Today in Brexit
Posted on
January 23, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Then:
And now:
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Absolutely nuts.
Absolutely true to form, though!
The Scottish Government will have a role in post-Brexit trade negotiations. We’ll be part of the EU telling them how far to bend over.
The dutiful lapdogs performing tricks for their Westminster masters.
Plus ça change.
Sadly, all too easy to believe.
Yes – and I’ve used it today and I don’t f******g care if they don;t like it.
Of course Tory MPs from Scotland don’t want the SG to play a part in future trade negotiations.
Their mission is to undermine the SG and ideally destroy it. They want direct rule from their beloved WM!
They want Scotland to be no more than a quaint tartan, bagpipes, and shortbread bedecked region of their Greater England.
So nothing new here!
Does everyone who gave them their vote agree with this vision? Almost certainly not, though quite a few will!
(Just posted this on the last thread)
The Conservatives always were against devolution.
Odd eh! The morons.
‘Sources say…’
Plus Mundell claiming that devolution was a function of EU membership, and following Brexit “changes” are to be expected.
The writing is on the wall – every 2014 No voter should be considering Scotland’s future.
Let’s not forget Kezia Dugdales role in this. As SLab branch manager, she encouraged tactical voting “To keep the SNP out”. Result = 13 Tory MPs.
Why?
And why announce?
Just a bunch of Evel psycho bastards trying to destroy the Scottish economy. Within 2+ years they can all be voted out. Sanctioning and starving people. Killing off the elderly who vote for them. Destroying the UK/world economy and their own Party.
Thank goodness for the SNP Gov standing up for Scotland.
Tories and Labour in Scotland really ought to be renamed the Screw Scotland Party and the Sod Scotland Party, since they’re intent on shafting us from both sides.
It looks like Ruth is taking the full 39weeks maternity leave, not a sight, not a sound of her, though when the Brit gov put the troops on the streets to ‘control’ the food lines and then ‘quell’ the food riots, Im sure she’ll be there as colonel directing.. something.
More comedy from Comedy Central
They’re Tractors (pre-emptive self censoring there)
[…] Wings Over Scotland Today in Brexit Then: And now: Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland […]
They needn’t worry their pretty little heads – and they are pretty little. Theresa May tells lies. She has absolutely no intention of allowing Scotland any influence whatsoever over what she is doing. In fact, she is planning to completely neuter the Scottish Government or abolish it outright.
I believe to collective name is a thicket of Torries.
Oh good grief!
Well? They’ve really let folk know where they stand with that statement.
The Scotsmin’s core readers will be delighted to hear this, obsequious wanks love to know their place first thing in the morning.
Oh there’s no meeting at No10 tonight either, that’s cancelled
Nicola Sturgeon will be distraught
They probably don’t see conflict in the two stories highlighted. They will genuinely believe the wee northern region of Greater England is best served through ‘their parliament’ in London.
In their perverted minds they will be looking after their idea of what Scotland’s interests are by moving ever closer to a single unified state, centrally administered from London, and increasingly in the cultural image of SE England.
Most Scot’s disagree with that! Our job is to make sure all who reject the Tory vision get out and vote YES in IndyRef2. Because make no mistake, there are only two possible futures on offer!
Yet another reason for wanting Scottish Independence: To create an environment wherein the thoughts, opinions and actions of political-maladroits remain in the obscurity of the private-sphere.
It seems there isn’t a level of ignominy to which these vile backstabbers won’t descend.
Most people are sadly unaware of the true nature of their betrayal of those they were elected to serve, because of the shelter they get from the complicit media, aided and abetted as they always are by their collaborators in NorthBritLab.
We sorely need a campaign very soon to bring such issues out into the daylight for all to see.
Gizzit says:
Yup, and like everything else about Brexit, they won’t be for the betterment of ordinary folks!
Devolution never did fit into the Tory political model of rule by the elite for the elite.
Cubby
The king of Paranoia,,,Ozzy Osbourne.
The site lunatic.
Change the record.
Ah but they are all ‘ proudscotbuts’.
2014
“Stay with us”
“We love you Scotland”
“one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world”
“as close to federalism as is possible”
2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
“Shut it Scotland”
I love that phrase: “post brexit trade talks”
The uk will be on WTO rules as there appears zero chance of a Withdrawal agreement, so no transition arrangement etc.
As we know, any trade deals with anyone, almost always means increased migration in both directions. of workers, yet WM have escaping FoM as a red line in brexit talks, only to have to make a deal on FoM with any WM-EU trade deal!!
Then of course, WM has a huge and rather obvious problem with ANY trade talks post brexit.
If, as expected, Scotsgov calls an indyref “in the next few weeks”-(Nicola Sturgeon) then any and all Scottish assets which will revert to full Scottish autonomy post indy, are OFF the WM negotiating table in all trade deal talks.
WM cannot bargain away assets they may not control post indyref/Yes vote.
So WM cannot even begin trade talks with anyone, until the Scottish indy question has been revisited and resolved one way or another.
WM will be desperate to start trade deal talks, so i do not believe WM can afford to try delay the absolutely inevitable indyref2.
Scotsgov know this i am sure, and will make that very clear when announcing indyref2.
As i keep saying, we ARE winning.
Constant provocation is a risky game to play in the hope of creating another Northern Ireland to solve Westminsters problems but they’re sure having a good go at trying
Hopefully,they will be gone soon.Disloyal even to the PM who got them elected,never mind those whole cast the ballots.All forgotten at the first hint of cash.
There again,they are tories.
So, let me get this right:
“We are Scottish Tories”,
“We are 2nd class BritNats”,
“We are Westminster’s lapdogs, to be screwed with if and when required”.
“And we will never be anything else, because we like it like that!”
Wot a cringe-fest. 🙂
*who
@Brian Powell,
by law maternity pay after 6 weeks is £145 a week,
she did earn over £7000 (rough estimate) a week by being MSP and leader of a Party,
hopefully, like the rest of UK new parents have to, she is able to survive on £145 a week.
K1 says:
23 January, 2019 at 10:20 am
“one of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world”
I almost forgot that little beaut. Wot a keeper. 🙂
@Luigi
At least one of them is a carpet bagger resident in Swindon. The word ‘Scottish’ can apply in no form, or meaning.
He is a Tory and a 1st class BritNat. Pure lobby fodder, though.
Basturts. They’re behaving like the Labour Party.
A quick refresher from 2014.
twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1087854929841139718
Worked out well then.
Try that link again.
link to twitter.com
The Colonial Scottish Govt took it to court to try and uphold the colonial devolution Sewel convention.
The Colonial Scottish Govt took it to court to try and uphold the Colonial Scottish Parliament’s Continuity Bill.
Article 50 was taken to court to find the answer as to whether UK Parliament could unilaterally cancel Brexit.
The Colonial Scottish Govt has never asserted Scotland’s national sovereignty in a court.
They Colonial Scottish Govt never held a Scottish Euro-Ref to establish the sovereign will of the people of Scotland.
They never legally challenged Brexit that has been going ahead without the consent of the Kingdom of Scotland’s sovereign people’s consent.
Why not?
The Colonial Scottish Govt have not requested a S30 to establish whether it will be refused or not or how long it would take. They don’t need to hold it right away, just lay the groundwork.
Why haven’t they done this?
Instead the SNP push for another UK-wide “People’s vote” that implies Scotland is a region of a UK UNITARY STATE.
At least we know the score with the Tories: Scotland is a colony of the UK.
Under Ms Sturgeon’s “leadership”, it seems the SNP tacitly agree.
One of the most devolved parliaments in the world
That would be the Faroe Islands with a population of 50.000
and better broadband than the entire UK no weapons of mass destruction and amazingly nobody’s invading them, on the contrary people seem to like them fine and there aren’t any folk sleeping on the streets in poverty
How do they do it when all THEY have is fish, see Phantom Power films and you’ll find out
As JM Barrie famously said:
“There are few more impressive sights in the world than a Scotsman on the make.”
And that lot are certainly on the make. Their mistake, however, was, in being personally on the make, they tried to make bigger fools of the Scots voters who were daft enough to put them there, and, for that, they will surely pay a severe price, come the revolution and FREEDOM.
Never trust a Tory, lying is just part of their mantra.
Ruthie’s bakers dozen were never ever going to stand up and protect Scotland’s interests.
So no one should be disappointed at their voting record or their behaviour at Westminster.
As an aside I found an anon letter writer who has responded to my letter from the previous week in my Local newspaper the East Fife mail,amusing.
He/she accuses me of blaming the Tory government’s austerity for causing the financial problems of the Scottish Government.
And goes on to state as the Scottish government has tax raising powers it should raise taxes.
And that its easier to blame the Tories for austerity than bite the bullet and raise taxes.
Davidson could be drawing part of her Holyrood salary. Depending on the organisation they can make up maternity remuneration.
Swinson is never stopped moaning about terms and conditions. Pairing/poxy arrangement. Threatened anarchy while sanctioning and starving people to death. Facilitating the EU Ref. Putting students into debt and poverty with higher fees. Elected to protect NHS/Education they cut both and welfare. Totally unecessary. ‘Austerity’ ‘ that costs more. Any threats to their rights and privileges they never stop complaining. People are sick of the sight of them. Two faced lying hypocrites.
How people can vote for them needs some explaining. Some people never learn.
There was a time, a long time ago, when Scottish Tories actually did stand up for Scotland. Some even appeared to have some scruples! Still didn’t vote for them, but I wish we had some of their ilk now.
Wonder where Carroll had disappeared to? Even less readership than the Guardian. The MSM tanking even more. Gannet/Newquest being taken over by a Hedge Fund that gets rid of non producing titles. Gordon, Hutcheon and Leask will be out. Without a lose bail out. Like the Scotsman.
A MSM loss.
Pre dick text Carrell
Feelings mutual!
I certainly do not wish that pack of braying donkeys to have any involvement in Scotland.
Anyone know how we can achieve that? 😀 : D
Macart says:
23 January, 2019 at 10:36 am
Try that link again.
Sorry, you can’t view or download this file at this time.
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Can’t have that now, can we
I reckon it’s not so much that they want England to decide for Scotland it’s more a case that they are protecting those such as the five families that control nearly all Scottish fishing and other people who really do not want the Scottish government changing the low or no business tax regime upheld by Westminster and the tax haven hideaways upheld by Westminster.
It is those people who bankroll the conservatives in Scotland.
A Richt bunch o total Cunts.
Hope they choke on their Haggis neeps and tatties on Friday.
Rabbie would have said aye.
The quizmasters drive tractors.
Come on tae fuck Scotland. We need the fuck out of here.
( money in the swear jar and apologies to oor younger readers)
Had it up to fucking here wae these pish bags.
It is as plain as daylight that the intention of the Conservatives, post-Brexit, is to abolish Scotland altogether. They are not Unionists in the old sense of the word, and they have no respect whatsoever – not even notional – for the legal foundations on which the UK has always rested and on which it was founded. Immediately Brexit takes place the abolitionists will be in full swing. Believing their goal to be in sight, they will not hesitate to swing the axe. They will set to work with a vengeance. Indeed, with mighty vengeance.
They have been at it for quite some time. When the present Secretary of State for Scotland (or whatever his title now is) said that Scotland had been abolished by the Act of Union, he meant it. And he wasn’t just speaking on his account – he was stating the confirmed view of his leader and his cabinet colleagues, indeed of the Tory Party generally. Doing their bidding, as he always does, lapdog that he is.
The intention is not just to pretend that Scotland has been incorporated into England in the way that Wales was – and not just to act as if that untruth was a reality. The intention is actually to sign, seal and deliver that giant fib by putting it as fast as possible onto the statute book, in a way that they think can never be revoked.
They won’t even have the decency to bide their time. Seeing the prize within their grasp they will go for it immediately. Like a hungry lion pouncing on its prey. Their lips already slavering at the sight of the spoil, they won’t be able to wait. Exactly as happened with EVEL immediately after they squeaked their deceit-ridden victory 2014, in the independence referendum.
It has often been said that the people really driving the demand for Brexit, moreover in the most unscrupulous ways, are those with millions and even billions stashed away in off-shore tax havens. If so, Brexit surely isn’t enough for them. With the money involved around Scotland’s shores, don’t you think the abolition of Scotland is just as important to them? If they have their hands anywhere near that till, they are not going to let the till be taken off them by some namby-pamby democratic process or other. They’ll be in for the kill right away, to kill that posibility off once and for all.
The abolition of Scotland is not a sideline for these people. It is a central plank in the hull of the good ship Brexit. It is one of the key things Brexit is all about, and it always has been. If we think otherwise we are being naive, and underestimating the ferocity of the enemy.
Even if we had won in 2014. don’t think for a minute that the opponents of independence woul just have rolled over. The negotiations would have been very hard indeed. Still more so now.
Within the European Union the strategy was to control Scotland – and undermine the original UK Union – by pretending that not only Northern Ireland and Wales but also Scotland were simply ‘regions’ of the UK. And, of course, to continue pumping the old propaganda line according to which the EU, like the rest of the world, was supposed to believe that the UK and England were synonyms. As if the two terms meant exactly the same thing.
For the last two years we have not sufficiently emphasised the integral European-ness of the Scottish nation. Nor have we sufficiently emphasised the enormous benefits we obtain from being members of the EU. Or the positive role we could and should be playing in it, as many of its smaller membr states do, not least Ireland. We have not done enough to educate people about how the EU actually works as a political entity, and allowed it to be seen only in economic terms. That, to my mind, was a typically British / English rather than Scottish way of looking at the matter.
The abolitionists don’t just hate Scotland as a political entity, they also hate her very European-ness, and the potential which that European-ness carries with it. Instead of looking at the EU only in economic terms, concentrating on its economic effects on us, we should also be playing up its importance and potential as a political entity. This is a stage on which we want to be real players.
The purely economic approach has always been that of British-English-UK politicians. Especially on the Tory benches. Even most of those of them who were in favour of EU membership tended to see the EU only in terms of a profit and loss account. They thought only in terms of trade, not political benefits. The kind of cash register view of politics that the USA is now manifesting more blatantly than ever, with the supposed Master of the Art of the Deal commanding the ship.
This is the approach which combined with visceral English nationalism and an outdated mis-perception of economic realities in the modern world to create the madness that is Brexit. In no way should Scotland be imitating it. We should be very aware – and very wary – of the fact that the English-inspired attack on Europe, the rejection of membership of the EU and the abolition of Scotland are all of a piece. They belong to the same matrix of ideas and, underneath, as a political movement, they are inspired by the same unnamed and unscrupulous gangsters whose only concern is for the spoils. Both the spoils they have already accumulated, and the further spoils they seek to gain.
It is time to play up our European-ness, our ‘Scotland-in-Europe’ identity and policy, and our radical difference from a UK that is now defunct because the abolitionists have themselves abolished it. Every time they talk about ‘our precious Union’ they do not mean the old UK which people of my generation were brought up in. They have either deliberately abolished that one in their minds and banished it from their imagination, or else they never knew it. What they are referring to is a ‘new UK’ which they have conjured up out of nothing, which has no legal or constitutional basis, has never existed before, is on the verge of being freed from any European control … and is about to be unleashed in tooth and claw on an unsuspecting Scotland immediately Brexit is accomplished. With a vengeance.
And with vengeance.
Let’s not be naive. Time for us all to wake up. And also to realise that the attack on our European identity is also an attack on the reality of Scotland, and on our eventual and coming independence.
Speculative conjecture warning…. If Scotland already was an Independent country, precisely where on the spectrum of National allegiance would these individual’s have placed themselves?
To sacrifice your own nation’s interests for another country I think puts you in Vichy France territory at best, but even that infidelity was involuntary and under threat of arms. That cap doesn’t quite fit.
They haven’t taken up arms against their own country, nor sought insurrection by marital force beyond propaganda and indoctrination. What territory is that? Tokyo Rose? Not really. She sought to demoralise her enemy. Hanoi Hannah? Same thing. William Joyce Lord Hawhaw? US born anglo-Irish.
I know, I know, I want to restrain myself, -you’re going too far Breeks. I am going too far with such comparisons, but yet, there they are, deliberately and it must be said, shamelessly seeking to forfeit the interests of my country. So what quality redeems them and spares them from outraged derision?
I begin to understand the mindset and why these people pedal the myth that Scotland was extinguished in the 18th Century, because acknowledging Scotland as a potent nation puts them and their actions in a bleak and barren no-man’s-land… and that is me being kind.
The British/English Establishment wasn’t so prissy. It framed Scottish Jacobites as (t)ractors and rebels, when they were actually loyal to the legitimate monarch. William Wallace and a whole stack of Scottish patriots have been hung, drawn and quartered as the punishment for (t)reason, when in fact they merely defended what was legitimate and sovereign from foreign invasion and subjugation. (T)reason? Not by definition, no.
What a privileged bubble of delusion these modern Scottish Tories enjoy. Deny history, convention and unpalatable Constitution, and suck at the teat of our oppressors. That’s quite a job description.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to see them tarred and feathered. I wouldn’t want to hurt a hair on their head. I would even excuse these infidelities in an amnesty. Let them keep their shields. But I would not be so charitable towards the Propagandists and manipulators who are responsible for this long term indoctrination of my compatriots.
What you see in Nicola or Mike Russell arguing the toss with Mundell, or Davidson, or Carlaw isn’t Scotland versus Scotland denier. Look past the argument into the murky shadows beyond, where the British Establishment puppet master doesn’t want you to look – because that is the axis where we are divided and conquered.
In “my” Scotland, freedom off speech and even controversial expression would be their precious entitlement. But holding positions in government? Maybe we need a wee pledge of allegiance filter before you can sit in our wee Parliament.
Still… we’re not an independent country. So the game continues…
Why would they do this. An Election is a distinct possibility. Campaigning on a blatant anti Scottish policy will only appeal to the rabid right wingers.
A post Christmas gift imo.
And there you have it. This is what ‘Scottish’ TORIES do. It is what they have always done. Fighting AGAINST Scotland, instead of fighting FOR Scotland.
No surprise they are also best of chums with British Labour in Scotland. Like two peas in a Scotland-hating pod, the red tories and the blue tories.
No idea why those people literally despise their own country so much.
“the people voted for the Tory Party and therefore they voted for the decisions made by the Party” to paraphrase Ross Thomson..Tory MP and frothing mouth imbecile.
Fair play to Scottish Tories though..they do absolutely nothing positive for anyone bar themselves, their output consist of cute smiling photoshoots and Union denials of Scottish requests and yet folk in prosperous areas within Scotland seem to love them…’Quite a boast’ as Vic Reeves would say on a Big Night Out.
Sadly crazy but true and I doubt anything will change, especially when Big Mooth Ruth charges back into the “I can shout dead loud and condescendingly” arena of Scottish and British politics to lead the Union defence.
Well I may be wrong but – That reversal of things looks very much like Conservative and Unionist Party panic stations to me.
Mind you the reality is that the unionist parties are just one big, (unhappy), unionist/Britnat family at Westminster and they have always been so.
“Pre dick text ”
Nice one!
@McBoxheid
Ayup! Seems Phantom Power have attracted quite a traffic log jam. Probably best just to play from the twitter page.
OT
Previous thread I posted a link to Sturgeon as witness to a HoC Select Committee in 2013, but didn’t make the page numbers clear in a long pdf.
It’s pages 114 to 130 of the pdf (which corresponds to ev 48 to ev64 which are the evidence page numbers).
link to publications.parliament.uk
There’s two points to this. One is the really strong performance of Sturgeon, considering some people want her to stand down. She certainly hasn’t disimproved since then.
The second is it sets out (ScotGov) positions on the EU, Euro, Schengen, NATO and foreign policy that are still valid, with the possibility that the EU one is even stronger because of Brexit. Also the succession of states thing. Things may have changed a little but absent anything to the contrarty, it stands.
Coco on the meth pipe again today.
A steaming pile of contradictory, fatuous s**te, as is the norm from a wannabee rock acolyte.
……
Coco says: “Colonial scottish government”
(Legally impossible construct there, coco).
…….
Coco says:”Scottish Govt never held a Scottish Euro-Ref to establish the sovereign will of the people of Scotland”
(Emm..The sovereign Scottish people voted REMAIN by 62% – 38%, coco, that IS the established Sovereign Will of the legally sovereign Scots people.
If you understood sovereignty, you would know that basic fact).
……..
Coco says: “They never legally challenged Brexit that has been going ahead without the consent of the Kingdom of Scotland’s sovereign people’s consent, Why not”?
(Probably too busy preparing the ground to enact the MANDATE for an indyref, triggered by the WM gov behaving as you stated in your comments).
………..
Coco says: “Instead the SNP push for another UK-wide “People’s vote” that implies Scotland is a region of a UK UNITARY STATE”
(Utter drivel, coco, the Scotsgov have stated that their support for a PV is absolutely predicated on Scotland getting what we vote for this time, and that means if Scotland votes Remain again, and England voted leave, and leave wins again, then Scotland must remain IN the EU.
If that is not agreed, SNP support for a PV will be withdrawn and we will vote against one.
That is the complete opposite of your gibbering pish).
……….
Trying to be a poor copy of your pal rock ain’t working for you, despite your increasingly repetitive copy and pasting of your wee “colonial scottish government” catchphrase into ever addled post you make.
Coco is a perfect fit for you.
Luigi@10.26am
“……2nd class Britnats.”
They are imo not even 2nd class Britnats.
1st class Britnat – English establishment super rich Britnats.
2nd class Britnat – ordinary English.
3rd class Britnat – Welsh Scots and Irish.
Of course all British suffer from the delusion that all Brits are equal.
Jezza@ 10.16am
The King of insults – Jezza. I think it is your record that is stuck. Just insult after insult. You don’t even have the imagination to vary your insults. Poor show Jezza.
So where are you a member of the SNP Jezza. Surely that should be a simple question for you to answer. Do they teach you to use mental illness as an acceptable weapon to insult people in your SNP branch?
if the turkeys get their way
no deal brexit
no holyrood
no jobs for scot tories / unionists
turkeys
These people are not Scottish Conservatives, they are British Conservatives elected in Scotland. They are a collection of Brits and Vichy Jocks on the make.
Mostly they were voted for by Brits, Vichy Jocks and Scots afflicted by the cringe. The same applies to the British red and yellow tories.
That is the reality and by publicly expressing their position at this time I think they do us a favour.
Cubby
Are you going to continue to harass me all day again???
Change the record Ozzy.
Why do you want to know which branch of the SNP I am a member of???
Are you going to attend a meeting and then you could come on here armed with some knowledge of what Scottish Independence is all about.
Cubby, or is it Ozzy,,,Paranoia ???
Dr Jim says:
23 January, 2019 at 10:06 am
Oh there’s no meeting at No10 tonight either, that’s cancelled
Nicola Sturgeon will be distraught””
….
Especially so if she had bought the tonic to go with the Gin she gave Mrs May the last time she went to No 10.
For the record, Jezza, it is YOU harassing Cubby.
You have used a constant stream of offensive posts to do so, when all Cubby had done, is ask you what branch of the SNP you are in.
I am in the Grangemouth branch, there, no big deal at all.
Perhaps you are not even in Scotland and cannot think of a Scottish town ? Who knows huh ?
But it is not even about that, is it, it is about you wanting to cause divisions while refusing to answer any challenge to the rubbish you spout.
So you resort to abuse.
With that first question at PMQs today, surely the odious Stephen Kerr has made a fair pitch for the Thickest Politician in Scotland crown.
The Tory High Heid Yins: “We need a proud Scot, but, to brown-nose Theresa at the start of PMQ – who wants the gig?”
Kerr: “Please sir, please sir, Me sir, Me sir, I’ll do it.”
Stephen Kerr has the first question at PMQs, rabble-rousing against another IndyRef. The tone has been set for the FM meeting, hostile, paranoid and fearful.
Ian Blackford has to counter this.
Geeo
I think you call it,,,mind your own fuckin business.
The lunatic Cubby has harassed me for two days now.
I know he is one of your troll hunting buddies,,,but please,,,pick on somebody else.
May deflecting attacking the SNP and Jeremy Corbin, usual guff from this intransigent Tory blaw bag.
PMQ’s.
Stirling tory Steven Kerr shreeking about nicola sturgeon and indyref2, demanding that treeza says NO to ANY indyref for Scotland.
Interestingly,and perhaps, tellingly, treeza done the usual 2014/Decisive No vote/had yer referendum patter, but she NEVER SAID she would actually BLOCK either a S.30 or Indyref.
I am making it my business, jezza, and your comments have been reported to the man in charge of this site to decide on the comments you made and their acceptability for his site.
They are but colonial clerks, serving the interest of their true masters in westminster. Mundesley is only the Governor who
Cubby and geeo
If you two continue to harass me again I will be putting in a complaint about the two of you.
I know the two of you are Troll Hunting buddies,,,but pick on someone else.
Change the record,,,paranoia has run it’s course.
Re Faroes being a devolved Parliament.
Faroes isn’t devolved in the same sense.
The last constituional act with Denmark (2005)is unambiguous in stating
“This law is based on an agreement between the Governments of the Faroe Islands and Denmark as equal partners.”
The only equality The Scottish Parliament has with Westminster is the ability to be treated equally dismissively and patronizingly by red tory or blue.
Well, after the exchanges between the Maybot and Stephen Kerr and then with Ian Blackford, Nicola would be as-well staying at home today.
She’s going to to be telt: “Now is not the time,” and “No, no, no to Independence.”
Time to tell her: “Cheerio Hen, we’re off – Section 30 or no.”
We see you. (You know who you are).
We see your little ploy.
It won’t work.
jezza says:
23 January, 2019 at 11:54 am
Cubby
“”Are you going to continue to harass me all day again???””
jezza.
Your first post on this particular thread was at 10.16am in which you wrote
“”Cubby
The king of Paranoia,,,Ozzy Osbourne.
The site lunatic.
Change the record.””
…
When you posted this Cubby had NOT made any contribution to this thread. Also your post had nothing to do with the subject of the article.
It was in other words nothing more than a gratuitously offensive post that was in no way relevant to the subject in hand nor a response required to anything that had gone before.
In short, an attempt to disrupt.
Cubby please ignore him.
Are you still calling them tractors?
Let’s test it: ("Tractor" - Ed)s.
I don’t use the word lightly.
Jeezo! Anybody watching Politics Today and PM’s Questions? FIRST on his feet was Stephen Kerr Scottish Tory MP exuberantly shouting his head off about the great Union and castigating Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP and IndyRef2. Cue big Treeza to respond with ….. the majority of Scots don’t want Independence. Has she had her meeting with Nicola yet, if not that makes for a good start?
Our two resident lovebirds resume their spat.
Do us a favour guys and find something else to do.
PLLLEEAASSEE. !
Teresa May as usual lying about Scotland and its economy being tied in knots to the UK. Better Together, no Scotland is better apart from this English governance.
Re: Ruthie suddenly reappearing after her Maternity leave! Somebody jokingly said she would be as a Colonel in the state of Emergency Army.
Sadly I can actually see that happening, hundreds of photo opportunities would beckon.
Smiling Ruthie distributing “k rations” to the grateful citizenry.
Colonel Ruthie doggedly leading the relief convoy across the boarder, aid from our English allies.
Ruthie at the side of the newly appointed commander in chief (Scotland) telling of their plans to bring stability to the region.
Bubbly Ruthie perched on the back of a Land Rover distributing plastic toys to poor kids on Christmas Day.
Shots of her eating Xmas dinner with the “common man” in some government owned tent city.
Oh how the BBC would love this scenario!
Mmm, Fred, dee, Indy2, Robin, Collie, Danny and now jezza, plus another one who hasn’t posted here for some time but might return. Multiple monikers, same “person”.
Cubby and geeo
They would happily hound somebody on here until midnight rather than stay on topic and post constructive comments.
It’s what they do.
They are in their glory when they think they are playing to to the audience,,,when really all they ste doing is upsetting the thread and being a real pain in the arse to everyone on here.
Paranoia seems to be spreading amongst the troll hunting community.
Cant believe people are shocked that the “Scottish” tories are howling threats.
As far as i am concerned they can howl as much as they want every time they say no no no more people say yes yes yes.
Threats are all they have left,laugh at the clowns and remember when we destroyed the red tories it was to force the blue tories out from behind their red tory shield and stick them in our hot seat so we could do to them what we did to the red tories expose them.
Going by latest figures it would seem that we are having success in that goal 🙂
Aye we are we are surely going to get our freedom with all these postings I am sure Westminster must be terrified ???
Macart says:
23 January, 2019 at 11:18 am
@McBoxheid
Ayup! Seems Phantom Power have attracted quite a traffic log jam. Probably best just to play from the twitter page.
———————
Aye, I did just that.
Cheers Macart
We should all remember the horrors of the Holocaust and the millions killed says Theresa May and indeed we should but of course the amount of people killed by the Nazis pales into insignificance to the millions of people killed by successive British governments in their pursuit of Empire building
I won’t list the countries but Scotland was among them
These people wish that Scotland were as irrelevant to the UK as they are. They offer nothing to Scotland and we should offer nothing to them.
@Wull 11:03am
“The abolitionists don’t just hate Scotland as a political entity, they also hate her very European-ness”
Worth bearing in mind that whatever ‘triple lock mandates’ we perceive holding a referendum to have, the existence of Holyrood as Scotland’s Parliament with its devolved powers, has a damn sight more than that. Cross party and across the political spectrum of Scotland’s populace, Holyrood is if nothing else, the ‘settled will of the Scottish people’
Now it goes without saying that has been traduced with some ( though not all) of the Unionist parties members supporting the stripping of Holyroods devolved powers – What is Scotland going to be more outraged at, the impunity with which its parliament is treated, or being dragged out of the EU?
How big is the faction which both seeks to abolish Holyrood & despises the EU? When the next Independence question is put before them, more than a quarter of Scots voters beyond the core Unionist abolitionists, must be prepared to sacrifice Holyrood for independence to fail. A majority will be required who both despise the EU & are abolitionists (of Holyrood)
Therein lies the hope for Independence.
I think it’s improbable that the overwhelming majority in Scotland who support Holyrood would suddenly vote for its demise. Naturally that is predicated on them understanding that is precisely what is being agitated for!
That is my campaigning message currently.
Stephen Kerr MP at PMQs today:
From the Herald online
“”Conservative MP Stephen Kerr quizzed the Prime Minister over the prospect of a second Scottish independence referendum at PMQs
The Stirling MP dubbed the UK the “most successful political union that the world has ever known” as he addressed Theresa May in the Commons. “”
It goes on in truly bleak inducing fashion but I’ll spare you that.
Mrs May thinks the last thing we need is a second indy ref.
No one can accuse Severin Carrell of being a ‘liar’ and an enemy of Scotland, when he prefixes an announcement that Ruth Davidson is ‘leader’ of the 11 Blue Tory MP’s,and instructs them to champion Scotland in defiance of her best buddy ‘Big T’.
The Dead Tree Scrollers need only prefix their misdirections with the weasel words ‘Sources say’, and they can then write any lie, distortion or threat they like.
‘Sources close to the FM say that she has webbed feet and slurps audibly when eating Scotch Broth’.
Davidson is not the ‘leader’ of all things Blue Tory in Scotland.
She is a Branch Office Manager, and has no say in how WM MPs behave or vote in English Parliamentary business.
But our Dead Tree Scrolls hacks have to portray her, and That Dick Leonard, and Wee Willie Winkie as having as much political clout in their English parties as NS has in the SNP.
They are portrayed as political ‘leaders’ when they are merely mumbling grunts who could not hack it in London.
Sturgoen is the ‘leader’ of grown up internationally recognised Party, with MPs and MSPs protecting Scotland both Up Here and Down There.
Davidson is off on Mat Leave and good luck to her; but she hasn’t been missed, has she?
In political terms as far as the ‘UK’ is concerned, Davidson, Rennie, and Leonard are nobodies’, whereas Sturgeon is known respected and feared in England/Britain/ the UK…
Davidson is Mundell’s plaything, not the other way ’round.
The Baker’s Dozen Blue Tories Up Here are not ‘Scottish’. They are at best, ‘Anglos’, or ‘English’, because everything they do and say is to further the wishes of an English Oligarchy.
Ross Thomson is de facto English, and the Blue Tory universal resistance to the Scottish Govt having any say in trade talks post Brexit confirms what we all knew;
Britain/UK is ‘England’.
It was said that if you couldn’t make it as a lawyer in London you joined the Civil Service Solicitors Branch.
The elephants’ graveyard for thick lawyers.
It shows.
A soon as I see the words ‘reasonable’ or ‘normally’, somewhere is a Brit Nat Government Statement, I know that some wee backroom law clerk has drafted a ‘shaft Scotland’ clause.
The Scottish Government has quite rightly dismissed the warm fuzzies from Whitehall that Scotland would somehow be involved in post Brexit Trade Deals as yet more warm pish cascading all over us from the WM latrines.
@Legerwood 12:23am
I thought that as well as I was scrolling through, but couldn’t be arsed checking. Ta.
When I said “another one”, there’s more than one. I’d say the reason WOS earned a reputation for “vile cybernattery” was mostly if not all, false flag trolls way back to 2013 and perhaps even earlier. Just a handful of them, and now Indy Ref 2 could be announced any time, they’re back out of the woodwork.
Be alert. Scotland needs lerts!
I’m a total lert
😉
Tories From Scotland putting the interests of the Elite above representing the expressed will of their constituents (who are Sovereign Scots) and also putting the interests of the Government of a foreign country (England aka Britain aka The UK) above their own (Scotland) is not news.
“Protect the Precious Union at all costs” is their game.
That and a priority list of:
1. Personal gain
2. Party
3. “Precious” UK Union
This is usually expressed in the cry of “No Surrender to Independence Referendums”.
As the Brexit choice becomes binary and people have to “pick a side” more and more are choosing our side rather than that of the British Nationalists.
Stephen Kerr and ‘the most successful union’ yes – just like Westminster did with every ‘colony’ they robbed it blind of all its wealth and then left it broken and divided when there was nothing left to steal.
🙂
Back to the reality of Brexit, listening to locals being interviewed on the border of N Ireland and they are telling us that ANY kind of border posts will become legitimate target for people who want it to stay a free and open border.
Meaning the poor guy who is standing guard at the border could become a legitimate target for any disgruntled gunman.
Would you become a guard on the Irish border???
Ledgerwood @ 12.44pm
Nice example of “Fake News” there from the fading Herald.
Kerr’s “question” was a put-up job, to allow May to send a Thatcher-style “This Iron Lady is not for turning – NO to Independence” message to Nicola Sturgeon before this afternoon’s meeting.
She has NEVER listened to any of Nicola’s reasonable efforts to get something akin to a sensible Brexit. Therefore, she is highly unlikely – indeed I cannot see this happening – to agree to a Section 30 Order.
I repeat what has been English government policy since 1707: “We have captured Scotland and must bind her fast.”
Winning Independence will not be at all easy.
‘Brexit, Trump, nationalism and street violence all represent bad answers to an important question—how to reforge agreement on distributive justice for those who have lost out (or so feel) from globalisation, technological innovation or responses to climate change.
A ‘new social accord’ is essential, in workplaces and communities, to rebuild trust in fractured societies. It must reduce income inequality, support purchasing power and median incomes, address job quality and counter the spatial concentration of discontent…
those who have lost out over the period have been low and middle-income groups in developed countries…The ‘great moderation’ in wage and price increases following the oil shocks of the 1970s was in the main brought about by the weakening of trade unions and the dismemberment of collective bargaining, notably in the Anglo-American world under the Reagan and Thatcher…Hence the delayed reaction of anger was initially felt in labour heartlands—the traditionally working-class areas in England and Wales and in the Great Lakes states of the US. But with the intermediary trade-union institutions weakened, the way was paved for self-harming populist responses: the election of Trump and the vote for Brexit’
link to socialeurope.eu
Scotland will write its own social accord, WM has failed communities all around the UK repeatedly. The world needs a new model of deliberative and participatory democracy to pave the way. An independent Scotland with a solid foundation of progressive, inclusive civic nationalism (2014- a rehearsal) will do just that.
May says (12:11.06 we have a deal that allows…..
Oh no we don’t! That deal was rejected by 230 votes.
It is all “I want” and absolutely no “parliament wants”
Typical tory ME ME ME
The line that by proxy or indirectly, more people voted for something has really taken off with the Tories. The example being the 2017 GE where they claim a mandate for all sorts of policies in Scotland as more people voted for Unionist parties, and by extension Unionism.
Having lost their majority in Parliament they claim again and again to have a majority in some other way.
If this is how support is calculated it is duplicitous and deceitful and needs to be called out each time. Of course, it only has weight because of the relentless anti-Indy mantra of the Tories at each election since IndyRef1.
Maybe it is time to put Independence at the forefront of each and every election from now on as it will give a definitive guide to support for and against.
@Socrates MacSporran
It depends on what cards Sturgeon has up her sleeve. I can think of circumstances where May would fall all over herself getting a Section 30 through the HoC, HoL and the Queen in record time.
Did you see Kerr’s mug after May praised him?
Just like a lapdog basking in his mistresses praise. Enuff to make you boak a rainbow of blue, red and yelly all over the telly;-
McBoxheid,
The Phantom Power link that Macart posted is working fine now and the intro music is a from song called Alles Neu by Peter Fox, a very apt title indeed.
This is a polite plea to GEEO and others. When you use abbreviations please write in full first time with abbreviation in brackets, e.g. PM (Prime Minister), as there are some of us who like me might not catch the true meaning of their considered contribution. Thank you.
The Confidence Tricksters Party for the Colonies.
Tory policy to attack the disabled, the vulnerable, the working classes and middle classes although the later are sure that they too are the superior race.
Westminster has a 56 year long record of ensuring the gap between the Rich and the Working Classes continues grow exponentially.
The World’s richest 26 people have more than 50% of the planet’s population.
Why would that be allowed in any fair and just society?
Would it be unfair on them if their wealth was limited to £1 Billion each?
I find it hard to believe Scots would elect a Tory but to elect Stephen Kerr truly baffles me!
Stirling what possible reason could you have had to do this?
@Ronnie Anderson et al –
Has anyone heard about SIU shifting their Burns Supper to Friday?
Dunno about Facebook but Twitter is ahop with all sorts of rumours…
Churchill took Iran’s Oil in the 1950’s. CIA/M15 caused uprest and violence to cause chaos and destroy the Gov. The Iranian (Persia) PM wanted a share of the Oil revenues. CIA/M15 created rumours the PM was gay and he ended up in jail. The discredited Shah was reimposed on the population. Leading to the position today. Iran is still subjected to illegal sanction. They do not need nuclear. There is solar and oil. The historical papers are available in the US records.
Since the 1960’s the UK Gov have been giving illegal bribes to the Saudi administration.
The Westminster Gov illegally and secretly took all of Scotland Oil revenues and wasted it. Illegal wars, financial fraud has cost Scotland £Billions. Total mismanagement of the fishing and farming sector. Scotland has to pay £Billions for HS2/Hickley Point and Trident etc. A total waste of money,
Scotland does not have the funds to invest in innovation wave.technology or CCS projects which could be sold worldwide. Earning £Billions. The wave technology firms are moving to Canada. Coal and gas which is plentiful could be used with CCS innovation. Or more wind, solar and wave. All investment has been cut by the UK Gov.
Kerr – 148 votes majority
Its patently obvious that the Scots Tories don’t give a toss about Scotland.
Auld Rock says:
23 January, 2019 at 1:22 pm
“”This is a polite plea to GEEO and others. When you use abbreviations please write in full first time with abbreviation in brackets, e.g. PM (Prime Minister),…””
……..
I agree with you but am going to be pedantic and point out that the term is written out in full the first time it is used and the abbreviation put in brackets immediately afterwards. Thus: Prime Minister (PM).
It’s funny how the Tories are demanding that NO border will go up between North and Southern Ireland.
Yet,,,when Scottish independence is mentioned, a hard border is the first words out of their mouths.
Nicola is in London today to meet big T just as we’ve had the co-ordinated “no IndyRef2” question (Stephen Uriah Heep Kerr) and answer (Big T) fiasco in the Commons earlier. That’s been followed up on BBC news with footage of Iain Blackford versus Big T on IndyRef2 with Big T spelling out what this would cost individual Scots. The BBC rarely include any SNP MP’s Commons comments on their news. Looks as though they’re firing a warning shot over Nicola’s head now. The situation has clearly just moved up a gear. Let the battle commence.
Jezza
Well almost their first words…dragons, herpes, plague of boils, bad squirrel aids, Darien, EU won’t accept you plus you will have to use the Euro and Armageddon are usually included in the perm any three.
I think the correct terminology for the Mr Kerrs of Parliament is “grovelling toady” (although he speaks well of us).
The FM said “…..”. Says auntie wie a kilt but we’re no showing you her speaking because… 🙂
PS:
‘Evasion’ of the licence fee 10% in Scotland and BBC considering new powers etc. Revs WoS twitter.
The Tories had no policies in 2016.
They had Davidson on all their posters Say No To Indy 2
Now the public have seen the likes of Kerr in action, will that Tactic work a 2nd time.
If they have been out canvassing, it will be that question they are asking.
I’m guessing they don’t like the answer and are relying on May denying an Article 30.
Kerr has no answer to austerity and the rape clause. That’s where he is vulnerable, bring it on.
Fake mandates are indeed rife.
One thing is clear though, Labour’s manifesto said they would never support any Brexit deal that May puts forward.
However it’s kind of clear that despite not having a majority of Scotland’s Westminster seats or at Holyrood scot’s torries want to overrule our elected representatives even on devolved matters.
Handandshrimp
And did you hear Treeza reminding us during PMQ of just how well off every single Scot is due to being in the fantastic UK.
She more or less told us we are all subsidy junkies funded by the ever generous English taxpayer.
We are not worthy Treeza…
Macart says:
23 January, 2019 at 11:18 am
@McBoxheid
Ayup! Seems Phantom Power have attracted quite a traffic log jam. Probably best just to play from the twitter page.
——-
Thanks for that
Breastplate says:
23 January, 2019 at 1:18 pm
McBoxheid,
The Phantom Power link that Macart posted is working fine now and the intro music is a from song called Alles Neu by Peter Fox, a very apt title indeed.
—–
Thanks for that
Ps ignore my last post (Macart was still in copy/paste thingy and I din’t do that properly for this post)
@Socratese McSporran
Did she now?
Heh! If ever there was a hold my pint moment… 😎
Apologies. This won’t archive.
link to independent.co.uk
Reasons as to why Treeza’s a bit on the nervy side when the thought of Scotland heading for the lifeboats is mentioned.
Also? She might want to have a think about her ‘permission’ rhetoric.
Stirling what possible reason could you have had to do this?
I’ve asked myself this same question since he was elected – never did find out if their was an unexpected increase in postal votes for Stirling – anyone know?
Anyhow, I think basically too many SNP voters couldn’t be arsed to get to the pols (approx 5000. from 2015)
@Macart
From that at the end: “The backdrop to Mr Barnier’s comments is a fight in the Commons on Wednesday over a new amendment to rule out a no-deal Brexit – forcing the government to seek an extension or revocation of Article 50.”
It’s all happening at the zoo!
@yesindyref2
Put it this way. I don’t think the statement from the baker’s dozen and the staged question in PMQs are accidental. 😉
@Macart
That underlines though, why Sturgeon is 100% right NOT to call Indy Ref 2 yet.
Bidding is open on the Scotland deficit.
We have Theresa with her opening bid of £10bn
Duncan is in now with £13bn
We have Kevin on the side contemplating a £15bn bid
Come on join in, once it equals the entire UK deficit though I’m not sure where you go.
Thank goodness we have these financial geniuses to save us from ourselves!
Given that we are subsidised so heavily and it appears to be increasing rapidly, I cannot understand the reason for holding on so tight to a massive financial drain.
Perhaps people will ponder that the Party of Austerity, Bedroom Tax, Universal Credit, Pension cuts etc etc are not driven by being generous to the needy and could be lying.
However my fellow Scots need to see what has been obvious to most of us for a long, long time.
To continue to support and trust (TRUST) the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories after their behaviour since 2014 is hard to fathom. What level of betrayal by them will make you consider supporting Independence?
13 Scots Blue Tories fighting England’s cause, as are 11 Red and Yellow Tories.
And all for cash.
@auld rock.
When writing my name, do not use all CAPS, as my username is geeo not GEEO.
Or better still, away and sh*te a hedgehog.
If you are checking grammar over content, then i could not give a sh*te about what you have to say.
Shinty says:
23 January, 2019 at 3:03 pm
“”Stirling what possible reason could you have had to do this?””
Park of Keir.
I am sure the Scots Tories sing the English National Anthem including the last verse as loud as possible. I just hope the Scottish schools are continuing as in my youth to teach the last verse.. Nothing made it more obvious to us our place as Scots within the UK. Never did I sing that song again.
If we have printers at home, print the “Hootsmon” Tory response on a piece of A4 and stick it in your home window and car window.
If you can put up with the shame of being seen anywhere near a Tory office, drop one in to them.
Then again trying to shame a Tory!!!
Jack collatin@4.21
You forgot the main reason for the Shortbread Yoons.(eyes on the prize)
ERMINE COAT.+ £300.00 per day.+ expenses, and ignore the cries of the dying constituents.
Kerching.
Jeezo, geeo is getting awfy het up about capitalism, and hedgehog excrement.
Guys/gals, your taking up space.
Meantime,back at the ranch, the Rev fancies applying for a vacancy with the People’s Friend. “I’m in” he says. First up Twitter response – Friend, not fiend Rev. And another, “Pure synergy Rev”.
There’s hope.
@ Geeo at 4:42pm …
I thought you were reporting individuals to Stuart Campbell for being abusive towards other posters?
Jezza & Cubby.
Swop E-mail addresses & carry on your spat there. Just get to hell off here. It is not your personal “twitter”. Your boring the ass off of most contributers.
Scotland we love you, join us… Aye right!
Still at tea & scones but the latest from Auntie darn Sarf.
————————————————————–
Sturgeon and May clash over indyref2 ahead of Brexit talks
link to archive.is
Shinty and others: re Stephen Uriah Heap Kerr
he was elected with a majority of 148 votes after two ( three – can’t remember exactly) recounts.
We polled really strongly on the day at the ballot box but the Conservatives won through the postal vote.
That is one reason why Stirling is pushing a campaign locally to try and get as many people as possible to cover themselves with the option of postal vote in case of a sudden change of circumstances e.g. a shift change, working away from home, which could result in their vote being lost.
We were truly shocked that he won on the night and he most definitely does not speak for me.
He certainly gets out and about in the Constituency and there are many photo ops of him visiting care homes, play parks, etc.
Say what you like Petra, but i was instrumental in getting rid of 3 of the worse disruptive elements on here.
Telling someone to go shi*te a hedgehog is equatable to the deeply offensive personal abuse spewed by certain begone posters ???
Best shut the site down then huh?
Good grief !
Meg merrilees
23 January, 2019 at 6:48 pm
The Stirling Observer usually features 3-4 stories every week about Stephen Kerr doing this, that and whatever.
In complete contrast to the near complete absence of the previous SNP MP who barely rated a mention throughout his time in office.
Strange that a paper that is part of the Daily Record does so much to support a Tory. Not really strange is it?
@Petra
geeo had spotted it as per his posting at 12.07, I also saw it earlier on but didn’t comment. geeo’s right.
For the record, I strongly believe in free speech, as long as it does not incite violence, racism etc.
As I commented before, I am totally against Charlie Hebdo.
But of course what the Lord gives, the Lord can take away.
Unlike some other posters, I don’t have a God given right to post here.
Amen.
“Unlike some other posters, I don’t have a God given right to post here.”
You did have, then you abused it and got it taken away until your comments could be checked in advance. And tbh, if you keep flooding my mod queue with an avalanche of the sort of stuff you got put on the list for in the first place, I’ll just ban you altogether.
You think Nicola Sturgeon is too scared to hold another referendum. We get it. That’s a perfectly valid view. We don’t need to hear it 50 times a fucking day wrapped up in insults to other posters and incomprehensible streams of self-referencing quotes.
We clear?
@Legerwood
Gave up buying the Rutherglen Reformer after SNP won as MP & MSP in 2015/16. They still seem to have a ‘What James Kelly did this week’ story. Also flooded with anti-SNP letters, decided it was better not to support what was, in my opinion, just another biased publication. Also owned by the DR.
Jezza said this, regarding a hard border:
“The poor guy who is standing guard at the border could become a legitimate target for any disgruntled gunman”.
……….
Just for absolute clarity, and i would hope i speak for everyone not only on here, but also the wider world, it is ABSOLUTELY NEVER ‘legitimate’ under ANY circumstances for an innocent person doing their job, to be murdered.
Disgusting thing to say, you should do the right thing and retract it, jezza, and gain back some respect from your fellow posters, even I would respect you if you were to retract.
@ yesindyref2 at 9:23pm ……
EH! I’m not talking about what he spotted.
Legerwood
I think it’s all part of the well-oiled Tory PR machine. Plus, the Observer is always looking for stories and if Kerr has carefully planned all these community visits and invited press cover then they will happily go along and cover it I guess.
Gives the impressions he’s getting on with the day job when in fact, he is not representing his constituents wishes as we voted something like 62% for Remain.
@Petra
Ah right, sorry. Unfortunately they rely on people not paying attention and have started attacking the “troll hunters”. People are then picking up on this without having followed the trail and attacking the WRONG people. All people have to do is go back and check it out, sadly they don’t bother. It’s discouraging, but Wings having been infested, is starting to get cleaned up at last.
It’s a sign of success though that the trolls are attacking the hunters.
@yesindyref2
Petra is referencing me telling a pedant to “go sh*te a hedgehog”.
Which is clearly crime of the century, when i have been going after those disruptors calling people abusive names i am not going to repeat here.
rock, mac and mike, all off the boards here, because i (and others) reported them, rather than argued with them.
But you tell one guy being a bit ‘dickish’ to go shite a hedgehog and your integrity is called into question.
If anyone wants to report anything i post, go ahead. I have faith my comments are not abusive, catty maybe, sarky even, but certainly not personally abusive.
Wings is a better place without the 3 i mentioned, but if folk think it would be better without me, then just say, and i will stop going after the disruptors and leave them to it.
Geeo @ 10.03pm
It is surprising and very disappointing that other people on Wings read ” a legitimate target for any disgruntled gunman ” and just pass on by without comment.
It is also surprising and disappointing that some people on Wings think it is ok for someone as their first ever comment in reply to a reasonable question about their post to deliver a tirade of offensive and unacceptable abuse using mental illness terms for upwards of 15 posts. It is then pretty pathetic for the perpetrator to then try and claim victim status.
If Britnats convince people on Wings that there are no Britnats on Wings then the next thing they will be convincing people of is that the UK is a union of 4 countries, Scotland has a £15b deficit, Scots get £1800 per person more spent on public services and of course the union is the most successful union in history. Wait they have already convinced a good chunk of Scotland that is all true. Britnats are good at lies and deception.
If mental illness is ever to be given the appropriate status in health care it needs a sea change in attitude in the way it is discussed in society. I think a lot of Wingers just never got that point. That of course is their right. It is also my right not to accept such crap and not to accept the use of mental illness terms as a weapon. Some Wingers may see it as a spat, if so scroll on by, I do not it.
sandy@6.23pm
Apologises if you are bored. A gentle reminder to you that it is not mandatory to read every post. Just scroll on by if you are bored. Lots of people do that including me with some posters. It’s not hard to do. You are entitled to your opinion but
“Just get to the hell off here” – unfriendly advice heard but not complied with.
‘A gentle reminder to you that it is not mandatory to read every post.’
Same applies to aw the ‘I’m so deeply offended but I daren’t say a word to posters about ‘sweary’ words if ‘I’VE’ decided they are ‘good’ posters.
You know who you are. 😉
@geeo
Please keep going!
Wings is a lot fucking better for it.
LOL
@Socrates
“As JM Barrie famously said:
“There are few more impressive sights in the world than a Scotsman on the make.””
A couple of others
George Bernard Shaw:
“God help England if she had no Scots to think for her.”
Voltaire:
“We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation.”
As i am sure K1 would testify to, the demise of mike on here was worthy of a Chris Cairns saturday effort !!
That alone makes it worth the effort. Loltastic stuff.
Look how much better this place is without rock for example, a guy always careful to avoid personal abuse or stuff worthy of a warning/ban/moderation.
He let his guard down once and we nailed him.
mac had a dynamic IP but the rev still got rid by other means, that just shows the effort these folks are putting into disrupting wings.
We need to match that effort by not putting up with the trend recently of increasing boldness of abuse, usually fixated on one poster with general angry rants at others who dared to question them.
Jezza is the latest in the line, over a dozen abusive posts to Cubby alone, and a wee rant at me.
He was reported for a particularly nasty attack on Cubby, and the one on me.
Not heard much from him since…hmm…!
The hilarity gained from the total lack of self awareness from WoS self appointed Keystone Stasi is priceless!
Anyway, it seems NS got exactly what she wanted from her trip to London (a step nearer indy via no deal).
They lie as much as Dick Leonard. Have it from good source that Trade Unions in Scotland now predominately for Indy.
Seems Tories too now clutching at the straws of their hard core.
Yes Movement rising and ready for action all over Scotland and we are networking.
Geeo I really appreciate what you (and others) are doing, as the site is constantly being “invaded” with one BritNat after another. The last three to hit the dust was to say at the very least a relief. All I was pointing out is that if you have taken on that role, overtly, you have to be seen to be non-abusive to someone newly visiting the site. People who have not been following any particular poster ….. “following the trail.” Better still we should all do as Stu recommends and that is totally ignore them, let them post their cr*p and report them enmasse rather than ding-donging backwards and forwards as some seem to be doing. For example use one post to that effect: A call to everyone to contact Stu.
As to people passing on by, without making any comment, when someone has stated that someone “is a legitimate target for any disgruntled gunman” …. they may have made no comment on the site but rather followed Stu’s advice and reported the person in question. That in fact is a good example of using one post only to call for support from all genuine wingers. The “mental illness” posts being another example. I hope this clarifies my post to some extent.
If so @Ian McCubbin says at 6:41 am
“Have it from good source that Trade Unions in Scotland now predominately for Indy.”
Must just be the Office Holders and “Spokespeople” that are BritNats then.
Those who will be deselected or personally stand to lose financially from Indy then?
Unfortunately this comes as no surprise what so ever.
I’m just not sure how people could think voting for them was a good idea.
They are either stupid, Tory loving, selfish basterds or all 3
Essexexile= Britnat.
They say every country has the government it deserves, so just what the hell did Scotland do to deserve the Tories?
Then I remember that back in 2014, ‘Scotland the Meek’ declined to take responsibility for managing her own affairs, and here is where that fateful decision has brought us.
I hope that WoS readers who encounter any No voter complaining about Brexit are quick to remind them that our current situation is exactly what they voted for in 2014; England shall decide for Scotland, and England shall have what she wants.
Be sure to throw in a casual “so STFU” where appropriate…
Petra@7.04am
You are of course entitled to your view. I am of the opinion that if someone posts an unacceptable comment e.g. that says it is ok to shoot border guards then if it is not called out as wrong on the thread then it implies that other Wings posters/lurkers find it acceptable. That would be the reasonable conclusion for someone visiting the site to take – in particular it makes good propaganda for the Britnat media.
I always base my comments on what other people post – if it is clear they are a Britnat I will call them out. If I am subjected to personal abuse I will call it out as well.
People swear, get the fuck over it. Calling swearing abuse is laughable. Context is everything.
Clearly geeo, cubby and those of us who can spot the phoney’s from a hunnered miles will do as we feel according to our nature’s in terms of engagement with others on this site. It certainly isn’t anyone’s business to attempt to ‘control’ ‘how’ others respond to ‘abusive wanks’.
Please note I haven’t been ‘pre modded’ or ‘banned’ for ‘swearing’ in over 5 years of commenting on this site. Though some would love that, simply because it is not ‘abuse’.
The same applies to geeo’s language. Those prudes, should consider that they themselves become part of the problem when ‘they’ create false equivalence with those who are obviously personally ‘abusive’ from the go get to those who have no fear in tackling that very ‘real’ abuse.
Half of Scotland is swearing like fuck right now…let’s all report them…en masse.
Meg merrilees says:
23 January, 2019 at 10:35 pm
I am sure the SNP MP also had visits around the constituency and would alert the press but he got near zero coverage as does Bruce Crawford, the MSP for Stirling.
Not reporting their attendance at events etc is a deliberate decision by the paper and other local papers across Scotland probably behave in the same way if they have SNP MPs or MSP.
The Stirling Observer does not have a large circulation but it is still useful to get some publicity in the local paper.
It really demonstrates what the SNP is up against trying to make itself heard.
K1 @10.21am
LOL
If a troll posting full of anti-englishness or inciting violence is NOT highlighted s being inappropriate, then the damage is done. Lurkers think that’s the norm for Wings, and the media gutter scrabblers will quote it as “vile anti-english cybernats”.
It HAS to be highlighted as a troll posting. You can’t just ignore it. And in fact it would help if MORE posters were aware and prepared to point it out, rather than just a few who get abused ourselves for doing so.
@ yesindyref2 …”It HAS to be highlighted as a troll posting.”
Spot on. Highlight the post and put out a call for all genuine Wingers to report it to Stu. Isn’t that what he’s been telling us all to do?
I enjoy Petra’s postings as a rule, and have absolutely no intention of ‘falling out’ or having a to and thro on, as K1 says, “false equivalence” (brilliantly put).
I try really hard not to swear, i really do, especially on genuine exchanges of opinion, however, i have a super low tolerance level for people who ignore a carefully thought out and presented argument, and make comment on spelling/grammar etc.
I post on my phone, i have long fingers and a keyboard which is nothing like a laptop/desktop, so occassionally when writing stuff down, you hit the odd wrong key and fail to notice.
Now, when you have just invested time and effort to a well thought out post, and someone says “you spelled something wrong” or tries to correct you on how to use an abbreviation (WRONGLY as it happens!!) then you might risk being told to “go shite a hedgehog.
Telling someone to “Go sh*te a hedgehog is NOT abuse.
Telling someone, “i’m to shove a hedgehog up your ar*e and drag it out backwards” IS abuse.
Sorry about that, but just making a point.
To petra, if my language offended you, i apologise, not everyone likes swearing, and fair enough, however, it would be nice if you chided everyone, not just me. (This is the 2nd time you have publically complained about me swearing)
The value of calling out abusive posters is NOT diminished, if i swear now and again at someone being petty.
I hope you appreciate that.
As for K1, Cubby, yes2indyref2, i appreciate the support.
This will be my last word on the subject.
While we’re doing a bit of self analysis, any chance we could all agree to stop the deliberate misspelling etc of Winger’s profile names?
It’s clearly done to be insulting, derogatory and yes, abusive (it’s also monumentally childish)
It’s about on the same level as the Unionist’s talking about wee Jimmie Krankie and equally as unfunny.
So, could we agree on this please?
I see Scottish affairs are suddenly front and centre on the BBC website.
Wankers.
Essexexile = British Nationalist.
Spelling seems fine to me.
Geeo@2.02 pm
You can’t have a private conversation without some Britnat poking their nose in.
Geeo you still don’t get it. I wasn’t “chiding” you about swearing at all. In fact you DIDN’T SWEAR in the post that I’m referring to. Where did that come from? Looks as though someone else came on later to deliberately muddy the waters.
Your language didn’t offend me either. I was pointing out that if you want to take on a key role of outing troublemakers on the site for comments that they make then, as I see it, you have to consider how you respond to them, especially in relation to newcomers to the site.
You were unhappy about auld rock asking if you could stop abbreviating terms. Someone else came on and agreed with him …. about abbreviating. Your follow up statement only referenced auld rock.
As to those who came on to give you “support.” As I see it some of them jumped on the bandwagon because they have their own wee axe to grind. Imo, akin to kids in a primary school playground …. hauners. You don’t need “support” Geeo. You’re smart enough and able enough to look after yourself.
And for those who want to swear constantly on here, not just the odd swear word, and in fact pathetically encourage others to do so, swear away to your hearts content with the knowledge that you’re putting people off of the site and off of the Independence movement overall.
There’s a lot of axes around, and some times we need to stand back and sharpen the trees.
Petra@4.44 pm
Do you ever think you may come across as a headmistress type of person in your postings telling off the naughty boys for swearing. If that is your intention then I think you are succeeding. I rarely swear in general and very rarely on Wings. That is my personal choice.
Do you have any evidence/ reasoning for your assertion that swearing on Wings puts people off Wings and/or independence?
@Cubby
Give over, if it helps to reduce swearing, then so much the better. As Petra says: “not just the odd swear word”.
‘Looks as though someone else came on later to deliberately muddy the waters.’
LMAO…axes to grind…jesus wept Petra…but insinautions are fine and not ‘at all’ axe grinding.
Give. It. A. Rest.
End.
As someone who likes to swear a bit, my opinions are torn.
Which gives “impy onions”. That’s enough to make those devil eyes water!
@ Cubby at …. “Do you have any evidence / reasoning for your assertion that swearing on Wings puts people off Wings and / or Independence?”
Yes I do Cubby and I’ve outlined the circumstances on here before. I’m not going to go through it all again but it related to numerous people. Suffice to say why would anyone claiming to support Independence take the chance, the slightest chance, of turning even one person off? And suffice to say I’ll not be bringing the subject up again. As said already certain individuals on here can carry on swearing (constantly) to their hearts content.
You are ‘scolding’ and ‘praising’ posters on here according to ‘your’ standards.
But ‘your’ standards are not the site holders standards.
It is you Petra who has continued to ‘scold’ and now ‘praising’ posters according to the ‘language’ they are using and constantly asserting without any evidence whatsoever that ‘people are being put off’ either the site or independence, as you have at times cited both in your own full blown ‘telling off of others’ rants, as your reason for indulging in said scoldings.
This is not some opinion I am stating Petra. This is ‘your’ constant ‘axe’ that you are grinding on here wrt other posters ‘language’. And that is why I wrote what I wrote above.
If you have something to say to me directly, please do so. We have argued before over this matter and I am prepared to reach some sort of accommodation for you views but only if you climb down from your holier than thou high horse that sets you as the site’s ‘language’ moderator.
You are not the moderator in any way shape or form on this site, and you would have to admit that as reality and own the fact that it’s ‘you’ who just doesn’t like swearing. You would have to be honest Petra. Without falling back on the absolute nonsense of this being about whether a poster supports independence or is causing this site some sort of damage.
Neither of these ‘reasons’ are reasonable or rational, you have no evidence to support your assertions. The likelihood, given that I have pointed all of the above out before, of you being able to be honest about your own judgemental snobbishness on this matter, is very slim.
Many have sworn on here, the facts remain that you have only ever taken ‘certain’ posters to task, now you ‘insinuate’ that me or others are part of some ‘playground’ clique of ‘willing’ others to swear?
That is an utter nonsense in itself, as I have made very informative posts regarding this whole issue, not once have you ever responded to any of them, others have and you have stayed schtum when this ‘subject’ has been raised on those occasions.
That many may have agreed with the points I may have made, does not at all mean there is some sort of ‘encouragement’ to swear taking place, and your suggestion that there is shows up an incapacity or unwillingness to see something from another’s view. Paradoxically it is you who has now reduced the entire debate on this subject to axe grinding and petty insinuation.
It is you who is intractable, you cannot seem to help yourself and offer no further explanation for your constant reducing of the debate to some *fucking primary school level of interplay amongst posters wherein ‘you’ decide who’s a good little boy or girl.
For as long as you remain intractable and judgemental, I will continue to treat your comments with the utter disregard that I have enjoyed for many months now, by…scrolling on by, after this cheap little move of yours to once again make it all about what Petra wants.
Why don’t you do the same Petra, scroll on by.
*the odd swear word
Cubby, Petra’s ‘reasons’ amounted to ‘ma pals’ and a bunch of people ‘ah know’ professionally, wur ‘put aff’ independence/the site cause they saw a word/s on a computer screen they didnae like.
Petra has never, I repeat never provided hard, truthful evidence of any drop of support in independence because people read wings over Scotland and were put off by btl comments.
The other ‘reason’ that people using swear words damages the site itself is a total made up piece of utter tosh.
How do I ‘know’ that?
Well I just check wi the Rev’s latest numbers for his site, since Petra has claimed for months now that ‘swearing’ is putting people off the site, and those numbers don’t seem to be in line with that assertion at all, I realise that that assertion has no merit.
But the blatantly staring one in the face reason that both these ‘assertions’ are merely that, is that Stu hasn’t come down btl and told people to ‘mind yer language’.
This is simple, another poster is telling other posters off for swearing because she/he/it doesn’t’ like it, has been repeating it for months and still…weirdly…the numbers for independence are rising and Stu’s site is not suffering a loss of traffic.
______________________________________________________
You are not an honest broker Petra. seriously. Give. It. A. Rest.
Scottish Conservative: Standing up TOO Scotland for Westminster & the UK government
Sweargate
My last word on sweargate is that the owner of the site is not averse to using industrial language as it used to be called. One thing I learned a long time ago is that independence supporters are made up of all types of people and that is a good thing.
I don’t like phoney Independence sneaky Britnats and perhaps negative energies should be directed at them on Wings and not true independence supporters.
I have to say that it is pretty dam (oops sorry) sad that people get put off independence by a few swear words – in my book that is pathetic. A lot of people who voted no are always looking for reasons to justify their abnormal choice.
K1 another two posts? You seem to be getting your knickers in a right twist now, lol.
I’m scolding and praising people?
There’s a great deal of “scolding and praising of posters” going on, on this site on a daily basis, so what’s that all about? Where are you going with that one?
I’m “constantly asserting without any evidence.”
Again large numbers of people make statements on here without having to provide evidence. Why should I? What do you want me to do? Drag a (large) number of elderly people to a WoS get-together so that you can “eyeball” and interrogate them?
I “would have to be honest and admit it’s (only) me who doesn’t like swearing.”
Be honest? Admit? Is that right enough? Who do you think you are? You’re correct of course when you say that I don’t like swearing, but please do NOT insinuate that I’m lying about the (over the top) swearing on this site, by particular posters, putting a number of my elderly clients off (and not so elderly / no supporters / or sitting on the fence) of revisiting this site after I recommended it to them. And by the way as I’ve said before few people, including me, have a problem with the occasional swear word, it’s posts that are full of them and / or include other vulgar comments that put people off such as the people I’ve mentioned. Some of whom also swear, in their own home, but don’t expect to see it on a public site that can be visited by youngsters.
“A playground clique of willing others to swear.”
Amazing how you can manage to twist words and meanings just as you turned this issue into one about swearing when it wasn’t.
“Staying schtum.”
It seems that I can’t win. Speak out about swearing – that’s a problem. Stay schtum about swearing – that’s a problem. I’ve been staying “schtum” on the subject of swearing, even when you were presenting research findings involving less than 100 people, essentially to avoid you like the plague. You on the other hand decided to turn a conversation between Geeo and I into one about you and swearing when it was NOT. Additionally you are not treating my posts with disregard and scrolling on by now at all. Are you? Be honest.
There’s no doubt that Wings is a popular site, due to people like Stu, Nana and some excellent posters, although it doesn’t reach as many people as we would like it to. Second most popular site in Scotland now following Craig Murray’s …. at number one. However as to “checking the numbers” relating to people visiting the site, what does that actually tell you? Nought. Half of the numbers could be BritNats for all we know. Where do they come from? Scotland? We don’t know. And it’s also possible that the number of visitors could have been higher. You also say that, “the numbers supporting Independence are rising.” Due to this site? Any evidence to that effect?
@Petra
Some, maybe most of the really offensive posts are from flag trolls. There’s no point in scolding them, they lap it up like a cat that’s got the cream. Job done. Then if regulars scrap about it, they laugh like hyenas. That’s having waited like vultures to swoop. I’m running out of animal or bird analogies.
Another thing they do, by the way, is try to enlist innocent souls to support their side, as in the MT. Sadly some accept and bite the bait.
Last time i tell anyone to “sh*te a hedgehog, i can tell you !!(smiley emoji)
Really disappointed in all of you guys, not one of you has asked if the hedgie is ok after its ordeal….shame on all her hooses…(insert wagging finger and wink emoji).
Maybe we should ask for Rock,mac and mike back ?
Bet they care about the poor wee spikey pal.
*yer hooses”…not ‘her’ hooses ffs !!
I’ve read bits of it, but when I read this one wee part, I just think the rest is not worth even replying or responding to Petra, because it’s not true that I have twisted your meaning and if you can’t understand context and meaning then it really is pointless for you and I to have any kind of dialogue on here about anything.
I did not twist what ‘you meant’, at all. In reality you have twisted my words and meaning:
This is very clear when read what you had actually written, it then becomes clear what I am referring to within the context of what you wrote:
Petra says:
‘And for those who want to swear constantly on here, not just the odd swear word, and in fact pathetically encourage others to do so,’*
What K1 actually said:
‘…now you ‘insinuate’ that me or others are part of some ‘playground’ clique of ‘willing’ others to swear?’
Petra instead of directly quoting (copying and pasting) what K1 said, deletes all the quotes (that K1 is using for emphasis, as in ‘as if’) and surrounding context and alters the meaning of K1’s comment.
Petra:
“A playground clique of willing others to swear.”
Then Petra doubles down on her own twisting by accusing K1 of the thing she herself has just done:
Amazing how you can manage to twist words and meanings just as you turned this issue into one about swearing when it wasn’t.’
—————–
I read the rest Petra, so for brevity: ye cannae win, praised site owner and name dropped (praised) poster that you like, fear (the site will go down hill i.e. more of the same justification), and a big dollop of ‘prove’ that those reading aren’t indy supporters, prove that the site numbers are not a reflection of support for the site. On the last point, we know brexit is raising the prospect of independence, I don’t have ‘to prove it’ as we are all pretty much reading the same information on this site.
In essence Petra I can only repeat what I have said a few times now. Give it a rest, I can’t even type the full stops, just get off your high horse…eh.
*my bold throughout
‘K1 another two posts? You seem to be getting your knickers in a right twist now, lol.’
I attempted an adult exchange directly with you Petra, which is far more than you have ever done wi me, preferring as you do and have done on this thread to insinuate and infer that I am beneath you.
But I know, I know…’you’ are ‘above’ such ‘infantile’ glee Petra.
sh*ting a hedgehog is not all it’s cracked up to be.
For any viewers still peeking in and oot of this one….
That’s all folks, night night 😉
Night night K1 🙂
“An adult exchange”?
You basically called me a liar tonight. In real life, beyond this bubble, I’m known to be honest to a fault, so will not let you traduce my reputation on here. And by the way I don’t think that anyone is beneath me or “above” – superior to me either. Paranoia setting in? In fact in the very recent past I’ve commented that particular post / s of yours have been excellent. “Glee”? I’m gleeful about this, FGS. Say no more. Let’s just agree to AVOID each other, as I had been doing with you, and give others on here, who may have inadvertently come across this, a break.
Commenting as a long time lurker and recent poster:
I have been and continue to take the time to visit various folk that require a little assistance in seeing the potential positive aspects of Scotland returning to its independent status and thus having far more control and influence than we currently do.
Some are elderly and small c conservative minded but they are receptive and interested in reading the articles and some of the high quality commentary posted on here.
You all know they won’t get such information on the BBC or in MSM papers.
I have often had to strip out, save, then print out informative comment trails because they are interspersed with waffle that I know will not go down well and distract from the main point of a specific conversation.
I know these people as friends, acquaintances and neighbours. I can’t just let them freely scroll through a comment thread on my laptop and see the stuff that they’ll find offensive or off-putting.
Swearing is one thing but recent seemingly endless tedious bickering he said she said is also a bit much.
Lately I’ve also noticed several rare posters step in and ask that certain parties give it a rest. You’d think those engaging in these spats who appear to read every comment like hawks would have the self awareness to recognise they are often themselves the issue that disrupts threads.
A few weeks back the swearing subject was aired yet again and proof was linked to that those who swear profusely are far more intelligent with brains packed full with encyclopedia levels of profanity amongst other more useful to the Indy cause knowledge.
That’s great, but intelligent people probably already see the benefits of Indy. I’m busy working away trying to convince those “lacking such insight” and confidence of expression to get us over the line.
I know it’s getting frustrating and we are all eager to progress our cause, but believe at times a little less aggro on the threads would be beneficial.
@Dan.
Perhaps you should show them the below the line comments on Scottish topics on The Herald/Scotsman/Express/Daily Mail pages.
Let them see the vitriolic hatred they have for Scotland, the SNP and independence.
Wings is a paragon of virtue in comparison.
Geeo@12.45am
Can you imagine any of the Britnats who post BTL in these papers on a jury ever giving anyone a fair trial who they know supports Scottish independence. In days gone by they would be the lynch mob such is their hatred.
Those that have ruined this comments page, would you please just clear off. Go argue somewhere else? You literally take up most of the comments space now. Maybe need a function where we can block comments from certain users instead of sifting through all the crap.
In the old UseNet days there used to be something called the Breidbart Index, where if posts were substantially the same repetitively and reached a value of 4.2 or something like that, they were automatically removed from planetary news servers. Just saying!
Yesindyref2@12.51
One of your better ideas.
@Cubby
They all are.
…
🙂
Yesindyref2@4.34pm
Not very big on modesty Mr Indy. LOL
Remember the terminator films when the old Terminator was replaced by a more fiercesome upgraded Terminator in T2. I fancy Scotrock is T2 to Rock’s T1. Time will tell.