A serious matter
Posted on
November 20, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Packed Labour benches for the devolution debate in the Commons today.
We’re sure Gordon Brown’s just nipped out for a Snickers or something.
[…] A serious matter […]
The (visual)contempt to which we are all held, here in good old WM revenue creating Scotland.
whooaah
how did they manage to entice all them in?
Syd
£300 a day + expenses.
The same story, in Wales as in Scotland. They still don’t get it.
Where are Gordon ‘Federal’ Brown and Alistair ‘Devo-Max’ Darling?
Is that wee Wullie Bain? Who are the rest of them?
Read the Newsnet article, Scottish Devolution and the Labour myth (Google that article). Important for understanding how devolution really got here.
Not Labour, but the Scottish-UN committee of SNP and interested individuals, and the Council of Europe forced it onto the UK. The UK did very badly in the democracy league tables.
They do not care because the steady drip drip drip of lies and nonsense published unthinkingly and unchallenged in the MSM will do their job for them. How do we balance the argument and have meaningful discussions with the undecided and switherers?
You have to love Angus McNeil he is hilarious ,I may even move to the Western Isles.He is my kind of MP.
They most likely had to beat them back with a stick at the doors.
Yes, that’s probably it…
Who knew?
It’s Westminster, what do you expect?
Wow, it’s packed to the roof today!
Can’t wait for AS to mess with their minds and expose their lies and desperation!
@ Gillie , great titles for Them .
I’ll shorten to Federal Broon an Devo Darling
Nae sign o Mags Current either !
We’ve put back into our little box. We’ve been dealt with, for a while. They have moved on.
Brown? Herald of a new dawn on devolution or a weapon to be used in a propaganda war? Perhaps his absence gives us an answer.
Devolution was intended to be a con. A few powers were to be sent North. The Calman commission and the submissions to Smith show the level of powers the Unionist believe we should get. Not very much.
Holyrood was supposed to stay in safe Unionist hands and they would implement policy dictated from London. At least that part of their plan went totally wrong!
But still, the just don’t take devolution seriously and will attempt to minimise the powers we are grudgingly given.
Of course, perhaps they are right! And devolution will inevitably lead to independence. Perhaps devolution IS a threat to their precious Union.
Hope something threatens their Union ASAP!
Guess what ? Nae sign o yesterday’s numpty KD !
Oops silly me wrong Parliament , boy it’s so confusing isn’t it Kezza ?
I’m oot o petrol !
Dominic Raab’s motion:
‘That this House recognises the outcome of the referendum on Scottish independence; welcomes the freely expressed will of the people of Scotland to remain British; notes the proposals announced by Westminster party leaders for further devolution to Scotland; calls on the Government and Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition to bring forward proposals that are fair and reasonable for the whole of the United Kingdom, following a period of public consultation to enable people in all parts of the Union to express their views; and, in particular, calls on the Government to ensure that such proposals include a review of the Barnett formula and legislative proposals to address the West Lothian question.’
Ed Miliband’s amendment:
‘Line 1, leave out from ‘independence;’ to end and add ‘notes the proposals announced by the UK party leaders for further devolution to Scotland and looks forward to these proposals being brought forward in line with the agreed timetable; notes the commitment made by the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition to the continuation of the Barnett allocation of resources and full representation for Scottish MPs in the UK Parliament; calls for a constitutional convention to be established in order to review and make recommendations in relation to future governance arrangements for the UK and for proposals for an elected Senate of the Nations and Regions to be brought forward to replace the House of Lords; and further calls for a new Scotland Bill and an English Devolution Bill to be brought forward in the next Parliament.’.’
– and five of the ten seem somewhat distracted!
Ian Murray makes me want to be sick.
The boy bang in the middle through my declining eyesight looks like Lewis fae Morse !!
Treacherous scumbags, why am I not surprised?
Gives me the boak just looking at them. My old mum’s care home bingo afternoons would have beat that turnout no problem.
You would not get a seat if it was for a pay rise. Contemptible bastards.
Labour have been a ball and chain around Scotlands ankles, their demise will give almost as much satisfaction as winning the ref.
WM are dealing with Scotland as if it is a regional problem and NO voters can take pride that the picture above shows more than any amount of hype about ” giving ” us more powers.
In the meantime they plunder our resources to pay off bankers and start wars .
Conscription must be next on the list as they are struggling to fill the ranks of our armed forces.
BETTER TOGETHER ???
Aye right
Roll on GE
Want to be able to eat my dinner this evening so stopped watching as the scunner Curren is in the frame.
Willie Bain must have filled out his expenses form early, but the others need to get theirs done before heading to North Britain for the weekend.
I don’t think there is any danger of increased political engagement extending to the Houses of Parliament – they’ve got far more important things to do than debate the future of the nation.
Smith Commission to report next week. They must have employed an army of speed readers to go through all those thousands of submissions.
The rumour is Scotland is to be offered Devo-Fuck-All.
@Stinky – letter to Gordon Smart editor of the Scottish Sun just now as follows;
I CHALLENGE YOU ALL TO A MSM LETTER WRITING CONTEST
Dear Sir
I was greatly surprised by Labour MP Margaret Curran’s attack on the hotel expenses of the 21 SNP Scottish Government Ministers via buzzfeed this week as her parting shot at Alex Salmond.
She claims that;
“In total, £80,000 has been spent on hotel rooms and subsistence alone for Alex Salmond and his ministers since he became First Minister in 2007.”
This means that Scottish Ministers have individually cost the taxpayer £49.50 per month, or all 21 Ministers ran the Scottish Government for £879 per month.
This contrasts with Margaret Currans own published expenses of over £180,000 annually, including £2932 per month being spent on accommodation and subsistence – almost 4 times more than the entire Scottish Government.
As I recall Ms Curran won her seat by only 365 votes over John Mason of the Scottish National Party in 2008,
If she has any hope of retaining her seat in the face of a 20% swing from Labour to the SNP, she would do well to remember the old adage that “people in glass houses should not throw stones”.
Yours
Cllr Cadogan Enright
Broon is so locked in the past that he’s probably still trying to buy a Marathon rather than a Snickers
[…] A serious matter […]
@Stinky – I’m just back from work and made it my business to send off this letter to the Daily Record.
(I note it is part of the Mail group which seems to have 18 other papers in Scotland – suggest that Scotland needs a ‘Concentration of Media Control Act’ to enhance democracy)
Dear Sir or Madam,
If the Labour Party and Daily Record are to effectively campaign against the SNP, they would need to deploy someone with a smidgin more grey matter than Kezia Dugdale.
In Ms Dugdales rant against the appointment of the new Scottish First Minister on Monday, she challenged Nicola Sturgeon to deliver on 3 key issues, none of which had been developed to the Scottish Parliament, namely;
1. “Take on the big six energy firms, forcing them to freeze bills and rein in eye-watering profits earned on the backs of working people.”
2. “Bring back the 50p tax rate for top earners, so those with the broadest shoulders carry their fair share.”
3. “Tax [bankers’] bonuses and use the cash to create jobs for young people.”
While I am sure that Nicola will attempt to deliver on these challenges without prompting from Ms Dugdale, it may not be in the manner which Kezia expects.
I note that in Kezia’s Lothian constituency the SNP won 8 of the 9 ‘first past the post’ seats in the Scottish Parliament in 2011, with Kezia limping in only as an ‘additional member’.
Given the 20% swing to the SNP from Labour ahead of the next Westminster election in May, Nicola Sturgeon will WIN over 40 MP’s and be likely holding the balance of power in Westminster.
This is the only likely scenario that Kezias 3 challenges can be met, as Labour is uniting with the Tories to break its ‘Vow’ to the Scottish Electorate on ‘Devo-Max’ and refusing to devolve these powers to Scotland.
Finally, speaking as a humble County Councillor, I would be too embarrassed to try and palm off this sort of rubbish on my local paper. If the Daily Record wants a hatchet job done on the SNP, surely they could find someone more competent than Ms Dugdale?
Yours etc
Cllr Cadogan Enright, Co. Down
(full telephone and address details here)
This is slightly off-topic but salient nonetheless. Does clicking a BBC link remunerate them in the same way it does newspapers?
What is there to debate?
Surely the promised Home Rule just needs rubber stamped?
What day next week is the Smith Commission reporting?
“What day next week is the Smith Commission reporting?”
Thursday, apparently.
It looks like a game of Where`s Wally in reverse.
The word is UK government ministers already know what is in the Smith Commission’s proposals ???????????? !!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like something is being set-up.
Muttley I may be wrong but I thought that Mr Smith, I refuse to use titles, has to report on St Andrews Day 30th November.
Cheers. Gillie, where are you getting your rumours from?
NO voters,you see here how well served you are by Westminster?
Better together,but can’t get together to solve the problems. Someone should ask where they all were today,probably moving on somewhere.
Just like when the revolution came,posted missing,but they’ll be wanting your slavish votes in May.
@Helena Brown
It cannot be the 30th, if it is next Thursday that Smith is reporting. Next Thursday is the 27th.
How many of the SNP MPs were in the chamber? Serious question…
After the 2015 election, if the prediction is accurate, there will be a few more SNP faces to represent us. That should ensure a much busier parliamentary debate and might encourage a few more Westminster elite to turn up and have their say.
Michael McCann Labour MP for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow speaking under orders from HQ in a sparsely attended House of Commons today in the Debate on Devolution and the Union, at around 4.25pm.
Typically he said, “I also remember the acrimony of the (Referendum) debate” and of how he “personally was abused every single day of the debate” and of how it created much division. “Levels of intimidation were unprecedented and that’s a high bar for me.”
“And despite the Yes Campaign and the SNP having every conceivable advantage including the serendipity of two SNP supporters winning the EuroMillions,” the No Campaign won recognising that the institutions of the UK were better able to withstand any ups and downs more than separated ones.
“Longterm stability in the distribution of resources across the United Kingdom”
“You should never underestimate the ability of the SNP as deceiptfull and mendacious opponents in any campaign.”
Michael McCann – a man with a record of bullying and abuse. An example of Labour’s historical political thuggery. An attack dog against the SNP on every occasion he speaks. Career politician and trougher, hoping to ride the gravy train all the way to the House of Lords. And habitual Labour Liar.
He represents everything that makes Labour an absolute disgrace to Scotland.
My favourite:-
“ despite the Yes Campaign and the SNP having every conceivable advantage including the serendipity of two SNP supporters winning the EuroMillions”
man, i feel 10 feet tall watching my countries future being decided in another country.
The present MP’s on the NO side will be rather angry now that opinion is now working against them and their seat may be on a shooglie nail. Ah bless ’em.
What I got out of that is one tory wants less seats in Scotland, 1 Welsh lab wants more welsh spoken and the Scottish lab want anything suggested by the SNP overruled. Blue tories yielded to red tories and vica versa but wouldn’t let SNP get a word in. SNP put up a good fight and Plaid Cymru supported them. The rest was mainly was drivel about Scotland overwhelmingly rejecting Independence, the next ref should be in at least 20 years, scrapping the Barnett formula and EVEL should be brought in. At the end of the debate the Baldy man walks in and tells everyone how it’s going to happen. A complete waste of time
These troughers will think that the BBC and the MSM can save them in May, just as those criminal organisations saved them in the indyref.
We must not let that happen.
To answer Para Handy’s question – at least 3. From what I saw, Angus MacNeil, Angus Robertson and Pete Wishart all made contributions to the debate.
David Cameron said today the VOWS legislation will be a matter for the next government.
In other words, if I heard him correctly, GE15 may well take place without the Electorate knowing the final outcome of the Smith Commission proposals after they have passed through Westminster.
Please somebody tell me I’ve got that wrong.
First they ignore you…
Deja vu anyone?
link to worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com
“We’re sure Gordon Brown’s just nipped out for a Snickers or something”
That would make it a Marathon session for Gordy (I’ll get me coat)
Much as I hate to say it, labour MPs seats on a shoogly nail, have those 2 million plus no voters gone away I doubt it, as during the ref they were silent, never engaged just waited to use the knife Im sure they will stab themselves and us at the first opportunity. The no mob found a formulae the msm the bbc and fear, it worked and they are going to make bloody sure it works better at the forthcoming elections.
It’s Thursday afternoon. Why would you expect ANY MPs to be present? Probably clocked in to register for the day’s expenses and wages, then shot off to one of their many homes for the weekend. It’s not like the future of our nation is important, after all.
Except, that story seems to be a myth. If you follow it up, there’s nothing there but a file of unanswered letters and some holiday snaps. The SNP had nothing to do with it either.
Ian Murray total disgrace, he needs a lake in Scotland named after him
R-type Grunt says:
20 November, 2014 at 4:43 pm
“This is slightly off-topic but salient nonetheless. Does clicking a BBC link remunerate them in the same way it does newspapers?”
Not as far as i know.
However, you should still archive any articles from them
before posting on WOS because they, like their allies in the
print media, have been known to change the wording of some
news items etc. So what a particular story might say at 8am,
could be substantially altered and different by 4pm.
Archiving any articles/links prevents this happening, apparently
Hope this helps.
“We’re sure Gordon Brown’s just nipped out for a Snickers or something.” Erm personally I think he has nipped out for something … like a flight to a far flung corner of the universe to tell anyone who will listen how he saved the universe! 😛
I am just so fking angry, and being overwhelmed with the urge to scream “I told you so” to every “proud Scot but” I know on an almost daily basis doesn’t ease the anger.
We all KNEW this would happen if we didn’t vote Yes. Back to the past, business as usual, forced to rely on the irrelevant games of Establishment commissions and the British Parliament for any new powers and progress.
Anyone up for a wee game of listing the actual new powers the Smith Commission will deem us worthy of being granted? C’mon, it won’t take much typing.
Do we know who attended?
What is London slab policy on fracking.I take it will be a pooling and sharing of corrupted water tables.
The Labour MPs thought the debate was about the “Evolution of the Onion”.
I’ll bet there is a lot of Snickering going on at Westminster. Behind Gordon’s back mostly. Never mind. As the old saying goes (almost), “He who Snickers last Snickers loudest.” Anyone seen my coat? 😀
Fracking in Scotland
is like using a Rembrandt as a chopping board.
Bugger,I have just had an e-mail from the SNP to say that there are always no shows at events and saying there might be a possibility of a seat .
I am too busy with a gas disaster ( North sea variety not my own)and I can’t take advantage of the possibility.
Hope others can.
Looks like they have put the referendum behind them and moved on. Just as well we haven’t and we wont let them forget it
manandboy 5.40pm
“In other words, if I heard him correctly, GE15 may well take place without the Electorate knowing the final outcome of the Smith Commission proposals after they have passed through Westminster.”
“Please somebody tell me I’ve got that wrong”
No, you are exactly right. No Party can make policy for a new parliament.
Even if all the main Parties agree on the VOW, they have NO power to put it into law. For the simple reason that they don’t know who will be in power after the May 2015GE.
Similar to the Conservatives offering an EU Referendum, they can only suggest that they will hold one, they can’t put it into law.
The whole set-up is a charade. All the more reason to get as many SNP MPs down to Westminster as we can in May.
Devolution – an account by James Wilkie writing in newsnetScotland.
(www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-opinion/4367-scottish-devolution-and-the-labour-myth)
A taster:
“So how did this vital intermediate step of devolution come to be realised, in the teeth of the determination of the entire London establishment right across the political spectrum to kill it at any and all cost? Here is one little-known aspect of the answer.
Establishment hostility reached its sordid peak with the orgy of corruption that was the 1979 referendum. It is not the subject of this article and there is no need to repeat facts that we all know. Thatcher’s arrogant coup d’état in the face of a perfectly adequate majority vote similar to that of the 1975 EEC referendum left Scotland stunned, bewildered and disorientated. It took a long time for the Scots to collect their wits and for the reaction to set in.
One early step in that reaction was the formation of the Scotland-UN Committee in the summer of 1979. Seething with anger, a group of SNP members and supporters, led by John McGill (FSA Scot.) of Kilmarnock, set out to take the whole issue of home rule to the United Nations and the other international authorities. I was invited to participate on the strength of my own vitriolic condemnation of the referendum scandal in the pages of The Scotsman and elsewhere.
The only member of the Labour Party who actively cooperated in the project was Dennis Canavan, while others like John Smith and Donald Dewar dropped the whole issue of devolution after Thatcher’s “repeal” of the Scotland Act, like something that was only “for discussion between consenting adults”, as the saying went at the time.
Members of Scotland-UN like John McGill (its founder and secretary), Pat Lang, John Law, David Young and others were among the most vociferous members of the Campaign for a Scottish Parliament, and it was Scotland-UN that in 1979 first proposed the creation of a Scottish Constitutional Convention.
The Convention finally took shape after an article by myself in the December 1983/January 1984 issue of the magazine Radical Scotland had laid out its structure and procedures. It also took over much of what Scotland-UN had already devised, like “Scotland’s Claim of Right to Self-Determination”, the title of the second Scotland-UN submission to the United Nations in August1980. An account of what can be revealed to date can be read on the Internet in the Scotland-UN Papers at http://www.realmofscotland.com . ( Unavailable online seemingly)
No, no, no PC they didn’t think the debate was about the “Evolution of the onion.’ They thought the debate was about the “Evolution AND the onion.” 😛
Cadogan Enright
Loved the letters. 🙂 Brilliant . Put a big smile on my sour face. Thanks. 🙂
Like the cowards we know they are, Brown and Darling lobbed their hand grenades right into the heart of the Referendum debate, then turned and ran, never to be seen again.
And we are left to deal with the aftermath.
Two self serving cowards who lied for the Union.
Wee Jock poo pong Macplop says
““We’re sure Gordon Brown’s just nipped out for a Snickers or something”
That would make it a Marathon session for Gordy (I’ll get me coat)”
I take it the Topic wasn’t to his liking?
I’ll eh just get my double coat of sumptuous chocolate. 🙂
More or less O/T, but can anyone enlighten me on this news about a Labour MP tweet that causes such a turmoil (see, eg, the website of the Guardian)? I think I lack a British reference. Thanks.
Has FMs question time been changed without consultation.Sally McNair says Nicola Sturgeon faced cross examination today. Naws Sally theirs naebody in Slab/Con/LibD,has the intellect to cross examine Nicola.
Lesley-Anne 6.39pm
No, no, no PC they didn’t think the debate was about the “Evolution of the onion.’ They thought the debate was about the “Evolution AND the onion.”
Lesley-Anne, are you trying to bring a tear to our eyes with all this talk of “onions”
lol.
On a positive note is it not fantastic that we live in the 21st century and this demonstration of political contempt and disrespect for the electorate can be exposed and shared quite easily? (Not disrespecting Stu’s excellent journalistic eye)
Hate to think what lies we have been telt these last 100 years.
And where is Gordon Brown? He is my MP (unfortunately)
Joke
Every Wings get-together has had more people xx
@ Cadogan Enright says:
A great letter but far too long for Daily Record if you have any hope of it being printed. Last time I looked (it was many years ago to get their take on a controversial football match) their standard letter was no more than two short paragraphs.
I watched all of David Cameron’s appearance before the Liaison Committee this morning at Westminster(90mins)
(www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/liaison-committee/news/evidence-with-pm-20-11-14-subject/)
While I listened to the words he spoke, I also asked myself the question ‘what is this man doing?’
Without further ado, and as if he had heard me, the PM provided at least part of the answer when he spoke of how he wanted an agreement among all the parties, and with that characteristic spreading of the hands, he motioned gently downwards as if flattening a pillow, while using the phrase “settle down”.
He thereby stated his overall purpose – not just for the meeting but for the entire Referendum issue and it’s fallout. He wanted the whole country to settle back down.
But there was more.
From the outset, his face looked more tense than in repose, as if he was a little worried. And throughout the 90 minutes his mood only lightened on a few occasions.
He just didn’t come across at any time as if the Referendum was OK and had been decided ‘fair and square’.
It is my view that had IndyRef been fair and square, then Mr Cameron would have made at least several references to the fact.
I also believe that with a genuinely democratic result under his belt, with no hanky panky whatever, he would have been far more confident and relaxed in his whole presentation from start to finish.
Instead, he was like a defence lawyer presenting the case on behalf of his guilty client.
But then as a Yes voter, I would say that wouldn’t I?
@Cadogan Enright great letters! To the point. Thank you.
McCann (EK) is typical Labour, cast in the image of his useless parasite predecessor Adam Ingram, for whom he was election agent. Another one I would love to see cast onto the scrapheap of history.
Some of the local Labour apologists scribbling into our local paper this week (Rutherglen Reformer). They must be rattled after a recent letter took the piss out of their grassroots campaigning (one MP, one MSP, three cooncillors and a solitary civilian). In fact, one of the scribblers was another Cooncillor. They are shitting themselves, no question.
Auld A
link to twitter.com
When will Labour supporting No voters realise they are nothing more than useful idiots? Chumps.
@ronnie
Nicola’s first FMQ’s……
link to scottishparliament.tv
No Crash and the Flipper. They’ll be back to flog their devo nothing fraud to whatever’s left of Labour in Scotland now. The fact is Scots may not be ready to vote Yes for Scotland but we do want devo max. BBC in Scotland and shysters like the Daily Heil/Record have the real battle on their hands again.
@ JayR 6pm, that,ll be He Haw then sounds like a Me Maw but withoot the flashing lights.
Looking at that picture,
I take it there are no programmes on telly that have “The Great British” in their titles on telly?
John King 6:58pm
Gordon Brown’s Snickers:
John reading your humour,I knew you were Bounty come out with a great quip like that.
I’ll get my coat..
@ Croompenstein thanks Croomp ah seen it live,had to cut short Camerons speech to the commons committee.
Conversation with Professor John Robertson
Starts at 7.00pm livestream.
Oops 8.00pm.
Brown nicked out to buy a Daily Record but no newsagent would take his Scottish tenner.
When is it McCann’s due to appear in court, to answer for his physical abuse of a schoolboy?
@:sydthesnake says: 20 November, 2014 at 3:04 pm:
“whooaah! How did they manage to entice all them in?”
Och! Syd, it’s just the camera angle of the photo. The rest of them are massed, (standing room only), to the righ in the shot.
Aye!
Richt!
Dunno whether you saw this ronnie but I liked this well worth a watch, toodle-oo-the noo and Alex go back a long way…
link to bbc.co.uk
A Labour politician who owns several houses and a main £3Million Pound house. Thinks the St. George flag is “British”.
A Snobby, ignorant veiled attack on UKIP.
The party of the people huh!
link to order-order.com
@ John King we,re living through a programme the noo its The Great British RAKE OFF an it has mair twists an turns than a Curlywurly,to cauld tae go oot, i’ll hide under the bed.
Can I just run something past my fellow wingers. Something is wrong. Today there were the usual predictable things like S.N.P. bad. We must keep our promises. NOTHING should have been agreed without Parliament etc. But something is concerning me. When Angela Eagles was speaking about Labour bringing in legislation next year if they win to devolve power to all regions in the U.K. MARGARET CURRAN WAS SITTING BESIDE HER SMILING!! Now this concerns me as she is not a fan of devolving anything. I began to think. Labour know that they are probably in trouble in Scotland, hence the venom of Labour M.P.S. If I wanted to deny power to a government I hated how would I go about diminishing their ability to rule. Deny them decision making over finance, tax, and a host of other things currently being studied by Smith Commission. Labour stated that they would bring devolution to areas and regions in the next year if they win the election, but Eagles did not specifically state England. How would this work if she also meant large cities like Glasgow etc. Could Holyrood prevent this? I know this seems a bit wild but many Labour M.P.S TODAY seemed too resigned to losing Scotland, and knowing politicians that concerns me.
link to snp.org
Sounds like the only issue concerning Scotland for Tory MPs is, how to scrap Barnett and get ‘excess’ Scottish expenditure down.
As for the Vow, they don’t feel tied by it in any way.
WM 2015 let’s stick it right up’em!
@Grendel says: 20 November, 2014 at 6:01 pm:
“Do we know who attended?
Such information can always be found out as everything that goes on in the actual chamber is recorded by Hansard.
Here’s a link : –
link to parliament.uk
No no no Yes says
“Gordon Brown’s Snickers:
John reading your humour,I knew you were Bounty come out with a great quip like that.
I’ll get my coat..”
You little MALTEASER you,
Gordon left because he would have FUDGEd the issue
and spent all his time in the MILKY BAR (being a son o the manse he’ll be tee total),
and he would have taken his wee YORKIE (it was AFTER EIGHT ysee) for walkies besides he needed a CHOMP,
He probably got on a DOUBLE DECKER to BOURNVILLE, having picked up ROSES for his CARAMEL BUNNY,then he’ll probably take her out for some TIME OUT and a TWIRL,
Ohhh god help this thing doesn’t have any brakes,
I cannae stoap HEEEELLLLPPP
@Marcia:
Thanks! In fact, I hadn’t see a picture, just a description of it, and it was written in a quite abstruse way: “a picture of a white van parked outside a modern terrace with the crosses of St George festooned over the front.”
First, I didn’t know that the “Cross of St-George” was the flag of England (booooh, shame on me). And then, the sentence is rather obscure as to what is festooned where.
I first read the article on my smartphone and the picture itself did not appear. Then I reread it on my computer, and it became crystal clear.
Thanks for the link!
Sorry about the tears Caz I just hope all this onion talk is bringing out tears of joy and not tears of saddness. 😉
That’s what I mean by it being unsubstantiated. James Wilkie has been posting this for years now, and it seems to have no basis in actual fact. In about 2008 he was telling anyone who would listen that it was a big story that was going to come out very shortly, but of course nothing ever did.
If you follow up the documents he has deposited with the National Library you find they consist of basic background texts (such as the text of the Declaration of Arbroath), generic expressions of support from various people who weren’t themselved involved in any way, a collection of letters James and his friends sent to the Council of Europe and other European bodies, and a few one-line acknowledgements of receipt.
There are also some holiday snaps and an itinerary documenting a trip James and his friends took to present their case, but no documentation of any response being received from any EU or UN body.
It’s a construct put together out of almost nothing. There’s no reason to doubt that James and his friends actually made the representations they claim to have made, but there isn’t the slightest shred of evidence anyone paid any attention to them, or that any events were influenced as a result of their interference.
No No No and JK will you guys hold off on all this chocolate bar talk you are making me feel hungry. 😛 In fact just for your continual chocolatising of this discussion you can both meet me on the other side of the Galaxy … Boom Boom! 😛 Coat grabbed and I’m out the door!
Ronnie Anderson says
“@ John King we,re living through a programme the noo its The Great British RAKE OFF”
I would have laughed like a drain at that one Ronnie, trouble is its too close to the truth and it aint funny! Anyway I like it Ronnie, 🙂
Irene wants to know if your going to Glasgow on Saturday?
Bob Mack says:
20 November, 2014 at 8:24 pm
Can I just run something past my fellow wingers. Something is wrong. Today there were the usual predictable things like S.N.P. bad. We must keep our promises. NOTHING should have been agreed without Parliament etc. But something is concerning me. When Angela Eagles was speaking about Labour bringing in legislation next year if they win to devolve power to all regions in the U.K. MARGARET CURRAN WAS SITTING BESIDE HER SMILING!! Now this concerns me as she is not a fan of devolving anything. I began to think. Labour know that they are probably in trouble in Scotland, hence the venom of Labour M.P.S. If I wanted to deny power to a government I hated how would I go about diminishing their ability to rule. Deny them decision making over finance, tax, and a host of other things currently being studied by Smith Commission. Labour stated that they would bring devolution to areas and regions in the next year if they win the election, but Eagles did not specifically state England. How would this work if she also meant large cities like Glasgow etc. Could Holyrood prevent this? I know this seems a bit wild but many Labour M.P.S TODAY seemed too resigned to losing Scotland, and knowing politicians that concerns me.
The man in the big chair had to tell her to shut up because she was interrupting one of her own! She was blethering away and blissfully unaware who was speaking, let alone aware about what they were speaking about. Nothing new there then.
Bob Mack @ 8.24
We all know what those bastards are up to and its to “devolve” all the power they want to “devolve” straight to the local councils bypassing Holyrood,
can you imagine the idiots in (insert local council here) having control over billions of pounds of expenditure? GOD HELP US ALL” tram projects and vanity projects all over Scotland,
WHILE PEOPLE STARVE.
john king
aye you’re right there, f/localism, and local income taxes.
Lesley-Anne says
“Coat grabbed and I’m out the door!”
Your coat,
White or dark chocolate buttons?
@ John n Irene King I will indeed be there on Sat Wings Banner outside entance.
John King @8:34 I think you have just won the Smartie award for that post John. 😛
Morag at 8.41
Thanks. I thought we’d heard the last of that concoction years ago
@John King
Agreed, Difficult one to fight though unless as you rightly point out we have some kind of register of how Local councils have screwed up before. I can imagine the problems of more affluent areas surging ahead of those more financially challenged shall we say. Holyrood would obviously become defunct with no need of national control. Some way down the line perhaps several years the whole thing would be deemed a failure and taken back under the wing of Westminster, (and the old guard) but with no reinstatement of Holyrood. That is how these evil ba…ds think and plan ahead.
Pete Wishart on todays farce…
link to snp.org
Cash for honours new evidence…
link to snp.org
@ Bob Mack
I was saying this in the thread yesterday. The will be an effort made to devolve power from the centre (Westminster) to ALL the cities. In this way, the Local Authorities will take on more powers than the Scottish government currently has. This will effectively sideline SG. EU has been pressurising WM for years on devolving power closer to the people & includes income taxes which they won’t consider giving to SG.
In doing this they head off any future attempts at Independence for Scotland & Wales. With power devolved to city regions, WM will be complying with EU demands to fall into line with how European countries are run but it also ensures security of funding the monolith which is Westminster & the troughers future incomes as each region will have to remit monies to WM to cover their costs along with foreign affairs & defence.
The Lords won’t be disbanded-turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. Disbanding upper chamber will require it’s members agreements.They certainly aren’t going to vote themselves off the gravy train are they? I’m not sure that invoking the Parliament Act to override any Lords decision would be applicable in this case and the monarchy would not agree to losing the aristocracy (or should I say kleptocracy) which characterises the majority of the upper chamber.
My coat is dark in colour John with white chocolate buttons. The buttons are, naturally, covered in hundred’s and thousand’s. 😀
manandboy
Oops! I forgot to mention John that my coat was bought in Quality Street many moons ago! 😛
Scotland will become independent within the next few years, the Union is falling to pieces.
Just watch the contributions of the MPs on the House of Commons Liaison Committee today.
The Smith Commission will not deliver anything that satisfies the 45% and the pro-extra powers “proud Scots” and will cause further resentment.
People and politicians in England and Wales are unhappy, want more and resent any extra power Scotland will get. Their resentment will increase.
The Union is on its last legs. Lets work to break them both!
Ronnie
If I can get tickets Ill see you there but if you’ll be at the door with the banner it should be easy to get someone with spares to leave them with you. 🙂
@ Morag 8.41
The reason that no proof is forthcoming, according to James Wilkie, is that all FOI requests are denied and the relevant background papers are buried forever in Whitehall. See the Newsnet article referred to above.
link to newsnetscotland.scot
Similar to the situation of the 1974/75 Wilson government and claims of MI5 interference in the Scottish independence debate. While papers are normally embargoed for 30 years, some referring to these issues have a 50 year embargo. So it will be 2026 before they are released.
We need tae caw aff the Chocolate jokes the price is gonna go through the roof,awe weil its no the 1st time av’d sucked on Hard Luck Candy.
Caution on your quip Paula Rose you know whit the Revs like,hee hee.
@ lOLLYSMUM
YES, GREAT ANALYSIS AND I AGREE WITH IT ALL,BUT WHAT TO DO ? SURELY NICOLA IS AWARE OF THIS POTENTIAL TRAP? WE MAY WELL BE RUNNING OUT OF OPTIONS TO U.D.I., UNLESS OF COURSE THE SNP WINS ALL COUNCIL SEATS IN SCOTLAND AND FORMS SOME KIND OF CONFEDERATION WITH REMIT OF COMMON INTEREST. DIFFICULT SITUATION.
Dave, we kind of have heard the last of it. There haven’t been any changes to that web site for a long time, and even when it was set up it was just a web posting of old material that James Wilkie had been on about for years before that.
The thing is the material is still there, to be read, and people read it. They read it and they post links and pass on breathless messages like “James Wilkie should be given Scotland’s highest honours!” (that was someone who first found the stuff in 2011).
It’s plausible, and if nobody points out that there’s actually no substance to it, people naturally believe it.
I questioned the story on the old Herald comments boards about six years and James Wilkie himself came on the thread and became really nasty. All I was doing was asking him for some evidence that anyone had done anything as a result of what he did, but he became abusive. First he claimed to know who I was, said I was an associate of Alastair Campbell, and I was a journalist looking for a story. Then he threatened me with legal action. For askeing him for evidence. Of course he didn’t do anything.
So it’s all pretty stale, but people who just found the material don’t know that, and tend to propagate it.
Bob Mack
(feudal) fiefdoms, who needs ’em?
they lose sense of common weal, and as you say need to be resisted.
( Ronnie honey, can we do that special thing with hairy string again? shudder with delight)
John King 8:34pm
Sorry I missed your retort about GBrown Choc and biscuits. Ha ha. I was watching Alex the rebel on iplayer. VGood considering it was BBC. Torrance and his tank top vile in equal measure.
Final thought about Broon and his Double Decker- it is like the Labour party, it has Wagon Wheels and they are falling off. Meanwhile The new SNP leader has had a Boost in the polls. She is pure Gold and in an exclusive Club.
Frank Field lab MP said something today in that debate had my ears prick up. To finish the West Lothian Question off for good he thinks the four countries should have their own parliament running their own affairs, with a senate (he called it that) made up of proportionate reps from the countries.
If anyone hear Field speak did I pick him up correctly.
Looks like UKIP have won the by election down south. The Guardian are saying even some Tories think they have lost the seat. We can look forward to yet more dog whistle politics from SLAB and the Tories here as a result.
Mutley
On sky newspaper review re snobby labour multi millionaire shadow attorney general it was pointed out that Labour won Rochester in 2005 and is kind of seat they need to win to have any chance next May.
Oh well Scotland Tonight and Scotland 2014 both think there is bugger all wrong with fracking so we now know the official establishment viewpoint Milliband will amble in with same viewpoint and Slab will do as it’s told.
@ Paula Rose Steaming the Hairy String over the kettle tae put the curl back in as we speak.
Question Time on now.
Australia is being held up as good and bad. Australia treats immigrants like dogs and puts them on an island. We do not have islands like they do.
Lady in red dress shouts “Scotland”
So not only we are to be recipients of cast offs from Eastenders but……
As said before Scotland with its minority status and less dense population will get fracked to shit.
In the meantime, how much fracking will happen in Surrey? Sussex? Hampshire? Dorset?
NIMBY …. they are famous for it.
Well I’m heading off for a hot chocolate now. Here’s one, wee bit o/t, to help you all get a good nights sleep. The Donald Dewar debater of year in Scottish Politician Awards 2014 is Ruth Davidson. Runners up Patrick Harvie & Alex Salmond. Gotta be a joke.
The world is run by madmen and women.
Ruth Davidson debater of the year and Emily Thornberry resigns for a thought crime, sleep tight.
@ james Caithness,
Yes you did indeed hear him profer this idea .Quite a change.
Ruth Davidson? Crikey, who, what the heck?
Obviously, as in many areas of life it is not talent, or intelligence, which is honoured, but brassneck, or worse. Still, we all know that truth and integrity wins the day, eh?
Capella, well, we’ll see. The problem is that everything about that story emanates from James Wilkie and a couple of friends of his, who appointed themselves to go and lobby the UN and latterly the EU, many years ago. There’s not the slightest evidence their efforts had any effect, and believe me I looked.
Of course it’s all being embargoed and kept secret, and it will all come out one day. He’s been saying that for years too. Time will tell, but after all I’ve seen, and the abuse I was handed from the gentleman himself on the old Herald boards, I’ll be mighty surprised if there’s the slightest substance to it.
The Herald is just trolling now. Or it should admit these “awards” are simply run on the principle of Buggins’ Turn.
( my hero – Ronnie xx )
And if you thought that was bad, swallow this one, Lifetime Achievement Award is Alistair Darling in Scottish Politician of Year awards. yeuchhhhh.
@ Bob Mack
I share your concerns but I don’t think I know enough about Scottish govt powers & legal procedures to be able to say whether there will be any blocking tactics available. Greater minds than mine will be looking at tactics for a whole range of scenarios that could happen as a result of GE15.
It would be difficult to see how any meaningful legislation could be introduced by WM before the countries of the UK go to the polls as I understand that some prospective bills have already been refused time for debate in the Commons prior to May.
There is always the possibility of setting aside time already committed for other legislation just so that a Devolution Bill could be rushed through however I don’t think that Cameron will risk that as we know that rushed bills usually results in bad & often unworkable laws.
The best way of getting the best deal for Scotland hinges on SNP doing better than they’ve ever done before in GE15. A wipeout of the main Westminster parties in Scotland gives SNP mandate to declare that WM has no mandate from the people of Scotland to govern Scotland, irrespective of the indyref result which is an entirely different type of competition so the 2 results cannot be linked. WM cannot put forward indyref result as being that mandate as they are already stressing over it’s result.
Other countries are starting to question the validity of the result & are already starting to believe that Scotland was cheated out of it’s right to choose it’s own future due to collusion of WM, public & print media, business vested interests etc. They don’t want to see the indyref result being looked at in a court of law because they wouldn’t be able to forecast the outcome with certainty. Indyref has already shown WM govt to be full of idiots for the way their campaign was mismanaged, their own campaign leader has said on the record that they wouldn’t have won without Project Fear.
Basically WM has been shamed & ridiculed on the world stage & they just want the fuss to go away. All YESSERS & indy parties & groups need to make sure that fuss doesn’t die down or go away.The key to this is the one thing they fear most-PEOPLE POWER. They have no idea how to combat this because UK normally has a passive electorate believing everything it’s told. Not any more & that goes for England as well as Scotland & Wales to some extent. People are challenging power elites so WM has battles on it’s hands from all countries of the electorate.
WM struggled to contain indyref in just one country-Scotland but for GE15 challenges will come from all countries. Assuming all the Celtic countries do well in election, they could form an alliance (where every country stands to gain from that grouping together)they could be even more powerful in WM than Scotland would be standing alone. As a combined voting bloc they could make it extremely difficult for main parties to pass any legislation so instead of a hung parliament it’s possible to end up with a lame duck parliament which is unable to do anything as smaller parties collude to talk bills out of time-aka gerrymandering. Alex prefers using parliamentary rules against WM-don’t be surprised if he does so again.
SO-everyone has to do their bit. Can’t leave it all up to SNP. They have to remain squeaky clean & responsible to encourage voters to see them as a safe place for their votes. Alternative media has the ability & freedom to challenge MSM as irreverently but accurate as possible & can do it better than MSM if the prize is worth it. This means voters using their phones to film more activity, debunk lies, post on YouTube, Twitter & Facebook and any other medium & above all people need to ‘sell’ to other people the necessity of voting out WM parties. Then you will see what people power in parliament means.
I don’t believe there is any other way to do it.
They gave Johann Lamont Debater of the Year last year. What a joke
O/T exit poll on English by election. only 100 people but looking like bad news for the libdems
Ukip – 49%
Conservative – 29%
Labour – 16%
Greens – 6%
Liberal Democrats – 0%
Now all we need is for the Scottish People to go the same way with Branch Office Labour for getting into bed with the tories.
On Same newspaper that I picked the Exit poll up, following story :-
Meanwhile, it was announced at 10.30pm that shadow attorney Emily Thornberry had resigned from the shadow cabinet hours after tweeting a picture from Rochester of a white van parked outside a house draped in Union Flags.
The tweet was captioned simply ‘Image from Rochester’ but was dubbed patronising and condescending by critics.
Have a look at the article and you will see the photo’s see any Union Flags, No, not me either but three St Georges Crosses… Not only do they confuse England with Britain but they are now confusing the flag of England with the Flag of the Union..
link to archive.today
@James Caithness
Frank Field tends to think outside everyone else’s boundaries. He comes up with some very good ideas at times but no government in recent years has had the political will to take them forward.
How are these jokers even allowed to get away with this nonsense and all there lies !!! It will soon be clear for the world to see that they are full of empty promises to which led them to win a no vote , this can only be seen as a crime against humanity and no snickers bar will ever change that.
@ Lenny Hartley
It isn’t just the flags though. It’s also the fact that there’s a white van parked there. ‘White van man’ is a derogatory term used throughout England. At one time the St George’s flags & the white van were used as a visual description for not very bright but vociferous people i.e. BNP, EDL & latterly Kippers.
Twitter says “Early count tallies indicate the Liberal Democrats might be in seventh place behind the Monster Raving Loony Party.”
Please, please let this be true….
@ Lollysmum
Things falling into place now , as one of the expressions I have regularly heard from S.N.P. representatives over the past few days ,on about five occasions is that there could be another referendum if the people indicated they wanted it. This would concur with what you say and makes me think planners are well ahead of me with regard to possible devolution outcomes. Reassuring.
For me, this exchange sums up why the Tories need to be consigned to the dustbin of history in Scotland – permanently:
Pete Wishart (SNP):
Is it the view of Tory Back Benchers, therefore, that the vow is not even worth the price of the paper it was written on?
Sir Gerald Howarth (Conservative):
That is a very stupid question. The constitutional point is that the leaders of the three parties made a commitment, but they are not in a position to deliver upon that commitment, because it is both Houses of Parliament that make the laws. We do not live in a state where it is the divine right of kings to rule. It is subject to the will of Parliament, and Parliament therefore has to decide on these matters.
So, as predicted, the vow is utterly meaningless. And remember folks – remember, it wiz the Daily Record wot did it!
Can the Libdems afford the deposit for all the constituencies?
If the LD’s are seventh in an English by-election it shows the collapse of the morale of the LD activists who before 2010 were always claiming, “Winning here”. Soon it will be , “whining here”.
@ Lollysmum
Care to outline even one of Frank Field’s good ideas? So far as I am concerned he is an architect of the new labour approach to welfare: that is, he is a complete tosser who is hailed as an expert on the subject by the red tories (and the blue tories)
He is a member of a free market think tank and considers Margaret Thatcher a “hero”. He supports reinstating national service. The Telegraph likes him
Are we talking about the same person?
“We in the center that cannot hold can only watch as things fall apart.
The Second Coming by William Butler Yeats
and explained by Charles Hugh Smith in the Kaiser Report.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
The falcon can no longer hear the falconer describes our disintegrating era well.
The politicos can no longer hear the people they supposedly serve.
Concentrated wealth no longer heeds any falconer; it is free to exploit its power in the market and the halls of government.
Unconstrained by an inner falconer of integrity, many seek to game the system to maximize their private gain by any means available.
Market manipulators, equally unconstrained, ceaselessly rig markets for their private gain and the benefit of their cronies.
The circular gyres have been widening for years, and the commands of the public, of common sense, of personal integrity and of a transparent, open market grow fainter and fainter.
The notion that the falconer should be heeded has been lost. There are no limits on greed, power, exploitation, fraud, misrepresentation, manipulation of markets or the issuance of lies to further a con, pass legislation or boost the value of a security.
As Yeats observed, we live in an era of faked sincerity and threadbare melodramas played for public consumption: those apologizing for their lies lack all conviction, while those seeking to rouse a partisan mob are full of phony passion.
Disillusioned with the pillaging and predation of our supposed leaders who have circled away from all constraint, we in the center that cannot hold can only watch things fall apart as the orderly universe operated by the few at the expense of the many dissolves (in Aldous Huxley’s phrase) into a world of planless incoherence.”
Read more at link to maxkeiser.com
O/T
I came across this wee poem while looking for some old documents needed to fill in a form. I had to OCR it from a rather worn and tattered scrap of paper. Here it is for a laugh. I wrote it just as we got our very first modern parliament. Even before Holyrood was built.
Haw! Whit About Ma Ceevil Richts?
Ah dinna ken wha Ah shud blame,
Kiz naebody telt iz it the schuil
Bit noo wi aa hae devolution
Kin wi no chinge tae aa new rule?
Kin wi gan back,(whaur aince wi cam frae),
An spak wir ain leid syne wi yaised tae?
Wi MSPs, (at wir ain midden),
Sent bi iz aa tae dae wir biddin.
Noo MSP’s ye maun tak tent.
An mind hoo, bi iz, ye wir sent.
Tae dae whit wi aa want ye tae.
Fir wi maun vote anither day.
Ah‘m mair nor saxty year auld noo
Bit canna spell guid Scots – kin you?
Kiz bi the schuil, when Ah wiz wee,
The dominie wad syne mak free
An gied iz sax upon oor hand
Kiz spakin Scots, in schuil, wiz banned
Ah aye thoucht then, see weel Ah micht,
Haw! Whit about Ma Ceevil Richt?
Noo MSPs ye maun tak tent.
An mind hoo bi iz ye wir sent.
Tae dae whit wi a want ye tae.
Fir wi maun vote anither day.
Ah mibbie cud gaun tae the law.
Bit mibbie no, ata, ava.
Ah cudna pey it frae ma pension.
See syne Ah wadna get a mention.
An even noo, it micht bi said,
Ah mibbie cud get legal aid.
Mair like Ah wull tae jile be sent.
Bi numpties frae our Pairliment.
Noo MSPs ye maun tak tent.
An mind hoo bi iz ye wir sent.
Tae dae whit wi aa want ye tae.
Fir wi maun vote anither day.
Bi Auld Bob Peffers.
Ah’m awa tae ma lair noo fir ah’m fair forfochen.
Guid nicht aa – Err! Mornin aa.it is noo.
@ Lollysmum
Care to outline even one of Frank Field’s good ideas? So far as I am concerned he is an architect of the new labour approach to welfare: that is, he is a complete tosser who is hailed as an expert on the subject by the red tories (and the blue tories)
He is a member of a “free market think tank”, and considers Margaret Thatcher a “hero”. He supports reinstating national service. The Telegraph likes him. He is in agreement with Nadine Dorres on abortion.
Are we talking about the same person?
@ Fiona
Agree about Frank Field. He used to campaign for the Child Poverty Action Group (about 30 years ago). But then became very right wing and was in the same camp as Melanie Phillips for some time.
A loose cannon I would say.
Nice to see that exit polls are back in vogue…….
Must just be when there’s a bit of fixing to be done that they forget to do them.
Pretty well deserved I think for Davidson and a non-controversial and non-divisive choice. She steered a safe path during the Ref, supporting the NO as she would ahve been completely expected to do, but not going overboard about it.
I also personally think it’s a good result for us. There will be some NO voters who’ll think Salmond or Harvie should have won, and it can help to make them more open.
Salmond’s won loads of awards, and Harvie is up and coming.
@lollysmum great post I was feeling a bit down after the HoC disgraceful debate. Can I ask how do you know that certain countries are aware we were cheated over the ref. I’d like to have a read at any articles on this. Thanks 😉
yesindyref2 – Ruth simply did what she was told and left it to ‘Scottish Labour’ (sic) to do the running. It wouldn’t have suited the Unionists to have a Tory sticking her head above the parapet.
Enjoying the by-election special. The UKIP woman is running rings around the rest of them, and the Tory guys are sensibly keeping mum, to coin a phrase. UKIP are claiming the centre ground, which has been obvious from what Farage has been saying as well.
Interesting comment from Neil earlier on about the GE being a whole load of by-elections. I think this is very possible, UKIP success could help this along, and I think the by-election theme could help the SNP chances. It encourages a change from the vote by lifetime habit, and in fact, encourages a “protest vote”.
Jack Beck/Scotus
Indeed: “The Labour Party branch office in Scotland: my part in its downfall”, by Ruth Davidson.
@Cadogan Enright
Uh, you may want to check a few things in your letter. John Mason won the by-election in 2008, but lost the following election in 2010 to Curran by over 10,000 votes on the back of a desperate attempt by Scottish people across the country to keep the Tories out of power by voting labour…which has now proven to be a total fallacy.
Its a good letter, but if you are posting it to newspapers, it needs to be accurate or they will have a field day with it.
Stuart
“People should fly the England flag [St George] with pride,” says Labour MP. Thornberry.
Compare with furore over Salmond and Saltire …
The no camp that voted for Westminster: Ukip, Orange Lodge and BNP et al.
OT but I just visited the DT site and that cretin Cochrane’s “article”
I know that I shouldn’t have bothered – what a fuckwit and he gets paid for that ordure and allowed to pontificate on BBBC Scotland.
I look forward to his demise with relish and that of his equally lovely wife.
However , my concern is for Ms Sturgeon and how we protect her from the kind of personal onslaught endured by Mr Salmond . I have no doubt she is a tough cookie but why should she have to put up with idiot ramblings of those who opine in the media – particularly the weel kent chunterers like Cochrane , Crichton , Carroll, Gardham and the tank top wearing Torrance ?
I may have said this several times but I truly loathe these despicable empty vessels – parasites all.
May they rot along with BBBC Scotland.
On another note , my husband has recognised the ineffectual, idiotic ,blatant propaganda and drivel once known as the Glasgow Herald for what it is – a posh Daily Record with only slightly better spelling and grammar.
Brown is seen internationally as a joke. Arrogant, ignorrant, overbearing, clumsy, Brit Nat, so why does this severely flawed character carry so much influence in Scotland, or rather with the ‘media’ in Scotland
Dorothy Divine says
“However , my concern is for Ms Sturgeon and how we protect her from the kind of personal onslaught endured by Mr Salmond .”
Im not sure how we can,
but I would be first to man the barricades to defend her,
this helplessness is getting very frustrating,
surely there is some sort of legal recourse we can take to prevent those lying bastards?
short of taking over the Scotsman that is,hmmm.
Libdems got 349 votes in the byelection yesterday.Thats less than 1%.
Kippers are of the breakfast menu in the HoC,& watch out for Camerons next expences claim, he lost the kitchen sink in Rochester & Strood so,s he,s gonna hiv tae buy a dishwasher.
Vote No – get UKIP
@Dorothy
You can’t I’m afraid, it’s part of the job. If the media and their party handlers decide on a hatchet job then as we’ve already seen, they’ll make it their number one priority. As a public figure you can only make their job easier or harder by how you perform in your given role.
They’ll go after Nicola the same way they went after Alex, but on the upside less people are likely to have any faith in what the meeja spout these days. They’ve dealt themselves a near terminal injury with their behaviour over the space of the campaign and their worth was pretty well damaged before that thanks to the Leveson inquiry.
Hopefully now that people have become more aware than ever how politics and the media work hand in glove, they’ll be that much more aware of themselves being manipulated.
O/T
Rochester & Strood results link to en.wikipedia.org
Monster Raving Loony Party doing almost as well as the LibDems. If all the Independent candidates were only one candidate they probably would have beaten LD too.
Macart says: 8:30 am
Hopefully now that people have become more aware than ever how politics and the media work hand in glove, they’ll be that much more aware of themselves being manipulated.
You think?
I hope your are right, but many still believe the lies and they are as faithful to those newspapers as they are to SLab.
Up to 3 billion to do up the Palace of Westminster.
But how will they ever repair the crumbling foundations
of democracy in the UK?
Not to mention restoring trust in politicians and business people, when greed and corruption are the norm.
You would have to be dead not to see the imminent and inevitable ruination of GB.
Jackie Baillie really is detestable.
Constantly insulting, constantly confrontational.
They will continue to lose votes, whatever happened to the opposition being willing to cross the divide and seek common ground? Respecting the incumbent government and it’s ministers?
Why should they you may ask? Well, due to the fact that more people voted for them than they did for Labour.
Turned on the radio this morning to hear Baillie insulting the 3 male ministers and saying they had let down Scotland.
Disgraceful stuff.
@McBoxheid
People read their title of choice to confirm their world view, their bias (explains a lot when you think of the Mail’s readership). Those who buy and actually like a given title for whatever reason will see no wrong in them right up until their own personal experience conflicts with what we are being told. Lets face it, it’s happened to most of us and its how many became aware that just because its in black and white, it ain’t necessarily so.
Over two years the numbers in favour of independence went from polling in the low twenties to forty five percent. I’d like to know how much faith in the media there is even now within the percentage who voted no? I’ll bet its not great.
But basically almost half the country is already aware that the media cannot be trusted. They have become overly compromised by both the political and corporate world. What they sell for the most part is vested interest. As time goes on that forty five percent will grow and for the media’s stock with the public, well the only way is down.
John and Macart, it is frustrating indeed to see this crap on a regular basis .
Cochrane and his ” Wee nippy as she is known” pisses me off bigtime. That some flatulent , boozy ignoramus is allowed to print such crap gives me hives.
The fact that he is the ONLY person who dubs Ms Sturgeon with this childish title escapes his notice and his smug ,self congratulatory bilge trundles on.
I hope you are right Macart , and folk really are recognising the shite and discounting it.
I see that UKIP has become target material for most of the MSM south of the border and folk below the line are getting angry with the treatment of Mr Farage and Co.
Ho hum!
Tony Blair honoured with Save The Children’s Global Legacy Award at charity gala attended by Ben Affleck and Lassie
This headline shows without doubt we live in a sick society.
To think this charity deems this creature worthy of an award turns my stomach.
My dear mother donated to save the children for as long as I can remember and I followed suit.
Jim Murphy’s spin doctor in full Blairite mode in The Hootsman
link to archive.today
Noted the comment on Rochester By election.
Surprised no comment on BBC / MSM that Labour vote went down by 12% to 17% in a seat they actually won in 2005 and need to win if they are to form the next UK Government.
Remember vote Labour to get Tory as Labour refused to take part in a majority non Tory alliance after 2010 general election which could have been in power.
This will cheer everyone up for the weekend.
UK debt is 1600 billion pounds and rising.
Interest on the debt is 1000 million pounds a week.
Austerity, with its withering incremental poverty, will be with us for the foreseeable future.
Unless you’re very wealthy that is. In which case you have a life of luxury and plenty to look forward to.
Just ask your MP for details.
Or choose Independence next time.
God, they were a bit more keen when it came to clogging up the steps at the Royal Concert Hall.
Couldn’t wait to get their faces on the telly in support of the union and promise this that and the next thing.
Doesn’t really take long for them to enter back into their “let them eat cake” attitudes eh?
I’d have thought Margaret and Anas would have been there at least, championing all the issues that Kezia was harping on about in the Daily Record, since she’s so concerned about them.
Shame the couldn’t be arsed to act in the best interests of the country they claim to represent and their respective constituents.
What was it again.. Labour 1st, Scottish 2nd.
Nana , I viewed your information about Blair in disbelief.
I will not be donating to Save the Children again , I will donate to Smile Train and Water Aid.
It’s a joke isn’t it , how this evil man has been voted Philanthropist of the year and now this award.
Did those making this ludicrous honour forget the hundred thousand innocents dead in Iraq ?
Save the Childre? Herod did a better job.
Dorothy Devine 8:52 says..
Dorothy I think one of his sayings often leading in his wee gems was “for those of those of us in the cheap seats” – ignoring the fact that these are much more suitable for the larger arse.
I’m astonished. Those awards last night. They include a half-back line of Broon Darling and Matheson. WTF? Have I been on a different planet this past year?
Best Scot at Westminster – how many times was he actually in the building?
@ John King, 7:24am
“short of taking over the Scotsman that is,hmmm
There must be someone out there with a few bob to spare for such a good cause. Maybe we should crowdfund it!!
Talking of the media and their agenda, Kaye with an e is currently hosting the latest BBC softening us up for fracking on Morning Call. Grangemouth could be our boom town (again), it’s all a mile underground, will save manufacturing, only 200 wells per 30 sq miles.
Did any of you folks watch bbcqt last night, some jouno suggested that we could put immigrants on an Island in Scotland.
Its on iplayer at 15:42 in, the wee biddie in the yellow outfit in reply to Ken Clark
@Dorothy Devine
I wish it were a joke, but sadly the ‘joke’ is on us.
I feel truly sick about this and will be popping in to the nearest shop and telling them I will no longer donate.
My dear mum would be horrified at this crass award.
link to rt.com
Oh there’s plenty out there who will eat their shite Dorothy, they’ve been doing it for years and they probably see no need to change the habits of a lifetime now.
Great minds shape events
Average minds discuss events
Small minds read the Telegraph, Mail, Express, Record. 😀
Some more dross…
Scottish Labour hustings: leadership hopefuls make their pitch to Dundee
link to archive.today
In Rochester Labour Shadow Minister posts a photo, Image from Rochester, resigns because of the impression it gives.
Senior Labour Shadow Minister, says ‘we must respect the voters’.
In Scotland, Lamont labels Independence supporters (45% of voters) , viruses, and genetically defective. Darling labels same voters nazis.
Not a response from the Labour Party, not a peep, not an apology. Not a MSM journalist takes up the issue, not a mention from the BBC.
Failure, mediocrity and crass propaganda from Labour and the MSM.
Morning all,
Just heard that John Swinney is Nicola’s new deputy.
@Dorothy Divine says “However , my concern is for Ms Sturgeon and how we protect her from the kind of personal onslaught endured by Mr Salmond.”
@ John king says:7:24 am I’m not sure how we can,
There are several ways you can help. Demonizing Nicola is one of the basic ways the MSM and the Unionists will try and beat us.
I set myself a personal target of writing a letter to the editor AND/or phoning in complaints weekly to papers, BBC etc. Using my dulcet middle class tones in an assertive but respectful way to challenge ‘framing’ by the media, or bias to Labour etc to individual journalists or editors or the BBC.
I know from working in papers years ago that this sort of pressure works best where there is a strong thread of truth and veracity in the complaints being made – which we have by the bucket load
A terrible day for the Monster Raving Loony party – beaten by the libdems.
@ thoughtsofascot . Contact me on Facebook with your email address and I can send you drafts of letters if you would proof them. I have no-one around here with the knowledge to vet them for me
Really pleased about UKIP performance – hopefully will create splits in the Unionist vote in May – First Past the Post working for good guys for a change
Nana,
Reading that link nearly brought ma breakfast back up eeugh Murphy really is a reptile.
loved the bit where he blamed the Yes campaign for his less than enthusiastic welcome on his last visit to Dundee.
Are people that thick that they would fall for that mince?
@ Nana Smith, 8:52am
Tony Blair honoured with Save The Children’s Global Legacy Award at charity gala attended by Ben Affleck and Lassie
Nana, this is a sick joke, isn’t it? Legacy? Wow, bet everyone from Libya to Afghanistan, all points in between, voted for that!
Money, money, money, it’s a rich man’s world! Money certainly talks.
@Kevin Meina 10.53pm.
Scottish people are going to have to wake up and quickly to the dangers of fracking. I attended a meeting in Bishopbriggs Academy on Wednesday night about Ineos’s plan for fracking across central Scotland, extending into Fife in the east, and down the west coast too.
Patrick Harvie was a speaker, also an anti-fracking engineer whose full name I didn’t catch. An Ineos director was there to put the company case. I don’t have the space to give a full account here, but the whole thing was a horror story from beginning to end.
The effects of fracking are terrible and irreversible. I found no comfort in the answers the Ineos director gave to people’s concerns. I got the impression that even he didn’t believe his own case.
The effect on health, the environment, and the landscape, are of course the most important concerns. Gases rising from the fracking and entering our, usually, well insulated houses can’t escape, and linger, causing all sorts of health problems as you can imagine.
Apart from that if fracking takes place in your area then you wont be able to insure your house, as the insurance companys know the damage fracking can do. This means of course that you can’t sell your house, or, if you need money for some purpose borrow against it.
As you say, the spin has already started, with BBC Scotland and STV pushing the case for fracking. Some newspapers are this morning telling us it will be good for the economy as it will be done mostly old mining areas. Bishopbriggs, a mining area?
Here’s a link to a documentary about fracking in the USA. I hope the link works.
link to youtube.com
Bob Mack says:
at 12:03 am
“ …. one of the expressions I have regularly heard from S.N.P. representatives over the past few days ,on about five occasions is that there could be another referendum if the people indicated they wanted it.”
Yes, I keep hearing it. My take is that they have accepted the result of the referendum because as democrats they need to. They are waiting for a clear sign that enough NO voters have changed their minds.
Along with this, the SNP have been pushing the idea that it was The Vow (and other promises etc) which swung it. And, accordingly they will be “holding feet to the fire” to encourage delivery of said promises.
The real test for promise delivery will come after the 2015 election. If the SNP do well then they are in a strong position to make the vow/promises a big media issue.
Logic follows that if WM doesn’t deliver on their winning promises, then that win was achieved by foul means.
The combination of broken promises and therefore a dubious referendum win, and a SNP landslide in 2015 & 2016 … looks like a strong case for IndyRef2. In my mind anyway.
Oh Dear!
The anti-English (white van) message that seems to be all over the MSM this morning could be the final nail in Labour’s coffin. Mocking the “Braveheart” SNP and YES voters is one thing, but the red tories do not want to be pissing off the English, barely six months before the GE.
Oh Dearie, Dearie Me! The red tories have really done it this time.
If ever a picture told a story, this is it. Best of both worlds? No Scotland is currently getting the worst of both worlds: ignored by the blue tories and taken for granted by the red tories.
Slab have the James VI syndrome, bugger off to London at the first opportunity for all the riches on offer and only return north when you absolutely have to. (And only then for as little time as you can get away with).
Can you believe we passed up the opportunity to leave this circus of a political system.
Demonizing Nicola is one of the basic ways the MSM and the Unionists will try and beat us.
Aye, but NS will be a far more difficult target than AS. If they get it wrong (and they will) they will end up appearing in their true form – as despicable bullies.
Sorry Rev. I thought that I had removed the first part of the youtube link. I hope it didn’t mess up your system.
Call K and her usual suspects busy manufrackturing consent this morning.
How come so many accents from outwith Scotland advocating a YES?
According to one caller windfarms “disturb” the water table and pollute reservoirs!
One well spoken sourtherner urgently wants to invest in fracking Scotchland.
Honestly, K addams piled into a young lassie from Portobello worried about the environment telling her the Frack-Off website “puts forward a certain view”.
Unlike K Addams of course, who’s completely impartial on the whole subject of everything.
A sad, sad day for people all over this beautiful country.
Well we warned them about austerity, we warned them about creeping privatisation of the English NHS and we warned them that UKIP would pull England to the right.
They can’t say they weren’t warned.
Luigi
It would be prime irony if ‘champion of the working classes’, Daily Record started trying to demonise working class girl made good, rising to FM, with left leaning social democratic policies.
We expect it from the Telegraph, Scotsman but the other ‘champion’, the Guardian had a go with Steve Bell’s cartoon.
The battle against fracking is shaping up already to be like a re-run of the referendum campaign.With the msm led by the BBC taking the side of the frackers, lying to the people who still believe them.
At what point are our journalists in Scotland going to grow a backbone and refuse to obey orders? For all our sakes, tell the people the truth. After all, you live here too.
‘John H. says:
21 November, 2014 at 10:08 am
@Kevin Meina ‘
I think everyone is aware of the dangers of fracking, it was also one aspect of the indyref that got brought up time and time again.
Guess what though? People that voted No didn’t really care about it, all they heard was that they might be able to make money from it….the fact the value of their house would go down more than what they ‘might’ make did not matter.
But yes your right, it should be pointed out that Scotland lacks the powers to govern on this at every chance.
@Chalks 10.39am
The shocking thing is that I don’t think everyone does realise the dangers of fracking. The type of person who comes here to Wings does of course. I was talking to some relatives last night about it, and their ignorance of the subject worried me.
The Call K show is like an unstoppable fracking operation all on it’s own, it must have done more damage to the Scottish psyche than any other media outlet.
Everything turns to shortbread tins and a loose wummins twee tongue talk that gives me the boak.
Her protege is well trained in the same art of “journalistic” prowess.
I so wish there was a truly Scottish radio programme out there to counter all this tripe.
Just off to throw myself down a sink-hole afore Fred McAr5ew1pe comes spewin out the BBC toilet.
Yeah, you can see the next move from Ineos coming from a mile away. They’ll hold a gun to the head of the central belt’s economy and threaten yet another closure.
All so easily avoided on September 18th.
Our noble PM Cameron the noo quoted in rancid Graun, loads of we and them and us and the Scots
“If Scotland and England were exactly the same size and the same scale, and there was a radically different distribution, I think [arguments against Barnett] would have more power. I would say to English colleagues, who say the Barnett formula is so unfair, and [Scotland gets] so much extra money, if you took all the extra money that Scotland gets from the Barnett formula and distributed it amongst the the 55m people in England, it’s not a pot of gold … We should not kid our constituents that there’s some pot of gold called the Barnett formula which if we only got rid of it, and distributed all the money, we’d have lots more money. It’s not true. Because there are 55m English people and only 6m Scots. So don’t over-estimate the size of this thing. And also recognise that it will shrink in significance as we devolve fiscal power.”
Our Imperial masters know what’s best for us. like the ghastly Graun.
Sill no Severin Carrall, wherefore art thou Seve? Also disappeared probably until next ref, my Slovene girlfriend Aliesbdas from Glasgow uni law dept, raging NO CiF and EU concern freak suddenly disappears straight after our referendum. Slovene’s cant live with, but can watch them at work on Smith Commision, it a very mad UKOK world.
latest from scottish news team
________________________________________
Your weekly newsletter from Scottish News
Good morning from the Scottish News team! It’s a busy day for all of us here as we are in the process of creating the first of many ‘tasters’ we are hoping to put out before our official launch.
The taster is a special news feature of a very important story, and gives us a chance to really dive into news gathering and producing.
We’re really excited to welcome Vonny Moyes into the newsroom. Vonny is an excellent journalist and writer with a wealth of experience and is joining us in our latest taster behind the Scottish Evening News desk.
I won’t give away too much, but do check out our website, twitter and facebook later on this evening to see what we are working on.
In other news, we are now officially a CIC (Community Interest Company), though we still have to go through the process of transferring the business name from the limited company which was originally set up, and getting the SITR set up too. If you want to know more about that you can get in touch with Carolyn, she finds it all very interesting, we doubt many people do.
As always we are incredibly grateful for all your support and we are still getting very positive and encouraging messages every day. Please tell your friends, pass on our website and social media pages, help us spread the word. We’re still trying to raise all the funds needed to launch the daily news broadcast that Scotland deserves!
Yours, the Scottish News Team.
________________________________________
Dorothy Devine says:
21 November, 2014 at 9:04 am
Nana , I viewed your information about Blair in disbelief.
I will not be donating to Save the Children again , I will donate to Smile Train and Water Aid.
It’s a joke isn’t it , how this evil man has been voted Philanthropist of the year and now this award.
Did those making this ludicrous honour forget the hundred thousand innocents dead in Iraq ?
Save the Children? Herod did a better job.
_________________
Perfectly put, Dorothy.
I hope you don’t mind if i make a slight correction.
Try quadrupling that Iraqi civilian war dead figure and
we might just be getting closer to the truth.
link to archive.today
The hands of all Unionists are deeply soaked in blood.
A former Scottish Government cabinet minister has called for a restructuring of Scottish local government and other public bodies in response to plans to devolve significant extra powers to Holyrood.
link to publicfinance.co.uk
FRACKING FRENCH
I read this morning that in France, all fracking is banned.
But two French Companies are investing heavily in fracking in the UK.
Why not, eh? No one shits on their own doorstep, as they say, including in France no doubt.
@Nana Smith:
You did not even mentioned that Obama got the Nobel prize for peace…
@Nana Smith:
You did not even mention that Obama got the Nobel prize for peace…
In Scotland this is a good day to bury bad news. Labour were gubbed in England last night,they will not win the GE. As for the wonders of fraking, Im still waiting for the To Cheap To meter Electricity from the atom. Expert upon expert promised this Where is it and where are they. ?
@AuldA “Obama got the Nobel prize for peace…”
I wanted to forget that particular joke, did not find it at all funny.
Water Aid is a great charity, going for years, and doing something simple with huge benefits.
Save the Children are really being questioned now.
@AuldA think there was controversy at the time Obama was given the prize. Have to say I had high hopes for him, but it all looks horribly wrong now.
Could I ask that anyone looking for a charity to donate to, please consider Children 1st…for Scottish children.
O/T TTIP
Soon-to-be-disgraced MP Michael McCann
‘I am attending the debate today and I will be voting in favour of the bill.
However, please be aware that health is a devolved issue in Scotland and is the responsibility of the Scottish Government. This bill only affects the NHS in England
The full email is probably just a standard response to all who messaged/petitioned
I worry about the SNP’s position on fracking. Worry, because if they don’t get it right, the voters will desert them, and at present they’re our best shot.
If the SG controls planning, why don’t they just make a planning law banning it? They have made, they say, much tougher planning laws, but from what I can see they are a chocolate fireguard.
SEPA will be required to make an environmental assessment first.
Wow, that weak public body is really going to stop fracking companies in their tracks!
And if TTIP goes through – forget it. We’ll never be able to stop US companies.
Grizzle McPuss,
Good call children 1st is the Scottish equivalent of the NSPCC.
they do sterling work alongside the NSPCC in protecting vulnerable children.
@Devorgilla
Doesn’t matter what position they take, energy is a reserved matter. The barriers that can be put in place will only slow down the big companies, it won’t stop them. HMG controlled the licensing and since they handed the damn things out its a dead certainty what they want to happen.
As I said above, all so avoidable.
@Nana Smith:
It was not meant to be funny, not even remotely. My goal was to illustrate that even the most reputable jurys sometimes make mistakes.
new @scotgov cabinet is being announced by NicolaSturgeon at a press conference in Bute House at noon.
@AuldA
I meant I found it to be a joke at the time.
I did not mean I thought you were making a joke. Agree that juries do make mistakes but that Nobel jury were way off the mark.
This is stating the obvious I know, but . . .
I can accept, just, fracking in the desert or in wastelands, like they do in the US in many places.
But to do it in areas of high density populations like Scotland’s central belt?
And to do so in acountry which is famous for it’s beauty and which has such a healthy and indeed vital tourist industry seems like madness.
Then there’s water – some of the purest water anywhere in the world as the Whisky industry and Highland Spring I’m sure will testify. Why go and spoil both the water and the global reputation, not to mention the damage to the image of Scotch Whisky?
We are deep into the law of diminishing returns here. A child could work out that fracking is simply not worth it.
Except that it is – to a few.
It’s worth it to the people who produce the oil and gas because the taxpayer will pay all the other environmental and clean-up costs, not to mention extensive road repairs, thanks to the UK Government and Unionist Councils.
The producers, the money men, who live elsewhere, they make the money, but leave irreparable damage behind them.
Such is the destructive, corrosive power of greed.
This the neo-Liberal world in which greed is king and the common currency is bribery and corruption, and which is championed in the UK by David Cameron and his Government – and the Opposition.
The equation remains the same:
Government and Business greed -versus- the people’s needs.
It’s time to take greed out of the equation.
We need a new kind of politician in a new politics – serving not screwing.
I wonder if any of the 2 million No’s have started to listen yet. Many of them won’t even look at a lifeboat until they are in the water and in danger of drowning; then we’ll hear them cry out ‘save me, save me’, as they see the SS UK sinking.
To the 2 mill., next time, just vote for Independence.
@manandboy 12pm.
“seems like madness”.It is madness. What can we expect when we have allowed ourselves to be ruled by madmen? We had a chance to leave all this behind and we blew it. Maybe when the better off no voters see their house values drop like a stone then they’ll waken up.
Self interest will come first as always. Nicola said we should be nice to no voters and try to win them over, and she’s right. I’m finding it very difficult though, and as things get rapidly worse it’s becoming even harder to forgive and forget.
‘John H. says:
21 November, 2014 at 10:49 am
@Chalks 10.39am
The shocking thing is that I don’t think everyone does realise the dangers of fracking. The type of person who comes here to Wings does of course. I was talking to some relatives last night about it, and their ignorance of the subject worried me.’
Yep, it is alarming.
I saw someone above asking about whether the SG can do something about it, I believe it’s up to the Local Authorities to do something about it, as they have various planning regulations they can use to stop it, which I remember they did, with Fergus Ewing:
link to scotsman.com
Of course, with the Westminster legislation passed, it removed the right to object so it’s much harder to actually oppose these things, bar full-scale town protests
I’m pretty much aghast at it, but then I’ve been aghast since the 19th September. I only wish there was some up here in Aberdeen and in certain peoples big houses.
Sorry, link to article is wrong, I recall there being planning regulations which stopped fracking from happening in scotland, but the westminster legislation kills it
I’ll probably make myself unpopular with moderate Wingers, but I have little sympathy with the NO voters who now fear the impacts of fracking on their lives.
This isn’t about being conciliatory to those that fouled up on the 18th. This is about being honest and upfront, forcing those of the ‘other persuasion’ to face up to their decision making process, and how it was out of step for what is best for Scotland.
The threat of the fracking extraction process was well known, long BEFORE the referendum. I for one was making it as clear as I could to folks.
Many No-buts decided to ignore this message from me and many others, along with the multitude of other highlighted threats to the Scottish nation at large. Let’s not even get into increased austerity packages on their way, NHS privatisation et al.
It falls on my now deaf ears to state “I voted No…but not for fracking”
You cannot pick and choose what you want from the Union as easily as that, not when all the unionist parties blatantly sing off the same corrupt song sheet. Naivety as an excuse goes only so far.
Scotland was offered the opportunity to totally self-govern, to decide along with its own electorate what was best for its own peoples; devoid of ‘foreign’ self-interest influence.
If anything now, I would especially like to hear from the affected No – Better Together groups. I’d like to hear their protests loudly against fracking, and all the other subsequent ills that will befall this nation.
My fear is that the hardworking YES grass root groups are going to be the leaders over this, and all other issues, mainly as a result of their proven track record of being pro-active from being informed (and being interested enough in getting informed in first instance).
No more is it acceptable for the silent & myopic (and I hope temporary) majority to stay quiet. It’s stated that we have become a more politically aware nation; well let’s see & hear that from all colours of the political spectrum.
The one thing that comforts me out of all of this is that next time there is a vote to decide the future of the Scottish nation, WM GE and / or referendum; fracking, new oil field misinformation, MoD spending and all the other raft of perceived threats will be seen by all sides in a completely different light.
The Unionist armoury is thankfully depleting by the day.
@John H
“Scottish people are going to have to wake up and quickly to the dangers of fracking. ”
It is too late. Money has changed hands, palms have been greased, the media monster has been fed.
I tried raising the issue some years ago when it could have been prevented but couldn’t get any real interest.
@Nana Smith:
I deeply apologize for misunderstanding you. We concur, then.
No Grizzle, I think you’ve covered a fair bit there.
Those who voted no on the day do need to be aware that there was always going to be ramifications for their decision. It IS going to be a bitter pill to swallow on many counts and if they are at all honest, those people will hold their hands up and say ‘we got it wrong’.
Here’s to hoping we get a second chance, in the not too distant future, where they can help set the record straight.
@Macart
I, like you, live in hope 🙂
@Chic McGregor:
Well, one positive element might be the opposition this technique is encountering on the mainland, especially, for example, here in France, where it has been banned by law. Scots can always be taught that if some nations forbid fracking, they surely have good reasons to, and what applies there applies here too.
On the other hand, the prohibition on the mainland means that money-thirsty oil companies will consider the UK as their experiment ground. 🙁
@AuldA
No need to apologise, sometimes what is written doesn’t always come across as how we mean it to.
Holyrood has recently amended planning guidance making it easy grounds for any council to refuse planning permission to drill. The purchase of a licence is speculative until they get the local councils permission.
Difficulty is permission is devolved down to council level and many are under Labour control or Lab/Con. The only licence is in Falkirk which was imminent, but the govt. Have called it in, so they are doing what they can, but as mentioned, it’s energy and that is reserved.
Meantime please support your locAl group there are plenty.
What does Gordon Brown MP actually do day to day?
Answer on a postcard to
The Vow
C/o G Brown
Westminster lackey
I agree with Grizzly.
Until the people who voted NO actually suffer personally they won’t change their votes or their minds otherwise.
I heard Robin McAlpine allude to the same principle. People need to feel the pain before they realise it is in their best interests to have an independent Scotland.
What is the official Slab line on fracking? Are they going to go up against us as usual? Or have they got the sense to see how serious this is.
@ James Caithness
Never underestimate the power of TINA. Many who voted no have accepted it. I suspect that no matter how bad things get, no matter how many warnings are shown to be true, those people will never admit we could have made different decisions. They think there are laws of economics which are like the law of gravity: they do not believe that these are all political choices at base
No need for experiment for CSG production, fracked or not, plenty of field data already from Oz.
GGE footprint is several times that which would be the case if the coal were simply burned.
The methane can be burned more efficiently from fracking if it were used for energy production but direct escape leakages of methane and escapes from extracted water born methane more than make up the difference.
It has been calculated that a 1% escape would double the GGE effect compared to just burning the coal. Estimates of real fields in Australia are that in practice the amount of methane escape is 4-8%
Also, new tests of methane using more accurate simulation (aerosol method) of true atmospheric conditions suggest that the GGE effect of methane is probably more than 100 times greater than that for an equivalent amount of CO2, rather than the 30 or so figure used for previous estimates.
That is before we even get on to effects on the aquifer, subsidence and the potential pollution of human water supplies, farmland produce and even the air people breath in their homes by toxic and carcinogenic chemicals.
The economic knock on effects are huge on property prices, saleability and even insureability and negative effects on potential start up decisions as well as, of course, on tourism earnings.
Anyone interested in hearing Call K on the Radio Scotland, well, you can’t.
Message reads content not available. No wonder, it was shameful.
‘Macart says:
21 November, 2014 at 1:16 pm
No Grizzle, I think you’ve covered a fair bit there.
Those who voted no on the day do need to be aware that there was always going to be ramifications for their decision. It IS going to be a bitter pill to swallow on many counts and if they are at all honest, those people will hold their hands up and say ‘we got it wrong’.
Here’s to hoping we get a second chance, in the not too distant future, where they can help set the record straight.’
Indeed, and next time I’d like to see us point out every single decision and Westminsters plans for the future.
We all know they will be negative.
@Chalks
Well chalks we’ve been given a couple of good methods for delivery. News Scotland and hopefully this new title ‘The National’. We get behind them and if they’re worth it, we promote the bejayzuz out of them. We make sure that every hoose in Scotland is aware of their existence.
We pretty much own the net and social meeja, lets expand a bit. We’ve got enough disposable to buy a daily paper with 1.6mn bods. The best the Record and Sun can come up with for readership is 200-300+k each. I’d say there’s better than just a little market wiggle room there. 🙂
On the personal front we just keep doing what we have been doing. The same recipe that took us from low twenties to forty five percent in twenty four months.
Its all doable, definitely all doable. 🙂
Fiona says:
21 November, 2014 at 3:00 pm
@ James Caithness
Never underestimate the power of TINA. Many who voted no have accepted it. I suspect that no matter how bad things get, no matter how many warnings are shown to be true, those people will never admit we could have made different decisions. They think there are laws of economics which are like the law of gravity: they do not believe that these are all political choices at base
==================================
Fiona I agree with you. I hear people saying they know ”NO” voters who wish they hadn’t voted no. Personally I have yet to meet one myself.
Fiona what does TINA stand for?
Squarehaggis – why was the programme shameful?
TINA – There Is No Alternative.
Maggie Thatcher’s battle-cry.
@Stoker,
See previous post at;
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Can’t remember exactly what was said but some of the callers sounded distinctly familiar, vitriolic Better Thegether types methinks, back to skim the spoils of victory.
Job only half done..
Shame it’s not available on catch up, a real eyeopener.