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Slight reprise

Posted on June 28, 2017 by

…on last night’s article.

Because the Daily Mail isn’t standing for any of this confusion. It’s absolutely 100% clear that what’s happened is that the First Minister has U-turned and abandoned the prospect of a second independence referendum.

And also that she’s absolutely refused to do exactly that.

Finally, an end to uncertainty.

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  1. 28 06 17 10:56

    Slight reprise | speymouth
    Ignored

85 to “Slight reprise”

  1. Doug Daniel
    Ignored
    says:

    But Stu, the Mail Online and the Daily Mail are two *totally* different things. Apparently.

  2. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I am wearing my imaginary tinfoil hat for the next 14 months , until indy ref 2 date given. The level of stupidity in my workplace means it’s my only solace.

    I fully expect the UK to get kicked out of the EU before the end of the year so it might mean I only where my hat for 6 months.

    One thing I am sure of is that when Nicola does come back to the chamber it will to be announce the date. I expect that is April 2019.

  3. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    A sight to behold isn’t it?

    They’ve got to be suffering whiplash from all that spin. 😀

  4. sydthesnake
    Ignored
    says:

    you can always rely on the Mail…..

    shower of tossers, which way to spin

    Syd

  5. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    You would be forgiven for thinking that the Mail was trying to manipulate two different audiences for their own political agenda.

    Really, if we don’t grab the next referendum with both hands and save our country, we really will regret it for a very long time.

  6. Jack Collatin
    Ignored
    says:

    By now the Yoons must realise that we are serious.
    The Union’s dead, as is the Northern Ireland Peace Process.
    I see streets are being blocked off in Glasgow this Saturday so that the Orangemen can parade through ‘the Queen’s Highways’ uninterrupted declaring their one and only true faith to each other.
    They must number in the thousands by now. A dying breed indeed.
    We shall be a Free Country in my lifetime, that’s for sure.

    Let’s hope it doesn’t rain on their parade, bless.
    What does it take to force us to give up?
    We shall never return to subjugation in any form.
    Independent Scotland is inevitable now.
    Our Dead Tree Scrolls, and the broadcasters, have thrown every lie, distortion, insult, and threat at us and we are still here.
    I wouldn’t use a sheet of our ‘papers to wipe a dog’s arse with.
    It is coming, ye Yoons. Start packing.

  7. Simone
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh boy, the English DM readers are going to be in for a shock when we hold a referendum.

    “But you said…..”

  8. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    “The voices made me do it (Ed)”

  9. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    They have an arse and elbow problem.

  10. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    The end result of this is one of two things. Leaving the EU without a deal or May resigning and another election. Which one will Tories choose.(See below) Remember every one of the 27 countries can block the deal…

    https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/22/breaking-ireland-will-block-brexit-deal-if-maydup-deal-goes-ahead/

  11. Doug
    Ignored
    says:

    I had a think about all this and perhaps I’ve got it wrong but the SNP could be seen as playing an absolute blinder while looking like they have made a bit of a mess.

    By announcing Indyref2 for 2018 or 2019 back in March (was it only march so much has happened)… This put the pressure on May and Co down in Westminster. Slim majority and what not. So May decides to have an election (after Article 50 is triggered of course like a bomb disposal expert asking for a raise after they start working on defusing a huge bomb that didn’t need touched) to try secure a massive majority and kill off the Scottish Indy movement before they get momentum.

    The 56 SNP MPs have little real power down in Westminster anyway.

    Cue May massively mis-stepping (when will the conservative PMs realise they can’t rely on the nation?). This flushes out the Scottish Unionist support so we know their tactics etc. They turn up in surprising numbers etc but not enough to actually win. Meanwhile the Torys sell out to the DUP and not to their own Scottish MPs – making sure everyone knows that Westminster will do anything to stay in power thus further poisoning the well for the Tories “Vote Ruth get DUP”.

    So we end up with May weakened, the threat of the Tories messing up Brexit, the obvious link that Ruth’s mates from scotland have zero influence down south.

    The SNP have lost Alex Salmond and Angus Robinson which is a disgrace really – but not the end of the world. Both are now available to take on other roles. SNP still won the FTP system, still have Holyrood, haven’t needed to do anything other that push back the Scotref until it was going to happen anyway… The SNP now have a proper villain to point to – “Vote Ruth get DUP” “Vote Ruth and you get May or Johnstone etc” and have a reason to get everyone fired up to stop the Tories and Brexit impacting the economy.

    Am I wrong here that the SNP have lost at bit of face but not actual power – while the Tories and Westminster have lost power and face and have put themselves in the crosshairs for Indy Movement now supported by more EU nationals (assuming they get to vote)?

    And Nicola has given up absolutely nothing in real power terms by forcing May’s hand?

  12. Street Andrew
    Ignored
    says:

    How is a democracy supposed to operate with this level of disinformation in circulation?

    Rhetorical question. Democracy isn’t intended to work.

  13. Free Scotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Dissing the Daily Mail is made extremely easy … by the people who produce it. What a despicable rag!!!

  14. Phil devitt
    Ignored
    says:

    I was going to say “you couldn’t make it up” but obviously the MAIL did.

  15. Peter McCulloch
    Ignored
    says:

    I wonder how many people actually understand or even care about how much they are being manipulated by the ‘British Media’.

    The damage the Tories have inflicted on people and our public services in Scotland, doesn’t appear to concern those who voted in 13 Tory MPs in Scotland.

    What will it take before these people come to their sense?

  16. Brian
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m just waiting for Ruth the Mouth to demand that the SNP name a date for the referendum so she can then demand that there shouldn’t be one.

  17. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Gross. A pack of UK greatest liars and perverts. And yet they’re not quite as creepy as The Guardian, as that shower of prog lib hypocrite’s piss all over Scottish democracy.

  18. Street Andrew
    Ignored
    says:

    Doug.

    “The 56 SNP MPs have little real power down in Westminster anyway.” Erm ..they didn’t have, but neither did the pre-election Labour Party so-called opposition, but they would have swung it now .

    I don’t quite see that SNP have actually lost any face. MSM is trying its best to say so, but it’s bollocks really.

    The George Smiley type assessment of the cunning doublethink game that you outline makes my head spin. I favour the Tory cock-up theory. Both sides of the border.

  19. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    Can’t we just call the MSM The Twilight Zone now?

    I don’t think they’ve disgraced themselves as much since Nick Robinson’s Big Alex Salmond Lie.

    You do hope more and more people see through this desperate drivel.

  20. Marie Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    ” you spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record baby”.

    I don’t think that they know which way is up anymore. If they want to believe that the ref is scrapped, and we’ve all gone away, that’s okay. But boy are they in for big surprise.

    Good on oor Nicola, she’s got them so as they don’t know which way to turn. Good lass.

    But just remember in the eyes of the yoon SNP BAD.

  21. COLIN ALEXANDER
    Ignored
    says:

    So, we now know for certain – if there was any doubt – that’s there’s no gonnae be any indyref for some considerable time. Years at least, if at all.

    So, what now? Sit, wait and moan that the Daily Mail, MSM and some Unionists tell fibs?

    Nicola Sturgeon herself said, we must build consensus, and fight for Scotland’s interests.

    The question is: How do we do that?

    I’ve put forward suggestions that meet the principles and goals Nicola Sturgeon says we need to achieve.

    Are my suggestions the best strategy / method of achieving those goals? Is the SNP’s current strategy / method the best one or can we come up with something better?

    What exactly is the SNP strategy? Ask the UK Govt for things that are then refused, such as a seat at Brexit, the Single Market proposal for Scotland? All refused.

    That is attempts at asserting sovereignty within the Union, isn’t it? And so far, they have come to nought.

    How’s that? The UK Govt assert they have the political mandate for Brexit on the basis of the UK-wide referendum, whose parameters, question etc, were all decided by the UK Govt. So, it’s they who decided it would be decided on a UK-wide basis. So, they are able to factually say: it was a UK vote, that Scotland voted Remain is of no consequence.

    So, how do we move forward?

    I’ve repeatedly suggested a referendum on Scottish sovereignty within the Union. If won, it would give the Scottish Parliament / ScotGovt the clear political mandate over the Scexit part of Brexit and on all matters affecting Scotland.

    As, I’ve said, if the UK Govt refuse that mandate, that failure is a positive thing too, as it proves Westminster’s anti-Scottish democracy within the Union. It proves a political mandate counts for nothing in the Union- if that mandate is a Scottish political mandate.

    If my ideas are so bad, I’ve yet to read anything better. Is spending the next few years agreeing among ourselves that the Daily Mail talks mince the best use of our time in promoting Scottish interests and Scottish democracy within the Union or as an independent country?

  22. Weechid
    Ignored
    says:

    So Indyref is scrapped? Does that mean the bloody yoons will stop going on about it?

  23. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Colonel Blimp and her Sectarian party are in their bunker today inventing new slogans to show the sectarianists that Nicola Sturgeons SNP is showing contempt for the sectarianists, but how to say it? She’ll probably go with divisive again a tried and tested slogan

    A new report out yesterday is showing foreign school kids in growing numbers in Scotland are phoning child help lines because of bullying by other pupils and some are even self harming with the stress
    This is not restricted to colour these are white foreign kids as well

    I hope big fingers are pointed at Davidson and her Ukipper Sectarian party for this
    Apparently Aberdeen and Glasgow have been dealing with most of these calls

    There were no numbers produced by the BBC report so that usually means they can’t pin it on the SNP and have to make it look like nobodies fault

  24. sensibledave
    Ignored
    says:

    Doug 11.01

    I pretty much agreed with most of your comment other than the para’ “Am I wrong here that the SNP have lost at bit of face but not actual power – while the Tories and Westminster have lost power and face and have put themselves in the crosshairs for Indy Movement now supported by more EU nationals (assuming they get to vote)?

    .. Ms Sturgeon has lost face – and “power” to a degree. Her opponents no longer have fears as to where the Scottish electorate stand with respect to Independence. The “60% vote for Unionist parties” in the GE is the reason why.

    Whilst I understand that some argue here that Ms Sturgeon hasn’t changed her stance on indyref2 – elsewhere, everyone reads her position as a U turn brought about by being weakened in the GE. The “threat” posed by an indyref2 being held at an inopportune time has gone – totally. Indyref2 will only happen after Brexit.

    In that respect therefore, the SNP’s “power” to exert influence in the Brexit process is diluted to zero, she wont, of course, be involved in the negotiations and now, is in no position to demand otherwise. As we also saw in Holyrood, the attitude of the Opposition also seems to have changed remarkably and Ms Sturgeon, despite her protestations, is “defending” now rather than “attacking”.

    As discussed on a previous thread, both Ms May and Ms Sturgeon have had a stinker of a 3 months are both much weaker and more vulnerable than back then – and its no good the Toriy party or the SNP pretending otherwise.

  25. Geronimo
    Ignored
    says:

    Re Big Jocks contribution @ 1057am today…..very interesting makes perfect sense moreso than the “offering” by Daily Mail

  26. sideshowmanny
    Ignored
    says:

    So, they’re upset that the Scottish Government won’t give into demands to abandon plans for a referendum but if they did, then it’d be a humiliation…
    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t…

  27. David
    Ignored
    says:

    Who cares about them, its what happens in scotland that matters, i have allways wondered why newsagents stock anything with the mail headline on it, as i have never seen anyone in scotland buy one, for years i have wondered about this, the Daily Express was the same, nobody bought one, people must be buying them or while would they stock them, i have a theory about this, maybe they are subsidised from their english operation, hoping that so many will sell and be left lying around in order to pollute the minds of the uninformed amongst us, or maybe people are buying them because they are cheaper than toilet rolls, life has many mysteries, i don’t think we will ever get to the bottom of this one heh heh heh

  28. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    I thought maybe it was that there are two writers and each might have a different “take” on the matter. So I looked up Tim Sculthorpe’s bio but there’s nothing much there.

    The best thing is this link to a funny tweet by James Felton, to summarise the UK right now:

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/874319829825728512

    Says it all really.

  29. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    There have been so many occasions when a single Fake News story about Scotland/Scottish Government/SNP/SNP politicians has been so widespread and consistent a sensible person has to conclude it’s being driven by collusion and conspiracy.

    Perhaps such events could be explained by plagiarism, insufficient investment in real journalism, or just incompetence. However, they occur with such frequency, conspiracy theories seem to explain them better.

    However, this story has broken the mold completely!

    For once the news has fragmented into two totally contradictory stories.

    In one corner we have the default approach. In typical form they spin a load of negative rubbish about backing down, u turning, giving in.

    And, in the other corner we have something surprisingly close to the truth! Nothing significant has changed.

    There is a commonality. Both are presented as SNPBad. Bad for allegedly caving in. Bad for daring to not cave in.

    Here’s the twist though. The essence of propaganda is you repeat consistently the same misinformation over and over again. When they push two conflicting lines, they expose themselves to readers showing that one or both story is a lie!

    They lie! And for some people that in itself is news!

    Once readers realise they lie, that cannot be undone.

  30. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    “As, I’ve said, if the UK Govt refuse that mandate, that failure is a positive thing too, as it proves Westminster’s anti-Scottish democracy within the Union. It proves a political mandate counts for nothing in the Union- if that mandate is a Scottish political mandate”

    Who ever you are, will you please give us some reason in reality, who exactly is going to be even remotely arsed with another referendum, “asserting sovereignty within the Union” you bizzarre chap, let alone even organising one, and then expecting people to actually go outside and vote for whatever it means?

    Ofcourse “Westminster’s anti-Scottish democracy within the Union.” All of you lot are anti Scots democracy, from sensibledave sneaky creepy trolling, via yours, to the whole of the teamGB BBC led media creep show. Look at the Heil pervs up at the top of this WoS story.

    What you hope to achieve on here with your asserting sovereignty nonsense is clearly trolling but its a bit opaque trolling to say the least.

    Just do what tory gits like sensibledave do, enjoy your tory triumphs in Scotland, what ever they are, and try to build on them too.

    Is this ghastly union saved or not, forever?

    Look at sensibledave’s usual creepy stuff, comparing and contrast May and Sturgeon, its a like matching up a mouse and an elephant.

    Only in Scotland are we plagued by all kinds of tory gimps, all with their sneaky wee games.

    Come back Rock, a good honest to god troll, old school 😀

  31. scunner
    Ignored
    says:

    Yeah – why don’t they listen? 24 trumps 35 don’tcha know?

    As mad as their assertion the other day that Scotland gets a huge deficit “Bung” and SNP are hypocrites to complain about the DUP riches.

    I’m always reminded of 2014 when a colleague waved the Fail at me trying to illustrate one of his Better Together points. I took the piss out of him big style in front of others and still remind him occasionally.

    Maybe I’m who Colonel Gadaftie means when she refers to “Division”.

  32. COLIN ALEXANDER
    Ignored
    says:

    How do we improve Scotland to show how “our way” of doing things is better than the Westminster way when we have this basic problem?

    http://archive.is/yFwii

    “Minister slams Scottish public service watchdog”

    The SPSO was denounced as unfit for purpose in 2010. The SPSO refuted the criticism saying those criticisms related to events 18 months earlier.

    From experience, I would say it’s unfit for purpose now in 2017.

    For example, in a case I know of, the Ombudswoman in her findings about a Council complaint, said, she upheld the complaint that the Council failed to follow the specified procedure, but then added a personal opinion:

    “I have no doubt that this was done for the best of motives”.

    The SPSO assert they are an “evidence based” organisation.

    So, when asked for the evidence for the assertion of “no doubt”.

    The SPSO responded: “We were advised by the Council”. Evidence? Proof?

    “We were advised”.

    That’s the “quality” of the SPSO in 2017.

  33. JaMur
    Ignored
    says:

    Ah bless em.

  34. Bob p
    Ignored
    says:

    Big jock 10.35am. Glad I’m retired big jock . I’d hate to work with thick as pigshit/bigoted yoonyinists.

  35. Jay Evans
    Ignored
    says:

    Mwhahahaha – Oh My, no wonder the msm are being laughed at so much, the lies are getting worse and people are not falling for things so easily now.
    It’s the Daily Mail, only tories buy it, they may not read it, but they buy it to look “smart” 🙂

  36. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    I feel like buying a copy of the Daily Mail just for the pleasure of drowning it in a bog so in 3,000 years somebody will find it and drown it again in formaldehyde.

  37. Jack Murphy
    Ignored
    says:

    Re the Scottish Daily Mail—–a funny one.

    During my morning break yesterday,a woman was reading the SNP BAAAAD small print on it’s Front Page at top of the pile in my local large supermarket and placed it into her shopping trolley..
    She then pushed her trolley round to the other side of the papers stand where I had conveniently placed a copy of yesterday’s National on top of a second pile of Scottish Daily Mails.
    She stopped,peered,read the small print,and swiftly picked the National up and dropped it on top of her SNP BAAAAD Scottish Daily Mail in her trolley.
    An undecided voter,or a citizen seeking the truth?
    I don’t know what the checkout person made of her purchases! 🙂

  38. Gary45%
    Ignored
    says:

    mimble, gimble, bimble, nible gible !
    Makes as much sense as the Daily Heil.

  39. scunner
    Ignored
    says:

    I have fleeting thoughts of making up a batch of large stickers along the lines of “this paper is lying to you” and decorating the front pages of the Fail and the Express in the news racks.

    Would likely lead to a scuffle, subsequent arrest for vandalism and illustrate their suggestion that we’re the bams. So I just have to sit and take it like the rest of us.

  40. joannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @Jack Murphy – she was probably a hairdresser buying stuff to keep her clientele amused while they’re sitting under the dryer. Presumably she has nats and yoons coming in for their cut and colour so she has to keep them both happy.

  41. David Mills
    Ignored
    says:

    Again, The Mail a vital resource to the papimashy industry & ONLY the papimashy industry

  42. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    The Mail is the only propaganda organ that can spin simultaneously, both clockwise and anticlockwise, at the same time.

    Their financial backers claim that doing so prevents acute dizziness rather akin to Travel Sickness, motion sickness or Mal De Mer.

  43. Vestas
    Ignored
    says:

    Its just the Daily Heil trying to prove that the Heil Online version isn’t the same as the non-online (but still online) paper version 😀

    For those unaware, the Daily Heil tried to disown the odious & evil Katie Hopkins recently by saying she didn’t work for them, she worked for the Heil Online 🙂

  44. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    Ah, I get it. So Indy Ref 2 is and isn’t cancelled, it will and won’t happen before 2021, the SNP has and hasn’t abandoned Independence, they lost and won the General Election in Scotland, and they had a U-turn and carried straight on.

    Wayhay, I think I just passed my journalism exam with an A+!

  45. James Barr Gardner
    Ignored
    says:

    BOYCOTT is something all Yessers can do, even small steps,and every step to Independence counts. As for Glasgow city centre this Saturday why not a wee day out to somewhere else, Falkirk, East Kilbride, whatever. Stop buying newspapers till after Independence. Shop at ALDI and LIDL. Buy Scottish products. Don’t buy anything from producers or services that spew out anti-independence, there are alternatives out there and they’re usually cheaper. Hope over fear and Fairness over hatred.

  46. Ian McCubbin
    Ignored
    says:

    This is the time to sit back laugh and watch each Yoon newspaper tie itself in knots trying to outdo other ones on this issue.
    At least a few journalists say it as it is. By 2019 they all will be asking when is it to save Scotland, I hope.

  47. Blair Paterson
    Ignored
    says:

    Maybe I am alone in thinking that N.S. Has given in to the unionist parties she did not realise that the reason they are so venhament about not having a ref 2 is they know they will lose it all their lies and threats from last time are still fresh in the minds of the people the vow etc., and would not work this time ., but the longer she takes to hold one some people could forget their lies Patrick Harvie is correct in what he said about time dragging on and the momentum being lost its like jam tommorow it’s like Charlie turning back at Derby and not going on to London where he would have won maybe they will replace the Saltire at Hollyrood today with a white flag

  48. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @heedtracker says: 28 June, 2017 at 12:11 pm:

    ” … Come back Rock, a good honest to god troll, old school ?

    Nah! Heedtracker, a really good Troll must never be perceived as actually being a Troll. They can only really succeed while no one realises they are Trolling. Rock just isn’t much good as a Troll. Neither is sensibledave.

    They are both no more than irritants and, like other such itches, unless you are really directing your replies to the other commenters and just using the Trolls as an excuse to make a point, then the best treatment for those itches is NOT to scratch them.

  49. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    The most sensible thing Nicola Sturgeon could have done was take stock and wait until the time is right for a second referendum and that’s exactly what she has done and the reason for the bile and misinformation from the usual rags.

    After 310 years I don’t see a need to try and rush over the finish line, it’s the tortoise and the hare, better to stroll along and cross that finishing line only when you’r good and ready.

    The EU Brexit vote got many, me included all excited and ready for a second Independence referendum ASAP, unfortunately that doesn’t seem to have panned out how we believed it might have.

    For some that voted No leaving the EU was a step too far, unfortunately for some that voted Yes staying in the EU was also a step too far. That second lot will know nothing until the damage of leaving the EU becomes a reality.

    So let’s bide our time for now, will the Tories make a success of Brexit or will the roof come crashing in on their heads.

    Just have to wait and see won’t we. I’ve got plenty time, so enjoy the spectacle for now. Should be worth watching how things unfold in the coming months. All the aces are up our sleeves so let them go all in on a “good for Britain” Brexit deal and see how that turns out.

  50. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    The SNP got an overwhelming majority for the SNP in the UK GE, 35 MP’s returned to Westminster.

    Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP got an overwhelming majority at our Scottish elections last year.

    SNP vote share increased by 120,000 at local council elections in March this year, giving them the majority across Scotland.

    Your chosen party did not achieve a majority in the UK GE, their arrogant assumption that they would sweep the board fell flat on its face, they obtained more seats than the opposition not by fair, but quite likely by foul means. The electoral commission will once again have to investigate the lying cheating Tories. They couldn’t even achieve a majority by cheating the system either! Have since done a deal with the most bigoted, toxic party in NI to prop up your pathetic May, because not one of your chosen party’s dumbfucks hasn’t the balls to make her resign, not one the courage nor intelligence to deal with Brexit which is the only reason she’s still PM?

    https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-inside-the-secretive-tory-election-call-centre

    And you come out wi this utter pish:

    ‘…both Ms May and Ms Sturgeon have had a stinker of a 3 months are both much weaker and more vulnerable than back then…’

    Ah beg tae differ, talk about ‘spin’? Blatant misrepresentation of the facts, utter lies and fantasy.

    People in glass houses…..

  51. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    James Barr Gardner wrote on 28 June, 2017 at 1:11 pm
    “BOYCOTT is something all Yessers can do,”

    Correct, James, and it’s the only language the other side understands, hit them where it hurts – in the pocket. There has to be consequences for those who lie to and deceive the Scottish electorate. If enough people do it they’ll soon get the message.

    I just seen a cracking wee slogan on Twitter by a ‘Mr Malky’ (i think?) and it was about sectarian parades in Glasgow. It said something along the lines of; If they’re walkin’ i’m not shoppin’. That’s the message all level headed folk should be sending.

    This is the 21st Century and i’ve had enough of sectarian scum soiling our streets. GTF, you’ll not find the river Boyne flowing through Glasgow, or anywhere else in Scotland for that matter, ya bunch of inbred hate-mungers.
    __________
    Colin Alexander (12:14 pm) wrote regarding the SPSO:
    “From experience, I would say it’s unfit for purpose now in 2017.”

    And from my very recent experience with them i’d say you are 100% spot on! They are a toothless crocodile, set up to make people think they have some sort of support against the big boys. Like all other similar organisations that exist they are totally and utterly useless, and that’s a fact!

  52. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Blair Paterson says: 28 June, 2017 at 1:13 pm:

    ” … Maybe I am alone in thinking that N.S. Has given in to the unionist parties … “

    Of course you are not alone, Blair. There are a plethora of other Trolls out in force today on Wings.

    The exact situation that existed previously is still what Nicola Sturgeon has said all along. There will be a referendum when the results of the Brexit talks is known. The only change has been the Brexiteers are now realising what the rest of us knew all along.

    The Tory Brexiteers are only now beginning to realise that they are NOT going to get what they wanted. It is not rocket science or any thing like it. I knew from the start what is going to happen. We had the idiotic claims that, “Spain Would not allow Scotland to remain, or even become a new, EU member state and the idiots quoted José Manuel Barroso as their source of information.

    In the first place José Manuel Barroso was the then President of the European Commission and not the European Parliament. That means he was an employee, (Commissioned), of the EU. In fact the EU Civil Service and thus had no decision making powers. Secondly he was not even Spanish, (he is a Portuguese politician), so could not speak for Spain. Not to mention that the actual Spanish Government had stated they would not oppose Scotland.

    Then there was the fact that the EU is a consensus organisation and thus every member state has a veto over all EU legislation and The Republic of Ireland is an EU Member State with a veto.

    So this idiotic PM is scrabbling around for any backing she can latch onto to retain her majority and she chooses the DUP as her preferred partners. Can you see the Tories & DUP managing to swing an open border between the North & South of Ireland?

    The Republic won’t wear it and will veto May’s Brexit negotiations and the terms that Nicola Sturgeon had laid down were that there would be a referendum in Scotland after the Brexit terms were known – nothing has thus changed.

    You can spin as much as you like but no one but yourself and your kind is going to believe the lies. I very much doubt that even you believes the daft things you claim.

  53. sensibledave
    Ignored
    says:

    K1 1.39

    You wrote: “And you come out wi this utter pish:

    ‘…both Ms May and Ms Sturgeon have had a stinker of a 3 months are both much weaker and more vulnerable than back then…’

    Ah beg tae differ, talk about ‘spin’? Blatant misrepresentation of the facts, utter lies and fantasy.

    People in glass houses…..”

    Are you OK K1. It looks like you were frothing at the mouth when you wrote that.

    Just so I understand, are you are arguing that Ms May and Ms Sturgeon are both stronger and less vulnerable than they were 3 months ago? You know, the time when Ms Sturgeon was threatening to hold indyref2 in the Autumn of 2018 (because she thought she had increased support for Independence) and had 50 odd seats at Westminster and When Ms May thought she was on the cusp of a Tory landslide because Corbyn was unelectable?

    Both of them

  54. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    She ‘threatened’ no such thing. Your analysis and therefore conclusion is utterly flawed if your premise is a lie. It’s not complicated. Unless you refrain from reading the pish that told you ‘what to think’ and go direct to the actual written and televised account of what Nicola Stugeon ‘actually’ said. Everything that you ‘surmise’ will be treated as the verifiable obsfucating pish that it is.

  55. Jack Murphy
    Ignored
    says:

    Speaking of journalists——-

    The Telegraph last year:
    “BBC journalists are paid up to forty per cent more than their competitors in the commercial sector, according to a leaked review of salaries in the corporation’s news division.”

    Well—–it’s the BBC——sup up, smile, secure that some folk have enough to put food on the table for their bairns,and spare for the meter. 🙂

    Bless.

    The Telegraph:
    http://archive.is/NyRrE

  56. Auld Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi Jack Collatin, it’s bound to rain – it’s Greenock Fairr Saturday, LOL.

    Auld Rock

  57. sensibledave
    Ignored
    says:

    K!

    I do remember K! she said something along the lines of “if Ms May thinks I am bluffing…”

    The difference between you and I seems to be that when the facts change I take them on board – and you don’t, or can’t.

    Somebody close to Ms May convinced her that if he called a snap election she could pick up a bigger share of the vote, increase her majority and maybe even win by a landlide. Whoever that was got only one part of the scenario correct. She increased her share of the vote by over 5% – but no one had accurately worked out how the rest of the party’s votes would move – and we know the outcome. Now she, and her party’s position, is weakened for all of the reasons we know and I accept

    Ms Sturgeon was strutting around demanding indyref2, at a time of her choosing (Autumn 2018), she was putting a reasonable case forward that things had changed since indyref1 and the “people of Scotland” were demanding the right to indyref 2 off the back of the EU referendum result in Scotland.

    Then 60% of voters voted for Unionist parties in the GE. Now she has kicked indyref2 into the long grass because she does not want to be committed to holding a referendum that she knows she will probably lose – hence her “reset” (cough, U Turn) yesterday. That is the sum total of the situation

    Its good to take these things on board K1 and accept the new reality, or you end up looking like some nutter in the street shouting obscenities at passers by.

    Once you have done that, then you may be in a position to work out what to do next – until you do, you are going to be coming on here every day and working yourself up into a lather.

  58. Robbo
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding these papers. Don’t bye the dam things. I’ve never bought a Daily Ranger/Sunday Mason or any other Unionist rag for ages including ridiculous papers like the Teley,Financial Times/Express or Daily Mail.

    What to do is this:

    Buy a few Nationals per day.After you’ve finished reading them,stick them through your neighbours doors(even funnier if their a yoon lol, leave them in the pubs/clubs/bookies/coffee houses/dentist/doctors, bloody everywhere. People always look at something that’s free.. We need to get into the minds of the people and bypass this MSM and other paper rags.

    Bonus is the National gets massive surge in coffers,lets them spend more on our own version of propaganda and shuve it back to them lot in spades.

  59. Robbo
    Ignored
    says:

    sensibledave says:
    28 June, 2017 at 2:53 pm
    K!

    I do remember K! she said something along the lines of “if Ms May thinks I am bluffing…”

    Ms Sturgeon was strutting around demanding indyref2, at a time of her choosing (Autumn 2018), she was putting a reasonable case forward that things had changed since indyref1 and the “people of Scotland” were demanding the right to indyref 2 off the back of the EU referendum result in Scotland.

    Then 60% of voters voted for Unionist parties in the GE. Now she has kicked indyref2 into the long grass because she does not want to be committed to holding a referendum that she knows she will probably lose – hence her “reset” (cough, U Turn) yesterday. That is the sum total of the situation

    Not sure about that.I could be wrong-mibees aye mibees naw! An indy ref2 would have a totally different look about ,even now. The percentage of vote turn out would be different for a start+ some of the so called 60% you mention would vote YES, so I think yir talking MINCE.

    I’m sure some one will come along soon and rip that scenario of yours right oot the windae!

  60. Dan Huil
    Ignored
    says:

    Thank god for the EU. And Northern Ireland. Both assets in Scotland’s case for regaining its independence.

  61. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Exactly Robbo -60% voted for unionist parties , not for the union! We know that 25% of Labour voters also back independence. The election didn’t include 16-17 year olds who are 80% yes. It didn’t include EU citizens who are 90% yes. The turnout was 60 odd%, indy ref 1 was 90 odd percent.

    Once again this was a GE not a referendum and equating the nationalist vote with the Greens and SNP alone in a GE on a 60 odd % turnout is arithmetic illiteracy.

    This argument suits the Yoons because it creates a false impression of the independence support which we know is in the high 40’s.

    Dream on Dave!!!!!!!!!!

  62. Robert J. Sutherland
    Ignored
    says:

    Hello again insensible.

    You’ve evidently never been anywhere near our FM. She doesn’t “strut”, as you quite gratuitously and obnoxiously put it. She is a normal human being who cares about our well-being and consequently is genuinely respected and warmly received in public wherever she goes. Something that can’t be said about the English PM.

    I notice also that all that the volume of rhetoric which people like you were spouting about the Scots being the tail that can’t ever be allowed to wag the English dog has been turned down to zero these days, now that the NI bigots are wagging the dog.

    I don’t think you have the faintest idea just how much your arrogant English exceptionalism helps the cause of independence!

  63. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    you’ll not find the river Boyne flowing through Glasgow, or anywhere else in Scotland

    except up in banffshire, re boyndie and the river boyne near Portsoy

  64. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye, SC, you ken fine well whit Boyne am oan aboot.

  65. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    Stoker
    🙂

  66. Robert J. Sutherland
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh, well, by the laws of chance, one of them must be lying somewhere near the truth.

    Rather like a stopped clock, which is right a twice a day. But not exactly useful besides.

    Best to check it out for yourselves, then, good people:

    http://www.mobilise.scot

  67. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘she said something along the lines of’. (guessing)

    ‘Ms Sturgeon was strutting around demanding indyref2 (lifted from express, mail, telegraph, times?)

    ‘Now she has kicked indyref2 into the long grass’ (lifted from express, mail, telegraph, times?)

    All verifiable pish. Others have disavowed you of your other assertions, you’d do well tae actually read the statements from Nicola, then you’ll get a clearer idea of how contorted you’re own thinking processes have become.

    That little diatribe was straight out the telegraphexpressmailesque handbook of utter junk, of which you seem an avid disciple.

    Doesn’t matter how much you attempt to ‘undermine’ me, just shows yet again how you resort to insult, condescendion and patronisation in the face of anyone who challenges ‘your’, well I say ‘your’, when what I mean is ‘what you’ve swallowed whole and regurgitated without digestion from the ‘papers’ and the ‘telly’ has told ‘you’ about what is happening regarding the political situation in Scotland. Oh and if you decide to take offence and tell us all that you don’t read those rags and rely on others like the guardian or spectator or any number of publications and any named journalist in the mainstream, the charge still applies.

    Learn to think things through and behave like an adult in response and maybe some poor soul might take your views as somehow ‘relevant’ on this forum. Until such times as you refrain from making unfounded, unverified, made up pish that you heard or read elsewhere you will be treated with the utter derision that you invite and merit.

    🙂

  68. Fred
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Cat, in Scotch a Boyne (bine) is a washin tub!

  69. Fred
    Ignored
    says:

    Mebbes the most important thing in Nicola’s statement is a wee reminder to Donald Tusk et al, that when hammering out a Brexit deal with Tory con-men, remember that the Scottish People will be the final arbiters on the disposal of Scotland’s natural resources & assets!

  70. Liz g
    Ignored
    says:

    Schrodingers cat & Stoker @ 3.49
    Mibbi that’s where they should march then.
    Keep everyone happy…. assuming nabidy lived near it??

    Personally I am with the poster you mentioned Stoker.. who said “if they are walking, I’m no shopping” and will indeed be encouraging others.
    I don’t know what happens elsewhere but it’s the city centre they walk through in Glasgow, staying away must have an affect!
    Wouldn’t mind but it’s not just one day, I have been caught out many times when it’s not even July.
    I mean could they no just shut off a Lane on the M8 and they could get through the city that way rather than getting in the bloody way all the time.
    They can’t even hold a tune,for more than 50ft as far as I’ve ever heard.
    Does anyone know how to find out when they’re about?
    A list of dates and times?

  71. Dan Huil
    Ignored
    says:

    @Fred 4:31pm

    Good point.

  72. Blair Paterson
    Ignored
    says:

    To Robert Peffers I am not a troll I have been posting on here for just as long as you have I have several certificates from Gil Paterson for the hundreds of pounds I have donated to the SNP over the years also letters of thanks as well you seem to think no one else has a right to an opinion of their own while l am the first to admit your knowledge of Scottish history is first class you are not the font of all knowledge and I honestly think sometimes that maybe you are a troll you are always to quick to condem anyone who critises the SNP and rubbish their point of view you are old enough to know no one is right all the time and no one is wrong all the time live and let live

  73. Ken
    Ignored
    says:

    Talk about Strawman. They accuse Nicola of giving up on something only they said she was doing. (Like the children in the market place mentioned in the Bible who say “We play a jig and you do not dance we play a lament and you do not weep”)

    Stu why dont you do a list of the untrue statements and phrases the media repeat over and over to make it true. Beside them put the facts. They should be challenged every time.
    The Unionist media really send in the tropes.

  74. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @sensibledave says: 28 June, 2017 at 2:18 pm:

    “…both Ms May and Ms Sturgeon have had a stinker of a 3 months are both much weaker and more vulnerable than back then…”

    Sheesh! That’s even more pish than your usual offering sensibledave.

    There is absolutely no comparison between the de facto Parliament of England PM and the Scottish Parliament FM.

    Theresa May is a total failure at everything she has ever undertaken as a political figure and Nicola Sturgeon has succeeded in absolutely everything she has undertaken as a political leader.

    May failed in every position she held before and since becoming the English Prime Minister.

    Let’s just take the most recent events as example, shall we?

    May called a totally unnecessary general election and while ending as the largest party lost her former majority at Westminster. Nicola Sturgeon did not call that election but in terms of the Scottish contingent at the de facto Parliament of England she not only won the most seats in the de facto Parliament of England but retained her majority of Scottish Westminster seats and by quite a margin.

    The current representation of Scots MPs at the de facto Parliament of England is :-
    35 MPs from the Scottish National Party, 13 from the Conservative Party 7 MPs from the Labour Party and 4 from the Liberal Democrats.

    Now, as your arithmetic seems rather deficient, I’ll put that in numerical terms for you.

    13+7+4=24, and even looking at these as a united total of unionists, (in an election of individual parties), that shows the total number of unionists is less than the single SNP party’s 35 members. Yet you are claiming that the SNP lost the election of Scots at the de facto Parliament of England.

    Secondly nothing that Ms Sturgeon said in her statement has changed for the promise made in her manifesto was that there would be a referendum in Scotland when the information on the UKexit was known. Note I refer to UKexit for under on circumstance will any action of the Westminster Parliament take Britain out of the EU because all Britain is not in the EU.

    Just as there is no such thing as a PM of Britain and no army, navy or Air Force of Britain. It is all utter bullshit in the minds of you unionists. There is no actual parliament of Britain, and no actual elected as such parliament of England.

    Unionist propaganda knows no bounds.

  75. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    recent research tends to suggest that the boyne and bamba in ireland are named after their name sakes in scotland 🙂

  76. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “@heedtracker says: 28 June, 2017 at 12:11 pm:

    ” … Come back Rock, a good honest to god troll, old school ?

    Nah! Heedtracker, a really good Troll must never be perceived as actually being a Troll. They can only really succeed while no one realises they are Trolling. Rock just isn’t much good as a Troll. Neither is sensibledave.

    They are both no more than irritants and, like other such itches, unless you are really directing your replies to the other commenters and just using the Trolls as an excuse to make a point, then the best treatment for those itches is NOT to scratch them.”

    Pompous, clueless armchair pundits, as ignorant as the Mail.

    Admit it or not, the independence cause has suffered a major setback.

    The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.

  77. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Blair Paterson,

    “I honestly think sometimes that maybe you are a troll you are always to quick to condem anyone who critises the SNP and rubbish their point of view you are old enough to know no one is right all the time and no one is wrong all the time live and let live”

    Robert Peffers is an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.

    As for his “expert knowledge”, why hasn’t he written a book?

    His pedantry about ancient matters is completely useless in the struggle for independence.

  78. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    kendomac on indylive at the mo
    https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/iScotMagazine

  79. geeo
    Ignored
    says:

    Unionists keep demanding that indyref is OFF the table “until the 2021 Holyrood election”.

    WHY ?

    The same unionists DO NOT recognise the CURRENT mandate for a referendum won in 2016, so why on earth should we believe they will suddenly respect any mandate won by the SNP in 2021 ???

    Its a bit like holding a Jackpot ticket for the lottery, and throwing it away because next month the jackpot will be better…!!

  80. COLIN ALEXANDER
    Ignored
    says:

    @heedtracker

    Let me know if you ever come up with any positive suggestions.

    Otherwise, I’ll just skip you and Robert Peffers’ constantly moaning about trolls.

    Though that’s a wee bit unfair. Robert does come up with some interesting history stuff now and again.

    Cheers.

  81. Ghillie
    Ignored
    says:

    Galumphing Gishers on the loose again = )

  82. sensibledave
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert Peffers @ 5.31 … and others

    Why is it so hard for you to accept that which blatantly apparent to everyone!

    Firstly, just to correct one track you keep going down, and as a reminder to those with diminished memory, I really don’t mind whether Scotland is Independent or not. I do mind if MPs are elected that are intent on doing everything they can to simply wreck and disrupt the decisions made by my democratically elected government (of whatever flavour) and the referendum decisions of my fellow citizens of the UK.

    With respect to your hightened levels of pedantry, could you direct your ire at the use of the term “Brexit” to your Wings colleagues too. I am sure they will bow to your OCD on this point (not).

    Anyway, I am happy to accept that you believe that Ms Sturgeon is just as stronger position now as she was 3 months ago.
    You are totally wrong, but I accept that you don’t think so.

    I admire committed and determined people Robert, I am less impressed by people who demonstrate that they have lost touch with reality.

  83. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    do mind if MPs are elected that are intent on doing everything they can to simply wreck and disrupt the decisions made by my democratically elected government (of whatever flavour) …

    Those MPs are also democratically elected – spot the contradiction in your own posting?

    … and the referendum decisions of my fellow citizens of the UK.

    Yup. Scotland in the EU referendum – Remain 62%, Leave 38%.

    So we Remain, yes, Democratic Dave?

  84. sensibledave
    Ignored
    says:

    yesindyref2 7.12

    You wrote “Those MPs are also democratically elected – spot the contradiction in your own posting?”

    As you well know (from many of the comments here on wings) there is a difference between an objective to make the UK the best it can be – and doing everything one can to wreck the UK so that you hope more people will want SCottish Independence. Yes they are democratically elected- and they can also be, democratically speaking, ignored, by those that disagree with them – voting against them.

    You wrote “Yup. Scotland in the EU referendum – Remain 62%, Leave 38%.”

    Again, as you well know, the EU referendum was a UK REFERENDUM not a “regional” one (otherwise vast swathes of London and the south east of England comprising millions more people than in the whole of SCotland). Th result of the referendum was the result of the whole of the UK voting.

    With respect to the UK, the only people of a home nation that have expressed a majority decision, in a referendum, to be part of the UK – are the Scots! So I would argue that of all the home nations, the SCots have demonstrated their desire to be part of the UK more than any other. I know it is not what you want to hear but it is undeniably true.

    So yes yesindyref, it doesn’t come anymore democratic than that.

    Unlike some others on here, I know you to be a sensible person, so, on your position on this issue, I will assume is an aberration.

  85. sensibledave
    Ignored
    says:

    geeo 7:46 pm

    You wrote “The same unionists DO NOT recognise the CURRENT mandate for a referendum won in 2016, so why on earth should we believe they will suddenly respect any mandate won by the SNP in 2021 ???

    …. to correct you geeo, the only party that is less confident they have a “mandate” based upon the outcome of the 2016 vote seems to be the SNP. The other parties never saw the result of the vote in Holyrood as “mandate” from the “people” on Brexit. Now it appears that Ms Sturgeon also believes she doesnt have a mandate, which is why she has kicked the indyref2 vote into the long grass. She has moved/delayed/postponed her promised date for indyref2. Maybe you are like Mr Peffers and you see no difference now – to the position she held previously? Maybe her use of the word “reset” didn’t mean “reset” and she actually meant everything is actually the same? I would have thought that a leader that wanted to transmit a message that they maintaining exactly the same policy as held previously would say “we are maintaining exactly the same policy as held previously” – or am I just being picky?



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