Weir’s No Way
The Electoral Commission appears to have missed yet another deadline for publishing the SNP’s 2019 accounts (we’re waiting on them to return our phone call), so we’ve got a moment to talk about something else relating to the party’s finances.
[EDIT 12.56pm: the Commission now “hopes” to have the accounts published “in the next three weeks” along with those of the other main Westminster parties.]
The Scottish press covered itself in as much disgrace over the publication of the will of lottery winner Colin Weir after his tragic death last year as it had done during his life. Pretty much every paper in the country ran lurid headlines about how he’d “blown” or “burned” (translation: spent) half of his £80m share of the 2011 jackpot in nine years.
Weirdly, the Scottish Sun and the Daily Mail stood out for (mainly) respectful coverage focused on the fact that Colin Weir had in fact used most of the money on good causes and generous support for friends, family and strangers.
(Also, both of the Weirs were fairly old and already in quite poor health when they won the money, so why wouldn’t they spend it? You famously can’t take it with you.)
But the Mail was almost unique in the fact that its headline mentioned something that seemed to stand out as the most obviously newsworthy aspect of the will.
For many years after their win, Colin Weir and his then-wife Chris had been the biggest bankrollers of the SNP in the party’s history, donating over £4.5m to the party as well as £1m to the Yes campaign.
But even though Colin died with £41m in the bank, and had made extensive advance preparations for his death, including a spectacular £1m lobsters-and-champagne wake for his pals in Largs, he didn’t leave a single penny to the SNP.
Wings had of course told its readers about the rumoured rift between the Weirs and the party, and the reasons for it, many months ago:
But it’s still quite startling that someone who’d been a lifelong member, activist and even candidate, and who had such a demonstrably generous spirit, had become so far estranged that even on his deathbed there was no gesture of reconciliation.
And what’s even more startling is that the Scottish press, who’ve treated both the SNP and the Weirs with such utter contempt for almost a decade, didn’t make a big deal out of it. Colin Weir died almost nine months ago now, so enough time has passed that it wouldn’t even have been ghoulish or tasteless – the post-mortem snub is a legitimately noteworthy news event in its own right.
Yet other than the odd half-hearted attack for the sake of appearances, the Scottish media has for months now noticeably formed a protective circle around the leadership of Nicola Sturgeon. It’s absolutely clear that given the atrocious state of the opposition parties, which shows no sign of changing any time soon, the Unionist establishment considers a Sturgeon government the least-bad of the achievable options.
And perhaps the SNP don’t need Colin Weir’s money. Perhaps when the months-late accounts ARE finally published, whenever that might be, they’ll show a party in rude financial health, ready to fight a referendum campaign at a moment’s notice with all the “ring-fenced” money it raised in 2017-19.
Perhaps that’s why the story has barely registered – because the SNP has so much cash that it simply doesn’t need bequests from the richest independence supporters in the country. We’re sure we’ll find out at some point.
because the SNP has so much cash that it simply doesn’t need bequests from the richest independence supporters in the country.
Aye, right!
Really struggling with the concept of maintaining my membership (after more than 30 years)
Sturgeon doesn’t attract donations. After all most of the SNP woke are no doubt a bit skint. That’ll change when all these parachuted woke candidates get to Holyrood and start getting the salary that goes with it.
Not that any of it will go to party funds. Self-absorbed people are in it for themselves when all’s said and done and their cherished ideals are merely a veneer.
Yes the articles about Weir were despicable. That such a generous human being should neglect the party in the will tells a tale. I take it his wife wasn’t so keen on independence as he was or is equally fed up. How long can they get away with not publishing the accounts though? Surely there is a limit.
@ Garavelli Princep: for heaven’s sake stay in and get your branch talking and acting on all the things that are wrong. That’s what is happening in my branch.
Garavelli : I couldn’t agree more. Should we form a black hand gang ?
Wrote to yusuf re his idiotic bill, obviously he didn’t deign to reply.
” I take it his wife wasn’t so keen on independence as he was or is equally fed up.”
Very much the latter, I’m told.
“How long can they get away with not publishing the accounts though? Surely there is a limit.”
COVID is the excuse for everything these days. Apparently the Electoral Commission is pretty short-staffed, even though you’d imagine most of its duties would comprise paperwork that could be done perfectly adequately by people working from home.
The Daily Record are a shower of bastards,
The Weirs were most generous of people,he gave Partick Thistle to the fans , spent money on and in the community, their foundation investing
These trash rags should be ashamed
PS didn’t leave anything to the SNP?….of course not he saw what they were spending it on
GP at 11.50am: ‘Really struggling with the concept of maintaining my membership’..
I had no such qualms a few months ago. The only regret I had was that there are some good people in the SNP but, as Muhammad Ali (roughly) put it on Parkinson; if 10,000 rattle snakes were attacking me, and one thousand of those snakes didn’t want to attack me, should I trust that the 1000 will protect me from the bad guys?
Some are suggesting keeping their membership, ‘to fight from within’ and while that’s an honourable approach, I’m not confident. The current SNP simply don’t smell sweet enough for my trust to stretch that far.
Let’s see those books.
The Electoral Commission showed that the Weirs donated the sum of £500 000 to the SNP to help the party fight the 2017 Westminster election. No wonder they became dismayed given how Sturgeon messed-up that campaign and her subsequent refusal to battle for an indyref.
If he left them money it could have gone to Murrell’s next pay rise.
The UK press and all those associated with it are a disgrace to humanity.
Here’s a radical idea. Laddie Macbeth a.k.a. Peter Murrell could bankroll the party. Although it wouldn’t be so much a donation as the SNP getting reimbursed.
Lie most people on here I have lost faith in the SNP from being full of hope and promise I now feel betrayed all the enthusiasm and hope I had has gone yes among the saddest words ever written or spoken is What might have been ???
Political parties with no dosh? Bring it on, then press the democratic restart.
At last somebody’s noticed my end of the age spectrum!
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/23/we-need-a-youthquake-against-these-covid-measures/
Richter reading currently 4.5, but severe shocks expected. Possibility of tsunami.
‘even though you’d imagine most of its duties would comprise paperwork that could be done perfectly adequately by people working from home‘
Some companies do seem to have problems about safety of info GDPR when employees work from home, though some, including some councils manage fine for even temporary staff. Covid is getting blamed for everything and a useful excuse for the duration but I’d have still thought for political parties, not far from elections, there would be a deadline for any extension even under these circumstances.
Sarah says:
23 September, 2020 at 12:00 pm
@ Garavelli Princep: for heaven’s sake stay in and get your branch talking and acting on all the things that are wrong. That’s what is happening in my branch.
Hmm. A group of us tried questioning the accounts at constituency level a couple of years ago – there were some discrepancies we wanted aired, after all it was members money that was being spent (and to our mind, wasted). All it got us was vilification from those who follow blindly to the point where the atmosphere became toxic. Finally left (as did a number of other activists) when we realised we were getting nowhere. I don’t envy those who hope to reform the party from within while those at the top continue to be either involved, or turn a blind eye.
The Rev’s report on SNP funding sources showed a massive dependence on WM “Short money”. I’m just curious: does anyone know if Short money is made available to MPs who are elected but refuse to sit in the HoC? eg. do Sinn Fein get any?
If not, there’s a powerful reason right there for the SNP to continue in attendance at the House of Horrors. They can’t afford to leave!
BritNat MSM circling the wagons around NS can mean only mean one thing…
She’s not one of us, she’s one of them.
As for Mr Weir, yet another example of “I didn’t leave the Party, the Party left me”.
Do the SNP even do any fundrasing? Like the “Scottish” Conservatives were just short ago, shooting emails out left, right and south east england? I dunno. I’m also struggling to think of reasons why the contents of 1 dead Weir’s will is either news or article worthy? I’m guessing he left the rest to his other half?
Kenny @,12.12pm :- I still pay my SNP membership and also have a DD to my local branch also, anything to fight the rat that is DRoss!!
At the expense of copy and paste here is a piece from Iain Lawson’s Yours For Scotland blog.
It provides details of the group that has been set up to change the current SNP leadership’s inertial and utterly flawed strategy for pursuing (?) independence,
Snp members for Indy facebook group has been set up with the explicit purpose of changing the party’s policy on the preferred route to independence.
Why is this necessary ? The answer has at least 3 parts.
1. Westminster Refusal of S30 request: It is evident to a growing percentage of active members that the preferred Section 30 process has a success probability of close to zero. Either the westminster government will continue to refuse a section 30 request, or in the highly unlikely scenario where they do accept a request, will use the powers of the British state to negatively affect the outcome and aftermath of a referendum.
2. S30 is an illegitimate route to independence: That the “colonial power” should have no involvement in the independence process of the former colony is an accepted tenet of international law, and furthermore has been fully recognised by the UK government, notably in the aftermath of the Balkan conflict.
3. The SNP’s policy making process lacks democracy and favours the status quo: SNP policy is “made in conference”, but the party’s internal controls severely restrict genuine policy debate, by preventing discussion of real alternatives to S30. There is no shortage of alternative proposals based on accepted international law and sovereignty, but these are unlikely to be discussed at conference because of the party hierarchy’s unseeing adherence to S30.
SNPmembers4Indy aims to change party policy on this key issue by developing the ideas behind alternative routes to independence and creating one or a number of proposals for better routes to independence which can be proposed and debated at the 2020 conference – as yet unscheduled.
This group, restricted to SNP party members, needs to have genuine critical mass in order for this plan to succeed. So if you are an SNP member concerned like I am about independence then please join this group and contribute to the debate. If you are not on Facebook then please email admin@snpmembers4indy.scot to play a part in the process.
So, for all the disenchanted members who want change register your support by emailing if you are not on Facebook. Else –
Links to the Group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/snpmembers4indy
Polly says:
23 September, 2020 at 12:34 pm
“Some companies do seem to have problems about safety of info GDPR when employees work from home, though some, including some councils manage fine for even temporary staff. ”
The problems will be technical. I’ve been working from home since March and the system is actually MORE secure, which I didn’t think possible.
“does anyone know if Short money is made available to MPs who are elected but refuse to sit in the HoC? eg. do Sinn Fein get any?”
They do not.
lawrenceab @12:38 Short Money is not available to parties whose members have not sworn the Oath of Allegiance (such as Sinn Féin) because it was introduced to offer assistance for ‘parliamentary duties’.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Money#Recipients
The science says, “we’re all doomed” or GIGO, garbage in, garbage out.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/23/the-revenge-of-the-experts/
Meanwhile virologists, not a media sexy métier, quietly get on with the not so media friendly ‘real science’, the intellectually cool stuff.
An epidemiologist is someone who dicks around making computer models based on data collected by others, which may or may not be reliable, but why ruin a good model with accurate data.
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/05/08/so-the-real-scandal-is-why-did-anyone-ever-listen-to-this-guy/
I let my membership run out. I may rejoin when I see some formal recognition of reduced membership and income, and consideration of the causes of these. When the next conference happens perhaps a delegate will raise this.
“And perhaps the SNP don’t need Colin Weir’s money. Perhaps when the months-late accounts ARE finally published, whenever that might be, they’ll show a party in rude financial health, ready to fight a referendum campaign at a moment’s notice with all the “ring-fenced” money it raised in 2017-19.
Perhaps that’s why the story has barely registered – because the SNP has so much cash that it simply doesn’t need bequests from the richest independence supporters in the country. We’re sure we’ll find out at some point.”
And I’m Santa Claus, the Electoral Commission either know the SNP are skint and prolonging the inevitable or the SNP are using delaying tactics.
Either way the SNP don’t have a pot to piss in to fight an indyref.
@ Beaker
Yes I know quite a few, including family, who’ve been working from home like you since then too in IT/media/council environments and no problems, and technical issues can be resolved for many companies. One I know changed their servers and the increase in speed for some things like complex queries which were already quick for those with good internet access still made a difference, but to those with less good internet it seemed a revelation, quicker they said that when in the office. But still I’d say some companies don’t always trust their employees, and old fashioned though it may be, especially with equipment supplied by employers pre loaded with security software, some still believe they need to physically overlook their staff, panopticon fashion, to get the full days work from them and ensure they aren’t doing things they shouldn’t. Many higher managers, even in the IT sector, may have great managerial skills but are sometime lacking in the principal skills of the companies they help run.
Even an army of highly skilled investigative journalists and private investigators wouldnt be able to penetrate the protective circle around sturgeon.
Check out the difficulties Stu and Craig Murray have had. That leads to the only credible conclusion that the SNP SG are highly protected by the British secret service.
Sturgeon being the unions safest bet, means that keeping her in power for as long as possible is now the goal of the british state.
The enemies of Scottish Independence are hard at work in the SNP Scottish Government.
‘does anyone know if Short money is made available to MPs who are elected but refuse to sit in the HoC? eg. do Sinn Fein get any?”
They do not.’
Did Gerry Adams hold down a proper job all those years? Same with the new ones, how are they able to represent their constituents? Staying away from Westminster hasn’t done them any harm as a party and the one thing they cannot be accused of it becoming part of the enemy, or enjoying a cushy lifestyle in Westminster.
WOW! This site has certainly quickly attracted the Yooniverse disciples who you used to see on The Scotsman and The Herald. “Im a life long SNP supporter but…”
Stuart you keep demanding transparency and truthful information regarding the SNP, and the Scottish Government.
Things are certainly a wee bit smelly right now. Show me a government that does not have its share of skeletons and bad smells.
However by the same yardstick, do you publish your accounts and show us how you are funding your latest anti Sturgeon campaign?
You’ve said there is to be no fundraising this year. You cannot do the research and publishing you do, running on oatmeal and water, so do tell.
Have the spooks got to you. Did they find something in your waste bins?
Sinn Fein’s MPs apparently received £290,000 in public funding in2018-19. This was some £120,000 in office costs and expenses, and £170,000 in party maintenance costs.
Although they do not take their seats, they have offices in Westminster. Paul Maskey, one of their MPs told the Guardian: “As MPs, therefore, we take no part in the Westminster parliament but in every other way we provide active representation for our constituents.
“We engage with British political parties, civic society and the Irish diaspora in Britain. We challenge the British government directly in our meetings with them. We lobby on constituents’ issues, and on all the political matters that affect the Irish people.”
Novelist and illustrator, Alasdair Gray switched back to Labour from SNP a couple of years before his death, appalled SNP had cold-shouldered him for publishing his seminal essay “Settlers and Colonists”, and not lambasted the vicious critics who attacked him as a racist and a bigot.
SNP officials praised Gray’s achievements hearing of his death.
Today, some UK government officials talk openly of the British Empire’s sad history of colonialism, but in Scotland, we are told to zip it.
“Have the spooks got to you. Did they find something in your waste bins?”
You got warned once, Dunc. Piss off.
“Sinn Fein’s MPs apparently received £290,000 in public funding in2018-19. This was some £120,000 in office costs and expenses, and £170,000 in party maintenance costs.”
Indeed, but not Short Money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Money#:~:text=Short%20Money%20is%20not%20available,assistance%20for%20'parliamentary%20duties‘.&text=This%20is%20calculated%20on%20the%20same%20terms%20as%20Short%20Money.
No quite sure where this line of investigation is going M,lud
ie whats the bleedn point ?
Sturgeon has been disarming Scotland while the Tories are strong-arming Scotland.
Ergo, she’s one of two things;
1. She’s an incompetent feartie.
2. She’s an active agent of the British state.
Some of my best friends are dead folk,,,,, here let me just ask them…….
The hubris of scientism
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18741373.virus-expert-new-curbs-scotland-england-not-enough/
And the horrible history of ‘science’. I.e when the high priests got it very wrong…to our cost.
https://climatechangedispatch.com/politicized-science-dangerous/
Grouse beater: that essay by Alasdair Gray, himself half-English, was the very epitome of truthfulness as regards Scotland woeful cultural/educational/enviromental/commercial/land interests – almost all in the hands of people furth of Scotland or originally furth of Scotland.
This infatuation with opening up Scotland to everyone but the Scots, with the pandering to rUK NO voters and avoiding any reality where the colonial mindset squats, will be the downfall, eventually, of the SNP. They seem incapable of appreciating that you can you can be a welcoming and multi cultural society whilst protecting your own culture, heritage, etc, as the fundamental basis for your society.
While I have no time for racist nonsense, there are evenings when I switch on the TV that I actually think I am in England, so prevalent are the English accents and so lacking are the Scottish ones. I can think of no other country on the planet that behaves in this self-harming and self-defeating way. It seems that, in Scotland, to be overtly Scottish is somehow equated with being anti English, and I find that very disturbing.
I didn’t know the Weirs, but I did know that they were a very generous and decent pair and their petty and childish treatment by the Scottish media was despicable. I did wonder at their seeming break from the SNP.
I simply remember that on 8th December 2016 it was reported that Nicola Sturgeon turned down point blank Theresa May’s offer of a referendum after Brexit was over
It’s been downhill ever since. Mr Salmond’s debacle has finished me with Sturgeon completely unless something totally unthought of turns up to make her less guilty.
Grouse – The cultural colonisation of Scotland started straight after the union. It picked up pace during the wars. To the extent that people in Edinburgh started talking in English accents.
Don’t get me wrong , it was only the posher parts of Edinburgh. But these are often the people with the power and the voices on TV and radio.
What other country in the world, would have the biggest arts festival , but never have employed a Scottish director in it’s 70 years! Then there is Scottish Ballet, Opera e.t.c. I can’t recall ever hearing a Scots accent in these orgnisations.
If you went through all the governing bodies and boards of national organisations. You would find an Englishman running at least 60% of these. The problem isn’t that we don’t like diversity. The problem is that one nation has taken over Scotland’s cultural life.
Why do Scots not get these jobs? It should be a prerequisite when holding a mirror to our on culture.
@kapelmeister, 2.40
It looks like option 1 to me. Scotland has an autonomous Health Service and internationally recognised expertise in the medical sciences. Why follow the advice from the UK minister Hancock and the SAGE committee? Why not make use of home grown knowledge? Like Professor Mark Woolhouse, Chair of Infectious Disease Epidemiology of the University of Edinburgh
Why not make use of experience in Europe? The following is a quote from an open letter from 200 Belgian doctors to the Belgian Government
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/
I am used to the fb censorship with regards to posting anything re Wings or Murray.
Today I had a new one. One which was not present on a friend’s phone or in the library computer.
I looked for an ‘Iranian minced lamb recipe’ and the phone refused to respond. Lots of other recipes. Other platforms, no problem.
Just a hint of what is heading towards us.
PS for the trolls, I do not need a recipe. Just showing what is happening.
Soon to be barred : any mention of WoS or Murray et al.
I see that that the Harassment and Complaints Committee have published another letter from Barbara Allison after she gave evidence on 15th September ,
https://www.parliament.scot/HarassmentComplaintsCommittee/20200921BarbaraAllisontoConvener.pdf
And I see that the Herald have picked up on it with the Headline “ Alex Salmond inquiry witness back pedals over ‘ conspiracy ‘ text message “ .
https://archive.vn/vwZ8T
@Bryan Weir
“Good question, a very good question…”
A very good question indeed. Because the accounts of Stu’s personal blog are almost exactly the same as the official accounts of the party governing Scotland. In fact the two are pretty much identical.
Here’s another very good question:
“Is your head composed almost entirely of skull?”
I know this is O/T but I couldn’t resist a wee peek at the 2018 accounts.
I daresay that the delay may, just possibly, be due to the fact that the accounts are audited. An audit may require a site visit to inspect original documentation. Mind you, I have been away from public accounting in the UK for nineteen years. Things may have changed and a review of electronic files may be acceptable. However, before we solely blame the SNP for late delivery of accounts, consideration should be given to the possibility that the auditors may be delaying issuance of their report.
Incidentally, in the 2018 accounts, the auditor’s signature and address are redacted. Why? In the old days (and currently in the USA), the signature was that of the firm. Has that changed? The table of contents also redacts Johnston Carmichael’s address and the name and address of their bankers. The redaction at page 20 also looks awfully strange.
How much is supposed to be ring-fenced? If it was $482,000 or so, as suggested in the linked article in the post, I suppose it could be included in Note 21 on page 32 of the 2018 accounts. If one knew what the Accounting Units were, that is something that could, possibly, be reconciled. The accounts for all Accounting Units would have to be available and sufficient detail would need to be included in the notes to the AUs’ accounts.
Big Jock 3:05
Yep try getting a job in say America , firstly it has to be shown by your prospective employer that the post has been advertised locally and no suitable candidate can be found ,
Then comes the various hurdles ,the proposed overseas candidate has to prove they won’t be a burden on either the state or federal government , they must be of good standing and have no criminal record or outstanding warrants pending ,
I doubt very much if they would be even considered for any administrative post in any organisation that had a cultural base (ie) influencing the general public by their methodes or actions eg reds under the bed , yet we allow these positions to be given to what is basically people from a different cultural background diversity is one thing diluting Scottish culture is entirely not fkn on in My humble opinion.
o/t
very good item by WGD regarding Bawjaws government , dose not miss the target .
@Big Jock says:
23 September, 2020 at 3:05 pm
“Why do Scots not get these jobs? It should be a prerequisite when holding a mirror to our on culture.”
That breaches employment legislation. Race / ethnic background cannot be used to discriminate an application.
The BBC really is a disgrace. Every interview it littered with why are you not following England or our pm boris
Every interview!!
And at no point is nicola saying because he is a fanny and lost the plot, at no point is she pointing out the higher death rate in england
We could follow Norway Ireland anywhere except England and the usa
Why do England not follow us we are doing better
After independence I want there journalists in court to explain their nonsence
Big Jock – fair haired Scots with blue eyes, perhaps?
@Big Jock 3:05
When I first came to Beijing 12 years ago I was gobsmacked to discover that the Head of the Scottish Affairs Office in the British Embassy of the fastest growing and one of the biggest economies in the world was a guy called Phil something, a charming Welshman who had quite literally never lived a day of his life in Scotland.
And I’m sorry to say that that is the gospel truth.
the art of watering down the thinnest of gruel is alive and well…….
@Alex Lomax 3:52
“Big Jock – fair haired Scots with blue eyes, perhaps?”
Are you one of these smug eejits that takes a perverse pride in the fact that there has never been a Scottish Director of the Edinburgh Festival – fair haired or otherwise?
That was what I took from Big Jock’s post. But hey – why miss an opportunity to wheel out the “rascists facists and Nazi’s” accusations
@Beaker 3:45
“Race / ethnic background cannot be used to discriminate an application…”
I dunno Beaker. It seems to do a pretty good job of keeping Scots out of all those lovely juicy “Scottish” quango posts.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
23 September, 2020 at 12:59 pm
‘“does anyone know if Short money is made available to MPs who are elected but refuse to sit in the HoC? eg. do Sinn Fein get any?”
They do not.’
They do though get Representative Money – which is a parallel scheme for parties whose members don’t swear the oath.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01663/
“Pretty much every paper in the country ran lurid headlines about how he’d “blown” or “burned” (translation: spent) half of his £80m share of the 2011 jackpot in nine
Really? Can’t see anything of those kind of headlines in the Herald, Scotsman, Courier or Evening Times.
So if the SNP accounts (2019) show that they’re in financial trouble and they certainly didn’t look too healthy here.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-government-payroll/
One wonders how on earth they’re going to fight a Scottish election, never mind an independence referendum ( though the opposition is poor) however former minister Marco Biagi hits out Dark Money within the SNP.
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,former-minister-marco-biagi-calls-on-snp-to-clamp-down-on-dark-money-donations
We know the Tories are awash with Dark Money donations, and that the Electoral Commissions pursuit of finding out where the money came from petered out without any real insight into it. one can only hope that the SNP hasn’t travelled down that particular road. Time will surely tell, and the EC’s SNP accounts might give us an insight into whether or not they’re already on that road, if they ever produce them.
According to the Sunday Times Rich List, there are 48 individuals in the UK who donated more than £200,000 to political parties
43 of them donated to the Tories.
One of the other 5 donors, an Asian gentlemen was heard to say:
‘I flom Hong Kong. I no like Toly pahty.’
“One of the other 5 donors, an Asian gentlemen was heard to say:
‘I flom Hong Kong. I no like Toly pahty.’”
Oneliner.
Don’t come in here with your casual racism BS, take it elsewhere.
“very good item by WGD regarding Bawjaws government , dose not miss the target”
Don’t tell me, let me guess – they’re bad, right?
“However, before we solely blame the SNP for late delivery of accounts, consideration should be given to the possibility that the auditors may be delaying issuance of their report.”
As far as I can gather the bottleneck is at the Electoral Commission.
“the Scottish media has for months now noticeably formed a protective circle around the leadership of Nicola Sturgeon… the Unionist establishment considers a Sturgeon government the least-bad of the achievable options.”
Yip. The condition attached to that involved selling the indy movement and indy idea itself down the river, which she done. For Sturgeon it was simply a question of where to put the emphasis.
It was very predictable (and predicted) that this would happen.
If people on the indy side weren’t so gullible or “loyal” towards the SNP, and those are pretty much interchangeable terms, none of this would have been possible.
History grinds on under the weight of all this bullshit and here we are watching the gullible party loyalists sticking their heads in their asses again rather than admit they were wrong.
Lying and scheming politicians are everywhere. They don’t bother me in the least. It’s the unquestioning stupidity of those that follow them that bothers me.
Duncan Macniven @ 2:12
FFS…
Even Stevie Wonder could see that there’s something seriously wrong with the SNP under NS and Murrell.
Or is the depth at which your head is stuck up your backside preventing you from having a clear view?
Jog on… despite how difficult that must be given your adopted posture.
“Don’t tell me, let me guess – they’re bad, right?”
Although he’s stating the bleedin obvious, there’s no harm in calling out the deficiencies of one of the most ruthless Tory governments ever to hold power.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
23 September, 2020 at 4:29 pm
“As far as I can gather the bottleneck is at the Electoral Commission.”
How interesting. I wonder why the EC needs to delay publication when Companies House does not. Are they carrying out some sort of a review before publication? If so, how deep is this review? (By “Review,” I mean in the general sense, rather than its narrow meaning in accounting and attestation terminology.)
I’m in two minds over Sturgeon because of the one point I’ve made on this site a few times:
Yes, I’d like her to be bolder but we got well-and-truly gubbed in 2014 and we sank weeping into the gutter. At least, that’s how it felt.
The only reason we have a chance of indyref2 is because of Brexit and that’s not played out yet. Sturgeon could not do a deal with May because then Sturgeon and SNP would be attacked as the ones who brought about Brexit, just as SNP are attacked (wrongly) from bringing in Thatcher.
It’s painfully slow but I don’t see what else she could do?
Wee Ginger Dug knows his audience and who pays the bills.
He tells them what they desperately want to hear. Anything bar the unpleasant truth of what is happening within the party. Labour bad.Tories bad. Lib Dems bad.
That’s as far as he gets. He either doesn’t know the truth or he turns a blind eye. This from the man who wants a “fairer” Scotland.
That can only happen if you are governed by a “fairer” party.
@Republicofscotland
There’s a lot worse on here than ‘casual racism’. For the most part, it doesn’t appear to go ‘elsewhere’.
@Gregory Beekman
She is supposed to be leading the campaign for Independence. There has been no good time to have a Referendum because she has done virtually nothing create one.
Her two contributions since 2014 were attending an AUOB rally, conveniently just before GE19 and the, let’s be generous, ‘flawed’ Sustainable Growth Commission.
One can become FM by being leader of the SNP, being leader of the SNP requires more than being FM.
SNP Members for Indy.
Who’d have thought it. Labour for Indy, but SNP for Indy when they’re supposed to be the Indy party. Maybe tells you why Colin Weir lost heart in the party leadership. He was maybe just ahead of so many more of us.
Meanwhile as a good party loyalist I’m off to see who I can get jailed. Corruption, malice, vile as it comes, is my stock in trade. I’m a Sturgeonista!
Gregory Beekman: “ we got well-and-truly gubbed in 2014 and we sank weeping into the gutter. ”
That’s an odd thing to say. Suspiciously odd. I don’t know anyone that thinks we got grubbed like that in 2014.
Most people think we would have won if it wasn’t for the lying and cheating that went on in the media.
As I said, suspiciously odd.
@The Dissident
And do what exactly?
Do you believe Sturgeon should have taken over from Salmond and then immediately announced a plan for indyref2???
If not, how long should she have waited before announcing it???
Sorry its OT so soon, but interesting to note that Boris Johnson, uk prime minister is the first one to openly admit the potential and possibilities for making a profit for his government By using a pandemic worldwide heath issue. By extortion and extortionate fines.
Meanwhile we wait to follow and see whom pays whom for vaccines, it’s all about profits, dark money, and mates.
@Hatuey
“Suspiciously odd”??????????
I don’t know how you felt when we lost, but I felt kicked in the guts and inconsolable. Tell me someone who voted Yes and didn’t feel that way?
Yes, the lies robbed us of victory and those lies got us well-and-truly gubbed. Just what the HELL is “suspiciously odd” about the fact we lost?????
And here’s some more question marks, just for emphasis: ????????????????????????????????????????????????
I meant:
Just what the HELL is “suspiciously odd” about saying the fact that we lost?????
Gregory Beekman @4:44 pm
“What was Sturgeon supposed to do when Salmond lost us the indyref!”
When Yes lost the indyref, the indyref chance which Salmond engineered, Sturgeon, if she’d been a much better person and patriot, could have said ‘carry on Eck, you’ll get us there, we were only 5% short’.
Instead, personally ambitious Team Sturgeon/Murrell just had to invoke the Champanny Inn agreement and get her into Bute Hoose.
As for losing the indyref Gregory. I’ll point out that all during the campaign Alex Salmond was FM in the Scottish Government and making an infinitely better job of it than the current incumbent is. While Sturgeon and her SNP woke pal Sommerville were on the board of Yes Scotland.
The dissident says
Which AUOB rally was that she attended?
It certainly wasn’t any of the marches, not even coming out of the Parliament to wave to us on the Edinburgh one.
Maybe she can’t walk too far in her peerie heels.
@kapelmeister
Maybe she did ask Eck to stay? I don’t know what conversations they had before he resigned. But anyway, he resigned.
So after Sturgeon took over, what was she supposed to do? Stand up, say “we lost but let’s re-run the indyref next September?”.
The mood on Wings comments this past while seems to be that if only Salmond still ran the show, he’d have held and won indyref2 by now. Utter nonsense. Salmond is no fool and would have had to sit and wait and bide his time before launching a new campaign.
“most of its duties would comprise paperwork that could be done perfectly adequately by people working from home.”
Yes Rev, but the paperwork gets sent to the office and they’re not able to go and pick it up… 😀
@John Jones
Apols. It wasn’t an AOUB rally, it was the one organised by The National in November 2019.
Perhaps the EC are having some kind of problem not dissimilar to that described here?:
http://www.harrowell.org.uk/blog/2020/05/22/the-independent-group-envoi/
@kapelmeister
You said “As for losing the indyref Gregory. I’ll point out that all during the campaign Alex Salmond was FM in the Scottish Government and making an infinitely better job of it than the current incumbent is.”
Well, technically, as far as independence goes that’s not strictly true, since Salmond, although he did a great job over the long term, did not manage to get Yes support above 45%.
Sturgeon, on the other hand, whether you agree with her or not, whether you support her or not, and whether you think she’s done a good job of representing the entirety of the Scottish people as First Minister (and let’s not forget her job as FM IS to represent all of Scotland, not just SNP supporters and not just Yes supporters)has, according to multiple polls, now got that support well above 50%.
And that’s without running a campaign for independence. Now admittedly support for independence has risen at least partially as a result of the total cock-up on Covid-19 (and, less so, Brexit) from London, but the fact remains that support for independence is now higher than it has ever been. And given that’s a metric for success of any leader of the SNP then it stands to reason you can’t say she’s done a bad job of capitalising to increase support for independence.
@Stonky says:
23 September, 2020 at 4:09 pm
“I dunno Beaker. It seems to do a pretty good job of keeping Scots out of all those lovely juicy “Scottish” quango posts.”
While we’re at it, what about Mike Russell’s position? Why isn’t a Scottish MSP holding his job? Or does he come under the “privileged” category?
@Cod
Great points!
Cod
Sturgeon’s done a great job of not capitalising on the rise in support for indy.
@ Cod: I was reading a post on here yesterday, written by the Rev in June 2020 in which he analysed the independence polling before and since the 2014 vote. I was looking for it because of the number of people who believe that support for indy has increased because of Nicola and because of covid.
That post showed support for Yes reached 54% in June 2016 because of the Brexit result. It then dropped again to 51% in May 2017, 49% Sept 2018, 52% in Feb and June 2020 [latter was when D Cummings broke covid rules. This month Survation gives Yes 53%.
Those figures suggest to me that Nicola’s leadership hasn’t done a great deal to increase Yes support. Especially when coupled with her saying that she won’t do anything “until the economic effects of covid have been dealt with”; and that anything but s30 route is “illegal”; and telling Joanna Cherry that talking of other routes is above her pay grade.
I used to think that the top of the SNP had plans and systems in place to recover Scotland’s position as a nation state. I now think it is for the members and wider Yes movement to insist and to organise.
Please see the new facebook snpmembers4indy and join.
Kapelmeister
While I may not totally disagree with that it still doesn’t mean your original comment was correct. On the metric of increasing support for independence, the period where Sturgeon has been in charge has seen an unarguable increase in support for independence, and at much higher levels than Salmond ever managed. Therefore arguing Salmond did an infinitely better job is, at best, subjective.
With regard to the point about her doing a great job of not capitalising on that increase in support, I’ll ask you the same as I ask everyone else: what would you have had her do?
A Section 30 will always be rejected, from the day after the indy ref until the end of the Sun’s lifecycle, particularly as support for independence rises.
A declaration of UDI is pointless and doomed to failure, since without an S30 the non SNP controlled Councils in Scotland will simply refuse to participate. A referendum where only a percentage of your population can take part is illegitmate in the worst way.
A court case to determine the requirement for an S30 may be an option, but I would argue that the Courts would simply determine that it’s a political matter and should not be dealt with in a court. We’ll be able to see about that with the current court case brought by Martin Keatings. Even worse will be if the court rules that ScotGov do need an S30 to proceed.
There may have been the possiblity of a deal with the Tories before the previous election, but to be honest the idea makes my skin crawl, and that of many people I know. Regardless, as I mentioned at the time it was suggested, Johnson was never going to entertain it in a year of Sundays so it was always a non-starter. He knows his audience in England and he knew he’d win an election and had no need of SNP support.
I’m not sure what other options there are at this point.
@Sarah
I’d beg to differ: 45% to 53% is a massive increase, when 45% is the highest figure that has evern been seen for independence support prior to the referendum. And it’s been mostly stable for the last few months.
Additionally, a more accurate read on actual percentages is to average polls across a time period (or compare figures on comparable polls with questions which broadly match) rather than looking at individual polls. Regardless, the fact is that under Sturgeon, support for independence, across all polls, and averaged, does not appear to have dropped below 50%, which is remarkable.
Let’s not forget, 50.1% is the winning number in a referendum…
@Sarah
I have submitted a request to the group, so I can have a look. I’m genuinely interested in seeing what ideas people have for moving forward 🙂
@ Cod: the Rev’s post did give averages as well. The polls in the official referendum campaign period averaged 46%. The 76 polls since average 46.5%!!
Remember Salmond’s campaign moved Yes from 28% to an actual vote of 45% – the latter having dropped back from 51%.
Salmond has made being Yes “normal”. So it is a completely different world now – a much easier world in which to make progress, one would think.
Cod,
Yes, Nicola Sturgeon is the presiding FM with YES in the lead, however, to attribute that lead to Nicola or even the SNP for that matter, means that Brexit had or has no positive effect on the Yes vote, that Boris as PM had or has no effect on the Yes vote, that independence friendly younger new voters had or has no effect on the Yes vote, that the No friendly older demographic dying off had or has no positive effect on the Yes vote, that Westminster stealing powers from Holyrood had or has no positive effect on the Yes vote.
There’s more but if we are being asked to believe that only Nicola is responsible for the majority Yes we have in the polls now, well I would find that very difficult to believe indeed.
Gregory Beekman, I said it was suspiciously odd to talk in terms of us being “well and truly gubbed” in 2014. I’ve never met anyone on any side who has put it like that.
It’s undoubtedly a way of describing the defeat that would make sense coming from a unionist. But I haven’t met one yet who has put it like that.
But forget it. It’s no big deal what I think.
@ Grouse Beater
‘Novelist and illustrator, Alasdair Gray switched back to Labour from SNP…attacked him as a racist and a bigot.’
Yes, I was initially horrified at some of the stuff said about him and how could he support labour. A bit like with Germaine Greer, I initially believed things folk said, only to find it wasn’t she who had changed her stance.
@ kapelmeister
I entirely agree, it has to be 1 or 2, no real third option.
@ Beaker
‘That breaches employment legislation. Race / ethnic background cannot be used to discriminate an application.’
Yes, I agree but companies should try harder to pick from local staff first before advertising nationwide, or promote/train existing staff. I don’t know how many will have similar stories but there are two examples recently in a tech company I know of here where it seemed they went almost straight to London looking for someone, only for the first one, after being offered the job, kept delaying starting, putting obstacles about moving up here only for them to rescind the offer later when he kept messing them about. They then offered it to another London based individual who took the job, but only stayed in it for a few months, having found something better back in London. They’d have been much better doing more to try recruiting locally or encouraging the training of someone within, who would have been glad of the chance and would want to stay, both in the company and Scotland. And that’s only a mid level position, when it comes to heading up Scotland’s quangos or cultural organisations I’m always surprised when a Scot is chosen. The age of viceroys and governors generals seems not over after all.
Can someone PLEASE let the Rev know about AWolScot’s post above. I don’t know the process. That crap should not be allowed.
@Hatuey
Stop calling me a Unionist because I used the phrase “well-and-truly gubbed“.
You may not like my way with words but that’s below the belt.
My point is: we lost big time so what the heck did you expect anyone taking over from Salmond to do?
And the world saw that we were well-and-truly gubbed. A 10% difference is not “close”. Unionists were celebrating their clear victory. And it was a clear victory.
If it had been 51% v. 49% then I can see the argument for Sturgeon pushing from the outset for a new indyref. But when we were gubbed 55% to 45%, there was sod all Sturgeon could do but swallow her pain and try and govern Scotland while knowing independence was off the agenda for the next parliament or two.
So let’s give her a break – Salmond was so gubbed he quit!
Yours,
Gubbed Beekman
@ Awizgonny – go to the top of this screen and tap on the Contact heading.
Polly says…….
“when it comes to heading up Scotland’s quangos or cultural organisations I’m always surprised when a Scot is chosen. The age of viceroys and governors generals seems not over after all.”
Oh my god. Have you never heard of subversion you daft auld quine?
I must say I am astounded at the ignorance and naivety of most Scots, demonstrated in many of those posts.
“He (or she) who knows nothing of history,remains forever a child”
……Marcus Tullius Cicero, 104-43 BC, Rome.
“Can someone PLEASE let the Rev know about AWolScot’s post above. I don’t know the process. That crap should not be allowed.”
Of course it shouldn’t be allowed. It’s enough to give any NWO, fluffy pinko gender-bender, a hissy fit.
@ AWoLsco
Haven’t you heard of David Allen Green’s twitter rant which I’m referencing you daft auld loon?
From Polly thdaft and incontinent
“Haven’t you heard of David Allen Green’s twitter rant which I’m referencing you daft auld loon?”
Never heard of the barsteward, you auld daftie.
We obviously frequent different circles……thank the Good Lord.
@AWoLsco
I understand the sentiments if not the attitude. But I would say this – WOS does pretty much the job that MSM journalists should do. This site is a tool for Scots to wake up and learn some of the lies they have been told.
What you are bringing into it, which I have alluded to myself, will do nothing in the long run except give ammunition to the arseholes who hate the truth the site brings out.
I agree – modern Scots seem to be the most brainwashed people I have ever met with no willingness to look at other perspectives but its kind of besides the point. Most people don’t have the will to seriously question what they were told throughout their lives but rudely repeating it wont help and only give the people who hate the site ammo.
@ AWoLsco
David Allen Green, an English writer on law in conversation with David Lidington about a new Advocate General.
‘Again, there are other better sources of Scots law advice
And to extent it is a political appointee, matter for Scotland, not imposed by London
There is no case for London to impose a political appointment like this on Scotland
The age of viceroys and governors-general is over’
Now why not do something useful instead of trying to wind people up, especially as you’re rubbish at it.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
23 September, 2020 at 12:59 pm
does anyone know if Short money is made available to MPs who are elected but refuse to sit in the HoC? eg. do Sinn Fein get any?
“They do not.”
House of Commons Library says different;…. Sinn Fein received £169,030.92 following the 2019 election.
“Short Money is made available to all opposition parties in the House of Commons that secured either at least two seats or one seat and more than 150,000 votes at the previous general election.
The scheme has three components:
Funding to assist an opposition party in carrying out its parliamentary business
Funding for the opposition parties’ travel and associated expenses
Funding for the running costs of the Leader of the Opposition’s office
Short Money is not available to parties whose members have not sworn the Oath of Allegiance (such as Sinn Féin) because it was introduced to offer assistance for ‘parliamentary duties’. A separate scheme (introduced on 8 February 2006) provides funds to parties ‘represented by Members who have chosen not to take their seats’, providing for ‘expenses wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred for the employment of staff and related support to Members designated as that party’s spokesman in relation to the party’s representative business’. This is calculated on the same terms as Short Money. Other opposition parties have access to Short Money to support parliamentary business only and no equivalent extension for representative work.”
AWoLsco says:
23 September, 2020 at 8:40 pm
“Take the EU, or EUSSR, as it is commonly referred to….This is supposed, in the minds of many in Scotland, to be our great saviour.Not so. It is potentially as great a tyranny as Westminster ….if not more so.”
Commonly referred to by Tories=unrepresentative of Scots. And the EU won’t steal our taxes and oil/gas revenues…or dump nuclear stockpiles next to our major cities…
@AWoLsco
Why don’t you finally consummate that love affair you’ve clearly got going on and go fuck yourself.
Racist shitbag.
Joe says….
“I agree – modern Scots seem to be the most brainwashed people I have ever met with no willingness to look at other perspectives but its kind of besides the point.”
No, I don’t think it is beside the point. If you can’t confront the problem(s) of independence head-on,,,,then, put quite simply, ….you don’t deserve independence.
“Most people don’t have the will to seriously question what they were told throughout their lives but rudely repeating it wont help “!
I beg to differ. Keep hammering away at them, the unthinking noodle-headed calibans, until, eventually, they are forced to really research the matters for themselves. It worked for me. It can work for them.
“and only give the people who hate the site ammo.”
Well let them bring their ammo to this site. What’s the matter with you man? Where’s your confidence and pride? Do you think it impossible to see this malign force reduced to humility and ridicule?
If so, then shame on you, and all like-minded. There will be no independent Scotland with that attitude.
“House of Commons Library says different;…. Sinn Fein received £169,030.92 following the 2019 election.”
Literally in the text you quote:
“Short Money is not available to parties whose members have not sworn the Oath of Allegiance (such as Sinn Féin)”
@Rev Stu 12:59, @Sylvia 1:03
Thought so! Thanks. Tells us what we need to know. SNP is clamped to the HoC’s udder until, if at all, they can find other funds to support the hierarchy’s lifestyle.
Alec Lomax says:
23 September, 2020 at 3:52 pm
“Big Jock – fair haired Scots with blue eyes, perhaps?”
Maybe just one with the historical knowledge and sensitivity not to launch the most prestigious arts festival in Scotland with Judas Macabeus – Handel’s sycophantic tribute to the butcher of Cumberland after his victory over Scots at Culloden.
‘This is calculated on the same terms as Short Money. Other opposition parties have access to Short Money to support parliamentary business only and no equivalent extension for representative work’
When they say same terms what do they mean exactly? How much could Sinn Fein have received in short money had they taken the oath? Or how much would SNP lose out if they didn’t? Surely that’s the comparator. So far I’m no wiser. Sinn Fein money doesn’t seem a lot in comparison to what SNP get but there’s not so many of them and the area they cover is small.
“the Unionist establishment considers a Sturgeon government the least-bad of the achievable options”
I think nearly everyone considers a Sturgeon government the best possible government for Scotland given the alternatives?
Politics is a zero sum game (all parties between them will get 100% of the vote…). So if much of the opposition (well, Tories & Labour & LibDems) sink to new depths, then it does relatively elevate even those that do nothing to improve their standing…
FACTS
The fact is that the National Treasurer of the SNP is Colin Beattie an honest and honourable man, who is quite clear that he is responsible to, and accountable to the membership for the proper keeping and reporting to them. I know of no re3striction, legal or moral, which precludes him from issuing a report on those accounts to members.
And I can think of no reason he would find good enough to stop him from doing just that
Ahh I never even knew he had died. A good guy. No surprise he left the current SNP sweet fuck all.