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Tories Of The Day

Posted on October 05, 2015 by

The ever-delightful Taxpayers’ Alliance, speaking at the Conservative conference:

tpa

We’re not sure about that last line, chaps.

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    1. 05 10 15 10:43

      Tories Of The Day | Speymouth

    218 to “Tories Of The Day”

    1. grahamlive says:

      Just read that BBC article. Could scarcely believe what I was reading. What complete and utter sick bastards.

    2. bugsbunny says:

      I wonder what the many pensioners who voted NO will be thinking now folks after this? If this doesn’t convince them to vote YES next time, then, quite frankly, nothing will.

      Stephen.

    3. Grouse Beater says:

      Brutal opinions like those of Mr Wild – the doctrine of ‘shock’ economics – guarantee riots in the streets.

      The reality is, in today’s right-wing climate he has every chance of seeing his opinion made policy and implemented.

    4. Your correct Rev I for one won’t be forgetting any of it any time soon

    5. handclapping says:

      They’re not known as the Nasty Party for nothing, you know.

    6. Janine says:

      The last line can be explained by the confusing propaganda that will appear in the MSM making it look like it was caused by the last Labour government.

      The same crap that’s been going on since the late 70’s. The Tories implement harmful policies, then Labour get a brief sojourn in office and decline to reverse any of them but throw in some sweetners to make it look like they’re the ‘nice guys’ and then the Tories get back in and remove the sweetners to make room for more harmful policy that Labour (if they ever make it to power again) won’t reverse.

      They spend so much time blaming each other that no one notices that they’re actually working together …

    7. Mae Carson says:

      I honestly can’t keep my anger down on this, I’m spitting feathers.

      Winter fuel allowance has already been slashed by the tories from £200 to £150 leaving a particularly vulnerable group worse off. These are the homebound pensioners who for many reasons can’t go to public libraries etc for warmth during the day.

      Now they will be joined by active pensioners denied their bus passes. Jeezo!

      “Call me Dave” should be called Hitler he had similar anti-social ideas.

    8. bugsbunny says:

      I have seen people like that in the streets of Ayr, with badges, believe it or not, approach people going into their parked cars, challenging them, (after saying we’re from Tax Payers Alliance), whether they are in fact genuinely disabled, (you can’t get down the High Street during the day without a badge), and questioning them about their benefits, complete with pen and clipboard, taking down registration numbers, make of car, taking photos etc, and asking the more gullible their name and address and what benefits their on. One guy was nearly lynched and we all gave him a mouthful after reducing an obviously disabled woman to tears. What powers, if any, do these slim have, and what gives them the moral right to challenge people going about their everyday business? Are they the new improved DSS grasses? Cunts.

      Stephen.

    9. mogabee says:

      Well, Granny may have dementia, but daughter, son, niece, granchildren etc ad finitum, do not.

      Not all folk are politically aware, but FGS this surely must wake some of them up?

    10. handclapping says:

      But then again how different are they from those posting that we can have the next Referendum in 2019/20/21 as all the old folk who voted NO will have died off?

    11. Rigmac7 says:

      “We need to do what we all know deep in our hearts to be right.” Liam Fox, tory scum in same article.

      They actually believe they have hearts – deluded pig shagging fuckwits

    12. Almannysbunnet says:

      The bit that gave me a wry smile was from Liam Fox.
      “Older people would understand the need for cuts to their benefits.” “We need to do what we all know deep in our hearts to be right.”
      Aye we understand the need for the cuts alright. It’s to help pay down the deficit caused by the lying bankers.
      Oh and Hearts!? Do me a favour!

    13. Johnny says:

      Some folks may forget, but not ones who read Wings. The rest of us can do our best to make sure that even non-readers never forget either.

      I suspect this might already be in the works but an online chronology of when acts and bills where passed (translating into plain language what the ramifications were of each) really would be useful. Searchable by words (say ‘winter fuel allowance’, so that people could easily look back and see who enacted what and when. People really would not forget a thing then.

      I believe this is the idea behind Project Red though I am not sure if that project is aimed at making it easy for everyone to search these things out or just researchers (and journos, who’d have no excuse) to do their bit.

    14. ClanDonald says:

      Further down the article Mr Fox goes on to say, “The Government had to make the “moral” case for reducing public spending further.”

      By “moral case’ what he actually meant to say was, “Fuck you OAPs, don’t think the taxes of my rich buddies will be paying for your free bus travel any more.”

    15. Wulls says:

      Absolute absolute wanker…..,first class.
      If anyone still supports this bunch of bastardised rich boys now you really need to have a good look at yourself.

    16. muttley79 says:

      But Alastair Darling and the MSM were telling us for more than two years that we had to seek refuge as part of the mighty British economy and state. Surely it was not all lies?…

    17. The Political Editor of the Taxpayers Alliance is Mr. Jonathan Isaby. He is also co-editor of ConservativeHome.com In 2008, he co-authored “Boris v Ken: How Boris Johnson Won London”.

      There’s some eyebrow raising insight into the Taxpayers Alliance courtesy of The Guardian at …

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/09/taxpayers-alliance-conservative-pressure-group

      In essence, it has Conservative money running right through it.

    18. steveasaneilean says:

      And why isn’t Ruth calling for Mr wild to be removed from the Conservative party?

    19. john king says:

      And they crucified Niel Hay for something similar and he didnt even say it!

    20. call me dave says:

      @bugsbunny

      Yeah shocking stuff but with the Tories and their right wing camp followers, we know what to expect, at least they stab us in the front.

      Unlike you and me they did not turn left at Albuquerque!

    21. thehairycaber says:

      Mr Wilds comments are wildly inaccurate, as not just pensioners get Winter Fuel payments. Many with terminal illnesses and disabilities get it as well, so these people who aren already suffering; will suffer more and for longer in the case of those with disabilities. Just another example of the reason, why I just want to give up fighting for my life; if the world around me is filled with hate like that.

    22. galamcennalath says:

      I’m not surprised. The tragedy is that some people will be.

      Everyone who voted No must be told politely about what the Tory rule they signed up for might actually mean.

      Clearly, many of the 55% were seriously ill informed. I do not believe for one minute that more than a tiny percentage of Nos actually approve of policies like this. Next time, we need to make sure everyone chooses the option which best suits their needs and views!

      Information and education!

      A lot of things will be different in IndyRef2 but perhaps the greatest difference will be that if it is crystal clear what voting No means.

    23. James Kay says:

      Handclapping, at 10.17

      There is, I believe, a fundamental difference. The TA policy being discussed here will actively kill some of those who will die before the next election. Nobody is proposing policies to kill older NO-voters before the next referendum. The natural processes of time will (probably, possibly) change the demographic profile of the voting population.

    24. scott says:

      As a pensioner I am going to email Ruthie asking if she hopes I am gone before the next election or maybe she would prefer I was gone before the Scottish election.
      Still the NASTY PARTY

    25. Ken500 says:

      The cockroaches are coming out of the woodwork. Thick as thieves. Major’s bastards.

      This will decrease the Tory vote and increase support for Independence. It only needs a 5% swing.

    26. Rigmac7 says:

      @handclapping 10.17am

      Nothing remotely similar. Cutting peoples benefits which could (will certainly) lead to earlier deaths????

      I disagree strongly with anyone stating that peoples deaths can benefit one side over the other. But you cannot compare this, a suggested policy which will certainly cause hastened loss of life, with someone saying that in 5 years there will be less OAP no voters.

      Ironic, people who counted on the OAP no vote in the referendum now reward them in such a way and those who were frustrated that the OAP no vote could not be enlightened to the truth will be the ones fighting to keep their benefits for them.

    27. caz-m says:

      As I mentioned yesterday, Liam Fox doesn’t seem to have a problem paying £12Million pound EACH for ten new unmanned drones OR £100,000 for EACH missile they put on them.

    28. Brian Powell says:

      bugsbunny

      The pensioners who voted know will expect the Scottish Government to ‘fix it’ so they won’t be disadvantaged!

      And Labour will continue their mantra that the Scottish Government should ‘use it’s tax powers’ to pay for whatever Tory policies come along. They were better together after all.

    29. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Handclapping

      “But then again how different are they from those posting that we can have the next Referendum in 2019/20/21 as all the old folk who voted NO will have died off?”

      It’s VERY different. I might not agree with a pensioner voting NO but I am damned if I want to see them killed off by Tory fucking policies. Natural demographics is quite a bit different from unnatural Tory death policies.

    30. Macart says:

      I don’t think there are words apt enough to describe how low that is.

      That prick is in for a rude awakening if he thinks anyone will forget who would introduce such policy.

    31. North chiel says:

      Just heard a speaker quote “Lady Thatcher” at the
      Tory conference ” if they attack you personally, it means
      that they don’t have a single argument left”.
      Last weeks questions to the First Minister from Kezia and Ruth ( re Michelle Thompson)
      “springs to mind ” .

    32. caz-m says:

      Surely this will be the main topic on Call Kaye’s phone-in tomorrow morning, surely!

      IF you are a fair and balanced organisation, then BBC Scotland, you MUST run with this story.

    33. Almannysbunnet says:

      So voting no got you NO winter fuel allowance, NO bus pass, NO Christmas bonus and NO “other pensioners benefits.” And of course NO democracy. I’m sure the MSM will be incensed and be all over this story, NO chance!

    34. Karmanaut says:

      He’s right in one respect.

      Cutting the winter fuel allowance will lead to many more pensioners freezing to death, particularly in Scotland, so those pensioners won’t be around next year.

      To me, that seems like murder.

      But then the Tories have never shied away from making decisions that kill poor people, if it means the rich get to keep more of their money.

      This is the sick society we live in.

    35. michael diamond says:

      This should be on large billboards all over scotland at next yrs sg election. And a week before any independence ref. Then the people wont forget what bastards implemented it.

    36. Murray McCallum says:

      This is the cost of being a “global player”. Cuts have to be made to cover the expense of Trident, drones, overseas missions, aircraftless carriers, etc.

      If the UK continues its path of striding the world stage there will be no universal free helthcare or state pension either.

    37. charles mc says:

      ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    38. Alexander Heath, a director at Taxpayers Alliance admits that since he’s domiciled in France, he doesn’t pay UK tax …

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/09/taxpayers-alliance-director-tax?CMP=share_btn_tw

      Perhaps once the TA has achieved near zero tax rates for wealthy people, he can safely return to Blighty?

    39. michael diamond says:

      This should make a good front headline for the national.

    40. Luigi says:

      bugsbunny says:

      5 October, 2015 at 10:07 am

      I wonder what the many pensioners who voted NO will be thinking now folks after this? If this doesn’t convince them to vote YES next time, then, quite frankly, nothing will.

      Regarding support for indy, I think the game-changer will be when it soon becomes painfully apparent that Labour are not coming back for a long, long time, if ever. It’s more of this crap for at least another decade. Indy will start to look a much more attractive proposition to many soft NOs.

      Hell, it has started already. Pennies are dropping:

      Clink, clink. 🙂

    41. captmaxspacecat says:

      @handclapping
      Thay are no more the nasty party .Thats just a warm fuzzy memory .these cunts ar just downright evil.

    42. Almannysbunnet says:

      A bit off topic but couldn’t resist seeing as the thread is about tory of the day. Cameron cheese anyone?
      https://archive.is/FEI2x

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Demographics. As others have said, commenting on changes which are inevitable as Nature takes its course cannot be compared to political policies which will actually KILL people.

      The first is merely an observation. The second is a morally irreprehensible act!

      It’s the difference between saying some people will inevitably be struck with lightning, and, a policy requiring people to carry long copper rods!

    44. Proud Cybernat says:

      I’ve been thinking again. (Yes, it did hurt but just a wee bit).

      We constantly use the term ‘MSM’ to describe our mainstream media. Fair enough. But the people who operate this media (or rather their owners) are actually the enemies of the people of Scotland. We need a term that gets this message across to people. The term ‘MSM’ is just too bland and essentially meaningless to most people and is a term that has no ‘political identity or interest’ associated with it. In fact, it could even be argued that in using the word ‘Mainstream’ then everything else outwith that view is a ‘fringe’ view. The word ‘Mainstream’ gives the term ‘MSM’ gravitas that is entirely undeserving because they are nothing but Unionist propagandists–each and every one of them (‘The National’ excluded).

      If, however, we start using the term ‘Corporate Media’ (which ie effectively what it is and who it serves) then immediately it has an identity and immediately people can seeits political affiliation. It is a media that serves corporate interests.

      So right now in Scotland there is an information/propaganda war between big business ‘Corporate Media’ and the people’s ‘Social Media’. If people begin to understand that the newspaper(s) they read actually serve the interests of big business and don’t give a hee-haw about the interests of ordinary people then, hopefully in time, those still fixated with such ‘media’ will turn away and look elsewhere for their information i.e. the people’s Social Media.

      Or how about: ‘MSM’ – Mainstream Social Media’?

      And that completes my ‘thought for the day’.

    45. heedtracker says:

      To be fair red or blue Tory tax breaks have to actually be paid for. So it’s simple teamGB economics after Osbone’s inheritance tax cuts on your £1 million wills, last budget. Pool and share everyone, pool and share. UKOK .

    46. michael diamond says @ 5 October, 2015 at 10:54 am

      “This should be on large billboards all over scotland at next yrs sg election. And a week before any independence ref. Then the people wont forget what bastards implemented it.”

      No, no – we can’t do that. That would be negative and we all know how a positive campaign ALWAYS beats a negative one.

      We waited 2 years during the referendum campaign for the gloves to come off and we’re still waiting. Would now be a good time? Hopefully, cos I for one am sick fed up to the back teeth with the always-on-the-defensive, happy-clappy sh*te.

    47. Bob Mack says:

      To be fair, they only said that pensions would be safe. They said nothing about allowances.
      Sadly politicians have that ability to create the slight of hand that enables them to miss out those parts of the truth that cause most damage to their electoral chances.
      Shower of ( fill in your swear word of choice).

    48. pussy nancy says:

      I hope the Tories are aware that a really ‘rough ride’ UK & western European winter is on the cards for 2016? This is the prediction of a well-known and respected American forecaster who has been spot on for the last 3 years in his own country. All to do with the well below Atlantic sea surface temperatures apparently.
      Their tactics therefore may have the desired effect of killing off pensioners but if it happens as predicted, then it sure as hell will kill them and their intentions off as well!

    49. Free Scotland says:

      During the referendum, we saw “bikers for independence,” “women for independence” and even “conservatives for independence.” Are we about to see the launch of “Angry Pensioners for Independence?”

    50. nodrog says:

      Just read the article about Alex Wild of Taxpayers Alliance including comments of Liam Fox. Yes I can believe it , this is raw power in operation. The Tories know that Labour is dead (Corbyn mania did not last too long) and by keeping the VOW (Aye that’l be right) the SNP can be ignored for a generation. So for the next 15 years the ball is at their feet and they can kick it anyway they like.

      David and Tank Commander(Ruth) appear to have written off the fact that the Conservatives had their lowest share of the vote in Scotland for over 100 years. Those in Scotland who “flocked” to Corbyn may now be wondering “where to now?” and the obvious answer is the SNP.

    51. EphemeralDeception says:

      Ah, so thats what the broad shoulders of the UK meant – more pensioners to take a hit.

    52. Sharon says:

      @thehairycaber, thankfully they are still the minority.

      Please don’t give up fighting. It will all be worth it.

    53. CameronB Brodie says:

      The eugenics program run by the Nazis, started with the elderly and infirm, before moving on to the Jews and other ‘undesirables’. I would imagine Boris and his chums will be right behinds this one. After all, doesn’t every cornflakes packet needs a good shake, from time to time? Just saying.

      Don’t you love the smell of Fascism in the morning?

    54. heedtracker says:

      Far right Voice of the North Press and Journal going nuts on Thompson as usual today but lovely boost for Ruth Davidson at conference with giant “Sturgeon must do more for Scotland” headline, Trident 2 oncourse and massive full page monstering of everthing Scots.gov from the great Brian Wilson, but zip about pensions. Cant think why these conartists leave out stuff like blue tory pension slash and burn.

      “Blue Tory England, red tory Scotland. Its the only way says the P&J”

      Thats a lot cooler than neo fascist “Voice of the North.”

    55. Nana Smith says:

      I showed my friend the list of things labour blocked for Scotland through the smith commission. She was shocked and took it along to a pensioners club do.
      Not one of them knew that scotlabour had blocked welfare among other things so it just goes to show that unless we get the truth out there nothing will change.

      If the tories bring this forward there is no way the Scot gov can mitigate the effect as they have done with the bedroom tax and that is exactly what westminster wants. Scottish budget being slashed while westminster steals and robs us blind with labours agreement.

      What will be the ‘material change’ that finally kicks the backside of the yes movement to get up off it’s knees. Do they wait until our pensioners are freezing to death, with no food or comfort. Do they wait until our youth are so demoralised with no future in sight.

      I like scunnterbunnets idea of billboards showing ‘then and now’ posters of what BT siad before the ref and what is now happening and most of all what scotlabour blocked.
      I also think community leaflets would be beneficial, handing them out to passersby or shoving through letterboxes.

      I await the snp conference and hopefully a new ‘fight fire with fire’ attitude, as they have been far too soft to date.

    56. Bob Mack says:

      I am exasperated this morning. For the life of me I cannot understand how ordinary people can put a tick in a box that allows these inhumane ,arrogant beggars to govern the country.

      Have people in the UK sunk so low that there is a total lack of empathy for their fellow citizens ?. Is the true mantra “I’m all right Jack ?”. Coming as I do from a background in the tenements of Glasgow, I cannot understand the deliberate disinterest in making sure your neighbours were never short or in trouble,without being given the offer of a helping hand.

      I am appalled. Perhaps I have lived too long, as I cannot reconcile my upbringing with the wider Society we live in today.
      It is just alien to me.

    57. Clootie says:

      …but didn’t the very group under fire vote last year,in very large numbers, to be “Better Together”.

      We tried to tell them over and over what was coming.

      The direction of travel in Westminster is fixed. It is what South/Middle England wants.

      There is only ONE answer – determine how to achieve a fair society and have the levers to implement it.

    58. Tony Little says:

      @Dave

      I agree to a large extent that the original YES campaign was often too ‘soft’ (for want of a better word) on the Corporate Media, especially the BBC. But I think part of that was the reality that had they come our ‘fighting’ they would have got even less coverage. Also they had the disadvantage that most (or at least many) people considered the media to be objetcive.

      Just as it was important to get the idea of Independence into ordinary speech, it was also important that the BBC/Corporate Media were allowed to demonstrate their own bias and complicity with the Establishment. Now far more people are aware of this.

      I also get the impression that Nicola Sturgeon is more prepared to challenge the media than Alex Salmond was (for the reasons above). She now has a basis for this more robust reaction, which I hope she uses.

      Finally, should anyone from the SNP/YES side be reading, we MUST have some form of rebuttal unit to immediately dispel and challenge the lies and mendacity we read and hear from the Corporate Media and the BBC/ITV establishment mouthpieces. Time the gloves came off.

    59. Andrew McLean says:

      Proud Cybernat

      ‘Corporate Media’ yes that’s a better way, MSM is to vague, and the “Media” tag puts “social Media” on the same footing.

    60. Andrew McLean says:

      Proud Cybernat

      Yes ‘Corporate Media’ yes that’s a better way, MSM is to vague, and the “Media” tag puts “social Media” on the same footing.

    61. Les Wilson says:

      I agree with others the SNP must up their game, being nice does not work. We need hard hitting things to get the message across to pensioners. Posters would be a good idea, also getting folks on social media to explain it to pensioners who they know.

      There are many other thing that could be added to a list of projects using these media’s.Something has to give,we cannot continue to meekly say little of these austerity cuts.
      Meanwhile the Tories are upping the defence budget by obscene amounts, no austerity there.

      Scotland needs to start shouting and get angrier in our responses to this stuff.
      Wild’s words were gut wrenching.

    62. carjamtic says:

      Witness the fall of the union,like many on here have commented,never interrupt your enemies when they are making huge mistakes.

      What next for the Tory think tanks, the privatising of our city streets,George Square – Carling Court,Princess St – Jenners Avenue,Union Street- Range Rover Rodeo Drive.

      Oh by the way your not allowed in, besides you can’t afford anything here and anyway you don’t even have a bus pass.

      Indy Ref 2 is coming sooner than they think,there is life in these old warriors yet, Dugdale and Davidson will not be allowed to dance/squirt at Holyrood,while Scotland elderly freeze in their homes or get chilled to the core walking to or queuing at food banks.

      Tick Tock

    63. mike cassidy says:

      And that other tory of the day, Lord Adonis, is a director of Dods

      which owns the company which produces the Holyrood magazine

      of the apparently embittered Mandy Rhodes

      Wheels within wheels, eh.

      http://www.dodspartyconference.co.uk/holyrood

    64. EphemeralDeception says:
      5 October, 2015 at 11:30 am
      Ah, so thats what the broad shoulders of the UK meant – more pensioners to take a hit.

      ==========================================

      It is the YES voting pensioners I feel sorry for. The NO voting pensioners, I hope I never hear them complaining. I will tell the latter to stop complaining you voted for this.

      This view might not be popular, but they didn’t think too much about my Grand children’s future when they put their cross in the NO box, they were thinking about themselves.

    65. call me dave says:

      Pensions: international comparisons – Parliament.

      (PDF file for googlers)

      In section 2: Only Japan and Mexico are below the UK on average wage pension entitlement tables data 2013.

      Section 5. State pension age

      In the UK the state pension age is currently 65 for men and 60 for women. The women’s age will rise to 65 progressively between 2010 and 2018.

      From December 2018 the state pension age for both men and women will start to increase, reaching 66 by October 2020.

      The State Pension age for men and women will then increase to 67 between 2026 and 2028, followed by a further increase from 67 to 68 between 2044 and 2046.6
      Worth a keek only 6 pages.

      I’ll be deid by then but my kids will still be slaving away. 🙁

      ————————————————————–

      Torrance in the Herald (I know… 🙁 ) trying to inflate the Tory balloons in Scotland.
      Six months to prove whether Ruthie is right he says!
      (won’t archive… a blessing for us all)

      PS:
      Maybe this will convince my well known lib/dem voting, Sunday Post parents in-law from Oban that the SNP isn’t bad.

      Not HS2 by any means but OK.

      https://archive.is/X4net

    66. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34434917
      Ruth Davidson predicts ‘best ever result’ in Holyrood vote

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34442262
      Alex Salmond tried to fly as Captain Kirk

      Another neat display of BBC attack propaganda today. Planet Pacific Quay is no mood for UKOK facts n shit. Not until after May Scottish elections at least, then they’ll think about reporting actual red and blue tory stuff, if we’ve vote how they say.

    67. deewal says:

      Tory pensioners will still vote Tory.

      As far as us SNP Pensioners that voted Yes are concerned this just let’s our children and grandchildren know that they need to vote Yes in the next Indyref and Double SNP next year.

      Anyone know where this cunt Fox lives ?

    68. Helena Brown says:

      Just commented abut a picture on Munguin where a load of booze was vanishing into the building that lot are having their party in, that do they drink the booze before they speak or after, given this statement I would think that they are constantly drunk and don’t do thinking either.
      There may be an increase in Dementia, but many of us do not as yet have it. They may wish we had.

    69. bugsbunny says:

      deewal@12.00pm,

      This is one Fox I wouldn’t mind seeing ripped to shreds and whose blood is smeared over a young grinning ninnie whippersnapper.

      Stephen.

    70. Luigi says:

      Folks, we seriously need to inform those uniformed/ misinformed pensioners who voted NO, well before the IndyRef 2 campaign begins. Many are completely unaware who is shafting them. We simply cannot afford to leave this critical group to the BBC and tory press again. They will try to transfer blame to the Scottish Government:

      “Look we gave the Scottish Government tax-raising powers, what have you done for the poor pensioners? (we may have shafted you but that’s not the issue – it’s their fault for not protecting you).”

      “See how much your pension/ benefits have fallen? Imagine how worse it would be if Scotland was independent!”

      Yep folks, we know what’s coming. Time to target the grey vote and pre-empt all this nonsense, methinks.

      A Wee Grey Book ?

    71. ArtyHetty says:

      Just wow! The pensioners are going to be a tad upset, because they believe that the winter fuel payment and free bus passes, are in fact their right. They also do not consider them to be benefits, as I have heard my neighbours say.

      A couple of things, re the bus pass, that depends on where you live. My brother in N E England cannot get his until he is 65, he’s 62 soon.

      Regards the winter fuel ‘allowance’ for pensioners, this is very different to the winter fuel payment, which, at the discretion of the fuel company, can be paid to vulnerable customers, those with a person who is disabled in the household with a very low income. I am not sure however where the funds come for that come from, but when I switched supplier, I lost out as the new supplier do not award the same fund to vulnerable customers, so you really have to check if switching, as my bills are bigger now, than with the last provider!

      Someone here said something about disabled people being accosted in the street, what! I would immediately call the police if I witnessed this, it would go against all laws on harassment and discrimination for what that’s worth. The perpetrators could and should be taken to court over this. It would be illegal, at present.

      Lastly, I was in N E England at the weekend, and to cut a long story short, was thoroughly and utterly shocked by the complete ignorance about Scotland and independence. Murmurs of the Scottish people let the tories in, and are ‘idiots for voting no’!

      Sadly, my two close friends, who I had not seen for a couple of years, were the worst. I won’t go into all of what they said, but their bias, ignorance and close on hatred for the pro Indy people of Scotland was extremely worrying. Isis, the EU, and fascism were brought into the ‘conversation’. I had to block out some of what one of them was saying for self preservation. No kidding, it was very unpleasant.

      They read the graun, watch bbc daily, do not agree that the internet is a good source of information on political matters, are comfortably retired, (early, nice) and are quite obviously utterly brain washed. However we are all apparently brain washed and have been in receipt of ‘propaganda’ for having thought we could ‘separate’.

      Probably the most idiotic thing they said was that I should go live back in ‘England’ if I ‘feel that Scotland is oppressed’. Also, cannot bring the past into it, except they did, being Irish they brought up the Scottish being ‘taken’, no, they changed that to, ‘choosing” to go fight the Irish with the English, whenever when.

      Ok one last thing, as far as they are concerned, as pro independence folk, we are all making very ’emotional’ decisions, and not ‘political’ ones.

      I will steer clear other than the odd xmas card, and am only just getting over the resulting depression, but their house is really extremely cold, even colder than mine! :))

    72. caz-m says:

      O/T

      @heedtracker

      Did you know that the actual name of the Quay that BBC Scotlandshire is built on is called “Plantation Quay”.

      I don’t know where the name “Pacific Quay” came from.

      Do you think they are trying to break all links with the past – West Indies, slavery and all that stuff.

    73. heedtracker says:

      When they voted NO, BetterTogether.com stated online Sept 19 last year, “Scotland votes for Unity.”

      A bit muted considering the sheer full on teamGB horror show that was Project Fear, masterminded by a big fat lad who now boasts he saved Scotland from independence. anyhoo-

      “Scotland votes for unity! Lets move forward together to achieve faster, better, safer change for Scotland within the united Kingdom.”

      That’s word for word. If you fell for that all that ukok shyste, you’re going to get a second chance.

    74. Fireproofjim says:

      MSM – Mainstream Mafia would be good and accurate.

    75. ArtyHetty says:

      Luigi@12.08pm

      I was just thinking that, a wee book of some kind that would also point out what has not been delivered.

      Oh and just one more thing, Jezza C is going to sort all the probs for the oppressed folk of England according to friends and family in NE Englandshire.

      Sorry as my last comment was contrary to cutting a long story short! I do not think to go into too much detail is a good idea, paranoia maybe, but I do wonder if the establishment, get some of their ideas about where to propagandise from online.

      Onwards and upwards, we will get there! Blowing raspberry at the idiots! ???

    76. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Can we have the outrage from the msm re this sorry tale. Kezia???

      Police probe missing £10,000 from Labour party coffers

      https://archive.is/h0I9z

    77. yesindyref2 says:

      A one page A5 leaflet, with a title something like but snappier:

      “What the UK Government has done or wants to do since the NO vote.”. With subtitle “Do you still think we’re really Better Together?”. Or the other way around!

    78. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Handclapping

      Your irony at the top of this thread was overconcealed.

    79. jacksg says:

      caz-m says: at 12:27 pm

      O/T

      @heedtracker

      Did you know that the actual name of the Quay that BBC Scotlandshire is built on is called “Plantation Quay”

      That took me back a bit so here are a couple of links guys you may find interesting.

      My grannie came from Govan,and i always heard people refer to living near or in the Plantation(Govan area.)

      http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSB00308

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation,_Glasgow

    80. liz says:

      @caz-m. Thats interesting, I used to wonder why it was called Pacific Quay when it’s no where near the Pacific.

      Plantation has too many associations with slavery

    81. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Caz-m

      The whole area behind PQ was called Plantation, although technically Govan. My Dad was from there, another country.

      It was where the boats from West Indies berthed bringing sugar and fruit etc

    82. caz-m says:

      Can you all feel the love coming out of the Tory Party Conference folks?

      No!

      Maybe we have to wait on wee Ruthie Tank Commander passing it on to us at FMQs on Thursday.

      Hallelujah!

    83. boris says:

      This is a good site listing just about all news of Scotland and the politics that drive our nation. Well worth a look

      http://www.chap-chap.com/

    84. handclapping says:

      @BtP
      Agent provocateur? Moi?
      Jamais 🙂

    85. muttley79 says:

      I don’t really understand people who say the SNP must up their game. It was only a few months ago that they won 56 out of 59 seats, and support for independence is at an all time high. This is in the face of the MSM in the UK, who largely openly hate the party. Only last week the deputy editor of the supposedly liberal and progressive Guardian, Michael White, put the SNP on the same level as UKIP, and said they were both not progressive! White made no distinction between them. That is the mindset and world view the SNP and other pro-independence parties are up against. To White and the British establishment Scotland is their possession.

    86. handclapping says:

      Oh Govan was the home of imports from way beyond that time. The famous Govan pandas were immigrants given to the Strathclyde kings by Vikings that had raided the Silk Road and were trying to interest the Celts in mascara rather than body paint.

    87. Alan of Neilston says:

      Just listened to George Osborn’s Speech at the Conservative Conference. What a load of the usual British/England/U.K. Mantra expected from this lot. Not a mention of Scotland!! More we have to live within our means and Britain Deserves a pay rise. The B.B.C. Daily Politics show covering it has had not one Opposition Party Person giving an opinion or covering it. We had Sir Anthony Seldon a Biographer of David Cameron interviewed for 15 minutes by Jo Coburn coming to the conclusion that George Osborn is being groomed to be the Next Prime Minister. The B.B.C. and The British Establishment in full Propaganda mode.

    88. caz-m says:

      jacksg 12.41pm

      I was born in Govan jack, I know the Plantation area very well.

      Good to hear that your granny was a fellow Govanite.

      And I know the Clyde very well and there was never a Quay called “Pacific Quay” but people in power think it sounds better than “Plantation Quay”(Slave Trade).

      This suits BBC Scotland, always trying to hide the evils of the past, e.g. Jimmy Savile.

    89. Sinky says:

      I wonder what Duncan Hotherall says about his local Labour constituency party’s missing money

      Police probe missing £10,000

      https://archive.is/Wgn51

    90. heedtracker says:

      jacksg says:
      5 October, 2015 at 12:41 pm
      caz-m says: at 12:27 pm

      O/T

      @heedtracker

      Did you know that the actual name of the Quay that BBC Scotlandshire is built on is called “Plantation Quay”

      I did not! When you see how dead the Clyde is now compared to say 70 years ago, its horrifying. Struck oil, early 70’s, all of it sucked south, horrifying poverty for decades, as their SLabour goons lived high on the Westminster hog.

      Actually, the new and exciting SLabour generation is UKOK bullshitting today in the Daily Record, and Kezia says vote SLab to save Scottish steele, SNP bad for Scottish steele.

      As great British bullshitters go, SLabour have produced some world beating con artists and this new and exciting Corbynesque era of Slab reign looks no different, apart from majority just aint buying their SLab bullshit anymore.

    91. Proud Cybernat says:

      Allow me to paraphrase a couple of posts.

      @Nana Smith
      “Can we have the outrage from the msm re this sorry tale. Kezia???”

      Can we have the outrage from the Corporate Media re this sorry tale, Kezia???”

      @Miuttley79
      “This is in the face of the MSM in the UK, who largely openly hate the party.”

      This is in the face of the Corporate Media in the UK, who largely openly hate the party.

      The difference is small and subtle. But it helps to put a ‘face’ to who the ‘MSM’ really are in this country and identifies precisely who it works for. And it is not the people of Scotland.

      People need to see that and so we need to stop using bland, meaningless, neutral descriptors like ‘MSM’.

      It’s all about perception and we need to change peoples’ perception of the media in this country. It is not a friend of Scotland. We can start by referring to it by what it really is and who it truly speaks for i.e. the Corporate Media of big business and the Establishment.

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @bugsbunny says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:07 am:

      “I wonder what the many pensioners who voted NO will be thinking now folks after this? If this doesn’t convince them to vote YES next time, then, quite frankly, nothing will.”

      I’ve several times mentioned this but it seems to fly over the heads of some. In any sample of the people of Scotland a percentage will be Unionist Councillors, MSPs, MPs and MEPs and their direct office workers plus there are Unionist Constituency and Branch Office workers. Each one of these will have family friends and close followers.

      Furthermore, as these Unionist Parties have been so long established in the Scottish political scene there are all those older people who have filled those unionist posts in the past. The SNP and others are Johnny Come lately and thus have less such grassroots older people as dedicated followers.

      In short the perception that there is an untapped seam of elderly people as potential independence supporters of other parties is a myth. It seems to me the older SNP supporters are mostly, like myself, life long SNP activists and supporters and that perceived seam of older potential Independence voters are, in fact, the actual present Unionist Party members family friends long term card carrying party members.

    93. caz-m says:

      Yes, BBC Scotland, the House of Lies, should be removed from the Govan skyline as soon as possible.

    94. yesindyref2 says:

      There was a headline in the Herald, since changed, the original was “David Cameron tells Tories Shine has come off the SNP”.

      I daresay the Herald will run a story on this Alex Wild thing headlined: “Alex Wild tells Tories Shite has clung to the Tories”. Or not.

      I daresay too the Herald will run a story “Police probe missing £10,000 from Labour party coffers in seat where Kezia Dugdale will stand next year”.

      Or not.

    95. Tinto Chiel says:

      ArtyHetty @12.15.

      I agree completely: I have family members who moved to England who talk just like this. They are beyond any logical argument and their vitriol would be unnerving if I hadn’t experienced Airdrie fans in the old main stand at Broomfield in the 70s.

      Like you, I “patch” them now and get on with my life. Even a Christmas card is a waste.

      Producing flyers and a “Wee Grey Book” are good ideas but if it doesn’t have the BBC/MSM imprimatur, pensioners don’t believe it. During the Ref, we produced sheets in our Hub with the DWP statement saying pensions would remain unchanged after a Yes vote, but the old souls refused to believe it and threw them away. Things weren’t helped by the local Labour MP and a Labour Lord telling them the same old pension lies, which I thought was unforgivable.

      That”s our biggest problem with getting the truth out: producing a trustworthy alternative narrative. The only good news is that more and more people are rejecting what they see and read from The Establishment.

    96. Desimond says:

      Anyone else picture Alan B’stard saying that rather than Alex Wild?

    97. Colin Rippey says:

      Unbelievably SHOCKING that people would consider it politically beneficial that some elderly people would be dead the next time a vote takes place.

      Or maybe the elderly, whose overwhelming No vote tipped the balance against their children and grandchildren, have simply started dying off already, to be replaced by a younger generation of new voters more wedded to the idea of a better future than to remembering World War 2 and Gracie Fields or whatever.

    98. Scott Shaw says:

      I’ve been thinking on Proud Cybernat’s post on the MSM name.

      How about MUP – Mainstream Unionist Propaganda. You could also have alongside it PETS – Proposing Evil Tory Shite.

      When you have parts of MUP like the Daily Record and their vow you may join the two together to make MUPPETS.

    99. Sinky says:

      Is anyone going to investigate the Labour candidate for Edinburgh Southern who is a company director of several shops?

      https://archive.is/hbMDP

    100. Grouse Beater says:

      BtP: The whole area behind PQ was called Plantation, although technically Govan. My Dad was from there.

      Good to see you here again. Bugger! Sadly, there’s just as many phony indies and obvious trolls but keep the faith. 🙂

    101. Valerie says:

      Disgusting attack on the elderly.

      @the hairycaber, please keep fighting, and your point is very well made. People with chronic or terminal illness have to be warm, more than healthy folk.

      Slightly off topic. Huffpo reporting c.80k at the protests yesterday, AND a very clear pic of an armed sniper on the roof overlooking.

      Manchester police running a bullshit defence saying the rifles have good powerful scopes to see the crowd!!!

      Beggars belief we are expected to believe binocular s are so shite these days. It’s a sinister move IMO. Not long until they outlaw protests like striking.

    102. yesindyref2 says:

      So, basically, in the UK we have:

      Liberal Democrats: led by a man who supports his party member leaking a confidential memo knowing it’s a lie, and then lying about having leaked it.

      Labour: led by a man who will support the Conservatives continuing to kill people on benefits by cutting their benefits.

      Conservatives: led by a man, as is the UK, who sticks his dick in a dead pig’s mouth.

      Rule Britannia
      Britannia rules the sleaze
      Britain will never never never
      Get off its knees

    103. ArtyHetty says:

      O/T

      Everyone, and I mean all of those I met in Newcastle this past few days, were bemoaning the fact that Redcar Steel works were going to close down, losing 1700 jobs. ( I suspect the reason for pointing it out so much was an attempt to blame the Scots and SNP).
      However, the tories put in 80m to cushion the blows ie, job creation, training and cash injection for local businesses, and now it looks like it might not close at all.

      Make of that what you will.

      Tinto Chiel@1.29pm.

      Absolutely what you say, I think the xmas card list is getting shorter, for sure, being Irish, Donegal, I naively thought they would have a certain amount of sympathy for Scottish Indy.

      My no voting, very comfortably off, retired neighbours had the wee blue book. Hwoever their ignorant minds were made up. There are some who will be more open minded though.
      Ok must go take the National off the bottom shelves in my local shops now.

    104. Macart says:

      @muttley 79

      Nail on head there muttley. Whenever I hear ‘up their game’ or ‘take the gloves off’ I’m left somewhat mystified. As in how should the most successful party in the UK up their game, or in what way take their gloves off?

      I can’t think of any party leader in the UK that wouldn’t bite their own arm off to enjoy even half the popularity or success of the current Scottish Government.

      There are only two things preventing Scotland from going forward and overturning last year’s result. Those being a corporately and politically compromised media and the other, the electorate themselves.

      One has drawn up the drawbridge and bolted their doors denying any favourable access for the SG or the greater independence movement and a significant percentage of the other simply lacks the confidence to take that final step. They are tied to decades of mis direction, propaganda and govt./media manipulation.

      Phenomenal strides have made in combatting this over the past few years and most especially in the past two. We are so close, you can taste it and all we need is that wee bit more time. The idea of independence and self reliance needs to become normalised. Likewise confidence in our government and parliament. We need and want folk to look to Holyrood rather than Westminster for direction, to the newer technologies and younger media projects (such as iScot or the National) for alternative news sources.

      Its taken eight short years to go from Westminster dominance to where we are today, overturning generations of establishment manipulation. The establishment is panicking, lashing out and now more than ever, I reckon is the time to hold out a hand and reassure people. Thanks to last years result, we are going to go through some bad times before it gets better, that was the choice that some folks made and we are obliged to live with in the short term. However we can right this with the help of those same people.

      In the meantime I reckon we should:
      a. continue to do what we are doing in terms of supporting our young media projects
      b. keep on knocking on doors
      c. encourage our talent to get creative with new ideas on reaching people
      d. hold out a helping hand in every community

      Especially the last one; foodbanks, clothing charities, keeping an eye on elderly friends and neighbours in our communities. In the coming winter every little bit that can help is going to be needed.

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      So the BBC’s Scottish HQ is built in the heart of the community that was the focus for Scotland’s historic slave trade. There’s an unfortunate symmetry about that, no?

    106. gus1940 says:

      Is it not the case that Osborne’s decision to allow English Councils to retain Business Rates will just make London & The SE richer at the expense of the less prosperous areas.

      The UK’s Dark Star sucks in more of the nation’s riches.

    107. Chic McGregor says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      You right. ‘Mainstream’ is a quite undeserved accolade for those who inhabit the sick psychological fringes most of our media does.

      But ‘Corporate’ superficially has too much of a business connotation even if in reality that is what it all boils down to.

      How about ‘Vested Media’ instead?

      That includes all kinds of vested interest.

      Or perhaps ‘Establishment Media’?

    108. caz-m says:

      BBC Scotland seem very reluctant to hold the Tories to account for anything.

      You notice it when they have Ruthie Tank Commander in the studio.

      They “Interview” Ruthie.

      Yet when they have an SNP rep in the studio, they “Interrogate” them.

      Is this because Ruthie was once a BBC Scotland reporter?

    109. Capella says:

      @ Proud Cybernat
      I like the idea of using “Corporate Media” instead of MSM and it does convey the real status of those disinformation outlets.

      It needs to be understandable when abbreviated too. CM doesn’t quite have the instant recognition factor of MSM but we might soon get used to it.

    110. Scott Shaw says:

      Couldn’t agree with you more Macart. I will be sorting in to age brackets my 18month old sons old clothes and giving it to the Clothes for Kids charity in Edinburgh and Lothian’s. It was mentioned on the thread when the Rev was looking for worthy charities to give to with the proceeds of the crowd-fund for the starving lady fined £500. So thanks for that suggestion whomever it was.

    111. heedtracker says:

      Colin Rippey says:
      5 October, 2015 at 1:39 pm
      Unbelievably SHOCKING that people would consider it politically beneficial that some elderly people would be dead the next time a vote takes place.

      Colin Ripley the whole thing is that Gordon Brown in particular put the fear of god up everyone really, that pensions would be slashed if we voted YES.

      There was all kinds of Brownian terror blasted at Scotland out of BBC vote NO Scotland, one Brownite horror was no more organ transplants from the rUK, but he went UKOK mental over pensions.

      There’s all kinds of youtube stuff of BBC Brownian rage explaining clearly that there was only £4bn in Scotland to pay for £40bn public spending and in particular, Scottish pensions.

      Then we go to his furious horror stories over UK state pensions being lost and how that was right too because even if you’ve been paying NI all your working life, it was only right and UKOK proper that you don’t get a UKOK pension. if you vote YES.

      Crash Gordon lives of ever in Scottish history, in infamy.

    112. Chic McGregor says:

      Soylent Blue.

    113. nodrog says:

      The only conclusion I can come to is that being a Tory chancellor gives you not only economic powers but also geographic powers. Who else could create a new point to the compass, NN(north/north) , as George just did with his Northern Powerhouse reference including Yorkshire and parts South. In other words all parts of the, one nation, UK North of Yorkshire are in the North/North of the UK. Someone should tell The National Geographic Society.

    114. Scott Shaw says:

      Sorry, that was Kids Love Clothes Charity.

    115. YesMeansYes says:

      I have been referring to the press as “Rich Kids Broadsides” but I think “Corporate Media” is a good choice to use from now on.

      Also for the BBC presence in Glasgow –

      A colonial plot of land, tended by compliant natives, for the benefit of their foreign masters.

      Plantation Quay it is.

    116. yesindyref2 says:

      @ArtyHetty “Ok must go take the National off the bottom shelves in my local shops now.”

      Indeed. On my travels around Scotland I often see the National in pride of place on the top shelf. It’s either the shop owner or workers, or people like you doing the good work.

    117. yesindyref2 says:

      @Colin Rippey
      I agree. It’s wrong for anyone to want old people to die off.

    118. bugsbunny says:

      Crypto Unionist Naysayers Twats Foaming Loons And Peadophile Scum.

      Take the first letter from each word and that spells out what I think of, when I see or hear a Tory, or a NO voter in general.

      Stephen.

    119. Robert Peffers says:

      @ClanDonald says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:23 am:

      “By “moral case’ what he actually meant to say was, “Fuck you OAPs, don’t think the taxes of my rich buddies will be paying for your free bus travel any more.”

      Now, ClanDonald, I’m about to point out something that should be glaringly obvious that I’ve attempted to point out several times before but which seems to never make an impression in the thinking of most people.

      The main thing that has widened the gap between the very rich and the very poor is not direct taxation.

      Until fairly recent times the mainstream of the tax system was direct taxation. That is a tax on what you earned, either by wages, salary, investment profits or business profits. Certainly there was indirect taxation in the form of, “Purchase Tax”, but this was only levied upon really luxury items like real fur coats, the more expensive foreign perfumes and high value foreign wines & spirits.

      Then the Labour Party introduced indirect taxes – that is on the things, including services, that everyone has no option but to buy. That is such as VAT, Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Betting tax, and so on. Now everyone has to pay these taxes, even sometimes as passed on to customers by sellers and providers.

      Now more tax is paid by the poor than by the rich and that is the main purpose of indirect taxation.

      Now consider why. Tax should most fairly be levied upon what is called, “Disposable Income”, defined as :- “The part of a person’s income remaining after deducting personal income taxes”. In plain language that means, “after paying your direct taxation”, so indirect tax is additional, not instead of, direct taxation.

      Now, the poorer you are the larger proportion of your income is required for your basic existence. Such as housing, eating and clothing you and yours, or in fact the smaller your Disposable income. In short it cost just the exact same to put a tattie on a rich man’s plate as it does on a poor man’s plate. So the rich hardly notice the effects of indirect taxation and they have even more surplus disposable income to stash in their bank accounts.

      Ergo the rich get richer and the poor get screwed to pay for it.

      The most poor, though, not only do not have any disposable income but the present Unionist mantra demands they suffer excessive cuts in their already inadequate basic needs just to exist. Statistics now prove there are significantly more unnecessary deaths due to those cuts. “Unnecessary”, in this instance means murdered by the government.

      Sorry but there is no short way to explain all that.

    120. yesindyref2 says:

      @Chic McGregor
      “Pliant Media”. Has the advantage of having the initials “PM” for the UK.

    121. msean says:

      Read that this morning,and they call the snp nazis. I feel sorry for elderly NO voters who were taken in by bettertogether pensions lies.

      Tories can’t distance themselves from this,it seems it was part of the toryfest,the one behind the metal fence that looks sturdier than the one they put up for refugees. In an English city.

    122. Lesley-Anne says:

      You know there are police snipers on the surrounding rooftops at the conference of Pig Lovers United. What the hell have they been doing to allow this massive PRAT inside the Pig Pen to make such a obnoxious statement!

    123. Dr Jim says:

      You don’t have to be a Robert Peffers history expert to remember this treatment is exactly the same method as was dished out to the Irish and that turned out well didn’t it

      There is no economic benefit to these type of cuts it’s purely ideological and actually ends up costing the country more by trapping pensioners in their houses they need more heating and their health suffers due to lack of exercise

      NHS expenditure has to go up to cope with more hospitalisation and home care for elderly folk rendering any idea of economic saving totally worthless

      This Tory government aided and abetted by a vile Media is set on taking Thatcherism and Blairism to the extremes

      A future of Dickensian levels of poverty are on the cards unless the people of Scotland get informed, unfortunately we will get no help from the Media because their entire focus is on removing the SNP who, as Scotlands governing party are the only thing standing in the way of total British Government Dominance

      Now more than ever we must cast every vote we have for SNP to help them force a people led mandate for Independence

      Unfortunately like quite a few Wingers I’m a bit of an oldie but I’ll still be printing this article and taking it round the local care homes and sheltered housing projects but younger ones, show your Mums and Dads and Grandparents this proof of what the Britnazis are up to

      If you get the chance look for a film by Ken Loach called “The wind that shakes the Barley” it was on in the middle of the night last night about Ireland and what the Brits promised to that country and then Fcuked them

    124. heedtracker says:

      Here you go Colin Ripley. Google is your friend Colin, so google Gordon Brown and Scottish independence and liar and gazillions of results pop up. You have to hand it to the BBC Colin, they went completely bat shit UKOK crazy trying to stop Scotland voting YES.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/gordon-brown-is-a-liar/#more-60279

      is just one of dozens of historic UKOK whopper telling sessions from Crash, hand picked audience, no questions, blanket coverage, idiots like Jakey Botox Bird looking like they’ve just won the lotto, teatime news.

      You know the drill Colin Ripley. All you britnats know the UKOK drill. Brown’s real legacy is the end of SLab, with the next and last referendum. Unless you britnats know differently.

    125. Cadogan Enright says:

      As a taxpayer, I’d like to know how they select their spokespersons and how taxpayers as a whole can elect their governing committee

      Are these people self appointed?

      Do they receive any funding from outside bodies?

      Anyone know

    126. yesindyref2 says:

      Or “Socially Corrupt Unionist Media”.

    127. Ian Clark says:

      Proud Cybernat (at 11.17 a.m.)

      Well said. If we keep using the term ‘corporate media’ (and ‘state broadcaster’?), then it might take off like the term ‘red tories’.

      We may use the same language as the Britnat elites but in this political war we need to choose words which reflect our experience of the world and indicate our values. Tories’ talk of ‘welfare’ reduces fellow citizens to individuals who should be grateful for charity and who can reasonably be expected to work in the modern day DWP poorhouse. ‘Social security’ is not a term I have fond memories of, but it does suggest that we are all citizens in a caring society.

      Language is important.

      PS I should, of course, have used the term ‘heartless, selfish, pensioner killing b*******’ instead of ‘Tories’.

    128. aitchbee says:

      Isn’t the same sort of remark that Neil Hay was vilified for having made on Twitter (as Paco McSheeple) and which was used to scupper his General Election campaign?

    129. Luigi says:

      Mutley @ 12:49pm
      Macart @ 1:52pm

      Yep, there seems to be quite a bit of unnecessary “concern” appearing. The same pattern emerges as always, from the same old suspects:

      1. SNP must up their game.
      2. We need to have IndyRef 2 tomorrow.
      3. The National newspaper does not really support independence (so don’t buy it).
      4. We can’t win – the establishment is too strong (they won’t ever let us leave the UK).

      Now they are not trying to create division and uncertainty among us, surely?

      A short answer is appropriate for these pressing concerns (or should I say obsessions):

      BOLLOX

    130. MJT says:

      I agree with the folks who say we have to educate, inform and enlighten pensioners as to the true state of affairs, with regards to pensions, and the general state of the union. We know that fear can influence people who might not be as well informed as others.

      It’s easy to be angry and somewhat contemptuous, but many people are just not switched on to the same sources of information as most/all of the posters and regular frequenters of this site. It’s frustrating, but we have to understand what we’re dealing with and worth with that. The quest for independence is an ongoing process.

      So…how best to inform No voting pensioners, and how best to equip Yes voting pensioners so they can inform/educate No voting pensioners is a reasonable question to ask. Furthermore how should Yes voting sons/daughters and grandsons/daughters go about leading their No voting loved ones to the path of enlightenment.

      I feel this is just one aspect of an optimal strategy, where we leave no stone unturned and aim to reach every demographic in the best way or ways possible.

      And…as a member of the SNP, I’d say, don’t rely on the SNP, we need to rely on ourselves and each other and the SNP should fall into our slipstream. With every passing day it becomes more and more clear that a war is being waged on the people of Scotland, and has been since, well as far back as you care to go.

      But, we have computers, we have people like The Rev, writing first class articles, and we have each other. We’re the good guys and girls…we just need to keep working on getting our message out there and spreading the knowledge and as we do our best, figure out how to do it better. And we’ll get there sooner than most of us think.

    131. Robert Peffers says:

      @handclapping says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:17 am:

      “But then again how different are they from those posting that we can have the next Referendum in 2019/20/21 as all the old folk who voted NO will have died off?”

      Well said, handclapping, and the fact is it flies in the face of reality, and reality is that in every case, no matter which party is in power, people become more conservative as they grow older.

      Just a few weeks back the Rev Stu posted a piccy of the extreme left firebrand Alistair Darling carrying one pole of a far left banner in a march through Edinburgh. Today, the now grey headed Darling, is more Conservative than David Cameron and spent the entire referendum campaign doing the Tory’s work for them.

      Note also how many Labour Peers, who once fiercely wanted to do away with the Lords, are now polishing red leather benches with their now too ample arses, while imbibing some of the finest subsidised foreign wines that the poor people’s taxes can afford.

    132. yesindyref2 says:

      Headline for the National tomorrow perhaps:

      “We’re Better Together”. Unless you die of the cold this winter.

    133. yesindyref2 says:

      Or another one:

      “Best of Both Worlds. You’ll be in the next one sooner than you thought”.

    134. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Chic McGregor 1:55pm

      I hear what you say, Chic. I think, though, that whatever name we decide to label the 99% Unionist media in Scotland with, it cannot and should not be overtly negative or biased.

      If, for example, we started to call it MUPPET (as Scott Shaw above suggested) then that will immediately put those who still obtain their news from these sources immediately on the defensive since such a term is poking ridicule at these readers. We don’t want to scare the horses.

      But whatever is decided, it has to be a moniker that is honest without being (too) partisan or exclusive. The term ‘Corporate Media’ is what it is and speaks to who its paymasters are. This is a battle of ‘The People’s Social Media’ (PSM) versus the Big Business Corporate Media (BBC-M).

      Given the thrawn nature of many Scots, I suspect I know where they would rather be in such a battle. And given that many a Scot is slightly distrustful of large corporates/corporations, the term ‘Corporate Media’ will tap into that distrust.

      I am open to all other suggestions, of course. At the end of the day, all I am saying here is that we need something much more descriptive of the media in Scotland than simply bland, meaningless ‘MSM’; something which when the unwary hear it then it will make them think twice about the news/message it is delivering to them. When we decide on what that label should be then we should all use it regularly and widely. Get it out there and make these unaware readers aware.

      This is a propaganda war, folks. To have a chance of winning it then those who are still fixated with reading and listening to the usual sources need to be (re)educated. That is where the fightback begins–by changing minds. This is just one tiny step along that road.

      So I suggest ‘Corporate Media’ (CM) or ‘Big Business Corporate Media’ (BBC-M).

    135. Robert Peffers says:

      @Wulls says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:26 am:

      “Absolute absolute wanker…..,first class.
      If anyone still supports this bunch of bastardised rich boys now you really need to have a good look at yourself.”

      Nah! The problem is the buggers are spending too much time looking at themselves and their selfish interests and don’t ever look at the misery and actual deaths their selfish self interests is causing to so many other perfectly decent human beings around them.

      There can only be two explanations of such behaviour. Either they do not know, or care, what their greed is doing to others or they believe the poor are poor because of their wicked way of life or by their free choice of a wicked dissolute lifestyle.

    136. Skip_NC says:

      If the Tories keep on going like this, could the cumulative effect be a “change in circumstances?”

    137. Al-Stuart says:

      Hi Stephen,

      If you see another Taxpayer Alliance idiot reduce a person who is disabled, or indeed anyone to tears in such a way again, PLEASE call Police Scotland and seek to have the Taxpayer Alliance stooge charged with either:-

      1] A Breach of The Peace; or

      2] Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

      Source: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/contents

      If this happens after the courts close on a Friday the nasty creep from Taxpayers Alliance may well have to spend a weekend in the police cells. This should ensure time for media to be alerted once the disgusting cretin is released after court on the Monday morning. By naming, shaming and photographing these wannabe Hitler Youths, they can then receive the public opprobrium due.

      If there is any justice, Taxpayer Alliance offenders can receive up to 5 years in prison…

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/section/9

      What a bunch of disgusting creatures they are.

      Best of luck, Al.

      ———————————-
      bugsbunny says:
      5 October, 2015 at 10:15 am
      I have seen people like that in the streets of Ayr, with badges, believe it or not, approach people going into their parked cars, challenging them, (after saying we’re from Tax Payers Alliance), whether they are in fact genuinely disabled, (you can’t get down the High Street during the day without a badge), and questioning them about their benefits, complete with pen and clipboard, taking down registration numbers, make of car, taking photos etc, and asking the more gullible their name and address and what benefits their on. One guy was nearly lynched and we all gave him a mouthful after reducing an obviously disabled woman to tears. What powers, if any, do these slim have, and what gives them the moral right to challenge people going about their everyday business? Are they the new improved DSS grasses? Cunts.

      Stephen.

    138. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Dr Jim

      “NHS expenditure has to go up to cope with more hospitalisation and home care for elderly folk rendering any idea of economic saving totally worthless.”

      That’s the plan Jim. Now ask yourself the next question: who benefits from that? Who owns the shares in all these hospital trusts doon sooth?

      There’s (ill) method in their madness, y’know.

    139. yesindyref2 says:

      @Proud Cybernat
      The problem with muppets is that they are apparently lovable creatures, and are returning to TV (Sky 1).

      It doesn’t carry across the generations. “Referee you’re a muppet”.

    140. YesMeansYes says:

      I have been referring to the press as “Rich Kids Broadsides” but I think “Corporate Media” is a good choice to use from now on.

      Also for the BBC presence in Glasgow –

      A colonial plot of land, tended by compliant natives, for the benefit of their foreign masters.

      Plantation Quay it is.

    141. ArtyHetty says:

      Dr.Jim@2.21pm

      Oh thanks for reminding me, the film, The Wind That Shakes the Barley was excellent, if available to watch online, I will send to my Irish unionist friends who even said that, “Scotland has no language and no culture”. Yep it was that bad, then accused me of losing my sense of humour when laughing at my protests!

      Jeez, looking back on it, can I forgive? Well one of my little daily memo cards today was ‘forgiveness’, bugger that just now!

    142. Almannysbunnet says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      5 October, 2015 at 1:21 pm
      Allow me to paraphrase a couple of posts.

      Maybe you could ask the Rev to do you a favour and autochange MSM and main stream media to Corporate Media. Just like we have for ("Tractor" - Ed)s and ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s.

    143. jacksg says:

      Read this and tell me if i am missing something?

      The Scottish government is to receive an extra £500m as a result of UK government plans to boost infrastructure funding.

      Scottish Secretary David Mundell confirmed the additional funding at the Conservative party conference.

      Chancellor George Osborne has pledged an extra £5bn for transport, energy and housing projects.

      Scotland will get a share through the Barnett formula but ministers at Holyrood can decide how it is spent.

      The Barnett formula is a system of grants which dictates the level of public spending in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

      Under it, extra funding – or cuts – from Westminster are allocated according to the population size of each nation and which powers are devolved to them.

      Mr Mundell said the additional £500m would be passed to the Scottish government through the block grant. It will not have to be spent on infrastructure projects.

    144. Pam McMahon says:

      Yes, but its not easy to frighten some us old people who have supported independence our whole lives. We WILL die off in a subjugated country, but others will take our place.

      As many of us who have fought for the return of Scotland to an independent nation for 50 years or more, I thought that last September was going to see the success of that fond hope. Sadly, I will die as a colonialst of the imperial state of Great Britain, and not as a free and independent member of the nation of Scotland.

      As will many of you. We kept the flame alive over many years. Keep passing it on.

    145. galamcennalath says:

      bugsbunny says:
      “…. what I think of, when I see …. a NO voter in general.”

      Not all No voters can be lumped together.

      Yes, there those hardcore BritNats who knew exactly what they are voting for. Many being Tory supporters and no doubt pleased with their new PM.

      As I stated somewhere above, there is no way 55% of Scots fully appreciated that they were signing up to what they have got.

      From that, I conclude that had they opened their eyes, sought out information, and did some objective thinking, they would have seen that a NO vote would sooner or later have resulted in rampant Tory excess..

      Everyone should make decisions with up to date information, not just stick with the same old mantras for guidance. Politics and constitutional issues are the same as everything else, and too many people voted NO without really assessing if it was the best deal for themselves, and those they cared about. They stuck with the names, brands and opinions they had known from the past.

      The Corporate/Unionist/Establishment media reinforced their blinkered decision making, saying “trust me, you know me”.

      Our job is to open eyes and shove alternative information before them! Those who voted NO last time will deliver a YES win next time. No one else can do it!

    146. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:47 am

      “It’s VERY different. I might not agree with a pensioner voting NO but I am damned if I want to see them killed off by Tory fucking policies. Natural demographics is quite a bit different from unnatural Tory death policies.”

      You call it what you like, Proud Cybernat, but this disabled OAP sees you and your kind out there like bald headed vultures watching, waiting and circling around me waiting for my corpse to decay to feed on the remains.

      How do you feel when I say to you that I’m just awaiting on hunters to cull the carrion feeders as there are far too many wishing me dead?

    147. Jack Murphy says:

      ProudCybernat concludes at 2:38 pm:-
      “So I suggest ‘Corporate Media’ (CM) or ‘Big Business Corporate Media’ (BBC-M).”
      What about honest, plain and simple,’Big Business Media’. BBM. 🙂

    148. Al-Stuart says:

      In reply to Handclapping

      Regarding your post – the difference is no one on the YES side – even those who use emotive words – no one here is guilty of KILLING OFF PENSIONERS.

      It cannot be any clearer. If you are a Tory MP like Liam Fox in league with right wing Taxpayer Alliance Mein Kampf brigade – they advocate REMOVING WINTER HEATING ALLOWANCE from vulnerable pensioners. FACT…

      https://archive.is/kRIQz

      Ergo many pensioners will die as a result of the Tories and Taxpayers Alliance. FACT. Between 20,000 and 40,000 pensioners already die each winter due to heating (lack of it) related illness. Even the Express (spits) and Telegraph (vomits) agree…

      https://archive.is/EHLsD

      https://archive.is/ZyZGv

      THAT my friend is THE big difference.

      ———————
      handclapping says:
      5 October, 2015 at 10:17 am
      But then again how different are they from those posting that we can have the next Referendum in 2019/20/21 as all the old folk who voted NO will have died off?

    149. Desimond says:

      @yesindyref2
      Conservatives: led by a man, as is the UK, who sticks his dick in a dead pig’s mouth.

      Its taken as read that this is a totally made up story and only alive cause a sad wee rich mans laywers are too expensive to dare combat. Heaven help us if we start believing the Press!

    150. heedtracker says:

      Also for the BBC presence in Glasgow –

      A colonial plot of land, tended by compliant natives, for the benefit of their foreign masters.

      Plantation Quay it is.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/corporate2/insidethebbc/managementstructure/biographies/macquarrie_ken

      And their Uncle Tom, or at least one of them. As bloated as MacDouggal and astonishing propaganda merchants, have to hand it to them all.

      Wonder when their next Rab C Nesbit slander of the Scots will get farted out BBC Scotland style? I think James Naugty would be a shoe in as Rab C Naughty, that adenoidal Scotch cringer’s sneer is comedy gold.

    151. tartanarse says:

      Wow.

      Checking my Twitter and honestly thought that this was a piss take so turned to Wings to find out the truth(as ever).

      I really wouldn’t be shocked if every paper carried a picture of Osborne or Dave with his middle finger up with the headline “Fuck you poor people, 5 more years.”

    152. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      “You call it what you like, Proud Cybernat, but this disabled OAP sees you and your kind …”

      Me and my kind? Charming. I can only think you misread or misinterpreted my earlier post. I think we’ll just leave it at that, shall we.

    153. Lesley-Anne says:

      I have to admit Al that the wee advert thingy at the top of the Telegraph article you linked to really has me creased up.

      https://archive.is/ZyZGv

      Are they for real???

      Ex Pat with £70K+ in UK pensions?

      Surely a better line would have been:

      “Are you a Tory with a pension?” 😀

    154. yesindyref2 says:

      @jacksg
      Yes, what you’re missing is that Osborne’s autumn budget is expected to CUT the block grant by £1 billion in other ways.

    155. arthur thomson says:

      Like everyone else I am frustrated by the ‘apparent’ lack of venom of the SNP in response to the offensiveness of the unionists. But when I calm down I realise yet again that boxing clever is the only option we have – and it is not a bad option.

      The tragic alternative can be observed all over the world where violence has broken out and the people are being maimed and killed just because they wanted a better way of life. Contrast that with the fact that Scotland is a better place than it was just a few years ago with no violence. We must continue to be patient and be the voice of reason. Our opponents want us to rise to the bait; to up the anti so that they can demonise us – with hard evidence to prove it. We have to do nothing to justify their despicable attacks. We have to resist all attempts to goad us into rash actions. The world looks on at this game of cat and mouse and they can’t be other than impressed by the success we have achieved by being smart.

      We have to do everything we can to support the SNP in their gently, gently approach because it works. We have to keep our egos in check and keep our eye on the goal.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, can’t find anything about that £1 billion (which would be £12 billion by Osborne). There was a cut of £107 million due to last year’s budget, due to happen 2015-16 so in this year’s Scotland budget. I think it’s to do with spending in England though, which would mean cuts of £10 billion to their NHS, education etc. budgets, and be £1 billlion in ours.

    157. heedtracker says:

      I really wouldn’t be shocked if every paper carried a picture of Osborne or Dave with his middle finger up with the headline “Fuck you poor people, 5 more years.”

      Its a lot more than 5 years

      CHRIS DEERIN: Things are looking good for Gorgeous George Osborne, our next prime minister
      By CHRIS DEERIN FOR THE DAILY MAIL

      Feel the neo fascist’s thrill of it all. Far right teamGB in 15 years is going to be everything St snatcher thatcher could have ever dreamed of.

    158. Luigi says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      5 October, 2015 at 2:31 pm

      @handclapping says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:17 am:

      “But then again how different are they from those posting that we can have the next Referendum in 2019/20/21 as all the old folk who voted NO will have died off?”

      Well said, handclapping, and the fact is it flies in the face of reality, and reality is that in every case, no matter which party is in power, people become more conservative as they grow older.

      I understand what you are saying, Robert. In most circumstances (party politics) this would indeed be the case. Regarding the referendum, however, I would say that the experience of voting YES was such a life-defining moment, I really cannot see many who voted YES ever turning to NO, whatever age they are when IndyRef 2 occurs. We are all defined by the way we voted last year, YES or NO, hard or soft. One rather pleasant effect of this was the election of 56 SNP MPs at the GE (former Labour voters who now identify themselves as supporters of independence). In effect a massive cohort of “young” YES voters will grow older (and probably more conservative!) in years to come, and hopefully this will be backed up by new, social media-savy recruits and this will be enough to take us over the line.

      Putting that “X” in the YES box was such a powerful, personal experience, it was an effective branding. We are now marked for life. No wonder I was shaking when I did it!

    159. Nana Smith says:

      O/T Indy live from Manchester videos

      http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/IDSProtest

    160. Sinky says:

      arthur thomson

      SNP puts out loads of stuff much of which can be found here

      http://www.snp.org/media-centre

      but getting the BBC / MSM to use it when they prefer to repeat Labour press releases word for word rather than doing proper journalism .. other than mud slinging.

    161. Robert Peffers says:

      @Murray McCallum says: 5 October, 2015 at 10:55 am:

      “If the UK continues its path of striding the world stage there will be no universal free helthcare or state pension either.”

      You’re a bit late with that, Murray. Just now there are news reports that in Britain (Sorry!) England, GPs are paid thousands NOT to refer patients for hospital tests.

      http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/gps_paid_not_to_refer_patients

      Now, in case you don’t realise it, the resultant cuts in the British Err! English NHS funding will create a negative Barnett Consequential in the S******h Block Grant. So the British Err! English GPs are inadvertently cutting the S******h Block Grant.

    162. How about just calling them the SUM – Scottish Unionist Media? Sounds a lot like SCUM but isn’t quite. Might be enough to plant what they truly are in folks’ minds.

      Advertisers know that 3-letter words ending in “x” are good in headlines as they sound like “sex” even though they’re a different word.

      Maybe barking up the wrong tree here but SUM is the least offensive thing I can think of for them. 🙂

    163. Finlay says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      Excellent idea. “Corporate Media” – perfect! Shall adopt that term myself and advocate it’s use.

    164. jacksg says:

      yesindyref2 says: at 3:14 pm

      @jacksg
      Yes, what you’re missing is that Osborne’s autumn budget is expected to CUT the block grant by £1 billion in other ways.

      Indeed they really have some brass neck. 😕

      Anyone reading that statement(without reading between the lines) would think we were getting more money?

      Aye the plebs are no so fecking daft tory boy we know what your bloody game is shower of B*******

    165. yesindyref2 says:

      The disgusting increasingly Tory Herald has run with a story about Liam Fox’s comments. His comments about Better Together needing to improve next time, that is, not his comments about killing off OAPs this year.

      In a few short weeks I think the Herald will be saying BT need to be more positive than it was, trying to imply it was last time. Ah well, I’m sure we’ll all be taken in by that.

    166. Dr Jim says:

      @jacksg

      I’ll tell you what you missed, which hand is giving and which hand is taking away?

      And what’s wrong with us deciding how much we raise and spend on what we want in our own country or could it be there’s another reason the Britnazis feel the need to control other countries and their economies

      Could it possibly be we’re very much wealthier than they keep telling us and they’re nicking it to fund a country that has not the economy to support itself because it depends on the buying and selling of other peoples money and the price of a brick

      Steel closures at Redcar, Overseas car manufacturers who if they withdrew from England would cause huge shockwaves throughout the whole of England

      Englands NHS really is in meltdown as are the Police because the numbers required are not even close to the right amount, England as a nation is teetering on the brink but Londons OK innit

      We’re talking about Osborne here the next Prime Minister and a real dyed in the wool Jackbooted Supremist, watch his speech and listen carefully to his manner at the Tory Conference this is a man on a mission make no mistake if he can he will stamp his Jackboots all over Scotland

      Think Ireland, and their experience with British honesty and justice and look what it drove them to
      Exactly what the British wanted, political breakdown and chaos, divide and conquer, they’re doing it right now in Syria fighting with the Americans a proxy war with the Russians for regional supremacy and gain

      Who cares about the Syrians, well what chance have they got when the Brits don’t care about what’s going on right here

      A last thought, don’t think about getting uppity in Jockistan because they’re moving the army in bit by bit just in case RAF Leuchars? Waterloo Barracks who are they kidding

    167. Les Wilson says:

      For those interested The Wind that Shook The Barley is on youtube, full film.
      Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBO9SAB8gyw

    168. heedtracker says:

      Laura Kuenssberg, BBC political editor torygirl has a hot flush over toryboy or whatever upper class women come over, when they get a touch of the vapours, swoons? 25 more years for Gideon!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34440479

      Blue tory turns red tory. All change maybe, Dugdale’s red tory now blue tory SLabour, they could have had it all.

      We really need a new toryboy colour to go with the new rUK flag, soon to replace all those giant union jacks they’ve wrapped themselves in this toryboy conference.

    169. Proud Cybernat says:

      People versus Carmichael CrowdFund has less than £900 to get it over the £100,000 mark. Another wee milestone and headline for tomorrow’s ‘The National’.

    170. Proud Cybernat says:

      …and the link if anyone wishes to help it get ovwer the £100,000 line:

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

    171. Kenny says:

      Presumably Neil Hay was unavailable for comment.

    172. Pam McMahon says:

      Dave Breveridge@3.30pm

      How about Scottish Currupt Union Media? Solves your problem with SCUM, but not ours.

    173. Iain More says:

      Well that is one way to reward the blue rinse Zimmer frame wielding Union Jack knicker wearing Better Together Rule Britannia Naw voters.

      It just confirms what most of us thought about the Tax Payers Alliance being nothing more than an English Tory/UKIP front.

    174. galacennalath says:

      “Think Ireland, and their experience with British honesty and justice and look what it drove them to
      Exactly what the British wanted, political breakdown and chaos, divide and conquer”

      Certainly the fighting against continued UK rule and the partition of North from South, were direct consequences of UK policies towards Ireland.

      However, we should never forget that after the Free State was declared, they began their nasty civil war. More people died in their civil war than previously fighting UK rule. Some estimates say twice as many. I get the distinct impression this civil war was in part stoked by London, they certainly armed the Free State forces with artillery.

      Comparisons with Ireland, and the UK’s divide and chaos policies there, certainly require sober thought. It’s almost a century on, and the EU, UN etc is watching, but to say we would be best to avoid the extremes of UK behaviour is an understatement.

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tony Little says: 5 October, 2015 at 11:40 am

      “Finally, should anyone from the SNP/YES side be reading, we MUST have some form of rebuttal unit to immediately dispel and challenge the lies and mendacity we read and hear from the Corporate Media and the BBC/ITV establishment mouthpieces. Time the gloves came off.

      Tony, the gloves have never been on. There is a, “UNIT”, that does rebut & dispel lies & mendacity.

      Like a newspaper, though, the reader has to go and get it or have it delivered to their desktop. It is just a click away and if used enough by non card carrying independence supporters I’m sure it would carry much more rebuttals : –

      http://www.snp.org/

      or even : –

      http://www.snp.org/media-centre

    176. Robert Peffers says:

      @

    177. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Ian Clark

      “Well said. If we keep using the term ‘corporate media’ (and ‘state broadcaster’?), then it might take off like the term ‘red tories’.”

      Absolutely, Ian. I would even go one step further and refer to the BBC as the ‘State-sponsored broadcaster’.

      So, in this ‘war of words’, we have:

      Corporate Media (i.e. the daily/weekly newspapers).
      State-sponsored broadcaster (BBC)
      State broadcaster (STV etc)
      Red Tories (Lab & SLab).

      Add to the list as you see fit, folks. Use these monikers far and often. It is all about perception and when people begin to perceive what these news sources are really all about, then we will begin to steer their influence and change minds.

    178. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      ‘Corporate media’, shortened to ‘corpmedia’, and pronounce ‘COREmedia. Works on more than one level.

      I’ll get me anorak…

    179. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers (SNP Media Centre)
      Even though I wasn’t a member during the Ref, I used to check that, and it was too bland. For instance there’d be an IFS report the Unionist media would distort even beyond its own press release distortion, and the SNP and ScotGov would say “We welcome the report from the IFS”.

      Well, I’d read the report in full and yes, they would be right to welcome it as it showed a healthy Scotland economically, once you looked into the actual data.

      But the IFS report executive summary and on top of that the press release would focus only on the bad bits, distorted at that, and the SNP / ScotGov never pointed that out.

    180. NN says:

      The “working people” (to use the politician’s current favourite term) in the UK and other countries over the years have been getting the shaft. Over time and with various changes in technology productivity goes up around six times, yet wages have remained stagnant, the value of money goes down, the debt burdens go up and the prices and costs of many key things (such as homes) goes up. The productivity and wealth is all being sucked away from those who are producing and the old bargains and fair shares of previous years have long been stolen away. Where was the promised returns from techology and productivity gains for the masses (it is of course the application and leadership to blame, rather than the tech)?

      Yet we still get the same old nonsense about “tightening our belts” and encouraging us to “work harder”. When will people realise that the scum floating to the top in the UK and elsewhere (both in government and other elites) will only be happy when you’re working in virtual slave (or indentured) labour? Their dream model of an economy is probably closer to the Nazi war production of wealthy owners and forced labour. It’s the only end point of this path if it continues onward for good.

    181. Robert Peffers says:

      @Les Wilson says: 5 October, 2015 at 11:45 am:

      “I agree with others the SNP must up their game, being nice does not work.”

      Being nice doesn’t work!!! So that’ll be why there is a slow but steady movement to the SNP throughout most of Scotland, will it?

      “We need hard hitting things to get the message across to pensioners.”

      I’m not at all sure we do. I’ve waited for over 60 years to see something like we have now. So a wee while more won’t be too hard to bear.

      What happens when you try to ram any political matter down people’s throats is that they become defensive of their old loyalties, (if they had any strong loyalties), and if they don’t they just switch off to politic altogether and thus vote, “Like thir faither voted”.

      If you don’t believe me then explain why the SNP just won a clutch of by-elections and the only one not going SNP did not go to any of the establishment parties but to an independent.

      Then we had an unheard of, almost, whitewash of unionist parties at the GE. With one of the Unionists now fighting a court case over his win, another quite likely to find himself involved as complicit in the cheating and the other one only elected as a Labour MP in a traditional Tory seat as the Traditional Tories mistakenly voted tactically to beat the SNP but ended up with a Labour MP.

      Whatever the independence movement, (not just the SNP), are doing, it is still winning voters, (and card carrying members).

      Never change a successful campaign and never interrupt your enemies when they are doing something wrong. And do not lower yourself to the tactics that are losing your opponent support.

      Scotland now has, perhaps, the most politically turned on electorate in the World right now and they seem to be not turned on to ANY of the Establishment parties.

      That, folks is a step forward, for in the past they turned off from one Establishment party but then got turned on to another Establishment party. Jeremy seems not to be turning them on this time and we only got Jeremy because the rank & File Labourites were looking for something better than they had. Looks like, in Scotland at least, Jeremy has already blown it.

    182. CameronB Brodie says:

      Heidegger pointed out that Hegel recommended using poetic language when explaining complex concepts to the less switched-on.

      HEIDEGGER AND THE NAZIS
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCnGxdhU6r8

      Will Podmore
      Deflection away from Marx’s anti-Semitism? Any comment?

    183. Les Wilson says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      Hi Robert, I enjoy your posts.

      Ref the SNP and uping their game, I advocate nothing adventurist, but have to say when you read the comments of the Tories and their media cohorts, it does make the blood boil.

      However, what I was meaning is that the coming elections are a chance to get back at them somewhat. That is why I think posters are a great idea prior to the elections. The SNP should ( in my view) use this type of thing to be noticed by voters, and plenty of them.

      Also a barrage across social media, for the same reasons.

      There is nothing wrong with their softly softly approach, it works, but we do need to be pointing out graphically what the British state is doing to our poorest. This would be one way of doing that.

      But if you sense frustration from me you would be right, but I realise I am not alone.

    184. Flower of Scotland says:

      Robert Peffers@4.55

      I agree absolutely with you. I noticed on Sunday at the Hope over Fear rally ( via Indylive) several shouts of UDI. It’s crazy! I think folk are very frustrated just now, but like you I’ve been waiting for Independence all my life, having been a member of the SNP for 50 years.

      I think we will have to go through some very tough times, but staying politically savvy, thanks to folk like Rev Stu, we will overcome eventually.

      I also think that the SNP are playing the slow game successfully but I would like to see Indy in my lifetime!

    185. CameronB Brodie says:

      Will Podmore
      Is this why you think Heidegger was a Nazi. Who funded that report you submitted to the EU?

      “The bourgeoisie Christian form of English Bolshevism is the most dangerous. Without it’s destruction the modern era will remain intact”. – Martin Heidegger

    186. yesindyref2 says:

      @Flower of Scotland
      At the HoF in Freedom Square there was a guy telling me with 56 MPs we should declare UDI, and why did the English and other foreigners get a vote in the Indy Ref?

      “Because they live here?”, I said. Couldn’t get away from him fast enough.

    187. Robert Peffers says:

      @handclapping says: 5 October, 2015 at 12:56 pm:

      “Oh Govan was the home of imports from way beyond that time.”

      I’m not too well up on details of Glasgow’s history but it strikes me that in Ireland the meaning of, “Plantation”, means something else again and the particular shade of blue on the noses of many of the natives may indeed indicate, “The Plantation”, as a district could hold much significance.

      The Plantation of Ulster, was the organised colonisation of Ulster with people from Great Britain in the reign of King James I & VI. Most colonists came from Scotland and England. The official plantation began in 1609. An estimated half a million acres (in the counties of Tyrconnell, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan, Coleraine and Armagh were taken from the Gaelic chiefs who fled Ireland (google the 1607 Flight of the Earls). The colonising of Ulster with loyalists was the percieved way to prevent more rebellion as it had been the region most resistant to English control during the preceding century.

      King James saw, “Plantation”, as a ,“civilising enterprise”, by settling Protestants in Ulster then a mainly Gaelic-speaking people of Catholic faith. The Lord Deputy of Ireland, “Arthur Chichester”, saw, “Plantation”, as a way to anglicise the Irish. The, “British tenants”, had to be English-speaking Protestants.

      However, some colonists were Catholic and many of the Scots spoke Gaelic although most Scots were Presbyterian and most of the English were Church of England. If ever there was a planned powder keg the Plantation of Ulster most certainly was one.

      See how our suppressed history can explain much of how our modern Scotland was shaped and influenced by our past. A country that doesn’t know its history doesn’t know who it is.

    188. Robert Peffers says:

      @caz-m says: 5 October, 2015 at 1:01 pm:

      “And I know the Clyde very well and there was never a Quay called “Pacific Quay” but people in power think it sounds better than “Plantation Quay”(Slave Trade).

      Wrong set of Plantations, caz-m, but you are correct it is because, “This suits BBC Scotland, always trying to hide the evils of the past, e.g. Jimmy Savile. history of Scottish sectarianism.

      You will note the present day strong links between the present Orange Order in Glasgow/Govan and and their Ulster originators still extant.

    189. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers 😉

      “He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” – George Orwell, 1984

    190. Rock says:

      The 70% elderly British nationalists who voted No should get what they voted for.

      Fortunately for them, Scotland has a caring SNP government which will not let them die due to winter cold.

      If they had any sense, they would vote SNP in 2016.

    191. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 5 October, 2015 at 1:53 pm:

      “So the BBC’s Scottish HQ is built in the heart of the community that was the focus for Scotland’s historic slave trade.”

      No CameronB, you have the wrong lot of Plantations – see my earlier posts. Plantations of Ulster and the historic and extant Govan links with the O/O.

    192. nodrog says:

      CameronB Brodie & Robert Peffers

      George Orwell was not to know that we , the public , control the internet.

    193. Robert Peffers says:

      @Chic McGregor says: 5 October, 2015 at 1:55 pm:

      “How about ‘Vested Media’ instead?”

      What about Vested Interest Media or VIM for short – or is that far too abrasive?

      I’ll get my coat!

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      Re. “Plantation Quay”. What jacksg says at 12:41pm.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/tories-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-2065540

      Scotland & the Slave Trade
      The Scots and English began to own land in the West Indies and the east coast of America in the 1600s. The land was cleared for tobacco and sugar plantations, and native people and indentured servants (with few rights) worked on them. Some Scots owned tobacco plantations. Following the 1707 Act of Union between Scotland and England, Scottish merchants joined the English trade routes including ‘the triangular trade’. In the 1700s, the sugar and tobacco industries grew, along with the slave trade…..

      ….By the late 1700s, one third of Jamaican plantations were owned by Scots. Some Scots liked to dress their slaves in their clan tartan. In 1790, the combined worth of exports and imports between the West Indies and Scotland totalled at least £50 million in today’s currency.

      http://www.nts.org.uk/learn/downloads/Scotland%20and%20the%20SlaveTrade.pdf

    195. CameronB Brodie says:

      nodrog
      That is the ‘game changer’.

    196. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      I tried linking to what lizg said at 12.41pm but the post disappeared.

      Re. Scotland and the slave trade. Would this not have centered around “Plantation Quay” (remained Pacific Quay)?

      Scotland & the Slave Trade

      The Scots and English began to own land in the West Indies and the east coast of America in the 1600s. The land was cleared for tobacco and sugar plantations, and native people and indentured servants (with few rights) worked on them. Some Scots owned tobacco plantations. Following the 1707 Act of Union between Scotland and England, Scottish merchants joined the English trade routes including ‘the triangular trade’. In the 1700s, the sugar and tobacco
      industries grew, along with the slave trade.

      The triangular trade turned people into commodities. This is how it worked:

      Goods such as cloth, copper and guns were shipped from Britain to West Africa to be sold or exchanged. There, captive Africans were bought …
      … and taken to the West Indies or America and sold as slaves.

      The enslaved people worked on the plantations, producing raw materials such as sugar, rum, tobacco and cotton, which were shipped to Britain. Two major trading ports were Port Glasgow and Greenock.

      By the late 1700s, one third of Jamaican plantations were owned by Scots. Some Scots liked to dress their slaves in their clan tartan. In 1790, the combined worth of exports and imports between the West Indies and Scotland totalled at least £50 million in today’s currency.

      http://www.nts.org.uk/learn/downloads/Scotland%20and%20the%20SlaveTrade.pdf

    197. Robert Peffers says:

      @jacksg says: 5 October, 2015 at 2:55 pm:

      “Read this and tell me if i am missing something?”

      About the only thing missing is that the Barnett Formula is the, (for the moment), Scotland’s funding and is actually the funds devolved to fund the devolved functions formerly operated and funded via the United Kingdom Ministries. This is the reason for the per-capita share out.

      However, that new sum comes about by reason of, “Barnett Consequentials”, and these can be due to either cuts, (negative), or extra funding, (Positive), changes to the UK funding for English functions.

      (Now here’s the catches.) First of all the three devolved countries people pay tax towards the UK funded infrastructure works in England and often these are NOT funded correctly by DEFRA funding but from such as Government Reserves that we also share in paying into but which do NOT have Barnett Consequentials attached.

      Yet all and every infrastructure project in Scotland must be met from within the Block Grant. As for positive Consequentials we always have to pay but for many English projects we pay our whack without Consequentials.

      For example the New London Sewerage System got £4.1 Billion funded from Government Reserves and there were no per capita Consequentials to our block grant.

      Thing is that after the new idea of Scotland getting tax raising powers they will cut the Barnett Formula or even do away with it. Now think what that means?

    198. louis.b.argyll says:

      Englands’ “political parties” and their friends, the Establishment Media,are in a state of political chaos. They are in decline, it’s plain to see.

      All trying to steal each-others normally unique selling points…

      ..They make their own democracy into a daily catfight.

      It’s nothing more than a distraction- they do not represent our future and Scotland should move on (purely in legal terms) as a nation.

    199. CameronB Brodie says:

      And another thing, didn’t Edward the Bruce knock lumps out of later-day Ulster, back in 1315, before being crowned High King of Ireland and giving Richard de Burgh a kicking at Coleraine? Would that not make the gallowglasses who stayed after the peace, “planters”?

    200. Cactus says:

      Hi Dave Beveridge, like your suggestion..

      “How about just calling them the SUM – Scottish Unionist Media?”

      Or what if we changed Scottish for British..? 🙂

      Here’s a video from 1984:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NvqPy92_C0

      Good question and discussion sesh Proud Cybernat, cheers.

    201. r baxter says:

      multinational corporate mafia. MCM.

    202. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 5 October, 2015 at 7:16 pm:

      “Re. Scotland and the slave trade. Would this not have centered around “Plantation Quay” (remained Pacific Quay)?”.

      Perhaps, CameronB, but the, “Plantation”, of Scots and English, (mainly Protestant), settlers in Ulster was began around 1606. This was the largest, “Plantation”,in Ireland and referred to the settling of Protestant Scots & English settlers into the mainly Celtic Catholics in old Ulster.

      I suppose it could be just a coincidence that Govan is the very heart of the Orange Order in Glasgow with the vast number of the old Govan residents still with Irish and Orange Order family connections still to this day, makes me opt for the name, “Plantation”, referring to the Ulster Plantation than to the West Indian ones.

    203. CameronB Brodie says:

      The more things change….

      http://www.nts.org.uk/Learn/adult_hidden_plant.php

    204. louis.b.argyll says:

      Indeed Mr Peffers, there are a lot of coincidences. All very convenient after the Empire..

    205. Cadogan Enright says:

      @Luigi 2.27

      Yes Indeed

      The National was great today

      Such a tonic when u are feeling a bit down

      Tea and a read, job done, happy again

    206. CameronB Brodie says:

      I just posted this in OT by mistake.

      I’m not discounting the point Robert is making but there is this…

      The Craigiehall estate near Govan was purchased in 1783 by the merchant and cashier of the Glasgow Arms Bank, John Robertson. Robertson and his brothers owned sugar and cotton plantations in the West Indies, and he may have changed the name of the estate to Plantation in recognition of his business interests (and the primary source of his fortune).

      Whatever the reason, it appears Govan would have been dominated by the “Plantation” estate. Does anyone know when the Plantation Quay was built?

      http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSB00308

    207. tartanarse says:

      How about Cumulative Unionist Media or even British Unionist Media.

      Media
      Of
      Foreign
      Origin?

    208. CameronB Brodie says:

      jacksg
      Apologies for getting your name wrong earlier. Thanks for your link re. the Plantation estate.

    209. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Robert Peffers.

      You dont have to look at the Ulster plantation when there was a siniste rplantation much closer to home.

      The aftermath of the Dunaverty Massacre, not taught in schools, was a major replacement of one culture with another foreign one.

      The town of Campbeltown (after the Puke of Argyll) was renamed from its real name Kinlochkilkerran.

      Now, the area of South Kintyre has a different accent than the surrounding areas, having had an Ayrshire Scots influence replacing the original inhabitants. Lots of farmers in the area with lowland surnames eagerly took part in the plantation. Dunaverty was one of the biggest massacres in Scottish history, and had been suppressed until recently.

    210. Chic McGregor says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      I think ‘Corporate’ and worse, ‘Business’ will increase the alienation of the business community.

      Indy should be an all encompassing movement IMO.

      Stick with ‘Establishment Media’, that covers owner’s bias, the influence of U politician’s of left or right bias or career fixated journos.

      @Bob

      Das ist gut aber OMO ist besser.

    211. Will Podmore says:

      Cameron Brodie asks if I have any comment on what he calls Marx’s anti-Semitism. This is a baseless slur. Marx was not anti-Semitic.
      Marx opposed Judaism, as he opposed all religious thinking and opposed all idealism in philosophy.
      All Marxists oppose idealism, a system of thought in which the objects of knowledge are held to be in some way dependent on the activity of the mind.

    212. CameronB Brodie says:

      Will Podmore

      The British journalist and historian Paul Johnson has argued that “The second part of Marx’s essay is almost a classic anti-Semitic tract, based upon a fantasied Jewish archetype and a conspiracy to corrupt the world.” The American historian, Gertrude Himmelfarb argued that it cannot be denied that in his essay On the Jewish Question, Marx expressed views that “were part of the classic repertoire of anti-Semitism.” And so it goes on. Noted expert on antisemitism, Robert Wistrich, declared, (Soviet Jewish Affairs, 4:1, 1974) “the net result of Marx’s essay [On The Jewish Question] is to reinforce a traditional anti-Jewish stereotype – the identification of the Jews with money-making – in the sharpest possible manner.” In his book, Political Discourse in Exile: Karl Marx and the Jewish Question , Dennis Fischman comments that in the second section of his essay, “Marx seems fairly to bristle with anti-Jewish sentiments.” Even the anti-Zionist Joel Kovel, whose political views I normally have no time for, has said:

      By anti-Semitism I mean the denial of the right of the Jew to autonomous existence, i.e., to freely determine his/her own being as Jew. Anti-Semitism therefore entails an attitude of hostility to the Jew as Jew. This is an act of violence, addressed to an essential property of humanity: the assertion of an identity, which may be understood as a socially shared structuring of subjectivity. To attack the free assumption of identity is to undermine the social foundation of the self. Judged by these criteria, OJQ [On the Jewish Question] is without any question an anti-Semitic tract – significantly, only in its second part, “Die Fähigkeit.” No attempt to read these pages as a play on words can conceal the hostility which infuses them, and is precisely directed against the identity of the Jew.

      http://www.philosophersmag.com/index.php/reflections/30-karl-marx-s-radical-antisemitism

    213. Will Podmore says:

      Well Cameron, you have certainly proved that these professional anti-communist liars assert that Marx’s essay was anti-Semitic.
      But you haven’t proved that Marx was anti-Semitic.

    214. CameronB Brodie says:

      Will Podmore
      Yawn.

    215. Will Podmore says:

      Is that the best answer you can come up with?
      So your case falls ….

    216. Calum MacKay says:

      Do these people not have elderly relatives?



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