The subject of ruin
We haven’t seen this published anywhere else, so we may as well do it. We dropped a brief line to the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust a few days ago querying their award of a £50,000 grant to disgraced lying MP Alistair Carmichael, specifically in the context of the fact that their own website expressly excludes grants for “legal fees”.
Below is their response, which we received today.
Thank you for your email regarding the Trust’s grant to Alistair Carmichael MP.
The Trust’s position is articulated on our website, along with some answers to common questions. Doubtless you will note a decision in this area comes down partly to whether someone who has defended themselves successfully in court should nonetheless find themselves the subject of financial ruin.
On balance, our Directors decided this would be a disproportionate consequence of the case. Considering these circumstances, they decided it was reasonable to provide some assistance to someone who, despite his serious and acknowledged errors of judgement, has undoubtedly done a lot of good for his constituency, for Scotland and for the United Kingdom.
While we recognise that you are unlikely to agree with the Trust’s decision, we are sure you will be aware that the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd. is not a charity, and is therefore able to make grants for political and campaigning purposes, as it sees fit. For clarity, it may be helpful to know that the guidelines on our website are there to guide applicants. Directors are, however, free to make any grant they believe to be warranted.
The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd. is also completely separate from the other organisations named after our founder, Joseph Rowntree, and has made clear throughout that they have not had any role in making this or any of our other grants. Our boards, priorities and governance are all totally separate.
I apologise for this impersonal response but we received a large number of emails on this matter and I am not able to answer them all individually. The Trust has only a very small office team whose time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations supported by the Trust. I am sorry but I am not able to enter into further correspondence on this issue.
Thank you again for writing.
Yours sincerely
Tina Walker
Trust Secretary
“We’re Lib Dems, we do what we want” would have been shorter, as would “Nobody likes us, we don’t care”. But there it is.
The English support their own and their supporters at every opportunity. It’s in their genes.
“The Trust has only a very small office team whose time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations supported by the Trust. ”
Human rights, just not for Scots.
Yup – got the same letter today. At least we boosted their postage bill.
‘Defended himself successfully in court????. Aye right, liar.
Must be the same office the Beeb has as the response from them regarding question time is identical.
Maybe if I see a Lieb Dem again in my lifetime I will ask them for a better answer ?
So, lie and cheat it doesn’t matter anymore.
Welcome to the LibDems manifesto!
So, it’s not to pay his legal fees. It’s to help the poor wee soul in his time of need. Do you think they would have given the Orkney Four a handout if they had been saddled with legal costs?
I suspect not.
Oooft,
“a decision in this area comes down partly to whether someone who has defended themselves successfully in court should nonetheless find themselves the subject of financial ruin.”
The judge certainly didn’t see it that way, glad to note that they received a lot of “emails on this matter” 🙂
I’ll reword the last paragraph for them though:
“I apologise for this impersonal response but we received a large number of hate on this matter and I am not able to answer them all individually. The Trust has only a very small office team whose time is spent on assisting the many Lib Dem, Lib Dem and Lib Dem organisations supported by the Trust. I am sorry but I am not able to enter into further correspondence on this issue. Now fuck off”
You’re welcome.
We know our website says we do not fund legal fees but hey wee Alistair is one of our own so why the hell not … eh? 😉
I believe some folks might just call this keeping it in the family … so to speak. A bunch of liars combine to obfuscate and defend another liar as well as assisting said liar in his quest to pay his legal fees by handing over £50,000 to him … no questions asked … no answers received! 😀
So, it is basically a slush fund for Lib Dem or Unionists in trouble financially.
They cover all the bases.
Wonder who donations come from?
Doubtless you will note a decision in this area comes down partly to whether someone who has defended themselves successfully in court should nonetheless find themselves the subject of financial ruin.
Pardon the ignorance of the village idiot here but since when has LOSING two out of the three legal points raised in the case been recognised as WINNING?
From my little village idiot perspective LOSING two out of the three points means Carmichael LOST! He did not WIN anything!
So, If i read this correct “For clarity, it may be helpful to know that the guidelines on our website are there to guide applicants.” he applied for this grant knowing it would get rejected … and got it any way.. or no application was made and his mates just offered it to him anyway? either way it’s not right.
This paragraph in this letter:- ‘The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd. is also completely separate from the other organisations named after our founder, Joseph Rowntree, and has made clear throughout that they have not had any role in making this or any of our other grants. Our boards, priorities and governance are all totally separate.’ seems at odds with what is written on their website (see below) or am I just reading it wrong?
“The JRSST Charitable Trust (Charity Registration No. 247498) is endowed by the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Limited and only gives grants in areas closely related to the work of the main Trust. The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Limited is a non-charitable trust of which all the directors are trustees of The JRSST Charitable Trust.”
The following commercial should not come as a surprise:
The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust
We are always ready to give some back pocket dosh to flaky politicians with only a wink and a nod. So make us happy – lie to your constituents, the public and the media. Lie in court. Lost money because of your mendacity? Contact us. Were here to help. Remember, lying can be profitable when you’re with The Trust.
“Frenchgate – a Case of Quaker Agency Capture?” which you can find on Bella. The author argues that “I have been drawn to the sorry conclusion that the Carmichael scandal is the small issue. The bigger issue, for Friends at least, is that it appears as if what we thought was one of “our” charitable trusts has undergone agency capture – to serve as a honey pot for the Liberal Democrats party”. If true, the response you got Stuart is hardly a surprise.
You can find the article here
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Do you think they would give a grant to pay a long overdue Policing bill?
they decided it was reasonable to provide some assistance to someone who, despite his serious and acknowledged errors of judgement, has undoubtedly done a lot of good for his constituency, for Scotland and for the United Kingdom.”
In reality, another unionist disgraced liar was about to get caught, so confessed.
If only they’d used the phone box outside to phone disgraced liars at the Torygraph, we’d all be none the wiser.
They must have calculated confessing before getting accused was the best bet for his career. If his donors were not actually nothing but another bunch of British bullshitters, they’d pressure Carbuncle to hold a by-election.
But ofcourse that’s not how it works UKOK style.
In other words, the verbage we used to disguise the fact that we were indeed paying for legal fees is simply that. As long as you don’t ask for legal fees we can simply choose to give them. In addition it implies Charmichael didn’t actually ask for help but was deemed worthy of a grant without doing so.
Not sure about which part of maintaining existing electoral law chimes with the aims of a reforming organisation.
I suppose it depends on how you parse the sentence,
link to jrrt.org.uk
“Worse still, the effect on case law would have been to subject many
more legitimately elected Members of Parliament to the risk of personal bankruptcy
in defending themselves in court against vexatious and highly political claims.”
Does that mean “many more” or “more legitimately” ? Is the line break just an unfortunate accident?
Why don’t the Orkney Four, just like Carmichael did, send a ‘begging letter’ to this Trust?
The 4 should ask for £50,000k also, so that the scales of justice are balanced and justice is seen to be done. This would then redress the damage done to the TRust’s reputation.
£50K from the Orkney 4 fund could then be sent to foodbanks, as the 4 always stated excess funds would go to foodbanks.
Surely that is something more akin to the spirit of the funds set up by the philanthropist Quaker, Joseph Rowntree?
Perhaps the libdems could ask the Trust to pay the outstanding Police Scotland bill?
“…defended themselves successfully in court should nonetheless find themselves the subject of financial ruin.”
Um – maybe Ali Carmichael should have thought about “financial ruin” BEFORE spouting his lies.
Establishment closing ranks, protecting their own. Why are we unsurprised.
I wonder if Rhona works for Rowntree?
Still some questions i’d like answered, like when precisely did the liar know he was getting funded? Did the liar approach the trust first or did the trust approach the liar or was there an intermediary and if so who ? Guess i’ll never know, because as the trust says we will do as we please now sod off plebs..
Sorry folks but I couldn’t help myself. 😀
I just sent a polite request to the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, via Twitter, asking them to please change their name. 😉
@JRRT1904 can you please change your name to the LibDem Slush fund thank you link to wingsoverscotland.com …
Well they couldn’t have made that any clearer. I prefer the Rev’s snappier version in the last sentence though.
Politics as it is practiced in the UK – Q.E.D
I have just asked the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, again via Twitter, George that very question. 😀
@JRRT1904 as you gave £50,000 to Carmichael perhaps you’d consider giving £800,000 to Scots LDs to pay off long outstanding police bill
How low can they go,what’s next the liars book : Confessions of a Political Hitman
#Yoonmafia
#Libdemshamelessness
Get Out
I have just had another wee brain storming moment here thanks mainly due to those who have suggested the Orkney 4 will, undoubtedly, be receiving a cheque for £50,000 from the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust in the name of openness and balance. 😀
Of course, as is my want, I did it through the medium of
danceTwitter. 😀@JRRT1904 as the Orkney 4 WON 2 out of 3 legal points and therefore WON overall you will be donating £50,000 to them as well for balance
Just think, if Scotland had went “back in the box” after September 2014, these kind of things would still be secretive.
The scary thing is, despite the incredible worked being carried out by the Rev and the Wings team, it is probably only scratching the surface of what is going on.
In Chicago and nowadays elsewhere it’s normally called A Slush Fund.
Rev wrote:
“Nobody likes us, we don’t care”.
Av herd dat afore sumwhere?
Ah yes! It’s the infamous cry fae Govans very aine Castle Greyskull.
The JRF? Supporters of filthy lying scumbags.
Carbuncle is a disgrace to Scotland.
A stinking slimy cretinous creature not fit for the sewers.
@ speedbert
@ drawdeaddave
I read in their rules that they did not accept unsolicited applications, so, that would suggest they asked Carmichael to apply for a grant.
Re the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust.
Four of the six Directors and Staff of above have current or previous connections with the Liberal Party.
Also Danny G Alexander served as a Director, 2007-10.
link to jrrt.org.uk
Mmm, I get it.
“I am a director of Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd and if I wanted to give myself a grant for a new car as the other one needs a wash, I can, so there”.
Will it be classed as taxable income?
Is anyone really surprised at this disgraceful episode.
After all, Baron Bruce of Benncachie has made it clear, all Lie Dem politicians lie – it’s what they do.
No more Rowntrees sweets for me then, just in case any of the profits still go to this discredited Lie Dem slush fund.
The simple answer to Carmichael’s legal bill is that if he’s unable to pay it off outright, he can make a list of his incomes and outgoings, work out his disposable income, if any, and work out how much he can pay on a weekly basis.
Because of the Conservative Government which his party the LibDems supported in office, millions of people in the UK are having to do just exactly that.
From where does the JR Reform Trust get its money?
As far as I can tell, none of the Rowntree Charities are registered with the Scottish Charities Commission although they do see fit to do research on Scotland and issue reports on Scotland.
Well,well Rev that’s you telt we are libs and we can do as we like so B***** off.
Poor Carbuncle needs the money.
I think Ali Carmichael needs to update his entry in the ‘REGISTER OF MEMBERS’ FINANCIAL INTERESTS’ as at 21st March, 2016 which shows only £34,000 from Rowntree Trust. What happened to the other £16,000, Carmichael?
Carmichael, Mr Alistair (Orkney and Shetland)
3. Gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources
Name of donor: Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd
Address of donor: The Garden House, Water End, York. YO30 6WQ
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: £34,000 to help meet my legal costs
Date received: 25 January 2016
Date accepted: 19 February 2016
Donor status: company, registration number 357963 (Registered 18 March 2016)
From here: link to publications.parliament.uk
Tweeters, start tweeting
Bloggers, start blogging
Facebookers, start facebooking
They may have gotten away with doing it that doesn’t mean folk shouldn’t know they did it
We’re bigger than you, we’ve got more money than you,
we are Joseph Rowntree get stuffed
29 SNP MPs front paged and accused of nothing proven against them, a political record in the first year of any political party but once again a dodgy Yoon MP who’s a proven liar in court gets assistance from the Yoonited Yoondom which in my book makes them just as culpable as him and their reason, or excuse, oh dear poor soul it’s no fair on the lying Bastirt
2016 And a Judge says this man’s a liar and tried to smear the First Minister of Scotland with complete and utter lies
but that’s OK coz it’s only Scotland and they don’t count
Easy to see why some Irish folks lost their tempers and still hate them today
I’m off down the pub to see Murphy the spy
“From where does the JR Reform Trust get its money?”
….
“Fruit pastilles do go a long long way,” or was it, “bet you can’t stop yourself from chewing”? Grey matters beginning to thin a bit I think. Anyway, no more fruit pastilles for me.
Ah – found it:
link to jrrt.org.uk
So Carmichael is caught lying, he admits he lied, the court states that he lied, everybody now knows he deliberately lied about the First Minster and the French government, while being a UK government minster but did not admit to his lies until after he was re-elected as a MP.
Therefore the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust believes this entitles Alistair Carmichael to £50,000 pounds for his legal fees.
Would the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust also like to pay some money towards the cost of the enquiry to find out who had lied about the “frenchgate” material to the press. Which would not have been needed if Carmichael had admitted his lies right at the start.
Carmichael does not deserve any money from that Trust, and the Libdem board members who voted him that money should resign in disgrace and shame.
Politics can be a dirty affair, but what we have found out this past week about the libdems and the Joseph Rowntree reform trust really stinks. Who the fuck would ever trust or vote for the libdems ever again.
Rev: is there a way to find out who donates to this old pals club if they are not a charity?
Willie Rennie, Tavish Scott, I hope that you are proud of yourselves.
Who would vote for such a bunch of self serving back scratchers?
The irrepairable damage to the reputation of the Joseph Rowantree Trust/Charity which this blatant abuse of trust money represents is their for all to see.
Who the feck do you think you are? We the people will not put up with this elitist crap any more.
Carmichael lied through his teeth..for his own personal gain and a seat on the gravy train back to Westminster.
The Lib Dems..a long line of corrupt politicians in it for themselves..and feck Scotland.
Who the hell do you think you are talking to us as though we don’t matter, and that the normal rules of human decency and behaviour do not apply to you as you are our Betters?
In May we shall consign your little elitist Unionist party to the bin; and no’ before time.
Still have to ask if they can make donations for legal fees why the didn’t just say so rather than saying,
“to uphold existing case law about the circumstances in which a legitimately elected MP can be unseated”
More to the point, surely if an MP is unseated then by definition they can’t be considered to be legitimately elected?
There would have been no need for a trial if he had resigned which was what the Orkney 4 wanted – a fair By- Election. But he went for a trial, he went for the Orkney 4 for punitive costs which would have bankrupted us however, we had the support of over 10,000 ordinary people, people who want to see the end of lying politicians. Carmichael had his own crowd fund but due to his lack of support ,in Orkney, in Shetland and indeed throughout Scotland & the UK he could only raise a paltry amount. He earns a very good salary (as does his wife) so is not short of a bob or two.
How the fekk can Carmichael be skint, when he’s earned 100s of thousands each year? Must have some lifestyle if he was facing financial ruin.
@Susan McDiarmid
I believe that the Rowntree Trusts derive their income from the long term investments of the money which Joseph Rowntree endowed for charitable causes.
If the endowment is big enough the charity will never need a new source.
It reminds me of Norway’s oil fund. – They can spend the income but the capital keeps increasing.
So it I up to the good folk of Orkney to unseat the lying bastard since it seems the ‘@ establishment @ can lie and do as it pleases.
Could someone tell me why Police Scotland does not pursue moneys owed to them by the liars in the Liberal Democrat Party? Liberal with lies , grasping with money and undemocratic in attitude.
Bane ONE good thing he did for Scotland???
@George Clark 3:39pm
@Arbroath 1320 3:52pm
Folks, that “bill” was paid a while back. Seems you and I paid it.
link to whatdotheyknow.com
“For clarity, it may be helpful to know that the guidelines on our website are there to guide applicants.”
Why would someone, having read the guidelines, then apply for a grant for ‘legal fees’ ?
Is the Rev missing a trick here?
As a long term LibDem supporter, perhaps the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust might consider a wee donation to WoS to assist in the pursuit of free and open democracy. £50k seems to be a nice round sum to ask for.
@ Proud Cybernat
That’s some statement you linked to.
I tried archiving it but it will not take.
For those who missed it here it is again.
link to jrrt.org.uk
Looks like it’s down to the good folk of O & S to tip the bubbling cauldron of Fib Dem puss right back in their lieberal faces.
If anyone wants to do a bit of research into the JRRT, I suggest that they start with this website link to companycheck.co.uk and use a few helpful search terms such as “JRRT” on its own, and the more obvious “Joseph Rowntree”. Remember, the JRRT lot ARE NOT directly associated with the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
I did notice that there was a pile of cash/assets put into the accounts in 2014. Just saying.
I’m a bit busy just now, otherwise I’d spend a bit of time digging further myself.
Over to the Wings Ferrets. 🙂
Rest easy, folks. Your favourite sweeties are LibDem free.
Rowntree’s sweeties have been owned by Nestle (that’s a whole other can of worms) for some time.
Proud Cybernat says:4:30
Two things struck me about the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust’s statement dated 24 March 2016 is that it gave the grant to prevent “against vexatious and highly political claims.” This is incorrect, in formulation and delivery, the Court of Session already ruled that the claimants were justified in their claim and it was not vexatious, by making this statement the trust have put themselves above the court, have stated publicly that the court was incompetent in its ruling.
Further the statement that they have “promoted democratic reform and defended civil liberties in Britain – causes that are at the very heart of the Trust’s purpose” cannot stand in relation to the Carmichael the liars case. civil liberties are the defence of the populous against the tyranny of the state, Carmichaels lies were he openly admits an abuse of power, i.e. the state used as a undemocratic force against democracy.
To get to this position they have prostituted their very being and usurped the beliefs and intention of their founders.
In this action by lying down with the dog, they have just caught his flees !
If Joseph Rowntree bequeathed his money for charitable causes,then why is a branch which has a non charitable status deriving income from the main trust?
It sounds a dodgy way to circumvent charity limitations
@Jim Thomson
Thanks, yes now I remember.
If one of the Unionist parties holds its annual conference in England, the Home Office pays around 85% of the policing bill, meaning that in Scotland we pay 1/12th – 7% of the cost, for a conference which gives us no economical benefit (accomodation, food, general spending).
But of one of the Unionist parties has its conference in Scotland, we pick up 100% of the policing bill, England gets 0%, We do get the economical benefit.
That’s about right for the equitable splitting of costs over the UK, the pooling and sharing aspect of it all, the broad shoulders. We get to share the UK’s costs, and they tell us in Scotland to get stuffed.
More turkey vicar?
HaggisHunter says:
“How the fekk can Carmichael be skint”
Any sensible person would look at an MP or MSP job as temporary to some extent. Saving from what is a well above average income would seem prudent. You may not have the job indefinitely.
He has been fortunate. MP for over 15 years and UK minister for a couple of those,
Most people who found themselves with income like that would have amassed quite a lot of savings!
I hope that the LibDem candidate MSPs for Orkney and Shetland (and everywhere else in Scotland) have some awkward questions to answer at the hustings.
Have the local papers up there covered any of this scandal?
Cuilean says:
31 March, 2016 at 3:43 pm
Why don’t the Orkney Four, just like Carmichael did, send a ‘begging letter’ to this Trust?
What a great idea! (and publish the inevitable rejection letter). 🙂
@Andrew Mclean
Perhaps the JRRT should be reported to the Court of Sessions for possible Contempt.
HaggisHunter says:
“How the fekk can Carmichael be skint”
A bankrupt politician is defined as one who has run out of other people’s money to spend. Politicians are often generous with other people’s money, but don’t ever expect them to dip into their own pockets, especially when it comes to paying bills.
@galamcennalath
Carmichael was previously chief whip for the LibDems.
“Government ministers, the Speaker of the House of Commons and Deputy Speakers, as well as the Leader of the Opposition and Opposition Chief and Deputy Chief Whips
are entitled to a salary in addition to their salaries as Members of Parliament. ”
From 2010, an extra £26,000 a year.
I can’t say I’m shocked or surprised, nor even “astonished”. Lie-(non)dems, backing a fellow Lie-(non)dem.
In June, if the rest of the UK votes exit there will be another IndyRef. The lying LibDems days are numbered.
link to parliament.uk
So as chief whip for 3 years, if eligible as a Coalition partner, plus Minister of State for 2 at £41,370, a total of £160,000, after higher rate tax and NI, Carmichael would have trousered a cool extra £80,000.
Not so much rags to riches, as riches to riches.
@ Luigi.
This Rowntree board is mostly LibDem. Go figure.
@orri, from the JRRT: “Worse still, the effect on case law would have been to subject many more legitimately elected Members of Parliament to the risk of personal bankruptcy in defending themselves in court against vexatious and highly political claims.”
In view of the Court of Sessions ruling that it wasn’t vexatious, the Orkney Four might want to consider if they have been defamed by that published claim.
Mmm, in time-honoured tradition, for that potential defamation from JRRT, the Orkney Four could require a public apology, and a donation to charity.
£50,000 sounds about right, to their crowdfund. Any excess going to foodbanks.
I’m sure, JRRT not being a charity but a tax-paying business, their accountant could find a way to make it tax deductible.
Everyone a winner.
The disgraced Carmichael is a liar and a cheat.
If I commit a criminal offense by lying officially on say my tax return, and as a result get sacked from my job, and so face “financial ruin”, can I get money from those guys? In such circumstances, I would be happy to openly admit my “errors of judgement” (i.e Lying), and get personal recommendations about the “good” I have previously done for my local area, Scotland and the United Kingdom.
The only question is, would I need to be a lying liberal democrat MP in order to qualify, given the board of trustees is dominated by Liberal democrats.
Seriously what a cynical bunch, ending their response with “The Trust has only a very small office team whose time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations supported by the Trust”
Please do tell me what paying the legal fees of a corrupt liar has to do with human rights, democratic reform or civil liberties.
Seriously, I don’t care if this organisation is a charity or not, handing out thousands of pounds to self confessed liars who have just been verbally condemned by two of Scotland’s highest law lords in Scotland’s highest court, is NOT WHAT JOSEPH ROWNTREE INTENDED.
No wonder Quakers are angry.
“defending themselves in court against vexatious and highly political claims.”
Whit? Carmichael only got off on the technicality that his lies weren’t personal but were POLITICAL.
Couldn’t these guys have employed an honest Administrator with the money they have wasted on the Lying, Cheating, Miscreant that
is their Party Colleague, Carmichael?
Could they give the Scottish People some money to replace the £1,000,000 that they lost on an Inquiry into Carmichael’s
deception?
The Scots were innocent and Carmichael’s action is Criminal,
as far as I, and the majority of Scots, are concerned.
The Taking The LIBerty Party must surely wonder why they have never held a parliamentary majority in 100 years?
It is astounding, to me, that this matter is not being shouted from the rooftops in our wonderful media – it is akin to massive financial fraud.
Those Libdems have taken over a ‘branch’ of a famous charitable organisation and now use it as a slush fund to aid any Libdem they like.
I find it so frustrating that we can only debate amongst ourselves (knowing nothing will ever be done!) against such practice. How long can this frustration go on for?
There should not be a Liberal hustings anywhere in Scotland that doesn’t have someone bringing this matter up.
Sadly, a few minutes ago I had the Labour ‘poisoned dwarf’ MSP chapping my door – how I wish it had been a Libdem! Then I could really have let off some steam.
Get me out of this corrupt union, please.
SNP X2
Off topic
Well that is me cleaning the mince and tatties of the TV screens having had to witness Britannia TV Aberdeen SNP BAD bile. It is every bit as poisonous as the Brit Nat Brainwashing Corps Disreporting Jackie Show.
Plenty of Scotland Bad guff to raise the hackles as well. The Wisemans announcement, Hydro closing it shops, BP shrilly shallying over investment. More doom and gloom. But they couldn’t stop there.
There was a quite blatant attempt in my eyes to smear and taint Nicola Sturgeon over the Glasgow Mosque Investigation. At that point the supper hit the screen.
So SLAB is now against the NP Bill that they voted for and are now crawling about in the political gutter with the Tories for the lunatic right wing vote.
Why don’t they just go the full Trump, STV Aberdeen would love then for that. What can we expect next from SLAB and the Tories – Punishing women who have abortions?
yesindyref2 wrote @ 5:48PM
In view of the Court of Sessions ruling that it wasn’t vexatious, the Orkney Four might want to consider if they have been defamed by that published claim.
I suspect the JRRT would attempt to weasel out by claiming that they hadn’t actually said that the Orkney Four’s case of vexatious, merely that if Carmichael had been bankrupted by his legal fees then it might have opened the floodgates to vexatious claims against other MPs.
I suspect the Orkney Four might well want to put the entire event behind them at this point, and who could blame them, but I suspect that if they did decide they had been defamed then the crowdfunded legal expenses might well ride to the rescue again.
For clarity, it may be helpful to know that the guidelines on our website are there to guide applicants. Directors are, however, free to make any grant they believe to be warranted.
…translates as; “There are one set of rules for you and another set for us”
…we are sure you will be aware that the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd. is not a charity, and is therefore able to make grants for political and campaigning purposes, as it sees fit.
…translates as “Fudge off!”
Has the lying MP declared the £50,000 in the register of parliamentry interests?
Someone please check and refer him if he hasn’t done it
That’s a fair point. If they are not a charitable organisation, how can they give someone £50k without someone paying tax. Shouldn’t that be treated as income?
I suppose that they might get a way by insisting that they intended the interpretation to acknowledge that whilst the legitimacy of an election is binary there might still be some that are more questionable than others. In there summary of why the gave the grant they demonstrated they didn’t understand that if an MP is legitimately elected then there’s no legal way, at the moment, for him to be unseated, at least not through an Election Court.
Obviously saying,
“Many MPs who’s elections’ legitimatcies were less open to question would face vexatious legal challenges motivated by politics” would be more accurate and not skim the edges of defamation and contemporary of court.
The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust – a branch of the LibDem Party.
We undermine justice at any cost.
Hmmmm …
link to dailymail.co.uk
Do you mind if I make a serious point? According to the House of Commons register at link to publications.parliament.uk , the original £34k was received on 25 January tho not ‘accepted’ until 19 February. In between those dates, on 8 February there was a court hearing on expenses in which Carmichael’s counsel told the court that his client had to pay all his expenses, at £150k. This donation was never mentioned to the court, which was left with the picture that except for the £15k crowdfunded AC was having to pay all his own bills and he was ‘not a rich man’ so this was very hard. I can’t see why a LibDem slush fund (they aren’t a charity in spite of some comments above) shouldn’t support a LibDem if they want to, but what does this say about AC? He must have applied to them in late 2015 while keeping this secret even from his own lawyers. And if he’d won expenses from the O4, I don’t suppose he’d have ‘accepted’ the money on 19 Feb.
Don’t forget the LibDums Mum!
Not convinced,
The fact that they mentioned vexatious claims gives the reason for the payment, it is not the place in any democratic state for a third party to protect the legislature against claims, that is the responsibility of the court. They cannot protect against vexatious claims it is beyond them.
Again their actions are in direct contravention with their stated beliefs. Carmichael lied as Secretary of State for Scotland, he was a full cabinet member of the government. In jumping in and protecting the Secretary of State from the effects of his corruption they defend tyranny.
Just like the UK “Constitution” then, a set of guidelines that can be broken whenever it suits those in charge.
Graeme James Borthwick
I don’t want to come across as if I think I’m something special but we don’t need ethnic prejudice here, thank you very much.
Perhaps you meant the Establishment looks after it’s own, rather than the English people? Perhaps not?
He did not “defend himself successfully” in court; he ADMITTED wrongdoing, but was let off on a technicality. In that situation, is it not traditional to award coats. The judge was sending a message. FFS!
I used to be naive enough to think that the Libdems were a cut above Lab/Tory and had a genuine moral code. They clearly don’t. They truly are a discredited organisation in my eyes.
Surely their past supporters must be becoming increasingly aware of their shortcomings. I will be very interested to see how many support them in May. Those who do are clearly no better than their leaders.
Gloves off in dealing with LibDems.
O/T
I have an acquaintance with appropriate professional qualifications and long years service in the NHS in NHS laboratories, plus service to his union at high level. He was listening to BBC Scotland this morning and the subject of contaminated water somewhere in the Aberdeen area came up. As he has campaigned on this subject because of the quality? of the water supply in this area he phoned up to offer his views and expertise.
Having indicated his professional interest in this issue
he was asked what he wanted to contribute and them asked if he was a member of any political party. He agreed yes and then when pressed indicated he was member of the SNP.
Silence at the other end
No phone back
Is there some kind of political broadcasting purdah in operation at the BBC at the moment. Does anybody know?
In my over fifty years of political activity the most hypocritical and devious (and very often nasty) opponents have been LibDems. They are a group who generally believe in nothing but what the listener wants to hear
@Dave McEwan Hill
Was that always so, or just over the last 5 or 6 years?
In my travels around GE time I heard two or three stories, including one that left the LibDems because of it. Can’t give details, but they confirm what you just said.
They say they are not a charity. What is the source of the funds they throw around without regard for moral justification of any kind.
The generous handout to Carmichael isn’t even merely an infringement of the “no legal fees” ban, the JRRT’s statement of aims clearly indicates that their overall purpose is essentially to stand up for the “little guy” against overweening authority, as their founder intended. So if the committee were actually following their own clear guidelines, they should have been donating to the Orkney Four, not a discredited lying UK ex-Secretary of State!
This is an outrageous blatant FibDem fix. They are in effect stealing Rowntree’s Quaker legacy and funnelling it into their own little party. Their arrogance (and/or desperate sense of isolation) is so entrenched that they are completely blind to, or regardless of, the extremely negative effect that it is having on their reputation among the voting public. Basically they are now electoral toast!
Anyone know if Robert Peffers is OK? Haven’t seen any posts from him in a while.
We all know Carmichael won’t be left paying a penny of his legal bill. No doubt a few wealthy Tories will help to bale him out also. After all, he took one for the team.
Oh, in answer to Bob Mack @ 15:32 (if he is still reading!), I believe that the money originally came from the sale of the last tranche of Rowntree-Mackintosh shares that were still held. Apparently the Quakers were unhappy over some of the activities of the confectionery business and when they found they couldn’t influence these decisions they decided to disinvest completely and use the proceeds to fund their socially benevolent activities independently.
If you look at the JRRT company records you will see that they have subsidiary companies that operate in the housing and other sectors. At least some of their funds therefore likely come from those business investments. But the seed money essentially came from the Quakers, and rightly still belongs to them. Many were also Liberals so their interests once coincided, but increasingly it seems the FibDems behaviour is estranging them from the Society of Friends. (And no wonder!)
Anyone know why the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards’ enquiry into Carmichael’s conduct is taking so long? How can this take longer than the much more cumbersome and less used legal process of the special Election Court?
Certainly in the interests of the Lib Dems for no adverse conclusions before the May elections, especially in Orkney and Shetland.
The Law Society of Scotland
Rule B1.2: Trust and personal integrity
1.2 You must be trustworthy and act honestly at all times so that your personal integrity is beyond question. In particular, you must not behave, whether in a professional capacity or otherwise, in a way which is fraudulent or deceitful
I searched for the term “lying” and had zero response.
Any lawyers out there to confirm if Carmichael could be subject to censure in some shape or form? Should he also declare that he is on (Rowntree’s) Social? Surely the Law Society could help the poor soul out?
The subject of ruin? Subject of ridicule more like.
Dave McEwan Hill
re OT BBC and water quality.
Don’t worry about your pal not getting on the radio… Pennington was on. The bug man extraordinaire. I know some guys whose views on this man would make a bacterium commit mitosis. He is no water engineer based on his answers but got off lightly.
Always thought it funny during BBC debates in Aberdeen that he would be sitting near the front in the audience and be lucky enough to ask a question. What’s the odds on that!!
“…time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations supported by the Trust.”
They clearly have no idea what democracy means. Who funds this organisation?
Some days ago, I sent an e-mail to JRRT urgently requesting a grant of £34,000 on behalf of discredited MP Anon Chump (this was before the revelation of an additional £16,000 to The Liar). I particularly asked that the request be expedited to his chums the Directors.
What on earth is going on with these people? I haven’t even had a reply yet! =grin=
O/t
I posted yesterday that I was concerned about the possibility of a fucking stupidity virus infecting Scotland, not to be confused with the normal yooon the loon stupidity virus, the fucking stupidity strain is extremely potent and can be passed by touch.
So imagine my shock and horror when looking at the Rev,s Twitter and seeing that the entire Aberdeenshire conservatives can’t spell “unionists”, come on at least one of them should have seen!
Capella asks
Who funds this organisation?
See my posting @ 21.01…
Two posts worth reading.
link to derekbateman.scot
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
“The Trust has only a very small office team whose time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations supported by the Trust.”
Then instead of giving £50k to a liar, a deceiver, and a destroyer of democracy and justice, they could have employed two or three assistants with the money.
But that would mean doing a decent thing, and we can’t have JRTT doing that.
For any WOS masochists one of the horses at Aintree on Saturday is called Unioniste! Fire in!
Perhaps Carmichael has done enough to get thrown out of the LSoS. Kind of puts an end to going back to a legal career if so.
Now he may not be charged for breaking the Official Secrets Act as that’s entirely up to the authorities but unless the findings have been snuck out there was an ongoing investigation into a potential breech of the Ministerial Code. Put on hold until the dust settled on the court case as I remember.
Let’s also bare in mind that he was gleefully announcing that he’d stick the complaints with ruinous costs for even attempting to challenge him. Not sure who he owes the money too though. If it’s the lawyers and not the courts then it’s up to them how soon they want paid and whether they’ll accept installments. Technically as there’s been a statement of costs given waiving those fees might be considered a donation of services in kind and thus need to be registered.
Maybe Joe rowntree can pile on the dough onto the gee gee,recoup that outlay!
Scottish LibDems website currently ‘ unavailable’
Wonder why?
O/T re the Port Talbot debacle
I see that the tories have 14 our of 60 Welsh assembly seats. Wonder how many will be left after the May election.
link to senedd.assembly.wales
In terms of HoC tory members with welsh seats, there are 11.
link to en.wikipedia.org
I do hope they have a few by-elections soon.
The only good thing about Alistair Carmichael is that he’s a constant reminder of the self serving greedy Yoons, and the corrupt British State system, that Scotland needs to get away from.
I wonder about the background of the JRRT directors? That might reveal a vested interest.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
I completely agree re LibDems tactics being probably the worst of the main parties. It’s gone on all the time since the 1960s when I first got actively involved. Pleased to see my constituency’s libdem getting hauled over the coals on the front page of the National for his latest lying leaflet. Joseph Rowntree will be birling in his grave with his name being associated with funding a disgraced MP.
@ Adam Davidson
The JRRT has 6 trustees. 4 of them, including the chairman, are Lib Dems.
Quelle surprise.
O/T
Another blog worth a read, IMO.
link to tinyurl.com
Strange goings on in Kirkwall…
link to bbc.co.uk
The key thing for me is where does the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust actually get its money from? If it’s main funder is the Lib Dems themselves then its behaviour seems a lot less reprehensible. If on the other hand it is dependent on donors who give under the assumption that the JRRT is a neutral political entity then its current behaviour deserves a lot more detailed scrutiny.
Looks like the Tory immigration policy has hit the front page of the National tomorrow.
Did anyone watch the Kiltr/Commonspace/Indylive interview with John McTernan?
I just had a go, and lasted eight minutes…
Kudos to them for doing it, and to be fair, to McTernan for agreeing to take part, but it would be good to see a highlights package, if such a thing is possible.
link to livestream.com
I hope people wake up to the reality of LibDem politics.
The public face is sweet and sincere with your interest their main concern.
The reality is much, much more at odds with that image.
They are the most vile, nasty campaigners it has been my misfortune to come against.
They have teams focused on digging up every piece of data that can be spun against their opponent.
They will invent negative spin pieces if required.
During the YES/Referendum campaign the nastiest abuse we received on the stalls was from LibDem unionists.
They are more Tory than the Tories as we witnessed in the last government at Westminster. Do not underestimate this group of cretins and their false claims.
SNP hold Maryfield ward on Dundee City Council.
link to t.co
Far more candidates than normal. SNP did well to take nearly 50% 1st preference votes.
So basically it seems the LibDems should rename themselves the Dark Energy Party.
the point, “office team whose time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations supported by the Trust” is blatantly admitting that they have a bias, as the human rights of those affected by a liar have been ignored. ‘Supported by the Trust’, is obviously the Lib Dem’s, [ Mr Carmichael being an Organisation?] and, if you have nothing to do with Joseph Rowntree, then drop the name and add Lib Dem funding Trust, to abide by the law of MP finances. No justification of this case will alter the injustice of his lies, which JRRT disregard.
Yesindyref2
Not sure about that. Dark energy seems to be expanding rapidly – the Liberals are contracting rapidly. I see they came 6th in the Dundee by election tonight.
Labour took a big dunt too – the runes are not good for the Unionist parties.
Today being April Fool’s Day the newspaper headlines should now match with the rest of the year.
@Marcia:
Aye here is the first contender:
link to archive.is
@H&S
I was thinking more in terms that dark energy is causing their universe to dissipate faster so that ultimately they’ll be so far from reality they won’t even be able to see each other, let alone anyone else. No big bang for them.
If you look at the directors page on their website, you’ll see a current sitting Lib Dem peer, an ex-Lib Dem MP, and about three others with ties to the Liberals or Lib Dems. Looks like a pretty blatant case of them pushing an agenda of all things Lib Dem, even when that goal conflicts with their stated aim of electoral reform. They wouldn’t have paid the plaintiffs legal fees had they asked despite the fact they were legitimately trying to hold a lying MP to account. Disgraceful. A mealy mouthed reply.
It’s April 1st every day for the DAILY (Doolally) RECORD.
Just watched the McTernan interview as alluded to above.
Make way for a new Labour party, to be known as “The Murphy/McTernan Party”, party slogan to be, “The’re ah out o step but oor Jock”.
Apologies to The Monster Raving Loony Party.
Happy April Fools’ Day folks!! = )
Umm (whispers) do you think the Rev might play a joke on us?
Nervous. Very nervous.
Ghillie, Just watched the McTernan interview… I think the stream cut just before he said “April Fool” at the end. 😀
If the rest of the UK votes out of the EU in June. There will be another IndyRef. The Unionist liars will be gone. They can take their nuclear dump with them.
It may be April Fools’ Day, but Kezia, the Daily Record and Labour’s Scottish Branch Office are fooling no-one. They’re all gubbed.
Talking of having a laugh, Derek Bateman had a cracking article on his site yesterday where he discusses the talentless labour party and throws in this very quotable line:
“And behind it all is the grim Buddha, Blair McDougall, the Better Together failure.”
Willie Rennie’s in the green room at Pacific Quay, bobbing about on tip-toe, punching the air.
Will Gary ‘The Guvn’r’ Robertson show him the respect he deserves, and mercilessly mock him for a full fifteen minutes?
Robertson slips on his knuckleduster, Willie ducks and weaves against his own shadow, and a nervous nation awaits…
Rennie on the ropes after twelve seconds, gumshield somewhere in the fourth row…
Fifty seconds in, Rennie’s shorts have fallen down and unsightly gaps have appeared between his teeth…
Robertson’s assault momentarily suspended when Rennie squeaks that he has something ‘incredibly important’ to say…but he doesn’t, and The Guvn’r lays back into him…people in the crowd passing out, crying, demanding their money back…
O/T links
link to indyref2.scot
Link for audio of Glenn Campbell spinning yesterday morning
link to twitter.com
link to eyewitnessscot.podbean.com
link to thecanary.co
Rennie promises to ‘inject democracy back into the Police’…irate punters throwing chairs into the ring…
I remember when Carmichael was launched forward from obscurity to the post of Secretary of State, hailed as a “bruiser”.
Not much of a bruiser I thought, otherwise I might have heard about it. I am happy to stand corrected. Mr Carmichael has left the Lib Dems flat on the canvas, black and blue with cuts, bruises and broken nose. Bruiser indeed.
Bruiser, self confessed liar, chancer,… I still think the most surgically damning description of Carmichael remains Secretary of State for Portsmouth, a knockout blow from our Nicola.
Robertson gets Rennie in clinch and mentions ‘fracking’…
Whatever Carmichael receives, from whatever funding source, it will never repair his reputation.
The Orkney four will always be able to hold their heads high. Carmichael will be doing well to see above the gutter sets. He is forever damaged goods.
As for the LibDem Scottish weasels, we get to deliver OUR verdict in May. Show no mercy. SNP/SNP.
O/T links
link to publicfinance.co.uk
link to davidhencke.wordpress.com
link to revolution-news.com
Plan to send 1,000 troops to Libya a disaster
link to forces.tv
Rennie insists that his party has a great chance in the election…ref starts slapping him as well…
@Ian Brotherhood
Brilliant. 😀
Adam Davidson wrote @ 10.29pm:
“I wonder about the background of the JRRT directors? That might reveal a vested interest.”
Adam, check out the following from Jack Murphy @ 4.08pm
“Re the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust.
Four of the six Directors and Staff of above have current or previous connections with the Liberal Party.
Also Danny G Alexander served as a Director, 2007-10.”
link to jrrt.org.uk
_________________________
I wonder how many other corrupt and dodgy Unionists this
Rowntree REFORM Trust as helped? All those Unionist Paedophiles?
If that’s “reform” you can ram it right up yer erses. Sickos!
The bbc do have a sense of humour after all. Rennie the april fool on It’s a knockout.
Thanks Ian and thank goodness I no longer listen.
Glen Campbell not just an April Fool.
Don’t let Unionists get their hands on any more tax revenues. The Union costs Scotland £13Billion a year, which could be better spent. Tax evading Non Dom’s should not control the MSM in Britain.
Vote SNP. Vote for Independence.
JRT & Foundation may well be legally separate entities but I now see them as the same, their name and reputation down the gutter.
frogesque:
“Show no mercy”
Definitely the rally call for me.
When I was younger the letters JRRT meant Tolkien. Not sure if there’s a parallel between one of his characters seduced by a ring of power, corrupted and turned into a mockery of the being he once was and Carmichael or not. Certainly the fate of Smeagol probably generates more sympathy from some quarters.
@ian Brotherhood
Crying with laughter on the train.
Wee Willie. Floats like bee, stings like a butterfly.
Ian,
Excellent.
Bill wrote:
“JRRT & Foundation may well be legally separate entities but I now see them as the same, their name and reputation down the gutter.”
Yes, Bill, you and i and many thousands more.
Y’know, on the back of the performances of the establishment party leaders this week, you easily see why they’re in the state they’re in. Worse, their own ideologies and strategies put them there. The irony is epic!
I wonder if they’ll ever spot the flaw in their thinking?
Rennie ‘The man in the white suit’ on GMS radio shortbread, pity he didn’t watch the film to the end before he went on.
We were right about the police?
We were right about education?
and…and…SNP bad Gary!… twice.
I think Gary showed mercy and stopped punching him before the end the little twerp! (Rennie not Gary).
@Ian B
I keep saying we have the brightest, and the funniest on our side.
What a picture you paint.
O/T Is Ian Murray now leading Labour’s campaign as Kezia seems to have gone AWOL if any interviews are required.
What I really enjoy about April the 1st is it’s the only day of the year that the UK media can legally get away with telling lies, other than every day of the year obviously.
Just listened to Oor Wullie on GMS. A drama queen spouting utter drivel. Sounds like he can cure mental illness – “if you get the front door of the hospital right”.
Happy Huntigowk Day!
link to bbc.co.uk
Nothing about this from BBC vote anyone but…
Congrats to by-election victor @LynnesnpR, the 28th victory by @theSNP in 31 by-elections since last May
Half a million quid tea leafed, also not mentioned.
link to bbc.co.uk
Labour MEP who dishonestly claimed almost £500,000 in expenses has been warned he faces a prison sentence.
Ian Brotherhood,
thanks for that.Brilliant.
@Ian Brotherhood.
Brilliant wee cameo: 🙂
Aye no contest: Gallus Rennie indeed.
PS:
Here’s a hoot on Brexit? The royals to speak out! Aye right. 🙂
Another insider said early proposals to do a live broadcast have been rejected in favour of a pre-recorded session because of Philip’s propensity for swearing. “The words have to be perfect,” she said, “but we’ve got time to iron things out between today – 1 April – and June.”
link to archive.is
Very funny Mr Brotherhood. But did you know that Willie’s dad was a boxer?
His mum was a cocker spaniel.
“His mum was a cocker spaniel.”
Don’t you mean a Ukoker spaniel?
It is a fair point that the control room staff could have been enhanced,
if the £800,000 bill for policing a conference was paid!
then perhaps the accident would have been recorded.
We have guidelines but we can ignore them if it suits us. In this regard, we’re much like the SFA.
@Andrew Mclean 11:14am
see my post here link to wingsoverscotland.com
Proud Cybernat
I thought she was damnation but over the years Wee Willie has had the spots knocked off him!
Loops,
Dalmatian, bloody spell check, I must switch it aff.
Jim Thomson, thanks.
It is a fair point that the control room staff could have been enhanced,
if the bill for policing a national conference was paid by the orginiser or one of his trusts insted of being absorbed by police scotland!
then perhaps the accident would have been recorded.
link to bbc.co.uk
Is a report of a report into the failings. Partly down to not enough staff available at the transition to the new arrangement and it being rushed. One thing that came to light was a recommendation that some of the fault was down to existing practices rather than anything new. So it’s possible that this may have happened at any time in the past simply due to workplace illnesses meaning not enough staff were available, more probably during winter. Worth noting that the conclusion was that the switch over be halted until it’d reached stability rather than being abandoned entirely. Presumably once that happened a gradual expansion would run a little smoother.
On a lighter note. Wasn’t part of the wiping of of the Lib Dems debt a declaration to them from Police Scotland that they’d have to fund their own private security rather than expect it for free. A bit like football clubs and other major sports event organisers have to stump up the readies.
On a similar vein, what was the outcome of the inability of the firm meant to supply security for the Olympics having to have their asses covered by the Army? They weren’t paid the whole fee were they?
“….despite his serious and acknowledged errors of judgment….”
When did he acknowledge his lies and deceit? I think his impudent pursuit of the Orkney Four in court to make them pay his expenses gives lie to this statement.
“Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd. is not a charity, and is therefore able to make grants for political and campaigning purposes, as it sees fit
If this organisation is a TRUST, can someone shine a light on whether the TRUST receives any preferential tax relief treatment?
I would find it both unpalatable, and also legally questionable if this LibDem cuckoo brigade that have insidiously taken over a TRUST so they can take the money and fund their own political aims, and in a manner that may at best be ultra vires and worst ILLEGAL.
Answers on a postcard please!
It really is nothing new. I found this while doing a little digging. It’s from 2007. Chris Grayling is complaining that the LibDem’s received £2m from JRRT – link to telegraph.co.uk
“The Trust has only a very small office team whose time is spent on assisting the many democratic reform, human rights and civil liberties organisations”
Perhaps, they could afford more office staff if they weren’t paying so much dosh to malfeasants?
Absolute bag of excrement who have shown that their primary purpose is to bail out liars who willfully set out to defraud the democratic basis. Financial fscists the JRFT has shown itself to be pure and simple thugs every bit as much as brown shirts who would kick heads to influence a vote. This organisation is the enemy of ddmocracy. Pure scum.