Wings Over Scotland

I can’t answer your question as such, I just want to say that I am appalled that so many of my sex seem to be afraid of Independence. Many will be mothers like me. To not put your child’s future ahead of anything else is unforgiveable and continuing as part of the UK gives our children little hope for the future. Independence is the only chance we have. It may not be Utopia but it will be a DAMN sight better than the alternative.

Oh, and I bet we are more scared of spiders too 😉

Maybe women are more trusting of the MSM than males.

Well this is simple, 100% of me DGAF

As the spider catcher in my household it is the male who is terrified of them 🙂
Amongst my female friends not one of them has ever engaged with me about Independence. I mainly debate with men who say they are voting No. I think women (obviously not all) are less interested in politics.  One woman said to me a few months ago that she is voting No because we will lose the NHS! Also many people do not understand the different between reserved and devolved matters.  Many people think that whatever is happening in the NHS in England and Wales is happening here, not realising that it is different in Scotland.  I feel that the NHS may be an issue for women, as it is always being attacked in the Scottish media although I don’t know for definite just my thoughts.

Better the devil you know

 @ The Flamster
I think you have something regards the Scottish NHS and the percieved threat (wrongly) of independence.  That might be the reason that NNS have found  figures showing that FOI requests on Scotlands NHS from the BBC have rocketed 700% since 2011 and Scottish Labours FOI requests for same,  show an equally startling increase since. Maybe project fear have realised that there are some gains to be made by attacking the SNPs record re the NHS and also a link to how women, in particular, perceive as to who will best protect it.

I does seem that women are generally a bit less interested in politics.  Are there any stats to tell us if women are more or less likely to vote in ordinary elections?

I think the polling was interesting, but have no real idea why these differences are there.  At the risk of being classified as a misogynist, I believe that Men and Women ARE different in many ways.  Of course not in all ways and there are exceptions.  But on “caring” issues, like the NHS or social welfare, I would have expected a slightly different response by men and women.  
 
Maybe it will soon be time for a more hard-nosed release of information from YES Scotland about the PRESENT impact of rUK policy on health, education, welfare etc.  It will of course be perceived and presented by the No-Better campaign as ‘negative’ but it will have to be done at some point.  Not too critical, simply pointing out the present reality.
 
Whether that can wait until the 16 week media neutral period I am not sure.

Rabb, I work in the NHS in Scotland and believe me, there are countless people here who have no idea about the structure of the NHS either.  I have had to educate quite a few people, some who should know better, that it is already an entirely Scottish operation and always has been.
 
I have heard people complaining about things going on in the English NHS as if they are happening here too and need to point out that the current Scottish Government is preventing these things happening here.
 
I also try to educate around Scotland’s funding and how England’s drive towards privatising their NHS is a massive threat to ours since our block grant will be cut massively as a direct response, putting our NHS and jobs at risk.  Almost nobody is aware of how this works.  I have been educating quite a few on this.  I think it’s starting to get through.

Looking at that table, I posted, the turnout figures are interesting. The youngest group at below 50% and rising with each age band.
I wonder if the referendum will follow that pattern.
 

For the ladies & mothers who may be still dithering over ‘fear factors’,
Remember this  –
By voting YES and aspiration for a new egalitarian resource rich Scotland, you have the chance to sort out this financial mess for your children.
By voting No, you opt for ‘more of the same’ and the likelihood of continuing a bankrupt union with the UK, where your best chances mean you may sort out this financial mess in time for your grandchildren.
It’s your choice ladies; your vote will make the difference

All that stat showed was that Wings is slightly LESS male-biased than other sites.
 
That’s because you’re an infamous misogynist! 😉

I can understand the figures relating to fear of various attacks, as we mothers tend to think of our children in these situations and our fears for their future. That would also account for the lower figure for invasion by space monsters, which most mothers know we could handle with aplomb.
 
But on the overall independence question, most of my female friends are all Yes voters already. It’s hard to say why others are No or undecided, as we don’t know what they will base their decision on.
 
For some of us, independence is about being a nation again, making our own decisions for better for worse. Other might need more reassurance that the country could prosper, for some it may be about their person ambitions, or their ambitions for their children. Still others may just feel we are too embedded in the UK to make the upheaval of independence worthwhile. Also, as The Flamster says above, many may just not know what is already devolved and what isn’t, and therefore imagine costs and difficulties which simply don’t exist. 
 
Without knowing what it would take to persuade each person (male or female) over to our side, it’s hard to define why some people have a better-the-devil-you-know attitude to our country’s future.
 
Perhaps that may be something to consider including in the next poll, Rev? What factors might influence people’s views on independence, what reassurances they want (from either side) about Scotland as a nation. Or even if they consider Scotland a nation.

An article in The Independent says we know less about politics overall: link to independent.co.uk
I hate to say it but I do believe women are somehow uninterested in politics in general.
From my own experience and loose thoughts I think this a gender role thing. Are we ladies actively encouraged to become political? I remember a man telling an ex of mine that he didn’t know how he could go out with someone so opinionated after I tore his argument that climate change didn’t exist apart…  I wasn’t a dick about it p.s. and he didn’t say it in a nice way. How many women could instantly think of an influential female political thinker without having previously researched it? (That they could admire…. as in, not Maggie). Maybe I was off that day in school but I don’t remember anyone really being covered, not even Mary Barbour. Someone above mentioned the association between women and “caring” issues like the NHS. Now, I’m not saying that comment is purposefully “misogynist” BUT I would wonder why we are still thought to be the caring sex? When a women strongly argues her position is she harping on, being overly “emotional”..? I would agree with the commenter above who noted that most of her political discussions are with men. Mine too. I wonder if women are worried about appearing as any of the words above… maybe too dominant or something.
Anyway – like I said, loose (and unorganised!) thoughts on a massive and interesting topic

I concur with other contributors so far.
I have a sister-in-law (working in Scotland) who is a midwife and swears only Labour will save her NHS. She doesn’t trust Alex Salmond or the Nats (as she puts it).
Can you believe it?
Its the same with the majority of Labour voters I’ve come across; who largely see the logic of independence but want to give ‘Ed’ a chance ???? How many more chances do they need ???
Clueless tribal attitudes are a real barrier where Labour are the issue.
It would take a Labour MSP to come out and speak the unspeakable (cross the chamber) and support independence. Maybe Johann Lamont is practicing such a speech and that why we haven’t seen her. Don’t hold yer breath.
 

I would urge strong caution on any attempt to make correlations about support one way or another on anything but the first two questions about Tories and terorists.
 
To me the small numbers that express an opinion is so small that the values would be swamped by background noise. A concept called false positives, something that plagues data where many tests are applied- statistically the more the question is asked, the more likely your are getting a result-however it is a result of randomness and must be discounted
 
The most interesting thing for me is that folk of both sexes reckon that both Tories and terorists are both real and tangible threats to their security. Therefore in a years time it looks likely that the Tories will be returned to office, the more likely the undecideds will vote for independence

@Gordoz-
 
Anyone who believes that ‘Ed’ is ever going to occupy No 10 is certifiable.

My personal opinion is that there is very little engagement with women beyond women as mothers. There’s little attempt to reach us as individuals in a male-dominated environment like politics and as such it just tends to pass a lot of us by. I genuinely dont know one woman who is interested in politics and the referendum by extension.

My own feeling is that women are generally less comfortable with conflict. So while a lot of men will happily wade into a very charged political debate and join in the shouting, women will often retreat from that. We like to have cost chats where we find consensus and when the debate gets too heated will change the subject. Most of my female friends are pro-indy but they won’t talk about it.
 
So ironically, I have the feeling however bad and evil Tory governments are, they appear “nicer” people, more reasonable, calmer and better to debate with than many of the Glasgow hard men types Labour tend to have. I can well understand, even as a Tory-hater and erstwhile Labour voter (and Labour member, once, briefly in the early Blair days before I woke up, which was not long after the 1997 election…) why women in Scotland might be less scared of Tories for that reason. If I had to debate the referendum I’d far rather do it politely with a Tory who’s implacably opposed to independence, devolution etc than with a Labour person who appears to have no real principles and is likely to get angry.
 
I also suspect that was a lot of Blair’s appeal – women saw him as more calm, reasonable, consensus-seeking. At least until Iraq when he showed his true colours and we then had the more typical Glasgow Labour hard man like John Reid shouting at us.
 
With the independence referendum, mostly it’s been Labour vitriol, Tory patronising and, to an extent, the SNP and Yes people retaliating. And a lot of angry passion on both sides. Hence a lot of women retreating from the debate and being undecided about which bunch men they want shouting at us and each other, and whether we want them doing so as part of the UK or an independent Scotland.

@cheryl
“My personal opinion is that there is very little engagement with women beyond women as mothers”
Yes.

My personal opinion is that there is very little engagement with women beyond women as mothers. There’s little attempt to reach us as individuals in a male-dominated environment like politics and as such it just tends to pass a lot of us by. I genuinely dont know one woman who is interested in politics and the referendum by extension.

 
I think you’re right, and I also think there’s something very insidious about it all.
 
My suspicion is that the main reason women are more undecided/no is a direct correlation to the mainstream media/”society” being more no. Even after decades of suffrage and women’s right movements, women in Scotland, the UK, and the western world in general are still suffering from generations of oppression ingrained into them, and this is fully advantageous to the No campaign.
 
Women are the “Weaker Sex”: they need “protecting” from all the dangers in the world. Women are “more emotional” than Men, and allegedly don’t think as rationally or logically: let us make the decisions for you. A woman’s place is in the home, looking after the children, to think small: don’t worry your pretty heads about the Big World, leave that to us. Sound familiar?
 
If Scots are “too wee, too poor, too stupid” to be independent, then women are “too weak, too emotional, too negligible” to vote for independence. Even in this day and age, women get a raw deal, and it’s made harder because when you think about it, how could so many women not buy into the lies they’ve already been fed? How many women do think wearing a short skirt makes a woman partially responsible for her own sexual assault? How many women do think men should be paid more, that women shouldn’t be involved in the sciences/politics/anything of merit? So many do, because that’s been the narrative for so long, it’s hard to challenge.
 
The reasons to vote Yes just keep mounting, don’t they?

@Caledonalistic
I contribute here and my only real concern is that we secure a YES vote. As I’ve said before contributors to this site come from a diverse range of background and have differing views on a range of issues.
We agree on YES, after that the fun can begin. But I am worried that too much emphasis on ‘knowing the answers’ before the vote has taken place is potentially damaging. We can’t know quite a lot and shouldn’t be afraid to say so and let people know what we do know. 
Simply speaking to counter the BT mantra …..It’s not all about the SNP, chances are the currency will work out and the NHS in Scotland’s only chance of survival is with a YES vote.

Project fear and aggression is targeted at the female electorate. The polls show men are largely sold and it is women who are more reticent and have got cold feet to a far greater extent over the last year, putting Yes back behind the N.
 
BT are aware of this hence they have really upped the fear/aggression stakes in an attempt to batter the female electorate into submission. A very stupid tactic in my opinion and one which is highly likely to backfire spectacularly. Women may be more likely to step back from conflict/try to avoid it, but they are as brave if not braver than men when it comes to the crunch. And boy do they really hate being lied to.
 
That aside, if I was pro-union the polls would have me bricking it. Why?

Well, if I was to ask where the biggest swing is, i.e. where Yes gets most of its votes from, you might imagine from Don’t Knows? Nope, they come from No. The greatest swing by far is between Yes and No.
 
Y vs N has the strongest correlation of all in polls. People who said Yes before have recently been saying No. These people won’t vote No though as they are Yes people, otherwise they’d never have said Yes in the past.
 
The correlation between Y and DK is more modest but evident; so you do get some people transferring here. Yes can gain from DK.
 
There’s no almost no correlation between DK and N which will additionally put the wind up BT; no DKs are turning to N.
 
Basically, you have a core No vote that won’t go to DK or Yes come hell or high water; 30% at best.
 
You have a lot of DK’s who when they finally make their mind up, opt for Yes. Sometimes they swing back to DK, but they’re Yes people if they vote.
 
Then you have a sizable chunk (up to 15%) who say Yes then say No depending on how nervous they are  and/or how shy. The shy only appear in non-anonymous polls (telephone and face to face).
 
 
This is why BT are in a panic. Their ‘silent majority who love the union’ don’t exist. The polls are over-egging the No. The No is weak and susceptible to a large reverse swing to Yes. They’re not getting any DK’s on board. 

@Albalha
The point I was trying to make earlier was that those major ‘profound’ questions will be resolved one way or another and I’d argue that they’ll have minimal effect on the living standards of most Scots.  

Quite simply, they don’t merit the attention they get.  I’m thinking that’s also what you’re saying.

I agree that less focus should be put on giving answers to questions simply because No keep asking them.  Instead, the focus should be put on how Scots would be more engaged in helping to come up with those answers.  How will central government work?  Will Holyrood just continue to function as it does now?  How about local government?  What about board representation of public bodies and institutions?  

I think the SNP have made a mistake by trying to emphasise how little would change.  I know why they’ve done it but I’d have preferred they gambled on playing to peoples’ aspirations and need for change. 

In short, less focus on specific answers and more focus on how those answers could be arrived at and how Scots in general will be engaged in the process is the way to go in my view.  

@Caledonialistic
Agreed, the saddest, maybe a tad dramatic, part for me is people should be excited, this is a big deal for those of us who live in Scotland just now, a once in a lifetime opportunity. Anyway we can only hope it goes the YES way. 
 

Interesting figures Rev.
 
Could be women are more cautious than men by nature, or maybe women dont particulary like change, as for the terrorism factor, I blame the MSM, for hyping it up.
 
Quite frankly though Ive been married, for umpteen years and I still cant figure women out..lol.

I think the SNP have made a mistake by trying to emphasis how little would change.
 
I’m in two minds about that. On the one hand, there is a natural fear of too much change too fast. An independent Scotland is exciting, partly because it’s a blank page; partly because it seems to blindingly obvious and once you’ve realised that you can’t help wonder why the hell we’re not independent already.
 
When you start getting into thinking about “then we’ll have another referendum for the monarchy, and one for the EU, then we’ll have a big argument about….” personally I start to get a headache. After this campaign, the absolute last thing I want to envisage for the early days of a new nation is people shouting at each other about whether we keep the monarch or not. That actually puts me off the whole idea of independence. Which is a shame as it shouldn’t – I’d love to have a choice on the monarchy. But I just know the “debate” on that will make this one look reasonable and friendly and most normal people won’t touch it with a bargepole. 
 
So the more gradualist approach, as the SNP are taking, where we take independence, but not too much more will change immediately is a re-assuring one for a lot of people, I think. But that said, the idea “nothing will change” after independence is entirely wrong and needs to be countered. Everything will change because we’ll have the power and ability to change it. Whether we do or not is a change.
 
One thing I’d like to see all on the Yes side really press home is changes which might not be obvious to some people but which would probably be hugely popular. For example, we will have a Scottish passport; Scotland will be a real country on drop-down menus; Scotland is not currently in the EU, NATO, UN etc as a country – it’s not currently a “real” country in that sense. A Yes vote will make us a real country, and you’ll actually be Scottish on your passport and able to identify as such internationally. That for me would be a massive change emotionally, even if it wouldn’t affect my day-to-day life a jot.

Women read salacious gossip magazines like Hello & OK so they can compare the size & shape of a celebrity’s tits to their own. And they imagine Tom Cruise coming home with a bag full of groceries from Aldi, exude charm while knocking up a dinner of egg & chips & then shag the arse off them before cosying up on the couch to watch Eastenders. This provides them with mindless, puerile but safe entertainment.
Men prefer to watch violent movies & participate in drunken hooliganism at football matches. This reinforces the perception that they enjoy taking risks & that they are brave.
Apart from those two minor differences, I have no idea why women would consider independence differently from men.

@Cath.
 
Quite right Cath, getting the information out their is the key to success, I for one feel
that if the public were properly informed YES would win.

“Oscar-winning [Unionist] actress Emma Thompson has become the patron of Edinburgh College’s Performing Arts Studio of Scotland.”

“Thompson was introduced to the studio by former Scottish Youth Theatre (SYT) student John Naples-Campbell who is now an acting and theatre performance lecturer at Edinburgh College.”

link to archive.is

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UKOKdar is receiving archived message from subject’s memory chimneys.

John Naples-Campbell, 12:38 PM on 16/10/2012:

“There are too many questions that remain unanswered by the SNP to make our nation Vote YES. ‘The emotional appeal of independence speaks strongly to many Scots. But the practicalities are something else.’ This speaks the truth. 

“The SNP CAN NOT continue to give free education (which was introduced by Labour), Freeze council Tax, free prescriptions, free travel… it goes on… as our wages are frozen, bills increase, refuse collection gets cut, education and NHS budgets are destroyed… they are living in a dream! SNP need to answer the important questions of WHAT WILL THE IMPACT BE… if we move to the Euro then as a nation we are screwed. Look at Greece, Spain… Dan Dodd mentions being ruled by a Tory Government… The Scots aren’t… Alex Salmond is our First Minister. 

The notion of giving 16 & 17 year olds vote for this is ridiculous… either give them the full vote for ALL elections or none… they can’t even buy cigarettes as they are too young… but can make a decision on the future of our country? I’m an educator and I completely agree that 16 & 17 year olds should be given the vote BUT for all elections… Alex Salmond is hoping for the ‘braveheart’ vote from our youth. Teachers in schools now have an ADDED pressure of making sure that they are fully prepared for this life changing election.

“SNP – I am open to change my mind BUT answer me the questions that need answered first! Better Together is my thought”

link to archive.is

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Good enough analysis S-S for me.
 
The only thing that could radically shift opinion to the ‘safe’ NO would be so cataclysmic , it is beyond even the comprehension or powers of BT, but who’s to say such could not happen? 
If I was to be Doomsayer – General, my concern would be founded on what Westminster’s friends could  do by way of a ‘favour’, but it’s such a wildly desperate ploy it’s resolutely better not to even factor it in, for sanity’s sake.
 
The MSM and BBC are really playing with fire, but given the WOS panelbase findings, with more to come, even their best slash and burn is failing. 
 
Taking the S-S analysis above, there’s no possibility of it being a marginal result. There’s simply no leverage for NO, it will be massively YES. 

Although all women are bonkers, they aren’t stupid.
Should the household income be given to the neighbours, and they decide most things for you, whilst giving you a bit of pocket money?
Should a country govern itself, or should countries be governed by bigger neighbours?
Simples.

I’m an American woman, we tend to vote more progressively than American men. We tend to be more the risk takers. That is why it frustrates the hell out of me that women in Scotland (is England the same?) are so cautious and prone to supporting the status quo.  
 
Seriously, I’m surprised women won the right to vote in the UK as long ago as they did. Seems to me many would be happy still not having that opportunity.

“There’s simply no leverage for NO, it will be massively YES. ”
 
One other thing to consider is UKOKs plan for next year appears to be to bombard us with WWI celebrations of Britishness. But during WWI Glasgow was the major centre of anti-war protest, as well as home of rent strikes – led, and won, by women. War is a very male thing, in which women and children suffer silently.
 
Now there was an interesting poll recently that found, “men in Glasgow tended to view the anniversary as a Unionist event which would be used to undermine the case for Scottish independence six weeks before the vote.” Women, OTOH are more trusting, viewing it, “in terms of empathy for soldiers and their families and felt it was a time to remember “the debt to those who died”.
 
That strongly suggests any attempts and making political capital out of this “celebration” will backfire very badly on Westminster.

link to heraldscotland.com

scotchwoman
You are right, no doubt ignorance did play it’s part here, but the scary thing was she was happy with her ignorance.She showed scant interest in knowing!
However, I gave her food for thought, and she “says”, she will take more interest as the time comes nearer. We can only hope that she really, really looks beyond the MSM for her answers.
Also, you are right about her male counterparts, I  have had numerous frustrating talks with quite a few.What is apparent is  their total ignorance of what they say they will vote for. They know  few facts,are always surprised when I try to enlighten them, but basically they  seem hard to turn, my conclusion is that it requires a little effort to find the truth, and they can’t be bothered doing it.
We just have to keep trying. To inform them of how their OWN lives may be effected by a NO vote,seems the way to go, and what is we must all try and get them to understand,then we may get a different response.

@juteman
You surely know Dundee men are the kettle boilers!

@Albalha.
Very true. 🙂
Dundee has a wonderful history of radical women.

O/T but I see there’s a post on the British Unity Vote No site comparing YES voters to the “extremists like the Muslim Brotherhood”. Unbelievably sick and chilling, given that it was only posted today. I can only presume the person posting it would happily condone the same treatment. The fact the page has left it there is also pretty alarming. 
 
link to facebook.com

Whenever I mention the word ‘referendum’ my missus just rolls her eyes and says “What now?”
 
She has no interest in the referendum or politics whatsoever and never discusses it.
Here’s the interesting bit though.
 
Whenever I shout at the TV when the BBC in Scotland news is on she always says the same thing “I don’t know why you get so worked up, we all know they’re talking mince, get over it!
I know she’s voting yes but the perception people would get from her is that she doesn’t really care about independence. In fact anyone would think she was a unionist with all the tutting and eye rolling whenever you mention the I word!
 
I’m sure there will be many many more like her.

Hetty says:
 
G H Graham 
 
I’m not sure your post about women reading salacious mags is in very good taste, joke aside it’s a bit uncalled for matey.
Also I am noticing lots of O/T posts, is it too boring to stick to the subject of gender re Indy and politics in question here?

Reporting Scotland has just had a love in between G Campbell and D Cameron during DC’s short break on Jura, breathtakingly bad. DC’s Dad in Law had/has an estate on Jura.
Apparently GC has been requesting an interview for years and this year he said yes.
GC says ‘Some people might say it’s because of the vote next year but ……”.
Aye right Glenn, we’ll do without the ‘buts’.

The only women I know who are voting YES are those I have come across, (who are now all my friends 😀 ) on facebook and twitter who are ‘tuned into’ politics. All of my personal female friends are voting NO. They seem more interested in reading about and watching celebs, soaps, going shopping and gossiping. We must get these women interested but I’m still trying to figure out how it can be done…perhaps a free 10 years sub for Ok magazine..I dunno….Maybe if we tell these women that if they vote NO there will be no more shops? lol..

Ooh, nice find. Blustering, defensive and evasive as usual.

He does know people think he’s lying and that they’re correct in their assumptions. It’s a natural reaction under the circumstances.

@scottish_skier
Oh no he doesn’t – know that people think he’s lying; it hasn’t been reported in the papers so it cannot exist. Its as bad as the Abdication crisis where the papers had not been reporting what Westminster knew and the “crisis” happened when it couldn’t be hidden from the man on the Auchenshuggle tram.

@Albalha
Reporting Scotland has just had a love in between G Campbell and D Cameron during DC’s short break on Jura, breathtakingly bad. DC’s Dad in Law had/has an estate on Jura.
Apparently GC has been requesting an interview for years and this year he said yes.
GC says ‘Some people might say it’s because of the vote next year but ……”.
Aye right Glenn, we’ll do without the ‘buts’.
 
Boothman strikes again.  Even Jackie Bird and Glenn Campbell looked uncomfortable, Campbell in particular I thought.  This was a puff piece extraordinaire.  This is a PM whose government has attacked the poor and vulnerable relentlessly.  Sickening by BBC Scotland.

@muttley79
Just awful. As a comparison Channel 4 News doing a piece from Padstow on expensive housing, locals being priced out, low wages etc and making the point that D Cameron is about to head there to stay with a Tory MP who owns two second homes in the town.
Don’t think Cathy Newman will be staying on to walk along the beach with Dave chatting about his bad back!

Much LESS scared of Conservative governments
Females more iinfluenced by posh/educated voices, and Tories have more of these.
Other fears
It is in their genes to be more fearful than males of everything particularly the unknown..
HALF as scared of space monsters
Females are not into black humour like men. I think they would view this as a silly question. (So did I)
Slightly LESS scared overall (26% said “none of the above”, vs 22% of men)
Surely this is wrong. Females as a species are in general more afraid of the unkown than males.
 

Off topic but…
‘   Opposition parties have accused ministers of trying to pretend the figure applied to Scotland alone and then quietly issuing a correction…. ‘
The above is the actual words someone in the BBC decided to use in a report about oil jobs. The BBC are of course the masters of making corrections. Or are they?
When, rather than if, their reports are found to be inaccurate they don’t make any public correction at all because it is ‘not newsworthy’. If it’s the SNP- main story! Have compared and contrasted… and stopped paying the licence fee 🙂
 

@asupporter,
How do you know that females aren’t just more comfortable expressing fear than men? 

Betsy I wasn’t being critical of females. Merely observing that no matter how sophisticated we think we are today it is not long ago in evolutionary terms that men hunted while women stayed by the cave and gathered. The genes evolved then are still with us and i would suggest that women are still basically more fearful than men, eg, men walk in lonely places at night, women don’t.

I’m afraid it’s true that many men and women are not aware that Education, Law and NHS Scotland are wholly the responsibility of the Scottish Government -even before we had the parliament to run it.  This needs to be reinforced and the fact that a No vote is in fact a positive choice for less money for Holyrood, (Barnett cuts to come as England spends less on public services)  less for these vital services and the people who run and use them.  
Women will need reassured their families’ futures and these 3 services, savings and pensions are safe with independence as they will be, and fear is what they should feel with staying in the Union. The official Yes campaign will always be a positive one, but the alternative should be made clear, even if its only by Wings and other blogs.

also a bit distressed at gross generalisations of the female gender. We are all individuals with all kinds of experiences and concerns. All these will have to be addressed, for men and women.

“The people in Scotland are ageing more rapidly than the people in the rest of the uk.”
 
Alistair Darling
 
Aye, after half an hour of listening to this shite from Darling I as a Scot felt 100 years fucking older.
 
Hilarious blustering guff from what was more like “Soft Talk” than HardTalk bbc………though Darling struggled to even justify the simplest of his very simplistic statements which came across as if even he didn’t believe his own twaddle and he truly struggled having even the most gentlest of challenges by the interviewer soft bowled at him with a flower and the petals that accompanied the question.
 
A bad show, he should be ashamed and embarrassed but we all now that he isn’t, that is what desperation does to you.
 
I also enjoyed the interviewer saying “You are happy that for the last thirty years those in favour of an Independent Scotland has stayed at thirty percent while those who are against or  haven’t decided is at 70%!”
Why should that please a nay sayer?
 
Anyone?
 

Slightly OT but since many posters above have mentioned the importance of the NHS this website is a good place to start comparing stats specifically on cancer. I compared Greater Glasgow and Clyde with Newcastle-upon-Tyne and the 62 day diagnosis rates were very favourable while the incidence rates suggested it was a valid comparison. You cannot directly compare Scottish results with English results but that simply requires a pen and a piece of paper to get around. 
link to cancerresearchuk.org

a ‘supporter’: “Merely observing that no matter how sophisticated we think we are today it is not long ago in evolutionary terms that men hunted while women stayed by the cave and gathered.”
 
I don’t think that the opening credits of the Flintstones should be treated like it was a documentary mate.
 
The reasons a man might go down a dark alley at night are plentiful, (and maybe construed as wrong) but I bet not many of these reasons comes across as being because we are inherently ‘brave’ or ‘dead ‘ard’ in comparison to women rather than some of us are a bit ‘daft’.
 

A supporter: “That’s no good for the bulk of the population. I said we needed a simple list of what is devolved plus simple explanations of what it means.”
 
I am afraid that anyone who can type can find out what you think is impossible, even a child could do it-set your heights and replies a bit higher or you could come across as a  person talking absolute shite about women to make the good commentators here look bad (you dream) and also coming across as a person who has no clue as to the contribution woman have made to the world.
 
If I was a very pro british type, for instance, I might cite ‘Boudicca” for instance as no guy would jump her in a dark alley and live I’d imagine!
 
Or indeed ‘Britannia’ – because she ruled the waves when men didnae.
 
 

‘devolved powers scottish parliament’ typed into google gives:
 
link to scottish.parliament.uk
 
Here is a snippet:
 
Devolved powers
The following areas are decided in Scotland.
 

Health

Education

Housing

Sport and Arts

Agriculture, Forestry & Fishing

Emergency Services

Planning

Social Work

Heritage

some Transport

Tourism  

Reserved powers
Decisions (mostly about matters with a UK or international impact) are reserved and dealt with at Westminster.

Defence

UK Foreign Policy

Social Security

Financial & Economic Matters

Employment

Constitutional matters

Immigration & Nationality

Monetary System

Common Markets

Some transport

Data Protection

Energy

Gambling

Medical Ethics

Equal Opportunities

 
The UK Parliament at Westminster retains power to legislate on any matter, but the convention of devolution is that the UK Parliament will not normally legislate on devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.
 
That last one is why we need to vote YES by the way, ‘cos if we vote no we are going to see that last sentence being applied by westminster.
 
Keeping us women and men in our place.

Most people I know aren’t interested in Politics. Much to my frustration – because politics (small p) affects everything in your life. Sick of hearing comment like ‘Nothing will change’, ‘My vote won’t change anything’. ‘They’re all the same’. I view this as a cop out. If you don’t like it, do something to change it. Unfortunately, in my experience, far fewer women are interested than men. There’s no simple answer as to why this is. I can take a guess to some of the reasons a) less time – politic watching is perceived as a hobby b) more responsibilities so less time c) women’s issues – I find this personally patronising. Whilst childcare/care of elderly relatives/housework certainly impact more on women still, aren’t we past the stage that these should be seen as women’s issues only. Aren’t they everyone’s issues? d) Copping out, as above. Governance is the responsibility of all. Stop leaving it to the men. e) Men have louder voices and appear to be absolutely confident in their opinion. Women still find it more difficult to speak publicly and like take time to think before commenting. Re. the referendum in general. Women are less likely to be risk takers and they perceive indy as a risk.

@TonyLittle – I hope, if anyone assesses the situation, they would naturally vote yes! It is a disgrace that the MSM are betraying people by failing to provide impartial information.
 
I was at the Iain McWhirter talk at the Book Festival last week. Someone in the audience asked the “Too Poor” question. MacWhirter swatted it away and told the guy: Scotland has vast reserves of Hydrocarbon energy, 25% of all the renewable wind/wave energy in Europe, and more world class universities than either France or Germany.  It could easily be independent.
Why don’t journalists on the BBC deal with facts like that, and move onto further discussions about the issues?
The biggest problem is convincing anyone that Scotland would be different from Westminster. Once people accept that Westminster in its current form is unreformable, then voting Yes is the option.
I just watched the 5 minute Pat Kate/Greg McClymont discussion on The Guardian website – all McClymont did was nitpick on differences between SNP & Yes. Unbelieveable. He had positive nothing to say!
 
OTOH, as commented on earlier, the No campaign are sucking the life out of their own supporters, making them disinclined to vote at all!

Re NHS stats – just a caution on trying to compare health stats. The biggest mistake politicians make about health is trying to quantify everything. Health care is a complex mix and much of the most important stuff is qualitative. In any case, the NHS in all four countries has diverged so much as to be barely recognisable.

Hetty,
Salacious gossip magazines are read in their millions by women every week & it is reasonable to assume that some will have their opinions, values, ideas & indeed intentions influenced by them.
And I’m not your mate since we don’t know each other.
Don’t be offended when your preferred topic of choice is side lined; no one appears to be able to explain using facts, voting intentions due to gender so it’s inevitable the subject of conversation might change.
Did anyone see the football on the telly last night?

I’ve found the hardest to be persuaded are women and the younger new voters (16+). I’ve discussed the independence referendum with many people. Persuaded 5 people from No/maybe to yes now and another 2 who were absolutely against to now undecided/verging towards yes – they are all men.
The answer I get back from women is usually ”things are fine” or there abouts, when I try to explain but they won’t be in the future, the debt,  we will not get any further powers for the parli, the full scale of the cuts are yet to be felt, the UK will be struggling economically for years – added on with the surplus of resources we have, the govt we vote for we will get, the shockingly poor levels of poverty in Scotland and how Westminister have yet to tackle them, plus some of the stuff the Scots parli has done to lead the way (both when Lib-Lab were in power and the SNP) it’s meant with indifference.
I’ve also had the ”I like British tele”.
Hopefully Yes are working on this as I’d hate to see us lose this thing by 2-3 % yet women vote for indy at 20% or something ridiculous low. 

 
Angus say at 9.25 pm
 
Are you on the juice or something? How many of the population do you think can type?  Surely it is not too much to ask that YES/SNP produce the information about what is and what is not devolved in an easily available and readable format. 
And this article is about why women are apparently more fearful than men and I gave what in my opinion are a few reasons why that may be so. If you don’t agree with me, too bad. Produce your own reasons. But don’t make uneducated and incoherent rants at me.
 

On Womens issue  – maybe fairness is a point to focus on. Equality ?
What about press equality in referendum, get them to identify the pro YES newspaper in all fairness there must be one surely  – isn’t there ??? (There must be / ther has to be).
Create a link to womens feelings of inequality ??? Some women moan about not having a voice or being heard. Sound familiar ??

Well, I do think women will take their time and make their mind up, nothing wrong with that. I imagine when Sept next year comes around they will have a pretty good idea of what it will mean for Scotland if they either don’t vote or vote no.  They will have to stand up and be counted or live with the consequences. There can be no excuses for burying your head in the sand with something as important as this especially when it will be printed out in black and white.  I honestly believe that, once the women really start to pay attention, have a full grasp of what the lies are that are being peddled and what the real truth is, they will definately rise up and make the right decision.  We must get their attention somehow and let them know they are central to this referendum. Nobody in their right mind could accept what a No vote will do to our children and their children, surely?

Rev, the Muslim Brotherhood comment is in the “recent post by others” bit, someone called Derick McKenzie, about 10 hours ago from now, on this page link to facebook.com
 
Or this might work: a very ironic post, but still somewhat sinister.
 

@Betsy
 
Thanks for the information, although I think I’ll give Cllr Kelly’s personal thoughts a miss. 

OT. BBC News reporting that personal emails from Yes have been leaked/hacked.

I forgot, they also asked about the quality of Scottish football in comparison with the English leagues and how well Celtic would do in England.
In the comments box at the end had a go at them for not asking how confident I was about actually getting anything promised post referendum, assuming a No vote and suggested a propos football they were to Anglo centric.
Why not a North Atlantic `league spanning Ireland Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark?

their was a recent press release by Nicola Sturgeon, in which she said that internal polling by the SNP was showing a definite shift towards Yes from women, on the scaled polling that they do.
This caused an almighty gripe from BT and some in the MSM (including  Proff Curtice) as they moaned that the SNP needed to release all their data, and should not just release the good points.
 
However no one in BT denied the claims that women were moving towards Yes.

Albaha – what activities do you do that tend to promote a Scottish identity? If it is difficult to come up with anything, then you’ll see my point. (Though obviously, posting on WoS would be one 🙂 )

Yes Campaign email account has been hacked.
 
It seems to follow a similar pattern, whereby information is gained or leaked and passed onto the media for publication or broadcasting that then becomes a critical story of the YES campaign or the Scottish government.
 
This is the British state at its best when it sees itself threatened by indulging in a DIRTY TRICKS campaign.  
 
Expect Dodgy Dossiers, break ins, entrapment, bugging,  smearing of prominent nationalists, etc. 
 
The real campaign starts today, its going to be blood, hair and snottirs from now on. 

O/T We may now get booted out of the Commonwealth if we vote YES next year.
 
Desperate times.  You have to admire the persistence of the BBC.  No stone unturned.

The question is, do women turn out to vote / are as politically participative in actual voting terms as men? I would imagine that they are, in broadly general terms.
 
This means that women, just like their male counterparts, will certainly come to a conclusion, on which way to vote, in time for the referendum deadline. They will make their decision on broadly the same criteria as men and they will gain their information on the pros and cons of each side from the same general pool of information floating around society at the time of the vote.
 
It’s up to us to influence that general pool of information in society, by getting out there and injecting the facts of independence into our society via millions of grass roots interactions. This is well underway and will dramatically increase the closer we get to the referendum. 
 
The betterNO campaign relies on the MSM and broadcasters such as the BBC to perform this task for them, but against the grassroot, face to face discussion philosophy of YES, these organisations suffer terribly from mistrust, and unfortunately for them, from the very societal pool that they are being tasked to influence.
 
In my opinion, the difference between current voting intentions between women and men are simply due to women, for various societal reasons, tend to interact with political debates/campaigns much closer to the time taht a decision is required than men do.
 
The responses we are currently seeing from women at the moment, and getting worked up about, is just that, current.
 
I am confident this current (disengaged) view will change as women, just like the rest of society, begin to engage seriously with the political and social arguments at the centre of the decision that everyone is being asked to make on September 18th 2014.