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Wildcat Pete And The Converts

Posted on July 01, 2020 by

What a band they were.

I wonder if he’d consider that a… Plan B?

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    1. 01 07 20 22:56

      Wildcat Pete And The Converts | speymouth

    251 to “Wildcat Pete And The Converts”

    1. Andy Ellis says:

      Look on the bright side Stu, Peter Bell’s head may well explode!

      A silver lining for every cloud!

    2. Ruglonian says:

      😀 😀 😀

      Wonder what the angle is – could it be he’s eyeing the Deputy job?

    3. Muscleguy says:

      I agree a program of complete non cooperation with the British govt would be a good move. Along with withdrawing our MPs unless and until there is agreement on a referendum.

      Then we simply start acting like an independent country, building the necessary institutions and disentangling our govt finances from any possible WM interference. Also running trials with the nascent Scottish Revenue Service to hoover up ALL the taxes paid in Scotland if necessary.

      Basically making it obvious that we reserve the right to UDI if we deem it necessary.

    4. Bob Mack says:

      Is this the same guy who wanted to be the Speaker in the House of Commons not so long ago?

      He could limbo dance under a snake.

    5. ronnie anderson says:

      How many more times have we Scots & the FM to be insulted by Bojo& co before we react but alas another chance to create political impasse lost

    6. Effijy says:

      I couldn’t have heard this correctly?
      The Build build build money Bojo is promising
      the UK doesn’t apply to Scotland ?

      No?

    7. schrodingers cat says:

      i cant see the point in holding a referendum which the unionists will boycott

      why not just call a snap holyrood election ?

    8. schrodingers cat says:

      ronnie anderson

      the next holyrood election will be political end point, beyond which, there will be no more asking others to take action, no more political parties to work for us,

      we will need to do it ourselves

    9. North chiel says:

      Schrödinger’s cat @ 1018 pm . A snap Holyrood election ( if possible) with a majority of votes for Independence being mandated to end the treaty of union would certainly be my choice with no section 30 “ agreement” . The stated aim to remain or rejoin the EU as per the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland in 2016 referendum.

    10. Fireproofjim says:

      There is more rejoicing in heaven over a repentant sinner etc. etc. I don’t care how Pete sees the light as long as he sticks to the road to Independence, and soon.

    11. Joseph says:

      Pish Wetart

      Sorry,,,,wee typo there.

    12. Capella says:

      In politics, as in comedy, timing is everything.

    13. schrodingers cat says:

      North chiel

      i dont see the point in muddying the waters with the issue of the eu

      simply, vote snp for an indy scotland

      if we get 50%+, as the present polls suggest we would, we would have a mandate to call for our indy. if bojo refuses then we move into a different phase of operation, civil disobedience.

      no point in asking the snp or any other political party to do anything, other than walk out of wm, the democratic woad to independence would have ended

    14. Craig says:

      You of course know the headline is always a lie?

      As is the rest of the story in most of the rags

    15. Inverclyder says:

      I’m done. Enough is enough and they can shove it for a vote from me next year if there is a Holyrood election.

      Might never vote again as it’s seeming more and more pointless by the day.

    16. schrodingers cat says:

      Capella says:
      1 July, 2020 at 10:45 pm
      In politics, as in comedy, timing is everything.

      very true, but the time remaining to make this move is very short

      im concerned bojo is planning to close down holyrood before we can make a move. it is only the 2nd wave of virus in england that is stopping him making his move

      for all of the talk about what the snp should or shouldnt do, our options are pretty limited too, an indyref without a s30 or a hollyrood election.

    17. Beaker says:

      What’s Pete Wishart going to do?

      Let me guess, a physical takeover of Holyrood, with Pete leading the charge. The AUOB diehards trampling over wee Nicola. Blackford trying to keep up. Carlaw displaying crass ignorance as usual and wittering on…Gove will appear on tv but incomprehensible due to excessive drooling and spluttering…

      International indifference, apart from Trump who will confuse Holyrood with Hollywood and call out the National Guard…

      Be a good film – Holyrood has Fallen…

    18. Joseph says:

      The out pouring of sympathy towards Hong Kong Independence by the English media is astonishing.

      Yet when Scottish Independence is reported by the same english media, see how their reports turn nasty and spiteful towards any thoughts of Scotland becoming an independent nation.

      Bias doesn’t even come close to describe their anti-scottish reporting

    19. Ruglonian says:

      SC – a quarter of all posts?
      Are you trying to beat Cam’s record, or do you just like the sound of your own voice a bit too much?

    20. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      “for all of the talk about what the snp should or shouldnt do, our options are pretty limited too, an indyref without a s30 or a hollyrood election.”

      Care to provide some legal justification to your opinion?

    21. stonefree says:

      @ Ruglonian at 9:59 pm

      “Wonder what the angle is – could it be he’s eyeing the Deputy job?”
      I’d bet that gig will be Smith’s

    22. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruglonian

      i very rarely post here these days, cameron posts every day.
      the last 2 days i have come back, but fear not, i wont be here long

    23. schrodingers cat says:

      doesnt need legal justification, just logic cam,

      what other course of action can you think of?

    24. TJenny says:

      Could this be Pete Wishart trying to deflect folk from voting for ISP ’cause the SNP really, really have a plan for indy2, this time. Honest. 😉

    25. CameronB Brodie says:

      “i very rarely post here these day”

      Given the previous threads revealed a personality that exhibited views that could be considered sexist, racist, homophobic, and transphobic, I’m a tad relieved, frankly.

    26. mark whittet says:

      New poll shows that Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party – with former SNP leader Alex Salmond as leading candidate – set to win 23 MSP seats + become second-largest party in Scottish Parliament

      Full results from Survation poll
      https://tinyurl.com/y8e37ws4
      http://www.SIRP.Scot

    27. HYUFD says:

      Joseph Are British riot police yet out on the streets cracking down on Scottish nationalists like Chinese police are against pro independence protestors in Hong Kong? Has Westminster yet made secession illegal as the Chinese government has for Hong Kong? Has subverting the power of Westminster yet been made illegal as it now is in Hong Kong to subvert the power of Beijing with life in prison as the maximum penalty? Has Westminster law been given precedence over all Scottish law as Chinese law now has precedence over all Hong Kong law?

      Has Westminster arrested nationalist leaders as Madrid has done in Catalonia? See how reasonable Westminster has been so far with nationalists

    28. Dan says:

      Yay! for #AlternativeGroundhogDay

      @Beaker at 11.03pm

      Are ya sayin’ The Revolution Will Be Televised? 🙂

      FFS, that’d be bloody typical as I just removed the aerial from ma chimney a week back coz there’s been nowt worth watchin’ for 15 years. 🙁

    29. schrodingers cat says:

      @cam

      quite an accusation cam, care to say where these post are?

      i must have really wound you up

      good

    30. Papko says:

      “HYUFD says:
      1 July, 2020 at 11:35 pm
      Joseph Are British riot police yet out on the streets cracking down on Scottish nationalists like Chinese police are against pro independence protestors in Hong Kong?”

      Exactly.
      Must say I welcome the proposal to extend British citizenship to the 3 million eligible in Hong Kong, can you imagine what that influx of enterprising, hard working people will do to our economy?
      If we get our fair share of 300k in Scotland, offer inducements for them to settle in our most deprived areas, they will have those places transformed in 20 years.

    31. Capella says:

      Like many others, I was disappointed at the lukewarm response of the SNP on 31st January, a date that seemed to be a deadline of some kind. I wasn’t aware then that there was another deadline, the 30th June, beyond which it would not be possible to extend the transition period. In theory, the transition period could be extended indefinitely.

      But now it can’t. So this may be the appropriate time for the SNP to move towards the end game.

      If setting a trap to catch a monkey it’s best not to spring the trap while the monkey is still free to run away. That’s what I mean by timing.

      BTW there was a time when Stu would point out that the headline is always a lie.

    32. CameronB Brodie says:

      Most Scots are far too domesticated to take to the street to defend their human rights. We’re British ffs, or at least that is what we’ve had drummed into us since forever (see the BBC in Scotland, for example). Well, since the mid-19 century actually, roughly coinciding with the birth of modern English Torydum. Not that this is a coincidence btw, as British nationalism expresses the ethos and tradition of modern English Torydum. So it’s not surprising that it leads to a harmful and debilitating social pathology, which needs effective remedy if Scotland hopes to achieve social sustainability.

    33. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi mark whittet at 11:33 pm.

      You typed,
      “New poll shows that Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party – with former SNP leader Alex Salmond as leading candidate – set to win 23 MSP seats + become second-largest party in Scottish Parliament”

      This is OLD false “news”! Over a week old, in fact.
      “Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party” is NOT registered with the Electoral Commission as a political party.

      Alex Salmond has NOT been approached to be a candidate.

      In other news, the difference between a duck is that it only has one leg that is both the same. The difference between the other duck is that it has one leg less too many.

    34. HYUFD says:

      Papko Indeed and they would all be loyal British Unionists too

    35. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      No I can’t be arsed, though I’m not prone to lying. From memory though, you stated the GRA is none of your concern as it is a woman’s issue, which could easily be considered a misogynistic point of view. You were also derogatory towards Turks and non-binary sexuality, and your hostility towards natural law also raises concern.

      I know my shit, so I’d appreciate it if you were so stop trying to tell us all what to think. You don’t have much of a clue, IMHO.

    36. HYUFD says:

      Mark Whittet If a Scottish Independence Referendum Party stood on the list, then Unionist Parties would just stand one slate of combined candidates in each region on the list in response and only stand against each other and the SNP at constituency level

    37. Joseph says:

      Hyfud

      The citizens of Hong Kong who are eligible for english citizenship have just replied to Boris’s offer.

      They have told him they would rather die in a Hong Kong gutter than become a citizen of stinkin England.

      Can’t say a blame them

      Who the fuck in their right mind would want to become an English citizen?

    38. Robert Graham says:

      Aye Pete I wonder what made you change yer mind ? , was it maybe a lot of Independence supporters starting to question who’s side are you actually on , putting your name forward as Speaker in the House of Fun or it’s correct name The English Parliament makes you look suspect

    39. HYUFD says:

      Joseph Most citizens of the world as England is a democracy not a dictatorship like a substantial minority of nations still are and it also has a gdp per capita far higher than the global average and free healthcare etc

    40. schrodingers cat says:

      im not sure the headline is correctly reporting what was actually said by pete, stu???

      what pete actually wrote was

      1. Make the next Holyrood election squarely about independence, to give us an UNDENIABLE mandate.
      2. Go to Section 30 formal demand.
      3. If the U.K. Gov says “no”, which it inevitably will, then we demonstrate to the EU and others that we’re effectively hostage, but we offer the U.K. one last chance.
      If they don’t take it, get the EU to help run a referendum.
      4. Win said referendum.

      i agree with point one but after that, i dont see why pete thinks the rest is relevent. we would no longer be a political movement, we would be a protest movement

    41. schrodingers cat says:

      tsk tsk cam,

      deary me

    42. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Indeed. Do better or do one.

    43. Capella says:

      @ SC – he possibly assumes that the UK wants to be able to have passporting rights for financial services in the EU, which Michel Barnier has said are out of the question. But OK, let’s see whether Scotland wants to join the EU and then we’ll reconsder. ?

      Which would you rather have Boris? This poverty stricken addendum to the USA flooded with chlorinated chicken? Or this neighbour of the EU with many trading benefits, so long as you play ball?

      Putting it crudely.

    44. schrodingers cat says:

      HYUFD says:
      2 July, 2020 at 12:08 am
      Mark Whittet If a Scottish Independence Referendum Party stood on the list, then Unionist Parties would just stand one slate of combined candidates in each region on the list in response and only stand against each other and the SNP at constituency level

      ————–

      lol great stuff, i hope they do
      this only highlights your lack of knowledge of scottish holyrood elections
      the unionst parties between them already hoover up over 96% of all list seats

      how will introducing a single unionist party on the list improve their quota?at best they will win 50% and the isp the other 50%

      result, a veritable bonfire of unionist msps.. snigger bring it on clown shoe

      in 7/8 regions of scotland

    45. Joseph says:

      Hyfud

      Engerland is finished.

      The Brexit vote seen to that,,,and the icing on the cake is Covid19.

      That will kill off engerland without a trace..

      Nobody is Interested in a wee skint nation on the edge of Europe called engerland that produces nothing.

      Engerland is a debt ridden, flee bitten basket case that the world has forgotten about.

    46. Ruglonian says:

      Can no one see a joke for what it is anymore? Why all the quizzing about looking beyond the headline? Cosy Feet Pete has been winding folk up for years, I’m sure he can take this mild ribbing 😀

      CBB – you’re right to call schrodingers cat out for some of the nature of his posts.
      For example, I think the abbreviation he was using when discussing the trans debate is disgusting!
      For someone who consistently claims to not give a fuck, he seems awfully determined to unnecessarily inflame a delicate situation (we’re talking about people’s lives here – and I don’t wish so much as hurt feelings on anyone, even those who I think are misguided in the ideology they support).

    47. schrodingers cat says:

      @capella

      dont get me wrong, i very very pro eu. i just think that when it comes to the manifesto, its better to keep it simple

      for indy vote snp

      we dont need a 650 page document this time

    48. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruglonian says:
      Why all the quizzing about looking beyond the headline?
      ——————————–

      because that is what the rev has been teaching wingers to do for the last 7 years?

    49. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ruglonian
      I’m always keeping an eye on things, and I’ll call it as I see it. 😉

    50. Robertknight says:

      LOL!!!

      Please Westmonster, can we have IndyRef2? – No!

      Please Brussels, will you support our IndyRef2? – Que voulez-vous dire?

      Please Vatican, will you support our IndyRef2? – Tu chi sei?

      Please UN, will you support our IndyRef2? – Who? Where?

      Wishy-washout obviously thinks we’re the wimpy kid in the playground who needs someone on his shoulder before even attempting to stand up to the playground bully.

      Pathetic, frankly.

    51. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruglonian says:

      For someone who consistently claims to not give a fuck, he seems awfully determined to unnecessarily inflame a delicate situation
      ——————-

      no im not, im deliberately trying to disrupt the endless trolling on this site by the folk determined to hijack the independence debate wrt trans debate.

      successfully i might add, even oor cam has stopped posting endless hyperlinks, ok he’s reverted to outright abuse but he’s harmless 🙂

    52. Capella says:

      @ Ruglonian – Rev Stu used to say that the headline is always a lie. Now he incritically reprints headlines from Paris Gourtsoyannis, Westminster correspondent of The Scotsman, because it disses Pete Wishart. But what did Pete Wishart actually say? Are we now to take The Scotsman as an honest broker in the constitutional question?

      That’s the point.

    53. schrodingers cat says:

      pete is sating he wants the next holyrood election to be a plebicite on indy

      good, i agree with this, as for the rest of his plan, eg asking for a s30. i think its irrelevent. if e vote 50%+ for indy in the next holyrood election, events will over take the sg and pete wishart
      the only thing left for him and the other mps to do will be to formally walk out of wm for ever

    54. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 12.41
      But yes you are,you’ve bullied and crashed your way through since you showed up….for no good reason other than your own “feels” about the content of the site you’ve deigned to check back in with.

    55. schrodingers cat says:

      liz g

      the revs rules of this site

      if you dont like a poster scroll past his post, you’re in no way obliged to interact with me

      oh and btw, it isnt just my feels, many many wingers have complained about the nature of the site lately and how it is turning off indy folk. they believe it to have been hijacked by trolls. so do i

    56. schrodingers cat says:

      @capella

      the fact that ruglonian is encouraging folk to not look past a headline is………….disturbing

    57. Capella says:

      And yet – the trolls are remarkably absent tonight?

    58. Liz g says:

      Capella @ 12.43
      As I read it…especially with the ” one liner ” from the Rev,it was the whole thing that was not to be taken at face value.
      While yes Stu has taught us that the headline is always the lie. He also demonstrated that IF there’s any truth to be found it’s usually about 3/4 of the way down the article….I took this one to be even void of that rule of thumb and therefore only worth one line and not a dissection of it in the round!

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      You simply don’t understand the law, so I wish you’d shut the fuck up and let others formulate opinion.

    60. schrodingers cat says:

      Capella

      🙂

      you noticed, btw, i know liz g isnt a troll, re reading my last post i didnt make that clear enough

    61. Capella says:

      @ SC – yes it was drummed into us by Stu that the headline is always a lie. That you have to read all the way down to the last paragraph before the MSM purveyor of anti independence bilge will actually admit the truth – because they have to somewhere on the page.

      Also, anything in quotation marks is a lie e.g. “wildcat independence referendum”.

    62. schrodingers cat says:

      @cam

      who’s stopping them? or you for that matter?

      you only speak to me cos im the only one who ever even acknowledges you on this blog

      everyone else thinks your a boring old annoying fart who’s best avoided so i’d be wary of alienating yer only fan . me 🙂

    63. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 12.54
      Make up yer mind man,are ye troll hunting for the greater good as told to Ruglonian @ 12.41 or not…
      Because as much as your in denial unless the Rev requested ye stage an intervention …it’s how you’ve been feeling and where to put them that’s coming through here….

    64. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – agreed. I live in hope that the campaign will move up a gear. One thing the Rev is brilliant at is gutting the MSM and exposing the venality.
      But for now – it’s bedtime for Bozo.

    65. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      You actually appear to think you’re omniscient. I think you’re a fraud tbh, and you don’t really know how to support democracy. Even though you imagine you do.

    66. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – re the Cat – they have very sharp feet. But otherwise sound. IMO

    67. schrodingers cat says:

      @capella

      yes he did, on more than one occasion. he was very forceful about that point

      this is why i find it very very strange indeed that he would do this?? has the rev been got at?

      i posted a summary of pete wisharts article, i dont agree with everything he says but his first point, that we should turn the next holyrood election into an indy plebicite, i most certainly do

      the fact that a leading mp in the snp is saying this is…. newsworthy?

    68. Liz g says:

      Capella @ 1.07
      I think so too 🙂

    69. schrodingers cat says:

      Liz g says:
      2 July, 2020 at 1:03 am
      Shrodingers Cat @ 12.54
      Make up yer mind man,are ye troll hunting for the greater good as told to Ruglonian @ 12.41 or not…
      Because as much as your in denial unless the Rev requested ye stage an intervention …it’s how you’ve been feeling and where to put them that’s coming through here….

      ————–

      im sure that this means something to someone somewhere, but unfortunately i dont live in that particular dimension

    70. dakk says:

      Happy to embrace new converts to the cause, including people with dissociative identity disorders.

      Get him to put it in writing.

    71. Capella says:

      @ SC – not got at – but very angry about the “betrayal”. See blog article. I don’t understand it myself but I don’t have the inside knowledge that Stu and Craig Murray say they have.
      So – to be continued.

    72. schrodingers cat says:

      hey cam!!

      its you who is the god botherer, not me, omniscience is your domain, i bow to your superior training

    73. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 1.08
      What I see … It’s not news worthy because it’s not serious,as much as we would like to pick apart the pros and cons of this approach…it a sop to yes voter’s nothing more.

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Are you still hostile to a respect for Natural Law?

      Justifying the Natural Law Theory of Constitutional Interpretation
      https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3720&context=flr

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      “i bow to your superior training

      Finally, the cat has seen the light. 😉

    76. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 1.11
      Don’t be obtuse,its beneath ye

    77. schrodingers cat says:

      liz g, im soz but am really struggling to follow yer posts. u ok?

    78. schrodingers cat says:

      genuinely liz g

    79. schrodingers cat says:

      liz g

      you dont know me well enough

      nothing is beneath me 🙂

    80. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      “i bow to your superior training

      Finally, the cat has seen the light. ?

      halleluyah, all hail the great prophet zarquan 🙂

    81. FiferJP says:

      Pete Wishart is more of a tame pussy.

      I see he brought a “Prime Minister (Nomination) and Cabinet (Appointment) Bill” which was defeated. He’s too comfy down there, the SNP have no business making or proposing laws and bills for Westminster when their raison d’etre is to get out of there.

      Bet the git cries himself to sleep every night because he can’t get ermine.

    82. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      If you weren’t so ignorant yet full of yourself, you might actually be someone I could like. 😉

      Natural Law and Everyday Law
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/192694679.pdf

    83. schrodingers cat says:

      Liz g says:
      2 July, 2020 at 1:15 am
      Shrodingers Cat @ 1.08
      What I see … It’s not news worthy because it’s not serious,as much as we would like to pick apart the pros and cons of this approach…it a sop to yes voter’s nothing more.

      ================

      i think you are referring to pete wisharts article…………mmmm im not so sure, ive been wittering on about turning the he into a plebicite for months now, you know that, but this is the first time ive seen an snp mp say the same.

    84. Ruglonian says:

      Jeezo!
      I was making a joke about Stu’s joke 😀

      I’m well aware of his ‘teachings’ since I’ve been here for years!!

      Lighten up folks or I’ll have to resort to disclaimers 😉 🙂

    85. schrodingers cat says:

      @cam

      the cat sobs uncontrollably,…. i love you cam…. i want to have yer children 🙂

    86. schrodingers cat says:

      Ruglonian says:

      Jeezo!
      I was making a joke about Stu’s joke

      dont give up yer day job rugrat

    87. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 1.19
      It’s good to know nothing is beneath ye..but can I ask if all those “feels” about the Wings Trolls are behind ye now ?
      Are ye over it 🙂

    88. schrodingers cat says:

      Capella says:
      @ SC – not got at – but very angry about the “betrayal”. See blog article. I don’t understand it myself but I don’t have the inside knowledge that Stu and Craig Murray say they have.
      So – to be continued.
      ————
      agreed, something no cosher in denmark about this

      but for me, i dont let myself be distracted by the inevitable cat fights that arise within organisations

      and with all due respect to stu, regardless of whats happened, i have been campaigning for scottish independence for a very very long time. i wont allow it to be derailed, this close to the finish line

    89. schrodingers cat says:

      liz g

      yes, i have read everyone of cams hyperlinks and am now a born again zarquonite, i am a reformed character and i promise never ever to ridicule or insult anyone one ever again

      honest 🙂

    90. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 1.24
      You may very well have been wittering on for months.
      But it’s been floated YEARS ago on here!
      It’s no exactly a secret that the refusal of a referendum would/could/should result in each and every election being a verdict on the continuation of the Union.
      That Pete Wishart now thinks this and that the National think it’s news…is the point of the Wings article TO Wings reader’s with the wherewithal to have known this..

    91. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I hope you appreciate I continue to rip the piss out of your opinion, until you accept the vital role that Natural Law plays in enabling constitutional justice. Mkay!

    92. Rob Outram says:

      oh ffs, getting tired of this now.

      There’s Politics and there’s politics.

      We plebes can bump our gums to endless delight.

      I mostly agree with The Rev but have latterly detected a distinct lack of a solution to the impasse and more of a niche criticism of a genuine disagreement that is clouding the whole independence effort.

      Can we either put up or shut up?

    93. schrodingers cat says:

      i remember going to a rally and going to the wings gazebo, i was really worried cos when i was meeting and speaking to folk, i couldnt remember if i had insulted them or not 🙁

    94. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 1.36
      Well…Nae Backsliding mind 🙂

    95. schrodingers cat says:

      liz, pete is playing politics

      he’s a politician

      and yes it isnt news to you or i, what is news is that a senior snp mp has proposed this route in public

      it is they who will decide the direction of the campaign. i can only be thankful that they have taken some good advice

    96. HYUFD says:

      Schrodingers Cat Basic logic, a separate Unionist party set up for the list that does not fight constituency seats would take list seats Labour, the Tories and LDs would not get

    97. schrodingers cat says:

      Rob Outram says:
      There’s Politics and there’s politics.
      We plebes can bump our gums to endless delight.
      Can we either put up or shut up?

      just carried a mini poll with my friends here in the 11th dimension and the results are that you —-….shit they got lost in cyberspace

    98. Liz g says:

      Stringers Cat @ 1.40
      While I’m ( where’s Thepnr when ye need him ) ignoring the dejavu here.
      There is no one who needs to be worried about coming to the Wings stall…. You will be welcomed and insulted only by Ronnie Anderson ( who is on retainer to do precisely that ) we have had need to do anything other than socialising we keep our debates for here!
      I’m sure you’ll appreciate protocol and order given your back ground and let me reassure you the Stall is disciplined..

      So now…back to the matter at hand

    99. HYUFD says:

      Joseph England is still a top 10 global economy and would be even without Scotland, still has the biggest city in western Europe and is still a top 10 military power

    100. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 11.44
      Agreed…if course he is,and, why wouldn’t he!

      ( Apologies for the name in the last post didn’t catch it before I hit send )

    101. HYUFD says:

      LizG Given Beijing’s actions in Hong Kong today and Madrid’s in Catalonia Boris will look reasonable when he refuses indyref2 and ignores any attempts at secession

    102. HYUFD says:

      2014 was a once in a generation referendum

    103. schrodingers cat says:

      HYUFD says:
      Basic logic!!

      ill do this slowly for the hard of thinking

      which… list.. seats… are…. you…. referring to?

      the… unionists… already …. win … all …7

      ….possible… list….. seats…. in….. glasgow.

      how will an new unionist party pick up any more?? admit it FUD, numbers aint yer thing are they ?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Scottish_Parliament_election#Glasgow

    104. CameronB Brodie says:

      HYUFD
      “….and is still a top 10 military power”

      Is that a threat? 🙂

      Natural Law Lecture 2005
      THE POLITICAL ETHOS OF CONSTITUTIONAL
      DEMOCRACY AND THE PLACE OF NATURAL LAW IN
      PUBLIC REASON: RAWLS’S “POLITICAL LIBERALISM”
      REVISITED

      https://academic.oup.com/ajj/article-pdf/50/1/1/6654330/ajj-50-1.pdf

    105. schrodingers cat says:

      lol Thepnr was exactly the person i was thinking off when i made that comment a few mins ago..

      the rev blocked him a while back

    106. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      2 July, 2020 at 1:39 am
      schrodingers cat
      I hope you appreciate I continue to rip the piss out of your opinion, until you accept the vital role that Natural Law plays in enabling constitutional justice. Mkay!

      ————–

      im practicing my yogic flying as we speak

    107. HYUFD says:

      Look at South Scotland for example where the SNP win most list seats, a Unionist party that did not stand at constituency level would win virtually all the seats given the 3 main parties do stand and win at constituency level

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      This is what the world looks like when you understand the law, which don’t. So I hope you appreciate the education you are getting btl on WOS.

      Aristotle and Law
      The Politics of Nomos
      6 – Natural Justice and Natural Law

      https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/aristotle-and-law/natural-justice-and-natural-law/FAEC8C223A46673DC382FF98992127DD

    109. schrodingers cat says:

      HYUFD

      the snp won 3 seats in the south region in 2016 the unionist parties 4

      because of the way the actual votes are counted and the seats allocated

      if you replaced all unionists parties with a new list only unionist party, it would still only get 4 list msps

      its the d’hondt system, look it up

      its a real grave yard for yoons determined to makew a fool of themselves in public

      actually. no. your right, the best thing you can do is to set up a list only yoon party, fill yer boots FUD

    110. HYUFD says:

      It wouldn’t, it would win more as the Unionist vote would transfer en masse to the new list Unionist party which as it had not won any constituency seats would win all the existing Unionist list seats plus take some list seats from the SNP

    111. schrodingers cat says:

      i dont do aristotle cam

      i told ya, pre socratics are my forte

      btw, i now have a printed out copy of a treatise on the isness of is

      bed time reading mon ami

    112. schrodingers cat says:

      as i said FUD
      please please set up yer new yoon list party

      you’re absolutely right, you show these upstart sweaties, why dont ya

      🙂

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Some bedtime reading to knock some of that smugness of your puss.

      Justice Beyond Liberalism: Natural Law and the Ethical Community in Hegel
      https://brill.com/view/book/9789004311961/B9789004311961_004.xml

    114. schrodingers cat says:

      hegel is the father of both left and right wing ideology

      couldnt i have some lighter bedtime reading ?

      the hobbit or summat?

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I’m not really into fantasy and prefer to keep things real. Night, night. 😉

      The Intersection of Natural Rights and Positive Constitutional Law
      https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2263&context=facpub

    116. Liz g says:

      Hyufd @ 2.05
      Honestly…nae wonder people think ye dae it deliberately..

      The NEW party DO NOT INTEND to run for ALL the Regional Seats.
      They will run only for the one’s the “system” indicates they can win from the British Parties.
      The ones that let the British though on the List when the SNP had the most votes.

      They will calculate each and every seat,they don’t care about more votes than the SNP…they want more votes than Annie Wells,Murdo Fraser,Richard Leanord ect….They Want to take the List for Indy… We didn’t choose the system but we can use the system.

      That’s why I’ve been so disappointed with Scot Goes Pop,James Kelly could have helped with this….all the Indy bloggers could….they could have got together and worked out the numbers for each seat ( there’s no that many ) then put out over the Indy media clear cohesive advice we could trust about how best to make our vote count….but NAW…. They saw circles within circles.

      The Yes Movement learned how to Campaign,about Fractional Reserve Banking and how to fund a media…but och naw it’s going to be far to difficult to work out actual voting.

      It’s just so sad that it looks like we need to do it without our best guy’s input….so sad!!!

    117. schrodingers cat says:

      @Liz g

      dont tell him pike 🙂

    118. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 2.52
      Welll… It’s no exactly him I’m telling..just pinging off his signal..so to speak… to coin a phrase…!
      I have to ask!! Do you understand cryptic me any better?

    119. Oneliner says:

      Doris Johnson’s latest mantra

      Build Build Build

      should not be confused with a fart in a bathtub

      Buidl Buidl Buidl

      although it is similar in the amount of gas produced.

    120. Liz g says:

      Oneliner @ 5.24
      Yuck..speak fur yerself… 🙂

    121. Liz g says:

      Ladies DO not fart..
      Their bum just coughed

    122. Robert Louis says:

      I think, that when all is said and done, folk need to just stop paying heed to what Mr Wishart has to say on independence. And that includes folk in the SNP.

      I am sure he is a nice person, away from politics, I was a fan of Runrig etc.. but, and it is a big but, he has no special powers of insight into the constitution or public attitudes. People pay heed merely because he is the SNP’s longest serving mp, but that in all reality is no qualification to ensure sense is being spoken. William Cash of the Tories, is one of their longest serving, and he is a xenophobic Europe – hating bigot. Jeremy Corby is one of Labour’s, yet we all know the utter drivel he talks in relation to things.

      So, look, it is all very well, the SNP and NS saying several years ago, ‘here is our roadmap to indy’ , but doggedly sticking to it regardless of events is just dumb. Events in Scotland and the UK are changing and have changed, beyond anybody’s wildest dreams. And Scotland has been repeatedly shafted.

      In just a few months, Scotland will be forcibly removed from the EU, wholly and completely against its wishes, by England. THAT requires action. THAT demands a new plan, to prevent such a thing happening. It is simply no good, for the SNP leadership to sit back, and wax lyrically about ‘how we are sticking to what we previously said’. It just won’t do.

      The time is now. The SNP and Scotgov, need to be ready to stand firm and do whatever it takes to keep Scotland in the EU. If they do not, then they are ignoring our consitutional rights as a country, and allowing England to treat Scotland as a colony. It just won’t do.

      The point of taking action, is to bring it all to the attention of the public, both in Scotland and around the world. Day after day, the Scotgov should be making it clear they are not happy. So, they demand a section 30, with a deadline for reply, when refused, they call a press conference and announce they are seeking EU oversight for a referendum. Then that gets world media attention. The point is most Scots have no idea what is being done. The Scotgov and SNP simply MUST start doing things, so folk in Scotland and around the world are made aware.

      The current policy of carrying on as usual, simply won’t do. People are getting very, very angry, and the SNP/Scotgov seem either unwilling or wholly unable to tap into that sentiment. They need to stop behaving as though it is business as usual, because it isn’t. It really, really isn’t.

      Leaving it until aftef May 2021 or whatever, is beyond inceompetent. It is lazy, lazy, lazy. Yes, it will be hard, but my god, nobody ever said it was gonna be easy to get rid of London’s shackles for good.

      They need to push, push, push, in every interview, in every way. Stop playing along with Westminster. Make it an issue. Make it a ‘consitutional crisis’. For goodnes sake DO SOMETHING.

    123. Tartanpigsy says:

      Robert Louis
      Finally a post worth reading, nae wonder a lot of the old regulars don’t bother posting anymore.
      Handbags and scratchy nails a constant through the comments.
      Re Wishart, maybe he’s seen the light, more likely, not.
      We do need action this year as Robert says. The farcical situation of acceptance that we leave the EU in January cannot be allowed to pass without action.
      I’m hoping the next few months see some plans come together

    124. Ottomanboi says:

      @HUYFD
      Scottish independence will be won, like independence was secured in most countries over the last hundred year, not by cosmetic referenda or legalistic mind games but by shear force of determination, a characteristic generally found in a committed few prepared to risk all to secure the prize.
      Scotland may be headed in that direction.
      New generation, new rules, new game.

    125. ahundredthidiot says:

      TEST

      Last comment I see was 7:02am

    126. Famous15 says:

      Shopping is a nightmare for me being elderly,however what makes it really bad is when the rules are flouted.

      After three really bad sweary experiences I detect a pattern. Burly men (refer to Ruth Davidson for more detail) two with Rangers FC taps and one with Union jack tattoos on his neck in three instances a week apart push past customers clearly to get a reaction . When the courteous reaction comes they meet it with foul mouthed derision. “Ignorant old bastard” (the irony) and “Get your fucking tape measure out grandpa”.

      Tinfoil was never my choice of head dress but I begin to wonder whether the OO or the Tories are using the virus for political purposes. Do you think they could sink that low?

      Of course they were not wearing masks but I thought that was only political under Trump.

    127. Dan says:

      Hmm, interesting to read of the UK Government’s new found concern with regard to adherence of Treaties…

      “Boris Johnson accused Beijing of a “clear and serious breach” of its treaty with Britain by imposing a much-criticised national security law on the territory.”

      “Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab accused Beijing of a “grave and deeply disturbing” breach of the treaty which “threatens the strangulation” of Hong Kong’s freedoms.”

    128. site was out there with the 502 ? message

    129. Dr Jim says:

      Pete Wishart is a constituency MP no more no less, he has no more information on what the SNP as a government are going to do than a blogger on the Internet, nobody tells him because he’s not in the government

      Like everybody else Pete Wisharts thoughts and imaginings and guesses are his own

    130. Mike d says:

      Whats with the 504.gateway time out . Is someone/thing getting at this site?

    131. Republicofscotland says:

      Does the Scotland Act hold the provision for Holyrood to hold a independence referendum without the need for Westminster consent?

      Well according to Joanna Cherry,we will find out soon enough as Martin James Keatings, the convener of the grassroots group Forward as One has instructed QC Aiden O’Neil to bring the case before the Court of Session.

      The case is currently live, and it seeks a ruling that the Scottish parliament has power under the provision of the Scotland act to legislate to hold a independence referendum.

    132. Rm says:

      Aye 504 gateway getting it a lot.

    133. Dan says:

      @Scot Finlayson & Mike d

      Yeah, I also had partial loading of pages and timeouts for around an hour between 9am and 10am.
      Similar to issues the site had a week or so back.

    134. Rm says:

      Thinks something or someone starting to worry will be panicking shortly.

    135. J Galt says:

      For once Boris is “talking up” Scotland – to the 3m prospective Hong Kong refugees.

      Kill two birds with one stone….

    136. Ottomanboi says:

      @Dan
      Beijing might respond by saying HK is an integral territory of the PRC as your government considers Scotland to be. We view treaties in a similar light.

    137. Republicofscotland says:

      As much as I find Johnson’s inane border comment tedious at best, Scotland is recognised and defined legally and politically and geographically in the 1998 Scotland act, and it refers to Scotland’s border on several occasions.

      Of course Westminster recognises Scotland’s borders they moved them covertly in 1999 via the The Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundries Order, to redraw our maritime border in favour of England stealing around 6000 sq miles of water including at least six major oilfields as well.

      This is the union that pretends we’re a valued partner, more like a exploited colony than valued partner.

    138. Ottomanboi says:

      Re HK
      https://www.freepressjournal.in/world/china-urges-britain-to-stop-meddling-in-hong-kong-affairs
      Perhaps the Chinese might take an interest in the Scottish question on the enemy of my enemy principle. We certainly could do with a leg up from some quarter.

    139. Republicofscotland says:

      Well Pete Wisharts epiphany on Plan B, has certainly got the unionists in a twist. Never directly elected Murdo Fraser, called it deranged, Pamela Nash of Scotland in Union ranted about Wishart and separation, but unsurprisingly the majority of pro-indy movements breathed a huge sigh of relief, as if to say finally, and they seem to be getting behind it.

    140. Dan says:

      Link to twathater’s post on last thread for those that may have missed it due to site issues. It’s a copy of a comment on a National article.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/fannies-by-gaslight/#comment-2543947

      Jason Michael’s response to Pete Wishart’s recent blog.

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2020/07/01/pete-wisharts-three-point-plan/

      No doubt “OIAG” HYUFD will be along shortly to justify this.
      https://twitter.com/alanferrier/status/1278272550544572424

    141. Republicofscotland says:

      We know Westminster is pressuring the Scottish Judiciary to do away with trials by jury (Craig Murray is feeling the effects of this right now) and the not proven verdict.

      This process was advanced in 1999, when the Crown office independent from government for around 500 years was transferred to the political control and direction of Westminsters appointed Scottish secretary at the Scottish Office.

      Now a case that has been held in Dumbarton Sheriff court, has now gone to England’s Supreme court, and the jist of the matter is English courts can now rule on Scots matters if the complainant isn’t happy with the Scottish courts outcome, they can take it across the border.

      How far this remit extends to and on what matters it takes in I cannot say, however it looks like a further attempt to weaken Scots law.

    142. Robert Graham says:

      Oh Pete has been on SKY News with Adam Boulton he was asked about the SNP withdrawing from government institutions and the fkn idiot said no we won’t be withdrawing , for Christ sake Pete don’t try and calm them down , Wind the fkrs up ,make their media wonder what happens next, keep them guessing you idiot , Christ on a bike is there any bloody troublemakers in the SNP contingent at Westminster , Alex is badly missed and it shows , when Blackford stands up Boris and crew start to laugh no bloody wonder know one takes him seriously .

    143. Robert Graham says:

      502 Server Error, Rev get off yer arse , Reboot the fkr ha ha use the tried and tested method switch off- switch on Works most times , if not get down to the pub oops they don’t open till Saturday oh Off License then .

    144. Gary45% says:

      Wildcat Pete and the Converts.
      Their new double sided A side single.

      We’re on the road to nowhere,and London Calling.

      All played by Pete on the accordion whilst wearing his groovy tartan waistcoat and trousers.
      A wee tartan politician in a wee plastic tube.

    145. Bob Mack says:

      It appears Pete has retraced his retraced steps, and is now back where he began. All clear?

    146. shug says:

      Well the Chinese must be bursting a gut laughing at Boris offering residency to 3 million Hong Kong citizens.
      One wonders where they will put them here.
      The Tories did not want immigrants. Funny how they go from hating immigrants to opening the doors
      Of course, it is nonsense and the Chinese know it. Any more lip from Boris and Peking will switch off their phone systems and power systems and anything else controlled by Chinese software, and that is pretty much anything.
      China will rattle their money box and London will come into line.

    147. Are the techtonic plates shifting. Nicola getting a bit more fiesty re the border, very clear challenge to orthodoxy by Joanna and now Pete Wishart u turning from Plan A is the only option and excommunicting form social feeds anyone suggesting otherwise to a plan B. Is this movement towards SNP actually doing somehting or just more carrot for the troops to get hem up the next election hill?

    148. Kat says:

      So on Tuesday in response to this article – https://nation.cymru/news/half-of-conservative-voters-in-england-support-english-independence-poll/ – Angus MacNeil tweeted:

      Support for English independence is at 35% …come on the other 65%
      YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU.

      Then he complained in a retweet about comments:

      Some disparaging remarks on timeline, on the capabilities of England for being independent and will their currency be the “Bob” ?? …
      I back England!!

      So I responded to his retweet with:

      OK then, why don’t you propose a Bill at Westminster for a UK Referendum. Like the EU one only this time all 4 nations have to agree to remain in the union. It they don’t, we split. Surely you can get some N Irish & Welsh MP’s to sign up to such a Bill. C’mon, I dare ya.

      It’s now Thursday and still not a peep of a response from Angus to my suggestion. For the life of me, I’m at a loss as to why that would be.

    149. schrodingers cat says:

      robert Louis says:

      The time is now. The SNP and Scotgov, need to be ready to stand firm and do whatever it takes to keep Scotland in the EU. If they do not, then they are ignoring our consitutional rights as a country, and allowing England to treat Scotland as a colony. It just won’t do.

      ————————-
      nice rhetoric robert but what are you actually suggesting they do?

    150. schrodingers cat says:

      @robert

      withdrawing permanently from wm is the end goal for everyone in the snp

      threatening to and actually doing so, before we are indy, is a use once only option

      i guess the snp mps are saving that particular grenade for a rainy day

    151. schrodingers cat says:

      @kat

      maybe angus didnt respond cos he thought it was a shit idea and is too busy responding to others whose suggestions merited a reply

    152. Mike d says:

      Shug 12.10pm. Oh i think its crossed bojo’s mind to dump those 3 million from hong kong in scotland.they’d be so grateful, they would vote for his beloved union in any referendum.

    153. Capella says:

      @ Republcofscotland – I thought contempt of court cases are always judged without a jury?

      Re Supreme Court – it is supposed to be the highest court of the UK, not of England. Before Tony Blair set it up, the court of final appeal was the House of Lords. (OK then ECJ).

      So there isn’t a great deal of difference – although I haven’t read the small print. Not ideal of course but that won’t change till we are out of the UK.

    154. schrodingers cat says:

      @capella

      i always thought the hol’s was last resort for england

      in scotland it was the procurator fiscal?

      i could be wrong about this, im unsure

    155. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi schrodingers cat.

      There were two ‘highest courts of appeal’ re Scots Law, for civil and criminal. One was the Court of Session and the other was the Scottish Law Lords in the HOL.
      Can’t remember which was which.

    156. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Mark Whittet,

      Thankyou for posting that link with the poll that shows a new party headed by Alex Salmond would Hoover up 23 new Indref seats without causing harm to the SNP.

      In fact the new part would mibees help the current leadership either grow a pair, or get their jotters. I had not heard of this potential political party before. Many thanks for posting the link Mark…

      http://www.scotlandsindependencereferendumparty.scot

      Having Alex Salmond back in Holyrood is something I would vote for, again and again and again.

      Though unlike Nicola “gies ANOTHER mandate”, methinks Alex would only need the one.

      With Alex Salmond you get a politician with integrity that does what he promises to do and has dedicated his life, latterly at great personal cost, to getting those of us who want true Independance for Scotland closer to that goal than any other living mortal.

      Gaunyersel the new anti-McWoke, IndyRef guarantee party.

    157. schrodingers cat says:

      @bdtt

      i think you’re right

      but the upshot of imposing the supreme court on scots law, apart from being in breach of the treaty of union, pretty much ensures when the push comes to the shove, we wont get a fair hearing.

      i like joanna cherry, but im not convinced that the legal route is worth pursuing. indeed, it could make things worse if it declares scotland to be subordinate to english law

    158. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – I think you’re right. The Scots law lords in the HoL are now the Scottish reps in the Supreme Court. I expect when we are out of the EU there will be no right of appeal to the ECJ (or is it the ECHR?) Any lawyers out there?

    159. Dogbiscuit says:

      Boris Johnson’s latest wheeze of forming a Politburo of council leaders renders Scottish and Welsh First Ministers superfluous.

    160. Capella says:

      @ SC – I don’t think imposing the Supreme Court on Scots law is any different to the previous set-up of imposing the Scottish law lords in the HoL. It’s probably the same people. But the Ts&Cs need to be looked at.

    161. schrodingers cat says:

      Al-Stuart says:
      Gaunyersel the new anti-McWoke, IndyRef guarantee party
      —————

      does yer ma ken yer usin’ her pc?

    162. Dogbiscuit says:

      Scots can appeal to the HoL .

    163. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      No they can’t! Keep up to speed…

    164. Dogbiscuit says:

      Famous 15 part of the Government’s conspiracy against the people is to get you standing in line wearing a pointless mask training you into obedience.You still need permission to live your life and there is no mention of a repeal of the Government’s. ‘ emergency powers’ .
      Government is now regulating businesses in much the same way as old Soviet Russia.
      This is an evil time in world history. Most of your politics are irrelevant now.

    165. Republicofscotland says:

      “Republcofscotland – I thought contempt of court cases are always judged without a jury?”

      Good point Capella, however, reading Mr Murray’s blog on his unjust predicament, he came across as though he should be entitled to a jury, I must say I find myself agreeing with him.

      In my opinion if there’s the possibility that you could go to prison you should be entitled to a trial by jury.

    166. Dogbiscuit says:

      You have lost your rights and freedoms remember?

    167. schrodingers cat says:

      @Dogbiscuit

      bang on old fruit but you forgot to mention the sleekit take over of bwitain by those contemptable shape shifting alien bastards, so you did

    168. schrodingers cat says:

      Martin J Keatings on twitter just now

      @MartinJKeatings
      Be clear. The sec 30 case IS NOT “asking” if the Scottish Parl has the power to hold a referendum without WM consent. We state categorically that the Scottish Parliament “already has the power”. This case is about confirming it and daring the Tories to prove otherwise.

      We’re not acquiescing to a position of asserted dominance over us by Westminster and extending our hands like a national oliver asking “please sir! can we have some more!”. Independence isn’t born out of acquiescence. It’s born out of saying we are independent! Prove otherwise!

      You don’t walk into a shop and seek the permission of the salesperson to give them your money or buy their product. You assert your dominant position as the customer, note your interest in something and then demand they tell you why you should buy it from them.

      Why should it be any different with nationhood? The Scottish Parl can deliver a far better future to the people of Scotland. EM offers nothing we can’t do here ourselves. The difference is that their salespeople lied to us in 2014, so why should we ever buy from them again?.

    169. Chris Downie says:

      I’ll say this tongue in cheek, but the thought of Pete Wishart giving up his cushy career politician status and going back to playing third-rate teuchter emo with Donnie Munro, almost makes me want to abandon independence altogether.

      *Cringe*

    170. crazycat says:

      @ Liz g at 2.42

      The NEW party DO NOT INTEND to run for ALL the Regional Seats.
      They will run only for the one’s the “system” indicates they can win from the British Parties.
      The ones that let the British though on the List when the SNP had the most votes.

      They will calculate each and every seat,they don’t care about more votes than the SNP…they want more votes than Annie Wells,Murdo Fraser,Richard Leanord ect….They Want to take the List for Indy… We didn’t choose the system but we can use the system.

      It isn’t possible to decide which regional seats to stand in. You can only decide whether or not to contest an entire region.

      That may be what you meant, but your wording makes it look as if decisions would be made at seat level.

    171. Colin Alexander says:

      Here is the real world translation of what Pete Wishart was saying:

      I have a cushy job for life as long as I play both camps, (just like Sturgeon does): That way I get pro-indy and imperial votes. I am pro-indy but never want independence to happen during my lucrative career at WM or I’m out of a job.

      Sturgeon managed to kick indy can doon the road from 2014 to 2020. Let’s gie it another big kick so my fellow devolutionist SNP MSPs get re-elected in 2021, so that’s the indy can kicked doon the road to 2026. I can get re-elected in 2025.

      Of course the UK will never cooperate in Scotland’s independence, if people want indy. Of course the EU won’t interfere in the UK State. But, you can fool some of the people all the time.

      Life is good as a British MP or British MSP at Holyrood. So don’t change it.

    172. HYUFD says:

      OttomanBoi So if Scottish Nationalists want to suck up to Beijing you will have no complaints if Boris and the British government imposed a Beijing style crackdown on sedition and secession movement from Scottish Nationalists then

    173. schrodingers cat says:

      eu trade talks breakdown

      Face-to-face talks in Brussels between officials were due to continue into Friday, however, that goal has been dashed after negotiators failed to find compromise over issues like the level playing field, fisheries, and the role of the European Court of Justice after Brexit.

      UK chief negotiator David Frost explained: “We have completed our discussion of the full range of issues in the negotiation in just over three days.

      “The negotiations have been comprehensive and useful. But they have also underlined the significant differences that still remain between us on a number of important issues.”

      Michel Barnier, lead negotiator for the EU, said: “Our goal was to get negotiations successfully and quickly on a trajectory to reach an agreement. However, after four days of discussions, serious divergences remain.”

      Barnier accused Britain of disregarding the EU’s own red lines.

      “The EU side had listened carefully to UK prime minister Boris Johnson’s statements in recent weeks, in particular, his request to reach a political agreement quickly, and his red lines,” he said

      “The EU engaged constructively”, he continued, “… [And it] expects, in turn, its positions to be better understood and respected in order to reach an agreement. We need an equivalent engagement by the United Kingdom.”

    174. Sensibledave says:

      SC 2.44

      You wrote “ Why should it be any different with nationhood? ”

      … er, because of a little issue called democracy?

      When last asked, “the people of Scotland” where clear that they didn’t want independence. I quite understand your frustration but imposing outcomes against the will of the people does not usually end well.

      Again, your solution lies in convincing the people of Scotland of the positive benefits of an independent Scotland … rather than the Westminster/England “bag” messaging that appears at the forefront of almost every thread.

    175. Sensibledave says:

      … “bad”!!

    176. schrodingers cat says:

      @colin

      what pete actually wrote was

      1. Make the next Holyrood election squarely about independence, to give us an UNDENIABLE mandate.
      2. Go to Section 30 formal demand.
      3. If the U.K. Gov says “no”, which it inevitably will, then we demonstrate to the EU and others that we’re effectively hostage, but we offer the U.K. one last chance.
      If they don’t take it, get the EU to help run a referendum.
      4. Win said referendum.

    177. Dogbiscuit says:

      So mandatory face masks in shops .The latest command passed onto Sturgeon. Why was it not enforced from the start? The plan demands masks are made mandatory mow. They’ll be mandatory on the streets next.
      The bent over and supine are dragging us along to hell with them. This is leading to mandatory vaccines. Our human rights are being abused by this First Minister .Look how inhuman she appears these days .
      Beware of busy bodies taking control of your future. Your politicking is a distraction from reality.
      There will be a two tier society, the vaccinated herd and we the Refuseniks. The Refusnik will be shunned by and shut out from vaccinated herd.

    178. schrodingers cat says:

      Sensibledave says:
      You wrote “ Why should it be any different with nationhood? ”
      ——————
      actually, it was martin keating who wrote it
      ————————-
      When last asked, “the people of Scotland” where clear that they didn’t want independence.
      —————————

      and the next time we ask them, in the very near future, the polls indicate they will overwhelmingly vote yes

      … er, because of a little issue called democracy?

    179. Dogbiscuit says:

      Keep reading your Tea leaves half dead cat

    180. Sensibledave says:

      SC 2.59

      …. whilst I would obvs prefer an agreement ASAP, it is apparent from most negotiations involving the EU, that it is always a last minute deal. Although I voted Remain, I am pleased with our negotiation stance now which, I believe, will yield the best results in the circumstances.

    181. schrodingers cat says:

      @Dogbiscuit

      i have a muzzle shaped face mask i could lend you?

    182. Colin Alexander says:

      Here’s one to ask your loyalist / imperial / Unionist associates:

      A no-deal Brexit increases the likelihood of Irish re-unification.

      In the event that N.Ireland voted to leave the Union in favour of Ireland’s re-unification,

      Would that change how you feel about Scottish independence:

      A) It would make no difference

      B) I would be more opposed to Scottish independence

      c) I would be less opposed to Scottish independence

    183. mogabee says:

      Man, it takes forever to drive past the loonies these days!

      Good post Robert Louis and echo much of my own thoughts.

    184. schrodingers cat says:

      @Sensibledave

      you really think there will be any kind of deal?

      the english nats currently in power dont want one

    185. Sensibledave says:

      SC

      You may be right (about when you ask them next), however, as I have said before, and whilst I have no skin in the game, I don’t think the outcome is as predictable as you suggest.

      Project Fear 2 will have so much ammunition to support a “not now” result. Brexit, Eu membership, currency, oil, jobs, borrowing, borders, travel, tax, etc … PF2 will make PF1 look like a nursery rhyme I fear.

    186. schrodingers cat says:

      mogabee says:
      Man, it takes forever to drive past the loonies these days!
      Good post Robert Louis and echo much of my own thoughts.
      ————–

      it was a nice speech, very uplifting, but it didnt actually say what should actually be done

    187. kapelmeister says:

      They’re saying masques are to be compulsory. Is that one o’ they Henry VIII laws?

      Seriously folks, Nicola’s control freakery is…well, out of control.

    188. HYUFD says:

      Colin No it doesn’t, Northern Ireland has a fantastic deal that keeps it in the customs union and most of the single market while still staying in the UK post Brexit.

      Hence the last poll in Northern Ireland in February was 52% opposed to leaving the UK and Irish unity, only 29% in favour

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nireland-poll/poll-shows-northern-ireland-majority-against-united-ireland-idUSKBN20C0WI

    189. Sensibledave says:

      Sc 3.12

      …. “you really think there will be a deal”

      Yes … because you and the EU, now fear there might not be one … if you follow my drift.

      In previous negotiations, we were hamstring because the EU knew we couldn’t leave without a deal.

    190. Robert Graham says:

      Kapelmister or whatever ever your disguise is Might try a speel checker before you start your shift

    191. schrodingers cat says:

      In previous negotiations, the hoc was a very different place, bojo has since ejected all the moderate tories, replaced them with kippers and won a huge majority in england

      i really dont think there will be a deal, and if there is, it will be a fig leave, nothing else. but we shall see

    192. ahundredthidiot says:

      Holy FUCK – my scumbag unionist ‘colleagues’ are all now proven correct. The SNP are a n*zi party. Facemasks mandatory – Jesus fucking wept.

      Freedom has gone – the lunatics are winning.

      If only there was a statue of that wee c*nt Sturgeon I could go pull down.

    193. Robert Graham says:

      Colin -Re Pete pretty sure he has been rumbled he had the chance with Adam Boulton (SKY) and you could hear reverse gears grinding instead of leaving the English media wondering what was coming next , he laid their minds at rest , bloody idiot and he’s a professional politician, Christ .

    194. kapelmeister says:

      Robert Graham. Ye didnae get ma wee joke. No matter. Although you might try consulting an encyclopedia before you start your shift.

    195. ahundredthidiot says:

      The SNP seem intent on tearing Scotlands economy apart.

      We will now be forever tied to big brother England.

      Game’s a bogey – it’s all over.

      Fuck it.

    196. schrodingers cat says:

      re martin keating’s court case

      i dont think getting a ruling that scotland can hold a referendum will be a big problem. it is a very well established fact in law that non legally binding referendums can be held by pretty much everyone. nice to have, but not really worth anything

      alex set an unwise precedent signing the edinburgh agreement, i said so at the time, on this blog, however, its done now.

      as for actually holding a referendum without a s30 from wm, i think its a bad idea. only today, bojo is setting up a Politburo of council leaders to bypass holyrood. what with unionists abstaining and unionist controlled councils refusing to even organise polling places, ballot boxes and all the necessary personnel require to hold a vote of any kind, indyref2 would descend into a farce

    197. Sensibledave says:

      SC 3.34

      Personally, I think that the economic fall out from CV19 will mean that both sides need a free trade deal – or recovery will be even harder than it is already.

      With the changes that you allude to in the HoC, the EU, for the first time, that Bojo might “walk”. The UK is the Eu’s single largest export market in the world. Why would they allow tariffs to be introduced on that trade if they didnt have to – in what is going to be difficult economic times for every country?

    198. schrodingers cat says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      Game’s a bogey – it’s all over.
      Fuck it.
      —————————
      bye then

    199. Colin Alexander says:

      HYUFD, Cheers.

    200. Colin Alexander says:

      It’s on record that in talks with the EU, Nicola Sturgeon accepted the Irish Backstop.

      Why would an FM of Scotland accept a special deal for N.Ireland that excludes Scotland when both voted Remain?

    201. schrodingers cat says:

      @sd

      i have often seen this argument about the difference in trade between us and the eu used to justify why the eu will buckle

      its bollox though mate, the figures hide the fact that while 50% of the uk’s export trade is with the eu, only about 5% of the eu’s exports are with the uk

      eg 6% for france, germany about 9%. for most eastern eu states, exports to the uk are vanishingly small
      all 28 eu countries will vote on any deal, and have a veto

      the red lines set out by the uk and eu negotiators are not the same. the uk negotiators can bend or even move its red line barnier cannot without expressed consent from all 28 eu members

      im sure the eu would like to come to some agreement, to avoid disruption within the eu. but im not convinced bojo does

    202. schrodingers cat says:

      @colin

      whether nicola accepts it or not is irrelevent, she has no place in the negotiations. also she accepted it only in as much as she wanted the same backstop for scotland, without which, it would put scotland at a disadvantage to ni

      thats on record too

    203. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Ghislaine Maxwell arrested by the FBI on child sex charges!

      Oh dear, there you go.

      Asking for a friend (in the FBI) has anyone seen prince Andrew? …. No me neither.

    204. Ottomanboi says:

      HYUFD
      Re HK
      My comment was rather tongue in cheek and rather ironic, nevertheless the population of HK is mainly Cantonese speaking, they are ethnically Han Chinese. Culturally they share the Chinese identity. The British treated HK as a colony with a powerful Governor and a sham democratic, appointed LegCo giving the appearance of running the place. not as some ‘special case’.
      They quit tail between legs leaving the HKers to deal with Beijing as Chinese citizens. HK is not as important economically to Beijing as it once was Shanghai having overtaken it. HK is something of an administrative anomaly and absorption into China proper cannot be far way. Continued British meddling might ironically speed up that process. It would certainly be popular among citizens of the PRC.
      3million turning up on England’s shores might not be so popular. That white man’s burden, just put it down Sir!

    205. schrodingers cat says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      Holy FUCK – my scumbag unionist ‘colleagues’ are all now proven correct.

      ——————–

      aye, gonna be difficult for you an yer chums in yer flute band to practice while wearing a mask 🙂

    206. Ahundredthidiot says:

      SC

      who the fuck do you think you are?

      gobshite….. you and CBB both.

    207. HYUFD says:

      Colin Alexander Well Sturgeon does make May look an effective negotiator!

    208. schrodingers cat says:

      Jason Smoothpiece says:
      has anyone seen prince Andrew? …. No me neither.

      he has been retired from public service, currently holed up on the island of lamu off the kenyan coast and out of uk jurisdiction

      you wont ever see him again

    209. J Galt says:

      Independence supporter since I was a child – and I still am, perhaps even more so.

      Direct debit to the SNP cancelled as of an hour ago, resignation letter on it’s way.

      Today’s edict was the last of many straws.

      If she and her motley crew are still in charge next year then no visit to the polling station for me – unless there is a viable alternative Independence Party by then.

      Come on Alex f**k them up!

    210. HYUFD says:

      Ottomanboi Hong Kong was held on a lease and realistically the UK was not going to defy China trying to get it extended.

      However if Hong Kong effectively becomes fully absorbed into China, Hong Kongers will have fewer rights than Scots do now in the UK.

      64% of British voters welcome the offer of UK citizenship to British Overseas Nationals in Hong Kong

      https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/07/01/support-helping-british-passport-holders-hong-kong

    211. Sensibledave says:

      SC 3.56

      … I have no reason to doubt your figures. The issue is that those figures are borne by actual trading companies. So, the proverbial German car manufacturer potentially faces a situation where Sterling has tanked and there are 10% tariffs on car exports. Maybe that means that say, a merc or a BMW is effectively 20% more expensive. That’s a huge problem for sales and exports. So Mercedes contract by degree, reduce production and revenues and profits and corporation taxes. Billions of euros not generated. Why? Because they are too stubborn to do a mutually beneficial free trade deal?

      I am inclined towards a fudge conclusion that results in free trade.

    212. schrodingers cat says:

      Ahundredthidiot says:

      then again the bass drum thumper will be just fine, lucky bastards eh?

    213. dakk says:

      Going to be a big increase in angry shoppers next week.

      They’ll be the ones with bulging eyes wearing the red white and blue face coverings.

      Could be fun.

    214. Capella says:

      @SC 4.03 – now that was lol funny 🙂

    215. schrodingers cat says:

      @sd

      car manufacturing has moved on, now they are euro assembly lines (almost 100% automated) and supplied by parts collection warehouses (JIT)

      so a bmw made in england is, due to quality control, the same as those made in france

      over 70% of cars made in the uk are exported to the eu.

      bmw will simply ramp up output from existing assembly lines in the eu and reduce output from from assembly lines in england to a home market levels

      all car manufacturers will do this, it makes the cars built in the eu 20% cheaper. its a no brainer

      england on the otherhand will shed 1 million car workers. that will hurt

    216. dakk says:

      ‘who the fuck do you think you are?

      gobshite…..’

      Calm doon, so long as you’re ootside yae can still practise

    217. Republicofscotland says:

      Jacob Rees-Mogg now repeated the lie that there’s no border, and that the UK is one country.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18556476.jacob-rees-mogg-claims-scotland-just-district-area/

    218. schrodingers cat says:

      Sensibledave says:
      I am inclined towards a fudge conclusion that results in free trade.

      ————

      you might be, and if wm had listened to nicola’s proposal for exactly that, it would have been an option.
      however, that boat has sailed, their will now be no free trade agreement. it is one of the eu’s red lines

    219. J Galt says:

      dakk @ 4.16pm

      You assume all Independence supporters are on your side of this argument.

      Not a safe assumption.

    220. schrodingers cat says:

      @J Galt

      do you want me to contact meals on wheels for you?

      you might need home deliveries now

    221. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      Did they ask them if they were still happy if they moved in next door also. Because the desire to get foreigners out of England seemed to be a driving force to get out of the EU. I suspect we would see the shortage of toilet paper again if even half of them took up the offer to move here.

    222. dakk says:

      J Galt
      ‘You assume all Independence supporters are on your side of this argument.’

      Didn’t argue anything. Lighten up man

    223. ahundredthidiot says:

      SC

      Since you are so keen on mentioning the OO, I will share something with you which might also explain the difference between you and me.

      Last night, in my town square, a dozen or so men and women gathered in a circle to plan their OO march. When I left the building I was in I walked through them – not around. And they moved. I know cowards when I see them. The SNP now fall into that category and it will be ten years before the people of Scotland wake up and realise that.

      My comment further up about the game being over – is a personal one. You feel free to fight on, but I’m done. At the very least, I will save money by not donating to the Party I used to be a member of.

      Fell free to keep on internet jive talking though – for my money – your a little shitebag as well.

    224. Gary45% says:

      You wear a mask/covering in the shops, whats the problem? it should have mandatory from day one.
      I wear one to protect other folk and also myself, once again, what’s the problem? Yes I know they are a pain in the erse, but if we want to get back to some normality, anything that helps is the only decent thing to do.
      The pish excuse of “its infringing on my sovereign, Dunkirk/Churchill Spirit human rights” is pathetic and childish.
      So far the ones I have seen in my twice a week shopping, are the classic knuckle-dragger. Had my wee SNP shopping bag last week and the look from a pair of Brexit, No voting Yoons I know was priceless.
      They could go down to England in the huff to do their shopping, but I think its the same rule down there?
      dakk@4.16
      Yes it should be laugh a watching them rant and rage, no mask/face covering= no shopping. woohoo. I hope the shops enforce it, as the bus drivers seem to let the punters do what they like. Seen many punters on buses this week not wearing them.

    225. Rm says:

      Scotland are independent, we’re in a union with three other countries, not sure if Wales or Northern Ireland are independent but Scotland is, so who has the right to stop us ending the union, things change, things move on, Scotland wants to go it alone if england, Wales and Northern Ireland want to stay together without Scotland I’m sure the Scottish people won’t object good luck, all the best Hope things work out for you, it hasn’t for us we’ve gave it a try Aye a good try, three hundred years of a try, so see ye later, goodbye.

    226. schrodingers cat says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      When I left the building I was in I walked through them – not around. And they moved. I know cowards when I see them.

      ——————-

      wow, are you Camouflage? did you just swat away them charlies like flies?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgRXdozljRs

    227. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      “i like joanna cherry, but im not convinced that the legal route is worth pursuing. indeed, it could make things worse if it declares scotland to be subordinate to english law”

      We have already established you don’t understand the law and have no respect for it, so why are you still trying to tell us what’s what? It looks to me as if you wish to constrain public imagination and opinion. Do you still reject a respect for Natural Law?

    228. Sensibledave says:

      SC 4.25

      ..”its one of the EU’s Red lines”

      ….of course it is. its a negotiation!

      And just like the “no cherry picking” arguments from 2/3 years ago, that will go the same way. DO you remeber? Access to the single required the “red line” of “Free Movement” too. Gone! ECJ Gone! etc.

    229. schrodingers cat says:

      @sd

      everything has now gone, its called no deal

    230. t42 says:

      “ahundredthidiot says:
      Facemasks mandatory – Jesus fucking wept.”

      Your mask slipped a while ago.

    231. schrodingers cat says:

      @cam
      so why are you still trying to tell us what’s what?

      cos the question of What is? was part of the treatise on the isness of is you hyperlinked to last night?

    232. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      “Access to the single required the “red line” of “Free Movement” too. Gone! ECJ Gone! etc.”

      Yet you appear unmoved that such illiberal craziness is forced on Scotland. We already know you reject Natural Law, so kindly do one. TA

    233. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Who the fuck are you, ’cause I smell shite whenever you’re around?

    234. schrodingers cat says:

      @cam

      sniff… i thought you loved me 🙁

    235. Ahundredthidiot says:

      t42

      haha, who the fuck are you, ya clown, Ive been here since before ’14, so maybe 77 should start paying me if ive gone this long undetected.

      haha, thanks, i needed cheering up, especially after reading that pish from gary ‘remember you lost’45%

    236. schrodingers cat says:

      @anidiot

      dont worry, i’ll make a donation to the snp on yer behalf

      no need to thank me

    237. schrodingers cat says:

      @cam
      101 uses of a dead cat

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/101-Uses-Dead-Simon-Bond/dp/0517545160

      🙂

    238. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      You appear to think you’re some sort of comedian, where as I see more in the role of a clown. 😉

      Constitutional Jurisprudence of History and Natural Law:
      Complementary or Rival Modes of Discourse?

      https://scholarlycommons.law.cwsl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1494&context=cwlr

    239. Dogbiscuit says:

      Gary 45 you’re the pathetic and childish one. The masks are not effective.The intent of the mask is to depersonalise and dehumanise the wearer.
      You carry on swinging our wee SNP clothe man bag while fascist SNP Government keeps removing our Human Rights.
      The Government mandated ‘social distancing’measures are designed to destroy the economy and keep us incarcerated.

    240. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….where as I see you more in the role of a clown.

      Natural Law, the Constitution, and the Theory and Practice of Judicial Review
      https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3727&context=flr

    241. schrodingers cat says:

      Dogbiscuit says:

      The masks are not effective

      my muzzle shaped one is very effective, you sure you dont want to borrow it?

    242. CameronB Brodie says:

      Without a respect for Natural Law, Scotland will never enjoy the benefits of democracy.

      The Cambridge Companion to Natural Law Jurisprudence
      Natural Law Theory and Constitutionalism
      15 – Natural Law Theory and Constitutionalism

      https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-companion-to-natural-law-jurisprudence/natural-law-theory-and-constitutionalism/DAFC871D8E50003723DD2C391FB59D5C

    243. Gary45% says:

      To all the Yoon trolls, keep licking the toilet seats, you wont notice the taste, because of the shite that spews from your mouths.
      “Delusional fuckwittery at its finest.”
      Carry on overtaking on blind corners, you are warned not, but hey you know better.
      I’ve said before, I hoped even the inbreds would get through this unharmed, now I don’t give a toss, you’ve all been warned of the dangers, so rather than me raising a glass in your memory, I’ll sit back and piss myself laughing.
      Don’t bother commenting, I’m not wasting anymore time with inbreds.
      Happy licking,nom nom.

    244. J Galt says:

      @Gary45%

      Person in favour of masks/muzzles = Idiot

      Person not in favour of masks/muzzles = Intelligent person

    245. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi CameronB Brodie.

      From the link below…

      “In a nutshell, Pete Wishart’s argument makes an appeal to something closer to natural law – the law of fairness and basic human decency – than actual constitutional law to make the case for returning an SNP majority at the next Holyrood election.”

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2020/07/01/pete-wisharts-three-point-plan/

    246. Katie says:

      I think the best way to independance is to block off the border when (the well planned) 2nd wave comes for health reasons and then just ‘forget’ to unblock it. Just like a lot of so called ‘temporary (yeah right!)’ measures yo stop the deadly spread!

    247. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      Nice one. I knew I wasn’t selling folks a dud. 😉

      Constitutional jurisprudence
      Jurisprudence is the philosophy of law. In other words it seeks to explain what law is all about in the most general way.

      When we discuss and deal with the law, ordinarily we discuss specific subjects in law, for example income tax, labour law, family law, service law, criminal law and the law of torts. In jurisprudence we do not discuss these specific topics and instead we discuss such questions as: What is law? How did it originate? What is its object? What are its basic concepts?

      Therefore when we talk of constitutional jurisprudence we will have to ask for example: What is a constitution? What is its purpose?What is its position in the legal system of the country?

      A constitution is the social contract by which the people in a country are governed. It is a politico-legal document, unlike ordinary statutes, which are purely legal documents. A constitution is the fundamental law of the land, and therefore it prevails over all the other laws in the legal hierarchy, including statutes made by the legislature. It is the grund norm, as described by the eminent positivist jurist Kelsen….

      THEORIES OF HOBBES, LOCKE AND ROUSSEAU
      The theories of Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau were all social contract theories. Social contract theories were all secular theories. In other words there was no place for God in them. They were thus in contrast to the divine right theories (eg the divine right theory of King James I of England) which said that the king should be obeyed because he was the viceroy of God, and hence disobedience to king was disobedience to God.

      All the social contract theories had no place for God in them, and they were thus secular in nature. However there were sharp differences between them. We may consider the most important, that is the social contract theories of Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau.

      The theory of the British thinker Thomas Hobbes was the theory of the absolute sovereignty of the king; that of John Locke was of limited sovereignty of the king; that of Rousseau of no sovereignty (not even limited sovereignty) of the king….

      ….The theory of the British thinker John Locke (as set out in 1690 in his Second Treatise on Civil Government) is that though the king is sovereign, his sovereignty is limited and not absolute (as Hobbes had proclaimed). Limited by what? The answer is: limited by the natural rights which every human being has by the very fact of being a human being. The king cannot encroach on, or interfere with, these natural rights which include freedom of speech, freedom to practice one’s religion, freedom to own or acquire property, and liberty.

      https://journals.sas.ac.uk/amicus/article/download/1529/1407/

    248. cirsium says:

      @David Russell, 12.12
      Is this movement towards SNP actually doing somehting or just more carrot for the troops to get hem up the next election hill?

      It’s just more carrot for the troops like the FM holding the rally for Yessers before last year’s General Election. Ian Blackford repeating his tired rhetoric that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish people, won’t cut it anymore.

    249. vlad (not that one) says:

      A few humble suggestions:
      @C. Bro.: Please remember that you and the quantum moggy are on the same side.
      @S. Cat: Please remember thsat CB, like the rest of us, are on the same side. Please do not rise to provocation quite so fast. Now, regards the kind of near future we are about to experience I cannot find fault with your reasoning. Keep thumbs crossed meantime, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
      @Rev: Please keep the flame burning, the nights are drawing in. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?



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