The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Two lost cousins

Posted on September 16, 2014 by

Two full-page ads in today’s Scottish Sun from the two faces of the No campaign:

cousins

Vague, incoherent, half-hearted lies from an old dinosaur too bewildered to know where to lie down and die, and a demented racist holed up in a rural Post Office waiting for the men with the nets and the tranquilisers to arrive. “Better Together” in microcosm. This is what they think you’ll swallow, because this is what they think you are.

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 16 09 14 11:09

      Two lost cousins | FreeScotland

    402 to “Two lost cousins”

    1. Ananurhing says:

      Two Lost Cousins? In bed together? Eeeew!

    2. Clootie says:

      I think that will only re-inforce their own supports and piss off some undecided so all in all neglible impact.

      It proves they have nothing to over.

      A timetable is meaningless when they cannot be held to account at any point for timescale or powers.I use the term powers but in reality we all know they are just a trap to get the Scots to pay more in the long term (double taxation / Barnett cut and Westminster keeps all the revenue streams – Oil / APD / Crown estate / VAT etc etc

      Roll on Friday Morning!

    3. heedtracker says:

      Mad bloke had me at Independence is forever-not just for Christmas! Even madder bloke was 12 years a UKOK Chancellor/Prime Minister so with a week to go, now he’s flogging devobleh. Crash made more sense when he was telling the world he wasn’t a Scot he was north British.

    4. James Westland says:

      That advert on the RHS is from the same stable as the proudscots.co.uk people

    5. schrodingers cat says:

      it was wings wot won it

    6. Robert Kerr says:

      Again we have the not so subtle, but improved, linkage of SNP and the Fuhrer!

      Sad bar stewards!

    7. Edmund says:

      Gordon Brown’s advert is as black as the future he’s painting.

      And I love how each ‘consequence’ in the other one is delimited by a bright cheerful tick! Doesn’t quite give the impression they’re aiming for. Yay, no more BBC! Yay, a new flag! Yay, no more illegal wars!

      Are there similar Yes adverts?

    8. Patrician says:

      Better with Scotland? Shouldn’t that read Better Together or do they realise that the union is now so toxic they can’t mention it.

    9. Marian says:

      Why should Scots buy a used car from any one of these unionist charlatan salesmen when they can get a brand new one by voting YES?

    10. Dcanmore says:

      This is what Tory cash buys the Labour Party.

    11. Malcolm says:

      This week has been an overdose in fuckwittery. Roll on Friday.

    12. donald mac says:

      The sad thing is there will be a large portion of Scots will believe this crap.

    13. gillie says:

      “TOO POOR, TOO WEE, TOO STUPID” – writ large in the Sun.

      “The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that is also a hypocrite” – Tennessee Williams

      Could have been written with Gordon Brown in mind.

    14. Ananurhing says:

      Devo Schmevo!

      The unfettered F wittery emanating from just about every media outlet is eye watering. Can all these journos really be so ill informed?

      According to Chris Moncrieff of the Press Association, the Queen will no longer be able to holiday in Balmoral as it will then be in a foreign country.

      What?

    15. Helpmaboab says:

      The favoured place for bewildered, old, political dinosaurs to go and die is the House Of Lords. Independence would deny Brown the chance of a peerage. Might this be colouring his judgement somewhat?

    16. Nan says:

      interesting
      Interesting…Thanks Ricky !
      YES. Scotland should be an Independent Country

      Interesting…Thanks Ricky !
      UnlikeUnlike · · Share

    17. Graham says:

      Quote from Herald
      Martin Boon, director of polling company ICM, said the independence referendum could prove a “polling Waterloo” and become the industry’s biggest embarrassment since 1992, when surveys predicted a narrow victory for Neil Kinnock in the days before his eventual defeat to John Major.

      I love the smell of panic in the morning.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/icm-director-boon-admits-a-polling-waterloo-is-possible.25336542

    18. Nan says:

      Whoops..sorry folks…the ‘interesting’ part is a reporter at the Cameron camp this morning commenting that the Yes campaign have it..the surge is overwhelming…YES YES YES..Woohoo…no compacency though..every vote has to count !!

    19. Murray McCallum says:

      Those SNP people are not going to convince me that Gordon Brown didn’t win the 2015 General election and as Prime Minister he will lead a dependent Scotland to the promised land of austerity.

    20. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Didnae ken Lochailort had a Post Office?…..

    21. TYRAN says:

      “Better With Scotland”. Just not Devo Max or any substantial powers. Those are Better With Westminster.

    22. David Stevenson says:

      The RHS one was the one I saw in the Metro and referred to on another thread. There were two full page Yes ads in the Metro, one back-to-back with the RHS one. Less text, more photos, more positivity in ours.

    23. Mealer says:

      Listen to the Andy Clark independence song on youtube

    24. BrianW says:

      @Ananurhing

      Cameron, Miliband & Clegg would be the genetical abnormal result of those two lost cousins rekindling their devotion for each other..

      Just one big mess if there is a no.

    25. Red Squirrel says:

      GBs ad looks like a funeral notice…oh wait

      Free tinfoil hats with the Sun today?

    26. Juteman says:

      Why doesn’t the Yes campaign take out a full page advert with a random person off the street guaranteeing more powers? After all, the random persons guarantee will hold as much authority as a retired backbench oposition MP.

    27. galamcennalath says:

      I’ve been waiting to see what NBTT would do in the last few days. I think we know now, Project Fear continues. This shows they believe it either effective or all they have left, or both.

      Let’s hope the scare stories are now largely ineffective.

    28. fred blogger says:

      their contempt for honest folk know’s no limits.
      we must consign them to the history books.
      vote YES, and we have all the levers of POWER, we need.
      be robust.

    29. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T sorry.

      From the Irish Times on Saturday. Martin McGuinness on the death of Dr Paisley.

      http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/martin-mcguinness-very-proud-that-he-and-ian-paisley-were-part-of-something-hugely-important-1.1927532

      “What united us after decades of division was the common view that our people were better able to govern themselves than any British government.”

    30. Graeme Doig says:

      For the guy on radio Scotland phone in and anyone else questioning the effectiveness of a Scottish Defence Force here’s a quote i found hidden away on the bbc website on Sunday:

      ‘ Retired Lieutenant Commander Colin May, a senior Faslane naval intelligence officer, is backing the “Yes” campaign – and adds that he knows “many Royal Navy colleagues who would be delighted to serve in Scottish Defence Forces”.

      He says: “The defence plans by the Scottish government would deliver the necessary capability for Scotland and the ability to contribute to Nato operations.” ‘

    31. call me dave says:

      @red squirrel

      It is a tad sombre. Hope he’s paying for it.

      It’s in the Record just before the ‘who do you think you are kidding` advert.

      Met a few nodding acquaintances in the cafe this morning some wearing YES. Bloody hell who knew?

      I had them down as Gordon’s people, not one aged below 60.

      Is it in the bag? Apart from that pig the three amigos are trying to sell us of course.

    32. Midgehunter says:

      Brown’s ad looks amazingly like an obituary – big fat cat dies.

      The other is a re-run of some closing sale, flog it cheap.

      Both are still a “tell them anything” panic, we must do something, who cares what, just do something. It’s pathetic.

      2 days to go, keep at it YES an Wingers. No is throwing everything they can at you and not winning. Hold on and smile. 🙂

    33. Andy says:

      In the event of a narrow Yes win on Friday morning, will BT have the brass neck to question the legitimacy of the result on the grounds that some of the votes were cast before their shiny devo-maybe “pledge”?

    34. Colin says:

      I wonder which paper will publish a list of “this is what will happen to you if you vote Yes” tomorrow?

    35. Onwards says:

      We have to hold our nerve.

      Don’t let them scare you into voting against self-government.

      It is NORMAL for every other country in tbe world.

    36. tombee says:

      Isn’t it about time that somebody told poor sad old Gordon Brown about Mr Christopher Chote, the TORY member for Cambridge and what he and his other colleagues are saying at Westminster about a NO Vote being the status quo. The offers being made would be against the UK constitution.

      FOR MORE POWER VOTE YES.

    37. horacesaysyes says:

      I always find that all-black pages in newspapers seem to smudge away very easily, much like the ‘guarantees’ that Brown is in no position to offer.

    38. Colin says:

      According to Tory backbencher Christopher Chope MP, Huey, Dewey, and Louie can promise whatever they want to the Scots, because he and his backbencher chums will not vote for it in parliament.
      No passage through parliament, no new powers. Not that I thought there would be, but this just proves it.

    39. Ron Maclean says:

      Snake oil – vintage 1979 – at chemists near you this Thursday.

    40. Helena Brown says:

      Em that page in the Daily Retard,was that not similar to the one published not that long ago and Stu put on here. Gordon Brown, what can you say about him. He and Darling worked tirelessly in 2011 for a Labour Victory, wasn’t it Einstein who said doing the same thing time and again and expecting a different result is a sign of madness?

    41. Lanarkist says:

      Positively positive positivity will win the day especially matched with a big broad confident smile!

    42. A.N.Surgent says:

      Palestinian pipers support Independence, seems half the world is willing us on, the domino affect could be amazing.

    43. cod says:

      Destruction of the United Kingdom – our home of more than 64 million people

      Oh noes! If the United Kingdom is destroyed where will all the people live? Will we have to float on giant rafts in the sea, like something out of Waterworld? What effect might the loss of all that landmass have on Europe, or tidal flows around the world? Will it bring Armageddon? Why hasn’t there been a Daily Mail headline shouting “Independent Scotland Will Bring The End Of The World”? Won’t somebody think of the children?

      Idiots.

    44. Doug Mcgregor says:

      A no vote also guarantees no more cabinet places for Scots MPs.
      How long will England continue to allow the West Lothian question to be unanswered?
      The only solution for them is Scotlandshire.
      This has to be put to Darling and Alexander.

    45. Tam Jardine says:

      Lochailort Post Office? Mr MacDonald must have downsized dramatically!

      It’s just a shame that the ultra rich in this country have been so quiet over the many years when inequality has grown, to the extent that 1 million of our fellow men women and children are living in poverty.

      Flags, Nationality, the RAF etc etc – these matter little compared to relieving poverty and improving prospects for our young people, and pay and conditions for our working population.

      I don’t have £10000 to spend on this referendum to broadcast my views – just Wings and the people I talk to but by trying to scare us rather than putting any kind of positive vision forward for the future the ultra rich in this country have missed an opportunity to participate in the change that needs to take place in this country.

      And the list of priorities that push all the British Nationalist buttons shows how far out of touch Mr MacDonald is.

    46. boris says:

      In a briefing document to Whitehall he described a, “grave crisis” over equipment. Scimitar tanks could not go into reverse unless their engines were restarted and Vector vehicles were out of action because “the wheels just kept falling off, literally” and only one in every five machine guns were working.

      Major Nick Haston, who was Major Gen Mackay’s deputy chief of staff, resigned from the Army in protest at bureaucratic incompetence. He said troops had been so short of vital equipment that his staff bought spares on the internet. “I would say that some of the people that procure [equipment] in our Ministry of Defence haven’t a clue,” he said.

      The level of incompetence is breathtaking. Quite how any military veteran would wish to add support to Westminster is beyond me. Scotland will operate a professional well equipped force. What is in place at present is disgraceful

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/09/16/military-veterans-called-up-to-support-better-together/

    47. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez, that’s grim.

      Vote no for a better Scotland? And they’ve done so well to date. I’ll maybe pass on that gracious offer.

      FFS, two good loons together.

    48. schrodingers cat says:

      the turtles head is officially touching cloth…….

      new ruk flag

      a white cross on a white background……..

      cant see NI wanting to share it

    49. Helena Brown says:

      Definitely more YES posters going up in the windows, many more YES than NO.

    50. HandandShrimp says:

      Never read the Bun, I have heard that it is being too Yes friendly for the Nay Sayers liking but without coming out for one side or the other. If there is a big poll in the Sun on Thursday then I expect the Sun will align with who they think will win.

    51. Macca73 says:

      Hello folks, Long time lurker here, I just thought I’d post to say that it’s so refreshing to see and hear the views of everyone on this site. I’m an ex-pat that’s been trying to do his bit for the YES vote. I feels like it could be historic and I’m tending to look more toward the people of Scotland than the polls!! That’s why I believe that people like Brown are irrelivant because he had his chance!

      On another note CNBC Today spoke of 24Bn dollors of investment in the Clair Oil Field with 250,000 barrels a day coming out and 8 Billion barrels which should last the next 78 YEARS!!!

      We’ve GOT to win this .. for our children and the childrens children

    52. Greannach says:

      It seems like Lochailort Post Office is a place well worth avoiding.

      proudtobescots.co.uk

    53. Andy says:

      Another hillsburgh type report from a socialy corrupt msn who acctually buys into this shit, only a knuckle dragging moron

    54. Jim McIntosh says:

      I’m starting to worry the only way that NO can stop this is by calling off or postponing the referendum.

      Could it be done by raising concerns that the postal ballots have been compromised somehow. 🙁

      I’m even paranoid writing this.

    55. bookie from hell says:

      Douglas Alexander

      BBC Breakfast this morning.

      He said it was wrong to think that independence would mean the Scots would always get the government they wanted.

      walofs

    56. gerry parker says:

      @Juteman,

      Aye, they could do better than a random person off the streets, they could use Tom Clarke.

      🙂

    57. iheartScotland says:

      I can almost smell their fear from here in Australia. Stay strong Scotland and don’t believe their bullshit. Couple of days to go, vote Yes.

    58. Edward says:

      Anyone seen the latest crap from Eleanor Bradford
      Apparently she has just been given Confidential papers showing that the Scottish Government are going to make cuts after the referendum

      Needless to say this handy leak is being paraded by Better Together

    59. Doug Mcgregor says:

      How patronising is it that the Tory party , who are in government after all , are virtually absent from this debate except for arranging the donors who make the big expensive ads happen. The Labour Noes are no more than useful idiots to them. I think we should be hearing more from the 500 who own over half of Scotland, what do they say and how do they see the future?

    60. sydthesnake says:

      Ron maclean- Snake oil sounds good

      just spent half hour on the phone to an old colleague who’s voting NO, think I have sown some doubt, he was mostly concerned about pensions, gave him wings info told him about WBB, this constant lie machine will soon run out of steam and then we cracking saving this country of ours

      “don’t let the bar stewards grind you down”

      Syd

    61. HandandShrimp says:

      The NHS stuff from Bradford is a joke, talk about desperate measures. It is exactly this sort of stage managed piffle that has made the No campaign so negative and so complicit with the media.

      Concern over future UK budget funding gaps are not cuts unless the gaps cannot be bridged. In short it is exactly what we are being warned about regarding austerity and the block grant.

    62. Luigi says:

      Lochailort Post Office? Mr MacDonald must have downsized dramatically!

      Lochailort post office is actually situated in a rather grand, but dilapidated, crumbling old castle (Inverailort House), run by a lovely old lady (with lots of pets!). It was owned by the Cameron-Head family and used as a Commando’s training HQ during the war.

      I don’t know where the said Mr MacDonald is hiding out (somewhere in Lochaber?), but the Lochailort PO is just being used as a PO box.

    63. bookie from hell says:

      Gordon Brown said you need to vote labour Scottish elections to save NHS,live on bbc

      proving Westminster rules overs it

    64. Clarinda says:

      Reading around my usual clutch of newspapers – and yes I do look at some suspect outpourings – even our English neighbours are calling these barefaced threats and lies for what they are with many wishing they could join our valiant efforts towards Independence. I detect, as do others, that our social movement is catching and may yet prove to be an exemplar for others.

      Little wonder at the naked panic of sending the Westminster salvage crew to attempt retention of their 307 year old land grab.

    65. simonjmac says:

      I’ve been on the phone this morning to my relatives…just turned 3 strong no’s into nervous yes votes! Just sent them links to WoS and the WBB so they should be strong yes votes by Thursday. Not a bad mornings work for a lad in Aldershot! Hehe

    66. Kaspar says:

      @boris
      In regard to your comments about military veterans and the recent comments by his lordship general Dannatt simply google “scots sacrificed in France” to see what happened to the 51st Highland division.The bbc link (of all places) gives a fairly succinct, although biased, description of what happened to the 10,000 men,one of whom was my father, abandoned to their fate by the military and the British government

    67. fred blogger says:

      wonderful scenes, passion, love, certainty, we are NOT going home on the 19th, our movement for freedom is unstoppable.
      the camera pans left to an empty no stall, says it all, at this stage.
      have a great day.:-)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alwLk4t4xtA

    68. msean says:

      Labour,win or lose the independence referendum,will lose the UK general election,Tories ahead and UKIP /Libdems probably have a quarter of the votes between them.

      With more than 50% of the UK electorate ranged against it,Scotland is facing at least five more years of effectively Conservative government no matter how it votes in said general election.

      When you factor in that the Tories now know exactly how the Labour party machine works,after all,they paid for it and always know what they pay for,it’s as well as all over before the election arrives. Voting NO is effectively a vote for the Conservatives delayed by 9 months.

      Vote NO and you will get the government you deserve,a Tory one, with added Nigel and Boris.

    69. heedtracker says:

      Its nice to reminisce over the Crash glory days now. I’ve ended Boom and Bust, Prudence Prudence Prudence, I saved the world, British jobs for British people, Och just some odious women, punching back of headrest of ministerial jag as your whole con unravels on tape, Crash grovels to the greatest pack of teamGB fraudsters every seen in modern history, although Crash never saw any of it, as he was only teamGB Chancellor of the Exchequer for 10 years.

      http://www.theguardian.com/business/2006/jun/22/politics.economicpolicy

      “Mr Lord Mayor, we will not forget that the first and foremost duty of government – as the governor has reminded us – is to maintain and indeed to strengthen the monetary and fiscal stability that has enabled us, successively, to grow and remain free of recession over the last decade, even when facing the Asia crisis, the American downturn and now the rapidly rising oil and commodity prices of the last 3 years”

      Bet that really cracked up the massed ranks of rich tax dodging spivs at this banquet

    70. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @Gerry Parker

      I remember Tom Clarke, but I don’t know how or why.

    71. Mike says:

      I love the part where they “promote” Independence being something for life as a negative while trying to convince us that their as yet undefined devolution promises of something more are for life and as a result is a good thing.
      What it means is the as yet undefined extra powers being offered “FOR LIFE” is good because if its for LIFE then clearly there is no more room to offer any more.
      So this is what they mean by Devo Max. This is the absolute maximum we are going to offer because its for life.
      FFS how gullible do people have to be to be taken in by this level of school ground campaigning?

    72. BuckieBraes says:

      I’m losing track of all these rapidly-breeding straplines and slogans from the No side.

      ‘Better with Scotland’ – where did that one come from?

    73. watty says:

      Looks like Gordy just took a YES message, changed it to “no” and hopes everyone will fall for it. Big Gordy’s campaign clunking along.

    74. bookie from hell says:

      brown insults scots

      dads army
      private fraser

    75. Liquid Lenny says:

      Well at least there is one Tory MP who is saying publicly what she thinks 🙂

      http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/Mid-Bedfordshire-MP-Nadine-Dorries-gives-view/story-22927469-detail/story.html

    76. Thirteen says:

      I keep asking this very simple question, which never seems to get an answer – why do so many on the No side put a negative spin on the word “foreigner” in their articles and arguments? Are foreigners bad? It’s a hilariously insular viewpoint.

      Also, does anyone else think Brown’s advert looks more like some sort of obituary than anything else? The doom and gloom from No continues, despite their desperate attempts of late to suggest that Yes is a “negative” campaign.

    77. Clootie says:

      @Juteman says:
      16 September, 2014 at 10:45 am

      “Why doesn’t the Yes campaign take out a full page advert with a random person off the street guaranteeing more powers?”

      I liked that 😀
      It put it in perspective.

    78. Juteman says:

      I see there is a new TV series starting on Thursday.
      ‘The Great British Spewing Bee’.

    79. James Kay says:

      However, former leader Alec Douglas-Home was still able to urge Scots to vote ‘no’ to Labour’s proposal in 1979, with the promise that a Conservative government would offer a “better” bill.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Perth

      Vote No on Thursday for a better Scotland.
      Former leader Gordon Brown ….

      Does he even know that he is echoing history?

    80. Jim McIntosh says:

      Just had another YouGov poll on Scottish Indy delivered to my inbox. So I’m guessing another YouGov poll out tomorrow.

      Seems to be exactly the same questions as I answered in the poll that first gave YES the lead a couple of weeks ago. I didn’t get an invite to participate in last weeks poll that was 48 Yes / 52 No.

    81. Devorgilla says:

      Have to admit I’m relieved that Rupert Murdoch had not backed us. That would have been a taint that would never leave.

    82. heedtracker says:

      From that 2006 Crash City speech

      “The message London’s success sends out to the whole British economy is that we will succeed if like London we think globally. Move forward if we are not closed but open to competition and to new ideas. Progress if we invest in and nurture the skills of the future, advance with light touch regulation, a competitive tax environment and flexibility. Grow even stronger if this is founded on a strong domestic market built on the foundation of stability.”

      They certainly kept to their “light touch regs” word. Flipper Darling says he only knew about RBS being run by a bunch of moronic greedy bastards was when Fred The Shred knocked on his Morningside back door and said no RBS bank or cash machine would be opened next morning over a nice warm cup of Flippers coco.

      That’s what Flipper says but then he was only the Chancellor of the Exchequer and he’d watched Northern Rock go belly up a year earlier. High finance at the Teasury eh? It’s just very very creepy watching these catastrophic incompetent lying conmen desperately trying to close down Scottish democracy.

    83. iheartScotland says:

      @BuckieBreas,
      ‘Better with Scotland’, they obviously haven’t been reading BTL on MSM recently.I can’t believe the vitriol against Scotland for daring to wish for a better future.

    84. Colin says:

      @ Kaspar

      And my father, rearguard action at Dunkirk, captured then force marched to Poland and spent five years in a Polish salt mine.
      He was stone deaf when he returned home.

    85. DavidDesu says:

      Isn’t the new powers “guaranteed” actually illegal to print when it really is unsubstantiated nonsense which has already come under fire from Tory MPs themselves…

    86. Wee jock poo-pong mcplop says:

      Kaspar, thanks for that timely quote. My father was also one of the thousands in the 51st abandoned at St Valery to because, as always, the Scots were disposable assets to the British state. Not much has changed in that culture. I’m a recent YES convert and this is a reminder of why. Caesar! gu snooker loopy!

    87. boris says:

      A series of discussions, (at the highest level) were conducted within the Scottish Regimental hierarchy pertaining to major organizational change, at the time Scottish soldiers were deployed to the war in Iraq and other operational areas. Although there was some dissemination of information at senior levels, this did not include junior ranks in case they became upset. The top dog in place was General, (keep them in the Dark) Loudon and he wishes things to stay as they are. I don’t think so.

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/09/16/another-general-adds-his-support-to-better-together/

    88. Onwards says:

      NHS ‘leaks’ are meaningless.
      They are ALWAYS trying to keep costs down.

      Less bureaucracy means more money to spend on treatments.

      We need to think of the big picture. Getting the powers to increase the OVERALL budget.

    89. Craig P says:

      dennis mclaughlin:

      Didnae ken Lochailort had a Post Office?

      Lochailort *is* a Post Office…

    90. Tam Jardine says:

      Better with Scotland is registered to a PO box in Westminster… Geoffrey Robinson is of course Geoffrey Robinson MP.

      A clever guy who has amassed a £30 million fortune and wants to use his vast wealth to help us in our democratic process.

      Wonder how much his adverts cost: it wouldn’t surprise me if it was somewhere in the region of £9999.99!

      It is so wonderful that all of these extremely well off donors want to help us make a decision on Thursday – they care so much about the people of Scotland!

      Organisations that were set up to fund additional advertising in the last few days of the campaign for Better Together under different names is a great way of getting the message across and avoiding any troublesome spending limits Better Together have to stick to.

      It just makes me wonder how much the UK government has spent campaigning directly and indirectly through rich parliamentarians like Geoffrey.

      The lengths the Westminster establishment will go to to assist Scotland make up her mind is astonishing.

    91. kalmar says:

      Luigi: Agreed. I’m going to imagine Mr Macdonald is a somewhat weather-beaten upper class gentleman with peculiar views, living out of an old army lorry somewhere in the forests outside Ft William.
      These people do exist, and you shouldn’t take any notice of them even if they can afford a full page Ad in the Sun.

    92. Papadox says:

      Big Gordy should no be allowed out unsupervised, and never, never be allowed to frighten and lie to the people of Scotland ever again. The man is unbalanced and deluded. That leaves the question who listens to this fool.

    93. Tam Jardine says:

      Kalmar

      I’m afraid the list of registered participants and large donors to the No campaign is made up of the ultra rich landowners and financiers, and of course MPS. It’s a nice idea to imagine the No campaign as crazy retired military types but is wrong.

    94. GG says:

      Nice fellow that Geoffrey Robinson telling the Scottish people how to vote today in that Ad
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1630568.stm
      Wonder if the workers at the pro union Daily Record know he received £200,000 from Robert Maxwell….probably from their pension fund.

      Other one… well…could be Angus MacDonald huge estate owner but much of the merchandising links go to
      Jack [dot] MacDonald [at] hotmail [dot] com who seems to be a local/Oban chartered accountant..busy post office Lochailort…Confused who they are or dishonest who knows?

    95. piggy says:

      Mike says:
      16 September, 2014 at 11:42 am
      “how gullible do people have to be to be taken in by this level of school ground campaigning?

      They simply have nothing to express but anxiety.

      NO is empty, it is a vacuum.

      YES is vibrant and full of life. Renewal is sweet.

    96. Papadox says:

      EBC 24
      Having a Labour only day. Can’t get fairer than that. Let’s the YES camp have a rest day, bless em.

    97. Edulis says:

      I had a wee surprise this morning when I opened up with my neighbour on the oncoming vote on Thursday. I introduced the topic by asking her if she was preparing for Thursday and at the same time saying I was excited by it. She responded positively. I said, “Have you seen the Wee Blue Book.” “Yes” she said, “I have read it on-line.”

      Stuart, you have done wonders for our ability to share ideas and to re-invigorate politics. Nothing is going to be the same again.

    98. heedtracker says:

      Its not the Daily Show but a knock off now doing Scotland. Rowling made her money with an English star and a ginger side kick…

      http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152352075769327&fref=nf

    99. HandandShrimp says:

      Jim

      I think YouGov are doing a big sample (presumably 2,000+) for the Sun for Thursday if I read Kelner correctly. So it may be that one.

    100. Capella says:

      On the other hand, the Sun front page appeared to be predicting a YES win today (didn’t buy it of course, saw it at the newsagent). If it had come out for YES I might have bought it as a souvenir.
      Another appalling shouty interrupty interview of Alec Salmond on GMS this morning while AD gets all the time in the wold to develop his “thoughts”. Soon all this will pass!

    101. katsoft says:

      come on guys not everything the Bitter mob say is a lie. I heard Alexander mention Thursday 18th as being the voting day. Unless they’re going to change it to Wed 17th and not tell any of us, only chance they’ve got. Gonna be a big slap in the face for pollsters as they are proved to be snake oil salesmen.

    102. muttley79 says:

      @Bugger

      I remember Tom Clarke, but I don’t know how or why.

      You were not drunk one night and… 😀

    103. Drunken Hobo says:

      Well, I was for independence, but due to my pathological hatred of foreigners this has really made me reconsider my position.

    104. Les Wilson says:

      Brown now deserves a yellow straight jacket, he is a bumbling deceitful idiot. Who needs real help by some top doctors, as his case may defeat medical science.

      Ref the adverts, I would like to find out who paid for this ie see the actual account. I have this something nagging me, was it really Westminster, he Majesty’s Government?
      After all they were paying BT internet ads!
      By the way, on complaining about that to the E/C, they confirmed my email and said they would get back as soon as poss, no reply came. In thrall methinks!

    105. boris says:

      Another General supports Better Together. But this is what he had to say about the MoD and cut’s in the Army. Quite how he sleeps at night defeats me.

      “We had to come up with a solution, we couldn’t just go back to Whitehall (MoD) without one, they would have just imposed it. Inevitably it was enormously painful, because this is the ultimate change.”

      He reflects: “What people find hard to accept is that the commitment and determination of our soldiers is not reflected in the way the Treasury is constantly driving down the costs, and the balance between having the right manpower and procurement – which always costs too much and takes too long.”

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/09/16/649/

    106. Helena Brown says:

      As I see it YES is the future, NO is the past. The future may be scary but not as scary as the past.

    107. YESGUY says:

      Had a wee shop in Dalkeith and found BT campaigners hard at work. Not one under 60 years. I was ignored as they saw my Wings badge but i did ask quietly why they were voting for a foriegn country ruling over their children. No answer only a mumble and some thing about you Wingers causing trouble.

      I left them to there business and got home to find them at the local shops. Again over 60’s and again ignored once they saw my Badges. I was nice , asking them how they are doing and heard the usual reply of ” fine everyone wants a badge or sticker.

      never saw a local with one so not sure how they are doing but most folk shook their heads politely as they passed.

      I am no spring chicken myself but i see so many pensioners out touting union promises. Surely these folk know that they always lie.

      I think they are quite selfish too. Going on about pensions and mortgages but ignoring the food banks and like.

      Most YESSERS say they want a fairer country. Equality and a voice for all. Old BT – whats in it for me ??

      Tick tock

      still excited as hell YES posters up everywhere and my flags are getting viewed by buses every 10 minutes.

      not long now folks.

    108. Paul Murphy says:

      @Liquid Lenny

      Ms Dorries is my local MP – I already wrote to her about these unfortunate remarks, particular references to “we” and “them” – I thought we were all “One Nation”, “Better Together” etc., etc., etc., … I await a reply….

    109. schrodingers cat says:

      david cameron heading to Dundee

      um “call me Dan, not Desperate”

      hi Lanakist

      see ya the morn

    110. desimond says:

      Who honestly sat down and thought “Get Gordon Brown!”

      The guy is toxic. Epitome of yesterdays men that is getting cleared away once and for all by Thursdays vote.

    111. Keith Hynd says:

      So! Are we to assume from this that saggy face Rupert will not be backing the YES campaign ? 🙂

    112. call me dave says:

      Beattie Programme Radio Scotland. Polling expert.

      Coo! The uninformed are more likely to vote NO.
      Also the young & Women more undecided/ NO.

      Cautionary note: There is risk on both sides so it’s all up in the air too close to call he says.

      McWhirter & Torrance. on now.

      McWh: NO’s Last stand.

      Clegg = Vow. Sceptisism!
      Gordon = Nothing new except NHS will increase mabees aye,
      maybees naw?

      Torr. (the tory)

      Bit of a gap between the three sets of new powers.

      Unionist parties have a good track record on promises. (Aye!)

      Not possible to state new powers after folk have put in postal votes, should have been done a year ago.

      Torrance: More to the vote than new powers or money.

    113. Clarinda says:

      Strange – never ever been contacted before by polling companies. Yesterday it was Survation and this morning You Gov and Survation again? Exactly the same questions from Survation both times.

      Lovely analogy from Yousaf Humza who likened the type of malicious panic measures, illustrated above in the Scottish Sun, to someone out of time and with no imagination dashing into a late-night garage to buy the last cheap bunch of wilted flowers.

    114. Malc says:

      Saw a stunning display for YES in Alloway yesterday , near village centre, had lots of big YES’s and banner re Burns for YES. Excellent display especially there where many will be voting for their wallets.

    115. desimond says:

      Cant believe Wampum hasnt appeared on first article that actually references Passports

      Cue a “Belfast!” scream somewhere!

    116. heedtracker says:

      Awe sweet, they think they’re journalists. Even this is 1.30 mins of vote NO or else. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29217994

    117. Phil says:

      Just remember, The truth will set us all free.

    118. K1 says:

      They are attempting to normalise that voting No is the(default)normal position. This is keeping many of what they consider thier core voters comfy; the ‘silent majority’ narrative’ plays into the egos’ of those ‘who know what’s best for us’. They will let us know the ‘true state of affairs’ on Friday. Then we’ll realise the ‘fantasy world’ we are all living in.

      Murphy reinforces this aspect strongly, with his reprimanding ‘call the dogs off snp’ rhetoric, further infantalising the Yes side as unruly misguided and out of control; ultimately ‘if this is how they behave, they ‘certainly can’t be trusted to run the country’, inferences running through his incessant victim rhetoric.

      I’ve always considered that the 19th will ultimately show just how many have become totally conditioned by the overarching consensus that is generated by the constant exposure to news channels, telly in general, papers etc, that they simply can’t conceive of the world in any other terms other than the one that is reflected back at them through these portals. The effect of this is that people have internalised so deepy and invisibly, a proscribed ‘reality’, that is never challenged or questioned from the inside.

      Once you understand that, it simply makes sense why the anger and the lashing out and blaming is all that is left. Because there is no acceptance of what is actually now being reflected back from those same trusted reliable sources, thier world is (for them) being ‘torn apart’, they are ‘fighting’ for thier very existence. And so the rhetoric and bias that we see clearly, they don’t perceive that, they hear the clarion call of people on thier side.

      They, the spin merchants, they know this game inside out, it’s all about control. They know the truth that pretty much of all of what has been said by the Yes side, stacks up. There really isn’t going to be a Macopalypse when we win. Amd because they have no legitimate well reasoned counter argument for staying in the political union, they have been left with nothing to do but attack and smear the Yes side. And those that have relied upon the reflection of that proscribed reality ‘follow’ those ‘dog whistles’. They do not realise they are merely pawns in the bigger (more lucrative) game that those in the establishment are really fighting for: thier power and position.

      I do think, feel and sense that we will win, regardless of the bombardment from the naysayers. They have profoundly underestimated the yearning for change, not just here in Scotland, but in the rest of these isles too.

      They’ve had thier day, it’s time for change. We are now unstoppable.

    119. cockney lad says:

      There are, of course, some precedents:

      “Concessions to adversaries only end in self reproach, and the more strictly they are avoided the greater will be the chance of security.”
      Thucydides

      “For the love of gain would reconcile the weaker to the dominion of the stronger, and the possession of capital enabled the more powerful to reduce the smaller cities to subjection.”
      Thucydides

      “In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again.”
      Edward Gibbon

    120. Phil says:

      The Fourth Estate is dead, there was a funeral. Long live the Fifth Estate. My prediction, 84% turn out, Yes 66% No 44%.

    121. Caeilte Reid says:

      Lots of interest here in Republic of Ireland – we are watching.

      Apologies for “our man” Sir Bob Geldof who sounded like a simpleton in London yesterday evening “…UK the best invention of the modern world. Every other place close by is a dream”
      I dont think his intervention will sway anyone – but his lecture does add to the sense in Ireland that the Scots are being shouted down by others telling them how to vote.

      Be brave Scotland – ignore the noise. You are all posed what seems like a simple question – Who do you think will goven you best ? Those politicians that are closer and anserable to voters in Scotland or benign (at best) MPs you dont vote for? Historically most independence polls are passed – for this reason alone. Democracy at a local level.

      All other issues will be decided later (hopefully for you and by your own politicians)

      Beir buadh

    122. Cal says:

      Sorry O/T but VERY VERY important. Many voters have not received their polling cards and probably won’t in time for the referendum. Many are saying people in places where Yes support is strong are wost hit by this scam. Please spread the word that YOU DO NOT NEED A POLLING CARD TO VOTE.

    123. marydoll says:

      I see that now the power is going to be cut off…….havent they heard of renewables?

    124. Penderyn says:

      Most of my friends are already foreigners anyway. And my daughter is half foreign. Doesn’t mean I think any less of them. For me, as a Welshman, a Scot is a Scot. He/She comes from another country, and is proud of it. As I am to be Welsh. Scot is not Welsh, therefore “foreign”. Big deal. The beer still tastes the same when he buys the round.

    125. Dal Riata says:

      Cannae mind if it was yesterday or the day before, but there was a BT dude with his Vote No posters telling a TV reporter in Selkirk, I think it was, that people were scared to put them up on their windows because their windows would be broken with stones, or egged… lying scum – but, hey, this is UK broadcast media where anything is allowed if it smears the Yes campaign.

      Oh yes, they also showed Rory the Tory’s music concert [sic] for his Hands across the Border/Build a Cairn/whatever campaign. Subtle editing made it seem that there were, oh, 12 people there, instead of the true number of about 10! Comedy gold!

    126. A.N.Surgent says:

      So EU and Ukraine ratify associaton agreement in what is said to be one of the worst performing economies in the world. No place for Scotland?

    127. call me dave says:

      BBC bigging up Gordo…Alastair has been ousted, as has Cameron.. it must be true it’s on BBC.

      Gordo.. I can hear you telling lies and see the collapsible magic wand up your sleeve, it’s an old trick from 1979.

      He running out of cards to manipulate too.
      NHS safe in my hands! Aye right!

      Someone yesterday posted a list of Westminster MPs with seats on the boards of health providing companies waiting on more privatisation, which is coming soon.

      Vote YES.

    128. bjsalba says:

      Just back from vote this week deliveries.

      Out to see a couple of don’t knows, then I will rest to recoup my strength for tomorrow ad Thursday.

    129. desimond says:

      Betfair paying out…I wonder where they pay Tax?

      Betfair Group plc is the world’s largest Internet betting exchange. The company is based in Hammersmith in West London, England. In 2011 Betfair went offshore and became registered and licensed in Gibraltar, since 9 March 2011 its betting exchange operated under an offshore licence

    130. msean says:

      Kenny MacAskill,well said that man. “three desperate men” 🙂

    131. heedtracker says:

      Giant boost for most unpopular prime minister ever from BBC lunchtime, as Gordon is now head of bettertogether, will save the union and ofcourse David Cameron as Prime Minister too. How’s about that then guys n girls for BettertogetherBBC irony.

      Can they reach enough voters though, BBC in Scotland going apeshit over £400000000 gazillion NHS short fall but only if you vote YES, you stupid little Scottish people.

      Whatever happens, BBC in Scotland has got to go.

    132. desimond says:

      @Phil

      Im willing to bet your mistaken

    133. David Stevenson says:

      Phil: 66+44=110…..

    134. Elizabeth says:

      O/t
      Tom Bradby , Political Editor at ITV is not pleased. He is finding the Yes campaign rather unpleasant…

      “…Alex Salmond has barely set foot inside the House of Commons for a decade and yet on the question of a currency union he claims to know what politicians there are going to do better than they do themselves – and certainly better than all those Westminster analysts whose job it is to talk to these people and study their mindsets, day in day out. It is frankly absurd. Anyone who lived through the Euro crisis at Westminster knows that, but point it out and you are guaranteed a volley of abuse….”

      http://www.itv.com/news/2014-09-16/i-have-a-confession-to-make-i-am-not-enjoying-covering-the-scottish-referendum/

    135. Seasick Dave says:

      Phil

      That makes 110%.

      Too many dead people must have voted.

    136. chalks says:

      Desimond, not sure what that has to do with them paying out early.

      Seems a bit foolish by them, folk saying they might have prior information of the TNS poll, but personally I think it’s because they expect the decision to mirror Quebec.

    137. chalks says:

      From Anon on Scotgoespop:

      This betfair talk is absolute absolute pish. It is categorically not true. If it was true the market would still not be open and the odds certainly wouldn’t be at 1.28 were they pretty much have been the last few days with no change whatsoever. There will be movement later when polls come out. If that info was already out there the odds would have began going down for NO already, back to the levels they were at for most of the campaign. This hasn’t happened.

      Anyone who knows anything about Betfair or who uses the site knows this is absolute utter trash talk. People can close position and trade out any time on exchanges, to lock in a profit, or accept a loss. That is a very different thing from the market actually being settled which it categorically hasn’t.

      If it was all over on the betting exchanges the board would be clear, and all that would be left would be 1.01 to lay against NO and 1.01 to back on YES, from the cheeky chaps who do that sort of thing when the result is undecided.

      Give no credence to this kind of talk. If anyone had inside info on tonight’s polls the markets would be changing, and right now they are as static as they have been for days.

      Never trust the Torygraph.

    138. msean says:

      Says sportbook only? As Betfair users know,there is the exchange and there is the sportsbook. Gimmick.

    139. Phil says:

      Yeah I see that, makes me look dumb. I’ll blame it on my passion for the cause.

    140. desimond says:

      @chalks

      Its just a publicity gimmick and possible a headline grabber encouraged by a nudge from a Lobbying friend who has been told “scratch my back..” at Westminster but people are beyond newspapers now.

      Im sitting with my Yes bet on at Bet365 and still confident there’ll be money for the foodbank kitty on Friday.

    141. Nigel says:

      I note the Times have added AS name to their list of axis of evil dictators.

      With friends lie these, who needs enemies…

    142. ChrisB says:

      chalks says @ 1:11 pm

      Betfair paying out on a No win

      “The online bookmaker says it is paying out a “six-figure sum”.

      Probably more cost-effective and much easier than donating a six-figure sum for BT advertising. Not that cost is a factor for them anyway:

      “Betfair Group PLC had revenues for the full year 2014 of 393.6M GBP. This was 1.7% above the prior year’s results.”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-how-the-betting-industry-keeps-mps-onside-8488393.html

    143. Quentin Quale says:

      ‘Now Betfair. if you do this for us we’ll continue with the tax avoidance scheme’.

    144. chalks says:

      Aye Desimond, from everything I hear, things are going well, I doubt the NHS thing will make much difference either to be honest, as reading the bloody thing it is a reason for independence!

    145. Joe Swan says:

      I was recently asked by two newly engaged and wavering Nos where all the money has come from to fund the Yes and No campaigns.

      They are not on the internet, so I am going to print out the following:

      http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/campaign-spending-and-donations-at-referendums/donations-and-loans-reported-by-campaigners-at-the-scottish-referendum

      And the excellent piece the Rev did on the companies and ‘gentlemen’ who are concerned about the future of our country. Not.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-gold-plated-grassroots/

      Every last doubtful No vote to Yes is a winner in my book.

      I would also like to thank the MSM and the BBC for helping me convert so many Nos to Yes in the last few weeks.

    146. I was proud of my wee 16-year-old grand-daughter this morning. She is due to go off on a school trip to the First World War battlefields, on Friday morning.

      But, she is determined to be up early and to be there when the polling station opens at 7am, so she can cast her Yes vote.

      And there was me thinking her head was full of fashion, boys and pop music.

    147. It’s old age, my grand-daughter is going to France on Thursday, not Friday.

    148. fred blogger says:

      Cal
      i’ve posted that to other sites, it may be just postal delays who knows, but right enough the info is vital.

    149. Colin says:

      @David Stevenson

      Phil: 66+44=110…..

      The sentiment was correct if not the arithmetic, unless Phil meant the figures were after the no side done their calculations using the Alexander calculator.

    150. desimond says:

      Wow,i take it back, the BBC are okay, the reporting and journalism are of the highest quality

      BBC News 24 just now:

      “Hi, youre a Conservative MP, where do you stand on Thursdays vote?”

      cue open floor

    151. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the ("Tractor" - Ed) moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the ("Tractor" - Ed) appears not a ("Tractor" - Ed); he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

      Marcus Tullius Cicero

    152. h_johnny says:

      What is going on with this ‘leaked’ NHS document about cuts after the referendum? The No campaign seem to think they have found the holy grail to beat us down with.

    153. A.N.Surgent says:

      You dont actually need your polling card, as it says on the card itself. ” This card is for information only. You can vote without it, but it will save time if you take it to the polling station and show it to the staff there”

      I would advise taking something with your address on it.

    154. Iain says:

      Stu – you say A. Macdonald is a demented racist, though a quick skim through his page doesn’t seem to have anything definitely racist in it – though you can well imagine…is he in the BNP?

      Anyway, he has a site selling BT propaganda:
      http://www.proudtobescots.co.uk/#!projects/c21kz
      He sells banners at cost, apparently: £100 + £10 p&p.

      The ‘Humour’ section of the site is so lame that it inspires pity. What must life be like if your brain functions at such a low level?

      I’d give very, very short odds on him being local and sane.

    155. MochaChoca says:

      For a very stark illustration of why Westminster is so reluctant for us to go and why Scotland will be very successful please refer to page 15 of this ONS report:

      http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_371775.pdf

      The key to a successful economy is production.

    156. Marco McGinty says:

      O/T

      I received a SLAB leaflet through the post today (unsolicited I must add), full of the nonsense we have come to expect. However, the interesting part is in the small print. A Scottish political party, campaigning on a Scottish political issue, has chosen to ignore the entire Scottish print industry, and get their leaflets printed in England.

      I’ve put a photo on my Flickr page, however I’m not on Facebook or Twitter, so I’m hoping that the good people of Wings can send this far and wide.

      https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomcginty/15070704627/

      Many thanks.

    157. desimond says:

      Fraserburgh fisherman on BBC News saying “Im not voting, its my right not to vote”

      Pathetic.

    158. Flooplepoop says:

      @Bugger(the Panda)
      Very apt quote.

    159. john king says:

      just had a work mate approach me this morining asking my opinon of how the vote will go, I said its too close to call, he said he’s still a no but then went onto ask me how will we do this how will we do that, I asnwered him and he went off with the last WWB! 🙂 the winds of change?

    160. BrianW says:

      @ Desimond 1.48pm

      I also like how the BBC are highlighting Cameron’s Revolt amongst his own MP’s.. Oh hang on.. they’re not..

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11098825/David-Cameron-faces-Tory-bloodbath-over-unfair-cash-for-Scotland.html

      How could you vote No after reading that and still claim we’re Better Together, uKOK. Pish!

      This is definitely a campaign where people are finding out their information online. And when they see what is going on they realise that the Establishment are lying, and have been lying to us for decades. More and more of us are saying this must stop.

      The only way to do this is to VOTE YES.

    161. Now's the Hour says:

      Been hearing that there’s a big rally/party to be held in George/Independence Square on Friday at 12 noon. Can anyone confirm or deny?
      Noticed this morning that the Donald Dewar statue at the Concert Hall steps was festooned with a big YES saltire.

    162. john king says:

      A staunch no voter approached me with questions at work this morning, went away with my last wbb. winds of change?

    163. chalks says:

      Well a no voter has just spoken to us all, she was at Cameron’s speech last night. She says Cameron isn’t speaking as a politician but as a subject of the UK.

      We are still laughing.

    164. liz says:

      I see the pay-wall in the herald is down so they could bombard us with ‘The Pledge’ and the Herald has come out for No – what a surprise – but only if we get extra powers.

      I’ve got news for you Herald – we won’t.

      But the best bit is if you click onto the front page on-line, up pops 3 vote Yes posters.

    165. Edulis says:

      We need to remind ourselves that Gordon Brown has a great deal to lose here- even more than Lord John Reid. Not only does he have his MP’s salary and expenses which should be more than enough for anyone but he also has a windfall £150k a year as an ex-PM just to keep him in the status that he doesn’t deserve.

      Funny how all this frantic effort to shore up the Labour ‘No’ vote is getting even more frantic. It all seemed to kick off with the 10K poll which never saw the light of day but which was paid for by taxation and given to Blair McDougall and then came the Yougov poll showing a ‘yes’ lead. I am convinced that the poll under wraps was offering the same message, but this time they couldn’t hide it. Headless chickens doesn’t cover it!

    166. o/t (Luddite) RT channel and Web site covering Scottish Independence inspiring others accros Europe.

    167. Colin says:

      Here is a question for you all.

      When Scotland becomes independent, who will pay for the security and the wages of the ex PMs Brown and Blair?

      I am hoping it will be rUK and we will not be sadled with the expense.

    168. Quentin Quale says:

      Edulis – the money he is drawing in from his, erm, charity will more than compensate for his pin money being taken away.

    169. Free Scotland says:

      The slogan “better with Scotland” betrays a certain mindset: it is the independence issue seen from a Westminster perspective, i.e. we, the Westminster elite, are better with Scotland. The Westminster mob don’t give a monkey’s about the fact that we in Scotland are worse off staying with them.

    170. liz says:

      The herald have their pay-wall down so we can read all the nonsense re The Pledge.

      they have also said they are supporting No but only if we get more powers – I’ve got news for them – we won’t.

      The best bit is if you open up on-line, the front page has 3 Yes posters.

    171. Chic McGregor says:

      ProudScotButts – Public School boys with canes.

      Cartoon fodder?

    172. Midgehunter says:

      “Fraserburgh fisherman on BBC News saying “Im not voting, its my right not to vote””

      Anybody know who the Broch fisherman is? I’ll get my folk onto him, pronto.

    173. Edulis says:

      QQ. The problem with that is that he will have no ex-anything status when we go independent. Who wants to listen to pay £50K a shot to listen to a dodo? His charity(?) will fold soon after.

    174. Donny Mac says:

      A MacDonald, Lochailort?
      Could that be Angus at Roshven House? Look him up at http://www.roshvenhouse.com . He even gives his phone number. Should we all phone him up and bid him the time of day?

    175. manandboy says:

      Dear Scottish No Voters,

      I am writing this today to be broadcast on Friday
      because by then I’ll be sozzled on champagne, thanks to you.
      By the way, I had the bubbly sent over from Westminster,
      but that’s our little secret.

      I want to thank all of you who voted No
      even though you knew deep down
      you should have voted Yes – as all the sensible people did.

      I couldn’t have done it of course,
      without a totally compliant BBC, STV and the Press and Radio
      who did such a great job in topping up the daily diet of
      lies and scaremongering which proved so effective
      in persuading so many of you, especially the elderly, to vote No.

      I want to thank all my union supporting friends
      in Scotland for paying the ultimate price
      in sacrificing your country
      and at such great future cost to yourselves
      and to your families
      who will now endure decades of poverty and misery.

      This is the way it has to be in order to save England.
      Well, actually, just the little bit of England where I live.

      You see, there’s something I haven’t told you Scots
      and it’s terribly important for us down in London.
      Scotland is very,very,very wealthy, almost beyond belief,
      because of oil and gas.
      Scotland is surrounded by billions of tons of oil.
      I have kept quiet about it for many years because
      we didn’t want to upset you.

      But the thing is, you see, because the UK has so much debt
      and because it really does cost an awful lot of money
      to keep the super wealthy elite in a proper manner,
      well, Westminster has decided that we simply must
      have all your money – yes, all of it, for ever.

      Now I can only imagine that your lives will be very hard
      after the Referendum, and for generations to come,
      but it won’t be so bad, disease and hunger will soon lead
      to a premature death for many Scots, and let’s face it,
      dying isn’t so bad, now is it?

      And one day, perhaps by accident, you might just catch a glimpse
      of a blinding white light coming from the west,
      and after that you’ll have no more worries. Trust me.

      Excuse me a moment, I just want to top up my champagne glass.
      Now, where was I? Oh, Yes. I mean of course, Oh No!
      It’s those No votes that are going to make all that I have said above come true after all.

      I’m sure you all understand why I had to do this and I do thank
      you all for your understanding and patience.

      I doubt very much if I’ll be seeing you all again, so,

      Cheerio then,

      Your Prime Minister,

      David Cameron.

      Ps. One last word of thanks to the Labour Party in Scotland
      who actually did all the dirty work for me. I’ll send along a few beers later in appreciation. Well done!

    176. scotspine says:

      Midgehunter, think he was working in the fishmarket and the title said “trader”. He sounded like he had a kinda Geordie accent, not a local accent.

    177. Iain says:

      whoops – previous post – I meant very, very long odds!

    178. ChrisB says:

      Clegg’s signature on the pledge appears to have been written in disappearing ink – how appropriate – or is it a join-the-dots puzzle to appeal to a younger demographic?
      http://i4.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article4265480.ece/alternates/s615b/1.jpg

      Sorry, I forgot, mustn’t use the world “pledge” – might give some people the wrong idea:
      http://mugsysrapsheet.com/4blog/Pledge_turd_polish.jpg

    179. Chic McGregor says:

      Manandboy

      Who leaked this? It has to be illegal because none of the official leak channels, the Treasury, the BBC, Jackie Baillie, would ever have passed this on.

    180. gillie says:

      “Tory bloodbath’ over devolution The Daily Telegraph reports that Prime Minister David Cameron faces a Tory “bloodbath” over further devolution.

      The article follows comments from Tory MP Christopher Chope on the BBC at the weekend in which he said there may be enough Tory MPs to block any additional powers going to the Scottish Parliament following a “No vote”.

      SNP MP Angus Robertson said: “The Westminster revolt against any more powers for Scotland is up and running, and exposes the utter deceit at the heart of the No campaign that additional powers would follow a No.””

      The Westminster backlash has begun. They are busy sharpening their bayonets.

    181. scotspine says:

      EDF Energy Boss reported on Sky as coming out against Independence. Letter to 1200 Scottish staff warning of the consequences of an Independent Scotland.

      Another trougher.

    182. Lesley-Anne says:

      Don’t worry about wee Gordy Broon folks. I hear he is going to stand in the 2016 election for Holyrood just so he can show Alex Salmond what a massively huge bruiser he really is, Broon I mean. 😛

      Oh if anyone was wavering about voting YES or NO then I can confirm that today the Scottish Border Force started putting up the necessary border check points.

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=741867922551828&set=gm.285377198325873&type=1

    183. Capella says:

      RE the Health “leaked” document. Maybe they want to divert attention from the car crash that is the English NHS documented in the Guardian.
      http://tinyurl.com/mwyo3nh
      “Insiders say that figures due out on Friday are far worse than expected and likely to make “grim reading” for health secretary Jeremy Hunt. Hunt has already given hospitals more than £1bn of extra funding over the last year to help them cope with winter pressures and tackle a mounting backlog of operations, which recently reached a six-year high.”

    184. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oops, I forgot to add this sad news news about the almost non existent oil field West of Shetland. 😉

      https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=870348219643191

    185. Snode1965 says:

      Scotland is the last captive forced to sook on the Imperial teet. The Empire is past her fruitful years, and only producing a little sour milk. Time to break free from these shackles and flourish!

    186. Greannach says:

      I think the Lochailort nutjob website it a spoof. It claims some items are for sale, but there’s no way to buy them. It suggests getting involved but features at broken link to the No Better Together Thanks UKOK site. It claims to have a humour section, but the side splitting takes remind me more of my nephew’s jokes when he was about 4 or 5.

    187. Clootie says:

      I like the sound of Independence Square!

    188. dadsarmy says:

      I’m quite disgusted with the Herald. Not because it’s supporting NO but because it’s thick as mince if it thinks there’s any chance of the pledge being kept. I thought there was more brains, apparently it’s only sludge.

      As if Cameggiband is going to pay any attention to them when it’s all over: “we back staying within UK, but only if there’s more far-reaching further devolution”.

      Thick as mince.

    189. ChrisB says:

      scotspine @ 2:48 pm
      EDF Energy Boss reported on Sky as coming out against Independence. Letter to 1200 Scottish staff warning of the consequences of an Independent Scotland.

      Another trougher.

      Not just any trougher, he’s Gordon’s brother:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Brown_%28media_strategist%29

      Current title seems to be
      “Brand Sustainability and External Communications Director”

    190. alanfrompaisley says:

      In the herald and Telegraph online Betfair are paying out on no bets ?

      No point hoing to vote on the 18th then lol

      VOTE YES

    191. Macart says:

      @Dadsarmy

      A damning caveat if ever there was one. 🙂

      We’re only for it if…

      And they’ll guarantee significant powers or indeed hold oath breakers to account how precisely? They’ll use harsh language perhaps? Throw a hissy fit? 😀

      They were always no better than the rest, they simply had a better spell checker.

    192. scotspine says:

      ChrisB

      Thanks for the clarification.

      You won’t hear the media state that though.

    193. bald eagle says:

      Tom Devine: UK is a failed state, with inept and inadequate governance
      SIR Tom Devine, the leading historian, has claimed the UK is a “failed state,” as he predicted

      the herald dont worry the paywall is down

    194. DaveDee says:

      O/T re Betfair paying out on No

      Just another Tory Supporting Big Business backing No,

      It probably wont cost them that much as the odds were mostly long odds-on and the probably didn’t take that many bets on it.

      A six figure sum paid out could be £120,000 and because of the very short odds they would have taken most of that in on the original bets.

      At odds of 5-1 on (and most of the time the odds were a lot shorter than that) To get £120,000 back you would gave to bet £100,000 in the first place to it would have cost Betfair £20,000 in total .

      So for this possible £20,000 cost (a drop in the ocean for a company like Betfair) they get free advertising and also to help out their friends in high places no doubt hoping for something in return.

      It’s also meant to boost the flagging No campaign and sow doubt in the minds of Yes voters. Quite possibly a pre-arranged stunt organised between BT and Betfair.

      Just treat it like any other BT propaganda.

      There is absoulutely no way a betting company can confidently predict the outcome of this referendum based on betting patterns alone.

      .

    195. Helena Brown says:

      I took advantage of the paywall being down at the Herald, now I seem to be in constant moderation. What fun, I see they still have the OBE from Woking, well that is one without a vote.

    196. Peter G says:

      They never clarify that Aggreko is owned by that tub of lard, Conservative Mp and Scion of the Churchill family, Nicky Soames’ brother when that company rants against Scottish Democracy.

      Sins of Omission and Commission the guardians of truth. Not being of the Papal persuasion I forget what the other one is.

    197. alanfrompaisley says:

      In the herald and Telegraph online Betfair are paying out on no bets ?

      No point hoing to vote on the 18th then lol

      VOTE YES.

    198. K1 says:

      Don’t know if many have seen this from the Lancet on 10th September 2014, just a wee timely reminder about what the true reality of TTIP means for Scottish NHS.

      Privatisation of the Scottish NHS: TTIP and independence

      http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2961408-2/fulltext

    199. Mariaskid says:

      Anyone know how the vote was organised for those Scots serving in the army. Were they issued with postal votes?

    200. ChrisB says:

      Oops! Should have said earlier that the EDF announcement was made by Vincent de Rivaz, who is the CEO of EDF Energy.
      Gordon Brown’s brother Andrew is the External Communications Director.

    201. call me dave says:

      @DaveDee

      Thanks for that. I agree, they have a list of whiz bangs and wheezes that we will be subject to in the next 2 days.
      Ignore them vote YES.

      Whiz bang: WWI shell that you only heard for a brief moment before it exploded.

      Wheeze :clever or amusing scheme, idea, or trick

    202. alistair says:

      IT’S FALLING APART ALREADY (as commented on earlier)
      Hope Stu can Highlight this in an article this evening as all the press read Wings. Lets make this tomorrows newspaper topic.

      “Tory bloodbath’ over devolution The Daily Telegraph reports that Prime Minister David Cameron faces a Tory “bloodbath” over further devolution.

      The article follows comments from Tory MP Christopher Chope on the BBC at the weekend in which he said there may be enough Tory MPs to block any additional powers going to the Scottish Parliament following a “No vote”.

    203. Andy-B says:

      These two ad are also in the anti-Scottish and ultra unionist Daily Record, the London owned Daily Record can barely hide its contempt, for those voting yes to independence.

    204. alistair says:

      Please spread this on facebook as far as you can….

      Tory backbenchers vow to block ‘on the hoof’ promise to sustain higher Scottish funding

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11098825/David-Cameron-faces-Tory-bloodbath-over-unfair-cash-for-Scotland.html

      David Cameron faces Tory ‘bloodbath’ over ‘unfair’ cash for Scotland

    205. desimond says:

      @Midgehunter
      Fishermen!
      Right Now being repeated on BBC News 24

    206. alistair says:

      In Telegraph,regarding new powers and funding,

      “It’s all happening on the hoof, in cliquey conversations on telephones in Downing Street. It isn’t happening, and there are a number of us who are incensed who will make sure it isn’t going to happen. But let’s see what the results are first.”

    207. scotspine says:

      @Midgehunter

      Steven McClean Fish Trader.

    208. liz says:

      Re the ‘leaked document’ on NHS cuts post indy – Dr Eoin Clark, labour member, who is a No supporter – we should fight together etc – states quite categorically that the Scottish NHS will be affected by privatisation of the NHS in England.
      He quotes the IFS.

      He has refused to support a Dougie Alexander tweet stating the opposite.

      All the MSM are running with this scare story big time – the EBC – Scottish branch, will run this on loop

    209. liz says:

      @Helena Brown – the Herald paywall is only down so they can broadcast wall to wall propaganda over the next 2 days

    210. galamcennalath says:

      Nice intervention from the Telegraph! Spread the word!

    211. Graeme Doig says:

      K1

      Great link and a must read for challenging misapprehension amongst undecideds if we’re out and about.

    212. Kevin Evans says:

      Hmmmm that post about lawyers and the Scottish Polish community – is that really the best counter argument we can put together after all the lies told by BT?

      How do we sign up to ("Tractor" - Ed) watch?

    213. fred blogger says:

      alistair
      do you know how much extra cash has been promised?
      none, in fact it will be a reduction.

    214. MuchoGusto says:

      o/t Much hilarity in my household at my attempts to catch the bt athletes delivering crap through my letterbox ,They must wear running spikes.
      However I have a front hedge that I may resort to hiding behind.

    215. Lesley-Anne says:

      As we are now in the final stretch to our final victory I thought I’d link to these wee songs and stuff. (hope I dinnae upset the moderation monster 😉 )

      http://tinyurl.com/nvv3u6u

      http://tinyurl.com/ntnxds6

      http://andyclarksezaye.bandcamp.com/track/were-aw-votin-aye

      http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2014/09/15/ill-informed-cumbrians-readying-for-scottish-invasion/

      Keep the faith folks. We are winning this and we WILL emerge victorious on the 19th! 😛

    216. liz says:

      More from Dr Eoin Clark -In a speech to the Institute of Economic Affairs this week – Nov 2012 -, Tory MP Priti Patel called for Scotland to face billions of pounds of extra cuts.

      The Tory MP framed her discussion as a re-calculation of the Barnet Formula, and argued that the Tories should use SNP/Labour calls for greater devolution for Scotland as a chance to change the economic settlement, or in other words cut Scottish funding.

      In a speech to the Institute of Economic Affairs this week, Tory MP Priti Patel called for Scotland to face billions of pounds of extra cuts. The Tory MP framed her discussion as a re-calculation of the Barnet Formula, and argued that the Tories should use SNP/Labour calls for greater devolution for Scotland as a chance to change the economic settlement, or in other words cut Scottish funding.

    217. Wee Alex says:

      Betfair, what is really happening (fromFT blog)

      For a single novelty sportsbook market, the cost to the company of paying out early will be somewhere between negligible and nil.

      It is, in short, a publicity stunt. And it’s a rather good one. Better, certainly, than parking an octopus in Oxford Circus during rush hour.

    218. alistair says:

      @frewblogger.
      Ever since Gordon Brown came out with this out of a hat I knew it was a load of bull. They only did it coz they thought Brown was still popular up here in Scotland and the Tories and Liberals have been dragged along on the back of this. Even more remote is getting UKIP supporters to back this. The Westminster guys have an election and no way will they force this through. Its all bullshit.

    219. dadsarmy says:

      @Macart
      I had hopes of the Herald, though they have mostly just used releases from the BBC, Reuters, even Scotsman rather than do their own journalism and investigation. I hoped that Scotland would have just one paper that was decent rather than none, which is partly why I switched posting to the Herald once I accidentally got post-moderated.

      They are the only paper that’s grown circulation this year, on the back of posters like me BTL, and support from pro-Indy readers and viewers because of the more neutral stance (still unionist biased though). Well, we’ll be gone, and some of the unionists who disappeared after the Sunday Herald came out for YES. I won’t be sticking around after Thursday! Their circulation will plummet. Which is a shame.

    220. KenC says:

      I may be a little love-bomb happy, but I think The Courier has three pages like this today. Dundee’s home paper doing us proud as always. 😀

    221. boris says:

      Commenting on the Con/Dem government armed forces review Lord West gave warning.

      Defence cuts imperil our proud nation”, warned Lord West. “Have we really decided that this great maritime nation of ours only needs 13 frigates”. “Has there been any realistic assumption of the requirement of the number of frigates – and I’m talking frigates not destroyers and other things – or is the number 13 purely based on an arbitrary cost figure? “In the final analysis, the defence of the nation is the top priority for any nation of whatever hue and I do believe we are standing into danger.”

      And he has the audacity to criticize an Independent Scotland’s early proposals for defence. He is best ignored methinks.

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/09/16/admiral-lord-west-of-spithead-former-first-sea-lord-the-uk-is-sailing-into-danger/

    222. john b says:

      Anyone voting for Christopher Chope to be offered Honorary Citizenship of an independent Scotland?

    223. fred blogger says:

      just in from a friend of mine who lives in yorkshire.

      “I was a union convener in a large factory and you could always count on the Scots to bolster your efforts against the common enemy, the management.
      The three stooges have shown their hand, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Whatever they promised to give you as a goodwill token is nothing compared to what you will get if you stand your ground.

      Westminster have everything to lose, as have the rich toffs of the square mile who now make decisions on everything i don’t want.

      I am neither a proud Englishman, telling all and sundry what a “real shithole”, this once proud nation has become.

      Our government sits back and steals from those who are least able to fight back, is this a democracy?………………..is it fuck!!!!

      One thing is for certain, my head and my heart are with my northern friends, not those bastards who seek to hide the mortality statistics while pretending to represent me……………..”

    224. Quentin Quale says:

      I’d like to think that the people of Mexico, as they celebrate their Independence day, are thinking about us and raising a glass for Yes to an independent Scotland.

    225. john b says:

      Re: Lord West

      Surely the first priority of any government is to make a country worth defending……..

    226. liz says:

      The artist taxi driver giving us his support.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPJDXf-HPvc

    227. muttley79 says:

      Oh dear. The more powers talk is already going off the rails at a lightning speed. This from the Guardian:

      Brian Binley, the Conservative MP for Northampton South, has used a post on his blog to protest about the commitment from David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg (or quasi-commitment – quite what it means is not clear – see here) to protect the Barnett formula. Binely wrote:

      I resent that parliament has been ignored and subordinated in this debate: not that long ago, changes in government policy were explained first to parliament. And to top it all we are now told that the three leaders have promised to maintain a charitable situation wherein each Scottish citizen is rewarded with £1300 per year more than their English counterpart for public expenditure, and that without a by your leave from parliament. On this and many other issues parliamentarians haven’t been able to question those making ever more elaborate announcements as party leaders and not as Ministers. Many residents of Northampton thought that they had voted Gordon Brown out of office four years ago, only to find him swanning around making promises left, right and centre apparently with the authority of a government minister.

    228. alistair says:

      Channel 5 news were filming in Stirling at lunchtime today and took a street referendum poll of passers buy where you voted and put slip in a box. They said the “poll” results would be on air at 5pm tonight on Channel 5.
      Should be interesting – even if random and non scientific sample.

    229. Any “VOW” from BamCam and the Tories on Future Powers for Scotland is seriously flawed AND is belied by the fact that, in 2010, all the Tory voters in England and Scotland supported their own Mandate on Boundary Change Legislation that gains 20 x new tory seats in England – but EXCLUDES every tory in Scotland from representation at WM.

      After ABANDONING every tory voter in Scotland, BamCam is a signatory to a “VOW” that he knows he will ditch – BECAUSE – he has promised to enact this legislation if he wins the WM General Election in May next year.

      In 2012 the ConDem Govt`s ” Boundary Change Legislation – COMPLETED ” Second Reading ” in the Commons.
      Almost became LAW.

      The UNELECTED House of Lords belatedly struck it down – AFTER THEY REALISED – this ” BANNING ” of all Scots tories from WM – would be detrimental to their position during the current Indy Ref results.?

      Given their recent attempt to BAR Scots tories from the Commons – it is surely ridiculous for BamCam AND Clegg to “VOW” more to 400,000 Scots tory voters who have already voted to EXCLUDE THEMSELVES from the Commons where the Holyrood Budget has been CUT EVERY YEAR since 2009.

      BamCam and Clegg are offering an ILLUSION to 400,000 Scots tory voters who Pretend to Defend the heart of the Union that they wanted to abandon only 4 years ago.

      You couldnae make it up.

      AND the MSM are conveniently struck down with AMNESIA – and refuse to question these anomalies.?

    230. Macart says:

      It is a shame Dads. The media had this moment, this campaign to shine and failed miserably as a collective.

      On the upside though, people have learned a very valuable lesson about media and government. I don’t think its one we’ll soon forget either.

    231. Lesley-Anne says:

      Here he is again Liz, you hero, my hero EVERYONE’S hero the one, the only it’s the ATD! 😛

      http://tinyurl.com/narvltd

    232. call me dave says:

      Ed in Edinburgh?

      He looks a bit uncomfortable in a shopping centre being pursued by a few YES men. Well lots of yes men really 🙂

      Weasel words from Gordo.

      Do you thing we(labour I presume) would standby and watch the NHS in Scotland not to have the powers to save itself.

      SNHS has already been devolved but still rely on the Barnett formula that’s the point.

      Charlie K & Wullie R. back to back for the discredited Lib/dumbs, all too much for me on BBC live tv.

      He says that the UK will be unrecognisable after the 18th.
      That much is true. 😉

    233. Black Douglas says:

      @alistair

      “poll” results would be on air at 5pm tonight on Channel 5.

      Would’nt hold your breath on the result, if it showed a majority Yes i’m sure they would just tell us the opposite.

    234. desimond says:

      Wullie Rennie on BBC NEws 24 talking pish ( He even crowbarred in extra child-care of course) about what the devolved Scottish Govt will be able to do in future.

      Its slightly heartening to know that if it is NO, then he wont be in it!

    235. alistair says:

      @Back Douglas
      I’m not holding breath but good laugh. I was telling every Yes person I could see to get along and vote. They had a table on the street bedecked in Union Flag bunting so everyone thought it was some No stall and giving it a body swerve !!

    236. fred blogger says:

      tell the establishment we have made our minds up and the answer is a resounding; Aye aye we’re all voting AYE.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TswaJl1LZtU

    237. Nana Smith says:

      Gosh I’m so popular, which invite should I choose….

      Dear Nana Smith

      I am writing to invite you to our eve of referendum rally tomorrow.

      We know this is the most important vote in our history.

      We know that a No means better, safer, and faster change for Scotland.

      Our opponents are noisy but, on polling day, we will show that they are a noisy minority. We need your help to show that we can be just as loud our nationalist counterparts. That we can speak for Scotland’s silent majority.

      That’s why I am writing to invite you to our Love Scotland, Vote No rally at 11am on Wednesday morning in central Glasgow.

      Please register to attend here, and we will contact you with the location of the event later this evening.

      I hope to see you tomorrow morning.

      Best wishes,

      Gordon Brown MP

    238. T222Deracha says:

      Why don’t the YES campaign just tell voters “Team ATOS making more empty promises”. Simples.

    239. creag an tuirc says:

      Where’s the Rev? oot galavanting like we’ve already won? The final days are when there should be plenty of articles batting these bullshit stories away. The NHS, Tory MPs blocking devo and big clunking fists shite. I’m stressed oot and he’s not making it all better the way he usually does 🙂

    240. Doug Mcgregor says:

      NB Barnet formula to be retained , but unmodified? I think not.

    241. call me dave says:

      Poor Ed got the bums rush and smuggled out of town through a side entrance.

      Another unEDifying scene of labour leaders!, labour leaders mind you rushing about town in….I’ve gone into Neil Kinnock mode.

      The boy who would be king never spoke to a true person on the street.

      Which unionist will be able to draw excalibur from the stone?

      None I think AS has it hidden in Bute House.

    242. Kevin Evans says:

      That was funny on the BBC watching a politician thrown into a bin

    243. Clarinda says:

      Nana – I suppose the telephone box is being used at the moment, hence the difficulty in letting you know exactly where to meet. Don’t forget to take pictures if you can turn round in the crush.

    244. desimond says:

      Ukranians throw pro-Russian Politician in a garbage bin.

      Say no more.

    245. Nana Smith says:

      I believe Stu is in Edinburgh handing out the wwb.

      Anyhoo …

      http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/leaders-vow-power-scotland-already-unravelling

    246. Nana Smith says:

      Thyat should read wbb…D’oh

    247. Onwards says:

      Brilliant article on Bella last week, that needs shared as widely as possible at this time.

      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/08/beyond-gallus-warriors-and-heroic-defeats-lets-just-win-this-time/

      Some folks are nervous that, in true Scottish tradition, we will bottle it at the last minute.

      Heroic failure and all that. Scots often seem to have a national inferiority complex, that prevents us from taking that final step.

      This is about overcoming that mentality.
      It’s not enough just to rattle the cage, and get some attention.

      It’s time to put ourselves FIRST for once !!

    248. A.N.Surgent says:

      The Scottish Social Renaissance approaches.

    249. Jim McIntosh says:

      chalks says:
      16 September, 2014 at 1:11 pm
      Betfair paying out on a No win

      I’m probably not the smartest when discussing betting but as I see it the bookies win whether YES or NO win. So if Betfair is paying out now on NO bets it will be on bets placed by a certain time, probably when the odds were around 1/7 (3 months ago).

      This will convince a significant number of new punters to bet on a NO result now. When they lose Betfair keep their money, so they are really saying it’s a YES win. 🙂

    250. muttley79 says:

      What happened to Miliband?

    251. Macca73 says:

      @Onwards I could not agree more with that sentiment! We can’t be allowed to think that way. Just remember what Lammont said if that helps and make your vote in the YES box!

    252. Macnakamura says:

      Because the polling stations unable to cope with turnout, BBC announces that voting day has been changed to Friday for Yes voters and Thursdsy for No voters

    253. Papadox says:

      Big Gordy’s brother some head bummer at EDF has threatened 1200 employees if they vote YES, and the electricity supplies to customers. Democracy and socialism in action, sure they would make great spiritual leaders. True tollies in labour clothes, the prodigal sons come home to roost.

    254. SquareHaggis says:

      Currently trying to get my library to put the WBB on the shelf, the very nice lady on the desk didn’t want to accept it because of it’s politics and she’s meant to be impartial.
      Told her I understood but described the book as a soon to be historical document and since the referendum will soon be over it would fit that category by Friday. She agreed and made a few calls. Hopefully my local council will allow it a place in their rather poorly stocked Scottish History section.

      Pubs, cafes and hairdressers all very upbeat and happy to take copies for the final run-in.

    255. gillie says:

      Ed Miliband chased out of St James shopping centre in Edinburgh. Forced to flee by all accounts.

    256. dadsarmy says:

      @Macart
      What I realise is that the Herald didn’t make it front-page, it was a “Herald View”, and Gardham’s article about Tom Devine is curious to say the least.

      The three party “Pledge” says nothing, and it only takes anybody to read it to realise that. Perhaps there’s more plays in this game yet, and more twists to come.

    257. Black Douglas says:

      @alistair

      😀 the tricks these media and political types get up to.

      who knew!! 😀 😀

    258. desimond says:

      http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77612000/jpg/_77612396_77612390.jpg

      Little Ed Dumb, put up his thumb
      Little Boy Blue, dont point, I’ll break it in 2
      Little Nick Clegg, son, time for bed

      #NoNurseryRhymes

    259. dadsarmy says:

      Who’d have thunk that in the last dying throes of a NO vote, it might be the London-based media that brings the Union crashing down, while the Scottish-based media fiddle and burn?

      Sounds like a song in the making …

    260. call me dave says:

      Curran v Neil. just finished on BBC live.

      I think the Ayes won.

      Bonus is that he called her out on the SNHS and reassured us fearty Scots.

    261. desimond says:

      @
      Suddenly the lyric

      “They dont care about us
      And theyve never heard of love”

      Sums up the London based attitude to us and how quick they turn on their own

    262. muttley79 says:

      Just a day after Murphy ranting on about intimidation by Yes supporters as well…

    263. ronnie anderson says:

      2 Welsh Westminster MPs handing out leaflets in Airdrie today
      , when I asked them why they were up here they said representing they’re constuants 2WBB issued.

    264. A.N.Surgent says:

      What do these people expect, turning up once in a blue moon, spreading lies and prophesising armageddon. Did they actually
      believe we would bow down to our imperial masters.

    265. Les Wilson says:

      liz says:
      + Lesley-Anne

      I watched both the Taxi Driver vids, you have got to love his attitude and commitment, his heart is in the right place.

    266. muttley79 says:

      On New Statesman now:

      We’ve already heard reports of intimidation stopping people putting up No or Better Together posters and flags. And the Labour MP Jim Murphy had to pause his campaign tour around Scotland because of what he viewed as Yes Scotland’s “campaign of intimidation”. Now it seems these tactics are being used on Miliband.

      As I’m not in Scotland, I’ve picked this story up from tweets sent by political journalists at the scene.

      No mention of the assault on a man who had his nose broken. They are already working it into Murphy’s view of events. Expect it to be pushed by BBC Scotland and STV tonight and tomorrow.

    267. col says:

      70% of bets placed in Scotland are for a YES win.

    268. liz says:

      @Nana Smith – just read a couple of BLC on the newstatesman – nationalist mob etc – in the photos shown there is ONE yes flag.

      BTW on twitter – they are saying Yes folk singing – bow down to your imperial master – Ha Ha

    269. ronnie anderson says:

      2 Welsh Westminster MPs in Airdrie today handing out leaflets, when I enquired what they were doing up here they said representing they’re constuants, another couple of WBBs for enlightenment,in the spirit of cross border relationship you understand.

    270. Graeme Doig says:

      Miliband

      Nemo me impune lacessit

    271. Kevin Evans says:

      I don’t bet but bet on the no vote so if they win at least we’ll get compensation.

    272. desimond says:

      Ed jostled….I honestly wouldnt put it passed being a stitch up. Sad I know but thats how much i trust them.

    273. Kevin Evans says:

      Desimond I now question everything on the news now after the last week

    274. desimond says:

      Laugh of the day

      BBC Weatherman

      The sunshine makes a big difference to the weather!

    275. Nana Smith says:

      Well even though we know ED, Brown and the gang are rubbish, I do hope no one does this…

      http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/16/rubbish-day-at-the-office-ukrainian-politician-thrown-in-bin-outside-parliament-4871329/

    276. ronnie anderson says:

      2Welsh Westminster MPs handing out leaflets today in Airdrie, when I enquired what they were up here for they said representing they’re constuants, 2 WBBs on Scottish enlightenment.

    277. Les Wilson says:

      Nana Smith says:

      I hope not Nana, we would need a couple of big skips!

    278. Andy-B says:

      The BBC giving plenty of airtime to Gordon Brown, and his Clydebank speech.

    279. Famous15 says:

      Please cool the merited anger.Smile and explain and swallow the epithets like ("Tractor" - Ed) or ("Quizmaster" - Ed):nothing to be gained by use of these words. Now is not the time to lose control.

      Smile and keep dishing out the WBB!

    280. fred blogger says:

      apologies if this has been posted here.
      http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/hes-fing-liar-ed-miliband-mobbed-yes-supporters-scotland
      we in the labour party believe that the indyref is for the scottish people ie those who LIVE here
      miliband you are NOT welcome in scotland atm, who ever told you that you were, is badly mistaken, go home.
      you’re just here to wind people up, and even if you are not you are winding people up.
      then you complain people are upset, which is the height of stupidity.
      a bit like a man u fan shouting “come on united”, in the middle of the kop end crowd.
      it’s also costing you votes.
      not that we mind that of course.

    281. Midgehunter says:

      @ Scotspine

      Thanks for the info. 😉

    282. Nana Smith says:

      @Ronnie Anderson

      Aye Ronnie you’ll be giving the Welsh ideas there. I’m sure their constituents are just as unhappy with Westminster as we are.

    283. Luigi says:

      I was tailed in Aberdeen this afternoon by two very angry thugs with number 1 haircuts, shouting abuse and making rude gestures from their car. Fortunately, I resisted the temptation to engage and we went our separate ways after the junction.

      Later, I was puzzled about what could have angered them so much, I did not cut in front of them or anything like that.

      And then I remembered a rather large “YES” sign in my rear window.

      Oooops!

      Referendum rage!

    284. muttley79 says:

      Tom Bradby on Guardian:

      Pretty much all reporters I chatted to yesterday agreed that the level of abuse and even intimidation being meted out by some in the ‘Yes’ campaign was making this referendum a rather unpleasant experience.

      And whilst I am sure both sides have been guilty, the truth – uncomfortable as it is to say it – is that most of the heckling and abuse does seem to be coming from the Nationalists.

      I have been with ITN for 25 years and have covered events all over the world in that time. I’m not going to suggest that this bears comparison with really bad places, but it is certainly highly unusual in the democratic world.

      For example, my first major job as a correspondent was in Ireland in the early nineties and, despite the fact that there was a bitter war going on all round me that took many lives, I experienced virtually no personal hostility at all from anyone. They didn’t lob accusations of bias around every time you asked a question either.

      No mention of assaults on Yes supporters, no mention of death threats against Salmond and Sturgeon. Then they wonder why we think they are biased.

    285. Training Day says:

      Just passed a troglodyte using what passes for opposable thumbs to put up stickers saying ‘Don’t believe their pish, vote No’.

      Lol, the Union ends in low farce.

    286. desimond says:

      In fitbaw terms, its been a day when BBC and No Thanks have flooded the midfield. I think their trying to bore the people into submission.

      Is Alex Salmond taking a break? Havent seen him on BBC24 today?

      Smarmy wee note by BBC24 there covering the Yes output today “Tommy Sheridan has put a perjury conviction behind him…”

    287. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day

      Do you think we will win?

    288. galamcennalath says:

      Luigi says

      “Referendum rage!”

      It exists. Nothing has happened to me quite like your adventure, but I have noticed people will be extra courteous, or try to block me out. Clear voting intentions displayed!

    289. Kevin Evans says:

      And when are all these news papers gonna make the statement “we’re sorry we lied” on Friday?

      By that time it’s too late.

    290. Indy_Scot says:

      The BBC must be one of the most political corrupt media outlets. If their lies and bias cost our children a better future, they will never be forgiven.

    291. WeeMike says:

      Just because we think we’re right doesn’t give us the right to shout the other side down. If Unionists did the same thing to Salmond as happened to Miliband today we’d all go mental. By acting like this, we’re pushing people toward No. How about a little bit of fucking dignity people? Debate, not shout down

    292. Nana Smith says:

      @muttley79

      Well its not going the way the media want, the comments on the Herald and new statesman are worth a read.

      Poor wee Ed what a wimp.

    293. Kevin Evans says:

      We have already won – it’s just going to take a little longer.

      Once the cats out the bag on Friday that this is all rubbish being offered do ya really think the yes campaign is going to just go away or begin to get double the support it has just now?

    294. Famous15 says:

      Lungi @5.10

      Put the large sign in your FRONT passenger side and that way you only hear the tail end of their expletives as they disappear in the opposite direction.

      My confidence in success is returning but the Currans and Bradfords are clever little liars so keep calm and answer their lies!

    295. call me dave says:

      @desimond

      I spotted the innuendo too!

      Disgraceful unless they mention ‘expenses’ Brown and flipper Darling at the start of their news pieces. but what do we expect?

    296. muttley79 says:

      Article in the New Statesman contains the following:

      If the Union is lost, Tory MPs will move swiftly to frame Labour as the culprit. It was the party’s “loathsomely shit” performance in the 2011 election for the Scottish Parliament (in the words of a shadow cabinet minister) that allowed the SNP to win a majority, and its lacklustre standing since then has put the SNP within reach of its ultimate goal. Calls for Cameron to resign will be matched by calls for Miliband to do so. But Labour MPs believe the blame will fall elsewhere. “This will be Alistair [Darling] and Douglas [Alexander]’s defeat,” one says, in reference to the Better Together chair and the party’s general election co-ordinator, who is being heavily briefed against.

      Labour cannot say they were not warned this would happen! 😀

    297. Training Day says:

      @Muttley

      I do now think we’ll win the vote. My worry has always been rigging, but you sense the momentum all round you in the streets and in conversations and it will carry us through.

      And the diehard No’s I encounter are in a state of hysterical fear.

    298. Kevin Evans says:

      I feel sorry for anyone that votes no!

      They’ll leave the polling station with immediate regret – then they’ll be sitting one night in front of the TV on there own or watching a scotland match and it will hit them like a ton of bricks “WHAT HAVE I DONE”

      They have to live with themselves.

    299. fred blogger says:

      Nana Smith
      “Poor wee Ed what a wimp.”
      their sense of entitlement is MASSIVE.
      they ooze you serve, you’re my servant, they display mind numbing patronizing arrogance, that leaves we speechless.

    300. Robert Louis says:

      For those not in Edinburgh, down by the Parliament at Holyrood are some of the largest muti story press gantries I’ve seen. The world’s media realy is here, and the world is watching. Best not let them down.

      Q/T Noticed on here recently lots of folks making silly comments and threats, talking of retribution and so on – that is not what I want in an independent Scotland etc.. FFs folks, get a grip. People are entitled to their opinion you know. Let’s focus on our positive campaign, as it most certainly isn’t over. Cut the childish abuse, please 🙂

    301. Thepnr says:

      @WeeMike

      Your a bit shouty yourself. Swearing at the readers of Wings is devoid of the dignity you scream for.

      Where is your class?

    302. Kevin Evans says:

      I agree Robert but it’s hard when your rights and free speech is being walked all over

    303. Robert Louis says:

      For those not in Edinburgh, down by the Parliament at Holyrood are some of the largest multi story press gantries I’ve seen. The world’s media really is here, and the world is watching. Best not let them down.

      Q/T Noticed on here recently lots of folks making silly comments and threats, talking of retribution and so on – that is not what I want in an independent Scotland etc.. FFs folks, get a grip. People are entitled to their opinion you know. Let’s focus on our positive campaign, as it most certainly isn’t over. 🙂

    304. Chic McGregor says:

      Regarding the Great Gordo’s elegant intervention, here is a particularly apt quote from 1979 aimed at Teddy Taylor’s last minute promises of something better from the Tories if the electorate vote No.

      “Now he is responsible for peddling last-minute and half-baked proposals which are quite incapable of commanding consent.”

      And who made this inciteful comment – you’ve guessed it, a certain Mr Gordon Brown. (Thank you FB)

    305. Robert Louis says:

      For those not in Edinburgh, down by the Parliament at Holyrood are some of the largest muti story press gantries I’ve seen. The world’s media realy is here, and the world is watching. Best not let them down.

      Q/T Noticed on here recently lots of folks making silly comments and threats, talking of retribution and so on – that is not what I want in an independent Scotland etc.. FFs folks, get a grip. People are entitled to their opinion you know. Let’s focus on our positive campaign, as it most certainly isn’t over. 🙂

    306. Juteman says:

      I overheard two guys at work discussing Camerons speech from last night.
      ‘Does he think anyone up here really believes that he will be sorry to see us go? More like he will be sorry to lose our money!’.
      This was from two guys that were diehard No voters a few months ago. We are winning this!

    307. Robert Louis says:

      Sorry about multiple posts. Think I’ll hide – I’ve heard REV stu is in Edinburgh as well….urk.

    308. Jim McIntosh says:

      @onwards

      “Some folks are nervous that, in true Scottish tradition, we will bottle it at the last minute.

      Near the end of Allan Bissett’s play ‘The Pure, The Dead and the Brilliant’ Black Douglas says, “As usual when Scotland is faced with an open goal it will do what it always does and blooter it over the bar”.

      Well not this time, this is 1967 all over again and we’re all Wembley Wizards.

    309. A.N.Surgent says:

      Kevin Evans

      It will be like the French after WW 2 ended, everyone claimed to be in the resistance,tens of millions of them. No voters will be the same and claim they voted YES, and we will end up with 4 million YES voters.

    310. Helena Brown says:

      Robert Louis I would say that this has got to won, after that I expect it will settle down with normal folk. Many will not be forgiven or forgotten but I think we all know who has been to blame for this dreadful campaign and is sure isn’t the ordinary citizen.

    311. desimond says:

      @Robert Louis

      Robert, of course yoru right and I think we all concur and almost all people on both sides are respectful and will be so after the result. Some may then look at moving on but thats for another days discussiuon.

      Today has been a bit of strange day, dont want to say like the “gather your dead” truce period during warfare but very subdued and you get feeling even BBC struggling to fill airtime with anything worthwhile.

    312. Indy_Scot says:

      Is it just me or is the Yes campaign getting no coverage today.

    313. call me dave says:

      Norman Smith BBC summing up the day on BBC24.

      Unionist chucking everything at the YES just to get to polling day.
      Gordo trying to re-stabilise the labour wavers back into the fold.

      Ed in Edinburgh (least said the better) but no undue intimidation say Norman. The YES has the passion and it’s a life work for some of them.

    314. fred blogger says:

      we are winning.
      this there is a concept called primacy and recency we are in recency.
      they are now trying to desperately reinvent their campaign and the arguments.
      i feel elated, that we have managed to stop them from doing this in it’s tracks.
      i’ll be soppy now and never again, you lot are wonderful, thank you for an amazing journey of discovery.

    315. desimond says:

      BBC News 24 continue its “Its a done deal folks, save your arse getting off the couch and voting YES and just stay home” ploy by having a guy on talking about some silly Poll based in England but he gets to keep stating lines like “PEOPLE ARE CLEARLY FOR NO!”

      All these claims make me think the lady doth proteth too much!

    316. Thepnr says:

      Independence Live from George square on now.

      http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3397340

    317. call me dave says:

      TNS poll in England and Wales for BBC live.

      63% NO 43% no impact on them. 24%? don’t care….and the YES vote. . . . . no figures!

      A Scottish poll was rumoured earlier bit hasn’t surfaced. I have feeling it will be quietly dropped.

    318. CameronB Brodie says:

      muttley79
      Now I see why Danny Alexander was prepared to tell us that black was white, concerning the continued safety of the Scottish NHS.

      It is a sad day indeed, when Labour politicians lie to the public in order to further their privatisation agenda. Four legs bad, two legs good.

      Expletives!

    319. dadsarmy says:

      @Graeme Doig
      Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me

    320. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Guys,

      If you are hacked off with this blatantly biased media barrage, pls do something about it. Don’t fight the media..BE the media

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-a-free-fearless-news-service-4-scotland

    321. Katherine hamilton says:

      Hope trumps fear.
      Pete Seeger’s This Land is Your Land.
      “No body living
      Can ever stop me
      As I go walking
      On freedom’s highway
      No body living
      Can make me turn back
      This land was made for you and me”

      We will not be robbed.
      Vote YES!!

    322. Midgehunter says:

      Monty Python wrote the Vow, didn’t they..?! Is it a Vow or is it a Pledge? A Veg maybe? Possibly a dead parrot..!

      G.1 What powers are these? Airguns promoted to shotguns?
      Extensive new what? And a timetable from the Broonsday Book which is 30 years too late.
      The British Constitution!!! Stair, have you got a copy for us, we may have missed something.

      G.2 Waffle and hot air kinda sums it up.

      G.3 We’ve already got the power to spend more on the NHS if we want, we just need the cash.

      The guarantee that with the continued Barnett allocation, based on need and with the power to raise its own funds,..

      So the B F may be allowed to stay, but it’ll be needs based and WM says what those needs are. We’ll be forced to raise funds cos WM says our needs are exorbitant, way more than England needs.

      The SG already has the last word on health but it still needs the cash.

      Utter drivel from top to bottom.

    323. Tommy Kane says:

      I agree we should be dignified in our approach to those of different persuasion. I will bide my time and seek payback in the GE 2015 and in 2016 Scottish Elections.

      I will use my vote to get at those who lied and threatened not the poor folks who believed them

    324. Indy_Scot says:

      Tell you what, now that all the media are suffocating the Yes campaign with their lies and bias, and the baseless ‘Vow’ that was cheated into the debate, maybe it would not be such a bad idea to have a little help from the Sun. Just a thought.

    325. CameronB Brodie says:

      We MUST to do it this time, if only to ensure the Scottish NHS remains a public service, free at the point of delivery. I don’t want to find myself exclude from decent health care when I am elderly, and less able to look out for myself.

      @ No Better Together Thanks
      I have no family to support me when I am elderly, so will you? How?

      muttley79
      Now I see why Danny Alexander was prepared to tell us that 2 + 2 = 5, concerning the continued safety of the Scottish NHS.

      It is a sad day indeed, when Labour politicians lie to the public in order to further their privatisation agenda to secure middle England voters. Four legs bad, two legs good.

      Expletives!

    326. RMAC says:

      I would also urge restraint, the media would love to have something to blow out of proportion for either tomorrows papers or to be looped every hour or less that shows the Yes campaign in a bad light. There are still some people to be convinced and it would seem to me that calm persuasion is more effective as per the Rev’s earlier post.

    327. mark T says:

      It seems like reality is beginning to bite. Tensions are rising, nerves are frayed and, for many, I imagine that the will which underpins our voting intentions is being tested with niggling doubts. This is how it should be.

      With 97% of the electorate registered to vote, and a great deal of that number expected to actually make it to the polling booth on Thursday, there can be virtually nobody in Scotland who hasn’t thought about the outcome of this decision. Of course, that thought process will have been as diverse and idiosyncratic as the people themselves; from “what’ll happen tae ma programmes on the telly?” to arguably weightier matters of economics and identity.

      My own journey has been a long one and, although I do not have a vote in this election, I still have a voice. As someone with all of my family living there, and an intention to return home some time in the future, I have agonised over the choice just as if I actually had the right to vote.

      In my life I have voted labour, liberal and green; labour in the UK elections until the Iraq war, Liberal afterwards. Green in the scottish elections, knowing that the PR voting system gave them a real chance to get a few seats. In Westminster now I really have no idea who I would vote for as I am truly disgusted with all of them. I have never voted SNP, though I feel they have proved themselves largely competent in government.

      I started 18 months ago as a solid NO voter. My own rationale for this was based on my own feeling of identity more than anything. Having travelled for years and lived for spells in different countries, I feel very open to the world, and more of a (cheesy though this sounds) global citizen than anything else. I felt that I knew where I was from and understood the land that bred me, but did not have to define myself that way. I always hated the idea of defining yourself as a nation by setting yourself apart, and wanted instead to focus on what binds people together.

      I realise now that this was to confuse Scottish independence with the ugliest version of nationalism; a knee-jerk reaction to the dreaded N word. I’ve come to realise, however, that this is not what Thursday’s decision is all about, at least not for me.

      In my last few years in the UK, I slipped into real apathy. I remember the feeling of marching in the “don’t attack Iraq” demonstration in Glasgow and feeling like the whole world was with me. How could they not listen to us? How could they ignore the legal and moral consequences of waging war on such a flimsy basis? That was the start of it.

      Since then, my apathy became steadily more entrenched. Blair, Brown, Clegg, Cameron. The most vulnerable bore the brunt of mistakes made by the most privileged and still we voted for them. They U-turned on promises time after time and yet they still stand in front of us telling us to trust them. I cannot do that. To those that say we got a tory government that we did not vote for, well yes you are correct, but we got a labour government that we did vote for, and they did their bit by letting derivatives traders run amok and, in Brown’s own words “rewarding the risk takers”. That reward, evidently, extended to not punishing them when it all went Pete Tong.

      Camerons and Cleggs will come and go, and we must take the long view; put anger and resentment aside and think of the future. if there is a NO vote, we might vote in a labour administration and see a continuation of tax cuts for the rich and labelling the poorest among us as scroungers. They have already indicated as much.

      And this is really the point of a YES vote for me: the system itself is broken and Westminster is so resistant to change, so devoid of effective opposition, so comfortable in its own landed power, that their hand must be forced. Change will never happen of its own accord. In the year 2014 we still have people calling the shots on things that affect our lives, and using the fruits of our labour, who were born to power and not elected to power. The house of lords is an aberration of democracy and that fact that we have to even point that out to our own government should speak volumes. Under labour, the peerage actually grew! In my view, the monarchy too is anachronistic, but that ship has sailed for the moment. I hope that it will not be long until Her Majesty is parcelled off to a modest lodging in Buckinghamshire, a small pension and a physiotherapist to heal her over-waved wrist.

      The voting system, too, is so ridiculous that, since Tam Dalyell had to actually point out the glaring injustice of Scottish MP’s having a say in wholly English matters, but not the reverse, the government has done nothing about it! They just plodded on regardless. No wonder English voters are unhappy about it. Change does not come easily to Westminster.

      It is hard to argue over there being democratic deficit in Scotland, because it really depends on whether you see Scotland as an entity apart or part of the UK as a whole. If it is the former, then yes there is a problem, but research suggests that we are as socially conservative as middle England on many matters and perhaps our aversion to the Tories is more of a hangover from Thatcher’s dismembering of Scottish industry. It lacks weight as an argument because either side can make it their own by virtue of their own perspective.

      However, what we cannot deny that the Coalition government are systematically dismantling and privatising the NHS in England, and the knock-on financial effects, Barnett formula or no, will make it very hard for Scotland to stop the same from happening north of the border. Even if every single voter in Scotland says NO to the tories at the next general election, it is feasible that a UKIP-Tory coalition will be calling the shots in any case. In short, whether you argue the democratic deficit is real or not, this is simply the reality we face in the foreseeable future and I, for one, can’t stomach it.

      But will it be better in an independent Scotland? Who knows! I look at the current situation, and the clear will of the Scottish government to preserve the NHS. Would they get away with privatisation here? I don’t have the answers. I have a gut feeling that says when power comes geographically and psychologically closer to the people it come from, people are more emboldened to hold politicians accountable. And no, I have nothing except anecdotal evidence for that….research it yourself if you like. So, in short, why should we be willing to risk uncertainty?

      Because “better the devil you know” is a false economy. The clue is in the expression; we are dealing with a devil right now, so why not seek to build something better?

      To build something better you need the right tools and materials. The Westminster system is not changing anytime soon, no matter what they say. They have lied time and time again, run up a ridiculous amount of debt, and fostered embarrassing levels of inequality in the UK. They are the wrong tools for the job and the three main parties in parliament and are an absolute disgrace to credibility. Imagine a CEO who lost their company huge amounts of money, refused to let heads roll, refused to take the blame and then lied consistently about policy….how long would they last? Why should politics be any different? Westminster is the wrong tool for the job, and anyone who has ever tried to use a butter knife to remove the screen of an Ipad will understand what I am saying; it will only lead to fragmentation.

      It is clear that Scotland is moving in a different direction from Westminster. I understand that many many people in rUK also want no tuition fees, free prescriptions, no nuclear weapons, no illegal wars ha et cetera.What i also know is that not enough of them are expressing this in the polling stations. The media watch the rise of UKIP in England and try, implicitly or explicitly, to paint Scottish YES voters with the same brush, when YES is supported by people from all backgrounds, ethnicities and political affiliations. Civic Nationalism is not the same as British Nationalism, as Billy Bragg pointed out today.

      I am nervous about the vote. I am apprehensive about the future. I do have questions that have not been answered. There are credible threats in an independent Scotland, but I strongly believe that this will take us in the right direction and that, even if there are some bumps in the road, it’s the right one to take. It’s time to understand that the system we have been complaining about for years is actually vulnerable. It’s not a fait accompli, it’s simply the last outpost of a broken empire that needs to be laid to rest. We are once again remembering what democracy means in this country, and I hope, across the rest of the UK in times to come. Overcome the jitters, steady your nerves and gather your will. Voting YES is not the perfect choice, but I’m damned sure it is better than the devil you know.

    328. Chic McGregor says:

      The one thing you can guarantee for yourself by voting YES, regardless of the result, is NO SHAME.

    329. HandandShrimp says:

      The press have been scrabbling around for smear and fear stories for the last month or more. If there are polls tomorrow though I can’t see such a line getting much in the column space.

      I have been out a lot and I haven’t seen anything out of the ordinary. People let off steam even if it is council elections let alone something as important as this. “Somebody was a bit shouty” when you have 4.3m people voting is not news. Independence movements in other parts of the world have seen terrifying body counts. This is an example of how to do it, not a warning on how not to do it.

    330. ChrisB says:

      Proof that they were only thinking of Scotland’s best interests when they cobbled the vow together on the back of an old map Dave happened to have with him: https://www.flickr.com/photos/45703336@N04/15259232912/

    331. CameronB Brodie says:

      Gordon Brown at the pinnacle of his carrier. This man may have issues.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERHtMr7QLNQ&feature=youtu.be&t=25s

    332. Grouse Beater says:

      With very few exceptions, interviewers insist on called the pick-‘n-mix powers that may never happen as ‘Devo-Max.’ They don’t come close to it. Why are they so damn ill-informed? It is as if they revel in their ignorance.

      If I was an undecided and kept hearing Devo-Max spoken as if fact, over and over, day after day, without knowing it has to be all powers except armed forces and foreign policy to be Devo-Max I’d be tempted to keep Westminster in power, not realising all powers can be removed without notice.

    333. CameronB Brodie says:

      test

    334. RedStarTrout says:

      Apologies if this has already been spotted.

      The Clare field, West of Shetland, has an estimated 8 billion barrels of oil, making it the largest hydrocarbon resource in Europe, according to oil major BP.

      http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/conocophillips-assetsale-idINL1N0RG2PP20140916

    335. call me dave says:

      Last day tomorrow for scare stories phew!

      If chilling out later. Some footie choices here.

      Ad blocker is perhaps good if new viewer.

      http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.php?part=sports&discipline=football

    336. G H Graham says:

      Slow news day so here’s the latest newspaper sales figures in Scotland for 2014 …

      ………………………………..January………August
      TITLE…………………………..2013…………2014………..Change

      Sunday Mail………………….357,724……..273,510………. -24%
      The Sunday Post…………….215,861…….174,115………..-19%
      Scottish Mail on Sunday………98,710………90,458…………-8%
      Daily Star of Scotland…………57,939………29,077……….-50%
      Sunday Times………………….52,670………48,473…………-8%
      Scotland on Sunday…………..48,388……….36,597……….-24%
      Scottish Sunday Express……..39,845………31,948………..-20%
      The People…………………….22,634……….11,261……….-50%
      Sunday Telegraph…………….16,794……….16,194………..-4%
      The Observer………………….16,699……….14,521………-13%
      Independent on Sunday……….6,488…………5,644……….-13%

      TOTAL………………………..933,752……..731,798……….-22%

    337. CameronB Brodie says:

      test2

    338. liz says:

      I looked at the livestream from George Sq – it seems to have been high-jacked by some very shouty people – we need to be vigilent

    339. Cactus says:

      Independence LIVE on George Square NOW (as well).. GET YOURSELF DOWN THERE GLASGOW!

      Here’s the LIVE webcam from the top of the City Chambers:
      http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2983

    340. Thepnr says:

      Independence Live from George square on now.

      http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3397340

      Do not miss this, history is happening before our eyes!

    341. Grouse Beater says:

      Mark: I am nervous about the vote.

      We were an independent nation once, we have remained a cohesive nation since despite many problems and attempts to dilute our distinct culture and mores, hence there is absolutely no reason to be apprehensive about regaining sovereignty.

      If one sees it in terms of genuine democracy, a people empowered, and the structures plus constitution are established to include people in the running of their own affairs – not a hard thing to achieve in a small country – we can move forward with confidence.

      The important thing is to be involved not only in the plebiscite, but in society thereafter.

      The energy and excitement we have now should not be allowed to abate as we create a sovciety fit for us all.

    342. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      Today is Dydd OWAIN GLYNDWR Day here in CYMRU/Wales… on this day in 1400, the Welsh Prince stood on the top of Caer Drewyn outside Corwen, with his band of followers and, in the face of extreme provocation from Lord Grey, one of the Marcher Lords, backed by the ‘establishment’ in London, he unfurled his standard and said, in effect, ‘Digon yw digon! O dewch fy ngwyr, ‘r awr hon, fan hyn, Rhown garreg ar garreg fan hyn! – ENOUGH is ENOUGH, Oh come my countrymen, this hour, here, we shall place stone upon stone, here and now!’ Now, ringing familiar 614 years later, here are you, our Celtic cousins, making history now in September 2014 with a mystical ‘something’ that has blown so many minds, – a stand of defiance, hope and strength – just what we can see in you today in Caesar! – 18 hours to stand firm – you CAN DO IT – it has been,… no, no it IS the most uplifting show of the voice of a people I can ever remember seeing, certainly on these islands of ours. Diolch – thank you from the bottom of our hearts here in CYMRU/Wales for such a heart-rendering surge of passion, will, determination, perseverance, belief and …to boot, I’ve NEVER seen so many smiling faces in a national movement EVER, EVER… warming our very souls and shedding tears of joy for you…. MAKE IT HAPPEN FRIDAY MORNING! Wake up the World to a freedom party the likes we won’t have witnessed!!!!

    343. Paula Rose says:

      Grouse Beater honey – are you hitting the sauce early? I expect better spelling etc fom you.

    344. BT official canvassers were out in force this morning in Cupar (Fife), well both of them. Two elderly women. I spoke to one, who tried to give me a UKOK sticker.

      I asked her to give ONE just ONE positive reason for voting NO. She said ”we’re better together”.

      Come on said I just one positive reason not a sound bite.

      She said ”We have a huge problem with muslims in this country”.

      So your a racist and probably a ukip supporter.

      Her friend then came over, first thing she said is, the oil price has fallen overnight, so I asked her the same question.

      She said ”I have family who live in England, I don’t want them to be foreigners”

      I have family in New Zealand and I don’t look at them as foreigners said I.

      Second woman then said to her friend don’t talk to him he’s a lost cause.

      Later found out the first woman was the wife of a local farmer.

      If thats the best they have?????

    345. Juteman says:

      I just caught the end of something on BBC News 24 about a Dimbleby, Salmond Brown discussion tomorrow. Is Broon now the leader of No?

    346. call me dave says:

      The First Eck on sky news live at 7pm I have been told.

    347. HandandShrimp says:

      Juteman

      I think it is all hands to the pump now. Anybody that can help BT is helped up onto the podium. Galloway has had a lot of TV time over the last week despite having nothing to do with BT.

    348. G H Graham says:

      Don’t assume ANYTHING before you read this refreshingly balanced viewpoint from our cousins in the USA.

      The World Is Watching – A View From the USA

      http://www.bletherskite.net/2014/09/15/the-world-is-watching-a-view-from-the-usa/

    349. msean says:

      I see the paying more in than other UK tax payers got left out again on telly,as ever.

    350. Dan Huil says:

      @ mark T. Well said. Many more with similar experiences, I’m sure.

    351. Quentin Quale says:

      Cameron, c’mon my man, if you are going to post a test at least put up the questions as well! wee smiley thing.

    352. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Bum face is on BBC Reporting Scotland just now

    353. Juteman says:

      Thank you, Tim.
      Hopefully we do it, and you are next.

    354. HandandShrimp says:

      I see the Channel 5 unscientific ballot in Stirling was 56% Yes 44% No

      Fairly unscientific though.

    355. @Thepnr

      Cheers for heads up.

    356. A.N.Surgent says:

      Tim Criced i Gymru

      Hopefully Tim your day will come sooner rather than later.

    357. Cameronb Brodie says:

      Testing Testing

    358. RedStarTrout says:

      Thanks call me dave, three oil stories in a row.

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9752-leading-geologist-says-firth-of-clyde-has-fantastic-potential-for-oil
      There could be oil in the Clyde, which would be nice.
      http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/company-news/hurricane-hails-potential-of-new-shetland-oil-find.25339138
      There’s about 200 million barrels in the Lancaster field, which is good.
      http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/conocophillips-assetsale-idINL1N0RG2PP20140916
      But the biggest oil field in Europe, 8 BILLION barrels, is the Clare field, which is massive.
      That’s why they tried to keep Clare secret and you won’t see it on the news. The biggest oil field in Europe just isn’t worth mentioning.

    359. Juteman says:

      Has any journalist asked Broon, Darling etc, if they will refuse a seat in the House of Nonsense if they deliver a No vote?

    360. Just watched Captain Darling speakingh to Jackie Bird.

      He wouldn’t last long on the radio programme: ‘Just A Minute’ – he would be repeatedly pulled-up for repetition.

      I got the impression Jackie was a wee bit fed-up with his banal script.

    361. alistair says:

      Stirling Unofficial Poll result on Channel 5 News done this Afternoon.
      Good News….
      Yes : 56%
      No : 44%
      You can watch it here.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFuTH7Sg4iI&list=UUsAKRVq2n1vcHBzNu1ZikgA
      We’re gonna do this…..

    362. alistair says:

      I think a few of those kids in the nursery must have been voting no !

    363. BuckieBraes says:

      So, the media have hijacked the term ‘Devo-Max’ to describe the additional devolution supposedly being promised by what looks like a particularly unattractive three piece boy-band on the front page of the Daily Record.

      I’d be interested to know when the term ‘Devo-Max’ was first coined, and by whom. While there is a generally accepted view of what it means, ‘Devo-Max’ seems to remain a slang term without formal, legal, definition (with its exclusion from the voting paper, the occasion has not arisen). This allows any sloppy journalist to slap the ‘Devo-Max’ label on just about any utterance of ‘more powers’ from the mouths of the No campaign.

      Does this matter? Probably not, as long as anyone being tempted to vote No because of the ‘Vow of the Three Amigos’ understands one thing. These people are not in a position to promise, or guarantee, anything.

    364. Grouse Beater says:

      Quebec’s last Referendum was lost when the Canadian government, thinking they were about to lose, stepped in at the last moment to promise extra powers.

      The waverers wavered and voted for Canada.

      To my knowledge Quebec got less than nothing, even losing their veto in the parliament, though there was lots of debate and discussion and committee reports about more powers. Goal lost, momentum evaporated.

      The Canadian government interpreted the vote as a mandate to continue as before. Today Canada has a right-wing administration.

      There is a sharp lesson there for us.

      I am told the subject of independence is rarely voiced; it’s almost a taboo subject, the loss of hope palpable.

    365. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Now he is responsible for peddling last-minute and half-baked proposals which are quite incapable of commanding consent.”

      – Gordon Brown on Tory devolution proposals in 1979.

      Oops.

      http://imgur.com/vsBGsZC

    366. Brian Ritchie says:

      @ mark T

      Super post. 😉

    367. Knew it couldn’t last. Jackie Bird gets Alex Salmond in front of her and immediately starts speaking across him and interrupting.

      Not that it did her much good – Wee Eck played another blinder. Much more-impressive than Captain Darling.

    368. alistair says:

      On the Channel 5 News poll in Stirling. I sat and watched them for 20 minutes while eating lunch. Mostly older men and women out doing shopping, and a few workies. I think that bodes well given that the strongest demographic is in the 30-50’s so they weren’t well represented from what I saw.

    369. Roughian says:

      Jackie Bird your future is as a voice over for dog food, sorry no disrespect to dog food. Whoever thought that you were a skilled interviewer needs their jotters. Well maybe everyone at EBC needs their jotters.

    370. Grouse Beater says:

      SKY News, Daily Record in hand, asking English in England what they think of Scotland ‘getting all the sweets and goodies’ if they say No?

      How about that as a bloody loaded question?

      Naturally, the people interviewed think Scotland should go to hell. Some make plain their political leaders are for the chop.

    371. Ron Maclean says:

      Dimbleby said Brown had offered home rule. Bird didn’t ask Darling what the new powers were. Doesn’t matter – neither need to deliver.

    372. Marian says:

      Jeez – the mad bad North British nobody of a backbencher ex-politician is running amok today trying to muddy the waters with promises of this nothing and that nothing.

    373. Alan of Neilston says:

      ON B.B.C. Scotland just now with Jacky Bird interviewing Alistair Darling , my all nice easy questions smiling and nice from J.B. When interviewing Alex Salmond what a transformation!! constantly talking over his answers and sneering at him. Its to Alex Salmond’s credit he keeps his cool and answers the constant scaremongering questions re the scottish health service £400 Million underspend leaked by B.B.C.Scotland, No Entry into Europe , No Currency Union, Big Business deserting us. Sorry B.B.C and Jacky B , Thank God we have not long to go to be rid of you once and forall.

    374. Grouse Beater says:

      Graham: refreshingly balanced viewpoint from our cousins in the USA.

      Fine essay, Graham, from our American cousins. Thanks.

      I have always found Americans respectful and generous about Scotland and its culture, including the many with no Scottish roots.

    375. Grouse Beater says:

      Roughian

      Jackie Bird gets Alex Salmond in front of her and immediately starts speaking across him and interrupting.

      The tone was set by oor ane sweet Kirsty Wark when, furious at his election, she verbally head butted the First Minister for daring to be popular and not a Labour politician.

    376. KayBee says:

      Too all of our celtic cousins in Wales and Ireland as well as our friends in the north of England.

      Thank you for all the magnificent support you have given us throughout our independence journey … I really cannot express just how grateful we are for all the numerous, heart felt and uplifting comments that have been made on very nearly every Scottish independence website that there is on the web.

      We, the Scots, will finally rid ourselves of the Westminster detritus this coming Thursday and you had best be assured that a warm place around “the independence fire” will be kept for you all to join us when your own journeys take you on the same route.

      Please come join us … all are welcome.

      bu chòir

    377. John H. says:

      I spoke to an old family friend today, an Irish catholic woman in her early 80’s.She has voted Labour all her life, one of the old school Labour voters.I’ve been trying to gently steer her towards the idea that independence would be good for her and her family, particularly her grandchildren.

      She’s been giving it a lot of thought for about the last year or so, and today told me that she was going to vote YES.She no longer trusts Labour, believing that they are no longer trying to help ordinary people.

      Referendum aside, I would say that Labour in Scotland is in big trouble when someone like her stops trusting them.

    378. call me dave says:

      Adam Boulton no likee Mr Salmin’s answers and trying to badger him.

      AS as usually is doing well.

    379. Kirsty says:

      In other (trivial) news, my puppy ate the voting card of the only No voter in our house. She didn’t touch the rest and we’re all Yessers. Even baby Labradors know we’re right!

    380. call me dave says:

      @Kirsty

      Good story HaHa! Woof Woof! Lucky for her you don’t need one to vote.

    381. Natasha says:

      Hi folks
      Today I placed a bet (well, two bets actually) for the first time in my life! (I had a very sheltered, middle class upbringing). I bet a whole £10 on YES to win, and another £10 on a 55% or higher majority. I wanted to bet on a 60% or higher majority but they wouldn’t let me. Someone who used to work in that betting shop told me that this means they think it will be at least 60% and that’s why they wouldn’t accept my bet. I have no idea if that’s right, but I’m hoping – no, EXPECTING – to win about £100!!
      I’ve stopped being scared now and I’m just full of hope and confidence. Boy, do I love this country.

    382. Grouse Beater says:

      Dave: Adam Boulton no likee Mr Salmin’s answers and trying to badger him.

      You watching to, Dave.

      Boulton blunders through the interview as if desperate to get to the toilet.

    383. Indy_Scot says:

      Just read Kevin Bridges tweet that his programme was edited by the BBC to give a different view from actual reality.

      The BBC trying to mislead the public, that does surprise me, yeah, I’m taking the piss.

    384. Grouse Beater says:

      Just read Kevin Bridges tweet that his programme was edited by the BBC to give a different view from actual reality.

      In which case he was bloody naive.

      Read your contract, Kevin – BBC Scotland retains right of last cut of editing.

    385. E F says:

      What worries me is that it’s OK for people who follow these sites, Facebook groups and the like that can easily see through these lies but it’s not us thy’re aimed at.

      It’s the don’t knows that they’re trying to convince.
      There has been enough information available on the internet for anyone to make a educated judgement of what they think is the best way to go; possibly the fact that it seems to be that more people seem to veer toward the Yes vote after reading up on the matter is indicitave of this.

      The BT campaign are focusing on the basic fears of people.Playing on the fear of violence with the intimidation myth. (There’s probably more violence, intimidation or the like in any big town after an Old Firm game than there has been during the whole campaign.) Money – the old Daily Mail patter that we are getting subsidised by the rest of the UK has reared up in the Scottish media. Now they’re wheeling out the fear of losing tactic with the “bookies are never wrong” adage. They’re taking advantage of the dumbing down mentality that feeds banal TV such as XFactor and the likes. (How many times have you heard people saying that they’re voting No because they can’t stand that Salmond or that wummin Sturgeon? It’s not Big Brother or that jungle thing we’re voting on for eff’s sake!)

      Very little publicity is given to anyone trying to actually explain the facts. The Nick Robinson scandal being the most obvious example but you just need to watch any news report or read a paper to see this.

      To us on here, these tactics are clearly wrong but it’s deeply concerning and we must hope that over the final few days we can overcome this and get through to the remaining doubters.

    386. manandboy says:

      site down ?

    387. Chris says:

      This Dads Army style advert seems to suggest the SNP are the nazis which would make the NO campaign the bungling Walmington-on-sea home guard



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top