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Time to grasp the thistle

Posted on December 19, 2020 by

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    1. 19 12 20 07:56

      Time to grasp the thistle | speymouth

    2. 20 12 20 19:10

      Time to grasp the thistle – politics-99.com

    358 to “Time to grasp the thistle”

    1. winifred mccartney says:

      It sure is. Well done that new grandpa – doing it for new future for all.

    2. Effijy says:

      The symbol of the crown that Scots are not answerable to.
      The crown’s anthem that body’s of suppressing the Scots
      The crown that represents England before Scotland
      The crown that takes our resources and then we subsidise them.

      If that bloody mace represents the UK parliament than I expect it to be
      Cut in half so that Scotland takes its share on Independence Day.

      We paid for it.

    3. kapelmeister says:

      Next time throw the damn thing in the Thames.

    4. Sensibledave says:

      I think I read somewhere that the chap that picked up the mace is banned for 5 sitting days … which might actually be about a month … so he loses a month’s salary!

    5. Willie says:

      Should have used the Mace to cleave the bastards with their own petard.

      But aside, what are we doing down there?

    6. Chris Cairns is being kind. He’d be well within his rights to have the word ‘fascism’ drawn alongside ‘Internal Market Bill’. Because that’s precisely what it is. All we need to do is apply its foreseeable consequence effects to historically precedented parallels…

      ‘Internal Market Bill – A UK Enabling Act, Anschluss, Regime Change, A Soldier’s Psychological Tool & ‘Rope-A-Dope’ Distraction’ by #GaslightingGilligan https://wp.me/p94Aj4-21W

    7. Kenny says:

      Aye, Cairns!

    8. Breeks says:

      The Mace predates the Act of Union, so whatever it is, it’s a device of the English Parliament, not the UK Parliament, and doesn’t have any right to be there in front of a Union Parliament, especially when the royal sovereignty it denotes does not extend to Scotland.

      If you don’t rebel against subjugation, your subjugation becomes a convention, and the convention becomes the norm.

      That an MP is automatically suspended for touching the mace should see it’s reciprocal in Scotland, with automatic suspension for an Scottish MP who bows to the mace’s authority.

      Scotland has sat immobilised in complacency for much too long. Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution, the popular sovereignty of the people, MUST be asserted and defended.

      I do not know the extent to which Scotland was coerced into accepting these trappings on Union. A weakened and emasculated Scotland probably had no choice, on penalty of military invasion, individual imprisonment, financial ruin, or routine prejudice and humiliation. Maybe you had to bend at the knee just to ‘get on’.

      But whether feart, or a rogue greedy with ambition, we cannot pass a harsh judgement on those who betrayed Scotland in the past if this 21st Century generation of Scots sits on it’s hands doing nothing, as international laws are broken and Scotland is subjugated to the colonial will of England and drummed out of Europe against the will of our sovereign people.

      If you tolerate this Scotland, your children will be next.

      Fight Scotland. Fight it as if your life depended upon it.

      Ask yourself a question. Suppose you were a Scottish person living in 1707. If you’d had the means to do it, would you have impeached the Scottish Parliament of 1707 for failing to defend Scottish Sovereignty and signing up the Union? I know I would. No hesitation. But just before you answer that question, be aware we have a weak Scottish Parliament in 2020 swearing fealty to the faux convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty.

      Fight for your sovereign identity Scotland. Let our generation be the one to which our ancestors and future generations would all raise a glass to and salute.

      Scotland MUST dispute it’s colonial subjugation, bring that dispute before the UN, and use what has happened to see the 1707 Treaty of Union torn apart.

      It is indeed time to grasp the thistle. If our politicians don’t have the stomach for it, it doesn’t mean we stop, it means we must do it without politicians.

    9. 100%Yes says:

      I thought the real goal was to remove our MP’s not the English parliamentary mace this might impress some people but it doesn’t impress me. A stunt by the SNP which to distract us all from the real reason why we sent 48 SNP MP’s to Westminster to remove Scotland from the union. I really can’t see why people are blind to the fact that the SNP have had it in its power to protect Scotland from the leaving the EU to the Internal Markets bill but have chosen to pass that sovereignty back to Westminster and called it the Gold standard.

    10. jimnarlene says:

      Excellent as ever.

    11. Someone needs to pick the mace up in Scot Parly if Humza`s Hate Thought Bill goes through.

    12. Republicofscotland says:

      God one Chris, time to grasp our own destiny I say.

      Anyway the Electoral Commission, which I say is a British state captured body, is delaying the independence party (AFI) Action for Independence registration until next year. (AFI) have already waited eleven weeks for the go ahead from the state captured EC.

      WE are not playing on a level field here, the EC’s impartiality is a threat to our indy minded parties that want to take List seats from the British nationalists at Holyrood.

    13. Craig P says:

      England is like a bowl of onion soup. The UK is onion soup with croutons added.

      Unionists can call it something different but it’s still basically onion soup.

      I’d rather be my own sandwich than just decorative bits in someone else’s lunch.

    14. Muscleguy says:

      @Republic of Scotland
      I know folk who have read what passes for the AFI constitution who shepherded the ISP through the EC. They say it has no chance of being passed.

      The rules expressly forbid the sort of umbrella orgs AFI claims to be. It smacks of electoral pacts which are also not allowed.

      It doesn’t want to be a party so it ipso facto cannot have party registration. The denial is strong there. I’ve tried to engage them on twitter (they don’t even have a website) to little avail.

      The ISP is registered, we have branches well set up. Candidates are being selected, the manifesto is coming together. We are streets ahead of anyone else.

    15. Mia says:

      The MPs are put in their seats by the constituents, not by England MPs, the speakers or the “custodians” of the UK parliament, I don’t care how many swords they carry.

      With this in mind, I believe it is a blatant abuse of power for any England MP, I don’t care in what position they are or how many plums they have in their mouths to sound posh, to “suspend” an MP from Scotland.

      No England MP has any right to deny the constituents of Scotland representation in Parliament. As far as any England MP is concerned, that Scottish MP was speaking on behalf of his constituents and they have no right to tell those constituents they are wrong, never mind punish them without representation. Who are they do do so?

      It is not for England MPs to decide “the rules” of a parliament that is as much England’s as it is Scotland’s. It is for the representatives of Scotland and England, together, to decide those rules.

      I think this “suspension” should be fought in the courts, as it is at all practical effects, an unlawful way to deny a whole constituency in Scotland representation in the UK parliament just for saying aloud what many of us in Scotland are thinking.

      The idea that touching a stupid, ugly artefact that most of the UK electorate would not give a sht about is any more important in a parliamentary democracy than ensuring representation of each and every one of the constituencies of the UK is as absurd as it is abusive.

      This is just another blatant example where England MPs self-appoint themselves to a position of power over Scotland to deny Scotland’s constituents representation in the UK parliament. That is completely unacceptable. They are Scotland’s MPs equals, not above them and most certainly are not above Scotland.

    16. Astonished says:

      Excellent cartoon.

      However the most pressing problem is the murrells continued intransigence in not resigning.

      I agree with Scot Finlayson. And it is humza’s nazi thought crime bill. Its got nothing to do with preventing hate and everything to do with enabling trans science-deniers.

    17. Republicofscotland says:

      Muscleguy @9.55am.

      Thank you for that reply, I see British nationalist George Galloway also had to change the name of his unionist party for next years Holyrood elections from Alliance for Unity to, all for Unity, he too is waiting on the EC’s considerations.

    18. Colin Alexander says:

      “The mace in Parliament is the symbol of royal authority and without it neither House can meet or pass laws”.*

      It is the symbol of British sovereignty of Crown in Parliament. A concept at odds with Scotland’s sovereignty of the people

      ————————
      Here can be found the House of Lords report on the Internal Market Bill: which has now obtained Royal Assent and become law as the
      United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020:

      https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/3025/documents/28707/default/

      It says, for examples:

      P.9 par 23: ” The implications for devolved competence will depend heavily on how the UK Parliament sets minimum standards for England, as the economically dominant part of the UK”.

      par.25. “18 In the context of devolution, it is troubling that substantive changes to the UK internal market scheme could be effected by delegated powers, which are subject to relatively limited parliamentary scrutiny and do not require the consent of the devolved legislatures.

      * http://WWW.parliament.uk

    19. Graeme says:

      @ Muscleguy

      I’m behind the ISP 100% and it’s my intention to persuade as may people as I can to vote for them next year I think I’ve persuaded a few people already but it’s a drop in the ocean,

      How do they get the message out to the general population, the D’Hondt system isn’t really that complicated but it’s not that simple either, it does take some explaining and getting people to listen while you try to explain it is like pissing against the wind.

    20. Colin Alexander says:

      Devolution is dead.

      All that Holyrood and the SNP is doing is giving credibility to British colonialism.

      I won’t vote for colonialism or colonial administrators for the English Crown.

      If that’s what you want to vote for, feel free (even though Scotland is not free).

    21. ScottieDog says:

      Whilst I sympathise somewhat with Andy wightman, he’s part of the reason I walked away from the greens. Not long after winning his own court case (to which I donated) he joined in the pile-on on Alex Salmond after he was found not guilty by the same court system. After he publically fawned over Danni Garavelli’s ‘retrial’ article about the salmond case I stopped funding the party. It was the final straw on top of a number of other things.

      Their latest behaviour means they won’t get my vote. They are no real help to the biosphere and have massively under achieved. How Harvie is still there is beyond me.

    22. Effijy says:

      Run for the hills if you are Scottish!
      Daily Hail in full SNP and Scotland worse than Bad.

      Drug Deaths everywhere, very high youth unemployment
      Kate Forbes stealing Covid Funding fro Westminster to use
      On Brexit negotiations.

      My favourite today is how EU fish deal will impact on Grimsby
      and did you Scottish waters account for more that half of fish
      caught in the North Sea?

      What kind of fish are these? Don’t they know more than 90%
      of fish should be found in English waters and stolen waters.

      The highest petrol prices in the UK are in Scotland
      Pity only England found oil in Scottish waters.

      New Drug Minister is a failure before she starts.

      Thank you England for taking all our money and choices from us.
      God knows what might happen to us if we didn’t have your depth
      Of corruption ruling over us and media that keeps us free from truth.

    23. Lenny Hartley says:

      Sorry for being O/T so early but I may have stumbled on a possible reason why so many young people are experiencing Mental Health issues Which in some manifests itself as a desire to be the opposite biological sex, it could be down to Diet perhaps Fast Foods?
      I am a contributor to the Zoe Covid-19 symptom study group , today I was reading some info on how diet can improve the Immune System with a Good diet giving you good gut microbes which in turn is good for your immune system.
      The article said this “ A healthy gut microbiome may protect you against many health conditions, including metabolic diseases, digestive disorders, and even mental health problems. Your gut microbiome also affects how your body breaks down and responds to different foods. ”
      So its possibly not Big Pharma but Big Mac’s!

    24. Alf Baird says:

      Grasping the thistle means one thing and that is Scotland’s leaders asserting Scottish sovereignty as is theirs and our right and the way to do that, noo or efter ony referendum, is for a majority of Scotland’s democratically elected national representatives to withdraw themselves and in turn Scotland from the current Westminster alliance. They might as well get on and do it now, and preferably before 31st December.

      And from A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle
      BY HUGH MACDIARMID

      They canna learn, sae canna move,
      But stick for aye to their auld groove
      —The only race in History who’ve

      Bidden in the same category
      Frae stert to present o’ their story,
      And deem their ignorance their glory.

      The mair they differ, mair the same.
      The wheel can whummle a’ but them,
      —They ca’ their obstinacy “Hame,”

      And “Puir Auld Scotland” bleat wi’ pride,
      And wi’ their minds made up to bide
      A thorn in a’ the wide world’s side.

      There ha’e been Scots wha ha’e ha’en thochts,
      They’re strewn through maist o’ the various lots
      —Sic ("Tractor" - Ed)s are nae Langer Scots!’

    25. Pete says:

      Effijy
      Great to see that you’re a Daily Mail reader.
      You obviously love Littlejohn who has a big spread today.
      Anyway, rather than keep spouting your usual rubbishy sound bites,why not listen to the great interview between Andrew Neil and Andrew Wilson about the SG’s plans for independence. Remember Wilson headed up the Growth Commission and recommended sterllingisation.
      Very articulate and informative debate.
      You should then follow the twitter debate between Neil and Tim Rideout who espouses a completely opposite approach by espousing our own currency and certainly NOT rejoining the EU.
      You might learn something and enable you to come up with something useful rather than your daily rants, albeit they probably make you feel a little better.
      Anyway, have a nice Saturday.

    26. Hatuey says:

      I have no idea what this cartoon is meant to convey or who it’s directed at.

      The SNP politicians in Westminster (the ones within reach of that Mace) are doing fuck all towards independence. Actually they’d do more towards independence by sitting in their shoe cupboards.

    27. DaveL says:

      @Hatuey
      Me neither, after a minute or two considering it I Thought maybe it’s mr Cairns’ yellow submarine moment.

    28. Craig MacKenzie says:

      If you support and watch football long enough you are bound to see a player or two contriving to get sent off to “prove” to what used to be called the terraces that he is committed to the jersey. All it ever does is screw your own chances. Grabbing the mace wasn’t a “real” sending off and will probably be seen as such. Can we not do better than that? Lacks imagination and impact.

    29. Doug says:

      At least Drew Hendry did something as opposed to SNP MPs just saying something.

      Britnat Westminster continues to hold Scotland and its people with utter contempt. SNP MPs and the rest of us should reciprocate. Westminster is a rotting carcass; Scotland must escape from it before the stench overwhelms us. Let England writhe amongst the maggots.

    30. robertknight says:

      Doug…

      Gesture politics I’m afraid.

      The whole SNP group should’ve got up and walked, not stopping to bow before leaving the chamber either.

      But no, She Who Must Be Obeyed and her Paper Tiger in Chief Blackford have neither the stomach nor backbone required to protect Scotland effectively.

      Chocolate fireguards…

    31. Saffron Robe says:

      Breeks, very well said at 9:16 am.

      “It is better to die on your feet than live forever on your knees.”

    32. SilverDarling says:

      I watched it live. Drew Hendry was rightly angry. The attitude towards him was patronising and demeaning. A handful of SNP MPs were there to back him up. Labours’ Lucy Powell rolling her eyes and finding her paper work and phone oh so interesting when Labour’s abstaining betrayal called out again.

      There will be many capitalist opportunities in Brexit, it’ll be interesting who benefits. I lamented the waste of our oil but I am raging about the thought of our water being in some Tory crony’s mitts forever more.

      So Nicola Sturgeon what are you going to do about it before it is too late or do you see yourself gone by then and its someone else’s problem?

    33. wull says:

      Hatuey @ 12.24. To understand the cartoon you have to read the small print, and realise – I presume – that what the hand is about to grasp is NOT the Westminster (English tradition’s) mace but the (Scottish, traditional) thistle.

      The hand going for it is not primarily Drew Hendry’s last week. Rather, it is ours – the hand of all of us – at last coming for the thistle, to clutch and grasp it and pick it up, maybe where Drew H’s hand left off the mace the other day.

      So, his action was just a signal to all of us to do what the cartoon’s headline says we should do: ‘GRASP the Thistle’. Pick it up; don’t just leave it lying there! In other words, time to get off our backsides and get moving, really moving, on Scotland’s cause. Not just talking about it – TIME for ACTION.

      ‘TIME TO GRASP THE THISTLE’

      A bit dangerous, of course: you could cut yourself in quite a few places doing that. A thorny thing, a thistle.

      Which brings me to reading the small (and not so small) print. Something the posters don’t seem to be doing. What do you think those printed messages are, if not the thorns currently sticking out of the thistle? Like wounds that have grown out the way from within, or have been plunged into her (the thistle) from without.

      Whatever the case, they are things that make us bleed, and certainly will do if we pick it up.

      My eyes are not strong enough for (some of) that small print. It’s like being at the optician’s for an eye test and you can’t read the bottom line, or even the line above it sometimes. Others with sharper eyes that mine might be able to supply the information. Some of the bigger letters I can make out, and here is what they say:

      BREXIT (on the orb, underneath the cross): Now there’s a mighty thorn, if ever there was one.

      There might even be a nice wee pun here – on the ‘REX’ inside the ‘B.REX.IT’. Maybe the REX is being portrayed as no small thorn in our side as well, whether the ‘REX’ is indeed referring to the reigning monarch herself or, as might be better, to OLD KING BORIS (that not-so-merry old soul) himself.

      The next bit my own old eyes can read, lying horizontally along the bit of the crown that is staring us straight in the face, is the following very clear message (which, despite its clarity, no one had commented on when I started writing this post):

      SECTION 30 RIP: Grasping the thistle in this regard means killing off that hoary old Section 30 diversion stone dead. RIP, indeed – and don’t you dare get up again. Section 30 is a hoax: it ought to be shown up for the total irrelevance that it really is, and discarded NOW, once and for all.

      The next and – alas – the last bit I am still able to read, stretches vertically along the ‘face’ or ‘cup’ into which the four ‘arms’ of the crown are lodged. Again, no one was commenting on it when I started writing this, but the message is loud and clear, though this time it’s not a thorn damaging us but a factor encouraging us to get on with the job of grasping the Scottish thistle:

      ‘YES . 58%’

      Unfortunately, I can’t read the rest of it. The print is just too small, but there are at least 6 other messages. So, if there’s a Hercule Poirot out there, please get out the magnifying glass and let us know what Chris Cairns is telling us.

      Unless I am mistaken, here is where you find these 6 small print messages:

      No. 1 runs vertically along the rim of the cup;

      Nos. 2 and 3 lie horizontally, one above the other, between the bottom of the cup and the ‘knobble’ which the stem of the thistle runs through, on its way from left (the right hand side of the picture as we look at it) to right;

      Nos. 4 and 5 run vertically along that wee ‘knobble’, and

      No. 6 runs horizontally along the stem of the thistle, before it reaches the knobble.

      If we knew what these messages, we would understand the cartoon far better. I may be proved all wrong once the codebreaker deciphers them. But if I called 2 of the 3 messages I can read ‘thorns’, and the third one an ‘encouragement’ that is crying out for us to ‘grasp the thistle’ and get a shift on, then I suppose the other 6 messages indicate further reasons for doing just that.

      In other words, the cartoon – presumably – is highlighting the combination of factors that mean the TIME IS NOW to do what Chris Cairns has telt us to do: ‘GRASP THE THISTLE’. The word ‘grasp’, of course, reminds us of the notion of ‘grasping the opportunity’. Or, to change the metaphor, strike while the iron is hot.

      And as for the THISTLE – please remember, it’s not a mace, it’s a thistle, and as such represents Scotland – what are we to do with it after we grasp it? Not just clutch it to ourselves, in some misty-eyed Romantic dream (reminiscent. as so often of glorious defeat). No. Nothing like that. Let’s see, and in order to do so, look again at the cartoon.

      Where is that thistle? Aw naw – it’s lyin’ doon.

      An’ whit’ll we dae with it efter we grasp it? WE’LL MAK IT STAND UP.

      ON ITS AIN TWA’ FEET. AT LAST.

      AN’ SHE’LL DAE FINE. SHE’LL BE BRAW!

    34. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 0916am,

      QUOTE “It is indeed time to grasp the thistle. If our politicians don’t have the stomach for it, it doesn’t mean we stop, it means we must do it without politicians.”

      Honestly, I am starting to think this may be our reality for 2021. The SNP Scotgov, and their couterparts in Westminster have shown themselves, time and time again, to be feart of their own shadows. Happy to play along with London’s made-up, one-sided ‘rules’, whilst English Tories sytematically dismantle democracy in Scotland, repeatedly breaching the union so-called ‘treaty’.

      Where is the fight from out politicians? Where is their steely-eyed determination to protect Scotland, and our democratic parliament? It cannot be seen. They are cowards, and they are no longer standing up for Scotland or its people. They whine and whine about it being unfair, but actually make a stand??? Nah.

      I am angry about brexit, and angry as hell about English Tories abusing Scotland with impunity, aided and abbetted by a corrupt English controlled media – akin to Scotland’s very own pravda. I am not alone. If our elected politicians are not prepared to stand up for Scotland, then maybe the time will come when they will be swept aside by change brought about by the people.

      I am no rebel, but I and many like us cannot sit by and watch as England, and their English supremacist Tories f*** Scotland repeatedly.

      Oh, how I wish Alex Salmond was still FM, because let’s be clear, we would already have had our referendum and be independent. We most certainly wouldn’t see such a vast contingent of SNP MP’s still sitting in Westminster on a daily basis, waiting to hear Scotland and its people traduced and abused by posh, racist, English supremacists.

      I am tired of it all. But what makes me angriest of all, is Nicola Sturgeon and her pretence to even care. She is a fraud, a charlatan. Any excuse to do nothing. Any excuse to delay and provaricate. Dither, dither, dither. It is forever a case of ‘mibbes next year’ with her.

      Scotland will never be independent with her in charge. Her and all her many, many MSP, MP’s and councillors, each and every single one a coward. They are, in every way, Scotland’s disgrace, cowards one and all, and will after January 1st 2021 be remembered as such.

    35. wull says:

      On that last post, I seem to have got my ‘left’ and my ‘right’ mixed up somewhere. Not just my eyes that are going then … The mind too?

      Tha last post indeed, gradually coming nearer … Do I begin to hear the not-so-distant drum?

      Ah well. So what?

    36. Dan says:

      @ wull

      You can click on the pic to enlarge it.

      Left to right.

      Brexit
      Section 30 Ref
      Internal Market Bill
      YES 58%
      Broken Promises
      Democratic Deficit
      Indy Ref Mandates

    37. Ronald Fraser says:

      Meanwhile, if any Scottish exporters are wondering where their goods are,,,

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/live-a2-a20-m20-traffic-4806519.amp

      And this is all happening BEFORE we leave the EU.

      Brilliant!!!

      We need much more of this to awaken Scots from their slumber.

    38. Seoras Liath says:

      Wull at 2.05

      Just click on the cartoon to enlarge it.

    39. Bob W says:

      @Wull

      1. Internal Market Bill
      2.3. Broken Promises
      4.5.Democratic Deficit
      6.Indy Ref Mandates

    40. Ronald Fraser says:

      C’mon Boris,,, hit us with the hardest of all No Deals you can come up with.

      Too many Scots don’t know the meaning of hardship, and just maybe the hardest of all Brexits will focus their minds and actually let the words “Scottish Independence” slip into their vocabulary.

    41. Dan says:

      It appears Brenda is still creeping around.

      https://twitter.com/FrancesLumsden/status/1340225499541454848

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/brenda-isnt-a-sheep

      Potential Flash Campaign subject to exert pressure?
      Doing nothing is effectively consent.
      If you tolerate this then your children could be next in the queue for puberty blockers and removal of healthy body parts…

    42. wull says:

      To be pedantic, the meaning of the cartoon is that everything is conspiring together at this precise moment for Scotland to win her independence, once and for always – so it is TIME for us to act. All kinds of factors are coming together in our favour, coalescing under our very noses.

      It strikes me there’s maybe a grand slogan that would do us fine, inside the headline. I am told that ‘slogan’ is a loan word from the Gaelic into English (one of the not so many words English accepted from that source) and that what it really means, literally, is ‘battle cry’.

      I don’t know if that is correct – maybe someone more knowledgeable and equipped than me can confirm or deny it. But anyway, like an army of old a cause does need a battle cry. That unworthy cause which was BREXIT had ‘Take Back Control’. Lie that it was, it had the benefit of being only three words, which is the kind of snappy thing that sticks in people’s minds. ‘Glasgow s miles Better’, besides the wit of it, had the same advantage.

      ‘Grasp the Thistle’ might just do fine for us, therefore.

      Sure, opponents would ridicule it, adding things like ‘Grasp the Thistle – and Throttle it!’ But even that would be in our favour. The more they treat us with contempt, the more Scots will turn to the independence cause. Moreover, no matter how hard they might try to ridicule it, every time they too say ‘Grasp the Thistle’ the message – our message – will be getting across.

      Maybe this cartoon was one of Chris Cairns’s most subtle yet. Baffling perhaps, but deep.

      Hats off (chapeau! as the French say) to The Subtle Cartoonist!

      Or am I getting it all wrong (as I often have done on previous Saturday mornings)?

    43. wull says:

      Many thanks Dan, Seoras Liath and Bob W.

      I didn’t even think of that (clicking it!). Time to be put down, I think!!!!

    44. wull says:

      ‘SECTION 30 REF’ is a bit different from my ‘SECTION 30 RIP’, but maybe it comes to the same thing. These are all factors that conspire against Scotland, demonstrating that ‘the Time is Now’ for the thistle (Scotland) to rise up, and get out of this Union. Pronto. Without delay.

    45. Saffron Robe says:

      Robert Louis says: “Scotland will never be independent with her in charge.”

      Exactly Robert. Funnily enough that is what my Mum said as soon as Nicola Sturgeon took over from Alex Salmond. She has never liked nor trusted her from the beginning.

      Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but the following video is brilliant:

      https://videos.files.wordpress.com/4egEyh2b/masks-aerosols-dr-ted-noel_dvd.mp4

    46. kapelmeister says:

      The Skating (First) Minister is a tireless fanatic about trans issues, an absolute lotus eater on indy, and an out and out bastard in dealings with party members who show any dissent from her insane and uninformed notions.

      Instead of congratulating themselves about a few good NEC election results, the real nationalists in the SNP have to remove the tyrant, or at least make a first attempt, without further dithering and delay.

      We can’t grasp the thistle without a certain dismissal.

    47. Dan says:

      A small banner is by nature restricted in how much detail it can state and convey re. complex subjects.

      https://twitter.com/JimFairlieLogie/status/1340217466157449217

      However Jim did produce a few articles for the National earlier this year with more detail. The three articles were written before he was selected as the SNP candidate for the Perthshire South and Kinross-shire constituency for next year’s Holyrood elections.
      Is his suggestion in the following article a way around the Section 30 issue, and would such a method be considered and adopted by the Party.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20201007191326/https://www.thenational.scot/news/18610898.straightforward-way-regain-control-future/

    48. Hatuey says:

      Wull: “ To understand the cartoon you have to read the small print, and realise – I presume – that what the hand is about to grasp is NOT the Westminster (English tradition’s) mace but the (Scottish, traditional) thistle.”

      Yes, we all understand what needs to be done. Fuck sake. I can say all that just by the way I stand.

      I’m wondering who he is saying this to and why. This ship is going to be at the bottom of the ocean very soon, we are up to our necks in water, there’s a lifeboat sitting there waiting for us – we get it. We don’t need a fucking picture.

    49. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @ 3.05pm.

      Dan.

      I don’t see any mention of independence on Mr Fairlie’s banner, maybe its on the back of the flyer who knows.

    50. James Che. says:

      Before grasping the thistle of independence for Scotland, you have to know where you are standing, we have to separate who holds the sovereignty, I have been reading comments over the months past, and some appear to think that the Scottish Parliament has been giving our sovereignty to England,
      This is totally a misinterpretation of who holds the sovereignty, no government English or Scottish holds sovereignty above the Scottish people, we have the right to choose whom governs us, so that places any government below the status of Scottish people.
      Those that say it is time for the sovereign Scottish people to grasp the thistle, are the more accurate in reality, and also correct in saying that no politicians are doing this for us,
      It is time we the Scottish people reclaim our dormant sovereignty and grasp this thistle,

    51. twathater says:

      @ 100%yes 9.16am I agree with you totally , once again another wee stunt to keep SNP members and supporters from looking at the BIG picture of what STURGEON is NOT DOING, a distraction for the FAILED PROMISES

      It’s like giving a wean a sweety when it wants a drum kit , it only works for so long then you have to address the REAL issue , Sturgeon has been feeding us with sweeties for the last 6 years , NOW I want the independence drum kit , nae mair sweeties

    52. F. McRae says:

      I watched the Viceroy’s House last night, a film about Mountbatten and his role in the division of India to create Pakistan and all that entailed. The result of Britain stripping the assets of India for 300 years. the Viceroy’s House had FIVE HUNDRED Servants working there! I watched with a pinch of salt, because I know the horrid manipulations of what goes on behind the scenes of British rule….. But the stark comparisons were there. The rule (and stripping of assets) by the ’empire’ then the chaos of them just leaving as things got messy, and they couldn’t sort it out. Come on folks, we’ve had this keech for 300+ years now, let’s get ourselves out, before it gets too messy.

    53. Ottomanboi says:

      This is something else that needs to be grasped.
      https://www.globalresearch.ca/world-economic-forum-step-two-resetting-future-work-agenda-after-great-reset/5729175
      Independence wouldn’t be worth a hill of beans if this dehumanising process is allowed traction.
      Under the veil of a so called pandemic we are being brain washed to be obedient to a new order which has no respect for nations, boundaries or cultures and is rather accommodating to the type of dysfunctional gender politics currently destroying the SNP.
      Redesigning humanity seems to be aim. All very « Nazi ».

    54. Iain More says:

      Oh I got a flyer from Richard Lochhead. Independence not mentioned once. Are they deliberately trying to fuck me off?

    55. Del G says:

      Westminster wants fish in Scottish waters to self-declare to be English. Then fisherfowks from Grimsby can catch them with impunity.

    56. Susan Dalgety (New Labourblairite who dumped Labour now writes words for Scotsman)

      tweeted about Andy Wightman,

      `A rare thing: A man of principle.`

      how cum she can say that yet if a man had said

      `A rare thing: A woman of principle`

      he would have been tarred and feathered and run out the country,

      wonder what her male family and friends think about her opinion of them.

    57. James Che. says:

      Ottomanboi, I agree, and said as much two or three blogs back, this is the agenda that NS has been following for quite some time now, and most of the snp, along with Husafs hate crime bill,
      We can not leave this to governments any longer. It is Not only England that is following this destroy the culture and existence we all know, as you hear all politicians across the world spouting build back better mantras, this is now being done in Australia, Canada, France, Germany and America, covid might be real, but it seems to be an appropriate tool for the great reset that is to come and spoken about world wide, it also explains why the business are being allowed to go under, if it is to be an economic reset as well, the idea is to cause panic, destroy support systems cause economies to collapse, take down statues to bring in a new version of history, to watch the nhs service not actually do its job for all illnesses, and to watch police forces take a blended knee to bullies, and obviously been instructed to do so, it certainly does make you wonder if this great reset, is actually being implemented and is no longer just a conspiracy
      .

    58. Beaker says:

      @Del G says:
      19 December, 2020 at 4:50 pm
      “Westminster wants fish in Scottish waters to self-declare to be English. Then fisherfowks from Grimsby can catch them with impunity.”

      They already identify as either Norwegian or Faroese.

    59. Sensibledave says:

      .. and Holyrood wants English tax receipts to to self declare as Scottish gravy train. .. oh wait … it already does.

      … I’ve never played “insult thy neighbour” before … it’s fun though isn’t it!

    60. James Che. says:

      This new system is making it very hard to complain to political parties or to be heard in courts,no one is accountable. And no one is listening,
      What are the people supposed to do,
      We are controlled by fear, and scared to make a move,
      Just in case you are scared enough, Scotland has bird flu Scotland has covid, Scotland has a drug problem, Scotland’s schools are failing, Scotland’s full of unemployed. Scotland couldn’t finance itself, and now there’s an variation of covid that may not be susceptible to the vaccine,
      Scotland’s scared to go outdoors, Scotland scared to do anything except section 30, Scotland’s scared to buck the norm and say enough is enough,
      Be scared and be controlled, that is what is happening world wide, the people are scared, but the politicians are not, nor are the royals, it’s not lockdown, reprise it and you are mentally and physically LOCKED-UP

    61. Beaker says:

      Stand by for Defcon 4. Nicola is going to make an unscheduled statement today.

      We all knew it was likely that Christmas was going to be fucked this year, but I don’t want to hear any complaints from the ones who protested about (insert cause here), refused to wear a mask, went to parties, went abroad on fucking holiday, tested their eyesight in their car, allowed conferences to take place, gave expensive PPE contracts to their chums, went trainspotting to London and back, popped to the holiday home (be it castle or cottage), shagged a high profile scientist… (feel free to add to the list)

      I’ve actually paid closer attention to the cartoon Chris. Missed the writing first thing this morning 🙂

    62. Dan says:

      Republicofscotland says: at 3:16 pm

      I don’t see any mention of independence on Mr Fairlie’s banner, maybe its on the back of the flyer who knows.

      Maybe just a simple oversight. It’s so easy to forget what the Party stands for these days. I mean it’s not like there is a big standout issue that requires addressing… 🙂

      Alternatively, I think you’ll find all the letters required to spell “independence” in amongst all the words.

      #StealthCampaigning

    63. Davie Oga says:

      I see Aunty Nicola and the dentist have issued your instructions on Christmas socialising. Better do as your told, or she might get one of her pals to stitch you up on false charges.

    64. Willie says:

      Yes Beaker. Bang on. Johnson a nlun Ed late this afternoon that five day spread fest wast cancelled and wee Nicola the lap dog has fooewd suit.

      Playing the populace like imbeciles they ain’t cancelling Brexit.

      Dance now folks, hop on one leg, cancel your travel arrangements, it’s a test to see how much marching up and down the hill the humpty dumpties can stomach.

      Loads I’d say, we’re a compliant lot.

    65. Confused says:

      you’ll have HAD YER VIRUS

      – now here’s the SUPER VIRUS

      at what level tier do they just call in the airstrike?

      sensible – you are breaking tier 10 restrictions by posting here; chain yourself to your front radiator and wait for the plods – you dont need to call them, they were listening on your mobile

    66. CameronB Brodie says:

      Which legal principles does the British constitution support. The principle of Parliamentary sovereignty, which is a tad medieval and a principle of law that is alien to Scots law? Or the principle of popular sovereignty, which is democratic if constrained by the rule-of-law. Well it appear Westminster is trying to do both, with its’ turn to populist and exclusionary constitutionalism.

      Time for a bit more constitutional legal theory?

      Ronald Dworkin’s principle based constitutionalism
      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article-pdf/1/4/621/2352977/010621.pdf

    67. Mia says:

      “some appear to think that the Scottish Parliament has been giving our sovereignty to England”

      I am no constitutional lawyer, but I like to read and I am full of opinions.

      It is my firm belief that it is not only the Scottish Parliament who is doing so but also the current Scottish government under Nicola Sturgeon, and the Scottish MPs who are legitimising the systematic abuse of Scotland by England by continuing to sit in Westminster and by continuing to participate in the vote for laws and bills that should have never been allowed to enter that parliament in the first place because they are at all practical effects a subjugation of Scotland and therefore unlawful in the context of the Treaty of Union and international law.

      It is my personal opinion that forcing us to accept the requirement of a S30 as a fundamental condition in order to be able to exercise our right to self determination and our legitimate right to end a voluntary union to which Scotland entered as a sovereign state, is nothing other than taking our sovereignty and handing it to England for free. In my opinion the creation of such requirement where there was none under international law is also in direct contravention of the charter of the UN, which clearly states:

      “Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom”

      The way I see it, that S30 is a “condition or reservation” and therefore in contravention of that article of the charter.

      Instead of using the S30 as a veto to hand over to England as Nicola Sturgeon has been doing since 2016, what she should have done is to ensure those powers to hold the referendum were already in Holyrood and if not, demand its immediate transfer or threatening with taking the UK government to the UN court.
      I wonder if that is what Mr Salmond must have done because Cameron never opposed.

      The transfer of powers to hold indyref2014 took place very quickly indeed. But then of course Mr Salmond really wanted that referendum to take place and therefore never came up with the self-defeating idea of handing to England a veto over Scotland’s right to self determination like Sturgeon has been doing since 2016.

      Instead of demanding those powers to be in Holyrood “without delay” in 2016, she used that artificial need for an S30 as a tool to collude with Westminster into denying us our right to self determination for 4 years and counting.

      I do also think our Scottish MPs are handing our sovereignty to England because I think it is their sitting in that parliament what is giving legitimacy and validity to each and every toxic law/bill passed by England MPs that aims to subjugate Scotland (also in contravention of the UN charter), to strip Scotland of its assets for England’s own benefit, to force England’s will over Scotland against Scotland’s own expressed will and interests, to remove Scotland’s rights and to take control of Scotland’s markets to Scotland’s own detriment.

      For instance, the minute the vote was announced to decide if A50 would be triggered, if those SNP MPs had any respect for the fundamental principle of Scotland’s popular sovereignty as they should, they would have exited that chamber in masse and point blank refused to legitimise that vote, never mind taking part in it. They only had a mandate from Scotland to NOT exit the EU. At that point, those MPs should have issued an immediate ultimatum: either England ditched the idea of the UK exiting the EU without Scotland’s consent, or the union would end and each equal partner would go parted ways.

      I will never be able to describe with words the profound disappointment and disgust I felt when I saw those 56 SNP MPS in that parliament voting like sheep and helping England to subjugate Scotland.

      As it is, their presence there legitimised not only the triggering of A50, but the theft of our veto, the withdrawal bill that includes for first time ever the sovereignty of Westminster in UK law, the power grab bill and this new market grab that is the so call “internal bill”.

      Now, by abiding by the “discipline” issued to that SNP MP for grabbing the maze and not demanding him to be allowed to get back in the UK Parliament, they are, in my opinion, legitimising the concept that England MPs can, at will, leave an entire constituency of Scotland without democratic representation in what should be the Parliament of the UK simply for their MP speaking his mind and not abiding “their” rules.

      If that was not bad enough, in my opinion, by remaining in that parliament as they did, they legitimised also the breach of international law on behalf of Scotland that the England government has threatened with. Now, by continuing in that parliament after the special treatment of NI has breached the Treaty of Union, they are also legitimising the idea that such treaty of union is worthless.

      The way I see it, the sitting of the SNP MPs in Westminster is not benefiting Scotland at all. It is benefiting England and their bank accounts.

      The people of Scotland have never given their sovereignty to England. All those bills have been passed without the consent of Scotland, every single one of them. The assault on the Treaty of Union has also been done without the consent of the people of Scotland. It is a rogue FM, a rogue Scottish government, a rogue Scottish Parliament and a bunch of 59 coward MPs who are doing that on our behalf, albeit without our consent and against our will.

      Scotland was sold to England by a parcel of rogues in the 1707 and it looks like it continues to be sold by a parcel of rogues to this day.

    68. Beaker says:

      I’d like to point out that I am wearing full PPE when posting on Wings.

      That statement is dodgy on several levels… 🙂

    69. Republicofscotland says:

      STV news carries the story, back to Tier Four come Boxing Day for a minimum of three weeks, no cross border travel either unless its essential. A new virulent strain of Covid-19 is the culprit, as far as I’m aware it first arose in London and the South East, several cases were reported in Glasgow earlier this week, the shutdown is to stop it spreading and overwhelming our NHS.

      The 18th of January is the date touted to exit Tier Four, we shall see if mainland Scotland comes out of it on that date or not.

    70. Lenny Hartley says:

      They were calling it a new virus on the news tonight, i have a name for it based on its origin (The Saxon Virus)

    71. Saffron Robe says:

      It is a delusion to think that Westminster has any hold over Scotland. The only authority they have is derived from the Treaty of Union which Brexit invalidates. All we need is the mettle to tell Boris Johnson and his merry band of proto-fascists to “Piss Off”. With the IMB and their determination to put themselves beyond the rule of law, the implications could not be more ominous. We are effectively signing our own death warrant if we fail to act now.

    72. Does the vaccine work on the `new strain` .

    73. Bob Mack says:

      @Scot Finlayson,

      Apparently yes.

    74. McDuff says:

      Good article Mia .
      The problem is Nicola Sturgeon, she is now an enigma a mystery. The one thing we do know about her is that she is not for independence and has proved to be a dangerous individual.
      But what I also find odd is the quite outstanding silence by the SNP MP/MSP`s at their abandonment of the electorate and the mandate they were elected for.

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m honestly not the pushy sort and would not be pressing a case I wasn’t certain of. So here’s a bit more constitutional theory that might prove helpfull.

      NATURAL LAW IN AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL THEORY
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/72831351.pdf

      “NATURAL law has had many meanings and diversified interpretations. Whether in the form of jus naturale, the law of nature, the law of reason, lex naturalis, lex aeterna, natural justice, or due process of law; natural law, in the broadest sense, has evolved as the needs of a particular civilization and the endeavors of its legal scholars have directed.’

      It is significant, however, that as a philosophy of law, natural law continues to thrive, although the particular system which one community constructs may be abandoned by succeeding generations. Periods of growth in the law have been freqently accompanied by shiftings in natural law premises. An old system of natural law soon becomes sterile when there is immediate necessity for an extension of legal principles.

      The American Constitution has been a fertile ground for the seeds for natural law, and constitutional theory has already passed through several stages of development, and is apparently upon the threshhold of a new period of growth….”

    76. Confused says:

      this is tier 5
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_vBskRKbs
      ligthem up
      ripple the shit out of them
      get you case of beer for that one
      – the new strain requires white phosphorus and 800deg C

    77. ahundredthidiot says:

      OT

      Mortuaries are less full than this time last year.

      Just think about that for a second.

    78. ben madigan says:

      @Mia who mentioned “the special treatment of NI”
      Although I agree with you on practically all points you raised,
      I would, however, ask you and indeed all Scots not to resent this outcome of the Brexit negotiations.

      Even though NI as a whole voted against Brexit as Scotland did,
      Scots should please remember that “the special treatment of NI” was not due to any particular regard the UK holds for NI.Nor was it due to any favours to the DUP that supported Brexit and May’s government. On the contrary, it has “sold the DUP down a river”.

      This “special status for NI” is directly linked to achievements in Irish struggles to break the Union by constitutional means and physical force since the 1801 Act of Union.

      It is due to the 1998 British-Irish treaty which was linked to the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement.
      This came after 30 years troubles/civil Strife/War and 50 years Orange State domination in NI, which followed upon the 1920 Government of Ireland Act that established for the 1st time a “special status for NI, with its own parliament,paramilitary police force etc”.

      The 1920 Government of Ireland Act was achieved due to the Irish War of Independence and the Easter Rising and so on back in time through Parnell and his Irish Parliamentary Party’s constitutional activity, the Land War, the Fenians, the Young Irelanders and Catholic Emancipation right back to Robert Emmet, executed in 1803 for organising an uprising, a mere 2 years after the 1801 Irish Act of Union.

      So the “special status of NI” is one more break in the chain the English forged to hold Ireland.

      Scotland is devising her own, different way of breaking her own Chain of Union

    79. Bob Mack says:

      @Ahundredtheidiot,

      Covid danger is not just about death and mortuaries. It is also about long term debilitation, which can be serious.

      My daughters friend caught it at work as a nursjng sister in hospital. Younger very fit healthy woman. She has been off work for 5 weeks ,and has lung damage.

      She has to have physio every week for this.

    80. Dan says:

      Whit’s aw this, a magic new previously hidden Tier 4 level in a 3 Tier system for England.
      wonder if the food and power supplies start getting sketchy wi’ their “Brexit” they’ll implement the Marshall Plan Tier System which goes aw the way up tae eleven!

    81. cynicalHighlander says:

      Since Postcodes PH IV and AB are classed as Highlands and islands Tier 4 can’t be delivered here.

    82. Wee Chid says:

      I’m all for a full lockdown but don’t see why an exception should be made for an English holiday and not a Scottish one – shows how Anglicised we’ve become.

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack –

      If The Blessed Nicola told you to go and jump in the nearest river you’d give it some thought, wouldn’t you?

    84. Fireproofjim says:

      Look again at that cartoon, expand the picture and look at the incredible artistic skill of Chris Cairns in creating the embossed lettering on the mace.
      The technical difficulty of doing that proves his genius.
      I am constantly in awe of such a craftsman.

    85. Alf Baird says:

      Mia @ 6.39

      Aye, it does seem strange that, after winning three successive National Party majorities, Scotland’s elected sovereign representatives still prefer colonial diktat.

      Being scolded for lifting the mace seems rather like a Scots schuil-bairn being sent to stand in the corner by an Anglophone teacher for daring to say ‘aye’ or ‘naw’.

      Maybe its the colonial mentality that’s holding them back?

    86. Davie Oga says:

      Bob Mack says:
      19 December, 2020 at 7:42 pm
      @Ahundredtheidiot,

      “Covid danger is not just about death and mortuaries. It is also about long term debilitation, which can be serious.”

      I had it in September. It took at least a month before I felt like I was getting back to normal. I’m 48, physically fit, non smoker. It was a struggle to walk the 1/4 mile to the petrol station and back to get milk. Know someone else who had it (fit builder) hospitalised, took 2 months for them to be well enough to be able to put their bins down the end of the drive.

    87. James Che. says:

      Mia the Scottish goverment/Parliament has given its sovereignty to England’s parliament by asking permission for a referendum section 30,
      However the sovereign Scottish people have not given away their sovereignty to Westminster parliament, these two sovereignty’s are distinct from each other.
      We the people can decide or choose whom governs us any time we like, under the claim of right, here in Scotland, in layman’s terms that means you have superiority above governments.
      If Scottish people were to choose to take this action as a nation of people, there is very little the Scottish Parliament or the English/British Parliament could do about it, as it is wrote into the Scotland act, it is in legislation in uk Parliament it is also in the Crones report, it was part of the impact from the treaty of the union, and in all these references, nowhere does it say the Scottish Parliament or goverment are sovereign
      It specifically states the Scottish people have that claim of right.
      So the two sovereignties are very distinct.
      The remnants of people’s sovereignty can be seen in Britain elsewhere, governments are chosen by people through the right to vote, (supposedly) Brexit was put to the people to vote on and decide.
      Police in Britain police by consent of the people (supposedly)
      The difference between these old remnants of law in Britain from the past that are vague in their construction compared to the position we hold in Scotland, is ours is defined into legislation. The Scotland act, the crones report, passed through Westminster in 2018. And was part of the agreement that constructed the treaty of the union. And is in writing.
      The new internal market bill knobbles the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament/goverment. But not
      the sovereignty of the Scottish people, as we are able to choose a different government from any that exists at present.
      My hope is that once enough people in Scotland realise their distinct sovereignty over governments, we will declare that we no longer recognise the present ruling governments, and we will temporarily choose a people/citizens parliament.
      Because the Scottish Parliament/goverment does not hold sovereignty it can not do this, it would be construed as UDI.
      However the sovereignty of the Scottish people allows for this to come into being in a legal manner. With our picking up weapon or fight,

    88. bipod says:

      Didn’t realise having some fatigue after having a chest infection was considered grounds to shut down a nation for an entire year. What a brave new world we all live in.

      So we have had 2 lockdowns in the past few months, neither made any difference to the “case” rate. Wales had their firebreaker a few months ago, that definitely didn’t “control the virus” they actually were in a worse situation coming out of it than going into it and no we are all going into another lockdown before anything has even happened yet. How many lockdowns do we need to have before people start to consider if all of this is the right thing to do.

      We supposedly have this miracle vaccine now that is going to fix everything by April and thats why I am not allowed to complain about lockdowns because it will all be back to normal soon. We are now 9 months into this going into a 4th lockdown and it looks like this could go on forever.

    89. Saffron Robe says:

      I was reading Confused’s link (https://www.unz.com/chopkins/year-zero/) to C.J. Hopkins’ excellent article “Year Zero”. As regards Covid Christmas the following passage stood out:

      “It is regularly taught in penitentiaries when the prisoners start to get a little too unruly and remember that they outnumber the guards. That’s where the “lockdown” concept originated. It isn’t medical terminology. It is penal institution terminology.”

    90. ElGordo says:

      ahundredthidiot says: 19 December, 2020 at 7:38 pm

      ” Mortuaries are less full than this time last year, Just think about that for a second”

      Ok I did. Is your point that we should consider mortuary efficiency for a second or do you have something more to add, you big inside story mortuary statistic covid denying tease that you are?

    91. cirsium says:

      @Ian Brotherhood, 8.06
      have you seen the following presentation by Dr Kory and interview of Professor Perronne?
      Efficacy of ivermectin: https://swprs.org/dr-pierre-kory-on-early-treatment/
      Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine: https://covexit.com/professor-christian-perronne-interview-part-1/
      https://hcqmeta.com

      Given the early and prophylactic treatment options already available, people should not have to die or be damaged by the virus nor is the societal house arrest necessary.

    92. Mia says:

      @James Che

      My point is that our popular sovereignty counts for very little if those who we elect to safeguard it are determined to hand it over to England instead.

      In my view the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish Government and our Scottish MPs had no right to hand that sovereignty away.

      I don’t much care if it is the “sovereignty” of our parliament/government or Scotland’s sovereignty because for me it is all one and the same.

      The parliament of Scotland is elected because we exercise our sovereignty. It is us, the people of Scotland who elects them, not Westminster. As that parliament was reconvened by demand of the people of Scotland and by democratic vote, it is also my view that any attempt of England MPs to curtail its powers or close it down a posteriori is ultravires and unlawful because it goes directly against the sovereignty of the people of Scotland that chose to have that parliament by democratic vote.

    93. Meg merrilees says:

      Lenny @10.53 am
      I’ve thought for a long time bow that the Gender re-alignment issue has come about in this period because of microplastics in everyone’s food, water, air, clothes etc…

      We’ve known for a long time that plastic pollution – be that from phthalates lining the insides of cartons/tins or other food grade plastics – has been seeping into the waters around this island. We know that, for some time now, fish are appearing with both sets of sex organs and that some of the chemical pollutants in the water are endocrine disrupters which affect our hormones. We know that microplastics are being found in surprising amounts on the seabed and are penetrating the food chain.
      Perhaps those people currently wanting to realign their gender are actually ‘the canaries in the coal mine’ and have had their systems disrupted by chemicals/plastics/polluted foodstuffs. Only time will tell.

    94. ahundredthidiot says:

      Davie Oga…..yet you live and breath still.

      …and so does Bob Macks friend. I had it too, wiped me out for three or four days.

      None of this, however, merits an economic suicide. that, will, bring, real, deaths.

      catch a fucking grip on yourselves – you sound like little girls.

      No, to ElGordio re efficiencies, Funeral Directors still remain to be lazy cut throat bastards who continue to use mortuaries as storage depots.

      But I do know when you will all fuck up and realise how stupid you are – it will be when you cannot leave the house – ever – and you will have your ‘allocated necessaries’ delivered to your door. You will note your local super store putting the ‘delivery bays’ in as we speak. Don’t be expecting meat though.

      it’s called ‘Sustainable Development’ and it’s all a great big fucking scam.

      COVID, while real – has been hijacked – only a fool would think otherwise.

      and btw, a face mask is like trying to catch tadpoles with a fucking shark cage.

      I fucking despair at how stupid, panicky and dangerous people are. Agent K was right.

    95. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack and all the other resident WOS lockdown cheerleaders –

      If the new measures are so urgent that the FM has to interrupt all normal programming on a Saturday dinner-time and Jason Leitch goes to the bother of wearing a tie, how come the actual restrictions aren’t coming into force until Boxing Day? What’s that all about?

      Some of us have been trying, ever since March/April, to post links to the latest revelations about all sorts of aspects of this, and we’re always met with the same withering – often angry and abusive – dismissal from you ‘experts’.

      Your war cry is ‘all the evidence shows!’, yet you never actually show any of it. Not one of you has ever submitted a link to a source which isn’t blatant shitery of the sort punted into abody’s heids 24/7 by the global msm.

      And yet here on WOS, where we, more than anyone else on this planet, are aware of just how sleakit and manipulative Scotland’s FM can be, you expect us to suspend our disbelief on this one issue because, er, well, she’s ‘better than Boris’?

      To see such a dearth of critical thinking on this subject, in this place, is depressing.

      It’s now over two months since the World Health Organisation agreed with John Iaonnadis, that lockdown doesn’t work. The following link also has an embedded link to a very short video by Irish biochemical engineer Ivor Cummins – his analysis could easily be applied to the Scottish data with very similar observations.

      https://mothwo.blogspot.com/2020/10/john-ioannidis-vindicated-who-now.html

      Here’s the original Iaonnadis paper, as approved by WHO.

      https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

      If anyone cares to respond to this comment, please make reference to the links supplied – the usual ad hominem rubbish is expected and will be ignored.

    96. ElGordo says:

      ahundredthidiot:

      “But I do know when you will all fuck up and realise how stupid you are – it will be when you cannot leave the house – ever – and you will have your ‘allocated necessaries’ delivered to your door. ”

      Do you have someone that you trust that you can speak with about how you feel?

    97. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @cirsium (8.34) –

      No, I haven’t seen those before.

      Thanks.

      😉

    98. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      Are you mentally ill or something?

    99. ElGordo says:

      @ahundredthidiot

      I’ve sent you a pm, if you can come back to me

    100. Beaker says:

      No point in moaning about the lockdowns. We need some humour to get through the next month.

      I think I’ll write a guide to interesting walks around Rutherglen and Burnside. If Pitlochry can have it’s guidebooks then why not here. There are plenty of unique sights…

    101. ElGordo says:

      Yep, get yourself down the circuit

    102. ahundredthidiot says:

      El Gordo – if you want it from the horses mouth, you need to ask yourself – Who would be the horses mouth in a pandemic?

      Politicians? epidemiologists? chemists? TV people? Doctors?…nurses…LA Chiefs, NHS, UK gov, Scot Gov???

      The answer is none of the above. The answer is the Grave Digger. How busy is he?….well, I can say this with absolute certainty, not a single contingency in Scotland for grave digging (nor crematoria) was used during this pandemic, not in March, April may or now.

      And they don’t expect to be. Staff trained up, ready to go, standing by – eager to help in the great 21st Century ‘bring out your dead’ challenge.

      Not needed.

      NOT NEEDED.

      It’s all been managed within business as usual. Upsurge in March/April, yes……not since….in fact….business has been down.

      Meanwhile we have the NHS.

      No
      Health
      Service

      ……Murdering people as we speak. Hard to hear isn’t it?

      And clapped as they go. Hitler would be impressed, that’s for sure.

    103. Grey gull says:

      Thanks, Ian@8.59. I’m with you on this one.

    104. Bob Mack says:

      @Ahundredtheidiot,

      Were you in the same ward as Brotherhood?

    105. cirsium says:

      @Mia, 6.39

      Well said.

    106. ElGordo says:

      @ahundredthidiots

      ” Meanwhile we have the NHS.

      No
      Health
      Service

      ……Murdering people as we speak. Hard to hear isn’t it?

      And clapped as they go. Hitler would be impressed, that’s for sure. ”

      Yeah it is, i understand you’re frustrated, do you have someone that you can talk to about this, rather than posting, that could help things for you.

    107. Bob Mack says:

      The Ioannadus paper posted by Brotherhood is already proven to be wrong. Where in this paper does he mention mutation which every scientist knows is the problem with an RNA virus?

      He doesnt. Did he forget?

    108. Mia says:

      “But what I also find odd is the quite outstanding silence by the SNP MP/MSP`s at their abandonment of the electorate and the mandate they were elected for”

      Agree 100%. I have been questioning that abandonment since 2017, the day they allowed the A50 to go through the House of Commons and did nothing to put a stop to it.

      By nothing I mean nothing meaningful. I know they voted against it, but it stands to the obvious that in a parliament of 650 where 80% of the seats are England’s, the vote of 56 counts for nothing. If they wanted to stop it happening, the only way to do so was by refusing to accept the legitimacy of such vote in the Parliament of the UK when Scotland had refused consent for Brexit.

    109. Beaker says:

      @Mia says:
      19 December, 2020 at 9:21 pm
      “Agree 100%. I have been questioning that abandonment since 2017, the day they allowed the A50 to go through the House of Commons and did nothing to put a stop to it.”

      I’d like to see the A50 road diverted through the Commons, although it’s a helluva diversion from Stoke…

    110. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack (9.02) –

      ‘Are you mentally ill or something?’

      Classy stuff Bob.

      I wonder if that qualifies for attention from Rev under the new zero-tolerance for commenter-on-commenter nastiness?

      Not that I’m bothered anyway…

      Before you start work on your humorous guided tours of Rutherglen and Burnside, perhaps you’d like to share your thoughts on the links I posted?

    111. John H. says:

      Some people don’t like the idea of taking this vaccine. It’s beginning to look as if we won’t have a choice shortly.

    112. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Well if yir no gonnae dae as yir telt.

      Mask up
      Vaxx up

      As the auld Irishman would say to the traveller looking for a public toilet on a blustery winters night.

      “Just put yir arse to the wind and hope for the best”

    113. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      The Rev can take any action he wishes though I am qualified to make that judgement, so report away till your hearts content.

      I have answered your post. Even if you find 1000 scientists to agree with you, there are 8 million who would not.

      I suppose you skip over their papers.

      By the way ,I am no fan of Ms Sturgeon, but I would jump into any river holding your hand if she asked.

    114. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Bob Mack (9:20)

      ‘The Ioannadus paper posted by Brotherhood is already proven to be wrong.’

      Where is the source for that statement?

      Come on Bob, if you’re going to do this, at least make an effort.

    115. Hatuey says:

      Ian, I’m not quite sure you understand how debate works.

      See, generally you would be expected to put forward a theory or argument, supported if you feel necessary with citations, links, quotes, etc., and the rest of us would have a right to respond with counter-arguments, etc.

      Until tonight you seem to have assumed that you could invoke some right to make arguments and insist that those of us who disagree refrain from responding. For the sake of keeping the peace, I have refrained.

      But now in what seems like a major u-turn you seems to be insisting that we respond and are suggesting that we haven’t done so in an adequate way thus far. How odd.

      To make matters even more perplexing, you invite us to respond without actually making an argument – in a radical departure from all accepted norms, we’ve to respond to whatever your sources say rather than what you say.

      Please. I am locked and loaded and keen to engage. I beg you, give me something to engage with. In other words, say something. Make a point about covid-19. One point.

    116. ElGordo says:

      @John H. says:
      19 December, 2020 at 9:28 pm

      “Some people don’t like the idea of taking this vaccine. It’s beginning to look as if we won’t have a choice shortly.”

      Hi john, first of all, welcome to the internet! Usually on a first post people register their educational achievements, can you fill us in?

    117. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      My eyes. I read it. Next!!

    118. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey (9.37) –

      I provided two links at 8.59, one of which contains a third.

      So, fire away.

    119. Ronald Fraser says:

      AYRSHIRE NOB

      The Wee Gingerbread Man is down the road a bit.

      You are on the wrong blog,,, AGAIN.

      Now run along numbnut.

      And before ye go,,,howz Donald Trump doin the night???

    120. Mia says:

      @Ben Madigan

      I have a great deal of respect for Ireland and only wish them peace, prosperity and a united future if that is what they choose.

      But that aside, it is my personal view that if you can kill two birds with the same bullet, going for just one is wasting an opportunity and a bullet that you may not face again.

      For better or for worse, that special deal that NI got breaks one of the fundamental restrictions of the treaty of union and such breach is in fact economically and otherwise detrimental to Scotland.

      That Treaty of Union is the only written constitution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain that binds Scotland to England. This is therefore an international treaty and like every treaty, if one of the partners violates its restrictions, which England has done and systematically, the treaty is over.

      I do not wish ill to NI. I simply do not accept that Scotland must settle for the worse possible option, an option it never chose. I do not accept that Scotland must let go of potentially the best opportunity it has on its hands so others can benefit at Scotland’s expense when Scotland’s democratic will is the only one that has been blatantly dismissed and done so with the sole intention of stripping it off its assets and power.

      Selfish as it may sound, I do not see why peace and prosperity in Scotland should come second to those in NI.

      “Scotland is devising her own, different way of breaking her own Chain of Union”

      This breach of the treaty of union is a double size door that has been staring us in the face since 2016. Scotland has been given the key to open it. It is therefore totally unjustifiable for Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s MSPs and MPs to not use that key and allow yet another precedent of violation of the treaty of union without response from Scotland to be established.

    121. Beaker says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 December, 2020 at 9:27 pm
      “Before you start work on your humorous guided tours of Rutherglen and Burnside, perhaps you’d like to share your thoughts on the links I posted?”

      I’ve read them (well speed reading as second link is large).
      I’m not disputing his findings. But since there is little that can be done to stop the lockdowns I’ll get through them in my own way.

    122. Hatuey says:

      Hmmmmm just not getting this, are you, Ian…

      I was hoping you could make a point of some sort.

      Oh well.

    123. Daisy Walker says:

      @ cirsium re Dr Kory’s testimony and Ivermectin.

      Deeply controversial things have been ongoing with the scribing of Ivermectin in the USA and UK for some time now. The UK doing the cut and paste thing and following the USA.

      The drug was invented in 1979, has a fantastic success record and safety record. And won the Nobel Prize for medicine for that reason.

      However the company which owns manufacturing rights got into financial difficulties – and merged with Johnson and Johnson. I think (but from memory only) late 1980’s early 1990’s.

      With regards the treatment of Scabies – which is showing more and more resistance to the 2 main types of creams (permythrin and malathion) – according to WHO – Ivermectin is the last drug of resort, with a very high success rate. It costs about dollar a tablet to manufacture.

      Scabies is infectious and will not go away without treatment.

      In the UK – GP’s have had their authority to prescribe drugs like Ivermectin withdrawn – it now has to be a Consultant who prescribes it.

      With regards the treatment of Scabies – A classification of A1 scabies (which is what a Consultant would insist upon) – can only be done with high magnification skin scrapings/examination – NHS Tayside no longer carries out such services. Dermatology Consultants in Tayside – and Glasgow – will examine from arms length, with no magnification in any way, and fob the patient off with a diagnosis of Eczema (caused by prolonged used of Permethrin or Malathion creams).

      Should the patient become upset and insistent – the Dermatologist in UK and USA will make a psychiatric diagnosis of Delusions of Parasitosis.

      Delusions of Parasitosis was first named around 1930’s ish. When chronic alcoholics went through withdrawl symptoms and started trying to rip their stomachs open, claiming ants were crawling out of their bellies. Drug addicts have shown similar behaviour.

      The diagnosis sat on the books doing nothing for many’s the year, until about the time (although its difficult to prove as public records are strangely missing) about the time, the company which produces Ivermectin got into financial difficulties and merged with Johnson and Johnson – who make Permythrin and Malathion.

      On being diagnosed with a Psychiatric condition – the Dermatologist and GP – will make absolutely no referral to psychiatry for follow up treatment in any way.

      Current diagnosis of Delusions of Parasitosis stand at 60ish percent for women, 30 something percent for men.

      It could be argued that D of P is being used as a gagging / slander / discrediting the witness type of diagnosis.

      Ivermectin used to be licensed for prescribing in the UK. If anyone can find any public record of when and why it was withdrawn from being a licence drug for prescribing in the UK – I will buy them a whole packet of chocolate hob nobs. And that information absolutely should be in the public domain – as a matter of routine. But it is not.

      But of course – without this date – if one suspects that the diagnosis of Delusions of Parasitosis by Dermatologists started being frequently used/misused at the same time – one would not be able to find the data to evidence that in any way.

      Ivermectin CAN be legally prescribed in the UK by a Consultant – As long as they inform the patient that it is Unlicensed in the UK. That’s it. It’s not unethical, or illegal, in any way.

      In the mid 1990’s Westminster held Committees – heavily influenced by big Pharma – ostensibly to find ways to ‘cut back on the NHS drugs bill, and encourage doctors to scribe generic alternatives to common drugs.’ It is likely that it was around this time that GP’s had their authority to prescribe certain drugs reduced.

      It is common knowledge that – certainly in the last decade – big pharma is all about increasing their profit and actively admit that quick and efficient treatment of medical conditions is the antithesis of their business model.

      I did see elsewhere in another interview – that other drugs which were extremely effective in treating medical conditions have been magically removed from manufacture/license. But unfortunately I can’t remember where, or which ones.

      Ivermectin is still prescribed in other parts of the world, not just for Scabies, but for other conditions, including in other parts of the EU. And as I said earlier, a Consultant can issue it in the UK as long as they explain its unlicensed status. Privately in the UK one treatment will cost around £75. So – the not prescribing of it, is not a money issue.

      Of course if the above is correct, and that a cynical decision was made by big pharma, and dermatology – to increase sales of ineffective drugs, by withholding the effective one, and thereafter discrediting the patient with a mickey mouse phsyciatric diagnosis to discredit the patient and make them go away.

      There would be some very big, class action, law suites in the wings. For that reason all eggs are in one basket and closes ranks all round are needed.

      Its also likely that the current batch of younger GPs have zero experience of prescribing drugs like Ivermectin, and have not a clue about all of the above.

      Dr Kory’s statement – that the highest levels of patients he was treating from Critical Covid are amongst the poorest, and a high proportion of african american, latino and elderly – as much as this is chilling, the really chilling thing is its also not surprising.

      We live in interesting times.

    124. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      No figures included for care homes where most deaths occur or prisons. estimates knly from general population date whichhe admits might be inaccurate.

      Let’s be clear. The WHO approved the paper for research purposes. They did not endorse its findings as accurate.

      Two different things.

    125. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Beaker (9.46) –

      Thanks.

      That’s a response.

      You agree that lockdown is not necessary.

      Glad that’s settled.

    126. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Finished the QC early the nite laddie.

      Can you direct me to any post Ayrshire Rob has posted on WGD numnuts?

      Otherwise FOXYTROTY OSCCARY child.

    127. Tannadice Boy says:

      Well that’s our Christmas plans ripped up. We have decided to sleep on it and try to salvage something tomorrow. Hundreds of pounds down the tubes. Economic prosperity not one of Nicola’s strongpoints. The young people are really upset but there is not a lot we can do. Who is taking note of the consequences? Police Sturgeon better know the exemptions because we do. And we are printing them off now.

    128. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey (9.49) –

      Patronising deflection.

      How predictable…

    129. ScotsRenewables says:

      Yeah right TB

      The doctrine of personal exceptionalism.

      Hope you get the virus. (And that you make a full recovery…)

    130. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Cirsium

      Re the second link and within in it the article about the Trusted News initiative

      Talk about hiding in plain site. Wow. Have a read of it folks. Regardless of what your concerns are re Covid. Look at what the Gatekeepers of Information are doing re keeping you ‘educated’.

      Note the emphasis on ‘elections’.

      Whatever the facts around Covid are, or are not. The BBC is absolutely going to use it, or lose the information it deems appropriate, in order to influence elections. And they are not even hiding this as a policy.

      ‘Last summer the BBC convened a Trusted News Summit, bringing together senior figures from major global technology firms and publishing.

      The summit agreed to work collectively, where appropriate, to agree collaborative actions on various initiatives. Initiatives include:

      Early Warning System: creating a system so organisations can alert each other rapidly when they discover disinformation which threatens human life or disrupts democracy during elections. The emphasis will be on moving quickly and collectively to undermine disinformation before it can take hold
      Media Education: a joint online media education campaign to support and promote media education messages
      Voter Information: co-operation on civic information around elections, so there is a common way to explain how and where to vote
      Shared learning: particularly around high-profile elections
      TwitterLinkedIn’

    131. Fireproofjim says:

      Why is it that, whatever the topic that starts the thread, the same boring know-alls end up arguing over their limited knowledge and adamant options on the subject of Covid.
      I almost want Cactus to make a come back. Almost.

    132. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Scotrenewables 10 04
      I have already had the virus. I came to terms with my mortality a long time ago.

    133. Bob Mack says:

      The Covid virus has changed an aspect of its spike protein from aspartine acid to glycine. It allows it to enter human cells more easily.

      Clever. Just pray it does not change into something more lethal rather than something which just gains easier access to your body.

    134. ahundredthidiot says:

      …..and coming to a Town near you in the New Year…

      Test centres for healthy people ONLY, to find the deadly virus, to ramp up the numbers, to take away even more of your hard won and fought for civil liberties – all for your safety of course.

      COMICAL.

      And people will still go. They might as well bring the bricks to wall up their self imposed prison.

      NOT COMICAL.

    135. Bob Mack says:

      @Ahundredtheidiot,

      What civil liberties did you fight for that was so hard won?

      Just curious.

    136. Pete says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Idiot
      Bipod
      I totally agree with you but, unfortunately for me, I’ve had to give up the fight as, after doing talks at freedom rallys, my health took a turn for the worse and I spent a day in hospital – empty I might add.
      So, I wish you well but just be careful this doesn’t affect you adversely.
      A pleasure to read your posts.

    137. Bob Mack says:

      @Pete,

      I concur. Its refreshing to see that evolution is not inevitable.

    138. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Pete (10.29) –

      Cheers.

      Sorry to hear you’ve not been well.

      Your message is very much appreciated.

      There is so much fear around this subject generally. The scaremongering has been quite shameful and seems to be getting worse.

      I know there are many many people who feel the same as me about this but they’re genuinely scared to raise their voices, for all sorts of good reasons.

      It would be nice if more of them – especially those in public positions – would speak up.

      😉

    139. ScotsRenewables says:


      Tannadice Boy says:
      19 December, 2020 at 10:13 pm
      @Scotrenewables 10 04
      I have already had the virus. I came to terms with my mortality a long time ago.

      Well hooray. Except it is not about you, it is about who you might infect.

    140. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,
      “Scared to raise their voices for all sorts of good reasons”

      I can imagine why right enough. I can think of one very good one in particular.

    141. Tannadice Boy says:

      @ScotRenewables 10 04
      I am coming back to you on your post. It has irritated me. Not only have you wished the virus on someone else you have completely missed the point of my post. It’s the impact on young people that you have underestimated. They are not as resilient in the main, as previous generations. Granted exceptions are there. A shocking post from you. A taste of Nicola’s Scotland. And they are dying on the streets of Fundee as we speak. No more excuses. Thanks for reinforcing my belief to not vote for the SNP in May. You have clinched it.

    142. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I just feel that we (Scots) are being deflected from the most pertinent issue in our armoury – are we Scots Sovereign, or not?

      All the diversion of Covid, Brexit and, for example, the hate speak bill, are diverting us (Scots) from the immediate problem of “WHO RULES”? Scots, or some other institution?

      HOW are we (Scots) to regain our Sovereignty, as defined in The Treaty Of Union? I don’t know. Throwing it out for discussion.

    143. ben madigan says:

      @mia who said “that special deal that NI got breaks one of the fundamental restrictions of the treaty of union”

      I tried to show you that the 1801 Treaty of Union (England-Ireland) was broken by the 1920 Government of Ireland Act, which set up NI in a different way to what remained of the UK after the Republic of Ireland left it. In this light, the 1985 Anglo-Irish Agreement and the 1998 British-Irish Treaty (GFA-based) could be seen as other breaks.

      Logically speaking, the Brexit outcome for NI, which was due to hard diplomatic work by the Republic of ireland’s government and anti- Brexit parties, follows on from the others.

      Could they all be construed as breaching the 1707 (Scotland-England) Treaty of Union? Maybe so.Did Scotland raise objections to any of them?

      Having said that,I fully agree that the lack of initiatives by Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s MSPs and MPs over the past 4 years since the Brexit referendum and Scotland’s democratic vote to Remain is totally unjustifiable and apparently inexplicable, even considering what the Rev Stu has been writing about over the past few months.

      I do not know if any move will be made to safeguard Scotland’s democratic vote to remain within the EU or whether No/Slight Deal will pass ahead without response from Scotland.

      I am not particularly confident that Scotland’s current leaders will do something and as I mentioned on another thread,given the IMB, I am worried that the May 2021 elections will not take place

      Believe me, as a long time supporter of Independence coming from a Scottish background on my father’s side, I am greatly pained and saddened by the predicament Scotland has been led into and fervently wish it were otherwise.

    144. Daisy Walker says:

      At 8.24 pm Cirsuim put up 2 links.

      If you check out the second one, within it there is another link explaining why early treatment of Covid 19 has not been pursued.

      It is deeply concerning and worth a read. Covid 19 is new, and each country has been on a steep learning curve and collated data in different ways. Sifting through that is extremely difficult.

      I am a believer in Vaccines. But I have real concerns over the speed, safety, efficiency, and profit motive, with regards the vaccines for Covid being rolled out. Already we’ve seen Covid used to hold trials behind closed doors, give public contracts to tory chums, postpone vital political campaigning for Indy…

      All the while the public get softened up to losing their NHS, and all their other public services.

      I’m grateful for those with a vigilant eye, searching for evidence, and asking the awkward questions.

      Below is an extract from the article.

      ‘Trusted News Initiative are AP, AFP; BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (including major European media), Facebook, Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, and The Washington Post.

      For those who follow the development of preventative and early treatments for C19, one stunning aspect is the near simultaneous repression of information, using very similar phrasing, by various media, both social and mainstream.

      This media release, by the so called “Trusted News Initiative” reveals coordination took place since March “to tackle to spread of harmful coronavirus disinformation.”

      The focus of this “Trusted News Initiative” is mostly political. The initiative “previously has had success running a rapid alert system during the UK 2019 General Election, Myanmar and Taiwan 2020 General Elections and the US Presidential Election.”

      Yes you read well, the initiative takes pride in having coordinated a “rapid alert system” regarding the US Presidential Election.

      The initiative also indicates that such coordinated action will take place for vaccines.

      “The Trusted News Initiative (TNI) has agreed to focus on combating the spread of harmful vaccine disinformation, following its recent summit, chaired by BBC Director-General, Tim Davie.” says the media release.

      *The partners within the TNI are: AP, AFP; BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (EBU), Facebook, Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, and The Washington Post.

      See media release published on 10 Dec 2020:

      Trusted News Initiative to combat spread of harmful vaccine disinformation

      The Trusted News Initiative (TNI) has agreed to focus on combatting the spread of harmful vaccine disinformation, following its recent summit, chaired by BBC Director-General, Tim Davie.

      The TNI is an industry collaboration of major news and global tech organizations* working together to stop the spread of disinformation where it poses risk of real-world harm. With the introduction of several possible new COVID-19 vaccines, there has been a rise of ‘anti-vaccine’ disinformation spreading online to millions of people.

      Examples include widely shared memes which link falsehoods about vaccines to freedom and individual liberties. Other posts seek to downplay the risks of coronavirus and suggest there is an ulterior motive behind the development of a vaccine.

      Whilst it is important to scrutinize the science behind new COVID-19 vaccines and give voice to legitimate concerns from people wondering what a coronavirus vaccine means for them, questions about levels of immunity and whether a vaccine is appropriate for those with chronic health conditions, it is vital that audiences know they can turn to sources they trust for accurate, impartial information.

      >> Webinar with Professor Paul Marik: the Prevention & Outpatient Treatment of C19
      TNI partners will alert each other to disinformation which poses an immediate threat to life so content can be reviewed promptly by platforms, whilst publishers ensure they don’t unwittingly republish dangerous falsehoods.

      The TNI is already working together to tackle to spread of harmful coronavirus disinformation and previously has had success running a rapid alert system during the UK 2019 General Election, Myanmar and Taiwan 2020 General Elections and the US Presidential Election.

      Tim Davie, Director-General of the BBC, says: “2020 has been a year like no other. We have seen the rapid spread of harmful disinformation and a growing number of conspiracy theories online. Whether it’s a threat to our health or a threat to our democracy, there is a human cost to disinformation.

      “The Trusted News Initiative partners will continue to work together to expand our framework and ensure legitimate concerns about future vaccinations are heard whilst harmful disinformation myths are stopped in their tracks.”

    145. Bob Mack says:

      @Daisy Walker,

      I actually heard someone on social media stating the vaccine was chipped so they (who ever that is) could monitor you.

      People were responding giving positive affirmation to this lunacy.

    146. James Che. says:

      No longer is the great reset just a whispered conspiracy,
      It’s being talked about openly now.
      I just watched it on the new counterculture channel, you tube. There are many others talking of it also such as sky news Australia.

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      We’re not going to get through this pandemic and maintain cohesive resistance to English Torydum, if we take rigid and dogmatic positions that alienate different opinions. Other than those that would undermine public health, that is. So here’s a look at “Relational ethical approaches to the COVID-19 pandemic”.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7316115/

      “Key ethical challenges for healthcare workers arising from the COVID-19 pandemic are identified: isolation and social distancing, duty of care and fair access to treatment. The paper argues for a relational approach to ethics which includes solidarity, relational autonomy, duty, equity, trust and reciprocity as core values. The needs of the poor and socially disadvantaged are highlighted.

      Relational autonomy and solidarity are explored in relation to isolation and social distancing. Reciprocity is discussed with reference to healthcare workers’ duty of care and its limits. Priority setting and access to treatment raise ethical issues of utility and equity. Difficult ethical dilemmas around triage, do not resuscitate decisions, and withholding and withdrawing treatment are discussed in the light of recently published guidelines. The paper concludes with the hope for a wider discussion of relational ethics and a glimpse of a future after the pandemic has subsided.”

    148. Ronald Fraser says:

      AYRSHIRE NOB

      We know you are a Sturgeon fanatic and will not have a bad word said against her.

      So get back to the Wee Gingerbread Man.

      It’s just so homely there, isn’t it robbo.

      And did you ever pick up that pair of Nicola Sturgeon’s used knickers to put to the collection you have of your hero’s underwear???

    149. Ronald Fraser says:

      Talking of vaccines,,,is there any sane Scot going to allow any doctor to inject them with that English Oxford rat’s pish???

      Naw,,,me neither.

    150. Daisy Walker says:

      @ ‘Brian Doonthetoon says:
      19 December, 2020 at 10:49 pm
      I just feel that we (Scots) are being deflected from the most pertinent issue in our armoury – are we Scots Sovereign, or not?

      All the diversion of Covid, Brexit and, for example, the hate speak bill, are diverting us (Scots) from the immediate problem of “WHO RULES”? Scots, or some other institution?

      HOW are we (Scots) to regain our Sovereignty, as defined in The Treaty Of Union? I don’t know. Throwing it out for discussion.’

      I don’t know anymore Brian. On a personal level the wind has been removed from my sail by Yes supporters who – will concede that NS is not going to deliver (for whatever reasons) – and in the next breath say that they think a plebiscite election in May is ‘far too soon’.

      Oh and ‘look at the polls’. I’ve commented a few times over the years to folk who got tired and disheartened for them to let others shoulder the weight until they got their breath back. So, I think that’s where I’m at now.

      If the concept is, that Brexit, has to be so shit, under the tories, that there will be a Tsunami of support for Indy thereafter (by which time the country will be flattened) – I just can’t get my head round that logic.

    151. Daisy Walker says:

      ‘Bob Mack says:
      19 December, 2020 at 11:24 pm
      @Daisy Walker,

      I actually heard someone on social media stating the vaccine was chipped so they (who ever that is) could monitor you.

      People were responding giving positive affirmation to this lunacy.’

      Westminster will give the ‘chip n prick’ vaccine to one of their mates, and it won’t work as a vaccine, or a tracer. But it will make them a fortune. Wonder if we’ll get a batch number bar code tattoo to go with it. All very Matrix.

    152. Gfaetheblock says:

      It is somewhat depressing that there are so many COVID flat-earthers on this site.

      COVID is real and is killing people
      Vaccines work and have been tested
      Lockdowns work, but are shit
      Boris and Nicola are both piss poor. Both pulled areas of high infection into lower theirs in the last week or so, this was clearly idiotic, and both have been more concerned about politics and not wanting to ‘cancel Xmas’ than public health. Vainglorious fools.

    153. ElGordo says:

      Good to see everyone on here d diligently working their way through their christmas and new year bevvy tonight, whilst arguing politics and covid with members of the family. Just like the real thing 🙂

      The spirit is lost on no one 🙂

    154. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Need to be careful when we get the vaccine then.If you accidentally sneeze or sumit a wee submarine type of ship might pop out of your eye duct with some mad scientists in it.

      “Fantastic Voyage” film 1966

    155. ElGordo says:

      @ayrshire rob

      Have you ever met someone from ayrshire referred to as rob?

    156. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Yes, next?

    157. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Wee have a few elfatso’s like yirsel to.

    158. ElGordo says:

      yersel too

      anyhoo

      Did they call you Rob at school?

      Was that because there were too many Rabs, Boabs and Bobbys already?

      Why not Bert or Bertie, why did they settle on Rob?

      Bit strange, no?

    159. Scozzie says:

      Without getting into a bun fight over lockdowns, my personal opinion is that lockdown can work if it’s done hard and fast and in it for the long haul. Scotland and the rest of the uk have been doing the lockdown Hokey Cokey for months and that approach just doesn’t work. It took Melbourne 4 months of hard lockdown to get from a peak of 750 cases per day down to zero. 3 weeks ain’t even going to touch the sides. Yes the Victorian economy has been trashed but what’s happening in Scotland is also trashing the economy but a slower death. But the economy in Victoria is rebounding as we’ve now had 50 days of no community transmission. So my point is unless Scotland is prepared to do it for the long haul probably best not doing it at all. Anyway just my 2 cents ….

    160. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      In Ayrshire it’s “yirsel”

      Anyhow.Not strange, naw.

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s a bit on risk management that might help folk think there way through the pandemic. Though I don’t think I need to remind folk here that Scotland and England are politically polar opposites. Yet we are being forced to adopt English Torydum, whether we like it or not. That’s not democracy, that’s despotism.

      Cultural Cognition as a Conception of the Cultural Theory of Risk
      https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1123807

      “Cultural cognition refers to the tendency of individuals to form beliefs about societal dangers that reflect and reinforce their commitments to particular visions of the ideal society. Cultural cognition is one of a variety of approaches designed to empirically test the cultural theory of risk associated with Mary Douglas and Aaron Wildavsky.

      This commentary discusses the distinctive features of cultural cognition as a conception of cultural theory, including its cultural worldview measures; its emphasis on social psychological mechanisms that connect individuals’ risk perceptions to their cultural outlooks; and its practical goal of enabling self-conscious management of popular risk perceptions in the interest of promoting scientifically sound public policies that are congenial to persons of diverse outlooks. “

    162. ElGordo says:

      @ AYRSHIRE ROB says: 19 December, 2020 at 11:59 pm

      ” Anyhow.Not strange, naw. ”

      Not even rabbie or robby?

      They decided on Rob did they?

      You sly little jobby 🙂

    163. J Galt says:

      Gfaetheblock@11.42pm

      Tae paraphrase

      COVID is probably not real and has not killed anyone.

      Vaccines rarely work and have killed many.

      Lockdowns don’t work for if they did why are we here?

      Believers in the COVID CULT are probably naive fools.

      Wake up.

    164. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      J Galt

      Bet you believe in Santa tho?
      Well he’s no coming this year ya rocket.
      Grow up.

    165. Ronald Fraser says:

      ElGordo

      Good point you make regarding AYRSHIRE ROB.

      The Dick claims to come from the “Orange County”.

      Birth place of that famous Scottish poet, ROB BURNS.

    166. ScotsRenewables says:

      TB, so glad my post annoyed you. Go back and read it again.

      And of course you won’t vote SNP, because it is all you you you.

      ISP and AFI are both recommending SNP for the constituency vote bit na, you know best, eh?

      Wtf are you doing on an indy site? Away and peddle yer pish on Scotland In Union.

    167. ScotsRenewables says:

      Talking of vaccines,,,is there any sane Scot going to allow any doctor to inject them with that English Oxford rat’s pish???

      Naw,,,me neither

      What a real asset to the cause you are, ya tube. Yawn.

    168. ElGordo says:

      To be fair to “Rob”, this line of work was probably the only one open to him after losing the leg in Afghanistan.

      Unfortunately the intelligence that led him to sign up in the first place comes across in his posts.

    169. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Ronald Norma-Stanley-Fletcher-Broadwood Fraser

      If you had brains you’d be dangerous. Alas, we know you’re one trick pony- You hate NS.
      Big deal, so do most yoons.

      Funny that.

    170. J Galt says:

      AYRSHIRE ROB@12.13AM

      Rob, I’m grown up, and the older I get the more the mysterious this world I live in becomes.

    171. ElGordo says:

      AYRSHIRE ROB says: 20 December, 2020 at 12:24 am

      “If you had brains you’d be dangerous. Alas, we know you’re one trick pony- You hate NS. ”

      Seems like they’re still not taking this seriously..

      Best people on the job 🙂

    172. Beaker says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 December, 2020 at 9:52 pm
      @Beaker (9.46) –
      “Thanks.
      That’s a response.
      You agree that lockdown is not necessary.
      Glad that’s settled.”

      That’s not what I said. I will not dispute the findings because I’m not qualified to assess his paper. What I would do if I had time is look at his calculations; I do data analysis for a living. I don’t make assumptions that what someone says is accurate.

      As far as I am concerned, lockdown is designed to reduce the spread of infection. Think of it as contamination control. But it only works if people follow the rules.

    173. Ronald Fraser says:

      AYRSHIRE NOB

      Do try to keep up, I think you will find it is a lot more than “Yoons” who have lost all faith in Sturgeon.

      As I said at the beginning, you are on the wrong blog,,,Wee Gingerbread Man is down the corridor.

      Now Fuck Off.

      And you will probably find that the majority of Yoons just adore wee Nicola, because they are also against holding a Referendum,,, just like your Nicola.

    174. James Barr Gardner says:

      Ronald Fraser 11:34 pm
      Talking of vaccines,,,is there any sane Scot going to allow any doctor to inject them with that English Oxford rat’s pish? Naw,,,me neither.

      Huv din yer homework oan this? Naw, I thocht so !

      Weel I thocht ther cannae be ony wan a bigger earsehole than Bawlis Johnson but ther ye go thae dae exist !

      https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140-6736(20)32623-4

      I wad rather huv a wee prick in ma airm than listen tae a sassenach prick who kens feck awe aboot feck awe !

    175. Ronald Fraser says:

      ScotsRenewables 12.18

      If you want to fill your body with that English Oxford rat’s pish vaccine then go ahead.

      I for one will never let a drop of that english rat’s pish near my body.

    176. ElGordo says:

      @ James Barr Gardner

      Thanks James, that was most lovely.

    177. ElGordo says:

      and authentic too

    178. Tannadice Boy says:

      @ScotsRenewables 12 15
      You are drunk. I forgive you. After all its almost Christmas. I don’t have to explain my Independence credentials to you but they are there. I have the photographic and video evidence. You are a Nicola lapdog we can all see that.

    179. ElGordo says:

      @Ronald Fraser

      Did they call you Ronald at school?

    180. Col.Blimp IV says:

      They wan’t to avoid propagating “dangerous falsehoods”.

      In my book all the Remianiac scaremongering to the point of cheerleading in favour of shortages and prices rising after Brexit Day, are most likely dangerous falsehoods propagated by fools who are dedicated followers of faux-left middle class political trends.

      Is all but guaranteed to come true – because they have given the exploiters the green light to shaft us. For no reason other than to flex their self-imagined moral and intellectual superiority … with no consequences to the spivs because they now have a licence to swindle.

      Makes you wonder if the SNP’s tacticians are on somebody else’s payroll.

      What will they in a fortnight if nobody says “lets slap big export tariffs on our stuff” and wrap it up in miles of red tape, so that the Brits either won’t be able to afford, or can’t be bothered with the hassle attached to buying our stuff?

      Or a “deal” is struck or another extension of the negotiation period is agreed

      And these eedjits want me to vote for them TWICE … It’s only the lack of any credible alternatives, that puts them in the frame along with Bawbag Slogan for the attention of my pencil on the constituency ballot.

    181. ElGordo says:

      @Blimp

      This is WOS comments, not daily mail.

      Logout and login again.

    182. ElGordo says:

      @Blimp

      On reflection, that’s actually quite good if you re-read it in the style of the fast show very, very drunk character (arsehole).

    183. Robert graham says:

      As it’s after midnight and as nobody’s sticking to Topic a comment up page ,I can’t be arsed looking for the usual stupid bloody name a lot of folk seem to hide behind , anyway the comment was

      Vaccines work and have been tested

      HA HA

      So states the resident Scientific Advisor

      Remember the mantra

      Trust Your Government

      A prime candidate for a frontal lobotomy ” open up insert brain ” next patient please nurse

    184. bipod says:

      So supposedly there is a new strain of the virus doing the rounds and apparently it is 70% more infectious than the normal one (they still haven’t provided any evidence to back up that 70% claim).

      Makes me wonder will the vaccine even work on this new strain if it is so much more different and dangerous than the last. Will we have to be locked down for another 9 months waiting for a new vaccine, maybe by then the virus will have mutated again as it has already done over a hundred times since march, we could be doing this forever.

      Perpetual lockdown is no way for people to live. Maybe we could have spent a fraction of the money that we have borrowed trying to keep the nation alive during this lockdown on something like doubling NHS capacity so that it doesn’t get “overwhelmed” and let all the people who aren’t vulnerable get on with their lives. But that is too obvious, destroying the economy, ruining peoples lives, banning background music and banning board games at christmas is obviously a much better way to go.

    185. James Che. says:

      Do the people of Scotland have, hold sovereignty.
      Yes,
      Do people research all the treaty’s, reports, legislation, Scotland Act, political speeches or court cases, to gain information on more precise meaning of Scottish sovereignty.
      No.
      Do people confuse Parliamentry sovereignty with the private sovereignty of the Scottish people.
      Yes.
      Do people presume because we voted for the Scottish devolved goverment that we used up all our sovereignty
      .yes,
      Do people think that because we voted on independence in 2014, that we used up all our rights of sovereignty to ever vote on it again.
      Yes. Apparently.
      Is Scottish sovereignty legal and in writing?
      Yes.
      Does it state you can only use it once,
      No.
      Does it have a time limit stated for its use.
      No.
      Does it state that a devolved government can use private Scottish sovereignty as its own sovereignty.
      No.
      Does it state that you have the right to choose whom governs you.
      Yes, you can choose.
      Does the Scotland act state the devolved government is sovereign.
      No.
      Does the Scotland act acknowledge the claim of right of the Scottish people.
      Yes.
      Is the sovereign claim of right for the Scottish people in legislation in the uk.
      Yes.
      Ask the questions in detail.
      When we all realise that the Scottish people are sovereign and have the right to choose whom governs us, then our sovereignty stops being dormant,

    186. CameronB Brodie says:

      One thing I’m certain of, is if we allow ‘our’ government to conflate biological sex with gender-identity in law, and proscribe liberal science as hate speech, Scots will never enjoy the benefits of their political sovereignty or democracy. So here’s a look at “Feminist innovation in philosophy: Relational autonomy and social justice”.

      https://genderinstitute.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/Mackenzie_Feminist-innovation-in-philosophy.pdf

      “Feminist philosophy has opened up new areas of investigation across a wide range of sub-fields in mainstream Anglophone philosophy, Continental philosophy and applied ethics. Yet, despite the fact that over the last three decades feminist philosophy has challenged and transformed many sub-fields of the discipline, its impact within the discipline is often patchy, and feminist philosophy is regarded by some philosophers as “not real philosophy”.

      Several factors might account for this phenomenon, including the under-representation of women in the discipline, the chilly climate for women in some quarters of the discipline, a gender-stereotyped culture within the discipline of rewarding those perceived to be “smart”, and the devaluation of the knowledge claims made by feminist philosophers.

      This article focuses primarily on the final factor, using relational autonomy theory as an illustrative example. This feminist conceptual innovation has challenged and transformed mainstream conceptions of autonomy. However, its impact within the discipline has been less significant than its impact in other fields.”

    187. twathater says:

      James Che and Mia I agree with everything both of you say in relation to the sovereignty of the PEOPLE of Scotland , Breeks and others have been posting about it for YEARS , HOWEVER the only way to usurp and overcome what is being done to Scotland by NS and the SNP SG is to either VOTE them out of power ( and if you read WGD or many many comments on twatter and the like the apologists will NOT sanction or support that)

      The ONLY other legal way is through the courts of the UN and the EC , but WE need a legal brain with the ability and determination to LEAD a contingent of REAL FOCUSED independence supporting people through that process

      There are some legal experts visit this blog and I personally have BEGGED them to take up our and their cause , but responses there have been none

      The ONLY other way to DEFEAT Sturgeons capitulation to WM is for Alex Salmond to come back and alongside Stuart Campbell either form a new party or publicly be invited to head and lead the ISP , that would cause ructions in the SNP , Reawaken and revitalise the YES cause , Encourage greater membership of the ISP ,And give people an alternative to the walking dead ,AND best of all it would PRODUCE the best REVENGE for the despicable manipulated accusations he has suffered

    188. Effijy says:

      Here we go again with only isolate those vulnerable?

      Do you guys follow the news at all?

      I watch a show yesterday with various long term and in some cases maybe
      Permanent illness’ on Young fit healthy people.

      On detailed story was of a female 30’s something Doctor who kept herself fit
      Caught Covid and it attacked her spine.
      She can barely walk months after testing positive and suffers extreme exhaustion after walking
      200 yards.

      She would never have been selected as vulnerable!
      It can attack healthy hearts and lungs and other vital organs.

      Do you expect us to go about as normal with a lottery ticket for death or permanent damage
      to your health or continue to hope new vaccines are coming in
      just a few months?

      On Monday, the 68,000th UK citizen will die of Covid 19.
      This represents 1% of the population.
      Although Europe has Belgium and Italy with higher percentages of death, they haven’t hid
      20,000 excess deaths like Boris and the Tory corruption party.

      If I can make this prediction in the Tory manner,
      I’m working very hard on this, we now have world leading projections about this and we can announce today, which may change tomorrow, if Whack a Mole isn’t working, that the true UK
      death rate will reach 100,000 before St Valentine’s Day.

      Thank goodness right wing billionaire Rupert Murdoch, the corrupt news manipulator born in Australia and with US citizenship has been selected by England’s NHS for priority vaccination.
      Doctors and Nurses can wait as he does so much for us showing the wealthy how to pay no tax.

    189. Willie says:

      And so as per reports in the Times “ officials broke data protection law in a dispute with Alex Salmond over access to evidence relating to an inquiry into the government’s handling of harassment complaints against him.

      The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO), the watchdog, ruled that the SNP administration “infringed data protection law” as it delayed providing the party’s former leader with a copy of personal information that he was entitled to under a subject access request.

      Mr Salmond, 65, asked for documents on June 19; all the relevant material was provided five months later, weeks before the ICO issued its ruling.

      The commissioner said that it would not take any further action beyond writing to the government urging it to learn from the ruling but told Mr Salmond that he was within his rights to take the government to court.”

      Yep, all more shocking stuff exposing the Salmond stitch up and attempts to cover up. stuff. This is a Scottish Government that breaks the law, feels comfortable and able to break the law, and then when exposed makes every attempt to cover up. And has the Rule of Law do anything to lock up and or punish the perpetrators. No it hasn’t.

      Maybe Gauleiter Nicola should have just send the blackshirts round to bludgeon her rival leaving him as an example to others. It’s all out of the same playbook. Unless stopped it’s dangerous , dangerous road to travel. Not just for society exposed to such abuse but also for the practitioners and supporters of dark deeds.

    190. Willie says:

      And meanwhile with Brexit chaos looming Boris Johnson’s Government all of a sudden finds a new super-strain COVID virus, and announces effective lockdown of the whole of the London and the South East.

      And then hours later, Gauleiter Sturgeon’s Vichy Government issues notice of a similar lockdown.

      Funny old world when in the shadow of Brexit and the lengthening queues and chaos at ports both the UK and the Scottish government announce effective lockdown, with measures to extend well into mid January and beyond.

      No wonder Sturgeon is talking about a reinforced police presence and it is not difficult to predict that the army may soon be in deployment too. But all because of COVID you realise.

      Time to stock up folks this is Brexit lockdown and it isn’t going to be pretty.!

    191. Sensibledave says:

      …. More tin foil or William please!

    192. Stuart MacKay says:

      Effijy

      You’re out by a factor of 10. 68,000 is 0.1% of 68 million.

      All this lockdown works/does not work is kind of counterproductive. It’s been an exhausting year but if I recall correctly lockdowns are only designed to slow the progression of the virus so we don’t get the medical services into the state that Italy suffered where they were so overwhelmed everybody (stroke victims, etc.) was dying.

      Perhaps if this virus was as fatal as the 1918 flu then people would have taken it more seriously and we’d have gotten to a stage where absolutely everybody stayed in complete isolation for 4-8 weeks so the pandemic would burn itself out. Describing these on/off restrictions as a lockdown is a bit of a stretch.

      However, if you take a step back, all the stuff like freedom protests, trusted news initiative, RFId chips in vaccines, etc. is not craziness in itself. Some things are simply bat-shit insane but really this is society trying to come up with ways of dealing with the flood of information that the internet allows. The existing power structures are grasping to put things back the way they were but that’s simply not going to happen. New ways will have to be found to manage the flood of ideas, sift through the chaff and come to some kind of consensus on whats “true”. Things like the “Trusted News Initiative” are a joke. Putting “Trusted” in the title is utterly brain-less. Next we’ll be seeing BP describing itself as the “Eco-Oil Company” – oh, wait a minute, https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/sustainability/environment.html

      So to make sense of all this, in my opinion, don’t look at what’s being said but why it’s being said. Then things like Freedom Marches etc. start to get interesting.

      As for burning 5G cellphone towers – sorry, I don’t have an answer for that.

    193. Effijy says:

      The Crap Hancock spouts on Marr.
      He was up at 5am today checking the new restrictions were in place?
      What did he do?

      A, Turned on the Radio to find out?

      B, Looked out the Window to see if anyone was walking about?

      C, Phoned Boris to ask?

      D, Read the early edition newspapers?

      This clown is in danger of burning himself out- being incompetent and spouting crap.

    194. Effijy says:

      Unbelievable Hancock again.

      Boris found out about the new strain on Friday, although it went to
      Hancock 1 week before, and he was able to make the decision to
      introduce tougher measures only 24 hours later.

      Hancock says it was remarkable that Boris reached this decision within
      24 hours. It was the fastest government decision he has ever seen?

      What? If only Boris took 24 hours to decide the bus coming to hit him in the
      Middle of the road may or may not hit him.

    195. Effijy says:

      Hancock – Education Secretary is working incredibly hard.
      FFS are these Tory Ministers getting a bonus for every time they say this?

      Teachers have been asked to recruit thousands to help with the teaching
      backlog. They only have the next 3 weeks to do this so he suggests that
      they will be determined to work the holidays to do this?

      Teachers have been abused repeatedly thru this.
      Their funding continually cut and their wages capped
      and the working a high risk area for contracting the virus.

      Even if they are willing to be further abused, are recruits looking for work during
      the holidays? Are they willing to put themselves at risk? Will there be time for proper
      Interviews and background checks?
      NO, NO and NO.

    196. Ronald Fraser says:

      The dirty stinkin English gave us Brexit,,,and now have given the world a new variant of Covid19.

      The world should just turn it’s back on Engerland and turn the whole fuckin place into a Leper Colony.

      If you spot an Englander on Scottish soil, then don’t approach.

      Stay well away and call the infectious control police and get the bastard dumped back across the border.

      Keep Scotland safe,,, keep the Englanders out.

    197. Davie Oga says:

      Spot on Willie. There’s no deal and their never was one to made. The have cake/and eat it exceptionalism of the British establishment has seen to that. I’d put the Holyrood incumbents in that category as well. They think they are fucking special.(Gold standard, transwomen are women, best in the world, blah, blah, blah.) Not content being normal and equal with everyone else. You’ll hear a lot of “world beating, best in the world, world class, unique” hubristic jingo nonsense over the next couple of weeks.

      Fish is small fry, a red herring.

      For Brexit to work, the UK need to be able to undercut the EU and still have access to the single market. The EU will not allow that to happen. There is no trust left.

      Scotland had a chance to escape the madness and it’s been thrown away in an unforgivable manner. The Murrells’s have probably bought shares in Spam with the referendum money.

    198. bscotfree says:

      I miss those days when Hamish starred in Chris’s drawings.

      No chance the Scottish government will grasp the thistle under the current leadership.

      Sturgeon and her gang have failed on every front, both in policy and action. She would be well advised to resign on health grounds to avoid the humiliation of being thrown out in disgrace. The truth and facts are slowly becoming known and she will be found out in public. The unionists will have a field day and I will toast her departure with a large dram. Good riddance to a self-serving individual who has conned voters for a very long time.

      Apart from a few genuine SNP politicians like Angus MacNeil, Kenny MacAskill, Joanna Cherry, Philippa Whitford, Joan McAlpine and Chris McEleny (any others?) the rest of them are unwilling to dissent from the direction of travel chosen by Sturgeon. They have done zero to promote another vote on independence.

      Well done Denise Findlay @GraceBrodie who has been very effective in actively working to root out at least some of the careerists. Close scrutiny of SNP politicians is now more than ever required to keep them real.

      Excellent post @ 6:39 pm from Mia. Totally agree that SNP MPs should no longer sit in the Westminster parliament and should instead return to Scotland and work constructively for independence.

      A wish for the new year …
      The remedy for the current debacle is for Alex Salmond to return to the SNP and be elected party leader and FM again, closely supported by the aforementioned politicians. He is vastly experienced and respected and is trusted by the yes community. He was stabbed in the back but has been found not guilty in court and has nothing to be ashamed of. The unionists will bleat and smear but thats their normal modus operandi so to hell with them.

      I believe Alex was too reasonable with Westminster in 2014. Next time around he should be far less accommodating with them on currency arrangements. It really is long past time to ‘grasp the thistle’ and leave this corrupt and false union.

      I no longer favour a referendum as the vehicle to independence. Sturgeon’s legal gold standard section 30 nonsense has soured that for me. We should rely on a plebiscitary vote in Holyrood which is a perfectly legitimate vote which will be respected internationally. If unionists don’t wish to engage then their abstention is a non-vote.

      I hope Alex is considering …

    199. Beaker says:

      @Stuart MacKay says:
      20 December, 2020 at 9:52 am
      “However, if you take a step back, all the stuff like freedom protests, trusted news initiative, RFId chips in vaccines, etc.”

      Some of the ideas are crazy, but I think they’ve got their ideas from films.

      Demolition Man springs to mind (RFID chips), but things are more like World War Z at the moment.

    200. susanXX says:

      Good post bscotfree @10:35am

    201. Ottomanboi says:

      Effijy
      Surely by now it must be dawning on you that there is something awry with the process. We are dealing with a generic flu type virus. Flu, in various genotypes has been around for millennia, the elderly and infirm being the most likely to experience the worst symptoms, so why the sudden concern over this strain?
      The stats emerging from the political haze do not suggest anything worrying in fact they conform to the norm for this type.
      Look elsewhere and you see fortunes being made by global business. Governments and their agents appear to be in the pockets of these enterprises. Far more concerning than any chance of catching a cough.
      Humanity is being systematically reprogrammed and worryingly it seems to be effective with many.
      Sturgeon, Johnson, Hancock, Ferguson are all reading from the same globalist script.

    202. Wlllie says:

      Absolutely correct Dave Oga.

      Brexit is about the UK becoming a lie wage economy selling into the EU market. Reduced worker conditions, protections with production standards of pesticide, herbicide and hormone use akin to the US.

      But the EU aren’t having it. Never were and a belligerent Britain is now isolated.

    203. Hatuey says:

      “ We are dealing with a generic flu type virus. Flu, in various genotypes has been around for millennia…”

      This is a man that not only knows his virology and science, he knows the history of mankind too, going back forever. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you “the expert”.

      What we call Spanish Flu killed about 50 million, many of them young people in their prime, but don’t let that spoil the show… any idea what percentage of the population 50 million was in 1919?

    204. Bob Mack says:

      @Ottomanboi,

      “why the concern over this new strain?”

      Its a bit like the difference between being knocked down by a motorbike or a lorry.

    205. Breeks says:

      twathater says:
      20 December, 2020 at 4:26 am

      ….The ONLY other way to DEFEAT Sturgeons capitulation to WM is for Alex Salmond to come back and alongside Stuart Campbell either form a new party or publicly be invited to head and lead the ISP

      I think the problem with regards to a Constitutional Lawyer is being perfectly illustrated by Martin Keating’s efforts, and the Scottish Government’s capacity to obfuscate and obstruct his progress.

      Not only is Scotland stymied by having no progressive direction coming the inept Nicola Sturgeon pretending to be a strategist, but she is also a pipe blockage on any 3rd party initiative which to stand any chance of being successful, properly needs to be not only sanctioned and approved of by a truly Scottish Government, but actively promoted by it.

      I’ve made the point numerous times before, but if Scotland’s own bloody government cannot be persuaded to recognise Scottish Sovereignty, (and shame and disgrace upon them that they don’t), then sorry peeps, there isn’t any other Nation on the planet who will. We are undone by our own “champions”.

      Boris Johnson currently holds a bogus veto over Scottish Democracy, and Nicola Sturgeon holds an equally bogus veto on Scotland instigating a Constitutional dispute over sovereignty. Let me emphasise the words bogus, because Johnson has no legitimate veto over Scotland, and Sturgeon has no legitimate veto over Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, but unfortunately both politicians are either tragically ignorant of the constitutional realities, or else they are wilfully distorting the reality to suit their own agenda. Whatever the backstory, we have two useless rogues in positions of power, and that’s a big problem when the office they hold by itself commands so much inherent authority.

      Sturgeon needs to get out the way, or be got out the way, and Constitutional Test Cases like Martin Keatings, (or better yet, a full blown Constitutional dispute over Sovereignty submitted to the UN), need to happen urgently, and be actively backed by our Scottish Government.

      That our “Scottish” government is actively obstructing Martin Keatings frankly beggars belief and defies all logical thinking other than our pro Independence “Scottish” Government not being all that it appears.

      Frankly, without trying to provoke animosity, I genuinely cannot get to grips with the likes of the WGD “Wheesht for Indy” brigade. The alarm bells going off around Sturgeon are deafening, and ploughing on regardless seems such a weak and forlorn strategy.

      Sturgeon, by accident or design, has failed us, and that failure is so dismal, complete and unmitigated that it properly needs a Stewards Inquiry, – but that can come later. Right now, we need her replaced, urgently, by a Constitutionally savvy fighter, and this whole constitutional mess Sturgeon has presided over is elevated to a full blown Constitutional State of Emergency.

    206. Ronald Fraser says:

      Ottomanboi 10.44

      This new variant that the Englanders have dumped on the World is 70% more contagious than ordinary Covid19.

      And you are saying there is nothing to worry about.

      That’s the kind of thing Boris Johnson would say.

      And as for their Oxford vaccine is concerned,,,it will be completely useless against this new English variant.

      The best thing that could happen is to close all the exit points out of Engerland and throw the keys away.

    207. Ronald Fraser says:

      Scotland has to be the unluckiest Country in the World, having a land border with the detested English.

      How unlucky is that???

    208. Bob Mack says:

      The original Spanish flu was severe but manageable until guess what? ,Thats right it mutated.It went on to kill millions.

      Was that just a resetting of humanity as well?

      It was spread by troop movements all over the world.

      This virus has the potential(mark that word) to be just as bad or worse.

    209. Bob Mack says:

      @Breeks,

      Keatings is stealing the whole SNP election strategy for one more mandate.

      They would of course fail to us it in any event.

    210. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Ronald Fraser

      As the old joke goes – when the Archangels broke into his study and God explained his grand plan to them. They questioned why he was giving so-many riches to the upper part of that wee insignificant island off the coast of Europe.

      God told them: “Yes, but wait until you see who I am giving them for neighbours.”

    211. Hatuey says:

      It must be comforting to think everything is controlled by Bilderberg, Big Pharma, and/or Lizards. It’s very much like believing in God, when you think about it. And, of course, you get to play the part of the rebel without a cause. Good fun.

      There’s no such fun for those of us who are grounded in reality. The new strain of this virus scares the life out of me. All we have is hope, that the vaccine will still work, that those who have recovered from coronavirus before have immunity, that we can contain this, etc.

      What we are watching unfold today feels like the beginning a whole new miserable phase.

    212. Dunadd says:

      Starmer to offer scots devolution upgrade.
      Will it be guaranteed by 3 morons on the front page of a comic?
      Starmer should be offered therapy.

    213. Ronald Fraser says:

      Socrates MacSporran 11.17

      And England will STILL call itself an island long after we become an independent nation.

    214. robertknight says:

      Ronald Fraser

      You’re beginning to sound like a bit of a d1ck. Suggest you go for a wee rest before your bigotry gets the better of you.

    215. Rick H Johnston says:

      Salmond will not be making a comeback anytime soon.
      The mood in the YES movement on Salmond is divided at best.
      If he’s to contribute he could stand as an independent on the North East list.
      Cherry is often quoted as a fan, but only recently railed against the “cultism” of
      both Sturgeon and Salmond.
      IMHO she is right in calling for broader more pluralism in the SNPs leadership.
      Also it’s time YES appointed spokespeople to broaden responses to political events as they impact Scotland.
      It’s not all about the SNP.

    216. Republicofscotland says:

      Well the Tory branch manager in Scotland is at it again claiming that his branch office would boycott any independence referendum that doesn’t have Johnson’s consent, in effect Ross is saying we’re not participating in a democratic referendum on independence because we know we’re going to lose it.

      In my opinion the Tory branch office in Scotland cannot be allowed to hold an entire nation hostage when it comes to holding a second indyref.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18957511.scottish-tories-holyrood-ballot-boycott-could-dent-indyref2-expert-warns/

    217. Dunadd says:

      Devolution upgrade ??

      Are seadogs and sta press making a comeback?

      Starmer in a time warp.

    218. Ronald Fraser says:

      robertknight

      Nothing wrong with me robbo.

      Was it something I said that offended you?

      This is a site fighting for Scottish Independence.

      I think you may be looking for the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website.

      That site might suit you, they also don’t like talking about Scottish Independence.

    219. robertknight says:

      Ronald Fraser

      On the stump, back in the 90’s, knocking doors on my own behalf, (manpower was sent to more winnable wards – but I came a respectable 2nd), I recall a guy who opened the door and on seeing my yellow/black rosette spouted “you’ve got my vote, I hate the f**king English”.

      I then told him that my wife was English, she was also a member of the SNP, and he could stick his vote up his backside because I’d prefer to be beaten by the Tories that be elected by bigots.

      Fast forward to 2020 and I’d thought the days when the BBC could run voxpops of random punters being asked why they wanted an independent Scotland, to the response “well, we hate the English don’t we” were over.

      Sadly, it appears that the mentality of the guy back in 1994 still exists among some of those who walk, knuckles dragging, among us.

      Forget democracy, social justice, natural resources, fairer society, London-centric economics, inward investment, land ownership, renewables, Brexit, EU/EEA membership, Nuclear Weapons, etc. etc? Nah, we just hate the English…

    220. Daisy Walker says:

      I have a genuine question re Covid Super Strain being 70% more infectious.

      By what mechanism?

      For example bubonic plague was spread by direct contact. Pneumonic plague had 2 delivery systems – spread by direct contact with contamination and also via contaminated air particles (and so was more contagious).

      Covid (Mark 1) was already highly contagious and spread by contact with contaminated items, humans and also pneumatic / air particles.

      I’m struggling to see, by what physical method, the virus can become MORE contagious. Does it physically last longer on surfaces? That would be about the only method I can think of (at the moment) that would make it more contagious. Or do the cleaners currently used no longer work on it? Or does it require less exposure for a person to develop full blown Covid, does the virus now act quicker on the body cells?

      I’m in no way down playing the dangers, just interested in the science behind the claim.

      Anyone know.

      People cannot live in a state of emergency – personally and within their communities – for protracted lengths of time. Their fight or flight system becomes overloaded, to the point where just as a drug addict needs more and more drugs to get a hit, the body becomes used to high levels of adrenalin and that becomes the new normal. The body adjusts.

      The possibility exists (and putting to one side – motive) that inflammatory language is being used to increase the ‘state of fear’ status in order to achieve the same level of population compliance that was achieved 9 months ago, because the public have adjusted.

      And the motive for that could actually be for the most conscientious of reasons, or not. I personally don’t know. But we should not be afraid to ask valid questions.

    221. Willie says:

      Just read that Belgium has joined the Netherlands and put a block on U.K. citizens entering the country. Looks very much like the UK is going to be isolated by an international blockade.

      And with ferry ports already badly chocked and in chaos because of Brexit, which incidentally the U.K. still belligerently fight, it seems very much the time for ordinary folks to double down and store provisions for the shortages to come.

      The U.K. is now fighting a war on two fronts. A war against Europe and a war against the virus.

    222. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Robertknight

      Seems you have become the latest “robbo”. Some guy this robbo he
      gets everywhere.

      Soon Ronald will only be talking to people he identifies as robbo.

      Maybe he’s a we woke afterall.

    223. Willie says:

      Furthermore it looks like the hospitals in England are now bracing themselves for an overwhelming spike in February where all basic medical care will we swamped.

      The days of screaming to get restrictions released, to eat out to help, to paying out billions for useless PPE, to paying for apps and testing that didn’t work, whilst all the time fighting a dogged anti Europe campaign are coming coming home to roost.

      Sounds like there won’t be much gender reassignment treatment or elective gender reconstructive surgery come February as the National Health may have other priorities.

      Ah well we voted for this and now is the time to atone.

    224. Daisy Walker says:

      Re Covid Super Strain – Things we know…

      The powers that be, are most assuredly using Covid for their own ends – specifically key elections.

      With 60% of EU oil reserves in Scottish territorial waters – any election that threatens Scottish Independence is KEY on the international stage. And we would be naive to think otherwise.

      If we are going to win, one of the strategies the Yes Movement is going to have to unify around – is how we deal with Covid.

      I suggest we adopt the hope for the best, prepare for the worst attitude. By which I mean, we keep asking the important questions, while at the same time, not undermining safety efforts – as best we can.

      Below is worth reading again.

      ‘Trusted News Initiative are AP, AFP; BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (including major European media), Facebook, Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, and The Washington Post.

      For those who follow the development of preventative and early treatments for C19, one stunning aspect is the near simultaneous repression of information, using very similar phrasing, by various media, both social and mainstream.

      This media release, by the so called “Trusted News Initiative” reveals coordination took place since March “to tackle to spread of harmful coronavirus disinformation.”

      The focus of this “Trusted News Initiative” is mostly political. The initiative “previously has had success running a rapid alert system during the UK 2019 General Election, Myanmar and Taiwan 2020 General Elections and the US Presidential Election.”

      Yes you read well, the initiative takes pride in having coordinated a “rapid alert system” regarding the US Presidential Election.

      The initiative also indicates that such coordinated action will take place for vaccines.

      “The Trusted News Initiative (TNI) has agreed to focus on combating the spread of harmful vaccine disinformation, following its recent summit, chaired by BBC Director-General, Tim Davie.” says the media release.

      *The partners within the TNI are: AP, AFP; BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (EBU), Facebook, Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, and The Washington Post.

      See media release published on 10 Dec 2020:

      Trusted News Initiative to combat spread of harmful vaccine disinformation

      The Trusted News Initiative (TNI) has agreed to focus on combatting the spread of harmful vaccine disinformation, following its recent summit, chaired by BBC Director-General, Tim Davie.

      The TNI is an industry collaboration of major news and global tech organizations* working together to stop the spread of disinformation where it poses risk of real-world harm. With the introduction of several possible new COVID-19 vaccines, there has been a rise of ‘anti-vaccine’ disinformation spreading online to millions of people.

      Examples include widely shared memes which link falsehoods about vaccines to freedom and individual liberties. Other posts seek to downplay the risks of coronavirus and suggest there is an ulterior motive behind the development of a vaccine.

      Whilst it is important to scrutinize the science behind new COVID-19 vaccines and give voice to legitimate concerns from people wondering what a coronavirus vaccine means for them, questions about levels of immunity and whether a vaccine is appropriate for those with chronic health conditions, it is vital that audiences know they can turn to sources they trust for accurate, impartial information.

      >> Webinar with Professor Paul Marik: the Prevention & Outpatient Treatment of C19
      TNI partners will alert each other to disinformation which poses an immediate threat to life so content can be reviewed promptly by platforms, whilst publishers ensure they don’t unwittingly republish dangerous falsehoods.

      The TNI is already working together to tackle to spread of harmful coronavirus disinformation and previously has had success running a rapid alert system during the UK 2019 General Election, Myanmar and Taiwan 2020 General Elections and the US Presidential Election.

      Tim Davie, Director-General of the BBC, says: “2020 has been a year like no other. We have seen the rapid spread of harmful disinformation and a growing number of conspiracy theories online. Whether it’s a threat to our health or a threat to our democracy, there is a human cost to disinformation.

      “The Trusted News Initiative partners will continue to work together to expand our framework and ensure legitimate concerns about future vaccinations are heard whilst harmful disinformation myths are stopped in their tracks.”

    225. Bob Mack says:

      @Daisy Walker,

      How does Covid spread ? Air droplets primarily

      See my post upthread Daisy.

    226. Stuart MacKay says:

      Republicofscotland

      Quality stuff from the Branch Manager. “Once in a generation” was total nonsense but it was actually awkward to counter unless you were prepared for it.

      A boycott? How utterly incompetent. They’ve just conceded the entire battlefield and played the card of last resort. That gives Yes plenty of time to attack them on just about every front imaginable. What happens after threatening to boycott a referendum? Boycotting Scottish Government elections, sending in the tanks? The yoons have spent so long saying no, it’s inconceivable for them so say anything different.

      Well, that’s one obstacle safely out of the way. Who’s next?

    227. Ronald Fraser says:

      robertknight

      “I then told him that my wife was English…”

      Nuff said robbo.

      As I said above,,, you seem more suited to the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website.

      That’s full of snowflakes like yourself.

      I bet you just luv wee Nikla as well.

      England is the most detested nation in Earth,,, that is just a fact of life robbo.

      You will just have to live with that.

      Now we are finding Scotland is being banned from travel to certain countries around the world because of our attachment to the detested English.

    228. 1956 Scottish Cup Final there was a crowd of 135,000,
      The Glorious Heart of Midlothian 3 celtic 1

      0 crowd today but same score.

      true story.

    229. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Scot Finlayson
      I am a neutral on this one but I am hoping for a cracking Cup Final. Lots of goals and incidents.

    230. robertknight says:

      Ronald Fraser

      Oh dear… more issues going on there than at a psychiatrist’s convention.

      Have a Happy Christmas Ronald, get well soon!

    231. Bob Mack says:

      @Robert Knight,

      I think he’s got a department store job as Santa Clsus like in Bad Santa.

    232. Stuart MacKay says:

      Grousebeater just stole Cameron’s crown and now is out Lawyer in Residence.

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2020/12/20/the-keatings-case/

      It’s actually worth wading through the legalese. I certainly got the impression that a large number of straws were enthusiastically being grasped by both governments.

    233. Ronald Fraser says:

      Now for a No Deal Brexit.

      This will really hammer home to all those hard of thinking Scots the damage being in a Union with the detested english causes Scotland.

    234. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Bob Mack

      Bob, the question was not ‘how does Covid spread?’ The question was ‘by what mechanism has Covid Super virus increased its method of spreading by 70%?’

      I’m genuinely interested in the answer, and it is a valid question regardless on where one views the dangers of Covid from.

      Kind regards.

    235. Ronald Fraser says:

      Bob Mack

      ???????????

      Did you really need to do that.

      I hate jumped up, self appointed site Polis.

    236. Ronald Fraser says:

      Don’t tell me Bob,,,,, you also married an english Wummin???

    237. Bob Mack says:

      @Daisy Walker,

      My post at 10.13pm explains it.

    238. Grouse Beater says:

      Chris, that’s one to frame, but what a state of affairs when one of our MP’s has to go to the lengths of grabbing the Mace in order to draw attention to the loss of our democratic rights!

      And on that score….

      I’ve lifted key paragraphs from the Keatings Action soon to be decided in court over whether or not Scotland must ask our sweet neighbour’s approval for a referendum:

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘The Keatings Case’ – https://wp.me/p4fd9j-pib

    239. kapelmeister says:

      If we had a referendum on the question of whether Scotland should have an independence referendum it would be impossible for unionists to boycott that without appearing utterly undemocratic as well as feart.

      The unionist parties would either have to take part in such a referendum about a referendum and pledge to agree to a binding indyref if Scotland voted to have one, or else any last pretence the unionists had of being democrats would have vanished never to return.

    240. Daisy Walker says:

      Things we know… continued.

      We know that a high proportion of our elderly population voted No, would not debate, and are the type to turn out to vote in all weathers, come hell or high water. They form the back bone of the Tory support (what’s left of it) in Scotland.

      This week, once again, the ‘leader’ of the Tory Brach Scottish Region Office has stated that ‘they’ will boycott any further Referendums on Indy in Scotland. So, there, ya boo sucks.

      To which, one can only reply, ‘Really?’ What’s that old phrase, ‘know your audience’.

      If Dross wants to continue in that vein, we should encourage him. Let him fill his boots. That generation of Voters, absolutely know the value of the ballot box. Like a blue rinse army of battle axes.

    241. bipod says:

      The truth is daisy they do not know for certain that it is 70% more contagious and haven’t published any evidence to confirm this. This is boris johnsons statement:

      NERVTAG’s early analysis suggest it could increase the R by 0.4 or more and although there’s considerable uncertainty it may be up to 70% more transmissible than the old variant, the original version, of the disease. This is early data and it’s subject to review.

      Notice the “could” and “may be up to” enough wiggle room here for johnson to say he didn’t say it was 70% more contagious when the initial hysteria has past. When of johnsons extreme pro lockdown advisors have wanted a lockdown over the christmas for some time now so it is quite convenient that this has come along at this time (I also believe this new variant was infact discovered in September?).

    242. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronald Fraser,

      What makes you think your better than an Englishman?

      As far as I can see you display the same traits in youf posts that you claim makes “them ” boorish.

    243. dakk says:

      “by what mechanism has Covid Super virus increased its method of spreading by 70%?’

      Read somewhere last week new strain has hooks on the protein spikes,sorry can’t find link.

      More concerns regarding neuro damage to young people.

    244. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Bob Mack

      ‘Bob Mack says:
      19 December, 2020 at 10:13 pm
      The Covid virus has changed an aspect of its spike protein from aspartine acid to glycine. It allows it to enter human cells more easily.

      Clever. Just pray it does not change into something more lethal rather than something which just gains easier access to your body.’

      Thanks for that.

      So with gloves, face masks, ventilation, cleaning, a degree of self isolating. How much does that 70% figure translate from what the virus is capable of in the lab, to what really happens in society – given all the precautions currently in place?

      Sorry for being pedantic re this, but language and the way the powers that be use it for their own purposes is important.

      Its a bit like saying the lion locked up in the zoo is twice as dangerous when its hungry.

      And I’m not downplaying the fact that Covid is not locked up, anymore than we are fully locked down. The safety measures can and do work, to a certain extent.

      Thanks for the info, kind regards.

    245. Beaker says:

      @Daisy Walker says:
      20 December, 2020 at 12:29 pm
      “I have a genuine question re Covid Super Strain being 70% more infectious.
      By what mechanism?”

      Perhaps the latest version has a higher survival rate (the virus that is). Some viruses don’t last very long outside of a host.

      I know that in the case of chemical contamination, anyone affected should be isolated immediately to reduce the risk of transmission. The location is also isolated, with access to and from strictly controlled, much like a crime scene. Come to think of it, forensic scientists should have been put in charge of lockdown measures.

    246. Effijy says:

      Ottomanboi

      Don’t think you read the part about serious life changing
      Long symptoms created by Covid that doesn’t apply to Flu.

      Bottom line is you make your own choices with these risks!

    247. CameronB Brodie says:

      Our perceptions of risk are inescapable tied up with our political outlook. Those on the right tend to view risk from the perspective of personal liberty, while those on the left tend to privilege safety and social justice. That’s why politics needs to take a back-seat for a while, and allow the ‘experts’ to support the rule-of-law and democracy.

      The COVID-19 pandemic: how can risk science help?
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13669877.2020.1756383

    248. Bob Mack says:

      Evolution and mutation seldom produce a weaker entity which doesnt survive. They are generally fitter, stronger and more improved for their survival and growth.

      Covid is no different.

    249. Lenny Hartley says:

      Beaker, am no expert but as this latest mutation has found a way to get into human cells faster, it will mean that it replicates in nose and throat faster so more Covids floating about in air and therefore more transmission, it might also be infectious quicker than previous variant.

    250. T.C. Nu says:

      Daisy@12:29

      ‘..For example bubonic plague was spread by direct contact..’

      Technically, spread by being bitten by infected fleas..

      Now, the Black Death was transmissable by direct contact, and that’s one of the reasons some experts say it wasn’t the Bubonic plague…the bacteria responsible for Bubonic has to bypass the skin barrier, so, yes, technically if infected fluids get into an open cut or the eyes, Bubonic could be passed by touch, but the main vector is fleas, their bites either directly inject the bacteria from their stomach contents, or indirectly from any infected fluids on their mouth parts.

    251. Effijy says:

      Do you know Scotland counts any form of death as drug related
      if traces are in the blood.
      ie if someone takes recreational drugs or had a previous addiction
      and has a hear attack, it’s called a drug related death.

      Of course England don’t count that way.
      It was raised as an issue and SNP asked for Drug Management to
      be devolved to Scotland so that improvements could be made.
      Westminster rejected this and so they control this in Scotland to our detriment.

      It like the Tories saying SNP isn’t doing enough to get high speed broadband into remote homes.
      Control of this lies in Tory Westminster but someone with no powers over it
      is claimed to be at fault?

      It’s an easy choice, are you happy for Scotland to die and be an English Colony where their vote
      Means nothing.
      Scotland has never given the Tories a majority in my entire lifetime and yet most of my life has been
      Rules by a Tory Government.
      If every single Scottish vote in Brexit was for remain, the English vote still drags us out!
      It’s absolutely insane not to control your own country and see your right to vote democratically made useless.

      Who said other countries have no right to make rules for my country?
      Only Boris and Gove talking to the EU.
      Thought it better together? 28 countries Is together!

      Take Scotland for mugs

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s a bit more on risk management.

      Risk, precaution and science: towards a more constructive policy debate. Talking point on the precautionary principle
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852772/

      “Few issues in contemporary risk policy are as momentous or contentious as the precautionary principle. Since it first emerged in German environmental policy, it has been championed by environmentalists and consumer protection groups, and resisted by the industries they oppose (Raffensperger & Tickner, 1999). Various versions of the principle now proliferate across different national and international jurisdictions and policy areas (Fisher, 2002). From a guiding theme in European Commission (EC) environmental policy, it has become a general principle of EC law (CEC, 2000; Vos & Wendler, 2006). Its influence has extended from the regulation of environmental, technological and health risks to the wider governance of science, innovation and trade (O?Riordan & Cameron, 1994).

      … when considering the relative strengths and weaknesses of the precautionary principle, we must also give equal attention to… conventional approaches to risk assessment”

    253. Willie says:

      So in addition to the Netherlands and Belgium having closed their borders to all UK citizens, Austria and Italy have now done the same with more EU countries and beyond set to follow.

      Don’t know what other folk but this looks very much like the UK is becoming totally isolated both economically and physically. But no doubt as Boris Johnson said only six or seven months ago we’ll just have to take it on our Brittanic chin.

      Batten down the hatches. Food, medicine, and even power shortages are now on the cards as ports and transport systems shut down and the combination of mismanaged COVID and a belligerent Brexit now start to play out in what will be a rocky horror show.

      No surrender, rule Britannia!

    254. kapelmeister says:

      We should be discussing the bacterial pneumonia pandemic caused by excessive mask wearing which doctors are being told not to speak up about. That’s far more of a health risk to our young folk than any over-hyped covid.

    255. robert graham says:

      Forget about attempting to make any sense of what is going on

      Too many People

      There are just too many of us on this planet

      Organisations who control Governments and they do exist ,working daily directing what happens it’s not Governments they are just a front everything doesn’t just happen .

      The most favoured way of discounting information being widely available is control ,control the media and restrict access to anything that points to some sort of political control over Governments then label anything and anyone who questions anything label them as conspiracy theory nut jobs that’s the way the whole conversation is closed down.

      Here’s a task follow one thing ,any event in history then find as much verifiable information on that one event ,it might be difficult now because with the Internet it’s simple to make stuff unless it’s archived just disappear unlike books or written records that would have to be physically destroyed a click of a mouse removes all references links and any references to the subject being researched

      Then find out how the subject has or was reported and what kind of spin and to who’s benefit , be it wars , plagues , major catastrophes, who would gain from that occurrence , was there any technology available at the time that would enable these events to happen.

      The Vietnam war was engineered for the benefit of some sections of American Industry and many linked problems , unemployment , falling economic activity not simply the American arms industry, the Rand Corporation has thought of and has run and played out through simulation every conceivable event and it’s consequences since before the First World War ,

      They ain’t sitting playing ludo during this Pandemic they have anticipated the outcome and how to manage it , we are just onlookers with little or no choice or control so you are probably better off just sitting reading a book,go for a walk or watch Netflix or Amazon Prime because there’s nothing you can do about it just enjoy yerself you are trapped so make the best of the situation

    256. Cenchos says:

      What bacterial pneumonia pandemic?

      And who is telling doctors not to talking about it?

    257. TD says:

      Ronald Fraser

      Boris Johnson blames the Europeans.
      Trump blames the Mexicans and the Chinese.
      Adolf Hitler blamed the Jews.
      Ronald Fraser blames the English.

    258. Xaracen says:

      “Evolution and mutation seldom produce a weaker entity which doesnt survive. They are generally fitter, stronger and more improved for their survival and growth.”

      Actually, they produce entities that do not survive enormously more often than stronger fitter ones, it is just that you never see most of them precisely because they didn’t survive. A mutation is far more likely to break something that already works in a complex system than to make something better, precisely because mutations are largely random. The survivors are the lucky ones that didn’t inherit anything too damaging.

    259. Saffron Robe says:

      Ben Madigan & Mia

      I really enjoyed reading your detailed comments and I think you are both right. It is valid to say that Scotland has not objected to previous violations of the Treaty of Union no matter how serious, but Brexit represents a fundamental and unequivocal breaking of the treaty. Although the Treaty of Union was designed to safeguard England at Scotland’s expense, it simply does not allow for one nation to be able to crash the economy of the other head first into the ground. The only mystery is why Nicola Sturgeon is doing nothing. It may be that she is just an empty vessel, a complete and utter failure as others have mentioned, and as such is viewed as a great success from Westminster’s point-of-view.

      The difference between Scotland, and Ireland (and Wales), is that we were never conquered. James Connolly and all the other brave leaders of the Easter Uprising had no option but to take up arms to liberate Ireland. As I’ve mentioned before, our ancestors died in battle to establish our sovereignty so that we would not have to. Further to that, however limited the franchise, the Treaty of Union was passed by democratic majority in Scotland. It can therefore be undone by democratic majority. If we cannot achieve independence democratically then there is no such things as democracy – it is all an illusion and we are in fact living under totalitarian control.

      Daisy also is correct, we are cursed by our oil and other natural resources. To the global neo-liberal economy, Scotland is a veritable goldmine and until the global chain of neo-liberalism is broken then Scotland will continue to be exploited at the expense of her indigenous population. (https://sourcenews.scot/solomon-steinbett-ecology-and-economics-a-blueprint-for-survival/)

      Daisy is also right about coronavirus. What began as a response to a novel virus has mutated into the perfect means of totalitarian government control. The question is not to deny the existence of Covid-19 which has resulted in many tragic deaths, but to question whether current restrictions are commensurate with the threat and whether the restrictions being imposed are effective at all. Even the foundations of medicine have been debased by the lockdown approach – “first, do no harm” and secondly, “futile intervention is worse than no intervention at all”. Lockdown transgresses both of these principles. And has anyone considered that it may be the vaccines and trials themselves which have induced mutations in the virus?

      It seems to me that poverty = poor quality of life = weakened or compromised immune system = susceptibility to disease and illness.

      A weakened or dysfunctional immune system overreacts to the virus and starts to attack itself. A strong immune system is dependent on quality of life and that is why the virus is more prevalent amongst the poor (Inverclyde for instance) and ethnic minorities. Very few of the recommendations to combat the virus are based on boosting the immune system because that would involve radical action such as the systemic reduction of vehicular traffic to improve air quality, and directly addressing the inequalities in society. Instead such things as the wearing of face masks are promoted which do nothing to boost the immune system and may actually weaken it by reducing the flow of oxygen to the body.

      So yes we are fighting not just to liberate Scotland, but to break the global chain of neo-liberalism and the totalitarian authority imposed under the guise of coronavirus. Not an easy task.

    260. Ronald Fraser says:

      Bob Mack (self appointed site Polis)

      It is a well known fact, known throughout the civilised World, that the english are Inferior to every other race/nationality.

      Therefore, being a Scot, I am automatically superior to any english man OR woman.

      Hope that sorted out that wee conundrum for you.

    261. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some possibly see me as an irrational and aggressive hothead, but that is to misunderstand my online identity is a bit of myself, and a lot of professional training. Which I’m beginning to re-connect with. So here’s a look at “Drivers and barriers for psychosocial risk management: an analysis of the findings of the European Survey of Enterprises on New and Emerging Risks (ESENER).

      https://osha.europa.eu/en/tools-and-publications/publications/reports/drivers-barriers-psychosocial-risk-management-esener

      “Psychosocial hazards are defined by the International Labour Organisation (1986) in terms of the interactions among job content, work organisation and management, and other environmental and organisational conditions, on the one hand, and the employees’ competencies and needs on the other that prove to have a hazardous influence over employees’ health through their perceptions and experience (ILO, 1986).

      A simpler definition of psychosocial hazards might be those aspects of the design and management of work, and its social and organisational contexts that have the potential for causing psychological or physical harm (Cox and Griffiths, 2005). There is reasonable consensus in the literature on the nature of psychosocial hazards, as presented in Table 1.”

    262. Ronald Fraser says:

      TD

      What in particular did I blame the english for???

      Please explain…

    263. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronald Fraser,

      I am in no doubt at all aboutvyour superiority complex.

    264. Ronald Fraser says:

      Bob Mack (self appointed site Polis)

      Always here to help.

      Just as long as we know our station in life.

      I always go through life knowing that I will never be bottom of the heap.

      That place will always be taken by an englishman

    265. Ronald Fraser says:

      Bob Mack (self appointed site Polis)

      Are you that areshole geeo???

      He was another pest, very similar to yourself.

    266. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronald ( private) Fraser,

      I appreciate you know your place. I think most of us share an opinion of you as well.

    267. TD says:

      Ronald Fraser
      “What in particular did I blame the english for???
      Please explain…”

      “This new variant that the Englanders have dumped on the World is
      70% more contagious than ordinary Covid19.”

      “If you want to fill your body with that English Oxford rat’s pish vaccine then go ahead. I for one will never let a drop of that english rat’s pish near my body.”

      “It is a well known fact, known throughout the civilised World, that the english are Inferior to every other race/nationality.”

      “Now we are finding Scotland is being banned from travel to certain countries around the world because of our attachment to the detested English.”

      Need I go on?

    268. Bob Mack says:

      @TD,

      Be kind. He goes thrkugh life knowing he will never be bottom of the heap. Another climb up the rung of ambition thwarted!!

    269. shug says:

      This new virus and the closure of borders to the UK is a convenient cover for the disaster Brexit will bring in the new year.

      Fortunate coincidence.

      Anyone seeing good mems about the border up the Irish sea and regulatory alignment for all these orange unionists for which the great union is so precious.

    270. Xaracen says:

      “The survivors are the lucky ones that didn’t inherit anything too damaging.”

      Even luckier are the ones that inherit a mutation that actually improves their ability to compete successfully in their environment, as it seems Covid-19 just did, with a mutated spike protein that gets them inside human cells more easily.

    271. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s a book review that points to where I’m coming from. Or at least trying to anyway. If only our political and legal classes shared a similar perspective.

      https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/normativity-and-the-will-selected-essays-on-moral-psychology-and-practical-reason/

    272. Graf Midgehunter says:

      So so so…

      The English, not content with having the common European Covid virus like everyone else, think that they need their very own “sovereign” version.

      Just a few days before the transition period ends, the final blending of Brexit with Covid mutates before our very eyes.

      Man the border posts Scotland… NOW

    273. Daisy Walker says:

      T.C. Nu says:
      20 December, 2020 at 2:05 pm
      Daisy@12:29

      ‘..For example bubonic plague was spread by direct contact..’

      Technically, spread by being bitten by infected fleas..’

      Struggling to see any way that fleas can bite you without direct contact. If fact I would say a flea bite would be a very epitome of direct contact.

    274. Bob Mack says:

      @Daisy Walker,

      Lice were also a factor_____and rather common.

    275. Ronald Fraser says:

      TD 3.02

      Everything I wrote about the english was FACT.

      What is your problem with that???

      Would you rather I blamed the Irish or some other innocent nation???

    276. Ronald Fraser says:

      Bob Mack (self appointed site Polis)

      Quite a cheeky little bastard, are you not Bob???

      You are drifting close to being eliminated Bob,

      Little dicks like you usually end up on the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website.

      Cheeky wee k*nts like yourself are usually Nikla fanatics.

    277. Republicofscotland says:

      Tory John Lamont from the Scottish branch office is demanding to know why Police Scotland are to double up patrols on the border with England.

      I myself would’ve thought the answer to that would pretty obvious, to stop unnecessary cross border travel, and if Lamont would’ve taken a minute to think it through rather than railing over this logical move he’d realise the doubling up of officers is to keep Scots in, as well as keeping out folk travelling without a good reason into Scotland.

      But of course Lamont is a typical Tory, screaming down anything that’s beneficial to Scotland that’s not first had consent from his boss Johnson or Westminster in general.

      We could well do without people like him in Scotland come independence.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18958134.coronavirus-scotland-tory-mp-demands-know-police-doubling-border-patrols/

    278. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronald,

      LOL!!! 6ft 3 in. 18 stone mate. Cheeky big bastard.

    279. ben madigan says:

      @Saffron Robe Thanks for your comment.

      I fully agree Brexit represents a fundamental and unequivocal breaking of the 1707 Treaty of Union (Scotland-England) a) because Brexit was against the democratic will of the Scottish people.
      With regards to b) as you said, the Treaty does not allow for one nation to be able to crash the economy of the other head first into the ground.It might, however, be argued that since Brexit is crashing the economies of both England and Scotland, the Treaty is still ensuring equal treatment.
      In any case the 1707 Treaty was not broken because NI got a better deal in the brexit negotiations.

      2) You wrote “The Treaty of Union can be undone by democratic majority in Scotland”. Since this is true, considering UN law,(All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development), it’s another reason, besides the IMB, why I fear there will be no May 2021 election in Scotland, given current polls on support for Independence

      3)I certainly agree that poverty = poor quality of life = weakened or compromised immune system = susceptibility to disease and illness. Throughout the Covid pandemic, the world over, people who have to keep on working away from home in essential jobs e.g. shop assistants,NHS staff, bus drivers etc are more exposed to catching the virus and then bringing it home. Given their salary scales, they probably live with more people in smaller houses, which facilitates contagious spread.
      Lockdowns do work as we have seen in China, Australia and New Zealand but they do come at high personal, social and economic costs which are paid to a greater extent by low wage workers

      4)you said “we are fighting not just to liberate Scotland, but to break the global chain of neo-liberalism”. The Covid pandemic has revealed all the deficiencies of neo-liberalism worldwide. The coming battle in most countries is to defeat its pernicious policies and the EU Recovery Fund looks like a good step in the right direction.Needless to say Brexit seems to me like a very bad step in the wrong direction.

      PS Support for neo-liberalism may be yet another factor in the Scottish Government’s inaction over Brexit.

    280. Ronald Fraser says:

      The Rev eliminates persistent pains in the arse.

      Are you paying attention Bob Mack???

    281. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronald Fraser,

      Are you reading Bob? This is not in sound . The Rev will do what he likes.

    282. Ronald Fraser says:

      Bob Mack (self appointed site Polis)

      6’5″ 19 stone.

      So in my eyes, you are a cheeky WEE bastard

    283. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronald,

      That yer wife?. Dinner time.

    284. Ronald Fraser says:

      England is all alone in the world.

      Because Scotland has also imposed a travel ban on our contaminated neighbour to the south of our border.

      Mingers.

      Nobody wants anything to do with them.

    285. CameronB Brodie says:

      The world is definitely off-kilter if I’m the sensible one. 🙂

      A PRECAUTIONARY-PRINCIPLED APPROACH
      TOWARDS UNCERTAIN RISKS: REVIEW AND
      DECISION-THEORETIC ELABORATION
      http://www.erasmuslawreview.nl/tijdschrift/ELR/2009/2/ELR_2210-2671_2009_002_002_003.pdf

      “Precautionary judgment, decision, and action are needed in situations involving serious uncertain risk. Examples are mountain climbing, nanotechnology, global warming, and international terrorism. The history of the Precautionary Principle (PP) shows that its proponents and opponents have different appraisals of probabilistic risk analysis. However, modern ‘risk governance’ and precautionary safety management seem to be converging into a balance of useful substance and feasible procedure.

      In this paper, the PP is unfolded as a three-way principle for risk assessment, decision-making, and risk control. For an integrative circumscription of the PP, ten key issues are identified. These are discussed one by one, whereby ‘rational’ precautionary decision-making is particularly illustrated via the concrete example of a railway bomb alarm. It is argued that a substantive-analytical framework is indispensable, that a decision-theoretic perspective may offer useful guidance, that the PP is a rational (survival) rather than a normative (ideological) principle, that the need to avoid false negatives versus false positives may well differ among distinct policy domains, and that precautionary ‘pessimism’ should stimulate towards improved, multi-sided control of uncertain risks. Concluding questions are answered and research suggestions are formulated.”

    286. cirsium says:

      @Daisy Walker, 12.29
      The possibility exists (and putting to one side – motive) that inflammatory language is being used to increase the ‘state of fear’ status in order to achieve the same level of population compliance that was achieved 9 months ago, because the public have adjusted.

      Increasing the state of fear by covert means is a key strategy of the Behavioural Insights Team, key advisers to SAGE. A letter from psychologist Dr Gary Sidley, https://www.coronababble.com/post/the-ethics-of-using-covert-strategies-a-letter-to-the-british-psychological-society

    287. TD says:

      Ronald Fraser

      “Everything I wrote about the english was FACT”

      The usual tactic of bigots is to make wild assertions and then claim them to be facts. Or to put it another way, just because you type FACT in capital letters does not convince me that your assertion is true.

      “Would you rather I blamed the Irish or some other innocent nation???”

      It’s interesting that you feel the need to blame some nation or another. This is what the psychologists call an “external locus of control”. It’s a common symptom of a number of mental disorders.

      Could I plant the idea with you that just possibly, the Scots are responsible for our current predicament? It is the Scots who turned down the opportunity to become independent in 2014 and if we do not manage to become independent in the next couple of years or so, that will be because of what we do or what we don’t do. England and the English will not really have very much to do with it.

    288. Tannadice Boy says:

      We will get back to politics later. What a great Cup Final. Something to cheer every football fan up. First goal beautiful, cheeky penalty and a great Jam Tart fight back. Commerisation to the eventual losers.

    289. MaggieC says:

      An excellent interview on Twa Auld Heids with Alex Neil discussing the Scottish Parliament Harassment and Complaints Committee and the plan for Scotland’s future after covid by Alex Neil and Alex Salmond .

      It’s well worth listening to it .

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=47IJIeY_LMQ&feature=youtu.be

    290. Dorothy Devine says:

      I am getting a tad weary of those who consider offering insult is somehow worthy of plaudits.

      Come the fight for independence we will need all our scribes and sitting on one site bad mouthing another is the work of the spiteful and inherently stupid.

      You need make no comment, as my granny used to say – ‘if you can’t find anything nice to say about a person just say nothing at all “- which is much the same as Paul Kavanagh says to those who pen useless insults and used to be what our own wee Rev would say too.

      Merry Christmas Wingers – have as good a one as you can possibly have under the circumstances and I look forward to seeing some weel kent faces as early as is safe in 2021.

      Play nicely!

    291. CameronB Brodie says:

      Yes, the cognitive sciences informs government, and it’s a good thing too. Psychologists don’t run government though. That’s historically the job of well-connected spivs and the media pals.

      From Risk Assessment to Knowledge Mapping: Science, Precaution, and Participation in Disease Ecology
      https://www.ecologyandsociety.org/vol14/iss2/art14/

      “Governance of infectious disease risks requires understanding of often indeterminate interactions between diverse, complex, open, and dynamic human and natural systems. In the face of these challenges, worldwide policy making affords disproportionate status to “ science-based” risk-assessment methods. These reduce multiple, complex dimensions to simple quantitative parameters of “outcomes” and “probabilities,” and then re-aggregate across diverse metrics, contexts, and perspectives to yield a single ostensibly definitive picture of risk.

      In contrast, more precautionary or participatory approaches are routinely portrayed as less rigorous, complete, or robust. Yet, although conventional reductive-aggregative techniques provide powerful responses to a narrow state of risk, they are not applicable to less tractable conditions of uncertainty, ambiguity, and ignorance. Strong sensitivities to divergent framings can render results highly variable.

      Reductive aggregation can marginalize important perspectives and compound exposure to surprise. The value of more broad-based precautionary and participatory approaches may be appreciated. These offer ways to be more rigorous and complete in the mapping of different framings. They may also be more robust than reductive-aggregative appraisal methods, in “opening up” greater accountability for intrinsically normative judgements in decision making on threats like pandemic avian influenza.”

    292. Ottomanboi says:

      It’s a machine generated algorithm that has effectively closed down the planet.
      https://insidebigdata.com/2017/11/14/book-review-weapons-math-destruction-cathy-oneil/
      Ignorance of their role in the modern world is no excuse, particularly as, unchecked, they have the potential to screw up your life.
      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/16/how-can-we-stop-algorithms-telling-lies

    293. cynicalHighlander says:

      @kapelmeister says:
      20 December, 2020 at 2:16 pm

      We should be discussing the bacterial pneumonia pandemic caused by excessive mask wearing which doctors are being told not to speak up about.

      Is that what killed Bonnie and Clyde?

    294. Bob Mack says:

      @Cynical Highlander,

      No. That was lead poisoning.

    295. Beaker says:

      The roots of the Vietnam war lie solely with France, as it tried to regain it’s colonial empire after WW2. They fucked up and handed the reins to the USA, who then made a bigger fuck up.

      Read Max Hastings book on Vietnam. A long read but probably the most accurate historical record.

    296. crazycat says:

      O/T

      @ Ian Brotherhood (maybe)

      Was it you who was asking a few weeks ago about Roddy Macdonald, who tweets as @Logicsrock and had a website which has not been updated for ages?

      I’ve just spotted this: https://twitter.com/Logicsrock/status/1340398943373582339
      which shows he’s still around.

      You may already have seen it, of course.

    297. Tannadice Boy says:

      Well a great match. Penalties the ultimate hardship. Well done to both teams.

    298. Hatuey says:

      Poor Hearts. Actually, if we are honest, nobody really cares about Hearts, do they? If I was in charge of Hearts, the first thing I’d do is dump that horrible burgundy colour. Sides that wear burgundy never win.

    299. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @crazycat (5.04) –

      Yes, it was me.

      Thanks!

      😉

    300. Ronald Fraser says:

      TD 4.09

      So off the top of your head, you can’t think of anything that england is to blame for???

      Really???

      And you post comments on and read comments on a site called , Wings Over Scotland.

      Are you clinically dead???

      Or are you suffering from the advanced stages of dementia???

    301. CameronB Brodie says:

      Though HMG’s response has been slow, inadequate, and disjointed, that does not mean SAGE are necessarily incompetent or bent. There’s a lot of politics between the science and policy, and more than a few crooks. So here’s a look at the “Annual Report of the Government Chief Scientific Adviser 2014”. Of course, this is all immaterial, as Brexit indicates that Westminster does not consider Scots to have a legal right to legal rights. Apparently the current SNP agrees, or else they might have made more noise in defending our EU legal identity. Though I’m not sure if the party actually understands the legal ramifications of a defensible identity (see GRA amendments).

      INNOVATION: MANAGING RISK, NOT AVOIDING IT
      Evidence and Case Studies
      https://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/reports/14-1190b-innovation-managing-risk-evidence.pdf

    302. Alf Baird says:

      TD @ 4.09

      “Could I plant the idea with you that just possibly, the Scots are responsible for our current predicament?”

      The census and post indy survey work tells us that perhaps as much as half the No voters in 2014, i.e. close to around one million voters, did not identify as Scottish. The other half of the No vote will have been Scots, though many of them may well be suffering the psychological effects of cultural imperialism which includes Appropriated Racial Oppression.

      Given these two factors, the Scots are arguably not responsible for either the way they themselves voted nor for the way those holding to other national identities voted in opposing and blocking the right of Scots to their own Scottish nationality, Scottish citizenship and Scottish self-government.

      It may therefore be argued that a majority of Scots voted Yes in 2014 and that the irregular residence-based franchise invited a significant degree of the what the UN calls ‘external interference’ in the referendum result.

    303. Tannadice Boy says:

      Right back to politics. The past master of FOIs our Rev Stuart Campbell should ask this question. In our City Hospitals what has been the biggest impact on our A and E services over the last few days? Respiratory diseases? NO. Cancer or heart attacks? NO. The answer straight from the horses mouth. Overdoses and young people trying to kill themselves. Another health tradegy you won’t here about.

    304. James Che. says:

      Quite a few good comments here actually discussing independence, sovereignty of the Scottish people, how to find a way forward for Scotland, treaty of the union, and who has the ultimate control.
      As for the rest of you spewing hatred towards each other and causing a divide between ordinary people, you are giving the independence movement a bad reputation,
      Grow up, leave the playground and go home to your mammies.
      We will wait for you to rejoin us when you are able to converse in a grown up manner, you need as the old saying goes, your heads knocking together,

    305. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Saw part two of this linked on a tweet last night but can’t find it again…

      This is part one. We’ve had it btl before but always worth a watch.

      ‘Secrets and Lies, Part One – OIL’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-nK_lhtfc

    306. Mia says:

      “In any case the 1707 Treaty was not broken because NI got a better deal in the brexit negotiations”

      I disagree. NI is at all practical effects part of the kingdom of England (Ireland was annexed by the kingdom of England under the Ireland Act 1542), the same as Wales is.

      Article IV
      ‘That all the Subjects of the united Kingdom of Great-Britain shall, from and after
      the Union, have full Freedom and Intercourse of Trade and Navigation, to and from
      any Port or Place within the said united Kingdom, and the Dominions and Plantations…”

      In my opinion that border across the sea breaches this article of the treaty of union between Scotland and England.

      Article VI.
      ‘That all Parts of the united Kingdom, for ever, from and after the Union, shall have the
      same Allowances, Encouragements, and Draw-backs, and be under the same Prohibitions,
      Restrictions, and Regulations of Trade, and liable to the same Customs and Duties,
      and Import and Export”

      NI remaining at all practical effects in the EU and benefiting from all its advantages breaches article VI.

      So from where I am standing, it seems the special arrangement for NI may breach not one, but two of the fundamental restrictions of the treaty of union.

      If Nicola Sturgeon does not take upon herself to either end the union because of this breach that prejudices Scotland, or demands the special arrangement for NI to be ditched, it will be yet another reason to think she is actively prejudicing Scotland’s interests and deliberately wasting every opportunity that crosses her path to reassert Scotland’s sovereignty and rights.

    307. robertknight says:

      James Che…

      Nothing wrong with challenging those individuals who would give truth to the lie that all Scot Nats are anti-English, racist bigots.

      I don’t need my head knocking against that of a wee Scotlander with an inferiority complex, chips on both shoulders and a whole lot of other issues going on, all no doubt the fault of the English, thanks all the same.

      Scum says as scum does, and Ronny and those like him are about as much use to the Indy movement as mirrored sunglasses are to a professional poker player… a major handicap to success in other words!

    308. Iain More says:

      ” Alf Baird says:
      20 December, 2020 at 5:20 pm

      TD @ 4.09

      “Could I plant the idea with you that just possibly, the Scots are responsible for our current predicament?”

      The census and post indy survey work tells us that perhaps as much as half the No voters in 2014, i.e. close to around one million voters, did not identify as Scottish. The other half of the No vote will have been Scots, though many of them may well be suffering the psychological effects of cultural imperialism which includes Appropriated Racial Oppression.

      Given these two factors, the Scots are arguably not responsible for either the way they themselves voted nor for the way those holding to other national identities voted in opposing and blocking the right of Scots to their own Scottish nationality, Scottish citizenship and Scottish self-government.

      It may therefore be argued that a majority of Scots voted Yes in 2014 and that the irregular residence-based franchise invited a significant degree of the what the UN calls ‘external interference’ in the referendum result.”

      Dont forget those near 800,000 postal votes either.

    309. Republicofscotland says:

      “The roots of the Vietnam war lie solely with France, as it tried to regain it’s colonial empire after WW2. They fucked up and handed the reins to the USA, who then made a bigger fuck up.”

      Beaker.

      We need our very own Ho Chi Minh, if I recall correctly his name means something like the Bringer of Light. Minh studied in France and loved Charles Aznavour films. He even studied pastry making under the renowned Auguste Escoffier at the Ritz in London.

    310. Ronald Fraser says:

      robertknight 5.53

      You sure it’s just your domineering wife that’s English robbo???

      You are verging on hitting levels of defending the english not seen since Senseless Dave last commented.

      Or are you Senseless Dave???

    311. Davie Oga says:

      Irregular Scottish electoral franchise, used by 0 normal countries, is just another example of British exceptionalism.

      Just more posing from the non nationalist nationalists. “Look at us, aren’t we so welcoming and inclusive”

      Reality- Scottish people are not significantly more or less welcoming than the majority of places. The majority of countries just aren’t naive and foolish enough to let non nationals vote in their national elections and constitutional referendums. When I say majority, I really mean all.

      Countries that allow non nationals and to vote in national elections and constitutional referendums:

      Scotland

      Countries that do not allow non nationals and to vote in national elections and constitutional referendums:

      Every other country

      The SNP’s come vote against our independence “strategy” so we can feel smug and morally superior have degraded Scottish nationality. Considering they have effectively abandoned Scottish sovereignty to an English veto, Im going to award 0 points, for that “Stronger for Scotland” con.

    312. TD says:

      Ronald Fraser

      “So off the top of your head, you can’t think of anything that england is to blame for???”

      Not sure why you ask this. England and the UK (of which like it or not we are part) have been to blame for lots of things and can also take credit for lots of things. That really is not the point. You could probably say the same of any state you choose. But demonisation of English people is not something that I will subscribe to. It is just as repugnant to me as demonisation of black people, or gay people or women or men. The simple truth is that some English people are good people doing their best in life and some are not. Just like Scots.

      “And you post comments on and read comments on a site called , Wings Over Scotland.”

      I don’t think that to read Wings and post comments you have to be xenophobic. Nor do you have to be xenophobic to support Scottish independence. What you do not seem to realise is that independence is not about the English and it is a big mistake to make it about them. If you do that, you legitimise their meddling in Scottish affairs. It really has nothing to do with the English and people who espouse views such as yours do the independence cause a lot of harm. Ordinary Scottish people who are increasingly coming over to the independence cause are put off by anti-English bigotry because most of them have English relatives or friends and bear no ill will towards the English. You and your views are a threat to Scottish independence and I will call out your bigotry at every opportunity.

    313. Ronald Fraser says:

      Sturgeon has an english Granny.

      Says it all really.

      “Don’t worry Granny, I’ll not let those bad Indy people “separate” us.

    314. Ronald Fraser says:

      Loads of Daily Mail sorts on today.

      So what do we owe the privilege???

    315. robertknight says:

      Ronald…

      We see you.

      An agent provocateur, trying to paint the movement as being a home for the racist, the bigot, the xenophobic idiot, the Siol nan Gaidheal types who run about dressed like extras in a low-budget Hollywood movie.

      How are Special Branch with their expenses claims these days Ronnie? On time, or do they make you wait?

      Go play in the traffic sunshine, you’ve been rumbled.

    316. Rick H Johnston says:

      Hard to feel sorry for Hearts BTW.
      They used up all their luck in the semi-final.
      Have to say well done to Neil Lennon.
      Him and his boys have just made history.

    317. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s Part Three of the Secrets & Lies documentary. (‘NUKES’)

      Still can’t find Part Two! (Does anyone happen to have an archived link?)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtVxN-yas

    318. Dunadd says:

      BBC couldn’t see any bias in the Andrew Marr show.
      What a surprise!
      They couldn’t see Jimmy Savile and his mates either.

    319. Davie Oga says:

      Republicofscotland says:

      “We need our very own Ho Chi Minh, if I recall correctly his name means something like the Bringer of Light. Minh studied in France and loved Charles Aznavour films. He even studied pastry making under the renowned Auguste Escoffier at the Ritz in London.”

      A nice thought, but in 21st century Scotland they would be denounced and no platformed before he was 20.

      No cross dressers in his government-Transphobe!

      Wouldn’t let the Chinese decide the fate of the Vietnamese nation-Racist!

      In a Scottish context, Ho was just a little too Vietnamese for the job of liberating Vietnam.

    320. katherine hamilton says:

      To the Yoony trolls on here. Merry Xmas. Holyrood 2021- SNP1, ISP2. Huge majority. Gargle all the crap you like. Nobody’s listening. Ignore them.

    321. ben madigan says:

      @Mia I am afraid we will have to agree to differ.

      As I have tried to point out to you the 1707 Treaty of Union (Scotland-England) is different to the 1801 Act of Union (Ireland-England).

      The better outcome for NI in the Brexit negotiations derives from changes to the latter, particularly the 1998 GFA which strengthened NI’s semi-detachment from the rest of the UK and the role of the ROI in the province.

      Nowhere else in the UK does the ROI have a role or a voice in what happens. Nor should it – but it does in NI

      Soon after Brexit I warned Scotland was in a perilous position as it did not have this type of protection and this was when we were all still expecting the FM to do her best for the country.

    322. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Davie Oga
      An observant post. Ho lost 2 million for his pyrrhic victory. I bit like me voting SNP 1 and 2 for Independence.

    323. Col says:

      @ Katherine Hamilton
      Seems reasonable tbh.

    324. Ian Brotherhood says:

      There seems to be some crossover between the various indy-related documentary vids on Youtube, with different titles covering very similar footage.

      Still, loving watching these. Reminds me of a time when the debates around indy were about ‘real’ stuff, not tantrums about biology, rammies over personalities, or who peeked their heid around a door on such and such a date.

      The grist of the real debates is all there on the record. We just need to remind ourselves of it and re-stoke our – entirely justifiable – wrath.

      ‘Scotland’s Conspiracy Files’ (Part 5 of 6)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d7tW_5SGXY

    325. Saffron Robe says:

      Dear Ben,

      Many thanks for your insightful reply. You may be right when you say, “It might, however, be argued that since Brexit is crashing the economies of both England and Scotland, the Treaty is still ensuring equal treatment.” Quite a sobering thought really!

      More importantly I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that “support for neo-liberalism may be yet another factor in the Scottish Government’s inaction over Brexit”. Ever since the Growth Commission Report sold out the working-class support base for independence, and thereby the grassroots independence movement, it has been apparent that Nicola Sturgeon is a neo-liberal at heart. (That is if she has a heart at all.) Independence under Sturgeon would simply be neo-liberal rule from Edinburgh and not London and our resources and people will continue to be exploited to the hilt.

      I think, however, I agree with Mia regarding NI’s role in Brexit. It is the granting to NI of different customs and trade arrangements which, under the Treaty of Union, need to be uniform throughout the United Kingdom. NI is being granted special dispensation due to the GFA, but Scotland is being denied the same dispensation because we chose democracy over violence. It is not the case that there is any ill-feeling because NI got a better deal. The problem is that Scotland was not allowed any tailored deal at all and indeed no say in the matter whatsoever even although we are supposedly an “equal partner”.

      But it all comes down to neo-liberalism and global capitalism. Under current neo-liberal conditions, England needs Scotland’s resources for her economic survival. What I don’t understand is that as Scots we are a fair and generous people. If England was desperate for food or water then we would do what we can to help out our nearest neighbours. We would not do unto England as England has done unto us.

    326. Strathy says:

      At 6.52pm.

      Thank you Mr Murrell. And to you and the Mrs.

      By the way, many are listening. Lots of them on ScotGov computers like you.

    327. John Main says:

      Beaker

      I am going to fess up to having done a few of the things on your list. I haven’t had COVID-19. Nobody I know has had COVID-19. Maybe the reality is that judicious social distancing, good personal hygiene and avoidance of cramped spaces re-breathing other’s unfiltered exhalations is enough to keep COVID-19 under control.

      Another reality is that the sacrificing of the young in order to protect the privileges and comfort of the old was supposed to have been discredited after 1914-18 and 1939-45. Given that COVID-19 presents little more than a nuisance for most healthy young people, should we really be destroying their lives and livelihoods? Would it not be easier, healthier and more cost-effective to come up with good systems and processes to protect the vulnerable (overwhelmingly the ill and the elderly) and let the healthy young get on with their lives?

      This “independence” the contributors here are so desperate for. Who is it intended to benefit if not our children, grandchildren and their descendants?

      Regarding the abolition of Hogmanay. I think it was the ancient Greeks who said that whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

    328. wee monkey says:

      So what will happen to the “Salmond Enquiry” now that the new Drugs Policy Minister – Angela Constance [third time lucky] is also on the Salmond investigation committee.

      Presumably she will need to resign from that or we would have a govt minister investigating the govt.

      Or will the “Salmond Enquiry” be “temporarily suspended” due to the conflict of interests and will await restart sometime in the future…..

    329. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Scottish Independence – Secrets and Lies (Part 1) – OIL

      Part 1 deals with the deception practiced by successive Westminster governments in their attempts to minimise the economic impact and future potential of North Sea Oil. These lies were meant to keep the Scottish drive toward self-determination under control. Mention is made of the suppression of the incendiary Mccrone Report, and the urgent need for Scotland to take control of it’s own revenues and taxation in the modern day.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-nK_lhtfc

      Scottish Independence – Secrets and Lies – Part 2 – SPOOKS

      Part 2 concentrates on the efforts of the Uk internal security services, MI5 and Special Branch, to disrupt and suppress the SNP and the movement toward Scottish independence generally, and also mentions possible CIA interest in North Sea Oil. Nuclear waste dumping in Scotland is also explored. Did the UK government, Nirex, or the nuclear company Westinghouse have any involvement in the murder of anti-nuclear activst Hilda Murrell or the suspicious suicide of SNP Vice-Chairman Willie McRae.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpJYgZIExE

      Scottish Independence – Secrets and Lies (Part 3) – NUKES

      Do the UK’s nuclear weapons, stored at Coulport and deployed via submarine from Faslane, really improve the safety of the British isles, or of Scotland? What effect would Scottish independence have on our current WMD capability? The declassified launch failures of Polaris, Trident I, and Trident II missiles are shown, radiation risks at Faslane and Dalgety Bay are outlined (two examples of the high-handed negligence the UK Ministry of Defence routinely shows toward the people it is supposed to protect), corruption of the lobbying system involving BAE Systems and retired generals is shown, and also the many mishaps involving the next-generation HMS Astute.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtVxN-yas

      A short look at attempts by civil servants in Westminster/Whitehall to deprive Scotland of it’s geographical share of North Sea oil rights, by first secretly moving the undersea marine border northwards (a plan attempted since the seventies, but not realised until the passing of the Adjacent Waters Boundary Order 1999) and encouraging uncertainty over the constitutional status of Orkney and Shetland. The recent convert to separatism Tavish Scott makes an appearance.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCPb0oesAhg

    330. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Hoots aplenty!!!

      😉

    331. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      Forgot to preface the last paragraph with,

      “Scottish Independence – Secrets and Lies (part 4) – BORDERS”

      SHAZBOT!

    332. Tannadice Boy says:

      @John Main 7 11
      I have had Covid a shitty disease to be avoided if at all possible. On your note on young people I posted earlier about what’s happening in our A and E departments as we speak. My interest in A and E has dealt with a lot of deaths and their families. First time I have seen my interest struggling. Without giving too much away. 80+ plus deaths are easy to deal with. 19 years old overdoses wanting to die are not. No response from anybody. I hope Stu picks this scandal up and goes for an FOI. Don’t clap them, help them, they are struggling right now. It is very difficult too deal with young deaths.
      You won’t here this on the MSM. Or from the SNP anytime soon.

    333. Mia says:

      @Ben
      “I am afraid we will have to agree to differ”
      then agreed it is

      “the 1707 Treaty of Union (Scotland-England) is different to the 1801 Act of Union (Ireland-England)”

      Certainly. the 1707 one is an international treaty between 2 sovereign, independent states. The 1801 is just an Act passed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom after Ireland had already been annexed by the Kingdom of England and brought under its own crown over 200 years before (Ireland Act 1532). In other words, it was an domestic agreement between the kingdom of England and one of its dominions in order to placate the latter, but in practice did not change much.

      “The better outcome for NI in the Brexit negotiations derives from changes to the latter”

      It may well do so, but the special agreement for NI still breaches the Treaty of Union 1707 because it prejudices Scotland against one of the dominions of the kIngdom of England because Scotland is not afford the same privileges.

      Whatever agreements the Kingdom of England has with its own dominions is its own business, but when as a result of those businesses, Scotland will be affected and prejudiced in terms of trade/access to trade, then it is the Treaty of Union 1707 that is breached and blatantly.

      In this instance it is even more notorious because of the fact that it is only because Scotland remains part of that treaty that cannot enjoy those privileges. If it was an independent state there would be nothing stopping her enjoying the exact same access to trade as NI with its special agreement.

      The Act of Union 1801 is a domestic act that does not nullify the international Treaty of union 1707 between Scotland and the Kingdom of England. The special treatment for NI breaches the international treaty of union between Scotland and the Kingdom of England and is unacceptable that it is not acted upon. Article IV and Article VI were not just there for decoration. They were conditions that has to be satisfied for the treaty to remain valid.

      “Nowhere else in the UK does the ROI have a role or a voice in what happens”

      the ROI is no longer a dominion of the kingdom of England and does not have a right to demand a breach on the treaty of union between the Kingdoms of Scotland and England for the sake of a special treatment of NI. But neither does England unless it declares the treaty null.

      We have to agree to disagree because I stand by my previous comment. For as long as NI chooses to remain part of the UK, a favourable agreement for NI and its access to the EU trade when Scotland is denied the exact same privileges as it is its right under the Treaty of Union is a direct breach of that treaty of union. Independently of the domestic Act of union 1801, NI is an annexed territory of the Kingdom of England and was already so when the Treaty of Union 1707 was signed and ratified by Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

      It is therefore my personal view that if Nicola Sturgeon fails also to capitalise on this and turns yet another blind eye to a breach of the treaty of union as she has been doing with every other opportunity that fell on her lap, she will be sending the loud and clear message that she has absolutely no intention whatsoever to protect Scotland’s interests and rights under the Treaty of Union 1707. In other words, she is not working for Scotland but against Scotland and actively jeopardising its interests.

    334. Hatuey says:

      Wee Monkey, what difference would it make if she resigned? All of the SNP members of the Salmond Inquiry committee have performed as their party and leader would wish them to.

      I’d also say Fabiani’s interventions appeared to be tainted by apparent bias too, which doesn’t bode well for the outcome.

      I hope Wightman stays with it though.

    335. Ian Brotherhood says:

      “Listen to the argument, then you can patronise it afterwards.”

      Vintage Alex Salmond (at 2m37s), interview with Paxman:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ud3jDjIrfU

    336. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Thanks @Ian B and @BDTT, for those links.

      I’ve saved them.

    337. ben madigan says:

      Dear Saffron
      What an interesting reply and discussion!To pick up on some of your points

      “NI is being granted special dispensation due to the GFA, but Scotland is being denied the same dispensation because we chose democracy over violence”.
      No, Scotland is being denied the same dispensation because it is not NI and does not have the same International Treaty set-up to protect it

      “we chose democracy over violence”
      And it is by far the better choice, considering what people went through during the 30 years Troubles.
      However chosing democracy means using all the tools of democracy These are not limited to asking Westminster’s permission to hold IndyRef2.
      Unless something is done – probably through the International Courts as Breeks has long been advocating as the Covid pandemic precludes mass demonstrations etc – slight/no deal brexit will go ahead as Westminster plans, with all the bad repercussions for Scotland.I think it is fair to say no country or international body or association will help Scotland until and unless Scotland moves to help herself. “Silence is consent” as they say

      “The problem is that Scotland was not allowed any tailored deal at all and indeed no say in the matter whatsoever even although we are supposedly an “equal partner”.
      I agree.
      Westminster moved to silence Scotland’s voice. After writing a report about Scotland’s proposals for Brexit, which Westminster (PM May?) admitted they never even read, the Scottish Government took no effective steps or actions to uphold Scotland’s vote to Remain. In my view the Scottish Government made sure Scotland’s was never raised and if it was, was never heard above a soft whisper.

      “But it all comes down to neo-liberalism and global capitalism. Under current neo-liberal conditions, England needs Scotland’s resources for her economic survival”.
      True.Even under non neo-liberal conditions, indeed under any conditions whatsoever, England needs Scotland’s resources for her economic survival. Which is why if Scotland wants Independence and in my view she actually needs it to survive, she should be using all available democratic tools.

      “What I don’t understand is that as Scots we are a fair and generous people. If England was desperate for food or water then we would do what we can to help out our nearest neighbours. We would not do unto England as England has done unto us”.
      This is the same type of argument that I hear from nationalists and Republicans in NI when they say Unionists/Loyalists need have no fear of living in a re-united Ireland.
      And it is true, in my opinion.Neither Scots independistas nor Irish republicans and nationalists would do unto the English and NI Unionists/Loyalists as has been done unto them. Nevertheless that makes no difference to the hardline Unionist mindset.I think we have to get past emotion-based appeals and focus on how Brexit will destroy their livelihoods and has already removed their children’s and grandchildren’s rights to freely live, love, study and work in 27 neighbouring countries which comprise one of the most advanced civilisations on this planet.

    338. Ronald Fraser says:

      robertknight

      I was waiting on the old favourite “77th” being posted. That is what usually happens when you are losing the debate.

      What a fuckin tool you are.

      Any thoughts I have about our stinkin southern neighbour comes straight from the heart.

      And isn’t it riveting viewing watching the english empire go down the pan.

      And the French have just banned lorries entering France from Dover.

      Other EU countries are likely to follow suit.

      As they say on Wings,,, it’s time to get the popcorn out.

      The icing on the cake is watching the City of London slide into the Thames.

      Robbo, urr ye greetin intae yer pint of best english bitter.

      Oh how we laughed.

      Johnson is our best chance of Scotland becoming an independent nation.

      Sturgeon is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      The sooner she fucks off to the UN, the better.

    339. ScotsRenewables says:

      Ronald Fraser, most of us have no dispute with the English, only with their government. You do realise you are coming across as a bit of a roaster, don’t you?

    340. Meg merrilees says:

      Mia @5.49

      I think you have just quoted the exact reason why Ruth Davidson stated that she would resign should a border be created in the Irish Sea. By creating any sort of difference to the terms of trading in/out of Belfast or any other N. Irish port and the rest of the UK the Union between Scotland and England is breeched. If England breeches it then we can walk away!

      This was T May’s dilemna which Boris’ then inherited and his proposal to circumvent it was to ignore the Good Friday Agreement. But that caused more of a rumpus because it is a relatively recent International agreement and people stand up for it.
      Unfortunately the 1707 Union has been easily overlooked, but I think things are changing and we may be about to hear a lot more about said Union.

    341. Derek says:

      “Tannadice Boy says:
      19 December, 2020 at 10:13 pm
      @Scotrenewables 10 04
      I have already had the virus. I came to terms with my mortality a long time ago.”

      I don’t know if I’ve had the virus or not, but I ride a motorbike every day which certainly gives you a clue as to your mortality. As such, I don’t think that I’m scared of the virus, but I’m cautious in behaviour sometimes.

    342. Saffron Robe says:

      Agreed Ben. I concur entirely with your analysis and assessment. The only thing I would question is that “Scotland is being denied the same dispensation because it is not NI and does not have the same International Treaty set-up to protect it.” We do have an international treaty set-up to protect us and that is the Treaty of Union. But as you say we have to employ every democratic and legal means to exercise our rights under the treaty, and in the case of Brexit, exit that treaty, and so far we have not done so. However, we have given the SNP multiple mandates to act on our behalf and have clearly expressed our democratic will for independence. We have not failed ourselves, it is the SNP leadership who have failed us.

    343. Tannadice Boy says:

      @ScotRewenables 8 48
      Too easy to pick on the class clown. My argument is with the Scottish Government. The largest proportion of A and E admissions is young people trying to end their life. How can I prove that without compromising my sources?. Over to you for some real insight. BTW I know the numbers. You accused me of being a Unionist so it’s SNP 1 and 2. Yes sir I can boogie…

    344. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Derek 9 18
      If you ride a motorbike you are a better man than me.i am not going to tell you the stats because you already know them. Ride free you are freer than us mere politicos.

    345. Derek says:

      “Ronald Fraser says:
      20 December, 2020 at 10:25 am
      The dirty stinkin English gave us Brexit,,,and now have given the world a new variant of Covid19.

      The world should just turn it’s back on Engerland and turn the whole fuckin place into a Leper Colony.

      If you spot an Englander on Scottish soil, then don’t approach.

      Stay well away and call the infectious control police and get the bastard dumped back across the border.

      Keep Scotland safe,,, keep the Englanders out.”

      I’m not having that. I have English friends that live here – and have done for many years – and bollocks like that puts them at risk.

    346. robertknight says:

      Ronald Fraser

      “I was waiting on the old favourite “77th” being posted”

      I made no mention of the 77th Bde. They have a recruitment process which would weed you out at an early stage on the grounds of intelligence, or lack thereof. Doesn’t prevent you from being someone else’s ‘useful idiot’ however…

    347. Polly says:

      @ Republicofscotland

      ‘Minh studied in France and loved Charles Aznavour films. He even studied pastry making under the renowned Auguste Escoffier at the Ritz in London.’

      That’s fascinating. I know little of that country and nothing much of its history so thank you for that snippet of him as a pastry maker. I’ll have to find out more now.

    348. Dan says:

      @ Derek

      Ronald Fraser seems to be a bit of a one trick pony with the blaming the English theme.
      He really needs to be a bit more nuanced though, as his blanket use of England / English blaming is far from helpful when many English folk have made their homes here in Scotland for years or even decades, vote for Indy, and are often far more politically aware of the political differences and positives of living in Scotland having lived in England previously.

      My mother is English and has attended several of the Indy marches.
      I was speaking to an Englishman this morning whilst on yet another roadside litter pick. He and his multi-generational extended family also live up here in several households and they are all very receptive to Scottish Indy, even more so after losing their EU Citizenship and the restriction that means for their kids’ future access to the rest of the continent we live in.
      I’ve to send links to various further reading and info on several subjects we discussed in our half hour discussion.

    349. McDuff says:

      Dan
      Unfortunately Dan the English vote for indy is negligible and that not insignificant majority will always vote for the union which is of course means England.

    350. Derek says:

      “Mia says:
      20 December, 2020 at 5:49 pm
      “In any case the 1707 Treaty was not broken because NI got a better deal in the brexit negotiations”

      I disagree. NI is at all practical effects part of the kingdom of England (Ireland was annexed by the kingdom of England under the Ireland Act 1542), the same as Wales is.”

      One of the restrictions thenabouts was that goods arriving in Britain could only be landed by English-registered ships, hence “piracy”; much of it, I suspect, was equivalent to moonshine running. Slightly at a tangent, but it’s another example of control of supply (at the time). England was mostly at war with France, so most of the wine came in through Leith.

      I don’t know how many of these ancient acts have been repealed; a bit like Berwick still being at war with Russia, some of them may still be on the books.

    351. Meg merrilees says:

      Until very recently the United Kingdom was officially described as a Union of two Kingdoms – the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England which included the Principality of Wales and the Province of Northern Ireland.
      I think it was revised during Theresa May’s time to be described now as a Union of four nations – Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland.

      Nevertheless each and every port is supposed to be subject to the same rules, regulations, customs duties and tariffs (if any) – and clearly come 2021 this will not be the case with Belfast and the other UK ports. Union breeched – quite clearly breeched!

    352. Dan says:

      McDuff says: at 10:18 pm

      Unfortunately Dan the English vote for indy is negligible and that not insignificant majority will always vote for the union which is of course means England.

      That may be the case, but folk should at least make the distinction in their comments and not be so ignorant or lazy as to repeatedly tar all the English with the same brush.
      How can I recommend English folk that are receptive to Indy to read this informative site when they will read numerous comments that could be so easily misinterpreted and make them think the site is anti-English.
      If folk lack the intellect or gumption to make the positive case for Indy on the purely political aspects and failings of the union, and simply resort to base blaming and dislike for all things English they might want to think about raising their game a wee bit.
      Many decent English folk have made their homes and families here in Scotland. Aye, they may be a minority, but it just gives ammo to our unionists opponents if they can continually point to anti-English stuff being posted here.

      But hey, I’m just a idiot that didn’t even pass my O Grade English exam but at least try to make a coherent attempt at positive campaigning for the cause.

    353. ben madigan says:

      here’s how one Scottish fishing company is being affected by European countries refusing to allow British people including lorry drivers to enter their countries due to the new Covid-19 variant.
      Flights, ferries and the Eurostar train from UK are suspended for France, Ireland, Germany, Austria. NL, Belgium, Italy

      “There will be Vivier trucks from all over Scotland heading in that direction, millions of pounds worth of seafood at the time of the most important market of the year the last one before Xmas, Jesus if BREXIT wasn’t going to put us out of business by Tuesday this week we will be”

      https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1340756996136587266?

    354. twathater says:

      I align myself with the views of Alf Baird in the blanket inclusion of all peoples from all parts coming to Scotland having a say and vote on whether Scotland should reaffirm its independence status as a nation state

      But whenever the views relating to this issue surfaces and it has happened many times , the inevitable cries of outrage and racism are thrown about

      I am a firm believer in no taxation without representation but this is not what this issue is about , this is an issue to determine the future direction of Scotland and it is inevitable that people who have recently arrived have not suffered the indignities and denigration that indigenous Scots have suffered throughout their lifetime , also the recent arrivals who are mostly coming here are coming for economic reasons , cheaper housing , better SNHS care , free prescriptions and travel , it is therefore not surprising that they still want all of the benefits but their hearts are still clinging to the better together mantra of the united kingdom as long as they can have the best of both worlds

      I have had discussions on here with English people who are genuine independence supporters who feel that it is a slight against them if they are not allowed a vote in a indy ref , I responded that I thanked them for their support but surely if they REALLY desired independence and a majority of their fellow incomers were voting against independence it would make sense to agree with a decision to limit non indigenous Scots involvement with a vote

      Unfortunately they couldn’t agree with the sentiments , as usual the decision to involve non indigenous Scots in Scotland’s future independence ref was made and decided by NS without ANY consultation with Scots voters , she wouldn’t even set a minimum term of residency requirement

    355. Dan says:

      @ twathater

      There would be for and against arguments with any particular chosen franchise of who can vote in particular democratic processes.
      Alf and others have highlighted the irregularity of the wide inclusive franchise used for the 2014 Indyref when compared to the more restricted eligibility factors other countries utilise in their elections.

      The trouble with amending the franchise now is that a precedent was set in the 2014 vote.
      Plus there’s also the aspect that an 2nd Indyref isn’t happening anytime soon and should next year’s Holyrood election be used as an alternative plebiscitary event re. Indy, then it would also require altering the franchise from the current wide inclusive franchise normally used for the Scottish Parliament elections.

      Fairly sure we ain’t going to start with ethnic cleansing so best just deal with the situation we find ourselves in. Everything has changed with the material change in circumstances leaving the EU has brought us, so plenty aspects to discuss with the electorate, and if the polls are anyway near correct we already have a Pro-Indy majority, we just need the “event” to express it…

    356. twathater says:

      @ Dan I know where your coming from Dan it’s just so frustrating knowing that the indigenous Scots had voted YES in 2014 but were hampered by non indigenous incomers , and as Alf has illustrated the increase of incomers will present a future problem



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