The teachers are afraid of the pupils
It’s always a concerning state of affairs for any society when newspaper journalists appear less well-informed and less capable of intelligent analysis than their readers.
So we felt a letter published in today’s Herald deserved a wider audience.
It is hard to argue that the UK moving from a trade deficit of around 4.4% of GDP to closer to 10% and increasing its debt to GDP ratio to well over 100% puts it in a strong position. The risk premium of 1.5% that “sources” say lenders would demand of Scotland compared to the UK is equally doubtful.
Excellent work, Calum Mackenzie of 4 Mount Tabor Avenue, Perth. Have you ever considered writing for Wings Over Scotland? You know where to reach us.
By sheer chance, an alert reader also happened to contact us on the same subject today. We’ll pass you straight over to them.
“I thought you might be interested in what the borrowing rate might be for an independent Scotland. Robert Peston suggests Scotland would have a higher bond interest rate, and that ‘sources’ tell him it would be 1.5 points higher than the UK’s. But here are the % rates for various 10 year government bonds (taken a few days ago):
UK 2.86
Euro 1.3
Austria 2.20
Belgium 2.52
Czech 2.33
Denmark 1.92
Finland 2.06
France 2.36
Germany 1.85
Netherlands 2.16
Sweden 2.42
Switzerland 1.22Any reason why it would be 4.36 for solvent, resource-rich Scotland?
Missing from that list is Norway, at 2.92, but given that they have a sovereign wealth fund that’s just shy of £100,000 for every person in the country, their debt rating is pretty moot. I guess the risk there is that they could tell the bond market to sling their hook, and no-one could penalise them for it.
Also missing is Ireland, who despite all their troubles are at 3.29 – only 0.4 points above the UK, and their rate has fallen by a fifth in a year, while the UK’s has risen by more than a third.”
Is it any wonder that fewer and fewer of the UK’s citizens are prepared to believe anything they read in the press, or to pay them money to be misinformed by people who clearly either don’t know what they’re talking about, or do but are deliberately lying about it to suit a particular political agenda?
That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.
Two excellent pieces of work by two individuals, which has shown our scottish MSM are certainly not fit for purpose.
These are both good articles of reasoning!.
The truth will out, as they say. But in the Scottish media, before September 18th? Hmmm.
They aren’t even attempting to keep the message consistent. In a masterclass in condescending stupidity on Good Morning Scotland yesterday, media “financial pundit” David Buik opined that an independent Scotland would face higher interests rates because the Scottish economy was somehow less diverse than that of the UK. The concentration of too much of our population in two big cities (Edinburgh and Glasgow)would also count against us apparently! He didn’t explain why that consideration didn’t apply to the UK and London.
The quality of Calum Mackenzie’s letter is self evident. This is someone who obviously understands the bond market and the broader aspects of international finance.
Get him on board quick, Rev.
There are growing signs of panic emerging over the UK debt problem and the middle of the night announcement over the weekend indicated that. It may well have had, in the longer term, an effect opposite to its intention.
A significant devaluation of the pound has obvious attractions in this difficult situation but it would plunge a large proportion of our populations into severe poverty. The relentless incremental devaluation which is going on at the moment is having a gradual but similar effect.
What is certain is that the terms of the debate being held across the UK and widely in the media is now subtly changed.
The thrust before was that independence would be bad for Scotland. This now being replaced by a growing understanding that Scottish independence will be bad for England
Two excellent pieces ,however who besides the committed political anoraks like us will ever know about this?
The MSM and broadcasters will continue to spew out their lies and “Wee Shuggie and Mary” will only hear that nice Jackie Bird and John Mackay telling them how poor and how stupid Scotland is and what a mistake it would be to let that big bad man Salmond con us all into separation from the bountiful bosom of mother Westminster.
I think it gets trickier.
If the rUK continues issuing gilts in a sterling zone post independence. The only way I can see that the interest rate will not sky rocket, is if iScotland also underwrites the gilt as well.
Otherwise, the rUK gilt interest will be gauged on merit, and since iScotland’s economy will be separate, the rUK trade deficit will still be greater as will the debt to GDP ratio.
As far as I can tell, iScotland underwriting rUK gilts is a step too far for a new country, as the size of the UK debt mountain just keeps increasing. Of course, there’s probably someone who can explain how this sterling zone works for iScotland, in a way where iScotland is not bound to millstone of UK financial stupidity.
What gets me is that nobody pointed out to William Hague when he produced his two academics to pronounce the extinguishment of Scotland, so he could claim all the seats at the top table for the rUK, that this lands the rUK with all the debt. Nobody, not in Whitehall, not in the media, not in Westminster.
Is it because DC’s decision that there would be no pre-negotiation of independence has been interpreted as there will be pre-consideration of independence? Is it because we now have not only an Arts / Science divide but an Economic / Non-economic one in the culture of homo brittanicus? Even more discouraging, is it because “they” have not even begun to consider what independence might mean for the rUK? What would independence do for us if England is convulsed? What do all the seats at the top table do for you if you can’t afford them?
Or is it a question of we wont ask the difficult questions because we, and you, are afraid of what the answers may be?
“The concentration of too much of our population in two big cities (Edinburgh and Glasgow)would also count against us apparently!”
We’re less “diverse” because UK government policy has hindered regeneration and growth in our once proud “second” tier cities like Dundee, that has an unemployment rate of nearly twice the Scottish average.
Another reason to vote Yes.
Great stuff.
I don’t know if anyone else caught it but yesterday morning on GMS a certain David Buick stated (of course without any retaliation from the supine presenter) that a country with a population of only 6M could never hope to have a credit rating as good as a country with 60M?
A shame, really, that the two examples cited are not actually journalists, since both are better informed and more eloquent than any of the ‘we picked this up from a press release’ copy writers (journalists is a bit too much of compliment for many of them) who populate the Scottish and wider media.
I mean, I knew almost instinctively that there was something very suspicious about the Treasury assertions about interest rates and debt repayments, but unlike the gentlemen who you have quoted I do not have any pertinent knowledge. Mostly I rely on my fairly well tuned shite filter and a long, long habit of distrusting anything Westminster says about Scotland.
Funny one today as well, to hear Osbourne on about how the EU ‘must reform or we’re leaving.’ I wonder if we should try the same line on Westminster? Quite safe; they won’t reform anyway.
I do gather enormous enjoyment in his comments though, where Europe is in decline and getting out of the larger EU is key to the UK economy whilst his colleagues in Scotland laugh at the suggestion that the smaller economy of Scotland would be more stable than that of the clearly crippled UK.
This campaign has shone a light on Scottish journalists, and what we see isn’t pretty.
They are either useless or placemen.
It is not in our interest or the rUK’s interest that we have a separate currency and Sterling tanks. In fact the argument (in the short to medium term) that we have a currency union make sense for internal trade.
Lets say that we adopt a different currency, it is likely because of a positive balance of payments (we export more than we import, the asset value of oil and the reserves of green energy, fishing etc etc etc that the Scots Pund trades at a premium to Sterling. Our exports to the rUK would be more expensive and that would make them harder to sell. But is Sterling dropped against a basket of currencies it would make goods more expensive in the rUK causing inflation.
No one wins so the logical conclusion is agree on a shared currency.
Great article,well informed unlike some sources who pretend not to be so.
I suppose the problem is that journalists are professional writers, but not professional economists, lawyers, or whatever area it is they’re writing about. All they can do is reword the information they get from their chosen “experts”, and if the “expert” is either biased or rubbish, then they’ll simply be rewording rubbish. “Garbage In, Garbage Out”, as we say in computing.
However, a good journalist knows how to discern what is and isn’t absolute pish, and clearly far too many of Scotland’s journalists fail that test. But there’s no excuse when so many of us online show how easy it is to check these kind of things.
I think, that the stripping out of the lies, half-truths and ignorance that we have all been battering away at is slowly beginning to percolate through to people – not maybe in any detailed way, but as a general impression that they are not being told the truth by BT or by Westminster.
If that’s the case, it’s up to us to simplify the message and get it out. Scotland is richer; Scotland’s economy is more stable; Scotland has better prospects.
I suffer from a condition called robertpestonague. This means I get a pain in the arse every time he appears on tv.
This man even struggles to speak English. Misinformation and smoke and mirrors are his stock in trade.
I just re-read that, the scariest line is
Also missing is Ireland, who despite all their troubles are at 3.29 – only 0.4 points above the UK, and their rate has fallen by a fifth in a year, while the UK’s has risen by more than a third.”
So, UK are £1.4 trillion in debt and slowly but surely our rating is going down and our rate is going up. That cannot be good for whats going to come down the line in next few years I fear!
Some great stuff from Derek Bateman today, incidentally. Very harsh words on Jim Gallagher:
http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/duck/
“There are growing signs of panic emerging over the UK debt problem and the middle of the night announcement over the weekend indicated that. It may well have had, in the longer term, an effect opposite to its intention.”
DAVE! How the bloody hell have you STILL managed to not include any paragraph breaks despite our nice new comments system?
The ignorance of (financial) ill researched journalist is astounding. One starts the lie and the others join in. So-called experts from right wing tax evading, Westminster controlled MSM telling lie after lie, for big bucks. No wonder they are so despised, for greedy manipulative exploitation.
I think the first post by Davy covers the key point.
It is important that the truth on the financial position of Scotland comes out.
However it is even more important that the debate shines a bright light on the activities of our MSM. If a few individuals can piece together a balanced factual assessment why do those with training and a claim to a profession not do so.
If we cannot trust our media on this issue what does it indicate for the future.
In 20years time it may be a different story that we are debating – if they can lie (a big lie) to you once…
Those who wish to control us will eventually find a way to manipulate the internet (plenty of evidence around the world). For that reason good quality journalism is required plus a trusted media to present it.
If the journalists in the MSM are surrendering their values to keep their jobs, then I’m afraid you are only buying time…
‘Bedroom Tax’ under Westminster jurisdiction, introduce by Westminster . UK 400,000Million.
Scotland £40,000Million? Scottish gov mitigation £20,000 (highest possible under UK gov system)
‘Bedroom Tax’ in rest of the UK. £360,000 million. – Mitigation Fund £25Million.
Rest of the UK – UK Treasury borrows and spends £100Billion more in the rest of the UK. (Pro rata £10Billion) Scotland pays £4Billion in loan repayments, plus £3Billion Royal Mail/Pension assets. = £7Billion . Nothing has been paid off the Deficit. The UK Treasury has taken it, misappropriately.
What struck me about the Treasury announcement was the fact that their assertion that Scotland would be duty-bound to arrange a payment plan with England is without precedent in international law.The international convention is for the debt to be split and transferred or for the continuator state to shoulder the burden.If someone can point out a case where a seceding part has been bound to the old-state by debt payments i would be keen to hear of it.
Good letters, very similar content to something I put out on FB yesterday or the day before.
BTW interesting comments from poacher turned gamekeeper at the start of Johnny Beattie’s prog today on the obscenity of banker’s wages and their effects e.g. removing money from the system etc.
@Dave McEwan Hill “This now being replaced by a growing understanding that Scottish independence will be bad for England”.
@Rod Mac
Both spot on guys. As the penny drops (excuse the horrible pun) in England that Scottish independence will have a devastating effect on the English economy the more shrill the voices will become from the City of London. I think things will become very nasty, very soon on that front.
Rod’s point may be well worn, but it is ever so relevant. We really must try and reach more of the Scottish electorate. Is it not time for the YES campaign to go on the offensive? Is there anything else we the political anoraks can do to circumvent the media and get the Indy message across? I really think it is time to move up a gear.
If I’ve understood correctly, the people I’ve spoken to who say ‘they don’t have enough info’ to me anyway,are actually saying ” will I be safe, will my money be safe?” and that’s the message that is being deliberately blurred by Unionists.
As facts, data is becoming available as above, the unionists continue ( including the msm) to muddy the situation. We need to get that message out that people (and their money ) will be safe.
O/T the msm may be selective in their coverage but they can’t stop social media. Russell Brand just retweeted a nice wee nest of vipers explaining the connection with fracking/ Govt/ business. Does anyone else sense a bit more urgency in Westminsters quest for energy? Wonder why ?
The painful truth that no one in London/Westminster/Whitehall wants to admit is that Scottish independence is bad because of the huge difference between the fiscal surplus in Scotland & the colossal fiscal deficit in Britain (England).
This explains the near silence when Westminster is asked by the Scottish Government to clarify pre-independence terms.
The British Government would be forced to reveal the truly catastrophic financial position it would find itself in should it lose the security of the net positive cash flow from all those rich resources from Scotland.
If the truth were to fully emerge, the markets would respond accordingly & put Britain into potential bankruptcy territory because the price of Treasury Notes would rise along with interest rates because the credit rating of the rUK would fall.
It really is quite simple folks. The British Government is petrified of revealing the true picture of where all the cash comes from that is currently used to as security against its debts. When some of that security disappears, credit ratings will crash, the cost of borrowing will rise & the debt mountain will explode.
Britain will soon face economic meltdown unless it does the sensible thing; agree to a Sterling Zone, maintain free & open borders & fairly carve up the assets & liabilities.
Thanks to Labour’s reckless spending spree under Brown & Darling, Scotland could not be in a better negotiating position to determine the terms of the divorce.
The UK Treasury is borrowing at 2.5% and lending at 1%. How long can that go on? Printing monies devaluing the £ against other currencies.
In an Independent Scotland interest rates would be lower than in the rest of the UK. In the rest of the UK the interest rate would be higher. Scotland’s assets and resources are used as collateral to keep the rest of the UK interest rates down.
Scotland raises more in taxes and spends less. The rest of the UK borrows and spends £100Billion more. Pro rata £10Billion – Scotland borrows and spend less and would be within it’s budget, without Westminster interference.
The Herald briefly became a reasoned unbiased paper just before the last Scottish election. However since then it has gone down the Scotsman route. They no longer report the news as an observor. They report their opinion on the news as news. It’s a very important distinction between a good newspaper/journalist and a hack!Shame on you Herlad. Mind you they got shot of all their good journalists.
OT “Russell Brand just retweeted a nice wee nest of vipers explaining the connection with fracking/ Govt/ business. Does anyone else sense a bit more urgency in Westminsters quest for energy? Wonder why ?”
FYI French government has recently banned fracking on French territory.
The first UK commercial production licence was for the coal seam exploitation near Falkirk. While strictly not fracking (yet, that’s how these operations start out) it uses the same well drilling techniques. It should also be noted that coal seam gas extraction is potentially much more polluting of the water supply than shale.
Great to see Better Together lies-as-journalism exposed for what it is. Well done the two ‘proper’ journalists!
The finer points of finance is not my forte, but I’ve learned a lot since the beginning of the independence campaign…I think!
However, as Rod Mac alludes to above, the problem is getting the intricacies of financial matters into language and figures simple enough for the common-or-garden voter to comprehend what they all mean for an independent Scotland and, more importantly, them. I hope someone, or some group, can come up with something that enables the figures to be broken down into a basic, easy-to-understand format. It’s a tough ask, but it would be a real game-changer if it could be done.
@ Jimsie
“… This means I get a pain in the arse every time he appears on tv.”
That is LOL funny! Thanks for that!
” Is it not time for the YES campaign to go on the offensive? Is there anything else we the political anoraks can do”
Personally speaking, I’m not good at timing. I think it might be an area where our political leadership has good expertise and instinct, so would personally leave it up to them. Though, like you, my frustration does occasionally burst forth from my fingertips.
The problem for the pro-independence campaign is communicating salient facts like these (delivered with commendable economy by these two gentlemen[?]) to those who will decide the outcome of this plebiscite: the current don’t knows and the soft NOES.
YES would already be in the lead in this campaign were it not for the Unionist statists near total control of the traditional channels of communication. The central issue of this campaign is as it has always been: How do you outshot the guys with the megaphone who by dint of drip-drip-drip repetition look to frighten their way to victory?
I am skeptical of the notion of mass doorstep conversions by activists of the unengaged low information voters whose decision, current polling suggests, is likely to be governed by that base instinct. And as much as I’d like to believe it, I don’t see those with better things to do, flocking to excellent online blogs and fora like WOS, either.
I still think we need seriously degrade the effectiveness of the media’s messeging by making its extreme bias and consequent toxic effect upon the democratic process, a central theme for the remainder of the campaign.
The BBC should be the target, for it has more power to influence than any other outlet. It is also the most vulnerable in that it is a public body with a charter that specifically prohibits precisely the kind of scurrilous behaviour it currently engages in with aplomb.
WOS, NNS, and others in new media have done a sterling job in exposing wrong-doing at the BBC, but it is well past time for the principals of the Independence campaign to make it a central issue.
First and formost among them must be the leaders of the Scottish Government itself, for this is a matter of protecting the electoral process from the corrupt acts of powerful vested interests. An informed electorate is a requirement of a robust democracy, and it is the duty of those we charge with protecting it to act when it is under attack.
The evidence of BBC collusion, political manipulation, and deliberate misrepresentation is out there, thanks for the most part to sites like this. There needs to be an official inquiry into the BBC’s conduct, its malfeasance in pursuit of its private political agenda, and its aledged misuse of public monies to promote the Unionist cause at the expense of truth and the the electoral process.
The purpose of calling for an inquiry is to force this dastardly clandestine behaviour of closed meeting and backlog deals out into the open and thereby into public consciousness. Whether an inquiry is actual convened is nether here nor there.
The intent is to call into question the veracity of BBC reporting and analyses so that its pernicious effect upon the outcome of this referendum is nullified, or at least minimised.
Have I fell foul of the rules,I posted up on Calum Mackenzie,s piece,ie (sas)Scottish Articulate Sepratist,but its no there.
an why,s there a box wie a wee red X, whit,s that fur
From George Kerevans article on NNS
“As we noted above, the real reason the cost of UK public borrowing is not higher is because the Bank of England has printed money and – effectively – used the cash to buy Treasury bonds. (It ‘launders’ the money by buying bonds at an above the odds price on the open market.) To date the Bank of England has spent £375 billion on this exercise. However, as a result of funding the treasury by (essentially) resorting to the printing press, the Bank of England now owns around a third of the UK national debt. And that, Mr Darling, is an asset that comes into the negotiations over Scottish independence.
Eight per cent of the Bank of England’s Treasury bond holding – acquired through quantitative easing – should by rights go to Scotland. But that transfers ownership of a chunk of rUK debt to a foreign country. It means that instead of the UK state owing itself money (because it ‘owns’ the Bank of England) it would suddenly have a new foreign creditor.”
This puts the asset/liabilities balance sheet on a completely different footing
I agree Chic although Gordon Brewer on Newsnight Scotland appeared unable to get anyone from Falkirk Council ( who gave permission) or even anyone from the local residents ( who are against) to speak on the programme. Instead we were subjected to Murdo ( I don’t live anywhere near Airth so coal seem exploitation is a good thing) Fraser to rabbit on about how backward Scotland will be if we fail to realise the potential. Not even a member of the Green Party was available it seems.
David Cameron seemed a bit desperate in his fracking sound bite, do you think maybe someone’s told him, your need to rethink your energy policy -pronto
@ Dave McEwan Hill
“The thrust before was that independence would be bad for Scotland. This now being replaced by a growing understanding that Scottish independence will be bad for England.”
How true that is! And pro-Scottish independence commenters have been saying that from the get-go on various newspapers’ online sites. Notice how now, compared with even a few months ago, there are fewer examples of the, ‘Piss-off you scrounging Jocks, we’ll be better off without you anyway!’ type of commment. At last – at last – more and more people in England are looking outwith the MSM’s Better Together Project Fear propaganda (not that that will stop it being produced right up to the day of the referendum) and not liking what they are seeing.
Westminster is, of course, shitting itself about Scottish independence. Not only will they lose Scotland’s bountiful resources, but there is a great probability that the people of England will start to seriously question the state of rUK politics and the role of Westminster itself. What the outcome of that will be is highly uncertain. The rumblings and mutterings of a people’s revolution, in whatever form that may take? Who knows. It certainly makes for what will be interesting times indeed.
I agree Christian Wright about getting MSM’s lies across to the General Public who don’t read any Citizen Journalism!
We can all pat ourselves on the back when we read , agree and post on Wings, Newsnet, Bella! However it worries me that your ordinary man/woman who read Newspapers in Scotland wil not be getting the message .
We only have one chance of Voting for Independence! Let’s find a solution to this. I would agree that the Scottish Gov. has to start addressing the problem of the BBC being so anti Indy. We all pay for it!
#Molly,Cameron cant reveal what,s taking place in the
background, it would expose them as lier,s to the rUK electorate,but truth will out in the end.
Oops
Maybe Tommy Sheridan could help out in Rallies for ” non payment ” of the Tv License !
The Beeb might take notice !
Heres a cracker for you, Chris Mason the BBC’S political editor this morning quoting a Tory
“Labour cant be trusted over anything to do with banking as it was they who presided over the banking collapse”
the silence from the BBC reporter was deafening,
but they expect us to believe the man who did the presiding.
You couldn’t make it up.
“What struck me about the Treasury announcement was the fact that their assertion that Scotland would be duty-bound to arrange a payment plan with England”
What about a fiver a month forever?
cant say fairer than that,
besides when the books are opened I still believe the balance will be vastly in favour of England owing Scotland it’ll be them paying US back forever!
” Does anyone else sense a bit more urgency in Westminsters quest for energy? Wonder why ?”
I saw Cameron on the telly the other night pleading just how much money local economies will benefit from the frackers, there was a clear sign of desperation in his face and his voice, the shit has indeed hit the fan.
Do we (well, does England) currently import gas from Russia?
Just wondering, like.
@ kalmar
Aye they might well be putin up the price…
John King
I think we would be looking at a matter of Odious debt if Scotland is going to be compelled to pay money to England.Only debt amassed that has been of direct benefit to Scotland could be sought by the continuator state.
@Ken500
Indefinitely; they’re the source of the currency in question.
No, it isn’t; I get more US dollars and euros for my pound now than I did a few years ago. Spending in excess of capacity devalues a currency.
And replying not to Ken, but generally; the reason Irish bond yields are barely above UK yields is the same as the reason for all other peripheral eurozone yields having dropped: the continuing explicit and implicit support of the ECB. Without that support yields would spike again immediately.
This kind of information is never show on TV or printed in newspapers
This aim sure will be attended to in due course
Molly
Missed that newsnicht. I’ll live.
@Flower of Scotland – And I agree with your agreement with me 🙂
So now there’s two of us, the seed of a geometric progression.
The weight of a compliant and indeed complicit media is the ONLY asset the Union’s statists posses. Discrediting them is job one. You cannot win by persuasion when your argument is invariably filtered through our adversary’s propaganda outlets.
It will ALWAYS be corrupted by that distribution chain. The independence movement is not addressing this truly existential threat to this nation.
That is not hyperbole. If Scots give up their God-given right to govern themselves they can look forward to the repatriation of devolved competencies (back to Westminster) to neuter Nationalist power.
Scottish representation in the Westminster Parliament will be reduced to the already scheduled fifty (50) MPs initially, and will continue to decline as Scotland’s population continues to comprise a smaller and smaller portion of the greater English state.
There will be concerted efforts to dissolve the instruments and protocols of Scotland’s status as a country within the UK, and to recast it in the public’s mind as just other northern region of Britain.
A NO vote risks an inevitable and inexorable descent of our culture into obscurity and obsolescence.
Our legal system, unique education system, and our NHS, of necessity dismissed and rejected as incongruous anachronisms, predicated on the once-held delusion of our uniqueness as a people and a country.
The unacceptable risk of rejecting independence is that the country we love will be permanently subsumed as a neglected and reviled low-opportunity Celtic backwater of a Greater England.
@ Christian Wright . Ok ,but how do we get all this information out into the General Public ! ( without using MSM ) ?
I’m sorry but I do wish people like Christian White would stop spouting so much pish.
How many times do polls have to show that Scots don’t trust BT politicians, and we have little faith in the MSM, before you will stop thinking that people are a bunch of numpties and it’s only people like us that can see through the bias?
Like I’ve said before, the project fear is increasingly coming from people who claim are ‘Yes’ but are constantly screeching about Media Bias. look at the polling data, and please explain why the MSM is more powerful than face to face conversations, (something any large company would give their eye teeth to have)
Perhaps if people didn’t consider themselves a bit better or more intelligent than others, they wouldn’t feel inclined to be so offensive about others.
“Ok ,but how do we get all this information out into the General Public ! ( without using MSM ) ?”
By making a scandal so big that it cannot be hidden . The idea is to have the media feed on itself.
By having Alex Salmond, his ministers, the leadership of the YES Campaign, pro-indy high profile representatives of the business community, and sections of Civic Scotland sympathetic to the Nationalist cause, all calling for an official inquiry into troubling allegations of BBC wrong-doing that violate its charter, the misuse and misappropriation of public monies in the service of accruing political advantage for one side in this campaign, and other more serious violations that may contravene criminal statute or case law.
Again having an inquiry is not the goal – we don’t have time for that. Calling for the inquiry is the mechanism by which we force the media to cover the issue. The goal is if possible to generate saturation coverage.
It occurs to me that video on the evening news of BBC executives in handcuffs being perp-walked out of Pacific Quay, might do the trick.
@Patrick Roden: That’s Wright Patrick, not White.
Yes, the superiority of face-to-face dialog is demonstrated how exactly? The portion of the electorate that favours indy is still languishing around a third. The polling data on voting intentions and reasons for voting NO flatly contradict your assertions.
Voters say they don’t trust politicians but they keep electing them.
Memes that reach average unengaged voters permeate the political zeitgeist by a process of osmosis. It is the constant repetition of simple stories that penetrate the formidable barrier of there indifference – not some punter who turns up at their door uninvited to talk enthusiastically in detail about an issue that really is not a priority to them.
How many door-to-door salesman do you come into contact with on a daily basis? Contrast that with the barrage of media advertising you are exposed to every day? You really believe that is not effecting you? It’s not influencing your choices? Well you’re wrong.
Now in the case of the political messaging in this campaign people are at an even greater disadvantage in that the propaganda (advertising copy) is served-up as information from bringers of truth.
The best and most effective propaganda is propaganda that is not recognised as propaganda by its victims. This sort of customer conditioning is worth its weight in gold.
Their views are being molded by headlines and sound bites whether they know it or not.
“Like I’ve said before, the project fear is increasingly coming from people who claim are ‘Yes’ but are constantly screeching about Media Bias.”
Realy, So I’m operating under false colours because I don’t share you view? I’m really from Project Fear?
I fear your living in the real world.
Errata –
“that penetrate the formidable barrier of
theretheir indifference”“I fear
youryou’re not living in the real world”.Really miss the editor
@Christian Wright
How about some T-shirt designs with slogans like “Media bias in Scotland is killing the debate!”
I’d be happy to help out with such a project, a few thousand wearers trotting around the supermarkets ought to get folk thinking, hell I’d be quite happy to stand next to the newpaper stands all morning Sundays if needs be.
I know people who could make up the designs but unfortunately not the funding.
As someone who has been involved in the production of newspapers all my working life, I believe that we need to find a way of producing our own 8pp newspaper, edited by pro indy experts, and distributed by Yes activists.
I have already priced an 8page paper with a run of 1M and 2M copies (There are approx 2M Scottish households) as follows.
1M copies of an 8page taboid will cost approx £30k. 2M copies approx £56k.
The problem is financing this, as I dont believe that Yes have the funds available.
The SNP do have this kind of money, but it is my belief that a paper funded by the SNP would not carry the same authority as one produced independently (I say this as an SNP member)
I would be happy to undertake to all the production and project management work involved, under an editorial board, provided we can raise the funds.
We really need to get our message out and by-pass the bias of the MSM.
Any ideas welcome
@Chic McGregor appreciate your point Chic. Like you I am unsure of the timing. I really do hope that AS and the YES campaign have a game changer up their sleeve and they launch it at the appropriate time. I just think we are lacking something at the moment. Not sure whether its momentum, or we should be on the offensive more. I think David McCann’s comment “We really need to get our message out and by-pass the bias of the MSM” sums it up perfectly for me. Willing to do all I can to help.
@ David McCann
Would 8pp be necessary? You’d make a pretty large saving cutting down to 4pp, I would have thought, and you would still have space to cover a lot of issues. I have never worked in newspaper production btw, I just guessing. 🙂
@ Christian Wright
Have you sent a copy of your 2.26pm comment to the First Minister?
@ Patrick Roden
Sorry, but what is the first thing you do when the bath is overflowing? Turn off the tap.
The patient’s condition will not improve until he/she stops taking the smack.
SquareHaggis says: “How about some T-shirt designs with slogans like “Media bias in Scotland is killing the debate!” ”
Sounds great . . or how about “It’s the BBC stupid”. When folks ask, which they will, “What’s the BBC . .?” you have a ready made audience to who you can proselytize.
errata – to
whowhom you can proselytize.edit facility,please
CameronB: “Have you sent a copy of your 2.26pm comment to the First Minister?
No . . I was hoping to run into him in Greggs.
@ Patrick Roden
Meant to add, IMO. 🙂
Jo Soap isn’t thick, just misinformed. However, I think the stakes are too high for us to let things pan out as they are, in the hope or expectation that the public will see through the smoke and mirrors.
We can’t allow the BBC, a publicly funded body, to be used as a tool for political influence against a Yes vote.
@ Christian Wright
Mine’s a macaroni pie.
Smart, Christian 🙂 I like your thinking.
David McCann,
I have long believed that a free newspaper countering the No campaign’s lies is essential.
Wings Over Scotland in written form in 8 pages would be more than enough for this purpose.
Ideally, distributed to every household on a Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
Providing the truth on the week’s scare stories by the No campaign.
We have very little time left now. We will never get the opportunity of independence again.
I really hope that your offer will be taken up and a newspaper appear within the next couple of months.
There are at least 30% committed Yes voters. I am sure many of them would be willing to fund a newspaper.
http://www.inplaceoffear.com/in-place-of-fear-ii-media/
Guys, I do beleive Jim Sillars has just beaten us to it
Thanks to Gordoz for the heads up
2 copies just ordered out 0n Jan 20th
These international comparisons are important. The second contributor points out that Norway does pay a few more base points than the UK. Unionists will quote that back on occasion. The reason is that the yield on 10 year bonds has a more complex correlation than just Debt to GDP and risk perception. Bank rate in individual counties is also a factor. We have a bank rate at an abnormally low rate of 0.5%. Norwegian bank rate is a bit closer to normal at 1.5%. Norwegians therefore get a semi decent, if modest, return for holding Norwegian Bonds. Norwegian Debt to GDP is 28.3%.
The UK’s debt to GDP is currently 88.7%.
Dr Angus Armstrong of NIESR on Newsnight this week said Scotland’s was 75% and that RUK’s would rise to 104% if Scotland became Independent.
All this means we are bankrolling the the rest of the UK which is why they are trying so hard to convince the electorate in Scotland that we would be ‘better together’ Nothing to do with the interests of the Scottish people.
They need the economic strength of Scotland to support sterling yet rubbish the idea of a monetary union.
Christian Wright,
I did not claim you were part of ‘The’ Project Fear, but that you seemed to be spouting the same pish as they do.
“The polls show us languishing”? really?
Did you get this information from the Scotsman?
We have saw a steady melting away of the ‘No’ support, as well as an increase in Yes. The last poll had a 5% turnaround.
Can it be that the owners of the polling companies are the same type of people who own the media? Can it be that the questions are designed to get the answers that certain people are looking for? Has their been a time in the past when the polls looked bad for the SNP, only for their to be a dramatic turnaround as the voting day approached?
The most laughable thing is the idea that all Alex Salmond needs to do is call the BBC bias out and that they will put their hands up and except this!
This would be like manna from heaven for BT. Can you imagine what the MSM’s response would be to that? don’t you see that this would be the perfect excuse to paint AS as someone who (like all Nationalists) doesn’t want the Media to challenge him, bla bla bla.