Voices of nationalism
We’ve had these sitting around for a few days without getting round to posting them, but as we’re currently knee-deep in the last tranche of data from our Panelbase poll, it seemed as good a time as any to clear the decks.
First up in the ambiguously-named Posterotron is the “respectable” face of British nationalism, in the form of UKIP European-election candidate David Coburn.
Easy, ladies.
And secondly it’s an encore from the darling of the BritNat grassroots, Scottish Defence League supporter “Kev Milne”, aka Kevin Urquhart, as he harasses a second group of Yes campaigners in the Wester Hailes area of Edinburgh.
We post these not as circus freaks to be mocked – okay, let’s be honest, it’s partly that – but more as a warning to Yes supporters to use their time wisely.
There are people beyond the reaches of reason, shielded by an impenetrable barrier of self-imposed ignorance. We’ve all encountered them, and we’ve all sometimes let our emotions get the better of our judgement and wasted an hour of our lives arguing with them on Twitter or Facebook or comment threads or wherever.
But the clock is ticking, and we’re probably only going to get one shot at this. (Anyone telling themselves otherwise is labouring under a dangerous delusion.) Every moment spent bashing your face off a brick wall trying to have an intelligent conversation with somebody who has no interest in – and perhaps even no capability for – one is a moment thrown away that could have gone to an infinitely more useful end.
We don’t often make rallying calls on this site. While unashamedly partisan in terms of the debate, we try to maintain some level of journalistic detachment rather than cheerleading. And this plea – which others have made before us – will likely be just as much of a waste of time as attempting to debate with the likes of Kevin Urquhart or David Coburn, but we’re going to give it a shot anyway just so we can say we tried.
Abandon the lost causes. Ignore the trolls. Unfollow the provocateurs. Do something constructive instead. Research some facts. Go and help out your local Yes group with leafleting or canvassing. Catch up on some useful reading and arm yourself with arguments for the big chunk of Scots who are still ready to be persuaded. Write articles and send them to us. Anything other than shouting into the void that is the minds of people like those recorded above.
We can’t win everyone over, but we don’t have to. 50%+1 is all we need, and we’ve got four-fifths of that already. The goal is in reach, but only if we keep our eyes on the road, not on the neds sticking their erses out of the window in the opposite lane.
Exactly…focus the energies.
Its like when youre hosting a party…never concern yourself with the people who wont be turning up, concentrate on the people that have!
And by the way Rev, poor choice of wording – ‘We post these not as circus freaks to be mocked’…some of us folk actually like the Circus!
Might I point out that you probably should take your own advice? 😉
This is the soundest of advice.
Hear hear! Ive had a feeling the Yes camp haven’t been playing to out strengths in the past few weeks. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve seen us focus a tad too much on BTs weaknesses rather than our strengths.
A good rallying call
“Might I point out that you probably should take your own advice?”
I note in the piece that WE’VE ALL had moments of weakness, and “all of us” includes me. But I have a hair-trigger blocking response on Twitter now and I very rarely rise to trollbait any more.
You’re right and this is the best advice. These negative people are like sponges for your time and energy. Don’t waste it as both are not in infinite supply, while ignorance always is.
As I don’t condone violence, I would request the person responsible for giving that UKIP poster boy two black eyes hands themselves in.
@Rev
Frankly I’ve been impressed with the amount of patience you have displayed so far.
The multiple chances Rona had to jump in and question that fat oaf are innumerable.
I wonder if she instead chose to give him “just enough rope to hang himself”
People that think like him and have the audacity to appear on TV and say it out loud, really need a good slap.
I have simply stopped having any form of contact with them. It makes me heart sick to debate people as wilfully ignorant as the gentleman in this video clip. Its even more sickening to think, that when he left, he thought he had won. It reminds me of an excellent put down from the movie “Bill Madison” – with a small change there & there, it can be used to shut down any “engagement” and you then retire.
“Mr. Unionist, what you’ve just said… Is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this debate is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
I went for a haircut the other day and my barber told me he was voting no because of the way the building of Holyrood had been handled.
Nothing I said would change his mind.
My Granny used to say “They are more to be pitied than scolded” I think in the case of the “Gentlemen” featured above that is exactly the right way to treat them.
Poor wee lambs!!!
Next!
Spot on. Even I don’t expect it to be unanimous.
As an initial step people should consider wearing a Yes badge. It doesn’t sound like much but it does tends to be a conversation starter, provoking the debate needed to break down the walls of ignorance that shelter better together.
“Active not angry”, as my son said.
Good advice.
That’s why I stopped facing up to English comedy trolls, BNP and EDL louts, that turned the Guardian’s Scottish Independence forum into a parade of lunacy, watched over without sanction by “lite touch” moderators. Indeed, it’s what I meant earlier when suggesting some people here are so innured to their circumstances and unsettled by the slightest talk of change for the better that you waste effort repeating argument they don’t want to hear.
Better to concentrate on the open-minded keen to make the right decision.
Keep calm, vote YES.
I wear my yes wristband, badges and have a yes car sticker. I don’t see too many more in fact saw a ukok sticker on a car today and gave me the dry boak. I don’t give a f*ck if it makes me a target for unionist halfwits like Kev Milne I do wish though that we were more visible.
Very well said,Rev, and not a minute too soon. It is so easy to be distracted by this sort of rubbidge. We must concentrate on the goal now and win this referendum. Then the work begins.
Excellent advice Mr C. Ever since I had my car “Yes’d” I’ve taken a bit of a back seat with trying to persuade my customers or anybody I talk to to do the right thing. And when anyone tries to be a smartarse and tell me “yir no gitiin the pound” I now just laugh and tell them I don’t care because I know what I’m voting for is right. It’s right for me and it’s right for Scotland. Watching they two vids still shocks me a wee bit but not as much as a month or so ago and that is mainly with coming on here at least 18914* times a day for some sanity.
*see what I did there.
The numpty in the second video going on about poverty
doesn’t realise that it is the result of Westminster’s
policies.
I doubt whether he would be able to understand any
point put to him that is contrary to his own blinkered
view.
Sad really.
O/T – STV news – Nessie’s f*cked off! nae wunner if half the country think we shouldn’t be an independent country she’s probably thinking what the f*ck are these lot all about!
Some folk will never be convinced.
I mentioned a NO voting relative of mine on here before. He married a Dublin lass back in the ’50’s, and saw a horse in someones front garden.
“That’s what independence does for you, feckin horses in the front gardens in your capital city!”
He is a Labour drone.
Within any population there are those who remain firm on their views even if you were to put a gun to their pet dog’s head. They are simply not for budging.
But the size of the group within which are those who want to be persuaded to vote YES, just so long as they are given a logical, factual, sensible reason to, is huge.
And they have a name; “DON’T KNOWS”.
This looks very interesting……..
Scotland likely to choose independence, foreign diplomats believe
Sources in diplomatic corps in Edinburgh say tide of opinion has shifted, while opinion polls show increase in support for yes vote
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/10/scotland-likely-choose-independence-foreign-diplomats?CMP=twt_gu
Can I suggest everyone has a look at this article from Gerry. Sobering thoughts indeed.
http://www.scottishreview.net/GerryHassan153.shtml?utm_source=Sign-Up.to&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=8427-316493-The+strange+background+of+Margo+MacDonald
Seems to me like its another lost deposit for the ukip one cause party,no surprise there.Re the second video, The Scottish Government has no control over uk borders,westminster does.
The guy in that second video reminds me so much of John Paul from Limmy’s show, sounds and acts exactly the same.
Choose your battles well. No point arguing with an extremist unless you think you can convince bystanders that the extremist is the numpty – so be reasonable at all times and walk away if you need to. Similarly don’t argue with non-extremist no supporters, debate calmly with them, but again ideally in front of bystanders (you’re more likely to convert one of them than your opponent tbh).
I second, third, or whatever number we’re up to on carrying yes merchandise; would do same with wingsoverscotland but not too sure about the company that’s selling it and where the money goes. Anyway, i’ve got a shopping bag, a few pens, wrist band, badges. Shopping bag is the best as a walking advertisement. No one has hassled me. The aim, I guess, is to normalise the idea of voting yes – it’s not weird, it’s nothing to be embarrassed about, and you don’t need to be afraid of being attacked (well, I’m not sure about the last one but if I do get attacked, I’m sure our MSM will leap at the chance to cover my story – not), and last and not least, this may well be the only chance you get at saving the country from neoliberal hell.
It seems to me that Gerry Hassan prefers to talk a lot about perceived problems with independence that actually come up with any way in which to deal with them.
He’s been doing that since the start and there are some people who will always fear change.
I listened to 3 minutes of Kevin Urquhart’s ignorant (literally) rant. I couldn’t take any more. We should be pleased that he is posting these ludicrous videos – because although he appears to be semi-literate at best, his tactics are really rather similar to those of the BT leadership. Think of Darling’s interview on the Andrew Marr Show last Sunday – not really very different. Equally unstructured, illogical, incapable of being engaged with, not a discussion just a transmission of bile. These are the tactics that people resort to when they have adopted a position fron which they are determined not to budge and have no response to the arguments put to them. It’s very encouraging but we need to remember there are a lot of them and we all need to persuade a few don’t knows. We could still win the argument but lose the referendum.
I only reply to the no hopers for one reason, it gives me the chance to put in a positive link. I know they won’t read it, but I’ve no idea how many other people will click on it and get the message.
Oh, I dunno; if a Bitter Together rep comes round my doorstep, I intend to keep them talking for as long as possible, maybe even invite them in for a cuppa.
That way they’re not out spreading fear and lies.
You can’t reason with the scum but you can expose them, hound them from public life and destroy them utterly.
having been banned 7 times from Cif for exposing the racists I am beyond tolerating them anymore.
My God… why oh why oh why did Newsnight invite David Coburn on.
UKIP are dead in the water in Scotland. If anything, this is just helping the ‘Yes’ cause once more. If anything, just listening to the guy is enough to make you want out of the union. He offers nothing …just what they are doing in England, and intend to replicate in Scotland.
Well, that isn’t going to work. England has very, very different issues from Scotland. This is the equivilant of trying to fit a square peg through a round hole. It isn’t going to work!
Anything Rona said, was just batted out of the park with,‘ No, you’re wrong!’ No facts …just numbers out of the air.
Well, good luck in Scotland, David…just dinnae haud yir breath!
We need to start making people chat and they will do that when they can see evidence. So how many of you reading on here have a poster enen if it’s home made in your house window, very few I suspect. Why would they need to talk about the referendum when there little evidence.
Kevin Urquhart: lumpenproletariat
David Coburn: arrogant and insulting
@Rev
“Easy, ladies.”
ROFL
He looks like the archetypical Tory cad doesn’t he? “Oh daer me… seem to have left my wallet in the JAAAGG. I’l just go and warm it up – why don’t you take care of the bill, old chap?”
O/T and perplexed. Can someone explain to me why BBC News Scotland have just broadcasted an article about nuclear bombs exploding over Glasgow. Link to archive footage of the Cuban crisis 1962 and giving estimates of 60,000 dead and how it would be a good idea to evacuate the children to the countryside.
Was this a deliberate ploy or some attempt at a subliminal suggestion?
Am I being cynical or what?
@ Archie [not Erchie]
Got a link?
I understand that some may never change their minds, but there may still be some value in debating them when it’s in a public place or highly visible on the internet.
A moderate no-voter may see something like Kev Milne’s video and think “Oh crap, I’m on the same side as him, and use the same arguments”. Might make them start to question how reliable they are, and as we all know, as soon as people start asking questions they turn more & more towards “Yes”.
That’s how I came round on issues such as GM crops, global warming scepticism, and even (I’m ashamed to admit) Moon landing hoax conspiracy theories. I was exposed to debates & arguments and it quickly became apparent that the side I was on had no credible answers; there were just a lot of loud-mouthed zealots & people who went along with them without thinking. I didn’t want to be a non-thinker, so started to ask questions & that resulted in me changing my position.
@ RogueCoder – It was on the 6.30 TV News so perhaps IPlayer later.
Point of interest:Farage in Telegraph interview backed just 5 days ago “self determination” and if Scotland wants to become the “whatever number province of the EU they should do so”. With the usual caveat that Salmond is not offering “independence”. Which of course Salmond’s vision isn’t.
Interesting that Sillars ” In place of fear II” book points to controlled immigration.. Funny not the same ire directed at him.
If there is a No win, it won’t be because of extreme unbending Unionists, it will be because of the huge bias in the media (Inc BBC). It’s an asymmetrical campaign – a grassroots Yes versus a media driven No. It is about who in most effective at getting through to the Don’t Knows. The media are well established with a huge audience and we Yes grassroots are playing catch up.
JLT says:
“why did Newsnight invite David Coburn on.”
Seems to me that the whole BBC push for UKIP is to try and split the tory vote at the next election to let Labour in.
Look at the airtime Farage has had from them, he’s never off the screen and has been on QT almost as often as Dimbleby!
Just had a lovely shopping experience. Started chatting to the elderly lady in front, who originated from Lewis perhaps, judging by her accent.
She was a definite YES and her husband was even more for YES.
Lots of smiles between us and also amongst others queuing.
Nice that. 🙂
@X-sticks
I totally agree, that’s what I think ” and so do a lot of others ” THAT THE BBC ARE TRYING TO SPLIT THE TORY VOTE AND LET LABOUR IN ”
Shout it from the rooftops – the bbc are trying to split the tory vote to let Labour in.- that’s a lovely rumour to start – oh what mischief 🙂
I think the best way of strengthening the yes vote is through conversations with people who are havering. Thus far women have been less open to independence than men so I make a point of explaining why I have switched from no to yes, why I think that Scotland will be better off as a result of a yes vote, and why I am not concerned about issues that will affect me personally such as the pound and pensions. Normalising the yes option is key here; the aggressive no campaigners do not further their cause and I completely agree that ignoring their hysterics is the most effective way to neutralise them.
Part of the no strategy has been to present yes as the risky option. In contrast, the uncertainties of voting no have been downplayed. Perhaps we need to make more of the fact that a no vote is not a vote for the status quo, but that following it Scotland will be impoverished by increased austerity, marginalised by Westminster, and continue to provide a home for weapons of mass destruction.
Okay, that last line had been laughing out loud in the bus queue this evening! Its that combination of serious analysis and humour that I love about this place.
I have a Yes badge on my coat, I also wear a Yes baseball cap (or the beanie hat if its cold), and sometimes have my Yes bag with me – although I try not to have too much Yes going on all at once. I also stuck my big Yes poster up in my living room window (top floor flat)last night. I’ve had a couple of conversations started here in Dundee because of the Yes stuff, but so far, so good on avoiding any negative response (touch wood it stays that way). Slowly working on folk at work too, pointing them in the direction of here for starters.
Listening to rant from the runt. Does he say, “National Assistance Governments”?
Was that not changed in the 1960s from National Assistance Bureau, (or the brew), to Dept. of Employment, then DHSS?
Where is he getting his information from?
@Colin at 6:14 pm
But the Holyrood fiasco was a Labour and LibDem baby, wasn’t it? Still cheaper than the Millenium Dome.
Wear those badges, display Yes banners, Yes is normal – No is a wee bit iffy.
@X_Sticks
I don’t think the BBC are punting UKIP to let Labour in for two reasons.
The first is outwith Scotland the BBC mostly favours the Tories as the “establishment”. It is only in Scotland that they favour Labour as the Scottish “establishment” as a bulwark against Scottish nationalism. This is about the only respect in which BBC Scotland is slightly devolved from the rest of the BBC.
Secondly, supporting UKIP is just as likely to harm the Labour vote as the Tory vote in the short run. It gives people an “escape valve” of an opposition who aren’t that different from the Tories to stop them going straight over to Labour If UKIP and the Tories get over half the vote – that leaves Labour somewhat in the cold electorally.
UKIP are not only want to close down the Scottish Parliament but their plans for women of child-bearing age aren’t much better.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10741121/Nick-Clegg-v-Nigel-Farage-Hey-ladies-Nigel-Farages-Ukip-wants-to-turn-the-clock-back-for-womens-rights.-Fact.html
That Kevin Urquhart guy really is a complete tube. Again, I feel myself getting angry just listening to his bile. I pretty much block any unionist on Twitter these days, because they’re just not open to reason.
By the way, the latest No group is being launched. It’s called (wait for it…)
NHS Together.
That’s right folks, stay in the UK because of our, erm, separate health services…
G H Graham
Within any population there are those who remain firm on their views even if you were to put a gun to their pet dog’s head. They are simply not for budging.
I think the breakdown is roughly 20% tend towards intransigence, 20% tend towards gullibility and the rest of us keep society rolling.
I won’t do the regression myself but there is probably a correlation in there with party loyalty. 🙂
Not “Probably we will get only one shot at this”, definately only one shot, Stuart. A No vote will be disaster for “North Britain” as we will deserved to be called, on whatever level you care to name. There will never be another referendum on Scottish independence, as Westminster will make sure we can’t, even to the extent of abolishing the Scottish Parliament. This is it. Fifteen hours on the 18th September to make us a nation again, independent, standing on our own two feet, making us in the process a fairer society, caring for our ain folk, and presenting a peaceful face to the world. Ignore the idiots, don’t rise to their abuse, walk away with a smile, safe in the knowledge that we can win, will win, and consign the U.K to the pages of the history books.
@malc re http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/10/scotland-likely-choose-independence-foreign-diplomats
Blimey! by Severin Carrell too.
No mention of Wing’s poll though, hah.
X-Sticks / Twenty14
No… I don’t believe that for a second (as in the BBC are trying to split the Tories). English media seem to fawn and adore Farage. Miliband …Pah! A complete waste of time! If anything, I would say the media are trying to make Farage look a lot more acceptable in the mainstream (especially down south where immigration is a huge hot topic). Should there be another hung parliament, then the thought of a Tory-UKIP alliance will look absolutely positive to Middle England.
Split the Tory vote …it’s not that. Whether the BBC just wanted to portray another face of so-called ‘Nationalism’, and try to portray it in the sense that if this guy sounds bad, then what about the Scottish Nats? Aren’t they just the same? I think it was a case of trying to tar ALL nationalists with the same brush. If UKIP sound barmy, then are the Scottish Nats not the same? I think it was subtle dig at the nationalists through a different perspective. The Rev’s headline is ‘Voices of Nationalism’. I think the clue is in that.
Here’s a video of someone struggling with reality. Kevin’s in it too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD4w_LaUQBs
And to take away the bad taste, some nice people having a good time and persuading others towards Yes. Our film including the good bits of Super Saturday at Wester Hailes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt7b6z_9ib8
I will be up in Edinburgh next week and I hope I meet up with some of these heroes who like to confront old men and young women boy it would make my day just for a talk with them you understand aye right. Vote yes
UKIP really are Tories with bells aren’t they? The SDl are just Bell…must be nice…must be nice.
“As an initial step people should consider wearing a Yes badge.”
YES supporters should make themselves, their houses, cars and shops highly visible. Show posters, wear YES badges, hats, jumpers, anything to normalise Independence support. Many people in a vote can be persuaded if the cause appears to be natural and popular.
Handandshrimp- That will be why 4 Labour Councillors in Dagenham and Redbridge defected to UKIP then in the last two weeks.
We know the loony’s name is Kevin Urquhart but does anyone have a pic of him?
“We know the loony’s name is Kevin Urquhart but does anyone have a pic of him?”
There are plenty on his Facebook page.
“As an initial step people should consider wearing a Yes badge.”
Oh God Yes this. I’ve been saying since the turn of the year that we need to spend the time between now and the end of May normalising the idea of a Yes vote. That means badges, posters in windows, car stickers and whatnot. People, if you’re not prepared to even wear a flipping badge to help win your country’s independence, you don’t deserve it.
Modern parlance – Urquhart is a ‘dick’ plain and simple, (apologies), but he is dangerous as he obviously has backers.
He sees himself as a British / Scotish crusader; he will of course eventually pick on the wrong target, (they always do), get a doing and disappear.
My advice to YES folk, call the cops when he appears, because he eventually gets threatening anyway.
@Alex Beveridge – Absolutely Alex this is it I think that the imperialists agreed to the referendum thinking that it would have been done and dusted 2 years ago as I do believe there would have been a landslide no at that time. They didn’t bank on the nous of our excellent FM who has given us this time to find out and spread the word.
Whether it is going to be enough and we can convince the don’t knows remains to be seen but we can only keep trying and hope, we will never shift the entrenched unionists and they must be left behind for now and we can build those bridges after independence.
@JLT & Steve
Maybe it’s just nostalgia, but I think the BBC still have a socialist labour party core who (like many here in SE Scotland) would vote for a monkey with a red rosette. Ed is probably unelectable, so the only possibility is to try and split the right wing vote. I could be wrong, but unless the BBC have indeed moved to the right what other explanation could there be.
Problem is that I do agree that a tory/ukip coalition is a very likely outcome at the next UK election because of the issues the SE England has.
Whatever, the perception that England has moved further right can only be good for our cause, and at the end of the day I don’t give a toss what they do down there. It’s what we do up here that is more important. 🙂
People, if you’re not prepared to even wear a flipping badge to help win your country’s independence, you don’t deserve it. Abso Stuart, I am not afraid they can stove my car windae in if they like I’ll get it replaced and put another 2 yes stickers on it, F*ck it this is it if you can’t wear it on your sleeve for your country then a region we will be!!
I just remembered something rather enlightening the elderly lady said to me in the supermarket queue, in a hushed voice…..
“We mustn’t talk about these things though.”
i.e Scottish independence.
I had to disagree with her in the friendliest and loudest possible fashion. That made her smile. 🙂
Jeezus, I managed 7 minutes of that rocket before I gave up. I’ll never get those back; thanks, Stu! 😉 I agree fully regarding the wearing of YES badges too. I always wear it when I come over the border into Scotland. I’ll also be wearing it on Sunday at Wakefield. I’ve also acquired a nice wee badge featuring a crossed Saltire and St George flag to go beneath it.
I think that should be a very clear statement of intent.
Couldn’t agree more Rev.
I got the car YES decals but are there any stickers the same size for my bike tote bag? I have a SCO car sticker on both my bike bags but I WANT A YES STICKER along side.
I have been wearing my little Yes badge (the ones the politicians tend to wear) since November and have only had one interaction with anyone but it was a positive one, woman cashier in Homebase said she’d need to get one of those. Now got a Yes sticker on my car, first one I bought widnae stick, but have only seen one other one on the streets of Hamilton (never seen a UKOK sticker thankfully).
Now got a Yes card on display from upstairs window. I’ve seen two others in Hamilton. Saw a guy emerge from Sainsburys last week wearing a larger Yes badge, but other than the couple of times I’ve shown my face at the Yes stand in the town centre, I haven’t seen any other badgewearers.
My card in the window, car sticker and badge wearing is not so much to convert anyone, that’s hardly likely, it’s to encourage other yessers to do the same and if they did pretty soon folk would see what the mood of the nation was.
Having just got back from a week in and around Glasgow, I am surprised how very few badges, posters. car stickers etc. that I saw. I had even put a couple more on the car to ‘blend in’.
Exactly what I thought this morning after spending two hours arguing with the idiots on Better Together page. I’d more or less decided not to do it again but this has absolutely convinced me!
Another Panel Base poll…bang up to date
http://www.yesscotland.net/news/new-poll-yes-47-strong-majority-would-vote-yes-indyref-if-better
Apologies if already linked
Evening Macart, on subject of shining examples of great vote YES debate, is there any word about Dorice from CiF Guardian at all? Noticed Kristine Kochanski huge absence too.
@cearc and Harry – I don’t know what the problem is it is a strange one. I drive 30 miles to work and 30 miles back on the A77, A78 so it’s busy roads and I have counted 2 yes sticker’d cars and now after today 2 ukoker’s and I have been looking for 6 months!. The ukoker’s obviously feel as strongly as me for their side of the argument it’s just that any sane person should only take the yes side.
I dunno but come on wingers we do need those stinking badges..
Saw my first ukok sticker on a car this morning actually.
I’m not that keen on car stickers. Wouldn’t mind a yes / wings badge though.
I do wear one of those smart wee Yes enamel badges on my suit jacket.
Saw my first UKOK sticker on a car this morning. Made me think I should get a Yes one but I’m not super keen on car stickers.
A ken whit that cunt wants
He wants a guid smack in the gub and at least oan the 19th September he’ll can get wan and it wont even make the papers
He sound like its the westminister guy again
An you know the sayin about empty vessels make the maist noise
He just engages his mouth afore his brain knows whit its supposed tae say
Folk like that just turn up wae their camera phones and try to get a rise so they can call us snp Nazi thugs or whitever they want tae call us
They should be filmed and when they get folk like that comin up to a perfectly peaceful YES stall and getting in folks faces and the police should be called straight away claimin that they fear for their own safety
Just fight them at their own game and use the laws and the law to keep them away
Having banged on about independence for more than half my life to just about anyone who would listen, i have come up against all the usual and well examined reasons for peoples reticence to think that we a)can, b)should and c)will but everyday now there seems to be someone else willing to “own up” and admit their desire to see us govern ourselves as an independent sovereign nation. There has truly been a sense of fear amongst a lot of people and almost a sense of guilt that “coming out” in this way will somehow set them apart from their peers, especially on social media sites. Even people i know who are Yes voters and have been for years have seemed reluctant to express that opinion in public. I can only imagine that it is the old flocking together instinct, that no one likes to be singled out in a crowd that have held them back. But as i said, everyday now another person is encouraged to stand up and shout in a loud and happy voice YES! Ground is being gained, not lost. Scotland is awakening. We are losing the fear and winning the confidence. We are struggling out of this despite ourselves and its fantastic. Can you hear it. Independence is coming.
Anyone telling themselves otherwise is labouring under a dangerous delusion.
They’re deluded if they think a No vote this time means another referendum like this one a few years down the line: Westminster are going to ensure that doesn’t happen.
Now, that’s not to say Scottish Independence in and of itself will be “now of never”: the First Minister rightly states it’s a matter of when, not if. With 40% of the electorate and rising backing a Yes vote, you’re not going to get that genie back in the bottle. But the fight will be much, much harder in the event of a No vote.
But we’re worrying about something that’s not going to happen. Not because we’ve got this “in the bag.” Not because we don’t have to work for it. But because now is the time to do it. If not now, then how many more people are we going to allow to die under the UK’s DWP crusade until we do? If not now, then how many more Scottish children will be pushed into poverty until we do? If not now, then how many billions of Scottish revenue will be spent on luxurious banquets in Whitehall?
I don’t believe a No vote will end the independence question – nor, I suspect, does Rev. But I don’t believe we should waste any time making sure it happens as soon as possible, in this unprecedented peaceful, democratic revolution.
If not now, then when? How many more indy campaigners like Margo won’t live to see their life’s work come to fruition? How much longer must this 80-year journey go on? How much more suffering has to take place before the people of Britain finally get it and act? We can do this now. We can quell the tide of poverty and austerity and pollution and death brought upon us by Westminster, why shouldn’t we act now?
Picture a No vote. Picture Holyrood’s powers being eroded, until it’s little more than a paper parliament. Picture the continuing assault upon Britain’s poor, disabled, disadvantaged and migrants – which the Scots have voted to be part of. Picture Westminster enacting legislation to ensure there can never be another referendum like this. Picture Westminster’s spending and privatization driving Britain into a northern Greece. Picture austerity riots quelled by merciless suppression with water cannon and police brutality. Picture “Great” Britain plummeting in the league tables as Westminster’s ruinous policies destroy the lives of millions. Picture Britain leaving the EU and a UKIP-dominated agenda undoing decades of social justice. Picture a landscape devastated by fracking and nuclear waste. Picture a nationwide resolution, as the desperate people realise that they have no choice but to change things drastically, after thousands upon thousands have died, communities rent asunder, while the 1% live in unparalleled wealth. And then, if we’re lucky, the Scottish people get independence some way or another – but it won’t be like this referendum.
We could stop that happening to Scotland, if we vote Yes now. And in providing the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland with concrete proof that there is an alternative, we may even stop it happening there too.
We could do this now. Why in God’s name wouldn’t you?
I must admit that I do have genuine fears of the Saxon imperialist warmonger military worshippers as they are unpredictable, hell hath no fury and all that..
“Oh God Yes this. I’ve been saying since the turn of the year that we need to spend the time between now and the end of May normalising the idea of a Yes vote.” – Rev
Come on folk, me, the Rev and others keep pointing it out – make it normal.
I’ve got four YES car stickers, one wristband and badges on different jackets. Also got YES stickers on front door and windows.
Fully agree with you Rev., Yes visibility is vital, badges, hats, stickers. Out canvassing I encourage declared Yes voters to visit the sites listed on Aye Write – always say that Wings can be a bit cheeky but good fun – so they can be well informed when talking to others. On encountering NOs I ask them if they would like to discuss the issues and this often works. Not a rant nor a debate but a relaxed talk over. A problem is that I get through much fewer addresses than my fellow canvassers, but if each of us can persuade one other – Margo’s wise words at the Edinburgh 2012 rally have stayed with me.
Take bow Rob, a YES volunteer from the vid.
Take a bow Rob, a YES volunteer from the vid.
Bloody iPad.
Just watching the BBC panorama on benefits caps…
Holy cow! I had no idea we (the taxpayer) were subsidising London to this level for cheap labour!
Once bloke – 7 kids, works part time as green grocer and earns £150 per week but needs £800 in benefits per week to get by!! WTF! How much have we the tax payer been subsidising London landlords???!!!
Yes badge on the jacket. Yes stickers on the cars. Big Yes sticker in the front window. Saltire been flapping in the breeze* over the drive since the jubylmpics.
*Bought a reserve of flags as lost a couple when it’s been blawin a hoolie. Will fly until independence day when I’ll take it down as no need after that.
@Taranaich – We could do this now. Why in God’s name wouldn’t you?
It’s hard for us to understand the mindset of the naysayers but this site and your own posts give us the ammo to sway the don’t knows. Another great post Taranaich
(Darlings – I wasnae meaning the usual subjects, just a wee hint to our lovely audience)
Yes badge’s, car stickers and other materials I’ve found seem to be as scarse as Nessie to get hold off without parting with money, if they were free I would have shifted a lot of them to folks to wear or handout.
OK granted I could join a yes campaign but I’m staying under the radar for personal reason’s, I asked a friend who’s a member of a local yes campaign to get me some badges and a few hundred yes newspapers to do my bit round here, that was 2weeks ago and still nothing,, the Yes campaign of 2014 is nothing compared to the 1979 campaign where everything was everywhere for nothing.
I have though got 8 wings car stickers on mine and friends cars and I got them for free from Men, Thanks that man..
Stu… this is your best article ever.
Scotland wins when the eyes stay on the prize.
I have had some positive news and results in my own endevours this last week… no rest for the wicked.
(Search Youtube for “DubFx no rest for the wicked”)
Sorry for OT, but have you seen this? An unnamed British foreign diplomat says Scottish Independence is likely.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/10/scotland-likely-choose-independence-foreign-diplomats
Just been reading the comments and watching the vids.You Central Belters[no pun intended]must be really up against it.
I would,however,remind you that the islands seem to be a particular focus of attack for BT.Any assist on their local media would be welcomed.
I’ve got two YES’s on my windows facing the street from a first floor flat and also wear a badge and bracelet.
I started wearing them about 4-5 weeks ago and I have seen more and more of them being openly worn as the weeks go by.
There have been a few days recently that have been great YES umbrella weather.
Earlier in the week, walking in the rain, I saw a middle-aged (maybes Tory-voting by her look) woman clock my YES umbrella, then stop.
As I approached and passed her on the pavement she could perhaps be best described as ‘agog’.
@ Bruce Wallace
Therein lies the problem. No one should be held back from expressing a political point of view in a true democratic forward thinking nation. If those reasons are work related, financial or a fear of personal safety then that is not only a great crime but also a great shame, a shame upon our nation and society.
@alexicon – Magic “The UK government’s policies are pushing Scotland away,” said one European consul. “My hunch is that unless the UK government radically rethinks, it’s on a hiding to nothing. It is losing the argument.”
Where is Flipper when you need him? haven’t seen him since the Marr diatribe of pish.
Krackerman re benefits of £1000+ in London.
Hence the speedily dusted down HS2 plans on the SNPs majority.They already know it’s in our bag and are looking to ensure cheap labour from the ‘burbs’.
There was a spanking big bright Yes banner covering a shed/hut in a garden visible from the Glasgow train as it approaches Saltcoats, but I noticed last week-end that it’s gone, probably a victim of the weather – hopefully it’ll be replaced as it must’ve had thousands of views daily.
Nice metal YES badge on all my jackets and suit. Stickers and banner on car. Also three T shirts for casual wear NNS front with vote YES in 2014 on back.
O/T
NNS have a piece up re: Fitch Report.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9032-yes-vote-would-hit-ruk-credit-rating-says-fitch
I was talking to a guy on the train today. He was takling to a young fella at his work who was having a go at Alex Salmond to someone on his mobile, After the call he told the guy
“That thing you were saying about taking the two salaries. That’s not true. You can check it yourself. He gave one to charity, Two Labour MSPs/MPs did the same after him.”
he was told “I bet he didn’t really” and a refusal to look at it.
That’s the sort of person out there, whatever reason they have, they will lot look beyond their fear, and the Rev is right, no point wasting time on them
@alexicon – WTF!
The pro-UK Better Together campaign and Scottish Labour argue privately that since their main campaigns against independence have not yet started, the latest opinion polls only reflect a temporary public mood
Not yet started! reminds me of an old one..
Here sit I broken hearted..paid a penny and only farted.
They have paid their penny!
Ian Brotherhood
Hopefully it’s back up[the saltire] when the wife and kids go down next week to see their Auntie.The oldest daughter is beginning to despare of much of you guys down there,despite my defence of Gallividians and Borderers in general.
Excellent article, wholly agree.
1. Don’t assume ‘others’ will win this for you. It takes ALL of us, whether that is wearing a badge or posting leaflets or just talking to friends.
2. get a badge for your coat and a sticker for your car
http://shop.yesscotland.net/essentials/stickers-and-badges/badges
3. do as little or as much as you can to help
http://www.yesscotland.net/join-in
4. Get the facts, either on this site, in the reference section, or via:
http://www.yesscotland.net/answers
We can win this, and now is the time to really push hard.
Is the guy in the two videos Kevin Urquhart?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD4w_LaUQBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCKUjizEqXE
Just back from Yes Midlothian’s meeting at Lasswade. Very well attended, with about 160 people there. Like the North Merchiston meeting on Wednesday, it was a full house with a few people standing.
Speakers were Blair Jenkins, Chief Executive of Yes Scotland, Robin McAlpine, Jimmy Reid Foundation & Common Weal, Jill Murphy, co-founder of Thin Red Line Design and Leader of Edinburgh City Business For Scotland, Colin Fox, SSP and Ian Baxter, Scottish Green Councillor. Derek Bateman was to chair but his replacement said that Derek had another commitment which made it impossible to attend. We know where he really was though, don’t we Wingers?
As usual, Robin and Colin were inspirational and the audience responded with enthusiastic applause. Colin’s speech in particular was impassioned and I confess I had a tear in my eye when he finished. Blair Jenkins turned up late due to the M8 being slow due to a bad accident but made a worthwhile contribution to the Q&A.
No BT trolls tonight but some good, solid questions, and again the best questioner on the night was a new Scot from Africa who told us that she had spent some time in England before moving to Scotland and found the welcome up here much warmer. She’d read the White Paper from cover to cover taking two weeks to do it!
One questioner said that his daughter was worried about voting Yes as somebody had told her that people would leave Scotland after a yes vote, house prices would decline and she’d be left in negative equity!
It was my pleasure to meet the famous Morag whom I recognised by the Wings badge she was sporting (gnashing of teeth as I don’t have one). We had a good chinwag about Wings and the Rev. Sitting next to Morag was a lady who said that she was undecided to start with and at the end of the meeting she was still undecided! As I left, Morag said she’d remain behind to have a chat to her to try to find out why she was unable to make up her mind. Interested to hear from Morag how she got on!
Housing benefit in the UK is £40Billion a year.
Some Dummy has ‘worked’ out Scotland’s ‘deficit’ is £9Billion a year?
£3Billion overpaid to Westminster, £4Billion on debt repayment Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. £1.5Billion on Trident and £1.5Billon could be saved by a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap drink. £10Billion. Sorted.
Got my YES badge , car sticker and window sticker ! Noticed on my way home to FIFE a huge YES board on a car at Barnton , Edinburgh . I’ve seen it before . It’s in a driveway! It lifts my spirits!
@goldenayr –
Aha!
I thought it was a Yes banner, but no matter – it’s in such a good place, the trains going relatively slow, gives folk a good chance to see it.
I’ve been thinking that the dunes between Saltcoats and Stevenston would be a great place to get some flagpoles up, no matter how temporary. (You never know – some rascal may erect some in the dead of night.)
Living in Ireland, I still wear my yes merchandise and my car is a yes car but I have no vote. The internet is where I can try to persuade but it is now more polarised online than it was during the devo referendum. Boy, were those yahoo boards cut throat then but people could be persuaded.
Margo going has made it all more personal. She babysat me a few times. My dad is a year older than she was, has survived cancer twice and has campaigned for independence for over 50 years. I want him to see an independent Scotland.
As for me, it is all I’ve known. Some of my earliest memories are car cavalcades and leaflets. I remember the ridicule you’d get for wanting an independent Scotland. Now it is within our grasp.
Do it for me, my dad, my kids and the memory of those who aren’t here to see it. Do it for the people in Scotland and do it with toleration for those who are closed to persuasion.
Rev- Don’t know if this already out there re: freebies but what if you got a big load of YES badges/stickers made/printed and sent out .( from the fund ) to everyone one that asked or possibly dropped off at local shops/premises throughout the Country for us to pick up on passing, this way there would be thousand’s of us with them
A massive Doh ! if I’m way behind the times
Soda @9.56.
I couldn’t have said it any better, I have registered to vote though and will accept any ramifications that come, if i had to join a Yes camp it would be like me ‘the turkey’ voting for christmas, but myself and a couple of friends in the same boat are grassroots campaigners only without the proper tools for free.
Rev
Just been thinking on this whole ‘denial’ thing.
As a minister you must be well used to that?
Without being flippant,we need a John The Baptist or St Columba.
Clancheif
your spelling mistake not mine.
Are you for real? I mean it is useful to spell Scots properly, and we on this site do tend to desist from using offensive swear words like the ones you use. If you have something to say, do try to say it intelligently using spellcheck.
‘Perfectly peaceful’?
Imposter trying to be radical SNP supporter radar on here, me thinks!
Yes badges go like hotcakes. Folk can’t get enough of them.
ewen
We’ll do it for both our Dads.
Ian Brotherhood
Would,if I wasn’t 100 miles away[as the crow flies].Everyone here is a YES,so not much point campaigning.They all know the arguments.
Clancheif
This is the way we will do things, in the words of the much missed Jimmy Reid
“there will be no hooliganism, there will be no vandalism, there will be no bevvying because the world is watching us, and it is our responsibility to conduct ourselves with responsibility, and with dignity, and with maturity.”
You can get Yes badges from the Yes scotland site for 28p each (or 25p for 100). Carry a few in your pocket and hand them out to people. That is the way to get them out there. Once anybody engages, that is the time to give them one, and pin it on.
http://shop.yesscotland.net/yes-scotland-badges
Change your routers wifi id to Yes, it does get noticed and the signal can spread far.
Ian Brotherhood
The mispelling of despair as ‘despare’ was intentional.Kids North of Perth seem to think Scotland starts at Clyde/Forth miogling.
They are amazed when they find out how much their country covers.
Mibees the adults would be the same?
Sorry
‘miogling’ should be ‘mingling’.
I was wondering how long it would take for the BritnatBC to come up with this:
Sturgeon defends Red Road demolition http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-26980882
Reading tha ‘article’ it seems to me that what she actually was implying is that the organisers should listen to public opinion. But once again, why let the truth get in tge way etc…….
Erchie
That Jimmy Reid quote should be the first paragraph of the Scottish Constitution (apart maybe for the no bevvying bit :))
@goldenayr –
Sorry friend, I got the wires crossed, thought you were near Saltcoats.
In any event, we’ll surely see Saltires and Yes banners popping up in the strangest of places.
With Yes shops opening, in Largs & Irvine, Ayrshire seems to be doing alright – a High St presence will make a huge difference in normalising Yes imagery and get right in the face of BT naysayers who assume these places to be strongholds.
(P.S. for Fairliered – did you get any joy looking for SSP posters? Not sure if I can help, but please let me know either way.)
Goldenayr. yeah, do it for all our dads.
Your nick brings back memories of kyboshing the Prestwick tories when I was a teenage activist there back in Younger’s tenure.
What you say is definitely the best advice Stu – there’s no point on arguing or trying to persuade people who simply refuse to listen or who have closed their minds to reason!
When I attended the Yes Ambassador training we were told not to waste our time trying to persuade people who were solid No’s but rather to target people who were undecided and who were open to persuasion.
People who are open and interested will usually listen to reason and actually really want to find reasons to vote Yes!
Have to say I totally agree about the visibility of Yes. I always wear something, badge, beanie or both.
The beanies are great, people smile more often than not. The odd conversations strike up. But we do need much more visibility!!
That is the whole reason behind the ‘10,000 Flags’ project. Normalizing Yes by it being everywhere, we know the mood is receptive.
We have to allow people to feel confident in being Yes.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/10-000-flags-for-yes–11/x/2353157
Yes Kirkcaldy gives away badges like confetti at a wedding so if you’ve got an active Yes group like them, they did the Tommy Sheridan video, you can give them money if you can’t do anything else. They’ve just agreed to buy another 1000 badges as the Links Market rolls into town next week and that brings people from all over Fife and beyond into Kirkcaldy for the 6 days its here.
Has anyone seen ‘disposable’ thin plastic Saltires or Yes flags like the ones you get in the Pound shops, but much much bigger?
It would be easy enough to get these things out there, but not much sense in using quality gear as they’ll (probably) be removed pronto. The cost is important – if a very large Yes flag appears in a prominent place, but it takes effort for some BT worthy to go and take it down only to find another one there two days later, they’ll quickly tire, and folk will get used to seeing that flag at that spot.
We could get them out there, all over the place, visible from public transport, and the more inaccessible the better – without having to risk life and limb, it could become an interesting competition.
Naughtie newsnight Scotland: a short propaganda piece obviously trying to cover for the shambles of Lord Robertson’s diatribe in Washington.
Naughtie is a total spineless slug! A true ("Quizmaster" - Ed) and proud of it.
@Bruce Wallace says:
Change your routers wifi id to Yes, it does get noticed and the signal can spread far.
This is a good idea (if you know how to change the name of your home WiFi network).
I have a mobile broadband ‘MiFi’ transmitter that I always carry round with me.
When I switch it on, it sets up a localised WiFi network called “YES-Scotland-2014-Join”.
Other people see it on their phones, tablets, and laptops, and I have had a few good conversations as a result:
e.g. “Is that you?” … “YES” … and then an Indyref discussion kicks off.
ewen
Glad to give you the memories but you have to learn your Scots better.
Ian
Nae bother,if I can assist?
OT,is Cochrane oor mole?
Talking of voices of British nationalism, here is Alistair Carmichael’s speech to the Law Society of Scotland – disjointed, wooden, confused, plaintive, belligerent – really poor value for someone on £200,000 a year. At least one member of the audience is confirmed to have moved straight from NO to YES on hearing it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/scottish-independence-referendum-law-society-of-scotland-speech
Just ordered 100 badges to hand out to anybody that wants one. Tartan Tory got one from me a month or so ago following a chat about independence sparked by my hat/badge combo when I bumped into him in a bird hide of all places – though as this place is called WingsOverScotland, I suppose that isn’t all that unusual.
Calcagus
Tell you what,do your wifi thing in Drymen,for arguments sake,and I’ll get hacked off you didn’t reply.Let me take you closer,Bonhill,still no.How about Clydebank?Fine if you go near Drum-shappel,otherwise..pishy.
I’ll be doing the Yes! thing on Sat at the conference here:
http://tinyurl.com/ol4xovk
Probably be wearing my daft X_Sticks hat and a Yes badge 😀
There’s a strong case for the wide transmission of this pish and it is this:
Everybody who’s drinker absolutely fucking hates, detests, despises, the next day historians that take great delight in telling you ‘what you did last night’. Motivations aside, it is certainly not cricket by any definition. No one likes their social, political, emotional or bahavioural deficiencies recounted after the fact.
When No voters see that stuff above, it’s a mirror reflected, and the image is of unbridled and naked British Nationalism, warts and all. You’re only likely to buy into that pish if you have a bowler hat, white gloves and a sash in your top drawer. It is so saturated in hate and bigotry, that to most No voters, whom I believe to be of the utmost standing if a little mislead, would find it utterly repellent.
Ian Brotherhood.
Seen them but if you can find 2x2ft approx posters there’s saltires there that fit nicely in most windows.
X_Sticks
Showaff Git.
I dreamt of a palace like that.
@Bruce Wallace –
Cheers, but I’m thinking more of very large ‘flags’: the huge plastic sheets you can buy to cover the carpet and furniture when you’re painting the living-room – that type of thing. It’s a complete pain in the arse trying to make something that size – definite gap in the market there.
@Croompenstein.
Those thieving warmongery types you speak of are Normans, not Saxons. Get it right or next time I’m going to shout at you. 😉
Anyway another job lot of Yes stickers and stuff purchased. Guess I’d better make use of it!
Anybody know what day the First Minister’s key note speech at the SNP conference is on? What channel if any is covering the proceedings?
A really wonderful article.
With the amazing positivity of the arguments for YES in front of us and at our back, there’s no reason for us to be mentally or emotionally absorbed by the negativity of the NO campaign.
I had a great couple of hours canvassing in Saltcoats this evening. Most people were at home and the majority I spoke to started off as self-proclaimed NO voters who were absolutely against the idea of Independence: 1 on the scale of 1-10. After a chat on the doorstep, all but one of these people discovered they were actually Don’t Knows who were very possibly leaning towards YES! All we need to do is get the information out there.
There’s a YES-decal and a Wings Over Scotland sticker on my car, a YES poster in my upstairs window, a YES badge on every jacket and jersey I possess – and one on my backpack for when I’m out walking and people behind me can’t see the badge on my front. I also have a YES t-shirt which I wear when playing badminton, mainly because it helps me win. 😉
I have to say thank you to the man – Alex? – who gave out the batches of Aye Right ‘business cards’ at the Wings gathering last Friday. Those little beauties are effortless to pass on and move the debate forward like nothing else can. I couldn’t possibly hand out leaflets at work but those wee cards were snapped up by everyone present in the office as soon as I proffered them during our last bout of Indy-talk: “and can I have another one for my mum?” They’re not for putting through letterboxes or even for leaving lying around in a public place but in face-to-face discussions they are the perfect follow-through. Their size makes them seem innocuous and yet they have the potential to connect people directly to the heart of the debate.
And I keep seeing more YES stickers in cars as I drive around North Ayrshire. It’s happening.
Ian Brotherhood.
Improvise brother 🙂 get a dustsheet, some masking tape and blue paint. Happy days.
Aidan
Weil done son.
Aw griest tae y’re mill.
I should really stop posting with alchohol in me.
“griest”.Fine if you know it means ‘grease’ add a ‘t’ and we have probs.
For all you unanitiates should be ‘gries’ as in the germsanic,grease.
Rev
Purely out of curiosity,and prejudice on my families part,could the next poll ask “How far do you live from a ‘Known’ chain?
Just read my last post’
For anyone that cares,I was talking supermarket chain.
Day one of SNP conference in Aberdeen and GMS have one anchor in Pacific Quay and the other in Inverness… makes perfect sense!
If you are attacked by such a person(s) I suggest the following:
“Do you believe in democracy”?
Do you trust the people of Scotland to make the right choice? Then
“Please go away.”
If they persist, as it says on the shampoo bottle instructions.
Last year our school was inspected and on my way home for lunch I chatted for a couple of minutes with one of the inspectors.
After they had gone my head teacher told me she had to inform me from the inspector, that I had to remove my Yes badge as it was “political”. I refused on the grounds that it was “constitutional” not political and that I would check with the Council Education Convenor, who laughed and said there was no problem with it!
Just to be sure I spoke to Mike Russell himself and was told to carry on wearing the badge!
The inspector is coming back for the return visit in May and I will be wearing my ” Bu Choir” badge ( Gaelic version) A few of the staff have asked that I procure some more of these as they want to be in ” Heather’s choir” !! ( An in joke as I take the school choir!)
A poster has commented that ”even many Yes supports are embarrassed to admit they are pro independence” (or words to that effect).
That is the psychological warfare which has been waged for almost 60 years now. The trick is to demonize, ridicule and paint the target group (however large) as a weird minority. In this way the target group actually isolates itself by being too embarrassed to admit to being a part of the target group. It also creates the situation where others who are not a part of the target group feel nervous of being seen to be associated with the target group.
Don’t play the role that BT has written for you. Normalize the situation. There are many out there who need reassurance that they are not alone in their thoughts or ambitions for their country.
Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me!
The undecided lady was quite a surprise. (We exchanged names but my memory is appalling and I forget hers.) She was well-travelled and had lived in a number of interesting foreign countries, and is now coming up for her 80th birthday. She has a daughter in business of some sort.
She was pretty clued up, having understood that Scotland subsidises England and that Iceland sorted itself out very effectively. But still she was tut-tutting and shaking her head. She complained that speakers kept referring to “them” and it shouldn’t be so divisive, but hang on, what else do you call Better Together and the Westminster government?
Her main concern was lack of vision within the Yes campaign. She was looking for a more overarching concerted and co-ordinated vision that she could get behind. She also wanted to know how the Yes campaign was going to allow everyone in the country to speak and contribute, because this had to be about us rather than people talking at us. And we should be doing it now, not just waiting until after a Yes vote.
I was a bit stunned because she’d just sat there and listened to Robin McAlpine and Colin Fox among others. I thought their vision came across very well. My best shot was to point out that the choice in September isn’t between what the Yes campaign are offering and utopia, it’s between taking responsibility for ourselves and food banks, ATOS, the bedroom tax and protected bankers’ bonuses. Which is pretty much what Robin McAlpine had said to be honest.
She picked up some leaflets at the table, and I gave her an “Aye Right” card and pointed her at Business for Scotland for starters because she was talking about her daughter’s business.
I can’t honestly see how anyone like that could possibly vote No in September, but people are strange I suppose.
For as long as I have been campaigning,-many years now. West Lothian council have allowed election posters to be attached to lamp standards in the period immediately before an election. Now I hear that the council (Labour) are starting the process of revoking that permission. I wonder why?
The same council have refused permission to let us use an old black and white photograph from their archives on the grounds that it was going in a Yes publication, and that was against the law.
And of course we aren’t able to use any council-owned premises for public meetings.
So, our visibility is being closed down wherever it can be. All the more reason why it’s up to us as individuals to use stickers and badges and flags whenever we can.
Brilliant Ad on the buses. Get the flags out guys, show the undecideds what it’s all about. The time has come.Respect to everyone who contributes, your efforts will be remembered.
Disagree with your advice, Stu. We should engage with all BT supporters on public forums like Facebook, especially when we know that it’s likely that undecides are reading too. In a Facebook argument you’re not trying to persuade the person you’re arguing with but the silent on-lookers. We know from public meetings that our arguments trump theirs’ in the eyes of Scottish voters and I believe that a calm, well-researched response to a unionist bampot on Facebook is likely to do the same.
Whenever i see a UKIP mouthpiece, i automatically think of Monty Python… e.g. What have the Scots/Europeans ever done for us 🙂
X-Sticks wrote, “at the end of the day I don’t give a toss what they do down there. It’s what we do up here that is more important.” If someone from ‘down there’ wrote, “I don’t give a toss what they do up there. It’s what we do down here that is more important”, you would – I hope – disapprove.
The English are not the enemy. The Union is not the enemy. The BBC is not the enemy. Capitalism is the enemy. We need to unite to defeat the enemy.
In the second video, shouty BritNat Kev from Edinburgh with his cries of “the Innglush!” reminds me of the comedy show “Absolutely”, and it’s character McGlashan. Dear oh dear, we can laugh at McGlashan, but “we need to talk about Kevin”. The following are two short clips from “Absolutely”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pT7O2q2SCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-SVKrvCxs
I think this guy is Scotland’s spokesman in Europe
OMG