stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


Up, down, and turned around

Posted on June 27, 2017 by

Just so we’re absolutely clear on what happened today:

There’s been a U-turn (The Sun):

Except that nothing has changed (the Scottish Lib Dems):

Let’s see if we can get a rhythm going.

There’s been a U-turn (the Telegraph):

Except that nothing has changed (Politics.co.uk):

There’s been a U-turn (Scottish Labour):

Except that nothing has changed (also Scottish Labour):

There’s been a U-turn (Scottish Tory columnist):

Except that nothing has changed (Scottish Tory leader):

There’s been a U-turn (Telegraph again):

Except that nothing has changed (the Spectator):

There’s been a U-turn (Guido Fawkes):

Except that nothing has changed (the Scottish Conservatives):

We could do this all night, to be honest, but you probably get the idea.

Print Friendly

    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 27 06 17 22:56

      Up, down, and turned around | speymouth

    2. 28 06 17 16:01

      (Still) on like Donkey Kong – Fear Is Worse Than Fighting

    144 to “Up, down, and turned around”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      Yip???

    2. Ian McCubbin says:

      Yip???

    3. John Moss says:

      Well, I guess Nicola isnae too popular right now as she’s doing what Teresa May cannae – giving strong stable leadership.

    4. Ian McCubbin says:

      Yip ???

    5. Betty Boop says:

      …in the windmills of their minds. Ho hum.

    6. Ian McCubbin says:

      Yip???

    7. Chick McGregor says:

      What happened to the unionist coordination so evident during the GE?

    8. Ipsi says:

      Simple really, she uturned on the timetable for indyref 2, will after Brexit, in which nothing has changed

    9. JGedd says:

      It appears that Nicola Sturgeon has confused Unionists and their press allies. Oh dear, and they were so certain before…… What line will they all take tomorrow?

    10. CmonIndy says:

      That last one from Conservatives just speaks FEAR FEAR FEAR. Oh god no! PLEASE don’t have Indyref2. I beg you.

    11. Walter Scott says:

      It won’t stop Fat Boab going on about it ’til the Holyrood election or more likely the next GE after hand wringing tories get the jitters with the DUP/UDA’s past connections & crimes becoming known.

    12. Nothing has changed. When Brexit Deal is known, and it will be a roaster, Scotland will decide.
      October 2018 is the date penned in for negotiaiotns to be completed, so we’ll know then. The six months between October and March 2019 is for both parties to present their Deal or No Deal to their individual Parliaments. Word has it ‘EU27’ are as one on their red lines, so it’s only a matter of whoever is in Government at WM at the time, and let’s face it that could be anybody, including a SNP Labour alliance, presenting the Final Deal Or No Deal to parliament.
      So in October, we begin Indyref 2.
      Nothing has changed, no U Turns, No shelves.
      Good os Kezia and Ruth to tweet while they are on their six week paid holidays mind.

    13. Zen Broon says:

      Laughed at Davidson’s tweet.
      Post-Truth Ruth clearly thinks she is is Scotland’s Trump.
      Except not quite as successful, obviously.
      Poor.

    14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Ian! Stop fucking yipping!

    15. Bob Mack says:

      I think we are also likely to see no agreement of Stormont power sharing which would mean direct Westminster rule and also mean no cash for the DUP. What then ?

    16. Thepnr says:

      Like many I was probably a bit down after the General Election as never foreseen such a result. Now! It’s back to business as usual as the Yoons give me so many laughs.

      “To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the ‘U-turn’, I have only one thing to say: ‘You turn [U-turn] if you want to. The lady’s not for turning.”

      Hahahaha

    17. Colin says:

      Timing, for such a important event as the Indy Ref, is in good hands.
      It’s a bit more than just picking the moment to step onto an escalator and needs greater precision than coitus interruptus, which I would associate with the timing of T Mays Gen Elec or akin to David Cameron walking the huff plank over his mea culpa.
      I was more impressed that Nicola Sturgeon seems to be in control of her senses, unlike her 2 main political countercats, or Dug, and the proverbial Flip Flop, spouting like 2 stupid wee lassies in a playground spat. But, maybe that is their view of Scottish Politics, and, why they are the minority?

    18. Mike says:

      Its simplicity itself.

      Scottish Government drops plans for second Indyref. SNP BAD.
      Scottish Government to go ahead with second Indyref SNP BAD.

      You just have to learn to speak Yoon.

    19. David Briggs says:

      John Moss says:
      27 June, 2017 at 9:17 pm
      Has Peter Bell bailed out of Scoop It Politics Scotland?

      I think he said he was packing it in? Getting tired of it.

    20. Glamaig says:

      Bob Mack says:
      27 June, 2017 at 9:26 pm
      ‘I think we are also likely to see no agreement of Stormont power sharing which would mean direct Westminster rule and also mean no cash for the DUP. What then ?’

      I believe NI still gets the cash but UK direct rule Ministers decide how to spend it. Heard it on BBC radio this evening can’t remember who said it though.

    21. yesindyref2 says:

      Heh he.

      Indeed, out of the mouths of babes and sucklings …

    22. heedtracker says:

      That’s really funny. Schrodinger’s yoons, the great paradox of tory yoon reign, red and blue.

    23. donald anderson says:

      She can never please the Onionists. So her own Indy critics should give us all peace.

    24. yesindyref2 says:

      Hehe heh again!

      “I shall sow confusion in the minds of mine enemies”.

      Sturgeon: “Oops! I did it again”.

    25. msean says:

      So,an indyref should still take place after brexit deal is known. Good.

    26. One_Scot says:

      Sorry for laughing Ian, but I can’t get that barking noise out my head now.

    27. yesindyref2 says:

      Yip!

      Sorry, sorry, it must be contagious, and I just can’t stop the tears of laughing.

      I’m going to need more towels.

    28. Glamaig says:

      Its a Schrodinger’s referendum! simultaneously shelved and still on the table, it has the Unionists so confused they’ve forgotten to coordinate with each other.

    29. Kenlike says:

      Man! I hate these Unionist bastards

      Over on the Guardian it’s all Peak Nat and Slab Back to the Future.

      Back to the good old days of Lord Shinwell of Sellout, socialist millionaire Jimmy Wray and tartan-decked kiddy-fiddler Nicky Fairbairn.

      Fuck all that

      And to any passing, drive-by yoon, I say: I just want to smash your shitey Unionist playhouse to pieces

      And, by the by, the A1’s that-a-way ||
      ||
      \/

    30. mogabee says:

      How confused are these so-called journalists?

      I’m laughing my head off here. 😀 😀 😀 😀

    31. Big Jock says:

      So the media and other Yoon leaders can’t even agree on what SNP bad story to spin. I look forward to my many Yoon work colleagues regurgitating this pish.

      Two kinds of people. Blind consumers of news and informed consumers. Unfortunately the majority of Scots just see the headline and never check the facts.

      That’s the state of the nation and I am sick of accommodating their ignorance.

      A 40 year at work shouting boring and walking past Sturgeon making the announcement. Reminded me of how I was at 10 years old when my dad had the news on. It’s immature and shows their lack of insight into anything of any real importance.

      A whole lot maybe 30% of Scots are just thick.

    32. Auld Rock says:

      Aw dear, think they must all be getting a potion from ‘Oor Wullie’. Colonel Blimp demonstrates all that is, was and always has been in the Imperial Guard, pomoted beyond their abilities. Remember the saying post WW1, “Brave intelligent men led by donkeys, (apologies to donkeys).

      Now that the Tory – DUP is out in the open I wonder what Colonel Blimp thinks of her Brit. Nat.loyalists now. I’d love to hear where her soon to be Irish partner thinks, I’d find it difficult to believe that she is a loyalist!!!

      Auld Rock

    33. Rock says:

      The SNP’s indyref policy might not have changed but the people’s perception of it has, and the unionist media will make sure it changes further, negatively for the SNP and independence .

      The SNP must seriously prepare the people for a referendum at short notice.

      The Tories will sabotage a second independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      They will use every means possible to do that, including black arts operations.

      They could have another snap general election, where the unionists will be emboldened to stand single candidates and there will be hardly any SNP MPs left.

      Or they will suddenly walk out of the Brexit negotiations without a deal, as Big Jock predicted a few days ago.

      Westminster will 100% deny permission to hold a referendum before the UK is completely out of the EU.

      Which will be too late for Scotland.

      Nicola must be in a position to call and hold a referendum at the moment it is needed.

      It is not going to be easy.

      Do not underestimate the British establishment.

    34. heedtracker says:

      You’re right there is tsunami of Schrodinger’s yoonery out there right the noo!

      Ruth Davidson Retweeted
      Channel 4 News?Verified account @Channel4News 5h5 hours ago
      More
      Scottish Conservative leader @RuthDavidsonMSP criticises Nicola Sturgeon for not ditching plans for a second independence referendum.

    35. Thepnr says:

      Wasn’t all bad was it? There will be another referendum I hope in my lifetime which to be honest I never expected after the result of the first. Thought I’d be long gone but hey circumstances have changed and not just Brexit. We now have absolute lunatics in control at Westminster.

      What a gift to the Scottish Independence movement, let’s use it, right now this lot are an absolute mess. Giving the DUP a £1 billion bribe just proves it, I hear a wee tune coming on.

      Things can only get…worse, for the Tories of course LOL

    36. heedtracker says:

      Me not a scientist, but if indyref2, not happening, happening, will, wont, could, can’t etc, is destroying the SNP, why are Schrodinger’s yoons like Colonel Rugh not just letting FM Sturgeon get on with it all?

      Ruth Davidson?Verified account @RuthDavidsonMSP 3h3 hours ago
      More
      Ruth Davidson Retweeted BBC Scotland News
      No reflection. No understanding. Nothing has changed. Poor.

    37. Effijy says:

      The was a report a couple of years back that suggested that the majority of easily scare mongered No voting pensioners would have expired and been replaced with new young voters by 2021.

      The closer we get Indy Ref 2 to that date the better.

      PS How do any of these Mickey Mouse Westminster parties get to make derogatory remarks about Scotland’s NHS when it is clearly a mile ahead of any other NHS Body in the UK????

    38. jimnarlene says:

      Is “yip” shorthand, for Yoons in (a)panic?

    39. Brian says:

      Let’s be honest, SNP line was we will wait until after the Brexit deal offers before we ask for a referendum.

      Then the PM decides to have a General Election that she said she wouldn’t have.

      Then the PM loses a lot of seats and bungs the DUP a Billion for votes which I always thought was illegal but nuance I suppose and the Brexit deal is all over the place because the Tories realised (late) how big a problem they had created.

      The fact is the SNP can’t do anything until the Tories sort out the shitstorm they created. Ruth Davidson can fuck of and Kezia Dugdale is a non entity. Willie Rennie is less than nothing a fucking negative.

    40. yesindyref2 says:

      Here;s one for our evening visitor:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWkurH-MEtA

      Seems appropriate, somehow.

    41. John says:

      If she had done this before the GE we likely would have saved some seats as this was the only campaign point for the unionists.

      No other option at the moment to put it on hold as quite simply we would lose Indyref2 heavily in a vote now.

    42. Big Jock says:

      Glamaig you are correct. The Dup are only given the funding if Stormont reconvenes and Foster is reinstated as leader.

      Sinn feign won’t allow her to become leader in Stormont due to the dispute over heating payments. Sinn Feign will also seek to block a Tory/Dup stitch up. This isn’t going to be a done deal. Direct rule from WM means the Dup don’t get the cash. WM spends it for them. So they might have to cancel that job lot of sashes.

    43. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The BBC is giving a completely disgraceful distortion to the FM’s statement. I have rarely heard anything quite so biased.

    44. Roland Smith says:

      Dear all, as another campaign swings into action alternative media outlets are essential to winning over No voters. This magazine is an excellent read but is In danger of folding. Handy thing to leave around coffee tables after you have read it.

      https://iscot.scot

    45. Az says:

      Hahaha that’s amazing to see it all lined up like that! It couldn’t be clearer how desperate the media are to say SNP bad.

      Hmmm but not so determined to say DUP bad, are they?

    46. Glamaig says:

      Add this to the list: Here is the BBC R4 news at 6 headline that had me shouting FFS at the radio:

      “Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon has shelved plans for a second independence referendum by the Spring of 2019 saying any decision would be delayed until after ‘Britain’ leaves the European Union. She said she had listened to voters after the SNP lost almost a third of its seats at Westminster. ”

      If I was an indy supporter who hadnt read or heard what Nicola actually said, I would been quite depressed. Which is perhaps the intention.

      What Nicola actually said: ‘We remain committed – strongly – to the principle of giving Scotland a choice at the end of this process….at the end of this period of negotiation with the EU – likely to be around next autumn – when the terms of Brexit will be clearer, we will come back to Parliament to set out our judgment on the way forward, including our view on the precise timescale of offering people a choice over the country’s future.’

    47. Scottish Steve says:

      Unionists accuse the SNP of being obsessed with independence and referendums. The only ones who are obsessed are the unionists. Sturgeon is getting on with the day job but the unionists focus on independence because they have no policies (well they do but Davidson doesn’t want to actually talk about Tory policies.)

      They didn’t even shut up after they won in 2014. In the media, it was constantly “oooh, look, see? This bad thing would have happened if we voted Yes. Ooh, this would have happened, that would have happened.”

      I imagine it will be the same if there is another No vote. Unionists will never shut up about independence because it’s a useful distraction from their awful policies and governance.

      Heard Davidson say on the news that the SNP “got a pumping at the election.” Strange world. Apparently winning most Scottish seats is a “pumping” now.

      I think Davidson and Dugdale have mental issues. Nationalists obsessed with independence? More like unionists with OCD about the Union.

    48. heedtracker says:

      Ruth Davidson Retweeted
      Glenn Campbell?Verified account @GlennBBC 8h8 hours ago
      More
      .@RuthDavidsonMSP calls on the first minister to take #indyref2 off the table for rest of this parliament which ends in 2021

      She has Glenn!
      She has nt Glenn!

    49. winifred McCartney says:

      The great cry of the onionists went up ‘no indy2’ and the reply from the indy supporters 35-13 – the third madate given for indy so the onionists are now terrified of indy2 cause they know they cannot win even with all their dark arts and ‘friends’ in high places.

      It is now just a matter of time and a ringside seat to watch the tories mess up brexit like they mess up everything else.

      Poor labour even with the worst election campaign ever by the tories and the least charismatic leader ever JC could not win and his enemies are circling too.

    50. stewartb says:

      The BBC editorial CHOICES made in framing tonight’s Ten O’clock News coverage of the FM’s statement could hardly have been more obviously, blatantly intended to misrepresent her speech. Breathtaking!!

    51. jfngw says:

      Davidson logic, it even confuses the May algorithm. If you are having any trouble understanding she is happy to repeat it, but louder.

      Tory lose majority at WM, still have mandate for policies rejected.

      SNP retains a majority of Scot MP’s, SNP got thumped in the election, no mandate.

      Is it a record? Scottish Tory voters sold down the river in under three weeks. Mundell tells Scots to gtf wanting same deal as NI.

    52. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, someone should put Evan Davies back in his den:

      “There be dragons”

    53. Meg merrilees says:

      One phrase that sticks out in my mind during the Q &A after the announcement this afternoon is Nicola saying very loudly:

      .. if so many MSP’s think that the Scottish people don’t want another independence referendum, then why are they so scared of having one?

      Exactly.

      I think it is called democracy.

    54. yesindyref2 says:

      “current polling indicates support for Independence at around 40%”

      Lying bastard

    55. Capella says:

      Nicola has taken Indyref2 off the table, had it expertly framed, and hung over the mantelpiece in Bute House where we can all admire it until the time is right to action it – in October 2018 or March 2019.

    56. HandandShrimp says:

      When set out like this it is easy to see just how fake so much of the so called journalism actually is.

    57. HandandShrimp says:

      I am not familiar with Iain Martin but I have seen a couple of tweets recently and they always seem a bit incoherent and childish. Who does he write for The Express? Sun?

    58. Gary45% says:

      Aye expect FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, from now until 10 pm on the day of the next Indy ref.
      Its all they have, the yoons have no facts or credibility left so another attempt to frighten the electorate is their be all and end all.
      As far as reporting in the quality??? Sun!!! goes, who gives a flying FCUK what they think, that goes with Muddle, Harrison and the rest of them, they have been found out.
      Why are WoS followers still paying the BBC licence? smash the matrix.

    59. Gary45% says:

      In our household and 500 other households I personally know, it is currently sitting at 100% support for Indy Ref 2.
      Aye Yoons I can do polls as well.

    60. Derick far Yell says:

      Wait. Martin Rooney can work Twitter?

      Must have been on a course

    61. Thepnr says:

      @Gary45%

      Just like you Gary of course not all WOS followers are still paying for the BBC license and I’m one. Only posting this because a couple of weeks ago I got an email from them asking if “my circumstances had changed”.

      First time I’d heard from them in nearly 3 years, emailed back and told them No, nothing has changed and I still don’t need a TV license. I then got a letter saying they would not be in touch again before July 2019. So that’s that for another 2 years at least.

    62. Fred says:

      @ Donald Anderson, not only can she not please the Onionists she cannae please the Onanists either kid!

    63. jfngw says:

      @HandandShrimp 10:45

      The Times, should have been obvious. The Thunderer, something that makes a lot of noise but with no obvious benefit to mankind.

    64. Marker Post says:

      If you read right to the end of Severin Carrol’s Guardian article, you find the following:

      “As Sturgeon spoke, the Scottish National party launched a new campaign website to again build support for a referendum, called mobilise.scot. She told MSPs her party and the broader independence movement now faced the challenge of building support for leaving the UK.”

      Kinda destroys the headline, doesn’t it?

    65. Capella says:

      BBC has now heard of Cambridge Analytica and psyops influencing elections, so has done an “in depth” study.
      Relax – it’s probably all a load of hype.
      Glad that’s all cleared up. 13 mins
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40423629/what-was-the-role-of-cambridge-analytica-and-psychographics-in-the-eu-referendum

    66. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Here on Wings, we generally think of wee Wullie Rennie as light comedy relief. Indeed, but for Murdo Fraser and James Kelly, Wullie would have a good chance of being Holyrood Village Idiot.

      However, unlike the great intellects of the Yoon media, Wullie got it immediately – nothing has changed.

      So, well done Wullie. As for you in the Yoon media – jings crivvens, help ma Boab!!!!

    67. Fireproofjim says:

      I noticed that Nicola made a very strong commitment to working with all Independence supporters, and pointing out that the SNP was not the only Yes supporting group.
      With that in mind I hope that the brilliant and enthusiastic Yes campaign will start to regroup, working towards a massive push starting about a year from now.
      We must have absolute clarity on currency deficit, and our position on the EU.
      By that time the Tories will be shown up for the charlatans that they are, and Brexit talks will be in even worse chaos. Theresa May will probably have been overthrown by her own side and the Spanish will veto any agreement which does not allow them unfettered access to British waters.
      (Just imagine the wrath of the Fraserburgh fish mafia when the Tories let them down again!)
      Day by day our chances improve.

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      I’ve got Evan on pause, frozen, just before he interviews Blackford, and he really does look like a spiv “You wanna buy some genuine Raybans, a Gucchi or a Rolex? 20 pounds, going cheap. You got 20 pounds? How about 10 pounds? Is that a fiver, that’ll do, you won’t regret it”.

      I’d like to say the BBC is going to the dogs, but they’d be refused entry.

    69. yesindyref2 says:

      @Fireproofjim “working towards a massive push starting about a year from now.

      I hope to see it start this summer, within a couple of weeks.

      Now IS the time.

    70. Geronimo says:

      Watched Nicola perform at Holyrood today…..Perfect delivery but what an absolute load of twaddle from the unionist parties….perhaps someone can (politely) advise them we are going to have a Referendum ….they wont like it but at the end of the day this is about choice and it being resolved democratically not by imposition by a right wing tory party

    71. jfngw says:

      For those who believe the initial indyref2 announcement was a miscalculation, remember this signalled to the EU Scottish resources were to be considered as not guaranteed during the negotiations. It was a message that needed to be sent.

      The current statement reiterates this point to the EU negotiators, Scotland’s resources are still not up for grabs.

    72. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry to be posting so much, I’m kind of revved up at the moment, now we’ve got the neccessary Sturgon announcement out of the way, not being sure what was going to happen. Now the actual Indy campaign can get back on track, in perhaps a gentle informative way. Hearts and minds, hearts and minds.

      I agree with an earlier comment, the magazine is good, professionally put together, glossy, general articles, and articles with a pro-indy flavour, but not in your face. Here’s where to buy it, and perhaps help to keep those stockists stocking it.

      But there’s gaps on that map, and asking for it in places that don’t stock it might encourage them to get it in – even if you don’t buy it then, someone will.

      https://iscot.scot/where-to-buy/

    73. jfngw says:

      @IndyRef2

      ‘Now is the time’

      I like it, we should be putting this slogan on the flags/badges, the front of the wee blue book. It sounds positive and enabling.

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @Betty Boop says: 27 June, 2017 at 9:14 pm:

      “…in the windmills of their minds. Ho hum.”

      You mean like this:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjJX22gg3FU

    75. Still Positive says:

      Can someone please clarify for me and my son: when did Nicola instruct her civil servants to draw up proposals for indy ref 2? Was it in June last year or March this year?

      We disagree somewhat but neither of us is sure.

    76. Big Phil says:

      Every single one of them that go against us should never forget that we wont forget, EVER. Time is OURS ,WE WILL BE INDEPENDENT,tractors beware we watched CARS.

    77. schrodingers cat says:

      Brian says:

      The fact is the SNP can’t do anything until the Tories sort out the shitstorm they created

      ———————

      correct.

      indeed, anytime the yoons start screaming about indyref2, merely point out that indyref2 is off the table (in the press in the lobby) the bbc said so…….now, about brexit and the single market…….

    78. louis.b.argyll says:

      For every little lie uncovered there is no slap on the wrist, no apology.

      For every little lie printed and broadcast, there is a pat on the back from a head of department. A nod, a wink.

      The UK media is the darling of the right-wing establishment. There is no doubt, only vast ignorance.

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      Love it!

      The National is all over this 🙂

    80. Artyhetty says:

      These yoons will carry on with the verbal runs because it’s all they have. Nothing positive for Scotland, just lies and distraction from the real disgusting mess of their masters in WM.

      Only just saw that our fabulously loyal to Scotland, the UKGovs Scottish sec, Mundell, announced yesterday, at 3pm on twitter, ‘the UKGov welcomes first delivery of oil from one of the largest new drilling operations in the north sea’.

      ONE of the largest, FIRST delivery, nice eh. Same day as DUP deal.

      It takes a while to find oil, and then put infrastructure in to extract it, a good while. Been known about for years, and Scotland has been utterly shafted once again.

    81. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Scottish Steve @ 22:16,

      This is the upside to my way of thinking too. It whips away the cover the Unionists were using during the UKGE, and leaves them exposed to the realities of their own policies, especially re Brexit.

      Kez: totally outflanked. Her “get on with the day job” just looks pathetically out of touch already.

      Wee Willie: gets it right, but his own party’s “ref but no ref” won’t stand the test of time. There’s only so much hypocritical wishful thinking you can sell to the public at large.

      Rude Gal: not at all happy. Despite all the early post-election posturing down in London, now surplus to requirements there and back again lamely following orders now that the DUP are safely on board (for now,anyway!). Lost her “no to indyref” monotone alibi and will now have to defend all the Brexit consequences, starting with the abject failure of her pal Mundell to honour even a day-old promise to see us right. There will be many more betrayals from the non-dynamic duo before Brexit is done, methinks.

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, definitely synchronised 🙂

      Catch ’em napping, stuffed full of themselves. Bye now.

    83. Liz g says:

      jfngw @ 11.33
      Absolutely agree that the Scottish government had to signal that Scotland’s resources weren’t certain to be included.
      And it had to be done while Europe was paying attention to us because of the way we voted.
      I would also go farther…..the offer for Scotland to stay in the EU and the UK, which I understand is also still on the table.
      That required various power’s to be devolved to Holyrood,the refusal to hand over enough powers to make staying in Europe possible also indirectly gets a late offer of DEVO MAX off the table too.

      They can’t very well offer last minute Devo Max to stop a yes vote in a referendum caused by the refusal of less power’s for a trade agreement!
      I thought it was a very clever move at the time.

      As was today’s announcement….
      Which I am reading as, Nicola’s just created the time and space for her and her government to be able to nip (I said nip no y.. rev) at Westminster’s heels all through the Brexit talks.
      They will get away with nothing now.

      She invited us (YES) to campaign so as to keep the pot boiling for Indy ref 2.
      And the best bit….she put the rest of Holyrood in a position of having to shut up about Independence and knuckle down to get the best deal for Scotland,still without definitely having Scotland’s resources,but ,a good deal has to be presented to us,as that would be their only chance to save the Union AT the Vote in 2019.

      And Nicola’s going to be too busy with the Brexit stuff to be chatting about the referendum she hasn’t called yet..
      This has confused them so much that are all saying different things.
      Oh my giddy aunt this is Hilarious..

    84. Smallaxe says:

      Now is not the time!

      Aye, ye were richt fir wance, Treeza.The time will be when Nicola says it’s time. An’ no’ afore then!

      It will be between now and then, or mibbies between then and now or before or after that or in between. You will just have to wait and see, Treeza, it’s very clear, frankly.

      Tick…

      Peace Always

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      Before GE17 was announced, Sturgeon had said she’d outline the steps for Indy Ref 2. Then in GE2017 she had to say she’d talk about it after the election. So she had to do that, and meanwhile the SNP politicians have been barraged about it, and had no real option but temporise, make half answers.

      Now she’s said her piece, and the SNP can just say to any media asking about Indy Ref 2 “now is not the time to talk about it”.

      Same doesn’t go though for Independence itself, which had to be largely off the agenda during the GE campaign.

      It’s freed everything up again, untangled the lot.

      Confusion to the “enemy”!

    86. Dr Jim says:

      Donations are already flooding in

      Flooding! as in lots and lots of lovely Moolah for the campaign

      That’s the difference between us and the Yoons we put our hands in our pockets, the Yoons take it from kids school dinners, nurses pay packets then give it to the DUP to have a bigger Orange band playing

      It’s no wonder the EU are holding out both hands to us once we ditch the dregs

    87. Scottish Steve says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      Sometimes I wonder what kind of person Davidson is. She willingly courts the Orange vote in Scotland, a section of society that pathologically despises anyone who isn’t them, including gay people. She is happy to accept the support of the DUP, a thoroughly nasty party with the same anti-social views, just so her party can stay in power.

      And then I remember that she’s a Tory. This is standard form for them. Power comes before principles every time. She is shameful. As for Dugdale and Rennie, they’re irrelevant. Just two of Davidson’s cronies that help her promote the SNP Bad message.

      I marvel at a side of the Scots national character so perfectly exemplified by these three stooges. I think to myself, is there any other people in the world who hate the very thought of ruling themselves and who actively work to keep their nation subservient to their larger neighbour?

      But it’s classic Empire mentality. Plus, repeatedly tell a country for over three hundred years that it’s shit and cant survive without its next door neighbour then of course some are going to believe it. Sad.

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      Might be a good time to rename an old favourite again.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_biscuit

      Any suggestions?

    89. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      It’s priceless, really. When the Rude One or any of her other little helpers start on about indyref2 again, we can just say: “now is not the time”! Heh, heh.

      And add for the Tory Saviour of Scotland in particular: “Now what exactly are Toom Tabard, you, and your little band of political dwarves doing in your day jobs of standing up for Scotland?”

      “Oh, and what are your pals down south in that strong and stable coalition of chaos doing to mitigate the looming wreckage of the Brexit they’ve so carelessly unleashed…?”

      Talk about hostages to fortune! We’re collecting ’em. And keeping them all ready to serve cold!

    90. Scottish Steve says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      Ha! When I heard that the Scottish Parliament might have had veto power over the UK’s Brexit legislation, I said to my family that when May comes begging to Scotland for its approval, Sturgeon ought to tell her: “now is not the time, Prime Minister.” 😉

    91. William Wallace says:

      As if we are gonna give up. They are scared and windmilling wildly.

      Message to the Yoons and the tories. You may never surrender and neither will we.

      Game on.

    92. majestic12 says:

      And the nastiest commentary, as usual? Scottish Labour. They really should hang their heads in shame. Stu, if you’ve got time on your hands research the Ditchley Foundation, another of these semi-secret groups behind the scenes whose illustrious membership contains the likes of George Robertson, Malcolm Rifkind and Jo Swinson, along with Cameron, Milliband and all the usual establishment suspects. Their 2014 letter to Scotland before the referendum is patronising and condescending enough to give any Scot the boak.

    93. Scottish Steve says:

      @William Wallace

      Well said. The dream shall never die. Independence is the norm and is Scotland’s destiny.

    94. Street Andrew says:

      The only clarity I expect to see on Brexit negotiations by Autumn 2018 is that they are clearly a shambles.

    95. Ken500 says:

      Delude the the Unionists into complacency. Then strike.

      It isn’t far off. Closer than ever. Much more of the Unionist mess. Game, set and
      Match. It will be won. Independence in the EU. Everyone in Scotland who believes in a fairer, more equal and prosperous society must get behind it.

      Vote SNP, SNP. Vote for Independence. The tide is turning. Do not be diverted in any way. Keep right on to the end of the road, keep right on to the end. Though the way be long just keep carrying on, Keep strong. Stronger for Scotland in the EU. The impossible dream is nearly here. Just like Andy at Wimbledon. World champian No 1. What an achievement.

      Nicola, Alex & Co will come through and achieve the impossible for Scotland. Stand up for Scotland in every way. Scotland has never been better run. The SNP Gov are doing a miraculous job for Scotland. The SNP Gov has done more for Scotland in five years than the Unionists did in fifty.

      Independence in the EU is just around the corner. Brexit and the Tories have achieved it. The Tories have broken the Union. Their Brexit has ruined the UK/world for good. Finally the farce comes to an end. The Unionists are despicable.

      Just keep on voting, supporting the SNP. Everyone rally to the cause. Do whatever you can. Get out and vote. Give support in any way. Do your bit. The dream is so schievable. Just do it. Go for it.

    96. Robbo says:

      Did Jon Snow say “f*** the Tories” at Glastonbury all over the news.
      Apparently this has upset them somewhat lmao

      They’d need ear defenders in my humble abode.

      Fuck the tories, fuck the tories. Now take it and swivel

    97. Fred says:

      Only good yin’s a deid yin Robbo, learned at the Primary School!

    98. Brian says:

      Of course Ruth Davidson doesn’t want the SNP to abandon indeyref2, to oppose the referendum is the only policy she has.

    99. Ghillie says:

      Thank you Nicola, thank you SNP = )

      And thank you Greens too and all Indy-minded folk.

      Thank you Rev.

      As if we would ever give up,indeed!

      Scotland’s Road to Independence is clearer day by day = )

    100. Fixitfox says:

      As I pointed out to Mr Riley-Smith on Twitter, a U-Turn is literally a change in direction of travel of 180 degrees. In metaphorical terms, with regard to policy or planning, this implies a complete reversal.
      Characterising Nicola Sturgeon’s statement as a U-Turn therefore is utter tosh. The push towards Independence remains the SNP Government’s central tenet. It will still happen. When it happens will still be driven by the outcome of Brexit negotiations.
      Leaving the EU, and the single market, will be a “material change in circumstances” as laid out in the SNP manifesto. Ben, baby, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

    101. heedtracker says:

      BBC r4 tory news Jim Naughty goes for SNP split, members wild for indy, Sturgeon very cautious. Too much BBC trouble to get anyone in Scotland other than Naughty to say anything. But Jim’s very excited at Colonel Ruth’s Cons completely different from London Con’s.

      Be tory Scottish completely different to the London tory, show Scottish tory working only for Scotland, is the way to go, says Naughty.

      Should be interesting watching Colonel Ruth being BBC rammed down our throats as Scotland’s saviour, from Scots.

      Play The long game, says Jim and vote tory Scotland. Its good for you.

    102. Naina Tal says:

      Bit ah’m no wired up tae vote Tory. Come tae think aboot it ah’m no exactly hard wired SNP naither. Tho Ah hiv jined. Ah’m short circuited tae independence SNP is the only wey it can come aboot. Gaun yersel Nicola Sturgeon!

    103. T.roz says:

      Our first minister has style, she has Scotland and it’s people in her uppermost thoughts. A truly trustworthy leader.

    104. heedtracker says:

      Man flogging product that virtually no one wants in Scotland, creeps around Scotland trying to damage Scottish democracy as much as he can. Graun really like Moray though, probably holiday cottage territoriality.

      http://archive.is/lMBjT

    105. Macart says:

      Heh. Checked out the usual suspects around our meeja this morning. Their confusion, anger and disappointment is near universal throughout.

      Mind you that’s what happens when you have two pre set headlines and narratives which then wind up being utterly useless. As evidenced ATL, some Tory titles out there are carrying both narratives at the same time, their commentariat and meeja are so confused. As for the parties themselves? Again, just as above, Labour (north and south) are singing from two entirely different hymn sheets and the Tories, who are well out of pocket at this point, are simply beelin’.

      All they’ve thrown at the Scottish Government and the YES movement and we’re still here. Two years, three ballots, millions of pounds worth of campaigning, media coverage, lobbying and leverage. 24/7 assault on all fronts for two years and they didn’t achieve their main aim… the breaking of the Scottish independence movement and the removal of a Scottish government willing to protect the rights of ALL its citizens.

      Very soon now, it’ll be our turn. The first call was sent out yesterday and the door is open at this link:

      http://www.mobilise.scot/

      Let’s get it done. The clock is ticking.

    106. louis.b.argyll says:

      Hey Guardian, how about an article about one of the winning majority seats.

      You know the 35 seats.. WON BY THE SNP – DESPITE ALMOST 100% MEDIA NEGATIVITY.

      Oh wait, that’s right, you are also a Unionist pamphlet..pretending to have a social conscience.

    107. Hamish100 says:

      So after the General election that never was to happen The Scottish Government will follow the majority decision of the Scots Parliament in agreeing to hold a referendum and once we know the brexit sellout over farming , fisheries , renewable energy etcetera.

      Fair enough. That’s clear

      Meanwhile the scotbrit Tories justify why Scotland shouldn’t get any monies like their Northern Ireland cousins. It’s a whole new form of representation of the people.

    108. Macart says:

      Worth pointing out in a ‘Well Duuhhhh’ sorta way. If you want to know if you’ve done something right? Look to the reaction of your opponent.

      If the establishment are deeply unhappy with the Scottish government, the SNP and the YES movement after yesterday (and its safe to say they are), then you know you’ve had a good day.

    109. Johnny says:

      Dave McEwan Hill:

      Hi Dave, you very kindly offered to give me some advice on how to get a Yes group running and keep it going.

      Have attempted to email you this morning, but it didn’t work for some reason.

      I took your emaill address (from the way it was laid out) to be dalinlongart [at] email [dot] com

      It strikes me that the most likely part to need correcting is the email provider from [email] to….?

      Will attempt to email again if you can confirm.

      Thanks Dave 🙂

    110. Ghillie says:

      Thanks for link Macart @ 8.04 am

      Have Mobilised = ) Feels good!!

      Macart @ 8.16 am

      A good day indeed = )

    111. pipinghot says:

      What happens when no Sec32 is ‘granted’ by WM?
      Do we still press ahead with ref with no onionist’s taking part?

    112. Robert Peffers says:

      This is the new Westminster propaganda theme song since making new friends in N.I.
      :-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXHYSgSdfek

    113. wull2 says:

      Its now time a quote from me “ nothing has changed and now is not the time “ The time is at the end of the EU negotiations, the only thing that has changed is the has now been reported thanks BBC,ITV and SKY, take note EU.
      Vote SNP first, after independence you can vote for whoever you like.

    114. Geejay says:

      It’s obviously 2 U-turns – or zero change.

    115. Macart says:

      @pipinghot

      An S30 would be nice, but isn’t necessarily required to get the job done. It merely ensures a smoother outcome and transition between the parties involved.

      So, yes. The Scottish government could hold an advisory referendum, just as UK gov. did with the EU ref. UK gov. set precedent in both instances S30 and advisory. Both, as we are aware, have become legally binding outcomes.

      In short, it’d be ill advised for unionists not to vote in an advisory or consultative referendum, in the hopes that would somehow invalidate any result. The result WILL be carried through either way.

    116. heedtracker says:

      “National” ukok newspapers slime around Scotland trying to undermine, diminish, destabilise, generally piddle all over Scotland’s democracy, but what are our imperial masters actually like?

      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uk-s-brexit-negotiators-only-starting-to-understand-eu-catherine-day-1.3134701

      “Britain’s political negotiators on Brexit are only understanding “very late in the day” how the European Union works, a senior adviser to European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has said.”

    117. Macart says:

      Oh this is getting embarrassing now! Even the Independent home page with same theme and two differing headlines. 🙄

    118. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Johnny at 8.21

      I’m away all day today. It is dalinlongart [at] gmail [dot] com

      The @ and . don’t seem to travel and I have no idea why.

    119. Liz g says:

      Pipinghot @ 8.34am
      Ofcourse we are….. it is one of those ye have tae be in it to win it type things.
      If they choose to stay home …fine by me.

      The section 30 order is just a leagal instrument to make the eventual negotiation free from legal challenge,it changes nothing about the vote or the result.
      Nice to have but no worth stopping the people having their say over!

      If the media have confused no voter’s about this to the point they attempted a boycott,why should that concern us?
      Mibbi it will teach them not to pay any mind to the media and to vote in an independent Scotland,and we will get an improved democracy,as well as our country back.

      Basically if they play games with their vote the risk is all theirs.

    120. heedtracker says:

      BBC r4 Tory Today news ends with this toryboy explaining its all over for Scotland now, or FM Sturgeon to be accurate.

      Toryboy Torrance was quite grumpy this morn. If you have the whole of the teamGB media battering away at Scots like us, it probably does get a bit annoying really.

      I think this is toryboy sarcasm but as all Scots media is tory BBC Scotland led SNP bad, god only knows what he means.

      Mhairi Hunter @MhairiHunter
      Now that Scotref is on hold maybe the Scottish media pack will start to cover brexit and ask a few questions.

      David Torrance? @davidtorrance 30m30 minutes ago
      More
      David Torrance Retweeted Mhairi Hunter

      Extraordinary, it’s almost as if two big statements from the FM on #indyref2 ended up distracting attention from #Brexit over the past yearDavid Torrance added,

    121. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      … but what are our imperial masters actually like?

      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uk-s-brexit-negotiators-only-starting-to-understand-eu-catherine-day-1.3134701

      Interesting article. The Brits are struggling at the negotiating table. Doesn’t surprise. From the top down, they haven’t a clue what the want. If all this discussion of, ‘should it be hard or soft’, being report is reflected by the government itself, then they really haven’t decided.

      On a personal level, half of the individuals at the negotiations probably never wanted Brexit and most of the rest don’t want it to be hard.

      My reaction immediately was, the whole process sounds like a time extension is inevitable.

      Perhaps Nicola believes the process may take 6-12months longer too. That would clarify her stance.

    122. Liz g says:

      Pipinghot @ 8.34
      Oh I forgot to add that …if I was a wicked wummin??

      I could even suggest that our owe hot head’s who hate the shit that Westminster pull against us, don’t get mad at the Westminster tactics,but just get even…and actually set up a boycott campaign for Unionists.

      Some might believe it,and others won’t know if they are being “loyal” by voting or “loyal” by not voting!!!
      This disinformation thing works both ways….and we were taught by master’s.
      The poor man’s version of vote no borders if ye like,we could have a song and everything. (Played on a flute, which would turn out to be a penny whistle cause nothing is ever as it seems)… (don’t know how to write evil laughter but if I did it would be here)

      But I am no a Wicked Wummin so ah Won’t say a thing about it.

    123. Thepnr says:

      I think a lot of people don’t understand the timetable for Brexit negotiations nor how they are intended to work.

      Basically if I understand the Terms of Reference correctly only public officials representing the EU and the UK can take part. In other words no elected politicians will be directly involved.

      The meetings will take place only every 4 weeks, with the current schedule being:

      ? Opening: 19th June
      ? Second round: w/c 17th July
      ? Third round: w/c 28th August
      ? Fourth round: w/c 18th September
      ? Fifth round: w/c 9th October

      In between these dates I presume that the negotiators report back to their political masters and hopefully come back to the table at the next round having made some progress in sorting out a deal on the issues discussed.

      Before any trade deal can even start there are 4 things that must be settled.

      The following initial negotiating groups have been established:
      ? Citizens’ rights;
      ? Financial Settlement;
      ? Other Separation issues.
      In addition, a dialogue on Ireland / Northern Ireland has been launched under the authority of the Coordinators.

      Can the Tories successfully deal with just this initial discussions and find agreement?

      I really don’t know but judging by the EU response to May’s proposal on citizens rights it looks like they have a job on their hand.

      Ireland/Northern Ireland relationship is a huge stumbling block especially with the DUP now sharing power with the Tories. The financial settlement is a political time bomb waiting to go off.

      I see nothing here that the Tories can take positives from and it’s difficult to see how progress can be made.

      Looks like a long haul and that can only be good for Independence.

      https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/eu-uk-art-50-terms-reference_agreed_amends_en.pdf

    124. Valerie says:

      @galam

      Yes, I was thinking that. The utter mess of Brexit, civil servants fleeing, lack of negotiators and the precarious nature of Tory majority, May be on Nicolas mind.

      I read it as – how can I say something, but say nothing really. Out on Twitter, lots are happy with her commitment to work with wider Indy movement.

      In other news, tomorrow is the deadline for Stormont to reach agreement, and they are no further forward from March, with SF asserting DUP have moved on nothing.

      I think DUP are hoping to hold SF to ransom, because the new money won’t be available to spend, unless Stormont sits to oversee it.

    125. COLIN ALEXANDER says:

      Off topic but relevant to life in Scotland and politics.

      Grenfell and Scotland. It’s something I mentioned in an earlier thread with relation to the ScotGovt’s FOI failures.

      Scottish multi-storey tower blocks had dangerous cladding too:

      http://archive.is/NKCZI

      As the story explains, since 2005 all NEW cladding or NEW tower blocks must be fitted with cladding / insulation etc that prevents the spread of fire, by being fire retardant, fire stops etc that meet stricter specifications than prior to then.

      These stricter specifications were put in place in response to the 1999 Irvine fire where one man died and the fire spread up the external cladding on the building.

      However, before we start all the – “Wha’s Like US? , Scotland’s superior” mince again:

      http://archive.is/3UwMC

      Napier University Halls of residence has Grenfell type cladding too. However, it does have other safety features that Grenfell did not.

      So, we can’t be smug and complacent.

      And anyway, cladding was just an example. My main point was that the Scottish Govt allows housing associations to be secretive about how OUR money is spent and allows housing associations to cover up failures of service because they are under NO OBLIGATION to supply answers to questions.

      My point being IF THEY HAD HAD dangerous cladding and insulation on their buildings they were under no obligation to tell you.

      Many tower blocks in Glasgow etc have only recently been knocked down. Many had cladding prior to the 2005 regulations. Who knows how many would have failed the current inspections, if they had not already been knocked down in just the last few years?

      There is also an important point to be made: The Scottish Govt made changes to the regulations as a result of the Irvine fire. Westminster did not.

      Even though MPs knew about this, it was on the BBC etc. It appears successive Labour and Tory Govts failed to tighten the regulations in England.

      In my opinion, these failures may have directly contributed to the deaths at Grenfell. Though, until a full investigation is completed, it would be wrong to pre-judge the matter. ( Whether, govt investigations can ever be trusted in England or Scotland is another matter).

      However, even limited devolution and the good use of these powers at the glorified regional council, may have saved lives in Scotland.

      It’s a good example of how important it is to get as many powers as possible for Holyrood – and use them wisely – whilst within the Union, until such time as Scotland chooses the best option: independence.

    126. HandandShrimp says:

      Iain Martin is a Times journalist? Haven’t read the Times in years but I confess I hadn’t realised the dumbing down of journalism had spread its slimy fingers into all organs.

      Hey Ho!

    127. heedtracker says:

      galamcennalath says:
      28 June, 2017 at 9:22 am
      heedtracker says:

      The Irish do seem to be really cheesed off with it all. It is going to make them worse off too.

      Everyone’s got an agenda. Who knows what’s going to happen strong and stably, under tory rule.

      We cant even be sure there will be a Mayhem led UK gov, or a new Corbyn gov, or what Corbyn’s Lab want from Brexit, or what the tories want from Brexit, or what the EU wants from Brexit, let alone what the economic impact will be on regular working stiffs. Christ knows what its like if you’ve moved here from the EU.

      One things for shit sure. Thanks to proud Scot buts, its all got absolutely nothing to do with any Scot at all, unless you live in England.

      We can just sit and watch, while beeb Scotland gimps tell us how shite Scotland is, how shite the SNP are, how evil FM Sturgeon is. And BBC UK as ever tells us how great England is, in or out of the EU.

      In summary, we’re all going to be much worse off in the UK, for decades to come, beeb gimp propaganda will brainwash us we’re not, and vote tory, worship a royal, or three.

    128. pipinghot says:

      Yes I understand that we can call a referendum at any time, but my understanding of sec 30 is to make it legally binding on both sides to respect the result.

      The loony press and BBC will just cry foul and carry out a smear job on any ref without sec 30, just as they have done with the Scottish gov ‘loosing the GE’

      Onionist’s will not take part and we win, but where then? WM will not shrug and go ok then, have your freedom.

    129. heedtracker says:

      Nicola Sturgeon Facebook
      18 mins ·
      Q. ‘How did you stand up for Scotland, Sec of State?’
      A. ‘I made sure that when the Tories sold Scotland out, we did it transparently’.

      Vid of Lord Vice Admiral Fluffie, trying to look all academic and heavy in front of a giant bookcase, full of books, unread. Wing Commander Fluffie looks rather, lets say shifty, for a tory.

    130. Glamaig says:

      Liz g says:
      28 June, 2017 at 9:36 am

      (don’t know how to write evil laughter but if I did it would be here)

      MWAHAHAHAHA!

    131. Thepnr says:

      Ms Sturgeon has, however, refused to hold another independence referendum in the next five years, leading to accusations of treating Scots with “outright contempt”.

      This is how the Express choose to report on the speech yesterday by Nicola Sturgeon. A blatant lie. Complaint about Accuracy already sent to IPSO.

      Might be pointless but so what, can’t allow ourselves to put up with this kind of bullshit reporting forever. Better to do something than doing nothing.

    132. jfngw says:

      @pipinghot 10:07

      Being legally binding makes no difference, the EU referendum is a case in point, a precedent you might like to call it. The government declared it needs to carry out the will of the people.

      Even if the unionist boycott, it is all down to the numbers voting yes. A large enough yes vote in this case would carry no matter what. Not sure what this number should be but anything over 43% of total electorate is a win using turnout of last referendum. Obviously over 50% would stop the media questioning the result.

    133. John Edgar says:

      Read in the Independent online the article by Rachael Revesz on why Nicola Sturgeon has not performed a u turn on Indyref2.
      It is very insightful.

    134. Robbo says:

      Quite funny jist now. I watching the Scottish parliament debate now with Michael Russell the minister for Scottish negotiations of Scotland’s place in Europe.

      Harvey putting lots of stuff across trying to get clarification on stuff on UK Gov talks .He’s in between that eegit James Kelly of labour and Murdo Fraser. Both look like wtf feck am I doing here,haven’t a scooby what their talking about-saying nowt.Totally out of their depth!

    135. Donald Bruce says:

      I follow with interest propaganda past and present. It was no accident that the press and Tory parties mantra has been since 2016 ” Scotland does not want a second referendum “. If you repeat it enough people start agreeing with you. Think it their idea. It worked.

    136. Liz g says:

      Pipinghot @ 10.07
      The optimum set up is that it’s a FREE & FAIR vote in a system where Holyrood have the legal right to hold a consultation with the people.
      If it’s a fair vote the only way to influence it is to take part.
      If it is a FREE vote not taking part, is part of that Freedom and doesn’t change the result.

      As for Westminster, don’t forget this is only a TREATY agreement we are in with them.
      We can at any time, tell the Westminster Parliament, Scotland has voted to no longer be bound by the terms and conditions of the 1707 Treaty of the Union.
      Our representatives are instructed by the majority of the people of Scotland to negotiate how this happens.

      It’s just like the situation in Europe…do you imagine that the EU would or could tell Westminster…you don’t have our permission to vote.
      And we won’t let you leave you signed this Treaty year’s ago and you must only work to strengthen the Strasbourg Parliament…

      I think that the confusion over Scotland’s position happens simply because of the terminology used…if Treaty was used instead of or at least as often as Union….the situation we are in would be a lot clearer.

      Again the EU was always portrayed as continental Europe something that was always optional to be a part of,and people understand that it’s a Treaty agreement.
      The situation between Scotland and England is the same.

      Westminster might like to give the impression that it’s different.
      Westminster does do that kind of thing… rember it trying to tell everyone the whole world is waiting for British trade deals?

      We have and have always had the ability to reject that Treaty as not something that the Scottish people want.

      Just as everyone who signed up to any kind of partnership can!
      You only get a problem if you try it with out a majority and Westminster claim the right to protect the majority.
      But no one on the YES side is seriously going to go down that road.

    137. mike d says:

      Lie number 1,Scotland does not want another independence referendum. Lie number 2, Polls put support for independence at 40%. Barefaced lying msm two faced b******s.

    138. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 28 June, 2017 at 10:14 am:

      “Vid of Lord Vice Admiral Fluffie, trying to look all academic and heavy in front of a giant bookcase, full of books, unread. Wing Commander Fluffie looks rather, lets say shifty, for a tory.”

      No, heedtracker, you have got both Fluffie Mundell’s service and rank wrong.

      He is in fact, “The very model of a Modern Major General”. See :-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs3dPaz9nAo

    139. gus1940 says:

      Ian Martin is one of the legion of ex-editors of The Scotsman and his reign if I remember correctly was during the disastrous Brillo regime.

    140. Chick McGregor says:

      Isn’t the ‘yips’ some kind of involuntary spasm that golfers sometimes get bouts of when trying to putt?

      Don’t play myself but seem to remember something like that from tv coverage.

    141. Chick McGregor says:

      The only U-turns evident here are those of the unionist spinners (U turns, geddit?)

      The are certainly going their Schrodinger.

      Spin up? Spin down? Decisions, decisions.

    142. geeo says:

      Ye put yer indyref in…yer indyref out,

      In out in out, ye shake it all about,

      Ye dae the indy shuffle and the yoons go nuts,

      Thats what its all about….

      Aaaaaaawwwww……the indy shuffle…

      Aaaaàaaawwwww…….the indy shuffle….

      Aaaaaaaaaawwwwww……the indy shuffle….

      Dugdale… Davidson…rennie, go mad…!!

    143. Shug says:

      I listened to Mr Beattie on BBC today trying to normalise the orange walk as a cultural exerciset

      The BBC is trying to support Mays alliance with these people

      THe BBC has given prime air time to the lodge inviting people to come along to, join ikon but totally ignored 25000 peaceful families walk through Glasgow supporting yes

      Total shame on the BBC and anyone involve Mr Beattieyou are beneath contempt

    144. Shug says:

      Stu
      If there is any money left we need another poll

      Should there be another ref when we see brexit agreement from up and if so how will you vote

      These two foxes need shot



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top