The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

They said, he said

Posted on March 05, 2014 by

125 to “They said, he said”

  1. Papadox says:

    Just watched an old dear on NEWSNICHT saying how worried she is be cause the rates just keep going up and up?

  2. bookie from hell says:

    Stalin propaganda

  3. Thepnr says:

    Using propaganda in order to gain a No vote is bad enough. Using it to turn the English against the Scot is despicable.

  4. TJenny says:

    BT really are becoming ever more ridiculous, constantly tying themselves in knots of contradiction. Their constant negative spin on every aspect of indy, has us all hurtling through the rabbit hole.

    Still, in the ‘what character from fiction are you’ quiz, turns out I’m Alice in Wonderland, so I should be able to cope. 🙂

  5. Arbroath 1320 says:

    If anyone wants to read the whole TRUTH of Alex Salmond’s speech in London you can do so here. From what I saw of it he received a very good response from the audience.

  6. CameronB says:

    @ Rev Stu
    Are you saying it is genetic?

  7. john Walsh says:

    lets try them with the Elephant in the room. When Scotland votes yes what will they do with the Nukes? Davenport is usless 180000 Plymouth people could be killed as appossed to greater Glasgow full of Scots. Warheads could go to Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay Georgia State.That is why they won’t discuss. thats why Labour help the Tories.The nation is powerless against these two great cartels of politicians.Even if they got planning tomorrow it would be 2035 before a base was ready for Trident let alone a new system. Weapons of Mass Deception.

  8. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Stu sorry to go OT so early in a thread – Incoming

    Appears that the members of the Scottish Fiscal Working Group are ROTFLTFHO at Guideons No CU plans.

    According to this Article in the Guardian by none other than Severin Carrell.

    In a significant boost for the first minister’s position, Beveridge, an electronics industry executive with Sun Microsystems and former chief executive of the investment agency Scottish Enterprise, told MSPs in Holyrood that he firmly believed the UK government would drop its opposition if there was a yes vote in September’s referendum.

    “I don’t think any of us on the committee believe for a minute that the chancellor is serious,” he told the Scottish parliament’s economy, energy and tourism committee.

    “We warned in our report last year that, leading up to this, there was going to be a lot of political statements but, in our opinion, economics will trump the politics in this and good heads will prevail if there happens to be a ‘yes’ vote.”

    By the way just watch you don’t step on the Dog Turds sprinkled throughout this article by AliCar the ‘Save our Souls’ (SoS) for Scotland. You have been warned.

  9. HandandShrimp says:

    Just like Darling had his piece on the White Paper written before it was released Better Together talk about a speech they clearly never bothered listening to.

    They have so little to say that they have a stock of off he shelf lies to issue for every occasion. Never mind the quality look at the quantity and it all fits where it touches.

  10. Mary Bruce says:

    Can we crowd fund an episode of the Jeremy Kyle Show where we get Osborne and Darling taking the lie detector test? It would be very informative and would be sure to do very well in the ratings.

  11. The Man in the Jar says:

    I would not believe anything Better Together said even if they told me that they were lying.

  12. rab_the_doubter says:


    And here we go again:

    Reading the BBC report I got the feeling once again that one person’s personal opinion is being reported as company policy. Another thing that got me confused was this paragraph:

    “But, as a global business with feet planted firmly on both sides of the Channel, we also believe that the UK’s national interests are best served by a close relationship with Europe.

    The continent faces medium-term challenges – not least relating to its economic competitiveness. But we believe those challenges are best tackled – to the benefit of all – with the UK’s voice loudly expressed and loudly heard inside the EU.”

    I cant imagine he hasn’t heard about the Euro in/out referendum. Surely theres a much better chance of him getting what he wants after a Yes Vote.

  13. 1820 says:

    I’m down in Doncaster at the moment, and the people I’ve spoken to who have seen my yes badge have overwhelmingly said “Go for it and good luck”.

    Anglophobic hatred exists in the minds of the most devout bitter togetherists.

  14. X_Sticks says:

    Simon and Garfunkel – The Boxer – the chorus says it all better than Better Together

  15. Arbroath 1320 says:


    I had to think about that one X-Sticks, but I got it in the end DOH! 🙂

  16. X_Sticks says:

    @Arbroath 1320 – maybe they should adopt it as their anthem 😉

  17. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Now there’s a thought, there again as they never tell the TRUTH wouldn’t adopting this song as their anthem be telling the truth and as we know they can never tell the truth this would be a serious problem for them. 🙂

  18. X_Sticks says:


    I had to think about that one, and I think I got it in the end 😕

  19. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Methinks you’re having a go at me or something there. DOH! 🙂

  20. Doug Daniel says:

    Sort of off-topic this, but I heard tonight that Professor Ailsa McKay has died. I always enjoyed seeing her on Newsnicht or Scotland Tonight, she always had great ideas, and I just assumed that she would be one of the people helping make Scotland a better place after independence. She wasn’t even particularly old. I was quite proud of the fact that she followed me on Twitter and retweeted a few of my tweets – she even favourited one recently that was a little bit Cybernatty, so there was certainly absolutely no doubt about where her affiliations lay in respect to the referendum!

    Anyway, it’s sad to think that she now won’t be here to see that Yes result in September, or to see some of her ideas put into action afterwards (I’d be most surprised if she wasn’t a big influence on the SNP’s childcare policy, and she was a strong proponent of things like a citizen’s wage).

    When we mark that cross against “YES” in September, it’s not just us we’re doing it for, or for future generations – it’s for people like Ailsa and Stephen Maxwell who have helped propagate the kind of ideas that let people see we can do things better with the full powers of independence, but sadly won’t be here to make that cross themselves.

    We have to win this.

  21. bookie from hell says:

    if BT get the NO vote,they will praise the Scots,but we will never forget,how they trashed Scotland to get it.

  22. Arbroath 1320 says:

    So sorry to hear that sad news Doug, my thoughts go out to her family at this sad time.

    When we mark that cross against “YES” in September, it’s not just us we’re doing it for, or for future generations – it’s for people like Ailsa and Stephen Maxwell who have helped propagate the kind of ideas that let people see we can do things better with the full powers of independence, but sadly won’t be here to make that cross themselves.

    I don’t think I could have put it better there Doug.

  23. X_Sticks says:

    That is indeed sad news about Ailsa McKay.

    My cross will go in the box she would have wished for.

  24. Morag says:

    Do it for Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun. And Robert McIntyre and Margaret Ewing and Alan Macartney and Tom Maxwell and Rosemary Hall and Allison Hunter and Neil MacCormick and now Ailsa McKay. And I’m sure you all have your own names to add to the list.

    Most of all, do it for the children, and the children as yet unborn.

  25. bookie from hell says:

    very tragic

    Ailsa McKay

  26. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Doug Daniel –

    Well said DD.

    And let’s not forget H J Paton, author of The Claim of Scotland, who will surely be a well kent name in Scotland fifty years hence, thanks in no small part to this site.

  27. dadsarmy says:

    I’m getting a bit confused about which one of the recent events is actually the game-changer and turning point for YES.

    I’m coming to the conclusion it’s all of them 🙂

  28. Vincent McDee says:

    In Memoriam:

    Ailsa McKay, probably the best at Glasgow Caledonian University, the only feminist economist I know of.

    Going to the garden to swear.

  29. bunter says:

    Looks like YES are going to be on the back foot for a long time as it doesn’t look like our media are going to address what that other option on the ballot paper means.

    Now what is it again?

  30. The Grew says:

    An interesting article on how the BBC gets some of their funding.

  31. john king says:

    “Simon and Garfunkel – The Boxer – the chorus says it all better than Better Together”

    I didn’t need to listen to it,
    “All lies and jest,
    still a man hear what he wants to hear
    and disregards the rest hmmmm”
    nice one 😉

  32. john king says:

    Ye were singing my song their Xsticks
    am away to put my cheesecloth shirt and my bell bottoms on that always cheers me up 🙂
    oh and of course my Chelsea boots,
    the only thing that lets me down is if I grew my hair long a single strand hanging down my back doesn’t exactly do it,
    nor the fact that Im no longer as skinny as a whip.:(
    thanks for bumming me out Xsticks. 😉

  33. JLT says:

    There is no doubt about it now. How much worse this is going to get is truly debatable. The media (and especially the BBC) seem to be ‘shrieking’ lie, after lie, after lie.

    The amount of people who are actually saying that they no longer trust the media, or are no longer reading anything to do with the Referendum because they can’t trust it, has gone way up in my book.
    These folk are all ‘Yes’ voters now. And one good thing, the few folk who are still ‘No’ voters, have admitted that they KNOW that the media are lying. Some have said that they have ‘doubts’ now and are not happy with Better Together or the media. A few are coming around to a ‘Yes’ vote.

    The word is getting out folks. Point out the lies on a daily basis to the ‘No’ folk. Show them what DID take place, or what WAS actually said, and you can see the doubt in their eyes immediately. I was mocked about a year ago for everything I was telling them. Not anymore. Quietly, folk will take me aside and ask me what I make of this; that; or what I believe. I am now a source for their info.

    Even today, the Boss of Shell prefers for Scotland to remain in the UK. Whoopity-Doo! What the Boss of Shell does not say, is that if Scotland does stay remain, then Scotland should be rewarded for that loyalty, and that they should get Devo-Max. Does he say that? No.
    What the Boss of Shell wants, is for the Scots to accept what they have got at present; that this is as good as it gets, and therefore we should be happy and just shut up.
    The vast majority of Scots know this is just another Tory spokesman who is not telling the people of Scotland the truth.

    Keep at it folks. Keep converting people. Tell them the truth about the media. If you can convince people that the media are lying, then the media’s lies will be ignored, and the folk who become aware that they are being lied too, will move to the ‘Yes’ camp.

  34. john king says:

    “Most of all, do it for the children, and the children as yet unborn.”

    Thats all that needs to be said.

  35. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    O/T – Remember from yesterday, anybody that spells Pollok with a “c”, or anybody that spells “Bitter Together” with an “e”, needs to put a donation in Johann Lamont’s favourite swear box:-

  36. Macart says:

    Very well said Doug and Morag.

  37. The majority have had enough says:

    Why do they keep on hanging on?

    The people who think they own Scotland because they do. The landowners who own half of Scotland because land is tax evaded. The covert campaign by the land tax evaders who want to retain their wealthy while hypocritically milking the EU. The ‘high’? IQ tax evaders who milk the Public purse. The ‘who’s who’ of public school network, milking the system of £Millions if not £Billions. ie the Fund managers, the Tory bankers and the Westminster Politicans and their associates,’Make mine a castle’ milking the Public Purse. The Official Westminster policy is now to starve the most vulnerable, in a land of plenty, in the rest of the world as well.

    Flood, famine and fury.

    The high ‘IQ’s’ who have attempted to destroy the world by their greed, stupidity and lack of vision. The mathematical ‘genius’ who created the Pozzi scheme which took down the banking system, gaining £Billions from the system fo themselves while the mist vulnerable live in poverty and deprivation. In a world of plenty.

    In Scotland, the few who hold all the land are of little vision. The high ‘IQ’er’s, without any compassion or vision, who are so obsessed with division, but don’t even realise Land in Scotland would be more valuable and put to good use when Scotland votes YES.

    Spelling words is not a sign of ‘intelligence’ or is high ‘IQ’ always a sign of compassion or talent. Most discovery and invention was by those who could spell and were not conventionally academic, but on another spectrum.

    Why do they keep hanging on? Including the gutter Press owners and the BBC milking the public purse and European funds, with falling viewer/readership. Remunerated for failure, while the vulnerable starve, in world of plenty.

    It would appear some Uni’s are getting too much public monies to support the Tory bankers. Without majority public support. An abuse of public monies by the high ‘IQ’s?’ who have not thought it through properly. The monies could be put to better use.

  38. Illy says:

    The only people I can see AS rubbishing in his statement is Westminster.

    I think some people are falling for the “Westminster is everything” line a little too much.

  39. Puzzled? says:

    All the ‘foreigners’ telling people in Scotland what to do, and exploiting Scottish assets and resources

    Spaniard – Lloyds corrupt bankers

    Dutchman – Shell exploitative and waste

    US – corrupt MSM groups

    All corrupt governance.

  40. john king says:

    Pitched a few quid in Calgacus
    thanks for the heads up.

  41. The Penman says:

    My wife, who is by no means a raving Yes, watched Peston’s report on BBC News at 10. Even she saw the misinformation and spin – her first comment on the report was how they didn’t explain to the layman what any of it meant. My only reply was “and why do you think that is?”

  42. Croompenstein says:

    O/T disreporting Scotland, apparently Shell now saying they want Scotland to stay tethered to wasteminster.. oh the glee from the EBC

  43. Democracy means YES says:

    Westminster associates and tax evading, hypocritical Scottish landowners milking the public purse for £Billions while the most vulnerable starve, in a land of plenty. Vote YES to end the abuse, for a fairer, more equal and prosperous country.

    Sir Nicholas MacPherson.

  44. Tattie-bogle says:

    I like the idea Mary Bruce came up with we could have a DNA test on Jezza to see if they are genetically programmed to be making these kind of decisions

  45. GRAHAMHANSON says:

    I would not have known that Alec had been to London, looking at the BBC. In strange contrast to the recent safaris north.To say worrying is to put it mildly. When are you gooing to get a link to that New Statesman lecture Rev?

  46. G H Graham says:

    I think we are at the stage when any attempt by the Unionist side to use facts, logic & reason to make their case has been given up.

    The primary argument against independence was always Scotland’s alleged weak economic position but that has been proven to be completely false; higher GDP, lower net debt, lower budget deficit, lower unemployment, etc. compared to the rUK.

    David Cameron admitted that Scotland could easily survive as an independent nation – “I have no time for those who say there is no way Scotland could go it alone.” (

    And so did Alistair Darling – “The question is not whether Scotland can survive as a separate state. Of course it could.” (

    We could go on proving the ease with which Scotland could cope financially without the burden of being tethered to a near bankrupt British state. And the Unionist’s know it.

    But when you’ve run out of sound, rational logic, the preferred alternative favoured by dictators, despots, totalitarian regimes & aggressive neighbours is to bludgeon the people with ridiculous, fantastical propaganda & lies.

    This is just the beginning. I predict it is going to get a lot, lot worse.

    But hey, look on the bright side. Fictional authors & comedians are going to get drunk on the comical material coming out of Alistair Darling’s “Project Fear” for years to come.

  47. cearc says:

    Congratulations on the pic, Stu. Well snapped.

  48. heedtracker says:

    UKOK’s corrupt campaign cashing in on cringe, or another day another bettertogetherBBC disgrace from Pacific Quay with Naughty and Taylor. No sterling for you Carmicheal backed by same Whitehall civil service absolutely not allowed any political bias BUT its all fine that UKOK Westminster civil service says NO to currency union, so vote no. And that’s what corrupt UKOK state broadcasting is all about. This level of Whitehall civil service political corruption is just one more sign post to the end of the English empire in Scotland.

  49. Tattie-bogle says:

    remind you of anything or anyone

  50. GrahamB says:

    On GMS at 8, Shell boss says he would prefer Scotland to remain in the UK and the UK to remain in the EU but they only put the first part in the headlines, more dishonesty from EBC.

  51. Challenge convention not conforming to the rules says:

    The IQ Genius on another spectrum, responsible for discovery and invention, who cannot conventionally spell or write ‘properly’. The ignorant and arrogant, conform – grammar Police

    Language evolves. Everyone is entitled to their say.

    Chaucer, Shakespeare etc.

  52. heedtracker says: Scotland’s First Minster gives major speech in London this week, BBC in Scotland don’t even report it. Cringe level 110% in Pacific Quay and rising.

  53. Clootie says:

    BP and Shell are international companies and a comment by individuals regardless of their position is hardly news. These companies represent the shareholders who seek maximum profit.

    They will operate in any country under any regime. The very fact that they tilt in favour of any particular outcome of the referendum can only be explained by self interest.

    BP’s record in the Middle East during the middle of the last century is that of an aggressive exploiter. They involved themselves in politics purely for company advantage. Macondo in the Gulf of Mexico demonstrates how profit comes first. If you review BP’s operations in Alaska regarding pipeline failures it is obviously not a benign organisation.

    The big boys have no interest in Scotland apart from profit.
    The systems depends on the apathy of the people – I hope they get a shock shortly. I also hope they are reminded of their comments when bidding for a new license round in the future.

  54. callum says:

    a small number of days after the cabinet visited Aberdeen. A cynical person would think that the oil companies had been offered a tax reduction deal in exchange for making a statement to match Cameron’s policy. Just saying.

  55. bookie from hell says:


    michael white

    calls independence a panacea

    to be fair calls Salmond a class act

  56. gavin lessells says:


    Further orders of 10000 at £66 can be taken until next tuesday

    40000 were ordered yesterday.

    Contact if interested

  57. SquareHaggis says:

    Call K playing the racist card this morning.

  58. HandandShrimp says:

    Shell is hardly a surprise. Whose HQ were the Westminster Cabinet holed up in? Hiding like rats from the public at large they were clearly pressing the flesh with Shell.

    Does Big Business and International Corporations and banks many mired in tax fraud, corruption, rate fixing etc., really hold much sway with the electorate? I think there is perhaps mileage in pairing Better Together with that image. Two peas in a pod. Who do you want to vote for? The corrupt fat cat or the ordinary man in the street?

  59. Tattie-bogle says:

    Not good for your health listening to her you would be safer driving and sending a text message and playing candy crush all at the same than listening to that shite.

  60. SquareHaggis says:

    My preferred option would be to throw myself out the 13th floor window, unfortunately the guys out workin on the gantry are listening to Call K on their radio, what if I jumped and didnae go splat? I’d be lyin there unable to turn it aff, imagine dyin wi that shite drummin in yer lug!

    Thanks for the advice tho Tattie-bogle, now away for a long walk wi the dug.

  61. caz-m says:

    Just heard that BBC three is to be shut down, this is part of £100 million savings to be made by 2016.

    So if we vote NO we lose “Family Guy” and if we vote YES then a new Scottish Broadcasting Corporation would buy back all these favourite programmes back.

    And if the BBC is struggling now, then what will happen to their budget when they will have a massive £300 million hole put in it when the Scots vote for Independence.

    Also on the subject of BBC Scotland’s budget, why was their no coverage of the Scotland game last night.

    So vote YES (save Family Guy) and bring this bias, anti-Scottish organisation to it’s knees.

  62. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    “Lieutenant General Sir Norman Arthur complains to the Scottish Government about Roseanna Cunningham after she helps publicise his home and email addresses and telephone number.”

    That took them a wee while. Johnson’s latest on the Telegraph.

  63. Mosstrooper says:

    For an excellent graphic description of the debunking of the bank bail-out myth go to HUFF Post – Politics UK for an article by Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp..”Destroying Darling’s Bank Bail-out Myth”

    In graphics it makes a case no one can dispute. I hope that someone with greater computer skills than me can put a direct link in

  64. Helena Brown says:

    My vote is going in the yes box for me and for my old friend Miss Jess Merson, she had one wish and that was to see an Independent Scotland. So sorry for the loss of Ailsa McKay, she will be sorely missed.
    On the other hand, watching RT this morning and regardless of who is right in Ukraine, the lady did a good job of debunking the West this morning. My Husband said wouldn’t it be nice if someone would do the same for the Yes campaign here.

  65. BigSteveChisholm says:

    ‘Front page’ of Guardian website right now.

    Headline – Sterling threat no bluff, Scots told

    Click on the link. Headline to same article reads

    Ban on independent Scotland sharing sterling ‘not serious, Holyrood told’

    Whit? How am I meant to know what to think?

  66. heedtracker says:


    michael white

    calls independence a panacea

    to be fair calls Salmond a class act, the rascal.

    Can these guys find any more insults for Scots down there though? I think i prefer their foreign correspondent Severin Carrell’s sneery condescension/lies to being called a rascal. To be fair, same Guardian annihilated the Gordon Brown supremacy for the Libdems at the last GE, which was a sight to behold.

    “Aren’t those YES scotch rascal’s for wanting an actual democracy in Scotland dear progressive liberal Guardian readership?”

  67. SquareHaggis says:

    Sellotape now applied to gub. Just need to find the pliers so I can chap aff my fingers tae stop me wri.t..i…n…….

    Now, long walk, short pier.

  68. Tracey Guy says:

    I feel like witholding my license fee. The bias being in favour of better together campaign. Im going to complain to bbc. If I don’t get satisfaction I will take it further.

  69. EphemeralDeception says:



    Or just go to Kemps Business for Scotland website directly where all the charts are from.

  70. Tracey Guy says:

    Shell need to have a sit down with as and the rest of the executive to discuss future plans for our north sea before they make these sweeping public statments. Its our oil. We don’t need to make them suffer for robbing our nation of its precious resorce for the last 40 years. Scaremongering WONT work.

  71. MajorBloodnok says:

    Shell are actively involved in shale gas exploration in Ukraine and will work with whoever is in power. Clearly the Shell boss’s comments yesterday was a put up job following on from the UK cabinet’s trip to Aberdeen and no doubt they have been given certain favourable ‘assurances’ on the side should the referendum go their way. I have no doubt that his remarks about staying in the EU (unreported in Scotland) were intended to undermine UKIP – two birds with one stone.

    The connection between the no campaign and the cynical interests of big business should be emphasised, particularly in Scotland’s more disadvantaged areas.

  72. Mosstrooper says:

    Thanks E.D
    I feel more people should be aware of these simple explanatory diagrams

  73. bookie from hell says:


    “Earlier this week the 83-year-old was targeted by Cybernats, a notorious wing of the SNP that specialises in online abuse of Unionists, after his home and email addresses and phone number were published on a social networking website.”

  74. yerkitbreeks says:

    Would be great to see the New Statesman Q & A session with the FM

  75. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Xsticks,Michael,Tattie-bogle. Jist goes tae shows yous whit

    makes fur A Pure Deed Brilliant Site

    Wings Over Scotland truly IS, an the people on her URNAE to

    shabby either( jist a wee bitty rough aroon the corners )

    anybody need a sheet of Wet n Dry sandpaper, real smooth finish.

    REV,. Real smooth W O S, RADIO required, whits the chance,s.

  76. MajorBloodnok says:

    Quite a balanced article on the BBC website regarding Shell:

    I liked this paragraph near the end (quoting from the SG):

    “As Ed Daniels, chairman of Shell UK has acknowledged, the independence debate is a matter for the Scottish people. A recent Oil and Gas People poll showed that in fact, 70% of oil workers planned to vote for independence.”

    Also, even Douglas “we’re all doomed!” Fraser reckons this is more about setting out the oil industry’s position on EU membership and prior to the European Elections.

    I think even the BBC is starting to notice that Project Fear is a double edged sword and in many cases the rUK is the more vulnerable target.

  77. Vronsky says:

    Very shocked and saddened to hear about Ailsa McKay. She was a speaker at the last RIC conference, memorably commenting that what Gideon described as ‘green shoots of recovery’ were weeds.

  78. heedtracker says:

    That general making very serious accusations with no proof at all, shows how basic principles like honesty and plain old common decency just do not apply to teamGB ruling class. Another really terrible day for UK journalists, if they actually call themselves journalists.

  79. bunter says:


    Your chance to have your question ”selected” by a conduit of project fear and if it passes that test then put forward ever so nicely by an employee of project fear.

    Best we can hope for is if some of our lot are in the audience to heckle the two of them.

  80. Capella says:

    Let’s also put an X in the YES box on behalf of Ken Saro Wiwa, executed after campaigning on behalf of the Ogoni people whose lands were desecrated by that same Shell Oil company operating in the Niger Delta. Shell is showing the Scottish people the same courtesy and consideration as they showed the Ogoni. None whatsoever.

  81. tartanfever says:

    Just like to endorse Ephemeral Deception’s post above with the link to Gordon from Business for Scotland’s article regarding the bank bailouts.

    It’s important not only because it spells out the reality of who really bailed out our banks, but also because it highlights that the UK press has deliberately completely ignored this issue.

    So when we get the likes of Peston of the BBC coming out with his scare stores like yesterday, this is the perfect article with which to counter his claims.

    I’d urge everyone to bookmark this article for future reference.

  82. Barontorc says:

    @Mosstrooper 9.30am – thanks for this link.

    Great stuff from Gordon again and another very telling piece of information – not coming from HM Treasury, we note!

    What we don’t perhaps realise is that the ‘bail-out’ for UK banks – or any bank for that matter, is not a donation, but a LOAN that has to be repaid, as the describing name suggests – ‘Lender Of Last Resort’ (LOLR).

    What we, as members of the public also don’t know, is what rates of interest these loans been given at and what is the payback time? After all it’s only in the past few years -from recent memory – that the WW2 repayment was completed from GB to the USA.

    I also struggle to understand what makes a LOLR? Is it a friendly country which will lend a down-at-heel country the funds to keep going when all else have turned their backs? Also is such a loan given at a very special rate that’s not available elsewhere, but could be taken from rapacious rip-off others?

    Finally, just why should an independent Scotland have to rely on rUK as its LOLR anyway, if it was stooopid enough to get into trouble – why not Norway, Qatar, or the EU, etc.?

    As Gordon says it’s a myth – more than time it was explained and roundly debunked.

  83. ronnie anderson says:

    @TracyGuy, Bbbc complaints,a waste of time,don’t pay the License

    Fee, Im on my 5th letter, I didn’t hear then at my front door,

    Tues nite 18.53 ( says so on their love letter )they,ll get a

    suprize the next time they appear at my door ave goat a bottle

    of ( Zoflora, ) Flowers of the Forest, the,ll leave with

    much Smelliness.

  84. heedtracker says:

    Your chance to have your question ”selected” by a conduit of project fear and if it passes that test then put forward ever so nicely by an employee of project fear.

    Dear the Flipper,

    Your Labour in Scotland party want to Scotland to vote NO, keep nuke missiles in Scotland and spend £100 billion on new WMD’s. At what point would say future Labour PM Milliband, launch Trident nuke missiles at say Russia right now and what would be the response from Putin do you think?

  85. Muscleguy says:

    @John Walsh
    I think you are confusing the warheads and the missiles. The UK owns the missiles, the US owns the missiles, they come from a common pool apparently.

    There are these concrete bunkers at Coulport, you can see them on Google Earth, where they store spare WMD warheads. It seems they have some storage capacity at Aldermaston as well. So really all they have to do is build more bunkers at Aldermaston. I reckon two years should be easily sufficient for that*. They can in the meantime remove as many of the warheads as will fit into the bunkers at Coulport or Aldermaston and take the missiles back to Uncle Sam.

    *They will have 3.5 years since if they are sensible they will start on Sept 19.

    BTW they cannot base the subs overseas because the separated warheads can’t be transported by sea under some international rule so they can’t be returned the Aldermaston for maintenance. This also rules out Northern Ireland, the Scillies, Le Havre and anywhere else.

  86. MajorBloodnok says:


    But where would they base the submarines that carry Trident? Surely not Aldermaston as well, it’s too far inland…

  87. Tried to watch A.S speech but B.B.C cut it off halfway through. Disgraceful.

  88. GrahamB says:

    Still to see Scotland’s goal last night (or any play from the game) on the BBC. Even the internet coverage was pathetic – reduced to one comment on the main sports site in the first 20 minutes before it popped up as normal on the Scottish site. There the commentary had been going since at least half an hour before kick off but there was no link to it until well into the game.
    Is it a deliberate ploy of selling Scotland short to get their own back for all the increasing criticism aimed at them and the realisation that they will probably only find employment holding a torch on Hadrian’s Wall after independence?

  89. caz-m says:

    That big tough British army general running to English media because his address was made public. But wasn’t his address available to the public for years.

    That Eton education seems to have turned him into a big lump of shit.

    Reminded me of Carmicheal pleading with Rona on STV to tell that big bad Nicola to stop shoutin at him.

  90. Jim T says:

    There have a been a few folk, across several threads, asking about having a pro-indy radio station. I’ve been plodding around the OfCom website and the timescales will be too long, as well as the cost of licencing being pretty prohibitive.

    I would suggest local Yes groups contact their Community Radio Stations and see if they can get a regular spot in their schedules. That could be used to dispel the myths and rumours BT are generating.

    As a starter, here’s a map of the UK’s community stations:

    Hope it helps a few folk get the message across.

  91. ronnie anderson says:

    REV, there was a few good ideas on getting the message out

    ( Mobile ) Battle Bus. Could I through another idea into the mix

    one I have experience of. I once converted a old

    (Removal Van 7.5 ton ) into a Mobile Market Stall at very little

    cost, ( panel interior fit out desks ect re paint ). We have

    plenty of Talent in WoS champin at the bit, if this idea float,s

    You know how to contact me for further information.

    & I have a Big Warehouse yard that I could borrow do to the

    conversion by Wingers.

  92. HandandShrimp says:

    This was quite an interesting article in the Institute of Economic Affairs magazine. It deals with currency, LOLR and Central banks.

    Neither pro or anti independence it is one of those rare beasts these days that simply talks about the issues. The IEA is very free market and some there have mixed views about nationalised central banks so worth bearing that in mind whilst reading the article.

  93. heedtracker says:

    Dear The Flipper,

    During your time as Labour MP and Chancellor of the Exchequer, you claimed MP expenses/flipped on four properties as your second home, stamp duty, taxes, furniture etc. You also rented out the properties while you claimed expenses for living in them, although not actually living in them and you also claimed the cost of a tax evasion account to help out with these claims.

    So question is Mr Naughty, how come the Flipper’s not done time at Her Majesty’s Pleasure like some of his other esteemed Labour in Scotland colleagues?

  94. jingly jangly says:

    X-Sticks, next time you see Rab C ask him about Aberdeen folk club turning down Paul Simon when he asked to perform at a weekly club session…

  95. handclapping says:

    BP’s troubles in N America stem from its takeover of Sohio.
    RBS troubles stemmed from their takeover of NatWest.

    Bigger is not necessarily better. Ask the dinosaurs.

  96. Les Wilson says:

    Here is a link to the Principles of propaganda as laid out by Joseph Goebbels. If you scroll down you will see all of then well laid out, read them, you will recognise most of them as being employed by Westminster. It makes what they are doing a tad clearer.

  97. GrahamB says:

    I was going to submit a question to the Herald for Numptie to ask Flipper but I have no desire to register with the Herald so if anyone else is registered maybe they could submit this on my/our behalf.

    Mr Darling
    Since Johann Lamont recently stated on TV that she prefers pursuing multilateral nuclear disarmament rather than ‘political posturing’ of removing Trident from our shores, can you tell us when the Labour Party last debated nuclear weapons at Conference (fringe meetings won’t count) and when did any form of disarmament commitment appear in a Labour Party manifesto?

  98. Mary Bruce says:

    @JimT, there’s a yes radio station called Yesonair, not sure if it is official yes campaign or not,

    They have a Facebook page too.

  99. caz-m says:

    “The great £300 million Swindle”

    BBC News 24 screens the goal from the England game last night with follow up interview from their manager, then show you a goal from Gareth Bale of Wales, then in a two second slot they told you of a 1-0 win to Scotland over Poland.

    The power is with the people of Scotland to stop this assault on our intelligence.

    Vote YES.

  100. Les Wilson says:

    Thinking about my Goebbels post, it would be a very good thing to post everywhere, Facebook, twitter, all media you can post it on, please do so. I am not on any of these, or I would be doing it. I will post on blogs, websites where I can, but I really do think it needs to get out there, everywhere, to help shame them all.

  101. Big Jock says:

    Off subject slightly. The tree at Calley Uni has now grown some new leaves and shed some others (union flag)…

  102. bookie from hell says:

    well spotted big jock

  103. faolie says:

    Just read the speech (see Rev, we do click your links). Wish I’d been there. What an inspiring speech it was, especially the references to the “Borderlands Initiative”, where

    ..the prospect of further autonomy for Scotland is also stimulating a new interest in the North East, Cumbria and Scotland to work more collaboratively together, enabling the people of the North of England to prosper by working with an independent, prosperous Scotland.

    I like that!

  104. Jim T says:

    @Mary Bruce 11:26am

    There are quite a few internet “radio” stations but the issue is to try and get to people as they are in their cars or wandering about the house doing “housey” things 🙂

    I can provide details of the contacts for all of the stations shown on that PDF in my 10:55am post above as well as indicative coverage maps if anyone is interested.

    One of my sons has already figured out that he should be talking to a Glasgow based one for another project of his! The spin-off effect LOL.

    One of the main requirements of the OfCom “Community Radio Station” licence is that they should interact with the community and that necessarily needs input from the community and other interest groups there. Ideal opportunity and resource.

  105. Mary Bruce says:

    Do our esteemed broadcasters really think that the people of Scotland were, last night, sat in front of our tellys going, “shame the Scotland match isn’t on, lets support the England team instead.” Is that the big plan?

    Can’t wait till the World Cup comes along… What do we think we can look forward to? The bbc, of course, will fully expect us to cheer on England. They will be hurt and confused if we don’t. The rest of the MSM will no doubt launch a campaign to demonise any of us who don’t support them. It will be worse than ever. I wonder what the more frothing Scots unionists will do? Will we have the England flag flying on the flagpoles at Stirling Council?

  106. Mary Bruce says:

    Yes, I see what you mean, Jim T. Didn’t realise the Internet stations wouldn’t be available in the car or without digital radio. That’s a pity.

  107. gerry parker says:

    I’d be glad to help out with the van.
    No papers delivered yet – too wet.
    Ye’ve got to know when to hold’em, and know when to fold ’em.


  108. gerry parker says:

    @Mary Bruce.
    Of course we’ll be expected to cheer on England, do you not remember 1966?


    This Website seems to be running much better now.

  109. mogabee says:

    Jim T

    I see on the community radio map that Kintyre radio based in Campbeltown is missing, there may be others.

    Our local yes group have used the radio before.

  110. ronnie anderson says:

    @gerry parker 12.14, whit did ah tell you yesterday when you

    payed me a very welcome visit, A HEID BAND UMBRELLA , hivin

    met me yesterday you ken am a manny thit dizzna take prisoners,

    am looking oot ma winnda the noo its whits cawed smaw rain, as a x

    posty, you should know, Its no really rainin wet stuff LOL.

    Afternoon Gerry.

  111. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    O/T but a propos the reincarnation of the Commonwealth Tree at GCU I thought I would see what the GCU actually did.

    I went into their Research link and into the Life Sciences project about prolonging active life for old dodders like myself.

    Bingo 5 researchers so I wanted to see the projects. The first three links did not exist and the other two people had retired so, I guess they either discovered the elixir of life and buggered off to enjoy or just buggered off.

    Looks like an academic fail here?

  112. gerry parker says:

    Aye, just a smir o’ rain Ronnie, and ye don’t stay wet forever, I’m off oot.

  113. ronnie anderson says:

    @ gery parker1.04 good on you gerry, rain never stopped the


  114. Jim T says:

    @mogabee 12:51pm

    That station (Kintyre) looks like it’s part of Argyll FM’s portfolio and not a stand-alone community radio. If it carries adverts or other commercial sponsorship it won’t be a community one.

    The list of currently licenced community stations is here:

  115. liz says:

    Re the BBC failing to show the Scotland goal and the apparent changing of the weather map to make Scotland look smaller – again – could this be conditioning the rUK into gradually seeing Scotland disappear?

    This would be less of a shock to them when it actually – hopefully – does happen.

    Does this also suggest the polls are different ie more positive than we have seen?

  116. A.W. says:

    Just an update on the B.B.C. I have complained on their “Web Form”procedure since 28th January regarding the Bias reporting highlighted in the U.W.S Report. This is their latest reply:-

    “We remain firmly of the view that the report contains a significant number of factual inaccuracies,offers very little if any objective assessment of our news output and draws a series of conclusions that are unsupported by such evidence as is presented in the report. We do not, as you suggest,offer support for either side of the debate-that is not our role. It is,rather, to provide platforms for a range of views and perspectives to be aired. With regard to your enquiry about the Financial Times article, we would note that we do not, as a matter of course, report or carry everything that other media outletsreport or carry.”

    If you remain dissatisfied you may request a review by writing to the B.B.C Trust within 20 working days of receiving this reply, explaining why you believe this decision is inconsistent with the B.B.C’S Complaints procedures.

    There we have it folks what an organisation!! Any complaints are put in a queue to be answered in their own time. I really wonder what purpose does the B.B.C serve in this “Debate” given that they do not waver from the objective as the BRITISH State Broadcaster.

  117. I’m going to stop coming here, you guys are all part of that nasty Alex Salmond’s “cybernat” gang. it was in the Torygraph so it must be true ( think they guy buying the P&J in ASDA bridge of Don thought I’d lost it when I started laughing and pointing at the paper )…… Sorry pensioner mannie

  118. TJenny says:

    Big Jock – what’s the flag two up from the Saltire? Looks like a wee red lion rampant on yellow background.

  119. Croompenstein says:

    @TJenny – It’s Sri Lanka

  120. Taranaich says:

    Bigger is not necessarily better. Ask the dinosaurs.

    Hey, they were doing pretty well until a gigantic rock came from the stars and broke the planet. 😛

  121. Muscleguy says:

    @Major Bloodnok
    Without the missiles or warheads (or nuclear torpedoes) the subs are useless so will be retired dismantled. My guess would be Barrow in Furness. But without the armaments they can sit in Devonport quite safely too.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top