition to be a better society or to rise above the interchangeable UKIP/Tory hateful rhetoric is illuminating. Success must only be measured in wealth, status and power – anything else is not real or valid. Anyone purporting to ascribe to decent values is ‘virtue signalling’ and a hypocrite because…SNP.

      It must be exhausting to live in such a putrid fog of cynicism.

      The Faisal Islam tweets tonight are interesting as it shows that Amber Rudd can backtrack but the fact she spoke it out loud shows what the UK government are thinking. Every speech apparently had to be cleared by May first. No doubt Rudd will take the flak. Supposedly now EU nationals may all be granted residence after Brexit?

      A bit late though as the UK is not being seen as open for business or anything else.The pound is worth less than a euro in some exchanges. The UK has few experienced negotiators and will not take be taking advice from academics who are not UK citizens. Is it in case they give away the big negotiating strategy?

      The UK is now seen as closed off, close minded and will be shut out and shafted by the rest of the world.

    306. Thepnr says:

      So much for Brexit and a fall in the value of the pound making our exports cheaper and therefore more attractive. In fact the opposite has happened.

      We (UK) are hated and nobody wants to buy our goods.

      The UK’s deficit on trade in goods and services was estimated to have been £4.7 billion in August 2016, a widening of £2.5 billion from July 2016. Exports increased by £0.1 billion and imports increased by £2.6 billion.

      Our currency is now 16% less against the dollar than it was before Brexit referendum so that is even worse. Scotland is a net exporter, rUK is not. I pity the poor souls who think we are the ones that are too wee, poor and stupid.

      We might be wee but that is a benefit, plenty wee countries in Europe doing well, we are far from poor, our natural resources are a massive bonus and free of Westmister spending who knows how well we will do. Stupid?

      Well 3 Nobel prize winners in science this year as well as 5 Universities in the worlds top 200 kind of lays that one to rest despite what John Cleese may think.

    307. Petra says:

      @ Breeks at …. ‘Somewhere in Germany there must be some wrinkled old pre-war German veteran who watches his TV and sees the rude and brazen right wing extremists from a foreign country masquerading as politicians.’

      Good post Breeks and I’d like to add that somewhere in the UK some wrinkled old survivors from the Holocaust must have been sitting in front of their TV recently and sobbing from every pore in their bodies. Lying back wearily, hands clasped over their chests, heavy eyelids falling over clouded old eyes thinking back: remembering days from long, long ago. Remembering lost loved ones from long ago. Remembering …. fleeting, flittering, shutter-like suppressed memories of hell in earth. No doubt not speaking out now because they are too old, worn out and, well, know for sure that once again they will be powerless. Hoping someone will do the ‘job’ for them. Their young relatives?

      But what of the MANY (younger) Jews who live and work in the UK now? Those who are considered to be migrants? For example many holding key jobs politically and in the financial sector. What are they saying about this? Are they not extremely worried that someone may be snooping into their background? That they may be placed on ‘THE LIST’?

      The Jewish community, in the UK, were seemingly extremely worried about the so-called Labour Party anti-Semitic views. Great hoo-ha made about that. What do they think of Tory rhetoric / planned policies in relation to other members of our multi-cultural / religious society? I might be missing something here but I’ve not heard one whit from that quarter yet.

      Maggie Thatcher’s Cabinet was practically 100% Jewish. How are things looking now?

      I’m not bringing this up to stir the pot, BELIEVE me, especially as Jewish blood runs through my veins and my head is full of ‘hellish Holocaust stories’. I’m just asking as I’m interested to see, make real sense of, what’s actually going on in the UK right now.

      I reckon it’s very important that we all keep our eye on the ball. Very important as Theresa May is going to prove to be one of the most formidable opponents of democracy, EVER, and determined to quash Independence for Scotland with all of the MIGHT that she can procure: And that will be mighty for sure.

      We’ll have some battle on our hands of course, but we’ll still win for SURE.

    308. lumilumi says:

      grumble grumble I wrote something brilliant but disappared it into cyberspace by clicking the wrong field grumble grumble…

      Two points, one bad and one good.

      Firstly, I used to think our public broadcaste YLE was fairly impartial/unbiased, though a bit lefty-greeny western democracy leaning. But this week they had not a pip about Ms May’s or Ms Rudd’s speeches, or the reaction to them. Brexit Britain ought to be news but it wasn’t. Not even the lurch into fascism.

      On a more positive note. Tonight, friends got familiar with #WeAreScotland and thought it’s lovely… So what’s the problem with the UK? (Gaaaah!)

      One thing I learned today is that most people, even if intelligent and semi-literate about the broad strokes of history… Most people are bampots. I’m probably one.

    309. Petra says:

      @ Arbroath at 12:27pm …..

      Thanks for that. Absolutely brilliant.

    310. K1 says:

      Yeah nice one LA, put a wee smile on ma coupon 😉

    311. Thepnr says:

      @lumilumi

      Ah see, you have failed the first test for a bampot.

      Bampots never think they could be one. You fail the bampot test.

    312. lumilumi says:

      Thepnr, whaaat!? (wail) You mean I’m truly a bampot?!

      Or maybe a better bampot than any of the othe bampots? I could live with that.

    313. K1 says:

      If you can ‘think’ that you ‘could’ be insane, chances are your’e probably not. It’s those that ‘think’ they are sane that we have to worry about, cause they ‘think’ they ‘know’ what sanity is.

      Same thing applies tae bampots…ye cannae be one if ye kin even ‘think’ ye ‘could’ be one…simples 😉

      E.g. Labour councillors like Gallagher ‘think’ they are ‘rational’ and couldn’t consider for a moment that they were actually completely ‘irrational’ even with the evidence of their own words confirming said irrationality. So he can be classified as a bonafide ‘bampot’

    314. lumilumi says:

      @arbroath @12.47

      haha, nice, funny song, good perfrormers. But it sticks in my craw a bit. The message is that Scotland should save England from itself, and it ends with “united we stand, divided we fall, united we stand…”

      Just WHY should Scots be burdened with making England nicer if the English voters patently do not want it?

      Still, I admire the preformance and its wittiness at the Edinborough festival, when English arts and artists move northwards for a couple of weeks to mingle with some native talent. To bind us all in the union as “equal” partners. See? Even Scots can be successful at Edinborough festival fringe, it’s all a wonderful British thing, united we stand…

    315. Sandy says:

      Lumilumi.
      Tut,tut. English can’t spell “Burgh”. EDINBURGH.

    316. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – EU
      “All” I had left to do in that blog of mine was properly do the European Commission (EC) and that’s done now. Like the rest of the EU bit, some is lifted from the EU website, some is my own words, all provable with links.

      But it actually surprised me, I was fooled as well by the anti-EU media raving on about how undemocratic the Commission was, it could change the shape of bananas at will without any control blah blah. I thought it was a bit exaggerated, but in fact it’s TOTALLY WRONG.

      The European Commission creates policies and legislations, but the Parliament and Council vote on whether to implement them.

      On top of that, the Parliament has the ability to sack the President of the Commission, the Vice-President and all the 28 Commissioners, and appoints them in the first place.

      So the Commission is TOTALLY under control of the fully democratic parts of the EU – Parliament and the Councils (Ministers and heads of states).

      We really have been lied to about the EU.

      Either that or I’m thick as two short planks and am the only one who didn’t know all that.

      http://yesindyref2.wordpress.com

    317. K1 says:

      You’re not thick yesindyref2, I recall just after the vote speaking to a Leave farmer on Skye pointing out this very thing; that our UK government agrees legislation at the EU level and that they are not ‘unelected’ bureaucrats who make decisions.

      Deaf ears, no one was paying attention before or after the ref and as you say even a quick look at the structural layout of EU set up: Parliament/Council ‘voting’ on whether any legislation drawn up by the commission would be passed into law, reveals the democratic aspect very clearly. The UK has been a full participant in all EU laws. They may well have voted against legislation and not got their way on many occasions, certainly, but that is not the fault of the EU.

      I think actually the public has been badly served by the media for decades, it’s only now with computers and access that the public can now research themselves.

      Tragically that has it’s own downside as people seem hellbent on confirmation bias and will only look to find supportive information of their own preconceived and pre conditioned views.

    318. Marker Post says:

      @yesindyref2

      Fascinating and digestible read. Thanks!!

    319. K1 says:

      I’m following this Trump ‘tape’ thing of him being ‘who he is’, from 2005, carefully. It seems like a lot of republicans are ‘backing off’ supporting him. This seems to be gaining traction across the divide. He’s apparently going to be ‘taping’ an apology, to be released soon, something he apparently has never done on the campaign trail so far. (or perhaps in his life)

      Be interesting if this becomes what ‘undoes’ him. He’s going into the second debate wi Clinton on Sunday, I think, pretty sure she’s going to make hay big time on this.

    320. Breeks says:

      @Yesindyref2 4:46

      I often use the analogy of a golf club to put EU membership into perspective.

      When you join, its voluntary, but there are membership rules you are asked to abide by and joining criteria which you are required to have. You voluntarily agree to respect and be bound by these rules, but this concession does not in any way compromise your National sovereignty. That would just be plain silly.

      The club you have joined asks members to observe regulations common to all, to facilitate better enjoyment of the club facilities for all members. It lacks the jurisdiction to lay down the law about how you should conduct yourself at home, it merely asks club members to respect the rules of the club membership, and enter into the spirit of enjoying the actual game of golf in a conducive and friendly environment. It isn’t a battleground.

      Your capacity to be sovereign on your own time is none of their concern, unless your behavior is so boorish and outlandish that it brings the golf club into disrepute. Yet even in the darkest excess of repugnant behavior, the fullest sanction the Golf Club can suffer upon you is to terminate your membership and have nothing more to do with you, but your personal sovereignty from start to finish is your own affair and remains untouched throughout.

      It is fanciful hystrionics to blame the Golf club for ruining your life with its domineering dictats when all it asks of you is to observe a code of conduct you agreed to observe by choice.

      To blame the golf club for your own inadequecies or frustrations is a symptom of your own character defect, hardly the fault of the golf club.

      Of course, the EU isnt a golf club, and there are areas where a nations free will is constrained by rules, but that is not the same issue as your sovereignty being compromised. Sovereignty gives you the capacity to say no and walk away. If your sovereignty was compromised, you couldn’t do that.

    321. K1 says:

      Just had a look at your blog yesindyref2, as Marker Post says very ‘digestible’ read.

      Good layout, concise and informative. Excellent!

    322. Kevin Evans says:

      Yea I second that – very good read and info about how the eu works.

      And here was me thinking you were just a bam pot 😉

    323. lumilumi says:

      @sandy 4.46am
      Haha. I could plead it was a deliberate mistake to emphasise the “Engishness” or something but I was just trying to spell it the way it sounds. Edinboro. Embra, whatever. English (language) spelling is a mess anyway, most people in my country read the name and pronounce it in the German way Edin-BUURGH, so I was overcompensating, OK? 😉

      @ indyref2 – about the EU. Yes, you UK residents have been lied to about the EU. By the rabid anti-EU press, which the anti-EU powers that be have never worked very hard to correct. The few voices that have tried to tell the facts and the truth have been slammed down as unreliable and “unpatriotic” “sympathisers”. So we are where we are.

    324. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks all for the kind comments, I like the golf club analogy. I think what happened to the EU is that the member states were too intent on their own affairs, and didn’t really keep an eye on the EU, except for the big issues. Perhaps the EU parliament rubber-stamped proposals from the commission, and the commission, actually doing its job as laid out, went too far as any civil service would do if left to its own devices, with such as the whole harmonisation idea.

      But I think that’s changing, and maybe even Brexit and the threat of it for months or longer, has woken them up – it certainly should have done.

      @K1 thanks for that, I realised from what you said that I’d got so stuck in the detail I’d forgotten the point – to provide a counter to the media which makes assertions not based on facts. So I stuck a line in the introduction at the top to say that all information comes from the official EU website, and links are provided for them to check.

      Then it’s up to them to decide if they trust the official EU website.

      Probably the main target though, is YES voters who hate the EU. Perhaps if they read that page, they’ll hate it a little bit less!

    325. Ken500 says:

      The Non Dom, tax evader Press and their right wing associates want out of the EU so they can tax evade. For the Tory and associate multimillionaires tax evaders enough is never enough. They and their associates are wasting £Billions of taxpayers money on Hinkley Point and HS2 etc so they can plunder public money on consultancies and banking fees etc. Hinkley Point and HS2 are disasters waiting to happen and a complete waste of public money with no business case. The Tories are flying nuclear waste around the world. Trident will be going with Brexit. The US do not want it here. McMillian secretly planted it in Scotland. It is obsolete. A complete waste of public money.

      Investment is needed in Renewables. Wind, wave and solar are cheaper and safer. Electric cars are 4 times cheaper to run. Scotland was refused permission for CCS and the opportunity to access EU renewable grants by Westminster indecision. The Unionist have tried to destroy the Scottish economy. Wasting £Million/Billions of taxpayers money on grotesque projects, ruining city centres with no mandate, causing congestion and traffic chaos. Misusing public funding. Not funding essential services properly with plenty of funding. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      The Tories are trying to destroy the world economy again. Thatcher deregulated world banking and caused the banking crash. Blair and Brown did the same. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Costing the UK £trillions. They caused the migrant crisis in Europe. They Tories are now trying to ruin the world economy.

      Osbourne was taxing the Oil sector at 80% to 60% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. Scotland could have had nearly full employment. The UK tax is now 40% since Jan 2017. . Untaxed fracked Gas is being imported from the US with huge investment, aiding the US economy. The Tories are always harping on about being the 5th largest economy in the EU. Only in pop size. Add in the rest of the UK debt it is 16th in the world way down the list. The most unequal place in the world.

      Another four years of this Westminster mess and Scotland will be Independent.

      Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Please.

    326. bjsalba says:

      @Thepnr 7 October, 2016 at 10:14 pm
      It is perfectly possible that the Tories may flounce out of the EU negotiations, and in fact something similar has been suggested by some of the more radical Brexiteers. Look up John Redwood’s ideas on the Communities act.

      However, that may not solve their problems. See this:
      http://www.politico.eu/article/forget-brussels-brexits-toughest-battleground-is-the-wto-uk-theresa-may/

    327. lumilumi says:

      We’re 300+ deep into comments, so I think it’s okay to have a bit of a rant.

      Rev Stu and many, many commentators here talk about “unelected” MSPs, meaning the likes of Ruth Davidson or Murdo Fraser or Kezia Dugdale or… Well, you get the drift. List MSPs. As if they were somehow second-rate. Well, those named are, but not because of how they were elected.

      The SNP has formed Scottish Governments since 2007, on the strenghth of their LIST MSPs. Nicola Sturgeon started as a list MSP. Because the people in her constituency REJECTED her, an SNP candidate, but the region as a whole voted enough SNP to get this LIST SNP politician into parliament.

      That’s what proportional representation is like. In the UK parliament, elected solely by FPTP, a party can get an absolute majority with only c. 35% of the popular vote. The Holyrood system tries to correct this undemocratic problem with adding members according to popular vote (=proportional representation).

      The Holyrood system is not perfectly PR, it’s rigged towards a party that wins many FPTP constiuency seats – as can be expected from a system devised by Labour, which reigned supreme at the time, with LibDems as willing coalition partners. The SNP broke the system in 2011 and got an absolute majority. In 2016 it was back to normal, even though 200,000+ more voted SNP – but in the “wrong” places, so the SNP did not get an absolute majority. Which is only right. Less than 50% of the voters voted for them.

      PR parliaments almost ALWAYS result in coalition governments, like Holyrood did before the SNP got so overwhelming. But near 50% of the popular vote does give you a mandate for minority government. Usually PR countries abhor one-party governments. One-party state and all that. Prime examples: the US, the UK… North Korea.

      The problem with the Holyrood system, as I see it, is that the lists are predetermined by the parties. That’s why unpopular party leaders and party-faithful deadwood get in “by the back door”. (But you have to remember that enough people voted for the party, so wanted them there.)

      I might be biased but I think the Finnish “open list” system is better. Parties put up candidates but the ranking is done by voters. A party leader will put his/her name forward same as anybody else, if he/she and their party garner enough votes in the PR system, they’re through.

      In our fully PR open list system some party big guns fail to get elected = are rejected by the electorate.

      The problem that many Scots parliament and Scottish independent supporters – including Rev Stu – have is that they’re so ingrained with FPTP and one-party majority government political culture that they can’t see the advantages of true PR and coalition governments. They still think in the old way, one party (majority) government.

      I live in a country where we have, I think, about 10 parties in parliament. The government is formed by the 2-3 biggest parties plus maybe a small party or two to make the numbers in parliament. This is our PR political culture, the one I grew up with, and, to me, the UK system and the Scottish one, trying to break out but still fettered by the old UK system, just seem nonsensical. Sorry.

    328. Socrates MacSporran says:

      lumilumi @ 7.47am

      Kudos that man, one of the best posts I have ever read on Wings. A lot of sense in there.

    329. yesindyref2 says:

      @bjsalba
      Thanks for the WTO discussion link, it fits perfectly into my EU article under trade treaties.

      Another thing I added right at the bottom is a link to the survey by Alyn Smith MEP (SNP) aimed at the 38% Leave voters in Scotland, It actually has text boxes to enter in people’s own reason for leaving, rather than select a preset choice, none of which often fit properly.

      http://www.alynsmith.eu/consultation

    330. HandandShrimp says:

      Just in from watching the Scotland match in the pb with friends.

      Painful business watching Scotland play. That was not a pretty sight for the first 80 minutes. Any particular reason we did not play Anya and Maloney as the Lithuanian defence seemed to opt for karate every time they were faced an attack coming in at pace?

      That is a game we should have won.

    331. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi HandandShrimp.

      If they’d played the whole game like they played the last 15 minutes, we would have been top of the group.

      Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory rings bells…

    332. Hamish100 says:

      My Ayrshire contact sent me this.

      One of Cllr Gallagher’s mates sends this to all in Largs and North Ayrshire. https://www.facebook.com/The-UK-Union-Voice-1483848548517428/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

      The individual is dressed up in his HM Coastguard outfit.- What is it with unionists britnats that love uniforms so much?

      The silly beggar must have cheered when the Westminster government closed down Greenock coastguard and transferred to Belfast. I suppose there are more folk there who also enjoy dressing up in uniforms

    333. Greannach says:

      I don’t know which is sadder. That this person is so out of touch that he believes the tripe he’s tweeting or that he just wants to cause discord and trouble to up his party’s chances next year. Pretty poor either way. How are the mighty fallen.

    334. Chic McGregor says:

      The new ch 4’s rise and fall of Hitler programme was entirely coincidental a day after my post re the ‘Worker’s party’ analogy. I had no idea that programme was to be scheduled.

      Timing, as they say.

      Disappointing they had nothing in it re Hitler’s ‘laundered’ autobiography though, which was instrumental in getting him there.



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