The unacceptable face of politics
Is mine, of course. From last night’s Scotland Tonight, in case you missed it:
Particular kudos to STV for finding footage (it’s right at the start of this clip) of Clare Lally introducing and launching Johann Lamont’s Scottish Labour leadership bid in November 2011, even though the Daily Record said in August 2012 that she had “no previous political experience”. We expect someone will resign.
Susan Dalgety’s performance is as remarkable as it is hypocritical. From the first seconds, she dodges almost every question and embarks instead on a series of rants entirely tangential (at best) to the subject under discussion, raging against a whole series of straw men nobody else had raised, and then constantly trying to interrupt someone (ie me) who was at least trying to stay vaguely on-topic.
Weirdly, despite just having been on a TV show with me, in which both she and host Rona Dougall repeatedly referred to me as “Stuart” (reasonably, as that’s my name), she tweeted later the same evening that I was actually someone called Alan Barbour:
Despite repeated requests, she’s refused to forward the supposed email, hasn’t publicly retracted the allegation and won’t delete the tweet or elaborate any further on its contents. I fear, readers, that she may be a little crazy. (Which probably means that STV put me in the same category. C’est la vie.)
Resignation? I fear your recent excellent TV exposure has fuddled your head Stu! An apology for misrepresentation perhaps? Of course not!
Oh, I see a blue moon is forecast!
We expect someone will resign.
Don’t hold your breath.
Wow she’s a barrel of laughs, eh? 😛 Still the world would be a better place I’m sure if repeatedly denying any counter-arguments to yours made you right.
“I think she may be a little crazy.” That’s putting it mildly. But on balance, was Flipper’s vote yes and you’re a nazi last week any less nuts?
She certainly has something of the night about her.
Cool calm and collected Rev and thought STV and help me Rona did a fair job.
Well done.
Well done laddie, you did well.
Well done Stu – calm and accurate.
Stu, we are so lucky to have you…
Oh does anyone know where I can hear the Naughtie interview this morn with the Scottish Gov lady, I hear she put in a barnstormer. Dont think it will be on iplayer yet.
http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/agenda-2015/npf-representatives/clare-lally?filter%5Btype%5D=only_regional&filter%5Bregion%5D=7
You’ll note that Clare Lally’s position on the National Policy Forum ISN’T EVEN ABOUT CARERS. Her position is on “Britain’s Global Role.” When will her lies be be exposed?
Not helpful but my tweet was the first shown. Internet fame at last lol
If she ask me its all gone ‘doolally” 😉
Slight O/T
Delivering papers earlier today and was accosted and shouted at by a guy who claimed that I and the rest of the “cybernats” were threatening to shoot Clare Lally (and Anus Sarwar, but that was less important). I’m sure the guy believed what he was saying, but my (silly) comment that he might be mistaken was greeted with another load of personal abuse, so I left.
I think Susan Dalgety’s just a little in love with you, Stu!
Great stuff Stu, you handled yourself perfectly.
That Dalgety woman seems to be a nasty hateful human being.
At 9:29 in the video when Rona mentions that YES will need to win over women voters. Dalgetys` little facial contortion when she says “it does” is priceless.
She is thinking, ” HA we got them on this misogynist smear, i am so smug and proud of myself right now”
But in actuality i think that Dalgety comes across to everyone, yes and no alike, both male and female as a very unlikable lump of wind.
Where do the Labour Party find all of these people? Seriously! I loved here “I think you’re based in England?” remark to the Rev. What a petty, parochial and narrow nationalistic thing to say. There would never be a huge media outcry if a pro-independence person had said that to a unionist Scot living in England. Right?
bunter
It was Anabelle Ewing, and she really left Naughtie speechless and spinning. More from Anabelle please.
Why is Rona misinformed about the New Statesman. Doesn’t she read WingsOverScotland? good grief.
Susan sounds like an overheating pug when she’s breathing… 😀
@Rev,so is that your alter ego Alan the Barber in the bath,
mental disengagement fae Susan Dalgety,from the same stable
as Mc Teirnan,arent we lucky to have them on the other side,
LoL.
Ghengis D’Midgies
Haha. Yeah, maybe Rona just pretended to be misinformed.
@ Justin Ross
Thanx!
Just read more of the Survation poll and voting intentions for SNP 46% and SLab 28%. Its clear this stramash is a diversionary tactic.
Mrs Dalgety’s reaction at the 9:30 mark regarding women in the indyref debate seems quite telling. Right, Wings body langauge experts, what is she saying here? 🙂
You are all cybernazi scum of the Voldemort-arian race-muggle-hating kind. Shame on you. Shame on you for questioning them. shame on you for having a fikken BEARD!!!!
Clearly this was a well Orchestrated and implemented plan to put women off voting for YES. It was a trap and muggins fell into it. Even if what he said was unbelieveably non controversial.
Oh well maybe Sarah Smith will get Tom Conti, that well know foreigner on the case to say we are all a bit “silly” for having an opinion which does not match the establishement and for having a dream.
You scumbags beard wearing muggle unpureblood.
Laugh of the night was her smug, patronising “Let me explain how the Scottish media works”.
Thinking that you, of all people, need enlightening on the ways of the Scottish MSM shows either a lack of research into her subject or simply a breath-taking degree of arrogance and feelings of superiority.
@bunter 1.17
Anabelle Ewing was on top form this morning and lt seemed James Naughtie was caught out by her quick thinking and articulacy. She even managed to rubbish BBC on air, in the nicest possible way.
You did good Stu. no surprise there.
But Susan Dalgety? If she was aide to Jack mcConnel no wonder Labour are in the mess they’re in.
And is that C word she mentioned CLOWN is it? Lordy…
It is perfectly clear that there was no “attack” on Ms Lally in the e-mail. It is perfectly clear that there were two statements, one of which was factually wrong but not in any way derogatory. An apology for the error of fact has been given and rejected: not very gracious at all
In this clip Ms Dalgety was all over the place: it seemed to me she had no coherent case to make at all. The Unionists continue to try to make out that all of the abuse is coming from the Yes side: indeed on Scotland 14 the presenter asked the SNP spokesperson to say whether the SNP should be taking action to stop it: a question not put to the Conservative spokesperson, at least not in the clip I saw. The implication is clear. It is also false.
As Mr Campbell said, it is not the general public on social media who are setting the tone of this debate: that would be official representatives who have repeatedly abused the First Minister and others, using the lowest of gutter language. I consider the “blood and soil” statement, and likening the First Minister to Kim Jong il, is hate speech far worse than using the “c” word, though I realise we are not supposed to think that. Pardon me if my sensibilities differ slightly from those of middle england: who seem to think you can make any vile statement you like so long as certain “bad words” are avoided: which demonstrates merely that they mistake manners for morals, at best.
Nobody should be abused, and we all agree about that. But this is desperate stuff.
Ah, so that’s what you look like 😉
Will have a watch of this tonight, missed it when it was on the telly due to avoiding political programmes late evening because they tend to annoy me and don’t help me sleep… or so the wife says. Personally I think it’s a move to stop me from fighting in my dreams and kicking her out of bed. Apparently I talk in my sleep and I’m ‘very angry all the time.’ Total contrast to normal demeanour.
And I’ll have to watch it tonight anyway, since work computers very helpfully do not have speakers that work.
I never realised you were so handsome Rev.
So is Susan Dalgety going to resign or be given the sack for committing the exact same crime she denounces Alex Salmond’s Special Advisor for, of mistaking someone for someone else?
Well done Stuart, and well done Rona and STV for managing a semblance of fairness even if they fudged Darling’s smear.
EXCELLENT point about how abuse from Yes comes from fringe nutters with 20 followers while abuse from No comes from the top.
As for Ms Dalgety and her “mistaking” Stu. By using the wrong name she was probably trying to dismiss your utterances.
My sister used to call people who annoyed her Senga.(apologies to Sengas reading)!
Somebody give Cockers his specs back..
Found it funny on STV Player last night! STV Catchup would be more appropriate! It looks like the only person involved in that debate that was up to date and willing to discuss current issues was yourself young man – you didn’t take any prisoners when trying to put your point across and the other 2 wanted to sidestep your points mainly because they didn’t have a clue! Well done!
Just watched it. Well done for not getting sidetracked.
I think anyone watching that will see Labour as devious (which they are).
That’s got to be a result.
@petermackbeastie – I share your pain brother 🙂 (sleeping after political programmes! Thursday nights are the worst!)
“I think she’s an extraordinary mother, because she cares for her young child 24 hours a day.”
Extraordinary indeed then that she has time during the remaining hours of the day to indulge herself in Better Together activities.
I’m astonished!
To be honest, Stuart, I don’t know if you caught Ian MacWhirter having a right old barney with John McTernan just after you. At one point, I think even McTernan realised that even he had crossed a line, because he certainly reeled himself back in.
They are scared. They can hold up as many polls as they want, but something tells me that they’ve seen something that keeps cropping up again and again and again. I think the polls definitely show either level-pegging (or dare whisper it …Yes are winning…)
Susan Dalgety’s behaviour on Twitter today is fascinating. A curious mixture of self-pity, mock outrage, cute kitten pictures and continued vilification of the dastardly cybernats. (backed up by no proper evidence)
It may or may not be significant but there are no leading Labour figures rallying to her support, either.
Very well done Rev. I particularly liked your notion that most ordinary mums aren’t part of the Labour shadow cabinet!
Desperate stuff from the no campaign this week, ahead of some stunning poll results showing YES again gaining ground (and Labour in rapid retreat on Holyrood voting intention).
@ Kenny
Interesting in light of the fact that the story is:
She is an ordinary mum…oh, well, an ordinary mum who fights for disability rights…well, I mean she is an ordinary mum who has decided to join the labour party the better to fight for disability rights…er..that is, an ordinary mum who decided to join the labour party and is an adviser to the Shadow Cabinet on disability because that is her sole concern….well apart from her expertise on globalisation, obviously….um…would you just shut up and accept that you are just vile for even bringing this up…..
Watched STV news last night to actually catch what was going on in Iraq, as I missed the story from the previous night. Was funny watching Willie Hague squirm at some nice hard questioning about that the UK government have now “caused”. To then have the pleasure of seeing Stu and McWhirter get stuck in about the lies and mistruths of the NO side was simply divine !! Well done to you both….and well done to STV as well I guess….I even got the impression that they were on “your” side…..surely not !??? As a footnote….After learning about the Iraq situation, it’s certainly plausible that the US and UK governments will , again , find it impossible to stop themselves getting involved , and we’ll find ourselves going to war , yet again…..As terrible as it would be for this to happen , I feel it would actually push a lot of people in the NO camp to YES….. Time will tell.
I heard Annabelle speak at a Yes Scotland town hall meeting…I was pleasantly surprised at how well she communicated.
Did anyone hear Naughtie this morning on the article about social media. I loved the continual references to how balanced the MSM are…well I laughed a lot.
AAH, Im afraid her Sainthood is shortlived, back to being an ordinary housewife ?
Calls for Campbell Gunns’ resignation is the top story on BBC Scotland’s homepage. Surprise surprise, so no collusion between the No campaign and the BBC there then.
Good performance, Stuart. Glad you managed to make the point about the real abuse coming from senior Labour politicians on the No side.
I thought the wee guy with the beard was quite good, STV should use him more often!
Dalgety was…a twat. Typical Labour airhead who comes across as being in Spin Mode from the moment she wakes in the morning, full of faux indignation about the supposed rancour of the Yes supporters.
Rhona was better than she usually is, I thought?
Very well done Rev.. One criticism tho.. You need to get the little head nod of “thanks” when the host signs you off… look to that Churchhill dug for lessons 😉
“bawbags and zoomers” quality terms and I’m glad that they have entered the debate, I know loads of them. 😛
Stu, did you dye your beard for the telly?
I also think your cheap Star Trek jumper is a rubbish rip-off. The arrow should be gold, goes on the other side and placed vertical not horizontal
🙂
I particularly the sharp intake of breath from the hard core Labour person when another Labour person was described by your good self as hard core Labour.
Which is entirely correct https://archive.today/iuEZs
I hope to see much, much more of Susan Dalgety over the next 100 days. I want many, many more people to listen to what she has to say on complicated subjects.
I’d also quite like Rona to listen to the ‘blood and soil’ audio again. I have and I don’t need anyone to transcribe it for me. The NS interviewer asked if the SNP supported blood and soil nationalism, & Darling said “Yes, at heart,” clearly disagreeing. Rona’s attempt to ignore it was unwelcome.
STV’s Scotland Tonight explored the issues and, to my mind at least, was fair and balanced. On the other hand, BBC’s Scotland 2014 coverage (watched this morning on the iPlayer) was laughably one sided and a disgrace to a broadcaster charged with impartiality. It’s no wonder that practically no-one watches that programme “live”, although I’m sure Ruth and Johann both love it.
liked, I meant liked. I guess this seems out of place now.
Well done, hope the bite marks on your tongue heal up soon 😉
Calm and intelligent, Rev. Great to watch and hear. Can I call you Stu, now?
Gosh! Isn’t Susan Dalgety an absolutly gorgeous woman? And she is so intelligent as well. I love the way she is able to grasp the point of an argument and argue her case in such a cogent and convincing manner.
There now! That didn’t insult anyone did it?
Far am bi a’ mhuc, bidh an fhail-mhuc.
Your Britain is the British Labour Party website where it recently buried the report it commissioned disabled activists and academics to write into disability and poverty. It has still to publish a version online which is even accessible to disabled people.
Compare Labour’s silence and disinterest in its own report to the recent fanfare and publicity the Scottish Government gave to its own Expert Working Group on Welfare report Re-thinking Welfare: Fair Personal and Simple. It’s like night and day.
Your Britian Reference –
Breaking the link between Poverty and Disability
Is it just me, or does it look like Susan Dalgety cannot hear what Rhona is saying? For instance, when she’s first asked a question, she leans forward as if she cannot hear, and then she says something that has nothing to do with the question. Either that, or she’s simply decided to say what she wants no matter what.
Congratulations Stu, that was an excellent piece of interviewing last night. Kudos to you for managing to achieve the impossible, staying on topic whilst your opponent wandered all over the place.
p.s. I’ve just realised you were in the corner of the pub open air section before last year’s march. I was in the wheel chair along with my partner her daughter and grandson who had stopped down the alleyway. If I had known what you looked like then I would have introduced us to you, too late for a badge unfortunately. 😛
If you want to listen to Anabelle Ewing’s interview on the radio this morning its here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045c3fx
Starting at 2:36:50
“STUART LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW THE MEDIA WORKS”
Condescending cow.
She had nothing of substance to say. Ducked the questions, and got in a few sly digs about Rev not living in Scotland.
I went to a Kiltr debate at the CCA in Glasgow a few weeks back with Susan Dalgety arguing alongside John McTernan against The Artist Taxi Driver (aka Chunky Mark, aka Mark McGowan) and Brian Cox (actor).
In the debate Susan Dalgety kept bringing up straw man arguments and not answering the questions, as mentioned above. I have not actually watched last night’s performances yet, but I immediately recognised that description.
Dr Stephen Watson, from Academics for Yes (not sure if he’s on Wings) also asked a belter of a question at this debate quoting back some very specific comments from McTernan’s past much to his surprise!
I was with Truth from Wings, who tends to have a better memory than me for these things, so perhaps he can remember some of what was said.
I never saw it last night ,I have really stopped watching anything political or news on mainstream channels a waste of time.
That said Stu ,you were brilliant you got over every point that needed saying and stressed that no evidence of any abuse has been forthcoming.
Your fellow debater ,what can I say beyond , was she really an adv isor to a previous FM??
she was not the most articulate and seemed ,shall I say a little excitable.
Really loved Susan Dalgety’s melodramatic open-mouthed gasp at one point. More calculated and theatrical over-statement bordering on the comical coming from the BT side.
@Harris Tottle
Muc breagach cunnartach
Jings, I didn’t go to the debate WITH Susan Dalgety! Just thought I’d clarify that!
I was NOT arguing alongside her!!!
(Got to be more careful with my grammar!)
Triangular Ears,
here is a link to a video of the KILTR debate you refer to which someone posted yesterday on WOS –
Debate #3 – The Media. Live from the CCA Glasgow 25th May 2014
The KILTR Referendum Debates
@Harris Tottle
Should of course state I am replying to your gaelic statement of which I fully agree
Far am bi a’mhuc, bidh an fhail-mhuc.
(Where the sow is, there you will find the pigsty)
Works for me Stu. Shall we send more cash?
Brilliant and brave. You tell it like it is and they can’t handle it.
Watched last night taped Scotland 2014
Sarah Smith is as neutral as a golf gti in 1st gear
Who was that crazy cow with the glasses? oh sheet just used the c word what a cvnt i am. 😉
Great quote from Annabelle Ewing this morning during an interview with Naughtie;
“I’m not entirely sure I remember a BBC radio programme focused on the terrible abusive that they (WEIRS) had to suffer”
Nice wee dig and of course entirely true.
It amazes me the people of Scotland havent waken up to the crazy batshit liebour party. I mean its like that everyday crazy batshit lies that the public seem to eat up yum yum give us more we love this crazy batshit party.
I love that. “Stuart, let ME explain how the media in Scotland works” haha Now, if we could team her up with Gordon Brown, we could be onto a winner.
Well, it looks to me that its a real drama over nothing.
500,000 POOR WEE SOULS, fleeing their homes in Iraq, indirectly due to Anglo American warmongering and this lady going on about this.
Doesnt make sense to me.
I don’t think Susan Dalgety is any way representative of most Scottish women, and I don’t think we will hear or see much of Clare Lally in the future either.
Is anyone else just completely fucked off with this unionist projection pish? Lamont in that piece alleging collusion on the Yes side? Seriously? The unionists do nothing but collude with their MSM buddies. Tomorrow’s headlines of faux outrage are usually predicted either here or on twitter FFS!
I look at Ms Dalgety and wonder at the state of Labour in Scotland. My Dad, an old Labour die-hard, a former steelman who spent a year on strike in support of the miners and 82 yesterday, shakes his head in frustration.
‘Tony Blair. New Labour’ he says, gutted.
Enough to make this grown man (me) cry. The old man is a stoic. I wonder how he keeps it all in.
Has any journalist thought to ask Blair for his views on Iraq today?
Well done Rev, you’re becoming quite the celeb. You’re going to have to think about personal appearance now, need a tan and an oil up so that you are all shiny for the women voters! Brilliant, it was like watching the Rocky movies. We’re going to do this and they are now into “completely bricking it” mode. Loved the use of “zoomers” straight talking and will totally relate to REAL ordinary people
FFs Rev time for another crowd funder we should be aiming to get you a mansion with enough space for a newspaper and television station. lol bt wouldent know what hit them. 😉
I thought you were excellent Rev, you were clear concise and straight to the point, and you delivered the Alistair Darling , blood and soil remark superbly. Susan Dalgety was all over the place,and actually failed to answer her very first question, from there on in it was down hill for her.
I must say the focused scowl and the Abraham Lincoln beard gave you an air of authority, hopefully they’ll invite you back on the show.
Well done Stu – keep the level head, deal in the facts.
I wish everyone would stop the shit slinging and represent people speaking on either side of the debate for what they and their interests actually are.
When I first saw the name Dalgety in a comment on another thread I thought “it couldn’t be, could it?” but it is! None other than the former senior writer and out and out Nat basher from the Edinburgh Evening news. I used to wonder what happened to her, now I know. You’ll find a useful resume here: McConnell international foundation then search for Susan Dalgety.
Excellent contribution last night. Cool, calm and collected unlike your opponent who I suspect, may have other issues to worry about.
most impressive Stu you stepped into the lions den and came out without a scratch well done ,got to say im surprised though as i feared the worst when i heard you would be on had visions of them trying to tag you as some crazed lunatic blogger but for once STV actually kept it reasonably fair.
Is this woman related to the Dalgety Bay where the radio active material was dumped? That would explain a lot.
My favourite bit was when Susan Dalgety offered to tell Rev Stu how the media works in Scotland 🙂
I know many ordinary Mums, in fact my best friend’w wife is an ordinary mum. Strangely she doesn’t support Weapons of Mass destruction being stationed in Scotland. My own mum is an ordinary mum and she doesn’t support a political party that endorses the Bedroom Tax. My sister in law is an ordinary mum, she is appalled at the economics of greed that have resulted in the poor getting poorer and people relying on food banks. None of these ordinary mums support the Labour party. That must make them extraordinary mums.
fairiefromtheearth
An SNP majority at Holyrood with constant high approval ratings would at least suggest the slumbering giant is getting restless!
@ NL Says
“You’re going to have to think about personal appearance now, need a tan and an oil up so that you are all shiny for the women voters! ”
They’ll be suggesting that you undo another button on yer shirt next Stu, and wearing a medallion.
🙂
Great TV presence Stu – hopefully we will see a bit more of you in the next 98 days.
So,was JK Rowling the one with the beard or the one with the glasses??…..Meanwhile,the nukes are still on the Clyde.Folk are still going to the food bank.
Ive just realised whats been perplecing me about the Revs pic above….
The Rev..the missing link between Will Weaton in Big Bang Theory and director of the wonderful Dogma, Kevin Smith 🙂
Iraq today lol the Saddam youth are doing exactly what the army said they would do in 1991 thats why their was no searious invasion of Iraq in 91. 300,000 boy scouts of the sunni clan trained in gorilla warfaire every sunni boy was in the fediee every one of them trained in gorilla warfare thats why i cried when Tony war criminal Blair lied to get us into the war. we destroyed all the bio and chemical shit in the first war and the sunni boy scouts must have been at the millions at the start of the second war, rule brittianya lol
Jackie Baillie welcomes Clare to Labour’s Shadow Cabinet:
https://archive.today/YBwcw
Just a thought but, is anyone keeping any tabs on how many convictions each side have for internet abuse? Off the top of my head:
No – 3 (assasinate Salmond, stalk Sturgeon, Orangeman yesterday fined 200 quid for sending anti-catholic stuff to a SNP activist)
Yes – 0
Any more?
I watched Scotland Tonight last night and thought Rev Stu never needed to get out of first gear to deal with the rather patronising Susan Dalgety. Dalgety, on the other hand was literally huffing and puffing in a series of attempts to look outraged.
Kudos to Rev Stu.
The No campaign and it`s media branches are in full smear mode now. There`s only so much people will take before it all becomes white noise. I passed that stage sometime around Spring last year.
The ‘C’ word?
Where, when and by whom?
Utter ‘C’laptrap.
As said by others before a unsubtle smear designed to turn women against YES
As Scots our healthy life style pie suppers fags booze probably makes us a bigger danger to our lifes than anything else, if you were a muslim the biggest threat to your life would be from another muslim, weird world.
NL & GP – you forgot the lashing of Brut guys …(chortles into hand)
After this trivial episode is behind us, might we can resume discussing important topics?
That the Scottish themed media chooses to be outraged by a bloody email that contains a factual error (not a threat, not a promise of violence, not a slanderous comment, not even a smear), is a sorry indictment of what pretends to be the barometer of our society.
Maybe I’m being harsh on our media & it’s our society that presents the comical theatrics that the media feels inevitably obliged to report?
Is that why, you can’t get someone to come to the door when they have glued their arse to the couch for the full HD experience that is the miserable chronicles of “Eastenders” or the Eliza Doolittle facsimile of “Britain’s Got Talent”?
Has the democratization of stupidity gone too far?
Campbell Gunn walks into a bar
barman says “What you having?”
Campbell says “A right bad week”
Tomorrows headlines today…one of these three:
(No) Gunn Fired
Gunn Goes Off
@fairiefromtheearth Makes your heart bleed.
This comment from a guardian reader says it all
This is the whirlwind which was sown by Bush, Blair and their Neo-con cronies in 2003, as the civil war in Afghanistan and Pakistan is the result of the failure of their invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. The whole PNAC strategy was doomed to failure from the beginning, and its principal outcome has been to strengthen enormously the hand of Islamists whose fanaticism is the mirror-image of that of the American supremacists.
One can only feel the most profound pity for the millions of innocent civilians whose fates are now in the hands of brutal forces unleashed as a result of our meddling.
I find it extraordinary that anyone from Labour would have the gall to complain in any way shape or form about an e-mail that was NOT abusive. I think it might be time to remind Labour, the MSM and the UKIP (spit) Channel, sorry BBC about this incident from 2010 which went, as far as I can tell, totally unreported. Newsnet reported it but then again as we all know only cybernats use the internet the REAL news comes from the MSM and the UKIP (spit) Channel, dammit, BBC. 😛
http://tinyurl.com/pgc4qdz
Thought for the day ….
A boiled egg is hard to beat.
@dramfineday.
Ahm an Old Spice man masel’
🙂
View from the USA, OK a Carnegie Institute Fellow and Scot
http://www.scottishglobalforum.net/opinion—speedie-view-from-america.html
Keep it up boys and girls.
It’s true. Clare Lally was repeatedly called the “C word” – Cabinet-member.
Feck, sorry http mortal death post transgression.
Forgive me My Lord Darth Vader
I think what they have tried to do here is contrast a reasonable-sounding woman (a member of the target demographic, and one that can evoke the theme of ‘women under attack’ that’s been set up with both Lally and Rowling) with a weirdy beardy internet conspiracy theorist.
Well done to Stuart for actually sounding pretty reasonable. It must be extremely nerve-wracking to be questioned live on TV, never mind keeping a coherent argument at the same time. Thanks to Susan Dalgety too, though I admit I found her repeated interjection of shocked and outraged noises while Stuart was speaking quite distracting.
It’s interesting that she kept making the point that people should be free to say whatever they want, implying that it was ‘cybernats’ that were trying to shut down the debate. I guess citizen journalism and using social media politically must be a different kind of free speech that we all deserve freedom from.
You came across clear and to the point Rev. But between the two of them, still managed to play up the nasty cybernat mock offence. And play down the tone that the likes of Lamont and Darling have set.
Mmm…If I google “Alan Barbour Wings Over Scotland”..The first page to come up is this article
@Bugger
shouldnt that be
Forgive me My Lord DarthEater Vader now
I note both she and McTernan when asked if the abuse comes from both sides categorically avoid answering the question.
That speaks volumes.
Ask any yes supporter and they will admit there are those on their own side who can be abusive.
Ask these no supporters and they squirm and avoid the question.
They are fundamentally dishonest people. Scotland take note.
Pleasantly surprised that they referred to Wings as a “website” rather than a “blog”.
Desimond
Fetch me some more Intergalactic Alpha Dendroid Nectar Juice.
——and be quick about it.
zap !
Anybody know if there’s a link where I can watch last nights Scotland 2014?
Stuart
I’ve met people like Dalgety. You can only laugh in scorn and walk away. There is no rationale for their hypocrisy, no intelligence behind what they say, other than they are briefed to make the most of a lie.
From what I’ve heard from others today – ‘ordinary’ members of the public – people are bemused as to her and Labour’s complaint, and rather bored with it too.
And by the way, you and I share the same brand of shirt! Politics and shirts; not bad.
gimme a shout if your gonna soon need a body double stu.
We need to hammer home at the next BBC demo that we are absolutely sick of misrepresentations in the wider media going unchallenged. I think the BBC are corrupt but not totally and they more than any other news outlet should have the talent and funds to not be so easily manipulated by exterior forces like political parties or ideologies. I think Scottish democracy is too important to let a few corrupt placemen in high places get away with manipulating the outcome of any vote. Please please could everyone who is able come to the next demo outside the BBC in Glasgow with your homemade placards expressing your feelings about this.
@col,
We Ginger Dug has some great graphics wot can be made into badges, tea shirts etc.
Thank goodness none of these people baying for blood would ever consider a career as an English rteacher. They would fail the basic level interpretation test.
If someone showed me a ginger moggie and told me it was a black cat I would tell them they were wrong and that in fact the cat is not black, it is ginger. So who would I be correcting (attacking) the cat or the person who got it wrong?
Having watched this stuff for a couple of days now it seems that this attack is definitely co-ordinated. All of the BT parties are flogging the personal abuse line (which it wasn’t) and they are all stressing the guidelines for personal advisers (which have not been contravened). The target audience is women obviously, which they see as the Yes campaigns weak point. It leads me to wonder if they know something that the rest of us don’t. Could it be that their private poling has uncovered a willingness among more women to vote Yes?
Iraq was not “our” meddling. How rich has war made Tony Blair or Bush and Dick Cheney?
It’s interesting watching all these banal panicky unionists with charisma by-passes to a man/women, all desperately trying to stop something incredible happening in Scotland.
Sorry, just looking at my new ipad wallpaper of the Scots butterfly. Will it be broken on the giant BetterTogetherBBC wheel of grot? Nae chance.
and also they are beginning to reference W.O.S more and more. You must be getting under their skin.
If i ever get onto one of these TV debates and Alistair Darling is in the panel I don’t think I could pass up the chance if chosen to direct a question at him and then just give a bunch of dolphin noises keeping a straight face all the way through.
@AyeAlba trust me mate you never missed anything on 2014 just the same old nonsense from a biased propaganda machine ,and anyway its to close to the fitba starting for you to have to buy a new telly after chucking it out the window in a fit of rage lol
Stu, If I was doing your PR, I’d make sure that on every occasion your name was used, the words ‘the brilliant’ should precede it. Yeh, I know, it’s not the kind of idea you would come up with, but that’s ‘cos you are much too grounded for that, but I was just saying like.
manandboy says:
12 June, 2014 at 3:06 pm
Dear Reader, in case you’ve missed it, and only when when you have the time :-
Part Two of Scottish Mainland Oil and Gas
BY BELLACALEDONIA on JUNE 12, 2014 • ( 0 )
PAPER – 2 SCOTTISH MAINLAND (ONSHORE) OIL AND GAS :
`A SONG STILL TO BE SUNG`.
By William Cameron McLaughlin BA(Hons), MBA
is now showing over on http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/12/scottish-mainland-oil-and-gas/
Who the hell is Alan Barbour then?
Funny, the first interaction I’ve had with Susan Dalgety was on Twitter yesterday, where she was shrieking about abusive Yessers having women issues because they use the word cunt a lot.
I wonder what kind of issues she has, considering she compared those in the SNP to the Omagh bombers!
farrochie ?@farrochie
So from love-in with big hitters, big beasts, big guns and bruisers, media now cries out “Rhona, save us from abuse”. #indyref
According to Scottish conservatives living on planet zog
Salmond in chaos over future of key adviser. No mention of Ruthie’s chaotic FMQ’s
http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2014/06/salmond-chaos-future-key-adviser/
@ John J
My wife refuses to get involved in the debate since I’ve probably hacked her off with my telly shouting routine every time the news is on.
She is an undecided, however I was truly gob smacked when listening to the lies on Scotland 2014 and upon hearing me moan that this is so much one sided unionist crap, that she quietly stated…”reasonable people aren’t stupid you know”
@ Rev Stu, I assume the Gillette sponsorship deal has gone tetsup then ? 🙂
Oh look, Wings on the BBC, website and twitter, ordinary mum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27814310
And instead of squirrels did I hear Anna Burnside, rather than expressing an indy ref opinion, confess to saying ‘oh look a kestrel’, as her way of changing the subject.
We have produce some bloody awful lagers over the years.
The Herald, The Scotsman, The Evening Telegraph and STV News web sites all have reports on the man who was fined for sending anti-catholic abuse to a Yes campaigner. The BBC News site hasn’t mentioned it.
Ms Dalgety is a step up from Alistair Darling in terms of staying on point. Well done rev Stu for keeping cool and very clear.
I am pressing for Johann Lamont to be given a central role in making Ed Miliband PM. i’ve designed a three stage strategy:
1. Request David Cameron resign as PM
2. Request the Conservative party sack David Cameron as PM
3. Make speeches demanding the David Cameron resign or be sacked.
It’s a complex political strategy but I think we can do it.
The Herald, The Scotsman, The Evening Telegraph and STV News web sites all have reports on the man who was fined for sending anti-catholic abuse to a Yes campaigner. The BBC News site hasn’t mentioned it.
Then again, they’re probably busy.
bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/
Scottish independence: Salmond faces calls to sack adviser Campbell Gunn (updated at 15:04)
Scottish independence: Who is Campbell Gunn? (updated at 15:18)
Scottish independence: Salmond faces new calls to sack Gunn (58 minutes ago)
Timeline: Where did the Campbell Gunn row start? (updated at 14:54)
manandboy
That’s an idea, it worked for Marvelous Marvin Hagler. He changed his name to Marvelous as commentators weren’t adding it when discussing/introducing him. What about, getting your name change to, Brilliant Rev Stu
Abuse is like a river – the first thing to work out is –
which way is it flowing?
Independence is what the Yes campaign is trying to achieve.
The No Campaign is trying to stop that.
The Yes Campaign is focussed on Independence.
The No Campaign is focussed on the Yes Campaign.
The Yes Campaign presents the case for Independence.
The No Campaign attacks the Yes Campaign’s case.
The No Campaign attacks those in the Yes Campaign.
The No Campaign uses lies,smears,threats and warnings.
The Yes Campaign has no choice but to defend it’s case.
The flow of abuse is from the No to the Yes
The No Campaign is destructive.
The Yes Campaign is constructive.
Let’s be absolutely clear.
Scotland has a fundamental right to self-determination.
The No Campaign seeks to deny that right by maliciously interfering with it.
Abuse – a Unionist speciality.
Congratulations Rev on an excellent TV appearance. You made the important points and stayed on topic despite constant attempts to derail. Rona was definitely agitated about the Alistair Darling “blood and soil” reference. Here’s the link for any who missed it. https://archive.today/Mr5Dq
Talking of orchestrated attacks, the interview speculates on which famous author might step in for the NO camp:
“A problem for the No campaign is that it is not firing the imagination of writers and artists, those who can dream a nation into being. I cannot think of a single significant Scottish writer or historian who would rhapsodise about the British Union as Schama does. Instead, journalistic commentators such as Joyce McMillan and Pat Kane, and literary writers such as the Booker prizewinner James Kelman, Irvine Welsh, Alasdair Gray, Kathleen Jamie, James Robertson (the author of And the Land Lay Still, a favourite novel of Salmond’s and something of a sacred text for nationalists), the historian Tom Devine and many others have, through essays, columns, novels, books, film scripts and poems, created a national culture that is defined against England (or more specifically against London) and perceived English hegemony.
I mention some of this to Darling and wonder at the absence of support for his campaign from literary and cultural Scotland. He says I am wrong. So, a little unfairly, I ask him if he can name a prominent Scottish writer or artist who supports the Union. There follows an awkward silence before he replies, cryptically: “There will be one,” as if he is expecting a declaration of support any time soon from someone notable – J K Rowling, perhaps?”
And abracadabra! As if by magic, JK Rowling appears! Incredible.
And on Scotland’s positive future…
I know one North Sea Oil executive reasonably well, well enough, that is, to be able to call him most times of the day, or go for a drink with him.
Mention the alleged dwindling reserves of oil and he always begins with a glass cracking guffaw.
“There’s masses of the stuff, there for decades to come and longer. We’re investing billions every month because we know where it is and how much. It’s delusional for anybody to claim North Sea oil has almost run dry.”
And he continues …
“One of the main reasons I am voting Yes is because I know the wealth we have yet to harvest.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27800696
Its the BetterTogetherBBC Muppet Show! Its time to annihilate Scottish democracy, its time to save the rich, its time to sell project fear…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvnHgKkNKR4
serious violence sao Paulo world cup
Oh my, someone used the C word to describe Labour ladies. She must have been really gutted at being labelled ….. a CONSERVATIVE 😉
JK Rowling abused by ‘Death Eaters’
“She said she is voting yes even though in the past she backed the Labour and labeled herself as not a fan of the coalition. The yes vote is the means of sticking it to David Cameron. For her, it was a form of patriotism that she will not understand.”
http://www.techsonia.com/jk-rowling-abused-by-death-eaters/1913742/
Credit to you Mr Campbell for your dignified composure and points well made on the STV program.
Rather a strange response from Susan Dalgety in that interview. On just about every aspect of the discussion.
Glad to see you staying on subject, being erudite and focussed and demonstrating to us all how to hold a political conversation against a very hostile opponent.
Don’t call me a conservative! I worked for two years in London which was great but occasionally this might happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwGZinTeodc
@bookie from hell
Sarah Smith is as neutral as a golf gti in 1st gear
Correct. Lets call a spade a spade. Her father was Leader of the British Labour Party, while her mother is presently sitting in the House of Lords. Gerry Hassan had this to say about her and Naughtie:
Both Naughtie and Smith have qualities. They also have deep Labour roots and backgrounds, and have not been immersed in the Scottish debate, having spent long periods living elsewhere. It is no secret and not a surprise that both have been known to express dismissive views of the SNP. Naughtie has done this several times since his arrival north, off air to BBC colleagues.
The bit where Susan Delgaty said “let me explain to you about how the media work in Scotland”. HAHAHA. Too funny.
BBC News – What does ‘Death Eaterish’ mean?
Harry Potter author JK Rowling has called some campaigners for Scottish independence “Death Eaterish”. What does she mean, asks Justin Parkinson.
“To use the D-word is pretty much as low as you can go in the Harry Potter fandom,” says expert John Granger. “It will really hit a nerve with JK Rowling’s fans. She is trying to get back at the people who say she’s not really Scottish and shouldn’t intervene in the debate.”
“Death Eaters are very unpleasant,” says Granger. “Their belief in bloodlines has, if not a racist, then at least a racialist idea behind it.”
“As much as I like and admire JK Rowling,” says John McRae, an English lecturer at Nottingham University, “as an insult it’s pretty alarming and referring to her own work does her no favours.”
https://archive.today/YkVSW
The New Statesman retracted the Darling interview? So that’s alright then? It sort of unhappened I suppose?
First @ Bugger(the Panda)
Thanks for that link. Interesting article, makes sense we can all acknowledge.
However, back to the tiresome little spat which set off the media.
As an ordinary member of the public. you can make your own opinion known. No harm in that, it is supposed to be a democracy. If say, Ms Lally as an ordinary member of the public, had said that the NHS was not safe if we voted Yes, we would still have said that she was misinformed and quite simply wrong. If someone in a political role says the same then it is more reprehensible since someone in the political establishment should really know better and is misleading the public.
It seems that we are not permitted to say that. So if Ms Lally says that black is actually white, we are not allowed to say so, because it is her opinion. Or she will go back to being an ordinary member of the public and beyond reproach for purveying something which is factually wrong.
One way to sort out folk like Susan Dalgety, call her out on her tactics at the start of any debate and ask the audience at the end if they had noticed in a joking but serious way.
Naughtie has done this several times since his arrival north,
Worst Naughtie BBC moment of his vote no camping, so far?
His no currency union triumph BBC in Scotland news blast and his endless crowing about the “widely respected” supersonic vote No OBR and IFS. He really believed he’d shut down Holyrood single handed.
What next from this deeply corrupt little character?
Mr Stuart. What a good, cool and precise collected presentation of the facts. I thought Rhona did well too. You held your line well, against the usual provocation from your adversary. We need to see and hear more of you on the tele/radio. If you get the time that is. Congratulations.
“let me explain to you about how the media work in Scotland”.
We tell them what to say, and they say it.
I was going to suggest a wee financial help for our own Lallands Peat Worrier who around midday today posted a plea to keep him supplied with pasta and sauce. A modest target on Indiegogo was obliterated in about 4hours.
Personally I love his quirkiness and just like our Rev Stu he has broadcast on BBC Radio Scotland. He would be grateful for a bottle of Chateaux Margaux 1971 to celebrate with
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keeping-the-peat-fires-burning
What i have been finding increasingly odd about the comments made in the New Statesman article and Alistair Darlings impression of Yes voters is that it seems almost as if the whole sorry episode was embargoed by Better Together or another similar group (Labour/Tories or another).
The New Statesman were happy to release the information initially, then backtracked after an intervention (Blair McD was instantly aware of the situation), NS made a poor excuse. When they tried to print the further text later again it was quickly changed and the audio was then released.
There is more to this interview than we are being told – either through pre interview conversation or other background as well as the reasons that this story has changed over time.
The BBC and STV seem to be unable to discuss further but I would hazard a well educated guess – along with some reading between the lines that just like some of the Westminster leaks there is more information that the MSN/press are aware of. Yet they are unable to report further……..to be continued.
@ Tam Jardine, Wings Nite Oot Edinburgh Newsroom 4th July
how far ur we fae the American Consulate ,an kin a set aff
some rockets in Celebration of Independance Day.
BTW, with or without rockets I’ll be there.
Stu does this mean ” you have arrived, on Wings!”
I have no doubt you will be a well kent face before this is over. You did very well, and with contained passion.
I am sure you will be requested again by the dark forces.
o/t
It would appear Graeme Pearson shadow justice minisyer is not flavour of the month. He has not been selected to stand as the candidate for the 2016 election.
A councillor of 2years standing has been chosen instead who just happens to be the son of Unites union’s political officer in Scotland
When local members recieved the candidates’ personal statements through the post Mr Pearson’s name did not appear. The corrected documents had to be re-issued before the vote last Sunday
@Adrian B, D notice in place perhaps.
Is it just me (probably) or is there something of the Orson Wells about the Rev in that image at the top of the article?
JK Rowling backs Alistair Darling’s holy war against Salmond.
“The author sides with former Labour Chancellor and pal, Alistair Darling, who runs the crusade“
http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/151991/JK-Rowling-Calls-Scottish-Nationalists-Death-Eaters-After-Donating-1-Million-To-Anti-Independence-Campaign
“Scottish themed media” thankyou Mr Graham. What an amazingly simple and fantastic way of describing the :’#*- ????
Alistair’s crusading skills are legendary.
Darling unveils welfare ‘crusade’
The government will not shirk the “difficult decisions” as it tries to bring about radical reform of the welfare system, says Social Security Secretary Alistair Darling
He has already clashed with Labour backbenchers who forced concessions for asylum seekers and rebelled over attempts to cut benefits for single parents and the disabled.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/397722.stm
Benefit plan defended by Darling – Charities attack Government crusade
The Herald, Tuesday 29 June 1999
ALISTAIR Darling, the Social Security Secretary, was yesterday again at the forefront of the Government’s crusade to root out abuse in the benefits system as he vigorously defended a decision to reform housing benefit.
Mencap said it was ”extremely concerned” that the proposed changes to housing benefit were targeting the most vulnerable in society. Calling on the Government to reconsider its proposals, Mencap spokesman Brian McGinnis said: ”Benefit cuts which deny people access to housing do not constitute reform but are a denial of basic human rights.”
See what I mean (courtesy of a weel kent newspaper image library)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/30/article-0-044B448A0000044D-707_306x423.jpg
Rev, theres a wee white arra on your chest in that screen
photo,ah hud typed screen shot then chinged it tae photo.
Take good care when out & about.
If JK Rowling was Alistair Darling’s response to the New Statesman challenge about the Scottish writers on the side of Yes, then I think all the intellectual heavyweights are on our side.
@ronnie anderson,
D notice in place perhaps.
Yes or something incredibly similar.
Really good article by Robin McAlpine
Would be good to print and send to all households
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/12/spin-and-smear/
Rowling using her own art to attack Scottish yes voters only works if you’ve managed to get past the first chapter of her awful writing. But great artists have often used their work for politics, like Rowling’s Harry Potter and the shameless plagiarist, Solzhenitsyn and Gulag Archipelago, Guernica and Picasso etc.
Not been a great day for the better together/thanks but no thanks team,bad poll in the Daily Record, followed by their tennis player gubbed in the 3rd round of Queens. Oh dear! tee hee!!
Labour now claiming on twitter that the Referendum is about
Scotland against Alex Salmond.
Scotland needs you.
Scottish Labour @scottishlabour · 1h
This referendum is Scotland vs. Alex Salmond, and Scotland needs you: http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/page/s/united-with-labour … #Indyref #LabourNo
No are in dire straits with this stuff
So did JKR call us Nazi’s
A self referencing Godwin?
The scamp!
Jim Thomson says:
Jim, that is just eerie!
mandboy
It certainly seems that way. The private polling must be desperate. However, let them do it. I can’t but help think that it will backfire badly.
An article by Stephen Noon of Yes Scotland;
http://stephennoon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/they-know-us-by-what-we-do-not-what.html
Get signing!
you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum?bucket=&source=twitter-share-button
Dalgety in the fine stairheid tradition of SLAB.
Apologies if anyone has already asked/answered this question, but is Ms Lally paid for any of her duties?
//you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum?
bucket=&source=twitter-share-button
@kendomacaroonbar
Watching last night for the fist time I was astonished at the obvious pro-union bias being shown by Smith but when it came to the interview with Tom Conti, the sight of two ‘London Scots’ smugly talking about a country neither have lived in for years (40 in the case of Conti) then that was enough. when Smith said (with her smirk) that “you don’t need a weather map to know that it’s raining in Auchtermuchty” then that was enough. I believe they are getting viewing figures of around 20,000; make that 19,999 from now on.
Rona Dougall is either a biased liar working for BT or she’s out of touch with debate and current events. She repeatedly covered up for Alister Darling, pretending he did not say that we were all blood and soil nationalists (a well known nazi term) at heart. New Statesman released the records showing that this happened. There is no denying this as fact. So is Rona a liar or unfit for her job? Isn’t it the job of her and her team to be informed on these events? It wouldn’t even require special effort in this case. She dismissed a very important example in this topic to bolster support and remove criticism for Labour.
I notice Rona also was seemingly happy to act as some sort of bizarrely naive person, taking everything Labour says or claims as absolute truth “Labour person x claims something/says they are something, so must be true” and using that as a counter argument repeatedly as if it was valid.
I don’t know why Susan Dalgety was being so aggressive with RevStu either. He was politely listening and giving her her time to speak and in turn she talked over him and was generally rude. The two have never even met before.
@ Nana Smith – Let me help you there
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum?bucket=&source=twitter-share-button
Clearly the BT campaign and unionist media have nothing positive to offer in this Independence debate, so the only thing they can do is drag the debate into the gutter so they can try to deflect their muck onto the Yes campaign. It is an absolutely disgraceful strategy that shows the unionist side for what they really are.
However, as long as the Scottish Government, the Yes campaign and supporters of Independence rise above the unionist sewer level, then it will only be a matter of months before we give Scotland the future that she deserves.
On the subject of Naughtie, Smith and some other ex-pat Scots. I do believe that there is a sort of inverted cringe about a few of them that would make them hate to see a successful independent Scotland. It would imply perhaps that their status of having ‘left Scotland behind’ was no longer valid and affirming.
@G Campbell
The BBC have mentioned it in the last hour hidden away in another article. Interestingly, the recipient of the abuse was David Kerr a former BBC employee and SNP candidate.
Jim Thomson – you need to replace the cigar, with say a finger of Twix, and it could indeed be an older version of oor Rev. 🙂
It really is quite staggering how clueless and petrified the unionist politicians and acolytes are about social media. For so long, they’ve had a free unchallenged rein over controlling their message through willing press outlets, and conducting campaigns through soundbites and TV studio fluff interviews.
But now, when their opponents stand up in large numbers on self-built platforms in a truly democratic fashion, expose their lies and hypocrisy, they get hysterical.
It reminds of the way they bundled out that old boy, Walter Wolfgang, out of the Labour party conference in 2005 for heckling. All that’s going on is electronic heckling – don’t think that’s illegal?
I’m sure if there was a way to get us kicked off Twitter, Facebook etc, their instinct would be probably to use it.
@Haggis,
Rona Doudall managed to run a pretty decent by all accounts interview with two people. I am sure that she wished to keep the conversation on topic and while I think her comments on Alistair Darlings New Statesman interview were incorrect the overall interview was of a reasonably high and acceptable standard.
Thanks …Archie [not Erchie]I didn’t want to put the https part in.
I think you will find that the Labour Party is also based in England, just like Wings .
Thanks @Nana for sharing that article by Robin McAlpine, it’s excellent. It also relates quite closely to what I wanted to say. I think that the JKR and Clare Lally items were totally orchestrated and what suprises me is how little real abuse they seem to have suffered.
I am not condoning online abuse in any way, one look at the BritNat Bot on Twitter details how vile much of this abuse is and a great deal of it is aimed, not at no supporters but at those who support yes. Anyone who spends any time online will see that for themselves. Despite the fact that the whole of the Scottish media will have been out scouting for it yesterday, there don’t seem to have been many examples shared. Where are these tweets that are too awful to be shared, even with certain words redacted?
There is horrendous behaviour on the internet. I know several intelligent and informed young women who are active in various forums online and have to hide their identities because of the rape threats and appalling misogenystic abuse that they recieve. Better Together (or whatever they have decided to call themselves now)are trying to cash in on this behaviour for the benefit of their woefully poor campaign. Anyone who has any experience of the Internet can easily see how manufactured their outrage is and I think that more and more people are becoming sickened by it.
People might give them the benefit of the doubt once,perhaps twice, but after that they will stop believing anything that they say. Perhaps, in fact, if the latest polls are correct, it has happened already
The No campaign have failed yet again. It wasn’t that long ago that Wings supporters were monstered as ‘cybernats’ doorstepped by the media, photographed and villified and all of them (apart from Stu of course) are ordinary people, one of those so-called cybernats is even the mother of a disabled child, where was the media outrage then? All of these people suffered far more than Miss Lally, or JKR who has her various secretaries and security guards to protect her. But what happened at the end of it all, was that the readership of Wings increased dramatically and has continued to do so ever since.
Stu held his own wonderfully yesterday, as did Iain McWhirter. They came across as reasonable and informed, unlike their opponents who quite simply ranted. So effective were they, that Stu, Patrick Harvie and Robin McAlpine seem to have been either edited or left out of the BBC programmes that they took part in altogether.
The BBC is beyond repair I believe as is the national press, and more people seem to realise that every day, it’s not just Indy supporters who have issues with the MSM. However, that means that people seek alternative places to seek information and, as we all know there are richly creative, informative and entertaining sites waiting for them.
Nice to see that the sectarian bigot and all round racist Cllr T Kelly is infesting the Herald comments and denying outright that the Weirs were ever abused by anybody. When will J Lamont take responsibility for the filth emanating from her members? See also A Gallagher BNP-Labour member for Largs.
@frankieboy
Ha ha, brilliant.
That would have been an amazing retort, but is worth remembering for the future.
@manandboy
#LabourNo
BEST HASHTAG EVER!
@ Nana Smith – Tiz ok. Its the YouTube links that you have to leave off the http// or https// indicator.
Nana I have just signed, husband did it a few weeks ago, thanks to all involved in supplying the link.
What I liked about Stu’s performance other than what he said was how he conducted himself.
He refrained from interrupting Dalgety and allowed her to speak.
This was a refreshing change from what we have come to expect in these debates, and will not have gone unnoticed by viewers.
Just thinking that yesterday was a wee bit like the classic game Worms(Armaggedon).
I can picture Big Blair getting aw excited shouting “Now throw the Sheep bomb…oh finish them with a Concrete Donkey” and jumping for joy when our wee men fall, only to be totally crestfallen when the screen then scrolls backwards and he sees loads more of our side laughing away armed to the teeth and prepared for hi-jinks!
Cue Tomorrows headlines
Cybernat calls online-posters Worms!
Thanks @Marcia for that Stephen Noon link. There is another good one from Ruth Wishart in the Guardian: archive.today/9lXu1
oops https://archive.today/9lXu1
If the Tram fiasco was anything to go by, this “directon of travel” is only headed up a dead-end
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27800696
Given the massive amount of air time given to this Clare Lally story and how she has been widely and ferociously attacked in the social media for just supporting Better Together, where is Alastair Darling? Johann Lamont seems to be the one raging at Salmond. Surely it should be AD? It would have been in past. Maybe his advisors need him to keep a low profile after his ‘blood and soil’ comments?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/uk-government-spend-720000-to-provide-every-household-with-booklet-on-facts.1402590417
Purely coincidence that these gruesome picture inducing stories appear side by side on BBC News listing
What does ‘Death Eaterish’ mean?
Man found eating Love rival’s heart
Just a wee thought, if any Winger ever manages to speak on air to Naughtie or Smith could they ask them “in the event of a NO vote would you move back to live in Scotland?”
O/T
I see Wee Ginger Dug has been busy with the crayons and come up with some excellent ‘No Thanks’ images which would make damn fine badges.
Great work WGD, with guys like you on our side I am really starting to look forward to our new country.
Thanks to guys like WGD i’ve decided to drop ‘_the_doubter’ from my name. I’m open to suggestions.
This lally thing just ponders on, backed by all the media.
I have no doubt this was an organised attack on the SNP and Cyber Scots at the same time.
Our Media is the pits, but we all know that,right!
Labour are a shambles and cannot forget the drubbing they got in the polls. Every Slab politician that is an interview is always similar in their poisonous talk.
I think the must go through the Slab school for nasty bastards, before they are let loose on the public.
@rab –
How about Agamemnon O’Flahherty?
I’ve been wrestling with my new laptop all afternoon and finally got round to watching this.
Go on yoursel Stu and what a daft old bag Dalgety is.
Is that abusive?
Ian,
Went to school with him, dont want him smeared as a cybervillain.
@Rab_the_Doubter
Howzabout Rabel Rouser or Rab_the_rouser ? 🙂
Want a laugh?
Stv 10.30pm, the awards for News reporters!!!
Must be a laugh, right!
Brilliant Rev. You always have more than ample reason to take the bait and bite, however, you stuck to the relevent details admirably. I defy any undecided voter watching that to think that Susan Dalgety was anything other than a ranting loony with no coherent argument.
More of the same please!
I’m sure that I had read in the past that JK Rowling was abused online by Harry Potter fans but a brief search via google didn’t find anything in the first page or two, and then I got a bit bored looking. However, I did find a page that states “IF ANY GOSPEL TRUTHS AND CHRISTIAN MORALS OFFEND YOU, THEN PLEASE LEAVE THIS SITE IMMEDIATELY.” on a site called God Hates Goths.
They have a page entitled “God Hates Harry Potter”. The first part of it provides more abuse for Ms Rowling in a few lines than anything I read from any pro-independence campaigner yesterday. Why wasn’t this headline news??
“JK Rowling abused by God-Fearing Christians” should have been on the front of every paper worldwide. Surely that’s a bigger story as there are many, many more of those god-fearing christians than there are cybernats. Surely?
http://www.godhatesgoths.com/godhatesharrypotter.html
Having read a wee bit of the site (while shaking my head at it), I think a job writing BetterTogether press releases may be in the offing for the author of the site, or at least Johann Lamont’s FMQ scripts.
Desdimond asked: What does ‘Death Eaterish’ mean?
It an unsavoury group of evil wizards from her children’s fantasy novels, a supremacist – hence Rowling insults as much as those she condemns of insulting.
Jim Sillars open letter
http://www.1001campaign.com/campaign-news/open-letter-called-cybernats/
Comments about London living Scots media careerists …
It takes a courageous person of high integrity to face up to his colleagues and associates who are his daily living and his social world.
Always a surprise to find one in London who claims they support greater democracy for Scotland and if that means autonomy so be it.
The closest I’ve heard such folk opine is, federalism is the answer, but they usually carry on to suggest regions of England be given the same status as if Scotland is a region too.
It’s a cop out doctrine, a false egalitarianism that spectacularly fails to address Scotland’s deficit.
Jim Sillars open letter
What a sadness to read something so far off the mark.
He’s the man who called the rest of us, ’90 minute patriots.’
Just to alert people of another new tactic, underwritten it seems by Newspapers, this was emailed to me.
https://uk-mg42.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sky&.rand=5oahk4j3i1otc#mail
You know who the information is intended for of course, and forms one of their next attack.
8pm livestream event.
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3084499
Iraq is spiraling out of control and the media and better together are still focusing on this nonsense.
The scottish public are beginning to notice and will hardly be very impressed. Our media is becoming even more of a laughing stock than usual.
Ref my last post, their unsubscribe link is disabled, thought they had to have that by law?
I watched that last night and felt sickened and ashamed at the fact that I used to vote Labour, never again.
Good job Stu.
Sillars Open Letter–Jim, do you know what a ‘false flag’ is? Can you prove, Jim, that any of this abuse you claim was made against JK Rowling or Clair Lally actually exists and that it actually came from YES supporters?
Think, Jim. Think.
Jim Sillars says MI5 are working in Scotland right now but I wish people like Sillars would just say where they are and what they’re doing. If an MI5 spook pretending to be a Yes voter is online abusing Rowling or Lally, they’re not doing it very much.
At the very least, MI5 will be doing what spooks always do, watching for any serious trouble, taking out trouble makers etc. Why would they waste their time doing much more with the whole of the uk media attacking Scottish democracy?
“Are you so naive, that you never think that perhaps MI5 and special branch are taking a role in this campaign? As their function is protection of the British State, they would not be doing their jobs if they were not.”
On STV news, Better Together are delivering their wee blue book to every household at the end of the month, the Secretary of State for anywhere but Scotland, Alistair Carmichael, posed at a post box and smiled, as he popped their book containing 24 reasons to vote no in it.
Seen the new poll results on Newsnet – looking good! Maybe the cause of more abuse to come!!!!!
Is the Jim Sellars thing for real? Who is he talking about?
In other news, Anas Sarah tweets that the referendum is “Scotland vs Alex Salmond”!
It’s like some parallel universe.
Sarah = Sarwar, obviously.
@Nana Smith, Thanks Nana/Erchie, for the link Just signed.
Someone should obviously ask Sarah Smith on scotland 2014 tonight if she considers being related to the late Labour leader John Smith as an insult.
The Open Letter by Jim Sillars should be widely read and its wise message taken to heart by all Yes supporters. I’m sure he wasn’t having a pop at anyone on this site. It was addrssed to all supporters with access to the internet, a few of whom have let themselves and our cause down by sending abusive comments to prominent No campaigners. Please, let’s leave the nasty stuff to our opponents.
You did well there Rev … could have cracked a smile at the end though 😀
After his onscreen battle, Iain Macwhirter brings this to the fore about McTernan and his wicked ways …
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-11/leaked-emails-reveal-aggressive-style-of-john-mcternan/5149158
Okay, who has seen the English (free) edition of The Sun today? Is it the same as the Scottish edition? The Sun published a free edition in England which is a celebration of all things English, nothing nationalistic about it honest guv’nor. Headline ‘This is our Engtland’ ‘free histoic edition for 22 million homes’ with montage of everyone from The Queen to Nigel Farage, Jessica Ennis to Harry Potter, about 100 faces on the front page. Then we have 24 pages of celebrating everything that is England including mock front pages of the Sun recording historical events such as 1066 through to Oliver Cromwell and both world wars (for English views only). It’s bright, cheery and celebrates all that is good about England (not nationalistic in any way though).
We have columnists Andrew Corden with a St George Cross painted face (not nationalist) and Tony Parsons who says ‘No one else on the planet comes close to our genius’ that’s the heading of his piece by the way (not nationalist in any sense). Plus there is a free flag giveaway promo (white with a red cross) in Tesco’s courtesy of The Sun, and of course it wouldn’t be an England-fest without our favourites Jeremy Clarkson and Katie Hopkins (lovable but not nationalistic though).
Was there a Scottish version today with a free flag you can get in Tescos?
Brilliant interview.
If that ‘book’ is being delivered by registered BT activists then it has got to be counted as part of their funding allowance. I resent having donatrd against my will to this propaganda.
At no point did Susan concede that Labour was at fault to misrepresent who Clare Lally is. I also find it highly disappointing that Clare herself is deliberately perpetuating this story that she was attacked by Gunn.
She, knowingly, misrepresented herself too. That, in my opinion, makes her untrustworthy.
First, Calmanballs, now Lallyballs.
Reminds me of this: Bill Hicks’ Jack Palance sketch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ6kMWA2WRk
Some people aren’t keen on facts.
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@rab_the_doubter
If one of those ‘books’ gets delivered to me it goes back unread with no stamp. We already know the lies which will be printed inside.
Jack McConnell must be rolling in his grave to see his Dalgety showing signs of dementia – “I’m here to represent the 4 million people in Scotland……” She didn’t have a clue and you concise and to the point answers; showed up as the bumbling fool she was.
Well done.
Pentland Firth said: a few of whom have let themselves and our cause down by sending abusive comments to prominent No campaigners.
Without realising it, but in good old fashioned headmaster style, Sillars is doing the work of the power elite.
Black propaganda is getting to him. He presumes there exists a mass of nasty cybernats all Yes supporters – and no other used the moment to muddy the waters. He also gives Rowling the elevation the media want though her contradictory opinion does not deserve. She is above the rest of us and any critique.
As for Rowling implying Scotland has a clique of ‘evil supremacists,’ what can we say?
Well spoken and good poker face too Stu, it is what it is.. gave it to them straight.
Wings Over Scotland may well be on for over 5,000,000 pageviews by the end of this month after yesterdays television appearance, and that’s a lorra people!
Most importantly, welcome to all the new readers who have visited here after watching last nights TV show. Take a look around folks.. there’s a massive archive of thought provoking articles/comments, lots of interesting links and an ‘Off-Topic’ page where we discuss other topical issues and play music videos.
The chat and patter on here is excellent too! If you’re interested, a crowd of us are having a night out in Edinburgh next month.. details on Off-Topic page.. see if you can find it?
X 🙂 X
Letters: Why an Englishman will vote Yes
These letters appear in the Friday 13th issue of The Independent
JK Rowling (12 June) offers a reasoned case for supporting Better Together in the Scottish referendum. The reasons for voting Yes are far stronger.
There are “cybernasties” on both sides but the really vitriolic attacks on the political leaders of the referendum debate sadly have come from the Better Together campaign leaders against the Yes campaign, something the mainstream media appears to have neglected.
Going it alone, which is not about narrow nationalism, is not the worry, but the risks of staying in an unhealthy, unjust, avaricious, anti-immigrant, anti-Europe and bellicose UK are an enormous worry. As indeed are the cuts in the UK science budget which Scotland can avoid in the future.
JK Rowling writes about the 14 professors in Scotland who expressed concerns about threats to Scottish medical research if Scotland becomes independent. It is only fair to mention that over 100 academics in Scotland also wrote a letter recently that fully supported independence.
I should add that I am English but live and work in Scotland. I am not a member of any political party but I am involved in public health research. I will be voting Yes in the referendum.
Professor Andrew Watterson
Kippen, Stirlingshire
Is anyone like me really annoyed at STV’s style of reporting at 6.00 pm? Sometimes the lady Political Reporter gives a reasonable version of events but invariaby Ponsonby is then invited to give his tuppence worth, all anti- SNP and give his verdict without any chance for anyone to challenge him.
Get a grip STV. Just as I gave up the Scotsman, went to the Herald and gave that up, I gave up the BBC news and switched to STV, I won’t be viewing your biased attitude for much longer however,
Ponsonby is an arrogant (fill in swearie word of choice), and should be reeled in by someone in charge.
Read Jim Sillars open letter telling us all off for commenting on Clare Lally and JK Rowling and citing that as the reason the meetings for Yes all across Scotland last night were not headline news in the Herald and Scotsman etc. I think he needs to get a grip in most cases the only place we ever read of these meetings, successful though they are, is on social media sites. However by having a go at the “cybernats” he has at least guaranteed himself a few newspaper column inches.
Professor Andrew Watterson – I will be voting yes in the referendum.
Thank you, sir.
You join an illustrious group of academics and medical men who respond to truth and know the meaning of hope.
For a long time I’ve worried what BT would come up with at the last minute. I don’t for one minute agree with their stance, but I find it difficult to believe that they are as stupid as they would appear at times.
Westminster are well known for “It’s a good day to bury bad news.” Outwardly they are seen to be canvassing amongst other governments, and appear to be making a mess of things.
But this is the establishment that controls possibly the world’s best intelligence service. They are not sitting back and doing nothing. They are not just letting YES win.
I had expected that NO would be seen to be trying harder, and I admit to convincing myself that they were just being typical Tories and thinking they could carry on like this and win anyway.
But I’ve just had a serious rethink. I was a little perturbed by yesterday’s events – the speed with which it grew.
After a few attempts at “infiltrating” Better Together FB and Vote No Borders FB it has become obvious that there is a cohort of posters who spend their time spouting forth the NO lies, and deleting posts with a positive slant. They are just small fry. If they have been tasked with causing havoc there, I’m sure others have been tasked to more antagonistic tasks.
Then I read Jim Sillars’ open letter.
http://www.1001campaign.com/campaign-news/open-letter-called-cybernats/
I have to ask…
Rev Stu, are you the Real Radio Renegade?
Some of what Sillars says I agree with, but it’s not the Politicians movement anymore! It belongs to the people of Scotland and we wouldnt be where we are now, without the “CYBERNATS”! So I’m afraid a telling off from you will not go down well! We SHOULD all try and not use swear words or be offensive, but this isn’t a game! This is for the rest of our lives.
I sometimes wonder what side Sillars is on as he plays right into their hands sometimes.No wonder the SNP got shot of him.He has all the subtlety of an elephant with a dose of the trots.Anyway message for Stu.Just because someone makes you look bad doesn’t mean you are bad .This is just what the Brits do.They tried it with Ghaindi look who’s laughing now!They could probably portray Mother Teresa as a monster and the press would report it.We ain’t going to win this one as the msm are part of the no campaign as they are part of the establishment.We just have to accept its not a clean fight as they have the referee in their back pocket.What does a team do when the referee is cheating ? Answer either get frustrated and give up or get angry and play them off the park.
Well done Stuart. The Truth and nothing but the Truth.
It was so refreshing how you presented the Truth not spin from the slabber. They do not have a leg to stand on. Regular viewers are only used to spin – they will respond to this. Truth is the future.
It will help even more and more get unplugged from the Matrix.
Flower of Scotland said: it’s not the Politician’s movement anymore! It belongs to the people of Scotland!
A fine phrase. Very fine indeed.
O/T SNP to rewrite history.. beggars belief.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146719/Anger-SNP-rewrite-history-New-school-curriculum-downplays-role-British-Empire.html
Oh my God… what is that on Rev’s FACE??! ARRGHHH, MY EYES!!
Heh heh, sorry Stu – had to be done, haven’t seen you for a few years and the facial hair was a surprise 🙂 In fairness, that is a proper man’s beard, unlike the crappy ginger tuft on my own chin that I optimistically referred to as a goatee until a woman with good sense made me shave it off.
If I may go on to make a few serious points:
1. Well done, Rev – sterling performance. I think there will be more than a few DK’s whom, having watched that, will now have a seed of doubt about what the Better Together campaign are telling them. Those DK’s will rapidly become Yes once they realise the MSM is feeding them horse manure.
1.5 I think you may be getting more calls for interviews . Get used to it.
2. If I may give constructive pointers on technique; don’t forget to say Hello/Good morning/Good evening , smile and nod when they say thank you at the end – and it wouldn’t kill you to smile in general a bit more 🙂
3. I read the comments thus far on the way home on the train. Whilst it is natural for us to cheer for our team, I have to say I found the comments about Susan Dalgetty’s performance overly and disappointingly negative. Sure, it was a train-wreck, but – aside from her snide, bordering on racist construct telling Rev about “the Scottish media” – she came across as more “real” than the political flunkies they usually ship in for these double headers. And I think this goes to a wider point which Rev made on Twitter last night:
We now know that EVERYBODY who is anybody in the No campaign reads this site, including the comments. Remember that before you hit the Submit button; even if you’re angry about something. Just step outside yourself for a moment and think about how somebody coming to the site cold may interpret comments littered with ad hominem (I’m giving myself this advice too, and will be revising my habits). If you can’t get your point across without resorting to name-calling, then you’ll lose the argument in the eyes of an outsider.
Remember how phenomenally self-disciplined the SNP have been over the past decade. That’s what got them into government, and it’s what will win the referendum. We have to rise above the other side – and, let’s face it, that shouldn’t be too much of a challenge 😀
4. Rona did a fair job. That was definitely one of the more balanced pieces that I’ve seen – naturally, helped greatly by the Rev’s knockout delivery, but also Rona keeping it on track and trying to be even handed.
5. Is it just me, or does everyone else have the feeling a break-though is imminent? We’re winning the arguments and gradually knocking down every sacred wall the political elite have built to protect themselves over the decades. Light is starting to shine through, and I think folk are noticing.
Sorry to be so shallow, but I found it incredibly difficult to listen to Susan Dalgety because of her constant snorting. It really distracted from whatever she was trying to say.
@rab _the_doupter, after Sats event Rab-the-Drooket sounds
apt,we can have a renameing ceremony at the next nite oot lol.
Roger Coder said: sorry Stu – the facial hair was a surprise
Rasputin’s younger brother.
I remember Dalgety from a few years back as an Edinburgh Evening News restaurant critique and wow did she like to put the boot into quite a number of eateries all the while feasting at the free nosh. Now there really is something for nothing. She really did appear to have a snotty nosed sense of entitlement. She was a bit of a plain Jane back then too.
Roll on to last night and STVs Scotland Tonight and Rev this household was cheering your knockout blows to Dalgety. It was really face palming stuff from her. What a truly awful performance she gave. I was geniunely aghast at how erratic and incompetent she was as she hyper ventilated throughout her appearance. Highlight was you Rev nailing Darling to the pleas of not true from Dalgety and MacDougal and the presentation of the facts of Clare Lallys involvement with the Labour Party.
If that was a boxing contest, Dalgety was on the ropes and then you Stu, delivered the knockout. Way to go. Keep telling the truth people, it really does appear that the Unionists have lost all sense of reality.
A bit late to the comments here, but I have not heard anything from labour in support of carers. And the woman here with the disabled child has a husband to support her. Also I doubt she has a 24/7 caring role, she will have financial and all sorts of support in place. She should and most likely is receiving some kind of respite as well. The “extra ordinary” mothers are the ones with little or no support from a partner, who cannot work due to their caring role, and who struggle to access any kind of support like respite etc.
The single parent carers out there really do struggle and often have to forego a quality of life that no one else would tolerate, especially when financial constraints come into it, which is very very common, sadly. I volunteer to support carers and I see the lives they often have and the stress that they are under, with westminster welfare cuts, their lives are about to get a whole lot harder.
The Third sector in Scotland are by and large now supporting Independence, how can they not when they see what westminster are doing to the disabled and to carers who often just cannot work. Anyone thinking it will get better with a no vote is living in cloud cuckoo land.
@ Rab_the _doupter, ah dont use a nom de plum, or I would be
Wrungoot Ronnie lol.
So…who is Alan Barbour, and is Susan Dalgety going to resign for mixing your name up with his?
Re: Jim Sillars open letter
Lay off Jim. Yes, it looks like he got taken in by the false flag crap – but he doesn’t spend his life on Twitter/Facebook because he’s out every night speaking at public meetings. Take it instead as a useful warning about the dangers of descending to the No camp’s level.
He’s not wearing a tin foil hat either; he is perfectly correct about the UK’s security services. Anybody who disbelieves that should read up on the miner’s strike.
I disagree with Jim on a number of things – I cringe every time he talks about the 2nd aircraft carrier as a hospital ship – but he is working his arse off to connect with Old Labour to make them see that they only future Scotland has is with a Yes vote. Alec can’t do that, and charming as he is, neither can Patrick Harvie.
Oh my goodness I almost wet myself!!
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/12/independence-scots-bbc-economics-gordon-brown
Rogue coder,
Totally agree with your comments abour what people post online etc..
Regarding the open letter from Jim Sillars http://www.1001campaign.com/campaign-news/open-letter-called-cybernats/
I would simply add, that whilst in his opening lines he seems to reinforce the unionist myths that abuse only comes from the YES side (which is wholly untrue), I have to say to Jim, WELL SAID. Every part of that letter made the clear point, that online abuse achieves nothing for anybody, aside for ‘better together’. He also demonstrates HOW to react to unionist nonsense stories.
Better together do not want to debate independence (as their is no positive case for the union). they just want to smear the YES campaign.
DO NOT LET AGENTS PROVOCATEURS ONLINE ENCOURAGE YOU TO JOIN IN with negative comments. And especially, watch out for those who post and tweet, who seem to be on our side (and even seem like friends), but who also keep cheering on abusive comments. Make no mistake, the british Establishment is seriously feart, and will do anything to stop independence.
Fight the negativity by doing something constructive (I know many do already) to help spread the independence message – it is very therapeutic (and it gets you away from the keyboard).
http://www.yesscotland.net/join-in
For the record I have not seen Clare Lally state that the email was a personal attack. What she has said is that the email provoked a series of attacks/abuse abuse online from various sources an she blames Gunn for that.
However, this storm in a teacup is UKOK ambrosia to deflect from the No campaigns total lack of anything positive on offer. Plus it ties in well with the whole CyberNat/Misogynist thing. ==> Time to get some female ‘Cybernats’ onto the Camera, perhaps?
Lastly, it was very striking that while this irrelevant story was making Scottish headlines the real story of yet another new 100M barrel oil field that is about to start ramping up takes second fiddle.
Therefore, my question to Clare would be: How much of this oil revenue is going to go to Scottish childcare after Westminster has removed it from the Scottish Economy? (Or is that an attack?)
Jim’s Letter – Hope Steven Seagull diznae read it!
The most remarkable thing here was not all the Clare Lally nonsense (which is here today gone tomorrow, BT manufactured flim flam). No, the most remarkable thing here was that Susan Dalgety HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA who Stuart Campbell is.
@Stu – Next time you’re on ditch the black shirt, the Mrs said it makes you look sinister!
Mibbee a wee salmon pink number or a pastel blue 😀
It’s a bit soon for the no Dr Who / Eastenders / Opportunity Knocks story again isn’t it?
(Nana Smith 8:16)
Rab the +ve
Brilliant Stu.
Clear, concise, stayed on the necessary point despite RM trying to steer the subject on to the phantom cybernat, and the last ball was a home run.
SD behaved like some Tory BritNat but she’s probably a Labourite BritNat – same difference.
@Paula Rose
Well I guess when the no lot have nothing left all they can do is play ‘Scrape the barrel’
Wow I might be on to something here, I wonder if Spears or Waddingtons would be interested
Hapless Gordon says we won’t get BBC television and pensions are in jeopardy – clearly a Fear Campaign tactic aimed at oor OAPs – all Scotland’s elderly are doomed.
Deja vu, or what?
@ Nana Smith
They could call it ‘Better Together, No Thanks’.
that beard is 2nd only to Pirlo.
Grouse Beater says:
<i.Hapless Gordon says we won’t get BBC television and pensions are in jeopardy – clearly a Fear Campaign tactic aimed at oor OAPs – all Scotland’s elderly are doomed.
Deja vu, or what?
I have a wee suggestion for wee Gordie here. Perhaps if he did NOT spend so much time travelling overseas talking to whoever about how he saved the world, and instead spent MORE time doing his REAL job, a.k.a. M.P. for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, then perhaps he’d realise that his latest *ahem* outburst about independence had alr:)eady been shot down in flames in more than one occasion!
With his latest *ahem* outburst Brown has shown himself to be just as out of touch with the land of the living now as he has always been! 😛
@Derek M 3.27
LOL. Only wanted to watch it cos I thought the Rev was on and was watching him on Scotland Tonight at the same time. Maybe he’ll be kind enough to put a clip on here?
I’m no a footie fan but I might be tempted to chuck said tv out the window with all the footie on over the next few weeks.
Boys and Girls
I have said this several time, Jakey Rolling loaned milliopns of her fortune, overnight, to speculate against the £ Stg.
She shorted the £ a decade ago, along with George Soros, and made a small fortune from it.
I am 100% of that but when I sought to get a link, SFA?
Her near neighbour in Edinburgh is, Alistair Darling, at that time a Treasury minister (?) with whom she has been seen escorted, at at least to one pro No event.
So, why does her dalliance on the currency speculation market against the £, been disappeared?
Can the past be rewritten on the Web?
Susan is just playing hard to get: getting Stu’s name wrong…thats not how we do it in Scotland… ignoring your emails. Classic.
Look at the still picture on the you tube link above. Don’t be fooled – they just swapped the left end right sides so it looks like they are ‘virtually’ leaning away from each other. In reality they they were leaning in towards each other with some real chemistry going on so STV chose to swap sides to make it look that much more confrontational. 😉
When do we get the uncut version? 🙂
@RogueCoder
Cheers for that if we all agreed with everything it would make a sad society and Jim should be applauded for total commitment to Scotland first we can disagree afterwards.
The list is far to long but the folk going to public meetings are the ones who will win this for us all no matter left, right or upside down people are engaging in various localities in spreading the positives and should be given all the support we can give. The MSM are losing and they know it behind the scenes.
@Big Jock
What does a team do when the referee is cheating ? Answer either get frustrated and give up or get angry and play them off the park.
What about taking a sly kick at the opposition when the referee is not watching? 😀 😀
It speaks volumes for the effectiveness of WoS reporting and it’s political analyses that the unionists are using this incident to attack and besmirch the blog.
Did I hear Brian Taylor report on the evening news that Jim Sillars had said the secret service were planting their people on comments pages ‘like they did the last time’? It certainly seems like that is the case in the Telegraph’s Scotland articles.
@Paula Rose
I like it.
Also Broon’s Doom has a nice ring to it, could make a new genre of horror games. Landing on spaces labelled Gord’s gold, Blood and soil mansion, mumblegate hall etc
Been offski all day and haven’t caught up but I’ve been thinking why there’s been no high profile arrests made to date for all this cybernattery? Plenty of stories about cave-dwellers being arrested as ghoul-wanks or sectarian bampots, but none about an actual cybernat.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
This Glenn Greenwald piece makes specific mention of a lack of arrests as an indicator of online jigger-pokery. I think we should press the MSM on this, in light of Snowden’s wee gift etc.
It’s true! I just found the link to the Sillars letter.
As a fully paid up member of “Protect the Television” group think now might be a good time to give all folks a heads up about tonight’s UKIP (spit) Channel, sorry BBC high browed intellectual discussion programme “Question Time.”
On tonight’s panel of intelligencia, in no particular order of preference/hatred are:
Ian Duncan Smith (Spit, spit, spit, spit!)
Chris Bryant (DUH)
Tessa Munt (who???)
Salma Yaqoob
Ian Hislop
For the sanity of households all over Scotland please, please PLEASE, if you intend watching this s***e tonight ensure EVERYTHING that can be thrown at a T.V. is safely locked away and out of sight.
We supporters of S.T.T.V. (that’s Save The Television by the way) thank you. 😛
Jim Sillars is an old campaigner and deserves respect for his opinions.
Follow his advice and don’t give any ammunition to the No people by using abusive or obscene language, which will only be fired back at us.
I was at Nicola’s meting in Edinburgh last night. She was great, spoke for nearly two hours, answered all questions and got a great reception after spelling out the future of Scotland in the event of a Yes or No result and at no time did she discuss the No people with anything other than understanding and sympathy for their misguided ideas.
That is how to win hearts and minds. Honey catches more flies than vinegar.
I see brave Dave’s going to send us all a wee booklet, rather than just coming up for a wee public chat with the FM. Maybe have to say No Thanks and freepost it off somewhere.
What was that address again?
I,ll say it right now-Dalgety is vile and,into the bargain,an arse of quite cataclysmic proportions.
I think Sillars is making folks aware that there is a lot more of this stuff still to come, it will get worse, so lets not help them.
They have thrown huge amount of stuff at YES, and still the polls narrow. In their BritNat world, this was never meant to happen. I think the CU stance is going to be a disaster for them as the markets are not going to put up with uncertainty for much longer as the vote nears and the gap closes.
There is panic in their ranks and we need to keep our cool.
How lamentable Lamont can stand there and say that something should be done about it..after what her man Darling said about the SNP and indy voters is beyond me..a two faced hypocrite if ever there was one..oh am feckin fumin efter watchin that..am awa for a half…xxx
seanair @ 7.30
Forget about “news” papers, and all bbc stv c4 c5 so called news programmes on tv. It’s all utter drivel designed purely to make you think the way you’re “supposed” to think.
RT News (Freeview Channel 85) is the only TV news outlet that’s worth watching, though they’re not as yet doing much indyref stuff.
The Jim Sillars open letter has some valid points.
It IS counter-productive for a small minority to insult and curse our opponents, despite the abuse coming from them.
Fighting the argument, not the person makes more sense, and the JK Rowling statement for example is full of contradictions.
But the wider point must be the traditional media setting the agenda here.
TV news just seems to follow up on newspaper stories of the day, which for the next 3 months will be a bunch of anti-independence allegations, falsehoods and fake outrages.
Any abuse by unionist politicians will get the brush off, while anonymous nationalist tweets, fake or otherwise, are condemned.
Good polls get buried and vice versa.
Any celebrity statement in support of BT or the union is front page news.
If the referendum is lost this time, there may be no point trying again until we have some pro-Scottish print media on side.
I suppose the whole point is to attack the internet at large as a sources of news.
After all, opposing views can be heard there..
I just hope enough people are aware of the tactic.
I’ll take issue with Jim Sillers letter, do You have proof
positive of abuse Jim put it up,or are you dependant on a
Hack to keep you informed,take your own advice, there are
agents provocateurs out there in online forums,keep that in
mind.
Right I was going to go and watch the Brazil match. Looking at the *ahem* panel think I would have lasted around ten minutes. 😛
I have been saved from the inane Mr Chiles however, Brian Johnson, AC/DC front man is on Quest drooling over the Porshe 911. 😛
It get’s better Mock the Week returns tonight on BBC2 at 10 p.m. Finally something worth watching, two programmes back to back to boot. 😉
Jims letter is interesting for a few reasons(lets ignore some of his assumptions)
I think we should all take his advice, not because the smear merchants are correct or that we should KowTow to them, but simply because it is the most effective route to independence.
I think back to what Alex Salmond said a couple of years ago,I forget exactly what it was but it was along the lines of this:
In a campaign, if both sides are running a negative campaign then the most negative will win, if one side is negative and one side is positive then the most steadfastly persistent will win.
I feel that we must be relentlessly positive for the next 97 days, hope over fear. It is certainly not easy to hold ones tongue from the illegal immoral dishonoured British state and all those who willingly spout their lies.
We all know that simply disagreeing with these people is not abuse by any standard. and in a normal civilized society we would be judged to have done nothing wrong.
But we live in the world that is closer to Orwells 1984.
Their whole strategy is to lower the tone.We cant let them,
Lets reconnect with the passion and sense of endeavour for building not only a better Scotland but a better world, and on the 19th, we will leave them to roll in their muck while we ride a rainbow.
This is just my thoughts, and if anybody feels like giving out strongly worded criticisms on twitter or wherever then they are perfectly entitled to do so and i would not criticise them for it.
@Flower of Scotland
Without social media the referendum would probably be a foregone conclusion, as MSM feed us the anti point of view.
I always understood why the referendum date was set so long in advance, and closer to the end of this parliament. It takes a long time to pass the truth down one by one.
I also understand why negotiations didn’t take place first (as many have said should have happened) We’d still have been here in 2020 trying to come to some sort of agreement.
The YES movement is growing and won’t be stopped. The vast majority are campaigning in a very reasonable manner. Unfortunately there is also a large group who will find someone to fight with anywhere. Some of those will be “planted”. Others will just be “idiots” who think they are being clever. But MSM will pick up on them whether planted or otherwise. They won’t pick up on NO nastiness, and some of them will be planted too.
Tomorrow I’d love to visit my local bookie to see what odds they’d give me on Clare Lally for MSP. Her profile has just been given an enormous boost and she is now headed for a career in politics. You can’t buy that level of publicity.
We have to be extra careful in our use of language. We are being monitored and the least little slip up will be caught. We know what the media backlash will be, and it would make a great “It’s a good day to hide bad news”
Well done Stuart, someone has to stand up for the truth against Labour’s spin machine and their attempts to marry political correctness to their usual victim mentality
Thankyou
Well played Stu. You got the ball, shimmied past a couple of midfielders, did a nice wee one two through the defence and slotted the ball home with confidence!
I’m not too happy with Jim Sillars open letter either. Of course i agree that to openly abuse anyone online is more than stupid. I unlike Jim want to see the proof of this abuse.
He talks like it is an absolute fact that a minority of Yes supporters are vile abusers. Until I see absolute proof I treat this with scepticism. The online abuse of Yes, Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon can be shown straight away as it is everywhere on facebook and twitter.
Jim Sillars, show me the evidence for the avalanche of online abuse allegedly received by JKR and Ms Lally.
Jimmybeardy
I agree with you sentiments. I also agree with Jim that we will have to watch out for agent provocateurs.
The ‘Establishment’ have a history of this over the decades. I was shown papers from the Special Branch file held at the National Archives in London about the Scottish Home Rule movement in the 1950’s that a friend copied. Police informants were rife in the 1950’s as the Establishment were very concerned then. Although some of the papers describing the arrest of Wendy Wood at Trafalgar Square were a hoot.
wonder if the number of people who watch this clip on here outnumbers the official viewing figures from last night?
Can I just say well done to the man with the beard (Stu)
@ Rab_the_doubter.
Rab the renewed?
@ Onwards
You won’t get any argument from me or anyone else on this site about media bias – but this is the hand we’re dealt with. Complaining about it doesn’t change anything. The press have always had their agenda, and always will. Take a leaf out of Alec’s book and use it to our advantage when we can, and let the other shite slide off us like water off a duck’s back.
I’m relatively new to Twitter, but one of my most successful tweets was to take a screen grab of a national newspaper and contrast the headlines of the English vs Scottish editions (this was on the pensions scare stories a few months back). That tweet went viral and I swear half the Yes activists saw it as well as plenty undecideds.
My point is that if you know what the opposition – or the press – are going to do, then you tailor your vector accordingly. Sun Tzu; Know your Enemy.
This is the best campaign, and the best crack we’ve ever had, at independence. We have every argument on our side, and we’ve got some of the strongest, most charismatic and switched on politicians that the British Isles as a whole have ever produced. This is our time. If not now, when? We’ve got to make this one count.
I also think the timing works for us. The MSM and the politicians still haven’t quite woken up to the true power of the Internet. That will change as time goes on, but right now we can use it to our advantage to systematically pull apart the misleading soundbites still paraded for print and television media. JFK understood the power of “new media”, and his performance in televised debates with Nixon is what won a relatively inexperienced but progressive politician the White House. Obama did the same with Twitter and Facebook.
@Rab_the_doubter
I’d stick with Rab_the_doubter cos that’s who you are. After the referendum you can be Rab_the_reborn.
You’ll like this. Obama’s recent wee dabble in the UKs constitutional stooshie? The mists clear.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/12/uk-us-mutual-defence-agreement-exclusive
@Thepnr This article features some of the vile tweets that were aimed at JKR: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/scottish-nationalists-who-reacted-really-badly-to-jk-rowl
I still think this was provoked and stage managed by BT for a number of reasons, but Jim is right about them being out there and we do need to avoid playing into the hands of the no camp and providng ammunition.
Whether they are real indy supporters I have no idea.
Warning, these tweets contain foul language
Ronnie, I’ve seen abuse on both sides.
It is a small minority, and the worst of it is usually on facebook.. usually against Salmond.. particularly from a few BNP / Loyalist types.
But the fact is, because of the biased media, it is ONLY any pro-independence abuse that is getting highlighted.
These pages will be scanned constantly and even if it is only one frustrated post in thousands, it adds up, and will no doubt be combined into some Daily Mail rant, to try and make the vast majority of normal people look like nutters.
Just the way it is, and we have to be aware of it.
@Cindie
Thanks for that, never knew there were as many as at least 18 total idiots on the Yes side.
As my first sentence above stated, abusing anyone online is totally stupid. Despite Jim’s plea this will not stop as no doubt there will be people (others) simply stirring it.
There are nutters supporting the No side too who are even more numerous unfortunately their “input” is generally ignored by the media.
Ms Rowling and Ms Lally are smoke and mirrors. They are small beans issues in the scope of this debate. The real story recently was Obama’s truly odd intervention. I’d advise checking the link I’ve just posted. They’re pulling a don’t look over here, look over there job with all this.
Does an idiot tweeting x is a c*** to his or her handful of followers count as abuse on any real scale?
@Macart
When Obama made his intervention I said to my husband what dirty promise was behind it…now we know.
Are the Scottish Labour press office and BBC Scotland the same thing?
@Nana Smith
All the other nonsense of the past two days…
… THIS is the howler they would hope might slip by unnoticed.
@Macart – The UK and US are setting a dreadful example to the rest of the world by renewing the MDA, and are seriously undermining the credibility of international efforts to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons
And guess where the warheads heading?
We seriously need to put a fly in their imperialist ointment by winning the referendum
@Thepnr re the abuse on twitter and facebook. I’m very new to all this and as somebody on one of the threads mentioned Britnat abuse Bot I thought I’d take a look. My goodness, I didn’t realise how awful some of the stuff is. The biggest shock for me was a twitter, by the UKIP leader, about the First Minister. Can it be right that people like that, in a position like his, can get away with this?
@Theopnr I completely agree. The article was linked in this excellent piece by Miriam Brett: http://scotspolitics.com/independence/get-your-misogyny-out-of-the-indyref
Miriam is a member of Generation Yes and spoke eloquently and movingly about her vision for Independence as part of the Aye Talks initiative. One of the many reasons that I am voting Yes is because of young people like Miriam, I want our country to be somewhere where they can blossom and thrive. In my opinion most of the Yes sites, apart from the darker parts of Facebook and Twitter debate has been very balanced and (despite the fact that Stu seems to be accused of it regularly) remarkably free of misogyny and vile comments like these.
Good for Miriam for calling people out on it though.
The link for Aye Talks is here: http://ayetalks.net/aye-talkers/ I haven’t heard them all yet, but those I have heard are excellent
Just back from the Shawlands Academy meeting. Great stuff from Colin Fox. Took the opportunity to comment that those on the panel with access to the MSM had a duty to actively comment and challenge the MSM bias.
@Macart – If Iran and North Korea had signed a similar agreement for the transfer of nuclear weapons technology, the UK and US would be branding them pariah nations and screaming for the toughest of international sanctions to be imposed
Mmmm where do we see these double standards in action day in and day out. The Secretary of State for Portsmouth was filmed posting the British Govt doom and gloom newsletter to every home in Scotland, remember his big Fozzie Bear coupon greetin about the poor tax payer having to pay for the White Paper!
@Croompenstein
Croomp, this literally opens a whole can of worms vis a vis Obama’s much publicised intervention. This other guff about Rowling and Broon? Kid’s stuff.
O/T
Just back from the “Big Indy Debate” in Hillhouse in Hamilton tonight.
Fantastic debate. Good natured all round, and the chair (the local minister) was excellent.
As the night went on the Yes speakers were getting more and more support.
The exit poll at the end was looking 3 to 1 for Yes when I left.
Came away elated and very encouraged. We can do this people.
@Truth –
Can I ask – who was speaking there this evening?
Bunter – that Scottish Govt lady was none other than Annabel Ewing daughter of Winnie – and yes, she was very good.
@Croompenstein –
‘…remember his big Fozzie Bear coupon greetin…’
🙂
@Onwards yes I know but who’s to say they are from the Yes
camp, we have told people on here to FO politely,I dont take
kindly to the great or the good useing a wide brushstroke,
without more in depth investigation,as with the MSM,
@Croompenstein
Mair like a sasquatch wi piles.
Courier indy roadshow debate, Prof Curtis asks if anyone has heard of Campbell Gunn special advisor, no hands go up. Later they are asked if they care about the Campbell Gunn issue, again no hands no up. Blair McDougall wont be pleased.
Had to watch that again just for “Please do, Susan. Please do.”
@ Rab_the_doubter –
If you want a new name, how about Rab_the_doubt_I’m_related _to_Pat_Lally
🙂
@annie – Where was that? is Poultice omnipresent he just seems to be everywhere!
Rev. Utmost respect. That’s all I have to say.
@Mary Bruce
Are the Scottish Labour press office and BBC Scotland the same thing?
The likes of Jackie Bird, Sally Magnusson, Glenn Campbell, Sarah Smith, Catriona Renton, Eleanor Bradbury, Brian Taylor etc says it pretty much is one and the same thing.
@Cindie
Loath as I am to admit it, I had never heard of the word misogyny before I started reading the Independence blogs.
Must be a political term that is often used as a weapon against your enemies? Like welfare claimant?
@Croompenstein
The Scarlet Pimpernel in reverse.
@Ian Brotherhood
For Yes we had Christine McKelvie and Dennis Canavan. Both were on fire.
For No we had Jackie Burns (Larkhall Labour councillor) who interestingly said he was representing United With Labour and made no mention of Better Together despite that being who was the official No participant. We also had a young girl who’s name escapes me. She wasn’t the originally billed speaker. So fair play to her for turning up, but she was way out her depth and didn’t go down well with the locals.
The BT mob had plants asking questions, as I recognised some of them, and they all congregated at the end.
I don’t think it was filmed which is a shame as it was very well conducted all round.
I think the phrase ‘this is no longer the politician’s movement, this is the people’s movement’ explains the events of the past 48 hours
The people’s movement, lives, by and large, online. This is where we publicise events, encourage people to get out on the streets, pass on the documents or opinions we need to help convince undecided voters, support each other in bad times.
It’s vital to BT and the British State that Yes online is emasculated. The attacks will get worse. This is particularly true because – through the Aye Right leaflet among others, we provide a direct link from talking to people on the doorsteps to the arguments and opinions online. I’ve seen our @Yeswestlothian twitter feed putting on followers at an unprecedented rate over the past couple of months. Not all will be automatic Yes voters
So if BT can brand us all as abusive nutters, it serves their purpose admirably. They don’t need to discriminate between the various degrees of sanity on Yes. If they can get the idea that Yes Supporter= Abusive nutter across, their job is done. If they can stop the undecideds coming online for fear of being abused, they will smile and smile.
And, of course, it’s very, very, easy to fall into that trap. I refer you, merely as an example, to yesterday’s thread, where Bay Rok – correctly as it turned out – questioned the Pat Lally/Clare Lally relationship. He/she was the subject – if not of abuse, than at least of fairly pungent sarcasm from fellow wingers – and we’re the relatively good guys on the whole. I’m not aware of many apologies….
The most powerful argument for keeping it clean online is that it is our job – our mission, even, – to get the unpersuaded to vote Yes. They are being told we’re a bunch of racist, hate-filled lunatics. So we just need to go on demonstrating that we are not.
@Truth –
Cheers. Appreciated.
Macart says:
12 June, 2014 at 10:03 pm
@Croompenstein
Croomp, this literally opens a whole can of worms vis a vis Obama’s much publicised intervention. This other guff about Rowling and Broon? Kid’s stuff.
Yep, a good day to hide bad news. MSM were too busy vilifying YES voters to have time to report this “special relationship”
I am seeing a section of independence supporters, who appear to be mostly young, using this misogyny thing. To be honest, it just appears to be the right on thing to say. I am getting increasingly suspicious of people who use it to attack others. It looks like it is a form of PC, a form of conservatism, shaking the head at perceived inferior people, social disapproval, which is dressed up as morality. No doubt if Robert Burns was alive today, instead of being persecuted by people connected to religion, he would be getting pilloried and ostracised by holier than thou, goody two shoes, whiter than white people. Rant over.
Kininvie: The most powerful argument for keeping it clean online
We did. A great deal was satire, much else justified sarcasm. I saw no abuse.
Are we going to insult Stuart by suggesting he allowed abuse to be posted?
The public are treating the BT claims with bemusement. They failed in their attempt to discredit.
Sillers over-reacted. Most adulst would be in sulted by his lecture. He is not leader of the SNP.
Croompenstein – sorry don’t know, just picked it up on twitter, was re-tweeted by the Rev.
@Jill P
Considering the subject matter and the coverage Obama’s intervention received last week, this piece wasn’t even to be found in the Scottish section.
And they wonder why we have trust issues with Westminster and the media.
Meanwhile Iraq is exploding thanks to Labour and Blair with sidekicks.
Macart said: The real story recently was Obama’s truly odd intervention.
Good point.
Hilary Clinton has waded in – “both sides will lose out.”
Meanwhile, the ‘Brits’ prepare us once more to back into the disaster that was the Middle East, Iraq specifically, to aid the ‘democratically’ elected government, a puppet government and corrupt set up by the USA. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq. We swatted that nation with ‘shock and awe’ and dispersed a hornets’ nest. Now Al Qaeda is in Iraq.
Stand by for calls of unity, and Brit patriotism, and deferring ‘selfish’ unattainable ideals for Scotland to die instead in a far off land for global materialism.
In all honesty I do not believe that Alistair Darling actually believes the SNP are based on “blood and soil”. That doesn’t mean that he hasn’t been trying to imply that they are. If the transcript of the interview is anything to go by he hasn’t actually said it. The “Ye….” bit is him slipping up by agreeing to what he’s being trying to imply. The “at heart bit” is even sneakier as it’s got the whole dirty secret implications associated with it.
The supporters of Scottish nationalism on the other hand will obviously include an element who are more interested in ethnic reasons rather than economic. However it’s an unfortunate side effect of the BT/NT you cocks or whatever demand for an economic reason that it provides a justification for independence based on something other than nationality so trying to paint every advocate of independence as being motivated by “racial purity” is a non starter.
On the other hand the latest equal opportunities questionaires I’ve seen only have one category of Scottish ethnicity. I assume if you’re of mixed heritage you can tick more than than one box but if you’re a second or third generation descendant of an immigrant you can’t declare any affinity to Scotland.
@Macart
My point entirely. What a wonderful way to avoid the nuclear agreement. MSM went way over the top with this and the agreement went unreported.
And the result for tonight’s Hamilton debate now on twitter 65.7% Yes, 21.4% No and 12.8% don’t know.
Great result.
Forgot to mention that the reason the “Ye…” is cut off is that he opened his mount without thinking and went into overdrive trying to pull back from outright making the accusation.
Orri said: In all honesty I do not believe that Alistair Darling actually believes the SNP are based on “blood and soil”.
More fool you.
Where it all began, for those too young to have been aware of this…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Moore
Hilary Clinton insults Scotland on Newsnight. ” I would hate for you to lose Scotland” she says to Paxman.
@Thepnr, agreed, I think that terms like misogynist and racist are often misused in the indy debate, because by using such terms people can shout down an argument and besmirch their opponent. That does not mean that it doesn’t exist online, because it very much does and (as Miriam does in her article) people should be called out on it when they use it.
@Grouse Beater
Sort of puts the puff pieces we’ve been fed over the past few days into perspective.
Dalgety Bay may not be radioactive, but it is certainly poisonous! 😉
Meanwhile, over on UK Polling Report, a Scottish commentator expressed support for Croatia in the football. Someone quipped “Anyone but England, eh?”
Someone else (whom I believe to be a member of the Labour Party; he certainly posts on LP sites) then said this:
“Well if the Nats are planning to follow Croatia on the way to independence we all better buy our hard hats. If you’re English or Jewish best leave now. Then they can rename all the streets and rewrite the dictionary to remove “Anglicisms” in peace without any objections.
Kim Jong Il? No that was going too far. Tudjman? Watch this space.”
As someone who is half-Scottish and half-Jewish, I find this very offensive. Half of me will have to run the other half out of the country. I reported the comment, but it has not been removed. Apparently it’s “light-hearted banter.”
I’ve put this here, because otherwise I will be tempted to respond over there, which might be unwise.
Grouse: it depends on what you think is worse. That AD genuinely believes that of the SNP or that he’s being trying to imply they are as a cynical smear in order to deter the majority of the scots born electorate and the rest who will be second class citizens at best in an ethnically based independent Scotland (a bit like Nazi Germany) from voting for independence. I stand my opinion that he’s godwining his arse off.
If Hillary Clinton did say that to Paxman, then it just underlines that the British state views Scotland in terms of a possession.
DR reports that queenie twice refused Cameron’s calls to back the Union. Spin? positioning? or is she aware of possible trouble if she did.
Louise White’s Morning Moanin Topic “Have recent events made you Scared to voice your opinion in the referendum debate” listeners were told to steer clear of Politics…..
Yes supporters therefore couldn’t explain the vilifying tactics being used against them.
Whilst Unionists were laying on thick the dogs abuse they experience.
The topic was chosen to
1. put people off talking about the referendum.
2. encouraging them to stay away from the Internet the domain of the evil Cybernats.
The YES side’s main campaigning tools are
1. personal conversations with voters.
2. Social Media, Newsnetscotland, Wings Over Scotland and Bellacaledonia.
Just got round to watching this. What an ill mannered woman Mrs Dalgety is. I know that I for one would have fallen for the tactic and responded to her in kind so 100% to you Stu for keeping calm and reasonable. Also a bonus for you that she kindly took the time to explain how the scottish media works 🙂
What an obnoxious, patronising, not to mention clueless woman. You did well Stu. Could almost see a vein popping out your head at the end though.
Newsroom, Edinburgh 4th July see you all there.
The point is this is the 5th PUBLIC meeting of Yes/Wings supporters. In my view it’s important that we do this simple thing.
Come along I think the place will be packed. Bring your best pal or partner too!
A nice little benefit of the most recent disaster in Iraq is the increase in the price of oil. Every single forecast for revenues is now wrong and getting more wrongful by the hour.
@cynicalHighlander says:
Meanwhile Iraq is exploding thanks to Labour and Blair with sidekicks.
Where’s a Middle East Peace Envoy when you need one?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6244358.stm
I feel very sorry for the NO VOTERS who are proud of their own countries inabilities to manage our own affairs and are proud to tell the world how incapable they are.
This is especially true of ANY politician or party who wants to govern and control Scotland when they go to extraordinary lengths to explain that they need help to manage the country because they are to wee, stupid and poor.
If we are to wee, stupid and poor to run our own country then we certainly have no use for incapable politicians to kid us on.
I smoke 30 cigarettes a day and I dont sound a wheezy as your opponent there Stu.
Her faux outrage and that of Clair Lally is simply hilarious.
“Right, guys. Here’s the plot. You come away publicly with some anti independence stuff and then we’ll pretend to be cybernats and we’ll foulmouth you online on Twitter. Then we’ll get the BBC and the papers to attack “the foul mouthed nats”. Got it?”
It wouldn’t matter if we were all Mother Teresa this is what we are going to get.
@Calgacus MacAndrews
Blair and sidekicks…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9_yv1m9jN8
@ Clydebuilt,
Completely disagree. After the massive ding dong over some online stories from the last couple of days it is a perfectly rational follow up piece to do.
It offers a great opportunity to allay peoples fears about searching for information online. I think you will find that the numbers are stacking up for YES, but we need to keep things civil. We are getting trolled by Better Together and the wider NO Scotland campaign – I think many will have learned something from the last couple of days. Lets now move on.
It take it that if Hilary wants No because: US wanted Britain to remain “strong, robust, united and effective”.
Then it is clear that without Sotland rUK will be:
Weak, fragile, divided and ineffective.
The UK can be accurately described as a rogue state; it is constantly engaged in criminal activity, so this sounds good to me.
On the Hillary Clinton story – Better Together are trolling this on twitter – If you do bite AFTER thinking then be uber polite and charming with it. 😀
Crazycat
Labour are going big on the Nazi smear thing, shoehorning it into everything…just humour though. It is easier than making a positive case for the Union (a lot easier and they are lazy sods at the best of times).
This is a goof example of the kind of stuff I would write to the Guardian, if I was trying to smear Yes voters.
Its probably written by Severin Carrell buts interesting that this kind of thing is popping up now in ukok national papers just after The Flipper told the world voting yes makes you nazi.
Come to think of it, Tom MacNab may well be the Flipper’s nom de plume or even Rowling, or its just MI5?
https://archive.today/0x55T
It is no surprise that JK Rowling chooses to vote no in the Scottish independence referendum (Magic day for no campaign as JK Rowling donates £1m, 12 June). She is English-born and raised, after all, and wants to maintain the link with her homeland. Even if she has lived in Scotland for the last 20 years, that does not make her Scots. I lived in England for six years and did not feel the least bit English. We are what we are, for better or worse. Like most English people, I would suggest, she does not know the concept of independence because the English have always considered themselves to be independent. Technically they are not, but it is understandable that they might feel that way, as they make up 80%-plus of the UK population.
So she is voting with her heart. One cannot say the same of the ("Tractor" - Ed) knaves Brown and Darling. Of course they and all the other Scots MPs at Westminster stand to lose their jobs, well-paid with generous expenses, were the referendum to go against their wishes. I shall also be voting with my heart – “just for the glorious privilege of being independent”, as Burns would say.
Tom McNab
Edinburgh
If there’s one thing all this, and other “issues” have revealed, it’s how banal many of the “established” politicians are and Labour ones seem to be leading the pack.
I suspect Labour voters have assumed over the last 30 years they were represented by people with ideals, and despite the opinion polls at the moment the vote in September may be truly shocking for Labour MPs in particular.
I agree with Sillars though, the best way to deal with fools is not to be equally foolish.
Orri said: it depends on what you think
What do I think? Here is what I think.
Scotland, us, the greater mass of the people, we are engaged in a democratic revolution.
I choose my works carefully to be succinct.
It. Is. A. Revolution.
We are extremists in the sense we intend to overturn the slop of corrupt Westminster power and replace it with a truly egalitarian democratic system and structures suited to the people of this nation. All of them. Even non-believers.
That implies we are fighting on two fronts.
The first is against the colonial mindset embodied in British politician.
The second is against a good many of our own kith and kin.
I do not mean people who are ignorant or unaware of Scotland’s democratic deficit. They remain to be informed by us what are the problems, and what is the remedy.
I mean those who never raised a finger let alone a voice when the British government redrew Scotland’s coastal sea boundaries almost overnight – without consultation of the people of Scotland – to corral oil in order to squander it on defeating the systems of democracy in their own land and destroy the manufacturing base of Scotland.
I mean those who punched the air with glee on hearing the RBS was as toxic a bank as any in England. I mean those who send us to war.
These are the people who detest the democratic process. Some were born in Scotland.
They are the banal, such as Lally, the ugly, such as Reid, and the puffed up, such as Darling.
There is no point in pretending everybody is nice enough to be persuaded to vote yes. Who wants to be nice when your entire nation’s integrity is at stake?
Drop the call for bourgeois good manners. Those people plot and conspire to achieve the permanent taming of this nation once and for all. They wish us to be docile. They wish this nation controlled.
They are the slackers, the sleazy, the carpet baggers, the freeloaders. They are the craven, the turncoats, the true blue bandits.
I repeat – we are conducting a revolution.
Do not suffer fools gladly.
Do not trust British politicians.
Do not offer pleasanteries to the peurile and the paltry.
Treat the banal with disdain. Use satire and sharp polemic as your weapons. Do not apologise for your intensity.
We are in fierce protest for a better life for all in this nation. Those who are determined to dislocate, to fracture that camaraderie, that unified act, should be told to take a hike for they will benefit from our efforts.
Our struggle has tremendous similarities with many South American countries that have undergone a similar recent transition, derided by the USA, by neighbour states in hock to the USA, and controlled by their military and their media and their power elite.
We in Scotland reject the mean spirited, small-minded nastiness of the fearful who feel we should drop our sights and ideals to their level. If a Scot tell them to raise their standards.
We have raised our standard – the Saltire.
We will win this revolution because we do it for all the people, while the few who call the movement ethnic and tribal plot to protect their personal interests and fortunes.
To hell with them!
Remember that the Clintons daughter attended St Andrews University for part of her education. Remember that Scotland is not an official state yet. Once we are then these silly discussions that we are not part of will end.
Once we are a proper nation state we will have gained the international stature to contribute positively in similar interviews. At present we are seen as little more than an appendage of London.
I actually think the story over the past couple of days is that Clare Lally has destroyed her credibility – or has allowed it to be destroyed – and that is the way the public see it.
She was very foolish indeed to turn down the apology but she may realise one day that she is expendable to those who advise her and that advice she is given is not necessarily designed to help her
The J K Rowling intervention has sunk without trace.
@orri,
I agree with Grouse. I think the man truly believes it. He wouldn’t have said ‘…Which is isn’t’ if he didn’t.
@ Grouse No point in getting into an argument over this. But, as you know,the Rev doesn’t censor comments, so in no way is it an ‘insult’ to him
The Queen has refused (twice) to back the Union. David Cameron has asked here just as he is asking almost anyone else on planet earth to intervene for the Union.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/referendum-queen-refused-cameron-calls-3682197#.U5otov9vTSs.twitter
Come on Cameron – I will debate with you if you won’t debate with Salmond. 😀
@Grouse Beater
Well said, we just need to box clever, but punch hard ?
Stu,
Like many others, want to say well done re. last night’s appearance on STV. You were calm, measured & dealt in FACTS, ie. not interpretation or spin. Particularly enjoyed your quick, sharp demolition near the do as to why Lally is no ‘ordinary’ voter (ordinary voters aren’t CLP office-holders, aren’t in the Labour shadow cabinet, etc). Dalgety presented as though she was chewing a wasp.
Just watched STV news. Lead item…. Campbell Gunn & his (verbatim quote from voiceover) “personal attack” on poor Clair. My god, they are really trying to milk this.
Kendomacaroonbar asked: we just need to box clever, but punch hard?
In a word? Yes.
@Grouse Beater
Are you stirring the porridge? Your rant goes against everything you espouse. Doubt you’ll wind me up.
O/T @Thepnr That meetup at the Newsroom sounds ace, it’s on the same street as my work so very very handy – I’ll be there and see if I can convince a work mate or two.
I’m mainly a lurker on Wings, spend most of my time reading and posting on twitter, so you’ll not have seen me post more than a couple of times but I certainly have a good feel of what sort of community we have here – a braw one that I’d love to meet up with.
I have no words to describe the STV propaganda news there.
… ‘shocking’ maybe!
Maybe we should borrow Boris’s water cannon to blast some of the idiots backwards out of their underpants that swan up here to tell Scots they must remain servile.
Boris is expecting “disorder this summer.”
Kettling is not good enough.
Protestors will be categorised as rioters to justify their use. There will be lost of debate on television and in the newspapers for and against, but eventually they will be used on the street of the “greatest” city in the world.
One week London, next week Glasgow.
I got in late last night from work but in time to watch Stu on the telly with that lovely Labour lady.
My wife and teenage daughter, who only have a passing interest in the referendum, wondered what the story was about (they thought it was the JK Rowling thing) and as I tried to describe it I realised how stupid it sounded which was compounded by the look on their faces. Its a nothing story to most folk, in fact it is becoming a real turn off to them as to those not heavily involved in the debate it just looks like “normal” politics.
Maybe that’s the plan of the No side, try and turn it into Westminster style over substance politics.
Just ignore me then?
@Grouse Beater (11.46) –
Powerful polemic there. Me like.
Speaking personally (sans SSP bunnet) I frequent this site because I would like to be able to call someone a ‘liar’ if I know they are not telling the truth.
Politicians are not permitted to do that, be they in the HoC or Holyrood, even when they KNOW that someone is lying.
‘If freedom of speech means anything at all, it means the freedom to tell people what they do not want to hear.‘ – Orwell.
WTF?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27817449
RogueCoder says:
WTF?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27817449
I wonder if the booklet comes with a freepost return address on the back. 😛
Rogue Coder – worry ye not – the WOS wee blue book will be out in a wee while and the UKOK one will have long been forgotten and/or binned. 🙂
Ian quoted Orwell: If freedom of speech means anything at all, it means the freedom to tell people what they do not want to hear.‘
I forgot about that epigram. A good one. Thanks.
@Leslie-Ann,
WTF?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27817449
I wonder if the booklet comes with a freepost return address on the back. 😛
I am sure that we will find a suitable free post address to use. 😀
The last paragraph, they promise to abide by the rules – dont know whether to laugh or cry, they’ve broken the rules so many times already.
I’ll reiterate what I said before, if this booklet is distributed by Better Together supporters then the Electoral Commission MUST classify this as a donation spent, counting to their total allowance.
The booklet has been in production for around a month and is not a reaction to any recent narrowing of the polls, Mr Carmichael said.
Under Electoral Commission rules there will be restrictions on the information that the Scottish government and certain publicly funded bodies can publish about the referendum from 22 August.
The restrictions relate to publishing general information about the referendum as well as about the issues and arguments, and also apply to encouraging people to vote.
The UK government is not covered by the referendum legislation but has agreed to abide by the same restrictions.
@Grouse Beater –
You are very welcome, but it was from memory, and may be wrong. I suppose the basic message is the same though…
Adrian B says:
@Leslie-Ann,
WTF?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27817449
I wonder if the booklet comes with a freepost return address on the back. 😛
I am sure that we will find a suitable free post address to use. 😀
Phew, thank goodness for that. I was getting worried for a second there. I really thought I’d have to put it through my shredder before binning it. Last thing I want is for my neighbours to find out the sort of porn material that is read in my house. 😛
PNR asks: ignore me
I answered at length and it disappeared, my third post of the day.
I suggest the conquest of happiness (a recent essay on my blog) can’t be acquired unless and until individuals are free to run the affairs of their own nation. Fools keep detracting the long march. That struggle only begins on the 19th of September.
It’s the struggle Rowling senses will happen and recoils from because she’s an old-time right-wing Victorian who has made a fortune and, in the philanthropic tradition of Tories, gives to good causes now and again. She thinks she is humanitarian but in reality is suffocatingly bourgeois.
She asks for conformity. It’s comfortable to her lifestyle.
@Adrian B
I am sure that we will find a suitable free post address to use
UKIP have one, I’m sure they will pass it on 😉
@ Lesley-Anne
Last thing I want is for my neighbours to find out the sort of porn material that is read in my house
I just sprayed wine all over my computer screen laughing at that!
rab_the_doubter says:
The booklet has been in production for around a month and is not a reaction to any recent narrowing of the polls, Mr Carmichael said.
The booklet may NOT be in response to the narrowing of PUBLISHED polls but never forget they also have THAT other poll, you know thwe one…the *drum roll* *cough* unpublished poll! ta da! 😛
RogueCoder says:
@ Lesley-Anne
Last thing I want is for my neighbours to find out the sort of porn material that is read in my house
I just sprayed wine all over my computer screen laughing at that!
Oops!
Sorree! 😛
Once more playing catch up and trying to make sense of the last two days. What is noticeable to someone reading and arriving late is,
S Dalgety-communications advisor
J Mcternon- spin doctor
D Whitton – communications advisor
All over the studios , giving their tuppence worth.
Where was Duncan H who at least appears on the internet to debate the issue or Geordie Foulkes who is not averse to a bit of Twitterring?
For Grousebeater, the best comment I’ve heard over the last two days , chiming with your post at 11.45 was “I’ve found my gumption and I like it!”. (Marge S writ large! )
Coder said: WTF??
I know. The British establishment demonstrating how it really feels about Scotland’s democratic ambitions.
Irony is wasted on them.
But the booklet contains no mention of any new powers for Scotland. “A matter for later debate.”
Aye, right.
@Grouse Beater
I didn’t like you when you first popped up on this blog and told us your background and that “we” could ask any questions about the BBC and you would provide the answers.
To be honest I thought either this guy is full of shit or a plant who thinks we are stupid. I guess I’ve read most of your posts since then.
However, your wee rant tonight suggests we should do the opposite of what others are suggesting.
“Drop the call for bourgeois good manners. Those people plot and conspire to achieve the permanent taming of this nation once and for all. They wish us to be docile. They wish this nation controlled.
They are the slackers, the sleazy, the carpet baggers, the freeloaders. They are the craven, the turncoats, the true blue bandits.
I repeat – we are conducting a revolution.
Do not suffer fools gladly.
Do not trust British politicians.
Do not offer pleasanteries to the peurile and the paltry.
Treat the banal with disdain. Use satire and sharp polemic as your weapons. Do not apologise for your intensity.
We are in fierce protest for a better life for all in this nation. Those who are determined to dislocate, to fracture that camaraderie, that unified act, should be told to take a hike for they will benefit from our efforts.”
I Disagree, we should be good mannered at all times, I felt you wanted to raise the tempo. For why would be my question.
Why do the Westminster government think that this wee booklet will make any difference? It’s not like it’s gonna present a positive vision of the future for us to imagine about, is it?
We’ve had every one of their propaganda scare stories in the newspapers and on telly, over and over, day after day for the last 2 years and the gap in the polls continues to narrow. How’s the wee booky full of the same old boring shite (background noise) that we’re fed up hearing about going to change any minds?
@ Lesley-Anne
Last thing I want is for my neighbours to find out the sort of porn material that is read in my house.
Perhaps you should stop posting it through your neighbours post box then. 😀
@RougueCoder,
UKIP had to stop that return address due to the amount of flyers returned to them. Many very well adapted with special messages I hear.
@ Lesley-Anne
Quality comedic moment there, I take my hat off to you! Computer now clear and still working perfectly 🙂
@ Mary Bruce,
How’s the wee booky full of the same old boring shite (background noise) that we’re fed up hearing about going to change any minds?
I am sure they will seek it as being the best of both worlds and will showcase the positive case for the lost Union or something…….
Lesley-Anne
There were at least 3 polls paid by the Westminster that have remained private.
Anyway folks rise above the orchestrated smearing attacks against the Yes side. We shall prevail.
Adrian B says:
@ Lesley-Anne
Last thing I want is for my neighbours to find out the sort of porn material that is read in my house.
Perhaps you should stop posting it through your neighbours post box then. 😀
Oh thanks for that tip Adrian, I knew I was going wrong somewhere just couldn’t put my finger on it. 😉
RogueCoder says:
@ Lesley-Anne
Quality comedic moment there, I take my hat off to you! Computer now clear and still working perfectly 🙂
Glad to be able to serve up a wee bit late night whatsits. Always remember I am this site’s closet idiot! 😛
Id pay good money to watch a mud wrestling match between Susan Dalgety and Margaret Curran! 🙂
My greatest annoyance is the way the SNP is selling the apology. Gunn should have apologised for nothing other than linking her to Pat Lally. I imagine the FM could have got more mileage out of that. And he really, really should have said that of course people should refrain from abuse…therefore would Ruth, Johann and Wullie call for Darling to be sacked for his outrageous slurs? Would Ian Davidson apologise for wantig to bayonet the wounded? One problem we have is that the MSM don’t report that stuff with the same force (if at all) so when these stories arise (as the will continue to do) Yes people should take the opportunity to list the litany of abuse dished out by No people. They could even just point out the numbers of convictions on each side and insist that the other party leaders call off THEIR dogs too.
@The Man in the Jar says:
Your are putting me off my breakfast and I have not even gone to sleep and woke up to have my breakfast. I probably have nightmares with that image in my mind.
Some very good downloadable indi graphics on Wee Ginger Dug. Just the job for folk that like those stinking badges!
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/revenge-of-the-1980s-vw-camper-van-taking-back-no-thanks/
wee eck did the right thing ,yes he could have gone on the attack but then that would have been lowering to their standards and that is so what they want ,but eck is to smart for that dont forget what he told everybody a positive campaign against a negative will always win ,but two negative campaigns the most negative will win ,he didnt sit down in westminster all those years for nothing you know.
I know it’s late but these are restless times
and I’ve just had this thought –
If Scotland was a person and England was a person,
then England would be master to Scotland.
And Scotland would be subject to England.
That’s the problem alright.
It’s just that the master doesn’t see it that way.
Nor many in Scotland who give him their allegiance
http://www.scotsman.com/business/salmond-heralds-strong-oil-future-for-scotland-1-3440385
Alex Salmond heralds ‘strong oil future’ for Scotland
“Scotland’s oil industry can look forward to “a strong and stable future in an independent Scotland”, First Minister Alex Salmond will say today.
Mr Salmond will speak at the inaugural annual Oil & Gas UK Conference in Aberdeen, which is expected to attract some 500 delegates from the oil industry.”
Meanwhile
UKIP leader Nigel Farage declares £205,603 in gifts
Farage anger at allowances complaint
Nigel Farage has declared to the Electoral Commission over £205,603 worth of benefits-in-kind accumulated over more than 10 years.
The Electoral Commission says he should have made the declarations within 30 days of accepting the benefits.
It is considering whether to take action against him.
UKIP’s leader has had free use of a barn for his constituency office since 2001 but until now has not informed the Electoral Commission.
The commission says he should have told them about the value of the rent-free deal.
Records released today show he failed to do so until after the property featured in news stories in April, and he was contacted by the Commission.
A commission spokeswoman said: “At the moment, our party finance team is still reviewing all of the necessary information supplied to us by Mr Farage and are considering it carefully.
“Once this process is complete we will take a decision on whether any further action against him is necessary.”
It has the power to fine him up to £20,000.
But Nigel Farage said he had always declared the property – an old grain store near Lyminster – in a register in Brussels.
He told the BBC he had declared it as a benefit in kind there every year since 2001.
He added: “The Electoral Commission decided it’s a donation in kind to UKIP. I don’t understand it for a moment. I took advice which I thought at the time was right.”
A UKIP spokesman said: “Every year since 2001, Mr Farage has declared in his European Parliament Register of Interests the use of a rent-free office from J Longhurst Ltd. The premises has been used as his MEP office so the European Parliamentary register was the logical place for it to be declared.
“Mr Farage was surprised to learn that the Electoral Commission thought it should be informed as well as this did not accord with the professional advice he had received at the time.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27818780
That’s a shame.
The BBC’s pin up boy
now with a big stain on his character.
He has an explanation of course – his lawyer will have given him that.
I hope it doesn’t hurt his chances in the GE.
Auntie would be very upset I’m sure, if his followers were to think any less of him.
I mean isn’t freebies ‘n stuff par for the course at Westminster.
Nigel will fit right in.
This is from March
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/463823/SCOTLAND-AT-WAR-Death-threats-shame-both-camps-as-fight-for-votes-spirals-out-of-control
“In a worrying development for the Better Together campaign, 21 per cent of those planning to vote Yes have received abuse or threats compared to just eight per cent of those planning to vote No.”
Maybe it’s time for a new poll on the question?
gee… 400+ comments.
I have a couple.
Politics is a dirty business. In words an ordinary mum must understand… “if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen”.
Secondly, not only is rejection of an unreserved apology graceless (not perhaps what one would expect from a wronged ordinary mum) it was a political move intended to keep the pot boiling on the story.
Kenny said: One problem we have is that the MSM don’t report that stuff with the same force, if at all…
Absolutely correct.
And the vacuous opinion of a celebrity is presented as the wisdom of a sage.
And we are given Janet Street Porter indulging in a pleasant weekend break to Scotland courtesy of the licence fee.
Fradge starts to unravel. Protected by the Tory grandees, hoping to make it to ‘the free loading Lords’, before his criminal activities get found out. No chance.
Jim Sillars should wisen up, instead of acting as fifth column taking a swipe at the SNP at every opportunity, without any substance. Leave divide and rule to them. Unionists tell lies, when they get found out they start crying, ‘Wolf’, to divert attention. The MSM back them up. It will not work.
Thepnr / Grousebeater
Read both your comments. To be honest …you’re both right.
For myself, I view this as a revolution …but a velvet one. I said yesterday that we must reach for the higher ideal. I can see Grousebeater’s point of view that there are some on the other side that you wouldn’t want to shake hands with, but …we MUST keep a certain decorum. Believe me, we do not want to enter into the gutter. That is EXACTLY what BT want. Do that, and you begin to alienate people.
For as long as we hold the moral high ground and just keep telling people the facts, then they will sit and quietly ponder. If you rant, shout or name call, then these people will walk away. Remember, we are converting every level within the social aspect of Scotland; from the richest to the poorest, from the most educated to those who don’t want to know. If we get in their faces, then folk will turn away.
The reason BT have done so poorly is because they did shout, they did point fingers, they did tell us what we can’t have, or what we can’t do. They are STILL doing it.
Stick to the game plan. Quietly talk to people. Pass them the facts, even those facts of what happens if we vote ‘No’. Quietly and softly is the way. This is a revolution …but a velvet one.
Ken said: Fradge starts to unravel
Morning, Ken.
Farage as flaky as the rest of them? What a surprise.
Jim Sillars should wise up,
The difference between his response and Salmond’s is the reason why he isn’t First Minister and Salmond is.
There’s a ‘disconnect’ between a lot of politicians and the rank and file, us, to use a couple of old-fashioned phrases. They see internet as something separate, below the cut and thrust of public debate.
Some don’t know the definition of ‘personal abuse’ for they are unable to differentiate it from sarcasm, scorn, and justfied criticism.
until the evidence is shown i will continue to believe all this has been manufactured by bitter together this lot are capable of anything why do i say that because they are caught day and daily presenting lies as the truth thats it bare faced lies every day and the press and media are turning a blind eye to this propaganda blitz
Welldone Stu!!!
Scotland must set its agenda, not the BBC, not Rowling, or some way out of her depth, ambitious Labour foot soldier.
The utterances of those people are not what I aspire to emulate. On this thread there are better. For example, a professor posted an excellent contribution. It dismissed Rowling’s contradictory waffle. I’ve yet to hear anything close to it broadcast anywhere. Rowling is elevated to the untouchable.
There’s a superior standard of analysis and debate on this website than any in the MSM domain.
Inequality, honesty, integrity and Mr Brown. Multimillionaire/s should pay their taxes.
The Scottish Gov was elected and has the mandate and trust of the people. They carry out their mandate because the Party is funded by it’s members, not interest groups. Pity about the ‘opposition’ who have sat on their hands milking it for years. Now watching people going to food banks and dying, worldwide. Fleeced by Politicans and the Bankers. It’s disgusting.
The World Cup and Brazil’s poor will keep the patronising MSM occupied until Wimbledon comes along, and, forgetting Brazil exists, they look for more popular drama closer to hand, and after defaming Murray will boost him up again as “England’s best hope.” Team GB rides again.
@ Grouse Beater, yes dear the standards here are superior, we do tea and cup cakes rather then inebriated rants or was that you just being a bit angry at 11:46?
Brown, Clinton the tax evading multimillionaires try to use Scotland to flog a book, while children are starving in the world because of their actions. Hypocrites everyone. Hague/Joli hypocrites. They are part of the problem. Sexual violence. A low conviction rate in Britain. Two women are killed evey week.
Dear Paula Rose by David Austin
inebriated
I’m a non-drinker. I get ignored at bars. The bartender knows I am waiting to order an orange juice, no ice.
(You can keep your cupcakes. I’ll have a vanilla slice from Greggs, any day.)
Not the millionaire shortbread then?
millionaire shortbread
Millionaires are never offended. They’re too rich ever to be troubled by the rest of us. The rest of us constitute 95% of the population.
Juices at the bar are more expensive. A tip?
Where will the next MDA Nuclears be planted and paid for on the Thames? Good luck with that Hague.
manandboy
Just trying to picture Johan addressing 500 oil executives in Aberdeen…
Gaun yersel’ Alex.
Good luck with that Hague.
Aye. I see Obama and his generals of death are ramping up the fear quota of terrorists everwhere so they can order more WMD.
All that wasted anger over 5 Guantanamo detention prisoners traded for one US soldier and nobody realises the five have a drone with their name on it already.
Hilary Clinton telling Jeremy Paxman on a BBC interview,
“I would hate for “you” to lose Scatland”.
What?
Who is “you” and are we going somewhere that we might get lost.
Also listening to GMS radio Scotland and am still waiting on what the First Minister has to say about re-industrialisation. BBC Scotland blank on it so far.
Clinton said: “I would hate for “you” to lose Scatland”.
Scotland’s democracy is as nothing to USA interests. Rowling’s concern for Scotland’s well being doesn’t include our right to say no to US nukes.
(I’m off to work. I think Stuart said he was taking time off to watch the footie. I’ll be cheering Italy.)
O/T:
Hillary Clinton claims she would, “Hate for Britain to lose Scotland”. Were do these, self opinionated, USAsian numpties, like Clinton and Obama, get their totally uneducated wrong information from?
In the first place Scotland, and Scots, were British long before the country of England was established by the Angles after the Romans left South Britain. They remained British after the country of England was established and used military might to become the three country, Kingdom of England.
They remained British after the bipartite Treaty of Union was forced upon them and will remain British after Scotland takes her independance. Thus democratically legally ending the bipartite Treaty of Union.
It will be the political union of the bipartite United Kingdom that ends and both the kingdoms that were partners in that United Kingdom will remain just as British as they always have been.
Looks like the Brit government has been pleading with USA and Russia and anyone else to help prevent the break up, because it will leave a weak UK…….hang on, Scots are a drain on the UK, subsidy junkies, surely the UK will be better off?
I see already the “I would hate for you to lose Scotland” part of her less than a minute long contribution has been cut out as GMS’s later references to this are played.
As one American commentator has already alluded this co-ordinated attack by foreign political leaders will probably irk more Scots and usher them into the YES camp.
I don’t bother with my tin hat any more, morning all.
BBC Scotland’s Brian Taylor is now the spokesman for the Scottish Government regarding re-industrialisation.
Daily Rancid look to have been trawling for Cybernats and got a right zoomer to run with on its front page complete with quotes from Anas Sarwar.
Must have missed the ”bayonetting” headline of Ian Davidson and the McTernan ”sniper at Stalingrad” tweet front page.
Disgusting media.
The US is doing what’s in its own interest, just like it always does. Most countries do act in their own interests first, putting their own citizens first. Their governments generally do what’s best for the own people.
And, THAT is all we are asking for, our own elected government whose primary concern is for Scotland!
If it’s good enough for the US then it’s good enough for Scotland.
10% of American voters are of Scottish descent. Scotland has friends in high places. Warmongering Clinton will have to find another dump for her redundant weapons and pay for them. Ignorant Multimillionaires should pay their taxes and stop ‘free loading’ on the rest of the world.
Grouse Beater
Have you got a link to that professors comment on JK Rowling?
Ta
Two O/T points early today
Now that Nigel Farage’s UKIP has served its purpose of preventing a Labour advance at recent elections the destruction of Farage in the media continues apace.
I bet the US would like the assistance of Saddam Hussein (whom they initially propelled into power in Iraq) now. Unfortunately they had him killed. (Same applies in Libya.)
What goes around comes around
There is an excellent piece in Newsnet Scotland regarding the Lally affair, which I recommend as worth while read and perhaps get out onto the social networks
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/9315-we-are-intolerant-we-are-out-of-control-we-must-be-dealt-with
Quick summary of GMS for those unlucky enough to miss it:
Women! We think you don’t like separatism. Here’s a woman – Hilary Clinton, who is a woman – who can herd you into the appropriate pen. After all, there’s no woman politician more admired here by women than the woman, Hilary Clinton. How do we know this? Why, the man, Douglas Alexander, tells us it is so.
This is all self-evident but I think there might just be a need to write it down.
WHAT MAKES UNIONISTS TICK ?
There are two views of the purpose of the Referendum.
In the view of Scots nationalists, the purpose is to secure Independence and self-determination.
‘Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands.’
In the view of the unionists, the purpose of the Referendum
is to break up the UK by separating from England, Wales & NI.
(Actually Wales & NI barely come into it)
The unionists confuse purpose with consequence, and a single consequence at that.
Political separation from the rest of the UK IS a consequence of Independence
But separation is NOT it’s purpose.
This confusion in the minds of the Unionists gives rise to a narrative from the No Campaign which is dominated
by separation and its imagined terrible consequences,
expressed as threats and warnings.
That’s why the unionists say ‘we’re better together’.
As a result the two sides are debating from two very different perspectives.
Which makes the conversation very difficult indeed.
Like a game in which one side is playing tennis
While the other is playing badminton
But occupying the same court.
The unionists simple CANNOT see what Independence is about
Because they’re unionists.
They think differently from the nationalists.
Where the nationalists see ‘freedom to decide’
The unionists see ‘breaking the union.’
The nationalists for their part,can’t work out why the unionists don’t want self-determination.
To understand better the unionist position,
even a brief look at the Loyalist unionists of NI
offers a number of insights.
Thankfully, Scottish Loyalists are relatively few, though they do seem to attract a lot of ‘sympathy’ here in (sectarian) Scotland.
But there is another storyline which is part of the unionist side
and in particular, part of the Westminster based unionists viz the UK Government.
This storyline is actually rarely spoken about by the Unionist side.
But it is hugely relevant .
It’s about, surprise, surprise, the money.
It’s about Scotland’s oil and gas reserves which are estimated
to be worth about £4 TRILLION and set to last for another 200 years.
While the rank and file unionists fret over the break up of the Union
The UK Government is really only thinking about all that money
which by the way,it’s trying to keep a secret.
And so the unionists don’t talk about it.
All they say is that the oil is declining
and there will be little benefit to Scotland from it.
When oil men hear that they burst out laughing.
They know the truth.
So, there you have it.
Two groups of people having a debate
But they are actually discussing two different subjects.
It’s one of these things where
You either see it or you don’t.
You either get it or you don’t – and it works both ways.
One thing’s for sure.
After Independence,
When Scotland has become a prosperous and fair country
for all it’s people
Everybody will get it then.
@Edward
The link is further up the page.
I printed the letter from the independent so you all could read it.
US/UK are not democracies. Interest Groups (‘secretly’) decide policies. Two of the most unequal countries in the world, with some of the highest debt. Multimillionaires should pay their taxes.
Taxation without representation
No free and unbiased Press
No Democracy
@Edward
see comment at 7.25pm
Give Iraq back it’s Oil rights.
manandboy
The word Separation was deliberately chosen by No for a very good reason.
It has a subliminal resonance, emoting tears, pain, divorce, crying children, fears and hurt.
It is part of a sophisticated neural linguistic programming agenda and such an approach is very widely used in marketing and advertising. Any of our five sense are used to get the message over into our subconscious.
Of course the Naw lot fek it up by overdosing on the inanity of their negative threats,
I think many voters are taking a deaf ear to many of Naws words and they now have no alternative but just to ramp up the sledge of fears and smears.
They are losing and know it.
Hilary Clinton now!
We have American self interest.
We have London’s self interest.
What about the people of Scotland?
The BBC has again managed to turn a short comment into a statement – “…I hope” into Hilary Clinton opposes YES vote
The Daily Mail is going full tilt at Cameron and Hague for jollying and dickin about when Iraq is imploding.
Franky Cameron and Hague can do nothing until Obama makes up their minds for them.
BBC vote No Scotland very aroused with morning wood over Hillary Clinton “Ms Clinton said: “Oh, I would hate to have you lose Scotland.” says Hillary but who is “you,” England?
Naughty may actually orgasm on air right the noo!
Thanks Nana Smith 🙂
Training Day.
Interesting, that is the second time Douglas Alexander, has said don’t see what is happening around you, listen to, well first it was Obama, now Hillary Clinton.
Failing to have any message himself, he is desperately looking for ‘the outside’ to provide the answers.
Naughty for BBC balance farce chats to one more US vote No Scotland camper even further right than Billary and she says there’s “separatist movements all over the world that run out of cash and it just adds another defence issue”. I’m shocked.
Home of the free, land of the fart bag.
Well folks there you have it world politics in action.
American foreign policy laid bare.(This is most unusual stuff – believe me / they really are worried to comment on this / something is going on).
Hilary Clinton telling Jeremy Paxman on a BBC interview,
“I would hate for “you” to lose Scotland” ??
What let them off the leash ??? Or could there be a hint that US feels UK would suffer the most in such a divorce and be left out of the big league without lowly Scotland ??
There is form here for UK decline after loss of the American colonies, (is Hilary referring to this ? Is she proposing a US return to the UK fold ??)
Or has she had a call from ‘Dave’ too.
What; they’re Socialist ?
It’s a peaceful struggle no armed conflict ?
What; they want rid of Trident ?
Major Oil reserves now found on the Atalntic ?
Seriously dissappointed with the Obama administration and meddling at the whim of the UK.
Remember folks this is an administration talking – not the American people – who would largley take a dim view at such tactics.
Like us they are largely kept well in the dark by state manipulation of broadcasting and dont really get to hear whats going on overseas.
That honorary degree bt St Andrews looks a bit ill judged to close on 50% of Scotlands citizens now doesn’t it ?
GMS and even Naughtie trying to damp down the American woman’s views that are so off the mark. America’s got too much on it’s plate to have the Scots going independent.
I reckon that’s another 100+ votes for YES.
I was correct the quoted bit from Clinton “I would hate for you to lose Scotland” is going to be history, cut out from her full remark by GMS.
🙂
BBC Scotland TV news headlines just lied to me again. The reporter told me that Hilary Clinton said “I would hate the UK to lose Scotland”.
Hilary Clinton never mentioned the UK in her interview with Paxman, she said “I would hate you to lose Scotland”.
They also highlighted the fact that children brought up in poverty have poor health and education, surprise surprise.
But what they also added at the very end was that the Scottish Government is doing everything it can to tackle child poverty.
Insinuating that it was the Scottish Government that caused it all in the first place.
No mention that is was mainly caused by Westminster policy and the Tory/LibDem coalition.
Severin Carrell of raging hypocrite Guardian this morn says “The BBC spent £200m in Scotland” but no fact stuff and certainly not spent on their awful radio Scotland news which is truly terrible this morning, sport, John Buchan nothing story, massive vote No propaganda, more sport, call Kaye grot. Shit shit shit.
“Clootie says:
We have American self interest.
We have London’s self interest.
What about the people of Scotland?”
In the words of Winnie Ewing … ‘stop the world, Scotland wants to get on’!
Heedtracker
How much of the tax raised for the BBC is Scotland does that represent?
I wonder, and we will never see real accounts, of the £200 millions was for overhead charges for London Management?
Wee Naughtie’s hotel bills, meals, taxis and plane tickets?
Getting rid the BBC would be a win-win situation.
We win and they don’t.
Although the backroom staff and technicians should be employed by the SBC.
Testing
It doesn’t matter who is in power in the White House or at Westminster. Scotland has NO say in it and just has to tag along at the back and go in whatever direction that we are taken.
Wake up my fellow Scots who are still undecided about whether to vote YES or not.
You have the chance on 18th September to vote for Scotland to become an Independent Nation once again and let Scots decide which direction it wants to take in the world.
Just spotted on the Rev twitter feed that he has pulled up the hootsmon for fabrication, looks like he is about to rip them a new one
In the words of Winnie Ewing … ‘stop the world, Scotland wants to get on’!
But bettertogether/BBC tell you over and over you already are, so shut up Scotland, vote no, store Trident, prepare for more war in the middle east/slaughtering peasants, strength, world clout, safety, security, teamGB fights above its weight, “Oh, I would hate to have you lose Scotland.” UKOK for now and forever, come on England, etc
o/t
Catharsis:
the process of releasing, and thereby providing relief from, strong or repressed emotions.
Was what my first day out delivering yes papers was meant to be,
I found sitting here while people like Ronnie, Morag and so on talk about how many papers they delivered and the vast distances (Morag in particular) cover to deliver one paper, made me feel distinctly slothful and not a little ashamed, so having been dragooned by the local YES campaign
I say dragooned but it was by my own hand that I found myself sitting in a room in the local centre with a surprising number of people (about 30) all volunteers, waiting for their marching orders from the local worthy from the yes campaign, so I found myself with my hand in the air when they asked for volunteers to deliver YES papers, how the hell did that happen?
I have to say my vision of pitching in was more akin to standing in a tent in park in the sunshine explaining to the uninitiated and uninformed the joys of independence,
my wife swore she would kill me if I offered to deliver papers,
not, I hasten to add because she disagrees with the campaign but more concerned for my health which could be better I have to say,
So the campaigner gives me a map of a few streets to visit (hmm not too far away from my house and not so many houses, I can do this)so I get up at my usual 05.00 what? I like getting up early, and its dry but overcast and mild,. perfect weather for going door to door,
so I sit for an hour catching up here ,and reading a great post on Bella Caledonia http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/12/spin-and-smear/
and suitably disgruntled by the unionist hatefest ranged against me personally,
Then I decide I can put off no longer (besides you’ll enjoy it when you get started John I attempt to convince myself)
so I remember what Ronnie said about folding papers, and think that is a good idea rather than doing it while your standing at the door, so I go out to the car to retrieve the small bundle of papers I was given the previous evening,
So I take them into the kitchen and cut the polypropa stuff holding them together,and then they leap at me, like some kind of uncaged animal, it seems like the organiser has made a mistake and given me the papers for the entire east coast of Scotland,
I must remember to return the half a million papers he seems to have given me in error,
So I begin to fold, and fold and fold and fold and, well you get the idea, and after what seemed like a thousand papers the pile looks not one inch smaller, so I carefully put them in a back pack with zips down each side and open the front door,
What was initially an overcast but dry day has decided to do a reasonable impersonation of a Malaysian monsoon,
not to be cowed into submission decided this is an opportunity for absolution from the people who have been doing this for months with no thanks and no fanfare,
So off I go into the torrential downpour, (in fact it was more like smirr but monsoon sounded better) and decided due to the rain and probable 2 hour trek round the doors, it would be sensible to drive the 500 yards to the point where I would leave the car, what? you’ve not met my wife, If I were to go home soaked and knackered she would make my life hell (BELIEVE ME),
So I park the car and immediately woos out visiting the local corner shop to give the Asian owner a paper cos someone’s in the shop and it wouldn’t be a good idea to start my careerer as an activist by getting into a fist fight with some local lunatic who thinks Claire Lally is just an ordinary mum,besides I look at the billboard outside the shop which screams “Clutha survivor life made hell by cybernats”! (Daily Record)
But after a few yard walking to the end of the road to start there (don’t want to miss anyone out)
the zips on my backpack decided to open and the papers (all of them) deposit themselves on the wet pavement,
It is hard to maintain ones dignity when scrambling to pick up half a million papers before they become papier mache meanwhile passers-by (dammit) are finding my plight not a little funny, this was meant to be a sober and serious (and dignified) door to door to bring enlightenment to the masses, (well Auchterhhmmmpp road actually),
So I approach my first door which appears to have a bear trap where the letter box should be,
Has anyone tried to push a soaking wet three page paper through a trap designed to capture a 9 foot grizzly?
yea thought not,
But undeterred I continue,
the rain slackens to a light thunder storm,
I continue to mince the words of Alex and Nicola through ungrateful letter boxes,
I discover that in spite of living in this town all my life there are many more houses in this road I have been allotted than there first appears, and also found out the being open plan (that’s good right?) and the majority of the residents are elderly, the council cuts the grass for them,
I soon discovered wet grass on a wet pavement amount to an ice covered skidpan,
so after picking myself up and pouring the (by this time) soaking papers back into the bag continue
I visit a house where the resident thought it would be a great idea to rather than have a boring old path to place wobbly stepping stones amid a sea of gravel,making traversing this obstacle course like that programme where the people come crashing off these huge balloons to smash their face into the next balloon in line while the female presenter laughs like a drain.
Turns out I didn’t fold anywhere near enough papers to finish Fifes equivalent of the effing TARDIS,
so I decided to call it a day since the water at this point was doing strange things to my underwear,
I get home feeling slightly waterlogged, and look in the bathroom mirror to find my face is pot black as were my hands, I was looking at my dad staring back at me when he got home from the pit, turns out newsprint and water are not a good mix, (who knew?)
I hate f**king delivering papers, I hate going out in the rain, I hate my bloody town which it turns out has the population of f**ing Glasgow,I hate falling on my arse on wet grass.
I award myself extra salt in my porridge for efforts going above and beyond my expectations,
I’ll be up at 05.00 tomorrow and the sun will be shining I’ll get a real paperboys satchel and I’ll do it again and again and again,and again until we FUCKING WIN THIS.
CATHARSIS!
LOL, Now BBC radio Scotland have a different quote from Hilary Clinton from that of their TV news bulletin. The TV said Hilary would hate the “UK” to lose Scotland, and their radio pals are saying Hilary said she would hate “Britain” to lose Scotland.
The point being, she didn’t say either UK or Britain, she said “you would lose Scotland”.
Don’t they have the original copy of the interview, after all, it was a BBC interview.
Neither the Yes voters nor the No voters will win this Referendum. It will be the Undecided who will make or break it. I take heart from an article I read that most undecided voters are more susceptible to the yes message than the no. Let the no be the bad guys please. I hear on the grapevine that the Orange Lodge are planning a March in Edinburgh on Saturday 13th September, handing out Better Together alongside Fascists from the Britain First Group. Please let it be true? Bad publicity for the no vote will always make the difference. Let’s see the BBC ignore the news that day when the lunatics take over the asylum?
Stephen.
@manandboy at 8.25am
Yes agreed. Oil has got a big part to play in the referendum, and we better waken up to this. I’ve worked in the oil industry for 33 years and know how much a huge oil base means to any country and more important the world in general. I’ve also worked in Norway and see what wealth, a small Independent country with vast oil reserves can bring.
Re-iterated, by Obama, on the BBC, over Iraq on the problems now unfolding there. Funny how he didn’t mention oil in his speech last week, favouring Scotland remaining in the UK. But happy to mention oil in the insurgence going on in Iraq and how important it is to the world.
“While Mr Obama may feel bound by his campaign promise to end the war in Iraq, he writes, circumstances dictate a change of policy.
“The Middle East could see the collapse of state stability in a cross-sectarian, multiethnic country of 35 million people that borders many of the region’s most important states and is the world’s fastest-growing oil exporter,” he writes. “Any other country with the same importance and the same grievous challenges would get more US support.”
Bugger the Panda,
“Getting rid the BBC would be a win-win situation.
We win and they don’t.
Although the backroom staff and technicians should be employed by the SBC”.
I think that is the Scottish Government plan BoP.
All management, presenters, reporters and trainee Home Counties folk can go and take a good **** to themselves. I don’t want to see any of their faces every again on my TV screen.
Maybe H Clinton thinks Scotland is an appendage, which can be ‘lost’ when the agenda of westminster, and others with vested interests, have taken what they want. The msm westminster tactics of slur, stifle and silence debate will not work on the majority of people in Scotland.
A YES is the only way to stop the rot of so called democracies from destroying Scotland.
@ caz_m, who cares aboot Hilary Clinton she’s no a wummin
that uses the Heid.
Morning Bugger (the Panda), the whole Carrell thing is just usual Guardian/BBC sneaky creepy vote No word game once again boosting up an extraordinary ukok liar like Crash Gordon as in, “The BBC spent £200m in Scotland”
Its effectively meaningless but its seems like a lot to spend. Carrell hits a WoS report on the actual cost of the BBC paid by Ireland for example, so they are watching Reverend Campbell very closely.
“The BBC spent £200m in Scotland , implying that Scottish licence payers contributed only £100m into the corporation’s pan-UK programming.”
If you ever go to Dublin, the BBC garbage farts out of any tv that’s on, so there’s the real world and vote NO Severin Carrrell Guardian world.
@caz-m
It’s only a matter of time before the BBC morph Clinton’s ‘I would hate you to lose Scotland’ into ‘Hilary Clinton has spoken of her hell at the hands of the cybernats’.
I give it until half way through Fred McAuley.
O/T
Just carried out a YouGov poll. Afetr the main poll there was a supplementary question –
“The referendum on Scottish independence will be held on September 18th, in just over 3 months. What do you think is the most likely outcome of that vote?”
After providing an answer it came up with the following:
Scotland will become an Independent country – 19%
Remain in the UK – 63%
No opinion – 18%
(All GB adults 10/06/14)
As I’d expect approx 90% of the respondents to this poll to be living in England and not following the online debates, not a bad result for us.
Regarding the World Cup, we Scots are caught right in middle of a dilemma here. An England defeat brings us joy and happiness, an England win bring YES votes.
The more England win, the more the YES votes we get.
Decisions decisions.
Jim
I would agree not a bad a result but it does suggest that there might be a few surprised people elsewhere when a Yes vote occurs.
Meanwhile over on the BBC an article about the increasce on billionaires over the past 10 years and the forecast prediction they are to rise in the next 10 years.
Between 2003 and 2013 the number of billionaires increased from 935 to 1682.
Meanwhile the people falling into poverty and using foodbacks is going to increase, in Scotland, going forward.
“The extremely wealthy are growing in numbers and entire industries are being created to cater to their desires but where are the individuals who are amassing vast fortunes based and what do we know about them?”
“The number of billionaires is forecast to grow by 38% to 2,315 in the decade to 2023, according to Knight Frank’s annual Wealth Report which is carried out by the research company Wealth Insight.”
“The crude number of billionaires may not be that high, but the report forecasts growth among those with $30m (£18m) or more, also known as “Ultra High Net Worth Individuals”, to reach 215,000 by 2023, a rise of 28%.”
@ John King.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97731450/5%20easy%20steps.m4v
It gets easier the more you do it.
🙂
But “I got an honorary degree from St Andrews”.
Clearly there won’t be any universities in an independent Scotland, far less ones of the standard of St Andrews. Hell the golf courses will probably disappear too, and the sand on the beach.
Does an honorary degree from St Andrews carry more weight with a UJ on it than one with a saltire? Or was this just a wee quip, banter with Paxo?
Morning Ronnie Anderson
All this bullshit from BBC Scotland and Better Together all week has just made me twice as determined to go out and fight for our right to be an Independent Nation.
They just don’t get us. NEVER bullshit a Scot. We see right through your crap and it just makes us fight all the harder.
Gon yursel Ronnie. Have a nice day.