The unfinal countdown
Posted on
August 07, 2021 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 11-22
- 11-18
- 11-17
- 11-12
- 11-09
- 11-06
- 11-04
- 11-03
- 11-02
- 10-29
- 10-26
- 10-26
- 10-21
- 10-19
- 10-16
- 10-13
- 10-11
- 10-10
- 10-07
- 10-06
A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Scott, it’s ridiculous, people would never go with that.
.
Ron Maclean at 2.02 denies he is Rob Brown.
However, his persistent advertising of Rob Brown’s Jaggy Blog on Wings and this pair’s determination to destroy the Alba Party and Alex Salmond – the ONLY person since the Treaty of Union to secure an Independence Referendum for Scotland – is sickening.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Rev Stu., it really does seem evident Jaggy Blog is determined to damage the Alba Party which many of us begged Alex to start in order to get rid of the woke-captured Sturgeon Scottish Executive.
If Rob Brown and his mouthpiece/alias Ron had any honour, they would volunteer to help Alba sort out things he complains about. For example membership cards: why can’t Rob Brown go to Alba HQ and volunteer to do some physical or admin., work instead of carping on the sidelines (whilst self-promoting his own toxic blog). Incidentally I got my Alba Party membership card and number today, so the volunteers at Alba are making progress.
Many weary souls here at BTL Wings can see clearly that Rob Brown is yet another Sturgeon apologist who, for their own covert reasons are against the PROVEN leaders that want to secure Scottish Independence.
I never thought I would write this on Wings, but Stuart, some of us would feel relief if this website, Wings Over Scotland closed down for the next few years until we get an honest Fitst Minister who delivers what they promise: IndyRef2.
YOU could then reboot the Wings website and have something to apply that brilliant forensic and literary skill-set towards.
The Sturgeonites, now assisted by fake Indy supporters such as the self-named “TRUTHfal” lecturer from Fal mouth College (Rob Brown) would then be denied a major forum BTL upon which to peddle their nasty crap.
The upside for you Stuart, is you would no longer have to read screeds of BTL pish on your website to make sure NO STURGEONITE HERE IS FRAMING YOU TO BE THE NEXT ALEX SALMOND.
C’mon Rev., you’ve done your stint. Many times you have already paid a heavy price. Please don’t let the Trolls on your own BTL section give the Scottish Crown Office & Procurators’ Fiscal Service the excuse or power to do Nicola Sturgeon’s express bidding and have YOU arrested and imprisoned in her embryonic list of jailed political prisoners.
We all saw the evidence. Sturgeon’s unhinged rant when she appeared at that dreadful Zoom NEC meeting attended by her Zoomers and roasters.
Stuart, YOU and THIS WINGS WEBSITE were named by STURGEON. Buddy, she ain’t a fan of yours!
Sturgeon has shown by Craig’s prison sentence she WILL ensure political opponents feel her wrath.
I know not whether Rob Brown’s sudden conversion to becoming an anti-Salmond campaigner is the catalyst locus that will see you brought back to Scotland by Group 4 in their prison transport service vehicle with you on remand until trial. But I do know that Sturgeon has some form of plan to teach you a lesson and she wants you SILENCED before November.
Bad enough we witnessed the Sturgeonites try and jail Alex Salmond for life.
Horrendous to see what happened to Mark Hirst.
Sickening to observd the day Craig Murray was imprisoned.
Rev Stu., the Wings BTL section seems to have run it’s course and serves little constructive purpose during this hiatus. Unless you are 77th squaddie, or a rampant Unionist, or bent Sturgeonite.
For the Wings-haters, this BTL section is a breeding ground for the dirty tricks brigade.
It doesn’t take a high IQ to know upon whose back Nicola Ferguson Murrell, nee Srurgeon has personally placed the Bully Bulls Eye Target (she know you are a Buls Eye fan and likes irony). PLEASE think about this Stuart? You’ve already experienced the police at your door and all your computer kit seized as production/evidence. That was for a relatively small matter.
Now is a much bigger league. FFS, the corrupt FM of Scotia Banana Republic wants you in jail. Is it really wise to keep the idiots play-ground here at BTL open when YOU are the one who will be paying the price by joining Craig at HMP Covid?
Joe, there’s only one reality but there’s many ways to describe it.
Would the jungle be any more pleasant if you knew it was full of anacondas? I don’t think so.
Anacondas only attack you if you pester them and you’re less likely to pester them if you don’t know they’re there.
Al-Stuart says:
10 August, 2021 at 2:01 am
Now is a much bigger league. FFS, the corrupt FM of Scotia Banana Republic wants you in jail. Is it really wise to keep the idiots play-ground here at BTL open when YOU are the one who will be paying the price by joining Craig at HMP Covid?
—
The Rev. has already explained the legal situation wrt comments and moderation.
Nictating Sturgeon isn’t after someone in Bath, and btl comments wouldn’t aid her if she was.
Sounds more of a threat than a warning Al.
Where’s left if WoS, & comments, disappear?
That would, in my book, constitute the result of the decade for our yoon opponents.
Craig’s in jail, the dug’s sold out, and Stuart’s scunnered.
Someone has to keep the flame alive!
.
Hi Scott,
I take your point. You are absolutely correct. Right up to the point where something happens on Wings BTL as HAS now happened on Craig Murray’s Blog.
I GUARANTEE you that COPFS will be monitoring and screenshotting Craig’s Blog.
Insult will be added to injury because a relatively innocent person was “trolled” into what can now be competently described as contemptuous of court on Craig’s Blog. Depending on your point of view that can then be used to help permanently shut Craig down.
Craig is bravely keeping the flame of free speech alive, and he really will end up being “Assanged”.
Anyone who thinks Stuart is home free is not paying sufficient attention to the horrendous state of the Scottish legal system.
Or am I imagining what is now fact: Craig Murray is in prison. He will not be the last political prisoner.
——-
Hugh Jarse,
Sorry, I have difficulty taking anyone with that moniker seriously. You suggest I am threatening Stuart. Unfortunately, modern technology such as texts and social media comments omit the crucial non-verbal communication element of body language.
Stuart has all of our email addresses and contact details, he will be aware of private donations and emails of support. Stuart knows who has his back and cares what happens to him.
Hugh. My only concern here is the risk Stuart is in with this Wings Over Scotland BTL comment section.
My comment above was triggered by Craig Murray leaving his BTL section open and an inexperienced moderator in charge whilst there ARE trolls on there winding genuine Independence supporters into committing contempt of court whilst the website owner is currently serving a jail term.
I give you evidence from Craig’s blog…
QUOTE:
“Lady Dorrian is a shit”
UNQUOTE.
Hugh whatever your position, if someone commits a contempt of court on a website controlled by someone such as Craig or Stuart, are you very confident that in this climate the people we have read and supported are safe?
I want to be clear so you haven’t misunderstood my words above. It’s late and they could have been written better…
My concern is the safety of Stuart Campbell. He is very good but not all-seeing. It is likely Stuart missed the contempt of court that was posted on Craig’s Blog.
My worry for Stuart and Wings is that it would be very easy to slip in something dangerous BTL whilst Stuart is concentrating on his life elsewhere.
I trust this clarifies the earlier post.
Al-Stuart says:
10 August, 2021 at 4:06 am
.
Hi Scott,
I take your point. You are absolutely correct. Right up to the point where something happens on Wings BTL as HAS now happened on Craig Murray’s Blog.
I GUARANTEE you that COPFS will be monitoring and screenshotting Craig’s Blog.
—
Craig isn’t responsible for the comments of others. He’s currently in prison.
He won’t be punished further for the comments of others, even if they appear on his blog.
He hasn’t encouraged anyone to breach a court order.
You appear to be worrying too much.
.
P.S. Hugh Jarse,
You have a very good point that if Wings BTL is switched off temporarily until November or whenever we get an honest First Minister, then where can AUOB and YES Indy supporters comment?
On Iain Lawson’s site or Barrhead Boy until the Alba Party get properly up and running.
The important point NOW in the current 1984 political prisoner environment is that we keep our leaders safe. Craig is in prison and unable to moderate his BTL. His stand-in is like a fluffy rabbit in a lions’ den. About to get eaten alive!
Meanwhile Stuart is rebuilding his life and probably not checking BTL more than two or three times a day.
I worry at how easy it would be for a miscreant to plant contempt of court material or frame Stuart.
The guy is taking a very well deserved break and if he misses a comment that is planted here (even just for an hour) then COPFS screenshot that contempt of court comment, we have another Salmond/Hirst/Murray case.
It up is a glaring fact Sturgeon has named this website and Stuart Campbell as in her “sights”.
I hope that the Alba Party will develop their own website and interactive blog. Especially given the power of social media. You, me and everyone who supports Scotish Independence can comment there. Safely.
.
Hi Scott,
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I really wish you were right and that I am “worrying too much”.
Having served as a law officer and with friends in the Faculty of Advocates, there is legislation being drafted so that Bloggers ARE held legally responsible for what is published on their websites.
Not just wee websites. Creepy Zuckerberg is getting busted with his mantra that “Facebook is a platform not a publisher.” It’s part of Woke Theory. That was born in America and is coming to the UK. Scotland gets experimented with new laws first. Remember the Poll Tax!
Scott, with the greatest respect, I am not worrying too much. Let me reframe that.
We just watched the finest First Minister Scotland ever had, get arrested and put through Hell.
We just witnessed Craig Murray get jailed.
In the present climate the old adage applies: “Those who fail to learn from the mistakes from history are condemned to repeat them.”
I just don’t trust Scottish Law at this time. I have little faith in the Scottish Executive, nor Nicola Sturgeon and her gift of promoting judges at the highest court of the land.
Scott, it would please me greatly if I am wrong. You can call me all the worry warts under the Sun. But I’ve worked in law for a long time and put many people behind bars (legally – it was my job).
So based on that experience, skill set and knowledge base, I think just now, everyone needs to be a little bit more careful.
I do trust Scots Law.
I understand its simplicity, despite not putting anyone behind bars.
Once any new “strict liability” law comes into effect would be the time to worry, not beforehand.
Would it work in both directions?
eg If the cure for cancer was published in the comments would the Rev. get a share of the profits?
Testing
I’m getting the following message when I try to connect to Wings
“Your connection is not private
Attackers might be trying to steal your information from wingsoverscotland.com (for example, passwords, messages or credit cards). Learn more”
I think Stu might need to fix something.
I took the unsafe option and connected to Wings.
I have no credit card details on Wings. I doubt attackers would want my password & I have no messages.
The not secure message could deter people from connecting.
Tried Firefox and got the following
Warning: Potential Security Risk Ahead
Firefox detected an issue and did not continue to wingsoverscotland.com. The website is either misconfigured or your computer clock is set to the wrong time.
It’s likely the website’s certificate is expired, which prevents Firefox from connecting securely. If you visit this site, attackers could try to steal information like your passwords, emails, or credit card details.
What can you do about it?
The issue is most likely with the website, and there is nothing you can do to resolve it. You can notify the website’s administrator about the problem.
It’s quite pathetice – their shenanigans OR has Wings forgotten a bit of paperwork?
I don’t do online banking here and if they can find any cash I’d be delighted to know about it:-)
link to m.youtube.com
The security services are attacking this site.
Pixywine says:
10 August, 2021 at 9:23 am
The security services are attacking this site.
Reply
This shows the difference between you and I.
You immediately jump to the conclusion ‘that security services are attacking this site’ and I am going with the idea that ‘the website’s certificate has expired’
Any number of reasons the site is unavailable
but it just goes to show you how easily we can be cut off and disconnected and thats why the house arrest was a very useful tool
The demonstration yesterday being portrayed as a case of mistaken identity by the MSM ( ITV instead of the BBC ) well just goes to show these people have lost the plot when they cant even find the right TV studio yeh yet more propaganda shite .
Al-Stuart says:
“Creepy Zuckerberg is getting busted with his mantra that “Facebook is a platform not a publisher.””
Possibly, but here’s an alternative theory:
Zuckerberg is a front man, a figurehead. Facebook’s purpose is to gather personal information on its users and to influence their opinions. Facebook wants to increase its powers to ban opinions which challenge the mainstream narrative. Accordingly, we are bombarded with reports of racist and extremist posts on Facebook so that we will support, nay demand, legislation which controls which opinions are allowed. Zuckerberg isn’t being busted, he is an actor in an charade designed to deplatform views such as are often expressed on this blogsite.
Same goes for Twitter.
We had the same message when we tried to connect.
Until we hear from stu, we will be none the wiser.
I don’t think anyone’s attacking the site, Stu’s probably not renewed the security certificate
It’s either the security services or the security certificate. My money is on the former.
The site’s on its way to becoming a hook-up joint for transgendered MI5 agents, just like LaBore Hame and Ginger’s joint.
We’ll just need to adapt, I guess.
I wonder what triggered it. We can rule out anything anti-vax related. Then there’s the usual crackpots, Joe, Al, etc., nothing to worry about there.
The bikini resort in space stuff probably done it…
I can’t see me voting for greens or the snp in the future, l
Both parties are wrecking Scotland and human rights with their policies faster than the opposition.
Having said that I would not vote for the opposition either. All parties seemed to be joined at the hip behind the scenes,
I could see myself avoiding voting at all as a protest of our political party choices, unless something drastic happens, like a new party stepping up to the plate.
link to m.youtube.com
Spread this far and wide.
Ruby. Well bully for you lady.
Thanks Pixy. He seems rather convinced about the efficacy of the vaccine.
Have you had enough of the dark side?
The Scottish NHS report on the pandemic has been deeply criticised by a public health expert.
The report apparently hasn’t even been authored, there are no foot notes, no references or bibliographies, which is very unusual. Which meant that readers cannot check or gain information from backgrounds sources.
The (WHO) World Health Organization is completely ignored in the report even though it has produced detailed guidance and case studies on Covid.
There is no information as to why the Scottish government failed to introduce lockdowns in early 2020. It also failed to draw on vital international information on the pandemic, and adopt earlier successful global measures. Other failing, of the Scottish government, highlighted by the health expert were, its over centralisation on decision making and delivery models without consulting local health departments.
I can only suggest that Sturgeon’s popularity on the her and her governments handling of the Covid pandemic, though no better than the rUK is due to her tv briefings in which she came across as more caring and dare I say trustworthy, and not because she handle the pandemic any better, she didn’t.
AS expect the Scottish government has jumped to the defence of the report
As child and fuel poverty in the UK continues to rise and Westminster agrees to spend billions on renewing nuclear weapons, not use but to make sure they keep their position on the UN Security Council, Boris Johnson has spent one-hundred thousand pounds on art for Ten Downing street of which a percentage of it has been paid for by the taxpayer.
Speaking of Johnson, it would appear that his disdain for Michael Gove has abated and that there has been talk of Gove replacing Priti Patel as Home secretary. Johnson is miffed at Patel because she hasn’t got a handle on how to stop immigrants crossing the Channel to England yet.
The new Nationality and Borders Bill, make it a criminal offence for anyone (though its aimed at immigrants) arriving in the UK without permission, the bill has passed its second reading in parliament. The bill will give Border Force agencies the powers to turn-around boats carrying migrants, and allow them to use force to do so.
Thanks to the malicious COPFS of which we have seen at fist hand, the Scottish taxpayer will now need to fork out £6.4 million pounds to ex-Rangers FC director Charles Green, on top of this the Scottish taxpayer will also need to pay Mr Green’s court costs.
Already, and not including Mr Greens’ award, Scottish taxpayers have forked out over £21 million pounds to, two ex-Rangers FC directors, and their court costs, for malicious prosecution by the COPFS.
Surely the COPFS requires a complete overhaul, in business these people would be fired on the spot for acting in this manner, and costing the business a fortune.
So Prince Andrew, one time close friend of Jeffery Epstein, is being sued.” Ms Giuffre sued Andrew under the Child Victims Act, a New York state law.”
“Her complaint, signed by her lawyer David Boies, accused Prince Andrew of battery and intentional infliction of emotional distress. It seeks unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.”
It will be interesting to see how Prince Andrew squirms his way out of this one, I’m sure mummy will be on hand if need be, if the allegations stick.
link to rte.ie
“Jailed Salmond blogger Craig Murray no longer a member of the SNP, party says”
link to archive.is
It’s becoming more and more obvious that Scotland needs ALBA to be there to get our independence
Israel and Iceland? Wait a minute weren’t those the guys that were boasting the other week about how they’d vaccinated nearly everyone?
This can’t be right, I mean, everybody knows vaccines work right?
link to eu.usatoday.com
Brian Doonthetoon says:
10 August, 2021 at 2:13 pm
“Jailed Salmond blogger Craig Murray no longer a member of the SNP, party says”
link to archive.is
Reply
Pretty rubbish piece of investigative journalism by Alistair Grant.
Did the SNP kick him out?
What were their reasons for kicking him out?
link to archive.is
“Iain Macwhirter: So what will independence be if SNP no longer protect freedom of speech?”
Lots of comments on this article.
Ruby @2.07pm.
Thanks for the link, reading MacWhirter’s excellent take on the ridiculous HCB, its patently obvious that unlike the OBFA, it needs to be repealed, before it does some serious damage in society, Scots should be protesting in large crowds outside Holyrood until its a goner.
Republicofscotland says:
10 August, 2021 at 4:35 pm
reading MacWhirter’s excellent take on the ridiculous HCB, its patently obvious that unlike the OBFA, it needs to be repealed, before it does some serious damage in society, Scots should be protesting in large crowds outside Holyrood until its a goner.
—
The easiest way to protest in Scotland is to take legal action.
Did you send your comment from outside Holyrood?
radgie gadgie says:
10 August, 2021 at 11:12 am
Al-Stuart says:
“Creepy Zuckerberg is getting busted with his mantra that “Facebook is a platform not a publisher.””
Possibly, but here’s an alternative theory:
“Zuckerberg is a front man, a figurehead. Facebook’s purpose is to gather personal information on its users and to influence their opinions. Facebook wants to increase its powers to ban opinions which challenge the mainstream narrative. Accordingly, we are bombarded with reports of racist and extremist posts on Facebook so that we will support, nay demand, legislation which controls which opinions are allowed. Zuckerberg isn’t being busted, he is an actor in an charade designed to deplatform views such as are often expressed on this blogsite.
Same goes for Twitter.”
——-
Completely agree.
Same certificate failings when trying to access this site few minutes ago.
So it turns out that Sheikh Mohammed king of the oppressive regime and holiday resort Dubai, and close friend of the Queen and benefactor of English horse racing, in which one insider said, that English horse racing would collapse without his cash inputs to it, has been training and funding proxy fighters in Libya and Yemen.
The Queens, close friend, is also the Prime Minister of the UAE, as well as the Vice President of the UAE, and the Defence Minister of the UAE, and as well as kidnapping his own daughter, Sheikh Mohammed, has been accused of torturing hundreds of Yemeni’s from 2015 onwards. Despite this knowledge the governing body of horse racing in England turns a blind eye to their benefactors activities.
Re the security warning on entering WoS.
The security certificate for the site expired on 9th August.
However, the site is encrypted so unlikely that anyone has intercepted the page on its journey through the leccyweb. (Via Firefox browser)
It isn’t the spooks at work here…just saying.
Further to the comments by the loathsome CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, I give you the estimable Roddy Dunlop QC.
“Rape crisis does amazing work. And I do not have their expertise or knowledge. But in my respectful view, there is nothing “bigoted” in a victim of sexual violence wishing a say on whomsoever is to provide counselling at what must be a horrendously traumatic time.”
link to twitter.com
If only Sturgeon and her cultists had an ounce of Roddy’s integrity and empathy!
Normality returns to Wings Over Scotland.
The security certificate is dead. Long live the security certificate.
Well that was a scare. I thought MI5 had taken control of Wings.Then I remembered they were keeping Nicky in power. Scare over.
@ Tannadice Boy: I was thinking they’d closed down Wings because I was so busy here yesterday advocating that several SNP members should submit applications to be Leader!!
I must admit, I thought the site had been ‘tampered’ with earlier. Glad it’s back.
Now, where were we? Oh yes, Independence, then Covid, then the master race.
Hatut. You support the Government not me. I’m on the correct side of History.
I support the Government? lol. News to me, poxy…
75% of UK adults are now double vaccinated. Data suggests 99.735% suffered only minor side effects.
No cases of cytokine storms killing anyone in the UK have thus far been recorded.
The whole economy is open again.
Welcome back to normal.
Having just read this I could weep for our children.
link to gtcs.org.uk
It’s not a big read, but i’d advise anybody with schoolchildren to take 10 minutes to absorb this woke-infested, SNP sponsored bile.
This is the handbook that Scotland’s teacher’s are now expected to adhere to diligently.
As you might expect the section on ‘Social Justice’ is front and centre and takes top priority above any traditional value like integrity(which is a mere footnote).
This is the stuff of dreams for this government – newly-qualified airhead millennials with zero life experience armed with a license to fill our kids’ heads with wokery.
At some point in the future we’ll forget that we ever sent children to school for an education.
RE: “The man-made crisis at Edinburgh Rape Crisis”
link to grahamlinehan.substack.com
Sarah 9:03pm
I know worrying times. Of course the SNP have enjoyed Carte Blanche without any redress. We can’t look to the Judiciary we can’t look to Police Scotland. The SNP think that won’t change. Good luck with that.
Hi Hatuey at 10:04 pm.
You typed,
“75% of UK adults are now double vaccinated. Data suggests 99.735% suffered only minor side effects.”
Does that mean that I, vaccinated in February and April with the Pfizer jags, am a lucky constituent of that minority of 0.265% who suffered no side effects?
Only 0.265% had NO side effects?
There’s not very many of us, is there?
What is the source for your “data”?
Case – `Stop the Scottish Government redefining “woman” to include men`
case brought by For Women Scotland
For Women Scotland (FWS) is a group of ordinary women from across Scotland who campaign to protect and strengthen women’s and children’s rights.
3 days to go
£190,735 raised so far.
link to crowdjustice.com
Brian Doonthetoon 10:49pm
You have got to remember Hatuey is a self declared troll. I bet you he regrets that post. We have all had the double jab. No side effects although one my children had a headache for a half of a day. Big deal for her but she was delighted to get her 2nd jab. All good here.
‘ 99.735% suffered only minor side effects.’
Seriously, do you just pluck these figures out of thin air when everywhere else states 25%?
“Does that mean that I, vaccinated in February and April with the Pfizer jags, am a lucky constituent of that minority of 0.265% who suffered no side effects?”
Ehhhh… If I thought you’d understand multiple regression, I’d happily explain it.
It’s science stuff. Nothing to worry about.
@Scot Finlayson 10:52pm
Hunky Dory where were you before the election? This site was awash with the dangers including numerous warnings from the site originator. You are a johnny come lately looking for money. The women of Scotland voted for the SNP. Don’t greet now.
“Seriously, do you just pluck these figures out of thin air when everywhere else states 25%?”
It depends, I suppose, on how you define “minor side effects”.
Each to their own.
My definition includes those who we can assume experienced virtually no side effects, and made no Yellow Card Report, and a bunch of other categories that I’d say were minor, including tiredness, fever, sore arms, sore joints, etc., that are “typically seen with most types of vaccine and tend to resolve within a day or two.”
link to gov.uk
Hatuey says:
10 August, 2021 at 11:28 pm
“Does that mean that I, vaccinated in February and April with the Pfizer jags, am a lucky constituent of that minority of 0.265% who suffered no side effects?”
Ehhhh… If I thought you’d understand multiple regression, I’d happily explain it.
It’s science stuff. Nothing to worry about.
—
Multiple regression isn’t an absolute, it’s analysis of data.
The more side effects reported, the greater the risk to the unvaccinated of experiencing at least one once they’ve had the first jag.
The risk of death exists.
The risk of your cock shrivelling to the size of a virus exists if that has been reported.
etc
Your patronising approach to being challenged doesn’t add any support to your assertions.
All medical treatment, including medication should be by consent, not those who’ve had 2 jags proclaiming “I’m alive, so shall you be”
I’ve not had the jag, because I chose not to.
My reasons for not taking it are as valid as yours for taking it.
I’m still alive and have had no side effects from the vaccines at all.
Still not seeing it Hatuey, but I’ll concede that many people will never report something that’s extremely trivial.
Anyway, my concern as you know, is the possible longer term effects – so we’ll just have to wait and see on that one.
@Scott 11:47pm
Until tonight I have scrupulously avoided talk of vaccines et al. Its OK for you to talk about your beliefs and your entitled to them. You don’t want the vaccine fine but do you mind if the rest of us have a different opinion? When I was on active service you would be the last person I would want standing next to me. It takes an old person to tell a young person that they would live forever.
Tannadice Boy says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:04 am
@Scott 11:47pm
When I was on active service you would be the last person I would want standing next to me. It takes an old person to tell a young person that they would live forever.
—
Yeah, you managing to still be alive proves how daft your analogy is.
As an aside, I wouldn’t have signed up for active service to stand beside you, because I’m not into being brainwashed into doing what I’m told and when.
That mentality is what breaks so many on their return to ‘civvy street’….there’s a permanent them/us, as evidenced by your need to introduce your strawman ‘action man’.
I had the decency to acknowledge the right to consent, please show me the same courtesy.
And then fuck off.
“All medical treatment, including medication should be by consent”
You know that isn’t true, don’t you? Did you consent to the hospital delivering you? I bet a good percentage of people who end up in hospital don’t (and aren’t able to) consent to treatment…
Hatuey says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:15 am
“All medical treatment, including medication should be by consent”
You know that isn’t true, don’t you? Did you consent to the hospital delivering you? I bet a good percentage of people who end up in hospital don’t (and aren’t able to) consent to treatment…
—
Being born isn’t a treatment and my guardians/parents had the right to consent on my behalf until I acquired the right to consent in my own right.
Define a good percentage.
Define the amount you want to bet.
Tip: Remember to identify those who couldn’t consent, but required emergency treatment.
Only a court order can mandate treatment on the individual. Until that time consent given can be withdrawn at any moment.
This applies to Scotland, not sure if it applies in the world where you live.
@Scott 12:11pm
Poor response Scott. And you shouldn’t swear. It belittles your argument. I wouldn’t stand next to you. Deal with that. A poor excuse of man is what I am thinking. But anyway you are not vaccinated so I definitely wont stand next to you. A feartie whatever. The rest of the population is braver than you but you are entitled to your opinion. Let’s hear for the selfish..
Tannadice Boy says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:24 am
@Scott 12:11pm
Poor response Scott. And you shouldn’t swear. It belittles your argument.
—
Does it fuck belittle my argument, you arrogant cunt.
@Scott 12:26pm
Time for bed for you. You are swearing and have lost all disposition. All my extended family are vaccinated. No determinable side effects pedal your trash elsewhere. This is an Indy site.
Tannadice Boy says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:38 am
@Scott 12:26pm
Time for bed for you. You are swearing and have lost all disposition. All my extended family are vaccinated. No determinable side effects pedal your trash elsewhere. This is an Indy site.
—
I’ll take no lectures from ex-squaddies who think 0026 hrs is the same as 12:26pm.
I’m not peddling trash, btw. I did not state that I refused the offer of a jag based on risk of side-effects. That’s a comprehension issue you have.
I chose not to accept the offer, as is my right.
I pose no more risk to you than any member of your extended family.
Keep fucking off.
@scott 12:45pm
I will leave it to the people of Scotland to decide it you are representative of their views.
@Hatuey says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:15 am
“All medical treatment, including medication should be by consent”
You know that isn’t true, don’t you? Did you consent to the hospital delivering you? I bet a good percentage of people who end up in hospital don’t (and aren’t able to) consent to treatment…
Medical treatment, unless in exceptional circumstances (ie unconscious and at risk of death), does require consent. Other exceptional circumstances include mental health and public health risks. Giving treatment without consent needs to be documented fully.
Tannadice Boy says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:56 am
@scott 12:45pm
I will leave it to the people of Scotland to decide it you are representative of their views.
—
You’ve done that thing with the time again. Are you in another timezone by any chance?
I represent my own views, I’m not seeking to claim ownership of anyone else’s.
Unlike you.
The army taught you how to be a fascist, whoda thunk it.
@Scott 1:01pm
You lost the debate a couple of hours ago. I live in Scotland for the moment same time zone as everyone that lives here. So where do you live Moscow? It’s the lack of local awareness wot undone you. I don’t want to stand next to you. In fact does anybody in Scotland?
Having been in the hallowed halls of a variety of hospitals for many months and over many years, I can confirm that any patient may refuse medication or treatment (if they are fit enough to know what’s happening and strong enough to put up an argument against people who ‘always know better’) but I’m not sure that they can choose another road not taken by the medics. So if consent means ‘take it or leave it’ then medical care is by consent:-)
Tannadice Boy says:
11 August, 2021 at 1:10 am
@Scott 1:01pm
You lost the debate a couple of hours ago. I live in Scotland for the moment same time zone as everyone that lives here. So where do you live Moscow? It’s the lack of local awareness wot undone you. I don’t want to stand next to you. In fact does anybody in Scotland?
—
I live less than 30 miles from Moscow and approximately 90 miles from Tannadice. And about 70 miles from Dundee.
I live in Scotland. Where 1:01 pm is not the same as 0101 hrs.
Back to normal.
Stu must have put ten bob in the meter.
🙂
“Remember to identify those who couldn’t consent, but required emergency treatment.”
“Medical treatment, unless in exceptional circumstances (ie unconscious and at risk of death), does require consent.”
This is an emergency. It’s a global pandemic. How exceptional do the circumstances need to be?
By definition, those who refuse the vaccine for conspiracy theory reasons are clinically unstable. And it would be irresponsible of us not to take their mental state into account.
There’s an argument here for forcibly vaccinating. In a democracy we can’t do that for some reason that I truly don’t understand. Short of that though we really need to give them as much encouragement as possible.
Vaccine passports, refusal of entry to shops and facilities, travel bans, benefits cuts, access to jobs, and possibly even fines, are all acceptable ways to nudge people in the right direction.
We can do this.
Hatuey says:
11 August, 2021 at 3:13 am
This is an emergency. It’s a global pandemic. How exceptional do the circumstances need to be?
By definition, those who refuse the vaccine for conspiracy theory reasons are clinically unstable. And it would be irresponsible of us not to take their mental state into account.
There’s an argument here for forcibly vaccinating. In a democracy we can’t do that for some reason that I truly don’t understand. Short of that though we really need to give them as much encouragement as possible.
Vaccine passports, refusal of entry to shops and facilities, travel bans, benefits cuts, access to jobs, and possibly even fines, are all acceptable ways to nudge people in the right direction.
We can do this.
—
In Scotland, consent is always assumed to be withheld.
Those who refuse the offer of covid jag aren’t asked to justify their decision.
Your desire to see mandatory vaccination, vaccine passports and restrictions placed on the unvaccinated won’t happen in Scotland.
There’d be a challenge at the Court of Session as soon as possible if my vaccination status was used against me.
You know fuck all about Scots Law based on any of your ramblings.
Don’t know about UK debt sinking an Independent Scotland, (what debt?), but how could an Independent Scotland afford the COPFS, costing it millions every other month?
link to archive.is
Who decides when the COPFS is not only being malicious in it’s pursuits, politicised in it’s bias, but actually being criminally negligent, with the Scottish nation always picking up the tab?
It seems Scotland needs a Constitutional Senate to robustly defend Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution from feckless, ignorant politicians, but simultaneously defend Scots Law from a feckless, biased, and malicious COPFS.
And the elephant in the room is this is about Rangers FC, not Alex Salmond’s disgraceful prosecution, Mark Hirst disgraceful prosecution, Craig Murray’s outrageous and disgraceful “prosecution” and nauseating incarceration.
It seems the dumpster fire passing itself off as government in Bute House has spread to the COPFS, or under Sturgeon and Wolffe, weren’t they one and the same thing anyway?
SCOTLAND NEEDS A CONSTITUTIONAL SENATE.
We MUST secure the Constitutional right in Law and supporting infrastructure to impeach these crooked wretches, who are profoundly damaging Scotland’s interests and integrity as a Nation, and have them expelled from office and facing prosecution themselves.
Only the people can do it, but the Claim of Right empowers the people to do it. All we lack is the infrastructure and protocols… the infrastructure and protocols of Scottish Constitutional Senate.
@Breeks – We created a Holyrood Parliament because everyone said that we needed a Parliament. In 20-years it is now full of liars and there is not one single MSP there that I would trust.
Roddy Dunlop criticized the Head of RCS the other days for calling everyone that doesn’t agree with him/her a biggot. Good for Roddy Dunlop. When was the last time he called an MSP or another lawyer a liar? Do you think he will ever do that and why not?
In the 20-years since Holyrood, it has turned into a en of corruption. Same with our civil-service and legal profession. What makes you thing a Constitutional Senate would be any different?
We need to prosecute a few in our public services before we try anything else. Otherwise, it won’t work. It will just make things worse.
@Tannadice Boy,
`Hunky Dory where were you before the election? This site was awash with the dangers including numerous warnings from the site originator. You are a johnny come lately looking for money. The women of Scotland voted for the SNP. Don’t greet now.`
like most on this site we were well aware of the Scot Gov/SNP gender issue because of Stu`s warnings,
others outside this site are beginning to take notice (to late ? ,hopefully not) and are fighting back,
i and hopefully others would like to help them fight back against this misogyny,
help or don`t help but please don`t put others off from helping.
`johhny come lately` cheeky c@nt 🙂
Someone made the moment that security services are attacking the Wings over Scotland site. I would think that improbable.
What the security services will do is monitor the site. Monitor the comments and who is making them. Watching and understanding what is being said, understanding sentiment is their business. And if need be they can infiltrate the comments section.
And then of course on other sites the security services may actually control the sites.
We are all being watched. And of course with the sites that the establishment really don’t like, or like political leaders they don’t like, well the police and prosecution, with or without the help of the security services then try to jail their opponents.
We live in a very dangerous, in fact murderous country, and no one should be in any doubt about the malignancy of the Bfitish state. Salmond, Hurst, Murray, Singh, Thompson, Millar et al are but a tickle.
We under estimate the viciousness of the British state at our peril, and currently they are winning trying to suppress our movement. But they, in the end, like in all of the past British colonies, will not ultimately succeed.
It’s warfare, plain and simple, but without the killing – or at least yet. But Northern Ireland should show us how it works. Rosemary Nelson and Pat Finnucane were both pesky civil rights lawyers who were a thorn in the side of the establishment. Both were shot dead by agent understood to be acting under the instruction of the shadowy Force Research Unit commanded by Gordon Kerr.
Working alongside the RUC, the Special Branch, and MI5 this covert army was established to have been involved in killing not just these two lawyers but other innocent civilians too.
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 8:44 am
In the 20-years since Holyrood, it has turned into a en of corruption. Same with our civil-service and legal profession. What makes you thing a Constitutional Senate would be any different?
Because it wouldn’t have power or remuneration, but simply the “Roman thumb” protocol of declaring a thing Constitutional or Unconstitutional.
If a “government” motion or action was deemed to be unconstitutional by the Senate, the disputed action or motion should be taken to the people as a referendum. (Yes, Scotland could and should embrace referendums as commonplace. The people are sovereign. With modern tech, this shouldn’t present any problem). And yes, perhaps the Senate would have the authority to sponsor a referendum.
If the “government” refused to comply, it might then be impeached, and for want of a better word, “excommunicated”, or denied the warrant of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and declared an “Outlaw” Government, comparable in status to the Vichy French Government.
Holyrood is corrupt because there is no censure or impeachment protocol to address or fight the corruption. There is no self defence mechanism.
The Union is corrupt because Scotland is stripped of it’s right to bear sovereignty. There is no self defence mechanism.
The only power left to Scotland’s people is the brutal sanction of not-voting for someone in five years time. For a sovereign people in the 21st Century, that is beyond farcical.
Breeks
A Constitutional Senate!!
You posted this previously. I asked you who would decide who is a member of the Senate? The current SG? the SNP? an election? What ‘qualifications’ would a Senate Member require?
Pie in the sky stuff.
Captain Yossarian is correct. Until we root out some in Public Services and the majority of incompetents in the SG nothing will change. It is embarrassing to watch the SNP scrambling to get the loons in the Green Party on board to continue their failed policies. What position are they going to give Garvie? I suppose he could take over from Swinney who has made a mess of everything he has been involved in. I think the Supreme Leader sees him as an auld faithful dug but does not have the heart to put him down. However, if push comes to shove, she will, if only in an attempt to save her own skin!
link to archive.is
“According to the Daily Mail, the duke was seen arriving at the royal Scottish retreat of Balmoral Castle on Tuesday evening and was thought to have been accompanied by his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson.”
Another couple of royal visitors to Scotland.
I don’t think they are here to ‘save the union’
Breeks @ 8.06
Must admit after watching the news last night, I begun to wonder if there isn’t a mini plot for Cops to quietly bankrupt Scotland via these massive payouts for malicious prosecutions.
Rangers payouts alone nudging £30 million.
The horrifying truth is in Scotland these days you only get justice if you can afford it. Without crowdfunders, what will happen to all the Mark Hirst’s and Marion Millar’s to come?
Cue countless malicious complaints with the newly minted HCB.
link to bitchute.com
Its good to know the rich never get stopped by Customs.
Hatuey missed the point of Rand Paul’s speech and that is freedom of choice.
Mist001 says:
10 August, 2021 at 9:10 pm
I must admit, I thought the site had been ‘tampered’ with earlier. Glad it’s back.
Reply
Interesting! Like ‘Pixywine’ you immediately came to the conclusion that ‘the site had been ‘tampered’ with’
The sanction of not voting for someone in five years time is precisely where we are at the moment Breeks.
Voting delivers no sovereignty whatsoever. A helpless, hapless electorate getting whatever the establishment want to serve up to them is our fare.
And woe betide any agitators who try to change the political scene for jail or worse is their fate.
And so as we jail or attempt to jail, as we see our police, prosecution and civil service as the corrupt arms of oppression, and as we now see out of Europe a country with empty food shelves, industries starved of materials such as cement to make concrete, and hyper inflation coming out of the wings to slash the value of pensions and savings – what do we do, what is our political response.
Ah Nicola Sturgeon and her band of hardworking heroes, they’ll turn it round – aye right!
Hatuey uses the same language as Gov. He’s a Government agent..Hatuey your Tory Government are losing. You are losing and who ever comes to my door with a Gates “vaccine” medical experiment is going to lose also. Being from Niddrie I’m used to dealing with front door violence.
@Breeks – Holyrood is corrupt because the MSP’s there have had 20-years to work-out what they don’t have to do. They don’t have to do it and so they don’t do it and they do not want to do it.
The only thing they excel at is lying and at the moment they represent probably the most corrupt administration there has ever been anywhere in Europe.
Ask Roddy Dunlop what he thinks of it all? He’s already said that James Wolffe is the most honest man he has ever come across. So, even Roddy Dunlop, the poster-boy of superior Scots everywhere, is a spoof, isn’t he?
I followed a twitter link re ‘Mridul Wadhwa’ and ended up watching an unbelievable rant by Neil Oliver.
Holy shit! that man is angry, bloody ragin’
I might tune into to GBNews to watch more of his dramatics.
It’s quite funny to watch a grown man having a tantrum!
Not sure what set him off this time!
Craven coward politicians are clearly taking orders from the criminal bank cartels. Imagine allowing yourself to be fooled and used as lab rats. We’re all being bammed up by the criminal political class. Don’t forget. The so called ” opposition” in Parliament are signed up to this Fascism as well.
Pixywine says:
11 August, 2021 at 9:54 am
Hatuey uses the same language as Gov. He’s a Government agent.
Reply
Your ‘paranoia’ is showing again Pixywine.
The Scottish government granted licences to shoot 115 Beavers in Scotland last year, Beavers have European Protected Species Status.
This comes on top of the culls of Ravens which I think is to protect Grouse chicks on landed estates in Scotland owned by the chinless wonder brigade. We also have the mass slaughter of Hares in the Highlands presumably to try and remove a food resource of raptors, that might take a Grouse chick or adult bird.
The Scottish government has mismanaged Scotland’s flora and fauna, and as expected from an ever increasingly capitalist minded government, they kowtow at will to land owners wishes in Scotland. Sturgeon even voted with the Tories against Andy Wightman’s land reform bill, that would change the way land is valued in Scotland.
Ruby. Neil Oliver is as outraged by the system of Fascism we now live under. Is it OK to be outraged by Fascism? I can’t believe how slow on the uptake the people of Scotland are.
Willie says:
11 August, 2021 at 8:55 am
Someone made the moment that security services are attacking the Wings over Scotland site. I would think that improbable.
What the security services will do is monitor the site. Monitor the comments and who is making them
Reply
If they are monitoring anyone at the moment if will be Pixywine, Mist, J.O.E. etc
If I were them I would be very careful!
“Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.”
So BBC Shortbread aka BBC Scotland doesn’t do UK government bad stories, we know, and the BBC had Boris Johnson’s dad on a Newsnight programme, where Stanley Johnson was introduced as an “environmentalist” yeah right.
Anyway it shouldn’t need repeating but the BBC is an enemy of Scotland, a Westminster propaganda machine, on our tv screens everyday and night, never forget it.
The psychology of the “Independence movement” is very interesting. They claim to want Independence but are happy to be locked down and have their lives controlled by an unnecessary “health passport” all for an exaggerated flu. You’re all daft.
Wonder if any of the bitches at BBC Scotland have had their “vaccine”. I bet they haven’t.
Pixywine says:
11 August, 2021 at 10:08 am
Ruby. Neil Oliver is as outraged by the system of Fascism we now live under.
Reply
You obviously didn’t watch his latest tantrum.
The Governments are preparing ” quarantine centres” for the “unvaccinated”. That’s code for Concentration Camps. If anyone is daft enough to go along with that then the question of why did the German people fall for Hitler will have been answered
GCHQ fuck you lot and die you bastards.
Ruby. Link? Proof? Corroborated? Who gives a fuck about Neil Oliver you silly woman. Is he your pet hate? Stipid
Over twenty-five million Sikhs around the globe will vote in a “Global referendum” come the 31st of October to decide if Punjab should become a independent Sikh state although the vote will not be binding the Sikhs will ask the UN to allow a binding plebiscite to take place at a later date.
Unsurprisingly India and its leader Modi are against the vote as is the UK (no surprise there, they plundered India for at least £45 trillion when it was under their control) Canada, the USA and Australia also oppose the referendum.
It will be interesting to see how this global referendum is held and what the result will be if successful one possible name for the new state would be Khalistan.
link to m.youtube.com
For Hatstand.
The SNP is supposed to be the party of independence the party whose whole aim is to free us from this filthy union. Yet 14 YEARS after they came to power we are none the wiser on currency, the border,pensions, the armed forces, trade……..,no tangible plan. Why?
The National which claims to support independence never challenges Sturgeon on these issues, i wonder why.
The only dedicated plan that is being put into practice is by the ("Tractor" - Ed) Sturgeon and her SNP lackeys which is to destroy the case for independence once and for all. They make me sick.
@ Scott at 4.21
Pedant alert:
That’s no longer true for organ donation.
It used to be opt-in (consent assumed withheld).
It’s now opt-out (consent deemed given).
That change happened separately in Scotland, slightly earlier than in England, and has been in place since last year.
willie says:
11 August, 2021 at 9:50 am
The sanction of not voting for someone in five years time is precisely where we are at the moment Breeks.
But there is no sanction if the voting public don’t know what their Constitutional Rights are, so cannot see when they are being violated. Scottish democracy is deeply, deeply compromised. Just look at the hegemony of the Unionist media. What’s the point of democracy when the people don’t know what they’re voting for? Turkeys should know they’re voting for Christmas. They must, because it’s NOT democracy if they don’t.
A Constitutional Senate would know the peoples rights, because that would be it’s job, and that would be it’s purpose, and the Senate would police the actions of incompetent, constitutionally illiterate politicians who were similarly unaware of Scotland’s Constitutional rights, and where necessary, it would draw it’s authority to impeach them from the existing Claim of Right.
You already have a UK Electoral Commission to monitor and regulate the instruments of democracy… granted it’s not very good at it. But Scotland could and should have this “Electoral Commission” equivalent, not for safeguarding democracy, for the defence and protection of Scotland’s Sovereign rights and Constitution. It doesn’t matter what you call it, I just thought Senate was a good fit.
@Al-Stuart
Noticed your concern regarding ‘The Rev’ and the risk to the btl comments of someone posting illegal material etc. I think your concern level may be just a wee bit misplaced, and i don’t mean that in any nasty dig at you.
Hopefully this will help put your mind a little bit more at ease. But Stuart has already issued a very stern & clear warning to *anyone* attempting to post such information on this blog. He made it *very* clear anyone attempting it would have their comment removed, banned from this site & all their details held over to the police.
And don’t forget, Stuart doesn’t have to be monitoring this site 24/7. He has plenty of accomplices, thousands of pairs of eyes that are only too happy to inform him should they see any such comments. My love for this blog ensures i’m one of them and i’m pretty sure you too would take a similar position should the need arise.
No need to worry, we have his back.
@ Breeks 11.51 am
I don’t see the concept of a Constitutional Senate (or whatever you call it) as feasible. It seems to be a bit of an extra parliamentary route to sorting out issues and problems that can and should be resolved using existing institutions and frameworks. The latter may have issues and be imperfect but in the short to medium term how do you see a consensus being reached on your proposed Senate? Who decides who is in it?
What will it’s powers actually be?
Who will advise it?
Where’s the money coming from to establish & run it?
How will the outside world view it?
How would Westminster react to it?
Would the existing Scottish parties cooperate with such a scheme?
If not, how do you convince the majority of the population to support it?
Sorry, but it all sounds like pie in the sky stuff to me. There is no deus ex machina that will deliver independence to us. If the majority want independence the only feasible route in the short to medium terms are another indyref or plebiscitary elections. The latter looks much the most likely to happen in any reasonable timescale and even that will be hard unless the SNP is somehow reclaimed by its membership from the gradualists and Woko Haram TRA entryists driving it up an electoral and constitutional cul-de-sac at present.
All these rather grandiose alternative plans for Constitutional Senates, conventions and quasi or outright UDI will consign independence to the further future, probably after many of us middle aged and older folk have pegged it.
The Yes movement, as distinct from the pro indy parties, needs to rally round the principle that we demand another indyref. If that is refused/frustrated, then pressure should be exerted by the movement to have Scots Westminster MPs refuse to take their seats and abstain, and declare every subsequent election either to Holyrood or Westminster as a de facto and de jure plebiscite. Irrespective of our party political affiliation or ideological stance, that basic platform should become the default: an ultimatum to British nationalists to honour the 2014 precedent or face the threat of perpetual plebiscitary elections.
@Andy Ellis – the Holyrood Committees were supposed to provide the independent scrutiny, meaning all of this stuff wasn’t required or wanted. The problem is that they have now been packed-full of SNP MSP’s and so they are useless. Look at the Fabiani Inquiry Committee for example.
The structure of our society is being changed beyond our recognition.
A debate not held in our country by the people that the two sex genders thousands and thousands of years old , ruling kings and queens will be changed to a new ideology.
Businesses are closing under duress of covid rules. Leaving once thriving streets empty and socially dead.
Our children will be the first generation to have missed schooling since schooling became statutory.
Our Faithful old NHS is being restructured behind the scenes and cover of covid.
Our councils are becoming the branch offices of fascism. If your branch is in favour by your new master you will receive extra finances that do not have to go through the normal channels.
The privacy and protection of the family home conversations can now be invaded by legislation to kill free speech.
Our governments proposing locking people up and restricting them in society over the right to personally chose wether to have chemicals injected into their bodies
Green new deals forbid us to continue our plastic and chemical use and assault on the planet. But we must be forced by coercion to inject chemicals we do not want. Made in labs that has chemical by products.
New laws passed to use animals ( dogs) for experiments in uk.
The already use of power by the powerful will be used with the back up police force or army at protests of the governments behaviour. And will continue being abused by the powerful.
Human rights to be altered and down graded after Brexit.
Travelling by any motorised vehicle and for any mileage distance has been eroded and eventually will only be available to the powerful governments themselves, their friends, their family. Under exemptions (excuses) for the wealthy.
Food shortages due to Brexit, lack of lorry drivers,( ha ha) lack of planning according to MSM.
Many new people out of work .
If I go on with this partial list for to long, and no one will continue reading.
New controls and one direction monopolies on energy will leave people vulnerable in winter time.
The changes that are taken place in our country, are not taken us to a brighter happier place but are draconian measures that take the average citizen back to the seventeen and eighteen hundreds.
To a time when the rich were happy with the gap between rich and poor.
@ Capt. Yossarian 12.55 pm
The Holyrood committee structure – and certainly practice – has indeed been a huge disappointment. To a large extent I think that’s now a function of the SNPs numerical dominance, the fact they’ve been in power so long and the abject quality of the opposition. It has to be said the that the intellectual quality and “independence of mind” of many MSPs is pretty low.
I don’t think we can expect anything novel or aimed at moving the movement as a whole forward from within Holyrood itself as an “institutional fix” or advocating for adoption of some of the cunning schemes being proposed.
Pressure in the end has to come from both ordinary voters and pro-indy party activists and members about what the bottom line is, and that schemes and strategems are not an alternative to clearly articulated demands, time limits and what we promise will happen if our terms aren’t met. It is a shame in many ways we don’t have Scottish equivalents to bodies like Omnium and the Committees for the Defence of the Republic in Catalonia: perhaps one of the biggest downfalls of the movement since 2014 has been the dominant position of the SNP and atrophy of alternative organisations and forums.
@Andy Ellis – My only question is why, at the end of the Fabiani Inquiry, didn’t our MSP’s say: ‘this committee structure isn’t working; it’s doomed for failure every time’.
The Spectator pointed it out and went to Court on account of it, but no-one in Scotland is pursuing it at-all and I cannot understand that.
If Holyrood want to be taken seriously, then Holyrood need to take the job of government seriously. Do you think they want to do that, because I don’t.
Andy Ellis says:
11 August, 2021 at 12:50 pm
@ Breeks 11.51 am
… how do you see a consensus being reached on your proposed Senate?
What consensus is needed? Our Constitutional rights exist, our Constitution as a Nation exists. What “consensus” is required to denounce actions which are objectively unconstitutional? If someone breaks the law, there’s no rush form a consensus on how the law should be interpreted.
Who decides who is in it?
Who decides who’s on the Electoral Commission?
What will it’s powers actually be?
To affirm any action is Constitutionally sound, or denounce it as unconstitutional if it is unsound, and administer a protocol of impeachment if a Scottish Government habitually doesn’t respect the Sovereignty of the people.
Who will advise it?
It will advise, not be advised. The people are Constitutionally sovereign. Sovereignty is non-negotiable.
Where’s the money coming from to establish & run it?
Why would it need any kind of a budget above the level of pin money? Senators might even be voluntary positions.
How will the outside world view it?
What business is it of theirs? It is there to administer a covenant between the Scottish people and their Constitution.
How would Westminster react to it?
What business is it of theirs? It is there to administer a covenant between the Scottish people and their Constitution. To all intents and purposes, Westminster would be part of the “outside world”.
Would the existing Scottish parties cooperate with such a scheme?
They would be wholly independent of it. If they were acting Constitutionally, their actions would be approved of. If their actions were unconstitutional, they’d be denounced as unconstitutional. Non-cooperation with the law routinely invites enforcement as a consequence, not dialogue.
If not, how do you convince the majority of the population to support it?
It’s not democracy. It’s a dispassionate and objective defence of Scotland’s Constitutional Rights and Integrity. It would police misconduct and unconstitutional malpractice with or without popular support just like any other implementation of the Law.
As for being pie in the sky, people would have, and indeed did, say the same about ALBA.
Andy Ellis.
Are you here to find ways to begin the seeds of a alternative method to gain Scottish independence, knowing that the Scottish Parliament and snp are doing sweet fa.
because so far from all yours posts in the past as soon as anyone suggests anything different you apply the brakes to that thought before it can grow or be ironed out by the Yes movement.
Why the continuous opposition?
We notice that you seldom come up with you’re own ideas or inventive suggestions,
But quote mainstream thoughts and mantras,
@ Capt 1.31 pm
I don’t think it’s being addressed because Holyrood is currently the SNPs creature. The dominance of one large pro indy party which was *supposed* to be a broad church encapsulating a plethora of views united (or at least willing to co exist for) the common good and same ultimate destination.
None of this will change with the current system. If we had several pro indy parties as in Catalonia, or at least more than just one behemoth and one pygmy party in the SNP and Scottish Green Party l, things might be different. We’ve seen in recent months that the SNP groups in Holyrood and Westminster are overwhelmingly either Sturgeon’s creatures or willing collaborators. The few with any integrity have either already left / been ejected, or are effectual sidelined and isolated within the party like Joanna Cherry and Angus MacNeil. With luck we’ll see more (re)discovering their courage and either jumping ship or providing an effective counter to Sturgeon’s cultists in the party.
Holyrood won’t come into its own until after independence: at present it’s still a devolutionary assembly despite true pretentions. It can never be anything else until the Scots people make it otherwise.
Captain Yossarian says:
Ask Roddy Dunlop what he thinks of it all? He’s already said that James Wolffe is the most honest man he has ever come across. So, even Roddy Dunlop, the poster-boy of superior Scots everywhere, is a spoof, isn’t he?
When one considers the behaviour of public servants on both sides of the border over the past years, I suspect that Mr Dunlop is perfectly correct in his assessment of honesty. AND all these servants clearly agree that ‘honesty is NOT the best policy’. Indeed, as far as Governments and Courts are concerned, honesty has absolutely nothing to do with policy.
@James 1.42 pm
I’m here to point out the flaws as I see them in magical thinking. The alternative routes being proposed are codswollop. We have existing routes to indy, we just haven’t used and exhausted them.
I’m pointing out the drawbacks to the alternatives as I see them. Folk are free to disagree or to convince me that their posited alternative is a better or quicker or more sure fire way to deliver indy than what I proposed above. So far they’ve all signally failed to do so.
I quite accept that we are sovereign, that we don’t need permission, and that the only thing holding us back is our own lack of political courage and commitment. There’s no point blaming the MSM, or the security services, or the SNP, or the inability of people to accept that we’re special because of the Claims of Right / Declaration of Arbroath / Treaties of Union.
None of it matters in the grand scheme of things to the international community because they HATE alternative methods: ask the Catalans, Kosovars and others. What they see is a people without the political nowse and courage to put an “X” in a box, half of whose population suffers from Jockholm syndrome and is being disrespected daily by one of the most incompetent and shambolic Westminster governments in history. Most of them are laughing at us for our lack of political cojones. Slaves who revere their chains aren’t going to find themselves being top of the agenda for the international community to help and support.
@holymacmoses – honesty has nothing to do with policy only if you don’t get caught. When you do get caught, as the COPFS has recently, then we all end up getting stiffed for tens of millions. I suspect that Roddy Dunlop is just another legal sand-dancer, of which we have many here in Scotland.
Andy Ellis says:
11 August, 2021 at 2:06 pm
@James 1.42 pm
None of it matters in the grand scheme of things to the international community because they HATE alternative methods: ask the Catalans, Kosovars and others. What they see is a people without the political nowse and courage to put an “X” in a box, half of whose population suffers from Jockholm syndrome and is being disrespected daily by one of the most incompetent and shambolic Westminster governments in history. Most of them are laughing at us for our lack of political cojones. Slaves who revere their chains aren’t going to find themselves being top of the agenda for the international community to help and support.
A sad but true summary. I would also add that once Scots become financially ‘comfortable’ they see no point in taking any risks. Many Scots are greedy and will get as much as they can from their fellow countrymen – let alone from visitors. Brave Scots have usually left and made their mark abroad and stayed there for the most part. Lack of self-esteem and courage together with an almost pathological need for financial security are major factors. BUT the lack of self-esteem has made Sctots fearful of trusting fellow countrymen and , in fact, almost resenting those who find success at home or abroad. This makes it very difficult to find convincing leadership for a crack at Independence and is why Alex Salmond was and is such a gift to the country. Here was a man who could overcome parliamentary opposition with fine rhetoric backed by an astute mind and much wit. He is a free thinker and gets the best out of those who work with him. Sturgeon is a typical Scot. Fearful, mistrusting and driven by the notion of ‘security’. She lacks Mr Salmond’s visionary qualities and as we have known for thousands of years:
‘Without vision the people perish’ .
The Unionists must have thought that all their Christmases had come at once when they managed to undermine Sturgeon’s trust in her old mentor. The woman leading this country is now at sea alongside Johnson and the WM crew: all of them are both waving and drowning. It’s time that people stepped out of Queeqeg’s coffin and rolled up their sleeves to work towards creating two decent nations from the beached and bleached flotsam and jetsom of one Union which houses two corrupt and worthless governments.
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 2:26 pm
@holymacmoses – honesty has nothing to do with policy only if you don’t get caught. When you do get caught, as the COPFS has recently, then we all end up getting stiffed for tens of millions. I suspect that Roddy Dunlop is just another legal sand-dancer, of which we have many here in Scotland.
I don’t think it’s a matter of getting caught at all Y. It’s a matter of the dishonest folk deciding which other dishonest folk to expose. It’s all malversion
So we have ten gravy train Scottish ministers with fifteen junior gravy train ministers at their backs ) not including the couple of Green ministers about to be appointed) within the Scottish government, on a New Zealand style co-operation deal
Then we have the fifty or so media SPADS appointed to deflect any genuine grievances away from the poor performing Scottish government. Now add to that the two new Deputy chief Medical officers and a Chief Pharmaceutical officer.
It would appear that the gravy train at Holyrood, and beyond just keeps getting longer and longer.
Andy Ellis says:
11 August, 2021 at 2:06 pm
I quite accept that we are sovereign, that we don’t need permission, and that the only thing holding us back is our own lack of political courage and commitment. There’s no point blaming the MSM, or the security services, or the SNP, or the inability of people to accept that we’re special because of the Claims of Right / Declaration of Arbroath / Treaties of Union.
Nonsense.
Scotland’s people are Constitutionally sovereign, and voted emphatically that the UK should remain in Europe. We had the perfect existential crisis for the UK Union, one sovereign component of the UK voting for Brexit, the other sovereign component voting emphatically against it.
The Scottish people did their bit, they gave the SNP unprecedented unity, a Democratic and Constitutional mandate to bring down the Treaty of Union because Brexit for Scotland could ONLY be delivered by Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, and Sturgeon and her SNP flunkies totally squandered a sitting open goal for Scottish Independence, and yes they absolutely should be blamed for it, in fact the constitutionally illiterate, gutless wretches should be impeached, disgraced, and flung from Office for doing it, if not actually jailed.
@holymacmoses – In Scotland, it costs around £1m to bring a malicious prosecution case against the COPFS. I have no time for Charles Greene and Co, but they put up the £1m and won upwards of £30m back from the COPFS. Trouble is, it is not the bent lawyers of the COPFS that pay this £30m, it is the public that pay it.
In the meantime Roddy Dunlop says that Jame Wolffe is scrupulously honest and James Wolffe says that his law officers are scrupulously honest and Nicola Sturgeon days that we are lucky to have them all. We either have the best legal profession in the world, or the worst. It depends who you ask, doesn’t it?
It strikes me as being more likely that we, the public, would be better off without any of them. How else do you expose this if you don’t have access to £1m? I understand this is the way the law works in all banana republics these days.
I would like to think that both Sturgeon and Murrell have now been questioned by Police Scotland under ‘Caution’ in regard to the missing money.
crazycat says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:15 am
@ Scott at 4.21
Pedant alert:
In Scotland, consent is always assumed to be withheld.
That’s no longer true for organ donation.
—
Live organ donation is by consent.
When you’re deid they can do what they want with your body.
Fred says:
10 August, 2021 at 3:46 pm
“Israel and Iceland? Wait a minute weren’t those the guys that were boasting the other week about how they’d vaccinated nearly everyone?
This can’t be right, I mean, everybody knows vaccines work right?”
Infection rates are up, but v few are in hospital or dying. The vaccine doesn’t totally prevent people getting infected, but it does reduce the severity of the infection.
It’s sad watching this site become infested with cranks.
Also it was sad to see that @WeeHalfPint has been banned from twitter. I think it was something to do with her being gender critical. She was a big presence and it was obviously an important part of her life. But this is where we are.
Andy Ellis.
There you go again.
All that constitutional Scottish sovereignty stuff can be dismissed,
Why.?
This has a nice ring to it.
The sovereign people’s Scottish senate.
Or the other way around,
The Scottish people’s senate,
We don’t need political parties even, let the peopl run it.
To ensure thorough democracy, candidates put themselves forward from all walks of life, and them the public draw straws instead of voting. If you get the short straw you out.
And the ones elected don’t have cliches.
They are allowed to run for short periods of time only, not five years but perhaps two years,
This would ensure a regular turn over of power through the people.
Now are you going to poo poo that total democracy too.
What could be nicer than having the people in power.
No I think the title should remain .
The sovereign Scottish people’s senate.
Scotland already has a ‘Senate’, of sorts.
It’s called the Court of Session.
If you want to challenge the application of “a law”, you can.
It’s a simple process and does not always require crowdfunding to gain access.
eg Court fees are known in advance, and certain cohorts are exempt from them.
link to scotcourts.gov.uk
The Court of Session rules are set out for all to peruse.
link to scotcourts.gov.uk
There’s no need to have expensive legal representation. You can represent yourself, and can ask for limited use of technical legal jargon by ‘the other side’. You can have a lay representative.
If you do your research, there’s no impediment to justice.
PS All law in Scotland is civil law, ‘criminal justice’ is just a subset.
@Scott – In a Court of Session hearing, the judge will be someone like Lady Dorrian. The last one I can recall was regarding Alex Salmond and the last-minute redactions to his testimony by John Swinney/James Wolffe.
It was not free (that’s an understatement if ever there was one) and Lady Dorrian dismissed absolutely everything in her usual vainglorious style.
Law in Scotland is currently scratching slowly along the bottom of the manky old Scotia sewer pipe. We need root and branch reform and the return of honesty. No honesty….no law, I’m afraid.
“James Che. says:
11 August, 2021 at 4:55 pm
Or the other way around,
The Scottish people’s senate,
We don’t need political parties even, let the peopl run it.
To ensure thorough democracy, candidates put themselves forward from all walks of life, and them the public draw straws instead of voting. If you get the short straw you out.”
You want to ban political parties and there would be no voting – people would be selected by drawing straws?
And how is that democratic? I want to choose somebody who is standing on issues I support and who represents my interests – you’re telling me I have to surrender that for somebody selected at random? No chance!
The opposition to the Senate idea stinks just like the snp opposition to Martin Keatings acting as a sovereign Scot against the sect 30 pish . How dare anyone challenge the authority of our betters, how dare anyone consider themselves equal to our elected officials, elected officials who have no hands on working knowledge , officials who have moved from uni to govt, officials who have never lived independently, officials who have no experience of the items within their remit, but that’s okay we will just employ 500 spads to guide them in their official capacity, the only problem with that is the spads have no hands on working experience and so on and so on
The oldest trick in the book is to promote someone who is NO threat to your position, so you promote someone who is thicker than you, then the thicker one promotes someone thicker than them and so on and so on .
And that is why we have the politicians we have in Holyrood and WM
I agree with you Breeks but instead of calling it a senate I would call it The People’s Representatives, and selection would entail local election with expenses only being paid and just like ALL politicians there would be a stringent recall and removal set of laws drawn up
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 5:15 pm
@Scott – In a Court of Session hearing, the judge will be someone like Lady Dorrian. The last one I can recall was regarding Alex Salmond and the last-minute redactions to his testimony by John Swinney/James Wolffe.
It was not free (that’s an understatement if ever there was one) and Lady Dorrian dismissed absolutely everything in her usual vainglorious style.
Law in Scotland is currently scratching slowly along the bottom of the manky old Scotia sewer pipe. We need root and branch reform and the return of honesty. No honesty….no law, I’m afraid.
—
Yeah, none of your ‘added on drivel’ contradicts anything I said about the Court of Session.
We don’t need root and branch reform at all.
Every case is judged on its own merits and the process stays the same.
Claiming that cases involving “independence supporters” show a need for such, is just illogical tub-thumping.
With respect, most of your posts are. You constantly advocate for change ‘from something’, but you never actually flesh out the ‘something’ you want.
The “something needs to be done” brigade have the power to do something if they live in Scotland.
It’s that simple.
eg Brexit – was it an unlawful representation of the expressed wishes of the electorate in Scotland?
No, because it was lawful at UK level. There didn’t need to be a referendum to leave the EU, and given its advisory status there could be no legal challenge based on Scotland’s result.
If people are going to moan about Scots Law, they should at least have the decency to understand it.
Humans aren’t apples, so claiming corruption of an institution based on subjective reasoning is illogical and presented in bad faith; one bad apple will spoil the rest in a barrel, but one good banana will spoil a barrel of good apples.
If COPFS et al are so corrupt, why did this guy get sentenced to 15 years at the High Court today?
link to archive.is
Scot how did the court of sessions come into being, ?
And does it under subdivisions of the Scotland Act come under the crown?
Is the original acknowledgment of a separate Scots law under the treaty of the union been subsumed by Westminster parliament over ruling with legislation and statues. Such as the health laws and statues which are not mentioned in the treaty of the union as belonging to British Parliament in the future?
How far does law stand in Scotland as a separate entity today,?
And why do you think only one person may take action instead of a nation of sovereign people together.?
@Scott – sometimes I just don’t know where to start with you. Scottish Law is rotten. Charles Greene of all people proved that. It cost him £1m which means that you or I couldn’t do it. Nothing subjective about it; his was the most objective and humiliating example you could hope for.
“but one good banana will spoil a barrel of good apples”. You’ve got me with that one, Scott. You’ve got your wires crossed again haven’t you. Who’s the good banana?…… Roddy Dunlop?
James Che. says:
11 August, 2021 at 5:55 pm
Scot how did the court of sessions come into being, ?
And does it under subdivisions of the Scotland Act come under the crown?
—
The Crown of Scotland is not the same as the Crown of England. The monarch is the same, but the institutions over which the crowns preside are completely separate.
The PM has the power to do anything they want in England, as given by the Crown of England, t’was always thus.
But, English Law cannot over-rule a decision of the Court of Session (Scotland’s supreme court).
Even decisions taken at Prime Minister & “UK supreme court” level must be lawful in Scotland. The proroguing of Parliament case brought by Cherry et al, is a useful recent reminder.
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 6:03 pm
@Scott – sometimes I just don’t know where to start with you. Scottish Law is rotten. Charles Greene of all people proved that
—
All cases are treated on their own merits. Charles Green got justice.
It cost him £1m, but that was due to his use of QC etc.
It need only have cost him the court fees as set out.
I could have argued his case, in theory.
As for the bananas, they give off a gas that hastens the ‘ripening’ of other fruits.
Scots Law isn’t rotten, your understanding of it is.
@Scott – I’ve been in the midst of Scottish Law for the past seven-years. Believe me, it is moribund and several of them should be in jail.
There is nothing subjective about it. It is objective and examples of it surround every one of us. Salmond, Murray and Hirst are the examples I know of, but there are others too.
Were any of these beneficiaries of the free Scottish Justice you espouse? I don’t think they were, were they? So, what makes you think any of us will receive free justice, or any kind of justice, in Scotland?
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 6:31 pm
@Scott – I’ve been in the midst of Scottish Law for the past seven-years. Believe me, it is moribund and several of them should be in jail.
There is nothing subjective about it. It is objective and examples of it surround every one of us. Salmond, Murray and Hirst are the examples I know of, but there are others too.
Were any of these beneficiaries of the free Scottish Justice you espouse?
I don’t think they were, were they? So, what makes you think any of us will receive free justice, or any kind of justice, in Scotland?
—
You’ve contradicted your own position.
Alex Salmond was acquitted.
Mark Hirst was acquitted.
Craig Murray was convicted.
[Charles Green was acquitted and received compensation via Court of Session.]
Stop the tub-thumping.
@Scott
“Scots Law isn’t rotten”
Are you suddenly finding your shoelace to be undone, just when that brown envelope gets slid across the table?
Family member of mine wasn’t so lucky. He witnessed the brown envelope, and was told “that’s how the system works”. Quit his Uni course thereafter, despite being one of the most promising students in his year, thoroughly scunnered.
Not rotten, eh? Aye right! Wouldn’t trust anyone involved in Scots Law to butter my toast. Just look at Sturgeon. A fine product of the legal establishment, if ever there was.
@Scott – and were ANY of them the beneficiaries of free Scottish Justice? I think you will find that all of them incurred very large legal costs which were made as high as possible by the actions of our Holyrood Administration. Gordon Dangerfield said some time ago that the law in Scotland was now only the legal organ of the SNP party and that’s about the size of it.
Ruby. “What else could they be trying to achieve”? We are trying to waken you up you idiot.
robertknight says:
11 August, 2021 at 6:51 pm
@Scott
“Scots Law isn’t rotten”
Are you suddenly finding your shoelace to be undone, just when that brown envelope gets slid across the table?
Family member of mine wasn’t so lucky. He witnessed the brown envelope, and was told “that’s how the system works”. Quit his Uni course thereafter, despite being one of the most promising students in his year, thoroughly scunnered.
—
Yeah, strawmen anecdotes prove that Scots Law is useless and Scotland is shite.
The people of Scotland are all involved in Scots Law, so enjoy your dry toast (assuming you made that yourself, obvs).
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 6:54 pm
@Scott – and were ANY of them the beneficiaries of free Scottish Justice? I think you will find that all of them incurred very large legal costs which were made as high as possible by the actions of our Holyrood Administration.
—
FFS, as I’ve pointed out, legal fees are a matter between the 2 parties involved.
There is no requirement to have formal legal representation.
Each case is based on its own merit.
Stop thumping your tub.
Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 5:03 pm
Scotland already has a ‘Senate’, of sorts.
It’s called the Court of Session.
If you want to challenge the application of “a law”, you can.
I’m not a lawyer, but as a layman, it strikes me there is a difference between domestic Law focussed upon the internal mechanisms of a Country where the judgements and rulings can be unilateral, and International Law, where the judgements and rulings have ramifications on other Countries.
I’m not sure how enthusiastic, or indeed conflicted, the Court of Session would be about steering the good ship Scotland on the high seas of International Law. It strikes me, it has already done so, with Megrahi , and it was doing so when Joanna Cherry used Scots Law to challenge the right to revoke Article 50 and Brexit, and again, to compel the UK PM to respect a Scottish judgement from the Court of Session, even though he is not Scottish. Isn’t that technically international Law?
It also has a potential conflict of interest given the independence of Scots Law was explicitly protected by Treaty, and thus how could the Court of Session deliver an adjudication against Scotland’s sovereign Constitution when that would compromise the very existence of Scots Law? How can the Court of Session be arbiter on it’s own existence when the answer is patently self evident?
I would like to see the Scottish Senate trying to repeat what the Scottish UN Commission did in the ‘70-‘80s and raise the profile and knowledge level about Scotland’s constitutional predicament with the UN and foreign governments especially in Europe, and develop a framework that would lead to a formal “finishing line” and International Recognition for Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty.
If I’m wrong, and this won’t work, then what do we do differently so it does work?
Breeks says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:08 pm
Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 5:03 pm
Scotland already has a ‘Senate’, of sorts.
It’s called the Court of Session.
If you want to challenge the application of “a law”, you can.
I’m not a lawyer, but as a layman, it strikes me there is a difference between domestic Law focussed upon the internal mechanisms of a Country where the judgements and rulings can be unilateral, and International Law, where the judgements and rulings have ramifications on other Countries.
I’m not sure how enthusiastic, or indeed conflicted, the Court of Session would be about steering the good ship Scotland on the high seas of International Law. It strikes me, it has already done so, with Megrahi , and it was doing so when Joanna Cherry used Scots Law to challenge the right to revoke Article 50 and Brexit, and again, to compel the UK PM to respect a Scottish judgement from the Court of Session, even though he is not Scottish. Isn’t that technically international Law?
—
Megrahi was prosecuted under Scots Law.
If English Law permits something, it has to be lawful in Scotland to be applied at UK level.
International Law is, again, judged on a case by case basis. The term itself is a misnomer. It is basically Domestic Law v Domestic Law.
I got vaccinated against the Flu and Covid 19 alias the English Tory and Quisling Death Plague because I dont want to murder any Doctors, Nurses or Care Workers. Some folk need to take a good look in the mirror but I am guessing they chucked those out back in 2014 when they voted Naw when voting Yes was also the right thing to do.
Another tweak in the perspective…
If Scotland simply asserted sovereignty, and defied challengers to prove otherwise, the UK government would have to use the Court of Session to dispute the assertion, and thus, wouldn’t that be tangible acknowledgment that Westminster is NOT sovereign over Scots Law, and thus, QED, Scotland is.
Take the UK Supreme Court to the limit of it’s jurisdiction, (again), and keep going wherever Scots Law takes us, because that is the realm of Scottish Sovereignty.
Breeks says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:25 pm
Another tweak in the perspective…
If Scotland simply asserted sovereignty, and defied challengers to prove otherwise, the UK government would have to use the Court of Session to dispute the assertion, and thus, wouldn’t that be tangible acknowledgment that Westminster is NOT sovereign over Scots Law, and thus, QED, Scotland is.
—
Absolutely.
Westminster can change Scots Law, but it cannot change it such that High Court of England becomes the de-facto supreme court.
@ James Che & others
More “castles in Spain” as our French friends say. There *might* be some legs in this idea if we were at some huge crisis, or on the brink of revolution, but the sad truth is we just aren’t, nor are we likely to be. Proposals for a Senate or a Constitutional Convention or People’s Assembly all sound great in theory, and are definitely an option in extremis, but much like UDI they’re a weapon of last resort.
“We” – and I mean that in the broad sense of pro-independence people of whatever stripe – haven’t even managed to convince a majority of Scots to support independence for any sustained length of time, still less convince them or the international community that it is legitimate to press the nuclear button.
Scotland doesn’t have a constitution. Anyone saying it does is constitutionally illiterate. Scotland doesn’t really have a definitive constitutional status. It is pretty widely accepted that Scotland has the right to self determination, even if the route to exercising it is still debated and contested by some anti-independence folks. The heteregenous nature of the UK constitution has led some to call it a “union state”, i.e. it is neither a unitary state nor a federal state. Scotland can be seen as a separate nation within the UK by dint of its distinct legal system, cultural heritage, civic institutions and acknowledged right to self determination, but the Scotland Act and Holyrood parliament didn’t deliver a framework that can readily deliver independence, because it will always be seen as subservient to Westminster unless and until the majority of the Scots people decide to change the situation.
It seems to me what you and others are suggesting is some extra-parliamentary route of doubtful democratic legitimacy because you’re frustrated at the current lack of progress. It all sounds a bit “aux armes citoyens, aux barricades!” but all these plans and schemes you’re advancing are just so much hot air. You’re putting the cart before the horse. Until and unless the people are at a point where things are so bad they’re ready – indeed straining at the leash – to abandon the current route, none of this is remotely realistic.
We give them an ultimatum to honour the 2014 precedent. If they refuse we withdraw from Westminster and declare all future elections plebiscitary. If they try and frustrate that, we then have a license to be more radical, civil disobedience and non-cooperation with the British nationalist state and take our case to the international community.
Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:17 pm
If English Law permits something, it has to be lawful in Scotland to be applied at UK level.
But isn’t that the point? In strictly constitutional terms, why is there no “UK” Law? Answer… because there cannot be.
So how can there be a “UK” that is constitutionally sound and properly resolves the irreconcilable conundrum of sovereignty? Answer surely… there cannot be.
Andy Ellis says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:31 pm
@ James Che & others
Scotland doesn’t have a constitution. Anyone saying it does is constitutionally illiterate. Scotland doesn’t really have a definitive constitutional status.
—
FFS, where to start with this gibberish.
Scots Law as written and applied IS the constitution.
Constitutional status = Currently in a political union via treaty.
Andy Ellis = another sanctimonious tub-thumper.
Don’t forget that Joanna Cherry proved last year that the court of Session does not come under any legal jurisdiction from South of the border.
The English Courts did not judge that Boris Johnson had acted illegally by proroguing Parliament but the Court of Session not only judged that he had acted illegally, they ordered the WM parliament to reconvene and went so far as to judge that the PM had misled HM, The Queen.
The Supreme Court was an attempt by Blair to establish a UK Court but the Treaty of Union precludes such a thing as Scots Law must continue to exist in Scotland – hence MS. Cherry’s use of the Court of Session to decide on some recent ‘chestnuts’ that have been tossed into our daily life by the current WM charlatans.
@robertknight – Scottish Law: as bent as a nine-bob note. I’m dealing with a Professional Engineering Institution just now, alongside the Law Society of Scotland. The difference in honesty is just staggering.
Breeks.
Scott.
Good points made.
But as I am neither a lawyer and a simple layman,
I need a bit of clarification on the last point made,
If England can change Scots law as was protected under the agreement of the treaty of the union as being separate from England’s.
England would by you’re very statement already be supreme de-facto by making that changes.
Breeks good to see you have the gist of where I am going with this.
Breeks says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:33 pm
But isn’t that the point? In strictly constitutional terms, why is there no “UK” Law? Answer… because there cannot be.
So how can there be a “UK” that is constitutionally sound and properly resolves the irreconcilable conundrum of sovereignty? Answer surely… there cannot be.
—
Correct, there is no UK Law.
UK is a union underpinned by treaties.
Scotland can withdraw from this union at any time.
How that withdrawal is ever effected is not solely in the gift of elected politicians(or unelected Lords).
Pixywine says:
11 August, 2021 at 6:57 pm
Ruby. “What else could they be trying to achieve”? We are trying to waken you up you idiot.
Reply
I missed that! I thought you were trying to bore me to sleep!
I was sure you were part of:
link to boreyoutosleep.com
James Che. says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:49 pm
Breeks.
Scott.
Good points made.
But as I am neither a lawyer and a simple layman,
I need a bit of clarification on the last point made,
If England can change Scots law as was protected under the agreement of the treaty of the union as being separate from England’s.
England would by you’re very statement already be supreme de-facto by making that changes.
—
An Act of WM Parliament cannot change Scots Law such that it is subservient to English Law.
The treaties signed are clear in this matter.
Scots Law is guaranteed to exist in perpetuity.
“Scots Law is guaranteed to exist in perpetuity”. Athlete’s foot exists in perpetuity too Scott and it’s just as feckin unpleasant.
Captain Yossarian says:
11 August, 2021 at 8:20 pm
“Scots Law is guaranteed to exist in perpetuity”. Athlete’s foot exists in perpetuity too Scott and it’s just as feckin unpleasant.
—
False equivalence may be your specialised subject on Mastermind, but the General Knowledge round would cooper your chances of winning.
He’s often criticised for organising King George the IV’s jaunt to Scotland, but Sir Walter Scott author of works such as Guy Mannering, The Lady of the Lake, Ivanhoe, and his first novel Waverley, saved Scots law and Scottish currency from being absorbed into the union.
Scott also rediscovered Scotland’s honours, which are much older than Englands. not bad bad for a man with Polio in his leg. Scott also has the largest stone monument dedicated to a poet/author in Edinburgh which looks like a giant stone space rocket, the creator this monument is said to have fallen in and drowned in the local canal on his way to see his creation officially opened.
Scott’s column also has pride of place in Glasgow’s George Sq.
link to m.youtube.com
Republicofscotland says:
11 August, 2021 at 8:38 pm
1. He’s often criticised for organising King George the IV’s jaunt to Scotland, but Sir Walter Scot…saved Scots law and Scottish currency from being absorbed into the union.
2. Scott also rediscovered Scotland’s honours, which are much older than Englands. not bad bad for a man with Polio in his leg
—
1. Did he, aye?
2. He did help to rediscover the Crown Jewels, by opening a box they were rumoured to be lying in all along.
Scott says ”
When you’re deid they can do what they want with your body.”
Wrong. If you don’t want your organs plundered once you are dead, you contact them to have it certified that you do not consent to your organs being donated. I have done that and have a printed agreement that they cannot remove my organs on my death. I refuse to have my deid body plundered for students to pick over, or for people who I would despise in life to benefit from my death. Because you dont get to pick and choose who fights over your remains once you are gone. Meanwhile I am happy to donate while living, any part of me that can be of use, was a blood donor for many years. Till that became a racket with blood constituents being sent to other countries. And the more so now that our NHS is in danger of privatisation and americanisation.
@Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:59 pm
“Scotland can withdraw from this union at any time.”
Being serious, if that is the case, then why did Salmond not do that at the height of his power?
Scott,
thanks for your help.
Now my thoughts are turning to other issues within the treaty of the union and asking questions to legalities in other areas, such as in Scotland under the treaty of the union auspices such as private rights in Scotland being by law different from England’s, and wonder how intrusive the Scotland hate crime bill contradicts the treaty of union.
I Apologise for having strayed a bit, but I find this very fascinating
However Back to original subject, and I arrive at a point of wondering whom oversee’s the court of session, to stop the misuse of Scots law.
Kind of where I started on how they were formed and what checks and balances are in place for the people.
Appreciate the serious chat for once and learning along the way.
Beaker says:
11 August, 2021 at 9:05 pm
@Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:59 pm
“Scotland can withdraw from this union at any time.”
Being serious, if that is the case, then why did Salmond not do that at the height of his power?
—
The fact has been established (at WM) that Scotland can opt out of the union. (See 2014)
UDI can happen lawfully, but the people might rebel on the streets of Scotland and nobody would want that. [Public disorder couldn’t change the status back, btw]
As alluded to by Alex Salmond, negotiating withdrawal terms is possible without another referendum.
Scotland’s independence wouldn’t affect the power of the monarch, but it would end any influence directly from WM.
ames Che. says:
11 August, 2021 at 9:11 pm
Scott,
thanks for your help.
However Back to original subject, and I arrive at a point of wondering whom oversee’s the court of session, to stop the misuse of Scots law.
Kind of where I started on how they were formed and what checks and balances are in place for the people.
Appreciate the serious chat for once and learning along the way.
—
The Court of Session has been Scotland’s supreme court for civil cases since 1532.
See here: link to scotcourts.gov.uk
Laws, as written and applied, oversee all courts to put it simply. Appeals against judgements from CoS follow the same procedures as applied to reach them.
[High Court of the Justiciary is the supreme court for criminal cases, but right of appeal to the Court of Session remains possible]
Sorry to mention the pandemic, but as someone who has friends and relatives in France, the direction of travel there and in some other countries is very worrying, and I penned the following with that in mind.
Refusing the Covid-19 vaccine is not some kind of selfish act. Since the vaccine does not prevent either contracting or transmitting the virus, it can only reduce the severity of infection in the individual, it is a personal choice.
Unfortunately, rules are being enforced to deny the freedom of choice. When draconian restrictions are placed on those who would prefer to decline the vaccine, creating a class of Untermenschen unable to participate fully in society, then it is little short of forced coercion. It goes without saying in a civilised society that no-one should be vaccinated against his or her will, and that unvaccinated people should not be discriminated against, but for many governments these simple truisms are falling on deaf ears.
It is very hard to find balanced and objective information relating to the pandemic, but the following links may be of interest to those who are able to think beyond the prevailing government narrative:
link to totalhealth.co.uk
link to totalhealth.co.uk
link to totalhealth.co.uk
As regards the discussion around renewable energy, it is notable that nearly all of Scotland’s energy is now generated from renewable sources. We therefore have no need to extract the remaining oil from our waters. It is England that is dependent on Scotland’s oil for profit and gain, as has always been the case when it comes to England and Scotland’s resources. We should be using every means possible to strive for independence and with the climate crisis and COP26 coming up, England’s need for Scotland’s oil is one of the most powerful levers we have to push for independence and gain the international support of those nations who are taking the lead in tackling the climate crisis. If only we didn’t have a leader lacking in courage, integrity and honesty…
Breeks says:
“The Scottish people did their bit, they gave the SNP unprecedented unity, a Democratic and Constitutional mandate to bring down the Treaty of Union because Brexit for Scotland could ONLY be delivered by Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation.”
Very well said, Breeks. It is not the Scottish people who let their country down, and who voted for the SNP in good faith, but those we elected to represent us who have failed us and their country so badly and continue to do so at every turn.
Republicofscotland says:
“The Scottish government granted licences to shoot 115 beavers in Scotland last year…This comes on top of the culls of ravens…We also have the mass slaughter of hares in the Highlands.”
As a vegetarian, the culling of animals always saddens me. I agree entirely with your comment and sentiments Republic of Scotland. The Scottish Government are “managing” Scotland’s flora and fauna purely for the benefit of rich landowners and their hunting estates.
@ Saffron Robe
Regarding Covid vaccine in France, you have made EXACTLY the same point that I made here a couple of nights ago. Unfortunately, a few people didn’t really get it the point, that Covid has brought fascism in through the back door.
‘Very well said, Breeks. It is not the Scottish people who let their country down, and who voted for the SNP in good faith, but those we elected to represent us who have failed us and their country so badly and continue to do so at every turn.’
The Scottish people had every piece of evidence anyone would need, including the stated intentions of the party itself, to know that voting for SNP was not a vote for Scottish independence.
The Scottish public are infantile, slow, willfully ignorant and are going to continue paying the price for it
Mist001 says:
11 August, 2021 at 10:01 pm
…Covid has brought fascism in through the back door
—
You don’t live in Scotland.
You clearly don’t have the same rights as those of us who do or are unwilling to challenge decisions made in France.
If I, as an unvaccinated person, am discriminated against then I will challenge that decision. And here’s the rub…I cannot be discriminated against in any other part of the UK (while Scotland remains in the union)
Repeating that “It’s here so will come to Scotland regardless” is wishful thinking on your part, and/or highlights your ignorance of Scots Law.
You carry on worrying about Marseille, because your Edinburgh-based business won’t be inoculated against its will.
link to theduran.locals.com
This is about State/corporate power.
Governments have brought Fascism in through the front door using the computer hypothesis known as covid 19 as a Trojan horse.
Mist00.
Saffron robe,
breeks
This has alway my worry with regards to where covid rules have been leading,
For me it has always been with the rights of the person to remain sovereign over their body, their human rights and the rights of sovereignty before a government claims of sovereignty.
I may be ill and some others not, others may take the vaccine I may not.
Without doubt their has been some extreme long ongoing conversations I have had to have due to covid and sovereignty rights on this site.
However no matter the personal choice made by anyone Over the vaccine and the virus, the larger picture is striving to retain freedom of speech, movement, and body, because when the state owns you, you will have nothing,
I was really interested with the grown up conversation held with Scott, and breeks tonight.
Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 10:15 pm
You clearly don’t have the same rights as those of us who do or are unwilling to challenge decisions made in France.
Reply
It could be tricky for someone who isn’t French to challenge decisions.
If he takes to the streets wearing his ‘gilet jaune’ he might find his ‘carte de sejour’ is ‘annulée’.
Ruby says:
11 August, 2021 at 10:51 pm
It could be tricky for someone who isn’t French to challenge decisions.
If he takes to the streets wearing his ‘gilet jaune’ he might find his ‘carte de sejour’ is ‘annulée’.
—
Que sera, sera. C’est la guerre.
@ Scott
‘If I, as an unvaccinated person, am discriminated against then I will challenge that decision.’
See dopey, you still don’t get it. Stick your ‘Scots Law’ up yer erse and take a look at the real world.
Vaccination is a choice, so how the fuck are you going to prove discrimination?
You’re a numpty.
Mist001 says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:04 pm
@ Scott
See dopey, you still don’t get it. Stick your ‘Scots Law’ up yer erse and take a look at the real world.
Vaccination is a choice, so how the fuck are you going to prove discrimination?
—
N’importe quoi!!
Denial of service based on a voluntary vaccination is, by definition, discrimination.
Vas te faire foutre.
A week or so ago John Maine asked me the rhetorical question ‘What’s the prognosis?’
I’ll actually answer but I will be as brief as I can:
The Covid narrative isnt going away. There is a lull now while the waters are being tested. Once there are large numbers of sick people come autumn/winter the ratchet will move another notch. We have been through what that means many times already.
Security/policing:
The authorities are going to recruit security and police primarily from immigrants. Along with the woke ‘white people bad’ narrative they will be even more open to enacting harsh measures our own native people might find difficult on everything from covid to hate speech. Between a massive rise in life prospects, woke propaganda and a lack of understanding our values they will become the enforcers that our masters struggle to enlist in great enough numbers just now. Even better – they can label anyone speaking out about it as racism. The critical theory ‘woke’ ideology has you Mr and Mrs white Scot at the bottom of the victim list which means you are in for a bit of ‘removal of privilege’ (stripping of rights).
Just pay attention to how things play out and remember what happened with the transgender lobby and women’s rights. That wasn’t an anomaly. That was a foreshadowing of what’s to come.
Recession and shortages:
The people pushing mass immigration are the same powers behind covid, who happen to be the big financial powers – the banks and corporate world. With this power they will make sure that the effects of covid supply shortages and other issues actually make scarcity a real issue. We will find necessary food stuffs becoming rationed and many people will have to look to the government for help. That means you will want to get yourself a nice little covid pass to enjoy the fruits of government charity and that means getting vaccinated and staying on top of boosters.
Conclusion of the fiat currency system:
We will reach a point where currencies begin to lose more and more value (already happening) in order to set up a new financial system that is entirely electronic. I suspect that when things get really bad people will be offered a choice to transfer their savings to a new digital currency seamlessly – but only when they are in line with government health and social guidance. You know what that means.
Destruction of national institutions:
Through these crises, and our willingness to give up our country to the woke church, we will be given false prophets to lead us further down the path of ruin. Our economy will be even more deeply in the hands of a hyper wealthy few, our institutions will have been turned inside out and will even be despised by our people. The idea of us being Scots (or any other distinct European nationality) will be stamped on and our national pride and dignity stamped out.
The decades to come:
As was written/planned in the early 20th century (not by fascists, im afraid to say) our world is to be turned upside down, all that was good is to be seen as bad, all that is true is to be seen as false. There will be no ancestral homelands. Nothing that we hold as natural and normal now will be allowed to persist. You will be a unit of work, consumption and currency transfer (you already are legally, but you will be physically also). Your rights will be good behavior privileges
As for Europeans? You are to vanish by a variety of measures and you will be made painfully aware of it once you no longer have the demographic balance in your homelands.
What will you do?
You will probably keep looking for your TV to give you answers. Or waiting for that 1 honest politician to come and make things right. What you will definitely do is deliberately ignore the actual facts (not the propaganda you have been pickled with) of the past that show quite clearly what our future is to be.
Orwell wasn’t just randomly making predictions. He wasn’t a seer. Everything in his warning comes from the written plans and idea’s of the most evil diabolical bastards you have ever heard of – and don’t want to hear about. But its all there.
The simple truth is the people who are doing this are the ones who gave you your current worldview – He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.
This covid situation is a litmus test. If too many people bow to the lies then its over and what comes next is one world wide mass tragedy after another.
That is why I do not see any point in taking one step in that direction.
So there you are. Watch what happens.
J.o.e says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:13 pm
A week or so ago John Maine asked me the rhetorical question ‘What’s the prognosis?’
I’ll actually answer but I will be as brief as I can:
—
You could just have written, “I am a racist and the darkies are coming for you”
That would have been brief and to the point.
@Scott
There nothing wrong with trans people.
Its what the establishment are doing with their cause thats the problem.
Get it?
link to m.youtube.com
Ruby.
Pixywine says:
11 August, 2021 at 10:28 pm
Governments have brought Fascism in through the front door using the computer hypothesis known as covid 19 as a Trojan horse.
Reply
I don’t get that!
Now if you had said the HCB, Brexit, being keen to leave the ECHR & the denial of an independence referendum were signs that both governments were big fans of fascism I would have seen your point.
J.o.e says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:31 pm
@Scott
There nothing wrong with trans people.
Reply
Except for the fact that they were born in the wrong body.
Pixywine says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:32 pm
link to m.youtube.com
Ruby.
Reply
Pixywine seems to have a problem communicating.
He needs the help of YouTube videos.
I’m trying to imagine ‘Pixywine’on a date trying to seduce with ‘YouTube’ videos.
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
Ruby says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:40 pm
J.o.e says:
11 August, 2021 at 11:31 pm
@Scott
There nothing wrong with trans people.
Reply
Except for the fact that they were born in the wrong body.
just because you don’t like your body or you don’t feel comfortable with it, doesn’t make it the wrong one.
My mother was chronic depressive and kept wanting to change the furniture in the sitting room where she spent her days. No one could persuade her that there were other places to sit in the house and other views to take of the room.
Fair do’s, but i don’t think the redactor in chief, Sturgeons hitman JW was top dog during the maliciously undertaken ‘Rangers’ farce.
He was probably taking notes for future reference though.
🙂
link to bitchute.com
Beware of ramped up climate propaganda in the news media. They’re selling a bankers agenda.
I came to a lot of the conclusions this woman did. I wanted the youtube version but it was removed. Apologies
link to bitchute.com
Ruby. Congratulations. You win the Bites like a Shark championship. Playing for Scotland you must feel intensely proud. Tell your fans how you feel right now…
OMG J.O.E is at it now with the YouTube videos.
I don’t often link videos. If you want a very clear picture of what I am talking about then Mrs Fitts explains much of it in more detail.
I very strongly advise people listen
Mist001 says:
“Regarding Covid vaccine in France, you have made EXACTLY the same point that I made here a couple of nights ago. Unfortunately, a few people didn’t really get the point, that Covid has brought fascism in through the back door.”
Apologies Mist001 for not giving you a namecheck which I should have done. I was aware of your comments and that the same point had already been well-made by yourself.
Saffron Robe says:
12 August, 2021 at 12:23 am
“…Covid has brought fascism in through the back door.”
Apologies Mist001 for not giving you a namecheck I was aware that the same point had already been well-made by yourself.
—
Fascism hasn’t been brought in through any door in Scotland.
This is self-evident.
Conjecture about the future is just that.
[It’s very rare for Mr Stimson’s points to be well-made.]
.
Every now and then you find a diamond in the rough at BTL.
Today I’d like to say THANKS to Stoker for one of the BEST BTL COMMENTS on this thread.
Many of us have been bruised by the collapse in trust towards the COPFS and Police Scotland as the real life Orwellian novel comes true in the Banana Republic of Scotland. Ironically the instruction manual called “1984” could have been written anywhere in the world. But was penned at Barnhill, on the island of Jura in Scotland and is now being taken out for a test drive by Nicola Borgen Sturgeon.
From first hand experience and as a signatory of the Official Secrets Act, I am hidebound, but my observations inform the distrust of the current corrupted Scottish Executive and Nicola Sturgeon’s public admission that Wings has to be closed down. All of this and what happened to Alex Salmond and Craig Murray fills me with deep concern.
But I owe a debt of thanks to Stoker. For this kind person pointed out something that is easy to miss. If Unionists or 77th Brigade post material that could be gerrymandered into Stuart Campbell being put in harm’s way, there are MANY here who will let him know via Wings line of communication to Stuart.
I can now finish the back-shift and get a good night’s sleep thanks to Stoker. Much appreciated.
——————————————————-
STOKER SAYS…
11 August, 2021 at 12:32 pm
@Al-Stuart
Noticed your concern regarding ‘The Rev’ and the risk to the btl comments of someone posting illegal material etc. I think your concern level may be just a wee bit misplaced, and i don’t mean that in any nasty dig at you.
Hopefully this will help put your mind a little bit more at ease. But Stuart has already issued a very stern & clear warning to *anyone* attempting to post such information on this blog. He made it *very* clear anyone attempting it would have their comment removed, banned from this site & all their details held over to the police.
And don’t forget, Stuart doesn’t have to be monitoring this site 24/7. He has plenty of accomplices, thousands of pairs of eyes that are only too happy to inform him should they see any such comments. My love for this blog ensures i’m one of them and i’m pretty sure you too would take a similar position should the need arise.
No need to worry, we have his back.
Thankyou Stoker,
If I were able buy you a pint or a dram in appreciation, I would.
@Scott
Your witty, light-on-the-feet style was let down by your engaging in predictable abuse towards me.
Just wondering if you have got anything else to say except fall for the urge to throw shit at people who make uncomfortable observations? Pretty much as I said would happen in the points I was making.
J.o.e says:
12 August, 2021 at 7:35 am
@Scott
Your witty, light-on-the-feet style was let down by your engaging in predictable abuse towards me.
Reply
J.o.e complaining about abuse!!! That’s a cracker coming from someone who called me ‘a fuckin’ thick twat’
I think perhaps what Scotland’s entire YES community is missing is coordination.
When “ordinary” people in the world wake up in the morning, it’s on with the TV or radio, and hands on the phone or tablet to “log in” to the world again and learn of any unfolding developments.
Most folks I know have a routine. Sit down with a coffee and breakfast and consume information as if it’s your “briefing” for conversations likely to arise later in the day. Some folks it’s sports, others it’s politics…
I detest and mistrust the BBC with a passion, but their headlines are often worth Googling just to check if there’s substance of interest but from less jaded perspectives. The BBC can put you on the scent of a thing, but never trust the BBC’s interpretation or presentation of the story.
Getting off point here…
The point is the YES Movement doesn’t really have a mass transit type Hub… The one stop HQ where you can tune in by TV, Radio, Internet, and pick up everything YES related.
Just imagine that… a hub that right now would be as welcoming and objective to SNP / ALBA / NO to YES… whatever. It reported on the campaign in a detached way and diffused debate and dissent by chairing discussions like the old days of Panorama with objectivity and substance.. not the pap which passes for political debate nowadays. Proper informed debate without a press release in sight.
I know there are various hubs, blogs and websites attempting to do that, whether it was Nana’s links or the Voices page… link to voices.scot , or indeed YES hubs and communication nodes… I know they exist, but the coordination is lacking.
In my humble opinion, the problem with a lot of YES “stuff” is that the good quality stuff that’s out there is impermanent. It’s like it’s written in sand, but once the tide comes in, it’s all gone, washed away, and we’re starting all over again.
Take sovereignty… We shouldn’t have to keep churning out the narrative over, and over, and over again. There should a matrix of YES Information that has this information permanently available for reference. If the thing is controversial or disputed, present both sides of the dispute and invite progressive commentary or edit… A bit like a mini-Wikipedia for Scottish Indy.
All our burgeoning media “stations” and outlets, some are great, some a bit rough at the edges, but surely we can support a “YES Central” where these outlets are brought together. Bring them into contact with each other so the smooth operators can help take some of the rough edges off their friends productions. Maybe get fully coordinated and start full on TV productions, perhaps even a truly Scottish News bulletin and newsroom.
There might be a segment reviewing blogs the way Mainstream Broadcasters review the newspapers.
I think we need to turn ourselves into a matrix, a three dimensional spiders web where nothing happens in isolation, any movement is instantly sensed throughout the network.
Your BBC crosses platforms from TV and radio, Websites, media players and Apps… It has “everything” under a single umbrella of corporate image. And in my humble opinion, the YES movement needs something similar.
The BBC has it’s pet anchors and identifiable reporters like Laura Kuenssberg. Shouldn’t we also have a YES Reporter whom we all know and trust by the sound of their voice? We’re almost getting there with Lesley Riddoch, but “pure-news” spokesperson would be good for us I think. It must be important because the BBC does it all the time. Think of Toodle-oo Brian Taylor being the served up as the guru of Scottish Politics. Why does the BBC use the same faces over and over again? – because it’s familiar and people trust it.
We need to study our enemies and dissect what they do, and start being wise to it, and where appropriate, start doing it right back at them.
I firmly believe Wings Over Scotland has functioned in this capacity for years, and if Rev Stu does close it down, then what, 600,000 people will be munching their morning toast not knowing where to go to log in for the day. Before we lose Wings, we need to identify what makes Wings work and build upon what Wings has started and we keep it going…
Rev Stu. Uberblogger. A man barely alive. Gentlemen, we have the technology. We can rebuild him. Better, stronger,.. faster.
@Breeks
Centralised coordination is powerful and I think Scots need to start doing exactly that.
However such an approach lacks flexibility and is prone to being taken over or shut down.
The voices.scot site that was linked by Stuart Mackay is a good inbetween. The only thing I dislike is the colour scheme which are similar to those of Common Purpose.
I think the 1 thing I would add is if someone can do a daily blog roundup on video and summarise which blogs are saying what – similar to what the MSM do with the papers.
What the YES movement needs is a leader. Someone who inspires, a revolutionary and ‘Sheher’ most definitely ain’t that.
I’m trying to imagine ‘Sheher’ as a suffragette.
She would be saying
‘Oh no Emmeline you can’t do that it’s illegal.
Words not deeds Emmeline’
As a poll tax protester she would be saying
‘Oh no Tommy you can’t do that it’s illegal.
You could end up in Saughton jail.’
Lets all go home and wait until Maggie Thatcher is no longer in power.’
Breeks says:
Before we lose Wings, we need to identify what makes Wings work and build upon what Wings has started and we keep it going…
Reply
My guess is Wings worked because Stu is everything “Sheher’ isn’t. An inspirational revolutionary.
Breeks@08.05
Well put. I looked at the Voices link and will look at the links in detail later. Your point about corporate identity is also very important. The site needs to have a much clearer identifiable image. Probably needs a more professional redesign. But it also needs at least a small team dedicated to all the innumerable small tasks that keep a website interesting to look at, up-to-date and easy to find via Google. And all that requires a certain basic assured income. Could this be done via a well-coordinated crowdfunder?
J.o.e says:
The only thing I dislike is the colour scheme which are similar to those of Common Purpose.
Reply
ROFL
Another cracker from J.o.e
Anyone up for it?
link to facebook.com
I’m wondering if having all these sites online is a good idea.
Perhaps in the current climate an underground movement/underground press would be a lot safer.
@Ruby
Banter and bullshit aside im honestly not sure what is so funny about that.
J.o.e says:
12 August, 2021 at 9:02 am
@Ruby
Banter and bullshit aside im honestly not sure what is so funny about that.
Reply
You focusing on the colour scheme is what is funny!
Nally Anders says:
12 August, 2021 at 8:53 am
Anyone up for it?
link to facebook.com
Reply
The downside of advertising this on the internet is that everyone will be prepared for the demo.
Sheher will ignore it and nick out the back door.
‘Whathisname’ from River City will be there to record any ‘hate crime’
MSM will not attend.
Here again an underground movement/underground press could be the answer.
@Ruby
If I posted a resource that had something resembling a swastika in it people would find it off-putting because it resembles something else and therefore could have something to do with it.
Same thing. Common purpose is not an organisation to take lightly.
Unless of course you are just happy to be ignorant.
J.O.E.
“I dislike the colour scheme”.
If you are referring to the green, white and purple colours heading ‘Voices’ site,
these are the colours of the Suffragette movement, re adopted by women opposed to GRA and in support of the fight to retain women’s rights.
Stuart McKay as the top banner says supports Marion Millar, whose case comes to court next week so the choice of colours is deliberate.
If we all recall Marion has been accused of causing alarm to a 3rd rate soap actor by tweeting a picture of ribbons tied to a tree. Said actor says the green, white and purple ribbons represent a noose. A position Police Scotland seem to agree with, hence Marion’s arrest.
If nothing else this case highlights what we all believe is the future of free speech under the HCB. Mere offence is promoted to ‘Hate’.
If Marion is convicted, every single one of us is at risk.
On a brighter note. Joanna Cherry is defending on a pro bono basis.
Probably another nail in the coffin of her career.
Sturgeon will be ‘ragin’. – Magic!!
Nally Anders says:
12 August, 2021 at 9:20 am
J.O.E.
“I dislike the colour scheme”.
If you are referring to the green, white and purple colours heading ‘Voices’ site,
these are the colours of the Suffragette movement, re adopted by women opposed to GRA and in support of the fight to retain women’s rights.
Reply
Telt!
PMPL!
link to commonpurpose.org
Anybody who wants to look into this organisation and what it has been up to for a long time now will understand my comment.
Which will probably amount to a large round 0
But fair enough – its just colours. I can live with that
Ruby
We have to advertise it or no-one will turn up but really, do any of them use the front door? Sturgeon’s limo probably drops her off a the back door anyway.
The point is to be present and vocal. It’s all you can do.
Meanwhile the Madwha, rape victims are ‘bigots’ story continues to roll on.
link to spiked-online.com
Beaker says:
11 August, 2021 at 9:05 pm
@Scott says:
11 August, 2021 at 7:59 pm
“Scotland can withdraw from this union at any time.”
“Being serious, if that is the case, then why did Salmond not do that at the height of his power?”
Because when AS started the indyref campaign support for indy among the Scottish people was only around 27%. It was AS who, over the course of that campaign brought support for indy up to 45% and of course that kept rising as a consequence. There would have been no recognition for indy without that rise in support, either within Scotland and UK, or worldwide if it was not the established will of the Scottish people. AS, therefore, took the correct steps in buidling support via an indyref campaign. But even back then, AS did point out that there were other paths to indy – which was one of the reasons Cameron gave in and signed the s30 so that all could be seen to be above board and done correctly. Thta was one of the reasons why support rose over the campaign period. Now, even with Sturgeons efforts to kill off indy support, there is still around 50% in favour, hence other routes to indy have become more viable, particularly in the light of the breach of union that was brexit. And now we know that throughout the world, our indy plan is accpeted and even applauded. Whole different ballgame now – if only Sturgeon got her finger out her ******.
Support for Independence rose dramatically when the SNP and particularly Mr Salmond had Wings over Scotland working WITH them. Stuart’s combined talents of hard work, research and presentation skills are what gave us the boost and it’s why he is a marked man by anyone who wishes to keep the status quo for their own ends.
Nally Anders says:
12 August, 2021 at 9:35 am
Ruby
We have to advertise it or no-one will turn up but really, do any of them use the front door? Sturgeon’s limo probably drops her off a the back door anyway.
The point is to be present and vocal. It’s all you can do.
Meanwhile the Madwha, rape victims are ‘bigots’ story continues to roll on.
link to spiked-online.com
Reply
They use the front door when they come out to be interviewed by the press, photographed with protesters from groups they approve of
ie trans rights campaigners.
I don’t think she’ll come out the front door on the 2nd Sept.
They’ll be no ‘selfies’
The limo will leave from the carpark which is at the back in front of Dynamic Earth. The windows will be blacked out to prevent any passenger seeing out or any protester seeing in.
I would love to see you write a TV series script or a film script Wings. Something that shows off all your talents to these Unionist morons and makes you rich at the same time
@Nally Anders,
i think the offending tweet showed a ribbon that was actually tied to a fence not a tree,
but the transcult and their shills and handmaidens at MSM/social media use `tree` because it portrays a picture of a noose hanging from a tree instead of a couple of colourful ribbons tied to a fence which in fact it was,
Fact number 1 of the transcult,
`There is no facts`.
Re politicians using the front door.
There are a couple of entrances at the side on the Canongate which I take to be staff entrances.
What I do know is a lot of them walk up/down the Royal Mile presumable to get to the station. They would have used either the front or side entrances.
I don’t think any of them would be interested in the protest or taking a “selfie” to show support.
@Scot Finlayson
The trouble is though Scot it had to happen full swing before it was recognised as a problem. Despite the warning signs being there for all to see.
Whoever pointed it out before it became a facet of the tyranny we now face was shouted down by the very people who are outraged now.
Are we going to learn from that or not?
“If we all recall Marion has been accused of causing alarm to a 3rd rate soap actor by tweeting a picture of ribbons tied to a tree. Said actor says the green, white and purple ribbons represent a noose. A position Police Scotland seem to agree with, hence Marion’s arrest.”
——————
If anything looks like a “noose”, it’s certainly the SNP logo.
In fact, on their website if you hold the cursor over it, it rotates, so they must have done it on purpose.
The said actor must be a bag of nerves having to look at it every day. When are the police going to step in..??
Nally Anders says:
12 August, 2021 at 9:35 am
Ruby
We have to advertise it or no-one will turn up but really,
Reply
I understand that. How about collecting email/phone numbers from everyone who turns up as a way to contact them directly in order to organise a surprise flash mob at a time when you can’t be ignored.
‘I understand that. How about collecting email/phone numbers from everyone who turns up as a way to contact them directly in order to organise a surprise flash mob at a time when you can’t be ignored.’
Yep because the police/security services never have people attending such groups.
holymacmoses says: at 9:54 am
“I would love to see you write a TV series script or a film script Wings. Something that shows off all your talents to these Unionist morons and makes you rich at the same time”
————————-
In which case he should team up with Gareth Wardell (Grousebeater) 🙂 Two people with brains and talent to make it a good film.
They could call it “Brainspotting”
J.o.e says:
12 August, 2021 at 10:26 am
‘I understand that. How about collecting email/phone numbers from everyone who turns up as a way to contact them directly in order to organise a surprise flash mob at a time when you can’t be ignored.’
Yep because the police/security services never have people attending such groups.
Reply
Your paranoia is showing again J.O.E.
@ Ruby at 3.38pm
It’s not really paranoia though, is it Ruby.
The very reason those in power manage to protect themselves and retain their position and influence is because they actually use their brains to effectively implement strategies that gain them an advantage over the less aware masses who stupidly suggest “they’d never do that sort of thing”.
I recall at one AUOB march a few folk were going round the marchers asking them to complete a pretty involved multi-page survey on who they were, what organisations they were involved with, and their reasons for wanting Scotland to return to being a self governing country.
Now the details in all those surveys might just have been for some professor or a PHD study, but undoubtedly that sort of information gleaned from pretty hardcore committed Indy supporters would be rather useful to certain parties.
Vaccine hesitancy by education.
link to unherd.com
Turns out the PhD’s are the most hesitant group.
@ Breeks 8.05am I posted a request over on Yours For Scotland asking Iain and Roddy to arrange for Mike Fenwick of Twa Auld Heids infamy to come on the PRISM to elaborate and expand on his proposition for declared SOVEREIGN SCOTS to approach the UN and possibly the ICJ via stated independent DECLARATIONS
As you have stated upthread this is where the YES movement is and has been failing , the dissemination , spread and clarity of information , it is fantastic having so many independence supporting bloggers and some vloggers but even they don’t agree collectively on the proper way forward
I had great hopes for broadcasting Scotland and enjoyed indy car Gordon but they alongside others have turned into SNP and Sturgeon fanzones and apologists repeating the hold, hold mantra and St Nicla has it under control rubbish , some of the broadcasters were threatened on twatter when they posted views and comments contrary to the Sturgeon dogma
Previously the SNP maintained that they kept separation and distanced themselves between bloggers and vloggers under the auspices that it denied the MSM opportunity to decry and associate unruly behaviour with the political party , some of us knew that excuse to be a crock of shit , the truth was they were ashamed of the UNWASHED who didn’t fit in to their middle class credo
Sturgeon managed to donate £3million of our good Scottish pounds to a msm owned by tax exiles who vehemently oppose Scottish independence and who will collaborate, lie and misinform on behalf of WM to keep Scotland catchd
Just think how that money could have been used to inform and educate people on the benefits of independence by a PROPER INDY MEDIA
Dan says:
12 August, 2021 at 4:16 pm
@ Ruby at 3.38pm
It’s not really paranoia though, is it Ruby.
Reply
Yes it is!
Especially if your first thought is we can’t do that ‘cos
Big Brother is watching.
Lets say the police/security services find out about the planned secret protest what they gonna do?
Phone up ‘Manky Shirt & Whathisname from River City’ to tell them about the protest?
Tell Nicola to use the back door to avoid the protesters?
That isn’t any different to what happens if the event is advertised on the internet.
I’m just putting forward the idea that secret protests & an underground press might be something to think about.
Dan says:
12 August, 2021 at 4:16 pm
@ Ruby at 3.38pm
The very reason those in power manage to protect themselves and retain their position and influence is because they actually use their brains to effectively implement strategies that gain them an advantage
Reply
Any reason why we lesser mortals can’t use our brains to gain an advantage?
@Ruby
Im not belittling your idea. But trust me, as someone with ‘extreme’ understandings and who isnt very politically correct I can assure you that you will not be able to organise a ‘secret’ anything.
In fact, the better you hide it the more interest you will garner.
The people in charge do not like grass roots. If they can’t control it they will use agent provocateurs to get it out of control so that police can then use force.
You might notice that all the ideas i have are out in the open and obvious for law enforcement (and everyone else) to see.
J.o.e says:
12 August, 2021 at 8:41 pm
@Ruby
Im not belittling your idea. But trust me, as someone with ‘extreme’ understandings and who isnt very politically correct I can assure you that you will not be able to organise a ‘secret’ anything.
In fact, the better you hide it the more interest you will garner.
The people in charge do not like grass roots. If they can’t control it they will use agent provocateurs to get it out of control so that police can then use force.
You might notice that all the ideas i have are out in the open and obvious for law enforcement (and everyone else) to see
Reply
‘extreme’ understandings???
It all sounds very dangerous! Probably best to do nothing!
Just stay hidden under the duvet.
lol. It was sarcasm. You are getting towards having extremism by believing women can’t have dicks – never mind thinking that Scots aren’t black.
Just logged back onto this thread. I can assure all the Wing nuts here that, whoever Ron Maclean is, he isn’t Rob Brown. Those who accuse me of seeking to destroy Alba – as if that were necessary after all its disgraced chieftain has done – should read my latest post. It might bring a smile to their snarling faces.
link to jaggy.blog