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Wings Over Scotland

The Vicar Of Braying

Posted on May 17, 2019 by

The Herald has a story this morning about the Secretary of State for Scotland, a man who readers may recall promising that Scotland would benefit financially from the UK government’s £1.5bn bung to the DUP (which then didn’t happen), and threatening to resign over Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement (which he didn’t do, then denied ever saying), and promising to do everything he could to oppose a no-deal Brexit but then abstaining on a vote to rule it out (and refusing to resign despite being a government minister who had refused a government whip).

Older readers may also remember Mundell as someone who voted against the repeal of the homophobic “Section 28” legislation in the Scottish Parliament despite being a closeted gay man at the time, and who voted to effectively ban IVF treatment for gay couples but now works for a lesbian mother.

But demonising Boris Johnson? Who would ever do such a monstrous thing?

Oh. Still, credit is due to Mundell for taking the principled position that if Johnson were to become leader he would refuse to serve in his cabinet.

As today’s story confirms oh wait.

We were rather put in mind of a song.

“In good King Charles’ golden time, when loyalty no harm meant,
A zealous high churchman was I, and so I gained preferment.
To teach my flock, I never missed: Kings are by God appointed
And damned are those who dare resist or touch the Lord’s anointed!

And this be law, that I’ll maintain until my dying day, sir
That whatsoever king may reign, Still I’ll be the Vicar of Bray, sir.

When royal James possessed the crown, and popery came in fashion,
The penal laws I hooted down, and read the Declaration.
The Church of Rome, I found, did fit full well my constitution
And I had been a Jesuit, but for the Revolution.

When William was our King declared, to ease the nation’s grievance,
With this new wind about I steered, and swore to him allegiance.
Old principles I did revoke; set conscience at a distance,
Passive obedience was a joke, a jest was non-resistance.

When Royal Anne became our queen, the Church of England’s glory,
Another face of things was seen, and I became a Tory.
Occasional conformists base; I blamed their moderation;
And thought the Church in danger was from such prevarication.

When George in pudding time came o’er, and moderate men looked big, sir
My principles I changed once more, and I became a Whig, sir.
And thus preferment I procured from our new Faith’s Defender,
And almost every day abjured the Pope and the Pretender.

The illustrious House of Hanover and Protestant succession
To these I do allegiance swear – while they can hold possession.
For in my faith and loyalty I never more will falter,
And George my lawful king shall be – until the times do alter.”

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120 to “The Vicar Of Braying”

  1. Sharny Dubs

    I have principles, if you don’t like them I do have others!

  2. bobajock

    I have a sack full of sh .. ah no, they are principled stances that I can take.

    A coat of many shades of brown.

  3. Bob Mack

    This guy would have praised Heinrich Himmler if it meant keeping his job.

    How on earth does this gormless ,obsequious, little toad remain as Sec of State for Scotland?

    I suppose the answer is simplicity itself. If he was not in his job who on earth would want the company of this guy?

    To maintain that position there is no rock he would not creep under.

  4. Proud Cybernat

    This Boris Johnson:

    “The Scotch – A poem about Scotland by Boris Johnson”

  5. Donald anderson

    Oh what a numpty
    There’s never been one as big as this before …

  6. Brian Powell

    You would think the Herald would check background history, oh wait, it’s the Herald.

  7. A C Bruce

    The Secretary of State against Scotland.

    Expensive, embarrassing, useless and an insult to Scotland.

    What a relief it will be when that post is permanently abolished; which should have happened when the Scottish Parliament reconvened.

  8. wee jock poo-pong mcplop

    I thought anyone posting song lyrics would be KILLED WITH HAMMERS..?

  9. Iain

    In public life in Scotland, there can be nobody with such a reputation for self-serving duplicity.
    He’s going to wind up as Lord Mundell, isn’t he? Or at least a knighthood. But even in the social circles he aspires to won’t be accorded respect.

  10. Shug

    You would think their political editor would pick up on this
    But oh no it is the Herald!!
    Perhaps he wants to progress to BBC question time another bastion of free speach (by selective invitation only)
    Herald if you want to survive you have to become a newspaper not a fanzine of westminster

  11. bookie from hell

    mundell 2014

    So we’ve got a clear plan on Europe: to make it work better for Britain 

  12. Scotspatriot

    What did the good people of the Scottish Borders do to deserve this little Twonk ?

  13. Bobp

    Does this cretin even know what day of the week it is?

  14. Bobp

    Scotspatriot, they voted for him.

  15. Bobp

    Sad to say.

  16. The Tree of Liberty

    Wee Toadeater.

  17. desimond

    Mundell is the ultimate Useful Idiot.

    A lordship and RBS and Wood Group directorships await no doubt in his very comfy retirement.

    Scotland’s Shame

  18. Mikey2407

    Does he really think that folk have memories that are that short? He refused to serve in a Johnson government less than six months ago.

  19. Corrado Mella

    Fluffy Snackbeard is an opportunistic, sleekit sociopath that will say anything and its opposite to kiss the arse of the powerful.

    A nobody in desperate search of validation from his masters.

    He’ll be out at next GE.

  20. Clootie

    Mundell is loyal to his “betters”.

    The vision for Scotlands future is clear and devolution will be unpicked at haste. Without the EU legislation and controls it will be a full return to 1707 and the rough wooing.

    When the choice is Johnston or Farage expect a very aggressive time.

    We will get the society and EU relationship that England wants and it will be imposed with relish.

  21. HandandShrimp


    Is be useful? He has never struck me as being so.

  22. Portjim

    Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are crap at demonising – if you want to see how it’s done, look to the Tories!
    They have spent the past decade demonising the independence movement in general and the SNP leadership in particular, ably assisted by Labour / LibDems (well, maybe “ably” is an exaggeration) and their propagandists in the press / TV.
    In fact, I seem to recall an election poster which featured an SNP leader kitted out with satanic horns etc. Now that’s demonising!

  23. Marcia

    He blows with the Tory wind.

  24. galamcennalath

    Mair faces than the toon clock!

    Ye canna trust a Tory.

    The existence of a narrow focus party whose mission is to look after the interests of the better off minority relies on lies and deceit. They need a veneer of respectability to hide their true nature. The object is to get sufficient gullible ordinary folks to back them so they can gain power at a UK level. A dose of popularism and some downright lies does the trick. They will say whatever it takes.

    Fortunately, we Scots don’t seem to fall for it to the same extent.

    Too wee, nope. Too poor, nope. Too stupid, well, the indications are looking better that we are in fact more savvy!

  25. fletch49er

    He’s worse than ‘Indecisive Dave’ from The Fast Show

  26. Fergus Green

    Jings! The vicar of Bray. I got taught this song at school but I never thought there was so much substance to the lyrics. Now its back inside my head and I’ll be humming this all day.

  27. blackhack

    He’s got more faces than a dungeons and dragons dice

  28. Jockanese Wind Talker

    Fluffy Mundell, 2nd Last Viceroy of Scotland?

    PM BoJos Scottish Secretary will surely be:

    Ross Thomson MP (who has come a long way since his appearance in the video footage of Jim Murphy Egg Gate as “Shouty BritNat”).

    Westminster’s Last Viceroy of Scotland.

  29. Ken500

    Please, please folk in the Borders, vote out this despicable, compulsive liar. There are no words to describe this shambles. The Tories are a shameful mess.

    Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get someone to vote as well. Donate, join and campaign. Job done.

    Save Scotland and the world from these malicious characters.

    Extra donation. Well worth it.

  30. Macart

    Mundell and principle…

    Complete strangers.

  31. Artyhetty

    Those lyrics could apply to quite a few massively over paid, jumped up, talentless minions of the Britnat state for sure.

    I would say I don’t know how they sleep at night, but as he and other Tories, and red and yellow Tories take a huge amount of money from the public purse, they probably sleep extremely well.

    Here’s a quote from Upton Sinclair, though the ‘understanding’ part could be changed to ‘tell the truth’, and of course it applies to women as well. ‘It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.’

    Still it can’t be good for the soul, doing the Britnat states’ dirty work for them all the time. Bit like working for the mafia, always at their mercy, never your own person.

  32. Frank Gillougley

    a person who behaves obsequiously to those in power.
    “he is a lickspittle for the Establishment”

  33. geeo

    fletch49er says:

    17 May, 2019 at 12:41 pm

    He’s worse than ‘Indecisive 

    Perfect example !!! Well played sir 🙂

  34. geeo

    fletch49er says:

    17 May, 2019 at 12:41 pm

    He’s worse than ‘Indecisive dave’

    Oops, missed out a bit on the quote…

  35. galamcennalath

    Looks like the Tories in Scotland are competing directly with the Brexit party. Über BritNats. It seems probable that in the EU election Brexit will get one seat, and Tories none. If there was a GE anytime soon the Tories could lose all their MPs. How Brexit plays out dictates whether they survive.

    In a sad and twisted way, it’s all good news for the Indy clause! Others’ demise is our good fortune. If that’s how the dice fall, fair enough.

  36. boris

    Her advice to a group of aspiring journalists:

    “Keep your personal politics out of your reporting. When I contacted the Tory Party and said that I wanted to join and be a candidate, their head of press (who I’d dealt with many times) had no idea I was a Tory – and neither had the party’s leader who I’d interviewed often. The job, particularly in broadcast, is to tell people what’s going on; it is not to be an active agent of change and try and shape what’s going on – it is to be an honest narrator.”

    She went on: “Folk can smell spin a mile off. They aren’t stupid. They know if you are not answering a question or if you don’t really mean what you say. So my best advice is to just try not to say anything you don’t mean and you’ll never be caught out.”

  37. Dr Jim

    Every pound spent in Strathclyde on Independence is worth more than all the money spent in Croyden

  38. Robert Louis

    Decades ago, but within my lifetime, Scottish Tories, despite their views, would often stand up for Scotland, and aspects of its history and culture. Yes, they were Tories, but they actually had respect for THIER OWN country, Scotland.

    Now, we have a shallow wee shiver of a man, who has absolutely no integrity whatsoever, on any level. He sneers at Scotland, whilst merrily dancing a jig for his London masters whose oversized boots he licks. It is all just a game for Mundell.

    In some way, in the past, some tories in Scotland were more fervent about defending Scotland, than Labour (before the rise of the SNP).

    Oh, I’m not saying they were good for Scotland, because they were not, but they did have backbones and a modicum of integrity. Now we have Scottish Tories, who are either sexual offenders, racists, an utter self-serving, careerist gobsh*te of a Scottish ‘leader’ or one of the most pathetic men in Politics.

    Tories In Scotland do need to take a good long hard look at themselves, for they have become a party of nobodies, who happily sneer at Scotland’s success, then bray like donkeys in the House of commons, in response to anything said by the SNP. Happy to lick the boots of their London masters, yet sneering all the while at Scots and Scotland.

    Where ARE their principles? Where is their integrity? I can see none.

  39. DerekM

    Wee davy will be hoping that boris has forgot all about that being a dunderhead,well i think we vile cybernats should remind boris its the decent thing to do even if boris is a fanny 😉

  40. galamcennalath

    Robert Louis says:

    In some way, in the past, some tories in Scotland were more fervent about defending Scotland, than Labour

    Yes, they have changed utterly. In the 1950s they campaigned against Labour’s centralising. They were responsible for some of the investments in Scotland i.e. Linwood, Bathgate etc.. Pre Thatcher there was no talk of widespread denationalisation and asset striping.

    I’ve never voted anything other than SNP, but 50s to 70s Tories were not the dodgy nasty-politics salesmen of recent decades. Looking back, I’m not really sure Labour delivered more for Scotland nor offered better government than Tories pre-Thatcher.

  41. manandboy

    Spurred on by relentless campaigning against a 2nd Independence Referendum, in GE2017, Mundell reaped the reward in an increase in his vote from 20,759 in GE2015, to 24,177. At the same time, the SNP vote fell to 14,736 from 19,961 in GE2015, after a lacklustre and badly misguided campaign by SNP which resulted in the loss of 21 MP’s, as many Yes voters, interested only in Independence, stayed at home. It was a bitter lesson for the SNP and Nicola’s lowest point.

    Is it any wonder that Ruth Davidson, David Mundell and Theresa May never stop talking about a second Independence referendum. For the Tories in Scotland, it is their path to victory when the SNP take their eye off the Independence ball, to play other political games.

  42. Truth

    He’s really bringing the role of SoS for Scotland into disrepute. He’s bringing MPs into disrepute.

    He really shouldn’t be in that role and find something more suitable like used car salesman or estate agent.

  43. Breeks

    Boris has been demonised has he?

    I thought he’d just been arsehole-ised, and the investiture seemed commendably appropriate in my humble opinion.

  44. Robert J. Sutherland

    It’s not just Mundell either. Today the Ruth-Davidson-don’t-vote-for Nicola-Sturgeon Party leaflet arrived at Sutherland Towers, and what a disgrace. Besides the monomaniacal witterings about our dear FM which took up the vast majority of its space, the only intimation on EU policy is a small inducement to help impose Brexit upon Scotland. This miserable simulacrum of a policy statement also features images of the selfsame Great Leaderene who back in 2016 urged us all so earnestly to reject the madness of Brexit and excoriated its Tory champion.

    Craven, self-serving and duplicitous doesn’t even start to describe Ruth Davidson, as it also fails to encompass that utterly useless balloon Toom Tabard.

  45. desimond


    He is very useful to them that needs him…for some shiny baubles in his purse and multiple jolly vacations here there everywhere, they get to take all the spoils out of Scotland while he stands front and centre taking all the questions on like an ignorant ignoramus who clearly justs sits in cabinet meeting thinking “I did well today, I brought the shortbread!”

  46. Effijy

    Silly Billy you lot!

    Of course clueless, moral-less beard munchers desperate to keep a job
    Way above their station would say and do anything to continue with his
    Lap dog support for any new master.

    Bungling Boris might just be stupid enough to employ him on Circa £70K per annum.

    Who else in their right mind would give him a job?

    Beard munching isn’t acceptable in MacDonalds!

  47. Graf Midgehunter

    Marcia says: 12:12 pm

    “He blows with the Tory wind.”
    Better: He is the tory wind.

    Scotland’s real, disgusting (Norwegian word) to London.

  48. robertknight

    How can you tell when Her Brittanic Majesty’s Governor General for Scotland is telling fibs?

    His lips move!

    Perhaps he’s been taking tips from that other weel kent purveyor of falsehoods, A’liar Carmichael. Seems to be a common condition amongst BritNats.

  49. Welsh Sion

    Vicar of braying?

    Aye. Mundell is very asinine – and knows hee haw.

  50. Artyhetty


    You are correct there in many ways. I watched a film about Scotland and a Tory MP in Scotland, in the 50’s was literally
    trying to bring more prosperity, and jobs to Scotland, and I cannot remember his name.

    If you go onto the National Library of Scotland’s image archive films, and put in a search top right of the page, just with ‘conservatives’ it comes up with many interesting films re politics in Scotland etc.

    One called. ‘TOWN AND CANDIDATES, HAMILTON’, 1978, is available to watch. They are all in copyright, so can’t share but have a watch anyone who is interested. Many good films re, Scotland especially fascinating ones about, Scotland’s abundant resources. weird eh.

  51. Graf Midgehunter

    From the Rev’s twitter. Kinda O/T

    This is the sort of deranged crap you get when chlorinated chickens rot your brains.

    Twats like Mundel and Liam Fox won’t stop it getting in over here.. Indy can’t come quick enough.

  52. jfngw

    The Ruth Davidson Parties message is simple, England has decided, it’s time the Scots shut up and do what they are told. Even though the SNP EU polling is over four times our support that does not give them a mandate over Scotland, we hold the mandate because MP’s from England have a veto over your future.

    We need to send a message to Ruth Davidson, it’s time to respect Scotland’s vote and stop pushing another countries priorities. Let’s remove all Tories from representing Scotland in the EU on the 23rd May.

    In fact any party that supports Scotland being removed from the EU, under any circumstances, are not representing Scotland’s voters, they are putting England’s voters choices first.

  53. Gary45%

    The fluff meister can only dream of reaching the heady accolade of Twat or even FUD.
    Personally I can’t think of a suitable word to describe the useless %? #*.
    Plamph comes close, but even that word is too high a compliment.

  54. Gary45%

    There was an article in the IScot a while back regarding the days when the Tories actually stood up for Scotland interests, Prestwick comes to mind.
    Those days are long gone.

  55. Robert J. Sutherland

    Graf Midgehunter @ 15:38,

    There’s a difference. Ineffectual twats like Mundull [sic] indeed can’t stop anything. They’ll take whatever shit is handed out to them and be supinely grateful for the “favour”. If the FM has the occasional bout of “impostor syndrome” (a sure sign of quality and competence), Toom Tabard must be haunted by a constant feeling of genuine incompetence. Poor cringeworthy fool.

    Liam Fox is another story. He is positively in favour of US clienthood. So much for “taking back control”. That malactor genuinely works to deliver us to chlorinated chickens and every other loss of actual sovereignty that goes with them. Being deliberate and proactive, his level of treachery is an order of magnitude worse.

    Not that it matters much in the end. History is going to be unreservedly contemptuous of both.

  56. Robert Louis

    So just to be clear, officially,

    Labour is PRO BREXIT, and will forcefully remove Scotland from the EU against its wishes and strip Scots of their EU citizenship against their wishes, if it were ever in government.

    Tories are PRO BREXIT, and will forcefully remove Scotland from the EU against its wishes and strip Scots of their EU citizenship against their wishes, if they remain in government.

    That is what both Tories and Labour in Scotland laughably refer to as ‘democracy’.

    Only one kind of vote sends a really strong message to these London-worshipping clowns in the red and blue Tories, and that is to vote SNP at the EU elections next week.

  57. jfngw

    Mundell is just a candle in the wind, he moves in whichever way this Tory wind is blowing. He is the low-middle manager type who is there to regurgitate whatever policies are handed down. He would also fit perfectly in the BBC, a yes man with no motivation or abilities except retaining his position.

    Just think if we don’t become independent his next position will be in the HoL, reward for services to England and we can never remove him.

  58. Capella

    The lyrics were good. But the “tune” just demonstrates everything that’s wrong with the English folk tradition. How they must puzzle over the Celts’ musical ability.

    Since song and lyrics are allowed on this thread, here’s Dick Gaughan singing “Parcel O’ Rogues”, a perfect description of Mundell and his ilk:

  59. robertknight

    The paradox is that the party in Scotland most vocal in its opposition to Brexit is the one which is set to gain most by it.

    Brexit is the catalyst for IndyRef2. Without Brexit, where lies the “significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014”?

    A People’s Vote which resulted in a victory for ‘Remain’ would surely nullify the raison d’être for IndyRef2.

    We certainly live in interesting times.

  60. auld highlander

    I wonder if his school report card mentioned anything about his ability to distinguish between fact and fiction. Seems to me that it’s jst a case of telling the public what they want them to hear whether it’s true or not.

    Lying cheating two faced slimy slithering erse licking b’stards the whole lot of them.

  61. Robert Louis


    I doubt they will keep the likes of Mundell and champagne ‘socialists; from the Labour party from Scotland in the house of Lords once we are independent.

    I guess that explains why Alistair Darling campaigned against the restoration of Scottish democracy and the removal of English colonial rule.

    Mind you, Mundell is percieved within the Tory party the same as he is seen by Scots, and so they would probably just not bother giving him a seat in the lords. He just doesn’t matter. Or as a REAL (i.e English) Tory might put it, you don’t promote ‘the help’.

  62. Proud Cybernat

    “A People’s Vote which resulted in a victory for ‘Remain’ would surely nullify the raison d’être for IndyRef2.”

    The SNP fighting for a People’s Vote is a sure fire way that it’ll never happen. The ‘Bain Principle’ and all that.

  63. Welsh Sion

    My birthday gift to you – dedicated to the Great Man of Scottish politics (with acknowledgements).

    14. (of 20.)

    I am the very model of a modern Viceroy-General

    I am the very model of a modern Viceroy-General
    I only have information on matters Better Togetheral,
    I dunno the kings of Scotland, nor the battles historical
    Not Flodden nor C’loden, in any order categorical.
    I’m not at all acquainted with matters mathematical,
    I mis-understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
    About binominal theorem, I really have no news,
    With a doleful look about the square of the hypotenuse.
    I’m hopeless at integral and differential calculus;
    I dunno scientific names of beings animalculous:
    ‘Tis only in matters completely Better Togetheral,
    I am the very model of a modern Viceroy-General.

    Songs for the New Politics

  64. galamcennalath

    Big yougov UK wide poll for EU election ….

    Brexit Party – 35%
    Lib Dem – 16%
    Lab – 15%
    Green – 10%
    Con – 9%
    Change UK – 5%
    UKIP – 3%
    Other – 7%
    (Fieldwork 12-16 May)

    Tories clearly toast! Time they got their comeuppance. (Even if it’s for not being far right enough for its supporters.)

    But ….

    That’s 31% + say 4% of others = ~35% for Remain parties

    62 + 3 = ~65% for Leave parties

    Since the UK is around 50:50, this suggests a lot of people are voting very oddly and on issues other than Brexit. In an EU election at this stage of the Brexit process, what issue is there for the EU other than Brexit!?

  65. Bob Mack

    The only politician I know who could limbo dance under a discarded match on the ground whilst wearing a top hat.
    Roothie would be a close second.

  66. The Tree of Liberty

    I used this one for describing Danny Alexander, but I’m going to use it again for Mundell.

    We can be assured that Mr Mundell will never ever suffer fae haemorrhoids, he is a perfect arsehole.

  67. HandandShrimp

    Given the mad Col banned Boris from the Scottish Tory conference how does Fluffy work out we are demonizing him?

  68. Robert J. Sutherland

    galamcennalath @ 17:41,

    Well, for the Little Corporal at least, it’s just to tell Nicola Sturgeon… Nicola Sturgeon… Nicola… =echo= … =echo= not to have any more referendums… ever… ever…

    Very strange personal emphasis. She’s desperately seeking a catfight (not having anything better to offer).

  69. CameronB Brodie

    Who can have confidence in a man who clearly lacks confidence in his own reason and judgement? The Secretary of State for Scotland should trust his lack of rational judgement, and hud his wheest about stuff that appears to be above his pay-grade. He has a legal training but clearly has no respect for law and order (see the full-English Brexit).

    Equity – law and idea


    This free course, Equity – law and idea, is divided into two parts. To begin you will explore the background of equity. The discussion will focus on two interrelated perspectives concerning equity both as a body of laws and idea of justice. One example of why these might be considered ‘interrelated’ is that equity as an idea represents ‘an ethic for imagining better law and better life’ (Watt, 2012, p. 1), meaning inter alia, taking seriously equity’s foundational principles in the practice of law, and (re)focusing on forms of equity that do not allow law to be ‘fully in command’ or morality to lose relevance (Fox, 1993, p. 101).

    The product of this ‘refocus’ is a juridical mode of thinking capable of challenging and holding to account opportunism in respect of property dealings within modern capitalist society. Opportunism thus represents negative, immoral or unethical aspects that arise under capitalism as the prevailing form of economic organisation in England and Wales. The second section will then develop this evaluation of equity further in terms of the contemporary economic context. This includes, for example, considering the argument that, contrary to a vision of equity as a form of defence or mitigation against opportunism, that it in fact promotes opportunism via, for example, trusts.

    This OpenLearn course is an adapted extract from the Open University course W302 Equity, trusts and land.

  70. geeo

    You have not been paying attention, robertknight, have you ?

    The SNP manifesto actually said “material change of circumstances SUCH AS being taken out the EU against our will”.

    Thats ‘such as’ not EXCLUSIVELY .

    Not sure how many dozens of times that REALITY has been posted on here, but it is an awful lot.

    So you either read with your eyes shut, or are deliberately ignoring the fact.

    Which is it ?

  71. geeo

    Moray MSP, Richard Lochhead, commenting on last night’s QT travesty from Elgin in his constituency said:

    “This latest attack on the SNP is nothing more than shameless hypocrisy and opportunism from Moray’s Conservatives.”


    “And locally, the Tories were part of the Moray administration for 10 years and walked away after they fell out with everyone and failed to take the big decisions that have led us to where we are today as was highlighted by Audit Scotland.

    “Some honesty and responsibility from Moray Tories would go a long way as would some genuine concern for the families and communities affected by Moray Council’s predicament rather than just point scoring against the SNP.

    “In terms of the audience on the night, it seemed that almost everyone in the local Moray Conservative Party had turned out – including a former Tory MSP and her Tory councillor colleagues – so it is no surprise that it was unrepresentative.”

    Well said !!

  72. velofello

    Muddle working for Johnson? Not a problem, kindred spirits.Reminds me of Rab C Nesbit on holiday going onto his apartment balcony and greeting his equivalent foreign Rab C a few balconies close by.

  73. Ken500

    Approx 40% Brexit. 60% Remain or other.

    Higher in Scotland.

    More Remain (other) than in EU Ref.

    Polls could be misleading

  74. Ken500

    If people stay at home and don’t vote. Do not blame the SNP. It is the fault of the non voters. The SNP members are out campaigning and donating. Doing all they can to get people to vote,

    Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get another to vote as well.

    The decision is in people’s hands. Either use it or lose it. Stark choice.

  75. Capella

    Powerful video on EU and human rights 4.34 mins:

  76. CameronB Brodie

    Fact – the full-English Brexit is an expression of right-wing, populist, English nationalism.

    Fact – the full-English Brexit was achieved partly as a result of proven electoral fraud.

    Fact – every electoral district in Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

    Fact – Scotland and England are considered equal legal parties under international law.

    Fact – stripping Scotland’s resident’s of their legal EU personality, is an act of authoritarian political violence.

    @The Secretary of State for Scotland
    Here’s some legal theory to help you find you way towards morally sound legal rationality.

    Fact and Law in the Causal Inquiry


    This paper takes it as a premise that a distinction between matters of fact and of law is important in the causal inquiry. But it argues that separating factual and legal causation as different elements of liability is not the best way to implement the fact/law distinction. It is partly a legal question what counts as a cause-in-fact; and certain liabilitylimiting doctrines under the umbrella of “legal causation” depend on the application of factual-causal concepts.

    The contrastive account of factual causation proposed in this paper improves matters. This account more clearly distinguishes matters of fact from matters of law within the cause-in-fact inquiry. It also extends the scope of cause-in-fact to answer some questions currently answered by certain doctrines of legal causation – doctrines which, it is argued, are more naturally seen as applications of our ordinary causal concept than as non-causal liabilitylimiting devices.

  77. Confused

    yay, stueys back on the day job

    – in my minds eye I see a determined, focussed gaze, finger on the trigger, spandau cocked …

    – the legions of wingers feeding the belt into the mechanism as over a shallow trench stand a rancid pack of – yoons, britnats, careerists, opportunists, makeweights, cooncillors, knife n foark jobbies, hacks, academic hacks, every disgusting prostitute with a typewriter, every yoonbeard with a blog, every offended woke-nat with a grievance, every byres road barista writing their thesis on intersectionality and scottish nationalism …

    – the finger squeezes and the bodies are ripped apart into bloodied chunks as the high calibre rounds explode …

    ahem, figuratively speaking, of course.

    – for the matter in hand – somebody should prank Mundell, just to see how far he would go

    – the milgram experiment he would fail too easily; instead, someone must tap him up, say they like the cut of his jib, that he has been spotted, he is in to join


    – and THESE are the guys who REALLY RUN THINGS – screw the illuminati and all that …

    but he has to pass the initiations – these are a series of increasingly disgusting and depraved humiliations and violations, in order, say …

    1. witness a murder
    2. kill a random vagrant
    3. sacrifice a trafficked child on an altar

    – would be a good kick off … then we can run thru the list (simulated, of course) – murder, paedophilia, zoophilia, necrophilia, coprophilia with eyes wide shut bullshit – then get it all on video and uploaded onto youtube; usually in this list having things shoved-up-yer-butt would be a thing – but he’s already into all that, so “nothing to be gained” on that score.

    quelle horreur – you go too far… what a shocking idea!

    – except this is pretty much what the spooks do, for real. Groom you, hook you, find your kink and then use you.

    – for a long time I have thought that unionist political parties use something like the Hare Test for Psychopathy to select candidates, except you have to FAIL it, the worse the better – anyone with a score less than 10 is too close to a normal human being to be useful, instead the talent they look for is >20 (out of 40); people who score > 30 tend to have, e.g. body parts in freezers, and the rare 40/40 pure psychopath, is something entirely on its own (- a prison wing to yourself, for example).

    There was a time I once thought America Psycho and Dr Strangelove were whacky, way “out there” satire – now, seems more like documentary.

  78. HandandShrimp

    Had a quick look at the BBC HYS. The green ink Brigade are working overtime with a remarkably small crib sheet of things to say. However they are making up for it with their swivelness of eye. Lot of poor keyboards taking a pounding tonight as some angry people foam at the mouth.

    I think the opinion polls are starting to rattle nerves. A lot of these people are Tories first and foremost and their party is coming apart at the seams.

  79. Terry callachan

    To geeo re your post at 6.56pm replying to Robert Knight

    Have you had your blood pressure checked recently ?

  80. HandandShrimp

    On Mundell, would Boris retain him. Ross is a massive fan boy and will almost certainly back Boris. Mundell I would have thought would align with someone more moderate…unless he is as big a toady as Ross and devoid of any principles whatsoever.

    Unfortunately for Mundell, Boris does look like one of the frontrunners…which is amazing considering how incompetent he was as FS.

  81. Ottomanboi

    The British state is shapeshifting into a politically unstable banana kingdom. No Deal Brexit looks pretty certain, so does loads of BritNat Faragists in Brussels and Bumbling Boris for Downing st. Satrap Mundell will want to keep his pathetic little job,
    The perfect storm is brewing which ought to propel Scotland out of this dangerous liaison. A fair amount of turbulence is to be expected. Enjoy!

  82. Robert J. Sutherland

    Well, the Little Corporal has raised her standard, and thereby put her reputation and her policy on the line. The only flag flying is “no to a referendum”. Nothing else. So if the Tories crash-and-burn at this upcoming election, as they might very well do, whatever shred of a “winning” =cough= mandate =cough= Ruthless managed to achieve back in 2017 with the help of an adoring media, it will have shrivelled away to nothing.

    Just imagine what the SNP could make of that kind of total failure. Maybe it’s not just Mayhem whose days at the helm are strictly numbered.

  83. CameronB Brodie

    The Secretary of State for Scotland clearly does not have Scotland’s best interests at heart. Well, he’s just being a Tory. Time for a wee insight from social psychology?

    Do individualists have a higher opportunistic propensity than collectivists? Individualism and economic cooperation

    Relationality differentiations due to the individualism-collectivism construct

    ….Recent studies underlined the normative constraints which determine individualism and collectivism. Miller (1999) focused on the norm of self-interest which, in western cultures, is a powerful predictor of behaviour and leads individuals to act as if their self-interest was very important. Dubois and Beauvois (2005) showed that three features of individualism, that is self sufficiency, individual anchoring and internality, are normative while the primacy of individualistic goals seems to be rather counter-normative. McAuliffe, Jetten, Hornsey, and Hogg (2003) study showed the necessity for individualism not to be inconsistent with group’s ideas and norms, “going your own way” being tolerated only if group endorses individualism.

    The examination of culture according to the values of individualism versus collectivism has shown various reliable differentiations in what regards self-concept, relationality, well-being, or attribution style, which refer to the degree that a culture encourages the individual wishes, goals and needs against those of the collective (Matsumoto, Weissman, Preston, Brown, & Kupperbusch, 1997; Triandis, 1995).

    Although sometimes seen as simple opposites, it is more accurate to consider individualism and collectivism as worldviews that can coexist in individuals (Singelis, 1994), although they often lay emphasis on different prominent elements (Kagitcibasi, 1997) which permit to distinguish between subjects who are more or less individualists.

    Interdependence, sociability, family integrity, security, good social relationships, in-group harmony, and personalized relationships seem to be some of the values that collectivists care about (Triandis, McCusker, & Hui, 1990). Collectivists put aside the individual goals in order to accomplish those of the collective and feel emotionally dependent on others. Thus interaction with in-group members is high and privacy is low (Hui 1984, 1988; Hui & Triandis, 1986). They have fewer skills than individualists in dealing with new groups and strangers (Cohen, 1991), compete more vigorously and exploit out-groups more than do individualists (Espinoza & Garza, 1985). They are more likely to keep important information to themselves and consider lying to be a rather acceptable behavior if it benefits the in-group (Triandis, 1995).

    Individualism promotes values such as freedom, equality and equity, competition, participation, self-reliance, trust of others, competence, utilitarian pursuits, independence and separation from family, loneliness, self-improvement, desire to be distinguished. In individualistic cultures individuals pay more attention to themselves, to their own goals, and to their privacy and have strong ability to withstand social pressures (Markus & Kitayama, 1991). They do their duty mainly when their computation of the advantages and disadvantages suggest they would derive a clear benefit (Triandis, 1995) and may pursue their self-interest, regardless of its implications for the collective.

  84. Robert J. Sutherland

    Terry callachan @ 20:09,

    What exactly has that to do with the topic of this thread, pray? The house rules state “play the ball, not the man”. So what is your game with this deliberate provocation?

    Not for the first time injecting a nasty whiff on here…

  85. galamcennalath

    Robert Peffers has been quiet for a good few days now. Hope there’s not a problem.

  86. robertknight

    @geeo 6:56

    Forgive me if I’m pointing out the blindingly obvious, but…

    The mandate which the SNP Govt. has been afforded via the Scottish Parliament to hold IndyRef2, (Subject to WM acquiescing to a Section 30 Order – as stated by the FM herself before anyone starts…), within THIS parliamentary session, relates directly to the fact that 62% in Scotland voted Remain AND that to withdraw Scotland from the EU in spite of that constitutes a “significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014”. (If 62% had voted Leave then it’d be irrelevant in as much as a clear majority had voted for a “significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014” – Holyrood being unlikely to have agreed to the SNP minority Govt’s calls to hold IndyRef2 in such circumstances).

    Whatever the SNP manifesto said is irrelevant in a situation where the SNP forms a minority government. It must persuade other parties as to the wisdom of it’s legislative programme and in this case the support from others was given in the circumstances of the Brexit result.

    Now, unless there’s another event which has or is likely to have taken place during this parliamentary session, other than Brexit, which constitutes a “significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014”, and which the rest of the world, including the Scottish Parliament, hasn’t heard of then let’s hear it.

    _ | _ _

  87. jfngw


    The continuity bill being struct down, the Sewel Convention being ruled not worth the paper it was printed on, the reversal of the powers voted for in the 1997 referendum. That’s three material changes in my book, but I suppose that’s up to individual interpretations.

    Also if if there is a substantial move in public opinion was another criteria, we may see this on the 23rd May, but it depends on the turnout, the EU elections may not be a good gauge.

  88. jfngw

    Johnson will not have Mundell, he will want his own man with his hand on the pump. From what I’ve seen Ross Thomson has been stroking the Johnson ego, he looks like he will be Johnson hands on man in Scotland.

  89. McDuff

    Had a rare listen to England`s R4 yesterday and there was a discussion about HS2 and how it should be extended to Carlisle to help make all of the Nr of England a powerhouse.
    The cost of the project was also discussed with a figure of at least £55 billion which the taxpayer will fund. Throughout all of this one word was missing, of course it was Scotland. Why is this line stopping at the border and not continuing on into “Nr Briton”?
    There is no doubt that the plan is to run Scotland down and make it dependent on its southern neighbour eventually absorbing it into England, the signs are already there.
    It is staggering we will be paying billions to generate prosperity in the English north at the expense of our own country.

    Oh and they also discussed Crossrail.

  90. robertknight

    jfngw @9:36

    I don’t dispute your take on material changes.

    However, the current mandate refers specifically to Brexit…

    “On 28 March 2017, the Scottish Parliament voted 69–59 on Motion S5M-04710, in favour of holding a second referendum on Scottish independence. Prior to the passage of the motion, a Green Party amendment was passed, by the same margin, that seeks to enable 16 and 17 year-olds and EU citizens the opportunity to vote in a referendum.

    The full motion:

    That the Parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and therefore mandates the Scottish Government to take forward discussions with the UK Government on the details of an order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum to be held that will give the people of Scotland a choice over the future direction and governance of their country at a time, and with a question and franchise, determined by the Scottish Parliament, which would most appropriately be between the autumn of 2018, when there is clarity over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, and around the point at which the UK leaves the EU in spring 2019; believes that this gives people in Scotland a choice at a time when there is both the most information and most opportunity to act; further believes that 16 and 17-year-olds and EU citizens, who were excluded from the EU referendum, should be entitled to vote, and considers that this referendum is necessary given the Prime Minister’s decision to negotiate a hard exit from the EU, including leaving the single market, which conflicts with assurances given by the UK Government and prominent Leave campaigners, and which takes no account of the overwhelming Remain vote in Scotland.

    Following the 2017 UK general election, Nicola Sturgeon announced that the Scottish Government would postpone legislation pertaining to the proposed second referendum on Scottish independence until at least autumn 2018, when it is believed that the outcome of Brexit negotiations should become clearer.”

    The other material changes have not resulted in any similar Motion or Bill being brought before Holyrood. Such would require the support of the Green Party in any event.

  91. jfngw

    The Brexit party and its acolytes position is now ‘there is no point to manifestos as they are now discredited’. I presume we are now just picking who we like and whatever lie they want to say this week. This is why Farage goes into a strop, he wants you to not know what his policies are and what he has said in the past.

    Just one small step to ‘there is no point to elections, the mainstream politicians are now discredited’.

  92. jfngw


    I don’t consider a vote in parliament a mandate, it is the will of the parliament. And yes the vote was referring to Brexit as that was the over-riding event. There is nothing to stop any party bringing another motion to parliament to widen this criteria. I don’t think they will but that is another matter.

    The word mandate is normally used to refer to items within a election manifesto of the elected party. This is more fluid at Holyrood as gaining an overall majority is not supposed to happen.

    I don’t believe there was ever the intention of the SNP to have another referendum before 2024, it was Brexit that forced the issue. This then released an even bigger can of worms regarding Westminster’s response to Holyrood and democracy in Scotland.

  93. Graf Midgehunter

    Johnny Foreigner. “Looking in from the outside”

    An interview with Farage by the “Spiegel” magazine, in English.

    In 1933 something similar happened…

    Wehret den Anfängen – (Resist the beginnings)

  94. Morgatron

    Hes a wee yellow bellied prick. In any other business he would be the bell boy. A total waste of space who has just bluffed (sorry fluffed) his way to that position. Come to think of it , every SOSFS could wear that crown. Incompetent wee git.

  95. Iain mhor

    Ooooh class evisceration.

    The Braying reminded me of:
    “Did he just call you a donkey?”
    “Aye, eee-aw, eee-aw, eee-aways ca’s me that”

  96. robertknight


    The word “mandates” appears in the first sentence of the Motion, so I’ll bow to the wordsmith who drew it up as to its use in the context in which it appears.

    As for other Motions, you’re right, but whether the PO would permit time for debate and what chance a majority for any particular flavour – who knows.

  97. CameronB Brodie

    I see Farage wants to re-make British politics. That’s what I want to do but I’m not a deceitful, narcissistic, xenophobic, far-right, English nationalist, demagogue. I’m also lack backers with dark-money.

    The Radical Remaking of Economics
    To place economics on a solid footing, we need to build its intellectual foundations

  98. CameronB Brodie

    I almost forgot I got a very prompt and helpful reply to my inquiry re. MSP Willie Rennie’s claim that the mental health of Fifers is not being properly looked after. He appears to be fibbing, of course, and running-down confidence in Fife health care and Scotland, in general. Poisonous wee dolt.

    Hi Cameron

    Quote from Julie Paterson, Divisional General Manager (Fife-wide)

    “Fife’s Health and Social Care Partnership continues to work hard to ensure the people of Fife who require access to mental health services do so in a timely manner, including same day response for those in most urgent need. Fife, similar to national trends, has seen an increase in demand for these services.

    We are in the process of completing a refresh of our local mental health strategy which is informed by the people of Fife about what matters to them. We are committed to providing the right service, at the right time in the right setting. This includes a whole system redesign approach which supports anti stigma work, early intervention and providing timely specialist services to those who require them.

    We are delighted to say that peer support is developing as part of this redesign. Last month saw SAM’s café open its doors in Kirkcaldy, providing a safe and friendly space for our communities to get support out with traditional working hours from people who know exactly how it feels to need support. ‘Delivering Differently’ was also launched earlier this week, the focus of which is provision of support for those who need some help and advice to stay in work or return to work after experiencing poor mental health.

    Whilst there is work to do, Fife Health and Social Care Partnership is wholly committed to continuing to develop and deliver the right support at the right time for the people of Fife.”

    Kind regards

  99. Graf Midgehunter

    Will this be the new meet-up point for Wingers in Brussels when the WOS Europe branch opens: The “Wings Tavern” 🙂 🙂–056u1517-b6443a9fdf6642468d8694f70eb45e44?x=ep&map=50.84609,4.35795,15,normal

  100. CameronB Brodie

    re. the re-making of British politics, this is an ongoing project of the New Right. IMHO, the full-English Brexit is an unintended consequence of Thatcherism and can be expected to further erode civil society the quality of life in Britain, for the majority. I suppose some might still consider us Better Together, but I assume they lack imagination and self-awareness.



    The politics of Thatcherism reflects a political and economic project rooted in the ideology of the New Right. While subject to the interplay of opportunity and circumstance, chance and fortune, the Thatcher and Major governments of 1979-1997 did pursue and largely enact a coherent political agenda. Thatcherism is best understood as a process enacted over time. At its very heart was an anti-statist commitment to roll back the frontiers not of the state per se but of the preexisting ‘social democratic’ state.

    As a project simultaneously informed by an ideological doctrine and constrained by the dictates of statecraft, Thatcherism was an agent of political change, one which reconfigurated state and society at the same time it was responsive to political realities and electoral pressures. Rather than spring from nothing, Thatcherism was constructed over time and through experience. As a result, modem politics has seen a dramatic shift in favour of rightreformist
    neo-liberal politics at the expense of left-reformist social democratic politics.

    Through developing a theory of party competition driven party change this thesis explores the much remarked transformation of the Labour Party since 1983. It offers a theory of consensus politics that suggests consensus does not simply reflect a policy coincidence but implies a broad association on general principles which inform the policy decisions parties make. Policy is enacted within a consensual settlement reflecting implicit and unstated ‘guiding assumptions’ shared across parties, an ‘agreement’ existing in the form of a ‘framework’ and part of a prevailing political orthodoxy.

    Contemporary UK party politics are now enacted within a set of parameters enclosing a space on the centre right of politics: The political consequence of Thatcherism lie in a new political middle ground, a changed ideological space between Labour and the Conservatives, a process engendered by party competition driven party change. In programmatic terms, Labour has followed where Thatcherism has led. ‘Modernisation’ is a metaphor for the politics of Catch-Up, the process underpinning Labour’s accommodation to (and adaption of) Thatcherism’s neo-liberal political agenda. As an agency of change Thatcherism has helped recast mainstream ideological politics so influencing the prevailing political agenda to which Labour as an office seeking (and policy seeking) political agent has had to comply.

  101. ElGordo

    eh? 🙂

    jfngw says:
    17 May, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    Mundell is just a candle in the wind,
    He moves in whichever way this Tory wind is blowing,
    He is the low-middle manager type,
    Who is there to regurgitate,
    Whatever policies are handed down.

    He would also fit perfectly,
    In the BBC,
    A yes man,
    With no motivation or abilities,
    Except retaining his position.

    Just think if we don’t become independent,
    His next position will be,
    In the House Of Lords,
    Reward for services to England,
    And we can never remove him.

  102. ElGordo

    It seems to me, you wrote this piece, in the manner of the song, you know the rules, and shouldn’t commit this wrong.

  103. CameronB Brodie

    Folk should be aware that a central theme of the New Right, is the support of “traditional family values”. Think “Victorian Christian paternalism”.

    The New Right, Families and Households


    In this document I first provide some information on Conservatism, Thatcherism and the New Right distinguishing between its neo-liberal and neo-conservative elements. In the next section I try to summarise the content of New Right ideology more succinctly and then describe the New Right approach to the analysis of families and households. In the final section of the document I include some questions which might provide the basis for a written assignment and/or for class discussion and thereby enable students, with the help of their teachers, to make their own evaluations of New Right analyses of Families and Households.

    The New Right: Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Conservatism: A Checklist

    Dimensions of Market Liberalism

    Support for Individual Freedom
    Support for the Market Mechanism and the Private Sector
    Support for Economic Inequality combined with Equality of Opportunity
    Against Socialism
    Against the Post-War Consensus
    Support for lower levels of government spending and lower rates of taxation
    Support for Monetarist rather than Keynesian methods of macroeconomic management.
    Support for privatisation as an alternative to nationalisation
    Support for lower levels of spending on welfare>
    Support for the privatisation of welfare services
    Support for Private Health care and Private Education
    Support for “Quasi-Markets in State Health and Education services
    Supporting the reduction of local government autonomy
    Supporting the reduction of “excessive” trade union power

    Dimensions of Neo – Conservatism

    Support for Traditional Sources of Authority

    Support for the State
    Support for strong, punitive approaches to law and order
    Support for traditional approaches to morality often but not always related to Christian religious beliefs
    Opposition to “liberal permissive society”
    Support for censorship to defend public morals
    Support for the traditional nuclear family
    Support for “traditional” approaches to education
    Support for “national culture” rather than multiculturalism
    A tendency to Euroscepticism on the grounds that closer ties with the European Union will undermine British sovereignty

  104. Liam

    In that Telegraph example I’m having trouble getting beyond the concept embodied in the words: ‘David Mundell Savages’.

    Must be like being yapped at by one of those constantly trebling bonsai lap dogs.

    yip! yip! yip!

  105. CameronB Brodie

    An individual’s sexuality is their concern, but is the Secretary of State for Scotland unaware of the New Right’s attitude towards non-heterosexuals? Or is he simply an opportunistic, idiot, clown?

    Social policy and the New Right

    The New Right are a group of thinkers who believe the family is the cornerstone of all social policies. They came to the fore in the 1980s when Mrs Thatcher was in power. Mrs Thatcher and many Conservative politicians said poor behaviour by young people in schools, on the streets, etc was down to coming from a poor family background.

    New Right thinkers saw the nuclear family as the perfect model of how all families should be, and some politicians like John Redwood were especially critical of young single-mothers. Redwood expressed concern about the cost of welfare payments to single-parent families and these payments encouraged single-parenthood and the subsequent creation of an underclass.

    Single-parenthood was seen as the greatest threat to the nuclear family. Indeed the Conservatives at the time created a moral panic about lone mothers and their threat to society.

    However the New Right identified other areas which were threatening the nuclear family, because there has been an increase in:

    Fatherless families

    Divorce rates


    Gay and lesbian couples/marriages

    Why do you think the New Right has targeted the above? What might New Right thinkers, believe the above cause?

  106. CameronB Brodie

    Sorry, another OT but I don’t want to hog OT.
    re. Ray Blanchard. Time for some more Critical Realism?

    Critical realism: A philosophical framework for the study of gender and mental health


    This paper explores gender and mental health with particular reference to the emerging philosophical field of critical realism. This philosophy suggests a shared ontology and epistemology for the natural and social sciences. Until recently, most of the debate surrounding gender and mental health has been guided either implicitly or explicitly within a positivist or constructivist philosophy. With this in mind, key areas of critical realism are explored in relation to gender and mental health, and contrasted with the positions of positivism and constructivism. It is argued that critical realism offers an alternative philosophical frame-work for the exploration of gender issues within mental health care.

  107. CameronB Brodie

    @Secretary of State for Scottland
    Did they not teach you any International Legal Theory when you were studying law?



    Turning now to the question which is the subject of this paper, the major issue to be addressed is, which groups are entitled to exercise a right to self-determination? The critical uncertainty here is whether the right of self-determination attaches to all “peoples,”38 in a literal sense, or only to those peoples within existing colonial boundaries.

    A. The “Conventional” View

    Broadly speaking, two views can be identified in the literature. Harris, for example, believes that General Assembly Resolution 1514, the first to deal comprehensively with self-determination, contemplates self-determination within existing boundaries. He argues, pragmatically, that this limitation is necessary in the interests of international harmony.39 Accordingly, ethnic minorities, not within definite colonial boundaries, are not entitled to exercise a right of self-determination.

    Presumably therefore, under a strict reading utilizing this approach many recent claims would fail. These would include for example, claims by the peoples of the republics of the former Soviet Union40 against Moscow, by Croatia,41 Slovenia42 and Macedonia43 against Yugoslavia, by the Serbian minority of Krajina against Croatia,44 the Bouganville claim against Papua New Guinea;45 and the list goes on.

    Query whether, according to this view, the claims of the peoples of Baltic states who are arguably resident within pre-existing but dormant colonial boundaries would have any validity under this approach. In Australia, the view which strictly delimits the instances in which self-determination can apply was adopted by the Australian Law Reform Commission (A.L.R.C.), when it reported in 1986 on Aboriginal Customary Law. The A.L.R.C. stated: [A]dvocates for ethnic, indigenous or linguistic minorities sometimes rely upon the principle or right of self-determination in international law as a basis for claims to political or legal recognition.

    So far however, the principle has been confined in international practice to situations involving separate (‘colonial’) territories politically and legally subordinate to an administering power.46 The view espoused by the A.L.R.C. will be termed, for present purposes, the “conventional” view.

    B. The “Controversial” View

    A different, and more controversial perspective is adopted by, among others, Collins and Nanda. Professor Nanda’s thesis is that the right of self-determination extends beyond the colonial context.47 Although in order for the group to qualify for the right, they must first satisfy a formal set of criteria. Moreover, Collins states it is only political exigencies which have focused the right of self-determination onto colonial territories. He argues that:

    although political events have concentrated the UN’s focus on colonial territories and the UN stands firm on the concept of territorial integrity, the principle of self-determination should not be considered strictly as a colonial right.48

    C. Analysis: Which Approach to Self-Determination Is Appropriate?

    It should be clear then that these two approaches, which have been labelled conventional and controversial, are inconsistent. It will be argued here that the latter is preferable; that in certain circumstances, the right to self-determination should be made available to minority groups, as well as states, trusts and non-self governing territories.

    This proposition is based on the view that the controversial theory of self-determination provides a more accurate explanation of the shift in international state practice, as well as a workable prescription for the future. The discussion in this section will show that state practice and the belief of states regarding that practice is in accordance with the controversial view. Moreover, the conventional view is premised on an inherent logical inconsistency, and is unsustainable from a jurisprudential perspective.

    The challenge for international law is therefore not to exclude the ever-increasing list of claimants because they do not match precisely with an outmoded theory, but to find methods for assessing and evaluating the validity of claims according to realistic, functional and humanitarian measures.

  108. Craig Murray

    Two predictions:
    1) The Tories will hang on to a Scottish MEP on the basis of a puzzlingly large number of postal votes
    2) The media will spin this as “Great election victory for Ruth Davidson” “Sturgeon Toast as Colonel Ruthie Triumphs” etc. etc.

  109. Willie

    Come the Euro election next week there is only one vote that can send a message for Scotland and that is SNP.

    Craig Murray’s prediction of a puzzling large postal Tory vote reflects unfortunately the dark forces who would manipulate election results.

    But this can be negated by the effort of getting out every SNP vote possible.

    So again, let us all use the EU election to send a message.

  110. Col

    What I find puzzling in snp appearances on the telly ìs that they continuesly fail to get their points across. Where are Scotlands misappropriated funds? Why are they not making it into the debate whenever possible? If the information is not there WHY is it not available to the partner Kingdom??

  111. Robert Louis

    Craig Murray ,

    I agree with your second point. Any kind of results will be tabled by the unionist media as a ‘victory for ‘First minister-to-be’ Davidson. No matter how bad.

  112. Pietro_McM

    What a lickspittle.

  113. Rick H Johnston

    MacDuff, ye ken fine HS2 will eventually reach the North.
    But of course Scotland is Beyond the North. We won’t get the service but because of the Union Bonus we’ll sure as hell get the bill.
    Now I’ll just check the GERS figures.
    Strangely nothing listed.

  114. One_Scot

    Oh man, zoomed in on the large image, the detail is fantastic. And the joke is also top drawer.

  115. Al-Stuart


    Calton Jock,

    Excellent piece about Ruth Davidson and her embellished claims of military service in Kosovo.

    If what you say is correct and I believe you are spot on, surely Ruth Davidson has committed a disgusting breach known as ‘stolen valour’?

    I would put £100 into a fundraiser to seek civil remedy at court in terms of Ruth lying about her military servivce for “money or other enrichment” …

    One of my best friends actually served in a war zone and is now dead.

    Ruth Davidson’s use and abuse of her pretendy time at university officer cadet corps for her political advantage disgusts me.

    Maybe it sickens others sufficiently to force her to stop this act of stolen valour.

    Rev Stu., possibly worth shining the disinfectant of light and some forensic journalism on exactly what Colonel Davidson has said; whether that infracts the law and if so, what action is available to remedy this disgrace?

  116. Weechid

    Proud Cybernat says:

    17 May, 2019 at 11:34 am

    “This Boris Johnson:

    “The Scotch – A poem about Scotland by Boris Johnson””

    It’s not by Boris Jonson. He published it at the Spectator but he didn’t write it. It was written as a satirical piece to show the and English attitude towards Scots. It’s by a “British” poet James Michie – now deceased.

  117. Orri

    The Kosovo thing isn’t strictly stolen valour as she doesn’t claim to have served.

    However it is a nasty prelude to slandering independence entirely in several ways.

    The threat, especially when she’s banging the Lambeg, is that of civil war.

    The next is the ancestor worshiping adulation of all things British including its armed forces.

    The third is that an independent Scotland wouldn’t be capable of contribution to that kind of “Just War” despite the fact that the Irish army were there.

    A side issue is that Thatcher had a “Just War” moment with the Falklands regardless of the politics.

  118. Col.Blimp IV


    Thanks for the link to Dick Gaughan’s rendition of “A Parcel o’ Rogues”. It reminded me of the time when I didn’t hear him sing it.

    I can’t quite recall if it was because he declined our raucous requests that he sing it, while staring into the big pub mirror that was beside where he stood at the microphone (so he could see what the type of chap the song was written about, looked like), or because we had been forcibly ejected from the venue by the time he did sing it.

    What triggered our loutish behavior, was the epilogue to his previous song “A Man’s a Man”, where he went on at great length to explain how despite scurrilous and disingenuous claims of Narrow Nationalistic Anglophopic Tartan Tories etc.etc…Oor Rabbie would never even consider voting SNP…because anyone who new anything about him could plainly see that he was a LABOUR man to the core.

    The fact that he had been dead for 200 years or more didn’t seem to warrant consideration.

    I hear Dick’s views re self-determination for Scotland have shifted somewhat in the intervening decades, which is good for him and good news for us because based on that night. I would have scored him a 10 on the old Wilson/Foulkes scale of Unionist Despicabillity.

  119. Gary

    My eye was drawn to something in The Herald’s article, “and that it would “kill off” any chance that Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader, might have in becoming FM at the 2021 Holyrood election.”

    I mean…WHIT??? Who thinks that Boris is killing her chances when in fact their poor polling has already killed it off.

    To be fair they have siphoned off the extreme orange vote from Labour but THAT’S IT.

    Get a grip Ruth!!

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