The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

You’ve Got Males

Posted on October 22, 2020 by

On Sunday we told you about Mridul Wadhwa, a man who deceived his way into a job at a rape crisis centre and now wants to be an SNP MSP, in a seat where the party supposedly has an all-woman shortlist. The story was picked up today by the Times.

But Wadhwa isn’t the only man trying to muscle in on a woman-only shortlist.

The extremist transactivist “Out For Indy” group yesterday highlighted the candidacy of Sarah Fanet in Argyll and Bute, a constituency already plagued by the abominable horror of Rhiannon Spear trying to get selected.

(We’re still trying to work out why a privileged white cisgender straight person standing against a transwoman seemingly isn’t “transphobic”, since everything else is.)

Argyll and Bute (like Stirling, the seat Wadhwa is trying for) is also supposed to be an all-women shortlist, but Fanet too is a man, and lived as one until 2016.

These are two very different cases. Fanet has undergone sex reassignment surgery and hasn’t obtained access to vulnerable rape victims by deception. But all-women shortlists are meant to be for people who have the issues and life experiences of being women, and women aren’t simply men with their penises chopped off. They deal with things no man ever has to, no matter how much men delude themselves otherwise.

Wings doesn’t even agree with all-women shortlists. In a democracy where women are the majority and have the vote, there’s no justification for arbitrarily excluding half of the population from seeking election. Women are perfectly capable of joining political parties and standing as, or voting for, female candidates fair and square, just like men are. You don’t fix perceived discrimination by imposing actual discrimination against tens of thousands of people.

(There are around 25,000 adult men in the constituency, who have effectively been banished from democracy, like women who can play in golf clubs as resented guests but can never be members themselves. But if Fanet gets the nomination, women will have been excluded too. Everyone’s a loser.)

But cases like this serve to highlight the ridiculous, deranged position the current SNP has somehow managed to paint itself into. The voters of Argyll and Bute have, of their own free and democratic will, chosen male MSPs at every election since the Scottish Parliament was created, but now the only way a pro-independence male can have any hope of representing it is to put a dress on and have his genitalia surgically removed.

The party’s current stance combines sexual discrimination with the denial of scientific reality, like some sort of ridiculous black-mirror image of the way that Screaming Lord Sutch used to cavort around London with naked models in the service of the Monster Raving Loony Party, singing gleefully about Jack The Ripper.

The only difference is that the MRLP didn’t try to pretend they were sane, and nobody ever put them into power. Because not even Screaming Lord Sutch was so screaming mad that he thought men could turn into women.

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 22 10 20 12:56

      You’ve Got Males | speymouth

    401 to “You’ve Got Males”

    1. Morgatron says:

      Sarah Fanet , (is that surname French or just a spelling mistake?) just sums it up perfectly about not serving the people and pushing their own agenda. I don’t give a flying fuck about what they want, I want independance , an income and a roof over my head.
      Anyway Stu, I thought it was an article about Sparks.

    2. Garavelli Princip says:

      How did my party get captured by these weirdos? Where is independence in all of this?

    3. Sharny Dubs says:

      The SNP have morphed into something I cannot recognise.

      I will not, or cannot have anything to do with them.

      Please, please, please someone give me something I can vote for.

      WM win this one game set and match.

    4. Big Jock says:

      Why is a minority group , and I mean minority having such influence.

      They represent about 0.5% of the population , but seem to account for 20% of the SNP representatives.

      It’s a pity Scotland can’t exert such power with 10% of the UK population. The SNP are not representing the majority of the people who vote for them.

      This is a dangerous road.

    5. Livionian says:

      We shouldn’t be afraid to call out these people and stand up for what is right. What a ridiculous situation the SNP have created for themselves. If a feminist who stands up for women’s right to privacy tries to get selected, the NEC gets involved in a coup. Yet men can run in all women shortlists.

      Disgusting. If someone told me about this ten years ago I would have thought they were taking the piss but nobody is laughing now. Eventually the public are going to have a backlash against this stuff and it won’t be pretty. And it won’t just be the independence movement that people are turned off of, but this among other things is going to drive voters to the right.

      In the meantime we need to call out injustices such as this and not be afraid of the abuse we receive for it. Keep fighting the good fight smStu.

    6. Andy says:

      Transgenders are not going to be popular candidates for the vast majority of voters thats just an undeniable fact of life. Transgenders are a very small minority it would be madness for any to be made candidates in any election at any level.

    7. Big Jock says:

      The worst thing about these so called females.

      Is their breathtaking arrogance , that we are not allowed to question their biological sex. They can be very aggressive , judging by the twitter wars with them.

      As John Candy said:” Hostile & Aggressive , that’s borderline psychopath”.

    8. Flower of Scotland says:

      I’m afraid there is only one person in the SNP that you can blame for all of this.

      I’m sure you’ll work it out!

    9. MadCatWumman says:

      As a woman (not a ‘Woo’-Man!) – I abhor all women shortlist BS!
      It’s demeaning! It’s implication is that women are not capable of fighting and winning on merit. It’s a patronising head pat and shove to the front that the ‘less good’ kids get during the school christmas play!

      Labours poisonous leech has jumped ship and is sucking the life out of SNP.
      The folk at the forefront of the push for obliterating actual women should all have their own specialist MH unit! The mass delusion is unbelievable. And those who are now SO terrified of being labelled ‘ist’ or ‘phobic’ are piling on and ‘being supportive’ just so the poison won’t get turned on them!.

      It’s absolute fkin NONSENSE!
      The fact a party of government has allowed it to progress this far is unreal. Where are all the stalwarts of Indy?
      Where are the foot soldiers of SNP? It’s time they stood up and took their party back.
      Rot set in when they let ANY twat join and stand cos they needed the revenue and the publicity (maybe party went from ‘fringe’ to kaboom too fast to screen properly. But that’s NO excuse for the failure to act since.

      The folk hurting the very small percentage of genuine transgender folk the most are the vicious, attention seeking, misogynistic, hateful, overindulged wee toddleresque clique that are connected to their ex MEP.

      I suspect substances are heavily involved as well…but that’s just my take on it.

      Time folk in the party all stood together and told them to stfu or form their own party and get votes solely on their platforms.

      SNP has always been and should always be the INDEPENDENCE party.

    10. Lothianlad says:

      So much justified anger at what’s happening to the SNP. Is there a strategy by which we can get rid of sturgeon and the woke brigade?

    11. Fionan says:

      Using terms like ‘people who menstruate’, ‘people with uteruses (uteri?)’, people with cervix (cervices?)’ are all exclusionary terms, excluding many natal women from the term ‘women’. After menopause when menstruation ceases, women do not cease to be women, hysterectomy, which can have severe detrimental psychological effects on natal women and their sense of identity, does not mean they are any less women, and it may be damaging to women thus affected. Similarly, removal of the cervix due to cervical cancer does not make a natal woman any less a woman.

      I find it interesting that all the common attempts to distinguish real women from men pretending to be women are focussed solely on physical features and structures of young women, and are dismissive and exclusionary of older women. This seems to be yet another example of discrimination against women by a patriarchal society. As for the women with penises who insist that they menstruate, it reveals even more bias by them against women for the same reason – they only recognise young women as women and they accept the patriarchal stereotype of the term ‘women’.

    12. Big Jock says:

      MadCat – I am with you on that. What if on that shortlist there were 3 men more qualified for the job. Are we allowing talent to be pushed aside in the name of so called equality.

      I absolutely want women to be in politics and my current hero is Jo Cherry. However surely the best candidate should always get the job.

    13. Margie Davidson says:

      Thank you Stu – this is the reason I resigned my SNP membership after the Aberdeen Conference as I was horrified at their behaviour. Booing Chris as he spoke to a Plan B motion, fisting pumping when Rhiannon beat Colette in the election and fawning all over Alyn Smith.
      I will vote SNP 1 but my second vote goes to ISP.

    14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Sarah Fanet , (is that surname French or just a spelling mistake?)”

      It’s French. He’s from France.

    15. Garavelli Princip says:

      MadCatWumman says:

      “As a woman (not a ‘Woo’-Man!)”

      Indeed so. The word ‘woman’ is originally womb-man.

      Cutting off the male member and having plastic surgery around a remodelled scrotum, does not a woman make. It does not involve receiving the defining organ of womanhood – the womb. The nurturer of life.

      It is an abomination and a parody of womanhood.

      The SNP has gone mad.

    16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Woo-man” is brilliant 😀

    17. Daisy Walker says:

      Ahh but, they are so much more WOMANY than wot we are, or could ever hope to be.

    18. ElGordo says:

      Rainmaker come away from that man, you know he’s gonna take away your promised land.

      Good lady he just wants what you got, you know he’ll never stop until he’s taken the lot.

      Going to stamp out your fire, he can change your desire, don’t you know he can make you forget you’re a man.

    19. Andy Hay says:

      I’m beginning to wonder if this is a trick to make sure they don’t win the election and don’t have to come good on going for another Independence referendum.

    20. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’m beginning to wonder if this is a trick to make sure they don’t win the election and don’t have to come good on going for another Independence referendum.”

      I doubt they’re that organised tbh. But the SNP’s dream outcome of this election would be to be a minority government again. Not only would they have an excuse for achieving nothing, but they could also blame everyone who’s criticised them.

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Going to stamp out your fire, he can change your desire, don’t you know he can make you forget you’re a man.”

      You’re twisting our melons, man.

    22. Beaker says:

      I don’t want to appear flippant, but if I put on a dress, does that mean I am a suitable candidate to replace Margaret Ferrier?

      Sex / gender etc should not even be considered under the criteria for selection, as it has no bearing on your suitability for the role of a politician.

    23. Albert Herring says:

      How is “Fanet” pronounced in french?

    24. Wee Chid says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      22 October, 2020 at 12:00 pm
      “Ahh but, they are so much more WOMANY than wot we are, or could ever hope to be.”

      Only if being WOMANY involves wearing tons of make up and flashing your boobs for all to see. I’m sure they would suggest that I’m really a man because I was never into any of this. Gimme jeans and a baggy jumper any day while I hide my post menopausal body from the world. As Maurice Chevalier once sang “I’m glad I’m not young anymore”. See – I like musicals – Maybe I’m really a gay man in a woman’s body? Who the hell knows ay more?

    25. osakisushi says:

      WoS has really let itself down here. Stu always preached the ‘headline is the lie’ but despite this, has managed to produce one of the funniest and most accurate headlines ever.

      But it was a rotten movie.

    26. Morag says:

      I’m just checking my maps of the more remote parts of the ward before going out to deliver a supporters’ letter for the 2021 election campaign. I don’t know how much longer I can go on doing this.

    27. Morgatron says:

      Albert, that was the joke, im sure it must be Fanny, as it will be with a scientific T perhaps we should all challenge the (T)- trans agenda.

    28. Bob Mack says:

      Personally, I give up. I’m losing track of the terminology about who is what if they have something or nothing and cover it with whatever garment.

      Life was much simpler a few years ago.

      Is this the imperative rationale for the SNP these days?

    29. Terry says:

      Been thinking this a while.

      “ But the SNP’s dream outcome of this election would be to be a minority government again. Not only would they have an excuse for achieving nothing, but they could also blame everyone who’s criticised them.”

      In essence a unionist party Masquerading in Indy clothing.

    30. Bob Mack says:

      @Albert Herring,

      I’ll give you one guess?

    31. Kenny says:


      ‘.. a constituency already plagued by the abominable horror of Rhiannon Spear trying to get selected.’
      the Spear link directs back to this page (thankfully?)

    32. Donibristle says:

      One day they’ll run out of an Alphabet to describe the people the SNP are trying to push into seats….. Wish they would Stay at Home. Are they deliberately trying to lose seats or do they seriously think the electorate are up for the Alphabet Soup ?

    33. Bob Mack says:

      Fanet and gaslighting come to mind for some reason.

    34. Joe says:

      Lothianlad says:
      22 October, 2020 at 11:49 am
      ‘So much justified anger at what’s happening to the SNP. Is there a strategy by which we can get rid of sturgeon and the woke brigade?’

      Play electoral chicken. Refuse them any votes for Holyrood.

      The alternative can go 1 of 2 ways:

      1 – they will lose anyway

      2 – the will win and continue to basically do for independence what a Unionist party would do anyway. But if a Unionist party does actually continue the GRA/hate speech bullshit its on them and not on the indy supporting Scots.

      It just takes some resolve. No leader required. Simply refuse as an individual to support them in any way while they continue under this leadership with these priorities.

      Its all coming tumbling down anyway

      Right now id actually go as far as voting for a Unionist party on both votes if they didn’t all make me want to puke and G.Galloway hadn’t been rolled up here to make some sort of message of unity. Im going to stop, its disgusting.

    35. Morgatron says:

      Should it be not be Sarah Non Fanet?

    36. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rev (12.08) –

      ‘But the SNP’s dream outcome of this election would be to be a minority government again.’

      If I had read that here say, a year ago, I would’ve joined the angry Conga line of WOS critics.

      But, given what’s happened (should really say ‘become public knowledge’) since the start of this year? I could well believe it.

    37. marion Collins says:

      Over 30 years ago, I was at a “night out”, for men who crossed dressed (don’t ask)
      Heavily Pregnant with my first child, I was dressed in dungarees.

      One of the cross dressers said “you must feel so un-feminine, sitting amongst all us women in our finery” this received nods of agreement and sympathy (for me) from his fellow transvestites. They truly believed that to be womanly and feminine, was as simple as putting on a dress and a pair of high heels…

    38. Ian Brotherhood says:

      NS, replying to Ciaran Jenkins of CH4, just said that she feels she should be held to a higher standard of accountability than front line health workers?

      She’s flapping here. Badly.

      ‘I…me…I…my…positions like mine…I…my judgement…my priority…’ etc ad fuckin nauseum.

      Roll on the day when she says ‘I quit.’

    39. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Morgatron @ 12.33pm Apparently, Mr Fanet now has a fanny and is Mme Fanet.

      I have nothing against someone like her, who has had the surgery, but, her candidature still raises the Rev’s question about all-female short lists.

    40. Astonished says:

      Will these ‘fanets’ never go away.

      However I have some sympathy with blokes who have had the operations. I assume it must smart a bit. Its just that you can’t tell who are intact and who aren’t.

      Asking “Are you hiding a c*ck in your frock ?” would just be rude.

      Still I would much rather have miss fanet than the horror spears.

    41. Robert Graham says:

      OK I give up ,
      I surrender
      If the current House Arrest conditions are not bad enough we have a once trusted honest political party changed beyond belief , People who don’t follow or get involved with any kind of politics have no idea of what is going on .

      The management of the SNP know exactly what is happening because they are right at the heart of it and are making sure the electorate are not aware and never will be.

      This is wilful Deception on a grand scale and considering this is aimed at more or less removing woman’s natural rights by Stealth it is never going to be forgotten or forgiven.

      On a lighter note the postman has just delivered my wife’s invitation to join in the SNPs Christmas Draw , Now that’s really taking the Piss ,I don’t get any communication now because I binned my membership and told Mr Murrell why , I wonder if I will get a Christmas Card this year, oh dear heart broken now

      If ever we needed a total clear out of this party it’s now I don’t recognise this party now I really don’t and I can’t fathom how stupid the path they are embarking on is ,it just doesn’t make sense

    42. bipod says:

      Jason Leitch today said that the new restrictions would bring the infection rate down. Well we were told that about the measures that have been constantly introduced and changed over the past few months, none of them seem to have made any difference and we were also told when nicola shut down the hospitality sector, not that they will admit this of course. But these new measures are definitely going to do it!… This nonsense never ends.

    43. paul says:

      ‘But the SNP’s dream outcome of this election would be to be a minority government again.’

      This is how I’ve seen it for a while, the biggest fish in the westminster catch net, internal market bill to reduce workload.

      All that prestige and payroll in exchange for a few powers here and there.

      What is unattractive about that to a certain type of person?

    44. Astonished says:

      I have just read blair paterson’s nonsense.

      A great many furriners contribute and live in Scotland . They are welcome. As is Ms. Fanet. They should get to vote and stand as Scotland is their home.

      I just don’t want transgenderwoowoo science-deniers in any positions of authority. I don’t really care where they are from.

    45. Allium says:

      I wonder if the SNP would let a transman stand on an all-woman shortlist?

    46. Joe says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      22 October, 2020 at 12:55 pm
      ‘Nearly all these freaks who want to stand are foreign they do not belong here only true Scots born and bred here of Scottish parents should be allowed to stand to rule Scotland not interlopers go back to where their country and sort out its problems I for one do not want you here if I had my way I would deport the whole lot of you you contribute nothing but troble’

      Im not sure where the line should be on this. I don’t want to devalue being Scottish but I don’t want to go full ‘Nazi’ either.

      One thing I do know is that this would never happen the other way around. If we value Scotland as a nation then there has to be some sort of basic standard for influencing politics above simply being here.

    47. Scott Shaw says:

      You don’t need to put on a dress, you can just self-id as one without lifting or removing a finger (Or anything else).

    48. Bannockburn says:

      IN their present state I cannot bring myself to support the SNP anymore. Once an activist helping to campaign, I never joined the party and I am thankful for that. They have lost sight of their mission.

      I will not be voting SNP on my main vote as I have lost all faith in them under the current regime, but I will use the list vote for the ISP. I believe that my family will be doing the same, but I do not influence their vote.

    49. Wee Chid says:

      Robert Graham says:
      22 October, 2020 at 1:00 pm

      “On a lighter note the postman has just delivered my wife’s invitation to join in the SNPs Christmas Draw ,”

      Get your wife to apply to her local branch for a delegate pass in order to vote in the NEC elections at the conference and hopefully vote these idiots out.

    50. Balaaargh says:

      Women only shortlists should not exist. They are positive discrimination hiding behind a veneer of good intentions, treating the symptoms not the disease. And of all the parties, the SNP have a very strong history of women working in the party: Annie Swan, May Thomson, Winnie Ewing, Margaret Ewing, Roseanna Cunningham, Margo MacDonald, Dorothy-Grace Elder, Fiona Hyslop, Tricia Marwick, Linda Fabiani, Kay Ullrich, Joan McAlpine, Maureen Watt and more.

      The Rev is right to comment that Fanet (such an unfortunate name) and Wadhwa are very different cases. SF has made the life changing decision as an adult to put themself through this process and come out the other end. They moved to Lochaber to get away from the prejudice they were experiencing and has now lived there for several years. Other than the link to Out for Indy, what have they done to not be respected as a local candidate standing for their constituency? Is she any different from Sandra Macrae?

    51. “Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil”. Machiavelli

      ‘And it’s notably and unwittingly that heterosexual Trans-rights advocates of Trans ‘Self-ID’ legislation – many of whom genuinely believe they’re doing the right thing – are in fact themselves dividing their female demographic support…’

      ‘The #MeToo Truth of Nr5 #RampantSexism’ by #GaslightingGilligan;

      And #ToryAnalytica militarisation is still *inevitable*. (You’re welcome).

    52. crisiscult says:


      “the SNP’s dream outcome of this election would be to be a minority government again. Not only would they have an excuse for achieving nothing, but they could also blame everyone who’s criticised them.”

      This is why we’re on a tightrope. If I don’t vote SNP, they’ll still win. If I campaign or promote to others not to vote SNP, they’ll win but by less and be in minority government, and hence no indyref and probably just more of the same (Greens propping them up). If they’re reliant on a proper indy party, does that help?

      Any good news on the horizon?

    53. Lorna Campbell says:

      I’m not really in favour of all-woman shortlists, or of all-anything shortlists, although I can see that, sometimes positive discrimination might be necessary to break through carapace prejudice. I think we need to choose our political representatives on talent alone, but to take action, perhaps, if the representation of one sex falls drastically to the point where it is barely represented at all. My own SNP MSP is a family man and an excellent constituency MSP who understands people’s problems, whether they are male or female people.

      I really just don’t know how we have allowed things to get to this state of affairs, and, while I do empathize with genuine trans people and would never wish for them to be discriminated against, there seems to be a lot of hangers-on who seem to get excited about stepping all over women. We may be witnessing the actual projection into our mainstream, real-time society of misogynistic pornography, where parts of a generation of young men, in particular, are acting out their fantasies. What sexual fantasies people have in their heads is their business just so long as it hurts no one else. If they expect the rest of us to comply and collude in their fantasies, and against our will, that is a step too far, and, for too many men, women are either incidental or mere ciphers in that process, to be used and abused.

      I watched a video of a young American trans woman, utterly stunningly beautiful, intelligent and likeable, explaining that she was a trans woman, not a woman, in a debate. Even though completely transitioned, and looking far more beautiful than most women could ever hope to look, yet there were little give-aways that this was not a woman, but a caricature of a woman. The moves and gestures had been studied minutely, and she would certainly have passed in the street, but, still, it was a performance of how a man would see a woman and I can understand how men could be fooled by that kind of performance into believing a transitioned woman is a natal woman, because men have no real knowledge of women, just as women have no real knowledge of men. I think she was a genuine trans woman, on the side of the sisterhood, and appalled at what has been taking place.

      I think that this young trans woman was what most of us have in mind when we think of a trans woman, someone who knows they are not the sex they have transitioned into, but who are no threat to women. However, the door has been opened to others with, it would appear, a very different agenda and motives, and it is these people that the SNP has enabled to invade women’s spaces, and whom they would enable further to gain entry to all women’s spaces and rights without even an attempt to transition.

      Wadhwa proves that there are men out there who will try to cheat and lie their way into women’s most intimate sex-based spaces. His actions are such a cruel and despicable attempt to defraud women of support by their own sex in what must be the most horrendous of circumstances, so if any of the ‘wokists’ in the SNP dare to try and suggest that this would never happen with GRA reform, tell them it already has – without the reform. We can only guess at Wadhwa’s motives, but we already have enough recorded information on supposed trans women who have crossed the line and hurt women and girls.

      It is other hurt, too: taking away women’s prizes and places, such as the farcical situation of the Credit Suisse chap/chappess, who nabbed a women’s business prize on the day he was a ‘woman’ although there was also a men’s prize. Aye, right! Enough. Get this sorted, SNP. NOW. Or you will lose our votes. The EHRC does not require this all-out change to the 2004 GRA, so why the hell are you doing this? Make the 2010 Equality Act exemptions for women’s sex-based spaces and rights watertight. No more pre-empting the reform. Above all, TALK to WOMEN.

    54. Andy Ellis says:

      If nobody sets up a “FanetbyGaslight” Twitter account I’ll be disappointed. 🙂

    55. Republicofscotland says:

      I’ve no truck with feminism, but Sturgeon and her wokiest agenda, which as you sat excludes almost half of the population from standing in constituencies, which might actually want them is beyond the pale.

      Sturgeon is reshaping the SNP into her own personal image of what she thinks it should look like, and its an ugly strange unwelcoming image that most folk would feel uncomfortable with being part of.

      The membership really needs to get together and act, they’re losing their party right before their very eyes, and Scottish independence along with it. The latter though affect us all, and our children.

      I there no one within the party prepared to challenge not only this but Sturgeon? Or is it a party full of cowards, more concerned about the gravy train, than the future of Scotland?

    56. Mist001 says:

      “Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      22 October, 2020 at 11:54 am
      “Sarah Fanet , (is that surname French or just a spelling mistake?)”

      It’s French. He’s from France.”

      So, his name really is pronounced as Sarah Fanny.

      They’re seriously taking the piss.

    57. Big Jock says:

      Here’s the thing about so called extreme liberalism.

      It inadvertently damages sections of society, in order to allow minorities to do as they please. What I mean by that is abdicating your responsibility! If society lets everything go, then unintended consequences affect others.

      So with Trans people you say as a liberal:” Let them do as they please”. If you don’t agree with me then you are a bigot. Then when a man dressed as a woman uses the same changing room as your daughter. We have inadvertently allowed a potential voyeur or molester free access to a woman’s private space.

      Bad things happen , when good people do nothing.

      I hate extreme liberalism to the core. The people who live by it , do not give a damn about the consequences of their free for all.

      I have the same argument about independence with this lot. The democratic deficit highlighted by Brexit and forced on Scotland. Means extreme liberals can just say ” Uch well that’s what the majority voted for even if I personally disagree with Brexit” So they don’t stand up for what Scotland voted for their own actual beliefs.

      All in the name of trying to appear all things to all men.

      Never trust a man or woman with no opinions!

    58. William Wallace says:

      When Stu began the process of attacking the SNP, I initially thought that he might have been compromised. I couldn’t believe he was attacking the only party capable of bringing us independence. I could not reconcile the information presented with the party I have known and loved for much of my adult life.

      At first I tried the cognitive dissonance approach. An absolute refusal to integrate the information presented. Then I wanted to shoot the messenger (not literally obviously) as I became increasingly doubtful about his intent and motives.

      Then I thought back to everything he has contributed and sacrificed personally in our battle for independence and came to the realisation that, there has to be more than a grain of truth to what he was saying. I mean why would he lie when he always been straight about everything else and done so much to advance the cause for independence.

      As much as it pains me, he has (as he so often has) been proved right and everything that he has been so vocal about regarding the wokerati and the corruption in the higher echelons of the SNP is starting to reveal itself. So apologies to you Stu for ever having doubted you.

      As a long standing member of the SNP and regular financial contributor I don’t know what to do at this stage. Do I stay in the party and continue to fund it hoping to effect some level of change from within or do I cut my losses and leave? I can no longer ethically support a party engaged in corruption at the highest level but if I leave, I am pretty much politically homeless.

      It’s really encouraging to know that independence is within reach but equally, it’s also massively disheartening to think that I may well never see it in my lifetime and the people I trusted so absolutely to deliver it, have essentially betrayed me and everyone else that has supported them in the battle for Scotland’s independence. I am finding that very difficult to deal with.

      What can we do to counter this and advance Scotland’s cause (politically speaking) on the road to independence? Does anyone have any suggestions for a way forward?

      Asking on behalf of a nation.

    59. susanXX says:

      Truly disgusting that it’s happening Stu.

      Lots of great comments btl, especially Madcatwumman’s.

    60. wullie says:

      got my snp Christmas draw bumf today. Went straight in the bin, no point in sending it back with some helpful words they won’t listen anyway . Strange really as Im not and never have been a member Ive only ever been stupid enough to vote for them, sadly they are now a danger to women and that I will never vote for.

    61. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Positive discrimination is still discrimination. Nicola Sturgeon is the Valerie Solanas of world politics. She truly has no use for our sex whatsoever. And what women feel when looking at a misogynistic like Trump is what I feel like looking at her increasingly unhappy misandristic face. She’s a real creep.

    62. Wee Chid says:

      Mist001 says:
      22 October, 2020 at 1:47 pm
      “Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      22 October, 2020 at 11:54 am
      “Sarah Fanet , (is that surname French or just a spelling mistake?)”

      It’s French. He’s from France.”

      So, his name really is pronounced as Sarah Fanny.

      They’re seriously taking the piss.”

      Could have been worse. Could have taken the first name “Iva”

    63. Colin Alexander says:

      The SNP are discriminating against men. Well done for recognising this Stu.

      As someone who believes in equality between the sexes, it is my view that selection of candidates should be based on “best person for the job”, never because of them being male, female or intersex.

      The SNP under Sturgeon have become a party of colonial administrator discriminators.

    64. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      In case yer wondering:

    65. mike cassidy says:

      Well worth a read

      And another glimpse of Scotland’s future

      Women are being silenced for speaking out against gender-identity ideology.

    66. Breeks says:

      Top line trolling by somebody, Sturgeon or the Herald, or both.

    67. Bob Mack says:

      @William Wallace,

      You mirror exactly my own feelings in this matter. What the devil do we do? In practical terms I have thought of rejoining the SNP to help change it from inside, but obviously the NEC are now bending the rules make it more difficult for members to have their previous influence.

      Indy (laughs), is itself at risk if I do not help a majority at Holyrood who have that aim.

      I think supporting Woke candidates will also further remove us from Indy because is not their ultimate goal. They want elected to promote further change to BE A etc.

      It’s an enigma wrapped in a puzzle.

    68. Livionian says:

      Colin Alexander
      They are discriminating against men… and women, which is no easy feat and would be almost laughable if it wasn’t proposed by Scotland’s main independence party and party of government

    69. Wulls says:

      Patently untrue Stu…..They don’t even need to chop their willies off….. 🙂 🙂 🙂

    70. Muscleguy says:

      @Sharny Dubs

      We are only standing on the List as far as the constituency goes you are on your own as are the rest of us. I voted TUSC last time since neither SSP or Greens stood in the constituency. They at least were in favour of us being allowed to hold another indyref if we wanted to.

      When the candidates are finalised look carefully at their policies. I may have to spoil my ballot in the constituency. Anything writing on a ballot paper is read to the candidates. So state why you are not voting for any of the above if you have to spoil yours.

    71. Mist001 says:

      Giving the matter a little thought, I don’t think this is a problem exclusively created by the SNP, it’s just that they’re a bit more amateurish and naive than the others when it comes to policy.

      I’ve stated here before numerous times that I believe there’s a gay mafia/cabal running politics in Scotland. It was just a short time ago that the leaders of all Scotlands political parties were gay.

      Kezia Dugdale
      Ruth Davidson
      Patrick Harvie

      Even Fluffy Mundell was gay and these are the ones we know about. What else is happening behind the scenes?

      Of course, the obvious omission on that list of names is the happily heterosexual married couple, Mr and Mrs Murrell which makes them a kind of oddity.

      My thoughts are who is promoting this gay agenda? Why are so many gay people promoted to power within the political arena in Scotland?

      There’s something bigger at work here and it’s not just the SNPs doing.

      Maybe someone sees an independent Scotland as being the North Atlantic equivalent of Fire Island or Key West!!

      Or Scotland may well actually be the subject of an experiment. It wouldn’t be the first time that Scotland has been used as a guinea pig for the agenda of others.

    72. mike cassidy says:

      The irony here of having to fight the SNP on this

      By arguing they have overstepped their authority

      And that this is a UK matter

      How very 2020

      Permission granted for judicial review of act’s definition of ‘woman’

    73. A Person says:

      No, the SNP are not discriminating against men.

      They are saying “we must have all-women shortlists”

      Then they are saying, “anyone can be a woman”.

      Then all these lunatic men are announcing that they are women and standing.

      They are not discriminating against men, they are discriminating against both women and men in favour of a handful of nutcases linked to the dodgy, power-obsessed couple at the top of the party.

    74. Ally says:

      I’ve been doing research on this and the SNP are actually breaking the rules for an all woman’s shortlist.

      Equality act 2010 section 104 paragraph 336

      336.These arrangements can include single-sex shortlists for election candidates, but not shortlists restricted to people with other protected characteristics. With the exception of single-sex shortlists, arrangements made under this section must be a proportionate means of reducing under-representation.”

      Single sexed short list. Not single gender.

    75. Muscleguy says:

      Women faced with a job they don’t want to do get a man in to do it instead. That was how I eneded up foreman of a significantly majority female jury. So expecting women to vote for women to represent them ignores female psychology. Some may wish it were other but the size and strength differences make it a natural thing.

      On Saturday in the charity shop my height will be in use getting stock down from a high shelf. Where I was employed to put it in the first place. In the supermarket it is not uncommon to be asked to reach things for people, usually older women. I don’t mind in the least. My Orang Utan arms should be good for something.

    76. Helen Yates says:

      Nicola Surgeon took charge of a solid united party and turned it into nothing more than a joke, I’d say she doesn’t even want to win the election but we know how much she desires power so I doubt she wants that big majority that the polls predict, she’d have to act then and we know all she’s interested in is more powers, god willing this enquiry sees the end of her days in power because otherwise she’s going to get her one last term which is all she’s looking for.

    77. Bob Mack says:

      I have always found women better communicators than men. They read nuance in a conversation better than we do.

      I have found myself in a position where we were talking to other couples and I left feeling quite happy, only for the misdus to comment along the lines of ” I know what she was really saying”. It left me baffled till explained.

    78. Muscleguy says:


      Gay people are more often childless than straight people. This leaves them more time to pursue things like politics. Also there’s a long history of gay rights activism which therefore breeds politicians like any activist movement does. I hear this Indy stuff has done so as well. Go figure.

    79. Suzanne K says:

      William Wallace, change from within the party is now impossible in my opinion. We have passed the point of redemption I’m afraid.
      Maybe you should join the thousands of us who are politically homeless, and will not vote for any party that denies biology and throws women and children under the bus to further their dangerous ideology?
      I was until recently, going to vote SNP on the Constituency vote. But I can no longer bring myself to do that sadly. Neither will the other four voters in my household.
      I wonder how my intention will be reflected across Scotland?

    80. Bob Mack says:

      @Suzanne K,

      I think the SNP have crossed the Rubicon. It is too late to redeem themselves especially as they persist in their course.

      We need to find another home for representation .

    81. Stuart MacKay says:

      Lorna Campbell @1:37pm

      “I’m not really in favour of all-woman shortlists, or of all-anything shortlists, although I can see that, sometimes positive discrimination might be necessary to break through carapace prejudice.”

      But positive discrimination is never going to break the carapace of prejudice. If anything it will simply reinforce it. Women-only is a clear message that women can’t make it unless the rules are bent in their favour.

      What they should be doing is educating, training and polishing future candidates. Create as wide a base as possible and make sure everyone has the opportunity if they want it. Give them the resources they need then throw them out on the battlefield. Everyone will benefit. You’ll get a better pool of candidates who can hold their own and dish it out when needed. There are plenty of examples of strong candidates from disadvantages groups who made it regardless. How much better things could be if there was a system that encouraged participation and made sure the best were discovered and nutured to get them to rise to the top. In any field this would be a godsend.

      However that takes lots of time, lots of money, lots and lots of money, and a vast amount of effort and it doesn’t happen quickly. However that looks like a lot of work so lets do a touch of light window-dressing and declare the problem solved. Except it won’t be. Nothing much will have changed.

      Quick diversion back to the carapace thing which will distract my argument: When you do light window-dressing you don’t actually want to solve the problem because that would put you out of a job. Much better to pretend to solve it and, if possible, actually make it worse. Then your future will be filled with righteous indignation to the end of your days and you’ll have purpose in life. Not have much to show for all your efforts is not a problem – your virtue will remain untarnished.

    82. Cenchos says:

      Covid has highlighted just how hobbled Scotland is by an over-reliance on the ‘hospitality’ sector, in particular the tourist industry. The tourist industry has several failings, namely poorly paid, seasonal ‘jobs’, and a tendency for councils to allocate money towards things that benefit tourism, rather than the resident population (e.g. money can be found for yacht pontoons and decorative paving, while roads and building deteriorate). Too many politicians are too willing to sell-out their own constituents to the tourist industry.

      Scotland needs a medium term programme/strategy to prune back on some aspects of tourism (e.g. cruise ships and bus tours) while simultaneously aiming for the propagation and growth of research and development facilities (in, say, tidal renewables, marine biology, tree-planting/land stabilising [for areas like the Rest and be Thankful]; so on and so forth). If we can attract tourists we can surely persuade people to live and work in areas currently over-dependent on tourism, and seek to ‘de-seasonalize’ the economy, where relevant, towards some useful ends; and to aim to transform minimum-wage seasonal jobs into full-time, better paying careers. We have to stop selling out to tourism when there can be better alternatives.

      These are maybe the kind of things the SNP should be working towards: A bigger picture.

    83. Wee Chid says:

      Muscleguy says:
      22 October, 2020 at 2:14 pm
      “Women faced with a job they don’t want to do get a man in to do it instead.”

      That’s a bit of a generalisation. I accept that men are stronger, physically than women but, being brought up an independent woman who was encouraged not to let being a lassie get in the way of what I wanted to do, I seldom ask anyone for help – male or female.

    84. Wee Chid says:

      Suzanne K says:
      22 October, 2020 at 2:27 pm
      “William Wallace, change from within the party is now impossible in my opinion”

      I’m really banking on that not being the case but, if after the conference the make up of the NEC remains as it is I’ll definitely be chucking in the towel. I’ll vote for my local SNP candidate in the constituency because of who she is but they will not be getting my list vote I think there may be an AFI candidate standing who I can vote for instead.

    85. Jim McNeill says:

      Hey Stu, fancy adding a post to Parler button?

    86. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Say what you like about Shifty Blinkblink, but, for all her faults, you have to admire her re-assuring children regarding Christmas.

      BawJaws would never do that, he doesn’t have the common touch.

    87. Breeks says:

      Just ten and a half weeks until we are no longer protected by the umbrella of the EU Transition Agreement.

      The surreal absurdity of the Sturgeon’s SNP running all women shortlists while demolishing the definition of what a woman is, is positively Kafkaesque. And while this circus show unravels, eaten from the inside by it’s own corruption, Scottish Independence is circling the drain.

      Hogmanay this year is gonna be a blast. Thanks Nicola. Take a bow.

    88. Strathy says:

      The General Teaching Council For Scotland (GTCS) is introducing new rules for Scottish teachers from August 2021.

      Failure to perform as required by the GTCS means that teachers will be sacked and will not be allowed to teach in Scotland.

      From August 2021, they will be required to commit to new ‘Professional Standards’ laid down by the GTCS, one of which is: –

      ‘Committing to social justice through fair, transparent, inclusive, and sustainable policies and practices in relation to protected characteristics, (age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion and belief, sex, sexual orientation) and intersectionality.’

      Intersectionality anyone? No, me neither.

      Apparently it was first coined by a feminist (ironically) scholar in 1989 but it has been misappropriated by the wokes. Under their definition, it appears to mean that anyone can use any combination of factors if they want to show they have been subject to discrimination.

      This GTCS ‘Professional Standard’ is so vaguely-worded that if teachers don’t put the required effort into indoctrinating their pupils with any of the latest batshit rulings – they risk being out of a job.

    89. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Yesterday I saw an ‘alternative’ news channel listing mortality stats for England. They were up to date and the presenter quoted the Office for National Statistics as the source.

      I checked earlier for a Scottish equivalent but all I could find was data ending in 2017.

      Does anyone know where we can access up to date official mortality figures, with breakdown of causes, specifically for Scotland? I really just want an unimpeachable source for the bare-arsed numbers covering heart disease, cancer, dementia, stroke, and, of course, the bug.

    90. CameronB Brodie says:

      Denying the significance of the biological difference between the sexes, is probably the most dangerous policy platform ever inverted. It is counter to just about every tenet of liberal democracy and social justice. Though turning the clock back on women and children’s rights, is compatible with Brexit and Westminster’s disregard for international human rights law. ;(

    91. bipod says:

      Well its official now, we are now stuck in “five tier system” until a magical vaccine arrives to save the day, whenever that is.

      Jason Leitch says having a normal Christmas is a “fiction” now. He is right in more ways than he knows considering how many people have lost their jobs and been pushed into poverty thanks to the Scottish governments near useless measures.

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for the poor proof reading….is probably the most dangerous policy platform ever INVENTED.

    93. Graeme McAllan says:

      Having your Bobbit removed means you can’t add to World population – thanks 😉

    94. David Wardrope says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood 3:12pm

      Have you tried the National Records of Scotland website? (

    95. LeggyPeggy says:

      William Wallace @ 1.48 pm

      “As a long standing member of the SNP and regular financial contributor I don’t know what to do at this stage. Do I stay in the party and continue to fund it hoping to effect some level of change from within or do I cut my losses and leave? I can no longer ethically support a party engaged in corruption at the highest level but if I leave, I am pretty much politically homeless.”

      Like you I’m also a long time voter and member but please think seriously about giving up your membership . I and many others I know stopped our monthly donations and we now only pay the minimum amount required to keep our memberships , some of them are pensioners and now only pay the minimum £ 5 per year .

      We need to think carefully about who we vote for in the candidates selections which if I’m not mistaken begin with ballot papers being sent out this week .

      Let your branch secretary know that you want to be registered as a delegate to conference and use your voting rights as a delegate to vote in the elections for the candidates for the Executive, the NEC and other committees and that way we can change the party from within and vote out the careerists and hangers on that have taken over these positions .

      Why should we let others take over our party when like yourself we’ve been supporting the party for years .

      I’m still convinced that many that are members in the party now would have been in the Labour party if their vote hadn’t slumped after the 2014 referendum and we cannot allow them to have any more influence within the Snp .

    96. willie says:

      Couldn’t agree more about there being no justification for women only shortlists.

      Debarring have of the community on the grounds of their sex is quite wrong. That is discrimination.

      There is no doubt however that biological bias and the fact that women have children can be an impediment to a career. That is an inescapable fact. But things can be done to assist in this regard. More flexible working, creche facilities and so on.

      But banning men just because they are men – come on!

      And then going loopy doo and in the case of Stirling allow a man in women’s clothing to stand in a women only restricted contest, one really does have to ask the question as to whether the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

      People are people. All people are all due equal opportunities, equal fairness, and to do otherwise is outrageous. Quite why our SNP is so focussed on this trans – GRA – women only is truly incredible – especially when we live in a country where the arse is falling out of the economy, where people live in real deprivation, where our rights to travel and work freely are being removed – and we focus on trans – GRA – women only

      And today it surfaces that in relation to our new ” Saudi Arabia Wind Bonanza ” that not one of the 598 turbie – jackets for the two current mega projects underway off the coast of Scotland is being fabricated in Scotland.

      Maybe we should send all these TRA – GRA activists to Asia and let them get on with it there whilst Asia can send back all of the energy construction work.

      Who needs jobs, who needs industry when you can be GRA!

    97. willie says:

      And being frivolous about it, and not intending to send anyone off into a tizzy come hissy fit, do we not think we should ban names like Bobby or Fanny. Or what about Dick.

      Or what about the cartoons. Elmer Fudd. Well isn’t that offensive too.

      This is serious stuff. More important than jobs and the economy. Yours for Scotland. Vote SNP

    98. Beaker says:

      @Helen Yates says:
      22 October, 2020 at 2:21 pm
      “Nicola Surgeon took charge of a solid united party and turned it into nothing more than a joke,”

      I’ve never been a member of any party, but to me the SNP under Salmond as FM was a shining example of a disciplined organisation. That made them stand out and must have been a factor in the surge of popularity, independence notwithstanding.

    99. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @David Wardrope –


      It had what I was looking for, and link is below.

      The reason I’m posting this is because it is not shown on the ‘news where you are’. It’s never shown because there’s a danger people will interpret for themselves.

      So I offer no comment on it, except to point out that the ‘big’ lockdown in Scotland started on March 23rd and restrictions were eased from May 29th.

      Anyone remember that black and white drawing which some see as a beautiful glamorous young woman and others see as an old crone? Well, please bear that in mind when you look at this stuff and try to make your own mind up.

      These are the ‘official’ figures and illustrative graphs, from the National Records of Scotland’s own website.

    100. Hatuey says:

      Can anyone help with this? In the clip below featuring Leslie Evans, at 12.28.40, she states that “the Scottish Government decided” to contact the police regarding “three” complaints.

      When she says “Scottish Government” what is she referring to – Government as in Civil Service or Government as in Sturgeon/Cabinet?

      It’s odd, of course, that only two complaints went on to become the basis for the Government investigation of Salmond when they seem to have deemed that three were significant enough to warrant bringing the police in.

    101. Desimond says:


      Makes me want to rewatch So I Married an Axe Murderer where Mike Myers has a poem starting

      “Woman…WOH MAN!”

      and the classic HEID!! gags

    102. Abalha says:

      Many asking about the correct pronunciation of ‘Fanet’
      It is FA NEH NOT FA NAY (yes fluent French speaker before anyone asks!)

      And on Valerie Solanas, who someone mentioned, the book, ‘I shot Andy Warhol’ published 1996 and includes the SCUM manifesto is an interesting read.

      Sure most of you won’t be interested, but one quote from the author. Mary Harrron, in the foreword;

      ”The power of the ‘Manifesto’ isn’t just the attack on men but also the attack on the way women behave with men; it investigates the psychic damage done to both sexes”. (Page ‘ix’ 9)

    103. Achnababan says:

      Should the header for this astonishing story not be ‘You’ve got balls’?

    104. Bob Mack says:


      So she’s a posh Fa Neh. Eh?

    105. McHaggis69 says:

      This isn’t even a debate any more.

      Its a polarised, extreme tribal argument where the middle/reasonable ground has been forgotten/lost.

      I genuinely feel sorry for fully transitioned men, who now externally at least have all the physical attributes of a woman and live as such, who perhaps feel hijacked by a few deviant men who get their kicks putting on a wig and pair of stockings to get access to women’s spaces and who raise hell against anyone who says otherwise.

      I’m also a bit disappointed at how intolerant some of the comments on this thread are against what appears to be *everyone* who is trans.

      The Scottish Government proposal has done nothing to address the bounds of reasonableness and seems to be pandering to the extremists.

    106. cirsium says:

      @Ian Brotherhood, 3.12

      This is a quote from the above website
      “As the number of deaths from all causes have returned to average levels and the weekly counts of deaths involving COVID-19 are low, NRS has stopped publishing a full report on a weekly basis.”

      So that’s why COVID deaths are no longer announced.

    107. Bob Mack says:

      @McHaggis 69.

      Away and bile her heid. You know fine well what trans group We are talking about. No need to virtue signal to anybody here.

    108. cirsium says:

      @willie, 4.07

      that not one of the 598 turbie – jackets for the two current mega projects underway off the coast of Scotland is being fabricated in Scotland.

      Who needs jobs, who needs industry when you can be GRA!

      I follow Dick Winchester’s twitter feed and it is the same lack of action with hydrogen cell technology.

    109. Grouser says:

      I too got the Christmas Draw tickets in the post which I tore up in a rage and put in the bin. Why should I contribute more to the SNP when my perfectly legitimate email to Peter Murrell about the NEC shenanigans went unacknowledged, let alone unanswered. This is contempt for the ordinary member and they have the gall to ask for more money from me.
      I am retaining my membership so that I can register for the annual conference and do my best to rid the NEC of those who do not have Independence as their only priority. Also I’d like to communicate with others who are as unhappy as I am about the way the SNP is being subverted.
      I also want to raise the issue of none of the orders for the wind farm projects being placed in Scotland. That is a scandal of the first magnitude.
      So I will keep my membership for the moment and try to join with other like-minded people to get rid of the people who are destroying our chances of Independence.

    110. Ottomanboi says:

      The rainbow used to be a natural phenomenon bringing delight to the beholder it is now become a sign of everything contrived, contorted, false and unnatural.
      The real thing fades. Hope that the synthetic ‘thing’ fades too and never to be seen again.
      The idea of socially conservative Argyll and Bute being represented by a faux women is utterly surreal.

    111. A Person says:

      A very wise piece by Alex Bell former adviser to Alex Salmond. Incidentally mentions just how badly Sturgeon has actually handled covid.

    112. Andy Ellis says:


      I admire those with the stomach to stay: I’m not sure if I could have done it, although the Woko Haram take-over wasn’t the actual reason I left, it certainly would have propelled me to do so if it hadn’t been for “l’affaire Grousebeater”.

      The real question people (both members and the broader movement) have to ask is whether meaningful change can be effected in time? The evidence of the past few years, the campaigns against gender critical voices, the abuse of prominent figures like McAlpine, Cherry etc., and the obvious impunity of abusive TRA extremists in the party, all suggest the answer is a resounding NO.

      I have my doubts about the sincerity of *some* of those like Toni Giugliano suddenly calling for dialogue. Whilst he himself may not be on the extreme wing of the party on this issue, if you fly with the crows…..?

      Some of the more self aware supporters of self-ID and woke ideology (or just those who lack the moral courage to stand up to the extremists?) may finally have realised that the extremists have over-reached themselves. Time will tell. I have little faith in the sincerity of their calls for dialogue I’m afraid.

    113. A Person says:

      -Willie re: the turbines-

      That is really just typical. Is the bloody point of independence not so we can do a hell of a lot better than we do in the UK? We aren’t we using our natural resources to build up our own talents and economy? Foreign companies building and installing them means he only thing Scottish about them is the location. And as the seabed is I believe owned by the Crown then the only household in Scotland benefiting from them will be Balmoral Castle. Another excuse to posture. What a fucking wasted opportunity. What a fucking joke.

    114. A transperson at Holyrood would be the ultimate whitey woke trophy especially if he or she is a person of color,

      every city/country will need an elected transgender like having a tram system or a big wheel or a book festival or a cycle way,

      on 1 October 2020 in Belgium, Petra De Sutter was sworn in, becoming Europe’s first transgender deputy prime minister and the most senior trans politician in Europe,

      it`s not about the qualities of the transperson good or bad it makes no difference to whitey woke it`s all about making whitey woke feel good about themselves,

      it`s always all about whitey woke,

      they will dump transgender the minute some new cause becomes the woke vogue.

    115. Ian Foulds says:

      What happened, where is Independence in all this?

      Can only agree with most of the above comments.

      Thanks for another good article Rev,

    116. bscotfree says:

      I avoid the BBC but chanced to hear Sturgeon performing her covid show today. She was trying very hard to portray herself as the very honest leader taking very tough decisions and doing her best … hand wringing covers it plus a huge ego. Ian brotherhood @12:41 accurately describes her as flapping.

      A couple of days ago @indyscotnews posted an archived article by Neil Mackay of the Herald headlined ‘The end of Nicola Sturgeon? Be careful what you wish for.’

      It is best described as a ‘yes but no’ piece punting the possibility that Sturgeon may ‘just throw in the towel’ due to exhaustion – quote by her unamed oldest friend.

      Mackay cites the ‘Salmond Saga’ as the reason, but the article is a confused self contradictory piece which attempts to praise Sturgeon’s ‘incredible series of political successes’ (? beats me too). He also claims that she is ‘intellectually and politically the centre of gravity’ for the yes movement (fiction).

      He warns that if she resigns there is nobody to replace her which is patently untrue.

      Mackay’s offerings are invariably nonsense so most likely he’s just filling column inches but the very fact that he covers the subject is perhaps an early sign of the MSM softening the public up for her departure.

      She has for the past six years blocked independence in favour of building her own career so I will be delighted to see the back of her. A competent manager she may be but an independent thinker with strategic tactical skills she certainly is not. Whatever her reasons for her behaviour the SNP is a dead duck with her and Murrell in charge. I have never voted for any other party but will not vote SNP with this current lot in charge. So constituency vote nil, list vote ISP as things stand.

      It seems obvious that odious Robertson has been lined up as favoured successor SNP leader. I don’t know enough to hazard a guess whether he could win that contest.

      However I think Joanna Cherry for FM would beat him soundly.

      If the SNP is to be saved, independent minded MSPs and MPs need to organise a challenge to Sturgeon and elect a new leader and FM who actually wants Scottish independence and is prepared to take radical action to get it. The status quo needs to be shaken up by a new combative energetic leader.

      If the current SNP incumbents don’t understand that this is necessary and urgent, I see the unavoidable need for a new party of independence – and let the SNP die like new Labour.

      They should realise that they can’t continue forever to take people for fools.

    117. A Person says:


      I’m quite convinced Robertson would bomb as SNP leader. Nothing to do with his views, but he just doesn’t have “it”. He’s basically an allegedly pro-Indy version of Murdo Fraser.

    118. Lorna Speirs says:

      Now that’s what I call duper’s delight

    119. A Person says:

      -Scot Finlayson-

      With many of these woke types minorities are like a pet. I am a straight white male- guilty as charged, eh?!- but throughout my life have met, worked with, become friends with and respected people of all colours and sexual preferences, and nobody brought up by my tough old maw could be a misogynist. To these woke sorts these people are just categories to be pitied rather than people to be respected.

    120. McHaggis69 says:

      Bob Mack says:
      22 October, 2020 at 5:25 pm

      The very fact you describe my post as ‘virtue signalling’ just confirms the point.
      I’ll bile my heed when you get tae fuck, deal?

    121. Sylvia says:

      “For a very sad reason voting in Argyll and Bute is delayed until Nov 4th”.??

    122. Sarah says:

      @ Grouser at 5.32: have you got onto the SNP Members for Independence facebook membership? There are now 714 of us on there and some Resolutions have been produced between us. I am hoping there are now 714 delegates ready to vote for reform at Conference.

    123. Sylvia says:

      Re’ Argyll and Bute delayed until Nov 4th”. I understand it is due to the convenor of the association dying suddenly earlier this month.

    124. Kate says:

      Folks, your party has now become the plaything of WokeyWeirdoes. The worst of the lot are the aggressive misogynists pretending to be women. I have experience with them, and they don’t do dialogue – it’s their way or the highway. So you either need to find a way to live with that, or get rid of them/reclaim your party (and they’ll accuse you of all sorts of horrors if you do). Good luck. You’ll need it.

    125. Muscleguy says:

      A different culture can do helping parents with young children attend parliament. The former speaker of the NZ Parliament Trevor Mallard on more than one occasion held, fed, comforted infants in the chamber while their parents spoke. That included the Prime Ministerial sprog.

      Can you imagine the pearl clutching if that happened here? I was lucky, I was doing a PhD when my kids were small so I could do childcare at need, pick them up from the university child care etc. I could go back in in the evenings once the kids were in bed (bedtime stories were often my province).

    126. susanXX says:


      This is not extremism by any means but a man who’s had cosmetic surgery(however extreme) and hormones is not, and never will be, a woman. By all means campaign for 3rd spaces but don’t try to foist these men on women’s spaces.

    127. Graeme says:

      It’s perfectly obvious from looking at Sarahs mission statement what his political priorities are and it’s certainly not independence no doubt Mriduls is the same

      I have always voted SNP and could never see myself voting any other way and I understand the importance of a huge SNP win in the constituency vote no matter how I feel about the candidate.

      But I honestly cannot say with any certainty that could walk into a voting booth and vote for either of these men no matter how much I believe in independence

    128. Republicofscotland says:

      Is Russell just pandering to the masses knowing fine well nothings going to happen next year on the indy front. Russell won’t be held accountable as he’s standing down next year.

    129. Bob Mack says:

      @McHaggis69, (or maybe VAT 69)

      I just got to eff. When you needing the big pot for your big heid? Ha ha.

    130. Dan says:

      For all the Indy supporters reading that are not SNP members and feel frustrated at the path chosen by, and the ongoing antics of, the Party that is the main supposed vehicle driving Scotland to the destination of being an independent country.

      You can actually exert pressure because the Party holds canvas information on its supporters throughout Scotland.
      Get in touch with your local constituency office and tell them to amend their Activate database and the reasons why you no longer wish to be identified as a supporter of the party.

    131. Albert Herring says:

      “Could have taken the first name “Iva””

      Indeed, or even “Ivor”.

    132. ronnie anderson says:

      Tinto Chiel I left a post for you on only Connect

    133. Jack says:

      How can a Government who cannot understand simple biology possibly have any credibility when pontificating on Covid. No wonder the whole strategy is an utter shambles.

    134. Breeks says:

      A Person says:
      22 October, 2020 at 6:07 pm

      I’m quite convinced Robertson would bomb as SNP leader. Nothing to do with his views, but he just doesn’t have “it”. He’s basically an allegedly pro-Indy version of Murdo Fraser.

      I don’t see it happening.

      When the truth comes out about the conspiracy to smear Alex Salmond, I think there will be a lot more than one political career on the line.

      Sturgeon grooming Angus Robertson for leadership is her own wishful thinking and on-going denial, in equal measure.

    135. ahundredthidiot says:

      There is only one casualty in this skirmish with wokeness.


      Perhaps that is the Plan. I might not like it, but I doff my hat to whoever is behind it.

      I have only ever voted SNP in any and all elections – growing up in a town from a Proclaimer song, I just couldn’t work out why everyone kept on voting Labour – yet here I am…apparently in the wrong, certainly ashamed to have voted for a Party intent on destroying hard won womens rights.

      I will stop short of apologising to my unionist friends however (well, the males ones anyway), but when it comes to the HR elections, May 2021 – I think I will stay in and watch Netflix…….shit, I cant, I cancelled that because of Cuties……oh, well……maybe I will just stop in that day, wearing a facemask and a nappy, staring at a wall, feeling all safe and cuddly inside.

    136. Dan says:

      At least in Scotland you can compensate for having a mouth full of aching, rotten, crumbling teeth with a stylish tattoo…

      Those dangled carrots won’t be so appetizing if the electorate hasnae any teeth to chomp them.

    137. cynicalHighlander says:

      At bloody last.

    138. Contrary says:

      @ Hatuey

      “When she says “Scottish Government” what is she referring to – Government as in Civil Service or Government as in Sturgeon/Cabinet?”

      She was questioned at length to try and wring this info out of her, the best she could come up with was along the lines of; not her job; wisnae me; could have been anyone (which covers most of her answers). I assume civil service… But no ones knows yet I think. She shouldn’t have a job at all, she should be locked up in jail in my opinion. I can’t remember if Richards was questioned on it too now… I didn’t keep a clip of those questions anyway.

    139. MaggieC says:

      The next meeting of the Harassment and Complaints is this Tuesday 27 October 2020 at 10:15am and it will take evidence from ,

      Judith MacKinnon, Head of People Advice, Scottish Government ,and
      then from Barbara Allison, Director for Communications, Ministerial Support & Facilities, Scottish Government ,

      Agenda and Public papers for the meeting ,

      And I see from this that Barbara Allison is retiring at the end of this year ,

    140. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ronnie anderson: thanks. Have pure respondit, sir.

    141. Grey gull says:

      Breeks @ 7.34
      I hope the truth does come out, and not just the MSM version. However, when it does I can’t see how it’s going to help independence. All the unionists who think Nicola is doing a good job and would vote for her will disappear when they realise what she has been involved with. I’m nearly 60 and thought after 2014 independence might happen in my lifetime but now I think I’ll be like my parents who both wanted independence but have both now passed. If anything is going to happen it has to happen soon or Scotland will be totally shafted by Westminster.

    142. bscotfree says:

      – A Person @6:07pm
      Happy to hear you think he would bomb. An allegedly pro-indy Murdo Fraser is a fair if damning description!

      – Breeks @7:34pm
      If Robertson is closely associated with the wrong doing he should suffer when the full truth is revealed. I just hope the full truth is revealed sooner rather than later.

    143. Grey gull says:

      Maggie C @8.14. Thanks for keeping us up to speed with the committee info

    144. McHaggis69 says:

      “This is not extremism by any means but a man who’s had cosmetic surgery(however extreme) and hormones is not, and never will be, a woman.“

      Absolutely. There are only two sexes in humans.
      But you make my point.
      All I ever seem to see on this subject is “fuck women” or “fuck trans” and virtually *nothing* about maybe trying to explore a 3rd way of sorting this.

      I lay the blame at the door of the SNP for falling for what I see as an extreme solution.

      Its also a hill the Rev chose to (twitter) die on and as strong as he believes he had to be, I miss his Twitter account.

      Its a fucking mess and no-one seems to be talking about sorting it other than in terms of “fuck you, we’re right and you’re wrong”. A fucking mess,

    145. MaggieC says:

      Grey gull @ 8.18 pm

      You’re welcome , hopefully the sooner we can start to get the truth from these people the better .

      Then we can have a clear out of all the people within the Snp and Scottish Government who tried to put Alex Salmond into jail and get Independence back as a priority .

    146. kapelmeister says:

      Scotia Future….it has a certain ring.

    147. kapelmeister says:

      Breeks @7:34 pm

      “Sturgeon grooming Angus Robertson for leadership….”

      Sturgeon’s stable is so clatty by now I don’t think any grooming can take place.

    148. susanXX says:

      McHaggis I suggested a third way – campaign for 3rd spaces. If transwomen are men (and they are) then they have no right to be in women’s spaces, end of.

      But yes, I do think the SNP and SG have made a mess of this.

    149. Lochside says:

      Maggie C@ 8.14 on Barbara Allison conveniently ..
      retiring after forgetting about Lesley Evans’tweet’

      From the Scottish Government site, on Barbara Allson:

      ‘is currently the ET Champion for LGBTI colleagues within Scottish Government and is widely recognised as a supporter and champion of diversity and inclusion’

      Is a prerequisite for the higher echelons of the Scottish Government and the SNP to belong to a sexual minority? Why are people’s sexual preference seemingly a priority in their c.v. for these jobs?
      How would it appear to put that ‘X’ is a supporter and champion for heterosexual members in a c.v.( sic)?

      ‘Diversity’ and ‘inclusion’ appear to be auto-antonyms, or double meanings, also known as ‘Janus’ words. The whole Scottish government edifice is facing both ways and it’s so rotten with these inverted individuals that it will eventually disappear up its own virtue signalling fundament….along with any chances of our Liberation.

    150. Luigi says:

      All female shortlists? What a joke. There is no such thing as “positive” discrimination. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Surely excluding men is a human rights issue? Oh I forgot, single white males are fair game – no rights. Well with the GRA woMEN getting in on the act, it’s certainly come back to bite them in the ass now, eh?

      I support Scottish independence but I will find it very difficult to vote for a party bringing out this discriminatory nonsense.

    151. Ian Brotherhood says:

      45 mins since the last comment?

      Are ALL Wingers Celtic fans or what?!


    152. Stuart MacKay says:


      There are third spaces here in Portgual, mainly in swimming pools. They’re intended for families so daughters going to the pool with dad are spared any embarrassment. They work really well but that obviously costs money. However I doubt the Woo-men would be happy with them since it denies them their real objective 😉 Still as solution it’s practical, is acceptable to all and the rules, written and otherwise, are well known and well understood.

    153. ronnie anderson says:

      Tinto Chiel I sure the rest of the wingers share your sentiments of getting together but i fear that will be along time in coming .

      All the bestest to U & Yours

    154. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 9.39 pm

      The Football’s finished now so maybe more people might start posting again . LOL

      Did you see my previous post @ 8.14 pm with the links to the Harassment and Complaints Committee ,

    155. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @MaggieC –

      Yes, I did, thanks.

      I meant to ask you yesterday whereabouts you found the committee’s latest letter to Alex Salmond. The page I have on permanent tab (*) doesn’t show it.

      Doesn’t matter anyway, so long as some of us are keeping an eye on it all – the fireworks should start before too long!



    156. David R says:

      Part of me would like to think that this is a cunning plan by the SNP to be able to form a minority government again. Not enough to push for indy but with enough support from the Greens, Labour and Libs to push through their gender woo-woo bill along with other changes. They can then lay the blame on other indy parties and ‘bigots’ for splitting the vote.

      Unfortunately I think it’s the fact that they can’t see that they’re doing anything wrong. UK politics is too depressing so I’ve been watching the US recently. The stuff coming from the ‘left’ in politics and academia is no different from what we see from the new wave SNP. Anyone that strays from the approved line is shouted down. You must agree, or else. All pretty depressing and can’t see it getting any better with the rise of the bright young things in the SNP and Greens.

    157. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ronnie anderson –

      ‘Where there’s a will there’s a way’ an aw that.


    158. McDuff says:

      All of this is down to Nicola Sturgeon. For the party to be so obsessed with this madness it has got to be down to either Sturgeon has a biological problem herself or she wants to make her party unelectable which would in turn scupper independence. There is though something going on and it certainly is not independence.
      And again I ask, why are the rest of the MSP/MP`s so silent at this threat to independence.

    159. Scott McCallum says:

      Men have had advantages and some have abused their positions, so a rebalancing is required, but NOT a single sex list. It should require a minimum of 1 male or/and 1 female on every list. Anything else is an insult to a supposed democratic preselection process.
      With a historical perspective, where women have been underrepresented – partly it’s an accident of biology. There are differences, the only one that really matters is the use of the thinking organ the brain. Women have in some cases 10% to 15% smaller brain capacities and in effect on average 2cm smaller craniums. These facts should not hold intelligent women back in some areas the woman can compute verbally etc up to 5 times faster than the average male.
      Saying there are no differences and altering the sex at birth to the sex claimed is a fuzzy area that tries to defy logic. it’s not an arguement that can be decided without stomping on hard fought for rights. A new battleground for the sex zeitgeist chattering classes and dumbed down media is not a position I can be bothered entertaining.
      — The real future of the species in sex terms is the woman’s choice from sperm banks; perfecting of fighting diseases and degenerative conditions with a long view to ending cancers and the Malthusian world capacity for humans estimated at close to 30 billion individuals ; when we currently have 7 billion plus. Most of these problems are never considered yet, and only if ever in an independent country… which has agents of the UK actively discrediting any non manageable ideas and independent-think-for-yourself-individuals.

    160. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 10.05 pm

      The letter to Alex Salmond was on the correspondence page right at the very bottom of the page ,

      And from this page they are now showing “ phase – 4 Scottish Ministerial Code ,

      So hopefully they’ll start to move to that part of the inquiry soon .

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @MaggieC –

      That’s great thanks, have saved it to favourites so I won’t have to go looking for it again.


    162. Beaker says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:
      22 October, 2020 at 9:39 pm
      “45 mins since the last comment?
      Are ALL Wingers Celtic fans or what?!”

      New series of Mock the Week was on. Another comedy show 🙂

      (runs for cover…)

    163. Effijy says:

      There is no such thing as positive discrimination!

      It’s incredibly wrong if 3 male candidates were superior prospects to a woman who gets the job.

      People tend to give their vote to people they feel understands how they live and who have much in common with them. I’m afraid 90% of voters will never have met a Trans person.

      You say Fanet
      I say Fanny
      You say Woman
      I say One Man
      Let’s call the whole thing off.

    164. cirsium says:

      What happens when the focus of the Scottish Government/SNP is on identity politics rather than industrial policy
      “The Scottish Government did not place any requirements on EDF Energy to source parts of the supply chain for NnG in Scotland. So when the French energy giant started planning where they wanted to get jackets for the turbines from, they looked at who the cheapest suppliers are worldwide. ”

      In contrast, what happens when a government is focused on industrial policy (government in question is Norwegian)

    165. ronnie anderson says:

      Ian Brotherhood aye wheres theres ah will um writing mine jist noo LoL but it hiz to be done but ah hope tae hing in there tae we all can meet again .

      Take care Mr

    166. shug says:

      A Person says
      Ales Ball says Scotland has not done better than England but this if quite incorrect

      Scotland has around 8% of the UK population. Lets call that 10% to make the arithmetic easy.

      Deaths 7 day average Scotland 12.1 so England should have about 120. They actually have 150.5

      Infection rate 7 day average Scotland 1225. England should have 12250 they actually have 19552

      Alex Bell is big and ugly enough to know these figures so significant doubt must be attached to his position.

      These figures are rough but for me I’d rather take my chances up here.

    167. Big Jock says:

      Indy ref 2 hasn’t even started yet, and Scotland in union have already started their lies.

      ” Covid proves Scotland couldn’t have provided the capital for the Furlough scheme”.

      There are 27 independent nations ibn the EU. Many smaller than Scotland. All are dealing with Covid better than the UK.

      The Furlough scheme is entirely funded by borrowed capital. Even if it was the UKs money. Scotland pays more than 10% of that.

      Yet today we find out they are throwing more cash at England ,but have refused Scotland.

      Our own money is being denied to us to help England.

      At what point will journalists actually call out these lies.

      Everything on the unionist side involves dishonesty.

    168. Doreen A Milne says:

      ‘ Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      22 October, 2020 at 11:54 am
      “Sarah Fanet , (is that surname French or just a spelling mistake?)”

      It’s French. He’s from France. ‘

      Oh, dear god, please don’t say it’s pronounced Sarah ‘Fannay’? That’s just too much mockery!

    169. Fireproofjim says:

      Email from Leslie Mcinnes today giving me her CV for the forthcoming on line hustings.
      I knew she was transport convener for Edinburgh but thought I would check her out on line.
      Shock. Horror, Jings and Help Ma Bob. Two days ago, she says, she welcomed a large group of Sustrans delegates from all over the world.
      Oh my god, what the hell are “Sustrans” , and now they are descending on Edinburgh in hordes from all over the world. What do they do? What are their sexual preferences? Should I lock up my wife or my Dalmatian dog?
      Relief – they are delegates for “Sustainable Transport Systems” but these days anything with “trans” in it rings my alarm bells.

    170. LeggyPeggy says:

      This is from the Women’s Pledge page on twitter ,

      Here’s our #WomensPledge. Please read it. It seeks to protect women’s sex-based rights. If candidates are unwilling to support these rights then you need to ask yourself if you’re willing to support your candidates:

      Link to their twitter page ,

      And the link to their petition again , lets get some more signatures to it please ,

      The Snp candidates in the 2019 Dec elections were sent an email not to sign the Women’s Pledge .

      So it’s now up to us to take a stand and support the Women’s Pledge group , Men can sign the pledge as well as women if you want to protect your wives , daughters , mothers and all your female relatives .


    171. Big Jock says:

      Turns out it’s an old story being retweeted.

    172. robbo says:

      Re-petitions above.

      Never get these petitions. They never work for me. ALWAYS ask to share on facebook, twitter etc b4 accepting .

      Last daft petition i sign .Now they’ve got my name and email- why o why do they do this shit? Is there not and electronic book or sumit?

      Don’t do Faceshit and don’t do sqatter either. They can bog aff.

    173. Fireproofjim says:

      Big Jock.
      Alex planning to sue. Would that it were true but that article was from August. Anything new. ?

    174. James Barr Gardner says:

      Ronnie anderson says:
      22 October, 2020 at 10:46 pm
      Ian Brotherhood aye wheres theres ah will um writing mine jist noo LoL but it hiz to be done but ah hope tae hing in there tae we all can meet again .

      Hing – Hing may refer to Asafoetida, a spice derived from the plant Ferula assa-foetida, know as Devil’s Dung !

    175. Christian Schmidt says:

      “These are two very different cases. Fanet has undergone sex reassignment surgery”

      I’m glad it is recognised that this is something very different. And in my view Fanet is fine on an all-wmoan shortlist because

      “all-women shortlists are meant to be for people who have the issues and life experiences of being women”

      seems about as strong an argument that the 2014 referendum meant to be a once in a generation event.

      “Wings doesn’t even agree with all-women shortlists” So what is this about? All-woman shortlist exists because they happen to work better an ending discrimination than other methods, despite being seemingly discriminatory – incidentally the argument for women-only shortlist seems to me to be the very same argument in favour of keeping the sex-exemptions in the Equalities Act and against the GRA…

      In fact the whole thrust of the argument against the GRA – that in needs to be recognised that there is a collision of fundamental rights, i.e. a grey area, which has to be looked at in every issue on the facts of the actual issues, and there cannot be black & white fundamentalism that states that everyone has a choice to choose under every circumstance.

      But that works both ways, while sex is binary for maybe 99%, real trans people do exist and there is a grey area. This means (a) there needs to be a distinction between Fanets of this world and the pretend trans people and (b) what this grey area means may differ depending on the issues. (The latter may well lead to it being ok for Fanet to be considered part of an all-woman-shortlist but not participate in women’s Olympic events.)

    176. MaggieC says:

      I forgot to post this yesterday, It was an email from Lynsey Bruce at Aye Mail and he has stocks of PPE equipment .

      “ On October 31st, the Zero VAT rating on PPE items including face masks and nitrile gloves comes to an end. Unless the UK government changes tack at the last minute, this will mean a 20% increase in the cost of PPE from November 1st.

      We wanted to make you aware of this, and also to draw your attention to some price cuts we’ve been able to make on crucial PPE items including face masks, gloves, anti-viral wipes and face visors. “

      So if you need any PPE face masks etc please order it from Lynsey please and help him out when he has done so much for Independence .

      While your there you could also buy some Yes stickers and Badges .

    177. A Person says:

      -Breeks, bscotfree-

      Remember the chosen one was Derek Mackay who has the charisma of a Morrison’s microwave meal.

    178. ClanDonald says:

      The Women’s Pledge account has posted this list of candidates. This is who you vote for if you want rid of the Wokesters.

      Argyll & Bute – Breege Smyth
      Clydebank & Milngavie – Anne McTaggart
      Dumbarton – Scott Laffert
      Dumfriesshire – Joan McAlpine
      Dunfermline – Rob Thompson
      East Lothian – Stuart Currie, Paul McLennan
      Eastwood – Qasim Hanif
      Edinburgh Eastern – Ash Denham
      Edinburgh Southern – Catriona MacDonald
      Edinburgh Western – Ewan Hunter
      Falkirk East – Michelle Thomson
      Galloway & West Dumfries – Steve Norris
      Glasgow Cathcart – Junaid Ashraf, James Dornan, Jennifer Layden
      Glasgow Kelvin – Caroline Welsh
      Greenock & Inverclyde – Christopher McEleny
      Kirkcaldy – Roger Mullin
      Midlothian South, Tweeddale & Lauderdale – Christine Grahame
      North East Fife – Ross Cunningham
      Perthshire South & Kinross-Shire – Jim Fairlie
      Stirling – Sameeha Rehman
      Uddingston & Bellshill – Lynne Anderson

    179. susanXX says:

      Christian Schmidt, despite Faney’s reassignment surgery he still has no common life experiences with women that I can see. Please tell me where you disagree with this.

    180. paul says:

      susanXX says:
      22 October, 2020 at 11:57 pm

      Christian Schmidt, despite Faney’s reassignment surgery he still has no common life experiences with women

      As does the determinedly non political wing of the YES movement.

    181. rob says:

      Just returned from Facebook pages where I received dogs abuse because I was against the SNP’s GRA . Well if thats the type thats voting SNP for Independence , then I want no part of them or the SNP… they have lost my vote.

    182. paul says:

      But that works both ways, while sex is binary for maybe 99%

      Nope, sex is binary for 100%, otherwise you would not have to recategorise men and women.

      It only works one way, however you want to dress it up.

    183. Tartanpigsy says:

      IanB… No lol
      William Wallace, the poster, not the man.
      I quoted you post mid afternoon and posted on my local SNP group page.
      Chimes with a lot of my thoughts, I’m gonna, see how long the silence lasts. I’m pretty sure I know the ones who’ll be going ‘aw ffs,’ and maintaining an undignified silence.
      We can’t duck this shit any longer.

      Ps, Hi Stan, ya fud

    184. susanXX says:

      Well said paul. Even intersex people are either males or females with DSDs. Chimeric DNA is vanishingly rare and has NOTHING to do with transgender ideology.

    185. twathater says:

      @ ROS 1.43pm you said

      Is there no one within the party prepared to challenge not only this but Sturgeon? Or is it a party full of cowards, more concerned about the gravy train, than the future of Scotland?
      THIS really gets to the heart of the matter 5.2 million people in Scotland and NS is IGNORING the DEVASTATION that is being wrought on the people of Scotland with MUCH, MUCH more to come, and what is she concentrating on, NOT speaking out or addressing poverty and children starving, or families being threatened at losing their HOMES, NO she is more interested in favouring a TINY percentage of the electorate to create her own WOKE PARADISE

      If ALL the MP’s, MSP’s who TRULY BELIEVE IN INDEPENDENCE do not stand up and do something about challenging and removing NS and this cancerous cabal then you ARE COMPLICIT in destroying the INDEPENDENCE DREAM and the FUTURE prospects of our and your children, grandchildren and future generations to come

      ASK yourselves, is my cowardice justified in the continued abuse and denigration meted out on a daily basis to our people, when I can stop it by removing the obstacle of Nicola Sturgeon’s woke dictatorship and concentrate on winning independence for MY PEOPLE


    186. Craig says:

      One of the things I have really found weird in this whole arena is that the SNP have woman only seats yet by their own policies they undermine that intent as anyone can identify as a woman and thereby be eligible. Law of unintended consquences perhaps?

    187. ahundredthidiot says:

      Biden’s finished.

      His statement re oil is his end.

      The bookies better be up early to slash the odds on Trump.

    188. A Person says:


      You may be right.

      Not picked up on by the mainstream media who of course prefer to focus on the Punch and Judy stuff. They can’t imagine anyone considering voting for Trump so won’t notice that Biden has just threatened to destroy millions of people’s jobs.

      Trump is so horrible that I can’t stand to listen to him but Biden is part of the same elite that caused Trump’s rise. I would vote for Biden but there has to be someone better in America!

    189. Abalha says:

      Joanna Cherry writing in today’s Nationbal

      THE news that the Tories are war gaming a strategy to delay and then avoid a second independence referendum shouldn’t surprise anyone. However, Alberto Nardelli of Bloomberg is to be commended for another great scoop. The memo which fell into his hands is a document from a political consultancy firm that works closely with the Tory party (NB not the Tory Government) to look at tactics.

      They have identified that, if the SNP win a majority in next May’s elections, continuing to dismiss calls for another independence vote outright could be “counterproductive”. Therefore, what they need to do is to look at ways to delay or avoid a second independence referendum.

      Well, honestly, who knew? Nevertheless, it’s an important reminder that, whilst the SNP must secure a second vote for independence in circumstances which will meet with international approval and therefore the all-important international recognition, the strategy for doing so should not be one-dimensional.

      It also gives an indication of how we might want to approach framing such a strategy. Whilst I commend those who have fought against inexplicable resistance to have a Plan B debated at the SNP conference, I also agree with those who caution against putting all one’s cards on the table, particularly when dealing with the current Tory Government at Westminster.

      READ MORE: WATCH: Joanna Cherry takes Tories to task over failure to respect the law

      We should not cede power to these people. They are devious and unprincipled. This does not mean we should ape their behaviour but nor should we predicate our entire strategy on the assumption that they will do the right thing when their past behaviour suggests quite the opposite.

      As Pete Wishart found out this week, Michael Gove can be a dirty tackler. Ask the EU Brexit negotiation team if they think the British Government will play by the Queensberry rules in any negotiation with the Scottish Government? The answer is obvious.

      We can’t run a campaign on a series of indignant remarks. The campaign to secure a second independence vote should of course seek to achieve the gold standard of a second referendum based on a Section 30 Order as that would be by far the easiest route. However, we need a strategy to fall back on when sleekit tactics of delay and avoidance are employed. Time is not on our side. Brexit has happened. The transition period will be a distant memory by the time the election comes. Our parliament is going to be hamstrung when the Internal Market Bill becomes an Act of Parliament and the longer we stay tethered to Brexit Britain the more we diverge from the EU’s standards and laws.

      I am looking forward to what I hope will be a lively and stimulating debate at conference about the various options which might constitute a Plan B. However, I would suggest that the best outcome of this debate might be for the membership to mandate the newly elected NEC to set up a group to work on gaming a copper-bottomed strategy the precise details of which need not be advertised to the enemy.

      READ MORE: Joanna Cherry calls on SNP delegates to sack NEC members with ‘vendettas’

      Such a group would have to involve a wide cross section of the party from centre to left and not just comprise the usual suspects. If, as I suspect they will, conference delegates seize the chance to improve the governance of our party by electing an NEC which reflects the views of the membership and their desire for scrutiny and transparency, for which Roger Mullin has so ably argued, then it will be the perfect opportunity to make sure all the talents in our party are utilised.

      Contrary to a column in another newspaper earlier this week, there is more than one brain behind the Yes movement and the SNP also has quite a few brains to offer. Whilst some might say that the article in question was designed to provoke and is therefore best ignored, the reaction to it has exposed that a centrist, “steady as she goes” approach to policy and strategy is not shared across the board in the movement or the party. This is important not just for the policy vision for an independent Scotland, but also for strategic planning.

      SOME of the brains in the SNP who are not employed full time dealing with the Covid crisis would like nothing more than to contribute to the development of strategy but feel left out in the cold without an obvious avenue for such contributions to be meaningful. Wouldn’t it be great if these brains could be brought together to devise a strategy to be employed to deal with the inevitable Tory dirty tricks when yet another mandate is secured?

      We need to move beyond the childish assumption that anyone who questions what is understood to be the leadership orthodoxy is disloyal or wants to replace the leader. Let’s also challenge the narrative which seeks to label us all as either Salmondites or Sturgeonites. Most of us actually have a mind of our own and what we all have in common is the desire for independence. We are on the verge of realising our dream and we need to work together to ensure that we do.

      Equally, we must not let those who howl “no debate” on social media prevent us from getting our house in order for the struggle that lies ahead. A small but vocal group, many of whom are not even members of the SNP, seem to have got the impression that they have carte blanche to abuse and demonise anyone who disagrees with their views on gender self ID or Plan B. But guess what? It turns out most members of the SNP don’t like that approach and would prefer to have a civilised debate as we have done in the past over such controversial topics as Nato membership.

      READ MORE: Joanna Cherry: Why taking Westminster to court over Brexit bill may be a win-win

      At the Edinburgh Central SNP candidate hustings this week Marco Biagi argued: “The party is at its best when it is at its boldest.” It is a sentiment with which I wholly agree.

      Nor need we worry about scaring the horses. Today’s bold gesture is tomorrow’s mundane reality. For example, when Alex Salmond renamed the Scottish Executive the Scottish Government, after the first SNP election victory in 2007, some commentators reacted as though he was storming the barricades. Now no-one apart from some Tories questions that nomenclature.

      I have one final caveat. A lot of work has gone into organising online hustings for the selection of SNP candidates for next year’s election. However, I am not the only member who has been disappointed by the lack of opportunity for members to interact with the candidates or debate their answers. It’s a far cry from the lively hustings I went through to be selected as a candidate in 2015 and lessons must be learned for the conference format if we are to have a debate which will encourage fresh thinking to flourish.

    190. Robert Hughes says:

      Bravo Joanna Cherry , this is precisely the right message at , hopefully , the right time eg just prior to Conference . Are you paying attention at the back , front and , crucially , at the top ?

    191. Stuart MacKay says:

      But, but, … If Scotland is a sovereign nation currently in a close union with other countries and that union ends why do we need to seek recognition from others. Surely we default back to our original independent status. Did the UK need to seek out recognition after Brexit? What happened in the case of Norway when it ended it’s relationship with Denmark?

      I’m genuinely interested as it seems that nobody at the top seems to want to play the independence game without handing all the cards to Westminster.

    192. The Isolator says:

      JC is my MP and a damn fine one at that. She takes no shit from anyone.Surgeon included.She has so many qualities but I’m not sure she is leadership material.I see her more in an enforcer getting things done type of role.

      Intetested to see where she lands when AS finally lights the fire.

    193. Breeks says:

      Go Joanna!

      If the SNP doesn’t back you 100%, and without compromise, then they are damned fools.

    194. Nell G says:

      I was thinking about the motivation for allowing these guys to run in female only seats and the NEC forcing through this agenda. It struck me that it makes no sense other than to destroy support for the party. I reckon she will resign for health reasons before Brexit and before Alex submits his evidence to the enquiry but at a point where it will be too late to remove Scotland from the Union before D-day, probably in early December. That way she won’t have to face the music and will depart a hero – win win.

      Is this also just about her ego and legacy where she knows support for the SNP will plummet due to these policies but it will appear on paper that this was though her departure. If this is the case she is some kind of evil mastermind.

    195. Vladimir Putin today said:

      `Genuine democracy & civil society cannot be imported, be a product of the activities of foreign ‘well-wishers’.

      People in the countries where imported democracy schemes have been implemented were never asked for their opinion & their leaders are mere vassals.`

      sums up Scotland ruled by a parliament in a foreign land.

    196. Abalha says:

      In reply to Nell G at 0822
      If this is the case she is some kind of evil mastermind.

      Yip. It really is all about power, at all costs. Was she always so inclined, no clue but my experience of her actions fairly close-up in 2014, no doubt it was the power over a Yes vote, no question.

      And on AWS it’s meant be when a male MSP stands down BUT there isn’t an AWS in Alex Neil’s seat, rules bent to let Neil Gray stand? Obviously an area with eh a proud history of division.

    197. Ottomanboi says:

      Scottish nationalism does not need the SNP, but plainly the SNP needs and is exploiting Scottish nationalism for fractional ends. Some radical political reassignment, restorative surgery to put the spunk back? The old party has been so underpowered of late.

    198. Abalha says:

      The Cunninghame North shambles, latest instalment,
      ‘special measures’ now, was there talk of a death as well?

    199. Nell G says:


      Thanks for the reply.

      What did we do to deserve this monster? She has obviously been planning this for months. Angus Robertson is just being parachuted into Edinburgh as the chosen successor and the fall guy. You know what she does to “friends”.

    200. Phydaux says:

      At least with the woke weirdos, what you see is what you get…a bunch of mysoginistic, hate-filled, deviant and fetishistic weirdos. Is it a cult group think thing? Are they trans aliens?

      Are Rhiannon Spear and Shirley-Anne Somerville two of Nicola Sturgeon’s “ special people” , chosen to cause untold harm to children’s’ development, health and wellbeing with their so called sex and relationship “ education”? Ms Somerville instructed her civil servants to write a letter to her
      “ colleagues “ i.e. those lobbyists, Stonewall etc, funded by the Scottish Government with 3.5 million pounds from the public purse, to apologise that GRA changes were put on hold but that this wouldn’t stop them going ahead with their plan to introduce it in schools. Ms Spear boasted that they’d embedded it in the Curriculum for Excellence policy. They’d been advised not to tell parents because they won’t like it and hence the secrecy and manipulation behind the scenes.

      Primary school children being taught that they are entitled to physical pleasure in all aspects of their bodies? Secondary school girls being taught that anal sex is ok, as long as they use plenty lube? Pornography as homework? None of this is age and stage appropriate and is tantamount to grooming, IMO, and makes me feel physically sick.

      The Named Person shitshow was successfully challenged and fell by the wayside. It is guaranteed that, once parents and women cotton on to the even bigger shitstorm of the deviant, warped, disturbing and deliberate harm this will cause to our children, Nicola Sturgeon and her “ special people” will be toast. Pleased to see the challenge to the definition of woman and more than willing and eager to contribute to their fundraiser.

      Things have a way of swimming up into the light. It doesn’t matter how far you’ve clawed your way up the ladder, the bodies never stay buried forever. Shit floats. Think on this SNP MPs and wannabe MSPs. Unless and until you’re prepared to break cover and have the courage to take a stand on this and everything else being highlighted by Stuart, you are complicit in your silence and you will never get my vote.

    201. susanXX says:

      Well said Phydaux!

    202. Muscleguy says:

      The mode of our achieving independence is not what the international community will look at. They want to see an agreed and orderly transition with WM. That is how we will be judged. The trick is not to UDI. Announce our intention to withdraw from the Treaty of Union, subject to a confirmatory referendum all under international law. That is not a UDI and a Yes in the referendum would simply require WM to enter talks so again it’s the satisfactory and agreed outcome of the talks that matter.

      We won’t be requiring anyone to recognise us until after the Yes vote at the earliest but more likely after the talks conclude satisfactorily. The absence of recognition before that need not concern us.

      This idea that anything other than an agreed S30 referendum would amount to UDI is simply wrong and politicking. Cherry and other SNP bods are trying to get Sturgeon to threaten a ‘Plan B’ scenario to pressure Johnson to concede a S30 in order for the process to be orderly. WM doesn’t need more disorder after Brexit.

      So don’t mistake the politics for the reality of how we COULD become independent outwith a S30. Johnson needs ideally to understand that we can and will go there. The problem with Sturgeon is nobody believes she would. That is a problem. New FM or Sturgeon ditching the “legal S30” rhetoric would change the game.

      The more talk we can generate about Plan B schemes the better.

    203. Astonished says:

      Phydaux – spot on. Exactly this.

      Hopefully shirley-anne somerville will not be re-selected.

      To the fence-sitting MSPs – no amount of sophistry will save you. Speak out now for tomorrow will be too late.

    204. cynicalHighlander says:

      That Herald article.

    205. Grey Gull says:

      A wee video on behalf of Marco Biagi’s campaign for selection. Quite clever using the woman from the 2014 “eat your cereal” video but when she says about Nicola, “She’s genuine, you know” I think, really??

    206. Willie says:


      The NEC have stepped in and cancelled Cunnighame North’s hustings following last week’s announcement by leadership preferred Osama Saeed or Osama Butta announcement that he was suspending his campaign.

    207. Christian Schmidt says:

      @susanXX: “despite Faney’s reassignment surgery he still has no common life experiences with women that I can see. Please tell me where you disagree with this.” Well if Faney has been living as a trans woman since 2016, I’d go for ‘little’ (or maybe ‘some’) and not none? And thus in this case I think it can be left to the members to decide what they think about it.

    208. Breeks says:

      Muscleguy says:
      23 October, 2020 at 10:02 am

      The mode of our achieving independence is not what the international community will look at. They want to see an agreed and orderly transition with WM. That is how we will be judged. The trick is not to UDI…

      I agree.

      A UDI has connotations we neither need nor want.

      Scotland as one signatory in a bilateral treaty between two constitutional equals, has a sovereign right to exit the Union and thereby end the Union, and nobody except Scotland (or England in it’s reciprocal capacity) can exercise that sovereign right.

      Furthermore, if Scotland was to declare the Treaty of Union breached, citing Scotland’s unconstitutional Brexit subjugation, I don’t believe the UK / English Parliament under Queen Lizzie, would have any constitutional leg to stand on and formally object or dispute Scotland’s rights.

      Thus Scotland neither requires England’s, or the International Community’s permission or consent to terminate the Union.

      Because the Union would not then exist, I do not believe the International Community could simply continue to ‘recognise’ the UK, because the UK would not exist.

      In my inexpert opinion, if the Union Treaty no longer exists, then the International Community would be obliged to recognise the separate Kingdoms of Scotland and England as they were before the Union.

      It would be unlawful if they didn’t, and set a terrible precedent and rod for their own back if they did anything else.

      The one caveat, which I confess to know little about, is why the Union survived the repeal of the Union by Bonnie Prince Charlie, who was the legitimate heir to Scotland’s throne, and his revokation of the Treaty should have stuck. But who was there to serve justice on the military Superpower of it’s day, the British Empire, which didn’t give a fk about anybody’s constitutional rights or sovereignty.

      One more constitutional injustice suffered upon Scotland, but in the 18th Century, there was a cacophony of colonial injustice going on.

      That was then. This is now. The concept of International law is more mature and orderly now… I think.

    209. Breeks says:

      … And just to add.

      UDI isn’t the only innappropriate terminology you hear banded about.

      The demise of the UK Treaty of Union would NOT be an act of secession, Scotland would not be the seceding state, we would not be ‘separatists’ in the way Brexiteers were never described as separatists because they wanted to leave Europe.

      Scottish Independence is not an act of creation, it is not the birth of a new Nation, but the end of Treaty which has an old nation shackled at the ankle.

    210. Balaaargh says:

      Well said, phydaux. Sturgeon and Somerville go back a long time. Somerville joined the NEC of the YSN at the same time as Sturgeon took over from Robison as convener.

    211. Allium says:

      Its not possible to live as a woman. You either are one or you aren’t. How other people treat you has no effect on what you fundamentally are, your sexed body. It just means that sexism is still a thing. And largely transwomen simply don’t pass. So they are treated as transwomen – whether positively or negatively, that’s still going to be a male experience of sexism.

      Its perhaps slightly more complex for transmen as testosterone is truly transformative, and while young enough, passing boyishness is very achievable for them. In that sense they may receive treatment similar to many men. They still aren’t male though, and the only type of living as a man they can aspire to is triggering sexist levers in society. That has nothing to do with biological sex.

      All that said I 100% support their wishes to dress and present as they wish. Good luck to them. If it were possible to change sex, I wouldn’t care in the slightest that people wanted to. But its cruel to pretend its possible when its not, and wrong to expect others to pretend that it is possible, or that being born in the wrong body is a thing. You are your body.

      It is a shame that the TRA organisations aren’t open to third, stigma free mixed sex spaces which they and their supporters and many others could all use. It seems to be the perfect solution for all.

    212. Beaker says:

      I don’t really understand laws about treaties and such like, but there is one comment that had me thinking (I know, careful now).

      “Furthermore, if Scotland was to declare the Treaty of Union breached, citing Scotland’s unconstitutional Brexit subjugation.”

      Now I understand exactly what that means, but as the EU did not exist at the time of the Treaty of Union, would that not make the Brexit argument irrelevant, considering that the EU Referendum was held as a UK-wide vote, and that the Treaty of Union did not include anything about leaving the EU?

      I’m not trying to start a war here, but trying to imagine how it might play out in court. I just worry that every time a valid legal argument is raised, it is overridden by other legislation.

    213. mike cassidy says:

      Allium 11.40

      The transactivists are not open to third category spaces because its not about the spaces

      Its about who uses the spaces

      They want into those spaces BECAUSE actual females use them

      If actual females decided to stop using their current safe spaces

      They wouldn’t be interested in them either

    214. Graf Midgehunter says:

      I still can’t understand this wonky woo-hoo gibberish that haunts the SNP and the Stonewall/Mermaid loonies.

      Trans means transition from one starting point to an end point. To be a transwoman you have to start off as a biological male.

      After vacating your womb/home for nine months, you don’t as a nought year old baby start up a discussion with the nurses and doctors as to what your sex is..!
      They check whether you have a penis or a vulva, boy or girl, male or female.
      One or the other of the only two possibilities as to your sex.

      Gender has nothing to do with it. Gender is how you as a person, later in life, may wish to express your inner feelings, which may or may not diverge from your actuall sex.

      If, in this case a biological man (Faneh) feels and wishes to be become a woman and is prepared to do everything, incl. the necessary surgery, then that has to be respected and supported.

      Self-ID and then trying to muscle in on the domain of biological women is just deceit.

    215. Colin Alexander says:

      There is nothing wrong with UDI. It’s a phrase that describes a state declaring its independence, nothing more.

      It’s not a description of a legal or illegal process. What is important is the legality or illegality of the process preceding the UDI.

      In my opinion, Scotland resiling the Treaty of Union appears to me to be a legal and legitimate way of achieving independence.

    216. Daisy Walker says:

      Beaker, you ask an interesting question.

      A core principle of the Treaty of Union was that All parts of the UK would be able to trade with other parts of the world on the same terms as any other part of the UK.

      The Withdrawal Agreement – signed with the EU – but could just as easily be signed with America, or Mars… allows Northern Ireland to continue to trade with the EU on EU standards, but not rUK.

      A fundamental breach of the Treaty of Union. The fact that (as a block) the EU is a relatively new trading partner – does not seem to me to be part of the argument.

      The ‘it was a UK wide vote’ argument would have more oomph to it, if the vote in Scotland had been more mixed, but since every single part of Scotland voted to Remain, and since we have a reconvened parliament to represent us and negotiate our democratically expressed wishes (hence the reason Holyrood is in real danger) I would suggest that theme does not have too much going for it.

      If the ToU had stated – all parts of the UK to trade on the same terms – with existing trading blocks only, and any new trading blocks set up, the different parts of the UK could negotiate their own trade deals separately – then your concern might have merit, but then with over 300 years of UKtogetherness – one would have to ask, where are the examples of that happening before? They do not appear to exist.

      Hope the above makes sense. Kind regards.

    217. A Person says:

      -Daisy Walker-

      Sounds a watertight case to me.

    218. Ian Brotherhood says:

      FFS, Nicola’s about to burst into ‘We’ll Meet Again’…

    219. Beaker says:

      @Daisy Walker says:
      23 October, 2020 at 12:22 pm
      “Hope the above makes sense. Kind regards.”

      It does! But I think I will leave the legal stuff to the QCs and stick to spreadsheets. 🙂

    220. Sarah says:

      Stop the Scottish Government redefining “woman” to include men – a Crowdjustice fundraiser by “For Women Scotland”.

      Lorna Campbell has posted the link on Ian Lawson’s blog today, along with her usual thoughtful analysis of the problem we are faced with.

    221. Stuart MacKay says:

      So 5 levels, numbered 0 to 4. Was this system designed by computer scientists? It looks like we are preparing for eternal restrictions, where the Scottish Government has always been at war with Covid.

      Somewhat tongue in cheek, but not entirely, unfortunately.

    222. LeggyPeggy says:

      Latest post from Iain Lawson and it’s a guest post by Lorna Campbell .


      IAIN Lawson’s blog is full of information and facts on many topics, not least independence, and it has also shown support for Scottish women’s plight under the onslaught of the GRA Reform legislation that has been put to one side for now, but which is certain to make its appearance again after the 2021 Scottish election, especially if there is a large win for the SNP.

      As most people who are avid blog followers know, but, as much of the wider population of Scotland does not appear to know, there is now a serious threat to women’s very existence from the proposed GRA reform and ‘hate crime’ legislation, which may seem as if they have been set aside, but that is actually far from the case, and a big win for the SNP, in 2021, will almost certainly see them revived with a vengeance

      And a link to the FWS crowdfunding page .

    223. Bailey says:

      Regarding the posts on the treaty above, the treaty makes it clear that we’re an equal partner not a subordinate. England has acted in bad faith since day one in treating us like a colony. As Daisy said above, it doesn’t matter that the EU didn’t exist in 1707, the “breaches” are in the way we’re treated irrespective of whether it to do with the EU or any other entity.

      England is just another signatory. They don’t have any right to remove us from the EU without our say-so. Any trade deal which allows Northern Ireland to trade on EU terms but not Scotland is a breach of Article 6; it wouldn’t matter who the other entity was, whether it was the EU or the USA. Nicola Sturgeon is being badly advised. If we went to the EJC, England wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. The English establishment know full well that they are acting ultra vires. They obviously can’t believe their luck that the Scottish Government have been somehow stymied.

    224. Alf Baird says:

      @ Beaker

      Any signatory party may withdraw from a treaty (ECJ 2018) when it is no longer in its national interest and/or when its alliance partner does not behave honorably (Hamilton & Herwig 2004).

      A majority of Scotland’s sovereign national representatives, much as they agreed to the Treaty, may therefore lawfully end the Treaty.

    225. LeggyPeggy says:

      Sarah @ 12.48 pm
      Me @ 1.01 pm

      Sorry I missed that you had mentioned Lorna Campbell’s post on Iain Lawson’s blog , I’ve put up the link to the FWS’s crowdfunding page so hopefully posting it here will help to raise awareness of their case .

      At least they are standing up for our rights as women .

    226. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Yesterday (4.27) I posted this link:

      It didn’t get much reaction here. I also tweeted the link and received a Direct Message from someone asking why I had posted it and what I thought it meant. I replied that it appeared to show that ‘lockdown’ exacerbates mortality.

      What follows is the compiled replies. The author has given me permission to share this on condition that it remains anonymous. I haven’t altered the content in any way, nothing has been omitted.

      Please read without prejudice:

      ‘I have never believed in the govt narrative some will think me a conspiracy theorist, I have many reasons why. First is my mother was diagnosed in Nov 2018 with Covid although not this strain she was hospitalised and put on oxygen.. spent 8 days in hospital, she is still with us (age 75) she suffers recurrences each year always between Oct – Jan seasonal cold flu time. For the past 2 years prior to lockdown I have taken her to her monthly hospital checkup where the always take blood. It was only after 10 months of these hospital appointments that they told us ‘your mum has a very rare virus which we did not expect her to survive’ they told us it was Covid a type of Coronavirus, she has never regained her sense of taste or smell. They take her blood and send it to the London school of tropical medicine as they discovered her immune system is very active in producing antibodies.. her blood group is O rhesus negative. No one is our family was told to avoid my mum they only time she was in isolation was her initial stay in hospital in 2018. Currently she is suffering a recurrence and is on steroids. Initially they questioned her and the whole family about our travel and whether any of us had been to the Far East.. no none of us have ever been. Her symptoms each recurrence are much like seasonal flu, dry hacking cough, headache bit of a temp, sore muscles, tight chest …,since last Monday she is back on steroids.. but not in hospital at home and of course no isolation we all still visit her and each other including my baby nephew who is only 9 months… none of us has caught it.. her doc has told us she is not infectious and by now we are all probably immune.

      2nd reason I don’t believe is that early April this year (8th) my youngest daughter was diagnosed with a brain cancer (GBM4) it’s terminal she lives in Gloucestershire we were given govt special dispensation to travel down to see her, she Qs shunted around 3 hospitals before they operated.. each one of them like the Marie Celeste, her treatment was delayed and actually this month again delayed and it is much the same for terminal cancer patients across uk… hi know this because I joined a support group for parents & patients and the stories posted there are heartbreaking.

      3rd reason I myself am a x 2 cancer survivor and was due my checkup this June, it was cancelled by NHS .. I had symptoms so I called my Oncologist directly he told me if I could pay to go private he could see me at BMI Rosshall… I paid I was seen and had several minor procedures.. all good and sorted with results in 10 days! Btw Rosshall was also empty he told me much about the PCR tests and that he virtually had no patients due to lockdown and because many even with symptoms, like me, were too scared to attend GP or hospitals. I called Rosshall at 11am and had an appointment at 6pm same day, first procedure in the op theatre was conducted same evening at 7.30. I now fully understand why my mum never has the nasal swab test but an actual blood test at her hospital appointments.
      4th reason in one of my campaign teams is a retired research scientist an epidemiologist (retd Jan 2020) he told me about PCR too he also explained live and ‘dead’ virus dna and all about his part in an 800 case against GSK in England. GSK paid out of court settlements to all 800 for damages caused by the MMR vaccine. He has kept copies of the case files.

      So as you can see it’s not that I don’t believe there is a virus .. but its not as deadly as they make it out. This is about control and testing how easy it is to control and lockdown populations whilst removing their rights. Call it agenda 21 if you like … I don’t know, but I do know I don’t trust them and I won’t be being vaccinated and neither will any member of my family.’

    227. Bailey says:

      Alf @1.08 – who would have thought that we’d eventually end up in this position with a majority of SNP parliamentarians who won’t act. The founders of the SNP would have loved to have been in this position, but they were obviously real leaders.

      I was never a fan of Nicola’s leadership but I knew the day after the 2016 brexit vote when she went junketting off to the EU that she was being badly advised. That was the start of the ill-advised “stop brexit” for the UK nonsense. We should have gone down the legal route re the treaty after it became clear that England was going to force us out of europe like an English shire county.

    228. Joe says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Yes. But David Icke.


    229. Republicofscotland says:

      So Sturgeon said at her daily Covid briefing today that politicians shouldn’t criticise Civil service staff. Apparently not even if they cost the taxpayer over half a million pounds, as Leslie Evans has, not to mention what the real cost (must be millions) of the failed set up of Alex Salmond.

      Meanwhile the other woke ran party the Greens are holding their conference today, Harvie’s aspirations reach the mighty heights of overtaking SLAB for third spot at Holyrood. With cherished dreams like that who needs independence.

    230. Sarah says:

      @LeggyPeggy: I was glad you posted as you managed a link – far more helpful than mine!

    231. Alf Baird says:

      Bailey @ 1.34

      I wrote to Ms Cherry and other MPs a while back asking why Scotland’s third successive majority SNP MP’s were still unwilling to assert Scottish sovereignty. I also asked why she appeared to be more interested in legally testing the sovereignty of Westminster MP’s re brexit or the prorogue than testing (if she was so uncertain) the sovereign power of Scotland’s MP’s to withdraw Scotland from the UK union treaty alliance. Nae reply! Its as if the Treaty of Union does not exist, nor Scottish sovereignty, as Scotland’s SNP MP’s continue to ignore both. Yet the ToU and Scottish sovereignty remain the lawful route out of the UK midden, much as it was the route in.

    232. Republicofscotland says:

      Here’s hoping that this new indy party at Holyrood Scotia Future can take some List and Constituency seats seats from the undead parties at Holyrood, namely the Lib/Dems, the Tories and Labour.

      I don’t even mind the newly taken over woke party (SNP) losing seats to them, because whilst Sturgeon and Murrell remain at the helm, we’re going nowhere quick on the indy front.

      I’ll never forgive her for what she done, regardless of some good policies she achieved. When it really mattered as in independence she stabbed us in the front never mind the back b*tch.

    233. Daisy Walker says:

      @ A Person says:
      23 October, 2020 at 12:29 pm
      -Daisy Walker-

      Sounds a watertight case to me.’


      Well maybe, and maybe no. Ever noticed how the more straightforward a thing seems, the more convoluted the route you have to take to get there.

      It beings to look like the Internal Market Bill – which breaches international law, and the Withdrawal Agreement, might actually be the legal route, to opening up the TofU to international scrutiny. And all under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and under the European Court of Justice rules, regs and Judges…. which Boris signed up to.

      One can hope anyway.

    234. Craig Murray says:

      Alf Baird

      Doun-Hauden is an excellent read. You are absolutely right about the importance of cultural nationalism and the danger of sneering at it.

      Not least because our right to self-determination is dependent on our being a “people” in the terms of the UN charter, and a separate cultural identity has always been taken as a key determinant.

      I recommend all to get Alf’s book.

    235. CameronB Brodie says:

      Christian Schmidt
      I’m afraid biology matters and is simply not a matter of choice. No amount of imagination can make up for a lack of “lived experience”, conditioned though the “lived body”. Trans-men still live in what is essentially a male body that has been transformed through invasive medical treatment, so trans-men still lack the same lived experience, and “approach to value”, as natal women.


      Cosmetic surgery does not alter DNA or brain structure, and hormone therapy simply can not undo history. So here’s a wheen of bio-ethics in relation to sports.

    236. Republicofscotland says:

      I have to say Kenny MacAskill has went way way up in my estimations, I thought for years (as probably did many other folk) that hew was just another Sturgeon Murrell yes man, but apparently not.

      Anyway MacAskill, and few other SNP, MSP’s and MP’s are touting a boycott of paying the BBC’s licence fee, due to its bias actions and coverage in Scotland.

      Well Kenny its taken you Christ knows how long to realise what the majority of the Scottish population has already known for decades, still better late than never as they say.

    237. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….so trans-WOMEN still lack the same lived experience….

      Here’s a view on “Bioethics in the Language of the Law”.

    238. Margaret E says:

      I have just bought the Alf Baird’s book and the very first few pages brought alive for me certain aspects of Scottish culture which are almost being forgotten in the current struggle to save Scotland from being written out of history. Scottish humour and the great Scottish comedians – I had forgotten how very funny they are, with such a distinctive sense of humour.
      You can find whoever is your favourite on YouTube. It fairly takes your mind off the trans debate – but also makes you think how today’s situation would have raised gales of laughter in the past.
      Scottish songs, Scottish musicians, Scottish poetry, Scottish theatre, Scottish novels, Scottish historians, Scottish philosophers – and I haven’t started on our great scientists and innovators.
      I’d better stop before the tears come. Why are we allowing such wonderful traditions and history to be trampled on?

    239. Wee Chid says:

      Any SNP members here still waiting for their email to vote for their chosen candidate. We were told the ballot would be open at 12 noon and still no sign of the email at 14.14. Are the NEC picking the winners before we get our vote?

    240. Bailey says:

      Alf @ 1.52 – Yes, it’s almost as if the SNP hierarchy are too frightened to go down the treaty route. It’s the obvious way out. Something has happened in the last few years. It doesn’t surprise me that you didn’t get a reply from Joanna Cherry. They’re all in thrall to Westminster rules and it’s as if they’ve been “warned off” taking any other route. In my opinion, Joanna’s pieces in The National show she’s not the answer either.

    241. Stuart MacKay says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Bravo for mentioning brain structure. There’s no way a man can replicate being a woman simply with a few snips of the scissors. You’d need a brain transplant due.

      Credit where credit due – but don’t go and spoil it by overposting 😉

    242. J Galt says:

      Ian Brotherhood@1.23pm

      I saw your post yesterday and almost replied then that the truth these days is very much a minority interest so I’m not surprised you have had little reaction.

      The majority appear to think that “the authorities” have a monopoly of the “truth” and have nothing but rancour for those who even suggest that this might not be so.

      Any attempts to present evidence is more often than not met with the usual “tinfoil hat, David Icke lizard people” shite.

      From a source I trust I have heard of a transplant patient in a bad way who finally received notice of a suitable available organ, taken into hospital with the operation scheduled promptly, the patient of course had a “covid test”, this was found to be positive and the operation was cancelled and the patient died within days.

      No doubt the operating staff would have had the finest PPE available, but no, condemned to death on the basis of a wildly inaccurate test. That is State Murder.

      Killing hundreds and shortening the lives of thousands to “save” penny numbers, many, if not most, of whom are geriatric patients dying a natural death but with a positive covid test result.

    243. Joe says:

      @Margaret E
      ‘I’d better stop before the tears come. Why are we allowing such wonderful traditions and history to be trampled on?’

      Because the Scottish nationalist side of things are 100% focused on the political side of the argument and not watching what is happening to the other aspects of our nation.

      We can probably actually afford to continue to lose the political fight for a long time to come but we cannot afford to be hoodwinked into forgetting who we are, what that means and that we are a unique people with our own heritage.

      No matter how many twitter likes we may get for pretending it doesn’t matter. It does.

      If we look beyond our borders at the rest of the world we see nationalism is being made into a dirty word, and the people who promote it painted as extremists.

    244. Wee Chid says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      23 October, 2020 at 2:23 pm
      “CameronB Brodie

      Bravo for mentioning brain structure. There’s no way a man can replicate being a woman simply with a few snips of the scissors. You’d need a brain transplant due.”

      FFS Don’t give them any ideas – I’ve visions of a Stepford Wives type scenario. Washing the brains of real women and putting their memories into the brains of TW.

    245. CameronB Brodie says:

      Stuart MacKay
      My contribution can be separated into responding to a genuine desire for knowledge from WOS readers, refuting those punting mince, or defending my position from those who are simple hostile to education and ethical reason. Oh, and not forgetting those who imagine themselves as being ‘special’.


      The GRA amendments don’t only require a rejection of medical philosophy, they also require a rejection of medical law.

    246. Stuart MacKay says:

      Wee Chid

      As an alternative, perhaps we should ask the woo-men to go through the full experience of being a woman. That should deter all but the most determined.

    247. Breastplate says:

      Ian B,
      I’ve not been on for a while so missed your post yesterday.

      Today, I’ve watched a live feed of a funeral service of a friend and football 5 a side team mate, Stu.
      He was in his 30s, fit as a fiddle and delight to watch on the ball.
      He died of cancer last week leaving behind a wife and two young boys of 7 and 5 years old.
      He was told on the 6th of October that it was no longer treatable, he had only been diagnosed a few weeks before that.

      Now, we will never know if he was diagnosed earlier they may have been able to save him but one thing is for sure, many people are afraid of going to hospitals because they don’t want to burden the NHS.
      We were told by the government that the single most important action was to stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives, so no wonder people don’t want to trouble their doctor when they would have done so before this coronavirus nonsense.
      Yes I said the virus was a nonsense, how else would describe the hysteria and the sensationalism around a virus that kills, in the main, very old people.

      If this really is a terrible virus, perhaps somebody can explain to me and others why the average age of a Covid death is greater than the average lifespan?
      This fact alone should allow everyone to see that we have been and are currently being lied to by our governments.

      If I am wrong, I would like somebody to tell me why I am wrong.

    248. Daisy Walker says:

      OT – a quick question

      At the end of 2015 Westminster voted to bomb Syria – how many of the 59 Scottish MP’s voted for this?

      Can anyone remember?

      Many thanks.

    249. Wee Chid says:

      Stuart MacKay says:
      23 October, 2020 at 2:37 pm
      “Wee Chid

      As an alternative, perhaps we should ask the woo-men to go through the full experience of being a woman. That should deter all but the most determined.2

      Do they get to choose which woman? The pampered pet or the working class wife who gets a black eye for suggesting her husband might not drink all the pay packet. Or maybe the Muslim woman with no rights who gets stoned to death for being raped? When they say they “feel like a woman” I want to ask “Which woman?” Their idea of “womanhood” is very strange.

    250. Wee Chid says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      23 October, 2020 at 2:40 pm

      I think this is the division from Hansard

    251. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @J Galt (2.26) –

      Thanks for that – ‘state murder’ is bang-on.

      And that’s why so few dare speak openly about this.

      It’s not that many of us don’t know what’s going on – we can still trust our own senses and judgement even when being lied to from every side.

      But many simply cannot or will not accept that anything so monstrous could be happening. I read an Arthur Miller quote, many many years ago, and have never been able to locate it, so this is a paraphrase:

      ‘The idea that the state could actually harm its own citizens is so horrific that it must be internalised and denied.’

      Harold Pinter, in his last writings and Novel Prize acceptance speech, said something very similar. Craig Murray has been doing his best to highlight the very same horror vis-a-vis the treatment of Julian Assange. And, of course, most of us are aware of Orwell’s many memorable lines.

      Any artist worth his/her salt since the Enlightenment has tried to warn us about despotism, mind-control, ‘fascism’, call it whatever, it amounts to the same thing – if we surrender our own ability to reason and simply ‘trust’ someone else to do the thinking for us, we will be punished. And that’s what’s happening right now – to people belonging to a certain ‘class’, the State is their protector. We, therefore, are its enemies whether we like it or not.

    252. Republicofscotland says:

      Mike Russell the Constitution secretary, (does Scotland actually have a constitution? or is this more bollocks for the SNP), takes up half a page in the National today saying he’s quite sure we will have our vote on indy in 2021, at the same time Russell is sneaking out the back door of Holyrood.

      Yes Mike, we’ll have our say next year, oh and the Moon’s made out of cheese, Third Larnark are going to win the UEFA cup. Jesus, they must think we’re all mugs.

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate it is hard to trust a government that is hostile towards the human condition, so here’s a view of contemporary European bio-ethics, entitled “International Conference Healthcare as a Public Space: Social Integration and Social Diversity in the Context of Access to Healthcare in Europe”.

      “Health care, understood as a medical space, is an excellent example of a public space that models the processes of social integration and social equity. However, depending on its organisation, it can also influence the societal segregation of minority groups. The project Healthcare as a Public Space (official website: led by Professor Florian Steger (Ulm University, Germany) focuses on diversity in the general social context of health care, viewed as a public space, as well as in the specific context of medical institutions.

      The aim of this project, conducted through the collaboration of four national project groups, is to generate systematic and in-depth knowledge about how and to what degree the European norms and guidelines concerning diversity are implemented in national legal regulations in Germany, Poland, Slovenia, and Croatia, and how they are realised in clinical practice in these countries….”

    254. Robert Graham says:

      Open Question to everyone

      What was and exactly what is the point in any of us taking all the Time all the effort expended over the last 6 Years , What’s been achieved other than making sure MPs MSPs continued receiving good pay and probably good pensions,

      With exactly Zero Results if anything we are now in a worse position than we were on the 19th the day after the independence vote.

      Political games was not the Deal and wasn’t on the menu ,wasting time and countless millions pursuing a former First Minister and still wasting time making sure we the Public can’t find out what games our elected and English appointed Civil Servants have been filling their busy days with apart from working for their benefit, again their benefit not ours .

      I refuse to further financially contribute to anything the present SNP does ,all the useless waste producing literature ,flyers and all the other self promoting shit they send,members Contributions wasted on people who don’t need any more convincing,doesn’t anyone get it sending all this pointless stuff to existing members is just wasting money , it’s the ones who don’t support independence should be the aim of this expenditure .

      I have had it up to the back teeth with the SNP they have fooled everyone into believing they are even attempting to do what they are elected for , they have lost the way totally .I believed the comments from MPs we are not down in Westminster to settle in , fk me and I believed that pish

    255. Alf Baird says:

      Craig Murray @ 2.02/ Margaret E @ 2.14

      Thanks both, much appreciated. Hope you enjoy ‘Doun-Hauden’.

    256. Tinto Chiel says:

      UK Column has just done a wee piece on the figures similar to those Ian Brotherhood posted yesterday which some folk may find interesting, from five minutes in:

      UKC seems to be towards the libertarian end of the spectrum and is mainly anti-EU (I think) but it has done some good work on looking closely at the government’s own statistics on the virus and exposing the machinations of 77 Brigade.

    257. A Person says:

      -Ian Brotherhood-

      If you were to write a list of “lockdown enthusiasts” and compare it with a list of “vigorous promoters of the Iraq War and austerity” you would see a lot of correlation. I’m not able to say whether this is some kind of organised conspiracy or (more likely to my mind) dithering, unprincipled numpties (Matt Hancock, anyone?) who, perhaps understandably, over-reacted to the first wave, can’t admit they made a mistake, and are enjoying the power they’ve got.

    258. paul says:

      Robert Graham:

      No one likes being mugged off, but I think we have to act and think positively.

      Checking on the missing fundraiser I found this:

      The SNP won 35 of the 59 seats in Scotland in last week’s general election – 21 fewer than in 2015.

      The party’s share of the vote also fell from 50% to 37% as the Scottish Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats picked up seats across the country.

      Ms Sturgeon has said that her party’s plans for a second referendum were “undoubtedly” a factor in the election result

      “undoubtedly” is the giveaway.

      It’s troubling that the fact that project wheesht was at its apex did not seem to conflict with that conclusion in the minds of the leadership.

    259. Saffron Robe says:

      I agree with Daisy Walker at 12:22 pm. The Treaty of Union, like all treaties, is a shared agreement and is the basis for the United Kingdom. Take away that foundation (keystone) and all legislation which follows is invalidated. We return to the Scotland we were pre-treaty but without a monarch since the English monarch acts against Scotland’s sovereignty to England’s benefit and is therefore proven to be hostile to Scotland just as much as her parliament. Since Westminster (England) has violated the shared agreement, then it stands to reason (and law) that the treaty is no longer incumbent upon Scotland. In fact, because Westminster is acting illegally (ultra vires) then it would be criminal of us as a nation to continue to recognise the treaty.

      I think Nicola Sturgeon knows full well that Brexit breaks the Treaty of Union and is using the coronavirus restrictions to hide that fact and the Wokerati to distract from it.

    260. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breastplate (2.38), Tinto Chiel (3.25) and APerson (3.30) –

      Thanks all for responses.


    261. Alf Baird says:

      Bailey @ 2.17

      Actually, I recall I did get a reply from Joanna’s ‘Chief of Staff’ who sent me a link to a McCorkindale & McHarg article saying: ‘this (article) explains the (constitutional) position’ and its ‘not as straightforward as some might wish and reading it explains why the Scottish Government colleagues favour the route they have chosen’. i.e. why the SG claim that a S.30 referendum is the ONLY game in town!

      However, quite to the contrary, what the McCorkindale/McHarg article clearly states is that: “As a matter of law, a referendum is not a required part of the process of becoming independent”.

      If this is the legal reality, then why the need to depend on a referendum, or a S.30, at all? There is no need, more especially for a sovereign people/nation in a treaty-based alliance.

      I suspect even Joanna Cherry must now realise that the ‘Scottish Government’ is still basically a UK Government spending and ‘manned’ department and acts accordingly, i.e. it is actually intrinsically opposed to independence, or at best ‘neutral’, as stated during the Keatings case.

      Scotland’s SNP Westminster majority have nowhere to hide in my view, their only purpose is to end the union but they consistently refuse to do so.

    262. Republicofscotland says:

      Listening to Sturgeon at her daily Covid briefing today, she meekly mentioned that Westminster is to fund English businesses affected by the virus, but no such cash is coming to Scotland but she will fund our Scottish businesses, as best as she could.

      Then I recalled the Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham’s outcry over the lack of funding from Westminster, and what an outcry it was, he stood up for Greater Manchester, and spoke out. Sturgeon on the otherhand kept it low key, any Scottish FM worth their salt wanting independence would’ve mentioned that we need independence if only to be able to borrow to protect our people but not Sturgeon,she went on a long rambling speech about World War Two, that says it all really.

    263. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not paid to support public health, I do it as I value my biological integrity and human rights. What we are witnessing are the consequences of the “path dependency” of a neo-liberal approach to government, which has hollowed-out civic robustness and is hostile towards supporting good public health. Much of the carnage we are witnessing could have been avoided if the Tories had responded promptly and appropriately to the belated global health warning.

    264. yesbot says:

      Alf Baird says:

      I suspect even Joanna Cherry must now realise that the ‘Scottish Government’ is still basically a UK Government spending and ‘manned’ department and acts accordingly, i.e. it is actually intrinsically opposed to independence, or at best ‘neutral’, as stated during the Keatings case.
      Joanna Cherry is totally Establishment, she is a QC. She does not support alternative options, currency, free thinking etc

    265. Bailey says:

      Alf @ 3.54 – I voted for the Scottish Parliament in 1997 as I felt that Scotland had no voice. If the Scottish Government’s stance in the Keatings case (before they withdrew) was that they were neutral on the topic, I feel Scotland doesn’t have a voice now either with this SNP “leadership”.

      Once the UK Internal Market Bill kicks in next year and people see that the Scottish Parliament has been emasculated, I am hoping that events will overtake the gradualists and careerists.

    266. stonefree says:

      @ Abalha at 9:21 am
      Willie at 10:16 am
      @ Abalha at 11:23 am

      “told me on twitter there’s be no hustings, is that correct? I know the one slated for the 14/10 was cancelled at the last minute”
      What has been printed below is not quite right but reasonably close enough to be going on with

      The complaints are about Gibson and alleged indiscretions
      Firstly a complaint was lodged by a load of members in the CA about Gibson
      The complaints are about Gibson’s conduct and bullying (SNP matter)
      Next is complaint about the selection process That I would say will be a valid complaint BUT it might go back to the election of Patrica Gibson as a candidate 2016, where it gets interesting is PG brought it up, while everyone assumes it is current She blames one person for this.
      as on the forum I linked The older stuff was questioned about 4 years ago.(that was questionable at least)
      After PG was selected a Campaign started about the Arran Ferry, I believe that was possibly a sham K Gibsom and Yousaf seemed to be chums and Yousaf was in charge of the Ferry
      Nobody can convince me it was not fake, For the simple reason money was NEVER mentioned
      Going back to the lodged complaint, It has been reported that Daily Record/Sunday Mail that K Gibson had been paying staff to canvas for elections themselves being candidates, as what appears to be circumventing the rules (again said in 2017)
      There should be in the complaint regarding at least one candidate’s address and possible false information being recorded
      There should be a complaint about accommodation
      When ask about Gibson and women a “heid SNP bummer” replied ” Not Again”
      There were incidents relating to the Dalry branch in 2015 2017 and It appears again
      And Three women are within the complaint lodged as said by the Newspapers mentioned, I believe the Herald did likewise a day later
      The 2017 council elections I am convinced were fixed in regards to who was in and who was out.
      I have reservations about the Gibson’s action in regard to bullying If any did occur, and SNP members who are I believe are now against Gibson, yet said nothing at the time
      A slight aside, Ken and Pat seeing them together, is best described as strange and weird
      Pat when defending Ken on Facebook, made no reference any other complaints, as I said blamed one person
      She also said that the Branch memberships within the constituency had increased ,That is not true.
      It’s harder to get the minutes as sources have all left

    267. Bailey says:

      Alf @ 3.54 – If the Section 30 only stance is partly based on a misinterpretation of the McCorkindale & McHarg article, it says it all really. The “advice” the SNP are taking is woeful.

    268. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I have raised this possibility on these threads at least twice before. After reading the post by Saffron Robe @ 3.36pm I feel it is worth raising again.

      In that post, SR wrote: “the English monarch acts against Scotland’s sovereignty to England’s benefit and is therefore proven to be hostile to Scotland just as much as her parliament.”

      The said “English Monarch” is also, we must never forget: “Queen of Scots.” She may rule England via “the Divine Right of Kings” and she may have delegated that sovereignty to Parliament, but, in Scotland, THE PEOPLE ARE SOVEREIGN.

      If she does anything to hard the interests of the Scottish People, they have the power to remove her.

      So, why hasn’t the First Minister been down to Buckingham Palace, or up at Balmoral, reminding HM of this and getting her telt – “The People of Scotland, who in this instance are your bosses, voted to remain in the EU, but, you allowed your Westminster government to drag us out of it. This is against the interests of Scotland, which you are ploedged to uphold, so get it sorted – or we will sack you and find a King or Queen who will do what we want.”

      Nothing should be ruled-out in the fight for Independence, maybe getting the Queen and the Palace involved is a means of breaking the deadlock and moving-on the Independence battle.

      The excrament would really collide with the air agitator if a bill was put before Holyrood calling for the sacking of the Queen, for acting against the interests of the Scottish People. Such a bill would, I am certain, concentrate minds fully in both Holyrood and London.

    269. Andy Ellis says:


      Surely there is currently no Queen of Scots, only a Queen of the United Kingdom?

      What happens when we reclaim our independence is up to us: the house of Windsor can continue to provide the head of state if that’s what the people want. Prior to #indyref1 I recall only 39% said the wanted the monarchy scrapped.

      Perhaps the figure would be different now, but sadly I wouldn’t assume republicans are in the majority yet!

    270. Republicofscotland says:

      Well Sturgeon bottled it on protecting our flora and fauna, as our majestic raptors are murdered on a daily basis, mountain hares, ravens and beavers are also slaughtered and all manner of creatures, such as stoat,s weasels, moles and just about any creature that poses a threat to grouse are exterminated.

      Instead of holding the chinless lairds to account on these and other matters Sturgeon has done the opposite and embraced one of their own in Benny Higgins, who told Sturgeon that Scotland’s economy faces a long hard uphill struggle after Covid, hence Sturgeon’s the plebs can go and f*ck themselves when they ask why haven’t I named a date for a Scottish independence referendum.

      Now we find out that Sturgeon has sold out our renewables sector by failing to invest in it claiming they can’t invest over a certain amount due to strict rules about energy being a reserved matter, thought the Greens Mark Ruskell has shown that there’s a way to save the 500+ plus jobs that will be lost if Sturgeon doesn’t act. A decade ago the SNP promised Scotland would be the saudi Arabia of renewable energy with around 30’000 jobs in Scotland, today the last 500+ jobs are about to be lost and with it another Sturgeon promise bites the the dust.

    271. ahundredthidiot says:

      Get your booze in now, for Christmas.

      My crystal ball says 6 week total booze ban from mid November – everywhere.

    272. twathater says:

      @ ABALHA 6.37am Thank you for the Cherry piece, but you and she have just DESTROYED my dreams and aspirations of Scotland becoming independent. Her words and ambitions are just a repeat of Sturgeon’s, give US another mandate and we will still do fuckall, just more can kicking

      Breeks I usually ALWAYS agree with your posts but on this occasion I think your hope of Cherry being our saviour is misplaced, her office response to Alf Baird’s enquiry indicates she also believes in the sovereignty of WM and is too frightened to take up the challenge against it

      Bailey, Alf , Daisy , Saffron ,Breeks , Lorna C and anyone else who believes in Scots sovereignty and the LIE of equality in the union, it looks like we have elected in the SNP the modern version of the infamous PARCEL OF ROGUES where they are shite scared to challenge WM, the Union, or ratify the sovereignty of Scots,

      Instead they UTTER MEANINGLESS WORDS, to divert from their cowardice, words CANNOT describe the contempt I hold for these ("Tractor" - Ed)s, vote for them to suffer more indignity and failed promises, THEY CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF, AND FUCK OFF AGAIN

    273. Lorna Campbell says:

      Mike Cassidy: I think you are right. For a goodly number of trans women, it is, I believe, all about who is in the spaces and who has the rights. In debates with trans supporters, I have put forward compromises or a different way of interpreting the legislation, but they never bite; they just get angrier and angrier; then they accuse you of bigotry and hatefulness and never answer a single question put to them. They remind me of the most intransigent Unionists.

      I have come to the conclusion that, for many, it is access to women and girls that is the thing. It may be that they just want to be accepted, but why not say so? Then you have people like the chap/chapess at Credit Suisse who entered the women’s business prize but not the men’s, claiming that he had been a woman on the day he won it or entered the competition. And those trans women athletes in the States who kept on moving into a particular, very talented girl’s sports events.

      They entered the track events and she was forced out because she had no hope of winning against them. Then she moved to field events and one of them moved into that, too, forcing her out, again. She eventually gained the sports scholarship to university she wanted, but it was not the one she had worked towards for years. Then we have the weightlifter who towers above the women competitors and is twice their size, the rugby players who tackle girls…

      They keep telling us that this will not affect women’s rights, but they are already doing so, even before the bloody legislation is passed. Top Shop made their changing rooms unisex because a trans woman complained. Isn’t it odd that it is never trans men who muscle in or complain? Could it be envy and jealousy? Deep-seated hatred and misogyny? Sexual opportunity? I must admit that I just don’t get what they want from women except, it would seem, to eliminate us from everything. I am not including genuine trans women who don’t want to encroach on women’s spaces and rights and who don’t insist they are women, but see themselves as trans women, even though they might not go around proclaiming it from the rafters.

      The thing I would say is that, having studied the European Human Rights Commission legislation on trans rights is that it shows a bewildering lack of sensitivity or even awareness, really, of the difficulties that it would place in the way of natal women. It is left up to individual countries to make their own accommodations. Most have not gone for the full-fat variety that we have gone for, but, even so, the lack of concern for women over the overwhelming concern for trans people is astounding and genuinely anti female human rights from a human rights organization. You women will just have to learn to accommodate these men is basically the message.

    274. cirsium says:

      @Ian Brotherhood, 1.23

      Thanks for that post. “This is about control and testing how easy it is to control and lockdown populations whilst removing their rights. Call it agenda 21 if you like”.

      Couldn’t agree more. The National Records of Scotland makes clear “the number of deaths from all causes have returned to average levels and the weekly counts of deaths involving COVID-19 are low, ” This indicates that the epidemic is over. If SARS-CoV-2 is now endemic, it will join the other four coronaviruses which circulate in the winter.

      Ms Sturgeon stated that restrictions would still be needed until a vaccine for the virus was developed. Is Ms Sturgeon proposing to suspend civil rights indefinitely as it takes years to develop a safe vaccine? Who is advising Ms Sturgeon?

      Is it not time to start making using of the array of antiviral pharmaceuticals?
      Professor Harvey Risch-Newsweek article “The key to defeating Covid already exists: we need to start using it
      Dr Peter McCullough, American Journal of Medicine

      Is it not time Ms Sturgeon listened to Professor Mark Woolhouse, Chair of Infectious Disease Epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh ? “We must not allow the cure to become worse than the disease. That long term strategy has to be a risk-based approach to living with Covid-19. This is a very unpleasant virus but, for the great majority of people, not nearly so unpleasant that we should contemplate shutting down society to deal with it.”

    275. Lorna Campbell says:

      Cameron B Brodie: if a trans woman died and her skeleton was discovered a hundred or few hundred years from now, it would be classed as a male skeleton. Even after surgery and hormone treatment, samples taken from a trans woman would show up male. Same the other way round for trans men. Denial of science is madness, and those who support the deniers are even madder.

    276. Colin Alexander says:

      Re Treaty of Union, I was talking to Aileen McHarg about whether Scotland pre-union was monist or dualist.

      A monist state is like the USA, which means when the President signs a treaty it becomes law.

      To her credit, she was humble and admitted she didn’t know if Scotland (pre-union) was monist or dualist.

      In the UK, a Treaty signed by Bojo and ratified by Parliament, still does not become law until Parliament incorporates it into law by an Act of Parliament.

      I suppose a most recent example is the EU / UK withdrawal treaty so explains what I am talking about. From Wikipedia:

      “The European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that makes legal provision for ratifying the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement and incorporating it into the domestic law of the United Kingdom”.

      From what I’ve read, it seems the Treaty of Union became law in Scotland when ratified by the Parliament of Scotland and given Royal Assent. The terms of the treaty were repeated in the Act ratifying the Treaty. But the Act did NOT incorporate the Treaty.

      So what?

    277. Hatuey says:

      Craig Murray: “Not least because our right to self-determination is dependent on our being a “people” in the terms of the UN charter, and a separate cultural identity has always been taken as a key determinant.”

      There’s no doubt anywhere that Scotland is a country in its own right, albeit one that’s currently tied to a union.

      You are giving an answer to a question that nobody to my knowledge has ever asked – or raising objections to a point that nobody ever made. And by doing so you are raising doubts that otherwise wouldn’t exist.

      I’ve never heard anyone suggest that Scotland isn’t a country or that it ceased to exist in 1707. Not even the crackpots on the Unionist fringes argue that, as far as I’m aware.

      Culture, if it exists, ought to be able to exist without anyone make a song and dance of it.

      I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea that I want independence because of some cultural difference between us and others, or that I should subscribe to some definition of culture cooked up in the kitchens of middle class Scotland.

      If our independence ever came to hinge on stuff like that, we would be in deep trouble. But it doesn’t.

    278. Colin Alexander says:

      The answer is:

      The law that brought Scotland into Union with England was by the Treaty itself.

      The international treaty between Scotland and England.

      The Union is not domestic legislation by the Parliament of Scotland, Parliament of England or Parliament of UK; it is the international Treaty agreed by Scotland and England.

      The international treaty is how GB was created. So, by resiling that international Treaty is how Scotland should dissolve the UK Union.

    279. Elmac says:

      Just a reminder. As matters stand the SNP are a dead duck as far as independence is concerned but they are still ruling the roost. There seems no prospect of the clear out needed of the Sturgeon cabal to return the party to its core objective. The only option is the rise of an alternative party to take the yes movement forward. There are a few contenders around but we don’t need splinters, we need them to coalesce into one party we can identify with. Even so the cause of independence will have been put back many years which is Sturgeon’s legacy.

      I think it is time to give up any residual hope that Sturgeon’s SNP will ever change its spots. We must bite the bullet now. All of us need to wake up to what is going on and tell them to stuff their membership and cut off all funding NOW. No money will translate into no Sturgeon, no Murrell, and no Wokes, but that will probably be too late which is why we need an alternative party to be up and running before the next elections.

    280. Dan says:

      Average life expectancy in Scotland

      Male – 77.1 years
      Female – 81.1 years

      Average age of covid related death in Scotland

      Male – 79 years
      Female – 84 years

    281. Liz says:

      Twitter is ano go area for anyone who disagrees with the current Covid stategy.

      It’s very worrying how easily people will give up their freedoms despite evidence to the contrary.

      Anyone who even tries to disagree is shot down in flames.
      This so called circuit break was meant to improve the sutuation but the fact they are discussing Christmas restrictions means they know it will not work.

    282. Abalha says:

      Marco Biagi hits back at Stewart McDonald MP, tweets now deleted

      AND Alyn Smith up to dirty tricks in Stirling

    283. Abalha says:

      In reply to Stonefree at 422pm

      Thanks for that, it just all sounds so bloody horendous, petty, low level. Scotland deserves better representation.

      And in reply to twathater at 526pm Aye it is all pretty shit.

    284. Effijy says:

      Listening to Sturgeon at her daily Covid briefing today, she meekly mentioned that Westminster is to fund English businesses affected by the virus, but no such cash is coming to Scotland but she will fund our Scottish businesses, as best as she could.

      I really cannot believe this statement has not created hell in all parliaments?
      SNP pathetic to accept this but where is so called Scottish Labour or Lib Dem’s?
      Are they happy to see Scots being 2nd class citizens- again?

      Scottish Covid figures late last week as our labs were snowed under with English Tests.

      Westminster has informed English PPE manufacturers not to sell to Scotland’s NHS.

      The Internal Market total power grab.

      Being dragged out of the EU by England’s Brexit.

      Special EU access to N Ireland but not Scotland.

      Why are SNP not screening about this and causing disruption to everything and anything that hinders Westminster?


    285. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Liz –

      Aye, you’re right about the Twitter.

      But look at the difference here – a few months ago, anyone ‘voicing’ doubt about ‘the science’ and/or govt strategy was shot down within minutes, often in very personal, angry terms.


      A lot of folk are waking up. It’s just a shame that none of them happen to be elected representatives who can express general misgivings and evidence-based fears in public forums.

      Only small and independent business have, so far, dared challenged the official narrative. To nick one of Tinto Chiel’s favoured Orwellisms…

      ‘If there was hope, it must lie in the publicans…’

    286. susanXX says:

      Well said Lorna Campbell@5:53pm. It IS about colonizing female spaces.

    287. John H. says:

      To anyone confused about the queen’s status in Scotland. After that lavish crowning ceremony in Westminster abbey on 2nd of June 1953,she came quietly to Edinburgh to be crowned Queen of Scots on 24th June..

      So she is Queen of Scotland and England separately. She wears two crowns. Therefore, surely, she must be Queen Elizabeth 1st of Scotland, though we are told differently.

      24 June 1953
      On 24 June 1953, following her coronation at Westminster Abbey, the crown was carried before Queen Elizabeth II in a procession from the Palace of Holyroodhouse to the High Kirk of St Giles, Edinburgh, where the Honours of Scotland, including the crown, were presented to The Queen during a National Service of …

      Crown of Scotland – Wikipedia › wiki › Crown_of_Scotland

    288. Republicofscotland says:

      “Effijy says:
      23 October, 2020 at 6:47 pm
      Listening to Sturgeon at her daily Covid briefing today, she meekly mentioned that Westminster is to fund English businesses affected by the virus, but no such cash is coming to Scotland but she will fund our Scottish businesses, as best as she could.”


      I said as much at 4.01pm.

      Sturgeon should’ve been shouting this out from the rooftops, as another good reason for independence, but she didn’t.

    289. Ottomanboi says:

      LIZ 6:34pm
      Viruses don’t pay attention to rules, masks, physical distancing, sanitizers or lockdowns. They infect people, people get sick and the majority recover. That’s nature’s way.
      Vaccine dealers and their pushers would have you believe otherwise. It’s a killer, it’s a plague, it’s a great $$$$$$$$$$$$ earner.

    290. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B. 6.48: ‘If there was hope, it must lie in the publicans…’

      I fear that argument is based on licensed premises (copyright, Flann O’Brien, 1939) 🙂 .

      Whistling in the dark, I must admit just now. When I hear the Digital Dentist do his Scrooge impression re. Christmas in spite of recent public health statistics, I get really annoyed.

      We’ve had lockdown, but then opened the schools (to let folk go to work) and yoonis and so positive tests (not “cases”) went up. So what happens when restrictions are eased? Take a guess.
      So what happens after that? More restrictions ad infinitum? This may suit the SG: no real challenges at conference or unseemly protests by the unwashed proles about a real independence campaign and it also suits Johnson: no angry anti-Brexit demonstrations and he can further chip away at people’s human rights under the Coronavirus Act (and worse).

      Looks like the infection is endemic and so the quicker we acceptthat and that the vulnerable (i.e. the aged) need to be protected and the rest should try to get on with their lives the better, as many highly-qualified medical professionals have already suggested, as in the Great Barrington Declaration.

      I’m reading Alf Baird’s “Doun-Hauden” just now and the most worrying thing so far for me is the demographic situation re. immigration and emigration. We don’t really have a lot of time to address this situation, which makes the SG’s decision to look the other way regarding withdrawing from the Union for multiple breaches (like dragging us out because of Brexit, which really was our Sovereignty Gold Card gift) and holding a confirmatory referendum all the more puzzling, when all we have at the moment is parking the Indy Bus up a Section 30 dead-end and singing “Kumbaya” in a suitably inclusive, supportive, rainbow environment.

      Pissed off, moi? You betcha.

    291. Daisy Walker says:

      Thanks for the Hansard link – it appears it was 57 out of 59 Scottish MP’s who voted against the bombing of Syria.

      Re Covid, I’ve been keeping an open mind, and reading bits and pieces of info about it.

      With it being a new virus, I thought, on balance of probability ‘better safe than sorry’.

      I also thought that the way statistics were being measured differently, from all over the world, it would be almost impossible to evidence it one way or another. And that if lockdown worked… it would be the victim of its own success.

      This virus differs from the one I feared it might be, in that no-one in my street, no-one in my household, no-one from my work place, no-one from my family – has been killed or near killed by it, or had their families decimated by it – even second wave.

      For which I am extremely grateful. But I do not doubt that if it had turned out to be as contagious and deadly as it was feared, we would all have suffered bereavements.

      I have no issue with taking precautions, wearing face masks.

      But I do have issue with trials not being publicly heard, or witnesses cross examined, or the public become used to not having the full public and emergency services they pay for and are used to.

      Police, Health, Council, Education.

      We were asked to take it on the chin, in order to flatten the curve and Save our NHS.

      It now appears clear that our NHS could have coped, more than coped, and that an economy decimated by a no Deal Brexit, on top of Covid depression will not survive.

      I do not see the same level of fear, or of support amongst the public for new lockdown. They see the inconsistencies in policy and the damage it is doing to society.

      I just wonder – while all this is going on, how will we ‘cope’ with covid, if/when Brexit goes through and we no longer have a public health service to ‘save’.

      I am in no doubt that the disaster capitalists seeing all this, are making the absolute most of it to maximise their profits at our expense.

      Nicola needs a new song – Covid has run out of steam for her.

    292. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey @ 6.10

      The psychologist Frantz Fanon (1967) gives us the following post-colonial perspective (among many others) on the critical importance of culture vis-a-vis national liberation:

      “The first necessity is the re-establishment of the nation in order to give life to national culture…..the conscious and organized undertaking by a colonial people to re-establish the sovereignty of that nation constitutes the most complete and obvious cultural manifestation that exists. If culture is the expression of national consciousness…it is the national consciousness which is the most elaborate form of culture. National consciousness, which is not nationalism, is the only thing that will give us an international dimension….it is national liberation which leads the nation to play its part on the stage of history. It is at the heart of national consciousness that international consciousness lives and grows. And from this two-fold emerging is ultimately the source of all culture.”

    293. Hatuey says:

      Stewart McDonald, on a public forum like twitter, calling a fellow SNP politician “devious and dishonest” really underlines how far standards have fallen under Sturgeon.

      They must be worried about Angus’s prospects.

      I’ve noticed Nicola in her daily briefings over the last 2 weeks has devoted considerable time to telling us all how honest and up front she is… difficult as it may be, she’s just so devoted to the truth.

      It’s almost as if she knows her personal honesty and integrity is going to be a big issue in the coming weeks.

      Is this why they want Angus in place? Someone THEY can trust if Nicola has to go?

    294. CameronB Brodie says:

      Lorna Campbell
      I think you are referring to “medical anthropology”, which while uncovering the fluidity of human characteristics, is pretty much essential to “Engaging with the Right to Health: Ethnographic Explorations of the Right to Health in Practice”.

      Not for those who support the GRA amendments though, which is so poorly drafted as to conflate the biological with the psychological, and so destroy any potential for justice in Scotland. This is no mistake, as in order for this to come about, the civil service had to be ordered to stop following a gender-critical approach to law and public policy. ;(

    295. Andy Ellis says:

      @John H

      The wikipedia page says the last monarch to be crowned in Scotland was Charles II. Elizabeth II wasn’t crowned Queen of Scots.

    296. Seoras Liath says:

      John H. says – 23 October 20.20 @ 7.07pm

      24 June 1953
      “On 24 June 1953, following her coronation at Westminster Abbey, the crown was carried before Queen Elizabeth II in a procession from the Palace of Holyroodhouse to the High Kirk of St Giles, Edinburgh, where the Honours of Scotland, including the crown, were presented to The Queen during a National Service of …”

      It’s my understanding, and can be seen on film of the time, that she was not, in fact, crowned and was not even allowed to touch the Scottish crown or jewels.

    297. Xaracen says:

      “So she is Queen of Scotland and England separately. She wears two crowns. Therefore, surely, she must be Queen Elizabeth 1st of Scotland, though we are told differently.”

      That would be Queen Elizabeth 1st of Scots.

      However, she wasn’t crowned as such on the 24th, the crown was never placed on her head, she didn’t even touch it, it was just shown to her on a cushion. That was not a coronation, so she is not Queen Elizabeth 1st or 2nd of either Scots or Scotland, and therefore does not nor is entitled to wear both crowns until a proper Scots coronation is performed. I don’t think the 24th was even a public ceremony but was performed privately. God forbid that Scotland gets to have a coronation. Maybe they were scared we’d boycott it.

    298. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ottomanboi –

      I know it’s not ‘nice’ but you get to an age where something about the way people speak and behave really makes an impression you can’t afford to ignore because you’ve seen it before and you were hurt – that’s why you remember.

      I don’t trust Jason Leitch.


      I’ve said it.

      I don’t like the way he chops and changes his ‘advice’ from one day to the next depending on whatever crib sheet he’s been handed that morning.

      I don’t like the ‘matey’ persona he adopts when dealing with people who are clearly hosting him on sufferance (e.g. Stuart Cosgrove and Tam Cowan on Off The Ball).

      But most of all, I dislike and mistrust the man because I don’t believe that he believes what he’s saying. If he was banging on about something trivial, gardening or cooking or whatever, fair enough, he could safely be ignored. But he’s not – if his own accounts of the decision-making process are to be believed then he is actively helping to devise and impose decisions on all of us which have already caused immeasurable damage to families and communities nationwide.

      Shame on him and everyone who takes his every word as gospel – this is the 21st century FFS, and we’re supposed to be ‘educated’ people. That we’ve allowed ourselves to become cowed by such a charlatan is mortifying enough, but the prospect of enduring his blustering pish for yet more months is simply intolerable.

    299. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Lorna Campbell ‘For a goodly number of trans women, it is, I believe, all about who is in the spaces and who has the rights. In debates with trans supporters, I have put forward compromises or a different way of interpreting the legislation, but they never bite; they just get angrier and angrier; then they accuse you of bigotry and hatefulness and never answer a single question put to them. They remind me of the most intransigent Unionists.

      I have come to the conclusion that, for many, it is access to women and girls that is the thing’

      I agree with you, and with your concerns, I also wonder if part of the condition is that they are also setting themselves up for a fall in a manner of speaking.

      For example, if you are determined that black means/is white – that is your belief system, so be it, but if you determine that your personal happiness depends on all the people in society also believing that black is white…. then that is an unachievable goal, and if it makes you unhappy, it ‘becomes’ everyone else’s fault.

      I have no issue with persons who carryout the full Transgender re-allignment as the law prescribes today, but one aspect that the proposed changes is to ‘outlaw’ ‘dead naming’ a person with regards their ‘previous’ sex. While that is clearly dangerous for the public, in potential cases of sex offenders, self identifying, and hiding their pre convictions. On an holistic level, if a person lives the first 35 years of their life as a male, and then has the sex change operation…. they’ve still had 35 years on the planet, living and being treated as a man. I cannot see how it is an honest or happy state of affairs for them to be encouraged or enabled to wipe that from the record, regardless of how they proceed from this point on.

      Surely a big part of personal happiness/peace comes from learning to accept yourself as you are, rather than who you wish you were.

      Anyway, just a few thoughts.

    300. Dan says:

      Scotland Welcomes The Queen (old footage from Pathé 9 mins)

    301. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Tinto Chiel

      Brexits coming my lord Kumbya
      Brexits coming my lord Kumbya
      No Deals coming my lord Kumbya
      No deal Kumbya

    302. Tartanpigsy says:

      @IanB, I hear ya, was piled onto on Facebook for suggesting similar

    303. Mist001 says:

      Mrs Murrell is on public record as telling the Scottish people that

      ‘Even if you have tested negative for the virus and you are not showing any symptoms, that doesn’t mean that you don’t have it’.

      It’s only a matter of time before Jason Leitch comes out with similar nonsense.

      These people complained VERY LOUDLY about ‘Project Fear’ but they’re not adverse to using the same tactics when it suits them.

      Currently, the schools are on holiday so the numbers will come down and various ‘tiers’ will be downgraded.

      When the schools go back, the numbers will rise again and you’re looking at lockdown over Christmas.

      These idiots should fucking well know that but they give every impression that they don’t. Instead, they maintain that the schools are safe.

      They’re taking EVERYONE for a ride.

    304. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Scottish government’s response to covid-19 is ultimately determined by HMG, which is now openly hostile towards international law (see Brexit). So their public messaging is bound to sound a bit hollow. Their approach to the GRA amendments raise serious concerns though, as to the coherence of their appreciation and approach to how “The right to health must guide responses to COVID-19.”

      “Human rights scrutiny in the COVID-19 pandemic has largely focused on limitations of individual freedoms to protect public health, yet it is essential to look at the broader relevance of realising human rights to promote public health in the COVID-19 response.”

    305. Hatuey says:

      I’m sorry, Alf, but I really don’t think there’s much that Fanon says there (or anywhere else) that’s relevant to the quite peculiar position Scotland is in. This isn’t Algeria.

      It is not straightforwardly the case that Scotland is a colony of England. The idea doesn’t offend me, and it might be useful in some respects to discuss Scotland in colonial terms, but it isn’t exactly accurate, as you know.

      Curiously, one of the big reasons that it isn’t accurate to define us as a colony is down to culture.

      In Glasgow there’s a very tribal pro-Unionist orange culture. How does that fit in with your Scottish culture? Are you going to say that’s down to the Union? If so, how? I don’t know anywhere in England that has anything like that.

      A lot of Scottish people were very pro-Union at one time. They embraced the idea of Britishness and British culture. I don’t need to explain that because I think culture is a bunch of divisive crap anyway, but you might want to try.

      We’ve touched on an important characteristic of culture here though. Without wings provided by various organisations and state sponsors, it wouldn’t get off the ground let alone fly. Again, that’s fine by me and it’s for you to explain why we need to artificially hoist it up.

      I’m still not convinced we can define Scottish culture though. What is it? Presumably it’s something that’s common to us all or most of us, something to do with music, humour, poetry, etc. It’s all a bit vague. Does it include Presbyterianism?

      After you have defined it, and alienated about half the country in the process, then I’d be happy to discuss its usefulness in helping us achieve independence. If Fanon was alive today, I think he’d be on my side in this debate.

    306. robertknight says:

      Xaracen @ 8:11

      Last monarch to have the Crown of Scotland placed on their head was Charles II in 1651.

      The convention adopted in the 1950s is that whatever the name of the monarch, the higher of any regal numeral, (should a pre-1707 regal name apply), shall be used: hence Elizabeth II as opposed to Elizabeth I. (This convention has consistently favoured the English style of numbering as there have been no Pre-1707 Scotland-only regal names of monarchs since the Union with England, nor will there be anytime soon – not a James or Robert or David to be seen!).

    307. John H. says:


      Dan. Ok, comparatively quietly. 🙂

      I did mean to say Queen of Scots.I’ve been brainwashed 🙂

    308. Stan Broadwood says:


      Good to see you back LoL.

      How was your wee stint in Solitary confinement???

      Or were you just having a short break on Millport.

      I bet you can’t wait to blast your thoughts all over the pages of Wings.

      All good writers get that pent-up feeling,,, they just have to write, like yourself Cam.

      On you go, you have a blank canvas to work with.

      Fill your Boots.

    309. Andy Ellis says:

      O/T but do any SNP folk know when the results of the constituency votes will come in?

    310. robertknight says:

      John H @ 8:34

      Not so fast…

      “In the late Middle Ages the styles “rex Scottorum” (“king of the Scots”) and “rex Scotiae” (“king of Scotland”) were used interchangeably.” (Wikipedia)

    311. stonefree says:

      @ Saffron Robe at 3:36 pm
      Agree but make it simpler
      ” The Treaty of Union, like all treaties, is a shared agreement and is the basis for the United Kingdom.”
      It is only a contract broken by the English, It is their breach , as such it is the Scots right to rescind the contract,
      History and all the rest are a hindrance
      It’s valid thought

    312. Andy Ellis says:


      I think Spameron has been slapped down by “da management” sufficiently to give us all a modicum of relief, at least WRT volume, if not frequency. Like most bad ideas however he is sadly very difficult to get rid of altogether.

    313. SOG says:

      Someone earlier quoted the Great Barrington Declaration. The following is a criticism of it, in case people want an alternative viewpoint.

    314. mike cassidy says:

      For those getting their heads round the SNP top-level machinations

      A lot of this will ring the proverbial bell

      The Big Lie

      The Women’s Equality Party wasn’t captured by gender ideology – it was founded on gender ideology

    315. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m pretty sure Prof. Baird can fight his own battles, though it does get my spidey senses tingling when the unique, though highly ‘modified’, nature of Scottish culture is doubted. It’s almost as if some wish to deny Scots the opportunity to express their bio-neurological individuality, which is shaped through landscape and sound, as much as it is by literature and law. To do so rejects “A Sociocultural Exploration of Epistemological Beliefs”, and the potential for Scotland to make its’ own unique contribute to the eternal evolution of the Natural law. WHICH WOULD BE A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

    316. stonefree says:

      Twitter links?
      I used to be able to see them , now all I get is “something is wrong”
      I do see one which are not political

    317. Dan says:

      Ya ken how ra queen was telling all us Scots to vote carefully in the 2014 indyref… Did she ever have anything to say pre or post “Brexit” vote?

      Kinda expected oor oan queen o’ Scots to step up and sort oot some of the shite we’re havin to deal with noo.
      I mean that’s why we pay her the big bucks aye?

    318. Dan says:

      @ stonefree

      I’ve been getting that problem aswell recently. If you refresh the page the tweets will show.

    319. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Daisy Walker 8.21: hee, hee! And I’ve brought my Italian fennel sausages for the sausage sizzle anaw anaw…

      Thanks for all your efforts recently with the Sequence of Events/Charge Sheet and your thoughts at 8.16.

      We just need a wee kid to point to the Emperor and start to laugh, really.

      Cracks in the wall, etc.

    320. Breastplate says:

      People should always be entitled to access different opinions. I genuinely welcome alternative viewpoints as should we all but that hasn’t happened around SARS CoV2.
      Censorship has surrounded it. That we were and are being denied access to information is entirely sinister.

    321. Grey gull says:

      Ian brotherhood @ 8.13. What you’ve said. At first I thought he sounded ok. But now not believing anything. The tests are a “a bit rubbish” Aye, ur they?

    322. Breastplate says:

      I’ve just read the link you put up, could you give me your opinion on it please?

    323. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breastplate, TC et al –

      Hear hear.

      Maybe it’s just delusion on my part, or the Scrumpy kicking in, but this thread has really cheered me up – I don’t detect the angry denial of a few months ago.

      Human beings really are amazing creatures. Have been thinking about this a lot recently. I don’t suppose we can ever know whether or not it’s true that only we, as a species, have an awareness of our mortality.

      FFS, that’s properly heavy stuff!

      But add to that the awareness of every generation for the past 75 years, that we are capable of obliterating ourselves, possibly as the result of an honest or daft mistake? How much worse does that make the existential burden?

      I (literally) cannot imagine what it’s like not to have that fear at the very root of my consciousness. (Few of us can, unless we’re in our eighties and have tip-top memories.) You would imagine that such awareness would be intolerable, but we are still here and, for the most part, manage to enjoy ‘life’ every bit as much as humans did pre-1945.

      Or do we?

      I really don’t know!

      But put it this way – if ordinary folk like me can sniff something very peculiar about this current ‘crisis’, it doesn’t have much chance of delivering for the architects. The ‘Big Lie’, on this occasion, doesn’t appear to be working. They’ve tried terrifying us with all manner of hobgoblins and spectres for decades, centuries. And many of us succumb. But plenty don’t, and we keep going. And this current scam feels cheap, almost laughable – as Tinto said earlier, we just need the one wee soul to start pointing at the big baldy arse under the scary mask, that’ll be it, Game Over.

      Long time since I posted a YT video here, but this one is a wee example of why, for me, life is still worth living, when you find something fresh and beautiful, watching real artists doing what humans do best i.e. being truthful, and giving, and joyful.

      Van Morrison, Live in Montreux –

    324. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I’ll put it down to the Scrumpy, if you think my efforts to promote public health ethics are “angry denial”. Which would be to deny I’ve been supporting the potential for “Using a Public Health Ethics Framework to Unpick Discrimination in COVID-19 Responses”.

    325. willie says:

      Ah Republic of Scotland you mention Scotland as being tiuted as the Saudi Arabia of Renewable Wind Energy.

      Well, like oil what benefit are we getting out if it. Industrally, all the jacket work, or the turbine work, it all goes abroad whilst the old song is Methil no more, Ardesier no more,

      And the huge estates all over Scotland owned by very rich peoples off shore companies around the world. Well that’s another tickle as Tsar Nicola appoint landed gentry factor Benny Higgins to the inner economic sanctum.

      Frankly, on present form there is little or no reason to vote SNP.

      Truly more Tory than the Tories. Ask yourself Ask yourself what has Nicola’s government achieved what has it delivered.

      Brexit reversal, any Tory social policy reversal, the bringing of any offshored jobs back home, the betterment of our natural environment.

      No, but husband Peter gets remuneration of circa £200k, the media team get plenty of well paid jobs for the Fhoys, and nothing, and I men nothing changes.

      One more mandate, just one more mandate. And i’ll have a Parly equiped with Wokes to deliver us another decade of devolution until the time is right. ( Remember that – the time is not right – brexit, then the economy but that was before Covid broke up the party)

      Yes Republic of Scotland – what’s the deal voting SNP.Or am I missing something like a pair of Baws and a Boabby. That’s the future!

    326. Dan says:

      “Humans are amazing creatures”… they certainly are as displayed by the diverse choices they make, as I was reminded of earlier this afternoon…

      I nearly passed out due to the quadruple emotional response overload of bewilderment, disbelief, sorrow, and laughter when told of a youngish couple that have taken out a 40 year mortgage utilising Government Help to Buy scheme… on a house built by Persimmon!

      Fuck me sideways! How did it come to this for our younger folk… 🙁

    327. cynicalHighlander says:

      Eventually found website better than nothing.

    328. Beaker says:

      O/T Some good news.

      Scotland’s ladies have won their match and maintain a 100% record in Euro qualifying.

    329. A Person says:


      Don’t worry, in the long run this crazy situation will end, it’s just a matter of time, it’s unsustainable. Patience and courage, sanity will prevail!

    330. Effijy says:

      Only 6 allowed at Xmas but 30 for a funeral?
      I will be holding a funeral for my pet Turkey who is due to die on the 25th December.

      A Xmas Cracker!

    331. Alf Baird says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Yip, some folk perhaps need to read up on well established theories such as cultural imperialism, Schiller’s (1989) ‘packaged consciousness’, Gramsci’s ‘cultural hegemony’ (Buttigieg 1992), and adverse health impacts from longstanding cultural oppression of indigenous Scots which results in the ‘Scottish Cultural Cringe’, feelings of inferiority, and for many a ‘schizoid psyche’ (Purves 1998). Scotland’s prevailing ‘Cultural Division of Labour’ under internal colonialism (Hechter 1998) and resulting inequalities and national under-development notwithstanding.

      Hatuey suggests that culture is an illusion, though the great Scottish folk singer Dick Gaughan maintained that the only cultural illusion Scots are endlessly fed is the illusion of a supposedly exceptional ‘British’ culture.

      As Fanon wrote: “The poverty of the people, national oppression and the inhibition of culture are one and the same thing.”

    332. O/T

      I’m about to vote – do we just select the one candidate we want or do we fill in the other candidates in descending order?

      What do peeps think?

    333. Stan Broadwood says:

      cynicalHighlander 10.19pm

      That link to Scotia is, by coincidence, a site a Councillor friend told me to look at today.

      Haven’t got round to it yet.

      I think they want to go down the Indy and EFTA route and also extremely anti-Woke AND Sturgeon.

      Will follow it up in the morning to see what they are all about.

    334. Effijy says:

      Did you know the new Tory Passport for the return of the Empire
      Is now being produced in a dark blue colour.

      Who needs the Europeans and their travel free burgundy passports?

      The company producing the new passports is a French/Dutch Company
      Producing them in their Polish Factory
      with Italian software
      and Spanish Ink
      On paper produced in Finland.

      A company from Durham bid but couldn’t be competitive and look like going bankrupt.

      There you go. Extra Tariffs on your imported Britnat passport.

    335. Dan says:

      meg merrilees.

      I understand it’s STV so vote till you boak (rank them all)

      Good to learn your SNP Political Education Officer has informed the members on how the voting system actually works…

    336. cynicalHighlander says:

      @meg merrilees

      I suspect that the winner has already been picked and has its speech ready for the off.

    337. Effijy says:

      Almost a quarter of a million applications for Irish passports have been submitted in under three months.

      Next year you can whip out your alternative passport, that is cheaper than
      the UK rip off price and walk through your European Holiday Airport without
      the dirty foreigner queues and be treated with respect by the locals.

      I can’t prove Irish ancestry so can’t get their passport.
      I can prove I have no English blood but get forced to take
      The English passport for their local colonies?

    338. Effijy says:

      Julia Bradbury had a TV show about walking Loch, which she
      advised actually means lake?, Lomond.

      Visiting a hostelry, she ordered a Whisky and advised viewers that
      Our National Drink makes £125 per second for the Scottish Government.

      Now there was I thinking the alcohol tax went to England’s treasury and
      that all the VAT went to the Treasury and all the exported Whisky left English

    339. stonefree says:

      @ Dan at 8:59 pm

      Thanks ,sorted

    340. Effijy says:

      Tax on Scotch in the UK currently stands at 72%, meaning around £3 in every £4 spent on Scotch Whisky in the UK goes to the HM Treasury in excise and VAT. But it doesn’t have to be this way.

      No it could all come to an Independent Scottish Government!

    341. mr thms says:

      Effijy @ 11:14 pm

      Could be thinking of the future when programme repeats are shown and Scotland is independent.

    342. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @APerson (10.45) –

      Indeed it will.

      I like your thinking, and wish it would become more widespread – by forcing folk to isolate, the ‘authorities’ may have shot themselves in the foot. Rather than become disconnected with one another – as is plainly the aim – we may have become stronger through having the space and time to really think about what’s happening, what our ‘relationships’ are all about.

      I’ve never felt closer to friends and family than I do right now. This whole sorry episode has made me appreciate them in ways I never thought possible.

      Without going into specifics, I am surely not alone in feeling a keen hatred for those who have imposed their ‘plans’ on us. They will, eventually, have to account for their actions.

    343. Stan Broadwood says:

      Andy Ellis regards Cam B.

      All great writers are an aquired taste and are not really appreciated until after they die.

      CamB will be no different, you won’t really appreciate his works until after he is dead.

      You just mis-understand him.

    344. Fireproofjim says:

      Whisky tax is levied in the country where it is sold so all the whisky tax currently levied in England will still go to the U.K. treasury when Scotland is independent. Of course the tax on whisky sold in Scotland will stay in Scotland, which is 100% more than we get now.

    345. A Person says:

      -Iain Brotherhood-

      I like to say that I learned to become an optimist the hard way! Best wishes to you.

    346. Joe says:

      @Stan Broadwood

      I appreciate Cameron also. He is a living embodiment of the school of thought that he attempts to articulate to everyone here.

      Disconnected. Lacking in consistency. Totally in your face whether you will it or no. Unable to stand up to close scrutiny. Fundamentally just a hostile tool to shut down or attack honest inquiry and break down coherent thought

    347. robbo says:

      A Person says:
      23 October, 2020 at 10:45 pm

      Don’t worry, in the long run this crazy situation will end, it’s just a matter of time, it’s unsustainable. Patience and courage, sanity will prevail!


      Aye. We’re rounding the corner, just like the “orange panda” keeps saying.

      Some fecking corner this, it’s been rounding that corner for 9 months and still has not gone away. And It won’t just like flu, comes back every year without fail. But if, you would wear a mask and socially distance we might get somewhere. Keep burying your head in the sand and we’ll have it around for good while yet. Enjoy your Xmas.

      Go read an Ickey book or sumit.

    348. Joe says:


      lol. Thanks for playing completely the role I identified earlier that people play when confronted with people questioning Covid.

    349. Scott McCallum says:

      A lesson for history books, from history books:what about future history books? I do not think the British State will allow a meaningful vote on Independence until the present monarch is no more.
      BASED ON THE SECOND ELIZABETHAN AGE – it doesn’t seem to end with the breakup of the UK…at this time.. under a Charles as George VII/ or a William V then the generational question reappears but is no longer working against the pro independence movement.
      The tv media-led by a propagandising BBC,such as Kirsty Wark & Sarah Smith etc with Labour connections from last century try to trip up the tame Scottish nationalist politicians put before them or under report the situation.
      The State- If you understand K. McCallum was brought in to among other things slow down the march to sovereignty. The future is bright but the future runs through Westminster, Harrogate and Cheltenham…before it ever gets to the voting paper. If the Privy Councillors don’t play it right – the Golden Ring of truth is easily sabotaged and could be beyond this Westminster Parliament’s Tory majority of seats intransigence and hostility to better government. The waiting game is the only tactic that fits into the historical peaceful narrative. A second Scottish Enlightenment and economic sustainable ideas to cope with being outside or inside the EU have to be fleshed out. Not for true believers but the Oxbridge elites that run what’s beyond Scottish influence and can stymie for a while, maybe a long while.

    350. ben madigan says:

      @Hatuey who said

      “It is not straightforwardly the case that Scotland is a colony of England.”

      Quite true. The same consideration applies to Wales and Ireland. Ireland had, and today Wales and Scotland still have, MPs who sit at Westminster and participate in UK Government.
      As do MPs from Northern Ireland (except for Sinn Fein).
      If SF were to abandon its abstentionist policy, their MPs could take their seats in Westminster tomorrow.

      None of the “real” colonies ever had Westminster MPs – not India, Nigeria or any other. In fact lack of representation in Westminster was one of the main causes of the American Revolution.
      As the American Revolutionary slogan said “No taxation without representation”

    351. Hatuey says:

      Alf Baird, I don’t think I ever elevated culture to “illusion” status. I don’t even think it qualifies as that, well, not without subsidies anyway, not to mention conjurers.

      Please note that I dismiss British culture and all others too. They’re all essentially the same, much like religions, with priesthoods, deities, chosen people, etc.

      I keep asking people to define Scottish culture and they never do it. Maybe that’s the cringe thing you keep mentioning.

      I’m not looking to annoy anyone over this. One of the reasons I object to culture is that it’s – by its very nature – a divisive thing.

      I don’t see why you can’t enjoy Burns, the Proclaimers, Haggis, pipe music, etc., etc., without press ganging it into some sort of cultural crusade.

    352. Hatuey says:

      Actually, ben madigan, the history of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, in terms of their relations with England couldn’t be more different.

      Wales was formally annexed, as I understand it, between the 13th and 16th centuries, and essentially ceased to exist as a legal or sovereign entity. I believe this was considered perfectly legal at the time.

      Scotland, even within the Union, didn’t cease to exist. I’ve never heard anyone suggest otherwise, not seriously.

      Ireland’s status and relationship is much more complicated. I don’t think anyone can escape the fact that it was brutally occupied against the will of its people and forced into all sorts of arrangements that, after the Treat of Westphalia, 1648, were essentially illegal in terms of International Law.

    353. David Wardrope says:

      Unlike Stan /(and)/ Joe, I’m going to stick my neck out for Cameron on the basis that he’s been here since before the referendum and I figure that’s enough commitment from him for me to cut him some slack. We all post things that others might not care for, but his right to post is as much as all of ours. That is all.

    354. David Wardrope says:

      @ mist001 8:28pm

      Schools have been back a week already, you may be thinking of English school holidays…

    355. Tartanpigsy says:

      Is Spameron another of Stan’s minions?
      Here to deflect and detract.
      It’s a definite maybe.
      But I’d be far to thick to know…

    356. Hatuey says:

      Brotherhood: “They’ve tried terrifying us with all manner of hobgoblins and spectres for decades, centuries. And many of us succumb. But plenty don’t, and we keep going.”

      Yes, true, but in those other cases there was a huge financial motive – i.e. tax and spending on things like jet planes, bombs, and other aspects of “defence”.

      You don’t have that sort of motive with coronavirus. Quite the opposite. Their financial motive is demanding that we all be good slaves and get back to work. It’s costing them money, in other words

      And that’s the big problem with this particular conspiracy theory. It puts you on the wrong side with all the wrong people (big business, Trump, Boris, etc., all telling us to get back to work).

      Okay. What are all the new morgues for?

    357. A Person says:


      Many people like to say that Scotland was colonised. I don’t really agree. Yes our leaders in 1707 sold us out but that was standard at the time, territory changed hands all the time, and enough people on this site know about protections in the Treaty of Union to prove that it is far from one-sided. As for things like the Jacobite risings, yes that was bad but similar cruelties were shown by the ruling class to the people of England who tried to assert themselves. Similarly only the most naive could pretend that Scots didn’t play a disproportionate role in the British Empire. Think of Jardine Mathewson, basically started the Opium War to flood China with cocaine (thank God no other global hegemony has tried that one recently eh?), then moved home to the Western Isles and promptly expelled the locals. Scots had and have the ability to be as corrupt and vicious and imperialistic as any Englishman. And Scotland was never as treated as a colony, as Ireland largely was.

      But that’s the past, for most people in Scotland life was quite hard same as for most people in England and Wales, difference is that in modern times (the last fifty years) we’ve realised that and they haven’t.

    358. Confused says:


      the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
      the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

    359. ben madigan says:

      @Hatuey who said
      ” Actually, ben madigan, the history of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, in terms of their relations with England couldn’t be more different”.
      I wasn’t commenting on the very different histories of Scotland, Wales and Ireland or the effects of those histories.

      I was merely pointing out that representation at Westminster with MPs from Scotland, Ireland and Wales was very different to “real colonies” which never had any MPs.
      That participation in UK rule had/has an effect on the culture of each place

    360. CameronB Brodie says:

      I wish you would stop downplaying and obfuscating the significance of culture, which the UN considers the “fourth pillar of sustainability”. So perhaps you would benefit from a theoretically grounded perspective that acknowledges “Phenomenology as a Theory of Culture”. That way you might be able to better support human rights law and democracy. 😉

    361. Hatuey says:

      Confused, I don’t deny that the word exists.

      Similarly, I don’t deny that religions exist – they do.

      It’s the God part that I struggle with.

      More anti-theist than agnostic, in that sense.

      Put a tree on one side of the garden and it grows and leans to the left. The same trees on the other side grow and lean to the right. Is that culture?

    362. CameronB Brodie says:

      Come on now, don’t you start.

    363. Hatuey says:

      CameronB, everything I say about culture could be understood in phenomenological terms. I’m an existentialist, of course, and constantly on the lookout for humankind’s little tricks (culture being just one of them).

      Anyway, time to sleep.

    364. Hatuey says:

      ben, the Irish political system, if I remember correctly, was destroyed by Britain in the late 18th century and they started sending MPs to Westminster from about 1800 onwards.

      Wales, as far as I know, was sending representatives to Westminster from the mid-16th century.

      In neither of those cases could it be argued that representation at Westminster equated to a degree of democracy or fair play. Quite the opposite, I’d say.

      Scotland was different. It was essentially sold by the Scottish nobility. Of course, they had no right to sell what wasn’t rightfully theirs, many people objected at the time, and we have been dealing with the consequences ever since, etc., etc.

    365. CameronB Brodie says:

      Well if you’re into a bit of existential phenomenology, you might be interested in looking “Beyond Ontology: Ideation, Phenomenology and the Cross Cultural Study of Emotion”. Night, night, 😉

    366. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some would have Scots believe they have no culture, including Westminster. So that means this “Review of Scottish Culture” doesn’t exist. Which means the non-existent “Review of Scottish Culture” does not provide “An annual journal that focuses on the social and cultural history of Scotland, its material culture and ethnology”. If I was to hazard a post-colonial psycho-analysis, that indicates some suffer from a serious social pathology that is grounded in the denial of epistemic truth.

    367. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….a serious AND UNHEALTHY social pathology that is grounded in the denial of epistemic AUTHENTICITY AND INTEGRITY. Night, night.

    368. cynicalHighlander says:

      Hopefully the beginning of the end.

    369. Abalha says:

      In Today’s Times on the selection contests, saying one of Nicola’s besties Shirley-Anne ‘GRA’ Somerville could be in trouble.

      ”The process of choosing SNP candidates for next year’s Holyrood election has descended into chaos with legal threats being made and a local branch placed in “special measures”.

      ”More than 140 people are bidding to stand in 32 constituencies.

      ”One of the closest races is likely to be in Edinburgh Central, where Angus Robertson, the former deputy leader of the party, is facing a challenge from Marco Biagi, the former minister who held the seat between 2011 and 2016.

      ”In Dunfermline, Shirley-Anne Somerville, the Scottish government social security secretary, faces a challenge from her former campaign manager. Multiple senior SNP sources have said Ms Somerville is “panicking” about being ousted by Rob Thompson, a retired naval officer”

    370. Robert Louis says:

      Xaracen at 811pm,

      Lizzie Windsor was crowned in England, as Queen Elizabeth the second. This actually at the time caused great anger in Scotland, even by unionists, who firnly believed in the monarchy, even in Scotland. It was seen (rightly) as utterly disrespectful to Scotland’s crown.

      It was actually challenged in the court of session in Edinburgh, by Neil MacCormick. The court decided, that this was royal prerogative – i.e the queen, being the queen could herself do whatsoever she liked (a bit of a cowardly cop out, if you ask me).

      In response some Scots took to vandalising post boxes, which were being introduced with the logo, ERII. These were all removed from Scotland, and most only have a crown on them.

      It is interesting to note, however, that on at least one occasion, I witnessed Alex Salmond, as First Minister address lizzie as Elizabeth I, Queen of Scots. He did this at one of the parliamentary opening sessions when the queen was sitting in the Scots parliament, only a few feet from him – I do not doubt the fooage is somewhere, as it was televised.

      Since her coronation and the stoshie caused, many in England have tried to come up with ‘excuses’ for the numbering, but they are all just piffle. It was a very ENGLISH decision, in that England already had an Elizabeth I. They cared little for what Scotland thought, and still do.

      So far as I am concerned, I have little time for unelected heads of state, like Queens and kings. If ANY person (and this included lizzie saxe-coburg) want to be a monarch in Scotland, the very least they should be doing is respecting Scotland’s history, and actually putting the ACTUAL Scottish crown on their head. Lizzie has done neither.

      Shortly after her coronation in England, Lizzie was sent to Scotland, to make it all seem like it was inclusive of Scotland. Many in Scotland got excited about it, but were utterly mortified at what happened on the day – they had expected a Scottish coronation. She came up to Scotland, dressed in her regular clothes, and went to St.Giles kirk in Edinburgh. In a small ceremeony, she was presented with the ‘honours of Scotland’. Many had thought she would have the crown put on her head and were very angry at what happened. She was literally handed the crown on a big cushion, which she touched for a few seconds, and that was it.

      Even royalists in Scotland were angry at the time, feeling it was a complete betrayal of them, and treating the Scottish crown with contempt. In fact, it was later revealed, that the organisers in Scotland has wanted her to be crowned, but England thought it would give support to Scottish independence, and make Scotland seem more important or different to England. So, she has never wore the Scottish crown.

      Ignore other replies on here that try to suggest ‘reasons’ (excuses) for the numbering. It was and is yet another case of English exceptionalism, and arrogance when it comes to Scotland.

      It is one of many reasons I have no respect whatsoever for the old lady called Lizzie Windsor, that the English call Queen Elizabeth II. The numbering was and still is an insult to Scotland.

      Footage here, I think at 5 minutes, 2 seconds.

    371. Terry says:

      At the very best this was a knowing waste of over half a million pounds of tax payers money. At the worst it was a criminal plot.

      It’s all unravelling now.

    372. Terry says:

      Yes Cymru here saying how their membership has quadrupled since Covid. (For those bigging up Nicola on this it shows it’s more to do with incompetence of bojo and Westminster)

      What a great speaker this guy is. Ten times better than most snp politicians on independence.

    373. McDuff says:

      Good post Robert.
      It always amazes me that the monarchy tries to pass themselves off as British when they are in fact 150% English.
      They take titles like Duke of Edinburgh and Prince of Wales to satisfy the natives but in their head they are English.
      They are born in England , educated in England, are Church of England, get married in England, get buried in England, all have English accents, yet despite this i am supposed to feel some connection.
      I also read an article once where the Queen’s sister Princess Margaret described
      the Queen as the Queen of England.
      I have also seen countless tv dramas and documentaries where the a British monarch is described as the King/Queen of England hence Americans believing that to be the case.
      It’s the 21st century and it is ridiculous that we still call someone “your majesty”.

    374. MaggieC says:

      Abalha @ 6.36 am

      This is from the Daily Record three weeks ago about Christina Mckelvie and Shirley Anne Somerville .

      Two Scots ministers for elderly rights are ‘missing in action’ as coronavirus killed thousands in care homes . Activists’ outrage at inaction of fat-cat MSPs in charge of older people’s rights.

      Shirley-Anne Somerville, meanwhile, rakes in an additional £48,449 as Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People – a total pay packet of £112,919.

      That’s the same Shirley Anne Somerville who is determined to push through the controversial Gra reforms and she won’t stand up for women’s rights. Hardly surprising that she’s suddenly appeared on the daily briefings along side Nicola Sturgeon.

    375. Andy Ellis says:


      Spameron’s wings have been clipped by Stu insisting he refrains from clogging up the BTL comments with screeds of cut and paste secondary source material. Sadly after a period of blessed relief, he has re-infected the BTL with a similar number, if not length, of his “de haut en bas” brain farts.

      We can only hope Stu eventually comes round to banning him altogether….?

    376. Famous15 says:

      Aye right! It always amazes me how many squirrels distract our gaze from the prize of INDEPENDENCE.


      Hate crime

      The monarchy

      The SNP and all its works

      Even Covid

      I do not give a rats ass about any of that till we are free to decide for ourselves. Mibbes a wee bit of the Swiss style of referendums on such matters might enter the Constitution of a
      free Scotland. It would sure see off the evil of special interests.

    377. Ottomanboi says:

      THIS along with THIS are FAR MORE CONCERNING than the fairy tail of St Nicola of the Tartan Mask and the battle with the chimera SARS-COV-2.
      Scotland needs to become a country fit for the young not a care home for the unfit and past it with pretty views.
      The zimmerlike pace of Scotland creeping and shuffling towards independence is not a reflexion of vigor, vim, verve or vivacity in any capacity.

    378. Famous15 says:

      I guess we will soon find out how stoutly pro independence Angus Robertson is when he does not get selected for Edinburgh Central.

    379. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey (1.42) –

      Just a quick one to acknowledge your comment.

      I can’t ‘reply’ to it as such as I genuinely can’t make sense of it but thanks anyway.

    380. A Person says:

      This is a good example of how round-the-bend batshit crazy “intersectionality” is:

      It’s an environmental group. It doesn’t have the faintest **need** to make this statement. Some demented young activist will have decided that it’s time to state their “allyship”. The normal people who are interested in Friends of the Earth’s work will respond with bafflement and horror. And get this- the enthusiastic activist will be **pleased** by this. They will be genuinely amazed by the adverse reaction and actually glad that people with “problematic” views are leaving their organisation.

      How can people be expected to take an organisation’s environmental views as scientific if they are happy to state something completely unscientific when it suits them?

    381. Stan Broadwood says:

      Pig Sty

      I notice you have singled me out again for “special attention”.

      A bit of a fixation going on here Pig Sty

      I think you call it stalking.

      Your last four or five posts have had the name Stan in them,,, very strange.

      And I agree with you on one point, you are too thick…

      Your non criticism of Sturgeon and your beloved SNP continues.

      You have been told before, you are a useless piece of shit. Away and crawl back up Sturgeon’s arse,,,and do us all a favour,,, fuckin stay up there.

    382. SOG says:

      I just looked up the statistic for obesity in England. Overweight + obese makes 64% of adults. So it looks to me like action is needed nationally.

      That’s 35.6 and 28.7, respectively, 2019 data, HoC library.

    383. Stan Broadwood says:


      You are another mad mental Sturgeonista, just like Pig Sty, who won’t have a bad word said about “your” Nicola or “your” SNP.

      Famous,,, you and Pig Sty have wandered on to the wrong website again,,, I would see a doctor about that.

      Next up will be their equally enthusiastic Sturgeonista “robbo”,,,any time now.

      They are NOT for turning.

      There hobby is to come on to Wings and act as part time gate keepers.

      And just generally be a pain in the arse.

    384. Republicofscotland says:

      Alex Salmond has called upon the Sturgeon/Murrell government to publish their legal advice behind their decision to fight his judicial review, after it emerged minsters knew they would lose months earlier.

      Salmond has instructed his lawyers to provide extensive documentation from the court proceedings for the inquiry and there’s nothing stopping Sturgeon’s government from doing the same if they’ve nothing to hide that is.

      Its in the publics interest to know what Sturgeon and her clique were up to, after Salmond was awarded a significant sum of taxpayers cash, £512,000 pounds, and another £180,000 pounds of taxpayers cash was wasted on the Sturgeon trying to defend the indefensible.

      Do the decent thing for Scotland Sturgeon and stand down, oh and take Murrell, MacKinnon, Evans and a few other rotten apples with you.

    385. Republicofscotland says:

      Wullie @10.05pm.

      Yes a bright new future was promised on renewables, wind and water, tens of thousands jobs if not more were promised along the way, clean cheap energy was the slogan.

      Cheap energy for whom I wonder certainly not Scots, renewables is another source of energy and income that Scotland has been shafted on first came the oil and gas. A country (Scotland) which has been blessed with umpteen natural resources, oil, gas, wind and water power, waters full of fish, yet a significant chunk of Scottish society still remains deep in poverty.

    386. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I suppose, as the guy who brought The Queen into this thread, it’s partially my fault that, as usual, we have become bogged down in minutiae – that’s typically Scottish.

      In suggesting we get HM involved, I was thinking – just about the last thing any department of State wants is to have a wee note sent round from the Palace: “HM has received considerable correspondence on this issue – what is being done about it?”

      The last thing Boris wants is for HM at their weekly audience, to tell him: “Mr Johnson, I have received thousands of letters from my unhappy Scottish subjects (which technically we are not), who want you to agree to a second referendum. My ladies-in-waiting are snowed under with this correspondence, so what are you going to do about it?

      “And, by the way, that Sturgeon woman is suggesting, the Scottish people have to power to refuse to recognise me as Queen, and I really do enjoy my summers at Balmoral – so, maybe you should get your finger out and sort-out this mess.”

      We have to use every weapon at our disposal, that may be a very left-field approach, but, we can rule nothing out in our fight for Independence.

      So, stop arguing about meaningless ceremonial from 1953, or what the woman calls herself – if we put pressure on her to act, it just might pay off.

    387. McDuff says:

      What planet are you on.
      It’s not posters on this site you should be critising. You say you want us all to concentrate on Indy well I suggest to have a word with Sturgeon and the SNP as they are the ones who have diverted their energies to GRA, the hate crime bill and the disasterous AS debacle rather to the persuit of independence.
      If you stand with Sturgeon you stand with the union.

    388. robertknight says:

      David Wardrope @ 1:25

      Not all are back – ours (Stirling) don’t start until Monday.

      Robert Louis @ 7:46

      Don’t know why people fixate on the numbering issue with Elizabeth II. The same shit already happened in 1830 with William IV – Scotland had never had a William III, (Only William the Lion and William of Orange), but it didn’t stop them from sticking to the English numbering then, nor did it in 1953. (For Elizabeth, Winston Churchill suggested they just make up their own ‘convention’ to suit their own ends).

      I certainly can’t find a reference to any complaints in Scotland in 1830 about the numbering for William and there were definitely no WIVR pillar boxes blown up – they didn’t exist until 20 years after William’s death. If the current Prince William, Earl of Strathearn, sticks to Churchill’s convention he’ll be William V, despite being only the fourth in this country. (Feel free to “ignore” the above however – I prefer to laugh at the ignorant as opposed to educating them… laughing burns off more calories!).

    389. Colin Alexander says:

      “We the electorate demand an end to the practice of paying expenses to MPs for food and drink; and that any & all food and drink in parliamentary establishments (such as the one pictured) be chargeable to MPs at market rates”.

      I invite Wingers to consider signing the above petition.

    390. Beaker says:

      On the Queen, I don’t see the point in getting upset about it. She doesn’t have any real power.

      In an independent Scotland let’s not airbrush the monarchy out of history by renaming locations. For example, Royal Deeside attracts a lot of tourists from around the world. Likewise, Queen’s View near Pitlochry is an absolutely stunning place to visit.

    391. A Person says:

      Personally think that retaining the monarchy post-Indy would reconcile a lot of unionists to independence. In my family there’s many for whom “Queen and country” feels visceral and for whom having that taken from them would be a right slap in the face. Ludicrous I know but that’s how they’ve always thought. They don’t really have much control attachment to Westminster, Toryism and all that.

    392. Alf Baird says:

      A Person

      As Robert Louis remined folks, ‘HRH’ wis nivver crooned Queen o Scots!

    393. Breeks says:

      For me, the telling thing about Elizabeth I or II isn’t about the queen, but the fact back in the 1950’s people were vexed and angry that Scotland’s National Constitution was simply being insulted.

      Fast forward to 2020, and Scotland and it’s Constitutional Sovereignty has been unequivocally subjugated through Brexit, and the SNP, our elected “champions” to fight for Independence clearly couldn’t give a shit about this unconstitutional and unlawful colonialism.

      That’s an absolute disgrace. Sturgeon should resign in infamy for that ‘strategy’ alone, never mind her grubby conspiracies and hijacking Scottish Independence to promote bizarre Transgender absurdities. By what authority or mandate did she have any right to do that? Independence is OUR project, and every instance of the GRA bullshit is an abuse of the numerous Independence mandate(s).

      What makes me extremely concerned is Scotland’s resistance to our Anglicisation and the erosion of belief, (and indeed basic knowledge), of Scotland’s Constitutional integrity seems to be accelerating and growing roots. It creates a sickening anxiety that we are leaving Independence too long, and our UK Indoctrination and assimilation will soon be beyond redemption. Scotland’s past will be permanently be divorced from it’s people. Our Scottishness will be too diluted.

      Before long, we won’t be resurrecting the old Scotland, because nobody seems to have any grasp of what that actually means, nor understands the concept of two constitutionally equal nations joined by a bilateral Treaty. The only “living” theory in the heads of most Independentists, is the UK’s false doctrine that Scotland has no Constitutional Sovereignty and our nation actually was subsumed.

      Scotland’s actual and extant constitutional sovereignty is now very close to being dismissed as folklore, of no meaningful significance. That would be an absolute tragedy for Scotland, and after 300 years, the coup de grace for those usurpers with colonial ambitions over Scotland.

    394. Beaker @ 12.01 on the 23rd
      “Furthermore, if Scotland was to declare the Treaty of Union breached, citing Scotland’s unconstitutional Brexit subjugation.”

      Now I understand exactly what that means, but as the EU did not exist at the time of the Treaty of Union, would that not make the Brexit argument irrelevant, considering that the EU Referendum was held as a UK-wide vote, and that the Treaty of Union did not include anything about leaving the EU?

      An interesting thought. I guess that highlights the notion that one International Treaty cannot ride roughshod over another International Treaty – e.g. Boris’ plan to renege on some of the Withdrawal Bill breaches international Law because it will impact on the Good Friday Agreement – wasn’t there something in the terms and conditions of leaving the EU about the ‘state/country’ leaving had to do so in a way that was legally compliant with its own legislation. i.e. exactly that England couldn’t illegally force Scotland to leave.

      I think the argument is – the 2014 referendum was a vote by Scotland to stay in the UK
      (Tory speak for – sit down and keep quiet while England sorts it out) and that this is ‘not a normal’ circumstance therefore they can use the clause in the Sewel Convention i.e. Westminster can legislate in a ‘not normal’ circumstance ( Tory speak for – Scotland, shut up and do as you are told).

      To me there are still two obvious flaws –
      Can an EU citizen be dragged out of the EU against their will?
      Scotland can walk away from the Treaty of Union because England has breached it.

      By dragging us out, they breach their agreement with Scotland ( equal partner). By complying with the current Withdrawal Bill a border in the Irish sea creates a disadvantage for the Port of Belfast when the Treaty expressly requires all ports within the UK and N Ireland to be treated equally ; if Boris does renege against his own Withdrawal Bill in an attempt to prevent said border in the irish Sea, he breaches the GFA by creating a land border between N and S Ireland.

      I think the phrase is ‘ between a rock and a hard place’ . Either way, Boris breaches the International Treaty of Union and may even breach the GFA. Perfidious Albion indeed.

      We should have no scruples about calling them out for the breach. Baroness (T)Ruthless Davidson tried her best to prevent the special deal with darling Arlene and her silver-grabbing bunch a while back but nobody seemed that bothered.

    395. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andy Ellis
      I see you’re still cheesed off that I’ve shown folks your full of yourself, and though you appear to imagine you’re some sort of intellectual authority, I know for a fact you are not. And I can prove it, so just watch yourself.

    396. robertknight says:

      Alf Baird at 12:28 pm

      “As Robert Louis remined folks, ‘HRH’ wis nivver crooned Queen o Scots!”

      Aye, and nor were the following ever crowned King or Queen of Scots;

      James VII
      William II
      Mary II

      Didn’t make any sodding difference to them or their subjects that they weren’t.

    397. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I see you’re still cheesed off that I’ve shown folks your full of yourself, and though you appear to imagine you’re some sort of intellectual authority, I know for a fact you are not. And I can prove it, so just watch yourself.”

      Jesus fuck, can you ALL stop this shite?

    398. Joe says:


      Just a few thoughts:

      The purpose of demonstrating any doubts about the current state of affairs and the reasons for ‘measures’ on Covid will not at this moment affect government policy. But what it will do, and why you should do it as often as you can, is encourage others with doubts to also broadcast them. Especially off-line.

      The best way to do this if masks become enforceable by law, or if you are a gentler soul who would rather avoid potential confrontations, is to write a message on your mask. For example with those packs of masks you buy you can write in red marker ‘Covid?’. That way you get to follow the rules while encouraging others.

      Ive not been wearing masks but I might start just to do this.

      We have to get as many people as possible who see through this to broadcast it in some way that is somewhere near their comfort zone. Not everyone is happy being an outcast.

      The last point i’ll make is the darkest and will only resonate with people who have got past the entrance of the rabbit hole.

      We are literally in a war. The people pushing this are making a full-on gambit to achieve political and financial control over much of the world. We are nearer to the beginning than we are to the end.

      From their point of view the most devastating thing that can happen to the growing push back would be for a stronger virus to emerge, whether a different one or a chance mutation. In fact there is some reason to suggest this is exactly what we will face. Which will be followed by economic collapse and ordinary people being left helplessly prostrate before their governments who will be in a position of near total control. At that point they will be in a position to dictate terms of your life.

      If this happens it will be a massive blow to those who have been doing the uncomfortable work of trying to get people to open their eyes. I can just imagine the perverse self destructive smugness even on this comments section not to mention in real life. But as I have suggested – save your emotional energy for people who aren’t out to defend the establishment and will never accept any point you have to make.

    399. Fran says:

      Not only would they have an excuse for achieving nothing, but they could also blame everyone who’s criticised them.

      Bang on Rev, they are playing for a draw next year. Any party that wants rhetoric instead of action is not fit for government. We are about to become like England, no one to vote for.

    400. Andy Ellis says:

      @Rev Stu

      You know, that kind of “you’re all wrong, stop whining” bullshit wasn’t convincing when yer Da came out with it back in the day, and it’s no more convincing now.

      Just a shame you seem prepared to piss reasonable folk off to placate a roaster like Spameron.

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top