Inching towards the truth
We remain perplexed, readers, by the apparent total lack of interest in the mainstream Scottish media about how many members the Scottish Labour “party” has.
Membership levels are a topical subject in the light of the extraordinary explosion in SNP and Green membership after the referendum, and with a general election just months away in which the make-up of Westminster’s 59-strong Scottish contingent could be crucial to the shape of UK politics for the next five years.
The number of members the main Unionist party north of the border can call on to knock doors and deliver leaflets will therefore be a very significant factor in the outcome. Yet on this morning’s Sunday Politics, when presented with an ideal and pertinent opportunity to question new Scottish “leader” Jim Murphy on the subject, Gordon Brewer didn’t even try to ask. What’s with that?
One possible explanation is that we’ve been told on social media – though haven’t yet managed to verify it – that the state broadcaster’s reporters James Cook and Glenn Campbell both claimed this weekend to have been informed that Labour has 14,000 members in Scotland, a number in excess of any estimate of the last five years.
(Lazy journalists often trot out a number of 13,000 which is erroneously based on a 2010 Caledonian Mercury article revealing that the party sent out 13,135 ballot papers in Scotland for the election of Ed Miliband. But that figure ignores the fact that ballot papers don’t equal membership – under Labour rules a single member can have as many as four, five or six votes, if they’re Parliamentarians and/or a member of trade unions – so we know membership must have been below that figure.)
That doesn’t square with an article in Friday’s New Statesman – a publication very close to Labour – which said the party “is believed to have no more than 10,000” members. That’s an estimate it also made five weeks ago, saying on 6 November that “the SNP now has more than 80,000 members, compared with less than 10,000 for Labour north of the border”, and had it been in error one imagines Labour would have been on the phone correcting it before now.
A few weeks earlier the Evening Times had been even more specific, citing “Sources in the party” who suggested membership “could be as low as 8000”. The figures in the two publications would be around the same ballpark as this site’s own crude guess of closer to 5000 last year, based on analysis of published membership income figures in Labour’s accounts.
But it wasn’t until a reader pointed us to another article that we looked at the Caledonian Mercury piece again, and this time a little lightbulb appeared above our head. The CalMerc story noted that Labour had been claiming 20,000 despite only sending out 13,000 ballot papers, and the discrepancy was accounted for by the presence of 7000 social-club members.
These are people who join “Labour” clubs – essentially pubs with function rooms – in towns across Scotland for the cheap beer and social events, but who aren’t actual members of the party and have no voting rights. If we assume that their numbers would be unlikely to be significantly affected by political developments (you don’t stop liking a pint just because you disagree with transport infrastructure policy), it would be reasonable to imagine that most of those 7000 were still there.
If we then include them in the “14,000” figure that Labour are apparently giving to journalists now, suddenly all the numbers start to make sense. If roughly 7000 of those are non-voting social-club members, that leaves 7000 “real” members – a figure which fits with the ones in the New Statesman, Evening Times and our own analysis.
It would also explain why Labour still refuses to release actual voting numbers for its membership elections, because admitting to having fewer paid-up political members than the Scottish Greens (8000) would be a crushing embarrassment.
(We can’t think of another election of any kind anywhere in Britain where the voting percentages are released but not the actual number of votes. It’s an extraordinary degree of secrecy, particularly as while refusing to publish member and trade-unionist figures Scottish Labour HAS revealed not only the numbers of Parliamentarians who voted in the three-section electoral college, but also the full individual details of who each MP, MSP and MEP voted for.)
It’s dismaying that if BBC journalists have been reporting the “14,000” claim [EDIT 1.37pm: They have] they haven’t sought to clarify such points. But for the first time it looks like we finally have a plausible explanation for the vast discrepancy between the oft-reported 13,000 figure and the revenue in the accounts which suggests far fewer.
If Scottish Labour has 7000 “real” members and 7000 social-club ones, all the data and the quotes in Labour-sympathetic publications back each other up. Everything works. The numbers fit, the income fits, and the embarrassed secrecy fits. Unless we hear anything from Labour to the contrary, we’re filing this one under “case closed”.
Can’t we get someone to join Labour and find out?
The way Labour get away with releasing percentages only is incredible and just shows how compliant our media is. The Sunday Herald and The National should be pushing this, and using the 7,000 figure as official until Labour release the real figures.
Although it might be the secrecy in this case is more about hiding how few trade unionists bothered to vote.
It’s probably less than 5,000 now.
TORY LABOUR, SAME OLD GAME, LABOUR TORY, BOTH THE SAME
“Can’t we get someone to join Labour and find out?”
You wouldn’t find out just by joining. Jim Murphy himself claimed not to know in the Sunday Herald a few weeks back.
Shake my hand …… Eh! Aye right!
Neil ponders the future. 🙁
Excellent piece….again.
How many of the 7000 are Labour activists?
How many are Labour councillors?
How many are dead and still on the register?
How many are in care homes?
How many stopped paying subs but never actually cancelled membership?
How many care about Scotland?
Maths Labour/Unionist style. Get a figure and double it. Labour/Unionsts can’t count and don’t even know how the Barnett Formula works. Just useless.The lying Labour/Unionist Mafia. PR companies pay ‘supporters’.
I’d be very suspicious of any figure that happened to “leak” just now. Jim will want a low baseline to trumpet his advances from.
@handclapping
Murphy is buying his Labour stocks pretty much at the bottom. It cannot go too much lower. But in the stock market they say never try to catch a falling knife.
Great read on page 2 of Sunday Herald today – How is Murphy get to Holyrood?
How wonderful to have a Scottish paper with that front page.
Eventually journalists in the BBC and other MSM will be shamed into asking Labours Scottish branch the right questions.
Has anyone noticed how Katy Clark kept her hands firmly clasped and eyes down when the trusties in the front rows were on their feet and applauding – dissent and schisms already?
And Page 4 and 5 worth a larf
This makes Labour and the Unionists ever more dependent on their them even more reliant on their control of the BBC and the MSM.
How long can they hold on?
If anyone is aware of a campaign(s) to prevent Murphy conning Scotland (with his 180 degree policies swivel and new ‘fairness for Scotland’ rhetoric), please let me know.
I am ready to participate, donate or collaborate in any initiative(s) designed to prevent Murphy’s hot air re-inflating the sad rubber prophylactic that is Labour Party Scottish balloon.
Murphy is Westminster in a particularly unsubtle disguise. Sent in as a ‘Labour Champion’ to divert the rebels.
On the face of it, it is utterly astonishing that Labour’s voting results are being kept secret AND the media are being so blatantly compliant that this goes unchallenged. Of course it’s being done to hide just how small a party they have become. If ever you needed an example of an establishment wide conspiracy, this has to be it.
While the subject seems almost trivial, the scale of the cover up is visible for all to see.
[…] We remain perplexed, readers, by the apparent total lack of interest in the mainstream Scottish media about how many members the Scottish Labour “party” has.Membership levels are a topical subject in the light of the extraordinary explosion in SNP and Green membership after the referendum, and with a general election just months away in which the make-up of Westminster’s Scottish contingent could be crucial to the shape of UK politics for the next five years, the number of members the main Unionist party north of the border can call on to knock doors and deliver leaflets is a very significant factor. […]
Sunday Herald is full of supporting articles for YES and a better Scotland.
Although McWhirter did state that Murphy has bags of charisma…. Iain you have been moving in some funny circles these days.
Yet on this morning’s Sunday Politics, when presented with an ideal and pertinent opportunity to question new Scottish “leader” Jim Murphy on the subject, Gordon Brewer didn’t even try to ask. What’s with that?
Why did Brewer not ask him why id he wants to lead Scotland he doesn’t want control over minimum wage or living wage or full economic levers?
Perhaps even pro unionist journos know they won’t get a straight answer from Murphy.
It’s well known that Jim Murphy doesn’t wash his hands after using the toilet.
The following voting pattern gives around the correct percentages and totals 5000. It looks like a reasonably accurate guestimate:
Jim 3021 60.42% remember waiting of 1/3 to 20.14%
Neil 1634 32,68% remember waiting of 1/3 to 10.89%
Sarah 345 6.9% remember waiting of 1/3 to 2.3%
TOTAL5000
Stu… How about a one of Crowdfund for a half dozen billboards around the major cities.
With a list of Scottish Parties and total membership numbers… Making the point that Labours is an estimate because they are embarrassed to publish.
I’ve heard from a few folk who are SNP memebers that they got a vote in this.They said they had opted out of giving money to the red tories yet they still got a vote.
@ericmac – re ‘bags of charisma’ , he might have meant compared with JoLa
The justifications for my cancelled TV licence just keep coming.
Covers my various subscriptions and donations.
ericmac
Maybe he meant he has lots of Avon Charisma Perfume left over from his student part time undeclared door to door sales job……… that lasted 9 years
There are a fair few problems with the election anyway, before you start getting into actual numbers. I got a vote, despite not having been a member of the union concerned for more than two years. There’s probably a whole heap of fun available for any investigative journalist who cares to start really digging.
“the number of members the main Unionist party north of the border can call on to knock doors and deliver leaflets is a very significant factor.”
Will they not just bus/train them in again like at the Referendum.
Excellent work, Rev. It does all make sense now. This surely means they are utterly finished in Scotland now, on some timescale – they cannot fight campaigns on those numbers. The asymmetry with the other parties will be even more marked in activist terms – Greens, socialists and SNP are all drawn from a younger demographic.
Post independence their situation becomes even more dire – with the umbilical to London severed, it’s game over for the Red Tories.
Well, the reason the BBC etc. do not ask for this info, is they know the truth and wish to protect THEIR party from the truth come hell, high water and a referendum. BBC Scotland is the unofficial mouthpiece of UK Labour (Scottish branch). I urge anyone who cares about exposing the links between BBC Scotland and SLAB to contribute to G A Ponsonby’s ‘How the BBC Stole The Referendum’ crowd-funding currently on Indigogo right now. This book promises to expose the links between BBC Scotland & Slab in full detail which is long overdue. THis needs to be published before May next year, before BBC Scotland embarks on Round 2 of killing off the truth in Scotland to protect Slab. Also listen to Derek’s Bateman’s latest podcast with Mr Murray (ex UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan), to see how the Britnat Establishment ‘controls’ MSM.
@bjsalba says: (14 December, 2014 at 1:47 pm)
“This makes Labour and the Unionists ever more dependent on their them even more reliant on their control of the BBC and the MSM.”
Jim is doing fine from them. See the BBC:
link to bbc.co.uk
Jim Murphy: ‘I’ll be an MSP by 2016’
Not one mention of the YouGov poll of SNP 47% and Lab 27%, with the Guardian article of Murphy saying that Lab won’t lose a single seat to the SNP.
Omission of Westminster lies by the BBC is nothing new, but something we need to keep highlighting.
It will be immaterial how many members Labour have in Scotland Murphy will not alter the the voting intentions for the 2015 GE
First comment. A bit nervous but here goes.
A very good idea for an election poster/flyer would be a photo of a que of people waiting outside a food bank with the caption..
VOTING Labour isn´t working!
What do I do now? Oh yes of course, click submit co..
It wouldn’t surprise me if those social club members are also down.
Many walked away from Labour because of support for Tory Britain, and any self-respecting ones would have walked away from their venues as well, beer prices notwithstanding.
whats that saying? When there is any doubt, there is no doubt
Dear ericmac…. I can’t help but agree with you re. the unsublety of Peem Murphy’s Westmeenster stench. (…and how much does they suits cost? Are they from a Scottish tailor?… I think not. Are they egg-repellant? Will Scottish Labour Party be funding next years wardrobe?) But slick and greasy presentation aside, once again the BBC and it’s Scottish Politics presentation really needs a kick in the licence fee…. Whit a bunch o’ sookie pappies! Do we get fooled again?
Naw naw! That’ll jist no dae a’taw. (and the best thing that ever happened to the SNP is Jackie Baillie…whit a bonus!)
Gallowglass says:
“Can’t we get someone to join Labour and find out?”
What, and double their membership?
Do the Labour Party have to produce accounts to show what income that they have generated and from which sources?
Someone must be keeping count of Dud Smurphy’s Expenses?
If only these guys dared to have a meeting where the electorate,
that they say they care about and listen to, could actually ask them a question.
They again follow their Blue Tory Masters lead in only speaking to a room full of invited Zombies and their propaganda pals at BBC.
More fraud. If you ask them formally, you’ll be bullies and harassers and nat mobs.
This whole weekend has UKOK stank, stunk, stinky? Its wreaked of the worst teamGB hysterics since their two week vote NO or else run up to 18th Sept. We’ve all seen Murphy’s hysterics when asked a simple question link to wingsoverscotland.com
As evil and cruel AlicSamin said to blue not red tory girl Theresa May when she displayed her stupidity with real world stuff at some award ceremony lately, I hope Murphy’s finger’s never on that button. Actually it might be if future GB PM Murphy does somehow save Labour in Scotland from oblivion next May. eek!
The man behind Murphy.
In an email to the then Labour MSP Karen Gillon, who was about to make a trip to Sweden, McTernan wrote:
“If you’ve not been to Sweden before, I think you’ll really like it – it’s the country Scotland would be if it wasn’t narrow, Presbyterian, racist etc. etc. Social democracy in action.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
Throughout the referendum campaign, the unionist side (pariticularly Labour) were constantly telling us the Yes side weren’t giving us all the figures.
So come on Slab, lead by your own example and tell us how many, or how few, members you have.
@Uno Mas
Well said. Dive in. Keep them coming. 🙂
What’s to question? I said all along that Murphy is the British State’s ‘chosen one’. Rightly or wrongly, Cameron/Milliband and the City of London figured he was the one with the best chance of conning the rump of Labour drones who’d vote for Labour even if it was a stinking cadaver leading it, and the bitter together tories/loyalists etc. who hate Nats with a vitriolic and visceral hatred.The ones who find the ‘chosen one’ to be plausible and palatable to their narrow self-interests.
Brown and Darling were fit for purpose for the REF. Now disappeared into pampered oblivion, time for Cunning Jim to step up to the plate and deliver phase two.
Why else have the msm focused on the sham ‘election’ of SLAB Branch Manager? and trying to maintain the façade of a ‘contest’, whilst always pushing Murphy’s ever changing agenda. A naive first year political scientist would have destroyed his contradictory and meaningless pronouncements and therefore humiliated and exposed the utter expediency of his motives and his total lack of principles.
But this is the Scottish colony, lied to daily by every newspaper bar one and carpet bombed with slanted political narrative from breakfast time to night. A narrative that has never ceased since 2007 and will reach a crescendo by May of next year.
The collusion about how ‘many’ members SLAB have. Are we surprised? As long as we remember that all we are receiving from the msm is strategic outcome of the Brit agenda of suppressing the Jocks once and for all, then forget about accuracy, forget about truth and factual reporting. What we are seeing and hearing is the contrived circus..the façade that hides the real ugly face of British Imperialism in action.
If they only have 7,000 voting members then they could actually have less members than the Greens. Back in the 50s Labour had around 100,000 members in Scotland.
“You wouldn’t find out just by joining. Jim Murphy himself claimed not to know in the Sunday Herald a few weeks back.”
No, but if there was a little fifth column snooping at branch meeting level you might start to pick up a bit of an idea.
Unless they really don’t talk about it, which I doubt, and I’m not sure Murphy not wishing to let the cat out of the bag would indicate it is possible.
He has a vested interest in keeping it quiet surely.
Excellent article Rev, thank you.
_________
Vronsky says:
“they cannot fight campaigns on those numbers.”
Oh yes they can because they have something far more powerful than the potential near 100,000 footsoldiers of the SNP and they used it with devastating effect throughout the referendum – the media.
The filthy corrupt Unionist media has destroyed Scotland and will continue to do so until we do something about it.
link to labourlist.org
Must be mistaken?
when the announcement was made interesting who jumped up clapping eg Curran and others sitting on their hands before reluctantly standing up eg Douglas Alexander
Labour Party believer’s in Scotland number less than 0.01% of the total electorate. In contrast 30% of Scot’s believe in aliens.
Membership numbers – Jim Murphy himself claimed not to know…a few weeks back.
Aye Right.
The picture with this article is a beauty, just hope some behavioural analyst will contribute a reading. Obvious ones are a glum Katy Clark not bothering to stand nor applaud. Sarah Boyach’s “smile”. Kezia Dug gazing up like a puppy. Murphy’s priorities – camera before goodwill towards his opponent, and colleague(?). Female dress attire? Stairhead and Duggy vs Clark and Boyack.
They can all look forward now to sitting through Murphy’s big meeting – his call to arms – for unity, commitment, and singleness of purpose – or else. Hydro available?
I do’nt think wee JoLa’s finished with the Eggman yet, she does’nt strike me as the hand of friendship “Betraying me is OK” type of person…maybe it’s just me but, i’ve got a wee feeling.. he he he
[…] Inching towards the truth […]
One option is for a high profile opponent just to casually & constantly assert 7k, until labour can clearly disprove it. Eg: ‘Analysis shows blah blah 7000 members blah blah’
We are too nice.
@ uno mas
Brilliant idea. Welcome to comments!
@uno mas.
Bring it on, you’re very welcome, the more the merrier…
A “fresh start”, don’t tell me that Joke, Wendy, Subway and JoLa have been doing it all wrong and me voting for them and keeping the Tories out of No.10 … still if its Jim’s say so …
I mean they couldn’t be wrong again could they? That would be 5 times in a row … Do they deserve another chance or are they just chancers?
About Labour, but a bit off-topic I confess, I was delighted I managed to get the main comment piece in the Mail on Sunday today, occupying the whole space of the leader page other than the leader itself
link to dailymail.co.uk
uno mas
Big welcome and brilliant idea. Very retro 🙂
Who’s the super mario character standing clapping behind Katy Clark? I’ve seen this clown a few times sitting directly behind JaBal at FMQ’ nodding and fidgeting around like one of those silly wee plastic fairground dogs you get for the dash of your car.
I wonder if they are also claiming a number of us who wrote with regard to some of their erroneous statements and were subsequently contacted in case we were interested in joining, as if.
Imagine it’s 70s,80s,90s or early 2000s,and the internet wasn’t as widely available as it is now. All we would have to enlighten us would be newspapers and state broadcasters.
Bit different now.
All the Better Together boots on the ground round our parts during the indyref were posh Tory ladies in tweed, we didnt even get the ill-informed Labour teenagers from south of the border, bussed up for the day.
Wonder who Labour will have for the May election? Can’t see them having any people presence at all. they will be relying on the increasingly shrill Daily Wreckord and BBC Scotland who are all they have left, and both are increasingly drowned out by all the other pro-UKIP, anti-Miliband, right wing UKOK media.
PS, Labour vote-no old guy in the pub last night says he’s sick hearing about Murphy and increasingly impressed with Nicola. I have a new target for conversion 🙂
Stoker
That is the list MSP for Glasgow Hanzala Marik.
Malik – must get a secretary who can type better than me. 🙂
The lies of labour first is what they say in scotland then what they do in reality ie did not vote
link to scottishlabour.org.uk
link to publicwhip.org.uk
Are all of the branch office members not in the picture above ?????
@ Craig Murray
Your piece was linked to in the previous thread. Great advance getting it published.
BTW we normally archive links to MSM to avoid subsequent clicks. Here’s the archive link to the one above:
s://archive.today/SoZlC
The general consensus seems to suggest 7000ish BUT I believe with murphy arriving, there will be a brief honeymoon period and membership will shoot up. Immediately, the media will be filled with labours rise from the death bed to try and generate a further boost to bring their numbers up. All of which is very sad, think of the labour party in days of yore, when they were the only party of opposition and nepotism seemed to be the order of the day, where, often it was sais that you could put up a cabbage as a labour candidate a get elected by weight of votes. This was a terribly depressing time because, simply put, it was a two party state. Gradually this changed as people saw the SNP as a viable party( and hopefully the GREEN party will follow). But common to both the Greens and SNP, we’ve always known membership numbers, and as ericmac has pointed out labours emembership is very suspect.
Personally delighted with outcome.
Murphy is a divisive character and will split the Labour party in two. He cant hide his right wing credentials no matter how hard he tries.
At election times it is the unions that do the door knocking for Labour, cant see them supporting an arch Blairite.
even if there had been no indyscotref, i would never vote for lab or lib’s ever again.
i have never voted tory in my 44yr voting life.
what has happen makes me even more determined to ensure that lab libs or tories can never be in a position to blight lives again.
the snp, scotgreens, ssp, and other democratic socialists, deserve our vote’s even without their stunning contribution to the indyref campaign.
Oops
link to archive.today
they are desperately trying to get membership up before they are forced to answer the question
join for a fiver and vote on the leaded etc seem to be desperate measures to up the membership
Griminish says:
14 December, 2014 at 1:56 pm
Any mathematicians out there? I read this earlier and now that we have percentages to 2 decimal places on a number in the thousands , vote divisions in thirds and weighting there must be only a few real numbers that fit. If it can be proved then it will show them up for the incompetents they are.
Griminish at 1.56 pm
The following voting pattern gives around the correct percentages and totals 5000. It looks like a reasonably accurate guestimate:
Jim 3021 60.42% remember waiting of 1/3 to 20.14%
Neil 1634 32,68% remember waiting of 1/3 to 10.89%
Sarah 345 6.9% remember waiting of 1/3 to 2.3%
TOTAL5000
As for the truth, I doubt we’ll ever get to hear it. A bit like their Truth Team…
Jim Murphy ‘aiming to cooperate more with SNP’
link to scotsman.com
‘I’ll sort out arrogant and gutless Salmond’
link to dailymail.co.uk
I see the ‘co-operation’ lasted very long!
Doug McGregor
my guesstimate is around 5000 member’s.
Re all the media stuff Murf might have..Maybe?..We’ve got a few bob more than we used to have, give or take 1000,000 of us now, thats a fair wee kitty..Meeow! We are all Alex Salmond..hell hath no fury like a wee man warned..
Thanks for that clarification, Marcia.
______
BBC reporter James Cook yesterday stated that Slabber have 14,000 members – he knows this because an unnamed Slabber source told him so.
Surely James Cook must realise that if you repeat a lie you will become known as a liar.
James Cook, BBC reporter, you are a liar working for corrupt organisations with absolutely zero credibility.
Excellent article and analysis.
BBC Scotland will be now be full tilt promoting what appears to be New Jim and his crusade to take OneNation British (but patriotic Scottish) conservative Labour back to its old social democratic roots.
This is back to everything he has shown no signs ever of actually believing in.
I’m sad to say they will likely be quite effective in this.
What would happen if someone submitted a Freedom Of information request for paid up membership numbers? Are political parties outside the FoI rules?
Not counting those Tame Union members who d not know about contracting out and who are often counted as Labour Party members. My son received a Three Stooges ballot paper from USDAW and he is not, never has been and never will be a member of the Lumpen Pairty.
Surely Skeletor’s hot-air about being his own man, not taking orders etc constitutes a form of mutiny? Is it perhaps a kind of UDI?
In any case, Ed Milliband had better bring him in for a dressing-down pronto.
Some figures were made public here:
link to linlithgowgazette.co.uk
SNP membership has risen again since then – by roughly the same number as the entire Labour branch mentioned in the article.
I still get mail from the labour party addressed to someone who used to live in my house more than 14 years ago. (No personal connection) Obviously that person is no longer a paying member or presumably their records would have been updated. I wonder how many more ghosts are in that party?
@ NewportDee (3.14pm).
Try it, see what you can unravel.
What’s to lose?
link to whatdotheyknow.com
Fred Blogger , Maybe somebody could persuade the world’s leading sephologist to work it out for us ( to save him the work , he could just ask his branch secretary)!
Seriously , given the data , a number cruncher should be able to prove the real number of votes cast ( nb this is not the membership number) and then some accurate numbers could be produced which SLAB would be obliged to reject/confirm. Numbers don’t lie.
Does Murphy know where the Scottish Parliament is?
When the Land reform proposals hit Holyrood soon , the Scottish electorate will really find out who is on the side of the people , Murphy is a paid up establishment type who will have to be on the wrong side of this , call him out at every opportunity.
@Uno Mas 2.11. Welcome to the mail room nae stamps needed fur posting.
Doug McGregor
yes, labour are seriously goosed, or words to that affect.
🙂
Well worth a look. Lots of information. Seems to me a membership of around 7000 fits.
link to betternation.org
If Labour don’t know how many members there are how do they know Jim really won. Percentages mean nothing and a breakdown of actual votes cast should in any democratic process be provided to those who voted.
My wife is a member of a trade union and recently advised them she did not want monies to be paid directly to the labour party but would like to direct her money to a more worthwhile political party. She was advised that the trade union could only back the labour party and could not back any other political party or individual. Despite opting out she still received a vote in the leadership election with the proviso that she we would be reinstated if she utilised her vote. Within the letter they were keen to point out how little the amount was and it tried to persuade her to rejoin the supposed scottish labour party. She obviously declined. So if anybody did use a vote they will need to opt out again as they will automatically be re-affiliated.
I Like Ericmac idea
Stu… How about a one off Crowdfund for billboards around the major cities.
Labour’s large majority seats are in Central Belt and Polls suggest they’ll keep those so there won’t be a SNP wipeout we wish. Labour figures with strike through in descending figures (lies) Showing membership numbers of such a decline could persuade some more former Labour voters to abandon ship.
I note that they include those eligible to vote in the leadership election. My wife was sent a ballot due to her union membership, she’s not a member and never has been. Labour may have been happy with small, controllable groups of members in the past (it helped head office push Jim into place) but it is now biting them on the rear end.
It is interesting to consider who will lead uk Labour after May, I believe Dave will be PM so who will Murphy’s boss be?
This general election is one Labour cannot afford to lose, sadly experience suggests whatever happens Scotland is likely to lose out, always happens. We are an after thought unless we vote SNP.
Rev Stu,
Surely there must be some Alert Readers in SLab branch office who would be able to send you the up to date figures.
On Scot goes Pop a commentator was querying the missing two years of Murphy’s Strathclyde University life – 86 and 88 when he was due for ZA conscription.
There must be some Wingers out there who came across him during that time?
By coincidence I was at Strathclyde Uni at the time and never came across him.
As a “professional student” I did come across guys who had been in Uni for years. However 9 years and no degree to show for it, is very, very exceptional !
Was he really there when he says we was?
Anyone know how to get the matriculation records for Jim Murphy at Strathclyde Uni – FOI perhaps?
Even non-affiliated Unions like PCS still give ‘campaign grants’ to ‘sympathetic’ nominees.
You can’t opt out of it, and you can scream to the high heavens that it isn’t right and barely advertised to members.
But they won’t give a shit.
The trade union movement is completely corrupted.
Will the BBC play along with New Jim ignoring British Labour policy and thereby directly challenging Ed Miliband’s leadership of said OneNation club?
I think they will and enough idiots will buy into it too.
Come the GE, don’t see how they can bus folk from the south to pound the streets, because they surely have to put in hard work south of the Border.
I would think any support will come from the OO and BNP, as we saw at the referendum.
@revstu
Murphy must have been economical with the truth on that question as his campaign have been sending out snail mails to home addresses and phoning rank and file Labour members – so all Murphy had to do is count the number of names on his mailing list 🙂
@Chris
I think for the general election it will be hard to bus Labour activists to Scotland as they’ll all be needed to stave off disaster for them in English consituencies. The Holyrood election in 2016 may be different though as there’ll only be some council elections in England that day.
It must be CHRISTMAS Scotlands be-decked wie some Big Red Cherries and yous know what happens tae Low Lying fruit,keep on picking folks this is wan scab we dont want to get better.
Your earlier piece about the young lady who joined in early November along with her Mum just so that they could vote for Jim Murphy suggests that recent members may have had a crucial significance in winning the vote for the membership college. If there are only 7000 members and Murphy got about 60% of this college, it’s entirely possible he has been recruiting Orange Order and BNP affiliates to win.
I didn’t believe the indyref was lost due to 400,000 fake votes, but I do find it possible that with such small numbers Murphy has got some unsavoury types to join the party just to vote for the Union.
Will the North UK branch of the Labour Party be printing its own manifesto?
I think not.
The real question is did Murphy get more than 40% of those eligible to vote?
More popcorn!
@ Murray McCallum.
That’s presuming Murf wants to be First Minister, i kinda think Murf’s got his eyes on a bit bigger job, like Miilisecond’s eh? Save Scotland first, then all hail the conquering Eggman..The new Blair???
@ericmac,
I too was a bit taken aback at Ian McWhirter’s comments on Murphy.
There are many charter descriptions which could apply to Murphy. Charisma should never be one of them.
His personality is well documented. His politics are what will be his downfall. Right wing Blairite and lying opportunist not to mention gross trougher, trident supporter and student fees suporter. The man is a Charlton.
Murray McCallun if Murph did take the leadership from Milliband there is no way he could wear the ulimate crown as PM,who says so Lord ST John Stevas ok ok ah know he,s deed but ah hiv ah weedgie board.
One of the saddest aspects of this past campaign has been the new & first-time voters. We did everything we could in Dundee to convince these people that, this time, their vote would really make a difference. That it would count. It was fantastic to see political engagement in the eyes of the very poorest in our society. We got them registered and they put their X in the only good place.
After the result came through those same people were angry. Very angry. They assembled in City Square to protest and let their feelings be known. I know that my colleagues have been doing the rounds delivering thank you leaflets to those shattered people.
If we don’t keep those same people engaged in this they’ll disappear through the cracks again. Many already have. They’ll never vote again. They’ll tell their weans it’s all pointless, that politicians are all the same. Their weans will likely never vote either.
We lost the referendum to the BBC, nobody else. It always used to make me laugh when I heard politicians bemoaning low voter turnouts. Why would that concern them? They get the job and the salary and the expenses even if only one man & his dug votes for them. As long as it’s one more than the other guy.
FPTP is a corrupt electoral system and yet, we’re now supposed to embrace it to target Red Tories at the next General Election. Why? Might it not make more sense to not stand for it at all? Let Labour win the majority of Scottish seats, it’ll likely still not be enough to stop the Tories in England out-voting them. England is a right-wing country. Even if the General Election turns out to be a closer race than I would put money on it won’t make a difference because UKIP are just Tories in disguise. There’s no way they’d allow themselves to enable a Labour victory. It’s in the bag for the Tories.
I know that’s a helluva gamble to some people but think of the up-side if I’m right. What would Labour’s tactic be then? It wouldn’t be us Nazis who let the Tories in. It would demonstrate once and for all how utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt the UK is.
So if they have less than 10,000 members that means that although they’re decreasing in number there are still more Jedi Knights (11,700) in Scotland than Labour members (2011 Census).
@Stoker
“BBC reporter James Cook yesterday stated that Slabber have 14,000 members – he knows this because an unnamed Slabber source told him so.”
I wonder if he’s ever been tempted to buy a bridge?
calling all poets can you help me, I need a christmas poem toot suite any takers (must be clean) prefarably not a limerick 🙂
sorry rev
@Doug McGregor
“Any mathematicians out there?”
Based on those figures, the most likely membership is precisely 5,000 voting 3021, 1634 and 345. However any integer multiple of 5000 will also give a mathematically feasible result, so for example 10k, 15k, 20k are all possible. 5k is the number supported by other arguments.
Makes me weep with anger and outrage. My grandfather’s 2 brother’s gave their lives for this lot. What a government. Why oh why did Scotland reject independence?
November 2014; The Tower of London stands accused of ‘crass insensitivity for allowing nearly 200 arms industry weapons manufacturers, including senior officials from the Ministry of Defence and foreign security companies, to enjoy Champagne and dine on a ‘ high-end ‘ £240-a-head-three-course dinner, (£3000 a table) in the Tower of London whilst the WW1 poppy memorial made up of 888,246 poppies – one for each Commonwealth serviceman and woman killed in WWI was still in place.
link to fchornet.com
I picked up somewhere that Labour’s paid up political membership in Scotland has dropped below 4,000 but I can’t remember where I heard that.
If that is the casee they not only have fewer members than the Greens but they probably have fewer members than Scotland’s Tories.
It adds to my suggestion that the SNP is not beating Labour in Scotland – in many areas it has replaced it.
Labour Hame was offering an immediate membership and vote for leadership positions for £5 a couple of weeks ago.
If anything like the above is the case the Labour Party in Scotland has actually ceased to exist in any meaningful sense and the media is providing an illusion.
This has to be exposed.
It’s gloves off time. Let’s start the job by destroying million pound Murphy
Jedi Knights cannot vote after they die – Labour members can
Pretty good piece on Sky news re SNP taking labour votes. Also nice bit show packed hall in Aberdeen and wee chat with Nicola.
My sums above asssume one vote – one member, which of course isn’t true – it’s ballots, as the Rev points out. Can we establish how many members have more than one vote, and what that surplus quantity is?
THE BBC LIEBORE PARTY
4th November 2014
BBC Political Correspondent Glenn Campbell states that
Slabber “have a membership of over 13,000.”
19th November 2014
BBC Chief Political Correspondent Laura Kuenssberg states that
Slabber “have a membership of fewer than 17,000.”
13th December 2014
BBC Scotland Correspondent James Cook states that
Slabber “have a membership of 14,000.”
13th December 2014
BBC Political Correspondent Glenn Campbell decides to contradict
his previous lie and state that Slabber have 14,000 members.
14th December 2014
WOS Journalist and Owner Stuart Campbell reveals why he thinks
the true figure of Slabber membership could be closer to 7000.
I know who i believe and he doesn’t work for the BBC Labour Party.
ronald alexander mcdonald says:
14 December, 2014 at 3:34 pm
Does Murphy know where the Scottish Parliament is?
“Oh shite!” It’s all been one big mistake, Murphy thought Ed said Holywood no Holyrood..
I saw a poll on twitter the other day that showed those polled thought UKIP to be to the left of the Tories.
While I enjoy any dig at the Tories, I found the polling quite alarming as it showed perception beats fact. Hardly anyone reads manifestos. If you have enough of a compliant media and enough apathy almost anyone can win.
We have a compliant media in Scotland and the Labour voting habit (a different type of apathy) may just be enough to blunt the rise of the SNP (in terms of FPTP seats).
I don’t know maybe all the bits of string and sticky tape will peel away from the rotting, contradictory, hollowed-out hulk that is “Scottish” Labour. I truly hope so.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
14 December, 2014 at 4:40 pm
I picked up somewhere that Labour’s paid up political membership in Scotland has dropped below 4,000 but I can’t remember where I heard that.
I also picked a figure of 4000 up somewhere. Actually, SNP/Green/Indy reps on tv should just start saying that the SLAB membership is now 4000 or less, and if the red tories start shouting “lies, it’s 17000000000” or whatever, challenge them to prove it.
Further boost as poll shows 22 point Holyrood lead.
Great article for those of us who like our stats.
Interesting info at bottom of the link on whether
or not people believe ‘The Vow’ has been met.
link to snp.org
@ Brian MacLeod says:
14 December, 2014 at 1:25 pm
It’s probably less than 5,000 now.
Either last night or this morning the Figure of 3,000 was memtioned, might have been the ToryGraph
I asked my MP to tell me how many members the Scottish Labour party has, and I am still to receive an answer. He did respond to say he will “need to make some enquiries”, but still no joy. I sent my first email on the 21st October.
My MP? Alistair Darling.
How about if everyone tries their own Labour MP?
@ Jim McIntosh (4.34pm).
??? – You’ve stumped me Jim.
Craig has a post on Jim Murphy and the CIA torture report – lack of comment on.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
I reckon the worst thing we could do would be to focus on Murphy to any great degree. I watched his interview with Brewer, and it is clear Murphy has no vision, no principles, and will go in whichever direction the wind is blowing. During the referendum campaign it was obvious he was there solely to promote himself, and to goad and wind up independence supporters and politicians. Murphy’s massive ego and manipulative personality would love for independence supporters and parties to give him unwarranted attention. I honestly think we would be better sticking to the issues, mostly because Murphy is a snake, and trying to pin him down is a waste of time due to his extreme slipperiness. To let him set the agenda by targeting him would surely be a massive mistake.
More important matters imo are how to mobilise people to campaign for the general election, and find ways to motivate people to get involved (this is actually more difficult that it seems).
I’m SO bored. Its only 19 minutes and 39 seconds since the BBC R4 liggers told me to vote Eggs Murphy, he’s our man to unite team Scotland, teamGB, team Labour voters stupid enough to vote SNP and everyone else in the whole wide British empire. Also a billionaire toddler called Prince George must now be worshipped. I love the 1920’s at the BBC.
Every foodbank item purchased at the co-op counts as a member, kinda like It’s A Wonderful Life “Every time a bell rings an angel gets it’s wings”
If Slab has 14,000 fee paying political members, which we all know is 3 times what they have, it is still only about 14% of SNP membership. SNP have 86% more members than Slab. How many 1000% do the SNP need before the BBC (Scottish Branch) start acting neutrally towards them as they are paid to do by the Scottish taxpayer?
link to newstatesman.com
Labour, Scotland and Trident. Very interesting.
Trident could be the straw which crushes the Labour camel in WM2015. And, Murphy with his pro nuke stance is just the ideal person lead that crash and burn.
Re Murph taking Labour’s ultimate crown: we all know from Gordon Brown’s treatment that the English media will never stomach a Scottish MP ever becoming PM.
After all, wasn’t that why Blair was chosen to succeed Smith? Because he was basically English?
Labour disclosure of their membership in Scotland.
Flinching towards the truth 😀
@Dr Jim
I do’nt think wee JoLa’s finished with the Eggman yet, she does’nt strike me as the hand of friendship “Betraying me is OK” type of person…maybe it’s just me but, i’ve got a wee feeling.. he he he
Mmmmm, Lamont has powerful connections in Glasgow, her husband is an influential figure in Glasgow City Council. Given their loathing for the SNP, I don’t expect any possible revenge acts to take place until it is clear beyond doubt that there is no or very little chance of a significant revival for Labour in Scotland, or the UK as a whole for that matter. If Labour do badly north and south of the border next May, then there must be a possibility that some might use it as cover for some factional revenge against Murphy; remember he also was briefing against Miliband down at Westminster as well…
Given the way and manner that Murphy has risen through Labour ranks, I would not be at all surprised if there are not some influential figures who are waiting on the side lines for their moment to leak information that would not be, lets say helpful, to Jim Murphy’s political career and ambitions.
Muttley’s right. Murphy is a bruiser with a sharp set of claws, conniving and unprincipled, but on the issues he’s a man of straw. Remember he was nine years at university without ever obtaining a degree.
Getting a bit fed up of seeing Smurfy’s face everywhere I look and hearing his fake intonation on every media channel. I just don’t like the man.
boris says:
14 December, 2014 at 4:40 pm
the old lie “Dolce et decorum est pro Patria mori” springs to mind. To the establishment, the fact that people give their lives (but never them) for their country is all about the likes of me and you knowing our place. They couldn’t care less how many die, the more the merrier, because they get to sell more weapons.
I cant say i fully understand the electoral college thing, but does anyone have the numbers to do a rough calculation of this?
We know the number of MSP/MP/MEP, and also how they voted (at least I saw mention of it. I have a number like 79 in my head but may be wrong. Then theres the others, such as the union vote and then individual members. I’m trying to get my head round the difference OMOV would make to this, given the weighting that elected members get over overs.
Gary Gibbon did a piece the other night on channel 4 news showing you how labour members in Scotland would fit into The Venue compared to the SNP. Unfortunately can’t get the bit I want to play and don’t have time to tweet Gary Gibbon to ask.
He certainly seemed to be assured of his info but with dogs barking and doorbells ringing I couldn’t hear the exact numbers he was quoting.
@R-type grunt
I don’t think letting labour in, in Scotland is a goer..not for me anyway. The more Snp mps we have in WM is what we should be aiming for. The more we have the more OUR voices will heard I fed up being invisible in this wonderful better together country!
@Hoss MackIntosh
Jail perhaps? Could he have served a year or two somewhere? Or would that be on his Westminster records?
OT
As the SNP party symbol is the Old Futhark rune Othala which means independence or freedom, maybe in any future protests, pro indy supporters should wear the reversed form on the cheeks/foreheads or T-shirts. Reversed it means lack of the normal order of things, slavery, poverty, homelessness, prejudice, Not letting go of outmoded ideas and concepts.
Sounds to me that it was a well concieved symbol back when the SNP started out, but who could have forseen the relevance today of its reversal, i.e. a failure to gain independence?
Capella
great film.
i once walked on a carpet that belonged to him, it holds a very special sentiment to me.
seen ‘days of hope’?
thanks for the craig murray link.
imperialism/might is right is odious.
socialism should have no borders.
Hi Molly.
link to youtube.com
@ fred blogger
No I haven’t seen Days of Hope so it looks like that’s my evening’s viewing sorted out! Thanks for the link. It’s great not watching BBC. You get to see so many films that you wouldn’t otherwise have time for!
Stuart McLean says:
My wife is a member of a trade union and recently advised them she did not want monies to be paid directly to the labour party but would like to direct her money to a more worthwhile political party. She was advised that the trade union could only back the labour party and could not back any other political party or individual.
Apologies for my ignorance here but are unions allowed to do this? 😉
I mean can unions legally refuse, as they obviously are doing in this case, to pay political funds into a political party other than the Labour party if requested to do so by a union member?
If a union is refusing to pay a political levy into a political party other than the Labour party then surely this is undemocratic. Funny I thought unions were all FOR democracy.
I wonder if this attitude/rules only applies to this union or do other unions try this approach as well?
If you are trying to work out labour membership from balots posted you will be well out. I am a unite member who has opted out of the political fund and was sent balots papers for the labour leadership election. I doubt I am the only one.I didn’t vote out of principle even though I have funded labour for over twenty years until a couple of months ago when I found out unite, amicus and AEEU (the union in all its carnations) had been taking my money and giving it to labour.
So which Labour politician did not vote?
According to my calculations on the percentages at least one Labour MP/MSP/MEP did not cast a vote.
Was it Grdon Brown?
Cut & Paste for Mr Milliband. Feel feel to amend, personalise or improve. Add you email address and send.
Ed Miliband Campaign Office,
Room 502,
10 Greycoat Place, London
SW1P 1SB
Edmiliband.org
020 7960 6585
Dear Mr Milliband,
Having watched a number of your speeches and presentations where you invariably assure us of your honesty, integrity, commitment, transparency and many other wonderful values, I am confident that you can answer a few questions that allow me to assess the strength and attractiveness of the Labour Party branch in Scotland.
My wife and I are currently deciding whether to join up and we will be voting for Labour in May.
But we are stuck with the following questions that are very pertinent to our decision.
1. How do you expect Murphy to redress the ever widening ‘economic, cultural and political gulf’ between Scotland and England.
2. Do you believe that Murphy will successfully convince enough of the Scottish electorate that the Labour Branch (and Murohy) had an epiphany and a subsequent U-turn on previous held beliefs.
3. How strong is the Labour Party in Scotland? My wife and I understand that it’s membership is shrinking and is now under 5000 real members. Perhaps you could enlighten us.
4. When 70% of the people in Scotland (YES and NOs) are against Trident renewal, to what extent do you agree that this presents a special democratic problem – since the majority of the residents in the country of Scotland do not want to spend more money on Trident when there are so many other priorities.
5. Finally, do you appreciate that in the even of an EU referendum where Scotland votes to stay in and England votes out, Scotland should be allowed this as a democratic right. And may well be an argument through the Courts of Human Justice. We have been EU citizens for forty years.
Now this is your test. Can you answer all of these questions, openly, honestly and accurately without reverting to politic-speak and meandering round each one. For once, demonstrate that you are smart enough not to prevaricate. Residents of Scotland are terribly tired of the succession of lies that come out of London and Westminster.
We look forward to hearing from you.
Best regards
Correction LOL
My wife and I are currently deciding whether to join up and whether we will be voting for Labour in May.
@Ericmac
Somebody must know what he was doing for 9 years at Uni.
I know you can get a couple of years sabbatical for political activities NUS, etc but 6 years is pushing it a bit?
We need an Alert Reader – preferably an ex labour activist – there must be loads around these days?
Well knock me doon wae a feather James ‘Bannockburn’ Cook and ‘Baldy Bastirt’ Campbell out blowing the trumpet for Skeletor and SLab. I can feel another PQ demo coming these fuckers are shameless..
Consider.
Sturgeon becomes leader of the SNP and First Minister of Scotland. The SNP, which is the third largest membership party in the UK.
Murphy becomes a figure head, with no power over policy or direction, for an emasculated branch of the Labour Party in North Britain.
Contrast the media coverage.
If you didn’t witness is happening, you would never believe it possible.
@Capella, that guy on this week is a disgusting creep.
With Jimbo being vice president he must be up to his eyes in it, need more proof.
@Muttley79 I agree with you abt giving him publicity to a certain degree. but this week-end is special since he’s just been voted in.
We need to work very hard to get him exposed.
Agree JoLa will have something to do/say yet.
Hell hath no fury etc, she will bide her time.
For once – go JoLa!!
“If Slab has 14,000 fee paying political members, which we all know is 3 times what they have, it is still only about 14% of SNP membership. SNP have 86% more members than Slab.”
That is numerically inept. If SNP membership is 92000+, then it is about 660% of SLAB’s 14000.
Don’t worry about Murphy. He should worry about us.
This man and his 2IC Ms Dugdale, need to convince us they are here to heal Scoland, make Scotland a better place.
The chances of that are about same as I have for seeing my hair grow back. Same goes for the media. In two years we took something like 24 points off the unionist parties lead and all without the aid of the media. Indeed in that time we saw print titles readerships drop off a cliff and viewing/listening figures plummet.
We just keep doing what we’re doing. Keep spreading the word, supporting pro Scotland parties in all ballots and most importantly, keep communicating with each other. We do this and they will go, no question. Independence is inevitable.
The establishment and the media only win so long as people believe them. Undermine that belief, that false trust on a daily basis? Undermine their credibility? Then they are effectively de-clawed. Humour, derision, hard questioning of their credibility and their motives. Constantly force them to prove or back up their claims and promises. Constant questioning by an engaged public.
THAT is what holds a politician to account, not the media, not other parties, but the public.
Oops, forgot the / in the closing italics code. How inept of me! 🙁
Murphy’s determination to say “house of commons” this morning instead of “westminster” struck me as odd.
Has “westminster” become a dirty word in Scotland?
Latest doublethink directive?
By my reckoning 79 Labour politicians voted in the leadership election and 78 voted in the deputy leadership election.
We could always suggest a ruling for lobbyists to access the parliament, at the invitation of the sitting MSPs, one paying member, one invitation per parliament, they would then have to do something, like lie about it and get caught out.
@jimF
Westminster is a filthy name in Scotland.
The referendum was a Scotland / Westminster fight, and they fought very dirty.
Strictly speaking, “Scottish” Labour has no members. There is no such beastie as “Scottish” Labour, only UK Labour. Despite the desperate attempts of their branches based in Scotland to appear to care about the actual nation they are based in, they in fact don’t care a jot for the nation of Scotland. Their whole raison d’être is the Party first, last and always. The perceived interests of the Party are paramount in the Labour mind. This allows them to hold the absurd positions they take on with impunity as everything they do can be twisted to meet the interests of the
Party. Thus, policy is flexible, principles can be discarded with ease. Everything can be justified within that mindset. This mindset is of course completely compatible with every totalitarian fascistic movement in history.
Worth a look.
http://thepeopledemand.org
Very pleased the Red Tories have elected the wrong candidates, i.e. the right ones from the YES point of view.
In “Conversation with Deborah Waters” on Livestream she hinted that the membership number was barely over 5,000. I daresay it will even have dropped since then, so I would say 5-6 thousand members. Hopefully, the SSP will soon overtake them.
However, if you compare the RIC, which is a “campaign” and not a single party (which I think is a good idea), Labour are well down in the Scottish leftist parties. Not that Labour is leftist in the slightest, although this is what they claim to be.
Isn’t the Scottish press pathetic? Slavishly doing the bidding of a foreign colonising power. I look forward to the imminent demise of the corporate print media.
Wonder if red Tory boy Murphy’s got his Xmas card from the blue Tory Blairs yet? Son of the Manse Crash may even get one too. What a bunch. I truly regret ever voting for Ms Anne Begg MP, all the way back in 1997 but will we ever be shot of the lot of them. Check out El Tone’s Xmas grimace.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
[…]that figure ignores the fact that ballot papers don’t equal membership – under Labour rules a single member can have as many as four, five or six votes, if they’re Parliamentarians and/or a member of trade unions – so we know membership must have been below that figure
In fact13,135 (8,790 of whom actually voted) is the correct number for constituency members as at the time of Ed Miliband’s election in September 2010. You can see how many ballot papers were issued to each of the 60 CLPs (Orkney and Shetland have one each) by Voting by CLP Page. This would not have included members of affiliate organisations such as Labour Students or the Unions unless they were CLP members as well. In which case they got two (or more) ballots but not in this part of the ballot unless you belonged to two separate CLPs
Presumably the social club members were extra on that too, though you would imagine that any with the slightest political interest would join the CLP.
So 13,000 is a good starting point but political Parties tend to have maximum membership a few months after an election. So there would have been a big drop-off over four years, even without the many who have left over the Referendum (though many of them may still be ‘on the books’ till their subs lapsed).
i dont like murphy but i hate lamont. vile nasty angry piece of work.
Just a thought on Labour Party Membership,
Is the reason Labour can’t give us the numbers of Scottish Labour Party memberships, because there is no Scottish Labour Party?
All Labour members are members of the UK party, so they more than likely don’t have separate numbers for Scotland, but being Labour they can’t admit this as they have worked hard to give the electorate the impression that they are somehow separate from the UK party.
So their lies have kinda caught up with them yet again, but on this occasion they are not able to tell the truth because the truth is, is that there’s no such thing as Scottish Labour and you can’t really have membership numbers for something that does not exist!
Patrick Roden says:
14 December, 2014 at 7:22 pm
That’s one element of the puzzle, Patrick.
Another is that Labour also claim Co-operative Party members as their own. So for example our own Johann Lamont and Kezia Dugdale are Coop Party, as is Ed Balls.
Patrick
They must have lists of members for each Westminster constituency to conduct postal votes selections. It may be embarrassing to reveal the actual numbers per seat.
@liz
We need to work very hard to get him exposed.
Murphy is an egotist, he will lap it all up. He is also a chameleon. Why play right into his hands? Murphy wanted to get a reaction during the referendum, and he got it and was happy. Why not concentrate on organising, campaigning, and focusing on the issues?
🙁 Civil Service party time
link to newsnetscotland.scot
@Findlay Farquaharson
i dont like murphy but i hate lamont. vile nasty angry piece of work.
Funnily enough, I have heard Lamont is a really decent, genuine person. I agree that her political persona was awful, but I don’t think she is like that as an individual.
I struggle to believe these figures Rev.
If anyone believes in today’s Labour Party, their first priority is always protecting their own riches, they’d rue paying membership fees ( why am I now suspecting Labour MPs claiming membership fees under expenses?).
Can you confirm that this Labour figure doesn’t include everyone who has shopped at a Co-Op?
Since we allow these parties to participate in our government at Holyrood, and no doubt we also contribute as taxpayers to their expenses by way of accommodation and staff services, shouldn’t we have the right to know how many party members they have in Scotland.
Seems a fair request to me.
You’re the SNP, how many members do you have in Scotland?
You’re Scottish Labour, how many members do you have in Scotland?
You’re the Scottish Greens, how many members do you have in Scotland.
etc.
Xaracen says:
14 December, 2014 at 6:50 pm
“If Slab has 14,000 fee paying political members, which we all know is 3 times what they have, it is still only about 14% of SNP membership. SNP have 86% more members than Slab.”
That is numerically inept. If SNP membership is 92000+, then it is about 660% of SLAB’s 14000.
Sorry, you are of course correct.
Too much Glühwein, I guess. I rounded SNP membership to 100k and took SNP and Slab membership as 100%.
Anyone found out who Jim Murphy is yet and what he believes?
Paula
A psycho-analysts mightmare – they would have a nervous breakdown before long.
@Paula Rose – there’s a lot of people on twitter calling Murphy #creepyjim & #poundshoptonyblair.
Whilst this may be childish as well as mildly amusing, Iain MacWhirter is saying makes him feel sorry for Murphy.
I have to say I find that astonishing, Murphy lied, shouted at folk trying to ask legitimate questions £1m expenses, was in the Blair government during the Iraq debacle and Iain MacWhirter feels sorry for him because he’s getting called a few names.
The problem is of course the totally crap MSM/BBC treatment of Murphy with a lot more to come over the next 6 months.
People have a right to be angry
The BBC low lives are at it again. There is not one Scottish contestant in BBC Sports Personality of the year. Despite Scotland’s brilliant performance in Glasgow. The BBC are disgusting.
Just working out how many people I know are Labour party members……..nane 🙂
@Lochside
“What’s to question?”
Whaowooooooooooooo very well said 🙂
Paula Rose says:
14 December, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Anyone found out who Jim Murphy is yet and what he believes?
Where folk say “I’m Alex Salmond”, in Murphy’s case its
“I’m definitely NOT Jim Murphy”
Apparently SLAB is at the point where it is about to receive endangered species status. Certain reserves will need to be set up if this particular sub-species is not to die out entirely. I believe Gruinard Island may be available and eminently suitable.
A large paty membership doesnt always equal boots on the ground,to leaflet and canvass.
Although the musselburgh branch has 400 members,up from the 80 they had before,the recent election in mayfield had the usual members doing all the leg work(and the SNP lost narrowly to Labour by the way)
I really hope these new members help out,we can win in 2015 but only if we all do our bit!
Interesting point Debbie, it is easier to spend £12 on annual subs, harder to get out there and canvas. I suspect whatever rump SLAB have will be motivated and experienced, the SNP need to get these numbers to be a co-ordinated and on message task force.
Regarding BBC state media bias against SNP. Post referendum I have noted that Alex, Nicola, Swinney and Hosie have all publicly challenged the BBC in Scotland. This morning I listened to a NS phone in on Radio Clyde, which was also to be broadcast on Tay,Forth, North sound and West sound. Could this be a SNP strategy to bypass State broadcasting by using the Independent Radio network? If so will the penny drop with the Independent TV stations?
All you have to do to destroy Jim Murphy is to ask what he actually believes.
I cannot remember who said it but somebody one said “If you stop telling lies about us we’ll stop telling the truth about you”
That’s what we do with Jim Murphy. Tell the truth about him
He not only has had £1 mill in expenses but he flipped his home three times. He explained some of this this away by saying he had had to stay much of the time in Scotland when he was Sec Of State – yet at the same time he took all the monthly London allowance of £400 (even when he was in China) and the year that Alex Salmond got attacked by the media for taking two months of it Murphy actually claimed for and got 13 months. His expenses are very interesting and give Eric Joyce or Flipper Darling a run for their money.
He has never been subjected to anything other than a generous and compliant press.
Here’s the thing.
On 7th May the main objective of the establishment will be to ensure there is not a Labour victory.
The Daily Record may support Murphy’s Labour. Perhaps the Herald But there is no way the rest of it want a troop of Labour MPs coming down from Scotland giving Milliband a victory.
In 2011 following a narrow Tory success in the General Election much of the printed media in Scotland (except the Record) developed a very fair coverage of the SNP going into 2011 Scottish Election. This was to frustrate a Labour victory in Scotland which would have out huge pressure on the shaky Westminster coalition government. The unintended consequence was an SNP landslide because whenever the SNP gets fair press its case is unassailble.
There is no way most of our printed media wants a Labour victory in May. My guess is that their concerns about Scotland’s independence will be put to one side for that campaign and Murphy will be the target
Seems JM is a bully & not popular
link to ajustchurch.blogspot.co.uk
If you haven’t already done so, spare a thought for those experienced Slabberites such as Findlay, Boyack and Clark who now have to look up and answer to their new branch bosses –
Skeletor: London’s gofer and self-obsessed warmonger.
Deputy Dug: A thick and ignorant inexperienced patsy.
Right, i’ve tried sparing a thought and its just not happening, i can’t control the laughter. Hurry you clowns, bow before your masters – Skeletor & Deputy Dug.
Even worse, how can the unions support these Red Tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
It’ll be interesting to see if SNP membership increases this week on the back of the Egg Man’s elevation to Branch Chairman of the Labour Party in Scotland.
Is that Katy Clark NOT clapping in the photo (to the right)?
Interesting
That last post from me relates to a blogger Chris Howson who is also an Anglican priest.
Love the pic in the Sunday Herald, Neil Findlay looks like he took his hand away before the egg man could shake it, Katy Clark looks like somebodies farted in her spacesuit.
You would think that for once they would look like a big happy family, if only for 30 secs to get the pics for the press, but this one picture shows how divided the Sweaty Sock branch of the Labour Party is.
Lollysmum says:
14 December, 2014 at 8:52 pm
Thanks for the link. It gives the same message I have heard elsewhere. How does the truth remain suppressed…a compliant media.
One face in public and the truth off camera.
hmm creepy jim seems to put the people especially woman off him as I just asked around the pub
creepy jim it is from now on then
I’d be really interested to see a study by prof Robertson comparing the air time given to candidates in the race for scottish labour leader. I’m sure jim murphy would be way out in front.
MSM supporting Murphy:
Don’t be angry or surprised about this folks, you need to look at it this way:
ANYONE who will promote or maintain the Neo-Con agenda will get the full support of the UK’s MSM.
The idea that Mr Murphy has somehow built this formidable relationship with the MSM is simply not true.
Just Look at Gordon Brown and how the Neo-Con-MSM treated him after he unseated their little puppet Blair!
Yet a few Years later this same MSM was promoting him as the New Messiah!!! why?
Because he was now fighting to keep the Neo-Con elites ‘cash-cow’ exactly where they wanted it kept ‘in Westminster’s hands’
So as long as the SNP or Greens or any other party reject Neo-Con policies, they will never get the support of the MSM, but the flip side of that is, that as long as even the most useless dishonest corrupt lying thieving paedophile protecting and funding scum-bags from Labour keep supporting the neo-con policies they will continue to get the gushing support that we have seen Jim Murphy get over the past few months.
BTW what was Jim Muphy’s position while the Labour cabinet was funding the Paedophile Information Exchange ?
boris@14 December, 2014 at 4:40 pm
“Cartoon entitled ‘Death and the profit = ghouls’, 8 Aug 1914”
link to sites.scran.ac.uk
Rancid Graun’s farts out its usual imperial masters say vote Labour Scotland
“The second thing that Labour needs to do is to show that it is the party of the deprived, the exploited and all those who want a fair deal. Mr Murphy’s speech put that front and centre on Saturday too — and his own life story embodies it.”
As Blair, Crash and the Flipper get together for their annual Xmas money fights, for their own charidies ofocurse.
Headline usual rancid Guardian double speek, all tens of members of Labour in Scotland when they actually mean the BBC in Pacific Quay and STV, shysters across the Clyde at the Record etc.
“The Guardian view on Jim Murphy: Scottish Labour’s new leader faces a huge task
Whether he was their choice or not, the Labour party in Scotland must unite behind their new leader”
muttley79 says:
14 December, 2014 at 7:46 pm
@Findlay Farquaharson
i dont like murphy but i hate lamont. vile nasty angry piece of work.
Funnily enough, I have heard Lamont is a really decent, genuine person. I agree that her political persona was awful, but I don’t think she is like that as an individual.
==========================================
I have to say Muttley79 – Lamont disguises being a decent genuine person, very well.
Lollysmum
thanks for the link, not surprised @ all.
Guardian today:
“Scottish Labour and Welsh Labour are just the parts of the Labour party that operate in Scotland and Wales. They’re about as independent as a Tesco Metro is from Tesco.
@Dave McEwan Hill –
It is Katy Clark.
Hasn’t worked out terribly well for her, eh?
Never mind Katy. Here’s a wee song.
Hue & Cry, ‘Remote’ –
link to youtube.com
Murphy;s stance on anything does not matter a damn, as every Labour M.P. who may get to Westminster will come under the Party whip for Labour. We will soon see who is the real boss. They (S.L.A.B) are trying to play a dangerous game of giving the illusion of autonomy, which at some point would backfire on them.
@ScottieDog
Yes – there certainly seems to be a festival of Murph on the BBC Scotland website at the moment.
Wall to wall Murphy – did you know he was capped for the Scotland football team in his youth?
O/T
There was I in Tesco buying a few things. Found their deli meat packets don’t have butcher aprons on them. Oh how I love pickled baby beetroot. OK its a Baxters jar and I am supposed to boycott them, but they are so so nice. So I pick up the jar, like a naughty child raiding a biscuit tin when I notice these are “100% British beets”. Ach you had me there til the last minute Aud. I put them back. They can all stick their 100 percent British where the sun never sets.
This might explain why labour’s UK membership is apparently so far in front of the Tories. If they’re using this social club trick UK wide, then you can probably knock off 70k – 80k from the official figures, putting them on par with the Tories. Would be interested to see how UK-wide accounts compare.
@debbiethebruce
The SNP really needs to make sure they get as many members as active as they can. If they cannot translate their huge membership into a significant number of newer activists, then that is probably going to cause problems in the near future. I said in an earlier post that it is harder to motivate people to get actively involved than it can appear. The referendum was not about party politics.
@Karmanaut
If they are playing the social club game UK wide, then they could be behind the SNP at a UK level! Now there’s a thought!
I thought they were ~180k UK wide. It could be 100k genuine political members.
We need answers!!!
A must read
link to craigmurray.org.uk
The far right CIA funded Henry Jackson Society, Vice President Jim Murphy, officially supports torture. Here is the odious Douglas Murray putting the Henry Jackson Society view on This Week.
Having watched Jim Murphy interviewing Gordon Brewer today, it just shows how ineffectual our Scottish journalists and the BBC are. There were at least 3 or 4 points that Murphy made that were open to scrutiny or questioning. It really is pathetic.
Not one challenge to anything Murphy said but lots of camaraderie. Can we not produce a Paxman type to grill them? Ponsonby is about the best up here but his grilling is still lacking the forensic grilling which the top journalists employ.
@ patrick Roden
PIE was 1974 to 1984. Too early for JM so no link there.
I wonder how long it will be before Dugdale falls out with him.
Its only been 18 minutes but the BBC haven’t told me to VOTE JIM MURPHY since 18 minutes ago! Its ok though, BBC R4 Westminster hour boots up now and its going to be a Jim Murphytasia, a splurge of Murphy, an massive ejaculation of BBC says VOTE MURPHY etc
Yup, Own man, shot calling, all new labour in Scotland leader Jim Murphy wants independence for Labour party in Scotland, Murphy needs no ones permission to do things and he sounds very calm too, not a raging hysteric at all.
A last comment…
Murphy has the advantage that he will not have to take on Nicola on at FMQs. She would demolish him. Poor deputy dug.
He will never appear in any debates where he has to face awkward questions and the BBC will shield him from that.
Also on the up side he can double his expenses shuttling back and forth between WM and Scotland.
However, not being at Holyrood has many disadvantages. From the above photos it is all to easy to see the dis-united party who will be plotting away against him when Murph is down South. All one happy labour family – not.
That is enough Murph for me. He is a bit like the Smurphs there is only so much you can take.
How many ballot papers sent out.?
How many members?
How many people actually voted?
@Devorgilla –
Who’s to say they won’t become an item? Don’t you detect a certain frisson between them?
John Paul Young, ‘Love Is In The Air’ –
link to youtube.com
Apparently, many voted No because they hated Alex Salmond.
I wonder how many will not vote Labour because they hate Murphy.
I don’t think that the Murphy saga has anything to do with Scotland but lots to do with him being side-lined by Ed Milliband.
Paula Rose,
“Anyone found out who Jim Murphy is yet and what he believes?”
Where have you been?
Every dog in the street knows who he is, thanks to our state broadcaster.
And our own Chris Cairns has found out exactly what he believes in.
[URL]http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-whether-report/[/URL]
@davidb
With the Baby Jesus birthday coming up and everyone spending tons of cash on pressies and expensive foods a wee reminder of the shops and companies that helped rip the heart out of the 1.6 million patriots is probably due.
A view from inside the labour party
link to rs21.org.uk
O/T,
Craig Murray has openly called for Blair and Straw to be put on trial for torture.
Can anyone from ‘Lawyers for Yes’ or any so called ‘Human Rights’ lawyers support him and publicly do the same?
Chalks?
I won’t be holding my breath. In my view, the vast majority of lawyers are the lowest of the low.
Like career politicians, they will take a side to enhance their careers and make noises.
But ultimately their only aim is to fleece the public and enrich themselves.
Like insurance companies and bankers, they NEVER lose out.
Very interesting point posed by galamcennalath, regarding the remainder of the Labour party membership in E&W having a large component of social club memberships? If it is similar to the Scotland breakdown that would show that SNP is moving to be the 2nd largest party in UK and closing on the Tories. Any thoughts Rev?
Scot Finlayson,
” With the Baby Jesus birthday coming up and everyone spending tons of cash on pressies and expensive foods a wee reminder of the shops and companies that helped rip the heart out of the 1.6 million patriots is probably due.”
I support a Spartan-Gandhian lifestyle until we get rid of the colonial yoke.
With the exception of New Zealand, I don’t think any people ever became independent without a great deal of suffering. Just see what happened to our cousins, the Irish.
@ Rock honey – do you have a problem with irony xx
link to facebook.com
Murphy isn’t the threat, it’s the BBC and MSM that are the problem. As others have said, they will let him stand back and spout forth what he wants unchallenged!
Competent interviewers would shred him. He has no substance whatsoever.
I like the picture, with Sunny Jim’s left foot pointing left and Findlay looking downcase at it, but Jim’s right foot squaring up to the right with his attention focussed in that direction.
He’d better straighten up before walking off though or he’ll be all over the place.
Dan says:
I’ve heard from a few folk who are SNP memebers that they got a vote in this.They said they had opted out of giving money to the red tories yet they still got a vote.
__
I am an SNP member but because I am a member of USDAW I recieved a ballot paper in the post which I didn’t use.
the only concession the smurph will get from labour HQ is to piss against the wind in a force 10 hoolie.
Murphy wont consult Milliband on campaining nor take any direction from him.
Will we now see the registration of SLAB Jim or will you still be under the good old Labour UK party & Millibands control,decisions decisions decisions.
BBC Murphy in full swing on Reporting Murphy.
Next up SportMurphy.
Oh – its that Jim Murphy, the silly idiot, I thought the Northern UK branch of the Labour party were serious.
@ Ian Brotherhood.
OK OK OK, you’ve finally succeeded, is yer right ear no burnin?
I’ve now got The Flying Pickets stuck in ma heed thanks to your
post @ 10.05pm, and just before bedtime tae.
May you be plagued by some obscure tune repeatedly whirling
around yer nut all night.
Stoker
anti-dote; Brian Protheroe Pinball 🙂
It seems a bit rude of New Jim to take British Labour party funds and yet take no account of their policies or leadership.
I guess it’s the first step from dependency to independence for Jim.
This is precious documentary by ‘wee bastard’ which is going to come back and bite Murphy’s boney arse in the months ahead.
If you have time for nothing else, check out his behaviour at 21 and 36 mins:
link to youtube.com
Wouldn’t surprise me if the figure turned out to be around 50.
So, Mr Murphy, if Labour win the General Election in May, whose policies on austerity, pensions, welfare, taxation, defence, trident etc will Scottish voters be subject to? Will it be Scottish Labour’s policies or English Labour’s policies that we will have to live under? English Labour’s you say? I see.
@ fred blogger.
Cheers, done!
😉
link to youtube.com
Hi uno mas,
Good idea but how about same pic but caption to read, “Westminster Government Isn’t Working”???
Auld Rock
And as for the comment
“…a wee reminder of the shops and companies that helped rip the heart out of the 1.6 million patriots is probably due.”
Have you all seen this latest stunt from the co-op? Supermarkets now see food banks as a fair game way of upping their sales, another reason not to shop at the co-op:
link to metro.co.uk
BBC R4 The Film Programme great tonight, Jim Murphy’s top 100 greatest movies to see before you vote Jim Murphy. Next up, Jim Murphy Book at Bedtime, JK Rowling and some cheezee grot, followed by Jim Murphy reading Shipping forecast and then 6 hours off before Jim Murphy Today programme kicks off with fellow union jock Jim Naughty/Murphy asking Jim Murphy/Naughty why he’s such an amazing guy, while Sarah Posh Lady honks away behind them at how Scottish people are actually really lovely once you get to them, are they all like you Jim Murphy/Naughty, nice and loyal and British?
why is everybody getting so excited about Jim Murphy for?
He’s a wanker.
@ian Brotherhood – what a FUD. Rambling on and on and not answering serious questions.
Well I saved that for future use
@Stoker –
Sorry friend, it wasn’t intended.
This might help get rid of it –
Dr. Hook, ‘When You’re Love With A Beautiful Woman’ –
link to youtube.com
Thanks for that Brian Doonthetoon
Ian Brotherhood
what a coward he is!
@ClanDonald 11.33pm
It’s about as disgraceful as the recent ‘Christmas Jumper’ scam by Save the Children; a cynical deal with the supermarkets designed to boost their sales while raising a few pennies for this so-called charity, which gave an award to the war-monger Tony Blair, and the executives of which are paid 6-figure salaries.
Many schools took part in this event, and I know for a fact that many parents spent money they couldn’t afford on jumpers so that their children wouldn’t be left out. If you assume each jumper cost on average £12 and the schools asked each child to bring in £1 on the day, the amount going to the supermarkets was about 12 times as much as the amount going to this so-called good cause. What an appalling rip-off. I will never donate to Save the Children again.
I have seen and read quite a bit over this weekend on MSM about Jim Murphy……
Okay I give in.
He will be the Mel Gibson made flesh.
Paula Rose 4.19pm
“Will the North UK branch of the Labour Party be printing its own manifesto?”
This sentence could be the one that nails Murphy. After all he says he will be doing his own thing, so lets see if he is all mouth or not. Let’s see if he will walk the walk.
All we need now is to get someone to ask him. And don’t say Gordon Brewer.
@ Ian Brotherhood.
Dr.Hook – Just what the doctor ordered, after trying to watch
that tosser in Wishaw link you put up in a previous post.
Had to stop watching after 10/15 seconds at each of the time slots you mentioned.
I can’t even look at him without feeling a sudden surge in rage.
I’m off to my pit, i’ve had enough of the creepy cavalier & deputy dug for one day.
Night all.
@Natasha, I wouldn’t mind so much if the supermarkets sold food at cost if it is to be donated to foodbanks but they don’t, they charge full price, it is plain old profiteering. Totally sickening. I hate it, and have such mixed feelings when I donate food, it makes me feel like we are letting the tory government off the hook.
As for Save the Children, I never forgave them after they pulled a lot of funding out of Scotland in the late nineties citing devolution as a reason. They didn’t stop collecting money from Scotland though of course.
Jimbamuff stated on Sunday politics “I want to transfer Westminster’s power to HOLYROOD then immediately transfer it to local government ASAP.” As I stay in Greenock (AKA) Inverclyde you should read labours political history in this area. They have squandered millions trashed the place at vast expense and stick two fingers up to the dwindling population, as some of the executive leave under grey sky’s with oodles of loot.
DUNCAN Mcniel MSP tries to smash his desk in holyrood while looking gaunt and clueless.
Ian McKenzie MP enough said. Punches his mobile phone incessantly and is clueless.
IMO.
Inverclydes finest. God help us!
AND THEY STILL GET VOTED IN.
“Eventually journalists in the BBC and other MSM will be shamed into asking Labours Scottish branch the right questions.”
Err,… no.
Westminster Civil Service, “Devolved Countries Unit”, (Dirty Tricks) campaign team wins “special” Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Civil Service Award
The award, in recognition of the team’s outstanding achievement in making a difference on an issue of national significance, (the Referendum) was presented by the ”Cabinet Secretary and civil service head Sir Jeremy Heywood. The proud team commented afterwards;
link to caltonjock.com
O/T New Scotland Yard London Police sold to Abu Dabbu investments for £370 million & further sales of police property,running down the London police service is the 1st step towards privatisation.
Looks like a serious hostage situation is unfolding in the Lindt coffee house in Sydney. Apparently some hostages have been seen at window holding up a black flag with white Arabic writing on it. There was also an alleged bomb scare at the Sydney Opera House.
Now I am well known for my cynicism here but from what I’ve heard and seen on the news channels I’d strongly suspect Sydney is suffering from a couple of individuals who have returned from Syria and are supporters of ISIS, ISIL or whatever the hell they call themselves this week.
I just have two things to say.
1) I hope wee Tony Blair is enjoying this situation unfolding in Sydney because if it is, as I suspect it will, confirmed that the hostage takers are supporters of IS then this is a DIRECT result of BLAIR’s lies that led to Iraq II and the subsequent power vacuum afterwards.
2) I hope Save the Children are happy with this situation having recently awarded the warmonger Blair an award.
Papadox See my Inverclyde report. I agree that financial services should be devolved to Regions but with authority comes responsibility and in the case of Inverclyde financial incompetence seems to be endless and unpunished, possibly because the electorate keep voting the wasters back into office.
link to caltonjock.com
Are my ears deceiving me Scots are living longer (murph on D politics)what a differance a couple of months make,he,s going to talk to Nicola about Pensions,(have they been devolved)Jims away ahead of himself, twat.
Jim Murphy and the disappearing Scottish Labour members
If the membership of the SLAB was just one, it would make no difference to the RESULT – which is all that matters in the new politics.
The RESULT is achieved by TV. No other form of canvassing can even begin to compete with Television.
To keep up appearances, SLAB will do a bit of leafleting etc, but they don’t need party members for this when the OO will do it all for them.
Labour are in bed not just with the Tories, but with ALL the Unionist groups.
Murphy is here for the Union – nothing else.
His job is to get the Union through the next few years intact and to inflict as much damage as he can to the Independence movement.
The man’s a ("Tractor" - Ed), whichever way you look at it.
He’s also a fool because he thinks he can become a Tory.
As if they would accept someone like him.
ronnie anderson says:
Are my ears deceiving me Scots are living longer (murph on D politics)what a difference a couple of months make,he,s going to talk to Nicola about Pensions,(have they been devolved)Jims away ahead of himself, twat.
I think you must have mis-heard Murph the Smurph Ronnie. 😉
What he ACTUALLY said was that he was going to speak to Nicola about HIS pension! 😛
Looks like Scottish labour are drunk on their own importance the new enlightenment in Scottish politics at a grassroots level is amazing they tried to bury the yes alliance but did not realize this movement was a seed a mustard seed at that the smallest seed that grows huge whoever has ears let them hear he who comes last shall be first
ClanDonald @ 11:29 pm
ClanDonald there is only one body that runs the NuLabour Party, wherever it is in the UK,… the NEC… FFS even Elmer Fudd worked that one out.
.
Here’s the link for the Garry Gibbon peice for channel 4 news that someone above spoke about.
link to tinyurl.com
A guy I know from the labour party branch of Dundee got into my taxi at the weekend. What he told me was quite interesting. Dundee is divided into east and west seats. Due to a major lack of members and finances, they decided they are only gonna fight for the west where they have a sitting MP – Jim Mcgovern. The east will be leafleted once- no more. Everything will be thrown at the west. When I asked about their membership I was informed its slightly over a hundred in Dundee- mainly pensioners. The whole of Dundee used to be solid labour, now they are left fielding a paper candidate in the east. He finished by saying he didn’t believe they had a hope in hell of keeping the west seat
Jim Murphy on sunday politics …what a load of who flungdung …gonnae dae this, gonnae be that oh the promises and the cast iron guarantee ..aye right just like the promises made to students who thought they would be getting grants and instead got hampered by loans the same murph that took all that was going from the system for 9 years and not a quali to show for it….., I mean how do these geezers get to run our affairs ? It beggars belief guys it really does ..and an exemplary well educated and truly professional bloke the likes if ALex has to stand down …its truly way off the mark. I agree with the skelator on one thing ….when he said im big enuff and ugly enuff..bang on there jimbo ….maybe you could spend some of that big fat salary on some dental work and do away with the tombstone teeth ..jeez it was like sight hill cemetary …yuk.oh and close the door behind you and emigrate doonsooth to the unionjock brigade..gonna be ..more like hasbeen.
Jim Murphy on sunday politics …what a load of who flungdung …gonnae dae this, gonnae be that oh the promises and the cast iron guarantee ..aye right just like the promises made to students who thought they would be getting grants and instead got hampered by loans the same murph that took all that was going from the system for 9 years and not a quali to show for it….., I mean how do these geezers get to run our affairs ? It beggars belief guys it really does ..and an exemplary well educated and truly professional bloke the likes if ALex has to stand down …its truly way off the mark. I agree with the skelator on one thing ….when he said im big enuff and ugly enuff..bang on there jimbo ….maybe you could spend some of that big fat salary on some dental work and do away with the tombstone teeth ..jeez it was like sight hill cemetary …yuk.oh and close the door behind you and emigrate doonsooth to the unionjock brigade..gonna be ..more like hasbeen.
Speech from Murphy to be given on Monday, trailed in New Statesman. Stu has linked it on Twitter.
Murphy will set forth his Scottish ‘Clause IV’ change, a la Blair in the 90s. He’ll set out 5 key principles. One is that SLAB is “a patriotic party”. He premises this on Burns poetry, the “economic vision of New Lanark” & the Highlanders’ struggle against “brutal landlords” (no mention of death & destruction by General Wade & the Redcoats, & subjugation by the British state).
The remaining principles are also the usual fatuous crap & empty rhetoric.
266 comments at last check.. how you doing Scotland? mes amis.. people I know, cameron B, rev S, Ronnie, xsticks, scaredy cat, the gorgeous TJenny, stoker, lumi lumi (gimme some snow yeah, kaunis ecosse!), Grouser, arabsforAYE, the magnificent Al Har (hope you had a cool night in Gourock Mr T), the amazing Paula R, Quinie fay A, me, you and aye’body else. Hey Lesley A!.. how be U?.. Gordoz, the amazing Ian B..
Pause..
Inching (ever so closer) towards ze truth.. you know Scotland.
Alba4eva, X sticks, Chic, Morag, Cam B, Tam J, Duggy D,calc Mc’D, Clan D, Chris C, Call me D, handlapping, R-Type,, Ericmac, ken five O’s, Alex, Nicla, Wee ginger D, wingman, Robert P, man_and_a_B, molly, Tyran, auld rock, natasha, caz_m, boris, and anybuddy else I’ve missed..
We love you Scotland and we ROCK! X
Listen to the wind blow, just watch that sun rise..
“Because the night belong to lovers”
X Love you Scotland X
Murphy’s missing university years could, simply speaking, be blamed on alien abduction.
He could have been wheeched up into a wee spaceship and then probed incessantly. Allegedly, they didn’t spend a lot of time in his head as they couldn’t get the same data from it twice in a row.
He does have certain reptilian qualities and may be known for pausing outside pet shops with budgies and hamsters in the window. It hasn’t been confirmed whether he has ever stopped off for a wee snack, but it’s quite possible.
It has been said that he spends hours in the reptile house at the zoo, flicking his tongue engaging with the inhabitants.
Of course, he could simply have just been overseas – “doing stuff” for people 🙂
Ian Brotherhood says
“Who’s to say they won’t become an item? Don’t you detect a certain frisson between them?”
What?
like rat poison?
rat poisons an item!
or did you mean Fission?
link to youtube.com
Cactus
Ahem? 🙁
don’t let murphy have his dream of a seat in the HoL Don’t vote Labour or watch the jim murphy channel on one
We are all getting obsessed with Murphy.
It’s important not to take the eye off the ball here.
There are more Jedi in Scotland than Labour members.
The BBC is destroying the dream of an independent Scotland EVERY DAY.
We need schematics for the trench run.
There’s a thermal exhaust port no bigger than a womp rat..
“BBC MURPHY” headlines:
“Jim Murphy to rewrite Labour’s constitution for Scotland”
Such a change will “represent the re-founding and rebirth of our Scottish Labour Party,” he will argue.
He will say: “Tony Blair rewrote Clause 4 of UK Labour to bring us closer to the centre of politics. I want to rewrite ‘Clause 4’ of Scottish Labour to bring us closer to the centre of Scottish life.”
link to bbc.com
Hey jk, oops dude, was in and out of a crazy consciousness.. 🙂 Seasons Greetings amigo!
YES be 45%..+
No be -..55% (and declining rapidly)
FACT
Re Skeletor speaking to Wee Nicola about anything – in what capacity? He doesn’t sit at Holyrood. He’s not a cabinet minister. Would that be as a back bench MP? And anyway, don’t MP’s set their own rules on their pensions?
Murphy bla bla bla , pass the bucket , switch the Beeb Off !
If the non Internet voters were out of touch pre ref , how will they cope with 2 Labours ?
Will the penny drop ?
HM BBC Defender of the Fraud
On GMS at 7,20 or so Gary Robertson cut short the young lady who was making reference to Jim Murphy’s murky past by saying he isn’t here to defends himself.
Is this a new policy from BBC Scotland?
Even more amazing when at 8.15 BBC announced Jim Murphy wasn’t available to speak to the programme.
PS Charlie Flynn was 2014 Sports PERSONALITY of the year although it should have gone to Rory McIroy who perhaps ruined his chances by saying he would compete for Ireland at the Olympics which a tax exile is exempt to public opprobrium.
OT Anybody see that choice wee section on whatshisnames Good News programme last night?
Lovely publicity for apparent Rangers fans giving it laldy about Mr Salmond – I switched off.
Amazing how researchers can dig up this kind of dirt and expose it further on TV for whatever agenda they have.
I was trying to work out what’s going on in the picture. It looks like Murphy has grabbed Boyack’s arm (the hand of which is clenched into a fist). Findlay’s got the raised hand and hurt demeanour of someone who just awkwardly went in for a handshake and was ignored.
Hey Charles Edward, I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the parallels here. I’ve always felt there was something of the Star Wars narrative about this. Just think of thousands of planets quite happy to be under Empire rule because the corrupt and evil nature of the Empire isn’t affecting them (yet) – just like people voted No to ‘protect’ their livestyles.
Kinda makes you wonder how many walked out the cinema saying to themselves that dodgy Senator had a point. (they might now be easier to spot though, they’ll be the ones agreeing with The Murph).
@John O
Thanks for the link to the Channel 4 news article.
Most revealing bit for me, was the reference to Labour Party members and how the Local parties did not want to have lots of new members as they would not be able to control them and would lose the fiefdoms and entitlements. This is why the labour membership issue is so important.
Why can’t the BBC do objective and impartial news like this? I wonder?
Liked the Graphics with the Stacked up Hydros full of new SNP members – just brilliant!
Whilst perusing the national was thinking.. does anybuddy fancy a quickie as well as a cryptic?
It’s your paper Scotland, tell em how you want it.
This morning’s phone-in on Radio Scotland is predictably about Jim Murphy. One caller phoned in to tell Lib Dems and Tories to get behind Murphy to stop the Nats, socialism and Independence. Interesting times. Wasn’t it the No side who told us to MOVE ON and that the referendum was over? And yet they are still fighting it. We have seen the unionist parties up here in Aberdeen uniting against Salmond in the Gordon seat. Just a thought but maybe we should use their calls of MOVE ON against them? And maybe that’s why, for this election, a formal Yes Alliance would be a mistake – we would be accused of re-running the referendum? Anyway with 52% now supporting independence and the SNP running with a huge majority for the GE we know where we are going, don’t we? I bet there’s a lot of knuckles on this site itching to get knocking on doors come spring time.
SLAB won’t release membership figures because they would be too embarrassed at the low numbers. Perhaps Mr Joyce MP could assist?
Jim Murphy wants us to trust him beacause he says so. Everything will be alright this time because he says so. People of Scotland, trust Jim Murphy at you peril!
Jim Murphy wants to end poverty in Scotland. Miss World wants to end world poverty, so can I suggest you speak to her for ideas Jim.It would also be a good PR excercise.
SLAB has the same problems as Scotland,we are both controlled by London. So sunny Jim, if you see that SLAB needs to be independent to prosper, why can’t you apply the same logic to Scotland?
@caz-m
If I were Murphy, that would be my plan … Create an actual Scottish Labour Party.
Problem is he won’t, it will only be vapourware, it will not actually exist. Effectively it will be political fraud. However the BBC et al will pass it off as a real party with real policies.
Having cut the BBC news out of my life has its benefits. I appear to have completely missed the adoration of the Eggi.
This is good.
Miracal,s do happen create a non excistant political party (SLAB) change clause 4 of the constatution of the non excistant political party (SLAB)become a MSP & stand as (SLABS)candidate for FM 2016. Murphs wrote his letter tae Santa Claus ah hope he publishes the reply.
I tend to agree with those voices which are saying we just say Labour have less than 4000 members and make them prove it. Also Murphy doesn’t do challenges well, get him on policy and not “amongst friends” in the BBC and he is likely to come off badly as he gets rattled and shouty, perhaps Ed has seen that character flaw which exiled him to Scotland along with McTernan.
Whatever other folks think of Craig Murray I find his piece in the Mail is courageous.
I have been told that Big EGGO was in Easterhoose yesterday and everyone they interviewed gave him wot for, apart from one who just said he is still voting Labour.
Maybe the Radio Scotland is still under the radar of the Pom Frits.
Noo, some Labourites are calling for Blair to be tried for his war crimes. Where have they been all these years?
The National rocks.
No teatime quickie.
Cryptic rules.
Moodie cartoons are genius.
I want National TV channel.
BBC Scotland website comments only permitted occasionally such as when promoting Murphy. When Murphy is elected and makes pronouncements, BBC Scotland duly reports them but this time no comments permitted.
The BBC do not seem to realise or do not care that a huge section of the Scottish population no longer trusts what the BBC say, especially in politics and news.
This will end up with no BBC as lots of people south of the border feel the same.
An unwieldy albatross whose time is up.
Surely there must be one journo there somewhere that cant resist the headline. “Scottish Labour has less members than Scottish green party” surely?
he must be very brainy if he had 9 years at uni
IMO
Murphy and his dug avoid the truth like labour avoids socialism and reality. Jimba says “he wants to replace the tollies”. Good news dude labour joined the tolly party they didn’t replace it. You are a right wing wolf in sheeps clothing.
You are going to take control of the Labour Party in Scotland and divorce from Londinium HQ, if the NEC let’s you, if not you’ll just tell a pack of lies and carry on regardless. Onward and downward Jimba and don’t forget the dug.
“Scottish Labour Party Special offer! Join for just £5 a year ”
from link to secure.scottishlabour.org.uk
State funding should also be tied to party membership receipts on a £ for £ basis. Aside from making the party membershipp figures AUDITED, verifiable and public – the pertinent point here – it would also have the even more attractive effect of empowering the members of a party. Party leaders would be obliged to listen to their members, develop democratic structures that engage, involve and make them feel valued. More particularly, they would be accountable to members and not big business donors.
This would need to be accompanied by far ower, more rigorous limits on donations from individuals or businesses to ensure help prevent parties, politicians and policies being bought by big donors. Given the SNP ascendancy in Scotland a lot of those big donors will be switching to the party who look like they will be in power here for a long time to come – which means those donors will be doing their best to dilute, divert and corrupt the party and its leading lights to their ends.
The benefits of these reforms are clear – a more accountable, less corruptable, more democratic body politic. The fact that the 2006 Hayden Philips enquiry on party funding rejected very similar proposals was down to objections from the three main parties who refused to countenance such reforms giving ample evidence, as if it were needed, of the health of our party political system.
Apologies for all the typos above.
Must feel so good for Craig Murray, almost like the hunted becoming the hunter;
link to dailymail.co.uk
Actual numbers are well below 10,000 and will have been for some years.
The SNP, Scottish Greens and the UK Labour Party publish in their return to the Electoral Commission the number of members alongside membership income (separate from donations). Scottish Labour provides membership income but not membership numbers. However, from the income it is possible to extrapolate numbers within a range.
Income per member over time for SNP, Scottish Greens and Labour Party are:
Year / SNP / Scottish Greens / Labour Party
2009 / £24.72 / £18.04 / £28.79
2010 / £25.15 / £17.31 / £25.40
2011 / £22.30 / £16.01 / £26.93
2012 / £22.25 / £16.87 / £29.37
2013 / £23.20 / £20.29 / £29.99
If you assume Scottish Labour would have a membership income somewhere in the range 20% below Scottish Greens to the same as the wider Labour Party, this would give ranges as follows:
2009 – 4887 to 9749
2010 – 4560 to 8364*
2011 – 3960 to 8326*
2012 – 3833 to 8341
2013 – 3856 to 7127
* Following the 2010 GE there were a lot of ‘join for a quid’ people so there may be many more than this.
For the 14,000 membership claimed, the party would need to have an annual membership income of £8.26 per member – which is possible, but highly unlikely given the per capita income across the party as a whole.
(The caveat to all this is that I don’t know whether the ‘membership income’ recorded against Scottish Labour consists of monies received direct from members/affililates, or whether subscriptions are paid to the national party with £8.26 per member then paid as a block back to the branch office.)
A positive for Labour in Scotland will be the activists from other pro union parties and groups that will no doubt assist them to defeat the evil SNP
[…] has become leader at a time when his party’s election prospects are at an all-time-low. Membership is thought to be around 7000 (compared to the SNP’s 80000) and voters in Scotland are more likely to equate Labour with […]
@A (reluctant) Labour Member
Very interesting. And it fits with all the evidence. If Labour membership in Scotland is less than half of what they claim, then you have to wonder about Labour UK.
@ A(reluctant) Labour Member
Thank you for that information, it’s very helpful.
One question-why are you a reluctant Labour Member? Don’t wish to be nosey but it seems an odd thing to call yourself, after all those who disagree with a party line/policies etc tend to vote with their feet.
Not Scottish born or based, for a start!
I’m a member of the Labour Party because it is important to some of those close to me that I’m able to attend and vote at meetings. While I dislike a lot of what the party is about at the moment and dislike even more many of its current and would-be elected representatives, it matters to me that I’m able to support them in their genuine desire to make a positive difference in the community where I live.
If I’d been in Scotland for the referendum I’d probably have joined up with Labour Yes (indeed, there was one, not that you’d have known for all the negativity our leadership spewed).
@Karmanaut – seems unnccessary to question membership stats included in the official return to the Electoral Commission, as that would imply a deliberate lack of good faith which might be illegal. There is no such return for Scottish Labour, and any information in the public domain is speculation.
(Edit – worked out what would be the definitive figures for summer 2010 leadership here: link to www2.labour.org.uk. If you strip out the English and Welsh constituencies and count only the number of ballot papers issued, there are 13099. Which makes claims of 14,000 today look somewhat fanciful though nationally membership has been pretty static at around 190,000 since 2010, so around 10,000 to take account of those lost due to the referendum campaign is probably a fair guess.)
@ A (reluctant) Labour Member
Wow-thanks for your reply-I didn’t really think I’d get an answer.
Not Scottish born or based- neither am I but I do believe in the right to self-determination which is why I supported Yes even though I didn’t have a vote.I provide support wherever I can.
I was a labour supporter for 40 years but I couldn’t bring myself to vote for them ever again after the 2003 London March against the Iraq War. I was one of the million marchers that Tony Blair dismissed as misguided.
That did it for me.
I live in a labour area but I will vote Green in May because I don’t have an alternative, like SNP,to vote for in England.
Yes Labour for Indy did really well but very few have returned to the Labour fold since the referendum. Many have moved on to Scottish Socialist Party or SNP. Some have launched The Left Project aiming to grow a mass movement rather than an actual political party.
Thank you for taking the time to respond-I do appreciate it.
Not in an area where the Greens are a credible alternative – and the Greens that are here are not your typical fluffy tree-hugging types.
I actually thought that a yes was in the best interests of England too – not from a desire to get shot, but because it would force us all to confront our broken and unrepresentative democracy and constitutional settlement, in the way Scotland has. Alas, a Scottish ‘yes’ means they get to pretend all is well and we just get tinkering round the edges.
@ A (reluctant) Labour member
Mine aren’t tree huggers thankfully but they stand no chance of beating a labour incumbent who has been our MP for years.
I was hoping for a yes too because I felt that Scots would be better running their own affairs but I also thought it might spur England on to challenge Westminster & the 3 moribund parties who seem to think they are entitled to their seat on the gravy train whilst everyone else can go hang.
The system is broken, we can’t believe a word the politicians say anymore and only the people can change that by working together as Scotland did. We don’t have a democracy if we ever had one. We’ve always been ruled by the rich & vested interests & they aren’t about to let go if they can help it.
Scotland won’t forgive labour for siding with the tories at Indyref but labour in England still have a slim chance to turn things around here but they won’t.
I’ve given up on labour now & plan to move to Scotland when I retire in 2 years.
Lollysmum says:
Welcome aboard. Oor Greens have grown out of hugging trees. Patrick Harvey is no Robin Harper.
[…] claim that Scottish Labour has “about 20,000? members is the one that leaps out immediately. By our calculations the true figure is closer to […]
[…] Over Scotland recently sat down and crunched the clues that have leaked out over the past months to deduce that the actual number is probably around […]
My cousin just back from visiting his son and daughter -in-law in Sweden who have had their first child,he said it is like living in another world,both parents get 6months paid leave so 1year taking both into account and 80% wages also style and pace of life far and away better than ours,we are constantly told that it is “pie in the sky” and should not be aspired to by us.
I suppose its entirely possible that if the campaign ‘Join Labour to vote for Murphy’ was in any way successful, and, given the low membership level of labour, a substantial amount of labour members might now be tory voters.
It will not matter if they only have 7000 members to knock on doors , becouse they will bus in thousands from RUK. Get ready for the mother of all invasion’s .
[…] of Scots at the time of the referendum, but they stand by it. New Labour, on the other hand? They cut their ties with the unions. They vow to be “tougher than the Tories” on welfare. They abandoned […]
It’s that old 13K again…
“The scale of the challenge facing Labour in Scotland was also reflected in membership figures obtained by the New Statesman. The magazine reported yesterday that the party had around13,000 members north of the Border, about a tenth the size of the SNP membership.”
[Source:
link to thenational.scot ]