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The tissue-paper tigers

Posted on February 18, 2019 by

It’s never a good look for a politician to have fewer principles than UKIP. When Tory MPs Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless defected to Nigel Farage’s party, both stood down from their seats and fought by-elections to establish whether their electoral mandates were personal or owed to the party. Both of them won. (Though both men subsequently lost at general elections and Reckless has now returned to the Tories.)

The seven Labour MPs who resigned from the party today have no such honour and no such respect for the electorate. They’ve quit the party but not their cushy and lucrative jobs as opposition MPs, and will bring about absolutely no practical difference other than sitting a few feet further to the left in the Commons voting exactly the same way as they did before.

Labour MPs already regularly rebel against the whip anyway – just last week 40 of them broke ranks to back an SNP amendment on Brexit. So nothing will be achieved by Chuka Umunna and six people nobody in the real world has ever heard of splitting under the meaningless umbrella name “The Independent Group”, whose claim that “politics is broken” was neatly illustrated by its website at their big launch moment.

The seven claim that Labour values no longer represent them, yet they’re happy to remain in the seats that Labour’s manifesto and brand secured for them. Nor do they wish to stay in the party and fight for the values they think it should have. They’ve chosen the most cowardly, meaningless form of protest possible: keep cashing the paycheques but carp from the sidelines.

There are already three MPs elected as Labour but who now sit as nominal “independents” – Frank Field, John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis – and the fact that most people’s reaction to that fact will be “Who?” tells you all you need to know about the impact and power of not-actually-resigning “resignations”. Jeremy Corbyn’s reaction will be a shrug. Oh no, fewer Blairites in his party. Not the briar patch, Brer Fox!

And Theresa May? Theresa May won’t even notice. Why would she? TIG poses no kind of threat to her. The idea that any MPs from other parties are going to change their vote on anything just because there’s a new gang of would-be cool kids in the cafeteria who’ve given themselves a name is laughable in its tin-eared arrogance.

Indeed, mention of Brexit – the only political issue anyone in most of the UK cares about right now – was startlingly conspicuous by its near-total absence from the group’s press conference. Instead there was an almost endless parade of petty personal gripes and grievances in which the Labour Party was decried as a shambolic, racist, anti-Semitic entity posing a mortal threat to the nation’s politics – yet not one bad enough to actually take a stand against at the ballot box.

The 400-odd words we’ve written here already indulge the TIG “rebels” with far more attention and significance than their empty, craven gesture merits. So we won’t waste your time and ours with any more.

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    339 to “The tissue-paper tigers”

    1. Bob Mack says:

      Did we expect anything else from Labour ex MPs?

      Nice to complain whist earning a fat salary and even fatter expenses.

    2. Fixitfox says:

      Another 7 nails rammed into the lid of the Labour Party coffin. It’s time for #Indyref2, or face permanent Tory Westminster Government. I can’t wait to hear Tricky Dicky’s take on this attack on Corbyn. Will he form an ‘Independent Group Scottish Accounting Unit?

    3. HandandShrimp says:

      It isn’t a proper civil war though…unlike those dastardly SNP types who have snipers on every roof top.


    4. Donald anderson says:

      Wot’s their view on Catalonia and Gibraltar?

    5. Josef Ó Luain says:

      In a normal polity they’d sink-without-a-trace. The BBC, however, is likely to elevate the hapless fuckers to the status of a fully-constituted party. Two months after Xmas – what a wonderful gift.

    6. PantsOneFire says:

      I agree they should trigger by-elections but given Brexit happens on the 29th of March, they could make the difference in votes between now and then, I’d rather they were in Parliament until after that date.

    7. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Chuka Umunna might have a Yul Brynner hair cut, but, this new Magnificent Seven singularly lacks a Steve McQueen, James Coburn, Charles Bronson, or Robert Vaughan.

      They are more Horst Buchholz or Brad Dexter – the two of the original seven everyone struggles to identify.

    8. starlaw says:

      Why is the raging civil war inside the SNP no longer being reported on, is the MSM spotlight now going to be aimed entirely at the Magnificent Seven.

    9. jfngw says:

      I look forward to the Scottish Independent Unionist Group emerging!

    10. geeo says:

      FMQ’s suddenly becomes the TV highlight of the week after this !!!

    11. jezza says:

      The Seven Dwarfs more like.

    12. Macart says:

      Tories practically spittin’ venom at each other and Labour benches in a bit of a pie throwing contest. Not a peep about ‘civil war’.

      Go fig. 🙄

    13. Clootie says:

      …I think the seven will split!

      Well people of Scotland think about that – Tory governments for at least another decade.

    14. Martin says:

      Less backbone than Reckless and Carswell- a pretty damning epitaph

    15. geeo says:

      @Socrates MacSporran “the magnificent seven” (labour 7) has great connotations pulled from the ‘Magnificent 7′ lyrics by The Clash.
      Ist 3 verses says it all for me..

      Magnificent Seven

      The Clash

      Ring, ring, it’s 7:00 A.M.
      Move yourself to go again
      Cold water in the face
      Brings you back to this awful place

      Knuckle merchants and your bankers too
      Must get up and learn those rules
      Weather man and the crazy chief
      One says sun and one says sleet

      A.M., the F.M. the P.M. too
      Churnin’ out that boogaloo
      Gets you up and it gets you out
      But how long can you keep it up?

      Gimme Honda, gimme Sony
      So cheap and real phony
      Hong Kong dollar, Indian cents
      English pounds and Eskimo pence

      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, give it all you got
      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, yeah

      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, give it all you got
      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, yeah

      Working for a rise, better my station
      Take my baby to sophistication
      Seen the ads, she thinks it’s nice
      Better work hard, I seen the price

      Never mind that it’s time for the bus
      We got to work and you’re one of us
      Clocks go slow in a place of work
      Minutes drag and the hours jerk

      Yeah, wave bye, bye
      (When can I tell ’em what I do?)
      (In a second, maan, alright Chuck)

      Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss
      It’s our profit, it’s his loss
      But anyway the lunch bells ring
      Take one hour, do your thang

      What do we have for entertainment?
      Cops kickin’ gypsies on the pavement
      Now the news has snapped to attention
      Lunar landing of the dentist convention

      Italian mobster shoots a lobster
      Seafood restaurant gets out of hand
      A car in the fridge, a fridge in the car
      Like cowboys do in TV land

      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, give it all you got
      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, huh

      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop, give it all you got, yeah
      You lot, what?
      Don’t stop

      So get back to work and sweat some more
      The sun will sink and we’ll get out the door
      It’s no good for man to work in cages
      Hit the town, he drinks his wages

      You’re frettin’, you’re sweatin’
      But did you notice, you ain’t gettin’
      You’re frettin’, you’re sweatin’
      But did you notice, not gettin’ anywhere

      Don’t you ever stop, a long enough to start
      Take your car outta that gear
      Don’t you ever stop, long enough to start
      Get your car outta that gear

      Karlo Marx and Frederick Engels
      Came to the checkout at the seven on eleven
      Marx was skint but he had sense
      Engels lent him the necessary pence

      What have we got? Yeah, ooh
      What have we got? Yeah, ooh
      What have we got? Magnificence
      What have we got?

      Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi
      Went to the park to check on the game
      But they was murdered by the other team
      Who went on to win fifty-nil

      You can be true, you can be false
      You’ll be given the same reward
      Socrates and Milhous Nixon
      Both went the same way through the kitchen

      Plato the Greek or Rin Tin Tin
      Who’s more famous to the billion millions?
      News flash, ‘Vacuum cleaner sucks up budgie’
      Ooh, bye-bye, bub-bye

      Songwriters: Joe Strummer / Mick Jones / Paul Simonon / Topper Headon

      Magnificent Seven lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group

    16. Arbroath1320 says:


      Only SEVEN?

      You’s have thought they could have waited till another 5 Labour M.P.’s joined then then they would have become the FOURTH party in the House of Commons knocking the Lie Dems down to FIFTH! 😀

    17. HeehawBaws says:

      Nothing to be gained except take a few BBCQT slots from the SNP maybe.

    18. Cassandra says:

      Umunna, Berger and Leslie joined Blair’s New Labour. No wonder they did not feel at home. As did Dugdale and Murray. Murray is such a melt that he would win as the unifying Unionist candidate if he did stand down.

      Will we see a unifying Unionist group in Scotland break away? It would certainly clarify what is important to them.

    19. Dr Jim says:

      The media will likely give them the obligatory 15 minutes for a few days then it’ll be over, it’s not as if they’re really important people like Nigel Farage who’s much more interestingly NOT elected to the HOC

      Maybe the media will ask the SNP if they’re going to join the Tiggers to make a *real* difference to English politics, well they do that sort of thing don’t they, coz well, Scotland pft!

    20. Luigi says:

      The “Magnificent Seven” reminds me of that very old joke about what do you call a bald Chseshire Cat?:

      Yul Grinner.

      Today, Treeza must be purring away, like a Yul Grinner with hair. 🙂

    21. Millsy says:

      Seven more soft tories ? Is this news ?

    22. Clootie says:

      Any bets on a Scottish branch office breakaway…thought not.

      However Labour MPs of a country which unanimously voted to Remain should have been the ones to have split from Brexit Corbyn.

    23. Greannach says:

      If the SDP were the Gang of Four, this crowd of low-fliers must be the Secret Seven.

    24. Luigi says:

      Macart says:

      18 February, 2019 at 11:58 am

      Tories practically spittin’ venom at each other and Labour benches in a bit of a pie throwing contest. Not a peep about ‘civil war’.

      That’s a very good point, Sam. I guess they may just ease off their “SNP Civil War” narrative for a while now. 🙂

    25. mike cassidy says:


      BBC Scotland director defends Question Time against bias criticisms

      Ironically, this headline for a puff piece about their new station is a lie.

      She doesn’t defend the programme against the criticism. Just ignores the criticism.

    26. Clootie says:

      BBC Politics on BBC2 now. We have a politician from the “New Party”. We should know our place right enough. Any bets Chuka will be on QT.

    27. galamcennalath says:

      Their success as a new party (if that is what they are) relies totally on how the BBC promote them.

      The BBC took a group which were way out on the margins and hyped them to a position where they exercised considerable political power – UKIP. IMO if it hadn’t been for the BBC, they would never have had their moment of glory.

      Instead of reporting politics, the BBC has been allowed to mould it.

    28. mike cassidy says:

      These MPs are more like the remade Magnificent Seven.

      Without checking, could you name any except Denzel Washington?

      And Chuka Umunna aint no Big Dee!

    29. msean says:

      Nice to see that a part of the Labour party in England now realises that when a larger entity ignores you,the answer is to…leave. 🙂

    30. Robert Peffers says:

      Are not The London Labour in Scotland Accountancy Unit lot already wrongly claiming to be independent as, “Scottish Labour”?

    31. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Macart @ 11:58,

      Amen to that.

      As for the *real* Labour split, frankly my dears, I don’t give a damn.

      Except the more f-ups from down south, the better. The message about poor governance and across-the-board dysfunction is getting through, despite the media skew.

    32. galamcennalath

      what a brilliant choice of word… “the BBC has been allowed to MOULD it.”

      I have visions of green and black sooty mould growing all over WM, shaped by the BBC.


    33. K1 says:

      And still the guardian’s top headline is ‘seven MPs resign from Labour party’, at the bottom of the headlined piece it literally states that they will ‘sit’ as an independent group.

      I mean seriously how can anyone take these fucking rags seriously, they treat the gp like we are a bunch of ignorant muppets.

      Massive lying headlines across the entire msm and amplified by the BBC, it’s a total abject verifiable lie that these tossers have or will be ‘resigning’.

      Are they now the left’s Lip to the rights Ukip, couldn’t make this shit up.

    34. mike cassidy says:


      Is Chuka Umunna Britain’s first black PM?


    35. galamcennalath says:

      Meg merrilees says:


      Funnily, I did check mold versus mould, spellings and meanings. The interweb seemed confused between UK and US spellings. I opted for mould.

      However, both means do seem appropriate! 😉

    36. Clootie says:

      Cracking line “If you stay in the Labour Party during an illegal War but leave because you don’t like Corbyn, then there is something wrong with your moral compass”

      Good point and applies to most of them.

    37. Cubby says:

      Mike Cassidy @12.21pm

      The only surprise about the BBC and its management like Donalda is that they can keep a straight face when coming out with all that sort of guff.

      The BBC has been and still is the master of propaganda but more and more people in Scotland are seeing through it.

    38. Macart says:

      @Luigi and RJS

      Kinda gives you an insight into double standards applied, doesn’t it?

      And they wonder why both the political class and their meeja chooms aren’t trusted? Could be because we see very little worth trusting.

      Worth a thought for the dears.

    39. Dr Jim says:

      The FM trolls the trollers with her latest statement
      *If you are disillusioned with the Westmister parties and want to be part of a progressive outward looking movement join the SNP* and guess what, they already are joining and tweeting it too

      The only people trolling the FM now are the idiots with handles like *Huggy Bear* *Ruggy Bear* *Buggy Bear* I guess you’ve guessed by now, the clues are there

    40. Dr Jim says:

      @Meg Merrilees

      *Mould* it’s how the BBC grow, like a fungus

    41. Effijy says:

      What a crippling joke corrupt Westminster has become!

      The Tory Gang didn’t need to have an EU referendum but conning the Scottish Referendum was so easy why not try the next con.

      Then Cameron doesn’t like the result so he and Osbourne run off with their ill gotten gains so that a new PM can come in who doesn’t believe in Brexit.

      She promises no general election for 5 years and then has an general election.

      She promises Brexit Means Brexit and a great deal for the UK- Bollocks!

      She promises not withholding information from parliament before being found in contempt.

      She demands there are only 2 choices of her deal or no deal,
      but its proved Brexit can also be called off and the leaving date can be extended.

      She declares that there is no way to return to the EU to renegotiate and now she goes back for the 2nd time in 2 weeks to re-negotiate?

      Labour decided to become the photo copy Tory Party and make fortunes for Tony and Gordon while they bluff their socialist leanings.

      Jeremy gets in as leader as a rank outsider that Labour MPs don’t want as he is a socialist.

      Although the majority of MPs voted against him, the membership voted to retain him?

      As Labour MP’s do, to keep their noses in the trough, they grin and bare it and pick up the cheques.

      On Brexit they back leaving in some fashion but not a fashion that they know of.

      They might stay in a customs union but they don’t know?

      They might hold another referendum but they don’t know?

      Now 10 Labour MPs claim not to be Labour MPs, just MPs on MPs Money.

      Labour asks Scotland to Remember, only a Vote For Labour can keep out the Tories from Westminster, unless its a Labour MP who isn’t a Labour MP, or a Labour MP who doesn’t want Corbyn to be leader,
      or a Labour MP who thinks you should vote Tory to keep SNP out,
      or a Labour MP who thinks you should vote Liberal to keep SNP out

      This tried and trusted formula has seen Scotland attacked by a series of Tory Westminster governments that we have NEVER voted for!
      35 of the last 50 years under Tory Dictatorship with 10 of the remaining 15 years under Red Tory New Lieboar.

      Lets try this Scottish Government of Scots, for the Scot by the Scots!

    42. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      One imagines that most Labour MPs and MSPs in Scotland (Neil Findlay and Richard Who? being obvious exceptions) are closer in thinking to Umunna & Co than they are to Corbyn, yet will any of them split?

      That’s hard to imagine, the cringe among them is so very, very strong.

    43. Luigi says:

      On the related subject of spineless, untrustworthy Labour politicians, Gordon Dimmack rages at more BBC fake news and the complete failure of Labour to even try a shot at an open goal.

      “If Labour cannot keep their promises, they cannot be trusted.”

    44. Artyhetty says:

      Come a General election, where will the fantastic seven get their campaign pounds from? Surely it can’t come from Labour coffers. Can’t wait to see their manifesto.

      Well done Labour, the Tories must be in absolute stitches at your self destruction. Maybe it’s all been done by design, convenient for some.

      This from Wikepedia. ‘Policies included support for a second referendum on Brexit, social market economy, freedom of press, environmentalism, and devolution and localism’.

      Past tense already. Makes sense lol!

      ‘Support for Localism’, is that meant to be the same as devolutionism.

      They have nearly 30k of followers on twitter. They are being given a platform by the daily rags. Seven of them, not seventeen, not thirty five, but seven troughers distracting the people from an oncoming, out of control off the tracks train that is Brexit. Handy.

    45. Luigi says:


      Never mind the oncoming Brexitmagedon. The BBC now has a far more interesting distraction bit of news:

      “Seven Squirrels leave the Labour Party!”

    46. defo says:

      Mandy and Miranda will see them clear, funding wise.

    47. Luigi says:

      At least the BBC and the tory press won’t have to hide behind the Brexit tumbleweed for a couple of days. Hours of airtime and hundreds of pages will now be set aside to ensure that we all know that seven Labour nonentities jumped ship. “Corbyn is doomed!”. They will scream.

      The perfect distraction. Treeza purrs preciously. 🙂

    48. Robert Louis says:

      And while this all happens, the clock just keeps on ticking, as the ‘united’ Kingdom gently slips down the plughole…

      Scotland needs out of this shambles ASAP.

    49. Robert Peffers says:

      Now would you believe?

      Just got this news item from Radio Scotland’s website,

      Ian Murray will not join the seven MPs who have quit Labour, despite his criticism of Jeremy Corbyn.
      1 hour ago
      From the section
      Scotland politics.

      I mean could anyone have ever imagined that in their wildest dreams?

    50. wull2 says:

      It used to be one squirrel, now it is seven squirrels, they used to be red squirrels but they have changed their coats meantime.

    51. Robert Louis says:

      RP at 1117pm,

      ach Iain Murray plays the house unionist (union jack suit an all), here in Morningside, where they know the tories can’t get elected. He is no more a socialist than I am a prop forward for Scotland.

      A general waste of space.

    52. Gary45% says:

      A party name??
      The UK Zionist Party.

    53. Liam says:

      What are the BBC apologising for the open mic “we’re fucked” comment for?

      It’s the only honest thing they’ve broadcast in years!

    54. admiral says:

      Ian Murray MP: Independent did you say? No thanks! Better Together!

    55. Confused says:

      this could be a 12 dimensional chess move to soak up the UKIP vote
      will tommy robinson be joining them

    56. ronnie anderson says:

      I never caught all of Kezia’s interview but apparently labour are a broad church ? is what do we call those x labour MPs Latter Day adventurists lol.

    57. Breeks says:

      I’m curious… well, only curious in a ”couldn’t care less” kinda way.. but this Labour Antisemitism…

      Is it thought crime? Or has Labour actually done anything that is materially anti-Jewish? If so what? It’s honestly slipped my attention.

      Is there a legitimate grievance here for Jewish people? Or is it just string pulling / muscle flexing from powerful lobbies and financial backers who didn’t much like the idea of Tony Blair getting his collar felt for war crimes?

    58. Clootie says:

      Ian Murray of the Union Flag suit. The UF is way more important than the Red Flag to him

    59. Breeks says:

      And bearing in mind this is Labour, has anybody actually checked there actually are 7 of them? The real number might be anywhere between 3 and 298.6 million.

    60. I don’t believe there is anything Corbyn or any other leader of Labour could do, that would make any labour politicians here in Scotland, decide to leave the party.

      The money and their career prospects are too important
      To them for that.

      I don’t know about anyone else, but what concerns me,
      In all of this is this, I find a political party that Wants an oath of loyalty from its politicians to the leadership, to be sinister move.

      It smacks of the authoritarianism of Stalin or Hitler,
      Those of us who are members of political parties can and Sometimes do disagree with tactics of the leadership and some policies, of the party we area member of, that’s our right as members in a democracy.

    61. Richard Hunter says:

      People will be wondering how this will affect Scotland and how many Labour M.P.’s will join them. Here’s my hot take: Zero Labour M.P.’s will join them, and here’s why: Scottish Labour M.P.’s are first and foremost careerists. However much they might hate Corbyn, they recognise that the IG is going nowhere and that joining them would be career suicide.

    62. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ronnie Anderson –

      Just as well it’s a broad chruch cause abody’s rolling in the aisles.


    63. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson

      The trouble wae Labours broad church is naebdy likes the meenister

    64. ronnie anderson says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Dr Jim

      Aye but they bastwards ur still taking wages from the congregation , havn’t the baws tae resign & cause a by-election

    65. North chiel says:

      This might knock “ the magnificent seven” off the headlines … “ Japanese car maker Honda to close Swindon plant by 2022”

    66. Dr Jim says:

      It all looks like Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn are dead set on causing Armageddon and to hell with the people because after it they’ll have to vote for one or other of them anyway because England has zero choice of anything else, so win win for Corbyn and May however it goes, they’ll both still be collecting their wages and living nicely

      Two gunfighters drawing their guns and deliberately missing each other because they’re both each others golden goose

    67. Ghillie says:

      It’s a pretty scary state of affairs when ANY MP can be compared unfavourably to a UKIPer.

      This wee rebellion will be a welcome relief to the media – we need to keep a close watch on might be sneaked through under the radar.

    68. Macart says:

      So, UK politics is in full-on self destruct mode. Society is fractured, with more polarised demographics than you can shake a wossiname at. An already damaged economy is about to take a ferocious kicking. Pretty much most historic government institutions are hitting all time lows in the trust stakes and the one glaringly obvious thing missing from all of the above?

      Any sense of responsibility or ownership for all of that by those who had most to do with it.

      That would be the Conservative and Labour parties. Unless someone else has been in charge of the UK for the past fifty years and they didn’t let on. The buck stops with the party of government. The system of government and the practice of politics.

      Their own practises brought the populations of the UK to where we’re at today and not a single one of them has ever apologised. Not one party leader or PM has held their hands up and said ‘Sorry, we got that wrong’.

      The omnishambles we’re looking at today? That’s kinda what happens when you put party before people. When the competition for the chair becomes more important than what you do when get it.

    69. Dr Jim says:

      AFK for a while, going to look out the flags and bunting for Independence day, might even make a start on the pieces (sandbadges) for the posh folk

    70. Macart says:


      Oh Jeez! Reports coming through of Honda thinking of shutting down their manufacturing facility in Swindon by 2022. Possible losses of 3500 jobs.

      (Archive thingy not working on news site)

    71. Daisy Walker says:

      So, as the clock ticks down towards B day, and even English voters realise, ever English LABOUR voters! realise, the only sensible way is to extend A50, Cancel Brexit – and/or Peoples Vote…

      A right wing member of the Labour Party quits and forms a ‘new’ party…. with no clear Brexit strategy.

      And just in time to ‘bury bad news’ re the Honda closure.

      Hmm – I don’t think any of this is happenstance. The left cheek of the establishment arse ensuring the opposition cannot deliver any form of resistance to Brexit – No Deal fall out.

      Does anyone really see Unman? (sorry not sure of spelling) – this extremely ambitious, ruthless, career politician, being part of such a half arsed concept as TIG, unless he’s been re-assured of future glories.

      The Westminster soap opera rumbles on, keeping us entertained, and distracted.

    72. Ghillie says:

      Macart @ 2.50 pm

      Maybe it is time this Westminster government was put into administration.

    73. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m not really into party politics, but I don’t agree with this article at all. If they “claim that Labour values no longer represent them”, then perhaps that’s NOT what was in the manifesto they were elected on, so why should they resign as MPs?

      Perhaps the whole of the rest of the Labour party should resign if it’s true they don’t represent Labour values – as per the manifesto – and it’s the 7 “rebels” plus the 3 others who have the right to stay in the actual Labour Party for the manifestoes the MPs were elected on?

    74. Nana says:


      much wailing has been heard coming from the unionist camp

      The French Government & Foreign Affairs Committee have invited First Minister @NicolaSturgeon to Paris. She will address the Assemblée Nationale committee & meet European Affairs Minister @NathalieLoiseau on Tuesday, & open the new @ScotGovFrance Office in the capital.

    75. manandboy says:

      Shame it hasn’t dropped for the majority of No voters.

      “I’m English & to my eternal shame had never realised exactly what the reality of Scotland’s relationship with England within the UK was. I now totally understand & support the desire for Scottish independence if Brexit occurs and a total review of the power balance if it doesn’t! “

    76. Capella says:

      Umpteenth relaunch of the SDLP as Michael Heseltine once said.

      As night follows day, if a left wing politician somehow manages to lead the Labour Party, the Fabian types flounce out under one pretext or another claiming to represent the “centre ground”.

      Unfortunately, the spectrum has swung so far to the right in England that Mussolini would probably claim to represent the “centre ground” in BREXIT Britain.

      To quote another old lefty, Tony Benn, the “Duchesses will be kissing their hands”.

    77. auld highlander says:

      Don’t you just love those here today and gone tomorrow politicians.

      and the latest news……….

    78. North chiel says:

      “Ghillie@ 0336 pm “ , best comment of the day”

    79. Ghillie says:

      Hmmm That is an interesting take on it all Yesindyref2.

      Where does the honesty lie? Or where do the lies lie?

      Can you check that out, the Labour rebels’ stance against the original Labour party Manifesto?

      The entire clusterbourach playing out at Westminster is a huge pigs’ breakfast.

      All as clear as mud –

      EXCEPT that Scotland should be Independent and running its own affairs like a normal and healthy Nation!!!

    80. Macart says:


      Long past time. 😎

    81. manandboy says:


      Calls for:

      Compulsory Code of Ethics for tech companies overseen by independent regulator
      Regulator given powers to launch legal action against companies breaching code
      Government to reform current electoral communications laws and rules on overseas involvement in UK elections
      Social media companies obliged to take down known sources of harmful content, including proven sources of disinformation
      Further finds that:

      Electoral law ‘not fit for purpose’
      Facebook intentionally and knowingly violated both data privacy and anti-competition laws

    82. Not Convinced says:

      It could be argued that the people in the constituencies those seven represent are entitled to have at least *some* representation in Parliament as we approach the terminal phase of the UK’s membership of the European Union. If they, in pairs, did decide to resign (not that MPs can resign from a technical POV) then the period until the resulting by-elections occurred might run past the 29th March.

      The “Carswell Doctrine” is a pretty new development in UK politics and, I would argue, is not yet the established way that things are done. (Plus I bet neither Carswell nor Reckless would have resigned if they had any real doubts about getting re-elected.)

      The more interesting thing here IMHO, is that all of the seven are from seats representing English constituencies. If any of them had been from Scotland I feel it might have been worth the SNP having someone gently quiz them about whether they wanted to join.

    83. yesindyref2 says:

      Tut tut, Sturgeon should get on with the day job!


    84. Ghillie says:

      Oooh North Chiel =) I’m blushing!

      Nana @ 3.36 pm Isn’t our First Minister just brilliant =)

      I love that Nicola Sturgeon is so respected, well liked and listened to outwith the UK.

      But she has been working at this so hard for Scotland, quietly visiting, speaking and joining in, in countries all around the World and especially in Europe and the Northern countries.

      NS is one of our greatest embassadors, even in some ways, Scotland’s best export.

    85. Bill says:

      TIG, as in the welding technique that requires an inert gas to complete the process.

    86. yesindyref2 says:

      I know 🙂

      It would be funny all the same. But sadly probably the correct thing to do considering Corbyn’s and Labour’s complete guddle over Brexit, and letting the TGories off the hook.

    87. Ghillie says:

      Bill, that sounds rude!

    88. jezza says:

      Re, Honda closure:-

      Honda is planning to close its plant in Swindon with the loss of more than 3,000 jobs.

      Local Tory MP Justin Tomlinson confirmed the news, insisting that the decision “is based on global trends and not Brexit as all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021.

      Nothing to do with Brexit,,,aye right!!!

    89. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      manandboy @ 15:37,

      Some mutual sympathy is a good thing. It’s tough being a Remainer in England right now, since they’re not fortunate to have a party like the SNP to vote for.

      Say what you like about Umunna & Co, it’s hardly any wonder that Brexit may finally be bringing about a realignment of politics down south. It may be “too little too late”, but whatever happens, for indy it’s all grist for the mill.

      Ever more evidence for the doubters that self-management is an unavoidable necessity now.

      What’s not to like…?

    90. desimond says:

      Shocked with Kate Hoey not getting a mention for breaking the whip…how shes recognised as a Labour MP no-one knows!

      ( sorry cant ause archive)

    91. Ghillie says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 4.03 pm

      That’s true and just it.

      This wee Labour rebellion (which could be a fatal crack in the dam with much much more yet to come) justifiable though it may be, is possibly a dangerous distraction from what is really going on quietly under the radar in Westminster.

      Fun as this is,

      There were some 600 thingies to ratify before B Day, 400 of which, I believe have already gone through (what exactly?! ALL of which WILL have an impact, probably NOT good on everyone’s lives throughout the UK)

      And even though I know that some of this is being picked up by our dilgent SNP MPs (ie Philippa Whitworth questioning that pharmacists will get to change meds on prescription WITHOUT consulting your doctor! because of shortages)

      And I do expect that Joanna Cherry is watching it all like a hawk.

      But WE are pretty much unaware of what is being railroaded through Westminster during these days or distractions and kicking the can down the shortening road.

    92. katherine hamilton says:

      Re the Swindon announcement and the recent move of production of the X-Trail from Sunderland to Japan.
      Don’t know any of the detail, but could this be linked to the recent EU-Japan trade deal? Tarriff free trade. Like wot we used to have pre March 29th.

      I suppose Toyota will be next.

    93. Hamish100 says:

      Wullie rennie tolead new party. You heard it here first.!

    94. The truth is a lot of the members of the Labour Party should never have been in the party they are not socialists but Tory plants they are only there to hold the party back from bringing about change to help the poor I mean labour members becoming lords dames etc., talk about hiding in plain sight ??? And they have the cheek to run down a party that has done more for the poor than they have ever done or would do namely the SNP and what the unionists should remember is that Scotland is the golden goose and that the golden goose can fly away home

    95. Ghillie says:

      Katherine Hamilton 4.29 pm

      That sounds plausible!

      Nana @ 4.20 pm

      What? The labour ‘rebels’ considered asking RUTH DAVIDSON to lead their new ‘centrist’ party?

      Ok. For that wee gem I refer folk back to Rev Stu’s earlier article, ‘Labour rebels launch new party’.

    96. Nana says:


      Things are getting crazier by the day or maybe it’s just me?

    97. jezza says:

      katherine hamilton 4.29pm

      Brilliant spot Katherine.

      And Dyson have also moved to the area.

    98. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Nana 3.36: great news about the FM’s Paris trip and opening the ScotGovParis Office.

      *Holds ear-piece to ear for effect*

      This just in on Britnat reaction: “Zut alors!”, meaning in your actual French, “I pure hate yon Sturgeon!”

    99. Clootie says:

      I wonder how many jobs would have came to Scotland if only more people had voted YES in 2014.

      The U.K. Have only managed to drag us out of the EU thanks to Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson and whichever muppet happened to be in charge of the Labour Branch Office.

      Anyone still think Westminster is the answer to Scotlands future?

      Wait until that big Tory majority get into full swing after the next GE.

    100. Ghillie says:

      Not at all just you Nana.

      Things are whirling utterly out of control and have been for some time.

      Thank God Scotland has been graced with some of the greatest minds and politicians and switched on and caring population of all time at this time.

      Scotland WILL win free.

      And I hope, and actually do trust, that once we are secure in our Independence we will look to support those who are suffering the fallout of this hateful escapade.

    101. Nana says:

      getting off to a great start

      Angela Smith MP, who few had ever heard of before she split from Labour today, gestures at Asian woman live on air and tries to call her “funny tinged” until her brain revolts… watch and weep as @AyoCaesar asks “funny what?” Surely Chuka must now suspend 1/7 of his MPs?

    102. Nana says:

      Apology from Angela Smith mp

      I’m really sorry that I misspoke earlier on Politics Live – here’s my statement.

    103. Cactus says:

      Evenin’ Clootie ~

      “Wait until that big Tory majority get into full swing after the next GE.”

      That’s a good point and worth further reflection and consideration… a Tory ‘government’ for at LEAST the next 10-year decade!

      Aye imagine many voters in England would only ever vote Tory in order for them to TRY to “keep-a-hold” of Scotland in their one-sided pettifogging ukUnion.

    104. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana Ah hope Nicola hiz a trade deal wie the French tae bring back the Onion Johnnies cause they british wans ur shite feking ruin the taste of the mince an alot of that being talked today , mair power tae ye Nicola .

    105. Bill Hume says:

      Yes Cactus (@5:17) and with the Labour Party in such disarray, that could be tomorrow, next week or next month.

      We must be ready.

    106. jezza says:

      Re, Labour resignations.

      David Milliband always had visions of returning to UK politics as the leader of a new centrist party.

      This could be his opportunity, with the backing of Tony Blair.

      The return of the Messiah.

      The old guard will be at the back of all this .

    107. Just a point of fact,

      a Member of Parliament is elected as an individual not a member of a party,

      you vote for the person not the party,

      also, a Member of Parliament can`t resign his/her seat.

    108. Nana says:

      @Tinto Chiel excellent translation skills Tinto 🙂

      @Ronnie, Allo Allo

    109. jezza says:

      34 pathetic soles picked up in a small boat off the coast of Dover.

      The racist English Brexiteers are furious that their aircraft carrier HHS Queen Elizabeth wasn’t sent to the area to blow the bastards out of the water.

      After all it was built to protect the people of engurland
      from foreign invaders’.

    110. sandy says:

      Blair Paterson @ 4.31 pm.

      Punctuation:- Somewhat better. Slight improvement noted. Only had to read twice to understand. Room for improvement still required, tho’.

      Please, please download “Grammarly”. Many of your contributions are of a salient nature but at times can be misconstrued by some.

    111. sandy says:

      Anybody got a list of international companies that will remain in the UK, or rUK after Brexit (or Engexit)?

    112. yesindyref2 says:

      I seriously reckon the Russians put some funny junk in the Westminster water supply.

      Genetically programmed not to affect the SNP of course.

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      I love this comment from that apology twitter thing:

      It’s too late. It’s institutional.

      They’re already unelectable. It’s absolutely true because I read it in the Daily Mail.


    114. Robert Peffers says:

      The London Labour in Scotland MPs are not going to leave the Labour Party. They were overheard talking among themselves and they had a show of hands to find out if any of then were anti-simmit and concluded that as Scotland is colder than London they are all in favour of simmits, wooly hats and red long johns.

    115. Tinto Chiel says:

      Fanx, Nana @5.37. I pure done ma O-Grade French 😛

      Listening to Pravdasound 4 while making the tea, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry (given the dreadful consequences for workers’ families) at the local Swindon MP’s apparent shock and incomprehension at Honda’s decision, despite Evan Davis playing him the company’s CEO exact warning a year ago of the consequences of a possible no-deal Brexit. Then later in the report there was distinct growing resentment (to my ears at least) against Japan.

      Most folk on Wings have known for two and a half years where all this was going and yet to those ablaw the dyke it’s somehow an amazing development.

      *Shakes head in disbelief*

    116. yesindyref2 says:

      I’ve got a blank sheet of A5 if that helps. Would A6 be better?

    117. Nana says:

      @yesindyref2 I hadn’t seen that comment 🙂

      They’re all mad I tell ye

      @Tinto One of the prominent leavers had this to say in 2015 in response to a warning in

      That idea that car manufacturers might disinvest after we leave the EU? It’s a – what’s the word? – oh yes. Lie.

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      You get some great comments on these threads. I think previously serious political pundits have given up and turned to comedy. Much better! We can all laugh laugh laugh as the good ship Brexit goes down by the bows taking us all with it.

      It was fun while it la… glug st… glug …ed glug glug splutter.

    119. Nana says:

      Gings my stubby fingers

      Reply to Tinto should have been

      One of the prominent leavers had this to say in 2015.

      That idea that car manufacturers might disinvest after we leave the EU? It’s a – what’s the word? – oh yes. Lie.

    120. Cubby says:


      You could have suggested a paragraph break or two. Or maybe the hardline approach of not to post at all.

    121. t42 says:

      Blair wants Chukka as PM, so a coalition party that believes in dinosaurs and supports remain gets him to deputy PM.

    122. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      jezza @ 17:40:

      34 pathetic soles picked up in a small boat off the coast of Dover.

      That’s not very great inshore catch by Peterhead standards. And mackerel is tastier, I always reckon. =grin=

    123. HandandShrimp says:

      Struggling to care much about Labour’s problems. Independence for Scotland looks more and more like the sane bigger picture than the daily crazy cuts in Westminster.

    124. jezza says:

      Robert J. Sutherland 6.29pm

      Cod help us !!!

      Boom boom !!!

    125. frogesque says:

      @Scot Finlayson :5.29

      Actually there is an archaic procedure for an MPs to resign their seats.

      Nothing in WM is straight forward!

    126. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, Nana.

      I think we both know who the liars are.

      Macart often makes the point about the terrible human damage these unprincipled and venal types are causing and will cause.

      And all enabled by the dreadful UK media.

      *Gnashes gums impotently*

    127. Cubby says:


      I think she’ll join the DUP in future. She seems to like orange sashes.

    128. yesindyref2 says:

      Okey-doke, just to monopolise the tea-time slot on Wings, here’s an interesting bit of news:

      I often found working and travelling in parts of Europe that they had a higher opinion of Scotland than many in Scotland did, and taking into account our adaptability through need – think of Thatcher demolishing heavy industry and Scotland shrugging its shoulders and building Silicon Glen and now Life Sciences, sustainability, environmental energy, slowly into decomissioning and so on, and add to that the French Consulate ready for full Embassy in Edinburgh and Sturgeon’s very high profile activities in France, I have my own theories about this, and they’re GOOOOD ones 🙂

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      I honestly think that much of the rest of the world specially the EU are quite pissed off with Scotland being so slow and painful making our own destiny and wishing we’d just make our minds up and get on with it.

    130. jezza says:

      There is only two topics that interest us and they are Brexit and IndyRef2.

      All others are almost meaningless,,,with the likes of Labour’s Anti-Simmit problems (Robert Peffers) and some wee pregnant London burd who is trying to get back to Engurland.

      Talking of said wee burd,,,once she sees the state Engurland will end up in after Brexit, she would probably have been better off staying in Syria with her child.

    131. geeo says:

      Found another fitting set of lyrics for the new Independence Group of 7.

      What better title for a ‘new party’ in the making.

      Incubus -by Marillion.


      When footlights dim in reverence to prescient passion forewarned
      My audience leaves the stage, floating ahead perfumed shift
      Within the stammering silence, the face that launched a thousand frames
      Betrayed by a porcelain tear, a stained career

      You played this scene before, you played this scene before
      I the mote in your eye, I the mote in your eye
      A misplaced reaction

      The darkroom unleashes imagination in pornographic images
      In which you will always be the star, always be the star, untouchable
      Unapproachable, constant in the darkness
      Nursing an erection, a misplaced reaction
      With no flower to place before this gravestone
      And the walls become enticingly newspaper thin
      But that would be developing the negative view
      And you have to be exposed in voyeuristic colour
      The public act, let you model your shame
      On the mannequin catwalk, catwalk
      Let the cats walk, and the cat walks

      I’ve played this scene before, I’ve played this scene before
      I the mote in your eye, I the mote in your eye
      A misplaced reaction, satisfaction

      You can’t brush me under the carpet, you can’t hide me under the stairs
      The custodian of your private fears, your leading actor of yesteryear
      Who as you crawled out of the alleys of obscurity
      Sentenced to rejection in the morass of anonymity
      You who I directed with lovers will, you who I let hypnotise the lens
      You who I let bathe in the spotlights glare
      You who wiped me from your memory like a greasepaint mask
      Just like a greasepaint mask

      But now I’m the snake in the grass, the ghost of film reels past
      I’m the producer of your nightmare and the performance has just begun
      It’s just begun

      Your perimeter of courtiers jerk like celluloid puppets
      As you stutter paralysed with rabbits eyes, searing the shadows
      Flooding the wings, to pluck elusive salvation from the understudy’s lips
      Retrieve the soliloquy, maintain the obituary
      My cue line in the last act and you wait in silent solitude
      Waiting for the prompt, waiting for the prompt

      You’ve played this scene before

    132. Legerwood says:

      “”They’ve chosen the most cowardly, meaningless form of protest possible: keep cashing the paycheques but carp from the sidelines.”” (Quote from the article)

      Aye they are getting their paycheque while 3,500 people, and more besides, lose their jobs in Swindon. Yet that self-indulgent lot are doing hee-haw to address Brexit the root cause of this.

      Just as they did not mention Brexit neither did the BBC 6 o’clock news during their report on the Swindon closure! Some allusions to trade agreements EU-Japan but Brexit not mentioned.

      Interview with relevant Government Minister…nope.

      Let’s see what CH4 news makes of this.

    133. Hamish100 says:

      dear Honda,other car companies, financial services etcetera. When Scotland remains in the EU or EFTA please move you jobs here.

    134. Dr Jim says:

      Honda for Dundee would fit nicely

    135. Dorothy Devine says:

      I see Facebook has been accused of fake news and should be regulated say politicians .

      It reminded me of the Leveson enquiry attempting to deal with the print media – what happened to that then????

      I believe it cost a lot of money and David Cameron did not implement the findings.

      So it’s OK to have gibberish and total untruthful ,unchallenged drivel as long as it is in the mainstream for the gullible and daft to consume .

    136. Heart of Galloway says:

      Nana@3.36 thanks for that link.

      So, Nicola heading to France next? Manifique! Far more going on here than the opening of another Scottish foothold in Europe.

      All of us hoping that the SNP leadership in London and Edinburgh are preparing to throw a grapnel hook out to Europe are about to have their prayers answered.

      Scotland right now stands at 70 per cent in favour of EU membership. Our overwhelming wish to remain will be upheld.

    137. Robert Peffers says:

      @jezza says: 18 February, 2019 at 6:32 pm:

      … Robert J. Sutherland 6.29pm
      Cod help us !!!
      Boom boom !!!!”

      Yeah! That first pun was a bit flat, right enough!

      It floundered a wee bit too.

    138. Cubby says:

      The secret SNP plan. Scotland is to be part of France. Best start swotting up on my French.

    139. jockmcx says:

      Tried too watch indycargordonross via nana’s link, i can
      never figure out how to get to the vid from the link.
      do u have to sign in to facebook? (i’m not gonna do that)or
      are his vid’s posted elswhere?..thanks for help anyone!


    140. James Barr Gardner says:

      BTW Remember the Gang of Four Bill Rodgers, Shirley Williams, Roy Jenkins, David Owen what happened to them ?

      They all got ERMINE coats !

      The Gang of Seven will no doubt be rewarded in the coming years.

      Just another farce by the City of London elites.

    141. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2 at 6:38 pm.

      You typed,
      “slowly into decomissioning and so on”

      Have a skeck o’ this:-

    142. Nana says:


      Just scroll down the page until you see the big screen and click on it to start.

    143. ronnie anderson says:

      Cubby sacre bleu mon ame toot toot thats ah C4 coming

    144. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi jockmcx.

      EVERYBODY can access YouTube or Vimeo. IMHO, it makes more sense to upload videos to either or both of them, rather than putting them on Facebook exclusively.

      Once they’re on YouTube or Vimeo, they can easily be shared on FB pages but, at least, people, who on principle avoid Facebook, can access the videos.

      Just a mild rant…

    145. Legerwood says:


      Thank you for all your links. Hope your hospital visit went OK.

    146. galamcennalath says:

      Twitter… Craig Murray @CraigMurrayOrg

      ” I am willing to accept bets of any amount that the Corrupt Seven MPs get more TV time between now and their disappearance at the next General Election, than all 35 SNP MPs – with at least a ratio of 2 to 1 on BBCQT and the R4Today programme. “

      … seems a safe bet! He won’t have any takers.

    147. @frogesque,

      thanks for that,

      de facto you can surrender your seat,

      but de jure you cannot resign.

    148. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Je T’aime moi non plus, sur la pont D’Avignon, avec injection de carburant, injection de carburant… Robert Planet n’a jamais mis la main sur moi!


    149. Fossil records show it was common for expiring dinosaurs to defecate.
      Seems the dying Labourosaurus just dropped a seven kilo one.

    150. jezza says:

      When they speak of the “UK car industry”, they are surely talking about the “English car industry”.

      Them little Englanders urnae daft ye know, they look after there own first and if there are any dregs then Scotland Wales and N Ireland can fight over them.

      But to date there have been no dregs’.

    151. Davie Oga says:

      Scott 5:29

      Carswell resigned his seat when he defected to UKIP, triggering a by-election which he subsequently won. Regardless of his politics, he had a bit of honour and conviction in what he did.

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      And added to this I think it was you posted about, and other things

      Dundee’s got a good and perhaps great future ahead of it – well-deserved too. It seems a YES vote didn’t do it any harm …

    153. sandy says:
      @ 5:54 pm
      Anybody got a list of international companies that will remain in the UK, or rUK after Brexit (or Engexit)?

      There’s that preserve company in Kent that’s hoping to shift tons of gooseberry jam to Namibia, post – Brexit.

    154. yesindyref2 says:

      Quoi? Quelle? Qui? Ca va! Eh bien.

      Je te plumerai la tête.
      Je te plumerai la tête.
      Et la tête ! Et la tête !
      Alouette, Alouette !

      Alouette, gentille alouette,
      Alouette, je te plumerai.

      Nous avons besoin d’une version Ecosse.

      There is of course already an SRU version …

    155. Dan says:

      @ Donald Urquhart

      I heard rumours a few hardcore leaver car enthusiasts were in a shed busily knocking out the new Allegro model! (or Allergy as I preferred to call them…)

      Word on the street is that the only reason we have such an abundance of oil around our shores is because it leached into the ground having previously pissed out the engines of all the “quality” British built automotive products over the years.

    156. jockmcx says:

      Thanks for the reply Nana…but when u say big screen do
      u mean something i would recognize as a video box,cause if u
      do it is never there when i go to one of your indycargordonross facebook links. I have tried with firefox and internet explorer,all i see is comments for older posts
      by gordon……..frustrating..

      Everything else u do is great and much appreciated!

      Maybe i’m just thick…lol

    157. jockmcx says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      thanks for your reply,yes i don’t get why he does’nt put
      them on utube first, his latest one on there is 4 days old.

      I wonder if lots of people are missing his vids.

    158. defo says:

      Dan. Wasn’t the ‘Egg roll’ famous for spontaneously losing a front wheel?
      Maybe it’s the ‘Maxi’ i’m thinking of.

    159. yesindyref2 says:

      I can’t view any of these videos posted on twitter, and even some on youtube these days. Needing to keep Windows XP and not so far being able to get an emulator to work on my AMD Windows 7 Box, and not able to upgrade Java / whatever, I’m doomed!

    160. Al Dossary says:

      So begins the first strike of Labour Friends of Israeel. With 80 or so Labour MP’S members of the group this looks like the opening shot across the bows. There could be more to follow IMHO.

      How the hell we have allowed an Israeli Lobby group to influence over 50% of UK MP’s (80 in LFI, 240 in CFI) I will never know. Corrupt, Troughing bastards that they are to a man/woman, all of them.

      Judas Iscarot would be hard pushed to bear this lot in the betrayal stakes.

    161. Willie says:

      We may snipe at the absolute shambles that is Labour but the bigger issue is that they will never form a UK government.

      And that is an even bigger problem. Condemned to eternal Tory rule, England’s dispossed will in ever greater numbers march to the right.

      A fascist nation riven with hatred is what beckons on our doorstep. This makes the case for independence even more pressing.

      With the last vestiges of the sham that was UK democracy fading the time has to be now.

    162. Nana says:


      Scroll down until you see Gordon sitting in the car. If you click on the screen it should work.

      I asked a couple of pals to check and see it works for them and yes it does, I’ve just this minute checked again myself and it’s working fine.

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      Not sure, Maxis were known for subframes if I remember rightly. Did have a front wheel collapse on a moggie minor luckily at 5mph. And a bonnet fly up over the windscreen as I was overtaking loads of cars and lorries in the outside lane of the M6 heading south at well over the supposed top speed (normal engine but with a standard tolerance of one thou inch I’d smoothed everything out and just correctly tuned the thing). Manged to split a crankshaft same car across the plate doing a mile post measured **mph almost an *** 🙂


    164. yesindyref2 says:

      Top speed 68 mph my backside.

    165. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dan: the Allegro? Oh dear God! Possibly the most boring car in the world.

      Reminds me of the Morris Ital, supposed to have Japanese-style reliability and Italian good looks but somehow got them round the wrong way. If a car were Reginald Maudling…

      *Rocks back and forth*

      “It’ll be ok, ok, ok…..”

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      Did you guys and gals not read CameronB’s cites and quotes in the Rev Stu article titled, “The Harvesters”?:-

      If attention had been paid there is much more going on behind the scenes and only a few small hints have leaked out.

      The Scottish Law Lords challenge on the Scottish People’s legal sovereignty in the UK Supreme Court went unchallenged by Westminster.

      CameronB’s comments show that:-

      Parliamentary sovereignty was removed from British constitutional law in 1991, (see CameronB Brodie comments and cites in Rev Stu’s Article, “The Harvesters”. In 1991 the Spanish Government and the Spanish fishing fleet brought a case against the Westminster Government,

      To cut a long story short – The Spanish initially lost their case in the UK court and took it to the European Court of Justice and won it.

      In plain English they claimed that Westminster had illegally excluded the Spanish fishers from UK waters on the grounds of their nationality – thus a proven breach of the international Human Rights laws that the UK was a signatory to.

      This victory, as usual in the UK, was effectively buried by Westminster with the aid of their propaganda wing, the MSM and BBC. None the less the law stood corrected and the Spanish continued fishing in UK waters ever since.

      This, however, exposed the little matter of the legal sovereignty of, “Elizabeth Regina in Her United Kingdom Parliament”, as a false legal premise.

      i.e. The Queen, and her parliament do not have legal sovereignty over the UK and The Treaty of Union states that The only two kingdoms that are partners in The United Kingdom have their own Rules of Law and they must remain forever independent of each other. Also the UK is signed up to the international Human Rights laws that basically state the people are intimately sovereign.

      Now Nicola has, more than once, been to The United Nations, The European Parliament and many meetings with EU Member states leaders.

      I have no doubts that what was said in private between her and those World Leaders was not a conversation about whether Rangers or Celtic were the best team in Glasgow.

      The Law of Scotland is based upon the people being legally sovereign. The Treaty of Union only has two legal partner Kingdoms and states Scotland’s people are legally sovereign and the ECJ recognises that the People, not either the Queen or her parliament are legally sovereign in Westminster and the EU rules that EU boats have legal right to fish UK waters and the UK had to give it they had legal right.

      Nicola has paid many visits to World and EU institutions, leaders and parliaments – do wingers really thing Nicola was only having wee jollies at taxpayers expense?

      Another wee clue. Why did the French Government buy one of the most prestigious buildings in Edinburgh to become a large French Embassy in Scotland?

      Nicola is far too astute as a lawyer and as a First Minister to have been wasting her time.

      The truth is that the UK Supreme Court had to admit that neither the Queen or her parliament have legal sovereignty and the ECJ holds that to be the legal situation and when the smelly stuff collides with the ventilation equipment, that will be the decision of both the EU Parliament and the World will uphold their decision.

      The UK is a union of two kingdoms and one has voted to remain in the EU while the other wants out – and that is what the people, not the governments want. Solomon would not be hard pressed to rule that everyone in the dispute gets what they want.

      Scots remain, Kingdom of Englanders leave – the EU retains Scotland as the legacy member kingdom and the World goes along with it. Go Read CameronB’s quotes and cites.

      There is your proof that Scotland has a cast iron legal case for independence – PROVIDING THAT THE SOVEREIGN PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND CAN BE LEGALLY SHOWN TO WANT THAT.

    167. yesindyref2 says:


    168. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I note that BBC Scotland tonight is dominated (again) by three hours of live English soccer. The sum total of Scottish input in the 36 hours of TV output on BB1 and BBC2 is the I hour made up of three Scotland Todays. There is no such thing as on TV as BBC Scotland. Why do we put up with this?

    169. Cactus says:

      There be many tissue-paper animals…

      Though they’re only guid for yer nose or arse (Unionist politicians):

      The stain of ‘Scottish’ Labour.

      TIG… “you’re het”.

    170. yesindyref2 says:

      Whenever that picture is on an article and I look at those eyes I think “There’s a YES voter”.

      *shakes head*

      Probably one of the daftest things I’ve ever said.

      Anyways since I’m OT, Railroad Tycoon 3 building it in Scotland and only down to Carlisle, Newcastle, Middlesborough and Leeds to lift their loot and flog them stuff, a reverse of the way it actually was, running it quickly through 10 years from 1834 has Edinburgh, Dundee Glasgow and even Ayr bigger than London which has no trains on my network, with Aberdeen and Inverness growing nicely.

      True to life? Probably. Scotland was kept back with lack of proper rail and road.

    171. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi defo at 8:01 pm.

      You typed,
      “Maybe it’s the ‘Maxi’ i’m thinking of.”

      Back in 1976/77, as resident disco in the “Bowlin’ Alley” (Dundee Institute of Technology Students’ Union), we were contracted to do the graduation ball at a hotel in Arbroath.

      We were in the habit of hiring a Sherpa van from Swan National, because our speakers fitted neatly between the rear wheel arches, with all the other gear on top.

      Onnyhoo, that evening, the Sherpa hadn’t been returned and we were offered a Maxi. We managed. All the gear in the back, Pete the Camera driving, with me in the passenger seat with Jim the roadie sitting on my lap.

      A bra’ night though!

    172. jockmcx says:

      Thanks nana,your my hero,i was going bananas trying to find
      that video,with your first links the best i could do was
      scroll down and click on the comments link wich opened a page
      with the video of gordon sitting in the car…but if i clicked on the video it sent me to a ‘sign up or sign in page’

      Your link at 8.21pm worked perfectly,am going to make a cuppa
      and and watch it now.
      Thank you very much for taking the trouble,thank you.

    173. @Davie Oga,

      Douglas Carswell was made, by Chancellor of Excheque, `Steward of the Manor of Northstead`,

      the position of `Steward of the Manor of Northstead` is a procedural device to allow Members of Parliament give up their seat,

      if they make you `Steward` you receive a Gov wage which MP`s are not allowed so you automatically relinquish your right to be an MP,

      Members of the House of Commons are forbidden from resigning.

      Carswell also ,later, dumped UKIP and became an Independent without a by- election.

    174. dakk says:

      Anent The Independent Group.

      I have thought for some time the ‘tinted’ one as a member of same group might call him,was going to be annointed as a leader of a gov of national unity(after a VONC in gov) by the deep state to offer an alternative to Brexit.

      Beware more more Labour and Tory rebels in the coming days.

      I know I’m flying a very outlandishly embellished kite here,but the britnat deep state will know what’s at stake here.

      Brexit is an existential threat to their british nationalist hegemony.

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill says: 18 February, 2019 at 8:36 pm@:

      ” … I note that BBC Scotland tonight is dominated (again) by three hours of live English soccer. The sum total of Scottish input in the 36 hours of TV output on BB1 and BBC2 is the I hour made up of three Scotland Todays. There is no such thing as on TV as BBC Scotland. Why do we put up with this?”

      Because Dave, ATM, we are not being given the choice.

      That wee question of a majority of the Sovereign People of Scotland not yet being established as a proven fact is the point.

    176. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah feck it since I’m in the mood.

      For all you soft NOes or even YESses, and undecideds, look out some frank and honest history of Scotland, but also look for the likes of the link BDTT did, which shows a very vibrant Scotland, which runs at probably 99% in comparison to the UK. Not for “grievance” but for what we can become (and should be now already).

      Much of that current vibrancy is since devolution, including with Labour / LibDems who cautiously got it started, but also including one or two previous Secretary of States for Scotland who actually did try and succeed to some extent, for Scotland. Often fighting the cause with one hand handcuffed behind their back.

      Think what Scotland might be now if it hadn’t been kept back and underinvested in all those decades and centuries, and then think what it can become with a Scottish Government having all controls in its hands, investment, currency (of course), all taxes and revenues, and international relations. Perhaps particularly international relations.

      I think if Scotland had been and was properly reported in the media, it would now be 90% YES. Yet all that information IS there, if you look for it.

    177. Cactus says:

      Did ye pick up on that Wings readers…

      You got paper Tigers and paper-tissue Tigg’ers:

      Tis all in the perceived pronunciation.


    178. Clapper57 says:

      They are a group NOT a party….an independent group NOT an independent party….they want other MP’s from their own (previous) party and also from other political parties to join their group by resigning as members of their current political party/s…..obvs then and only then will they become a party …so that the FEW currently in the new group will then become the MANY in the new party. Simples innit.

      Is some Corbyn hating billionaire helping them with funding …so many billionaires to choose from….frankly if I was a billionaire I would be thinking that THEY ( the new group) gave it (Corbyn) one last chance after their previous failed coup but Labour#Corbyn were just too abusive so they needed to walk away….lucky them….not all of us have been so lucky…some of us have had to stay in an abusive relationship ironically thanks to those currently in this newly formed Independent Group…..we too, in Scotland, find ourselves in a broken Union that never has, never will and never can work…. …we too also need to break away from the broken politics of WM…..unfortunately the abusers will not let us go and some of those being abused want it to continue…..if only there was a billionaire who would make a relationship analogy that was in OUR favour and not in favour of the abuser……

    179. Bobp says:

      O/t. I see Honda in swindon according to sky news are to close their car plant with the loss of 3.500 jobs. As swindon voted for Brexit, ain’t that a shame! NOT.

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, one thing more, We’re talking onshore economy, not even including oil.

    181. geeo says:

      Spotted this, not going well for “7 go to the political suicide bridge” if this is true, following on from the hugely ironic racial slur on Politics Live, earlier on.


      “A bit of digging has revealed that the new ‘group which left Labour before they could be deselected is being financed by what can only be described as a shell company called ‘Gemini A Ltd’ formed by Gavin Shuker in January”.

      Then this:


      Ouch !!

    182. geeo says:

      For those that do not click links (9.28pm post above) the article then claims the funding account is registered in Panama…oops !!

    183. jezza says:


      What about that famous Marie Osmond smash hit “Paper Woses”?

      And how did we end up talkin about paper anyway?


    184. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Just put this up for Nicola today. The origin of the auld alliance

    185. So I just went on the BBC news website to see how the new ‘Independent’ party are being reported. It has several subtitles through the article..

      one is “How did it go down with other Labour MPs?”

      Then, “How have other parties reacted?”… with quotations from Lib Dems, Conservatives and UKIP.

      Opinion of third biggest party at Westminster is not mentioned.

      We see what you’re doing BBC.

    186. Cactus says:

      Gaun then jezza… ah cannae find the Lili Von Shtupp version SO here’s another for the so-called-Scottish-Paper-Labourers:

      It had to be either…

      a) Marie
      b) Anita
      c) Connie

      A tissue, a tissue, they awe fa’ doon.

      Paper their cracks!

    187. Capella says:

      Observant SLab voters may now conclude that Labour can never win an election in England, given the massive media attacks, splits and smear campaigns hurled at it. At least, not a Labour party worth electing.

      How long before it is obvious that, unless they want to live under perpetual Toryism, they have to vote for independence.

    188. Robert Kerr says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      I met a French lady engineer in a bar on Islay. Mentioned the Scottish soldiers at the siege of Orleans. She remarked that we go back a long way.
      She was working on renewable energy in Glasgow. I said that the way ahead was subsea turbines but as always technologies need appropriate materials. She thought and then agreed.
      Two disparate threads but I enjoyed. I also enjoyed working in Paris with Technip at La Defense. I enjoyed being Scottish and European. Both matter.

      Le désespoir est un insulte a l’avenir.

    189. Bobp

      re Honda and Swindon.

      Seems that Japan is possibly consolidating car production back in Japan because now they have a trade deal with the EU which was announced last week, they no longer need the bridge into Europe that Britain provided.

      Also seems that the BBC is desperately trying to build up the pathetic 7 labour rebels as a new party.

      Sorry, that’s one for J.K. Rowling and Blair.

    190. geek

      an MP in the new group on BBC R4 just now saying that they have financed themselves up to now. Are inviting donations and if they are large they will declare them. 60,000 visits to their website today apparently

    191. sorry that should read GEEO – blooming’ computer

    192. Cactus says:

      Crowdfunder Marian Sellar said ~

      “I really hope you make it to your target Ken, if Eck Salmond can do it so can you! I Scot magazines a terrific read, if we don’t show support all we’ll have to read in Scotland will be the Peoples Friend.”

      There could be a rush on tomorrow:

    193. Phronesis says:

      ‘These are difficult times for the vast majority of Labour and Conservative politicians, media commentators, political historians and academics studying British party politics and voting behaviour. Influenced by the Labour and Conservative monopolies of government and their duopolistic control of the House of Commons, exponents of the orthodoxy believe that the UK is still somehow a ‘two party system’, where only the bi-polar conflict of the two largest contenders at general elections ‘really’ matters…Many of the same unexamined myths and assumptions of British politics are propagated over and over again by political historians, Labour and Conservative politicians and media commentators. This paper is a call for thought-clearing and by voters and by party activists and leaders in the country, rather than the misleading appearances created by smoke and mirrors in the procedures of the House of Commons or the self-serving, bi-polar rhetoric of the Labour and Conservative parties’

      Dunleavy, Patrick (2005). Facing up to multi-party politics : how partisan dealignment and PR voting have fundamentally changed Britain’s party systems [online]. London: LSE Research Online.

      The WM two –party cartel ( with or without its splinter groups) is a dead man walking. It has colluded with the process of funding and manufacturing dissent to undermine any cohesive mass movement which has now spectacularly back fired on itself. The cartel has not been paying attention to Scotland and her grassroots Independence movement that stretches across all elements of society in Scotland. The social base in Scotland’s push for self-determination is rooted in human rights and democracy and has developed externally to the bi-polar rhetoric of the 2 party system .Remarkably immune to the WM propaganda apparatus it is only a matter of time before Scotland exits for good.

    194. Cactus says:

      We’re almost there iScotland:

      It’s a Leo the Lion FULL moon a comin’ (the last new moon is gone)

      There could be a Rush on right NOW:

      Get closer.

    195. defo says:


      That’s why it was called Maxi !
      An ugly beast, with a fairly big bite under the bonnet.

      Not unlike a No Deal Brexit, as Swindon has found out.
      The tip of the Iceberg which will finally sink Englands imperial adventure.

    196. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Kerr

      “I also enjoyed working in Paris with Technip at La Defense.”

      Me too, on the TPG500 project for BP Shah Deniz in the Caspian, Around 2002/03.

    197. Scottish Steve says:

      This is the mob unionists want ruling over Scotland? Desperate stuff. I see they’re not principled enough to resign their seats though. That would mean their cushy salaries and expenses were at risk. Typical Westminster parasites.

    198. Cactus says:

      iScot land is almost there, we built this here world efterawe.




      =Feel good=

    199. Essexexile says:

      Anything headed by Chukka Umunna should be avoided like the plague. He is the epitome of a self interested, metropolitan politico who’s only aptitude is for self advancement.
      He doesn’t stand for anything of any substance and if he and his band of turncoats didn’t exist, it really wouldn’t matter.
      My bet is that rather than seeing their numbers swell, this group will be vilified from left and right and disappear at the next GE.
      Such is the fate of ‘The people’s vote’ and the threat to indy it represents.

    200. cearc says:

      I took a couple of large goats to the billy in the back of a maxi. (Ah, the days when your passengers didn’t have to wear seatbelts!)

    201. Capella says:

      @ Meg merrilees – are you thinking JK Rowling may be bankrolling this Labour farce? She could at least have written a better script. I listened to R4 at ten. Each of the “insurgents” read out their soundbite like a rehearsal for “Labour – a Study in Tyranny”.

      It was like falling through a time warp to the Soviet Union in Stalinist times. The propaganda is getting so crude. Sounds like the media will keep these people on stage for months to come. Like BREXIT – it will drone on and on.
      Beam me up, Nicola.

    202. Cactus says:

      Yes! Check this out! LOVE it!

      Ahm gonnae have FUN wae this. 😉


    203. cynicalHighlander says:

      ronnie anderson

      WHEN DOES IT ACTUALLY CLOSE ? I have already contributed and will do again if needs must but resources are limited.

    204. Davie Oga says:

      Scott Finlayson 8:49

      Cheers for the education. Very arcane place that one.

    205. Cactus says:

      We OWN midnight:

      Join us for tomorrow.

      Create yer ain!

      Join us +1.

    206. cearc says:

      Nice one, Cactus.

      Looks like I will be able to make it.

    207. Petra says:

      Did anyone else watch BBC Newsnight earlier? It’s getting really scary down south now with yellow vested, Union flegged, Brexiteering racists protesting around England and planning to march and cause absolute havoc in even greater numbers. God help England, in particular the foreigners, if there’s an extension, worse still no Brexit at all. I’m just hoping that some of the scenes will convince the no voting Scots to support Independence and help get us out of this ASAP.

      Oh and Kirsty Wark was taking a look at five newspapers, such as the Mail, The Times and the Guardian. No National in sight.

    208. jezza says:


      I wish it was the “Days left until we leave this stinkin Union” clock that was counting down.

      We all know Nicola is about to make an announcement on the date for IndyRef2,,,we just don’t know when.

    209. Cactus says:

      Excellent news cearc, party times.

      Speaking of timeclock… yer right jezza… we are able to define the title of the event, but as yet, the timescale has yet to be set.

      U can create yer ain dude, see… there is always an option.

      See y’all at oor midnight.

    210. Essexexile says:

      Won’t be that soon Jezza.
      A lot is going to happen in the next few weeks. She won’t want to be overtaken by events.
      Don’t be surprised if there’s no ‘announcement’ before B day.
      Steady as she goes.

    211. Cactus says:

      It’s like iHogmanay ’19 hehe! is callin’ the tunes.


    212. jezza says:


      When we are not expecting it, I think we will hear of a news conference being called by Nicola Sturgeon.

      I think it will take us all by surprise.

    213. Effijy says:

      NuRight and the 7 Dwarfs!

      Has the wicked witch bribed them just like the DUP?

      The Maleficent 7.

      They formed today as the don’t like the party that gave them their jobs, they already apologise for outrageous and ridiculous comments, and they want an 8th Dwarf, with buffalo riding skills, from their arch enemy party to lead them?

      Used to think Monty Python were surreal and hilarious.

    214. Sarah says:

      @Cynical Highlander – iScot fundraiser closes tomorrow around mid-day, I think.

    215. Old Pete says:

      What happened to that SNP civil war, seems to have passed Prestwick by ? However noticed some wee problems for the British National Parties both red and blue, how sad.

    216. Cactus says:

      A new digital countdown clock, ahm SO inspired, it’s SO easy easy.

      A new day For Scotland’19:

      A new tomorrow.


    217. Capella says:

      OT – Gavin Spoilt Brat Williamson was at the Munich Security conference. RT has some fun relaying some of his speech. Mike Pence’s too. Gavin is known to the Russians as UK Minister for War.

      What an embarrassment.

      Munich Security Conference: Gavin Williamson strikes again

    218. Dr Jim says:

      @Petra 11:36pm

      Saw it, ugly, there’s worse going on but they’re not reporting it until they can’t control it then it’ll be all over the news like it’s something that hasn’t been building for ages

      Things are very uncomfortable down south, Scotland doesn’t understand how peaceful it is up here by comparison, some areas of the midlands are powder kegs

    219. jezza says:

      Them and their “UK fuckin car industry” bullshit fake news headlines’ on the BBC and Sky News.

      I might be wrong, but did the last car factory in Scotland not shut down in Linwood in 1980?

      It is the English car industry, not the UK car industry.

    220. cynicalHighlander says:


      Thank you.

    221. Cactus says:

      For your immediate and future reference…

      Here’s is the OFFICIAL countdown to End of UK days:

      THIS is the official countdown clock.

      Please link2 above.



    222. Graf Midgehunter says:


      Nana says: at 8:21 pm

      Try this link
      Yes Nana, this link helps. 🙂

      Like Jockmcx I also have problems with the other Facebook links which ask for logins etc.

      No way am I giving FB anything from me if I can help it.. 🙁

      If you could do it like the above link I’d massage your fingers in the finest creams of the orient…. 😉

    223. jezza says:

      Worker leaving the Swindon factory today told the reporter that “I’m 56 and I’ve got a massive mortgage”.

      Tough shit mate,,,,these things happen.

    224. Capella says:

      @ Old Pete – there is a truce in the SNP Civil War as the combatants can’t remember what the war is about.

      We are studying the Tory and Labour Civil Wars to pick up a few tips on organising skirmishes and press conferences. If the SNP could only arrange a few votes of no confidence and break away parties the hostilities could resume in earnest.

    225. Dr Jim says:

      It’s not even the UK or England car industry, it’s the overseas car industry with some assembly plants in England

    226. geeo says:

      Meg Merrilees@10.15pm

      If Chuka Umuna told me it was 12.15am right now, i would get a 2nd opinion .

      Natural born, habitual liar.

    227. geeo says:

      Give it a rest jezza, you anti english bigot.

      Not one person gives 2 shites about your bigoted views.

    228. Dr Jim says:

      The people of England have made a horrible ghastly mistake out of ignorance because they were lied to just like Scotland has been lied to and we made the mistake in 2014 not voting YES

      Just look around social media now and the only people against Independence for Scotland left are the diehard Rangers Orange Lodge loyal God save the Kweeners and they’ll never change anyway, but fortunately we’ve got them outnumbered now by folk who have seen the light

      It’s only a matter of weeks now

    229. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim at 1:05am …. “Powder kegs.”

      I don’t think it will matter one whit if we Remain or Brexit now. Go with Big T’s deal or whatever. Something hellish has been unleashed down south, a fascist monster, that will lead to curfews, army and cops struggling to control it. Some politicians have said that if an EURef2 is held it will lead to riots. As I see it if they forge ahead with Brexit and unemployment levels go through the roof alone … forget about food prices, medicine etc …. England will be like Bedlam as many of it’s residents are additionally suffering from a post-colonial identity crisis. I just feel heart sorry for anyone who doesn’t have a pasty coloured face and / or don’t speak with an English accent. These nutters, like those on Newsnight, look as though they are gearing up to emulate Kristallnacht. Then again, looking on the bright side, we may find that many decent English people, of all backgrounds, will flee from that country to find safety and sanity in Scotland where they will be made welcome. They threatened us with a hard border in 2014. I say bring it on. We’ll need it.

    230. jezza says:



      What brought that on???

      Remember what the Rev said about harassment???

      And going by your last post, I would call that unwanted harassment.

      And please don’t spend the rest of the night chasing all over the place.

      Hope my message is clear enough for you.

      Witnessed by everyone else on Wings.

      You have serious problems sunshine.

    231. jezza says:


      Any chance of playing some easy listening for our friend geek???

      The guy seems to have a few personal issues that he brings onto Wings with him.

      I don’t know if the guy geek got slapped about as a child and he never got over it or what, but he’s definitely got some serious issues going on inside that napper of his.

    232. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim at 12:29am ….. “They were lied to.”

      What a price to pay and don’t we know it. I just wonder how many of them now, seeing one company leave / shut down after another, wish that they had voted like the Scots? Thought we were ignorant or mad? The MSM is the real culprit in all of this, as was in 2014. They’ve stirred up racist hatred, suppressed the Brexit facts and more than anything didn’t inform the populace that Treeza May could have controlled immigration if she’d wanted to. There was never any need for this at all. The end of an Empire. England in its death throes. All they need now (especially the OO), to push them right over the top, is for Queenie to kick the bucket.

    233. jezza says:

      Dr Jim

      You are absolutely correct, even the English Rolls Royce And the English Jaguar Landrover are foreign owned.

    234. jezza says:

      We are witnessing the self destruction of England.

    235. Cubby says:

      I see our very own Jeremy Corbyn has gone back to his anti English tirades followed by his usual ignorant use of mental health jibes.

      Jeremy Corbyn a very unpleasant character.

    236. jezza says:

      Note to self:-

      Ignore Chubby and geek.

    237. yesindyref2 says:

      The lies people casually put in articles. Here’s one from 2015 (Stephen Bush):

      . . . a deal with the SNP – for a devolved assembly for Scotland – was rebuffed by the Scottish electorate . . .

      No it wasn’t, it WON by 51.6%. It was cheated out of existence.

    238. yesindyref2 says:

      Found that looking at election results on 1974 (Feb and Oct) and 1970 for SNP percentages, and then doing a bit more casual surfing.

      Which of course gets you onto oil:

      Mr. Patrick Jenkin (Wanstead and Woodford)

      By common consent, the oil discoveries off Britain’s Continental Shelf represent an asset of almost incalculable value to our nation. The Department of Energy will shortly be publishing up-to-date forecasts of production, and I have no doubt that these will indicate, depending on what assumptions are made about prices, the likely benefit to the balance of payments and the prospects of this country being self-sufficient in oil. Indeed, the latest evidence suggests that offshore oil could certainly meet all our oil needs by 1980. Only today a Press release from the Burmah Oil Group has indicated a further substantial find of oil in the Ninian field. Self-sufficiency could represent an annual benefit to our balance of payments of sums of £4,000 million, or even higher.

      our nation

    239. yesindyref2 says:

      The other thing from that by the way and what got me into looking at GE elections in Scotland to check my memory, was that in 1970, 74 x 2 and 79, the Liberelas had 3 MPs but shot up to 8 with their marriage to the SDP (gang of 4) in 1983. And carried on going when renamed to the LibDems, in 1992 and on.

      So long-term it’s not wise to write off the not so magnificent 7 just yet.

    240. Liam says:

      Right enough, yesindyref2, but the original Gang of Four who split from Labour in 1982 were heavyweights by comparison:

      Jenkins – former Home secretary Chancellor and President of the European Commission,
      Owen – former Foreign Secretary,
      Williams – Former Education Secretary,
      Rodgers – former Transport Secretary

      and presumably had some influence and pull.

    241. twathater says:

      I don’t do twatter but found this link via Bill Glens faceboak thread on Ronnies link

      this link is hilarious but so true you can post your opinions

    242. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, they were. But there’s another 7 expected next Monday including Liz Kendall and Owen Smith. Who knows, even such expectations might trigger some more.

      Seems to me the SDP had double the effect in Scotland, with SDP-Libs going from 3 to 8 in 1983 gaining 5 compared to the SDP-Lib over the whole UK going from 11 to 23 gaining 12 – i.e. just 7 in the rest of the UK. If the same happened again it could be – interesting – specially if there was a snap GE.

      It could split the unionist party vote maybe perhaps 🙂

      Plus make the Libs more of a force in Scotland which would be different.

    243. Nana says:

      Hugely important thread indicating @sajidjavid is more concerned than he’s been admitting about the severe consequences of a #NoDeal #Brexit for #policing & #security. @theSNP @scotgov @HumzaYousaf & myself have been warning about this for months

      Guardian article linked in the above archived here

      Sepa seal off Polmadie Burn in Glasgow over dangerous levels of cancer-causing chromium

    244. Nana says:

      MP Bill Grant has abandoned us say WASPI women

      D R Collin facing reality of Brexit, a disaster for our fishing communities who have been conned by the Tory Brexiteers

    245. Nana says:

      British supermarkets battle to secure stocks as chaotic Brexit looms

      1/ A few clips from last week’s NI Affairs committee (Implications of the EU withdrawal agreement and the backstop for NI). Here’s @DavidHenigUK’s response to the chair when asked about the feasibility of so-called ‘alternative arrangements’ in place of the backstop.

    246. Nana says:

      1/ The UK and Israel have signed a post-Brexit trade continuity agreement. You need to scroll well down the press release to see that the text rolls over the EU/Israel FTA. Some points.

      Attempt to hustle Japan into a trade deal highlights the problems facing ‘global Britain’

      Irish foreign min @simoncoveney rules out any “keyhole surgery” to the Withdrawal Agreement, and says Ireland will not accept any unilateral exit clause to the Irish backstop or an expiry date.

    247. Nana says:

      Brexit: the news lottery

      If you don’t know what happened to Stephen Travers ( @MiamiShowband ) then read this. There are wider implications and it’s about time people in Great Britain understood what’s happening in Northern Ireland, the extent of the trauma and the dangers

      In this film Cordery lawyers André Bywater & Jonathan Armstrong discuss some of the data protection issues with a hard or no-deal Brexit.

      Man who worked at Honda for 24 years calls #Brexit:

      “idiocy of epic proportions”

    248. Nana says:

      Ending freedom of movement a self-defeating measure – Nicola Sturgeon

      Scotland to step up efforts to keep EU citizens after Brexit, Sturgeon says

      All Europeans who support dialogue, who believe in democracy, human rights, fair justice and the right of nations to be free… we call for your support. We need you. Catalans and democracy need you now. Today we feel the urgent need to act now.

      Indeed, what is going on?

    249. Sinky says:

      Scotsman gets worse with nonsensical article by Kevin Christie this morning regurgitating unionist claims about the 670 page Scotland’s Future white paper in 2013

    250. Nana says:

      Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon – in Paris -says Labour in “meltdown” following resignation of seven MPs. #Brexit

      A thread on no-deal Brexit and coordination of insurance, social security, pension. (Thread)

      Good grief

    251. Nana says:

      Apologies Legerwood, missed your comment last evening. Thank you.

      @Graf Midgehunter
      I will do my best.
      PS I do like Mandarin & Clary Sage hand cream 🙂

    252. Robert Peffers says:

      You just have to laugh. We now are told certain Tory MPs may be about to join, “The new Political party”. How long have we Scottish Independence activists been calling the unionists as just different colours of Tory?

      This new, “Independent group”, prove that Westminster’s claimed two party system is a sham. It has been claimed for years Ye couldna shove a RIZLA fag paper atween ony twa o thaim.

    253. Nana says:

      Japanese company Honda has confirmed it plans to close its factory in Swindon in 2021 with the loss of 3,500 jobs

      Will not archive
      “Is Brexit uncertainty a factor? Almost certainly.”

      This is a comment I’m hearing a lot from Japan experts. Lots of different reasons for individual decisions by Nissan, Sony, Panasonic and others to move but common background is a sense that commitment made by Thatcher about UK as perfect EU outpost no longer applies.

      Looking beyond Westminster procedures, party splits, and other shenanigans, there are only four possible outcomes of the Brexit saga:

    254. Nana says:

      Last link for now, interesting detailed article on Holyrood’s voting system

    255. Breeks says:

      Nana says:
      19 February, 2019 at 7:39 am

      Scotland to step up efforts to keep EU citizens after Brexit, Sturgeon says

      This is why I get bloody annoyed. I allow myself to pacified to a degree that the SNP’s rhetoric has moved on from a Soft Brexit Single Market to actually stopping Scotland being Brexited against it’s will, but then the FM says EU citizens should stay after Brexit!

      What Brexit? The one we’re not allowing to happen???


      Who is lying to me? Are we fighting Brexit or rolling over and allowing it to happen?

      Do you see why I take what the SNP “says” so lightly? I am so fkn sick of this insipid ambiguity. FFS stand firm and defend the godamned Constitutional Sovereignty.

      Politicians, man alive, who the fk invented them.

    256. manandboy says:


      The UK cancelled its membership of the EU in the EU referendum. Theresa May and the British Ruling Class have since then aggressively reinforced that choice. But the British Establishment’s deep-rooted sense of entitlement and its self-conferred right to preferential treatment, arising from its status as a Colonial Power, as well as its self-appointed title of ‘World’s Superior Establishment and Nation’, means that just leaving is, frankly, beneath them, without the gift of ‘special’ consideration by the EU 27 as a mark of recognition and respect.
      Apart from that, there shouldn’t be any problem.

    257. yesindyref2 says:

      That’s not what she’s going to say Breeks, as always the media puts its own spin on things. The National doesn’t always get it right, but it’s better to check there first before blowing a fuse!

      “Those EU citizens, of course, include 7000 French people, who are our colleagues, friends, neighbours and in many cases our family. The Scottish Government is proud that they have done us the honour of making Scotland their home.

      We will always stick up for their rights – in recent months we have lobbied successfully to ensure EU citizens would not have to pay a fee to obtain settled status in the UK.

      We will always make it clear that EU citizens are welcome. In fact in the coming months, we plan to step up our efforts to encourage EU citizens to stay in Scotland.”

      In fact she specifically is going to say this apparently:

      Given the existence of those red lines, I understand why the European Union believes that the deal agreed in November is the best which could be achieved.

      “I appreciate that many people in France and across the EU would like the UK to just get on with it. But no government of Scotland which has the interests of this and future generations at heart could possibly support the current deal.”

      But no government of Scotland which has the interests of this and future generations at heart could possibly support the current deal

    258. Nana says:


      Thanks for that, missed it earlier & was just about to post it.

    259. yesindyref2 says:

      No worries 🙂

      I kind of knew it would get “misinterpreted” so read it carefully. Nowhere in there – or the Reuters article – does she say “After Brexit”, that’s an assumption Reuters has made, presumably based on the current timetable without delay or 2nd EU Ref or Ge, and also ignoring whatever the Scottish Government has in mind.

      Reuters ain’t bad, but it does get things wrong. What the Reuters article does also say is this:

      A Scottish government official declined to detail what the intensified effort to keep EU citizens would entail. London has argued that Scotland does not need a differentiated migration system.

      Indeed. But “a differentiated migration system” is not the only option.

    260. Ghillie says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 9.17 am

      Well quoted.

      No ambiguity there at all.

      Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP continue to fight for Scotland’s right to remain in the EU.

      Safe journey and have wonderful meetings in France today Nicola =)

    261. manandboy says:


      Brexit has revealed the truth about the European Union as a highly organised and hugely successful economic and political enterprise, while, at the same time exposing the UK Government & Establishment as incompetent and irresponsible.

      In typical fashion, the response of the immature English Ruling Class is to saturate the British electorate with a campaign of blaming the EU for all the UK’s problems – not forgetting the Irish, and the Scots, who also contributed to England’s current shambolic state.

      Such is the extent of the damage caused to virtually every aspect of life in England, it is impossible to foresee any meaningful recovery in the short to medium term.

      Yet, on its seemingly mindless rush to the edge of the cliff, the government continues to massage the opinion of the brainwashed majority by unrelenting propaganda in the media and by non-stop lying by Unionist politicians.

      Apart from that, there’s nothing much going on. Ho hum. Zzzz.

    262. If Chuka Umunna had not withdrawn from the 2015 Labour leadership election he would very probably have become leader of british Labour,

      instead of EU hating Corbyn at the helm of Labour during Brexit Ref it would have been Chuka,who is very pro EU,

      it would very likely have swung opinion enough to have defeated Brexit.

    263. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes. Sturgeon picks her words with precision to give nothing away. While giving France and other EU countries the message she wants to give “We want and welcome EU citizens and will be doing stuff to encourage them to stay”.

    264. Nana says:


      I always check the Scotgov webiste which I did last night, this article was not there at the time

      Published: 19 Feb 2019 00:01

    265. Jomry says:

      This was certainly my own first reaction on reading the headline. However, as Yesindyref points out, the headline is not reflected in the speech so it is clumsy ( or not so clumsy) reportage. I certainly hope this is the case. But once again it points up the insidious problem of media distortion of reality.

    266. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana and as expected Juncker has outlined that no member state of the EU will oppose an extension to A50. It looks as though this has some time to run yet with even more witnessing of “implosion” down south which will no doubt be conducive to us achieving our independence. Just as well Nicola stuck to her guns to see this through to the end. EU politicians (and some UK) must see her, and our Scottish ECJ parliamentarians, as being their only hope for this disastrous Brexit to be binned altogether. Scottish sanity versus English madness. Nicola Sturgeon a leader to be proud of.

      And an excellent article from Jason McCann. Heading back in time.

    267. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks! I looked at the SNP website but never thought of the scot gov one 🙁

    268. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ysindy2reg 01:44 “Only today a Press release from the Burmah Oil Group has indicated a further substantial find of oil in the Ninian field. Self-sufficiency could represent an annual benefit to our balance of payments of sums of £4,000 million, or even higher.”
      The Burmah oil Group, Scotlands oil company which had a senior executive called Denis Thatcher, funny that Scotlands oil company going bust on the eve of an Oil Boom in Scotlands Waters, if I remember correctly it was Chevron who ended up operating the Ninian Field which was massive.

    269. Nana says:


      and from that link there is another link for this event happening today between 4.30 and 5.40pm GMT on Tuesday 19 February.

    270. Nana says:

      Forgot this bit

      The First Minister was invited to address the 73-strong Foreign Affairs Committee by Marielle de Sarnez, the chair of the committee and former French Minister for European Affairs.

      Happening today between 4.30 and 5.40pm GMT on Tuesday 19 February.

    271. Macart says:

      @Robert Peffers 8.23pm

      *THAT* 🙂

      @Nana and yesindyref2

      Good catches. 🙂

    272. Nana says:

      Just saw this

      We’re launching what I believe to be a significant new case in the Brexit sphere at 10pm this evening. Watch this space.

    273. exile says:

      Nana, many, many thanks for all your work on links.

    274. Tinto Chiel says:

      Yes, Chuka Umunna: nice cheekbones and suits, pity about the inner moral void under the highly-ambitious Blairite shell.

      I always thought it most strange he withdrew from the Labour leadership contest and wondered if he had been persuaded by someone holding inconvenient information about him.

      Now he appears as a part of a group which can only strengthen the Tories.

      Cynical, moi?

      It’s a funny old game, Saint.

    275. Essexexile says:

      Yeah, me too on that. I’ve been quite content to sit and wait for indyref2 to be called but when you hear an admission that actually Scotland may have to endure Brexit after all, it’s a bit depressing.
      The fact that WM has consistently steamrollered ahead through Brexit seemingly unconcerned about the potential for a second iref does rather make you wonder how likely it is to happen sometimes too.
      There are enough political parties in the UK who’s line on Brexit is ‘F**k knows, your guess is as good as mine’. Pity the SNP seem to be just another one.

    276. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      We haven’t been pulled out of the EU YET so that particular condition of the mandate hasn’t been fulfilled – YET.

    277. Nana says:

      @Petra “Scottish sanity versus English madness”

      I don’t know Petra, sometimes I think I’m about to lose mine!

      @exile, you are welcome. I think I’ve gone link crazy this morning.

      But one more before I go hide for a while

      NFU are holding a conference today and slating Gove
      over delayed/unpaid environmental payments among other things.
      Won’t make any difference, Gove & the gang don’t ever listen to experts.

    278. Dr Jim says:

      The youth wing and Momentum which is the power base behind Jeremy Corbyn not only stand by the words of their Red Flag song including the references to sneering (tractors) they appear to want the heads of all opposition to them on spikes as well

      These are very unpleasant people and they will destroy the Labour party with their militancy just like they did before and we don’t need these people anywhere near Scotland

      Corbyn is a very stupid man but he’s also a very bad man, he’s trying to break things for his purpose not fix them and that’s a very old fashioned extreme left thing to do, especially when you fabricate a lie to conceal your purpose

    279. jezza says:

      The CBI in England have just released a new song called “Another One Bites The Dust”, which reflects what is happening to the south of our soon to be hard border.

      Events are starting to catch up with the English Brexiteers.
      Who will blame everything and everyone but themselves.

    280. Valerie says:

      I love that yoons are apoplectic at Nicola on her travels. Just love it.

      Just saw this comment on Twitter, which sums it up.

      A country where the cringe is so strong, the Leader is not allowed to leave it.

      Let’s hope Nicola has lots of travels in her future.

    281. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim another nail in the coffin of Corbyn ( Sad man in ah Taxi ) Derek Hatton to rejoin labour , might be Corbyns redundancy notice will be delivered shortly .

    282. Dr Jim says:

      Nicola Sturgeon must stop going to places
      Nicola Sturgeon must not come back from places

      Then the desperation clicks in and they’ve nothing left so they put up a picture of Jeanette Tough (Jimmy Kranky) because that’ll make folk see that the FM is bad won’t it, look at the funny picture we proved Sturgeon’s bad

      And you think, do the Idiot Yoonsters believe that stuff actually works

    283. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I noticed a mention of Alex Cole-Hamilton on the Rev’s twitter feed – and the comment that AC-H does not do embarrassment.

      Of course, nobody on the blue, red or yellow Tory benches at Holyrood does embarrassment – well, maybe James Kelly MSP, and Jackson Carlaw MSP, both of whom are permanently red-faced.

      And, if you mix blue, red and yellow, you end up with brown. Brown is the colour of shite – what a metaphor for the opposition parties at Holyrood.

    284. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson 11:15am

      Derek Hatton’s flag’s still got flames shooting oot it tae bring terror tae them that’s no him

    285. ronnie anderson says:

      AW naw mair innovation from the Uni of Strathclyde Rapid Sepsis testing . Aye to wee to continually help the World’s health improve .

    286. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Troll Hamilton spends all his time making up what he thinks are great Twitter put downs to make his constituent think he’s working

      Of course being a Lib Dem he has a lot of time to do it

    287. Cassandra says:


      from one Dr to another, Nicola Sturgeon must start listening to women’s concerns about the GRA or the damage to her (and my) party will be irreparable. There is real anger about her tone deafness to and clumsy rhetoric regarding legitimate concerns. ‘Yoons’ are the least of her problems if she doesn’t start to take this seriously.

    288. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim Nicola should do ah photo shoot wie the Statue of Liberty in the background , that will wind the Yoons up no end lol.

    289. Legerwood says:

      Nana @ 10.01 am

      The Herald today has a front page story, Tory inspired, about the FM’s ‘jaunt’ to France and how she will be missing the vote on the tax increases section of the budget. You know the tax increase that hikes the tax on the middle class into the stratosphere and a galaxay far far away.

      Of course little or no mention of what the FM is actually doing and who she is meeting so I hope you don’t mind but I copied the details in your post at 10.21 including the link and pasted into the comment into the comment section below this story in the digital Herald.

      Don’t know how many will see it but every little helps.

    290. INDEPENDENT says:

      Slightly o/t
      I can’t help wondering if the EU /Japan new trade deal was to nullify the UK threat, of not paying the agreed £39 billion divorce settlement, which Brexiteers said would then put a terrible strain on the EU’s budget.
      The only country with Japanese car plants is / was the UK (ie England).
      So no damage to any of the other 27 countries by striking the deal.
      Or indeed to a Scotland in the EU after Independence.

    291. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson 11:25am

      Never seems tae matter how many times Scotland cures folk fae being sick thur never greatfull and they never remember it wiz us

      Ye’d think they’d show it on the telly we invented as well

    292. Giving Goose says:


      I’m not completely au fait with GRA.
      What are your concerns, please?

    293. Undeadshaun says:


      Toyota have factories in France, poland portugal and Czech republic.

    294. admiral says:

      Valerie says:
      19 February, 2019 at 11:14 am
      I love that yoons are apoplectic at Nicola on her travels. Just love it.
      Just saw this comment on Twitter, which sums it up.
      A country where the cringe is so strong, the Leader is not allowed to leave it.
      Let’s hope Nicola has lots of travels in her future.

      It shows who are the real “separatists”. Nicola away to represent us to trading and cultural partners whilst the Yoons just want us to shut up and get back in the box whilst the country next door “represents” us to the rest of the world (aye, right!) because we are too stupid to do it ourselves.

    295. Cassandra says:

      @ Giving Goose

      Rather than rehash it here, Cameron Brodie gives a really good account over on Off Topic. My concerns with the SNP hierarchy are over there too. Not trying to derail here but it is becoming urgent the lack of legitimacy given to women’s concerns over the GRA by the SNP and FM particularly. She gave a really dismissive comment while in North America saying SHE didn’t feel threatened by greater Trans rights, completely missing the point of concerns.

    296. ronnie anderson says:

      Cassandra SNP as with other Political Parties are a convenient vehicle for the GRA to hitch your wagon to . In case its escaped your attention Nicola/SNP have more pressing matters to be getting on with such as continued membership of the EU & the small matter of Independence .

    297. Dr Jim says:

      @Cassandra 11:31am

      I assume you are referring th the Gender Recognition Act which is a minefield of epic proportions over something that no politician can ever win on let alone break even, if it were my decision I wouldn’t even know where to begin, I do know that the voices opposed and pro are loud and vociferous but as to the party being damaged irreparably I have my doubts on that

      My guess is the party will look at the evidence and percentages just like we do with all subjects and topics and base a solution to answers around a concensus approach

      Most people with personal agendas on the subject will be the ones directly affected by it, I’m not a politician thank God and my understanding of the subject is no more or less than the average Joe on it so it’s a subject I don’t envy any politician to make a judgement on, leaving those people like yourself, I presume who have a better understanding of it than myself, in limbo and annoyed

      I have great admiration for the FM in many ways but I guess on this she may have to rely on her gut as well as the science and whatever she comes up with will be seen as wrong by some and right by others possibly leaving nobody completely satisfied but everybody still talking

    298. Cassandra says:

      @Giving Goose

      Basically, the whole idea of being able to access women’s spaces on the basis of self-identification only has huge implications for the health service.

    299. Cassandra says:


      I believe, as do my colleagues, that this does have the potential to be deeply damaging to the SNP in ways not even envisaged regarding uptake for women’s services and how women will feel betrayed by a party they thought had their interests at heart.

      I’ll leave it at that.

    300. Petra says:

      @ Nana at ….” Sometimes I think I’m going to lose mine (sanity).

      Never mind Nana it won’t be too long now until you can stop delving into the dark side of Westminster shenanigans. A wee monument, street or park named after you in an Independent Scotland will surely help you to regain your sanity, lol. Thinking too that when this is all over we should be crowdfunding as a means of showing our thanks, to send you, Stu, WGD and so on, on a wee holiday. A world cruise would be nice plus a pile of spending money (I’ll volunteer to be your handmaiden, lol). The least we can do as we wouldn’t be where we are right now without people like you X


      Foreign Affairs reserved to Westminster. Nicola addressing the French (Westminster enemy) Foreign Affairs Committee today. The Tories north and south of the border must be going dokey right now. Ha ha, ha. Meanwhile, I wonder if the BBC / STV will report on this?

      Alison Thewliss on Politics Live now. Maybe Jo Coburn will bring up Nicola’s visit to France with her? Aye right!


      @ Nana at 10:05am …….. “Another Jo Maugham QC Brexit case.”

      I can’t wait to find out what’s been going on behind the scenes. What bombshell is he going to hit them with now and additionally I wonder who’s involved. Scots again?

    301. ronnie anderson says:

      Tereza’s going to Brussels tomorrow to meet Juncker ,she’s running scared of PMQs as she has no answers .

    302. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ NANA

      Sorry but couldn’t find “Mandarin & Clary Sage HAND cream”, however “Orange & Bergamot” sounds good..!

      If yesindyref2 is OK with it, send him your address which he can mail to me. Prompt delivery promised. 🙂

      It’s about time the “Queen of the links” got a nice big thank you from us. 🙂

    303. INDEPENDENT says:

      Undeadshaun, appreciate the detail but they are paired with PSA since 2002 to get in the door to Europe.
      As long as they maintained the partnership they were welcome and rightly so.
      It will be interesting to see if Toyota pull the UK but maintain the rest of their plants in REU. Post Need it?

    304. INDEPENDENT says:

      Need it Arghh

    305. Petra says:

      I’m not really conversant with the GRA however with little that I do know (should be doing my homework) it is a mine field and I’m inclined to agree with Cassandra. How this can be resolved is another thing altogether, as I thought this was based on a UN Human Rights ruling. If I’ve got this wrong I’m sure I’ll be corrected, lol.

    306. Nana says:

      @Legerwood share wherever you like, that makes me very happy!

      No monuments or street signs or anything else required, we each do what we can to further our aims. All I want is to see us free of Westminster, and that will be priceless.

      However if you really want and have a few spare groats, you could pay off the fantasy deficit 🙂

      Och that is too kind but seriously do not go to any trouble on my behalf. One day I will shake your hand (gently) 🙂

    307. Undeadshaun says:

      Psa toyota partnership is on specific vehicles
      Toyota aygo/citron C1/Peugeot/108
      Above share a factory in Czech Republic.
      And share van production.

    308. Undeadshaun says:

      Yaris and new corrola not a partnership.
      Corrolla is uk and turkey, yaris France

      Future of uk plant will be in doubt if no cu, probably why Turkey also making them.
      All of above nothing to do with PSA.

    309. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Nana says:

      Och that is too kind but seriously do not go to any trouble on my behalf. One day I will shake your hand (gently) ?”

      OK. Independence day would be fine don’t you think.. 😉

    310. Jack Murphy says:

      LGBT Awareness Week. Off-Topic. The DUP Party in cahoots with May’s and Davidson’s Tories.
      Some things never change.

      Belfast Telegraph today:

      ” A DUP councillor who broke ranks to support the LGBT community has said he will never be “a nodding dog” for the party after he was deselected for the local government elections in May.

      Tom Smith helped ensure that a motion in December to light up Ards Town Hall in rainbow colours to mark the start of LGBT Awareness Week was passed by 19 votes to 18.

      Last night Mr Smith lambasted the DUP as he hit out at the move. ……”

    311. Dr Jim says:


      Just a quick word perhaps on a personal level, I have a very disabled granddaughter who when I take her out or to a hospital I escort her to the toilet but she is capable enough to take care of herself once there but if I were to see a man enter that toilet dressed in whatever fashion that man whatever his persuation would be leaving and I would not care if I was politically correct or otherwise

      I think personal reactions like my story would be of an influence on any decision taken by any politician whether I’m considered guilty of something or not

      Will political parties criminalise protection of the vulnerable, I doubt it

      But again I’m not a politician I’m only a grandad, and others are Dads Mums brothers and sisters
      If the population don’t like a thing and make it known they don’t like it politicians pay attention, that’s percentage politics

      People always have the final say

    312. Undeadshaun says:

      Brexit causing ‘palpable decline’ in UK influence at the UN

    313. R4 says:

      Just watched Alison Thewliss being ignored on Daily Politics show,for almost an hour. She was hardly asked for comments at all. What a waste of time. Perhaps we should be boycotting these shows. What’s the point of being on if your not allowed to participate.

    314. Cubby says:


      Dr Doom all you have done since you first appeared is post concern trolling. Why not give it a rest?

      ” you hear an admission” – who when where? – One of your pals in Essex.

      “There are enough political parties in the UK whose line on Brexit is f***k knows, your guess is good as mine. Pity the SNP are just another one”. – Essexexile the expert on the SNP.

      Your concern trolling is as subtle as a brick.

    315. Nana says:

      @Graf Midgehunter

      That will be the perfect day 🙂

    316. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana It takes a particular skill such as that tailors dummy ACH tae keep kicking yer ain erse

    317. mike cassidy says:

      The GRA is important to the rep of the SNP.

      It’s not an exaggeration to say that some serious mysogonists are openly taking advantage here by claiming to be men who now identify as women.

      The motivation is clear.

      They can invade women’s spaces – including women-only safe spaces knowing the law will be on their side.

      And any woman who opposes this is seen as a target for justifiable violence.

      Anybody following this subject as it occurs on the Rev’s twitter feed will be aware of all this and more.

    318. ronnie anderson says:

      Cassandra like Dr Jim am no PC . If a person of whatever gender isn’t happy with the tackle he/she has & want to change said tackle I have no issue with them getting on with it but to ask our SNHS to pay for it is ridiculous & anyone going abroad to get these operation they would be required to have proper insurance before/& aftercare should things go wrong.

      Nobody can create a third gender .

    319. Essexexile says:

      Do please bugger off. Or at the very least stop replying to any post from any person which deviates slightly from your one eyed view of the world with the same yawn inducing bollocks.
      I can just about make my peace with being on the same side as you until independence is achieved so long as I don’t have to look at you or listen to you.
      As Irvine Welsh wrote ‘Hang around with losers, you become a loser. There’s nothing surer’. Which is why I question my involvement on a comments board that has at least half a dozen of them.

    320. Jack Murphy says:

      jockmcx said last night at 7:11 pm:

      ” Tried too watch indycargordonross via nana’s link, i can
      never figure out how to get to the vid from the link.
      do u have to sign in to facebook? (i’m not gonna do that)or
      are his vid’s posted elswhere?..thanks for help anyone! ”

      Here you are jockmcx,IndyCar Gordon Ross has an upload page on YouTube Videos.
      Pleased to be of help. [smile]


    321. Petra says:

      @ R4 at ……”Alison Thewliss ignored by Jo Coburn BBC.”

      I’ve noticed more SNP politicians being invited on to the show recently, R4. This is their token gesture to curb complaints no doubt. As to ignoring her. They can’t help themselves. You saw it, I saw it and no doubt many Scots (and others) saw it too. That alone is worth them going on. As every day passes the BBC, Unionist supporting media in general, are just nailing another nail in their rickety coffin.

    322. Cubby says:


      “On the same side as you”. Aye right you are. Laughable.

    323. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, they’re great. Like you I tread (hopefully) carefully and calmly these days. Just little nudges.

    324. Nana says:

      Re Jolyon Maugham

      Delighted @GoodLawProject going to challenge Serious Shortage
      Protocol which I raised in Health Questions this morning. Hard to believe U.K. Gov didn’t even consult General Medical Council & that legislation for this has not undergone ANY debate at Westminster!

      We’re supporting @GoodLawProject’s challenge of Goverment’s new permanent powers to alter medications in event of any shortage. This law if activated could see many people with #epilepsy harmed if proper processes aren’t followed & careful guidance created

    325. yesindyref2 says:


      It’s totally bloody ridiculous that private citizens have to take the UK Government to court, because it and the main opposition party are so ineffectual, undemocratic and bloody stupid and useless.

      Pardon the French 🙂

    326. jezza says:

      I see Chubby and Geek still doin their shouty thing.

      Mr and Mrs Angry.

    327. Cubby says:


      Never done any shouting at you. You are the one with the gratuitous insults. Try cutting out the insults and anti English racism and our paths will never cross again as far as I am concerned.

    328. geeo says:

      Poor wee jezza, nobody is paying attention to him now that he has nothing to say.

      Rev Stu neutered him, but we all know he will not be able to resist a return to type and get an inevitable ban.

      Tic tock….

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