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Welcome to the future

Posted on July 13, 2013 by

The Herald publishes a rather interesting story today, revealing that according to professional media analysts Brandwatch, almost three quarters of social media users in Scotland are planning to vote Yes in the referendum.

brandwatch

(For some reason the Herald chose to publish the piece under the headline “Davey doubts Scotland will reach green energy target”, which we’ll put down to the heat, and to emphasise the notion that the high level of support was “despite” the SNP.)

devlindavey

Exciting news to be sure. Unless, that is, you’re a follower of the Wings Over Scotland Twitter account, in which case you’d probably be significantly less impressed, on the grounds that you’d already heard it three weeks ago.

brandtwitter

You really should be following our Twitter account, you know.

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    96 to “Welcome to the future”

    1. Peter says:

      “You really should be following our Twitter account, you know.”
      Ok, ok, point taken 🙂

    2. Atypical_Scot says:

      They’ve fixed the headline, probably because you pointed it out on your twitter feed earlier. 

      Now corrected to ‘Why the online chat is pro-independence…but not because of SNP’

    3. Macart says:

      Jeez that’s the longest link. Hope it hasn’t screwed anything up Rev.

    4. TYRAN says:

      Eskimos & Egypt

    5. kininvie says:

      Looks like the Don’t Knows don’t go online a lot…

    6. scottish_skier says:

      Looks like the Don’t Knows don’t go online a lot…
      Or they’re reading but not commenting as they’re making up their minds.

    7. ianbrotherhood says:

      @kininvie-
       
      Maybe they Don’t Know how to.

    8. CameronB says:

      Or don’t have a computer at home, which is the same as not going on line, I suppose.

    9. Shinty says:

      or just crap broadband!

    10. mato21 says:

      Don’t forget the silent majority that was begged to phone in when things weren’t going as expected

    11. Mike Hutchison says:

      I’d hazard a guess that the low result on don’t knows is simply most of them don’t care to be involved in the debate yet and aren’t even browsing relevant sites; next year is too far away for most of them right now. 

    12. annie says:

      Obviously the people online have access to more information about independence and able to read the facts as opposed to the myths and scare stories.

    13. ianbrotherhood says:

      Today, while folk were signing our petition, I bellowed ‘Axe the Bedroom Tax! Axe the Tories!’ (my chosen slogan for the day.)
       
      The old dear on the other side of the table, head-down, writing her details, said ‘Aye, okay son, I’m nearly done.’

    14. HandandShrimp says:

      I think a number of them respond using a crayon on their screen though.
       
      Just saying like

    15. turnbul drier says:

      @ianbrotherhood
       Where are the pics of the wall paper table? 

    16. Macart says:

      If you really want to mess with their heads online we could start using Windtalkers. 😀

    17. CameronB says:

      @ Macart
      I think our explaining the reality of things is doing enough ‘messing’, no need to be bloodthirsty. 🙂

      BTW, you mentioned what line of work you are in and I was wondering at what stage of the process. Hope you don’t think I’m being nosy, its just that I was in the same game.

    18. JPJ says:

      For those needing a bit of encouragement, Paddy Power are now expecting “Yes” to achieve 41.5 % of the Referendum Vote per today’s betting.
      If that does not sound that great it compares with 32.5% on the 16th of May, I have the betting slip to prove that  🙂 
       

    19. Macart says:

      @CameronB
       
      Prepress. Old fashioned designer/illustrator reduced to bashing buttons and file fixing these days. 🙂
       
      Started out cut and paste under old compugraphics and tail end of hot metal.

    20. CameronB says:

      @ Macart
      An artisan reduced to a ‘Mac Monkey’. Such is progress I suppose. Hope you are kept busy and don’t have to deal with too many ‘bags of washing’. If only PDFs worked the way they are supposed to. 😉

    21. AlexMcI says:

      Sorry to go off topic guys, I’m looking for some help in understanding exactly what sovereignty means . I think I remember a post from about a year ago, mad jock I think posted it and it explained it in Laymans terms. I’m struggling to understand the difference between Scotland and England and would be grateful for any pointers, good links to explain it. Thanks in advance for any help.

    22. Macart says:

      @CameronB
       
      Hence MAC – ART.
       
      Cheating these days right enough. Using a pretty good Heidelberg Prinect workflow. Pre flight is pretty bomb proof and colour management is a breeze. Up to my armpits in recalibration right now. Press to proof (a bloody nightmare at best of times). New inks, new substrate provider (sigh).

    23. CameronB says:

      @ AlexMcl
      Not again. 😉
      I’d best leave that to someone who knows what they are talking about. 🙂

      @ Macart
      Oh the joys. It is kind of fun though, in a nerdy kind of way. 🙂

      P.S. You wouldn’t know anyone looking for a B2 Heidelberg Drum Scanner? Bit of a dinosaur, but the engineer knew its history and said it was near mint.

    24. Macart says:

      Hah, try explaining the concept of bleed to someone using Publisher sometime. 😀

      Jeez a drum scanner. That’s going back a bit.

      Can’t think of anyone of hand, but I’ll ask around.

    25. Macart says:

      Of? Now you know why I work in file fixing and imaging. 😀

    26. ianbrotherhood says:

      @turnbul dryer-
       
      I’m sorry, but no images of the SSP wallpaper table are available. Yet.
       
      Yes Scotland had a very smart thing, more of a customised space-age signing-booth than a wallpaper table. Ours wasn’t bad either – very heavy-duty plastic with steel fittings, and a total bastard to humph from the place we managed to get parked – but nae contest in the end.
       
      I’m currently consulting with SSP hierarchy to establish whether or not release of any images (which may or may not exist) would be beneficial to our cause.
       
      If any such images do exist, and their release is approved, I’ll make sure you’re the first to know!
       
      (BTW, as if you’d have to guess – Better Together’s wallpaper table was nowhere to be seen. The only verified sighting of one was reported on this very site some months ago, in Giffnock.) 
       
       

    27. AlexMcI says:

      @cameron b , lol . Sorry if I got a bit intense mate , feelings running high and all that.

    28. AlexMcI says:

      @ cynical highlander , thanks mate it’s another the one I was thinking of but it’s a brilliant start. This soverignty is a minefield. Lol . I’m kind of trying to explain it but find myself struggling to come to terms with it.

    29. CameronB says:

      @ Macart
      OK, no laughing. It will easily take a 45mm neg all the way to 9m x 3m. Pin sharp, apart from all the texture in the film. So OK, old technology. I’ve got a similar quality  B3 Heidelberg Flatbed, as well. It would be a shame to split them up. 🙂
       

    30. AlexMcI says:

      @ cynical highlander , thanks mate , thats the one. You must have some memory. I just remembered that it was a post which struck a chord with me. brilliant

    31. Macart says:

      @CameronB
       
      Now that’s a baby I’m familiar with. Nice machine and brings back a few memories. We’re an Epson house now front end but I reckon you’ll shift the B3 quicker.
       
      We’d better get back on track though. Talking shop’s great, but we’ll get in bother wi the chargehand. 😉

    32. CameronB says:

      @ AlexMcl
      No worries. I can’t remember you saying anything that I didn’t like, apart from… 😉
      Did you get my bit about the constitution? Hope you didn’t think I was trying to patronise. Despite what you might think about me from my avitar, I’m a bit like Ronnie Corbet. I’m not Spartacus.

    33. ianbrotherhood says:

      @AlexMcl-
       
      Mister, your ears must’ve been burning this afternoon, about 1 o’clock?
       
      If they were, it wasn’t just the sun.
       
      I was singing your praises to a guy in Ayr I got chatting to. He was great, ex-Labour guy, with his missus and (I guess) daughter. They all signed our Bedroom Tax petition, then he started-off about all-sorts – the monarchy, the MP’s wage-rise, the Faslane carry-on etc etc. You could see his missus itching to get on, but not in a bad way, and their lass was just laughing. But the guy’s patter was great, you could tell he doesn’t often get the chance to sound-off.
       
      That’s when I told him about your posts last night, all the stuff you were saying. Ended-up writing the link to here, but I couldn’t remember your handle, or the thread’s name. Anyway, he was made-up, and his wife was happy enough too when I suggested that she let him get out the house and do some street-work. I daresay he will, but whether or not it’ll be with the SSP, no matter – you could see the guy was up for it, and his folks enjoyed seeing him getting that bit of encouragement.
       
      No doubt you’ll find out who the guy is, one way or another – such is kismet mister.
       
      I’m buzzing after today, and it’s not just the Lambrini – we are winning this thing on the street, and that’s the only place that really matters.
       
      Slainte. 

    34. AlexMcI says:

      Ok didn’t think I could do that. But reading it again I can see why I remembered it. It’s a brilliant post.

    35. ianbrotherhood says:

      Rev,
       
      Please don’t send all the computer-nerds to Quarantine,
       
      Please?

    36. AlexMcI says:

      @ianbrotherhood.  So glad you had a good day in Ayr mate. And my post was just from the heart. a few beers probably fired my indignation as well lol. 

    37. Dcanmore says:

      @Macart @CameronB
       
      Started off as a typesetter and paste-up artist (newspapers and commercial print) and also produced camera ready artwork and negs in the darkroom, great days! Left pre-press a few years ago (using Heidleberg systems) to concentrate on editorial and graphics. Now a production editor (ie ‘Mac-Monkey’ as CameronB puts it) on a magazine.

    38. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Alex Mcl-
       
      Transcendental states are allowed mister.
       
      The comrade with me today (who shall remain nameless) was feeling a tad ropey this morning as we headed off. Turns out he had an unexpected visit from a neighbour last night and ended-up having a long political discussion during which he managed to shift seventeen cans of Guinness.
       
      Astonishingly, he survived the street session without any major trouser accidents.
       
      That’s devotion fur ye!

    39. Angus McLellan says:

      What else are you missing if you’re not on Twitter? Well, tonight the Sunday Herald are trailing a story which will say tomorrow that the “real cost of getting rid of Trident is just £150 million”.

      And on the subject of what things do or don’t cost, here’s a wee story.

      At number 379 on Better Together’s (in)famous list of 500 (ish) questions was “what would it cost to run a DVLA in Scotland”. Well, I was bored the other day, so he’s my answer. But I could be wrong. It’s happened before.

      In Ireland they have cars and driving licenses and MoTs and so on. The Irish government organisation which deals with these is called the Road Safety Authority. It cost about €46 million to run in 2011-12, about half from the taxpayer and the rest in ‘user fees’ (i.e. driving test charges, license charges and so on). This is not counting road tax or vehicle excise duty, which the RSA (and the DVLA here) collect, but which is passed direct to the treasury.

      Over here there are currently (at least) four agencies to do the same job. These are the DVLA, the VOSA, the DSA and the VCA. Next year the VOSA and DSA will merge. For the record, these were numbers 45, 63, 44 and 64 on Westminster’s list of 205 government organisations that might need creating in an independent Scotland. Some of these are entirely financed by user charges. The total amount paid by taxpayers and ‘customers’ for these organisations in 2011-12 was about £946 million by my count. GERS-logic says that £78 million of that was spent for Scotland. That’s about €94 million or about twice as much as in Ireland. Now we might not do things the way Ireland does them. But we could do, if we wanted.

      When it comes to people, the Irish organisation employs 250-300 people. Last year the DVLA and the rest employed 600 people in Scotland. Got to love those economies of scale, eh? But it’s not like there aren’t plenty of other jobs those people could be doing in an independent Scotland. After all, some of Westminster’s 205 organisations really would need to be created and staffed.

      If you’re tempted to ask “can you compare costs between the UK and Ireland like that?”, the answer is Yes. No need to do any of that Purchasing Power Parity nonsense because if you did you’d find out that a simple exchange rate comparison with Ireland and a PPP one differs by less than 1%. Sure, lots of people say Ireland is expensive compared to the UK, but the OECD say not. I know who I’d believe.

    40. AlexMcI says:

      @cameron b, yes thanks for that, that’s why I love this site, there’s always someone who can point you in the right direction. It may sound strange but the folk on hear have informed me more on politics than any mainstream politician in the world. There are so many posts that make me stop and think to myself, jeez I never thought about it that way.

    41. CameronB says:

      @ Dcanmore & Macart
      Sorry guys, didn’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings. If it makes you any happier, I was the knob in the MD’s chair. Always the last to hear about anything, but always getting their head nipped, eh! 😉

    42. Dcanmore says:

      Back on topic … not only do BT have zero grassroots campaigning, they can’t compete with the online buzz either. YES have the vision, the momentum and positivity which is compelling for ordinary people. The Independence movement will only grow and having the social network is a very powerful tool to achieve that.

    43. Macart says:

      @Dcanmore
       
      Snap. local newspapers, books, magazines and assorted other commercial. Mac Monkeys of the world stand up and export to press optimised, bleeds checked and fonts properly embedded. 🙂 

    44. AlexMcI says:

      @ is brotherhood, you comrade must be a feckin legend . Seventeen cans of Guinness is bloody dangerous.

    45. Macart says:

      Gotta say, I haven’t seen hide nor hair down my way of any street level BT activity. Certainly bags of YES teams on the streets from Ayr to Stranraer.

    46. Marcia says:

      Sunday Herald front page:
      http://twitpic.com/d2hits
      I picked the wrong time to be in the South of England – its hot.

    47. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Angus McLellan-
       
      ‘In Ireland they have cars and driving licenses and MoTs and so on.’
       
      I hereby nominate the aforementioned Angus McLellan for ‘The WoS Award for Utterly Splendid Understatement’.
       
      Seconds?

    48. Dcanmore says:

      @Macart … that’s what I mean about a lack of grassroots from BT. I feel that’s why Gordo Broon set up ‘United With Labour’ to get the Labour support on the streets to campaign for BT. If it’s only YES you’re seeing on the streets then hopefully that tells you something.

    49. CameronB says:

      The assurance and matter of fact-ness of the statement has to be applauded. Seconded.

    50. Taranaich says:

      This may or may not be off-topic, though it is somewhat related to social media vs personal communication.
       
      Yesterday, I spent a lovely evening out with my best friend, who I’ve known since I was a teenager. We live in different towns now, and between my work and their studies, we don’t get much time to talk. However, with the referendum coming up, I was shocked to find that we both felt extremely strongly about the referendum… from opposing sides. They probably won’t be happy about me posting on this site (they consider Wings conspiracy theorists, thinks NewsNetScotland is Scotland’s Fox News, and didn’t seem to have much to say for Bella), but I can’t blame them: I couldn’t stand to read Better Together for any considerable length either.
       
      So for the first time, we decided to discuss the matter. While we both got extremely emotional and made many digs and critiques, I was pleased (though not surprised) to note that this was the most civil discussion I’ve ever had about the referendum, and they said the same. Perhaps it’s because we both implicitly trusted each other, and knew that whatever our differences in opinion, we were both honest and true in our beliefs that our affiliation was what was best for the people they love. Just as I feel remaining part of the Union will be dooming my family and friends to a life of hardship under the Tories, they feel exactly the same will happen with an Independent Scotland.
       
      My friend and I both refrain from discussing politics on the Internet, and this was true for myself until fairly recently, when I finally decided it was time for me to make my mark. But while I profoundly disagree with my friend’s conclusions and viewpoint (I won’t go into details to respect that privacy), I note that there are several points of commonality, as both of us want a great deal of change towards social equality and undoing the damage of austerity. I didn’t convince them, and they didn’t convince me, though if enough information comes to light, that could change for both of us.
       
      I guess what I’m saying is that the discussion between Aye and Naw is significantly damaged by human nature on the internet (normal person + anonymity + audience = bampot) and the ugly nature of UK politics, and from talking with my friend, I think it would be really good for the Aye and Naws to sit down and just talk with each other. Perhaps I’m being naive: after all, both of us have seen and supported each other at our very worst in the worst times in our lives, so of course we probably weren’t going to fall out even with this. But among the many things we agreed upon, we agreed that what matters is the people of Scotland really know what we’re in for, and make their choices from an informed position. Since we’ve both read a lot about the debate and still came to very different conclusions, I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience.
       
      Neither of us will likely talk about the referendum again in the foreseeable future, neither of us need the grief and anxiety. But I am glad we had the discussion, since it wasn’t so much that My Friend Is A Unionist that shocked me, but that two people with so much in common could have such incredibly different, equally passionate perspectives on one topic. Then again, the numpty actually liked Star Trek Into Darkness, which is clearly a far more serious strain on our relationship.

    51. Macart says:

      @Dcanmore
       
      Its on the turn. Don’t ask me why, I doubt I could point to anything verifiable, (which I hate, because I prefer quotable fact), but I have the feeling its starting to turn our way. 😉

    52. Tris says:

      turnbul drier says:
      13 July, 2013 at 9:25 pm

      @ianbrotherhood Where are the pics of the wall paper table? 
       
      I was going to ask that… but I see that they are top secret, classified and probably will only be see some 30 years in the future, when we are all too old to care!
       
      I do follow Wings Twitter Feed, but there are so many people I follow, I never have time to read all the posts, short though they are. Sorry your reverence.

    53. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Taranaich-
       
      Important, sincere testimony – would your friend feel able to contribute here?
       
      Is WoS such a hostile place?
       
      In any event, I hope you don’t lose yer pal.
       
       
       

    54. AlexMcI says:

      I dont know about mots an that in Ireland, but one of the boys I work with, wee Marty , well his family are all from the south, Marty stays that everyone in Ireland has a coo. He says if you have a coo you get a subsidy or something from the EU. He says they are all farmers, but they share the coo’s. don’t know if its gen up but I could believe that there’s some truth in it. It he Irish are brilliant at that kind of stuff.

    55. Training Day says:

      Central to the ever growing problems besetting Project Fear is the fact that not only do they lack a coherent grass roots presence, but those that are involved are mere apparatchiks with no real passion or conviction about what they say. Some apparatchiks – like Anne McLaughlin MSP – lack even a basic understanding of the issues at stake, as she blithely goes around campaigning to ‘keep Britain in the Union’ (a claim posted on her own website).

      Two months back I made a point of turning up bang on time at a supposed Project Fear gathering outside a venue in Bearsden. Not one person was there. In Bearsden, fer gawd’s sake.

    56. Angus McLellan says:

      @AlexMcl: A coo? No good. Wouldn’t get one on my balcony. A sheep though … I reckon this is about good enough to fool an EU inspector. How much does the EU pay for a sheep? If I knew when they were coming I could get more of those fake sheep and stick them over on Glasgow Green. Win!

    57. CameronB says:

      You need one of these if you live above the fourth floor. Animal right.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJfZ7xdGfQ

    58. AlexMcI says:

      @ Angus McClellan , perhaps you could do a bit of guinea pig farming then, from what I’ve been told there’s a right good earner in it.
       

    59. AlexMcI says:

      Think I also remember a story about a guy in Birmingham or somewhere had a seven foot alligator in their bath. Surely there’s a payment due for that, just for the sheer fucking brass neck.
       

    60. Kendomacaroonbar says:

      I heard of a Cork Dairy farmer who won an award for being out standing in his field ?
       
      I’ll get mah coat…

    61. uilleam_beag says:

      The full report makes interesting reading. It’s intriguing to note that virtually all the author’s tips on how the findings could be used to inform campaigning strategy are directed specifically at the yes camp.

    62. mato21 says:

      I hear BT qualify for a farm subsidy for all the goats they have

    63. uilleam_beag says:

      On the subject of grassroots campaigning, I was looking up the Better Together website to check for any upcoming events. Any idea how many they had listed?
       
      Three.
       
      That’s right, just three events happening in the whole of Scotland this entire summer. Oh, and one of them was in April. I’m currently on a tour of the country, talking to people engaging in the referendum debate, on both sides and none, and am seriously getting worried that the disparity between the amount of activity on the yes and no campaigns will leave me open to the charge of favouritism.

    64. Linda's back says:

      We should be challenging the BBC / MSM as to why they describe the Union flag waving bigots in Northern Ireland as Loyalists,particularly  in view of Edward Carson’s armed  rebellion against the democratic decision of the Westminster Parliament, rather than Unionists which would cause the NO Scotland campaign some embarrassment.
      Not that I would deny the majority in Northern Ireland the right to have their own independent country if they so wish.
       

    65. Angus McLellan says:

      @mato21: If it’s goats you want, have a look at that Youtube link CameronB posted earlier. Totally mental!

    66. mato21 says:

      Angus
      I saw it that’s where I ( goat) the idea from

    67. Macart says:

      @mato21
       
      Do you reckon they’d qualify  for specialist fishing subsidies in red herrings?…………………………..
       
      Tumbleweed.

    68. mato21 says:

      Macart
      What about haddies?
      We’ll be giving them ideas on how to raise funds if we’re not careful

    69. Yesitis says:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/alex-salmond-white-paper-william-mcilvanney
       
      Meanwhile… no vision, no hope, nothing – nothing but contempt. This is why Yes will win.
      https://twitter.com/daftquine/status/356191440038137856
       

    70. Macart says:

      @mato21
       
      Surely they’ll huv haddie-nuff helpful hints by now. 🙂

    71. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Some apparatchiks – like Anne McLaughlin MSP – lack even a basic understanding of the issues at stake, as she blithely goes around campaigning to ‘keep Britain in the Union’ (a claim posted on her own website).”

      Are you sure that’s the right name?

    72. mato21 says:

      Macart
      Like it  Collect a gold star and go to the top of the class!
       

    73. CameronB says:

      @ Marcia
      Fleg? Or if we’ve covered that one, what about feachs? (not sure if that is how it’s spelt).

    74. Midgehunter says:

       
      @ Macart
       
      @CameronB
       
      Prepress. Old fashioned designer/illustrator reduced to bashing buttons and file fixing these days.
       
      Started out cut and paste under old compugraphics and tail end of hot me
      —————————————-
      I’m probably one of the few readers who knows exactly what you’re on about.
      I spent many many years travelling round the world as an instructor for Hell pre-press systems. Started off with Hell scanners 399 /350 as well as the Chromacom system, recorders etc. Went with them when they went to Linotype and then on to Heidelberg. Every year new scanners, flatbeds, page make-up systems, conversions to Mac. Software troubleshooting was a speciality. We operated from the HQ in Kiel and then later from Frankfurt. There were about 6-7 different nationalities in the group and some very memorable piss-ups when we all happened to be in the country at the same time.
      We were not Mac monkys – we made them ….!  😉

    75. Macart says:

      Just sitting here with a fine 10yr old McCallan watching the directors cut of Aliens. Just got to the part where the excellent Bill Paxton is panicking like feck as the whole op goes pants big time. ‘What are we gonna do now man?, What are gonna do now?’ And I was just thinking, anyone heard from Blair McDougall since the project fear revelation? 🙂

    76. Macart says:

      @Midgehunter
       
      I know a few of those Linotype lads personally and spent some time at the Druchsmachinen AG in Heidelberg doing the Graphics course. Billy Blues ring a bell? 🙂
       
      Chap called Jurgen from Kiel did the course, one of Dr Hel’s lads. Good times.

    77. CameronB says:

      @ Macart
      Nice place for a break, sorry, to do your training. It must have been a drag.

    78. Macart says:

      @CameronB
       
      You know it was almost spooky that every day on the course I had a splitting headache and couldn’t stand direct sunlight. 😉

    79. Angus McLellan says:

      @RevStu: That’ll be Anne McTaggart.
      Training Day posted the link last year. The piece on her website has has been retconned to fix that and whoever runs McTaggart’s website for her is not stupid enough to let the Wayback machine cache old versions. So it never happened. Honest.

    80. The Water Beastie says:

      By emphasising the ‘despite politicians or the SNP’ angle, doesn’t the Herald’s piece dissociate the online activity of ‘cybernats’ from their mythical controllers in the SNP, for once?
      Free-thinking online people emphatically arguing for a Yes vote?  But why would they possibly do such an unthinkable thing, if they weren’t being orchestrated directly by His EckNess?!   Crivvens!!

    81. john king says:

      mcart says
      13 July, 2013 at 9:26 pm

      “If you really want to mess with their heads online we could start using Windtalkers.” 

        wow I’m impressed ,you can really talk shoshone?

    82. turnbul drier says:

      @ianbrotherhood
      I shall wait with baited breath 🙂
      I am intrigued concerning the space age Yes “booth” tho…

    83. Seasick Dave says:

      From Kevin McKenna’s column…
       
      Later, when we are driving back towards Castle Stuart golf club, host to the Scottish Open championship, Salmond seems unduly relieved that his speech seems to have gone well and seeks reassurance. I tell him that there was a rough 3:1 for independence among the chaps whom I encountered afterwards in the smoking hut. Overall-clad workers in the midst of their toils are not Salmond’s normal audience and perhaps he was worried about how he might have been perceived.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/alexsalmond-scottish-independence
       
      No comments allowed 🙂
       
       

    84. Doonfooter says:

      IanBrotherhood – good to meet you in Ayr High Street yesterday! Great to hear you guys also had a positive vibe going yesterday on the street. The Yes stall was very busy and we collected a good few signatures for the Yes Declaration. Good number of day trippers from Glasgow dropped by. Glad you liked the stand! There’s pics of the day on the Yes South Ayrshire Facebook page. I’d link but I’m on my pho be sorry. The Scottish folk music buskers across from us helped make a great atmosphere and there was a real sense that we can win this! 

    85. Simon says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23299556

      Douglas Fraser playing the “too stupid” card?

      “And when you look at his criticism of the UK tax system, it’s hard to see how they would not be applied also to the system that would be inherited by an independent Scotland.

      So when the Mirrlees recommendations are published, let’s see if they include a proposal to impose VAT on food, children’s clothes, books and newspapers, plus an extra tax on your gas central heating, and road tolls. And if they’re not there, why not?”

    86. Doonfooter says:

      Sorry that should have been South Ayrshire for Independence Facebook page in the photos section! Some good photos of the “space age” stall!

    87. macdoc says:

      Taranaich
      Interesting but quite depressing in my opinion that someone who was not apathetic and ignorant on the issue could come to a conclusion that is just plain wrong. I must assume he is a British Nationalist.

      To me its not really a debate when the bettertogether mob only have emotional attachment to the UK state and the rest is propaganda, scaremongering bullshit. Its a bit like in America where you get perfectly intelligent people (Not many) arguing that the earth and all its creatures were created within 6 days about 6000 years ago with dinosaurs coexisting with man but they are just hopelessly ignorant or brainwashed on a subject with closed minds that can never be opened to reality. 

      The argument that Independence would be better for Scotland isn’t a scientific argument with absolute proof. Predicting the future is always an extremely difficult task but when the evidence is so overwhelming that Scotland would be financially better off. We have one of the most right wing unfair, unbalanced Governments in Western democracy making our decisions where Scotland’s interests will never be prioritised then it becomes perverse to argue that Scotland’s interests lie in an unfair bullying union. 

    88. Macart says:

      @John King
       
      I was thinking more along the lines of a ‘toon’ equivalent, ken? 😀

    89. Erchie says:

      The problem with being all cheerful about the volume of online traffic being pro-Indy is that online is a fraction of social discourse.
       
      There is a thing doing the rounds today about a bad film on US TV, was much tweeted about, but got only 2/3 the expected ratings. High social media impact, ratings failure.
       
      The article then points out that a lot of what were thought of, on social media, as utterances that should have killed Romney in the last US election did nothing to the polls.
       
      This is how Labour Councillors shutting down YES campaigners from talking to folk will hurt, they’ll remain bereft of information and they will have no opportunity to make an informed choice.
       
      Winningthe Echo chamber is cool and all, but it isn’t everything

    90. Midgehunter says:

      @Macart
       
      “I know a few of those Linotype lads personally and spent some time at the Druchsmachinen AG in Heidelberg doing the Graphics course. Billy Blues ring a bell?
       
      Chap called Jurgen from Kiel did the course, one of Dr Hel’s lads. Good times.”
       
      “You know it was almost spooky that every day on the course I had a splitting headache and couldn’t stand direct sunlight.   ”
       
      Billy Blues does’nt ring a bell, I left the company when they moved the pre-press activities to Heidelberg and went into marketing / PR and motorsport organisation. I decided to stay in Frankfurt.
       
      You probably mean Jürgen Evers, blond guy with a moustash, bit on the quiet side, yea he was one of the gang.
       
      Sounds like you had “darkroom syndrome” or a lack of good beer ..  😉

    91. Training Day says:

      Whoops, yeah, Angus is right. It’s Anne McTaggart who’s campaigning to keep Britain in the Union. One too many malts last night 😉

    92. Taranaich says:

      @ianbrotherhood: You know, I actually broached the subject with my friend, but they didn’t think it would fly. I wasn’t sure myself. And I doubt I’ll lose my friend, though they have lost other friends because of this. Perhaps we’ve just been through too much together to let a little thing like the future of our nation and people get in the way!
       
      @macdoc: Oh believe me, my friend is NOT a Britnat. Indeed, part of the reason they want Scotland to remain in the UK is because they believe the Tories are a temporary problem (I… disagree), and that austerity is a trough of the peaks & troughs of capitalism, albeit woefully miscalculated in this instance. They genuinely believe that change is coming, UK wide, and that we just have to hold out the storm. All I can say is in the event of a No vote, I pray they’re right, and that someone like Owen Jones wrests control of the Labour party from Milliband and the rUK goes for them instead of UKIP, and Devomax is finally on the table – not my first choice, but infinitely preferable to what’s currently on offer. I just don’t think that’s going to happen.



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