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Wings Over Scotland

Where’s Richey?

Posted on September 24, 2018 by

We’ve been watching the Labour Party annual conference today, at which North British Branch Office manager Richard Leonard apparently gave a speech.

Unfortunately the BBC News coverage wasn’t very helpful with its captioning, so we have no idea which of the people below is him. Can anyone help?

But even if we can’t find him, what matters is that everyone’s having a super time.

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224 to “Where’s Richey?”

  1. Pat says:

    3rd photo down, that wouldn’t be Andy Kerr sitting next to the guy with the orange sash?

  2. blackhack says:

    It’s like a weird game of “find Wally” except the hall is full of Wallies and you have to find someone normal.

  3. Macjim says:

    Will the real Richard Leonard stand up… 😉

  4. Merkin Scot says:

    One of them is pretending to be Iain Gray, I am sure.

  5. Ian Brotherhood says:

    So much sadness in the eyes…


  6. Robert Wilson says:

    I think it’s the fifth picture down, the one with their head in their hands.

  7. Jamie Arriere says:

    We can rule out photo no.7 – I think that’s either Richard Wakeman or Michelle Mone with a false beard 😉

  8. Hamish100 says:

    I’m sure he is there but he is such a nondescript it is hard to tell. Does he occasionally were a blond wig? If so I’m sure I’ve spotted him!

  9. Dr Jim says:

    Oh you mean *Bouncy* Leonard

  10. Hamish100 says:

    I’m sure he is there but he is such a nondescript it is hard to tell. Does he occasionally were a blond wig? If so I’m sure I’ve spotted him!

    As for the possible Andy Kerr – is he wearing the sash his father wore?

  11. Stravaiger says:

    Richard who?

  12. Hamish100 says:

    Andy Kerr Ian Kerr blondy Kerr- confused? You should see Labour.

  13. galamcennalath says:

    With the Tory government in humongous disarray and totally unable to govern coherently … Labour should be moving into a position to achieve a landslide. Instead, a vernacular phrase relating the organising of a party in a brewery comes to mind.

  14. It doesn’t matter where Richard Leonard is. The faction of the Labour Party that happens to reside in Scotland have just told the Scottish people that they will ask to have included in the (unionist) Labour Party manifesto a denial of the right of the Scottish people to determine their own future.

    I simply do not know how to describe them or how to refer to them. And they have the utter gall to refer to themselves as ‘Scottish’.

  15. Corrado Mella says:

    What’s with the red ties?

    Would that be because they still pretend to be a party of the left?

    That’s false advertising.

  16. Street Andrew says:

    The guy with the long blond hair looks like Rick Wakeman.

    Richard Who…? were you looking for? Leonard ?

    What’s one of them then ? Woss’ee do?

  17. HandandShrimp says:

    Did he say anything sensible?

    Do I care?

  18. Thepnr says:

    Glum Glum Glum!

    That’s how they all look including Leonard himself and no fecking wonder.

  19. Gary45% says:

    The many faces of Dick Lennon.
    When you hear/see him in “action!?” you soon realise he is a totally useless “Dick”.
    Going by the glum faces was it Duggers on stage trying to set fire to her farts to raise some money? or maybe someone said something positive about the SNP? then again it just looks like the normal excited reaction from the Red Tories.
    Happy days indeed.

  20. Mike says:

    You might be forgiven if you believed that the Labour party invented the concept of the soundbyte.
    They use the concept in place of informing people about who they are what they are what they want to do what they intend to do and why.
    So how do we know what we’ll get with a Labour party Government under X leader.
    Well the answer is really dead simple and uncomplicated.
    You only have to look at who funds Labour the most and why they fund them. That and that alone determines the actual direction a Labour Government will take in office.
    If the people who donate the most to the Labour party are the same people who donate the most to the Tory party then you KNOW you’ll get Tory policy.
    If you want Labour to adopt Independence for Scotland then offer them a lot of money and buy the policy.
    UK politics 101.

  21. Normski says:

    To be fair, given the expressions on everone’s faces – they all seem a bit puzzled as to whom the man at the lectern is.

  22. Mike says:

    An example of how Labour operate on principle.

    If Labour get into power sometime in the near future Harry Potter will be part of the English curriculum for schools up and down the UK.

    We’ve been going about this the wrong way we could buy our Independence with enough party political donations.

  23. Iain mhor says:

    Aww Man! If I’d known the Edgar Winter Band were playing at it I’d have got a ticket.

  24. Street Andrew says:

    They all look very worried about something. Not a smile amongst them.

    Is that because …

    a) judging by what’s being said from the platform they don’t think they are going to forming a government any time soon….or

    b) they can tell it’s going to be a crap government if they do get in… ?

    Cue for a sharp exit from the UK I think. Much safer that way. And we can all smile fatly to ourselves for ever more.

  25. jfngw says:

    Can’t be Rick Wakeman, he’s a devout Tory I believe. Although maybe he’s spotted what the rest of us have, there is no difference.

    I would suspect most ‘rock’ performers are Tories, they just like to sing about equality, a number of them are at the same time ferreting their money away offshore.

  26. Thepnr says:

    Labour started to lose Scotland a long time back but the acceleration really began in 2012 with the group of Labour members that formed Labour for Independence.

    They were ridiculed inside the party, alienated and brushed off as irrelevant and a nuisance. They did though have success in persuading a good number of Labour supporters that they could still believe in what they thought of as traditional Labour values within an Independent Scotland and these people did come around to voting Yes.

    I was one of them.

    Of course the group were ignored at conference even the Scottish conference. Maybe just they should have listened to what they had to say and they wouldn’t be in the sorry state that they are now and still going downhill.

    This is a better speech made by Allan Grogan in 2012 the Labour member that founded LFI than Richard Leonard could ever make today. I hope those that still support Labour but oppose Independence will watch this and maybe think again.

  27. mogabee says:

    I heard, but don’t take my word as gospel, that he’d been taken by aliens, who didn’t know what to do with him and sent him back with a piece of their mind.

    If he starts to talk funny we’ll know it’s true. 😀 😀 😀

  28. David Mills says:

    Third from the bottom how appropriate

  29. remo says:

    I think it’s an “I’m Spartacus” thing.

  30. HandandShrimp says:

    I see he is under some sort of bizarre misapprehension that if UK Labour have no second Indyref in their manifesto then English/Welsh voters, regardless of what Scottish voters decide, can veto any move by the democratically elected government in Scotland.

    That is close to politically slashing ones own wrists.

    He is also touting bold federalism again. Fool me once and all that…

    It is almost like Richard on seeing Ruth taking maternity leave has tried on her No Surrender jacket and likes the way it feels. Red Tories Unionists/Blue Tory Unionists, they are all the same.

  31. Muscleguy says:

    I know! I know! it’s the Usual Suspects. Coming soon to an empty hall near you.

  32. Frank Lynch says:

    Truly the invisible man of Scottish politics.

  33. Gavin Alexander says:

    I saw Jesus, but not Richard.

  34. Donald anderson says:

    From the Invisible Man, “My name is Leonard and I am a Dick”.

  35. stonefree says:

    As usual, their faces are like Christmas Cards …..Aye Greeting

  36. Bob sinclair says:

    Dickie Leonard:
    For the Money, not a clue.

  37. Looks like they sure know how to party and have a great time!

    So there will be representatives there from Labour in Dundee. Chances some of them are supporters of Dundee Football Club.

    Dens Park on Saturday, then conference in Liverpool this week. Living the dream!

  38. Macart says:

    I tried! I really, REALLY, tried to raise the interest to look, but there was a rabbit in the field outside my window clearly enjoying a good run.

    Also? Ian B’s right. The sadness in the eyes… haunting.

    Back to rabbit. Oh, now rabbits.

    Fast worker. 🙄

  39. Dr Jim says:

    They could be all looking bored because they’re having to listen about Scotland a place most of them have never been don’t want to go and don’t care about anyway so hurry up and make that man go away …whoever he is, aand sing, *there’ll always be an England-Union and England-Union shall be free and red flags flying up high in free England keep Britain British for the many* I went a bit out of tune at the end there

  40. Giving Goose says:

    Re Independent Woman

    “…they have the utter gall to refer to themselves as ‘Scottish’.”

    They are not Scottish.
    They identify as British.

    Identity is a key part of the debate about Scotland’s future.

    Those who want the best for Scotland identify as Scottish.

    Those who do not share this vision for a better Scotland identify as British. They are British, therefore they must carry and share all the pejorative, negative aspects that go with being British.

    So, in no particular order – Nigel Farage, casual racism, xenophobia, imperialism, Orange Order, Neo-fascism, foodbanks, end of empire, humiliation, Brexit, elitism, Boris Johnson, Thatcherism, laughing stock, Johnny Foreigner, Windrush, invading Iraq, getting your arse kicked in Iraq, bombing civilians in Yemen….

    British identity is actually just a borrowed English identity. There is an attempt to hide this true identity but it’s English, pure and simple.

    Richard Leonard and all those who call themselves Scottish Labour, including those who vote for them, have adopted the same English identity IMHO.

    We should have the gall to refer to them as they truely are; they are English.

  41. smac1314 says:

    How do you find an irrelevant in a herd of irrelevance?

  42. haudonthenoo says:

    A nonentity without a brain ? Who cares.

  43. ScottieDog says:

    5 from bottom, Richy Branson. Spearheading labours new radical socialism.

  44. admiral says:

    Wee Dick again showing his complete and utter ignorance of what the Scottish Parliament can and can’t do by claiming a Labour administration at Holyrood will raise £billions from a wealth tax on the top 10%.

    Erm, no it won’t because Holyrood does not have extensive tax raising powers. Which, co-incidentally, is a position that Labour fully supported in the Smith Commission.

  45. desimond says:

    Am I alone in thinking that rather than aiming to take votes from the Tories, perhaps Labour are trying to take votes away from the Lib Dems?

    I may be giving them more praise than due but i think they me eyeing a small prize by gently edge Wullie out the way and grabbing the orange-tinted vote ( see what I did there?)

  46. desimond says:

    **Wipes eyes**

    Sad to see “For the many not the few” byline now reduced to half size font and soon to disappear over a horizon near you..bless

  47. Colin Stuart says:

    Not exactly mobbed in the one wide shot, is it?

  48. findlay farquaharson says:

    accepting such an insipid wee man as a leader is beyond me

  49. Artyhetty says:

    Well done you, must have been cringeworthy having to watch that happy occasion, full of life, positivity, and, togetherness. For the ‘few not the many’, that’s Labour’s motto when it boils down to it.

    That Dick Leonard of the Scottish branch office, is not very popular it seems, anywhere, oh dear.


    Love the ‘find wally’ comment, thanks gave me a much needed laugh.

  50. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I know this is childish but does anyone think the audience look like they are reacting to a serial farter in the hall.

    Look at the faces as the rev jokingly says at least they are having fun (not).

  51. Brutish Labour;
    `For the many not the few`,

    i always thought the brutish nationalist labour party was all inclusive to all minorities,

    `the few` are citizens as well,

    why the discrimination of `the few`,just `cause `the few` are fewer than `the many`doen`t mean they should be ostracized,

    it should read,
    Brutish Labour,

    `For the many and the few`.

  52. ahundredthidiot says:

    Anyone under the age of 50 in Scotland ever voted Labour is a mug in my book.

    Either that, or never had a hard day in their life.

    Now, I could say better late than never, but then I think of ’79 and ’14 and can’t help but feel the same mugs will be split down the middle again when Indyref2 comes.

  53. Dan Huil says:

    They’re all waiting for Billy Graham to come down from on high… but since they’re all fundilymundilymentalists it might be Jim Murphy… or [hic!] Fffffoulkes!

  54. frogesque says:

    Can Labour or any other party legally proscribe an Indy vote?

    Seems to me that such an action is discriminatory and/or racist.

  55. twathater says:

    I have a complaint to the advertising standards authoritity , on they bbbbbc photies up on the left hand side it says prominently ” LIVE ” IT SHURELY disnae apply to that lot of zombies , based on their faces and enthusiasm it should read ( barely a live ) ahve got it dickie is the specky guy in photie 12 wi the face that’s chewing a wasp or is it WASPI

  56. Sharny Dubs says:

    Sad looking bunch of misfits.
    I mean if you had to take your mum to a gig like this you’d be saying I’m only doing this because they need help. Just being kind.

  57. Thomas Valentine says:

    In 2014 I witnessed Douglas Alexander and a “journalist” from the BBC outside Paisley Train station as they read a script. Alexander made changes to the script. They then recorded this script as a real interview which I later watched on the BBC news. I remember how Alexander’s copy was held up next to the BBC woman’s head so he could follow his lines.
    Now I see all content from the BBC as play acting. Performance falsely presented as journalism. This Labour conference seems more stage play watched by bored extras who contrast with the professional actors playing the role of Labour MPs and MSPs.

  58. Tackety Beets says:

    Its was posted here many months ago, PMSL then & still do.
    Apoligies to the original poster.

    “Dick head of Scottish Labour”

    Say it fast , say it slow.

    Smiley fing.

  59. galamcennalath says:

    Does ‘the few’ refer to arch troughers like Blair, Brown, Darling etc … or are they exempt on the grounds of being closet Tories?

  60. sandy says:

    Was Elvis there?

  61. sandy says:

    Twathater, Before you complain, are you sure they are not cardboard cut-outs?

  62. PacMan says:

    As I’ve mentioned previously, I lurk in this site and post occasionally. TBH, that is the way I act towards politics now in general although more and more I no longer pay attention to politics, maybe it is apathy, cynicism or more likely being a realist in that our political system is so driven by the right wing media that it is swimming against the tide to want alternative politics.

    In that way, I am more susceptible to be turned from being a soft Yes voter. However, given the constant anti-SNP attacks from the opposition parties aided by a compliant media, not to mention recent comments from Labour politicians at this conference that as a 2014 Yes voter, I have to move on and that there will never be another referendum in my lifetime, that will never happen.

    This sort of rhetoric used to stick right in my craw but not now. The thing is what got me more angry was listening to this Labour lot who talks about being for the many, not the few, the Scottish contingent seems mostly white, male, fancy suited and considering their accents, most likely privately educated.

    They are not the many and they don’t represent the many. They should get as much media coverage as possible so folk can be reminded why they should never be allowed to gain any form of power.

  63. Alba woman says:

    Not a happy clappy day for the cult members…..Is Andy Kerr being let off from his sectarian remark?….surely not boys?

  64. Welsh Sion says:

    While you’re at it – see if you can spot ‘my’ Fud Minister, Carwyn Jones (due to leave December 2018). This hoboesque beard looks dreadful – and I didn’t like it one bit.

    At least Leanne won’t have to worry about wearing one when she becomes FM. 🙂

  65. Robert J.Sutherland says:

    sandy @ 17:24,

    No, he had already left the building.

    (About 15 years ago, in the case of NorthBritLab. It’s just that they haven’t realised yet.)

  66. Steambam says:

    Deselection? Good… out of the door, line to the left, one JC figurine each.

  67. Mark Russell says:

    Dunno, but the Meercat third from end bears a slight resemblance.

  68. Bugger le Panda says:

    One or two look like serial killers

  69. Daisy Walker says:


    Kirsty Hughes over on Twitter has an article out, along the lines of the SNP are ‘confused’ about Brexit and need to clean up England’s mess…

    ‘The SNP could turn their mixture of Brexit policies into a strategy that would put them much more on the front foot. They could denounce the damaging, growing chaos of the Brexit talks, insist it is time to stop Brexit and argue that Brexit should be stopped through a new EU referendum. It would be strong, clear and coherent. In doing this, they could clearly state they are speaking for the majority views of Scottish voters. And they could usefully take these arguments to EU27 capitals too.

    The Scottish government can certainly then argue too that, if another EU vote returned a ‘leave’ vote, they would demand another independence referendum. But refusing to ‘enthusiastically advocate’ a people’s vote without other groups or parties acknowledging Scotland should have another independence vote puts the Scottish government onto the back foot’.

    Ha, haaaaaaaaaaaaa, haaaa.

  70. dakk says:

    If he’s that stunning blonde with the dyed grey beard then I must say even I would be sorely tempted to put my X in HIS box.

  71. Robert Kerr says:

    Can you spot the undercover Spooks?

  72. Gary says:

    Maybe he should ‘get on with the day job’ instead of ‘banging on about independence’ all the time.

    It DOES make me wonder who writes these speeches though. He’s said that refusing a second referendum will be “in the manifesto” thereby potentially alienating 45% of the voting public. And remember, that 45% would be disproportionately likely to SUPPORT Labour. Tories would ALL have been NO voters in any case.

    All he needs to do is NOT mention it, they WON the referendum, they need to get over it.

    He, like leaders before him, seem obsesses with it and obsessed with alienating their own supporters. Maybe he doesn’t WANT power??

  73. Wullie says:

    The English are the many. The Scots are the few. Unionist parties in Scotland, they stand for England.

  74. Hamish100 says:

    Robert Kerr are you posting from the equator? Hold on!

    Ps are you any relation to the other Kerr’s that discgrace your guid name? If so keeping heading south. I’ve an iPad and can turn you the right way up.

  75. Macbeda says:

    A really happy clappy bunch.

    Where is Richard Leonard.

    I am he, brave Dick,Head of British Labour in Scotland (sub office). What’s a reserved thingy?

  76. Thepnr says:

    @Daisy Walker

    The whole point of the SNP is to make this country Independent and then the people of Scotland can have their say alone without influence from any other country as to whether they want to be a member of the EU or not.

    I like a lot of the stuff Kirsty Hughes has written on the EU and Scotland’s relationship with it but her view now is just wrong, It is NOT for the SNP to bail out Westminster from their incompetence and come to the rescue of the UK.

    Scotland’s position couldn’t be clearer, we voted remain by a very large margin and all another vote here would do is likely show that margin to have increased. No, we already know where we stand and if there is to be any second vote then it must be on the question of Independence first.

    Any vote by Scotland on EU membership is for another day.

  77. Craig says:

    ahundredthidiot says:
    24 September, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    “Anyone under the age of 50 in Scotland ever voted Labour is a mug in my book.

    Either that, or never had a hard day in their life.

    Now, I could say better late than never, but then I think of ’79 and ’14 and can’t help but feel the same mugs will be split down the middle again when Indyref2 comes.”

    Excuse me Pal, who are you calling a mug? I’m sorry that I didn’t understand when I was 18 that Labour were a bunch of devious bastards, I never understood about the vote in 79′ I was only 6 years old, I was led to believe that only voting LABOUR would end a tory government, I never had access to the internet in those days nor did anyone else come to think of it, we believe what we were told.

    I am just thankful that my eyes were opened during 2014 and finding this website and I was horrified and a little hurt at being taken for granted in a political party that I believed would stand up for me.

    2015 was the first time I ever voted for the SNP and I will continue to do so until we get independence and then I will look at what political party manifesto will attract my attention and vote for them in an Independent Scotland.

    So forgive me when I say “FUCK YOU”, I am not a mug and never have been and also I have worked bloody hard all my life, even taken pay cuts to stay in a job that I do.

  78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    sandy @ 17:24,

    He had already left.

    (In the case of NorthBritLab, it was about 15 years ago, it’s just that they haven’t noticed yet.)

  79. Thepnr says:

    May has said that she will publish her proposals for solving the NI border problem soon and if this article in the Guardian is to be believed than they are lunacy.

    Basically the backstop will only come into force if the NI assembly agree that it can by a vote in Stormont who will have a final veto.

    That’s the assembly that hasn’t sat for 20 months because the DUP and Sinn Fein can’t agree on anything. This then is the basis of May’s plan, dissolve the UK from any responsibility for the problem of the Northern Irish border.

    What might be even worse is that she can possibly believe that this would be an acceptable solution to either the Republic of Ireland or the EU. She needs some new advisers.

    The mad Tories, deranged and delusional as ever I’m afraid.

  80. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Wullie @ 18:47,

    Oh, that’s a nifty one. Definitely to be reused!

  81. ScotsRenewables says:

    “Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard “fully intends” to be Scotland’s next first minister, he has told the party’s UK conference in Liverpool.”

    He’s a card, isn’t he?

  82. Petra says:

    The post I made ages ago still hasn’t appeared. Short and sweet with no r*pe words contained therein etc. Just a YouTube link to Leonard making his Conference, “I’ll be the next FM” speech. If anyone is interested, check out YouTube.

  83. Truth says:

    Never mind that, just what is this Scottish Labour he is the leader of?

    So far as I understand there is only the British Labour party. A Scottish party would be a step in the right direction, but then it couldn’t make an appearance at the British conference, now could it?

  84. sandy says:

    Thepnr 6.54pm

    Absolutely, yes, very much absolutely.

  85. starlaw says:

    The whole jing bang of them look as if they wished they had stayed at home.

  86. Ghillie says:

    No disrespect to the good folk attending, but will many of them be at all aware of WHO is the ‘leader’ of Labour in Scotland ? (would they care?)

    Are they aware that there IS a Labour in Scotland division? And do they care?

    Jings. They are glum.

  87. stewartb says:

    O/T At a time of looming UK crisis over Brexit, Labour opts to table a conference motion that seems based on ‘triangulation’ to further their prospect for acquiring power – no clarity over preferred outcomes, no leadership, no statesmanship, no stepping up to address real UK national need. Just more fudge and party self-interest.

    And when will the Shadow Chancellor tell us what the difference is between “A'” customs union that he seems to want and “The” Customs Union that he won’t commit to? He wants a GE to offer us what on Europe? Yet another Brexit ‘pig in a poke’!

  88. galamcennalath says:

    ” Labour has morphed into a political version of The Moonies, a cult or a movement, possibly unelectable, with no coherent alternative strategy on how to address Brexit. “

    It never fails to amaze me how knowledgeable, accurate, and factual the Irish media appears to be. Puts UK trash o shame.

  89. Hamish100 says:

    End of the One Show on Bbc1 – on the tv screen in the studio is Ruth Davidson. What the shit is going on BBC.

  90. Robert Peffers says:

    @Independent Woman says: 24 September, 2018 at 3:27 pm:

    ” … I simply do not know how to describe them or how to refer to them.”

    Well, Independent Woman, you have several accurate descriptions to choose from.

    a – The Westminster Establishment Red Accountancy Unit.
    b – The Unionist Labour Accountancy Unit.
    c – The SNP BAAAAD! London Labour accountancy Unit.
    d – Ach! No thae bliddy unionists again unit.

  91. Ghillie says:

    Craig @ 6.55 pm =)

    ahundredthidiot’s comment was not helpful or typical.

    Your comment was 🙂

  92. Meg merrilees says:

    Not so long ago, there was an article in The Times around the time that William and Catherine were getting the rights of heredity changed in case their first child was a girl. It was pointed out that such a daughter, if born could become Queen – so long as she wasn’t Catholic or married to a Catholic – so that bit is still law. I’m sure the DUP approve of that anomaly.

    The Times article pointed out that there currently, about 3,000 people who have more right to the throne of England than the current incumbent but who are excluded owing to their Catholic religion.

    The link below is the biography of the Duchessa Maria Fitz-James of Spain or to be precise:

    María del Rosario Cayetana Paloma Alfonsa Victoria Eugenia Fernanda Teresa Francisca de Paula Lourdes Antonia Josefa Fausta Rita Castor Dorotea Santa Esperanza Fitz-James Stuart, Silva, Falcó y Gurtubay, 18th Duchess of Alba, GE, OIC, OSH, DOA, OAX, OSG, OPC (28 March 1926 – 20 November 2014), was head of the House of Alba and the third woman to hold the dukedom of Alba in her own right.

    She apparently held more titles than any other aristocrat alive and had they met, Queen Elizabeth – the current Queen would have had to curtsey to her.

    The Duchessa died very recently, a direct descendant paternally from James ll. Her previous two husbands had predeceased her and she wanted to marry a civil servant for her third marriage, aged 84 – which her children and King Juan Carlos opposed SO – she gave away her wealth and gave her children their inheritance – several castles- and got married.

    It’s worth looking at the Wiki article because it shows her AMAZING coat of arms which includes the Lion Rampant and a list of the 45 + titles she held.
    It seems that she was also linked with the Spencer family and when William ascends the English throne it will consolidate the familial claim the the throne of the England.

    Curiously, if I remember correctly, Duke and Duchess of Alba was a title ‘they’ mentioned for Harry and Meghan along with the Duke of Cumberland….,_18th_Duchess_of_Alba

  93. jfngw says:

    Oh look Ruth Davidson is back on BBC One tomorrow night (The One Show), no doubt another bit of self publicity, probably promoting a book. Has she no day job to do.

    The BBC, the PR arm of the Tory party, she must be catching up with Farage for appearances now. How they adore her in London, some actually believe she won an election in Scotland.

    What are they going to do when the tide turns for her in elections, although Labour are doing their best to make her the only SNP alternative. Escape route would be the best for her before she is rumbled, remember Tories give losers pretty short thrift.

  94. Robert Peffers says:

    Had to laugh at the banner that said, “Building Britain for the many, not the few.”

    Seems they didn’t have enough space left on the banner for the last bit, “Except for voters in Scotland who have their own buildings”.

  95. Meg merrilees says:


    (T)Ruthless has just brought out a book about ‘powerful woman’ so she is doing the rounds as do other authors publicising their books – but this is the leader of the Scottish Conservative Party who has said she will not give any interviews. Maybe there are two of them – identical twins and the real Ruth is in hiding as usual.

    She was on Woman’s Hour this morning and is apparently speaking at an event for ‘the Spectator’.

    The baby is due in 5 weeks and 3 days – so there won’t be a GE that day.

  96. Meg merrilees says:

    I read that the Tory MSP accused of sexual harassment has been ‘cleared’ following a Tory Party investigation.

    Doesn’t the ‘Scottish Government’ have a system whereby they have to investigate such claims using the new system put in place in January this year?

    Or is that just for SNP MSP’s and retired members?

  97. TheBuchanLoony says:

    There is NO ‘Irish Border’ problem! The problem is the BRITISH BORDER in Ireland!…it was Westminster that partitioned the island of Ireland!!

  98. susan says:

    Personally I despise Ruth Davidson and all she stands for. That the BBC whitewashes her just shows how corrupt it is.

  99. PacMan says:

    Gary say 24 September, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    He, like leaders before him, seem obsesses with it and obsessed with alienating their own supporters. Maybe he doesn’t WANT power??

    Imagine a hypothetical situation where Labour gains enough trust with the Scottish electorate that they win enough seats to form a minority government in Holyrood. They then with a good working relationship with the UK government that benefits Scotland. It would be conceivable that they gradually could devolve powers that both benefits Scotland and the rUK.

    In that scenario, it could be possible to build up enough trust in the Westminster system that would erode support for independence and in time bring it down to pre-referendum levels and take it off the political agenda.

    That can only work with Labour in power in Westminster and being receptive to Scottish needs rather than having to deal with the right wing little Englander press.

    You could argue that a Tory Westminster/Labour Holyrood could work together to keep independence at bay but is the Tories really going to let Labour take all the glory in Scotland and show the rUK that an alternative to Tory rule is possible?

    It isn’t work and I suspect Labour in Scotland feel the same. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me that they don’t have enough confidence in Labour getting elected in Westminster to risk putting their heads above the parapet by making a serious challenge to gain power in Holyrood.

  100. ronnie anderson says:

    Dicky the branch shop stewart hasn’t moved very far in life he’s still stewarding ah branch .

  101. Thepnr says:

    The Independence cause has already won over half of the old Labour vote in Scotland and that vote has in the main transferred to the SNP seeing as they are the most direct route to Scotland becoming an Independent country and lead us to be finally free of Westminster rule.

    That transfer of support from Labour in Scotland to support for the SNP hasn’t ended yet and it is this vote that will get Yes over the line in the next referendum in my opinion.

    EX-Labour supporters like Craig (above) and myself, who first voted SNP in 2015 were just the start and I could name many other regular posters on here who were also Labour at one time or another. Lets face it where else could the landslide for SNP come from in the 2015 General Election?

    It’s important then that we all remember there are no political parties when it comes to Independence only Independence supporters.

    If you haven’t watched the video I posted earlier from Allan Grogan who started the group “Labour for Independence” yet, well it is worth watching before sitting in judgement.

    Especially considering how long ago it was made which was back in 2012, he was ahead of many commentators and other political pundits then when he stated:

    “The Yes campaign reflects a rainbow of political opinion united in one common goal. We recognise that the interests of the Scottish people come before any political party.

    We only have an interest in representing what is right for Scotland, this takes precedence over any political institution or group, but all pro-independence parties must set out their vision for Scotland post 2014.”

    I found myself agreeing with that view back then and still do today. This is why I voted Yes then and will do so next time.

  102. Dr Jim says:

    Ruth Davidson wants to be Scotlands next FM, Richard Thingy Bouncy man wants to be Scotlands next FM and they share the same policy, they agree on the same thing and it’s No more democracy for Scotland, see I think that’s going to be a difficult policy to sell this time round

    Do they call it *Better together apart from the EU* now or *Separate from the EU but closely better aligned to the EU*
    How about *Better frictionless togetherness* My personal favourite has to be *Better because we say so shut up Scotland*

    Richard Bouncy Thingy ex pupil of Plockinton private education school at 10k per term then Stirling University where he benefitted from free education because of the SNP government he wants to overthrow says he wants to get rid of the class system, so that’ll be why he clings on to his quaint accent of the North of England to fool us all he’s only ordinary

    Trouble with claims of past lives when you’re a politician is The Internet and it tells us everything we need to know about someone who’s been a Labour man all his life but couldn’t manage to be a MP which in British Nationalst world is failure when all you can achieve is a hidey hole soft job for life as a Union something or other only to then enter the Scottish parliament on the list claiming you’re good enough to be FM the minute you’re in on the list

    Richard Thingy’s appointment to this weeks Labour branch manager would mostly go unnoticed normally but this guy’s appointment smacked of something different the moment he appeared because he’s a Germy Corbyn plant man and he’s perfect for the job, if the job was in the 1960s that is before most of Scotland read something other than the Daily Record

    The prospect of a wee crowd at a conference has gone to his pigeon loft and driven him crazed with powerlessness to the point where he might actually believe his own mouth and I look forward with glee at the prospect of his ultimate verbal destruction by a real politician who’s been working in Scotland for Scotland for the last thirty years, Nicola Sturgeon

    Take him apart boss but in public where it smarts

  103. twathater says:

    @Sandy 5.32pm

    re cardboard cut outs , for all the good liebour do for Scotland we’d be as well having cardboard cut outs it would cost us less in wages and it would have the benefit of not having to listen to their constant lies and bulls**t

  104. twathater says:

    @thepnr 6.54pm
    I totally agree with you , I posted on a previous thread the same sentiments , Nicola and the SG have been ignored , denigrated , marginalised and ridiculed over their sensible proposals , why now should they even attempt to RESCUE these REPREHENSIBLE self serving imbeciles .

    England voted for brexshit FFS let them get on with it ,we are not their carers , and even if Nicola tried again to intervene would they listen , NO , they would increase the rhetoric , and the slavverers and brit nat abusers would ramp up their vileness

    I agree Kirsty Hughes posts good info re brexshit but on this occasion Kirsty you are WRONG keep yer nose oot

  105. Andy Smith says:

    Third picture from bottom…Kenneth williams…’nuff said !

  106. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s the Catholic guy, 4th picture down, the one on the left.

  107. Rock says:

    Mark my words – Nicola will not dare call an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed and Scotland is at the mercy of Westminster.

    To the EU, Scotland will have the same status as Catalonia.

    The EU didn’t quite rush to defend Catalonia did it?

    Challenge to the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here:

    Does a single one of you have the guts to go on the record and state that there will definitely be an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed?

    Robert Peffers?

    Liz g?



    Dave McEwan Hill?



    Brian Doonthetoon?

    No guts no independence.

  108. CameronB Brodie says:

    From a realist perspective, Scotland is not responsible for England. However….

    Realist political economy


    Realist political economy rests upon three foundations: the state, pursuing the national interest, in an environment defined by anarchy. Each of these three attributes distinguishes realism from other approaches to the study of the politics of international economic relations, such as liberalism and varieties of Marxism (cf. Gilpin 1975b: 37–60). These attributes are interrelated. Realists see an autonomous state—that is, a state that is neither the sum of individual interests à la liberalism nor the implicit or explicit representative of certain privileged interests within society anticipated by Marxism. And that state pursues the national interest—which, again, is distinct from a pluralist vision that derives the national interest from the summation of individual interests, or from the radical charge that the national interest is a cloak for the advancement of particular interests (cf. Morgenthau 1951; Kennan 1951; Krasner 1978).

    Realism, sovereignty and international relations: An examination of power politics in the age of globalization


  109. yesindyref2 says:

    “Having a wonderful time, wish you were here. Wish I wasn’t. Yours, Jeremy”.

  110. Meg merrilees says:

    Apologies – just realised I posted on the wrong thread at 7.45 pm.

    Aye – Dr Jim, we just need Wee Willie Rennie to pop up and say that he want’s to be the next First Minister of Scotland .
    Do you think they’ve been watching a showing of the life and death of Spartacus?

  111. yesindyref2 says:

    @Meg merrilees
    That new system’s just for Ministers and ex ones.

  112. yesindyref2 says:

    When the clock strikes twelve we’ll cool off then
    Start rockin’ ’round the clock again.
    We’re gonna rock around the clock tonight
    We’re gonna rock, rock, rock, ’till broad daylight
    We’re gonna rock around the clock tonight.

    Yay, let’s party!

  113. crazycat says:

    @ Meg merrilees at 7.45

    The Wikipedia article you linked to contains this:

    Via her descent from James FitzJames, she was King James II of England’s senior illegitimate-line descendant

    (my italics)

    I’m a republican, and I object to hereditary titles on principle, but I suspect that the illegitimate / out of wedlock / wrong side of the blanket / whatever you want to call it aspect is at least as much of an impediment to succession as which foot they dig with.

  114. Cubby says:

    Rock on

    I have already had the guts to forecast that a boring boring Britnat like you will keep on posting your boring same old crap until the end of the Universe. As you are clearly a bot that is stuck in a loop for infinity.

  115. Glamaig says:

    OMG that must be the quickest enquiry into sexual harassment ever.

    Tory Inquiry: Well Miles did you do it?
    Miles Briggs: No
    Tory Inquiry: ok then, you’re cleared

    Still, it’ll be all over the front pages for weeks with leaks and tittle tattle wont it? No?

  116. ahundredthidiot says:

    Craig @6:55

    ‘….i was only six in ’79’

    so what? I was 7. Whats your point? Maybe read your own post again ‘believe what I am told, blah blah’

    Maybe you should stop and ask yourself what else it is that you are missing.

  117. ahundredthidiot says:

    I will concede that Ghillie is right though -my comment isn’t helpful or typical.

    Still bloody true though.

  118. jfngw says:

    Bloody hell, not only do Labour want to deny my democratic right, they now also want to kill me off. Although at my age it would be classed as euthanasia.

    Labour chairman Ian Lavery: “We need to kill off the nationalists in Scotland and regain that great country.”

    Are they going to introduce a true Brit test, or a red shirt youth movement. Who knows!

  119. Meg merrilees says:


    Illigitimacy didn’t prevent the title passing to Elizabeth (1st) who was the illegitimate child of Henry Vlll and Anne Boleyn.

    It was question of allowing Protestantism to continue – started by Henry so he could marry another woman and obtain an heir.

    Upon Henry’s death the order of succession was decided as Edward, Mary (Catholic), Elizabeth and then it was to pass to any issue of Henry’s younger sister Mary. Again, this was done to ensure that Margaret Tudor/Stuart’s issue (still Catholic) would not inherit the throne. A situation confounded shortly after by James Stuart, Vl and l who would assume the title in due course.

    Considering all this palaver in the 1500’s to allow Henry to remarry, I found it quite ridiculous that the Establishment had a problem with Edward and Wallis and Charles and Camilla -you could argue that part of the reason the Anglican faith is the Established faith is so that the current king, back in the day, could get married to the woman he fancied and ‘disobeyed’ Rome.

    Heigh ho!

    It’s a good game but only a few are allowed to play

  120. Petra says:

    Looks as though British Nationalists have a better chance of getting their comments posted on here, than genuine Independence supporters. Three of my posts haven’t appeared tonight, two of which included a YouTube link to Leonard’s speech (under another name). Giving up now.

  121. Thepnr says:


    That cry from the Labour chairman to “kill off the nationalists in Scotland” is exactly what I expect will kill off the last remaining support for the Labour party in Scotland.

    It’s like watching an elephant stuck in quicksand, slowly sinking while still roaring, but there’s nothing anyone can do to save it and it has to be left to it’s grim fate.

  122. Meg merrilees says:


    Yes i thought it was surprisingly quick considering the police are apparently looking at alex Salmond’s behaviour over an extra 20 months. Ah! but they want him out of the way if there is going to be a G Elecetion whereas we need all the tory MSP’s we can get so maybe that’s why they dealt with this really, really quickly. I mean, just because it was quick can’t mean that it wasn’t thorough, can it?

    Here’s a section of the BBC article:

    Mr Briggs said: “I would like to put it on record that I believe it is vital for women and men to bring forward complaints of harassment, and for those complaints to be considered with care and confidentiality. I believe the party has done that in this case.
    “The last two months have been a living hell for me and my family as I have had to face this false allegation of sexual harassment made against me.
    “Damage has clearly been done to my character, especially among those who don’t know me, and I hope I have the chance to address that in the coming weeks and months.”
    ‘Significant concerns’
    After the complainer described the hearing process as “terrible”, Rape Crisis Scotland voiced “significant concerns” with how the probe was conducted.
    The group said the process involved was “intimidating and inappropriate” for the woman making the complaint, and that they had advised her not to attend the hearing.
    In a statement posted on Twitter, they said: “We made repeated attempts to ask the Scottish Conservatives to amend their procedure or provide any reassurance that might enable her to attend the hearing. They would not even tell us if the investigating committee had received training in investigating sexual harassment complaints.
    “In our view the Scottish Conservatives need to urgently change their approach to investigating sexual harassment complaints.
    “This is not about party politics, it’s about ensuring that anyone experiencing sexual harassment feels able to come forward and expect fair treatment if they do.”
    Ms Davidson said in her own Twitter statement that she had “confidence in the robustness of the disciplinary process the party has put in place” and said she would “stand by the thoroughness of its impartiality”.

    NB to readers: (t)Ruthless on a previous occasion also said on TV that the tory Councillors accused of racist, sectarian behaviour had attended training with ‘Nil by Mouth’ and it is unclear if they had.

  123. jfngw says:

    Nationalists beware on the 6th Oct, the forces of Labour British nationalism may try to take us on the South Bridge. They have made the declaration to kill us off. I suspect they may make their stand outside the old North British hotel as a symbolic gesture. They will be easy to spot carrying the the Broon Rampant associated with their cry of ‘North British Always’. Good luck to our brave warriors!

  124. Legerwood says:

    I watched Channel 4 news tonight and it’s report from the Labour Party Conference.

    But I still have no idea what the Labour Party’s position on Brexit and another referendum on it actually is. What came across most strongly was that none of the people who were interviewed could explain it, describe it or in any way talk any sense on the subject.

    Their big idea seems to be to have a General Election which they will win and then they will negotiate a better deal!!!

    Has anyone told those idiots that the clock has already struck 11 ? Article 50 has been triggered. UK leaves March 2019 and a GE, under those circumstances is totally irrelevant.

    One of the Labour politicians actually argued that holding a GE would be better than a referendum in terms of getting an indication of how people feel about Brexit.

    Heaven help us.

  125. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Labour chairman Ian Lavery: “We need to kill off the nationalists in Scotland and regain that great country.” @jfngw says at 10:02 pm

    Have you got a link?

    That’s the language of Rwanda’s Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (RTLM) radio station credited with having played a crucial role in creating the atmosphere of charged racial hostility that allowed the genocide of 1994 to occur.

    Worryingly Radio Shortbreid appear to be slowly going down the RTLM route.

  126. galamcennalath says:

    jfngw says:

    Labour … “We need to kill off the nationalists in Scotland …”

    That would be nationalists like Davidson, Mundell, Carlaw, Fraser, et al? 🙂

  127. CameronB Brodie says:

    Did you delete all charters before the www on the youtube links? You have to do that before posting, so the link is accepted by wordpress.

  128. Jock McDonnell says:


    Glad you are onboard too.

    Was a SLAB voter myself many years ago, used to watch the conference, Question Time etc & actually believed Dewar, Cook, Broon, whoever.
    Eventually I realised it was just hot air. Their relationship with the Tories was just a game. As many on here before have said, there is only one British party but it has many faces of deceit.

  129. The bald guy looks delighted to be seated beside sectarian bigot Andy Kerr.

  130. Capella says:

    As I was going up the stair
    I met a man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    How I wish he’d go away.

    An early poem predicting the coming of Richard the Leonard.

  131. Thepnr says:


    Try posting the link without any comment at all, remembering to leave off everything before the www part and see if that works. I’ve had the odd hiccup myself recently too so I don’t think it’s just you.

  132. jfngw says:

    @Jockanese Wind Talker

    I’ve taken it from the Kevin Schofield twitter feed. He does not link to any recorded material. I wouldn’t take it too literally, it’s just something else to laugh about Labour with. They actually believe we support independence because of the SNP rather than the opposite being the case.

  133. Hamish100 says:


    I am on rock’s hit list. Fame at last. Must be getting under your skin. Good

    Answer Yes.

    But it doesn’t matter either way for me as the The First Minister will make her own mind up. She has the info. Important thing is to win- whenever that is.
    Are you a Sunday National Reader yet. Go on the record.

  134. Iain mhor says:

    @Meg Merrilees 7:45pm
    Very interesting Ta.

    I have to say though, I read the last sentence as Duke of Cumbernauld. So disappointed.
    If there is a Chooky Rossy surely, surely we can have a “Chooky Whits He Called?” Cumbernauld deserves a Duke and I’d vote for one. Especially if he got a later licence for the Twa Corbies.
    Oh wait…you dinnae get tae vote fur Dukes.
    ‘The Lady of the Luggie, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, holds aloft a shopping trolley..’ Or something.

  135. Dr Jim says:

    Scotland is not an country and no more important than Lincolnshire!
    There’s a possible election coming up, Ooops Scotland is a great country!
    Let’s kill off the Nationalists! Ooops that’s more than half the population! Eh Federalism more powers, Ooops we voted against that remember, Fukc it Genocide then, let’s really kill them

    They can’t even be decisive about what kind of indecision to adopt

    Did you know Richard “bouncy” Thingy guy had a pony when he was young, that’s why he jumps up and down when he talks, he still thinks he’s on his pony

  136. Legerwood says:

    Meg merilees @ 10.16pm
    “”Again, this was done to ensure that Margaret Tudor/Stuart’s issue (still Catholic) would not inherit the throne. A situation confounded shortly after by James Stuart, Vl and l who would assume the title in due course””
    James VI and I was a Protestant.

    His mother, Mary, Queen of Scots, was a Catholic but she died (beheaded on the orders of Elizabeth) but Mary’s son James VI was brought up as a protestant.

    His tutor George Buchanan was at one time Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and one of the few to hold the post who was not a minister in the Church of Scotland.

    Elizabeth I was born after Henry married Anne Bolyn so she was the legitimate daughter of Henry VIII but after Henry had the marriage annulled Elizabeth was declared illegitimate just as her half-sister had been when Henry got his marriage to Mary’s mother Kathryn of Aragon annulled.

  137. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Slippery slope when they start using language like that @jfngw

    Especially given the “Ulsterisation of Scottish Politics” that BritNat Journalists we’re pushing.

    Verifiable video of conference speech showing Lavery saying this would be another example of what BritNat Labour thinks of the Scottish Electorate and help convert more Soft NOs and Labour voters.

    Imagine the outcry if that statement was made about Sein Féin votes in Northern Ireland but ‘cos it’s aimed at us Scots it is OK as opposed to incitement to racial hatred?

  138. Hamish100 says:

    The Labour Chair ian lavery want’s to bury us.

    Be worried — he has a HNC in Mining.
    Mind you a quick trawl of wikipedia shows he has a bit of a chequered history over money.
    ” In March and April 2016 The Sunday Times and BBC Newsnight reported that it appeared Lavery had received £72,500 from a benevolent fund set up by sick miners. [24][25]. On 19 October 2017, in an edition of Newsnight, it was reported that Lavery had received £165,000 from a 10-member trade union, the Northumberland area of the National Union of Mineworkers, of which he was formerly general secretary. Lavery has denied anything improper occurred.”

    Looks like another pretendy socialist of the labour party from “The North”.

  139. Jamie says:

    Sixth from the top (clapping with an embarrassed looking girl next to him) I’m pretty sure is Gerard Killen. MP for Rutherglen South I believe and low order arsepiece. I was shagging his pal for a while but he unfriended me on FB after I called him a loyalist bastard. He’s a slippery shite so I’m sure he’ll be loading himself into the gatling gun of labour leader candidates soon enough.

  140. Liz g says:

    Rock @cause it might be his birthday…
    Why have you changed your position??
    You used to say that there would be no referendum for 600+ years.
    Now you say it will be 600+ years IF “they” shut down Wings!!
    Why the shift??
    If you answer that in the next 6 hours..Exactly…
    Quid Pro Quo
    I’ll answer your question …but only that question, don’t ever forget I don’t get Gaslighted:

    Challenge Extended?

  141. Meg merrilees says:

    Ian Mhor

    Do you remember recently that a butcher in Manchester brought out his version of the square sausage made from pork, chilli etc. you name it and I think it was on this forum that it was decided a Scots butcher should bring out a version of the ‘Cumbernauld’ Sausage just to match them.

  142. Henry Fraser says:

    Hi Stu. I’ve been wading through the conference on bbciplayer and was struggling to find Leonard’s speech too.Then thought, ah Wings will have it! Shame to think that one of the best stand up gigs of all time hasnae been recorded for posterity.

  143. Greannach says:

    My favourites are where he’s disguised as Rick Wakeman then as a late middle-aged lady at the end chewing a caramel.
    It’s a great way to liven up a dreary meeting and at the same time rehearse for Halloween which is on next month.

  144. Meg merrilees says:


    Sorry – my writing was unclear – I meant the attempt to keep the Stuarts off the throne was confounded NOT that religion flipped back to Catholicism as you rightly point out.

    And, of course, Anne and Henry were married before Elizabeth was born but nonetheless she was declared illegitimate a status which could have prevented her from taking the throne had there been another option available.

    How history might have changed – no Union of Crowns, no Treaty of Union… dream on!

  145. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Around 100 years ago independence parties swept to a huge victory in Ireland on an independence ticket. This was a direct result of the rebellion in 1916 – the Easter Rising. Edinburgh born James Connolly, a founder member of the Scottish Socialist Federation with Keir Hardie, marched the Irish Labour Party (at that point a division of the UK Labour Party)into the GPO in Dublin. He was out of the same broad nationalist and socialist movement that gave us not only Keir Hardie but also John MacLean, Jimmy Maxton and the ILP and in ex Labour MP R B Cunninghame Graham the first president of the newly formed SNP in 1934.
    And then you look at the Labour Party in Scotland today!

    24th Sept. 2018
    01369 700132

  146. Liz g says:

    Meg Merrilees @ 11.43
    Well…. Had Mary Stuart had a son to her husband, the King of France, history would also have been Very difffrent…
    It’s worth a thought… Eh??

  147. Albert Herring says:

    Aye, but where’s Juan Kerr?… oh wait…

    Whit a Kerr-fuffle!

  148. Petra says:

    @ Henry Frazer at 11:34pm …. “Struggling to find Leonard’s speech…”

    Henry it’s on YT under the title of, “John Healeys speech at the Labour Conference.”

    Leonard incognito by the looks of it.

    I’ve tried to post it on here twice already to no avail. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

  149. Cubby says:

    No Harry Kane in the FIFA team of the year awards. No British player at all. Boo hoo – tears all round.

    Johnny Foreigner picking on good old Blighty again. It is obvious Kane should be in the team he is world class ( the BBC told us he was, it must be true) and better still he is English.

    It’s a scandal. People from Portugal and even Argentina getting picked ahead of our Harry. But worse of all a French kid with a funny name beating our Harry. The EU taking revenge again.

    We need a people’s vote on this disgraceful result.

  150. Chick McGregor says:


    I wonder if anyone has informed the Labour chairman that there is an unused bayonet kicking around somewhere up here which he might be able to use?

    As for Leonard, if he came out in the skinny with a cowboy hat and guitar and sang ‘Sweet Home Albiona’ he might have made more of an impact.

  151. Chick McGregor says:


    Damn disgrace re Harry Kane. The should instigate a Golden Penalty Spot award, forthwith.

  152. yesindyref2 says:

    Perhaps FIFA thought Kane wasn’t Abel.

  153. galamcennalath says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:

    independence parties swept to a huge victory in Ireland on an independence ticket.

    Only in a First Past The Post sense. Sinn Féin won a landslide in seats, but only with 47% of votes cast across Ireland. Apparently they were unopposed in some seats in the south.

    You are correct that Sinn Féin came into politics post 1916. Prior to this (southern) Irish politics was dominated by the Parliamentary Party who wanted Home Rule. The 1914 Irish (and Scottish) Home Rule Bills seemed to offer devolution no greater than Scotland currently has.

    Sinn Féin stood on a full Republic ticket. However they only achieved dominion status through the Irish Free State. A majority of members voted for the Treat, a minority wanted to hold out for a Republic and thus began the Civil War.

    In that 1918 GE probably (because of the unopposed seats) a majority across Ireland wanted independence, but only a small one. Across what was to become the Irish Free State it was obviously higher. But not massive.

    It is one of those state creation myths that Ireland overwhelmingly wanted independence, because of FPTP.,_1918

  154. sandy says:

    Rock @ 9.17pm

    That’s it, Rock. Go for it. Try & knock (T)ruthie & Len somebody-or-other out of the running & become FM.
    You appear to have all the answers.

    Mental health seems to be all the rage at the moment. Suggest you make use of the facilities. However, with your odious outrageous rantings, there is a strong possibility you may be sectioned.

    Normality to return to WOS.

  155. Cubby says:

    Chick Mcgregor – nice one.

    Yesindyref2 – sorry yellow card for that one.

  156. Chick McGregor says:


    I suspect they just don’t give Adam.

  157. Cubby says:

    Chick Mcgregor you have lost the plot with the A dam comment – red card.

  158. sandy says:

    Labour chair, Ian Lavery. Lavatory?
    Well I find it amusing, especially after all the shit he’s apparently been up to, utilising union funds which have been flushed away.

  159. Liz g says:

    Sandy & 1.04
    Rock is probably a narcissist and there is no help fur it..
    Wee shame really.. bit whit can ye dae?..Except be yer self??
    To the last few posters!!
    Who is this
    Kane,person ….
    Is this a football thing?
    And to Rock
    You have not been quite so keen to post for a wee while now…while I still think you are a narcissist,I do think you are a human being… So..don’t think you can be Gaslighting me now.. But, can I just ask??
    Are you ok?

  160. sandy says:

    Rock is not answering. May be they’ve put the straight jacket on.

  161. r.esquierdo says:

    I never listen or watch anybody from the Labour party. In Scotland they have betrayed the Scottish people

  162. susan says:

    Labour are showing their true colours; just another colonialist party. Anyway Labour can’t let Scotland go as it needs our resources to fund its grandiose plans.

  163. Petra says:

    ‘Nicola Sturgeon warns Richard Leonard ruling out indyref2 will leave Scottish Labour ‘alienated’.’

  164. Petra says:

    I don’t get it. I posted the Wee Ginger Dug ”trying to kill us” article earlier this morning along with the Leonard speech (again – 4 times now). This was before I posted the National link.

    For some reason or another they are not appearing on here. I wonder why?

    The Leonard speech is under the name of Healey, online. Anyone else on here fancy trying to post it?

  165. stewart fae stoney says:

    I can see a sectarian bigot, rick Wakeman and alot od glum looking people but cant find wally

  166. Collie says:

    Ian Lavery on the bbc parliament channel now.

  167. yesindyref2 says:

    I know, I gave away a penalty and that Kane will walk up and coolly strike it into the back of the net. The EU will probably disallow it because he moved.

  168. sassenach says:

    Yes, strange, Petra,the link I posted for Dickie went through, nae bother??

  169. Phronesis says:

    The political system that denies Scotland its full economic powers, shackles Scotland to destructive austerity measures, has repeatedly interfered with its constitutional and societal progress to limit Scotland’s potential and place in the international community should be killed off. That is how we regain our great country.

    ‘Determinants and outcomes where the contribution of austerity and welfare reform was associated with adverse consequences for health include: earnings and incomes, child poverty, working-age mortality from ischaemic heart disease and alcohol, and possible mental health problems …
    Austerity and welfare reform in Scotland, especially in the period 2010–2015, coincided with increased economic and health inequalities, a faltering or halt to some aspects of health which were previously improving, and some worsening trends. People at every stage of life (childhood, early adulthood, older adulthood) were hurt, with those with fewest resources to fall back on affected the most. This suggests the warnings of the public health community that welfare reform and austerity might pose a risk to health expressed over this period cannot be dismissed lightly’

  170. Petra says:

    Wee Leonard, the Corbyn lackey who appeared from nowhere, on BBC Parliament now. Repeat of his speech. ”We all need Corbyn to tackle poverty in Scotland….. inequality, bring an end to PFI, etc etc”

    God it would make you bl**dy-well laugh. They had over 60 years in power (bar a few years) in Scotland and what did they do? Hid the fact that we could have been one of the richest countries in the World, handed over 6000 sqmls of our seas, including 7 oil fields, to Westminster, England, scr*ed female workers for decades, crippled us with PFI debt and basically ran Scotland into the ground. Yeah we’re all ready to welcome them back with open arms. Jackanory.

  171. Collie says:

    Is the English Geordie MP Ian Lavery the modern day “Hammer of the Scots”?

  172. Collie says:

    There seems to be a helluva lot of Englishmen coming forward to tell us inadequate Scots what’s best for us.

    We are not worthy.

    What would we do without the leadership and guidance from our superior English cousins?

  173. Baldeagle58 says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    25 September, 2018 at 12:31 am

    Perhaps FIFA thought Kane wasn’t Abel.

    Don’t know if I should groan or laugh…….:-p
    If you’ve got a ‘day job’, don’t give it up!

  174. Marie Clark says:

    Erm, I’ll just leave this here. Just what struck me watching Richard Who. Ducks to avoid hammers.

  175. Robert Louis says:

    So now we see the true colonialist Britnat mentality of the British Labour party. A quote from Ian Lavery, a Labour MP from the North East of England is quoted as saying;

    “We need to kill off the nationalists in Scotland and regain that great country.”.

    In one sentence, we can see in clear daylight, the nasty hateful patronising colonial attitude the British Nationalist Labour party has to both Scotland and its people. Just think about, he doesn’t just want to win in Scotland he wants to kill nationalists.

    But that quote is also very telling of the mentality of British nationalist Labour towards Scotland, because he talks of Scotland as a possession, in true colonial style. I suppose he and his ilk would have been happy to say he owns ‘India and Ireland and Nigeria and so on.

    How any sane person in Scotland can still support these clowns from the British Nationalist Labour party, is beyond me.

    These are dangerous time. Extreme right wing tories want to forcibly drag Scotland out of the EU, so they can create their ‘low tax, low regulation, neoliberal, ‘mini America’ nirvana’. On the other hand we have the Labour party who want to forcibly drag Scotland out of the EU, so they can create their marxist nirvana.

    Both, in their own ways are akin to the bolsheviks. They want to jump off the EU cliff edge, to destroy the current oder, and re-make what they see as THEIR country, in their own way, either an extreme right wing neo liberal nirvana, or an extreme marxist mess.

    Both are dangerous. The left wing, if they truly know their history, should know why.

    That is why Corbyn is so desperate to drop out the EU. Despite any rhetoric from him, what he and his apparatchik McDonnel want is the hardest of brexits.

    Scotland needs out of this nonsense, BEFORE March next year, because once brexit starts, we can be sure, the rule book or ‘constitutional norms’ as they put it, will be burned. Right wing, or left wing, they both want to destroy in order to re-make. Driven by ideology above all else, common sense is not even mentioned.

  176. galamcennalath says:

    Collie says:

    Ian Lavery the modern day “Hammer of the Scots”?

    Soon, the polls will begin to show a Yes majority.

    Up till now the BritNats from anywhere in the UK have the excuse of claiming that Indy supporters are a minority of Scots causing division and disruption in the northern region of their blessed Greater England.

    When it becomes a majority then that changes. When Indy become the will of the people of Scotland, English Nationalists lose any excuse to meddle in our affairs. At that point they become imperialists with colonial desires on their neighbour.

  177. Nana says:

    My #SNP chums will be interested in Ian Lavery and his colourful Trade Union history. Up the workers eh Ian?

    Brexit: the madness of Shanker Singham

    Hard Brexiters’ new plan gets A+ for idiocy

  178. Meg merrilees says:

    Liz g.

    We better be careful or we risk giving Diana Gabaldon a new idea for a sequel to Outlander…

  179. Still Positive says:

    Morning all. I am almost finished a biography of Jimmy Reid by Kenny MacAskill which I am thoroughly enjoying.

    My very first vote in Feb 1974 was for Jimmy because the priests and ministers in the constituency reminded us the Sunday before that: “Communism is not compatible with Catholicism/Christianity.”
    I decided that nae man was telling me how to vote. I have voted SNP ever since even though it took until May 2015 to return an SNP MP.

    Re the Labour Party: Google ‘Clay Cross Councillors to see how they stabbed them in the back and broke their promises to them.

    When Jimmy joined the Labour Party in 1977, despite being high profile in the wider party, his local branch delayed a decision about his membership then rejected it. Jimmy appealed and it was referred to the constituency party and, with support of the Tribune Group, he was eventually admitted as a member. How petty is that?

    Back-stabbing barstewards then as now. They’ll never change.

  180. Ian McCubbin says:

    Maybe he was just photoed shopped in. His other right wing unionist buddies have been caught often doing that. Maybe Rich has learned something.

  181. Les Wilson says:

    The labour conference was a mass denial of labour policies across the UK. Never more so than their record over so many years in Scotland which they systematically abused, with graft of all kinds and whatever suited their Unionist agenda.

    The audacity to say they will vote against an Indy referendum is contrary to democracy, but it shows just how the Union parties across the board are behaving now,against Scotland.

    We do have a clear enemy now, there is no hiding their determination to once more crush the will of Scots. They are all english parties installed here.
    The conclusion must be that our clear enemy is the Westminster agenda, thus an english agenda to keep Scotland bound and impoverished.

    So as in times of old, it is another England v Scotland power show.This time around they know they could lose, so expect much more outrageous lies and propaganda, at even higher levels.
    Something we must prepare well for.

  182. Nana says:

    I find it quite remarkable the barrage of “UK Government in Scotland” I receive through vast expense from the public purse (all classed as Scottish spending in GERS). It has some reach. Here’s some examples: -crisis-scotland-questions-validity-of-scottish-tory-sexual-harrassment-verdict-on-its-own-msp

  183. Collie says:

    And what has happened to the peace loving, anti-Trident, CND member, Jeremy Corbyn?

    He has become everything that he has demonstrated against all his political life.

  184. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says

    ” a referendum in Northern Ireland on which customs territory people north of the border want to be part of “

    An interesting idea. Not full reunification, but a step towards it.

    The twist of obvious. What about Scotland? Why shouldn’t we get such a vote too? There would be a high probability that Scotland would opt for the EU customs zone.

    If the people of NI chose to be in the EU customs zone then that means an internal UK border if the rest isn’t in the EU zone. So, as many have said including The Rev, why not have that border between England and Scotland?

    I know it’s not Indy by any means, but it’s not some shity easily reneged upon Devo offer either. It would be binding international treaty with the EU. NI and Scotland would have to fully comply with EU standards, which is a good thing and what most folks want.

    Like everything else, the only thing stopping such an obvious and sensible plan will be English Nationalists Hell bent on retaining a grip on as much as possible.

  185. jfngw says:

    Browsing youtube and noticed that it was quite popular for artists to have different videos for the same song and label them with colours (red version, blue version). I was wondering if they came up with idea from the unionist parties, all sing the same song but just labelling with different colours.

    Will we have Brexit (blue version), Brexit (red version), it doesn’t matter because they are the same, just different dance routines on display.

  186. jfngw says:

    Was that Kate Hoey blaming the university intellectuals for the resistance to Brexit? They had better watch out then, I suppose, once politicians start down that route then removing you is usually the next step.

  187. ronnie anderson says:

    It always lands on the head of the workingman/woman ( thats the shit that is ) Leonards ah glass act we kin aw see through him .

    British Labour 1st they insult the Jewish faith , now they insult the Catholic faith , they’ll get to the Huguenots eventually .

  188. Brian Powell says:


    ” a referendum in Northern Ireland on which customs territory people north of the border want to be part of “

    Assuming Labour will be opposing that, I’m sure the media will ask them. LOLZ

  189. Fred says:

    So Kenneth Williams look-alike for Scotland’s First Minister. infamy, infamy!

  190. Fred says:

    There’s a regiment of legitimate potential candidates to the Scottish/British throne. The present usurpers don’t believe in Royalty nowadays anyhow & marry into better stock at the first opportunity. They were never noted for their brains but as the so-called royal blood is diluted so their IQ must rise!

  191. Petra says:

    Great informative links Nana. I’ve read through them all but I’m in too much of a rush to make comment on a number of them, as I’d like to do. However two stand out for me.

    “This is life and death to the people in Ireland.” Stephen Pound seems to be one of a very few politicians speaking sense here. It’s additionally concerning when we take into account that a Top Brass UK Police meeting was held last week, whereby it’s been agreed that Scottish Police will be sent to NIreland in the event of trouble.

    Then there’s the Miles Briggs story which is totally unbelievable. Is this really going on in Scotland, in Holyrood? The complainant was questioned by the alleged perpetrator? Is this the Holyrood / Scotland Office policy now? Let’s hope that this doesn’t go away. That it’s dealt with properly. And that Alex Salmond’s legal team are taking note.


    @ sassenach….. would you believe that my thank you to you, which included the Leonard link, hasn’t appeared!

  192. Collie says:

    The curse of having the largest oil and gas fields in the EU continues.

  193. Breeks says:

    Nana says:
    25 September, 2018 at 9:37 am
    Miles Briggs complainant: I’m sad and angry at process and outcome

    Scratching my head here….

    Alex Salmond is allegedly accused of doing “something” years ago, which nobody mentioned at the time, but is forced to appeal to the Court of Session about the draconian process which sees him named and shamed without knowing any details whatsoever about his accuser or what he is accused of.
    Meanwhile, a Tory is accused of sexual misconduct with “real” victims and witnesses and the matter put before a Tory Disciplinary Committee, which exonerates the accused without even taking witness statements from “Emily” and her two corroborating witness, who are even as I understand it, allowed to be cross examined before the accused himself, and leaving Rape Crisis Scotland opening criticising the disciplinary process.

    Kinda left scratching my head here. Why has Alex Salmond’s reputation been smeared the way it has and his reputation trashed, while a Tory ostensibly responsible for sexual harassment is exonerated and free to go about his business to the bewilderment and distress of the accused?

    Is it not the SAME Parliament? Why the double standards??? One rule for us, no rules at all if you’re a Tory.

  194. Dr Jim says:

    The Labour brain:

    SNP secret mind control techniques cause Labour man to be anti Catholic,
    The SNP have been exposed as being anti everybody who is non Scottish in a new document to be released by Labour
    Labour say in the document that the improvements made in Scotland by the *Nats* are a cover for their real intentions making the electorate happier with their performance in government to lull them into a false sense of security till they get Independence then the SNP will show their true colours as a racist party by only allowing white Europeans into the country and banning people of colour and Muslims plus ending the religious observational divide that has always existed in Scotland and shows Scotlands true diversity as a Nation under the umbrella of the United Kingdom

    The freedom in Scotland to insult other religions should be sacrosanct and the SNP do not respect the will of the people and if they did they would have already put into place laws to prevent these things taking place, but they don’t because they’re only interest is making people happy so they sleepwalk into Independence which would be a disaster for the United Kingdom

    This of course is a makey uppy spoof but when you read it could you believe that Labour would say something like this

    I bet you would

  195. galamcennalath says:

    The SNP have been exposed as being anti everybody who is non Scottish in a new document to be released by Labour

    It has certainly been said before now! So your spoof could be for real, right enough.

    It’s simple. Too many BritNats judge us by their own xenophobic, insular, bigoted, elitist standards. They assume we must be the same. Well, we ain’t, and that is beyond their comprehension.

  196. ronnie anderson says:

    This Miles Briggs saga should be brought to a end , r crisis Scotland supporting Emily & the farce of a Tory party investigation , where is the Police complaint ?.

  197. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    One rule for us, no rules at all if you’re a Tory.

    … the fundamentals of Tory doctrine in a nutshell.

    Feudalism is still alive and flourishing. The lairds get to do as they wish, rules and laws are for us plebs.

  198. Iain mhor says:

    @galamcennalath 9:36

    I was wondering about that. I think the implications are, that for Scotland to be in alignment and service the customs border, it would have to have the powers over the relevant areas devolved to it. Up to and including Excise & Tax of any imports/exports from Scotland, otherwise Westminster would be doing it by proxy and therefore it would be the rUK/KoE who would be in the CU not Scotland.
    It’s too fatal for the rUK/KoE though; if Scotland has that much autonomy and a border (however intangible) then Independence a-la New Zealand is inevitable. Good Lord, we’d see the receipts! We might even start collecting the revenue from oil and the duty on whisky.
    Whereas a NI border could be managed by Ireland as an EU member with NI as a de-facto principality and a sea border with GB. Yeah they’d have to suck it up, but there is no Parliament in NI so yeah. Suck it or become a Crown Protectorate.

    I’m still to be enlightened as to how IoM and the Channel islands etc have historically managed their autonomy and trade with the UK/EU/Ireland, as they are not in the EU. Whatever they have been up to, why can’t it apply to NI? The only thing I recollect is that everyone can go to Man, including EU citizens, but Manxmen don’t have freedom of movement in the EU. I’ve not had a problem shipping EU goods in/out of Man nor been asked for duty. Everything else is a bit “Tigers? In Africa? Shhh, schtum”
    Perhaps a Manxman can advise?
    Also, in all this Brexit/NI/Scotland malarkey,there’s not a single cheep about Gibralter eh? My bet’s on Spain already securing a deal for the airport and runway…

  199. Fred says:

    Cat Boyd in todays National calls for a credible socialist opposition to the SNP. Cat could do worse than get herself registered as the “Scottish Labour Party!” and build the opposition from there. The name is apparently vacant, the present user flying under false colours.

  200. Petra says:

    My post thanking you sassenach didn’t appear, as did my last post pointing out that it didn’t appear, lol. Is anyone else on here experiencing large numbers of posts just disappearing into the ether?

  201. sassenach says:

    Your ‘thanks’ to me did appear at 10-49am, saying the previous one didn’t!!

    Strange things happening to your posts, it seems. Not having any problems, here.

  202. Robert Peffers says:

    @Petra says: 25 September, 2018 at 12:41 pm:

    ” … Is anyone else on here experiencing large numbers of posts just disappearing into the ether?”

    Not large numbers but occasional comments just never appearing and also just vanishing as I’m still typing them and the unfinished parts then never showing up.

    I’ve intensively checked for any kind of interference from virus or other things but nothing has shown up. It might be a Windows 10 glitch or the Microsoft Edge Browser but I use both IE and Edge so is hard to track down.

  203. orri says:

    Would all those going on about hereditary and monarch take a step back and think for a minute about what they’re saying.

    Since the Declaration of Arbroath, at least and probably long before then, we in Scotland reserve the right to pick our monarch.

    A fact that allowed Edward the 1st a foothold in Scotland when the great and good of Scotland couldn’t decide so let him put a place man on our throne.

    Charles the 2nd was first put on Scotland’s throne only to be forcibly rejected by Cromwell. As soon as the later was out the picture he ascended to that of England.

    The question then is when have we in Scotland had a monarch not of the choosing of those in Scotland.

    The whole point of the writing out of Scotland and Scots on the parliamentary side in the ’45 is to imply that Scotland as a whole was subjugated and brought under English rule. It’s a dangerous thing to allow them to get away with.

    Also remember re-Cromwell. All those who rub there hands in glee and adulate him really need to remember his rule ended in a military dictatorship.

  204. orri says:

    The problem with a credible socialist opposition to the SNP is so many genuine socialists have joined the SNP and guide it’s policies that Labour are left with idealogues who spout “For the Many not the Few” without realising that to a UK party we in Scotland may very well be in that later category.

    Socialism is, or should, be for everyone. It’s concepts should be based on the idea of society.

  205. Fred says:

    @ orri, this is the Cat Boyd who admitted on Question Time that she never bothered her arse voting in the Brexit referendum!

    Anent the Lord Protector, things in Scotland settled down after his troops stormed Dundee & massacred the population, worse than Drogheda but Dundee is never mentioned. Charles II was the last monarch to wear the Scottish regalia.

  206. orri says:

    Yep, subtle hints from Darling paraphrasing Cromwell with “think that you may be wrong” didn’t lead me to think he meant actual military intervention should scots vote for independence. Given the “kill nationalists” sentiment at the Labour conference it may not be so far from their desire to impose their will by any means.

    As to the plonker who challenged upthread for the last known instance where Royal Assent was refuse, I think that was Queen Anne prior to the signing of the Acts of Union. There’s been reports of it verging towards it since then but efforts to avoid the constitutional crisis involved seems to have worked so far.

    Interestingly in Scotland It’s unclear as to whether the monarch has to ever sign as touching with the Great Seal covers that. At the moment that’s in the keeping of the First Minister. Now that implies that it’s use may be withheld. At which time I’d presume the monarch of the day would have to travel all the way to Scotland in order to sign in person. It also opens up the possibility that it may be used without their say so.

  207. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the impact the austerity on British society. This is future British Labour appear to be committed to, as I don’t see Brexit improving the macro-economic health nor social inclusiveness of Britain.

    The Coalition, austerity and mental health
    In the United Kingdom, the Coalition government’s recent commitment to improving mental health provision masks the extent that their policies of austerity have already brought harm to those same services. Government-driven policies have led to significantly reduced funding within mental health, increasing pressure on a system that was already chronically under-resourced. Further, people who are experiencing mental distress, and mental health service users, have been especially vulnerable to the harms of the current austerity programme, including being at the sharp end of the assault on public services and welfare spending. This piece discusses the impact of austerity, exploring the effects of government policies and with a critical perspective of the dominant discourses around mental health. It argues that by exacerbating social inequality, government policies are also directly leading to worsening mental health in the United Kingdom.

    Keywords: austerity; welfare reform; mental health; United Kingdom

    Sociological Perspectives on Austerity


  208. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Iain mhor @ 12:30,

    You make an interesting point that Gib, the Isle of Man and the various Channel Islands are both of the UK and not (as the Canary Islands likewise are for Spain), but that longstanding discrepancy doesn’t seem to make anyone feel that the dear old UK’s preciousss sovereignty is under threat. Yet when the same distinction (well, OK, the mirror image in one way) is proposed for NornIrn, the sky is supposed to fall in, and it absolutely can’t be countenanced under any circumstances. The reddest of all possible Tory red lines.

    The UK in fact is falling apart under the weight of its own multiple contradictions, as revealed most starkly under the self-imposed pressure of Brexshit.

    Maybe all it needs is a little extra constitutional push from Scotland to completely fall over…?

  209. Dr Jim says:

    Cat Boyd IS a false pretence

  210. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Cat Boyd in todays National calls for a credible socialist opposition to the SNP.” does she? @Fred says at 12:38 pm

    Hope she realises that can wait until after Scotland regains her Independence.

    All Political Parties registered in a foreign country will then be unable to contest a Scottish Election at any level (LA, European, Scottish GE) so London based Parties are oot.

    A real Scottish Labour Party may emerge (it may not it might be Tartan Blairite).

  211. Rock says:

    Hamish100 says:
    24 September, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    “Answer Yes.

    But it doesn’t matter either way for me as the The First Minister will make her own mind up. She has the info. Important thing is to win- whenever that is.
    Are you a Sunday National Reader yet. Go on the record.”

    Respect for having some guts, unlike the rest of the usual suspects. Have you noticed how they evade the crucial question?

    If you don’t mind a referendum after Brexit has been completed, there is zero chance of getting one, let alone winning it.

    Anyway, Nicola long ago spectacularly squandered the one in a thousand years golden opportunity of striking while the opposition was completely impotent.

    For your information, circulation of the fake “independence supporting” The National has gone down 9% and stands at 7,800.

    I am already on the record, but repeat for your convenience: I do not buy or read any rags – they are nothing more than the propaganda arm of the Establishment.

  212. Ian says:

    It’s kinda funny that the person with what most nearly resembles a smile is somehow the most depressing of them all.

  213. David says:

    What’s the chances of the next branch manager actually having the name “Wally”?

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