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Winning back Scotland

Posted on January 18, 2020 by

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    1. 18 01 20 07:57

      Winning back Scotland | speymouth

    1179 to “Winning back Scotland”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      Ah good I have told both, along with others what I think of there ideas and chances of Labour leadership.
      It is zero.
      Cairns has them well characterized.

    2. John Thomson says:

      Hands behind back very casual, love to see what he is thinking. Ooooh what a lovely pair of?

    3. winifred mccartney says:

      Brilliant – and that’s the best that labour has!!!

      Shows how much they know/care about winning back anything especially Scotland.

    4. Rick H Johnston says:

      What gets me about this is the comments about the new Labour leader ‘having to come from the North’
      Seems Scotland doesn’t qualify geographically. Nae wonder Gordon Brown is back on the scene like King Canute trying to put off the inevitable.
      Meanwhile Murray trying to provide a tartan tinge to the fig leaf.

    5. Robert Louis says:

      Excellent. This cartoon absolutely nails the condescending, UNEDUCATED and PIG-IGNORANT attitude of those Labour ‘leadership; candidates. And they have the temerity to call themselves ‘socialists’. As regards Scotland, they all sound like fascists.

      Who would have imagined that in 2020, we would see a labour ‘leadership’ candidate openly praising the wanton brutality heaped upon Catalunya’s people by the fascist Spanish Guardia Civil (Franco’s henchmen). The demolition of democracy, and there in the background is LABOUR applauding. Not only does it demonstrate a mind boggling lack of knowledge of Catalunya, but it also shows how utterly, utterly ill-informed politicians in England are regarding Scottish politics.

      The only narrow-minded, extremist nationalism I can see anywhere within the United Kingdom, is BRITISH Nationalism. Union jackery, writ large. The whole freaking world can see it, except the Labour party dimwits.

      They ‘won’t allow’ independence. They want to ‘crush’ independence. They want to force Scots to adopt English values and policies. But more than that, these so-called ‘socialist’ would rather have Scotland endure yet another five years of unelected, hated, extreme Tory rule, than let us run our own affairs. These Labour candidates are not so much democracy deniers as they are reality deniers.

      Labour will remain irrelevant, until such times as they actually stand up for Scotland and its absolute sovereign rights. The days of ‘forever’ british rule’ are long gone. Labour can either get with the programme, or continue being laughed at. Andrew Neil even said of one of the Labour candidates in interview this week that she sounded just like Boris Johnson. Yet still they plough on with the same irrelevant, outdated attitude to Scotland, parroting the Tory soundbites.

      Labour says that it is trying to learn from its epic defeat in December, yet from a Scottish perspective, they have learnt nothing at all. And, to top it all, they have yet again wheeled out that irrelevant, lying, failed Prime Minister, Broon, FFS. For a f***ing ‘intervention’. The real irony being, that doon in London town, they actually all think Scots respect the clown. The man is a joke, and is seen as such.

      Seriously Labour, sniff the effing coffee eh?

    6. Ottomanboi says:

      If you’re going to do a bit of civil disobedience then the 31st is the perfect day.

    7. Robert Louis says:

      Ottomanboi, at 0847am

      Their is a petition, already underway to keep the EU flag outside OUR parliament. They should take the jack down instead.

      Link for petition is at the end of the article in the National.

    8. Juteman says:

      Some ‘Scots’ folk will know all this, yet still vote No.
      Have they no sense of shame?

    9. Ian Foulds says:

      Robert Louis at 8.36am

      ‘….They ‘won’t allow’ independence. They want to ‘crush’ independence.’

      Brings to mind that part in the British National anthem about crushing us.

    10. Bill McLean says:

      O/T I see in the National that Angus Robertson is trailing the 2021 referendum again. In my view waiting for the 2021 HE is extremely foolish – Westminster will have tightened the chains long before then!

    11. Dan says:

      Oor pussy suffering the Labour pains o’ a richt pair of fannies.

    12. Robert Louis says:

      Ian at 0911,

      Yip. And for those unaware of the actual racist, anti-Scottish lyrics of the English National anthem, here they are;

      ‘Lord grant that Marshal Wade
      May by thy mighty aid
      Victory bring.
      May he sedition hush,
      And like a torrent rush,
      Rebellious Scots to crush.
      God save the Queen’.

      Ahhhh…. what a lovely ‘national’ anthem.

    13. Michael Cooper says:

      They’re speaking to the English shires. This is a message which will go down well there and they no longer have anything to lose in Scotland except Murray and that’s no loss really.

      Expect that post Corbyn british labour will lurch more openly back to shire toryist message again with it’s usual sprinkling of traditional tub thumping working class rhetoric. Bashing the seaties goes down well in the shires but won’t do them any good. England locked into one of it’s natural tory phases for the foreseeable.

    14. Ottomanboi says:

      @Robert Louis
      Sign the petition and ceremonially burn that Union rag.
      Can see the Daily Mail headline already……
      We are Scots, we are Europeans, we are citizens of the World!

    15. Macart says:

      That’s a keeper. 🙂

    16. thingy says:

      You Scoth… Scoo… Cat…

      You thugs…

    17. Capella says:

      There was one candidate who supported Indyref2, Clive Lewis, but he got little support from the PLP. England needs a new party to represent the people. Hamish is in the fortunate position of already having one.

    18. ahundredthidiot says:

      Bill MacLean @9;13

      yes…..unless we cause a distraction… our SNP MPs walking out on 1st Feb and not going back.

      The (largely English) backlash will be fantastic and astounding – Piers will be telling everyone on GMB the whinging Scots should just bugger off, (their comedians have already started this btw) and the patience of normal mainstream commentators will be pushed to the very limits, where mistakes get made.

      We then capitalise – convince the folks living here that they are not wanted by the ‘Union’. more will turn, we make it us against them.

      And we need to start repeating a message – we’re not too stupid, too wee, too poor – leaving the UK is in fact an exercise in self-preservation.

    19. Breeks says:

      There is a profound disconnect between the British Establishment and Scotland.

      I don’t find it surprising that the intake of new recruits to a burgeoning facist Establishment is so dismal. Who, with any brains would want to swell their ranks? Fascists typically jail intellectuals, they don’t recruit them to Management.

      But this British Establishment believes Scotland actually listens to Gordon Brown and respects him. This British Establishment thinks Scotland hangs on every word which Ruth Davidson says. They somehow think Murphy is seen as a man of integrity in Scotland. I thought this was just piss-taking, but now I think they’re serious. The Establishment genuinely thinks these farts have no smell.

      The British Establishment cooks the books of the Scottish economy, hiding Scotland’s wealth with ex-regio landfall of our oil, and Scottish exports funnelled through English ports counted not being attributed to Scotland. To paper over the con, they hand us GERS. A tissue of lies which wouldn’t pass it’s O grade Arithmetic because it hadn’t shown it’s workings and the sums just don’t add up.

      Scotland’s deficit is another spectacular deceit. Let me quote Tartan Cybernatter from Twitter because he sums it up perfectly…

      I have £100
      I give it to my next door neighbour
      He gives me £60 back & keeps £40 for expenses
      He buys a lawnmover for £200
      He now says I owe him £160
      I have a deficit of £160
      I don’t have a lawn.

      Scotland is not being Governed. We are victims of the longest running heist in history, and our society has been peppered with colonial infiltrators for decades, and our National narrative about what matters in Scotland has been distorted and manipulated for over 300 years, but it has never been more perfidious and manipulative than it is now. We suffer indoctrination on an epic scale.

      Scotland is a Nation where nothing we are told “officially” is real. It’s all bent gear. We are nothing to Westminster except their golden goose which must never become aware of their malicious insatiable greed.

      We have to see this through. Scotland must escape this bloated parasite which sucks the life from our Nation. If democracy fails us, and it’s beginning to look like it has, then we pick up and move on. If it’s Civil Disobedience next, then so be it. We must have each other’s backs. The smears and arrests have already started, unless you actually believe Alex Salmond is a rapist. We must all be ready for what happens next, because Civil Disobedience is the first rung on a very short ladder. There can be no turning back.

      We need impartial witnesses here in Scotland. Here on our streets and embedded amongst us. Neutral observers and a foreign press corp to bear witness to what happens here. Be aware, if that Press Corp isn’t European, it will most likely be right wing American, and it won’t just be our food standards which need chlorination.

    20. Fixitfox says:

      Nail on head Chris. The cup of Labour nonsense for you to satirise is forever running over. Go Hamish.

    21. Robert Louis says:

      Bill Mclean at 0831,

      Indeed. He makes the assertion that if the SNP win a majority in 2021, then Boris will be unable to resist a referendum. Yet Angus does not go on to explain why having won 81% of Scottish seats just a few weeks ago CAN be ignored, yet somehow magically in 2021, winning a majority of seats CAN’T be ignored. It is a ridiculous statement for Angus to make.

      It is hogwash. The Scotgov have all the mandates they need. It is nowe up to them to assert Scotland’s rights, not just keep putting it back on a ‘future agenda’.

      And here’s the real point, if the SNP did win a majority in 2021 and Boris said NO again, what would the SNP do that they cannot do right now. They have a mandate, they do not need another. They need to get the f*** on with it, and stop being so freaking subservient to London’s pretendy made-up rules. Now is not the time for fearties.

    22. admiral says:

      I’m sorry I can’t do archiving thingummy, but I’m surprised that no-one on here (and in the wider independentista commenting community) has picked up on this absolute comedy classic from Tim Farron MP.

    23. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 0943am,

      I like the text example (from Tartan cybernatter) you used for explaining the imaginary ‘Scottish deficit’.

      Worth re-stating, since it is so good.

      “I have £100
      I give it to my next door neighbour
      He gives me £60 back & keeps £40 for expenses
      He buys a lawnmower for £200
      He now says I owe him £160
      I have a deficit of £160
      I don’t have a lawn.

      Scotland does NOT have a deficit, since the Scottish Government has to (and always has done) balance the books every single year.

      The deficit belongs to Westminster.

    24. Dr Jim says:

      Excellent representation of both these Labour candidates

      Isn’t it funny though how none of these Labour people are complaining about the Tories basically *allowing* the Northern Irish to have the opportunity to leave the UK because it was the only way Johnson could get EU agreement
      yet they’re terribly incensed over the idea that Scotland could go, and here’s them talking about solidarity and families of nations

      They must not consider Northern Ireland their family eh, or could it be some other reason why they’re so desperate to cling on to Scotland as long as the oil remains

      Maybe Scotland should hire *experts* to keep telling England and the English the oil will run out a week on Tuesday, you’ve never seen a headline like that in the English versions of the newspapers, ever

    25. Betty Boop says:

      @ Breeks, 9:43am
      @ Robert Louis, 9:54am

      Thanks for posting that simple deficit explanation. That should be easy enough for folks to remember instead of activists who think they have to answer every single issue to justify our existence and getting tied in knots in the process.

    26. call me dave says:

      Excellent cartoon. Hamish is back.

      Aye! Isobel Fraser this morning five times asked the Scottish minister…

      “But is it enough” on 50,000 new affordable housing targets and “is it enough that £1.2bn on new initiative to bring 30,000 Scottish kids and families out of poverty.

      Then asked Jim from Russell Trust immediately afterwards in another interview “Jim is this SG money enough”!!

      Jim was a bit careful to follow that line and said it was a good start with many good initiatives but we can always do more!

      So there it is folks it’s never enough…suck it up SG!
      I see a BBC shortbread trend being put into place.

      But never mind, lots of shiny bead money winging it’s way to Scotland soon in Union Jack envelopes to buy off the voters for 2021 election. 🙁

    27. David Gray says:

      People need to stop the theme of withdrawing our MP’s from WM. We can only withdraw 48 of 59 representatives which leaves 11 to represent us. What those 11 say or decide will become the views of Scotland.

    28. Breeks says:

      Jesus wept.

      I’ve just caught up with Angus Robertson flying the kite that a 2020 Referendum won’t happen… Pete Wishart must have been busy.

      How about I fly a kite? If Scotland is Brexited and Scottish Sovereignty overruled, we impeach the Scottish Government for idly allowing it to happen.

    29. Does anyone know what is Sir Keir Starmer KCB QC opinion on us vile,ungrateful Scots,

      or is he doing the,

      ` It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.` routine.

    30. Dr Jim says:

      @admiral 9:48am

      Aye England can’t get on with defeating the Tories until the SNP are crushed in Scotland

      Tim Farron is like all Liberal Democrats, a mental, aaand particularly creepy, his answer,I have warm feelings for some SNP colleagues and we love you but you must die for England to thrive

      Sounds kinda similar to 1930s Germany, I wonder if he hears what he’s saying

    31. Al-Stuart says:

      Thank you Chris,

      Spot on cartoon.

      I can name Lisa Nasty, but the other one is another of Labour’s self indulgent leader merry-go-round of political PC death.

      Tragically, the Labour Party of England couldn’t give a rat’s turd about condemning Scotland to 18 years’ of lethal, cripple-killing Tory austerity. It happened with Thatcher. Red Tory Blair followed. Cameron took up the unelected governorship of Scotland. With incredulity, it is happening with Bozo the clever clown. Labour’s political death throws are inflicting their Scottish leaderless nightmare on our country via Westminster’s Raj and Sir Alistair Jackass.

      The Labour Party of England and membership voters could study the Scottish SLAB accounting unit’s descent into political Hell. Amazing how many forgettable no-marks have “led” SLAB in Scotland…

      – Donald Dewar (7 May 1999 – 11 October 2000).

      – Henry McLeish (27 October 2000 – 8 November 2001) (Acting 11 Oct 2000 – 27 Oct 2000).

      – Cathy Jamieson (8 November 2001 – 22 November 2001) (Acting).

      – Jack McConnell (22 November 2001 – 15 August 2007).

      – Cathy Jamieson (15 August 2007 – 14 September 2007) (Acting).

      – Wendy Alexander (14 September 2007 – 28 June 2008).

      – Cathy Jamieson (28 June 2008 – 13 September 2008) (Acting).

      – Iain Gray (13 September 2008 – 17 December 2011).

      – Johann Lamont (17 December 2011 – 24 October 2014).

      – Jackie Baillie (24 October 2014 – 13 December 2014) (Acting).

      – Kezia Dugdale (13 December 2014 – 13 June 2015 (Leader in the Parliament).

      – Iain Gray (13 June 2015 – 15 August 2015) (Acting).

      – Kezia Dugdale (15 August 2015 – 29 August 2017).

      – Alex Rowley (29 August 2017 – 15 November 2017) (Acting Deputy Leader).

      – Jackie Baillie (15 November 2017 – 18 November 2017) (Acting).

      – Richard Leonard (18 November 2017 – ).

      – Were’s Waldo ( 1st April 2020 -).

      There is a moral in this list of decrapitude somewhere. But as most politicians are amoral, goodness knows where it is.

      Good luck to England and the rotting stump of Labour with their PC leader – herding cats into cabinet whilst the country’s poorest and most vulnerable are killed off by the self-serving millionaires.

      Studying that mind numbingly long list of Scottish Labour “leaders” who failed, how can England’s 90% share of the Labour Party NOT see how selfish and stupid they are being?

    32. Sharny Dubs says:

      Are we,

      Big enough?
      Ugly enough?
      Angry enough?


    33. Famous15 says:

      Re Tim Farron.I trust Stu will be sending a stiff letter to the Guardian debunking this nonsense. Stu has explained many times, Labour’s Scottish results have rarely if ever decided a UK election. Labour only have to win in England to be in government, Scotland does not affect that. And folks that is one of the best reasons to get the hell out of this unequal Union. The Fibdems lie again.

    34. HYUFD says:

      Famous15 Not quite, Labour only won a UK wide majority in 1964 and most seats in February 1974 thanks to Scottish MPs. Without Scottish MPs the Tories would also have won a majority in 2010 and 2017

    35. William Habib Steele says:

      Usually on ly the first verse of the British ( =English) National Anthem is played we should not sing or stand. We should take a leaf out of Colin Kaepernick’s book and “Take a Knee”!

    36. Orri says:

      Taking a knee is actually a form of respect.

    37. Colin Alexander says:

      How the GERS figures are worked out, fully explained:

    38. Orri says:

      The only way withdrawal from Westminster would work is for SNP MPs to stand for re-election on a platform of an overall majority of MPs from Scotland, 30 or more, being a vote for independence.

    39. Gary45% says:

      Brilliant Chris.
      I remember an old saying from my “yoof”.
      The term “haud it and daud it” comes to mind, this would describe this two cheeks from the same erse.
      I thought Philips was alright a while back, but she’s just another lackey, speaking of which looks like the “masters” will get “their man” in control of Labour.

    40. Grouse Beater says:

      Another fine cartoon, Chris. (You’re wasted here.) Happy to retweet it because I believe Nandy is’doubling-down’ on her assertion violence is justified to pacify belligerent Scots. She thinks it worked in India, or something like it – only heard second-hand.

      Meanwhile, as you love the movie ‘2017’:

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘2017’ – a review:

    41. Bob Mack says:

      Its just out in the open now, instead of hidden by pretendy bonds of unity.

      Great toon Chris.

    42. kapelmeister says:

      NOW That’s What I Call Broontervention! #157

    43. HYUFD says:

      Orri In which case if most Scottish voters still voted for Unionist parties as they did last month then Boris would ignore the SNP declaration of independence and impose direct rule over Scotland

    44. dakk says:

      I recall Stuart proving that even the paltry two occasions when Labour’s Scottish seats resulted in a Labour government, it was not a functional government and required another election which resulted in the Labour seats in Scotland being irrelevant to the political outcome.

    45. robertknight says:

      Robert Louis @9:47


      Worse – beginning to look like a bunch of toom tabards and troughers.

      Where the SNP and IndyRef2 are concerned, it’s beginning to like the joke about a sign outside a pub proclaiming “Free Beer Tomorrow!”. Go back the following day and…

      I’m warming to the idea of forming a human chain around the flagpoles at Holyrood on 31st January. Anyone got a sound system to blast out “Ode to Joy” at 11pm?

    46. manandboy says:


      Labour’s view of Scots is simply the same well established English colonial view of indigenous nations – an obstacle to English exploitation /theft of their resources & wealth.

      Colonial England is without doubt, evil England – with its long history of invading, killing, deceiving, suppressing, stealing, brainwashing, enslaving – and then lying about it, acting as if it never happened.

      Is it any wonder English propaganda is on such an enormous scale. It’s because it has to be, to cover up the enormity of England’s crimes against humanity.

      And they’re still at it.

      The English Establishment is simply well dressed, well spoken evil, behind a veil of constant propaganda to hide it all.

      The modern equivalent is drugged rape. Scotland is a classic case. No voters have still to realise they are victims.

      Brainwashing by the English Ruling Class is big business not only in Scotland, but throughout the UK, and indeed the rest of the world.

    47. stonefree says:

      The one with the tonfa, is just going to end up hurting herself

    48. schrodingers cat says:

      it has already been pointed out that these labour leader hopefuls are playing to an english gallery, the tories have moved to a one nation english nationalism for the same reason.

      this state of affairs is entirely our doing 🙂 money, time and energy spent trying to convince the scots to vote for them is now seen as a complete and futile waste.

      but it does show just how little understanding westminster has of affairs north of the border. indeed, while the blatent anti scottish rhetoric is their reaction, an attempt to “cock a snook” directly at us, it misses its mark by a country mile and hits the scottish unionists square in the face.

      this contempt doesnt damage our cause in the slightest, it only confirms what we have always known. but it does alienate scottish unionist supporters. thats why they hate us so much. they blame us for this state of affaires. 🙂

      the stage is now set, the direction of travel is now irreversable.

      bring it on!

    49. Republicofscotland says:

      Very true Chris another belter.


      Well English isolationist nationalism, is about to peak, as the Brexiteers triumphalism comes to the fore. Hundreds of thousands of pounds have been crowd funded to make Big Ben bong, even though its more likely that a recording will be broadcast instead of the actual bell ringing.

      A countdown clock will be projected onto Big Ben to countdown the hours to the exit point on the 31st of January. According Farage a huge party has been arranged with music and speakers to celebrate their triumph over the EU.

      Of course North of the border it will be a day of mourning, and God only knows what EU citizens living in the UK will make of it, apart from feeling frightened and unwanted, and unsure of what their future holds in the UK.

    50. robertknight says:


      I’m warming to the idea of forming a human chain around the flagpoles at Holyrood on 31st January. Anyone got a sound system to blast out “Ode to Joy” at 11pm?

      I wonder what our fellow EU citizens would make of that?

    51. Ian Foulds says:

      Slightly off topic –

      Two side issue suggestions to help move things along –

      1 Support, in any way, for English independence, to help them throw off the shackle of having Scotland in ‘their’ Union.

      2 Consideration of very civilised civil disobedience, in order that we can make things so tiresome for the relevant authorities, that they also pressurise their masters to accede to our/their Independence.

    52. Doug says:

      @Robert Louis & Bill Mclean

      Agree with both of you. Angus Roberson’s article is one of the most disappointing pieces I’ve ever read. If the FM’s response this month is anything other than a 2020 referendum it will be a severe kick in the guts for the pro-indy movement. Does the SNP want to make us all as gutless as they are?

    53. Dr Jim says:

      News from the BBC: Nicola Sturgeon won’t be leader of the SNP in 2021, the Alex Salmond trial outcome will devastate the SNP, Labour will win Scotland in 2021, Nicola Sturgeon knows she can’t win an Indyref even if she was allowed to have one which she won’t be anyway

      So there’s the Johnson Unionist plan laid out folks, read all about it coming soon to a Unionist rag near you for the next as long as they can keep it up

      The same tactic the British Empire have always used, *destabilisation* definition:(upset a region or system)to cause unrest or instability

      It’s unsurprising Johnson would choose this method as his historical memories are likely to be selectively the winning bits and forgetting that eventually they lost the Empire by doing that very thing, because people got more pissed off with England, not less, or became more encouraged to support them

      We find them here, we find them there, we find the subversives everywhere

    54. Ian Foulds says:

      robertknight says:
      18 January, 2020 at 11:56 am

      I’m warming to the idea of forming a human chain around the flagpoles at Holyrood on 31st January. Anyone got a sound system to blast out “Ode to Joy” at 11pm?

      I wonder what our fellow EU citizens would make of that?

      This might have mileage.

    55. Willie says:

      Labour devastated in Scotland to one solitary MP and devastated in England.

      They’ll not be beating the crap out of anyone as the remaining rump of a once was party tears itself.

      They’ll not be back.

    56. Dr Jim says:

      It’s still possible the EU flag coming down may not happen because the SNP and the Greens are challenging Ken McIntosh’s kangaroo court committee where both SNP and Greens voted against this but were outvoted by all three Unionist parties

      Just like the Smith Commission

      You’ve got to say, so much for the pretendy pro EU Liberal Democrats, when it comes down to it their Tory colours shine right through

    57. manandboy says:

      Chunky Mark on Scotland’s oil.

      The comments are well worth reading.

      Exploitation of Scotland through suppression and political manipulation. Don’t be ridiculous!

      Don’t you know that Scotland’s educated classes believe that Scotland is poor and unable to maintain itself, and has to rely on the kindness and generosity of England’s rich aristocracy.

    58. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Dear Mr Gray – how can eleven Scottish Unionist become the “voice” of anything in Westminster when forty-eight are making absolutely no impact whatsoever at the moment.

      I want those Scottish MPs back home, campaigning hard and making-the-case for Independence directly to the people.Talk about a “wasted asset” – it’s verging on the criminally fucking negligent.

    59. Dr Jim says:

      I favour our MPs remaining at Westminster being abused every day and being seen to be abused as they keep repeating over and over and over that Boris Johnson and his crew are despots and democracy deniers on human rights to self determination a principle they signed up to in order to be a member of the United Nations

      I wouldn’t want the job for any money but if they’re prepared to take the abuse and do it

    60. schrodingers cat says:

      I want those Scottish MPs back home, campaigning hard and making-the-case for Independence directly to the people

      i think we are getting very close to this point

    61. Gfaetheblock says:


      Is it not:

      I have £100
      I give it to my next door neighbour
      He gives me a proportion of back to spend on the things I want, and keeps a proportion to spend on things we both need but I have limited influence on how he spends it
      I receive goods and services valuing £107

    62. HYUFD says:

      Manandboy We all have to reduce our use of fossil fuels like oil globally and replace them with renewables to tackle climate change and Scotland is no exception,a majority of UK energy now comes from renewable and nuclear energy and that will continue

    63. Gfaetheblock says:

      The statement above is disagreeable to many and ok for others, but the quote you used is a bit tiresome. If you can make the case for indy on my version, then there will be a better debate

    64. Stoker says:

      Another great cartoon, Chris, thank you. 🙂

      Scottish MP’s need to either walk out and return home pointing to the democratic deficit and the obnoxious BritNat arrogance and disrespect they experience in Westminster or Immediately begin a constant campaign of disobedience and disruption.

      Either system will focus the worlds political spotlight on Scotland’s situation with London. And either one of these tactics will get them my general election vote back. I’m not participating in ‘UK’ elections anymore unless they do because otherwise it is utterly pointless.

    65. schrodingers cat says:

      james kelly raised £6,026 on a crowd fund of £4000.

      i would encourage you to continue to donate more. it is no accident that no scottish poll has been carried out by anyone since friday the 13th.

      it is the polls that will inform us of what we do next

    66. schrodingers cat says:


    67. admiral says:

      HYUFD says:
      18 January, 2020 at 12:29 pm
      Manandboy We all have to reduce our use of fossil fuels like oil globally and replace them with renewables to tackle climate change and Scotland is no exception,a majority of UK energy now comes from renewable and nuclear energy and that will continue

      Renewable energy that Scotland produces a disproportionately high amount of, and the country which has the highest renewable energy potential in Europe…

    68. schrodingers cat says:

      Scotland is no exception,a majority of UK energy

      the english are climate deniers, they just elected a gov full of them

      the majority of renewables in the uk are in scotland

    69. James says:

      HYFUD talking complete bollocks again. *sigh*

    70. Davie Oga says:

      Re: EU flag

      The presiding officer should be removed from his position and replaced with a Slab MSP who supports democracy, and the sovereignty of the Scottish people. Time to to end the cosy parliamentary relationships and deliver independence. Its valid and acceptable to argue for the union, but its not acceptable to block the Scottish people’s democratic choice. Time for colonial minded unionists to be removed from positions of influence. The presiding officer can be removed and replaced with two majority motions.

      Rule 3.5 Removal of the Presiding Officer and deputy Presiding Officers

      1. A member may by motion propose that the Presiding Officer or a deputy Presiding Officer be removed from office. The motion is valid only if it is seconded by another member.

      2. The Presiding Officer or deputy Presiding Officer is removed from office if the Parliament so decides. Such a decision shall, if taken by division, require an absolute majority

    71. Dr Jim says:

      The majority of Scotlands energy comes from renewables @a constant 75% over 52 weeks, in the winter months it has reached 140% with the excess being diverted to the North of England at a cost to the Scottish taxpayer

      France offered Scotland a deal on electricity and were prepared to bear the cost of cable laying to Europe, the UK intervened and said no

      England’s renewable record is appalling at only a constant 42% of its energy and efforts by Boris Johnson to exclude Scotland’s First Minister from the COP 26 conference will not prevent her from revealing that fact in public, of course the conference already knows this but much of the public do not

      The COP conference is only being held in Scotland soley because of Nicola Sturgeon and Scotlands record and efforts in this area, Johnson would do well to remember this if he continues his efforts to have her excluded, indeed he may even find himself excluded by his own stupidity

    72. RobertTheTruth says:

      My goodness Dr Jim you have been rampaging unrestrained across these pages these past few days. However I have to disagree with you about Nicola Sturgeon.

      Nicola Sturgeon is not showing good leadership now.

      She was a good Lieutenant, a tenacious debater on televised debates. She has made a good case with sound bites and trite cliches about why Scotland should be independent. We know she hated Thatcher. We know she joined the SNP as a teenager. She didn’t find her way to Independence the way Jimmy Reid or even Alex Salmond did. She emerged fully immersed as a product of the same party for all of her adult life.

      Now we would think that was weird if she was a Tory or a SLab or a Scientologist or a Seventh Day Adventist but for some reason someone who has never doubted a party for the whole of their adult life is seen as open to different ways of doing things. Weird , eh?

      She is a slick performer but get her on to the Economic case and she flounders. Even though she practiced law for a whole 2 years after graduating she has dismissed a legal challenge although some voices now say there may such grounds. Maybe Joanna Cherry is making her feel threatened after all? Her one tactic is to keep saying to Boris Johnston that he should play nice.

      ‘Subversives here, there and everywhere’. Like Alex Salmond or Charles Stewart Parnell? Subversives are what we need. Not blind allegiance to a leader who is stuck in a rut and leading us no where.

      And people who don’t go along with the Sturgeon knows best are once again smeared on here and their desire for Independence questioned. When she goes off to her next job at the UN as the spokeswomen for Trans rights will you admit you were wrong or will you still be muttering away about how everyone else who can see through the facade and the inadequacies has let you down?

    73. Dr Jim says:

      Who is the most popular person in the UK?
      You won’t be surprised to learn that it’s David Attenborough, and guess what he thinks of Boris Johnson and his party’s policies on climate change, Yep, you guessed right

    74. winifred mccartney says:

      According to the National this morning Andy Wightman is reported to have said in a tweet on Thursday that the decision was unanimous about the EU flag.

    75. Willie says:

      Dr Jim, whatever comes out in the Alex Salmond trial will not devastate the SNP or the desire for independence.

      Alex is but one man and a man we all owe a debt of gratitude to. Sex scandal is as you intone the oldest trick in the book – as those with some Irish history will know from the Charles Stewart Parnell affair.

      With the media onboard, and especially the London Times, it done for the man but it didn’t stop Irish independence.

      But yes, folks will get well pissed off. The Salmond trial will go into wall to wall media overdrive.

      This place is going to get nastier before it gets better. But to reflect Charles Stewart Parnell it won’t stop the march of a nation.

      Fuck them. They will not win!

    76. James says:


      England and the rest of the UK are and always have been perfectly capable of electing a Labour -or Tory – government if they want one, whatever Scotland does.

    77. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert The Truth

      If you actually knew anything I’d take you seriously but you’re just another person who throws insults at those with a different view like all subversives and Unionists who demand their way with no exceptions but actually support nothing but the subversion for its own sake

    78. Dr Jim says:

      @winifred mccartney 12:54pm

      The votes cast and by whom were reported in the National and according to the paper Andy Wightman voted against its removal as did Sandra White, I can’t imagine the National got this wrong, I haven’t seen anything else about this, I’ll go off and have another look around

    79. Golfnut says:

      @ Gfaetheblock.

      I would really like to see your breakdown of goods and services.

    80. Mike d says:

      Scotland and the rest of the uk are 3rd world countries compared to other european ones. Boarded up high st shops,charity shops,pot holed roads,public services cut to the bone.for the love of god scotland WTFU and get us out of this misery thats coming.we absolutely cannot do any worse ourselves.

    81. manandboy says:

      HYUFD says at 12:29 pm

      “Manandboy We all have to reduce our use of fossil fuels like oil globally and replace them with renewables to tackle climate change and Scotland is no exception,a majority of UK energy now comes from renewable and nuclear energy and that will continue”

      Thanks for your comments, HYUFD, and of course I agree that the use of fossil fuels must be reduced but not stopped altogether, the one exception being unprocessed coal.

      Even in an extended climate crisis the extensive use of oil and oil by-products will guarantee Scotland a healthy income to add to Scotland’s almost unlimited renewable energy capacity. An independent Scotland will be wealthy. Full stop.

    82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Chris Cairns –

      Congrats on another fine cartoon! Your caricatures just get more and more lifelike.


      Hi robertknight at 11:34 am

      You typed,
      “I’m warming to the idea of forming a human chain around the flagpoles at Holyrood on 31st January. Anyone got a sound system to blast out “Ode to Joy” at 11pm?”

      Like this…

      Or like this?

    83. Ottomanboi says:

      The Scottish, BritState and EU flags fly outside the Holyrood parliament.
      Three flags too many.
      The removal of the offending symbol would have resonance greater than symbolism.
      Scotland’s case would go viral.
      An opportunity presents. Exploit it.
      No more niceness.

    84. Ottomanboi says:

      When Scotland turns nasty, then it will get attention. At the moment the country can be ignored by the functionaries of the British state because there’s just nothing to fear.
      Time there was.

    85. schrodingers cat says:


      what do you propose? more empty rhetoric?

    86. Davie Oga says:

      Removing the Union flag after a democratic vote isn’t empty rhetoric. Nor is removing their biased presiding officer. Empty rhetoric is “Scotland will not be taken out of the EU against its will”, asking Westminster for a referendum, and when the inevitable refusal comes, going la di da, vote for us in 2021.

    87. CameronB Brodie says:

      I wasn’t overstating the case by suggesting the British political process is now broken beyond repair. Social democracy insists on a legal respect for difference, diversity, equality and justice. British constitutionalism, not so much. These circumstances will continue until the electorate learn how to use the law in their own defense.

      It would also help if the electorate learnt to recognise illiberal government when they see it.

      The Contemporary Crisis of
      Constitutional Democracy

      The growth of constitutional democracy has been a remarkable feature of the last 30 years, but during the last decade it has suffered a dramatic decline. That decline is marked less by constitutional democracies being overthrown than by an increase in regimes that retain the formal institutional trappings while flouting the norms and values on which constitutional democracies are based.

      This process of constitutional degradation is the subject of two recent books that together present the most comprehensive evaluation available on the current state of constitutional democracy. In this review article, the findings and analysis presented in Graber, Levinson and Tushnet’s Constitutional Democracy in Crisis? and Ginsburg and Huq’s How to Save a Constitutional Democracy are examined and appraised.

      The article argues that solutions to the contemporary crisis cannot be found only by strengthening liberal institutions; to survive, constitutional democracy must also seek to reinvigorate its democratic aspirations.

      constitutional theory, constitutional law, democracy, freedom

    88. Jock McDonnell says:

      Oh, there’s been an intervention. How now brown vow ?

    89. cirsium says:

      @Robert Louis, 9.47am
      And here’s the real point, if the SNP did win a majority in 2021 and Boris said NO again, what would the SNP do that they cannot do right now. They have a mandate, they do not need another. They need to get the f*** on with it,

      Agree. Use the mandate now.

    90. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Regarding our wonderful official national anthem, your regular reminder that the last Labour govt looked into whether the ‘Rebellious Scots to crush’ verse should be removed for its offensiveness and decided Nah, it’s fine.


      I’ve been among the most pro-SNP people here and elsewhere, but Angus Robertson’s National piece today has me wobbling for the first time. The only way Holyrood 2021 is an acceptable target is if an actual date has been set before the election for #indyref2, preferably weeks after the election, or if the election itself is a plebiscite on independence.

      But Robertson’s piece feels instead like softening us up for disappointment soon from Nicola.

    91. sassenach says:

      I support the SNP and their aim of Independence, and I am willing to wait until the 1st Feb to see if there is anything further they have planned.

      So far it’s been a mess, not of the SNP’s making, but we need to see the clear way forward once we have been ‘dragged out’.

      That’s my limit, and it’s not long now! I know it’s hard, but I’ll keep the faith in Nicola just now.

      Angus’ article today was a tad depressing though.

    92. Breeks says:

      You know that wee Saltire on your veg? It doesn’t just mean it’s Scottish produce, it means it is free of Genetic Modification which is banned in Scotland. Seeing the Butchers Apron or Red Tractor implies no such standard. When people don’t believe you when say Brexit means deregulation and reduced standards, here it is in action…

    93. Craig Murray says:

      Dr Jim

      If Angus Robertson’s puke-making article in the National doesn’t make the scales drop from your eyes, you are a less reasonable man that you pretend to be.

      “Just give us a mandate in summer 2021 elections to ask for a referendum”.

    94. kapelmeister says:

      Now Hear This!

      Labour’s Shadow Scottish Secretary Tony Lloyd was one of the MPs who nominated Nandy for the leadership.

      Does Rochdale Tony have any thoughts on his favourite’s enthusiasm for the repression in Catalonia and her idea that it should be a template for dealing with Scotland?

      BTW Stephen Kinnock also nominated Nandy.

    95. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      How did I know Gfaetheblock was going to use GERS? Must be clairvoyant.

    96. JMD says:

      Angus Robertson (and the other closet britnats in the snp) can take their can kicking and shove it.

      I voted Yes in 2014 and have voted snp at every available opportunity since. If Sturgeon & co don’t visibly and meaningfully step up the pressure on the WM regime NOW and start seriously rocking the boat they can forget about any vote from me in 2021 or any other time later.

    97. Colin Alexander says:

      Craig Murray

      How about making an open letter invitation for a live webcast debate between, Peter A Bell, Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford on the way forward from here?

    98. Colin Alexander says:

      Craig Murray

      How about making an open letter invitation for a live webcast debate between you, Peter A Bell, Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford on the way forward from here?

      Chaired by Paul Kavanagh.

    99. Achnababan says:

      If there is no referendum this year, then Nicola S. should step down because she has failed.

      The SNP will need a new leader to move forward – she will have tried and will have been found wanting.

      We will need a fighter to replace her. Someone who can take the initiative, can wrong foot and toy with opponents, and likes a gamble – suggestions anyone?

    100. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert knight

      I like that idea of protecting the EU flag – not sure a chain would be enough but a huge crowd of people 10/15/20 deep, all linking arms and singing ‘Auld Lang Syne’ might at least defer the act for some time

      Plus we can all wear our EU Saltires and if it is taken down then we can run up another one and we can creep back overnight and re-erect it, every night if necessary.

      However, methinks that the light show, PM’s speech and fireworks will hog all the news. The BBC and others will ensure that – and we’ll probably get a montage of how it was celebrated in Leeds, Sunderland, Belfast and Dover.

      The whole idea of any celebration stinks of rubbing our noses in it, and makes me feel completely undervalued and worthless in a new brighter, more exciting, progressive Britain.


    101. Dan says:

      Gfaetheblock say: at 12:27 pm

      Is it not:

      I have £100
      I give it to my next door neighbour
      He gives me a proportion of back to spend on the things I want, and keeps a proportion to spend on things we both need but I have limited influence on how he spends it.
      I receive goods and services valuing £107.

      Ahh, first point: “…things we both need…”
      What, like HS2 and Hinkley C.
      Yep great, sign Scotland up to that asap as we really need an expensive railway line that doesn’t actually reach Scotland, and as Scotland is a net exporter of power (a lot of which is produced by renewables) an expensive nuclear power station is as much use to Scotland as a motorbike is to a worm.

      Second point: “…have limited influence…”
      Thank you for highlighting the reason why many would prefer if Scotland wasn’t in this “equal” Union as we don’t have parity of influence with our “partner”.

      Your figures superficially make it look like we get more back than we put in, but if we’re getting back shit and services we don’t want or need the deal isn’t really quite as good as you’re promoting it.

    102. Craig Murray says:

      Meg Merilees

      I think it is potentially a very eye-catching idea. 50 people can provide a very adequate defence to a flagpole, you wouldn’t have to ring parliament (though you could if 000’s turn out). Danger is they would take it down earlier…

    103. Gary45% says:

      Just heard on the wireless, Gibraltar could stay in Schengen after Brexit.
      Hey Sturgeon, you have a mandate, and until the end of the month to “get on with it”. (Vote for the SNP to “Stop Brexit”)Remember that bollocks?? Or will the rabbit be pulled out of the magic hat?
      Do not take us for fools .
      Looks like the “crims” in the Costa Del Sol have more freedom than Scots.
      Scotland looking like the “centipede that shoots itself in all feet” in front of a laughing world.
      A Raging SNP member/decades long SNP voter.

    104. Craig Murray says:

      I am feeling quite dark this evening. Wondering whether, if the SNP now turning into a Britnat establishment party de facto, it is only on the list they will be challenged by genuine Independence supporters.

    105. Mike d says:

      Not long to go now till big Ben bongs out on Brexit day. I hope none of those nasty remainers try and put a dampener on the rejoiceful day with malicious hoax calls.

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      I had taken you to have a genuine concern for what is best for the future, but were you not touting OIAG? Pragmatic patriots is the ethical position, not reactionary tribalism.

    107. CameronB Brodie says:


    108. schrodingers cat says:

      JMD says:
      18 January, 2020 at 5:10 pm
      Angus Robertson (and the other closet britnats in the snp) can take their can kicking and shove it.


      i disagree, what determines our forward is entirely dependend on how the polls move in favour of yes. if scotgoespop reveals next week that support for the snp/yes is at 70%, expect a holyrood election this spring.

      personally, i dont think it will be a 70%, movement will be small and incremental over the next 12 months

      the point i am making is, our future action isnt determined by you, or me, or angus robertson. it is the people of scotland who will decide. if that isnt quick enough for you………… tough

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit relies on a legal interpretation of the constitution that lacks adequate moral consideration of Scotland and Scotland’s needs. As such, Brexit can not be consider either coherent or compatible with the natural law justification for union, which is the source of the constitution’s legal force.


    110. schrodingers cat says:

      Craig Murray says:
      18 January, 2020 at 5:50 pm
      I am feeling quite dark this evening. Wondering whether, if the SNP now turning into a Britnat establishment party de facto, it is only on the list they will be challenged by genuine Independence supporters.
      i agree with a list party, i have done for years. but only to ensure an indy majority at the next he.

      the failure of other indy parties in 2016 was because the yes voters didnt trust them craig and therefore voted snp. (what a waste of votes)

      those who vote snp on the list.. wont back someone who disses the snp. they need someone they can trust. i think the greens will follow rise/ssp/solidarity for exactly that reason next year

    111. CameronB Brodie says:

      Constitutional practice can only be just and proper, if there is an appropriate balance of moral and legal order. Brexit lacks mortal consideration for Scotland and can not be allowed to degrade to socio-economic rights enjoyed by those living in Scotland

      Negative/positive constitutionalism, “fair balance,” and the problem of justiciability

    112. CameronB Brodie says:

      That time the syntax was lost because I’m ragging.

    113. schrodingers cat says:

      important from scot goes pop

      Of most interest to us is a supplementary question that reveals more than twice as many Labour members support a second Scottish independence referendum as oppose one. Taking into account members who are open to a referendum with a view to doing a deal with the SNP, there is more than a four-to-one majority in favour of keeping the referendum option open.

      Now thinking about a referendum on Scottish independence, do you think Labour should…?

      Support having one: 33%
      Oppose having one: 16%
      Not actively support one, but be open to supporting one as part of a coalition deal with the SNP: 44%

      Embarrassingly for Jess Phillips, only one-third of her own supporters share her implacable opposition to an indyref.

      So the stance of the self-styled Labour “moderates” is not only rejected by the lost voters they ought to be trying to win back in Scotland, but also by their party’s own membership across the UK. The intransigence of these politicians has clearly got nothing to with listening to people or with electability, which leaves just one plausible possibility – dogmatic British nationalism.

      * * *

      Panelbase independence poll incoming?

      Well, it’s sod’s law, isn’t it? Just 48 hours after this blog’s successful fundraiser to break the post-election drought of polls on independence, a commenter on this blog revealed that he had been polled by Panelbase on the subject. It remains to be seen whether that’s a private poll or one for public consumption, but judging from the nature of the questions I could well imagine it was commissioned by the Sunday Times, in which case we might see it as early as tonight. If so, the results will be fascinating – Panelbase have in recent years been a relatively No-friendly pollster, but that’ll have been at least partly due to their weighting scheme, which will presumably now have been updated to introduce weighting by recalled 2019 general election vote. If there were previously problems caused by false recall or by the high SNP abstention rate in 2017, the new weighting could potentially make a significant difference. But we’ll see.

    114. Capella says:

      Angus Robertson doesn’t speak for the SNP. Most of his article is quoting “leading London commentator Ian Martin” and head of communications for the Scottish conservatives, Andy Maciver.
      He then goes on to echo their case for the 2021 Holyrood election being decisive.

      I think waiting till 2021 would be stupid. Is Angus Robertson stupid? I don’t know. But it is striking that leading London commentators and Tories everywhere are very keen that we pin everything on the 2021 election. They will able to say that the SNP must win a clear majority of seats, which, under the d’Hondt system, is virtually impossible. We will be out of the EU and no longer under EU rules by then. I think that is why they suggest that 2021 is the decisive date.

    115. robertknight says:

      Brian Doonthetoon@1.44

      Bu66er me! Who’d have thought Mr Campbell could carry a tune!

      I wonder if the AUOB pipe band would be available on the 31st. Talk about ‘setting the heather alight’ if they were. It’d put the Yoon press into low Earth orbit and BawJaws would spontaneously combust!


    116. meg merrilees says:

      Craig Murray

      – so we start to gather from early morning onwards, make an outing of it, bring picnics, black bun, burns poems, bagpipes, Maybe meet each day, even a week before and create a rota carrying out a vigil .

      Bound to try and bring it down under cover of darkness – furtively!!!

    117. schrodingers cat says:

      Craig Murray says:
      I am feeling quite dark this evening.

      lets see how dark your thoughts are after we see the first poll craig?

    118. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Capella says:
      18 January, 2020 at 6:14 pm
      Angus Robertson doesn’t speak for the SNP.

      Nobody from the SNP has yet come out and said that, though, and they’ll have seen people’s freakouts about the piece online. If it differs significantly from what Nicola will anounce, now would be a good time for the SNP or Robertson himself to say he’s only stating his own views.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one that might convince folk that Scotland’s judiciary and politicians are not immune to the effects of cultural psychology, and their judgement not immune to culturally prejudiced beliefs and practice. A far better defense against Brexit would have been forthcoming, if I’m wrong.

      Don’t rely on those who have used the law to maintain an outdated and increasingly illiberal legal order. A legal order that will not relinquish its privileges without a fight. Probably best to also keep an eye on all those who operate within the British constitutional system. Even those who work and fight for us.

      The Justiciability of Economic, Social
      and Cultural Rights on Domestic Law

    120. Capella says:

      @ Unionist Media BDSM Club – maybe it suits the SNP leadership to let the media speculate till the cows come home. Nicola Sturgeon has said she will spell out her next steps at the end of the month. I’m willing to wait till 1st Feb to find out what the plan is. After that – we will all be in a position to decide whether we support or reject it.

    121. Colin Alexander says:

      What’s the point in winning a 2021 Holyrood election with a pro-indy majority?

      SNP 2016 manifesto: EU membership and if Brexit, Indyref2.

      Currently looks like 100% failure to deliver on either of them: though the jury is still out on that.

      Why would anyone want to vote SNP again, unless blinded by loyalty or a complete mug IF, and I repeat IF, they fail to deliver on either promise?

      Clearly, Angus Robertson is testing the water for Sturgeon; the gullibility test of the SNP-voting electorate.

      Dr Jim’s vote is already in the bag for 2021; how about the rest of us?

    122. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:


      I hear you, man. I haven’t given up hope yet that Nicola comes through for us here. Plus, you know, who wants to join Colin Alexander and Mist in shrieking hourly about SNP betrayal?

      But as things stand, the timing and content of that article are not encouraging at all. They feel like an attempt to soften the blow when it comes.

    123. A C Bruce says:

      Angus Robertson is advertising the National article on his Twitter account so he must be quite proud of himself. He would surely be angrily refuting it if it wasn’t accurate.

      The SNP coaxed the electorate into voting for them in December. They now appear to be backtracking at a speed that would shame whirling Dervishes.

      An unelected, unofficial SNP spokesman is left to tell the rest of us that a 2020 referendum isn’t happening.

    124. callmedave says:


      Harry and Meghan will not use HRH titles – palace

    125. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi robertknight at 6:17 pm.

      You typed,
      “Brian Doonthetoon@1.44
      Bu66er me! Who’d have thought Mr Campbell could carry a tune!

      I wonder if the AUOB pipe band would be available on the 31st. Talk about ‘setting the heather alight’ if they were. It’d put the Yoon press into low Earth orbit and BawJaws would spontaneously combust!”

      One of the SA Pipes & Drums was at the Campbeltown event last year and I had a blether with him about “Ode To Joy” at the after party event in our hotel, where he was taking part in an impromptu jam session. I suggested it would be a good tune to play as the SA P&D passed Manky-shirt and his mob.

      He only went and played it, there and then! In the lounge of the hotel…

      He did explain, though, that members of the band came from all over Scotland (and England!) so it was almost impossible to have rehearsal nights, therefore, on the marches, they tended to play what they all knew.

    126. Dan says:

      @meg merrilees 6.24pm

      I imagine it would be an ideal occasion and also a mighty impressive sight to see a ring of large Saltired Sumos defending our EU flag and membership…

      Just sayin…

      …Meanwhile in Scotland around 50% of the population bicker for an undetermined number of mandates to decide the shade of colour the Sumos should be…

    127. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi peeps.

      An update from our own “Tartanpigsy” on his crowdfunder page for “The Return of 10000 Flags For Yes”.

      “Today by Mark Piggott, Organiser
      Hi there,
      Thanks to everyone who donated.
      Our goal was reached due to a private benefactor lending us the balance to complete the import.
      The full quota of flags, car flags and wing mirror covers are in the country.
      Donor perks are being organised as we speak.
      Due to the impending leave EU date we have decided to include 1 of each flag to donors with the express wish from our private benefactor that the EU Saltires be displayed in as prominent a place as you have available the weekend of 1st February.”

    128. Colin Alexander says:

      Unionist Media BDSM Club

      I said the jury is still out.

    129. Dr Jim says:

      @Craig Murray

      Why are you turning up to whine and pick a fight with me again when I never mentioned your name, is there something wrong with you, what’s your interest in what I think about an ex representative of the SNP getting paid to write articles

      If you don’t like Angus Robertsons article take it up with him, I have no influence over who writes what in any paper or blog including you

      I don’t have any control over the politics or views of other people or should I not be *allowed* my own, how very British of you

    130. Robert Louis says:

      I used to like Angus Robertson, but after hi nonsense about 2021 today, he can literally gtf. Away off to England with you Angus. You seem awfy comfy there.

      Just in case NOBODY in the SNP leadership have noticed, Scots are furious about brexit. It happens in two weeks. Do something, FFS. You asked for and were given a mandate. Either indyref/end the union, or admit your lucrative, jouicy political careers are more important to you.

      The SNP can either fight using the mandate they have just been given literally a few weeks ago, or NS and quite a few others need to go.

      Had enough of their procrastinating sh*te from the SNP. Enough. Bunch of wastrels.

    131. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Where is the EU flagpole at Holyrood?

      I mean, physically – is it on the roof?

    132. Gfaetheblock says:

      Reluctant nationalist- because that is the best data we have. Good enough for scotlands future and the growth commission, then good enough for my straw man.

      Dan – yep, that’s my point. Argue the facts as best we know them, not some pish about lawnmowers that just exposes economic illiteracy.

      CameronB – sorry, lost me with OIAG

    133. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      There are several flagpoles on the ground in front of the Parliament, though they’re probably being removed now that I’ve mentioned it…

    134. Dan says:

      Dinae be postin’ direct links to unionist papers if yer an Indy supporter…

    135. Breeks says:

      @NicolaSturgeon. 16th Jan…
      : “There’s a really fundamental issue at stake right now in Scotland, and it’s not actually about whether or not Scotland should be independent.
      It’s about who gets to decide…


      That’s the sound of me running head first, as fast as I can, into a brick wall.

      I am sick to my heart of this interminable shite, and her running like a gazelle directly in the opposite direction from where Scotland needs tangible progress delivered. Bigger fucking depression hitting Scotland than Storm Brendan.

      I’m off to shut my fingers in a drawer a few times now. Maybe it’ll cheer me up.

    136. Capella says:

      @ Unionist Media BDSM Club – if Nicola announces that the SNP are going to wait until the 2021 elections then they will lose support. Mine, for one.

      There is no reason why their stated intention to hold a referendum later this year can’t be honoured. The only reason IMO is if they lack the will, and many people here accuse them of cowardice.

      Stu says the arithmetic is impossible. I don’t agree. Consider this timetable:

      2nd May 1997 the new Labour government takes office
      May 1997 Referendum Bill introduced to Westminster Parliament
      July 1997 White Papers for Scotland and Wale published.
      July 1997 Referendums (Scotland and Wales) Act – Royal Assent
      11th Sep 1997 Referendum in Scotland approves proposals
      18th Sep 1997 Referendum in Wales approves proposals

      From taking office at Westminster to holding the momentous referendums in Scotland and Wales took 5 months. The Commons would have been in recess for most of those 5 months. Yet for the Scottish Government to re-run a referendum which has already been tested, is supposed to require almost a year? No. That’s not credible.

      So I am prepared to wait and see what is proposed given that Westminster has said no to a S30 agreement. The jury is still out.

    137. Robert Louis says:

      Flagpole with the Europe flag is out the front entrance, by the pedestrian crossing. It could be easily defended from this unwanted and dicatatorial removal by a bunch of craven London-worshipping turncoats.

      I’d help defend it. 24 hours or so is all that’s needed to make the point.

      A sound system blasting out the EU anthem, Beethoven’s ‘ode to joy’ as well would be good, or, as other have sugested a pipe band. Invite the media. Sorry that should have said, invite EU (not UK) media.

      Mind, if our Scottish government had any balls, brexit would NOT be happening in Scotland.

    138. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi peeps.

      SHAZBOT! Posted on the wrong page…

      Hi Ian Brotherhood at 7:12 pm

      You asked,
      “Where is the EU flagpole at Holyrood?

      I mean, physically – is it on the roof?”

      Right outside on the pavement. See:-

    139. Daisy Walker says:

      The SNP/NS have gone from – Scotland will not be taken out of EU against its will, to, the Scottish Government will mitigate the crisis of Brexit as best it can!

      And in less that 2 weeks we will be out of the EU and the layer of protection it affords – particularly with regards the existence of our Parliament at Holyrood.

      A PM prepared to unlawfully shut down Westminster – will not hesitate to bypass and mothball Holyrood – and no-one in sunny old England will criticise him for it.

      The British Establishment will – without doubt – have people within the SNP. And those they cannot bribe or corrupt will be threatened.

      Once controlled, those persons will be instructed, not to retire from the fight, not to convert to Unionism, but to spike the guns, to drag the heals, to piss all over the fire of enthusiasm, and most of all use the excuse of keeping powder dry – when actually pulling punches.

      None of the above will ever be proved. A pointless waste of time and energy to try.

      But if you are aware this is the game plan – it keeps you free to go around the problem.

      If NS’s response to Boris, is, as we all fear, vote for me in 2021, for yet another mandate. That will be the time to go round.

      The choices then will be – oust NS – possible, but would use up a lot of time we don’t have, and generate big headlines about a split in the party. And who would take over, and would they have been spiked?

      Or to leave NS in place and have MP’s and MSP’s step away from the party and stand as Independent Independents – single issue alliance. This would neatly leave the bourach that the GRA issue presents to one side. It would become a multi headed beast – much harder to nobble. In normal times it would be a terrible idea, but we live in polarised times, and the single issue is huge.

      Their mandate would be to ensure the 2021 HE is on a mandate for Scot Indy. And if this gets shut, then the next GE.

      Any SNP party members – who are looking to follow the Labour Party route, of keep making promises with no intention of delivering – would be left with their bums out the window on this one.

      The 3rd option (and I don’t think we have the time or are organised enough) is to take a leaf out of the woke / GRA canvassers book and join/lobby on mass within the party, in order to push through our preferred route to Indy.

      I am very grateful to all the SNP has done and continues to do. But since I think the above Brit Nat MO is tried and tested, it would be unthinkable for it not to be fully underway within the SNP at present. My loyalty is to achieving an Independent Scotland, and for that we cannot afford all the eggs to be in one basket.

      We won incredible mandates to hold IR2 if circumstances changed ‘such as being pulled out of the EU against our will’ – an event frequently described as the biggest (self inflicted) economic disaster since WW2 – and we have not been afforded the chance to stand up for ourselves and hold the IR2. All arguments that the polls haven’t moved are considerably weakened by the lack of SNP campaigning to ensure that they move.

      The goal posts have consistently been moved at every significant date in the process and the can kicked down the road repeatedly. This was forecast as a deliberate policy by WM.

      We have run out of time and rope. Any argument that we need to feel just how bad Brexit is going to be, really feel the pain, see the damage all around us – ignore the threat that the institute that empowers us to hold IR2 will be decommissioned within the same time period.

      There has never been a more urgent need for an Independence Leader to rally the support, and set out a clear cut, democratic method by which we work towards and achieve Indy… and another mandate is most assuredly not it.

      It really is now or never, we have run out of time. If Nicola Sturgeon does not set out a road map, all those who support her, will very soon have to chose – Nicola Sturgeon or Independence.

    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      I really hate to be in the position I’m in, but I’ve been trained to defend democracy through ethical reason and a critical approach to the law. I can’t not do what I’m doing, but I’m trying to be constructive about it.

      I’m not breathing life back in to the ‘once in a generation’ narrative, which you were arguing just the other day. That argument holds no legal weight, so I was doubting your impartiality. It is possible to be impartially partial, but that takes training, insight and moral discipline.

    141. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 0720pm,


      Surely the political quote of the year.

    142. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:


      You fight the good fight here. You have more patience than me for taking on the anti-SNP Brit plants and the miserablist indy graveyard Goths. You’re usually right and I hope you’re right again about all of the above.

      There are a couple of ways Robertson’s article might be more or less benign. He might have been testing the water for more gradualism, in which case he and the SNP already know how the movement would respond to that. Or he might have been preparing us for the real decision on independence happening in spring 2021, with the Holyrood election either a plebiscite on indy or (my preferred option) the referendum happening soon after that election.

      The thing virtually everybody on this site can agree (except the plants) is that asking for yet another mandate in 2021 to hold a referendum at some unknown point in the future would be almost literally insane and deserved political suicide.

    143. Colin Alexander says:

      “Angus Robertson is a Managing Director of Progress Scotland. He serves on the Advisory Council of the Scottish Policy Foundation and is a member of the UK Privy Council”.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Scotty’s on fire”.

      Models of Incorporation and
      Justiciability for Economic,
      Social and Cultural Rights

    145. Dr Jim says:

      @Capella 7:20pm

      You’re right to wait, everybody else is saying stuff except the the FM and as far as I’m aware she hasn’t changed her position on 2020 and neither has Mike Russell

      I wonder if all these articles being written by prominant folk are designed to do what they seem to be succeeding at, in winding people up and making them angry and demanding, and if it’s all over why are the opposition still squealing with rage instead of being smug (we’re the winners Ha Ha) because they’re not acting like they’ve won, they’re acting like they know something’s coming round the corner

      I might be accused of over thinking that but like you I’m happy to wait the next couple of weeks to find out before I leap to definite judgements or change my views

      If you check the FMs Twitter you can see that the only nasty opposition left seems to be the football God of the Rangers religious nuts, that used to be my team but these people unfortunately put me off Scottish football a long time ago so I watch the Spanish teams

      I believe many people don’t fully understand the depth of the sectarisn bitterness surrounding all this and the people who practice it whether quietly or otherwise, they are the main drawback, just as in Northern Ireland but without the accompanying bangs

    146. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Symbols are important.

      Why don’t we do the protest around the EU flagpole on Jan 31st and maintain a constant presence there – for as long as it takes – on the understanding that we will not allow it to be lowered unless it is given to us for ‘safekeeping’, to be raised again as and when we secure admission to the EU as an independent nation?

      Is that too cheesy?

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s some sharks with laser-beams on their heads. Only an abstract but loads of click-through links,

      Justiciability of Human Rights Law in Domestic Jurisdictions

    148. Capella says:

      @ Unionist Media BDSM Club – re the whiners – just ignore them. Scroll on by 🙂

      If the UK exits the EU on 31st January – and we are still in the EU as I type – then we remain in the transition period until December. EU rules still apply. The UK wants a trade deal with the EU and will be under huge pressure form business to play nice.

      From January 2021 none of these factors apply. The UK Government Withdrawal Bill contains a clause (I think S38) which declares them to be sovereign, above the courts, above the law. They can then abolish the devolved parliaments with no brake on their overweening powers. The Carwyn Jones video clips that Kangaroo linked to on the previous thread spelt it out.

      I think it would be mad to wait until that is the situation. For that reason, I think all those advocating we wait until 2021 want us to be in a very much weaker position. Or else, they have no power to look into the future.

    149. Gfaetheblock says:


      Got you, ta. Yep, let’s not get into that again. I just think all parties play the same games, OIAG vs dead in a ditch vs LibDem’s no tuition fees vs anything Corbyn said. We should mock them all!

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Symbols are very important as they help frame the meaning of our reality. Scotland’s (notional) reality for the last 300 years, has been one as equal partner in voluntary legal union with England. Apparently that is no-longer the case, and Scotland is actually bound in illiberal constitutional subjugation to England. Scots who become aware of this can expect to suffer psychological stress, as a result of the sudden disruption of their rational,, cognitive, foundations. The likely legal and socioeconomic condition likely to arise in Brexitania, can be expected to have a further negative impact on their mental and physical health.

    151. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – the flag in front of the parliament is the Council of Europe flag, or so people have tweeted. There is no need to take it down. The Scottish Government is intending to reverse that decision and Tricia Marwick has tweeted that Parliament can vote for it to remain.

      Tartan Pigsy has a store of EU flags. Maybe we could all make a point of displaying it as often as possible and taking them to any AUOB marches.

      @ Dr Jim – I believe in crossing bridges when I come to them, and not fretting about it. 🙂

    152. cirsium says:

      Great post, Daisy (7.22)

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ll try to slow down, that way I might make more sense. And remember, I’ve not looked at this stuff in almost thirty years.

      One for those in Scotland’s judiciary who are not purple with rage over Brexit. They are not fit to dispense justice, IMHO. 😉




      Whilst the international community embraces the idea that all human rights are indivisible, interdependent and of equal importance, economic, social and cultural rights have been largely neglected. One factor contributing to their neglect has been the assertion that economic, social and cultural rights cannot be adjudicated and enforced by courts. Bridging this justiciability gap between civil and political rights and economic, social and cultural rights is key to ensuring both sets are accorded equal status.

      The report assesses the main arguments against the justiciability of economic, social and cultural rights, and shows how these rights can be adjudicated, that adjudication is desirable, and practiced in many courts throughout the world. The case law examined provides a comparative tool from which to draw ideas and argue cases regarding economic, social and cultural rights. It will be useful for legal practitioners, advocacy groups and non-governmental organizations.

      It could also be valuable for judges, for government officials responsible for the implementation of these rights, and for training purposes. Finally, the report supports the adoption of an Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

    154. schrodingers cat says:

      flegs………. meh

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      All I want is to be able to access my human rights. British nationalism and British constitutionalism are preventing me from doing so. Brexit exhasibates this condition, and can be ecpected to degrade my well-being considerably. There is no justice left in Britain, apparently.

      2.2 From justiciability to access to justice

      With growing jurisprudence emerging from domestic and regional judicial and quasi-judicial bodies, and with the adoption and entry into force of the Optional Protocol to the ICESCR, the theoretical debate around justiciability of ESC rights has been largely overcome. Nevertheless, important procedural and practical issues still represent challenges for judges and lawyers who adjudicate and litigate ESC rights….

    156. TJenny says:

      I’ve signed the petition to not lower the EU flag at 11pm on 31/01, but didn’t give any money as I don’t see why a petition to parly requires any.

      However, could we have someone (in each city) with a laser projection, projecting EU flag onto Holyrood, both parly and Queenie’s hoose, the castle, Arthur’s Seat? Could we arrange for other places to have this projection on buildings like eg Patheic Quay, the Selkies, Glasgow’s Armmdillo etc. If it needs money I’ll happily pop in a few quid. 🙂

    157. meg merrilees says:

      Ian Brotherhood –

      It becomes the ‘Flag of Destiny’.

      WE could take it down before them and hide it in various homes across the country, showing it in pop up bridge demonstrations, and if we had more than one, we could have simultaneous displays in different parts of the country….

      Yes, I think we should all wear one at any future AUOB march and possibly even run it up a temporary flagpole at any rallies we have after Jan 31st.

    158. Willie says:

      The time for an independence list party is now.

      SNP and independence voters would flock to it and I have little doubt that it would deliver fully some 18 to 20 list MSPs as opposed to maybe 4.

      However, and this is a big however, but an independence list party would also lance the boil of the SNP having become an establishment pseudo independence party full of elected timeservers happy with the status quo, and going no where.

      Like Labour the voters could desert Nicola’s middling SNP. They haven’t yet, but if the members sentiments are anything to go by, they are ahead of the disenchantment curve.

      Like the 1890s Home Rule party in Ireland it was soon ecliped.

      After 40 years I personally have become discontented about about where the SNP now stands and we cannot afford to further squander the extant support that exists in current climate.

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Have I been knocking my pan in to no positive effect?. I’ve tried to highlight the importance of semiotic signification, as it helps in understanding democracy and the practices of methodological nationalisms, such as British nationalism.

      Semiotic signification is important mate, I’ve not been spanking my ego in public. There is method to my madness. 😉

    160. Effijy says:

      Scotland! The Great Nation in the One Europe Family!

    161. schrodingers cat says:

      Cam says
      Have I been knocking my pan in to no positive effect?.

      um…………. 🙂

    162. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Nice to be appreciated……

    163. Golfnut says:

      @ Gfaetheblock.

      GERS, I was hoping for something better than treasury estimates sent via the OBR to the SG statisticians. Remember if you put shite in you can only get CRAP back.

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Sorry, I missed the 🙂

      My bad….I’m under heightened stress as I actually understand what the feck is going on. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it. 😉

    165. Ottomanboi says:

      @Schrödingers cat
      You’re such a ‘dead cat’.

    166. schrodingers cat says:

      cam, ottomanboi

      You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being, the kerygma in which we find the ultimate meaning of our interpersonal relationship.’ And the cat said: ‘What’?”

    167. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      There’s a UK-wide poll – “Should there be a second referendum on Scottish independence?”. It’s currently sitting at 45% Yes, 49% No.

      Click on “Story continues” to vote.

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I appreciate most of what is post is of no interest to most folk, but this is what post-modern critical social theory looks like. This is what the big brains use when planning stuff and governing democratically. And on the hoof. I don’t know what I could be charging for this as a consultant. Mkay! Mkay? Mkay. 🙂

    169. schrodingers cat says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      18 January, 2020 at 10:05 pm
      @Schrödingers cat
      You’re such a ‘dead cat’.
      when i post on social media, i exist as an actuality, for you and everyone else who reads my post. when i dont post, i cease to be an actuality and become a super position of 11th dimensional probability waves.

      thing is, it isnt just opinion which is relative…. reality is relative, and in my reality, in every waking moment of it, you arent a super position of 11th dimensional probability waves. you’re and actual tosser all of the time.

      no contradiction

    170. schrodingers cat says:

      I appreciate most………..

      dont flatter yourself

    171. terence callachan says:

      I think these two women are proof that Labour want to keep Leonard as leader in Scotland
      These two have no chance
      In my opinion Westminster are worried that Labour in Scotland will split and a breakaway group will form a Scottish independence supporting party carrying off a great many of the 511,000 votes they got in the recent GE, enough to give Scottish independence a majority remember whatever leaves labour NO and joins the YES can be doubled in terms of reaching a majority for independence.

      There is zero Labour can offer voters in Scotland and the rest of U.K. for that matter

      Westminster is acutely aware that many NO to Scottish independence Labour voters will move to the tories or to Lib Dem’s over time as bettertogether NO voters huddle under their tactical voting plan

      but westminster also know there are a very large number of Labour voters in Scotland who will never ever vote Tory or Lib Dem they see the Lib Dem’s as tories of a different colour.

      Westminster will be encouraging Labour to keep things as they are in Scotland
      They will be telling Labour you have lost the GE
      and lost all but one of your seats in Scotland
      So play it safer from here on
      Keep what you’ve got
      Don’t take any risks
      Don’t try and regain what you have lost
      Keep a low profile

      Westminster will be thinking there have been ample opportunities for a breakaway faction to form a new Scottish independence supporting party and it hasn’t happened , keeping things as they are in Labour Scotland with Leonard continuing to promise socialism in the future is Westminster’s plan and Labour will tow the line and Labour in Scotland will do what it’s told by head office as usual.

      Leonard’s heart and soul is in England , not Scotland , he doesn’t give a jot about Scotland
      Hrs a grey man unnoticeable his ambitions are a higher role in Westminster and if he can prevent a breakaway Scottish independence supporting faction
      He will get that higher role in Westminster

    172. Kenny J says:

      Colin Alexander says:
      18 January, 2020 at 7:42 pm

      “Angus Robertson is a Managing Director of Progress Scotland. He serves on the Advisory Council of the Scottish Policy Foundation and is a member of the UK Privy Council”.
      Anybody else looked at the other members of the “Scottish Policy Foundation” council. Thats the foundation that “employs” K.Dugdale. The council members are Smith, Smith, Smith and Smith. Not quite, but it features Lady Smif, one of her daughters,Some guy from the trade unions, more Labourites, and oor Angus. A while since I looked. And of course nestles within the Uni. of Glasgow.
      What the f*** is he doing in among that bunch of shit, if he is not actually one of them. What does he get out of it.
      “You can tell a man who boozes, by the company he chooses,and the”.

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      And you appear to know fuck all about the law. Don’t flatter yourself.

    174. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I believe you can still get across even if the bridge has been burnt down or blown up!

      I also believe that there is no point worrying about things you have no control over, @ Capella says at 8:22 pm

      What will be will be.

      We will overcome and Scotland will be an Independent Country once again.

      Why else do you think the British Nationalists are going full on Federalism, “there’s a been a Broontervention” “No means No” and all the other “Scotland Shite ‘cos EssEnnPeeBaaad” bollocks turned up to 11, despite there being no date for a referendum on IndyRef2?

      They aren’t in control and it’s driving them mad, hence the scattergun approach!

      Remember, officially there has still been no material change of circumstances.

      14 sleeps until us Scots either will or won’t be taken out of EU against our will.

    175. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nah, screw the law that boring. Let’s talk shite about what is the best political strategy to defend Scotland’s democracy.

      The necessary international law is there, please somebody use it.

    176. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit pisses all over the moral law justification for union, but what do I know?

      English Law and the Moral Law

    177. Colin Alexander says:

      I’m not wound up. I’m no shouting “traytors” at the SNP. I’m no worried about an indyref2 no happening. I never wanted another one anyway, as I saw how the first one went.

      Since 2016, I have never seriously expected another indyref in the lifetime of this parliament. (Though I respect that’s what Scotland voted for).

      I will have mixed feelings, if at the end of January, Scotland leaves the EU, and NS, the SNP and the Greens do nothing except Tweet their outrage. Yet again.

      I’ll be sad for Scotland. Sad that Imperial fascism has won because the people that had to stand up and be counted bottled it or were too comfortable as British career politicians.

      I’ve already been through the anger, fear and frustration. Now it’s resignation and acceptance that the SNP aren’t going to listen to me, or any of the apparent growing numbers, who are dismayed by the path the SNP have taken since 2014.

      Dismayed by the lip service paid to Scottish sovereignty and Scottish democracy by Scotland’s politicians, while they bend the knee to the fake sovereignty of the Imperial Crown in UK Parliament and the WM colonial branch office at Holyrood.

    178. Kenny J says:

      From the last posting Hubris: A Warning from History.

      John Jones says:
      18 January, 2020 at 11:48 am

      A thought occured to me, this doesn’t happen very often, so pay attention.
      Why doesn’t AUOB start a political party, they have the organisation skills, 10s of thousands following them, the means of raising the costs involved through crowdfunding and standing in the lists with the number 2 vote option. As a cross party organisation it would cut out the (you’re all SNP accusations)

      Started to put this in , then realised we had moved on to here. I think this is an excellent idea, if the good Rev. could take it on board.

      The organisation, name-recognition for purpose, some funding, are all there. Would they be interested ?
      Was it Mr. Churchill who said, “anything is achievable,as long as you don’t insist on taking the credit.”
      Why did not Ms. Sturgeon, knowing what Mr.Johnson’s reply would be, not have a letter ready, all composed and stamped waiting to be stuck in a Post Box, as soon as she heard him actually tell us to f*** off. If not to kill a little more time ?

    179. Colin Alexander says:

      Kenny J

      I’ve had a similar thought but didn’t want to air it, but may as well get it off my chest:

      What are SNP politicians such as Nicola Sturgeon and Angus Robertson still serving as Privy Counsellors for “purring Betty” and the Imperial Crown following Empress Elizabeth’s apparent unconstitutional interference in Indyref1?

    180. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Kenny J @ 10.40pm

      Please engage brain before posting shite.

      Angus Robertson is on the advisory council of the Scottish Policy Foundation.

      Kezie Dugdale is the director of the John Smith Centre for Public Service at the University of Glasgow – a totally different organisation.

      Get it right before going off on a rant.

    181. Pete Barton says:


      You might wanna go easy on the red bull.

      Reading terence’s post again ..

      One point struck me right between the eyes ..

      Labour’s voters in Scotland, and in the UK to a lesser intent are the key.

      In Scotland, a 10% Scottish labour party sanctioned swing to Yes is end game.

      So Terence, you’re on it.

      Now, why won’t that swing happen? Because Slab will never vote for it.

      Forget Jackson, look to the Achilles heel of Slab.

      Leonard is the Empire without clothes.

    182. Dr Jim says:

      The Labour leadership in Scotland will want to do what the Tories tell them, but will their members go along with it,
      Better together is still a sore memory for Labour supporters
      they knew they got it wrong doing the Tories bidding for them, are they going to go down the one last chance route to oblivion, but this time permanently

    183. Kenny J says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      18 January, 2020 at 11:10 pm

      Kenny J @ 10.40pm

      Please engage brain before posting shite.

      Angus Robertson is on the advisory council of the Scottish Policy Foundation.

      Kezie Dugdale is the director of the John Smith Centre for Public Service at the University of Glasgow – a totally different organisation.

      Get it right before going off on a rant.

      You are of course perfectly correct.I was at fault and got the two of them mixed.
      Although I see that Angus is in exalted company at the Scottish Policy Foundation. Not many Nationalists there, I would’nt think.

    184. Colin Alexander says:

      Can anybody offer similar reassurances that the Privy Council is NOT an Imperial organisation rather than a body to serve Imperial Britain and Empress Elizabeth?

    185. Pete Barton says:

      Colin, you might be due a Lie down.

    186. Pete Barton says:

      They have some quite comfortable camp beds in your work.

    187. Pete Barton says:


      And can you reassure us here that you aren’t 77th.

      Thought not.

    188. Kenny J says:

      “Socrates MacSporran says:
      18 January, 2020 at 11:10 pm

      Kenny J @ 10.40pm

      Please engage brain before posting shite.

      Angus Robertson is on the advisory council of the Scottish Policy Foundation.

      Kezie Dugdale is the director of the John Smith Centre for Public Service at the University of Glasgow – a totally different organisation.”

      As I said,I mixed the two of them.
      It is Andrew Wilson who is on the board of Smith, Smith and Smith. And again, why, what does he bring to that Labour *** party.

    189. David Agnew says:

      Would explain why the Scottish sub branch and its janitor; Ragabash logodaedaly, have gone quiet. Just waiting to see which way the Westminster wind blows.

    190. Pete Barton says:

      Rheinhart Leotard is only following orders.

      That is why Slab are failing, they can’t keep following London’s directive, yet supporting Scotland’s interests.

      Pressure is on Slab.

      Ah, cue Mr. Brown!

      D’ye think we button up the back, ya Chancers?

      You work for us!!!

    191. Kenny J says:

      Pete Barton says:
      18 January, 2020 at 11:27 pm

      Colin Alexander says:
      18 January, 2020 at 11:26 pm

      Can anybody offer similar reassurances that the Privy Council is NOT an Imperial organisation rather than a body to serve Imperial Britain and Empress Elizabeth?

      What is wrong with that question. It undoubtedly is packed to the gunnels with members of the English upper strata. Who,by the nature of things, are virtually all unionists, seeing us as part of a Greater England.

    192. Colin Alexander says:

      Pete Barton

      Watter aff a duck’s back with the 77th Brigade rubbish.

      But I agree about going for a lie down. I’m no losing sleep over worrying about Brexit day and whether indyref happens or no.

      Whatever will be will be.

      Goodnight people. Another day ower, another day closer to Brexit day, the Great British Imperial Power Grab and Call My Bluff day for the SNP.

    193. jfngw says:

      One thing about MSM journalists, they will rally around each other like some sort of cult, a sort of Scientology of journalism.

      BBC: ‘I see no bias’
      Megan Markle: ‘I see no racism’

    194. jfngw says:

      I’m not sure this mitigation of Tory policies is actually working in the independence favour. Maybe a bit more exposure to Westminster’s toxicity would be more persuasive, too many happy to take the free education, prescriptions, etc but vote No to independence (they actually have their cake and are eating it).

    195. MorvenM says:

      Angus Robertson getting pelters (rightly so) on his Twitter account.

      I hope the SNP leadership read the comments. It might give them a wee insight into how tricky it might be to win a 2021 election if they renege on #indyref2020.

      Am I the only person who remembers that they’ve already reneged on a major promise to give us a meaningful vote on independence BEFORE being taken out of the EU against our will?

    196. jfngw says:

      If I am taken out of the EU despite Ian Blackford’s declarations that it will not happen, and don’t have an Independence referendum before 2021 despite Nicola Sturgeon’s assurances we will, who the hell will I then vote for.

      The Tories – I’d rather have my bollocks cut off
      Labour – I’ve not had my brain removed, yet
      LibDem’s = That’s just having your bollocks removed but lying about it.
      Greens – Come on, I need a bit more than grandstanding and identity politics.

      Probably just give up voting.

    197. Capella says:

      The head of the IMF criticises the UK for inequality:

      While the inequality gap between countries had closed in the last two decades, it had increased within countries, she said, singling out the UK for particular criticism.

      “In the UK, for example, the top 10% now control nearly as much wealth as the bottom 50%

    198. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I reckon the SNP/Scottish government have until 11pm on 1st February to publish the way forward to either independence or a referendum on same.

      If nothing is forthcoming, a LOT of Scots are going to be disappointed/angry.

      How that pans out in the next few months, is in the lap of the gods.

    199. Capella says:

      Gordon Brown has penned a dire warning about the nationalisms that threaten the precious union.

      There’s Brexit nationalism, Scottish nationalism, Welsh nationalism and Irish nationalism. But wait…there’s something missing. What about English nationalism, surely the most insidious of all? Or British nationalism? Does he use Brexit to cover up for British nationalism which is a cover for English nationalism? How confused he must be.

      Why are they all so rattled, I wonder?

    200. james mallon Drones Over Scotland says:

      My Handle went missing.
      All the best

    201. Chic McGregor says:

      The only sane choice for Labour leadership out of an admittedly VERY poor pool is Emily Thornberry.

      So it comes as no surprise that she has very noticeably been given by far the lowest profile in the BritNazi media.

      Hope springs eternal that Labour membership can see past the manipulation but that is a bit like expecting TV soap addicts to tune in to University Challenge.

    202. Breeks says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      19 January, 2020 at 1:02 am
      I reckon the SNP/Scottish government have until 11pm on 1st February to publish the way forward to either independence or a referendum on same.

      If nothing is forthcoming, a LOT of Scots are going to be disappointed/angry…

      Worrying too, is that they seem totally blind to it. They don’t react to any criticism nor do see seem remotely concerned about the growing disquiet.

      I don’t know where the SNP’s head is, but their strategy is as dismal as it is baffling, and they seem to be relying on a riot shield of hubris to keep themselves going.

      When you try and join the dots, there is no hint of any picture emerging. It is abstract and unfathomable.

      I have precious little faith in the notion of a great bear trap which Westminster is going to fall into on February 1st. It more and more feels comparable to Hitler having forlorn faith that Steiner was charging to his rescue in the last days of the war, but deaf to the truth and blind to the evidence.

      The fight seemed promising, briefly. Ian Blackford promising Scotland wouldn’t be removed from Europe against it’s will, and Joanna Cherry growing in confidence with one legal success after another, but these glowing embers seemed to have faded rather than rekindled.

      There was a shout out earlier for a webcast debate between Craig Murray, Peter Bell, Nicola Sturgeon and Paul Kavanagh. An excellent idea, but it won’t happen. The SNP seems to have little faith or interest in Scotland’s “alternative” media. It’s like every other YES based initiative, it seems to thrive in spite of the SNP, not because of any particular nourishment.

    203. Dr Jim says:

      In todays National Christian Allard says there will be a referendum in late 2020

    204. Robert Louis says:

      jfngw at 1207am

      You raise a good point. I think their are many Scots who do not watch politics, who are utterly unaware of the true horror being unfurled by Westminster upon the UK, simply because the Scotgov are protecting them from it.

      But, it is worse than that, in recent weeks I have had two folk tell me, with utter certainty, that the reason Scots are doing better, is becasue Westminster gives Scotland more money than the rest of the UK. No matter how I tried to explain the reality, they were absolutely dead certain, that it was Westminster’s largesse that was responsible.

      It does strike me that perhaps, very slowly, London is running that particular nonsense via social media, to make it seem like Scotland does benefit from the union. Quietly, in the background, little bits of fake propaganda.

      This is part of the issue I have with the SNP’s interminable dithering. They are quitel iterally sitting back allowing other forces to set the agenda, whilst they seemingly wait for godot.

      Their is an old saying, ‘If you are not leading, you are following’. What are the SNP doing right now??

    205. ScottieDog says:

      “If I am taken out of the EU despite Ian Blackford’s declarations that it will not happen, and don’t have an Independence referendum before 2021 despite Nicola Sturgeon’s assurances we will, who the hell will I then vote for.”

      How about these guys on the list?…

    206. Capella says:

      Relax everybody. GMS today tells us there is no appetite for another referendum. Maybe wait till next year.

      Experts from the SNP will be consulted later. I bet you can’t guess who…

      Jim Sillars, Kenny McAskill and Alex Neil.

      A full house.

    207. CameronB Brodie says:

      From where I’m looking, neither the SNP leadership or management have a particularly good grasp of the law They appear happy to stand under Westminster law though., which does not constitute a respect for the rule-of-law. It indicates subservience to political dogma.

      Scotland will remain constitutionally bound in England’s illiberal grasp, until we learn to use the law properly. Contemporary British nationalism lacks a respect for the moral law, so can’t be considered compatible with social democracy.

      From constitutional to human rights: on the moral structure of international human rights


      The paper presents a theory of the moral structure of international human rights. It proceeds by drawing on recent scholarship on the philosophy of national constitutional rights, which has shown that there is now an emerging global consensus on certain structural features of constitutional rights; in previous work I have summarised this under the label ‘the global model of constitutional rights’.

      Starting from the theory of rights underlying the global model, the paper asks what modifications, if any, are required to turn that theory into a suitable theory of international human rights. In particular, it examines the widely held view that international human rights are more minimalist than national constitutional rights.

      Discussing recent work by Ronald Dworkin (on political/constitutional versus human rights) and Joseph Raz (on legitimate authority versus national sovereignty), the paper concludes that it is not possible to make rights more minimalist than they already are under the global model. It follows that the moral structures of national constitutional rights and international human rights are identical.

      The final section of the paper examines some implications of this result, addressing the issues of the workability of the proposed conception of international human rights in practice, its point and purpose, and discussing the obligations of states to participate in international mechanisms for the protection of human rights.

    208. admiral says:

      Capella says:
      19 January, 2020 at 1:03 am
      Gordon Brown has penned a dire warning about the nationalisms that threaten the precious union.

      Today’s Guardian/Observer.

      Honestly, it’s like being forced to listen to an aged great grandparent, who harbours delusions of being the head of family, frequently gathering us around to listen yet again to an old wind-up gramophone and his only 78rpm severely scratched and warped disc, with the family feigning benign toleration whilst inwardly silently screaming for mercy and deliverance!

    209. CameronB Brodie says:

      England’s Tories are frog-marching Scotland into oblivion. A constitutional crisis that is compounded by the SNP’s adherence to illiberal political process and practice, i.e. British constitutionalism.


    210. Scozzie says:

      SNP are weak as pish.

      – 56 out of 59 MPs – result useless.
      – 2016 maifesto ‘we will have referendum if material change such as leaving EU against our will’.
      – we will call a referendum in this parliamentary term and before the May 2021 HR election.
      – we will call a referendum when we know the terms of the Brexit deal.
      – we will call a referendum ideally between late 2018 or April 2019.
      – we will call a referendum in 2020.
      – 48 out of 59 MPs – so far looking useless again.
      – mibbies we need mandate number 5 at the HR election – five seems like a good number of mandates to display on the mantle piece at Bute House.

      Please don’t the party faithful hit back saying events have overtaken their plans – they squandered every golden opportunity that presented itself. Not to mention sending us down a dead end trying to stop Brexit when they should have been agitating for independence.

      Someone in a previous thread said that Nicola is not a leader – I agree wholeheartedly. At best she’s a manager and right now she is looking like plenty managers I’ve worked under who just spout bullshit.

    211. CameronB Brodie says:

      You need to adopt an ethically rational approach to justice if you hope to respect human rights, not a woke world-view. And certainly not a British nationalist perspective.


    212. Craig Murray says:


      It is a lot worse than that. See the latest article at my blog.

      I hope Stu does not mind my saying this here, but the burden of knowing vital things we are legally constrained from publishing, but which explain much of the apparently inexplicable, has been weighing very heavily on several of us for months. It also naturally resulted in a very definite shift in our attitudes towards the SNP leadership for which we got huge criticism, and yet we were not allowed to say why.

      Sorry if that is a bit cryptic. Stu may not agree with precisely how I have put that. Please see my own blog.

    213. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT but by some chance I have ended up getting NHS Scotland updates in my inbox.

      These refute arguments printed in the so called Scottish media or broadcast in the so called Scottish media and give the accurate side of the story from their point of view.

      The most recent is about a story in the Scottish Mail and explains various courses of action which the Southern is taking and what those called in to investigate are finding.

      NHS Scotland are on the ball in responding to the lies , half lies and half truths dumped on them but only if their responses are accessible – same applies to the SNP

      The SNP really has to start biting , though they may have left it too late and every skewed interview , lie and misinformation has grown legs.

    214. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit can’t be considered compatible with social democracy, so why are we pissing about standing under Westminster’s authority?

      Waiting for the right conditions places politics above the law, and is not indicative of ethically moral reason.

      Constitutional Rights and Proportionality
      There are two basic views concerning the relationship between constitutional rights and proportionality analysis. The first maintains that there exists a necessary connection between constitutional rights and proportionality, the second argues that the question of whether constitutional rights and proportionality are connected depends on what the framers of the constitution have actually decided, that is, on positive law.

      The first thesis may be termed ‘necessity thesis’, the second ‘contingency thesis’. According to the necessity thesis, the legitimacy of proportionality analysis is a question of the nature of constitutional rights, according to the contingency thesis, it is a question of interpretation. The article defends the necessity thesis. A previous version of this article was published in Chinese Yearbook of Constitutional Law (2010). 221–235.

      principles theory, proportionality analysis, constitutional rights, necessary connection, human rights, dual nature

    215. Ottomanboi says:

      Re guy posting as Schrödingers Cat.
      The acme of rather effete, even faux, intellectualism?
      Check this out, ignoring the syntax and grammar:
      [reality is relative, and in my reality, in every waking moment of it, you arent a super position of 11th dimensional probability waves. you’re and actual tosser all of the time]
      I cut the crap, open the box and find one post mortem pussy.
      Anyhow, I fail to see what ‘thought games’ in quantum theory have to do with the politics of Scottish nationalism except in the weird universe of the named subject.

    216. CameronB Brodie says:

      Craig Murray
      You do yourself a disservice by knocking feminists, who are not a homogeneous group. The woke-set tend to be third-wave feminists, if they are feminist at all, though most of them are simply clueless ‘liberals’.

      Knowledge for a Common World? On the Place of
      Feminist Epistemology in Philosophy of Education

    217. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      @Kenny J

      In private some of the AUOB heads are open to the idea of setting up a party for the list. But they’re now pressing ahead with more forceful direct action at e.g. the climate emergency summit in November, and are aware that such action might damage their potential as a party.

      Your instincts are right, though. Despite their internal bickerings they can still organise 80,000 turnout on the dreichest of January days. They have the name and reputation and organisational skills to become even more important to this process, whichever routes they decide to take.

    218. CameronB Brodie says:

      As I said, there is method to my madness.

      Full text.

      Solving Journalism’s Post-Truth Crisis
      With Feminist Standpoint Epistemology's_Post-Truth_Crisis_With_Feminist_Standpoint_Epistemology

    219. Scozzie says:

      Craig Murray @9.55am
      I did read your Yes Minister piece and I think I understood the points you were getting at. I don’t doubt for a minute our Scottish government and civil service are up to their necks in Establishment corruption and stitch ups.

      Having worked many years in the civil service (not senior like you), the scales sure fall off your eyes.
      I remember in the early 2000s having to sit through a presentation on how Monsanto will be a positive global force in helping the agriculture of developing countries – boy that was an eye opener – pure propaganda in the workplace! I think that was the point for me in my civil service career that my cynicism kicked in.

      It must be a burden to know what you know but need to be careful what you say.
      PS; I hope you look after yourself and recover well from your heart troubles.

    220. CameronB Brodie says:

      And that method is based in science that is grounded in a respect for humanity’s relationship with nature.

      The Strategic Naturalism of Sandra Harding’s
      Feminist Standpoint Epistemology: A Path Toward
      Epistemic Progress

    221. Breeks says:

      Happened to catch Brewer so far… random telly flick, I don’t watch the BBC as a rule.

      After a party political broadcast for the Willie Rennie Party, “tell us all what you stand for Willie”, they’ve just started bumming up Jackson Carlaw as the leader to fill big shoes of the Leader of the Ruth Davidson Party, because his challenger runs a gift shop selling kilts tartan kitsch and said something that some stupid people might have thought discriminatory …

      I suddenly remembered that “not watching BBC” was a rule for very good reason. Less than two weeks to Brexit and this is the drivel that’s pissed over us.

      I hear you weeping Scotland, and you retain such extraordinary dignity throughout. I’ve just suffered a lifetime of this shite. You my Bonnie lass, have had to endure over 300 years of it, and still no end in sight.

    222. ScotsRenewables says:

      Fascinating reading this morning. I have tweeted Angus Robertson to say he and (No) Progress Scotland no longer have my support.

      Best idea on this thread is the physical boycott of the taking down of the EU flag at the end of the month. Easy, non-violent, highly visible. Needs just a few hundred of us.

    223. Craig Murray says:

      Cameron Brodie

      You are entirely right. It is third wave feminism with which I specifically disagree, and I have written articles on the subject in the past.

      But feminists of all colours have been gullibly co-opted into the destruction of people the Esablishment view as their most potent opponents, inc Assange, Salmond, Sheridan. That fact does not nvalidate the precepts of feminsim. It does reflect very badly on large numbers of its followers.

      It is just one part of the abuse of identity politics as a lever for the Establishment. Pursuit of identity politics has been an extremely prominent diversion from the Independence cause in the SNP ever since Nicola took charge. As Stu has brilliantly documented. The SNP is more about being “woke” than about Indy nowadays.

    224. Effijy says:

      Newly arrive Black North American woman decides she doesn’t like life in an English gilded cage
      Must be set free to make her own choices!

      Scotland, an ancient Sovereign Nation with its own history language and culture must not be free
      To make any decisions for itself?

      Could our nation make some kind of marriage pack with a 7th in line Prince and
      Visit shanti towns and women’s refuge before asking for Independence?

    225. Breeks says:

      Craig Murray says:
      19 January, 2020 at 9:55 am

      It is a lot worse than that. See the latest article at my blog.

      I hope Stu does not mind my saying this here, but the burden of knowing vital things we are legally constrained from publishing, but which explain much of the apparently inexplicable, has been weighing very heavily on several of us for months…

      I would like to know what you know Mr Murray, but without being constrained by the protocols whereby you came to know it.

      I don’t envy you, but in your shoes, I might ask myself whether the treatment of Julian Assange was intended to be a lesson to people like yourself as much, if not more, than the unfortunate Mr Assange.That isn’t meant as coercion to break your silence, quite the reverse. Don’t, or they will use it to destroy you. We need inside knowledge more than we need martyrs.

    226. Republicofscotland says:

      Alex Neil, acquitted himself well on Brewers unionist show today on holding a consultative referendum, the ins and outs of it and how to proceed if Johnson still says no if we win it.

      He was followed by Willie never to independence Rennie. Who attempted to put a spin on how great his party’s doing right now.

      Brewer of course turned to the likes of a Daily Mail columnist on the show, to get the finger on the pulse of what people are thinking in Scotland with regards to politics and independence.

    227. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT, sorry but I couldn’t resist, though this might also shed light on Westminster’s refusal to respect “difference”, and the administration’s subsequent chauvinistic paternalism towards Scotland.

      Feminist Epistemology and the Question of
      Difference Reconfigured: What can Wittgenstein
      Tell Us about “Women”?

    228. CameronB Brodie says:

      Craig Murray
      I think you may still be conflating the woke-set with feminists. Feminist theory seeks to liberate women, those who support gender-ideology in law, not at all. 😉

    229. iain mhor says:

      @Pete Barton 11:18pm

      Nobody votes Independence because they are ordered to, far less if Labour ‘sanctions’ it.
      As I’ve said severally – in my opinion, thinking about Independence votes along party lines is an error. All the Scottish ‘Party’ Indy voters (bar some small shuffling) are now set in place. There were huge numbers of non-voters who turned out in 2014 and decided Scotlands future – around 30% of the enfranchised electorate – that swamped any party voter swing.

      With the collapse of Labour since, that number has probably increased. The creeping disaffection of SNP voters could increase that further. Critical votes aren’t coming from within parties any longer, those lines were drawn long ago.
      Critical votes are to be ‘won’ from the disaffected, disenfranchised and disillusioned non-voters. It’s not too much of a stretch to suggest they may soon number those of party voters in Scotland. A Scottish Election turnout of 50% would prove it and we’ve seen close to that before. We frequently see well under 50% turnout at most local elections. r

    230. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not sitting folks, the woke-set are destroying the potential for open society and liberal democracy. Introducing anti-foundationalist epistemology into law, provide the conditions for totalitarianism (see Brexit).

      The Epistemology of Resistance: Gender and Racial Oppression, Epistemic Injustice, and the Social Imagination

    231. Dan says:

      11 seconds of reminiscing to past times when a mandate was long lasting and there were apparently only two sexes.

    232. Capella says:

      There is nothing the British Establishment want more than to “take down” Nicola Sturgeon.

      Cui bono? (/kwi? ?bo?no?/), in English “to whom is it a benefit?”, is a Latin phrase about identifying crime suspects. It expresses the view that crimes are oftentimes committed to benefit their perpetrators, especially financially. Which party benefits may not be obvious, and there may be a scapegoat

    233. kapelmeister says:

      This is hilarious. It turns out there’s a district of Rochdale caled Spotland. So Rochdale MP Tony Lloyd is really the Shadow Secretary of State for Spotland!

      He must visit Spotland regularly, but hasn’t been in evidence in Scotland.

      The Labour Party website also lists Lloyd as one of the MPs who nominated would be Jock basher Lisa Nandy.

    234. Republicofscotland says:

      Come on Sturgeon keep your promise of a 2020 indyref.

      Meanwhile the electoral system is wide open to abuse.

    235. kapelmeister says:

      Republicofscotland @ 11:26

      We’ve no say in the UK.

      We’ve No Say, We Want Away!

      We’ve No Say, We Want Away!

      We’ve No Say, We Want Away!

    236. daodao says:

      Any Indyref2 needs the consent of the UK government and the new government has made clear it will refuse Indyref2 whatever the circumstances; it has the power to do so and there is unlikely to be a different UK government much before 2030. The SNP said in 2014 that it was a ‘once in a generation referendum’ and the UK government’s view is that they must be held to that. The SNP should count themselves lucky they are not in Catalunya; even the most mild-mannered and reasonable Labour leadership contender (Nandy) feels that the approach adopted there is a sensible way to tackle secessionism. Chris Cairns’ cartoon (excellent as ever) sums up her position very clearly. If the Holyrood regional government (as Westminster perceives it to be) tries to push for an illegal referendum, its leaders will be risking arrest for subversion; Sturgeon could end up with a similar fate to Lluís Companys.

      Do people living in Scotland wish to endure the violence that afflicted Ireland from 1916-22, and the enduring poverty that ensued in that country for the next 50 years? That is the only alternative for those Scots who wish to pursue independence now. Personally, I doubt if many would wish to experience that.

      It is a tragic situation, but I see no way out, other than to be patient and hope that in the 2030s, the UK political situation changes.

    237. Breeks says:

      Scotland snubbed in post Brexit Planning reports The National…

      Open goal No. 487 for Scotland to DEMAND and INSIST that the EU formally recognises the Claim of Right and Constitutional Sovereignty of the Scottish people and their right to political representation AS DOES WESTMINSTER.

      Taking bets the SNP does sweet fuck all.

    238. CameronB Brodie says:

      Care to support your assertions with some constitutional law?

    239. Dorothy Devine says:

      daodao . I would be well and truly dead by that time and I want to leave this earth knowing that the children and grandchildren of are well and truly free of Westminster and WMD’s poisoning the Clyde.

      Free to forge links with whoever they wish with ease. Free to study and travel in Europe. Free to assess the risks of war and refuse to partake in Washington/Westminster interference in other countries. Free to build a better country for all who live and work here.

    240. admiral says:

      Breeks says:
      19 January, 2020 at 10:40 am
      Happened to catch Brewer so far… random telly flick, I don’t watch the BBC as a rule.

      Happened to switch onto Marr on Sunday, and was soon reaching for the remote as soon as he announced Union Jack-et Murray as a guest. I wasn’t fast enough to miss the first, totally impartial and not-at-all-leading question – “don’t you agree that the only way for Labour to ever win a UK GE again is for Scotland to vote for you?” (I may be slightly paraphrasing).

      Jeez – the propaganda isn’t even subtle anymore.

    241. CameronB Brodie says:

      All Scotland is looking for is a legal respect of our cultural deference to England, as is allegedly guaranteed by the British constitution. Without a respect for cultural rights, there is not much point in hoping for your other human rights to be respected. Human rights are mutually supportive and indivisible from the individual. Apart from British human rights, which are ‘exceptional’ and don’t apply to those living in Scotland. Apparently we have no legal personality, and so no right to legal rights.

      Recognition and the International:
      Meanings, Limits, Manifestations

    242. Breeks says:

      daodao says:
      19 January, 2020 at 11:41 am

      Do people living in Scotland wish to endure the violence that afflicted Ireland from 1916-22, and the enduring poverty that ensued in that country for the next 50 years…

      Fancy yourself as our Gauleiter daodoa?

      Away and fuck off, and spend your time constructively, like reading up on the Claim of Right or the Declaration of Arbroath and then get somebody to explain it to you before you open your mouth here again.

    243. admiral says:

      daodao says:
      19 January, 2020 at 11:41 am

      Do people living in Scotland wish to endure the violence that afflicted Ireland from 1916-22, and the enduring poverty that ensued in that country for the next 50 years?

      In a nutshell, this is exactly why Scotland needs to get away from Britnat colonialism and imperialism – the explicit threat to wage war and to inflict state-sponsored violence and outright terrorism if we don’t kow-tow to our imperial masters.

      This is the case for the “precious union”!

    244. mike cassidy says:

      In post-Brexit Britain, Nicola Sturgeon can’t keep telling her troops that Indyref2 is round the corner. It isn’t

      Admiral 11.51

      Up here we know Labour don’t need Scottish MPS to win Westminster

      But they do think that down south.

      So that’s actually quite a nasty point to make to Ian Murray, isn’t it?

      Given Labour are not coming back in Scotland

      Effectively the point being made is

      Are you ever likely to win a UK GE again?


    245. daodao says:

      @ Breeks

      The Declaration of Arbroath will be 700 years old later in 2020 and has no legal relevance in today’s UK, however inspirational it may be to those who wish to see Scotland as an independent sovereign state. I am not wishing the state of affairs that I describe, merely stating the reality.

    246. mogabee says:

      Yes the SNP is actively going to start ‘campaigning’ for independence shortly.

      Yes they are talking about 2021 elections.

      No they aren’t talking of using said election as an independence one.

      No they aren’t going to bring home the MP’s.

      Yes they are saying that those MP’s will be useless down there and will be more visible at home.

      Yes they do have a ‘plan B’.

      Yes their ‘plan B’ is ‘plan A’.

    247. CameronB Brodie says:

      Do you support the principle of universal human rights, and do you imagine Brexit to be constitutionally legal? Judging from your contributions, I assume the answer is negative to the first, and positive for the latter. Is that a fair appraisal of your political outlook?

    248. robertknight says:

      Reading the contribution posted at 11:41, I think that ‘daodao’ could be Angus Robertson’s new nom de plume.

      Still trying to find a Piper or ten who can play “Ode to Joy” and who isn’t busy on the 31st.

    249. Bill Hume. says:

      Wings BTL has become a funny place where so many come to explain to us why Scotland can’t become independent.

      To all those who indulge in this pastime (or perhaps it’s a paid job), may I just say………

      FUCK OFF.

      That is all.

    250. Capella says:

      @ Republicofscotland – glad to hear that Alex Neil did well on the Gordon brewer programme. I heard it trailed on GMS with the added bonus that Jim Sillars and Kenny McAskill would also be invited to opine on behalf of the SNP. Heart sink – the usual antagonists – also I see that both Kevin McKenna and Iain Macwhirter have written opinion pieces today dissing Nicola Sturgeon’s plan to hold a referendum this year.

      This surge of anti Nicola copy is probably a good indication that the Indyref2 temperature is rising. There’s an interesting Sky trailer circulating about what happens when Scotland leaves the union. Is it a spoof? Don’t know. But it’s interesting:

    251. kapelmeister says:

      We’ve No Say, We Want Away!

    252. Breeks says:

      daodao says:
      19 January, 2020 at 12:12 pm
      @ Breeks

      The Declaration of Arbroath will be 700 years old later in 2020 and has no legal relevance in today’s UK, however inspirational it may be to those who wish to see Scotland as an independent sovereign state. I am not wishing the state of affairs that I describe, merely stating the reality.

      No, you are spouting shite which you know is untrue, and on top of that you are threatening Scotland with violent repression if it dares to stand by it’s Constitutional Rights in defiance of Westminster’s colonial subjugation. You were told to fuck off for that, so I won’t repeat it.

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one for those with plenty time on there hands. 🙂

      Reason, aesthetics & emancipation:
      Questions of identity and Representation in Critical Theory

    254. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Capella @ 11.20am says:

      “There is nothing the British Establishment want more than to “take down” Nicola Sturgeon.

      I disagree, I suggest there is nothing the British Establishment wants more than to take down Alex Salmond – he is the Scottish Nationalist they really fear.

    255. TJenny says:

      Capella – it’s a link to the trailer for COBRA.

      ‘Starring Robert Carlyle as Prime Minister Robert Sutherland and Victoria Hamilton as his Chief of Staff Anna Marshall, COBRA is a new Sky original production set in the heart of government during a major crisis.’

      Wached whole series, 6 eps, on catch-up. There was an interesting bit when nearly all the main power suppliers were lost owing to solar flares and only 3 giant power generators available. There were 4 areas in uk that had no power at all, London, Wales, Northumberland and Scotland.

      So I waited with bated breaath to see if the loser would be Scotland, but it wasn’t. I’ll say no more in case others want to watch it.

      But Macnessie’s spoof could well be referring to iScot in the future.

    256. cirsium says:

      @Capella. 1.03am
      How appropriate that Mr Brown is writing for The Guardian

      @Craig Murray, 10.48.
      regarding the hijacking of political movements by identity politics, this is an international perspective from Andre Vltchek

    257. TJenny says:

      Now I know why my comments show ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation.’ My details weren’t showing in wee boxes at comment space and I’d mistyped my email address on re-entering them – ah well, at least problem solved.

    258. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry if I appear hyper, I just recognise the impending peril that faces Scotland. Folk should try to remember that practitioners of the law view the law from inside the law. It is their world and it is rational. A critical legal stance views the law from the outside and seeks to improve the effectiveness of jurisprudence. Constitutional law tends towards the illiberal, without a respect for natural law, which Brexit disregards completely.

      British constitutionalism is not coherent with international human rights law. This is because of the assumed immutability of English law. Neither is Brexit coherent with the moral law reading of the British constitution. Subsequently, Brexit lack adequate legal foundations, IMHO.

      Social Movements, Collective Identity
      and Political Culture

    259. cirsium says:

      @Socrates MacSporran, 12:56pm
      I suggest there is nothing the British Establishment wants more than to take down Alex Salmond – he is the Scottish Nationalist they really fear.

      Agree. Hence the use of Kompromat.

    260. Clapper57 says:

      So the great Tory appeasement to those in the North..that is THE REAL North (English North) is to…as a mere TOKEN gesture…. consider the possibility of…..moving a load of privileged UNELECTED Lords up North (England’s North) in recognition of the desire…of those up North (England’s North) who voted for Brexit in order to rid themselves of ‘UNELECTED’ bureaucrats a La EU… it’s a case of letting them, up North (England’s North), eat cake which may be the Humble Pie variety.

      Meanwhile Lisa …potential Hammer of the Scots…Nandy thinks Labour HQ should move out of London too…somewhere up North…as in ….of course…England’s North…uncanny how both she and the Tories are aligned in their thinking…feed them crumbs from our table indeed….the best of gesture politics is THE new politics in post Brexit UKnotOK.

      Meanwhile….in Scotland…that is the North North of the English North..well we need to just, once again, suck it up….. like for a lifetime that will apparently last for an infinity… NOT voting , by a majority , for either Labour or Tory, means we, the Scots in the North North, need to be accepting to being dictated to and controlled….but that’s democracy UKnotOK style…while those lucky peeps up North (England’s North) get the prospect of Lords and Ladies, unelected by them or anyone, to grace them, up North (England’s North) with their mere presence to quell any dissent in feeling that they be forgotten and Tory promises to them be broken…like to those in the North North (Scotland) ….wow what a reward for voting Brexit up North (England’s North) may get…….from London…to York (possibly) with love the Lords may be coming….when will the many Brexit dividends end for those up North (England’s North)….

      Unfortunately they do not exist for those up North North (Scotland)….and never will….

      Royal comment :

      Funny how those over emotional members of the public were overcome with grief and also showed such empathy and sympathy for the young Prince Harry having to walk behind his mother’s coffin, in public, at his mother’s funeral…. are now stating…he can do what he wants as long as WE don’t have to pay for it….so pity is NOT eternal ….just fleeting and in the moment then …..meanwhile Prince Andrew sighs in relief that the heat has been taken off him…..another fleeting moment forgotten it appears….much to the relief of the royals and their media sycophants….God Save… all.

    261. Capella says:

      @ Socrates Macsporran – they have already taken down Alex Salmond and plan to get Nicola Sturgeon for meeting him in 2018. “She’ll be gone by April” is what I’ve heard more than once.

      Nicola Sturgeon is the most competent and respected politician in the UK. (No I don’t agree with the trans policy but the SNP are not the worst offenders in this issue). The effort to tarnish her reputation is far advanced. I have no intention of contributing to that.

      The closer we get to the referendum the nastier things get. Divide and rule, destroy successful leaders, instill fear and doubt in the voting public. Old, timeworn but normally successful tactics.

      Let’s stand firm against any attempt to divide the YES movement. That will upset all the right people.

    262. James Caldwell says:

      I turned on my television part of the way through the Gordon Brewer/Alex Neil interview this morning and, following the instructions on the screen, pressed the control to return to the start of the programme. After a few seconds it took me to Politics North West instead of Politics Scotland.

      The same thing happened yesterday when tried to replay part of late Sportscene programme and was redirected to Match of the day.

      Another reason not to pay the BBC Licence fee?

    263. Clapper57 says:

      I heard Ian Murray stated on Marr…that in order for Labour to win GE …they NEED…to win in Scotland.

      Well, I find that remarkable, given the contemptous and reckless comments with which prospective candidates for the Labour leadership, have used recently towards Scots.

      How come they are not trying to woo us and appease us with platitudes…why the tough talk…is this a new style of politics…the Get Em Telt method up there (Scotland)….while simultaneously adopting the Gently Gently method to those Up North (England)…..frankly Ian I think it’s going down like a fart in a bottle where the stench has been released. Do your colleagues not DO politics when they talk (down) to Scots?

      Trust me Ian….they only people the potential NEW leader of your party needs …are those whom they lost in the last GE AND t’others within THEIR (English) country…hence the mucho rhetoric about those in the North (England) being forgotten and in need of more investment, power etc etc…bet Southerners are feeling peeved that they seem to be ‘lost’ in the battle for you and your party to regain power….it seems it can never be a win win for your party……anywhere.

      Fortunately Scots CAN do the Maths…and no that 59 doth not make a UKnotOK WM government….to win that prize one really really needs to gain the votes of those seats, that in WM, represent the majority via you know where……so, that said, how many seats at WM represent English constituencies again ?…..AND who speaks for England asks John Redwood….Why would he ask that in your UKnotOK WM parliament….surely according to you it is ALL of our parliament…..see Ian…it just does not work as a concept this UKnotOK…there are way too many English Nationalist MP’s who will not concede that Scotland should be, will be ever heard….I think you also may concede this in your insistence that we , Scots, must remain within the confines of an institution that is, for Scotland, most definitely not fit for any purpose other than ensuring England and it’s people will be and are heard….always has been and always will be…

      Ian Murray the representative of Tory voters in Edinburgh.

      My how hard he is working for his ‘constituents’ to ensure Tory rule and the Union uber alles is maintained for them….for Scots in general ….not so much…quelle surprise.

    264. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      @Craig Murray

      If in coming months your Yes Minister skit proves — by pure coincidence only — to have close parallels in the real world, I will join much of the Yes movement in calling for Nicola’s head.

      Can you you give us a similar commitment that if it doesn’t, you’ll acknowledge this fact and apologise to her and us for the extremely serious — though purely coincidental — implications of your skit?

      You’re generally a man of honour, so this should be an easy commitment to make. I hope your health issues go away ASAP so you can continue your good work for our cause.

    265. mike cassidy says:

      Via revstu twitter.

      Well worth a read.

      Why David Baddiel feeds the trolls.

    266. robertknight says:

      Just wasted 20 minutes of my life reading over the piece in today’s National as to why BawJaws cannot persist in saying No.

      Fact is, he can.

      His concern are the 60+ million UK citizens who reside outwith Scotland – not the 5 million who dwell within.

      The UK Govt./Boris have said No to IndyRef2. To ask again is to repeat the same action in the hope of achieving a different result, which is the definition of insanity.

      Forget IndyRef2, forget any ‘consultative referendum’ in the absence of a S30 – the Yoons (voters and local authorities) would simply boycott it.

      Time for ‘Plan B’, and there’d better be one or SNP MPs and MSPs may be updating their CVs sooner than anticipated. Don’t get me wrong – I wouldn’t vote for anyone else, but I’ve no qualms in spoiling a ballot paper.

    267. Ottomanboi says:

      A little known example of early US imperialism.
      The ‘international community’ recognized the annexation, the British, to their credit, reluctantly.
      The Hawaiians are now an ethnic minority in their own country.

    268. crazycat says:

      @ robertknight at 4.44

      robertknight says:
      Don’t get me wrong – I wouldn’t vote for anyone else, but I’ve no qualms in spoiling a ballot paper.

      Yup. Plus that ballot paper provides an excellent space for explaining why it has been invalidated. I’ve considered that many times, and always restrained myself because I believe I have a duty to vote, but henceforth, unless a viable alternative presents itself, I suspect I will be overcoming my reticence.

    269. twathater says:

      @ Capella 11.25am as I have STATED on more than one occasion I agree with Most of your posts and comments the one @ 11.25 am cue bono taking down NS is correct many many people and organisations are desperate to cut the head off our particular snake , but also as we ALL know we are responsible for OUR actions

      Nicola has got herself into this position by adhering rigidly to her doctrine whilst promising the unwashed that everything will work out fine and to our advantage , she has continually moved the goalposts to align with our maisters moves whilst exhorting the activists to ever greater efforts

      These activists who I hugely admire and respect , through their endeavours won her and us a massive victory against the combined yoonionist onslaught of nae independence

      Yet barely weeks after this hard won and exhausting fight against the forces of evel, the REWARD is to be , more procrastination , more can kicking , more indecisiveness , more rhetoric , more promises , and more mibees , this aligned with more senior members publicly castrating a 2020 ref whilst once more exhorting the activists to give even greater effort and mibees a 2021 mandate will convince bozo

      I checked out Angus’s twitter and there are very many supporters and alleged activists who are questioning their allegiance and the parties efforts

    270. Capella says:

      @ twathater – Nicola has said she will respond to Boris Johnston’s refusal to grant a s30 at the end of the month. It’s not the end of the month.

      I have no idea what the plan is. Until she herself says what the plan is people are reacting to hearsay and gossip. I prefer to deal with facts. But I do understand why she might wait until the end of the month.

      Innocent until proven guilty is a good principle to live by. Whether it’s Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon, I’m confident that they are innocent. I might be wrong, of course, but until convinced otherwise I regard them as innocent.

      Boris Johnston and Donald Trump, on the other hand, have provided plenty of evidence that they are very bad people indeed.

      As Greta Thunberg says, we can all unite behind the science. Evidence based.

    271. Haggishunter says:

      Nandy, voiced what the whole of the LabServativeDem Brit nationalists think.

    272. Bill Hume. says:

      I think I might change my name on here to twathaterhater.

    273. CameronB Brodie says:

      If the FM supports the introduction of gender-ideology into law, she can’t be trusted with Scotland’s future. It is as black and white as that. So I think she needs to make a public statement of her position.

      Moral Error Theory and the
      Argument from Epistemic Reasons

      1. The Argument from Epistemic Reasons

      THE MORAL ERROR THEORY INVOLVES two components: a conceptual component and an ontological component</). According to the Mi<conceptual component, moral facts and claims entail facts and claims about categorical normative reasons. According to the ontological component, there are no categorical normative reasons.1

      Recently several philosophers, most notably Terence Cuneo, have tried to argue against the moral error theory on the grounds that it entails that there are no epistemic reasons for belief.2 One way, which is not exactly Cuneo’s way, of arguing against the error theory on these grounds I call the Argument from Epistemic Reasons.3

      According to this argument:
      (1) According to the moral error theory, there are no categorical normative reasons.
      (2) If there are no categorical normative reasons, then there are no epistemic reasons for belief.
      (3) But there are epistemic reasons for belief.
      (4) So there are categorical normative reasons (2, 3).
      (5) So the error theory is false (1, 4).

    274. RobertTheTruth says:

      Nicola Sturgeon will get the unequivocal support of all Independence supporters when she deserves it. She has piddled about trying to look like a stateswoman but doing little to advance the the movement towards Independence apart from asking yet again for support.

      Support has been given in bucket loads but nothing in return. Why on earth should a movement unite behind a failing strategy? The aim of Independence is as strong as ever – it is the SNP and NS who are letting it down.

      The movement will unite behind whomever gives it a reason to. Until then to keep asking for support is demoralising and wearisome. People flocked to the SNP post referendum because the desire for Independence had been awakened NOT because they needed to join a party per se. Those who would ask us to keep supporting a party who has lost its direction have an absolute cheek and demonstrate the same entitlement that lost Labour its support.

      The FM has just over a week to demonstrate something concrete for everyone to work towards. If nothing is forthcoming she should step down and let someone who does have a plan get on with it.

    275. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “She’ll be gone by April” is what I’ve heard more than once you say @Capella says at 1:35 pm

      I too have heard some vocal British Nationalists at my work saying similar. They have also intimated that NS will be found to have lied re: AS and it will all come out via ‘The trial’ and that the SNP will “tear themselves apart”!

      Additionally they have said it is common knowledge Embra way that there will also be some ‘dynamite’ salacious NS scandal of a personal nature (with a foreign Consulate implicated
      as well).

      Hence the gone by April – ie Position Untenable

      This will I’m sure be ably propagated, rinsed and repeated by BBC Shortbreid, NottheSTVNews and screamed from the front pages of the DeadTree Scrolls in every shop/newsagent/supermarket in the country (and kept warm via the ‘What the Papers Say’ bollocks).

      Time will tell whether this is bullshit, BritNat wishful thinking, framing/propaganda or the truth.

      One thing is for sure British Nationalists are going to throw everything(and then some) at the Indy Movement in general and the SNP in particular!

    276. Colin Alexander says:

      Towards the end of January 2020 the Greens bring a motion of no confidence in the Scot Govt over their failure to prevent Brexit.

      This motion is passed by the Scottish Parliament by majority vote. No vote of confidence follows within the next fortnight.

      New election is held, SNP manifesto:

      “The Scottish Parliament will become the Parliament of Scotland and will be the Supreme parliament which represents the sovereignty of the people of Scotland. Powers will be devolved from the Parliament of Scotland to UK Parliament until such time as the Union is dissolved.

      Following the election the SNP shall vote to hold an independence referendum within 3 months of the election.”

      Ah, we can hope and think good thoughts of what could be.

    277. CameronB Brodie says:

      Would someone please get this in front of the FM, as the SNP is being destroyed from within by third-wave feminist epistemology, and woke liberal intolerance.

      Third Wave Feminism’s Unhappy Marriage of
      Poststructuralism and Intersectionality Theory

    278. Capella says:

      @ Jockanese Wnd Talker – I too have heard of some very salacious smears of Nicola Sturgeon being whispered among the unionists. These people are ruthless.

      It doesn’t really matter who leads the SNP, their character will be damaged as much as possible by the British Establishment using every weapon at their disposal.

      What is remarkable is how resilient the YES movement has been up till now. But there is plenty evidence that the enemies of independence are getting desperate.

      @ CameronB Brodie – the SNP are conducting a second consultation on the GRA proposals. It’s up to everyone to respond to that. It runs until March. I’ll post reminders in February with the most up-to-date advice from ForWomenScotland and other groups. There is a great deal going on in the background. So I have not given up hope that the SNP will draw back from the brink. But have no doubt that the Greens, the Labour Party and the Liberal democrats will be adamant that this reform should go ahead. The Tories will weaponise it as they have promised to do.

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s hoping, though the apparent extent of ideological capture in the SNP, is alarming. Third-wave feminists tend to assume that the task of second-wave feminism has been completed successfully. As such, they aren’t too concerned with social emancipation. But women are still legally positioned as second class citizens, or their legal rights wouldn’t be so easily degraded. A bit like Scotland in yoonyawn.

      Third-wave feminists also tend to deny there are epistemic reasons for belief, reality is what you want it to be. As such, I don’t really think such a disposition is well suited to the task of emancipating Scotland from English cultural chauvinism.

      Full text.

      Women’s Liberation and Second-Wave Feminism: “The Personal is Political”

    280. robertknight says:

      Colin @ 6:31…

      Now that I could get behind.

      Along with keeping the paws of the Parly stewards off our EU flag outside Holyrood on the 31st.

      “Oh say does that star circled banner yet wave
      O’er the land that could be free, if the Scots would be brave”

    281. Ottomanboi says:

      Is there a link between the irrational, the sentimental and affective and authoritarianism.
      Totalitarian régimes have deployed kitsch, schmaltz and sentiment as a cover for abuses. Hitler and Stalin were manifest sentimentalists
      The flight from rationality in the contemporary, social media infested west exemplified by such aberrations as identitarianism, the new feminism, queer theory, extinction rebellion ‘millennialism’ and even the quasi-religious vegan fad which seem to walk arm in arm with prescriptive and intellectually insular attitudes is deeply concerning.
      That some in the SNP show such sympathies is also concerning. The Party sometimes gives the impression of being adrift, up crazy creek without a motor.
      Having come so far, It is all rather disappointing.

    282. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Aye, “These people are ruthless.” @Capella says at 6:42 pm

      All cornered animals are.

      Make no doubt about it the British Nationalists have painted themselves into a corner (and it is getting tighter and more claustrophobic for them by the day).

      It will get worse before it gets better.

    283. Capella says:

      @ CBB – policy capture goes way beyond the SNP and Scottish Government. It dates back to the 1990s and has quietly manipulated governments all over western Europe and North and South America, Australia and New Zealand to change their laws to enshrine a scientific shibboleth into the statute book.

      In fact, Scotland is being held up internationally as having some adults in the room who are questioning the blind acceptance of a delusion. If the Scottish Government wants to be world leading they could reverse the GRA and protect children and women from the gross intrusion into their privacy and removal of their rights.

    284. Mist001 says:

      @ robertknight

      Someone on here made a very good point the other day which was roughly that Boris Johnson has not said no to Indyref2. He has refused a Section 30 order. These are two different things.

      The original poster also pointed out that the only obstacle to Indyref2 is Nicola Sturgeon herself, since she has declared to all and sundry that she will not hold Indyref2 WITHOUT a Section 30 order, the so called ‘Gold Standard’.

      So to me, that means she either drops the Section 30 bit, or we waste all our time waiting for something which Boris Johnson has ruled out and which Sturgeon won’t take action without.

      Go figger.

    285. Fairliered says:

      The people who are trying to get rid of Nicola Sturgeon should be careful what they wish for. She may be replaced by someone who is prepared to fight for independence.

    286. Capella says:

      @ Fairliered – they have that covered too.

    287. Dr Jim says:

      The last of the Labouricans Ian Murray says Labour is nothing like the Tories and should make the people aware of that
      then Ian Murray goes on to say definitely NO never to Scottish Independence and definitely NO more power for the Labour party in Scotland to decide anything for itself or separate from the UK party NO never

      As you can see Ian Murray is nothing like the Tories, he is the Tories

    288. galamcennalath says:

      What would be the point of fighting another Holyrood election on the basis of multiple policies and a manifesto (like every other election)? Why would a pro Indy majority make any more difference than the last umpteen pro Indy majorities?

      The only useful Holyrood 2021 election would be if it were single issue. The objective would be over 50% in both regional list AND constituency votes for pro Indy parties standing on a ticket of delivering. Less on BOTH would be a failure even if the number of seats were pro indy.

      So it’s a gamble. The pro Indy totals could be less in the list vote than on constituency!

      Pro Indy majorities probably allow room for manoeuvre, they don’t mean moving rapidly to independence. That will always take >50% votes cast for an unambiguous plan for dissolution whatever the voting event is.

      What we do need is a commitment from pro Indy parties to move towards independence when >50% is actually achieved with or without Westminster cooperation.

      Post YES win cooperation won’t be forthcoming from London. Does anyone actually expect sensible negotiations from them? Consider their attitude to Brexit negotiations!

    289. galamcennalath says:

      Me @ 8:09pm

      2021 Holyrood outcomes …

      1) Failure to achieve an Indy majority in seats. A disaster.

      2) A majority of seats won on a policy of hold IndyRef2. That just perpetuates the current ongoing stagnation!

      3) Making it a single issue election on moving to independence (bypassing IndyRef2) and failing to get 50% in either constituency or list. A disaster. Therefore a warning gaming the system!

      4) Making it a single issue election on moving to independence and getting 50% in both constituency a list. A way forward.

    290. Clapper57 says:

      @ Dr Jim @ 7.44pm

      Yes Dr Jim….and with absolutely NO sense of irony he then said Labour in Scotland do not need to split from main party as have much autonomy….aye autonomy…like they’re the branch office talking shop…while HQ, who sit in WM, gets to make the actual REAL decisions…..i.e. the ones adopted as Labour policies…

      You, branch office, will do as yir telt …pretty much treating them the same way as they treat all us Scots…some in the branch office are STILL in WILLING denial though and are pining for the Blair years to be rekindled under another like minded NON Socialist….while a lot of Scots are now definitely NOT in denial….hence Labour in Scotland’s rapid decline.

      Funny how even losing seats in Scotland and yet they STILL, i.e. those in HQ , fail to acknowledge what is happening in Scottish politics…

      Actually they have NEVER acknowledged it….and never will as long as they fight for the Union to be maintained…their loss is our gain…for sure.

      Gordon Brown has booked another session for tomorrow…..invited guests…of course…if he really wants to make an impact then for greater visual effect they could have him climbing out of a coffin…lights dimmed…crashing thunder sound effects….perhaps his stylist could put him in a black cape…no make up required as facially he himself has that sorted…..this indeed would be in keeping with yet ANOTHER RETURN OF THE INTERVENTIONIST….at selected venues…usually NOT Scottish…we, Scots, are in the script Gordo quotes just not ALLOWED to be present to shout profanity at is inanity…

      It will be great will it not when eventually we see the back of him and far too many others to mention when we , as a country, finally escape and are truly F**ny Free….well that is F**nies of a certain variety aka uber Unionist current and past their sell by date politicians.

      That’s another rant in the bag…one hundred and eighty…Lol

    291. Shug says:

      If the greens crash the Scottish budget to get a Scottish parliament election will the Conservatives vote the snp budget through to stop an election

    292. meg merrilees says:

      To all those who are speculating that Nicola could be gone in the next few months and we’re done for…..

      Do not fall for the propaganda coming from desperate politics.

      The Independence movement is bigger than one man or one woman. We have proved that it is surviving despite Alex’s enforced absence. His belief has spurred us on to believe we can achieve this thing we all desire.

      Nicola has carried the banner thus far and possibly further – but if that is not to be then so be it…. but that will not kill my wish for independence. Will it kill yours?
      All Leaders are human, all humans can err but that doesn’t mean that the cause should ‘die’ with them.
      Are we truly saying that without Nicola or Alex we cannot achieve Independence.

      How about Mhairi Black, Joanna Cherry, Mike Russell, Angus Mac Neill, Mrs. Mc Tavish along the road, Mr. Smith up the hill….
      We don’t know who the next leader will be – it may be one of us.

      Someone else will stand forward and take on the mantle for this country is destined to be free. We all need to do our bit so let us keep our focus on the goal, WM has a load of sh*t lined up to try and stop us – are we really saying that we will lose heart because their tactics are working.

      Our generation has a chance that no other group of Scots has had for decades. Let’s not waste that chance.
      Believe that we will be free because we will.

      It’s comin’ yet for a’ that…

    293. Pete Barton says:

      Hi Peeps

      Thanks to Kenny, Iain and Colin for responding.

      Colin, apologies if it’s not your day job.

      You could however make a few bob on the side, 77 have been advertising.

      I’m a bit frustrated with things – sure, but then again I’ve never played 3d chess.

      If you desire the result you say you do, remember sometimes your generals cannot reveal their strategy.

      Kenny, thanks..your point is valid, and constructive.

      Iain, yours also.

      I still think Slab are the pawns in the game.

      Many among their support wish to see at the very least some form of democratic stance over Scotland’s right to choose it’s future.

      Brown and Leonard don’t cut the mustard anymore.

      As for Willie Rennie, talk about Stockholm syndrome.

      How many pieces of silver will it take, Willie?

      How some of them sleep at night, I don’t know.

      It’s time.

      Choosing the strategy is not as simple as it was.

    294. Mist001 says:

      Boris Johnson used and still uses a slogan; ‘Unleash Britains Potential’.

      The SNP/Indy could do worse than steal that and make it ‘Unleash Scotlands Potential’.

    295. “Dynamite salacious scandal about NS and A.n. other” …. Really ….

      This when a Prince of the Realm doesn’t regret befriending a Paedophile….
      Our current Prime minister is an acknowledged liar…
      Our current PM has children out of wedlock ( not that I’m bothered by this)…
      The current President of the United States is about to be Impeached for bringing the office into disrepute…


      Gossip is gossip, nothing new under the sun, – oh look, a squirrel!

    296. terence callachan says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has done a fantastic job.
      She has reduced Labour to one seat in Scotland from 48.

      She has promised a referendum this year 2020
      It’s now 19th January 2020 she had another eleven months to deliver
      When you choose a leader you put them in charge of choosing the way forward

      Give her the time to deliver what she says she will deliver

      If by 2021 , the first of January
      There is no Scottish independence referendum
      Then you can criticise her
      Sack her
      Replace her

      But until then
      Let her do her job and support her
      Even if you doubt she can carry it off

      Sure there are high profile doubters who say she cannot deliver

      But they are guessing
      They do not have all the information that Nicola Sturgeon has
      Nicola Sturgeon could easily call a Scottish independence referendum without Westminster’s agreement
      People say she won’t do it
      How do they know she won’t ?

      The truth is they don’t know they are guessing
      OK they may be expert guesses but they are still guesses

      Give Nicola sturgeon til December 31st 2020 to deliver a Scottish independence referendum

    297. Dan says:

      Re. A second pro Scottish Independent minded party contesting regional list only seats in a future Scottish election at some point.

      This subject was briefly touched on today during a discussion with a YES group, and the idea was pretty much rubbished by several because “splitting the SNP vote”, “the Unionist parties will just do the same”, and effectively “Scots are too thick to understand the voting system”.

      TBH that seemed to me to highlight the lack of confidence some have in the abilities of either themselves or the wider YES movement to campaign and educate the Scottish electorate.
      Are the following figures really too difficult to explain to people so they can understand?

      954K SNP list votes = 4 SNP List Seats
      960K Labour and Conservative list votes = 45 Unionist Party List Seats

      Stu did post the following article last August with some thoughts and rough numbers relating to a specific Wings Party, rather than a possibly more acceptable to the wider electorate YES Party.

      Off the back of today’s blether and knowing where we are now, I wonder if there has been any further analysis on the viability of the idea taking into account the recent vote shares from Dec. General Election result and collapse of Labour, plus the knowledge that the UK is now leaving the EU at the end of this month.

      Iirc there may also be poll results due to be published in next day or so as several folk had mentioned they had completed a survey.

    298. Dr Jim says:

      I’m a SNP member and funder, everybody here knows that, but when we vote for a political party we do so on the basis of a promise made to us by that political party, there are no ifs or buts about it, they promise, we vote, they deliver on the outcome

      If an extenuating cricumstance like a war or an earth shattering event happens the population would be right to say well that’s different so we wait a little bit til that’s sorted then we proceed to do what was promised, but that hasn’t happened, all that’s happened is a man in another country said he’s not going to allow the political party we voted for to deliver their promise to us

      Now as yet the leader of the party we voted for hasn’t told us what she intends to do about this, we’ve heard loads of waffling from loads of people but nothing except the original plan which was “There will be a referendum in 2020”

      If the leader of the party we voted for (and I still think she’s a brilliant person) doesn’t tell us how she intends to honour that promise made to us, (and be in no doubt I don’t care how she goes about it), over what we voted for in the next two weeks then the people of Scotland will have been (insert adjective here) and it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide what we’re going to do about it as we will no longer have a government in Scotland who has the power to make or honour promises anymore, it doesn’t matter which party anybody votes for NONE of them can make a promise and keep it because it can be overuled at the will of Westminster and whoever is in charge of that place

      The result of this is Scotland will not be a country anymore, if it ever was, we will in effect be a colony under English rule and I will not under any circumstances accept that
      There are many others like me who refuse to accept this also

      I have only two weeks of faith left in me then I will consider myself stateless, like a Palestinian or a person of any other country that loses it’s status and along with other reasonable people will be forced to become unreasonable

    299. Colin Alexander says:


      Re: Scot Govt budget

      “If the parliament is completely deadlocked, it is possible that an election would have to be called to break it.

      This would require either a two-thirds majority of MSPs backing such a move, or the government resigning or being forced from power in a confidence vote and no replacement being agreed”.

      Could be a way of forcing a quick election using it as a plebiscite election on taking back Scottish sovereignty to a parliament in Scotland?

      Then the parliament in Scotland can run it’s own “sovereign” empowered indyref.

    300. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I hope Stu does not mind my saying this here, but the burden of knowing vital things we are legally constrained from publishing, but which explain much of the apparently inexplicable, has been weighing very heavily on several of us for months. It also naturally resulted in a very definite shift in our attitudes towards the SNP leadership for which we got huge criticism, and yet we were not allowed to say why.

      Sorry if that is a bit cryptic. Stu may not agree with precisely how I have put that.”

      I think you’ve put it very well. I feel exactly the same.

    301. Kenny J says:

      ” Colin Alexander says:
      19 January, 2020 at 6:31 pm

      Towards the end of January 2020 the Greens bring a motion of no confidence in the Scot Govt over their failure to prevent Brexit.

      This motion is passed by the Scottish Parliament by majority vote. No vote of confidence follows within the next fortnight.

      New election is held, SNP manifesto:

      “The Scottish Parliament will become the Parliament of Scotland and will be the Supreme parliament which represents the sovereignty of the people of Scotland. Powers will be devolved from the Parliament of Scotland to UK Parliament until such time as the Union is dissolved.”

      I’d go for that, with the proviso that we wait to see the results of James Kelly,s wee quiz. Then decide.

    302. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Shug at 8:42 pm.

      You typed,
      “If the greens crash the Scottish budget to get a Scottish parliament election will the Conservatives vote the snp budget through to stop an election”

      As someone once said, “interesting times”…

      And as I typed last night, there should be publication of the way forward to independence within 24 hours of the EU exit on the 31st (or the 31rd, if you so desire) at 11pm, or there will be a lot of disappointed/angry Yessers.

      Maybe there will be a Holyrood election in the next few months, used as a plebiscite election for independence, bypassing the need for a referendum.

      Who knows?

    303. Doug says:

      Re: this cryptic stuff. Maybe it’s time for martyrdom, for the good of an individual, but more importantly for the good of an independent Scotland?

    304. Effijy says:

      Some posts referring Alex Salmond’s pending case.

      Can anyone tell me what is happening to Bojo after 2
      Woman accused him of grouping them between his adulterous

      Is anything being investigated about the American woman who’s
      Business was given access to government funded enterprises.
      The interaction between the two leaves me in no doubt what BJ, Sorry Bojo
      Was getting out of it.

    305. K1 says:

      Well it’s abundantly clear that information was received from some source/sources that would have resulted in the changed output from Wings over the past few months and many of us have been curious about that aspect for just as long.

      So I do welcome Craig Murray’s somewhat cryptic reference to the ‘actual’ fact of this rather than just plain avoidance of acknowledgement of any such thing since the changes began.

      I would not wish to be ‘burdened’ with any information that some of you may have to carry, but at least now I feel I can ‘understand’ some of the changed approach in the light of this ‘clue’ that Craig has given us.

      I do wish there was a ‘whistleblowing’ outlet that people could utilise and maybe the rest of us could get wind of that ‘at the moment’ ‘legally constrained from publishing’ information.

      Don’t like this one bit, if it’s as serous as it sounds this doesn’t bode well for any of us.

    306. shug says:

      if we end up with an election we definitely want a wings party to stuff the unionist listers

    307. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Re: this cryptic stuff. Maybe it’s time for martyrdom”

      Aye? And who are you volunteering to be martyred?

    308. Doug says:

      I’m free on Wednesdays

    309. K1 says:

      Thing is though, why not just have put it out that there had been some ‘vital’ stuff that you are ‘legally constrained from publishing’, even that would have been helpful?

      Wings was trusted enough that that in itself would have alerted most of us that something deeply ‘unsettling’ is at play within the SNP hierarchy instead of the bun fight that has ensued btl, where a split along lines of ‘for and again’t SNP has played out for months now, I believe now, on a false premise.

      Could have saved us months of infighting. No?

    310. K1 says:

      Well you’re halfway to martyrdom already* LOL

      (*this is a joke)

    311. Kenny J says:

      A good bit off-topic here, but reading the Rev,s ? twitter comment on Jim Murphy, who was bringing tablets from on high 4 days ago, I thought I would spend a few minutes looking at his Arden Strategies, which you can see on one of his slides.

      So I give you big Jim, former minister of the Crown, slayer of SNP dragons (failed) and all around good guy and MD of the above, who you might think was a big fromage in the presentation business.

      Well, not quite. It would seem the bold boy, according to his accounts, is chief cook and bottle washer, MD, and Secretary of said company. Aye, thats it. His business address is at 118 Pall Mall,an accomodation address along with 166 others, in fact, it can be a letter drop only if you want.
      Accounts show earnings, if I’m right, of a couple of £K last year.
      So, who is backing Slim Jim when he calls the World’s press to pronounce on they Jocks. A complete charlatan, a Wizard of Oz, a King wie nae claes, a man of straw, bigged up by the Loyalist Press, for us to be impressed by. Or, as we used to say in the yards, jist a fuck**.
      First him, then the arsehole, son of the manse, financial genius, and sanctimonius bastard, Broon. Probably goes to his local church and does an impression of Holy Willie every Sunday. Who fu** next. Remember him every time you pay any insurance.

    312. Gary45% says:

      Dr Jim@9.10
      Nicely put, every single word you wrote speaks for me.
      Nice One.

    313. Dr Jim says:

      @Gary45% 10:35pm

      There are too many people loading this onto the back of the SNP as if it’s all entirely their fault and I think that’s because they have other agendas, I’m not in that camp at all, if England can do this to one party they can do it to all as and when they please and that’s a garbage that every self respecting Scot of who favours any party should not put up with

      The Unionists might think, well that’s us we won, but they didn’t, they just allowed Westminster to exercise total control over every aspect of our lives no matter what any of us support and that’s dictatorship by any definition of the word

    314. TJenny says:

      What if:

      NS at 11.01pm on 31/01, after UK has formally left EU, announces;

      As BJ/Westminster govt obdurately refuses to acknowledge Scotland’s right to self determinaton by denying a second indy ref, I will use the mandate given by the Scottish people, who overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU by 62%, to keep Scotland in the EU.

      It has been agreed with EU, that Scotland will temporarily become an EU ‘protectorate’ until we finalise negotiations of Scotlands indy with the WM govt.

      It is therefore imperative that WM govt appreciate that this
      means none of Scotlands resources can be included in WM/EU negotiations.

      Once negotiations are completed and Scotland is independant, there can be a confirmatory referendum on maintaining our indy state or rejoining the UK.

      Watch BJ splutter we didnae mean it ‘course you can have your indy ref (’cause the UK establishment will nobble it).

      Too late says NS, thank you and goodnight. 😉

      Ah well, a girl can dream, ’cause if you don’t have a dream, how you gonna make dream come true?

    315. Kenny J says:

      I put up a post last night, but it seems to have gone into the ether.
      One might have thought that Ms. Sturgeon, knowing that after her letter was delivered to Mr. Johnson, that it would come back with a niet grazi, and return to sender on it.
      You might also think that there would be a second to him, all ready composed, stamped, addressed and reday to be popped in a post box, telling him what to do.
      But no, we have to wait till the end of the month while Ms. Sturgeon cogitates a bit,and saves for a second class, cos that’s what we are, stamp.

    316. Dr Jim says:

      Has Jim Sillars not got any family who can stop him sputtering his senility all over the airwaves for the media to take advantage of the old duffer, deary me, Margot woulda slapped him wae an ice cream cone and telt him tae shut his gob tae the press

      Still, money can buy folk and pay them to say anything

    317. Mist001 says:

      That would be mindblowing but………..It’s the SNP.

    318. Capella says:

      @ TJenny 12.56 – thx – just read your explanation of the COBRA clip. I thought the spoof was brilliant though I was taken in for a while. Should be circulated far and wide!

    319. Pete Barton says:

      @ Kenny J:

      I believe a lady always keeps a gentleman waiting.

      I like that.

      Timing, as you know folks..

      Is everything.

    320. TJenny says:

      Capella – indeed, but that’d definitely entrench WM’s stance against indy ;-(

    321. Craig Murray says:

      Doug and K1

      Please do look at my blog. I have said the maximum that can be said without potentially going to jail for a considerable period. I may have overstepped that bound.

    322. Pete Barton says:

      Well then, it’s time to ca canny.

      Thanks for the reminder Craig.

    323. Craig Murray says:

      Unionist Media BDSM Club

      I can certainly give you that commitment, with all my heart. But please bear in mind that it is very probable indeed that the judge will reveal that the names of the accusers must be protected. So that is going to make it difficult to prove to you that what I have written is true.

      I can also assure you that if I did not have 100% certainty – not 99%, I really mean 100% – I would not have written.

    324. Craig Murray says:


      May I assure you that what I am referring to has nothing whatsoever to do with Ms Sturgeon’s personal life which is entirely her own affair and she has every right to keep private.

    325. Capella says:

      @ Craig Murray – I think you have a promising career as writer of political comedy. However, the plot line is a bit thin. You need to work on motive. Most criminals have something to gain from their wrongdoing. A crim who incriminates him/herself for no apparent benefit is not credible.

      Hope your health improves soon and you are fit for the next Indy event.

    326. Capella says:

      @ Craig Murray – we have crossed wires! I’m sure you intended no reference to NS private life. Unionist are the guilty parties there. If you are at the Arbroath march then I hope to say hello. You do a great deal for the Indy cause and I appreciate that.

    327. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:


      If Nicola appeared on a podium tomorrow flanked by Merkel and Macron declaring UDI with the full support of not just the EU but all of NATO, this thread would still be 50% “Well, why didn’t she do it SOONER?’

      I was reading again her tweeted response to Generalissimo Johnson’s rejection of the S30, in which she promises a response by the end of this month (could be tomorrow). And the fact is she did end her tweet with #indyref2020.

      So if her announcement kills off hopes of #indyref2020 that will have been just a ridiculous tease for the indy movement, so much so that it’s hard to know what to make of it. Maybe she’ll go for autumn this year after all?


      That commitment is appreciated. I’d expect no less of you.

    328. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Craig Murray @ 09:55,
      Rev. Stuart Campbell @ 21:19,

      Oh what a burden you über-privileged have to carry, while you go about your business of mote-beholding of those you consider privileged. One wanna-be elite attacking another presumed elite. How frightfully incestuous. My heart bleeds for you. But a burden that must be manfully borne for our sake, we ignorant peons, of course.

      Pardon me though for wondering about the reliability of your unmentionable sources. Just as about all these hints and allegations floating around the ether these days about Nicola, aided and abetted by an increasing drumbeat of industrious miserabilists on here and elsewhere, all absolutely desperate to displace the one person who has achieved more traction with the necessary soft-no’s at home and leaders abroad of late than anyone else, and whom the posturing (but desperately scared) BritNats clearly fear the most.

      As somebody upthread rightfully said, “cui bono” here?

    329. Craig Murray says:

      Robert Sutherland

      The hatred and bile dripping from your comments aimed at Stu and me are inexcusable.

      I am not stupid and nor is Stu. There is no doubt whatsoever about the accuracy of our information. We happen to have the two largest online media outlets in Scotland, and because of this we do indeed possess information which you do not. I in no way make any claim as you imply that this makes me superior to you. But nor can I understand why you should be so absolutely furious at the idea Stu and I may know something you do not.

      We are constrained from publishing what we know for a very open reason – the law of contempt of court.

      I did not want this to happen. I did not want to find myself in a position of conflict with fellow Indy supporters. I very much wish none of this awful situation had ever arisen. But there you are.

      I am telling you that I have indisputably accurate information. There is no room for faulty sources or misunderstanding. Either you accept that, or you allege that I – and Stu who has confirmed his position also – are both brazen and deliberate liars.

    330. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “But a burden that must be manfully borne for our sake, we ignorant peons, of course.”

      Well, not so much for your sake as because we don’t want to go to jail.

      Otherwise, y’know, fuck right off.

    331. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Thing is though, why not just have put it out that there had been some ‘vital’ stuff that you are ‘legally constrained from publishing’, even that would have been helpful?”

      If you’d been paying attention properly you’d have noticed that I’ve been doing that for most of the last year.

    332. Chic McGregor says:


      How do you and Craig know you are not being fed misinformation?

      It would be a classic Britnat ploy would it not?

    333. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Trust me, we’re not.

    334. Al-Stuart says:

      Dear Ambassador Murray,

      I hope your recovery goes well. Your contribution to democracy in Scotland still has much of its journey to complete.

      Thank you for the fan fiction article.

      Your screenplay struck a worrying note and as with you, I must avail myself of some information now and here. But also counsel others to be circumspect because the stakes are becoming very high as Scotland heads for the UK exit door and those marshalled Against Scottish Independence may use all manner of legal mechanisms to strike fear into the 45% of 2014.

      Craig, most Scots know that our unique judicial system has three verdicts. As a former officer of the law, I believe we have four verdicts and in the current circumstances every Independence supporter needs to know the fourth as there is a risk it may appear and I would wish Wingers to know what it looks like so they can recognise the aroma of rodent if it offends their senses.

      The fourth verdict is actually a result and hybrid of legal precedent and might, in certain circumstances lead to a guilty verdict in the balance of probabilities. In other words a guilty verdict if 51% proven. An utter ba$tardisation of Scots Law, but one we should be aware of.

      Here is the turgid risk within the list…

      1). Not Guilty.
      2). Not Proven.
      3). Guilty by Moorov Doctrine.
      4). Guilty.

      Stuart Campbell has the forensic skillset to work out the odds. Though not needed in such an empirical thesis. We go from 30% natural odds of being found guilty to 50% ease of a guilty verdict through the sin that a screenplay might term: Legal meandering of the gerry.

      Of course all of this is just my effort at giving you a Mark Kermode screenplay critique of your fan fiction 😉

      Craig, it was your use of the words “more of” in that fan fiction that knocked me six foot sideways.

      I hope the counsel of great men read this and factor it into their brief.

      The gloves are off and knuckle dusters engraved with Butchers Apron adorn fist and feet. We always knew Scottish Independence deniers would get ugly. This is truly septic cesspit.

      A very general review of the Moorov Doctrine can be viewed here:

    335. Craig Murray says:


      100% certainty.

    336. Craig Murray says:


      Plainly “more of” and “Moorov” was one of the many astonishing coincidences between my fictional article and the case to which you refer. I am going to bed now as I am imposing on Stu too much.

    337. Chic McGregor says:

      Thanks for a sleepless night guys.

    338. twathater says:

      @ Bill Hume 6.05pm is there some reason you want to be known as twathaterhater is there something in my comment that is incorrect or am I misreading the current situation , I would be happy for you to enlighten me as to the correct situation as it stands or your reading of it

    339. TJenny says:

      twathater – does twathaterhater no = a twat? 😉

    340. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Voulez-vous coucher avec moi, ce soir.

    341. Kangaroo says:

      There is a new legal case pending on whether Scottish Parliament can hold a Referendum without Westminsters agreement. Details here
      It concludes that it probably can, but ultimately a judgement needs to be given. (Cui bono – the lawyers; naturally).

      In its arguments it indicates that the Union with Ireland Act 1801 stated that the two Kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland would be united “forever after”. That was torn up by the Easter rising of 1916 and then in 1921 by a new Treaty. This demonstrated that the words “forever after” was a Political aspiration rather than having legal effect. So similar words in the 1707 Treaty should be regarded in the same way.
      Further, in 1920 the Government of Ireland act created Northern Ireland as a devolved legislature and gave Stormont the right to determine whether it would leave the Irish Free State or not. Ultimately it chose to join GB. It was this decision of a devolved legislature that created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

      So I wonder out loud..What happens to Northern Ireland when the UK of GB dissolves? It presumably has to make a decision, with agreement of the other party to either
      a) be part of Ireland,
      b) be part of Scotland,
      c) be part of England, or
      d) be on its own.

      Any thoughts?

    342. twathater says:

      @ TJenny 1.10am I could not be so bold ,anyhoo like Chic Mac with awe this secrecy and double entendre I don’t think I’ll be able tae sleep

    343. Liz g says:

      Robert J Sutherland @ 11.55
      That was horrible Robert J….. If even half of the position the Rev and Craig are taking is a quarter true…
      Don’t you have questions?
      And not of their motives…But rather, a bit of transparency that could debunk their take?
      It wouldn’t… Or at least it shouldn’t, be all that difficult!
      I don’t know what social circles you run in… But.. and it’s a big but….
      I’m an absolute nobody in the Indy Campaign,I have no connections,no special knowledge and no way of getting any!
      BUT ( told ye it was big 🙂 )
      I’m hearing pretty much the same thing… All is not as it seems to be…. And you have no idea how much I hope I’m wrong Robert J, I’ll be more than happy to eat humble pie.
      AND,… Being right has nae benefits of any description fur me!
      Think Robert!!!

    344. TJenny says:

      twathater – exciting innit? Anyway, sweet dreams. (Starts humming The Third Man theme). 😉

    345. Liz g says:

      Kangaroo @ 1.40am
      Well… Firstly,still thinkin of ye,and your Country… stay safe my friend.. 🙂
      What the “” Forever After “” part means, as far as I understand it is … For the life of the Treaty…
      While the Treaty is a live document “Forever After Applies” it didn’t need updated or has a ” sunset ” clause.
      We know this because!
      Forever Ever After,would — BIND — the Westminster Parliament.
      It’s been very clear… It doesn’t want to DO that 🙂

      Sometimes this unwritten shit has it’s positives 🙂

    346. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Craig Murray @ 00:11,

      Oooh, veiled threats now. Not a good look for a self-appointed champion of the people. (Though frankly, I have never rated you in that role. As neither did the SNP. Nothing personal in it now, though, eh?)

      You supply vague nods and winks that we just have to meekly accept on your bland assurance. Under hint of a big stick if necessary. You could instead have kept modestly schtum and let things unfold as they will, but oh no, you just couldn’t resist a wee bit of vainglorious self-publicity, could you? (See comment above.) Maybe if we at least knew the source, we might be more inclined to be supportive. Or again, maybe quite the reverse!

      Given Stu’s addendum, one might deduce it could just possibly not be unconnected with a certain personage facing an upcoming trial.

      Hark! Do I hear the baleful sound of various personal axes being keenly ground in unison? A harmony of sorts, but not necessarily one obviously conducive to the cause of advancing independence…

    347. Liz g says:

      Robert j Sutherland @ 3.17am
      Stop it Robert J,and stop it now..
      You are so very wrong my friend !

    348. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Liz g @ 02:25,

      What bothers me, Liz, is that I am getting the distinct impression that motivations here are becoming rather more frustratedly personal than anything more positive and noble. Rather too much ego and wounded self-pride.

      I’m a simple and straightforward person. If someone has some knowledge that they can back up with provable facts, they should come out with it, or otherwise haud their wheesht. Full transparency or nothing. Everything in its proper time. Not premature hints without accompanying substance, or unsubstantiated smears. Whom exactly does that assist?

      We’re supposed to be the ones who tell it straight, are we not?

      What I can’t stand is anyone making veiled allegations of dirty work afoot, and particularly directing them against someone who has worked diligently to promote the cause of independence, and who so far has always played a straight bat with us, the people. Vague aspersions cast at someone who is obviously greatly feared by our real opponents. Again, whom does that serve?

      If there is something of real substance, let it come out, then we can all judge it for what we believe it’s worth.

      Instead, there has been rather too much deliberately targeted and utterly unsubstantiated muck flying around the blogosphere of late, and not only on this website. Which, intentionally or otherwise, can only aid and abet the enemies of independence. Some of whom are now over this particular website like a veritable plague of flies.

      Very many of us are getting frustrated at the slow-mo political game of chess that is necessarily being played out at the moment, and (as you should well know) I have long advocated a free and open discussion on here as to positive ways and means to move forward, including genuine concerns about strategy and policy where apppropriate. But I can’t abide wanton personal backstabbing from those who give every impression of suffering from other kinds of frustration entirely: immoderate self-importance or thwarted ego.

    349. Breeks says:

      I’m not party to anybody’s secrets, nor do I have the inside track on anything, but whatever the rights and wrongs of who did what to whom, the one crime they won’t be forgiven for is costing Scotland it’s Independence and selling out our Nation’s interests, and to be explicit, I hold the defeat of Brexit to feature massively in the Nation’s Interests where we are sailing perilously close to crushing defeat, which might literally crush our economy and interests.

      We have all lived to see the past three years of stasis, fighting elections while avoiding the word “independence”, and witnessed the craven failure to weaponise either Brexit, Scotland’s Democratic rejection of Brexit, Scotland’s ancient Sovereign Constitution, the Claim of Right, Westminster’s attempt to usurp Scottish Sovereignty and supplant it with unconstitutional colonial subjugation contrary to International Law. Progress? Three years of purgatory which has felt like 30.

      Instead, we suffer the great poverty of Constitutional ambition, that fights upon the basis that the deprivations of Brexit once they arrive will fuel resentment which manifests itself as a surge in support for Independence, will lead to revolution by ballot, and an end to the Union… but a Union which is already telegraphing it’s intention to delegitimise and discredit any referendum constitutionally and refuse to recognise the result, while a toxic propagandising media tailors it’s indoctrination to worm it’s way into our psyche… and with Scotland’s Sovereignty still mired in obscure ambiguity, Westminster seems likely to brass it out and get away with it.

      The SNP bods ask me to trust Nicola and meet them half way, but how can I? We have an inarticulate, static, linear strategy which even the SNP cannot explain, as mandate after mandate disappears in the rear view mirror; a strategy so profound it can be defeated by the UK Prime Minister arbitrarily saying ‘no’ based upon a facile and commonplace turn of expression. If that is evidence of our “marvellous” government, then small wonder indeed that Scotland couldn’t gain a seat in the discussions about it’s interests in Brexit Negotiations. Our Government is a paper tiger and it still couldn’t slide itself under the door.

      Our Scottish Government has days left to achieve success in matters it hasn’t even engaged with for over three years. We ache to see a master stroke of genius before 31st January, but there is so little time, and to my knowledge, no matter of any relevance to Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty featuring in any caseload or schedule in any Constitutional Courtroom, anywhere.

      Scotland’s fight on 31st of January will be holding hands around a forlorn flag pole. I don’t feel angry. I feel devastated and ashamed.

    350. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      Well said.

      I keep thinking of that cartoon on the front page of the (then) Glasgow Herald after the ’79 referendum. The cage door open but the cowardly lion won’t come out…


      (Just had a hunt for it there but no joy…anyone know the one I mean? Remember the artist?)

    351. Col says:

      I have just witnessed the worst conversation ever. Brian Taylor of the BBC asserting that the SNP will definitely not be able to be gifted a referendum

    352. Col says:

      I have just witnessed the worst conversation ever. Brian Taylor of the BBC asserting that the SNP will definitely not be able to be gifted a referendum. No argument against. I just listened to ANOTHER SNP mother fucker on the radio. Talking about 5 and 10years ahead. Within the UK. FUCK, FUCK! WE Have been led down a path here haven’t we! Michael nathison. Go and fuck yourself!

    353. Col says:

      Anyone listen to the bbcs one sided view on another referendum now?

    354. Dr Jim says:


      Heard it all, no more than expected, there are folk from everywhere flying kites all over the place, we wait and see

    355. Effijy says:

      Step carefully!
      If we lost Indy ref 2 the Tories will say it’s proof
      Scots don’t want even a deceived government so
      It can be closed down save £millions and you
      Will be happy under the fascist heel of Westminster

      Just a few more days until we know the next move.

      We will not be dragged out against our will and England will know it.

    356. Contrary says:

      So, I’ve just heard on the radio, this is GMS radio Scotland, so I do not entirely trust the source, that Nicola Sturgeon has ‘ruled out a consultative referendum’ ‘because unionists might boycott it’.

      Now, first off, a consultative referendum is fine, it would be a poll, whether or not anyone ‘boycotts’ it, but did she actually say that? That seems to encourage boycott and imply that there is no value in a consultative referendum – which is not true. It isn’t ‘ideal’, but as long as people are told what it shows – whether or not there is an appetite, and it is official enough to take to the UN international law people. It’ll be easier to get votes in this than in the covenant voting method.

      Now, second off, I was promised a referendum this year, and so expect one, so ruling out a legal referendum for no good reason at this stage is not a good, political, move. I can only hope 50% that a legal ruling might say a referendum on independence is within the competence of the Scot parliament, and so will force their hand. I would have hoped that endless mandates and the SNPs own promises would have forced their hand politically before now – but all we appear to get is endless ruling things out. There shouldn’t have to be any ‘forcing of hands’, but there we are.

      I am not happy to wait until the next Scottish elections – at this stage we know that’ll make no difference as it hasn’t up until now. I think the leadership of the SNP needs to either piss or get off the pot, I think the phrase it.

      if anyone can be bothered watching this, this is Nicola Sturgeon giving a presentation to the UN human rights committee, last February, I didn’t post it at the time, because I found it uncomfortable watching – the uncomfortable body language by Nicola and her handler, and many of the questions centred round how much influence she has on the UK government. At 24mins in, she is asked about GRA and how she defines ‘woman’, she avoided answering that last question (alarm bells in my head), and told us that she herself does not feel threatened – really? A powerful woman that conforms nicely to most gender stereotypes doesn’t feel threatened, so the rest of women in Scotland,,, what? Shouldn’t either? (Strong alarm bells in my head). So she said that Scotland would be having the debate on gender issues – I am still waiting on this debate. All I have seen is Joanna Cherry and others in the party getting abuse for trying to start the debate, and get no support from the leadership. There has been no attempt to bring discussion out to the wider public, and the consultation is not a ‘wider debate’. I suspect infection of ideological extremism, and not of the kind we are interested in.

      UN human rights committee

      Now, obviously it has been a busy year, but the SNP as a political party (rather than that in government) could have – maybe – been doing much more, their actions have been late and weak. This is no time to be incredulous and naive. All polititians are hypocritical self-serving etc, I am only singling out the SNP because I joined them as a show of support thinking they would come through (or be forced to come through) – the forcing might still happen, but their chat of 2021 is not good enough. So,,, (nose, spite and face stuff),

      I will be withdrawing any monetary support to the SNP this year (unless there is a referendum commitment)
      I will not be voting for them again – the alternatives? I’ll take that as it comes, though there are not many options for ‘having my voice’. Maybe I should campaign for spoiling the ballot paper. I’ll have to see how things unfold.

      I should say that if I was more involved in the SNP I would be trying to change the hierarchy from within, but I have neither time nor energy, so punishment is the only recourse I have. (Their awareness of economical matters is also shit, they should have given Tim Rideout their full support)

    357. Almond Chutney says:

      The United Kingdom will leave the European Union. This is a good thing, multiple dependencies on more sovereign parliaments is bad for any government. The Scottish government should focus more on gaining devolved powers and judiciaries from the UK itself, rather than seek to remain shackled to Brussels while still tied down by Westminster. I mean what the actual fuck is your First Minister doing to Scotland exactly?

    358. Craig Murray says:

      Robert J Sutherland,

      I have read and re-read what I posted to you and there is nothing in it that, on even the most stretched interpretation, could in any way be considered a threat of any kind by any rational person.

    359. kapelmeister says:

      “Stop marching and start thinking” says Jimbo Sillars.

      But I think it was Nietzsche who said that you should never trust a thought that did not come by walking….that a sedentary life is the real sin against the Holy Spirit.

    360. Kangaroo says:

      Does anyone know when Royal Assent is expected for
      a) the SG Referendum Bill, and/or

      b) The WM EU Withdrawal Bill.

      c) when is the EU Parliament discussing/approving the UK Brexit

      Ta in advance

    361. kapelmeister says:

      Almond Chutney…..puke!

    362. Almond Chutney says:

      Robert J. Sutherland:

      You supply vague nods and winks that we just have to meekly accept on your bland assurance.

      Listen, from a Unionist standing, you’re spurting utter bullshit.

      It’s up to you to hold skepticism or not from anything that would class itself as an information provider, nobody is telling you this website is gospel, so you make your own assumptions rather than be a whiney bitch.

    363. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Almond chutney & gammon – luvverly jubberly!


    364. Almond Chutney says:

      ‘kapelmeister says:
      Almond Chutney…..puke!’

      Clever, you gonna grow up now?

    365. robertknight says:

      Almond Chutney. Where to start? By…

      Encouraging you to go and read up on the topic, (non-MSM sources), speak to folk, visit to experience at first hand, then come back in a few months when you’re reasonably clued up and engage. Sound good? Excellent! See ya!

    366. Abulhaq says:

      When Scottish nationalists stop thinking like prudent GordonBrownesque North Brits there may be some ‘movement’.
      The SNP is a straight out the mould British clone of a party, its leaders follow the cautious British ‘style’ and temperament.
      It gives the impression of a collection of rather provincial functionaries and despite the pro EU stuff is not manifestly European in mentality, In its present guise it is by no means likely to upset or even scare the system.
      This is not surprising given Scotland’s history, 300+ years a colonial backwater impacts on self-perception, narrows the field of cultural vision, induces a comfort zone insularity.
      Scottish nationalism ought to be a generator of hope, a vehicle for new thinking, something certainly more dynamic and intellectually alive than what is currently on display.
      The need for an entity whose ‘personality’ is the flesh and blood incarnation of those qualities has, from my cosmopolitan perspective, been evident for some time.
      Death by inaction, frustration, boredom? Surely not!
      Lessons from the liberation history book tell us that when the vehicle gets stuck in ruts it may be more expedient to get a brand new vehicle, whatever the short term cost.

    367. Almond Chutney says:

      robertknight, I appreciate the advice but I’m not advocating for involvement, just throwing in my 2 cents, – ‘The UK will leave the EU on 31st Jan,’ is still fact, so stop deluding yourself otherwise.

    368. John says:

      craig murray
      Craig could you tell us ,in your Yes Minister sketch ,on your blog , what was the conversation that preceded “You see Minister ” , that to me would be the interesting part ! .

    369. Dr Jim says:

      @Almond Chutney 8:59am

      You said “What the F is your First Minister doing to Scotland”
      I take from your post that you don’t live in Scotland so let me tell you, she’s trying to do what the people of Scotland voted for as is her job, first last and always

      The question is what is your Prime Minister doing to Scotland that Scotland didn’t vote for and have never voted for, y’see that’s the point isn’t it, Scotland has now been told it doesn’t matter what we vote for or even who we vote for if England votes for something different then that is what Scotland will have imposed upon it, Scotland is a country not a colony or territory of England, we did not join a Union, Scotland and England created a Union together, albeit under nefarious circumstances in which the people of Scotland were never consulted upon until it was too late and bayonets were shoved in our faces to make us happy about it

      I’m afraid England after all these years has still been able to learn nothing for it’s follies all over the world, dictatorship ends up going badly wrong and it will again very shortly if this behaviour by the English government doesn’t stop and stop very soon

      I say English government because that’s now what it clearly is and if you study history, every time this happens the wrong kind of trouble follows like night follows day

      So before you criticise Scotland’s First Minister who is internationaly recognised and liked all over the world you might take a little look at the clown you’ve elected who’s liked by no one anywhere except Tories in England

      England is only big in England, the rest of the world is bigger and more powerful and most of those folk rather like Scotland

    370. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Robert J Sutherland

      Anent your squabble with Craig Murray and the Rev.

      You are dealing with two of the smartest cookies on here, and you are losing.

      STOP DIGGING there’s a good chap.

    371. Almond Chutney says:

      Dr Jim:

      Thank you for your polite assumptions. It’s funny how I never said the word English/England and you start to write an entire essay about the English atrocities… Good to know, but not particularly required.

      For the record I live in Wales and the ‘Prime Minister’ you think I voted for is not true, because I abstained to vote for any political circus available in my constituency.

      I maintain my opinion of the fish lady however, which I believe is my right to have, but thank you for your useless input about England, which i don’t particularly care of either way.

    372. Colin Alexander says:

      I agree with Breeks that the situation we face is more important than abuses against any individual.

      However, I can confirm false allegations and character assassination is a defence strategy employed by at least some Scottish public authorities against those who try to expose gross misconduct by public officials.

      So, as a mass movement we have to act for independence. If it’s left to a few individuals, they risk being targeted.

      I think Stu and Craig Murray are already well aware of this. (They already have been targeted).

      However, for others, I would strongly advise you:

      DO NOT put yourself into situations where it’s only your word against the public authority. eg engaging a British Imperial politician in debate. You may find yourself accused of threatening or abusive behaviour or worse.

      ALWAYS RECORD your words and actions AND the public authorities’ too when you engage with them, FOR YOUR OWN RECORD OF EVENTS ONLY: DO NOT PUBLISH THEM ONLINE.

      Keep them as your defence from false accusations.

      DO NOT act as a lone individual: ALWAYS act as a group, if you. So you have witnesses to your words and conduct.

    373. Sharny Dubs says:

      Just read in the National about the proposed “new” Indy movement.

      So this is where the SNP’s strategy has got us!

      What a waste, couldn’t manage a kindergarten.

    374. shug says:

      I see Boris is going to be coming to Scotland a lot. If we could get him on a stage with Gordon Brown saying how important North Briton is to them

      Well what can I say!!!!

    375. Ruglonian says:

      Socrates MacSporran @9.48am – thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth 😀

      RJS – sit back and think for a minute, you’re making yourself look incredibly foolish man!

    376. Abulhaq says:

      Is Scotland psychologically ready for independence?
      The devil is all in the mind.
      Slave mentality is a matter of lengthy conditioning.
      Sometimes a well targeted ‘sharp slap’ restores the balance.

    377. Dr Jim says:

      @Almond Chutney

      Englands Prime Minister runs your country too and if you read again what I wrote you will see my first sentence was “I take it from your post you don’t live in Scotland”

      You say you abstained from voting thus abdicating your responsibilities to the country I note that you say you live in of Wales yet you don’t say you are Welsh so the natural assumption could be you are not Welsh yet you have a keen interest in my country where you have no vote at all

      I’m puzzled as to your interest at all in Scotland when you seem to be disinterested in the actual country you do live

      By using the term Fish Lady when referring to the First Ministers name sunk any hope of anyone taking seriously that your interest in Scotland is benign

    378. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood at 6.58am

      Scroll to bottom of page on this link. Is this Jim Turnbull pic the one you refereed to?

    379. Capella says:

      RJS is perfectly right to be sceptical though not to be rude about it. This blog has taught us over the years to be very sceptical of any information that doesn’t cite sources. As well as applying cui bono to events that have dramatic consequences we can also use Occam’s razor – the simplest explanation is probably the right one.

      All the evidence available to me atm is that the FM is doing a great job in advancing the cause. Until I see differently, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt.

      However, because these two blogs, Craig Murray and WoS, are the most read in Scotland, there is a possibility that they have been targeted with disinformation. that is something the reader has to bear in mind.

      Innocent till proven guilty.

    380. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dan (10.25) –

      That’s not the cartoon as I remember it but is so close it might well be!

      Definitely the same artist.



    381. Abulhaq says:

      Scots exhibit many of the symptoms of this.
      In denial symptoms too, manifested in the Unionist concept of a legal union of equals, not the reality of buy out and annexation by the richer neighbour.
      Is the failure to recognize the condition a mark of a species of race superiority, we are not like them, it was not like that?
      When Scotland is forcefully cleansed of this myth bound detritus, independence will follow, until then….

    382. Breeks says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      20 January, 2020 at 8:59 am
      The United Kingdom will leave the European Union. This is a good thing, multiple dependencies on more sovereign parliaments…

      And in so doing, it will overrule the emphatic democratic will of the people of Scotland, who are recognised as Constitutionally Sovereign, thus committing an act of colonial subjugation contrary to International Law.

      It is not a good thing at all, because irrespective of the aforementioned disrespect and subjugation, it strips away many of the protections afforded to Scottish Produce by a plethora of EU Free Trade Agreements across the planet which will disappear overnight. Worse, Scottish Industry will be ‘obliged’ to suffer the consequences of US inspired deregulation and industries renowned for their exquisite standards will be forced to compete with grossly inferior standards, which have the double blow of increasing the risk of food related contamination of bacteria and disease, and making our produce unsaleable in our traditional and hard won European markets.

      Chlorinated Chicken is just the tip of the ice berg. Chicken is not point, but the US standards, which the UK will be obliged to adopt permit lower standard of hygiene and contamination of faeces, urine and animal hairs to be present in foodstuffs thus requiring them to be blanched in chemicals to make them safe to eat. European standards are head and shoulders above this. It is a crime that Scotland’s food industries which lead the world should be obliged to compete with this muck.

      Our NHS, despite the lies about it in the BritNat Media, (which is another disgraceful scandal in its own right), is treasured by our population, but it too will come under tremendous pressure from US inspired deregulation, back door privatisation and asset stripping of publicly owned and treasured resource. Scotland will have no part of that.

      Scotland too wants no part in the US/UK/Israeli warmongering, political interference, and extra judicial murder of individuals by drone strike. Scotland wants no part of the UK’s nuclear sabre rattling and provocation of anti Russian, anti Chinese, anti Muslim, and even anti European rhetoric. Europe is seen by Scotland as an open and bright place of enlightenment, not a 19th Century Colonial and Imperialist throwback such as Westminster and the BritNats seem fixated by.

      Scotland wants an end to the plundering and exploitation of our resources to pad out the wealth and prosperity of the South, only for Scotland’s wealth and contribution to be hidden and distorted behind layer upon layer of dishonest sophistry, such as oil having ‘ex-regio’ status so the exploitation can be hidden from audit, and the people of Scotland lied to with GERS and barefaced lies about “Scotland’s” deficit which doesn’t even properly exist.

      Your Brexit is a lie you don’t even see yourself Almond Chutney. You were agitated to hatred of European unelected Bureaucrats robbing the UK of Sovereignty, and blinded to the truth that Europe is democratic to a fault, and that many of Europe’s more onerous standards such as the single market, where actually instigated and promoted by the UK. When Boris Johnson held up a fish to ridicule it’s packaging, it subsequently came to light the packaging was necessitated by the UK’s own vexatious standards and had nothing whatsoever to do with Europe. And the biggest joke of all is that you were lied to about the undemocratic rule from Brussels by a UK Government led by an Etonian brat with 43% of the vote, which has an upper house of unelected lifetime peers and an unelected Queen and Royal Family. You’re BritNat arrogance is only matched by your ignorance, and your lack of self awareness is beyond parody.

      The irony is, all the phantom grievances you’ve led to believe about Europe are just that, fiction. Yet every erosion of sovereignty, every compulsion to do what you’re told, every humiliation and subjugation you find so distasteful in fiction is routinely visited upon Scotland in actuality by a foreign government we didn’t elect. Can you imagine you blood pressure if Europe has denied the UK’s right to hold a Brexit Referendum? Hypocrisy, thy name is Britain.

      Brexit is a good thing? Only for the rogues, hustlers, disaster capitalists and millionaire fraudsters who need a bolt hole to hide their dirty money. It’s a right royal shafting for everybody else, but don’t worry, you’ll be kept deaf, dumb, and blind to the truth by your ‘wonderful’ BBC, and you’ll be encouraged to kick every rough sleeper it can find who isn’t sleeping under a Union Jack, with bonus points if he’s Scottish.

      Brexit is a good thing? We’ll go ahead and enjoy it, and leave Scotland to make its own choices and govern itself properly as a modern, inclusive, forward looking European powerhouse. Ten years from now, we’ll know the truth about who is bullshitting who about Scotland’s economic performance.

    383. Capella says:

      Kangaroo says: 9:25 am
      Does anyone know when Royal Assent is expected for
      a) the SG Referendum Bill

      I don’t know whether Royal Assent has been given yet. The deadline for anyone objecting to the bill was last Thursday. In theory Royal Assent should now automatically follow. The Queen has been bit busy lately.

      b) The WM EU Withdrawal Bill.

      c) when is the EU Parliament discussing/approving the UK Brexit

      After 11pm (CET ironically) on 31st January it is no longer possible for Westminster to revoke Article 50. AFAIK Royal Assent will be given before 31st.
      After that it doesn’t really matter when the EU decides anything; they can take as long as they like. The UK will remain in the single market and customs union and under the jurisdiction of the ECJ until 31st December.

    384. Almond Chutney says:

      Dr Jim

      I don’t really see how an attack on how I identify myself is relevant. Just because I only said I lived in Wales, doesn’t mean I don’t identify as Welsh. For the record, I am Welsh and British, get over it.

      FYI, in Llandrindod Wells we didn’t even get a choice for a vote for PC because of some political pact in the general election. My vote was already taken away from me before I decided to abstain, so don’t lecture me about abstaining responsibilities.

      You are a very assumptive, judgmental person aren’t you?

    385. ScotsRenewables says:

      In a one-cock-eyed war, the side that leaks the best false intelligence is king.

    386. Almond Chutney says:

      Breeks, again you begin to judge people’s ideals without reason and instantly assume that everyone is against your opinions.

      The vote on Brexit was not a devolved vote, as much as you think it may have been. Scotland voted to stay in the UK in 2014, and that involves participating in UK’wide elections and referenda.

      Anyway, TL:DR on your anti-brexit propaganda. I never even voted to leave but I accept that it was a democratic result after all.

    387. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Scotland with a chained lion and unicorn in days gone by…

      With all that we have gone through in recent years it’s surely time to cut the chains and get busy living or get busy dying.
      Maybe Chris Cairns can draw Hamish snapped out of the prolonged stasis of scunneredness and disbelief imposed on oor lion by Westminster.

      I’m visualising an upbeat cat wearing jogging shorts warming up and stretching out its limbs and paws preparing to make a run for it…

      It’s above zero and sun’s oot so gonna try a mountainbike ride to capture some of the positive benefits exercise can have on the mind, and get a semblance of fitness back after enduring this shitey congested cold that’s loitered for a couple of weeks, don’t think the soaking in Glasgow helped…

    388. Almond Chutney says:

      Leaving the colonial-imperial British state to join the absolutely liberal land of Europe that absolutely do not have any colonial ties, until you look at Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, The Netherlands and Denmark are just GREAT examples of how to demonstrate your hatred for colonial nations within the European Union, which is just an Empire of former Empires at face value.

    389. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (10.53) –


      “New baws for Chutney please…”

      🙂 🙂 😉

    390. ScotsRenewables says:

      Chut the fuck up

    391. ScotsRenewables says:

      (Pickle features, not you Ian)

    392. callmedave says:


      Don’t hold anything back! Well said. 🙂

      Another Monday in the colony. 🙁

    393. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      I’m trying to picture Theresa May cooking up a scheme with civil servants to legally brandish David Cameron a sexual predator and possible rapist so he doesn’t mount a comeback from a referendum defeat and take her job, and it just isn’t happening. And May had nothing like the popularity within her party or nationally that NS has.

      Such a move would be more like something out of House of Cards, with Nicola Sturgeon as Frank Underwood. Have we seen anything whatsoever in her decades in the public spotlight, with a press that despises her, to suggest she’s comparable with Frank Underwood? Anything?

      So as things stand, these suggestions really don’t pass the smell test, just like the accusations against Alex. They reek more of a Unionist attempt to turn the trial into a twofer where they get to cancel not just one indy threat but two.

      And here’s the thing. If NS is actually Frank Underwood and guilty as charged here, why not STFU about it? Seriously. If any of us found video footage of her agreeing to all she’s been accused of, what would we do with it? Hand it in to the Record and sit back and watch support for Yes plummet? Play it on our blog? Or destroy the footage and let NS know where you found it?

      At this crucial moment, are people serious about independence or not? Are we committed troops in a war against a state that sees us as uppity peasants and wants to destroy us, or are we factions in some Nicola v Alex sideshow?

      Choose one:

      1. NS is actually Frank Underwood but we gain independence, OR
      2. NS publicly revealed as Frank Underwood, Yes support plummets, indy’s off the table for a decade, but we get someone nicer as party leader.

    394. @ Dan,

      you mention the chaining of our unicorn,

      does anyone know why we have a chained unicorn and when did Scotland first use the unicorn as a symbol,

      and does anyone have an original source (people seem to know but nobody seems to explain how they know) explaining why it is chained.

    395. RobertTheTruth says:

      Could not have put it better myself:

      It would be nice to see some of that evidence the SNP devotees here have that Nicola Sturgeon is actually working towards Independence apart from repeating her CV (which shows a lifelong allegiance to the SNP and the party machinery).

      Disinformation goes both ways.The SNP party faithful have been spewing it for years here regarding any substantive proposals to increase support. It is now apparently ordinary Independence supporters fault that not enough people want Independence despite consistently voting for a party that promises to deliver it.

      How many people can honestly say they supported the SNP before they wanted Independence? I’ll wager that almost every Indy supporter who left Labour or was equivocal came to the conclusion through their own questions or came because they felt betrayed by Labour.

      They were not swayed by the SNP but by a belief they could manage their own country better. The SNP portrayed themselves as the means to do that so people voted for them.

      If the SNP want people to keep faith with them and I choose that word carefully, they need to deliver a concrete proposal to achieve Independence in a set time limit. Nothing else will do.

    396. manandboy says:

      “Just caught up with the Nandy interview with Neil. That was seriously impressive.” Ian Dunt.

      Lisa Nandy MP, Labour deputy leadership candidate, advocates the same tactics against the Yes Movement as was brutally used in Catalonia.

      Expertise in one field (Brexit) is no guarantee of even basic competence in any other (Scottish Independence).

    397. admiral says:

      Unionist Media BDSM Club says:
      20 January, 2020 at 11:28 am
      I’m trying to picture Theresa May cooking up a scheme with civil servants to legally brandish David Cameron a sexual predator and possible rapist so he doesn’t mount a comeback from a referendum defeat and take her job, and it just isn’t happening.

      May was the Home Secretary who mysteriously on her watch lost hundreds of files relating to historic sex abuse. As well as her other “high crimes and misdemeanours” (hostile environment, Windrush).

    398. Breeks says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      20 January, 2020 at 11:07 am
      Breeks, again you begin to judge people’s ideals without reason and instantly assume that everyone is against your opinions.

      The vote on Brexit was not a devolved vote, as much as you think it may have been. Scotland voted to stay in the UK in 2014, and that involves participating in UK’wide elections and referenda….

      Yes, that’ll be the overruling of Constitutional Sovereignty right there… Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is Popular Sovereignty enshrined in the people, who cannot be overruled. The “UK” expects Scotland to fall in line behind the English sovereign doctrine of a sovereign parliament and Queen, and a population of “subjects”. Constitutionally, that doesn’t mean a thing in Scotland.

      You have no authority to overrule the sovereign people of Scotland, and before you say it, Scotland’s No in 2014 was a sovereign edict which elected to stay in the Union, it was NOT an abdication of Scottish Sovereignty, not even an erosion of it.

    399. Capella says:

      @ Unionist Media BDSM Club says – quite. I have no idea what possible benefit NS could gain for such a dicey maneuver. There is pure malice. But I have no evidence for that either. Quite the contrary.
      OTOH there is plenty of evidence that the British State will a) gain a great deal from it and b) has a track record in this department.

      Maybe I lack imagination. I’ll never be a novelist. Sigh.

    400. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Hi admiral

      That’s all true about May. But the point isn’t whether May is nice or not. The point is the overall plaubility of

      >Theresa May cooking up a scheme with civil servants to legally brandish David Cameron a sexual predator and possible rapist so he doesn’t mount a comeback from a referendum defeat and take her job… And May had nothing like the popularity within her party or nationally that NS has.

    401. Almond Chutney says:

      Scot Finlayson

      When you consider that the Unicorn has been a symbol since before the middle ages, traditions get weirder the older they get.

      I believe the Unicorn was considered a very powerful, dangerous creature so the symbolism use of a chain and crown was used to depict taming and ownership by sovereign, in a complete state under control – typically by the Scottish Kings.

      Just to be clear, it has nothing to do with depiction of Scotland chained to a Union, as is commonly mocked.

    402. Capella says:

      @ admiral – you can see that Theresa May had a great deal to gain from covering up historic child abuse and creating a hostile environment for immigrants in xenophobic whipped up hysteria vote Tory England.

      But what benefit is there from trashing the reputation of her predecessor and fellow Tory ex PM ? She is already PM. She has more money, fame, opportunity and freedom than almost anyone else in the country. If she doesn’t like her predecessor’s policies she can just dump them. She can resign and join the opposition. Why make life unbearably difficult for herself?

      It doesn’t add up – unless you assume she is just evil and malevolent. Evidence?

      Is there something I’ve missed?

    403. Robert Kerr says:

      Scot Finlayson asked for a source of the chaining of the Unicorn.

      This new Welsh? persona replies without any sources just opinions.

      One more on my “scroll by list”

    404. Almond Chutney says:


      I only question the values of Scottish sovereignty when your first supposed sovereign act is to declare over your newfound powers to Brussels, with levy to boot that would probably in your eyes bear no replication of Westminster control, in the slightest.

      But sure the European Union will tell you where your borders must lie (England) what currency you must use, what your government can or can’t do, who you can trade with (outside the bloc) and the best one yet, is to encumber your armed forces to fight for German and French interests.

      I understand there are points for and against, but if you can cherry pick your arguments with no consequence, then you really need to widen your perspective.

    405. kapelmeister says:

      Another of Nandy’s supporters is Graham Stringer, the
      most rabid anti-Europe Labour MP, who is also a well known climate change denier.

      These sort of Labour people will openly or tacitly side with Johnson’s planned political and cultural genocide of Scots.

    406. Breeks says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      20 January, 2020 at 11:48 am
      Scot Finlayson

      When you consider that the Unicorn has been a symbol since before the middle ages, traditions get weirder the older they get.

      I believe the Unicorn was considered a very powerful, dangerous creature so the symbolism use of a chain and crown was used to depict taming and ownership by sovereign, in a complete state under control – typically by the Scottish Kings.

      Just to be clear, it has nothing to do with depiction of Scotland chained to a Union, as is commonly mocked….

      Sorry Almond Chutney, I hope you’ve got a wheel barrow to carry all this…

      The Heraldic significance of the chains is that the end is free or broken to symbolise that the Unicorn cannot be chained. It is debated, (it’s symbolism open to interpretation), but the metaphor is apt for Scotland, because of Scotland’s Popular Sovereignty. You might kill Scotland’s King, defeat Scotland in Battle, occupy Scottish lands, but Sovereignty over Scotland will forever elude the invader, because it requires the destruction of every last living sovereign Scot.

      Like the Unicorn, Scotland might be taken, but it can never be held without ceasing to exist.

    407. Breeks says:

      Sorry,… that the Unicorn is there in Heraldic symbolism is meant to signify the Unicorn is there by it’s own free choice… that too is apt for Scotland’s place in the Union of Equals.

    408. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:


      Exactly, man. And there’s a wider point here about the dangers of online personal branding/distinctiveness, plus left-centre factionalism, plus Scottish clannishness, plus the national genius for turning victory into defeat, all up against a state with a historic genius for divide and rule.

      There’s a real danger that just as we move consistently ahead in the polls we blow it by failing to hold the line.

    409. Abulhaq says:

      I sense my comments are ignored by most on this site. He’s foreign what does he know, probably.
      Two of my forebears, Coptic Catholics aged 18 and 21, were murdered by drunken Australian colonial troops during Egypt’s process of liberation, so I do know something, albeit not first hand, about the existential cost of the struggle for national freedom.
      Has Scottish nationalism morphed into a fair weather thing? No pain etc.
      The words of Scotland’s unofficial anthem Scots wha hae, suggest something totally different.

    410. KillerTNT says:

      I voted for independence but not to remain in the EU either. Why does one indy supporter get the right to decide our sovereignty to Europe is more important than Scotland being on her own and making her own decisions without external control? Why can’t we just be free of all unions and put Scotland in charge of Scotland

    411. robertknight says:


      We’re all “foreign” here. What makes you a Scot is what you feel, not where you or your forebears are from and definitely not what your passport says. Mine says “British”. ROFL!

    412. Breeks says:

      Again Almond Chutney, you list things as though they are chains of slavery, but they are merely the conditions you sign up by choice to when you join the club, again by choice.

      If you join the join the golf club, the bar has rules that you don’t wear spikes in the club house. The UK would join the club, but then demand to wear it’s spikes wherever it liked, then scream blue murder and screech about the theft of sovereignty if it was asked to remove them.

    413. CameronB Brodie says:

      Three centuries of cultural subjugation will certainly undermine the moral psychology of a nation. So much so, that Scotland’s population is uncertain as to whether to defend their human rights from totalitarian authoritarianism. Contemporary British nationalism is not compatible with social democracy, or constitutional law, so why are we still hanging about?

      Contemporary British nationalism is an expansionist form of English nationalism seeks to obliterate the Scottish national identity.

      Psychological Citizenship and National Identity

      In this paper, I raise the question of whether psychological citizenship (i.e. the subjective sense of being a citizen) is necessarily intertwined with a sense of national identity in our contemporary world.

      First, I argue that psychological citizenship is always dependent upon a sense of shared identity with the community (be it national or other), and I explore some of the reasons why this is the case. Second, I argue that such sense of shared identity can nevertheless sometimes remain implicit so that in order to assess its impact one may need to look beyond people’s explicit statements of identification.

      Third, I turn to the more specific question of national identity and argue that such identity presents particular characteristics that make it consonant with the notion of citizenship (and thus able to sustain a subjective sense of citizenship) in ways that other identities might not always be.

      Finally, I compare a psychological citizenship based on national identity to one which would be based on a ‘global’ or ‘cosmopolitan’ identity. I argue that, whilst the former constitutes a pervasive social psychological reality, doubts can be raised as to whether this is the case for the latter, and thus as to whether it can form a credible alternative to national identity as the psychological substrate of citizenship. I conclude with some reflections concerning what different approaches of social psychology can bring to the study of the psychological aspects of citizenship. Copyright # 2011
      John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

    414. RobertTheTruth says:

      EU New Scots left in limbo. The SNP will not be able to count on EU nationals for votes as they will all have left. More discontent at lack of action:

    415. CameronB Brodie says:

      Westminster is still stuck in the 19th century, and the political culture it exhibits can be described as racist paternalism (see Brexit).

      The cognitive structuring of nationalidentity:
      individual differences inidentifying as American

    416. North chiel says:

      On jan 31st the 2014 referendum result should be declared “Null & Void”.
      A central plank of the “ Better together “NO mandate was that a NO vote would ensure that Scotland would remain in the EU ( let’s assume for at least a “ generation “? ) . We were “ informed” that a YES vote would remove Scotland from the EU and further that rejoining would be “ difficult “ and could be a “lengthy process “. Etc. Etc.
      How many voters within the 62 percent of “remain “ voters in 2016 consequently actually voted “ NO” in September 2014 to ensure our EU membership ? ( probably enough to secure the “ No” vote would be a fair assumption would it not?).
      Consequently a second Independence referendum is both necessary and legitimate after 31-1-20 .

    417. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Almond Cherry @11:59

      you’re funny…..made me laugh anyway

    418. Breeks says:

      RobertTheTruth says:
      20 January, 2020 at 11:33 am
      Could not have put it better myself:


      “Joanna Cherry QC
      · 4h
      As we look forward to the FM’s statement on next steps to #indyref2, I agree with ?@KevinJPringle? that its time to establish a new #YesScotland to co-ordinate the campaign & develop the vision, policy & strategy required to win….”

      Although I partially agree with Joanna… If YES was to reconstitute itself along firm and animated Constitutional lines, and actually demand our own Government seeks sovereign recognition of Scotland and the Claim of Right which Westminster has recognised, then yes, but bloody hurry up!

      But sadly, I don’t think that’s what Joanna Cherry is meaning at all…. It’s a pity, and a disappointment, because I’ve always believed Joanna’s legal and Constitutional expertise might be pivotal, but not if she’s nailing her colours to a maybe Referendum sometime never. We need some seismic activity to happen within 11 days, and the prospects are bleak.

    419. Effijy says:

      Very interested to read about a $2 Billion bank balance belonging to the daughter of the former
      Leader of Angola.

      God know what the other accounts are worth that she hides through friends
      And what did Daddy take out of the country’s Oil riches?

      Nice to know the daughter of a corrupt dictator has made more money from oil than
      Scotland as England says we are overloaded with a share of their debt.

      Boris I’m sure can follow in the footsteps of her Daddy.
      Has he booked any flights to Africa?

    420. CameronB Brodie says:

      National identity is important as an anchor for personal psychology. Contemporary British nationalism does not make allowances for this, so can’t be considered supportive of Scotland’s public health.

      Remember, Scottish nationalism is supportive of multiculturalism. English/British nationalism, not so much.

      Chapter fourteen. Is national identity essential for the identity of persons?

    421. robertknight says:

      Scot Finlayson…

      Re.Unicorns. Google is your friend.

      However, such mythical, powerful and magical creatures which were dangerous and could only be tamed by virgins could, it was said, also be hunted, captured, kept or even killed by the most powerful.

      In the heraldic form adopted by early monarchs of Scotland, the beast was collared with an open crown or coronet, to which was fixed a chain whose other end was fixed to the ground.

      In some versions of the full achievement of the Royal Coat of Arms, there is no “ground” shown, so the chain simply ends in mid-air so to speak. Either way, the point is made that Kings of Scots were seen by their illiterate subjects as being powerful enough to capture and keep a fearsome beast of legend. And if that wasn’t enough, there was a red lion included in the arms – another dangerous beast which few had seen in the flesh – to make the point.

      The chain has absolutely nothing to do with the constitutional arrangement since 1603 or indeed 1707, it’s use predating both by centuries, and everything to do with heraldry, symbology and displaying your dominance to an illiterate populace and/or to a possible foe.

    422. dakk says:

      I’ve heard all the rumours about rifts between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon for years.

      I’ve also heard rumours of the wife who Craig Murray alludes to in his Yes Minister piece.

      None of it is new to me.

      As for 100% certainty of veracity of information.

      No one but accusers, accused and any witnesses will ever know the truth or their interpretation of it.

      Craig Murray, Stuart Campbell, and every other man and his dug will only know what somebody tells them.

      The Procurator Fiscal is the one to decide if a case is brought. Not Nicola Sturgeon.

      None of this has any bearing on whether the Scottish gov are planning to have a referendum in late 2020 or 2021 or not.

    423. Breeks says:

      Not going down well with the YES troops very well….

      Please, please, please, have a rethink Joanna…. We have 11 days to secure a Constitutional Carabiner to the rockface of Europe…

    424. Almond Chutney says:


      Thanks, I’m a keen entertainer so I appreciate that. Keep an eye out for RPDR UK season 2, I submitted my application with great interest, would love to see a Scottish contestant next year too, was lacking in the season just gone.

    425. Republicofscotland says:

      So Ian Murray MP agrees with Lisa Nandy on how to deal with us referring to Catalonia, in which the voters were beaten shot and tear gassed, and the leaders were imprisoned or had to flee into exile.

      Meanwhile the unions messiah Gordon Brown will be wheeled out as usual, to hold a series of unionist get togethers around Scotland starting this week, to boldly proclaim that the union is far better than making our own decisions, and that nasty nationalism (unless its British) is not the way forward.

      Staying on Labour, has been, Corbyn is to nominate John Bercow and two others for peerages in the House of Lords, you know the same HoL, that Labour have said they’ll abolish if in power, they’ve been saying that for a hundred years.

      As for the House of Lords Johnson wants them to go touring around the country (England) beginning up North (again Northern England) not that I want them to come to Scotland heaven forbid.

      Finally SNP MP Hannah Bardell, has had what police are calling a serious and credible threat aimed at her, on the back of the disgraceful Lord Maginnis comments concering her.

      Maginnis was formerly a Ulster unionist MP, so it doesn’t take too much of an imagination imagination to have an idea where the threat lies.

    426. Stuart MacKay says:

      CameronB Brodie @12:59pm

      I agree. British nationalism can only cause identity problems for those who live north of the border. For those in the south, well, the days of Alf Garnett are back with a vengeance:

      Although this was a BBC1 comedy this is now most definitely NSFW.

    427. CameronB Brodie says:

      Someone living in Scotland needs to be a bit soft in the head to support contemporary British nationalism, which displays a cultural psychology similar to racist and nationalistic forms of political Zionism. With us Scots as the Palestinians.

      Political Psychology
      Situations, Individuals, and Cases

      Chapter 14
      The Psychology of Racism and Political Intolerance

      As Federico and Luks note, “race continues to play an important role in conditioning not only individuals’ life outcomes, but also their social and political attitudes.”1 This is true in the United States, in Europe and in much of the rest of the world. Not surprisingly, political psychologists have long been interested in the roots of racial prejudice.

      What is it that makes apparently reasonable, normal, psychologically healthy individuals discriminate – either overtly or covertly – against someone else or an entire group, based on nothing more than the fact that this person or group happens to possess a skin color different from their own? This is one of the great puzzles of social and political psychology – not to say social science as a whole – and it is unsurprising that many have sought to address the causes of this widespread phenomenon.

      As Susan Fiske notes, a great deal of the research that has been done on racism, prejudice, and discrimination has come out of the United States. “Centuries of dramatically heterogeneous immigration into one nation may have brought ethnic issues to the surface sooner in the USA than elsewhere,” Fiske suggests. She notes, though, that many of the theories that have been used to account for racism are just as applicable to prejudice in European politics as they are to the American case.2

      In fact, most of the theories we shall look at in this chapter can be applied to any region of the world where significant racial and ethnic differences exist within a particular state….

    428. gus1940 says:

      How about Lord Bercow for next BBC DG?

    429. Kenny J says:

      Hi All,
      Further to Craig Murray’s piece, and I hope that his allegory, as he does, is completely unfounded, here is a comment from CNN on another leader. This is in connection with Trump’s impeachment.

      “If you have any doubt that impeachment tarnishes a president’s legacy, let me ask what you think of when you hear the name Bill Clinton. Is it that under Clinton our nation saw the greatest job growth of any modern-day president with more than 22 million jobs created? (Under Trump, to date, only about 7 million jobs have been created.) Or that under Clinton, the stock market saw stunning growth, with the S&P climbing a whopping 210% in his eight years in office (compared to 38% in Trump’s first three years)?
      Or is it any of the other notable achievements of Clinton, such as appointing the first female attorney general or increasing the percentage of American schools connected to the internet from 35% in 1994 to 95% in 1999?

      Probably not. The first thought for most when you say “Bill Clinton” is of him being impeached in connection with his affair with Monica Lewinsky. And more permanently, this fact is now memorialized in the official US government archives, school textbooks, history books, in every media discussion about Trump’s impeachment, etc.”

      How to destroy a hero’s reputation.

    430. Kenny J says:

      Should have added that Clinton’s impeachment was for the henious act of lying about, or for the older among us, of being economical with the truth, about an affair with a young, consenting, young woman.

    431. robertknight says:


      Lord Maginnis – Former Unhinged Ulster Puritan, now just unhinged.

      I’m 99% sure it was he who Maggie Ewing said would mutter “Jezebel” whenever she passed him in the Palace of Westminster, but I could be 1% mistaken – we’re talking nearly 30 years ago. A pity smartphones weren’t around then as he/they would have been similarly caught out as now.

      An all round nice guy it would appear, with a similarly rated fanbase.

    432. CameronB Brodie says:

      Stuart MacKay
      This situation hasn’t come about by accident. British nationalism has taken on an increasingly aggressive and racist persona, since Thatcher started the butchery of democracy in Britain.

      Ruling tactics: Methods of promoting everyday
      nationalism, how they serve rulers and how to
      oppose them

      Ruling tactics: Methods of promoting everyday nationalism, how they serve rulers and how to oppose them

      Most people think of the world as divided into countries, and many people identify with their “own” country. Because there’s nothing natural in this, governments and others need to continually encourage identification with the nation. This serves those with power and wealth. Ruling Tactics outlines the methods commonly used to foster everyday nationalism and how they can be countered. These methods are described in a range of areas, including crime, sport, language, economics, terrorism and war. This book can serve as a practical manual for recognising how thinking is oriented towards the state, and how this sort of thinking can be changed.

    433. Dan says:

      I’m ten miles out cycling through woods and along river banks.
      T’was good to see two large red squirrels jumping about together in the tree canopies.
      I’m now sitting watching a waterfall waiting for a salmon to make its leap.

      The salmon’s situation is not unlike Scotland’s. It’s made a long journey and is now sitting in turbulent water with relentless cascades of water pouring down from above, its future requires a decision.
      It will go no further if a leap of faith in its ability to make the next step and progress into the future isn’t made.

      It’s still chilly even in the low sun’s rays, but the sun is out and the sky is blue, but will we see a good Scottish Spring this year.

    434. Capella says:

      Leslie Evans has had her contract extended for another year. AFAIK it is Westminster who makes this decision:

      decision on @PermSecScot is made in conjunction with chief civil servant mark Sedwill- a career diplomat,former un weapons inspector in Iraq & private Sec to foreign sec in lead upto illegal invasion of Iraq, after which was made an ambassador then national security advisor.

    435. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT There is a gut wrenching RSPCA advert running just now.

      Please remember that we have the SSPCA and no harm to the abominably treated animals in England but they do have 55 million folk to donate , the SSPCA only has us.

    436. terence callachan says:

      To almond chutney….

      You should be clear about who you are

      Initially you said you live in Wales
      But then proceeded to say that we in Scotland will benefit from brexit

      After further discussion with folk on this site you then said you identify as welsh

      But hang on a minute
      You are English aren’t you
      Fair enough you live in wales but you are English aren’t you
      Born in England , English parents

    437. CameronB Brodie says:

      A bit dated but I think this might proved insight into the constitutional and democratic crises that faces Scotland. Contemporary Scottish nationalism has managed to achieve an inclusive openness that is the polar opposite of contemporary English/British nationalism. Mismanagement of this crisis can be expected to heighten the potential for violent conflict.

      Comparing the Basque and Catalan Cases

      Through a comparison between Catalan and Basque nationalism, this thesis describes two patterns of nationalism: inclusive and exclusive, cohesive and fragmented. These are related to the core values of national identity chosen by nationalist elites. However, this choice cannot be arbitrary, but is based on pre-existing cultural material.

      As language is the key value of most European nationalisms, the degree of language maintenance has a direct influence on the patterns of nationalist mobilization. These two patterns are tested against the different attitudes towards immigrants: early Basque nationalism was isolationist and exclusive, early Catalan nationalism was more integrationist and inclusive. However, during Francoism, Basque nationalism changed its focus from race/religion to language and action, although nationalists never agreed on which one of these was crucial. The result was a more inclusive form of nationalism.

      Finally, the thesis relates the two models to the rise and spread of political violence. It is argued that ideological infighting and fragmented constituencies are potentially more conducive to violent forms of nationalism. In turn, such ideological frictions are related to cultural discontinuities, including partial assimilation into the dominant culture. However, for this violent potential to fully emerge, there must intervene a second variable,
      namely state repression.

      It is argued that the effects of state repression have been different in the two cases: in Catalonia, it encouraged people to mobilize around language and related cultural endeavours; in the Basque Country it provided a powerful catalyst for further violent confrontation and for the ‘militarization1 of nationalism.

    438. terence callachan says:

      Almond chutney….

      You said

      “” But sure the European Union will tell you where your borders must lie (England) what currency you must use, what your government can or can’t do, who you can trade with (outside the bloc) and the best one yet, is to encumber your armed forces to fight for German and French interests.“

      What a load of crap

      Our borders are easy to determine
      Maps used all over the world show where they are

      Our currency is our choice
      We will use whatever currency is best for us
      We will have a government that does what OUR government decides it should do we will not have to do what England’s government tells us we should do
      We certainly will not have armed forces that attack overseas countries the way England does

    439. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond chutney
      Stop trying to peddle your racist, Euroskeptic, English nationalist shite here please. Thank you in advance.

      Gifford, Chris (2015) Nationalism, populism and Anglo-British Euroscepticism, British Politics, 10 (3), pp. 362-366.

    440. Almond Chutney says:

      Terence Callachan, it’s not a load of crap at all. It is the requirements of joining the European Union. For example:

      From the EU site –

      – A country wishing to join the EU submits a membership application to the Council, which asks the Commission to assess the applicant’s ability to meet the Copenhagen criteria. If the Commission’s opinion is positive, the Council must then agree upon a negotiating mandate. Negotiations are then formally opened on a subject-by-subject basis.

      – Any country that satisfies the conditions for membership can apply. These conditions are known as the ‘Copenhagen criteria’ and include a free-market economy, a stable democracy and the rule of law, and the acceptance of all EU legislation, including of the euro.

      So just on terms of currency, for instance, Scotland would need to join the Euro as it will not have its own currency following an #indyyes that would be strong enough to meet the requirements of being an EU member, also without the guarantees of bail from the UK if Scotland overspends, something which is common.

      The EU will also regulate a hard border between England and Scotland, a delightful prospect to many north of that border, but also at a loss of 64% of UK trade, doesn’t seem worth it on those basis.

      I’m sure some smart ass will pick this apart and provide you with the full details, but this information is straight from the Europe home page.

    441. Almond Chutney says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      20 January, 2020 at 2:22 pm
      Almond chutney
      Stop trying to peddle your racist, Euroskeptic, English nationalist shite here please. Thank you in advance.

      1. I’m not English, where did you get that idea?

      2. I’m not racist, where did you get that idea?

      3. It’s spelt ‘Eurosceptic’.

    442. CameronB Brodie says:

      Is Scotland’s electorate really going to allow English nationalism degrade their legal and political rights? It certainly looks as if the Scottish government is intellectually incapable of stepping out from under Westminster’s legal authority. Which the Prime minister has morally forfeited, IMHO.

      English Nationalism and Brexit

    443. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      1. I didn’t indicate you were any particular nationality, I asked you to stop promoting English nationalism.

      2. Euroscepticism is strongly associated with Social Dominance Orientation, Right-wing Authoritarianism, English nationalism, and racism. That the contemporary English political psyche, that is.

      3. Think you’re a smart arse?

    444. robertknight says:

      I can think of worse things than using the Euro. A red passport for example. Driver’s license adorned with a butcher’s apron. Having not only a Tory but BawJaws himself as PM. Having to get a Visa to take the family on a holiday to Spain. Chlorine washed chicken, GM veg and antibiotic/growth hormone enhanced beef in the shops. Need I go on? Yep, the Euro looks pretty decent compared to that lot.

    445. Dan says:

      On my way home for a haggis dinner, but have just spotted a grey squirrel and they like nuts.
      And o’er much chutney doesnae half taint a sarnie it has to be said.

    446. Colin Alexander says:


      I welcome yours and other people’s comments. It’s good to hear different opinions.

      It disnae matter to me where you came from, I regard you as a fellow supporter in the struggle for Scotland’s freedom.

      That’s what matters to me.

    447. Almond Chutney says:

      Well I can honestly say I had fun today and I thank you all for your engagement.

      What I learnt –

      Well from the first glance you can see that this is an entirely Anglophobic thread. Just throwing in my opinion on, well an opinion thread regarding my opposing view of an independence referendum being conducted whilst in the midst of Brexit.

      A lot of you are so blind-hate ignorant to anything else that you believe, that I truly feel sorry for you. (For the record, I never opposed an indy Scotland, I opposed the SNPs desperate attempts to latch onto Brussels control post Westminster unshackling.)

      I have supported a Welsh referendum on independence since 2014, because Scotland got a say, so we should all get the same question ‘Do we support the Union’? With the answer being yes and no, but ultimately I believe Wales should become an independent nation. This doesn’t mean I instantly call all English people slavers, fascists, racists, colonialists etc..

      It just takes away the credibility of your arguments, you know?

    448. cirsium says:

      @contrary, 8.35am

      I was promised a referendum this year, and so expect one,


    449. Gary45% says:

      Almond Chutney or is it Welsh Joe?
      Try drinking the Penderyn rather than snorting it, you might just make more sense? or probably not!!
      Only Scots who reside in Scotland can say its shite without causing offence.
      Wales ??? take a look out your window, is it the bed of English Roses you seek? I very much doubt it.

    450. Almond Chutney says:

      Gary45%, no you fascist idiot.

    451. K1 says:

      Oh fuck not another sensibledave, with foregone conclusions at the ready and prejudice aplenty to start his little fantasy wurdz war btl on Wings, baiting and prodding to get his little internal victory rush, whilst feigning neutrality….its soooo fucking old.

      Send us better and more informed master baiters puhlease!

    452. Robert Louis says:

      Pop quiz;

      which currency do these EU MEMBER COUNTRIES use?

      1. Denmark, is it the Euro OR Danish Krone?

      2. Sweden, is it the Euro OR the Swedish Krona

      3. Czech republic, is it the Euro or the Czech Koruna?

      4. United Kingdom, is it the Euro, or the Pound Sterling?

      5. Poland, is it the Euro, or the Polish Zloty?

      6. Croatia, is it the Euro, or the Croatian Kuna?

      I could go on, to include countries like Bulgaria or Romania, Hungary, and so on….

      Anybody telling you Scotland MUST use the Euro to join the EU, is talking the biggest pile of idiotic and pig-ignorant p*sh. They quite literally know NOTHING about how the EU works.

      Anything such folk say regarding Scotland is usually nonsense.

    453. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      If you understood the world from an ethically rational, post-colonial perspective, you would appreciate that such an outrageous misrepresentation as your last comment, is a classical technique of the colonialist. You can’t expect ethically robust cultural critique from the man/woman in the street. De-colonising is a technically challenging practice.

      Can I ask you if you support the rule-of-law and the principle of universal human rights?

    454. Breeks says:

      Bit bleak bouncing around SNP Twitter land. Not much two-way dialogue happening, and SNP peeps just aren’t listening. You’d never imagine we’re being stripped of EU Citizenship next week.

      It’s well known I’m not the SNP’s biggest fan, but I’m telling ya’ SNP, your Nation is expecting some kind of belated, last minute intervention which makes Brexit actually mean something. For the life of me, In the time that’s left, I cannot see that being anything OTHER than some kind of Constitutional interdict or holding action.

      If this big announcement is yet more wait and see prevarication, it’s going to go down like a lead balloon. The moral of your troops is low and angry, and talk about a “new” YES army is ‘insensitive’ shall we say.

      Come on Joanna Cherry, you’ve gotta get that big book on Constitutional Law off the shelf and find some kind of reprieve for Scotland’s subjugation. If laypeople and pub discussions can formulate a Constitutional route out of this mess, then so can a Pro-Independence QC. We have 11 days.

    455. Gary45% says:

      Almond Chutney@2.48
      Congratulations on getting the “What’s the point of Wullie Rennie” award for well… being pointless.
      Try again tomorrow son.

    456. Gary45% says:

      Fascist Idiot, woooo, is that it?
      Away back to the Daily Mail site, your obviously lost.

    457. Almond Chutney says:

      K1 says:
      20 January, 2020 at 2:57 pm
      Oh fuck not another sensibledave, with foregone conclusions at the ready and prejudice aplentstart his little fantasy wurdz war btl on Wings, baiting and prodding to get his little internal victory rush, whilst feigning neutrality….its soooo fucking old.

      Perhaps you’re right, maybe totalitarian ideals and a disregard of proper grammar is what I need.

    458. Kenny J says:

      I was just thinking how we get these dumbos popping up every so often, over the years.
      Christ, we have had a stream of them, all telling us what we shold, or should not, be doing.
      This clown will disapear soon enough, when his ego, or handlers, tell him to quit.

    459. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      Joanna Cherry is a good shout because she has real national profile now and we know where she stands on the GRA palaver.

      My own preference would be to see Angus MacNeil being given a much more prominent role. Something about him puts me in mind of a younger Eck. He popped in to Dows and said hello to us at the last get-the-gither after Ronnie A spotted him emerging from the train station. There’s not many politicos would dare be seen anywhere near a Friends of Wings gig.

      (Mind you, I have no idea if he’s ‘woke’ or not.)

    460. ahundredthidiot says:

      Almond Chutney certainly indicates that he/she is very clever…..(which is the polar opposite of what the British Army told me about the ‘Welch’)……Let’s see if he/she is clever enough to hang around and maybe learn a thing or two.

      I would urge everyone to be nice to our new little BritNat toy….

      …or not.

    461. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      Your Euroscepticism and opposition towards fascism are not logically compatible, as it is far-right English nationalism that has resulted in Brexit and the democratic and constitutional crises that faces Scotland in Britain.

      Cat got your tongue about whether you support the rule-of-law and the principle of human rights?

    462. admiral says:

      Unionist Media BDSM Club says:
      20 January, 2020 at 11:42 am
      Hi admiral
      That’s all true about May. But the point isn’t whether May is nice or not. The point is the overall plaubility of
      >Theresa May cooking up a scheme with civil servants to legally brandish David Cameron a sexual predator and possible rapist so he doesn’t mount a comeback from a referendum defeat and take her job… And May had nothing like the popularity within her party or nationally that NS has.

      Mays record in office is way beyond just not being very nice to some people.

      She deliberately instigated and ran a racist, xenophobic policy against immigrants and their descendants, using the power of the state to illegally remove them from the country or, in some cases, consciously denying seriously ill people access to life-saving healthcare.

      Her stewardship of the child abuse enquiry, when she appointed a relative of someone accused in that enquiry to lead it, was also seriously lacking and deliberately contrived to stymie the enquiry as far as possible. The loss of hundreds if not thousands of records, both of immigrants from the old colonies seeking to confirm their rightful status as UK citizens and the child sex abuse files doesn’t point to a minor administrative blip or mere clerical error in an otherwise fair, legal and just procedure but to a cold-blooded execution of policies known by their instigators to be illegal.

    463. manandboy says:

      I am of the view that the Independence Movement will not hang around much after January 31st, waiting for the political wing of the Movement to act decisively, ie the SNP Government.

      As a sovereign people, we don’t have to wait for anyone.

      Let Independence activism flood Scotland, with or without the SNP leadership.

    464. Kenny J says:

      “Abulhaq says:
      20 January, 2020 at 10:51 am

      Scots exhibit many of the symptoms of this.
      In denial symptoms too, manifested in the Unionist concept of a legal union of equals, not the reality of buy out and annexation by the richer neighbour.
      Is the failure to recognize the condition a mark of a species of race superiority, we are not like them, it was not like that?
      When Scotland is forcefully cleansed of this myth bound detritus, independence will follow, until then….”

      Hi Albuhaq,
      Strangely, I was thinking along the same lines a few days ago.I use other forums, as we all do, in my case some engineering, gardening, and when you see a post from Scotland, addressed to, or answering a (mostly) English audience, very often you will get : Hi, on the one day of sunshine, blah, blah or Hi from wet and windy Scotland, or some such.
      It stuck me as not deprecation, which you might think, but subservience, our weather (and country) is poor and less good, but (unspoken) yours is better.
      Or am I just fu*** mad. Other views.?

    465. Derek Rogers says:

      Almond Chutney at 2:23 pm

      – Any country that satisfies the conditions for membership can apply. These conditions are known as the ‘Copenhagen criteria’ and include a free-market economy, a stable democracy and the rule of law, and the acceptance of all EU legislation, including of the euro.

      Nonsense. Get your facts right. The Copenhagen Criteria are here:

      and don’t include adopting the euro. See also:

    466. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

      Scottish future share of Trident: ~ £16 billion.

      Scottish future share of HS2 London to English midlands: £8 billion.

      Brexit cost to Scotland already: ~£10 billion.

      Projected future Brexit cost to Scotland under Johnson’s deal: 6.7%, a conservative estimate for Scotland due to Brexit’s impact on our north-east in particular.

      Or over 8% under No Deal, on par with the worst European crashes during the credit crunch. In 2033 alone Scotland would be losing over £12 billion a year due to Brexit.

      UK govt 2019-20 revenue from North Sea oil and gas: £1.1 billion.

      So can somebody tell me why offering London all the oil and gas revenue in exchange for independence shouldn’t at least be part of the conversation?

    467. Years ago my late mother was asked in the town centre by Donald Dewar what she thought of politicians she replied you are like bananas when you go to Westminster at first you are green but then after you are there a while you turn yellow he was not very pleased I’m afraid but I think she was correct

    468. Golfnut says:

      @ Kenny J.

      Hi, I come across similar remarks regularly on line, on holiday,etc as no doubt we all do.
      Nobody comes to Scotland for the weather, they come for the scenery, history, good food, friendly people, adventure. As a keen camper, I come across all types and those are the reasons people give for coming and coming back. The weather is one of those put downs for us Jocks, but the reality is Scotland feeds itself, our temperate climate grows six times more wheat than it takes to feed us, we have a surplus in just about everything. That’s how I normally reply to anyone bringing up Scotland’s weather.

    469. K1 says:

      Oh…what made you think I was referring to you?

      Arrogant wank.

    470. K1 says:

      ‘Well I can honestly say I had fun today and I thank you all for your engagement.’

      Lying disingenuous sarcastic pish.

      Along with pretty much everything else you’ve contributed btl toady.

      Now I am referring to you.

    471. Dan says:

      Peter Bell’s latest blog.

      Scotland’s Predicament – A Dose of Reality.

      Hmm, “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house comes to mind…

    472. Grey Gull says:

      Blair @3.36
      Your mum wasn’t wrong.

    473. Mist001 says:

      Here’s a question that I’ve never seen asked, therefore I don’t know the answer. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me.

      Nicola Sturgeon is married to Peter Murrell.

      So that being the case, why is Nicola Sturgeon called Nicola Sturgeon?

      Why is she not called, or doesn’t call herself Nicola Murrell?

      Or Mrs. Murrell?

      Is there a reason for this?

    474. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why do you think that matters?

    475. mike cassidy says:

      Worth a read from 6 years ago.

      Darling’s HS2 blunder to cost Aberdeen and Dundee £316m a year

      I wonder if Scotland’s ‘share’ was removed from the GERS figures.

    476. Breeks says:

      Dan says:
      20 January, 2020 at 4:51 pm
      Peter Bell’s latest blog.

      Scotland’s Predicament – A Dose of Reality.

      Hmm, “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house comes to mind…

      I think we need a a delegation of determined YES Constitutionalists sitting down with Joanna Cherry, and telling her, not asking, that we propose to lodge a formal Constitutional challenge to the faux UK Parliamentary Sovereignty forcing Brexit upon us, contrary to our emphatic democratic mandate to remain, and constituting an unlawful act of colonial subjugation.

      We do not need any majority (although we have one for Brexit), to enact a sovereign defence of Scotland’s interests when thus threatened with colonial aggression, and we will never know what support and likely recognition awaits Scotland without seeking to find out.

      We hear the constant refrain that our Referendum must be legal blah, blah, blah, which is fine, but why must Scotland be so pedantic about squeaky clean legal probity while Westminster gets to act like a spoiled brat hoodlum to whom laws and conventions don’t apply? Let their claim to be sovereign over Scotland be the Claim in the Dock and scrutinised under the microscope, not Scotland’s.

      The dispute of UK Sovereignty might stand no chance of being resolved before next week, but in application, perhaps we can create a point in time or state of affairs which forms a datum whereby we can rewind the clock and undo to some extent damage and injury suffered upon us by our ‘temporary’ Brexit.. a bit like you see American lawyers do… they shout “section” and create a point in proceedings which can be revisited later.

      Perhaps even disputed sovereignty will allow Scotland to set up probationary and transitional arrangements something like the holding pen status which was talked about way back in 2016, and permit Scotland to discuss its own Trade and Membership arrangements with the EU independent of Brexit.

      These later issues are back in the realm of politics and governments, and might come unstuck given that constitutional matters are reserved and discussions are unlawful, but don’t forget, with sovereignty disputed, it is up to us to make sure we have the acknowledged and recognised sovereignty, and that Westminster does not.

      I would hope an informed Constitutional motion lodged by private individuals might get the dispute of sovereignty rolling, but we will very quickly need a Constitutional Government to represent us thereafter… Like it or not, that’s the SNP.

    477. Mist001 says:

      @ CameronB Brodie

      Why shouldn’t it matter? It’s of interest to me so I’m trying to find out. You obviously don’t know the answer, so it’s of no matter to you.

      Somebody might know the answer though.

    478. HandandShrimp says:


      Lots of women use their maiden name professionally. Are you contacting us from 1820?

      Surprised you think it is even a question in 2020.

    479. Willie says:


      I think you are right that many of the Independence movement will not hang about to long after the 31st January on the SNP.

      Under Alex Salmond the SNP were successful, too successful in that they got close to winning independence. And therein lies the problem today. The establishment knows that a return of a Salmond, and undoubtedly popular SNP could next time pull off what we want. And so to stop that by hook and by crook, the SNP is emasculated from within.

      The lesson of Irish history and Charles Stewart Parnell is a parallel of how the press tried to destroy the man. Granted he did have an affair, but doing something is not a prerequisite for a smear by any manner of means. Assange or Salmond, it matters not what they haven’t done, and the SNP misplaying its Independence role. No accident.

      But another movement is possible. The SNP can change from within and depose its present heirarchy. An other party or movement can emerge – and the commitment that folks are showing to AUOB marches shows that the independence movement is bigger than an Indy recalcitrant SNP.

      In Charles Stewart Parnell’s case the smear was successful. His party however was was subsequently eclipsed by Sinn Fein and ultimately Irish Independence had to be taken by physically resisting the regime that kept the country colonised, An unhappy process altogether but a process that just about every country in the world colonised by Britain has had to go through to become independent.

      Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya, India, Aden or even America – they all physically and administratively rebelled.

      For whatever reason, NS and her coterie may be squandering the opportunity but NS is not the queen and even if she was, Queens like Kings can be replaced.

      Craig’s allegory of Yes Minister explains so much and thankfully it helps folk understand what is going on around them in the subterfuge of the establishment. And yes Mandaboy, the movement will not wait. We move on!

    480. scotspatriot says:

      Mist 00100
      I couldn’t care less if Sturgeon called herself Charlie Carroli . She’s by far the best politician on these Islands , and respected further afield.

    481. Reluctant Nationalist says:


      I think you should be asking why her husband doesn’t go by the name Peter Sturgeon.

    482. boris says:

      Of the 55 MPs who spoke in the 2nd reading debate of the Agriculture Bill, an astonishing 25% of them were either gentlemen farmers, owned farmland, or owned part of a farming business.

    483. twathater says:

      K1 i’m with you , I have long lost the patience to deal with these time wasting twats who view Scotland and Scots as colonial possessions and should be ever so grateful that they include us in their so wondrous yookay, they haven’t the intelligence to even realise that when we leave there is no such thing , they will revert to their own weeeee countries

    484. Thanks for reply anent chained unicorns,

      though no original source,

      this is one opinion i found,

      `the unicorn denotes Jesus Christ

      Christ will be called the son of unicorns, for the unicorn is irresistible in might and unsubjected to man.

      The chained unicorn represents a risen Christ, in the garden of paradise and the chains around the unicorn represent the chains of Christ’s love for the maiden (Virgin Mary) and mankind.`

      was also reading that the three lions of England should be or originaly were three leopards,

      `The English usually referred to them as leopards, French heralds continued to call them leopards, and, during the Hundred Years’ War, the French sometimes referred to the English as ‘the leopards.`

    485. euan0709 says:

      Mist001.5.02 pm
      Its not uncommon for professional people (women) to continue to use their maiden name,in particular Lawyers. Hope that helps..

    486. HandandShrimp says:

      An example would be Laura Kuenssberg. She is in fact Mrs Kelly and Kuenssberg is her maiden name.

      Women who have forged a career before marrying often retain the name they are well known within that career for professional reasons.

      It really is that simple.

      Harriet Harman is married to Jack Dromey.

      I hope I have enriched your day 🙂

    487. CameronB Brodie says:

      Folk will most probably understand Euroscepticism from the British media’s point of view, which is itself rooted in Euroscepticism. So here’s a European perspective.

      Identity and Nationalism in Euroscepticism: Does a strong national identity inevitably cause a weak European identity?

    488. Mist001 says:

      Ok, here’s another couple of questions then.

      Why does Iain Duncan Smith not use his real name which is George Iain Duncan Smith?

      Why does George Osborne not use his real name which is Gideon Oliver Osborne?

      Why do politicians who like to portray themselves as honest, upstanding individuals feel the need not to use their correct names or titles?

      Why did Nicola Sturgeon even bother getting married if she intended keeping her maiden name? What was the point? Was it a tax dodge? Was it for appearances sake, like these generally Tory politicians who are happily married until they’re caught with a rent boy?

      So, it’s a legitimate question, why is she not Nicola Murrell or Mrs Murrell?

      I am genuinely curious about this.

    489. CameronB Brodie says:

      And a bit more insight into contemporary English political culture.

      How Europe’s Nationalists Became Internationalists

      Many European far-right parties made their mark by railing against the EU. Now they are appealing to a pan-European identity to further their goal of a racially pure, white Christian continent.

      Authoritarianism, populism, and nationalism have dominated the headlines in recent years. From India to the United States and across the European continent, this triad threatens the predominant liberal democratic order, both domestically and internationally. All three are closely intertwined. Both nationalists and populists claim ownership over the authentic will of the people, using it to frame their campaigns around overly simplistic narratives that pit “the people” (often ethnically defined natives) against a globalist, out-of-touch elite.

      But tropes like the “will of the people” tend be far more narrowly defined than their label implies, clashing with a much broader public perspective and forcing populist and nationalist politicians to adopt authoritarian methods to capture and maintain power. Far-right parties and most populists have traditionally been Euroskeptic, rejecting the European Union and opposing further integration inside its institutions….

    490. sassenach says:

      HandandShrimp @ 5-44

      Save your breath, misty is simply here to distract and deviate (like many before him!!).

      Ignore and hope he goes away

    491. schrodingers cat says:

      Mist001 says:
      why is she not Nicola Murrell or Mrs Murrell?

      I am genuinely curious about this

      changing your name only doubles the amount of spam, electronic and paper, that gets delivered to you

    492. callmedave says:


      Two candidates left in Scots Labour deputy leader race. 🙁

    493. robertknight says:

      Scot Finlayson…

      A bit of reading for you Sir. I remember the Christ connection from seeing a copy of this tapestry at Stirling Castle…

    494. Pete says:

      Maybe she’s a lesbian but really, it’s not important.

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