The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Ticking off the boxes

Posted on October 21, 2017 by
Subscribe
Notify of
guest

394 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Capella

Brilliant. Well said, Hamish. My Cairnstoon book and Hamish pin came this week so you can add gloom to the free-from list.

Clootie

…without Westminsterthe list is unlimited!

Dorothy Devine

Love it and hope and pray that the last two boxes are ticked very, very soon!

Reluctant Nationalist

‘Smack free zone’

About time. Never understood how folk could stick that stuff in their veins.

Well done Scotland.

Dorothy Devine

P.S Could we also make it a BBBBC free zone?

Marie Clark

Great toon again Chris, very apt. The sooner the last two become a reality, the better. I just love oor wee hamish.

I agree Dorothy, BBBC free zone would be great.

heedtracker

Funny but unionists are going to scrap all of it. Union jack free, soon.

gus1940

Add ‘Tractor Free Zone’ to the list.

jimnarlene

Brilliant.

Fiona brown

Fantastic I’d love to see it in a Come to Scotland invite formatThanks Wings

Street Andrew

Reluctant Nationalist says:
21 October, 2017 at 7:35 am
ā€˜Smack free zoneā€™

About time. Never understood how folk could stick that stuff in their veins.

Well done Scotland. Whooooaaa!

I think there’s more work to do on that sort of smack. But the sooner we get away from the total prohibition mentality the better.

The only winners from prohibition are the criminals and their money launderers in the ‘city’.

Ken500

Westminster and the nukes will be going with Brexit.

England/Wales want to stand alone in splendid isolation, They will get their way. They have no one to blame but themselves. The Tory lowlife crap.

The Tories reprobates and the stinking Press are throwing good folk out of Scotland. Dirty bastards. How dare they do that to people. Stinking lying scum. With no empathy. What are the judiciary going to do about? To protect people’s human rights from this insane, warped Tory Gov. The Scottish Gov must put up a fund to protect these people and pay their expenses.

Wasting public money like there is no tomorrow. Trying to depopulate Scotland. Imposing illegal taxes on Scotland. 40% tax on Oil & Gas sector losing thousands of jobs and Ā£Billions of revenue. Trying to illegally bring the Scottish economy down. Now doing it with the Whisky industry. Illegally high taxes not imposed anywhere else in the UK or the EU.

Westminster unionists and their cronies tax evading. HMRC not fit for purpose except to protect the tax evaders and their mates at Westminster. That is why they want out of the EU, To keep on tax evading. The EU is cracking down in tax evading by multinational corporations paying no tax. The Tories and their mates arevdefrauding the public purse at every opportunity. Ā£Trns of debt making everything cost more. QE taking people’s income downl Contrsctong the economy.

Fallon is a dirty warmonger. An alcoholic. Just need to look at him. Alcoholics make poor decisions. Without proper total abstinence counselling. Cameron was on the booze and the take. That’s why he had to resign to cover up.mThe state of it. He caused Brexit. Now rewarded with a job in the City for helping out the moguls

Westminster should be drink and drugs tested before they are allowed to make any decisions. Fallon wants to start a war with. Russia. The unionists causing chaos and death in the Middle East and the rest of the world. Killing and maiming miliions of innocent people. Selling weapons to the Saudi to kill innocent people. Barbaric. The most absolute despot monarchy in the world.

UK/US causing the worse migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Destroying the world economy. They want to walk away. Leaving the EU and others to clear up their mess. Not even taking in 30,000 displaced children who could easily be accommodated. It is just disgusting. No compassion. Yet they go to Church every Sunday. Claim they are Chrustians and renege in their vows. .

Brexit. The Tories will ‘negotiate’ less rights for more money. There is nothing surer. They are total ignorant incompetents. Starving people to death. Attacking the most vulnerable in the most brutal way. In a land of plenty. They just can’t get enough public money, to embezzle to line their own pockets, Lying about everything. Lie, after lie after lie. Disgusting parasites in every way.

The unionists politicians are complete, ignorant bastards. They haven’t got a clue, They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Wasting public money on grotesque projects of no value. That no one wants. Then cutting essential services that people need. Spending Ā£Billions on HS2, Hinkkey Point, Trident and Heathrow. All a total waste if money. With far better. cheaper more cost affective alternatives, Cutting Education/NHS, social care, welfare benefits and all essential services. A total false economy. Starving people to death and killing and maiming millions. Ruining the world economy. Brexit. The Tory/unionist fail. Failure after failure. Ā£Trns of debt. Making everything cost more. Total Wasters. .

Ghillie

Hope Hamish gets to tick those last two boxes real soon =)

And as you say Clootie, once we add Westminsterfree that list is unlimited!

This would make another good postcard Chris šŸ™‚

Might you think about drawing us a Christmas or Seasonings Greetings card?

[…] Wings Over Scotland Ticking off the boxes Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland […]

Ken500

Labour MP Clive Lewis. Pissed?

‘Get on your knees bitch’ To an fringe audience member. Labour fringe conference event.

That’s what you are dealing with. He has been sited as a future Labour ‘leader’. Volunteers to fight in illegal wars. Vulnerable foreigners. Then gets depression. Obviously.

Fergus Green

BBC free zone – yet to be ticked.

heedtracker

Despite all Scots living under medieval rule of BBC Scotland’s SNP bad, so stop voting SNP now, it ain’t working.

Hope beeb Scotland gimp network keeps up to date with current polls:D

link to electoralcalculus.co.uk

SNP 36.9% 35, forecast 40.0% 45

Come on planet toryboy, lets have another snap GE.

Famous15

BBC free? Did I hear correctly Tompkins Tory being called out on “slamming” the SNP for a policy he supported in February.You could hear the other Yoons wooshing in to talk over who ever told the truth. (About 10 to nine)

Fergus Green

Apologies to Dorothy Devine – you got in there first.

Ian McCubbin

Says it all with dry humour and so try. Thank you.

Grouse Beater

Very nice, Chris.

That cartoon will make a good poster. I hope, sometimes against hope, we keep Scotland a democracy, for England’s influence is corrosive, meaning, we continue to share wealth in a strong welfare system where everybody benefits.

Your must not miss weekend reading:

No country is an island: link to wp.me
Too serious to be funny:link to wp.me

Ian McCubbin

Oops try should read true, total typo.

galamcennalath

“Westminster Free” is the BIG box that needs ticking asap. Then the list will then be long. Much to get done in iScotland.

“Smack free zone”, you just know that the same people who want to be able to beat children will be those who oppose baby boxes and named person. We all know that most fascist thugs aren’t actually toothless knuckle draggers, they also come well heeled.

Croompenstein

Can’t come soon enough Chris..

I don’t buy that it was a snap election heed it was deep state collusion and manipulation of a UK general election never seen before. Pre planned but not quite as successful as they had decided.

Wishart and Gethins just survived but they made the Tory boy loser a lord and wee Rennie was apoplectic that the plan failed to get Gethins he threatened court action, dunno what happened with that he was probably told to shut the fuck up.

We are in the fight of our lives against these bastards..

wull2

The SNP may have lost seats.
But there are people in all partyā€™s that support Independence. Independence is on the increase and is the most important fact.
They might not shout about it, because the crowd they are in, but who cares, as long as they vote YES.

heedtracker

Croompenstein says:
21 October, 2017 at 9:25 am
Canā€™t come soon enough Chris..

I donā€™t buy that it was a snap election heed it was deep state collusion and manipulation of a UK general election never seen before. Pre planned but not quite as successful as they had decided.

Its fun to speculate all that but if it was a UK wide cunning tory stunt, it’s blown up in their smarmy tory faces completely.

They’ve given Corbyn’s Labour a very clear shot at government, when it looked all for them for a decade at least. Scottish polls today show us, despite relentless spectacular BBC Scotland SNP bad attack propaganda war on Scots, Colonel Ruth is probably not going to be the next Scottish First Minister.

Work to do, everyone in Pacific Quay. Is future FM Anas your saviour?

galamcennalath

If only we had ticked the Westminster box in Sept 2014. We’d be out of it by now.

We would be doing our own thing and busy nation building. It wouldn’t be easy but at least any shit would have been our own shit!

We might have found ourselves like Ireland in the EU28, as it would have become, in Engexit negotiations. Putting pressure on on the rest of the EU to ensure the rUK comes up with an open border!

There would have been a political rearrangement in rUK. They might even have been spared Eng/Brexit, who knows!?

Talking of Brexit negotiations, clarity I believe. I paraphrase the EU …. “Agree to give us our ā‚¬60billion by Christmas, or f.ck off!”

Jockanese Wind Talker

O/T some quality BritNat Trolling on BBC Westminster ā€œUse of devolved powers in Scotlandā€

Tory and Labour MPs lying their arses off big time.

Les Wilson

Excellent Chris, as usual.
I agree with others there would be many more ticked boxes if we could get shot of the bottom two, and definitely should have been an unticked box for the BBC.

Hamish100

Shereen …

BBC the usual labour yoon Harris ex labour MP and the usual suspects

Awaiting Harris to explain why a labourite should ignore Scotlands wishes to remain in the EU.

Robert Peffers

@Les Wilson says: 21 October, 2017 at 10:03 am:

Good one Chris.

Mind you it is not only Hamish that is ticking – so is the time bomb that is BR UKEXIT.

ronnie anderson

O/T . A oldy but goody .

link to youtube.com

Dr Jim

UK free zone

What a day that’ll be, they’ll hear us cheering and greetin at the same time all around the world as we *TAKE BACK CONTROL*

Now you’d think the UK would like that phrase, but apparently only when it applies to English control

Proud Cybernat

Tory []

Nice one, Chris.

Macart

Those last two?

The YES movement is on it.

Alex Clark

Tory government free zone.
Austerity free zone.
Lying media free zone.

Please help make it true. Make Scotland Independent.

Nana

Great drawing Chris. That’s some list and I’m praying the last two are ticked off soon.

I admit to getting downhearted. One minute I’m up and the next I’m down, like Sandy’s puppet. Yesterday’s report of the American couple being told to leave Scotland had me in such a rage it’s a miracle there is any crockery left in my kitchen.

Equality Westminster style where the bigger partner tells us who can and can not stay here is an insult to us all.

Peter McCulloch

OT I read in today’s courier that Harriet Harman has urged SNP MPs not to let “nationalism trump femininism” and vote in favour of changes to the rape laws in England.

What an absolute brass neck she has, this Labour hypocrite who as interim leader said in July 2015 that Labour would not vote against the Tory welfare bill and should not oppose limiting child tax credits to two children.

John Walsh

The only way we can be WM free is to persuade another 20% of Scottish voters to vote for Indy.
After 3 years of SNPbad and relentless MSM lies and deceptions we remain at 46% ish . So to move the formal NO voters will be tough. Maybe brexit will shift a few but we require a big shift.
They still believe the propaganda both Labour and the Tories spew even in the face of facts presented about the damage brexit will do. Farmers, Fishermen and businessmen/ women normally rational people deny it .
As Voltaire said “It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.”

Bob Mack

You might need a longer board Chris.

Grouse Beater

John Walsh: “The only way we can be WM free is to persuade another 20% of Scottish voters to vote for Indy.”

20% is ideal, but we need only a swing for 5 or 6% from the 2014 referendum, assuming 52% is considered the end of the matter by those who voted NO.

By whatever margin we win it will take a generation – 10 years – for people to accept Scotland is once again a nation state, withdrawal from it unthinkable.

A Scot in Englandshire: link to wp.me

Conan the Librarian

OT, but a commenter on Munguin’s has proven something we had all thought about Douglas Ross…

link to munguin.wordpress.com

heedtracker

Graun’s funny as ever today on its Scotland region, like nothing ever happens here, fair enough they’ve blacked out Clyde Shipbuilding getting UKOK reamed this but not even the rolling SLabour leader comedy show makes it to Graun news.

Instead, Scotland’s shite and Scots speak funny says the Graun,

“Anglophobia certainly exists in Scotland, and the ā€œslightly posh-sounding Englishā€ that Dunlop says she speaks probably does make her inimical to the more bigoted nationalist. But in England too that voice has lost friends. Who wants these days to sound posher than the family they were born into?

Well, one man at least. How did Jacob Rees-Mogg come to sound as he does? ā€œTop schoolā€ and ā€œfamily backgroundā€ wonā€™t do as explanations. Etonians donā€™t as a rule drawl like that, at least not in the past half-century, and there are no dukes and earls in his lineage. His mother, Gillian, went to Camden School for Girls, a good grammar in north London, and then to secretarial college; his father, William, was born into the Somerset gentry and attended Charterhouse and Balliol College, Oxford. They met at the Sunday Times in the early 1960s, when William was the city editor and Gillian his secretary. A colleague at the paper, Hunter Davies, remembers William as good journalist (he later edited the Times): no drawler, but rather aloof and too work-absorbed to notice that his secretary was secretly in love with him ā€“ until, that is, Davies pointed it out.”

Ah the great brit journo, beloved and respected wherever they wander.

tartanfever

Am I the only person in Scotland that witnessed the unbelievable report from the BBCā€™s David Henderson on the lunchtime edition of Reporting Scotland yesterday (20th October) on the frigate story ?

In all my years this ranks as one of the Top Ten BBC ā€˜avoidanceā€™ broadcasts, that is, avoiding the very simple headline that the number of frigates being built has been reduced.

Itā€™s available on the Iplayer today until 13.45 then itā€™s gone forever, I canā€™t believe everyone has missed this and no-oneā€™s talking about it.

link to bbc.co.uk

Gerry Gribbons

glad when those last two boxes are ticked…love the comments about BBC above too

Jack Collatin

We’re gonna need a bigger white board, Chris.
On the BBC…just caught a snippet of BBC Shortbread in the car. Tom Harris, whom we kicked out along with the rest of the ‘Fucking Useless’ 41 (their own Shadow Cabinet’s description) seems to be a regular on BBC and Alison Rowatt the Brit Nat from the Herald were rabbiting British Nationalist New Labour garbage on a show hosted by somebody called Shereen…on Brexit..all agreed a Deal will be done that we can all be happy about..no mention of the 62% no mention of Scotland at all..what a wee Nazi styled Propaganda Unit for the British Nationalists the BBC has become.
I am enraged that this man Harris is getting an income from my TV licence money, to preach British Nationalism of the New Labour New conservative Tony Boom Boom variety.
Add ‘No BBC’ to the list, Chris.

Artyhetty

That’s just a great image Chris. Can bedroom tax be added to that and a few other things that the ScotGov are having to mitigate for.

The things that people complain about, SNHS, even though it’s very healthy due to SNP investing in it. I talked to a very nice young guy other day who has just moved up from London, says he probably won’t go any ‘further north’ though. He reckoned the transport is crap for a start. Brand new to Scotland, but he loves it so far. Told him to get on a train, and go and explore. Can anyone imagine gojng to live in any country and saying, ‘I won’t be going any further north no though’.

It’s the way Scotland has been portrayed for centuries, scary, cold and wet with no transport. I suppose the britnats made sure transport was kept to a minimum.

Lots of work to do I reckon, many young people from over the border will be coming to Scotland.

Need a card to hand out with info on websites for news and info to counter the massive anti SNP, anti independence media that most will only see, or hear, if new to Scotland and they already have some fixed ideas about things from the media, where they come from.

Might make a card, for an artist group I joined and many from England. Great bunch of people.

liz

Brilliant summary Chris, Thanks

K.A.Mylchreest

Spot on again IMHO! _Beagan ri beagan dh’ith an cat an sgadan_ šŸ˜‰

Chick McGregor

Brilliant Chris.

I would add ‘Cringe Free’ except I can’t decide if it needs to go before or after Westminster.

chocolass

Brilliant as ever,Chris!Must get a copy for the staff room !

Jock McDonnell

From one of nanaā€™s Pages, a bit old but still relevant link to consoc.org.uk

Dan Huil

Frack

Smack

Hack? [all britnat newspapers]

Tackety Beets

Famous15 @ 9.04 am

It was Andrew Tickell ( Peatwarrior ) who got spoken over / shut down by G Brewer this morning

What did we used to say A. Tickell > Good Guy , AT W@nk . GB W@nk

Artyhetty

Another one could be ‘no sanctions’. No 6 week wait for some measly funding to cater for just th every basic needs that any human should have according to the Human Rights Act. We still have that in place, as far as I know, but the tories seem to think they have already scrapped it.

If only we had control over ‘welfare’. ScotGov can only mitigate so much, and with no powers over Universal Credit, ESA, Job seekers allowance, or Income support, or Housing Benefit, people are really suffering.

Signed a petition yesterday begging the UKGov tories not to introduce ‘welfare vouchers’. Yes, that has risen it’s ugly head again, stop the poorest having actual money. I didn’t know you could pay for the internet with vouchers, oh wait, slaves are not allowed such luxuries. The internet is a lifeline for many, and of course essential for even looking for jobs etc.

The Tory future UKok looks bleak indeed.

heedtracker

We could just have a big sign on the A1, Welcome to Scotland, we’re not England.

link to metro.co.uk

David

You might want to add ‘personal responsibility’, ‘economic sense’ and ‘free speech’ to that list.

call me dave

@Tackety Beets

Mr Tickell shot down Prof Tomkin just fine this morning using the same ammunition as seen on WOS much to the chagrin of Brewer who didn’t quite shut him down quick enough. šŸ™‚

PS:
Shereen Nanjiani and guests rake over the old news on Radio shortbread ever Saturday! SNP bad too…Phtooey! šŸ™

Blair Paterson

Ot I see the media are trying to decide if T? May is doing well in the brexit talks but she is a remainer how on earth can she represent the people who voted to leave I mean the tories won the g.e. They did not ask the parties who lost on to their cabinet to help to run things to me the whole thing is a farce the losers are representing the winners the losers sole purpose is to make it as complicated as possible and delay it as long as they can so that the bosses can keep paying low wages for as long as possible and to stave of a Scottish ref .2

heedtracker

Mr Tickell shot down Prof Tomkin just fine this morning

Hey watch it! That’s my Slovene girlfriend you’re talking about, whom I love very much, not just because he’s a really good kisser.

Adam Tomkins MSP?Verified account @ProfTomkins Oct 18

Why is the SNP wasting taxpayer’s money on a scheme that is prohibitively expensive and unlikely to work?

She’s says this about anything Scotland though.

Aldo_macb

Next tick is Royal family

Dan Huil

@Aldo_macb 12:58pm

“Next tick is Royal family”

Agreed. Next tick after that is Lymes. [Keep the midges, though, just for old times’ sake]

Daisy Walker

O/T @ Croopenstien at 925 am

‘I donā€™t buy that it was a snap election heed it was deep state collusion and manipulation of a UK general election never seen before. Pre planned but not quite as successful as they had decided.’

The last GE caught me out. I thought the Establishment/tories were completely incompetent with their ā€˜no to indy ref2ā€™ slogan and nothing else. How wrong I was. It was a clear cut, well thought out, executed, deliberate plan.

I suspect they are doing it again.

As soon as the terms of Brexit are known and NS fires the starting pistol for Indy Ref2. England will insist on a new Brexit Ref ā€“ UK wide of course. And this time they will win.
This gives the tories a legitimate out on their home made disaster.

It will split the Indy ref vote ā€“ what kind of EU membership do you want with your indy ref/devo max, vow under new management?

And as soon as England votes to stay within EU, all the conditions for holding Indy Ref 2 are null and void.

We need to keep doing what we are doing, its all good stuff, but we need to be the safe place for the voters. When all the bad news of Brexit is doing folks heads in, and they increase their project fear 2+++, we need to be the no brainer, safe harbour, common sense, no effort required, let just vote for them and get it over with party.

Putting this out there folks, for your thoughts.

liz

@daisy Walker – that’s a very good point.

Tommy Kane

I would add “Tax avoidance free”

One_Scot

Very good.

One_Scot

At this precise point in time, I am genuinely not sure why your average reasonable minded every day Scot would vote against Scotland becoming Independent.

starlaw

@ daisy walker

don’t think UK will get to go back in time with Brexit EU will insist on a new start with new terms creating even further upheaval, add to that the die hard UKIPER’s , another fine mess.

jfngw

A reliable source has revealed that the BBC Scotland news department refer to their viewers as ‘the mushrooms’.

manandboy

Daisy Walker

ā€˜I donā€™t buy that it was a snap election heed it was deep state collusion and manipulation of a UK general election never seen before. Pre planned but not quite as successful as they had decided.ā€™

“The last GE caught me out. I thought the Establishment/tories were completely incompetent with their ā€˜no to indy ref2ā€™ slogan and nothing else. How wrong I was. It was a clear cut, well thought out, executed, deliberate plan.

I suspect they are doing it again.”

Too right, Daisy. No one in Europe knows what the Tories are up to – except the Tories, or rather the brains they hire for political strategy. I believe the UK Government is stalling for time while keeping the uncertainty pot simmering. From a Scottish perspective, this prevents the Scottish Government from forming an Independence Referendum plan based on Brexit facts.
With no hard Brexit-bad evidence to go on, the Scottish Electorate will be left completely undecided right up to the date for IndyRef, September 2018, too late for campaigning.

The Tories know Brexit is going to be a disaster, the details of which if known in advance, spells a near certain Yes vote for Independence, so by repeatedly delaying, May is attempting to run down the clock on IndyRef, forcing the Scottish Government to wait and wait and wait for bad Brexit news to convince soft No voters to change their minds, but which never comes – till it’s too late. In the absence of clear evidence that Brexit will be a disaster for Scotland, the soft No’s will vote with the status quo.

Or is there a simple explanation why the whole of Europe can’t figure out why the Tories are conducting Brexit in such a shambolic manner.

At the last GE, the Scottish Government were found asleep at the wheel and lost 21 MPs. By forcing the 27 to wait, wait, wait, the Tories look like they are trying the same trick, and inducing the Scottish Government to have another snooze.

Wake up Scotland, or you are about to lose your Independence.
Again.

twathater

ANOTHER Chris cracker , Hamish maybe a couple more boxes to be added e.g. tRuthie, twa joabs , queens eleven murdo, Brutish Bullshitting Corporation ,and assorted msm hacks , Davie tank top boy , and assorted PSB’s

Proud Cybernat

Sing up…

link to imgur.com

Proud Cybernat

Towards the light…

link to imgur.com

schrodingers cat

Daisy Walker

westminster calling euref2 is not beyond possibility

we need to keep our cards close to our chest, watch what happens, then jump to indyref2 within a very short time frame.
euref2 could trump indyref2 if remain won.

this is what we lost in sept14, we gave away the ability to decide our own destiny.

Dorothy Devine

Proud Cybernat ,don’t think I have ever thanked you for those delightful cheer ups you continue to brig so Ta muchly!

Dorothy Devine

Bring – obviously – I don’t have a head cold!

TheBuchanLoony

RT has Catalonia Independence march in Barcelona live at the moment.

Flower of Scotland

Daisy Walker@1.16pm

I have been worrying about this for a while. I think the Tories have a long term plan to sink another Scottish Independence Referendum. I thought I was maybe going down the conspiracy theory road but I don’t think that Tories are as stupid as they make out they are.

We definitely have to be ready to do another IndyRef quickly, and be one step in front of the English Governments ambitions.

Breeks

Manandboy says:
21 October, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Daisy Walker

ā€˜I donā€™t buy that it was a snap election heed it was deep state collusion and manipulation of a UK general election never seen before. Pre planned but not quite as successful as they had decided.ā€™

Always cautious about conspiracy theories, but this below makes pretty chilling reading…

link to truepublica.org.uk

Brexit engineered solely for profit seems a bit of a stretch if Iā€™m honest, but Brexit for profit and the EU damaged in the process, and suddenly it doesnā€™t sound so fantastic a theory, bearing in mind the US concerns about an ever more powerful EU.

What makes it more credible is that Brexit winning the vote was not the predicted outcome, because a UK voting remain would have kept the UKā€™s thumb in the EU pie, but with a much more politisced far right, with Farage and UKIP resonating with La Penn in France, Gertrude Wilders in the Netherlands, and the ADP in Germany. That dynamic could have spelled potential disaster for the EU.

But they screwed up the Brexit Referendum by actually winning it, and were then caught isolated with their pants down when Wilders, La Penn, and the ADP were each thumped at the polls, and central EU solidarity actually grew in its reaction to the UKā€™s rather lonely exit.

Deeezaster. So, if such a conspiracy theory holds water, the ā€œplayersā€ still need a UK collapse to profit from, but a Brexit which actually happens must now be made salvageable. Itā€™s one thing to profit from a passing commercial downturn or collapse, but the profiteering element of the deal also requires a recovery, so the businesses you buy for a bargain price recovers to their true market value. No recovery, no payout.

A basket case UK however needs the loss of Scotland like a black hole in the UK Balance of Trade. There is a very credible possibility that the Brexit collapse will be so cataclysmic that recovery may be decades away, and post Brexit investment will be stuck with no economic recovery in sight, but an angry and mutinous population.

So, suddenly there is a lot of dark money being spent in Scotland trying to contrive defeats and humiliation for the wrong footed and somewhat complacent SNP.

But this dark money bid also failed. It punished the SNP yes, dented the momentum and confidence, but critically, it did not remove them from power. The cries of ā€œNo to a Second Referendumā€ only gives you a mandate if you win, but Ruthy blew it.

The worrying thing for Scotland, is that the UKā€™s fate outside Europe now seems pretty well sealed. The Dark Money is on its contingency Plan B agenda, and that means surviving Brexit, limiting the damage to the UK, and that very much means keeping Scotland on board.

We wonā€™t be fighting Westminster next IndyRef, weā€™ll be up against something much more sinister.

David McDowell

Spain abolishing the devolved parliament of Catalonia at the stroke of a pen.
May and Corbyn watching closely to judge whether they’ll be able to get away with it too.

boris

Good cartoon: Astute lampooning of the benefits of the Union

link to caltonjock.com

Proud Cybernat

Thanks Dorothy.

It’s a fun way to pass the time between now and Indy. We have to make the BBC in Scotland’s name mud; stigmatise that crooked outfit. Every little helps. šŸ™‚

wull2

That is what I like to see, expose their next move, show them we know what they might be up to.
Vote YES, and be ready.

ronnie anderson

@ Jack Collatin 11.58 . “I am enraged that this man Harris is getting an income from my TV licence money, to preach British Nationalism ” .

Apparently not enraged enough . What are you afraid of Tangereen Jackie announcing your non payment on 6.30 NOT SCOTTISH NEWS .

DONT PAY THE BBC PROPOGANDA LICENCE FEE .

Paula Rose

Here’s a link to a new Scottish broadcaster…
link to trulyscottishtv.wordpress.com

Foonurt

Ah fine cairtoon. Carter Bar, wuv wan fur ye.

Alang wae thoan Seevintae-fower, Ae Wan & Ae Seevin. Whit aboot, yoan wee rid-enn tae Gretna?

Daisy Walker

In reply to Breeks at 4.18.

I don’t do conspiracy theories either. But I do look at motives and follow the money.

In particular I no longer see Labour and the Conservatives as opposites, with separate agendas.

They are both there to deliver the same outcome, but with a different tune, tempo, flavour, depending on the mood of the public.

Big Tereeza and co, are not the ones in charge. I rather think they are the walking dead – all being left in situ at present as a great big smoke screen, while the power behind, quietly gets on with sorting out the direction the UK is going to go.

And they cannot lose Scotland – financially we are the UK’s powerhouse, outside the banks in London (and that’s funny money). We generate real stuff exports (booze) we generate a place at the big table (Oil and Gas) and with a renewable potential 4 times the size of our oil and gas industry – anyone who controls Scotland can extract full profit from the oil and fall back on the renewables at a later date (money in the bank).

Buggering up Indy Ref 2 is the number 1 priority of the establishment, in a way that Brexit (hard, soft or any other type) is not – they will make a profit from it one way or another, but they have to keep Scotland.

I’m putting this out there, so folk can think about it and be prepared. Indy ref 2 will also be Brexit 2, one way or another, and we need our messages to be tight. We still have a lot of people to come home.

If anyone feels downhearted by what I’m suggesting, please don’t, we’ve done such a lot of good work. This is just more of the same, but a bit more fine tuned.

Les Wilson

We need to support this, and make it work
link to trulyscottishtv.wordpress.com

Proud Cybernat

Daisy – here what you’re saying. But if Mayhem does not deliver the ‘will of the [English] people’ there will be hell to pay down south. And the Tories (blue & red flavours) will find UKIP breathing down their necks again.

Mayhem may well find some way to bring EUREF2 but I think it can only realistically be, at best, a vote on accepting/rejecting the BREXIT deal. And I am certain that they will ensure such a rejection in any EUREF2 will be regarded as a mandate to walk away from the EU with no deal.

But who knows.

At the end of the day, the YES movement must play to its own strengths and its own positive argument for constitutional change and care less about our opposition’s. Not that I think they have or have ever had any particular positives for Scotland remaining in the UK.

heraldnomore

Interesting discussion over at Richard Murphy’s blog on defeating the tories. Developing well BTL. Disbelief though at suggestion of Labour celebrating tories winning seats in Scotland from SNP.

link to taxresearch.org.uk

Anyone got any screen shots or articles confirming Labour’s glee at tories winning seats?

Breeks

Daisy Walker says:
21 October, 2017 at 4:55 pm
In reply to Breeks at 4.18.

I donā€™t do conspiracy theories either….

I think weā€™re on the same hymn sheet Daisy.

One thing Im curious about is whether the ā€œestablishmentā€ which writes the cheques for the UK, and survives the yang-yang equilibrium of Red Tories and Blue Tories, is the same UK establishment which has been running the UK for decades, or whether this reckless, feckless Brexiteering Dark Money ā€œestablishmentā€ is the same establishment, or a cheap, loadsamoney nouveau riche alternative.

What I mean by that is that this Dark Money Establishment was perfectly tolerable when it was promising Dickensian values in the workplace, widespread deregulation and abandonment of social burdens like the NHS, in otherwords, Rule Britannia and happy times for the wealthy.

However I get a sense of tension, that this Dark Money Establishment has got Brexit very wrong indeed. It gave themTheresa May to be strong and stable. Oh dear. It promised Ruth Davidson could deliver Scotland. Whoops. Yes, we can divide the EU by appealing to individual national interests… nope. Bit by bit, the Brexit Dream has turned into a nightmare, it has made a lot of people very nervous, and put a vast quantity of UK wealth at high risk status, – and just as unforgivably, it has also been indiscreet in revealing its interference and influence. ā€œThat simply isnā€™t good enough dear boy….ā€

I wonder if we have one Establishment divided, or whether we are seeing two completely separate Establishments…

Look at Boris Johnson. I sense there are as many Tories who would see him strung up as there are who would thank him for Brexit. The Establishment has an identity crisis.

Footsoldier

Listening to tonight’s BBC news it is clear that quite a lot of people will conflate the Scottish and Catalan situation.

It is time to make a lot more of Scotland and England being joined by the Treaty of Union and treaties can be broken. No better example than EU/UK. This is something I never hear from the SNP.

This might possibly stop uninformed people comparing Scotland with regions of England. An example this week was Scotland having the most potholes. I did not hear anyone say this was comparing an entire country with one third of the UK land mass with a region of England. In reverse a bit like saying England has more potholes than Aberdeenshire.

Brian Powell

On the Treaty of the Union. most don’t know about it and we really need to ask why that is.

It’s the same as the lack of knowledge about Devolved and Reserved powers.

My own thought is that Scotland has been dominated by Labour for over 50 years, and like the oil story, it is not in their interest for that information to be known.

It was interesting hearing how the attitude of Gibraltarians changed in the !980s, after they stopped teaching British history and taught their own history.

One_Scot

Once Scotland becomes Independent, I want a full size poster with all those boxes ticked. For real.

Ian Brotherhood

Does anyone remember the last time a genuine unionist came here to state their case in a civilised way?

I’m struggling here…

Could it be that they’ve given up even pretending to have one?

šŸ˜‰

Mcdenster

Magnificent. These Cairns’ are a talented bunch?

Cactus

It’s Saturday night Scotland…

frogesque

@Footsoldier 6.17

I make that very point whenever I can. We are not a region of England. The Kingdom of Scotland is an equal signatory with the Kingdom of England.

If either party decides to remove itself from that Treaty, the the United Kingdom ceases to exist.

Regarding pot holes, England fares no better than Scotland. I’m sure someone somewhere has some heavy duty shares in Kwik Fit lol!

ian murray

Tommy Sheppard gave it big time to Stirling’s Tory MP at the debate on devolved powers.

Rock

heedtracker,

“Graunā€™s funny as ever today on its Scotland region, like nothing ever happens here, fair enough theyā€™ve blacked out Clyde Shipbuilding getting UKOK reamed this but not even the rolling SLabour leader comedy show makes it to Graun news.

Instead, Scotlandā€™s shite and Scots speak funny says the Graun,”

Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, how many people in Scotland read The Guardian every day?

Rock

I also want Scotland to be a Royal Family free zone.

I am sure even Ian Brotherhood would agree with me on that.

schrodingers cat

how many people in Scotland read The Guardian every day?

recently, stu put up an article about how many electronic visitors it had
guardian about 500k
daily record 500k
wings 325k

i cant remember the exact details but the guardian is popular online in scotland

Capella

@ frogesque – re potholes – I once heard a former roads man (must have been in 2014 when I listened to these programmes) explain to Kay-with-an-e that the reason the roads are so poorly repaired is that the Councils now use inferior and cheaper bitumen. Apparently, bitumen is a valuable product which can be separated into more valuable elements. What they use on the roads is cheap rubbish which crumbles in no time.
Mystery solved.

P.S. No idea who creams off the valuable bits.

Rock

schrodingers cat,

“recently, stu put up an article about how many electronic visitors it had
guardian about 500k
daily record 500k
wings 325k”

500,000 Guardian electronic readers in Scotland?

499,999 of whom would be No voters.

We are doomed.

Ian Brotherhood

@Rock –

To what do I owe this unexpected attention?

Have yourself a Rocktastic Saturday fella!!

šŸ˜‰

Daisy Walker

@Breeks whether ‘it is one establishment divided, or two entirely different establishments’

I don’t know but either way – the madness of Brexit does not phase them. They can make money from it – it will just be asset strip on speed dial, compared with the slower asset strip by austerity measures.

@Proud Cybernat, ‘if may does not deliver the ‘will of the people’ there will be hell to pay down south…

As more info comes to light about the damage Brexit will do, the opinion polls suggest that England would now vote to stay. If Scotland gets a second indy ref over it, they will actually have a democratic argument to a new Brexit ref.

I agree we Yessers have to play to our own tune, but we did that in the last GE. We will have to cover the same ground as we already are, but with different emphasis on certain areas, and Europe/Brexit will be in the mix.

If I am right about their tactics and they pull a new Brexit ref out of the hat to be run at the same time as Indy Ref 2, I want for us to be prepared, not sucker punched.

We need to be the boring, safe, sensible, practical, reliable, grown up ones, who will put the whole thing to bed for a long time. And we need to convince our pensioners.

Breeks, Indy Ref 1, and its immediate aftermath, were extremely badly run by Better Together. I wondered when there would be a change in tactics, and thought it likely they would close the tap on giving us stories to debunk on a daily basis. That was fun, that was entertaining, that was sport – think Murphy and eggs and a man in a chicken suite running after him.

They have stopped that and they won’t repeat it. Meanwhile TM and Boris and all, are their useful fools to keep us distracted.

As I said before, I’m putting this out there so folk can have a think, and come up with ideas. The last GE showed us how we can be caught out.

Anyway, wir no ca’d canny Scots for nowt.

Welsh Sion

O/T We’ve heard a lot of talk about Art.155 of the Spanish Constitiution and Rajoy behaving like Henry VIII with regard to Catalunya, but no one in the MSM seem to have provided us with a copy of the text to analyse. I now remedy this situation (in English translation) for any lawyers among you to sift through.

“Article 155
1. If an Autonomous Community does not fulfil the obligations
imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way seriously prejudicing the general interests of Spain, the Government, after lodging a complaint with the President of the Autonomous Community and failing to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by an absolute majority of the Senate, take the measures necessary in order to compel the latter forcibly to meet said obligations, or in order to protect the above-mentioned general interests.”

LATEST: Catalan President Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid’s plan to curb the region’s autonomy.
In a statement, he described the imposition of direct rule as the worst attack on Catalonia’s institutions since the Franco dictatorship. (Statement made @ 8pm tonight, UK time.

(PS I have been following the Plaid Cymru Annual Conference. Cheers to Tommy Sheppard for his visit and speech.)

Scott

Ministers ā€˜could reduce Universal Credit waiting timeā€™ following outcry

Ministers are ready to reduce the waiting time for Universal Credit (UC) payments from six weeks following an outcry from Tory MPs, it has been suggested.

Did Ruth Davidson lie when she was on the Andrew Marr program

ronnie anderson

@ Welsh Sion . Another anti climatic statement from Puigdemont the Catalan Parliament will be closed down before he declares Independence , people in Catalonia will be frustrated by his wait & see attitude .

stewartb

Belatedly caching up on today’s thread. The discussion around a scenario of a re-run of the EU referendum for the UK is very important in the context of planning for an Indref2. Thanks Daisy at 1.16pm for raising it.

A second EU referendum for the UK remains at least a possibility, and may become more probable if the BREXIT negotiations continue to be a mess, and the UK ‘elites’ (the ones with ‘skin in the game’ financially) and their media allies come to the view that what the UK is facing – no deal or a ‘hard’ BREXIT – because of how negotiations are being conducted by May’s government, is not anymore in their financial interest. When the prospect of a hard BREXIT is coupled to the risk of the break up of the UK following an IndyRef2, this will surely focus the mind of powerful parts of the British ‘establishment’ which have so far remained fairly quiet in the hope that the worst of BREXIT would be mitigated by sensible, competent negotiation. That is becoming a forlorn hope.

In my view, the Scottish independence movement (and the SNP) at this time lacks a well- developed, publicly promoted narrative other than the one linked, in one way or another, to BREXIT. As such, any course of action here over the short to medium term is vulnerable to being out-flanked by what the Tory government may, under behind the scenes pressure, decide.

yesindyref2

@Welsh Sion
From that A155: “take the measures necessary in order to compel the latter forcibly to meet said obligations, or in order to protect the above-mentioned general interests

That’s vague, and non-specific, so it seems to me the general principle in Law of “proportionality” would apply, or should if taken to any relevant court.

link to en.wikipedia.org

The question then would be, are Rajoy’s actions “proportionate”?

Personally I’d say no, no they’re not, they’re over the top.

Back to the pizza break from website work šŸ™‚

Ian Brotherhood

@Daisy Walker –

Love yer posts because you are asking us to get ‘back to basics’ (that phrase should be reclaimed from the Tories).

Here’s my tuppence-worth…

I would like to see Elaine C Smith heading up Yes2 and Lesley Riddoch organising the media strategy. I know the whole ‘positive discrimination’ debate is a toxic one, but this is purely pragmatic – even middle-aged white men like me are getting properly fucking fed-up seeing other middle-aged white men deciding stuff. Some of the best moments in recent UK politics have featured women making a total arse of guys. (NS vs Carmichael and Sarwar, Wood/Lucas/Sturgeon vs Paul Nuttal…there will be other examples some may want to remind us of.) It’s ‘pragmatic’ because Scottish society is, I feel, a lot more matriarchal than many are prepared to admit, and if the ‘mother’ in a household suddenly stops buying the Daily Mail and voices criticism of Tories, you can be sure the man of the house will take note. (I’m really trying to avoid stereotypes here, but am basing these conjectures on people/families I’ve known.)

As a former SSP member I’d love to see Colin Fox step down and make way for someone fresh, female and older – someone who has the confidence to sever all ties with RISE, apologise for the strategy adopted post-indyref1, and reassert the party’s own independence (a minor aspect, aye, but important to folk like me and we were widely acknowledged as very good campaigners). Characters like Jonathon Shafi and Cat Boyd are, intentionally or not, extremely divisive. This is just a wish-list, aye, but I might as well add that I’d love to see Tommy Sheridan just call it a day – I know that will upset some, but he’s become a real liability. The original aim of the SSP was to unite ‘the Left’ and it managed to do that – no mean feat! The sad truth is that TS has, in the past decade, done more to divide the Left than anyone and it’s pretty clear that he’s never ever going to repair the damage. The guy is personable, charming and still relatively young – he can forge a fresh career.

Last thing on my list – I’d like to see Nicola Sturgeon going back to the formula she used in the early stages of the indy1 campaign – ‘we can, we should and we must’ (get independence). That was the basic skeleton she used for a long time and it was very effective. (The leaders of the other indy-supporting parties could easily adopt the same framework and customise it.)

“We can/should/must…can/should/must…can/should/must…”

The only way we’ll ever get through to older voters is by keeping the message simple and repeating it until we’re blue in the proverbial. If anything, Brexit has given even more edge to the ‘must’ part i.e. the most important bit – only the most thrawn characters can now adhere to the BTUKOK line.

That’s me done Daisy – none of it’s intended to irk anyone and it’s all heartfelt. I hope you get much more feedback – perhaps even some from Scottish Tories!

šŸ˜‰

David McDowell

“The Spanish government will take control of Catalan public media in order to ‘guarantee accurate, objective and balanced information’.”

Just like that nice accurate, objective and balanced BBC, eh, Rajoy?!

heedtracker

Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, how many people in Scotland read The Guardian every day?

Probably about 3, Rock.

But that doesn’t prevent Severin Carrell being wheeled out by beeb Scotland gimp network, as just one of their UKOK talking heads, to explain how shite Scots are without or because we no longer vote red tory.

Its noteworthy that stinky olde Graun’s hammer of the Scots is visibly ageing by the UKOK day. Karma and hard work going through every single news thing about his Scotland region and then not printing anything.

David McDowell

The same people who get hysterical if a BBC journalist is accused of being a little biased are nonetheless happy to support the Spanish government in taking control of the entire Catalan public media! It’s difficult to think of a more appalling example of double standards.

yesindyref2

Been thinking about it over my pizza, from that wiki article about proportionality:

“In European Union law there are generally acknowledged to be four stages to a proportionality test, namely

1 there must be a legitimate aim for a measure
2. the measure must be suitable to achieve the aim (potentially with a requirement of evidence to show it will have that effect)
3. the measure must be necessary to achieve the aim, that there cannot be any less onerous way of doing it
4. the measure must be reasonable, considering the competing interests of different groups at hand”

The highest court in Spain as a member of the EU is the ECJ (CJEU), same as it is for the UK. I think Puigdemont has played it straight, apart from the Referendum itself perhaps. But he has correctly suspended UDI.

And that Rajoy through arrogance is playing it wrong. Which means that if Spain actually proceeds to close down Catalonia, the Catalans must take it immediately to the ECJ, as personally I think Spain’s actions actually fail all 4 tests of proportionality, as it’s unlikely even to work at all, even short term let alone long term. In any case an initial submission should be able to make it clear there’s a case to answer on that test, which I presume is buried somewhere n the Lisbon Articles which Spain has signed up to and ratified.

And as far as I’m aware, the ECJ could hear an appeal for an interim interdict which means Spain would have to desist until the case was heard. It could of course refuse to accept such an ECJ ruling which means it’s out of the EU immediately, with no deal.

But who knows, IANAL.

galamcennalath

I think some of the hidden details of this report are going to be interesting.

link to archive.is

A no deal Brexit will cost Bristol and Aberdeen about Ā£4billion over five years, The first thing to point out is that the population of Aberdeen is half Bristol’s. It suggests Swindon will lose Ā£2billion yet it has a population similar to Aberdeen. Therefore Scotland is being hit harder.

It also suggests a Norway style agreement would cost over half of a no deal exit! So, at best it’s awful, at worst it’s an utter catastrophe.

UK five year cost of hard Brexit will be Ā£430billion. This article doesn’t give Scotland’s share but presumably the full report does. Ā£10billion+ a year out of the Scottish economy, I’m guessing.

We do want to jump over their cliff, and even Norway style sucks!

yesindyref2

I said “ It could of course refuse to accept such an ECJ ruling which means itā€™s out of the EU immediately, with no deal.

That’s not true of course, it would be suspended from voting meanwhile. But I couldn’t resist a bit of viciousness šŸ™‚

William Wallace

@ Ronnie A

Beginning to wonder if he is really prepared to fight for what he believes in or if there is an element of doubt creeping in with more than a passing thought toward self preservation.

If so, it’s not right to have put the good people of Catalonia in harms way like that. They stood up peacefully against significant levels of state sponsored violence to express their will on the understanding that, their will would be respected and acted upon by their own leaders.

It’s easy for me to stand on the sidelines and say that ofc but, I do wonder if he has the cajones to see it through. I sincerely hope I am wrong on this.

manandboy

Anyway, it’s all (Sir) David Murray’s fault. It was he who let the cat out of the RFC bag about the systemic corruption of The British Establishment.

galamcennalath

It’s annoying when certain parts of the media refer to those who voted Remain, and still retain that viewpoint, as REMOANERS.

I was trying to think of a suitable derogatory name for those who voted Leave. LEAPERS, perhaps. Those Hell bent to leaping of a cliff!

In Scots they would of course be LOUPERS, which carries it’s own appropriate double meaning.

Whaur’s ma jaikit?

yesindyref2

@WW
If he rushes about like a frt in a thunderstorm, it won’t achieve the aims. What he is doing is let the other side make mistakes, and they’re doing that in abundance.

Sometimes non-action is absolutely the correct thing to do.

galamcennalath

@me at 10:21

Just realised louper is French for …. to miss, to flunk, to mess up, to screw up

šŸ™‚

William Wallace

@ YIR2

Totally get where you are coming from and fools rush in as they say.

Let’s hope you are right.

Ken500

In Catalonia Puigdemont does not have the vote. A third+ support Independence. The turnout is 30% to 40%. That is not a majority.that is needed for the Independence vote. Under Spainish Law Rajoy is acting legally. In Spain they put people in jail. If they break the Law. Bankers, the head of Bsnkia etc went to jail, lawyers, politicians, Royalty. They charged the King’s sister and brother in law with corruption and property fraud. Over property deals. He got convicted? Rajoy has been accused of corruption receiving illegal payments but they could not make it stick. There is a political fraud scandal every other week. The Spanish despise the politicians. They supported it when politicians and others go to jail. It should be a deterrent.

The Spanish Gov will have to work out a settlement eventually. They will not want bother to administrate Catalonia. It will be too much trouble, fuss and bother.

K1

this is good..unbiased in-depth reporting on Catalonia

http://tstvscotland.weebly.com

Sinky

Sky News Review again perpetuating the myth that Scotland is a subsidy junkie compared to Catalonia which makes a positive contribution to Spain’s economy.

One_Scot

Really love the cloud behind the sign, it gives the drawing a great sense of depth. That’s the mark of a true artist.

William Wallace

@ K1

Not sure where they got their stream from earlier but, I watched Puigdemont’s statement on there and there was some halfwit Yoon guest offering totally one sided analysis and it was not favourable to Catalonia and it’s people.

I know that is not the fault of the folk behind the channel as they have to work with the hand they are dealt but, still…

heedtracker

Sky News Review again perpetuating the myth that Scotland is a subsidy junkie compared to Catalonia which makes a positive contribution to Spainā€™s economy.

Yes but that endless scrounger Scot stuff, so deeply cherished by England shuts down comparable “selfish” Catalan style monstering of Scottish independence.

stewartb

galamcennalath @ 10.03pm

Thanks for the link to the London Schools of Economics analysis of the economic cost of BREXIT.

As the evidence of a very substantial economic ‘hit’ on the UK (and Scottish) economy from BREXIT emerges from such independent sources, there must come a time (and soon) when this negative impact on Scotland’s economy and people, COMBINED with the leverage of Scotland’s democratic vote to remain in the EU, converge and together make for a wholly justifiable, compelling case to go for Indyref2. In 2014, Better Together played the supposed negative economic impact ‘card of a Yes vote’: now is the time to beat the British Nationalists at their own game.

The case for independence goes far beyond short/medium term economic performance in my view, but tactically the merits of the Yes movement and the SNP/Greens ramping up the profile of the evidence on the economic costs of BREXIT is appropriate at this time, and necessary. We need to be on the front foot rather that wait around to see what emerges from UK-EU negotiations.

yesindyref2

@WW
I hope so too. But he seems to have made all the right steps so far, and has the movement behind him, able to hide away huge piles of ballots, play dominies for heaven’s sake when the guards burst in.

Like us though, he too has his impatient elements he has to keep happy šŸ™‚

heedtracker

Not sure where they got their stream from earlier but, I watched Puigdemontā€™s statement on there and there was some halfwit Yoon guest offering totally one sided analysis and it was not favourable to Catalonia and itā€™s people.

There’s a new Beeb r4 news gimp today hosting their vote tory PM show today, interviewing a pro Catalan activist who got completely monstered by this very angry beebster.

Its worth a listen to, if you’re into that kind of tory BBC England fury at the “separatists” of another country.

The Catalan is called Castro too. She wasn’t that great, keep it simple is the way, when you’re in the beeb gimp line of fire.

Tackety Beets

@ galamacennalath Ref Louper

Twisted for a minute , then remembered as we approached puberty we discussed “Loupin dykes wi wer faither”

William Wallace

@YIR2
The Dominoes moment was first class.

Sometimes, I am the impatient element šŸ˜‰ but, at the same time, I do understand that there are times when it is necessary to play the long game to reach our desired goal.

We’ve waited a lifetime after all, what’s another couple of year?

yesindyref2

@Ken500
In Catalonia Puigdemont does not have the vote. A third+ support Independence. The turnout is 30% to 40%.

That’s just plain wrong Ken500, the turnout was 43% = 2,286,217 votes, plus 700,000 seized ballots. Of the total votes case including blank or invalid ones, 89.4% voted YES, that’s 38.5% of the whole electorate, and we don’t know how many of the 700,000 might have voted YES, or how many YES voters stayed away completely.

I wish you’d stop repeating wrongness about the Catalonian referendum. If you’re going to do it, stick to reported information, supervised by teams including from Scotland, including from our YES.

William Wallace

@ Heed

Liz Castro??

yesindyref2

OT
Russell Howard on STV Woss saying the BBC try to censor what he says.

Ken500

Scotland is already suffering from Westminster rule. Even without Brexit. Scotland is losing Ā£20Billion a year. In lost revenues etc because of Westminster interference. Scotland will lose Ā£8Billion+ lose 8,000+ jobs. Aberdeen/ NE already mismanaged by unfair Tory taxes will be the most affected by Brexit. Ā£200,000 gained from fishing industry? will not fully compensate. Despite what some techters believe, Dumb fecks.

Scotland has lost over 4Billion a year in Oil & Gsx revenues. Tory tax 40% since Jan 2016. Higher before when the price had fallen. Scotland lost thousands of jobs. More Oil & Gas has to be imported. Fracked Gas from the US. Gas from Norway. putting up the balance of payments and the debt, Westminster ignorant low lives caused exploration and production to be cut because of too high taxes when the price had fallen. Less profits to invest. The last seven years since 2010 they have run down the industry. They haven’t got a clue. Simpletons.

Scotland has to pays Ā£Billions in debt repayment in money it hasn’t borrowed or spent. Westminster spends it in the rest of the UK. On the accounts there is Ā£9Billion of unexplained expenses. Why are these expenses unexplained? The reason accounts are done is to identify expenses. False accounting. Illegal methods. Ā£1Billiin on Trident. Ā£3Bilion? In tax evasion. Whisky companies etc making vast profits pay no tax. Scotland can’t borrow Ā£6Billion? to invest in the economy. Scotland loses EU investment grants renewables etc because of Westminster indecision. Scotland receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU as part of the UK. Westminster took extra CAP payments made to Scotland, to adjust for the situation. Then gave then to wealthy farmers in the south.The minister said BT as he was doing it. A SNP, LibDem and Labour? MP we’re telling him not to do it. He just ignored them. Stuck up, cocky freak.

It just goes on and on.

Robert Goodwill (migration rep) who is illegally chucking people out of Scotland. Robert Goodwill was the Minister (Transport) who refused an Inquiry. when helicopters were falling from the sky killing people in the Oil industry. 2009. Helicopter companies were breaking UK Health & Safety Laws.

There was a cover up. Aided by BAA? led by a helicopter training pilot. Even though the Westminster transport committee agreed there should be an Inquiry. The helicopter owners sold up two years later for Ā£250Million. The make of helicopters were subsequently grounded after two further crash. One in Norway. When the crashes happened. The authorities blamed the workers. They said they had to sit beside larger windows and lose weight. So they could get out in time if there was a crash? Not blame the Company for not leaving a paper trail for maintenance matters as required by Law. The faulty helicopter would have been grounded. A subsequent Sherriff Inquiry in Scotland established the facts of what happened by giving immunity from prosecution to the (guilty) witnesses. No sanctions.

ScottieDog

I think indyref2 mandate has already been implicitly linked to brexit. Be pretty difficult for SNP to justify if the genie was put back in the bottle.

Of course the SNP could stand in 2021 to have an unconditional mandate for indyref2. Best thing to do meanwhile is to keep building the country we want albeit with the limitations placed upon us by WM. We Need to be innovative.

William Wallace

Give me back my whisky šŸ™‚
link to youtube.com

From his “Hell No I ain’t happy” gig. He switches from stand up to Otis Lee Crenshaw and band about 42 minutes in.

link to youtube.com

One of my all time favourite comedy gigs and worthy of sharing for those that have not seen it and need a good laugh.

Enjoy šŸ˜‰

William Wallace

Sorry Stu.

Last post was for off-topic. šŸ™‚

heedtracker

William Wallace says:
21 October, 2017 at 11:11 pm
@ Heed

Liz Castro??

I dont know. Its on iplayer though. I’ve not heard the BBC news caster before but she was pretty amazing, if you’re a tory, and if she is new, it is her first time filling in for Eddie Mair.

Its likely she’s a BBC World Service big hitter though, that crew are the most ferocious tories around, even for the beeb, its a great nursery for London tory beeb hatcheteers.

I think one of the biggest issues behind the seemingly low Catalan ref turn out was the real threat of police violence.

You only need to see how our resident yoonster and fear monger Rock, jumped on it all to threaten Scots with the same level of violence from the British state, actually Rock the roaster threaten Scots with much much worse.

More broadly, you can see how britnat culture in Scotland and England is also wrapping up Scotland and Catalonia together, with the same style of fear mongering.

I’ve seen riot cops in action in central London as far back as the Thatcher poll tax riots. These guys do not take prisoners.

William Wallace

@ K1

Iā€™ve seen riot cops in action in central London as far back as the Thatcher poll tax riots. These guys do not take prisoners

Me too and neither do we šŸ˜‰

All we have to do is undo šŸ˜‰ Our situation is entirely different.

Cactus

Head!ing HOME..

It’s raining Glasgow.

Xx.

Dave McEwan Hill

Ken500 at 10.32

Independence support in Catalonia among Catalonians is at about 70% and almost total among the young Catalonians.

Ian Brotherhood

@Cactus & WW –

Half-cut here.

Ah hear Edwina Currie on the fuckin radio, but ah don’t hear Smallaxe.

It’s a strange one, eh, when ye’re an atheist but ye find yersel prayin?

Dave McEwan Hill

yesindyref2 at 11.10

Well said. We had meeting on Thursday night with folk who had been in Barcelona and Tarragon for some time. The only significant level of opposition to independence in Catalonia comes from the Spanish incomers (and even some of them support Catalonian Independence because Spain is deeply corrupt). The huge anti independence rally held in Catalonia was dominated by Spaniards because the Spanish Government gave free transport across Spain to anybody who wanted to go to that demonstration.

The reason Rajoy is stopping a democratic referendum is because he knows he will heavily lose it.

What our contacts to Catalonia found most moving was a huge crown in Barcelona singing Flower of Scotland and then singing a song about “Trish Marwick”. What they found most disgusting was the Spanish para military thugs breaking all the fingers on one hand of a woman who had dodged through them to vote.

We are organising twinning with some Catalonian organisations.

William Wallace

@ Ian

Welcome aboard the night train brother šŸ˜‰ Get it on with Rich Hall and Otis Lee and let’s fkin laugh our way to Independence with our own occasional comedic interludes šŸ™‚

One Scotland, One Catalunya, One love and all our love to the mighty sma axe.

Peace to all the wingers, peace to all Scots and peace to all the world šŸ™‚ šŸ˜‰

Eh’ll drink tae that.

yesindyref2

@Dave McEwan Hill
I read that David Cameron was a hero in Catalonia because of the Edinburgh Agreement and our Referendum.

Imagine that!

Cactus

Aye ahm HOME fellow IBro ~

Has anybuddy seen the other side of this board…

Welcome To England!:

You are NOW entering a…

1) bridge toll
2) prescription charge
3) tuition
4) smoke twas our idea.
5) frack
6) smack
7) Westminster
8) nukes (get them aff oor land)

ZONE.

They ain’t free.

Cheers Chris.

Tick-tick.

Robert J. Sutherland

Dave McEwan Hill @ 00:18,

Saw a news report @ 23:00 on Euronews covering both sides fairly, but when the Rajoy part came on latterly, ach, I was back to shouting at the telly again.

I guess one paradoxical advantage the Catalans have is the sheer rigid intransigence of Rajoy & Co. – it’s a futile haughty throwback to the beginning of last century – and it’s so spectacularly counterproductive for his Unionism.

As far as Catalonia is concerned, his regime is metaphorically cutting off the branch it’s sitting on.

Cactus

Scotland’s Hamish looks cool as fuck.

Check his Elvis frontal quiff out!

Rarrrrr.

William Wallace

This is radio Scotland.

William Wallace
passing the mic
to the guid auld cactus
through the night šŸ˜‰

Cactus

How’s them BR UK EXIT talks gaun PM TM?

BRitain is of the land only, not of politics.
(we’ll sort that out too)

Update PM TM…? transparency.. nae chance.

The EU will enlighten us.

What’s happening People of Catalonia? ~

Ye aweright?

Ffs Rahoy, quit being a dick, Catalonia knows…

Tick-tick.

William Wallace

Nae bather Cactus.

Eh’ll lead iy

You dae what ya want and sling iz the dinghy ya dick šŸ˜‰ šŸ™‚ … šŸ™‚

Cactus

(been buzzin’ aboot on aff-tapic and other…)

Cool man Wallace, haud the stage, ahm still warmin’ up.

Get a wee hauf doon ye!

n get it up ye!

Ya dick!

šŸ™‚

William Wallace

A wee hauf ffs šŸ™‚

Best radio hand ower ever and you drapped the mic ya fker.;) Eh’m fkin blootered and waiting to pass the mic to a mair capable compere.

Love ya Bro
It’s your show
the night is young
Let’s fkin go !!!

Cactus

Ra boys urr back in the tongs.

FUCK you ya dick, TYB. šŸ™‚

Love Scotland.

An howsabout dem boxes.. you may tick em.

Love William Wallace an all he has done for us.

and where we are at now!

Cactus

Tick.

Tick.

Cumin or comin’ soon all over a country near you.

Smile.

That’s the normal happy reaction.

That sounds spicy!

Be free.

Give us the call when we’re ready WW.

14 / 17.

Cactus

A toast to the People of Glasgow ~

We are amazing.

We are the key.

To free.

ACG.

William Wallace

Where are we now
Cactus ye say
Wir embracing comedy
what else kin we dae?

Here hiv we been n
wiv been waiting ah night
fir you to appear
and tak up the mic šŸ˜‰

The show is ah yours
and o one thing em sure
yir a legend amongst many
and yir legend endures šŸ˜‰

So here is the mic
and let it be known
that you speak for all Scotland
and Yir seed have you sown.

So as eh freestyle
wi a a couple o lines
let me say to thee
that eh consider thee fine

A man of all conscience
and an intelligent word
A man o wir country
that needs to be heard

You are like a brother
and I love you like ain
a credit to all Scotland
wha’s like ya but nane

Peace, love and unity
Meh time is dane… šŸ˜‰
If eh write any mair
Eh’ll go fkin insane šŸ™‚

Cactus

A toast to the People of Scotland ~

Keepin’ it real.

Scotland.

Glasgow.

Perth.

Rhu.

YOU!

Tick-Tick.

Tock not required.

Cactus

Wales doesnae even get a menshie!

Cactus

Good Wiiliam Wallace.

Ahm humbled.

Cactus

Anyone who comments here from now on in..

..is a catalyst for change.

Be passionate.

Be you.

Le poetry is bon.

Cactus

Ffs William Wallace ~

Just read urs about another 17 times in a row…

Cheers bro…

Same tae u.

Wae love,
Scotland..

Cactus

We.

Own.

Midnight.

Never forget that fact, now is later.

Welcome to Scotland.

You should.

X X
X
X X

Cactus

Any questions?

Cactus

Welcome to Scotland.

Come and join us.

Quickstep.

Tick.

Cactus

iScotland never sleeps.

369 days a year.

Questions?

All is šŸ™‚

Aye.

Cactus

Gies a shout when ur guid Smallaxe… Ah’ll jump a train over tae G a gain.

I drank two German wheat beers tonight.. one of the emblems was a picture of two smallaxe’s, accompanied by the numbers next 14 & 17, on a cool dawn blue background.

Herman Pschoor or something.

Tick two.

@WW, dude šŸ™‚

Cactus

Yeah, somebuddy said it earlier…

A1 size earlier.

Welcome to Scotland…

Let’s see that on an A-board walking up n down Buchanan St.

Ur. iFuture. Is. Nigh.

Go figure.

3.

Cactus

Non apologies for the rattling of this thread šŸ™‚

Have an amazing Sunday, Scotland.

It is SO important that ye do..

That’s not later, it’s now.

tick tick

Cactus

Ok Cairnstoon Hamish sits on the top of my LHS desk speaker…

I swear (on the Wot-Wots) that he just moved there.

The Power of Scotland!

Cactus

Good morning, marnin’

LOVE.

Cactus

SO…

“Embracing comedy!”

That’s all eh us…

“what else kin we dae? grassroots?”

Dae Aye.

Aye!

Cactus

Ahm likin’ ECOHamish ~

Green is good.

Colour…

Stick.

Cactus

Scotland Welcomes You.

Scottish Steve

I hope the last two boxes will be ticked soon.

Cactus

Cheers, in any order is cool.

Scottish Steve ~

Exact-alee.

Tickety.

Soon.

Cactus

Welcome to Scotland.

You are now entering a FREE zone.

Full stop.

Macart

Those last two WILL be achieved you know? When? Hard to say, but basically when we’re ready as a population.

Remember, a referendum doesn’t equal independence. It’s just a ballot, an opportunity. Scotland can and WILL have self determination only when a majority want to have it. Scotland IS a nation, a country. It is a country that is party to an international treaty, the history and mechanics of which are well known by now, but it is not currently a nation state.

We had one opportunity recently, because it is our right as a national population. We’ll have another as and when we wish it. It’s kinda why unionist political parties go into overdrive trying to convince the electorate they don’t want one (duh). We can have one anytime someone stands on a ticket of offering us one and we mandate their offer. It’s ALL about your permission. Your rights. Your freedom to choose.

Scotland’s population is only ever two ballots away from self determination at any given time and theoretically one under certain circumstances. To rip off a fairly popular fantasy franchise… YOU HAVE THE POWERRRRRR… and you always did. No Westminster vote can or could stop the popular will of the electorate, only our own fear, uncertainty and doubt. Again, it’s kinda why certain folk go out of their way to foster same (duh number two). The day you decide they’re talking a load of Jackie Baillie. The day YOU decide you’ve given them more than enough chances to prove their competence and worth. The day you decide enough is enough, is the day they no longer have any power over your decisions, your aspirations, or your needs.

So in your own time then. šŸ™‚

Breeks

Yesindyref2 says:
21 October, 2017 at 9:09 pm
@Welsh Sion
From that A155: ā€œtake the measures necessary in order to compel the latter forcibly to meet said obligations, or in order to protect the above-mentioned general interestsā€

Thatā€™s vague, and non-specific, so it seems to me the general principle in Law of ā€œproportionalityā€ would apply, or should if taken to any relevant court.

link to en.wikipedia.org

That all sounds a bit ā€œSewellā€, and the weasily words ā€œwould not normallyā€.

The only general principle of Law which I would apply is expediency invariably outranks justice.

The question then would be, are Rajoyā€™s actions ā€œproportionateā€?
Personally Iā€™d say no, no theyā€™re not, theyā€™re over the top.

I would agree. Spain is freefalling towards fascism, and the storm clouds are gathering over Catalonia. International law is not a lion which will run in and keep the peace, it is a mouse which will audit the carnage and apportion blame afterwards.

Am I too cynical? Perhaps I am. International Law it strikes me has a mere fingertip control over any Nation. The principles are complex, and enforcement is problematic. What do we expect the International Community to actually do? Put UN troops into Catalonia, or UN lawyers?

Laws would be great if people observed them, but without police action to back it up, in real terms, what does it amount to?

It seems to me, and itā€™s crude, but when it comes to International Law, you act first, and defy those who would oppose you. If you can live with the sanctions, the principle of expediency I mentioned will facilitate years of inaction and standoff. Just look at Israel, the US in Guantanamo and Tony Blairā€™s war crimes in Iraq,.. the list is long.

Just look at the Act of Union. Thoroughly inconsistent with the principles of Scots Law, but the will of the aggressor prevails for the expediency of peace and the excused non-intervention it affords other countries.

Back on my hobby horse, Scotland should start acting a sovereign Nation, and defy others to overrule us. Even our most noble Declaration of Arbroath was only recognised by the Pope in 1328, eight years after it was written, and after King Robert the Bruce had already won Scotlandā€™s war of independence and the English had capitulated and formally recognised Scotland. It was the bold and uncompromising Bruce which earned Scotland its status, International Law played catch-up.

Fortune favours the brave. Sovereignty favours the bold. International Law is spectacularly elastic.

yesindyref2

@Breeks
But firstly, the UK Government found it’s not above the Law as it found with Miller, and secondly it’s not International Law that counts for this as the first step, it’s EU Law – if it applies. And though International Law consists of Treaties and Conventions which aren’t always signed or ratified, EU Law takes its base in the Lisbon Treaty and its Articles which have been signed up for and ratified by all 28 member states, with the CJEU / ECJ as final court, over all national courts if applicable – something the UK really doesn’t like.

Apart though from whether that Principle of Proportionality would be met by the proposed actions, there is a question of whether it even applies to a member state, under the principle of subsidiarity.

And at that stage my brian turns into a meaningless blob of jelly and custard, pass the cream and cake pelase.

Ken500

The Ref on having a Referedum was 2,3Million votes out if a 5.5million electorate. Reported 30%+ turnout. The Catalonian authorities would not release the total turnout figures. Total confusion, . The opposition Parties told people to boycott the vote. So 30%+ did not vote. So the Ref on a Ref did not produce a majority vote, but was declared a 90% victory??. Not on those figures.

Then the Ref went ahead in the confusion. Same voting figure 2.3Million in favour. Now given as a 43% turnout. The opposition voters are still boycotting the vote. You can’t ignore people who are boycotting the vote because they believe it is legitimate to do so. Or not voting because they do not care? Or whatever – apathy. The claims of 700,000 votes going missing. Almost an impossibility? How were they secreted away. Where is the evidence, photos of the missing votes or ballot boxes? These votes being carted away. Nearly 1/3 of the votes cast? They would have needed fleets of vans/lorries to have taken them away. The Catalonian administration was in charge.

2.3Million out of an electorate of 5.5million. A population of 7.5million. 1.5Million under eighteen. There are 1/2Million not in the electoral roll. Are they EU/foreign citizens residents not allowed to vote. Yet the decision will affect their position, No taxation without representation.

The banking crash happened on the Costas. The Mediterranean coast. Including Catalonia/Barcelona. That is where most of the miss selling holiday homes, banking fraud, Pozzi schemes took place. Not in Madrid etc, although they were detrimentally affected.

From Catalonia, Valencia, Havia. Costa Brava. Right down to Marbella Costa de Sol. That is where the majority of the housing/crash miss selling etc was going on. Fleecing other EU citizens and foreigners, False housing speculation. Financed by money borrowed from the London lending markets for property spectulation on the Costas. Often by UK register companies – subsidiaries. Catalonia (is like London) one of the wealthiest parts of Spain. Property prices halved with the crash. Many (foreigners) people lost their deposits, life savings, pensions. Lost Ā£Millons/Billions. No come back under Spanish Law especially for EU/foreign citizens. Just forget it. The Spanish Law is antiquated. Needs reform and more regulation.

The Spanish Gov had to borrow ā‚¬Billions from the EU/ECB to bail out the Spanish banks (including in Catalonia). That had to be paid back by the whole of Spain not just the areas (Costas) mainly affected. The burden fell in the poorer rural areas which were affected. They had to be protected/helped. . They had not caused the crisis. There is some kind of retribution system in Spain because it is a Federal system, The Catalonia authorities did not want to pay their dues. To help out the other poorer rural areas. Ā£4Billion was in dispute. The Spanish Supreme Court backed up Catalonia and stated they did not have to pay. To appease them?

Catalonia had protection as one of the wealthiest parts of Spain. A lot of tourism. Barcelona is one of the most visited Cities in the world. A major tourist/commerce port. Tourism, fishing, business and commerce centre. Links to Latin America. Shared language. Middle East commerces. Trading, passenger vessels go to Morocco, Middle East/Africa. Gateway to commerce. Boats go from Denia/Valencia to Ibiza – Morroco.

The Catalonia authorities knew what could happen but went ahead in any case. Then when they had the Referendum which they claimed as a 90% victory. It wasn’t unless you ignore the opposition? In a so called Democracy, Then asked for talks. Adding to the confusion.Then they were all out in the streets wanting reconciliation and peace?

Catalonia has autonomy, Not complete fiscal autonomy, because of the redistribution? Federal system. Raises and lowers it’s own taxes etc. There seems to be tax evasion in Spain. The politicians are all corrupt involved in scandal etc, including in Catalonia. A poltical scandal every other week. It is reported Puigdemont owns a Catalonian national TV station. He was a journalist. Then Mayor of Girona. That would not happen in any free and fair democracy. The President owning a national TV station beaming out propaganda?

It is the exact opposite of Scotland getting blasted with unionist propaganda. Support for Independence is higher in Scotland 50%+. It is 1/3+ in Catalonia. Despite the rallies in the streets. Spain has four months holidays a year, That could explain the large rallies on the streets. Public holidays. A month at Christmas. A month at Easter Two months in summer July/August. It is too hot to work. All the fiestas inbetween. It averages out one week a month. Nice heathy lifestyle. Good food, plenty of sunshine and relaxation. TV is not very good but no one watches it. Except the sport. Football. They are football crazy. Tennis, golf swimming as well. Lots of galas. There are too many other things to do. Fishing, hiking swimming, water sports. Eating, social drinking community activities, family activities. Catholic Church but separation of Church from State on democracy, The former King helped to lay down, achieve Democracy. Universal Suffrage 1978.

Rajoy wants there to be elections. Then the powers will be given back. The Spanish Gov will not want to Gov Catalonia. It would be too much time time and trouble. Fuss and bother. It would break Spanish Law is the powers are not handed back. The Spanish Gov will want regime change after the reason revelations. That are considered to be illegal under Spanish Law/Constitution. Will reforms come about with agreement. Possibly. Some good might come out of it. Catalonia has to face it’s responsibilities as well. Spain is in the Eurozone.. The Spanish Gov and the EU guarantee Catalonia’s debt, They will not condone bringing the the Spanish economy down (Catalonia situation) or it could adversely affect the Eurozone/EU/European world economy.

The EU authorities will not let that happen. That is why they stay out of it or support the Spanish Gov taking swift action, They have to be seen doing something because it could ultimately affect so many other people. The ripples run wide. Once the crisis dies down the powers will be returned to Catalonia, They do have autonomy. The Catalonian regimemtun the Catalonian State as a fiefdom.

There is nothing but support in Spain for corrupt politicians going to jail. The majority despised the corrupt politicians with a vengeance. They support seeing corrupt politicians, lawyers, bankers going to jail. Royals being charged and put on trial. It relieves their support for justice and fairness. Also acts as a deterrent. The incumbents know the score. Step out of line. The force of the Law awaits. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Malky

Ah, the dream will never die! Incidentally, you peeps who post reams of stuff on hear (like the last couple above me) – you do know everyone just reads the first couple of lines, then moves on?

K1

‘…you do know everyone just reads the first couple of lines, then moves on?

Fixed that fur ye Malky…your welcome šŸ˜‰

yesindyref2

@Ken500
Same misreporting of figures as before from you.

In addition, if a ballot paper is A5, 80gsm, 500 sheets of A4 is approx 3 cms = 1,000 ballots. So the size of 700,000 ballots is:

700 x 0.3 x 0.2 x 0.03 = 1.3 cu metres. You could get that in a small Peugot Partner and have it only a quarter full, though at 750 Kg it would be near max load weight of 850 Kg.

Dorothy Devine

I see John Rentoul has a lovely article about Ms Davidson being the next PM – so perhaps we can have a wee tick box for a Ruth Davidson free zone too.Happy Days!

Ian Brtherhood , I note the atheist prayer for Small Axe – I was away last week and haven’t caught up with such news . I’ll add another atheist prayer to yours.

Nana

link to taxresearch.org.uk

Trump and the right wing press are lying and I know why: the rise in UK crime is my fault.
link to byline.com

Human Rights Commission requests ceasefire within region
link to rudaw.net

link to theneweuropean.co.uk

Nana

President Carles Puigdemont on Spain invoking Article 155, 21 October 2017 section in English
link to youtube.com

Catalan finances explained. This explains the smashed Catalan skulls, if anyone is interested and will be very familiar to any Scottish person who understands the true scale of our net contributions to the UK over the last 40 years.
Video with subtitles here
link to twitter.com

link to ara.cat

Insectageddon: farming is more catastrophic than climate breakdown
link to archive.is

Ken500

Brexit is the same. 1/3 support. That is why the Tories are on a hiding to nothing, Trying to push it through. Thirty years in the wilderness awaits.

17Million voted for Brexit. Out of an electorate of 45Million. A third. A population of 62Million. 2 million? people did not get to vote. EU citizens or ‘foreigners’ not registered or allowed to vote. Yet it would affect them the most. No taxation without representation.

Chucking folk out of the UK. Out of Scotland by Tories of whom no one in Scotland voted. It is an absolute scandal. Changing the rules and chucking people out of the Highlands. Depopulating Scotland of good people who have invested in it. The Highland clearances all over again. Just despicable. Outrageous. What a way to treat people. How many people from Scotland had to seek santuary in the US from the clearances, poverty etc, Imposed by the Westminster crooks and their cronies. So they can embezzle public money. Overcharging people for visas etc, Still doing it.

A 40million diaspora all over the world. The US, Canada, NZ, Australia etc. Scotland has friends in high places including in the EU. Now workers from Scotland go all over the world to work and for opportunities. In the Oil & Gas sector, finance, legal, insurance, engineering projects, medicine/science, fashion food and drink etc. They retire to Spain and other places, where their relatives stay. Or have extended visits. Or overseas travel. Travelling broadens the mind. Closes barriers with closer ties.

Not the Tory Party. Splendid isolation. That is why they are so unliked. They can’t contact, compromise or join in. Intransigent ideology. Starving vulnerable people to death. Worrying people sick. Stuck up superior freaks. Or think they are? 30 years in the wilderness awaits, after this latest performance. Not nice and dim. Watch out for Corbyn, another failure as far as Scotland is concerned. Ignorant incompetents who can’t count or read a balance sheet.

The Scottish Gov must set up a fund for expenses for these people like the Felbers for whom the guide lines are changed and fight it all the way to the ECHR. May, Rudd, and Goodwin should be censored. What a way to treat people.

Everyone should write a letter to May and Rudd to tell them what they think of their actions. The way SNP MP’s are treated at Westminster. Keep it polite if you want a reply. More trouble and strife for the administration. Or anonymous if people want to be more robust. Put in the gloves and post it far away from location. Or do both. Don’t give e-Mail or telephone numbers. M15 can be in on the act, without authoriity. Westminster governs by using the Official Secrets Act to cover up it’s crimes.

Ken500

Aye.so where were th 700,000 votes secreted to.700,000 votes is quite a pile The Catslonian authorities were organising it. Where’s the photo of the pile. Or the boxes secreted off. Someone must have taken a photo. They were all in the ballot booths. Yet no one saw it happen? They must have been collected from somewhere. Or did they vanish into thin air. Up in smoke but not one notices. Everything else was recorded. Acts of violence etc. Still deplorable but low in terms of numbers. Isolated.

yesindyref2

Mmm, that was niggling me as I based it on my 160 gsm, but it was 100gsm I checked. 700,000 ballots on A5 80gsm would be 2.2 cu metres and would fill less than half the van, but at 1.75 tonnes it would break the springs! Oh well, make it 3 vans for comfort.

wull2

I would like to make a suggestions for the new Scottish TV channel.
A news program for daily evening Scottish news that lasts even just 10 minutes at quarter to the hour every hour, so it can be viewed be everyone when they get in. it would also show up what is not intentionally not being reported by our media in Scotland.
The daily news from Scotland could be recorded, it is OK for others to do, so it will be OK for us use to push our view.

galamcennalath

Lots of Brexit rumours in the media this morning. Suggestions May has agreed a larger divorce sum, behind the scenes, and that the UK will seek a Swiss style arrangement.

No body if going to be happy. No ordinary person is going to be better off. And a load of people are going to get screwed over.

The question really now is, who will May et al actually screw over most?

Well, Scotland by default. We will come out worse off unless we choose Indy soon.

But even Brexiteers. Ordinary Leave voters wanted EU immigration controlled and they believed financial promises and so therefore do not expect to be worse off. They will be worse off, no matter what. May could go for a soft-ish Swiss get out of jail arrangement which would reduce the hardship.

However, the UK pays net Ā£128 per capita per annum, Norway Ā£106, Switzerland Ā£55. So Swiss style access will still cost say Ā£5billion per annum. The gutter press and loony Right won’t like that. And on top of the divorce bill of Ā£40+billion.

Or May could go hard. The loony Right would be appeased. They would get their ‘real Brexit’. Over five years this will cost the UK economy Ā£~450 billion. That will hit ordinary folks badly. Jobs, services, cost of living.

It’s all incomprehensible vandalism and lunacy in the name of English nationalism.

Still, I hold out hope that it will all result in IndyRef2 and a Yes win. And we leave the loonies in their asylum.

iheartScotland

Great ‘toon Chris,
And all delivered by an SNP government.
Who say’s we can’t govern ourselves for our own benefit? ..just the yoons and the MSM.

Ken500

The Brexit Bill could be Ā£60Billion+. The access money could be upwards of Ā£6Billion. The UK pays Ā£12Billion a year (ā‚¬15Billion with a ā‚¬5Billion rebate) The UK will not get Ā£5Billion? In CAP subsidies. Ā£Billions less of share defence costs which will cost UK Ā£Billions More. No EU investment Grants etc for Renewables. EU promoted cheaper safer fuel sources. No shared EU negotiated trade deals with other continents. US, China, India etc. Protectionist counties. The EU as a larger conglomerate can negotiate better terms.

The fecking, dumb, stupid Tories will be paying more for less rights. They are going to be paying more Ā£12Billion+ for a worst deal with no rights. Not to be included in decision making . Ā£5Billion repayments Ā£5Billion cost of membership. No CAP payments, No shared Defence costs. Losing Ā£Billions which will have to replaced by more cash in the UK. Tariffs on trade? It will affect the NE/Scotland the worst.

Trident will be going with Brexit. England/Wales in splendid isolation. Suits them.

These Tories are off their heads. A catastrophe. Unless these Tories go soon. Get voted out. 30 years in the wilderness.

Molly

IheartScotland

On why we canā€™t govern ourselves…

Thereā€™s a small thread on Twitter about the smacking ban proposal.

At first I thought this debate is going to fall into the two camps again. Those that support the SG and those who will oppose anything they come up with . Even though itā€™s actually a Green Party proposal ( I think some in their haste to decry the SG have not read that bit)

Turns out some of those who oppose are groups like Spiked and Be reasonable allegedly .

Now a quick google search throws up a petition by Be reasonable in Wales to oppose the smacking ban being put forward there .

The Christian Institute admit they set up pro smacking Be Reasonable Campaign and it is who they are all connected to that bothers me.Regardless of what side of the debate your on.

This is why it is essential that when BBC Scotland interview someone either on the telly or radio they must give some background to who the person is representing – otherwise they are failing ( again) to inform people that in some cases it is a right wing well financed group with a long long reach not always based in Scotland they are interviewing

Some could even consider it in that context fake news, if they knowingly carry on doing it

Fireproofjim

Galamcennalath @10.01
“It’s all incomprehensible vandalism and lunacy in the name of English nationalism”
Great phrase. Already borrowed and filed for future use..

Capella

The wealthy elite own the Tory party. They don’t care about “nations”. All they want is money and power and they will do anything to get them.

From this perspective, getting out of Europe with its human rights and social justice laws (weak though these are) is essential. Keeping small wealthy “nations” like Scotland and Catalonia under the reliable heel of undemocratic regimes is essential.

Democracy is anathema to the oligarchs.

In 2014 they were caught unawares. The polite pinstripe-suited smiles soon withered and died and were replaced by a relentless propaganda war using every means necessary.
The Francoist regime in Madrid is doing exactly the same. Except they already know a legal referendum would produce a majority for independence.
That is why they have had to bring out the batons now.

I hope the EU will respect their citizens rights and start to pressure Spain to comply with the ECHR it should have signed up to on becoming a member. Sooner or later they will have to address these issues. Later is better than never.

Legerwood

Molly @ 10.40am

The Chritian Institute was also one of the parties to the court case against the SG’s ‘Named Person’ scheme.

heedtracker

Some could even consider it in that context fake news, if they knowingly carry on doing it

Its only part of the beeb’s rolling SNP bad everything campaigning. If it wasn’t smacking ban it’s, well everything the SNP bad do do.

We’re living through a spectacular BBC propaganda war that wont be over til the SNP are gone.

And we have to assume that the BBC will be successful, if only because they have the resources, the staff numbers, 400k+ and they do always win, from Heath to Scargill, Snatcher Thatcher to Tony Blair, Fuhrage and UKIP, BBC gimp network always wins.

Unless ofcourse, we get Scotland back:D

McDuff

Capella 11.10
Good post.
Nail on the head.

galamcennalath

@Legerwood
@Molly

The Christian Institute was also one of the parties to the court case against the SGā€™s ā€˜Named Personā€™ scheme.

Aye, right. And why are we not surprised.

At 9:21am yesterday I wrote ….

” …. you just know that the same people who want to be able to beat children will be those who oppose baby boxes and named person. We all know that most fascist thugs arenā€™t actually toothless knuckle draggers, they also come well heeled. “

… an opinioned guess turns out to be the truth!

What is it with these hard right people and their ‘Christianity’?

I’m not religious but I’m certain Jesus himself would be more than a little pissed off at what they do in his name!

John H.

On Marr this morning, a smirking Chuka Umunna stated that the Spanish were wrong to go in so heavy handed in the Catalonia referendum. They should have let them have their referendum, like we “gave” the Scots.

Later Andrew Marr interviewed a member of the Spanish government, the foreign minister I think, and asked him why he didn’t allow the referendum as happened with Scotland, then declare it illegal. The Spaniard pointed out that historically and constitutionally the situation with Scotland was different. Andrew Marr decided not to pursue that line. Moving on.

Breeks

galamcennalath says:
22 October, 2017 at 10:01 am
Lots of Brexit rumours in the media this morning. Suggestions May has agreed a larger divorce sum, behind the scenes, and that the UK will seek a Swiss style arrangement.

Hmmm… thatā€™s a credible possibility, but it would be quite a feat to achieve.

However, given that the UK has forlornly tried to circumvent Barnier and attempt to strike bilateral trade agreements with individual member states, it seems incredible that Theresa May now thinks circumventing Michel Barnier by going through Donald Tusk instead is a good idea thatā€™s going to produce a better result for the UK.

The ONLY wriggle room for I see for Westminster is negotiating some kind of concession which might warrant Theresa May going back to the country for a second referendum. That too might be a cul-de-sac however, and might only reveal the true extent of how much the EU is actually delighted to see the back of the UK.

I suspect Michel Barnier does have the bare bones of a UK trade deal worked out in his head, but the UK isnā€™t going to like it, but I wouldnā€™t be at all surprised if it was a ā€œtake it or leave itā€ affair which had already reconciled itself to a few years of UK WTO tariffs just to temper the UKā€™s obnoxious exceptionalism and arrogance.

All things considered, between themselves, the Tories and UKIP have set the UK on a profoundly stupid and difficult trajectory which is going to tough on UK citizens and commerce for many decades to come, and I donā€™t actually recognise ANY meaningful gain.

I see no redeeming features in Brexit whatsoever. There is no sense in it. It is the culmination of decades of chauvinism, ignorance and narrow minded bigotry all poisoning the UK/BritNat psyche towards other peopleā€™s and culture. The British media is a disease which blights the whole UK, not just Scotland.

It would seem only Scotland has developed a slight resistance to the typical BBC garbage and finally seems alert to the need of a cure. The big question is whether we can accelerate this mini ā€œScottish Enlightenmentā€ in time to save ourselves from Brexit and prevent it happening to Scotland. We seem slow to the task however, and to be leaving ourselves with an awful lot to do, and not much time to do it. Frankly, I struggle to see the sense in that strategy either.

heedtracker

From this perspective, getting out of Europe with its human rights and social justice laws (weak though these are) is essential. Keeping small wealthy ā€œnationsā€ like Scotland and Catalonia under the reliable heel of undemocratic regimes is essential.

Its more nuanced than that though. England voted over half to Leave and we have to accept that one of England’s national characteristics is exceptionalism and dislike of foreigners.

Growing up in the UK used to mean you were indoctrinated with all kinds of English xenophobia, thick micks, greedy Jews, canny jocks, humourless loser gerries, coward ities, smelly frogs, and lets not go down the English comedy route, with tv like It Aint half hot mum, turning India’s vast extraordinary continent of many different people, religions and cultures into a really bad racist joke.

Contemporary English xenophobia may or may not be changing but this is why at least half of England wants their UK back. They do not care that its going to make them much worse off, or they actually do swallow the brexit tory Empire 2 bullshit.

There was one on BBC r4 Any Questions yesterday, plummy, tory rule Britannia waffler, Brexit is going to make Britain great again. No one cheered.

gus1940

Anybody in urgent need of a strong emetic should have a look at the hymn of praise to our not so little Colonel in the SoS.

Jack Murphy

Off Topic.
TV. CATALAN NEWS. The President of the Catalan Government,Carles Puigdemont speaks directly in English language to the People and Governments of Europe last night.

Scroll from 1:33 to 2:50.
link to tinyurl.com

His speech on TV in Catalan lasted much longer.

Glamaig

galamcennalath says:
22 October, 2017 at 10:01 am

‘Lots of Brexit rumours in the media this morning. Suggestions May has agreed a larger divorce sum, behind the scenes, and that the UK will seek a Swiss style arrangement.’

She might seek it, but from what I understand the EU doesnt want another Swiss-style arrangement because it was hideously complicated to negotiate, requires constant updating, and they dont want to go through that again?

ScottishPsyche

@ John H

When we first became aware of the way the Media perpetuates the English=UK=British superiority we raged at each and every incident. Now it is so commonplace that we basically acknowledge and move on.

Two incidents I noticed this week:

Tim Willcox, a BBC presenter, said when comparing the Scottish referendum with that of Catalonia that we had our vote and ‘the Scots lost’, not that Independence supporters lost, the SCOTS lost.

A friend alerted me to the dreadful ‘Break the News’, shortbread quiz on Radio Scotland featured Catriona Shearer, a BBC newsreader on the BBC early mornings apparently. She came across as amusing and pleasant and then an item came up about Ruth Davidson on the Bake Off. No criticism whatsoever from anyone, cutting-edge satire it is not. Anyway, Shearer said that she used to work in the back room news with Davidson way back and that Davidson was ‘normal’ and a generally good egg and that she would be great.

You got the feeling the job had been done and mission accomplished for BBC Scotland. It was odd and disconcerting and I don’t know what we do about the BBC, it is so blatant now.

Molly

Galamcennalath/legerwood

I didn’t realise that.

This is yet another reason BBC Scotland hacks me off by treating us like children.

Once more an external well financed lobby/ group attempting to distort what happens in Holyrood. The very least our media should do is inform us .

We are connected to the rest of the World , even if Pacific Quay isn’t.

HandandShrimp

Aye.so where were th 700,000 votes secreted to.700,000 votes is quite a pile The Catslonian authorities were organising it. Whereā€™s the photo of the pile. Or the boxes secreted off. Someone must have taken a photo.

link to google.co.uk:

Ken

No idea why the hatred towards the Catalan people but it is getting old – give it a rest, you are persuading no one.

Phil

The Hamish pin came in the week – IT IS GEORGEOUS!

Much admired.

galamcennalath

Breeks says:

The big question is whether we can accelerate this mini ā€œScottish Enlightenmentā€ in time to save ourselves from Brexit and prevent it happening to Scotland. We seem slow to the task however …

The waiting is painful!

The way I rationalise it is, political opinion can shift very quickly when the right (or wrong) circumstances arise.

We followers of politics watch and think about every turn and twist. Fortunately I don’t lose sleep over it, but I confess to spending just too much time watching the drip drip. Most folks only begin to think about it in detail when confronted with something big.

IMO Brexit is going to turn into a clear and present danger to Scotland and it’s going to be difficult to hide the truth. IndyRef2 where Indy is presented as our salvation will be the best opportunity we get, perhaps ever.

I’m champing at the bit! All Brexit outcomes will be bad, Nicola only needs to the push the button and I for one will be out there working to win. Me and thousands of others. The Yoons and the BBC don’t stand a chance. Face to face beats face to screen. I am optimistic and very impatient!

Robert Peffers

@Cactus says: 22 October, 2017 at 12:34 am:

” … Aye ahm HOME fellow IBro ~
Has anybuddy seen the other side of this boardā€¦They ainā€™t free.

I’ve a wee bit news for you, Cactus.

None of it is free in Scotland either. It is paid for by the Scottish taxpayer.

It is, though, free at the point of delivery and thus is a much more progressive form of paying for these things.

In effect those most able to pay do pay more of the costs with tax money. However, (as we are still ruled by Westminster), the least able to pay still pay because Westminster’s tax system is now mainly indirect taxation, the main one of which is VAT. Which even the poorest of the poor are forced to pay.

Thing is that by being free at point of delivery there is no need to have vast civil servant departments involved in a system of means testing nor another vast department of civil servants to police the system for fraudulent claimants as they have in the kingdom of England systems.

It was properly costed and found to work out cheaper to provide it free at point of delivery than to means test and police for fraud. That means the saved costs can be used for other things.

Same goes for free bridge tolls. The previous toll system hardly paid for the costs of running tolls and paying the profits of the private companies who ran the system. Free tolls also encourage trade in the areas served by the bridges and also served by the island ferry services. Private enterprise running such services are run for profit and thus the user pays for their use.

Not to mention the idiotic claims that England subsidises Scotland is so easy to prove as sheer lies. Not only is the reason that Scotland, Northern Ireland & Wales get different per capita funding because that funding is based upon the different levels of devolved functions from UK ministries that each UK country gets and thus the funds to run them must also differ but as ONLY England is funded directly as the UK there is no actual figures of the English per capita funding.

I do not care who makes such idiotic claims, BBC, MSM, politicians or England/UK nationalists, I can shoot down their lies as those of idiots in seconds with the all too obvious truth.

galamcennalath

Glamaig says:

… from what I understand the EU doesnt want another Swiss-style arrangement because it was hideously complicated to negotiate …

Yup. Sounds like the kind of fantasy solution the less-hard-right Tories would pursue.

Looks like the EU are going away into a wee huddle to formulate (in the UK’s absence) the kind of trade arrangement they would accept.

All along I’ve said there will be one of three outcomes – abandon Brexit, walk way with no deal, or take what the EU offer with only scope to negotiate minor tweaks at the edges.

Nothing has yet changed my mind.

call me dave

Jings!

Our friendly constant companion, like carrot loving ‘Harvey’, rabbits on… insisting we should spend more than our pocket money allocation on budget day for nice things but wants the SG to somehow pick up the bill.

I’m not against a balanced diet with lots of greens but FGS Derek Mackay can’t pull too many more rabbits from a magic top hat. šŸ™

Capella

@ heedtracker – I don’t believe English people are naturally more xenophobic than anyone else. They have to be taught to hate. That’s the job of schools, churches and the MSM. Divide and rule.

The effect is weaker now in Scotland because the media are almost all English, with some American thrown in. We notice the endless stream of propaganda coming from the metropolis because it’s nearly all in a foreign accent.

But English people don’t have that distance. Some of them swallow it whole.

I don’t know what they are all watching every night as I don’t have a TV. But Great British Something and Let’s All Laugh at Some Cultural Stereotype or The News Where We Are is always available.

Oh for a Scottish Broadcasting Service that could serve the people who pay for it. But there is no chance of Westminster relinquishing control of telecomms.

Still have the Internet though – for now.

Les Wilson

Just listening to P Harvey on sunday politics, he really is a jumped up wee squirt, the sooner the SNP get back to a majority the better.
Being held to blackmail by the greens makes me sooo angry.
No wonder Brewer was smirking all over his face.

HandandShrimp

Listened to Bill Whiteford’s review of the papers with a couple of guest reviewers this morning. The most notable thing was that I don’t think the Labour Party got a single mention.

Changed days.

Glamaig

Im just reading the update of Alyn Smith’s book Scotland in Europe, it’s worth ploughing through it as its full of great ammunition to counter the tidal wave of bullshit out there.

Available to download here:

link to drive.google.com

Ken500

They don’t need the greens to get the budget through. They negotiate with the others as well. Labour never agreed for spite. Why people get taken in by the greens is a mystery. They took votes from the SNP using myths. Losing the SNP their majority. Most of their policies are unpopular nonsense. An inpopular limited interest pressure group.

They want to borrow and spend like there is no tomorrow on grotesque projects of little value. Then demand that essential services aren’t cut. Yet they have wasted all the money in cohoots with unionists. On monstrosities that no one wants. OAP’s from other places can’t use their off peak travel passes on the Trams. Running empty and underscribed. More buses have to run. The business case was lied about. It was pushed through illegally. A total muck up of corruption. Now unfolding.

Ken500

People in England/Wales have to blame the EU for their predicament. Or they would have to blame themselves for voting for Tory/unionists Parties. It is displacement responsibility. A squirrel for diversion. Blame the EU instead of the Tories for whom they voted. If they admit the truth it makes them look like fools. Naive and stupid. So to save face they blame the EU and vote right wing UKIP. The Tories rose to the bait. To hold an EU Ref to stop support going to UKIP. A major misjudgement. They will regret. Losing ground.

CameronB Brodie

Capella
“I donā€™t believe English people are naturally more xenophobic than anyone else. They have to be taught to hate. Thatā€™s the job of schools, churches and the MSM. Divide and rule.”

I’ve got to agree with you there, as prejudice is rooted in the traditions of cultural institutions and practices.

Culture, Prejudice, Racism, and Discrimination

Summary and Keywords

Prejudice is a broad social phenomenon and area of research, complicated by the fact that intolerance exists in internal cognitions but is manifest in symbol usage (verbal, nonverbal, mediated), law and policy, and social and organizational practice. It is based on group identification (i.e., perceiving and treating a person or people in terms of outgroup membership); but that outgroup can range from the more commonly known outgroups based on race, sex/gender, nationality, or sexual orientation to more specific intolerances of others based on political party, fan status, or membership in some perceived group such as ā€œblondeā€ or ā€œathlete.ā€ This article begins with the link of culture to prejudice, noting specific culture-based prejudices of ethnocentrism and xenophobia. It then explores the levels at which prejudice might be manifest, finally arriving at a specific focus of prejudiceā€”racism; however, what applies to racism may also apply to other intolerances such as sexism, heterosexism, classism, or ageism.

The discussion and analysis of prejudice becomes complicated when we approach a specific topic like racism, though the tensions surrounding this phenomenon extend to other intolerances such as sexism or heterosexism. Complications include determining the influences that might lead to individual racism or an atmosphere of racism, but also include the very definition of what racism is: Is it an individual phenomenon, or does it refer to an intolerance that is supported by a dominant social structure? Because overt intolerance has become unpopular in many societies, researchers have explored how racism and sexism might be expressed in subtle terms; others investigate how racism intersects with other forms of oppression, including those based on sex/gender, sexual orientation, or colonialism; and still others consider how one might express intolerance ā€œbenevolently,ā€ with good intentions though still based on problematic racist or sexist ideologies.

link to communication.oxfordre.com

Postcolonial Contraventions: Cultural Readings of Race, Imperialism and Transnationalism
link to universitypressscholarship.com

The shameful ā€˜Go Homeā€™ campaign
link to irr.org.uk

galamcennalath

I see Fox is trying to play silly bu99ers in the hard right press by saying the divorce bill will be tied into the trade agreement and can’t be settled now.

That is utter bullshit, he knows it, and he’s assuming gullible ordinary Leave voters won’t see it. And the EU will have none of it!

IMO all part of the plan to walk away and blame the EU for intransigence. Though, it’s never quite clear if the Tory faction pushing for this is in the ascendancy or not! Certainly the hard right media are on the job.

Take Norway, closest outsider to the EU. It DOES NOT contribute to the EU central budget.

About half of Norway’s EU costs are direct subsidies paid to the 15th poorest EU countries. Norway has opted into many EU initiatives including scientific research. And finally it makes a contribution to EU admin costs. For this, and agreeing to comply with most EU standards, it gets single market access.

The UK divorce settlement is for shortfall in the EU central budget caused by leaving the EU.

Future payments, like Norway’s, will be completely different.

Will our inquiring investigative media highlight this. Nope. The gullible will be allowed their gullibility.

heedtracker

Half of England is xenophobic, or they would not have voted Leave.

Its that simple or complicated.

There’s a terrific American satirist who puts a lot of this mindset down to the 50’s, or really “50’s man.” Old people who came into the world and of age in the fifties, like Orange Hitler,

link to youtube.com

Not for nothing did lots of English high tory wetfarts flock to Orange Hitler’s side, Teresa, Fuhrage, that sneaky shit’s sneaky shit Mike Gove and so on.

CameronB Brodie

heedtracker
Xenophobia is largely an acquired disposition, though individual biology does influence one’s susceptibility to institutional propaganda and prejudice. There is negligible genetic difference between ethnicity.

Nana

Not sure if someone has posted this already

Great meeting with @ScotGovFM and @JosephEStiglitz @scotgoveconomy at INET Conference.
link to twitter.com

Nobel Prize winning economist @JosephEStiglitz says an Independent Scotland in the EU would resolve the uncertainties of Brexit
video here
link to twitter.com

yesindyref2

@galamcennalath
I’ve got to admit I don’t thing it’s reasonable to have the divorce bill settled before the rest of the divorce is agreed. Why should the UK have to agree to pay say Ā£60 billion, when it doesn’t know what it’s getting for it, if there’s going to be a transition period of 2 years for which it’s paying, or the terms of a trade agreement for which it’s also paying?

Kind of like someone leaving a golf club, but being forced to carry on paying for the upkeep of the greeens and the bar staff salaries.

The UK isn’t negotiating in good faith, but neither is the EU so far. What it is doing is burning up 7 months of the 2 years so far.

Robert Graham

A wee bit o/t – The BBC did one of these balls in a box things, for or against something,

This time they were asking, Is the beniifits system to kind or too cruel, I never listened to the Commentary but just watched the too kind balls mounting up ,
What a dumb lot we have in this country, the ones who have never been