The Unpersons
This is an utterly extraordinary tweet.
The three people who were asking to see the SNP’s books weren’t Sean Clerkin, they were MEMBERS OF THE SNP’S FINANCE & AUDIT COMMITTEE. That is, they were people whose actual literal job is to monitor the SNP’s finances, and who are all drawn from the membership of the SNP.
So what Hunter is saying there is that the SNP chose three of its own members to serve on its own finance committee, yet they could not be allowed to carry out their duties because their loyalties did not lie with the party.
In which case, a reasonable observer might very well ask, what sort of stupendously, farcically incompetent organisation puts such people in such positions?
If the SNP didn’t think these three people were loyal to the party, what on Earth were they doing in those jobs in the first place? Why, indeed, were they still in the party at all? Surely as suspected traitors they should have been given the boot immediately? Exactly what sort of cack-handed two-bob clown show is forgetful chief executive Peter Murrell running for his six-figure salary?
(As the original commenter notes, it’s certainly one that doesn’t appear to be aware that the terms “ringfenced” and “woven through” literally mean the exact opposite of each other. One means “kept separate”, the other means “all mixed together”. The money CAN’T be both ringfenced and woven through the party’s accounts. It can only be one or the other.)
Incidentally, as far as we know only one of the three has subsequently joined another party, Cynthia Guthrie having moved to Alba. Hunter’s comment seems to be a quite monstrous and unwarranted slur on the other two (and, we’re sure, Guthrie too) who to the best of our knowledge had been faithful and diligent SNP members and colleagues of Hunter’s for many years before being put on the committee just a few months ago, at which point they apparently instantly became double agents.
(Indeed, our understanding is that qualified accountant Frank Ross, at least, is still in the SNP, and still serves as Lord Provost of Edinburgh as an SNP councillor. So we’re pretty sure Mhairi Hunter slagging him off like this breaks all sorts of SNP rules, or it would do if the party’s rules were applied to Nicola Sturgeon’s personal clique.)
This sort of deranged paranoid denunciation isn’t going to do anything to enhance anybody’s confidence that the missing £600,000 is nothing to be concerned about. Because as the very best-case scenario, it suggests that the party is being run by a bunch of complete imbeciles rather than crooks. But increasingly it looks like it’s both.
Yes, crooks & imbeciles – very correct description.
Odd business, to halt the bad press and finger pointing all the party has to do is produce the books indicating where the money is.
Of course if the money is gone that would be difficult.
If the money is gone you would perhaps stop people, like the finance committee and other busybodies like members looking at the books.
Not extraordinary more commonplace these days!
It’s smoke and mirrors in any case. All members of the Party should be able to view the accounts in full. And of course the Finance and Audit Committee have not only a right but a duty to do so. Indeed their own personal liabilities are affected, from a professional liability angle in terms of the one who is an accountant, and the duty of probity by company directors such as Cynthia Guthrie.
The elephant in the room is what has happened to the money.
Personally I would shine a searchlight on legal costs, particularly any spent on interdicts to prevent the publication of information about personal conduct.
Needs investigating, no smoke without fire.
Perhaps the Get Salmond team could be deployed.
Sounds like someone could be looking at a wee spell in the open prison.
I wonder who.
M(h)airi isn’t very bright.
The SNP can do no wrong.
Unless someone proved it to me beyond all doubt.
Which would mean they were liars…
I don’t think Hunter’s assessment of anything would be particularly reliable or useful, other than in helping to expose the sheer paucity in intelligent people in the SNP inner circle.
Yet another reason for me not to vote SNP on May 6th. How did it come to this?
Mhari Hunter – never one to let facts get in the way of making a complete fool of herself again.
Mhairi Hunter is the apparatchik’s apparatchik. No capacity for any independent thought, blindly, devotedly loyal to the party line, oblivious and impervious to anything outside her political bubble. Sturgeon and Murrell’s ideal employee.
Morag says:
Quote:-
“4 April, 2021 at 4:04 pm
M(h)airi isn’t very bright.”
No, but sleekit,#. and will be there to the bitter end in the fuerher bunker.
#. She is also capable of selectivly misquoting from this blog to suit her aims, which naturally, are all polar.
When she was attacking Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon could call upon the COPFS led by the Lord Advocate and they would do as instructed, no questions asked.
Ditto the alphabet women and ditto the civil service.
Alex Salmond thus had no chance.
The Lord Advocate and COPFS were questioned many times and by many different people and their standard response was: “the COPFS is staffed by people of the highest integrity and we do not get things wrong”.
They say that all of the time. It is entirely meaningless of course but somehow they get away with it.
This is an SNP internal party matter and I suspect the COPFS and Lord Advocate will not help….they have had enough. They’ve been made to look like fools already and once is enough.
This time they will be the investigators and prosecutors and folk will be watching and expecting to see thoroughness and impartiality.
All Nicola and Peter can count-on this time is John Swinney and his trusty redactor pen and that will be of no value in a fraud investigation.
Where are Nicola’s Storm Troops now? Where are they now when she really needs them?
Blind Loyalty.
I used to rail against anyone suggesting the SNP was a cult.
Its clearly not.
However, its members sail close to the wind with their behaviour and outbursts. It really is extraordinary. The inability to look at ones own behaviour and be critical of same when appropriate is an essential pre-requisite in life.
I unfollowed Mhairi on Twitter 6 months back (or more) when her tribal protection of the FM was getting increasingly unhinged.
We’re now at the stage with some, the FM could shit in the cornflakes, while strangling their dog and they’d still be devout and insist there was nothing to see.
Mhairi is vocative case. Every time she hears her name she thinks she is being addressed directly. Must be very confusing.
The SNP are astoundingly quick of the mark on the PPB front this time … – link to youtube.com
Mhairi Hunter misspoke in her tweet. What she should’ve said was…
“His refusal makes perfect sense given that their loyalties do not lie with Peter or Nicola”.
After all, the SNP is the Murrell & Sturgeon show – and if you’re not with them, you’re against them.
I read earlier that Sturgeon now wants to scrap “not proven” verdicts in sexual harassment cases. Give her another five years in power and she’ll scrap “not guilty” verdicts as well.
Cllr Mhairi Hunter,she’s the one who said not so long ago that we had to be fair to unionists and not take list seats off them.
An absolute political. loon ball woke and all part of the Glasgow South side Nicola clique.
And one of the lon balls who supports SNP list candidates bring selected on the rather perverse criteria of the colour of someone’s skin rather than their ability.
Sorry to say but the woman, if she is that, is an absolute political loon ball.
The SNP needs to take drastic action and expel the Murrells.
Otherwise their vote will be decimated.
“the wrong type of member”
Is that code for not Woke approved?
What kind of idiotic statement is that?. This is Hunter in full meltdown rant.
Perhaps she will tell us where their loyalties lie.
I know Hunter’s don’t lie with Scotland or Women.
To be fair I think it would be difficult for anyone to be as loyal to the leadership of the SNP as Ms Hunter.
Crooks love imbeciles.
Schrödinger Ledger Book. Until the book is open the money is both ringfenced and woven
i am sure someone in a high place can provide the 600,000 as needed, when needed…. no transparency required either…
“Schrödinger Ledger Book. Until the book is open the money is both ringfenced and woven”
An educated follower of these pages wrote-in yesterday to suggest John Swinney redacts everything except the consonants.
That sounded like a fabulous idea to me. That solves the problem. The COPFS are comfortable with redacted pages and so that’s bound to work.
Implied premise – only “loyal” people should be allowed to see the books. That’s a culture of organizational transparency fer ya. I did enjoy the description of Mhairi on the Scottish leftie-Gutmenschen blog http://www.leftungagged.org as “a self confessed SNP hack.”
If the likely truth is that nothing like 600k was ever raised, hence it was never there to be ringfenced, Sturgeon would be smart to put the story to bed with a clear explanation as soon as possible.
That is unlikely as – as astute Wings contributors have revealed – she is congenitally incapable of ever publicly admitting a mistake (unless of the non-admission, “my mistake was I cared too much” variety.)
Another great reason she’s past her sell by date.
Completely losing the plot. It’s significant that very few MSPs and MPs are sticking their heads above the parapet. I wonder if the feisty but lovable, Govanette is losing the dressing room. £600,000 still unaccounted for. SNP accounts still not released.
If the members of the Finance and Audit Committee were prevented from seeing the Party’s accounts by its CEO, and resigned en masse as a result, should Party members not be kicking up stink as a result?
Is this Committee involved in the presentation of accounts to HMRC, or is that done by an external body (if so, who?)?
Was the CEO exceeding his authority by preventing the Committee from seeing the accounts?
Could the leader of the Party over-rule the CEO in instances such as this, were she so inclined?
“Jason Smoothpiece says:
4 April, 2021 at 3:58 pm
Needs investigating, no smoke without fire”
This whole business with the ring-fenced money, of course, stinks.
But, can we leave out the whole “no smoke without fire” stuff. It’s the province of witch-hunting morons, and is what they use against Alex Salmond on a daily basis.
You get parody social media accounts. Didn’t realise you got political party ones as well.
Frank Ross was SNP decades before carpetbagger Hunter dragged herself up here from her London market stall.
So Hunter thinks that no one, member or donator
has any right to see an account of how their money is
spent or earmarked for?
That’s is as bizarre as taking Trans people into Primary Schools.
I can see the people of Paisley being hacked off with her behaviour.
All this and we still have the WhatsApp messages if the Vietnam group to come
Oh dear the murrels have messed up big time
Loyalty to the SNP seems to equal being willing to turn a blind eye to corruption. It’s all starting to sound a bit Stasi like to me.
McHaggis69 says:
4 April, 2021 at 4:17 pm
Blind Loyalty.
I used to rail against anyone suggesting the SNP was a cult.
The Church of Sturgeontology.
NS wants rid of not proven verdicts.
I suspect an AS retrial is in her sights.
JUst when you think the outer limits of the cult have been reached….everyday really is a school day.
Crooked imbeciles hits the mark I think, as for slagging off SNP party officials, no action, zero, nil, nada, was taken when Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine were abused on a daily basis on social media.
Of course the likes of Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford, had no problems back stabbing Joanna Cherry and Kenny MacAskill in recent week.
O/T.
RCS on the radio, we wholeheartedly back Nicola Sturgeon on removing the not proven verdict. Next RCS will come out with a defensive statement backing Sturgeon on the missing indyfunds.
Albert Herring says:
4 April, 2021 at 4:17 pm
Mhairi is vocative case. Every time she hears her name she thinks she is being addressed directly. Must be very confusing.
Must be embarrassing, criticising the pronunciation of Alba when your own name is incorrect Gaelic. Spare a thought for poor Ms Black as well as Ms Hunter.
When I next have to provide proof of income and assets to the benefits office in order to claim Housing Benefit or Council tax reduction can I now just say “No, you aren’t seeing my accounts because your loyalties do not lie with me”?
Why do these folk think they are above the ordinary laws and rules that the rest of us have to follow?
Was just listening to a radio programme with comedian/philosepher Rob Newman called “On Being Above The Law”. Worth a listen – as is his one about cities link to bbc.co.uk
The members of the SNP’s Finance & Audit committee were completely loyal right up to the point where they asked to see the books, when they immediately became disloyal. Blind loyalty is never asking a question, unless it is one of the kind that already contains the correct answer, such as “Isn’t the Dear Leader wonderful?”
I regret to say this all makes sense to me. But then I have read a lot about the way people learned to think under Stalin, Beria, etc. What I really don’t understand is how cowed and terrified groupthink like this has made the jump from the 1950’s CCCP to 21st century Scotland.
Iain Macwhirter: “Nicola Sturgeon’s worst nightmare? Fielding questions from Alex Salmond and George Galloway at FMQs.”
If she’s allowed back into Holyrood, that is. The way it’s looking just now, that’s far from certain.
“What I really don’t understand is how cowed and terrified groupthink like this has made the jump from the 1950’s CCCP to 21st century Scotland.”
You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head, John. Jim Sillars also said a few months ago that: “the toxic tentacles of the SNP had poisoned our public bodies here in Scotland.”
The two observations amount to the same thing.
Mhairi Hunter. Proof if any was ever needed – if you stick a yellow rosette on it, the loyal will vote for it.
What a zoomer.
Rev. Stu Campbell “Sturgeon: My Part in Her Downfall”.
Eat your heart out Spine Milligner! 🙂
Interesting that she thinks loyalty is to a party’s leaders, not to its membership.
But I would have thought the main obligation of audit committee members was to be honest.
Oh well, we stood by and let them cancel our historical “Right to Roam” last year, so perhaps we should not be too surprised if the ever-tightening ratchet is now coming for our uniquely Scottish Not Proven verdict. Once they get that removed, the Scottish Government can move against jury trials and the presumption of innocence.
Removal of the presumption of innocence will please the pro-EU contingent, as it will bring Scots Law more into line with European practice, where the default position is that everything is forbidden unless there is an explicit statute to allow it.
Their loyalties do not lie with the SNP.
Translation: They had too much principle to participate in a cover up.
The EU so beloved by Sturgeon,also has a thing about audited accounts. As far as I can tell, the accounts of the EU have never been signed off. What does this tell you? Basically their is something rotten at the heart of both the SNP and The EU. Surely an independent Scotland should steer well clear of the Brussels Mafia.
John Main – Agreed, but the same European countries have a complete separation between politics and law. We do not have that in Scotland and so we leave the door open for political show-trials as we have just witnessed with Alex Salmond. Not edifying for the country and would assure we went from near top spot on world rankings to near bottom spot. Personally speaking, I would bag Humza Yousaf as he is an obvious idiot capable of great and lasting damage.
Mhairi Hunter should fuck off back to running her market stall and leave our taxpayers’money alone.
It’s not who votes that matters it’s who counts the votes said Stalin.
So how can we monitor the security of the count to ensure there’s no skullduggery?
The plan as I understand it, is to count the constituency votes on Fri 7th and the list votes Saturday 8th. That means more opportunity than usual – where the count normally goes on through the night.
And is the rumour I heard true – that the ballot boxes are to be transported over the border for “safe keeping” in the meantime ?
A lot has been learned by the billionaire class about fixing elections/postal votes etc in recent times – in particular
after the breakup of the USSR.
There’s a good case to be made that the trend towards digital methods of voting are, at very least, part of a process of undermining people’s willingness to participate in democracy and at worst are massively insecure – ie easy to rig/fix/distort the results.
I suspect the sudden surge of popularity of postal voting is also part of the deception.
Seemingly this angle on elections isn’t even on the radar – people seem to think the powers that be wouldn’t do that
or it’s too far fetched. Well I say think again. If it isn’t already this will soon be reality and indyref2 – were we foolish enough to agree to it will be an easy target.
Referendums are especially vulnerable and in my view should only happen as confirmatory people’s votes to affirm decisions on the constitution after the Scottish Parliament has voted for independence.
Ask yourselves this – do we have any reason to trust the Electoral Commission whose only office is in London ?
I think not.
Is anyone from Yes working on this ? Assume the worst I’d say but forget hoping for the best.
Let’s hope Sarwar has a big enough note book to keep up with the ever lengthening list of lies and corruption his SNP opponent is involved in.
The people of Glasgow Southside need to know the truth about the SNP fraudster Sturgeon.
She has lied to her Constituents.
She has lied to the people of Scotland.
She is a corrupt liar.
And if I were Sarwar, I would be keeping a close eye on what Rev Stu exposes.
This is no two bob blog,,, this is real deal Mr Sarwar.
Copy and paste and get it through every door in the Glasgow Southside
Constituency Mr Sarwar.
Glasgow Southside Constituency,,,
Vote Labour 1 and ALBA 2.
You know it makes sense.
With Sturgeon removed and the Unionusts greatly depleted, our road to Independence becomes so much smoother.
Something else Sturgeon failed to declare.
“Anger as £650m contract for SNP donor approved after Nicola Sturgeon meeting she failed to declare”
link to archive.is
Reason 863 of the why not vote SNP
They will of course give a complete false account of how it’s gone and despite an outcry from those on this site and a thin couple of articles in the MSM nothing will happen .After all in you have everyone in a position to stop you complicate in some part your scheme they can’t make a move
As ever I will ask the question what is to become of Scotland in the next 5 years of the SNP Alba list works I fear another 5 years of the country day to day running stagnating will turn people off the whole indie idea and add the inevitable demise of the SNP and Indies gone
In 3 or 4 years Alba will be tainted for not stopping the SNP
and actually advocating SNP .Looking forward to someone giving me a reason why this won’t be the case but have raised this three times now without as much as a insult
It must be very easy to be an anti-SNP Scottish political journalist these days.
You don’t have to dig very hard for dirt – as the party faithful serves it up, gift-wrapped to you.
Do we honestly want these people running Scotland? A minauge seems beyond them.
Galactically dim
still seems fair comment to me
Iain Lawson made a comment, which if I understood it correctly, that the Finance & Audit Committee members are legally liable for the accounts. It would appear that the Unlearned Cllr. is correct. They are more loyal to their personal freedom than the SNP.
Makes you wonder what the remaining committee members think they are doing. Now that Police Scotland is involved it’s probably too late to run away.
Government, of any kind, and religion of any kind, should have F**k all to do with the criminal justice system.
The judiciary should be completely independent.
If it’s not then we have something that no western, secular democracy should ever have.
This convenient sidelining of the rules of evidence, which has been happening bit by bit over the last 25 years, to placate whatever pressure group is flavour of the month, is disastrous for justice and leads, always, to miscarriages of justice.
Clear separation, with no exception, of the judiciary from government is absolutely required.
Socrates McSporran
The SNP couldn’t run a Minauge.
/
The old ones are the best.
Particularly apt in this case though I agree.
When it would be your turn to get money the biscuit tin would be empty.
The definition of Sturgeon’s Shock Troops, by Andrew Neil
The Crown Office….. now that they are “in crisis”, Mhairi Hunter can take over for a while. Hardly anyone will notice. Is Mhairi Hunter going to take-over from the Crown Office and deal with the Mallicious Prosecutions from now-on?
“The Crown Office, which is meant to be independent, has become the ‘lickspittle arm’ of the SNP Government, says Alistair Bonnington, former professor at Glasgow University’s School of Law. It operates ‘at the direct command of the cabal currently at the head of the Scottish Government’.
The Crown Office is in crisis. In a recent case involving the famous Glasgow Rangers football team it was forced to admit to a ‘malicious prosecution’ – legalese for proceeding with a prosecution even though you’ve been advised that you don’t have enough evidence to secure a conviction.
It’s already had to pay out over £20million in compensation and legal fees. The final bill could be close to £100million.
Nobody has been sacked. Nobody has resigned. Perhaps becoming the legal shock troops of the Sturgeon Government in its dealings with the Salmond insurrection is a way to ensure survival.”
Republicofscotland says:
4 April, 2021 at 5:31 pm
“Something else Sturgeon failed to declare.
“Anger as £650m contract for SNP donor approved after Nicola Sturgeon meeting she failed to declare”
link to archive.is ”
FFS how many times does she get to break the ministerial code? She’s as bad as Johnson. what’s the point of an independent Scotland that is as corrupt as WM?
Socrates…
“It must be very easy to be an anti-SNP Scottish political journalist these days.”
Oh, I disagree…
If you’re an “anti-SNP Scottish Journalist” your editor will have you on permanent Furlough, and the only way you’ll get anything in print is to set up on your own and publish it yourself – shortly to find yourself in court on trumped up charges.
However, the pro-SNP journalists in Scotland are coming out the woodwork!
You only need to compare what is published on this site, supported by documentation and reliable sources, versus the tosh the MSM produce and claim to be “news”.
The British Establishment and MSM will stop at nothing to keep the current SNP leadership in place.
What does that tell you?
Steve davison says:
4 April, 2021 at 5:33 pm
Maybe they are expetcting enough defections to give Alba the majority instead of SNP. Easier to get them in on an SNP ticket and then get them to cross the floor.
‘L’etat c’est moi’
This absolutely reeks of the most unselfconscious entitlement, arrogance and, frankly, stupidity. I wondered where all the Scotlab mouthbreathers went.
Hi John Main, read your comment about cancelling historic “Right to Roam” last year. What is this about, would you be able to post a link so I can read more about it? Thanks.
I had started to come round to the idea of voting SNP1 in May following the request by AS. However, the disgusting childish behaviour of Sturgeon appears to be on the increase and I am rapidly going full circle to the point where I cannot vote for her stinking corrupt party. In fact I am back to square 1 and will vote for their main opponent in the constituency.
AS has handed her a golden opportunity to win the election by pushing SNP1 and at the very least you would think that she would desist from the lies and smears she spouts against him. I wonder what the SNP polling would show without that Alba support. I suspect that, if she continues in the same vein, I will not be alone and many will find it impossible to hold their nose and vote for them come May.
Every time I see a Mhairi Hunter tweet I think to myself “this is a one-off, no-one can be this deluded and dumb”
…..and then she surpasses herself in the very next tweet, and so on, and so on
I’ve believed P Murrel is a Brit and has been effectively working for said Brits for the last 10 years. Nothing about the AS attack, this financial question OR HAVING A REFERENDUM WITH ZERO VOTER ID SECURITY IN 2014 has changed that.
@Elmac 6.00pm
I think there are a significant number of people who agree with you. I can’t bring myself to vote for Robertson in Edinburgh Central. I *might* have changed my mind after the Alba launch and Alex’s magnanimous gesture to co-operate with the SNP, but the Sturgeonista loyal slapping his hand away is the last straw.
It’d be great to have a pro-indy super-majority, but I sure as hell don’t want to see Sturgeon (whether with the Greens or not) having a majority at Holyrood. Alba voters should be smart enough to surgically remove Robertson, Sturgeon and Swinney at least.
Hmm, so anybody in the SNP who so much as queries the leadership will be subjected to smears and false allegations. Sounds familiar looking back at the people who have been disappeared, Chinese Communist Party style.
And similar to them, being a party member entails absolute loyalty, praise for the leader and her consort, and never, ever question them. The supreme leader and the inner cadre are always right, keep quiet, don’t rock the boat and keep up the contributions.
Stop all the paranoia – just vote SNP 1 and ALBA 2 like AS asked – if HE can hold his nose for indy then you can too.
@Steven Elliott
I’ll vote for who I decide to thanks very much. AS can advise all he wants, but people earn my vote, they don’t get given it by default or because the leader of the party I’m a founder member of says I should.
It’ll be a cold day in hell before I vote for Angus Robertson.
I know there are good people in the SNP still but stuff like this must surely make them reconsider their position? No one can honestly think this makes them look anything but bitter and paranoid?
There was someone who used to post here until the last year or so, a prolific poster and repeat flouncer who went to WGD in a fit of pique and now spends what seems most of their retirement in long-winded posts about how great Nicola is.
The first time I felt they were not quite the full shilling was when they posted ‘if you are not with us you are against us’ in reply to some mild criticism of the SNP lack of visible strategy.
That mindset is now front and centre with the most vocal SNP supporters and it should worry the leadership a great deal as they profess to be trying to recruit the soft Nos. That they cut off people who were shoulder to shoulder with them and treat with such disdain is alarming. The disappointment when their idol does not deliver and is shown to have feet of clay will destroy some of them.
We have tried to point out that NS is not all that and many within the SNP have given the leadership every chance to come clean and be truthful but to no avail.
You can only do so much.
“So what Hunter is saying there is that the SNP chose three of its own members to serve on its own finance committee, yet they could not be allowed to carry out their duties because their loyalties did not lie with the party.
In which case, a reasonable observer might very well ask”
Well this reasonable observer would ask “What do you mean by ‘the SNP’? Do you really mean they were not ‘loyal’ to Sturgeon and hubby? And is loyalty to NS & co compatible with loyalty to the SNP?”
That’s the real question – for this observer.
When the root and branch are justifying blocking the audit committee from auditing the accounts, it’s pretty obvious the entire party is rotten to the core.
You couldn’t make this stuff up.
AndyMcAngry at 4.35 said:
“Government, of any kind, and religion of any kind, should have F**k all to do with the criminal justice system.
The judiciary should be completely independent.
If it’s not then we have something that no western, secular democracy should ever have.
This convenient sidelining of the rules of evidence, which has been happening bit by bit over the last 25 years, to placate whatever pressure group is flavour of the month, is disastrous for justice and leads, always, to miscarriages of justice.
Clear separation, with no exception, of the judiciary from government is absolutely required.”
Seems that this requirement is the fundamental bedrock of a civil society, and comes even before political independence, whuch without the separation of powers risks totalitarianism.
Fixing this aspect of Scottish Law appears to be outside the power of Scottish society, and even beyond the UK political system. So, an appeal to the Queen would seem to be in order.
Here is a good example of the recipe needed;
link to electricscotland.com
Anyone fancy a go?
STEVEN ELLIOTT says:
4 April, 2021 at 6:14 pm
Stop all the paranoia – just vote SNP 1 and ALBA 2 like AS asked – if HE can hold his nose for indy then you can too.
Maybe he can hold his nose. But I can’t. The stench of corruption and abuse of power is off the scale. I can’t vote for that. I’ve literally had enough now. I want them gone. All of them.
Sturgeon doesn’t want to be in the position of being the majority Party in a Holyrood Supermajority.
She wants a cosy minority position with no pressure regarding Independence.
Useful Idiots like Hunter are working to order to deliver that plan
Piss her off big style and Vote SNP1/Alba2. Leave her nowhere to hide.
In Edinburgh Central I think a vote for Bonnie Prince Bob is an acceptable exception. That is to good a chance to miss and Robertson deserves it!
Scotland so lucky to have Westminster rule and all that vaccine?
Today’s Covid figures for Germany in the EU with few vaccines has 1,700 new cases and 3 Deaths.
BojoLand with a sea of vaccine and the most brilliant government ever-
2,300 new cases and 10 deaths?
The German population is 15 million larger and 50,000 fewer Covid Deaths than the U.K. over the last year.
PS The German economy is far stronger that the U.K. pensions and wages very much higher.
If we have to be suppressed by another nation, can you make it today’s German Government?
Steven Elliott @ 6.14pm
The danger of this is that Sturgeon’s SNP achieve a majority by themselves. Unless some of them subsequently jump ship to Alba we will be looking at 5 more years of total control by this lying charlatan and the likliehood that she will further corrupt and destroy any decency left in the organs of government.
Be careful what you wish for. Virtually any outcome is preferable to an SNP only majority.
Although siphoning off nearly £600k is morally despicable, if true, does anyone (who speaks legalese preferably) know if there has actually been a law broken? And if so, which?
At worst I suspect this may just turn out be another case of ‘misleading’, which the SNP don’t appear to be held accountable for and large parts of their membership tolerate stoically.
Someone on the comments here said last week (before the Alba launch), that we should vote SNP to spite the SNP leadership and deliver a majority.
Alba has given me a reason to vote SNP which the SNP itself has not done. The levels of Labour-like entitlement are astonishing, considering they’ve developed in less than six years. My candidate is endorsed by Joanna Cherry, so I’m able to vote SNP1/Alba2.
But I certainly couldn’t blame anyone who doesn’t feel the same way about their candidate.
Effigy.
Germany counts Covid deaths completely different to Uk. Anyone tested positive for Covid who dies within 28 days is on the UK death count.,even if you were run over by a bus. The Germans on the other hand only count Covid as the cause of death where there are no comorbidities. It’s not surprising that their figures are so low. For some strange reason the UK decided to make it almost impossible to die of anything else but Covid.
With all this talk of Park of Keir and the Durieshill development being given the nod for a donation, I am beginning to wonder about the Gillies Hill decision.
Gillies Hill is reputed to have played a part in the Battle of Bannockburn as the Sma’ Folk coming over the hill, thinking the battle was over, demoralised the English who thought it was reinforcements.
Unfortunately Gillies Hill has been quarried and although the quarry was ‘dead’ a local company has asked to reopen it.
he decision has been knocked back by Stirling Council a couple of times.
Now the quarry folk have appealed to the Scot gov who appoint a ‘reporter’ to look at the case.
No-one on this site will be surprised to learn the the ‘reporter’ has given the quarry the ‘go-ahead’ and a large part of the hill will now be removed, including ancient woodland, footpaths, nature sites and 5 Giant redwood trees all over 150 years old. There will also be a huge number of massive lorries winding through local streets all day long.
I wonder how big the brown envelope was?
Okay, time to recapitulate…
Clearly holding your nose and voting SNP 1 is going to be difficult for a lot of people.
Maybe holding your nose, wearing a blindfold, and plugging your ears is an option…
Or, for those who can’t unsee what they have seen in regards to the Salmond stitch-up, GRA, the great fraud, and much else, there’s my personal preference… the flotation tank. This assumes postal voting, of course.
Apparently there’s a concoction of mushrooms and herbs that South American tribes use in some sort of coming-of-age ritual, and it completely wipes your memory… I am waiting on someone getting back to me and will keep you all posted on that option.
We can do this — SNP 1, Alba 2.
@Fred says:
4 April, 2021 at 6:36 pm
“Although siphoning off nearly £600k is morally despicable, if true, does anyone (who speaks legalese preferably) know if there has actually been a law broken? And if so, which?”
I’ll give you an unrelated example, since I do not know the true facts regarding the £600,000 and will not comment on it.
I set up a GoFundMe page, saying that I have terminal cancer, and would like to complete my bucket list. You send me £100.
Two months down the line I am exposed as a liar, am perfectly healthy, and have used the money to buy a new car. That is fraud by false representation.
The fraud act 2006 which codifies offences such as fraud by false representation and is a development of the earlier theft act does not apply to Scotland.
However there is a common law offence of fraud in Scotland along with offences of uttering and embezzlement.
Is it true she has been seeing a psychiatrist. What was the diagnosis?
SNP 1 ALBA 2 gets us 2 votes for one position. Strange maths for a ‘super majority’. No Indyref2 will be won on this basis. The only option is PROPERLY defeat Sturgeon and rebuild a proper Indy party with credibility.
Please tell me I am not paying this arse wipes wages out of my Taxes ,
Yet another possible case of fraud if I am not mistaken
Receiving money under false pretences
Aye you can’t beat quality eh if this is the quality of SNP reps then they can fkn beat it pronto
Off topic but surprised this isn’t getting more publicity
Nicola Sturgeon: The murky end to the SNP chief’s legal career
from Express today
link to archive.vn
Prasad says:
4 April, 2021 at 7:16 pm
“Off topic but surprised this isn’t getting more publicity
Nicola Sturgeon: The murky end to the SNP chief’s legal career
from Express today
link to archive.vn”
Article says “although this episode has never been revealed before.”
Isn’t this the same case we were reading about a couple of weeks ago?
Just for accuracy’s sake (you never know who’s reading…), section 8 of the 2006 Fraud act covers the whole of the UK. It relates to the use of an ‘article’ in a fraudulent act where ‘article’ may include ‘program or data’. I’m thinking its purpose may be to close a potential loophole where a program or some data (or a computer server) may be located in Scotlandshire.
Re the Finance Com., members. As a company director, I believe the phrase is”Jointly and severally responsible.” If a company director, even if you do no wrong, yet someone else pauchles the firm’s assets. You, as a director are as responsible as the culprit. As one member was and I believe is, a company director, another is an accountant, and the third obviously knew the liability yawning like a very deep pit before them, they had no option, except to resign. What surprises me, is that there remain members of said committee. I believe that the same responsibilities, and liabilities extend to those remaining apointees. Interesting position to be in when the bovine effluvia hits the rotating air circulator?
@Prasad
That story was touted around here from a blog a couple of weeks ago. Interesting that the Express has dug a bit deeper and has a statement from the woman who complained.
As I recall some suggested it might be the story Jackie Baillie said had been spiked in favour of the AS leak to Daily Record. While it does seem verified now I have a feeling the spiked story would have been much bigger.
Nevertheless, the drip drip drip of negative press is now starting and even the Herald and the National can’t suppress everything.
“When the root and branch are justifying blocking the audit committee from auditing the accounts, it’s pretty obvious the entire party is rotten to the core.
You couldn’t make this stuff up.”
Well, you just did!
The root and branch are absolutely NOT justifying blocking the audit committee, only an individual idiot or two, and the party is NOT rotten to the core, just the leadership/management. Many of us are not at all happy with our ‘dear leaders’, and you certainly don’t get to tar us all with that bloody brush! If you want to make a point, then make it, don’t invent it.
@Prasad
Reposted without the name that seems to put posts into moderation
That story was touted around here from a blog a couple of weeks ago. Interesting that the Express has dug a bit deeper and has a statement from the woman who complained.
As I recall some suggested it might be the story JB said had been spiked in favour of the AS leak to Daily Record. While it does seem verified now I have a feeling the spiked story would have been much bigger.
Nevertheless, the drip drip drip of negative press is now starting and even the Herald and the National can’t suppress everything
link to archive.vn
Counterintuitive it may seem, but if you want to hurt Nicola Sturgeon, vote :
SNP 1, ALBA 2
STEVEN ELLIOTT says:
4 April, 2021 at 6:05 pm
“I’ve believed P Murrel is a Brit and has been effectively working for said Brits for the last 10 years. Nothing about the AS attack, this financial question OR HAVING A REFERENDUM WITH ZERO VOTER ID SECURITY IN 2014 has changed that.”
No elections in the UK have voter ID security for the simple reason that ID is not a legal requirement in the UK – and neither should it be. The amount of personation at polling stations is so small it’s not worth making everyone give up their right not to have to have ID.
Charles Hodges at 4.42.Excellent comment
WeeChid says:
4 April, 2021 at 7:19 pm
‘Isn’t this the same case we were reading about a couple of weeks ago?’
Yes but it has some quotes from the person involved which i think is new and relevant. I don’t think the older one was ever published in a newspaper.
This is the older one which mentions the Sheriff Pasportnikov connection
link to archive.vn
link to archive.vn
I just find the similarities between the Labour Party prior to their demise in Scotland and the SNP historically quite striking.
Firstly is/was their convoluted weaselling use of language to invariably argue that black is white and
secondly is/was the corrupt practice of granting political favours as a party revenue stream.
This is just not what the Greeks had in mind. At all.
It is surely Kafkaesque that the SNP’s own audit committee is denied access to the SNP accounts they’re meant to audit, by the SNP.
That’s almost as farcical as Leslie Evans being kept in office and put in charge of all the evidence which documents her own wrongdoing.
It must such a joy to work for the omnipotent SNP when you can suppress awkward evidence which might compromise your dishonesty, and prevent a Parliamentary Inquiry seeing it, and you can also refuse to open the accounts which have an awkward £600k missing, and prevent an Account Auditing Committee from seeing them. The Italian Mafia must be jealous and taking notes on how to get away with it.
Is actually possible for the SNP Leadership to look any more crooked and corrupt than they currently do? Are they utterly blind? Unburdened by any conscience whatsoever? Or have they paddled so far up Shit Creek Canal the only thing worse than looking this guilty is actually being this guilty?
It truly beggars belief. How stupid must they be to imagine this is going to end well, yet they just keep digging.
If this farce does blow up in their faces and injures the Scottish Independence cause, I truly, truly wouldn’t want to be Nicola Sturgeon.
Could it be that Ms Munter knows where the money is/has gone and her tweet is designed to bolster a plea of diminished responsibility should she need it in the near future?
Interesting that uk wide , labour are still falling further and further behind , and the question is being asked about Sarwars boss……
What is the point of Keir Starmer? After a year, we still don’t know
The tepid Labour leader, once so lauded, has failed to offer anything to vote for. No wonder his poll ratings are plunging
It’s telling that Starmer’s tenure has inspired the term “continuity Milibandism”, a reference to the plodding leadership of Ed Miliband that preferred The Thick of It-style stunts over building grassroots support. Perhaps there is no more damning indictment of Starmer’s first year failures: he can’t even inspire his own slogan.
link to theguardian.com
Fungi guy
Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps the remaining committee members are like deer caught in headlights or perhaps they don’t grasp the severity of their situation. If they come with the endorsement of Mhairi Hunter then the latter seems more likely.
@Prasad – re your link to the Express article.
It looks as if the Rev, very carefully did not fall into a trap regarding that story.
The Express appear to have located the original complainer, who no longer has all the paperwork.
The Express state clearly that the Law Society did not uphold the complaint.
So, its only half proved at best.
What is interesting is there are now 3 Scandals in the MSM today with regards Nicla and the SNP.
Death by a thousand cuts perchance (figure of speach).
@ Silver Darling re Nicla Loyalists / WGDrs… what guts me is the ones who said, ‘I’ll reserve judgement until the result of the Court Case’, and now that has been and passed, they moved the goal posts to, ‘well he admitted he’d been inappropriate’. Agghhh. Some of them used to come across as fair minded and intelligent.
Hey ho. Best advice I got was to leave them be, get on with the real issues. And honestly, they’ve dug themselves so deep into their ‘Nicla can do no wrong’ trenches, that I think it will be decades – and a complete change in the political landscape – before they will change their script.
And lastly, there are still folk saying/arguing it was the Britnats and others, or Nicla and co are just thick and /or corrupt.
It really doesn’t matter, if the Britnats didn’t instigate this, they would be negligent in their duty, if they didn’t at the very least jump on the bandwagon and assist where possible. It doesn’t matter. What matters is,
Zero progress towards Indy
Forced out of Europe against our will, mandates left on the shelf
Massive economic damage as a result
Deeply controvertial, irregular financial record keeping and accountancy practices – which no formal Political party – particularly one representing Indy can afford – it brings the movement into disrepute
The whole Alex Salmond scandal
There was a time to focus on all of that, in order to try and open up the eyes of other yes supporters, for the need for a clear out in the SNP or a new party.
Now we have a new party – once real policy and progress on Indy is on the table, the naysayers will just fade.
Anyway – SNP support in the polls is in the high 40’s%. Nicla and the MSM have 1 month in which to dent it enough to scupper the supermajority.
And we have 1 month to prevent that. For those saying the SNP is beyond the pale and they cannot in good conscience vote for them.
I get it. Swinney is in my constituency. The only reasons I can do it is to ensure the Max the Yes plan works, and because Alex (after all he has been through at their hands) has asked. I don’t think I could do it for anyone else.
Notwithstanding that, I cannot and will not be active in any way to assist Swinney getting elected. He can win or lose on his own.
I will however assist another local SNP Contituency Candidate – one of the good guys. He’s going to need all the help he can get – once Nicla goes full tonto.
Xaracen “Many of us are not at all happy with our ‘dear leaders’, and you certainly don’t get to tar us all with that bloody brush!”
If you’re as unhappy as you suggest, why do you continue to choose to have them as leaders?
Croydon labour council borrowed £13 million from scottish taxpayers
Croydon Council borrowed £13million from Scottish taxpayers at the height of the pandemic paying almost double the interest rate to secure the investment.
The detail of the loan arrangement only emerged after concerns were raised by Midlothian Council after the London authority declared bankruptcy.
As part of the deal Croydon agreed to pay 1.85 per cent in interest payments per annum for the two-and- a-half year loan period which would have seen the London council pay back an ‘attractive’ £600,000 return on the Scottish council’s investment.
A meeting of Labour run Midlothian Council’s audit committee was told that the money was invested in Croydon Council in April at the height of the pandemic when the south London council’s finances were beginning to unravel.
Now Midlothian have called in external auditors Ernst and Young to carry out a “wide-scope review” of its treasury management policy following questions about its investment in Croydon.
Scottish Conservative Midlothian group leader Peter Smaill said: “The public will be furious that this large deposit was given to a council who had racked up massive debts at a time when our own communities, businesses and residents need every penny of support
link to thorntonheathchronicle.co.uk
Starmer leads Labour as he is a Sir and looks like a Tory
and abstained from voting on anything that might upset the Tories.
He is trying to be the new New Labour, a photo copy of the Tory party.
With people like Abbott, Nandi and Thorburn nominated as leading lights
for the last 10 years they will all be sitting in the dark for the next 10 years.
As the Rev pointed out, Labour have promised to close down the House of Lords
since 1910 and Keir isn’t going to shut his own pension plan.
Had the SNP not been offering lucrative political careers this past decade and more, these people would surely have been in their rightful home, Scottish Labour. Nationalists they are not, and they’ve proved it beyond all doubt.
“Exactly what sort of cack-handed two-bob clown show is forgetful chief executive Peter Murrell running for his six-figure salary?”
Embezzling £600,000 of “ring fenced” independence supporters’ donations, that is what.
As Craig Murray rightly said, the only thing preventing Murrell from going to jail is the utterly corrupt James Wolffe, Lord Advocate of Scotland.
Both of them must be in jailed, along with the rest of the SNP Mafia.
@ effigy.
Aye , uk labour , the party that sent £1.5 billion back down to london casue they coudnae spend it on anything and £13 million to their corrupt cronies in croydon.
I will be doing everything i possibly can to keep the labour party out at any and every level of governance.
Looking at The Times poll today, it would appear that the SNP are heading for a majority, on their own – at the moment…
A tactic for the Pro-Indy movement could be to campaign for removal of four or five SNP candidates, who are not in favour.
Edinburgh Central… Here’s an idea. Pro-Indy voters, whose surname starts with a letter between A and L, vote for Bonny Prince Bob.
Pro-Indy voters, whose surname starts with a letter between M and Z vote for the Tory candidate. If that’s too much to ask, just ease your conscience by voting for Bonny Prince Bob. Might save his deposit, as well as keeping Mr Dempsie out.
Perthshire North: the only candidate that can beat Swinney is Murdo Fraser. He was slightly more than 3,000 behind Swinney in 2016 –
Swinney 16,526 – 48.6% – Decrease 12.3%
Fraser 13,190 – 38.8% – Increase 12.5%
Looks like Swinney attracted Tory voters in 2016.
Would it be nice to actually let Murdo win an election before he retires?
Glasgow Southside could be number 3 away. Other readers could probably come up with another couple of candidates who have been ‘soft’ on independence or are rather ‘wokey’.
It’s a pity Martin Keatings didn’t stand as an independent in Dunfermline.
link to bbc.co.uk
Onnyhoo, you may find the info at this link useful.
link to en.wikipedia.org
“The money CAN’T be both ringfenced and woven through the party’s accounts. It can only be one or the other.”
Its neither ringfenced, nor woven through – it has been embezzled by Murrell and Sturgeon.
This could all be put to bed, if Murrell simply showed where the money was.
The fact that he doesn’t and indeed invents 3 possible locations for the money. Means that there is fraud going on. If it’s there then telling the truth is simple. Inventing the truth becomes a plate of spaghetti.
N. Holmes says,
“Mhairi Hunter is the apparatchik’s apparatchik. No capacity for any independent thought, blindly, devotedly loyal to the party line, oblivious and impervious to anything outside her political bubble. Sturgeon and Murrell’s ideal employee.”
The likes of her will show solidarity to Sturgeon and Murrell by going to jail with them.
Imbeciles indeed.
Brian dtt, think Mr Keatings is standing as an Independent in the Fife List, there is a concern he could be made personally bankrupt due to costs incurred with the appeal, his hope was that he would get elected on the list and then the court decision that it was only parliamentarians who could raise a court case over who could hold a referendum would be annulled.
So any list voters in Fife , please Consider voting for martin, its the least he deserves.
“FFS how many times does she get to break the ministerial code? She’s as bad as Johnson. what’s the point of an independent Scotland that is as corrupt as WM?”
Weechid @5.47pm.
Sturgeon won’t always be the FM of Scotland, yes they’ll always be a certain amount of corruption at Holyrood, as there is in every parliament in every country around the globe. Independence will allow us to cut out a level of corruption at Westminster which affects Scotland, then we can focus on minimising it at Holyrood.
silverdarling said:
As I recall some suggested it might be the story Jackie Baillie said had been spiked in favour of the AS leak to Daily Record. While it does seem verified now I have a feeling the spiked story would have been much bigger.
I thought the spiked article was an allegation about Nicola and a French ambassadors wife?
Republicofscotland says,
“Crooked imbeciles hits the mark I think, as for slagging off SNP party officials, no action, zero, nil, nada, was taken when Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine were abused on a daily basis on social media.”
Unless they too are imbeciles, why are Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine still in the SNP?
The cash was needed for Ruddick and Murrell’s inflated salaries. It really is that simple.
There will never be any official legal action against Murrell or Bettie. The country is too corrupt.
@Daisy Walker
I don’t think there is anything that NS can do that would change their minds now. It is a belief system.
However, I think the one thing we can be sure of is that Nicola Sturgeon does not pay attention to her diary and note keeping and it may yet be her downfall!
Thanks Beaker and Stephen for your answers. I’m just thinking that in order to evade any direct accusation of fraud they could claim that Indyref2 is only possible through the mechanism of a wholly functioning and financially sound SNP. By then diverting funds to the party they can still maintain that the funds are being used to support this campaign, albeit slightly more indirectly. What do you think?
I know Tom Gordon has come in for a battering here recently, but he does make a good point in that Ruth Davidson did the same thing with their campaign funds a few years ago, which may explain why the Scottish Conservatives, uncharacteristically, have refrained from outright condemnation on this.
Ms Hunter is all over the place on Twitter today and looking a bit foolish and desperate. She now says she “couldn’t care less” where the money is.
This is all getting very messy indeed.
As I understand it, to qualify as fraud it would need to have been raised with the intention of diverting it elsewhere. In other words, I think there would need to be fraudulent intent from the start.
The most likely explanation is that the SNP finances were so bad (probably as a consequence of Sturgeon and her failures resulting in a collapse in membership) that they were left with little choice but to dip into the indyref fund in order to meet running costs.
Ethically, I don’t think that excuses anyone and it’s probably just as bad. Certainly it’s dishonest and the continuing refusal to come clean just makes it worse and worse.
Once the general SNP public sees her for what she is, the SNP is finished. That day will come. Maybe this is it.
Scott Martin was the Director of Yes Scotland Ltd – which shut down operations in 2019. 0 money in the kitty.
With it being a Ltd operation Directors took full responsibility for the submitting of accounts.
Scott Martin signed off on it as Director.
Since Yes Scotland Ltd was a subsiduary of SNP – but Yes Scotland Ltd carried out the initial crowdfunding of the now missing money – it looks as if the first person Police Scotland would be looking to speak to would be Scott Martin.
I’m sure he will be able to produce the accounts that show exactly how much money was raised, what legitimate expences were incurred and paid for, and on what date, and into which account the money was transfered… and on whose authority.
And he would appear to be on a very sticky wicket if he cannot answer those things – since he had a legal responsibility to keep records of same.
Now here’s a question – was Pete Wishart not involved in the operating/creation of Yes Scotland Ltd? somewhere along the line.
STEVEN ELLIOTT says,
“Stop all the paranoia – just vote SNP 1 and ALBA 2 like AS asked – if HE can hold his nose for indy then you can too.”
Alex Salmond is obviously not going to single out any SNP candidates not to vote for.
That is where we, the people, need to use our own initiative.
Vote tactically against Sturgeon in Glasgow Southside.
Vote tactically against Swinney in his constituency.
Vote tactically for the candidate most likely to beat Robertson.
The most obnoxious of them have to be actively voted out, not by abstaining or spoiling the ballot but by voting tactically for the candidate most likely to unseat them.
In Glasgow Southside, Sturgeon can be unseated without the loss of an SNP seat.
In Swinney’s constituency if a unionist wins the seat, then their chances of a list MSP will go down.
So I don’t think ALBA will be affected. Instead of competing with the unionist list vote, it will be competing with the SNP list vote.
I am sure we will get some very good calculations by the Rev. Stuart Campbell nearer the election to help us make up our minds.
The sad thing is Nicola and friends are becoming like Teflon nothing sticks it frightening. Scotland deserves better but a lot of the population worship her and wouldn’t see anything is wrong.
Several reports in the media that Nicola Sturgeon is unhappy with the low rate of convictions in rape cases.
Comment made on the requirement for corroboration from two sources to secure a conviction.
Comment also made on the need for 15 members of the jury.
We also don’t like the not proven verdict.
This has been spoken about before the low rate of conviction in rape cases can very often be because the accused is innocent.
The need for corroboration is a great safeguard in our legal system. Some countries don’t have such a safeguard I believe they are called third world countries.
15 jury members is a good idea it allows the jury to be reduced to I think 12 members in the event of sickness etc.
Not proven verdicts are actually just that. When you are charged with a crime the case against you is proven by the prosecution or not proven. The not guilty verdict is the odd verdict as I know of many people found not guilty who were certainly guilty. The correct verdict should have been not proven.
This is a very dangerous game Sturgeon is playing our legal system work well, most of the time, if it’s not broken don’t fix it.
Very many young men would need to stay at home at the weekend if she gets her way with this.
Fred,
If you were to choose to charge with embezzlement then you would have to show that there was a felonious appropriation of property without the consent of the owner such that there was no restoration of the said property at the appointed time or that there was no account given of the status of the property to the owner.
Ignore Kcor. You all know what he is!
@Patrick Roden 8.23 pm
If it was a story about her private life that would indeed suggest it was much bigger than the short legal career that ended on a sour note.
I think she did a puff-piece interview 2 or 3 years ago when these rumours started to surface where she said she was aware of speculation but that her private life was far less exciting than people suggested. I can’t remember which paper it was for – maybe that was to stave off stories. Anyway, the rumours don’t seem to be going away.
If you feel SNP leadership has suppressed independence for the last 10 years
how can you wish for a unionist to take an SNP seat when the London parties
have been doing it for over 300 years.
It’s the lesser evil that fits Alex plans for the future!
“Unless they too are imbeciles, why are Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine still in the SNP?”
Kcor @8.25pm.
Maybe both of them believe they can make some of slight difference on the inside, at least I’d like to think that.
Hatuey says:
4 April, 2021 at 8:32 pm
As I understand it, to qualify as fraud it would need to have been raised with the intention of diverting it elsewhere. In other words, I think there would need to be fraudulent intent from the start.
I don’t think this is correct Hatuey. It would mean that as long as you only diverted the money at the last minute – you would get off with the crime. Its not a defence strategy I’ve ever heard of – though it does of course get used when pleading for a lesser sentence of mitigating circumstances once found guilty.
The crime appears to have been complete when they knowingly used it for a purpose other than the fundraiser said it was to be used for. The fact that they never started out like that, or that the money was used for a good cause, is cold comfort to those who contributed, and there’s nothing to show for it.
The problem they face, is there are a lot of people out their, with hobbies and clubs, in addition to businesses large and small – and they are fully aware – you keep it very, very honest and transparent when you are dealing with other peoples’ money. You don’t need to do anything fancy with it – just keep it safe, and count it properly, and show folks the records.
Nicola seems less worried about a close friend lying in a rape trial. Perhaps such cases are undermined by people who were not in the building on the night they claim a rape took place deserve to be prosecuted to maintain the integrity of such trials and the credibility of such charges.
@Patrick Roden
Here it is. Not that long ago in fact.
NICOLA Sturgeon yesterday rubbished claims she’s living an “exotic double life” amid a torrent of gossip about her in high circles.
link to archive.is
Police: Where is the “ring fenced” £600,000?
Murrell: It is woven into the accounts.
Police: Unweave it from the accounts here and now.
It would not be at all difficult to trace the receipt of the money into the SNP’s bank accounts.
It would then be easy for an accountant to analyse all the outgoings from those bank accounts to find out where it went:
My guess is:
1. To pay for Sturgeon’s super injunctions.
2. To fill Murrell and Ruddick’s trousers.
3. To pay lawyers to defend the crimes of SNP criminals.
There wouldn’t be much of the £600,000 left to weave into the accounts.
Jason – Very many young men would need to stay at home at the weekend if she gets her way with this.
Feature, not bug.
Never underestimate the importance of malice and humiliation in woke politics. If it seems like a (Judith) Butlerian jihad against confident, heterosexual, infuriatingly normal young men by bitter shrews who were never considered desirable, it’s because it is.
“There will never be any official legal action against Murrell or Bettie. The country is too corrupt.”
Sadly I believe that to be the most likely outcome, when you take into account the major players in this, Humza Yousaf, the Lord Advocate, the corrupt Crown Office and the Chief Constable of Police Scotland.
There is no doubt the Murrell`s` will have a plan to explain this, but how??
Republicofscotland says:
4 April, 2021 at 8:50 pm
“There will never be any official legal action against Murrell or Bettie. The country is too corrupt.”
Sadly I believe that to be the most likely outcome, when you take into account the major players in this, Humza Yousaf, the Lord Advocate, the corrupt Crown Office and the Chief Constable of Police Scotland.-It will take completely new management to prise NS hands off the levers of power to uncover the mess.
Republic of Soctland @ 8.42
I can’t speak for Joan McAlpine but Joanna Cherry has announced recently that she is ill and having a break from politics for the time being. She has asked us to respect her privacy at this time and basically ignore her.
After having received endless harassment, humiliation from her own party, death threats and a ‘corrective r*pe threat she is understandably in need of some down time.
We all know she is a supporter of Alex and who knows what she might decide in weeks to come if she picks up the threads of her political career.
Personally I would love to see her still involved in Scottish politics and hopefully up here but sometimes life deals you a hand that has massive consequences and we shall have to wait and see what she does.
I wish her well and thank her for all she has done on our behalf to date.
The woke mantra is embedded deeply within the SNP, that is why women like Cherry and McAlpine wont desert the sinking ship.
The big issues of today are not nationalism and self determination, but rather identity politics and gender issues which contain an historic grievance about the position of men in society……no one seems to understand human nature anymore or genetic profiling. We tinker with these things at our peril.
I’m beginning to think that we have moved to far from the norm to make Nationalism work and we should dismantle the whole devolution edifice to allow time to reconstruct a free workable society.
Lunatics in charge of the asylum springs to mind.
“It will take completely new management to prise NS hands off the levers of power to uncover the mess.”
Dropthevipers.
Sturgeon according to the press, hasn’t committed to staying on as FM past 2026, I and many other would like her gone long before then, it will take some sort of major scandal like this to bring that to fruition, however she’s too well protected by the Crown Office, her Justice minister, and the Lord Advocate, Sturgeon knows where the bodies are buried so its unlikely we’ll see a major whistleblower anytime soon.
After Sturgeon and Murrell are gone, whose to say Angus Robertson won’t, if he becomes the SNP leader, and possibly FM, and one of his in the know trusted lieutenants, continues with this style of a corrupt charade, especially if all of Sturgeons major players still remain in their posts.
Republicofscotland says,
“Maybe both of them believe they can make some of slight difference on the inside, at least I’d like to think that.”
Fat lot of difference anyone has been able to make from the inside.
What has Chapman the new SNP treasurer achieved from the inside since he was elected to the post?
What have the newly elected NEC members achieved?
The SNP is broken beyond repair, unless somehow magically all its corrupt lying criminal leaders and the woke brigade can be trown out.
Cherry has been completely humiliated by the SNP.
After being sacked from the SNP front bench, she was expressing her happiness to be appointed to a Westminster committee.
Not much difference from Wishart wanting to be speaker of the House of Commons.
What exactly has she achieved to advance the cause of independence since she was elected an MP?
She should have used her legal expertise to confirm the sovereignty or not of Scots and delivered independence during 2016-2019, when independence was more achievable than ever before.
It was none of her business denying Brexit to the English who had democratically voted for it.
IMHO, she has leadership ambitions and therefore she is still inside the SNP despite having been humiliated by them.
She should have been one of the first MPs to join ALBA.
Meg merrilees @9.03pm.
Meg.
I can’t argue with that.
Where does all this leave Chapman, the new SNP treasurer?
Has he been shown the books?
If he has, why hasn’t he replied to the Rev. Stuart Campbell?
If he hasn’t, why has he not resigned?
If he has nothing to hide, even if for his own sake, he should speak out NOW.
Before the SNP Mafia get him.
Kcor says:
I am sure we will get some very good calculations by the Rev. Stuart Campbell nearer the election to help us make up our minds.
I don’t need to add anything to that utterly amazing sentence.
As I understand it, to qualify as fraud it would need to have been raised with the intention of diverting it elsewhere. In other words, I think there would need to be fraudulent intent from the start.
That’s what courts are there to decide, though I don’t have much faith in Scottish criminal justice under the Nu SNP.
I don’t think you can lawfully raise money for one purpose, then spend it on something else (while lying about it) either though. Seems like there would be a lot more misappropriated fundraisers if that wasn’t a crime.
Just been thinking, that magpie must be a right fat bastard…
Meg merrilees @9.03pm.
I can understand why Joanna Cherry needs some time away from all this, must be devastating after so many years of effort.
Republicofscotland says,
“Sturgeon according to the press, hasn’t committed to staying on as FM past 2026, I and many other would like her gone long before then, it will take some sort of major scandal like this to bring that to fruition, however she’s too well protected by the Crown Office, her Justice minister, and the Lord Advocate, Sturgeon knows where the bodies are buried so its unlikely we’ll see a major whistleblower anytime soon.”
She can be safely (without the loss of an SNP seat) and easily got rid off in five weeks:
By strongly advocating and campaigning for a tactical vote in favour of Sarwar in the Glasgow Southside constituency.
Funny only Sky News reporting Pro Independence Parties tipped for big majority in Scottish election poll.
Nothing on the State Broadcaster BBC or STV.
Kcor @9.15pm.
You make some good points there, of which I agree with, I think the main problem with change within the SNP is its now a personality led party. Sturgeon who we can now see is ruthless to the hilt, controls just about every aspect of the party/government from top to bottom, along with her husband they have shaped the SNP/government to fit their desires, and what direction they want to take Scotland in.
This makes it difficult for anyone within the party to make any significant headway, and with the majority of them putting party before country, a well connected whistleblower looks unlikely to step forward. Reelection and to get ones snout back into the gravy trough is the order of the day.
“She can be safely (without the loss of an SNP seat) and easily got rid off in five weeks:
By strongly advocating and campaigning for a tactical vote in favour of Sarwar in the Glasgow Southside constituency.”
Kcor @9.26pm
That is a possibility, and it would be beneficial to the indy movement if she lost her seat, so yes I agree with that plan of action. Sadly Sarwar is a somewhat toxic character and even though voters who want independence know that Sturgeon is holding Scottish independence back (present company excluded) the mentality is such that she will be reelected, and if for some reason she’s not, I think she’s also on the List vote as well.
But yes voting for Sarwar in her constituency seat is a good plan, if only the voting public would take it on board.
Republicofscotland says:
Sadly, globally, all Politicians with a few exceptions are toxic characters. When voting, your are asked to choose your poison, almost all of them are bad for you.
If you wouldn’t let them look after your teenage children, cat, dog, finances or buy a car from them then don’t vote for them.
Stephen says
would have to show that there was a felonious appropriation of property without the consent of the owner such that there was no restoration of the said property at the appointed time or that there was no account given of the status of the property to the owner
Stephen, would you not agree though that the ‘owner’ in this case has relinquished their ‘property’ in that they’ve given it away.
These donors freely consented and parted with their money.
Here’s one for you. When I deposit funds in my bank account I have no expectation that I will receive those exact notes and coins back. I know that those funds are then used to fund various loans and ventures that the bank has. I can really only complain at the point they don’t give me my money back and, i ‘dunno, maybe donors can only really legitimately complain when indyref2 starts and the funds are still not there.
If, however unlikely, the SNP received a £1million donation next month (fully replacing the £600k)and demonstrated that they had only shifted the indyref2 funds in the first place with the full knowledge they would receive this donation, would donors still have a right to complain that the funds went missing during the course of these transactions?
Kcor
PLEASE STOP maligning Joanna Cherry – SHE IS ILL.
Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt and in a few months, if she hasn’t given up politics by then and is thinking of returning to WM – where she is constantly jeered, maligned, humiliated, ignored and disrespected – maybe, just maybe then you can express your disappointment with her.
Do you forget that she alone challenged Boris Johnson and his prorogation of Parliament. She had the Prime Minister’s actions declared illegal and he was forced recall Parliament.
Just think about how huge that is for one minute. He lied to the Queen and he suspended Parliament to get his illegal Brexit plan through.
Joanna created a situation where we could have had a Government of National Security if only Jo Swinson had not refused to allow Corbyn to be PM for three weeks.
We could possibly have cancelled Brexit, or got a slightly better agreement, which means the Scotch Whisky association could still be raking in £105 million a year from Europe instead of £40 million as they now stand, the Scottish seafood businesses could still have been trading, cheese manufacturers could still be sending their product to Europe without having to pay £ 180.00 to certify £30.00 pounds worth of cheese and many other things to numerous to mention..
But no, her thick colleagues allowed Boris to get away with it and Scotland’s income is suffering hugely.
And for all this she gets death threats and ‘corrective r*pe threats’ and needs police protection.
Can you imagine for one minute the stress levels she has been experiencing. When you get to those sort of levels parts of your body start to malfunction, organs can stop working and you can have a health crisis so GIVE HER A BREAK.
Sorry, but I speak from personal experience and with me the stress levels required a transplant to resolve things so I feel a bit protective towards her.
Rant over.
Nicola Sturgeon: The murky end to the SNP chief’s legal career – EXCLUSIVE
link to archive.is
RepublicofScotland, if NS loses her seat, that might indicate fewer SNP votes on the list. In that case, it is not terribly likely that the SNP will get two list seats in Glasgow.
I suppose the question for former SNP voters/supporters in Glasgow Southside is what message will be sent if they elect someone as pro-union as Anas Sarwar.
@Meg merrilees at 9.56pm
Fully support your post on Joanna Cherry. A very clever QC and politician. Did ever so well in the Westminster Parliament and certainly an asset to the Independence cause.
Hope she recovers and comes back all good and healthy to take on the Establishment In Westminster again.
Fred
The SNP are the temporary custodians of the money. The money can therefore be seen to be the property of both the SNP and the donors until such time as the money is disbursed for the said purpose.
Also at any time after donation and before disbursement upon demand the SNP should be able to give an account of where the money is.
In addition the SNP would have to account for the money at regular intervals to HMRC and the electoral commission.
Ah well we will always have these “Proud Scots” to contend with.
And here is Jim Hood in all his glory in the House of Commons in 2014.
link to youtube.com
Alan Thoms says:
4 April, 2021 at 5:18 pm
The EU so beloved by Sturgeon,also has a thing about audited accounts. As far as I can tell, the accounts of the EU have never been signed off. What does this tell you? Basically their is something rotten at the heart of both the SNP and The EU. Surely an independent Scotland should steer well clear of the Brussels Mafia.
Answer
The SNP accounts are audited, that’s why we know that the 600k is not there.
The only people talking to Kcor are other Unionists or Idiots.
“If you’re as unhappy as you suggest, why do you continue to choose to have them as leaders?”
Who the hell are you to put your words in my mouth?
What makes you think I am choosing to have them as leaders?
People who should know better are equating the SNP as a single entity with all of the multitudes of people in it, who are not a single entity. They also equate Nicola Sturgeon as synonymous with the SNP again as a single entity, and are drawing conclusions about the many from just one or two particular individuals. They also, like you are doing, treat individual members like me as responsible for the actions of others in the party including the leadership, as if each of us had meaningful authority in such matters. That is obviously not a sensible position to hold, so people need to stop holding it.
We as members have been disenfranchised from the party by a small group at the top and it’s only fairly recently that a lot of us have really understood that, and we haven’t worked out what we can do about that, or how to rid ourselves of those rotten apples. Those rotten apples are not at all representative of the rest of us, and the need for sanctions against the rotten apples does not mandate sanctions against the whole party.
I as an individual am choosing the party because I believe it is still essential in getting us our independence, which is all I ever signed up for. It is also something that Alex Salmond himself agrees with, and as others have noted, given what he has suffered at the hands of certain people at the top of the party, if he can hold his nose and ask us to continue to vote for the SNP on the Constituency and Alba on the Regional votes for the good of Scotland, then we, including me, should do no less.
I don’t have any other answers myself, but I am hoping and expecting that the party can be saved, and that recent and imminent events including the aroused interest of the police might move things along in the right direction. I don’t know how it will pan out, and I hope it doesn’t take too long either way.
To think Hinter is a councillor in Glasgow. Her statements just beggar belief.
It is better to let people think you are an idiot than to take to Twitter and prove them right, really applies in this case.
It was not just about ‘seeing the books’ and ‘looking for the £600K. They had to sign off the budget for this year and wanted to verify where the money was coming from. Quite rightly, how can you commit to spend over £2M without knowing the income. They couldn’t tell the Finance committee the income they expected from their existing members for this year. The massive bank charges seemed to imply that the party were running an overdraft, but this could not be quantified.
No wonder the 3 members resigned! They were being stymied from doing their jobs.
Imbecilic crooks indeed!
If,like me,you want to see independence in the next few years and not a hundred years time ,the plan MUST be SNP1 and ALBA2.
Most of the SNP are good honest folks .I was a member since the 1950’s and left over a year ago only when a SNP minister acted like a Tory. Long story but the clown listened and followed civil service advice!
If those who suggest NOT voting for any constituent candidate or spoiling papers want independence ,well dream on for a hundred years. Get smart like Douglas Murray or perhaps just be smart.
Real question:
According to the polls we are on course for a supermajority;
So, then what, regards the current SNP leadership?
Do we ;
a. Bite the bullet and accept that we disagree with the majority of indy supporters and push forward on this wave for independence, with NS leading the SNP and AS in there for Alba?
or
b. to hell with that, we don’t want independence thanks to a corrupt SNP leadership. Let’s continue to battle to get them out at any cost?
Anyone?
(don’t bother calling me a troll, a unionist, an SNP cultist or whatever … I’m none of them.)
See Alba has 30% donation target.
From comments made, I understand folk have been donating direct to the party. Also good.
Alba – be good if you make an announcement to that affect.
Some of us watch the target as a moral boosting thing. And the trolls do the same.
Also be good to have some news from you each day.
@ Meg merrilees at 9:56 pm
Fully agree the SNP MPs have really bad towards Ms.Cherry. There is little point in saying who they are.
They know
Karma will bite them
?’s ?’s
Can the root of all the SNP’s disasters be traced to Murrell?
Including, who thought it prudent to allow a clear loony with a Twitter addiction as de facto party spokesthing?
Same thing re. cozy toes.
When I was a Branch Organizer every single Branch member could view the Branches books. They could ask to see them at every Branch meeting. In fact the appointed Treasurer would have to make a statement in relation to Branch funds at every meeting if my memory serves me right. Changed days it seems.
@ Xaracen – appreciate your comment and your commitment.
I know lots of very decent committed SNP members.
Breaks their hearts at what appears to be going on. But its been their political home for so long, asking them to abandon it is a big ask.
Thank goodness for Alba – bridging the gap, and getting Indy back into play.
If Alex can see the bigger picture – no excuse for me not to do the same. Country first.
Stephen, thanks. Very quickly, yes i’m completely on board with that and from an entirely moralistic standpoint that is exactly what should happen; however, and i know i’m appearing difficult, but i’ve not yet been convinced that anything they’ve done is strictly illegal. Not because i think i know better, but because i’ve not yet seen a contribution from someone who is a professional in that field and who can directly demonstrate it to me.
I guess i’m just preparing myself for the inevitable fish getting off the hook scenario, which is sure to follow.
Alan Thoms says on 4 April, 2021 at 5:18 pm:
“The EU so beloved by Sturgeon, also has a thing about audited accounts. As far as I can tell, the accounts of the EU have never been signed off. What does this tell you? Basically their is something rotten at the heart of both the SNP and The EU. Surely an independent Scotland should steer well clear of the Brussels Mafia.”
This is another one of those arguments for *AFTER* we take back our independence. The whole point of taking back our right of self-determination is so we can make all our own decisions without outside interference such as that guaranteed by London.
Any attempt to raise these sort of debates before we achieve our indy is a blatant attempt at creating division against indy and wastes valuable time. The only other reason for raising this topic is that the person saying it has yet to realise this.
@Xaracen –
Just to echo Daisy’s comment at 10.57.
It’s bad enough that we’re all having to come to terms with what’s happened, and what’s being revealed, but to be a member of the party right now must be tortuous for the decent majority.
It’s *your* party – here’s hoping that you and fellow members will find a way to get it back and start repairing the damage that’s been done. If there is a clear-out then you can be sure of a fresh influx to help with renovations.
😉
Republicofscotland says,
“This makes it difficult for anyone within the party to make any significant headway, and with the majority of them putting party before country, a well connected whistleblower looks unlikely to step forward. Reelection and to get ones snout back into the gravy trough is the order of the day.”
They are not putting party before country, they are putting themselves and their salaries and pensions before country.
Cherry was very stupid to do Sturgeon’s bidding to prevent independence by barking up the wrong tree.
Why is she so happy to be on a Westminster committee?
What exactly has she done for independence?
Did she back Martin Keatings’ case?
She was thwarted from standing for election to the Scottish parliament.
She was sacked from her front bench post at Westminster.
She was seriously threatened by an SNP activist.
Why is she still inside the SNP?
She is not weak – she is a lawyer and she has threatened several people with legal action.
What is stopping her from leaving the SNP and joining ALBA?
Apparently she is ill.
But if she doesn’t do that after recovering, will it be party before country or herself before country?
Rock on bullshit high!
No mention of the misplaced you know what all day on either STV or BBC news, obviously both are on the ‘let’s close our eyes and hopefully it will all be away tomorrow’ mode. Joke, just like that rag in Glasgow The?er??d (this has been redacted in case people liken it to a newspaper) which is only suitable for wrapping my fish and chips. One other thing, assuming one of the super-injunctions was about misplaced money what is the other all about, or shouldn’t I ask.
Fred says:
4 April, 2021 at 11:00 pm
Stephen, thanks. Very quickly, yes i’m completely on board with that and from an entirely moralistic standpoint that is exactly what should happen; however, and i know i’m appearing difficult, but i’ve not yet been convinced that anything they’ve done is strictly illegal. Not because i think i know better, but because i’ve not yet seen a contribution from someone who is a professional in that field and who can directly demonstrate it to me.
I guess i’m just preparing myself for the inevitable fish getting off the hook scenario, which is sure to follow.
—————————————————–
I am told that a Professional “Auditor” would need access to the “real” books in the first place and that hasn’t happened and it is unlikely going to happen. The Wokist Cult at the heart of the SNP now isn’t likely going to let that happen.
@Xaracen says:
4 April, 2021 at 10:17 pm
Totally agree with your assessment on the SNP and knowledge of members and the party.
“l as an individual am choosing the party because I believe it is still essential in getting us our independence, which is all I ever signed up for. It is also something that Alex Salmond himself agrees with, and as others have noted, given what he has suffered at the hands of certain people at the top of the party, if he can hold his nose and ask us to continue to vote for the SNP on the Constituency and Alba on the Regional votes for the good of Scotland, then we, including me, should do no less.”
Republicofscotland says,
“Sadly Sarwar is a somewhat toxic character and even though voters who want independence know that Sturgeon is holding Scottish independence back (present company excluded) the mentality is such that she will be reelected, and if for some reason she’s not, I think she’s also on the List vote as well.”
Sarwar is toxic but he will get back on the list no matter what.
It is not about electing Sarwar, it is about unseating Sturgeon.
It will be upto genuine independence supporting campaigners to point this out to the good voters of Glasgow Southside.
Instead of supporting Andy who is going to do just that, posters here who continuously moan about Sturgeon are attacking him.
It is my belief that an SNP 1/2 Wings poster alerted Tom Gordon of the Herald to Andy’s comment here.
No wonder the SNP has become so utterly corrupt – it can so easily take independence supporters for fools.
The Rev himself has pointed out at least 3 times, that Sturgeon is not on the top of the list and cannot get in on the list.
Unless she “games the system” and forces the SNP BAME list MSP to stand down for her.
Is it not incredible that a Glasgow City councillor can confirm the SNP’s Chief Executive’s refusal to grant access to the auditors appointed by the National Executive is justified.
Under what authority does the Chief Executive have the right to exclude auditors from access to the financial books. This is truly exceptional behaviour.
Audit access to inspect and review financial records is at the heart of any organisation, be it a company or a charity or a political party.
Restricting access to financial records is highly suggestive that the Chief Executive has something to hide. In fact such behaviour can be suggestive of fraud.
Maybe Peter Murrell has been spending money on child prostitutes, maybe he has a gambling habit, maybe he puts a lot of cocaine up his nose, or maybe he just plays fast and loose with the SNP funds.
Who knows, maybe absolutely none of the above, maybe he is an absolute paragon of virtue, but without auditor access to the books of the business no one can review what has been going on, if there may be any financial irregularities. That is why refusing to give auditor access is so serious.
Very possibly this, together with other information in the hands of the complainer is what prompted the police to make enquiries about potential irregularities.
Around £600,000 of hypothecated, or supposedly hypothecated donations, has gone, or appears to have gone from within the totality of the 2019 SNP accounts lodged with the Electoral Commission.
This is not an insignificant sum of money. And if it has indeed gone, where has it gone. And what else may have gone with it. Is there more?
I for one do not know. I am in the dark like everyone else. But somebody will know and that individual looks like Peter Murrell. Maybe Police Scotland will find out what has been going on. This needs to be investigated.
One thing for sure, as Cllr Mhairi Hunter spells out in her tweet today is that Peter Murrell is the man in control of the financial books, and more than probably, is the man responsible for what is, and isn’t, in them.
And as for his wife, was or is she involved in the accounts, and or has any knowledge of the accounts, or is she only a sleeping partner.
Funny how many Tories complain to me about how Westminster subsidies (ha ha believe that if you will) Scotland.
My reply to them is to lobby your Tory MP to support a bill for Westminster to release Scotland from the Union and all should be well. Funny how they then shut up and don’t know what to say.
We can raise and spend our own revenues rather than as we do now and give it all to the U.K. Treasury and get a small amount back as a handout.
If the economy is going well or isn’t so good then Scotland as an Independent Country is accountable in full and we will solve our own issues rather than the mess we have at the moment with next to no financial clout on how we spend ALL of our revenues we raise and give to the U.K. Treasury.
Meg merrilees says,
“Kcor
PLEASE STOP maligning Joanna Cherry – SHE IS ILL.
Let’s give her the benefit of the doubt”
I wish her a very quick recovery.
But the time for benefit of doubt is long over.
What exactly did she do to advance the cause of independence between 2016 and 2019, when it was more achievable than ever before?
What good did the re-opening of the Westminster parliament do to the cause of independence?
Why did she not use her legal expertise to get the “sovereignty” of the Scots confirmed.
Did she help Martin Keatings’ case?
What excuse will you make for her if she remains an SNP MP and a proud member of a Westminster committee after recovering?
I believe the questions about the money raised for a specific reason is easily understood by most people it’s either there or it’s not , if it isn’t where it should be and easily identified then the simple question of what happened to it shouldn’t really cause any problems .but for some reason it has with all the associated excuses including conspiracy theories just makes it ten times worse .
These limp and frankly peculiar excuses doesn’t fool anyone and the Father Ted defence is as funny as the Irish sit com he wasn’t believed either don’t these people watch TV maybe they should.
All these questions are building up and a really unpalatable stench that this is the default position of this SNP management is to lie about even simple things and makes people think if they lie about a simple thing what else are they hiding it’s not a good look and it comes from the top , the very top
@ Fred says ( Stephen says) 9.56
When I deposit my money at the bank……
When you deposit your money at the bank, it ceases to be your money and becomes the property of the bank. The bank only promises to repay you said money at a time and place convenient to said bank, and at a rate that they decide.
P.S. for general consumption, there is no such thing as `Tax Payers Money`
Looks like the real ROCK is breaking through and his mask is slipping aye we know who you are ROCK .
The SNP MP who you are having a go at has been under unimaginable pressure recently exactly how would you react to being under real personal physical danger not imaginary but real danger and has had little or no assistance from a party she has excelled in her brief and has been replaced with a very poor substitute she must feel totally let down by her party and fellow MPs .
So give it a rest eh .
PollyPrissyPants says:
4 April, 2021 at 5:56 pm
Hi John Main, read your comment about cancelling historic “Right to Roam” last year. What is this about, would you be able to post a link so I can read more about it? Thanks.
I think John was probably referring to the Covid restrictions, which over-rode some aspects of the right to roam.
Outlined here, with a link at the end to the Scottish government statement:
link to shepwedd.com
Kcor
I agree with you regards Cherry.
She, like Wishart, wears her Westminster slippers with pride.
She’s just another trougher.
How mad has nicola become. She wants rid of the not proven verdict to push the jury towards guilty
By saying not proven the jury is saying there is not enough evidence to say guilty so their answer has to be not guilty
She needs to get rid of the not guilty verdict
What a daft wee lass she is
Indy Now says:
4 April, 2021 at 10:10 pm
Alan Thoms says:
4 April, 2021 at 5:18 pm
The EU so beloved by Sturgeon,also has a thing about audited accounts. As far as I can tell, the accounts of the EU have never been signed off. What does this tell you? Basically their is something rotten at the heart of both the SNP and The EU. Surely an independent Scotland should steer well clear of the Brussels Mafia.
Answer
The SNP accounts are audited, that’s why we know that the 600k is not there.
So are the EU accounts. That claim has been debunked so often…
Just google eu accounts myth & take your pick.
And Cherry just Increased her Westminster salary by becoming a member of some Committee.
She’s no daft, fill na boots while am here, fuck yer Scottish Independence.
After Sturgeon and Murrell are gone, whose to say Angus Robertson won’t, if he becomes the SNP leader, and possibly FM, and one of his in the know trusted lieutenants, continues with this style of a corrupt charade, especially if all of Sturgeons major players still remain in their posts.
Reply
Mr Dempsie must not get elected into HR. He is involved somehow in the AS stitch up. If he weren’t Why did the harassment committee require a statement from him?
Rounding on Joanna Cherry is mental circular firing squad stuff, and maybe a sign you need to step away from the computer and take a breath. She’s definitely the best MP the SNP have, and possibly the best MP Scotland has. (Faint praise, I know).
No doubt Joanna, like all of us, isn’t perfect, but it seems perverse to single her out for criticism when there’s literally dozens of useless oxygen thieves in bumblebee rosettes prancing about Westminster to no good purpose.
Like the ones who think it’s a great idea to introduce drag queens to tiny weans at school. Or the one who thinks it’s clever to defame people on live television for no reason at all, then expect party members to pick up his legal bills. Or the one who thinks it’s a good idea to fondle the interns. Or take your pick from the various superannuated blowhards offering nothing but warm, whisky scented air in exchange for their cosy positions.
She’d be a great asset to Alba and I hope she makes the jump. If she stays in the SNP handcart as it descends to the ninth circle of Woke Hell (they’re currently in the eighth circle: fraud), feel free to criticise her then.
Btw I completely disagree with her on Brexit, but that doesn’t prevent me from admiring her as a person. Scotland needs fighters.
@Martin McDonald 4 April, 2021 at 8:31 pm
“Ms Hunter is all over the place on Twitter today and looking a bit foolish and desperate. She now says she “couldn’t care less” where the money is.
This is all getting very messy indeed.”
Amazing that if it turns out to be in someones personal Bank Account “she couldn’t care less” is is hard to see what the Murrells find attractive with Her ?
Oh dear
Glasgow’s Sarwar Southside pluggers are on a mission for another scalp.
Why would Sarwar need a campaign team in Southside when we have our very own.
Very odd.
Skip_NC says: 4 April, 2021 at 10:02 pm
“I suppose the question for former SNP voters/supporters in Glasgow Southside is what message will be sent if they elect someone as pro-union as Anas Sarwar.”
People don’t think that deeply in first past the post elections – and remember the constituency vote is exactly that. They think in terms of:
1. Which candidate would they prefer to win of the choices proffered with a realistic chance of winning.
2. Which candidate is best placed to stop the one they detest the most from winning.
3. Which candidate would they most prefer to save their deposit.
Sturgeon has done the sum total of fk all for Govanhill and they in particular will be tempted to vote for Sarwar, especially the Asian votes who have been feuding with the Roma there for an age.
Most people are smart enough to know Sarwar will be about as much use as he’s ever been as an MSP, and as much use as his old man was as an MP. But it will put the wind up an SNP that’s taken its voters as much for granted as old Scottish Labour did for far too long.
The advantage however this time with replacing one dud for another is if Sturgeon does lose, it will be a pyrrhic victory for Sarwar. It will be Scotland’s very own Smethwick moment, and he’ll never live down the taint on his political career. Sometimes that’s as good a result as you can hope to get.
Red says,
“Btw I completely disagree with her on Brexit, but that doesn’t prevent me from admiring her as a person. Scotland needs fighters.”
What good are fighters to us if they fight someone else’s fights, Red?
Instead of fighting for Scotland to be independent, she fought for Westminster (Scottish MPs outnumbered by 11 to 1) to be re-opened.
Fat good that did us.
I don’t know her as a person and I don’t care about her as a person, unless she had tried to jail an innocent man, which she didn’t.
It now seems possible to me that there was a deliberate SNP conspiracy to get Alex Salmond out of Westminster in 2017 as he is a real fighter who could have advanced the cause of independence.
And upset the salaries and pensions of the likes of Colourlessford and Wishart.
WHIT ABOOT AW THAT CON$-$ERVATIVE D.U.P.-ING PARTY DARK MONEY, AND CRONY CONTRACTS OF ETON MESS BORIS. BLAH BLAH OH AYE WOKE-Y WOKE-Y AND TRANS-*FER THOUGHTS TO INDY.SAD, SAD, SAd, power corrupts.
con$ . d.u.p.-ing dark money ma freend
CON$. D.U.P.-ING DARK MONEY
ndy says:
5 April, 2021 at 12:00 am
And Cherry just Increased her Westminster salary by becoming a member of some Committee.
She’s no daft, fill na boots while am here, fuck yer Scottish Independence
Yeah cos being a QC her income sources are so limited. Grow up radge.
Robert Graham says,
“The SNP MP who you are having a go at has been under unimaginable pressure recently exactly how would you react to being under real personal physical danger not imaginary but real danger and has had little or no assistance from a party she has excelled in her brief and has been replaced with a very poor substitute she must feel totally let down by her party and fellow MPs.”
I would react by immediately resigning from my party.
Why do you think Cherry is still in the SNP despite everything they have done to her?
I thought the only brief of SNP MPs should be to advance the cause of independence.
Tell me one thing Cherry has done to this effect.
OK, Scotland appears to be unique in having three verdicts – guilty, not guilty and not proven.
As somebody suggested earlier today, in preparation for our status as an independent country, why not go back to the traditional Scottish Proven and Not Proven? Seemples!
That would eff up the wokeys…
Mark Boyle says,
“The advantage however this time with replacing one dud for another is if Sturgeon does lose, it will be a pyrrhic victory for Sarwar. It will be Scotland’s very own Smethwick moment, and he’ll never live down the taint on his political career. Sometimes that’s as good a result as you can hope to get.”
What utter nonsense.
He would have humiliated a First Minister who lied under oath to a parliamentary committee in front of the cameras and got away with trying to put an innocent man in jail.
He would be a hero of Labour.
But more important, he would have done an enormous favour to everyone who have come to absolutely detest Sturgeon.
Although I have to admit that despite everything the Rev. Stuart Campbell has done to expose Sturgeon for the corrupt lying criminal she is, there are only two posters here, myself and Andy, who wholeheartedly support her defeat at the hands of Sarwar (with no loss to the number of SNP seats in Glasgow).
The rest of you would prefer Sturgeon to stay as MSP and therefore as SNP First Minister.
Well, as the saying goes, people get the leaders they deserve.
Kcor – where’s your EVIDENCE for your latest epistle, ie “The rest of you would prefer Sturgeon to stay as MSP and therefore as SNP First Minister.”?
You appear to be trolling so I will not address any of your future input.
seoras macaoidh says,
“Yeah cos being a QC her income sources are so limited. Grow up radge.”
It is not about the money, it is about her ambitions.
Member of a Westminster committee.
Hopes to be one day leader of the SNP, despite everything they have done to her.
What good are fighters to us if they fight someone else’s fights, Red?
Ms Cherry is one of the very few (or only? Idk, I’ve stopped paying close attention to the SNP out of disgust) elected SNP members who is even publicly talking about alternatives to just begging Boris for a referendum as a route to Independence. That’s not nothing.
She’s also been good on standing up to the transgender cult, which is necessary if we want to live in anything resembling a sane and free society. I hope I don’t sound hyperbolical, but gender theory is a bigger threat to our civilisation than the nuclear-armed USSR ever was, and there is no possibility of glasnost or detente with absolute gibbering lunatics who want access to your children. It’s literally a fast track to insanity and death. A society that denies the biological foundations of reality itself while encouraging children to sterilise and mutilate themselves isn’t going to last for very long, and it won’t be fun watching it die.
I don’t know Joanna as a person either, but she seems like a good person to me. Most of our political problems – and our constitutional situation isn’t the only important one, monomania is so fucking boring – could be solved if we had more good, honest and courageous people representing us, and fewer bad, deceitful and cowardly ones.
Maybe instead of offering her bile for the things you think she hasn’t done, she deserves some praise and encouragement and support for the things she has done. God knows, we could all do with that sometimes. Might be more useful than shouting at her on the internet.
Brian Doonthetoon says,
“Kcor – where’s your EVIDENCE for your latest epistle, ie “The rest of you would prefer Sturgeon to stay as MSP and therefore as SNP First Minister.”?”
The ONLY way to get Sturgeon out is to make her lose to Sarwar in her Glasgow Southside constituency.
Anyone who supports a tactical vote for Sarwar wants Sturgeon to go.
Anyone who opposes a tactical vote for Sarwar prefers Sturgeon to stay as SNP MSP and First Minister.
So far the EVIDENCE is only myself and Andy are on the record for advocating a tactical vote in favour of Sarwar.
Care to join us?
Or would you prefer Sturgeon to stay?
@WeeChid 4 April, 2021 at 7:19 pm
“Prasad says:
4 April, 2021 at 7:16 pm
“Off topic but surprised this isn’t getting more publicity
Nicola Sturgeon: The murky end to the SNP chief’s legal career
from Express today
link to archive.vn
Article says “although this episode has never been revealed before.”
Isn’t this the same case we were reading about a couple of weeks ago?”
Its the same case but with more meat in it , so it looks like the woman continued to get threatened and harassed because Sturgeon had not send the letter to get that stopped because she was too busy trying to progress Her new career ? Jesus Christ yet she was cleared ? Did the current Lord Advocate wherever he was at the time have a hand in that too ? Doesn’t it sound like a no fault decison was reached if she agreed to leave the Legal Profession ? Which it looked like she was doing already anyway ?
@TheItalianJob 4 April, 2021 at 11:22 pm
“Funny how many Tories complain to me about how Westminster subsidies (ha ha believe that if you will) Scotland.”
Can you understand this from the Scottish Government Website ? link to gov.scot
Red says,
“Maybe instead of offering her bile for the things you think she hasn’t done, she deserves some praise and encouragement and support for the things she has done.”
My point is she has achieved ZERO within the SNP.
Yes, she has been in favour of women’s rights. Has that done one bit of good to women’s rights?
She has been bullied and threatened by the SNP.
What excuse does she have for still being in the SNP?
Ok, she says she is ill.
But if she does not resign from the SNP the day she resumes her MP and Westminster committee member post, which she was very happy to announce, then it will be clear that she is more interested in herself than in the country.
My view is SNP MPs have no business being part of any Westminster committees, let alone ambitions to become speaker.
I hope ALBA will be strong enough to fight the next Westminster election on a plebiscite manifesto, which no doubt the SNP will bitterly oppose.
Don says,
“Jesus Christ yet she was cleared ? Did the current Lord Advocate wherever he was at the time have a hand in that too ? Doesn’t it sound like a no fault decison was reached if she agreed to leave the Legal Profession ?”
The legal profession is and always has been rotten to the core.
Alex Salmond was lucky to be cleared by an independent an honest jury.
He would have been in prison if his fate had been decided by a judge.
Remember, the judge prevented vital evidence of the conspiracy to be admitted.
And the corrupt lying criminal James Wolffe, Lord Advocate of Scotland, illegally prevented the parliamentary committees fro admitting vital evidence.
No wonder Sturgeon and Yousaf want to get rid of juries.
Brian Toon aka ,,,the bucket man.
The rumours are you are as corrupt as Sturgeon.
You and your side kick, bucket man 2, would fill your Wings Stall buckets from the gullable publics donations and then it was , o e to you, one to me…
And off to Spain you’d go.
Similar to what Sturgeon is up to.
No get back to the Dug where you belong.
And you are a grass.
Same as the man from Orange County.
@Jason Smoothpiece says:
4 April, 2021 at 8:39 pm
“Several reports in the media that Nicola Sturgeon is unhappy with the low rate of convictions in rape cases.
Comment made on the requirement for corroboration from two sources to secure a conviction.”
The SNP tried playing with corroboration before if I remember rightly. Remove corroboration and you get into a “yes you did” “no I didn’t” situation.
We’d end up with a Stalinist environment where people who were “denounced” suddenly found themselves up to their necks in it.
The National twitter pages:-
Indy Parties on course for a 29 seat majority.
link to mobile.twitter.com
I’ll even accept a 28 seat majority if Sturgeon does infact end up losing her seat.
How could anyone honestly admit they’d be disappointed if Sturgeon lost her seat.
Xaracen; “Who the hell are you to put your words in my mouth?
What makes you think I am choosing to have them as leaders?”
I could see that your post was quite lengthy but I confess I didn’t go any further than the two lines above.
Earlier you said ” Many of us are not at all happy with our ‘dear leaders’, and you certainly don’t get to tar us all with that bloody brush!”
Let’s decrypt.
First of all, I’m using and quoting your words directly (not putting anything in anyone’s mouth). All I am bringing to the table here is some quite basic deductive reasoning.
Now, nobody forced you to remain a member of the SNP. And since you can resign your membership at any time, that means you would seem to have chosen to remain a member. So far, so basic.
By choosing to remain a member, you have, as a very straightforward matter of fact, chosen to have Sturgeon and her gang as your “‘dear leaders'”.
Note that none of the above in any way reveals my own personal opinion on anything. I have simply applied reasoning to what you have said.
If you need any help with anything else, you know where to find me.
Okay, xaracen, for entertainment I decided to read the rest of what you typed. Where before I simply responded to things you said using deductive reasoning, this time I’m going to respond with my own personal opinion.
What you typed is a pile of pish.
Alex Salmond never told anyone to join or remain members of the SNP. He has encouraged people to vote for the SNP, not join. Actually, it’s quite ridiculous to suggest that as the leader of Alba he would suggest such a thing.
But, regardless of what Salmond or anyone else thinks or says, it’s your choice to remain a member. You admit as much yourself.
It’s perplexing to me that you think you’re some sort of victim here — adopting the usual posture of self-righteous indignation — when, as we have established, you choose to be an SNP member and therefor choose to have Sturgeon and co as your leaders.
Incidentally, have you — has anyone? — considered that they best way to express dissatisfaction with the leadership of the SNP is to resign your membership?
I mean, ffs it’s quite a no-brainer. If you are smart enough to tie your own shoelaces, and I’ll concede that you seem to be, that’s a no-brainer.
Action has consequences. Inaction has consequences. Remaining a member of the SNP has consequences. Everything has consequences.
If what I have heard is right then those inclined to replace Sturgeon as leader of SNP have already left, well most of them at least. They are now members of Alba or will be soon.
Those inclined to recall Kirsty Blackman for instance have also already left. Is she even a Scot Nat? By her own admission she isn’t even promoting Scots Indy. Needs sacked.
I see Mairi Black is now backtracking on some of her positions especially in relation to the bullying of Joanna Cherry.
Interesting, first time I have read through all the comments, won’t be doing that again in a hurry.
If someone writes something, please, please, do not repeat it using different words, we can all see your just repeating what someone else has already written.
Groundhog day
David Caledonia: “ first time I have read through all the comments, won’t be doing that again in a hurry…”
Well, maybe if you read more often, you’d know when to use “you’re” instead of “your”.
You’re showing total ignorance and no little malice to be attacking Joanna Cherry.
Joanna Cherry TWICE took on the British Establishment, using the Constitutional power of Scots Law to rub the UK’s “Supreme Court’s” face in the dirt, provide the entire UK a way to revoke Brexit on a Scottish ticket, and she furthermore used Scots Law to reign in the conduct of an obnoxious Tory Prime Minister trying to exploit the unwritten “constitution” of the UK to exempt himself from scrutiny. He failed, because the prestigious Joanna Cherry forced him to obey the judgement of Scotland’s Court of Session, based upon the Scottish Constitutional doctrine that the people are sovereign and Parliament cannot exempt itself from their scrutiny. English law couldn’t touch him, but Scots Law ruled supreme… literally, and in every sense of the word.
Thus, a rare thing happened, something so rare I cannot think of any parallel occurrence in the last 300 years of rancid Union, when the unwritten conventions and ambiguities of the Union which were, and are, routinely exploited by Westminster to Scotland’s disadvantage, were successfully challenged by a gutsy and clever Scottish Lawyer who knew her stuff, and an important principle derived from a Scottish Constitutional principle saw a portion of UK’s “unwritten” constitution written in indelible ink.
And what support did Joanna Cherry get for these inspired and epic professional successes? She was treated like absolute dirt by Nicola Sturgeons “Winnie Mandela’s Football Club” of wokist gobshites, subjected to despicable abuse and victimisation by the political party in who’s name she had just brought the UK Establishment to it’s knees, and while her professional reputation skyrocketed, her political options were truncated by the lousy creeps in Sturgeon’s bent NEC who contrived their own rules to bar her from Holyrood.
Joanna Cherry is one million times the asset to us than the crook Nicola Sturgeon, and Sturgeons petty and vindictive jealousy and fear of Joanna Cherry’s prowess is there for all to see.
If the revelations of Sturgeon’s incompetence as a lawyer brought her to the point of quitting before being struck off are accurate, then suddenly a whole perspective on Sturgeon’s unfathomable aversion to invoking Scots Law for Scotland’s protection is suddenly a few fathoms less impenetrable.
We thus have the very dregs of Scotland’s legal fraternity sitting in higher office above the very pinnacle and sharpest spear point of Scottish Legal doctrine, and in her jealousy, Sturgeon won’t even speak up to silence the spoiled brat imbeciles who are abusing Joanna Cherry with truly reprehensible toxicity.
Small wonder Joanna Cherry is ill. She is probably sick to the heart that her prestigious achievements and constitutional acumen brought the UK Establishment to it’s knees and at the mercy of Scots Law, were presented to Her Royal Highness Sturgeon, who didn’t have the brains to understand what Cherry had achieved. It cannot be very comfortable for Ms Cherry to have her towering intellect subjugated by the crooked dunce in charge.
I hope that Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond are in regular conversation these days, because when the corrupt House of Sturgeon falls, which cannot come soon enough for all of Scotland, it will be important to have someone on hand to salvage whatever can be salvaged of the SNP. That roll, I hope, will fall to Joanna Cherry.
With Alex Salmond and ALBA, the clever man who turn around Independence teetering on the brink of despair, and Joanna Cherry, the clever woman who presented the grinding mess of UK Brexit with a kill-switch, both in control of the SNP, then we’re in “dream team” territory, and it’s game on for Scotland and a supermajority ramping up the chances for Scottish Independence.
Sturgeon? Just get the fk out the way and take the dozy shitebags with you, …. but don’t leave town. These gentlefolk from Police Scotland would like to present you with a,… now how should I put it, a going away present.
So the bottom line… Back off attacking Joanna. She is one of the very best of us, but sorely under appreciated.
Breeks
Cherry is another SNP hubris filled horror who despises democracy. Who refused to accept the 2014 and 2016 referendum results.
This was a great day for democracy
‘A Scottish judge has dismissed a move to force Boris Johnson to comply with a law aimed at avoiding a no-deal Brexit.
link to bbc.co.uk
One of the things Johnson said he would do would be to limit the powers of the legal industry to interfere with the decisions of the people. Is there a more vile and delusional man than Cherry’s fox bludgeoning partner in crime ?
I supported Brexit because like Corbyn I know what the EU really is. A Thatcherite hell hole. That’s why Madame Nicola loves it so much.
‘Jeremy Corbyn called for the European Union to be “defeated”, united as it is with the bankers and the IMF to create austerity and unemployment. (2010)
Hatuey. 4.29am.are you the same Mark Boyle who corrected me for using “your” instead of “you’re yesterday.
Breeks 5:20AM
I hope that Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond are in regular conversation these days, because when the corrupt House of Sturgeon falls, which cannot come soon enough for all of Scotland, it will be important to have someone on hand to salvage whatever can be salvaged of the SNP. That roll, I hope, will fall to Joanna Cherry.
Reply
Well said Breeks. I agree with everything you said here.
We are on the same page in our thinking re the paragraph from your post above.
There is a reason a couple of MPs haven’t left the SNP for ALBA. I’m sure the last thing Alex wants is to see the SNP vanish from Scotland’s political history.
He has given his life to that party & to Scotland.
The tax people can demand to see the books anytime they want
If there is no tax paid on that money they could be in a bit of bother, not sure if party donations are taxable
Most of the leaders of the european union are vile, why any country would want to get back into that place is beyond me, it wastes money every day it exists.
And as for democracy, forget it, what you have is a load of unelected morons who could not tell their own arses from a hole in the ground
Alex Salmond undoubtedly has sleepers among the remaining SNP MSPs and MPs in both Parliaments. They will provide crucial intel and, if necessary will be ready to jump ship.
Eric McCue says:
5 April, 2021 at 5:53 am
Breeks
Cherry is another SNP hubris filled horror who despises democracy. Who refused to accept the 2014 and 2016 referendum results.
Another Brexiteering Unionist gobshite who claims to believe in democracy, just so long as it isn’t Scottish democracy, an emphatic 62% mandate rejecting Brexit, and the appropriate legal initiative to defend the constitutional sovereignty of the Scottish people.
There you have it Scotland, your unconstitutional subjugation delivered by a colonial usurper, and a pathetic SNP Government utterly complicit, and worthy of impeachment.
David Caledonia says:
5 April, 2021 at 6:44 am
….why any country would want to get back into that place is beyond me…
Now that I believe.
The BTL comments are often as not as valuable as the article itself.
It is funny on here of late (last few months especially). There always seems to be one commentator at least who spams the shit out of the BTL section making it harder to read and also to take the conversation down endless dead ends. As soon as the Rev gets rid of one another appears it seems.
The content of the comments are typically not so much the issue as the volume of the comments.
It seems to be a tactic to swamp the BTL section.
I noticed the same folk typically are trying to generate as much conflict between commentators as possible.
I think it is only going to get worse and is a sure sign this place is causing them serious hurt.
@Douglas MacMillan 7:01am
No!
Several are waiting for the Murrells to go so normal business can resume. If they don’t go they will be forced to leave and probably Alba would be their best option.
Your version helps the Hunter arguement.
[Salmond] “I believe that she [Sturgeon] should be the First Minister because the SNP should win a handsome majority.
“She is the only viable independence candidate and therefore she is the best one.
“I have no ambition to be in government, I am not standing to be first minister, I am standing for the Alba Party on the list to build an independence super-majority.”
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
They deserve one another – each are cults. You even have a high priest in Rev. Stu.
Christ the unionist sock puppets and trolls are going into overdrive and getting more and more frenzied by the minute.
I can see quite a few teddies getting machine gunned out of union jack prams come election time to the sound of much wailing.
I think posters like kcor are funny. He tells us to remove sturgeon in glesga southside , who he tells us is a corrupt venal woke anti independence politician , we have to vote in keir starmers bootlicker Anas Sarwar , who is also a corrupt venal woke anti independence politician , to right the ills of the world and make the onionists happy.
You are standing screaming at each other in a darkened room mate while the rest of us are going out to stop union politicians getting into our parliament as best we can.
SNP1 ALBA 2
I have voiced my own personal problems voting SNP1 but that is more to do with knowing too much about the last couple of years.
That is just my personal dilemma to deal with and it really shows me just what an extraordinary person AS is, to still see the bigger picture here even after what they tried to do to him.
Make no mistake whatsoever that what ALBA have done here is a strategic and tactical masterstroke.
It is a brilliant, brilliant plan (and obviously echoes back to the idea talked about on this site many months ago now).
This idea is a way for the SNP to split (which was already happening) and for the Independence movement to become stronger as a result of the split. That is an incredible result.
This is genius folks, absolute genius. But is is also the right thing to do for the bigger picture, that first involves seeing the bigger picture and then putting grievances to one side in May.
This proposal by ALBA is so clever on so many levels you could write an essay on it. Every day some new advantage dawns on me.
It is a brilliant plan and a hugely important junction for the Independence movement. We have a choice, do we make this split a positive thing? Or a negative one? It is up to us in May.
For the Independence movement this is the biggest moment in its history since 2014, it may prove even more important…
Jack McArthur says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:40 am
They deserve one another – each are cults. You even have a high priest in Rev. Stu.
Folks will see what they want to see Jack, but I interpret Alex Salmond’s ‘backing’ for Sturgeon is a token olive branch, inviting those who are outraged by Sturgeon’s conduct to hold the line and vote SNP in May, not as any vindication of Sturgeon as FM, but a call for patience and forbearance to deliver something much more important, and that is a Holyrood supermajority.
Sturgeons comeuppance can come later. Let the “borrowed time” she is currently living on span through the May Election, so crisis is postponed, the SNP constituency vote doesn’t collapse in the May Election, and a strong SNP forms the perfect compliment to what is hopefully the ALBA party’s success in winning list seats, coming together to form an 82+ seat pro Independence supermajority.
With a smile and a nod, Alex Salmond has reigned in the attack dogs for the greater good of a Scottish supermajority.
I’m sure Rev Stu is delighted you’ve promoted him to High Priest. What a benign high priest he must be to allow your hostile free speech on his blog, rather than roast you alive as a heretic.
Poor auld sir keir. England still doesnt want to rejoin the eu , while the labour membership demands that he campaigns to rejoin.
New blow for Sir Keir Starmer as 60% of Labour Party members think he should campaign to rejoin EU despite his desire to move on from Brexit
But the poll shows his policy switch is at odds with the views of most party members.
Sir Keir’s election one year ago today was greeted with relief by MPs as he vowed to address years of infighting and antisemitism allegations under Jeremy Corbyn.
But sources last night said that former Labour PM Tony Blair is beginning to lose patience as the party slips behind in the polls.
Critics are also scathing of what they say was Sir Keir’s blunder in banking on branding Boris Johnson as a serial incompetent, only for the Covid jab programme’s overwhelming success to trump that.
A Shadow Cabinet source said there was growing unease in Labour, adding: ‘There is a void about what we stand for. You can’t just not be the other guy.’
There are also claims of tensions between Sir Keir and his deputy Angela Rayner and Shadow Foreign Secretary Lisa Nandy.
link to dailymail.co.uk
Thomas – “Critics are also scathing of what they say was Sir Keir’s blunder in banking on branding Boris Johnson as a serial incompetent, only for the Covid jab programme’s overwhelming success to trump that.”
…and who is our serial incompetent, Thomas? If you want my opinion, it’s James Wolffe closely followed by John Swinney and they have successfully bolloxed this whole country. Interesting to know Alex’s view.
Effigy says:
4 April, 2021 at 6:34 pm
Quote:-
Scotland so lucky to have Westminster rule and all that vaccine?
Today’s Covid figures for Germany in the EU with few vaccines has 1,700 new cases and 3 Deaths.
BojoLand with a sea of vaccine and the most brilliant government ever-
2,300 new cases and 10 deaths?
The German population is 15 million larger and 50,000 fewer Covid Deaths than the U.K. over the last year.
PS The German economy is far stronger that the U.K. pensions and wages very much higher.
If we have to be suppressed by another nation, can you make it today’s German Government?
For clarity todays EU figures [sorry, just a link]
You be the Judge.
That is one of the most amazing things for me Breeks is that through it all Salmond never set the attack dogs on anyone. God only knows he was justified but he never did.
The attack dogs (like me, like you) set themselves on the SNP after they became aware of what was going on.
The attack dogs arrived not long after the whistle blowers blew them whistles, (good analogy this 🙂 ) bless them.
So I suppose in my own small way I am a freelance attack dog. I go where my nose leads me. It led me here.
I was on the verge of going full “Cujo” on the SNP’s gonads until ALBA came along.
Salmond is indeed now trying to call in the attack dogs but as he never set them off to begin with, some are not so keen on stopping.
We’ve got a month to let the blood frenzy abate… and get our heads around SNP1.
If Salmond can do it surely we can… (said through gritted fangs).
Oh and for effigy a wee reminder of how a serious government, one that takes it’s responsibilities to its citizens a bit more than a midday, two bit talent show …
link to bbc.co.uk
bbc link sorry.
Thomas says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:18 am
Poor auld sir keir. England still doesnt want to rejoin the eu , while the labour membership demands that he campaigns to rejoin…
Meanwhile, in Foreign News…
Does this spell the end to any future SNP fundraisers & donations?
Mac says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:28 am
We’ve got a month to let the blood frenzy abate… and get our heads around SNP1.
Spot on Mac.
The big unknown is whether Sturgeon will cool her jets, or burn the house down.
Doesn’t look promising so far, but if she overplays it, (and she perhaps already has), she might be gone a lot sooner than she thinks…
Look at the few places the labour party are in power and the state labour have them in.
In England , labour have bankrupted croydon council and the tory government have had to step in with a £120 million bailout.
Liverpool labour mayor arrested and resigned , labour council under corruption investigation , tory government to step in again.
London at a standstill , with khans labour incompetence , burnham a figure of ridicule propped up by the manchester a voted labour cause ma da did mentality.
Everywhere you look in england labour on the retreat and imploding , meanwhile onionists in scotland tell us vote labour .
Has sarwar been given permission to speak yet from his master sir keir?
extremebuilder at 11:39 pm
Foley V Hill ..I believe
Hi Breeks.
A supermajority is over 2/3, or 86+ MSPs.
Hatuey said:
“By choosing to remain a member, you have, as a very straightforward matter of fact, chosen to have Sturgeon and her gang as your “‘dear leaders’”.”
It’s simple black and white for you, isn’t it? No nuance at all. Sturgeon bad so nuke the party.
As I see it, you are advocating eliminating the rotten apples by eliminating the party itself as a meaningful political entity, through having all or most of its members abandon it.
I see that as refusing to buy the best house in the most desirable neighbourhood at a good price because you hate the carpet on the stairs.
I say buy the damn house already and replace the damn carpet as soon as you can.
I can’t vote Sturgeon out personally for the simple reason she isn’t standing in my constituency, so however I vote, her seat is dependent only on how her own constituents vote. But I still want the SNP to continue as a party and I can fully justify that to myself, and indeed have done so.
Hatuey also said:
“Incidentally, have you — has anyone? — considered that they best way to express dissatisfaction with the leadership of the SNP is to resign your membership?”
Don’t be silly, of course I have, and so have many others, and some have indeed rescinded their memberships because of that dissatisfaction. I have come close myself on occasion, and as I’ve already explained, I have decided that resignation is not the best way to express my dissatisfaction. Obviously I am keeping that decision under review, as any sensible person would, and it is well that I did, given the fresh hope that Alex Salmond has just offered.
@ breeks
I know what you are saying breeks , but at the end of the day its very relevant.
There are people on here telling us to vote Anas Sarwar and british labour.
Wether we like it or not foreign news is very relevant to us.
We have midlothian labour bailing out their foreign cousins in croydon to the tune of £13 million in scottish taxpayers cash , and wether we like it or not , scotland is intertwined with england currently in this suffocating union.
ANDREW NEIL: “Censorship, bullying, threats of jail… how Nicola Sturgeon’s storm troops turned Scotland into a banana republic without the bananas.”
The Daily Mail’s famous headline from a few weeks ago. In my memory, there has never before been a headline like this one written about Scotland.
Before casting your vote, I would just ask you if some of this headline is true and do you really want to hold your nose and vote for it to a continue?
David Caledonia
The EU is severely intellectually underpowered. Conceived as a European response to Soviet and American hegemony it capitulated to the former and accommodated the latter. Its performance in the Middle East and in the Balkans has been disastrously underwhelming. Now with neo-corporatist China on the scene it appears supine, uncertain of its direction and even of its purpose.
As in the rest of world there are no great national «leaders» worthy of the name simply a coterie of bureaucrats and functionaries doing a job keeping the thing going, but not going anywhere in particular. The great Covid scam has shown them for the second raters they are.
As long as the masses indulge these politicians nothing will change.
Meanwhile Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates, Soros etc smirk and grin.
I’ve read about 100s of ‘women’ acting in a similar way to Nicola Sturgeon.
ie Ripping his designers suits to bits with a kitchen knife.
Pouring his precious wine collection down the toilet/delivering it to neighbours
Covering his car in paint etc etc
These were all women who had been emotionally involved with the ‘victim’
Has there ever been any incident of women acting like Nicola Sturgeon who haven’t been emotionally involved with the ‘victim’?
How cheering it is in the morning to see our esteemed contributor El Pantalones aka Breeks has been here laying waste to the numbskulls n petty dividers intent on sowing dissent n conflict and dispensing counter-productive ( to our ultimate goal ) recommendations and,on this occasion, providing the best defence ( not that any is required ) of Joanna Cherry I’ve seen by anyone
” Joanna Cherry is one million times the asset to us than the crook Nicola Sturgeon, and Sturgeons petty and vindictive jealousy and fear of Joanna Cherry’s prowess is there for all to see.”
Unimprovable and THE definitive comment on both the precious Ms Cherry and the corrupted trash Sturgeon .
Thanks Breeks
Captain Yossarian says:
Before casting your vote, I would just ask you if some of this headline is true and do you really want to hold your nose and vote for it to a continue?
Reply
The question I am asking is
‘What are the implications of ‘No Votes SNP’
@ captain yossarian.
Thanks captain for making our minds up for us. You have convinced me to keep the unionist parties out of holyrood at all costs.
SNP1 ALBA 2.
Hows that sound captain?
Sadly Sturgeon never fails to disappoint Breeks, it is the one constancy in it all. We all could have written the script she is coming out with now, minutes after hearing about ALBA.
But of course just one more genius aspect of this ALBA proposal is that this is not the decision of the SNP leadership, it is in the hands of the SNP voters. Try as they might one does not control the other.
Already I think Sturgeon is nearing the point where people are listening to one feeble excuse after another, littered with endless smears and snide ad hominem attacks, and starting to ask… what the feck is that all about.
I think she is reaching the point of diminishing returns on her lies, obfuscations and smears.
Again it is genius in another way, but this proposal by ALBA is outing the careerists, the fake nationalists.
We will vote SNP1 / ALBA2 in the end. But the Sturgeonites can’t, all they care about is protecting Sturgeon and destroying Salmond. That is their raison d’etre, our’s is independence. The proof is in the voting. I would exempt the (mostly) women on here from this who have stated they just cant vote SNP1 due to the GRA stuff, fair play, a bridge too far for them.
This is such a clearly great idea that for the SNP to not endorse it, really reveals to voters in the know that they are actually more concerned about their own position, their own cushy number and primarily they don’t want any competition coming along and rocking their boat, breaking their monopoly.
There are so many dimensions to why the ALBA plan is a great idea. It may not have been the smoothest launch from a techie point of view but it was and is superb from a tactical one.
What on earth has Alex Salmond done to Nicola Sturgeon to deserve her ‘Bunny Boiler’ behaviour?
@Ruby – I have already said that I am neither Unionist or Nationalist and I will shut-up and go with the majority.
I started reading WoS in January. I wanted to read what Robin McAlpine had said. He’s local and I’ve heard him speak before and this was the only place I could find his opinion.
I don’t know about you but what he said shocked me and what we have learned in the months since just confirms it all to be true.
We’ve heard the same from many, many other sources now haven’t we. All that stops us all from learning the whole story is the behaviour of the storm troops with redactor pens.
I am advocating vote Alba 2 if that’s what folk want to do. But, be very circumspect before voting SNP 1 because what you’ll get is just more of the same and, as Andrew Neil points out, that would not be acceptable anywhere else in the democratic world.
The rest of Europe is hurtling towards another Covid wave and case numbers are rising exponentially. Europe is not run by experts; it is run by folk that are not that good.
It’s time for us all to stop and think. Putting all of our eggs in the SNP basket? No thanks.
Captain Yossarian says:
5 April, 2021 at 9:28 am
@Ruby – I have already said that I am neither Unionist or Nationalist and I will shut-up and go with the majority.
Reply
Cheers Captain but that didn’t answer my question.
Ruby at 9.24am. Good question. Has anyone suggested, “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”?
@Ruby – “I am advocating vote Alba 2 if that’s what folk want to do. But, be very circumspect before voting SNP 1 because what you’ll get is just more of the same and, as Andrew Neil points out, that would not be acceptable anywhere else in the democratic world.”
Specifically, what you get by “no votes SNP”, is democracy.
Interesting how quick someone named the person who submitted a complaint to police but nobody telling who sent confidential documents to Daily Record.. I hope Salmond crowd funds for his legal case, its in every Scot’s interest to get rid of the hate criminals who are throwing their weight around.
Didn’t take long for the SNP to morph into the same self-serving venal scum that was SLAB….
They’re never going to recover from the damage the Sturgeon/Murrel clique have done. The decline won’t be immediate but it will be irreversible.
People remember crooked politicians.
Yet another belter of a post from Breeks this morning. The boy is on-fire at the moment.
Sadly, his excellent post of 5.20am was immediately followed by a nasty bit of trolling. Whether from a Unionist, or a Sturgeonista, I am still trying to work out.
It is so-difficult to tell these two varieties apart these days.
Captain? Yossarian, whats the weather like at the moment down in Hermitage berkshire?
Breeks @ 5.20
“the bottom line” for Scottish independence is surely the urgent need to test the political sovereignty of Scotland’s MP’s and the lawful case for the majority of Scotland’s national elected representatives to withdraw Scotland from a treaty-based alliance. So why didn’t and hasn’t Ms Cherry done that?
If as you say “She is one of the very best of us”, why did she instead focus on demonstrating the political sovereignty and power of Westminster MP’s over the UK government? And where exactly did that get us vis-a-vis brexit and/or independence?
Roger Gough says:
5 April, 2021 at 9:32 am
Ruby at 9.24am. Good question. Has anyone suggested, “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”?
Reply
That is certainly what her behaviour looks like but the question is in what way was she scorned?
Indeed Breeks is on fire as he has been for the past few years when he kept on stating that the Scottish people’s Sovereignty is above Westminster, Holyrood and should have been inacted by the SNP.
She’s a pretty vicious person this Mhairi- camp guard material.
I would rather Sturgeon is re elected and made to face Salmond in parliament. It wouldn’t take long for her party to see her as a liability and get rid.
Kicking her out at the election will only perpetuate the cult, and make divisions deeper.
Heav’n has no rage, like love to hatred turn’d,
Nor hell a fury, like a woman scorn’d.
William Congreve, The Mourning Bride.
Captain Yossarian says:”
Specifically, what you get by “no votes SNP”, is democracy.
Reply
You are off the hook now Captain! I won’t be asking you any further questions.
Bye!
I wonder who is in the board of this charitable board?
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
@Vestas,
the woke carpetbaggers jumped ship from SLAB to SNP once they seen the gravy train wasn`t stopping at the Red platform,
I cannot seem to access the trust link on above post.?
We are not too poor.
Great article from Grousebeater.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
I read the tweet as saying that loyalty to the party is more important than financial rectitude. This is the ‘morality’ of a gang, of the mob.
It is the mentality of the contemporary registered charity.
@Ruby – Have I been redacted then? For criticizing the SNP? Jings man.
To me, it’s looking more and more like NS has been nobbled by the Unionists.
@Scot Finlayson
Agreed, I distinctly remember in 2014 a comment on how the SNP was now full of weirdos. We were all extra sensitive thinking they were talking about the working-class support moving from Labour.
Turns out they were talking about the woke carpetbaggers. Jumping on to any cause under the hating the Tories and bettering the working class.
Boy were we fooled.
Where we are
link to archive.is
meg merrilees asked:
I wonder how big the brown envelope was? (regarding the Gillies Hill quarry).
Well, if a 100k donation can get you a 650 million development, perhaps it didn’t need to be all that large?
Scot Finlayson says:
5 April, 2021 at 9:51 am
“@Vestas,
the woke carpetbaggers jumped ship from SLAB to SNP once they seen the gravy train wasn`t stopping at the Red platform,”
To a certain extent thats true but the SNP “leadership” are the people I’m talking about, not the entryists from late 2014/15.
Are the Alba supporters on here who said that they would never again vote SNP still following that road or has Salmond’s advice changed their minds.
Nally Anders
Its an interesting analysis and no real surprises. Personally I think that Scotland can do much better than even that LSE analysis suggests. The authors are perhaps looking for a role as expert trade advisors in an indy Scotland.
On the matter of Scottish international trade facilitation, this may be of interest: link to reidfoundation.org
And briefly on the subject of maritime policy: link to scotlandspeaks.com
@gullaneno4
Im voting SNP 1 (in my case Jenny Gilruth, partner of Kezia Dugdale, yeah, that one!) only because in Mid&Fife we have the excellent Eva Comrie and Neale Hanvey standing on the Regional List for Alba.
Alba have brought this election out of its stupor and it really does feel like a new begining. Let’s get rid of some Unionist deadwood and get the majority we need.
Alex/Nicola? Really they are just bystanders. This is about us and Scotland’s future
gullaneno4
I shall, on 6 May, take Alex’s advice and, holding my nose, vote SNP1.
My hope is, the next time I enter a ballot booth, I have more opportunity to vote ALBA in the party’s own right. I trust by the enxdt time we have to vote, ALBA too is standing int he Constituencies.
@Thomas says: 5 April, 2021 at 8:05 am
“I think posters like kcor are funny.”
How nice someone finds Andy/Fergus/Kcor/Dandee/Arch Stanton/GullaneNo4 and the rest of the “getting bites is the highlight of my day” brigade funny …
@gullaneno4 10.20 am
Some obviously have changed their minds, and have stated as much. Others haven’t. I can’t bring myself to vote for them after what we’ve seen them do over the past year or two, not can I forgive their reaction to criticism and their attempt to politically strangle Alba Party at birth.
An outright SNP majority, or an SNP/Green majority, would in my view be little better than a unionist majority. Only an SNP administration kept honest by Alba party MSPs will prevent the SNP sitting on their arses for another five years achieving SFA on independence while imposing their woo-woo agenda and infringing our civil liberties via regressive policies like the GRA and the HCB, and their crypto crime family approach to governance and accountability more generally.
It will avail us little if the result of the 2021 election is a handful of Alba MSPs criticising from the sidelines if the SNP as currently constituted has an outright majority or does a cosy deal with the Greens or a confidence and supply with one of the yoon parties. Hopefully Alba will weaken if not eradicate the Scottish Greens as well as deprive lots of yoon seat warmers of their list seat sinecures. Many of us would however shed zero tears if Sturgeon, Swinney and Robertson were deprived of seats too.
Socrates MacSporran Yes in the Constituencies of an Independent Scotland.
Breeks said:
“…based upon the Scottish Constitutional doctrine that the people are sovereign and Parliament cannot exempt itself from their scrutiny”.
Oh how I wish that part of your comment was true. Sadly it’s not. I’m not saying the people of Scotland are not ultimately sovereign but the court was ruling on the power of the UK executive to prorogue UK Parliament.
THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD THE SOVEREIGNTY OF CROWN IN PARLIAMENT.
It is true the Supreme Court did agree with the Inner House ruling of the Court of Session that the prorogation of UK Parliament was unlawful and so null an void. So, the Advocate General’s appeal in the Cherry case was rejected. (Miller’s appeal was upheld).
But, the Supreme Court also said:
“41. Two fundamental principles of our constitutional law are relevant to the present case. The first is the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty: that laws enacted by the Crown in Parliament are the supreme form of law in our legal system…
@PaulaJ 5 April, 2021 at 10:17 am
“meg merrilees asked:
I wonder how big the brown envelope was? (regarding the Gillies Hill quarry).
Well, if a 100k donation can get you a 650 million development, perhaps it didn’t need to be all that large?!
But we have no idea how much went into personal offshore Bank Accounts yet.
@PollyPrissyPants
He was being snarky about the Lockdown regulations meaning he couldn’t walk the hills through having to stay home.
That is all it is.
@Ruby 5 April, 2021 at 9:50 am
“Captain Yossarian says:”
Specifically, what you get by “no votes SNP”, is democracy.
Reply
You are off the hook now Captain! I won’t be asking you any further questions.
Bye!”
LOL Toys thrown out of pram because you didn’t get the answer you wanted to satisy your own belief system. So runs away and buries head in sand like an Ostrich.
Andy Ellis says:
5 April, 2021 at 10:37 am
@gullaneno4 10.20 am
” I can’t bring myself to vote for them (the SNP) after what we’ve seen them do over the past year or two, not can I forgive their reaction to criticism and their attempt to politically strangle Alba Party at birth.
An outright SNP majority, or an SNP/Green majority, would in my view be little better than a unionist majority”
I can understand your sentiments Andy, but the arithmetic that puts ALBA into seats on the list is predicated on maxing out SNP in the constituencies pertains to the list regions – unless some folks that vote Unionist (or Green where they are standing) in constituencies vote ALBA on the list – an unlikely scenario, you might think?
So the best way to ensure a YES supermajority IS SNP 1: ALBA 2 – in fact it is the only way.
Pegs to noses folks!
Lost @ 10:14
“Turns out they were talking about the woke carpetbaggers”
You mean those who have morphed into the Sturgeon United FC.
Don 11.94am
Didn’t you know, Ruby is,,,
SNP 1 ANNNNNNNNNND 2.
No kiddin, there are STILL people out there who think Sturgeon done no wrong.
SNP 1 Alba 2 at this election or we might not get the chance to vote Alba 1 Alba 2 at a next election.
@ cynicalHighlander at 10:15 am
Stereo turds or is that the face of Armageddon for Scotland?
The whole concept of Smith as a human being is alien!!!
and it’s obvious Sturgeon a liking for the highest office for both Smith and MacDonald……..I kind of said it all in that
How much loyalty can the SNP NOW buy?
The biscuit tin is empty.
The SNP are relying on donations for funding, If books did actually exist,
Would they show ANY donations from the likes of Robertson and Wishart and Company? ..My goodness ,but they can really spend it
Has Sturgeon created a Cult in bout 6 years?
It seems to me she has,
I couldn’t think the name of the one that was a parallel but this did surface
Sturgeon “was originally a perfect angel who developed feelings of self-importance and craved worship.”
Do bad people simply attract bad people?
Hey Boyle 10.33am
Who made you this sites moderator Ya complete feckin leg waarmer?
You seem to do yer fair share of trolling on this site and sowing dissent .
As we know from the other night you have a complete sense of humour bypass and a strong whiff of taking yourself far too seriously.
Dae wan ya dafty.
@Garavelli Princip 11:10am: “The arithmetic that puts ALBA into seats on the list is predicated on maxing out SNP in the constituencies So the best way to ensure a YES supermajority IS SNP 1: ALBA 2 – in fact it is the only way. Pegs to noses folks!”
Spot on. There are some very dodgy accounts commenting here at the moment – the idea that ‘no votes SNP’ from Independentistas would represent ‘democracy’ is arrant bullshit. Democracy is using D’Hondt to get ALBA into a position in ScotParl to hold an SNP administration to account on using a supermajority in a way the Greens have failed to use holding a supply & demand balance of power over the SNP’s ability to legislate over the past five years.
Hey Thomas the Tank Engine, away back to your LadyBoy books.
@Garavelli Princip 11.10am
The issue is with the d’Hondt system, which is why I reckon Alba should as a priority insist on adoption of the Irish STV system.
A pro indy supermajority would be great of course, but for it to have any impact in terms of being able to use that majority to call fresh plebiscitary elections when the britnats say “now is not there time” again – as they inevitably will – it presupposes that the SNP will work with Alba. Sturgeon and hat cabal have made it abundantly clear they will not do so. So in a scenario where Alba held the balance they’d be faced with voting against an SNP minority administration or letting them have their way.
If d’Hondt were easier to predict we could try and surgically remove the worst of SNP constituency MSPs, but that’s not easy to arrange. I don’t want an SNP majority or SNP/Green majority as I genuinely feel it would be a threat not just to our fundamental liberties, but to any prospect of advancing our cause for the next 5 years.
The Dug is taking a break away from his blog for a while. its all too much for him, his supporters are in meltdown at the thought of his departure.
gullaneno4 @ 10.20
‘Are the Alba supporters on here who said that they would never again vote SNP still following that road or has Salmond’s advice changed their minds.’
– Still No from me.
After six years glorifying ‘oor ain wee tartan superhero’ as soon as aspiring replacements appear over the horizon we prepare to make the same mistakes again. Using their favourite cliché, it’s time to hold feet to the fire. Try asking questions and demanding answers. Here’s a start.
Q1: What’s in it for Scotland?
Q2: What’s in it for the politicians?
Q3: Where’s the money going?
Q4: Where’s the money gone?
Q5: Why is this bastard lying to me?
Those intending to vote SNP1, ALBA2 have good reason for doubt and should be deeply sceptical from now on.
Independence? Hold! Hold! Hold for the secret plan.
Xaracen, in other words, the only thing that has prevented your resignation is some irrational definition of loyalty or something.
“Obviously I am keeping that decision under review, as any sensible person would, and it is well that I did, given the fresh hope that Alex Salmond has just offered.”
Plenty of sensible people cancelled their membership. I’m one of them.
I literally have no idea what your line above about Salmond is supposed to mean. You do realise you would have the choice to re-join later on?
Absolute bonkers. I have zero sympathy for you and others like you who think there’s something noble about staying as members.
By blowing the one chance you have to express dissatisfaction with this shower of lowlife scumbags, you give them support and encouragement.
You are part of the problem. The writing was on the wall months ago, years even.
Instead of coming on here acting like some self-righteous torn victim, you should be here shamefully asking for forgiveness. Not, mind you, that anyone really gives a fuck. Because in the grand scheme of things what you or any of us do isn’t going to change the fact that the leader of your party has basically destroyed any chance we had of achieving independence in the next 10 years, quite possibly forever.
Mark boyle 10.33am
That was some wee list you made up there Mark.
Are you another one of these embarrassing gate keepers, or are you just the diddy from Orange County operating under a different name?
Are the posters on your list all campaigning for selected SNP candidates to lose their seats?
Can I ask you why it would be so wrong for Sturgeon to lose her seat?
Are you a Sturgeonista?
One of those who are ready to forgive Sturgeon, no matter what crimes she committed?
Colin Alexander says:
5 April, 2021 at 10:38 am
Breeks said:
“…based upon the Scottish Constitutional doctrine that the people are sovereign and Parliament cannot exempt itself from their scrutiny”.
Oh how I wish that part of your comment was true. Sadly it’s not. I’m not saying the people of Scotland are not ultimately sovereign but the court was ruling on the power of the UK executive to prorogue UK Parliament.
That is not my recollection. The matter was deemed beyond the jurisdiction of the UK Supreme Court, and the definitive logic behind why a “Sovereign” UK Parliament could NOT arbitrarily prorogue itself, was because it thus put itself beyond scrutiny of the sovereign people, thus it was the Scottish doctrine of popular sovereignty of the people which prevailed, not the top down English doctrine of Divine/ Crown sovereignty.
The British press downplayed the Constitutional ramifications, but you had a UK Prime Minister thus bound to respect an adjudication made in the Court of Session on a matter over which the UK Supreme Court had no jurisdiction, because the popular sovereignty of the Scottish people was a uniquely Scottish doctrine.
If that wasn’t the case, if Westminster was indeed sovereign, then Boris Johnson could have prorogued Parliament as he intended, nobody could have contested his right to do so, (at least not on the grounds Joanna Cherry used), and he could not have been bound to submit to the Court of Sessions adjudication.
I’m not a lawyer of course, and maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, but as Lord Cooper stated in the MacCormick v Lord Advocate that “the unlimited sovereignty of Parliament is a distinctively English principle which has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law”. Thus, a Parliament being held to scrutiny by it’s sovereign people could ONLY be a Scottish Constitutional doctrine prevailing to win the argument.
Orlando Quarmby @ 11.20am
‘There are some very dodgy accounts commenting here at the moment – the idea that ‘no votes SNP’ from Independentistas would represent ‘democracy’ is arrant bullshit. Democracy is using D’Hondt to get ALBA into a position in ScotParl to hold an SNP administration to account on using a supermajority in a way the Greens have failed to use holding a supply & demand balance of power over the SNP’s ability to legislate over the past five years.’
– You do realise that if the SNP have an outright majority, they can do what they like. They require no-ones help, and all the protesting from other parties will make no difference whatsoever.
– You should also realise that any use of a ‘supermajority’ would require the consent of the SNP as they will be the governing party and have the most seats.
-The SNP1Alba2 policy enables an SNP majority, in which there will be no ‘holding to account’ from any other party.
Breeks @ 11.34
I presume this was why the case was brought to a Scottish court ? Backs up what you are saying.
Hatuey said:
“Instead of coming on here acting like some self-righteous torn victim, you should be here shamefully asking for forgiveness.”
Wow! Get over yourself! We just disagree about some things, so what? I am not remotely answerable to you, so can it!
I’m voting SNP one last time for several reasons.
It maximises the chances for Alba to be elected.
I trust Alex to either get them back on track, or the existence of Alba will enable the remaining decent SNPers to decant, and because, in view of all he has been put through, if he can put country first, so can I.
My line in the sand, because Swinney is the Candidate in my area, is I will not provide the SNP with any money, nor will I assist Swinney in any way (other than my vote) – he can sink or swim on his own merits. I will however, assist another local SNP Constituency Candidate – one who I know to be 100% Indy and non Woke.
It’s not my area, and I’m not going to tell others how to vote – but if I were in Sturgeon, Robertson or Useless’s constituency – hmmm, then I think I would vote against them.
Bonny Prince Bob would get my vote. And for all those who say, tht’s not sensible – sensible, rational voting got us Mhairi Black – and look how that turned out.
Incidentally – come the GE – Wishart – No Way. Never again. Not even for Alex.
I understand completely those who say that the SNP/Scot Gov have hijacked and corrupted COPFS and Police Scotland – to that I would say, lot of very, very good people in both, it can and must be turned around. Only Scotland can do that – Boris/Gove/Moggie, The Met/ Westminster never cleaned anything.
And there seems to be a real anti EU thing started up. 62% of Scots never had an issue with the EU.
You know, that organisation that actually funded the building of roads in our Highlands and Islands areas,
You know, that organisation that introduced the Working Time Directive so that the emergency service I used to work for, was Forced to introduce better, healthier shift patterns, compared to the antiquated and deeply unhealthy 7Es, 4rds, 7Ns, 2Rds, 7Ls 3rs pattern.
Oh yes, and made it possible for folk to work part time almost as a matter of course, and thus prevented large numbers of women being lost to the service due to child care responsibilities falling on them for the most part.
That terrible EU, that insisted on cleaning up the waterways of raw sewage, that legally insists that pesticides are Proven to be unharmful BEFORE they are sold to the public, unlike in America where the onus is on the victims to prove damage caused before the product can be retracted from sale.
There’s an awful lot that the EU has delivered that we now take for granted. If it did not exist, business for a start, would be clamouring for an organisation similar, to be set up to do what it does.
And for all its got its faults – replacing it with Boris/Mogg/Patel/Gove and expecting anything other than right wing corruption is stupid.
An SNP/Green majority would be worse than a shaky unionist coalition.
There would be no progress on independence. Sturgeon is set on keeping in with the new world governance, build back better crowd. Their agenda already has nations marching in lockstep with the crushing of civil liberties, and has no interest in self-governance or regional exemtionalism. You could not slide a cigarette paper between Nicola and Boris’s covid response other than cosmetic tweaks. Her career is focused on her next role at an international organisation, diplomatically enforced idolisation, before too much of the shit hits the fan over here.
That means show us your papers, watch what you are thinking, net zero, pensioners with cold feet and numb hands, offshore windmills built by communist Chinese slaves in yards powered by the dirtiest of lignite coals and shipped across the world. Car travel priced and regulated out of existence for all but the rich, visiting your old dear to help around the house will become a rare treat, never mind the thought of a foreign holiday.
Ordinary working men, women and families will take second place to godless gender bending freaks.
Living standards, family finances and public services will plummet as the money printing finance secretary looks down and realises she has walked off the end of the cliff.
We cannot keep people locked up and working at home, passed by empty public transport vehicles, having the high street die in front of our eyes and consider that things are going to get better any time soon. We need to be working and creating industry and wealth.
Whoever is in power is going to be massively discredited when the chickens come home to roost, and if that has a nominal ‘independence’ banner on it, that will be what becomes toxic.
@ Tartanfever, re ‘– You do realise that if the SNP have an outright majority, they can do what they like. They require no-ones help, and all the protesting from other parties will make no difference whatsoever.
– You should also realise that any use of a ‘supermajority’ would require the consent of the SNP as they will be the governing party and have the most seats.
-The SNP1Alba2 policy enables an SNP majority, in which there will be no ‘holding to account’ from any other party.’
I share your concerns re SNP majority and have no doubts that the Britnats intend to keep Nicla in power.
However, I trust Alex and Alba to give them no hiding place. and build their status up to a position where the GE becomes the defacto IndRef2/Plebiscite Election.
That’s the game changer for me. With Niclas ‘Sometime Never Party’ – there is no arguing the case for Indy, none, no effort at all. Meanwhile Brexit is ripping the heart out of Scotland’s economy. Even Labour had the common decency to fight for Scotlands jobs during the Thatcher years.
The presence of Alba in Holyrood makes all the difference. It changes everything. The presence of the SNP alone in Holyrood changes absolutely nothing.
Breeks
The matter of the national sovereignty of the Scottish people can only be meaningful if that national sovereignty is able to be lawfully asserted. Which returns us to my question to you @ 9.38, viz, what is:
“…the lawful case for the majority of Scotland’s national elected representatives to withdraw Scotland from a treaty-based alliance. So why didn’t and hasn’t Ms Cherry done that?”
Clearly if Scottish national sovereignty exists in law, then a majority of Scotland’s elected national representatives should be lawfully entitled to assert it.
I’ll put my hand up to the hypocrisy of saying I wouldn’t vote SNP in May, but that I have changed my mind.
Prior to the ALBA party’s existence, I saw no other outcome stemming from the May Election than an apparent vindication of Sturgeon’s tenure as FM. There was nothing else at stake. No imminent referendum, no plebiscite Election, no Independence strategy, … nothing, except a tacit approval of a truly dismal situation, and worse, a thoroughly undemocratic and contrived mandate for Transgender nonsense exploiting the popular support for Independence to secure deeply divisive and unpopular mandates.
I could not in good conscience vote for that.
That all changed the instant the ALBA Party came into being. There was immediately a new initiative which was / is readily achievable, which has the capacity to radically alter what can be achieved in May beyond a reluctant and disingenuous vote of confidence in Sturgeon’s chaos.
A Holyrood Supermajority would blow the Section 30 Argument out of the water, if I remember correctly, a supermajority allows Holyrood to rewrite its own constitution, and hold a plebiscite, election, or plebiscite election whenever it chooses. That puts Scottish Independence back where it belongs, in the palm of our hands.
It is a massive empowerment for the Independence movement, it moves the goal posts well within striking distance, and it circumvents the entire forest fire currently scorching the feathers of every pigeon flying over Bute House.
It doesn’t let Sturgeon off the hook.
I described it earlier as an extension to the “borrowed time” Sturgeons political career is currently living on, which postpones that crisis until after the Election, thus hopefully, making a supermajority a reality.
You will remember Leslie Evans is being taken to Court by Mr Salmond, and the possibility of that action escalating to wider affect hardly needs to be stated.
So, all things considered, while I might be accused of hypocrisy for being ardently against voting SNP to suddenly being fervently in favour of SNP 1 and ALBA 2, the landscape is now utterly unrecognisable following the devastating optimism caused by that little hand grenade of hope which Alex Salmond lobbed into an otherwise desperately dismal situation.
SNP 1 ALBA 2. Vote for a Supermajority.
Leave Leslie Evans, (and Sturgeon by implication), to Alex Salmond’s lawyers. It can all wait. Our focus in May must be on that all import supermajority, and for it to happen, we must understand the vital symbiosis of the SNP doing well in Constituency Seats and ALBA doing very well in the List Seats.
Breeks
That’s the very point that’s key to the case: Parliament did not decide to prorogue itself, arbitrarily or otherwise.
The UK Govt DID indeed argue that Parliament had prorogued itself: That argument was rejected by the Court.
The Court explained the decision to prorogue was made by the UK Govt who advised the Queen of this and so that’s why Parliament was prorogued when the Queen instructed Parliament to prorogue.
But, Parliament had played no part in the decision to prorogue.
———————————
You are quite correct to praise Ms Cherry though. It’s a point that should be made to unionists too. The case is VERY important.
It took an SNP MP to defend UK democracy.
Boris Johnson was acting like a tyrant, trying to prevent democratic scrutiny of his Govt. UK Parliament failed to stop him acting like a tyrant king when he suspended UK Parliament.
It took Joanna Cherry (and Gina Miller) to stop Boris Johnson from suspending democracy so he could be held accountable to Parliament.
Joanna Cherry defended UK democracy from the tyranny of Boris Johnson’s UK Govt.
Fergus says:
5 April, 2021 at 11:14 am
Don 11.94am
Didn’t you know, Ruby is,,,
SNP 1 ANNNNNNNNNND 2.
No kiddin, there are STILL people out there who think Sturgeon done no wrong.
\REPLY
The Kcor/Andy sockpuppet got another account.
@Breeks 12.20pm
There is a flaw in your cunning plan. I understand the concentration on the super-majority narrative, and think Alex and Alba have been clever about making it the central message. It does indeed send a signal. However in practical terms it only really makes a difference if it is used to good effect in challenging and bypassing any attempted British nationalist veto on #indyref2. That in turn presupposes the SNP (and possibly the Greens as well) co-operating with Alba.
The only scenario in which that really plays out is where Alba holds the balance of power. If it doesn’t, it will simply be sidelined. In fact I have little doubt that such is the unreasoning hatred of the Sturgeonista Loyal that they would sooner do a deal with a unionist party than Alba to keep themselves in government.
IMO the SNP will receive a bloody nose at the election.
Key people could loose their seats.
The message sent will be that the “woke” policies sponsored by the Sturgeon clan and their “Green”allies are not wanted and that corruption will not be tolerated.
Alba will get seats and will force the SNP to clean up their act and focus on independence.
Alf Baird says:
5 April, 2021 at 12:05 pm
Clearly if Scottish national sovereignty exists in law, then a majority of Scotland’s elected national representatives should be lawfully entitled to assert it.
Yes. I believe the quite properly are.
But asserting it, and having it Internationally recognised isn’t the same thing.
While I myself would throw the Union into reverse on the strength of a Constitutional Test Case, I’m not deaf to those arguments that this might not be enough, and might even fail if the legally Constitutional argument is not the view of the majority in Scotland.
Maybe that’s why Joanna Cherry hasn’t pressed the nuclear Constitutional button.
The urgency which I see, is that for 300 years, Scotland could be quite laid back about’s status within the UK Union, knowing that it has a Constitutional ejector seat – Sovereignty. Just mentioning the Claim of Right was traditionally enough to put the Westminster colonialists on the back foot.
But since the establishment of Holyrood, and the Scotland Act mini constitution, which many misguided (and/or wilfully mischievous) people are superimposing over Scotland’s sovereign Constitution, it is my firm conviction that Scotland’s Constitutional integrity has been, and is being, dangerously eroded and increasingly encroached upon. – For goodness sake, how much worse could it be? Scotland was Unconstitutionally subjugated by Brexit, and Holyrood capitulated without a struggle and acquiesced!!!
And unfortunately, Sturgeon’s SNP Government seem to be oblivious to the dangerous unconstitutional precedents they are setting through their own incompetence and complicity with the Scotland Act, and it’s “mother” Parliament, Westminster.
I fear we will NEVER overturn the colonial adventurism of Westminster until we have a Scottish Government which properly understand’s the Constitutional landscape as defined by law, not merely “established” convention.
“… it is legally possible for the UK Government to react to the passage of a Bill in the Scottish Parliament by making a reference and then persuading the UK Parliament to amend the Scotland Act so as to render the Bill invalid.” Lord Reed, then Deputy President of the Supreme Court.
When we elect MSPs to the Scottish Parliament they take the money and accept our subjugation without question.
@Alf Baird 12.05 pm & Breeks 12.46pm
It’s not (quite) that simple. The international community won’t recognise the independence of an entity like Scotland, Catalonia or Quebec without a clear majority of the people (not their elected representatives, as that may not = >50% of the potential vote) voting in favour of a clear proposition for independence.
A supermajority of MSPs in Holyrood isn’t enough on its own. The value of the supermajority as far as I see it lies almost solely in its power to force new Holyrood elections in the event of a britnat veto of #indyref2. Even that presupposes the SNP are playing ball, which is by no means a given sadly! 🙁
Sorry folks, I feel like I’ve written a book this morning, and I’m hogging the conversation, but I mentioned an important word there… symbiosis.
ALBA and the SNP are in a symbiotic relationship. Their fate and success is intertwined. The better one does, the better it is for the other, and vice versa. We co-exist to help each other co-exist.
I do want Sturgeon brought to book for what she’s done, but I wouldn’t squander a clear shot at Scottish Independence just to make it happen. She’ll get what’s coming to her, but there are exceptional reasons why that’s postponed until after May.
If the SNP vote dominates in Constituency seats, the SNP can expect no List Seats. That’s where ALBA steps in to stop those List seats the SNP cannot win falling to Unionist Parties. But to do that, ALBA needs the SNP voters putting ALBA as their List choice. Without that support, ALBA won’t deliver 20+ List seats.
If the SNP loses dominance in the Constituency seats, because we ‘malcontents’ won’t vote for it, the worse it does, the more entitlement a weakened SNP has for List seats, and the worst result possible is the SNP not dominating at all in the Constituency vote, and fighting for votes with ALBA. Instead of a supermajority, we’ll have a hung Parliament and need a coalition just to keep control.
We all have to get out and vote, and Vote SNP on the Constituency ballot, and ALBA on the List. That is THE formula for a Supermajority.
Reading through the replies to my comments on not voting for the SNP in the constituency vote, I’m struck with an inconsistency that to me anyway, seems completely illogical.
I’ve heard the argument ‘vote snp1alba2 to make the SNP more accountable’ or to ‘hold their feet to the fire’ or similar.
Except that this strategy doesn’t do that.
This strategy increases the chances of an overall, outright SNP majority in their own right, with the power to enact all their own policies and agendas, regardless of how many Alba MSP’s there are or how loudly they shout in opposition.
Or, in the case of a ‘supermajority’ and using that to further the case for independence, not doing anything. I have absolutely zero faith that the SNP will use such an outcome to call for a plebiscite or referendum.
This is what the term of Nicola Sturgeon as FM has shown me.
I understand that most deem this an unmissable chance to further the cause, and in that respect, this is the only option available to do that. I agree with you.
I also understand that my decision to not vote SNP1 and only vote Alba2 will weaken the case for independence. I will hinder the cause.
However, I also understand that this is an election, not a referendum, and I will not support the policies of the SNP anymore. My voting for the SNP previously has enabled the harm of women’s rights and for that I will eternally feel ashamed.
I will not have my vote held hostage to policies I abhor.
Likewise, those who are voting SNP1Alba2 have to admit what their vote entails. There is no hiding from it or dressing it up. You are voting SNP and they will, quite rightly, see it as support for their policies. Your vote will further degrade the rights of women and of free speech.
The one thing that is undeniable, no matter our differences, the majority of posters on this site have been brothers and sisters for 10 years united in a cause.
In the last few years that has changed, and that has been at the hands of one individual, Nicola Sturgeon.
I will never harbour any bad feelings to the people here I disagree with, I ask you to be honest about the effects of our chosen voting preferences as I have been. I’m only sorry that we have been placed in this position.
In 2008 the UN General Assembly asked the ICJ to render an advisory opinion on ‘Is the unilateral declaration of independence by the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government of Kosovo in accordance with international law?’
From Written Statement of the UK and NI to the ICJs advisory opinion on “Is the unilateral declaration of independence by the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government of Kosovo in accordance with international law?”
The ICJ in its Advisory Opinion concluded that Kosovo’s UDI did not violate international law.
6.71 … The following points are emphasised:
(1) The question concerns international law, not the law of the predecessor State or the law applied in Kosovo prior to the declaration. All unilateral declarations of independence are by definition contrary to – or at least not provided for under – the law of the predecessor State.
(2) …
No principle of international law excludes the right of a people to secede, and when such is the case, the law of nations simply takes notice of the existence of the new state’. Professor Alain Pellet
There is no legal rule precluding secession … Secession also appears to be a political fact from which international law is content to draw conclusions when it leads to the establishment of effective and stable authorities.’ Professors Franck, Higgins, Pellet, Shaw, Tomuschat
@Thomas says: 5 April, 2021 at 11:14 am
“As we know from the other night you have a complete sense of humour bypass”
So you are now admitting it was your pseud?
Fergus says: 5 April, 2021 at 11:30 am
“That was some wee list you made up there Mark.”
Pretty obvious to most people on here it’s the same tedious cnts – having been a moderator for various forums over the years, you recognise the same infantile “techniques”. Hobby trolls always think themselves cleverer than they really are.
If Stu block access to this site by VPN, it would be the last we’d see of you and the rest running up more “personalities” than Sybil Dorsett.
Another wee question about the Scottish Government’s Constitutional approach might have something to do with a certain Lord Advocate being pals with Nicola Sturgeon… But that’s pure speculation without a scrap of evidence.
Breeks / Andy Ellis
You both refer to the need for international recognition’.
Remember, Scotland only remains in the UK alliance because of an international treaty. Moreover, Scots are already a sovereign people. Quebec and Catalonia or Kosovo and any other secessions are therefore quite different constitutional and legal matters and hence should not be used as a guide for us.
The international community will respect a lawful democratic process. If the majority of Scotland’s democratically elected national representatives are lawfully deemed to hold political sovereignty over Scotland, and may withdraw a sovereign Scotland from a treaty based alliance, then that is the end of the matter.
Previous UK prime ministers accepted that the election of a majority of SNP MP’s would be sufficient for Scotland to negotiate its UK withdrawal. It is only in recent years that a referendum has been proposed as another option.
Bottom line here, if I were an independence supporting Advocate MP uncertain about what Scottish sovereignty actually meant, I’d be keen to test all lawful options to secure Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK treaty based alliance, especially the most obvious option. Such a test could be done in a Scottish court, the latter only still in existence due to protections given in the same treaty.
Breeks,
Coincidentally your mention of “heresy” resonates with this day in the Ancient Egyptian calendar that I use. Herodutus called them the most religious of people. This day marked a new beginning (Sep Tepy) when the young King Tutankhamun consecrated the Restoration Stele which restored truth, justice and good order to the land after a period of chaos.
Sep Tepy goes hand in hand with absolution i.e. forgiveness of sins, the slate being wiped cleaned and a new creation. When the slate was wiped clean the reborn person could declare at the gates of eternity “I have not acted with deceit” (part of the text I read this morning).
I abhor what was done to Salmond by a corrupt Scottish establishment. I abhor deceit and that is how Salmonds Supermajority 4d chess move and his olive branch to Sturgeon reads.
@Alf Baird 3.25pm
The international community doesn’t care whether Scotland used to be an independent country which subsequently entered a 300 year union, whereas Catalonia and Quebec have never been independent. Most UN members and indeed EU members have no history of having been independent states either.
However much it might comfort geeks in Scotland and rUK to dance frantically on the head of a constitutional pin about the Treaties of Union, the Declaration of Arbroath, the sovereignty of the Scots people versus the asserted primacy of parliament in England etc. the international community doesn’t really care.
Of course no two cases are exactly alike, but the same basic principles apply to Catalonia, Quebec, Scotland or anywhere else. Pre Scottish parliament it was assumed that if a pro-independence majority of MPs was elected it would reflect a majority of Scots voters. As we saw in 2015, 56 of 59 Westminster MPs were elected by SNP for a fraction under 50% of the vote. In addition, the vote wasn’t held on the basis of it being a plebiscitary mandate.
The international community wouldn’t recognise that any more than they declared the PQ the victors when they narrowly lost the last referendum there.
We don’t need Advocate MPs testing lawful options, we just need >50% in a referendum or >50% in plebiscitary elections. If the britnats try to frustrate or veto the first, the latter is a necessary next step before we go for alternative methods. The international community expects pro-independence movements like ours to exhaust – and show that we have exhausted – all other reasonable means.
They’ll view not doing so as a case of UDI and apply different criteria (because we aren’t seen as being the subject of violence, genocide, or de-colonisation despite your fervid imaginings of “Scotland as colony”) as our friends in Kosovo found out. International recognition may still follow in those circumstances, but it is usually harder, takes longer and will not be accepted by significant numbers of other states.
Andy Ellis
It should not be a difficult matter to test if a majority of Scotland’s national representatives may lawfully withdraw Scotland from its own treaty-based UK alliance. An answer in the negative would at least have proven the colonialism thesis – i.e. political power over Scotland being held by another country, rendering treaty and sovereignty meaningless. An answer in the positive would have meant Scotland might lawfully withdraw, and could have done so in 2015 at the time of the first of three successive nationalist majorities, prior to brexit, the latter violating the treaty.
Our politicians and courts seem to be too busy with other, more pressing matters, than Scottish sovereignty and treaty-based alliances.
@Alf Baird 4.21pm
If the your answer is that the 56 SNP MPs at Westminster could have in 2015, then you’re just plain wrong, and the international community wouldn’t have recognised it. If we get a supermajority at Holyrood in May 2021, the international community wouldn’t accept that as a mandate for indy either. They WOULD however be likely to accept the election of a majority of pro-indy MSPs to Holyrood in (say) 2022 or 2023 (assuming the supermajority forces early elections) as a valid declaration of independence as long as it represented >50% of the vote and was clearly in response to being asked for a plebiscitary mandate.
The international community is entirely unconcerned with some folks fixation on the Treaties of Union, nor do they accept that Scotland’s attempt to become independent is a case of de-colonisation: they think the idea is laughable.
@Andy Ellis – sources please, without name calling.
‘Denunciation/withdrawal:
The two words are taken here as being synonymous: a State seeks to be released from the treaty obligations by a unilateral act whereby it declares its intention to no longer be a party to the treaty.’ Kolb 2016
Andy Ellis @ 4.31
I do think you rely rather too much on the obscure notion of ‘international community’, whilst at the same time ignoring the reality of the treaty and Scottish sovereignty, or indeed Scotland’s ongoing colonial domination under the guise of a ‘union’.
Following on from Ron Maclean’s points, the reality here is that a treaty can never be cast in stone for eternity for the simple reason that its relevance and import is inevitably bound by time and circumstance. Any treaty will only ever be upheld insofar as it serves the ‘national interest’. The international community know and understand this.
Here there is also the age-old argument of ‘alliance-determinism’ which assumes both effective international law and honorable alliance partners: however, “experts in international affairs would count those as among the most naive hypotheses imaginable” (Hamilton and Herwig 2004). In other words, a dishonorable alliance partner or some other failure provides reason to seek to end the alliance, and this is a matter for each treaty signatory, no-one else.
In this regard what the sovereign Scots do with their treaties is lawfully a matter for the Scots, much as the ECJ found in respect of the UK’s EU withdrawal, and the international community just has to lump it, as it has done with the UK’s EU withdrawal.
Fergus says,
“How could anyone honestly admit they’d be disappointed if Sturgeon lost her seat.”
The vast majority of posters here are openly dead against the ONLY way to make Sturgeon lose her seat.
If they can be so dumb despite regularly reading Wings over Scotland, what can we expect from the uninformed general population?
No wonder Sturgeon can so easily take everyone as fools – they are total morons.
Breeks says,
“Joanna Cherry TWICE took on the British Establishment, using the Constitutional power of Scots Law to rub the UK’s “Supreme Court’s” face in the dirt”
And how did that help the cause of independence?
She could have used “the Constitutional power of Scots Law” to confirm the “sovereignty” of Scots.
Did she help Martin Keatings in any way?
I stand by my point: Cherry has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to advance the cause of independence since she was elected MP.
Breeks, you have been banging on about the “sovereignty” of Scots for donkeys’ years.
There was not one person in Scotland who could put their money where their mouth was and go to court to get it confirmed, until Martin Keatings came forward.
The SNP, OF WHICH YOUR HEROINE CHERRY REMAINS AN MP, did everything it could to prevent Martin Keatings from succeeding.
Did Cherry open her mouth to publicly support Martin Keatings?
NO, SHE DID NOT.
Being a member of a Westminster committee is more important to her than the “sovereignty” of the Scots.
Don’t lecture me as to how good Cherry is.
@Republicofscotland 5 April, 2021 at 11:23 am
“The Dug is taking a break away from his blog for a while. its all too much for him, his supporters are in meltdown at the thought of his departure.”
Hhhahahahaah My Heart Bleeds (Not) Another one who can dish it out but can’t take it. I’m just suprised though he didn’t try to crowdfund to take out a Funeral plan too while the going was good.
If people don’t stop this in its tracks then in years to come when you see a commment like that from a politican it will be followed up by people in big boots with clubs, body armour and possibly guns kicking that person’s door down and making them dissappear. “Traitor to the party/state” or simply not even acknowledege anything happened to them or they existed in the first place afterwards.
It happens by inches and they push and push to see how much power and threat they can grab and use. It starts with creepy words and setting down the foundations with ideas like this.
You don’t wait until they have the power to make you go into a political prison or torture camp before you object or stop them any more than you should wait until you have hundreds of cockroaches in your kitchen before you think of doing something to stop that.