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Wings Over Scotland


A close shave

Posted on February 16, 2017 by

There’s a nice piece in today’s Scottish Sun about one of the findings of our newest Panelbase poll, on who was Scotland’s all-time best First Minister.

mountnicmore

We thought you’d want a more detailed look at the data behind it.

The final result was a little closer than many might have expected, with SNP voters having to decide between Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond.

bestfm1

Unsurprisingly, Yes voters were overwhelmingly likely to pick one of the two SNP leaders, with 77% plumping for either the current FM or her predecessor compared to just 23% of No voters.

(As ever in these polls, putting the words “Regardless of your personal political views” in the question was a complete waste of time.)

Slightly more interestingly, 53% of Remain voters also picked Sturgeon or Salmond – more than twice as many as went for Donald Dewar, and 21 points ahead of all the Labour FMs combined – while only 38% of Leave voters backed the SNP pair despite every other party in Scotland also supporting Remain.

Tory voters revealed a previously-unknown love for Donald Dewar, with a thumping 50% of them voting the Labour leader as their favourite FM – remarkably, a higher percentage than the 47% Nicola Sturgeon got from SNP voters.

Even Labour voters didn’t like Dewar as much as the Tories did – they trailed behind both Tories and the Lib Dems in support for the first ever Holyrood chief, with just 40% backing him compared to Tory voters’ 50% and Lib Dems’ 49%.

And it wasn’t that they’d split their votes much – among Labour voters, Alex Salmond (9%) was a more popular choice than Jack McConnell (8%), with poor Henry McLeish only picking up 3% from his own party faithful. 30% of Labour voters backed the two SNP leaders overall, with Nicola Sturgeon getting almost twice as much backing from Labour supporters (21%) as McConnell and McLeish put together.

(15% of SNP voters returned the favour by picking Donald Dewar.)

The most interesting stat, though, was that if just two more Labour voters had picked Dewar instead of Nicola Sturgeon or Alex Salmond, the Unionist solidarity from Tories and Lib Dems would have seen him pip her to the title by 302 votes to 301.

We can’t help wondering if Kezia Dugdale pressed the wrong button again.

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  1. 16 02 17 11:36

    A close shave - Talking Drum

  2. 16 02 17 11:57

    A close shave | speymouth

69 to “A close shave”

  1. David Smith says:

    Amazing popularity for a man who colluded in the theft of several thousand square miles of Scotland seas…

  2. gordoz says:

    Shouldn’t the tank commander be in there since she’s being touted as next FM surely she’d be far ahead of any of these contenders; based on talent n skill & the public vote and
    No more Scotland stance.

    Pppfffff! ?

  3. RogueCoder says:

    Quite telling that the Tories would rather vote for a Labour leader than an obviously strong SNP leader. That’s how involved they are in the constitutional question. They really do hate us that much.

  4. Proud Cybernat says:

    LOW POINT: “Having to admit Scotland’s schools are only as good as Vietnam’s”?

    Aye well – you know whose PFI door to lay that one at, don’t ya SUN. Effing Scottish Labour’s McConnell and Broon.

  5. gordoz says:

    Who was the Dewar guy ? Thought he wuz a Tory anyway ?
    Heard he was sombodies faither ?

  6. Clootie says:

    I don’t recall that low point “…Admits Scottish schools only as good as Veitnam”
    The Sun using political license?

  7. Fred says:

    It’ll always be Ruth-less though!

  8. Bob MACK says:

    Rev, your articles over the past few days have given me much food for thought, and made me look in depth at what could be happening in Scotland just now in a political sense. Given the vicious attitude of the Tories and in spite of it, it seems that Scotland still prefers ties with the Union.

    This can only be down to one factor that over ides any other. I believe that factor to be” culture”.

    Culture is the collective ideas philosophies and values accrued over a lifetime of an individual or Society. As well as being very difficult to change for individuals ,It is their yardstick for measuring their own worth. The independence debate challenges the beliefs of our current Society and they do not like it

    From the cradle to the grave we are programmed to believe in certain values. When I joined the Scouts I swore an oath to country and Queen. I was taught “British history rather than Scottish. I can honestly say that only since devolution have I had the opportunity to see how Scotland could manage on its own, and the potential within our people. Prior to this I accepted that we had representatives at Westminster for whom we voted as our main voice in the democracy of the UK.

    I think that we are challenging people the wrong way. We are entrenching them in the safety blanket of the Union. Something many have believed in all their lives, and for whom there is invested a lifetime of belief.

    The poll information you have given tells me one thing though. People are moving from established values to new values. It is inconceivable that just 50 years ago Scotland would have voted over 40% for Independence. It is also inconceivable that the SNP would have over 50 representatives sitting in Westminster, elected by the Scottish people.

    Clearly people now trust the SNP to govern well. That is major progress. They are testing the waters if you like prior to committing full belief.

    Perhaps we need to be more inclusive in our approach to those still testing the waters. Outright hostility will bring us nothing but outright hostility returned.
    Persuasion ,facts and truth must be our weapons of choice.

    If anyone ever tells you that independence has been rejected they may well be right, but only for now. The numbers have been and will, continue to grow.

    Sorry for the long post.

  9. galamcennalath says:

    Brings back memories.

    We take the micky out of Kezia for her lack of political acumen. But when you think back to Mcleish and McConnell, jeezo, empty shirts or wot?

    What exactly did those guys achieve for Scotland? Just place holders for Westminster rule by proxy.

    I can’t honestly remember, but no doubt the media reported their ‘glowing achievements’, and all was well in this Union.

    Donald Dewer, the Unionist’s darling, it seems. Labour voters have a higher opinion of Nicola, than SNP voters have of Donald Dewer.

    Alec and Nicola are in a whole different league.

  10. Proud Cybernat says:

    Promises, promises…

    http://imgur.com/a/4XpYZ

  11. David Mccann says:

    Wise words Bob Mack.
    Our raison d’être should always be to change people’s minds, not slag them off for holding beliefs, which although not ours, are nevertheless perfectly valid as far as they are concerned

  12. galamcennalath says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    “Vow 2” … at least that would be honesty! 🙂

  13. galamcennalath says:

    Wait a minute!

    Of the five faces carved in stone the middle one looks like Enoch Powell to me!

  14. Ken500 says:

    Westminster illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Scotland could have had £Billions spent within the economy. A fairer, more equal prosperous society.

    Now Brexit. The next Westminster disaster. Increased debt.

    The terraces are empty. The authorities let paedophiles run the Clubs. Most of the Clubs are in massive debt. Subsidised with £Billions of public money.

  15. Robert Graham says:

    Proud Cybemat – that must be the clearest hard hitting image i have seen short and to the point and every word true

  16. manandboy says:

    More sterling work from Stu.

    With a poll rating of only 3% and having been party to the theft of 6000 square miles of Scotland’s territorial waters, as well as some dodgy expenses, why do media outlets, like The National, use someone as discredited as Henry McLeish as a voice for Scotland?
    I can only imagine that being a Labour former First Minister is more important to that section of the electorate which ‘can be fooled all the time’, than being a completely untrustworthy individual who has done serious harm to Scotland.

    Henry McLeish – a reminder that having neither talent nor allegiance to Scotland, will hinder progress to the top in Labour’s Scottish branch office.

    Ps. A question not asked was ‘who is the worst Labour Leader Scotland has had’. Even Henry McLeish can’t beat Kezia Dugdale for that title. IMO, of course.

  17. Phil Robertson says:

    Before they asked this question it would have be informative if they had asked the sample to name all the Scottish First Members.

  18. Capella says:

    Not wishing to cast aspersions on the good people of Vietnam – but does anyone know what the status of their education system is?

    Perhaps Scottish education, after 300 years of the Union is similar to a country which we comprehensively bombed back into the stone age and poisoned with chemical defoliants not 50 years ago.

    If so, the Vietnamese have made a remarkable recovery. And the sooner we get out of this brain addling Union the better.

  19. Phil Robertson says:

    In above make “Members”, “Ministers”.

  20. Arbroath1320 says:

    Erm … not sure if you have seen this yet Stu. 😉

    It appears that one of our beloved Rev’s old “sparring” partners has taken to reading Wings or at the very least the opinion polls conducted on behalf of Wings.

    http://archive.is/dOY1x

  21. Nana says:

    @Capella

    An article from 2015/ Vietnam’s ‘stunning’ rise in school standards

    Vietnam’s performance in the last international Pisa tests was a stunning achievement.
    http://archive.is/FvRZb

  22. Flower of Scotland says:

    Bob MACK@10.51

    I agree with you but I also think that if the Scottish TV companies gave the Yes side as much TV time as the NO side then we would have Independence.

    They do give us airtime but it’s all Scotland is a region and SNP are bad news. If they gave us as much coverage as Trump news we would be marching in the streets in hundreds of thousands when the people really know the truth.

    Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t get very nice coverage, there,s always a wee sneer in there from the media. Good that some folk see it for what it is.

    However no chance from the Beeb and even less chance these days from STV whose anti Scottish Independence or anti Scottish anything stance is quite outrageous. I don’t watch either of them much but when I do I can feel my blood pressure shoot up!

  23. Bob MACK says:

    @Phil Robertson,

    Shouldn’t be hard. There have only been five full time and one acting (2) Jim wallace

  24. Ken500 says:

    Vietnam 94Million (pop) Young population.

    234 Universities – 50% of pop graduates. Part private education. (50%?)

    Scotland 5million (pop)

    15 Universities 55% of pop graduates. (+ colleges and apprenticeships)

    Pop rata Scotland 15 Universities Vietnam 12 Universities.

    Scotland has a better education system.

  25. Bob MACK says:

    @Flower of Scotland,

    I agree, but yet here we are today with 56 MP’S, the largest party in Holyrood, and over a million Scots voting for Independence in spite of everything thrown at the movement. The message must be getting through somehow.

    It is changing and we must help that change to move forward.

    Had you said this just 50, even twenty years ago you would have been locked up for your own safety.

  26. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil Robertson says: 16 February, 2017 at 11:31 am:

    “Before they asked this question it would have be informative if they had asked the sample to name all the Scottish First Members.”,

    Whatever use would that serve?

    If any particular FM has done nothing to be remembered for by the responder to the question. Why would they rank them anywhere but last?

  27. Ken500 says:

    Asian education systems higher achievements are often based on pupils studying from 7 am until 12pm mightnight. Getting 6 hours sleep. 6/7 days a week. Child cruelty and abuse. Pupils commit suicide because of the pressure and stress. This would not be supported by main carers or authorities in Western countries, which still achieve higher University levels. Many Asian authorities are changing to less competitive stressful systems. South Korea etc.

  28. orri says:

    Congratulations are in order to Vietnam in achieving 12 place in a ranking that puts them above not only all of the UK but the USA and most of Europe. Castigating Scotland for not doing as well is kind of ridiculous. It betrays a prejudicial mindset in that mentioning it is intended to play on others assumptions about Vietnam, or any other country for that matter.

  29. Swami Backverandah says:

    Bill Leckie in Scottish Sun article.

    “That’s why we’ve forever punched above our weight in the number of writers and inventors and scientists we produce.

    But imagine if someone had told Rabbie Burns his early poems were mince and he’d chucked it. Imagine if James Watt hadn’t got it right first time with his steam engine and decided not to bother. Imagine if the legend of Robert The Bruce had gone: “If at first you don’t succeed, go for a pint and a cry.”

    “And it’s why, more than any other reason, close on half the electorate has a yearning to find out what life would be like as a stand-alone nation after 300 years under another’s yolk.”

    Eggsactly!

  30. Flower of Scotland says:

    Great one Proud Cybernat!

    Have shared on Twitter and Facebook.

  31. Ken500 says:

    37% of 15 years olds in Vietnam are not in School?

    Not comparing like with like?

  32. Ken500 says:

    Taking 37% of 15 year old out of the statistics (1/3) 50% of the population go to University = 35%?

  33. Vestas says:

    The figures for Dewar are easily explained – he’s dead and all the others are alive.

    People don’t like speaking ill of the dead and tend to remember mainly/only the good parts – even Thatcher got a bump in popularity (in Scotland) when she died!

  34. Jimbo says:

    I’m surprised at the popularity of Dewar – The man who probably knew the value of Scottish oil but was happy to liken an independent Scotland to Bangladesh. Not to mention conspiring with Blair to rob Scotland of six thousand square miles of Scottish waters and the oil fields therein.

  35. Robert Peffers says:

    Let’s face it, Wingers, if you knock doors and get the unasked for answer to almost any given question of, “Ah hate yon Alicsamin”, or the more recent Nicola Sturgeon variant, and the occupant cannot then give a sane reason for such blind hatred, we have to take any response to the survey question on FMs popularity with a rather large bucket of salt.

    It seems to me that there are some unionist voters who do not have the slightest idea of what they are actually voting for.

    These strange people trot out a succession of soundbites like a broken vinyl record yet have no answers as to what they mean if the questioner attempts to engage in reasoned debate.

    They are rather like wee budgies that repeat a sound they have heard but have no idea of what the sound means.

    My mate’s wife had just such a wee budgie. It was fond of saying, “Who’s a pretty boy then”.

    I didn’t have the heart to tell the lady her wee pet was a female.

  36. harry mcaye says:

    That first comment BTL on The Scotsman is a belter. We love you too!

  37. Betty Boop says:

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry about Donald Dewar’s rankings.

    I would laugh at him being more popular with Tories than Labour, but, then I remember just how much more wedded he was to Westminster rule than making the Scottish Parliament functional for the benefit of Scottish constituents. A dyed in the wool unionist as we have come to know them.

    I would dearly love to have that statue in Buchanan Street replaced.

  38. Ian McCUBBIN says:

    Cannot see why so many liked Donald Dewar maybe because he is now historical. Hid behind few powers and rhetoric of labor party, while Blair asset strip Scottish oil fields

  39. Surely the theft of Scottish seas is illegal can this not be challenged in the e.u. Courts ? I mean what other country in the world would put up with this to me it is as illegal as the Israeli settlements in Palestine hypocrisy not Democrisey

  40. Ken500 says:

    Scotland can’t spend 20% of taxes raised £10Billion+ (£54Billion) on education etc. It has to pay on average £4Billion loan repayments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. £1Billion on quint Trident and redundant weaponry. Minimum pricing would save £1Billion. £3Billion lost on tax evasion? £4Billion lost on Oil revenues? £13Billion which could be saved or better spent growing the economy and creating jobs. Raising more revenues.

  41. galamcennalath says:

    On the 17th June 1999 Donald Dewar provisionally estimated the costs of the parliament building at £109. The final figure was £414m.

    Then there is McConnell’s PFI fiasco which will still be getting paid when most of us are deid.

    From the Daily Record of 2nd March 2016 …. “ David Climbie, Transport Scotland project director for the Queensferry Crossing, told MSP’s the overall cost of the new crossing will be between £1.32bn and £1.35bn against a 2009 estimated cost of £2.34bn

  42. Malcolm says:

    I hope Henry McLeish is about to do his greatest ever service for his country. I am sure he will break for YES at Indy 2. Hopefully he will bring a few soft NOs with him.

    That will leave only one past FM in the NO camp. And I never got the feeling that McConnell’s heart was fully in the Westminster rule camp.

    And who knows what Donald Dewar would have thought, had he lived.

  43. galamcennalath says:

    OT Brexit reality …

    Microsoft hikes prices by up to 15% after Brexit vote

    http://archive.is/STwLL

    A looming Brexit bombshell is about to make many people VERY angry

    http://archive.is/wdV7L

    UK must not be better off outside EU, warns French senate report

    http://archive.is/OG7fT

    Brexit: UK could be ‘more vulnerable to terrorist attacks’

    http://archive.is/zlckj

  44. Fergus Green says:

    http://imgur.com/a/4XpYZ

    Brilliant link from Proud Cybernat.

    Would make a good flyer.

    Share it far and wide.

  45. Clapper57 says:

    O/T

    Got council election bumf through letterbox yesterday from John McLellan Scottish Conservative for Craigentinny & Duddingston ( he is a former editor of Edinburgh Evening News & The Scotsman. He worked as Ruthie’s Director of Communications and is now Professor of journalism at Stirling university.He is also a columnist at The Herald )

    Inside his election bumf was the following :

    Oppose IndeyRef2 Now ( This was header and was how IndyRef was spelt i.e. IndeyRef ! )

    “ Public opposition to a second independence Referendum in the wake of Brexit continues to grow. First Minister Nicola Sturgeon might still find it hard to accept Scotland decisively rejected independence, but having voted 55:45 to remain part of the United Kingdom in 2014, a Herald poll only a few weeks ago put support for separation down to 40 percent.

    The poll showed that only 34% supported another independence referendum in 2017, compared to 55% against, so perhaps it’s not surprising the First minister quickly ruled out something so obviously unpopular, but only for this year.Then a Sunday Times poll put support for a second Independence Referendum before the UK leaves the EU at only 27%.

    PM Theresa May has produced a pragmatic and practical approach to the realities of the vote to leave the EU, and a sensible platform from which to launch what we will need to be tough negotiations. She has also spelt out he will continue to listen to the SG.

    Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson was spot on when she said the PM “will prioritise the protection of our own union of nations, respecting the vote that we took in Scotland to remain part of the UK.Nicola Sturgeon should now rule a second referendum out and instead work to get the best deal out of Brexit for all of us across UK”.

    But the FM still insists a second referendum is now “all but inevitable”, so the danger of another vote and all the uncertainty it will bring is real and so too is the need to oppose it.

    As a life-long Nationalist is is unrealistic to expect Ms Sturgeon to change her views and no-one should doubt her determination to drag Scotland out of the UK despite the fact the UK single market is worth over four times more to Scotland than the EU ”.

    McLellan then goes on to ask you to sign “Say No to second referendum” not just fot this year but for this generation, like Ms Sturgeon promised.He then gives the Scottish Conservatives No2IndyRef petition website address ( with IndyRef spelt correctly lol )

    Well Mr McLellan I ask why so much in your election bumf about opposing Indy2 and why not concentrate on the ‘day job’ you are trying to get i.e. Local Councillor for an area within Edinburgh…..Edinburgh by the by was a pro Remain city in EU vote and I am sure not happy Tories trying to ‘drag’ Scotland out of EU.

    I am sure the above will be same bumf other areas get from other candidates in the Scottish Conservative and Brexit party.

    Cannae wait till he comes to my door !

  46. I see the American state of New Jersey has adopted the Finnish idea of Baby Boxes/maternity kit to help cut down infant mortality and educate new mothers on infant safety,

    nyti.ms/2l4ABrF

    when Nicola introduced such an obviously good thing she was attacked and ridiculed by Red/Blue Torys and their batshit media chums,

    you would think the health of tiny weans would be one thing that would unite all citizens of Scotland.

  47. galamcennalath says:

    Malcolm says:

    I hope Henry McLeish is about to do his greatest ever service for his country. I am sure he will break for YES at Indy 2.

    Yes, it will be his greatest deed, if he does. I reckon he will and he won’t be the only Unionist politician, past and present, when it comes to a very stark choice.

  48. yesindyref2 says:

    From the Scottish Sun: “The poll, commissioned for pro-indy website Wings Over Scotland

    Another good credit – hello and welcome, all new readers of Wings!

  49. sorry, try this link to New Jersey Baby Boxes,

    https://tinyurl.com/zqao3eo

  50. galamcennalath says:

    Clapper57 says:

    Oppose IndeyRef2 Now

    We had a similar one recently

    If the Tories want to widen the May election into issues beyond local council stuff, then it is no bad thing

    By May Article 50 will have been triggered for a couple of months and the Brexit shite will be onto the fan. Add to this their behaviour towards Scotland in WM.

    Yes, bring it on. Make the May elections about ‘the big picture’!

  51. Macart says:

    @Yesindyref 2

    New readers?

    Awwww hell! I’ll have to put ma guid teeth in and button up ma shirt.

  52. yesindyref2 says:

    Sun article is quite funny, this is a good comment about Sturgeon though: “KEY STRENGTH: Appealing to the supporters of rival parties.”. An important one for Indy Ref 2.

  53. Dr Jim says:

    Donald Dewar wasn’t even the best at being Donald Dewar
    and I knew one of them and did not care for him or the other one
    It all depended on which way they were facing

  54. liz says:

    Re Donald Dewar- this is the mythical past that previous Labour supporters cling to.

    They seem to remember a golden age of Labour with DD and John Smith.

    It’s fair enough that a lot have moved on from that attitude and I suppose you can’t blame folk who supported and voted for Labour in the past to hope that there was a time when they were on the side of the working class.

    I have never trusted Lab as I always looked around me at Glasgow in the 60’s and thought, what the hell are these people doing for us?

    My SLAB supporting friend of that time and I used to argue about the merits of DD
    He was MP for Garscadden at the time, which was one of the poorest areas in Glasgow.

  55. The petition against a second independence referendum formed part of the Tories campaign in the Leven by election
    last year.

    So don’t be surprised that the Tories will use this a large part of their local Government campaign.

    As for Tories supporting Labour, again that doesn’t come as any surprise, while Labour in Scotland conned the people for decades into believing it was anti- Tory party, it worked hand in glove with the Tories at Westminster,
    the Maastricht treaty being one example

  56. James Barr Gardner says:

    Dewar amassed a personal fortune, his largest investment in his portfolio of almost 50 companies was with the Royal Bank of Scotland, with 21,964 shares worth more than £284,000. Other shareholdings included a £70,927 stake in Unilever, a £37,496 stake in Marks & Spencers and £5,346 in Railtrack. It is thought that the total could near £3 million when pension and life insurance policies are realised.

    In today’s money £4.7 million, no surprise there as he was a bliarite, bought with english gold ?

    So much for a prominent labour leader opposing tories privatizing Utilities, after it goes through he buys shares in them, what a hypocrite!

    If everybody had know about his stash, the McCrone Report, the stolen seas, I don’t think he would even have scored as high as Joke McConnell.

  57. stupidactingsmart says:

    As much as this is welcome positive publicity, I strongly feel the Sun should be ignored. I was disappointed when I saw Nicola Sturgeon posing happily with said rag before the last set of elections. There’s a reason no one in Liverpool buys the Sun, and that reason is reason enough that no one anywhere should buy it. But even if not for Hillsborough, it has had so many nasty, sneery, made-up and disgusting stories that morally, it should be denied any sort of platform, in my humble opinion.

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    My wife who likes Sturgeon and thinks she’s very strong and able would have put Salmond first because she likes him, and Dewar and Sturgeon joint 2nd because neither deserves to be third. She’s YES and votes SNP but isn’t really political. She is Irish from Independent Ireland of course, and definitely not British!

    If I forgot I support Indy, I might have put Dewar first because he started our Parliament off in a very dignified fashion, as did Steele as PO. That gave it a healthy start.

    With Indy of course it’s a straight choice, and a difficult one. Without Salmond it’s unlikely Indy would have got as far as it has, mainstream in Scottish politics.

  59. heedtracker says:

    Captain James Tiberius Murphy. We watched him in Nairn, Vote NO campaigning, late summer 2014, Nairn High Street, roaring his Naw Thanks head off at the odd passersby. Then he was ecstatically mobbed by loads of frightfully posh lanky men in tweed and tan corduroys, like Elvis. And Jim’s whole show was right along from the house that the ‘Butcher’ Cumberland, billeted himself before Culloden. Creepy as fcuk.

  60. yesindyref2 says:

    @stupidactingsmart
    There’s a lot of people think like that, about just about all of the media. Well, it was all bar one anti-Indy in Indy Ref 1. Basically because it thought NO would win, and backed the winning side.

    Indy Ref 2 is very different, most people now think Scotland will go Indy in time, just a question of when. And the result of Indy Ref 2 is very open, to say the least.

    It means the MSM that have sales in Scotland will at worst back it both ways, that’s a help to us, and for me, I’ll give it all the support I can to help it take a middle path – or a pro-indy one. The MSM is not important, who cares, but Indy is.

  61. Juteman says:

    Older folk are more likely to vote No.
    Older folk know who Dewar was.
    Younger folk are more likely to vote Yes.
    Younger folk are ‘Donald who?’

  62. Iain More says:

    Donald who? This is a piss take right? Aye okay I forgot it is the cretins who probably take their news gloop from the Disreporting Scotland Show that opted for him.

    As for the Sun it wont stop them running rabid anti SNP SG editorials in the run up to the Cooncils Elections I bet.

  63. yesindyref2 says:

    @Clapper57
    So John McLellan lies about that Panelbase poll in his election leaflet. The answer, and to discredit the Tories for the liars they are is to hit it head-on.

    ————————
    The Conservatives are saying: “a Sunday Times poll put support for a second Independence Referendum before the UK leaves the EU at only 27%.”

    But from the actual Sunday Times poll results, in response to the question about “When do you think another Scottish independence referendum should be held?” the responses were:

    In the next year or two, while the UK is negotiating to leave the EU – 27%

    About two years from now, when the UK has finished negotiating to leave the EU – 23%

    There should not be another Scottish independence referendum in the next few years – 51%”

    So that makes it support for a second independence referendum before the UK leaves the EU at 50%, not the 27% the Conservatives are misrepresenting. Who do YOU trust to tell the truth?
    ————————-

  64. yesindyref2 says:

    Doesn’t come out well with italics, and a bit better worderd.

    ————————
    The Scottish Conservatives are saying: “a Sunday Times poll put support for a second Independence Referendum before the UK leaves the EU at only 27%.”

    But from the actual Sunday Times poll results, source Panelbase.com – the actual polling company – in response to their question to 1020 Adults in Scotland: “When do you think another Scottish independence referendum should be held?” the responses were:

    “In the next year or two, while the UK is negotiating to leave the EU – 27%

    About two years from now, when the UK has finished negotiating to leave the EU – 23%

    There should not be another Scottish independence referendum in the next few years – 51%”

    So support for a second independence referendum before the UK leaves the EU is actually 50%, not the 27% the Conservatives are claiming. Would you trust a Conservative politician to tell the truth?
    ————————-

  65. Clapper57 says:

    Davd coburn tweeted the following about Labour’s Stoke candidate:

    “Labour candidate engulfed in sexism row after foul-mouthed rant”

    Hypocrisy to highlight this considering he is still employing ‘play Misty for me’ who one could say was also a ‘foul mouthed’ ‘panter’ as opposed to ‘ranter’ ( sure he was panting in calls he made to poor innocent women he targeted) und he is DEFINITELY ‘engulfed’ in a ‘sexism row’, is our Mr Misty T, though some may say more like ENGULFED in a ‘sex pest row’.

    21st Century and UKIP ( Useless Kunts with a ‘K’ Idiots Party) are actually being supported by real life human beings….

    ALIENS NOW IS THE TIME TO INVADE EARTH ( Well some of it…read on) no matter what solar system/planet you come from ……if you need more proof Aliens then I give you……Trump…..oh and Nuttall is leader of UKIP…Earth awaits…

    ps. Aliens start with UK ( English region only…. UKIP, right wing Tory supporters/MP’s NOT decent English…may be hard but hey you are Aliens you’ll find a way…sure it will be obvious who supports who) and then USA ( Trump supporters both voters and his administration)…..

    pps Aliens as further confirmation Brexit was real and some (English mostly) still think good idea….I rest my case….ppps Scotland welcomes Aliens…not for invasion just as friends….pppps ET’s mother came from Scotland und Scotland did NOT vote for Brexit and we have NO Scottish UKIP MSP’s or MP’s ..Coburn sneaked in as MEP through back door…his arse is on borrowed time though….I doubly rest my case.

    ppppps….If you could also stop the world so that I can get off…literally get off….not get off with an Alien….just get off as I feel more like an Alien now as opposed to a human being….anyway you can deal with other countries later though we, the Scots, have names and we can discuss that when you get here….clue ….extreme right wing ( no does not denote a bird appendage)…

    You see WOS peeps I am losing the plot but allow me this fantasy cause I think, at this moment in time, I must be a feckin Alien cause don’t recognise current traits in some Human beings at the moment…..either that or THEY are the Aliens !….oops sorry potential invading Aliens just a little joke…..I hope.

  66. yesindyref2 says:

    Take me to your leader! No, not her, please don’t let it be her.

  67. yesindyref2 says:

    Oops, I meant May or Babe Ruth (wrong thread).

  68. Clapper57 says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    16 February, 2017 at 4:38 pm

    “Take me to your leader “!

    Hey yesindyref2, If Aliens met David Coburn they would ask “Take me to your Larder”….then they would add….”you f*t….. Useless Kunt Idiot Person” which is singular for UKIP peep…..plural is still Useless Kunts Idiots Party.

  69. MorvenM says:

    David Smith says:
    16 February, 2017 at 10:12 am
    Amazing popularity for a man who colluded in the theft of several thousand square miles of Scotland seas…

    Sadly, I don’t think many voters in Scotland are aware of Dewar’s collusion or the McCrone Report for that matter.



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