You only sing when you’re winning
An intriguing extract from the weekend’s YouGov poll for The Sun:
It’s not the biggest vote of confidence, is it?
There are a couple of interesting aspects to the findings, but we’ll have to rearrange two of the columns into numerical order in order to fully appreciate what’s going on.
Regardless of whether you agree with their politics, which of the following party leaders do you think is currently doing the best job in their role?
ALL VOTERS
Nicola Sturgeon: 43%
David Cameron: 19%
Don’t know: 18%
Nigel Farage: 10%
Ed Miliband: 8%
Nick Clegg: 1%
Among all Scots, Ed Miliband’s leadership is rated FIFTH, below not only Nicola Sturgeon – who’s only been in her job about a fortnight – but also David Cameron, Nigel Farage and “Don’t know”. That’s an astonishing fall from grace in its own right for a country Labour until recently counted as its fiefdom and bastion, but it’s when you look at the Labour voters that the full magnitude of the party’s collapse dawns.
CURRENT LABOUR VOTERS
Ed Miliband: 34%
Don’t know: 24%
Nicola Sturgeon: 16%
David Cameron: 13%
Nigel Farage: 10%
Nick Clegg: 2%
These aren’t 2010 Westminster Labour voters, or even 2011 Holyrood ones. No disgruntled deserters here. These are the people currently planning to vote Labour next May, but even among the most loyal of diehards just a third rate their own leader as the most impressive candidate for the Prime Minister’s job – less than the combined total for Nicola Sturgeon and “don’t know”.
(Among those who voted Labour in 2010, meanwhile, Nicola Sturgeon comes out on top by a massive 40% to 18%.)
We’re not sure any party leader in living memory will have gone into a general election with less enthusiastic backing from his own troops, let alone the country as a whole. Even Labour don’t really believe they’re going to win this one.
Less than the combined vote for Don’t Know and David Cameron. Jings.
Interesting. Maybe they should have elected don’t know instead of Murphy.
On that subject the way I think the SNP should play him, for the GE, is to ignore him.
They say that Jim is a non event. To quote JoLa, The Branch Manager. After all she said much the same as Jim after she was elected in 2011. All power lies with Milliband and his Shadow Cabinet. That’s who we’ll deal with-the decision makers.
When the Tories get back in there will be a lot of devastated no-voting Scots who fell for Labour’s claim that a Labour government was on its way. They’ll wonder why they didn’t vote yes to get rid of the Tories forever. They will blame Labour. Labour are going to be even more toast in Scotland than they are now. They’ll be burnt toast.
This must be why Labour hate the SNP so much.
Scotland is meant to be theirs and theirs alone, SNP stole it. Worse they stole it by being better at what Labour are meant to be than Labour are.
[…] You only sing when you’re winning […]
…but isn’t ‘Super-Jim’ going to save the day and bring us all into Labour’s Scottish Branch Office’s fold..
(queue monarchy style trumpeters)
Labour don’t want to win. They know Ed is unpopular so they keep him. They don’t want to be blamed for making sever cuts and already ststed that they won’t reverse anything, and this alone tells you something. The want to bounce back after and stand in the relics or they could remain in the shadows for a long time and blamed for the biggest mess in modern history
Maybe shows why Jim Murphy can say just about anything regarding the running of “Scottish” Labour as Ed Miliband has little mandate or support to run the official Labour Party.
Isn’t this newsworthy? Is the Labour Party in the midst of a public leadership crisis?
Even if Murphy said he would do away with Trident from Scotland, nobody would believe him.
He will be on the phone to Ed, telling him we are saying this, but we are with you all the way.
Its all a game.
The figures for Nick Clegg are also quite revealing… even among his own supporters he comes in 4th equal,after D.C. , N.S. , and D.K. then equal with N.F. Looks like even their voters are prepared to turn their coats… dearie me…..
Looking at the tables for the YouGov Scottish poll they seem even less impressed with the options for SLab leader. While the response on Which of the following do you think would make the best leader for the Scottish Labour party? mirrored the actual result:
Jim Murphy 29%
Neil Findlay 13%
Sarah Boyack 6%
Don’t know at 52% seems very high for a topic that received a lot of coverage (YouGov panelists, especially Scottish ones, normally have views on everything).
Even 32% of Labour voters had no opinion. SNP voters were the most uninterested at 59% though the remainder backed Findlay rather than Murphy (22-10) which suggests they see themselves as on the left. This may make it difficult for Murphy to win them back – a few vague words about inequality being a bad thing may not be enough.
The scale of Murphy’s task is illustrated by similar figures in this poll to those we saw in YouGov in October. 86% of Yes voters will vote SNP, only 49% of No voters will votes Labour. No supporters have been loud and frequent in proclaiming that 55% is more than 45%. But 86% of 45% is a lot more than 49% of 55% and FPTP which has worked so well in Scotland for Labour for so many years will nearly wipe them out.
And the Smith proposals seem to have made little difference 51% say they “Do not go far enough, and do not devolve enough extra powers to the Scottish Parliament”, though more detailed examination of what people think about the detail (and if they know it) would be nice. As you’d expect 87% of Yes voters want more, but so do 21% of No voters (42% are happy, 23% think they ‘go too far’). Clearly there were Devo-maxers who voted No, but are now unhappy.
Now that’s what you call an ooft. 🙂
Bloody hell Rev
Thank for this. Labour are leaking like a sieve .:) Loving this Xmas.
ClanDonald – I think most now know this. I predict an SNP landslide. 🙂 What’s the odds on 40 plus ?
Miliband can at least console himself that LibDem diehards are in even greater denial than his own Labour diehards:
CURRENT LIBDEM VOTERS
David Cameron: 41%
Nicola Sturgeon: 19%
Don’t Know: 16%
Nigel Farage: 12%
Nick Clegg: 12% [Equal 4th with Farage?]
Ed Miliband: 0%
You can see why Murphy is using their Scotland region and get as far away as he possibly can from Milliband’s spectacular failure. Once Ed’s gone next May, proud Scot but Jim, strong leader of loyal Scots, saviour of teamGB, BBC favourite, will return to London in red Tory triumph. Vengeance is a dish best served cold, from Scotland eh Jim.
It appears that only 12% of Lib Dem voters think Clegg is doing a good job.
Shurely shome kind of record.
You can see why Murphy is turning to patriotism and jingoism, trying to stir up British Nationalists and other assorted sectarian bigots in order to bolster his vote against the SNP. There’s nobody left in Labour.
Agree. Labour probably don’t expect to win this. The long term plan will be to dump the blame for all the cuts to come on the SNP. That’s going to be media darling Murphy’s job, aided by BBC Labour. So they write this election off and hope to come up smiling at the next one.
So Murphy will either be a disposable attack dog backed by his own personal TV channel, or, if he actually manages to get any Scots behind him, then he’s in the perfect position to be shoe-horned in as “the man to unite the union again” and take Mister Ed’s job.
Problem for Labour is, he comes with so much baggage, they’ll need the MSM to tow the line.
He’ll get plenty of Scots behind him, mark my words. No voters, who haven’t seen the light yet or don’t want to. There’s plenty of them.
On the Radio Scotland phone-in this morning, several Conservative callers said that they were now happy to vote labour at the GE because Jim Murphy is the leader. Need we say more?
@YESGUY 3:31pm
Willy Hill seems to be the only bookie interested in politics (mind you, haven’t looked awfy far 😉 )
Favourite range seems to be 21 to 30 with odds of 11/4
41 to 45 gets 8/1 and, oddly, slightly shorter odds for 46+ seats at 7/1
Getting the word out about his weaknesses is beginning to take its toll. Taking a year to make a policy decision about the bedroom tax is coming back to haunt him.
Fewer and fewer MP’s and MSP’s have respect from him and they can’t hide it. They are even leaking damaging documents to the press six months from GE2015: link to archive.today
I reckon David Milliband and Jim Murphy may have a long term master plan;
1. Get Jim Murphy in place as Scottish Leader and give Scottish Labour a veneer of autonomy
2. Make sure Labour does not win GE2015
3. Get rid of Ed the failure and bring back David Millband as Labour Leader
4. Sit back and ride out austerity in the safety of the opposition benches.
5. Take minimum participation in Smith Commission legislation to fool the Scots they care.The Scottish Labour re-branding exercise struggles to make any headway with voters and a lack of self generated finance slows progress.
6. Murphy to work as best he can against the SNP to keep up his profile as a battler. Ignore the Holyrood victory for the SNP, safe in the knowledge that voters in England are starting to notice austerity really hurts. Labour will fan the flames of discontent while the Tories balance the books in readiness for the next general election.
7. GE2020 Despite crippling austerity the Tories will proclaim the bad days are over and really good times ahead. However, Milliband and Murphy will convince a large majority voters in England to vote for Labour, and a landslide victory will follow. They do not have to rely the any Scottish Labour MP’s at all. Scottish Labour branding is a failure and returns to the UK party as a branch office.
Fanciful idea or deluded thinking?
Brendan: Quite so. There are hordes of “secret tories”, they tend to deny that and voted Lib Dem or even SNP until recently. They voted No and will be quite happy to switch to Jim’s empire eternity party, if the BBC keep hammering home the threat that the SNP will take over Westminster and force independence.
Will Murphy stand as a constituency MSP or, play it safe (worked for wee Ruthy) and get on the list?
I have this recurring vision of Jim Murphy dressed up as Sir Harry Lauder.
Am I hallucinating?????
Heedtracker why would he bother, if Miliband loses there will be EVEL to consider and he can never be anything worth while in his eyes. I think he is up in Scotland securing his place before the rest of the Westminster crew realises what has taken place and they need a bolt hole. Then they will have to sook up to Murphy.
Never mind the polls real world stuff in their anoying Scotland region, feel that imperial master red Tory loathing of all things Scottish democracy. Ouchee.
How very dare we not vote all new pro Scotland Murphy or even be cheeky to Severin Carrell, not a sneaky creepy UKOK propagandist at all.
link to theguardian.com
I have this recurring vision of Jim Murphy dressed up as Sir Harry Lauder.
Am I hallucinating?????
No idea, but it sounds horrific.
Murph would win the “knobbly knees contest” in a kilt.
But surely he needs to wear a kilt to be Scottishbut, soon, Burns night?
What tartan though?
I’m wondering if Jim Murphy isn’t angling for something long term. There are rumours, for example, that his pal David Milliband is testing the waters for a comeback if Ed falls in 2015, as expected.
@Robert Kerr 4:13pm
You’ve obviously had a go at putting “Murphy Scottish Tartan” into Google Images and been overwhelmed at the choice.
This seems best bet link to tartans.scotland.net
(It has American connections y’see)
link to m.bbc.co.uk
The sort of Murphy love in we are about to face.
@Andrew Walker
Third paragraph gets the order of priorities right then …
Luigi 4:21pm
Agreed, see my comment at 3:56pm
Spud will instruct his subjects to put him at no 1 on the Glasgow list. That is the only way of making sure he is elected & wont face the humiliation of not only not being elected but coming third or fourth in what up to now has been a safe labour seat.
If labour then get any more than twenty Msps he can claim that he has started to stem the tide because everyone was predicting total destruction of labour and will say “TWENTY ISNT TOTAL DESTRUCTION IS IT?”
When ED or whoever screws up the 2020 general election he will go swanning off to Wasteminster as the leader of labour in Britain using his glittering personality as proof that has stopped the evil SNP it wont matter that he fails AS he will retire with all his expenses that he has accumulated and go off on the tour circuit like The broon man. or perhaps am being cynical?
David Miliband’s return is dependent on the scale of the rendition/torture fallout. He’s damaged goods.
Jim
It gets scary, Tartan you found is Tara/Murphy.
Tara the irish entrance to the underworld.
link to mythicalireland.com
May the Saints preserve us!
If things don’t improve dramatically for labour in the polls by March, or if they get worse especially, I wouldn’t be surprised if Murphy came down with a ”mystery illness” and had to resign as Scottish lab leader due to health probs. Only able to struggle on in his own constituency.
@biggpolmont
Spud will instruct his subjects to put him at no 1 on the Glasgow list.
It would be the West of Scotland list if he tries for a constituency linked to his East Renfrewshire Westminster seat – the Holyrood seat of Eastwood isn’t part of Glasgow. Course he might try for an actual Glasgow seat.
Is this a uk wide poll or Scotland only?
either way, is there a concerted effort across the media/pollsters to pretend the greens don’t exist? that’s the greens that may or may not have more members in Scotland than Labour have remember.
which of the following party leaders do you think is currently doing the best job in their role?
The Scottish electorate, in the sample, can work out who is currently doing the best job.
And yet in Indy Ref, they voted, albeit indirectly, for Westminster as doing the best job in running Scotland.
It must be the case however, that most people in Scotland don’t really believe that.
So this poll gives us additional information about the Referendum in so far as the good management of Scotland was not an issue for the majority, who chose to be ruled from Westminster irrespective of how disastrously the UK was run.
So, what was more important to the 55% than the good economic management of Scotland.
All that’s left is the Unionist tribal sentiment in all it’s varied forms, but which reads along these lines;
‘we don’t care how big a mess Scotland is in, or how much of Scotland’s wealth is taken by Westminster, just as long as Scotland remains Royal Blue – that’s all that matters.’
And yet can it be said that England is Royal Blue particularly with the nornirn influence in the meaning it has in Scotland?
Perhaps Scotland got Independence after all – just not the one that would have made the big difference.
Maybe the future is Orange after all.
@panda paws
What chance of Murphy being on the Glasgow list, yet standing against the First Minister’s constituency – Glasgow Southside as a stunt? Nothing would surprise me with the Labounionists.
So what happens in the year long interim between Westminster and Holyrood for the loveable, plucky, irn bru supping cheeky chappy.
Is there a chance he’ll be voted out of Westminster or not stand?
Anybody fancy an all-expenses paid holiday somewhere in Cuba?
Over 1,600 flights a year leaving Scotland and the UK.
Apply to Guantanamo Jim, Scottish Labour HQ.
Lucky holidaymakers should expect to be brown-skinned, Muslim, male and innocent.
No refunds, compensation or UK official enquiries into Jim’s time while in office in the last Labour Government.
UK provided more support for CIA rendition flights than thought – study
22 May 2013
link to theguardian.com
Big Brian T doesn’t sound too convinced about the Murphy’s big pronouncement. On Radio Jockland a few minutes ago…
Brian gives a bit of a shoulder shrug and says Ed is relaxed about Murphy err!! and immediately following up with “what choice does he have”.
Meanwhile Jim continues to carve a new path into the unknown territory making it up as he goes along 🙂
On radio this morning some Conservative voters say they are happy to vote Labour now Murphy is the new leader.
Has to be his staffers cued to phone in, or idiots thinking it’s Eddie Murphy.
‘Time Passes’ – grousebeater-wordpress
call me dave
murphy will try to sell r.uk’s labs policies and spending plans. wrapped up/reworded as if uniquely scottish plans and policies.
ie localism, as constitutional change.
leopard and spots, nothing will change only the presentation.
I had a wee look on this list of Labour MPs/Msps and MEPs who voted in the leadership contest to see if Henry McLeish voted for Murphy. But he doesn’t appear to have voted at all. Anyone know why?
link to scottishlabour.org.uk
Bugger Murphy!
Sorry if the is too extreme?
BtP
I was listening to BBC Radio Scotland in the car and Murphy getting big hurrahs for standing up to UK Labour. He is going to control policy over all DEVOLVED matters.
Well, that won’t be much them Jim!
What about Trident?
What about Foreign Affairs?
What about illegal wars?
How are you going to control how the Scottish MP’s vote? Are you going to tell them not to support the Tories Charter for Public responsibility:
link to bbc.co.uk
Are you going to get them to copy the SNP and not vote on non-Scottish matters with immediate effect?
How is Scottish Labour going to become self sufficient? Tory donations?
If you can do all this independence thing for Labour, why can’t you do it for Scotland?
Jim said, “Judge me on what I do, not what I say.” Don’t worry about that, we are going to judge you, very soon. Tick tock..
I think I’ve figured out why RED Ed is not getting the astronomical high figures of support he demands from his *ahem* faithful. 😉
link to archive.today
link to bbc.co.uk
Now I know I am on the slow side when trying to get the bottom of the case, so to speak, but surely when Labour M.P.’s are told NOT to discuss immigration then their Lord and Master goes on the offensive on … erm … immigration I would imagine there are more than a few extremely confused Labour supporters out there these days.
I think there will be more than a few e-mails flying towards RED Ed now with the query:
Dear Ed, are we or are we NOT to discuss immigration. First you tell US not to discuss immigration then YOU go ahead and do exactly what you told US not to do. Will you please make up your mind! 😛
if murphy comes to holyrood i will eat my dugs dinner, he makes more in westminster expenses than he does in his salary.
@B(tP)
Now I’m confused. I thought you was from Govan but now you’re telling us its a Southside thing or is it that the cousins stopped off in Ireland before catching the banana boat up the Clyde.
(Thought; maybe its not a Panda thing at all)
I say, steady on old chap. We’re not at Eton now, you know! 😀
No no no…Yes says:
“How are you going to control how the Scottish MP’s vote?”
You hit the nail on the head.
If there is to be such a thing as the Scottish Labour Party then is shouldn’t just be for Holyrood.
Is that their plan? A SLab with responsibility just for devolved issues? Does that mean Labour MPs from Scotland will be outside SLab and owe allegiance to Labour UK?
Sheesh, you would have thought Murphy might have come up with a decent lie, rather than an illogical one.
Westminster MP’s made the decision for the Branch Office appointment. Should it not have been the Branch Office who made the decision. All those free independent decision/ promises etc.
@kalmar
You can see why Murphy is turning to patriotism and jingoism, trying to stir up British Nationalists and other assorted sectarian bigots in order to bolster his vote against the SNP.
He seems to be going all out for Scottish ‘patriotism’.
The catchphrase is ‘patriotism, not nationalism’
It’s doesn’t make much logical sense.
He’s saying it’s grand to be Scottish, but in culture and identity only.
Patriotism without powers..
Or as few powers as Labour can get away with.
Surely it is more ‘patriotic’ to want the Scottish Government to have as many powers as possible – then the Scottish people have the democratic means to choose their own path?
Why is it patriotic to settle for limited powers in a union where we are outnumbered 10-1?
We can still have ‘solidarity’ with the rest of the UK, without having our laws set by them.
This new ‘pro-Scottish agenda’ is patronising bullshit.
No fear of the Murphy loving mainstream media pointing out his lack of control over MP’s. Murph’s in charge will be the mantra. Repeat after me
Murphs in charge
Murphs in charge
Murphs in charge
One new SNP member as of yesterday btw.
So – am I getting this right?
Labour in England is going to appeal to the handful of marginal constituencies, by being toryish –
Whereas Labour in the north UK is going to espouse a left-wing agenda.
How does that work in a pooling and sharing sort of thingie way?
Oh come all ye mournful
mournful and the dump-ed
Oh come ye oh come ye
to Jims christmas bash.
Ah wiz tying to work in three wise men,epic fail.
Dud Smurphy! I thought that do a background check on him as he
can’t always have been a self centered sycophant.
You might enjoy this information from the Smurfs Wikipedia page?
“When they first appeared in 1958, the Smurf lived in a part of the world called “Le Pays Maudit” (French for “the Cursed Land”).
“Smurfs appears to be given their necessities of life, from housing and clothes to food without using any money in exchange”.
Isn’t life strange the way fact and fiction just blends in? lol
Do the proud unionists want us to be Ukanian or Ukish – we need to know.
Soon to be Cheerio, Cheerio, Cheerio. 🙂
Welcome to the choir Andrew, are you a base or tenor? We need to know where ti place you, as we don’t want to mirror Naw’s disharmony. 😉
Onwards
Patriotism without powers.
just another phrase meaning dependence.
or look up to the higher powers, ie them, they know best.
they certainly fear the empowerment energy that we now feel from the yesindyscotmovement.
ye scots get back in yer box!
not a chance.
A one… two– A one… two… three… four…
Half a Scot, philosophically,
Must, ipso facto, half not be.
But half the Scot has got to be
Vis a vis, its entity. D’you see?
But can a Scot be said to be
Or not to be an entire Scot
When half the Scot is not a Scot
Due to some ancient injury?
Singing…
La dee dee, one two three,
Jim the half a Scot.
A B C D E F G,
With apologies to Monty Python my view on Jim’s semi-nationhood aspirations.
Jim the half a Scot.
Is this wretched demi-Scot,
Half-asleep upon my knee,
Some freak from a menagerie?
No! It’s Jim the half a Scot!
Fiddle de dum, Fiddle de dee,
Jim the half a Scot.
Ho ho ho, tee hee hee,
Jim the half a Scot.
HandandShrimp
you have said just what i and the many wanted to convey, good on ye!
Jim Thompson.
Wow only 8/1 for 40 plus. That’s scarey. Thought maybe 33/1 at least. The bookies are never far away Jim. Wow again.
if that comes true then indi is only a matter of time. The SNP could put a mandate for FFA or Devo Supermax at the 2016 SE.
Things are certainly hotting up here in Scotchland. 🙂
Well, we all hope that it pans out like this, but just muse for a second how all this would be had Labour not been suffering these post referendum blues.
It could have been a lot worse for us and could be yet, so be thankful for the small things. 🙂
Paula Rose 7.17,
I think it will be USukers.
@Brendan says: 15 December, 2014 at 3:51 pm:
“On the Radio Scotland phone-in this morning, several Conservative callers said that they were now happy to vote labour …”
Aye! So they did but there was also a fair number of former life-long Labour voters who, post referendum, have not only said they will vote for an independence supporting party but have actually already joined one of the indy supporting parties. No doubt some will swing back to Labour but perhaps there will be more coming over to the YES side.
Let’s face it, for Scottish Labour to choose a right winger like Murphy as their new leader, in a Scotland tending towards the left, sends the strong message to Scotland’s electorate that Labour’s climbing into bed with the Tory/LibDem party was not an isolated one-night-stand but a serious love affair. I dread to think what the product of such a love-in will result in.
O/T An idea to blow your minds….
Fellow Wingers…. Here is an idea for everyone.
How about a crowd fund to make a single New Year Issue of the National completely free?
“Happy New Year Scotland… A real positive issue packed with all the best articles, news, writers, sources, cartoons, GE strategies and so on….”
Imagine going into 2015 with a bang…. People picking up the paper for free to be amazed by the content.
What do you think??
Any National Journalists on? What do you think of a free promotion going onto 2015?
BBC’s News website is ripping Jim a new one with this cracking photo:
link to bbc.co.uk
Brian Taylor’s analysis ends with an unbelievable interpretation of Jim’s vision:
But his underlying aim is to insist that Scottish Labour will put Scotland first. First and foremost. The voters will decide whether they are impressed.
How does this square with LabourHame, Scottish Labour’s blog article by Professor Geoff Davies Labour CLP, Edinburgh: link to archive.today
Whose ever that voice might be, let us all now stop talking about “Scottishness”. That doesn’t define who we are and never has. We’re Labour first and Scottish second.
Let us ask to be judged, too, on how well Scotland and Scottish Labour plays its full part in the well-being of the whole United Kingdom, working together, learning and sharing.
I would suggest they are clueless and making it up as they go along.
Tick tock..
The Eggman isn’t just a problem for what remains of Labour in scotland but a problem the unionist broadcasters too.
The massive unpopularity of Ed Miliband can’t be glossed over forever nor can the fact that Murphy is a westminster MP.
Those two facts would have been front and centre as the most blatantly obvious questions to demand coherent answers on from Murphy if we had anything like halfway competent and unbiased political journalism on our TVs in scotland.
Clearly they are the kind of thing the BBC and STV would rather not highlight as they bend over backwards to try and help ‘scottish’ Labour out of their increasingly deep, dark hole.
I’ve got some bad news for the likes of Ponsonby, Taylor and their London broadcasting masters. There is no way on earth you will be able to hide Ed Miliband’s striking unpopularity in scotland (and indeed elsewhere) or the fact that Murphy is a westminster MP (not an MSP) come the 2015 campaign. So you can give Murphy as many softball questions and glowing assessments as you like because on the streets up and down scotland the public will know the truth.
With getting close to 100,000 SNP members you had better believe if you stay inside the Labour bunker cheek to jowl with Murphy and wee Ed Miliband then you had best be prepared for the consequences as they will most assuredly drag you down with them.
Nor will there be a shortage of ‘helpful’ SLAB figures plotting behind the scenes to make certain that the fallout and blame doesn’t fall on their heads when it becomes every man for himself the closer we get to next May. They fully expect the blame to fall squarely on Murphy and Miliband’s heads like several tons of horse manure. (which it will) Nor do you have to look very hard to find these unhappy Labour figures though admittedly harder than the BBC or STV will ever look.
So when it becomes ever more obvious a right-wing Blairite westminster MP like Murphy was the very last person to ‘unite’ the ‘scottish’ Labour party, what will the broadcasters excuses be then for their laughably glowing portrayals of Murphy the ‘patriotic’ Eggman? 🙂
@Robert Peffers @Brenden
“Several Conservative callers said that they were now happy to vote labour”
Nobody really believes this do they? Even if a Conservative thought it… they’d not share it on the radio. Complete nonsense.
“Several” of the team helping Murphy, more like. Probably one of them was Blair Mcdougall.
So Murphy never even mentioned Johann Lamont, his predecessor, during his victory speech? Not even a gracious thank you to her for leading the party for two years.
Incredible.
@ cearc – Ukuckers?
wingman 2020 says:
15 December, 2014 at 8:01 pm
@Robert Peffers @Brenden
“Several Conservative callers said that they were now happy to vote labour”
Nobody really believes this do they? Even if a Conservative thought it… they’d not share it on the radio. Complete nonsense.
“Several” of the team helping Murphy, more like. Probably one of them was Blair Mcdougall.
Aye, the blue tories may be many things, but they are not that daft. They certainly won’t be voting for Ed Milliband in 2015.
Dropped in to my old Dad’s today and saw the Daily Rancid so against my better judgement I had a look. It actually gave me the dry boak to read Torcuil, Wilson and the editorial. I am now convinced that it isn’t a beard on Torcuils non-chin it is actually a ring of shite caused by being that far up Jim Murphy’s arse…
Didn’t Murphy get the chance to set out his stall and right all the wrongs a few years ago? And as a result they appointed JoLa as leaderene of all of Labour in Scotland.
So isn’t this just another fine mess you’ve gotten into Jimbo? What’s changed, apart from your various about turns?
Get back to us when you’ve thought of Trident, and wars and student fees and, and, and…
I am (along with the lovely Robert Peffers) a bit of a pedant on this – we are all British due to geography –
I really think we need to have a word that describes those who live in the UK.
Ukers?
Ukainians?
Ukish?
Yeuch would be the best pronunciation of Uk.
Onwards says:
This new ‘pro-Scottish agenda’ is patronising bullshit.
Indeed. Labour never learn their harsh lessons. First they tried to out-tory the tories, now they are trying to out-nat the nats. It’s al been tried before, and it just doesn’t work. They are on a hiding to nothing playing those silly games.
Todays classic FM was too carol laden for me so I channel hopped and caught a bit of the above mentioned Radio VoiceOfLabour phone in. I stopped a wee bit as two successive callers laid into Skeletor – one mentioning his expenses. Then they wheeled on one of the acolytes so off I went again, only to return briefly and hear a wifey with a south of Gretna accent tell us she wasn’t a Labour supporter but Jim was a wonderful guy. It was really funny. It was classic North Korean bigging up the guy. I had to go again because laughing so much was dangerous when driving.
Oh, I found an old Jar of Audrey’s baby beets in the back of the cupboard. Surprise, no mention of being 100% British anywhere to be seen. So am no para. They are hitting us with propaganda. Union Jacks on the cooked meats and 100% British beets. Boycott the bloody lot.
Neil Findlay starts campaigning for his new bosses.
link to archive.today
Luigi
…but now Labour in Scotland are truly a Scottish party, dedicated to the patriotic struggle for Devo Max (a few weeks after they fought tooth and nail to minimise further devolution), now they are truly Scotland’s National Party and have parked their bus on the SNP’s lawn surely its time for us all to get behind them?
As Brian Taylor told us on the radio this morning, Jim Murphy is rewriting Clause IV (indeed he has already rewritten it) and everything is going to be OK.
You just wonder how that came about. Do you think he was writing a Christmas card to Ed with wee pic of a smiling Santa Claus in a sleigh pulled by four happy reindeer.
“Claus 4! I’ll do a Claus 4 and we’ll be jinglin’ aw the way tae Bute Hoouse! Ya Bute-y!”
There seems like no other rational explanation.
@Paula Rose
Uklingons?
Any surprise that the highest ‘don’t know’ is amongst ‘No’ and Labour voters?
Dangerous bunch of the uninformed and fickle!
Sent the link to the Bateman interview with Craig Murray to a “relative” last night and got this back.
“Great weekend for scotland and Britain , labour is back. Jim Murphy is the man to take scotland forward”.
Do you think he was steamin?
It got worse btw – I don’t think he’ll be round for Christmas dinner…
As in US+uk+ers,
Uklingons? Now, now Paula Rose, sounds a smelly to me.
UKrooksters
@Paula Rose –
Brutish?
I am amused by Ukish = Yeuchish.
davidb
My mum spotted the ‘meat malarkey’ about a year ago. Refuses to be bullied, so won’t buy anything but Scottish.
True patriotism to her Scottish identity. I’m so proud. 😉
Luigi, Its not a case of first trying to out tory the tories, and now out nat the nats.
It’s even more comical. Uk labour is trying to out tory the tories, whilst in the backwaters the branch office MSP’s are busy out natting, the MP’s are out torying, and the new leader doesn’t have a clue what he is doing being as he’s a member of the outtoryers and leader of the outnatters.
Let’s hope the rest of Scotland gets the joke before may, I doubt the bbc will be spoiling it for them.
They assume it’s been long enough since the ref. To start banging on about great Scottish pride and unifying a disheartened people who maybe fell out over some upset like who didn’t chip in enough at a meal.
WRONG.
Fundamental mistake here is when creepy murphy whispers in that patronising manner in interview that proud Scots can unfurl their banners and jump on his wagon is that pride is not the same as vanity.
Each time he mentions ‘proud Scot’ substitute the pride with ‘vain’ and it begins to show where he’s coming from.
Scottish Labour are Scotland’s shame.
There is no pride in your own suffering or the suffering of your fellow man, especially when there is the opportunity to change the situation.
The SNP is the only credible option.
Folks, you have got to read Michael White’s piece today in the Guardian re Murphy. Stu has linked it on WoS Twitter. Pure comedy gold & it has been shredded by almost every BLT comment. It reads as one of the worst examples (and there’s been a fair few) of the London liberal metropolitan commentariat, and how they view Jock-land & our politics. In fact, it’s almost xenophobic, White comes across sounding like some 19th century Empire Brit pontificating about those pesky Indians in the Raj. A few selected highlights:-
Douglas Alexander, “another clever Scot”, thinks that SLAB too focussed on Scottish de-industrialisation agenda. They need a “forward” agenda.
SNP/Sturgeon need a strong Labour to hold them to account
SNP have strong centralising controlling tendencies (police, fire service, civil service). Subtle overtones of White alluding to Nazi Germany similarities.
BBC won’t dare mention that oil currently $60 a barrel. Michael knows that because a well-placed Edinburgh friend told him! Again, subtle inference that the SNP control the BBC
Murphy the Brave for his ‘100 towns’ tour. Thuggish nats tried to disrupt, required Police Scotland protection ( although they know who pays their wages & sets the agenda – the controlling SNP government, you see?)
Is it any wonder the Guardian is going down the toilet in Jock-land??…
Ukers? Someone, ask Cameron.
To the person who asked why Henry McLeish did not have a vote recorded as an MP, MSP or MEP, it is because he is none of these.
Labour in Scotland ably supported and shamelessly promoted by BBC Labour are, under Murphy about to embark on a journey which they hope will result in the keys to Holyrood.
Before you go down this road I would encourage die hard Labour supporters and fence sitters to look at the road Murphy has already traveled before you give him your endorsement on his proposed road ahead. His track record on major issues which affect Scotland says it all, check it out on line.
This snake oil salesman will say ANYTHING, do ANYTHING and USE anybody to get what he wants. He doesn’t care how many people he has to walk over.
Do not be fooled by this shyster. He wants the top job in Westminster and has no scruples about using some of the people of Scotland to get it.
Do not underestimate this individual.
I rather like Uk***s for people of the Uk.
I’m singing cos I’m winning – keep asking what our new name is… British is geographic, we can all live with that – which form of Ukity are we?
Labour. Keep repeating the same line ie a vote for the snp blah blah tories
Why dont we start the same over and over till its etched in peoples minds except use the phrase
A vote for labour is wasted as the leader of the scottish branch can only vote in england
Has anyone else noticed the resemblance between Blair McDougal and Jackie Bailey!
Is he her son ?
@Paula Rose & friends
How about ukelele ?
@frazer – How about ukelele ?
Oh yes and this could be the national anthem…
link to youtube.com
I am surprised that no-one has yet mentioned Kezia Dugdale’s car crash interview on BBC Jockland’s Drivetime programme today at around 4.20 PM.
In this, her first big outing as Deputy Dug, she did that thing that Maggie Curran and Anas Sarwar do when they are asked even a slightly tricky question – She spoke veryveryvery quickly and reeled off one rehearsed, cliched bullet point after another, interspersed with irrelevant attacks on Baadd SNP, until the friendly beeboid said the magic words – “We’ve run out of time.”
At no point did she actually provide an answer to the most straightforward question. Even the tame interviewer ( Magnusson?) sounded exasperated. She may get away with it in the TV studios but Sturgeon is going to flay her with no hiding place in the Holyrood chamber.
Unfortunately i cannot download the iplayer recording myself, but i would love to see Stu or one of the others here do a transcript and a thorough fisking of the dishonest drivel that passes for Slab rhetoric these days.
Another point – later in the same show Murphy was given free rein to vent about how he was unhappy with the set up in the organisation he has inherited up here. Brian Taylor mysteriously forgot to remind him that it was the review of the party a couple of years ago that supposedly gave JoLa the run of the party in Scotland – a review authored by Sarah Boyack and Jim Murphy!
@Democracy Reborn – have sent a reply to Michael White on twitter.
He was going on about the oil price, so I mention S&P gave iScot highest rating with/out oil and also sent him a link to NNS on BBC bias by Prof Robertson.
Shows he is full of it as he ignored the NNS article and mention S&P were crap – I paraphrase.
Don’t disagree about S&P but he was being selective in his comments.
i would vote ukip before labour, far more honest
Let me see if I have got this right ?
We have a right wing Labour Party in England who are led I believe by a man claiming to be a “Socialist”.
We have a newly independent left wing Labour Party in Scotland with all the ability to make their own decisions, and led by a right wing Blairite.
The same Party (although they are now apparently different somehow) North and South of the border objected to the powers proposed by the Smith Commission, which would enable any incumbent Scottish Government to make real decisions for Scotland. Their Leader North of the border is an ardent unionist who believes Scotland is better within the U.K., and thus campaigned to prevent Scottish M.P.s having the powers to decide on our future. I think I better stop as I am about to disappear into my own nether regions trying to figure this out.
@chlocoderic
So am i, couldn’t believe the fastspeak.
link to bbc.co.uk
13 mins in
Slab are still going to be controlled from Westminster with Murphy still being a Westminster MP and his Deputy dug in the chair for FMQs.
@RobertPeffers
I find that thinking of what the love child of Lib/Lab/Con would be like a very scary thought. I think it would be a cross between Boris Johnson/Ed Milliband/with bits of Ming and Vince thrown in…. oohh horrible..don’t look!!
On another subject I’m so pleased to see you back on here, have you been away? I would like to ask you to advise me on what book(s) would be the best reading for the history of the Union.
Put simply, the Labour Party are carrying on like the most schizophrenic party on this island. One ‘personality’ insists it’s for the Scots and seperate from the other personality, which wants the votes of Middle England (values incompatible with those of West Central Scotland, largely) and they (as many have remarked) hope neither set of people notes what they are promising the other.
The only reason they get away with any of it, of course, is that Brian Taylor and his mates at the Beeb (and many other ‘old’ journos) will NEVER say ‘Murphy promises this whilst the UK Labour party, which holds the reins in practice, says something quite different’. So their schizophrenia passes some people by. Hopefully not enough people, mind you, but we’ll see…
@ clochoderic.
Sorry, not able to provide a transcript, hope this helps.
The Deputy Dug shite starts at 12min 30sec in.
link to bbc.co.uk
On STV Murphy says SLABs membership is 20,000
I am not being deliberately disparaging with this comment, but every time I look at Jim Murphy I have a Reggie Perrin moment, and see him like Adolf Hitler with a small black moustache under his nose, and a swastika on his sleeve. How odd !
Is it just me but when listening to Murphy – horrible but it needs to be done – it becomes clear what the unionist parties’ game plan is. He keeps twittering on about getting power away from Westminster and to the people – also power away from Holyrood to the people. They are just wanting rid of what they now see as the SNP stronghold of Holyrood. The Tories have buttered them up with their not so cunning plan to end the threat of the SNP. Why else would Labour roll over and give in over the income tax issue? Labour has strongholds in local govt – so it suits them. However they are holding out to win at Westminster again – by getting rid of the SNP. Haven’t they learned that it’s toxic to get into bed with the Tories and they are still at it? I’m rambling now but they can get stuffed if they think they can take our parliament without a fight – and a lot of the No voters will agree. We need to keep one step ahead of these slippery, scheming characters.
At this rate, as I have suggested before, the Tories and Labour could end up in a Grand Coalition after the next election, with the FibDem voting collapsing pretty thoroughly. Given what Nicola is reporting as asking for at the moment, stranger things have happened. I don’t think Ed would like to be beholden to the SNP for support in Government, anymore than DC wants to deal with UKIP.
And this photo, if not the article it accompanied, does make me wonder:
link to scotsman.com
Could Murphy attract the right wing of the old, now disillusioned Lib Dem vote to vote Labour and perhaps even some left leaning Tories?
He is after all, one of the greatest human chameleons. Perhaps we should have him crawl over a tartan carpet in the hope he dies of exhaustion (With thanks to Mr Barker).
@Hobbit,
“Wrong”…
cherry, who could you see giving birth to this devilspawn?
@Parahandy – that’s my point; if a Tory voter know that their candidate doesn’t have a show in a Westminster vote, then a little tactical voting won’t go amiss. And the Tories are still 15 percent of the Holyrood vote, or thereabouts.It wouldn’t take much of that to give Labour a shot in the arm …
@Dr Jim.
Why? 🙂
We also must not sing until we have won in 2015.
The BBC and the Record won the referendum for them.
I will not be at all surprised that they will also succeed in getting 40+ Labour MPs elected for them in 2015.
We still haven’t realised who we are dealing with here.
Sorry OT,
Murphy on STV tonight when asked, claimed the membership of Labour Party in Scotland to be 20,000.
He also stated quite clearly, That to get rid of the Tories at the GE in May, the electorate of Scotland will have to vote Labour.
Some things never change.
Rock says:
15 December, 2014 at 11:11 pm
We also must not sing until we have won in 2015.
The BBC and the Record won the referendum for them.
I will not be at all surprised that they will also succeed in getting 40+ Labour MPs elected for them in 2015.
We still haven’t realised who we are dealing with here.
Yes, but they are not as powerful as they think (otherwise it would have been 70% NO). They didn’t exactly manage to get SLAB elected in 2011, did they? (and they tried very, very hard).
Trust the people. They weren’t ready for independence, but they may be ready to dump Labour in 2015.
“Patriotism without powers” should be Labour’s rallying call. Whoever it was here who thought that one up is a genius.
Murphy’s insistence on “total devolution of totally devolved powers so that the powers devolved to Scotland are controlled by Scotland and not controlled by Westminster” (or whatever nonsense it was) struck me as both sad and funny. There he is, King of the Road Signs, warbling political nonspeak for his cereal munching minions.
I get that the Scottish people have low confidence in Ed. I suspect Ed is not feeling all that confident in himself right now. I think electoral defeat may even suit him -to me it is inconceivable that he will win in May. Yet he will live and may even get a shadow cabinet brief after a new labour MP takes over. He will survive as will his mp’s salary.
What I do not get is the complacency of Scottish labour MPs and MSPS whose heads are in the noose. Not one of them was risking their job in the referendum. Now none of them are safe. I talked to one of the former Labour voters this week, a guy I had written off who beyond all my expectations voted yes. “Labour are finished” was his brusk analysis.
On the basis that the greatest consideration for all these career politicians is re election – when are we going to see a floor crossing? There are numbers who detest Murphy, detest with every fibre of their being. When will one put their own self interest before blind loyalty?
If there was a shred of spunk in the ranks we would be seeing either defections, or the formation of a new party. What is it about labour that inspires this blind loyalty, a loyalty beyond all reasons and considerations.
Even Henry for fuck sake. What will it take to pursue another path? You are no longer an MSP but your a lurker on Wings and the labour party in Scotland is the husk of a husk.
On STV Murphy says SLABs membership is 20,000
So they can tell us how many voted in the leadership then and how many had multiple votes?
Given that they were telling the press 13,000 the other day it seems quite a jump and a remarkably round figure to present as the new “truth”
🙂
Strange seeing Margaret Curran smiling next to Murphy in photo op to-day after stabbing Johann Lamont in the back.
Margaret Curren on Jim Murphy
In 1997 the former National Union of Students leader Jim Murphy was widely seen as playing a key role in a successful Blairite ploy to expel numerous left-wingers, Home Rule supporters and feminists from the Scottish Labour executive.
After the Blairite Network group succeeded in removing Rosina McCrae and others from the executive in what was widely seen at the time as a coup for the right wing of the party, at the time, the now Shadow Scotland Minister Margaret Curran said: “My membership fees are not paid to have Jim Murphy carve up Rosina. We should be an organisation for committed activists, not hollow careerists.”
The Scotsman’s view today on the Scottish Labour Party membership.
The party is completely hollowed out. Its membership in the constituency parties is less than 10,000 and perhaps not even a tenth of what the SNP can now boast.
What’s more, senior party members tell me that most of the existing constituency membership comprises the relatives and friends of councillors/MSPs/MPs who see their primary role as protecting these fiefdoms and who would not welcome, let alone cause to happen, an influx of new members who might try to oust second-rate post-holders in favour of somebody new and better.
thats terrific tam, agree with every word, i think the reason is intimidation and threats.
To assume that because John Swinney shares a laugh with Smith, who had basically little to do with the commission which bares his name means that somehow there is or ever could be any political collusion between the two or indeed anybody in the SNP would be mistaken. The SNP have one purpose Independance, make no mistake that at any time the SNP could or would turn on Scotland and become self seekers. The aim right now is MPs for Westminster and the destruction of Murphy’s Labour NS is doing it her way, AS did it his and we nearly won, next time NS will be certain, it’s going to happen a lot sooner than later, POWER at wastemonster first then the Manifesto for the Scotland we want to see, remember, we can’t scare the no voters to quick too soon,and think about it, you may not agree with me but you’ll laugh and if somebody takes a photo at that moment we’ll both feel OK…I am Alex Salmond…
@tombee
FOI request to “Scottish Labour” just sent requesting details of;
1. The current number of Labour Party members in Scotland
2. The current number of Labour party members in the
United Kingdom.
I will get back with the response.
@ Handandshrimp
FOI request just off to Scottish labour requesting current membership figures.
I await their response.
test
Dr Jim
Did you notice how the pic of John Swinney sharing a laugh with Mr Smith was the go-to pic used over and over again as the SNP Smith Comission image?
I would love to understand the puppetry behind the need for broadcasters and press minions to select that image again and again. Therein lies the fundamental problem with our media. A rank, rotten agenda where journalism is required.
Findlay Farquaharson
Aye – somewhere some spark of civic pride or simple self preservation has to kick in you would think?
Want a job?
Idealy pro Union,pro unions,against ever closer union?WTF
link to w4mpjobs.org
Murphy on Scotland Tonight – “Labour” party membership at 20,000? He thinks? He thinks?
20,000?
And then vote SNP get Tory?
I’m away to bed. zzz…
6 January 2011 Scottish Tory minister David Mundell hit by key lime pie
The junior Scotland Office minister was hit with a key lime pie after being picketed at the university town of St Andrews as he made a private visit for a Tory cheese and wine event. Local police held ten protestors for questioning but released them after Mr Mundell, Scotland’s only Tory MP, made no complaint to police over incident. A Tory spokesman said, “David is unfazed, got cleaned up and got on with it. Incident closed.”
Contrast the foregoing with the media furore, police involvement and subsequent court appearance of Jim Spud Murphy’s assailant who had lightly tapped, “Spud” on the shoulder with an egg.
link to theguardian.com
I would be silly to underestimate the destruction of the Labour Party that is accelerating weekly.
If Murphy has been foolish enough to suggest their membership is 20,000 he has given us a stick to completely undermine his credibility.
Gerry Hassan, no fool, calculated their actual political membership,based on receipts, was around 6,000 two years ago. It is much lower now.
We must harry them on this. A very significant proportion of the unsure or not hugely committed electorate will not vote for a party judged to be in collapse.
We have the Nawbags on the run.
O/T i know..
Just noticed a bit on bbc scotland’s main web page titled:
“Murphy pledges Scots Labour ‘rebirth'” Is this the BBC Scotland handing the Branch Office of Labour in Scotland a headline grabbing title?
(but when you click on the story link to bbc.co.uk – the headline is “Jim Murphy to rewrite Labour’s constitution for Scotland” – that doesn’t pledge to me)
(think i’ve done the archive thing right link to archive.today it’s below the ally resignation bit on the left hand side)
Would this be BBC Scotlands headline version of the Vow that the Daily Rag gave front page prominence too.
So will Jim’s Pledge be as empty as the Vow was?
(we all know the answer to that really.. snigger..)
FOI request off to Scottish labour regards current membership figures.
Stevie McB and Stoker, thanks for the response, was surprised Stuart never pounced on it.
It is not difficult to see where this torrent of verbal dysentry comes from. Have a look at this story in today’s Guardian – Ed Milliband responding to a leaked document:
link to theguardian.com
I give you a sample…
Asked whether he backed the paper or if it could have been written better, he said: “I think what matters about our party and where we stand is what I’m saying on this stage, the pledge we’re making, rather than some not-very-well-drafted language, out-of-context in a briefing document.
“And I don’t think anyone’s in any doubt where Labour stands on this. Over four years since the last general election I’ve changed our approach. I’ve changed our approach by repeatedly talking about this issue. And not just talking about it, because this is important, but showing how we’d act.”
He continues in this vein for several paragraphs and you can just imagine the adenoidal tedium as he bores us all into submission.
It is very revealing that Labour, from their leader down, prefer to win the argument – in itself – than actually listen to people.
This explains the reason why rockets like Deputy Dug, Hothersall and Blair McDougal keep getting promoted and content-free careerists like Wee Doogie, Murphy, Harris, Sarwar etc are regarded as talented and influential.
An uncommitted person said to me today “That Murphy is just stealing all the SNP’s ideas”
That’s how it’s reading .
I think Jim and his media circus seriously underestimate the Scottish people.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
And once they’ve stolen them, it will be that much more difficult to criticize the ideas as “SNP bad”.
@Karmanaut
“Agree. Labour probably don’t expect to win this. The long term plan will be to dump the blame for all the cuts to come on the SNP. That’s going to be media darling Murphy’s job, aided by BBC Labour. So they write this election off and hope to come up smiling at the next one.”
Which is exactly why the SNP must, ABSOLUTELY MUST, retain the option of independence for the 2016.
That must be a clear ‘vote for us and you are voting for independence’ election. (Either in a civilised manner via a quick indyref2 or by UDI).
If they do not, Westminster and their MSM cabal, lead by the BBC will ensure that blame for the cuts will fall on the SNP. They will be destroyed, but more importantly, freedom will really then be deferred for a generation.
If the people vote for the SNP/indy 2 in 2016, all well and good, job done. If they do not, that is STILL second prize, because in 2020, after the cuts with no-one else to blame but Westminster, the people WILL by then definitely vote SNP/indy 2, IMO.
I think Nicola is easily smart enough to understand this but the danger is the hubris which goes hand in hand with the political ambition of less able MSPs/MPs’/’Advisors’ , especially amongst those who consider themselves ‘career politicians’, of which there must be growing contingent in SNP ranks.
That short sighted hubris may yet carry the day, even though the power of the SMSM just been demonstrated.
Luigi,
“Trust the people. They weren’t ready for independence, but they may be ready to dump Labour in 2015.”
I hope you are right.
But don’t forget 2010 and the magical spell on the Scottish people of ‘Vote Labour to prevent the Tories’.
And of course there is the mystical anti-independence, anti-SNP ‘silent majority’.
They will also use the Greens and Socialists to prevent the SNP from winning.
A total of 898,000 sanctions were applied to claims for jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) and employment support allowance (ESA) during 2013, according to Citizens Advice Scotland (CAS), with 871,000 of the penalties being applied to claims for JSA.
The advice charity is now calling for urgent changes to be made to the system, which cuts payments if people fail to meet certain requirements such as not attending job centre meetings or not doing enough to find work.
One man in the east of Scotland had his benefits reduced to about £11 a week after sanctions were applied when he failed to attend an interview with a work programme, despite producing a doctor’s certificate to say he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and was not fit to travel, the report stated.
This type of event will double and possibly treble in number from next May unless we send a strong SNP team to Westminster. What a state the UK is in.
link to eveningexpress.co.uk
Tam Jardine,
“On the basis that the greatest consideration for all these career politicians is re election – when are we going to see a floor crossing?”
I don’t want a single Labour (or Lib Dem) MP, MSP or MEP, Malcolm Chisholm included, to be admitted to the SNP and offered a ‘safe seat’.
If anyone wanted to do any ‘floor crossing’, they should have done it before the referendum.
Bring an end to their careers.
At no time in the past or even present does a “VOW” a”PLEDGE” a “PROMISE” mean it will ever be true, if it did it would just undermine the entire political ethos of Westminster Governments of any hue. The purpose of this ruse has always been the ability to deny it’s exactitude or the ability to depose the person making such statements, or indeed the Government of the day has changed, or the economy will not permit, you get the point. Murphy, is a big fat, or tall thin, Blair, say anything for a vote, worry about the rest after you win. In Murphy’s case as i’ve said before, he could’nt give a toss for Scotland, his focus is further up the greasy pole, let’s face it, the guy rips off expenses of over 200K a year on top of his wages, that’s more than the entire SNP,s expenses put together, and that’s the kind of person Murphy is, remember who he trained under, and he’s now a Billionaire, he might be a warmonger, do you think he cares? No! We’ve just been landed with the “Sorcerer’s Apprentice”….. I am Alex Salmond…
@clochoderic, Stevie McB and Stoker
I think Spud must have given her some Speed before the interview.
She has even started to sound like Spud now…
link to youtube.com
🙂
@Hoss Mcintosh
Funny that was my thought,non stop drivel without a breath.
Murphy reshuffling the pack today (Tuesday)
Don’t think he will find a winning hand in the same old pack, too many jokers and no aces.
Jim is moving apace. Is he flying solo or is London controlling him by wire. I’ll say this for him, he is not wasting any time
But, as Big Brian T said earlier about Ed Miliband, “What choice has he got”. So little time to repair at least 30 years of labour selfishness and inertia.
Chic McGregor,
“Which is exactly why the SNP must, ABSOLUTELY MUST, retain the option of independence for the 2016.”
Totally agree. A referendum on independence must remain an SNP manifesto commitment until the day a Yes vote has been delivered.
But can we please forget about ‘UDI’? It is just not going to happen. Not a single SNP politician will support it and we will fast lose public support if we go down that route.
Aye, Hoss, Deputy Dug was like JoLa, but sorted for Helium and Whizz.
@Finlay Farquarson
Well Mags Curran has sold her soul, she might as well go for broke! Still it’s not a healthy thought lol!
Rock
UDI is perfectly legitimate option IF Westminster refuse to recognise a second referendum. IndyRef 2 must, obviously be pursued first as it is by far the best option for both Scotland and the rUK.
Ms Dugdale attacks the SNP on education. What IS the story with the loss of 80,000 college .places? Need an answer to that one for the doorstep.
Yes the GE 2015 “LL” , Lying Literature is already heading thro’ the letter box.
Beakers V SNP leaflet has already been despatched to my mothers in Inverness .
It seams to be full of goody 2 shoes lies of how Beaker has saved us £10 off a tank of Petrol , eh ? WTF ?
SNP failings , underfunding on NHS , eh ? etc etc
I’ll get a read myself on my next visit .
So the factual inexactitudes are only just about to begin .
O/T A work colleague keeps asking when Smurphy is going to be tagged as “turtle” head or Ninja etc on account of , well I’m sure it does not require explaining
I can’t see blue tories in Scotland backing labour at the general election, even if it means defeating the SNP. They have waited a long time for a revival in their fortunes. The party down south sees Labours collapse north of the border as the best time to unite the unionist voice behind them and they will be looking to pick up at least 5 seats, including smurphys.
What they need, in order to do that, is for Labour to whip up the “vote labour to keep the tories out” storm again so they can split the left vote between labour and the resurgent SNP.
I really can’t see them risking a vote on labour in the knowledge that it will bring about a Milliband government if Labour can secure Scotland. Especially so when they really do believe that this is the year they revived their party north of the border(they honestly do believe this!)
I have never countenanced UDI.
I have to admit thereby, that I am conditioned by the legal implications stressed through my UK citizenship. That is where my resolve takes a hit.
But given no alternative; where democracy is being purloined by forces well out-with our sovereign Scots’ control, then I see the need to go for natural justice.
Suggest/strongly recommend the SNP keeps this, as a not too hidden card, awaiting play.
@Rock
Totally agree. A referendum on independence must remain an SNP manifesto commitment until the day a Yes vote has been delivered.
But can we please forget about ‘UDI’? It is just not going to happen. Not a single SNP politician will support it and we will fast lose public support if we go down that route.
I’d argue for a triple layered defence on this one.
Layer one is the argument for home rule. This should be the main card played for the next 4-5 years. This has the widest level of support.
Its almost certainly likely to fall flat on its arse though, because westminster does not like to give powers away. Smith is proof of that.
Layer two is indyref2. This should be the threat to backup the home-rule argument. If westminister won’t give the people of Scotland what was promised, then the people of Scotland should have the right to take what was promised.
Why should Westminster play ball though? If the threat ends at that, they can just refuse to offer another referendum and leave us all to stew in our juices. This is where layer three comes in.
Layer three is the nuclear option. the UDI. The threat alone, when backed up by the SNPs high popularity should be enough to force them to see sense on an indyref2. Its not something that is supposed to be used except in extenuating circumstances, like say if London did to us what Madrid did to Catalonia.
It is important to note that any proposals for change, after the next General Election will nee to be agreed to by the House of Lords. Their interest has already been stirred and resulted in the statement of intent..
The House of Lords Constitutional Committee statement decided Devo-Max would never be offered to Scotland in the event of a No vote. Their position;
”Devolution Max” requires a distinct constitutional process for its achievement. As illustrated by the potential for competing tax regimes within the United Kingdom, such an arrangement for one member of the Union would necessarily have real, deep and immediate consequences for the other members and for the Union as a whole. Properly to secure the legitimate interests of each and all, proposals as to “devolution max” would first have to be developed through intergovernmental negotiations conducted, not just bilaterally with the UK Government, but on an inclusive, multilateral basis across the Union state. Whereas both the UK Government and the Scottish Government have recognised that independence is a Scottish question, “devolution max” is not. Proper constitutional process requires that negotiations involving all parts of the United Kingdom precede any referendum on an agreed scheme of “devolution max.”
William Hague, leader of the House of Commons is to introduce on Tuesday in parliament, three options providing for the introduction of English votes for English MP’s.
It is thought the Lib/Dems have one proposal but Labour have none.
Should be an interesting debate
The House of Lords has absolutely no power. Just a total waste of time and money. It is the people in Scotland who will decide on another Referendum, not politicians. Politicians are supposed to serve the people, Labour/Unionists are a bunch of greedy, murdering liars like the rest of Westminster.
Unionists lying, cheating and murdering to destroy their own Parties. Despicable. No a principle among them. Good riddance.
Luigi says
“Yes, but they are not as powerful as they think (otherwise it would have been 70% NO). They didn’t exactly manage to get SLAB elected in 2011, did they? (and they tried very, very hard).”
But they went beyond trying very very hard during the referendum
and
“For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.”
They crossed a line during the ref, and found they could ACTUALLY get away with it, same with the BBC they realized that in spite of being beyond the pale no one but no one was going to stop them,
We face a far more vicious enemy that the SNP faced in 2011
an enemy who are prepared to go further, tell more lies, promote their agenda more openly, and ignore the cries of the people they disparage, and all people hear is Jim Murphy good SNP bad!
Until we control the airwaves
WE ARE GOING NOWHERE!
Going up in the Polls, despite the Media.
Labour/Unionists liars learn the hard way never trust a Tory. 50% of Scottish voters support Alex Salmond return to Westminster. Jealous, lying Nick Clegg ratings 0% doesn’t.
Revenge is sweet. 7/5/15
Imagine Labour/Unionists uniting with the Tories to destroy their own Party. That’s how stupid they are, not that there was any more proof needed. Voters were told if you vote NO you get nothing and that is exactly what happened. Murphy is a bampot.
Good riddance to the lot of them. Thatcherites who secretly tried to destroy Scotland to line their own pockets. Sanctioning and starving the most vulnerable people. Westminster secrecy and lies.
Scotland would have been Independent years ago, if it wasn’t for Unionist lies.
How much more members can the Unionist Parties lose in Scotland, soon there will be none. Unionists Parties are using Scottish taxpayers money to collude against Scottish interests, as always.
Most of Westminster should be in jail. Murdering, greedy, corrupt, fraudster, child abusing, tax evading liars. Above the Laws that they make. Total Hypocrites.
I’m hoping that the SNP will put forward a radical manifesto that will appeal to the scottish electorate and state that they will support such measures for the whole of the UK. That should do it.
College places, college places. Who gives a damn about that ignorant, little clueless bampot, who has never had a job in it’s life. They have been channelling £Billions out of Scotland for years and wasting it, on illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion. They knew about that because they kept it hidden. Westminster secrecy and lies. Thatcher and the McCrone Report.
They could educate half the world with the money they have wasted, on their illegal wars.
Alex was right, they will be dancing to a Scottish tune. Salmond can out run the lot of them.
Brown and Darling even been had, couldn’t happen to more useless clowns. The two stupid losers. They forgot the basis rule. Never trust a Tory.
So Skeletor lies and says 20,000 and he’s not challenged?
STV and their sponsors – absolutely zero credibility.
A load of filthy lying red tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
Look at Liberal satisfaction with Clegg. That can’t be right?
Good big letter by oor ain Dave McEwan Hill in today’s National.
Labour/Unionists, ‘save the Union’. They couldn’t even save themselves.
McWhirter made a comment on TV last night that calling Murphy a murderer etc is counter productive. Let us just stick to pointing out he was his supporting illegal wars and facilitating rendition and seeing WMD’s where none exists and renewing WMD’s where they do exist in Glasgow’s back yard.
Back to Kezia on College places ,could someone from the SNP PLEASE explain the policy on reducing numbers or at least defend the policy. They are getting an easy ride on this ,the NHS and corporation tax. Give us the answers please!
It’s all coming out now. Like rats in a sack, they can’t wait to leak to the Press to try and save their own skins. Nae chance.
Watched Scotland Tonight with Paul Sinclair really twisting the knife into the already fatally wounded SLAB.Interestingly, he didn’t endorse Murphy, but said he HAD to be the one to turn them around. More to come from him hopefully,as Johann uses him to vent her anger.
Murphy interview was dire with that Gordon Brownesque fake insincere smile. A fair society with limited powers,is he kidding? Putting Scotland first, what about pooling and sharing? Anything less would be greedy and unfair and fail to show solidarity. Is he for real?
I’ll make the decisions, says Jim. Can he confirm who will decide all the forthcoming Westminster candidates then? My recall is that there will be one Jock in the Brown replacement panel.Is he on the same planet?
Finally, and someone else has picked this up, why has Jim started to refer to the House of Commons instead of Westminster?
This man has to be watched very, very carefully, and cannot be trusted to serve the people of Scotland.Rant over for now!
Two thirds of Britons do not support George Osborne’s £30bn additional cuts.
The article also goes on to say:
Come on Alec get in there and give em plenty of welly!
.
Who elected McWhirter? Or any of the rest of the colluding lying Press.
Received a load of cr@p through the door from Michael Moore’s LieDem office in Hawick.
The letter starts off with this ("Tractor" - Ed) blowing his own trumpet and telling folk how, over 17 years, he has helped “many thousands” of his constituents with their problems, “large and small.
But he fails to mention how he helped to destroy the future dreams, health, wealth and happiness of Scotland and her people.
This ("Tractor" - Ed) then goes on to ask us to complete a survey which he has enclosed and can be returned to his office “free of charge” in the pre-paid enclosed envelope.
I shall post some of the questions this LieDem ("Tractor" - Ed) wants us to answer.
__________
btw, Mr.Moore, you are, in my opinion, a filthy ("Tractor" - Ed) to Scotland and i will not be returning any survey. My aim is to see you booted out onto your erse – you will pay the price for your part in the lies and deception served on us by Westminster and the Unionist scum media. You didn’t want to know when i asked you for details and a copy of “The Vow” etc, now its my turn and guess what, i don’t want to know – GTF!
The Murphy/Boyack ‘root & branch review’, the term of Johann Lamont’s leadership (including invitation to Miliband shadow cabinet), the summer disappearance and her subdued contribution to the Referendum, these are all matters that journalists should pursue and explain.
The final week and 48 hours of Johann Lamont’s leadership should be scrutinised and the role of UK Labour and Murphy explained.
Did I just say journalists?
@Famous 15
Anent ‘college places’, there has been a substantial increase in full-time college places since 2011.
Where Deputy Dug (and wee Ruthie) are basing there ‘arguments’ is the reduction in part-time places. This was on the basis that the colleges themselves found some courses to be uneconomical, either because of large drop-off of attendees, or because the same or similar courses were provided elsewhere; see for example link to snp.org where Ruthie was challenged to apologise before Holyrood but, as she never did so, that ‘record’ has never been corrected. There’s so much more to be found by undertaking a search on the SNP’s media page (link to snp.org)
Have you noticed that the three main enemies of Scottish Independence have all banned any right of reply.
The Daily Record has stopped any comments on their website.
BBC Scotland is worse than North Korea when tying to submit any objections.
And Scottish Labour don’t hold public forums anymore. They hold meetings in front of a vetted, handpicked audience.
Unionist democracy in action for all to see.
Macwhirter: calling Murphy a murderer etc is counter productive.
He most certainly has blood on his hands.
OT
By the way for those that do not know the membership numbers for SNP Trade Union group I noticed this comment on Barry Gibbons Channel 4 blog:
Politics is the art of persuasion and MacWhirter is right as some of the more extreme comments on here and social media such as Scum, Traitor and Murderer etc does not persuade any uncommitted person to vote for pro independence parties and may well put sympathetic voters off.
Yes expose Murphy’s inconsistency and double dealing but let’s stick the facts and offer a positive alternative.
I take it the 3% SNP voters who voted for cameron are tories that don’t want labour to get in. Either that or confused.com
The Murphy re-shuffle today will be an interesting piece of work. He says that such a major re-shuffle has never happened anywhere else in the world.
This guy is a fruitcake.
caz-m: at 9:31 am
As far as the NuLabour are concerned has that not been the case since prior to their 1979 election.
Sinky: at 9:43 am
I totally agree. The truth is zany enough with hanging crazy slogans on it.
.
The collage places is a smoke and mirror argument. The labour party are right that many”places” have been lost. What they do not tell you is the balance between part time courses and edutainment courses verses full time vocational courses has been massively altered. The amount of hours education offered is basically the same. So less Zen and the ancient art of flower arranging level two (every second Thursday evening) more cnc control systems mon-Friday.
Kezia Does bang on about the reduction in part time college places, although she rarely mentions the 8,000 increase in full time places in FE.
Included in that 80,000 “places” are very short hobby and interest courses which although nice to have are not, in recession and reduced funding, going to get people back to work.
I am pretty sure that Stu did an analysis of Kezia’s claims last year and, after the rationalisation of colleges and more emphasis on full time courses the net number of teaching hours in Scotland’s FE colleges had only gone done by about 2% or thereabouts. Not the carnage and destruction that Kezia claims.
Pretending you are doing something for the unemployed and untrained by counting extremely short and pretty tangential courses in the numbers of those that have received FE might be the way they do things in Westminster where cooking the books on employment figures is a way of life but I would rather that we cut that out of the equation.
Typical lying journalist – ‘telling the truth is counter-productive’.
The NHS/education sector are as they are because Westminster ConDems elected to protect NHS/Education cut the budget.
Scotland budget has been cut £1.3Billion a year since 2011. Alexander (now squealing like a pig) and Osbourne increase Oil tax revenues 11% (£2Billion a year), now up to 90%. The Oil companies stopped further exploration. Scotland lost £4Billion+ a year, since 2011. Did Osbourne/Alexander do it deliberately to affect the Referendum outcome. More than likely.
Scotland has to make £4Billion repayments on money it doesn’t borrow or spend. Scotland could save £3Billion Trident and a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. Over £10Billion+ . The rest of the UK borrows and spends £100Billion more. (Pro rata £10Billion)
Scotland raises £53Billion. The rest of the UK raises £437Billion, and borrows and spends £100Billion. e.g. HS2 (£70B), Hinkley Point £25B, HS2 £7Billion, Crossrail £20Billion, Thames tidal Tideway sewer £4B, Lohdon Garden Bridge, 3rd London runway etc.
The Scottish Gov has protected NHS/Education as they promised. Increased spending on it. That is why Scotland needs complete fiscal autonomy over taxes and spending. Tax powers are not enough to make a major difference.
Tax revenues in the UK have decreased £110Billion. When the ConDems came to power. Tax revenues were £600Billion they are now £490Billion. They have cut taxes so much there is no enough for essential services. Their plan is to give £20 a week tax breaks, while people would have to pay £25+ a week on private health care.
As I see it, Murphy was sent here by the Union for the Union.
Saving SLAB? – a squirrel, a cover for his real job,
which is to strengthen the Union in Scotland
by undermining the SNP, by building closer links with the Regional Councils, and by promoting the idea of a ‘new Scotland’ – under a ‘new’ Listening Labour & Tory Unionist Party, at some time in the future.
In other words, a continuation of the No Campaign with the same people, the same thinking, the same propaganda machine, and the same strategy. Just substitute Jim Murphy for Gordon Brown. Target – Labour voters and the elderly.
Why? Westminster got such a fright with IndyRef, the Establishment woke up and realised that they must never allow this to happen again.
So they decided to make the No Campaign permanent.
There is nothing bigger on Westminster’s agenda.
All the parties are in it together; they all know that Independence spells mortal danger to the politics industry at WM and it’s charmed life of easy money and a life of luxury.
And with the ever rising membership in the Indy parties, together with very poor poll ratings for the Unionist parties in England, WM knows that the danger from Scotland is far from over.
So far Jim Murphy has just been muddying Scottish waters in an attempt to hide the Union’s immediate purpose, which is to minimise the number of SNP MP’s at Westminster next May 7th. and thereby slow the Independence movement’s momentum.
For Unionist Westminster, their Indy nightmare will start again if current poll predictions come true and dozens of SNP MP’s take their seats in the House of Commons after GE15.
The prospect of Alex Salmond, Stewart Hosie, Angus Robertson and Craig Murray, plus many other Independence-minded MP’s, stirring up the Commons, will cause apoplexy on the Government benches!
Westminster TV could become unmissable!
LibDems sending out lying Literature all over on expenses, of course. Using Public money for corrupt purposes. Squealing like pigs. ‘It wisnae me’. Aye right.
The West Lothian myth. There has never been 50 Scottish MP’s holding the balance of power in Westminster. There might be now. Unionists are squealing like pigs. Democracy for Scotland.
If college places have been cut it is because of Lab/Unionist policies. The bampot should say, ‘College places have been cut because of Unionist policy.’ Same with NHS any cuts come from Westminster. SNP have protected Education/NHS and everyone knows it. If the Unionists want to lie it is up to them. They get caught out all the time.
College places are not an issue compared to sanctioning people and food banks. Cold, hungry people get sick and drop out of education.
Sinky says:
“Politics is the art of persuasion and MacWhirter is right as some of the more extreme comments on here and social media such as Scum, Traitor and Murderer etc does not persuade any uncommitted person to vote for pro independence parties and may well put sympathetic voters off.
Yes expose Murphy’s inconsistency and double dealing but let’s stick the facts and offer a positive alternative.”
___________
Since i’ve used 2 of those words you have used i will assume you are including me in your orders.
Please don’t tell me how to speak or think.
You did not not suggest, you instructed.
If i want to express an opinion about someone or something that is exactly what i will do and last time i checked this is not a dictatorship.
If i feel someone is a ("Tractor" - Ed) that’s exactly what i’ll call them. If i think the Unionist media are scum, that’s exactly what i’ll call them.
“Politics is the art of persuasion” you say, so you telling us that your idea of persuasion is universally successful and the only way?
I object to being dictated to and as i’ve said before i left school some time ago and don’t need any lectures.
Focus on your own game and have a go at me the day you witness me talking to the ordinary man or woman on the street in the same manner as i address Unionist politicians, leaders and media.
And if you think using words such as ‘scum’ and ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ are “extreme” then you are either very intolerant or have led a very sheltered life.
MacWhirter can F off. That emotive enough.
All these unelected ‘journalists’. They want freedom of speech for themselves but want to censor everyone else. While they get paid extortionate salaries to write a load of Pish. Charlatans.
Aye don’t mention the War.
On the Michael Moore LieDem Survey there are 14 questions he wants us to answer and in no particular order here are 4 of them:
(tick appropriate answers)
(12)-Do you support more powers, such as tax raising powers, for the Scottish Parliament?
Yes
No
Don’t Know
(13)-Do you support more local powers for Scottish Borders Council?
Yes
No
Don’t Know
(7)-Do you agree that people in the Borders deserve the same access to NHS services as anyone else?
Yes
No
(8)-Michael Moore is campaigning to end under funding of NHS Borders by the SNP Government. Do you support his campaign?
Yes
No
“BJ says:
15 December, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Has anyone else noticed the resemblance between Blair McDougal and Jackie Bailey!
Is he her son ?”
BJ, have you ever seen them appear together? Could it be they’re the same person?
@ thoughtsofascot
My worry about Indyref2 is that WM will insist on 3 questions, Yes, No and Devo Max which may reduce the Yes vote, allow Devo Max to win and then we will be put off for another few years by vague promises and half-truths.
SNP/YES will have to be very clear on What Devo Max would mean and say UDI will happen unless WM provides the goods.
@ manandboy at 10.02am
Spot on -that is indeed the long term plan. WM/MSM has done everything it can to turn the English electorate against the Scots & to some extent it has worked. They do believe the subsidy myth because that’s all they ever hear from WM.
However, WM also underestimates its English voters-they aren’t as complacent as WM thinks. The problem is that no party has yet provided them with an alternative. For many voters they just opt out of voting altogether. Wrong in my view & Russell Brand doesn’t help by saying don’t vote either. His mantra should be ‘Use your vote-it’s the only weapon you have’
Scotland is awake & my hope is that England & Wales will follow. If SNP can win Scotland at GE15 then UK will see for themselves that they also have been lied to big time for many years. That will help England enormously
Lollysmum I do not believe the subsidy myth .Many yes voters are also being fed propoganda as that is all they hear!!!!
I have written many times about who controls who.
The Saudis are causing havoc with economies across the world
SNP based their Tiger economy on 113 dollars a barrel its now 65 and falling.
Do I believe politicians–no they use whatever they can to misle and SNP are no different nor is the REV who lives in Bath.
I do however support Scotlands attempt to be independant,but need to engage with the No voters as just maybe they have some valid points of view
@Famous 15 I’ve been trying to get an answer to that one as well.
Will need to get more information but Kezia uses that to ‘prove’ that paying for Uni fees for ‘middle class’ kids is one of the reasons for a cut in college places.
However despite the £9k/year in England, they have also cut college funding so it doesn’t compute.
Think some of the places cut were very short term courses as little as weeks, so were designed to make the figures look good but will need to get definitive reasons.
UDI is a non starter for the following reasons:-
Following UDI an I govt. would have to be able to collect the taxes which currently go to WM.
The computer systems to handle this tax collecting are all under the control of WM.
Even if WM were to hand over the necessary systems how would the I Scotttish govt. stop businesses and individuals from sending their taxes and NI to WM?
Taxes are collected in Scotland and sent on. East Kilbride used to collect a lot of Scottish taxes. Other taxes are sent on through City of London HQ’s. They would just be diverted in Scotland to a Scottish Office. Scotland already distributes welfare benefits. HMRC are not fit for purpose. There is a major problem of foreign multinational tax evasion in the UK. City of London Accountancy firms breaking the Law. HMRC will pursue small businesses to death, while colluding with major tax evasion. The UK Banking sector is a disgrace and has been for a long time because of lack of proper regulation.
What happened to my last post etc
So i’m surmising Scottish Labours English branch office manager wont be coming up to Scotland pre GE to rally the troops, whats the point? as he has no power or influence over new Scottish Labour. Can see the phone call going something like… Ed “Hi Jim”, “i’ll come up to north Britain and rally the troops a week before the GE” Murphy “FFS don’t do that boss, you’ll undermine my illusion, iv’e told the idiots in Scotland i’m the boss, and i have complete control over everything, and i don’t need your permission for anything, if you come up here you’ll give the game away and make me look stupid..er”
Chic McGregor,
“UDI is perfectly legitimate option IF Westminster refuse to recognise a second referendum.”
thoughtsofascot,
“Layer three is the nuclear option. the UDI. The threat alone, when backed up by the SNPs high popularity should be enough to force them to see sense on an indyref2”
IF they refuse to let us hold a referendum any time we want, or IF they refuse to recognise a Yes vote, only then we should mention UDI.
Until then, we are a democratic country and we should not mention UDI. They will use it to discredit us.