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Trouble with numbers and words

Posted on October 24, 2014 by

From the Twitter account of the Aberdeen Conservative and Unionist Association last night, during the First Minister’s appearance on Question Time from Liverpool:


Just a couple of things.

It seems fairly reasonable to say that at worst, Alex Salmond “speaks for” either Yes supporters and/or SNP voters. (As the FM one could easily contend that he officially DOES speak for all of Scotland, but let’s be kind to the Tories.)

In either case, that’s about 45% of the Scottish electorate. Given that anything above 49% is in fact a majority, 45% is in fact one of the biggest minorities it’s arithmetically possible to have, not a “small” one.

It’s also somewhat curious to call a vote where you cleared the finish line by just 5% an “overwhelming” victory. A victory it is, but we suspect that, say, a rugby team that lost a high-scoring match 55-45 (perhaps to a last-gasp converted try, having been within three points with a minute to go) wouldn’t feel like they’d been thrashed.

But more to the point, we can’t help but wonder if the Aberdeen Conservatives are making an approved policy statement for their party when they say “Scotland did not vote for more powers”. Because we’re sure we remember David Cameron’s signature being appended to a document that promised:

“All three main parties will deliver change for Scotland. We are agreed that:

The Scottish Parliament is permanent and extensive new powers for the Parliament will be delivered by the process and to the timetable agreed and announced by our three parties, starting on 19th September.

People want to see change. A No vote will deliver faster, safer and better change than separation.”

12 hours later Aberdeen Tories have neither deleted nor retracted their tweet. We’re off to ask Ruth Davidson if her line in the sand has magically come back.

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    102 to “Trouble with numbers and words”

    1. RMAC says:

      perhaps their statistician is the one that has been helping Iain Wood with his oil reserve forecasts

    2. gillie says:

      Lying Tory bastards or truthful Tory bastards?

      I think we are agreed the Tories are bastards.

    3. handclapping says:

      Now if King Cnut had known about lines in the sand he wouldn’t have got his feet wet.

      Tick, tock, Tories, tick tock.

    4. Dcanmore says:

      “The people of Scotland want to know that all three main parties will deliver change for Scotland.’

      Yeah unfortunately going backwards is change too.

      “The Scottish Parliament is permanent and extensive new powers for the Parliament will be delivered …” That’ll be the air rifles act then. It’s a game of let’s pretend where Scotland is given an empty cardboard box then being told to be imaginative with it.

      No doubt Aberdeen Tories are celebrating the discovery of yet another new oil field…

      only 120 years of the stuff left in the North Sea, why bother?

    5. bookie from hell says:

      just watched question time bbc i player

      tory spokesman seemed to be making vow policy on the hoof


      Salmond was calm factual ,outstanding

    6. gillie says:

      Is the Scottish parliament a permanent institution??????????

      It would be under independence or a federal solution, but under devolution it is not.

      What Westminster grudgingly gives it can also take away within a blink of an eye. The Scottish parliament can be abolished by either the House of Commons or the House of Lords, and there is bugger all Scots can do about it.

    7. HandandShrimp says:

      I think we can safely assume that there are still some Unionist Neanderthals that fervently hope the line in the sand still exists. It is questionable if they even represent the Tories these days never mind Scotland.

    8. Jimbo says:

      Tory wishful thinking doesn’t make it real.

      The Unionists have stamped on Scottish aspirations for long enough. Let’s hope they’re wiped off the Scotland’s political map next year.

    9. Marian says:

      The unionists are clearly very rattled at the refusal of the YES voters to go away after the IndyRef so have resorted to one of their favourite tricks of telling Scot’s to “move on as there’s nothing to see here.”

    10. HandandShrimp says:


      That was on my wish list to Smith. I pointed out that Brown had included that on his further devolution to do list too.

    11. Macart says:

      Scotland did indeed vote for the promise of more powers and the Daily Record, the BBC uncle Tom Cobley and all made sure that everyone read and heard about it.

      So either Aberdeen’s Tories have had their collective heads stuck in the sand for the past two months or they are dead set on their Lords and masters reneging on their campaign pledges.

      Which suits me fine right enough.

      Indyref2 next week everyone? 🙂

    12. Stoker says:

      Those tweets came from the very same people who worked alongside
      BNP activists during their ‘No’ campaign – Aberdeen Tories.
      Just ask Dame Margaret Anne Begg MP, eh, Maggie.

    13. Capella says:

      The real minority in Scotland is the Tories. Opinion polls currently put SNP voting intentions at around 49%.
      O/T Derek Bateman post on the John McLaren Think Tank shows that this problem with numbers is pretty endemic. What has happened to our education system?

    14. yesindyref2 says:

      Dave will be so disappointed with the Aberdeen Tories. Didn’t they get his memo about EVEL?

    15. Macca73 says:

      The thing is that Alex Salmond WAS and still is speaking on behalf of the Scottish people as the Rev quite rightly points out. He’s still the ONLY democratically elected leader and the poor attempts last night shown here by Aberdeen Tories (who are a shoo in for a seat no doubt.. Yeah okay right) and the part that Labour Shadow energy secretary tried last night with the “The people of Scotland voted no, Get over it” is exactly the tone I expect from them. They don’t see this coming and they are playing a game of politics that simply isn’t working anymore.

      It’s why Alex Salmond’s response to her last night was “And that’s going to be your argument is it?” is exactly right. There will be those who will do the usual and vote for Labour because they don’t want the tories in and believe the hype of the BBC etc. but I’m willing to bet that there’s going to be a heck of a lot more since that 45% that are unsettled by the promises and lies they have been sold.

    16. heedtracker says:

      “It’s also quite curious to call a vote where you cleared the finish line by just 5% an “overwhelming” victory. A victory it is, but we suspect a rugby team that lost a high-scoring match 55-45 (perhaps to a last-gasp converted try, having been within three points with a minute to go) wouldn’t feel like they’d been thrashed.”

      But it’s that last-gasp try or THE VOW, that must be tested in a second referendum. If UKOK unionists are right, they’ll win easily win their overwhelming victory again. Otherwise, 18th Sept 2014 was just another giant teamGB fraud.

    17. joe kane says:

      I love it when the Scottish Tories take it upon themselves to characterise and talk on behalf of Scots and Scotland.

      Not too long ago failed Westminster MP candidate and list MSP Ruth Davidson, who came in a distant fourth in her constituency contest at the last Scottish Parliamentary election, contrived to claim that nearly nine out of every ten Scottish households were full of scroungers.

      Recently she claimed she spoke for Scotland’s silent majority who are all screaming tory right-wingers like her apparantly.

      Given she knows so much about them, I hope Ruth can clear up the confusion about what exactly her scrounging, parasitic silent majority voted for at the referendum.

      References –
      Nine out of ten Scots ‘are a burden on the state’ (and that’s the suggestion of Scotland’s Tory leader)

      Ruth Davidson: Scottish Tories ‘champions of silent majority’

    18. Donald Gillies says:

      Ah, so the Aberdeen Tories would contend that Cameron does not speak for the United Kingdom if one follows the same analogy they are extending towards our First Minister?
      One would assume as the democratically elected leader of the Scottish Government, he should be accorded the same authority as Cameron is in Westminster. But of course, this is the superior Tories we are referring to, they measure all things from a different perspective!

    19. gerry parker says:


      “But it’s that last-gasp try or THE VOW, that must be tested in a second referendum.”

      Had any luck tracking down a copy of it?

      In my company, I have a secretary who keeps track of important documents, so that if I want to examine the detail of it at any time in the future, I just ask them to get me a copy of it.

      Seems like we should be able to get a copy of the original quite easily then, all we need to do is find out in the political parties office who is responsible for keeping important documents safe, then ask them to scan it and send it as a .pdf

      I can’t understand why my requests have not been met yet, but will keep trying.
      Let me know if you manage to get a copy(and not just a copy of the daily record front page).


    20. ronnie anderson says:

      Alex Salmond. Question Time last night. Will HE, Wont HE,whatever Alex decides rest assured he will be a SPEAR in the side of the British Government & Scottish Opposition Parties. Free of the constraints of the Office of First Minister makes him a dangerious MSP.Go to it Alex GRRRRRRR.

    21. Geoff Huijer says:

      Yeah, I saw that pathetic tweet last night
      as Alex Salmond was pwning Question Time.

    22. tartanfever says:

      It’s an important point to get over to no voters.

      A No vote was not a vote for ‘No change’ as every unionist party was offering further devolution of varying degrees.

      I’d advise them to stop bleating on about the SNP, if they truly want ‘No change’ then their anger should be directed towards whichever flavour of unionism they prefer – the Tories, Labour or the Lib Dems.

      I hope the Smith Commission correctly ignores and throws in the bin any ‘No change’ submissions from unionists as this stance was never part of the referendum process.

    23. scotspine says:

      What kind of mean spirited, cowardly, wincers would posture against the strengthening and advancement of their own country?

      Aberdeen Tories.

    24. Karmanaut says:

      Sorry, this is O/T, but I wanted to make people aware in a main comment thread aware of something I noticed when looking into income tax devolution that nobody seems to be talking about.

      If we do get income tax devolved, then it is imperative that the associated reduction in the block grant is not merely Scotland’s population share of total UK income tax.

      Because wages are so much lower in Scotland than in the south of England, it would represent a huge loss for Scotland over and above the cost of replicating HMRC.

      Higher salaries in London and the South mean more income tax per person will be gathered in these areas than in Scotland.

      Devolved income tax on its own might be even more of a poisoned chalice than has been previosuly noted. (Or maybe this has already been pointed out, and I haven’t noticed. My apologies if that’s the case.)

      By my (very rough, back-of-the-envelope type calculations) a Scottish population share of UK income tax equates to £13bn, which would be cut from the block grant. But because wages are lower here, we’d only be able to raise £12.2bn (assuming we keep the same levels of income tax), meaning a loss of £0.8bn over and above the other associated costs.

      Take these figures with a big pinch of salt, because I can’t say for sure how much tax comes from each part of the UK. Only what the average wage is in that area, and the population in that area. And then you have to directly correlate wages with income tax. But while it’s rough, it’s enough to demonstrate that the principle of “higher income tax gathered in higher salaried areas” needs to be considered when cutting the block grant.

      We’d need devo-max to be better off. Or at least some of the taxes which are proportionally higher per head in Scotland than they are in the rUK, in order to balance this.

      Westminster can’t keep the takes which are higher per head in Scotland than in the UK and then leave us with the ones which are lower per head. It has to balance. The *only* fair way is FFA.

    25. ronnie anderson says:

      Ruth Davidsons line in the sand, is that on Portabella shore line,would she know hiv tae draw that line twice a day,anybody hiv Ruthie’s travel expences.

    26. liz says:

      Posted on previous thread Faisal Islam tweeting about ‘extraordinary emails between Tories and Lab Grandees on vow.

    27. robertknight says:

      Aberdeen Branch of the Flat Earth Society very much alive and kicking then…

    28. Stoker says:

      When Wee Eck announced he was to stand down my first reaction
      was something along the lines of, well, lets just say i think
      i went through every expletive known.

      Then as soon as i got over the initial anger and started to
      calm down and try and think positively, my first thought was
      along the lines of hoping that he (Wee Eck) would put his focus
      into standing for, winning and holding Aberdeen for many years
      to come.

      It’s a key place to take and he’s just the man to do it.

      Can you imagine the fear among the LibLabCons of Aberdeen.

    29. AuldA says:

      Conclusion: the Aberdeen Tories do not know how to compute a total.

      Strange. I thought that Aberdeen was Total’s city…

    30. piggy says:

      WHY?…..Why would anyone associate themselves with ABERDEEN CONSERVATIVE AND UNIONIST ASSOCIATION?

      They demonstrate clearly the sickness that prevails within the minds of TORIES and UNIONISTS, who would prevent other people from finding prosperity and improvement through change and self determination.

      THEY ARE PATHETIC AND HOPELESS……Each spoken word from them informs us of that. In fact, in Scotland they are an irrelevance.

      Sit back, watch,listen and have a laugh as they speak…’s very revealing.

    31. HandandShrimp says:

      The result from the Oban by election last night was interesting. The previous one in another ward saw the SNP candidate win in the first round but lose at stage five as the other votes were divvied up. Last night the SNP candidate won the first round comfortably (41%) and won despite the subsequent divvy up.

    32. muttley79 says:

      It sounds as if Alex Salmond is thinking about standing at the general election. Could be interesting.

    33. nigel says:

      Scotspine says:
      24 October, 2014 at 12:07 pm
      What kind of mean spirited, cowardly, wincers would posture against the strengthening and advancement of their own country?

      Aberdeen Tories.

      AND 55% of the Scots nation, it would appear.

      Strange nation indeed………..

    34. Ali says:

      actually anything above 49% isn’t a majority. Not a great mistake to make in an article questioning other people’s grasp of arithmetic 😉

      I’d plump for “anything above 50%” personally

    35. desimond says:

      Big dogs have little fleas upon their backs to bite them
      and little fleas have smaller fleas and so ad infinutum

      I know that appears to make us the smaller fleas but was just to highlight how insignificant Aberdeen Tories ( how cringeworthy is that name!) truly are compared to a man like Alex Salmond.

    36. Luigi says:

      Loudmouthed Aberdeen Tories complaining that somebody speaks for a small minority?

      As Yoda would say:

      “Bunch of comedians. They are.”

    37. Stoker says:

      I know its not Aberdeen but i was reliably informed this morning
      that tiny Forres, up on the Moray coast, has over 150 new SNP
      members since the referendum.

      I’m going to start posting all these wee good news snippets as
      and when i come across them.

      Marvelous…..onwards and upwards.

      btw, Gerry, I’m going to follow suit and contact my local MP
      and ask if he can supply me with a copy of his masters vow.
      I’ll let you all know, via WOS, how i got on.

    38. gerry parker says:

      Stoker, great, the more the merrier.

      Increase in Coatbridge, Bellshill and Chryston was from 140 ish to 950 isn.
      I’ll get the actual figures at the next branch meeting and let you know via WOS.

    39. Grizzle McPuss says:

      “Few things are brought to a successful issue by impetuous desire, but most by calm and prudent forethought”

      Thucydides (an Athenian historian, political philosopher and general)

      I think perhaps folks should just sit back and watch as Alex Salmond unfolds and enacts his master plan.

      Judging by last nights QT audience reaction; when biased filtering isn’t in place, then the peoples of both Scotland and rUK get to see the class statesman that he is.

    40. Tam Jardine says:

      For a balanced appraisal of post referendum Scotland, maybe the Aberdeen Conservatives could check out John McTernan’s piece in today’s Scotsman.

      You can almost see the phlegm and bile dripping from the words. John seems to think the Scottish Labour Party are in the doldrums because they are just tired after all that campaigning, and they are missing an open goal in not capitalising on their referendum win.

      Can we somehow arrange for a John McTernan cam to follow his every reaction on May 5th and 6th as the results come in? Might be worthwhile anyway just to ensure he’s not got his neb in the postal votes.

    41. Dan Huil says:

      Blue Tories, Red Tories… same old scum.

    42. Luigi says:

      gerry parker says:
      24 October, 2014 at 12:34 pm

      Stoker, great, the more the merrier.

      Increase in Coatbridge, Bellshill and Chryston was from 140 ish to 950 isn.
      I’ll get the actual figures at the next branch meeting and let you know via WOS.

      Shhhhh! You’ll upset the Aberdeen Tories.

    43. Helena Brown says:

      Sorry to be o/t but PawBroon on Fazzledown, has raised a petition regarding Gordon Brown’s hijacking of the 38 degree petition. Perhaps you can go and sign it. I am thinking about all of those who were duped by him and 38 degrees. The petition is on Change.

    44. Fred says:

      For, “Aberseen Tories”, read “An opinionated twat called Johnstone”.

    45. Luigi says:

      Marian says:
      24 October, 2014 at 11:35 am

      The unionists are clearly very rattled at the refusal of the YES voters to go away after the IndyRef so have resorted to one of their favourite tricks of telling Scot’s to “move on as there’s nothing to see here”

      The power-mad, control freaks at WM are desperate to put the “Scottish problem” back in the box, so that they can start framing and return to the familiar, cosy, Red Tories v Blue Tories mock battles running up to the GE. With the YES/DevoMax movements clearly not going away, and with UKIP on the rise, it is making outcomes very difficult to predict. Events are threatening to run out of control and they don’t like it one bit.

    46. Grizzle McPuss says:


      Come May 2015, poor Prof Curtis will be a man with smoke coming out of his hair atop spinning head, as he attempts to put a reasoned prediction on the GE2015 outcome.

      But we’ll all have a chuckle to ourselves as we’ll all know the likely outcome.

      “Taxi for SLab”

    47. Lesley-Anne says:

      I saw that tweet last night and got to wondering what the Aberdeen Tories thought about the minuscule win that the SNP had in 2011. After all if a win by 5% is overwhelming then surely they must believe that the win in 2011 by the SNP was astronomical. 😛

      Alternatively, as the Tories are in cahoots with the Lib Dems, they ARE still in coalition together are they not 😉 , then surely the only reasonable explanation for this claim that the 5% win was overwhelming is that they have been using Danny Alexander’s amazingly accurate calculator. 😀

    48. Bob Sinclair says:

      Last night’s QT, Alex Salmond was outstanding I thought. He outnumbered the panel 1 to 4 and gave them a polite, humorous but firm doing.

      I’m almost seriously thinking he should consider standing for election in Liverpool given that he was probably the only panellist to elicit a positive response from the audience.

    49. schrodingers cat says:

      North east fife, up from 200 to 1200

    50. bookie from hell says:

      General Election 2015

      will be one of the most memorable in history

    51. Lesley-Anne says:

      Fred says:

      For, “Aberdeen Tories”, read “An opinionated twat called Johnstone”.

      Oh come come Fred, don’t hold back now tell us all what you REALLY think of that very nice and caring individual. 😛

    52. muttley79 says:

      @Bob Sinclair

      Len McCluskey (sp) got a huge cheers as well.

    53. seanair says:

      Bob Sinclair
      Agree with you but there was the usual lie from someone on the panel about Scotland getting more than it’s fair share under the Barnett formula.
      Thought that AS could have nailed that for all those misinformed people in England, some unwittingly and those who know the truth about Scotland’ putting in more than it gets back.

    54. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      There will be big political trouble ahead

    55. Dr Jim says:

      Aberdeen Conservative and Unionist Party
      Ur they AYE…Did they Aye…Dae ah care Naw…
      This is the town, by the way that’s up for the “Carbuncle award” for incompetent planning and building, so how clever are they…

    56. jackie g says:

      a wee nod to last nights br election: notice the labour candidates votes? a taste of things to come..

      The Scottish National Party has won the Oban North and Lorn by-election for Argyll and Bute Council.

      The party’s Iain MacLean won the ward with 1,090 votes.

      The independent Stephanie Irvine polled 629, followed by Labour’s Kieron Green on 530 votes and the Conservatives’ Andrew Vennard with 415.

    57. TYRAN says:

      4.5″ cock = small
      5.5″ cock = overwhelming


    58. Albaman says:

      Hey Stew,and other posterers,
      I take it that you do realise that Scotland has been here before, if you remember before the 1707 ” agreement”, Westminster at that time relied largely on submissions of one Daniel DeFoe, who was in effect a spy for Westminster, travelling around Scotland gauging the needs and aspirations of the natives.
      What’s changed?,fast forward and now we’ve got the “Smith’s Commision ” hey -how .

    59. Robert Louis says:

      Well, if Alex Salmond does stand and get elected to Westminster, that will make it all the more interesting. 40 SNP MP’s, and one of them Salmond, with a hung parliament.

      Laugh out loud funny. Labour and Tories begging Salmond for support. I’d laugh my socks off. 🙂

    60. The Knome says:

      Here is the stupidity every time you see Pro Unionists call it a victory.

      We have won nothing as a nation, and are already loosing out on many fronts, the latest report of Dumfries being marked to become a toxic waste dump for the subs at Faslane.

      Or fraking licensing, or train franchises, or block grant cuts, or the liquidation of parts of ScotsGov that previously had some power and rule.

      Oh and one that some one said they were voting no for to protect: Their comfy state pension, that they have just received a letter to say it is being cut, while they are still employed (and they are not alone).

      Dear No Voters, you have won nothing, given time you will realise this. The question is, will you learn?

    61. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ TYRAN

      Personal experience?

      🙂 😉

    62. Alfie Dickson says:

      Alfie Dickson
      What is the difference here, David Cameron said we should forget about independence for a generation as the referendum was won democratically.
      Chris Graying, MP, Justice Secretary, said about the Human Rights bill which was passed democratically,
      The reality of this bill is that Ministers and Courts have to obey the ruling of the European Courts,
      BUT if you do not like the ruling and you are a politician you have to change the law [quote]

    63. YESGUY says:

      I might be going out on a limb here but ….

      I hope the promises on the Smith commission break down. Every time the tory’s or Labour open their mouths they score an own goal. England are a long way behind Scotland politically now. it’s my hope they ignore us hoping we’ll go away.

      We won’t be going anywhere.

      Scares and smears will get some votes but not the amount they need to make a difference. many No voters are looking like mugs now they have found oil AGAIN, and even the most loyal supporter realise that their parties are careerist numpties that are being run from London for London. Extra powers – Scotch mist more like.

      Laughable Labour , remember Jola chatting about the Slab changing their name to the independent Labour Party had me chuckling. I suggest the “Proud Scot but Labour Party That’s much more honest but then labour don’t do honesty 🙁

      Scottish politics will never go back to what it was and that’s the difference. We are aware more than ever and the huge numbers of new members to indi parties gives me hope.

      These people joined to keep the fight going. I salute them for their determination and grit. We’re going to need them all.

      As for the tory’s. FUCK THEM

      Excuse my language folks but they are smaller than even the Libs. A joke party from another country who will have no bearing on the GE in scotland anyway.

      Even giving them a show here on Wings is more than they deserve. I say forget the buggers , they are not worth the effort.

      Labour on the other hand. Now there is a mob who need cutting down to size.

    64. Proud Cybernat says:

      What are these Tory eejits in Aberdeen bumping their gums about?

      The No campaign’s last minute panic intervention, promising Scotland the world (with a time-table to go along with it) arguably changed the minds of 300,737 likely YES voters into switching their vote to No.

      Private polling by Cameron showed him that YES were heading to victory at 53%. YES ended up on 44.7%–an 8.3% swing from YES to NO as a result of the Purdah breach. Thus 8.3% of 3,623,344 is 300,737.

      Thus, were it not for the Purdah breach and the Great Referendum Intervention, the outcome would most likely have been:

      YES 1,918,726 (52.95%)

      NO 1,712,059 (47.05%)

      The No campagin stole the referendum with blatant lies; lies that ultimately denied Scotland its freedom. And that is precisely why the fight goes on–we will NOT be beaten with Unionist lies and empty promises.

    65. Robert Louis says:

      Derek Bateman going straight for the jugular regarding the Smith commission, in a simply excellent piece of writing on Newsnet Scotland today,


      “Wasn’t it graphic proof of Britain’s Ruritanian political system that when an interlocutor was required to orchestrate inter-party talks on greater democracy, they chose an unelected Lord with a velvet robe edged with ermine – that is, the pelt of a dead stoat.

      Welcome to Britain…Robert Smith is one of those who clearly prostrates himself at the feet of privilege and patronage. Why else would a sane and successful man make such a public fool of himself? What self-respecting, democratic Scot would call himself Lord?”


    66. Lesley-Anne says:

      Robert Louis says:

      Well, if Alex Salmond does stand and get elected to Westminster, that will make it all the more interesting. 40 SNP MP’s, and one of them Salmond, with a hung parliament.

      Laugh out loud funny. Labour and Tories begging Salmond for support. I’d laugh my socks off. 🙂

      I think what would be hilarious Robert would be to see the SNP, as you say, hold the balance of power and tell both the RED Tories and the BLUE Tories where to stick their bleeding heart pleas for help in forming a coalition government. 😀

      Can you imagine the fear in both their sets of eyes as they both realise the inevitable, they will HAVE to talk to our Nige, who will also no doubt have more than a couple of M.P.’s in May, with a view to forming a Tory/UKIP or Labour/UKIP coalition. 😛

    67. Faltdubh says:

      Liz, very interesting reading that tweet from Faisal at Sky.
      TBH, I think he’s been very fair throughout the whole coverage – I’d have no idea where he actually stands/sits on Scots Indy (the way it should be from broadcasters).

      QT was excellent last night.
      Len was good (no doubt at all, he favours Scots indy) even though he didn’t say when pressed.
      Tory MP – to be fair, he’s got a tough gig “Tory Minister for Disabled People” like something out of Private Eye! He held his corner though (not that I agree).

      Flint, Bours – were awful. Bours is pretty much a “white van (wo)man”. Flint had nothing, and her “You lost” digs – just shows Labour throughout – petty losers and horrendous winners too.

    68. AuldA says:


      It’s called the “threshold effect”.

    69. Stoker says:

      Robert Louis says:
      24 October, 2014 at 1:42 pm
      Well, if Alex Salmond does stand and get elected to Westminster, that will make it all the more interesting. 40 SNP MP’s, and one of them Salmond, with a hung parliament.

      Laugh out loud funny. Labour and Tories begging Salmond for support. I’d laugh my socks off. 🙂

      Awe, please, don’t, stoap it – Ah wid die laffin.

    70. Macart says:

      @RL 1.42

      Oh hell, I’d pay good money to watch the outcome of that sitch occurring in the commons. 😀

      Time to practice the evil laugh.

      Muahahahahaha! 😀

    71. tonymac says:

      @Helena Brown says:
      24 October, 2014 at 12:49 pm

      Sorry to be o/t but PawBroon on Fazzledown, has raised a petition regarding Gordon Brown’s hijacking of the 38 degree petition. Perhaps you can go and sign it. I am thinking about all of those who were duped by him and 38 degrees. The petition is on Change.

      here .. 20 so far

    72. John Hermse says:

      It will no doubt have been Big “Pigswill” Alex Johnston who authored the comments. Looks like his lurid style.

    73. Sandy says:

      Meanwhile Cameron says “We will not pay” to the EU

      Imagine if Scotland were to say this to the UK ?

    74. Kenny Campbell says:

      What mandate do the Tories have in Scotland……with their single MP and ‘Scottish’ leader who is a list MSP.

    75. fred blogger says:

      we have it ALL on record.
      the aftermath of the no “victory” was very odd, surreal, the no camp couldn’t quite believe it, i’ve got news for them very few people do believe it.
      many yessers turned to no, this was FOR something and as crash said, what is being offered was the HOME RULE keir hardie had envisaged.
      ashcroft polls and many others the week before and after the indyscot ref, show the clear reasons why the narrow 6% “victory” was “won”.

    76. Johnny says:

      Yes, odd logic abounds. As the Rev points out, 45% is not a ‘small’ minority by any means. Furthermore, it is only a ‘minority’ on the question that was set on the day of the referendum. The Holyrood election last time resulted in a majority voice for the SNP on broad policy planks, so on that basis they do speak for a good many Scots on devolved issues. Finally, the attempt to suggest that No means a majority rejected the idea of more devolution is risible. In fact, only a ‘small minority’ have rejected the idea of devo max in recent polls.

    77. Quentin Quale says:

      It seems that Cameron and Tories are outraged at the EU for asking the UK to contribute more money on back of good economic data. So, pooling and sharing is now a bad thing?

    78. Kenny Campbell says:

      Good Union and Bad Union…..

    79. HandandShrimp says:


      Well you can appreciate the Cabinet Office discussions….

      “but how can they ask for more…they know we are pockling the figures to make them look good”

    80. nigel says:

      TYRAN says:
      24 October, 2014 at 1:34 pm
      4.5? cock = small
      5.5? cock = overwhelming


      hahaha! Brilliant!!

    81. manandboy says:


      Richie Venton. This man is up there with Stu & Craig & Derek et al. His understanding of the political landscape is flawless; his forensics on the root causes of our defeat impeccable.

      “Labour was the chief obstacle to the Scottish working class majority winning the democratic right to elect our own future governments.
      Who in the Scottish working class would listen to Cameron and his endangered political species after all?
      Or to Clegg’s Mini Me Tory collaborators?

      The ruling class of the UK desperately needed Labour leaders to exploit their residual roots in the working class to defend the rich from a movement that threatened to go far beyond changing flags or government headquarters to demanding a change to the entire economic and social system.
      And the Labour leaders obliged, betraying the working class they have exploited for votes and political office for a century.

      One central aspect of this betrayal was the last ditch intervention of Gordon Brown for ‘substantial extra powers’ provided we voted No.”

      It is for this act of supreme treachery with its cynical betrayal of the working class,
      that Labour in Scotland must be given the DEATH PENALTY when the court of Scottish public opinion sits on May 7 2015 for the General Election.

      For they have betrayed not only this generation of the working class
      but also those who have gone before us,
      as well as future generations of working people throughout Scotland.

    82. Ken500 says:

      Who are the Aberdeen Tories? An endangered species.

    83. Helena Brown says:

      Ken500, I doubt they are a breeding pair.

    84. Helena Brown says:

      Thank you Tony, bit beyond me sometimes. Definitely go and sign it every one, I have popped in onto Muguin’s Republic also, and I will copy your link,

    85. Flower of Scotland says:

      Your link didn’t work!

      @gerry My MP is Ming Campbell and I have sent him an email asking for a copy of the vow/promise. I,ll let all know when I get a reply.

    86. Author_Al says:

      Meanwhile in the Record, Margaret Curren is saying while the devo debate is important, she wants to connect with the basic issues… ie wants to dodge the issue. Voters “Want Labour to take the fight straight to the Tories…” Ha bloody ha!

      I went from Labour to SNP because of Labour’s disregard for facts, for its connivance with Tories, for the out of touch stance of Miliband…I could go on a long time.

      Meanwhile, Margaret is commited to raising the minimum wage to 8 quid by 2020… wow, that’ll help.

    87. Free Scotland says:

      Ruth Davidson represents a very tiny minority in Scotland: people who are unaware that tailors make jackets which fit.

    88. Grouse Beater says:

      Albaman: 1707… Daniel Defoe … a spy for Westminster … and now we’ve got ‘The Smith Commission.’ Hey ho.

      Good comparison.

      ‘Dumbing the Dumb’ grousebeater.wordpress

    89. Lesley-Anne says:

      Quentin Quale says:

      It seems that Cameron and Tories are outraged at the EU for asking the UK to contribute more money on back of good economic data. So, pooling and sharing is now a bad thing?

      While the idea that Brussels is telling Cameron he must stump up another £1.7 Billion to pay Brussels because the U.K. is one of the better economic performers I did find myself having quite a wee chortle to myself last night. No not because Cameron has to stump up this extra dosh but because it appears that the calculations that have been done, presumably in Brussels, have included things like prostitution and drugs, allegedly. Who’d have thunk it, the U.K. has thriving prostitution and drugs businesses. I’m thinking that wee Georgie Osborne has missed a trick or two here in his *ahem* efforts to bring down the U’K.’s deficit. 😛

    90. tombee says:

      Aye the same old Tories, embellish to deceive. Anything goes, we’re the elite. Pick on the weak and do it with a smile. Go after the poorest by threatening those who, for one reason or another, took no part in the political scene and for decades, in some instances, did not register to vote, then when they did the Tories, being Tories, assumed they must be poll tax dodgers then threatened them with financial penalty.
      BUT, don’t dare mention going for the bankers. Or all those Tory tax dodgers, oh no, they are our own. Our party financiers.
      Aye the same old Tories. Despicable.
      Pay no head to the numbers of food banks throughout the country. Brought about by their inhumane policies in cahoots with the Lib Democrats.
      A Tory promises is really like a ‘turd ‘ you can smell it but you wouldn’t want to touch it. It’s just excrement after all. It holds exactly the same value as a Tory promise.

    91. Albaman says:

      O/T Stew,
      Just to thank Morag for the update on the Lockerbie saga, must be so frustrating for you to think that the powers that be seem to be kicking this into the long grass, in the hope that the grass will grow long enough to cover all the evidence, at the same time hoping that the living witnesses will slowly die off!, ————the buggers!.

    92. Stoker says:

      Right in the heart of what was once considered to be staunch
      Slabber territory – the tide has well and truly started turning.

      The referendum result for North Lanarkshire was 51% pro Yes.

      Now that is one helluva kick in the gonads for Slabber.

      75-year old retired bricklayer, William Bell, voted Yes.
      He said he stopped voting Labour over conflicts in Iraq
      and Afghanistan, and because of Gordon Brown’ premiership.
      He goes on to say, re; the vow, that a promise is a promise
      and if the vow is not delivered Labour would not have too
      much left in Motherwell.

      67-year old Sam McVey voted ‘No’ but stated he would change
      his vote to Yes if the referendum was being held now.
      Sam said that he voted No only because he never had it
      explained to him how his pension would go. He went on to say,
      “But now, when i listen to Miliband, and the other ones –
      it is a certainty they are going to backtrack.
      Margaret Thatcher killed this town (Motherwell).
      I was always a Labour man – i worked in mines and the steel-
      works. But i will never vote Labour again.”

      Take note Slabbers…..the times…..they are a changing.

      Rancid Red Tory Traitors.

    93. Stoker says:

      As if we needed one, folks, but here is another very good reason
      why this store chain has to be boycotted.

      Asda faces mass legal action over equal pay for women:

    94. X_Sticks says:

      Sorry O/T but important.

      You’ve all no doubt watched Independence Live broadcasts of indy debates and interviews. They have provided us with a superb service bringing many voices to the Scottish debates that we would not have seen but for their efforts.

      They are crowdfunding to keep the show on the road. At the moment they have reached 55% of the meagre £4k they are asking for and there is only 7 days to go.

      Please dig deep for this fundraiser Wings. Independence Live deserve your support far more than our state propaganda broadcaster. Stop paying the licence fee and give some of the money to a worthwhile cause.–2/wdgt/2910307

    95. Aidan says:

      Many of the “Aberdeen Tories” are suffering from undiagnosed BSE in my opinion.

    96. galamcennalath says:

      There’s an awful lot of wishful thinking from Unionists. They won, but what did they win, what did they achieve and at what cost. The campaign may have begun as independence versus status quote, but by the 18th it’s fair to say everyone believed it was independence versus some pretty amazing last minute offers and promises. (Whether those were believable or not is another whole debate!)

      The Uion had a near death experience, I read somewhere. Very true.

      And Stu’s rugby analogy of their win, is spot on … “perhaps to a last-gasp converted try, having been within three points with a minute to go” …. sums up the closeness of their win.

      So, they think they won outright, it’s all back to same old shite from London, they can backtrack on everything, we’re all back in our wee tightly closed box. Think again!

      Something Tories in particular should remember, there will ALWAYS be more of us than them!

    97. Natasha says:

      X_Sticks @3.56pm

      Quite right, I watch independence live all the time. Have just contributed another tenner. Please, anyone who can afford even just a couple of quid, please contribute; they do a great job.

    98. Seepy says:

      Lesley-Anne says: “I’m thinking that wee Georgie Osborne has missed a trick or two here in his *ahem* efforts to bring down the U’K.’s deficit.”

      I understood that it was a matter of public record that he had made strenuous efforts in both these economic activities, a number of years ago

    99. Papadox says:

      David Cameron PM.

      This guy and his followers (and EBC) were fond of explaining how Jose Manuel Barroso was a great guy and says it like it is, Scotland was f***** over at Cameron’s behest.

      So Barroso tells Cameron he ows the EU some 1.9 billion pounds, now he’s a lier, waste of space and a con artist talking shit, not to be listened to or trusted.

      (“O the twisted web we weave…)” (beware your sins will catch you out)

      They are very nasty people these unionists.

    100. Mark Macleod says:

      Can we all please stop referring to these parasites as ‘sir’, ‘dame’or ‘lady’please. They are people, just like us. When we refer to them by these titles, we give them the KY gel, whilst bending over into submission for a good rogering!

    101. manandboy says:

      Johann and Anas Sarwar; I’m sure Punch & Judy lasted much longer.

      I guess that’s what happens with glove puppets.

      Better with the real thing. Eh, well, maybe not.

      ‘Bye Johann. Union backing isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. Is it?

      Never mind, there’s always teaching; except that is’nt what you’re cut out for either. Oh dear, that just leaves the job centre. Maybe then, and for the first time, you’ll know what your talking about.

    102. kevin murray says:

      With Ruth Davidson its not line in the sand but more…..fat fucking blob lying on the sand!….Will she still be in her job after the Scottish election in 2016??….methinks not!

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