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Voting for people who hate you

Posted on May 02, 2022 by

We had some poll questions out with Panelbase last week. The results were in most ways wholly unsurprising, in line with all previous polls on the subject. Here they are.

Those are the headline numbers. But the detail is worth a delve.

The first question probably needs a bit of explaining. Most of the options offered will probably strike most readers as astonishingly sexist, for the very good reason that they are. But every one of them was taken either from official Scottish Government documentation relating to gender legislation, or from answers given by trans activists to the question “What is a woman?”

There’s a reason so many politicians refuse to answer that question, including most recently the First Minister herself.

It’s because other than a biological definition, it’s simply impossible to do so without resorting to outdated stereotypes, and all but the dimmest proponents of Gender Identity Theory know that that’s a terrible look.

Our poll found a huge gulf on this question between young men and everyone else. Just 50% of them defined “woman” biologically, with all the other age/sex groups returning huge majorities averaging over 76% (or more than 3:1).

Interestingly, young women – who are normally the group most susceptible to trans ideology – lined up very much with the mainstream on this question. In fact, the numbers for young women were exactly the same (72%) as the overall populace. We’ll come back to that.

Political differences were noticeable but still all within the same side of the debate. SNP and Labour voters were least likely to offer the biological definition, but still did so by a massive margin of more than 2:1, while Tory and Lib Dem voters were nearer 4:1.

Similarly, while there were gaps between Yes/No and Remain/Leave voters, none of them came close to flipping the result. Both Yes and Remain voters still opposed the entire concept of male people being able to become “women” by at least 2:1, while No and Remain voters were 4:1 and 3:1 against respectively.

Four of the parties in the Scottish Parliament have pledged to ride roughshod over the views of their voters by supporting the Scottish Government’s self-ID proposals, and even the Scottish Tories have been much more equivocal on the subject than their UK counterparts at Westminster.

So in Thursday’s election there are NO major parties that voters can choose who will represent the wishes of the large majority of the electorate. On the subject of gender, there is effectively no democracy in Scotland.

(Smaller parties like Alba, who have strong policies in defence of women’s rights, are only standing in a small percentage of seats – in Alba’s case, fewer than 10%.)

The other questions tell the same story, with one fascinating quirk.

Question 2 is in almost all meaningful senses the same question as Question 1, and got pretty much the same responses across the board, with one exception. The striking difference – big enough to cause a 7% shift in the overall figure – is in the numbers for young women, who flip from 72-28 against in Q1 to 58-42 in favour in Q2.

It’s difficult to explain this apparent anomaly. (On questions 3 and 4, young women reverted to opposition to gender reform proposals, by 3:1 and 2:1 respectively.) But one possibility reflects the hugely disproportionate rise in young women being referred to gender identity clinics, as opposed to any other group.

In an eight-year period to 2018, the number of boys referred to such clinics the UK leapt by over 1,200% (from 57 to 713). But the numbers for girls skyrocketed by over 4,500% (from 40 to 1,806). In less than a decade, girls have gone from 40% of cases to almost 72%. Abigail Shrier, the author of the acclaimed book “Irreversible Damage”, characterises this as girls fleeing womanhood like a house on fire.

The main difference between questions 1 and 2 is that question 2 is sex-neutral while question 1 is female-specific. It seems an at least plausibly coherent explanation for the apparent contradiction that young women are anxiously defending their territory in Q1 (and more literally in Q4), while trying to keep open the option to escape it in Q2. But that’s only a speculative interpretation.

What is not open to interpretation is that most of Scotland’s political parties hold their own voters in contempt on this issue, let alone those of their opponents. In the coming election, reality and biology have no champions.

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The full data tables are here.

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    76 to “Voting for people who hate you”

    1. Antoine Bisset says:

      The one thing that needs to be most closely questioned, and examined in depth, is the nature of the questions. As anyone who has sat an exam at school will know (and exploit) the common occurrence of the question that contains the seeds of the answer, often with clues and foundations as well.
      Here the questions relate to a bizarre and microscopic segment of society. Yet it it is now exerting influence on the mainstream of social life, on tradition, and on the ethics of medical practice – ethics which have become nearly invisible.
      No analysis of this insanity is possible with any certainty, maybe it should not be attempted. Sane societies constructed secure asylums for the deranged in the past, and it was not an unreasonable response to violent, violating, predatory individuals and doctrines.

    2. Dave McDave says:

      Officially Electorally Disenfranchised- not ONE party worth voting for in my ward. Truly a sad state of affairs in this day and age.

    3. Robert says:

      Just a wee correction. Alba are standing in over 30% of wards (111/352) not fewer than 10% as stated in the piece.

    4. Cringe says:

      I belive sex segregated toilets in Scottish schools are mandatory, there is an article on forwomen.scot with the legislation.

    5. Morgatron says:

      Marvelous article Stu. They will push ahead of the Dames. They are so f..ked up with this crazy ideology it’s frightening. I see the Scottish BBC website have been pushing the teenage trans agenda. I couldn’t cross the road myself at 13 never mind cross dress and call myself Amanda . I don’t care what people do , but I do care about being told its OK for a bloke who after three months can legally share a space with my wife, daughter , sister and mother. Somethings just not right here.

    6. Wee Chid says:

      vote already spoiled and endorsed with “Woman, Adult Human Female”. At least the person checking the ballot will be made aware of the issue if nobody else is.

    7. Effigy says:

      A woman is a person who is welcome to try to compete in all women’s professional sports.
      Not some of them all of them.

      We could face the farce of having makes just not good enough to win in their chosen sport claiming to be female in order to be No 1 in the women’s game and taking the prize money.

      How about the live with a born female super model but claim he is a gay woman living with her.

      Once age stops the prize money they revert back publicly to what they always were, male.

      Women’s sport can be called Transworld Sport.

    8. holymacmoses says:

      Thanks for the questions, figures and analysis. I shall no doubt be using them somewhere soon. I hope it’s OK to post a link to this information . If I use any of it discretely I shall acknowledge that it’s yours.
      I have yet to find anyone who understands: If a court of law accepts that a man can declare he’s a woman when giving evidence in court, and the court accept that declaration as truth; then any meaningful oath taken in court can be forgotten. People will be free to lie as they please.

    9. Dan says:

      Are trans tomato plants tomato plants?

      Asking for cannabis grower…

    10. Margaret L says:

      My council seat is ” uncontested ” which saves me the bother of not going to vote. Not one of them worth the reek of my sh*te i just wish the SNP got a tanking, even better if everyone was too busy washing their hair to vote.

    11. Andy Ellis says:

      It’s desperate stuff because you just know that even if you confront the representatives of the parties who aren’t challenging this on the doorstep, it’s a racing certainty that they will dismiss any concerns out of hand, or claim folk aren’t interested in the issue, or that it’s just one issue and people vote on a range of issues etc.

      I had LD MP Christine Jardine at my door canvassing last week (the only party to do so thus far). When she asked if the LD’s could rely on our support I said no they couldn’t, they’d be at the bottom of the list, just above the Tories. When she asked why and I said because you don’t support independence, she just held up her hand and walked off. I didn’t even get a chance to ask her why her party believed people could change sex and why she wanted to infringe women’s rights.

      I do hope the polling reported earlier showing a drop in SNP support amongst women is right though: it’s all these fuckers understand…altho’ let’s face it the fact that polls show the majority are in favour of something – like being able to hold #indyref2 for example – simply isn’t accepted by unionist parties, any more than this evidence will be accepted by the TRA extremists directing SNP policy.

    12. Shug says:

      Ok stu when voting should I vote last for the unionist parties last, or should I leave their vote box blank

    13. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      She walked away because she probably knew you’d drop this on her if she’d stayed and got into the conversation with you about the ability of people to change their sex.
      Money talks n aw that…

      https://twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1203628500147752961

      https://twitter.com/jeanhatchet/status/1202968839539036162

    14. Ottomanboi says:

      When a tree is diseased you chop it down and burn it.
      Same applies to ideas infecting political life.
      Sharpen the ax, prepare the fire.

    15. Andy Ellis says:

      @Shug 5.44 pm

      I’m still undecided whether to do the “vote til you boak” thing (there are 13 candidates in my constituency) and put the SNP and Greens last or whether just to vote for Alba and a few of the independents and leave the rest blank?

      Can I hurst the SNP and Greens more by using all 13 preferences or by leaving spaces blank?

    16. Ruby says:

      The first seven answers to question 1 were what the men of Stepford put down as their requirements when ordering their ‘Stepford Wives’

    17. Platinum says:

      You’re right, there are no parties that will defend biological reality standing in my ward, no Alba, so I will be spoiling my paper with a giant WOMAN = ADULT HUMAN FEMALE, just like I did for the Scottish parliamentary elections last year.

      I was always brought up by my mother to know that women fought and died for my right to vote. Now no politician is willing to say that women even exist. ?

    18. Ruby says:

      ‘Vote Till You Boak’ on Thursday

      My list

      SNP last Finlay McFarlane
      Greens 2nd last
      SNP third last Marianna Mwiki

      All Unioninist parties will come after SNP & Greens on the bottom of the list.

      All other candidates listed in order of their pro/anti woman stance.

      In my case Alba will get the number one spot.

      That just leaves me 6 independents to decide on. 5 men 1 woman.

      Bonnie Prince Bob has a stupid name so he could be last of the six with the woman first – although that might change depending on what I find out about these guys between now & Thursday.

      Would be handy to know how they would define a woman.

    19. Politically Homeless says:

      And if you do have an Alba candidate standing in your ward, there’s also a good chance they have a Twitter account full of Alex Jones style gubbins about how Ukraine committed war crimes against their own population tO DeMOnIZe PuTIn!!!11

      Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we are well and truly fucked.

    20. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Can I hurst the SNP and Greens more by using all 13 preferences or by leaving spaces blank?”

      The former.

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Bonnie Prince Bob has a stupid name so he could be last of the six with the woman first – although that might change depending on what I find out about these guys between now & Thursday.

      Would be handy to know how they would define a woman.”

      Bonnie Prince Bob is a full on transactivist.

    22. Andy Ellis says:

      @Rev Stu 7.19 pm

      Thanks for that, so….SNP 12 & 13, Green 11, Bonnie Prince Bob 10, then unionists, then independents with Alba 1st. Sorted!

    23. Wee Chid says:

      According to the positive responses to several of these questions, I don’t qualify as a woman. Shit, some midwife must have assigned me the wrong sex at birth. What do I do?

    24. Mark Boyle says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 2 May, 2022 at 7:20 pm

      Bonnie Prince Bob is a full on transactivist.

      I thought he was just a full on shitgibbon.

    25. Robert says:

      @Rev Stu Campbell

      Agreed BPB seems to be a transactivist — though he’s cagey about it, like most of them — what’s clear is that he’s a ecomaniac with a saviour complex. Definitely one to avoid.

    26. Robert says:

      *egomaniac dammit!

    27. wee monkey says:

      Dave McDave says:
      2 May, 2022 at 3:46 pm
      Officially Electorally Disenfranchised- not ONE party worth voting for in my ward. Truly a sad state of affairs in this day and age.

      Same. No matter how you vote, NOTHING changes, same troughers, 123,231,312 get in. Democracy, as in making a change for the better, is finished in Scotland, locally and nationally.

    28. Mark Boyle says:

      The SNP have just put a leaflet through our door.

      Only A5 sized, their list of promises and what wonderful people their candidates are is written in Ariel 7 point – the size usually reserved for the “Printed by” “On the behalf of” bit as per legal requirements – half the recommended size by the Royal National Institute For The Blind if they want the visually impaired to read it.

      If you put unreadable leaflets through letterboxes, it’s more likely to cost you votes rather than gain them as it pisses people off, especially among the oldies, whom you’d now just motivated to vote for anyone but you!

      If this is atypical of the SNP’s council campaign “strategy”, they could find themselves in trouble on Thursday … oh who am I kidding? They could have posted a leaflet of the pair of them shagging sheep and they’d still get in – four seats, six candidates, one of them a Liberal Democrat paper candidate, so effectively five.

    29. susanXX says:

      I truly despair of this government.

    30. Robert says:

      Surprised & disappointed to learn that Alba are only fielding candidates in 10% of wards — is there a candidate list anywhere?

      @Ruby

      The Edinburgh Central independent candidates seem to be a very mixed bags:

      Maria Pakpahan-Campbell (@PakpahanMaria on twitter) knows what a woman is.

      Bonnie Prince Bob we’ve mentioned.

      His ally is former rugby international Norrie Rowan who was arrested for assault https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/former-scotland-rugby-star-norrie-1129614 and fined for breach of the peace https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12028687.former-scotland-rugby-player-fined-250-over-violent-outburst-to-lawyer-rowan-made-death-threat/.

      Paul Penman seems to be a Tory or possibly a former Tory.

      Kevin Illingworth (@Kevini_Official) is a former athlete “parent of a transgender person”.

      Pete Carson (@petecarson) appears to be a joke candidate.

    31. Ruby says:

      Points off PAKPAHAN-CAMPBELL, Maria for having zero online presence.

      Paul Penman & Norrie Rowan both interested in local issues like pot holes, tartan tat, drug addicts, cycle lanes, traffic jams etc.

      Norrie Rowan ex Rugby player talks about the ‘Pubic Triangle’ which I don’t know much about. He thinks ‘Pubic Triangle’ better licenced than closed.

      https://twitter.com/petecarson?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

      I think Pete would definitely have a definition of a woman. I’ll put him ahead of Bonnie Price Bob althoough I’m not sure he wants to be a councillor.

      https://tinyurl.com/32hjtm7y

    32. wullie says:

      I don’t have anyone to vote for in my ward. So Im going to spoil the paper, does anyone know the best way to mark the paper. I see someone mention the the count would be by machine. There again I worry when humans are the ones doing the counting particularly when they have writing implements close to hand.
      So how to spoil the ballot papered still make it be noticed.

    33. Ruby says:

      wullie says:
      2 May, 2022 at 8:46 pm

      I don’t have anyone to vote for in my ward.

      Which ward are you in? Do you not have anyone standing up for woman’s rights?
      What about ‘voting till you boak’ and putting the SNP Greens on the bottom of the list?

    34. Geoff Bush says:

      Dave McDave & Wee Monkey – you could have stood for election yourselves and democracy wouldn’t be dead !

    35. Confused says:

      the mystery of anthrax island – on now

      many depths for nationalists to think of

    36. Ruby says:

      This is my updated list:

      1. Alba
      2. Maria Pakpahan
      3. Paul Penman
      4. Norrie Rowan
      5. Kevin Illingworth
      6. Bob Carson
      7. Bonnie Prince Bob
      8. Labour
      9. Lib-Dems
      10. Tories
      11. SNP – Marianna Mwiki
      12. Greens
      13. SNP – Finlay McFarlane

    37. Saffron Robe says:

      I really don’t understand how transgenderism can even be encapsulated in law since it is not rooted in reality. You can only prove in law what someone is (e.g. a biological male or a biological female), not what they think they are or may say they are. The truth can only be established from the evidence i.e. what is scientifically provable in accordance with reality. For instance, if a transwoman were to commit a crime and they were identified through their (male) DNA, are they to be absolved of that crime because they say they are a woman and can’t be accused of a male crime? Would even charging them with the crime then become transphobic? It is utterly absurd and the law itself will be thrown into chaos.

    38. Confused says:

      Astonished that Gruinard film ever got made, and more so got shown on BBC.

      BBC Scotland though, which no one watches.

      Pseudo twat rory scothorne, old wings favourite and bella contributor is on.

      Lots of fun for the home counties camper van crowd on the North Coast 500. Is that a tick bite Nigel?

      Direct action works, who knew?

    39. She/Her, `feminist to her fingertips` Sturgeon, won`t define what a `woman` is because it might hurt the feelings of some men

      She/Her would legalise the mutilation and drugging of children rather than hurt the feelings of a few men,

      She/Her would ruin the dreams of young woman`s sports careeers rather than upset some men,

      She/Her would force young school girls into mix sex toilets just to please some men,

      She/Her would force a female prisoner to be locked in the same cell with a male convict just to keep the male convict happy.

      SNP/Green Scottish Gov are an abomination.

    40. Obsidian says:

      https://twitter.com/AlbaAyrshire/status/1520179580505571329
      I hope I’ve put in the link correctly, as it’s my first time posting on Wings. The `guidelines` to which you refer is actually non-statutory GUIDANCE. Given that both the 5-14 curriculum and Curriculum for Excellence were/ are both non-statutory, you can see that this `guidance` is very much happening – it is current guidance, and any deviation from it will be frowned upon by employers and the Inspectorate.

    41. And Spouse says:

      W3 – how can 161 people support this? I don’t get it. What has been their life experience to take them to this decision?
      W4 240 folks have no idea that school pupils don’t drink during the day so they don’t have to go near the toilets. With this legislation that would get worse.

      Spoiling my paper. No ALBA, no ISP. Every mail drop suggests everyone is going to fix this or fix that. Since I started voting, I’ve heard promises to fix the NHS and Education and social imbalance. Surely they should be fixed by now?

    42. Suzanne K says:

      I’m so politically disenfranchised in this election it’s heartbreaking. I have all the usual suspects, 2 x Tory, Labour, LibDem, 2 x SNP, Green and the Family Party.
      What a choice eh?!
      The only one who knows what a woman is also wants to remove bodily autonomy from women. Fabulous.

    43. Muscleguy says:

      I have an Alba candidate to vote for. No ISP but to get that I would have to be the candidate and I resigned from the party after the debacle of the Holyrood election when I was a candidate (vetted, with a PVG certificate, unlike the SNP now).

      Alba’s claim to be a mass membership party is not borne out by their lack of candidates standing in this election. Lots of loudmouths who will not put themselves on the line.

    44. Breeks says:

      OT
      “Nicola Sturgeon has accused Anas Sarwar of “political immaturity” for ruling out coalitions with the SNP after Thursday’s council elections.”

      https://archive.ph/MuTeP

      Ye couldn’ae make it up.

      You know what? This two faced duplicity is now so painfully transparent that you begin to suspect being outraged by it has been their deliberate intention all along.

      Same with not releasing Legal advice, sabotaging Martin Keating’s case, and celebrating their “openess” while bulk buying marker pens for all the redactions they do.

      What a curse upon us all we have in Nicola Sturgeon.

    45. Chas says:

      Alba first. SNP last. Greens second last with the Tories just above them. No idea about the rest but if I want my bottom choices to count I suppose I have to rank all candidates in some order?

      It is refreshing to see 2 articles with no input from Scum 1 (RoS). Long may this continue.

    46. Stoker says:

      I find W3. the most concerning from the poll above. While it is good that 84% are against, i find it worrying that 16% find it totally acceptable for a child as young as 4 to change its name & sex without teachers having to consult or inform parents (in the interests of political correctness these days i prefer the term guardians to “parents”). 🙂

      I’m curious as to how many of that 16% actually have children?

      As far as voting goes i’ll be spoiling my ballot if there’s no Alba choice for Kelso district. And if there is i’ll *ONLY* be marking that box. I’ve *NEVER* given any form of support for Unionist parties and i’m not about to start.

    47. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      3 May, 2022 at 8:29 am
      No idea about the rest but if I want my bottom choices to count I suppose I have to rank all candidates in some order?

      How about listing them in order of their pro or anti woman stance? Misogynists at the bottom with the SNP, Greens & all Unionist parties then you will just be left to decide about the independents. Thank you in advance from one of the many very angry Scottish women.

      PS Would you be happy to say which ward you are in? Perhaps this woman could return the favour by doing some research into your choice of candidates.
      Cheers!

    48. Ruby says:

      Stoker says:
      3 May, 2022 at 8:49 am

      I’m curious as to how many of that 16% actually have children?

      Maybe that 16% although they don’t have children really really like children and think keeping secrets from the parents (guardians if you prefer) is a very good idea.

    49. Contrary says:

      On council elections STV voting, I watched the animal kingdom video explanations, read an article explaining Scotland specific type of STV and did some very very rough speculative sums and I’ve concluded:

      I will NOT vote til I boak. Unless you know everything about every candidate & want to get involved in messing up unionist favourites voting: by putting any mark against a unionist you are contributing to their vote share in some way. Far too complicated & not worth the time & trouble.

      Excluding the snp and greens too, not sure there’s anyone to vote for at all in my ward – I have at least one ‘independent’ to investigate though.

      Sigh.

      Tons to say about the poll results there, but at the moment it just involves swearing a lot so will leave that til later.

    50. Stoker says:

      @ Ruby on 3 May, 2022 at 9:05 am

      It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they were that way inclined.

    51. Stoker says:

      @ Contrary on 3 May, 2022 at 9:17 am

      Very wise! I cannot recommend enough the importance of looking into each candidate and what they stand for. Their history is every bit as important as the guff they’re currently spouting. Especially so-called “independents”. They are nearly always formerly from Unionist parties so it’s extremely likely their core beliefs are of a Unionist bent. And remember, folks, as the article above states, ALL the Unionist parties support Sturgeon’s Stonewall anti-science agenda.

    52. Mark Boyle says:

      Muscleguy says:
      3 May, 2022 at 7:52 am

      I have an Alba candidate to vote for. No ISP but to get that I would have to be the candidate and I resigned from the party after the debacle of the Holyrood election when I was a candidate (vetted, with a PVG certificate, unlike the SNP now).

      Alba’s claim to be a mass membership party is not borne out by their lack of candidates standing in this election. Lots of loudmouths who will not put themselves on the line.

      I did notice that the ISP were standing less council election candidates than they were proffering for Holyrood by one.

      It has been completely caught out now as another “fake it till you make it” outfit, bigging itself up to be a greater deal than it was beyond credulity, demanding “parity” of treatment with Alba, and now crying because Salmond (despite its protestations) clearly seeks to destroy it by running candidates against it at the ballot box where possible instead of the pragmatics of giving them a clear run. Thirteen candidates is a joke after all their grandiose claims, a fraction of what even the Scottish Family Party (which certain elements really belong in) are standing.

      A sad waste of energies, and I still say they had the correct name for any “alternative” to the SNP and better presentation (limited as it was) – but they were too much like a Poundstore SDP – believing glossy presentation could take the place of member numbers and hard work. They’re the classic “hobby party”, usually the preserve of the political extremes.

      As for Alba’s lack of candidates, same applies. Granted there is also the problem that to stand for a council election each candidate will be paying for their own leaflets largely out of their own pocket – and that’s not cheap. There’s always the Lib Dem option of standing as a “paper candidate”, relying on the “brand name”, but for a new party that is electoral suicide – better not to stand at all, but to husband resources for the “next time”.

    53. Prasad says:

      Depressing to read how thick Yes voters are (comparatively).
      I can’t explain it. There can’t be that many SNP members to sway this poll. I suppose that those Yes voters supporting GRA have been conned into thinking that this is a progressive policy by newspapers like the Guardian and BBC.

    54. Mike17 says:

      Strange that you mention Alba but not the Scottish Family Party.

    55. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Just a wee correction. Alba are standing in over 30% of wards (111/352) not fewer than 10% as stated in the piece.”

      Sorry, I should have said “seats”.

    56. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Strange that you mention Alba but not the Scottish Family Party.”

      Because they’re a bunch of nutters.

    57. Robert says:

      @Rev Stu

      Thanks for the correction — 10% did sound very low!
      Is there a publicly available list of all Alba candidates (or, all candidates)?

    58. Robert says:

      PS. Would be good to correct that figure in the main text.

    59. Stoker says:

      Robert says on 3 May, 2022 at 1:13 pm:

      “Is there a publicly available list of all Alba candidates (or, all candidates)?”

      So far all i can find are these:

      From December 2021: “THE ALBA party has committed to fielding candidates for every mainland council in Scotland at the next election.” https://archive.ph/BDkxq

      From March 2022: “THE Alba Party will field at least 100 candidates in the Scottish local council elections in May,” https://archive.ph/klEvh

      I think the closest you’re likely to get what you’re looking for, Robert, is to go to all Scotland’s Councils’ websites and note them down. 🙂

    60. Chas says:

      Ruby

      Am in Falkirk East Constituency.
      Did some research myself and horrified to discover no Alba candidate in my ward. I thought there was but they are in different Falkirk areas. This leaves me with a bit of a dilemma as who to select as first choice.
      There is an ‘Independent’ lady, who is ex SNP. Maybe she has seen the light?, but will she be tarnished by previous experiences as an SNP Councillor?
      Not sure how it will work if I simply put SNP last and Greens second last out of the 7 candidates on ballot paper and forget about ranking the other 5? On the other hand I could vote for the women first but stick to my original choices for the bottom 2.
      Decisions, decisions but, at the end of the day, will it make any difference given the thick SNP voters in my ward?

    61. sarah says:

      @ Robert at 1.13: list of Alba candidates? Ballotbox Scotland on April 1st did a detailed article which included data on which parties are standing in every ward. But doesn’t name the candidates, I think. Perhaps if you emailed the Alba party?

    62. Lorna Campbell says:

      Mr Campbell: I did a very unscientific scrutiny of the numbers of trans identified people (males) taking part in Pride rallies (not the activists and supporters or female trans identified people, who will, by and large, not access male spaces to the same degree as, being female, they will have the same fears as other females) and multiplied that number from one rally by all the towns and cities in the UK (separately in Scotland), and I could be very wrong here, but I believe it runs into thousands and thousands of autogynephiles. Not all will identify as women and not all will seek GRCs, but once the door to self-ID is thrown open, the numbers will be huge, not the tiny handful of individuals the SG purports to champion or Stonewall admit to.

    63. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      3 May, 2022 at 5:45 pm

      Ruby

      Am in Falkirk East Constituency.
      Not sure how it will work if I simply put SNP last and Greens second last out of the 7 candidates on ballot paper and forget about ranking the other 5? On the other hand I could vote for the women first but stick to my original choices for the bottom 2.

      All I know about the ‘vote till you boak’ malarky is what I read on WGD of all places. What I understand is you need to choose all candidates for it to work.

      WGD’s aim with the ‘vote till you boak’ procedure was to keep the Tories out by putting them on the bottom of the list. He would probably be horrified to know I had followed his instructions but instead of putting the Tories last I decided to put the SNP/Greens last.

      https://tinyurl.com/y267yswy

      My vote probably won’t make any difference but it does feel good doing something about the bloody SNP & Greens. I’ll enjoy putting them last on the ballot paper. Yes! Air Punch!

      I’ve got my list all typed out ready to take to the polling station in Edinburgh Central on Thursday.

      This is it. 2-7 are all independents.
      I’ve chosen them depending on how pro or anti women they are. From 7 downwards they are definitely anti-women. 1 & 2 pro women. 3-4-5 no evidence to suggest they are anti-women 6 is a comedian who wants to be the sheriff and not a boring coucillor. 🙂

      1. Alba
      2. Maria Pakpahan
      3. Paul Penman
      4. Norrie Rowan
      5. Kevin Illingworth
      6. Bob Carson
      7. Bonnie Prince Bob
      8. Tories
      9. Labour
      10. Lib-Dems
      11. SNP – Marianna Mwiki
      12. Greens
      13. SNP – Finlay McFarlane

    64. Ruby says:

      Many questions about self-id and no answers.

      If you don’t want a GRC, new birth certificate, passport then is it true that all you have do is claim you are a woman?

      You could be a woman just on the days you fancy entering the ladies changing rooms, hospital wards, prisons, hostels etc etc etc.

      Equally you could be trans whenever you fancy although I don’t have to be trans to be a trans woman.

      It would be interesting if interviewers now asked Starmer, Sturgeon etc etc ‘What is a trans-woman’

    65. Ann Rayner says:

      Great question, Ruby, at 8.11 pm today. What IS a trans woman?
      I can say that I am a woman as it says so on my paasport and birth certifiace plus I have the right ‘bits’ and they all work as shown by my four children, all breast fed for 6-10 months. However, I’m not sre I qualify on the criteria of makeup, painted nails, high heels etc as far too much bother.
      How do you prove you are a transwoman if you’ve had no surgery no hormone treatment, no psychological assessment? Is it enough to wear a dress and a wig, high heels, make up and paint your nails probably have false boobs as well?
      Its an absolye caricature of what a woman is, a bit like the ‘glamourous females’, all boobs and bum, in the seaside postcards that men used to lech over, a complete traversty!

    66. Ruby says:

      You could have a full beard, wear all male gear collar & tie, man’s suit & a pair of size 12 boots and you could still be a trans woman.

      Nobody would dare to question why you were in the ‘ladies’ changing room, toilet, hospital ward etc etc If the they did the ‘trans woman” could just call the police and have you charged with a hate crime.

      Have you seen this:

      https://tinyurl.com/32bfwyb6

    67. Ruby says:

      Ooops spotted a typo in my earlier post:

      Equally you could be trans whenever you fancy although you don’t have to be trans to be a trans woman.

      That probably doesn’t make sense but hey does any of this trans stuff make any sense.

    68. Clavie Cheil says:

      I could never vote for any party that takes its orders from south of the border or click their heels and goosestep to London’s command.

      The fact that there are those here who would vote for the anti Scottish Tory Party and the anti Scottish Labour Party and the anti Scottish Lib Dems with any preferences at all just show me that those individuals are Quislings and Yoons deep down. You have outed yourselves.

    69. Robert says:

      I’ve twice tried to post my response to Ruby’s voting list but it hasn’t appeared. Third time lucky:

      Paul Penman is an ex-Tory & to the right of the Tories
      Norrie Rowan refuses to state his views on women’s rights.

      I will be voting
      1. Alba
      2. Maria Pakpahan
      3. Pete Carson

      and no others.

    70. Ruby says:

      Clavie Cheil says:
      3 May, 2022 at 9:56 pm

      I could never vote for any party that takes its orders from south of the border or click their heels and goosestep to London’s command.

      The fact that there are those here who would vote for the anti Scottish Tory Party and the anti Scottish Labour Party and the anti Scottish Lib Dems with any preferences at all just show me that those individuals are Quislings and Yoons deep down. You have outed yourselves.

      Who are you going to vote for Clavie?

    71. Ruby says:

      Robert says:
      3 May, 2022 at 10:05 pm

      Paul Penman is an ex-Tory & to the right of the Tories
      Norrie Rowan refuses to state his views on women’s rights.

      If voting for these two keeps the SNP & Greens out that will suit me fine. I wanted to tick all thirteen boxes and there weren’t that many ideal candidates. You’ve taken the easy way out by only voting for three. Can I ask why three and not just two? Do you really want Pete Carson as your councillor?

    72. Robert says:

      @Ruby

      No, I don’t really want Pete Carson as my councillor, but he won’t be elected (nor will Maria) & I don’t mind registering a protest vote for a joke candidate. We need more of those!

      What I won’t do is register a vote of any kind for a Tory or for a candidate who won’t express support for women’s rights. Not even to keep a worse candidate out. Voting for the “lesser of two evils” just ensures that evil keeps winning…

    73. Ruby says:

      Robert says:
      4 May, 2022 at 8:54 am

      @Ruby

      No, I don’t really want Pete Carson as my councillor, but he won’t be elected (nor will Maria) & I don’t mind registering a protest vote for a joke candidate. We need more of those!

      What I won’t do is register a vote of any kind for a Tory or for a candidate who won’t express support for women’s rights. Not even to keep a worse candidate out. Voting for the “lesser of two evils” just ensures that evil keeps winning…

      You and I have a totally different understanding of how the STV voting system works. The lesser of two evils between the Tories & the SNP is the Tory. Hence the reason why I have the SNP last on the list.

    74. Robert says:

      @Ruby

      No, I understand how it works… I just don’t choose to play the game

    75. Robert says:

      PS. Pete Carson replied saying “you don’t want to vote for me”… and the list gets shorter

    76. Kat says:

      So I downloaded the data tables and I analysed the Other responses to W1 and I found:

      a) 8 (12%) should have selected the All women are female option
      b) 3 (5%) are Don’t Knows
      c) 3 (5%) did not answer the question at all
      d) 4 (6%) could be considered typical Gender Critical responses based on rejecting the gendered stereotypes of the other options
      e) 48 (73%) responses could be classified as typical Trans Activist responses, including accusations of transphobia and bias

      This suggests the Other option was largely used by Trans Activists to avoid confirming they believe gender stereotypes define living as a woman. Interestingly 12 of the 48 responses used circular reasoning, eg identifying as a woman, 5 claimed taking hormones or having surgery meant you were living as a woman, and 2 claimed it was too complicated to define.

      So if we adjust the response rates according to points a) b) and c) above, Other would decrease to 5% and All women are female would increase to 73%.



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