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Wings Over Scotland

We have a number of questions

Posted on September 16, 2014 by

Concerning this:


1. Given that the “paying out early” routine has been done at least a dozen times before (sometimes with hilarious consequences) and is therefore of little PR value, how stupid do you have to be to do it over the independence referendum?

2. Paying out early on Manchester United winning the league doesn’t really upset anyone. Manchester City fans have no particular reason to be annoyed about it – their bets still win if their team pulls off the surprise league victory, and it certainly doesn’t affect the outcome. The teams are already motivated to play their best, they’re not bothered about people winning money.

But doing it on the referendum might just actually make a difference to the outcome. It’s a documented phenomenon that some people’s votes are affected by the thought that they want to be on the winning side (and that’s a whole other kind of brainless we don’t have time to go into here).

So how mind-numbingly stupid do Betfair need to be not only risk paying out money they didn’t have to, but also to utterly enrage a couple of million potential customers by (a) turning the most important and serious democratic decision made in Britain for 300 years into a cheap PR stunt, and (b) actually making people think they might have directly influenced the outcome? Is that even legal?

(And is it perhaps relevant that Betfair was founded by a major Tory donor?)

3. If the whole moronic brainfail involves a “multi-million pound payout”, how stupid must the Telegraph be to have employed the sort of thundering cretin who calls that a “six-figure sum”? A single million pounds is seven figures, halfwit.

Readers, we have to get out of this country of cretins if only to boost our average IQ.

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553 to “We have a number of questions”

  1. scotsbob says:

    Can anyone please tell me if there are any rallies in the Glasgow area today or this evening, thanks.

  2. Les Wilson says:

    Wp says:

    Quick answer, NONE, there is not a functioning brain between them!

  3. ChrisB says:

    I share manandboy’s fears that the polls might well be being used to prime people (MSM consumers) for a rigged No win. I also think that the continuing demonisation of the Yes camp – e.g. in the lead stories online in the Daily Mail (the reception given to Miliband) and the Telegraph (alleged pressure on St Andrews) this morning – may also be designed to help prime the rUK to ensure popular support for robust measures in response to what might happen if Yes are robbed.

    I’ve seen a popular movement demonised before (the protest against the Stuttgart 21 project) and there are plenty of striking similarities between that and the independence referendum. There, too, the MSM were entirely against us. There, too, they tried to create the impression that there was popular support for their project.

    That Trafalgar Square event the other day was pathetic, but for breathtaking crapness it is easily beaten by the sight of a group of stolid German conservative politicians singing “We shall overcome” while waving little flags (raucous video of it here: ).

    For what it’s worth (as a half-Scot living in France and therefore only able to follow events online), it looks to me like Yes should win it easily. It should be triumph of hope over fear, of truth over lies. But, as the Minister-President of the Stuttgart region said (after overwhelming MSM support swung the referendum which allowed Stuttgart 21 to go ahead): “In a democracy, it’s the majority that counts, not the truth.”

  4. Nana Smith says:

    My friend in America tells me folks who she has spoken to say they are shamed by Obama & Clinton’s interventions. Also there is huge support for Scottish independence which is not shown by the media.

    They are also sick and tired of big business and politicians with vested interests running their country into the ground and warmongering all over the world.

  5. Les Wilson says:

    what’s happened to all the postings?

  6. Nana Smith says:

    @Les Wilson

    There are so many postings a new page has started.

  7. James123 says:

    Les Wilson – They’ve gone to “older comments”

  8. Jeannie says:

    @scotsbob – from 2 till 8 in George Square. Will be livestreamed also, I think.

  9. Tony Little says:

    OT: the Herald today on all its articles have a lot of aggressive NO posters pushing the various orchestrated NoBetterTogetherThanks line. Lots of angry voices and rude comments. Boy are they rattled!

  10. Peter Sneddon says:

    Another last ditch appeal to the brain dead..Goodbye UK.

  11. Black Douglas says:

    @Tony Little

    As expected.

    Just giving the MSM a total bodyswerve toady. 😀

  12. Fiona says:

    Makes me wonder about Mr Darling’s claim that he is confident of victory “because I have seen our returns”. The unionists haven’t been near me either, so if he means their canvassing returns the coverage does not seem to me to be very good

  13. MajorBloodnok says:

    Also, if you’re in Edinburgh there’s things happening at the Meadows this afternoon and evening (including music):

    5:00pm to 8:00pm Organised by AyeMarchmont & National Collective

    There is also the usual AyeMarchmont stall from 12:30 to 5:00pm-ish.


  14. No no no...Yes says:

    Here is the letter from the First Minister to the People of Scotland, published on the SNP website:

    “In these final hours of this historic campaign I want to speak directly to every person in this country who is weighing up the arguments they have heard.

    I have no doubt people in Scotland will look past the increasingly desperate and absurd scare stories being generated daily from Downing Street.

    Those have no place in a sensible debate.

    So in these last days of the greatest campaign Scotland has ever seen, I want to ask you to take a step back from the arguments of politicians and the blizzard of statistics.

    For every expert on one side, there is an expert on the other.

    For every scare tactic, there is a message of hope, opportunity and possibility.

    The opportunity for our Parliament to gain real job creating powers, the ability to protect our treasured National Health Service and the building of a renewed relationship of respect and equality with our friends and neighbours in the rest of these Islands.

    But for all that, the talking is nearly done.

    The campaigns will have had their say.

    What’s left is just us – the people who live and work here.

    The only people with a vote. The people who matter.

    The people who for a few precious hours during polling day hold sovereignty, power, authority in their hands.

    It’s the greatest most empowering moment any of us will ever have.

    Scotland’s future – our country in our hands.

    What to do? Only each of us knows that.

    For my part, I ask only this.

    Make this decision with a clear head and a clear conscience.

    Know that by voting ‘Yes’, what we take into our hands is a responsibility like no other- the responsibility to work together to make Scotland the nation it can be

    That will require maturity, wisdom, engagement and energy- and it will come not from the usual sources of parties and politicians but from you -the people who have

    transformed this moment from another political debate into a wonderful celebration of people power.

    Does every Country make mistakes? Yes.

    Are there challenges for Scotland to overcome? Undoubtedly.

    But my question is this – who better to meet those challenges on behalf of our nation than us?

    We must trust ourselves.

    Trust each other.

  15. Macart says:

    No mainstream today for me either.

    Too busy working on the last couple of undecideds at work anyhow. 😉

  16. MajorBloodnok says:


    I saw a comment from a Labour MP the other day saying that ‘they didn’t know where their supporters where to get them out’. I took this to mean that as they haven’t been able to canvas they don’t know who is a definite no voter so that they can be encouraged to vote.

    Contrast the YES campaign where every street has been canvassed at least twice and we have a very good idea of the whereabouts of the Yes voters and therefore these will be ‘chased up’ to get the vote out.

    All the no activist I have seen in Edinburgh appear to be bussed in students from (much) further south with no idea of the issues. Likely paid too. Even in places like Morningside they really do not have boots on the ground and have relied entirely on a collaborative MSM to keep people in line, a tactic that has got weaker and weaker over the course of the campaign.

    ..I’m not confident, but I am optimistic!

  17. bookie from hell says:

    We must trust ourselves.

    so true

  18. tonymac says:

    o/t tweetin ma tits aff till..
    7am polling station..
    “destiny’s calling and i don’t want to be late”
    We’re Gonny Dae this.

  19. fred blogger says:

    the great NHS sell off.

    then the man who helped sell it off.
    vote YES!!!

  20. Thepnr says:

    This is the best YES video I’ve seen yet.

    Scottish Independence – We are going to win!!!

  21. HandandShrimp says:

    Whatever the outcome tomorrow (and my hope is that it is a Yes), politics in Scotland will never be the same again. We have worked hard, committed our hearts, time and resources to secure a Yes vote. We have fought against the full might of the establishment and entrenched self-interest of the political and big business cabal both at home and internationally. Despite the resources available to the opponents of Scottish independence we have fought them to a standstill, panicked them and watched as they promise the moon at the 11th hour. They establishment will not forget this battle and I am proud to have been, in a very small way, part of it.

  22. Faltdubh says:

    Morning Call’s No callers are all inept and the too feart brigade.

  23. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    stomach in knots, stress levels causing chest pains, confident of good victory over the vile new campaign. Nervous as fuck tho.

  24. Nana Smith says:


    Thank you for posting that video….crying here, lump in my throat and overwhelming feeling of pride in my fellow scots.

  25. Rabby Burns says:

    Will Indy Scotland have its own Air Accident Investigation Board?

    Over the past 8 years two (2) heads of the present board have refused to review a crash in which one person was killed. The report was incredible ie unbelievable and despite being informed there was information unknown to the investigators which could have absolved the pilot who they judged to have been responsible for the crash, they have refused all appeals.
    This is despicable behavior at the highest level and shows total disregard for a pilot who has the weight of a death on his shoulders.
    This form of contempt is seen often in England but would not be tolerated in a free Scotland!
    Investigators don’t always get it right but what is really behind this story?
    Who will be the next pilot or mechanic for that matter?
    Vote YES

  26. Macart says:


    That ran a shiver up the old spine. 🙂


  27. fred blogger says:

    the artist taxi driver has a quite word.

  28. Famous15 says:

    The “foreign ” media are everywhere.Doing a quiet bit of last minute canvassing in Drumbrae,Edinburgh and Montreal TV and German TV have cameras following every move. God we should have had some training and been taught not to scratch THERE when being filmed

    What a buzz. Is this what it’s like to join the adults’ world?

  29. Redrockg11 says:

    Morning call is a total disgrace with No Better Together propaganda being spouted unchallenged. Justified no doubt as its ‘free comment’ – Hah! It’s a loaded question ‘The positive case for the Union’. As it’s the last broadcast before the polls open continuous balance is what is required.

    Switched it off as it’s bad for my blood pressure.

  30. bunter says:

    Let us inform the foreign media of the performance of the BBC and London rags if we happen upon them.

  31. Morag says:

    Stu has tweeted that he can’t log in to Wings from “Forward Base North” (Bathgate) to put up a new post. Slightly worrying.

  32. Jamscot says:

    Looks like the police are getting fed up with the MSM/Bitter Together’s rhetoric & lies about Yes campaign bullying.

  33. call me dave says:

    Already been approached by 5 folk in the busy cafe (over 50 in at the moment) wishing me well for tomorrow. All saying that they have already voted yes as have their families or will vote YES tomorrow along with others they know.

    I have been wearing my black T shirt for about a year now with

    On the back
    I am encouraged by this. Vote YES.

  34. Wee jock poo-pong mcplop says:

    @Famous15: “God we should have had some training and been taught not to scratch THERE when being filmed”

    Seriously, whenever there’s a camera and/ or a microphone near you, SMILE, LOOK HAPPY, BE LIGHTHEARTED. It comes across really well, it cannot be edited out, and it will make viewers want to be on your side. Just a hint from one who works in the MSM, albeit in Sasunn. Wish I could be with you guys today…you are doing our country a huge service.

  35. chipmonkey says:

    I’ve tidied up my song.

    Scotland Be Brave

  36. chalks says:

    People, let’s do this.

    2 years in the making. 300 years of being held back from taking our rightful place in the world.

    Fuck the Union.

    Forza Scotland.

  37. When the brain dead of SLAB can flim-flam their own brain dead sheep by the millions, WHY are we surprised when we get brain dead Government.?

    The current brain dead and UNELECTED ConDem Govt have put their signatures to the “VOW” – LESS THAN 2 YEARS AFTER – both these party leaders tried to “BAN” every tory voter in Scotland from getting representation in the Commons.

    Less than 2 years ago the Tory Leader and the FibDem Leader attempted to CEDE SCOTLAND TO SLAB.

    The BRIBE for Mibbeland and Balls has been transparent.
    Their treacherous sheep – KRASH,SKELETOR,FLIPPER etc were let-loose and became the attack dogs for english tories.

    SLAB scab politicians who should be standing in the dock for numerous WAR CRIMES are producing serial DODGY DOSSIERS to horn-swoggle their own people.

    We know what the future holds and no matter which party wins the next WM Election, we face another five worse years of CUTS,AUSTERITY and foodbanks flourishing,with at least £2.5 billion cut from Holyrood`s Budget.

    The brain dead are not stupid.
    They know enough – NOT TO TRUST THEMSELVES.

    Across the whole of planet Earth – they are SHAMING THEMSELVES and shaming every sensible Scot – inside Scotland and ALL our relatives and friends across the world.

    Let`s confound all the RIGGED POLLS and march to a surer future humming a single harmonious tune.
    “Oh, Flower of Scotland”.

  38. chipmonkey says:

    @Thepnr – loved the video.

  39. Marie clark says:

    @Thepnr, that video is an absolute belter, thank you.

    Nana, that’s you and me both in tears, that should be played loud and long all day, everywhere.

    ” make the noise and make it clear, we’re not gonna sit in silence, we’re not gonna live in fear”. I like that. Shut out the rubbish TV and MSM today, we’ve heard it till we’re a’ sick o’ it.

    Good letter from Alex Salmond. Come on Scotland, forward into a new future.

    Be brave, WE WILL WIN.

  40. Fireproofjim says:

    Call me DAVE.
    Great to hear your efforts are paying off.
    At least tomorrow you will be able to wash the T shirt you have been wearing for a year!!!!!!!

  41. Graeme Doig says:

    Anyone got an answer for Keith over on ‘New readers start here’. Seems it would help him decide. (most recent comment)


  42. tonymac says:

    @Thepnr says:
    17 September, 2014 at 10:24 am

    This is the best YES video I’ve seen yet.
    Scottish Independence – We are going to win!!!

    I Agree so Tweeted it
    CYBERSCOT 10:52am

    #indyref 7am polling station “destiny’s calling and i don’t want to be late”
    Please watch & enjoy this… #voteyes #yes

  43. fred blogger says:

    the late great martyn bennett.

  44. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T but comic.

    I woke up this morning and had breakfast. Then, as is now usual, I went to move the decked out campervan from my drive to the parking area just by my gatepost. I found someone had parked a strange car exactly central to my usual parking spot while I was having breakfast,(06:30am). Thing is the whole area outside everyone’s home was empty except for the guy who sells cars along at the end.

    Anyhow I shifted the van and parked close, but not blocking, the parked car. I nipped out and shot a video clip and returned to listen to the news and log onto Wings. I was sitting in full view as I was in the bay window area.

    Next I went to make a cuppa and returned to find the parked car, after 5 hours had gone. I wonder were they watching me? Perhaps I’m being paranoid but I cannot figure why someone would park just there when the could have parked outside whatever home they were visiting.

    I believe this was a NO campaigner’s attempt to prevent me parking by a very busy road and thus showing the flag. If so didn’t they figure I would just park along a bit?

    Have a look at the YouTube video: –
    If nothing else it will show the flag flying YES Van.

  45. call me dave says:

    Hmm! wondered what the smell was… 🙂

    Remember there are 1.3 million folk registered who have not voted before. 80% probably wont bother at the end of the day so that leaves 1.04 million. No-one really knows which way they will break but the majority are YES according to experts and RIC.

    If they split 2:1 yes then that’s 300,000 votes more for us.

    Game on! All to play for.

  46. muttley79 says:

    Just like to support HandandShrimp’s sentiments. I am very proud of the Yes campaign. The effort put in by so many people has been superb. This has been a great campaign.

  47. MajorBloodnok says:

    Hey muttley79 – knees up at the Meadows 5pm – 8pm approx. Just FYI.

  48. Clarinda says:

    When I was 16 I was assistant editor of our school magazine and carried out a totally unscientific survey on the thoughts of 30 local citizens chosen at random on their views on Home Rule – as it was then. The result was positive even then.

    My grandfather when he came to Edinburgh in 1905 from the far highlands set up its first Gaelic society – it is still in business – as he wished to sustain his culture, literature and language, such was his determination to promote his love of this country. You will realise when I say I was 16 that was in the 60s – so my whole life I have been made more than aware of the road to Independence.

    My late father (a Seaforth POW following capture – he never used the term ‘surrender’ at St Valery en Caux)was a passionate promoter of Independence and our house was frequently full of remarkable people who shared that same desire. I still see their names referred to when reading the Scottish and political history of Independence movements. Surrender has never been part of my family’s behaviour or ethos.

    So you will understand my emotions – in exhilarating sympathy with so many here and elsewhere – as I respect the privilege I have tomorrow in acting not just on my and my children’s behalf but Scotland’s potential when I vote.

    Thank you so much for providing this unique resource of information and debate. I suspect the real work is just about to start. Thank you Rev. Stuart Campbell and all Wingers.

  49. Richard says:

    I don’t have a vote in the referendum, but have been an avid follower of the news about it (including this site) for a long time.

    I have to say that I was also deeply puzzled by the Betfair news. With the polls as they are, it seemed like an odd gamble both with Betfair’s money and with their reputation. To that extent, I’d agree with your post wholeheartedly.

    I would raise one point on the tone of your post, however. I think the reference to “getting out of this country of cretins” and “boosting our average IQ” is rather offensive. I live in England and, while I suspect I’d be a no voter were I in Scotland, I’m fairly certain I’m not a cretin, nor are many of the people I know. They have taken an intelligent and deep interest in the debate, and have varying views. By all means, lampoon individual cretins, but don’t tar us all with the same brush.

  50. kininvie says:

    Well, we were paid a wee visit by the BBC here in Livingston this morning. You can see the ‘package’ on iplayer one o’clock news.

    They only got in touch with me late last night, so we didn’t have time to arrange anything spectacular…but they’ve produced a reasonably balanced report, I’d say.

    But they maybe should learn that Livingston, wherever it is, is not ‘North-East of Glasgow’

    And, while we were shown a BT convoy of four cars, our afternoon Yes convoy had ten + a motorbike…so we split it in two and sent people off in different directions!

    Oh – and BTW – we canvassed the area shown a couple of weeks back, and came out with a clear Yes majority!

  51. bookie from hell says:

    100s of YES walking down royal mile

  52. CameronB Brodie says:

    What a small world. 😉

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