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The little guy

Posted on March 23, 2016 by

We hadn’t heard of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust until today. It turns out that it’s a sister organisation to the highly admirable Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which does great work highlighting and fighting issues around poverty and social injustice.


The Reform Trust, not so much.

Because it was revealed today by BuzzFeed that the JRRT has only made one grant so far this year, and given its stated goals of correcting “imbalances of political power” and “strengthening the hands of individuals and organisations striving for reform”, we were rather surprised to discover who it had gone to.


The grant will be extended to £50,000 shortly.

Alistair Carmichael has been the MP for Orkney & Shetland for 15 years. The Lib Dems (or the Liberals) have held the seat for 66 years. If there’s an “imbalance of political power” around it’s certainly not been noticeably affecting Mr Carmichael.

Nor did his party suffer unduly. While only winning 1.7% of seats on a Scottish vote share of 7.5%, the Lib Dems did relatively well – the Conservatives got twice the vote share but the same number of seats, and Labour got more than three times the vote share and the same number of seats.

And the Lib Dems have nobody else to blame for that situation anyway – in 2010 they held the balance of power in the UK parliament but backed down from forcing a referendum on proportional representation, settling instead for what their own leader called the “miserable little compromise” of AV, only to be resoundingly thrashed in the resulting referendum.

Four out of the six directors of the JRRT have close links to the Liberal or Liberal Democrat parties. One is a current Lib Dem peer and the chair was a Lib Dem MP until the party’s electoral apocalypse in 2015.


Alistair Carmichael remains a generously-paid MP and until a few months ago was a government minister on a salary of over £107,000 plus expenses. Having concealed a lie aimed at undermining the democratically-elected First Minister of Scotland until after the election, he scraped home by a majority of 817 votes (down from almost 10,000 in 2010), stretching the definition of “legitimately” to its breaking point.

He wasn’t forced to tell lies, he wasn’t forced to cover them up and he wasn’t forced to defend the court case. He could have taken the honourable course – standing down and then fighting the resulting by-election on his record and character, trusting voters to re-elect him despite one lapse. It would have cost him nothing.

Instead, he pursued a petulant, arrogant, deceitful and vindictive option, aiming to ruin four ordinary constituents with crippling legal bills and seeking punitive costs against them in addition to his own lawyer’s fees. His conduct during the case was so unbecoming and dishonest that while finding him not guilty on a legal technicality, the judges ordered him to pay for his own defence, calling his testaments to the court at best disingenuous, at worst evasive and self-serving.

(Incidentally, the Trust specifically says that it doesn’t give grants for legal fees.)


The plan backfired when the public backed the constituents, crowdfunding over £210,000 for them while Carmichael’s own fundraising campaign struggled to well under a tenth as much, over a third of it coming from a single anonymous donor.

(As far as we can tell the money paid to Carmichael from the fundraiser has still not been declared on the Register Of Members’ Interests, though the JRRT grant has.)


Carmichael has trousered well over a million pounds from the taxpayer over the last 15 years – NOT including expenses – and lives in one of the cheapest areas of the country. (The average house price there is around £35,000 lower than in Scotland as a whole.) He’s had ample opportunity to put a little money away in case he ever wanted to destroy his own dignity and reputation in public.

His court case did not seek to redress any “political imbalance”. Carmichael was the privileged, wealthy bully of the protagonists, and even if he’d been thrown out the Lib Dems would have been the favourites to win any by-election, which would have taken place in their strongest heartland anywhere in the UK.

(A fact which makes a mockery of the Trust’s pathetic, partisan and craven statement in justification of its actions that “Had nationalists succeeded in their case against Alistair Carmichael, they would have worsened further the current misrepresentation of Scottish voters’ views in parliament”The matter would have been placed entirely in the hands of the voters to give their wholly-democratic verdict. First Past The Post is rotten but it’s NOT unfair or unrepresentative in any individual seat, only overall.)


Nor did the case seek to establish any sort of “reform”. All Carmichael tried to do was cling desperately to his own job and ruin ordinary people justly angry at being lied to.

And what he may instead achieve is to disenfranchise them – should the legal costs bankrupt the MP, Parliamentary rules state that he’ll be disqualified from sitting in the Commons and from voting, leaving Orkney & Shetland voters with no voice.


(One might imagine that basic decency would compel him to stand down at that point, but based on his conduct so far basic decency would probably be a forlorn hope.)

We very rarely write outright opinion pieces on this site. But the actions of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust are a disgrace to the honourable name of its founder and to its associated groups. That it still leaves Carmichael over £80,000 short of paying for the consequences of his own malicious hubris is the only saving grace of the entire affair.

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    1. 23 03 16 20:43

      The little guy | Speymouth

    127 to “The little guy”

    1. Scott Borthwick says:

      That’s the last time I buy a Jelly Tot.

    2. Sinky says:

      Rowntree Trust is just a Lib Dem front organisation.

      Don’t suppose this will be picked up by MSM / BBC etc just like the scandal below.

      Imagine the banner headlines if it was an SNP candidate rather than Labour’s Lesley Hinds who is embroiled in a £400,000 fraud investigation.

    3. Alan McHarg says:

      and they say that all publicity is good publicity…watch this space!

    4. Luigi says:

      The LibDems are truly extracting the urine now. This is front page stuff.

      No point in expecting BBC Labour or the tory press to run this sensational story. However, the National really ought to headline it.

    5. David says:

      This is disgusting.

    6. jimnarlene says:

      Would Carmichael be able to sook a fruit pastille, with out blaming the SNP for the chew marks on it?

    7. Helpmaboab says:

      Surely none of us needs reminding that every branch of the British state and every pillar of the British establishment is opposed to Scottish independence?

      After this subsidising of the proven fraudster and liar, Alistair Carmichael MP, we can now safely assume that the Rowntree Reform Trust is one of those establishment pillars.

      The next big questions are these: 1. Who currently controls the Rowntree Reform trust? 2. Where does it derive its income from?

    8. Corzi says:

      Surely the four constituents should have been supported by the Trust in their attempt to “promote democratic reform” rather than the perpetrator

    9. Auld Rock says:

      Hi Scott – correct me if I’m wrong but are Jelly Tots not made by Nestle nowadays? I thought Rowantree sold out sme years ago but I could be otally wrong.

      See that the FIB/Dems have to prise Purvis out of his retirement home to deal with the press.

      Auld Rock

    10. Valkyrie says:

      Just mentioning that Donna Heddle is trying to take the Orkney seat at Holyrood. She has a good chance but has not trousered a million like Carmichael. If you would like to help, she has a modest crowdfunder on the go at

    11. george says:

      i’d presume all of this would have to be declared, even if it is from JRSST charitable trust via the JRRT. it’s not the first time the JRRT has been in the news over payments to MPs

    12. Croompenstein says:

      The case came about after Carmichael authorised the leak of a Foreign Office memo to the Daily Telegraph, in which a French diplomat suggested first minister Nicola Sturgeon wanted David Cameron to win the election in order to boost her own political party

      They just can’t help themselves it’s like James ‘I’ve seen the memo’ Cook charging around George Square to goad the First Minister. And so it goes on and they repeat the lie and back up the discredited MP Carmichael.


    13. carjamtic says:

      Some people suffer from coulrophobia (fear of (evil) clowns).

      Special K,Tank Commander easily spring to mind…this is even off the coulrophobia scale.

      This disgusts me and scares me in equal measure.

    14. James Anderson says:

      Scott Borthwick – quite possibly the most hard-line boycott pledge I’ve ever come across. Quite specific. I feel inspired and may buy a bag, chew the sweetness out of them for a wee bit, then re-bag and post them to Rowntree Customer Complaints.

      Auld Rock – Nestle acquired Rowntree but still trade the brand.

    15. Brian Powell says:

      So he drags Rowntree with him, but willingly it seems, from the make up of the panel.

      The supporters of the Orkney Four, in their thousands, gave from their own pockets, knowing what they were giving to. If the Rowntree R T is funded from public donations then those individuals were misled and their trust abused.

    16. Cath says:

      W.T.F? If your idea of addressing “imbalances of political power” and “strengthening the hands of individuals and organisations striving for reform”, is to help a sitting MP who lied his arse off defend his position against his constituents who’ve had to crowd-fund a court case you’re well off the mark in some way. That’s like something out a Dickens novel!

    17. sam says:

      It looks like Carmichael had to apply for the grant. I guess he has been told of the gravy.

      “Larger grants – over £7,500
      If you are applying for more than £7,500, you need to be aware of the deadlines for submitting your outline proposal and full application. Applications over £7,500 are considered by our Directors at quarterly meetings (approximately one month after the final application deadline).”

      Guidance is given on making the application.

      “You should begin your application with a short statement that clearly sets out what funding from the Trust would enable you to do, over what timescale, at what cost, and to what end…”

      “It is essential you bear in mind that JRRT is a political funder: we are looking to you to make the political case as to why your campaign is needed and the political opportunities you intend to exploit during your campaign. You need to be clear about the change you want to make e.g. an unjust law, policy or power that you believe needs to be challenged.”
      It is important to provide a clear framework of the activity that you will be doing and the stages of your campaign.

      “You should explain how you intend to utilise key points within the political process and other opportunities in the current political climate to further your campaign. Depending on your proposal, you may wish to elaborate on strategies of engagement with members and supporters, the media, other campaigners, politicians and other key stakeholders.”

      ” With reference to the political context, you should explain why this campaign needs to be fought and why it needs to be fought now. It is important to demonstrate there is an imperative behind your application to show it is both timely and necessary. This is your opportunity to make the case that your campaign is a ‘must do’, rather than a ‘would like to do’ or ‘could do later’.”

      This looks to me like the rules are being breached unless the payment is for a political purpose rather than paying bills. I think the Charity Commission should be told. Anyone agree?

    18. Charity always has been the middle class answer to poverty.

    19. David Sinclair says:

      Seems to me that this nepotistic award to Mr Carmichael does not fall within the Trust’s declared civil liberties or social justice remit. Perhaps the decision should be subject to a legal challenge?

    20. heraldnomore says:

      eh, ‘had Nationalists succeeded…’, remind me once again who it was that took The Liar to court. Nationalists, I think not. Another imbalance to be put right.

    21. HandandShrimp says:

      As a sitting Liberal MP I am astonished the Liberals and many UK Liberal backers (and voters) have not covered his expenses.

      We had no difficulty crowd funding the case against. So much so that Carmichael tried to go after that money to fund himself.

      The Unionists are not a bunch that stick together are they?

    22. Neil Cook says:

      Its a Ltd Company and not a charitable trust!! Hope Carmichael has declared it as income and paid the tax !

      Year end 2014 Willie Rennie apparently got 18k, nearly the same as the English Collective of Prostitutes who got 18600 !! Certainly makes you think about some of these lobbying organisations!

    23. Kenny says:

      What is it with those self-proclaimed “holy wullies” in unionist politics???

      We had Gordon Brown, the “son of the manse”, as he never stopped telling us…. and has there ever been a more psycopathic, low, incompetent, useless, lying cur??

      How much lower can Carmichael and the Lib Dems sink??? And what does it take for the Northern Isles to remember their proud Norse heritage and throw this useless, conniving, stealing lump of lard into the icy seas?


      “Worldwide decline in oil prices shows Scottish economy on verge of collapse, economists say.”

      I think we can all agree that this is a typical SNP-bad, Scotland-bad media headline… or the sort of thing that would headline Misreporting Scotland on the BBC.

      Actually, it was tweeted just now by the North Korean News Service, except that I have made a slight substitution of “capitalist-globalist” for “Scottish”…. But when it comes to state propaganda from a regime which seems to hate its own people it is the “same difference”

      Real tweet:

      DPRK News Service ?@DPRK_News
      Worldwide decline in oil prices shows capitalist-globalist hegemony on verge of collapse, economists say.

    24. Luigi says:

      HandandShrimp says:

      23 March, 2016 at 8:23 pm

      As a sitting Liberal MP I am astonished the Liberals and many UK Liberal backers (and voters) have not covered his expenses.

      We had no difficulty crowd funding the case against. So much so that Carmichael tried to go after that money to fund himself.

      The Unionists are not a bunch that stick together are they?

      Yoonies are very good at spending our money, but don’t ever ask them to put their hands into their own pockets, even for one of their own.

    25. gordoz says:

      Aahhh the establishment in action.

      Right Oh !

    26. heedtracker says:

      Excellent summary by Wos of an appalling act by this crew. Why is this not in The National tomorrow?

      “Had nationalists succeeded in their case against Alistair Carmichael, they would have worsened further the current misrepresentation of Scottish voters’ views in parliament”.

      An astonishing statement by any democratic standards. Its not even clear if the four constituents involved are actually Yesers.

      Its like the last days of the Raj.

    27. Just tuned into Reporting Scotland. Was it mentioned ?
      What was the most important thing to happen in Scotland today?
      A Glen Campbell piece on Better Together, and what was Currency Plan B for a future Referendum. I kid you not.

      There was Jackie Bird afront a big Better Together logo, and AS interviewed during which he observed that the currency question would have to be looked at closely in the event of any future Referendum.

      Cue Chubby Cheeks Davidson, who was cooing that AS had finally admitted that AS’ currency union option was flawed.

      We even had a wee snippet of Osborne just to remind us that ‘naw ye canny keep the pound’ was the message.

      What is happening down at Labour’s Broadcasting House?

      I for one will be voting in the Scottish General Election, to return my MSP to our devolved Scottish Parliament.
      Nothing to do with a future Indy Ref; it’s all about the policies, here and now.

      But the BBC Labour Wing think that this opening piece of 18 month old Better Together rehash nonsense is more important than the tragic murder of a Clydebank teenager, the very positive news regarding Tata Steel (not so you’d know it given the miserable ‘yes but’ tone of their reporter, third in running order) and the last day of Our Parliament and FMQ before the GE, fourth in order, where Wullie was allowed to shine,by falsely announcing that the SG had ‘failed in closing the attainment gap, failed in Nursery Education, and scrapped zillions of college places’.

      Pacific Quay was on a roll. Eleanor Bradford gave us the latest bad news from the NHS, the closure of two trauma centres in Aberdeen, and Inverness(not true), closely followed by the failure of the Scottish Enterprise initiative to attract inward investment.

      Even wee Gordon Strachan got in on the act. We don’t have any great players, ‘we’re shite and we know we are’.

      Then a wee teaser for Glen Campbell’s ‘Leaders Debate ‘ tomorrow night, which clashes of course with the Scotland friendly.
      TYhere was no mention of Liar Carmichael getting a wee backhanders from his Liberal Pals to pay off his lawyers’ bills.

      Pacific Quay just can’t help itself. It is a bought and paid for New Labour propaganda Unit.

      And to think, I pay their wages.

      I’m packing as I speak. I firmly believe the news from the BBC. I must get out of this shit hole of a country TONIGHT.

    28. Bob Mack says:

      Current Misrepresentation?? What does that actually mean? It means the voting Scottish public put into power a party which they believed represented their views.

      What it means is that the views of the Scottish voter do not count for hellish much. According go the Trust they made a decision which caused misrepresentation.

      I’ll be damned. This is a violation surely of the conditions of the Trust? It is a political decision to aid someone fighting a political opponent who was fairly and openly elected. I believe this is quite fraudulent.

    29. schrodingerscat says:

      the judges ordered him to pay for his own defence, calling his testaments to the court “at best disingenuous, at worst evasive and self-serving”.

      I thought the judges called Carmicheal a blatant liar….

    30. Jim O'Rourke says:

      Neil Cook said – ‘end 2014 Willie Rennie apparently got 18k, nearly the same as the English Collective of Prostitutes who got 18600 !! Certainly makes you think about some of these lobbying organisations!’

      Aye it makes you think. On of these two is unsavoury. The other is the English Collective of Prostitutes.

    31. yesindyref2 says:

      Another of Islay’s lesser known exports that doesn’t have geschmack.

    32. Grouse Beater says:

      The Trust’s guardians did what can be easily described as a Nicholas MacPherson.

      Their normal criteria for selection ethics doesn’t apply in this ‘extreme’ case – saving the ‘nation – the union from the destruction of Scottish dissidents.

      And who on that board might be Lib-Dem, or owners of land investment in Scotland?

    33. Macart says:

      Well the trust can’t plead ignorance of a case that saw headline value on both sides of the border. In short, they knew who and what they were paying for. Pretty much one word fits.


    34. Broch Landers says:

      Coming soon:

      The James Connolly Foundation funding the Orange Order

      The Nelson Mandela Trust paying for quilted toilet paper in Anders Breivik’s cell

      The Frida Kahlo Society financing Donald Trump’s war on Mexico

    35. Scott says:

      REV,very sorry O/T but this is very interesting.
      Last night I recorded a program about Saudi on STV horrendous really if you can it’s worth a view and what a bunch of hypocrites this British mob are that we still support them makes your blood boil.
      As for Carmicheal he can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.

    36. Valerie says:

      Not often I’m aghast, but I find this shocking and disgusting.

      Anyone working in public social services, have for many years, regarded research coming from the Foundation as sound, and respected – always worth keeping abreast of.

      Carmichael is a blatant liar, and drain on the public purse, by anyone’s standards, yet somehow qualifies for a hand out?

    37. heedtracker says:

      Their stated goals of correcting “imbalances of political power” and “strengthening the hands of individuals and organisations striving for reform” look like they take a lot oiling. Carmicheal looked extremely hungover at PMQ’s this lunchtime. They had Ian Murray next to JC today too, what a state he’s in. Cant they put a gym membership on MP’s expenses.

    38. caledonia says:

      might not be the same but under the list of directors there is a Danny G Alexander 2007-2010

    39. yesindyref2 says:

      “The study’s author, IFS economist David Phillips, said an independent Scotland could have made decisions that would impact on the size of the deficit.”

      First time I’ve seen that in the Herald, or in IFS. It’s possible both are becoming a little more wary now Indy is so recognisably and widely accepted 50-50. I don’t want the Herald to support Indy, but I do want and expect it to report equably. It does seems to be trying at the moment, don’t know how long that will last.

    40. cearc says:

      ‘And who on that board might be Lib-Dem,’

      4 out of 6 of the directors are declared as.

    41. yesindyref2 says:

      I forgot. Re that Herald article it also says: Mi>”a leading think tank has warned”.

      That’s a big change too, it used to say “independent think tank” or “impartial think tank”, both of which were transparently false.

    42. Rock says:

      “That it still leaves Carmichael £100,000 short of paying for the consequences of his own malicious hubris is the only saving grace of the entire affair.”

      There is no shortage of the likes of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust to keep Carmichael £100,000 short for long.

      But the lowest of the low in this rotten to the core country are the judges who ruled in Carmichael’s favour.

      If and when Scotland becomes independent, one of the first things I would like to see is the sacking of all judges in the country, before new ones are appointed after a thorough public vetting.

      Scotland’s justice system is rotten to the core.

      I believe even Morag Kerr, PHD, agrees with that.

    43. AuldGranny says:

      I am absolutely disgusted.

      Not only have they besmirched the good name of their founder but also, by extension, brought the wider Quaker movement into disrepute.

      If they had one iota, one shred, the tiniest atom of decency then they would remove the good name of Joseph Rowntree from their organisation’s title.

    44. Scott Borthwick says:

      James Anderson. I like your thinking. Maybe you should send them to Alistair himself?

      Auld Rock. Quite correct.

    45. caledonia says:

      re my post above that should read FORMER directors
      Danny G Alexander 2007-2010

    46. MorvenM says:

      I note that the JRRT spokesperson not only claims that our SNP MPs are misrepresenting the Scottish electorate, but repeats the lie that the Orkney constituents’ case was “vexatious”, when the Election Court itself ruled it was not.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, a social research charity and another regular Lib Dem party donor, gave Mr Alexander a £3,750 donation which was lodged on December 5.

      (P&J 16 Dec 14)

      Yes, Danny Alexander resigned as Director on 28/5/10, appointed on 13 April 2007.

    48. Rock says:


      “However, the National really ought to headline it.”


      “Excellent summary by Wos of an appalling act by this crew. Why is this not in The National tomorrow?”

      Dave McEwan Hill, could you please reply?

    49. yesindyref2 says:

      That answer to this is quite easy. The JR Reform Trust has given grants to the Greens, Lab and Cons apparently, so it should simply have announced that it would also have given a grant to the Orkney 4, in the interest of democracy.

      I sugest they now give a donation to the foodbanks.

    50. chic says:

      Do you suppose these Rowntree peeps will mibbe pony up for a humungous policing bill the LibDems still have outstanding?

    51. yesindyref2 says:

      Why don’t you start a forum called “Ask Dave McEwan Hill”?

    52. Thomas Valentine says:

      Surely this is politically motivated embezzlement by the trustees. Where are the police fruad squad?

    53. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Rock Morag Kerr isent on this thread & if she were she is quite capable in making her own comments re Scottish Justice system.

    54. G H Graham says:

      FFS, the memo wasn’t leaked because you can’t leak what was a fabricated documented.

      Meanwhile, the evidence of the Trust’s generosity is staring us right in the face: “We do not make grants for projects that could be funded from charitable sources.”

      Having peeked at proven liar Carmichael’s fundraiser, we already knew that.


    55. ClanDonald says:

      Social justice, striving for reform, strengthening democracy…yadda yadda yadda…

      Unless you’re Scottish and want to govern yourself. In which case shut up, do as you’re told and listen to your masters, we know what’s best for you.

    56. Luigi says:

      Perhaps a quick leaflet campaign, restricted to Orkney and Shetland, providing the info that the corporate media refuses to disclose about this sorry affair, would be timely. People who are considering to vote LibDem really ought to know the kind of people they are voting for.

      I’m sure finding volunteers to deliver it to all households in Orkney and Shetland, would not be a problem. 🙂

    57. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun, another very creepy Britnat toryboy trust puts the UKOK boot in again, and again etc This shower of lying hypocrite Britnat’s now want their Scotland region to shut up about independence, now! Scottish democracy is certainly stretching a tory dominated English establishment.

      Independence is dead, stop voting SNP, its bad for everyone in Britain.

      So from


      “There may be no evidence to suggest that the SNP’s ascendancy is under serious threat in May. Indeed Labour and the Tories are battling each other for second place.

      Yet unless the independence issue is somehow reignited in ways that currently seem unlikely, these arguments about actual money and real spending choices are all to the good.

      They can only help to strengthen the return of a Scottish political conversation that is centred as much on material choices in an interconnected world as on identity. That’s a shift that would benefit everyone in Britain.”

      Lovely bunch, our noble democrat chums in the south of Britain:D

    58. Chitterinlicht says:


      He lied.

      For f*cks sake.


      Colours my view if JRF which is probably unfair.


    59. Clapper57 says:

      Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust…..what a bunch of fruit pastilles.

    60. louis.b.argyll says:

      As soon as the memo was fabricated there was a fraudulent act..

      ..the leaking of the new memo was a fraudulent act..

      ..the denial of involvement was a fraudulent act..

      ..the subsequent enforcement of pre-war
      UK laws was a democratically corrupt act..

      The truth will out and the liars will fall..not on their swords, but upon deaf ears, as humanity progresses in spite of them.

    61. MJack says:

      Don’t the Lib Dems still owe the Scottish Police for an outstanding bill?

    62. findlay farquaharson says:

      Bunch of jobbies

    63. CmonIndy says:

      O/T I have just watched the first of three episodes of “Scotland: the Promised Land” narrated by Ken Stott. You have to watch this to see the parallels of what is happening now with what happened in the 1910s and 1920s. My knowledge of the history has been badly lacking.

      I don’t know where this series is going in the other episodes, but I was amazed that this was a BBC2 effort. Dare we hope that this will be a relatively pro-Nationalist series and timed significantly as the parties start the campaigns?

    64. FiferJP says:

      You can easily argue that the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust has absolutely nothing to do with Joseph Rowntree or his other trusts seeing as it was set up in 1939, fourteen years after Rowntree died.

    65. Clootie says:

      …jaw still on the ground. However it is a worthwhile look under the rock of LibDem life, a glance, as they scurry away from the light.

      Orkney and Shetland voters should now be aware of the principles embraced by the LibDems that neither the truth nor openness matter.

    66. Iain More says:

      That will be me smoking more then because it will be the last sweetie of any description I buy from them.

    67. Quentin Quale says:

      Of course if the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust didn’t want emails asking for clarification on the Carmichael debacle, they wouldn’t offer a contact adress. Just saying.

    68. Clootie says:

      ComnIndy says 10:08

      I agree – an excellent programme and very balanced.

    69. schrodingerscat says:

      G H Graham says:
      Having peeked at proven liar Carmichael’s….

      um, i think you mean, proven blatant liar Carmicheal…

      sorry for being such a sticler for grammer and speling…ken 🙂

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      Haven’t seen the programmes, but BBC2 often has what amount to anti-establishment programs. It’s as if the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing – and doesn’t want to.

    71. Dr Jim says:

      All this fuss still over currency you’d think by now folk would have cottoned on it doesn’t matter what you use as long as it’s legal, American dollars are used all over the world by loads of people nobody turns money down

      I don’t care if we use the dead pickled eyes of Yoonionists as long as it counts in fact I’d not mind that at all as long as they were sanitized

      Good documentary on State Broadcaster 2 there on Scotlands history and the weird thing is there was truth in it
      and quite a lot about the fabrication of documents and letters by the Yoons of the time aided by the media (Mail and Express) to discredit their enemies (that would be us)

      Times may change Yoon tactics remain the same 100 years on

    72. davidb says:

      3 things

      The JRCTL website says its a registered charity. Any legal experts out there? Is their award possibly illegal? Can a complaint be made to the Charity Commissioners?

      There appear to be about 35000 registered voters in Orkney & Shetland. So about 20k fliers would get every household one. That is likely to cost around £700 to print on decent quality card. Your problem would be distribution. Lots of people are glad to assume someone else will deliver them. Crowdfunding that amount would not be hard.

      Please everyone. The election campaign is now in full swing. Branches of political parties need volunteers. Someone else is not doing it. You are needed. One hour will deliver about 70 fliers for the party of your choice. Sometimes more or less depending on the topography. You are needed. We have over 2 million homes to target. Please don’t be an armchair campaigner. Any time you can spare any evening or afternoon is welcome. Please keep up the fight for home rule.

    73. Clapper57 says:

      Just found this online re the Trust ( or not trust ) :

      “The trust, which was named after its founder, the York chocolate businessman and philanthropist, has several prominent Liberal Democrats on its board. It said it gave the cash to Carmichael in order to take a stand against such “vexatious and highly political claims” and “to uphold existing case law about the circumstances in which a legitimately elected MP can be unseated”.

      Yoon rationale once again trying to justify what is unjustifiable and defend what is indefensible …..look in the mirror yoons and see the reflected hypocrites that you truly all are.

      Obviously the Trust are putting their spin on what they see as a political moral injustice in defending one who we know is clearly politically and personally immoral. Wee Willie can stick his 1p rise in tax right up Alistair Carmichael’s lying sh*t hole….what’s your opinion on this donation wee weasel Rennie ? (Man of many opinions but none of any importance ).

    74. Still Positive. says:

      CmonIndy @ 10.08 and Clootie @ 10.17

      Set the tape for that and will watch tomorrow.

      Started reading Tom Devine’s book ‘Independence or Union: Scotland’s Past and Scotland’s Future.’ last night and the parallels leading up to the union mirror what has been happening especially since 2007/11.

      SNP x 2 and EU In.

    75. Edward says:

      Well, a simple check and find a possible reason why the liar has been given a ‘grant’

      Chairman of the Rowntree Reform Trust is Sir Nick Harvey former LIB DEM MP
      Also another director Baroness Sarah Virginia Brinton is a LIB DEM peer
      Yet another director Mandy Cormack, was the founder chair of the Liberal Party’s campaign for electoral reform. She was actively worked on the Liberal Democrats regional media network in the run up to the 1992 General Election.
      Another director Alison Goldsworthy is also another Lib Dem activist (featured in the Lord Rennard scandal)

      So that’s 4 directors out of 6 that are LIBERAL DEMOCRAT activist or former politicians

      That’s the smoking gun!

    76. schrodingerscat says:

      findlay farquaharson says:
      23 March, 2016 at 10:07 pm
      Bunch of jobbies

      devastating critique of the parlous state of the post sept14 apocalyptic caledonian neo conservative cringe, typified by the Carmichealean ethical and moral vacuum, unreported by the rancid festering confectious ukok organ squealers.

      defo stealin’ it findlay

    77. Sinky says:

      Tompkins Baillie amd Cole Hamilton on STV telling the jocks to mind their place and a poor advert for quality of forthcoming election debates

    78. carjamtic says:

      Yoon parasite clinging on to host,to control it and suck it dry.


    79. schrodingerscat says:

      the York chocolate businessman and philanthropist

      inventor of the “not for girls” “Yorkie” but fine and dandy for butch type greed basturd blatant liars…..

    80. MI5 Troll says:

      Well done Stuart, a great angry post and it reminds us what a shit Carmichael is. And to think you use to vote for these dicks. I await tomorrows reveal.(wee black boo!)

    81. schrodingerscat says:

      Iain More says:
      23 March, 2016 at 10:12 pm
      That will be me smoking more then because it will be the last sweetie of any description I buy from them.

      snap, probably a small drop in the ocean but the negative press and small drop in revenue and brand reputation might cost them more than 38k in the long run.

    82. ArtyHetty says:

      The trust still very much uses J. Rowntree in their blurb in the ‘about us’ on the website.

      Very angry re this, something seems very dodgy about it all. Unless Carmichael fulfilled ALL of the criteria, it would surely be investigated as to why he was awarded such a grant. The arrogance of the guy in even applying for the grant takes the biscuit, it really does.

    83. Gary45% says:

      As I have said before, the Orkney Isles are still voting for Joe Grimond.
      Island source tells me this time they will vote for the Tories as a protest vote against the SNP, as they are blamed for Carbuncle being caught out being a lying, deceiving parasitic arsehole,(who has done Fu*k all for the residents, but they still vote Lib Dum???) apart from Wee Wullie as no one knows what “it” is.
      Just watched the Burd on reporting shortbread, grimaces all round, her coupon was classic SNP baaad.
      FMQs as usual SNP 100%, the rest an embarrassment.

    84. Sandy says:

      Has Carmichael paid his court fees or has he made a deal, paying £5 per week? Or is he like his Scottish counterparts, reneiging on their police bill?

    85. Edward says:

      So liar Carmichael got money from a Lib Dem front Trust
      which part of its rules is that it doesn’t give funds for legal fees
      Can this not be reported to some watchdog?

    86. heedtracker says:

      Another display of UKOK propaganda delights, rancid hypocrite of The Guardian gets job at BBC Newsnight, probably hired by ex The Guardian editor Ian Katz, now editor of News Night. The sheer jobs for the toryboys stench gets very wiffy but its probably just a revolving door of upper class private school/Oxbridge genius/twits. Do any of these gimps actual make a profit though.

      Nicholas Watt ?@nicholaswatt 4 hrs4 hours ago
      Thanks to all my friends + colleagues for generous tweets about @BBCNewsnight. Broadcasting career off to a great start – have lost my voice

    87. Chic McGregor says:

      Joe Grimond was a strong Scottish Home Rule advocate and anti the UK’s nuclear weapons.

      If his career were current I seriously think he may have been SNP which as a fringe party in his day was not a career option.

    88. Chic McGregor says:

      Does that make Carmichael, ironically, a Smartie Pants?

    89. J R Tomlin says:

      From the JRRT application page:

      We do not fund the following:-

      * Unsolicited applications from registered charities.*
      * Unsolicited applications for work which may be funded from charitable sources.
      * Campaigns outside the UK.
      * Local campaigns without national impact.
      * General appeals.
      * Academic research.
      * Work which we believe should be funded from statutory sources, or which has been in the recent past.
      * Legal fees.”

      Hmmm… Or ‘we only fund legal fees when they are owed by our lying politician friends’.

    90. sassenach says:

      Carmichael grant story has made the National, seems the Quaker community may not be too happy.

    91. Kevin Evans says:

      Hey wingers,

      I supported the crowd fund for the Orkney 4 and I was completely against Carmichael and his awful lies and behaviour but in all seriousness today at PM questions or Scottish questions I can’t remember he looked very very very ill and unwell.

      Mr Carmichael I ask you to do the right thing for your own sake and health.

      Make a statement admitting completely your lies and twisted political motives and resign. Your health is in a bad way.

    92. Ken500 says:

      Joseph Rowntree has just tarnished it’s image. Quakers. LibDem leader. These funds are not for bailing out greedy liars. Charitable status Rules being broken?

    93. bjsalba says:

      Take a look at the Wiki page on the four Rowntree Trusts

      This is what it says on the JRRT.

      Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust (until 1990, named the Joseph Rowntree Social Service Trust), which is a political body and promotes democratic reform and social justice within the UK. Unlike the other three, it is not a charity, though it endowed the JRSST Charitable Trust.

    94. The Man in the Jar says:

      So the British establishment close ranks to protect their own again!

      This is why I so desperately want independence. I care not whether I`m a couple of hundred quid worse or better off. I want to get as far away as possible from the rancid stench of the putrid British establishment and all its lackies.

      I read this yesterday and went to bed angry. Im even more angry this morning. The galling thing is that there is little that we can do about it.

      A few quid to the SNP Orkney crowdfunder is in order.

    95. Fred says:

      Thanks to Rock the Carmichael expose’ appears in today’s National, influence ur whit?( probably whit!)

      Dave MacEwan Hill needs to come to this forum & explain himself.

    96. In my view the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust has damaged its reputation by giving a donation to d Carmichael’s legal costs.
      Of course this will not concern the four Libdems who are directors.

    97. Nana says:

      Check out the comment by Alastair McIntosh on the buzzfeed article.

    98. Muscleguy says:


      Carmichael’s bill will be in at least two parts.

      1. His legal fees to his team of lawyers.

      2. His share of the costs of the case to the crown.

      1. is a matter of agreement with his legal firm over payment terms. 2. Will likely need paying soonest, presumably what this grant is intended to cover.

    99. Fred says:

      Thanks for that Nana, they’re a bit late complaining about the electoral system, it’s been abused by the LibDem’s for yonks.

      Crowdfunder to keep the Robert Bruce seal matrix here in Scotland, Scots Wha Hae can contribute here,

    100. Brewsed says:

      Presumably, it is entirely coincidental that a Helen Carmichael is a trustee of the Trust

    101. Foonurt says:

      Roontreez/Currmichull – fuckin atrocious. Lowurr thin, ah wurm’s belly.

      Haw Rock, thoan wiz guid ah ye, sennin yoan article tae ‘The National’.

      Robert The Bruce Seal fund – ah hope thae tak poastal- oardurrs, urr broon invullups.

    102. East Neuker says:

      No sign that I can find of the Carmichael / JRRT £34,000 grant story on the BBC news website. Funny that. (Faints with mock surprise).

      You couldn’t make it up. Did they really think no one would notice? Or do they just not care?

      Today of all days it just emphasises the sadness of a NO vote. I’m off to put on my good jacket, put my YES badge in the buttonhole and stride out to think about next time.

    103. Brewsed says: include “work which has already been undertaken”. Hmmm… Me thinks I smell a fish. Enquiries to enquiries [at] jrct [dot] org [dot] uk

    104. macnakamura says:

      Former Director 2007-2010 ………. Danny G Alexander.

      Different pigs …… same troughs.

    105. annie says:

      I note on the website under each award is a link to the group/campaign to which the award is made however not in Alistair Carmichael’s case. Is this an indication that it is not to a specific campaign but indeed to pay his legal fees?

    106. Jack Murphy says:

      East Neuker said at 11:20 am:-
      “No sign that I can find of the Carmichael / JRRT £34,000 grant story on the BBC news website. Funny that.”

      Here’s a link where all will be revealed tonight by the creme de la creme of auto-cue journalists in the BBC North British Branch.
      They know that we know.

      Just before the fitba I’d guess—then again probably not.

    107. Clapper57 says:

      East Neuker says:
      24 March, 2016 at 11:20 am

      “No sign that I can find of the Carmichael / JRRT £34,000 grant story on the BBC news website. Funny that. (Faints with mock surprise)”.

      Exactly . And this is what I have referred to in previous posts , it is the OMISSION of information which is significant .

      The media is not fit for purpose when it constantly chooses to be selective in what it reports dependent on who it damages politically. We here are all aware of the political allegiance of newspapers and their ability to spin topical political events to the advantage of their chosen political party, and in turn to the disadvantage of political parties they seek to undermine.

      It is imperative that sites such as Wings etc is supported and sustained and that we should all communicate the existence of such sites to those who are still reliant on MSM for news.

      There is no doubt at all had the Carmichael case been an SNP MP that a constant onslaught and subsequent updates, including this donation from Joseph Rowntree, would have been reported and the Lib Dems would have been extremely vocal in their condemnation.

      However the fact that we have achieved so much success in electing an SNP Scottish government and a majority of SNP MP’s is testimony to the corrupt media being unsuccessful in their quest to destroy the independence movement.

      Just think what we could do and what we could be if we did not have the burden of media yoon propaganda, well for one thing we might be independent today.

    108. Clapper57 says:

      Let’s see if Labour MP Marie Rimmer’s court case on April 29th this year is given a high profile in MSM and whether reported or buried prior to Scottish elections.

    109. I suspect Labour MP Marie Rimmer’s court case will not be given the same high level of exposure in the media which would have been that case if it had been an SNP politician.

    110. Gary45% says:

      Thanks for encouraging me to part with 60p, as I imagined a half story “missing the details” in the National, could have been soooo much more factual along with the other half story on the same page.
      Wings Over Scotland “The Only source of factual reporting”

      Purchased 2 Nationals this year, I will keep my pennies for Stu in future.

    111. Roland Smith says:

      Just popped £20 into Donnas appeal to assist in hopefully removing the Fib Dems from Orkney. Up to £1700 already care of Wings supporters, only £300 to go.

    112. Fred says:

      @ Gary45%, bang goes £1.20.

    113. Davo says:

      annie says:
      I note on the website under each award is a link to the group/campaign to which the award is made however not in Alistair Carmichael’s case. Is this an indication that it is not to a specific campaign but indeed to pay his legal fees?

      Carmichael’s house of commons register of interests has the purpose of this grant as “to help meet my legal costs”, unless he is lying of course.

    114. bugsbunny says:

      Just been reading that cunt Tom Gallagher’s twitter. He’s in Saxony, and says Scotland is shite by comparison. He say’s Saxony, the home of Pegida is more welcoming than Scotland, implying were a bunch of racists and National Socialists, says we are bigoted tattooed bearded hillbillies and implies were a nation of lazy feckless bastards. Then complains because two students approached him asking for his resignation> Fucking clown


    115. Robert Peffers says:

      It has long passed the time for all decent minded people, from any of the British countries or kingdoms, to get out of the corrupt, ” The Government of Her Majesty’s United Kingdom”,. Not only is it time to divorce the present Conservative manifestation of that Establishment but a clean break from the entire, “Westminster Establishment”, itself.

      It’s proud claims of democracy have always been, at best, doubtful and at worst downright lies. It has long been apparent, to all reasonable people, that it is not any one political party that is so corrupt, deceitful and self serving but it is the very basic essence of, “The Establishment”, itself that is. from its very roots, so wrong in every way.

      It has always, ever since Roman times, been a haven for the Germanic tribes of immigrants who came to exploit the aboriginal Britons. Never forget those Hereditary Peers, some of whom still sit in the unelected House of Lords today, are the descendants of that immigrant elite who came to Britain to exploit the real, aboriginal, Britons.

      We still have the remnants of their Feudal System, with the Royals at its head, still handing out honours to whomever they please and the Westminster political elites see themselves as our appointed masters and we their humble serfs.

      You may notice that this, “Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust Ltd.” is no more than another manifestation of the Westminster Establishment. Alert Readers will notice it is a Public Limited Company, (PLC), and such companies are defined as:-

      “a company in which the shareholders cannot be assessed for debts of the company beyond the sum they still have invested in the company”. That is they have investors as shareholders in the company.

      I’ve never been a republican and really had no strong feelings, either for or against, the Royals but this crass miscarriage of common decency that may be construed as racist discrimination against Scots and Scotland has changed my views.

      As Burns once wrote, “It’s commin yet fir aa that”.

    116. Forrest says:

      I’ve not read all the comments, but is this potentially a breach of Trust Law, acting directly against the Trust’s Rules?

    117. Clapper57 says:

      On the 2nd March 2007 it was reported by The Telegraph newspaper that “The Liberal Democrats are being bankrolled by the 100-year-old Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust which pledged to give nearly £2 million to the party last summer.

      The unprecedented donation was approved at a meeting of its directors in July and confirmed at a separate board meeting last October.

      It raised eyebrows because the figure is four times more than the trust’s grant total to other bodies that year.

      The donation would seem to run counter to one the trust’s stated aims, that it “is not committed to the policies of any one political party”.

      Ok really ?….I assume the same newspaper is now challenging the donation they have now made to Carmichael by this ‘independent political Trust’ (not) or perhaps the current political landscape which includes a dominant SNP presence may be counter productive to their political bias and this news is now classified as another worthy ‘OMISSION’.

    118. Neil says:

      The tel number of the JRRT is 01904 625744 and email address is info [at] jrrt [dot] org [dot] uk
      Have spoken with them and with The JR Foundation

    119. orri says:

      Interestingly enough their description of what the grant was for seems to be a circumlocation for “legal fees” given there’s been no change to the law going through parliament that might be lobied against.

    120. Bruce says:

      I see your screen shot shows JRRT awarding 34k to AC . When I clicked through from the tab on their website it showed a £50k award for 2016. ?

    121. bugsbunny says:

      I live in a deprived area, because of Rowntree’s etc have diabetes and fillings/missing teeth. If I lie to them and say I’m a Liberal Democrat who lives in a fantasy world and spread lies, do you think they will give me £34,000? Aye, Right.


      I’m eating a packet of fruit pastilles right now. Prefer gums myself. Switched from sweets to fruit/vegetables 2 years ago. Been told an orange, an apple and two carrots a day are bad for my diabetes by the Doctor, so I thought, fuck it, back to the sweeties again.

    122. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I have, recently, discovered the joy of sucking on a couple of Tesco’s “Fruit Drops” – two bags for £1.50.

      And the thing is, the packing of the bags appears to be a random process; sometimes there are 60% blackcurrant flavour in the bag, other bags have a more varied selection of flavours.

      The orange and green ones are particularly tasty, although the starwberry flavour rates highly.

    123. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Ooh – forgot!

      The yellow ones are tasty as well but I can’t decide which flavour they claim to be.

    124. fluffnik says:

      Could it be that they are in breach of their articles of incorporation, deed of trust or some such, which might render the directors liable for the cost of in appropriate grants?

      That might be worth crowdfunding…

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